So, after I did a session on immigration at an Oakville high school today (the kids would let anybody in, I figure), and after I battled over the finance committee in Ottawa (where I have vowed to do the right thing, despite pressure), after I did a radio interview on how MPs are muzzled (in which I came unleashed) I went to a TV studio in Hamilton to shoot a piece on “Harper vs. the Media.â€
At least, that’s what I thought. The mic went on the tie and the IFB went in the ear. Donna, the peppy anchor, was prepped and ready. The lights went up, tape rolled and – whammo – it was time to talk about gay marriage in the RCMP!
Now, I am happy to expound about most anything, but this is one topic I know nothing about and actually have no opinion on. So, I skated through an initial question and waited for the topic to change, only to find I was doing a double-ender with some sanctimonious blowhard named Dr. Charles McVety.
The guy, as I later learned watching him do another interview on Duffy tonight, represents a group called Defend Marriage Canada. Guess what they want? And when I Googled him, I found he is also behind the Canada Christian College, in Toronto, and the Canada Family Action Coalition.
This is its mandate (from its web site): “CFAC brings together individuals, churches, businesses and other organizations to provide a unified thrust in promoting the Judeo-Christian worldview in Canadian society. We equip citizens to take back their rightful place as part of the decision-making process of our courts, tribunals, legislatures and Parliament. CFAC provides a voice for Canadians with common-sense principles, citizens who believe in direct democracy, and people with faith-based morality.â€
So, McVety immediately started to spout off about the liberal and amoral media in Canada, and how they are promoting – through many MPs – an agenda of hate and discrimination and godlessness. He spoke openly of the goal of faith-based groups taking over nomination meetings and electing to Parliament people who subscribe to his moral view of the world. When I argued that an MP has to represent all of the people in an electoral district and that it’s wrong for any special interest group – religious or ethnic or cultural – to hijack a nomination, he thundered and thumped and I started to worry about lightening bolts in the studio.
I later heard his group, whatever it amounts to, is targeting the nominations of several sitting Tory MPs who voted in favour of gay marriage last time around. And, after this blog posting, the same crew might target me, shipping in busloads of pious people to swamp the hall, overrun the secular devils who usually support me, and give Halton a Conservative candidate who will represent about 2% of the population.
As you might discern, I have no time for groups in our society who try to force their morals, or their culture, on the rest of us. This is not “direct democracy†but rather a plucking of the political system’s most fragile flower – the nomination meeting. In almost any riding in Canada, on any night of a nomination meeting, the arrival of 400 or 500 card-carrying insta-members will elect you a golden retriever, if that’s want they want. It is the antithesis of democracy in a country where 1% of us belong to political parties and the other 99% trust us to get it right.
Faith-based politics is fine. It has a long tradition. It can accomplish a lot of good. But when one religious or cultural group engineers a coup, overwhelming existing political party members and workers, and replacing a politician elected by a plurality of people with a single-issue monochromatic militant, well, kiss democracy goodbye.
Call it Defend Marriage Canada. Call it the Taliban. Fleurs du mal.
61 comments ↓
And the media is saying that having to submit their names to an aide is offensive…
Time to join the Libertarian ticket Garth. You’d just have to give up on the farm subsidies.
And Luke your point is??? Garth, I’m with you 100% on this post…that was at least until you used that “bring it on” phrase and I had these awful flash backs to GWB and his taunt to the Taliban. Oh Garth, please say it ain’t so.
The best way I can think of to ensure this type of highjacking doesn’t happen is for more of the arm-chair political pundits to get out of their comfy chairs and get informed by attending local association meetings. Yes – I mean get involved! Wow – what a novel idea!
If you live anywhere near Halton – you can start the process of getting involved by attending a fundraising BBQ for Garth. There will be plenty of folks there that you can chat with, discuss or debate issues and just generally become a more informed voter. Heck, you may even want to join the riding association!
Check out http://www.haltoncpc.ca if you want more details!
Go on – as Nike says — JUST DO IT!
For those of you who haven’t joined a political party, or attended a nomination meeting, take notice. In any given riding in the country, it is really only a few hundred people that select the candidate. The potentially scary truth is what Garth has mentioned is true: determined zealots can take over a riding.
Just as an example, Pierre Trudeau, a socialist with communist tendencies, was able to take over the whole Liberal Party.
What surprises me about McVety and his ilk, is that they haven’t manifested themselves in to the Liberal leadership race in any way.
Tom Wappel for leader!!!
The lights went up, tape rolled and – whammo – it was time to talk about gay marriage in the RCMP!
Just like I commented in a previous thread, the media is more interested in attempting a ‘gotcha’, than in providing balanced reporting and analysis.
God on ya not to get sucked in, Garth.
Garth, I respectfully disagree with your disdain for McVety.
I think his views and those of others like him are in large part born out of frustration, which is not surprising when you consider that we have had over 10 years of morally bankrupt government.
Further, the Liberal government was the reigning world champion of hypocrisy (and still is) – church on Sunday for Paul Martin, morally bankrupt behaviour on Monday.
As for family values, the Liberals and NDP wouldn’t even know how to spell the words.
As for the nomination process, it is hijacked all the time. It is the oldest trick in the book to ensure a particular candidate gets in. Liberal supporters have abused it. Conservative supporters have abused it. There are few saints in this regard. So why single out McVety?
Remember too that the Liberal Party was really just another form of religion….
On gay marriage Paul Martin could have easily proposed legislation that was similar to that in the UK, New Zealand, France, Germany, Portugal, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, parts of the US, the list goes on and on.
But no, from the view point of his Liberal “religion” he insisted on ramming through C38.
So it is no surprise that the McVety’s of this world are coming out of the woodwork. Offend a particular group for long enough and they will eventually starting fighting back.
I just took a peek at the Canada Family Action Coalition website. It’s dark and spooky place. These guys are nut fringe fundamentalist.
If the press can create a link between these wacknuts and the CPC in the minds of the public it’s going to do some serious damage.
If it’s proven that there IS a link between these guys and the CPC I’m votin’ Liberal next time around.
The Libs just piss me off. Jehova’s Zombies scare the hell out of me.
Are you suggesting that only 2% of the population are in favour of the traditional definition of marriage?
I guess I’m in a rather elite group.
Not at all, Paul. This groups has traditional marriage as just one of its goals, along with outlawing abortion and populating Parliament with Christians. I am suggesting a tiny minority of Canadians support those views in general. — Garth
Hi Garth,
I have been offline for about two months and have not had time to read or be on and read your articles. Just wanted to say I appreciate your time and energy and am saddened yet happy to read about where you are and where you are going for Canadians especially the middle class.
I am a financial coach or at least that is what I tell myself and others I am and continue to strive to excel at everyday. I work for the middle class best interest and the reason I do this, it that I am one of them and realize that without financial education the middle class will cease to exist in the future.
It floors me how in the 3.5 years I have been doing this in Edmonton, how many people are suffering with no financial roadmap for their present and future. I personally 3.5 years ago was the same way, however with education I changed this, and now I believe have found and am doing my calling. This may seem corny, however it saved my life and has led me on a path for success and is doing the same for myself and the people’s life’s I touch. I am a single Dad with 5 kids and a grand kid, and I want to ensure a future for them as well as all other Canadians. I realize one family at a time is slow; however it has to start somewhere.
Thank-you so much for all your wisdom, and for believing in Canadians and their right to succeed financially. While our government regardless of party seems to have forgotten, all will be made right by those of us who stand up regardless of size and numbers and be accountable for others and especially ourselves. It certainly has kept me going through the struggles of learning how to help myself and now teach and educate other to do as the same.
Good luck with your ambitions in parliament; I will definitely be one of your cheering sections. I have sent many a person to your site and to your books as well.
Thank-you from the bottom of my heart, for being you and speaking your mind and putting it up for all to see and scrutinize. I hope someday to meet you and shake your hand, for you have been a mentor to me. You have cemented the reason I do things differently in finance for people. I focus on education and financial empowerment for people so that I can restore hope for them for present and future.
Take care,
Dwight H
Edmonton
While I don’t agree with some of what Mr. McVety says, he has every right to promote his faith or try to endorse Candidates who are like-minded.
Of course there are limitation – for example, if Mr. McVety was endorsing criminal types, or hate towards groups.
When people marginalize others who may have different views, we do ourselves a disservice. The MSM is a prime example – they all read from the same book. In Canada, there no longer exists a healthy debate on anything. Look a just a couple years ago, when Stephen Harper was trying to openly discuss our “National” health care and the media and others marginalized him by “he’s dismantling our health care” and “he’s introducing a two-tier American system” , etc. Now, after the supreme court decision, it’s not such a taboo subject.
Look at the most recent “kyoto” news items. If anyone questions the validaty of Kyoto, they are marginalized and laughed at. Rona Ambrose and Stephen Harper are trying to break down the environmental issues into manageable chunks to achieve some actual results. Yet, the MSM and the sheep are not listening to logic and are condemning and marginalizing RA and SH. IMHO, Kyoto is a buzz word, and noone seems to do anything about it. But, it makes people good that they support “Kyoto”. If Canadian continue in this fashion, all we will do in 2012, is pay 10 Billion dollars to China and India for CO2 credits.
If it could happen to Rene Soetens in Ajax-Pickering it could happen to Garth Turner in Halton. Busloads of crackpots hijacked the riding so instead of a viable Conservative candidate we were asked to vote for a loose cannon who quickly became a laughing stock by hiding out for most of the campaign (Where’s Rondo?) and of course the riding went to the Liberals.
Like many others I voted for this nitwit just for the sake of voting Conservative….. but not next time. If the Party doesn’t do something about hijacking, the voters will.
“Of course there are limitation – for example, if Mr. McVety was endorsing criminal types, or hate towards groups.”
Catherine, if you want to see some thinly veiled hatred aimed at homosexuals you only have to visit the Canada Family Action Coalition website at http://www.familyaction.org/
Bear in mind that this is the stuff they think is suitable for public consumption. I shudder to think what they are saying in the back rooms.
These are not reasonable, rational people. Like the Taliban their world view is based on bronze age superstition and medieval dogma. They are dangerous.
CATHERINE: YOU SAID IT ” ONLY IF A GROUPS IS PROMOTING HATE “-THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MCVETY IS PREACHING-INTOLERANCE AND HATE TOWARDS A SPECIFIC GROUP -GAYS AND LESBIANS.
EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS THINK HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN-A HATEFUL SIN THAT WILL SEE YOU WIND UP IN HELL.
IT IS NOT JUST THE “MARRIAGE ” OF GAYS THAT THEY OPPOSE, IT IS THE FACT THAT HOMOSEXUALITY EVEN EXISTS THAT OUTRAGES THEM. THEY HAVE THIER PODIUMS TO DENOUNCE THOSE WHO DONT SHARE THEIR FAITH-ALL RELIGIONS HAVE THEIR PODIUMS -THEY ARE LOCATED INSIDE THEIR CHURCHES.
I DO NOT WANT PARLIAMENT OR ANY OTHER PUBLIC BUILDING TO BECOME THEIR PODIUM TO PREACH INTOLERANCE AND HATE.
KEEP IT IN CHURCH WHERE IT BELONGS.
“If the press can create a link between these wacknuts and the CPC in the minds of the public it’s going to do some serious damage.”
ALW, I don’t think it’s going to take the press to make the link. It’s CPC supporters like Ed Brook and ACanuck that will do the job. they live in a two color world – balck and white.
Frank,
You don’t know me, and what you have just done is shown yourself for what you are. Seems to me you are pretty intolerant, and pretty darn quick to put labels on people.
I do not see the world in black and white, never have; never will.
Frankly, Frank, you are a buffoon.
I’m no fan of religious fundamentalism (see Sam Harris’ superb book “The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason” for a good read on this topic)
That’s why the Liberal Party web site scares me. It represents another fundamental religion.
The Charter is a perfect document, never to be altered, ammended, questioned or changed in any way shape or form.
The Supreme Court justices are the high priests, and they are infallible and untouchable. Questioning them is heresy. It is simply not done.
And the religion comes complete with its own central figure, namely Pierre Trudeau, someone who was worshipped in the extreme, and still is. He was perfect, the son of all things Liberal, and he made no mistakes at all. Facts and truth don’t matter when debating his record.
A Canuck: I agree with your posting except for a few changes. Replace Liberal with Conservative, replace Supreme Court judges with Conservative M.P.’s and replace Trudeau with Mulroney and you will have it right!!
Not at all, Paul. This groups has traditional marriage as just one of its goals, along with outlawing abortion and populating Parliament with Christians. I am suggesting a tiny minority of Canadians support those views in general. — Garth
Why shouldn’t Christians participate in Parliament, along with every other interest group. As for abortion, I think it is wrong and would support legislation on it. However, I also recognize that legislation only works if a significant majority of the people support it. Otherwise it is doomed to failure.
Yes, I would agree with Ed Brooks 100%.
I’m surprised by the degree of hatrid here:
Defend Marriage = The Taliban???
CFAC = Waknuts?
Nitwits?
Crackjobs?
Dark and spooky?
Nut fringe fundamentalists?
I suppose you are the same crowd that gets bent of shape because your kid has to sing Silent Night at the end-of-year school concert.
I’m not a religious person, but I happen to know many people who generally agree with some or all of the views expressed by CFAC, and they happen to be decent, honest and sincere people.
They are not the Taliban. They are not nutwits. They are not dark and spooky.
But ultimately it is the double standard I cannot stand. All you liberals who get so bent out of shape when Christianity mixes with politics sit by and do nothing when, for example, taxpayer-funded Canadian universities provide prayer areas in full public view for Muslims.
Oh Ed, the name calling just has to stop…let’s kiss and make up. And then let’s change the subject. Your fearless leader SH twice this past week contradicted his Minister of Defence on the media coverage of soldiers caskets affair. Tell me Ed or ACanuck, which one of the two (PM or MofD) is telling the truth and which one is lying. The one that is not being honest with Canadians on this is gonna have to go.
And as for PET, I gotta agree with you fellas…he was a pompous ass who didn’t gaive a damn what Canadians thought of him. Just like Leathervest Harper. The only difference beign that PET was able to pull it off and Harper can’t. People don’t have to like you, but they do have to respect you. So far, Harper hasn’t been able to master the respect. And I’m getting this from many of my best friends that are staunch CPC supporters. They are starting to think the party made the wrong choice. Oh, WWPMD.
This blog is becoming so polarized.The Liberals did some good things during their terms of office,and they screwed up as well.The same applies to the Conservative party of the past,and Harper will be in the same boat.
Good ideas and great policies come from listening to different points of view and creating even better ideas from them.Being ridgidly Liberal or Conservative is actually a minority position in Canada-It’s the swing voters that elect the governments.
Some of you need to smoke a joint and get mellow!
Judy,
I’m not why you so angry – you don’t have to shout, I can read just fine
.
So what if evangicals think that. Do they tell anyone to go out and hunt down a gay person?
But, for you, it’s OK to demonize anyone who disagrees with your point of view?
Judy, I find that you do assume alot and you just write rhetoric.
Just from what I’ve read here today, I can see that there is a LOT more hatred for Christians and other religious groups in Canada then I’ve EVER seen from any Christians in regards to homosexuals.
“KEEP IT IN CHURCH WHERE IT BELONGS”, “These guys are nut fringe fundamentalist”, “These are not reasonable, rational people†and “Jehova’s Zombies” are just a few examples.
I’ve never forced anyone to my beliefs or told anyone what to think (on the whole gamut of issues) or tried to silence anyone from speaking their mind. If you ask me, the people trying to marginalize those like McVety are far more dangerous to Canadian democracy than any religeous group. Any opinion they disagree with they do everything they can to demonize (no religious intonation intended), marginalize and silence.
“Wellâ€, you might Say. “I’m a fiscal conservative but I sure don’t agree with those religeous types on a whole bunch of issuesâ€. Just remember what happens to people in Ontario in the last few years who call for a tax cuts. They are now frequently accused of wanting to put peoples lives at risk because of departmental cutbacks (a la the Wakerton affair).
If Canadians get used to this marginalization of ideas, it will cost us some great ideas all across the political board and our freedom of speech.
BTW, just before the vote on Gay marriage my priest was preaching not hate, but telling us all that Homosexuals were fellow children of God and that to hate them was to hate God. So much for preaching hate. Not that the truth will stop some of you.
I think that religion has no place in Canadian politics. These extreme Christians have no value to our country and only try to push their message of Jesus and the Lord down everyones throats. Then when people disagree with them they cry blaspomy. I think there is no god and we should just try to live our lives as we would want to be treated back. I think these religions were created because people are scared to die and need comfort thinking there is some fantasy place to go to afterwords. My view of hell is starving in Africa or some other place. People should not judge people by Colour, Religion or sexual oriantation or any other reason.
Garth is right when he says that a politician should represent all the people not just the ones that they agree with.
Hi Garth,
You say that you know little about gay marriage and do
not have an opinion on the subject. I’m writing you
today to see if I can give you bit of a nudge in a
certain direction on this issue.
I’m not a member of the gay community myself and don’t
even know anyone who is openly gay. This is not by
choice, it just happens to be a fact.
My Friend is a manager at a hotel downtown
that caters to many of these gay weddings. Now
I realize that one cannot paint a whole community with
one brush, but she tells me that members of the gay
community do tend to share a lot of common
characteristics. Besides, of course, being gay.
She says that they tend to be professionals who work
hard and seem to have quite a bit of expendable cash.
They work hard so they can play hard. As a hotel
manager she certainly likes this.
They tend to be respectful of hotel property and
courteous to staff. They know exactly what they want
from the hotel and communicate it effectively. Oh and
yes, they are in fact neat!
As you can guess, she is all in favour of gay
marriage. It’s great for her business and I doubt that
they limit their spending to the hotel when they’re in
town for these events.
So let’s see. Hard working, professional Canadians who
are intelligent, respectful and courteous. My
apologies to the gay community for smearing you folks
with such horrendous stereotypes.
Again, just a bit of a nudge Garth, but it certainly
sounds like these are your type of people. Take care
and keep up the great work.
Andrew
Paul has posed the question, “Why shouldn’t Christians participate in Parliament?”
Christians have every right to participate in Parliament. Fundamentalists who owe their allegiance to the Jehovah of the Old Testament and not the Canadian Constitution or a conventional party platform should be honest and run under the Christian Heritage Banner. I get concerned when they resort to the subversive tactic of trying to undermine an existing party to promote their narrow (and irrational) world view.
They know full well that they do not have the support of a significant portion of the population and they are quite comfortable in trying to pull a con job on the Canadian people to get elected. They justify this deception because they are doing “God’s work.” They can justify ANYTHING as long as they can call it “God’s work.” People who fly airplanes into buildings justify it by saying they are doing “God’s work.” These people have no morality. They will merely do whatever their personal prejudices require of them and justify it by quoting scripture.
We need parliamentarians who will strive to represent the people of this country not some mythical, bronze age diety.
To Frank 2:05:
The only difference beign that PET was able to pull it off and Harper can’t. People don’t have to like you, but they do have to respect you. So far, Harper hasn’t been able to master the respect. And I’m getting this from many of my best friends that are staunch CPC supporters. They are starting to think the party made the wrong choice.
Oh really! Who are your friends exactly who think they made the wrong choice in a guy who pulled them from the political wilderness into a minority government and in the last 100 days into polling numbers not seen in 20 years and yet who think they made the wrong choice? Oh that all of my wrong choices turned out that positive.
ALW, so know Christians should stay within their own Party (not good enough for the national ones)? What an inclusive, open minded person you are. Sounds like you’re more akin to the Taliban then they are.
Hummm… I wonder if one tells a fellow human that he is living in sin, is that hate? If I tell someone not to steal is that hate. To me it seams more like love to correct or warn someone.
WOG:
The Christian Heritage Party IS a national party. They share the same aims and aspirations as McVety and his group. Any Christian fundamentalist that wishes to run for office in order promote his religious views should feel quite comfortable under the CHP banner. I disagree with them but I respect their open and honest attempt to become part of the political process.
Any Christian fundamentalist that wishes to run for office in order promote his religious views by undermining the nomination process in the CPC is being dishonest and subversive. They lack sufficient credibility with the public to get elected honestly so they are prepared to resort to lies and trickery. They are simply conmen and their behaviour demeans the CHP’s efforts.
And WOG, at no time did I state that Christians should stay within their own party. I clearly differentiated between Christians and Fundamentalist conmen in the first two sentences. You are, on the other hand, quite correct that I am not inclusive. I will continue to discriminate against hucksters and conmen, bible totin’ or otherwise.
Frank and Judy…sometimes it is better to say nothing and others will question your intelligence then to speak and remove all doubt…….
After 13 years of Liberal scandal, corruption, lies, power infighting, and immoral spineless direction, the last thing Parliment needs is a leader who believes in God….
Personally, Gay marriage is a dead issue for me; it’s been that way since the law was past. As a student of history I have always liked Pierre Elliott Trudeau- to me he was the last Prime Minister that made Canadians care; you either passionately liked him, or passionately hated him.
As for Democratic reform, and the one knock I have against the CPC; reforms of any kind should be couched in terms that Canadians understand and put before them not in a bill as is likely going to happen next week, but directly as a part of an election platform. Whatever changes made will affect Canada, long after Stephen Harper’s government is gone and such change shouldn’t be lightly undertaken; and you guys should keep that in mind.
-Laura S.
John: I don’t care what God our leader chooses to believe or not believe in. It makes no difference to me.
I just dont want him using that God or the Bible as a sole basis or reason for forming policies or laws.
Gary: The difference is : stealing is against the law of the land. “living in sin” (whatever that means) is not.
It may be contrary to your beliefs, but that does not mean it is wrong.
Thank you John G. well said.
Just a thought for those who think “We need parliamentarians who will strive to represent the people of this country not some mythical, bronze age diety. “
Many of our current Canadian laws and current societal programs came from fundamental Christian beliefs to forgive one another, to love one another and to help one another. Many Christian churches (Catholic, Anglican, etc.) were the first ones to start food programs, shelters, etc. Many Christian organizations have been helping third world people – risking their lives to help and save other lives. All this BEFORE it become the “in” thing to do.
So if these good Christian people believe and govern themselves according to a “mythical, bronze age diety”, maybe we should all be so fortunate to know them and respect them.
Catherine:
Forgiveness, love and charity are not uniquely Christian sentiments. They form the basis for all the world’s major religions. This makes them fundamental Human(istic) beliefs. No deity required.
ps: It’s “e†before “i†in deity. I misspelled it in my previous post too.
Catherine: You have left out some violent historic episodes in the evolution of Christianity. Countless numbers of people were murdered in the name of Christianity. Non-believers were executed. Women were branded as “witches” and burned.
Yes, faith-based groups do a lot of good in the world as do non-faith based groups.
I believe people are basically good and caring regardless of their membership in organized religion.
I think this is indicative of a disturbing trend in the media to seek out the more extreme elements in society, tart them up to be major players and then use them as a springboard to create a “controversy”. The reality appears to be that this McVety person is really pretty irrelevent to most Canadians. I’m increasingly disillussioned by the lack of substance and/or analysis in the media. If I want scandal I’ll buy the National Enquirer
Judy – well let’s just go back 1000 years old – sheesh…..
My point was that our Canada and its laws were very much based on Jeudeo-Christian beliefs and has evolved to present day. That is fact!
So to dismiss that is that is just dishonest.
Over the last several decades, Christians have been marginalized and called many derogotary names. In fact, Divinci Code is just the latest attack. Yet, do you see Christians protesting the streets? Do you see Christians burning buildings? Do you see Christians causing kaos?
BTW: What did we see in USSR (where religous organizations were banned)? What did we see in Nazi Germany (where secular central[fascist] was forced and young were brainwashed).?
When you use Christian history as a basis for some of our laws, then surely I, too can use Christian history as a reason for violence in the world.
Not exactly sure what Christians would be rioting in the streets about?
A movie? A Book? I read the DA Vinci code and found it to be a great mystery.
Didn’t make me want to go out and shut down all the Catholic churches for cover-ups and secrets.
I had a choice whether I read the book or not. I have a choice whether I see the movie or not.
Oh, and if Christians want to spread the word, why not open up their churches 7 days a week instead of the 2 hours that they are open? Seems a waste of space and money to only get the message out for 2 hours a week.
There are lots of churches-only one publicly funded Parliament-
Catherine. The daVinci code is not an attack on the church. It’s a piece of speculative fiction, like the Neil Gaimen novel American Gods or Towing Jehovah. It’s a good deal more famous than either of those really good books but it’s just fiction. It’s not an attack.
Well then we can say that the Mohammed cartoons are just not that offensive, right?
Judy, you are quite childish. Church services may be held once a week, however, a true Christian lives accordinly 7/24. Their living example is spreading the message – be it volunteering, teaching, forgiving others, helping others, etc.
not too be miscontrued…
I do support peoples rights to their opinions, even if they disagree with my own.
If you are in favour of the church staying out of the business of the state, are you also in favour of the state staying out of the business of the church? If so then we can expect to see you put forward legislation which would make it so that the role of government will no longer be as the principle charitable agency in our country, as well as another recognizing that the state has no right to define marriage, gay or straight.
Marc:
“…while politicians call someone who does not subscribe to their secularist views the Taliban is a perfect example that Christianity is under attack.â€
In the above quote I assume you are referring to Garth’s closing statement in the blog entry. If that is the case he was responding to this…..
“I later heard his group, whatever it amounts to, is targeting the nominations of several sitting Tory MPs who voted in favour of gay marriage last time around. And, after this blog posting, the same crew might target me, shipping in busloads of pious people to swamp the hall, overrun the secular devils who usually support me, and give Halton a Conservative candidate who will represent about 2% of the population.â€
The response was to a threat made by a radical fundamentalist Christian group AGAINST the CPC! So precisely WHO is attacking WHO ?(…or whom, I never get that one straight.) In this case it is Christianity, in the person of Charles McVety, doing the attacking. The response was one of self defense!
You are twisting the truth to serve your own purposes and reinforce your own prejudices. Please do me a favour and pull your head out of your *** .
Do you mean, ass? — Garth
I saw McVety on Mike Duffy Live & was a tad perturbed. First of all, WHAT was Mike thinking having him there at all? As for his intent to hijack constituencies, well, he’s a bit of an idiot for being so obvious about it, isn’t he?
Sadly, hijacking constituencies seems to be a tried & true part of Cdn politics – look at what happened to Chuck Cadman, for example, and the sorry result for the then-Alliance? or was it CPC? I forget.
The upside is that the candidates he targetted (if I recall they were Jason Kenney, Jim Prentice and I forget the other, maybe Rona?) all have huge popularity in their ridings, so they can round a defense quite handily if necessary, I’m sure (I hope, anyway).
The other reality (I hope) is even if they were successful and replaced a handful of non-fundamentalist MPs, they would still not be in the majority in the party, so I’m not sure what radical changes they could impose.
Actually I was tempted to fill in the blanks with “pew” but decided to leave it open to interpretation.
…. make this disappear if you like. It doesn’t really add anything to the discussion.
Great post.
ii probably took my angry pills that day, i was just saying that Christianity does seem to be under attack…not that I subscribe to everything that the church says and/or does, but from just a critical perspective it seems that Christianity gets ridden harder than Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc
As for what Garth said…it seems a tad extreme to compare them to the Taliban, but they are both groups who twist religion to serve their own purposes
Garth,
What did you mean during the TV interview when you said something like ” busloads of ethnics” could take over a meeting?
Why are you targeting ethnic Canadians? Do you view them as less than Canadian than yourself and your “like-minded” friends ?
It seems you have a very narrow view of who should be allowed to participate in democracy.
Your real heart and attitude has just been exposed and I think most Canadians, not just “groups” nor “religous” people will have a strong reaction to your attitude and beliefs.
I worked in the mental health field for a number years, some of your comments have me asking some questions.
This is the most bizzarre and derogatory rant agaisnt religous people that I have encountered in nine years.
I have not been compared to the Taliban since a member from another party made a similar bigotted comment.
You have just given evidence of why the Prime Minister has to guide the actions of some MPs. Your comments are more harmful to the CPC than anything CFAC has ever done.
sincerely,
Brian Rushfeldt
Executive Director , CFAC
Nice try, Brian. Check the tape. I referred to any cultural, religious or ethnic group that tried to swamp a nomination meeting to get a special interest candidate nominated. Whatever organized group engages in this activity, “democractic” is not a word that applies. — Garth
So … how do you feel about Stephen Harper travelling the country speaking at fundraisers for this group, the money then used to run 3rd party ads during the election.
The whole thing is just plain wrong.
garth, I don’t know how you walk around when you continually have both feet in your mouth. Let’s try some good ‘old canadian manners and understanding. I have news for you. Politics is a circle. You go far enough to the left or right and you end up in the same place.
Are you suggesting that only 2% of the population are in favour of the traditional definition of marriage?
I guess I’m in a rather elite group.
Not at all, Paul. This group has traditional marriage as just one of its goals, along with outlawing abortion and populating Parliament with Christians. I am suggesting a tiny minority of Canadians support those views in general. — Garth
Okay, so you actually think that 2% of the population want Christians, want traditional marriage and don’t want abortion. Boy, you certainly need to get out of the Toronto area. Its pretty pathetic when you call these Christians the Taliban when they don’t suit your views of things, I’m sure the pot could be calling the kettle black in this case.
Maybe you should work on your reader comprehension. First, I said that the number of people in my riding who are anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion and religious Christian political activists is tiny. That’s the conclusion I have reacshed after knocking on every door. What’s your evidence? Second, I never called the McVety group Taliban, but rather likened any religious group that seeks to take over a political system in order to impose an agenda of their own faith on all people, to the one in Afghanistan which did exactly that. — Garth
Thank you Mr. Turner.
Don’t back down.
Aiee, what is any clear thinking person to do with this secular totatitarian criminal state, that is Canada? It is to weep. A lot of folks just look after their prurient interests.. whilst everyone pays the bills, eg. medicare pays for what? I am sure that no one dares describe what medicare pays for as folks pursue what is near and dear to their hearts.
Garth:
Your last paragraph on June 5th:
“Faith-based politics is fine. It has a long tradition. It can accomplish a lot of good. But when one religious or cultural group engineers a coup, overwhelming existing political party members and workers, and replacing a politician elected by a plurality of people with a single-issue monochromatic militant, well, kiss democracy goodbye.”
Isn’t this exactly what is happening with the gay rights agenda – but in a broader socal sense?
The gay issue is not a “rights†issue or even a “hate†issue…it’s a healing issue. As an MP you really have a resposibility to learn more about this one.
The Judeo-Christian and secular moral value systems can’t coexist together for long. They are anathema to one another. Your reaction in this blog is liberal proof of it (no pun intended). The former is the only value system that can maintain and nurture a civilzation while the latter will ultimately poison and ruin any that it infects. There really is a God and not believing in Him won’t make Him go away.
Cheers!
God Garth, get a life. Your little clique of followers who relentlessly agree with everything you spew, is, well, pathetic.
Despite your most diehard attempts to portray Canada as a bunch of liberal hippies- wrong. You only need to look to the last election. Oh no, Christians disagree with your viewpoint? So instead of logically debating them, you compare them to the Taliban? I’m sorry. Last I heard, they weren’t advocating for beheading anyone, only asking that their children not be subjected to homosexually-laced propaganda at school. Actually, those same Christians you just critized are over there in Afghanistan trying to fry as many Taliban as possible, so terrorists like those 17 we caught last week don’t storm parliament and try to behead you.
I’m surprised Harper has kept you on this long.
My comment is for Mr’s Rushfeldt and McVety. I agree that the tactics that your groups (ie, Defend Marriage, Christian Coalition what have you) go way beyond what is tasteful disagreement, although, the Taliban bulldozes concrete walls against gay people to crush them alive, your groups create imaginary walls and then topple them. I can understand that your groups oppose homosexual people and will go to great lengths to keep us in the closet or deny civil rights but we are not going away and will not go back into the closet. It is time that you focused more of your efforts on issues that really do affect the christian population such as the high divorce rate, spousal and child abuse and how about mind control. The gay community does not want or invite your interference and we would respectfully request that your groups butt out of our lives. I have read much of your doctrine and it is pure unmitigated hate drivel. Your groups are very skilled at cloaking their prejudices in “religious freedom”, as well as deflecting the culpability you have in prejudices and criminal activity against gay people. Just go away please. Thank you.
I though that i would put a comment and see if any of you reply to my email or read what i have to say and hope to here from anyone that read’s this
mr Jason S Adams
jsadams@lisco.com