Today in Question Period I asked the prime minister two questions:
(1) Will he immediately work towards calling by-elections in Halton, Vancouver-Kingsway (Emerson) and Mississauga-Streetsville (Khan), so we three members can be accountable to the people?
Stephen Harper did not answer. Instead he had House Leader Peter van Loan stand up and say I could resign if I want. So, I said,
(2) If the prime minister calls a by-election in Halton today, I will resign my seat today, so the people of the riding are without an MP only for a few weeks before the vote. Will he do that, yes or no? And if I quit, will he ensure Wajid Khan also resigns, for a by-election for that floor-crosser?
Again, Mr. Harper sat there, silent. Again, van Loan gave an answer that was vague, non-committal and underscored the hypocrisy of a government that vaunts its “accountability” legislation.
I was absolutely prepared to resign today, to lay my seat on the line for a principle, and go to the people. I will be equally ready next week, and next month, and every day until a general election is called – which I still believe will be in about 60 days.
Will I resign without PMSH agreeing to call a by-election? No damn way. He has six long months to do it, which guarantees my voters will have zero representation in the House of Commons until after the next election. It may be exactly what the Conservatives want in a minority Parliament – one more seat in their favour – but it is not in the interests of the people who I report to.
I’d like all those good folks who have been interested in my actions to consider a few simple questions: What is PMSH afraid of? Why will he not risk calling by-elections? Why will he not be accountable? Why on earth would he not just pick a date, give it to me, and collect my resignation?
If you have answers, I am all ears.
In the meantime, here is a video interview I shot this morning with Stephane Dion, followed by the questions in the House of Commons to Mr. Harper.
To view the video, click here.
173 comments ↓
Question; if PMSH calls a by-election, but a general election is just 60 days out, isn’t it just a waste of time and money?
You’re still in a grey area. PMSH can clear that up, but still, I’m not sure that you should vote at least until this next budget is passed and we’ve decided wether or not we’re going to have a general election within the next 60 days.
If the budget passes, and his government survives confidence, and he still refuses to call a by-election, then welcome to the Liberal party with a clear conscience I say.
Until then, don’t work against the voters who put you there. Fair?
Obviously Garth, PMSH is scared to death of you! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha …. enjoy your last 60 days, ever, of being an MP. Back to selling RRSPs!!
“Direct Democracy” – I call it Elected Hypocrisy…
Garth I valued your values when your first stated them, but doing what everyone else does is not a justification of your actions.
You need to resign the Liberals and be an indie until there is an election – by or not
Mr. Turner, you should resign based on your personal choice regarding your personal situation, not dependant on what others say or do about their differing circumstances.
Don’t rely on others to decide for you what is right thing to do.
Garth – you’re the one who has spent the entire year preaching on this topic.
If you’re half the man you think you are, you’ll take the high road and resign.
but I’m not holding my breath.
Garth
I posted this in the other blog entry but I feel it would be more fitting to be in here.
I said:
“I think what may be the best solution is to sit as an independent until the next election, and then run as a Liberal. That way, you can still have a mandate from the people and they can choose for themselves whether they want you to be a Liberal MP or not. I think that decision would be the best for democracy, especially since the town hall meetings participants decided they wanted an indy MP. What are you thoughts on this?”
Regardless of political affiliation or party politics, please do what is right.
I have an answer. Stop hiding behind other people, PMSH, etc.
RESIGN.
Marek
I have to admit that I was a little shocked to hear that you’d joined the Liberals, but not really all that surprised. It takes courage and commitment to do what you’ve done over the last year, and yesterday’s move is no different. I applaud your standing up for the people in your community! I truly hope that M. Dion is as genuine as he seems, most especially once he becomes Prime Minister. If he is who I think he is, he’s been a long time coming in Canadian Federal politics, and will be most welcome. Good luck Garth! Oh, and if M. Dion ends up liking you’re style tell him to get a hold of me if he needs someone like-minded standing up in the next election for the people of Peterborough. People first, party second…the way it should be.
Vive mes Canada!
Thanks for the update Garth, I have been looking forward to it all day.
Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide
Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?
By Timothy Ball
Monday, February 5, 2007
Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn’t exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was the first Canadian Ph.D. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and was a climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why.
What would happen if tomorrow we were told that, after all, the Earth is flat? It would probably be the most important piece of news in the media and would generate a lot of debate. So why is it that when scientists who have studied the Global Warming phenomenon for years say that humans are not the cause nobody listens? Why does no one acknowledge that the Emperor has no clothes on?
Believe it or not, Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This in fact is the greatest deception in the history of science. We are wasting time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification. For example, Environment Canada brags about spending $3.7 billion in the last five years dealing with climate change almost all on propaganda trying to defend an indefensible scientific position while at the same time closing weather stations and failing to meet legislated pollution targets.
No sensible person seeks conflict, especially with governments, but if we don’t pursue the truth, we are lost as individuals and as a society. That is why I insist on saying that there is no evidence that we are, or could ever cause global climate change. And, recently, Yuri A. Izrael, Vice President of the United Nations sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed this statement. So how has the world come to believe that something is wrong?
Maybe for the same reason we believed, 30 years ago, that global cooling was the biggest threat: a matter of faith. “It is a cold fact: the Global Cooling presents humankind with the most important social, political, and adaptive challenge we have had to deal with for ten thousand years. Your stake in the decisions we make concerning it is of ultimate importance; the survival of ourselves, our children, our species,” wrote Lowell Ponte in 1976.
I was as opposed to the threats of impending doom global cooling engendered as I am to the threats made about Global Warming. Let me stress I am not denying the phenomenon has occurred. The world has warmed since 1680, the nadir of a cool period called the Little Ice Age (LIA) that has generally continued to the present. These climate changes are well within natural variability and explained quite easily by changes in the sun. But there is nothing unusual going on.
Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970’s global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990’s temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I’ll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling.
No doubt passive acceptance yields less stress, fewer personal attacks and makes career progress easier. What I have experienced in my personal life during the last years makes me understand why most people choose not to speak out; job security and fear of reprisals. Even in University, where free speech and challenge to prevailing wisdoms are supposedly encouraged, academics remain silent.
I once received a three page letter that my lawyer defined as libellous, from an academic colleague, saying I had no right to say what I was saying, especially in public lectures. Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint.
In another instance, I was accused by Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki of being paid by oil companies. That is a lie. Apparently he thinks if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?
Personal attacks are difficult and shouldn’t occur in a debate in a civilized society. I can only consider them from what they imply. They usually indicate a person or group is losing the debate. In this case, they also indicate how political the entire Global Warming debate has become. Both underline the lack of or even contradictory nature of the evidence.
I am not alone in this journey against the prevalent myth. Several well-known names have also raised their voices. Michael Crichton, the scientist, writer and filmmaker is one of them. In his latest book, “State of Fear” he takes time to explain, often in surprising detail, the flawed science behind Global Warming and other imagined environmental crises.
Another cry in the wildenerness is Richard Lindzen’s. He is an atmospheric physicist and a professor of meteorology at MIT, renowned for his research in dynamic meteorology – especially atmospheric waves. He is also a member of the National Academy of Sciences and has held positions at the University of Chicago, Harvard University and MIT. Linzen frequently speaks out against the notion that significant Global Warming is caused by humans. Yet nobody seems to listen.
I think it may be because most people don’t understand the scientific method which Thomas Kuhn so skilfully and briefly set out in his book “The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.” A scientist makes certain assumptions and then produces a theory which is only as valid as the assumptions. The theory of Global Warming assumes that CO2 is an atmospheric greenhouse gas and as it increases temperatures rise. It was then theorized that since humans were producing more CO2 than before, the temperature would inevitably rise. The theory was accepted before testing had started, and effectively became a law.
As Lindzen said many years ago: “the consensus was reached before the research had even begun.” Now, any scientist who dares to question the prevailing wisdom is marginalized and called a sceptic, when in fact they are simply being good scientists. This has reached frightening levels with these scientists now being called climate change denier with all the holocaust connotations of that word. The normal scientific method is effectively being thwarted.
Meanwhile, politicians are being listened to, even though most of them have no knowledge or understanding of science, especially the science of climate and climate change. Hence, they are in no position to question a policy on climate change when it threatens the entire planet. Moreover, using fear and creating hysteria makes it very difficult to make calm rational decisions about issues needing attention.
Until you have challenged the prevailing wisdom you have no idea how nasty people can be. Until you have re-examined any issue in an attempt to find out all the information, you cannot know how much misinformation exists in the supposed age of information.
I was greatly influenced several years ago by Aaron Wildavsky’s book “Yes, but is it true?” The author taught political science at a New York University and realized how science was being influenced by and apparently misused by politics. He gave his graduate students an assignment to pursue the science behind a policy generated by a highly publicised environmental concern. To his and their surprise they found there was little scientific evidence, consensus and justification for the policy. You only realize the extent to which Wildavsky’s findings occur when you ask the question he posed. Wildavsky’s students did it in the safety of academia and with the excuse that it was an assignment. I have learned it is a difficult question to ask in the real world, however I firmly believe it is the most important question to ask if we are to advance in the right direction.
Dr. Tim Ball, Chairman of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project (www.nrsp.com), is a Victoria-based environmental consultant and former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. He can be reached at letters@canadafreepress.com
You did the right thing. You offered your head if Harper would immediately act to ensure voters have a representative. The fact that he choses not to call by-elections immediately is wrong. I think you are right. He will engineer the fall of his government, I think with the budget. He will try to capitalize on giving a ton of cash to Quebec under the fiscal imbalance guise.
As the Chair of the small but mighty Halton Independent Advisory Council for the reelection of Garth Turner I must admit I was saddened when I learned of the new regarding Garth and the Liberals.
We were all looking forward to the battle for Halton in the upcoming election and while we knew the challenge running an Independent campaign presented we are a confident lot.
Am I in any way challenged with my support of Garth…No Way.
Liberal, Green, Blue whatever the colour of the sign the reasons for Garth needing to win remains. He is steadfast in his belief that Canadian politics needs to change. That to alter the power of party politics it is necessary to be on the inside. And sorry to you Greens but being on the inside of a party of one realy is no different than being Independent.
Dion knows what he is getting and is willing to work with Garth. Garth does not hide what his desires for fiscal change are. He communicates these openly and many of you people deride him for providing a forum to make his and your views known.
Party Politics will continue for the foreseeable future. But, as long as Garth is in Ottawa as my MP I will not have the leaders easily slide things by me. And that is worth all my support!
Scott Nicholl
Maybe you should go on a hunger stike, Mr. Turner? That would make good TV for the next Garth Show… Who cares?
If nothing else, this can be informative for people: Canada’s Constitution and various other relevant laws governing elections declare that a byelection cannot be called until after the Speaker of the House declares a seat vacant.
Garth, give it up. You wanna show principle. Resign your seat. In fact, ask Harper if he will call a by-election if only you resign.My guess is he will.
Your pathetic attempt to bring Khan and Emerson into this is a joke.Some facts Garth.
1. Harper voted against a floor-crossing bill.
2. Emerson and Khan never called for floor crossers to run in by-elections.
3. Its you who has been quite vocal about joining a party you were not elected to requiring a by-election
4. Its you who now realize your words are coming back to haunt you, and are looking for an out.
So heres my challenge Garth. If you really have the principles you brag about, stand in the house and say you will resign if Harper agrees to a by-election. Just you, not Emerson, not Khan, just you.
Being a man of such integrity i am sure you will agree to this, as its what you have blogged about for over a year.
What a surprise that Harper didn’t bother giving you the time of day.
Whatever happened to your daily claims that you could accomplish so much more as an independent than as a member of a caucus?
Peter van Mortgage presents the cheerful cherub face of one of his other CONServative hacks, Jason Kenney, He didn’t want to deal with the expense account abuse problem … and he certainly won’t want to deal with The Hon. Garth Turner crossing the floor. Although he’s not battle wounded, he is mediocre and gutless … and has NO WISH TO DEAL WITH THE ACCOUNTABILITY ACT EITHER!
Get this: All the world leaders are weighing in on climate change … while Harper’s Bizarre claims ‘it is an emerging science.’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i60GMRQtvbo
I think that was totally fair and no one could ask anything more of you.
If you had any guts you would resign, regardless of what PM Harper does.
The issue was never the Prime Minister’s principle; the issue was your own. Quit now, or go back to continue living in amateur hour.
Prime MInister Harper has stated openly, and has never never budged on this or changed his mind, that he does NOT want to prohibit floor crossing. In fact, he has stated that it is part of our democratic system and that if floor crossing was prohibited it would give too much power to the party leaders.
Some disagree with him, as you did or do whatever. Some agree with him.
At this point floor crossing is part of our democratic system. Live with it.
Also, appointing people who are not elected to cabinet (ala Fortier) is also part of our democratic system. Your new leader Dion was a professor, had never run for any election whatsoever,when Chretien appointed him as a Cabinet MInister. He was not even appointed to the senate so neither house could hold him accountable. Which mionistry? Ahhh – the very one where AdAScam flurished – the Unity Ministry.
So be careful who and what you criticize I would say.
Whether Emerson or Khan resigns is irrelevant. YOU need to decide for yourself what your constituents want, and that should be painfully apparent by reading your own blog.
Trying to include others in your own situation is a form of blackmail, and looks quite pathetic.
Okay Garth here it goes (think of this as your test for Question Period if your Liberals happen to win the next election):
Will a)
*you* resign your seat if PM Harper promises to call a by-election within a week for your riding for by the end of March-first week of April?
and b)
welcome the Liberal Party nominiation process in which others (like the incumbant you unseated last year) can run against you?
all regardless of what happens to the members for Vancouver-Kingsway and Missisauga-Streetsville, as well as Senator Fortier (remember, two wrongs don’t make a right and as such, you keeping your seat until the government forces these members to run in a by-election as well is no matter of principle!).
Canada awaits your answers to these two questions…
I find it strange so many people coming to this blog can write, but they can’t read. I said unequivocably that I would trade my resgnation for a by-election date. So there is your answer. As for whatever the Lib process is, that’s fine with me (and the former incumbant is now a regional politician). — Garth
Why are you waiting for Harper, Emerson, and Khan? Who are you trying to kid?
Garth, For the most part I am not concerned with the other members of the House that crossed the floor although I don’t like it. They didn’t condemn the practice unlike yourself which I have to admit was done forcefully and with a sense of logical purpose. I also don’t believe that the PM can force the other members to resign if they don’t want too. Legally and ethically according to our system of Parliament they haven’t done anything wrong as you legally haven’t done anything wrong. I remind you that Mr.Harper voted against a motion to ban floor crossing. I suggest that you try your question again leaving out the reference to the other members and see what the answer would be. This reminds me of the age old saying that every parent tells their child at some point, “you made your bed, now you can lay in it”. I do feel for you though Mr. Turner and some of the personal attack on this blog have been uncalled. Lets keep the comments civilized and in a grown up manner.
More bluff and bluster from the master of the flip-flop himself. As a tactical move it’s not too bright comparing your situation with that of other floor crossers in the mind of the Canadian public.
By the way, the PM can’t call a by-election in a riding with a sitting member so your question #2 was ill-posed and made you look foolish.
p.s. where is the Liberal logo on your website?
ummmm…can the PM do that? Just arbitrarily say “You crossed the floor…you must resign your seat and I can announce a by-election?”
One, I think the only person who can resign their seat is the person who holds it- namely YOU. To hoist this responsibility on the PM is absurd. Especially since Harper has stated he has no problem with floor crossings-other than it sucks when you lose an MP.
YOU are the one going against your word. If an election is coming so soon, why switch now? Why not when an election is called?
Mr Turner, I would just like to say that you are an incredible source of inspiration for me. THe fact that there are people like yourself who can succeed in politics while maiintaining their integrity is a testament to the kind of person that you are.
Keep doing what you’re doing, because I’m sure that the majority of people in Halton applaud you for having such strong faith in your convictions and for dedicating yourself first and foremost to serving them. You will truly be an asset to the Liberals, and I look forward to seeing you re-elected in a landslide soon!
Like I’ve said, you could try living up to your own standards, instead of living down to the standards of others.
Garth,
A few explanations to your constituents is in order, (digital democracy in action), c’mon now Garth let’s hear your rationale of the following.
“Mr. Turner has passionately defended the Tories GST cut, their elimination of the national daycare strategy in favour of child care payments directly to families, boosting the basic personal tax exemption to $10,000 a year, cuts to corporate tax rates, elimination of the corporate surtax and the rearming of our military, of which he said “hallelujah!” On all of these issues, he stands four-square against the Liberals. Crass, political self-interest is the only reason Mr. Turner signed up to join the Liberals — no matter what the official line.
Garth, If you want my support you will not dodge these issues but will give a full and reasonable explanation, and I would expect that you will vote accordingly on these issues if and when they come to votes in the ‘house’.
I too am “all ears”, waiting to hear from you,
Regards,
Daisy
It’s amazing that you continue to try and spin this as Mr. Harper’s fault for not calling by-elections. Do us all a favor and resign like you should and get out of politics. As one of your constituents, I’m embarassed to say that you are my M.P.
You respectfully brought this crisis upon yourself when you joined Dion’s Liberals. But you are right – there should be by-elections planned for the end of the spring legislative session if no general election.
I wish you well – as in more media attention!! Just keep getting more attention than 290+ of those 300 and something MPs!!!
Hi Garth…No that’s what I call guts. Good for you! Hold them accountable. They can’t apply a standard to you that they would never accept themselves. The ball is in their court…but not for much longer!
Turner,
You are man without honour. PMSH may or may not be an honourable man, but you have erased all doubt.
I hope your actions don’t further reduce faith in the political process in this country — but I doubt it.
Garth, you just don’t get it.
Of course PMSH won’t force by-elections – he is NOT against floor crossing. Even after Belinda crossed and saved the Liberals in 2005, Harper still did not favour any laws requiring by-elections.
On the other hand, YOU have stated that an MP must resign when they switch parties. So don’t try to compare the 2. Instead of making excuses and trying to pussy-foot around your previous comments, you should have just stood your ground and taken your lumps. Instead you are an embarrassment to Halton. I voted for you last year because I respected YOU. However, you have lost all of my respect, and I will not be voting for you in the next election.
George Orwell was right. I realise that language in this government is used to deceive and manipulate every day in Question Period. It has succeded, of course, in leading Conservative MPs to unquestioningly obey their leader and mindlessly accept all propaganda as reality and enjoy the bully boys attack style. There are no answers in Q P, the front bench just spews insults – some ‘brain trust’ THEY make!
A Decima poll says 38% of Canadians saw the attack ads on the Liberals. 59% of these said they were unfair and 66% said these ads were not relevant to how they would vote in the next election. In other words, supporters of the government liked them and the rest of us thought they were dumb.
The Conservative caucus is in a bubble -nothing of democratic value gets in, nothing valuable comes out. Except MP Turner: you escaped with the ‘maverick’ in you still intact. I believe most Canadians believe in an open society. Thank you; we visit your blog every day.
Garth,
You offered your voice and your digital democracy to Canada saying you would work to change Parliament.
You offered to consult your constituents and be their voice.
In your announcement yesterday, you avoided all your previously stated principles.
Be a man of your principles, and PUT pressure on the Conservatives NOW by resigning your seat to run in an immediate by-election.
You could spend the campaign saying your principles are intact and the voters of Halton could decide.
I am as an advocate of the concept of digital democracy and a more functional Parliament very disappointed in your actions this week.
NNL
First let me say that joining the Libs was absolutely brilliant. Not even 24 hrs had passed since you voted for the Libs do nothing plan extending Kyoto. As far as political moves goes to take the attention off of voting for an unworkable plan it was pure genius. You`re off the hook on the Kyoto vote.
On the floor crossing, yes you did cross the floor. It matters not whether you took the high road or low, you were elected as a Conservative and now you`re a Liberal, you`ve crossed the floor.
I too watched QP. The Tories said if you want a bi-election you simply need resign your seat and they will accommodate you. Resign and start campaigning. What`s the problem?
When you objected to previous floor crossings you did not stipulate any conditions yet you want them in your case.
What makes you so special that you refuse their offer for a bi-election unless the government meets your preconditions?
Mr Turner,
I would be very thankful for some answers, however short, to a few questions:
1. Look, I appreciate there are some differences between your situation and that of Mr. Emerson or Mr. Khan (or Mr. Brison or Ms. Stronach). But are these differences meaningful?
2. Are you willing to admit now that the question of whether to resign and run in a by-election does not have as easy an answer as you used to make out? After all, it is up to the PM to call a by-election, and in any case these things take time.
3. Also, I’m curious how drifting from allegiance to allegiance somehow makes you more principled than those who switched parties more quickly?
4. Is it not problematic for you that at your town hall when you became an independent not one of your constituents thought joinging the Liberals was the right choice?
I think you need to answer questions like these forthrightly if you want to convince Canadians you’re as principled as you say you are.
Last time I checked, how many was it again, oh right, ZERO people in your town hall meeting voted that it was in their “best interests” for you to join the liberal party.
I guess you really represent your consituents well!!
Garth, you are nothing but a big chicken, and now everyone knows.
As someone who voted for you because of your affiliation with the Conservatives, I’d like to know how you can justify crossing the floor to join the Liberals? I voted for a Conservative member in Parlaiment, not a Liberal! The problem with today’s politicians is that they give up too easily and go where they believe the grass is greener. let me tell you Garth, if a by-election were called, you would definately not get my vote! All of this criss-crossing on the floor of the Colmmons lately is making a mockery of the democratic voting system. No wonder less and less people are showing up at the polls…what’s the point!
Garth:
I suggest that you may be harbouring an inflated idea of your value as an unelected Liberal backbencher. Your Commons vote will occasionally be valuable, no doubt more to your new party than to your increasingly-confused Halton constituents. Let’s face it: the only federal MPs who have much real power, influence and responsibility are those who form the federal Cabinet. Sorry!
Don’t put this on Harper. If you really are interested in staying true to the people of Halton, you would just RESIGN. Whether or not he calls an election is beside the point. Why? Well, if we have no MP that really is too bad. Truly. I want to be represented in Parliament. HOWEVER, if we have an MP that changes party affiliation – that is actively ignoring the will of the people by serving as a Liberal when Halton elected a Conservative, well, that is another – and more serious. So say I, a member of your riding. And, so say my neighbors – who agree. You should just quit.
Mr Turner, your indignation and attempted justifications and demands from the Prime Minister of Canada reminds me of a fish wiggling on a hook.
You have been caught. Do the honourable thing and resign, you are embarrassing yourself.
Mr Turner. You are trying in vain to square a circle and it can’t be done because most of us can see through it.
When others crossed the floor you categorically stated that THEY should resign their seat before doing so. And now that you have crossed the floor in a roundabout way you want to put conditions on resigning your seat. It doesn’t work that way. Either be the man of principle you claimed to be or remain a Liberal. You apparently are a perfect fit in the party known as “HypoGrits”.
I also hope that you release private caucus information and discussions of your “new” party like you did with your old one. That at least would allow me to keep a modicum of respect for you but what respect I had left for you has evaporated in fell swoop.
At least if you’d joined the Greens you’d be accomplishing something. Joining the Liberals just paints you as a political opportunist and being expedient. It certainly removes your titles of Maverick and Independent.
Too bad. I thought you were different.
“What is PMSH afraid of? Why will he not risk calling by-elections? Why will he not be accountable? Why on earth would he not just pick a date, give it to me, and collect my resignation?”-Garth
Obviously because calling a by-election in Halton but not in Mississauga and Vancouver will make him look bad. If he calls by-elections in all three ridings, the by-elections will produce 3 Liberal MPs. He’s in a tight spot on this one and you know it. So does everyone else.
Mr Turner,
You have repeatedly stated that you are your own person accountable to only yourself and your constituents. I have admired the “maverick” label that was attached to you and over the years have listened to you consistently cut the Liberals down and held them accountable for the “right to govern” attitude. While it is obvious that you and PMSH are on a different paths, I believe that you are now among the biggest hypocrites in recent memory. The fact that you will only resign if others do is not showing leadership, simply proving that you are not a “maverick” but more like a sheep, only resigning if someone else does first. A truly principled person would resign, and challenge PMSH to to immediately call an election for that seat without the condition that someone else has to resign too. That would show true commitment. Apparently you don’t have the “stones” to do that. If you were to resign, or remain as an independent, rather than run to the party you have spent the majority of your professional career criticizing, you would have maintained some measure of respect. Now, you have joined the mass of politicians that are only in it for themselves, and only serve their own interests.It’s no wonder there is so much apathy among the electorate…
Garth,
Who pays for MP tv?
I bought the equipment out of my own pocket. The House of Commons provides a data link. My MP budget (same as all MPs) pays for the shooter. There is zero additional cost to the taxpayer. — Garth
Mr. Turner,
I ask that you explain your current views and rationalize them if different from those you previously held, in the following statement:
“Mr. Turner has passionately defended the Tories GST cut, their elimination of the national daycare strategy in favour of child care payments directly to families, boosting the basic personal tax exemption to $10,000 a year, cuts to corporate tax rates, elimination of the corporate surtax and the rearming of our military, of which he said “hallelujah!” On all of these issues, he stands four-square against the Liberals. Crass, political self-interest is the only reason Mr. Turner signed up to join the Liberals — no matter what the official line.”
If you expect my support you will explain and furthermore I would expect your votes in the house on these matters to be in accordance with your views. I will await your response as I too “am all ears”.
Regards,
Laurie
The “statement” you quote is from a National Post diatribe today written by a columnist who did not have the nerve to call me. Nonetheless, I am changing none of my views – just as I did not change them when I became a Conservative MP. There were many issues I championed while in the CPC caucus that were not party policy. So, what should change? — Garth
It’s pretty obvious that PMSH won’t call a by-election in Halton if you stepped down. Now for the interesting stuff. Will you tell us why Dion agreed to you joining the Liberals? The Libs would have won Halton in the next election with you running as an independent, so what does Dion have to gain except another headache or a pain as you called yourself?
Hi Garth.WE now know who the real HYPOCRITE is,don’t we.Harper won’t open his mouth when it counts.We can only guess at why he’s afraid of calling three bi-elections.Maybe defeat and embarassment.Way to stick it to him and his 125 cronies.
Garth: As a constituent of Surrey North, I was one of thousands of people who were left without representation when Chuck Cadman died during Martin’s reign of error, so I am extremely understanding and sympathetic to your position regarding why you don’t resign and hold your breath waiting for Stevie to call a by-election.
I’m disappointed that you felt you couldn’t do better as an independent, but I’m politically astute enough to know that you didn’t make this move on a whim. The reasons you gave are all excellent reasons. I think reactionaries should file this one under “the least of several evils.”
Now. What we need in this country is real political reform. We need to break the whip system and the party line. Do you see yourself being able to work in that direction?
your a ass mr turner you are the mp how said a mp who croses the floor should resing. mr harper said to the public he did not have a problem with floor crossing only you said that so do the right thing resing your costituans dont have representation now with a person who speacks out both sides of his mouth .you are a nothing . you dont have the guts to do what you said you would do . you would not win the race if you were the only one running. and if you realy had any knowlege of the political system in canada the prime minister can not call a election if there is no vacancy and a prime minister can not force anyone to resine there seat to call a election you are just postering and your making this voter sick of your two faced remarks . what are you afraid of mr turner resing your seat and you can be sure there would be a election in no time to fill your seat with a conservative like the voter voted for not a liberal thief what you are becoming ,did you not like the survay you did with your own constituants that said stay a independent guess not enough frony page news there. with your big mouth it wont be long before your tossed out of the liberal anyway
Good point,
I would urge you to amend the Elections Act, that governs by-election timing to remove that discretion from the PM. Alternatively, you should draft a Floor-Crossing Bill that addresses this problem when a member of the governing party crosses to an opposite party; it is only natural (admittedly, unfair, unjust, unprincipled..BUT natural) that in such a case the governing party will choose an election date that most suits their purposes…in your case, not for another six months [as we will probably have a general election before then]. In other words, Harper would use that opportunity to just get rid of you.
I disagree with you on one point, where you hinge your willingness to go in a by-election with the choices of Fortier, Emerson inter alia. You should do the principled thing, no matter what the others do. Be an example for the rest.
That said, if you follow one of the two aforementioned avenues, I believe you will be in line with your enunciated principles.
I wish you the best.
not only are you all ears like you said you all mouth and no action
Well that was self-serving drivel if I’ve ever seen it.
You want to do the right thing, Garth? Lead by example! Prove to your consituents that you haven’t been lying to them this entire time. Show them that your principles cannot be compromised.
You know darn well that the PM can’t call a by-election until there is an actual vacancy. So this whole “I was GONNA step down but since the PM wouldn’t force anyone to do the same I guess I’m not gonna.”. What bullocks.
Sorry Mr. Turner. In the past, although I did not always agree with you, I admired your spirit and straightforward attitude. Now, you seem to be just another flakey politician looking out for himself. I don’t mean to be rude, bvut it seems to me that you’ve completely gone back on your word. I don’t like floor crossers of any stripe. I thought you agreed.
Fair question, although I am quite fine Garth if you wait until the next election. It is close enough for most. I don’t think being a Liberal for 60 days will be too much to bear for the Tory supporters in your riding.
At the end of the day, the people of Halton will get to make the final decision. I expect the race to be very close as this is neither a safe Liberal or Conservative riding, but I think based on the current polls and the fact Harper pretty much reaches his ceiling last election, the Liberals will narrowly re-take Halton. Mike Chong is probably the only Conservative in the Halton RM who is reasonably safe when one considers the margin he won by last time around.
You should resign! You didn’t say anything about running in a byelection if the others do as well. Suddenly you have added this magical condition in order for you to resign. I don’t buy it. The press doesn’t buy it. Even the Liberals (who probably wrote your statement to the press) don’t buy it. You are truly the worst kind of hypocrite and your constituents know it!
Would any PM call a by-election without giving all parties the chance to field a properly elected candidate in that riding? No, because it would be unfair to the people to not have clear choices. What you are asking for is a clear and unfair advantage to yourself. If you want to allow your constituents to choose, then a delay of 6 months to be able to make sure they can do that in a democratic and fair method is not too long. Stand up, resign and demand that the constituents get the proper time for the parties to field qualified candidates (you need to get acclaimed as the Liberal candidate….or are you going to bypass that part of your constituents democratic process?).
Secondly, your continued calls to have the two previous MP’s who have crossed the floor to hold by elections would hold them to a higher standard then yourself. Once again, completely favouring you, you have demanded that these MP’s resign over an issue that you have concerns about. The ethic commissioner has cleared the crossings, but your previous comments on the matter have got you in between a rock and a hard place. You have consistantly voiced your opinion that those crossing the floor should go through a by-election (and yes you did cross, you went from place A to Place B in between elections….I don’t care how long your stop over in C was), those other members didn’t. So now, to protect your interests you are demanding that they take the same steps that you are being asked to take. Are you now claiming that all MP’s should stand by your word, and when you go back on your word, they must take the punishment as well? Lead by example….don’t try to bully others.
As for your other little questions: What is the PM afraid of? First, being held ransom by the Terrel Owens of the House of Commons. You are a MP. You abide by the rules of Parliament. The PM calls a by election using the rules of Parliament, not YOURS!! Play by the rules Garth, or do no play at all. The PM will not be held accountable for the actions of a rogue MP who is pulling a childish tantrum because he got caught by his own comments. You are the only one accountable to your words, not the PM. You are accountable, so why haven’t you resigned? Why are you laying the accountability blame on the PM when you won’t take the first step? If you want to show accountability, it shouldn’t matter what the PM does after your resignation….that is something you can raise in the by-election. Remember the saying…those in glass houses should not throw stones.
Finally, who are you to demand the PM pick a date and then have you resign? How the hell can a PM call a by-election while there is a sitting MP? You must resign first, and then allow the rules of Parliament to take effect. If the PM responds too slowly for your new parties liking, then it is up to Mr. Dion to state your case in the House. Whether the PM calls a quick or slow election (we are only in the 2nd year of a 5 year mandate), or you are worried about a perceived upcoming election, hold your new boss to task and make sure they don’t vote for that new election so quickly!! Then your constituents will have 4.5 out of 5 years in the current mandate of someone representing them in the House.
Be a man…..be accountable for your words…..be honorable…..Resign and accept the fate that befalls you.
You are a hypocrite, Garth. Nothing changes that. Now you are saying you will resign if PMSH makes sure somebody else resigns, too. You are two faced, lying turncoat, you will make a perfect liberal.
PMSH is afraid that he would lose all these by-elections, making the position of his minority government even more precarious. And he probably would lose them (and deservedly so!) Saw your reception by the Liberal caucus today and Question Period. Well done and good luck!!
Actually Garth,
I watched you today on TV and the Conservative House Leader said: Resign your seat and we will call a by-election.
So if you resign, they will call an immediate by-eelction
You are playing politics. You will only resign if Harper will call a by-election in the other ridings at the same time.
You spin spin spin, but you have lost all credibility.
I have never watched a full length of Question Period but I was hoping to see you get up and what you might say and then how you might spin spin spin on your blog here.
Pathetic Garth. You are going to lose this battle. The Liberals think you will be a liability. The Conservatives already know this. The media is sik of you. Have you read any of the scathing articles today?
Resign your seat and Harper will call a by-election – thats what I heard today.
Garth you are really reaching.
hahahahahah
You are pathetic Garth. Resign your seat. If Harper doesnt call a byelection he will wear it.
Resign. Stop complaining about other floor crossers and do what you said you would do.
Don’t resign Garth. I’m not a constituent but we need you in the Liberal caucus NOW. I am one who lost a great deal on Halloween and need as many politicians to understand what’s at stake as possible. You are one of the few AND you did a great job so far on the Trust issue. Keep up the good work.
During the Emerson debacle you inspired me to write many letters to my MP and PM about David Emerson and floor-crossing in general. I am a big supporter of your popular approach to politics and a frequent reader of your blog. But your refusal to resign and run in a by-election ASAP is immensely disappointing and hypocritical. Politics as usual.
Seems like you’re going to be the subject of new attacks.
Perhaps you could check this out – Mr.
Wallace, Burlington, stated in the House today the usual….Conservatives getting things done blah, blah, blah…but I think he was misleading the House – the GO Transit project has been in the works for quite some time and long before the Conservatives were elected – you could possibly check this out, but I do think I’m right.
If so, he lied to the House.
Oh, and two questions… What are you afraid of? Why are you afraid to do the right thing if Harper has been so wrong all these months?
You’re going down, big time. You’re the most pathetic excuse for a politician, ever. Resign your fucking seat and get lost. Despite the cocaine drug busts, Halton can’t be THAT bad to deserve such a shitty MP.
S**t or get off the pot. If you’re so willing to do it then do it and stop demanding that others do it. You should only be concerned about your own reputation and not that of other MP’s. Be the man of conviction you have always said you are.
You know Harper won’t call bi-elections for all three ridings and Khan and Emerson will not resign. In my opinion you are the one who looks most foolish here by continually stating that you’ll do it only if the other two do.
Thanks for trying Garth, and also welcome to the team. Great to have you. Now go and try to make sure that income splitting is in the next red book.
Well you know, if the people ruled, the middle class would rise up and take control.
I want a party committed to improving the life of the middle class. essentially, I work myself to the bone to provide a plethora of social programs for low income earners as well as more than my fair share of taxes to pay for continual raises for our wealthy politicians.
Give me a party that is for the people!!!
I don’t follow your logic Garth. It was you, and not the Prime Minister, who argued that floor crossers need to resign and face a by-election. Stating that you will only abide by your previously pronounced principles if the Prime Minister adopts them displays a pretty flexible ethic of responsibility on your part.
Harper has been consistent since day one on this issue. You have not, all your bluster to the contrary. If you want to resign, go right ahead, but I don’t see why the Prime Minister should be obliged to cater to your narcissistic tendencies by offering you any more than your 15 minutes of fame.
How can the honourable Prime Minister call a by-election in Halton before the honourable member from Halton resigns first?
To call an election BEFORE you resign would be absolutely dictatorial on his part.
Perhaps the Right Honourable Prime Minister is only like a fair checker player. When it is your turn to move, he won’t.
Let the seat become vacant first, and then call a by-election.
If you are all ears…listen up:
“Will I resign without PMSH agreeing to call a by-election?” – Under the rules of Parliament, the PM must call a by-election within 6 months. Those are the rules, so the answer to your question is that yes, under the rules, if you resigned today then within 6 months the PM will call a by-election.
Wait….you don’t like the rules? Stephen Harper did not make up the rules, but you are trying to do so on the fly to protect your own interests. The rules of Parliament, the laws of Canada do not change whenever you are trapped between a rock and a hard place. You must resign. The PM must call a by-election within a set time. Deal with it!!
Oh…you are concerned a general election will be called within 60 days so your constituents will be without reperesentation for 60 days? Then you can call upon your new party leader, Mr. Dion, to be accountable to your constituents and make sure the current government does not fall before the by-election is called. Mr. Dion has the votes to make sure the current mandate continues for as long as he wishes, so why not hold him to that task? For the good of your constituents, it is the least you can do!!
But wait….it’s all about the Constituents to have a quick by-election. Actually it isn’t, because the last time I checked, you were not acclaimed as the Liberal candidate for that riding. So, unless you are bypassing that democratic process, you would want to go through a candidate election. This would give time for all parties and independents to come forward so the constituents could vote for the best candidate possible. Your demands for a snap by-election favour your interests and yours alone. Your demand is not helping the democratic process of you constituents, rather it hindering it. You should be standing up demanding the constituents get the required time to participate in the democratic process, not rush it by them in the blink of an eye.
What is the PM afraid of? Nothing. But why should you, the Terrell Owens of Canadian Politics, be allowed to hold the rules of Parliament, the democratic process and the PM hostage for what clearly are your own interests.
Risk calling by-elections? There is only one person here who needs to be accountable for their words on crossing the floor, and that is YOU. So there is only one by-election to call. You have some nerve to demand that MP’s be held responsible for your actions. You have raised your voice against these tactics, and now you are doing the exact same thing (yes, I know, you were kicked out….indie….blah blah….you were voted in a Conservative, you are sitting as a Liberal within the same mandate….you crossed the floor….I don’t care how many stops you took on the way!!). You shoud lead by example and resign, accepting whatever fate that befalls you, instead you are trying to paint yourself out of a corner by holding every one else accountable, except yourself. If you truly held yourself accountable, you would continue to sit as an independant or resign and announce your intention to run as a Liberal.
Why is the PM not accountable for your actions? Wow…you’ve taken the current Canadian philosophy of not taking personal responsibilty for your actions to a new level. It is your words that you are being held accountable for, not the PM’s. If this is the case, then will you hold Mr. Dion responsible for supporting the Kyoto accord although your published material says “We have made the wise choice not to pursue the path of the Kyoto Agreement…”? Your words are yours…hold yourself accountable.
Finally, as long as you do not resign, the PM can not call a by-election. So your request that you be informed prior to resigning flies in the face of Parliamentary procedure and the rules of a fair by election. By giving you the date first, you get a head start on your opponents. This request only shows your lack of respect for the democratic process, the parlimentary rules of Canada and your constituents rights.
Garth….you have become the Terrell Owens of Canadian Politics by your grandstanding and antics. Resign now and you might salvage what little credibility you have remaining!!
I don’t like the way this country has been run under any party! It’s full of liars – plain and simple. A lot of the people commenting here don’t have the common sense to understand that they are being lied to everyday. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Our society is full of spineless whining followers who want the government to continue to lie to them – it makes them feel better. Continue to tell it the way you see it – I may not agree with everything you say (and I don’t vote Liberal), but I appreciate your honesty. Keep up the good work!
WHO CARES WHAT YOU ASK OR INTEND TO DO!!!!!?????? YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED YOUR DEFINITION OF “TEAM PLAY” BY YOUR DISRESPECTFUL BEHAVIOUR IN THE CONSERVATIVE CAUCUS.
1) What is PMSH afraid of? Not You…
2) Why will he not risk calling by-elections? Because there is no vacant seat in Halton!
3)Why will he not be accountable? To who? You? Wto the Liberal members of Halton and their parachuted candidate – completly betraying the nomination process?
Why on earth would he not just pick a date, give it to me, and collect my resignation? See number 2 – vacate!
What 2 principles best describe Garth’s leadership style?
1)You go first, and
2)I’ll be right behind you
You poor pathetic old man
Bill
Ya Harper bring it on! if you have guts
Typical Turner. If you were the man of integrity you told us you were, you would resign now and run in a byelection or the general election that you say is coming in 60 days anyway.
Its amazing how ones priciples, especially liberals, change with the seasons. Now your high values are conditional upon someone else. You have surely revealed yourself to be what most already new, a liberal hipocrit.
Question though, how is it you have decided to be a team player with the liberals but never were with the Tories?
Garth, you will make a good liberal.
I believe you were quite critical about floor crossing, however I don’t recall Emerson, Khan and Stronach being so. It seems reasonable that you should offer to run in a by-election without obliging the others to do so. Are you against floor crossing or are you not?
Garth
Well congrats to you in making this impossible “damned if you do, damned if you don’t decision” Regardless of which way you would have gone there would always be detractors …The ones that are making negative noises won’t vote for you anyway so what the hey!!
I truly hope that you will be able to continue to be able to Blog as you have been, the liberals are famous for having very convincing whips! But you have proven that you don’t back off easily so I think all will be well. Going to the liberals is also a good idea at this time becasue I think change is in the air for the liberal party and that is always a good thing for the liberal party and Canada.
Go go go!!
2 wrongs don’t make a right. Don’t bother to sell that hunk of manure we can smell it a mile away. Please feel free to resign, we don’t need hypocrites like you to represent us. Really, I can assure you we will be OK. Your situation has nothing to do with Khan, because Khan didn’t go around throwing stones at people for the exact thing you just did!
BTW what happened in your Liberal caucus meeting today? Any dirt? Opps forgot that you are party seal now can’t say anything except tow the big red corrupt party line. How does it feel to be a total sellout Garth arrf arrf Brooks?
Garth, I know you have had a very busy couple of days, and you or your staff may have missed the email I sent you, I’ll fire it off to you again. I don’t expect you will be able to say yes, but there is a spot reserved for either way.
By the by, good luck as running as liberal, can’t say I’m a little dispointed in your choice, it would have been great to have you as the first Green MP in the house,… but it isn’t easy being green
Oh, ignore all the nasty twits out there, they are really full of it.
Zorph
So what say you, small dead yahoos???
oh by the way, if you need a good chuckle, please check out the following at JimBobby Sez,… can’t votvh for his sing ability but it is still funny
http://jimbobbysez.blogspot.com/2007/02/rawhide-on-rideau-song-audio.html
Heheh the Terrell Owens of Canadian politics. Now THAT’S funny
So aside from the other ideals and values you’ve conveniently forgotten what about promiseskept? Wasn’t it, in your words, “A new dawn for public voice and political accountability in Canada”??? Now all of a sudden it’s gone. Poof!
But hey whatever. You’re Dion’s problem now. If anything he’s now got another albatross around his neck.
I guess I’m a little disappointed in your action. I had hopes that you would be the start of a movement to an increased influence by independant members. I would love to see a house with 200 Chuck Cadmans in it.
However, you are at least one order of magnitude more savvy than me at politics. I’m not in your riding, but unless we end up with an independant conservative candidate I will be voting Liberal.
Wishing you the best.
The issue IS NOT, Garth’s own. Harper used to criticize floor-crossing, before he brought Emerson over.
I think we all know why Harper won’t do it. Because definitely Emerson and likely Khan would be kicked out by voters.
I popped in to read your blog today, as I was sure you would spout some ridiculous nonsense, and sure enough you did.
You are pathetic, and the worst kind of politician there is. A dummy who has yet to learn when to keep his self-serving yap shut and to start working for his constiuents.
I have no doubt you will be out on you ear in the next election. No one likes a loser, and you are quite clearly that.
Grow up, focus on your work, and quit making ignorant and useless statements in parliament. Oh yeah, and quit your crying you sad little publicity lover.
Smacks from the right, smacks from the left, smacks from the center. All that’s left are the handful of Garth Turner Superstar kool-aid drinkers. What a pit you’ve dug yourself into. Do you even think before you act?
So Garth, dont stop now. Every Wednesday you always came out on your blog and posted something of what happened in caucus…so lets have it.
What did the libs talk about today at the caucus meeting after the cameras left?
OR… Has the leader *jokes* of your party finally reigned you in like the good little boy you are?
So… come on… what happened. Give us details.
I think we need to lift this blog out of the gutter. At least show some respect for the man and the fact that we are allowed to express ourselves here.
Know any other MP that is willing to put up with this kind of behavior from perfect strangers?
I’m still a bit confused.
Is Garth saying that he would resign even if Khan does not? If he’s saying he’ll resign, on the exclusive condition that Harper promises to call a by election in Halton immediately thereafter, then Garth’s in the right according to his own principles. But if he’s only willing to resign if Khan does as well, then he’s ignoring his principles on condition that someone else also holds them, which shows them to be shallow at best.
Since Garth can’t be expected to answer all these comments, could someone clarify for me what exactly his conditions are for resignation? Thanks.
How clear does it have to be? I said to the PM, give me a date and I’ll give you my resignation. Period. Let’s go. — Garth
Dear Garth,
As per your questions above, I understand and agree completely. If PMSH were to suddenly ask everyone who has recently crossed the floor to run in a bi-election, there would be havoc. I’m not saying that shouldn’t be precisely what should happen-I think it is, but I also realize that there are bigger issues that should be accounted for by people (especially the people who comment here).
Namely, if the constituencies with floor-crossers were to go out an vote now, and then in approx. two months be engaged in another election, I think it is safe to say that voter turnout would be worse than usual–and that is no help to democracy when already voter turnout is at an all time low.
Furthermore, Garth, you are absolutely correct to ask Steve H to make everyone run in a bi-election as we all knew that he would sit there silent and let his lemmings take his cover in an obtuse and non-committal way. Because of these unequal standards, and because there is no guarantee that Garth will be able to run before the next federal election, he is clearly doing what he has always stated he would do: represent the people in a way that is effective. He has done this by speaking his mind, and he understood that he would have more leverage in the Liberal party than as an independent or green MP.
It is unfortunate that our system is not different, but I think that considering the circumstances, Garth, you did the right thing, for the right reasons. I do not believe you to be an opportunist, or someone who is more interested in job security than the people you represent. Indeed, as the only MP to so actively bring digital democracy to anyone who is willing, I think that shows that you have a real desire to work for the people. And I respect that.
Garth, I wish you were my MP! I would work for your re-election team because you represent to me the principles that I respect in politicians (note: it is not an ideal world yet). Indeed, I typically vote NDP, though I will probably vote Green this time, not that it matters much as I live in Kingston ON, where Peter Miliken is always re-elected–even though he is never here, dosent live here anymore, and as the speaker of the house with no vote (except in exceptional circumstances), he cannot represent me and my city.
So, Garth, don’t let the cheap and childish insults get to you. If I was in your shoes, maybe I would call a town hall in Holton, and really see what people are saying there (and not the trolls in this comment section).
But, as I said, if I were in your shoes, the only way that I can see to represent the people is to hold onto a seat until the next election, and in the next 60 days, vote on bills as you would have all along, and run again in the upcoming election.
I don’t think it could have been done in a better way that would have been effective. So, I support you 100%.
Best wishes,
A Queen’s University Grad Student
Aside from letting you knwo your a loser, I thought I might answer your question about why the PM won’t be caling a by-election for floor crossers?
1 – Because that is stupid.
2 – Because he never promised to do anything like that.
3 – Because it would be a waste of a few million dollars.
Because he is not as ignorant as you are.
4 – See #3!
Please stop wasting people time with your rhetoric. I think you and Scott Brison might be single handedly responsible for global warming with all the hot air you guys spew each day.
NCF: Actually, whether they say so or not, I hunch that most of the smacks are coming from the Conservative Party apologists. I’m not anyone’s kool-aid drinker. There are actually a quite a few things on which I would disagree with Mr. Turner, but admire his stand for democracy. He has explained it well, and for me, it makes sense.
Sorry for the spelling errors and grammar mistakes. Please do not call the grammar police on me.
Garth,
How clear does it have to be? I said to the PM, give me a date and I’ll give you my resignation. Period. Let’s go. — Garth
Thanks for the response. I guess I was just double checking that it was an unconditional offer, which it seems to be. As such, you have my full support, for what it’s worth (very little). Glad to see you stick to your principles even if others will not.
“How clear does it have to be? I said to the PM, give me a date and I’ll give you my resignation. Period. Let’s go. — Garth”
Wow! It’s up to the PM…
Once again Garth the order these things are done…. member resigns or dies…. PM calls a by-election. Quit being the tail trying to wag the dog. But I suppose that’s the only role you know.
“If you want to be a Liberal, be elected as a Liberal.†– Conservative Garth Turner
Right on Garth…. right on!
IT APPEARS THAT TORY HACK DOUG FINLEY HAS ENGAGED THE YOUNG CONSERVATIVE ASSOCIATION LEADERSHIP TO JAM GARTH TURNERS BLOQ WITH NEGATIVE COMMENTS.
typical harper and tory tactics.
all you do is expose yourselfs for what you really are.i love it !
I think my question has been answered, So does this mean tomorrow during QP you will re-ask your question of this afternoon with out the Khan and Emmerson By Election being included.
Garth,
having established that your esteem in the CPC and its circles has sunk to the lower depths, that others welcome, and many accept, your move to the LPC, is there anything else happening on the Hill?
Let’s be done with the neo-Con bloodsport and get back to federal politics as we knew it, i.e., problems, issues and ways and means of resolving them.
Garth: What you did is fair. You know it.
What other politician would allow for this sort of forum where people openly mock and belittle him… even when they make little to no sense. You don’t have to agree with Garth, but at least have some common sense.
He will run in a by-election if the date is set. If you were in his shoes you would do the same damn thing. No way I’m giving up my job/responsibilities if I don’t know I have another chance to run.
Now I’m assuming most of those who have little grasp of the word hypocrite on this forum are mostly conservative partisans. I hope because this isn’t a complex set of premises.
Mr. Turner,
I hope you have already figured out
the majority of those negative comments in the last 2 days comes from paid bashers. Harper and his gang are capable of anything. Don’t take their comments seriously.
Thank you for your effort in the income trust issue.
You earned my vote.
Stephen Karr: read the comments again. You’ll see many, many people who supported his “independence” and flirtation with the greens now calling him a hypocrite (and worse). The condemnation is damned-near universal. And no, there’s no conspiracy to flood this message board – that’s psycho talk.
Oh Peter Van Loan
Isn’t he the guy who got kicked out as President of the PC party of Canada for betraying confidences and undermining the leader?
Didn’t Peter McKay turn him in??
And this is the guy who trys to lecture you on this stuff.
What a big joke and I do mean big
Again it is all about Garth!!!!!!!Do the right thing and resign(as you have preached so eloquently in the past) ARE YOU CHICKEN?????
Garth, your still a hypocrite. If you are as principled as you used to claim, You would have resigned immediately as you had called on others to do. It’s still all about Garth. Let’s face it, your problems with the Conservative party started when you were passed over for a cabinet position.
It is still all about Garth as it has always been.
So what can we expect to see from GT Liberal that we did not see from GT Indie/Tory? As a backbencher, besides warming a seat, what are you bring to the table? Can you effect change? By being a Liberal, how does it make you better able to serve your constituants? What happens when Dion requires you to kowtow the party line? How will you react? Inquiring minds wanna know. Thanks.
Read this. — Garth
I am personally willing to go unrepresented in a parliament that couldn’t represent me anyways… I will go the 6 months, it isn’t going to change my life. I say quit now and prove yourself… I am still dissapointed in your moving, quit tomorrow and you still have my vote no matter what party…
Garth: How will I remember you? Lying Liberal weasel, a man who left all his principles on the steps of the House of Parliament. Too bad!
I’m glad you’ve joined the Liberals, Garth, but I’m just curious – procedurally, couldn’t you have worked with them, as an Independent, in all but name, and then ran under their banner in the next election? Either way, I’m glad you’re on OUR side.
Oh, and to jmccain, I agree with you, but rememeber, the more you are in the public face, the more opinion you are going to get. I like Garth, always have, but… when you say one thing, ie, and I got this in the mail 2 weeks ago, “I have more voice as an independent vs being with a party”, you have to wonder where the man decides his hypocritical brain is. Also, in the video he complains about how he can’t give you a “government tax credit” if he is independent. Sorry to say, I would have given him money if he wasn’t part of the liverals…. shame, real shame… and he is a hypocrite based on his past letters and videos, all you have to do is watch them.
Would you also notice that Garth can’t seem to respond to all of this since he is a liberal now? Too busy for his constituents..
Too bad Garth, hope your new leader can set priorities… “We didn’t get it Done”, what brilliant advertising.
Sure, repond to 800 comments in two days? Just a lucky one, like you. — Garth
I’m surprised you can even spell hypocrisy. To answer your question, “PMSH” isn’t likely losing any sleep over you. Besides, why take away the Liberals’ new liability?
What makes you so special that you refuse their offer for a bi-election unless the government meets your preconditions?
By the fed sux on 02.07.07 5:08 pm
Garth knows damn well as do the rest of you that if he resigned tomorrow Harper would let Halton riding sit vacant for the full 6 months Harper is allowed to stall.
Look folks, quit calling Garth your childish names and wake up. Garth was tossed out of the Conservative party, sat as a Independent for 4 months and held more town Hall/constituent meetings than any other member of Parliament would ever dream of holding. You are all just peeved that Garth is making Harper and the Cons look like the Fools they are.
Rex Murphy just called you a trout on The National, and used you as an example of what is wrong with Canadian politics. Congratulations.
Well, that’s it then. I will just wade into the sea. — Garth
Welcome to the party of the rational!
As a Mississauga-Streestville Liberal, I welcome you to the fold.
Rex Murphy on CBC National tonight: “”I didn’t leave my party, my party left me” is the parliamentary equivalent of “My dog ate my homework”, and was stale when Diefenbaker was a child”.
The writers at Rick Mercer and Air Farce must be creaming their jeans…
Uh, sorry Garth, but no matter what you think, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Parliament calls by-elections when there is a vacant seat. In case you are new to Canadian politics, that is the purpose of a by-election, to fill a seat that is vacant. Not about-to-be-vacant. But in fact, vacant.
Are there any vacant seats? No.
If you want to make one, that is up to you. But the democratic process of this country isn’t going to change because you want to play silly political games of chicken.
I hope tomorrow you’re able to ask the questions again and this time show some more outrage… “How DARE the PM let us turncoats sit here… why won’t he call by-elections in these un-vacant seats. This is an outrage… why won’t the PM ACT???”
And sadly, there’ll be those in the public that once again are taken in by the charade, and think that it really is the PM that is not acting… is not being principled.
People like Olaf, who several posts back gives you your support even though you snapped at him. Don’t fall for that answer, Olaf, the PM CANNOT call a by-election when the seat is not vacant. This “set a date and then I’ll resign” is backwards and absolutely ludicrous.
But then again…
“Liberals, I hate to say I am learning, lie, mislead, manipulate and do whatever it takes to get whatever they want.” – Garth Turner
Right,
Garth might make “Harper and the Cons like the Fools they are”.
He also makes himself look like a sleazy, opportunistic Canadian politician that gives Parliament a bad name. No wonder people do not vote.
Clowns to the left..jokers to the right, here I am Garth, stuck in the middle with you! Good man and way to go!
Garth;
What is the difference between a dickhead that doesn’t know the diffference between the price of money and the price of credit and a dickhead Ontarian opportunist with a stupid beard. No difference; same person.
Sincerely
Mikey in S’toon
Dear MP Turner:
I have a lot of respect for you because you’re not afraid to stand up for certain principles and ideas and represent your constituency, as opposed to being a drone in Harper’s collective.
I hope you win your riding in the next election!
Sincerely,
Billeh
Nice try Garth. Your argument is weak at best. If you want a by-election. Step down. I am sure Halton can survive without you for a couple of months. I cannot believe you joined the liberals. As Dryden likes to say “Unbelievable”.
A few questions to put Rex Murphy’s Turner rant on tonight’s “The National” into perspective -
1. Was Stronach kicked out of the Conservative caucus before joining the Liberals?
2. Was Emerson kicked out of the Liberal caucus before becoming a Conservative?
3. Was Khan kicked out of the Liberal caucus before joining the Conservatives?
4. Were either Stronach, Emerson or Khan told that they were not eligible to run again for their current parties before they crossed the floor?
5. Did either Stronach, Emerson or Khan sit as independents for a number of months before joining another party?
6. Was Turner kicked out of caucus and told that he would not be eligible to run for that party again?
7. Did Turner join another party while appearing to be in good standing with the party for which he was nominated and elected?
And let’s not even raise the question of immediate or potential rewards for crossing the floor.
Attaboy Murphy, comparing apples and oranges and pronouncing the result a lemon! What clarity of perception, what rigour of logic, what astuteness of judgement!
Hang in there Garth – the right wing rage will soon die out. Besides, in a few days, the looney right will run out of names to call you and get back to playing x-box games. As for your constituents, after the next election, they will call you MP…again.
Garth – as a resident of your riding I attended one of your 1st town hall meetings – at our local library – shortly after PMSH ‘suspended’ you – and was very impressed with what you had to say…but then I knew/know you from another era as I started in the life insurance business in 1965 – and even found a copy of one of your books “The Strategy†in my basement recently – as I was a fan then too
I voted for you the last time – voting more for the person than the party! & certainly would have voted for you as an indie, and maybe even as a greenie…but, given the corruption of the Chretien gang, I may have to hold my nose again!! As Paul Martin was a frequent contributor to the CALU organization when he was the finance minister I was impressed with him but something changed drastically when he finally became the PM!
No doubt you will survive the slings & arrows esp as most of them are coming from uninformed people – as you clearly did NOT cross the floor nor did you leave the C party – they clearly left you!!
Hang in there – as I know you will!!
Cheers
d
Why Garth should be the only person to resign? If he resigns then Wajid Khan, David Emerson needs to resign too. Halton is still a Urban area and near GTA which is a strong Liberal Base. Look at what David Emerson did? Vancouver Kingsway is highly urban area which is Liberal/NDP base and Wajid Khan’s riding is a strong liberal Base. Garth is man enough to challenge the PM to call a byelection if he calls byelection for those 2 riding.
After reading all these posts and the general sentiments out there I can only say that you are the best gift the CPC could give to the Fiberals. The fact that the Libs took you on, only proves how desperate they are.
As a person that was sick and tired of the corrupt one party rule Canada had endured these many years I want to thank you for joining the Fiberals because now I know you and them will lose this ridding.
Remember one thing Garth, Canadians tend to vote passionately for what they are against or what really angers them. That gets them to the poles, because everything else being equal the Libs and Cons are very similar these days.
Look at the anger you have generated, that means you are going to turn out people to vote against you in record numbers. You will be kicked out on your ass like you deserve.
If you followed your stated principals and ran in a by-election people might forgive you. But you are a hypocritical coward so you will hang on to your seat as long as you can in hopes this blows over.
And come to think of it, I can’t put it any clearer than that for those who profess not to see a difference either.
Face the facts, get out of partisan denial, and get back to politcs.
Watching you lose your seat will be even better than seeing Belinda in opposition.
What 2 principles best describe Garth’s leadership style?
1)You go first, and
2)I’ll be right behind you
You poor pathetic old man
Cam
Hmmm, as posts are deleted and people are being banned, things almost seem to be evening out in the for and against. Good thing you don’t control the ballot boxes… only this website….
And how many times have you posted in the last 24 hours? Ten? Twenty? Hmmmm, are you Doug Finley? — Garth
Garth: Rumour has it that the reason PMSH hasn’t yet chopped the budget of the CBC as he repeatedly threatened he would since his Reform days, is because of Rex Murphy. Murphy practically served as a mouthpiece for the Tories in the last election. Allegedly, CBC is cashing in its IOU after the Tories came to power.
Mr. Turner,
Your digital democracy doesn’t count for much when you only answer questions that allow you to repeat your spin-lines.
A lot of people have tried to get answers that go to the principles at stake here, and you have ignored them, choosing only to answer the less intelligent questions.
You’re not fooling anyone worth fooling with that strategy.
Do you have an intelligent question? — Garth
Wicked! Thanks for posting the vid of Stephan Dion and QP (Im a poor student, no tv).
For all of the people above who insist on complaining that Garth should resign his seat, watch the video on his homepage and recognize the fact that even if Garth resigned, there is NO guarantee that PMSH will call a bi-election.
Do you really think that it is a better idea for Halton to have NO representation at all, instead of Garth pushing his views on his constituients behalf over the next short while so that he can repsesent the people?
If PMSH says he will call, Garth will run. Without that guarantee, Garth cannot in good conscience leave his constituients un-represented.
You have to understand and respect that.
I echo the thought that you might think about not sitting as a liberal, but as running as a liberal in the next election.
One thing I find very interesting on this comment thread is how many people are calling Garth a hypocrite, but how few are attaching the same label to Harper.
Coordinated Tory negative comment attack? Nah.
Hi Randy.
“”Harper would let Halton riding sit vacant for the full 6 months Harper is allowed to stall”"
Even if he were to hold one immediately Harper still wouldn`t put Emersion to the test.
So we have the legitimate reasons Garth won`t resign. Even if he resigns in follows the principles he used to qualify his standard of integrity the other folks won`t do the right thing.
For all his high principled talk on having a mandate set by the people he`s going to avoid doing the right thing and put the blame on the people doing the wrong thing. This is a primary reason few Cdns trust Ottawa and I use the sux label. No one has to do the right thing because no one else is. MG how proud you must be of a system so ####ed up the right thing to do is the wrong thing.
I can see why they won`t stop the lies, frauds, hoaxes and thefts, no one else will stop so why should they.
Oust Ottawa
Amazing the number of people commenting here who have likely never gone to vote at a POLLING station, or perhaps gone to school…
Whatever you’re doing Garth, you have my blessing. The hornet’s nest you’ve stirred up speaks to Harper’s analogy of Canada and the south as wolverine and grizzly bear. Which is Canada?
Weird comparison Harper made about wolverines and bears at the Canadian Club. (You can tell that kid didn’t get into gov’t wildlife advocacy/info organizations back in the day.)
Wolverines: track, hunt or come across bears hibernating and take them out only because the bear is half-asleep, confined and clumsy; take over the bear den and bear carcass; raise a litter inside the bear meat (the original delivery?) bones and hide; leave in spring with the pups. Then hornets and wasps move in, make a big hive off the remains left behind. In a while birds get a clue and eat the wasps and hornets and leave the new resting place picked clean, wolverine stench free, and ready for the next winter.
In Grizzly cases, a wolverine may come across a grizzly who has hunkered down for a short duration (grizz don’t hibernate but may slow down in a place if conditions warrant and how fat they are) and a wolverine might get the best of it. Rarely though. If not, wolverine runs away. Another thing about wolverines is they don’t play well with others not their kind, and barely tolerate their own kind.
He might have come up with a better comparison than Aretha Franklin in “Who’s Zoomin Who” without even realizing it.
As a Canadian what do you think about Harper’s wolverine and bear analogy?
Perhaps you are to be congratulated above all else for having the chutzpah to keep this blog open. But I suppose a thick skin (and an inflated sense of self-importance) comes with the territory – or more likely vice versa…
(Btw, I notice the copyright notice at the bottom of this page includes: “…Garth Turner, P.C., M.P. ….” Any chance the PC stands for Private Citizen? And what about M.P.? Does that mean Menteur Politique?)
Whether a by election is called for Halton in a short period of time or not, the right thing for you to do is resign. I am a resident of your constituency, and I voted for you to represent me as a conservative in Parliament, NOT as a Liberal. I would rather be without representation than have you decide you have the right to change parties without asking the voters if they agree. I can guarantee that if a by election is run, and if you run as a Liberal, you will NOT get my vote. do the honorable thing you are always preaching about. Resign and ask the voters what they want.
Gee, a Conservartive voter who wants me to resign. I am sure that is an alturistic position. — Garth
I am surprised at the number of people who think there is some sort of conspiracy to flood the comments with negativity. How else can someone who is not asleep respond to behaviour like G-Tizzle displayed yesterday?
Im no expert, but I didn’t know that the PM could call a by-election simply because the MP is someone he doesn’t like, or has crossed the floor. Maybe Mr. Turner will point out where in the parliamentary rules this is so that I can get up to speed. Im a Conservative, but no one is asking me or paying me to write how I feel on here. Amazing to me how deep the Liberal psychosis goes.
Having by elections now, months before a likely election would be a huge waste of money as the winners of the by elections would have to run again immediately. How is that fair to tax payers? Wasting several million dollars so that G-Tizzle can get himself on the news.
Psst, Tizzle. I have a secret for you. The reason PMSH will not call an election is that it is part of his secret right wing agenda. Very hush, hush.
Is it true that G_T is taking down peoples posts? If there is no vulgar language and no one is cursing I think it should stand. Even if you think there is a secret right-wing conspiracy led by Doug Fisher or whomever you guys have blamed.
I dont think you should resign big guy. Crossing the floor is not a bad thing really. It’s part of the system. Anyone who does want you to resign should be ignored, just sour grapes from them.
They should really want you to resign for the spectacle you put on yesterday. that was some embarrasing stuff.
Red means dead; Blue sails true
My, my – you struck a nerve with all those Harper worshipers – seems to me that if you were no loss at all to the Conservatives they wouldn’t be so upset and resort to pitiful name calling.
Now, I take it that you must be a loss or it wouldn’t matter to them would it?
How clear does it have to be? I said to the PM, give me a date and I’ll give you my resignation. Period. Let’s go. — Garth
No Garth, you did not make it that clear:
Today in Question Period I asked the prime minister two questions:
(1) Will he immediately work towards calling by-elections in Halton, Vancouver-Kingsway (Emerson) and Mississauga-Streetsville (Khan), so we three members can be accountable to the people?
Stephen Harper did not answer. Instead he had House Leader Peter van Loan stand up and say I could resign if I want. So, I said,
(2) If the prime minister calls a by-election in Halton today, I will resign my seat today, so the people of the riding are without an MP only for a few weeks before the vote. Will he do that, yes or no? And if I quit, will he ensure Wajid Khan also resigns, for a by-election for that floor-crosser?
In both questions, you tied your quitting and running in a by-election to 2 other people also quitting and running in a by-election. Except that neither Harper, Khan or Emerson has ever said that a floor-crosser should resign and run in a by-election. YOU did!
People in glass houses should not throw stones, and after throwing stones for the last year, you now are trying to protect your new glass house.
I have no use for the Liberals and I am sad you choose to inflate the pompous Dion balloon. If you think he’s a real environmentalist, ask yourself why former Environment Miniser David Anderson refuses to run under Dion’s leadership, giving as his reason the fact that PM Martin wouldn’t listen on the subject. It’s an oblique but telling choice of words by the one-time External Affairs officer. It’s diplo-speak for “Dion is a continuation of Martin and if you don’t believe me, just ask Mark Marissen.”
But enough of that. I’ve read about the first thirty or so entries and I have to say you’re winning this discussion. The Tory bloggers are so lame in responding to your offer of a resignation in exchange for an immediate byelection that it’s not even funny.
The only lamer political spin I have seen in the last few days is Premier Gordon Campbell’s incredibly threadbare rationale as to why he didn’t have to resign for drunk driving but his Mining Minister had to resign for sending out an angry Email with swear words in it.
I think its rather ripe that Garth keeps denigrating the responses of “Conservative Voters”.
Which voters got you elected, you fool?
I’m surprised at how many people refer to the jump from an independent seat to a Liberal seat as “party-jumping” etc. Garth didn’t cross the floor, so to speak. People can say that he brought it on himself, but the fact was that he was booted out of the Conservative Party and spent four months as an independent–he didn’t quit the Conservatives at lunch and join the CPC at afternoonsies. Anyway, as much as people made of the Khan and Emerson defections, they ultimately work against the CPC, because there’s no way that either DE or WK will win their seats back.
I don’t support either the Liberals or Conservatives, generally speaking; but I’m not crazy about Stephen Harper and his “way,” so I’m generally hoping for a Liberal minority next election–though whether the Liberals can restore some credibility to their party after the Chrétien years remains to be seen.
Mr Turner,
Not waiting for an election to caucus with the Liberals (or any other party) is hypocritical in the extreme. Your reasons, although I believe you have convinced yourself they are valid, are irrelevant. The people voted for you and the conservative party. Even though you can probably weasel some concessions for your constituents from this deal your constituents would have been better served by you if you were still capable of being held to your word.
Mr Turner.
Congartulations on having guts to do what you believe in. I hope in the near future, you will Mr Dion your expert views and opinions on the income trust fiasco. I, personally lost over $30,000.
Burt
Garth, good on you. You are doing the right thing…and why don’t don’t you have a twin brother or sister out here in BC? We are in desperate need provincially. Our liberals are not anyone elses liberals.
Bud..I’d love to ask Mark Marissen questions, but not about Dion, but about the BC Rail Scam Sale (999 year lease) Hiring him was a huge mistake. I admire Dion for many reasons for all that I have been mostly loyal NDP, but someone has given him bad advice. Loose the old old crowd, loose the old crooks. Please.
re: Emerson. They protested in the streets crying for a by-election. The people in his riding were so upset and pissed off. He will not get in again. And he sold us all out on Softwood. I’m sure he’s tied up tight with the SSP too. Yes Garth, it’s true and it’s happening. Not a conspiracy theory.
But a big thank you Garth. I have learned more about the day to day goings on of this government of ours directly because of your website and blog. You truly have brought it directly to the people, far beyond you own riding.
G…North Vancouver…wet coast of BC
Put up or shut up,resign.Qiut trying to rationalize your own past statements!
Garth you repeated have said:I find it strange so many people coming to this blog can write, but they can’t read. I said unequivocably that I would trade my resgnation for a by-election date. So there is your answer. As for whatever the Lib process is, that’s fine with me (and the former incumbant is now a regional politician). — Garth
=====================
Every time you say it you insult us, we the public are not FOOLS! The fact is, if you RESIGN Harper has no alternative but to call a by-election. DUH!
How many times do you have to be told?
Jerry
You have nothing to tell me, Jerry in Ottawa. — Garth
Why don’t you just resign, no pre-conditions? I’d rather have no MP and take it out on the CPC if it takes too long for the PM to call an election, than have representation from an MP who has decided to serve under a different party banner.
Resign.
EARTH TO TIM: You have now exceeded your daily quota. — Garth
That’s right, it’s all about what TD (Tim) wants. ME ME ME!
Garth is holding Town halls and other discussions explaining his decision.
Garth didn’t cross the floor, he was an independent!
EARTH TO GARTH: You exceeded your daily quota days ago. Show you have the balls boy “RESIGN”
After viewing the posts there are two things I want to say: 1). when an individual makes a decision to sit as an independent you make it with conviction, and as a measure to view the possibilities and potential of that decision, and 2). when you know that a decision has more negatives than positives, you continue to make future decisions based on potential and possibility…in this case, with regard to Garth’s Halton constitutients, his decision was based on potential and possibility. Garth took the time to consider how best he could represent Halton by sitting as an Independent, and as an MP, he must also consider where his principles best fit. You cannot make a decision like this without having to consider what you stand for and who you are…decisions and personal values are not fixed or etched in stone. Principle and integrity come from growth, understanding, and change…passion about your committments make for good policy~! Congratulations to Garth and Halton constitutients for principle and integrity. Leaders induce change…PMSH is not a leader.
You resign Garth, without the conditions. We all notice that you never put conditions on the requests to resign to other floor crossers.
It’s hard squaring your circle isn’t it?
Man, I would have been happy to hear David Emerson say what I did: “Give me a by-election date and I’ll give you my resignation.” Wouldn’t you? — Garth
Fight for income trust and I’ll forgive you for joining the liberals.
Deal. — Garth
How many times do you have to be told?
Jerry
Good point Jerry. How many times “DO YOU” have to be told.
Garth has stood up in Parliament in front of the whole country and offered his resignation if Harper would guarantee that he will indeed call a by election immediately after the resignation is accepted, within 6 weeks of his resignation.
Harper on the other hands hasn’t got the guts to stand up in the house before the country and go on record and say fair enough. Resign, and I will call for a by election to be held with in 6 weeks. Why is that so unfair? Might be because he knows he can’t back out of it if it is on record in front of all to see.
Truth @ 12:56 said: “I think its rather ripe that Garth keeps denigrating the responses of “Conservative Votersâ€.
Which voters got you elected, you fool?”
Ha Ha! How’s it feel? At least you didn’t have to suffer through a victory speech where your newly elected MP says “Thank you! … this is the first step on the way to a Con errrr ummmm Liberal Majority!” Then get to hear said MP denigrate voters who protest when you slyly show up at enemy headquarters to be sworn in to the party you swore to be the “…worst enemy” of? How do you like it? It’s good, no? Has an MP called you a locust yet?
Harper might not be able to call a by-election in Halton while Garth sits, but nothing is stopping his open, accountable and ethical heart from doing it in the other ridings: Emerson and Khan. Then, Garth will resign and run in his. The move house out-Harper’d Harper, and I love. Ball’s in Mr. Ethics court now. Let’s see him move it forward.
Carry on Garth!
Garth, everybody knows that PMSH cannot afford the risk of by-elections. He needs the two seats and the safest way is to keep them. He is still hoping to be able to use the NDP’s ill gotten seats to stay in power, although it looks and sounds as if that love affair is ending or has ended hence the rumors of an election call in a month or two.
I found your description of the athmosphere in the Liberal Caucus compared to thet of the Cp caucus very revealing. That alone would turn me off the Conservatives if I was not a staunch Liberal.
As we have seen in the badly montaged adio/video of the Liberal Leadership campaign made into ads Dion allows his people to disagree with him. Would PMSH ?
Mr Dion is starting to look Prime Ministerial and he’ll do a fine job if all the voters who were fooled by PMSH’s simple promises and lies about the Liberal Party’s morality when they temporarily deserted the Liberals. They were put to sleep by that mantra of transparency, government clean-up, standing up for Canada they are now awake and will return to tha Party they trusted for so many years. They have tyried the new flavor and will decide to go back to their original taste.
An old saying I once heard is fitting here : “he/she who lives in a glass house should dress in the basement”.
Anyone who thinks that the CP is any better than the Liberal Party is dreaming. All participants are Canadians except they disagree on how to be Canadians.
Presuming you have read election legislation, I am surprised by your dishonesty of the by-election process. Why do you pretend that the Prime Minister can call a by-election for Halton, Ontario when there is no vacancy in the riding. Please stop your rationalization and resign your seat.
I’m a bit confused as to how you ever convinced anyone to vote for you when you obviously don’t know how the system works. Byelections are called for vacant seats. There is a time limit in place in the rules of parliment. Resign your seat and PMSH will be forced to call a byelection. Trying to force the timing so that it favors you only makes you appear to be opportunistic and/or scared of what might happen in due course. Trying to force others to resign to support your convictions only makes you appear to be a scared follower.
Why claim that you are doing what is right for your constituents by ensuring a byelection will be timely when NOT A SINGLE PERSON at your town hall meeting thought you joining the Liberals was in their best interest?
Your actions seem to imply that you do not have what is in their best interests at heart, but what is in your own best interests. Congratulations on further demonstrating that politians are not honorable.
And kudos for you not being able to read. This topic has been done to death here. Move on already. — Garth
You claim the topic has been done yet you have provided no answers.
Why link your resignation to others, or to an arbitrary demand that PMSH call an immediate byelection that only benefits you (and NOT your constituents as you claim)?
If you truly cared about what your constituents think, why not honor their expressed wishes by continuing to sit as an independant? What does joining the Liberal party gain your constituents at this time?
The answers to your old questions are in the post below, “Right choice.” Try reading before speaking. — Garth
And kudos for you not being able to read. This topic has been done to death here. Move on already. — Garth
Right…. so in other words, you have no answer, and you just don’t feel like telling people you have no answer.
You sir, are a hypocrite. Your constituents clearly expressed their opinion to you, and you did the opposite. And then you run and hide behind others instead of doing what you claim your principles force you to do.
Sad.
Didn’t you just say this? Move on. — Garth
“And come to think of it, I can’t put it any clearer than that for those who profess not to see a difference either.”
Hey Herb, I put it clearly. Garth ran as a Conservative, and now sits as a Liberal within the same mandate. He crossed the floor. I don’t care how long he flirted with the other parties, or if he was booted by his previous party, he started as a Conservative, he is now a Liberal, he crossed the floor. Period. End of story. It is way too clear, no matter how many excuses you try to use.
Mr. Turner,
I stand by your decisions.