Green, not yellow. And *** this.


Conservative staffers snare an unsuspecting (yeah) pedestrian. (Photo ripped from Stephen Taylor’s blog.)

Distributed to the five newspapers which cover Halton, but embargoed until after the Green Shift launch. The asterisks denote information – words, phrases or sentences – that will be released after the plan is made public. — Garth

One day last week, every street corner around Parliament Hill sprouted pairs of people in garish yellow T-shirts. They stuffed yellow cards into the hands of passing pedestrians and offered them up at car windows. On them was a sad-looking picture of the federal Liberal leader, and the words, “Dion’s tax on everything.”

Eventually it was revealed these were staffers for Conservative MPs, which means they were campaigning while being on the public payroll. So much for ethics.

But ripping off taxpayers isn’t the point of this tale. Instead, it’s about an epic battle going on in Ottawa which will end up affecting all of us.

On one side are the ruling Harper Conservatives, who, according to environmental experts, have done diddly about climate change in two-and-a-half years of government. The Alberta oil sands still create more greenhouses gases than any other industrial complex in North America, while homeowners have no federal incentives to become energy-efficient and our highways are clogged with gas-sucking SUVs. The weak Tory plan will have no real effect for another decade.

At the same time, gas and energy prices are going nuts, the economy is slowing fast and we’ve shed more than 300,000 manufacturing jobs in a year. This is adding up to far too much financial stress for Canadian families.

On the other side is the Liberal Green Shift plan, launched *** – and the reason all those yellow-shirted staffers were dispatched to the streets. The Liberal plan would immediately **** the oil sands, and every other industry emitting gunk into the air. The money raised by this so-called carbon tax would be used to **** for consumers – families and workers. That means as costs gradually change for energy (**** for a BBQ fill-up, and about **** to heat a house with natural gas – after four years), personal income taxes would ****.

The plan would ****, as well as bring in **** for families with kids, for seniors, low-income folks and those who have to use a lot of energy, like farmers and northern dwellers. We figure, for example, a family with two kids, making $60,000 will get about **** in tax savings and ****. A family of four with an income of just $20,000, will get ****.

So, the Conservatives are not stopping pollution, not cutting income taxes and trying to shred Dion. The Liberals would hit polluters immediately, cut **** from taxes and ensure nobody’s worse off for doing the right thing.

And there’s more. The Liberals want to encourage a big investment in green collar jobs through ****, more investment in **** and tax breaks for ****. And there’ll be new programs to help homeowners ****, more money for ****, enhanced **** in cars, and much more.

Finally, what about gas? No increase in gas taxes. Period. Over **** years, though, the pollution tax ****, but by then every taxpayer in the country will have more than enough tax savings to cover that. More importantly, we all hope cars will be less thirsty and maybe even running on electricity or compressed air.

This Green Shift is not law yet. It’s a big idea, but will start to happen if Stephane Dion becomes prime minister. And because the guy is a different kind of politician, he’s detailed the whole thing now so we can debate it and understand it. No yellow shirts. No slogans. No lies. Just a national discussion. How weird is that?

BTW, it’s all here: www.***.ca.

Garth Turner is Halton’s ***. Reach him directly at [email protected]

– 30 –

194 comments ↓

#1 Bonie L on 06.14.08 at 8:57 pm

Interesting that the Harpos chose yellow the color of cowardice to be the foundation of their negative advertising.

Great post Garth. Harper says Dion is not a leader then why is he so darned scared of him? All the negative toilet papter advertising paid for by the taxpayers shows his fear. Now all the
negativity on Dion’s green plan when they don’t even know what it is shows how deeply their fear runs.

Maybe their fear is a harginger of things to come as Dion leads his party to at least a minority government and a great possibility of a majority.

#2 John Duddy. on 06.14.08 at 9:31 pm

Ever wonder why fuel costs so much?
Check this out.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en

#3 Bonie L on 06.14.08 at 9:48 pm

It seems to me after watching Harper in action for a couple of years, we now know that with all that negative “Dion is not a leader” advertising, Harper was just projecting his “shadow self” which has proven that he is the one who is not a leader.

#4 sheila on 06.14.08 at 9:51 pm

Bonie L, to the contrary, sometimes “yellow” means “golden.”

I have come to the conclusion that this present minority government may well turn into one of the most successful, if not THE most successful minority government in Canadian history.

If it were doing 1/4 as bad as this blog suggests, the Liberals would have toppled this government long ago, like a year and a half ago. They would have acted long ago if they were half-way serious.

We hear Jack Layton being poor mouthed here, but he has been honestly trying to topple this government, but with no co-operation from Stephane Dion. I can respect the fact that Jack Layton puts actions to words, but not so with Dion.

How are we to believe that Dion is serious in his opposition to this minority government when he and Garth keep propping it up time after time after time by simply sitting on their hands?

Their actions that say we are not ready for an election yet tell us that the situation is not that serious that the government should be toppled at this time, and that they are hoping that the government will yet make some mistakes that will turn the tide of public opinion.

In the meantime, it is going to take something more than the carbon tax to turn the tide.

The fact tht the Liberals will not turf this government is proof positive that deep down they don’t think it is doing that badly that it needs to be turfed NOW! That sentiment is pure, unadulterated rhetoric only, with absolutely no substance to it.

#5 Gord G. on 06.14.08 at 10:18 pm

How will Dion’s Carbon Tax help stop this;

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/13/business/emit.php

China has now clearly overtaken the United States as the world’s leading emitter of climate-warming gases, a new study has found. The increasing emissions from China – up 8 percent in the past year – accounted for two-thirds of the growth in global greenhouse gas emissions in 2007, the study found.

Gord.

#6 Men With Hats on 06.14.08 at 10:24 pm

My concerns have been met .

#7 I believe in Canada on 06.14.08 at 10:44 pm

Garth, I actually think MP staffers campaigning while on the taxpayers’ dime is a very big deal. These CONS are breaking way too many rules in their rush to trample democracy. It’s time for some of that accountability Harper talked about. And we voters are just waiting to dole it out.

Bring on the election!

#8 Brian Wilson on 06.14.08 at 10:48 pm

Oh now I get it. I will be voting Liberal now that you have explained it so clearly. I can’t believe I didn’t understand what you have been talking about all along. It makes perfect sense now. Dion is the smartest politician I know. Garth we are so lucky to have you out front explaining this in laymans terms. I cannot wait to get one of these new green collar jobs and not pay any income tax and not pay any more for gasoline and save the polar bears and breath fresh air and on and on and on. Oh I forgot to ask one question: “How fucking stupid do you think the electorate are”? (That question does not apply to your cheerleaders on this blog). Anyone that thinks we are in trouble now wait until these guys try and implement this shit if they are ever elected. I wish you guys that applaud this Liberal bunch would wake up and realize how dangerous they can really be. Are Inspector Clousseau and Queen Elizabeth May dating now?

#9 Paully on 06.14.08 at 11:15 pm

Sadly, the GST was supposed to be “revenue neutral” but it was not. The Liberals pledged to get rid of it, but they clearly liked the extra revenue too much. It is impossible to believe that a new Liberal tax on anything would not result in a net tax increase.

Maybe tax freedom day could be moved to October under the new Liberal plan?

#10 Wayne on 06.14.08 at 11:44 pm

Check this out.
BY JOHN DUDDY

What is your point? Take this guy’s word? I wouldn’t waste an hour listening to him but my assessment is, he’s a nutjob.
Let’s say there is 200 years worth of oil (for America mind you) in Alaska.
Are your suggesting that means our problems are over? If gas were to go back to $1.50/gallon we would be doomed, literally.
This guy is just trying to sell his book. There is always an audience for conspiracy theorists.
When this goof manages to get himself on Bill Moyers or NPR’s All Things Considered or any program aimed at people with a measurable IQ please let us know.

#11 Harry S on 06.14.08 at 11:58 pm

So, Garth …. when does Dion launch the “Green Shift” plan? The speculation is this coming Wednesday, and there will be a grand presentation with green shirts and scarves too.

“Green Shift” plan sounds like a good motto … but in Freudian imagery it may be confused with “Green Shi(f)t” .. if you catch my drift …!!!

Nevertheless, I look forward to hearing from Dion and those remaining Dream Team devotees who will eagerly tout the Green Shift tide coming from Ottawa and engulfing all of Canada … whooopeee..!!!

#12 Molly on 06.15.08 at 12:09 am

By John Duddy. on 06.14.08 9:31 pm
The chaplain licks his lips like a low lying man. Maybe water is the shortage.

Anyway, so be it for what the Liberals have chosen to do. The Liberal *machine* will never allow Dion to be PM, he’s too ethical. Your a good soldier Garth. The opposition is no opposition plain and simple. Meantime, as usual the dippers are ahead of the men in suits and best laid plans with this brave petition.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/canada911truth/

Sign it, you know you want to.

#13 Jennifer Smith on 06.15.08 at 12:38 am

Geez, and here I thought you were posting about “Young People F***ing” opening this weekend.

#14 EhBC on 06.15.08 at 12:57 am

GST, Carbon Tax, and Income Tax

This is a letter I wrote some months ago to my Tory MP in response to a typical flyer/questionnaire they sent out.

Tory Empee
House of Commons
Parliament Buildings
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0A6

Dear Tory,

Enclosed is the survey you sent me regarding the GST reduction your government has implemented. I have specified that I prefer cutting the GST to 5% to “spending the money on other things”, but I feel making a simple choice is not adequate, so I will elaborate. My preference is very strong, and I do hope you will be able to manage further reductions in the future.

I am the sole proprietor of a small business, selling products to the general public. Some product I manufacture myself, some I purchase from suppliers and repackage for retail. I have the typical business expenses such as utilities, rent, legal and other professional services, all of which include GST. However, atypically, my entire product line is exempt from GST. So, unlike most businesses, I have no GST collections to offset what I pay, and a cut to the GST goes straight to my bottom line and increases my profit commensurately. And I may be overoptimistic, but I don’t anticipate any competitive pressure on my pricing, so I expect my enhanced profits will be sustained.

Also, the successful conduct of my business does require some exceptional personal expense for reasons of public relations and “image”. I generally spend much more for quality on such things as vehicles, clothing, jewelry, and entertainment than my economic cohort. A reduction to taxes on those items therefore translates directly into an equivalent increase in my income.

On the personal side, I realize that, given a choice, any rational individual at my income level or even one much lower would prefer an income tax cut to a GST cut of the same tax expenditure. However, here again my circumstances are not typical. I do not file tax returns and I don’t pay any income tax, so unlike the GST cut, an income tax reduction would provide me with no benefit whatsoever. My business is selling illegal drugs recreational chemical substances such as pot, cocaine, crystal meth and crack. Since the RCMP is actively trying to curtail my business, I simply can’t afford to risk having them obtain incriminating evidence from any source that might be inclined to co-operate with them, and suspicious soul that I am I fear Canada Revenue Agency may well be such a source.

In brief, I am well aware that the GST reduction preferentially benefits individuals like me. Just wanted to let you know I appreciate it.

Regards,

Anne Onymous

I hope the point is obvious: drug dealers and other criminals typically do not pay income tax. They do, however, spend money and therefore they pay GST and other sales taxes. It follows that shifting the tax burden from GST to income tax benefits the criminals at the expense of the honest taxpayers. The criminals’ total tax load goes down, therefore the increase in income taxes paid by those who do pay income tax must exceed the savings they realize from the GST cut. Conversely, a shift of the tax burden from income tax to GST would trigger a net benefit to those of us paying income tax. If the 2% cut in GST were reversed and income tax collections reduced by the amount of the increased collections, the criminals would pay more of the total tax burden and the readers of this blog, being honest, upstanding, tax payers that we are, would see our total tax burden go down by a corresponding amount. Our decrease in income tax would exceed our increase in GST expense.

Unhappily the amounts involved are not trivial. Authorities estimate that the marijuana crop in BC now has a higher dollar value than the forest products, which puts it at $20billion plus annually. If even half of that ends up being spent on taxable items we’re talking $500million in annual GST collections. Any guesstimate how much we’re looking at if we extend it to all of Canada and all criminal activity?

A truly neutral carbon tax would have exactly the same impact. The criminals who currently pay no income tax will see their total tax burden go up insofar as they spend money on carbon taxable items, so the reduction in income tax paid by the rest of us will exceed the carbon taxes we pay by the same amount. In short, honest taxpayers will save money because of the carbon tax. Those who oppose the carbon taxes are on the side of the criminals.

Before anyone jumps all over me I better state that I realize not paying income tax doesn’t necessarily imply someone’s a criminal. They may simply have a very low income. If they are prudent they still file tax returns to qualify for the refundable GST credit, and it would be trivial to extend this to compensate them to some degree (100% if desired) for the carbon tax burden.

And finally a mea culpa. When the Tories first proposed the GST cut I was in favour of it and said so. I find myself obliged to change my position. I did not figure out the logic I’ve presented here, but intellectual integrity compels me to accept it.

Regards,

EhBC

#15 Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 at 1:04 am

Hi John Duddy,

If the guy on your link is actually credable at all, then why are we in need of the tar sands???

Have you see this movie yet?

‘A Crude Awakening: The Oil Crash’ 2007
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/

Have you seen this,

The Most IMPORTANT Video You’ll Ever See (part 3 of 8) 09:28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY

The hole show is called,

‘Arithmatic, population, and Energy’
(part 1 of 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=related

You should read this artical,

‘Powering the Future: Does the Fuel Gage Read Empty?’
(click to open Document, at link below)
http://asmcommunity.asminternational.org/portal/site/www/AsmStore/ProductDetails/?vgnextoid=f148daacee988110VgnVCM100000701e010aRCRD

If the tar sand keeps expanding as planed, Canada will be all out of are Natural gas by 2028! How old are you?

Last year the world used 1 cubic mile of oil for the first time! this year more. Do you think it will last for ever?
At pressent rate, the world will be all out of oil by 2050-2060.

Were do you get your energy from now?
Were does your food come from, is oil used?
Were do you get drinking water now, is oil used to pump it?
How do you heat and cool your home, is oil and gas used?
Were is the energy coming from to light your lights, even at night and on windless days?

Are you really well informed?
Are you a critical thinker?
Do you care about yours and your familys
future?

Remeber: “Belief in myth avoids the discomfort of thought.”

No one is coming to save us from ourselves.

Why should we all try and stop man made global climate change in time?

You don’t need to believe in the good science, but you need to see,

‘How It All Ends’ 9min.
http://wonderingmind42.com/?page=1

#16 Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 at 1:06 am

. . . “Dion’s tax on everything.”

Sure beats lily-livered harpo’s lies and deceptions on most everything!

“. . . but will start to happen if Stephane Dion becomes prime minister.” . . .

Should have read: “start to happen WHEN Stephane Dion becomes PM.”

I can see why CRAP is running scared — the longer Dion holds off calling the election (really good strategy), the longer CRAP will have to prorogue Parliament so voters will see for themselves what a complete fraud artist harpo is, which will result in a Lib. majority.

Nobody likes a liar or cheat. Ask Americans who have lost family members in wars based on outright lies. For that matter, ask Cdn. families.
****************************************
A note of interest: Now that the lumber industry has virtually dried up, Tolko (which shut down its mills a while back), said that it is planning on going into . . . wait for it . . . real estate development! Yes — You Heard It Here First!

Is this critical mass thinking, far-sightedness or what? Level-headed planning my ass!

It seems that because Tolko has land, all they have to do is apply to the Prov. govt. here to change the zoning, and if they’re successful, cut down the rest of the trees and build more homes, except the real estate market is slowly headed south.

The old saying from the ’60s applies here — “Don’t drink and drive, smoke shit and fly!” — someone doesn’t know their pinky from a booger!
****************************************
For those that are into growing organic veggies, etc., this may be of interest.

http://tinyurl.com/578m37
*******************************************
Whoever wrote this forgot to include the fiscal meltdown, foreclosures in the UK, US and possibly here, and the effects — getting even further into debt, rather than getting out of it — these various combinations of things have on folk.

Eventually, people simply throw in the towel and give up altogether.

http://tinyurl.com/4nkj99
****************************************
Big, brave dubya — “I am the decider” — if any of his BS can be believed, then Noah’s Ark is waiting to take them away to the local looneybin! Rest of commentary courtesy of whatreallyhappened.com.

“Obviously, Bush has legacy on the brain syndrome, to be pulling this kind of stunt and I honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry, reading this.

“bin Laden ‘assumed room temperature’ some years ago, and both the US and British intelligence agencies know this full well.

“So what do you think they’re going to do, find someone who looks like bin Laden to arrest, throw in jail, and ultimately assassinate just so that some people might actually think they really caught the guy?

“If Washington and London politicians really think this song and dance will be believed by the thinking public, they are absolutely, completely wrong!”

http://tinyurl.com/3fthmu

#17 Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 at 1:08 am

Hi John Duddy,

One more link to think about,

‘Robert Newman’s History Of Oil’, 1of9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQhhrzHKMhI

#18 Trevor on 06.15.08 at 1:23 am

Kinda fitting that we need to guess at what you are talking about in this blog post and try to fill in the blanks, lacking detail just like the much anticipated carbon tax that will solve all our problems.

#19 Sid on 06.15.08 at 2:20 am

Funny the Cons have never stopped to ponder why all those millions blown on juvenile attack ads have done nothing to improve their standing in the polls.

The Con party has acquired a collective demeanor that appeals to a small core. That small core really, really thrills to the whole spectacle and nastiness. The voice their approval in a loud and appreciative way.

That noise is disproportionate and convinces the loons in charge of this strategy that it is worth continuing.

How simply the Cons could acquire their majority.

Harper is an intelligent individual but his paranoia, self-righteousness and pettiness cancels out the appeal of his smarts to the vast majority outside the Con base.

If he started treating Dion with respect and infused all his and the Con public statements with decency and a real commitment to get things done, they could have their majority.

But there’s something hard-wired into them that will prevent that from happening.

#20 Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 at 3:31 am

Mr. Garth TurnerMP, FYI

Macleans magazine, June 23rd,2008 edits.
page 38.
‘Forget crops plant a solar farm instead.’

Why is Ontario Government spending all our money building this only 60-magawatt solar farm and promissing them 42 cents a kWh, 7x the going rate, for 20 years!
Why are we offering to pay wind and biomass projects 11 cents a kWh?

Such a missed placement of resource.
On power that when the sun is down and the wind isn’t often blowing on the hottest and coldest days don’t work!
Yes it does have it’s place, some of the time.

Ontario now is getting 52-54% of it’s base load power form it’s clean, safe,
CANDU power plants, that are running for almost 100% of the time.

Residential customers in Ontario currently pay 5 cents a kWh for electricity. They aren’t giving it way for free you no. Just ask the private companys that run the Burce power plants.

No one is dieing from nuclear power plants in the west. The waste is not getting out into the environment.
We do have solution to long term storage!

But people are getting sick and dieing from the burning of fosile fuels like coal, oil, and natural gas to make energy we all use! And burning of coal is releasing radio active paticals into the air we are all breathing in now!

We need more nuclear power to help stop Global warming in time, and it needs to be very very soon.
The low end 2 degree rise in global temp that is already set in motion will mean a 9 degree increase in the hottest days we have haear in Southern Ontario!
People will be dieing from the heat!
If we don’t stop dumping carbon and other green house gasses into the air, it is going to get apocolipticaly BAD!!!
Do you really think food crops will grow in the hotter drier climate?

The last few CANDU power plants were built on time and under budget!!!
For more on CANDU power goto:
http://www.aecl.ca/
http://www.cna.ca/

Were is all the energy going to come from to recharge all the plug-in cars?
Were is all the energy going to come from to make haydrogen?
Were is all the energy going to come from to mine and change stuff into the other stuff we use and eat?
Were is all the energy going to come from to move all the stuff to were it is needed, including water?
Were are we going to get all the energy we use now and in the future and NOT cause our only home earth to become to hot for life like all us human being and the food we need to survive?

Still think or are not sure about the facts on Nuclear power plants?
You need to read this book!

‘Power to Save the World: The Truth About Nuclear Energy’
by Gwyneth Cravens
(scroll down for editorial review)
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Save-World-Nuclear-Energy/dp/0307266567

This is another good book also,

‘Kicking the Carbon Habit: Global Warming and the Case for Renewable and Nuclear Energy’,
by William Sweet (Feb 1, 2008)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=kicking+the+carbon+habit

David Suzuki, that recomends this book
‘The Weather Makers : How Man Is Changing the Climate and What It Means for Life on Earth’, by Tim Flannery.
http://www.theweathermakers.org/

Tim Flannery even says we need to go much more, to clean, safe, Nuclear power, at least in the mid term, and very, very soon if we are going to stop climate change in time to prevent going past a tipping point in our climate, that will not be good for anyone, persent and future!

If you still think that Nuclear power plants are not safe, not clean, and to costy, then you are not well informed!!!

If you think the science of climate change is for real, the same science for clean, safe, reliable, cost competative nuclear power, uses the same kind of scientific methode.

Are you a critical thinker?
Are you well informed?
Do you like to keep your lights on as needed, so to speak?
Do you want to stop pumping green house gasses into the air in time to stop cliamte change for us and future generations?

Then Nuclear power is the only ready to go technology we have at present that can get the job done in time to prevent the worst from happening!
We are quickly running out of time!

We need to get going and stop F*****G about, not getting it done! Like Harper and his gang are doing, NOT getting it done!

You need to get yourself well informed,
and do some critical-thinking.

Vote for people that will get the job done in time, and help us all get the job done for our selves and our kids.
Even PMSH’s kids.

PMSH and his gang are looking out for there corporate oil friends like Bush and company!
And the american industial complex.
Have you been paying attention?
The Corporate run media isn’t payed to tell you what you really need to know!

PMSH and gang can’t be well informed and critical-thinkers, or they would take real action in time, NOW!

PMSH seem to not even care about his own kids future in this world. Do you think PMSH cares about you and your family, really?

There isn’t time to leave this to your kids to fix! We the adults NOW, we need to get the job done in time, or we and our families will all be F****D!!!

For some more to think about;

Fist watch and lisen to, with modern images;

‘Plato’s, The Allegory of the Cave’7min.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Ei7LqbYb8M&feature=related

Then watch,

‘Zeitgeist’, The Movie, 2007
can find down load it for free at,
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/statement.htm

#21 Devin Johnston on 06.15.08 at 3:43 am

Why not just wait until after the launch to publish this article? As it stands, the article is unreadable and uninformative.

#22 Dr Mike from Rodney on 06.15.08 at 4:32 am

Why is Happy Jack Layton smiling in this picture??

What has he seen that amuses him to no end??

Why is he doing that odd finger pointing “thingy” like he about to start to sing & dance??

Good old Happy Jack , soon to be gone & totally forgotten.

Dr Mike Popovich–former life-long Conservative.

PS–why the hell are the taxpayers funding another Conservative attempt to kill Stephane Dion??—enough already , we get the point–that talking grease ball & those yellow shirts , were sure better than adding a few beds to our healthcare system or housing some of our homeless .

Oooops , almost forgot , Mr Flaherty wants those homeless “scumbags” jailed anyway–that problem solved.

#23 Brent Fullard on 06.15.08 at 5:13 am

Tell me this “encounter” wasn’t a pre-arranged photo-op?

Jack Layton is in bed with Harper, They had lunch on that fateful day of October 31, 2006. Everything else is history……and the fraud known as tax leakage was perpetrated by Jack Layton for the CON that he is, and as leader of the Newly Duped Party of Canada.

The man is a disgrace of democracy. He is a charter member of the flat earth society when it comes to eanting to knowe the hard verifiable facts ( that the tax leakage claims are both unproven unsubstantiated and totally fabricated…, if not, where’s the government’s proof?)

I know, as I have discussed this matter with Wacko Jacko in person, and as well as his two Finance critics on this file: Judy Wasylycia-Lies and Thomas Don’t care.

Yellow jesrsys for the lot of them.

#24 TS on 06.15.08 at 5:25 am

Sadly, the GST was supposed to be “revenue neutral”… please quote government documents supporting this statement.

The GST was created by the Mulroney Conservatives. It is a GREAT way to collect tax since it taxes consumption. It was never intended to be revenue neutral.

Let’s hike it back up to 7%… heck let’s take it up to 10% and cut income taxes and invest some of the proceeds in green initiatives.

#25 kpn on 06.15.08 at 5:44 am

Residential customers in Ontario currently pay 5 cents a kWh for electricity. They aren’t giving it way for free you no. Just ask the private companys that run the Burce power plants.

By Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 3:31 am

Hi Greg – Nova Scotia Power, a subsidiary of Emera, charges us 10.7 cents for KwH, excluding HST, and have applied to the Utilities Board for a 12+ % increase. IIRC, they are removing an 8% provincial rebate for homes that are heated electrically, which ours is. BTW, the vast majority of the electricity is produced via coal.

In the last 2 years to help offset our costs, and as I am home during the day, we have been using our wood stove downstairs about 80% of the time during the winter. Ours is an airtight stove, but there are more efficient models on the market now. Haven’t checked into their costs tho. and don’t believe there is any rebate program on the purchase of a new one here.

Have a good day all.

#26 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:21 am

The fact tht the Liberals will not turf this government is proof positive that deep down they don’t think it is doing that badly that it needs to be turfed NOW! That sentiment is pure, unadulterated rhetoric only, with absolutely no substance to it.

By sheila on 06.14.08 9:51 pm

I see….well how about the fact that Harper lied on Income Trusts, how about the fact that the in & out scam is nothing but a raid on taxpayers money. How about the fact that Harper tried in interfere in the U.S. election, and then used an inside source to investigate that acknowledged leaks but no leakers..LMAO…
How about the fact that Harper lied in the House about former Liberal appointments?
How about the fact that Harper was caught on tape admitting there were financial considerations offered to Cadman?
How about the fact he lied to get elected on the Atlantic Accord?
How about the fact his Finance Minsiter broke the law in not tendering contract on his speech writing?
How about the fact that he ran on the principle that his government would be honest, ethical, accountable and different than those “thieving Liberals” , and in fact, are no better and in many ways worse.
How about the fact that Harper appointed Bernier only to secure Quebec votes knowing full well he was compentent to fill the job?
How about the fact that Harper paid out equalizaton payment during the Quebec election with a view to gaining more seats there for CPC sympathizers?
How about the fact that the CPC are robbing Ontario on fair representation?
This is the best minority government, this is the kind of government and the kind of leader you would like to stay in power?
I suggest you take another look or are you so blinded by party loyalty you cannot see the truth?
I would suggest you place your X beside the best independent candidate in your riding…the CPC is dead meat!

#27 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:24 am

“How fucking stupid do you think the electorate are”? (That question does not apply to your cheerleaders on this blog). Anyone that thinks we are in trouble now wait until these guys try and implement this shit if they are ever elected. I wish you guys that applaud this Liberal bunch would wake up and realize how dangerous they can really be. Are Inspector Clousseau and Queen Elizabeth May dating now?

By Brian Wilson on 06.14.08 10:48 pm

How stupid, I admit very, I voted CPC the last time around…this time I will be smart and vote ABC!

#28 Catherine on 06.15.08 at 6:32 am

So when Stephane Dion launches “the Green Carbon Tax” schtick on Wednesday, will he use his staffers and the CBC? :-)

But, seriously, my family and I have practiced good environmental practices for decades (smaller home, upgraded windows, doors, higher insulation, cloth diapers, smaller cars, less takeout, more home cooked meals that are prepared for days of eating, stir-frys, lowering temp in winter-18 degrees, using central air sparingly in summer – generally about 10 days at 25 degrees, using lighting sparingly, etc. etc.).

So now Stephane Dion seems fit to punish me and my family by goughing me with this Carbon Tax.

Tell me Garth, even if he keeps his promise of lowering taxes – will he not federally tax anyone under 40,000$? Because, by all accounts every single thing that my family will buy will have this dirct and indirect Carbon Tax (food, clothing, gas for cars, heating, lighting, etc) – hence increasing our personal costs substantially.

It leads me to believe that Stephane Dion and the Liberals are just addicted to MY dollars and want to punish every one in their path.

#29 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:32 am

If he started treating Dion with respect and infused all his and the Con public statements with decency and a real commitment to get things done, they could have their majority.

But there’s something hard-wired into them that will prevent that from happening.

By Sid on 06.15.08 2:20 am

Yes Sid, I have always wondered why Harper, with this excellent opportunity he had, frittered it away by playing the role of mean and nasty PM, when if he had sticked to his government’s plan, behaved like a PM, he could have sold the populace on a majority. Susan Riley of the Ottawa Citizen summed it all up about two years ago on “The Agenda” or it’s predessor “Studio 2″ when she said Harper is consumed by his hatred of Liberals and it will be his downfall. How prophetic those words have become!

#30 Catherine-also on 06.15.08 at 6:38 am

I’m looking forward to the Green Shift launch. Ever since Dion mentioned the words carbon tax shift and both Harper and Layton attacked it, there has been a lot more attention paid to what we need to do.

We have a lot of catching up to do, both in our awareness and in our actions. Sweden is well on its path to becoming oil free, whereas Canada continues to increase its oil consumption. Much of Europe adapted to gas prices twice as high as ours, whereas our economy struggles under comparatively modest increases. Many of these countries have lower poverty rates than Canada, even with hefty consumption and carbon taxes, because they long ago did the shift.

#31 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:45 am

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=8671ce25-fe6e-4953-ab03-57b570cb7f91

Now are the CPC trying to say Julie absconded with the papers?
What were the standing rules set by the PCO regarding information on the spouses and g/fs of cabinet ministers?
Were the RCMP instructed to tell the PCO or PMO when they encountered some concerns or not?
Questions that need answers….

#32 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:47 am

By jwp on 06.15.08 6:21 am

Of course that should have read “Bernier was incompentent”

#33 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:50 am

It leads me to believe that Stephane Dion and the Liberals are just addicted to MY dollars and want to punish every one in their path.

By Catherine on 06.15.08 6:32 am

It will be of little surprise to anyone who reads this blog on a regukar basis that you, B o B, have come to this conclusion. We realize you prefer Deceiving Stevie!

#34 Catherine on 06.15.08 at 7:05 am

So is the EU (European Union) responsible for China’s pollution emissions?

Given that the EU has spent Billions in China (to offset its own Kyoto targets) and China now is contributing 2/3 of the total man made emissions, should we be concerned that the real UN hidden agenda was to shift the wealth of the western world to China?

http://www.ccchina.gov.cn/en/NewsInfo.asp?NewsId=11962
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/13/business/emit.php

#35 Darlene on 06.15.08 at 7:33 am

Charles Oxley RE post 6.15.08 1:06 AM

Thanks for the link to http://tinyurl.com/578m37

Have you done any reading on permaculture? It follows the same type of premise.

#36 slg on 06.15.08 at 7:41 am

A little common sense would tell you that if Harper and Layton weren’t worried they wouldn’t come out to attack something they know nothing about. Talk about fear hitting you right in the face.

Why are they so worried? Could it be that Harper has no plan and Layton is scared of the Green Party – duh, ya.

Jack Layton is no Tommy Douglas – Douglas wouldn’t play these games. And yet, Layton has the nerve to use Tommy Douglas’ name. The man has no scruples.

Layton makes my skin crawl.

Simply put – why are the CPC supporters getting all bent out of shape when in actual fact they DON’T know what the plan is? Doesn’t make any sense whatsoever – they allow themselves to be treated like their stupid – what a shame.

I don’t know how I feel about a plan I don’t know about yet. I WILL decide for “myself” how I feel about it. Anyone, I mean anyone who has any pride in themselves would decide for themselves and not take the word of ambitious politicians like Harper and Layton.

Harper, Layton, Dion, May – NONE of them are going to tell me what I think of a plan – I will decide for MYSELF.

#37 Sherm on 06.15.08 at 7:55 am

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Let’s hope that is not real, that it is just a photoshopped pic. It is very disturbing to see these young people passing out these particular flyers. And if indeed this isn’t a joke and they don’t recognize JL then we have a serious problem.

It reminds one of certain worshippers who go door to door, locked into their mindset and blindly following their ‘faith’. Follow the leader at all costs.

History repeats itself. Let’s hope this is not a 60 year cycle.

Get them while they are young. PP is a good example of that kind of blind obedience.

That scares me.

#38 slg on 06.15.08 at 7:56 am

By the way – Happy Father’s Day to all you dads – it’s quite a responsibility when decisions you make affect your children and grandchildren in the future – take it seriously.

I don’t have my dad anymore but he was the one who taught me to think for myself and not be lead by the nose by anyone. With all going on, I sure appreciate his wise advice.

Again, Happy Father’s Day.

#39 TS on 06.15.08 at 8:06 am

An interesting piece on ‘cap and trade’…the European approach.

Europe offers lessons in carbon-trading

As Canadian politicians fight over the best policy to wrestle down carbon emissions, the European Union made its decision years ago — it adopted a “cap-and-trade” system.

A. Denny Ellerman, a lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management, told CTV.ca there are lessons for both the United States and Canada.

Cap-and-trade sets a cap on carbon emissions and then allocates a share of them to industry. Companies that are over their allowance can buy from those who are under, creating a price for carbon.

Given Canada’s political wrangling over a looming announcement by the Liberal party that it favours a carbon tax, it’s worth noting that the EU proposed its Emissions Trading System (ETS) in 2001 partly because various member nations could not agree on a carbon tax.

Taxation measures within the EU must be unanimous, and some countries opposed a carbon tax.

Instituting a cap-and-trade system only required a “qualified majority,” he said.

By 2005, the EU carbon market was operating. The original goal was to get the ETS running in its three-year trial period, but not reduce carbon emissions. That EU hoped to cut emissions in the 2008-2012 period covered by the Kyoto Protocol.

But emissions reductions were still achieved, Ellerman wrote in a paper with Paul L. Joskow, an MIT economics professor.

Some people had warned setting a carbon cap would wreck Europe’s economy. Ellerman and Joskow found that carbon trading had no effect on the overall economy, or even on carbon-intensive industries like steel and cement.

“The European experience is that it hasn’t had the dire effects that had been predicted,” Ellerman said, although the long-term effects on investment are still unknown.

Some other lessons learned from Europe:

Flexibility is good: European companies can “bank” and “borrow” emissions credits.
Good data is critically important: You need it on a business-by-business basis. The absence of good data in the earlier going made the price of carbon more volatile than it had to be.
Compromise may be necessary: Some polluters got free credits, but Ellerman argued that offering some carrot with the stick had them buy into the system.
Not all sectors are covered. As a result, transportation emissions have surged and hinder the EU’s ability to meet its Kyoto target.
The EU’s system, while centrally administered, gives participating countries significant control over setting emissions caps and distributing allowances, among other things.

Canadian, U.S. context

Canada will have a system of domestic credits-trading under the Conservative government’s program announced in April 2007.

No hard cap exists under the Tory plan, but if companies exceed their target, they can get credits to sell or trade. Credits are also being offered to companies that made early progress in cutting emissions.

The Tories are basing their system on emissions intensity, which requires companies in the 17 regulated sectors to use progressively less carbon per unit of production. It has set a target of a 20 per cent cut below 2006 levels by 2020.

To compare, Canada’s Kyoto target of a six per cent cut below 1990 levels wouldn’t be achieved until 2025, not 2012 as called for in the global treaty.

Some provinces, dissatisfied with the federal approach are setting off on their own. Ontario and Quebec, the country’s two largest provinces, recently announced a plan to set up a cap-and-trade system — much to the federal government’s displeasure.

Quebec also belongs to the Western Climate Initiative (WCI), as do Manitoba and B.C.

Carbon-rich Alberta, which represents 40 per cent of Canada’s GHG emissions, isn’t taking part in the WCI. It has established its own climate target of a 14 per cent cut below 2005 levels by 2050.

In the U.S., Ellerman said there’s lots of talk about cap-and-trade, but little action.

On June 6, a major piece of climate change legislation died in the U.S. Senate. It would have capped carbon emissions and required polluters to buy permits.

Both Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain, the presumptive Democratic and Republican nominees for president, favour the cap-and-trade approach. Ellerman said progress towards such a system will depend on change in the White House.

U.S. President George Bush had said he wouldn’t sign the bill even if it did pass.

For a new president, it will depend on how much political capital they want to put into fighting climate change, Ellerman said.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion has made a big political gamble by signalling he’ll bring in a carbon tax if his party takes power. Given the debate in this country, does Ellerman have any feelings about carbon tax vs. cap-and-trade?

Europe is largely seen as more tax-tolerant than the United States or Canada. But Ellerman noted that taxes on energy, already facing the effects soaring of oil costs, have led to protests by British truckers and French fishermen.

“In the United States … taxes are a dirty word,” he said.

With cap-and-trade, the price is hidden and the effect is seen as limiting emissions.

“You can say it really doesn’t make any difference. But I think that politically, cap-and-trade is a lot more politically acceptable than a tax,” he said.

On a personal basis I would like to see a cap and trade component, as well as a carbon tax with offsetting cuts in income taxes. I think the double barrelled approach would allow Canada to move forward very quickly. Offsetting cuts in personal income taxes would help protect consumers, while still encouraging behavioural change.

#40 TS on 06.15.08 at 8:20 am

Here is another piece related to the carbon tax issue… Jeff Rubin, a senior economist with the CIBC brings up an interesting point of view that a ‘carbon tariff’ on imported goods would help to level the international playfield, and may help to bring manufacturing back to developed nations since the effects of a ‘carbon tariff’ would more than offset any cheap labour cost advantages currently enjoyed by countries like China.

Just another viewpoint to consider….

Carbon tax to impact trade: report
CIBC predicts tariffs would bring industry back to developed world in search of better efficiency
Fiona Anderson, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, March 28, 2008
Putting a price on carbon emissions will change international trade patterns as countries with emission standards impose tariffs on those without, according to a report by CIBC World Markets.

But when that will happen is a matter of debate.

Factories have traditionally located where labour is cheapest, CIBC’s Benjamin Tal and Jeff Rubin wrote in the report. But with oil prices in the triple digits and developed countries now starting to implement carbon taxes and cap-and-trade systems, the cost of energy will become the deciding factor.

Email to a friend

Printer friendly
Font:****Then energy-intensive industries that went to China and other developing countries for the cheap labour will come back, Rubin said in an interview.

“And the reason they’ll be coming back is because in most of these industries North America is much more energy- and carbon-efficient than the developing world is,” he said.

“In addition, once you put a price on the carbon emissions from burning that energy, we’re a lot more efficient.”

But for that to happen the price of carbon emissions has to be the same throughout the world. And countries such as China — which is opening coal-fired electricity plants at the rate of one per week — are unlikely to impose their own regulations. That means regulated countries will have to impose the price through a duty on imports, Rubin said.

And they will, because otherwise countries will be sacrificing their own economies for no gain, he said.

“Because it makes absolutely no sense for us to pay 30 per cent more for our electricity because we don’t allow any new coal-fired capacity to be built, while China is building 560 coal plants,” Rubin said.

Jock Finlayson, executive vice-president at the Business Council of British Columbia, believes a carbon tariff may eventually arise, but that it won’t be any time soon.

British Columbia announced a carbon tax in its budget in February. But Ontario, which came out with its budget earlier this week, was “resolutely silent” on initiatives to cut back greenhouse gases, Finlayson said.

“So if the B.C. government was hoping other provinces were going to be jumping into this arena, they probably are going to have to reassess this,” Finlayson said. “Because Alberta’s not, Saskatchewan’s not and now it’s very clear Ontario’s not.”

But while governments aren’t embracing regulations as quickly as perhaps B.C. hoped, things will change eventually, he said.

“Shutting down industry in North America, including here in B.C., and offshoring the production of cement or steel or anything else and then just importing it back to North America, not only does that not help us economically, it actually is negative in terms of global emissions,” Finlayson said.

“Because the offshoring means the products are being manufactured in areas with lower environmental standards and you’ve also got the transportation-related emissions.

“So eventually I think we could end up seeing a carbon tariff or some type of effort by [developed] countries to require the suppliers of imported goods to meet certain performance standards with respect to how their products are manufactured in terms of carbon intensity,” he said. “But I think we’re quite a long way from that now.”

[email protected]

#41 Blah Blah on 06.15.08 at 8:21 am

Layton is going to campaign against this? I don’t think so, if he wants his caucus intact. Also, Olivia running for Hampton’s job, heard anything on that Garth?

#42 Bill-Muskoka on 06.15.08 at 8:23 am

Gee, standing and travelling together in pairs. Sounds like Harper copied the Mormon Youth Missionary scheme. Back to real life with my two fun grandsons.

#43 Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 at 8:27 am

Hi Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 1:06 am,

Thanks for the link about Bush again,
http://tinyurl.com/3fthmu
Bush is still lieing! A lot like the neo-con PMSH and his gang.

Yes, thinking and informed people
that are paying attention already know Osama Bin Laden is dead!
If you don’t already know lisen to,11min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
or 2min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zScYmvmANcA&feature=related

Why was she killed? Maybe because she wasn’t playing along with the mythical lies.
http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2007/12/benazir-bhutto-us-policy-causes-world.html

I wonder who Bush using the UK special forces what to have killed this time round?

#44 Taxed to the max on 06.15.08 at 8:31 am

There has never never been one tax shift in the history of Canada that was “revenue neutral.” That is a buzz word that completely turns off the voter because it does not respect his or her intelligence that has come to understand what these buzz words actually mean in reality.

Nobody but nobody believes that this carbon tax will be “revenue neutral,” nor do they trust the Liberals to lower taxes any more than they trust their promise of 1993 to eliminate the GST.

The GST was supposed to simply replace the Manufacturer’s Tax, but it was a tax grab, not a tax shift.

The spin of this carbon tax being “revenue neutral” simply does not resonate with any one. It simply does not wash, and this message needs to get out before anybody within the Liberal caucus believes that the Canadian electorate will fall for this falsehood one more time.

The Liberals had better have something more than this carbon tax to campaign on, because no tax, not any tax, is popular, but is an extremely tough sell.

Jack Layton is waiting, with guns loaded, for the day that this cabon tax is announced to shoot it down in flames before it even gets airbourne.

He couldn’t hit his foot. — Garth

#45 Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 at 8:34 am

Hi kpn on 06.15.08 5:44 am,

Instead of burning anything that makes greenhouse gases to heat and cool our homes and building, we should all be incuraged to switch to geo-therm.

All new homes and building should have to have this cleaner heating a/c installed in the first place.

You’ll be glade you did as the oil and gas prices keep climbing and when we run out.

#46 Anon on 06.15.08 at 8:39 am

Hope you guys don’t get hit with a lawsuit, because there’s a company called Green Shift (see http://www.greenshift.ca).

Handled, of course. — Garth

#47 Zorpheous on 06.15.08 at 8:39 am

Garth, I would just like to say **** and I think **** is really the best way to go about ****. It’s isn’t easy doing **** when the CPC are a bunch of **** and ****, not to mention that they are really ****, **** *****.

I will be good to finall see **** from the Liberals on ****.

#48 Herb on 06.15.08 at 8:47 am

Garth, you are a tease!

Did you leave the *** in “Garth Turner is Halton’s ***.” so that our beloved trolls could let their imaginations run amok?

And let’s not replace yellow shirts with green scarves. Visual pollution is pollution too.

More after the asterisks are filled in.

#49 kpn on 06.15.08 at 8:53 am

Thanks for that link Charles.

Have you done any reading on permaculture? It follows the same type of premise.

By Darlene on 06.15.08 7:33 am

Darlene & Charles – Before I retired ( 6 years ago) I read about the lasagna method and Ruth Stout. Honestly don’t know why I didn’t pursue it. We had nutrient rich soil – mostly composted soils that we’d be able to collect when new developments (where woods were removed & before developers scraped off the top soil, sold it to landscaping companies who then sold it back to the new homeowners.). Recall one instance where I called one co. which was clearing land (drove by each day) & called them and they agreed to bring us a few tandem truckloads of this composted material for the cost of hauling it. After I retired, started having major back problems. Saw GP who sent me to physiotherapists & finally a chiro for lower back problems who immediately sent me for Xrays (1st to do so, which showed I had squished (?) discs in my lower back. He believed it had went back about 20 yrs previously & then I recall I did have a bad fall which resulted in knee surgery. Now I can do little gardening, but still put in a veggie garden, on my knees & bum (a real bummer :-). Have been in the process of removing most of my perennials, with the help of someone I have hired, & selling them. Gradually replacing them with additional flowering & everygreen shrubs that require little maintenance except pruning.

As I spend more time weeding than anything else last 2/3 years will definitely consider layering method in veggie garden. Thanks for reminding me of this layering method. Soon going out to work in the garden. At least the wind is not strong today.

#50 Catherine-also on 06.15.08 at 8:59 am

Here is the latest IEA data on global CO2 emissions, combined with estimates from 2007 BP energy data.

See graph of emissions by country .

You can see from this report, that what Catherine on 06.15.08 7:05 am is referring to is the emissions due to coal, not “total man made emissions” as she claims.

#51 Leasa on 06.15.08 at 9:11 am

By Catherine-also on 06.15.08 6:38 am

Of course Europe can and has adjusted to higher fuel costs! In Europe, I can get on a fast commuter train (that’s ALWAYS on time) and go anywhere I want. Most European countries have a much warmer climate. My family in Holland can get to work and school on a bicycle, no problem. As for the farmers who must use a lot of fuel…subsidy. No problem. How do you expect CNDs to live with out-of-the-world fuel and heating costs in our climate? I think if we don’t get this under control, we will see a lot more seniors eating cat food in order to stay warm, and forget getting to those doctor’s appointments.

The mere idea/thought/suggestion of adding a ‘carbon tax’ scares the crap out of most Canadians, and rightly so.

Leasa

Especially if you have anything to do with it, you alarmist chick. — Garth

#52 Jim on 06.15.08 at 9:12 am

Much of Europe adapted to gas prices twice as high as ours, whereas our economy struggles under comparatively modest increases.

Yes, Europe is doing incredibly well.

Double digit unemployment, punitive taxation, roads blocked every second Thursday, ritual burning cars every Tuesday! Increasing violence against gays, women, people speaking out like Theo van Gogh, whole neighborhoods on welfare, an aging population that depends on massive immigration to support it’s social programs. Homegrown terrorism. Massive, I mean massive youth unemployment. It’s dreamy over there.

I’m on board!

The Green Shift will not increase the gas tax, and have a minimal impact on producer costs. Stop being a Chicken Little. — Garth

#53 Chris Ariens on 06.15.08 at 9:12 am

Not only have Canada’s government done diddly about climate change…can you believe they’re actually working to a stall a $10B project to fund technology in developing nations. Even George W. Bush has committed $2 billion to this initiative.

Globe and Mail story

Imagine that…Harper is even less progressive than Bush when it comes to the environment.

#54 Dube on 06.15.08 at 9:15 am

Macleans magazine, June 23rd,2008 edits.
page 38.
‘Forget crops plant a solar farm instead.’

Why is Ontario Government spending all our money building this only 60-magawatt solar farm and promissing them 42 cents a kWh, 7x the going rate, for 20 years!

Why are we offering to pay wind and biomass projects 11 cents a kWh?

By Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 3:31 am

Greg W.,

While I most definitely support use of nuclear power over fossil-fuel based power plants, I do not do so at the expense of discouraging development of other forms generation through renewable sources. Any new technology is initially costly – the LCD screen that I am viewing as I type was purchased for around $800-$900 – but through mass production and its inherent economies of scale, and refinement and improvement in manufacturing processes, the price comes down – I can buy the same LCD screen, which is on the small size by today’s standards, for about $150-$200. The same goes for alternate energy sources. When you can now walk into a Canadian Tire and purchase solar panels, you know that a trickle-down effect is starting to take place

Just this morning, CBC News carried a feature on the construction boom that is taking place in California for solar-powered homes, and will apparently carry an extended version on tonight’s news. The broadcast mentions how a similar boom is taking place in Germany, suggesting the technology would be applicable to cooler climates like our own. It can be heard here:

Starts at 04:19, Runs to 06:20
http://podcast.cbc.ca/wr/wr_20080615.mp3

And this from Australia’s ABC Radio, this broadcast:

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/pm/200806/20080613-pm07-solar.mp3

A transcript can be read here:

Ministers queue to see expat’s solar technology
PM – Friday, 13 June , 2008 18:40:00
Reporter: Sarah Clarke

MARK COLVIN: He was the prophet without honour in his own country but since Professor David Mills joined the brain drain, he’s got Australian governments queuing up to check out his solar technology.

Professor Mills left Australia last year to take his scientific expertise to the United States.

Now he has the backing of one of America’s leading venture capitalists. He’s built the biggest solar manufacturing plant of its kind in the world and he’s proposing solar-thermal as the energy solution for the US national grid.

This weekend, the Queensland and Victorian Premiers and the NSW Environment Minister are on their way to Las Vegas to check out the solar design that’s booming in the US.

And the scientist behind the technology says that with the right framework, Australia could sign up too and produce 90 per cent of its electricity from the sun.


http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2274415.htm

#55 Dube on 06.15.08 at 9:22 am

Carbon Tax

The Conservatives “Turning the Corner” plan that calls for intensity based targets, a reduction in pollutants per unit of material produced does not state that those reductions will not come without cost, nor that those increased costs will not be passed on to the consumer: they absolutely will. However unlike the Liberal plan, they have only considered one half of the equation. There is no offset to act as a countervailing balance against that rise, such as through a decrease in personal taxes, and so there will be a net increase. Nominally the Conservatives may affix a label like “price for carbon”, rather than calling it a “tax”, but in essence it amounts to the same thing as polluters end up paying government for their excesses and that increment gets passed down to consumers.

I think a good label for the Conservative approach might be called something like the “Tax On Everything” plan.

#56 Canuck on 06.15.08 at 9:25 am

John Duddy, for your information (this took five minutes to discover:)

Lindsey Williams: 4 Threads on <a href= Peak Oil

Final thread synopsis:

Consensus: wacko!

—-

Why on earth people believe conspiracies theories is beyond me.

It’s Sunday today and people would profit from taking a break from partisan politics: … go grow a garden, go sailing, hiking, camping or something where you realize there are good people in Canada that help each other and would be insulted in offered money in payment.

Not everyone is corrupt and despite what some believe, there are honest politicians that try their best to represent their riding. I strongly suspect Garth may be one of them because he holds lots of town meetings and is very open about his opinions. He invites challenge by hosting this blog.

#57 Dube on 06.15.08 at 9:25 am

Susan Riley of the Ottawa Citizen summed it all up about two years ago on “The Agenda” or it’s predessor “Studio 2? when she said Harper is consumed by his hatred of Liberals and it will be his downfall. How prophetic those words have become!

By jwp on 06.15.08 6:32 am

Riley had more to say in the same vein just two days ago:

Susan Riley . Jekyll and Harper
Susan Riley, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, June 13, 2008


Environment Minister John Baird and multiculturalism secretary Jason Kenney are both able, bilingual debaters, but rigid partisans with a taste for the jugular and only one setting – rage. Kenney recently turned Dion’s carbon tax musings into “a secret plan to tax Canadians on everything.” Worse is House Leader Peter Van Loan, with his all-purpose sneer, thick portfolio of ancient grievances and willingness to read anything put in front of him.

As for 29-year-old Nepean Tory MP Pierre Poilievre, when he isn’t attacking harmless minorities like transgendered people, he works overtime shredding the reputations of his intellectual and moral betters across the aisle, armed with unshakeable belief in his own harsh judgments and a towering ambition – if a little light on empathy and life experience. Poilievre was forced to apologize yesterday after he wondered aloud at all the money being poured into aboriginal communities, suggesting a little hard work wouldn’t go amiss. So much for turning a new page. So much for respect.

A prime minister intent on broadening his base – on attracting women, luring back progressive conservatives, making inroads in cities – would relegate childish provocateurs like Poilievre, Baird and Kenney to the margins. He would houseclean his office, too, reassigning media-phobic communications director, Sandra Buckler, getting rid of the Sesame Street political ops squad inspired by Doug Finley. But he may, instead, be moving in the opposite direction with the arrival of austere former Mike Harris aide Guy Giorno to take over his office, and, presumably, batten down any remaining hatches.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=a550bdc7-f768-4bdf-b296-7df40b8704f9&p=2

#58 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 10:16 am

By John Duddy. on 06.14.08 9:31 pm

If the gentleman in this video is being upfront honest,and I have no reason to doubt he is,then this oil/gas buisness is the biggest scam since organized religion.And this Harper regime has the unmitigated gall to even think about running these stupid ads at gas stations and through the media.And why is Canada exporting oil to the US if they have all this untapped oil in Alaska.Something stinks and it’s more than the tailings ponds in Alberta.

Then we have Emerson and Blackburn over in Columbia signing a Free Trade Agreement with a country who treats it trade unionists and members like dogs.
And while the details of the agreement haven’t been made public yet,we do have this statement from Foreign affairs.

Canada’s solution: to add a little twist to the Colombian FTA’s LCSA, which is clearly meant as window dressing and little more. According to Foreign Affairs’ press release on the trade agreement (which is all we have to go on right now), “If obligations [under a country’s labour law] are not respected, the offending country may have to pay up to $15 million in any one year into a cooperation fund, which will be used to resolve issues identified through the dispute resolution process.”

MAY HAVE TO PAY.MAY HAVE TO PAY.Even the US wouldn’t deal with this Columbian regime for Free Trade.
But the Con-Reform has no problem.This is the same bunch who are so gung-ho on Law and Order.Guess that doesn’t apply to the poor bastards in Columbia who are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families at a decent wage only to have para-military low lifes kill and torture them at will.
But as long as Canadian companies can profit,that’s more important than human rights violations in Columbia.

Todd Gordon an assistant professor of Canadian Studies at the University of Toronto.

http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/bullet112.html

#59 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 10:27 am

I think a good label for the Conservative approach might be called something like the “Tax On Everything” plan.

By Dube on 06.15.08 9:22 am

To late that phrase has been already been taken, maybe you should try thinking of a new one,

Gord.

#60 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 10:33 am

The Green Shift will not increase the gas tax, and have a minimal impact on producer costs. Stop being a Chicken Little. — Garth

By Jim on 06.15.08 9:12 am

Garth, China doesn’t believe in AGW, how is Dion going to stop them from just undoing any reductions made here by building more coal plants over there. If Canada gives them the Kyoto credits Dion that wants, who’s to say they won’t just use the money to build more coal power plants?

Gord.

Carbon tariffs are one option. Read an interesting report on same by Jeff Rubin, elsewhere in today’s comments. Or, we could just give up. — Garth

#61 tim pellett on 06.15.08 at 10:46 am

Since the neo cons got into power here is what happened to the refiner margins and has nothing to do with the price of oil
Gas margins have gone from 11.1 per litre to 15.3 cents a litre
Diesel margins have gone from 15.4 cents per litre to 20.6 cents per litre
Home heating fuel has gone from 11.9 cents a litre to 18.0 cents a litre
That alone out weighs the GST deductions and put right into the pack pockets of big oil

#62 Catherine-also on 06.15.08 at 10:54 am

By Leasa on 06.15.08 9:11 am

Why don’t you look into this topic? Study Sweden, for example. Sweden’s average winter temperatures are similar to Canada’s, and they have very similar fractions of GDP from argriculture, industry and services. Difference is that Sweden got serious in 1990 and implemented a carbon tax and now has both a carbon tax and cap and trade. They have surpassed both the Kyoto target and the EU target. They did all this while maintaining economic growth. In fact, when they implemented the carbon tax their economy was struggling and they did it in a way to help with that too, while still maintaining strong social programs. Btw, we could also learn a lot from Sweden on water and pesticide use.

Harper and Layton have not been useful on this topic, both using the same line that you use, Leasa, saying Canada is cold. Don’t assume they know what they are talking about — they are not speaking truth and facts and are not looking out for the long-term prosperity of Canada, but are trying to advance their own short-term political agendas. Do some research and you will find even cold countries with struggling economies can make substantial progress on the environmental and sustainability fronts using carbon tax shifts.

#63 jwp on 06.15.08 at 11:02 am

I think a good label for the Conservative approach might be called something like the “Tax On Everything” plan.

By Dube on 06.15.08 9:22 am

To late that phrase has been already been taken, maybe you should try thinking of a new one,

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 10:27 am

How about “Richistan” I know already taken…read Frank in the WSJ…this is the philosphy that Harper & Co endorse. Make the CEO, especially oil CEOs the least taxed and most highly paid in the world. The productivity of the US over the last decade has risen 76%, real wages for workers 2%….but look at the salaries of the CEOs….this is the right wing agenda!

#64 jwp on 06.15.08 at 11:09 am

The mere idea/thought/suggestion of adding a ‘carbon tax’ scares the crap out of most Canadians, and rightly so.

Leasa

Especially if you have anything to do with it, you alarmist chick. — Garth

By Leasa on 06.15.08 9:11 am

Most CPC people maybe, but most Canadians, I think that is a stretch, especially once the full plan is out.
CPC support the CEOs, most others support workers…most people want a greener world for their children & grandchildren and would gladly have a plan that is revenue neutral to work toward this…

#65 Janice on 06.15.08 at 11:12 am

“The Liberals would hit polluters immediately, cut **** from taxes and ensure nobody’s worse off for doing the right thing.”

posted by Garth Turner on 06.14.08 @ 8:50 pm

Garth, you know whats really scary is that you have been able to convince 10 or so posters to your blog that you are telling the truth. By end of summer Dion may have been able to double that number.

How are Canadians going to be better off when tax on industry raises the costs of all goods and services in an economy already suffering with inflationary pressures on all goods and services from high energy costs.

High taxes, high inflation, higher energy costs, higher dollar, fewer jobs, and an income tax cut for the unemployed. Wow, what a plan.

After all that there is no evidence that GHGs will decline.

So the liberal plan is to put Canadians through the ringer to squeeze more money from them in an effort to accomplish nothing. That outta get the attention of the electorate during their summer vacation.

#66 Jim on 06.15.08 at 11:18 am

Carbon tariffs are one option. Read an interesting report on same by Jeff Rubin, elsewhere in today’s comments. Or, we could just give up. — Garth

Great idea about tariffs! The government wins again! Are these going to be ‘revenue neutral’ to make up for the price of everything we import going up 30%? Or maybe just send the money back to China to buy Kyoto credits and develop their green economy.

But you know, too bad nobody thought about this tariff idea when it was time to protect Ontario/Quebec manufacturing from slave/child labour in 3rd world countries.

Is it the same geniuses that are now trying to get back in power so that they can mismanage what’s left of our economy? Oh, actually, yes it is! Yey!

#67 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 11:25 am

Or, we could just give up. — Garth

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 10:33 am

Or, we could just face the fact the AGW doesn’t exist and put our efforts into cleaning up pollution.

Gord.

#68 Harry S on 06.15.08 at 11:27 am

The Green Shift will not increase the gas tax, and have a minimal impact on producer costs. Stop being a Chicken Little. — Garth
………………………….

If the Green Shift is a wash, where is the motivation to reduce GHGs coming from? If I am going to get an income tax break to offset my carbon footprint, why should I bother?? Are you depending on my altruistic feeeelings to help make the Green Shift a success at reducing Canada’s excess GHGs?? Is the Green Shift going to be a failure by intention, or will there be targets that must be met or else the carbon tax is increased???

30% GHG reduction by 2012 .. is that going to be the target in Dion’s Green Shift plan .. Canada’s Kyoto commitments that were ignored by the Chretien-Martin-Dion governments through 10 years of neglect ..??

What if Canadians ignore or are unable to reduce their GHG emissions .. will a Dion Liberal government then resort to buying Kyoto Carbon Credits from China, India, others.. to mitigate our 30% excess GHGs??

The Green Shift targets will define the true intentions of this plan. That’s what I’m waiting for because that will be the cruncher.

Ironically, Liberal Dion is proposing a carbon tax to mitigate a Liberal GHG excess accumulated over 10 years of Liberal government. This also raises the question of the rationale for an income tax reduction .. election carrot maybe ..??!!!

#69 Catherine on 06.15.08 at 11:29 am

You can see from this report, that what Catherine on 06.15.08 7:05 am is referring to is the emissions due to coal, not “total man made emissions” as she claims.

By Catherine-also on 06.15.08 8:59 am

So who makes the coal combustions? Some fairy? Man makes this.

#70 Kerry Busse on 06.15.08 at 11:31 am

Greg,
Just a few facts about geothermal. We installed geothermal when we built our house two years ago. It is a 2900 sq ft, attached partly heated garage. We did not hook up the natural gas line to the house, our heating and hot water is entirely through geothermal and electricity. It cost us just short of 50 thousand for the geothermal system, including the pit digging and back filling. Our electricity bill in the winter averages between 6 and 700 dollars. The majority of our electricity use runs the three heat pumps and hot water domestic tank as geothermal can only heat water to about 105. We used very good insulation, triple pane windows, and ICF foundation, so it is an efficient house and our electricity bills are still that high. So how many Canadians are in that kind of position to fork over that much money to retrofit, and sustain a huge increase in their electricity bills, esp. if rates skyrocket.
Kerry

#71 Catherine on 06.15.08 at 11:33 am

The Green Shift will not increase the gas tax, and have a minimal impact on producer costs. Stop being a Chicken Little. — Garth

Of course Liberals are not exactly forthcoming as usual. Garth, you know as well as anyone that you don’t have to apply a DIRECT tax on gas to increase the gas prices from Carbon Tax applied on refiners or oil producers! For a change please be honest and forthcoming…. it would go a long way in restoring some credibility in politicians!

#72 All Dark on 06.15.08 at 11:38 am

The conservative party website has gone dark. All morning. Taking this Green Shift thing a bit too far, aren’t we Garth?

#73 Canuck on 06.15.08 at 11:43 am

My hubby’s hobby was reducing heating costs for our home. Unfortunately, with Canada being at such a Northerly latitude, there isn’t enough sun for solar. And where we live, there isn’t enough constant wind. Geothermal pumps rely on electricity…so that’s not viable either. The best we could do was build and move into a smaller home, insulate it to the max, install a high efficiently gas furnace and wait for technology to come up with an answer. We updated all of our appliances and use only those rated Energy efficient. We do try our best and grow our own vegetables–but there is no cost benefit to growing your own, however, there are great strides toward more vitamins and much, better taste.

Life is a tradeoff–one has to measure benefits against disadvantages, with criteria placed on a series of what you hold as important.

We recycle, compost, and don’t drive gasoline hogs. In other words, like millions of Canadians, we just do the best we can.

#74 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 11:45 am

“So eventually I think we could end up seeing a carbon tariff or some type of effort by [developed] countries to require the suppliers of imported goods to meet certain performance standards with respect to how their products are manufactured in terms of carbon intensity,” he said. “But I think we’re quite a long way from that now.”

[email protected]

By TS on 06.15.08 8:20 am

Garth, this is pie in the sky stuff, China isn’t going to go along with this, and the developing world doesn’t carry a big enough stick to make them. In other words China has not bought into the AGW doomsday scam.

Gord.

#75 Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 at 11:52 am

Happy Father’s Day

On a day when we reflect on our Dads it is fitting to discuss the future. So I wonder what my Dad would think about green shift plans and turning the corner frameworks. He worked hard all his life, a dedicated family man who never missed a school play or graduation.

I would explain that my generation must step up to leave a greener legacy for his grand-children and great grandchildren. He’d ask some pointed questions like “How much is it going to cost? Will it really make a difference for working people? “

After an extensive discussion as he usually did he’d stop. “You’re really passionate about this” and never tell me who he voted for in an election. But this time, I think I could convince him that this is the most important policy since JFK vowed to put a man on the moon. Dad was always inspired by the Apollo missions and watched all of them.

If you can put a man on the moon Dad – you can leave a greener legacy.

#76 Harry S on 06.15.08 at 11:56 am

China clearly overtakes U.S. as leading emitter of climate-warming gases

International Herald Tribune – June 13, 2008

China has now clearly overtaken the United States as the world’s leading emitter of climate-warming gases, a new study has found. The increasing emissions from China – up 8 percent in the past year – accounted for two-thirds of the growth in global greenhouse gas emissions in 2007, the study found.

The report, released Friday by the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, is an annual study. Last year, for the first time, the researchers found that China had edged ahead of the United States as the world’s leading emitter.

More at:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/13/business/emit.php
………………………………

Sooo, Garth … why should guilt-ridden Canadians bear such an angst over our puny 2.3% contribution to total global GHGs … while China, India, USA are not governed by the Kyoto treaty..??

Do you think Canadians are so guilt-ridden, so stupid, so Liberal .. that they will eagerly accept Dion’s punitive Green Shift plan…??!!!

#77 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 12:00 pm

Global Warming – the new religion.

Stephen B. Chapman, associate professor of the Old Testament at Duke University Divinity School, says the Bible has a lot to say about man’s relationship to the eco-system.
“In the Bible there is an essential relationship between social justice and right worship and ecology,” said Chapman. “The Bible has an intense interest in ecology.”
Religious scholars are beginning to pay more attention to what the Bible has to say about man’s destruction of the environment and its relationship to natural catastrophes
“The land bearing the cost of global warming is new, but the connection between what humankind does and what societies they form and the health of the land and agriculture is as old as the Bible itself,” he said

Gord.

#78 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 12:21 pm

Man,them piss yella’ shirts sure are attractive .

#79 jwp on 06.15.08 at 12:40 pm

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a36702d3-74a6-44d7-b50e-5746c2f27c18

Who supports our women?

#80 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 12:40 pm

John Duddy.In addition to your little post earlier concerning the vast amounts of oil in Alaska.
If you add that info to this info things kinda take on a certain degree of logic.In addition to Alaska,Chavez is sitting on the highest amount of tar sands oil in the world,not to mention Iraq’s untapped reserves..This link is very interesting.

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/01/23/greg-palast/

#81 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 12:44 pm


“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

“These sprays, dusts, and aerosols are now applied almost universally to
farms, gardens, forests, and homes – nonselective chemicals that have the
power to kill every insect, the ‘good’ and the ‘bad,’ to still the song of birds
and the leaping of fish in the streams, to coat the leaves with a deadly film,
and to linger on in soil – all this though the intended target may be only a few
weeds or insects. Can anyone believe it is possible to lay down such a barrage
of poisons on the surface of the earth without making it unfit for all life? They
should not be called ‘insecticides,’ but ‘biocides.'”

Rachel Carson, Silent Spring

“I think the environment should be put in the category of our national
security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad.
Otherwise what is there to defend?”

“We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to
survive.”
-Albert Einstein

“Water and air, the two essential fluids on which all life depends, have become
global garbage cans.”

“We don’t have to protect the environment — the Second Coming is at hand.”

#82 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 12:52 pm

Under the UN’s Clean Development Mechanism, a small chemical firm in rural Rajasthan received 3.8 million “carbon credits” to burn off greenhouse gases that are a by-product of those used in fridges. Over the next decade the company will be able to sell these for a staggering $500 million to firms in the developed world, so they can continue “polluting”.

Yet, as the company cheerfully explained, it would have bought the incinerator used to burn off those gases anyway. In other words, the $500 million is a free gift, handed over to achieve precisely nothing. Hardly surprisingly, 3,000 more firms are queuing up to join a bonanza already worth $10 billion a year.

By comparison, Swift’s Academy of Lagado – where they tried to extract sunbeams from cucumbers, to provide warmth in cold summers – seems a temple of reason.

Geniuses at work.

Read it all here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/15/do1502.xml

Gord.

#83 Leasa on 06.15.08 at 1:33 pm

By Ted Browne on 06.15.08 10:16 am

Well Said. L

#84 brain on 06.15.08 at 1:45 pm

By sheila on 06.14.08 9:51 pm

“I have come to the conclusion that this present minority government may well turn into one of the most successful, if not THE most successful minority government in Canadian history.

If it were doing 1/4 as bad as this blog suggests, the Liberals would have toppled this government long ago, like a year and a half ago. They would have acted long ago if they were half-way serious.” – Sheila

So… what you are saying is that the Liberals at any time after the previous election could, at a snap of a finger, form a fully functional government, rearing to go, no need to rebuild, to reorganize, to restructure, all is well across the nation in Liberal land, no need for new key personel, Ad scam is a snap of a finger to get over in Quebec, no need to rebuild national confidence in them, no need for a leadership convention, no need to find a true vision no need for rebuilding of any sort, just run the same old blood and all is well?

Uh-huh.

And I suppose the little abuses like trying to buy elections with our money is fine with you. Ethics aside, it comes down to policy. Please share with us why you believe Harper policy is the “best we’ve ever had”.

Nice campaigning for Jack, I will say that, constantly trying to take this “best government we’ve seen in a century” down. Brent Fullard is right. Ol’ Jack has spent more time campaigning against the Libs than he has the Cons, even while the Libs are in opposition. But hey, you’ve got a right to your own opinion, lol ;-)

#85 brain on 06.15.08 at 1:46 pm

By Brian Wilson on 06.14.08 10:48 pm

Another brilliant genius attacking a party and a plan without hearing the plan and reeking of double standards themselves. Good luck with that working for you Brian (chuckles)

#86 brain on 06.15.08 at 1:48 pm

By kpn on 06.15.08 5:44 am

Heat to water to air furnaces have been the most efficient that I’ve ever run into as someone who cleaned furnaces and heating systems in my young 20’s. Over what must have been thousands of systems I saw, the cheapest to run were heat to water to air exchange. Pellet stoves are a cheap alternative, but not as GHG friendly. Have a great day yourself, KPN!

By Leasa on 06.15.08 9:11 am

Outside of her conclusions, Leasa asks one good question. “How do you expect CNDs to live with out-of-the-world fuel and heating costs in our climate?” – Leasa

Back in the day, Trudeau saw the same thing in Canada and came up with the federal program of grants to insulate Canadian homes. Anyone remember it? When beans were finally counted, it paid off huge. The program was expensive, something like 20 billion to impliment and the oil and gas companies and the NCC lobbied hard against it, and the PC’s railed against it, all claiming it would cost jobs and throw people out of work and that it was too expensive.

Y’all remember that program?

Its time for a repeat only this time, not on insulation so much as the conversion to heat to water to air furnaces. These little suckers are 250% more efficient or more, depending on the existing heat to air furnaces they replace.

Garth, please take 15 minutes and look into it. If you are too busy, I’ll take a few hours at some point and look into it more heavily myself. People simply aren’t aware of the choices to save money here. Just as insulation paid for itself in the majority of cases within 2 to 5 years, so too, will conversions of furnaces to heat to water to air pay for themselves at the same rates. There are few investments with a better return than this, a win win in all respects and the feds should be seriously looking into a program like this to crunch numbers and impliment if they want to generate tax revenue to spend wisely.

#87 Jason on 06.15.08 at 1:49 pm

Garth, thanks for uncovering the yellow shirt patrol and for trying to keep a broad perspective.

One of the things that frustrates me about the current government is their constant attempts to ‘frame’/one side/dumb down issues in an attempt to create a 42% (give or take) support level for majority government. This is a complex issue that deserves a serious discussion. Yellow shirts and index card slogans do not cut it.

#88 brain on 06.15.08 at 1:50 pm

By Catherine on 06.15.08 6:32 am

So when Stephane Dion launches “the Green Carbon Tax” schtick on Wednesday, will he use his staffers and the CBC? – Catherine

Not for direct advertizing on taxpayers dollars, they won’t. Its news, Catherine, of which all the majors will cover it when Dions plan comes out.

“But, seriously, my family and I have practiced good environmental practices for decades (smaller home, upgraded windows, doors, higher insulation, cloth diapers, smaller cars, less takeout, more home cooked meals that are prepared for days of eating, stir-frys, lowering temp in winter-18 degrees, using central air sparingly in summer – generally about 10 days at 25 degrees, using lighting sparingly, etc. etc.).

So now Stephane Dion seems fit to punish me and my family by goughing me with this Carbon Tax.” – Catherine

Thats quite the extrapolation… and serious? All I read from this clip is someone who’s proud to do their share until they have to sacrifice monetarily for it. You know, conserve to save $$$… and then come up with some fear mongering tripe about how you’ll get personally taxed for it when a plan has not yet come out and whine about sacrifice if it actually does hurt you financially to save on energy.

Why is it that Harper supporters are always the same with the “it must benefit me personally always or I’m against it” theme? Its so old…

“Tell me Garth, even if he keeps his promise of lowering taxes – will he not federally tax anyone under 40,000$? Because, by all accounts every single thing that my family will buy will have this dirct and indirect Carbon Tax (food, clothing, gas for cars, heating, lighting, etc) – hence increasing our personal costs substantially.

It leads me to believe that Stephane Dion and the Liberals are just addicted to MY dollars and want to punish every one in their path.” – Catherine

You make the perfect Harper party poster girl, to be sure. Good luck with the Harper party giving you personal tax exemptions up to $40,000.
And good luck trying to convince the public that a tax on C02 and a tax on oil & gas by refined quantity is the same thing.

Catherine, I keep waiting for you to actually say stuff thats, y’know, true… should I just give up on you?

#89 brain on 06.15.08 at 1:53 pm

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 10:33 am

And more to the point, why should Canada bother to search out the model examplar, a completely functional model that is friendly to existing businesses in the adjustment to cut back on pollution/consumption while at the same time, offers conservation incentives to consumers directly?

(not addressing this to you now, Gord) Think about it, children of Harperville. In a world where oil and gas companies are making obscene profits of which few if any of you are complaining, the U.S. multinational oil companies of the tarsands for example, can’t spend a couple bucks a barrel to reduce their C02 levels by half? Do you, as shareholders, greedy or otherwise, really believe this will effect their profit margin’s “bottom line”? C’mon.

Its sad to see Harper spend 250 million on direct grants to oil, gas and coal companies on C02 sequestering when firstly, oil and gas companies can and should be legislated to pick up the tab themselves and secondly, when the technology isn’t proven. Why should we as taxpayers, be forced to pay for industrial pollution restrictions and their own self driven wasteful consumption? Do we subsidize manufacturers to clean up their act?

Thats the Conservative “version” of “tax shifting” by the way, and a pretty ugly version at that.

#90 David Halfkenny on 06.15.08 at 1:59 pm

If this blog is representative of the Liberal Green Plan and the attempt made to sell this to Canadians by using “*****” to peak their curiosty.

This has to be some sort of a joke !! The brainchild who felt necessary to convey this bunch of nothing cannot be serious. After the sixth paragraph it read like the comics. I hope the Dion staff did not okay this load of nothing to be passed on to real people. It was more suited for aliens. If this is the new method of communications of the party the Liberals are in worst shape than I thought. How can anyone take you guys serious.

#91 William Dahl on 06.15.08 at 2:34 pm

KPN

Check out pellet stoves as an alternative to wood. We have one and during the winter it reduces our electric home heating bill by at least half. At 30 below 0 our furnace only comes on about once an hour unless there is a high wind. At 40 below I turn the furnace on for haf an hour every once in a while because while the air temperature is fine the walls get very cold and starts to offset any heating advantages.

Basically you are burning tiny compressed pellets of sawdust at high temperatures with little smoke or ash as a result. Certainly any emissions are less than from burning coal.

If it works well in the north it should work for you The cost is about $7 a day in pellets which would likely be only about $5 down south with less shipping.

#92 Catherine on 06.15.08 at 2:45 pm

And good luck trying to convince the public that a tax on C02 and a tax on oil & gas by refined quantity is the same thing.

By brain on 06.15.08 1:50 pm

brain, I wish you would use yours. If Stephane Dion applies his Carbon Tax on the oil producers, don’t you think that this cost will passed to us – the consumer? The oil producers are not charities, they will not absorb the cost (their shareholders would not like it).

brain, think through ideas – it will help you see past the “we will make mega money” crap.

Oh btw, the Conservatives don’t have to exempt us for the first 40,000$. Unless they are stupid and try to implement Dion’s Carbon Tax Scam.

Why 40,000$ – because I did some rough calcs – and it would probably cost us about 2,000$ or more a year for direct and indirect cost of Stephane Dion’s scam.

#93 William Dahl on 06.15.08 at 2:50 pm

Charles Oxley

Your B.C. government must be nuts if they actually gave title to the land to logging companies. I always thought that they have title to cut trees on a given piece of forest and for a set number of years but that the actual owners of the land was the provence.

If they were actually smart they would use this title for blackmail purposes. I.E. if a sawmill shuts down then title to the trees is suspended or lost. This means no shipping raw logs without processing in B.C. This wold also maintains a large inventory of trees available for any company that comes along and wants to reopen or build a new sawmill. It is definately time we start playing hardball with corporations.

#94 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 3:00 pm

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 10:33 am

And more to the point, why should Canada bother to search out the model examplar, a completely functional model that is friendly to existing businesses in the adjustment to cut back on pollution/consumption while at the same time, offers conservation incentives to consumers directly?

By brain on 06.15.08 1:53 pm

Brain, I think we are already at the point where most people are conserving, it’s because of higher prices, as heating bills go up people look at ways of trying to lower their consumption to offset the higher prices. Why go to the expense of creating a whole new tax structure for a problem that is already being addressed.

Gord.

#95 kpn on 06.15.08 at 3:21 pm

By the way – Happy Father’s Day to all you dads – it’s quite a responsibility when decisions you make affect your children and grandchildren in the future – take it seriously.

I don’t have my dad anymore but he was the one who taught me to think for myself and not be lead by the nose by anyone. With all going on, I sure appreciate his wise advice.

Again, Happy Father’s Day.

By slg on 06.15.08 7:56 am

Happy Father’s Day to you too and all the fathers on this forum. Mine died in ’82 but we called to wish my FIL who was celebrating it with his youngest son & family.

My Father sounds like yours SLG.

Enjoy the rest of your day Dads.

I rec’d this old ‘joke’ yesterday :-) which, in my generation, is quite apt. Actually, I also do the BBQ’ng.

BBQ RULES

We are about to enter the summer and BBQ season. Therefore it is important to refresh your memory on the etiquette of this sublime outdoor cooking activity, as it’s the only type of cooking a ‘real’ man will do, probably because there is an element of danger involved.

When a man volunteers to do the BBQ the following chain of events are put into motion:

Routine…

(1) The woman buys the food.
(2) The woman makes the salad, prepares the vegetables, and makes dessert.
(3) The woman prepares the meat for cooking, places it on a tray along with the necessary cooking utensils and sauces, and takes it to the man who is lounging beside the grill – beer in hand.

Here comes the important part:

(4) THE MAN PLACES THE MEAT ON THE GRILL.

More routine….

(5) The woman goes inside to organize the plates and cutlery.
(6) The woman comes out to tell the man that the meat is burning. He thanks her and asks if she will bring another beer while he deals with the situation.

Important again:

(7) THE MAN TAKES THE MEAT OFF THE GRILL AND HANDS IT TO THE WOMAN.

More routine….

(8) The woman prepares the plates, salad, bread, utensils, napkins, sauces, and brings them to the table.
(9) After eating, the woman clears the table and does the dishes.

And most important of all:
(10) Everyone PRAISES the MAN and THANKS HIM for his cooking efforts.
(11) The man asks the woman how she enjoyed ‘her night off.’ And, upon seeing her annoyed reaction, concludes that there’s just no pleasing some women….

#96 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 3:24 pm

Why Are Bees Disappearing?

Maybe it’s the yellow shirts,silly as it is,but something noticable and not so silly is happening.
What the hell is happening with the bees?Or lack thereoff.
Out back of my modest dwelling there are two gardens.Lots of flowers,plant life,but no bees.Unless 2 counts.
I might ask Leasa since she is in the farming sector.Have you noticed a decline in the bee population?
These 5 reasons are probable causes,

Cell phone transmissions, as reported in the UK
– Pesticides, as reported in the Palm Beach Post
– Viral infections or Fungus, as reported in the Great Falls Tribune
– Genetically Modified Plants, as reported to a recent Congressional hearing
– Magnetic Pole Reversal, as described at Wikipedia and on the science program Nova.
But whatever the reason,the consequence
for humanity is rife with disaster.As one writer put it.
The message of the bees is to let us know that we can no longer regard ourselves as separate from the natural world, but are instrumental in fostering or detracting from the future life of that world. The present demise of bee colonies, everywhere, may be telling us that there is nothing independent of anything else on the planet, and that just as we care for our relationship with our own children, we must care for our relationship with the earth’s children as well.

#97 slg on 06.15.08 at 3:25 pm

About those ugly yellow (there are nicer yellows to pick) you know what they say – don’t eat tht yellow snow(job).

We should take the names of the staffers – they should be reprimanded for playing on our taxpayer dollars.

#98 kpn on 06.15.08 at 3:41 pm

‘Of course Europe can and has adjusted to higher fuel costs! In Europe, I can get on a fast commuter train (that’s ALWAYS on time) and go anywhere I want. Most European countries have a much warmer climate. My family in Holland can get to work and school on a bicycle, no problem. As for the farmers who must use a lot of fuel…subsidy. No problem. ‘

The mere idea/thought/suggestion of adding a ‘carbon tax’ scares the crap out of most Canadians, and rightly so.

Leasa

Leasa – Holland has always been known for its bicycle riders. Its a way of life and its also a very flat & small country. Europe’s fuel costs have always been much higher than N.A.’s and the car mfgrs. have, for many decades, responded with smaller cars, many diesel. True, their infrastructure – highways and commuter rail is superb, mostly due to their population base.

‘How do you expect CNDs to live with out-of-the-world fuel and heating costs in our climate? I think if we don’t get this under control, we will see a lot more seniors eating cat food in order to stay warm, and forget getting to those doctor’s appointments.’

Do you honestly Leasa think Harper has a plan to get this under control. No I didn’t think so.

I’ll await Dion’s plan & hope it includes incentives to promote green technology & alternative fuel sources rather than the Harperite scare mongering before it is even announced. Most scientists and enviromentalists, not just Cdn ones, have said this govt. will just increase carbon emissions with their ‘intensity’ based program. We know they depend on Big Oil’s support.

#99 Catherine-also on 06.15.08 at 4:09 pm

I like Dion’s idea to have the Auditor General monitor the carbon tax shift to ensure it is revenue neutral. This is a good strategy to counter Harper’s misinformation. I also like the idea of combining plans to reduce poverty with the carbon shift plan. Again there are models in Scandinavia and Europe which show that this succeeds if you get the details right.

btw, this information just appeared in a CP article.

#100 kpn on 06.15.08 at 4:16 pm

Hi kpn on 06.15.08 5:44 am,

Instead of burning anything that makes greenhouse gases to heat and cool our homes and building, we should all be incuraged to switch to geo-therm.

All new homes and building should have to have this cleaner heating a/c installed in the first place.

You’ll be glade you did as the oil and gas prices keep climbing and when we run out.

By Greg W., Oakville on 06.15.08 8:34 am

Greg, agree geo-thermal is one way to go. We looked at one about 18 yrs ago, but it quite aways from our work, requiring 2 cars ’cause we worked in diff. directions. We chose instead to divide our travelling, closer to our work places. In an ideal world, had we built a home we would have gone geothermal. BTW, we don’t needair conditioning. We have deciduous & evergreen trees. We might experience 1, maybe 2 wks of hot/humid weather and downstairs its always refreshing. We live above several lakes and the ocean is nearby. Our next home, if ever, will be a small townhouse or condo!

#101 jwp on 06.15.08 at 4:19 pm

Is it the same geniuses that are now trying to get back in power so that they can mismanage what’s left of our economy? Oh, actually, yes it is! Yey!

By Jim on 06.15.08 11:18 am

The ecomomy was in excellent shape until the CPC took over, so it you think it is a mess now, call Stephen Harper!

#102 jwp on 06.15.08 at 4:21 pm

So the liberal plan is to put Canadians through the ringer to squeeze more money from them in an effort to accomplish nothing. That outta get the attention of the electorate during their summer vacation.

By Janice on 06.15.08 11:12 am

Obviously this dingbat can’t read…I believe it was to be revenue neutral…
BTW…now you will come out with some statement about not believing the Liberals? Well, Harper has the long nose now!

#103 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 4:44 pm

Message to Peter McKay.Please try and send along a different photo of Karzai to National Newswatch.As the one they keep showing with that pointed finger is getting as weary as Van Loan not answering questions.

Unable to win in Afghanistan, the frustrated western powers are turning on Pakistan, a nation of 165 million. Pakistanis are bitterly opposed to the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan and their nation’s subjugation to U.S. policy under dictator Musharraf.

“We just need to occupy Pakistan’s tribal territory,” insists the Pentagon, “to stop its Pashtun tribes from supporting and sheltering Taliban.” But a U.S.-led invasion of FATA simply will push pro-Taliban Pashtun militants deeper into Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier province, drawing western troops ever deeper into Pakistan. Already overextended, western forces will be stretched even thinner and clashes with Pakistan’s tough regular army may be inevitable.

Widening the Afghan War into Pakistan is military stupidity on a grand scale, and political madness. But Washington and its obedient allies seem hell-bent on charging into a wider regional war that no number of heavy bombers will win.

Garth when the Liberals voted to extend Canada’s mission till 2011 did you not realize that this might happen???

I do agree that to put a noticable dent in Taliban operations you have to go inside Pakistan.BUT….. The outgoing supreme commander, U.S. Gen. Dan McNeill, recently admitted he would need 400,000 soldiers to pacify Afghanistan.
And where in the hell are they going to come from?
They had enough problems trying to get an extra 1000 to help out the Canadians.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Margolis_Eric/2008/06/15/5880581.php

Does anyone realize what the cost in lives,not only Canadian, will be if this happens?
165 million Pakistanis will not stand for it.And no more should 33 million Canadians.Talk about being duped..

#104 Tim N on 06.15.08 at 4:46 pm

brain, I wish you would use yours. If Stephane Dion applies his Carbon Tax on the oil producers, don’t you think that this cost will passed to us – the consumer? The oil producers are not charities, they will not absorb the cost (their shareholders would not like it).

By Catherine on 06.15.08 2:45 pm

Do you know how commodities work? Ask Leasa – she can tell you (as it’s the same for wheat, etc…)

If the selling price per barrel of oil is $135 – that means it the government adds, say $100 of taxes, to a barrel of oil (produced) – the company can only charge $135 per barrel – as that is the buy rate.

That means – it won’t hit us as consumers – only hit the company – and they will have to decrease the cost of their INPUTS to increase their profit.

Also – in a free market society – the only way that producers can pass their costs on to consumers is if we allow ourselves to pay more. Buy from the lowest cost seller – and they won’t be able to pass on the costs – unless we let them.

#105 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 4:48 pm

Make the CEO, especially oil CEOs the least taxed and most highly paid in the world. The productivity of the US over the last decade has risen 76%, real wages for workers 2%….but look at the salaries of the CEOs….this is the right wing agenda!

By jwp on 06.15.08 11:02 am

Interesting that you quote statistics from US productivity. Do you have any Canadian statistics that you could use to make your point?

Gord.

#106 Harry S on 06.15.08 at 4:49 pm

Dion wants auditor general to monitor carbon tax

The Canadian Press – Sun. Jun. 15 2008

OTTAWA — Stephane Dion will deploy Canada’s auditor general to backstop his claim that a Liberal carbon tax will be revenue neutral, not the massive tax grab depicted by the Tories.

Revenue neutrality is the central pillar of the Liberal leader’s complex plan, to be unveiled later this week, for putting a price on carbon.

Under the plan, the federal treasury would not keep a dime of the roughly $14 billion in revenue the proposed carbon tax would generate. Rather, the money would be shifted back to consumers in the form of offsetting cuts to personal income and corporate taxes.

But Dion is not going to ask Canadians to simply trust him on that.

The plan includes a promise of legislation that would require the independent auditor general to review the tax shift annually and to verify publicly whether it is living up to its advance billing as revenue neutral.

“We will prove this,” Liberal finance critic John McCallum said in an interview.

“I know politicians aren’t always believed, and when we say it’s revenue neutral people will be skeptical and they’ll refer back to the GST. But we will have the auditor general verify each year it is revenue neutral”.

In the absence of any details, the Tories have been having a field day painting Dion’s plan as a massive “tax on everything.” They’ve mocked the leader’s pledge of revenue neutrality as “weasel words” that can’t be believed given the Liberal party’s history of reneging on a onetime promise to scrap the GST.

Jason Kenney, the Tory point man on the issue, has summed up Dion’s plan this way: “Hold onto your wallets because he wants to raise your taxes.”

Liberal environment critic David McGuinty believes the Tories’ “stupid, cheap, infantile” attacks will backfire as Canadians compare them to Dion’s “thoughtful, sincere” approach to the planet’s most pressing issue of climate change.

But Dion’s proposal is as much an economic plan as an environmental one.

Quite apart from the global warming crisis, Liberals point out that soaring energy prices and finite fossil fuel supplies are causing increasing pain for consumers and mounting economic dislocation in the auto sector and other “smokestack” industries. The sooner Canadians adjust to those new economic realities, the smaller the negative economic impact and the better positioned Canada will be to take the lead in creating the “green collar” jobs of the future, they contend.

To that end, Liberals say Dion’s plan is aimed at helping wean Canadians off fossil fuels as painlessly as possible. It will include a host of tax measures — from refundable tax credits to tax incentives and direct tax cuts — that will be skewed heavily in favour of lower- and middle-income Canadians.

While Dion has promised no additional tax at the gas pumps, his plan will increase the cost of diesel and home heating fuels and electricity. Liberals argue that the NDP and Tory plans to cap the emissions of big polluters would ultimately have the same effect as companies pass the costs down to consumers.

But unlike any other party, Liberals boast that Dion’s plan is the only one that will actually help offset those costs.

Insiders say Dion and his inner circle have agonized over details, trying to ensure that no one is unfairly penalized by the carbon tax. Various measures have been built in to protect those who can’t afford or can’t access alternative energy sources, such as poor, elderly and rural Canadians, or those whose livelihoods are dependent on fossil fuels, such as truck drivers.

Dion’s previously announced proposals for reducing poverty by 30 per cent — and child poverty by 50 per cent _ in five years will also be wrapped into the carbon tax plan. Those proposals include enriching the working income and child tax benefits, extending the child tax credit and raising the Guaranteed Income Supplement for the poorest seniors.

“Every taxpayer will be better off. That’s the Dion goal,” said Liberal MP Garth Turner, who’s been helping with the communications strategy for the plan.

McCallum is a bit more circumspect.

“I cannot say to you that no Canadian will be unharmed by this” he said.

“What I can say is that we’ve done our very best to ensure that the most vulnerable Canadians will not fall through the cracks and they will have assistance to make the necessary adjustments.

“But the whole planet has to adjust to higher energy prices and costs, and dwindling supply relative to demand for oil, and it’s not going to be totally painless for every human being.”

#107 Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 at 4:52 pm

By Ted Browne on 06.15.08 3:24 pm

Dear Ted
Yes I think bees,those pollinating maniacs are in danger. For me, on a anecdotely basis thought I had lost my wild bees. They did come but their numbers were diminished.

But I digress, I think it was Albert Einstein that concluded and I paraphrase we would be in big trouble if we lose bees.

The problem is, we are so separate from our natural world that we can’t see the forest for the trees. My love of this country is the daily view I have of birds and the sea – I know I am very lucky.

If the only thing we consider is the commerce of today and not planet earth we face a very uncertain future.

#108 Bill-Muskoka on 06.15.08 at 4:53 pm

Harper, Layton, Dion, May – NONE of them are going to tell me what I think of a plan – I will decide for MYSELF.

By slg on 06.15.08 7:41 am

Add my name to that group. I still ask ‘When will the Parliament pass REAL LAWS that throw these polluting bastards in prison, take their assets, and make it REAL CONSEQUENCES?’

NO NEW TAXES! Read OUR lips Oddawahahaha!

Ring the bell when they do please.

#109 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 4:54 pm

I see the “Flat Earth” Global Warming deniers are in full swarm mode today .
You go into a community and they will vote 80 percent to 20 percent in favour of a tougher Clean Air Act, but if you ask them to devote 20 minutes a year to having their car emissions inspected, they will vote 80 to 20 against it. We are a long way in this country from taking individual responsibility for the environmental problem.

#110 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 4:59 pm

How can anyone take you guys serious.

By David Halfkenny on 06.15.08 1:59 pm

Easy,we are heavily armed .

#111 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 5:04 pm


For Bill :

One of the first laws against air pollution came in 1300 when King Edward I decreed the death penalty for burning of coal. At least one execution for that offense is recorded. But economics triumphed over health considerations, and air pollution became an appalling problem in England.

#112 Harry S on 06.15.08 at 5:11 pm

Dion Liberal $14 Billion Carbon tax ..!!!

Now we have a number to work with.

Garth, could you clarify it for us … is that the annual take or is it the total amount that would be generated over the time when the target must be achieved.. 2012 perhaps ..??

I certainly look forward to reading Dion’s Green Shift plan hopefully this week, and learn what targets he is setting for Canadians .. time targets and GHG targets .. because that will be the crux of the plan.

#113 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 5:15 pm

I see the “Flat Earth” Global Warming deniers are in full swarm mode today .

By Men With Hats on 06.15.08 4:54 pm

Did you want to comment on how only 13% of the temperature collection stations in North America fall within standards set by the IPCC.

Skepticism is actually a highly regarded trait.

Gord.

#114 Blair on 06.15.08 at 5:15 pm

Garth,

One of your quotes from this post…”Eventually it was revealed these were staffers for Conservative MPs, which means they were campaigning while being on the public payroll. So much for ethics.”

C’mon Garth, let’s be fair. I, too, was walking the streets of downtown Ottawa on Monday morning and I was approached by those staffers. Those staffers were being photographed and filmed, I might ad, by other staffers from the hill wearing “Stop Harper” pins.

When one of those yellow shirted people asked me if I wanted a brochure, a “stop harper” person started taking photographs of the encounter while another started filming me. THERE WAS NO PERMISSION GRANTED TO HAVE FOOTAGE TAKEN OF ME BEING APPROACHED BY A CONSERVATIVE.

So, the question is, what website could my face be posted on without my permission??? And let’s be clear…those photographers were also staffers on the hill (read: Liberals) who are on taxpayer payroll as well.

No staffer should be engaged in that kind of activity. Do you agree? — Garth

#115 jwp on 06.15.08 at 5:17 pm

I get such a kick out of all you CPC people on hear ringing the alarm bells about this Carbon Tax….LMAO….Have you been into the grocery store lately, prices are going higher weekly, gas prices have more than doubled in a year, I don’t hear you moaning and complaining about that…oh right, it’s out of the CPC’s hands, world markets etc…but what are they doing about it?
You are worried about a 2% increase if that when right now in front of your noses prices are spiraling…now even the cab drivers are getting in on the act. Wake up folks, the carbon tax is the least of your worries…Bushie’s illegal war will cost you so much more.
LMAO….suck it up!

#116 Bill-Muskoka on 06.15.08 at 5:21 pm

Easy,we are heavily armed .

By Men With Hats on 06.15.08 4:59 pm

Well, might I suggest Weight Watchers, Herbal Magic, or laying off the spinach? LOL

#117 kpn on 06.15.08 at 5:23 pm

Greg,
Just a few facts about geothermal. We installed geothermal when we built our house two years ago. It is a 2900 sq ft, attached partly heated garage. We did not hook up the natural gas line to the house, our heating and hot water is entirely through geothermal and electricity. It cost us just short of 50 thousand for the geothermal system, including the pit digging and back filling. Our electricity bill in the winter averages between 6 and 700 dollars. The majority of our electricity use runs the three heat pumps and hot water domestic tank as geothermal can only heat water to about 105. We used very good insulation, triple pane windows, and ICF foundation, so it is an efficient house and our electricity bills are still that high. So how many Canadians are in that kind of position to fork over that much money to retrofit, and sustain a huge increase in their electricity bills, esp. if rates skyrocket.
Kerry

By Kerry Busse on 06.15.08 11:31 am

Hi Kerry – I responded to Greg, before I read your post. I mentioned earlier that, during the last 2 winters, as I’m home, we use a fairly efficient wood stove to mostly heat our home. We’ve an electrically heated home, split entry, and we pay about 10.7 cents Pkw. We bought 4 full cords this spring. Started at 185 & each week went up till it was $205. due to transportation, etc. But we’ve seen our electric bill decrease by half during the cold winter months. We live in a v. damp climate and it goes right to my bones. Last winter we only used our fireplace upstairs 3X, after we no longer used the wood stove downstairs. I know there are more efficient wood stoves now and I wish our govts., prov. & federally would offer incentives to become more energy efficient. I changed 98% of our light bulbs with thos CFL (?) ones and later learned there are problems with mercury.

Has anyone had experience with the ‘on demand’ hot water heaters?. We’ve read pro & con about them. We’ll need to replace ours in another yr or so & would like to go with the most efficient. Picking up our 3/6 Carmoma toilets this week :-).

#118 Steve(Coverall Guy) on 06.15.08 at 5:27 pm

“Finally, what about gas? No increase in gas taxes. Period”

Exactly. NO INCREASE IN THE TAXES ON THE GAS PURCHASED. But it will raise the price of gasoline. Period. You said so.

“As for a carbon tax-induced increase in fuel costs, I am told the estimated increase is between a half-cent and two cents per litre as an eventual pass-through by producers. The income tax cuts everyone will experience are designed, in Dion’s plan, to more than offset increased consumer costs, where they occur. — Garth”

Do you have an actual point? — Garth

#119 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 5:27 pm

By Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 4:52 pm

Actually this quote has been attribted to Einstein but many say he never said it.
On another note concerning wildlife we have a problem.
About 30% of the famous Alaska salmon being caught are not even fit for dogs.Seems some kind of disease is taking it’s toll.It,s all here in anycase. From the LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ichfish15-2008jun15,0,587682.story

“If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.”

#120 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 5:35 pm

“But I digress, I think it was Albert Einstein that concluded and I paraphrase we would be in big trouble if we lose bees.”
Einstein never said ” If the bees disappear from the surface of the earth,man would have no more than four years to live ”
Einstein was a physicist not an entomologist , botanist or any other form of biologist .
It is a myth that he uttered these words.

#121 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 5:39 pm

Make the CEO, especially oil CEOs the least taxed and most highly paid in the world.
By jwp on 06.15.08 11:02 am

Michael Moore vs Warren Buffet (socialism vs capitalism)

He also quotes, “Doug Urbanski, the former business manager for Left-wing firebrand and documentary-maker Michael Moore. ‘He [Moore] is more money-obsessed than anyone I have known – and that’s saying a lot.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1026442/Dont-listen-liberals–Right-wingers-really-nicer-people-latest-research-shows.html

Buffett announced in June that he would gradually give away 85% of his Berkshire holdings to five foundations in annual gifts of stock, starting in July 2006. The largest contribution will go to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

Gord.

#122 kpn on 06.15.08 at 5:59 pm

KPN

Check out pellet stoves as an alternative to wood. We have one and during the winter it reduces our electric home heating bill by at least half. At 30 below 0 our furnace only comes on about once an hour unless there is a high wind. At 40 below I turn the furnace on for haf an hour every once in a while because while the air temperature is fine the walls get very cold and starts to offset any heating advantages.

Basically you are burning tiny compressed pellets of sawdust at high temperatures with little smoke or ash as a result. Certainly any emissions are less than from burning coal.

If it works well in the north it should work for you The cost is about $7 a day in pellets which would likely be only about $5 down south with less shipping.

By William Dahl on 06.15.08 2:34 pm

Hi William – seems to me I’ve read pros & cons about pellet stoves. Sorry can’t quote link. Glad to hear you’re pleased with your stove tho. Worked in the garden from 10 am til 4 pm and tho its only 7:30 pm am off to bed. Will try and do some research on them soon, bu if you can provide some links, sure would appreciate them.

Night all.

#123 Greg W. Oakville on 06.15.08 at 6:01 pm

Hi Kerry Busse on 06.15.08 11:31 am,

Thankyou for the info. on your personal experiance we geo-therm.
Alway interseted to hear about the real world experiance of this kind of stuff.

There are still lots of new technology and applied technology and know how to make stuff more energy efficant and carbon intensive.
Some cost more, but they will still work in 20 years when Canada is all out of natural gas, and the world is all out of oil in 2050-2060!

Glade to see you are one who is doing what you are able, to reduce your carbon foot prints. No one is saying to will be easy to change. But doing nothing is still a choise and would be a very bad choise for us all.

#124 Ted Browne on 06.15.08 at 6:11 pm

“But the whole planet has to adjust to higher energy prices and costs, and dwindling supply relative to demand for oil, and it’s not going to be totally painless for every human being.”

By Harry S on 06.15.08 4:49 pm

Harry,did you ever consider the price of oil made this dramatic jump since the Iraq War started.And while I realize it’s McCallum’s statement maybe he should talk to the guy on the link posted by John Duddy at 9.13 this morning or maybe he should talk to Greg Palast in the link posted by me at 12.14.

I see a few posters say the guy on Alaska oil is only trying to sell books.
Maybe he is but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong.Greg Palast would like to sell things too but I doubt he’s wrong as well.They can’t all be wrong.
For the low low price of one measley book why not read it.Greg Palast you can get for free,just Google it.

When Jeb Bush and Kathleen Harris call Palast a maniac for questioning vote counting after the 2004 election you can bet dollars to doughnuts he was on to something then as he is now concerning the scam that is Iraq.

#125 jwp on 06.15.08 at 6:14 pm

Why 40,000$ – because I did some rough calcs – and it would probably cost us about 2,000$ or more a year for direct and indirect cost of Stephane Dion’s scam.

By Catherine on 06.15.08 2:45 pm

Read Harry’s 4:45 post and weep!

#126 Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 at 6:32 pm

Two stunning new scientific discoveries — this could be a major breakthrough to reduce dependence on oil.

Read it, study it, absorb it and rejoice!
****************************************
One recent study found the average Canadian walks about 900 miles per year.

Another study found Canadians drink, on average, 22 gallons of beer a year.

That means, on average, Canadians get about 41 miles to the gallon.

Kind of makes you proud to be a Canadian, eh?

— Taken a step further (my part) —

By playing around with figures, the addition of methane (farting), when added to vast quantities of strong, European beer, makes a highly combustible and volatile mix.

So, if one slows down to enjoy life more, one should average 65 m.p.g., and not need any transportation at all, save for one’s own feet!
****************************************
Terrific Euro 2008 soccer game today — points out that one should never, ever give up.

With 15 mins. to go, Turkey were losing 2-0 to the Czech Republic, and won 3-2 despite having a player sent off. Great game! Turks go through, Czechs go home.
****************************************
Cynthia, 12:44 am

. . . Bill C-61 is that it’ll limit our freedom of expression and freedom of press/media, something that is guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. . . .

Hello Cynthia.

A while back, dubya said “the Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper”, which characterizes the type of lying, dishonest ‘leader’ he is.

Two stolen and fraudulent elections, wars with Af’stan and Iraq (the US will never need a “coalition of the willing” to defeat them), and many other things that will haunt his legacy forever.

harpo is his disciple, and we’re already headed down the same road he has taken the States.

A number of Americans say the current economic mess is not something that the US will get itself out of this time — this one is a lot different than previous recessions.

Bills C-51, C-52 and C-61, in my way of seeing things, were designed to put voters here under the thumb of Big Brother — unless CRAP is turfed in the election.
****************************************
linda, 9:47 am

. . . the face of the neo-Con/NWO/???- does anything we do have ANY effect? Or are we just unimportant spectators?

Hello Linda.

Neo-con / NWO — one and the same. The only answer I can offer is that there are forces, much superior financially and otherwise, as compared to individuals in any country.

On this point, other than have a fed. election every few years and either keep or change platforms, all we can do is take care of ourselves, our families and possibly friends. That’s it.
****************************************
Someone once remarked: “This above all, to thine own self be true and it must follow the night as the day, thou canst not be false to any man.”

In The Okanagan Sunday — Presto! — a report from CP gives lurid, dastardly details of Alberta’s govt.; heading and subheads leave a rather unsavoury taste in one’s mouth:

“Taxpayers bombarding premier’s office over pay hikes” — and — “Ed Stelmach gave himself a $54,000 raise through an executive order, salaries of cab. ministers were increased by $42,000″

We don’t live in Alta., but Stelmach has said “tough shit” to voters there, the raises stand.

So far, a few folk there are a little upset. Not sure what would happen here in B.C. With the economy stuttering, my guess is that voters would demand an MLA recall.

#127 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 7:13 pm

“Every taxpayer will be better off. That’s the Dion goal,” said Liberal MP Garth Turner, who’s been helping with the communications strategy for the plan.

Garth, pardon me but this is just incredulous.

Gord.

Only if you believe the talking grease spot. — Garth

#128 Van on 06.15.08 at 7:34 pm

Finally, what about gas? No increase in gas taxes. Period. Over **** years, though, the pollution tax ****, By the Garth.

Smooth move Garth. Sure there will be no tax on gas. Wooopie ding. The real question is how much will the gas increase BECAUSE OF Dion’s carbon tax? That question you and every other Liberal has refused to answer. This carbon tax is just another way of trying to hood wink the public. Garth we may be dumb but we are not stupid and Garth your parties slight of hand tactics will not work. The jig is up and your party hasn’t even released the full plan yet.

By all means I really am praying for Dion to run his campaign on his carbon tax plan which will mean he will no longer be leader of the Liberal party after the election. Sp please please Garth encourage Dion will all your might to go ahead with his plan to run his campaign on his tax crab plan which will result in gas increases then Dion is willing to admit to.

Finally, until you guys come clean and tell us the truth about how much teh gas will go up BECAUSE of your parties carbon tax plan, it will not fly and be acceptable because of current high gas prices already. If you think in BC that we will accept another gas increase u=on top of the one Campell has already placed on your gas you have another thing coming and the Liberals have a very good chance of losing a good number of the BC seats.

#129 Van on 06.15.08 at 7:45 pm

He couldn’t hit his foot. — Garth

You hope. all he has to do is hit Dion. You forget they will be fighting for the same votes along with the Greens and the Conservatives will be on the way to another minority government.

#130 Van on 06.15.08 at 7:48 pm

Only if you believe the talking grease spot. — Garth

And why should wee believe you/ You still haven’t answered the question. How much will the gas go up AS A RESULT of Dion’s carbon tax? Sorry, saying that there will be no tax increase on gas is not answering the question.

Already answered on this blog. — Garth

#131 Van on 06.15.08 at 7:51 pm

Stop being a Chicken Little. — Garth

:-) look who is calling the kettle black :-)

I fear nothing. — Garth

#132 Leasa on 06.15.08 at 7:57 pm

Do you have an actual point? — Garth

There is a point. As some of you may know, farmers use a ‘coloured diesel’ for their tractors and on-farm equipment. The ‘coloured diesel’ is illegal to use on the roads.

The reason why they add a few drops of coloured to this diesel, is because the Ontario government does not charge us the 14 cents a litre tax on it. Sounds great eh? The transfer stations, and fuel companies, then raised our price on diesel…to over 14 cents a litre. Wait…gets even better…the diesel fuel (clear for the roads) over all is now MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN IS GAS. Less refined…used to be much cheaper than gas.

See, kids, we took out our rail system, we have more trucks on the roads (free trade has also caused massive trucking on our roads), the gas companies know they have these truckers by the ****s, so there you have it.

My diesel is now $1.35 ish per litre.

Garth, any carbon tax anywhere in our fuel delivery/refinery system and this is what you will get. They will pass on the total cost plus extra to the consumer.

They are ruthless when it comes to their billion dollar profits…it’s never enough.

Leasa

#133 Randy on 06.15.08 at 8:14 pm

Finally, until you guys come clean and tell us the truth about how much teh gas will go up BECAUSE of your parties carbon tax plan, it will not fly and be acceptable because of current high gas prices already. If you think in BC that we will accept another gas increase u=on top of the one Campell has already placed on your gas you have another thing coming and the Liberals have a very good chance of losing a good number of the BC seats.

By Van on 06.15.08 7:34 pm
——————–

Van, Lesa et all.. How much has gas and diesel gone up since the Harper Government lowered the GST? I rest my case.

#134 Nrth on 06.15.08 at 8:17 pm

Conservative staffers snare an unsuspecting (yeah) pedestrian. (Photo ripped from Stephen Taylor’s blog.)

Don’t think so below is the true caption to the pic. Uhh Jack Layton maybe?

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack won’t fall for Dion’s tax trick!

That was Con pseudoblogger ST’s non-partisan cutline. — Garth

#135 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 8:25 pm

Only if you believe the talking grease spot. — Garth

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 7:13 pm

Garth, I was talking about how you guys want to collect taxes to fix a problem that doesn’t exist. Care to comment on the temperature gathering stations?

Gord.

#136 Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 at 8:47 pm

Dion Liberal $14 Billion Carbon tax ..!!! . . . Now we have a number to work with.

By Harry S on 06.15.08 5:11 pm

carney / harpo / dimdumjim — $30 bln. (approx.) IT flip-flop…!!!! . . . Now we have a number to work with.

I suppose someone has to vote for liars, so it might as well be you, hairy.

. 2012 perhaps ..??
http://www.survive2012.com/geryl1.php
http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/

2012 could also spell the end of CRAP for good; they will have been out of the political landscape for so long, they will disband, then regroup under a new moniker.

#137 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 8:48 pm

Van, Lesa et all.. How much has gas and diesel gone up since the Harper Government lowered the GST? I rest my case.

By Randy on 06.15.08 8:14 pm

Randy you fail to realize the the price per barrel of gasoline has risen even though the GST rate was reduced. Therefore one would assume that the price per litre would rise. If the GST were still applied, gas would simply be 2% higher than it is now.

Gord.

#138 Pascal on 06.15.08 at 8:53 pm

Excellent.

I feel like getting involved for the Liberal Party again. I like it.

#139 Dube on 06.15.08 at 8:54 pm

There is a point. As some of you may know, farmers use a ‘coloured diesel’ for their tractors and on-farm equipment. The ‘coloured diesel’ is illegal to use on the roads.

My diesel is now $1.35 ish per litre.

Garth, any carbon tax anywhere in our fuel delivery/refinery system and this is what you will get. They will pass on the total cost plus extra to the consumer.

They are ruthless when it comes to their billion dollar profits…it’s never enough.

Leasa

By Leasa on 06.15.08 7:57 pm

Leasa, while I am aware of the tax-reduced coloured fuel, not being a farmer, trucker or taxi driver, I am ignorant of what if any tax incentives are available to businesses such as your to write off fuel as a major operating expense. Are there special allowances made for these occupations over-and-above those of other businesses for which fuel is a component, but not the component that drives the business (pun sincerely not intended)?

As for Free Trade being responsible for the increase in truckers, I have to disagree with you on that front. I believe competition is the ultimate driver as expressed through the just-in-time technique that has become the norm in manufacturing. It is used to reduce the inventory on hand to a minimum and thereby reduce the amount of warehouse space required and all of its inherent costs, and the cost of purchasing parts that may not be required for a very long time and thus tie up capital in that inventory. Obviously railroads are best used to move bulk materials, but when your bulk is reduced to a nominal amounts by restricting on-hand inventory, and you cannot afford the extra time it takes to transfer from one mode of operation (railroad) that by its nature has restricted avenues of movement, to another (trucking) with its more flexible movement, then the more restrictive mode will suffer. This has partially been addressed, even in overseas shipping, by the introduction of containers that can be quickly transferred without repacking, but not completely.

#140 Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 at 9:00 pm

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 7:13 pm

Garth, I was talking about how you guys want to collect taxes to fix a problem that doesn’t exist. Care to comment on the temperature gathering stations?

Gord

I know you diagree with climate change believers with dimming or sun spots or cooling. So which is it?

Which science or non-science do you believe is the cause of our climate change or do you think all is well and life is fine on planet earth?

#141 Ron p on 06.15.08 at 9:18 pm

“Taxpayers bombarding premier’s office over pay hikes” — and — “Ed Stelmach gave himself a $54,000 raise through an executive order, salaries of cab. ministers were increased by $42,000?

We don’t live in Alta., but Stelmach has said “tough shit” to voters there, the raises stand.
By Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 6:32 pm

Well Charles I do live in Wild Rose country and I can tell you that Eddie the pig farmer ought to know something about shit.
If these pay raises aren’t enough cause for alarm, Eddie is going to limit future campaign bugets come next election. During the last election a large group of gov’t and labour union workers used the campaign slogan of “NO PLAN” and ran TV, radio and newspaper adds. It was the first time in my 30 years as an Alberta resident that I have seen that much effort go into an anti-conservative voice. And still the Cons won 72 of the 83 seats. Now with that kind of majority I can kiss goodbye any hope that this prov. gov’t will do anything about the environment which means the energy sector will stay the course and continue to rip off the citizens of this prov and the country.

There’s going to be a revolution some day.

#142 sheila on 06.15.08 at 9:28 pm

The foul language and name-calling on this blog by those who advocate a clean and a pure environment are part of the pollution, and are not any part of the solution.

#143 Gord G. on 06.15.08 at 9:30 pm

Which science or non-science do you believe is the cause of our climate change or do you think all is well and life is fine on planet earth?

By Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 9:00 pm

Bonnie, I believe that science is never settled, if it were the world would still be flat. I have yet had anyone explain to me why I should believe this science when it is based on faulty collection data.

I am willing to accept that the earth goes through warming and cooling trends. I don’t know why this happens anymore than I know why and how it is possible a baby can be born or why I bleed when I cut myself. Who made the blood that flows through my veins, I don’t know, what I do know is that there are some things in life one has to accept and others one should intuitively question.

ps. I believe the sun spots cause interfence with satellites and radio signals.

Gord.

#144 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 9:30 pm

” Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. But teach a man how to fish, and he’ll be dead of mercury poisoning inside of three years. “

#145 Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 at 9:30 pm

If one reads between the lines which, in this case, is not overly difficult, one notices that the rhetoric against Iran is almost daily now. Further comments by whatreallyhappened.com

“I smell a rat here. Note how Iran gets more mention than anyone else in this story.

“The NIE released earlier this year reported the unanimous conclusions of all 16 US Intelligence Agencies that Iran has not been working on nuclear weapons since at least 2003, and nobody is really sure whether they were doing so prior to that. This makes a false-flag nuclear attack on the US to kick off a new war a problem unless a plausible case can be made for Iran skipping all the R&D and going straight from uranium centrifuge to working weapon.

“This story appears to be an effort to create such a case.”

http://tinyurl.com/4tojzm

#146 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 9:34 pm

Skepticism is actually a highly regarded trait.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 5:15 pm

Hope you can breathe underwater. Glug,glug glug .

#147 William Laidlaw on 06.15.08 at 10:17 pm

Gord G.
Some things you perhaps were not aware of concerning temperature measurements in mid-latitudes such as the continental United States and the populated portions of Canada.
1. In general you will find that the standard deviations of the means are 2 to 3 times the errors induced by any non-standard exposure.
2. Most temperature records on detailed analysis show a bimodal distribution with the mean centred between the 2 modes.

You might just want to go to work and do some climatology of your own – the group who are working on quantifying the effects of urbanization and instrumentation change on the record would welcome your assistance. There’s not very many of them and they aren’t getting any younger.

#148 Marg on 06.15.08 at 10:45 pm

By Leasa on 06.15.08 7:57 pm

Well, I have to agree with you on this one.

I grew up on a farm so I know about the coloured fuel, although I think my dad used gasoline rather than diesel.

The rail system that you mention is a great problem. It HAS to be more efficient than trucks if it were working properly.

#149 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 11:04 pm

The foul language and name-calling on this blog by those who advocate a clean and a pure environment are part of the pollution, and are not any part of the solution.

By sheila on 06.15.08 9:28 pm

You write that yourself ? How clever !

#150 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 11:08 pm

You might just want to go to work and do some climatology of your own – the group who are working on quantifying the effects of urbanization and instrumentation change on the record would welcome your assistance. There’s not very many of them and they aren’t getting any younger.

By William Laidlaw on 06.15.08 10:17 pm

Thanks William .

#151 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 11:11 pm

There’s so much pollution in the air now that if it weren’t for our lungs there’d be no place to put it all.

#152 Men With Hats on 06.15.08 at 11:26 pm

Nope. Nothing wrong with the weather .

15/06/2008 – Torrential downpours continue in southern and eastern China by Kirsty McCabe
At least 62 people are missing or dead following further heavy rains across many Chinese provinces…
View this article

14/06/2008 – Historic floods hit America’s Midwest by Steph Ball
Iowa has been worst hit by the current floods being described as a “one in five hundred year” event…

13/06/2008 – Floods hit Mexico by Philip Avery
Many parts of southern and central Mexico have been flooded after more than a week’s worth of heavy rains…

12/06/2008 – Heaviest rainfall for seven years in Mumbai by Philip Avery
With the early arrival of the south west monsoon at the end of May, Mumbai received the heaviest rainfall for the last se…

11/06/2008 – Contrasting weather across the US by Steph Ball
While the east of the US has been reeling under a heat wave the last few days, snow has fallen across the northwest…

10/06/2008 – Unsettled weather plagues Spain by Steph Ball
Last week, heavy rain across Spain’s Basque country triggered severe floods…

09/06/2008 – Eastern USA reels under heat wave while storms hit the Midwest. by Kirsty McCabe
As further storms roll across the US Midwest on Sunday, eastern states were reeling under a heat wave that saw temperature…

#153 Harry S on 06.15.08 at 11:53 pm

The neuro-psycho-whackos were out in full force last night … but nobody said anything of consequence … except me … with the $14 Billion … remember that number because that is what Dion has got to convince Canadians to give to him and his fantasy government if they want to salve their angst about Canadian GHGs destroying the planet and hurting all those children yet unborn…!!!

It will all hinge on whether Canadians are totally and completely guilt-ridden about our meagre, paltry 2.3% contribution to global GHG emissions. Have Canadians been adequately conditioned into thinking that Canada’s GHG will be the tipping point and throw the entire planet into a horrendous catastrophe of unfathomable proportions.

And then .. Stephane Dion will emerge as Canada’s saviour with his ‘Green Shi(f)t’ plan to the adulation of the masses. Go Dion … GO … (this week I hope) ..!!!!

#154 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 12:14 am

Gord G.
Some things you perhaps were not aware of concerning temperature measurements in mid-latitudes such as the continental United States and the populated portions of Canada.
1. In general you will find that the standard deviations of the means are 2 to 3 times the errors induced by any non-standard exposure.
2. Most temperature records on detailed analysis show a bimodal distribution with the mean centred between the 2 modes.
By William Laidlaw on 06.15.08 10:17 pm

William, what the heck are you saying, I have no idea what you mean, can you translate this into layman’s terms please?

Gord.

#155 brain on 06.16.08 at 12:50 am

By Catherine on 06.15.08 2:45 pm

“brain, I wish you would use yours. If Stephane Dion applies his Carbon Tax on the oil producers, don’t you think that this cost will passed to us – the consumer? The oil producers are not charities, they will not absorb the cost (their shareholders would not like it).” – Catherine

Oil companies are charities according to Harper. (come to think about it, I think it was $450 mil instead of $250 million worth of taxpayers dollars Harper Doled out for C02 Sequestering, to me thats a big donation to big oil and coal). It should be the expense of oil companies to clean up their own back yard, not the taxpayer. Christ, they can afford it, can they not? And yeah, what Tim said (snickers)
By Tim N on 06.15.08 4:46 pm

“Oh btw, the Conservatives don’t have to exempt us for the first 40,000$. Unless they are stupid and try to implement Dion’s Carbon Tax Scam.

Why 40,000$ – because I did some rough calcs – and it would probably cost us about 2,000$ or more a year for direct and indirect cost of Stephane Dion’s scam.” – Catherine.

Even if your right about 2 grand a year in extra costs from the “trickle down expense economics as you say it is (and I know you aren’t right), bumping up $8500 worth of personal tax exemptions to 40 G’s amounts to 8.5 G’s worth of tax direct savings to the tax filer at a mere 25% tax bracket. In short, get a new calculator.

And in the long, give it another week til’ the plan is revealed and then the real debate can begin ok? ;-)

By David Halfkenny on 06.15.08 1:59 pm

“This has to be some sort of a joke !! – David

Good to see your back at it, David, wouldn’t be the same without you! And yes, its a spoof, there’s just no detail at the moment for us laymen but that will change at the beginning of the summer break.

Brain, I think we are already at the point where most people are conserving, it’s because of higher prices, as heating bills go up people look at ways of trying to lower their consumption to offset the higher prices. Why go to the expense of creating a whole new tax structure for a problem that is already being addressed.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.15.08 3:00 pm

Because business isn’t addressing the C02 coming out of their pipes? Because a new tax scheme to oil companies could be really cost effective to impliment? Because energy could go down in price, and last but not least, because consumers aren’t putting enough pressure on manufacturers to build more efficient cars and furnaces or doing enough themselves to change their habits.

(of which I swear, KPN, heat to water to air exchangers are the way to go, its simple physics. The only issue I can think of could be a pump replacement from time to time but otherwise, its simple, way cheaper, and safer to boot! And when teens come over, you’ll never run out of hot water).

And one last thing on pellet stoves. The beetle kill in BC has created a huge energy reserve in what is now, the majority of it, unusable wood except maybe for pellets. Why industry isn’t looking at it more seriously is beyond me as the demand is there or most certainly, the demand could be created if it was marketed properly.

By Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 6:32 pm

Yeah… the honest Ed raise to himself and his ministers doesn’t pass the smell test. He didn’t even bother to debate it in the house. And the committee raises… the whole thing there stinks. They might have needed a raise, but nothing like that and with no debate!

#156 Daryn on 06.16.08 at 1:14 am

Hard to respect Harper these days.

This advertising campaign is pathetic; typical Finley-Harper style fear mongering.

Dion could probably sue the Conservatives if he wanted to. However he wont because he has twice the honour and conviction than those whom try to assassinate his character.

I think people whom are capable of creating such a fear campaign are also capable of cheating in an election (in and out scandal), bribing a dying MP for is vote (Cadman affair) and perhaps even interfering with the American presidential election (NAFTA gate).

Daryn

People whom are capable

#157 Sandy Canchuk on 06.16.08 at 1:41 am

yyyeah, I agree with most post here; Harper seems quite afraid of Dion and Dions’s activities.

I agree, Harper is the weird one; Harper is not a leader.

I feel that Harper and his bulldogs should be able to defeat poor old ‘Celine Dion’ ooops, I mean ‘Stephane Dion’, without bullying the taxpayers and the general public.

Too bad Harper doesn’t get it; he was given a chance.

#158 Catherine on 06.16.08 at 4:34 am

Which science or non-science do you believe is the cause of our climate change or do you think all is well and life is fine on planet earth?

By Bonnie N BC on 06.15.08 9:00 pm

Just a quick question here: which is it global warming or global cooling? Climate always changes – for millions and millions of years.

And why is it that the scammers out there peddling their schemes are not using “global warming” but rather using “global change”? Why is that?

#159 jwp on 06.16.08 at 5:34 am

The foul language and name-calling on this blog by those who advocate a clean and a pure environment are part of the pollution, and are not any part of the solution.

By sheila on 06.15.08 9:28 pm

And those who deny the existence of a problem are purer than the driven snow…LMAO….grow up Sheila

#160 jwp on 06.16.08 at 5:46 am

Now lets see, if the gas went up say 5 cents a barrel (pure conjecture), so 4.3 cents at the pump, and from this we have a program that will assist on cleaning up our environment. The CPC supports would be railing against it. However, we have a war in Iraq that has directly contributed to the rise of some 50 cents at the pump if not more, and no one wants to rail against that. If the U.S. had stayed out of Iraq, gas would be probably around $0.80. There is a direct connection between the greenback and the price of oil.
Maybe we should be looking in that direction….oh not to worry, Obama will take care of that, if Iraq doesn’t kick the U.S. out first.

#161 w faire on 06.16.08 at 6:36 am

when are they going to tax the oxygen that you breath? the dumbed down taxpayer would probably go for it if they came up with some junk science and ran a giant pr campaign.

#162 Dube on 06.16.08 at 6:57 am

Gord G.
Some things you perhaps were not aware of concerning temperature measurements in mid-latitudes such as the continental United States and the populated portions of Canada.

1. In general you will find that the standard deviations of the means are 2 to 3 times the errors induced by any non-standard exposure.

2. Most temperature records on detailed analysis show a bimodal distribution with the mean centred between the 2 modes.

You might just want to go to work and do some climatology of your own – the group who are working on quantifying the effects of urbanization and instrumentation change on the record would welcome your assistance. There’s not very many of them and they aren’t getting any younger.

By William Laidlaw on 06.15.08 10:17 pm

William,
I got the first point, the spread of the curve is much greater than the amount of error introduced by placement of the measuring devices, so that that error is relatively insignificant in comparison, but what is the significance of having 2 peaks in the curve?

Also, with respect to this, I would think the overall year-over-year trend is more important than how much deviation there is between the actual temperature and the measured value, provided that deviation is consistent. (Also, are the deviations all on the plus side or all on the minus side, or is it a blend). Rgeradfless, if the trend is upwards, then there’s need for concern.

#163 William Laidlaw on 06.16.08 at 7:50 am

Gord G.
Sorry, thought you were familiar with these terms.
What I’m telling you is that the range of the ‘normal’ values in the total set of records is greater than most of the errors induced by non-standard exposures, so the errors are lost in the mist so to speak; and that the set of values recorded cluster in two groups, one above the overall average, and the other below; this is in large part at the root of the wide variability in the record.
You might want to take a course in stats, the more you know the easier you can detect the bs.

#164 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 8:55 am

There is a direct connection between the greenback and the price of oil.

By jwp on 06.16.08 5:46 am

How profound!

Gord.

#165 persona sine ingenio on 06.16.08 at 8:57 am

Catherine wrote:

Just a quick question here: which is it global warming or global cooling? Climate always changes – for millions and millions of years.

Catherine, it is climate change. Climate is a chaotic system. It normally varies in a narrow range, as do stocks in a stable market. However, as the system develops instability, the variations intitially start to swing outside the norms, this if allowed to continue creates wider swings until a new normative range is established. Check out any of the excellent books on chaos theory for a better explanation.

#166 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 9:14 am

Because business isn’t addressing the C02 coming out of their pipes? Because a new tax scheme to oil companies could be really cost effective to impliment? Because energy could go down in price, and last but not least, because consumers aren’t putting enough pressure on manufacturers to build more efficient cars and furnaces or doing enough themselves to change their habits.

By Charles Oxley on 06.15.08 6:32 pm

But CO2 is a natural gas that plants need, can’t you guys come up with another doomsday scenario that won’t end up costing me money. Maybe you can try to save the rain forests or something? Remember plants need CO2 to live.

Gord.

#167 Ron p on 06.16.08 at 10:02 am

Karzai threatens to send Afghan forces into Pakistan

I can only hope that Karsai is blowing hot air. Since when did Afghanistan become a military power equal to taking on Pakistan and it’s nukes?
Regardless, it’s time to bring our troops home. This mission is BS.

#168 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 10:25 am

Garth posts article on Liberal Green Shift.

Very little discussion on the posted topic.

The Canadian Press has a substantive article on Green Shift.

$14,000,000,000 … that’s ‘Billion$$$’ .. Green Shift cost.

Still no reaction only vague emotional comments.

Why do Liberal trools avoid cost of Green Shift?!

What do Liberal trools fear …??!!!

#169 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 10:47 am

Simple Question:

WHY DO WE NEED A ‘CARBON TAX’ IN CANADA??

#170 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 10:53 am

Catherine, it is climate change. Climate is a chaotic system. It normally varies in a narrow range, as do stocks in a stable market. However, as the system develops instability, the variations intitially start to swing outside the norms, this if allowed to continue creates wider swings until a new normative range is established. Check out any of the excellent books on chaos theory for a better explanation.

By persona sine ingenio on 06.16.08 8:57 am

I think Catherine was asking why the IPCC had to change the phrasing from Global Warming to Climate Change. To me, it’s a no brainer, they wanted to cover all the bases. By callig it Climate Change it is easier to place the blame, if it were left at Global Warming the uneducated masses may start questioning the science because the Earth has stopped warming and is currently in a cooling period. By calling it Climate Change they can use phrasing like “likely”, “best estimate” and my favorite “very unlikely”. Vagueness is important when convincing the population of imminent doom.

Gord.

Gord.

#171 Men With Hats on 06.16.08 at 10:56 am

What do Liberal trools fear …??!!!

By Harry S on 06.16.08 10:25 am

Another stupid post from you ya’ head case.
It is spelled TROLLS . Moron .

#172 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 11:15 am

Tornadoes Determine Economic Growth

So it’s tornado chasing season and I usually try to get out to chase some storms down because this is what really cool, hip economist type guys do to impress the girls. And while dabbling on the internet I found this chart that showed where tornadoes occur and it occurred to me it is a nearly identical match to which countries enjoy 1st world status. ie-where there is the most tornadic activity there is also the most economic growth. Heck, even South Korea is plagued with tornadoes, but it’s evil communist twin to the north is not.

Read it all here: http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2008/06/tornadoes-determine-economic-growth.html

To me this is more believable than when scientists use faulty collection data to come up with AGW and then they have the audacity to call the science settled.

Gord.

#173 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 11:24 am

Another stupid post from you ya’ head case.
It is spelled TROLLS . Moron .

By Men With Hats on 06.16.08 10:56 am

Apparently spelling isn’t all that important anymore;

Tlel me if aynnoe can urdentsnad waht ive tepyd hree. Buacese we olny raed wdros not ltetres but 1st and lsat?
we larened to raed by Lkoinog at the frsit and lsat Ltreets of wrods. So as lnog as tehy are in the rhgit pclae we can raed nmloraly. inst taht azamnig?

Gord.

#174 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 11:31 am

What do Liberal trools fear …??!!!

By Harry S on 06.16.08 10:25 am

Another stupid post from you ya’ head case.
It is spelled TROLLS . Moron .

By Men With Hats on 06.16.08 10:56 am

…………………………………

Trolls + Fools = Liberal Trools …!!!

#175 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 2:19 pm

Garth … and reason for the notable absence of Dion, Ignatieff and Rae from Monday’s QP … something important going on behind closed doors maybe ..??!!!

#176 Men With Hats on 06.16.08 at 2:54 pm

Trolls + Fools = Liberal Trools …!!!

By Harry S on 06.16.08 11:31 am

Wow ! I am in speechless,awe of your brilliance .

#177 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 3:14 pm

Trolls + Fools = Liberal Trools …!!!

By Harry S on 06.16.08 11:31 am

Wow ! I am in speechless,awe of your brilliance .

By Men With Hats on 06.16.08 2:54 pm

……………………………

Then stfu trool … or answer the question:

WHY DO WE NEED A ‘CARBON TAX’ IN CANADA ..???

#178 Mary On The Prairie on 06.16.08 at 5:18 pm

I am so grateful I live in a prosperous part of the country that values self reliance. Unlike the province of Ontario, we don’t beg for the government to rescue us everytime there is a downtun in the business cycle.

The carbon tax is nothing but the NEP disguised as a “Green” plan. Pathetic.

#179 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 7:10 pm

Is this the reason why we need a Carbon Tax in Canada..??!!!

http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/ghg/inventory_report/2005_report/images/fs_1_l_eng.gif

(a.k.a. — “We didn’t get it done!”)

#180 AToryNoMore on 06.16.08 at 8:05 pm

Quiz Time:

Who talked about perceived health problems and so called green house gases?

#181 Harry S on 06.16.08 at 8:41 pm

Garth … serious suggestion for Dion’s Green Shift … since 82% of Canadians are urban dwellers, perhaps the carbon tax should only apply to large city dwellers since they have alternatives to cars with public transit. Reduce GHGs from the cities and associated industries, and that will not only reduce GHGs it will chop noxious pollutants too.

Rural and small town dwellers should not be carbon taxed to death because they don’t have alternative transit sources, nor do they have economic flexibility to bear additional taxation.

Besides, Garth … big cities like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, are Liberal strongholds and should be only too willing to unquestioningly support Dion’s Green Shift and carbon tax.

Tax the cities .. tax the largest emitters .. but don’t tax those with the least ability to reduce their carbon consumption.

#182 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 8:45 pm

Quiz Time:

Who talked about perceived health problems and so called green house gases?

By AToryNoMore on 06.16.08 8:05 pm

AToryNoMore, I personally don’t care who said that but I wonder if you have a comment on the temperature gathering stations.

Gord.

#183 AToryNoMore on 06.16.08 at 8:56 pm

By Gord G. on 06.16.08 8:45 pm

I’m still waiting on the science backing your previous comments regarding yourself being a GHG denier.

#184 Dube on 06.16.08 at 9:02 pm

I am so grateful I live in a prosperous part of the country that values self reliance. Unlike the province of Ontario, we don’t beg for the government to rescue us everytime there is a downtun in the business cycle.
The carbon tax is nothing but the NEP disguised as a “Green” plan. Pathetic.

By Mary On The Prairie on 06.16.08 5:18 pm

Do you mean like this Mary?

Striking Oil in Alberta

One spewing geyser of oil at Leduc, Alta., on Feb. 13, 1947, transformed the province’s economy. Until the oil strike Alberta struggled as a have-not province. Leduc “blowing in” was famous and rare because Albertans had never imagined large oil reserves existed beneath the wheat. But ownership of the resource challenged by the national energy program became a political battle: East versus West, Trudeau versus Lougheed. Today, the Leduc legacy lives on with Alberta paying off its debt in 2000 and countless barrels of crude yet to be extracted.

http://archives.cbc.ca/economy_business/energy/topics/378/
——–

Ontarians will be eloquent victims
by Robert Fulford
The National Post, 27 August 2005)

It was a slap in the face, a kick in the teeth. People in Ontario were coasting along, humbly grateful for their prosperous life, when suddenly they were made to feel like nobodies, outsiders. There it was in Thursday’s Globe and Mail, our shame compressed into one appalling sentence: “Ontario remains the only province never to have received equalization payments.”

How could that be? Is that fair? This country believes in equalization if it believes in anything. For 48 straight years, through good times and bad, Ottawa has been sending thick bundles of cash to every corner of the country.

Except Ontario.

No one knows whether the money Ontario sends elsewhere in this over-equalization program has done what it was supposed to do. Worse, “the province’s generosity has generated no goodwill in the other provinces.” (Look, we never expected gratitude. We were just doing the right thing.)

Have-not provinces traditionally establish their importance by threatening to separate from Canada, a terror tactic that rarely fails to get results. In Quebec, of course, it enriches key economic sectors, most recently the advertising business. Over the years Alberta and B.C. occasionally muttered about separating, the Maritime provinces developed separate-state advocates (a Saturday Night article, in the 1970s, argued for a new country called Atlantica), and you can’t spend 10 minutes in Newfoundland without hearing that it entered Canada as the result of a trick.
But it’s hard to see how Ontario can take that position. After all, we’re the place that separatists threaten to separate from. It’s not clear that anyone will be frightened if we announce we’re separating from ourselves.

http://www.robertfulford.com/2005-08-27-ontario.html

Erase that oil from the ground and I think you’d be singing a different tune. Pretty easy to be prosperous and self-reliant at $135 per barrel of product that nature happened to deposit under your feet, not because prairie folks are more industrious or brighter than anyone else in this country. To paraphrase an old chestnut:

There but for the grace of geology go I.

#185 Gord G. on 06.16.08 at 9:51 pm

I’m still waiting on the science backing your previous comments regarding yourself being a GHG denier.

By AToryNoMore on 06.16.08 8:56 pm

Look here and explain why I should believe the science when it’s based on temperature collection stations in which 87% fall outside the standard set by the IPCC.

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/over-500-ushcn-stations-now-surveyed/

One more point to ponder, why after last year when the climatologists forecast a very active hurricane season was the actual hurricane season less intense than predicted.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070403172305.htm

Gord.

#186 Judy on 06.16.08 at 10:49 pm

Very disappointed with Steven Fletcher, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health.
He obviously cares little about women’s health. When asked about the lead content allowed in cosmetics he joked that the amounts were minimal and at least he would not raise the price of lipstick!!!! He doesn’t care if women and young girls are applying lead to their lips. He didn’t feel it necessary to inform Canadians what companies are using lead so that we can avoid buying them. It was only necessary to let us know that it may cost us more if the Liberals win the next election.
It’s no wonder women can’t trust the Cons.

#187 Judy on 06.16.08 at 10:51 pm

Poor Pierre reduced to a roboton.
Mindless repetition of the same paragraph over and over and over and over.
Pierre, this is your brain on Conservative.

#188 AToryNoMore on 06.16.08 at 11:45 pm

I believe Pierre was wearing a three piece suit one day in the House last week. Is it because he has a cold heart?

#189 Dario on 06.17.08 at 12:00 am

Ah Dube. You are so correct. Albertan’s were indeed fortunate to find billions of barrels of oil under their feet. Geology has been favourable to us, much like geography has been favourable to Ontario. Why how fortunate could Ontario be to be next door to Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. The Yukon could only be so lucky to be next to the largest industial complex on the planet.

But there is a difference. Alberta doesn’t ask for the government to artificially inflate oil prices when they hit $12/barrell just a few short years ago. Saskatchewan doesn’t ask the government to artificially inflate the price of potash. Ontario expects the whole country to subsidize their factories, and artificially keep the Canadian dollar low when business is slow.

#190 Bill-Muskoka on 06.17.08 at 8:53 am

Sheesh, I see Gord is still going on about the temperature gathering stations.

Well, yesterday we drove from the Muskoka to Barrie, to Scarbourough, and back. Guess what? I watch my car temp indicator (digital readout) go from 21 when we leftthe Muskoka, down to 14 in Barrie, back up to 17 at the Barrie Rim, and then climb to 25 in Scarbourough. Had I just taken the temp from the radio I would never have detected the massive cold air bubble lying low in the Barrie area and making some very interesting weather over the GTA and area here.

Funny that , eh?

#191 Harry S on 06.17.08 at 10:31 am

“Why does Canada NEED a Carbon Tax?” is the killer question Liberals refuse to answer because they know it’s all due to the 32% GHG excess that Liberal governments piled up over 13 years of corrupt government … .!!!

Here’s the “We didn’t get it done!!” evidence:

http://www.ec.gc.ca/pdb/ghg/inventory_report/2005

A LIBERAL CARBON TAX TO ELIMINATE THE LIBERAL FAILURE TO CONTROL CANADA’S GHGs ….!!!!!!

#192 Gord G. on 06.17.08 at 11:15 am

Sheesh, I see Gord is still going on about the temperature gathering stations.

Well, yesterday we drove from the Muskoka to Barrie, to Scarbourough, and back. Guess what? I watch my car temp indicator (digital readout) go from 21 when we leftthe Muskoka, down to 14 in Barrie, back up to 17 at the Barrie Rim, and then climb to 25 in Scarbourough. Had I just taken the temp from the radio I would never have detected the massive cold air bubble lying low in the Barrie area and making some very interesting weather over the GTA and area here.

Funny that , eh?

By Bill-Muskoka on 06.17.08 8:53 am

I don’t get what that has to do with the temperature gathering station standards. Please explain your point.

Gord.

#193 Dube on 06.17.08 at 5:17 pm

But there is a difference. Alberta doesn’t ask for the government to artificially inflate oil prices when they hit $12/barrell just a few short years ago. Saskatchewan doesn’t ask the government to artificially inflate the price of potash. Ontario expects the whole country to subsidize their factories, and artificially keep the Canadian dollar low when business is slow.

By Dario on 06.17.08 12:00 am

How many years back is a few short? According to this graph, it would appear that those few years are a couple of decades ago. At that time, I was earning $24000 per year and by the standards of the day, that was a well paying job; today it would put me below the poverty line.

Historical Oil Prices
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Oil_Prices_1861_2006.jpg

As for the Oil and Gas industry operating free of government subsidy, the figures in this report beg to differ:

http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/GovtSpendingOnOilAndGasFullReport.pdf

Table 4-7 Total expenditure with program expenditure included, million 2000$


ITEM                1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 TOTAL
Direct Expenditure    12   15   12   13   64   23   26   166
Program Expenditure   25   26   47   30   30   34   37   227
Tax Expenditure     1048  810  539  922 1309 1435 1384  7931
TOTAL               1085  851  598  965 1404 1491 1446  8324

Up until 2007, exploratory wells earned tax credits of 25%, infill development wells tax credits of 15%. The program was suspended when oil prices increased to such a level that it would be embarrassing to continue – with the caveat that it could always be reintroduced should prices drop. Then there are companies like Pan Canadian, who by virtue of its CP Rail parent and its railway rightaways, was able to produce completely royalty free on its properties. Or Alberta Energy with generous tax breaks to drill on Alberta military bases.

Prior to the National Energy Program was the National Oil Program. With that, all Canadians serviced by western crude, the boundary of which was determined by the terminus of the Transcanada pipeline at the Quebec border, paid a premium over world prices for their petroleum. This was to assist the domestic industry, predominantly based in western Canada. Since the easternmost provinces obtained their petroleum from offshore sources via oil tanker, they were excluded. Even the job fallout in the early 80s was more a function of OPEC opening the valves and dropping world prices, rather than it ever was because of the NEP, but with all the lobbying that took place to drop the program, when the fall hit immediately on the heels of the cancellation of the program, producers had to bite their tongues, getting what they asked for.

To keep the myth alive and the indignation towards Eastern Canada, things like these are conveniently kept quiet. But just like other Canadian businesses, petroleum looks for government subsidy in one forma or another when times are hard, it just doesn’t like to admit it.

#194 dario on 06.17.08 at 5:38 pm

get your facts straight dube…please note the prices of the late nineties. I don’t remember my fellow Calgarians screaming for more federal dollars…

1986 $14.44
1987 $17.75
1988 $14.87
1989 $18.33
1990 $23.19
1991 $20.20
1992 $19.25
1994 $15.66
1995 $16.75
1996 $20.46
1997 $18.64
1998 $11.91
1999 $16.56
2000 $27.39
2001 $23.00
2002 $22.81
2003 $27.69
2004 $37.66
2005 $50.04
2006 $58.30
2007 $64.20

current break even costs at Syncrude are $33/barrel.