Is it an expression of patriotism, or just self-serving yellow journalism?
Media outlets such as the Toronto Sun and Ottawa’s CFRA have been jumping on the bandwagon of the Canadian Forces in the last two weeks, publicizing “Red Rallies†in Ottawa and Toronto.
I decided to ask one of the key organizers of the giant rally on Parliament Hill, Steve Madely, morning talk show host in Ottawa, exactly what his true intentions were. Turns out, he’s a patriot.
To watch the video, click here.
26 comments ↓
As I read earlier, what the gentleman in your video is sufficient. Thanks Garth. It’s all about the troops, let us not forget that. See you at the rally tommorow
Steve brings up a good point when he compares the domestic respect and treatment of our soldiers to that of the U.S. Do Canadians know that our soldiers are still treated like heroes in Holland? Even the French seem to treat our troops better than we do.
Did he say “more and more Canadians are beginning to get it”? I certainly do wonder why it is that one is right wing when one thinks that the military may be the best method of ensuring left wing ideology in Afghanistan.
Hey Garth,
did know that three(3) years ago the liberal government signed a deal that would the US Coast Guard to use machine guns on their boats on the Great Lakes?
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1159437777656&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154
Why was there no debate in the House of Commons on this?
Seems to me that there are going to be alot of these gotchas that you guys need to bring to the surface…..
Where the hell was the media on this? Kissing the Liberal behinds?
(From an earlier thread)
I heard Jason Kenney on CTV say that Maher Arar was actually suing us, Canadian taxpayers, for $400 MILLION dollars? Is this true?
Yes, ture [sic], which is why I’d suspect PMSH is not apologizing! — Garth
On principle, there should be no reason for the Government of Canada not to officially apologize for what was done to Mahar Arar. It’s no different than, say, apologies for the wrongfully convicted, or for a Chinese headtax that was instituted by distant governments whose legislators have long since left the land of the living. But it seems the law is getting in the way – that is, its relationship to an apparent $400 million price tag. Apparently, there is some debate whether or not such an apology would have severe financial implications where compensation is concerned:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=726524fb-2a8f-4b06-8a97-a4376e79633c
I don’t know what the actual legal nuances are since this seems to be plumbing uncharted territory. As a consequence, I can’t blame the government for exercising caution and buttoning up for time being. I do suggest that the pending lawsuit is unrealistic – take note of the figures below that list payouts to some of the wrongfully convicted, individuals who spent years in prison (granted, not under the duress of torture, which unquestionably requires supplemental financial accommodation). If Mr. Arar’s lawyers would sharpen their pencils and refine that stratospheric $400 million figure to a more earthbound value, say in the range of $1 to $2 dollars per taxpayer (the difference between retribution and restitution, respectively, it could be funded through a tax surcharge that I would gladly have appended to my income taxes next year in the interest of fairness against such state malfeasance), then I think this could be settled quickly and the Arar family and its future descendants could spend their days convalescing in peace.
David Milgaard for 1969 murder of Gail Miller: $10 million
Thomas Sophonow for 1981 murder of Barbara Stoppel: $2.6 million
James Driskell for 1990 murder of Perry Harder: $20 million (unsettled)
Donald Marshall Jr. for 1971 murder of Sandy Seale: $250 thousand + monthly annuity
Gary Staples for 1969 murder of Gerald Burke: $6.1 million
Jason Dix for 1994 murders of James Deiter and Tim Orydzuk: $15 million
Gregory Parsons for 1994 murder of Catherine Carroll: $650 thousand
Clayton Johnson for 1989 murder of Janice Johnson:$2.5 million
Others (unknown amounts):
Guy Paul Morin for 1992 murder of Christine Jessop
Romeo Phillion for 1972 murder of Leopold Roy
Dube – there is a big distinction between the murder cases you quote and Arar’s case.
Milgaard was a Canadian citizen only. He was tried in Canada, convicted in Canada, and spent his prison time in Canada.
Arar, a dual citizen of Canada and Syria, used his Syrian passport in the USA (shortly after 9/11). Not too smart. He didn’t use his Canadian citizenship. He did not denounce his Syria citizenship. The Canadian officials gave wrong info to the USA. The USA then acted on this info, instead of charging him in the USA, decided to deport him to his native land – Syria. Syria was the one who “tortured” him. Not Canada, not USA, but, his native land Syria.
While Canada certainly played a role in his misfortunes, the REAL culprit is Syria! Canada nor the USA “tortured” him.
Again, these dual citizens use their Canadian citizenship when they get into trouble – and still don’t want to renounce their first (native) citizenship.
To me, while Arar deserves acknowledge of the mistakes done by the Canadian officials and some retribution from Canadians (4 years of lost income), Arar should be focussing his lawsuit against Syria! The 400 MILLION should be coming from Syria, if he so chooses!
Everytime I see him being interviewed, he NEVER says that he demands that the Syria President publicaly apologies to him and his family. Yet, he demands that our Prime Minister apologizes. And why is that?
Catherine: I read that Mr. Arar told the American authorities that if he was to be deported it was to be to Canada, not Syria. And I also read that he was travelling under his Canadian passport.
Mr. Arar was sent to Syria based on false information. The false information came from Canadian authorities bolstered by some unknown info from the Americans (apparently they wont tell us what that info is)
Without this false information Mr. Arar would not have been sent anywhere.
Canadian and American authorities know that Syria tortures.
America even named Syria as one of the “axis of evil” countries.
So, knowing that Mr. Arar carried dual citizenship, wouldnt you think that the humane thing to do would be to deport him to Canada? A country that does not torture suspected terrorists?
And now the American congress has given Mr. Bush the right to torture detainees, deny them due process, and hidden in this new piece of legislation is an immunity from war crimes charges for Mr. Bush and his government. So, now the Americans can seize anyone they believe to be a terrorist, torture them, and not be held accountable in a court of law.
Mr. Harper should put out a travel warning to all Canadians travelling to the U.S. It is now a country that openly condones torture.
I didn’t realize one had a choice of where they are deported.
400 MILLION DOLLARS? Did i read that right? Maybe the guy didn’t deserve what happend to him, but FOUR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS??????
To be honest, I am having a hard time not believing that maybe the RCMP didn’t have it right the first time round. Sounds and looks like this guy is trying to use our own money against us. FOUR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS???????????????????????????????
I say to Mr. Harper, DON’T APOLOGIZE. DON’T EVEN HINT AT AN APOLOGY.
Still can’t believe the number. Bet his lawyers are planning trips to outer space.
To my detrement, I didn’t pay attention to everything said about the man, but I do have a question.
Where was he travelling to and why was he taken into custody in the first place?
Judy,
Re:
“It is now a country that openly condones torture.”
It’s about time! No more Mr. Nice Guy!
At the very beginning, I was horrified by the Maher Arar situation. However, I am no longer convinced that he is as innocent a victim as he claims to be. For a guy who has, for years, wanted to move on with his life, he sure has stalled in this “victim – sue the government” mode. Four hundred million is downright silly and is obviously the result of his and his lawyers’ greed. The man is an opportunist and, quite frankly, I’d love to see him either desist or leave the country.
Better yet – perhaps he and his family can move in with the astonishing Judy (whom, I think, is also writing under the name Frank).
“I say to Mr. Harper, DON’T APOLOGIZE. DON’T EVEN HINT AT AN APOLOGY.”
I’m with you, Pete. And let’s add this: NOT ONE DAMNED DIME!
And back to the original point of this post…
Garth, thank you for the video clip. Our local CHUM Group station is so feminine-touchy-feelie (all womens’ issues all the time, it seems — not that that’s a bad thing, but it’s a little restricted in scope) that I didn’t know a lot about the origins of Canada’s version of Red Friday until I watched this.
I have linked this post with my own most recent post:
http://intothecavern.blogspot.com/2006/09/red-friday.html
So Judy – let me get this straight, Syria regularly tortures its citizens, but, it’s America’s fault?
Arar did use his Syrian passport. If he knew that his mother country is a bastard, then, why did he not renounce his Syrian citizenship when he became a Canadian citizen? I sure would like to know that one. Is Arar suing Syria for the actual “torture”? If not, why not? Why is Arar not going to the UN for this? Something just doesn’t add up – especially in the light that he is suing us, Canadians, for 400 MILLION dollars?
And another BIG question everyone should ask the NDPers, especially Peggy Nash and TJ (Layton): if Canadians do pay Arar 400 MILLION, what Canadian federal programs would they suggest be cut to pay for Arar’s instant riches?
Dube,
Did you ever hear of something called the “Statute of Limitations”? (six years)
It has long since passed for those affected by the head tax. There is a huge difference.
In any case, INMO if and when from a legal perspective, that Mr. Harper is free and if he so chooses, to apologize on behalf of the government of Canada, he should put in the qualifier that he is apologizing on behalf of the government that was in power when this grievous misjustice occured. And it wasn’t the Conservatives. Make it clear that it was the Liberals particularly since it is this bunch of hypocrits that is doing a lot of the chirping about apologies.
I don’t think that Maher Arer is looking to get 400mil from this. If he and his lawyers were smart which they seem to look like so far they want an out of court settlement for mybe 5% of what they seem to be asking for. If this goes the course through the courts Mr Arer will be very old by the time he gets anything. Imagine how long it would take to go through all the courts and then all of the appeals to win this case.
While Mr. Arer made some mistakes if he did in fact use his Syrian passport instead of a Canadian passport I don’t think he deserved to be sent back to his native country and tortured. I don’t believe he was deported from Canada so why would the US not deport him to his place of residency? People who use duel passports must know that the country that they enter on is the country responsible to look after them if they need any political help. That is why Canada did not intervene in the Zarha Kazami (sorry for the spelling) case. That is the Montreal photojournalist who was raped and murdered in an Iranian jail. She entered Iran on her Iranian passport and I don’t think Canada did anything to help for her release. I am sure that Catherine won’t have any compassion for her either though.
I think that Mr. Arer has every right to sue the government and RCMP and CSIS for what he has had to go through by they giving false information and not clear information. He will probably win his case but I doubt it will ever go to court. My thoughts
Catherine: Without the false info from Canadian officials, Mr. Arar would not have been tortured.
He should get all he is suing for.
Four hundred milliion dollars? How ’bout “tendering” military contracts so we don’t get a Haliburton-size final bill.
How “bout getting the United States to pay us the billion dollars owing on the softwood lumber phony duties? That would more than cover it.
The real irony is that it was the Liberals who ran things during the Maher Arar saga and now the Conservatives are being pressured to apologize on behalf of Canada. One wonders when Jean Chretien will accept his share of the blame
Lewis (and John L),
How about taking of those partisan hats, just for a moment, and ask yourself if an apology is the right or wrong thing to do — period? Yes? No? Want to qualify it, add codicils, fine print, and the like, go ahead. Then ask yourself if, by adding those qualifiers, politicizing the apology, you won’t just cast the whole thing as a cheap and insincere act.
Now, I have no idea what you’re driving at with respect to the statute of limitations other than the potential risk for financial liability. That’s why I said I thought it was right for the government to keep buttoned up until after a settlement is agreed upon.
Judy – if you think that $400 MILLION is justifying, then, how about contributing my and my families’ share?
To be perfectly honest – I think Canada’s Chretien government and agencies made some mistakes, ALONG with Arar (who is a dual citizen – Canada and Syria), in a world paradigm shifted post 9/11.
However, Arar, has lost my respect, when he seems to want to milk his problems with his native Syria’s treatment. If he was suing us for 1 or 2 million only, then, I would think that he just retribution for his 4 years of lost employment. Remember – Canada DID NOT do the “torture”. As he is suing us, Canadians, for 400 MILLION, then I suspect he has another agenda. Canada’s government is also accountable to all of us.
BTW: when Arar’s book comes out, I’m sure you will purchase lots of them, which will contribute to his “I’m the only one who has ever suffered”.
John, I agree. Parliament voted unanimously to apologize to Mr. Arar and his family.
And when you assume office you assume the good and the bad. So, officially, it is up to the sitting government to apologize to Mr. Arar.
Unfortunately the lawyers are involved and I believe the current minority government has been advised not to tender an apology as this might insinuate “guilt” and would affect the final cash settlement.
Unfortunately the lawyers are involved and I believe the current minority government has been advised not to tender an apology as this might insinuate “guilt†and would affect the final cash settlement.
Judy, there’s nothing “unfortunate†about this, unless you are referring to the advice from Arar’s lawyers. Perhaps the $400 million is for positioning, a ridiculously high opening bid in a downward-directed bidding cycle. But it’s excessive, to put it mildly, on the scale of a class-action lawsuit, but only for a class of one, and will sour any goodwill and sympathy that Arar has gained for his experience with the state. I don’t want this country to mimic the litigious nonsense that we see south of the border, claims and payouts to the extreme. There’s fair, and then there’s greed, restitution versus retaliation. The figures I listed in my original post for wrongly convicted, some of whom literally spent decades behind bars, are fitting representatives; the trick is to derive a calculus that converts one year of torture into an equivalent in normal time behind bars.
The Government should indeed formally apologize, but it should also indeed wait.
Dube,
Right you are, Mr. Harper should not apologize at this time and nor give a post dated one. In the meantime we will not know his intentions, so what is to be discussed on this supposed issue?
To compare Mr. Arar’s torture to an American suing MacDonald’s because the coffee was too hot is ludicrous.
We can only hope that Mr.Arar’s case is and will be the only one of its kind.
Catherine: I suggest we negate the softwood lumber deal and hold out for the billion dollars America stole. Then we could easily pay Mr. Arar. After all, it was the Americans who initiated his deportation to Syria, a country that practises torture.
And the Americans have the nerve to say they had no expectation that Mr. Arar would be tortured?? Who writes this garbage for these guys?
So Judy – you want to have thousands of people to lose their jobs in our Canadian lumber industry (4.2 Billion is being returned to Canada), so we pay Arar, a Syrian-Canadian, whose native country perpetrated his “torture”, hundreds of millions? Right… Your warped logic doesn’t make sense….
I say pay him 4 years of lost wages plus interest and call it a day. Let him go after his beloved Syria for his “torture”. You know Judy, many, many people have suffered more than Arar for a lot longer than him, and yet they seem to have gotten on with their lives. Seems he’s going after Canada for 400 MILLION – because Canada is much easier in being a smuck.
Catherine: You lack empathy. Can you imagine being targeted by the RCMP for being a terrorist, having that flase info passed on the America, then having America send you to a known torture endorsing country? I would bet that if you or one of your loved ones was in this situation you would be yelling louder than Arar and holding the Canadian government accountable.
Once again , I believe that if the Canadian authorites had not passed false information to the Americans, Mr. Arar would not be in this situation.
And I don’t know why you think America is entitled to a billion dollars they stole from us?
And why is the deal being held up a month? I would say it is because several Canadian companies will not drop their litigation against America.
They think it is a bad deal.
Judy – I have empathy, but, a single man portrays himself as the ONLY one who has suffered and now wants to bleed us, taxpayers, I do have to question his motives to this retribution.
Why is he not going after Syria – his native homeland? They are the ones perpetrated his torture.
BTW. Have a talk with holocaust survivers. Have a talk with the slave labourers in German work camps. They moved on, without any financial retribution.
Judy – are you related to a lawyer? Do you not realize that over the past 5 years, lawyers have made a bundle – and what were their results? Handsome income for themselves. So while 80-90% on the dollar is not the best – it’s a hell of lot better than ZIP! It sort of reminds me of the divorce lawyers – while the husband and wife are bickering, the lawyers are seeing dollar signs in their heads. Do you ever wonder why there are so many lawyers in politics or are connected to politics? They just love to milk us, poor smucks.