Today in QP, Belinda Stronach asked a tough question about those government cuts to women’s programs. You wouldn’t have heard it watching TV, but she was heckled more or less continuously while doing it. I sit eight feet away, and couldn’t hear her speak when I took my earphone out.
Tonight as I was checking out my groceries at the supermarket a mile from Parliament Hill, Belinda was checking out hers at the next cash register. It’s the same for her as it is for me, and about 300 other MPs – travel in from across the country, go straight to the office and the House and media interviews, then worry about having enough lettuce in your Ottawa apartment.
It’s definitely not a normal life. Being an MP completely disrupts your personal routine and that of your family. The travel is incessant, the diet generally atrocious and the pressure intense. For everything you do, there are critics and people who wish you to fail. The media is always watching and listening. Opposition politicians are lying in the weeds. There is no charity, no goodwill, no second chance and no benefit of the doubt.
Nowhere is that driven home more poignantly than on the floor of the House of Commons, where ridicule, sarcasm, humiliation and belittlement are tools of the trade. I watched today as one of the questioners made a minor verbal gaffe – just a mispronounced word in the heat of the moment – and the benches opposite roiled with laughter. You know, the open-mouthed kind designed to be seen, mocking, and to make you feel like crap. And it works.
I mention this because while Belinda Stronach is a controversial woman whose actions have turned her into a political target and a household name, she also gets an extra dose of that crap simply because she is female. So, actually, do just about all the women in the Commons, in varying degrees according to how much of a threat they are. The place is so dominated by old white guys in suits (like me) that it’s easy for it to slip into misogynistic ways. Almost without noticing.
This is no defense of Belinda, because she can sure take care of herself, but on this day when Stephane Dion repeated an oft-heard commitment to see more women elected, I really wonder if much will change. The whole system is geared towards men with wives at home to look after them and the house and the kids and the dog, so they can flit back and forth to Ottawa. Nomination contests are often very expensive and usually unsuccessful – and suited more to career guys who can take such a flyer. And the Parliamentary experience for women can itself be atrocious, as my female colleagues tell me in every conversation. This place is needlessly partisan, with a climate of mistrust and deceit and an ever-present need to destroy people who might actually have something to offer.
And that may be the best argument possible for getting more women elected.
Hey, come to think of it, I served in the cabinet of the first woman ever to be a Canadian prime minister. And she didn’t throw me out!
67 comments ↓
Agree it is needlessly partisan. I’ve gotta think more would be done if it wasn’t. I’ve also gotta think that if there were more women in that place, who tend to be more cooperative and conciliatory (not in every case, but generally speaking), it would be less partisan.
“I served in the cabinet of the first woman ever to be a Canadian prime minister. And she didn’t throw me out!”
But she got soundly booted out by the Canadian electors, not only going down to defeat herself, but leaving the Tories with a small rump of only 2 MPs from which it took years to recover from.
Interesting, the one woman who did get re-elected in that democratic vote of 1993 was not Kim Campbell, but rather Elsie Wayne, who then became 50% of the Tory caucus!
Garth, I think you think that being an MP is an exceptionally hard career. That the work load is unusual or that its hard or even that your job security sucks and therefor your pensions should be better.
Well guess what, this is what a major percentage of Canadians have to deal with too. This is exactly what the economy has come to.
A huge percentage of the jobs in this modern economy require the same type of travel, way less job security, and significantly longer hours. The difference? They don’t get fancy government pensions, they aren’t as well paid and they don’t get to have ’sessions’; no its every day a year with maybe 4 wks off if you’re lucky.
What you get, that the rest of us don’t is the ability to make news, debate in the court of public opinion and have a voice in the HoC.
So what are you going to do with it?
So, you wonder why more women are not in Parliament? A woman has to have 3 times the skin-thickness of a man to survive there.
Yes, the system is geared towards men. Your idea of income-splitting to keep wives at home will help to keep women in their place. Yes siree, that’s where they belong!?!? Don’t like their new-fangled ideas anyway, eh?
Garth, do we elect people on the basis of their gender, or on the basis of personal merit?
How will Stephane Dion, for example, increase the number of women in his caucus as he has promised to do? What if the democratic process does not yield that result? Should the leader of the party, then, over-ride the democratic process at the constituency level to enforce that a certain per centage of women get nominated to run for office regardless of how the people vote?
Are we going to increase the representation of women by the grassroots process of democracy, or by the top down process of the party leader who simply parachutes his own candidate into the nomination process, and insists on his choice, regardless of how the people vote?
If we simply trust the people to do it right, it seems to me that political leaders should not be making the decisions based on gender alone as to who will or will not represent the people in a given constituency.
Further, should it not concern people like Stephane Dion that even within the Liberal Party of Canada, that the only woman to run for the party leadership at the recent Convention came in dead last?
I am surprised that Belinda chose not to run when she could have, and realized what a deficit of female candidates that there were running for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada. She could certainly have added some glamour to the Liberal leadership race.
Garth, I’m glad to see that you’ve come around and no longer think that women’s equality is just “socialist stuff”. You’re absolutely correct, the shameful under-representation of women in the Canadian Parliment is a national disgrace. What do you see as solutions to this problem? How can we increase the number of women in the House of Commons?
Just another reason why this country FINALLY needs a proportional representation system (maybe in combination with a majority system).
BTW, the other day i watched one of those older MPTV-clips from October when you, Garth, first came back for a little town hall meeting, right after you’ve been booted from caucus. One thing in this clip really struck me: As soon as there was mention of a proportional representation system, the old (fashion) guys were making loud, dismissing remarks (which where abated smartly by the MP saying “yea, eh” to move on with a different topic). This shows how anchored some people are to the way things have always been, maybe afraid of change – I don’t know.
Just have a look at this guys:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_member_proportional_representation
This is how i vote in my home country, and to me it only makes sense!
Last of a question for Garth:
What would it take for a country like Canada to actually accomplish a change of its electoral system? (feels like mission impossible). AND… what can a regular “joe blow” do in order to contribute to this? Please, I would really really be interested in your expert opinion!
ttyl
Tobi
blah blah blah.
whine whine whine.
pity me pity me pity me.
Give us all a break, those that have two brain cells to our name are not buying into any of this. Pity for a politician is a wasted emotion, especially for the whole lot that we find on the hill. You are just as cynical and twisted as everyone there, so cut the crap. You just happen to be losing the game.
As for your nostalgia of working for the first woman Prime Minister (when you also happened to be a Minister and not just a dejected back bencher) – GIVE US ALL A BREAK! Ya, she didn’t throw you out, but she destroyed the PC party and brought it down to 2 seats!!!! But in your self-delusional calculus this was the good old days.
You are wasting everyone’s time here, you are getting nothing done. The CPC and its leadership already knows what it is going to do in the run up to the next election, and no matter what you try to take credit for the decisions around the budget have already been made and you are not a contributing factor to them. There was other MPs supporting income splitting, this wasn’t exclusively your idea, so even that probably had little or nothing to do with you. You are a lame duck and your goose is cooked no matter which way you look at it.
Garth, suck it up, move on and resign!
While I’m at it I may as well post this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestag
as well… just for those who like me find it interesting to compare systems in oder to learn and form an opinion as to whats best.
I know you’ve jumped the shark when you start defending Belinda. It’s going to be fun to watch Stephane try and set quotas on gender in the next election. The guy really thinks he got a mandate from his Party. The reality is that he is a place-holder until the Liberals can re-group and get some serious folks like Manley, et al; to run for leader. Stephane will discover that the party organization won’t put up with quotas on candidates. Call the Liberals what you will, champions of mediocraty is not one of them and that is just the level of ability you get when you use any type of quotas to fill a job.
As a woman, I find that any affirmative actions in 2006 is a male marginalization of women. It says “there, there, little woman, we will take care of you…”
There have been strong women over the decades (way before Belinda) – amoung them Charlotte Whitton, Deborah Grey, Barbara McDougal(spelling?), Hazel McCallion, Margaret Thatcher, Sheila Copps, etc.
Even in Stephen Harper’s administration, Helena Guergis(spelling?), Rona Ambrose, Bev Oda, etc are strong women. They are intelligent, articulate, witty, and take the Liberal and NDP “hair” insults on the chin.
What I find is so ironic, is that Belinda comes out “strong” on women representation – yet in her own family business Magna, there is NOT ONE woman sitting on the board of directors and officers.
http://www.magna.com/magna/en/investors/governance/directors/default.aspx
I think that there is one simple way to get more women in politics and at the same time not alienate men who would like to run. Just pass a law that says every party must alternate between men and women.
Also we need to stop this idea that politics is a career. Eight years and your out would also make sense. lets open up the system to new people not keep it closed. If you haven.t been in for eight years you can run that simple.
The thinking seems to continue to be, “If only we had more women candidates, then we would have more women MPs, because of course women will vote for women.” Wrong! Of the 380 woment candidates in the last election, only 64 were elected (less than 17%). This tells me that, for the most part, the gender of the candidate is irrelevant, and that it’s an insult to women to think they will vote for a woman just because she’s a woman. Issues and policy are just as important to women voters as they are to men. If politics is as nasty as you say, maybe women are the smart ones to stay out of it.
I just caught the show on TV Ontario about dual citizenship, and the matter of ex-patriots and taxes came out. I would write to my MP here in Kelowna but seeing he is part of your old caucus I will not get anything but platitudes for an answer. I am moving out of the country next spring to retire in the Philippines with my Filipina wife. Mr. Coyne brought up what do we owe Canada for our citizenship. I am not sure but my grandfather who never formally took Canadian citizenship, but was one due to his birth within the commonwealth, served in both world wars, my father was a Canadian soldier for 35 years and I served for 22 years. In comparison to the legacy of my family I wonder how Mr. Coyne stands up. For the tax portion of the discussion, that is more complicated than it appears on the surface, Canada has actively pursued and made tax treaties with many countries around the world, in order to protect citizens and immigrants from having to pay taxes in two countries on the same earnings. In the case of the Philippines it was signed in 1977, to change arbitrarily this tax situation would break many such treaties. Currently I am entitled to my Canadian Forces Superannuation, and Canadian Pension Plan at age 60, and that won’t change as I paid for them, I am also entitled to Old Age Pension when I turn 65, which is just 11 years away, but will not be entitled to any of the supplements. As for dual citizenship, it is something I will consider when I am eligible to become a citizen of the Philippines provided I do not have to renounce my Canadian citizenship to do so. Similar to Mr. Dion’s situation where this would be a gift from his mother, this will be a gift to my wife. I am not asking for any special consideration here, just what has always been the means of doing things. I don’t even plan on returning for the 6 months each year in order to keep my medicare intact, I will use the medicare available to me in the Philippines and pay for extra coverage under the Public Service Health Plan, these fees will actually triple. If I receive dual citizenship in the Philippines I will be proud to call my self a Filipino, and will always proudly proclaim myself to be a Canadian. A lot of the furor I believe is racially motivated, as Mr. Paiken pointed out, Tony Clement has dual citizenship and it was not an issue during the Conservative leadership race. There are also a few Conservative members who hold dual American/Canadian citizenship, and I am sure if we went through the list of honourable members we would find many others who hold dual citizenship. During the Hezbollah war, many of the posts I read in the Globe and Mail online were thinly veiled racist comments. The same seems to hold true for Mr. Dion, he has never held a French passport, and is not breaking any Canadian laws. The wisest thing he can do right now is let the storm blow over, those who are complaining the loudest will never vote Liberal anyway.
Good to see you get a little air time on TVOs The Agenda last night. Its one of the few non partisan public political discussion forums outside the web. Hope to see more of you (and other non “politicaly correct” back benchers) on the show.
I am not trying to stir the pot, but who puts people into the seats of power? We do. Men and women. So why are we even saying that the government has to do something about it? We should just do it.
In the last municipal election, out of the five seats we voted for, my wife and I voted for 4 female candidates. None of them was elected. Maybe politics is a old boy’s club, but the voters seem to be the ones who won’t vote more women in. Male and Female voters.
Sure the women in the house get heckled. Maybe a little more in some ways and a little less in others. Why do we even notice? Because they are women, so people in general are still stuck in the mode of women need more protection then men. Once we all get over that, I believe things will settle down and we’ll see women running the show completely. Then us men will be wondering what happend and asking for people to notice that we are treated unfairly.
Catherine – good one. Solid platinum. I do not see Belinda as representative of the average woman, although she seems to think that she does. If Belinda were a male, I would not vote for her, either. Deborah Gray, Hazel McCallion – now we’re talking strong and intelligent people.
Those interested in mixed PR systems should examine the Danish system. They eliminate the party lists of hacks lined up for seats without effort. To get a PR seat you must have been a candidate running for a directly elected seat. Those getting the PR seats, are those who did well relative to others in their party, without winning in the direct elected seats. This encourages good people to run in seats where their party has little chance of winning. This improves quality of candidates running.
Women are at a disadvantage when it comes to running and serving in elected offices. They do add incredible value to public office. However, Belinda…ahhh Belinda. She doesn’t have a clue what she stands for, she is an opportunist, looking for personal gain. She is NOT serving the residence of Newmarket-Aurora well,…she is out to get Belinda headlines, and that is it. Yes, there are valuable women MP’s that contribute greatly and add much to public office — Belinda is not one of them.
So Kim Campbell didn’t throw you out, eh!
Due to her predecessor, Mr. Mulroney, she didn’t have time. It wasn’t Kim the electorate didn’t like, but the former PC party.
And guess what, Mr. Mulroney is one of PMSH’s role models!
PS. Find a picture of Dudley Do Right of the Canadian Police, place it along side one of Mr. M….they could be twins!
Like I said, politics sucks. — Garth
There seems to be three topics here.
1/ The issue of the stress and issues related to extensive travel and living a separate life from home.
As for this there are no answers or recommendations that would help. It is a choice one makes in their career. It has advantages as well in life and that is the opportunity to meet and work with individuals from all over Canada and to develop friendships. I have traveled internationally a good part of my life and although the hardships of being away are there I could never trade off the friendships and insight I have had the fortune to experience. It is a choice not everyone can make.
2/ The disadvantages for a woman in politics.
The above makes it perhaps a difficult decision for a female to make and thus less run who may have the qualifications. That is a fact and can not be changed. I have worked with many good intelligent women at all levels of management and let me assure you that they can handle the issues and stress. As to the conduct in parliament it is no different for men and I respect women a little more in the fact that they can handle themselves quite well. Some continually seem to stress this as a weakness but not so in my experience. It seems to be a great topic for our Press experts. Sells to readers but not fact.
3/ The conduct of parliament
The conduct in Parliament, with the Press and during campaigns is distressing but has been this way all of my adult life. Probably a major reason why good people chose not to run male or female. We as time goes on get closer to the USA type of personality assassination both in the Press and within a Party which will only destroy public respect further and caters to the obsessed minority who love this crap and are the most vocal in support.
The only way it can change is for the public to demand it thru who they elect.
On another topic.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler AG and Honda Motor Co. have joined together to train their suppliers to avoid buying materials made by slaves in Brazil.
What a joke!!! Companies continue to move to Mexico and Asia for slave labour to reduce cost. How can they say $1.64/hr in Mexico or $0.35 in China is not. These people can barely live.
Garth,
“The whole system is geared towards men with wives at home to look after them and the house and the kids and the dog, so they can flit back and forth to Ottawa.”
Ah, I think that is what Steve considers ‘traditional’ marriage!
It would be funny were it not so stupid. Women have screamed for equality for decades, and they totally deserve 100% equality.
The U.S. tried to pass the The Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) wherein, women got absolutely no favour because of their gender.
Oh my GAWD, the screams were deafening. WHAT? They would have to take responsibility for their decisions? They would have to be held accountable for support, alimony, etc…they would truly be treated equally to men.
No, today’s world is still tilted and unfair.
As to being an MP…I am not that much of a masochist! LOL
Ken,
Sounds like Nike has started a training subsidiary, eh? LOL
Hey “TrueConservativeGuy”,
whats your agenda? For someone who believes in Garth’s political death, you pay quite a bit attention to him and his website(as your regular posts convey). And whats it with you anyways? We finally have a MP who makes exceptional efforts to bring parliament to the people like nobody has ever done before, and all you do is bash him for telling us the facts!
So here’s my plea: Try to respect others whether you agree with them or not. Address Garth in a way that you would speak to your grandmother – again, with respect! Its bad enough that many MPs aren’t able to respect one another in parliament, which is exactly what Garth was trying to talk about.
Yes Bill but it continues to grow all to support a Global economy. What even Dodge wants banks opened up to support a Global economy.We even have Global warming!!! And we are all working together to support that!
“As for your nostalgia of working for the first woman Prime Minister (when you also happened to be a Minister and not just a dejected back bencher) – GIVE US ALL A BREAK! Ya, she didn’t throw you out, but she destroyed the PC party and brought it down to 2 seats!!!! But in your self-delusional calculus this was the good old days.”
How true! Those were not the “good old days,” but very trying times for the PC. The only good thing that came out of the 1993 election for the PCs was that 1/2 of the new caucus were women!
Or I should say, “1/2 of the new caucus was a woman, one woman–Elsie Wayne–who was left to pick up the pieces after Kim Campbell’s atrocious election campaign of 1993.”
To bave been a part of that administration is nothing to gloat over!
Show me where I ‘gloated.’ — Garth
Let’s cut to the chase.
There is gender discrimination wherever. Women want the same rights as men. They have them. Men want the same rights as women. They have them. Where things start to break down is the responbilities come into play and how well we deal with them. I happen to know a male nurse. The discrimination he faces every day is ridiculous. From men, he is either gay or effiminate. From the women that work with him, he doesn’t have the compassion like a women.
Bill brought up the bill in the States. Once again, people want all the privileges and only the responsibilities they want to accept.
So from my point of view, until people accept the whole package, irregardless of what it is, discrimination will always be present. Either we deal with it or we just accept that each gender simply does certain things better than the other and that certain individuals can do both, but not all. It is a physical and pshycological fact.
“Hey, come to think of it, I served in the cabinet of the first woman ever to be a Canadian prime minister. And she didn’t throw me out”
A perfect pair indeed! Both lasted long enough for a cup of coffee!
TrueConservative – You just proved Garth right. ha!
And you’re a testament to why women (and probably a lot of men, too) don’t want to go into politics. For some reason people like you think it’s ok to be rude publicly towards MPs and others. Last I checked, they were people too. If I spoke to a colleague at work like that I wouldn’t be around long. There’s no reason why an MP (man or woman) should be subject to such rediculous behaviour. …I’m trying to imagine my next executive meeting at my place of employment where we heckle each other, call each other names, use derogatory language … It simply just doesn’t happen.
And you know what else? You get taken WAY more seriously when you communicate with respect.
What is needed is better marketing. THat’s right, all these pinheads who are heckling are also running in elections. I don’t have the equipment but I think CPAC shows the house doesn’t it? They should be recorded and then the image of them laughing should be posted with their salaries and given to their opponents at the next election. An interesting documentary shot would be showing YOU and the other independand and contrasting that with the ‘party pinheads’. I’m assuming that you and the other independant really don’t have anything the heckle about-and hopefully wouldn’t.
Ken,
“it continues to grow all to support a Global economy”
Yes, and all the supporters of Globalism should read and seriously comprehend John Ralston Saul’s excellent and forthright book ‘The Collapse of Globalism: and the reinvention of the world’
Saul shows, to anyone possessing an IQ of 100 (average and normal), that globalism has FAILED, and will get worse and worse. South America has rejected it in many countries as has the Phillipines.
Canada should be separating from the U.S. in many arenas. We should be building our own vehicles designed for Canadian conditions as one example.
For a nation that produced marvels like the AVRO Arrow, Ski-Doo, insulin, the telephone, radio, Canada Arm, and leads in medical research, we are seriously suffering from an inferiority complex that is undeserved.
Pete,
“Either we deal with it or we just accept that each gender simply does certain things better than the other and that certain individuals can do both, but not all. It is a physical and pshycological fact.”
Well said. The problem is that lawmakers seem to lack the ability to NOT stereotype, which I believe, and hope Garth will comment on, is due more towards patronizing lobbyists than a lack of ability to go beyond the black and white mentality that too many social ‘fixes’ present.
You are correct when you make reference to the general uproar caused by a member who misspeaks or mispronounces a word in the Commons. The other day, Jack Layton made reference to the subsidies given to Big Ass, and was angry that such subsidies would continue. You will also recall Michael Coren’s diatribe on CFRB against fat people. He was initially shelved, only to later return to full Rush Limbaugh type broadcasts. To make a long story short, I sent Jacko Layton my picture, with the instruction that he was to ‘come and get me.’
http://eresfeo.com/images/Fat_women.jpg
I’ve always been interested in politics and would someday consider a run at it. However, as a decent person works hard in the community and lives life without drama, when I see sexist, immature comments from pigs like Peter MacKay, it really make you change your mind. The Grade 8 antics in the House of Commons is what turns women off. Until some decorum returns to what should be our most highly esteemed group in Canada, I hate to tell you, but you won’t see more women on the ballot.
To: Tobias and Sheryl, Mr. Turner is being shown greater respect than he gives others that disagree with him.
I need not remind you of the ‘wonderful’ and hateful one liners he has thrown around here. He certainly doesn’t talk to people like they are his grandmother, and I don’t think he is looking for that either. If Garth can’t take even a small amount of what he dishes out, then he should shut down his website, declare his disbelief in digital democracy, and resign.
This environment is certainly not a corporation. In fact if Mr. Turner was part of a real corporation, he would have been fired a long time ago and wouldn’t even have the courtesy of a resignation given the disloyalty he has shown his leadership. But thankfully democracy is not a corporation and Mr. Turner is still here full of piss and vinegar, something that I respect about him and our system.
As for supporting Garth because he reports to us everything that happens on the hill, I don’t care about that. I sent an MP to Ottawa, not a reporter, we already have enough brain dead media, we don’t need anymore thank you very much.
I know politics is dirty, it has been for a long time, even when Garth was part of the leadership of the worst government Canada had seen in years. That government that he was part of deserved the crushing defeat it received, and it wasn’t because ‘politics sucks’ in Garth’s words. It was because they failed and did not perform and were leading our country to ruin. The people spoke and they were gone. So you see the system works just fine, we don’t need an army of independents, when parties fail they are voted out.
What matters (speaking as a constituent) is what he gets done for Halton. I mean specific real and tangible things for his local community. I don’t care about reports and policy positions, and the reselling of ideas that already exist. I don’t care about unnecessary opposition to his party because things don’t work the way he remembered. Things still work, just differently. Political institutions evolve and rules for projecting influence change, if you can’t change with them, you shouldn’t be doing the job.
Getting back to the women’s issues in this posting, the fact is the current income splitting structure proposed by Garth will not do anything for women that are their spouses EQUAL. Yet all of this dribble about women’s rights and role in government and we don’t have a tax policy that honors that. So all of this women talk doesn’t meet the policies and actions being proposed by this MP. It is just a politician that is wagging the dog – opps sorry Belinda, no pun or insult meant by that line.
Why do I continue to post here? Because I think the best thing I can do is be a counter to this whole forum devolving into a fan club. You want digital democracy? Well I am part of the loyal opposition, along with many other great posters. If you would have read some of my other posts, you would see I have supported Garth where he was right. I am a strong voice of opposition when I think he is wrong and not facing up to the facts. Translation: When someone is being a political weenie, I will throw them on the barbecue for a good roasting. That is real citizen based democracy in action.
I believe we can take a page out of Governor Schwartzenegger’s book when he found his house to be unworkable he devised non-partisan commitees and ordered them to work together .
Every one has a say and all are equal .
Now they have a forward thinking/looking government that has done a lot of good for Californians .
Maybe we should send a bunch of MP’s down there to study how its done in the real world .
Ya, she didn’t throw you out, but she destroyed the PC party and brought it down to 2 seats!!!!
At the risk of being called a troll again by some anonymous horse’s ass, it is hardly fair to say that Kim Campbell ‘destroyed’ the Conservative Party.
Preston Manning and the Reform party certainly contributed to the 1993 debacle by splitting the right of centre vote.
If you combine the results for Reform/Conservative in that election, the Conservatives would have had 100 seats, 24 of which would have been in Ontario. Not a great result, but perhaps a better picture than what ??trueconservative?? would like to paint.
I just love you anonymous posters who throw around insults and slurs. You are so gutless…
And yes I have noticed that Garth resorts to insults as well. But, from what I have seen, it is mostly in response to insults thrown his way, first.
Give it a rest jennifer, belinda gives as good as she gets. Just ask the former Mrs Domi.
You’ll note that all MacKay [supposedly?] said was ‘you already have her’ in response to some pretty immature heckling about a picture where he posed with a neighbour dog.
She’s also been known to do her own amount of heckling in the HoC.
I don’t support the incessent heckling, but the reality is that everyone in the HoC pretty much gives as good as they get. Belinda doesn’t get particularily worse treatment because she’s a woman, but she sure likes to play the poor defenseless woman card.
I’m sorry but the men in the HoC have been called a lot worse without playing the poor little men card.
You wanted equality, now you’ve got it. Enjoy!
Trueconservative,
you amuse me. I won’t even bother arguing with you anymore with the exception of one point:
You’re saying: “Things still work, just differently. Political institutions evolve and rules for projecting influence change, if you can’t change with them, you shouldn’t be doing the job.”
It is correct that politics evolve. Sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse. However, when rules change in a way that threaten democracy within the house of commons, then having a whistle blower is extremely crucial! We all know where things can lead if few individuals are gaining too much power (an extreme example: third reich). Thats why we cannot just nod to anything the government is doing like a herd of lemmings but need to be very critical.
It is NOT ok that party leaders dictate ih-house votes. It is NOT ok that conservative caucus members have to attend pre-meetings before sitting down with their respective committee. It’s NOT ok that decisions are being made without consulting the minister in charge. It is NOT ok that ministers cannot talk to the press before getting the script-ok by the PM. And it is also not OK that the press had to go as far as walking out on the PM, as he would not answer their questions. A Government/Parliament needs to be democratic and transparent which currently it is not (or at least very limited)!
Last not least: Could you please define your name? Does it stand for the above (i.e. Alliance) or simply the PC?? (Yes, I know they’re merged)
“Show me where I ‘gloated.’” — Garth
I may have read too much into it, but I took the following statement as a “boast,” if that is different from a “gloat.”
“Hey, come to think of it, I served in the cabinet of the first woman ever to be a Canadian prime minister.” –Garth.
How is that sentence either a “gloat” or a “boast”? It could not be more factual or unemotional. I think you need to lose the personal agenda – it’s distorting your vision. — Garth
It seems that Belinda gets a lot of attention…as if she is the only sitting female MP. I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that she is a white, upper-class, beautiful (read thin), woman. I truly respect the work that she is doing in Parliament and on women’s issues, but she is not the only woman there in that House….So why is Belinda the target when we discuss these issues?
Bill I will have to read the book you have recommended.
Here is a portion of my Daughter’s notes on her trip to Brazil a few years back (writes better than me).
In a conversations with Joao, Gauco, Gladis (Glauco’s mother) late that evening, over a vegetarian meal especially prepared by the Canadians, we began to get the history of the Porto Alegre and the Rio Grande do Sul political scene, and the rise of the PT (Partido Dos Trabalhadores). From the view of the woman, the worker, and of the youth I began to understand how a political movement, which began prior to the fall of the Brazilian Military Dictatorship, had grown to encompass widespread support at both the municipal and state level. It is a movement that is now even strong enough to make a solid attempt at gaining access to the Brazilian national government. But is the rest of the world ready for a left wing, workers party to be at the helm of one of the most important trading partners in South America? This is a question that concerns many supporters of the PT. Will global pressures water down PT policies on localization and most especially trade? Will the obtaining of that kind of power corrupt PT leaders? Or will the PT stand strong to its policies and provide the world with first hand account that another world is definitely possible?
Now back to my comments.
Can Globalization be stopped or do we wait for everyone to see and experience it’s devastating effects.
If our Financial institutions are allowed to merge who do they merge with?? Will Forign countries be allowed to take this over? What effects will this have on our Country and economy when decisions are made to generate income at whatever cost. Certainly not for the benefit of Canada!! It will be for the benefit of the Corporation.
Yeah sorry Garth… you lost me on that one….. You make your job sound so difficult.
You must have heard about the report on Nurses in this country? The majority of the females and some males in my family are Nurses, and although they report a lot of stress and abuse, my family who’s in that line of work, don’t complain, they’re used to it, and are conditioned into it being the norm for their carrer…… it’s not right, but they suck it up anyways….
Having to live in an apartment and get your food in the same place with the same routine as another polotician? You’re not getting any sympathy from me.
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“It’s definitely not a normal life. Being an MP completely disrupts your personal routine and that of your family. The travel is incessant, the diet generally atrocious and the pressure intense. For everything you do, there are critics and people who wish you to fail. The media is always watching and listening. Opposition politicians are lying in the weeds. There is no charity, no goodwill, no second chance and no benefit of the doubt.”
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How many families are disrupted by the man or woman having to work night shifts?
How many nurses, such as my mother, end up working 60-80 hours a week and being on call all the time?
How many new workers, such as myself are stuck with multiple Student Loans they have to pay off, because “It’ll get you a better carrer” but didn’t, and now most of us are still working under the poverty line, while those who got into a trade or dropped out of school at Grade 10 for a labour job, have cars and houses to boot?
Ask me about my diet. I can garentee you it’s much worse then your’s….. I’m used to a meal and a half a day, due to the ammount I work in a day.
No second chances or bennifit of the doubt? You’re dam right! We just got screwed by the Liberals…. we’re currently being screwed by the Conservatives, and who know what else has been screwed into us that we’re not even aware of…. you dam right we’re gonna be a bit picky as to who runs our country.
Boo hoo me? Boo hoo you? Everybody’s life sucks in one way or another.
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I will agree that the treatment of women in polotics is not only disgracefull and unfair, but as some mentioned in here…. to make a quota of women in parlament isn’t gonna be easy.
There should be some major changes in how people conduct themselves in parlament, that’s for sure. Most of the poloticians act like they’re in high school….. these people who are running our goverment better grow the hell up and act like mature adults……
Frig… this is coming from someone half your guy’s average age…. that should be telling you something.
No real offense ment, but I needed an opinion on this shot out there.
That’s all understandable and I feel sorry for you, too. But this post was about some of the perceived obstacles women face becoming national politicians, of which we need more. Do you have a comment on that? — Garth
Good point. The solution is, of course, proportional representation. In Wales, 50 per cent of the legislators in the National Assembly are women. Are they more feminist than Canadians – no? The electoral system allows it to happen. The current unfair electoral system we use in Canada does not.
Of course Mr. Dion can boost the number of women in parliament. All he needs to do is sign on the dotted line to make them candidates in the riding — Political party leaders can override the local riding association and run whomever they want in the riding. Is it democratic? Not really. But who said the average person on the ground is politically correct, sensitive to these issues etc. I mean, just look at the polling numbers regarding the death penalty — citizenry is heavily in favour, but government and the courts (if it were ever brought in) would not allow it to stay on the books for the good of all.
Ken,
I would be interested in finding out more about the “slaves in Brasil”. Do you have any links of the car company policies and further details. And what book were you refering to?
Kevin
The article on the auto industry and Brasil came from http://www.freep.com which is the detroit news so go to business auto news once there.
The book was a suggestion from Bill.
John Ralston Saul’s book ‘The Collapse of Globalism: and the reinvention of the world’
That’s all understandable and I feel sorry for you, too.
Is this a rare glimpse into the psyche of a sitting MP? Or do you mean too, as in all the other people who comment here that you feel sorry for.
But this post was about some of the perceived obstacles women face becoming national politicians, of which we need more. Do you have a comment on that?
I think that this is more perceptive of the role of money in our political process. You don’t just need to be rich to get into office, but wealthy.
Our system is built on the trading of political favors and for the most part works as a filtering mechanism to ensure that only those with the most connections and those with the most money and special interests ever have a hope of getting into office.
I think what you’re seeing in womens issues, is that there hasn’t been long enough where women have been equal for them to get into the boardrooms, crack the glass ceiling, and find the oh-so-critical poltical dirt that gets people into office.
Unfortunatly, many of the women who have broken through into the board rooms of the fortune 500, end up acting less than feminine, like Cynthia Dunn.
Want to help women into office, lets start by getting the money out of the HoC. I’d far rather see a system where taxpayers fund campaigns, not private donors.
Maybe once that happens, we’ll see more average people being able to access politics, not just the wealthy, including women.
It’s worth pointing out that Belinda got where she is mostly due to the fact shes totally loaded in a way that very few women are in Canada.
“Unfortunatly, many of the women who have broken through into the board rooms of the fortune 500, end up acting less than feminine, like Cynthia Dunn.”
I disagree that it is unfortunate that these women are “less then feminine,” because the gender stereotype of feminitity is passivity and weakness. “Tough” is a male gender stereotype that when applied to men is positive, but when women are percieved as “tough” they’re labeled bitches. In order to move past these contrived notions, we have to accept that women are more than the percieved stereotypes allow them to be.
The argument that more women in the House of Commons will create a more gentle, more toned down Parliament relies on the idea that women are more quiet and well behaved then men. When in actuality, that idea goes back to the age-old idea that women are the custodians of morality and virtue.
Is it democratic? Not really.
It isn’t even close to democratic. Witness what happened to Garth in Halton. He was elected by the local Conservative Riding Association, elected by the constituents of Halton as a Conservative, and then acclaimed again by the Conservative Riding Association.
Party headquarters, however, has the final say. In the name of expediency, maybe that’s the way it has to work. But it is a long way from democratic.
And speaking of Belinda – Martha Hall Findlay stepped aside (at the request of Paul Martin?) so that Belinda could run as the Liberal candidate in Newmarket. Although I may not agree with the Liberal ideology, I do have respect for Martha. Martha, in my opinion, is heads over Belinda.
“The argument that more women in the House of Commons will create a more gentle, more toned down Parliament relies on the idea that women are more quiet and well behaved then men. When in actuality, that idea goes back to the age-old idea that women are the custodians of morality and virtue.”
Tyra you’re killing me!
Tobi, says ” old (fashion) guys were making loud, dismissing remarks”
Think for a minute – substitute Jew, Black, Women, Muslim for the words old guys and what wuld you have.
Propogation of hate – that’s what.
So you folks that dismiss someone not in your in group with hatefilled remarks. You are the ones who are acting just like the name calling and hecling MPs as Garth mentioned in the start of this post. Let’s all look in the mirror.
Catherine said “As a woman, I find that any affirmative actions in 2006 is a male marginalization of women. It says “there, there, little woman, we will take care of you…â€
Catherine I agree I think it’s just an excuse people who fail use to justify there failure. It not my fault it the men. The strong and capable women don’t need our help but they do need us to be more respectful in the House of Commons – just as the hecklers should be more respectfull of their peer Men or Women. And those on this blog should be more respectful of and listen to each other.
Jennifer says “from pigs like Peter MacKay”
So you can call Peter a pig and at the same time condem him for for calling Belinda a pig.
Look in the mirror.
Tobias said “It is NOT ok that ministers cannot talk to the press before getting the script-ok by the PM”
That may be the idea situation if the press was fair but if you make the littlest slip in an off the cuff remark they hang you out to dry — Take Mr Day’s mistake about which way the river flows.
So if the press exibits bias — or unreasonable reporting you soon don’t talk to them.
I could argue about your other NOT statements but I will wait to see how rude people will be to me.
Answer to the “TrueConservative”
I now know for sure that this “Person” has NO brain. Only a party membership card!
Kim Campbell did not “lose that election. She was “scapegoated” by the party.
Brian Mullrony did it all by himself.
The policies of his Government where so hated by the voters that no PC government could win.
If you do not see this then you are an abysmal fool with opinions not to be considered.
Even my very old mother saw that. (In her 80s)
Sorry for that above Garth. I just get so mad at idiots.
Garth,
I have tried not to attack you as a person – I disagree with a lot of what you say but as long as you say it with respect I support your right to say it. And believe I have a right/duty to state the other side of the case.
One personal criticism I must make however is that you sometimes attack rather than answer honest questions.
But here’s what I learnt for you over the last couple of days when you answered questions.
1. Pensions are paid starting at 55 not after not immediately after failing to get re-elected as I had thought.
2. MP who don’t serve 6 years get no pension contribution at all — That’s not fair in my mind.
3. Your pensions are not up to industry standards.
4. You as an indie are not asked to serve on committees. That’s a waste of talent — your and others and waste of your MP’s salary — It explains to me how you have time for this blog and you’re web TV. A contributor always finds some way to contribute.
Now a question — can you film from the visitor’s gallery? If so you could film the most offending MPs during Question period and broadcast their antics — we could then see who is doing all the shouting in the background. A little publicity might make them think before yelling.
An interesting idea, but you’d be arresting even trying! — Garth
With the exception of a few columnists, the press is functionally WORTHLESS, regarding reporting anything of true SUBSTANCE!
They could all take lessons from al jazeera on in depth reporting. WHAT? Oh no…can’t be they are ARAB and Muslims!
Interestingly, the Druids held that men and women were totally equal. Women were even elected as kings, served as military leaders, and no one held ownership of land. They prospered long before the Egyptians. Their reach extended from the British Isles to India, and the Hindu still practice many of the lessons their Brahmans know from ancient times. They taught the Greeks, Egyptians, and Romans languages, mathematics, and the sciences.
It wasn’t until the advent of Pauline and Peterorian(as in the so-called Apostles) doctrine that women became second class.
Those interested might wish to watch the National Geographic special “Geometry of Heaven” and be amazed that, even today, there remains isolated sects which believe in equality from ancient times, that heaven is here on earth and in the now, and live their lives accordingly doing no harm to others.
“Your idea of income-splitting to keep wives at home will help to keep women in their place. Yes siree, that’s where they belong!?!?”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Income-splitting and handing out cash to parents instead of providing daycare spaces is the way to put women in the kitchen and out of the workplace and out of politics.
Garth:
I think these comments in response to your posting only strengthen your point…
Wow Garth you certainly have hit a nerve with people! I think that the way Belinda Stronach is treated is reprehensable! I have seen editorials here in my local the length of her skirt! For goodness sakes people this is almost the year 2007! Parliament is supposed to lead by example and all the MPs are supposed to work together (regardless of their party favour) to do the best they can for their constituants and country.
The nastiness and ridicule has to stop on all sides! I elect my representative in the hopes that they will represent me to the best of their ability not bash their neighbour across the room. Unfortunately not very many people watch parliament. I think if they did they would be shocked to see who is representing them and their poor behavior. I wouldn’t want someone who is cat calling and making rude comments representing me. I think that it should be an election issue for some!
true conservative? quintessencial conservative is more like it. they do hard work and it is time people like you wake up to that fact.
get bent “trueconservative”.
The only reason Trueconservative posts is to contradict everything Garth (and people that agree with Garth) has to say. We all know it. I don’t even read his posts anymore. I might catch the odd word as I scroll through, but that’s it. He/she has the right to post. I have the right to ignore. Keep going Garth. I may not always agree with you, but at least you are talking to us and taking us into account. Thanks.
MMm more male discrimination. Victoria TC