The CTV reporter pulled me out of a committee meeting today and it became clear a few moments later why Bob Fife was being so clandestine – he had a big story. As it turns out, somebody in the know told him what it cost Canadian taxpayers to go and pick up about 12,000 people in Lebanon and send them to safety by ship and plane in Cyprus, Turkey, Montreal and Toronto. The bill, he says: $85 million.
This, of course, was the summertime evac of Canadian citizens from the scene of the intense, but short-lived, conflict between Hezbollah and Israeli Defence Forces. What started as a perfectly legitimate mission of mercy, heroically pulled off to rescue our people, turned into a big question mark as we learned as many as 25,000 Lebanese residents hold Canadian citizenship. Anyway, in we went, ultimately getting about half of them out.
Now Fife tells me that of the 12,000-odd rescued at our expense a few weeks ago and brought all the way to Canada, that 7,000 or so have gone back home – where they live full-time as Lebanese. So much for that summer trip to Canada. And this situation, I hate to say it, was exactly what I was cautioning against when people were lined up on the dock in Beirut. There were at least two groups of constituents of mine – residents of Halton on vacation in Lebanon – who were bumped from the queue to be rescued by full-time Lebanese homeowners who were waving their Canadian passports.
So, we have some questions to be answered, clearly. Do we give out these citizenships far too easily to way too many people? Do we have a responsibility to rescue anyone with a maple leaf passport, even if they have moved out of Canada and will never return? Should Canadian citizenship expire after a certain period of time of non-residency here? Should people with valid Canadian citizenship who have moved back to their homelands continue to pay tax here, if they expect our protection? Should it take more than three winters in this place to get the same rights and privileges as people born here, or who have invested decades of their lives in this country?
I was troubled by questions like these, and raised a number of them when the evacuation was in progress. That earned me the condemnation of Arab groups and a few Liberal MPs. I was called racist and intolerant and was even dumped on from a great height by the European eggheads who write important stuff in The Economist. So much for continental perspective.
But, dammit, I’m sticking by my principles and beliefs on this issue. Fact is, we spent $85 million or so transporting a lot of people who have a hard time filling the definition of “Canadian,†half of whom evidently turned around and went home. So, I hope we all learn some lessons from this.
PMSH has said the Lebanon experience has underscored the need to review dual citizenship, and I appreciate his support. I’d say the course of action now is to get this issue into a House of Commons committee which can hear from Canadians and change the rules before another Lebanon happens. And it will. We now have a mess of people out there with big expectations.
84 comments ↓
You’re asking the right questions. It’s not racist to question whether we’re being taken advantage of.
Just caught your bit on the CTV national news item regarding the $85 million it cost to evacuate all those Canadians from Lebanon- and now 7000 of these Canadians are back in Lebanon !!!
What a convenient piece of paper that citizenship document is for those people who, as I understand it don’t (for the mostpart) pay any taxes in Canada !
Thanks for taking the lead in criticising this lunacy. I thought the Liberal attempt to introduce a modified form of Sharia law in Ontario was the ultimate in (Liberal) gerrymandering for our frenetic times but this takes the prize !
More and more of us are reacting to the silliness daily told us in the news each item of which shows this wonderful country slipping into complacency.
Thanks for your leadership in confronting this malaise.
Regards
Fred Riche
Mr. Turner,
The reason why your proposal to take away non-whites’ Canadian Citizenship will not happen because the government will not openly admit to its racist bias. If there is a law taking away the citizenship of Canadians who reside abroad, it will have to apply to White Canadians also. That would include several Anglos who were born in Canada but live abroad, as well an Northern European and American Immigrants. And we know that you know better than to tell White people what they can or cannot do. So please, instead of continuing to make a fool of yourself, respect your fellow Canadians like you yourself would like to be respected.
Who said anything about white or non-white? The principles behind my comments stand, regardless of what colour you might be. You need help. — Garth
Mr. Turner, can you please work hard on changing Canada’s Immigration Policy, I’m fed-up!!!! I seen a news clip today (Tuesday, September 19, 2006) with your comments, in which some Lebanese (Canadians) want to move back to Lebanon after Canadian Tax Payers bailed them out of their troubled country during the war with Israeli. Reports say that it cost Canadian tax payers over 85 million dollars to help these people.
These people have no thanks to Canadians. I say take away their right to be a Canadian, why are we supporting them when they don’t even care about the country that helped them, their not grateful. We don’t need them, they don’t pay taxes, what is Canada getting from these people?
It’s a honour to be a Canadian and these people are just one example of how we have to re-evaluate, make changes and tighten our immigration policy. Good hard working people who want to live in Canada, make a new life for themselves and who will benefit our country are not even able to move here.
Canada’s Immigration Laws are a Joke!!!! Please press your government and be the strong leader that you are and start making changes to our Immigration Policy. Your fellow Canadians will thank you.
Thank you
Wayne
“PMSH has said the Lebanon experience has underscored the need to review dual citizenship, and I appreciate his support”………..
This issue represents in my opinion your finest hour Garth….an issue that matters to all Canadians and taxpayers…..this is yet another example of the Liberals attempt at vote buying over the last 30 years….we need to reverse this…..I’m not surprised PMSH backs you…he always backs GOOD policy……
BTW…it would be nice to get some legs on this story and the costs involved….very well done Garth……..
I apretiate that maybe something should be done too prevent people from abuseing what Citizenship of this great contry means, we need to teech imigrants and there children too respect Canada. However in the given situation our blame is being misplaced. The Bill for this evacuation should be sent too Israel or even our neighbor too the south for funding the atacks on lebanon. It is time someone other then George Galloway in a political postition stood up and spoke the truth without fear of the US/Israel or being called anitsymatic, If Israel’s poor excuses where true they would have chosen there targets more carefully and warned us too evacuate our citizens weeks before the attacks.
Wow, 85 million by 12k is more then 7k each. I hope we could bill the people who did can not provide a unused return ticket. That would be the white people as well Oscar, in case you were wondering. What is to stop these “Canadian Citizens” from coming back in their retired years and being able to use our healthcare system? Regards
Oscar – I am truly puzzled by your comment about non-whites. I am of pure Lebanese descent and I can assure you that I am as white as any Caucasian. In fact, I can barely work up a tan – I burn like you wouldn’t believe – and I the blood in my veins is pure Lebanese descent. Your comment is racist – you are assuming that Lebanese people are non-white – as if that would matter even if it were true.
Arabic people are, historically (if you ever read a book about us), all shades – our skin runs from the whitest white to the blackest black. Our eyes are brown, blue, green, hazel, grey – take your pick. You, Oscar, are racist in your assumptions.
Garth – bravo. It is unacceptable that we Canadian taxpayers footed the bill for these dual citizens of convenience. We have carried political correctness way too far. I agree 100% with your stance and I will support you completely in your efforts to rectify this idiocy of taking care of people who clearly take advantage of our generosity. Stay the course on this one.
Oscar – one final word – grab a brain.
Garth
I agree we need to visit the immigration policy and ensure that people that are coming to Canada are genuine in there motives. Don’t let people use the “colour” card on you, that is really cheap and “last resortish” (my word … may not actually be a word!)
Keep up the good workish.
I agree – no racists or bigotry here at all. It is simply double speak by these convenient citizens.
I work very hard for my dollars. I pay Canadian taxes. These “canadians” don’t! And many haven’t for a very long time. Why am I paying for their evacuation?
If they choose to live in their other country, then, let their other country of their hyphenated citizenship pay for their well being, including their evacuation. Seems fair to me.
Garth,
Help me understand your position on this, especially how it relates to my case. I am a Canadian, who was born, and lived 95% of my life in Canada. I am a Canadian citizen, and a Canadian tax resident, and pay taxes in Canada & Australia. I currently live 9 months of the year in Australia, and 3 months in Oakville. I own companies who provide jobs for Canadians in both Canada & Australia.
I am also in the process of also obtaining Australian citizenship, but will keep my Canadian citizenship as well.
If the East coast of Australia was wiped out by a tsunami, could I count on help from the Canadian Government, if it was up to you? My taxes in Canada were $500,000 last year. Am I less important than a tourist on EI from NFLD stuck in the same situation?
Not a question to you Garth, but your readers – does the answer change if my name was Muhammed, or if my country was India? It may do some Canadians well to look up the word xenophobia.
There is not a Bronze/Silver/Gold Canadian passport for a reason.
Hello Garth:
Just got in from work and picked up from CTV’s internet that you have taken a stand on the Lebanon issue.
Admired your work from the Toronto Sun days, bought a few of your books too. Respect your commitment to responsible government and fiscal issues.
Let me know if there is a way I may help your party, I am in Beamsville, Town of Lincoln, Niagara.
Fred Sherriff
Dear Garth,
Per the article below,
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060919.wlebanon19/BNStory/National/home
I am a a second generation Canadian citizen ( single citizenship holder ) of European extraction who was born in Canada 55 years ago. I was / might have been caught in the middle of the last two Middle East wars as I have been working overseas as a non resident tax payer in the past. I also have a Filipino partner-in-life. I believe I have a broader / different view of the issues contained in the news article than most.
I believe there is / was a problem. However, I also believe that the problem is / was not only one of economics associated with immigration rules but one that is much deeper in the definition of what it is to be a Canadian citizen. I am very concerned that there will be a knee jerk reaction, subsequent overkill, and a missing of the boat by parliamentarians to the economic impact of the $ 85M tab to the Canadian tax payor whereby other Canadian / yet to be Canadian citizens not associated with the latest evacuation will eventually be penalized.
For example, I believe the recent issues were ones of weak policy. I do not believe the recent issues were related to dual citizenship or time out-of-country or the fact that 7,000 people have now returned to Lebanon after the fighting stopped as the above article implies. These are emotional points only. I do believe, however, that there are issues of economic absorption and Canadian citizen participation in unsanctioned foreign wars. I also believe these complex issues have very simple solutions and must not be caught up / lost in the emotions of the day.
I would like to volunteer my services. I, as a Canadian citizen and former international business consultant with an international viewpoint, am willing to become involved in the pending discussion in order to formulate a new policy to govern such situations as recently occurred.
Please advise if I can be of service,
Sincerely,
Gary F.
Oscar
We need to keep as many of as you call them “Whites” in this country as possible because they seem to be the only people who continually serve in our military, look at the casualty rate in Afganastan if my memory is correct only 1 has been a visable minority the rest in your word would be considerred Whites.
Oscar maybe it’s time certain minority groups step up to the plate and give something back to Canada by joining her Military.
… fairly easy to solve if anyone has the political will to do it. Dual citizenship, regardless of which countries are involved, is a luxury. I believe that most non-resident citizens retain their Canadian citizenship as a form of insurance – specifically in case of situations such as the recent Lebanon crisis. If I want to ensure that I am not going to suffer any serious consequences should my motorcycle or my boat get stolen or damaged, or if I should become ill, my house were to burn down or my apartment get robbed, I purchase insurance from an avaricious, unscrupulous financial services monolith. If a non-resident citizen wants to retain all of the rights and priveleges enjoyed by a resident citizen, let them purchase them by paying taxes (to a similarly avaricious, unscrupulous bureaucratic monolith).
Chris, you’ve got to be kidding – send the bill to the US or Israel??!! George Galloway – the guy’s a nut, have you actually “seen him in action”??!!! He rants and raves and spews hatred of the US and Isreal while sympathizing with terrorists – he’s definately on the “lunatic fringe”!
How anyone can claim that the US/Isreal are at fault for the recent Isreal/Hezbollah war and that the terrorists are not to blame has absolutely no idea of the real facts involved!! You need to do a lot more homework there Chris!!
People love to blame the US foreign policy for every ill in the world and “Bush bash” at every opportunity but they forget a couple of things:
1) Many countries have far worse foreign policy such as France, China, and Russia. Those countries act ONLY to serve their own financial or political interests and couldn’t CARE LESS about actually helping people in this world. For example, the only reason France is against sanctions being imposed or Iran right now is because of their financial/oil interests in that country. The same reason they and Russia voted against invading Iraq during the last UN Security Council resolution – oil interests! It was not the US that wanted the oil there it was these other countries!! France owed BILLIONS to Iraq!!
2) If the US’s foreign policy is to blame for the middle east problems then how do you explain all of the other bombings/killings of innocents in many nations the world (Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, Bali, Spain, etc) and especially in the Sudan (Darfur) where Arab Muslims are killing hundreds of thousands of African Muslims…in this case people are “demanding” that the US come in and “save the day” (which would put them in virtually the same situation as Iraq) – you can’t have it both ways!!
Man, the ignorance just pisses me off!!
I will tell you this. The vast and mean VAST majority of the 50,000 Lebanese-Canadians got their citizenship as refugees. Canada is the ONLY country in the world that ever grants citizenship to refugees. Why? Because refugees circumvent the screening process that ensures that it we who select who will become citizens, not the other way around. I am not against granting refugees asylum when justified, but once conditions improve in their home country they should be compelled to return to help rebuild. Again, Canada is the ONLY country in the world that ever grants citizenship to refugees. There is a very valid reason for not doing so. But remember, immigrants and refugees once they become citizens historically vote Liberal. It was a Liberal government that dumbed down the citizenship requirements to include refugees. Now you know. Canada must take back control of exactly who becomes a citizen. The solution is that simple.
Mr.H: If you insist that the Non-white minority groups step up and volunteer thier services in the military, then I suggest the same for the minority non-poor group. The middle and lower income earners in Canada seem to be disproportionately represented in the military as well. Time for the rich to step up to the plate, too.
The relevant laws should be changed; Canadians abroad who do not pay Canadian taxes – those that claim non-resident tax status – should not be allowed to retain Canadian citizenship. Americans living outside the U.S. must file U.S. tax returns and pay tax on their worldwide incomes (deducting taxes paid to qualifying local national and provincial jurisdictions). If a Canadian abroad files Canadian taxes, he or she can retain his or her Canadian citizenship. If a Canadian abroad fails to file returns or fails to remit taxes owing, citizenship can be said to have lapsed. There could be some grace period – followed by the revokation or assumed renunciation of Canadian citizenship.
I wonder how many of the 7000 souls that have returned to Lebanon were also provided with housing and took advantage of medical benefits.
Just curious…at this point we are discussing the future policies. Yes…we need some changes that will make individual’s accountable. Which brings me to my question…will any of those 7,000 that returned be ‘accountable’ for their trip? Will they be taxed or billed…and how about those that stayed? Since they are ‘citizens’ are they independent now ..or are we ’supporting’ them.I’m one of those hard working tax payers that gets tired of doing without, and watching our socialistic system give and give to the takers.
I am an INDO-CANADIAN with Dual Citizenship who firmly believes that Canadian Taxpayer should not pay for evacuation cost. We should evacuate Canadians but they should pay for it. Citizenship should be granted only after 7 years.
I generally agree with your position on this Garth. It certainly seems we need to reexamine exactly what Canadian citizenship means. It doesn’t mean I think we should have left those citizens in Lebanon as it was our responsibility to take care of them as Canadian citizens at the time. If we find a problem in how our citizenship rules work we have to fix that problem BEFORE we deny help to those already considered Canadians.
Perhaps we should come up with some rule that governs Canadians living in foreign countries that demands that if they request assistance from the Canadian government to flee their current country of residence, that they must return to Canada in order to hold their citizenship or forfeit their Canadian citizenship if they return to the country from which they have fled within a certain time period. It only makes sense to me. It gives them the option of choosing which country they are a citizen of.
Just as a question Garth, with you showing as much concern about this as you have, how much time have you spent working with your fellow Conservative MP’s on coming up with a solution to this problem?
This is pretty off-topic, but it’s a major concern that I think, as an MP from the ruling party, you may want to look in to.
Apparently, some (if not all) civil servants are being told to refer to themselves as being part of the “New Canadian Government.” While I can definitely understand the importance of the Conservatives distancing themselves from previous administrations, the fact is that the civil service is supposed to be relatively beyond partisan politics.
Unless the name of the country has experienced some sort of coup that no one noticed, or has changed its name to New Canada, I think that such an edict would be massively arrogant and completely uncalled for.
I understand that you’re exceptionally busy, but if you could look in to this, it would be greatly appreciated.
[...]
Daily Blogger | September 20th, 2006
Garth Turner | Citizens of convenience The CTV reporter pulled me [...]
“The middle and lower income earners in Canada seem to be disproportionately represented in the military as well. Time for the rich to step up to the plate, too.”
Judy, could you provide statistical information that illustrates this point. I always hear the statement about how the US military is disproportionate in its makeup of the poor, but all the statistical evidence speaks to the contrary (in the US, the difference in average wages between military and non-military familes is around $5,000 / yr and only if you take out the high end earners in the military). Look at Michaal Moore in Fahrenheit 911 suggesting that Senators’ children aren’t in the military when in terms of actual percentage of population vs percentage of Senators’ children in the arm, Senators’ children are twice as likely to enter the army than your average citizen.
So, could you show us your studies that indicate how this is true in the Canadian military? I have only heard this as rumor, but never seen any facts to back it up.
Charley (with no last name)
Facts? where are yours? This is not about other contires foriegn policy, this is a specific situation I am speaksing about. Here is a fact the US gives Isreal 50 BILLION a year in military support, Those missles that hit churches and UN posts paid for bye our american friends, the bombs killing civilian families on the beach, paid for bye The USA. You really wanna bring up Darfur in an unrelated argument, if the US’s intentions are so dimplomatic why aren’t they doing something?
Lunacy is wieghing 2 SOLDIERS even, on a scale with a contries entire economy and more important thousands of civilian lives includeing vacationing residence of Canada.
Ignorance is name calling and getting “pissed off” over a dislike for someone’s opinion. Instead of provideing them with relivent factual information too discredit or at least show the motives for your belief.
I invite people too read a blog of a young man who was actually there visiting and got stuck in the crisis, to understand what exactly was going on from a 1st hand, private (less Biased) account.
http://karimhamasni.blogspot.com/
please read it from the begining too end.
50 billion is alot more then 87 million
There should be no dual citizenship.
Dual citizenship is another way of saying divided loyalities. I suspect that a large number of these people got into Canada in the first place by means of a very loose refugee system.
Way to go Garth!
sorry 5 Billion, not 50
“There should be no dual citizenship.
Dual citizenship is another way of saying divided loyalities. I suspect that a large number of these people got into Canada in the first place by means of a very loose refugee system.”
Hate to say it Paul, but it’s not that simple. I have a dual citizenship (Canada & USA) but it is mainly because, a) I have family from Canada and family from the USA and b) as a performing artist it is very difficult to work in the USA even on contract as a non-citizen.
Maybe having two Western citizenships it is easier for me to claim that my loyalties are not divided. But then again, I’m not claiming refugee status from the USA.
Dave: I can assure you that not all Lebanese people are named Muhammed. Unfortunately, the media seemed to focus only on women wearing head coverings when they photographed evacuees. Lebanon is a country comprising many religions. I, for example, am Christian and I am of pure Lebanese descent. One of my great-grandfathers was actually a Greek Orthodox priest in the old country. Your argument is silly – Garth is not being racist or xenophobic.
I am certain that many of these so-called citizens took advantage of our generosity.
Dinesh – thank you for your input. As a Lebanese-Canadian, I agree with what you say.
Judy Рas usual, you did not disappoint. We can always count on you to wax pithy, clich̩ and moronic.
Garth
You pose a number of questions, here, that I agree should be asked. Here are my opinions.
>Do we give out these citizenships far too easily to way too many people?
Quite likely, yes.
>Do we have a responsibility to rescue anyone with a maple leaf passport, even if they have moved out of Canada and will never return?
Yes
>Should Canadian citizenship expire after a certain period of time of non-residency here?
No, but see the answer to the next question, as we should keep taxing them.
>Should people with valid Canadian citizenship who have moved back to their homelands continue to pay tax here, if they expect our protection?
Yes, although we could consider credits for tax paid in other qualifying jurisdictions as the US does.
>Should it take more than three winters in this place to get the same rights and privileges as people born here, or who have invested decades of their lives in this country?
Once a person is granted Canadian citizenship, they should have all the rights and privileges (and responsibilities) as people born here. We could consider extending the time period, but then would we lose talented applicants (doctors, researchers) to other countries.
In addition, other questions could be asked or considered. Should we require new citizens to renounce their citizenship in other countries? Should we require citizens who wish to accept citizenship in other countries to renounce their Canadian citizenship?
Answers of yes to these questions would mostly end the issues of dual citizenship.
Hi Garth
For the first time in my 62 years in this body, I’m really seeing
politics in action, and not as the self serving press corps want me to
see and believe?? “really”. Whether I agree with you or not, is not the
issue. It’s the fact you are succeeding in making the governing of our
country more transparent. It is refreshing and I suspect we will see
more MP’s using your techniques, especially those in small and far
ranging communities.
Actually it’s surprising how much we do agree on, especially with me
living in ” Hockeyville ” ie Salmon River NS.
Keep those bottle asses and pretty faces on their toes and as Red Green
says ” We’re rooting for you” and ” Keep your stick on the ice”
All the best
Paul
Dear Mr. Turner
Thank you for raising the issue of the cost of evacuating Canadians
from Lebanon. I feel the government did the right thing in the
circumstances. But I am wondering if our government does the same thing for
Canadians anywhere in the world in similar circumstances, that is, danger
from war or civil revolt. If so, this could be very expensive. As it is,
already. If not, what would be the rationale?
I certainly believe that any Canadian who returns to Lebanon now does
so on his or her own ticket.And if fighting breaks out again that our
government does not cover the cost of bringing Canadians back to Canada.Our
government would no longer have any moral reason to cover the costs
again.And our government should make a statement to Canadians making this
very clear.
Thank you for your time.
Yours truly,
David L.
Sudbury, Ontario
Hi Mr. Turner,
I’ll keep it short and sweet…you’re a busy man.
I’m proud to have you as my voice in Ottawa. I recently obtained a party membership when the nomination threat arose.
Michael
Milton
“We need to keep as many of as you call them “Whites†in this country as possible because they seem to be the only people who continually serve in our military, look at the casualty rate in Afganastan if my memory is correct only 1 has been a visable minority the rest in your word would be considerred Whites.
Oscar maybe it’s time certain minority groups step up to the plate and give something back to Canada by joining her Military.”
The same could be said for ‘other groups’ in this country. Seems to me all the soldiers serving and subsequently being injured and killed so far are from the West or the Maritimes, and some from Ontario.
Bottom line is, someone in Ottawa did not have the backbone to ask the Lebanese/Canadians to sign an open promissory note covering evacuation expenses “before” boarding the ship. Now its too late. Move on.
Mr Turner,
It is with dismay that I read your comments on http://www.ctv.ca with regards to the cost of the Lebanese evacuation and you attitudes toward Canadian citizenship. It is clear that you have an attitude of citizenship of convenience.
I do not usually write to members of parliament, but am, at this point, fed up, with a very disturbing trend toward changing concepts of Canadian citizenship – something everyone in this country, and out of the country, hold dear to their hearts.
I was born in Canada and was granted Italian citizenship a few years ago as well because of my heritage. At no time was I ever a resident of Italy, nor paid any taxes…yet I was welcomed as a citizen of that country due to the history of my family and never questioned as to whether I intended to pay taxes to Italy, if I would ever live there, if I would ever directly ‘contribute’. I am able to vote in Italian elections and am able to work there as well as other European Countries. My citizenship will not ever ‘expire’ and I am secure in that knowledge. As you know, Italy evacuated Lebanese Italian families during the crisis as well as France. I have spent the last 6 months in Europe and at no time have I heard any comments from any representatives of neither those countries nor any others express distasteful comments such as yours. Do you not care for Canadian citizens, your people? Do you have a price in mind for your fellow citizens? I pay a considerable sum each year to the Canadian government and the costs incurred to evacuate our fellow citizens does not disturb me.
As I mentioned, I was born in Canada, hold my Canadian citizenship dearly and love ‘my’ country dearly. My parents were immigrants to Canada and worked very hard all of their lives, paid their taxes and contributed greatly. They now spend part of the year in Italy, reaping some rewards of their work. Your attitude and those in government like you are an insult to people like them who hold Canadian citizenship. I caution you to remember that you represent ‘all’ Canadians, including those who are not presently physically today in your riding and you are taking your position for granted. How easy it is to stir up local resentment with comments such as yours and how irresponsible.
Your views frighten me for the future of our country, what a small vision of what it means to be a Canadian you are conveying. Would you have the same comments for the many Canadians who have retired to a warmer climate…Florida or Mexico? And when disaster strikes there will you balk at somes cost of returning your fellow citizens? Or is it simply convenient in these days to have view such as yours- since this is another ‘type’ of Canadian living in a Middle Eastern country at a time of crisis?
Your view is short term and I am sorry to say narrow minded. I urge you to honestly and personally reflect on what you are proposing. Many Lebanese Canadians work very hard in Canada at jobs which you would not envy. Yes they may return to contribute to Lebanon, but this takes nothing away from our country and yes they deserve to be evacuated should disaster strike…..they paid their taxes while working in Canada and will do so again if and when the return. What you are proposing will result in nothing less than 2nd class citizenship….being Canadian means more than simply physically being in the country, and more than how much in taxes one pays. You know it is not so very easy to become a Canadian citizen nor to simply ‘not pay taxes’ should one leave despite the information you are handing out by insinuation to the press.
Yes it cost money to evacuate those Canadians; at that time did you know how long this crisis would last? Are you seriously suggesting you would leave your fellow citizens there? Very easy to criticise in hindsight and cruel considering the circumstances. I remind you, fellow Canadian citizens died during this crisis.
I was proud of Canada when I heard that they were evacuating citizens, my pride was tempered as I heard how the evacuation was initially going….yet I maintain we are our brother’s keeper, and yes, sometimes this costs money. Better spent saving lives then some of the wasted efforts tax money has been squandered on back here at home. It matters little of some of our citizens (yes even 7000) go back to help rebuild a torn country for this yet another way our citizens – yes – Canadians – will contribute to areas in need outside of our country. Do you know the particular circumstances of each of those people returning to Lebanon?
By the way, many many many people I know are also very discouraged by the expression of your attitude and similar attitudes as yours — when reading comments such as yours one has to wonder if we wish to have a Conservative government representing us since you do not seem to be clear who ‘your people’ really are. I encourage you to perhaps travel outside of the country if you have not done so recently, and find out how loyal Canadians outside of the country are… I think you may change your perspective.
I urge you to reconsider your views and very much urge you to move to higher ground morally when considering what it means to be a Canadian citizen.
Being a Canadian citizen is not something that ‘expires’ nor should it, ever…shame on you Mr Turner for proposing such a concept.
Best Regards
Anna
Kingston Ontario
I am an immigrant now a Canadian citizen and raised as a Muslim but I have not been practicing/believing for over 20 years. I fully support Mr Turner’s position. If you choose Canada as your new home, then make it a full choice. There should be NO dual citizenship. If you want the benefits of being a Canadian then you pay for it by your taxes whether you live in or out of the country. If for some silly reason Canadian politicans decide to continue with allowing dual citizenship then if the “Canadian Citizen” returns to their home country or travels with their home passpost then they are no longer a Canadian citizen as they have declared themselves as a citizen of their home country. They are no longer entitled to the benefits of Canada. I would love to see the dual citizenship removed and all Canadians pay taxes – no matter where they live.
Good gawd, when did we let the bean counters take over our government?
Anyway, this is yet another example of the hypocrisy that festers within the ranks of conservatives. One the one hand it’s an outrage that we spent $85 million to help people get out of harm’s way in Lebanon yet at the same time it’s imperative that we spend hundreds of millions every year to blow up a part of Afghanistan in order to help the people there.
Anna – your words are pleasing to the eyes and, as the grandchild of immigrants, I can appreciate what you say and feel. But, please, do not use phrases like “something everyone in this country, and out of the country, hold dear to their hearts”. How do you know what “everyone” in the country feels? Usually, it is politicians who speak of “what Canadians want” or “Canadian values” when they have not a clue.
And, please do not equate wanting change to low moral ground. It is not up to you to judge Garth’s moral standing any more than it is for me to judge your moral standing for your stance.
It’s about time the Immigrant policy is changed. 85 million dollars swindled from our Country is a problem …
Just wait 10-20 years from now when the boomers have retired en masse and “citizens of convenience” come to Canada to retire. The medical system is already the largest single cost facing the provinces, and since the vast majority of health costs occur in the last 5 years of a person’s life…well you do the math. Something better change or it will be an economic disaster. Expecting Canadian citizens living abroad to pay some taxes is neither racist (what a stupid comment) or surrendering to the “bean counters”, it’s called responsible government and planning for the future. Most of us save for the future (or at least worry about it), and it’s a wonderful change to see a government that can look past the next election. Good luck, Garth!
I am really angry about the fact that we paid to rescue these people from lebanon and now most of them have returned home. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t care that they went back there, I just don’t think we should have paid to rescue them. I think every last one of them should have to re-pay the cost of their evacuation…..Why should we be on the hook??? Also, Canadian Citizenship should expire after a certain amount of time away from the country. I will GUARANTEE you that EVERY single one of those people that are living in lebanon, holding Canadian citizenship will come back to Canada once they retire and live off our Pension plan and take advantage of our free health care…..
Judy, I don’t know the proportion of rich/poor, but one thing that came to mind is that military service is generally done by younger people, and gifts from parents are not registered as income, so the son of super rich parents would likely just be listed as having an income equal to the others, even though he might have a trust fund and a rich family to fall back on.
Robert – It’s not bean counters, if the bean counters had been taken over you’d have seen more debt repayment than happened under the liberals, not less
Mark P – Good point, if we are only concerned with the costs of evacuation, then it is probably best to divorce that “right” from the holding of citizenship, that way we can still allow dual citizens the other benefits (authorized to work in the country, etc) without causing problems to the finances.
My 2 cents worth…..I think dual citizenship should continue but with some restrictions placed upon it such as a time limit perhaps (i.e. reside outside of country for more than 5 years, lose citizenship) or some type of tax imposition as a detterent? I keep thinking about the large number (I read somewhere possibly as many as 500,000) of Asian folks who became dual citizens when Hong Kong was going back to China…if they get into some “difficulties” we will also have to “rescue” many of them, imagine that cost! Where/when does our responsibility end?
I, too, think we are “too nice for our own good” sometimes and our kindness gets taken advantage of, we need to get a little tougher with our criteria for immigration, citizenship, and refugees.
Chris, I can supply all kinds of links to “prove” what I stated but I have learned from experience in debating “lefties” on the internet that it won’t make any difference and you will continue to believe what you believe regardless of the facts that I put forward. Not to mention the fact that it would be totally off-topic here (and I apologize to Garth for starting this off-topic debate on this thread) and we debated the Isreal/Hez war “to death” on this blog weeks ago!!
Garth…like I said..judging by the quality and quantity of these responses, this issue represents by far your finest hour (opinion) to date…….
‘Garth…like I said..’
Well if you said it once already, why are you saying it again
I find it interesting that if I call the ambulance to go to emergency and it is determined later that I did not need the ambulance, I get sent a bill for the ride.
If I live in Lebanon and want a ride out of there I get it for free and then I get to complain when there is no AC on the ship.
I think citizenship should require basic residency standard. Why would someone want to have citizenship in Canada and not live there? For the “get out of jail free” card of course.
Right on Garth!
I think anyone who went back should do the right thing and send a check to the Government of Canada…now please.
Thank you for raising the red flag about the problem of “Canadianâ€-Lebanese who have returned home – home being Lebanon. On the West Coast, Canadians of convenience are usually residents of Hong Kong, Taiwan or China who came here in the hysterical run-up to the 1997 return of Hong Kong to China. For many, it was to provide a bolt-hole for their sons, who could study, work and live here free from compulsory military service. The parents are referred to as “astronauts†who visit to check up on the kids and the house, review their investments, and then head back to their place of origin where they are making too much money to leave. They boast that only a fraction of what they make overseas is reported to their government of origin and you can bet virtually none of it is being reported here in Canada. In fact, many of their dependents drive up to the tax-prep place in BMWs, making sure they file for the GST and child-care benefits that were designed for those truly in need.
A Canadian is someone whose allegiance is to this nation, and its growth. There must be limits to our tolerance and willingness to accept abuse at the hands and lips of those who take advantage of our open-heartedness. Revoking citizenship of long-term non-taxpaying non-residents after a specific period of time seems a logical step.
Heather J.
Garth
Well I guess you’ll be in trouble again. Good going.
I’ve not read all the comments on your site; I have to make a living. I’m
in agreement with you and many of the readers.
Comments from opposition members and your ministers have bugged me. They
claim all Canadians are equal, we have no second class Canadian citizens.
Well if I have only a Canadian passport I am not equal to someone who has
dual citizenship and carry two passports. In effect, I am a second class
Canadian because I only have the advantage of a Canadian passport. Forget
the fact that my ancestors settled in Peterborough Ontario in 1814!
As for the cost, my wife and I are having trouble spending close to
$1,000.00 for a short vacation in Algonquin Park. I wouldn’t mind 7 grand
for a vacation. Lets not forget the costs of looking after many of these
part time Canadians while they are in Canada.
Larry M.
Toronto
Mr Turner,
I live in Milton and heard you on CFRB today talking about having a debate on “what a Canadian is”. I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you that we need to take a look at this on a go forward basis. We can not change the rules from the past, but can set new rules for the future.
Chris
http://www.conservativejoe.com/arc/arc017.php#headline427
Well said. You have my support. It is nice to see someone whose principles exceed their desires.
John Lawrence, editor
http://www.conservativejoe.com
Garth: Keep it simple. Bill those “fair weather” Canadians for the free ride…AND the sandwiches. It was an act of simple humanitarianism to bring those hyphenated citizens here. If they insist on going back, make note of who they are and tell them: They owe us the cost of the trip: 85,000,000 / 12,000 =7,083.00. Next time, they should book thru Thomas Cook. MUCH cheaper, and I’m sure the AC works, too. If any of them refuse to pay, tell them the next ride is paid in advance, or they stay home.
The cost aside, having those people bitch and moan about the inconvenience of having to flee their homes, take a ship to Canada, and wait a little while for welfare and medical coverage, is a blatant insult to the country who took them in. Fly them back, hand them a parachute, and bid them Bon Voyage. Oh, yes, the sandwich is included.
Your a great man to talk openly about this. I hope that you will do the best you can to stop this semi-immigration non-sense.
I’m by far not the only who is fed up with the Immigration policy.
It’s time for a change, continue the good work by telling us these issues.
Derek and many other fellow Canadians who supporte the conservative party.
Mr. Turner
I caught the end of your time with the Motts’ on CFRB today. Even though I missed the program, the gist of it was clear to me. More abuse of Canada’s Immigration and Citizenship system and the generosity of Canadian taxpayers!
I am a retired Canada Immigration Officer from Pearson Int’l. Airport. I “retired” early because I just could no longer stomach what I was dealing with on a daily basis. I vowed that when I retired, I would write a book but I can’t even bring myself to doing that because just remembering causes my blood to boil and it is just not worth the stress as it would not change a thing.
I wonder how many of the so called “Canadian Citizens” now living in Lebanon originally entered Canada illegally as “refugee” claimants? I would bet my life savings that many of them obtained their Landed Immigrant status after having been granted refugee status and then promptly applied for Citizenship – and what a convenience it turned out to be! A free trip! This, after having sworn to our inane and gullible refugee board members that they had to flee for their lives and if they ever returned to their country of nationality, they would be killed. I am not saying that this was the case in all the Lebanese Canadians that were “saved” now by our government as I am sure most of them consider themselves Canadian and are grateful to be so. But to me even one case of abuse is too many.
Just as a further example of how Canadian Citizenship is considered a joke, I would like to relate one of thousands of cases of deceit and abuse which I was forced to tolerate while working at the airport. This one will stay with me until I die:
On a Thursday night, I was dealing with a Chinese woman who had arrived on a flight from Hong Kong and who had been Landed three years prior. She claimed she was a “returning resident”. She had no documentation whatsoever, to prove to me that she had been away for less than six months. The only stamps in her passport were the ones when she was Landed in Canada three years prior, and the one re-entering Hong Kong two weeks later. She did not have her ticket of when she left Canada. I suspected that originally she came to Canada only for the purpose of getting her Landed Immigrant documents signed and then returned to Hong Kong two weeks later. Against my better judgement, I adjourned the interview to the following Monday when I would be on duty again. This, to give her time to perhaps find some kind of documentation at the home she claimed to have in Canada to prove to me that she had in fact established a residence in Canada and had not abandoned it by being away more than six months (the adjournment process was quite procedural). I retained her passport and instructed her to return on the Monday morning with documentation. She readily agreed and stated she would bring something. When I arrived at work at 6:00 a.m. on the Monday, a fax addressed to me had arrived. The fax was from an Immigration lawyer requesting that I return his client’s Hong Kong passport and Landed Immigrant document as she was now a Canadian Citizen! She had gone for her Citizenship swearing on the Friday. The joke was on me and I said as much to the lawyer. Of course he was non committal about his client’s absence from Canada and his smugness was not lost. I reported the facts to the Citizenship office but I have no doubt this deceitful woman is enjoying all the benefits Canadian Citizenship confers – whether she lives here or not.
I have always welcomed with open arms and a warm heart those who applied to come to Canada in the proper manner. It was my genuine pleasure to process their Immigration documents and grant them Landed Immigrant status. Many times my eyes would fill with tears seeing how happy the newcomers were at finally arriving here after years of waiting – especially seeing the excitement in the children’s faces. I would often joke with the newcomers congratulating them and telling them they were now officially Canadian taxpayers – and they would laugh also saying they would be happy to pay taxes.
It’s too bad that CTV’s Bob Fife had to be so clandestine about what he knew and the person who provided him with the information probably did so at his/her own peril and risk losing his/her job. It’s too bad that employees in the government are not permitted to speak out about what really goes on. It’s too bad there are so many in the higher bureaucracy afraid of losing their cushy positions and choose to ignore the reality of our disgraceful Immigration and Citizenship systems.
To answer one of your questions – YES – we do give out Canadian Citizenship far too easily and we allow people to retain it to easily. It has to change and I encourage you to pursue the changes Canada so desperately needs.
Joe, Mississauga
Mr. Turner,
85 Million dollars!
I understand that the PM has excused this cost to those who were evacuated from Lebanon.
I DO NOT APPROVE – I do not feel this should have been a cost absorbed with MY tax dollars.
Of course there should have been an evacuation however, once safe those who benefited should have been required to re-imburse the Canadian taxpayer.
85 MILLION DOLLARS – Mr. Turner, that is a lot of money.
Something needs to be done about this. MR. Harper, grow some…you know what’s and get us our tax dollars back!!!
I do not think any Canadian tax payer should accept this.
Those that returned and contribute nothing to Canada are a disgrace.
Garth, you are the last person I would consider racist. Don’t let those accusations get to you, it’s a method people who are desperate use to try and end the debate.
I fully agree we need to change the rules for citizenship and maybe eliminate dual citizenship all together. One thing is for certain. It is fundamentally unfair to grant citizenship to refugees merely because they are refugees. That is a slap in the face to all the legitimate immigrants who apply legally and go through the full process. This essentially makes legitimate immigrants second class citizens (or second class citizens in waiting, whatever. It is still a second class.) I believe this is fundamentally un-Canadian and also just plain unfair. It is also unfair that people who don’t live in Canada and don’t pay taxes get rescued on our dime. Yes they had to be rescued, but they shouldn’t be able to call themselves Canadian citizens if they don’t pay taxes like the rest of us. Your idea for an “expiry date” is also very good. The only problem is, what about people who live in other countries but are single citizenship Canadians? If their citizenship expired they would be without citizenship of any country. Still, if this technicality can be fixed, it’s a great idea. Once again, the most important thing is NO AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP FOR REFUGEES! they can apply and wait like everyone else. As refugees they are safe in Canada, so it’s not as if they are being forced to go back to their own country.
If you want to toughen the requirements to gain citizenship, that’s fine. Longer stays in Canada, probationary citizenship, it doesn’t matter.
But once they become citizens, they are full citizens, with every right and privledge as everyone else.
No second class citizens in Canada. Especially no legally-determined second class citizens in Canada.
Hi Garth,
On the right side of the issue as usual.
Time to simplify the process, for every person who holds a Canada Citizenship and lives in a foreign country they must pay some amount ($300 to $500 and half that amount for each child under 18) each year.
No tax forms to fill out, just go to your local embassy every year and make your payment to keep your passports valid.
Think of it as a type of insurance premium, you have the safety of getting back to Canada, and the Government will have the funds on hand to extract you.
Float this trial balloon by Steve and see what he thinks.
Keep practicing your french, the Conservative leadership race is closer than most people think.
All the best.
Dear Garth
It is reported in the media today that the cost to Canadian taxpayers to
evacuate Canadian citizens from Lebanon during the recent hostilities in
that country. It is also reported that more than half of the evacuees have
returned to Lebanon since the cease fire.
Most of these people are assumed to be dual citizens whose permanent
residence is not in Canada and who do not pay Canadian taxes.
The law should be changed as soon as possible to prevent our hard earned tax
dollars being used by ” citizens of convenience “, regardless of what other
country they hold citizenship in. If they are not residents of Canada and do
not pay Canadian taxes they should not be afforded the benefits Canadian
citizenship provides.
In the meantime, I expect to see the Harper government present a bill, with
payment due immediately, to each and every one of the persons who have so
callously taken advantage of the good nature and humanitarian feelings of
the Canadian people. Failure to pay the bill in full should result in their
Canadian citizenship being revoked by the end of this calendar year so that
we do not get taken to the cleaners again the next time hostilities break
out in some part of the world.
Larry M. I being a 5th generation Canadian am also a second class citzen. I can only get one passport. I am fed up with all these so called Canadians who wave their passport only when their in trouble after returning to their orginal homelands & paying no tax’s to this Country. Garth clean up this mess.
One of the arguments in favour of evacuating the Lebanese-Canadians from south Lebanon was that the area had been fairly peaceful for several years and so there was no reason to believe there was any danger. The same argument cannot now be made so those Lebanese-Canadians who deliberately choose to exist in a dangerous environment should be expected to deal with the consequences. Canada has saved their lives once; now we have every right to expect that they’ll take responsibilty for the decision to return again to a dangerous situation.
What is a life worth to you Garth?
$85 million thats what, less than three dollars from every man, woman and child living in Canada?
Three dollars to save thousands of lives?
As far as I’m concerned thats money well spent…but maybe that’s just me.
Luke,
your statement “If you want to toughen the requirements to gain citizenship, that’s fine. Longer stays in Canada, probationary citizenship, it doesn’t matter.
But once they become citizens, they are full citizens, with every right and privledge as everyone else.
No second class citizens in Canada. Especially no legally-determined second class citizens in Canada. ”
Logically, for a Canadian citizen to be EQUAL to another Canadian citizen, one can ONLY hold 1(ONE) citizenship.
So these duals should choose which country comes to bail them out in times of crisis, and then revoke one.
And another quick consideration – Arar, the Canadian-Syrian, who endured torture by his motherland (Syria) may not have had to go through his torture, if he only had one citizenship – for he would have been deported back to Canada from JFK.
Something to think about for those duals.
Wow… what an interesting and thought provoking discussion stream! Thanks for providing a forum for your constituents, Garth.
On another note, it seems that whenever you are in the media “dog house” my husband and I giggle and proclaim “GO GARTH, GO”! And you are definitely right on the money this time. Please don’t ever become part of the status quo and keep asking the tough questions!
The best way I can think of to put it, is being Canadian is like being a part of this exclusive club. Only between 30 and 35 million people belong to it, and the membership is your birth certificate (if you’re born here), or citizenship card (if you’re not), and your Canadian passport.
Shouldn’t we have to pay a membership fee- a flat $50 bucks a year to renew the passport to be a part of that club?
We could have that fifty go to a fund to offset the cost of any future evacuations.
And Christine, you’re not the only one that does that. Yesterday when Garth was on CFRB, I kept repeating: “Go Garth.”
-Laura
Garth
Your fixation on the issue of Lebanese Canadian evacuees raises serious questions about you very integrity, and ultimately your suitability to represent the diverse communities that make up Halton.
Your materialistic treatment of this tragic situation and lack of empathy and sympathy to your fellow Canadians who suffered the wrath of the Israeli offensive on Lebanon that left 1,250 people dead, 7,500 injured, and close to one million displaced makes me wonder about your very character. Are you not aware, Garth, that six Canadian kids and their parents perished while vacationing in the Lebanese town of Aytheroun? This includes boys and girls born and raised in Canada who did not -and will never be able to- make it back to Canada.
Your mistreatment of this humanitarian issue and approaching it only from a Dollars-and-Cents angle speaks volume about your human nature, or possibly the lack of thereof.
Many Canadian Lebanese who were evacuated by our government have indicated to me that, if requested by the government, they will gladly pay their share for the cost of evacuation. The majority of the evacuees I have spoken with are thankful to their Canadian brothers and sisters for supporting them when they were in need, and for also putting enormous pressure on your conservative government to move ahead with evacuation activities after the “measured response†Fiasco of your boss.
Garth – I truly feel pity for you ignorance and especially your inability to get beyond the financially driven mind of yours at times when Canada needs Parliamentarians of a high moral values; essentially, qualities that you do not understand. Please go back to your financial report desk at CTV and spare us from the wrath of your ignorance.
85 Millions would have served Canadians well. I’m so pissed that so called ‘Canadians’ who contribute nothing to the welfare of this great nation are leaching our system. I say NO to dual-citizenship….PERIOD. Membership has its privelege, and in the case of many, they haven’t been paying their dues.
To Joe the retired Immigration officer. I so easily relate to your comments. I too could relate abuses after abuses after abuses of our refugee system, citizenship system and immigration system. The entire system is very very sick. We had a saying in the criminal enforcement area, we used to regularily say “Canada is for sale”. The average Canadian has no idea whatsoever or they would go ballistic. OK, gotta go, there’s goes my blood pressure.
There is a concept of ‘residency’ already in Canada. If you are Canadian but do not reside in Canada, you do not have access to the same services as residents. Even when you move back to Canada, it takes a while before you do.
This applies to education, medicare etc…
I don’t see why it is so complicated to just charge non-residents a fee for their rescue.
All these people upset about Canadian citizens not living in Canada are just plain dumb. It’s your residency that determines wether you get access to services or not. If the CPC decided to give access to free services to non-residents, then that was their decision, not that of the poor people who got caught in a war zone. So stop whining about it.
Ali,
Oh my have you ever got things mixed up. Sorry, but I am very humanitarian. However, I do not like being taken advantage of…which is exactly what happened here.
Why not read 99% of the posts on this topic. Most canadians are with Garth on this one. Perhaps you might want to think a little about what happened. I am sure with a little inspection, you would figure it all out.
Good luck
Garth, you are so right with this one ! I’m glad to see a MP abording this issue.
I also support Independent MP Andre Arthur from QC who said that lebanese are only using their canadian passeport to come skiing in the Winter and to uses our free healthcare system.
If they don’t want to pay tax in Canada, then they should not be able to use the canadian passeport and all the benefits that comes with it.
Isnt it cheaper that they did go back. Hopefully paying for it themselves? What would the burden on the taxpayer be inorder to resettle 7000 new entrants? As I see it Canada made an act of Charity in a humanitarian crisis. They did not plan for the war and would have probably never returned. When the crisis passed those without any bond to Canada went back at their own expense. I sure hope to God my tax dollars did not pay for their return ticket too.
Ali,
You speak about wrath of Israel?
You have not yet an idea what real wrath is. Israel have not yet used tiny fraction of its power. Apparently, You and people of your faith are mad.
But we, who in your eyes are “infidel dogsâ€, we are not yet mad at crimes of Islam. But what you, and alike gonna do when we are mad? What stone you will be hiding behind?
Shall your non-prophet help you?
Alex Crow
Simple solutions:
-No dual citizenship allowed
- People pay for their evacuation. Government or NGO can help in arrangement of it though.
- Why did it cost $7000 per person? It seems like transportation companies overcharged and benefitted the most. It only costs $ 3000 max. on a chartered flights.
Alex Crow
I will dignify your comment with an answer, nevertheless.
Why would you put words I never said in my mouth? Do you know who I am? Do you have any idea about my position vis-a-vis using religious fervor to advance one’s agenda?
I really feel sorry for you… But hey, you may not have the courage to think and challenge others you don’t agree with their opinions or logic. What is the best way to score a point: Put words –stupid words– in their mouth, and be happy for you scored big!
BTW, I am open to any serious discussion with you as long as you promise to put your preconceived notions about me on the side, and get to know the true me!!!
Ali.
This entire situation would never have happened if Canada did not permit refugees to become citizens. Plain and simple. Canada is the ONLY country in the world to do so. Canada must reclaim the absolute right to determine who becomes citizens through our immigration system. Refugees do not come to Canada via our immigration system, they are not vetted through our immigration system to determine their eligibility to immigrate here, yet once they set a single foot on our shores they are granted the same rights as legitimate landed immigrants, with citizenship available after 3 years. Shelter and protection for as long as legitimately needed yes. Once conditions improve in their homeland send them back to help rebuild, as all the Lebanese refugees (now also Canadian citizens did, only they went back on their own because they never wanted to live here anyway, the citizenship was just something too good to turn down. Canadian citizenship for refugees, NEVER. Wake up Canada. Demand our government take back Canbada’s right to choose who becomes Canadian, not the other way around. Write your MP’s.
May misfortune never befall you, lest someone treats you as you would treat others, pal. — Garth
“Once again, the most important thing is NO AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP FOR REFUGEES! they can apply and wait like everyone else”.
I’m sorry Alissa, but you’re wrong. The most important thing is NO CITIZENSHIP for refugees. They already apply and wait just like landed immigrants. The waiting period is 3 years for both categories. The big difference between the two as I have already said is that Canada get to chose who is granted landed immigrant status and has therefore met Canada’s criteria for becoming a potential future citizen. By our current provisions of ever offereing citizenship to refugees, Canada relinquishes any and all control over who becomes a citizen via the refugee process. Canada is the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that ever grants citizenship to refugees. Gee, does anybody think the rest of the world might have valid reasons for not doing so? Think about our current policy on refugees and citizenship. There is absolutely NO logical reason to ever grant citizenship to refugees period. Grant them a safe haven, take care of their needs, but when conditions improve in their homeland permitting them to return safely, then back they go to help rebuild and improve their country. If conditions never improve permitting their return, they are welcome to remain the rest of their lives in Canada, but NEVER as citizens. Again, Canada must retain the right to choose who immigrates here as a potential citizen, not the other way around.