When I have a rare moment, I am very entertained by what is being said about me! Some of it is very predicatble, and I surely expect many more attacks to come as the PMO spins this all out.
But that’s the old politics. What I am far more interested in is the new relationship developing between taxpayers, voters and citizens – which can only take place here. It’s what digital democracy is all about, and I said when I stood for election this last time that achieving DD was one of my overarching goals. Anyway, here’s another read, from Deep Jive Interests. — Garth
For the half dozen of you who are NOT Canadian bloggers, you may not be aware that yesterday a member of parliament (congress) up in Canada was booted from his caucus (party) for opinions posted on his blog.
BLOG?!
That’s right. Somewhere between the dangerously unstable nuclear situation in south east Asia, the ongoing quagmire that is the Middle East, and the latest travails of starlet Lindsay Lohan, several major news networks decided that it was major news up here in the snowy wastes on the evening news, making it the leading news piece last night.
I’m not sure if any politician of any political stripe has ever been booted out of his or her party because of opinions stated on their blog; but not being a blog historian of any kind (in fact, I tend to make much of that up as I go along), I’m hardly qualified to speak on that.
What were those opinions? How about referring to Stephen Harper a “Bush Clone†(Stephen Harper is in fact, the Prime Minister (President) of Canada, and the ruling party in Canada is currently the Progressive Conservatives (Republicans) of which both Garth Turner recently was, and Stephen Harper currently is)? And the fairly complimentary way he wrote about the Green Party? (a minor political party devoted to Green issues)
The amazing thing last night as I was watching the news on this issue was how Mr. Turner held a news conference and basically summed up his booting from the party as one of steadfast defiance, and a major strike for electronic media. And that’s not just blogging — but vlogging as well. Or video podcasting. Or GooTubing. Or whatever kids are calling on-line video these days.
And you know what?
Good for him.
65 comments ↓
While I sometimes strive for insight, and at others, commentary, I do try and entertain when I can
Thanks for the kind words Mr. Turner.
And good luck to you!
Cheers
Tony @ dji
Garth – I’ve been reading your blog since the events on Wednesday, and I just wanted to throw my word of support in with the thousands of e-mails and comments you seem to be getting.
In this era when the government is supposedly promoting accountability, something that they actually campaigned on, what can be their excuse for booting out a member of their party, simply for questioning the government’s actions, and for communicating with his constituents? All it is is hypocrisy.
Thank you for standing by your ideals. If more politicians aspired to the kind of integrity I think you try to achieve, Canada would be better for it.
What kind of party promises transparent and accountable government and then proceeds to hand-pick the reporters whose questions they answer, chastises any of their MPs who dare to speak without getting the leader’s almighty say so, and then kicks out an MP for having something as simple as a blog?! I mean, what says “transparency” more than a blog?! If anything they should be encouraging the practice!
If you ask me, you’re better off without the Conservatives. They’ve turned out to be a bunch of low-minded, selfish, hypocrites! If you want to help people and be a good MP, it sounds like the Conservative party is no fit for you, but I guess there are challenges to running as an independent.
I heard about your meeting with Elizabeth May, and if you ask me, I think it’s a good idea. I met her when she was going through the area and she seems like a great person –interested in a heck of a lot more than the environment too! And she actually talks ABOUT the issues and not AROUND them like all the other leaders.
And just think about it, you’d be representing not just the people of Halton, but everyone around the country who voted Green and didn’t get an MP.
I’m sure you’ll make the right decision, but for what it’s worth, I’d vote for you if you were Green!
I would like to say thank you for standing up for your belief. One thing I cannot understand is why and how do the P.C. party and the others have the right to kick a member out of a party. You were elected by the people to be a PC member of parliament. The most they should be able to do is to keep you in the backbench. I would think this should be a constitutional right as you were elected as a PC member. The governments do not like to see another MP cross the floor and join another party but yet they do this without hesitation. You should have the right to go into the PC meeting’s yet as you were elected a PC member by the people, for the people because if it was me in your shoes that is exactly what I would be doing. I would be daring the Prime Minister to have me taken out of the meeting. It has to be left to the people to decide your fate if you run in a election not the party.
I am familiar with your opinions since the days of your business colums at the Toronto Sun.
I do not get involved in politics. If I did I would probably be in jail for assault, though I never have been.
Good show for standing up and not backing down. I really like very much many things that you stand for.
I always vote green for innumeral reasons. I was born and raised in Ontario from British stock. I have witnessed the continued and discusting desicration of this province since I was old enough to understand what is really important, clean air, water, food and compassion especially for animals of all kinds since they have no voice. Funny how money is more important to many. I live on the 4th Line Nassagaweya where I have found several rare species of animals residing on my land. If I sell, because of new and alarming threats re- Pristine Proposal, Trans Canada Energy, and the waste energy proposal, my biggest worry is leaving this special and sensitive place and its creatures behind with possibly no one to watch out for them.
There are two different species on the planet that I associate with in my mind. One is called Man, a primitive creature directly relating to the cave man. These creatures (modern man) are capable of pretty much anything for a dollar and mant other evils. Dont worry I am not a religious nut.
The rest of us, which from what I can see includes you, are human beings, which are sensitive to things around them and understand what is happening. Lets give Al Gore a round of applause please, and you too Garth for standing up. You are a good guy.
Robert
Halton
Mr. Turner:
I have been thinking about this all day. This is in addition to my comments of earlier this morning. I just realized I owe so much to the Conservative Caucus for what they did to you. I haven’t felt this involved in politics since the 60’s and JFK. I really feel once again that ordinary people can make a difference.
I figure you run as an independent or Green Party what ever your best shot is at getting elected.
Your basic campaign slogan is to the effect:
Help me to show that
We care about our country
We’ve had enough and won’t take any more and
We can make a difference
Let us together start changing Canadian politics for the better right now right here
Vote Garth Turner.
How do I get in touch with you campaign manager. I want to help. Let’s kick ass.
You indicate you are considering your future couse of action. There is only one course of action. As indicated in your past statements when an elected member cannot represent the party they were elected to represent (for whatever reason) then his/her resignation is in order and then events proceed from there. It is not your perogative to say who you are going to represent, it is the constituents in your riding.
Dear Mr Turner,
As a constituent of yours — I live in Lowville — I have watched your progress since the last election with interest, and never did work out what you were doing in the Conservative Party. Harper, very clearly, likes and intends to run a one man band, peopled, with a few notable exceptions, with mediocrities, and about the only place that you would seem to fit in with him is fiscally; socially, you seem to fit not at all.
Allow me to give you a bit of advice. You do not need the Conservatives, who seem to be swimming hard against the tide of Canadian public opinion, so cut them loose and wave them goodbye. And then, if you can, have some good talks with Elizabeth May and become the first Green Party MP in Canada. She, I think, will make a good leader of the party, and you, if you will only be willing to become a small team player, are probably ideally suited to be the Deb Grey of the Greens, in particular because of your marketing and PR abilities. And I think you may be surprised by the level of support amongst your constituents, many of whom, like me, would never vote for the Conservative Party.
One suggestion: you are going to need all of your marketing skills in the coming months, so start putting everyone who emails you, whether or not they support you, on an email mailing list. Then email everyone on this list with a weekly letter about your thoughts, the Green Party’s activities. And, when an election is imminent, do this daily.
You may have been a Progressive Conservative, but you are certainly not a Harper Conservative, and other people’s one man bands are clearly not for you. So break the connection and seize the moment. I think you’ll find a lot of people in the riding will be more than happy to have you represent them, but make sure you keep in touch with them and promise them nothing that you cannot deliver on.
Good luck in the coming months, and do let me know if I can be of help in any way.
Richard
Halton
Congratulations!
You are now in a position to rigger a much needed change in Canadian politics, provided you make the right choices…
You’re the politician, but the greatest impact I can imagine for this country would be to have you as it’s first Green MP.
Good luck!
F.
(A discouraged Green who sees hope in you!)
Hey Garth-
Just wanted to touchbase and find out if you have ever caught up with Steve Clift and his organization http://www.dowire.org.
This is a website that connects e-democracy projects and people doing very interesting stuff such as your accessible blog.
I dont think people realize that the Community Access program(CAP)provides people that otherwise wouldnt have internet access the ability to participate in the public debate. It has been a success and the world has noticed.
Although I am busy like most Canadians with the everyday grind of work, in the month of November there is a very important conference in Montreal by the International Association for Public Participation.http://www.iap2.org/
I realize I posted on support for you as a Green but more importantly I am now posting due to your strong emphasis on edemocracy.
Peter
Mr. Turner,
I would like to applaud you for the way you are handling yourself in the face of your colleagues’ actions this week. It’s refreshing to know that there are politicians in the service of our country who understand that you’re representing your constituents, not governing them.
Although I’m not in your riding I feel you are the type of politician who represents me.
I look forward to the outcome of your constituency meetings. In a way I hope they encourage you to join up with the Green Party, if only for the historical significance.
My best wishes in your upcoming endeavours.
Hi, Garth:
It’s quite interesting the variety of views that people are expressing over your “dismissal” from the CPC caucus. It would appear that this is definitely not the old PC Party. Any political party that wants to totally supress open discussion and limit dialogue to destined to become corrupt.
I have always considered myself a red Tory, but with the changes that occurred to the Conservatives, I found myslf attracted to the Green Party.
That being said, this note is not to try to convince you to join the Greens. Rather, since it will likely be less than a year until the next federal election, I would suggest you should sit as an independent, and then choose a party to represent during that next election.
Regardless of what course you choose, I would like to wish you all the best!
Ross,
London, Ont
Keep up the good work.
Maybe you should learn to work with and cooperate with people. I am happy with Harper’s government and my vote for you was in reality for Harper. You always seem to find yourself on the outside looking in. Grow up Garth. The world is not perfect. How sappy it is to watch you grandstanding in your 15 minute spotlight. By the way… Your web blog is nothing more that a place for liberal ass-holes to vent their glee at your fumbling stupid ways.
Very disappointed voter.
Mr. Turner
Thank you – I know this must be a stressful time for you – aggravating and sad as well – but just wanted to add my voice to the many I hope are supporting you. We do need voices like yours to tell the government what Joe Public wants and what we don’t want – unfortunately there is not enough of it! Too many times I shake my head at the state of the nation and the decisions made and think “if this were the States, there would be rioting in the streets” – but here in Canada, everything slides. I am one voice too and try my best to “spread the word” – it is a lonely job. I have followed your career since before you entered politics the first time (and left saying how difficult it was to make change). I am glad to see you had the strength to go back and please – keep fighting the good fight. We need you.
I originally posted this in an earlier link, but the links are coming so fast lately that it’s probably been lost in the backwash. So I repeat it here again, and while I had posted it in response to one of Catherine’s, I don’t single her out here in particular, rather I think it has more widespread applicability from what I’ve been observing. It seems that lots of emotion has supplanted reason. Where once Garth was accepted, he has now become a pariah. Why? Because of a Party reaction rather than because of some personal transformation. From what I’ve seen, Garth has not changed; if the removal from caucus had not taken place, would he still be attacked so widely, or only by those who have consistently done so both before and after (Jerry comes to mind)? It is interesting to note that some, like Lewis, who have questioned in the past why others, like Judy, who are obviously not Conservative supporters, posted at Garth’s site, yet those same posters still find this site to be a useful vehicle for dialogue. Direct contact with elected officials rather than one-way E-mail traffic into a void of non-recognition. It seems that even they find value in the unfiltered message, despite being from a site that is no longer seen as bona fide “Conservativeâ€.
We should expect to see a seat resignation and then a by-election for Halton in the next coming weeks… Right? Then, Halton can vote the next God (the all knowing and singular - no team). OK sarcasm is off….
Catherine,
There’s something inconsistent here. Before Garth’s ouster, you were always cordial and respectful towards him, often engaging in questions to obtain information or opinion. Now this. From what I see, Garth is still the same, and it was not he who bailed on the party – which might give you impetus for the above – rather the other way round. So why the about face, and rather personal at that? Just because a bandwagon of vitriol has formed, it isn’t necessary to jump on it.
As for the need for a by-election, given the circumstances, there should be no expectation of such. If Garth had left, then I would say yes, that would be the right thing to do, but in the case of an ouster, then there is no requirement to do so: that by-election can wait until next Spring’s budget confidence vote and subsequent real-deal election. It seems to me that you might in fact be grateful to have the time to seek out a viable candidate (unless of course you want to go through that “Rondo Thomas-esque†experience yet again with McVety’s boy). And the voter’s of Halton might critically – and negatively – question why it is necessary to have 2 elections in such a short timeframe.
I have always aligned myself on the right of the political spectrum, but have always been uneasy about the current Conservatives. I voted Liberal last election because I know, like and respect my current MP (Bill Graham). I don’t believe that what you have been doing with your blog is revolutionary and should be treated as a new era of politics, but I do commend you for being honest. Unfortunately, it appears honestly and openness has no place in the Conservative Party.
I can empathize with a government that takes over after 13 years in political exile only to run my minority. That must have been Stephen Harper’s worst nightmare. But that is what the voters chose. Belinda Stronach and Scott Brison took a lot of criticism for defecting, but it was clear they did so because of strong clashes with Harper. We now know these clashes are chronic and pervasive.
The Liberals may want you, but as a lifelong aficionado of Canadian politics, you’d hang yourself and would face far more criticism than all the David Emerson’s before you. The Greens have their appeal, but whether the country fully takes them seriously at this point is anyone’s guess. If I were to recommend anything is to stay independent at least for the time being. In a minority parliament, you can continue to be the best MP you can be in that role and still effect change – especially with a number of critical votes to come. Use your strong opinions to influence change that will work to all Canadians’ benefit.
You currently enjoy something most politicians in this country do not – respect. Use it wisely and use it to make this country a better place.
Dear Mr. Right Honourable Mr. Turner
We all knew your a little bit of a maverick and at times the class clown. The world is a changing place for my family, friends and especially my children. I felt the conservatives were doing a good job. I was happy to see on your website that you will be an avocate for middle class people. So many politicians are just talk about specialty groups.
Please don’t be act like Llinda Stronech ( you should here what they say at hairdressers ) or Mr Emerson, and be more honestly. Liberals seem to get all the bums from all over. and they act very rude. I hope I can say without offending you there is lots of party and people against the conservtives. I think it would be ok with us if you helped them, because they’re are not perfect but they seem nice and they seem honest. The lady from the Green Peace seems kind of scary. and.
Please Mr. Turner take your time and suspension and just tell them me and my kids and the rest of the kids around here need you in thje group more than we need your website. some times complaining on the website when you know everyone is trying to make everybody happy all the time. You know that won’t work, so please take your suspension, think more about it and try to find ways to help us all by working together. I know I would nevr talk about my family the way your website talks about your work family.
Thank you in advance for reading my letter and god bless, can I says that?
Hey Garth,
I’m a resident of Halton. I’ve been following the news regarding your dismissal from the Conservative Party. In general, I do support the Conservative Party values over most other parties, and had supported you. I understand why they had to act the way they did. However, I also sympathize with your situation since I consider myself a person of integrity who oftens says things openly and honestly even if it may be wiser not to! This of course can be lethal in politics, but it also can be a strong leadership trait.
There’s rampant speculation that your reasons for becoming the Maverick MP… *smile* may be due to the fact that you were overlooked for a cabinet position, or just a guy seeking more attention. I think it’s more complicated and simpler than that… Regardless, before you decide your future, I thought I’d share my perspective… (for what it’s worth to you!)
Media has reported and you’ve confirmed that you will be listening to the Green Party (among others) to assess the possibility of a future within the party. I’m not a big tree-hugger, or a wacky environmentalist, but I do have a care and concern for our environment. I recall Dr. Suzuki once saying that we have to come to the realization that we are not separate from “The Environment”… rather we ARE “The Environment”. I’m paraphrasing obviouly. But it still resonates with me. We’re not isolated from the natural world around us… despite the fact that our terminology and colloquial language use suggests otherwise.
The Greens were – like many Canadians – my “second choice” party. I actually got really interested and my curiosity was piqued when I heard about Mr. Harris and his blending of conservative economic policy with strong environmental and preventative-health policy ideas. The Greens have evolved from a single-issue party. And that coming of age resonates with me and a lot of my demographic. I’m 28 with a wife and baby on the way (due early November). I’m university-educated, now self-employed and own my home. I try to stay current with political issues just as interchangeably with popular culture. WIth a child on the way, I feel drawn a bit more to education and the environment. Small business, taxation, healthcare, and government spending are also important to me and my family. But in my social circles, it’s remarkable how common the environment becomes a topic of conversation and grave concern. Like yourself, I’m not thrilled with the environmental policy unveiled by our current government. However, I’ll remain open-minded and read more on the topic before forming a strong opinion. I digress…
So what’s my point? It’s this. I (and others) think you should strongly consider joining the Green party. Besides the obvious historic significance, I believe you may bring attention to a neglected facet of government policy – namely the environment. But you’ll also bring legitimacy to a party that has grown and matured to more than just environmental policy. This isn’t a fringe party anymore. And if I’m any indication, Canadians are looking for change and getting their appetitie whetted for some fresh air in Parliament (pun intended). Maybe this was went to be? I can’t see the Greens getting any more than 5-10% of the popular vote without a member in Parliament. You will be able to change the face of Canada’s politics forever. But more than that, the importance of your decision could have the capacity to resonate beyond your career, life as an MP…. it could – just maybe – influence a lot of future government policy… and maybe – just maybe – I’ll feel a bit safer that my future son/daughter won’t be growing up with Asthma or some other respiratory problem… Wishful thinking? Perhaps.
As a Green MP, I (and others I’ve spoken to about this) would support you.
Thanks for your patience and your time reading my email (ie. ramblings).
Cheers,
Andrew
Halton Resident (North Oakville)
PS. Whatever you do, PLEASE don’t join the Liberals! I used to be an ardent supporter, but after the sponsorship scandal and it seems every other scandal since, including the ubiquitous “old boys club” back-end culture, the Liberals hold little integrity and credibility in my books. They got a long way to go to prove to me and fellow Canadians that they are rid of the stinkiest corrupt elements within…. no doubt as the party has failed every opportunity to rework and re-create their party. They’re arrogance astonishes and disillusions me…
There are Blue Tories, and there are Red Tories. Isn’t it about time for socially progressive and economically conservative Green Tories? I think so. Come join the party
http://www.greenparty.ca/
Dan
Surrey, BC
Hello Mr. Turner,
I just wanted to let you know that if parliament had more MP’s like yourself willing to work for their constituencies and speak what they honestly believe, my job as a youth pastor in engaging youth in our society to make it better, would be leaps and bounds easier!
Hello Mr Turner,
i noted on your weblog from July that you told the Arab community to go to
hell because of their criticism of you (& the Conservative party) for
behaving like an outpost of the Israeli Likud Party in Canada…seems what
goes around comes around…cuz you have been told to go to hell by the
Conservative Party!! LOL! Hope that was fun
Khurrum Awan
Garth
I have to say I am disappointed with the recent events. While I certainly applaud your desire and techniques to communicate, getting thrown out of the conservative caucas does not serve your consituents. Maybe it serves you and / or a desire for media attention, but I don’t see how it helps those that elected you, as part of a conservative party, achieve the change in direction, policy and property rights. This action seems to parallel the disaffection you started to show when you were last an MP. I can appreciate that not getting the attention to agenda items important to you can be difficult, if that is in fact the issue. I hope that they are aligned with what we are after. As an independent MP I don’t see how we gain any momemtum on key issues as anything you try to spearhead now will get little attention and progession through the parliamentary process.
I hope you will reconsider your position and seek to rejoin the caucas.
Mike
Halton riding
Garth — if you were any more full of yourself, you’d explode.
BTW Soccr Mom — ‘Right Honourable’ is reserved for the PM.
I may not be in your riding, but it still has to be said. A politician that actually wants to talk to people, and not in that way the liberals like to do, and the conservatives it seems, wherein it’s 95% fluff and 50% stupidity… *finally*! It’s just a shame for doing that, they gave you the boot. But, and I can see you’ve adopted a similar line of thinking, if they don’t like your weblog and what you put there, they can feel free to lower their standards. Which is exactly what it looks like they did. Good going, Garth.
Say, can we borrow you for the Pembroke/Renfrew riding?
Canadianna, Right Honourable is reserved for the PM and former PMs as well. I am sure you know this but soccer Mom may not. Regards
I like the Sound of The Green Tory Party of Canada
Garth should not join the Green Party….
Heck no the Green Party member’s should Join Garth’s NEW National Party of Canada….
The Green Tory Party! Garth Turner, Head Honcho
(to be really radical, the Head Honcho Postion would be a weekly position so that all members of the party would share in the Honours. Some Organizations, perhaps like Outward Bound have a leadership “cylce” that gives all participants a chance to be the leader, so to truly facilitate consenus decision making. So here’s how it works, the party works together and the members take turns being the leader for a week or so..)
Yeah, WAY too radical for Canadian Federal Politics I know!
(Just having a little fun!)
All the best
This is on Page F2 of Today’s Toronto Star:
It is in a word BRILLIANT!!!!
Read on and enjoy!
Harper trying to market alternative universe
How else to explain the Clean Air Act?
Oct. 21, 2006. 01:00 AM
JAMES TRAVERS
Conservatives aren’t fools: They know the Earth only looks flat.
It’s even more certain they are aware other things are not as they appear. Week by week, evidence mounts that Stephen Harper is creating, packaging and marketing an alternative universe.
How else to explain a Clean Air Act that experts all but unanimously agree will only make this country a dirtier part of a dirtier world? Let’s be perfectly clear: Talk of meaningful progress by 2050 is pure delusional fantasy for politicians with four-years-or-less lifecycles and gnat-like attention spans.
On the strength of this week’s pronouncement, the only environmental change between now and never-never will be political. Armed with legislation that sounds socks-and-sandals green, a blue-suit party can now stump cross-country in an expected spring election accusing their opponents of being against clean air.
As a tactic, it owes plenty to U.S. presidential contests. Candidates there scavenge voting records to savage each other for not supporting legislation with feel-good titles hiding hideous flaws.
It’s also not new for a government that relentlessly labels itself “new.” Ideology and populism emerged as the prevailing currents early in this minority and are only gaining strength as the Conservative grip on power weakens.
Wilfully blind to bureaucratic policy options and isolated from all but a few cabinet ministers and advisers, Harper’s guidance comes from his own unshakeable certainty. Causes are disconnected from effects and facts are no match for beliefs.
Sure, there’s a certain appeal to simple Conservative solutions after watching Paul Martin’s Liberals make every decision labyrinth difficult. But the sad result is a federal government now asking history’s most educated and informed citizens to park their brains at the door and go with their gut.
There’s every reason to suspect Harper won’t get the environment answer he wants. Canadians in general — and young urbanites in particular — are light-years ahead of politicians on this century’s existential issue and long ago decided universal survival warrants a few personal sacrifices.
Harper and his minister of pollution, Rona Ambrose, now risk being seen as national health hazards. While the oil and auto industries breathe easily, the majority of voters who live in five big cities will not and that’s no way for Conservatives to cling to power let alone morph from minority to majority.
Harper isn’t giving up on that project and is using fear on issues more immediate than the environment to sculpt public opinion in more pleasing ways. From community crime to the threat of terrorism, the Prime Minister is positioning Conservatives as the party with the tough-as-boots, common-sense responses to scary problems that hurt our heads.
Except his government’s solutions wither under scrutiny. A quick glance south is all that’s needed to learn that three-strikes laws are better at filling prisons with the systemically poor as well as the mentally ill than making streets safe. A slightly longer look east to Iraq and Afghanistan is all that’s required to understand foreign boots on Islamic soil only metastasizes terrorism.
Conservatives don’t let those doubts intrude into their make-believe. Adult punishment is a faster, more satisfying crime fix than long-haul early childhood education, fighting poverty or stabilizing families. Questioning the wisdom of the Kandahar mission — let alone its changing purpose or dwindling chances of success — is unpatriotic and a low blow to troop morale.
Those arguments are bogus. They crank the clock back to a father-knows-best time when paternal decisions were self-evidently sound and safely beyond question.
Unfortunately for Harper and the Conservatives, the Canadian political family left home years ago and is now doing its own thinking. Hardened by the smorgasbord of retail choice, it methodically segregates truth from fiction, ads from consumer satisfaction, and, over time, reaches a comfortingly solid, if democratically imperfect, consensus.
Conservatives had an unusual opportunity this week to use the country’s collective environmental wisdom to change the cold image of a Prime Minister who is dangerously synonymous with his government and party. Rather than coddle interests ready and able to stand on their own economic feet, he could have taken the first halting steps toward a future that is already wreaking havoc with status quo and urgently demanding creative change. He could have made a measurable difference, not an empty statement.
That’s not what happened. Missing the moment to put some progressive back into Conservative, Harper defaulted to the core characteristics of a political base that knows the world is round but still wishes it were flat.
Additional articles by James Travers
Aren’t you glad you left the party that went to war then beggs the international community for help.
Making me sick now that we’ve committed troops for 2 more years they never thought of troop levels and now they find out their on their own.
This war should’ve been thioyught out a little/lot better before we commit our troops. but the polititions aren’t the ones sending their kids to get mangled. With body armour they now come home just not all of their bodiesmake the trip. 42 dead 200 injured and its just getting started.
Link to the Star post above:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1161381023695
MOST POLITICIANS TO NOT WANT WANT TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC…….THEY DESPISE THE PUBLIC…..ANY ONE WATCH THE tvo show couple of weeks ago with Chrietien advisor Goldenberg and Sean Conway…….. those jerks were lucky they did not have an live audience to taunt them with well deserved boos and hisses. they stated that politicians are misunderstood and the public…….expecting to much from their politicians……..
We the public expect our politicians to be open and honest……more important to obey the law like very other Canadian……and to go to jail for stealing from the public………and breaking the law….
By the way…….the Don River has been polluted for years……………one of the most toxic rivers in Canada…yet no one in the city of Toronto or the Provincial government do anything to clean it up but lie that this sewage problem of dumping has recently happened..
LIES LIES LIES LIES.
Harper will be kicked out in the next election…….its too bad the liberals can’t even pick a credible leader………because they 2 parties are just political bureacratic…..parties do not care about public input but achieving their party and party support agendas.
GREENs are like watermelons, green on outside RED on inside.(Commie red for those of the lower IQ) I can gaurantee you that the greens have an email campaign to blog on this site. The rest of the 98% of the people want nothing to do with the kooks.
Hi Garth,
Just a brief observation. As a Conservative, you garnered 44% of the vote in your riding in 2006. Therefore, your legitimacy (under our outdated first past the post system) rests on the expressed intentions of 44% of your constituents. Therefore, I would say, in order to determine your next course of action, to maintain legitimacy, you only need to satisfy 44% of your constituents. I think 44% would support your going Green! Of course, we have to work to transform the system so that the popular vote is better reflected in parliament, but in the meantime we have the FPTP system.
Best of luck with your decision.
Mr. Turner,
Your persecution and messiah complex is highly comedic and without basis. While you knew how to spin great stories on your blog, and clearly have an awesome talent for communication and a lot of heart, that didn’t actually make you effective. You are a very poor MP because you set yourself up to loose with no hope of actually pushing through your agenda. All that time you spent talking to constituents and understanding their views, needs, and wants is very admirable and I commend you on it. But in the end you wasted everyone’s time because you created a situation where these many great ideas could not be pushed through government. I say again, you placed your views and dogmas over the interests and views of the voter mandate that put you in your position. You talk of steadfast defiance? YOUR DEFIANCE IS ONLY ARROGANCE! Do not confuse the two. You are not being personally attacked, the substance of your record as an MP is, along with your words and thoughts, which are open for fair debate because you chose a public office. Your form as an MP is impeccable, the tools which you created to project that form like your blog and your whole DD platform is amazing marketing. But that has nothing to do with the SUBSTANCE of your performance on the mandate you were placed in office under. Rather it is a real shame that you used these tools with such irresponsibility when so much good could have been with them.
I don’t think that the PMO will bother spinning anything in regards to you Mr. Turner, but I am sure your narcissism has you convinced otherwise. While the media has given you some priority because you have all the elements of a good story, I think our country and world has enough issues to keep our government busy, so don’t hold your breath. The criticisms you are getting here come from everyday ordinary people you claim to represent, but if our criticisms are stinging enough for you think that we professional political operatives, let me say that I am personally flattered.
It is because of your own irresponsible and antagonistic words and actions that you lost your party status and hence the mandate by which you were voted in on. It doesn’t matter how many words of support you get, or what others are writing about you, both positive and negative, you only avoid the core issue. The contradiction of values that you have created for yourself with your own words is the only issue here. As per your words and your standards, RESIGN and CALL A BY-ELECTION.
this message is for GAry…….I would rather be a kook than a crooked liberal or PC candidates. that being said…….
if you want to pay high taxes to support a bunch of pompous liberal and conservative jackasses……….my suggestion is to remove yourself from this blog………we do not support arrogant assholes you feel they are entitled to pensions for life while they sit on their asses getting payoffs from special interest groups AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY, ETC ETC……….
Garth: You were a glory-hog and a shit-disturber, even though you knew how important it was for your party to maintain a majority government. If YOU were prime minister (God forbid) and some unruly MP decided he’d have a go at your every move, don’t you think you’d discipline him? And you were warned, Garth, you were warned. Suffice to say I have no sympathy for you. None whatsoever. You’re not a team-player, you’re just looking out for number one, and you deserved what you got.
One last thing; I hope you DO join the green party so thag everyone can see what a hypocrit you were over emerson. Or maybe you’d run in a by-election? I wonder what your riding association and constituents would say.
Not that it’s important, although the current piece on Jane Pitfield was interesting – It’s Deep JIVE Interests Garth, not ‘JINE’.
Thought I’d mention it so Stephen doesn’t make an ass of himself again with specious claims about you doing blog editing.
don’t support the liberal like Belinda Stronach…………
you will have no credibilty……if you join the Green Party who will attract the best and the brightest to an alternative party that is not overwhelmed by crooked lawyers……….who pretend that they know what is best for the canadian public……
This is an historical moment to focus on a new party that has gained momentum in Europe but little fanfare in Canada because….welll….someone like you has not come around…….
I have to admit you have tremendous marketing savvy…….I will have to use a blog to promote my employment business which I will use in the new. year.
You probably think it is just fine if military personnel on the battlefield keep blogs detailing their strategies?????
In the name of free speech right Garth. People have a right to know every detail of their plans in advance – even the enemy.
Mr. Turner:
In the interests of total disclosure, I will say that I am a Liberal. However, if I lived in Halton I would be tempted to vote for you, and now that you’ll be running as either an Independent or a Green, I’d definitely vote for you.
I’ve been consistently impressed by your devotion to your principles, which the vast majority of politicians are willing to check at the doors of parliament. Beyond that, I’m impressed by your committment to democracy. If Canada were the type of democracy it ought to be, you would not have been turfed from caucus, MPs would be allowed to dissent from the party line without fear of reprisal, and the party leaders would not hold as much power as they do. Alas, we don’t live in that democracy, and that makes it difficult for honest men and women to serve in politics.
You don’t need me to tell you this, but you need to seriously consider your options at this point, so for your consideration here’s my argument. Personally, I would like to see the Green Party have some representation in the House of Commons. I think it is shameful and a travesty of democracy that there is a party, supported by a good 5% of the Canadian public, which does not have a single seat in the House of Commons. If you sat as a Green MP, you would have not only the mandate of those who elected you, but the largest mandate of any MP in the House of Commons – 600,000 people strong, 600,000 people who voted for a legitimate party but did not get any representation in parliament for their votes. You could give those 600,000 people a voice and a vote.
I have been watching and reading about your being evicted from the Conservative Party and I must say I agree with them. My reason, from my understanding Caucus meetings are confidential and from reading your blog over the last few months I have read some things that have left me shaking my head.
If I am with a group of friends for example, and we have discussions I would hate to see what I said appearing on a blog. I would question my frienship and I would not associate with that person. I think it’s kind of the same thing isn’t it? Your “team mates” no longer trusted you to have discourse for fear of it appearing on your blog. It’s one thing to work for consituents and quite another to break confidence.
I agree that the Greens have nothing conservative about them. One might as well join the communist party.
Just look at their platform, it’s all about how they ‘the government’ can fix everyone’s problems using smart spending (ha!) and re-dsitribution of our taxes (from people working to people that don’t want to, I can only assume). Nothing about creating wealth, encouraging entrepreneurship, individualism (I know, bad word for Canadians, we’re so nice…), responsability etc…
I especially like the part where they want to renegotiate NAFTA (read: scrap it). Considering that 80% of our exports go to the US that should make them popular.
It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.
Much has happened since we handed over our voice:
Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples†in the military.
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.
Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.
Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.
Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.
Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.
Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.
Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.
Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.
Somehow torture is tolerated.
Somehow lying is tolerated.
Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.
Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.
Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.
Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.
Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.
Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.
Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.
Somehow this is tolerated.
Somehow nobody is accountable for this.
In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow†was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.
Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman
And these same people Kevin’s talking about, Harper and his kind want to emulate.
Getreal,
Why should Garth have to rerun? To do the Conservatives a favour? How ironic to even contemplate such a thing: “We’re tossing you out, and by the way, it would be ever so kind if you were to please give us a chance to immediately take the seat back.â€. I heard an interview with the head of Mr. Turner’s Conservative Riding Association earlier this week and he was not too enthralled over what the Party had done, especially given the effort that went into the recent nomination battle undertaken and won by Turner. Instead, I would want to know what the bulk of his constituents are asking of him, the only ones who really count in this matter, particularly given his steadfast position that that is who his boss is? It is not necessary to rush into an election to find out; I think the Town Hall meetings will provide answers.
That aside. please think about it from strategic position. The Conservatives wanted to punish Scott Brisson and Belinda Stronach for their floor-crossing, and made a concerted effort to do so – brought out the heavyweights to assist in the ridings during the election campaign and engaged in somewhat of a minor vendetta – to try to retake those seats. This isn’t something you want to partake in lightly, in an offhand, spur-of-the-moment way, just to satisfy some desire for vengeance. The only alternate contender the Conservatives have brought forward recently is that McVety-connected fellow. Present him as your proposed representative in a Golden Horseshoe city and you’re sunk; it will cause many people will think long and hard about what’s really at the core of the party (think Rondo Thomas and Ajax-Pickering: 20% behind the Liberal winner). In my view, it’s a pretty sh**ty strategy to act in such an immediate manner, if you truly want the seat. I suspect in about 8 months time you’ll be able to try in earnest; in the interim, take the time to prepare wisely.
Dube, I try to be courteous most times when debating. Having said, most of my previous comments (going back many months) that deal with Garth’s attitude has had the same message. I don’t have much respect for people, who constantly blow their own horn – especially those who CHOOSE to dimish their colleagues (same party or another), as most of the MPs do work hard for their constituents. BTW: most of these posters that came out of the wood work and are praising Garth and putting him on a martyr’s pedestal – where were they before? How do you teach your children – I hope you teach your children to be respectful towards their classmates while debating points of view.
Please note as well – that when Garth does not agree with a commentator or another person’s opinion, he becomes very beligerant. He may be soft spoken, when being interviewed by his friends in the media – but, his writings show a different side to him.
Would you trust and respect someone you know that disses you all the time? Or makes your ideas his own? Or undermines you every step of the way? For how long?
Brandon said, “And just think about it, you’d be representing not just the people of Halton, but everyone around the country who voted Green and didn’t get an MP.
I’m sure you’ll make the right decision, but for what it’s worth, I’d vote for you if you were Green!”
I never thought of it that way. In that light, the feedback you’re getting from people outside of your riding regarding the idea of joining the Green Party is very relevant.
Good luck with your town hall meetings. Looking forward to hearing how they go.
If only I was so lucky to have an MP like yourself out where I live. Thanks for standing up for Canadians.
Joel French
Lloydminster, SK
jmccain said, “I agree that the Greens have nothing conservative about them. One might as well join the communist party.
Just look at their platform, it’s all about how they ‘the government’ can fix everyone’s problems using smart spending (ha!) and re-dsitribution of our taxes (from people working to people that don’t want to, I can only assume). Nothing about creating wealth, encouraging entrepreneurship, individualism (I know, bad word for Canadians, we’re so nice…), responsability etc…
The Green Party is very different from the Communist Party. You say there is ‘nothing conservate about them’, but what defines conservative? I note that it’s funny how the NDP try to dissmiss the Greens as closet conservatives and the Conservatives try to dismiss the Greens as left wing or anything but conservative. The GPC is hard to understand, but worth the effort.
You’ve got the Green Party’s platform all wrong and your assumptions are hostile and also incorrect. How do you define wealth, and how do you propose it is created in a truly sustainable way? The Greens have a lot to say on encouraging entrepreneurship, and they are a fiscally responsible party. I’m curious what you’d like to see on responsibility, accountability or transparency? Surely the Conservative Party isn’t the best model of these values given their recent track record.
jmccain
The very people you say don’t work are the ones that get multi million dollar going away checks. The poor and needy in the country take very little of the pie your so worried about. The top 1% get 75% of every dollar So that means the bottem 50% share 10% of the counry’s wealth.
Oh my! PMSH supporters do have quite the potty mouths. For shame, especially when everything else that sputters forth from their mouths stinks something awful even without all the name-calling.
Well one thing I do know is that the Green Party would increase the gas prices! I know this because I asked the Green candidates who were running in the last 2 elections.
Because I drive an fuel effecient car, take public transportation, and earn enough to pay the small increase in my gas cost, I am extremely concerned about the cost of our foods and products. The increase of fuel costs would be passed to us. Seniors on fixed incomes, especially those who are already at the margins, would have a real problem. The same would apply to families with low income earners.
I find that while the Green Party has the environment as their core agenda, they are way too radical.
Some will argue that many other countries have Green party government members. However, one must remember, all of these countries are small, so transportation is not a huge issue as would be in Canada – a vast expansive country. I really don’t think people in the north want to pay 10$ for a litre of milk or triple the cost of baby foods.
The poor and needy in the country take very little of the pie your so worried about.
Around here the Superstore pays 15$/hour for night shift. Please tell the poor and needy to apply. We have more help wanted ads then poor and needy willing to apply for the jobs.
Thanks!
I have noticed a few postings that appear to reflect a stereotypical view of the Green Party i.e Green on the outside, Red on the inside.etc. This is patently false and misrepresents the Green Party of Canada. I would encourage anyone who wishes to discuss the Green Party philosophy or policy to please first read our platform and Press Releases at http://www.greenparty.ca. For instance, the “Green Tax Shift” policy plank is not about the redistribution of income/wealth from some individuals to others but a gradual, revenue-neutral and partial shift of federal taxes OFF incomes and payrolls and ONTO polluting activities and products in order to guide society towards environmental sustainability using the effectiveness of the market economy. Please note that this is not proposing to replace the progressive income tax system but complement it with a smarter and selective consumption/production tax to eventually replace the dumb almost universal consumption tax known as the GST.
Eric Walton – Former Foreign Affairs Shadow Cabinet Critic Green Party of Canada
This blog has turned into Rabble and I shall not be back!
Neutralsam spouting the same crap as always…didn’t ET over at SDA teach you anything about logic over emotion??!!
Any logic that was previously displayed on this blog site has now gone out the window and it has been “taken over” by the emotive “Rabble rousers”.
If anyone thinks the Greens are fiscally conservative..check out last election’s campaign promises that were costed by the meadia, their’s were costed THE HIGHEST of all parties at a whopping $94 BILLION!! They will tax us even more than the Dippers to effect exactly a reduction of .00072% of green house gases. Sheesh!!
Goodbye Garth, have fun editing the blog now…when will you ever find time to actually WORK as an MP??
neutralsam,
That is the most genuine thing written that I have seen anywhere for a long time. Thanks for that.
And Garth,
What Dube wrote just above is probably the best advice to you that I have seen here.
You have the luxury (?) of taking a seat as an independent M.P. Chuck Cadman was the most honest and important independent in my memory. He asked his constituents what they wanted too, and it was reflected in the House. That is true democracy, and is something I have dreamed of since the advent of the Internet. It is easy enough to set up a secure server, and to issue codes to your constituency for access. IP logging further secures and validates submissions.
Something that I am just waiting for, and warn all against, is black-box (read black hole) voting – a la Diebold and the US experience of stolen elections. These are dangerous times for Canada, and we must be vigilant to the subversion of it by all parties and politicians.
Take your time Turner, and listen to the people. I keep pushing the CAP because it is just another medium, and is a Canadian grass roots party – as was Reform (different philosophies though). If you have the support of your constituents, independence is viable. To hell with “isms”.
federal taxes OFF incomes and payrolls
I noticed that your platform only gives income tax breaks to people earning 45K/year or less. So what happens to everyone else’s income tax? Stays the same or increases? I guess you don’t represent professionals, entrepreneurs, businesses or pretty much anyone in the middle class.
Plus, we will also have to pay for the extra taxes that you will impose on industries that you consider bad, since companies pass their costs to the consumer. Of course, chances are that investments in the industries that you are hostile to, and that currently provide this country’s wealth, will just disappear, and with it, millions of jobs.
The statement by Charley that the Green Party’s 2006 Platform had the highest spending is not accurate. We had in fact the lowest spending of all the main political parties – see http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/realitycheck/spendingtallies.html
Addressing the critical challenge of reducing Greenhouse Gas emissions is a collective global responsibility. Of course the relative share of most countries with less population will be a fraction of the whole but it is the combined effort of everyone that makes the significant final difference.
The percentage figure used to downplay Canada’s impact is also misleading because it should only be factoring in man-made releases of Greenhouse Gases that we can act on and it is also only looking at the first stage Kyoto target not the end goal reduction objectives. Working within the Kyoto Accord has the crucial significance of establishing and engaging a collective effort and will to solving a global problem.
Take another international agreement and success story – The Montreal Protocol on Ozone Depleting Substances – surely no one would have suggested that countries that released fewer CFC’s could choose if they wanted opt out of the Agreement because their impact on the Ozone layer was relatively small ! Who then determines the cut-off line for small? What kind of motivation for a deal does this opt out provision create for other countries who have a greater impact. Everyone must be in or the process breaks down.
Eric Walton
To answer JMCCain’s question, the reason the Green Party income tax cut is on from the FIRST $45,000 of taxable income (this includes people who make more) is because the new “Eco-Tax” on pollution/non-renewable resources would be small and gradual to allow for easier economic adjustment and to make sure the amount of shift is the minimum required. Therefore there is more than enough taxation room within that first $45,000 to incrementally increase an Eco-tax and decrease income and payroll taxes on a revenue-neutral basis.
The experience of countries that have created market and tax incentives for energy efficiency, pollution reduction and resource conservation is that industry becomes more competitive especially in an environment of increasing global demand for finite resources.
It is in fact failure to implement “true” or “full cost” accounting that puts our future and jobs most at risk. The key is to implement these changes gradually but progressively to bring about environmental sustainability. By the way the natural subsidy of a clean, diverse and abundant natural environment and relatively stable climate is in the trillions of dollars – degrade this and watch ieconomies collapse on a national and global scale.
Eric Walton
Dube,
Thank you for your thoughtful post and views. Let me make some things clear. Firstly, I am a constituent in Mr. Turner’s ridding. I voted for Mr. Turner based on the principals and platform provided by his party. Those principals emanate from the agenda the leadership has set and being a member of that party means that Mr. Turner should be true to that agenda and platform, or otherwise he should have run for another party or as an independent. So as his boss as you put it, I am saying he is fired, as I did the hiring and his resume didn’t meet his performance.
I agree with your strategic analysis. I am not a person driven by revenge or payback, but principle. I am willing to lose on principal. For all the blathering about principal and standing up I see in many of these posts, I find it surprising that people don’t see the simple principal for a by-election. I believe Mr. Turner doesn’t represent the silent majority view of his ridding and most people would vote for a conservative again if given the opportunity. But he of course thinks otherwise, so I invite him to run under whatever party or platform he likes and win his mandate democratically. He has simply lost his current mandate, by his actions and no one else’s.
I am not looking for any answers in town hall meetings, the answer is already clear and is found in Mr. Turners own words, thoughts, and condemnations of others! RESIGN and call a BY-ELECTION.
Catherine makes the point “Well one thing I do know is that the Green Party would increase the gas prices! I know this because I asked the Green candidates who were running in the last 2 elections.” in reference to the impact of a Green Party carbon tax that would vary according to the dirtiness of the fossil fuel consumed.
She omits to mention that the additional cost of the gasoline would be offset by reduction in income and payroll taxes. This means no net new taxes for the average person, even less net tax for conservers and higher taxes for those who pollute more. It is this kind of accountability that allows for rational economic decisions and environmental sustainability.
Ironically, it is this Green Party “true-cost” accounting approach of a gradual and orderly increase in gasoline prices that will lead to higher energy efficiency development and purchase of fuel efficient automobiles that will REDUCE individual and economic vulnerability to oil scarcity and persistent price spikes. This oil scarcity that will only get worse as China and India rapidly expand automobile use and as remaining oil reserves become more expensive to extract and process.
The economic signal sent to automakers and buyers when gas prices are low leads to the production and purchase of gas guzzlers. Then when prices spike up as they inevitably do, it is too late since car ownership is measured in years. In fact the current wildly varying but steadily increasing gas price maximizes oil company revenues because it sends confusing market signals.
Eric Walton
Oooh boy, look Garth the crew from small dead animals are coming time to get the kids off the street. their kind would rather run them down then slow down or stop for the little tikes.
Just look what kate did to that poor gopher…
BTW: most of these posters that came out of the wood work and are praising Garth and putting him on a martyr’s pedestal – where were they before?
Catherine,
I have more than noted this and consider it temporary spurious noise that I expect to dissipate in time so that regular visitors here can get on with their periodic contributions. I do hope the overall flavour does not change, because it is worthwhile to see what different viewpoints exist out there. My first visit to this site was one of pleasant surprise because it did seem to be less partisan than I would have expected, Neopolitan rather than vanilla.
As for children, well that’s a continual work-in-progress, supplemented with real-life anecdotes taken from the life of dear old Dad of what NOT to do in certain circumstances…
Getreal,
I will begin with a conclusion: we will have to agree to disagree.
In my view not everything is ruled by predetermined absolutes and there are circumstances where judgment is dictated by nuance that can only be informed by first conducting research. The judgment as I see it here is whether it is better to subject constituents to an election and the associated electoral expenses now, and then again in 8 months time, AND to subject all other parties to the same inconvenience and their own associated expenses, or to complete the term as an Independent until such time that an election is formally called. For me to make such judgment, I would want to first gather information in the form of feedback from constituents through E-mail, letters, face-to-face consultation, and the like, and not immediately rush in headlong into a decision uninformed. I believe Garth is doing just that now. I trust that he will publish the results of those findings and would make them available for scrutiny to those who question the validity.
This blog has turned into Rabble and I shall not be back!
Goodbye Charley.
Say, that reminds me of something my parents would say … and a movie … and a song:
http://bobbydarin.com/goodbyecharlie.html
[...] because of his blog, sent some good ol’ blogospheric love yesterday by reprinting my old post in its entirety on his blog. Apparently, I *amuse* Mr. Turner [...]