So, I guess we might be a few inches closer this morning. The finance minister has committed himself to thinking about income-splitting for seniors. That may not sound like a lot but, man, it’s more than I got out of him two weeks ago.
At that time I was an actual living member of the Conservative caucus, and hosted a national conference on the topic attended by reps of over two million pensioners – and more than 30 MPs from all parties. I had lobbied my colleagues on the issue several times within caucus, delivered hand-inscribed invitations to all of them, and given Flaherty a report recommending the change. Despite that, he told the media just before my conference started that it was “not a high priority.â€
Well, maybe it still isn’t. But at least Jim Flaherty had to talk about it in QP, then walk out the door and get scrummed on it by the hungry hounds of the fourth estate. In Ottawa this makes it an issue. A thing with legs. It managed to escape out of the caucus room where it was being held prisoner, and flee like a feral creature into the real world. Just like me.
In any case, I am delighted for all the people who have been working hard to achieve this basic tenet of tax fairness that the minister has respectfully gone on the record. Now he has a benchmark to meet, having said it is a “worthy†thing and that his finance minions will be crunching numbers. Expectations have been risen, and the odds that overtaxed seniors will eventually get a break are mounting. It is simply wrong that good people who lived by the rules of their time should be penalized. With all of a couple’s income flowing through the hands of one person, they are taxed disproportionately to a two-income household making exactly the same amount. Everybody knows this is wrong, and yet it has been relentlessly ignored.
I’m happy too that my newly-minted Indie status helped. As I mentioned to you yesterday, I was able to ask Flaherty about this in the cold, hard national glare of question period, simply because I am no longer a Tory. I had tried in the past, as a member of caucus, to do the same thing, but was rebuffed.
In fact – come to think of it – have you ever heard a Conservative MP in the last nine months ask a question that was not written by a staffer working for the minister being questioned? Of course you haven’t.
Well, lots more to come, dear voters. I have decided, for example, to carry on with my finance work even though I have had my tosh removed from the all-party finance committee by the Chief Government Whip, Jay Hill (hill.j@parl.gc.ca). So I’ll be tabling a report in the House in a few weeks on changes we need to see in the tax system, in the way we encourage people to save for retirement, in how we treat families in terms of income tax, and what we ought to be doing about capital gains and a few other issues.
I plan on speaking in the House more often, now that I don’t need to ask permission every time. I’ll be breathing life back into those private member’s bills that had to be abandoned due to caucus rules. And I plan on wasting less time with other politicians in Ottawa, and more time in communities listening to what people want Ottawa to do. Then it will be my pleasure to bring that back, and promote it in the House, one-on-one to other MPs, to the media, on this blog and on wall of the men’s room just outside the main foyer, if that helps. I know exactly where to write it.
Point is, who better than an Indie to go and help Canadians achieve the kind of changes they desire? For the first time, I have no political bosses to suck up to, or avoid the displeasure of. There is no party dictating that I don’t deviate from policy, no matter the situation or no matter if it’s wrong. There are no communications cops preventing me from promoting a cause people support.
Sure, I have given things up. The opposition lounge just behind the gold curtains, for example, really sucks compared to the government one. Too narrow, jammed with three parties instead of one, no windows. My seat, as you know, holds up the entire east wall of the chamber (but I don’t mind. No bad seat in the House of Commons), and I have heard rumours the Chief Government Whip (did I mention how you can reach him?) is getting ready to toss me out of my nice office, which will mean tearing apart the MPtv studio I built there at my own expense. Maybe I will get that office with the rats, after all!
But, what the hell? Two million retired people who pay too much tax just got a few inches closer to fairness. Good day. More to come.
40 comments ↓
Take it easy Garth, You hit those donkys on the head too often and they will sit down on their duffs and not carry ANY load. So to speak. They whon’t know how because the leader whon’t let them.
overtaxed seniors
How are seniors more over-taxed than the rest of us? Sounds more like pandering to a vote-rich demographic than sound fiscal policy. In fact, everyone made such a fuss about how the GST tax cut did nothing for productivity. Well, giving a tax advantage to retirees hardly scores high on the productivity meter either. I guess getting re-elected is a higher priority.
“It managed to escape out of the caucus room where it was being held prisoner”.
And you know all about things “escaping” from the caucus room………don’t you Mr. Turner?
Garth,
Has it ever occured to you that you might get more respect if you stopped blowing out so many sorry bubbles?
Garth – Watched repeat of Question Period on CPAC this morning and was struck by one thing…the partisan posturing by the mainstream parties during QP (in which nothing much was produced except hot air), versus the civilized tone between yourself and Jim Flaherty. That’s the advantage of the Independent. Too bad we don’t have 308 Independents…maybe a lot more would get accomplished in Parliament. Stay independent!
I really hope they do not move your office Garth. I also think that the Conservatives are just as interested in having you out of the press for a while. If they move your office, make sure you have a camera crew documenting it, and the disruption it causes.
Welfare for seniors….GREAT! Hell Garth you not only have a way of driving wedges between yourself and your fellow MPs, you are also discovering how do to it with generations of Canadians. Congratulations, another stellar achievement for Ego Man!!
At least the Rats won’t kick you out for talking about them.
I see the future of tax spliting being tied up with the same sex marriage debate and news coverage. The media will find it better to talk and write about sex then doing the right thing, hounding the government until the people get the answers they deserve from the government.
And which 2 million retired people, who pay too much tax are these?
Those, that earn 13,000$;
or those, that are like John Roth (ex Nortel CEO), who had no problem accepting over 100 MILLION in bonus the same year when thousands of his employees were being laid off?
Well the 13000$’s don’t pay tax to be bothered – they need to have their OAS increased more than the 2%. These pensioners would come from your waitresses, labourers, etc.
The pensioners, who earn 3,000 – 4,000 a month (that’s 36,000 to 48,000) are not the ones that I personally worry about! And these pensioners would come from all levels of governments, Bell Canada’s, investment bankers, etc.
Hey garth just watched Anerica Freedom to fascism. Google video on the income tax, I recall that our income tax wasn’t legal and was only brought in to help cover the war. So since the US IRS is cheating the people down south how do I know that our Government isn’t doing the same to us? Even with the supreme court says its not legal but they still charge people with tax fraud. The lower courts refuse to allow supreme court decisions in the lower court’s, calling them irrelevant. Hard to trust someone that hides and doesn’t answer your questions…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198&q=freedom+to+fascism
To Mr Jay Hill:
Please do not waste any of MY taxpayer dollars to move Mr. Turner into another office just so that you can please the egos of yourself and the poli-sci weenies who make up the PMO. It is MY money (or at least my 2 cents of it) not yours – please remember that. I would rather you spent the funds on something more useful.
Thank you.
As this issue grows, one can only wonder if the governing party will be wise enough to adopt it as sensible fiscal policy that voters will be extremely happy about- before the opposition does.
I respect you for saying what you mean and for representing your constituents. It’s a good idea to stay close to your community and keep an ear to the ground. The rest is politics. Not a great system right now.
You will get a lot of support for this one, Garth. Just remember though, you can get a lot more cooperation by being respectful and using discretion rather than ranting against the government. Just my two cents worth.
Aha! Reading your blog today makes me suspect that you had this all planned for quite a long time now. (He says with tongue firmly in cheek…)
For a politics watcher it just doesn’t get any better than this.
Gripping stuff, Garth. Don’t weaken now! If what you said is true yesterday and lately there have been over a half million hits a day on your blog (50K normal avg, now lately at least 10x that) then there are a lot of people paying attention. That’s a lot of voters and could be why the Government is going to take you VERY seriously.
I love it.
Garth,
Everybody is overtaxed and not just the seniors. I do not mean any disrespect for our senior level citizens but ….its tough earning a living here……when there are very few jobs….being created in Ontario unlike Alberta because of the oil industry boon.
Small business professionals are constantly looking for tax breaks because of the risks and difficulties of generating a business. They also generate a large portion of jobs in Canada not the US multinationals that are hiring south of the border and in Asia.
Maybe you can tackle the tax issue not just for seniors but for everybody…including couples that do not have children……I tell you its not fair that people in Ontario especially in Toronto pay the highest amount of taxes in Canada.
I do hope you can champion the issue of tax imbalance regarding our province…its not fair…..that we pay a large portion of taxes out of this province…………and get very little in return resulting in a rich province of ours not even able to invest in infracture such as TTC subway extensions that are badly needed for Toronto in order to connect the 905 areas…….Lets face it the jobs are in West of Toronto or North of Toronto……with very little downtown except for services – Banks, Insurance Ad agenices, retailers entertainment.
A tiny country such as Singapore is currently building a subway line to modernize the country………its a vast project……to ensure that people can travel freely and not depend on expensive automobiles……they have been far more aggressive in the project than our governments that seem preoppied with low priority issues…..rather than economic health, corporate investment, research and development and secondary education.
They are also very aggressive about pollution and environment where they have a reputation of fining people for leaving chewing gum on the sidewalk.
I think the real people getting screwed are the university students….its disgraceful that our politicians are not allowing us to invest in secondary education while these kids can’t find jobs here once they graduate. I chatted with a young fellow yesterday from Montreal he has huge debts…been trying to get a job in his field IT electronics for one year. I told him its a very specialized field and that he should be prepared to take a job in the U.S.
The best and the brightest will go the the United States. Make no mistake about that…especially with huge debts of $40K to $60K plus…
This is disgraceful and it is immoral.
The report written by Rae I do not support…..its easy for him to say…..he lives in one of the richest areas of Toronto…ROSEDALE………….
It is also unfair that University students in Quebec pay less tuition than Ontario Students. This is not fair and not democractic……..
Lets make the tax system fair for everybody including students and small business professionals who are generating jobs for this country.
Re: Overtaxed Seniors.
The problem only aplies to those seniors who grew up in the age old day of the man earning all the income and the wife staying at home, and before the advent of the Spousal RRSP. All pension income for these people is taxed to the one person. So while he may get an sposal tax reduction, the remaining income will end up with a higher marginal rate than if the income were split between the two.
Sposes of today have the option of saving to promote income splitting at retirement to reduce their tax burden.
As for contacting Mr. J. Hill to voice our displeasure over your removal from the Finance Committee (your probably more qualified than Flaherty who didn’t know the difference between a deficit and balanced budget in Onatrio), or your loss of good office space…he’s only following SH’s orders!!!
You will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, Garth. Just saying’.
Morning Mr. Turner:
Halifax newspaper, this morning, carried your article regarding Income Splitting. Nice to see someone in Ottawa is thinking of making things better for seniors. Keep up the good work and if you get this passed we may even vote come the next election.
John
Halifax, NS
There’s no office on the side of the building your office currently occupies that isn’t infested with rats if you know what I mean. I watched in despair a few days ago as my MP Helena Geurgis was forced to read an incipid saccarine coated pre written bio of the sordid rags to riches Horiato Alger story of one Peter MacKay. I was embarassed for her since to date her only accomplishment has seemed to be her dating of Rahim Jafer making them the ‘it couple’ in Ottawa. Oh well I suppose it’s one more line in the CV. If possible in the future perhaps you could move to Simcoe South and run in my riding. Keep up the good work, Sic Semper Tyrannus.
Garth keep up the good work as an independent! I only hope my MP will support and work for the change in capital gains tax so that as long as the returns are reinvested with in the year no capital gains has to be paid on stocks or real-estate investments. Jim
In my eight years of advocating for pension splitting, and finding governments generally uncaring and unresponsive to the idea, MP Garth Turner is like a breath of fresh air.
His question yesterday to Finance Minister Flaherty asking for a commitment to pension splitting was simple and to the point.
Unfortunately Mr. Flaherty’s answer was not to the point, or at least not to the right point. Though Mr. Turner specified pension splitting, Mr. Flaherty did not, but rather income splitting, which includes working income. Anybody familiar with the pension splitting issue knows, and is very sensitive to, the difference. Pension splitting advocates are very careful to point out the extra reasons to justify pension splitting over and above those for general income splitting.
Also, Mr. Flaherty mentioned the recent doubling of the Pension Income Credit (line 314 of the tax return), as though to show that his government is helping the situation. Not only is that peanuts compared to the tax penalty paid by people who are asking for pension splitting, it actually makes a bit *worse*, for many people the unfair tax differential which pension splitting is meant to eliminate.
But the minister’s answer is promising all the same. All the better if we get general income splitting. We can only hope that if they conclude, as past governments have, that its cost to the revenue department is too high to implement, they will accept the compromise of pension splitting, with its much lower and undeniably feasible price tag.
Please see http://www.pensionsplitting.ca for more information.
Frank Stokes,
President, Canadian Activists for Pension Splitting (CAPS)
YOU ARE A NATURAL INDIE
BY WORKING THROUGH THE GOVT YOU MAINTAIN A LEADERSHIP ROLL
TRY TO GET YOUR NEW SEAT MATES TO GET AN ENVIRONMENTAL BILL IN FRONT OF A COMMITTEE SO IT CAN BE IMPROVED AND MOVE ALONG
THAT WAY YOU WILL BE A POSITIVE BUT INDEPENDENT FORCE
PS I MISS YOU DAILY NEWS SUMMARY
Well it’s been a few days since you kicked Garth out without knowing you were doing it. I am delighted that he has not rolled over and died (or cried).
I am a senior. I have been a Conservative all my life. Well, for a few years the party disappeared, but I didn’t. I stand for common decency (at least it used to be common). And I guess Garth was a bit of a nuisance, what with him having his own opinions, not like Rona.
But I loved him for that. And I love a party that is strong enough to allow opinions. I think that is important in a Democracy.
And I’m watching to see how he is treated, along with how seniors and their pensions are treated. It’s wonderful that it finally is getting dicussed!
Three Cheers for Garth.
Pat, Nelson BC
Dear Garth,
When I heard you were tossed out of caucus, I was a bit angry at you. I am a Tory through and through and I recall Edmund Burke when he said: “I was elected by the people of Bristol to represent Britain.” But now I realize that only independents who think locally, act nationally such as yourself can best represent our country.
We have a whipped caucus with a west-first attitude. The Liberals are a whipped caucus with a Quebec-first attitude. Nobody is talking about the national interest. I am seriously thinking about my vote for the first time in awhile. Garth, I hope you will go Green so you can give them a voice in the debate. But only if they don’t muzzle you. If I lived in your riding, I would vote for you hands down.
No one can eat the tax elephant in one bite and I agree that we are all over taxed but I would suggest that a good place to start the fairness process would be with those 2 million seniors being allowed to pension split.
Keep up the good work Garth and when can we get a copy of your report to the House?
Garth, keep up the good work.
REDUCE TAX.
We are very disappointed that the Conservative party has kicked one of their MP’s “Garth Turner” out of the party. Mr. Turner may have may some mistakes, for example by releasing confidential information to the public or other parties through his blogg or other sources. However, Mr. Turner is only doing the right thing for his constituents by speaking out about issues he sees as wrong and that the rest of the party refuses to listen too or consider for the benefit of the constituents. Far too many MP’s are just puppet’s to their party leaders by voting the way that the party leader wants them to vote and by not speaking out against their own party leaders. Mr. Garth is the type of MP that many of us would want as us our MP to represent us speaking out to represent his constituents and NOT the party leader.
Has the party leaders forgotten the defination of Democracy – Being asked our opinion so that others can decide is not an example of democracy . . . Nor is voting a sign of democracy in the politicial process. Voting for choices that we did not determine, established by processes that we did not choose, is not democratic. We canot call a process democratic unless there has been widespread participation in every phase, from researching and gathering information, considering alternatives, and deciding which direction to go, to implementing the decision. Democracy means active participation in all aspects of the process by all those affected by the decision.
Maybe what is needed is more Independant MP’s that would be loyal to their constituents, NOT their party leaders or the PM. Many MP’s are just a waste of tax dollars for their constituents because they just sit in the back benches and say nothing for fear of upsetting their party leader or the PM. It’s no wonder why many people consider the government and especially the political process to be unethical and corrupt nd therefore are not willing to spend the time to vote during the elections as all the parties seem to be just a corrupt as the others. This is why Independant MP’s would better serve their constituents.
Hello Mr. Turner.
I would like to express my support for income splitting. I taught high
school for 33 years while my wife stayed home to raise our seven
children. Now she has a very limited income in spite of the fact that
she contributed as much to the growth and well being of this country as
anybody I know. As a couple we are stuck with a very high tax rate
because it all levied on my pension.
Oh my goodness, 25 responses and no Greenies within miles. It’s about time we get back to business. I did however take the chance to look at there platform however, and I must say that besides 1 or 2 great environmental issues the rest is just, well you know.
Hi Garth,
First I’d like to say thanks for courage and commitment to your constituents. I’m a 30 year old from Cambridge and in my 12 years of voting I have never had an MP that put constituents before the party. I hope to hell it rubs off.
Anyway, I was wondering if you have considered selling democracy themed Garth T-shirts? It may be a good way to raise some funds as winning your riding next election will be crucial to fighting MP lapdogitis in Canada.
Keep up the good work, and thanks for giving us some hope.
AS
Cambridge, Ont
Hi Garth, thanks for taking a straight-forward approach to representation.
You mentioned the Conservative Party has coached top beaurocrats and restricted committee access, as well as attempting to politicize the supposedly non-partisan committees.
This strikes me as the beginnings of a one-party dictatorship. To extrapolate, when one changes or influences the very roots of the parliamentary system it leaves open the opportunity to alter the fundamentals of the parliamentary system without public input or awareness. The press is stiffled in its attempts to gain information from the government. The public is in the dark.
We need you and others, both MPs and beaurocrats to help us be aware.
Just a note on latin from the earlier quote in the post:
sic semper tyrannus
“Thus always to tyrants.”
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannus;
Thus death always comes to tyrants.
It appears your thoughts regarding the ‘house price bubble’ may be immanent. Earlier this morning, Matt Drudge had his infamous siren going, with this headline and link:
“Sales of existing homes fell for 6th month in September, with median price dropping by record amount…. “
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/25/D8KVN3000.html
First para…
Sales of existing homes fell for a sixth straight month in September and the median sales price dropped on an annual basis by the largest amount on record, further documenting a lukewarm housing market.
I wonder what the consequences of this will be? Possibly a recession through the next year or so?
Draft:
Dear (Blue) Jay,
I was NOT bargaining on morphing into an ineffective, unconvincing, outraged or ashamed Party Appolgist!
Therefore, I STRONGLY recommend that you and your collegues seriously work on your skills as ‘Strategists’(eye-brows raised).
Please reinstate MP Turner to the inclusive Commons Finance Committeee immediately! Mr. Turner, as you fully know, is a highly acclaimed and respected financial analyst, who works diligently on that committee, in the interests of sound financial policy, his constituents, canadian voters at large, other MP members of the committee, AND CPC party policy.
Further, perhaps it would be wise and prudent to save yourself the effort, disruption, and expected media attention in relocating his Parliament Office, as it is HIGHLY unlikely to have any bearing WHATSOEVER on his active engagement with the public in the democratic process.
Your Faithful Servant,
(xxx)
CPC Member,
Memer AT LARGE, (xxx)EDA,
(xxx) Constituent,
Canadian Voter,
Free Speech Activist.
From the CBC…
“Justice John Gomery says the sponsorship inquiry recommendations have fallen into a “black hole” because the Conservatives have not acted on any of them.”
Then PM Martin had the balls to call the inquiry but it looks like the current PM /Mule Skinner doesn’t have the balls to act on them. I guess all that indignation at the time was just for the TV cameras.
So Frank, you must be on a full pension – that would mean your annual income would be:
Teacher’s average pension (70% of 70,000) 49,000
PLUS CPP 10800
PLUS OAS 6000
EQUALS 65,800 or about $5,500 per month!
You and your wife probably qualify for full health and dental benefits too.
Now compare that to a waitress or a labourer pension, if any at all. They would earn a percentage of CPP and the OAS and maybe a few thousand a year from their RRSP (if they were able to scrimp on their low income salary).
Nope can’t feel sorry for you Frank – I feel more sorry for those in low income brackets, struggling to eat. But, hey – I’m a conservative!
“Nope can’t feel sorry for you Frank – I feel more sorry for those in low income brackets, struggling to eat. But, hey – I’m a conservative!”
Ummm Catherine…you must have me confused with someone else…I was just posting a link on Harper’s inaction on the Gomery inquiry.
I was responding to “By Frank on 10.25.06 10:08 am” – are there 2 of you?
It’s your lucky day Catherine…there appears to be two…double the pleasure…double the fun….