Ms. Denial

“Hey, brother, wassup?” Habitually perched on the edge of a couch in the government lobby during QP, she flipped her blond hair and looked indifferent. It was an act. Sandra Buckler, the media animal, was anything but.

As Stephen Harper’s communications director for 28 months, it was Buckler who was responsible for scrubbing impromptu press conferences following cabinet meetings. Where cameras and reporters once camped out at the stop of the stairs on the third floor of Centre Block, there’s now only a small phalanx of armed House of Commons security forces standing outside the PM’s door.

It was Buckler who told both MPs and ministers when they could, and could not, speak. It was her initiative to give caucus members plasticized wallet cards with weird rules to follow should a dreaded reporter call. It was she who decided who did Duffy, Newman or CPAC each night in the foyer of the House of Commons.

And it was Buckler who walked into national caucus each Wednesday morning, took the podium and told MPs how not to communicate. The rules, she said, are simple. When you leave this room, don’t speak. If you don’t talk, they don’t get a story. And remember, the media is the enemy.

Three feet away, on the stage overlooking the caucus, nodding, was Harper. Buckler’s words were taken as the leader’s and the message was clear – this government has but one voice. It is his.

As you might imagine, Sandra Buckler said no to me a lot. I was warned about speaking out on a weak environment plan, on my campaign for income-splitting, or gay marriage. I was told to shut down this blog. I was ordered not to do radio and television interviews. I played along as much as I was able, but drew the line when I could no longer do my job. An MP is an advocate for the people, not an adjunct of a political party. Communicating with constituents and Canadians is a key part of fighting for change and mobilizing opinion. Without that, the wrong people – unelected ones – get to make the decisions.

You might think I disliked this woman, but far from it. In fact, Buckler – who announced her resignation Thursday evening – was extremely effective and competent in her role. She was able to water down a caucus with far too many former small-town municipal councilors and far too little legislative experience. She kept hidden a social conservative agenda brought to Ottawa by a caucus heavily populated with evangelicals. She managed on most days to manipulate, massage and deliver a message right out of the PMO.

In Buckler’s Ottawa, Conservative MPs represented ridings where every voter supported their member and the member’s government; where caucus was of one mind; where debate equaled division; and where team trumped all. Quite the feat. The purposeful suppression of both democracy, and a free press.

Ms. Buckler leaves her job after a recent brush with cancer. She leaves as her boss brings in a tough new guy to take over the prime minister’s office. Her departure comes just months before the next election, in which a pent-up media may exact revenge for her past actions. This moment may signal a change in communications strategy by a PM acutely aware he will soon need what he’s been unable to buy.

Ms. Buckler would not let me speak. So when I did, the consequences were terrible.

I cannot thank her enough.

202 comments ↓

#1 john on 06.26.08 at 10:40 pm

Ms. Buckler would not let me speak. So when I did, the consequences were terrible.

I cannot thank her enough——– LMAO hilarious!

#2 TS on 06.26.08 at 10:47 pm

Loved the post Garth. I agree that it probably signals an attempt by Harper to ‘soften’ things with the media before the next election. Journalists, if they have even a few brain cells left, will hopefully see through all of this.

#3 TS on 06.26.08 at 10:56 pm

News on the Adscam front…

Gomery had personal bias against Chretien: court

The Federal Court has struck down parts of Justice John Gomery’s findings into the sponsorship scandal, and says Gomery displayed a personal bias against Jean Chretien. A former aide for Chretien called the ruling a “total vindication.”

Gomery betrayed bias, judge says
View more MSN videosGo to CTV.ca

Former prime minister Jean Chretien displays his Order of Canada medal as he was invested as Companion to the Order during a ceremony at Rideau Hall in Ottawa, Friday, Feb. 22, 2008. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

CTV.ca News Staff

Justice Max Teitelbaum ruled Thursday that Gomery, head of a public inquiry into the scandal, made comments to the media throughout the hearings that betrayed a bias against Chretien and his then-chief of staff, Jean Pelletier.

“I agree with the applicant (Chretien) that the commissioner became preoccupied with ensuring that the spotlight of the media remained on the commission’s inquiry and he went to great lengths to ensure that the public’s interest in the commission did not wane,” Teitelbaum wrote in his ruling.

“This preoccupation with the media outside the hearing room had a detrimental impact on the fairness of the proceedings.”

Shortly after the hearings began, Gomery gave an interview in which he suggested Chretien’s idea of handing out golf balls with his signature was “small-town cheap.”

An infuriated Chretien later arrived at the hearing with similar golf balls signed by U.S. President George Bush and former president Bill Clinton.

Teitelbaum also struck down parts of Gomery’s findings that found Chretien and Pelletier partly responsible for the scandal. In his Nov. 1, 2005 report, Gomery said Pelletier was heavily involved with choosing the ad agencies. He also said Chretien had been repeatedly cautioned by the Privy Council about the lack of oversight in the program.

However, Gomery stated there was no evidence Chretien and Pelletier were “in any way” involved in the kickback scheme, supervised by a senior Liberal in Quebec, which resulted in $1.1 million of sponsorship funds being diverted to the Quebec wing of the federal Liberal party.

Gomery and the media

Teitelbaum said in his ruling that Gomery failed in his duty to make sure a reasonable person would find the proceedings to be fair and impartial. He blasted Gomery’s apparent fascination with the media.

“The nature of the comments made to the media are such that no reasonable person looking realistically and practically at the issue, and thinking the matter through, could possibly conclude that the commissioner would decide the issues fairly,” Teitelbaum wrote.

“The media is not an appropriate forum in which a decision-maker is to become engaged while presiding over a commission of inquiry, a trial, or any other type of hearing or proceeding.

Chretien, currently in Stockholm, Sweden, at a conference, is “very gratified and very happy,” his long-time adviser Eddie Goldenberg told reporters in Ottawa.

“It’s a total vindication of Mr. Chretien and Mr. Pelletier.”

Gomery said Thursday he had not read the Federal Court’s ruling but said he had been impartial throughout the sponsorship scandal hearings.

“I made a lot of declarations,” the retired judge said in an interview. “I had not decided anything at the time. I considered myself impartial.”

Martin should ‘apologize': Goldenberg

Goldenberg also called upon former Liberal prime minister Paul Martin — who called the Gomery inquiry when he succeeded Chretien as prime minister — to publicly apologize to Pelletier.

Pelletier, who is suffering from cancer, was one of four Chretien loyalists fired from jobs at Crown corporations by Martin’s Liberal government during the sponsorship scandal. Aside from serving as Chretien’s long-time chief of staff, he was appointed Via Rail chairman in 2001.

Goldenberg called Pelletier a man of “enormous integrity,” and said he hoped Martin would “show the grace that we know he has” — and say sorry.

“I would hope something like that would help restore Mr. Pelletier’s health,” Goldenberg said.

CTV’s chief parliamentary correspondent Craig Oliver pointed out the “layers within layers” behind Goldenberg’s message.

“A lot of this was about, although nobody quite said it, the civil war within the Liberal Party itself. A civil war which almost destroyed the Liberal party within the province of Quebec,” Oliver said on CTV Newsnet.

“Mr. Martin’s advisers persuaded him that the way to win an election was to separate himself as much as possible from the Chretien era, and from (the sponsorship scandal). So he set up the Gomery inquiry against the advice of Chretien and Chretien’s people.”

#4 Blah Blah on 06.26.08 at 10:56 pm

Buckler was fired. Funny, ain’t it. Brodie & Buckler are leaving, yet you are still there.

I am eternal. Bless you. — Garth

#5 ex-canadian on 06.26.08 at 10:59 pm

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

#6 MJ Patchouli on 06.26.08 at 11:09 pm

Your piece on her is fair; I work in communications and can honestly say I had no idea if she was good or not and in fact, I can only imagine working for a controller like harper would be a tough job.

New cabinet ministers, new chief of staff and now a new communications director. Once harper switches to a new lip colour, we’ll have once again, Canada’s New Governmnet.

Nah…we’ll have a new official opposition, and a new prime minister, that’s what we’ll have!

#7 Harry S on 06.26.08 at 11:18 pm

Garth … you and your forum sycophants live in a deluded world where you go on your flights of fancy, unreality, fantasy.

I think you should stick to commentating on real estate matters and occasional legislative matters .. and stay away from joining the crowd of forum neuro-psycho-whacko sickos who feed off fantasy and foolishness that you dish out to them.

Btw .. can you tell us when Dion will start summer tour, criss-crossing Canada to ‘sell’ his carbon tax Green Shift scheme ..??!!!

#8 AToryNoMore on 06.26.08 at 11:20 pm

If Harper were trying to soften things he would have dumped Flaherty from Finance in the cabinet ‘whatever that was’ yesterday.

It was the least he could do for Ontarians.

#9 Molly on 06.26.08 at 11:24 pm

LOL!
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3NLY5naFMJIsbKHNeiWIKMTsEiQD91G3IBG0
It’s not enuf Dion, just don’t make US pay, make the polluters pay! NOW!

#10 slg on 06.26.08 at 11:32 pm

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

Boy, you fell for Harper’s message didn’t you. He says Liberal bias and you believe him….what a fool.

Toronto Star is the ONLY Liberal leaning paper – the rest are all conservative leaning. Jeffrey Simpson even said the Globe and Mail tends to lean right… do the math – it’s very simple. Duh

You don’t get it do you? Harper planted that little seed in the minds of his supporters and they went for it, line, hook and sinker.

National Post, Sun Media (which own a big chain of small town papers), CanWest (which I believe own all the papers out west, if not most) and CTV……. all Conservative MSM.

Perhaps Ms Buckler chose to resign – considering her health issues and how stress can affect people – and her age….

#11 barb the proof-reader on 06.26.08 at 11:48 pm

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

BY EX-CANADIAN ON 06.26.08 10:59 PM

What a ridiculous statement. These unending Con lies will end when they all backfire on the lying Trolls who keep trying to repaint the world in false conservative spin and reframing. People like this phony “Ex-Canadian” are a disgrace to civil society.

#12 Janice on 06.26.08 at 11:57 pm

“Her departure comes just months before the next election, in which a pent-up media may exact revenge for her past actions.”

posted by Garth Turner on 06.26.08 @ 10:32 pm

Ain’t that the truth. The media isn’t there to report fact but to editorialize and promote their own liberal political agenda.

#13 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 12:10 am

Buh,Bye ! Sandy .You won’t me missed .

#14 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 12:13 am

The North Pole could be free of sea ice for the first time in recorded history this summer, according to National Geographic News.

And that would have the effect of speeding global warming, as highly reflective ice gives way to heat absorbing water in the high Arctic.

As NatGeo reports, scientists were shocked last year when the high Arctic lost 65 per cent of its ice cover in one year, an unprecedented loss over a time scale they previously thought was impossible. And, perversely, that generates more of the Deniers’ favorite commodity: doubt.
We can all now doubt that things were as bad as we might have feared. As it turns out: they’re worse.

Alright members of the ‘Flat Earth no Global Warming ‘cadre .
Go nuts .

#15 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 12:22 am

What suped-up, inflammatory attacks will be dreamt up today by the Con Trolls, as they obey oracle Harpocrite, in feigned nonsensical outrages and insults.

http://tinyurl.com/3sybyg

#16 Jennifer Smith on 06.27.08 at 12:29 am

I’m looking forward to reading her book.

#17 Deb Prothero on 06.27.08 at 12:54 am

Thanks for your professional and warm tone, Garth. We need more of this from all parliamentarians.

Despite the job she was doing (or who she was doing it for), Buckler is still a person serving the public, each and every one of whom deserves a measure of respect. A little less partisanship in daily life within the Queensway and Canadians will start to pay attention again.

My opinion on why fewer people pay attention is that each and every one of us is harangued by living in this fast-paced world. When we see the screamfest, we turn from it because our own lives are complicated enough and there is little we can do about all that conflict in Ottawa.

Respect is critical even when on opposite sides or probably most importantly when on opposite sides. Debate can be civil. Its less polarizing when it is.

#18 Joseph on 06.27.08 at 1:12 am

“Canada’s media is exclusively liberal”

Please stop peddling that crappy fiction.

#19 brain on 06.27.08 at 1:25 am

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

Can West and the CTV is Liberal. Thats rich, lol.

I don’t expect much in the way of changes. All communications will still run through the authoritarian PMO.

#20 Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 at 1:31 am

. . . the media is the enemy. . . . one voice. It is his. . . . where debate equaled division; . . . purposeful suppression of both democracy, and a free press.

This pattern is crystal clear, and it doesn’t take much effort to read between the lines to see where Canada is headed. No matter — the more negative press CRAP rolls itself in, the higher the probability the Libs. will be handed a majority, simply by default.

Suppression of major media outlets (which comes from either ultra left- or right-wing groups) will eventually see regular folk forego the msm, as there are plenty of other alternatives, such as the ‘net, satellite radio, etc.

Major newspaper subscriptions have been steadily declining, whereas small, local and community giveaways, which have no political agenda, hold steady or increase.

Young people don’t seem to have much interest at all as to what is happening in the exterior world; at least not until they figure out that they are now adults and are, therefore, fully and totally responsible for themselves.

Not only is life a real bitch, it is also equally proportioned so what a person puts out, either in a positive or negative sense, is precisely what is handed back to them.

All is fair in love and war.
****************************************
Not only is the economy headed Due South, it may be accompanied by what’s Due North . . .

http://tinyurl.com/4jyyy2
*******************************************
. . . where would China go to get water? . . .

http://tinyurl.com/3z7lud
****************************************
. . . followed by this.

http://tinyurl.com/66bxod
****************************************
Now the Mexicans are looking at taking parts of Texas back as their own again!

http://tinyurl.com/57ffwz

#21 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 2:23 am

Don’t let the border slam you on your way out.

BY BRAIN ON 06.25.08 11:59 PM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Brain,

I caught your post yesterday. Good workover. Must have felt good. It’s a triple battle for truth, [1] against the feckless Con Troll Followers, [2] against their sickening leaders and [3] to shine light on carefully sculpted corporate-shaped lies and legislature.

It’s so simple, yet these Neanderthal Cons are locked in ignorance ……

Wait, that’s it!! I just answered my own question…. The “Missing Links” are alive and well.. and they lied their way into power.

#22 Duane on 06.27.08 at 4:40 am

Thank her for me too when you see her again Garth. Great jobs on your part. Keep up the good work. Thank you for keeping it real.

#23 Catherine on 06.27.08 at 4:51 am

Garth, try publically speaking against the grain in your Liberal caucus, and see if your leader will be more tolerant of your antics. I highly doubt it.

#24 TS on 06.27.08 at 5:40 am

“Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm”

Liberal or Marxist? LMAO!!! CTV is full of Conservative-leaning reporters. Just watch Mike Duffy (if you can stomach him)…. the obvious Conservative slant is legendary.

You obviously haven’t bothered to read some of the comments on here about how it is almost impossible to get anything other than a heavy Conservative slant in Western Canada from reporters there.

You obviously fail to remember how the Conservatives ‘hand picked’ their reporter crony friends to get their spoon fed version of the Elections Canada raid.

#25 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:48 am

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

A Liberal might say that CTV is pro CPC, a CPC supporter might say the CBC is pro Liberal. Hard to tell where their bias lies, one thing is sure, journalism has changed during my lifetime from trusted reporters like Cronkite, who for the most part delivered the news for what it was, and was trusted, to today’s news sensationalists who weigh in with opinion most of the time. I couldn’t tell you who they favour except themselves and their unquenching quest for ratings.

#26 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:53 am

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=7dd090c5-4075-4052-9969-7febebc12741

More price increases to come….
P.O. complains present limit of 2/3 of annual inflation isn’t enough to cover their costs…couldn’t agree more…as a senior I can confirm that indexing is way behind the actual cost of living!

#27 TS on 06.27.08 at 6:16 am

As the Alberta government and the Conservatives in Ottawa continue to do nothing about emissions the public awareness campaign grows more intense…..

Oilsands vacation site tempts visitors with ‘toxic lakes’

Fri Jun 27, 12:00 AM
EDMONTON (CBC) – Greenpeace has launched a tongue-in-cheek website touting the tourism potential of the Alberta oilsands.

The site (travellingalberta.com) has an address similar to Alberta’s official tourism page (travelalberta.com) and is the conservation group’s response to the province’s $25-million campaign to improve the environmental image of Alberta’s energy industry.

The Greenpeace-produced site promises visitors “beautiful black sand beaches [that] stretch for miles,” toxic lakes and clearcut forests.

“Try open-pit paragliding and ride the unique coal bed methane and sour gas updrafts,” a male announcer says over a slide show of familiar Alberta landmarks, grinning tourists and panoramic shots of the oilsands.

Earlier this year, Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach announced his government was launching a $25-million campaign to polish the province’s environmental image. This week, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers unveiled a website to promote what the industry is doing to cut greenhouse gas emissions and limit water consumption.

“We thought we’d help the province and CAPP [the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers] with their ‘rebranding’ campaign by bringing Alberta’s newest tourist attractions to the world’s doorstep,” said Mike Hudema with Greenpeace Canada.

“Any visitor to the Alberta tarsands can see the pollution, smell the sulphur, taste the toxins and hear the air cannons – we’re saving them the trip,” he said.

The site suggests that visitors start the day early with a propane cannon wake-up call, and try sailing on tailings ponds, man-made lakes that hold toxic waste left over from the oilsands extraction process.

“These ponds are so dangerous that oil companies use cannons and scarecrows to keep ducks and birds from dying on the oil-slicked surface. When catching the strong winds on these ponds, be sure not to capsize!” reads the site’s section on vacation ideas.

Hudema said he would like to see the money being spent on the public relations campaign used to clean up the oilsands rather than improve Alberta’s global image.

Earlier this week, an association of U.S. mayors passed a resolution urging American cities to stop using fuel from the oilsands.

Minister of Tourism, Parks and Recreation Cindy Ady was not impressed with the website.

“I’m a bit disappointed mostly on behalf of those who work so hard in this industry, but I also would say it’s not an accurate representation of this province.”

#28 C. B. Innes on 06.27.08 at 6:17 am

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

The Conservatives have worked extremely hard to make the media their enemy. That means that they have alienated those who would be their natural supporters among the large right wing media personalities such as Don Martin and Andrew Coyne.

Only unthinking followers still idealize Stephen Harper’s government.

#29 PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.27.08 at 6:46 am

“She was able to water down a caucus”…

If that’s true, she was ineffective.

She had a standing offer of a decommissioned high pressure fire hose with direct connection to la baie de Fundy [Elsie's toilet bowl] to keep the C.R.A.P./S.H.I.T.’s in check. Frankly, I was seriously angry about her seeming indifference to the offer.

“Asked if there would be any shift in direction in his government’s communications, Harper declined further comment.” TorStar this morning

Any reader would take that as NO.

By MJ Patchouli on 06.26.08 11:09 pm

…said it BEST

New cabinet ministers, new chief of staff and now a new communications director. Once harper switches to a new lip colour, we’ll have once again, Canada’s New Governmnet.

Nah…we’ll have a new official opposition, and a new prime minister, that’s what we’ll have!

#30 keith phibbs on 06.27.08 at 6:58 am

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy. Buckler is correct in describing Canada’s media as the enemy – unless of course you happen to be a liberal or a marxist.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

Give me a break.So you are telling me that the TRUTH is the cons enemy?

#31 jwp on 06.27.08 at 7:09 am

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=39c1b9f1-1d01-4ba9-aafb-bf5dc526cafb

CPC doesn’t talk to the Taliban but….
look what they are up to now!!!

#32 jwp on 06.27.08 at 7:14 am

http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/forums/thread/129277.aspx

Interesting take on Ontario Federal Representation.

#33 kpn on 06.27.08 at 7:33 am

OT:

Oilsands vacation site tempts visitors with ‘toxic lakes’
Alberta tourism minister disappointed with how province is represented
Last Updated: Thursday, June 26, 2008 | 10:00 PM MT Comments64Recommended122CBC News
The Greenpeace website has an address that’s similar to Alberta’s official tourism page. Greenpeace has launched a tongue-in-cheek website touting the tourism potential of the Alberta oilsands.

The site (travellingalberta.com) has an address similar to Alberta’s official tourism page (travelalberta.com) and is the conservation group’s response to the province’s $25-million campaign to improve the environmental image of Alberta’s energy industry.

The Greenpeace-produced site promises visitors “beautiful black sand beaches [that] stretch for miles,” toxic lakes and clearcut forests.

“Try open-pit paragliding and ride the unique coal bed methane and sour gas updrafts,” a male announcer says over a slide show of familiar Alberta landmarks, grinning tourists and panoramic shots of the oilsands.

Earlier this year, Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach announced his government was launching a $25-million campaign to polish the province’s environmental image. This week, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers unveiled a website to promote what the industry is doing to cut greenhouse gas emissions and limit water consumption.

“We thought we’d help the province and CAPP [the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers] with their ‘rebranding’ campaign by bringing Alberta’s newest tourist attractions to the world’s doorstep,” said Mike Hudema with Greenpeace Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/06/26/greenpeace-tourism.html

#34 Bel on 06.27.08 at 7:42 am

Oh mighty and eternal Garth :oP

Does this mean that we may see harper flipping hot dogs again and even tossing a foot ball with day and mckay? (does day believe dinosaurs played foot ball?)

Could he emerge and wrinkle his nose in discomfort as he considers the thought of kissing a baby?

Will the gopher blink in the light? or will he see his shadow and run back into the hill and bury him self behind his voiceless trolls?

#35 Calberta on 06.27.08 at 7:51 am

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

What Conservative policy would that be?
Is it the neo-con flip flop on trusts or the attack on Ontario, maybe the policy of stonewalling on Cadman or the one that really gets me is the National Security breach that was covered by saying it was only Berniers private life.
These Harper-Conservatives deserve the media attention especially if you believe in good government and a democratic Canada.
And BTW Marx had nothing to do with it just ask Buckler!

#36 PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.27.08 at 8:02 am

By Calberta on 06.27.08 7:51 am

There was another national security breach which received widespread attention … Very early on it set the tone for what we could expect from Birdy [BOO] Baird and Harper.

http://deadder.net/download/hirez0702/d705101r.jpg

#37 David on 06.27.08 at 8:12 am

“Her departure comes just months before the next election,” – Garth

How long have you been saying this?

Perhaps in 12 months time, as we get closer to the fixed election date of Oct 2009, it will actually become true.. Your empty threats are beginning to get boring.

Sorry you feel threatened. — Garth

#38 Dube on 06.27.08 at 8:16 am

Under the tutelage of Guy Giorno, expect to see Stephen Harper suddenly appearing in cardigans, projecting the kindly, wisened father image, as was the case in the with the precipitate transformation of Mike Harris from spit bull while in Opposition in the Ontario legislature, to a Bing Crosby in the “Bells of St. Mary’s” in his appearances and commercials just prior to winning government. You know what they say about leopards and spots; Harris didn’t fool me, nor will Saint Stephen.

I’m curious who will fill Buckler’s role; poor woman must have had the hide of an elephant to withstand the daily directive. I understand that Pierre Poilievre ran his own communications company and may be looking for some redemption. A place to exercise his particular “talents”?

#39 slg on 06.27.08 at 8:36 am

You know what’s sad about all this – Sandra Buckler has ruined her own reputation protecting Harper…….and Harper wouldn’t care less.

That is sad indeed.

He isn’t worth the risk.

#40 Bel on 06.27.08 at 9:04 am

http://www.weltschmerz.ca/blog/2007/11/oil_asanas.php

I found Harpers oil sand policy – it took a lot of digging!

#41 David on 06.27.08 at 9:11 am

Sorry you feel threatened. — Garth

You missunderstand me Garth. I think many Conservatives would have hapilly gone to the electorate at any time over he past year however Dions reluctance to pull the plug prevented that.

My point was that you have been saying this for so long you have lost credability with your predictions. You obviously dont have the infulence with Dion that you imply you do. (even if you desire it so much)

How can we take you seriously when you continually make statements that do not turn out to be a reality. The next election will be in Oct 2009 unless the polls start to move in a big way. It is the polls that are dictating when we will have an election and the sooner you are honest about that the sooner we will have more respect for your comments.

#42 PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.27.08 at 9:13 am

with the precipitate transformation of Mike Harris from spit bull while in Opposition in the Ontario legislature, to a Bing Crosby in the “Bells of St. Mary’s” in his appearances and commercials just prior to winning government. You know what they say about leopards and spots; Harris didn’t fool me, nor will Saint Stephen.

By Dube on 06.27.08 8:16 am

Yes, there are many who reminisce about the Halcyon Harris days, and his gang of incompetent slugs, including Giorno.***

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/450046

***Catalogue of significant events and grand larcenies will be brought forward at a later date.

#43 Bonnie N BC on 06.27.08 at 9:16 am

Garth
I think Sandra Buckler served Mr. Harper well but the premise that any PMO can control a 24 hour news cycle had to crack under the strain. This is perhaps Mr. Harper’s biggest failing as he cannot suppress what he can not control – domestic or world events.

As far press bias, well they are human beings. Some are professional reporters and some like Mike Duffy are personalities that provide newsy entertainment. Chantal Hébert is the consummate journalist and reports the news. I would defy anyone to label her either right or left but she is balanced and insightful.

So is Sandra leaving before July 2 so she can skirt the lobbying legislation?
Oh no, that’s Ian Brodie.

#44 Judy on 06.27.08 at 9:52 am

Hey Guy—-how did you break it to Sandra that she had to go?
And is someone who works exclusively for the P.M. a public servant? Was Buckler on the public purse or the Conservative party’s?

#45 jwp on 06.27.08 at 10:18 am

By David on 06.27.08 9:11 am

It’s the party system that is the problem not individual MPs, I would suggest you would have to look a long way to find a party MP as independent as Garth is. As far as predictions are concerned, any one who thinks that are going to be right all the time, forget it. You have made yours now so we will see how good yours are.

#46 jwp on 06.27.08 at 10:22 am

By kpn on 06.27.08 7:33 am

The Alberta Tourism Minister doesn’t know how lucky he is, he could have Flaherty singing his praises by suggesting no one should invest in Alberta.

#47 Bonnie N BC on 06.27.08 at 10:22 am

Was Buckler on the public purse or the Conservative party’s?

By Judy on 06.27.08 9:52 am

FYI
The Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) is a central agency that came into its own in the late 1960s. It differs from its counterparts in that it is staffed with temporary political appointees rather than full-time, career civil servants and has no statutory base, its budget being a component of the estimates for the PRIVY COUNCIL OFFICE. The Prime Minister determines the PMO’s organization and role; its functions derive from the prime minister’s political responsibilities as party leader rather than as head of government, though in practice the division between these responsibilities is not clear, thereby providing opportunities for the PMO to trespass on the more purely administrative preserves of other CENTRAL AGENCIES.

#48 Closely Watching on 06.27.08 at 10:23 am

I guess she was doing a good job for Harper because I dislike her as much as I loath Harper. The difference is that he was elected to speak on Canada’s behalf while she is paid to speak on Harper’s behalf. If we get rid of him we get rid of the likes of her as a bonus. As long as Harper’s there we will just get a plug in Con-Borg Collective replacement.

#49 Daryn on 06.27.08 at 10:26 am

Garth,

Sandra was pretty good at her job.

I hope when Jim Prentice becomes the next Tory leader, that the party will attract better mainstream candidates so that this business of centralising the PMO will be a “one time” Harper-style fluctuation in Canadian politics.

I think Prentice isn’t the control freak that Harper definitely is. Is Harper actually okay with himself? I think somewhere along the line he confused “leadership” with “control freak”…..weird. Definitely a sign of something personal…..like for example, I think he sees himself as a superior human being.

History will judge Harper as the most CENTRALISING, power hungry Prime Minister in Canadian history. Harper is hypocritic as well, as he came to London and told an audience that his government was avowedly de-centralist.

He also called Dion a “centralizer” as well. Pfff….sorry Harpy no credibility left.

Another Nazi comparison if you can stomach it:

This whole business of “one voice” reminded me of a Nazi video I watched in which children where burning their bibles. The subtitles read, “their new fuhrer will tell them what they will know.”

#50 Daryn on 06.27.08 at 10:27 am

Lets all thank God that Harris cant speak French.

#51 jwp on 06.27.08 at 10:29 am

I think you should stick to commentating on real estate matters and occasional legislative matters .. and stay away from joining the crowd of forum neuro-psycho-whacko sickos who feed off fantasy and foolishness that you dish out to them.

Btw .. can you tell us when Dion will start summer tour, criss-crossing Canada to ’sell’ his carbon tax Green Shift scheme ..??!!!

By Harry S on 06.26.08 11:18 pm

Nobody cares what a TERRORIST thinks, only what they are going to do! So you can stop thinking aloud about what others should and should not do….specially consider the majority here think you are insane!

#52 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 10:34 am

You don’t get it do you? Harper planted that little seed in the minds of his supporters and they went for it, hook, line and sinker.. Post, Sun, CanWest, CTV -all Conservative MSM

BY SLG ON 06.26.08 11:32 PM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

You took the words right out of my mouth. And it’s no coincidence either. Nearly all of the MSM is owned by the right. It was at least 1980 or maybe earlier when they got on a roll with their plan, in places like the U.S.

#53 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 10:46 am

members of ‘Flat Earth/No Global Warming cadre.. Go nuts

B MEN WITH HATS 12:13AM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Men With Hats,

Don’t forget to add to your list, the tobacco is not harmful gang!

http://tinyurl.com/4bfn25

#54 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 11:02 am

CPC doesn’t talk to Taliban but look what they’re up to now!!!
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=39c1b9f1-1d01-4ba9-aafb-bf5dc526cafb

BY JWP ON 06.27.08 7:09 AM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

JWP,

That story is a national disgrace. And it goes to show how corrupt evangelicals will support each other:

“International justice advocates say Canada appears to be quietly promoting a proposal to drop charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity against notorious rebel leader Joseph Kony”
“an unclassified document that Canadian officials are said to have circulated to member countries of the UN Security Council says Canada is open “in principle” to the idea of Uganda asking the security council to defer the indictments against Kony and his band of commanders”
“such a move undermines Canada’s leadership in international justice and the “human security” approach to global issues. He argued it opens the door to impunity for Kony, who in his violent fight to bring in a government based on the Ten Commandments, kidnapped thousands of children and terrorized them to fight as soldiers in the war”
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Harper pretended to apologize we were over the kidnapping of native children for religious purposes. Harper says one thing and justifies another, if it leverages his agendas.

#55 Randy on 06.27.08 at 11:05 am

I think you should stick to commentating on real estate matters and occasional legislative matters .. and stay away from joining the crowd of forum neuro-psycho-whacko sickos who feed off fantasy and foolishness that you dish out to them.

Btw .. can you tell us when Dion will start summer tour, criss-crossing Canada to ’sell’ his carbon tax Green Shift scheme ..??!!!

By Harry S on 06.26.08 1
——————–
Tell you what Harry why not go to this forum over at the G&M and spew away your BS with the rest of your ilk. Dions plan targets oil rich provinces You should feel right at home there.

Oh and by the way, Dion is showing you some real guts starting his tour there. More than I can say for the do Nothing, let Canadians suffer, Prime Minister Harper.

#56 Brock on 06.27.08 at 11:05 am

Suppression of the free press?

Get a grip, Garth. Go to a country where the media is actually oppressed, and then come back to Canada and try to spin that garbage. Once you stop kissing the ground, that is.

#57 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 11:29 am

Debate can be civil. Its less polarizing when it is

By DEB PROTHERO 12:54 AM

Deb, civil debate is impossible here in Calgary. For example, out-of-the-blue, you’ll hear bashing of David Suzuki. It’s people who are looking for like-minds and they’re really pre-whipped up and looking for other anti-Suzuki zealots to spew with. It comes from their brainwashed bosses and peers in our oil industry. It’s just plain weird to hear go vicious on Suzuki! It really shows their ignorance. Geez, he’s a advocate for nature, and a kind and concerned citizen advocating for people, animals and our planet. The deniers have quite a racket going.
I see Molly posted an item on Hansen, the NASA fellow who was muffled by Bush. Hansen now advocates prosecuting these bastards who have squelched the science for 20 years. I hope they do.

#58 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 11:42 am

Dion’s plan targets oil-rich provinces
Tax to hit Alberta, Saskatchewan hard

Globe and Mail – June 27, 2008

TORONTO — Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion says 40 per cent of Canada’s carbon emissions come from Alberta and Saskatchewan and the two western provinces will have to do the most to change their habits under his new green plan. But he said it will be good for them – and he’s taking that message to the Calgary Stampede next weekend.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080627.wdion27/BNStory/National/home
………………………………………………………..

Hello Garth … Any thoughts on this emerging revelation about Dion’s Green Shift … which has the potential to alienate the West even further??

#59 AToryNoMore on 06.27.08 at 11:43 am

Canada’s media is exclusively liberal and mandated to challenge and find fault with conservative policy.

By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

I don’t know for sure, but I would say you haven’t lived here for maybe 30 years?

#60 Janice on 06.27.08 at 11:44 am

“For the record, we were notified by the Liberal Party the evening before they launched their campaign. They presented it to us in a fashion that implied that we should be happy by all of the extra traffic that we would receive as a result. We immediately notified them that we would take action to protect the name and the integrity that we have associated with it, and that we were not interested in receiving misdirected traffic. We began by politely asking. After receiving calls from the media, we contacted the Liberal party to ask again that they please stop using a name that we have clearly associated with our environmental program, to prevent confusion. Only after they refused to stop, did we decide to send a legal notice. We never did call the media – we simply received a flood of calls, thanked all of the concerned businesses/individuals/institutions etc., and gave honest answers to any media that reached us with questions.

“I suppose that it should come as no surprise that there will naturally, sadly, always be, those who instead can only see the cheap side – that is – suggesting that we would be happy with this misdirected attention.”

http://www.greenshift.ca/greenshift_unwanted_politics.html

Already posted. Try to keep up. — Garth

#61 jwp on 06.27.08 at 11:54 am

Hello Garth … Any thoughts on this emerging revelation about Dion’s Green Shift … which has the potential to alienate the West even further??

By Harry S on 06.27.08 11:42 am

Never mind that Harry, Goldman Sacks has cut “Tim Hortons” to SELL!!!!!!

#62 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 11:57 am

Once harper switches to a new lip colour…
Nah…we’ll have a new official opposition, and a new prime minister, that’s what we’ll have!

BY MJ PATCHOULI 06.26.08 11:09PM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

But I kinda like his old lipstick:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7008/harperprimzl6.jpg

#63 Robin on 06.27.08 at 11:58 am

The serpent has left the nest. Good bye and good riddens!

Why do people insist the media has a liberal bias when almost all of the media is owned by right-wing neo-conservatives? These assertions are simply more neo-con propaganda…pathetic.

#64 Bonnie N BC on 06.27.08 at 11:59 am

Off Topic

Happy Canada Day – Carbon Footprint

So I think most people will have a barbeque this long weekend. It’s not a bad idea to think about your footprint for the event.

But that charcoal or electric grill is not your best choice.

When it comes to carbon emissions, gas-powered grills win in a landslide. Tristam West, a researcher with the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory, compared the carbon output of gas, charcoal and electric powered grills when producing 35,000 Btu’s per hour, a typical industry baseline. West’s calculations showed that gas produced 5.6 pounds of carbon dioxide each hour, compared to 11 pounds for charcoal. As mentioned above, electrical grills produce a whopping 15 pounds of carbon dioxide for every hour at 35,000 Btu’s, so aren’t the best choice from the carbon perspective.

Yup, that gas or propane Barbie may come from non renewable resources but it is far more efficient.

So let’s talk about the carbon offset.

If you’re inviting friends round for the Canada Day barbeque this weekend, here are a few other things to think about:
• Consider transportation. Where are your guests coming in from? Can they carpool? Walk or bike? Take public transportation? Make it easy for them.

• It’s about what you cook, not how you cook it. Think about your actual ingredients. Meat (and especially beef) has a high carbon content. A recent study found that a pound of beef can take 36 times its weight in carbon dioxide to produce. Diversify your menu choices, and buy local, fresh and organic where possible.

• Use reusable plates and cutlery. It might seem easier to use the paper plates, but you’ll look so much more sophisticated if you use the real things and wash them afterwards.

• Lose the heat lamp. The cool evening air just isn’t supposed to be reheated. We’re doing well enough as it is with global warming.

• Get a keg. Beer tastes much better from a keg than the bottle or can. Serve it in glasses and you won’t have to worry about emptying out those half-drunk cans when you’re clearing up.

Happy Canada Day Garth!

#65 Janice on 06.27.08 at 12:09 pm

Already posted. Try to keep up. — Garth

By Janice on 06.27.08 11:44 am

Sorry about that. I do have trouble keeping up. There is so much garbage and pollution on this blog that one gets filthy trying to wade through it. I find myself having to go wash everything I read this thing.

There’s an easy solution. Leave. — Garth

#66 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 12:11 pm

Oh and by the way, Dion is showing you some real guts starting his tour there. More than I can say for the do Nothing, let Canadians suffer, Prime Minister Harper.

By Randy on 06.27.08 11:05 am

I don’t think he will come to any harm, we’re pretty peaceful out here. He is getting a rough ride on Gormley this morning, says he’ll create green jobs at the university for all those farmers he puts out on the street, nice guy eh. If he get’s elected we will likely seperate with Alberta and B.C. Not a lot of love out here for him today.

They’re making fun of him over calling the P.M. vulgar for saying “screw”, Dion maybe won’t say “screw”, but he is willing to do it to us.

Gord.

#67 Pecked to Death by Ducks on 06.27.08 at 12:13 pm

Dion will bring his message to the Calgary Stampede…that should prove interesting. What’s he competing in?…

Bullriding?

#68 David on 06.27.08 at 12:16 pm

By jwp on 06.27.08 10:18 am

My comments were not so much about the way Garth communicates – but rather what he says.

He has been election fear mongering for months and months “just wait and see” “it will be soon – I promise” “We will take them down soon” ect etc.. How can he expect us to believe anything he says on this subject he has no credability.

I am sure there is a saying about a little boy who cried Wolf. Reminds me a lot of Garth on this subject.

#69 slg on 06.27.08 at 12:18 pm

Ain’t that the truth. The media isn’t there to report fact but to editorialize and promote their own liberal political agenda.

By Janice on 06.26.08 11:57 pm

oh what a brilliant statement – absolutely impressive, insightful, intellectual and full of pertinent debate points….wow!

Lord, give us strength – we need it with sheep like this – gullible and naive.

#70 Janice on 06.27.08 at 12:40 pm

“Why do people insist the media has a liberal bias when almost all of the media is owned by right-wing neo-conservatives? These assertions are simply more neo-con propaganda…pathetic.”

By Robin on 06.27.08 11:58 am

Robin, check this out.

Editorial Headlines from National Newswatch, June 25, 2008

“Canadians want TV debate on Liberals’ carbon tax, poll finds”
“Can `green shift’ alter Quebec climate?”
“Dion’s carbon tax the fairest option for Canada”
“Canada deserves green debate”
OK, Alberta oil producers, start thinking carbon taxes”
“Dion’s green anti-poverty plan”
“Canada can lead on greener path”
“The Green Shift is good for Canada”
“Green Dion: refreshing but flawed”
“Timely warning on climate change”
“Liberals stand fast on shift to green”

Now there’s the left wing media propaganda machine in full force. Not one article that day critiquing the plan.

Where are all those neocon articles that you speak of?

#71 Bel on 06.27.08 at 12:46 pm

The pimpled folk in the CRAP dungeon send this

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/2459/100938

Apparently our dear Garth is a communications guru who reveals that the carbon tax is going to be the ultimate doom for us all!

on the other hand they were stupid enough to link to the blog! yeah for more Google hits and bringing people from con trash to happy liberalism!

#72 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 12:47 pm

This might be helpful for the trolls:

http://www.zmag.org/zgraphics/2733

#73 Bel on 06.27.08 at 12:48 pm

I have to ask Garth, do you feel they love trying to use you as cannon fodder because you stood up to them?

#74 sheila on 06.27.08 at 12:53 pm

As a loyal, patriotic and tax-paying Canadian who salutes the flag, I was recently dismissed by somebody on this blog with these arrogant words:
“If this nation isn’t good enough for you, move to the U.S. where its so ‘free’. Don’t let the border slam you on your way out.”

This response is proof positive that some around here do not really want a dialogue. They simply tell others to move away, as if Canada belonged to them only. This is the height of arrogance, and a dangerous attitude to creep into a democracy where people of honour may also disagree with honour.

To tell people to simply buzz off, or to move away is simply immature and childish.

Such people do not want to interact with other perspectives that they disagree with, but want to have everything in their own way, and a government that sanctions only one point of view.

This is not the Canadian way–to tell people that you disagree with to move away.

How are humans ever going to grow up and learn to get along if they don’t want to discuss or to understand somebody that they don’t agree with, or who challenges their own ideological views?

Folks, we really do need to grow up, and here is a truism. Maturity comes with the acceptance of responsibility.

People never grow up until they are allowed to make decisions for which they must accept responsibility. Otherwise, they will stay in their immature state of dependency on centralist solutions that offer no creativity, and in which the government is the parent, and the average Joe Citizen is forever the child who whines and complains that his parents do not gradually allow him to grow up, and to make more and more of his own decisions.

You folks completely misunderstand me in your one-dimensional mindset on the need for big government solutions to our problems.

I know as much or even more than many of yuo about the perils of individualism, and that no one is an island to himself or herself, and that we need community, networking and connection in order to achieve goals for the common good that we could not achieve as individuals.

The point is that we will only have better governments when we have more self-government, more self-conrol, and more self-discipline in our society. The more self-government that we have, the less do we need government control and external regulations to control our lives.

We will only have better government when we have more human beings who are self-motivated, and who take more responsibilities. In other words, clearly we need more people who will put something into society, and into the community, as opposed to those who simply want to use government to take something out. Otherwise, we will all end up bankrupt, and we will end up with fewer and fewer “haves” and more and more “have nots.”

So we need more of the developing of human potential than we do of bigger and bigger governments, and higher and higher taxation to do for us what many could and should do for ourselves.

I am not against Medicare, forl example, but do we need to pay the medical costs for millionaires? Do these government welfare programs have to be universal and mandatory for all when it is not needed by all?

If you look at our inner city issues, for example, the greatest good is being done by caring citizens and volunteer organizations who are self-motivated. They do more good than all of the government programs, bureaucracies, and welfare solutions combined.

It is the soup kitchens, the shelters, the the houses of refuge that are run by volunteers who care for people. I freely acknowledge that many of the people who work for the government are caring, compassionate people as well, but government bureaucracy is essentially impersonal.

People need more than money. They need a friend, a companion, somebody who will listen to them. I have given my life to trying to help these people–people from the streets, in the prisons, and those who are on the margins of society. I care for people.

a wise politician will recognize that, and look for solutions at the grassroots level rather than the top-down decisions where one size is supposed to fit all, and many people simply fall through the cracks.

In a democracy, we will only have better governments when we have better human beings who put something into society, and don’t simply take something out, and we will only have better human beings when people have more freedom, and must take the primary responsibility for the self-governing and the managing of their lives, and to have compassion and altruism for the less fortunate.

#75 TS on 06.27.08 at 12:56 pm

“Robin, check this out.

Editorial Headlines from National Newswatch, June 25, 2008

“Canadians want TV debate on Liberals’ carbon tax, poll finds”
“Can `green shift’ alter Quebec climate?”
“Dion’s carbon tax the fairest option for Canada”
“Canada deserves green debate”
OK, Alberta oil producers, start thinking carbon taxes”
“Dion’s green anti-poverty plan”
“Canada can lead on greener path”
“The Green Shift is good for Canada”
“Green Dion: refreshing but flawed”
“Timely warning on climate change”
“Liberals stand fast on shift to green”

Now there’s the left wing media propaganda machine in full force. Not one article that day critiquing the plan.

Where are all those neocon articles that you speak of?

By Janice on 06.27.08 12:40 pm”

Janice, I suppose it has NEVER occured to you that Dion’s Green Shift plan is getting positive comment from the press because IT IS ACTUALLY A GOOD, SOLID, WORKABLE PLAN?

It has probably NEVER occured to you that there hasn’t been much critique of the plan because it is actually a well thought out, integrated, pragmatic approach that the country sorely needs.

By default what your post is really saying is that unless the media supports Herr Harper 100% then it must be biased. That is so typical for neoCon bobbleheads… shoot the messenger if the messenger doesn’t agree with your myopic view of the world.

Thanks for making the post BTW… it confirms what intelligent, broad-minded people have come to know about Herr Harper and his supporters, and the dangers of electing another ‘do nothing’, attack dog, Conservative government.

#76 Judy on 06.27.08 at 12:58 pm

Janice: Perhaps if the Con trolls would stop polluting this site you wouldn’t get so “dirty”.
I think you like mucking around.

#77 jwp on 06.27.08 at 1:01 pm

By Janice on 06.27.08 12:40 pm

What an idiot…one can pick any day in history and make it what they like, Janice, for God’s sake grow up, this is stupidity!

#78 Judy on 06.27.08 at 1:01 pm

Harry: The West cry when they’re poor and cry when they’re rich—perhaps if they were middle income earners they would suffer in silence.

#79 TS on 06.27.08 at 1:04 pm

“Already posted. Try to keep up. — Garth

By Janice on 06.27.08 11:44 am

Sorry about that. I do have trouble keeping up. There is so much garbage and pollution on this blog that one gets filthy trying to wade through it. I find myself having to go wash everything I read this thing.

There’s an easy solution. Leave. — Garth

By Janice on 06.27.08 12:09 pm”

Janice… having trouble stepping over your own trail of feces are you? The vast majority of people on this blog would be happy to see you go, ‘sweetie’.

#80 jwp on 06.27.08 at 1:04 pm

I am sure there is a saying about a little boy who cried Wolf. Reminds me a lot of Garth on this subject.

By David on 06.27.08 12:16 pm

What would you say in his situation?
Would you say, I don’t know what is going to happen…he goes with the information he has at the time…I suppose you would like him to play it safe and be a bobble head, well if so, you have the wrong guy…if you don’t like what he has to say, turn off the channel…if you don’t like him, don’t vote for him…pretty simple really!

#81 jwp on 06.27.08 at 1:08 pm

I don’t think he will come to any harm, we’re pretty peaceful out here. He is getting a rough ride on Gormley this morning, says he’ll create green jobs at the university for all those farmers he puts out on the street, nice guy eh. If he get’s elected we will likely seperate with Alberta and B.C. Not a lot of love out here for him today.

They’re making fun of him over calling the P.M. vulgar for saying “screw”, Dion maybe won’t say “screw”, but he is willing to do it to us.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 12:11 pm

LMAO…BC would go with Alberta?
You better check with some BC posters on here, the last time that was brought up, it got shot down. I’ll go with an analogy like David did…”you guys want it your way, or you’ll take your ball and go home”….
Have fun…

#82 Greg W., Oakville on 06.27.08 at 1:09 pm

Hi David on 06.27.08 9:11 am,

Are you saying that PMSH& gang can’t do a good job as Canada’s Government, so they would rather be into an election? Before enough of us figure that out.

PMSH set a fixed election date; them did every thing he could to try and have his Government fall.

So much for, accountable, transparent, good, honest, Government. This PMSH & gang is the worst bunch that I can remember! Almost as bad as PMSH buddy Bush.

It seem to be a shame that we need to wait, so that more of the people can figure out what PMSH has really been up to.

The sooner PMSH & gang go, the better!

PMSH is not working for you or me and the common long team good of all Canadians.
He don’t even seem to care about his own kids future, do you think he cares about your families future?

Who is ‘insane’, who is ‘screwing everyone’? It’s PMSH &gang!!!

‘PMSH & gang have no clothes!’

#83 jwp on 06.27.08 at 1:11 pm

As a loyal, patriotic and tax-paying Canadian who salutes the flag, I was recently dismissed by somebody on this blog with these arrogant words:
“If this nation isn’t good enough for you, move to the U.S. where its so ‘free’. Don’t let the border slam you on your way out.”

This response is proof positive that some around here do not really want a dialogue. They simply tell others to move away, as if Canada belonged to them only. This is the height of arrogance, and a dangerous attitude to creep into a democracy where people of honour may also disagree with honour.
By Sheila…

Would that be akin to “if we don’t get our way, we are taking our ball home?’ That’s seems to be what Gord is suggesting if the country was to elect Dion…then the west would go….I don’t see a lot of difference between the two.

#84 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 1:12 pm

Harper’s latest environmental platform:

http://tinyurl.com/4z5m65

#85 Daryn on 06.27.08 at 1:15 pm

Ex-Canadian…..

Hey, Buzz off you hypocrite. If you are really an “ex-Canadian”, why bother debating on a Canadian political blog?

#86 William Dahl on 06.27.08 at 1:21 pm

The wheels fell off last weekend when CTV’s question period refused to interview the Conservative MP offered by Sandra and insisted on one of two they wanted to interview. This was the first public display by a right wing media outlet that I have seen but was quickly followed by others all week.

By mid week even the Alberta propaganda machine was criticizing Harpers lack of an environmental plan once the story broke that the U.S. will target “dirty oil”. The cow patties have really hit the fan now that both presidential candidates have declared they will tax carbon and there is already legislation in front of congress allowing the states to put up carbon tarriffs on any product or resource not taxed an equal amount in the country of origin. No wonder China and other countries are dropping gas subsidies for no apparent reason!!! Gotta wonder just how big the tax they put in place will be?

My buddy from Alberta and I were joking about pitchforks and torchlight mobs on the bbq crciut for the cons. this summer until he told the following. Once the people in that provence find out they have a whole 35 billion left from all that oil and countries like Norway half a trillion from just a fraction of the sales they will turf the whole works just like when they brought the cons. in about 30 years ago or so.

The big story to watch this summer will be whether a new party emerges along the lines of the block out there or if there is a rebirth of the reform party. It is unlikely that enough Albertans will hold their noses to vote Liberal in protest but the time is right for them to move enmass to somebody new.

I wonder if Garth has the same feeling that conditions are starting to line up like they did a couple of decades ago when the PCs were wiped out including his seat?

#87 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 1:25 pm

LMAO…BC would go with Alberta?
You better check with some BC posters on here, the last time that was brought up, it got shot down. I’ll go with an analogy like David did…”you guys want it your way, or you’ll take your ball and go home”….
Have fun…

By jwp on 06.27.08 1:08 pm

So what? B.C. will do as they please, judging by the news coming out of there lately they don’t like the gas tax after all, maybe they’ll want to take their ball home too.

Gord.

#88 jwp on 06.27.08 at 1:33 pm

a wise politician will recognize that, and look for solutions at the grassroots level rather than the top-down decisions where one size is supposed to fit all, and many people simply fall through the cracks.

In a democracy, we will only have better governments when we have better human beings who put something into society, and don’t simply take something out, and we will only have better human beings when people have more freedom, and must take the primary responsibility for the self-governing and the managing of their lives, and to have compassion and altruism for the less fortunate.

By sheila on 06.27.08 12:53 pm

Now you tell me how a wise politician is going to get elected outside of a party with no funds…and once he gets to Ottawa, he/she cannot serve on a committee? And if that person gets elected within a party, tell me how he is going to vote against what he/she is being told by the party whip on behalf on the leader?
I like your basic idea because in all honesty it conforms with mine but realistically 60% of the voters have absolutely no time to consider issues, they vote for the party, not the person, they are so engaged with their families, driving kids to dance, to the rink, working two jobs etc…they have no time. Sure money isn’t the only thing but most people have a rough time living without it.
And the larger the city, the more frantic the rat race. I went to school in N.B., I have always envied their way of live, the most wonderful and caring people I have ever met in Canada or the U.S. but jobs were so few, in the days I was there, that people had to come to the big cities to make a living.
To expect the kind of shift you are looking for seems very unrealistic especially in the era of politics of personal destruction. It will only come when the underpinings of our society are destroyed and that appears to be on its’ way now. Then people will look for an alternative but the pain during the transition I suggest will be staggering.
As far as volunteer groups dealing with the marginalizedand disadvantaged, that will always be there. People who are engaged there will seldom be found here.
Advesarial politics we have inherited from our neighbours to the South, and here in Ontario, we felt under Mr. Harris, his method was to create a crisis, and then fix it in the manner he deemed appropriate. It appears Mr. Harper has followed the same manner with his handbook on how to destroy parliamentary committees, which were the basis of our democratic system.
The Liberals have done no better in the past when the office of the PM under Chretien became the governing center, and took away the authority of the individual MPs.
In order to achieve what you seem to be suggesting would require the abolition of the party system in Canada

#89 Greg W., Oakville on 06.27.08 at 1:34 pm

Hi Janice on 06.27.08 12:40 pm,

Maybe ‘the green shift’ is just a good plan.
Maybe the informed critical-thinking editors of the news outlets have families, and care what kind of future we are making for them.

#90 R Kehoe on 06.27.08 at 1:47 pm

Be real, the reason Buckler is leaving is so she will not be hampered as a government lobbyist with the new rules that come into effect in 3 days.

#91 R Kehoe on 06.27.08 at 1:55 pm

Wow! You Albertans are bigger cry babies then Quebec…”if we don’t get our way to destroy the planet we will leave”…I ask, where will you go, separate…go! go! go! Nothing but a bunch of cowardly bullies!

#92 TS on 06.27.08 at 2:24 pm

Some breaking news about climate change and global warming impacts….

North Pole ice may completely melt away this summer

For the first time in modern history, the North Pole may be iceless this summer. Scientists say it’s an even bet that sea ice in the region will completely disappear in the next few months, perhaps as soon as August.

CTV.ca News Staff

Ice at the North Pole quickly and significantly melted away last year, and that may be causing further melting this summer. Scientists say the disappearance of long-term and thicker ice formed over the years has disappeared. Now, most of the ice that’s left is seasonal ice, which melts away much more quickly during warm weather.

“This year there is a lot of young ice. There’s always some, but this year there’s a lot,” Andy Mahoney, a researcher at the University of Colorado’s National Snow and Ice Data Center, told CTV.ca.

Satellite observations indicate the ice remaining at the poles is melting faster than last year’s rate, which was already a record year for Arctic ice loss. Scientists say whether or not the ice melts completely, this year’s northern melt is yet another example of the impact that global warming is having on the planet’s environment.

“There were some people who were saying last year was a rogue year. If the same thing happens again a lot more people are going to be persuaded about the consequences of global warming,” Mahoney said.

“A lot of people think it’s a very small change in temperature. This shows that the change in sea ice is quite a dramatic consequence.”

As the ice melts, interest in the region is intensifying. Canada and other nations that border the Arctic — including Russia and the U.S. — are scrambling to lay claims to vast parts of the area, which may someday allow new resource development and shipping lanes.

“If the North Pole melts, then you don’t have to worry about the Northwest Passage. It will still be significant, but going on top of the globe would be politically easier,” Mahoney said.

A UN panel is supposed to decide on control of the Arctic by 2020. Last year, Canada’s Conservative government announced plans to acquire up to eight Arctic patrol ships and to build an army base in Resolute Bay and a naval station in Nanisivik.

Under the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Arctic countries have 10 years after ratification to prove their claims under the largely uncharted polar ice pack. All countries with claims to the Arctic have ratified the treaty, with the exception of the United States.

#93 David on 06.27.08 at 2:29 pm

By jwp on 06.27.08 1:04 pm

If he Garth doesnt know then he shouldnt comment on it. Its Dions (with the agreement of teh two other opposition parties)decision to bring down the Government or not. Garth has clearly shown that he has no infulence in Mr. Dion in this situation therefore he should stop being a fear monger saying its going to happen.

Every time he has said the Gov was goingto fall Dion has supported the Government on confindence motions.

Its now easy to say we are going to bring the Gov down as it cannot happen until late September – Stop with the BS already.

Calling for an election is only “fearmongering” if you are afraid of one. I’m not. Sorry you are. — Garth

#94 Mary on 06.27.08 at 2:34 pm

It seems as though Mr. Dion has vannished.

He did the editorial board of the Globe yesterday and Regina radio today. BTW, where is Mr. Harper? — Garth

#95 brain on 06.27.08 at 2:46 pm

By barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 2:23 am

Actually, I didn’t enjoy it. Its a post that was mean, quite frankly, making me ask whether or not I need anger management. All emotions aside, the logic was sound and certainly, she earned it, angry logical or otherwise.

By sheila on 06.27.08 12:53 pm

“As a loyal, patriotic and tax-paying Canadian who salutes the flag, I was recently dismissed by somebody on this blog with these arrogant words:
“If this nation isn’t good enough for you, move to the U.S. where its so ‘free’. Don’t let the border slam you on your way out.”

This response is proof positive that some around here do not really want a dialogue.” – Shiela

What, 10,000 words worth of long winded (as per usual) posts by myself towards you isn’t enough? (shaking my head) And perhaps if you weren’t so intent on ditzing our fine nation, you wouldn’t hear such words.

“They simply tell others to move away, as if Canada belonged to them only.” – Sheila

Another fallacy by yourself and it wouldn’t be the first.

This is the height of arrogance, and a dangerous attitude to creep into a democracy where people of honour may also disagree with honour. – Shiela

All you’ve done here is go on about how this nation is so controlled and “unfree”. Its hypocritical to say the least, what you are now saying.

“To tell people to simply buzz off, or to move away is simply immature and childish.” – Shiela

Really going the mileage on just one sentence from thousands, aren’t you?

“Such people do not want to interact with other perspectives that they disagree with, but want to have everything in their own way, and a government that sanctions only one point of view. – Sheila

More hypocracy from you, to be expected, I guess.

This is not the Canadian way–to tell people that you disagree with to move away. – Shiela

You ought to try, Shiela, to read your own words of your version of the “Canadian way” and how we should live.

“How are humans ever going to grow up and learn to get along if they don’t want to discuss or to understand somebody that they don’t agree with, or who challenges their own ideological views?” – Shiela

Still honing in on that one sentence, eh? What about the rest of the post, Shiela. What about the thousands of words spent on the CWB? Thats what my comment was about, and the CWB has been an icon of Canada, I might add. What about the comment I was really referring to? If you really want that debate you so crave, why be so mum, all you can do is hone in on one line? Why so limited in your thinking, that this is the absolute best you can do?

“Folks, we really do need to grow up, and here is a truism. Maturity comes with the acceptance of responsibility.” – Shiela

When you show some maturity, people will begin to take you seriously and mabye give you some acceptance and responsibility.

“People never grow up until they are allowed to make decisions for which they must accept responsibility. – Sheila

Thanks for talking down to us like were all children, now. Thanks.

“Otherwise, they will stay in their immature state of dependency on centralist solutions that offer no creativity, and in which the government is the parent, and the average Joe Citizen is forever the child who whines and complains that his parents do not gradually allow him to grow up, and to make more and more of his own decisions.” – Shiela

More parental words from wise parent Shiela concerning our controlling, unfree nation. Thanks again.

“You folks completely misunderstand me in your one-dimensional mindset on the need for big government solutions to our problems.” – Shiela

Like smaller goverment is better government? Like doing less is doing more? Uh-huh. We get it, Shiela. Again, you should live south where you got your thinking, its where it all came from.

“I know as much or even more than many of yuo about the perils of individualism, and that no one is an island to himself or herself, and that we need community, networking and connection in order to achieve goals for the common good that we could not achieve as individuals.” – Shiela

Yeah… sure. About you being superior to most if not all of us on being an individual, we get that too!

“The point is that we will only have better governments when we have more self-government, more self-conrol, and more self-discipline in our society. The more self-government that we have, the less do we need government control and external regulations to control our lives. – Shiela

Here we go again! Lets everyone just do whatever we want! Whoopie, let the good times roll! Shiela’s saying we don’t need regulations, for profit individuals and corporations and self interest groups don’t need standards or regs, we’re all beyond that now! Less government is better government, let the good times roll!!!! Everyone, we can just police ourselves now, Shiela’s got a better way!

“We will only have better government when we have more human beings who are self-motivated, and who take more responsibilities. In other words, clearly we need more people who will put something into society, and into the community, as opposed to those who simply want to use government to take something out. Otherwise, we will all end up bankrupt, and we will end up with fewer and fewer “haves” and more and more “have nots.” – Shiela

So… correct me if I’m wrong, but, what you are saying is that we will all be better off if we don’t use government programs. Things just don’t happen that are beyond our control, is what you are saying, little things like GM plant shutdowns will never happen if all just practice, you know, a little “self control”.

So we need more of the developing of human potential than we do of bigger and bigger governments, and higher and higher taxation to do for us what many could and should do for ourselves. – Shiela

I get it. We all maximize human potential, and we will have no further need of governments. LOL!

“I am not against Medicare, forl example, but do we need to pay the medical costs for millionaires? Do these government welfare programs have to be universal and mandatory for all when it is not needed by all? – Shiela

My God, God, Barb, regulars et el., she really is on the National Citizens Coalition payroll!! Shiela, go back to yesterdays post from myself and insert CWB with medicare and read it again. You can take out the “I’m pissed” line this time and replace it with “I’m feeling sorry for someone who’s clearly so brainwashed (or mabye just bought)”, its more apt.

“If you look at our inner city issues, for example, the greatest good is being done by caring citizens and volunteer organizations who are self-motivated. They do more good than all of the government programs, bureaucracies, and welfare solutions combined.” – Shiela

Do you have any idea how overwelmed they’d be without social assistence, EI and other social spending, do you any friggin’ clue?

“It is the soup kitchens, the shelters, the the houses of refuge that are run by volunteers who care for people. I freely acknowledge that many of the people who work for the government are caring, compassionate people as well, but government bureaucracy is essentially impersonal.” – Shiela

And what you see is a tenth of it Shiela, a mere tenth. Nine tenths of the social assistance in terms of resouces comes from welfare cheques, EI, fed, provincial, municipal grants, do you have any idea where the true financial breakdown from government to private really is?

Again, I asked you to make one simple distinction yesterday, just one and that was between the system (which has no heart beat) and the people that work within the system. Are you going to tell us that the lawmakers of the land like the Honorable MP Garth Turner have no heart? As this what you are saying, that if human sufferage raises its voice, it falls on the deaf ears of a system? Deaf ears on a Harper government, maybe because they have been instrumental in those govy cuts to social spending specifically with minorities and boards.

Do you have any clue whatsoever as to what goverment money is actually spent on with healthcare? 70% is public while 30% of healthcare is private. Did you know this? Do you know how much our education systems cost goverment and what would happen to such systems if someone like yourself was actually given serious consideration?

“People need more than money. They need a friend, a companion, somebody who will listen to them. I have given my life to trying to help these people–people from the streets, in the prisons, and those who are on the margins of society. I care for people.” – Shiela

I hear all kinds of people say this, that and the other and hate to break it to you, it doesn’t make it true. Sheila, we can pretty much be anything we want to be online, but… as time goes on, people pretty much end up knowing who they are not just by claims like your own, but by what they say they believe in, by what they do, their consistency, Shiela. There consistency is what counts and thats something to build on. All I’ve heard from you since making an appearance this last month or so, is how “cream of the crop” you are.

People that take the high road, Shiela, for what its worth, don’t have the time to brag like you do, don’t have the time for pride or even to take credit, they’re too busy fighting the injustices of the world.

But some of us, in case you haven’t noticed, are retired. Or we have the time in our schedules to drop a line on a site such as this, because we have an actual appreciation for “the system” because we know just how much so “the system” conditions us, not even so much with its presence or what it is designed to do (now if only we had a federal government that would practice
the true intentions of that design with openness, transparency, accountability, principles, you know, serve the public will instead of their partisan, selfish selves) but what would happen, Shiela, if “the system” didn’t exist at all.

You speak of the “system” as being too inhibitive, too controlling, and yet you totally dismiss the human component within that system. You completely dismiss the practices of the people that impliment the laws of the system itself. Hate to break it to you, you can’t have one without the other.

And for someone like yourself who claims to be a caregiver, out on the streets, how could you have missed the “conditioning effects” of what happens when the system breaks down, or has flaws in the design, or in reality, what the conditioning effects are with, for example, the charter of human rights, or mere fact that women are now allowed to vote.

Look at the human example of how women have been treated over the last 5,000 years. Nothing has genetically changed, Shiela. The system has changed and with it, the system has enshrined human rights and gender rights where there was such rights before. Has it conditioned society to have such rights instilled and practiced? As the old generations die and are replaced by new ones who don’t have the same bias, angst, predjudice, sexism, racism, the same hate, you’re up and going to tell us all that we don’t need the system anymore, that we don’t need such “conditioning?”

Are you so foolish as to believe that humanity just someday up and evolved on its own with these issues without the help of the system itself, the system that has in its own right evolved from lawmakers who really do have a heart that beats?

C’mon.

If you are who you say you are, by all means, use some vision that see’s past your own nose for a change and grow up.

A wise politician will recognize that, and look for solutions at the grassroots level rather than the top-down decisions where one size is supposed to fit all, and many people simply fall through the cracks. – Shiela

Wise politicians have, shiela. Minority rights, FN rights, gender rights, disabled rights, individual property owner rights, human rights, Immigrant rights, are you to expect us to believe we haven’t had wise politicians in the past? Look at our tax structure. Who gets taxed the most/least?

And too, hate to burst your bubble, but we’ve also had wise politicians who believe in equality, that all children, teens and adults have the right to an education. That all citizens have the right to be protected from guns through some form of gun control. Again, check out our laws of this land and if you don’t like them, there’s a border south, you can cross it, dip your toe in southern waters and if you consider it to be so “free” of government control, by all means, apply for citizenship. (but something tells me you already live there)

In a democracy, we will only have better governments when we have better human beings who put something into society, and don’t simply take something out, and we will only have better human beings when people have more freedom, and must take the primary responsibility for the self-governing and the managing of their lives, and to have compassion and altruism for the less fortunate. – Shiela

Thanks for those wonderful words from our spiritual guru, Shiela, God love her, she certainly, at least, waxes the poetic. Of course, she just said that true slaves are lesser human beings, that humans can’t be better humans unless they are free, that those like the jailed Mandellas are lesser humans until they are free, free to take on the responsibilities that come with such freedoms and to care with compassion for those who were once prisoners and slaves beside them.

Products of our own environment vs born that way… what do you all think?

And how much juice were we packin’ before we landed on this rock?

Just ask Garths guru Shiela, she’s got it all figured out.

#96 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 2:55 pm

They’re making fun of him over calling the P.M. vulgar for saying “screw”, Dion maybe won’t say “screw”, but he is willing to do it to us.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 12:11 pm

Do you ever engage your brain before beaking off such childish nonsense ?
Get a grip .

#97 jwp on 06.27.08 at 2:56 pm

So what? B.C. will do as they please, judging by the news coming out of there lately they don’t like the gas tax after all, maybe they’ll want to take their ball home too.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 1:25 pm

I doubt it and I doubt anyone else will as well…and if they do, that’s life, would be sad to see a great country split apart but that is the CPC agenda, to divide…they have been doing it all along pitting one region against another, so we shall see but I give Canadians more credit than that.

#98 David Halfkenny on 06.27.08 at 2:58 pm

This is the first time in life I have seen someone who just hates everyone. They are all so bad and of course you are just perfect. Why dont you give us all a break for once and let people form their own opinions. What a sore head.

#99 persona sine ingenio on 06.27.08 at 3:13 pm

Thanks Brain for your 2:46.

I’d also like to thank Sheila for taking time out of washing lepers’ feet to remind us of how unworthy we are for being concerned and wanting to find structural ways to improve the lots of our fellows, be they here, in war zones or in barrios or ghettos around the world. As with organizing ourselves to confront climate change, the issues of social justice and economic sustainability need our best efforts in finding ways forward, and these will take research and funding, which require prioritizing and directing in a centralized manner, much as fighting a war requires a centralized authority. The problems seem to be that overwhelming.

Sheila, plese spend some time in our shoes. Read books like Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine”, or Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States” to get an idea of where our mistrust of our betters comes from.

And in case you missed him in concert this summer, enjoy this take on Leonard Cohen’s “Everybody Knows”.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=leonard+cohen+everybody+knows&hl=en&sitesearch=#

#100 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 3:17 pm

They’re making fun of him over calling the P.M. vulgar for saying “screw”, Dion maybe won’t say “screw”, but he is willing to do it to us.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 12:11 pm

Do you ever engage your brain before beaking off such childish nonsense ?
Get a grip .

By Men With Hats on 06.27.08 2:55 pm

Don’t shoot the messenger, I was just relaying what I heard on the radio.

Gord.

#101 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 3:21 pm

I doubt it and I doubt anyone else will as well…and if they do, that’s life, would be sad to see a great country split apart but that is the CPC agenda, to divide…they have been doing it all along pitting one region against another, so we shall see but I give Canadians more credit than that.

By jwp on 06.27.08 2:56 pm

Go here and listen to all or any part of Gormley June 27th if you want to hear the sentiment expressed in Saskatchewan today, sounds like Carbon Tax is going to be pretty divisive to me.

http://www.newstalk980.com/ondemand

Gord.

#102 jwp on 06.27.08 at 3:23 pm

If he Garth doesnt know then he shouldnt comment on it. Its Dions (with the agreement of teh two other opposition parties)decision to bring down the Government or not. Garth has clearly shown that he has no infulence in Mr. Dion in this situation therefore he should stop being a fear monger saying its going to happen.

Every time he has said the Gov was goingto fall Dion has supported the Government on confindence motions.

Its now easy to say we are going to bring the Gov down as it cannot happen until late September – Stop with the BS already.

Calling for an election is only “fearmongering” if you are afraid of one. I’m not. Sorry you are. — Garth

By David on 06.27.08 2:29 pm

Well that is a pretty silly stance, if he doesn’t know he shouldn’t say anything…does that go for everyone here…I thought we were a free nation and entitled to have an opinion. You have yours, I didn’t see anyone telling you that you shouldn’t post it, and even if they did, you still have that right. You obviously have no idea why Garth returned to politics. Try looking at the things he champions like income splitting for the middle class etc…if he was in it for his own personal gain, he wouldn’t be as abrasive with some people…the first e-mail I ever received from him near burned the page. Something about “biting ankles” but he was right. I think that is what annoys you more than anything, not his predictions, but because he tells it like it is. If we had more MPs like Garth, just maybe we would have a better government. As far as anyone having influence with the party leader, that just doesn’t happen in today’s environment. At least he is able to have some input in the caucus, something that doesn’t seem very prevalent on the other side.
You tell me another MP who would allow you this kind of discourse…

#103 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 3:26 pm

I am not against Medicare – do we need to pay the medical costs for millionaires?

BY SHEILA ON 06.27.08 12:53 PM
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

I am SO glad you asked that. So I’ll ask you something first. Why is it that my next door neighbour, who is a millionaire, receives Harper’s $1,200 personal election bribery scheme?

You talk about Medicare without having researched independent studies around the world. I have, for years. You tell your tale as lobbyist like Harper. His lobbyist group, he was president, was set up 40 years ago to lobby to maim and to try to make ineffective our public healthcare, so their corporate private medicine giants could move in for the kill.

So I’ll answer your question in part. The rest is up to you.

The real answer is for politicians to get some guts. We need to properly pay our doctors, nurses and healthcare workers and get on with it. Quit falling for corporate lies. That’s what those types of politicians want you to do, for the sake of their lobbyist cronies.

Public universal healthcare keeps the profits and recycles the them back into the system. It is more cost effective. There is no simpler math. It is the simple truth that Harper doesn’t want you to know, because he actually believes the corporate lies from privateers.

Our system is in trouble due to a systematic challenges to it by greedy privateers and their lobbyist, who get to politicians, or worse, become them.. It’s been happening for decades, and we suffer needlessly, as they set us up for their home run. What do you think that hospital blowing up was about. Dramatics. That was 12 years ago. STILL no replacement hospital. All part of the dangerous squeeze, to get us to let go of our ideals of fairness.

There are the decades of studies, and countries all over the world who are so upset that they fell for these Big Medicare Schemes to privatize healthcare. They drown in costs, sucked up by big medical interests. And still the doctors and nurses are underpaid and care has worsened. They were victims of the big scam to defraud us of our good ideals.

· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Here’s what PRIVATE medical does to a country:

Medical costs go up, not down, because the profits line private pockets, instead of going back into the public system. Makes sense, huh.

Quality of care goes down, as the greedy medical corporations pocket the profits and want more. They salivate over the public funds they can drain out of us, just as any corporation does. It’s that simple. They cut costs because it’s their bottom that counts.

The wait times and line-ups at emergency get longer, and longer. [Oh, at initial set-up, the early MOMENTS of instituting such commercial medicine, the line-ups look good for a few minutes, while the show is being sold to us. But it's hollow. Reality is, the ballooning costs of free enterprise.. also known as greed, blow up and up. People wait, people die. Same with a few so-called studies that are fixed to claim wait times went down. I know the people who participated, and they have lied to my face. I know them to be liars, so I speak with confidence. I have seen them with their politician friends. I am witness.]

It is getting harder and harder to search through the new disinformation, because Big Medicine knows how to fill the internet search hits with drivel – they send people off target. I’ve noticed that change in the last ten years. Truth is getting buried, and the bullies win. You are listening to them, that’s proof.

I’ll send you freely to read sites from real medical workers, real world studies, real people who are concerned and outraged that we get sold a bill of goods by traitors like Harper.

I’m glad you asked, Sheila.

· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Please note that ‘millionaires’ help us keep public healthcare costs down. If you remove them from the equation, you are “CREAMING” the system, the old adage of removing the cream from the top. The cost for the “bottom” 99 percent of us, then suffers the numbers in many ways. As an example, boutique doctors, who only see the rich.. if we lose them from the formaula.. we lose many doctors we paid to educate. You have to look at the whole picture and not cherry pick points that just sound good. Some patients are apparently more “inconvenient” than others.

· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

“Let us not make the mistake of misusing the wealth of evidence that strongly supports a public health-care system like Canadian medicare.”
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/257556

“The international experience with private surgical facilities is that they tend to charge higher prices for the same surgery in a publicly-funded hospital. Much higher.”
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/12/08/PrivateSurgery/

“Details of a particularly horrific case emerged last week when the Associated Press reported that a 41-year-
old paraplegic man wearing a soiled hospital gown was left on a Los Angeles skid row sidewalk by the
driver of a hospital van. According to police, the man — disoriented and trying to propel himself along with
his hands — was carrying a plastic bag of his belongings in his teeth and trailing a broken colostomy bag.
The man was still wearing his wristband from the Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center, the name on the
van that dumped him.

Although it’s not a term with which Canadians are overly familiar, “patient dumping” is an actual
phenomenon in the U.S., where some patients are apparently more inconvenient than others. But
it’s a phenomenon with which Canadians should make themselves acquainted, since it contains the seeds of
interesting lessons”

http://www.healthcoalition.ca/jk2007.pdf

#104 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 3:35 pm

He did the editorial board of the Globe yesterday and Regina radio today. BTW, where is Mr. Harper? — Garth

By Mary on 06.27.08 2:34 pm

In a bunker .

#105 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 3:39 pm

Selling Armageddon

A fine line exists between useful information,public relations, and propaganda designed to silence the proletariat .
To sow confusion,doubt and angst on an issue as important as global survival .
Major corporations like Exxon Mobil and the nuclear and coal lobbies are forever muddying the waters with spurious rhetoric and phoney scientific evidence.
* climate change is real;
* it is caused by human activity; and
* it is threatening the planet in ways we can only begin to imagine.
On the other hand, you have an ongoing public debate – not about how to respond, but about whether we should bother, about whether climate change is even a scientific certainty.

Few propaganda offences have been so obvious, so successful and so despicable as the attack on the scientific certainty of climate change.

The trick to executing a good PR campaign is twofold: you figure out what people are thinking already; and then you nudge them gently from that position to one that is closer to where you want them to be. The first step is research: you find out what they know and understand; you identify the specific gaps in their knowledge. Then you fill those gaps with a purpose-built campaign. You educate. If people are afraid to fly(as they were after 9/11 ) tou tell them of the extensive security precautions that have been enacted .
If people think Stephane Dion is arrogant and uncaring and not a leader, you create opportunities for him to show a more human side.,a softer side as it were .
If they want to convince the public that they’re running a responsible government and doing the right thing, the most obvious public relations advice is that they should do the right thing.In all circumstances .
few PR offences have been so obvious, so successful and so despicable as the attack on the scientific certainty of climate change.

Few have been so coldly calculating and few have been so well documented. For example, Ross Gelbspan, in his books, The Heat is On and Boiling Point sets out the whole case, pointing fingers and naming names. PR Watch founder John Stauber has done similarly exemplary work, tracking the bogus campaigns and linking various pseudo scientists to their energy industry funders.
Between the poles of real-time catastrophe and nonevent lies the prevailing scientific view: Without big changes in emissions rates, global warming from the buildup of greenhouse gases is likely to lead to substantial, and largely irreversible, transformations of climate, ecosystems and coastlines later this century.

Part one of three

#106 A.R.Wainwright on 06.27.08 at 3:50 pm

Ain’t that the truth. The media isn’t there to report fact but to editorialize and promote their own liberal political agenda.

By Janice on 06.26.08 11:57 pm

Ok Janice, put up or shut up!
Name me ANY newspaper chain that is not OWNED by a friend of The Neo-Cons.
The Toronto Star MAY be but certainly none in the west. We have the “Black chain” (Ya, they’d be Liberal. When hell freezes over) Then there is “Can west Global” (David is a close friend of PMSH) Then there is CTV. Try to convince ANYONE that they are not PMSH supporters. Rogers??? YA, RRRIIIGGGHHHTTT.

You Neo-Cons think we are fools that will fall for this lie, but in reality it is you for trying to spread this BULLSHIT about a “Liberal bias.
The only place for this is out in the farmers field making the grass grow.

We know.

#107 Johnny on 06.27.08 at 3:53 pm

It seems as though Mr. Dion has vannished.

By Mary on 06.27.08 2:34 pm

I admire Dion. He’s made of the right stuff!

#108 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 3:55 pm

BY BRAIN 06.27.08 2:46 PM

Brain,

You put it all so well. I’m glad.

If it’s a real human, or if it’s a troll, hopefully they’ll ponder for a moment, and see the dizzying truth that they’ve been duped. Haven’t we all at some point.

#109 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 3:58 pm


World according to Garth .

On his cowboy boots habit: “You never know when you might get into a bar fight.”

#110 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 4:13 pm

“she really is on the National Citizens Coalition payroll!!”

Brain,

I wonder how many people get a chance to look up the NCC and Harper’s involvement? Past President of… speaches to the nasty boys U.S. ultra-groups, funded his election.. etc.

The fact that it’s a corporation lobby group, and not “citizens” at all… THAT should be the first clue for all Canadians to set off those alarm bells.

My computer froze after visiting CPC Death Star’s big eye.

Ps. Nature and Nuture. My religiously-raised friends seem to be the least able to adapt to life. That’s the point of that, make them compliant from childhood. Well known. Such a clamping down of good minds – no wonder they get all messed up about who is free and what freedom actually feels like. The wealthy have known these are good tools, since humans first dreamt up these simple ways to enslave others, through fear and ignorance. I wonder what the world would be like if we could stop the lies of the control freaks?

#111 brain on 06.27.08 at 4:13 pm

By Daryn on 06.27.08 10:26 am

And to everyone else!!!!!

What has me extremely leary with Jim Prentice is that Harper chose him for his cabinet.

Keep in mind some of the MP’s that have been overlooked that Harper could have chosen. Instead, he’s chosen unelected officials (Fortier) and crooked floor crossers (Emerson) of which, in my view, there is no one more crooked as a politician than David Emerson (other than perhaps the NCC lobbyist, Harper himself). If the Cons truly think Emerson is re-electable in Kingsway, they can think again. Even if they move him to a “safe riding”, Emerson will go down in flames and why? Because before the election is over, the electorate in his riding will know just how crooked David Emerson really is.

Anyways, enough of Emerson (for now). Point is, Harper has picked a cabinet of which he is able to control, without question through the appeal of self interests, blind service or greed.

3/4’s of his original cabinet had a career in communications. This didn’t happen by accident. Harpers entire philosphy is to “control the message”. If a scientist speaks out against a do nothing climate change policy, get out the muzzle. If an MP speaks out, shut him/her up and Sandra Buckler was extremely effective with this. The Harper party is so effective with this, we were doing military offensives in Afghanistan a full year before the public had a clue. Much of this was hidden from their own party, I might add but thats how it is. Was it ever supposed to be that way? Only MP’s who knew what freedom is (MP’s like Garth) would have rebelled and rightly so.

Control the message, and there is no issue… other than the issue of the lack of transparency itself of which the oft told Republican line is, “its in our nations best interest not to know.” And I hate to break it to some who believe this lie, but these are public servants, we have EVERY SINGLE RIGHT AS TAXPAYERS AND VOTERS TO KNOW!!!

The bottom line is that all good/bad governments rest on two crucial areas: 1) Policy/legislation
2) Governance: Day to day governmental decisions in cabinet, riding offices, committees, media, the works.

If anyone knows what the second area takes, its a journeyman like Garth so pay attention to what this MP has to say because his daily pieces illustrate just what those daily duties of an MP are and “the message” is critical in fulfilling those obligations to the consituents under which MP’s serve.

The Harper party message? There isn’t one other than the Harper message. Policy? Bend over backwards to corporations, particularly U.S. multinationals. Folks, this should come as no surprise. Its always been about Market share. People talk about Canada/U.S relations being friendly and such, no trade wars, open your eyes if you have them closed. Since Canada became a sovereign nation, since the beginning, the U.S. has been our competitors both in buying and selling to foreign markets, and in owning market share of our own economic sectors.

We talk about protection of certain sectors, the banking industry, health care, insurance, agriculture sales, the film industry, broadcasting with the CBC, crown corps, people, THINK!!! These sectors are all protected from foreign ownership for major good reasons! Our economical and national sovereignty is at major risk with Harper, always was and its outlined with his assault on these protected sectors including this governments very institution with every decision he has made from policy to the daily governmental affairs of each MP, cabinet minister and the party as a whole.

Folks, Harpers agenda is as hidden as his presidency with the National Citizens Coalition for 5 years. In 1993, they gave him 50 grand to be elected (which today, is no longer legal, thank god). And who is the NCC? A large group of U.S. multinationals with the backing of the Republican party (and vice/versa, welcome to corporate america) with the sole aim to penetrate Canadian markets to increase if not dominate market share in every sector, protected or not.

Harper’s agenda is not hidden, its right here.

http://nationalcitizens.ca/cgi-bin/oms.cgi?rm=show_category&cid=1

And here:

http://nationalcitizens.ca/cgi-bin/oms.cgi?rm=show_product&pid=2

A clip:

Financial Accountability
Canada needs to cut big government spending, find innovative ways to get a better return on our health-care investments, and allow Canadians to keep more of the money they earn.

Representative Accountability
Canadians need to push for a democratically elected senate, a strong military, a privatized CBC and more direct democracy.

Individual Freedoms and Responsibility
Canada needs to entrench property rights, repeal the gag law and end the Wheat Board monopoly. Canada needs to restore rights to union workers, end CRTC censorship and restore language rights to English speaking Quebeckers.

And keep in mind that Harper has had no issues with any past/present NCC agenda’s, including campaigns against gun control, Boat people refugees, Bilingualism, the NEP, in short every divisive issue in Canada for the end game is to divide and conquer for U.S. corporate market share.

Thats why decentralization of federal powers is a Harper top priority. Get rid of the Senate or get them elected (easier to bribe that way, concentrate powers that can be bought). Chop federal powers to its knees through the passing over of powers to the provinces. Weaken the nation as a whole to take over the provinces one by one. Alta. Quebec. BC. Any province that can be bought, media/goverment or otherwise. And all that it takes to make it happen, dear readers, are crooked/treasonous MP’s and MP’s with no voice.

So one really has to ask what what in it for Sandra Buckler to have served the way she did all this time. Same goes for Flanagan. And Doug Finley. And Ian Brodie. And any other MP or journalist who would blindly believe in a brand over the people that make up that brand. And all I can say to that is that the Sheila’s of the world really do exist. That some people feel so good at the job they can do, so good with their “personal accomplishments”, that they forget just what it is that they have done for/or to others.

Hasn’t anyone ever heard of the word REGRESSION?

People like Andrew Coyne have caught on to why the Conservative party dropped the word “Progressive” before it.

Its time voters did as well or whether or not we believe its times of peace, we are economical war with a nation of CEO’s who want to own us. Thats the way it is with the insatiable appetite of Greed driven by ego/pride and the sooner we rise as patriots, as a people who know the true distinction between the systems of governance that make that invisible line (U.S./Canada border) visible, the better off we’ll all be.

So I’m asking you all, begging you, telling you, whatever works, that U.S. foreign policy has always worked this way: They ask a foreign government for something. Maybe nicely, maybe not. If that doesn’t work, they try bribes. If that doesn’t work, they try threats. If that doesn’t work, they try a coup (enter Stephen Harper). If that doesn’t work, they count beans, ask themselves if they can “control the message” and try war.

And until things change in corporate America, with the mindsets of CEO’s and Politicians south of the line… we will not be at peace.

#112 AToryNoMore on 06.27.08 at 4:15 pm

Ahh..What’s up doc?

Why are some of the key people leaving the PMO?

Is this a symptom of something else?

Do they not see a future electoral win?

Are other less well knowns leaving and where are they going?

Have any MP’s told Harper that they will not be running in the next election?

#113 A.R.Wainwright on 06.27.08 at 4:24 pm

Now there’s the left wing media propaganda machine in full force. Not one article that day critiquing the plan.

Where are all those neocon articles that you speak of?

By Janice on 06.27.08 12:40 pm

Maybe, just maybe THERE is NO OTHER PLAN!
An especially from your hero. The lier.
OH,OH, I called him a lier again. Coward still is not suing me.
(Is it because he will LOOSE.)
(You can’t be sued for the truth)

#114 David on 06.27.08 at 4:31 pm

By Greg W., Oakville on 06.27.08 1:09 pm

No – what I am saying is the pm legislated the next election for oct 2009. Garth has been saying there is going to be an election soon ever since. he should either recognise that the election will be oct 2009 or vote to defeat the Gov.

Saying its going to be soon but doing nothing to facilitate it just makes him look like a litle cry baby.

#115 Bonnie N BC on 06.27.08 at 4:31 pm

So what? B.C. will do as they please, judging by the news coming out of there lately they don’t like the gas tax after all, maybe they’ll want to take their ball home too.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 1:25 pm

Gord, Gord, Gord..

Premier Campbell is sometimes conservative blue and sometimes tory red (never liberal)- that’s why we in BC are in many cases cynical of his new found green conscience.

But I assure you, a BC separatist movement would not happen in our province.

Alberta, we need to wait and see.

#116 Lawrence on 06.27.08 at 4:34 pm

Brain asks: “Products of our own environment vs born that way… what do you all think?”

I think you talk waaay too much. 2400 words in that self-absorbed diatribe and that’s hardly your first. Apparently you’re scolding Sheila for something but – really – who has the time to read it all.

Sheila’s point is entirely valid and I’ve made the same one myself; if your argument boils down to “Yankee go home” then you don’t understand the values you claim to embrace.

#117 David on 06.27.08 at 4:42 pm

By jwp on 06.27.08 2:56 pm

What BS

The seperatist movement is weeker than it has been in over a decade. That is down to one man and his policies – PMSH.

Whatever you think about his policies, you cannot deny than the country is more unified than at any time under Martin or Cretien.

#118 Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 at 5:10 pm

Link attached — current Shuttle pix. Seems Canada is not such a ‘ratshit country’ as the heavenly deadbeat terrorist hairy describes!
****************************************
These are INCREDIBLE! Notice the HUGE CANADA LOGO!

After you open the link be sure and hit the F11 button, makes the pictures high def. Some of these pictures will take your breath away.

They are the best I have seen. These are just in from the current (just landed) space mission.

http://wwwtexasjim.com/NASApix/NASA%20pix.htm

Either Alt+F4 to quit the pix or F11 to log out.
****************************************
By ex-canadian on 06.26.08 10:59 pm

If you’re NOT a Canadian and / or DON’T even live here, then why bother to post your drivel on a Cdn. site?

A rethuglikan dressed in sheep’s clothing, maybe? Wot a waste of humanity you are.
****************************************
WW in the KDC:

“All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.” — Galileo Galilei

Most here have already discovered “truths” the hard way since harpo and cronies took the helm (temporarily), and these folk are the ones who will strongly encourage all Cdns. to make sure and vote Libs. in, but especially CRAP out for ever.

#119 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 5:15 pm

“The debate is over about whether or not climate change is real. Irrefutable evidence from around the world – including extreme weather events, record temperatures, retreating glaciers, and rising sea levels – all point to the fact climate change is happening now and at rates much faster than previously thought. The overwhelming majority of scientists that study climate change agree that human activity is responsible for changing the climate. The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is one of the largest bodies of international scientists ever assembled to study a scientific issue, comprised of more than 2,000 scientists from 100 countries. The IPCC has concluded that most of the warming observed during the past 50 years is attributable to human activities. Its findings have been publicly endorsed by the national academies of science of all G-8 countries, as well as those of China, India and Brazil. The Royal Society of Canada – together with the national academies of fifteen other nations – also issued a joint statement on climate change that stated, in part: “The work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) represents the consensus of the international scientific community on climate change science. We recognize IPCC as the world’s most reliable source of information on climate change.”
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/Science/Skeptics.asp

#120 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 5:17 pm

“Who are the climate change skeptics?

Despite the international scientific community’s consensus on climate change, a very small band of critics continues to deny that climate change exists or that humans are causing it. Widely known as climate change “skeptics” or “deniers”, these individuals are generally not climate scientists and do not debate the science with the climate scientists directly – for example, by publishing in peer-reviewed scientific journals or participating in international conferences on climate science. Instead, they focus their attention on the media, the general public, and policy makers with the goal of delaying action on climate change.

Not surprisingly, the skeptics have received significant funding from coal and oil companies, including ExxonMobil. They also have well-documented connections with public relations firms that have set up industry-funded lobby groups to – in the words of one leaked memo – “reposition global warming as theory (not fact).”

Over the years, the skeptics have employed a wide range of arguments against taking action on climate change – some of which actually contradict each other. For example, they have claimed that:

Climate change is not occurring
The global climate is actually getting colder
The global climate is getting warmer, but not because of human activities
The global climate is getting warmer, in part because of human activities, but this will create greater benefits than costs
The global climate is getting warmer, in part because of human activities, but the impacts are not sufficient to require any policy response

After 15 years of increasingly definitive scientific studies attesting to the reality and significance of global climate change, there has been a noticeable shift in the skeptics’ tactics. Many skeptics no longer deny that climate change is happening, but instead argue that the cost of taking action is too high – or even worse, that it is too late to take action. All of these arguments are false and are rejected by the scientific community at large.

To gain an understanding of the level of scientific consensus on climate change, a recent study examined every article on climate change published in peer-reviewed scientific journals over a 10-year period. Of the 928 articles on climate change the authors found, not one of them disagreed with the consensus position that climate change is happening or is human-induced.

These findings contrast dramatically with the popular media’s reporting on climate change. One recent study analyzed coverage of climate change in four influential American newspapers (New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, and Wall Street Journal) over a 14-year period. It found that more than half of the articles discussing climate change gave equal weight to the scientifically discredited views of the skeptics.

This discrepancy is largely due to the media’s drive for balance in reporting. Journalists are trained to identify one position on any issue, and then seek out a conflicting position, providing both sides with roughly equal attention. Unfortunately, the “balance” of the different views within the media does not always correspond with the actual prevalence of each view within society, and can result in unintended bias. This has been the case with reporting on climate change, and as a result, many people believe that climate change is still being debated by scientists when in fact it is not.

While some level of debate is of course useful when looking at major social problems, eventually society needs to move on and actually address the issue. To do nothing about the problem of climate change is akin to letting a fire burn down a building because the precise temperature of the flames is unknown, or to not address the problem of smoking because one or two doctors still claim that it does not cause lung cancer. As the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) acknowledges, a lack of full scientific certainty about some aspects of climate change is not a reason for delaying an immediate response that will, at a reasonable cost, prevent dangerous consequences in the climate system.”

Learn More:
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/Science/Skeptics.asp

#121 Calberta on 06.27.08 at 5:24 pm

Message to the deathstar -come in death star!@
Alberta or BC are NOT leaving Canada – just go to a hockey game in Calgary,Vancouver or Edmonton and listen to the national anthem being sung by the 17,000 or so faithful. The few braindeads out here that are still walking around with a spur up their butt talkin’ about separnation don’t count for much. We just tell them to finish their beer call a cab and go home to sleep it off.
Have a good weekend Garth!

#122 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 5:26 pm

I hope you are not going to be stuck on Sandra Buckler for the entire long weekend, Garth.

Perhaps you can provide us with more of your fine observations on Dion’s Green Shift … after 8 glorious days of exposure to the Canadian people, who like us on this forum are clamouring for more … information … GHG targets … winners and losers … the next election … you know … the full monty …..!!!!

#123 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:27 pm

Whatever you think about his policies, you cannot deny than the country is more unified than at any time under Martin or Cretien.

By David on 06.27.08 4:42 pm

Sorry, only in your mind…the maratimes have been alienated by Harper’s broken promise on the Atlantic Accord, Quebec was bought during the election there but now it has backfired because they have seen what it was, so the gains anticipated there have evaporated. Ontario has been slighted by Dim Jim and his advise not to invest in Ontario, also cheated out of 10 seats of representation. The West is being fed a buch of BS that Dion’s plan is going to raise the price of gas and that Dion is out to screw them. Doesn’t sound like all roses and harmony to me!

#124 Irene on 06.27.08 at 5:28 pm

I don’t think he will come to any harm, we’re pretty peaceful out here. He is getting a rough ride on Gormley this morning, says he’ll create green jobs at the university for all those farmers he puts out on the street, nice guy eh. If he get’s elected we will likely seperate with Alberta and B.C. Not a lot of love out here for him today.

They’re making fun of him over calling the P.M. vulgar for saying “screw”, Dion maybe won’t say “screw”, but he is willing to do it to us.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 12:11 pm

LMAO…BC would go with Alberta?
You better check with some BC posters on here, the last time that was brought up, it got shot down. I’ll go with an analogy like David did…”you guys want it your way, or you’ll take your ball and go home”….
Have fun…

By jwp on 06.27.08 1:08 pm

Gord G, I have just come back from making a trip to Manitoba joined by 1 of my sister’s & a brother from Calgary to visit my Mom who was clinging to life fighting cancer. She died on June 19th while I was there. But that’s another story.

The point I am making is that BC & Alberta are transplants from other provinces & their heart & soul still belong there. Do you think for a minute that transplants from all the other provinces would even want to separate from the rest of Canada? I don’t for a minute believe that.

Why is it that Alberta has grown so much in the last few years? How about BC? Is it a large part because of jobs? I think so. At least it was for my own family & my 3 siblings living in Calgary, my 2 siblings living in Red Lake Ont. Btw, why is it that Fort McMurrey has a change of workers approx. every 5 years? Do you really think it’s because Fort MC is part of Alberta & that they like living there? I don’t think so.

Maybe you should ask all transplants if they want to separate from Canada & see their reactions. Many of them don’t like or trust Harper just as about as much as I do. You do realize that they vote too don’t you? If you are so gullible to think that Alberta & BC as a whole would even think of leaving Canada, I’ll sell you some ocean front property in the Okanogan.

Have a great Canada Day weekend. That’s what us as Canadians are all about. Think about that Gord.

#125 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:29 pm

Sheila’s point is entirely valid and I’ve made the same one myself; if your argument boils down to “Yankee go home” then you don’t understand the values you claim to embrace.

By Lawrence on 06.27.08 4:34 pm

Hi there Lawrence…is Gord’s valid that if Dion is elected, they will separate…isn’t it really the same thing?

#126 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:30 pm

Saying its going to be soon but doing nothing to facilitate it just makes him look like a litle cry baby.

By David on 06.27.08 4:31 pm

It isn’t up to Garth, it is up to Dion!He can only give his advice!

#127 jwp on 06.27.08 at 5:34 pm

Go here and listen to all or any part of Gormley June 27th if you want to hear the sentiment expressed in Saskatchewan today, sounds like Carbon Tax is going to be pretty divisive to me.

http://www.newstalk980.com/ondemand

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 3:21 pm

Yes Gord, I bitch all the time about Ontario getting cheated on representation but I would never advocate or support Ontario separating from Canada…people like to moan, makes them feel better…

#128 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 5:34 pm

WOW … the Liberal trools are really getting upset and vicious over any criticism of Dion’s Green Shift as they resort to virulent attacks and foul language in a futile attempt to destroy democracy on this fine forum.

This just reveals their abject desperation realizing that Dion’s scheme is so full of holes that it could easily be called: Green Swiss Cheese.

http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/scripts/large.php?Lang=1&accessnumber=M999.81.118

#129 brain on 06.27.08 at 5:34 pm

By barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 5:17 pm

And thats why deniers are now personally attacking the David Suzuki’s of the world. Can’t attack the message with nothing other than see through fallacies, attack/discredit the messanger. Its all getting so very old…

#130 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 5:40 pm

As the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) acknowledges, a lack of full scientific certainty about some aspects of climate change is not a reason for delaying an immediate response that will, at a reasonable cost, prevent dangerous consequences in the climate system.”

Learn More:
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/Science/Skeptics.asp

By barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 5:17 pm

It’s the last part that freaks me out, “at reasonable cost”, what does that mean to you Barb?

Gord.

#131 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 5:47 pm

Dion’s plan targets oil-rich provinces
Tax to hit Alberta, Saskatchewan hard

Globe and Mail – June 27, 2008

(From the G&M article)
“If we do this plan, Alberta and Saskatchewan will be better off 10 years from now than if we don’t do this plan,” Mr. Dion said. “Their economies will be more diversified, their universities will be at the centre of something big happening around the world, and investments will grow.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080627.wdion27/BNStory/National/home
…………………………………

How the hell will Alberta and Saskatchewan be better off in 10 years? I would absolutely love to hear from Dion’s mouth how that will be accomplished by taxing production of the economic backbone of both provinces. That quote from Dion shows just how painfully naive or, worse, just plain ignorant he is.

Dion looks to be having a tough time answering the hard questions about his plan. Sure, he looked great with a roomful of green-capped MPs cheering him on and no reporters to ask him questions. But consider his performance before the Toronto Sun’s editorial board, who seemed to ask the questions most Canadians will be asking.

On the questions of why, if the Carbon Tax is supposed to be this holy grail of climate change action, there are no specific emissions reductions targets, Dion comes out with this spectacularly stupid response:

“I’m confident we will have significant reductions. I’m not telling you specific numbers because you would not trust me,” he said.

We wouldn’t trust him!!! He admits it!!! He plainly concedes that if he was actually honest about what the goals of the plan are, Canadians wouldn’t believe him.

Are we supposed to just trust him on this one? No facts, no figures, no details, no real plan of action, just trust him?

Sorry, Stephane. I suspect Canadians are going to want to see how this massive tax grab is going to address the problem of climate change, and Dion has already admitted we wouldn’t believe him if he told us.

Garth ..???!!!

#132 C. B. Innes on 06.27.08 at 5:50 pm

Whatever you think about his policies, you cannot deny than the country is more unified than at any time under Martin or Cretien.

By David on 06.27.08 4:42 pm

I disagree.

#133 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 5:57 pm

“explain how earth’s cooling/warming cycles can be stopped”

By GORD G. 062708 10:27AM Re: A Time for caution
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·

Gord,

Why would you overlook that all scientists who work on this, around the world, have found warming to be at an alarming rate, many multiples of what has historically happened. They know this is different. Normal ice age and adaption to warming conditions had much more time. This ain’t normal.

It’s the drastic speed that is the problem. The animals and plants can’t adapt that fast. Your common sense should tell you that. None of the experts are denying this is a big problem.

The tobacco lobbyists did the same thing years ago. Many people would have lived, had the lobbyist not lied. Such is the case today with fast-tracked climate change.

Now we’ve lost 20 years since Hansen [NASA} first warned us — his work was purposely buried by corporate interests, so they could squeeze this many more years of oil use out of us, out of you and your family, and keep us from building a smoother transition. Now we’re strapped for time, and you’re still stuck in a grade six geography book. Speed kills, as they say, and if we don’t at least try to slow it down to a more natural rate, then we are just being counter-intuitive. Not to mention it will be a lousy world for generations who will suffer.

And, who knows, the quick collapse of a stable atmosphere could be catastrophic if the earth’s balances can’t accommodate the speed and sheer enormity of the changes. Maybe one day, pffffft, the atmosphere shears off. Why risk it, when all we have to do is quit feeding greedy big oil? It’s a no brainer. We have to do it anyway, why not prepare everyone to start?

#134 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 6:30 pm

And, who knows, the quick collapse of a stable atmosphere could be catastrophic if the earth’s balances can’t accommodate the speed and sheer enormity of the changes. Maybe one day, pffffft, the atmosphere shears off. Why risk it, when all we have to do is quit feeding greedy big oil? It’s a no brainer. We have to do it anyway, why not prepare everyone to start?

By barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 5:57 pm

Can you explain the “atmosphere just shears off” bit. Haven’t heard that one before? I think I’m willing to risk it, To me, the atmophere shearing off is a long shot.

Gord.

#135 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 6:34 pm

Yes Gord, I bitch all the time about Ontario getting cheated on representation but I would never advocate or support Ontario separating from Canada…people like to moan, makes them feel better…

By jwp on 06.27.08 5:34 pm

Two different things JWP, representation is something people may bitch about, but putting food on the table and feeding one’s family, that’s where people will draw the line.

Gord.

#136 keith phibbs on 06.27.08 at 6:39 pm

Now there’s the left wing media propaganda machine in full force. Not one article that day critiquing the plan.

Where are all those neocon articles that you speak of?

By Janice on 06.27.08 12:40 pm

Are you for real? You must be a paid employee of the conservative party because your arguments and posts are even starting to surpass Harry S in
the category of ridiculous.

#137 Catherine on 06.27.08 at 6:42 pm

He did the editorial board of the Globe yesterday and Regina radio today. BTW, where is Mr. Harper? — Garth

By Mary on 06.27.08 2:34 pm

In a bunker .

By Men With Hats on 06.27.08 3:35 pm

Yup – he just received “B’nai Brith International President’s Gold Medallion”

“Previous recipients of the Gold Medallion include United States’ Presidents Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy, as well as British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Israeli Prime Ministers David Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir.

In presenting Prime Minister Harper with the award, B’nai Brith International President Moishe Smith, a resident of Ottawa who is the first non-American president of the organization, cited a number of actions the Prime Minister and the Government have taken to advance human rights and oppose discrimination, including:

Unequivocally supporting Canada’s role in the UN-sanctioned mission in Afghanistan;

Refusing to sign a resolution denouncing Israel’s right to self-defence at the 2006 Francophonie Summit;

Suspending relations with the then Hamas-led government in Palestine, for its refusal to renounce terrorism; and

Delivering a heartfelt apology acknowledging the overtly discriminatory Indian Residential Schools program.

“Prime Minister, whether in opposition or in government, you have always portrayed a leadership style that speaks of principle and honesty,” said Mr. Smith. “Our decision to award you the Gold Medallion reflects the esteem the world Jewish community holds for you.””

Now you libber lemmings – let’s hear your “scary” routine.

#138 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 6:45 pm

Garth .. your conspicuous silence on Dion’s Green Shift is disconcerting.

Don’t you have anything to say in defence of your leader and his sole election issue??

Or are you deferring to a Dion-Harper debate on the dubious Green Shift??

#139 jwp on 06.27.08 at 7:21 pm

Two different things JWP, representation is something people may bitch about, but putting food on the table and feeding one’s family, that’s where people will draw the line.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 6:34 pm

I would suggest the high price of oil and the eefects of that are far more damaging than any Green shift will be especially since Harper is doing nothing for the people while at least Dion is going to attempt to give some back in tax rebates….

#140 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 7:22 pm

Now you libber lemmings – let’s hear your “scary” routine.

By Catherine on 06.27.08 6:42 pm

Does the medal make the air easier to breathe or the water cleaner .
Big deal .

#141 jwp on 06.27.08 at 7:23 pm

By Irene on 06.27.08 5:28 pm

Sorry to hear about your mom, Irene.

#142 jwp on 06.27.08 at 7:28 pm

Or are you deferring to a Dion-Harper debate on the dubious Green Shift??

By Harry S on 06.27.08 6:45 pm

Nobody is answering your nonsense Harry…too bad!!!

#143 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 7:31 pm

Now you libber lemmings – let’s hear your “scary” routine.

By Catherine on 06.27.08 6:42 pm
…………………………………

What is “scary” is that the mishugenas in Mont-Royal riding would elect binLaden or Bernardo if he ran as a Liberal. Talk about self-loating …!!!

#144 Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 at 7:37 pm

Two CP reports — one heading reads “Mass exodus of vehicles predicted for America’s highways” (and ours), the second “Cdn. housing market cools down”.

Both are self-explanatory, but one basic fact most have yet to understand: The price of oil is relatively stable — it’s the US greenback which is rushing down a steep hill, with no brakes to stop it.

Possibly designed by the unknowns to take this entire continent down? We will soon see, and know the effects.

A local column today spells out repercussions of layoffs from good, well-paid jobs and the after effects when those folk are unwilling (and unable) to spend as freely as they used to, from Air Canada (2,000 or so jobs gone), lost auto jobs, forest industry out west.

Oil now runs at approx. 40% of an airline’s total operating costs, which means only 60% left to cover everything else, plus profit margin.

A couple of separate links.
****************************************
This will put the cat among the pigeons. With the link I posted last night re: the Northern ice being gone later this year, now a different report pops up.

Comment by whatreallyhappened.com.

“So, it isn’t your SUV that melted the polar ice cap. And by the way, even though the ice cap is supposed to be all but gone, New York City hasn’t been flooded.”

http://tinyurl.com/59ewyv
****************************************
Interesting report on “The Greater Depression” by D. Casey.

Casey seems to like gold, but that’s not my bag. Last part is good advice.

http://tinyurl.com/4vscxh

#145 William Laidlaw on 06.27.08 at 7:39 pm

Sheila:
Still waiting for your precis of the rationale used for the creation of the Canadian Wheat Board.
Gord G:
Still waiting for your analysis of the effect of paved parking lots on temperature measurements.
Harry S.
Still waiting for your recommendations for the functions and staffing levels of the federal civil service.

Come on folks, the house is in recess for the summer, you’ve got plenty of time to get your homework done.

#146 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 7:42 pm

Ceux-qui rient le vendredi, pleureront le dimanche .

#147 Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 at 7:43 pm

hopeless horny hairy, 6:45 pm

horny! Much to my chagrin, I see you’re still alive and kicking. Oh dear. What a pity. Not too worry. Never mind.

Lucifer’s waiting to have you for supper, so I’ll let her know you’ll be right there by Express Post!

#148 sheila on 06.27.08 at 7:49 pm

“I am not against Medicare – do we need to pay the medical costs for millionaires?” –BY SHEILA ON 06.27.08 12:53 PM

“I am SO glad you asked that. So I’ll ask you something first. Why is it that my next door neighbour, who is a millionaire, receives Harper’s $1,200 personal election bribery scheme?” –Barb the Proofreader.

How does that challenge my point. It only reaffirms it. Your millionarire neighbour SHOULD not be receiving the $1,200.00 a year for child care.

I am making absolutely no case for that universal program. In the light of my clearly stated position, why would you suppose that I would justify a program that is more socialistic than encouraging families to be, wherever possible, the primary caregivers for their own. Certainly, millionaires should care for their own without being subsidized by taxpayers dollars.

Thank you for affirming my point.

The problem with these socialistic programs is that they keep people perennially in a state of dependence on government, rather than encourage them to grow from dependence to interdependence.

It would be like a parent who forever takes responsibility to pay the bills for his or her child, never teaching the child to grow up, and to, at some point, start to develop a little creativity in taking responsibility for himself or herself.

#149 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 8:00 pm

If the moron Harpo was such a big deal,as you claim,then let him get Su Ki out from under house arrest in Mynamar(Burma)
and have all the general dictators hung at dawn .
Until then I am unimpressed .

#150 Judy on 06.27.08 at 8:02 pm

Catherine: What’s scary is that Harper has joined Blair and Bush in their “Israel” at all costs agenda.
As Evangelicals it is their responsibility to ensure that when Jesus returns (and they do believehe will) , he won’t be returning to Ottawa, or Texas, or London but to the land of Israel.
And everything better be ready for the return—at any cost. How’s that for scary!!

#151 Judy on 06.27.08 at 8:08 pm

Gord: What makes you think people will not be putting food on their tables??/
Have you been listening to the doomsday Conservative bloggers?
Perhaps people will decide to give up the tri-weekly trip to the hockey arena and go and skate on an outdoor rink with their kids.
Ever drive by an arena at peak hockey time? There are probably 50 vehicles in the lot idling with one guy or gal insisde having a smoke while the little gaffer is inside getting his 6 minutes of ice time.
Or maybe when the kids get home from school they won’t be packed into a mini van and driven to “lessons” or “classes”. Just maybe they will buy the little gaffer a bike and just maybe they will all go biking together.
But unfortunately if sensible families do these things they will miss out on the $500. yearly “fitness” credit that Harper believes is contributing to the little gaffers well-being.
So, I really don’t believe people will not be putting food on the table. More likely most of their food is currently purchased at drive throughs on the way to the above mentioned activities.

#152 sheila on 06.27.08 at 8:09 pm

“The point is that we will only have better governments when we have more self-government, more self-conrol, and more self-discipline in our society. The more self-government that we have, the less do we need government control and external regulations to control our lives.” – Shiela

“Here we go again! Lets everyone just do whatever we want! Whoopie, let the good times roll! Shiela’s saying we don’t need regulations, for profit individuals and corporations and self interest groups don’t need standards or regs, we’re all beyond that now!” –Brain,

Brain, see how quickly you contradict yourself? I had just said that the more we have self-government, the less we need of external control.

I never said, “Lets everyone just do whatever we want! Whoopie, let the good times roll! Shiela’s saying we don’t need regulations…”

All the way through, you are attacking a strawman without even listening to what I am saying because your mind refuses to think outside of your box.

To say we need to be self-controlled and regulated is certainly not saying that we need no regulation, and to say that the more self-control we have, the less we need external regulation, is also to say that where there is no self-government or self-control and self-discipline, there is certainly need for more external regulation.

We need external controls in am imperfect society, just like we need prisons, but neither prisons nor external controls are ever the answer in rehabilitating anybody, or motivating them to change.

A society that is perennially dependent on external regulations and controls is not a mature society, and is still at the infantile level, always needing parents to set the boundaries without ever learning to grow up and to make their own responsible decisions in an interdependent world instead of perennially being dependent on the state.

The amount of dissatisfaction on this forum is positive proof that the state makes a poor master, and I doubt you ever will find a government that can produce a mature society with a top-down approach.

I am simply recognizing the way that the real world ticks. The state needs to be more of a servant than a master if it is to facilitate human potential.

#153 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 8:14 pm

Gord G:
Still waiting for your analysis of the effect of paved parking lots on temperature measurements.

By William Laidlaw on 06.27.08 7:39 pm

Sorry William, I must of have missed the question. My analysis is quite simple really, the temperature would read hotter when placed on a parking lot than they would if placed on a green space. Would you agree with that?

Gord.

#154 A.R.Wainwright on 06.27.08 at 8:16 pm

It’s the last part that freaks me out, “at reasonable cost”, what does that mean to you Barb?

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 5:40 pm

A better question would I believe be:

What is the survival of your children and grand children worth? Is there ANY price too high????????

#155 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 8:17 pm

Lucifer’s waiting to have you for supper, so I’ll let her know you’ll be right there by Express Post!

By Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 7:43 pm

And then I laughed . ROTFLMAO
By the way Hairy what the hell is a loat?

#156 sheila on 06.27.08 at 8:26 pm

“In order to achieve what you seem to be suggesting would require the abolition of the party system in Canada.” –By jwp on 06.27.08 1:33 pm

Agreed!

I prefer a consensus type of government such as the Aboriginals have demonstrated for centuries, and interestingly enough, they were the only ones who finally brought peace into our own House of Commons last June 11. May be we could learn something from them and their style of government.

I also agree with you that if the Albertans threaten to separate if they don’t get their way with the Dion plan that they are just as immature as people like Brain who tells people like myself to move to the United States if I want to hold a particular point of view. That type of thinking is smore fascist than democratic.

I received all of my training in Canada, have graduated from a reputable Canadian University, and yet this person loosely throws out taunts of “hypocrisy” and suggests that I got my thinking from the United States, so basically suggest I should go back to a country that I never came from.

I am a product of Canada, and have never lived anywhere else than in the “true North strong and free.”

What is sad is when people take their point of view and ascribe it to the “Canadian” way as if to think “Canadian” is to endorse only one point of view–theirs.

When I talk about the “Canadian” way, I talk about freedom of speech, and the allownace of diversity and multi-culturalism and creativity.

Apparently my culture has no place in Brain’s Canada. A pity, really.

As I said, it’s time to grow up, and to shaft the party system with its perennial bickering and blame-casting, and start to build constructively on a consensus for the common good.

Canadians are sick and tired of our present political system.

#157 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 8:28 pm

“And by the way, even though the ice cap is supposed to be all but gone, New York City hasn’t been flooded.”

By Charles Oxley on 06.27.08 7:37 pm

Flooding isn’t the problem anymore Charles, apparently the atmosphere is going to shear off, which is much scarier.

Gord.

#158 sheila on 06.27.08 at 8:34 pm

There has always been a vocal group of Prairie farmers who have called for a complete end to the Canadian Wheat Board’s monopoly powers over marketing; powers that are now restricted to wheat sold to foreign buyers.

The federal government and the wheat board have steadily deregulated the market, including grain transportation and restrictions on when and how much grain can be delivered to elevators for export. They’ve even opened up 10 of the 15 directorships on the wheat board to elections. But for some producers it’s not enough.

Plain and simple, farmers in the east have the freedom to market their own wheat. Western producers don’t. 12 growers found out the hard way that if you break this federal law you go straight to jail.

#159 sheila on 06.27.08 at 8:40 pm

We live in a democracy and the freedom to operate a business by choosing where and who to sell products to is something that most business people in this country take for granted. However, for the last seven decades, that has been a freedom that Western Canadian grain farmers have been denied.

There are strong factions opposed to providing farmers with marketing choices and these people are coming up with all kinds of untruths and myths about it.

Myth 1: The CWB will cease to exist under Marketing Choice.

Reality: This is the farthest thing from the truth. I see a bright future for a strong, viable and voluntary Wheat Board, so loyal customers will be able to continue buying their grain through it. At the same time, Western Canadian wheat and barley producers will have the freedom to sell their products to other buyers, which may well increase overall sales and returns.

Myth 2: Marketing Choice will lead to the dismantling of supply management.

Reality: Supply management and marketing choice are not linked. They are two different issues entirely. Unlike supply management, the CWB’s monopoly is far from being universally accepted. For years, Western Canadian wheat and barley producers have been telling us they want to be able to make their own business decisions and that includes alternatives to the CWB. This is not the case with supply management as the overwhelming majority of producers are extremely satisfied with the way the system works.

Myth 3: Marketing Choice effectively means a market free-for-all.

Reality: Marketing Choice means that wheat and barley farmers will be able to sell wheat and barley to any domestic or foreign buyer of their choice, including a voluntary CWB. In a Marketing Choice environment, the CWB is expected to be a vigorous participant through which producers could voluntarily choose to market their grain.

Myth 4: CWB’s international customers may not have access to all the grain they need and service will suffer.

Reality: This is an example of pure scare tactics. I am confident that the CWB and the private sector grain companies will be well prepared for the new marketing environment when it is implemented. Markets will not be disrupted in any way. Canadian farmers are as ready and able as always to deliver an ongoing supply of good-quality grain, on time and on specification.

Myth 5: Grain farmers won’t have access to cash advances if barley is removed from the CWB’s single desk.

Reality: The Advance Payments Program will continue to be available to barley producers regardless of the outcome of the vote. The program provides a wide range of producers with a cash advance on the value of their agricultural products during a specified period. It is available to a wide range of farmers not just those who produce barley.

Myth 6: Removing the monopoly on barley will destroy Canada’s grain industry

Reality: This is another example of a “scare tactic” being propagated. This is also untrue. The fact of the matter is that the strength of Canada’s grain industry is a result of the hard work of its producers and businesses. The CWB is a part and not the sum of the industry.

#160 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 9:13 pm

It’s the last part that freaks me out, “at reasonable cost”, what does that mean to you Barb?

Gord.

BY GORD G. ON 06.27.08 5:40 PM

Gord,

That’s a very thoughtful question, and Hubby and I were just discussing that very thing in the sunshine out back. We live in a great spot in Calgary. We knew a couple of years ago this was coming. We were informed, but weren’t sure of how many years. Doesn’t matter. As Garth says, probably 80% maybe more of what we have is our house, it’s our retirement. And guess what? It’s going to lose incredible value. That will be my life. But still I fight the good cause. It’s the right thing to do.

#161 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 9:21 pm

I would suggest the high price of oil and the eefects of that are far more damaging than any Green shift will be especially since Harper is doing nothing for the people while at least Dion is going to attempt to give some back in tax rebates….

By jwp on 06.27.08 7:21 pm

Your logic escapes me,

BTW, aren’t you for an independent government, why the Dion boosting then?

Gord.

#162 barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 at 9:22 pm

Can you explain the “atmosphere just

BY GORD G. ON 06.27.08 6:30 PM

Gord,

I was hoping anybody reading that would see the part, “And who knows”. Because not doing anything is a huge risk.

What you have to understand Gord, is the the lobbyist have been working hard to hire people to deny this all. It’s worked. Now we have to reverse the lies. That’s a tough job. You either get reading and judge properly and start wondering too, or believe these guys like Harper. That, to me, is an enormous and bad risk, since he’s a proven lobbyist and liar. Again, it’s just common sense. We know the lobbyists are in it for money. As for the shearing off.. planets that don’t have our conditions, have little atmosphere. It’s not a big leap to realize under differing and changing conditions, we may not be able to hold on to our live-able conditions, like air. Calculated risk, this not doing anything, eh?

#163 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 9:28 pm

A better question would I believe be:

What is the survival of your children and grand children worth? Is there ANY price too high????????

By A.R.Wainwright on 06.27.08 8:16 pm

I would give my life for my children,

I believe a better question would be; Will it do any good? Or try this one, Why does the earth orbit the sun? How did all that get started anyway, I mean the earth does orbit the sun right, who made that happen?

Gord.

#164 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 9:28 pm

“Like a man trying to put up a pup-tent in a windstorm ” Gord keeps swinging at and missing the entire point .

#165 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 9:42 pm

“Like a man trying to put up a pup-tent in a windstorm ” Gord keeps swinging at and missing the entire point .

By Men With Hats on 06.27.08 9:28 pm

Ok, I’ll bite, what is the entire point?

Gord.

#166 Geiseric the Lame on 06.27.08 at 9:48 pm

By sheila on 06.27.08 8:40 pm

Myth #7

Farmers have no right to expect the general public to continue to underwrite their the CWB contracts with Part III guarantees in a dual choice business model.

Fact: its not a myth.

#167 Lawrence on 06.27.08 at 10:01 pm

By jwp on 06.27.08 5:29 pm

“Hi there Lawrence…is Gord’s valid that if Dion is elected, they will separate…isn’t it really the same thing?”

I don’t have a lot of regard for separatists of any type, but there is a big difference between an individual who expresses his own alienation and being denounced as an alien by some self-proclaimed judge of who “belongs”.
It’s the difference between leaving home for your own reasons and being thrown out as an “undesirable”.

#168 Zorpheous on 06.27.08 at 10:08 pm

Wow, Hrry has seriously screwed up his meds, or mybe he’s miming them booze.

Christ what a complete loonie.

#169 Judy on 06.27.08 at 10:20 pm

Gord: You ask “who made that happen”. I ask “what made that happen”– different perspectives.

#170 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 10:21 pm

Ok, I’ll bite, what is the entire point?

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 9:42 pm

* climate change is real;
* it is caused by human activity; and
* it is threatening the planet in ways we can only begin to imagine.
Mans days are numbered on planet earth .

#171 Judy on 06.27.08 at 10:25 pm

Obviously we still are not being charged enough for gas. Sat out on our side yard–watched bumper to bumper cars, trailers, big suv’s and trucks hauling motor homes, boats, ATV’s, sea-doos plus a couple kids and dogs.
The line was endless–we are about half way between Guelph/Kitchener and cottage country–the Bruce, Georgian Bay, etc.
We have not noticed any decline in weekend traffic heading north–
Are they foregoing food on the table or a mortgage payment?
Obviously the price of fuel is not deterring the mass migration.

#172 Harry S on 06.27.08 at 10:28 pm

Garth … in his Green Shift, Dion states:

“Canadians know Canada won’t meet its obligations under the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol. However, the Kyoto Protocol is an ongoing international effort, and we must build momentum now in order to close that gap in the next phase of the agreement, after 2012.
…………………

All this states is that Dion is going to join the rest of Canadians and accept the fact that Canada cannot possibly eliminate our current 30% GHG excess over our 2012 Kyoto target … but is it ??

This does not preclude the possibility that a Dion Liberal government will meet the 2012 Kyoto targets in accordance with treaty obligations. This can be accomplished with the purchase of Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits to mitigate our 2012 Kyoto GHG excess. Unless the Canadian government repudiates Canada’s Kyoto GHG 2012 target, a Dion government will be free to buy the necessary carbon credits from countries such as China to cover any remaining GHG levels.

This takes me to the Rodriguez Liberal Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act – C-288 which was passed through Parliament as a private member’s bill. Here is the section I want to direct you to:

The Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act

On June 22nd, 2007 the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act received Royal Assent.

Section 5 of the Act provides that “Within 60 days after this Act comes into force and not later than May 31 of every year thereafter until 2013, the Minister [of the Environment] shall prepare a Climate Change Plan that includes:

c. the projected greenhouse gas emission levels in Canada for each year from 2008 to 2012, taking into account the measures referred to in paragraph (a), and a comparison of those levels with Canada’s obligations under Article 3, paragraph 1, of the Kyoto Protocol;

… taken from: http://www.ec.gc.ca/doc/ed-es/p_123/pre_eng.htm
…………………………………………………………….

Since there is no defined ‘”greenhouse gas emission level” defined in the Green Shift, will a Dion Liberal government honour this Act by preparing a “Climate Change Plan”? Dion unable to to set GHG reduction targets in the Green Shift, but will do it under the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act? If he can do it then, why can’t they do it now in his Green Shift which contains a carbon tax and defined carbon cost increases over 4 years??

If you are unable to respond to these valid questions now, could you apprise yourself and respond at a later time?

#173 sheila on 06.27.08 at 10:30 pm

I am not saying that David Suzuki and Al Gore are wrong in everything, but you guys who just believe their every word about the receding polar ice need to keep an open mind.

The Inuit know something about the cycles of nature over the long-term.

I just talked to a friend today up in Pangnirtung, Nunavut, and she told me that the amount of ice in the Cumberland Sound region (in the south-eastern part of Baffin Island) is so heavy this year that those who go out to hunt the plentiful whales which are on the increase will not be able to get out on to the sea until at least the third or fourth week of July this year because of the heavy ice, when usually they can get out on to the sea by now.

Even the CBC, in a news report from this past February 15, 2008, has had to admit that due to the extremely cold winter we have just had, that there has been an increase in polar ice over this past year. The headline states, “Recent cold snap helping Arctic sea ice, scientists find”

Read the report at:
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/15/arctic-ice.html

There’s an upside to the extreme cold temperatures northern Canadians have endured in the last few weeks: scientists say it’s been helping winter sea ice grow across the Arctic, where the ice shrank to record-low levels last year.

Temperatures have stayed well in the -30s C and -40s C range since late January throughout the North, with the mercury dipping past -50 C in some areas.

Satellite images are showing that the cold spell is helping the sea ice expand in coverage by about 2 million square kilometres, compared to the average winter coverage in the previous three years.

“It’s nice to know that the ice is recovering,” Josefino Comiso, a senior research scientist with the Cryospheric Sciences Branch of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Centre in Maryland, told CBC News on Thursday.

“That means that maybe the perennial ice would not go down as low as last year.”

Canadian scientists are also noticing growing ice coverage in most areas of the Arctic, including the southern Davis Strait and the Beaufort Sea.

“Clearly, we’re seeing the ice coverage rebound back to more near normal coverage for this time of year,” said Gilles Langis, a senior ice forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa.

Winter sea ice could keep expanding
The cold is also making the ice thicker in some areas, compared to recorded thicknesses last year, Lagnis added.

“The ice is about 10 to 20 centimetres thicker than last year, so that’s a significant increase,” he said.

If temperatures remain cold this winter, Langis said winter sea ice coverage will continue to expand.

This only goes to show that issue has more to do with who you trust than it has to do with hard science.

What I do know is that fearmongers are almost always proved wrong, just like they were with the Y2K crisis.

In the meantime, the myth makes for a wonderful rationale for policies that give our governments every greater control over how we spend our money.

Just give us the facts, and people have the intelligence to make wise decisions without being treated like little children by centralized governments who sometimes make decisions before they have all of the facts themselves.

#174 sheila on 06.27.08 at 10:38 pm

Also, see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1973250/posts

This report is dated February 20, 2008.

The ice between Canada and southwestern Greenland has reached its highest level in 15 years.

Minus 30 degrees Celsius. That’s how cold it’s been in large parts of western Greenland where the population has been bundling up in hats and scarves. At the same time, Denmark’s Meteorological Institute states that the ice between Canada and southwest Greenland right now has reached its greatest extent in 15 years.

‘Satellite pictures show that the ice expansion has extended farther south this year. In fact, it’s a bit past the Nuuk area. We have to go back 15 years to find ice expansion so far south.

And Gore is deeply saddened.

#175 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 10:42 pm

One of the best examples – the most compelling proofs that the disinformation generation is no accident – came in a November 2002 memo from political consultant Frank Luntz to the U.S. Republican Party. Luntz followed the rules: he did the research; he identified the soft spots in public opinion; and he made a clever critical judgment about which way the public could be induced to move.

In a section entitled “Winning the Global Warming Debate,” Luntz says this:
“The Scientific Debate Remains Open. Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate, and defer to scientists and other experts in the field.”

Memo exposes Bush’s new green strategy

The US Republican party is changing tactics on the environment, avoiding “frightening” phrases such as global warming, after a confidential party memo warned that it is the domestic issue on which George Bush is most vulnerable.

The memo, by the leading Republican consultant Frank Luntz, concedes the party has “lost the environmental communications battle” and urges its politicians to encourage the public in the view that there is no scientific consensus on the dangers of greenhouse gases.

“The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science,” Mr Luntz writes in the memo, obtained by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington-based campaigning organisation.

“Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly.

“Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.”

Memo exposes Bush’s new green strategy

The US Republican party is changing tactics on the environment, avoiding “frightening” phrases such as global warming, after a confidential party memo warned that it is the domestic issue on which George Bush is most vulnerable.

The memo, by the leading Republican consultant Frank Luntz, concedes the party has “lost the environmental communications battle” and urges its politicians to encourage the public in the view that there is no scientific consensus on the dangers of greenhouse gases.

“The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science,” Mr Luntz writes in the memo, obtained by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington-based campaigning organisation.

“Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly.

“Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate.”

The phrase “global warming” should be abandoned in favour of “climate change”, Mr Luntz says, and the party should describe its policies as “conservationist” instead of “environmentalist”, because “most people” think environmentalists are “extremists” and ” whackos” who indulge in “some pretty bizarre behaviour… that turns off many voters”.

Words such as “common sense” should be used, with pro-business arguments avoided wherever possible.
the environment, the memo says, “is probably the single issue on which Republicans in general – and President Bush in particular – are most vulnerable”.

A Republican source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said party strategists agreed with Mr Luntz’s conclusion that “many Americans believe Republicans do not care about the environment”.

The popular image is that they are “in the pockets of corporate fat cats who rub their hands together and chuckle maniacally as they plot to pollute America for fun and profit”, Mr Luntz adds.

The phrase “global warming” appeared frequently in President Bush’s speeches in 2001, but decreased to almost nothing during 2002, when the memo was produced.
Last week, a panel of experts appointed at the Bush administration’s request to analyse the president’s climate change strategy found that it lacked “vision, executable goals, clear timetables and criteria for measuring progress”.Sound familiar ?

Billions of people could be wiped out over the next century because of climate change, a leading expert said.

Professor James Lovelock, who pioneered the idea of the Earth as a living organism, said as the planet heats up humans will find it increasingly hard to survive.
He warned that as conditions worsen, the global population which is currently around 6.5 billion, may sink as low as 500 million.

Prof Lovelock also claims that any attempts to tackle climate change will not be able to solve the problem, merely buy us time.

Given the dire situation we face, he urged people to drop the phrase “global warming,” which has cozy connotations, and instead start to think of it as “global heating.”

Prof Lovelock, is an independent scientist who first proposed the Gaia Theory, which argues that the Earth, like a body, is a complex and intricately balanced system which all works together to allow life to continue as we know it.

However he fears that as carbon dioxide emissions from man and the planet itself soar, the Earth will heat up causing water shortages, destroying life in much of the planet’s oceans and making it impossible for plants to grow.
“There is very good evidence of what happened 55 million years ago when as much carbon dioxide was put into the atmosphere by geology as is being done by us now.

“Temperatures zoomed up by 8 degrees and stayed there for 200,000 years then came back to normal.”

He fears something similar may happen again, and warned: “if it does it is going to make this an exceedingly difficult century.”

However Prof Lovelock said mankind has managed to survive previous climatic disasters of the past.

“There have been at least seven of these major climate changes before and we have to adapt,” he said.
“The survivors will be those humans that can make their way to refuges or Arctic places and survive there.

“I think an awful lot of people will die but I don’t see the human species dying out.

“I would think a hot earth could not support much over 500 million.”

He warned there are no simple solutions to global heating and there is nothing we can do now to “save the earth.”

“People will try to do things but the way to really look at them is they are a bit like when your kidneys fail you can on dialysis – and who would refuse dialysis if death is the alternative?” he said.

“But we have to remember that all they are doing is buying us time. The problems will go on.

Part 2 of 3

#176 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 11:01 pm

Mans days are numbered on planet earth .

By Men With Hats on 06.27.08 10:21 pm

Pretty gloomy,

Gord.

Gord.

#177 Dube on 06.27.08 at 11:09 pm

The whining that one encounters here and throughout the blogosphere about undue media bias against the Conservative party is quite amusing, because more accurately, the media bias tends predominantly to be against the governing party. After all, they are the ones who set the agenda. And it just so happens that the Conservatives are sitting in that chair. Contrary to their leader’s assertion that “I can take a punch”, the reality seems to be anything but.

You form government, expect critique: it goes with the territory.

Back on the Green Shift thread, there was reference to a Greg Weston – Sun Media article that criticized Dion; the posted comments were more often than not accompanied by remarks that Weston is usually so critical of Harper, and thus by extension that must render more credence to his commentary (in that instance alone, it seems; otherwise he’s wrong, wrong, wrong). Indeed Weston has been critical of Harper, since the Conservatives became the governing party. I recall one of Weston’s earlier articles, written not long after the change to the current government, in which he discussed all of the E-mails and letters he was getting all of a sudden expressing dismay that he had changed his tune so drastically. It seems that previously, he was a Conservative champion because he had been so very critical of the governing Liberals. I guess the expectation was that that stance was one cast in stone, in effect that of a bona fide Conservative patsy. The readers didn’t realize, as he explained in that piece, his job was to castigate government, any government.

While on the topic of shills, real ones, Maclean’s had a good 4 page exposé on just such a character, one Rachel Marsden. A real piece of work, that one is. Glad she’s not the voice of the non-right:

Agent provocateur

Rachel Marsden veered into national consciousness in the late 1990s as the Simon Fraser University student who cried date rape, accusing school swim team coach Liam Donnelly of sexual harassment during what she said was a 16-month romantic relationship. The two had met at a local swim club in 1990 when Marsden was a teenaged competitive swimmer. She later tried out for the SFU swim team, but quit after a few weeks. Donnelly denied the charges and ever having had an intimate relationship with Marsden. In 1997, an internal SFU investigation found him guilty of “severe sexual harassment” and he was fired. He fought back, alleging Marsden had in fact harassed him since 1992. Months later, he was reinstated and exonerated of all charges after making public suggestive emails and sexually explicit photographs sent by Marsden.

Marsden remained at the school, where she was dogged by other harassment complaints, none proven, one from criminology professor Neil Boyd, who says he went to the police. In the most bizarre twist, SFU harassment policy coordinator Patricia O’Hagan, who had befriended Marsden, accused the student of harassing her — including calling her more than 400 times. No charges were laid, though the university warned Marsden to stay away from Donnelly and Boyd.

The lurid B-movie details of Marsden’s alleged harassment of Donnelly — condoms scattered around his yard, repeated messages made using a voice-altering machine — are said to have inspired the 2002 teen flick Swimfan.

In 2002, Marsden was charged with the offence after her breakup with 52-year-old Vancouver radio host Michael Morgan, who ended their year-long on-again, off-again relationship. By then Marsden was styling herself in the mould of incendiary pundit Ann Coulter.

The evidence against Marsden included repeated phone calls and emails to Morgan along with threats to humiliate him by releasing photographs and personal papers. The police also discovered she had surreptitiously set Morgan’s email to blind copy her all of his correspondence without his knowledge.

In 2003, B.C. Conservative MP Gurmant Grewal defied the objections of party officials to hire her on contract in his constituency office. “She is talented and has a lot to offer,” he told the Vancouver Sun. [ like expertise in tape manipulation? ]

Fox News took notice and she became a regular “Canadian” commentator on Bill O’Reilly’s O’Reilly Report, though she didn’t hide her disdain for what she regarded as the mushy politics of her native land. “From gays to pot-smokers, Canada is turning into a tyranny of minorities and special interest groups,” she wrote on her blog. “My homeland is starting to look about as appealingly progressive as the cesspool of Soddom [sic] and Gomorrah.”

She held her own within that soporific crowd. “Hillary Clinton fills out a cup better than Peyton Manning,” she cracked. Another time she questioned the hygiene of Pakistani cricket players. Her rising star at Fox caught the attention of Salon.com, which ran a profile detailing her past. The story ran shortly after a Red Eye discussion of the Duke University rape case in which Marsden dismissed the idea that, if the charges were dropped, the female accuser should face ramifications. “Charges are laid, charges are dropped. It happens all the time,” she said. “Unless she can get charged with mischief and they can prove she lied, then no. That’s the process and the process works.” When host Greg Gutfeld asked her: “Don’t you think that being accused of rape is as bad as being raped? Those guys’ lives were ruined!” Marsden shot back: “Let’s give it 10 years and see if their lives were ruined.”

In September 2007 she was back in the headlines after announcing another rancorous romantic split, this one involving potential threats to Canada’s national security. Under the headline “Rachel’s Jerk of the Day,” she posted a photograph of Ontario Provincial Police Const. Tony Backhurst, an undercover member of the provincial anti-terrorism section.
…
An internal investigation cleared Backhurst of wrongdoing, says McKay, who wonders if the emails had been doctored. “She has a history of tampering with technology,” he says. McKay says Backhurst tried to lodge a criminal harassment complaint against her with police, though no charges were laid. The fallout was devastating for his client, who is back at work, McKay says. “It compromised his job security, it compromised his physical security and it compromised his relationship with his family,” he says.

In November, the Toronto Sun dropped her column, a move a senior editor chalked up to “a desire for fresh voices.” On her blog, Marsden blamed the paper’s new editor-in-chief Lou Clancy for caving to backlash in the blogosphere to a column she wrote minimizing the effects of “water-boarding,” the practice of torturing by drowning: “I suppose that those who object to terror suspects getting water up the nose would say that, as a young competitive swimmer, I was also tortured,” she wrote. Marsden torqued the controversy into a publicity op, selling T-shirts brandished: “CIA Center For Aquatic Excellence Waterboarding Team.” She again referenced swim team imagery in an appearance as a panellist on CNN’s The Situation Room alongside Carl Bernstein, where she was billed as a “Republican Strategist,” though her experience working GOP backrooms is vague. “One man’s torture is another man’s CIA-sponsored swim lesson,” she cracked.

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/media/article.jsp?content=20080625_40707_40707

#178 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 11:10 pm

Gord: You ask “who made that happen”. I ask “what made that happen”– different perspectives.

By Judy on 06.27.08 10:20 pm

Not really Judy, I can go along with What made it happen?, So what did make the earth orbit the sun? It wasn’t me.

Gord.

#179 Brian Wilson on 06.27.08 at 11:11 pm

All I can say is Sandra Buckler was one of the best spokespeople for the cons during the last election. I would even go so far as to say she probably helped Mr. Harper win the election. She will be missed.

#180 Dube on 06.27.08 at 11:16 pm

What I do know is that fearmongers are almost always proved wrong, just like they were with the Y2K crisis.

By sheila on 06.27.08 10:30 pm

Sheila, could you expound on the uneccessary massive efforts that took place in the 5 years leading up to Y2K.

Thanks.

#181 William Laidlaw on 06.27.08 at 11:41 pm

Gord G.:
An interesting hypothesis – where is your proof?

#182 Gord G. on 06.27.08 at 11:41 pm

As for the shearing off.. planets that don’t have our conditions, have little atmosphere. It’s not a big leap to realize under differing and changing conditions, we may not be able to hold on to our live-able conditions, like air. Calculated risk, this not doing anything, eh?

By barb the proof-reader on 06.27.08 9:22 pm

Meaning of life stuff, why don’t the other planets have air, yet we do? Haven’t heard we’re running out yet though, that’s news to me, when did that happen?

Gord.

#183 Men With Hats on 06.27.08 at 11:46 pm

Mans days are numbered on planet earth .

By Men With Hats on 06.27.08 10:21 pm

Pretty gloomy,

Gord.

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 11:01 pm

Well it is not all doom and gloom.Professor Lovelock feels that,we, as a species can adapt and
survive .Only in greatly reduced numbers .
This is the seventh time the planets environment has spun out of control .

#184 brain on 06.28.08 at 2:36 am

By Lawrence on 06.27.08 4:34 pm

If memory serves me correctly, Shiela is one of several alias’s that hail from an IP address out of Chicago. The only question is who’s paying her/him/it to spin out this kind of propanganda.

Shall I list the other names… Lawrence?

To the rest:

Sheila, as well as other monikers, is a bought and paid for propagandist. My guess is she’s NCC. Who knows who the moniker “Shiela” really works for definitively, its impossible to prove, but it isn’t for Canada or Canadians and the IP address she/he/it uses isn’t in Canada, so… How do I know this?

Garth addressed a different moniker posting under several monikers/names using an IP address from Chicago and the name “Sheila” was one of them.

Her latter posts, all propaganda. As an offered example:

“There has always been a vocal group of Prairie farmers who have called for a complete end to the Canadian Wheat Board’s monopoly powers over marketing; powers that are now restricted to wheat sold to foreign buyers.

The federal government and the wheat board have steadily deregulated the market, including grain transportation and restrictions on when and how much grain can be delivered to elevators for export. They’ve even opened up 10 of the 15 directorships on the wheat board to elections. But for some producers it’s not enough.

Plain and simple, farmers in the east have the freedom to market their own wheat. Western producers don’t. 12 growers found out the hard way that if you break this federal law you go straight to jail.

By sheila on 06.27.08 8:34 pm

Again, she’s a paid propagandist. For an example, 90% of Canada’s grain is grown out west. The obvious vast share of these crops is grown for international export, unlike grain grown in the east. Her assertions that 10 directors are elected are also untrue. Harper fired one farmer elected director and fired the farmer elected CEO of the wheatboard, and changed the pre-existing 5 appointed board members with 6 new fed appointed directors and 1 fed appointed CEO with the agenda of destroying the wheat board all together. Today, its 8 elected and 7 federally appointed on the CWB. The only thing that stands in the way of the CWB ceasing is the CWB act that is currently law.

This is a clip from “The Western Producer”, a prairie Newspaper most farmers suscribe to out west.

FEDS SECRET PLAN FOR CWB OUTLINED

The federal government was planning as early as August 2006 to put a gag order on the Canadian Wheat Board, fire the board’s chief executive officer, replace appointed directors with open market supporters and hold a three-option producer vote on grain marketing.

In a secret, but recently declassified cabinet document, which was presented as evidence in a Federal Court hearing in Winnipeg June 16, the government outlined a series of options for implementing marketing choice.

The court was hearing a request by the board to overturn the Oct. 5th, 2006 gag order. CWB lawyer J.D. McDougal said the document, which the board obtained last week, shows the gag order was not about saving money but about suppressing the board’s ability to speak out.

“It shows without any ambiguity what the purpose of the directive was,” he said. “It was not to save money. It is all about preventing the CWB from being a participant in the debate.”

The court had not issued a decision by deadline.

The once secret document was presented to federal cabinet and outlined a number of options for achieving the government’s policy of marketing choice, including:

– Issue an order directing the board to refrain from advocating the single desk.

– Replace the five appointed directors including the CEO with supporters of the government policy

– Hold a nonbinding three-option plebiscite, then introduce legislation for dual marketing.

– Table legislation to remove the requirement for a vote and move directly to create a dual market.

– Direct the board to issue exprot licences without charge.

The government later adopted most of these options.

VIOLATES RIGHTS

The CWB is asking the court to overturn the gag order on the grounds that it violates the CWB Act and the board’s free speech rights.

The board is also challenging the governments action in setting the compensation for interim board CEO Greg Arason in December 2006, a power the board argues belongs to its board of directors.

Before the hearing the government asked the court to dismiss both cases, arguing that the board missed a filing deadline on the gag order case and that the CEO compensation case is irrelevant now that a permanent CEO has been appointed. – by Adrian Ewins (Saskatoon News Room)

For those who don’t know the history of the CWB or recent history under Harper, Harper’s plan has been to destroy the Wheatboard but the major block in his way is the Canadian Wheat Board Act which is a federal law that protects the boards existence… up to a point.

In order for the CWB to be destroyed by the feds legally, farmers themselves have to vote in favor of its extinction. The same goes for a two desk (dual market) board. In 2006, while Con MP Anderson was minister of Agriculture, there was a plecibite vote put out to farmers over barley (not the rest of the grains, just barley alone). 14% of eligable farmers/voters responded and the vote was meant to be a plecibite and was undemocratic and unlawful in the way it was worded if it was to be taken in any other way than a plecibite (non-binding) vote. This isn’t how the federal government under Harper interpreted it, at least, so they tried legally to use it as a mandate for a dual marketing board system.

Currently, the gag law that Harper imposed on the CWB farmer elected directors to speak out in favor of a single desk has been repealed (single market buyer for grain exports).

The court ruling, handed down in June 19th of this year, (last week) ruled that the Harper imposed gag order on farmer elected directors of the board (now only 8 elected directors due to Harper, not 10 as Shiela or whoever he/she is states) violated the CWB Act and Infringed upon the baords right to freedom of speech under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

So I hope readers out there are catching on to this. If the CWB goes down, U.S. grainhandlers and food processers will benefit hugely, with Cargill/Monsanto/ADM and other U.S. agricultural monopolies monopolizing the grain growing sector and food processing of our economy overnight.

Why should you care as taxpayers? Try a dramatically shrunken tax revenue in the federal coffers from this sector. Try price fixing on grain as a commodity and as a meal that comes to your shelves from breads to processed grains in a box to oatmeal packets. Try a gouged consumer with skyrocketing prices for their meals over the long run. Try a lost economic sector to Harpers U.S. multinationalist/NCC/Bush/Republican ways, a major spike into the coffin of Canada’s economic sovereignty from the U.S. Is that reason enough for you?

If it isn’t, the paid U.S. propagandist from Chicago will be more than happy to address your lack of concerns.

As it is, Freedom of speech was challenged last week in the federal courts of our lands… and who challenged it? Stephen Harper. You can all think long and hard what kind of precident would have been set if the elected directors of the CWB would have lost their right to be free to speak to the farmers that elected them. Its last weeks untold story by Canadian media.

What kind of government tries this kind of thing with democracy and the charter of rights? How can MP’s in good conscience, serve a PM that treats our nations democracy, laws and human rights this way? Its one of dozens of ugly examples and this one is ugly, folks. Doesn’t pass the smell test is all I can say and its far, far from isolated.

#185 jwp on 06.28.08 at 6:21 am

If you are unable to respond to these valid questions now, could you apprise yourself and respond at a later time?

By Harry S on 06.27.08 10:28 pm

Why not write to Mr. Dion…maybe you would get an answer directly from him….LMAO…of course, he would know your e-mail then…that would be wonderful….try it Harry!!!!!!!!

#186 jwp on 06.28.08 at 6:30 am

Your logic escapes me,

BTW, aren’t you for an independent government, why the Dion boosting then?

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.27.08 9:21 pm

Of course it escapes you, but the discussion since the Green Shift idea has been proposed is between the two main line party leaders….and Harper has done nothing for the people with regard to thr rising prices, nothing but thrown up his hands…I do not support Mr. Dion but I do support doing something….and yes I am all for indpendent MPs and government as I have outlined many times. You were the one pointing out the West might separate because of Dion’s proposed plan, not me. I am merely pointing out that at least he is giving something back to the people rather than Harper who is going to regulate emissions and give nothing back. I would suggest rather than supporting Dion, I am being true to my mission of electing ABC!

#187 Dube on 06.28.08 at 9:32 am

What kind of government tries this kind of thing with democracy and the charter of rights? How can MP’s in good conscience, serve a PM that treats our nations democracy, laws and human rights this way? Its one of dozens of ugly examples and this one is ugly, folks. Doesn’t pass the smell test is all I can say and its far, far from isolated.

By brain on 06.28.08 2:36 am

Brain, thanks for the Canadian Wheat Board narrative. Quite informative to those of us not in the business, and more generally in the tactics employed by the goverment.

#188 Lawrence on 06.28.08 at 9:32 am

“Brain” proclaims: If memory serves me correctly, Shiela is one of several alias’s that hail from an IP address out of Chicago. The only question is who’s paying her/him/it to spin out this kind of propanganda.

Shall I list the other names… Lawrence?

Sure “Brain” knock yourself out. This paranoid conspiracy theory that you all share with each other is quite funny. I guess it’s impossible (in your view) that people would simply disagree with you of their own volition. They have to be paid agents provocateurs out to snatch your beloved country out from under you. Hilarious.

You all repeated the same, lame, unsupported slanders at Leasa for months until you slowly came to accept that she was exactly who she claimed to be; a vegetable farmer in Ontario. I must have missed all the apologies that were offered to her.

Second point; so what if Sheila is being paid to trade banter with you people here? Garth Turner is being paid to present his parties spin on events and policies and no-one cries foul about that. Just deal with the arguments as presented – if you can – and stop whining about where they come from. I’m sure I don’t have to explain to you the weakness of ad hominum arguments.

#189 Gord G. on 06.28.08 at 9:39 am

Gord G.:
An interesting hypothesis – where is your proof?

By William Laidlaw on 06.27.08 11:41 pm

Your kidding right, you won’t even agree that it’s hotter over pavement than grass and need proof, how about comon sense, do you have any of that?

Gord.

#190 Gord G. on 06.28.08 at 9:40 am

By jwp on 06.28.08 6:30 am

What does your independent candidate think of the green shift?

Gord.

#191 jwp on 06.28.08 at 10:14 am

What does your independent candidate think of the green shift?

Gord.

By Gord G. on 06.28.08 9:40 am

Be very difficult to tell as an election has not been called and no one has declared to run as an independent in my riding as yet. Should he hold the opinion that nothing needs to be done, I don’t think I could vote for him/her in good conscience. However, I would suggest all those who will run will have some suggestions to curb pollution and some environmental policy, if they don’t they will probably run under the CPC banner. We don’t have one of those either in my riding…so until the election is called, rather a mute point.
Maybe I’ll run…who knows…

#192 barb the proof-reader on 06.28.08 at 10:16 am

Meaning of life stuff, why don’t the other planets have air, yet we do? Haven’t heard we’re running out yet though, that’s news to me, when did that happen?

BY GORD G. ON 06.27.08 11:41 PM

Sorry Gord, I don’t do other people’s framed agendas, for example you reframed your own comment in a “meaning of life” statement. Just because you’ve got yourself programmed to think that’s important, doesn’t mean it is, it just means you like to set up the walls and make everyone else work within your walls. So I’ll reframe that back at you, since meaning of life is irrelevant to people who are not tricked into questions like that, questions like where does a circle start. There is important work to be done, important information that lazy humans don’t bother to study. Some certain people would like us all to remain ignorant and uninformed. I take the other view, that it is each individual’s responsibility to go a learn what there is to know. If people keep there noses in one book, reading it over and over again, they learn nothing. If people think for themselves, they can learn a great deal through observing others. It’s our duty to learn what’s going on around us. If you keep asking me questions, you aren’t really learning. I suggest you go study climate change in earnest, and figure out that the people who deny climate change, are paid lobbyists.

As for the other planets, again do some study. It’s science. It was all in elementary classes. Other planets don’t have the same atmosphere we do, they have different atmosphere or practically none at all. Our planet has a lovely balance, lucky for us, and it’s how we’re here. If we severely changes the circumstances that this planet has, our conditions will change and we could be ruining that balance that we enjoy.

Your questions become less credible, especially when you say the west will separate. That’s a politician’s threat. I’m in the west, and we’re quite literally going nowhere, just like our greedy politicians here.

#193 Dube on 06.28.08 at 10:22 am

I’m sure I don’t have to explain to you the weakness of ad hominum arguments.

By Lawrence on 06.28.08 9:32 am

Nor of unqualified sweeping statements, you all?

#194 barb the proof-reader on 06.28.08 at 10:51 am

Brain asks: “Products of our own environment vs born that way… what do you all think?”

I think you talk waaay too much. 2400 words in that self-absorbed diatribe and that’s hardly your first. Apparently you’re scolding Sheila for something but – really – who has the time to read it all.

Sheila’s point is entirely valid and I’ve made the same one myself; if your argument boils down to “Yankee go home” then you don’t understand the values you claim to embrace.

BY LAWRENCE ON 06.27.08 4:34 PM

Apparently you took the time Lawrence, and it bothered you. You did a word count.

Brain wrote an excellent comment, worth re-reading, he thinks for himself, he thoughtfully addressed her illogic, and now you are supervising him.

#195 Gord G. on 06.28.08 at 11:17 am

Your questions become less credible, especially when you say the west will separate. That’s a politician’s threat. I’m in the west, and we’re quite literally going nowhere, just like our greedy politicians here.

By barb the proof-reader on 06.28.08 10:16 am

Hi Barb,

I have studied climate change for a number of years now and find most of the cheerleaders have never heard of the IPCC problems or even read the report for that matter, they just blindly follow the scientists, they never see the other side of the issue and run like hell when somebody wants to discuss it, I on the other hand have read the IPCC report and a lot of other stuff on that side of the issue, so I have formed my opinion after a lot of research using information from both sides of the issue,

Regarding separation, the western alienation was palpable in Saskatchewan yesterday.

http://www.newstalk980.com/ondemand

Gord.

#196 Gord G. on 06.28.08 at 11:22 am

Apparently you took the time Lawrence, and it bothered you. You did a word count.

Brain wrote an excellent comment, worth re-reading, he thinks for himself, he thoughtfully addressed her illogic, and now you are supervising him.

By barb the proof-reader on 06.28.08 10:51 am

I have to confess I rarely read Brain’s posts and I didn’t read this one, 2400 words, it’s just too long, ever go for coffee with a group of people and on guy talks all the time, never shuts up, takes forever to make a point, well that’s Brain, long winded for sure, I mean can’t he make a point in less than 2400 words. Sheila, your kinda the same, shorter is better as far as I’m concerned, just another neo-CONs opinion,

Gord.

#197 sheila on 06.28.08 at 11:25 am

For a person who claim the scientific method, this is quite laughable to avoid the substance of my posts by surmising and speculating that I am a paid political operative.

I was born in Canada, have had all of my education in Canada, and have lived in Canada all of my life.

I know nothing about Chicago other than that I have had a brief stopover there in making flight connections once or twice in my lifetime.

So just because there is a “Sheila” in the world who works for some kind of political operation there, I must be the one?

Yeah, that figures, doesn’t it? What more proof do we need in coming to these ridiculous conclusions?

I have better things to do with my time than to argue with such people who are not even conscious of the narrow grid through which they see all of reality., and who create their own subjective reality regardless of objective fact.

It has been gratifying, however, to find some open minds such as jwp, and to find agreement that our present partisan political party system is deeply flawed, and that it is a big part of the problem, and not any part of the solution.

Somebody has described insanity as the mindset which refuses to change, refuses to grow up, and just keeps repeating the same old same old way of thinking, but expects a different result.

We need s system where we all start seeing our interests as intertwined and interconnected, rather than to continue to demonize one another along partisan political lines where we respond with knee jerk reactions before we even hear what is being said.

I say this with malice toward none.

#198 Lawrence on 06.28.08 at 11:26 am

Barb: Apparently you took the time Lawrence, and it bothered you. You did a word count.

I didn’t count them manually, LOL. I just cut & pasted the article into Word and hit the word count function. Also, I am not “supervising” him I am answering the question that he asked, which was “what do you think?”

You think he’s a “Brain” as advertised, I think he’s long-winded and smug. To each his own, eh?

#199 Lawrence on 06.28.08 at 11:32 am

Dube: Nor of unqualified sweeping statements, you all?

“You all” indicates all that do share in the paranoid conspiracy. If you don’t belong to that group, feel free to count yourself out of it. There is a large group here who love to speculate and cluck over who really is who. If you don’t belong to that group, congratulations on your good judgement.

#200 sheila on 06.28.08 at 11:33 am

“Products of our own environment vs born that way… what do you all think?”

It is not “either-or” but “both-and.”

These ridiculous attempts to try to polarize people about only one aspect of reality are simply an attempt to create debate and argumentation where there should be none.

There are certain things about our birth and our genes which dispose us to live in a certain way. And there are environmental influences that impact us as well.

Yet humans have been known to transcend their family predispositions and environmental background by the choices that they make.

Two people can be born into the same abusive family for example. One rises above it by the choices that they make. Another stays bitter all of their life, and allows their past to determine their future.

Free choice tells us that our past need not determine our future. It is up to us. Maturity comes with the acceptance of responsibility, not by being a whiner and a complainer all of your life.

#201 Judy on 06.28.08 at 10:49 pm

Gord: Newstalk 980– is that a liberal phone-in show? 0r conservative?
Or is it a radio show that gives equal time to opposing views?
Just wondering .

#202 Geoff on 07.01.08 at 5:36 pm

Glad to see you recognize the media is completely biased as well.

The CBC’s stories make me want to throw up. CTV doesn’t do much better these days…

At least when I visit your blog I know what to expect.