It is a humbling experience to stand before one’s electors, especially in a crisis. Especially when you have no hard answers for them. Especially when the most powerful man in the country has just done his best to render you inconsequential and irrelevant in their eyes.
And so it was I went to the Tansley Woods library building in Burlington today for a Town Hall meeting. Had Esther said to me in August, when the room was booked, that I would be showing up this day as an independent MP, stripped of my Conservative membership, ejected from the Tory caucus, removed to the farthest back corner of the House of Commons, and denied the right to stand in the next election for the party I once ran to lead, I’d have been incredulous.
But here I was, walking in. And instead of listening to people talk about the issues – Afghanistan, the environment, taxes – this meeting would be about me. Three days after the bombshell of my political life, I wondered if my constituents would be here to tell me to quit because they wanted a Conservative, tell me to join the Liberals or the Greens, or tell me to stay, and fight.
The answer was soon apparent.
The first person I met was the library manager, who told me the room was already over-capacity at 60 people, and the doors would have to be shut. I said of course, and she left, as more people poured in.
I spoke for a few minutes, framing the discussion, telling people I need their input and direction, and then the tide flowed. For 90 minutes it was a cacophony of opinion and emotion, impression and conviction. As people clamoured to speak it became apparent there were Conservative, Liberal and Green voters there. Some had supported me, some not. But all had a message.
Early on one man stood. “How dare the national caucus tell us who is a Conservative,†he thundered. “The tail is now wagging the dog. We tell them who a Conservative is, especially in a riding that was won, in spite of Stephen Harper.â€
Echoing a theme of the afternoon, another said, “Every government comes in promising more democratic reform – free votes and transparency – and look where we are now. This is not a Garth Turner problem. As voters, this is our problem.â€
A young man, wife and child with him, said this twenty minutes later, “Is this not a case of, do we wish to be governed or to govern? If they don’t listen to my MP, then what’s the point? I have one vote only, every few years, and right now we’re smack in the middle.â€
“We all knew we were voting for the Reform Party,†said a middle-aged woman. “But we knew you were different and hoped they would accept you – you said you would be accessible and transparent, and you have been. We do not want you to resign.â€
A Liberal organizer said she was a former PC, and added, “This is the neo-Con party. You should consider the Liberals.†And several Green supporters in the room argued passionately that I have an historic opportunity to put that party on the map, becoming the first Green MP, and lending my experience and notoriety to it.
“You tell us you have had a falling-out with your political boss,†a man in his thirties said. “But you are wrong. Your bosses are in this room, and you have not fallen out with us. We will support you.â€
But how? As what? I asked directly if I had lost credibility or personal integrity or – most important – the right to represent them, since being rejected by the Stephen Harper Conservatives. The answer was resounding. I could not have asked for more.
But the support of my constituents was not unqualified. Some may want me to join the Greens. Some may wish I’d negotiate my way back into the Harper caucus. But all of them, this day at least, wanted me to maintain my integrity by standing up for them as a proud MP – no matter how far back my new seat is, or how daunting the challenges I may face in Ottawa.
But can one man change the system, I asked? The room thundered in applause amid shouts of “You bet.â€
And then we voted.
(1) Resign your seat – zero
(2) Negotiate back into caucus – 17
(3) Join the Liberals – zero
(4) Go Green – 17
(5) Stay independent – 31
As the room emptied, my hand was shaken. And shaking.
60 comments ↓
Garth,
I was very disappointed to hear about your removal from caucus. I find you to be a breath of fresh air in Ottawa. I now keep your website on my list of favourites.
I am tired of politicians (of all stripes) who blindly follow their party policy, who main job appears to be smiling for the local newspaper camera with each business that opens and government funded project that appears in the community.
I thought you were bang-on with the David Emerson issue.
I want to see an end to the micro-managed policy of muzzling the Conservative ministers and MP’s and intend to do this in the next election. I want to see an end to the blather in the local newspaper when our MP’s write their columns. Free and open speech allows us to make our own minds up as to who to vote for, as we can understand their personal positions on issues better.
I want an MP who shows that they have some personal intellect, are truly committed to their constituents, are not afraid to speak their mind and have a part in shaping and influencing their parties policies.
I don’t think selecting a leader should mean accepting all their doctrine and policy. Their should always be room for critical thinking. It shouldn’t just be left to the opposition to raise issues.
Go get ‘em Garth. If you were still in Caledon, you’d have my vote.
I am a fourth year student at McMaster University and a resident of the
Burlington portion of your constituency. I applaud you for having
expressed your opinions on your blog and in parliament against the tide
of your party. I am also impressed at your willingness to be so
interactive with your consituents. Blogs, town hall fora, et cetera,
are wonderful ways to allow consituents more points of access to the
democratic process. I am also impressed to see a fiscally conservative
MP who is also committed to the protection to the environment – I knew
they existed! How our country chooses to treat the environment in this
critical moment will leave a lasting legacy (for better or for worse).
To be clear, I did not vote for you in the past election, nor would I
ever vote for the new Conservatives. I would, however, seriously
consider voting for you in future (by-)election should you choose to
join the Green Party.
Through your blog and through your appearances in the media, please
stress the importance for democratic reform and proportional
representation. Our system of democracy is very patriarchal (in the
sense that long lasting majority governments “parent” our country’s
legislatures). Proportional represent would allow for more nuanced
political positions to be expressed in parliament. Also, it would
force consensuses of more Canadians than ever before.
Garth, I just read through some of the comments that people have posted on your blogsite. They generated this new idea.
Some people have mentioned starting up a new party. That would be too much trouble. Instead you should make use of parties that are currently in existence. Coalitions are normally formed after an election. I am going to suggest that you attempt to form a coalition now of some of the existing parties that have some type of credible policies that Canadian voters would be willing to discuss.
For example you have the Green Party, the Canadian Action Party, you have a lot of left-over Progressive Conservatives, you have Libertarians, and an unknown number of disaffected supporters of the current Major parties. I would assume that we would not want to include any of the Socialist parties (Communist, Marxist, etc.).
If you could put together this type of coalition before the next election, everyone could settle on a consensus of some basic major policy items to run on in the election.The party who can put up the most credible candidate in each of the Federal Ridings would get the honour of running against the Major parties. Each party leader involved in the coalition would choose the riding that they have the best chance at getting elected in. That would be automatic. Every other riding is up for grabs for the BEST credible high quality candidate that we can find in that riding.
Hopefully most of these possible coalition members are against NAFTA and the formation of the North American Union. If so, we could put together a very strong set of economic policies, something that Steve Harper has not done at any time since he became leader of the Conservatives.
I think I now know why Harper has been operating in the manner that he has. He may be trying to follow the political philosophy of Leo Strauss, where the “Noble Lie” is a common tool for the more enlightened elites to use against the common people. The people that he worked with at the University of Calgary Politics department are all Straussians.
President George W. Bush is surrounded by many neo-conservatives, a key core of whom are Straussians. They have been lying through their teeth for many years now, especially about Iraq and the supposed war on terror. All of these neo-cons are actually practicing a form of neo-fascism. George Bush is literally shredding the American Constitution to shreds right now. What is Harper or the new Liberal leader going to do to Canadians once the North American Union becomes a reality?
Since Harper and some of the people around him are also neo-cons, they are also practicing a form of neo-fascism.
It is time to get the media on board for an anti-fascism campaign. How many of the Liberals also follow the ideas of Leo Strauss?
The only Strauss that we want in Canada is the music of Johann Strauss as performed by Andre Rieu and his orchestra.
I trust that you will give these thoughts some serious consideration. If you are going to have to make some drastic moves, then they might as well be worth the effort and the potential risks. This coalition of parties could also be known as the “none of the above” option for voters.
Dear Mr. Turner,
on your website, you posted one of your angry
constituents comments regarding your status as an
Independent MP. His frustration highlights the
confusion surrounding our current electoral system.
When we vote in Canada, it is unclear whether we are
voting for the party – as your critic claims he did -
or if it is the individual person whom we are electing
to represent us in office. Thus, we need a voting
system that distinguishes between the two.
When I was in graduate school, I attended a speech
given by Ed Broadbent where he argued that since
defined constituencies, with individual members
responsible for those ridings, are an entrenched part
of the Canadian political culture, we cannot simply
abolish the current system, even if it does not
entirely accurately reflect the wishes of the voting
public. The best, most fair compromise, would be to
add a proportionality constant to the voting equation.
Giving the electorate two votes on the ballot: one
for the individual member and the other for the party
of choice would clarify matters greatly. The current
single member plurality would be maintained, with MPs
accountable to their specific constituents, while the
proportionality constant would be accountable to the
Canadian public generally. This system would require
either a) a 100 new seats in the Commons, or b) a
redistribution of the current seats, expanding the
current ridings so that they all fit into 208 seats,
so that the other one hundred seats could be reserved
for the additional ballot question.
I remember reading, in the National Post, that you
criticized PM Harper for welcoming David Emmerson into
the Conservative Caucus, and dislike the appointment
of Michael Fortier to the Senate. Neither one of
these acts would have been controversial under this
proposed system. Mr. Fortier could have been added to
Cabinet via the Conservative party’s share of the
proportionality constant, and Mr. Emmerson would have
known definitively whether the people of Vancouver
voted for him or his former party.
I personally believe we vote for the the person and
not the party, so I have no issue with you joining a
new party. That being said, I understand that others
simply vote for the party with complete disregard for
an individuals capabilities.
Good luck to you sir, you have a difficult and
rewarding job to do.
Hi Garth,
Just a brief observation. As a Conservative, you garnered 44% of the vote in your riding in 2006. Therefore, your legitimacy (under our outdated first past the post system) rests on the expressed intentions of 44% of your constituents. Therefore, I would say, in order to determine your next course of action, to maintain legitimacy, you only need to satisfy 44% of your constituents. I think 44% would support your going Green! Of course, we have to work to transform the system so that the popular vote is better reflected in parliament, but in the meantime we have the FPTP system.
Best of luck with your decision.
Miriam
University of Cambridge
Garth,
I left the Conservative Party two years ago having become greatly discouraged by the kind of politics that kept repeating itself over and over again. I chose the Green Party becasue I liked the focus, the grassroots enthusiasm, and the determination to make this a sustainable world.
Maybe you’d be better off as an independent and only answer to your constituents.Our party system leaves much to be desired! But if Green looks good to you, welcome aboard! I know you would good for us!
Hello Honourable Garth Turner,
My wife and I are very upset at the Harper Government for their total disregard for the pressing environmental problems that face us and our teenage daughter.
Please consider joining the Green Party. This would send a strong signal to Canadians like ourselves to also join the Green Party in our area and become active in promoting the Green Economy. This would give people like us that we can make a difference in Canada.
You should be proud of your convictions. Thank you.
Mark
Fredericton, NB
ii dont understand ho wone women stood up and urged you to go liberal, and yet go liberal got zero votes and noegotiate back into the tories got 17.
did you reverse those two numbers by mistake?
I believe she may have changed her opinion in the course of the debate. I actually looked at her during that vote, and her hand was down. — Garth
Hi,
I am not one of your constituents, I live just outside Ottawa, but I wanted
to tell you I support you. I think you got a raw deal and I am very upset
with the CPC for what they did to you.
I had never accessed your blog before, but thanks to the advertising of the
CPC, I checked it out. I think it’s great! I bookmarked it to check in on
it periodically.
Keep up the good fight.
Diana
Just look at the rise of cancer in our youth, that’ll tell you we’re doing something wrong.
Just keep using fossel fuels in everything we use and we’ll see even a greater rise in cancer. Plastic why did those newborn lab mice have cancer? oh their food was stored in plastic contianers, thats what the lab found out, the hard way. But what happened to the people that check things like this before the public uses them? oh fired for telling the truth losing funding from the government? why is the government sticking up for the chemical compnies? money, jobs, is your job worth your mother/fathers health, remember this when you drive them to their next cancer treatment.
Lets keep business out of the Government
Hi Garth,
I can imagine how tempting it must be to move to the Green Party, I know as a former Progressive Conservative I have voted for the Green Party in the last two elections.
I believe that your best option will be to remain independent for the time being, and come the next election (which will probably be this spring) run as an independent or for the Conservative Party.
Then once Stephan Harper fails to achieve a majority government, the knives will come out for him and a leadership contest should ensue.
Given the strength of the postings on your website over the past four days it is clear that you have national appeal, with this base you will be able to secure the leadership of the Conservative Party.
Stephen Harper is a bully and there are a lot of Progressive Conservatives looking for somebody to stand up to him, I believe that you are that person.
Help us take back our Conservative Party.
So I hope you will bide your time and wait until Mr. Harper’s anger and hate have brought him down.
All the best to you and your wife.
Regards
Ray Hall
Don’t flatter yourself asshole. The conservative voters who you sacraficed on the alter of your ego where not in attendance at that meeting. What a joy it’s going to be for some of us to attend your headquarters on the next election night and celebrate your ass getting kicked! You think it’s all about you….just wait and see what the voters of Halton think in a couple of months.
Mark, the Green Party fully supports Kyoto. So by extension, the Green Party supports sending 10+ BILLION of our tax dollars to China and India. I don’t know about you Mark, I certainly don’t expect our Canadian government to do this. I work too hard for my money and I send enough of it to our government to ensure that we have proper services!
So, I guess a big question for Garth would be: Garth do you support the current Kyoto agreement, which the Sierra Club does and the Green Party does?
Catherine: I was never a member of the Sierra Club – please try to be more factual and precise. I was a national director of the Sierra Legal Defence Fund. Trust me, there is a difference. As for Kyoto, I do not support the deal the Liberals signed and never kept. We need a strategy made here, for us. We did not get it on Thursday. — Garth
Hi Garth are you sticking with the outcome of the vote and staying independant? Stay away from those Greens they will destroy our country with their socialist views.
Fascinating and strange…..all this animosity towards the PM…first they beg him to take over the Alliance…next he manages to unite the right (something no one could do before him) he restores the finances of a bankrupt party then he wins the election….Don’t you just hate em??
Why is it that the most successful and brilliant members of society (of which I am fortunate to know many) think Harpers a strong leader and doing a great job? Funny how that is……I guess i got the wrong friends…
Garth,
I’ve seen a lot of suggestions to you to join the Greens, the Liberals and even the NDP. I haven’t seen anyone mention the Progressive Canadian Party. I still cannot fathom the fact that the party of Sir John A., the party that build Canada, was destroyed in a single act of greed by the impostor McKay and its Conservative brand handed over to a bunch of deranged maniacs from Alberta. Garth, this is where your roots are. Please right this wrong!
So Garth you did not get the strategy you wanted on Thursday. It was not perfect but it is a start.
If you don’t get what you want, you then work with your team and hammer out new deals, negotiate new plans and make the environmental plan better next time. You don’t throw a temper tantrem(spell check)and fall on the ground kicking you arms and legs like a little kid. And don’t tell me we don’t have time, we’ve only been recording this environment stuff for the past 50-100 yrs and the world has been around for millions. I am sick of hearing how bad we are because we are making changes.
That is why the majority of people don’t listen to or take serious these environmentalists because all they do is complain, criticize and tell us how to run our lives. They have no concrete solutions, and the ones they do have are way out in left field. I am not sold on global warming or climate change because like I said, we have not been recording this stuff or had the technology to record this stuff long enough. What we do have is minority special interset groups preaching there beliefs and socialism agendas.
So take this as a learning experience and get back to the PC government. Working on real issues like reduced wait times for health care, reducing over taxation for everyone, implementing pension and income splitting etc….
Come on Garth just do it!
Oh yes I almost forgot…I too miss the old PC party…….you know, the one with 14 seats….financially bankrupt…and led by the great Joe Who…..ah yes…the good old days before rotten Stephen Harper…..LOL…..
Hi Garth, Do you think Rondo Thomas will now get to run as a Conservative in Halton? I think even as an independent you would still stand a chance to win as this would pretty much take the Conservatives out of the race if this happens. I wonder how many of the Conservative voters would still support them if this was their candidate. Regards
Garth
Just a word of warning (a bit late I guess) stay off CTV and Question Period. The whole CTV network is pro Conservative. But maybe you know that already. I always read your blog but I don’t think I have ever written before.
Good job standing for what you believe in. With you all the way.
I have heard at least a few comments about your being an intelligent person, but when you make a statement like, “I don’t understand why I was suspended from the Conservative caucus”, I really question your intelligence. Your say that you answer to your constituents first, but don’t your understand that your constituents expect you to be team player. Put your dumb ego aside and maybe you will accomplish something worthwhile.
Katherin Murrin, Nfld
Garth:
Thank you for the update on the Town Hall Meeting… there is no better example of true democracy.
I looked at your face in the picture and thought how painful and excruciating these events must be for you personally… yet exciting too, to learn how much you are supported and how truly well real democracy works.
Do stay Independent, do NOT try to get back into the Conservative Party..they should be on bended knee to get you back, but we won’t hold our breath for that.
You see, watching and reading your blog as you campaigned in Halton, I was sure and certain that all you were campaigning for was in fact the essence of the Conservative Party…that you, in person, telling us all how you felt, what you thought, who you went to see and how they responded day after day…all of these experiences and your articulation of the policies we could look forward to being implemented when the Conservatives won the election..that..all of that… was the true essence of what we were , at last, voting FOR..not just voting AGAINST the liberals and all their chicanery, theft and corruption… yet…when the Conservatives do win…a minority… and , as far as I could see, doing a very good job..pull THIS stunt.. I begin to question just why this happened to a stellar MP , one they could ill afford to lose.
I believe you have been sorely put upon and have bourne it with strength, grace and intelligence. Commitment to your constituents is exemplary and I only wish MY Conservative MP out here in BC was as dedicated!
Thank you for sharing this experience with us as painful for you as it must be. Do know that many of us who have come to know you through your blog and your writings and columns are with you and for you and are proud of your stance.
If you are not back in…conservatives have lost my vote…and a very large majority of the people I speak with. In my position, I must speak to well over 100 people per day.
Keep up the great work Garth. You should run for PM.
For someone who got kicked out you are kicking a lot of butt.
Let me lighten up the bright side a bit more: you are doing things for democracy in this country. All MPs are going to have to give some thought to their position between a rock (voters) and hard place (party machine.) They even might rediscover conscience and integrity. And PMSH has gotten another lesson in how not to do things.
Whether you stay independent or gang up with another partyl, don’t change. We need you the way you are as an MP and blogger.
The statement by Catherine that “the Green Party fully supports Kyoto. So by extension, the Green Party supports sending 10+ BILLION of our tax dollars to China and India.” is not accurate. This was more the direction the previous Liberal government was heading to meet its Kyoto target through buying emission credits from other countries.
In contrast to that approach, the Green Party is proposing, among other measures, a revenue-neutral Carbon Tax to achieve the Kyoto target.
“Revenue-neutral” means that any new government revenue obtained by a Carbon Tax would be offset by reduction in income and payroll taxes so that net taxes would not increase on average. As a matter of fact they would probably go down for people who reduce their environmental impact and go up for those who could care less. It’s putting conserve back into conservative!
Eric Walton – former Shadow Cabinet Foreign Affairs Critic Green Party of Canada
Dear Mr. Garth Turner,
I am Julian and I am writing you from Oakville Ontario. I would like to thank you personally for your amazing and commendable efforts to help me and my family
back in July when I was stranded in Lebanon. If it was not for you, God knows how long I would have been there. You and your team had us all very impressed in regards to the amount of time you committed to my issue.
In addition I find it disgusting about how you were kicked out of caucus recently, from what I have read it seems like a breach of our national values and everything this country is suppose to strive for. It has the whole nation wondering what has become of our once great democratic system.
For all this i send my support and most true gratitude for everything you have done for my family, our community and our regional society.
Sincerely
Julian M.
Gary V, what views from the Green Party’s policies do you see as socialist? This is a misconception of the party (misunderstood as being more ‘left-wing’ on all issues than the NDP), but if you’d like to discuss it further please go to the Green Party website, email me and/or see my blog.
We need your help in Toronto-St. Paul’s! Our Member does not communicate and her office does not return calls. Please come and save us. I needed her advice a few months ago and there was no communication from her “helpers” in Ottawa or from her office on Yonge Street. I regret that I supported her at the ballot box. Never again.
Garth, I noticed that the choice of going Green was tied at second.
(1) Resign your seat – zero
(2) Negotiate back into caucus – 17
(3) Join the Liberals – zero
(4) Go Green – 17
(5) Stay independent – 31
Could you please tell us what you think overall of those results? Were you surprised?
Sorry Cameron I went on the website of the green party and could only stand it for 2 minutes and it made me puke thats as far as I got!
Quote]Funny how that is……I guess i got the wrong friends…
By John G on 10.21.06 8:24 pm
You said it John… Guess you do.:-}
In your world Cameron a guy who has too many bags of garbage at the end of his driveway is a criminal and should be punished. well not in my world a guy who has a few extra bags of garbage is a great consumer who is putting his money back into the economy.I personally have a whopping 7-9 bags a week with no blue or green boxes. We usually burn our cardboard once a week as well.
Garth. Glad to see you standing up for yourself. In our electoral system you vote for the MP, not the party, there are no party names on the balot. It is nice to see the person running is the same person after they are elected. While I am not in your riding, I would vote for you if I could. You would likely do ok by staying independent, but you could really help the green’s by being their first MP. It is wrong that a party that got over 1 million votes doesn’t even register in national politics.
We usually burn our cardboard once a week as well. By Gary V on 10.21.06 10:05 pm
Gary I hope you choke on the smoke it creates. I hope you were not being serious. Why would you not do your part by recycling? It is this kind of attitude of I am only one person and I don’t make a difference. You don’t have to be a green party member to recycle.
Dear Mr. Honourable Garth Turner
I was at the Town Hall meeting earlier today but left after your preamble and a few comments, with my 5 year son, so I did not get a chance to vote. If you like please add my vote to the 5th option:
STAY INDEPENDENT!
That would make 32 votes.
If you think you are in a pickle now, take a look at the “heat” Peter Mackay is about to face over the “dog” comment, that media attention should keep any unwanted media attention mostly off you if you choose to keep your head down for a while.
Good Luck, you have my FULLEST support
(so long as you don’t “flip” and turn Liberal Red on us!, don’t worry I am personally convinced that is not a real option for you.)
Best Wishes
It is a sad day when the party is so insecure that it can not listen and learn from a fellow member who has ideas which deviate from the party line as seen only by its dictatorial leader! I am glad you have spoken your mind as a Canadian, but it saddens me that the powers at be are so insecure that they can not listen to different ideas and thoughts than exactly their own. Keep up your good work on behalf of Canadians and your riding. My view is you sit as an independant until the next election and then run on a ticket as you see fit, perhaps an independant conservative if need be. I live near the London riding where a canidate Diane Hasket has been parachuted in to try and take the appointment to represent the riding. She has spent the last several years in the United States following the American Dream. Mr. Harper has set this one up to get an individual running in the by election who is as strict and unbending as himself. Let us never forget we have the right to free speech……..thanks for using it Garth.
No one MADE you irrelevant and inconsequential Turner. You ALWAYS WERE! Why do you think you never got a cabinet seat? Because you are an attention whore with a big mouth who couldn’t be trusted. You’re a former journalist which means you have an over-estimation of your own intellect and your own value. Journalists are all alike and you are no exception. You all believe the world revolves around you alone. I’m certain you are absolutely REVELLING in this lime light, playing the “hurt little innocent”. It’s going to be interesting to see how long you milk this for.
Also I got SUCH A KICK out of this statement!
“It is a humbling experience to stand before one’s electors, especially in a crisis”
A CRISIS!?!? Holy shit what an ego! You got suspended from caucus. But to hear you say it you would think a giant asteroid was about to strike the earth! Let’s examine Your CRISIS! Most of the voters in your riding didn’t vote for you. They voted for a number of OTHER parties. Still a greater number DID NOT VOTE AT ALL. So basically MOST of the people in your constituency probably won’t give a REAL shit about this a monthfrom now. But yet in your words IT’ A CRIIIIIISSSIIIIIS!
You’re an idiot.
The part about being humble is also a hoot. You’ve never been humble in your life so shut up. Take your lonley little indepedent seat and disappear.
John;Perhaps all your brilliant and successful friends who simply adore Steve are Corporate executives and Munitions Suppliers.
On the other hand, all my brilliant and successful friends who simply abhor Steve are labourers, clerks, Moms, bus drivers, nurses, etc.
You have it right John G, it doesn’t matter what Stephen Harper does – there are just some folks who want to find a rope to hang a dog.
He headed up the NCC which has defended Saskatchewan farmers who are jailed for the crime of selling their own wheat and as president of the NCC, he launched a court challenge to amendments to the Elections Act which limited freedom of speech…freedom of speech..sounds scary.
I read a letter to the editor in MacLeans magazine written by a woman in response to an article totally trashing Stephen Harper 2 years ago. She said that he wrote a letter outlining all of the important issues that needed to be established on the Quebec referendum question. Up to that point, the Liberals had done nothing. This letter became the basis for the Clarity Act which prevented our country from breaking up by the slimmest of margins. We all know who took credit for that.
But…I’m forgetting…he’s a nazi…worse he’s a westerner…he’s scary…he’s a closet member of the Bush family…his hair even looks American
What a load of crap.
So I don’t like that Garth is out. So it upsets me and I think he got a raw deal. So I agree with many of Garth’s concerns such as the David Emerson defection (even if he was the best man for the job).
The fact is that the CPC is in a minority situation. Unlike Garth, they have to make parliament work. Ideas like making Lebanese-Canadians pay their fare back to Canada would have this government hung, drawn and quartered by the Liberals, and the NDP. That kind of comment is just a cheap shot. PM Harper is even condemned when he calls 1800 katusha rockets, an unprovoked cross border attack killing Israeli soldiers and the kidnapping of 2 soldiers acts of war. Just what the hell would you call it?
We all know that it takes 2 to make an argument. It is very apparent that both sides bear responsibility for the present mess and should work to try to resolve the issue.
As for the rest of you, get a job.
Hello Garth!
I hope you make history by becoming the first Green MP in the House. You may not agree with the entire Green platform, but you share enough common ground to make it work. As a Green MP, you will still have an independent voice — but it will be considerably louder. And you will still do the same great job for your constituents that you are doing now. The question is: can you work with Elizabeth May? From your MPTV interview with her, I thought I saw the beginnings of a great team. I hope you join it!
I thought that just maybe you had some redeeming qualities and had been urging you not to burn your bridges. Having read your visited this web-site over the last few days however; My opinion has changed.
I am sorely offended by your treatment of Ms Ambrose (Gonad Deficiency) and am amazed at what passes here as political comment.
I know firsthand that you are deleting e-mails that are offensive to you and yet you take no such stand with remarks aimed at your party or fellow MP’s.
I see in you narcissistic sociopath trying his best to look like Michael Moore and with not one original thought to offer any of us.
I have no more time for you.
(a) “I am sorely offended by your treatment of Ms Ambrose (Gonad Deficiency).” Then you can’t read, since I said wrote she had performed well, had obtained the respect of caucus, and was impeccable in her person. Those were my only comments, and they were truthful. You certainly know “gonads” referred to the environmental plan, and not her. Truth, please.
(b) “I know firsthand that you are deleting e-mails that are offensive to you.” Anyone reading this blog and the hundreds of comments in recent days knows I do not shy away from criticism. But there have been two people, previously banned from this blog for the disruptive tactic of making five to 20 postings a day, who will remain banned. One new poster (Jerry) was suspended for one day for the same action – repeated and repetitive posts – rather than for content.
(c) “I have no more time for you.” Your choice. Adios. — Garth
Hey Garth!!
WHat’s happening with the nomination
process in Ajax-Pickering!! Is Rondo Thomas running again?? If he is ,the Conservative party is doomed!! This guy
needs to be exposed and investigated; he
is a total fraud!!The big guns in the CPC Party are incredibly blind and misguided;they turf the Garths yet endorse the Rondos!! Sad stuff!!
Folks, free speech is one thing, but, arrogance and back stabbing is another thing.
Take an example of married couple. Both have the same profession when they first married. After a short time, Spouse B gets a promotion. Spouse A feels slighted that Spouse B got a new job earning double than Spouse A and has more “prestige” and “influence”. Spouse A doesn’t tell Spouse B that is how he feels. However, at every opportunity and on his blog, Spouse A subtly writes and tells about private matters and slants the message to make Partner B look negative. Spouse B tries to quietly ask Spouse A to stop, because it’s hurting Spouse B’s career and reputation. However, Spouse A’s ego is bruised and Spouse A just continues. Spouse B comes to a decision that a seperation is needed.
This is how I, as a lay person, see this “Garth” matter. Garth, while I believe in the beginning wanted to a people’s MP, blew it when he excessively promoted himself as the only MP who should matter. I see it as Garth is Spouse A (from the example). His ego got bruised, and now he is undermining his colleagues and wanting to “scoop” any government news. The first “scoop” I thought was the Flarety budget in the spring. Then, I thought, ooh, ooh…. not good… we have a runaway mouth and ego. However, as time went on, Garth’s blog had more and more. Then, I thought, this is not good – Garth is cementing his future. If I were his conservative colleagues, I certainly wouldn’t trust him.
This SSM, that the media loves to bring up, is a non-starter. There are several MPs in government that support SSM. Baird and Moore are two such MPs in Mr. Harper’s administration that support SSM. If social conservatism is what Mr. Harper’s all about, then, why were they choosen to be in cabinet? Unfortunately, our mainstream media has become a National Enquirer, and can’t seem to write about anything intelligently.
Garth, if you are truly a conservative and want to be an MP that wants to bring about change, then, please take a chill pill, put your ego aside, and maturely negotiate your re-entrance back into the conservative caucus. Your ideas won’t really be heard in committee’s, etc. by sitting on the side lines as an independant. If not, then, maybe you should have remained a reporter and a critic. At least this way, you can write to your heart’s content, without the appearance of back-stabbing your colleagues.
BTW: some write about MPs that dissent from their party’s platforms and consensus – Walter Baker, Lloyd Francis, Nunziata, and even Sheila Copps. While they choose to stand firm on some issues that went against their own parties, they were and still are well respected by their (ex)colleagues. Except for Shiela, they were all back benchers and were not beligerant.
Anyway – these are my 2 cents in this “Garth” matter.
Catherine ,
Please try quality instead of quantity. How many times must a message be repeated before you believe the point has been made?
Put a sock in it already. You’re beginning to behave like a schmuckess.
Garth
Thank you for the TH meeting update. With the new interest in your blog alot of the regular anti-garth bloggers are being shut out. I noticed a few of them are getting very offensive and ultra-personal, it’s almost like a final desperate gasp for air. However the overwelming sense is that a great number of people have tuned into what you are doing and are supportive and very excited about this new way of doing democracy. I say stay as an independant right now and if or when you decide to go to another party ensure that you have the support of your riding. Again Best of Luck!!
Hi, Garth – I had the opportunity to participate in the Town hall (I was the guy in the red sweater in the back encouraging you to go Green).
One thing that I think is important to note is that the overall makeup of the folks who were in that room are likely not truly representative of the overall population who will vote in the last federal election.
I made a few observations…
- Age: probably about half over 50, about 40% between 40-50 and about 10% from 30-40.
- Close to 2/3 male.
- I didn’t see any black, South Asian, Oriental or other non-Caucasian faces.
While the 70 odd people jamming that little room certainly were very passionate, intelligent and articulate, it’s probably more close to the same demographic of those who sit in the House than that of the constituents of your riding. Just something to think about.
I also think that many of those who voted for you to stay independent, at the end of the day will come away considering putting your name on the ballot no matter what label is in brackets beside your name (except if it’s Liberal). I think you impressed a lot of people.
Garth, my apologies if I got you mixed with Sierra Club instead of Sierra Legal. Sierra Legal does comprise of Greenpeace and others, which have become too radical for my liking…. in the seventies, as a young person, I did support Greenpeace and later, when they started to ram ships, I lost respect for them. They are the same bunch, who oppose seal hunting. So, I have not much use them (Sierra Legal) either.
It’s amazing that people like Eric Walton only spews out a portion of the Kyoto accord. He misses the section of buying credits from “developing countries”, like China and India. Kyoto accord is flawed. Even if Canada wasn’t that much over their targets, Canada WOULD need to send money overseas to buy CO2 credits….
Carbon tax will most certainly increase the cost of foods… which will cause hardships for our low-income earners. I don’t think I would want to a party to that hardship. Would you?
The Green and the Sierras are very much against the oil producers – however, I don’t see them reducing their own consumption, as they fly all over the world…. Remember, we are living in a digital age – video conferences would be appropriate. They still purchase plastics. They still build big homes. They still purchase man made products (which use chemicals in their processing)…..
Now Garth, you stated that “We need a strategy made here, for us. We did not get it on Thursday. ” So what is your detailed plan? It’s easy to critisize, and say it’s not enough…..
I say that so far, Rona has delivered some concrete steps – transit tax credits is a start. Investment in bio-diesel is another. Investment in environmental friendly transit capital is yet another. Enforcing mandatory emissions through new and existing is yet another. She and the government realize that we do have a capitalist society and radicalization will cause you and everyone else to lose big time!
Catherine, as a regular here you know darn well the plan background and strategies that I have proposed – here, and here. — Garth
Some people have mentioned starting up a new party. That would be too much trouble. Instead you should make use of parties that are currently in existence. Coalitions are normally formed after an election. I am going to suggest that you attempt to form a coalition now of some of the existing parties that have some type of credible policies that Canadian voters would be willing to discuss.
John,
(Not sure which one you are by name, but I distinguish you by content that is markedly different than the other Johns). You are the first poster here over many months who has come close to being a kindred spirit, at least in this one very specific regards (though I may disagree with much of the policy and commentary that you have subsequently included in your post – please leave policy formulation to the proposed party). There is a party in the US called the “American Reform Party†(not to be confused with Ross Perot’ “Reform Partyâ€) that, from what I can tell, operates more as a framework rather than as a real party. It has an established set of ideals and criterion, then goes from riding to riding, endorsing the best candidate from the core parties who represents those ideals, a Republican here, Democrat there. All representatives have agreed to set aside divisive issues, social and the like, and concentrate instead on what is best in terms of the nuts-and-bolts running of the country. I heard an interview with a party representative a while back, prior to discovering this site, and thought that that would probably best represent my own ideal. I don’t know if it could work here, given the differences between the US electoral system and our own, but I if it could be jerry-rigged to do so, I would gladly offer it my measly vote. An Independent, say Mr. Turner for example, would fit in well and would be a real contributor to policy.
Catherine,
Well I’m glad that at least one person is getting back to the normal business and affairs of this site. I posted the following many links ago to Jerry, to see if he could provide me with a more comprehensive picture of future petroleum production projections than I was able to find. Since I haven’t heard back, I’ve made use of the material I was able to find and drew my own conclusions from it. One on point we have consistently agreed, that being on conservation issues. I would welcome you or anyone else to comment and offer credible dispute because the picture it paints is not favourable.
First the original post:
Jerry (aka “Man of Many Linksâ€),
I know you’ll be out there at some point, so I have a question for you.
I have been searching for a link that projects just when peak petroleum production is expected to occur within this country. I’ve found a couple of projections from the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers to 2020 which suggest a plateau just beyond that date.
http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&dt=NTV&e=PDF&dn=103586
http://www.capp.ca/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=1169
The government itself is less optimistic, and at least from a natural gas perspective and not gross petroleum output, expects declines to occur after 2011.
http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/govrel/news.cfm?story=51281
Then there’s these projections listed at Wikipedia (I don’t know their ultimate source), which I present at risk of disdain from one of the John’s, that seem to mimic the CAPP projections, with levelling (and subsequent decline) occurring just beyond 2020.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves#Canada
The Hubbert curves suggest that once peak has been attained, it is held for only a few years after which the drop-off is fairly steady, in bell-curve fashion.
http://energybulletin.net/primer.php
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/hubbert/energypower/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hubbert_world_2004.png
Do you have any sources that project production beyond the 2020 timeframe?
Now my conclusions:
I asked for the production projections for 2 reasons, which I will get to after providing some background. The Hubbert production curve follows the standard Normal Distribution shape found time and again in natural phenomena, and based on the shape of the historical petroleum production curve, I saw what appears to be the first half of that Normal shape, suggesting that the second – and more deleterious – half would subsequently follow. I wish I could post an image for you here to examine since it would immediately and visually make my point apparent, but I can’t. So, I invite you to try this experiment for yourself. Take either the CAPP petroleum production image at:
http://www.capp.ca/raw.asp?x=1&dt=NTV&e=PDF&dn=103586
or this image which appears to be essentially the same thing:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Canadian_Oil_Production_1960_to_2020.png
Now, assuming peak production is reached at 2025, which those curves suggest, draw a vertical axis at that date, take a mirror image of the original graph, then rotate it about the axis and join it to the first half so that you have the full production bell curve. You will find that at 2025, peak production is reached at 5 M bbl/day, followed by a decline to roughly 2 M bbl/day by 2050, or a reduction in production by 60%.
Points
First – and I’ve had this conversation before with respect to alternate fuels like hydrogen – is because, if the above is a realistic projection, then I think serious effort is required now to be ready in an mere 20 years for declining petroleum production. In previous conversations I suggested that government should be investing in research through the NRC, universities and the like, to which Jerry had countered that it should all be privately funded but hadn’t found links to show that such funding is in fact taking place.
Now for my second point. With the peak production at 5 M bbl/day at 2025, and a decline to roughly 2 M bbl/day by 2050 (60% reduction), I coincidentally see a remarkable parallel to the
Conservative environmental plan. It calls for hard caps on greenhouse gas to come into place by 2025, with greenhouse gas production to be reduced by 65% in 2050. From this, it would seem to me that the industry consultations have resulted in a plan that would not take much effort to subscribe to: merely follow the status quo and do nothing, watching emission reductions take place in concert with production reductions.
So, now please take this apart and show me what mistakes I have made.
Dube has had exactly the same thought that I had — the targets for greenhouse gase reductions match the overall predicted decline in production of fossil fuels due to geologic scarcity. How convenient.
It’s a problem that is starting soon, however. Peak oil and natural gas production will likely overtake greenhouse gases / climate change as a political concept within a year or two.
Long before 2050 there just won’t be enough natural gas in this country to go around. It will be a very pressing issue especially in the winter within the next 5 years.
Garth, another Green supporter here.
I think you should join the Green Party, and improve the Canada’s democracy in doing so. Your riding will support you no matter what party you run for, and you can improve all of Canada by giving a new progressive party an incalculable boost.
Below are two excerpts from a recent post.
First:
“When we vote in Canada, it is unclear whether we are
voting for the party – as your critic claims he did -
or if it is the individual person whom we are electing
to represent us in office.”
And the second:
“I personally believe we vote for the the person and
not the party, so I have no issue with you joining a
new party. That being said, I understand that others
simply vote for the party with complete disregard for
an individuals capabilities.”
By Rob on 10.21.06 7:04 pm
Some people vote for the “party” and others vote for the “candidate.” That’s a common assumption, but is it factually true? Let’s see what a review of the ballot that we use reveals.
If it was required or expected of the electorate to vote for a party, then it follows logically that it should only be necessary to list the various parties on ballots. It would be a cost-effective universal ballot that could be used across the country. BUT THAT’S NOT THE CASE, and instead 308 separate and different ballots are printed. Each lists the candidates by name only. Nowhere does a party name appear on ballots. Technically then and IN EFFECT, one votes for the candidate and not the party. I believe a court of law would agree.
When voters marked ballots beside Garth Turner’s name, they endorsed Garth (by virtue of majority) and gave him a mandate to represnt in parliament ALL constituents of Halton. Under the present electoral system, a vote for a candidate is by extension also a vote for a party. Nevertheless some cling to the mistaken notion that they voted for “the party” and not for the candidate. But saying something is so, doesn’t make it so.
Garth has been expelled only from caucus. He remains a Member of Parliament and continues to capably represent his constituents. As an Independent and in possession of a “mandate” he is free to join another party unconditionally. It is not incumbent on Garth to resign, or to ask for a “new” mandate in a by-election, or respond to silly demands of the ignorant.
Only the ill-informed will fail to understand that Garth has conducted himself ethically in this matter, as in all other.
Garth, I’m so sorry that Cheka is distressed and commiserate with Dorothy and yourself.
Garth, we’d love to see you join the Greens. Hopefully your constituents will seriously entertain the notion.
Cheers.
Garth Turner ought to go Green to get even
I’m one Liberal who decided to go Green in federal elections.
Garth Turner should go Green too, because it’s his best revenge against Harper after he was dumped from the Conservative party for having an independent blog. It was a potentiall…
While I’m not a scientist, I try to have common sense and have an appreciation for the environment before it became a fad. I know that government cannot blink and make more fuel sources nor make the natural effects of productions be clean. All the government can do is legislate and divert our tax dollars to R&D investments in alternative fuels or technologies to clean our land, air, and water. It is upto us, the people, who take personal efforts to provide a cleaner future for our children. This would include our purchasing habits and our living habits (which I have enumerated several times).
Now, Garth is highly critical of Ms Ambrose’s proposal. I would like to see a side by side comparison of his plan and her plan.
Garth’s plan:
a climate change action plan that audits national carbon dioxide emissions and reports to us with truthfulness.
- A system of permission-based emissions for industry that will contain or reduce growth unless new technologies are used
- Clean water and clean air legislation that mean business
- Endangered species protection and realistic animal rights
- Substantial consumer incentives to change behaviour and buying habits, from hybrid car subsidies to GST rebates on energy-efficient new homes to grants for telecommuting equipment.
- A national nuclear policy
- A climate change action plan budget of at least $2 billion a year, financed in part by the sale of emission permits.
- Public education action plan aimed at changing habits, curbing consumption, diversting waste protecting resources. I will be publishing a Citizen’s Guide of this nature next month.
- An environmental bills of rights, or the inclusion of environment rights in the Charter. The consequences of this alone would be historic.
The only thing that I can see that Ms. Ambrose didn’t include was the Charter thing…. Which it really doesn’t actually help clean the environment – it’s just another man-made feel good statement.
A Conservative Party fundraiser called me yesterday to ask for a renewed contribution. I had fun telling him to pound salt since the CPC had ejected you.
This comment isn’t going to surprise you, Garth. I would just like to add my name to the pool of people who want you to join the Greens.
You call yourself populist, and I’m certainly not going to argue that you aren’t. But keep in mind that, although your constituents are the most important, you also have a responsibility to every citizen of this nation, as well as of the world. We all do. Would joining the Green Party further their causes?
Mr. Turner,
You are a breathe of clean, fresh air in the dingy realm of closed door modern politics. Weither or not you join us as a Green Party Member or not, you have my salute as a person who still treats constituents as important. Thank-You!
Garth,
I find it appalling that you were kicked out of the CPC.
I think that you can keep the support of your constituents by remaining independent until the next election (it will likely be in the spring anyway). If at that point you decide that the Green Party is a match for you, and you are a match for them, then the voters can decide if they still want to elect YOU, the person that they elected before. Remember, they didn’t elect a conservative, they elected a person who was a member of the CPC. We don’t vote for the party in Canada, we vote for the person – and from what I’ve read, your constituents support YOU.