Another day, un autre sondage

mptvsmall16.jpg The last in MPtv’s post-election series today, as we bring you more expert analysis on what the heck that surprise result meant in Quebec on Monday night. The question in the House of Commons once again today was the timing of the federal election, in the wake of yet another poll (one a day now), showing the Tories trumping the Liberals by ten points.

folco.jpg So, how much does Mario Dumont’s triumph further PMSH’s plans, if at all? We hear from Laval-area MP Raymonde Folco on this topic, and also on her area of expertise, federal immigration policy.

To view the video, click ici.

69 comments ↓

#1 Barcs on 03.28.07 at 6:41 pm

Don’t suppose we could wait to hear about the evil conservative plan to turn democracy on its head and hurl the country into an election….lmao

say maybe until it happens?

I have heard about it daily for several months now about speculation on how Harper is going to engineer his defeat. It hasn’t happened. It might happen.

Why don’t the parties in the house do something constructive until it does happen? I am tired of hearing about how democracy will be usurped by the evil Harperites any day now.

Is this what we are paying our MP’s for? IT doesn’t appear that any of them are doing anything more than electioneering.

#2 Get A Rope on 03.28.07 at 7:28 pm

Garth,

Sry even though I`m Quebecer back to the settling of Montreal I don`t speak french so I`ll take this opportunity say you`ve more courage than the average politician. Looking past your obvious spins using Libspeak, letting anyone and everyone blog here speaks loudly of that courage.

It`s a real shame most bloggers are full of partisan venom that adds nothing to several down to earth threads you`ve had. Well so be it if they like reading their own words as proof they have something important to say, who am I to judge.
I have learned over many years of blogging to stick to the facts and suffer personal attacks because to me it`s not a challenge to see who can drive off the opponent, it`s the sharing of information via the net. It`s an opportunity to let nobodies like myself at least feel like we`re making a difference.

Merci

#3 Geoffrey L. on 03.28.07 at 8:48 pm

There is a great story on CBC News also, likely 6 PM across the country. It merges the NFLD & Trusts story into one, all about promises broken, today’s 2 ads. Brent Fullard was interviewed. Yikes !

#4 kaniz on 03.28.07 at 9:46 pm

I laud the premeir of Nfld and Labrador for the awareness that Harper does not keep his promise. All Mr. harper is trying to do is to buy votes in quebec. I hope quebecers understand that and vote against his party.

#5 Catherine on 03.28.07 at 10:04 pm

Kaniz, Danny Williams loves grand standing. Remember when he took the Canadian flag down, when he didn’t get his way with Paul Martin?

He wants to rake in the oil revenues, like Alberta, at the same time be considered a have-not province and receive the equalization payments! As well, remember NFLD & Labrador will still get their per capita transfer payments like the other provinces.

Absolutely no credibility with Williams. He should make up his mind up! Is his province like Alberta or is his province a have-not!

#6 smitty on 03.28.07 at 10:09 pm

Quebecers understand that if they vote for him,he will give them more money and autonomy.
What Canadians don’t understand is that 80% of Quebecers have no emotional attachment to Canada.But as long as they have the knife to the throat,or at least show the knife in their belt,the money will come.
Ironically,the Quebecers that have an emotional attachment to Canada are some of the most fervant Canadians.

#7 Geekwad on 03.28.07 at 10:14 pm

Congrats on your first (?) French episode of MPtv. It was cute how you said, “‘arper,” but your interview subject had little difficulty rendering the the English pronunciation. I also enjoy dropping my haiches whenever I have the excuse.

#8 Marg on 03.28.07 at 10:17 pm

Catherine,

You DO realize that NL has been the poorest province in Canada like forever, don’t you? Imagine not having money to properly develop infastructure for close to 60 years.

Finally the 2005 accord gives them some extra cash to try to catch up–then they are beat down again. It is no where close to the Alberta situation.

Atlantic Canadians are a hard-working lot, and given the opportunities, they can make their area prosperous as well–but not if they keep being given the shaft from Ottawa.

Go Danny go. I love it.

#9 carmen breton on 03.28.07 at 10:21 pm

Hello Garth,
Is there a link french or english whereby I could read Raymonde Folco.I’m on dial-up and can’t view the video.
Thank you

#10 carmen breton on 03.28.07 at 10:35 pm

Hello Garth.
I have found the link on my own,Thank you,CarmenBreton

#11 Herb on 03.28.07 at 10:42 pm

All right, Garth, I want it fresh from the horse’s mouth – get Duceppe to tell us in an MPtv interview what the Quebec election result means.

He just might do it, if asked.

#12 KPK on 03.28.07 at 10:45 pm

Williams is an ass. All he is doing is HELPING Harper. Now if Harper says he will deduct the cost of Danny’s ad campaign from Newfoundland’s equalization payments, I would garner more respect for him.

#13 KPK on 03.28.07 at 10:51 pm

Actually Harper DIDN’T break his promise. He is just giving Danny a CHOICE. Keep the Atlantic Accord or switch to the new formula. It’s fair. Danny wants to have his cake and eat it to. Harper is NO Paul Martin. If Danny pisses him off there will be a reckoning and Harper won’t hide in a corner like a dog with his tail between his legs.

#14 Paul MacPhail on 03.28.07 at 11:04 pm

I’d have to agree with Catherine. Coming from a have not province, where our major industries are farming, fishing, tourism and aerospace; it would be akin to us not wanting to include potato or fish exports in our provincial revenues. Just ask any fisherpersons (that’s what we call them now, political correctness!) how renewable the fishery has been lately.

#15 Tobias Kaiser on 03.28.07 at 11:13 pm

unfortunately I don’t speak French… could someone (i.e. Garth) post a translation to this video, so all the French-illiterate will know what this lady had to say?

#16 Jackie Chan's Left Hand on 03.29.07 at 12:48 am

Oh,Garth don’t you start believing the pollsters BS.
“In the wake of yet another poll (one a day now), showing the Tories trumping the Liberals by ten points.”
Pure fantasy my boy .Wait for the SES national and regional results you will see a vastly different picture.Guaranteed .
A stupid Leger poll I read today said the neo-cons had a 14 ,point advantage which is impossible mathematically as there are 4, parties to contend with .
A ton of the Green support are disaffected neos .
Once the actual election gets under way the polls will tighten considerably .
Mr.Dion is still gtting his feet wet as the new leader.
Don’t despair .
Keep ‘yer chin up mate .
Rage,
rage
against the
lying of the right

#17 Catherine on 03.29.07 at 5:40 am

Marg, I want to see NFLD & Labrador as a properous province. However, Danny Williams needs to be realistic. His provinces per capita transfer payments increased and he still benefits from oil revenues (atlantic accord). Now, is it fair for Alberta to have its 50% of its oil revenues counted in its calculation?

#18 Marg on 03.29.07 at 6:40 am

KPK,

Actually, Harper DID break his promise.

He put a cap on the amount of resource benefits, so the old deal is not an option.

NS just accepted the new formula because they were FORCED to. If they hadn’t done that, they would have had to greatly increase taxes in the short run with no guarantee of oil revenues in the future. The old “stuck between a rock and a hard place” scenario.

Guess Harper wants to keep the Atlantic region in the ghetto. Then he has the gall to say the Maritimes have a “culture of defeat.”

I’m in NB so this doesn’t affect us much, but this whole discrimination against the Atlantic area just has to stop. I have never seen a Govt. as divisive for the country as this one.

And for those of you who feel that Atlantic Canada shouldn’t have this chance to get ahead, just realize that this region has been poorer than the rest of the country for decades, our infastructure has suffered, and there is a lot of catching up to be done. It’s like in assessing one’s financial situation, it is just not the income and expenses that are involved, but also the assets and liabilities.

#19 C. B. Innes on 03.29.07 at 7:50 am

I certain respect what Danny Williams is doing. The neo-cons believe that anyone who has less than they do should be punished. They must be kept down and never allowed to proper. They ignore the facts. It was just fine for Alberta to get a similar deal while their oil industry was developing so they could have some “catch up” time.

They are so committed to right wing theories that they never let the facts and realities get in their way.

#20 KPK on 03.29.07 at 8:01 am

Garth,

Are we going to see the Dion “attack” ads make a reappearance in Quebec now that the election is over?

#21 C. B. Innes on 03.29.07 at 8:54 am

Please replace “proper” with “prosper” when reading post By C. B. Innes on 03.29.07 7:50 am

#22 KPK on 03.29.07 at 9:19 am

Marg,

Not sure that is right. My understanding is that there is an option to stay in the Atlantic Accord with NO caps. The other option is the O’Brien formula with 50/50 split in resource revenues. The problem is that governments have one year until they have to make a choice.

From CP: READ THE FIRST LINE
“Even though those measures won’t necessarily affect Newfoundland under the Atlantic Accord, which protects the province against clawbacks until at least 2012, Williams has been incensed, calling the budget “a betrayal” to his province.”

#23 KPK on 03.29.07 at 9:22 am

As the budget brought down Monday shows, the prime minister not only found a way to keep his promise to exclude non-renewable natural resources from the national equalization formula, he found a way to limit the payout to Saskatchewan.

The province has a choice. It can either have the full value of its natural resources excluded from the national equalization formula or it can have half of their value excluded, as recommended by a federal report recently made on the issue.
Harper fudges on promise
Randy Burton, The StarPhoenix
Published: Tuesday, March 20, 2007

As the budget brought down Monday shows, the prime minister not only found a way to KEEP his promise to exclude non-renewable natural resources from the national equalization formula, he found a way to limit the payout to Saskatchewan.

The province has a choice. It can either have the full value of its natural resources excluded from the national equalization formula or it can have half of their value excluded, as recommended by a federal report recently made on the issue.

#24 KPK on 03.29.07 at 9:30 am

Harper FUDGES Promise – whole article

http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/columnists/story.html?id=472eb5d1-c66d-4cac-9314-b788e3b13b6e

#25 Andrea on 03.29.07 at 9:37 am

Garth – Why do you edit your blog so much? You only allow comments that you approve, or you feel are harmless, go on your blog. I thought blogs were a place wherer people could vent their feelings about you and other Liberals. Is this editing just a way for you to feel better about yourself or are you trying to manufacture a positive view of yourself?

You have not been paying attention. The only posts which don’t make it to air are those which add zero to the conversation, are purely attack in nature, contain offensive language or are intended to destroy the host. You got a problem with that? — Garth

#26 KPK on 03.29.07 at 9:57 am

From Canada.com:

The federal budget allows provinces to choose between an equalization formula that excludes half or all resource revenues. But it also imposes a cap on the fiscal capacity that provinces can attain. Newfoundland argues this leaves the province worse off than if resource revenues were fully excluded.

But Harper’s deputies noted Wednesday that the province could also CHOOSE a third option of sticking to the Atlantic Accord, which excludes offshore oil and gas revenues from the equalization until 2012.

“The bottom line is we are doing better today than we did before, we are getting more money today then we did before,” said Loyola Hearn, the regional minister for Newfoundland and Labrador.”

Again Danny is “full” of it. He wants his cake and eat it to. Harper KEPT his promise. Danny will get very little sympathy from Ontario or Quebec.

#27 Jackie Chan's Left Hand on 03.29.07 at 10:13 am

Harpo crying that Danny Williams is being abusive .
Live with it ‘ya creep .
What goes around comes around and it’s coming around for Harpo .
Liars and cheats will always lose .

#28 kitkat on 03.29.07 at 10:32 am

Sometimes there can be a quite significant time delay between when you post on this Blog and when the post actually shows up. I’ve seen delays of an hour or more depending on how busy Garth is with other matters.

He reviews each of the posts before releasing them to the Blog database.
Most of the time, but not always, the post shows up immediately on your own screen but it is not available for viewing by anyone else.

Posters complaining about censorship on this Blog are doing so because they do not understand this matter of delay.

#29 Jackie Chan's Left Hand on 03.29.07 at 10:32 am

Danny Williams has every right to take Harpo to task over the equalization formula .
Harpo lied through his teeth saying that resources would not be calculated and clawed back .
Newfoundland/Labrador have been have not Provinces for far too long .
This is their opportunity to be financially equal (in theory) to Ontario and Quebec .
I suppose it is all right for Harpo to hand billions of dollars of tax payers money to Quebec to buy votes ?
I urge everyone who despises Harpo and those who are sick of his lies to support Danny.
Premier@gov.nl.ca
We have got to stick together .
Tell Danny what you think

#30 Fred on 03.29.07 at 10:43 am

You have not been paying attention. The only posts which don’t make it to air are those which add zero to the conversation, are purely attack in nature, contain offensive language or are intended to destroy the host. You got a problem with that? — Garth

Garth;

I’ve been reading your blog for several months now. I find it very informative. You are also my MP, so I appreciate all the information on Halton.

However, I don’t appreicate many of the comments made by JACKIE CHAN’S LEFT HAND (i.e. stupid, moron etc.). I find them very abusive.

Why do you allow this?

#31 KPK on 03.29.07 at 11:03 am

I agree with Fred. Ban Jackie and let intelligent discourse take place.

#32 KPK on 03.29.07 at 11:05 am

Jackie has now made me a committed Conservative voter UNLESS Harper’s green plan turns out to be really bad. Thanks Jackie for helping me make up my mind.

#33 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 11:06 am

Well, the entire NL Cap issue seems to me to be the result of more Voodoo Economics…which Ottawa, and more particularly, Flaherty excell at.

No wonder Microslop named their spreadsheet ‘Excel’. LOL

So, anyone tried the latest OS from MS…the Saskatchewan Operating System…’Vista’!

#34 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 11:10 am

Garth,

So, what joyful expressions of denial are on the agenda for today’s QP?

Yesterday was like listening to questions asked in plain English and responded to by Harpo, and his minions, in some foreign language, indiscernable to sentitent human beings. I think it was Egyptian, a lost dialect called ‘Denial’?

#35 smitty on 03.29.07 at 11:18 am

Agree with Fred and KPK.Under the standards of Garth’s reply to Andrea,Jackie Chan should be wallowing in cyberspace.

#36 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 11:27 am

The difference between Harper and Bush regarding lieing is that we can at least understand what Harper says…therefore, removing most doubt he is lieing. Simply observation.

#37 Jackie Chan's Left Hand on 03.29.07 at 11:29 am

Jackie has now made me a committed Conservative voter UNLESS Harper’s green plan turns out to be really bad. Thanks Jackie for helping me make up my mind.

By KPK on 03.29.07 11:05 am

You don’t think Garth hasn’t read your highly partisan ( neo con) drivel and rhetoric from day one .
Suggest you beat it over to Bloggingtories.com and stay there .
You won’t be missed .

#38 Jackie Chan's Left Hand on 03.29.07 at 11:32 am

Jackie has now made me a committed Conservative voter UNLESS Harper’s green plan turns out to be really bad. Thanks Jackie for helping me make up my mind.

By KPK on 03.29.07 11:05 am

You are an ass .You don’t think Garth hasn’t read your highly partisan ( neo con) drivel and rhetoric from day one .
Suggest you beat it over to Bloggingtories.com and stay there .
You won’t be missed ya’ goof .

#39 Sean P. Hogan on 03.29.07 at 11:42 am

Garth, I thought you said you have an expert. Turns out, its just another partisan commentary.

#40 Fred on 03.29.07 at 11:45 am

All;

I’m not necessarily talking about banning JACKIE CHAN’S LEFT HAND.

However, I personally find his comments overly aggressive (i.e. bossy), insulting and abusive.

My question is this:
Why would Garth allow this? Why hasn’t Garth said anything to him? Why hasn’t JCLH been warned?

With some much great information on this blog, it’s a shame that this is taking place.

#41 Captain George on 03.29.07 at 12:06 pm

Seniors Unite!

Dion said a Liberal government will put money back in the pockets of Canadians who lost it thanks to the Tories policy reversal on Income Trusts!
Go Dion! Go Garth!
I can’t wait until a PC Harperdroid knocks on my door for his vote. I will Promise not to vote for him!

#42 smitty on 03.29.07 at 12:24 pm

Captain-before you get too excited about money going back to people who lost out on the Income Trust fiasco,you need to figure out how that money would get to people who held their nose,took their loss and moved on.
You can’t put an appendix back into the body and there’s no practical way to compensate all who were sitting on Income Trust holdings on Oct 31st.
It would be nice cause I took a hit as well,but Daddy told me long ago that there’s no Santa Clause.

#43 Captain George on 03.29.07 at 12:42 pm

Smitty,

To those Seniors that did not sell their Income Trusts and held for the superior cashflow, a reduced tax to 10% and a 10 year plan would satisfy most people that rode through the BROKEN PROMISE era of the PC’s and that is a fact.

#44 Leasa on 03.29.07 at 1:54 pm

Seniors Unite!

Dion said a Liberal government will put money back in the pockets of Canadians who lost it thanks to the Tories policy reversal on Income Trusts!
Go Dion! Go Garth!
I can’t wait until a PC Harperdroid knocks on my door for his vote. I will Promise not to vote for him!

By Captain George on 03.29.07 12:06 pm

Yeah, George, it will be on page 4 of the new Red Book, right after the GST and before Free Trade. Guess you weren’t listening a few months ago when McCallum said the Liberals will also tax Income Trusts. When has a Liberal government ever put money ‘back in your hands?’. Well, George, give me a call, I have some beautiful swamp land for sale. L

#45 smitty on 03.29.07 at 2:07 pm

I see.So Captain-the folks that considered Flaherty’s announcement and subsequent ratifcation by parliament as the law of the land and then sold off all their Income Trusts for other assets will be penalized for not holding on and whining?And what about those who bought after in a down market?Would they get this windfall although they were not holders as at Oct 31st? Or would we create two classes of Income Trusts to distinguish the old guard and the new guard?
You can’t pick and choose which victims you’ll help.And you can’t “backdate” that help.
You guys have to stop carrying the baggage and picking the scab of this old wound.
It’s done,it was wrong to do,punish them next election and move on.It’s like the goofs who waited for Chretien and Martin to roll back the GST that was in their little red book of election promises of 1993.

#46 DMZ on 03.29.07 at 2:28 pm

You have not been paying attention. The only posts which don’t make it to air are those which add zero to the conversation, are purely attack in nature, contain offensive language or are intended to destroy the host. You got a problem with that? — Garth

and then

You are an ass .You don’t think Garth hasn’t read your highly partisan ( neo con) drivel and rhetoric from day one .
Suggest you beat it over to Bloggingtories.com and stay there .
You won’t be missed ya’ goof .

By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 03.29.07 11:32 am

So how in the hell did this (and I’d venture to guess 50% of JCLH’s posts this week were direct derogatory remarks and name-calling) manage to pass through? I’d say it fails on all counts.

Since you’ve admitted that you do filter posts, please use the criteria you yourself have provided and be consistent.

Noted. Will be done. — Garth

#47 KPK on 03.29.07 at 2:32 pm

Captain George on ,

Ah it’s the old say anything to get elected trick. How is Dion going to keep his promise of lowering the tax to 10% when that will clearly put the country into deficit?

#48 KPK on 03.29.07 at 2:39 pm

Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on,
BTW
If you are his left hand then what is his right hand doing? Or is it too personal?
:)

#49 Captain George on 03.29.07 at 3:11 pm

Leasa,

So you are trying to tell me a 10% corporate tax as proposed by the Libs is not better than 31% proposed by the PC’s? Do you not think share prices would recover by not having a 31% tax rate starting in 2011? McCallum knows what he is talking about and so does Garth. I don’t buy your viewpoint at all.

#50 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 3:11 pm

BCE! KKR! Those are two of the critical questions du jour! When will the ‘new’ government of Canada act to protect Canada’s largest corporation from the barbarians at the Gate? When will they get it done?

And Bill C-16 regarding fixed election dates. When will they it done?

Regarding the other bills waiting on the ‘new’ government of Canada. When will they get it done?

I must say, that so far, QP has actually has a semblance of productivity, waiting on the ‘new’ governbment of Canada to stop talking and start acting on bills that are ready to be passed and obtain Royal Ascent. When will they get it done?

That is the question du jour!

#51 smitty on 03.29.07 at 4:14 pm

Bill—KKR can only hold 46% of BCE-they have to find a few Canadian Pension Funds that want to hold the rest,if they can.
Shareholders of BCE had the first happy day in about 5 years!

#52 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 4:26 pm

Smitty,

I understand that. I also understand how even such a huge minority ownership can extract control of OUR Bell system.

Do not be fooled by less than 51% ownership. Other companies can be bought, and then they gain majority control, even indirectly. Old game…same stench!

Like I have said many times, Canada will be taken over by lawyers, not armies. That is the modern warfare method.

I am a major Bell customer…What about my interests? What about Canadian’s interest? It is not just the stockholders who have an interest in this issue.

#53 smitty on 03.29.07 at 4:52 pm

Bill-this is a commercial deal.You have no interests.Your choice is to go to another supplier.
If BCE was not so shitty a Company with no stock appreciation for years,employees that think they should be paid for having a pulse,KKR would have no interest in them.
When you look at where both Telus and Rogers have come from in the last 5-10 years,if BCE was as successful,the stock would be worth about $100 to $150 right now.
Videotron kills them in Quebec,Rogers in Ontario and Telus and Shaw in the West.
KKR and associates can kill the bad management,create competitive products and eventually sell off and make a killing.They don’t want to operate a Telcom,they see value that’s not reflected in the share price.They did that with Shoppers Drug and did a bang up job.
If Canada goes shopping in the U.S.,we can’t tell U.S. companies to go somewhere else.Unless we want to be Xenophobes.

#54 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 5:43 pm

Smitty,

Understand, I do not give a flyin F— about the shareholders. I care about my quality of service and it has been darn good. Telus does a good job as well. Rogers? Forget it!

I am a consumer and I want my money to bring me quality service. I do not believe in all this pure crap about the shareholders are the most important…NO! The customers are the most important. Therein is the crux of our modern problems….protect the damn shareholders and the Hell with the customers who actually pay the bills.

I do not want Americans running Canada….EVER!!!!!

KKR is the company they made the movie ‘Barabarians At The Gates’ about…Did you know that? They know nothing about telecoms, could care less, will not care less, and are only interested in their own profits. Wake up!

Yes, they will make a bundle when the sell BCE off to another glommer…where does that money come from? POCKET! No Thanks mon ami!

#55 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 5:49 pm

Smoitty,

“If Canada goes shopping in the U.S.,we can’t tell U.S. companies to go somewhere else. Unless we want to be Xenophobes.”

Oh yeah? try buying any company that is deemed part of their National Security interests? Watch what xenophobia is really like.

#56 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 5:50 pm

Smitty,

Oops…sorry about your handle…double keyed it!

#57 KH on 03.29.07 at 6:26 pm

Marg, And the Atlantic Accord is good to 2012 and can be extended till 2020 just by NFLD saying so, same with NS. That raises my question with Mr. William’s problem, what is the problem, he has exactly what he asked for, I think what he never reckoned for was the fact the the equalization’s formula would be changed to increase the payout to the provinces. If and just for argument safe Mr. Harper had done nothing with equalization then nothing would change, as I see it and you may correct me if I am wrong, NFLD see more money coming in the new plan then the old, but because of the Atlantic Accord they cannot benefit from it. If any province got screwed here is was Sask, they did not have an accord to protect their royalities

#58 smitty on 03.29.07 at 6:43 pm

been called worse,Bill!!!!!

#59 smitty on 03.29.07 at 6:55 pm

Lots of emotion,Bill-but no logic.The shareholder is King.Ask the people who were holding Nortel in 2000.Ask the people who are holding Income Trusts.
Ask the people drawing Pensions if they are interested in the Fund’s holdings doing well.Ask the same question to those holding Mutual Funds inside or outside of an RSP.

However the key to that profitability is satisfied customers along with a profitable product,which BCE does not have and is losing Market share.

I don’t see BCE as a National Security asset so that point isn’t valid.It might be if they were the only Telcom in town,but they aren’t.

#60 Ed the Hun on 03.29.07 at 7:41 pm

Bill,

Unless we are living in a communist country, shareholders are king for a publicly traded company.

BCE is pubicly traded. Now you wouldn’t want to screw over all of those seniors who now have a chance to sell their holdings would you? Think about their retirement savings.

Geez.

The nice thing about living in a democracy, under a capitalist system is as a consumer if you don’t like someone’s service, then switch. As well, if you don’t like what a corporation is doing in its board rooms, you can still switch companies.

BCE (nor Bell) are ‘national security’ interests. They are in the field of telecommunications as far as I know.

Ed the Hun

#61 Marg on 03.29.07 at 8:34 pm

KH–Re the Atlantic Accord,

I quote these words from Jim Flaherty spoken today in Charlottetown as posted on CBC website. This refers to NS taking the new deal so they could be guaranteed of new funds now under the new equalization formula.

“What we did, is agree they could come into the new equalization formula, which helped them balance their budget last Friday, and if upon reflection over the next year they decide they’d rather go back to the Atlantic Accord they can do that as well. It gives more breathing space to the government of Nova Scotia,” he said.

In order to get these funds, they have to renounce the Atlantic Accord. It is a gamble–it could be short-term gain for long-term pain. NS is unlikely to gain as much under the Atlantic Accord as NL as their reserves are greater and are being more quickly developed, so the decision was easier for NS than for NL.

It would be impossible for either province to know within one year which plan is better long term. Harper and Flaherty are playing political games, saying those prov.’s have a choice, when in fact, it is a case of dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t.

The CBC news report is here
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Atlantic/070329/t03299A.html

#62 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 9:01 pm

Smitty and Ed,

“The shareholder is King”

No, there are few Kings amongst them…Ask the people who invested in NorTel, GM, Ford, Bre-X, EnRon, WorldCom, etc. They are merely gamblers, and when the House wins they lose…some King, eh?

As to Bell being a National Security asset, I referred to U.S. based NSA’s, but in reality, ask CSIS, the RCMP, etc. who owns and built the backbone infrastructure of Norther American communications? It was AT&T and Bell, and they lease out their bandwidth to others for the most part. The cable companies are not even in the same game. There cables are stung on hydro poles, and in some jurisdictions they are having to pay rent for th use of the poles.

Satellites? Ah, TelSat Canada, and others provide those facilities, also held in majority by BCE Telecom.

You may recall the importance of C^3I from the Desert Storm era? Still true…still an NSA, and without it…everything comes to a halt.

This is not about cell phones, Blackberries, and chatlines, it is about communications, the backbone of Command and Control, and National Security. Ask the banking industry if the National Security is as stake with communications?

But then I am all wrong because the stockholder is KING )in your world of raw capitalism)! So be it! Watch what happens in the deal!

#63 smitty on 03.29.07 at 9:50 pm

You’re babbling Bill.The idea that an Investor gets a good return is not raw capitalism-it’s prudent investing.And without people willing to invest we’d all be hewers of wood and drawers of water.
Do you think pension Funds payout retirement benefits from just contributions? It is the appreciation of invested assets and their dividends that pays the bills.

And that’s why the Investor is King.

A deal like this would probably have to be approved by the CRTC so if there are National Security concerns,then the deal might be nixed OR parts of the Company would have to be spun off to avoid the conflict.

#64 KH on 03.29.07 at 10:31 pm

Marg, Damned if you do or damned if you don’t is still a choice. Is also a down homer, and I think that our provinces have more then enough capable and intelligent people to figure out which program is best for each province. I hold to my point concerning Sask that they got screwed. I also hold to my point that Mr. Williams got what he asked for, the Atlantic Accord, Mr. Harper despite as some say when you read the details, didn’t break his promise, the deal basically says, here you go, two options, you keep the Atlantic accord, or you can sign on with the new deal an keep 50% or your oil revenues but get bigger equalization payments. your choice, Sorry, the way I see this is we pay good money to people in govt to see which plan benefits us the most over the long term, we pick that one and be done with it.

#65 Bill-Muskoka on 03.29.07 at 11:23 pm

Smitty,

You’re babbling the mantra…Babble on.

I know better from experience and a thing called reality.

At least you recognise the reality of NSA’s.

#66 Marg on 03.29.07 at 11:26 pm

KH,

I do not disagree that Sask got screwed. I think a LOT more thought has to go into equalization formulas, a LOT more considerations than just revenues have to be taken into account. Like–assets and liabilities. Because some provinces have fewer natural resources, are we just to say–too bad, you lose? Is that the kind of Canada we want?

How about Manitoba? How did they fare? I know NB certainly did not get the sweet deal that Quebec did, but we only have 10 seats in parliament.

This CPC govt. has been extremely divisive. Do we want to be one country–or 10–or 13? Do we care about each other, our neighbours?

Do you recall Maritime farmers shipping hay to Alberta a couple of years ago? Maybe it was only a drop in the bucket, but they TRIED.

I don’t know where you’re from, but in the Maritimes, everyone pitches in to help each other. Maybe it’s the more rural aspect, but I have to love it.

I everyone just takes on the ME, ME, ME attitude, we all lose.

#67 C. B. Innes on 03.30.07 at 12:19 pm

KH would make a good politician: one who used “slight of language” to fool people into thinking some one is saying one thing and really meaning something quite different. That is the problems with the new Conservatives: if you think you know what they mean, watch out. They probably mean something quite different.

That is why they can’t be trusted.

You can play with words all you want to manipulate and fool the public but eventually they catch on to the trick.

#68 smitty on 03.30.07 at 1:46 pm

O.K. Bill- You know better! Sorry it took so long!

#69 KH on 03.30.07 at 10:38 pm

CB, I do not agree with your slight of word statement, and I could never be a politician is way to quick to mouth off, Words are words, the way they are written provide the context as you well know by your well written posts. The fact of the matter is when you cut through the bull shit, their are two options for the govt of NFLD and NS to choice from, the one they asked for, and the other one that was arrived at by the O’Brien study/commission. All I am saying is, they pay their experts to look at these plans, then they pick the one that best suits their own provinces agenda. I still do not understand what Mr. Williams is mouthing off about and I actually like the man. I do know he has an election this year so maybe this is posturing on his part though I do not understand why with a 73% rating in the polls.