As I mentioned yesterday in Ottawa, I will be in London later today knocking on a few doors in my old neighbourhood for Elizabeth May, the Green Party candidate in the hotly-contested by-election now raging in that city. Does this mean I am endorsing the Greens, and will likely move my plastic shopping bags full of homeless MP scraps to her house soon?
Nah, does not. May is simply, in my view, the best candidate in that riding and deserves to win. She should be the first Green MP in the House of Commons, and we desperately need more voices arguing for a sound climate change strategy for Canada.
Besides, her main opponent – former London mayor, anti-gay prominent and recently US Republican worker Dianne Haskett – has been lviing under a PMO bucket for the entire contest, which does not bode well for the people of London if she makes MP. This, despite a “media availability” yesterday in which she managed to say nothing.
In any case, I will bang on some doors, scare some cats, and do what I can for democracy.
In the meantime, I hope you have some time today to read through the 300+ comments this site attracted yesterday on the subject of party politics in Canada and my exit from the Tories. I hope this is the start of an ongoing discussion we sorely need.
As always, daily news headlines are available here. Garth.ca does not pretend to be a news service, but some effort is made to spot the stories which may have political legs, or which junkies just need to know. Our morning referral service, NewsDay, is available Mondays through Fridays.
And check out the daily original video content, produced by our crack squadrom of MPtv producers, editors, technicians, writers, chase producers, sound guys and encoding experts. Okay, so his name is Bruce – but he’s cool. MPtv is online with new stuff, every weekday.
161 comments ↓
Hey Garth
Been reading your blog off and on now for quite some time. I enjoy what you have to say and really get a belly laugh from the not so friendly neighbor hood trolls. However, I also noticed that you have banned Catherine. Now most of her writing is non sensical and pure buffalo chip material, but I felt it was a good reminder of what the parties are like in this country these days. Arrogant, obstenate and very uncaring to opposing views. Not to mention that the parties have very severe reactions to anybody that has the intestinal fortitude to voice an opinion of their own, even if it does go against the grain of the party leaders. You are a prime example of what I’m talking about.
I’m not saying she didn’t deserve to get the boot. Her writing is most times vindictive and screams of party spin management which lead me to believe she is someone in the caucus. However, I feel that to ban her will only give the spind doctors something to scream about and the other trolls here will be able to say you are just as bad as SH because you’re now censuring your site.
Just an opinion Garth. Personally, I would have done it ions ago and not just her. But then again, I’m not a politician
“Catharine” went over the top last night, and posted a few comments that were patently incorrect and completely ad hominen. Yeah, she could well be a PMO operative (not the only one on the site, for sure), and I’m happy to let her back on, but only on a comment-by-comment basis. This is a free speech zone, not a trainwreck. — Garth
Hello again Garth
Sorry for double posting, but there were two seperate issues I wanted to cover and didn’t want the two together and confuse the trolls.
On to the meat of my second issue. At present, I am trying to find someone to run as an independent MP for this riding. If it weren’t for the fact that I hate politics and have too many skeletons threatening to break down the closet door, I would give it a go. But mainly, I just dont have any experience in politics and I am sure that if I could sucker enough people to vote for me and by some miracle win a seat, I would only be tripping over my own dinga-ling every time I opened my mouth. However, with your contacts and experience, I was thinking that maybe you might know someone in this riding, Bowmanville, which has what it takes to run as an independent and would actually be able to stand up for us, the voters. I would be willing to participate in a campaign for such a person and even contribute some of my meager earnings. (Even if I can’t get the tax credit for it)I must add that I am not looking to help a snake in the grass, a fox in the henhouse and whatever other expression may be applied to politicians that, for all intents and purposes, is deaf,dumb and blind. What Canadian voters need now are politicians that care enough to have the big brass ones to actually do something for the people that they represent. You have my e-mail. I hope, wish, cross my fingers, knock on wood and anything else that would help, that you know someone of this type for this area. Thanks Garth
Garth – have you read the Ottawa Sun today? There is an editorial regarding your tenure and end of tenure with the CPC. It is written with candor and looks at you from more than one angle. It is worth checking.
On another subject, I do not believe that Catherine is a PMO operative. From what I have seen, the PMO has remained silent. There are other contributors who are equally, if not more, abusive than her but they remain alive on this blog.
Here’s an interesting story in today’s online edition of Macleans.ca http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/national/article.jsp?article=2006_11_14_1163543679
As I have said here a few times, I knew some media types would be disappointed with my comments yesterday on Parliamentary reform, because all they want is inside dirt on Harper. Well, tough. Getting good MPs is a lot more important for Canadians than crapping on The Big Guy. If there was any media hype over my statement it was media-created, since all I did was post a one-sentence notice of the event.
Garth the self-promoter? Maybe. Media the self-fulfilling prophecy? Priceless. — Garth
in reference to Catherine……it is not just Catherine…..but the tone of people in Toronto ….people have become nasty……this has become..an accepted way………of socializing in Toronto without any consideration for others………
Everyone should have respect for one another……I have sent some rather terse letters in the Past….I have Called Ms Ambrose Miss Pollution and Miss Asthmas……..because…..I feel the points is valid…..thousands of people in Ontario are dying of Air Pollution…..not to mention that Our health care system will become more costly……..which means more taxes for healthcare and less on education…….
The point being is this….if these people want to share their views….be nice…..you do not have to agree with us…..but a least we are giving you a chance to be heard in this blog…….
I dare you to write a letter to your MP your MPP or the Prime Minister who would simply delete your comments….
I have no regrets regarding my comments concerning Ms. Ambrose…..there is just too much bullshit out therre….and frankly I was embarassed as a Canadian Citizen……proud Canadian that these people were taking over the Environment to follow their low scale environment agenda and dictating to the rest of the world that Environment is not important…….
Totally embarassing to all Canadians who are concerned about environment and most of all want to represented by people who are suppose to represent the best interests of all Canadians…..
…been thinking about my party membership in Halton. I think I will keep it.
Next candidate selection meeting, I will vote for Darcy Keene. It would be a great way to subvert any hope (no matter how remote) of Halton electing another Conservative in the next election.
I’m sure that will make Charles McVety happy, if no one else.
Garth,
I wonder if you are using a Government BlackBerry for this blog?…
I am sitting at my home computer now, purchased with my own few coins and glued into a connection financed as part of my home budget. You got a point, or just being a dork? — Garth
One rationale for taxing income trusts is to pay for other election promises such as the GST cuts. Here is what one article has to say:
…
“No serious economist would endorse cutting the GST. Reducing a value-added tax does not encourage effort, does not promote saving and does not increase productivity.”…
So what are you doing Mr. Flaherty?
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1163544612718&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795
Hi Garth,
I just wanted to offer my thanks for not joining the Green Party. That may sound rather odd, coming from a Green Party member. As much as I’d really like to finally have a Green MP in Ottawa, I’m glad it won’t happen the same way as with some other MPs who have so brazenly crossed the floor. I’d rather have our first MP elected.
Speaking of which, thanks for helping out with Elizabeth’s campaign. It is very much appreciated.
Even if you don’t ever join the Green Party, I’m glad to know there’s at least one small-”g” green MP on the hill.
Regards,
Andrew Netherton
“Catharine†went over the top last night, and posted a few comments that were patently incorrect and completely ad hominen. Yeah, she could well be a PMO operative (not the only one on the site, for sure), and I’m happy to let her back on, but only on a comment-by-comment basis. This is a free speech zone, not a trainwreck. — Garth
Garth
You got back pretty darn quick. Thanks for taking my voice into consideration. May be a small thing, but it does show you read these comments frequently and respond with honesty. Cool
To the e-trolls
One thing to remember is that this blog is owned by Garth and he does have the right to do anything he wants with it and the people in here. I have found Garth to be a man of his word, but everybody has limits. I have also found that if your comments are factual, true to your belief and put forward in a respectful manner, they stay. If all you want to do is try to sling mud, use invictive free form writing techniques, you deserve to get booted. Something to remember is that what you write is seen by all that enter this blog. If Garth feels it is inappropriate, he has every right to delete or not post the comment.
Stick to the facts, your opinions and word them in such a way that it is not offensive to most who read this blog and I believe Garth will let it be posted. I have yet to see any well thought out and well worded comments be refused on this blog, irregardless of what the message is. Of course I realize the trolls will have a field day with this comment, but I just look where it’s coming from and shrug.
Any chance you can run in Bowmanville Garth?
I agree that Liz May should be int he House of commons, but I don’t think this is the seat for her.
The Liberal candidate in that riding is a local firefighter, who freed slaves in Sudan, started up the local foodbank and adopted a girl whose life would have been left for the slavelords.
It is a compelling story, and this guy is a true local hero. So, with all due respect to May: Liberal would be solid choice here.
Hey Josie
Have to disagree with your theory that the emails to PM and such are thrown away without being looked at.
You get the automated response before it gets turfed. I know. I’ve been writing the PM, my own MP and the MND for months now. I have received several form letters and all they did was shift the blame to another department and now all I get are the automated responses. However, I did get to sit down with Bev Oda for ten minutes or so.
Have a question for Garth. Where can I get the robots the government sends in place of the real MPs? Could use one for the telemarketers.
I suggest to the E – trolls to save their mud slinging for their ineffective overpaid politicians who will be raising taxes……to support questionable causes such as Atomic Energy………Will you be happy about your taxes going up 30%? courtesy of Harper and McGuinty…and his gang…….how about all that lovely millions of dollars of taxpayer corporate welfare money given to Ford and GM……of which Ford laid off hundreds of people……in Windsor… save your poison E-Pens for your effective politicians……
Which reminds me Garth……
Ben Franklin would have been amazed with the Internet.
The “Electronic Pen” is mighter than the Sword………
This is what scares the politicians……more…..informed people who react and communicate with other people and the media………
Wanted an upfront and honest answer, and I got one. I would not care to see government resources used to operate and maintain this blog. To see that an MP uses his personal resources to operate a forum like makes it much more legitimate and compelling.
My 2 cents.
All MPs are allowed resources to create and maintain a web site. I am no different, and costs associated with this come out of my MP’s office budget, as with others. I supplement this with additional equipment I purchased personally. — Garth
Oh, no, Garth!! Catherine had stopped calling me an “Afghanistan women and children hater”, a Taliban supporter, a Fiberal, and a lousy left-wing ideology promoting teacher who screwed up her kids. I think she was starting to like me, really like me!!!
Here is an example of how well the government allows communication to Members of Parliament. When I just sent an email to Alberta Members, I received the following message:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed.
Ambrose.R @parl.gc.ca
Anders.R @parl.gc.ca
Benoit.L @parl.gc.ca
Calkins.B @parl.gc.ca
Casson.R @parl.gc.ca
EppK @parl.gc.ca
Goldring.P @parl.gc.ca
Hanger.A @parl.gc.ca
Harper.S @parl.gc.ca
Hawn.L @parl.gc.ca
Jaffer.R @parl.gc.ca
Jean.B @parl.gc.ca
Kenney.J @parl.gc.ca
Lake.M @parl.gc.ca
Menzies.T @parl.gc.ca
Merrifield.R @parl.gc.ca
Mills.B @parl.gc.ca
Obhrai.D @parl.gc.ca
Prentice.J @parl.gc.ca
Rajotte.J @parl.gc.ca
Richardson.L @parl.gc.ca
Solberg.M @parl.gc.ca
Sorenson.K @parl.gc.ca
Storseth.B @parl.gc.ca
Thompson.M @parl.gc.ca
Warkentin.C @parl.gc.ca
Williams.J @parl.gc.ca
Your email was most likely identified as spam. There are rules setup on the exchange server(s) that block various types of correspondence because they appear to be spam, malicious code or attachments, etc… If you email each MP separately, it should not be bounced back.
Garth, Although I’m not a constituent, I have run across your blog on several occasions and have been impressed. I truly like how accessible your are to your constituents. Gordon O’Connor is my MP, and while I’m sure he’s doing a fine job in representing us, I would happily swing my vote your way if you decided to Move to the Carleton-Mississippi Mills riding.
As an aside, if there were sufficient Independents, say 12 or more, would there be any benefit to trying to form a coalition to obtain official party status? Is that something that is difficult to do without a central party infrastructure?
Garth,
Thank you for being a shining light of true democracy.
ALL MP’s should, by the very basis of them being elected to represent their constituents, be independents.
Party platform planks are okay for presenting basic ideologies during campaigns, but voicing opinion with informed content is a foundation of real democracy.
If the NWT can have a legislature without majority control, or political party affiliation, then why cannot Canada at the Federal level?
The U.S. is a dull, barely glowing example of what pure party politics delivers…social dysfunctionality, a war machine run by the back-room gang, and a worthless electorate who find better things to do than care. it is the root of a narcissistic, hedonistic society that eventually self-destructs from within…Just as Rome did.
I applaud your open recognition of Elizabeth May and thank you as a Green Party member for helping to open the door to some truly well thought through positions.
The Green Party is not merely about environmental issues, it is about he cohesive broad reality of interconnected components which deals with a real plan to preserve the future and rights of Canadians. I truly believe the Green Party is about people, all people, and those great Canadian values we cherish including our environment, which we all still can enjoy, and insuring we, and future generations will have a balanced world to live in.
Again, Thank you for your assistance and may the other MP’s follow with you in returning our Parliament to functional democracy. It works, works well, and makes true progress when the best ideas are brought to debate and the party power perverts are made equal and responsible as citizens. That is what true democracy and equality or about. Work the solution to our needs and problems, not the next election.
On reflection my previous post was an odd way of phrasing my thought. There is no need to pack up and move this way, unless you you feel the need for a change of scenery.
I would like to see more individuals of your caliber run for MP. I would happily swing my vote away from the established parties to a thoughtful, well-informed Independent.
Hi Garth:
Just want to forward by saying that I’m traditionally an NDP supporter. I read your press release about the independence of MPs and party politics and let me teel you, I’m inspired.
I was sitting in my office thinking about political brands and the names we attach ourselves to, much more frequently than ideals. It only reinforced my complete mistrust at the objectivity of our elected officials, even in the NDP.
I hope more people like you come out to run in the next elections. We may not agree on all issues, but I’d much rather share a brew with you and talk honestly about what’s needed than swallow a party line from a “kindred spirit” from the left anyday.
Keep fighting the good fight, and good luck. I’ll be reading.
Just off the top of my head…
Trying to get 12 indie MP’s all moving in the same direction would be somewhat akin to “hearding cats” would it not?
It would be a noble effort however.
Garth,
You should read Lou Dobbs comments on his experience, if you have not.
Dobbs: I’m a populist and proud of it
http://us.cnn.com/2006/US/11/14/Dobbs.Nov15/index.html
Blogs are WONDERFUL
Local folks post interesting political views that are relevant to their local situation:
READ this for some entertaining stuff:
http://darrendrmcewen.blogspot.com/2006/10/dear-conservatives-please-nominate.html
That person (a young Liberal voter) it would seem has some VERY interesting and disturbing comments on the CPC candidate in London:
“We need more candidates who are more in the know about the nomination process than the person who’s supposed to be running the show. (Haskett admits that she knew about the nomination selection process prior to the riding association president. Harper’s people deny the process is rigged to favour Haskett’s bid.)”
(sarcasm)
this is another sad comment about how any form of grassroots local democracy (read local riding association) is actually an impediment to the Big Blue Machine! Harper’s CPC!
I did not say my emails are ignored by the PM/
I said that my emails to Carolyn Bennett MP for St Pauls and Mr. Michael Bryant……….are ignored…….
they are.
I spent 2 years…….fighting MPAC>…….I never heard once from Michael Bryant who has been busy fighting pitbulls and perverts and not the crooks at MPAC>……..who have been screwing the Ontario Taxpayer for quite some time……………
Your letters will not be ignored if you send copies to the various ratepayers associtions in Ontario….we have them listed in Toronto under the city of Toronto…….and there must be something for Mississauga…….
I send every letter to the media……..The Toronto Star Globe and Mail and Toronto Sun.
I have received 2 letters from Mr. Guinty’s office……I don’t like his policies……but at least he acknowledges my letters…..
i do not plan to vote for Bryant or Carolyn Bennett……rubber stamping political robots……….who can’t be bothered to call send emails or letters…….
You make your choice based on your experience……..with these political poobahs…..
I have received confirmations form the PM’s office ……and these same letters have been sent to the National Citizens Coalition and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business…………..
Numbers talk and your letters are read if there are others that you associate with……
I am sure the that the snow birds supports Garth’s pension splitting legislation…..i figure this well organized group numbers over 100,000
Majority of letters are ignored…….
This has been my experience and that of my neighbours…..there are always exceptions……….
interesting…you go on about transparency and how the govt needs to be accountable to the people (which I wholeheartedly agree) and yet when someone asks if you are using govt tools for your personal blog, you get bent out of shape and call the person a “nerd”. You talk about free speech and yet I hear of many who have posted here, only to have their thoughts censored by exclusion. You want to discuss and debate yet how can one do so when most of the comments are basically from yes men/women? As for independents and the horror of party politics, I have a question. If we had more independents, would there not be a need to have them stand under an “independent” umbrella? And would that not just end up being another party? I would think it to be almost impossible to run govt without some sort of consensus as to where the govt is going. We have enough problems with getting things done in parl with opposition- can you imagine what it would be like with a bunch of MP’s all talking at once with a different idea of how to get things done? Utter chaos.
First, 99.9% of all comments submitted are posted. Only those which have absolutely nothing to add, are abusive or simply from another planet, are not included. It is, strange to say, still my blog. As for only posting positive comments, read a couple of hundred and judge for yourself!
And the independents argument – are you telling me 20 Indies out of 306 MPs would create chaos? That’s all I ever mentioned as a desireable goal. So don’t exaggerate to make a nonexistent point. — Garth
I’m still waiting for you or another outspoken MP to begin to lay bare the connection(s) between business and politics, which is what we all know drives the political system.
my recommendations to Geoffrey laxton…….
don’t send the email to everyone all at once……
send 3 or 4 at a time……..and then forward them to other people and the media and the ratepayers association….
its scares the living crap out of them when they see who else has received these emails…..
McGuinty is very clever……he is much more voter savvy than Bryant or Carolyn Bennett…………
I will continue to be a pain in the ass regarding this Atomic Energy……..
We finally beat MPAC and will beat this…….but we need people like you to say……..NO TO NUCLEAR ENERGY…..YES TO POLITICAL REFORM…….NO TO INCREASE OF TAXES 30% TO SUPPORT NUCLEAR ENERGY…….NO TO CORPORATE WELFARE TO BOMBARDIER…….FORD, AND GM……AT THE BACKS OF THE TAXPAYER.
Garth,
It is great that you are helping a fellow “green” get elected. If Elizabeth is elected, the two of you will have the same size of caucus in the house, so the “parties of 1″ may want to share resources.
I am glad that you are using office budget money for this site. In fact, I’m embarrassed that my own MP (Ottawa South) doesn’t have as active a website, even if Ottawa is “silicon valley north”. David McGuinty is another small-g green who was approached by the Greens at one point, and you may wish to speak with him.
On “Digital Democracy”: You say the genie is out of the bottle and can’t be put back in, but I wish that this were true. Please look closely at any Copyright bill that the government (whichever one — the larger parties are about the same on this) tables. The whole concept from more than a decade ago was to try to put the genie back into the bottle, both because some incumbent businesses didn’t like the competition, but also because some political folks didn’t like the transparency and accountability. While these cool digital devices may remain physically in our hands, unless it is the owners of these devices who control them the democracy enhancing features will be under remote (anti-democratic, anti-competitive, anti-property) control.
Please look at our petitions to parliament for an idea of what is going on. Would you be willing to table signatures to these petitions?
While I know everyone associated with your office will be extremely busy, please have someone read and summarize for you the article The Digital Imprimatur: How big brother and big media can put the Internet genie back in the bottle.
Garth,
I can only repeat myself… the biggest impact you could have in terms of working towards a better democracy, is if you were to join the green party today… because i firmly believe, the more parties a parliament has the better the country’s democracy. Don’t you think?
I STAND CORRECTED…..
I did receive an actual response from the Pm’s office concerning my the war in Lebanon……I truly feel Canada should be neutral and not have a close association with George Dubya……because the Americans have lost all credibility in the Middle East, Europe and the rest of the World…
Stephen Harper is viewed as George Bush lackey……he may state otherwise on the record….i say an article i think in Readers Digest stating that he finds it offensive that people compare him to George Bush.
I find it offensive as a Canadian that we are not taken seriously in the world because of our questionable positions on the IRAQ War, Lebanon……..the Environment and I am certain there will be other issues………..
I find it offensive to my intelligence and rather hypocritical………considering his former opinions about cleaning up Ottawa…..
absolute bullshit
i also want to mention Garth….that you may want to Talk to Catherine Swift of the Canadian Federation of Independent business……
maybe they may be able to sponsor you and your cause……As you are well aware of Small Business members are over 100,000. I am a former small business member…..but my focus is now in the US. Market….they would be interested in chatting with someone like you ……you have credibility….. more importantly they are always trying to level the playing field for small businss who are generating jobs for this country not the fords and the GMS of the world………you should talk to them………
The Conservatives sure sprayed Roundup on the grassroots this time…
Keep on fighting for us Garth. I don’t live in Halton but tax receipt or not I will be sending you a cheque.
I still say you should sell democracy themed Garth t-shirts…although I guess that may play into the hands of those that are trying to paint you as an attention junkie.
@Don:
I don’t think we’re about getting Independents going in the same direction. Call it “Open-Source Politics.” An agreement that extends only so far as to be that the Independents acknowledge the need to work within the confines of the existing rules to get equal treatment.
That is to say, they may have to nominate a leader “or chair” and agree to a simple method for equal distribution of resources resultant from “party status”: funding, speaking time, etc.
There’s no need to toe a party line, the idea is that the Independents get speaking time and funding that their Party-based peers have. I guess it’s basically an un-whipped party whose only platform is to reprosent their constituents.
John Ibbitson writes about us in his column today:
First, in any populist movement, there are cranks, kooks and lonely souls. Their unhappiness has less to do with political than with personal frustration. Read the online comments to any blog, including Mr. Turner’s. More than a few of the correspondents need to get out more. To that extent, Mr. Turner is simply conducting a high-tech dialogue with loners and losers.
So, to repeat, there is no easy answer. Mr. Turner is the messiah of the lonely hearts, but he is also cutting edge, though what that edge is, and how well it cuts, is uncertain.
May I humbly suggest that everyone here please identify in their post as to whether they are a crank, kook, or lonely soul?
If you want to read the article on line, you need to use Google News to search for Ibbitson. If you go through the G&M website you can only see it if you are a subscriber.
Woo hoo!
I love that you are staying independant, and also promoting Green.
You have a great vision for a more democratic Canada, and you have my support.
Keep up the good work!
Josie…why…do…you…use…so…many…elipses?
Judy, believe it or not, I am actually beginning to like your posts. I can’t say that I like you, the person, because I do not know you.
Just wanted to say that I voted for you in the last election for all of the reasons that you have been kicked out of the Tory Party for. At least the reasons I think you have been kicked out for independence, free thinking, willing to challenge someone else’s opinion etc. Are you always right? Of course not, but then neither is everyone else (despite what they may think). If you chose to run as an independent next time … you will get my vote again. I vote for the person that I think might represent us best at the time, not the party who’s ideals and promises often shift.
When I was out in BC about a dozen years ago I voted for a housewife who had joined the newly formed Reform party. She did a great job for our area becuase she wasn’t a “life long” politician. Perhaps the way to go is term limits, no more than 2-3 terms (8-12 years). Then perhaps we might see some real change rather than people who just want to keep their nose clean and their head down until the next election and their pension.
Perhaps you are starting a new movement similar to the 1985 movie Brewster’s Millions where Richard Prior (Brewster) encouraged everyone to vote for “None of the Above”. While I don’t advocate a non vote, perhaps you are at the fore-front of a “Vote Independent” movement and will start issuing “independent – no party affilliation” membership cards. Hey, if only 30 – 35% vote today there is an untapped 65-70% of non voters who think all politions/parties are basically the same, so why bother.
Keep up the great work.
john ibbiton works for the ottawa office for the globe and mail
1613-566-3613
jibbitson.com
This newspaper is owned by Bell Canada who harasses former customers like me………to say they want my business.
I have read the article…..I am not a crack pot……..entrepreneur……minority in Canada self employed female……no children ……..does business in Canada and the United States….Employment Recruiter……
Does this sound like a crack pot…
This person has called all of us crack pots……
He is an idiot………and quite frankly I no longer subscribe to the globe and mail newspaper because it publishes garbage…..
in fact now they put pornographic advertisements in the business section of the globe and mail newspaper
send your comments to this gentlemen……..
I have actually called John ibbitson……who provides his cell phone on the phone…….I will be writing a letter to editor to file a compliant…..
In my opinion he is an idiot……I would appreciate that Bell Canada stop harassing me and my husband……..concerning our phone bills…..As you are well aware of the Globe and Mail is owned by Bell Canada……..BCE Globemedia……
There is a fine line between opinion, insults and slander……………..
This person is an idiot…………As far his newspaper is concerned……….I stopped subcribing once…..they were accepting tasteless hoffman laroche adds for diet products………..so that woman can perform lap dances for the boyfriends and their husbands…..
The globe will do anything for money….A canadian newspaper with only U.S articles on the Front Page……this is suppose to be a national newspaper…………garbage.
The deception on this blog is the misguided notion that Garth Turner represents a majority of Canadians, and that everybody else is out of touch. Well, you are out of touch, I am afraid, with reality.
I have seen these populist movements come and go over the years, and people invariably think (such as with the Reformers) that we are on to something here that is going to really and finally change things, but the more things change, the more they remain remarkably the same.
And things really don’t change by external political actions that work only superficially from the outside, and which do not bring lasting transformation.
Because we know that change is needed, people will gravitate to people who will lead the charge for democratic reform, but a basic issue that we are missing here has to do with whether our basic change needed has more to do with the present system, or with a fallen human condition.
Hear me out! People on this blog are demonizing Stephen Harper as a dictator of the worst kind, when the issue is all about caucus confidentiality. OK, so why has every government and every caucus in Canadian history insisted on caucus confidentiality???
Even Preston Manning had to finally yield to that reality, and this is why the present Conservatives had to become more like the Progressive Conservatives that they previously loathed than a genuine reform movement.
Name me one leader of any party who has not insisted that some things be kept in confidence? Name one if you can from any time in Canadian history?
It is because of the human condition that in the world of partisan politics, if other parties knew all of your caucus “secrets,†they would use that knowledge to demonize you, and to use that info for their own partisan gain and political advantage. We have all done it, and it is wrong.
Just like Garth Turner is here using any “secrets†that he knows about the Conservatives to his own advantage, and for his own political purposes. John Nunziata did the same, and how long did he last?
Yet I get a response to a previous comment worded like this: “Armbruster, what secrets should be kept from the people to maintain a government which you think believes dissent equals chaos?â€
I was not even talking about legitimate “dissent.†I was talking about caucus confidentiality, which in the world of partisan politics, is unfortunately necessary if you do not want to set yourself up to be demonized by the opposing parties before you can take action at the appropriate times.
Jean Chretien was accused of running a very tight ship, and Paul Martin promised more openness in government as well as in the selection of judges. He failed miserably. Nothing changed.
Perhaps we are not going to bring real change at the political level at all which can only change the party in power, but not the real issue which is the deceitfulness and the partisanship and the self-centredness of human hearts. We all fall into the same trap, and perpetrate the same problem.
There will never be complete transparency until there is first of all trust in relationships. If relationships keep being broken, all that we have is more mistrust, more cynicism, and more broken relationships which leads to ever greater fragmentation and disintegration of a once civilized society.
“Trying to get 12 indie MP’s all moving in the same direction would be somewhat akin to ‘hearding cats’ would it not?
“It would be a noble effort however.”
Noble indeed, but very naive, and sadly misguided.
Democracy is messy. Get used to it. — Garth
Mr. Turner I shall enjoy seeing you lose your seat in the next election. You are a cooked goose, your media ranting, and running to where ever you can get attention proves it.
You were never a conservative. In fact I don’t think the current conservative party is conservative either. You and your former masters are the biggest political frauds to be perpetuated on us.
Income splitting when you have taxed and devalued the crap out of the investments most seniors rely on is a joke. You didn’t get anything done except give your old masters a small thin distraction for the mess that they have made of our markets. The whole lot of you are more red then the liberals!
All of your talk about independent politics falls apart so the little media whore that you are can go where the attention is and campaign for your socialist friend. She represents a party, it is interesting that your little media rants about being independent are now forgotten.
I also love your attack and smear politics. How is it that someone that is not for same sex marriage is ‘anti-gay’?
You can support civil unions and preserve traditional marriage and not be anti-gay. Preserving a traditional notion of an institution that the majority of Canadians want (including many liberals!) does not make you a bigot or hate anybody. You are the BIGOT for ascribing such hateful words towards people that disagree with you. But this is the falsity your stupid thinking perpetuates. At the end of the day, YOU ARE A BIGOT. YOU ARE THE BIGGEST FRAUD.
Now go have fun campaigning for your socialist friends that believe in junk science and the devastation of our economy like you.
If you are a true Conservative I’m glad I am not. Get some help, man. — Garth
my tax bill is out of touch paying golden pension plans for entitled lazy government bureacrats………who do not even feel that the taxpayer should even talk to them……..
As for Mr. Ibbitson……he got a interesting email today…….
correction email address for
John Ibbitson…….who says anything positive on Garth blog is a crackpot….
jibbitson@globeandmail.com
the phone number has been provided below…
I also want to add….that the Globe and Mail is owned by the BCE bell Canada the same company that harasses people to return to them for phone service…..because they are sick and tired of their bad service.
I say to people…….cancel your sympatico………and get a Rogers Account……….
Mr. Ibbitson you are an idiot……….I don’t appreciate the globe and mail publishing pharmaceutical advertisements in the business section to promote a diet product for women so that they can do a lap dance for their husband or boyfriends.
hey sex sells…….The globe is desperate for new subcribers that now they resort to sex……
I use to subscibe over 10 years to the idiot newspaper…….
Hello Garth,
Bravo for speaking your mind and sticking to it.
Let the yes men go and stand up for democracy.
We are civil rights activists and have been pissed off about the complete and utter exile of the Canadian people from our Parliamentary system.
We are trying to present an equal shared parenting bill and have had years of non input from out MP, Scott Brison.
We want Congressional style hearings in Canada.
We the citizens Must be heard. But we are not. We are discriminated against.
Why?
Why are we paying politicians who can’t be bothered to return phone calls let alone take action?
Oh, and we are banned from the NS Conservative party. We wanted to join and run and they banned us. Not once, but twice.
Violation of Sect. 3 of the Charter.
We are also exposing criminal child abduction by the NS government and judiciary in NS. They are committing acts of violence and violating the criminal code
and they think they can get away with it.
We have filed a lawsuit.
Keep up the good work. We are supporters.
We want more citizen’s input and less red tape.
We want to be able to come to Ottawa and present our case in Parliament.
Government by the people for the people. True democracy. Unheard of!
Fellow Crackpots…….cancel your bell canada phone line…your bell mobility account………and your sympatico accoutn……your business is not appreciated by the folks at the globe and maul owned by BCE bell Canada……..
You are not a very clever man.
Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:39:43 -0800 (PST)
From: “Josie Erent” View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: You are an idiot………
To: jibbitson@globeandmail.com
CC: garth@garth.ca
John,
What are your accomplishments?
Insulting concerned citizens like me…….small business self employed who are witness countless corporate welfare handouts by our federal government……..while our citizens and small busineses are taxed too death?
At least Garth has written books and he is making a difference. What are you accomplishing?
You have a hell of nerve insulting us…………I will pass your comments to other individuals…….
There is a fine line between editorials, opinions, insults and slander………….
You are just a mediocre reporter……….working for a company that accepts advertising from pharmaceutical companies such as Hoffman LaRoche that encourages women to use diet products as advertised in the business section to do lap dances for the boyfriends……and their husbands….
I am a former subscriber to your paper…………….over 10 years to be exact……………..you now publish rubbish……
You call yourself a Canadian paper with articles on the Front page all about the U.S.
Are not Canadian Events worthy of reporting by your fine Paper.
YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
I kindly ask that your parent company Bell Canada stop calling my home……they can take their phone service and stick it up your arrogance ass and that of your executive team.
Josie Erent
self employed
Former member of Canadian Federation of Independent Business
15 Year Corporate Sale Executive Telecom and Software.
President
Silicon Executive Search
Toronto Ontario M5P 2L2
416-232-0600
fellow crack pots cancel your globe and mail subscription
heck if I have to read U.S news….I will read the New York Times…..
Dear Mr. Turner.
I wanted to take the time to express my disappointment in how your dismissal from the party has occurred.
I have enjoyed your columns, articles, and programs for many years and was appalled by these recent events.
Please be aware that I have just now voiced my displeasure to the party via the following comments posted to the national site:
To whom it may concern,
I am a resident of Halton, and was more than happy to vote for Mr. Turner – I was happy to vote for a credible conservative candidate.
I do not understand what Mr. Turner did to receive the condemnation he has and the Executive of the Party is not providing proof of their allegations. However, I do know that I have a great deal of concern with the apparent flip-flop on the openness promised by the party. I can understand that it isn’t easy to continue making progress in a minority government, but all the more reason not to eliminate a colleague and give more ammunition to your adversaries.
In my opinion, what the Conservative Party has done here reeks of Liberal contempt. In such a precarious balance of power, I am dismayed with the heavy-handed way in which my MP has been dismissed from the party. The Executive may not care one fig about me, but surely they should have sought a way to make their relationship with Mr. Turner work – if not for the sake of those of us who voted for him/you, then for the sake of the bad press this is going to generate.
As for me, please note that in all of my adult years – at both the provincial and federal levels of government – I have voted for a conservative candidate in every election but one. Given the autocratic and clandestine manner in which you have removed my conservative voice from parliament, I feel that I can no longer support your party’s goals and plans.
Unless I receive an explanation – including proof – for the Party’s handling of this matter, you may consider this my pledge to never vote for the Conservative Party of Canada again.
Sincerely,
George Johnson
Garth, does all this mean that our taxes will be increasing now?
I very much appreciate your leadership in advancing an agenda of participatory democracy. If there would be a groundswell of these sorts of actions and a step back from the stasis of the party system’s current form, we would likely see a population more engaged in the politics that influence their lives. We need more discussion forums hosted by influential people, more town hall meetings and more citizens’ forums.
More independent discussion will lead to more robust policy making; it is as simple as that.
Your leadership in this regard is greatly inspiring. I look forward to becoming engaged in your web forum (PromisesKept), specifically in the field of my expertise (foreign relations) and would like to offer any help that you require.
Mike, Ottawa.
Hi Garth,
I just wanted to thank-you for this website. I check it quite frequently and I enjoy your MPTV segments and the posting of question period. It’s great to see the behind of scenes of Parliament.
I’m also quite happy to see that you are supporting Elizabeth May with her campaign in London North Centre. We do not need someone like Dianne Haskett as a MP in Parliament. It would also be great to finally hear a Green voice in the House.
Please keep up the good work and just letting you know, I’m not from your riding, however I support you all the way!
Say, Josie. With your rants, do you expect to be respected? President of a search company? You like titles, do you not? And what is with all the elipses? Do you speak like that, as well?
Oh, and the splash “under construction” graphic for PromisesKept is pretty cheesy. It looks like it belongs on a missionary handout.
How did you know? — Garth
I’ve never written to a local politician before but I wanted to commend you for your service and your courage to stand up against the “old boy” network that has attempted to push you aside.
I voted conservative and WAS pro-Harper…but now am regretting it. The current government’s arrogance and elitist manner has turned me off. I am one of the “little people” who they don’t seem to care about. You do. You will have my vote and support ongoing. Thanks for caring.
Please forward this to Mr. Harper for me.
Have a super day! Chris
Hello Mr. Turner!
I would like to congratulate you for speaking out with regards to party politics and the undermining of our democracy. I believe that the underlying problem is our electoral system. I am a strong supporter of Single Transferable Vote as a system that I feel would strongly benefit Canada. I have done a considerable amount of research on the subject of electoral reform. While I agree that the political party is necessary, it has too much power and influence under our present system. I believe that true consensus is a strong tool to governing a country successfully. I live in a riding that is a safe seat for your old party. I am really wasting my time voting as I have no representation in Ottawa even if I was a conservative!
Your comment concerning your ability to have more influence on government decisions now that you are no longer a member of the ruling party makes sense. However, that is mainly due to the minority government that we now have. Under our present electoral system, minority governments are closer to true democracy because debate actually means something. Legislation actually needs consensus to be enacted instead of being ‘rubber stamped’ by a majority government before it is tabled. In my opinion, the next best thing to STV is a minority government, so that MP’s like yourself can have some actual say.
Thank you once again for telling it like it is. We desperately need more like you in Ottawa.
Keep up the good work!
Regards,
Paul B.
Langley, BC
Garth – you edit Catherine and yet Connie and Vic can post total nonsense which is totally off-topic, far-fetched (NS abducting children?). I don’t get it.
Josie also rants incoherently and is quite abusive and yet you don’t edit her posts.
Mr Turner,
Unfortunately I can’t vote for you in the next election, I really wish I could you are a true Canadian who really cares about this country and his responsibility to those he represents. I wish my member of parliament cared half as much as you. Not only does my member not blog, he doesn’t respond to emails, well maybe he knows I didn’t vote for him.
Anyways, I just wanted to say, for what it’s worth, I am proud of you. The way in which you have handled yourself in this difficult situation gives you the moral high ground, your arguments are well thought out, clear and lacking of resentment.
I would love nothing more than to run for office and join you in taking back the government for the people, unfortunately I lack the campaign knowledge and funding. Hopefully I’ll be able to find a candidate, like yourself who believes in Democracy at all levels and that the will of the people is far more important than what any one party thinks it needs.
If there is anything I can do, I’d be happy to help.
-Robert
Garth,
Ordinary Canadians need to feel that their reps in Ottawa have a voice, keep up the great work! By the way I’ve always felt it difficult to be a conservative and a environmentalist, and I’m happy to see that my MP has similar views.
Take care,
Richard
Amid all of the blabbing and blogging on this site, there has been a strange silence to the issue that I have raised regarding why any and every leader of a political party in Canadian history has invariably insisted on caucus confidentiality.
Even Preston Manning, after riding the crest of the wave of a populist move, ended up discipling MPs who fell out of line. All parties have done it. The Liberals did it to John Nunziata and Carolyn Parrish. The NDP did it to Bev Desjarlais.
Knowing that 12 Independent MPs will never be able to for a government, why, we may ask, does every leader of a political party through Canadian history end up insisting on caucus confidentiality.
And why do we think that Garth Turner’s attempt to stir the pot will lead anywhere different.
The silence has been both deafening and disturbing.
The more we keep attacking each other along partisan lines, the more relationships break up and fragment, and the less it becomes possible to take constructive action.
You are not going to bring cohesion and clarity to the political process in Canada through 12 Independent Members of Parliament. To get them to form a coherent policy would be, like somebody suggested, trying to herd 12 cats in a common direction.
Do you believe that all Independant MP’s should be involved in supporting other parties?
Will you be visiting other consituencies facing elections, or just ones with the Green Party running?
If you support Elisabeth May so strongly, why not join her party? What are you afraid of?
Garth, I see that your way of responding to people you don’t like is to simply say, “Get some help, man.” How is this part of the democracy process where every point of view should be heard???
You say, “Democracy is messy. Get used to it.”
What you have not done is to demonstrate to us how that you would lead us out of the mess that you are trying to lead us into deeper. If democracy is messy, then increasing the democratization will only lead us into more messiness.
Where have you demonstrated that you can build a team and a coalition. I see on the “promiseskept.ca” home page that the only name mentioned is “Garth Turner, MP.”
Where is the team, where is the coalition that has demonstrated that it can build relationships of trust and confidence?
“How did you know? — Garth”
I went to http://www.promiseskept.ca/ and beheld the graphic. I suggest substituting it with something from around your riding.
“In any case, I will bang on some doors, scare some cats, and do what I can for democracy.” –Garth Turner.
If your idea of promoting democracy is to “scare some cats” who run in different directions, where do you expect this to lead if not to chaos and confusion that will in the end motivate more people to beg for a strong leader that will at least give some direction and order out of the confusion and chaos.
I am for democracy within the context that it builds cohesive community and long-term relationships of trust rather that scaring cats.
Garth have you realised that the majority of your supporters on this blog are neither conservative nor do they live in your riding? does this tell you anything?
Hi Garth
Good to see an independent mind. I guess you got wind of the direction
our country was being forced in. I suspect you know that the next PM is
another step in the wrong direction. I also suspect you know we as a country
are being manipulated. Yes , leaking things on this blog is better than speaking
frankly about what’s on your mind. If you did you’d be labeled a nut bar and this
blog would probably require an age restriction for language. I get that made just
reading about it.
I see a big picture where MP’s finally become nothing
more than token markers of democracy and the big business big machine power
rules us. Even today, they are becoming less abashed about the public becoming
aware of the state of affairs. This is not surprising when taken in the world
context. Everything is backwards! We destroy to create. Government of the people
is not by the people. I think seeing our past PM strangling a citizen said it all. Our
bill of “Rights and Freedoms” has become toilet paper. The minority and special
interest groups rule. We’re fighting a war we didn’t start instead of applying a genuine
Canadian solution which would have been dialog, education and inclusion. I could go on.
It would be very telling if someone would total up all the money that has been
stolen, misappropriated, mis-spent, mis-allocated, lost, squandered or otherwise
taken from the public purse without permission. If I could afford to do it there
would be a website that added up the waste and theft and displayed a daily graph.
We should also have the same for pollution. A daily graph of the amount dumped
tallied for quick easy reference.
In fact, there are a whole range of things that need simple graphs for daily consumption.
Is there someone out there who can do this for us? I don’t have the luxury of time to be
able to read a lot of blogs. I know many who are in the same boat.
Vicki – good one. That is one heck of a zinger. Well done.
There is another Richard? I was here first. LOL. Plus, I’m most likely older so I can claim squatter’s rights.
To Richard,
I do not enjoy being called a crank, kook or lonely…….soul…I have written my letter today……Yes I am the president of my own company……Don’t want to work with large corporations such as Bell Canada who do not necessarily hire the most qualified people……
You say I rant…….
I say the best way of dealing with people like a John Ibbitson is economic revenge……
Do you want your good money…..paying for insults in that paper…..?? I will leave it up to do…
In the meantime Richard, What is your vocation..? I believe free speech is endorsed here……..if you do not agree with my methodologies of dealing with arrogant companies than simply ignore my comments …as I will ignore yours…..
In his own riding, he did not even get 50% of the vote.
And now that he has done to Catherine something similar what the Conservative caucus has done to him when he also went over the top, I am beginning to wonder who will get the axe next in this democratic exercise?
I guess that it only proves that nobody believes in total democracy.
Have a good day, one and all.
The vast majority of Canadians coming here are doing so for constructive purposes. A few, like you, are nothing but destructive. Almost every comment is published – even Catherine’s most recent. She was barred for about 12 hours and, I hope, will be more civil in future. How about you? — Garth
Garth – after reading and hearing your statements I had a really good idea, a deja vu idea in fact. A dredging up of the past if you will.
How about you start a new movement called “The Reform Party”.
Call Preston Manning. He has some identical ideas to yours. Rermember how kindly the media treated Reformers? How speaking their minds turned them all into nut jobs and radicals?
Maybe now that the media has given you such glowing coverage it would be time for “The Reform Party” to be reborn.
Strange though – you did not seem to embrace the Reform movement as you remained a Progressive Conservative and, if memory serves me right, you campaigned AGAINST the very reforms you are now espousing.
Strange times indeed.
As it currently stands, elections work kinda like this:
- We have a couple of major political parties we have to choose from
- Each one presents us with their plans as a party and what they will do if elected.
- We vote for the best “Deal” that is given to us, and then we just suck it back and watch the party who was voted in turns around and says “Oh… things are worse then we first thought, and now we can’t make half our promises and we now have to cut this and tax that, etc.”
Does this sound like democracy? Where is the democracy in this?? All we get to do is vote for the best deal…. the lesser of two or three evils, so to speak and then hope for the best.
What can Canadians do to make the goverment do what we need them to do? Well…. we can hold protests and complain all we want with petitions…. but as I see it, most poloticians don’t really care about protests and petitions and they really mean nothing.
All it is now is a bounch of people who like their comfy seats and their nice paycheques for doing what they want to do with the country. Since they were voted in, they think they can do what they like, because the people wanted them in…… when in reality, they were voted in to listen to our problems, needs and requests and actually try and make things happen.
What our country is now is a Communist country with just enough democracy to fool the average person into thinking they actually have a say in the more important things, when most of the important things are already decided by those in power.
I’m 26 years old now, and I never been too into polotics until around 2000-01, mainly because I started to see the world head towards a dark time. I didn’t know anything about Prez Bush prior to the Bush/Gore election, but once I saw his evil, twisted face on TV after winning, I knew a lot of bad was gonna come our way, I just felt it….. so far I’ve been right.
The Republican party and the Liberals are both prime examples of just how corrupt our previous democracy has become and where it is heading. If we keep thinking that nothing is going to change, and if we’re gonna keep thinking that any other type of goverment besides what we have now would be communist, will only limit our future and continue our way of poverity, our increases in taxes, less support for those who need it and those who have the money……. well….
The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poor…. I never thought too much into that until recently, and just how true it is.
And if you didn’t catch my previous comment in your last Blog…. if you are interested in checking out my document with a lot of really interesting ideas, I’ll email it to you… it’s about 7 pages long, but hey….. you can’t change the world with just a paragraph.
vicki on 11.15.06 2:27 pm
The majority of Garth’s formerly conservative supporters don’t have to post messages on this blog to talk to Garth, they simply see him person!
Vicki – “Garth have you realised that the majority of your supporters on this blog are neither conservative nor do they live in your riding? does this tell you anything?”
I never liked any of the current political parties. I recently voted for NDP, just because they seemed to be heading in a slightly better direction then the other parties….. but not perfect, lol.
I was one of the many youths who just didn’t give a crap, mainly because most I talked to, including myself, just never felt it’d make any difference, and so far, it hasn’t.
There are so many people now who are educated in more things then in the past, whom have all kinds of really great ideas on how to improve our current way of life, but it seems like those who are currently in power, would rather look out for themselves and are comfortible in the spot they are in now and would rather continue leaving things they way they are now….. because it’s just easier.
vicki on 11.15.06 2:27 pm
And yes it sad that so many people from outside Garth’s riding post here. It shows the extreme deficiency in accessible communication with elected representatives in the rest of the country!
GARTH:
“If you are a true Conservative I’m glad I am not. Get some help, man. — Garth”
GETREAL:
Your responses are always cute but quite ineffectual Mr. Turner. You don’t have the honesty or capacity to answer any challenges posed to you. You only offer insults because your positions are indefensible and based only on bias, hatred and resentment of all those that disagree with you.
You have my pity more than my contempt because of the intellectual dwarfism that you suffer from. But I will now talk in a language that you will understand below.
I am a true conservative and a hard working Canadian, you are neither of these. You are a leech that feeds off other people’s good intentions and idealism for your own survival and benefit and nothing else.
You are and still remain a fraud. You were a fraud in politics, just as you were a fraudulent self-promoting ‘financial consultant’. You pushed ideas and investments that lost people allot of money without the responsibility of a governing profession. You fed yourself like a suckle pig at those investor seminars pushing funds (not explicitly but by presence) and other risky financial ideas that bombed. You sold snake oil then and you are selling snake oil now.
Old dogs like you don’t learn new tricks, you just figure out new ways to trick others.
Congratulations on finally coming out of the closet and admitting you are not a conservative but a hard left socialist!
I will let you get back to your fear and smear campaign now, hope you get enough time to hug or kiss a tree during all your photo ops in London.
Your..yawn..unimpressed constituent.
I would like to receive some feedback from other visitors to this site. Do you feel comments like the above add to our discussion, or are simply posted in an attempt to discredit me, and therefore the entire debate contained herein? Is it censorship to remove similar posts in the future? Should I be devoting my time and resources to publishing material like this? Please – some feedback would be helpful. I am trying to provide a constructive and open forum for Canadians, but am also mindful of providing a platform for those who want nothing of the political forums or openness that this represents. — Garth
Geoffrey Laxton – sure thing. Do you really think that we are so naive as to swallow your post at 3:12? Come on, give us some credit for at least enough intelligence to see through that.
Go Elizabeth May!
Garth, Good of you to make the trek. I hope she wins that riding.
By Geoffrey Laxton on 11.15.06 3:12 pm
Get real, Geoffrey. You know that is a crock. Every conservative in the riding talk to Garth in person? Sure. And I have some wonderful swamp land in Florida to sell you – in addition to a bridge in Brooklyn.
Well, Josie. You did not exactly ignore my post, did you?
Greetings.
Garth,
Reading a number of the comments here it appears that many people believe that it is impossible for an MP to have a functional brain unless part of a larger group?
I can only attribute this perception to their own inability to exhibit independent, and well informed thought themselves.
I would certainly, as a leader in several arenas, want to maintain my own credibility and integrity by carefully, and personally examining each issue based on the needs and merits associated with the issue.
It seems that some have become so accustomed to unintelligent MP’s that they no longer realize that an MP is THEIR voice in Parliament. This, of course, requires that they carefully examine whom they vote for in an election. I suppose that is asking too much of them because it might take valuable time away from their being a couch potato, hockey coach, or some other critically important activity they rate as more important than our freedoms and democracy.
Just trying to grasp such thinking!
Josie, it does not look like you ignored Richard’s comments.
Geoffrey -
They rather say things under the gise of annoymous names and addresses. When they see people face to face they will say they support them. It is a fact of life. Easier to say something and hide then to address it head on.
Garth, “Yeah, she could well be a PMO operative “… Oooh cloak and dagger. That’s a good one. Darn, I should go after that compensation they owe me, eh? OK – sarcasm off.
No I’m not from the PMO – I’m just a regular working stiff who pays taxes yearly.
BTW: Why is it that you allow slanderous name-calling that is directed towards our Prime Minister?
Garth have you realised that the majority of your supporters on this blog are neither conservative nor do they live in your riding? does this tell you anything?
Vicki,
Such a softball question. Allow me to hit the ball out of the park. Thank you.
They are not members of Garth’s riding.
People from all across Canada who understand what Garth is doing and think it is the right direction. People who have somehow connected with a politician who communicates on a daily basis, not just during the 30 days of an election campaign. In the NEXT election I wonder who they might choose, given a decent choice.
They are not Conservatives.
Not now they are not, but who would they vote for in the next election, if an intelligent political party realized what has been accomplished here?
————————-
This is why this whole exercise depresses me. The party and the detractors here are only interested in their core supporters. They don’t understand that we need to attract more people to our side.
By your own words, Vicki, you are demonstrating how much potential Garth’s communication style has. He is attracting the interest of Liberals, NDP, Greens, and non-partisan people who think all politicians are scum.
The response of the Conservative Party? We don’t want any of those people.
Vicki, who do you think those people who are not in Garth’s riding would vote for if they had a candidate like Garth to choose from?
By the way, there are many in the Halton Riding Association that believe that Garth can, and will, running as an Independant win in the next election. I have also heard someone prominent in the Halton media say the same thing.
This letter has been sent to all the presidents of BCE –
Bell Mobility
Globe and Mail
Bell GlobeMedia – CTV
I do not appreciate being called a Crank Kook and lonely heart….
I too busy trying to earn a living and pay my taxes to overpaid, self entitled Government Bureacrates…..
Best way of dealing with this is to switch your services with a Competitior
BOYCOTT
November 15, 2006
Attention: Globe and Mail RE- John Ibbitson Article – Garth Following – Crank, Kook and Lonely Soul.
Dear Sirs,
I am responding to the insulting article published by your narrow minded journalist who feels that individuals like me…….. are Cranks or KOOK or Lonely Souls. I am neither one of these derogatory labels. I am a self employed individual, proud Canadian who is concerned about the state our Country and the ability for someone to express themselves contrary to popular opinion. I agree with many of the viewpoints of Mr. Garth Turner……..but that does not make me a CRANK, KOOK OR LONELY SOUL. I am also a former Bell Mobility customer, Former Globe and Mail Customer, Former Bell Customer and Former Sympatico Customer.
Free speech applies to everyone including the press who I understand feel it is necessary in order to report news to the Canadian Public that has been forced to deal with endless corruption and lack of public accountability from its Government Bureaucrats at the Federal and the Provincial level and local level of government which is constantly being withheld and not made public. All of these topics have certainly been discussed in great detail in your paper and the Toronto Star.
Public Accountability, Fairness in Taxation Laws, Education, Energy Conservation are topics that have been discussed on this popular blog……that are important to many Canadians who unfortunately seek out other sources other than your newspaper that seems more preoccupied with U.S news rather than Canadian Current Events such as the Toronto Election.
I find Mr. Ibbitson Article insulting to every concerned Canadian Taxpayer young, old, entrepreneurs, corporate executives who seek out alternative voices to the dominant Political Parties of this Country. You can certainly insult us Mr. Ibbitson but you certainly cannot force us to continue to subscribe to your newspaper the Globe and Mail or continue to be wish to be customers of Sympatico, Bell Canada or Bell Mobility if you have such a low regard for us as Canadians and as lowly customers of Sympatico, Globe and Mail, Bell Mobility and Bell Canada.
We are a minority feel passionately about our country.…… In response to the article a boycott has been asked by all individuals visiting the blog. They have been asked to boycott your products and services serviced by Bell Mobility, Globe and Mail, Bell Globe Media – CTV, Sympatico, Globe and Mail and BCE Corporation.
As a newspaper, I would expect that free speech is two ways and not to suit that of your small minded journalist who wants to generate notoriety for himself at the expense of insulting disillusioned proud Canadians who seek to be heard in this country that is now governed by indifferent and self entitled politicians. Shame on Mr. Ibbitson. Shame on the Globe and Mail. You owe us an apology.
Your Truly
Josie Erent President and CEO
Silicon Executive SearchToronto Ontario
Former Globe and Mail customer (10 years)
Former Bell Sympatico customer
Former Bell Mobility Customer
Cc: BCE GlobeMedia President and CEO Ivan Fecan – Sympatico and CTV News.
Fax 416-332-5178
Cc BCE Corporation Michael Sabia fax 514-870-4385
Cc: Globe and Mail – Philip Crawley Publisher and CEO fax 416-585-05150
Cc: Bell Mobility Wade Oosterman President 514-592-8554
Garth,
I will be giving you money next years…..don’t worry about the tax receipt….. free speech is important to every Canadian on this blog…….we do not have to be insulted by the Globe and Mail……in order to be refrained from expressing our views.
I will be more than happy to send some money next year……..
We could learn something from aboriginal forms of government, which is government by consensus.
Also in Fiji today, they have a form of government called the multi-party cabinet, wherein every political party, depending on their share of the popular vote, has a representation in the cabinet or decision-making body.
With partisan politics that we have with the Westminster system of government, however, politics has become a team sport.
So think of the Grey Cup game this week-end.
Suppose that Garth played for the B. C. Lions, and was a part of their strategizing, and every time his coach calls a game strategy, he blurts it out on his blog so that everybody, including the Montreal Alouettes coach, could know the strategy and plans of the opposition.
How long would he be kept on the team?
Yet he would argue, “How about transparency and openness?”
Josie Erent …i think you fall into the “need to get out a little” catagory….
Josie Erent…I think you fall into the “need to get out catagory”….
Garth,
Perhaps you should consider a “Troll” page, on which you place the comments you cull as being offensive/slanderous/etc. This would serve two purposes: to quiet those who complain about censorship, and to provide the rest of us with not one, but two enjoyable reading experiences. Not only could we then read the serious and constructive comments, but also read the trolls for a good belly laugh afterwards.
josie – i hate to say it (well, no i don’t), but you do seem like a kook. will you please go rant somewhere else.
i do not live in your riding that is correct…I have been too busy getting a belly laugh at some of the comments on your posting.
LOL Josie
Roger Armbruster,
I believe the problem with Harper’s government is not that he insists upon some level of caucus confidentiality, but that he insists upon near total control of contact between Conservative MPs and their constituents, the media, etc. All of this while having been elected on a platform that included transparency and accountability, both of which have been missing from the current government.
Without transparency and accountability, how can there be trust between the electorate and the elected members? Yes, I do realize this is a chicken and egg problem, as expressed in your post. However, someone has to lead — and who better than our representatives, who really should be leaders rather than followers.
It seems to me that this is what Garth was bothered by in the Conservative caucus — and I in no way blame him for it. He has also taken the role of a leader — which, in my view, is exactly what an MP should do.
As to his supposed violations of caucus confidentiality — we haven’t seen any evidence to support the assertions. Without evidence, they are unsupported assertions — they don’t stand up to scientific inquiry, they don’t stand up in a court of law, so why should they stand up in this case?
Until there is sufficient evidence for any conclusions to be drawn, I will have to say that his supposed violations of caucus confidentialy are nothing more than an excuse to get rid of an outspoken MP who did not fit into Harper’s caucus china dolls; ie, the accusations are convenient bullshit.
I agree in principle that trust is important, but I believe that trust begets trust — and Harper’s policy of not trusting his caucus members with respect to speaking without an official line to tow does not beget trust.
Couple of links that might help keep the dialouge civil in here .
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html
http://www.netiquetteforums.com/
Ad hominum attacks are never a good idea aand say more about the writer than the intended victim .
How’s the door knocking reception Garth? Are they engaging or slamming?
Hi to everyone.
I was serious when I suggested daily totals on a graph for things such as stolen money, tonnes of pollution added to the environment and other things. I’d like to be able to see who voted for what bill at a glance. I want to know how many days each politician shows up for work. In short, I want to see my democracy in action.
Who’s with me?
I’ll pay for the website. Need people who can program and do the research. I don’t see any idea why we can’t have the facts if we work together.
Thanks,
Greg W.
I emailed you earlier this year after your first run in with the Tory caucus At that time I suggested you consider becoming an Independent based on the premise that Chuck Cadman had the situation in Ottawa figured out It now appears you are at the same place Chuck Cadman arrived at Regrettable Cadman didn’t live long enough to alter the situation in Ottawa but he courageously showed the Canadian people that being an Independent M P had considerable currency, that an MP had a responsibility to consult with the constituents of the riding and make an informed vote which represented their interests despite the fact such a vote might offend a party interest
Chuck Cadman lit the torch for electing Independent MP’s I hope you will take up this torch I hope you can ( through your example and web site ) provide Canadians who wish to enter politics as Independents, the support and advise they need to work towards becoming elected Independent MP’s
For the next Federal election I hope to wear a T shirt “ REMEMBER CHUCK CADMAN “ and will support any candidate who swears to represent his/her constituents first, with due consideration for overall Canadian values
Best of luck in your adventure as an Independent MP and be assured, hundreds of thousands of Canadians are looking for a chance to respectfully change the political landscape in Canada
Greg
I just got caught up on some of the comments.
It seems to me that most people in this country are either very forgetful or just plain stupid! There’s a lot of complaining about the voting system and who ran the country and how they ran it. I hear many people complaing seriously that the ballots don’t have a “None of the above” box.
Well folks, its been there for a while now! Its called the Green Party and if you read my previous comment you know full well that they have been None of the above!
You are displaying the 6 traints of someone grieving – Denial, Anger, bargaining, despair, acceptance an action.
Hopefully you move on to acceptance and stop making a self centred fool of yourself.
Where does disgust fit in? — Garth
A note on the theme posted by Garth.
Getreal doesn’t have the courage to use a real name. Regardless of what you did for a living you now accepted the responcibility to represent the concerns of the people. That includes Getreal. I would draw the line at that vitrolic and not post it. The intent is to attack you personally. It has no value and smacks of falsehood. Getreal needs to be on an awefull good standing to be so harsh a judge and I doubt that is the case. This tool must be used responcibly and when it is not… well that says a lot.
So Garth, what do you think about the China deal…. do you think China will stop trading with us? I believe that China has a trade surplus (in the billions) with Canada.
Ya okay, there’s a good analogy- football.
A bunch of thick headed guys running around a field with a ball. The ball goes back and forth as these guys bash into each other trying as hard as they can to make the other team fumble the ball. It moves only a few yards here and there, back and forth and tackling the guy who has the ball or trying to stop anyone on his team from advancing it is the key strategy. The team that gets the ball to the end zone or gets the most points wins. No one really gives a shit about the actual ‘ball’ as the ball is used in a game for the team to win. The spectators are irrelevent so long as they pay to watch and pay the players through their fees.
Yup, this is running the country in Canada- a sport
Ah, I am definitely grieving then. Disgust fits in just before action, and I think it might replace acceptance.
And Josie, don’t sweat it with Ibbitson. He’s just jealous that Garth’s readership has advanced far beyond his own. He used to occasionally have a good argument but since he can’t even coherently assess the statistical profile of blog posters, it tells one he is rapidly losing his edge, despite Garth’s readers being sharp enough to cut even him. Sadly Ibbitson is not even shameless, modestly speaking his writing is well, disappointing, but there’s nothing new about that.
Roger Armbruster,
You continue to postulate that Garth violated caucus confidentiality when there is no evidence of it. Allegations have been made by agents of the CPC who refuse to present proof. Why? Because none exists.
This is the kind of nonsense one expects of a misguided CPC dupe. Please provide proof of breach of confidentiality or back off
Mr. Turner,
I’m not a blogger – first time on your site – so far I like what I see. Prior to this, the only thing remotely connected to the IT-Political Revolution that I’ve been involved with was a daily e-mail to Progressive Conservatives by Joe H which I contributed to from time to time. I was also part of something called “savedemocracy.ca†which was a web-based effort to oppose a portion of the federal government’s second public security legislation, specifically the part that would have permitted “Military Security Zonesâ€.
That was some years ago. Unlike you, I refused to join the new Conservative Party (or, more precisely, I had to request – in writing – that they annul my membership after I was signed-up without my knowledge or consent simply because I was on an old PC membership list.)
I have since flirted with, than rejected the Greens. I would join the Progressive Canadians if I thought they had a chance. For now, I am now happily “homeless“.
Your news conference struck a nerve. I have recently tuned my thoughts to democratic reform, and I would like to take this opportunity to share my thoughts with you and all.
The essence of what follows is simple; enhance the system that we have now, while finding a place for proportional representation – we deserve no less than the best of both worlds.
What follows are suggestions only for your consideration. I apologize for the length…complexity and brevity are properly strangers.
Keep on your present path. With no party you have nothing to lose, but your peace of mind and honour to gain. You are breaking new ground for us all.
Cheers, and thanks,
Arthur Heale
Democratic Reform…Six Suggestions.
1) Mandatory Voting: They have this in Australia, and it works. It ensures that electors have their say, and addresses concerns that certain people are left out of the political process. If we can complain hour after hour between elections, can’t we take half-an-hour to vote every four years?
2) More MPs = Better Representation: Why not have more MPs – say, one MP for every 30,000 Canadians, up from one for every 100,000 people at the moment? This would mean about 1,000 MPs, up from 308 now.
Too many MPs? There are many advantages to this, including:
i) Better Representation: Having more MPs would bring MPs closer to constituents by lowering the number of people represented by each MP. I have never met my MP, who represents 100,000 + people. I have met my local city representative numerous times – isn‘t a personal connection essential to effective representation? How do you have a personal connection with over 100,000 people?;
ii) Diluted Party Loyalty: More MPs means diluted party loyalty in the House of Commons. Today MPs are loyal to their parties in the hopes of becoming Cabinet Ministers should their party ever form a government. In a world with 1,000 MPs, but only 30 Cabinet Ministers, most MPs would know they will never be Ministers. This political reality would free them to represent the concerns of their constituents rather than those of their party;
iii) Freer Votes: More MPs with less incentive to be loyal to their parties would also have fewer reasons to vote as directed by those same parties. The result would be freer votes reflecting the consciences of the MPs as informed by their constituents, rather than the needs of their political parties.
3) Recall: What about some form of recall? Why not let constituents fire their MPs between elections in limited circumstances? This works in BC – why not nationally?
4) “Ranked†Voting: Why not let voters pick their “top three†preferences at the ballot box, with the winner being the first candidate who can cobble more than 50% support together out of the ranked votes cast? The fact is that most MPs receive only a plurality in getting elected. With a ranked form of voting, the successful candidate will be able to show that they were chosen by more than 50% of the electors in his or her riding. This also gives smaller parties that are “everyone’s second choice†a fighting chance.
5) My Taxes; Parties’ Financial Base?: I have to pay political parties in Canada $1.75 per year to support their political activities. Should Canadians not be able to direct where that money goes – perhaps with a selection box on the bottom of the Income Tax form – so that their hard earned money does not go to parties that they do not support? Letting Canadians decide where their $1.75 goes would provide a very powerful incentive to political parties to behave between elections – misbehavior would have real financial implications. Whose money is this, anyway? Whose politics is this?
6) Proportional Representation: How about a PR Senate? While PR is really about representation of political parties, not citizens, the fact is that political parties (or at least leaders of political parties in the form of the PM) already appoint Senators – why not replace those patronage appointments with elections where Senators are chosen, province by province, on a proportional representation basis? This would ensure that the smaller parties that cannot elect anyone via the FPP system would still have a voice in the legislative/political life of the nation.
Conclusion: The system that we have has evolved over the years to reflect too much political party control of politics. The challenge is to adjust our basic institutions to undercut this control and restore “representative and responsible” government by citizens, through representatives who are responsible to them alone. This can be accomplished by: undercutting party loyalty through an expansion in the number of representatives; ending pluralities in voting; providing a system for replacing MPs and denying parties cold hard cash between elections, if they misbehave; and, finally, ensuring that even small parties are part of the legislative process.
Dear Mr. Turner,
I am a graduate of political science from Ottawa University who worked
in the Senate of Canada (for a Conservative Senator) for three years.
I no longer work in politics as I became very cynical and very
depressed with our political system and in particular, partisan
politics.
The very disturbing elements that have taken place recently have only
reinforced how I feel.
I am not in your riding, however, I wouldn’t mind relocating to Halton
and have you represent me in Parliament! You are exactly what our
political system needs. I find myself applauding at what you are
hoping to do to improve our political system. It is, in fact, the
people of Canada who go out and make an effort to vote who decide who
should represent them in Parliament – not the high ranking, unelected,
party official.
We need more Independents who care about the issue at hand – the
environment, health care, seniors, whatever it may be and NOT towing
the party line. We need more citizen participation and more ways for
the average citizen to communicate with their MP. Some actual
grassroots democracy!
I am sure you are bombarded with email, snail mail, and phone calls
and my hope is that the majority of them are positive and encouraging
of your efforts to change our political system. I thought I would
write to you and express my support and thanks.
Keep up the fight and thank you! We need more Garth Turner’s in Parliament!
Meghan
Harper and crew are continuing on their slide down hill poll after poll.
http://www.politicswatch.com/index2.html
How ’bout Mizz Asthma Lungs are Burning(Bunny Ambrose)blaming the entire lack of a green plan on the Liberal’s after they axed Energuide and support for wind power initiatives along with a bumch of other ‘Green’ programs .
She make me sick to my stomach .
Someone should tell her to ger a new harido as the 50′s are long dead .
Garth my wife and I lived in north Brampton for ten years and three years ago we moved down here where live is so wonderful and relaxed and away from the lousy life that GTA has become.
We both were members of the Tories for many years. Originally we lived in Guelph where we had an excellent MP in Perrin Beatty. We worked very hard for a MP candidate who was Tories of course. By the end of the election this bright lady was a totally drained gal because the party brass even told her how to dress.
This opened our eyes to the “Back room boys”, and shortly after that we gave up our membership. Never to be in a party again. Since then we have voted for the best person that we met and saw at all candidate meetings based on their answers to questions , be they Liberal, Conservative, NDP, and yes even Green last time out.
As you say that person is supposed to represent us. No they will not always agree with our position but that is their right as a majority elected MP, MPP or MLA as they are supposed to represent the whole electorate in their riding.
Garth you have our support in your stance to represent rather than just do as the “Back room boys” say.
Kay and Ernie
NS
Hello,
Once you have a Private Members bill drawn up I would like to add my signature to it. It high time that someone broke the Party lines and affiliations so their voices can be heard.
If you need signatures I am sure I can drm up a few, Thanks.
Mr. Skarsen
Nanaimo, B.C.
Hi Garth,
I am impressed by your stand! For too long democracy has suffered by a party
system that demands clones and trained seals. You are not my representative but
I wish that you were! Sometimes a voice in the wilderness is heard, and your
message is becomming loud and clear.
Best regards,
Sandy
Regarding “GETREAL” and his comments.
Your detractors who nevertheless add some substance to this blog should not be banned but GETREAL adds nothing but idiotic name-calling and vitriol. By all means go ahead and zap that waste of space. I suspect most will not lose any sleep over the loss.
There is a lot that can be learned from most contributors here (even if it only gets you thinking from a different angle) but GETREAL has nothing at all to offer. Now if he wants to play nice, you might consider letting him back in the sandbox but until then….ZAP!
With regards to your question, Garth, I’d say you shouldn’t censor anything unless you think that by hosting is you’d be exposing yourself to liability for defamation or what have you. It’s easy to skip the pointless comments, and deleting them would just get you labelled, however unfairly, as a hypocrite.
Why would the Canadian public care about your complaints when our parliamentary democracy has provided great stability in a country that could have been torn apart by separatist forces on more than a few occasions.
Canada faces as many destabilizing challenges as any nation in the world: two dominating nationalities (or as Lord Durham stated, “two nations warring in the bosom of a single state”; a decentralized federal system where power has increasingly been transferred to the provinces; massive immigration that is changing the demographics of our major cities; and a large disparity in wealth between the provinces.
Despite these forces, the parliamentary democracy that you want to re-create has provided remarkable stability as well as one of the highest standards of living in the world.
I don’t object to trying to improve our system, but you seem to have forgotten the main principals of conservatism in your constant pursuit of attention.
You need to be reminded of the instability of other democracies where MP’s are free to vote as they wish. You may want to investigate the history of Italian democracy.
I presume not being appointed a Cabinet position by Mr. Harper was a severe blow to your ego; however, your constant pursuit of attention has become an embarrassment.
Do us all a favour and resign.
Your truly,
Terry
Mr. Turner…
I have been following your viewpoints via, `Charles Adler`, whom I have been incorporating into my agenda, for a number of months now…
I was listening to what you had to say this day, and if you are serious, and not just full of the usual politically jettisoned, flotsam then, I would be be very interested in what it is you are purposing, as far as “revolutionizing“ our political system and, there are others who share your viewpoint of representation and ideals, as far as `the peoples` input into our political system is concerned…
I look forward to “speaking“ with you about this stuff…
Regards,
Stephen
hi
i have been keeping tabs on what has happened to you i think it sucks , but then again i have never voted conservative. i think the direction you are going is awsome! independant MP’s free speech , is a great idea! i wish you were my MP.
for all Canadians i offer my thanks in speaking up and refusing to be bullied!
mark valdock
guelph , ont
Hello Mr. Turner,
Thanks for your efforts!
I too have recently begun to have similar concerns about our political system, and have wondered what would be the outcome if elected officials were independant of party politics. (and represented their ridings first)
Although I am not in your riding I wish you success!
C. Campbell
Coquitlam, B.C.
Hello,
A quick word of support for your weblog and your effort to make our government more democratic. I sure wish every depute had such a weblog, maybe we should just make them mandatory after all, to answer and always remain accountable to their constituents.
Keep on going as an inspiration!
Big cheer,
Camille R.
Sherbrooke, Québec
Catherine: I believe politics seldom gets in the way of economics.
China needs many of our commodities especially with its population demanding a piece of the technology pie and the middle class life it can offer.
China and Japan are great trading partners even though their political ideologies are poles apart. I believe that our trade opportunities with China will continue to increase.
Garth,
I know what you are going through. A good friend of mine and political colleague had the same thing happen to him [Harper wouldn't sign his nomination papers] in Nepean-Carleton in 2003. The incident led me to quit the party as a staffer in an MP’s office and I have never looked back. I’m a firm believer that the two most important things in politics are loyalty and principle. IMHO, I remained true to both as I stood behing my friend when the party machinery came crahing down on him.
As for my friend, in the end, all the hard work, committment and progress that he made in Nepean-Carleton was washed down the proverbial toilet, or better yet, handed to a 25 year old parachute candidate from Calgary by the name of Pierre Poillievre. It was the wrong decision then — and in your case — it is the wrong decision now. I hope that unfriendly dick [or should I say friendly dictator] Stephen Harper goes down in flames.
Anyway, keep up the fight [and don't give up on democracy Garth] as there are still some of us out there who adamantly believe in more openess, transparency and the right to exercise a free vote.
First I want to thank you for standing up for the average Canadian against the abuses of the party system in Canada.
As your constituent, you can be assured of my vote in the next general election…
Hi Garth!
Keep up the good work!!!
What a great Canada this could be, if more politicians
would think like you.
100 more good independents would be nice!
Would be voting for that member.
Ron
Cornwall Ont
I was taking a shower and my fiancée, rushed in to let me know the recent news, about your dismissal from cabinet. All I can say is that you are better off in a position as an independent. I am proud to see that you have political morals, principles, sound objectives, charisma, not sure I can say that same of Mr. Harper or Mr. Caucus Chair Rahim Jaffer, who would be my peer, but does not have the credentials to be in that position, money and who his parents knew played a factor in him being place in a pro-reform/conservative riding. Because, it was definitely not experience and true dedication to the people.
Just days ago, I wrote a letter to Mr. Harper praising his new leadership on accountability, however, I am glad to say that it is still sitting in my email account as a ‘draft’ and will only be deleted. He was the lesser of two evils. I agree with your comments on Mr. Emerson, he is a smug son of a bitch, who should have stepped down as the public requested. Being involved in the forest industry, Emerson has no clue about the industry and what is currently needed by the people involved. I have lost of confidence in the baby boomer generation. I could run this country better, for I listen to people’s concerns and have no need to get rich on their backs. All I ask of them is to one day watch for my face and remember who I am and what I said to them, as I will need their support to implement change.
On the other side the Liberals Edmonton East, I worked with John Bethel, who was riding of the coat tails of his mother, and the other smug SOB Martin. I know Bethel is a high talker, nice guy but a high talker with no ability to lead. Once again, it’s who you know, not dedication, nor credentials. I have warned the BC Provincial government that bloging will be their demise.
Information is power and now that information can reach all in seconds, there is little room to disturb the truth. I was brought up on sound morals, my grandfather a war hero, who never thought of himself in that manner, taught me to defend the innocent and truth. I have engaged in an effort to reach out and inform people that we can change the nature of the political systems and that I am willing to do so.
I would like to know, how I may assist, how can I be more effective, I am asking you as you have insider information, I am currently engaged in finding a new path. You were right to blog, Canadians have a right to know. If I can help, let me know.
I will continue to look into your abilities, references, but I must say that I am happy with my first impressions. Please run for PM, the blogs will help you. I have and will continue to send out my comments on this matter to all you were involved in having you removed, as they were obviously threatened by your presence.
Kindest Regards, Best of luck Sir!
Dan
regarding your move to leave the party, it sounds like you are taking on the role of “Guardian of Democracy”, someone has to do it, keep at it and good luck.
I served almost 15 years as a senior officer in our riding association for the Reform Party, including several years serving as riding president. I also served as Inky Mark’s campaign manager when he was first elected in 1997. I was also the riding president when Inky Mark quite the Canadian Alliance and joined the DRC, and was a very vocal opponent to his decision. It created a very ugly fight within the riding association. At that time the rules of the Canadian Alliance generally (not always) supported the people within the riding, and thus Inky Mark was unable to take control of the resources of the riding. That was why Inky Mark was the only DRC not to return to the CA. If he could not have complete control over the riding association, he was not interested. With the union of the CA and PC, the rules changed, and the new party under control of Stephen Harper switched its support from the people of the riding to the sitting MP. Thus Inky Mark gained control of the riding’s resources. Because I continued to demand that Inky Mark be accountable for the decisions he had made, and did not give complete unquestioning support for Inky Mark, he had me removed from the riding association board (courtesy of party president Don Plett) even though the board had voted not to have me removed, and ultimately had my membership in the CPC revoked.
The reason I got involved in politics in the early 1990′s was the political process and accountability. I am less interested in the decisions made, and more interested in the way that decisions are made. This was a major platform of the Reform Party in the beginning, and it provided a unique opportunity to actually support something instead of simply opposing something. It is very rare that people actually vote based on a positive instead of voting for one party simply because they want the other party to lose. But as the Reform Party evolved, morphing into the CA and CPC, that positive got buried deeper and deeper into the political quagmire until it finally vanished. My experience has shown that no political party will commit suicide by bringing our democratic system into the 21st century. They have too many benefits in perpetuating the status quo. Change must come from without the party system, and I am very pleased to see you display the courage to do what is right instead of being just another cog in the political process.
I must say that I do not agree with many of your views, but that is irrelevant. They way that decisions are made are far more important that what the decisions actually are. If the process is fair and open, and the decision is informed, I can accept those decisions even if I disagree with them. A democracy thrives on debate, a dictatorship thrives on secrecy.
Democracy and freedom are two very different and distinct entities, and too many people confuse the two or consider the two to be the same. Freedom has nothing to do with the political process, but is instead a philosophy that a political system might try to achieve. Democracy is simply a process for making decisions. It involves a large group of people in the process, and thus to function properly it requires a free flow of information among the people involved. We don’t expect board members to decide on issues that they do not have information about, nor had the opportunity to debate the issue. Yet in Canada we expect voters to do exactly that. The Income Trust issue and Chretien’s GST issue are perfect examples. Whether the decision itself is right or wrong is irrelevant, the problem is in the decision making process.
I would like to contribute to the debate you have started, and support you in your endeavor. But my contributions include major reforms to the institution of Parliament and the Senate. You simply cannot increase the influence of individual MPs without shifting decision making power away from the PMO and putting it onto the floor of Parliament. You cannot increase the influence of Senators without transferring power away from the PMO and putting it into the hands of the provinces. So the bottom line becomes how do you decrease the power of the PMO without neutering the office. The idea that I tend to support is to separate the executive (the PMO) from Parliament. This involves a change in the voting system so that voters can separately contribute to the selection of the executive and the selection of their local representative. There also has to be a change in the motivation of voters, so that it becomes more attractive for voters to support something instead of settling on the lesser of two evils. There are several voting methods that accomplish this aside from the ‘First-past-the-post’ and proportional representation that should be considered.
It also requires taking a different view of political parties. Instead of the status quo that requires a political party to form a government, political parties should be viewed as nothing more than a lobby group. Their purpose is no longer to form government, but it is instead to elect like-minded people into the decision making body known as Parliament. Government becomes 311 individuals representing the diverse ideas and values of Canadians instead of government being a small group of Party leaders. As such, rules governing political parties should be more in line with any other lobby or special interest group.
Another important part of the required changes involves direct democracy. I find it quite ironic that the people most vocal about holding a plebiscite for the Wheat Board are the ones most opposed to the principle of direct democracy. Most elected representatives oppose direct democracy because they see it as an intrusion into their jurisdiction. What they fail to realize is that they are representatives, their job is to represent their constituents. But in the 21st century technology, transportation and communications have advanced to a point where people can represent themselves instead of relying on a middle man. The status quo insists that the MP decide what the priorities are and when they will represent any issue. With direct democracy it is the people who decide. Thus when people vote for their representative, their vote does not have to compromise on hundreds of issues in order to support one or two other issues. They can represent themselves on issues that they feel are important, when they feel it is important to press their issue. Voters would be free to vote for a candidate based more on local issues and the individual candidate and less on the national campaign or single issue of a political party.
A number of major changes need to be implemented, and simply tinkering with one or two issues does not resolve our democratic deficit. Democracy requires the free flow of information (thus we should also consider intellectual copyright laws as well) and requires people to take responsibility for their government. We have had close to 40 years now of governments usurping the responsibilities from the common people, and people have preferred the security of having government accept that responsibility. It will take a lot of work to overcome people’s fear of change, and then get them to assume the personal responsibility required by a democratic society. Democratic societies in history don’t fall in a violent coup, they tend to fall accompanied by the sound of applause.
Thank you for your courage. I hope that in the end you can present a detailed alternative 21st century democratic system that could replace our current outdated process. People need that concrete destination before they will even consider changing course. Presenting a complete system is the first step. Once the information is available, and people can debate and understand the reasons behind each issue, then they can start to become comfortable with the changes. It is normal human nature to fear change. Only information can calm that fear.
Keep up the good fight.
Dauphin, Manitoba
I followed your reasons for sitting as an independent and decided that they looked good. I hope that the fate of US Senator Lieberman gives you some encouragement in your new independent position.
Looking for evidence Garth’s breaking of caucus confidentiality?
I realize that the issue here is whose evidence one trusts. The Ontario Conservative caucus that ousted Mr. Turner gave the breaking of Conservative caucus confidentiality as a reason, on the day he was ousted. I would expect Garth Turner to deny it.
Yet Mr. Robert Fife of the CTV News stated that Garth Turner knows good and well why he was removed from caucus, and he knows where he has violated caucus rules that are true for any caucus.
Mr. Robert Fife is not a Conservative by any stretch of the imagination, and on this issue, I trust him more than any denial that Garth may try to make.
When the Opposition on Tuesday, October 24, uses Garth Turner’s blog to quote information about internal caucus matters, we have a pretty good illustration of how Garth has been helping the Liberal cause far more than the Conservatives.
If a player with the B. C. Lions puts team secrets on his blog so that the Montreal Alouettes, the opposition, can access their game plan in advance, that would be considered more treacherous than honourable.
Now we have people on this blog saying that this blog is Garth’s territory, so he can delete or edite or remove any comments that he wants.
So when Garth Turner sits on a party caucus, he is on the turf that the other members of that caucus control, so then, they also have the right to remove him from their turf if they see fit.
This is true of all political parties. It is simply the nature of the beast. I am not saying it is the best system, but Preston Manning has proven that it one who at one time espouses almost any form of censorship on public expression soon has to eat crowe.
Now we have Garth removing people from his blog whom in his view are simply incorrect. Well, who is the judge here of what is correct? The idea of a democracy is that all points of view be heard.
Where’s the democracy? Where’s the freedom of speech?
Put Garth Turner in charge of a party caucus, and I think it has become pretty clear that he would be no different.
If you have something new to add, got for it. Otherwise, just go. — Garth
Now , that Bush has had his wings clipped , Harper needs to realize a new direction away from the hard-right . Afgahnistan needs to at least be addressed – regardless of the outcome – because we debate issues in an open democratic society .
The Conservative policies on the environment are a joke . More needs to be done right away through tax incentives or by some other means to adequately push hybrid vehicle purchasers , tax breaks to solar panel consumers , tax breaks to public transit users , etc. The Government is supposed to have direction and purpose – not just reacting to threats or doubts !
What happened to you is a disgrace to the Conservative name , and yet another reason why I vote Green here in Alberta . Even though the Greens have a snowball’s chance in hell of forming the next provincial government , I strongly believe that without opposition , the Alberta Tories will destroy our environment . Who in Ottawa speaks out for the Alberta environment ?
Stay independent as long as you need to because obviously party politics as it is now doesn’t garrantee you anything !
Stay true , Garth , and all the best !
Yesterday, and today, have been a notable point in our democracy. I have enjoyed reading and commenting on your blog, and shall do so as time permits.
As I mentioned in my post there today, Lou Dobbs, has also stated what true democracy and representation is about. Hopefully, we cann all continue working towards a return to the days when ‘representative of the people; means exactly that.
Concerning this message: “I agree that Liz May should be in he House of Commons, but I don’t think this is the seat for her.
The Liberal candidate in that riding is a local firefighter, who freed slaves in Sudan, started up the local food bank and adopted a girl whose life would have been left for the slave lords.
It is a compelling story, and this guy is a true local hero. So, with all due respect to May: Liberal would be solid choice here.”
It seems to me if we don’t look after the climate change occurring in our planet, we will have other more serious things to deal with as well as save slaves, start food banks, etc.
Glenn Pearson is a fine man and human being. However the Liberals did little to address the serious issue of climate change with its coming higher temperatures, rising sea level and the resulting millions of homeless people and refugee camps. The conservatives have done little for the environment and appear to be a close-minded, controlling group under Stephen Harper. We need to get Elizabeth May in parliament along with many other Green Party Members.
All Members of Parliament in my humble opinion must see the movies, “An Inconvenient Truth and The Great Warming”. Maybe then our governments get serious because the information in these documentaries cannot be denied. In fact these documentaries are based on scientific fact and supported in the scientific community. When you sees the aerial pictures of Greenland in 1970 and then in 2005, it is fairly certain a wave of fear may wash over you as you can no longer be in denial. We need to remember that if our planet isn’t habitable, we are all goners. We can all contribute individually to stopping global warming and what plus it would be to have Elizabeth May as our leader.
I am a Londoner and a non-resident of London North Centre. I want Elizabeth May as a member of my federal government. I want someone who cares to work at saving our planet.
KPM
Garth,
I visit your blog daily because of interest in your posts. Comments are scanned for information and enlightenment. All the while I marvel that you keep your sanity, in dealing with the posts of idiots and neanderthal minds.
Posts that attempt to discredit you, that are vitriolic and have no relevance to the spirit of this blog don’t merit space and should be blocked. There would be no objection from those that wish to intelligently discuss the topics you introduce. To deep six GetReal and others like him who are four cards short of a straight would be a good start.
That’s my opinion, and I hope it is helpful with the difficult decision confronting you.
I have to ask the questions: What motivated the people who voted Liberal after all the lies and stolen money? What motivated people to vote in our latest dictator? Did they forget Mulrony? Can they read? I just don’t get it. After a century or so of self deception these fools just don’t seem to learn. The people can say that they do not accept the options presented. Choosing not to choose is a choice. If I give you turds and poison as your options to eat 6% of the people will tell me to go to hell. The rest will belly up to the table. They get what they voted for so I can only guess that 94% of them like getting screwed over and over.
I read above more attacks on Garth for giving us a new “None of the above” option. I just don’t get it.
To all the people who are trying to criticize Garth for only trying to represent the interests of the people who voted for him, I suggest that you read this example of the type of thing Garth does. I wrote the following letter to Prime Minister Harper and Minister of Finance Jim Flaherty and I cc’d Garth. This is a part of the letter I sent:
From: geoffrey_laxton@hotmail.com
To: pm@pm.gc.ca
Cc: garth@garth.ca; jflaherty@fin.gc.ca
Sent: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 2:39 AM
Subject: Average Canadian families gave 49 per cent of their income to government in 2004
Right Honourable Stephen Harper
Honourable James M. Flaherty
Why does the Government of Canada think that Canadians can afford to fork over half their hard earned money to the Government! (see article below) I can never afford to make any significant RRSP contributions, and those I have made in the past had to be de-registered to cover taxes!
As a citizen of this country working as hard as I can, handicapped by my demographic as a Generation-X cohort (I am 41 years old, born in 1965, the worst year economically in the entire 20th century according to Boom, Bust, Echo, by David Foot) and I am drowning. My wife is pregnant and I don’t know how I will pay my income tax bill for 2005 due to the fact that I was forced out of a stock position in a Diversifed Income Trust, a position I took to create extra monthly income in a tax advantaged manner so that I could afford to live. I was heavily margined and when the position was sold out it ironically created a large capital gain, even though it decimated my equity. The former Liberal Government decided to create uncertainty in the Income Trust taxation structure, and I was thus sold out by my broker in the crash of this market. I voted for the Conservatives because I thought that they would do something about taxes. My stock portfolio now has ZERO equity and my after tax pay cheque is $1100 every two weeks. My employment income in 2005 was $44,798 after payroll taxes I take home $29,000. If I sent all my money to CRA for the rest of this year, I still couldn’t afford to pay my tax bill, let alone mortgage, property taxes, food, utilities, transportation etcetera.
I thought that your Government was supposed to reduce taxes and all you did as far as I can tell is raise my payroll tax 1.5%. The GST cut is a consumption tax, but I can hardly afford to buy anything with after tax income, let alone afford further taxes. I am rethinking having a baby with my wife who is pregnant and the only strategy I can figure out within this tax regime is to sell our house, make a $31,306 RRSP contribution which represents my unused RRSP contribution room which I can never afford to contribute to due to tax, quit my job, deregister the money for the life long learning plan and go back to University for the rest of my life, get divorced and forget about making a living and having a family in this impossible country. I am beginning to hate Canada and it’s tax regime. I will never ever, ever get ahead in this country the way I am taxed. If I am forced into any of the above situations, I will devote 100% of my time and life into creating extremely detailed and savy multi-media campaigns publicizing to all Canadians and the world just how bad the tax regime is in this country and how it beggars Canadians simply trying to have a family. The only people I can think of who are able to get ahead in this country are Federal politicians, so I shall also run for Parliament.
Taxes are killing me. Please explain! I will not tolerate this anymore. Please do something!
Geoffrey Laxton
*****
Garth actually responded to me even though I just CC’d him on the message! I have yet to hear from Harper or Flaherty. Here is Garth’s response to me:
Thanks, Geoffrey. Well put. I will be borrowing some of your points for my own pre-budget submission. This government was elected to cut taxes, and I will keep the pressure on.
Thanks again,
Garth
Hon Garth Turner PC, MP, Halton
(905) 693-0166 Riding
86 Main Street, Milton ON L9T 1N3
House of Commons, Ottawa K1A 0A6| (613) 996-7046
daily news: http://www.garth.ca | daily blog: http://www.garth.ca/weblog/
email me: garth@garth.ca
*****
I have never in my life had such a personal and empathetic response to any enquiry I have ever made to the government in my life! So stop knocking Garth Turner!
DM
A long post but VERY worthy of the read.
Thank you. I personally needed to see your experience especially the first two paragraphs. I thought I was going crazy, now I know I am not.
What you describe in the body and end of your post is definitely worthy of discussion. Change is hard for people, but change in one of those things in life that is inevitable.
Hey Doug and everyone else that takes issue with my posts, I am just stating facts (which anyone can look up) and there is nothing wrong with it.
When Mr. Turner calls people bigots, taliban, blowhards, etc.. on the basis of just disagreeing with him I don’t see any of you protesting too much. I am just expressing my views and calling a spade a spade.
Real Democracy is about stating opposing views and challenging ALL of our elected officials on their words and the substance of their actions. As Mr. Turner dishes out so shall he receive. In order to keep himself relevant Mr. Turner has said some big words and set some high standards, does he measure up to the ideals he is selling? I don’t think so. In trying to wrap himself up in the banner of the lone ranger for truth, justice, and democracy he thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes. He may have done that with his new and naive fan club but not with me and everyone else that has 2 braincells and 2 eyes to know when they are getting suckered.
The fact remains that Mr. Turner is in contravention of his mandate and should resign. Mr Turner betrayed his party and those that voted for him by his own actions. Really there is no other issue here. False crusades and media events don’t change that. All of this in the end is much to do about nothing, Mr. Turner will effect no change, he will lose his seat in the next election which is coming soon, and we will soon be under the rule of another corrupt and inept government and it won’t matter if it’s liberal red or conservative blue.
This is digital democracy and freedom, if Mr. Turner doesn’t like it, then he can be the hypocrite that I know he is and ban me and who ever else offers hard criticism. He has already started doing this of course.
So let’s all be honest and say this is not a digital democracy platform but just a fan club.
Charles, is that you? — Garth
Garth:
I think you rock. As a person voting in London North Centre I strongly do not want Dianne Haskett – a.k.a. an AMERICAN fly-in parachuter, to win this riding.
The conservertives have lost much face in the last month. Not only because of you but also because of how Belinda was called a dog and then the liar denied it all.
I see no future in voting or the big machines. If I knew how to run as an Indie I would.
Keep on telling it like it is.
CD in London
GARTH!!!
Can ban GETREAL. His B.S. is getting annoying. If he has nothing to contribute make him go away. It’s just a ploy to steal your time and ours.
To kallie miller on 11.15.06 10:24 pm
We can do something. Google “Tom Bearden”. Those of you who don’t know about this (this includes Garth) should look too.
Garth, I think your case underlines the fact that we elect individuals to represent us rather than parties. As we look towards possibly reforming the electoral system at the provincial level we must keep that in mind. There are quite often individuals you would have represent you, despite their party, and some parties you support in general that have reprehensible individual members (cf Sam Bulte).
As for censorship, removing posts is technically censorship, but entirely necessary. Flame wars are so easily sparked on the internet, and so quickly swamp out any useful discussion. Perhaps move such posts to a playpen area for the misbehaving kids to scream as much as they want (and for the morbid reader to follow, seperate from the main discussion)?
Garth, best of luck to you and Elizabeth here in London!
Garth – if you want respectful debate on your blog, then why not “ban” Jackie Chans Left hand…. His statement is abusive. But, because he’s bashing a conservative, then, it’s OK, right?
“How ’bout Mizz Asthma Lungs are Burning(Bunny Ambrose)blaming the entire lack of a green plan on the Liberal’s after they axed Energuide and support for wind power initiatives along with a bumch of other ‘Green’ programs .
She make me sick to my stomach .
Someone should tell her to ger a new harido as the 50’s are long dead .
By Jackie Chans Left Hand on 11.15.06 9:10 pm “
Judy,
I thought so too – that China is just posturing. We import more from them than we export. It’s nice to see some principle stances, though.
I always thought that there were too many Desmaurais and Maurice Strong influences in the Liberal administration foreign policy with China. Btw: why are we sending millions of foreign aid to China, when they are just beefing up their military? Their military is probably the most strongest in the world.
Wow Garth!
Just read through all the comments for this entry and I must admit that I am rather amused at some of the entries. I think that perhaps you should not prevent these defamers and tort law candidates from posting, but as suggested previously, put them in the kiddies section, if you have one or have the resources to create one. Otherwise, toss the whiny children into the playpen and let them fight it out amongst themselves. If those of us who try to have well thought out comments posted, whether for or agin you, want to have a good laugh, we can go there. If you can’t do the above, then by all means hit the delete button.
To the people that say it’s only anti Harperists that support you and post positive comments in your favour, I would say have a look at ALL the comments posted. Not just the ones that you are interested in seeing to knock Garth down. There are many areas where I disagree with what Garth says and I post some of them in a manner to create discussion. Everyone of us here thinks differently, has different “hot buttons” and different ways of dealing with events that surround us.
I think Garth has every right to harbour not so nice feelings towards the CPC. They ousted him without providing one shred of evidence AT THAT TIME. I think it is fair to say that if the party had anything to substantiate their claims, they would have plastered it over every means of media when they so irresponsibly ousted Garth. In my opinion, if they would have said that they got rid of him because he was a pain in the butt and no other reason, people would have respected them more. The way the went about it (violating the promises they made during the campaign) smacks of deceipt and less than honest manipulation. Now they have had time to FABRICATE anything they want and whether they do or don’t, whatever they put forth to show as proof is suspect and in my opinion, worthless. I have been reading this blog since July and took the time to go back through every entry and comment because at first I thought this blog was just another CPC gimmick. My opinion changed after the time it took to read them all. I suggest anybody who has any doubts do the same, if you have what it takes to come to an honest conclusion, whether it agrees with mine or not.
Now, why do you think so many people are reading this blog and from so many different parts of the country? The answer is simple. Finally, here is a politician that is allowing direct access to him and in a very public manner. We can vent our frustrations for all to see. We can show our support or non support for whatever issue we feel it is important to be heard. Is Garth benefitting from this politically? Of course he is. What’s wrong witht that? He is after all a politician. It’s part of the job description to be known and garner positive publicity. I feel he is very lax on what we can and can’t say in here. He puts up with most of the ranting of some of the more….. shall we say less eloquent posts? However, there are limits and I couldn’t fault Garth if he choses to say enough and boot some posters. Case in point is Catherine. When I saw his comment and that he banned her, I wrote to him and he responded immediately and allowed her to post again. Hopefully with a be reasonable caveat attached.
So before you dip the pen in poison, think through what you want to say. Word it in a manner that gets your point across without being an idiot and I’m sure Garth won’t touch it.
As for some of his comments to specific posts, well I can tell you that if someone kicks dirt in my face, you may rest assured that I will have something to say about it. Think people. Garth is human too. He’s not some machine that doesn’t get upset with rantings and unfounded accusation against him. Why do people think that they can say whatever they want but he doesn’t have the same right? Grow up! If you cast stones, you better be ready to get some back and not whine about it!
Catherine: I think you are forgetting the economic benefits to Canada of having China as the soon-to-be leading consumer in the world, as one of our major trade partners.
Mr. Harper and gang would never forego $$$$$$ to big business here for the sake of “human rights” violations.
And China, who needs all the trading partners it can get to supply the growing demand for western consumer goods, will continue to accept criticism from the west in order to keep their masses supplied with goodies.
Garth, why is that you edit many of the comments that you do not like on here? Is that a fair way to present your blog to the public? You are making it seem as though you have much more support than you actually do by editing out many of the negative comments.
Here is mine again…let’s see if it remains this time or if you remove it once again to make yourself look like you have more support than you actually have…
You were unable to keep “internal†party policy confidential, as mentioned previously and so you were kicked out of the party…It’s like any business…either you are a team player and follow the rules or you get fired…You are nothing but a blubbering Narcissist…even the press is getting bored with your self centredness.
You are totally incorrect. NO comments have been edited, and only a handful of the most hateful, completely redundant or useless ones have been deleted. Period. — Garth
GET REAL
Get your facts lined up then present evidence, not media reports and opinions. One of your posts was not badly written but most are very similar to one person that I haven’t seen for awhile. Frank. Judge by actions not what you read in the papers and hear on the tube. I think we are all old (wary) enough to realize that the media for the most part sensationalizes everything in order to get ratings or circulation. If you are willing to accept verbatim what they have to say, how can you accuse Garth of wrongdoing when he supposedly does the same thing? Like I said, check your facts. Being a blowhard is being just that. A Blowhard that doesn’t accomplish anything. Garth is putting his believes into action, right or wrong. Can you say the same about yourself?
The only claim that I have seen Garth make is that his ideas and opinions have the support of a VAST NUMBER of Canadians. Perhaps I missed where he said a vast majority. Perhaps C. Parker can point to the specific place and time that Garth has stated a vast majority of canadians support him? Proof is in the puddin, as the saying goes.
Where, exactly, did I ever use those words? — Garth
Garth, to your question: should you edit or delete any comments? I would say no, delete nothing, unless foul or inappropriate language is used. This is a forum for free speech (thanks for that) and everyone is entitled to their opinion (even if it is misguided in some cases).
On a different note: if having a different opinion about how things might, or could, work means to be called a crank or another childish name then so be it. I am sure that Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr, Leonardo Da Vinci, Don Haskins (look it up or watch Glory Road) Don Cherry and many other trail blazers had/have the same ridiculing. Now before I get bashed on-line by some people, I am not saying that Garth in is the same league as the some of the great people mentioned, I only wanted to make the point that new idea’s come at a price (even if it is only name calling). Some work, some don’t. Democracy is about having the freedom to try and succeed .. or fail.
A few weeks back I was channel surfing and caught a “debate” in the House of Commons. My 11 year son who was watching the members shout, argue and carry on like poorly behaved children said to me “is that really what it is like in Government?” I replied “unfortunately it is”
Status quo is never a viable long term option – to paraphrase
“One small step for Garth, one giant leap for Canadian politics (is desired)
Hey Garth
Still looking for the exact words but in the meantime, I thought I would give this to you. It is actually from today’s blog entry For the Record. Maybe I got the wording wrong, but I will continue to look until I find it or have to recant. Anyways, here ya go. Thanks for the challenge.
“most understand I am more interested in how to fix a broken political system. The 2,100 emails we received today and all the action on this blog bear witness to the fact a goodly number of Canadians agree.
“Goodly number” refers to more than two thousand people speaking up in a couple of days. “Vast majority” of Canadians connotes a plurality of the national population. I’d argue there’s a difference. — Garth
I’m posting this comment here because of some the others that I find truly fascinating and in line with my thoughts. We talk about process a lot.
Open engagement in the discussion of much needed change in the process of gov’t is a theme that reoccurs here on the blog. Attempting to further the discussion is what I see many posters trying to do and Garth offers us a place to dialogue. Perhaps what I’m looking for is a place or a means to develop that dialogue. Constructively.
Now I want to say something about the ‘format’ of how to continue and further that discussion. My hope is that ideas presented in good faith whether good or bad are at least ideas and potential solutions. In terms of brainstorming and developing some of us want to do so as a work project and I keep seeing people wanting to and offering to help without knowing what they can do. Some want to banter and barb, some just want to vent or offer up support or criticism of anything they see that strikes their fancy.
One thing that strikes me at times is how hard it is in the format here on the blog to follow a thread. Now, I admit, I didn’t even know what a blog was until a year ago. I have however utilized the forum format for many years. I wonder then if it would be a good idea to have a format where we could follow the thread of a discussion by going from here which is a stream of comments to perhaps the forum format and even be able to identify with authors that often or always produce comments/dialogue that further a thread? (I could chose to click on what pete has to say and skip getreal altogether)
We seem to have so many topics here that digress all over the place. Say for example we want to work together with Garth in developing threads or paths, can we improve the process, the format? What of moderators? Perhaps Garth could pick posters that seem reasonable willing and able? What do folks think about organizing our dialogue a little more? I mean the blog could still be a place where Garth starts a thread of discussion for debate, but when it starts to go all over the map, it’s hard to bring folks together that want to brainstorm together and share ideas and develop them. Garth seems to identify issues that bring us all here, but where do we go from here?
Just some thoughts on developing format, in hopes that we can all work together to the same goal. Constructive criticism is welcome. Telling me I’m wacko is not.
Pete, DM, Irate, Garth? Is anyone interested to discuss ‘how’ we get focused with the threads that interest us in topics that Garth introduces?
Garth,
Should you edit/delete comments? No matter what you do there are disadvantages, but you don’t want to feed the trolls by deleting them.
What I’m concerned about is what you do with the comments. Obviously you shouldn’t govern your actions or even gain insights of citizens moods from them. Some will contain interesting information you should pursue, but online forums like this are not reflective of the diversity of views that exist in any riding.
I also think you should look at those of us who are visible with who we are. I am using my real name and a URI that points to a website that I host. I believe that if we want to be treated as citizens we should act live citizens, and part of that is using our legal names. I know this view is controversial online, but it is what I believe.
Cant find the exact words Vast Numbers just yet Garth, but I will keep looking and let you. For now, I have to take care of that pesky chore called work. haha. take care
From your blog dated 10:19:06 2:09 am
“Not ever being able to put one past my wife, I told her that the best thing about my day was how a million people had cared enough to come read my blog, that hundreds had commented – many positively, that six hundred emails had flooded in, melting my Berry, that the radio guy in Victoria told me their switchboard was lit up, that my riding executive pledged their troth, that our constituency office was overwhelmed with support calls and that I had people getting on planes to Ottawa to help me out this afternoon. And, as Esther told me a while ago, I don’t know the half of it yet”
Garth
just read ur comments about my post in regards to Vast Numbers vs Vast Majority. Perhaps I didn’t put forth my comment properly. I was saying that I had NEVER seen you use the term VAST MAJORITY. I believe that I have seen something you wrote stating that VAST NUMBERS of Canadians support, or perhaps a better word would be share, your opinions and ideas. Maybe I worded my post wrong or you are so used to some people bludgeoning you that you misunderstood. Either way, I thought I was making the point that you DON’T claim to have the support of the vast majority of canadians.
Richard on 11.15.06 3:54 pm
All I am saying is that most people who post here probably are outside his riding. Cheers!
Actually I borrowed the name Mizz Asthma from Josie Erent .
I like it so much and is so appropriate I decided to use it .
Ambrose is nothing more than a mental midget who spouts whatver PMSH says .
Christ! you can see the pull string on her back .
No, she is a disaster as an enviornment minister .
Don’t expect me to apologize for speaking the truth you nit wit .
I would like to receive some feedback from other visitors to this site. Do you feel comments like the above add to our discussion, or are simply posted in an attempt to discredit me, and therefore the entire debate contained herein? Is it censorship to remove similar posts in the future? Should I be devoting my time and resources to publishing material like this? Please – some feedback would be helpful. I am trying to provide a constructive and open forum for Canadians, but am also mindful of providing a platform for those who want nothing of the political forums or openness that this represents. — Garth
Give him a separate page to spout off on Garth .
When we need a good laugh we can surf on over .
He adds nothing to the debate nor is he constructive .
The ad hominum attacks are getting wearisome .
Getreal is the one who has no understanding of what a ‘true’conservative is .
It is not a Reformer/Alliance member with a new suit .
From :
Sent : November 16, 2006 7:01:50 AM
To :
Subject : Your October 11, 2006 e-mail
November 15, 2006Mr. Geoffrey Laxtongeoffrey_laxton@hotmail.comDear Mr. Laxton:Thank you for your further correspondence of October 11, 2006, in which you mention personal income tax relief. We believe that Canadians pay too much tax. They should have greater opportunity to reap the rewards of joining the workforce and, once in the labour market, keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars, so that they can invest in the things that matter most to them. Looking forward, we will develop a broad-based economic plan, including measures to reduce taxes, to promote a more competitive, productive Canada and get results for people. Department of Finance officials and I are continually reviewing tax matters. We recognize the need to ensure that the existing system is as fair and as current as possible. In this regard, your comments are welcomed and appreciated.Thank you for communicating your concerns. Sincerely,James M. Flaherty
Judy,
Your statement “Mr. Harper and gang would never forego $$$$$$ to big business here for the sake of “human rights†violations.”
So did the “quiet” diplomacy work when Mr. Chretien (and the Desmarais family) and Mr. Martin (and Maurice Strong) to decrease human rights abuses?
Amnesty was on Mike Duffy yesterday and stated that this “quiet diplomacy” had NO effect.
So let’s try more public focus. Of course, Canada’s businesses will still want to trade with China – their poor stakeholders want their quick buck. Just an example, Nortel announced recently that they were laying off Canadian employees and hiring employees in China.
Anyway, I’m glad that Mr. Harper has taken a more public stance.
I still want to know why we are sending China “foreign aid”. My god, the amount they spend on their military, could feed and provide decent living conditions for their people! They actually spend more than USA!
This China thing and Human Rights, it all a game, all one has to do is look within Canada and you will learn what Ottawa / Parliament thinks about Human rights.
Tainted Blood, Agent Orange, the use of mustard gas on its own soldiers in Alberta and my god look at the Workers Compensation through out this country, it is a disgrace.
Look at the wy Canada has treated it Native community, it black community and now they are targeting muslims.. so to kick at China is nothing more than the actions of a fool. I say clean up our own mess hear at home in Canada.
People are going without , while political parties and the back room hacks use the taxation system to steal from the taxpayers. We got problems and hopefully Mr. Turner has opened the door , to start the clean up.
No my friends, Canada has the blood of many of its own citizens on its hands
Roger Armbruster,
I’m sorry, but you haven’t really addressed my request for evidence. You’ve made a great deal of meat of a lot of finger pointing, but there is (to the best of my knowledge) no public evidence for the accusation of violating caucus confidentiality.
I’m eager to see real evidence. Please provide it.