As you may have heard, I joined the federal Liberal caucus this week. The announcement of that came in a media conference held with party leader Stephane Dion. We met in his office on the fourth floor of the Centre Block, which is a close copy of the one immediatley below, occupied by the prime minister.
From there we went through the building, into the basement, through the tunnel under the front lawn of Parliament Hill, into the West Block, out into the cold air, across Wellington Street in downtown Ottawa, to the National Press Building, into the green room to prepare, then on to the live media event.
MPtv, of course, was there – hanging out where it had absolutely no right to be, beeing cheeky and troublesome as ever. So, here is a behind-the-scenes look at those few minutes leading to the media event, the event itself, and then, The Escape.
The video is now live.
71 comments ↓
Think on this Garth, these are your own words. After you read them, tell me how you could join this party?
The sponsorship debacle; the gross incompetence exhibited by those responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars; the disturbing lack of ethics among Liberal politicians; twelve years of sheer arrogance from various and sundry Liberals; lies about the GST; the patronizing attitude of Liberals toward Canadian parents (beer & popcorn, anyone?); the nasty and bordering-on-racist comments from Liberal candidates against their competitors (that ugly “Switched at birth†Olivia Chow/Chow Chow dog photo and writeup on a Liberal website); the gun registry boondoggle; Paul Martin flying foreign flags on his shipping company’s ships in order to avoid Canadian taxes; the dishonesty and hypocrisy of Liberals carrying on ad nauseum about two tier health care while conveniently ignoring the fact that B.C. and Quebec already have booming private health care industries; the gutting of the Canadian armed forces; the gleeful stirring of anti-American sentiments while being weak-willed and spineless when it comes to resolving legitimate disagreements with our largest trading partner.
I could go on and on, but suffice it to say that I am of the view that it is time to oust this corrupt and ineffective government.
I am afraid Mr. Harper is not a worthy successor, and the Liberals have reinvented under Stephane Dion. He’s the best option right now for this PC refugee. — Garth
So everything starts fresh and new after an election? All the things of the past forgotten? That explains your actions as of recent.
Maybe you can track down the money the Liberals stole?
“He’s the best option right now for this PC refugee. — Garth”
As opposed to being good for the people that PC refugee represents…
Garth, you’re a laugh. Offering to resign only if they do. You know as well as anyone else that this will never happen, and so you pull the “You First” card – in a hilarious attempt to restore your shattered credibility. It’s exactly like when schoolchildren dare each other to do something, be it “ask a girl out”, “enter a haunted house”. Something that takes bravery.
You are the coward with the slick hair that hangs to the back(bench) smirks and goes “I’m the bravest! If you cowards go first, then I’ll not only barge in, but I’ll stay the night, too!”
Knowing full well that it’s a gutless wager, as you will never be called on it.
Why don’t YOU go first? Aren’t YOU supposedly the moral superior of these evil floor crossers? Be a man.
Ever considered anger management? — Garth
“the Liberals have been reinvented under Stephane Dion.” You do understand that Dion spent his entire political career under the “old” Liberal regime, right?
What you mean is, you’re not worthy.
The Liberals have reinvented nothing under that failed Minister of the Environment. It’s just the same old same old but with new faces and less brains.
“I am afraid Mr. Harper is not a worthy successor, and the Liberals have reinvented under Stephane Dion. He’s the best option right now for this PC refugee. — Garth”
I am convinced with with the political movement that was rising up within Canada under Garth’s catalytic leadership ever since he was ouusted from the Tory caucus, that he tapped into something powerful that resonated with Canadians from coast-to-coast-to-coast. There was the beginnings of an uprising of the common sense of the common people who want to change the way politics is done in Ottawa.
Garth was the undisputed leader of that reform movement, and had he chosen to form a new political party under his leadership, I am convinced that he could have become Prime Minister within 5 years–electing a core of MPs in the next election, and sweeping the country in the election after that.
It is a grievous thing that that opportunity has now been missed, and we are left with the same old, same old. And while there is much spin doctoring to give the appearance of change, it is evident that Garth is now a part of the same corrupt system that the populace so desperately wants to change.
Who will now lead the charge on Parliament Hill? Who can this disaffected voters put their trust in?
To think what might have been. To think we could have had PMGT. The people would have stayed with him all the way.
Now, as we have left is a memory turned sour. Weep for Canada!
So Garth, I hear your leader will be forcing candidates like yourself to be replaced by women. Are you going to be a victim of this new policy?
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes stuff, Garth. That’s always interesting.
Since the article and comment so far is about Dion, I’d like to ask you a question that I hope you answer honestly but doesn’t get you in trouble.
I like Dion well enough, I predicted a year ago he would become Liberal leader. One of the first things he did as leader was tell Wajid Khan he could no longer be an advisor to PMSH. Faced with the ultimatum, Khan left the party and went to the Conservatives rather than stop being an advisor to Harper.
I had thought it was neat that a Conservative PM would call a Liberal MP for advice. It’s the type of Parliament that I’d like to see more of, where the MP’s can help out in their area of expertise, regardless of the party they belong to.
Do you think Dion was right to issue this ultimatum?
It was Khan who called Harper, and volunteered to work for the PM. His caucus colleagues were very disturned at having a PMO worker in their midst. Can’t blame them. Wajid could have done his chosen work, and resigned from the Lib caucus. — Garth
it is not hard to see the who is PC and who is not, the pm is without emotion a cardboard figure, his profile shadow reminds me of Alfred Hitchcock and just as scary as his movies.
Had Garth only formed a new political party, then he could have taken PMSH on head-to-head in a national television debate, and I think we all know that Garth would have scored handsomely and outdebated his opponent by a wide margin. In fact, it wouldn’t even have been close!
Now that opportunity may have been lost forever. I know of a number of people who have submitted postings on this blog who really wanted to see Garth become our Prime Minister, as he best exemplified and role-modelled what they wanted in their leadership, and would have given a voice to the little man, and would have empowered the average citizens to be the real bosses in Ottawa.
Imagine the sense of disappointment and even betrayal now that Garth has settled for something mediocre when he could have had the best. He could have led the charge, and many would have joined the bandwagon campaigning for Garth for Prime Minister.
I am still hoping that the sudden devastation of those hopes has been only a bad dream. Please tell me that it isn’t so.
Hi Garth
I really like your style and courage, I am sure you will be re-elected anytime because you speak for the people, and we need more politicians like you. Since you are in Liberal caucus, I am sure you will speak for all the seniors and baby boomers who lost money on Income Trust, the NDP introduce a motion today that make the situation even worse, I wondered what will be the Liberal’s platform on Income Trust?
Regards
George F.
Richmond, B.C.
Garth,
I know you will stay the course to your principles regardless of the Party affiliation and you accordingly have my respect and support. One of your more passionate issues of income splitting is the top of mind with myself and many more Canadians in the middle class that are taxed to the highest degree. My spouse and I value the ability to have a ‘work at home’ mom in our children’s life. We do not demand daycare, daycare support or are a burden in an overcrowded system. We sincerely believe that our children will benefit from this experience.
However, I am tired of having the vocal dual income with kids families achieve all the benefits of our tax system to the point that we are in effect subsidizing them in their pursuit of a better lifestyle through having 2 income earners and all the tax advantages and child-care subsidies that go along with this. The party that recognizes and makes moves to equalize this inequity will be rewarded. Sure support the dual income families but don’t forget about the single income families that inherently have a harder struggle in the tax system.
I read that the Liberals don’t support income splitting… the Conservatives may… with your departure they may not! With your departure the Conservatives may drop the issue out of spite. Is there room for a private members bill on the subject?
What is your view on the subject… will the Liberals now put more equity into the tax system through income splitting?
We need Government that does the right thing and supports different lifestyle choices equally… this is a policy that all parties should embrace.
Stay the course… get the Liberals on board my family depends on it!
Regards, Ken
Garth, you made the right move, you are going to be an asset to Liberals and you have a large following that are supporting you. Renews my confidence in the Liberal renewal.
So Garth, Elizabeth May and the Green Party are a one-trick pony, eh? I watched Michael Coren tonight and I just couldn’t believe that you would say that. Even I know that the Green Party has a full wide ranging platform. You may or may not agree with them, but, you of all people should acknowledge that their platform.
I recall (a) praising EM on that show, and (b) saying she should be in the House and I would help her get there. I also said the GPC platform was not developed enough at this time (in my view) for me to stand on in Halton. This stated with 100% certainly that I know more about this than you do. — Garth
You still won’t resign… you blamed the leader before, now you are blaming the leader Harper for not liviing up to calling an election. Resign, just resign… I will vote for you again if you do, because if you do, you are going by what you have spoke of before from the other people moving parties… you didn’t floor cross, we know this, but… you still joined the liberals from indie… you have to resign to let the public decide… it is our decision to be pissed off at the PM for not calling the election… stop playing political cards.
INTEGRITY
Garth Turner seems to be a man who lives without integrity to me. To hinge the right course of action on what would be a poor decision from the PM is pathetic.
————————————–
GARBAGE!!
Plain and simple, all these issues about income trusts were known by harper and flaherty before they were elected and
> BEFORE they made the promise of no taxation of income trusts.. It is the
> promise and the investment decisions people made as a result of that
> promise that is the issue.
>
> flaherty and Mr. Harper ended up costing many many Canadians significant $ as
> a result of this PROMISE.
>
> Dress it up what ever way you like but that is the facts and that is why
the conservatives will lose our votes.
to say that gath turner has no integrity is ludicrous.i don,t know dion but i do know harper (now!!).dion strikes me as a straight forward guy. not decietful at all.
harper is a liar.i can,t stand a liar. i was peed off at the liberals the last election and couldn,t wait to get them out of power and get harper in.he suckered us and myself and many others who voted him into power are we,re even more adamant in giving him the boot.this will be a deciding factor in the next election. so you cons can enjoy your fear mongering and ranting, threats and bullying but your history.i,ve never been in the least politically active..my friends and aquantances are the same.
that,s what happens to liars.
Hi Garth,
Just a note to thank you,for all you are doing ,and all you have.Good luck ! I do not presume to know better than you what you should do,I trust you for that,You are out front and center,we know who you are,by readind or watching you.We on the other hand hide behind keyboards,condeming you as if we know it all.Bless you for allowing such showing of human nature at its worse on your blog,You are more of a honest human than what is hidden behind demeaning manners displayed by some here.Keep up the battle,win you shall.Many of us are behind you,and darn we unfortunately are not even in your riding!
Go For The Gold Garth
Respectfully
P.Konings
Kitchener Ontario
Oh Garth…I have now totally lost all faith in politicians…you were a glimmer of hope this country had for making some real change to the system. You were doing the right things for so long, now you seem to have sold out and taken the easier road. Were you really that lonely? Could you not have fought on as an independent for a while longer? I wish you no ill will, but I find the situation very sad.
Great job in parliament the other day!! Now Keep up the pressure on income trust Grandfathering the Oil and Gas trusts they make sense or have no corporate taxes in Canada and Tax every thing in the hands of investors 15% for non residents. Our economy would boom and another thing I would like to see is a 10% compulsory contribution to a RRSP instead of a 10% contribution to Cpp. With the investments controlled by the individual. The CPP and OAS and all Veterans’ pensions would be phased out over 20 years with the multiple departments and replaced by a guaranteed income for the disabled, all new employees would go on the new plan with compound interest even at the lowest income level they all would be millionaires by age 65.EI would become a real insurance program, welfare would have a life time limit of say 24 months. Or 48 if registered in a university or college program. The perfect program but might be too far out there is a flat 15% SALES TAX GST AND NO Income or corporate tax very easy to administer and impossible to avoid. All non residents pay standard withholding tax of 15%. JUST THINK OF THE MONEY THAT COULD BE SAVED ON GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND THE CORPORATE WORLD WOULD NOT NEED THERE CURRENT ARMY OF TAX ACCOUNTANTS AND THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD NOT HAVE TO FILE EACH YEAR COSTING HIM 50 to 100 dollars to find out how much tax they pay or will get back. Good Luck and congrats again Jim Walker Alberta
Garth,
I live in Oakville and voted for you last time.
We (me and my wife) WILL VOTE FOR YOU AGAIN!!!. (We support your move to the liberal camp).
Thanks..
Alex
Thanks to MPtv (and Bruce) for regular clips of life on the Hill that go beyond potted photo ops.
It’s instructive to see talking heads stand, walk and wait just like human beings. Kind of reminds you of their limitations – and possibilities.
“Garth, you’re a laugh. Offering to resign only if they do. You know as well as anyone else that this will never happen, and so you pull the “You First†card – in a hilarious attempt to restore your shattered credibility. It’s exactly like when schoolchildren dare each other to do something, be it “ask a girl outâ€, “enter a haunted houseâ€. Something that takes bravery.
You are the coward with the slick hair that hangs to the back(bench) smirks and goes “I’m the bravest! If you cowards go first, then I’ll not only barge in, but I’ll stay the night, too!â€
Knowing full well that it’s a gutless wager, as you will never be called on it.
Why don’t YOU go first? Aren’t YOU supposedly the moral superior of these evil floor crossers? Be a man.
Ever considered anger management? — Garth”
This is what a man says when he has no answer to the question. Your liberal overlords sure have taught you how to duck the truth.
Instead of a one-liner fit for a Bollywood film, how about you face the facts?
You’re a liar, a hypocrite, a loudmouth, and entirely bereft of what a man might call a spine.
The worst part is that you know it, and instead of admitting it, you choose to hide behind political ploys that seem to have been devised by kids playing in the sandbox.
You must think Canadians are awfully stupid to believe your self-aggrandizing shtick any longer.
I was hoping to read and comment on some Progressive Conservative policy while I was briefly visiting here from far away.
Liberals are not Progressive Conservatives.
It appears I am visiting the wrong place.
Garth, this video is quite excellent. Must have more like this.
Transparency in government, who’d have thought we’d ever see it like this.
“I recall (a) praising EM on that show, and (b) saying she should be in the House and I would help her get there. I also said the GPC platform was not developed enough at this time (in my view) for me to stand on in Halton. This stated with 100% certainly that I know more about this than you do. — Garth”
Now I feel better… finally an honest answer as to why it wasn’t going to be a green membership. What kind of suggestions did make to EM for a better platform? In other words: how is it underdeveloped?
BTW: Nice shots from your announcement!.. LOVED your French!
well garth looks like your fiting in with the liberals very well the minit you walk into the room they ask you for money. this lloks like it could have been filmed in any dark place in quebec liberals taking money. but all that aside why is most of this movie dubed over what are you realy saying to mr dion what promises were made the problem with video is your lips were moving so it must be a lie. anyways i know a lip reader who is going to see what everyone is saying mr dion looked ticked off in the video well see what was realy said .play the real video with voices please if not i will post what was said for real not that good for you if people realy new what was said is it garth pretty imberasing for you and mr dion
Btw brownie points for not leaving the limo idling like Bev Oda!
Hello Garth
As a history student I know that this video you put out today will be used one day by people doing some research. I was just wondering if you could make a copy with out the music available for people interested in political history.
I know that one of my next papers will deal with the floor crossing issue in Canadian history and this would be great help.
Thanks
Fadi
Lakehead University
Thunder Bay, ON
Yea, as in Garth polled, found out he has even less of a snowballs chance in hell of winning as a Green, and so decided he likes his easy money and picked the easiest horse in the Riding.
This guy has more painted faces than the Red Light District, and the same moral strictures as well
Can’t you at least insult me in the first person? — Garth
I am afraid Mr. Harper is not a worthy successor, and the Liberals have reinvented under Stephane Dion. He’s the best option right now for this PC refugee. — Garth
Really? Is that what you think? Well, your former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, the last Progressive Conservative AND Prime Minister of Canada to win a TRUE majority government, seems to support Mr. Harper just fine. I really don’t buy this “socially progressive and fiscally Conservative” hogwash, because you’ve joined a party that is just the opposite (unless it’s to line some pockets in Quebec.) The Liberals have reinvented nothing under Dion, and you know that. Stop with the intellectual dishonesty, would ya?
I will say another thing though, I do have major respect for you in allowing comments on your blog from those who disagree with you, myself included. That’s a healthy practice to engage in…despite what people think of you.
“As you may have heard, I joined the federal Liberal caucus this week…”
No, actually, I hadn’t noticed.
By the way, this whole “PC refugee” stuff is ridiculous. Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney supports Stephen Harper, therefore, your position on the matter is nothing but intellectual dishonesty. Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story, though…
By the way, I do respect you for allowing comments from those who disagree with you here on your blog. Something a certain “Liblogs” doesn’t practice very often…
What the? Where have my comments gone? Guess I’m banned or something..
Testing, testing..is this thing on?
Can’t you at least insult me in the first person? — Garth
I remember the saleman who said, “I have had doors slammed in my face, been yelled at, and called every abuse term in the book, but insulted? Never!
Let’s cut out attempting to insult one another–whether it be the honourable member of Halton, or the Right Honourable Prime Minister of Canada!
We can surely disagree with one another’s beliefs without attacking the person.
To counteract some of the “insults,” I will still say that I wish that Garth has run for Prime Minister.
He would bring freedom to the caucus, and allow MPs to speak their minds and the minds of their constituents, even if it disagreed with clear party policy.
O that he hadn’t signed on with the Liberals, indefinitely shelving any hopes of greater aspirations that he has the potential to attain.
My advice would be, “If you have the potential to be a PM, don’t become dyslexic and settle to become a mere MP.”
Simply my 2 cents worth, my modest input, for whatever it is worth.
OK, I know I don’t know you, but I got used to seeing your face every week in my local newpaper, and enjoyed your financial reports.
I was applauding your move to “independence†from Harper’s Conservatives, and jumped for joy today, when I heard that you had joined Dion’s Liberal team.
My two daughters and I were in Montreal as Dion Delegates, and they are applauding too.
It seems to be a move you are comfortable about making, and that is what is important. I am hoping to see a new face to the Liberal Party in this next election, and I believe people like you, Gerrard Kennedy, David Orchard, and Stephan Dion will help create the image that Canadians will be attracted to.
Congratulations,
Loreta
OK-Coquilhala Riding – Home to Stockwell Day
Garth,
Thanks for being so open and transparent about some of the processes behind the scenes that we are normally not privy to. It is very illuminating, to say the least. As per your earlier interview with Stephan Dion, I agree that the Right has lost its progressive wing and that the progressives, in order to work to accomplish representing a constituency, basically have to join the Liberals. This, as I see it, is because the Liberals will likely form a government within the next few years (perhaps sooner than later) and as a party that more closely can represent disaffected PCs, it is a means to an end. Not a perfect solution, but the most favourable to achieving the goals that I believe Garth has set out to accomplish.
While I understand that some of Garth’s constituents (and odd ball others) are upset that they cannot, right this second, attempt to vote in a conservative MP, as Garth mentioned before, there was almost an even split between Conservative and Liberal voters in Halton, and I suspect that many people there voted for Garth because of his charisma as well as his ability to be economically responsible and socially progressive. I see no reason why this will change with Garth in the Liberal party. He is the same person with the same views, and in the Liberal party at least he (and therefore we) will have a representative and will at the same time be included in what is really going on at Parliament Hill.
And to the Neo-cons out there who are lambasting Garth on this comment thread, breathe easy knowing that the conservatives are still in power and their agenda will still be brought forward. But remember, at the end of the day, as I understand it, one person was not permitted to make much of a difference to Steve Harper’s ideologies anyhow–not in caucus, not in promoting innovative new ideas, and not in voting with a conscience. Therefore, I would argue, a conservative MP that is muzzled is as good as non-representation in the end.
To the people from Halton, and also to the rest of the people who believe that a government is as good as the sum of its parts, it is reassuring to know that Garth will be there to speak his mind and stand up for what is right. I do not vote conservative or liberal, but I think that I will sleep better knowing that Garth is there once Steve H is booted out of office. Politics is not easy and Canadian democracy is not perfect, but my respect goes out to you Garth, as I believe that you are doing the best you (or anyone else) could ask for in this crazy system.
Cheers,
–Syd
Garth Turner rocks he is another MP that I like a lot. About his floor crossing; I am not upset that he crossed the floor for several reasons some of which are pointed out in this video below. I also have laied out my reasons for accepting his crossing the to the Liberals below. By the way I liked him both when he was a Idependent and Tory MP.
First He was booted from the Tory caucus for speaking his mind. He did not leave the Tory caucus for a position of power which I further discuss in more detail in reason number seven below.
Second As he has advocated and called for he sat as an Independent MP for four months before he crossed the floor to the Liberal Caucus.
Third As he said when he made his announcment and in Question Period today that he would stand in a By-election if the Prime Minister called one so he could be held accountable by the voters of Holton for the decision he made to join the Liberal team.
Fourth As he rightly states that if he stayed as an Independent in Pariliment he could not sit on any parlimenatry committee.
Fifth If Garth Turner were to resigen on his owen without the call of a by-election by the Prime Minister who knows how long the people of the riding in Halton would be without an MP in the house of Commons. I highly dought that the Prime Minister would call a by election for Garth Turner or other MP’s who have recently crossed the floor because of the implifications it would cause the Tory government both Good and Bad.
Sixth There will be a federal election within the next 6-8 months. Most minority governments last on average only 18 months and so the people of his riding will have their say soon enough on what they think of his choice.
Seventh He nethier accepted or expected a major posistion as an opposistion critic for crossing the floor to the Liberals unlike defections to the government or opposisition of recent memory Mr. Turner and Mr. Dion should be apluaded for this.
In closing I think Mr. Turner is smart, hard-working and is one of the best MP’s Canada has or has ever had. I also like him for his bluntness and to the point style. I would hope the people of Halton would look at his recored of service when they make their election decision. I hope they return him to Ottawa after the next election because of the reasons I have listed above. Just so you know I would have voted for Mr. Turner if I lived in his riding no matter what party he is or was a member of this includes that Tories even though I am very glad he has joined the Dion team. So, Welcome Mr. Turner and keep doing what you do so well, that is being the best MP for the people and riding of Halton and standing up for what you believe in.
…you just seem more and more pathetic every day…
Cam
“I also said the GPC platform was not developed enough at this time (in my view) for me to stand on in Halton. This stated with 100% certainly that I know more about this than you do. — Garth”
Well, Garth, I listen to the CFRA Lunch Bunch on CFRA, and Elizabeth May would have to disagree with you. She answered Lowell Green on all federal matters – Afghanistan, economic stuff, law and order, etc. So you may want to tell this to Elizabeth to her face!
BTW: maybe Elizabeth could have used you on refining their platform….
Hey, what do you think I have spent the last couple of months doing? I believe the Greens have a lot of potential, but the organization right now consists of a one-(very smart)-woman-band. — Garth
Garth may have his faults with being a born again Liberal and all that, but his Mom, Luix Rens, seems nice and it’s good of her to post here to support her battered son.
Dark blue tories should be kept in the dark.After all isn’t that what George Jr. Steve is doing not only with his caucas BUTT also with Canadians.Thanks for keeping the LIGHTS ON for us Garth.
Admittedly I am an independent and an advocate of independent government for Canada. It is the only hope for representation. The party system has degenerated into a very small group dictating to others how they will vote on a given issue. To think we pay MPs $147,000 plus perks to be like sheep, it is not a knock on MPs, it is a knock on voters. We are the fools! Does it matter what seat in the House of Commons Garth decides to sit in. It is Harper and Dion who will call the shots. Sure there might be one of two issues where there is a free vote and we are supposed to be impressed by that? They should all be free votes and that will only happen when we have independent MPs. So forget bashing Garth, anyone who belongs to a party all wear the same stripes! Vote for an independent candidate!
Reading another slag of Garth’s floor crossing in Robson’s column in the Ottawa Citizen this morning, it struck me that I know what the Conservative difference is.
It is to ignore any difference, and to keep hammering home the propaganda.
By the way, a point to ponder for neo-Cons who keep harping away on the “LIEberals” and their miscellaneous scandals We have one man, Karl-Heinz Schreiber, who has said that he gave Brian Mulroney $100,000 cash in an envelope on three separate occasions. So far, no one has come forward and claimed that he gave Chretien (or any other Liberal politician) a nickle for personal considerations.
Do you see the difference?
More one liners, still no answers. Still nothing but a two-bit class clown Garth, without the intelligence nor the bravery to promote an idea instead of a vanity.
Instead of quipping some Jon Stewart “O RLY” quotes in response to the obvious logical conclusions I have laid out, you dodge them with infantile “witticisms”.
At least you’re entertaining, if not responsible.
Name one other MP who has held two national tax policiy conferences in Ottawa in the last year, or written 900 articles, the vast majority policy-oriented, or opened up the federal political process as never before. I guess this is not “intelligent” or “brave” enough? Interesting. You must be one hell of a guy. — Garth
“By the way, a point to ponder for neo-Cons who keep harping away on the “LIEberals†and their miscellaneous scandals We have one man, Karl-Heinz Schreiber, who has said that he gave Brian Mulroney $100,000 cash in an envelope on three separate occasions.” –Herb.
I find it very, very interesting that the federal Liberals under Stephane Dion are keeping silent on this. I wonder why.
And don’t forget, PMSH joined the Reform Movement back in the late 1980’s and earlty 1990’s because he could not stomach some of PMBM’s policies in the by-gone era that you are talking about.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
by-e·lec·tion also bye-e·lec·tion: A special election held between general elections to fill a vacancy, as for a parliamentary seat.
Plain and simple, it says Garth is wrong to ask the PM to call a by-election while he still holds that seat, Garth must first RESIGN!
Garth refuses to do so while citing childish nonsense reasons for not doing so. All while grandstanding for the uneducated and ill informed.
Some of our worse criminal minds do as Garth does, they justify their wrongs constantly.
Garth in a past note on a post of mine advised me to never go into politics ..I never have and I never will, there are too many people without character like Garth in politics and I could not work with them.
People who voted Con the last election were doing so to ensure the Libs were no longer in power after they so blatantly stole from us the taxpayers. I doubt many who voted for Garth as a Con wanted him to ever be a Lib.
Garth showed he has no backbone when he became a Lib and now shows his imaturity as he attempts to justify this wrong move.
I now join the ranks of those who say the Libs will prob turf Garth in the future (or at least wish they couild). The only reason they may not would be to save face.
Jerry
Not everyone agress with you. You might find this opinion of interest – from Alberta, no less. “I’ll even give Garth credit: he said that if an MP switches to another party, they should resign and run again, and this is what he is proposing to do. Indeed, agreeing to run unconditionally would go further towards framing the PM as democratically deficient (a goal he seems firmly committed to), than to his politically motivated suggestion that he would only be inclined to follow his own ethical maxims if others did as well. As much as I’m skeptical of his motivations, this move is technically consistent, and Harper should oblige.” — Garth
Garth you made note on my post to:Not everyone agress with you. You might find this opinion of interest – from Alberta, no less. “I’ll even give Garth credit: he said that if an MP switches to another party, they should resign and run again, and this is what he is proposing to do. Indeed, agreeing to run unconditionally would go further towards framing the PM as democratically deficient (a goal he seems firmly committed to), than to his politically motivated suggestion that he would only be inclined to follow his own ethical maxims if others did as well. As much as I’m skeptical of his motivations, this move is technically consistent, and Harper should oblige.†— Garth
I have been reading posts of people who agree with you and it is because I think they are ill informed that I now posted the dictionary explaination of by-election (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
by-e·lec·tion also bye-e·lec·tion: A special election held between general elections to fill a vacancy, as for a parliamentary seat.)
Until your post is VACANT it is not up to Harper to call a by-election ‘period’. You have twisted the sense of the word by-election to excite the masses who do not understand.
You’ll only win this argument in your dreams, sorry.
Jerry
If you think I’ll resign without a commitment from PMSH to call a by-election immediately, you are dumber than you think I am. — Garth
If you think I’ll resign without a commitment from PMSH to call a by-election immediately, you are dumber than you think I am. — Garth
You are only asking him to call a by-election in the manner you are doing because you know it will excite the masses. Regardless of the right or wrong of it.
I think you were very wrong to go to the Libs and wrong on asking Harper to call a by-election, you should never have gone over to the Libs and to properly ask now of Harper to call a by-election is to simply resign and it will be done!
Worse part of all this is that you have me sticking up for the lying buffoon Harper. It is not his place to call a by-election for a seat that is not vacant. The simple fact being he will call a by-election when you vacate the seat. He as the PM is committed to calling by-elections for any vacated seats. Therefore no need for anyone to ask him to commit to calling one.
I think you should resign and I’d put my money on it the people would not re-elect you. I believe you have effectively ended your political career with this jump to the Libs. I think you are pounding more nails in your own coffin with ever response to me that you make.
You should have stayed Independant until the next elections (not even gone Green) were called.
Jerry
My last comment on this pointless conversation: Harper will not call a quick by-election in Halton even after I resign. He knows an election is coming in the next six months (because he will trigger one), so he’ll enjoy having an extra seat advantage in Parliament and my riding goes without representation. Like I said, dumb logic, pal. — Garth
My last comment on this pointless conversation: Harper will not call a quick by-election in Halton even after I resign. He knows an election is coming in the next six months (because he will trigger one), so he’ll enjoy having an extra seat advantage in Parliament and my riding goes without representation. Like I said, dumb logic, pal. — Garth
That is only your assumption, and you made it more possible with each day you delayed.
Jerry
I joined the Libs at 5 pm on Tuesday and asked Harper for a by-election Wednesday at 2:45 pm. — Garth
I joined the Libs at 5 pm on Tuesday and asked Harper for a by-election Wednesday at 2:45 pm. — Garth
You should never have needed asked him, you should never had gone over to the Libs. I would never have been asking you to resign if you had remained Independant.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, this is the biggest blunder of your political career, you’ll likely never recover from it.
Jerry
Not that I care about anything Garth says, but does anyone know if a PM has the constitutional power to call a by-election while a seat is occupied. I highly doubt it, but if that is the case then that is one scary, screwed up document.
“… does anyone know if a PM has the constitutional power to call a by-election while a seat is occupied.
No, He doesn’t. The Prime Minister doesn’t have the power to fire MPs which is what such a thing would amount to… Mr. Turner is just playing a game of rationalization which is not fooling anyone, not even the people who support him.
Drat, that darn Garth is still fooling poor, supporting me!
Well, actually, he isn’t. He did not ask Harper to do the technically impossible, i.e., call a by-election while there is a sitting MP for Halton.
What he did was ask PMSH for a commitment that he would call “a by-election to-day” if Garth resigned “to-day.” (MPtv 7 Feb webcast, QP segment.) And he did that specifically after PMSH refused to rise to the bait of having all three “floor crossers” face their voters in by-elections.
So the sticking point is Harper refusing to commit to an immediate by-election if Garth resigns. Where is Garth’s “game of rationalization” that Lawrence Garvin and others keep alleging?
Simple acid test: Harper rises in the House and declares that, should a vacancy occur in the Riding of Halton, he would call an immediate by-election. Then we’ll see if anyone is playing games.
Why do our new Conservatives have to make everything so complicated?
Hello Mr.Turner and all viewers of this site,
having first heard of Mr.Turner in October 2006 when he was kicked out of the Conservative Caucus for postings on his blogs, I was amazed at this stance as a Indie for four years. I can understand that for Mr.Turner to join the Liberals was a tough move because he considers himself a PC (although he claims and rightly so, that the progressive wing of the CPC died long ago.)
The tough thing about politics is that sometimes the popular thing to do is sometimes the wrong thing to do and sometimes the wrong thing to do is the popular thing to do. As previously noted, Mr. Turner didn’t call for a by-election while he was still holding his seat: he was asking for a commitment that PMSH would call by-elections for David Emerson, Khan, Fortier and Himself(and a good move at that: all floor-crossers should be treated equal, according to Mr.Turner) The only problem with this logic is what will happen if these three don’t give up their seats and Mr.Turner seats down and Mr.Harper breaks his promise:he had no problem doing so for appointing a unelected Senator (which by the way is constitutional because despite the media’s claims, any person who is a member of Parliament can become a Cabinet Minister: which includes both the Senate and the House of Commons,although a dumb political move)
When Mr.Turner said that Mr.Harper doesn’t allow debate within his Caucus, it made me wonder whether my Cons. MP for St.John’s South-Mt. Pearl lied to me, whether Mr.Turner is false or whether Mr.Hearn is simply an exception to the rule.
Last but not least, I believe Mr.Turner is aware that in politics, you can only please most people, most of the time and you can’t please all people, all the time….
As a Newfoundlander, I do believe that it’s time for Electoral Reform and such also. But for me, I think the NL First Party is the name of the game: they’re in the process of registering as a Federal Political Party and when registered, hope to run MPs in all 7 NL seats (and in the future, Ridings where there are huge concentrations of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians such as Ontario and Alberta).
Anyway, check it out at http://www.nlfirst.ca and feel free to check out my blog at http://www.jwlblogarama.blogspot.com
I say Good luck to Mr.Tucker and may he keep his Independent voice within the Liberal Party: if Mr.Dion tries to do to Mr.Turner what Stephen Harper did to Mr.Turner (kicking him out for posting confidential info. on his blog), then he can be an Indie again or go with the Greens.
In conclusion, had Mr.Turner never joined the Liberals, he would’ve missed a window of opportunity to help change the LPC from the inside: if it doesn’t work, he can go back to being an Indie or a Green MP
Best of wishes and I hope Mr.Turner keeps Loyola Hearn in check on the New Fisheries Act
– Jordan L
correction, I meant to stay “stood as an Indie for four months, not years” (oops!)
Herb asks Where is Garth’s “game of rationalization†that Lawrence Garvin and others keep alleging?
Since you asked, let me run it down for you again…
Mr. Turner has been pontificating about the horrors of floor crossing since very shortly after the current government took office. He’s written numerous complaints here on his blog and he’s gone so far as to try to introduce a private member’s bill in the House of Commons that would compel floor-crossers to resign their seats and get the blessing of the electorate before sitting in another caucus. You can search as you like through all of his previous writings and pronouncements and you’ll never once see any conditions or qualifications on that basic principle from Mr. Turner. It’s a core principle you might say; a moral imperative; his cause celebré; an article of faith that he’s been preaching – unvarnished – for just about a year now.
Now all of a sudden – apropos of nothing – Mr. Turner comes up with a subordinate clause that changes the meaning of his iron-clad principle by 180 degrees. No longer is it a matter of democracy, personal honour, keeping faith with constituents and upholding the highest principles; it’s all contingent on someone else?.
Excuse me for saying so; but that’s pretty flipping bizarre!
You don’t make someone else responsible for holding you to your own principles. That’s a contradiction in terms and a butchery of logic.
I won’t resign because Harper won’t promise to call a quick by-election. I hope you go to his blog and slag him, too. Next. — Garth
I won’t resign because Harper won’t promise to call a quick by-election.
That’s not a reason, it’s an excuse. If I spent close to a year campaigning on a particular issue and the single honourable approach to that issue, as you have done, then I’d be a bloody hypocrite to balk at the last minute and announce that everything I’d said previously was contingent on someone else doing something first. You either stand by your own words – spoken forcefully and often – or you do not. You sir, do not.
I hope you go to his blog and slag him, too.
Mr. Harper doesn’t have a blog, as you know. I have not “slagged” you Mr. Turner; but I certainly do “slag” your actions and your lame excuses for them.
Ain’t quitting my seat to have Harper laugh and call no vote. Who wins then? What high principle is served? I’ll stay on and fight for my vision of Canada. — Garth
Lawrence,
we keep on going over the same ground on this blog, again and again.
What party did Garth Turner leave to cross the floor to join the Liberals? What caucus was he sitting in, etc., etc.?
He was ejected by the CPC (PM and PMO – forget the provincial caucus fig leaf)for reasons best known to themselves. He was not ejected from Parliament, so he continued to sit as an independant, as a political “free agent,” and then, having had four months to consider and look around, he joined another party and caucus.
So where are the usual earmarks of floor-crossing in Garth Turner’s case? Where is the surprise desertion followed by political reward?
What, in his past comments on floor-crossing, applies here?
If the voters of Halton are deprived of representation by a CPC Member of Parliament, it was not Garth’s initiative or doing. If Conservatives nevertheless want to make an issue out of it, Harper can take Turner up on his offer and give the riding the chance to vote on it.
I do get tired of the CPC treating politics – and blogs – as a fact-free propaganda zone.
Ain’t quitting my seat to have Harper laugh and call no vote
He has to call a vote, that’s the law. What you mean is he won’t promise to give you a fast track by-election which would shortchange anyone else interested in running in that riding. There is no legal or moral basis for Mr. Harper making such a promise to you. It’s not a rational or a practical request, it’s a dodge on your part. Everyone knows this… even you.
“I’ll stay on and fight for my vision of Canada.”
You’re fighting for yourself, Mr. Turner. Your “visions” and your values are worth nothing if they depend on someone else for their implementation. You had a chance to display personal integrity, you traded it for a photo-op and a pat on the back.
Hey, Lawrence, cork it. — Garth
I’ve seen a lot of old schoool Tory rehtoric, blasting Garth for this or taking him to task for that. Politics in the end is a tough line to walk espcially if you are a man of conscience. Here is a quick test of Garth’s integrity. The fact that he allows himself to be slagged by you people on his blog sugggests to me that he is willing to sit in the hot seat and take the punches. How many Tory’s have open access blogs? Just curious. Sometimes I find that people who are policically affilated can not see the disease for the trees. Harper has come up way short on just about every crucial issue; income trusts, environment, senate, equalization just to name a few. Harper and his stooges are a blight on Canadian politics and need to be removed before he can put us so deep down the well that only God can find us. It’s easy to give tax cuts but the game gets harder when you find that the policies on which you were elected no longer hold water.
Good on you Garth for standing up to Harper’s BS! I don’t care if you sit with the Liberals, the Greens, or the NDP – at least I know that there will be one man amongst the cawing crows.
I do get tired of the CPC treating politics – and blogs – as a fact-free propaganda zone.
I’m not the CPC. You haven’t even challenged a single statement I’ve made so it’s a little much for you to accuse me of “fact-free propaganda”.
I’ll show you the courtesy that you neglected to show me…
“What party did Garth Turner leave to cross the floor to join the Liberals?”
The Conservative Party. He played around with the idea of crossing to the Green Party but he ultimately rejected that option in favour of the Liberals.
What, in his past comments on floor-crossing, applies here?
All of it. That’s the whole point. There are a lot of different opinions on floor-crossing but it is Turner’s opinion on floor-crossing that ought to determine his actions. Not mine, not yours, not Stephen Harpers. And it’s Turner’s promises (both stated and implied) that need to be upheld. Garth Turner might as well demand a promise from me, or you – or Pamela Anderson -as demand a promise from Stephen Harper. The disconnect between his words and his actions is completely self-contained. He’s trying to muddy the waters by dragging Harper into a situation that does not involve him (or probably even interest him very much.)
It’s Turner that represented floor-crossing as the ultimate test of political character, and it’s Turner that’s failing his own test.
Hey, Lawrence, cork it.
Ban me if you like. You’ve invited comments and I took up your invitation. You can withdraw the invitation if you like.
Hello, Lawrence, anybody home?
Are suffering from cognitive dissonance or just denying reality for propaganda purposes?
Again, and again, and for the last time: Garth did not leave the CPC to cross the floor to the Liberals. The CPC ejected him from caucus and officially denied him any future nomination as a member of their party.
If you cannot hoist in that much documented fact, this conversation is over.
Garth said to Lawrence Garvin on 02.09.07 8:18 pm:Ain’t quitting my seat to have Harper laugh and call no vote. Who wins then? What high principle is served? I’ll stay on and fight for my vision of Canada. — Garth
I would not ask you to quit your seat, I’m upset you took it Liberal, you just should have stayed Independant. All you had to do was wait to go Lib until an election was called to avoid the risk that Harper would not call a by-election (which is only an assumption on your part). At that time you’d have your wish and have the voters decide. There was a better chance he WOULD call a by-election to not cause his party a lower standing in the polls by not calling one.
You remind me of liars and cheats, they think we all lie and cheat. So if you were in Harper’s position you would dodge calling a by-election? Therefore you are sure he would?
You sure have shown us you flip flop. As long as you flip flop, you leave it wide open for us to pick you apart. Show character and at least admit you did wrong.
BTW, no blog on the news “Dion may bar some male candidates”. I would have loved to debate the female view of doing ‘political battle on equal footing’. Dion holding you back from such a blog? I think politics would probably be better with more females but I also think females would be insulted to not be allowed to run on equal footing against males for those ridings. AHEM.
Jerry
Hey, Lawrence, cork it. — Garth
Said by Garth to Lawrence Garvin on 02.09.07 10:01 pm
Ho hum.
Told you before Garth, you’ll only win this argument in your dreams. Lawrence Garvin makes more sense than you do.
Jerry
That’s the problem, Jerry. You neo-cons are merely arguing. You’re not discussing facts.
Herb said “If you cannot hoist in that much documented fact, this conversation is over.
I think it’s over, regardless. I’d just point out that your justification is not the same as Mr. Turner’s justification. While I think both justifications are weak, I’ll address Mr. Turner’s only. I think it would be a little rude to do otherwise.
That’s the problem, Jerry. You neo-cons are merely arguing. You’re not discussing facts.
By Herb on 02.10.07 10:19 am
I’ve discussed facts Herb ..I challenge you to open a dictionary to the word by-election.
The fact is simple, if Garth was so sure Harper might not call a by-election, he should have stayed pat at being an independant until an election was called.
I am not a neo-con, but you are an ignorant fool to suggest I am.
Jerry