So, yeah, I seriously contemplated jumping on my bike on Friday and leaving in a cloud of dust for Port Dover. Friday the 13th, of course, and lately I’ve been in deadly need of a long and solitary ride.
That need was made greater in the morning when Esther and I toured our new campaign headquarters – a broken-down storefront with no toilet in the washroom, a honking big hole in the ceiling and a doorway to the rear alley cut out of the drywall with a machete. Esther batted her lashes. “It’s perfect,†she said, so I guess it is. And away we go.
But the bike ride had to be put on hold for a commitment I’d made months ago to get my butt to the community of Dresden, Ontario Friday evening where I was the guest speaker. Rotary fundraising dinner. Long banquet tables and a heaping buffet. Ten per cent of the town was there – 250 people. Very cool. But my ride was replaced with a 500-km drive, dodging big rigs on the 401 into the breadbasket of southwestern Ontario.
On the way there, of course, I listened to reaction to the day’s big political announcement of the marriage of convenience between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. As you might imagine, I’d known about this for a while, and had mixed feelings about Dion’s decision not to run a candidate against May in her ballsy move to unhorse Peter Mackay.
It was not lost on me what the reaction of the Conservatives would be: (1) Dion is a weak leader who needs a minor political figure like May to prop him up, or , (2) the Libs are careening dangerously to the left, or (3) Cons are so awesome and scary that the opposition needs to shack up, to have a chance against them, or (4) as Monty Solberg so elegantly put it, ‘Stephane Dion is not a leader.’ The man definitely watches too much TV.
On the other side, of course, were all the positive reasons for doing this. The issue of the environment is so important it overwhelms partisanship. Stephen Harper, climate change denier, must be replaced at all costs. Finally, two leaders and two parties showing they can think outside the box and do something voters actually want. Politicians acting like statesmen (and women), in the cause of public policy. Finally, a whiff of change in the spring air in Halifax.
By the time I walked into the Dresden arena, I’d reached the inevitable conclusion that this was, in fact, the right thing to happen. It is time to try and do politics differently. After all, my experiences of the past year and a half have been predicated on questioning the absolute nature, authority and stifling oppression of party politics. I’ve seen how the mainline parties operate, how voters are marginalized, how leaders abuse their positions and how nothing, nothing matters but the acquiring and holding of power. My refusal to knuckle under led directly to my unenviable journey, and onto the doorstep of Stephane Dion. With Elizabeth May and the unproven Greens, he has taken a big risk. I am going to support him in that, without reservation. It’s worth the roll.
And, in case you were wondering, the people of Dresden think it’s a good move, too. That was the overwhelming sense I got from conversations, from the questions after my speech, and the head bobbing that went on as I mentioned Dion and May. Maybe it’s because this is corn country. Maybe because people who live in small towns understand a whole lot better what being green is, and why there’s no choice. Maybe they were trying to irritate their Conservative MP, who was in the audience. Maybe they’re just hungry, too, for a sea change in political life.
By the way, MPtv was out on the streets today, asking other people eight hundred kilometers away what they thought of the Liberal-Green deal. You can watch that video by clicking here.
Saturday, it better not be snowing. My leathers weep for me.
173 comments ↓
I really don’t see the ‘upside’ for the Liberal Party in this. It’s great for May and the Greens, but what the heck do the Liberals get out of this?
I’m glad that there are so many Liberals that have said they won’t run in the next election; it will give them an opportunity to tell voters that they are re-inventing and renewing themselves, a way to symbolically put the Chretien/Martin years behind them. Nobody is yet suggesting that a purge is going on, but it is what the Liberals need.
I’m still thinking that the way things are going, the next election will be a debacle for the Liberals. The knives will be out for Dion.
Will Garth run for the ensuing leadership? I’m sure inquiring minds want to know.
In regards to an election in the near future, anyone care to speculate based on the Halton riding? I’m not aware that they have set an candidate election meeting yet, and am only aware of two candidates so far, Darcy and Rick. I sent a couple of emails to Darcy without getting a respons, Rick is very responsive to emails.
Not to cast aspersions on those two gentlemen, but I read somewhere (was it here), that the CPC leadership isn’t happy with either than running against Garth, and is desperately trying to find someone to carry the torch in the riding.
Questions: how strongly does the CPC feel about defeating Garth in the next election? To what extent are they willing to go? Is there any chance that an election will be called before they find a ’star’ candidate for Halton?
Based on the CPC big shots treatment of the Halton CPC and there chosen and elected candidate, why even bother with riding election? Why don’t they just tell us who they want, and dispense with the charade?
Inquiring minds want to know.
egads. So many typo’s in previous post. Must be late, and too tired.
Midge
Alberta
I am excited by this move on the part of Ms. May and Mr. Dion.
I think it shows a glimmer of hope that rises above partisan politics.
After all the frustration of watching the “green washing” of the Cons, of watching PMSH running around pretending to care about the environment, and watching Mr. Baird running around trying to figure it all out, and all of them blaming the Liberals and everyone else for every thing, instead of taking all the information from all the scientists and environmentalists and using it to actually start doing something, this is a really progressive move.
By this joint annoucement, I think Ms. May and Mr. Dion could actually be putting US, as in the PLANET, first instead of the boys in the back room.
It sure enforces my belief in the Green Values which includs cooperation and all of us working together.
Good on you!!
The only way that I can see the Liberals benefitting from this is if Elizabeth May pulls an “Emerson,” and that shortly after she gets elected, that she switches to the Liberals. Stephane Dion could justify it on the basis that he needs her for an Environment Minister.
What think ye? Could switching parties be justified in just such a scenario? Or would it be preferable if May simply switched to the Liberals right now?
Then what would happen to the Green Party? They would no longer be an anti-establishment party, and would no longer take the high road, but would become part of the same system as the old line parties.
I am not sure that the colors “red” and “green” mix. Somebody is going to have to change their identity.
This move makes Dion look like a desperate man. But what if that one seat is what costs him a majority government? Then I think you might see him cut a deal with May similar to what Harper did with Emerson.
If that should ever happen, would the same people protest as protested last time, or do we only protest depending on whose ox is being gored?
First reaction: awesome news (about May and the grits).
Second reaction: not sure how this will help the Liberals and Dion, but I’m hoping this is one of those it’s so weird it has to work type things.
Yeah, two leaders thinking outside the box…. So why did Dion give Khan an ultimatum? And why did Dion give Comuzzi the heave ho?
I’m starting to wonder if Stronach’s leaving had to do with this Dion/May announcement? May’s carbon tax will surely impact Magna’s Chrysler business futures.
I am sure Mr. Turner is number one on the CPC’s hit list. He is the most dangerous politician in Canada. He allows light where there was darkness and that must be very scary for the two main party leaders but especially the one who muzzles his MPs. But as one can see from the posts here, the Cons remain so as do the Libs, when one is so blinded alligence to their parties that they cannot see the light, it is of little use. I doubt that anyone has changed their mind based on the information they have received from this blog, in fact, I would think positions have only hardened and become, in some cases, more extreme! The voters of Canada are just pawns in the plans of the aspiring dictators. We are being fools if we believe we have any representation in Ottawa or Queens Park for that matter.
One cannot believe party platforms because one has to pick and choose the truths from it, legislative votes are almost always whipped, and few MPs have the backbone to stand up to the party leaders and if they do, well, we all know the consequences of that, don’t we Garth!
The negative press over this could easily be mitigated if the former leadership candidates rallied very loudly behind the decision. Their endorsement will be crucial; their silence will be telling.
My sentiments exactly. I was delighted to hear news of such cooperation. If we ever get to some form of Proportional Representation, such alliances will be necessary (and might even allow Independents to stay put). This is not to discount the rightful concerns of those who say that the voters in the affected ridings are being short-changed, but in the final balance, I think the weight tips towards the move taken. Dion and May are ahead of the curve on this one, I think.
Now, with the types of cooperation we’ve seen lately, this creates 2 perceived alliances: between Conservatives/NDP and between Liberals/Greens. Of the two, I’d say the former makes for more strange bedfellows than the latter, n’est-ce pas?
PS - Mr. Solberg, "Not a leader"? Correction: "Bold leader".this one, I think.
I understand Halton has had its nomination mtg for the Liberals. Also, that the Liberal membership was not all informed of this meeting. Why was that?
Untrue. Party officials did what they are supposed to do. Care for proof? — Garth
There will be, no doubt many comments for and against this move. I will simply say that when it comes to how our political partys act that cooperation is much beter than confrontation.
I’m impressed the Liberals and the Greens took the risky initiative required to be the first political parties to take a step away from partisanship. It’s very hard to drop your guns and make a leap of faith. We can butt heads with one another till there’s no one left standing or put our heads together for the greater good. It’s very encouraging I think.
You know you have hit a nerve when the 2 other parties start freaking out.
I think its a good move….having the Green Party represented in parliment will give the NDP a run for their money.
They are the ones responsible for the defeat of Kelowna and Kyoto….they need to come clean with what they have done.
It is interesting that Craig Oliver said yesterday on Mike Duffy Live on the media panel said this is a cunning move by Dion and that and that Dion is being endorsed by a strong environmentalist and that it is a good move – http://www.ctv.ca/politics
Elizabeth May is an intelligent, articulate spokesperson on the environment, with right-wing tendencies leanings in other areas – fiscal conservative – so it’s good Dion is helping her add her voice to the debate in parliament. First she’s got to win that Nova Scotia seat, of course. p.s. If the “new” Conservative government were really smart, they’d be head hunting her for their cause, but I guess they’re not ready yet to embrace the reality of “global warming.” Jack Layton should join the effort to help May get a seat, but he’s too afraid of the competition.
I am going to support him in that, without reservation. It’s worth the roll.
Good You are correct; things are changing on the political landscape, most if not all that vote do not bother with pre-election stuff. They read, via the web, scan the headlines and make their own minds up. Liz May is accepted by many and Stephane was right to be up front in his decision. David Orchard knows very well what went on behind closed doors with Harper & MacKay! Canadians want the best minds to work to-gether so the sooner Ottawa learns Canadians come first every day not just on election day the better. With have heard the sad predictions of the effects of Global warming so it would be wise to have a leader who is willing to listen rather than condemn. I also believe Hospital Care should be given top billing as the effects of poor air quality and heat stroke will only complicate the heavy tasking of emergency service more.
Tor Star: A Liberal strategist, speaking on condition of anonymity, said there is widespread anger at the deal in caucus, which Liberals feel could be used against them in a federal election. The strategist said the decision was another strike against Dion, whose leadership has come into question in recent months.
“The only reason this was not the final straw is because of the threat of an election,” the strategist said.
~people in this riding are very angry that they will not be given the opportunity to vote Liberal. Very angry. oops. L
Elizabeth May has sold out her own party for Stephane Dion and Dion has sold out his party for Elizabeth May. The only question that remains is how long will it be before their respective parties return the favour. The Green Party may not survive the betrayal, but the Liberal Party certainly will.
“I am not sure that the colors “red†and “green†mix”
Actually – they do mix – in color theory – red and green are opposites and when you mix them you get GRAY!!!
Which is just what this move is – Gray -
Libs and Greens are in a very gray area in terms of what this means.
May is saying to all Green supporters and other candidates – piss off. I want you to vote for me in CN but in all other ridings, vote Liberal?
Wow – how to piss off a good chunk of the population who have been hanging their hat on the enviromental bandwagon she purports.
And Dion – well… he is just – GRAY.
Everytime I hear him speak, I am straining to figure out what he has just said?
I find it interesting that most commentors here say that this is a great merger yet are quick to vilify the Conservative merger.
From what I understand, this was a bit of a surprise move to many in the Liberal caucus, yet Garth, you say you have known about it for weeks. Interesting?
Garth,frankly I don’t see the logic behind it all.Last time out the Green’s were barely on the radar in both ridings.Dion won by a landslide.In McKay’s riding the NDP did better than the Libs.And now ya got 10,349 liberal voters who could be just a LITTLE BIT upset.The whole issue only gives the Cons another way to sidestep the real issues for the next 5 weeks until you guys get the big vacation.
As for back-room politics.The Reform-Conservative’s should remember that we remember the old adage about glass houses and throwing stones. Mr.Solberg.No one cares what Mr.Dion watches on TV.It’s not something any intelligent person would think about.
Garth.What’s happening with this election thingy.Is Harper waiting for more winning conditions in Quebec.
Garth, word out there is you had a secret nomination meeting last week and some Liberals in Halton are upset about it. Comment?
And last week I was accused of stealing $20 campaign donations. How can you believe such crap? — Garth
This has happened before. Mackenzie King, the longest running PM, made deals and as I understand it he did it for Tommy Douglas when the NDP was the CCP party.
So, why are the other parties acting like it’s a shock and horrible and whatever.
Mike Duffy said the Liberals and Conservatives had struck deals before, only in secret, and it wasn’t known until it was leaked after elections.
Monte Solberg seemed rattle and Jack Layton almost looked like he was in a panic.
Garth – here’s a chance to clear your name. One certain blogger is at it again claiming you had a “secret” nomination meeting and the the Halton Liberals were angry – is this true?
Would this be the same blogger who invested his creds in alleging I was stealing campaign donations, only to retract after the ‘damage’ was done? Some source. — Garth
Oh, I don’t know about that. Add a bit of common ground – neutral white perhaps – and you have Neapolitan ice cream. Or, see how common that theme is elsewhere; for example, take a look here…
I saw the anger in Jack Layton’s interview. Why is he so angry? He sees that this move is intended to get soft NDP’s to move to Liberals
I am not concerned with GREEN.
But I am concerned with PMSH hanging around with the MQM which has documented terrorist elements. While the CPC braintrust probably think it is a great photo op, I think it is a reverse attack ad.
This Dion-May thingie is not about the Liberals, and only tangentially about the Greens. It is really a squeeze play on Layton.
Both Dion and May want to dropkick Layton into the ether. Expect to see informal alliances with a number of Dippers who will need both Liberal and Green cooperation to win their ridings next time (Siksay, Black, Priddy, etc etc).
Catherine, you don’t have to look into dark corners for the answer to this one. Let me see, decisions, decisions? …
“Should I continue being shyte on as a politician for a $150 grand a year, or take on a prime role as an auto executive for, oh, maybe 100 times the salary, and with bonus, a whole lot less scrutiny in the public eye?”
Hardly seems like much of a decision to me. As for the impact of Magna’s Chrysler business futures, you’ve neglected to consider the “half full” counterpart to your “half empty” allusion. This could inspire a whole new line of business $$$ in green auto parts. I listened yesterday to the “Ontario Today” phone-in to the appliance repair guy, and after years of fixing standard appliances, he’s excited about the prospects for training in all the new technologies being applied to the mundane world of fridges, stoves and washing machines. Very infectious. For example, given how much time that many of us spend away from home during the day, I can’t understand why there isn’t more widespread use of the type of on-demand water heaters that one encounters in Europe or Asia.
Anyhow, back to your original question. If you start taking such speculation seriously, then I got a conspiracy-theory video for you.
“And now he says that he wants to take the high road, yet, his defence critic is acting like a rabid dog.â€
Catherine, would this decription also fit the present Environment Minister? I am amazed that one can see any difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives when it comes to civility. Quite frankly, both parties are interested only in ruling and could care less about their constituents.
By PJW on 04.14.07 5:41 am
Catherine I brought this over from two posts ago since you didn’t answer.
as the effects of poor air quality and heat stroke will only complicate the heavy tasking of emergency service more.
Of course Canada already has excellent air quality and environmental norms. And for the millionth time, climate change has nothing to do with ‘air quality’.
The Red Green thing is of no real concern to anyone, its a marriage of convenience Mr. Dion to squeeze Mr. Layton. I am a maritimer and Duffy was right it takes a lot to have down homers change political colors, If anything, I think he might of helped Mr.MacKay. I am betting he will pick up lots of the small L liberal supprt. Garth, You made Nationalnewswatch.com, you might want to address this issue ASAP, the optics are horrible.
Don’t believe everything you read, especially on anonymous hate web sites. Last week I was accused of stealing $20 campaign donations. This week I am accused of stealing the Lib nomination. Amazing what children posing as men will do in the sanctity of the Milton rec rooms. This report is, of course, false. — Garth
We all know how effective and clairvoyant strategists can be (
... take Paul Martin's Scott Reid, anyone?...). Perhaps you should listen to this morning’s “The House” for an alternate take:Stephane Dion announced this week, that his party won’t run a candidate against Elizabeth May in the next federal election. What does the Liberal Party’s riding association in Central Nova think about that? Kathleen asks riding President Allan Armsworthy…
Listen here.
Garth
You stated
As you might imagine, I’d known about this for a while, and had mixed feelings about Dion’s decision not to run a candidate against May in her ballsy move to unhorse Peter Mackay.
I have listened to what both Dion and May had to say regarding this deal and they indicated that this was a recent development. Are you that well connected to Dion’s braintrust that you are notified of tactical decisions daily? How long have you been aware of this deal? May told Adler that this does not constitute a “backroom” deal, do you agree? Does this indicate a further move to the left in Lib environmental policy? Are we talking carbon tax and if so how much? Will this have a negative effect on the manufacturing sector?
What say you Garth?
Syncro
I say I have good sources and people talk to me. — Garth
I admire both May and Dion and applaud this move; I hope fellow Canadians can get behind it since, as Garth said, “It’s time to do politics differently.”
Really enjoyed CPAC coverage on it: Monte Solberg was discombobulated and despite managing to deliver his tired old key messages (Dion is not a leader…) he also managed to suggest Dion will be next prime minister, and a few other misses. No doubt he’s in leg irons today.
And Jack Layton is twisted up like a pretzel — it’s not democratic, all that jazz. Jack is sweating profusely.
So it must be good news for Canadians. They ALL doth protest too much!
This move will just help split the NDP vote allowing MacKay to win again. Liberal supporters will not know whether to vote for the Greens or NDP to defeat Mackay. Some can’t swallow the NDP’s far left agenda and others are uncomfortable with May’s social conservatism.
Proves Dion is a one trick pony who needs support to prop him up. If the Liberals ever want to occupy the government side of the house again, they need to dump Dion and find a “leader” (see websters). Elizabeth May is riding a pipe dream into oblivion.
Do I want proof? Yes.
Simply request it of the administering body, the Liberal Party of Canada, Ontario. — Garth
Yup, I believe it is the same blogger – who seems to be out to get you. I saw the big headliner on National Newswatch early this morning. I just checked it out and my, my – the post has been deleted from the National Post. I can’t remember his/her blog name but it is “Rebo”…something or other who continually claims they have the inside sources, etc.
This guy should be called up on his misleading blog. Why should a liar be able to get away with it.
Whoops – I meant to say “deleted from National Newswatch”…..
Garth
Granted…you have good sources. Thanks for answering that question. If you have the time and the wherewithal could you answer the other questions I posed? How long have you known? Backroom…no? Carbon tax? How much? Will lib environmental policy affect the manufacturing sector? Does this indicate a move to the left for the LPC?
Syncro
How long I had known, or how, or what I did about it, are private issues, as I am sure you can understand. It was hardly backroom, since the members of the Central Nova Liberal association had been discussing it for some time and May had made many public statements about Dion. Carbon tax – Dion published his Carbon Budget plan a month ago, which is the mnost comprehensive statement on this issue to date. Read it (http://www.liberal.ca). As for moving to the left, do you honestly think I am a guy who would support that? My PC parents would be spinning. — Garth
The May-Dion alliance is a real Liberal blunder.In return for not running a Liberal in Central Nova,May won’t run a Liberal in Dion’s riding.What a relief!
The Greens disagree with all the Liberal policies except the environment and they are right of the CPC on a lot of things.
Harper might even do a jig if May could defeat McKay!
But the real issue is this:
In the same way that we have been beating the drums on how the CPC machine
ignored Halton riding’s wishes and made our elected member walk the plank,Dion has now taken the voice from Central Nova Liberal voters on nominating someone who stands for all their values by agreeing not to field a candidate.
It’s all moot because McKay was going to win anyway,but Libeal voters might just hold their noses and vote for him just to send a shot accross the bow of “Head office”,ie, “Don’t tell us how to vote”
Way to go Garth. Two principled leaders pledging to work together for the good of the country. It can’t get much better than that. Petty partisan politics is cynical, destructive, dishonest, wastes time and tax dollars, and frankly has become a bloodsport in this country. More power to the leaders who stand by their principles and allow us to see who they really are and what they really stand for.
Lookie here. Garth towing the party line. What a surprise. Of course this is the right decision for the Liberals, because today is the blow that will collapse the Green party.
This essentially politicizes the cross-spectrum political alliance that makes up the Green party and will ultimately evaporate any soft Green support. Soft Green right-of-centers will not support a party that endorses the Liberals for running the country. Soft Green left-of-centers, ditto. And why should anyone who’s voting Green with a second choice of the Liberals vote Green if they’re essentially voting for a candidate that supports the Grits?
Elizabeth May has essentially destroyed her party, and Dion has collapsed a rising tide that threatened his party’s position. Liberals should rejoice, the rest of us should mourn another step to democracy’s death.
What to say about all those Liberals supporters in Central Nova, they now have no candidate to support, that hardly seems like a fair consequence for them. Elizabeth May cannot beat Peter MacKay, will not even come close. Greens are polling well right now but come the X marking moment all that support vanishes into not so clean air. Personally I don’t think is a smart or even a right move, Liberal votes in Central Nova are not going to go to May, they may in fact just get parked. Bad move by Dion from any optical angle you look at it. You where right to go with your first instinct Garth when you had hesitations about it from the start. Did you offer your input to Mr. Dion when it first came up?
Yes, of course. — Garth
Garth, With all due respect, What the Assoc President says means little. I am sure you understand that with your vast time playing this game. I am eagerly waiting to see what the Lib supporters from Central Nova have to say before I will make a call on this. It is different I will say that, I just do not see looking at the numbers from the last election how Mr.Dion or Ms.May will benefit. Something else that has me curious is, if this is such a great idea and the LPC is on side with it, why did it take so long to make this decision, I fear that we are going to discover that Mr.Dion forced his way thru on this one and a lot of senior Liberals are biting the insides of their mouths to keep quiet, which we all know will only last for a little while and then it will get “leaked”. Anyway, reserving my opinion until some MSM gets down into the riding and starts talking to the voters.
SLG, If you look to the left on NNW it is still there just with Garth’s rebuttal as the lead in.
Red and Green becomes Brown, as in 30’s style collectivist big state oppression.
Regardless, the winner here is clearly Harper. Dion’s deal is incredibly stupid, just look at the people he is now associated with (Kevin in BC…). Not to mention that the local Libs have absolutely no say in this matter – is that democracy?
Garth, Further to my last to SLG and the nomination meeting, Could you link to some advertising that was done by the Assoc to indicate that the meeting was be held and when it was to be held, a generic email sent out to Lib members in the Assoc with the same info. This info would put the matter to rest, I searched the local papers online and couldn’t find the ads but that doesn’t mean they are not their.
That’s not my role, as a candidate. It is for the local association to handle such matters, of course. The meeting was authorized by the Liberal Party of Canada, Ontario. Call ‘em. — Garth
OK, I did, included you as a CC on the email to the riding president.
Then again what if the 10,000 plus liberals in McKay’s riding decided to vent their anger by giving all their votes to the NDP.Just a thought.
Garth, word out there is you had a secret nomination meeting last week and some Liberals in Halton are upset about it. Comment?
And last week I was accused of stealing $20 campaign donations. How can you believe such crap? — Garth
By jim on 04.14.07 9:20 am
My policy is, “when in doubt, check it out”.
So I asked you.
It’s a load of manure I take it?
Steaming. — Garth
Garth: I keep reading things about those storied enlightened “Progressives” that ran Manitoba for years, when actually Duff Roblin was the guy that lifted the province out of a very stunted position in just about every category, every measure. You knew Duff, you worked with him. Can you please tell a few of your new Liberal friends that the old Manitoba Progressives they hold in such esteem were not super social activists but stodgy penny pinchers that were actually turfed from office by a conservative who actually ran to the left of the Progressives?
Yea, Garth orchestrated a make believe nomination meeting for a ‘fake’ party .
Just to make himself feel good .
I still think it was done by acclimation .
You guys make me laugh .
Watch out for the “Truth Squads ” Garth they are out to get you .
In an election where every opportunity to get your message out counts, the Conservatives are renewing a strategy called the “truth squad.”
A neo-con spokesperson said the”truth squad” will ensure that everything the Liberals says is “accurate.” He says the need to fight back when accusations are made is important. It’s “somebody to answer from our point of view.”
“Stephen Harper opened by being very negative and going on the attack, on Dions leadership capabilities, and now we hear that they are going to send their candidates out to do much the same thing,”
Truth the first casualty of war .
I would say the Truth Squads are already here in the person of Leasa and Teyla and a bunch of others. Always spinning the truth into lies and fabrications .
I think the “Dion- May” move is briliant and that there is more to this “deal” then meets the eye.
Bottom line is: In return for future consideration to the Greeen Party ,the Liberals have effectively caught up to the CPC in current public polling numbers.
It is now a foot race between the 2 major parties and the Party with the “best workable out of box solution that makes Canadians feel good”
should win a majority.
Go Sens GO!
Yea, Garth orchestrated a make believe nomination meeting for a ‘fake’ party .
Just to make himself feel good ?
I still think it was done by acclimation .
You guys make me laugh .
“So I asked you.
It’s a load of manure I take it?
Steaming. — Garth”
Garth, on the Liberal Party of Canada Ontario website under “Nominated Candidates” it shows your name. Does this mean that when we accepted you into the Liberal Party that we automatically gave you the nomination for the next election? I’m so confused now.
It means I was nominated. — Garth
You know, the Liberal supporters in Nova Scotia wouldn’t really lose anything. If May did win, she’s supporting Dion.
This is not a recent backroom deal either. I watched May being interviewed after she became leader of the Green Party and she said “the thought of a Harper majority scares the hell out of her” and she was willing to participate a some sort of coalition if necessary. So, it shouldn’t be news to anyone including the Green Party.
It’s to their benefit – a seat in the House and puts their party in the headlines.
If Robert Fife says iw was a bad move you know you have a winner on your hands .
Since Garth has campaigned for both Elizabeth May (in London) and for Stephane Dion (as a Liberal), it would be my “guess” that he just may have had something to do with linking May and Dion up into a partnership. Correct me if I am wrong.
The one thing that we will need to be thinking ahead about, however, is when and if Elizabeth May becomes Stephane Dion’s new Environment Minister, will May have to cbange her thinking on the North American Free Trade Agreement, or will the Liberal Party revert back to its campaign of 1988 when it actively campaigned against free trade?
People will want to know where the various candidates truly and honestly stand on these important issues.
One can fool some of the people all the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.
I agree with those who initially saw this as a great move, but upon sober second thought, could also see potential problems coming down the road if the logical outcome of this course is pursued.
The Liberals may in fact need this one seat in Central Nova, which may cause the move to turn out to be less than brilliant, if not a blunder. The only way, in my view, that this could become a “plus” is if Elizabeth May switched and outright joined the Liberals, and for this to work, somehow I think it would be wisdom for her to switch before the election rather than afterwards. Otherwise, the electorate may feel by-passed one more time.
It may be difficult to predetermine how those over 10,000 Liberal members in McKay’s riding are going to swing. They may feel disenfranchised. Food for thought.
I think Dion has really made a smart move. I hope Jack Layton will jump on board before his party gets squeezed out. Dion is no dummy and i am sure he has thought long and hard about this decision. I am hoping that Adrianne Carr in B.C. could have the same sort of deal worked out and perhaps a few more Green Liberal Deals. WE have to get HArper out at all costs before he sells our souls to the U.S.
I think this is one of the most exciting political moves for a long time. To bad more politicians would not make the move. I guess they put their party before the people.
I think Dion is fully prepared for the next election and this really emphasizes that point. The liberals i feel will gain much green support in all ridings in Canada and the greens may in fact elect their first candidate. It is a win win win situation. A win for Liberals, a win for Greens and a win for Canadians.
Gerard Kennedy and Dion represent a fresh voice in politics and i think their team will make smart moves like this to surprise their competition and defeat them in the next election. I usually vote ndp but will vote liberal or green now, unless layton stops his partisan politiking and gets on board the band wagon.
Keep up the good work Garth!!
Jackie..I have a great idea…you know the ones who are only here to trap people, let’s just ignore them like they have done when you ask a question they can’t or won’t answer. Can’t because they don’t know or won’t because they haven’t permission.
That should work!
This word just in from the CBC News:
“Winning Central Nova will be an uphill fight for May.
“MacKay won easily in the last federal election, with 40.6 per cent of the popular vote. He was followed by the NDP candidate at 32.9 per cent, while the Green candidate tallied less than two per cent of the vote.
“CBC reporter Stephen Puddicombe said almost nobody he spoke to in the riding thinks MacKay will be defeated.
“They call it ‘Peter MacKay’s riding,’ they don’t even call it a Conservative riding,” said Puddicombe.
“The deal could also generate a backlash within Dion’s and May’s parties. Many Greens are upset with May for praising Dion’s environmental record, and some local Liberals have already spoken out against Dion’s move.”
So the other unpredictible element now is where the disillusioned members of both the Green and the Liberal Party are going to go. Let’s keep our fingers crossed as we observe this bizarre turn of events.
Once again. Is everyone suffering from malignant brain cramps ?
Scott Brison an ex neo-con was told he would never win Kings-Hants as a
Liberal .
Guess what ? He won in a landslide .
Why don’t you so-called prognosticators give it a rest and admit you know nothing ?
I am fed up with reading stupid opinion pieces base on nothing more than supposition and conjecture .
May has a more than an excellent chance of unseating the “dog talker” Petey Mckay.
Were the local Liberals not consulted in this decision?
They made the nomination. — Garth
JCHL, I beg to differ with you last comment, Brison was a home town boy and I personally never doubted he would hold on to his seat, the advantage that McKay has is the same.
Has everyone forgotten that NS is one of the provinces that’s angry with the Conservatives over equalization.
I suppose MacKay will come up with some sort of candy.
Sorry, but isn’t it dumb to vote a certain way just because of family history? Really dumb.
No need to think – just vote the daddy and grandpappy did.
And, isn’t is dumb to vote because the MacKay family have been elected for 40 years? If it’s father like son, oh, oh.
“I’ve seen how the mainline parties operate, how voters are marginalized”
-Garth
I am sorry Garth, I just disagree here and must voice my decent. Democracy is diminished for local voters by your big party leadership. This is a back room deal of the worst and most cynical type.
You are denying a local Liberal or Green candidate the right to represent their voters, and you deny local voters the right to vote for two very different parties and platforms. How you can make this statement and support Dion’s decision given your history with ‘party politics’? Especially since all the impassioned writing you did about how our local rights where overridden by the party leadership when they removed you. It just inconsistent and I am afraid far too convenient for you to support something like this now. It goes against the principals you have stated on this blog repeatedly.
By the way saving the environment is great, but how about we give some attention to flesh and blood before we worry about grass and bark. There are people still suffering and dying in Darfur! Even Google is trying to bring attention to it because politicians to quickly forget and only seem to care about what the media makes front page news. But I guess it would take Al Gore to make a pseudo-science movie about it before we take any action. I am really and truly unmoved by any type of environmentally focussed agenda when we still don’t know how to be our brother’s keeper.
Oh my goodness, I think some are going to do a jig…..lol
Jackie..I have a great idea…you know the ones who are only here to trap people, let’s just ignore them like they have done when you ask a question they can’t or won’t answer. Can’t because they don’t know or won’t because they haven’t permission.
That should work!
By PJW on 04.14.07 1:26 pm
Couldn’t agree with you more PJ .
I have tried,only,responding to people who have been here awhile and show a modicum of knowledge and respect for facts. But it is tough .
I feel personally challenged by those that indulge in fabrications and lies .
I’ll try it .
Oh Daniel…get real….the party leaders tell them how to vote! WHAT VOICE ARE THE PEOPLE LOSING, YOU THINK YOUR VOTE MATTERS? I cannot believe people honestly think it matters. what is it you can’t understand? You go vote for someone, he/she goes to Ottawa and does as he/she is told until the next vote. Then he/she comes back and tells some truth and some lies which you are supposed to figure out, and then goes back to Ottawa to do as they are told. And you think you have a voice in this…come on, think about it!
Garth, do you ever think that no-one is listening:
“He later resigned from the Conservative Party and sat as an independant…..” – Trevor Terfloth -Chatham Daily News concerning your visit to Dresden.
Do you want to tell him or should I? Maybe I should cancel my subscription!
I was not aware a reporter was even there. — Garth
DUBE
Thought I would check in here after a long absence to see what Garth thought of the suject.
I see you are still around along with Catherine. Half the fun back in the good old days was teasing Judy!!!
We probably will never meet, and possibly not agree on much but I always did respect you and enjoyed our “back and forth”.
This site became to much of a “rabble” for me to spend time on. I stil have never posted anywhere else so I have lot’s of time on my hands as a result. Which is good, with golf season just around the corner.
Back then it was enjoyable.
(check Garth’s 123 comment’s on October 19th, and 17th 99 comment’s 2006, well all of October was a fun month)
OCTJMO – ICBW
Have a good one cyber space friend!
P.S. I wonder if this means that when it comes to the TV debates that only the Conservatives, NDP, and of course Gilles Duceppe would be allowed to participate as he is the most interesting. The Liberals and the Greens will be omitted as they won’t be running a full slate of candidates, as well, they are the least interesting!
A few facts to ponder:
To beat MacKay, May would have to pick up all the votes that went to the third-place Liberals in 2006 and half the second-place NDP’s votes.
Many polls suggest the Greens have doubled their support from the 2006 election since May became leader in August. That support has bobbled above and below 10 per cent, but May is perceived to have credibility on the issue that has been a top priority for Canadians of late _ the environment.
Dion’s odds of holding his safe Montreal seat are already so good that the Greens’ non-participation will make little difference. He won St. Laurent-Cartierville with almost 60 per cent of the vote last time.
I purchased the Readers Digest for April because I wanted to know a bit more about Stephane Dion. I basically disliked the Liberals under Martin and Chrétien and Harpo even more. I voted Green. It seems to me Stephane is different—for one thing not a lawyer!!! His picture in the April issue of Readers Digest is wonderful and I think it should be used in as much advertising as possible. I think he looks like the Prime Minister I want. I tried to find it on the RD website. No luck.
I have hope Stephane might use a motto something like this: profitability and sustainability through taking care of the environment while creating a rich life in all aspects for all Canadians.
I think the Readers Digest article should be on Stephane’s website somewhere or even on Garth’s. It would be great if RD would give the rights. It would be good advertising for them. This article certainly convinced me to take another look and consider changing my vote. His alliance with Elisabeth May has made it easier for me to vote Liberal when I want Harpo and his disciples out of there so bad. I felt I had to vote Liberal rather than Green to get rid of Harpo. Now I will vote Liberal and get a Green in Parliament as well.
I wonder when Canadians are going to mature and vote for the “quiet†man who is co-operative, steady, intelligent, caring and sensitive rather than the autocratic Harper— IMHO— who is more like a TV evangelist in that all he cares about is money and power. It is unfortunate that many people interpret rigidity as we see in Harpo as strength. That is how Hitler got popular!!!!!
Garth I don’t see the “please donate†button on your website yet:>)
“Has everyone forgotten that NS is one of the provinces that’s angry with the Conservatives over equalization.
I suppose MacKay will come up with some sort of candy.
Sorry, but isn’t it dumb to vote a certain way just because of family history? Really dumb.
No need to think – just vote the daddy and grandpappy did.
And, isn’t is dumb to vote because the MacKay family have been elected for 40 years? If it’s father like son, oh, oh.”
Except it’s not like that. 60% of the population of the riding voted against McKay in the last election. The reason personal support for him is high and will remain strong is because he comes from a politically-driven family who’s proven through years of hard work and service to the community to understand the needs of his constituents and work to achieve their goals. People have faith in his leadership, so they vote for him. A huge part of electability is trust.
Hi Garth, Does the Liberal party even require nomination meetings for encumbent MPS? I thought it was only the Conservative party that requires a new nomination. It could be that I am ignorent to the process but if you could answer it would be appreciated. Thanks
Sitting MPs are ‘protected,’ which means they are acclaimed as candidates for the next election. That still requires a nomination meeting to formalize. — Garth
Well ‘I’ think that the Dion May deal is terrific! It shows cooperation on a limited issue basis. It also shows that Dion is not afraid of having May as a player in the debates (unlike Harper) and I can’t wait to see May slice & dice the likes of John Baird on environment issues. (ooo won’t that be fun!) Dion knows having a handful of Greens in the house isn’t threatening – if anything it’ll add more elements of cooperation in the HoC and keep the Liberals on their toes. Why is Jack huffing and puffing? Gee do you think he is afraid that the greens are sneaking up on his territory and more & more Canadians are shifting from a hopeless NDP movement to Green?
Dion is not only showing he’s a terrfic leader he’s a very clever one!
Ed Brooks, hey buddy, you aren’t still hanging on with that lot are you? Come into the light – come join us buddy! Alternatively I suppose you could offer Wally that you’ll run? LOL You’ve got more brains than the other 3 put together!(smile)
Garth,
Aren’t the Liberal members of Central Nova entitled to decide whether or not they want to run a Liberal candidate. I don’t like to see leaders exercise the power to boot people out of caucus, and I don’t like to see them go over the heads of the local party members and the voters to appoint a candidate. But to actually deny both the voters and the party members the right to even have a candidate? That’s really tough to swallow. If I were a Liberal or a Liberal voter in Central Nova I’d be pretty pissed right now. I would think, at a minimum the local members there (or the Greens in Dion’s riding, I don’t remember the name) should have had an open, public meeting, in which they could vote on whether or not to run a candidate.
And on another topic, I just heard that you were made the Liberal candidate without a nomination meeting or a process. Is this true? And if not do you intend to have one sometime in the future? Thx.
Ask Central Nova Libs yourself. Seems I heard they were supporting the move. As for me, how could you believe such a fabrication? I was nominated last week. — Garth
Sorry,
Just read some of the stuff above. What does “getting nominated” involve in your view? Does the party make the decision, the local members? Some other method? Rest of the questions still stand.
My view has nothing to do with it. Parties have rules, and follow them. Candidates are nominated according to those rules, administered by local associations. — Garth
By PJW on 04.14.07 10:00 am,
I didn’t hear Mr. Baird call anyone an arms dealer, did you?
Denis Coderre owes Mr. O’Connor an apology!
Daniel, you are right we should be helping those who are suffering all over the world instead of fighting a war that we can never win. We are killing and being killed by the Taliban that Karzai is trying to make peace with. Let us remember that Harpo has got his marching orders from GWB and we will not leave unless we throw them out of office. I hope we will then free our military to do good in the world. We must save the planet if we hope to feed the hungry who are at risk of having their land washed away. I know Mr Dion is an honest man and is doing what he feels is best for Canada. I have not had such faith in a leader since Bill Davis and Pierre Trudeau. Give our leader a chance and I am sure this is not the last surprise.
Warren Kinsella, a past Liberal mouth piece, was on Charles Adler Friday. He was explicit that the Liberals are not happy with Dion. You can have a listen to the interview:
http://www.630ched.com/station/audiovault_members.cfm
You will need to login (free).
In fact during the same time period, Adler interviewed Ms. May. Ms.May basically stated that she deserved to be uncontested, as she was a party leader. Seems a tad undemocratic!
Just what is Jackie Chans right hand so busy with eh?
Come on Jackie – to beat McKay doesn’t May just have to get a cute puppy and ask the electorate if they are happy with Harper and how he’s been treating the east?
“It’s to their benefit – a seat in the House and puts their party in the headlines.”
But sometimes these young, upstart parties bite the hand that feeds them.
With the volatile mood of the electorate right now, we can all see what recently happened in Quebec with the phenomenal rise of the ADQ–all the way from barely being on the electoral map, to becoming the Official Oppositon, all in one election!
If the Green Party wins only one seat in the next election, by the next election (which could be only months later), they could be the Official Opposition, or even the Government, given the present mood of the electorate. All that the electorate wants is to sense that an anti-establishment party has a legitimate chance of bringing in real change.
In that case, by giving the Green Party such respectability, Stephane Dion could have masterminded his own demise, or at least that of the Liberal Party of Canada.
People genuinely want change, and will readily swing for an anti-establishment party once that they feel it has a chance.
The meteroic rise of the Green could mean the demise of Liberal Red, although individual members like Dion and Garth could save their own hyde by abandoning the Liberal ship and by joining the Green.
That is why I say that the rise of the Green could mean the end of the Red Party, but not necessarily of those Liberals who have the foresight to swing to the left-leaning Green Party.
Surely this move can and may set the Green Party up in a way that they can establish the beach-head that they need, and from which they can clobber the Reds.
If that should happen, this move could only be construed as a mistake if one clings to the ideal that the aging Liberal Party has not outlived its usefulness, and that it must be preserved at all costs.
Just like the old PC Party had to die to stand a chance of forming a government, we are now in a scenario where the Liberal Party of Canada could very easily find itself in the same predictament.
Already, I see that since the Environment is the big issue, more Reds will want to turn Green than there are Greens who will want to turn Red. The future is with the Greens, not the Reds. The Reds in Canada could go the same way that they did in other parts of the world.
With tongue in cheek, perhaps I might even propose the new motto for the Green Party to be, “Better Green than Lean, and Better Dead than Red!”
Thanks for answering my question Catherine, in the same manner that all Cons and Libs do…avoid the question. Have a nice day!
“Sitting MPs are ‘protected,’ which means they are acclaimed as candidates for the next election. That still requires a nomination meeting to formalize.”
What would one do in the event that an incumbent was a dud, and somebody of noble character wanted to challenge the incumbent? Would there not be freedom for such a challenge to occur in the interests of democracy and not necessarily giving incumbents a free ticket to the nomination without the possibity of being contested?
Nomination does not mean election. Parties are free to chose who they want to represent them, then voters decide. An imperfect system, of course. — Garth
I can not believe that Stephane Dion would not consult the local Central Nova liberal riding assc before making his announcement, this is something that PMSH might do but not Dion, maybe some blogger from Nova Scotia will correct me if I’m wrong. As for Jack Layton being angrey we must never forget that it was he who put an end to Kyoto, Kelowna and Early Child Care and put the Harper Party in power.
One thing is clear about this decision. For the Liberals Dion is a total disaster and will get destroyed by a massive Conservative majority. Smart Liberals would knife him in the back over the next few days and replace him with anyone else.
Second May has no place in the debates. I used to lobby for the Greens in the debates. As Liberal environment minister that would be just as inappropriate as including Baird
If I was a card carrying Liberal in Central Nova right now, I think I would really feel disenfranchised. If my motive was to defeat Peter MacKay at all costs, I think that I might be tempted to throw my lot in with the NDP since in the last election in that riding, the NDP had 32.9% of the popular vote, and the Green Party only 2%.
The Liberals ended up with even less than the NDP, so even a Liberal-Green coalition (assuming all of those who voted for those parties last time will continue to do so) would not be sufficient for an election, with the greater chance for an upset going to the NDP.
Besides, the Green and the NDP are closer ideologically and philosophically anyway. Any chance of an NDP-Green coalition?
At least that one might stand a realistic chance.
Pt. Dover. I live 20 minutes away from the beautiful lake town of Pt. Dover. It’s a special place that every Friday 13 transforms into this spectacular Biker’s Party. It’s quite a sight to see our roads going to Dover travelled by 1000’s of bikes all at one time. I couldn’t make it this year, but my son went. One thing he commented on was the huge number of Hell’s Angels there with their colours and emblems. Perhaps they were so out there was because the rival gang is now defunct (the last 8 were slaughtered).
Anyway, if you can possibly go…Dover is beautiful and has the best fresh Perch dinner in the world at the Erie Beach and the best hog dogs in Canada…
L
“An imperfect system, of course.”
Granted, it is an imperfect system, but surely it can be improved upon. Surely in the interests of democracy and an open society, we can allow incumbents to be challenged at their own nomination meetings.
I say this because the nomination meeting is more personalized and more grassroots democracy in deciding which candidate will represent the party than the general election is capable of being in deciding who will be the next MP. Should not the grassroots people have a part in the nomination process as well as in the election? Surely that would be an improvement, albeit, as you say, “imperfect.”
Catherine: Is Oderre actually wrong? If Mr. O’connor is fascilitating the arms dealers in supplying the government with weaponry than perhaps indirectly Mr. O’Connor can be given the title of “arms length, arms dealer”.
Besides, O’Connor has made so many faux pas for Harper , I’m surprised he’s still around. Now his comparing Afghanistan to Iraq is sure not going to please Steve. Someone give this man some help. He’s a relic from the past.
Cris on You so right HARPO is total disaster Not Dion Very smart move Why you cons are so pissed of Harper got to go fishing I’m sure there are smart cons but not smart enough to get out off Harper or no guts Who wants to work for dictator in this time and no right to there own opinion only have to except leis and you know it fals accusations
No Point Judy is asking Catherine, she couldn’t answer my question in a forthright and honest manner, she is obviously not open at all and so you are going to get the party line. Personally i think that is dishonest, in my question to her i specially asked if her comment could apply to Mr. Baird AS WELL….she obviously took that as an attack on the Cons. I was agreeing with her but asking if she saw Mr. Baird in the same light. But perfect people are perfect people, so it is a waste of time talking with her.
Just read breaking news in G&M—Mario Dumont wants to open the Constitution and have Quebec sign? I am afraid that even Harpo can’t meet their price. I know Mario well and I am afraid that Meech Lake will indeed be child’s play. Harper wants to give the provinces more power well let’s see how well he handles this crisis. While we are at it why don’t we go for and elected Senate, let us have the smart and well informed voters that elected Mike Harris clowns vote for the Senate. We have some of the finest men have been chosen as Senators, would our smart voters have chosen the likes of Hugh Segal among others I think not. Reform is in order but not elections. Most of our Prime Ministers have made good choices. Hope this makes sense, I have trouble expressing my thoughts in English when I am upset.
Sitting MPs are ‘protected,’ which means they are acclaimed as candidates for the next election. That still requires a nomination meeting to formalize. — Garth
Told ‘em a dozen times it would be by acclamation.
But what do I know ?
JCLH,
WHEW, I just sat here and read ALL the comments since Garth started this topic…as a result my brain hurts. So, I will just reiterate what you so eloquently said and add a link.
Why don’t you so-called prognosticators give it a rest and admit you know nothing ?
I am fed up with reading stupid opinion pieces base on nothing more than supposition and conjecture .
And now the link…Want to know WHY Elizabeth May is running in Peter MacKay’s riding? Here are the reasons in Elizabeth’s own words from her own blog.
Why Central Nova?
So, you may all return to your myriad posts assumming you have some knowledge as to the ‘Why!’
I am going to go catch up on the other topics.
Oh, and thanks Jackie, you saved me a lot of typing with your post.
I am a maritimer and Duffy was right it takes a lot to have down homers change political colors, If anything, I think he might of helped Mr.MacKay.
By KH on 04.14.07 10:07 am
This argument is not supported by the facts. Two of the Pictou constituencies provincially are currently held by the NDP. Another part of the riding is traditionally Liberal but supports a popular PC Cabinet Minister. There is a large block of swing voters in that riding and many other Maritime ridings. In PEI, where Duffy originates and where once this might have been true, the federal riding are all Liberal while the Progressive Conservatives hold most of the provincial seats.
The merger of the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservative Parties did more to deprive voters of political choice than does the Dion/May agreement. For them the “democratic” argument for them has little validity.
When it comes to whether anyone knew about this, I was at a non-political event a month ago at which both a Liberal provincial and federal member were in attendance and at that point the Liberals were openly discussing the possiblity they might not run a candidate against May.
Many Progressive Conservatives decided to “give Harper a chance” and that group may be “soft” MacKay supporters because they are not happy with MacKay turning the party over to the Canadian Alliance. Some provincial PCs also feel that MacKay has been a failure as the Nova Scotia representative in the cabinet.
Anyone who has worked in a Nova Scotia election recently knows that anything can happen because the old party loyalties are no longer as important as they once were.
Hope this makes sense, I have trouble expressing my thoughts in English when I am upset.
By Jacquie Gavarkovs on 04.14.07 4:28 pm
Deep breaths Jaccquie . Deep breaths .
As opening the constitution requires two thirds of the Provinces and Territories agreeing it will never,ever happen .
Dumont is whistling in the wind and trying to hold a pistol to the head of the rest of Canada .
Oh, and thanks Jackie, you saved me a lot of typing with your post.
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.14.07 4:50 pm
Your welcome Bill :
Still a little freaked out about my warning Hogan against baiting you in the bears den . And then, Boom ! Both barrels .
Way to go Bill .
Did you see my message about Jackie Chan and Jet Li doing a chop-socky film together . Something about the monkey King .
Should be a blast .
ROTFLMAO
Jackie my exact words when Mulroney began his campaign “it will never happen” But it did happen and now we have Harpo that would sell his soul to win a majority. I sure hope you are right. Central Nova is perfect for Madame May, brilliant move.
“It is time to have a national leader of a political party in the House of Commons working for the people of Atlantic Canada.” –Elizabeth May, in giving her reasons for running in Central Nova.
Let us not forget for one moment that Atlantic Canada already had a national leader of a political party representing Central Nova while Peter MacKay was the national leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada before he went into kahoots with the Canadian Alliance.
I ask you, in all fairness, is there now not a similar concern that we have a national leader of a political party in Canada, the Green Party, who has gone into kahoots with the Liberals?
Perhaps we should re-phrase the statement to say that “It is time to have a national leader of a political party in the House of Commons working for the people of Atlantic Canada without selling out to another political party in order to form a national government.”
At this point, the question is whether both the Green and the Red (Liberal) parties can be in kahoots, and still retain their unique, distinct identities of both parties in the eye of the common people like you and I.
By PJW on 04.14.07 4:21 pm
Typical Liberal – when confronted, try to turn it around. What has Baird got to do with Coderre’s comment about O’Connor?
Of course, Baird is a fighter – just like many in all 4 parties. But, when Coderre is that rude and disrespectful to a person, who served our country, I draw a line! Coderre owes O’Connor an apology.
And Judy, then you can call Liberal Bill Graham the same – is that what you are calling Bill Graham? Afterall, he started the procurement process.
Protection of our universal, publicly funded health care system is one of THE most important issues. Isn’t it? A good reason to see that the Dion/May decision is an important and desperately needed one. It offers protection.
As I commented the other day, in my opinion, the Income Trust issue fits perfectly into the NAU and its SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership). I wonder if our water rights on the oil and gas properties are acquired by foreigners at the same time. Surely the oil and gas properties have water on them and other resources as well. The SPP is truly an Octopus from Hell. There doesn’t seem to be any area/aspect of our dear country that isn’t affected.
Now take a look at health care. Our health care exemption under NAFTA, only remains exempt if our health care system is fully publicly funded. Pick a politician, federal, provincial, whatever and look at their record of meaningful support and legislation for a fully publicly funded system. Can you find any? In this province of Ontario, George Smitherman (Liberal health minister) spent $1million taxpayer dollars for the ‘citizens panel on organ donation’. (Peter Kormos (provincial NDP) is always rattling on about organ donation as well). Instead of organ donation being a choice, they would rather have a negative optioning way of fulfilling the need for organs. (I guess they think that individuals aren’t exercising their freedom of choice unless they sign the consent.) But the real question of ‘negative optioning’ organ donation lies deeper than what they portray the dilemma to be. As it turns out, Mr. Smitherman is now proposing that people be paid for live donations. They are waiting until after the Ontario Fall Election to announce anything further on the panel decisions.
In light of the “for profit” clinics opening everywhere (remember the NAFTA rule) and lack of timely access for the everyday person in the public system to meaningful, up-to-date diagnostics and treatment, our organs become another resource commodity. Remember the NAFTA rule. This truly lends a new meaning to the term ‘factory farming’ – unless our universal healthcare system is protected from privatization and repaired. To simplify, this means that the elite just might receive our organs before the average citizen does. Become informed!!!
Maybe a moral here? Don’t accept carrots – Canadians are NOT rabbits.
The Green candidate in my riding is very excited with this deal.
A suggestion for Garth Could we have an analysis of the costs of this war in Afghanistan, not just lives but the dollars. I think the public needs to know
So for those Liberals out there, may want to read the Liberal Party of Canada constitution.
Chapter 15, section 58 states:
“Each EDA must hold a candidate selection meeting to select a candidate of the Party for election to the House of Commons at the time specified by, and in accordance with, the rules made by the National Election Readiness Committee under Section 60.”
So I would ascertain that “Each EDA must” to mean that each 308 EDAs must hold candidate selection meeting to select a candidate. “Must” doesn’t mean “should” or “would be nice”. Did the Central Nova EDA hold such a meeting to select Elizabeth May as a Liberal candidate for that EDA? I don’t think so.
So Stephane Dion thumbed his nose at his party’s constitution. Why?
Gees Catherine, you are 100% wrong, I am not a Liberal and have stated about 100 times on here I am not voting for the Libs or the Cons…Secondly, Mr. Coderre was out of line, no question, I also think many times Mr. Baird is as well. But I understand why you wouldn’t be able to admit that. I personally think most members of the House are out of line most of the time and there needs to be some civility there, I also think we need a totally independent government without the party system. Right now we have no representation, we have to vote for party platforms which all have lies in them, and our so called representatives are told how to vote. so there you go…if you would like to continue believing I am a Liberal please do so…you will regardless of what I have to say, that much I have discerned. Have a good evening!
If you are not voting Lib or Con, then how? Do you just vote for teh person you wish to be CEO of Canada, or does the person representing your area actually matter? Tell us. — Garth
Well Garth, I would be happy to, I intend to vote for an independent candidate in Halton if there is such a person, if not I am voting against the Cons and Libs for the reasons I have ststed previously. I don’t support dictatorship and the lack of free votes promote just that. I think when you sat as an independent, I was one of the first to e mail you and pledge my support. Cons are to self righteous for me, and the Libs have not sufficiently answered my brown envelope questions.
I may be forced to support the Green Party but only after reading their platform which I haven’t received as yet. I hope that makes sense to you.
You may support a party whose platform you haven’t see yet? And do you know the candidate? Is your decision crafted and created by the MSM? Have you ever corresponded with another MP the way you have with me? Have I disappointed you with my performance or my beliefs and causes? Not that I’m asking for your vote – which I am not – but your breezy approach to this stuff disturbs me more than a little. — Garth
No..I would have voted for you as an independent…I have a lot of respect for you, but the Liberal party violated my trust and I haven’t had a satisfactory response regarding the brown envelopes, who got them, are there sitting members who benefited. I have no answers. If you were to vote freely on all bills, I would definitely vote for you (that would make you independent) but you know that is not going to happen, in fact, rarely will it happen. So while you make think my approach is breezy, like a lot of Canadians, we vote people out not in.
And yes I may support a party whose platform I am yet to read but you have my word, I will read it before I vote. But I will vote. And I wish you good luck.
We all may need it. — Garth
By Muskoka Bill: And now the link…Want to know WHY Elizabeth May is running in Peter MacKay’s riding? Here are the reasons in Elizabeth’s own words from her own blog.
Thanks so much for this link, Bill. I have copy-pasted it and am sending it to my family and friends. Nothing like hearing it “from the horse’s mouth” instead of from the other end of the horse.
I kind of understand PJW’s position. It’s true that there is no party that will 1) Represent 100% of our values 2) Implement 100% of their promises.
Of course, dropping out of the system is the same as quitting a job where your coworker is an a*hole. It doesn’t affect him at all, on the contrary, with you gone, he can now do whatever he wants.
It is great to be liberal now that we are green to. I am so so excited. Now we can all smoke pot and commit crimes and not get punished. What a great day this is. Lets pull our troops home and dismantel our military. Lets all live in peace shall we.
I was not aware a reporter was even there. — Garth
Here’s the link:
http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=486943&catname=Local+News&classif=
Or just Google Chatham Daily News. You made the front page and the reporter makes it sound as if he actually talked to you. Maybe he was just cutting and pasting from Osprey News.
Paul Wells has some very interesting commentary on Dion which is worth a read. I won’t break copyright but just post the link
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=pos&eid=43
I kind of understand PJW’s position. It’s true that there is no party that will 1) Represent 100% of our values 2) Implement 100% of their promises.
Of course, dropping out of the system is the same as quitting a job where your coworker is an a*hole. It doesn’t affect him at all, on the contrary, with you gone, he can now do whatever he wants.
JMcCain…does a vote for someone other than Libs or Cons mean we have dropped from the system? I hope we can change it and get rid of all the …….!
Interesting Abstract here for Separatists to ponder.
http://cpsa-acsp.ca/template_e.cfm?folder=conference&yr=2004&page_name=abstract.cfm&id=304
In the last couple of days, I have visited a lot of blogs looking for opinions on the Dion-May deal to not run candidates in each others ridings.
Guess what? I have yet to see a Liberal complaining that they do not have a candidate in Central Nova. It seems that the Conservatives are much more concerned that their Liberal “friends” might be disenfranchised.
McKay has NOT represented Central Nova, Nova Scotia, or the Maritimes well.
He sold out the PC’s. He tried to defend Flaherty’s budget that took the Atlantic Accord away from Nova Scotia. He stood by as Trenton Works is being closed. He stood by as Halifax had to give up on its bid for the Commonwealth Games due to lack of Federal support.
He told Alexa McDonaugh to go back to her knitting and called his former girlfriend a dog. Peter needs to get the message that sexism is not tolerated in the 21st century.
I wish Liz May the best of luck.
Al: Good ideas, except for the breaking laws one.
JCLH,
Yes, I saw your message.
Something about the monkey King .
Should be a blast .
Jackie is doing a film on Harper and his Ministers? Will there be massive Spanking fgoing on? I certainly hope they have lots of Bounty paper towels handy! What is the proposed rating…XXX? What will his church say? My oh my! such deparate developments in such wonderful times, eh?
Oh, and for all those living in the delusion that the U.S is a haven of worldwide, culturally acclimated intellectuals, please do watch ‘Borat!’
Warning!!! You may encounter reality!
JMcCain…does a vote for someone other than Libs or Cons mean we have dropped from the system? I hope we can change it and get rid of all the …….!
Not at all. Only not voting does. As you can see the greens are making a lot of noise and they do influence agendas.
It is great to be liberal now that we are green to. I am so so excited. Now we can all smoke pot and commit crimes and not get punished. What a great day this is. Lets pull our troops home and dismantel our military. Lets all live in peace shall we.
By Al on 04.14.07 7:41 pm
Nah,it is great to be a neo-con and tell blatant lies to senior citizens about Income Trusts so their portfolios are reduced by two-thirds .
Promise 250,000, day care spaces and not create one .
Extend a stupid mission to Afghanistan by two years with little or no debate .
Promote a party hack,Michael Fortier, to cabinet and place him in the unelected Senate .
Give an immensely important cabinet post to a complete idiot, David Emerson, so he can sell Canada’s Softwood Lumber producers down the river to US interests.
Promote crime legislation that will never pass the SCOC including jailing ten years olds .
Et cetera
Yea, it really is good to be a Liberal .
Hello Garth I’m new to your Site and I am enjoying very much.I Also live in Campbellville.I Never Voted for you in the Last Election Not because of You I Just couldn’t get Past the ICK Factor with Harper.I’m a LEFT leaning moderate voter so you will have my Vote Next Time,butYou would have gotten it even if you had gone GREEN.I may Not agree with You on everything ,but I agree with Most and You have Proven that you Work for and With you Voters Most of All You Listen.IMO I’m the type of Voter that Dion and May are Courting. If Layton and the CPC are slinging the Mud this has to be a Good Move.
AL taking a long draft of Kool-Aide .
Lana,
Thanks so much for this link, Bill.
You are most welcome. I leave the conclusions to those who actually read the statements.
Why does the perpetual virgin (and proud of it) Jason Kenney need police officers both uniformed and plain clothes at a Town Hall meeting to protect him .
Guess he figured out that the guy with the rope wasn’t tying up his horse .
Couple of hundred people cheered loudly when a guy slammed Kenney as being incompetent .
Conservative MP Jason Kenney was berated by dozens of his Calgary constituents angry over Ottawa’s new tax on income trusts during a town hall meeting on Saturday.
Police watched over the crowd while plain-clothed officers sat amongst the attendees.
People pressed Kenney over the federal government’s flip-flop on income trust taxation by constituents worried about what kind of effect such a tax could have on the economic future of the country.
During his election campaign, Prime Minister Stephen Harper made the promise that if elected he would not propose new taxes for income trusts.
Many who showed up for the Calgary meeting had lost substantial amounts from their retirement savings.
“You lost the trust of Canadians, Albertans, Calgarians and worst yet, your constituents,” one man said during the meeting.
“This government was elected to bring clarity to parliament and honesty. We are really getting nothing but lies and more hidden agendas,” another fired at Kennedy.
Kenney responded by defending the new tax: “It was a difficult decision and it wasn’t taken lightly. But there is a clear rational in the national interest to ensure corporations pay their fair share.”
Many in the audience pledged they would never vote Conservative again as a result of the new tax.
“Lies and lies and lies. The whole government, your prime minister is a liar and I think people are getting tired of this,” another attendee said.
Kenney responded after the meeting by saying sometimes promises have to be broken.
“We are doing our level best to keep all of your election commitments even though we are in a minority. From time to time, things change and governments have to change with the circumstance and that was the case here,” Kenney said.
The Canadian Association of Income Trust Investors said it would continue to press MP’s at meetings like this in an effort to prevent the Conservative’s Tax Fairness Plan from being voted into law.
The coalition have begun an aggressive marketing campaign in order to make income trusts a key issue in any upcoming federal election.
Income trusts are businesses that pay little or no corporate tax. Instead, corporations that convert to trusts pay most of their cash flows to investors in monthly distributions, who in turn pay taxes on this income.
Never vote Conservative again? In Calgary? Baahahaha. Good one Jackie.
JCLH,
Did Kenney get clearance from Fearless leader to say that?
A media report in yesterday’s Journal de Montréal suggests that Liberals in Quebec aren’t happy with Mr. Dion’s leadership. According to a senior Quebec Liberal party official, supporters in that province are hoping for a federal election this spring so they can lose and begin the task of rebuilding the party without Mr. Dion. (Journal de Montreal, page 7, April 12, 2007).
Now that he has angered many of his own party members and endorsed the Green Party’s policies, Mr. Dion will have to answer some tough questions:
Does he agree that Canada should pull out of NAFTA as the Green Party does?
Does he agree that the budget of the Canadian Forces should be reduced by 50% as the Green Party does?
Does he agree that Canada should consider pulling out of NATO and abandon our allies in Afghanistan?
Does he agree with the Green Party candidate in Vancouver-Kingsway who described the murder of almost 3,000 people in the 9-11 terrorist attacks as “beautiful�
A federal Green party candidate in Vancouver-Kingsway is standing behind a controversial editorial he wrote more than four years ago in which he describes the falling of the World Trade Center twin towers as “beautiful.”
The editorial, entitled, A Revolting Confession, was first published on Nov. 28, 2002 in an alternative newspaper, The Republic of East Vancouver, which Kevin Potvin founded.
“When I saw the first tower cascade down into that enormous plume of dust and paper, there was a little voice inside me that said, ‘Yeah!’ When the second tower came down the same way, that little voice said, ‘Beautiful!’ When the visage of the Pentagon appeared on the TV with a gaping and smoking hole in its side, that little voice had nearly taken me over, and I felt an urge to pump my fist in the air,” Mr. Potvin wrote in the editorial.
The 44-year-old bookstore owner, who ran for municipal office in Vancouver in 2005, said he at first withheld the editorial, publishing it only after he was approached by others who felt the same way.
Let us fervently hope and pray that Elizabeth May punts this loose canon before any more damage has been done.
Endorsing this candidate an only hurt the entire Green Team, and what hurts the Greens will now hurt the Liberals as well since they are working in partnership in Central Nova.
The ripple affect of these loose and untimely comments could be enormous.
Control yourself, cowboy. Dion has just agreed not to run a candidate against Elizabeth May, not to share DNA with her. — Garth
Eh? What’s this?
ADQ’s Dumont open to constitutional talks
There are so many similarities between the Green and the NDP party policy platforms that it would make more sense for these two parties to merge in Central Nova, and then they would have a legitimate chance at defeating Peter MacKay.
This way, the NDP vote will be split with the Green even more, effectively assuring MacKay of re-election.
This is great news, that Dumont may be willing to lead the charge in Quebec to sign our Quebecois family into the larger family of the Canadian Constitution.
It is only too bad that the charge for bringing Quebec into the constitutional family had to come from the far right rather than from the more left-leaning Liberals.
Garth, I’m getting in line for my share of hell from you -
I have no problem voting for a party whose platform I haven’t seen, nor for a candidate I do not know from Adam. This is the 39th Parliament we theoretically have elected on platforms and personal representation, and where are we? Government by PM/PMO, potted plants, polls – and QP.
I will hold my nose and vote for the party that has a chance to replace a sitting government that needs replacing, as I did in the case of Clark, Turner, Mulroney, Campbell (sorry, Garth) and Martin.
Platforms largely are irrelevant in practice. Politics still is the art of the possible, and I will vote for the guy(s) that – in my opinion – will screw this up the least with extraneous considerations (such as ideology or support base.) As noted, we’re at the pinnacle of 39 federal election campaigns, and there is no point to doing the same thing if you don’t like how it has worked out.
Never vote Conservative again? In Calgary? Baahahaha. Good one Jackie.
By KPK on 04.14.07 10:41 pm
Now pay attention here KPK . I didn’t say that . It is in the body of the article and I saw the clip on TeeVee .
It was spoken by an irate member of the TH meeting .
I know you have problems with reading comprehension so I thought I’d point that out .
Do you understand now ?
Thought not .
Man, you get dumber by the minute .
JCLH,
Did Kenney get clearance from Fearless leader to say that?
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.14.07 10:53 pm
Don’t think so Bill . I believe Mr. Kenney was flying solo .
Imagine this twit is proud to be a virgin ?
This is great news, that Dumont may be willing to lead the charge in Quebec to sign our Quebecois family into the larger family of the Canadian Constitution.
Never gonna happen .
Mike, How about the truth for a change??
Does he agree that Canada should pull out of NAFTA as the Green Party does?
–The Greens are calling for the use of the 6 month notice to withdraw in order to re-negotiate a real fair trade agreement that is not so easily breached with impunity and that the U.S. Congress can not toy around with to satisfy protectionist lobby groups.
Does he agree that the budget of the Canadian Forces should be reduced by 50% as the Green Party does?
–This former resolution was cancelled at the last Summer’s Green Party convention.
Does he agree that Canada should consider pulling out of NATO and abandon our allies in Afghanistan?
–We have never said we would pull out of Afghanistan. We have said we would re-balance the mission and would seek to engage U.N/NATO forces from Non-Christian Heritage Countries in Southern Afghanistan to provide security after our current deployment ends. Canada’s 3D mission to Afghanistan would continue but would be re-balanced to increase the chances of a successful outcome.
Does he agree with the Green Party candidate in Vancouver-Kingsway who described the murder of almost 3,000 people in the 9-11 terrorist attacks as “beautiful�
Elizabeth May has made it clear that these statements are totally unacceptable and is reviewing the situation now. Give her a chance to follow fair process before you jump to conclusions.
Eric Walton- President Kingston & the Islands Green Party
Yes Mike, great news on the face of it, I think I will hold off the cheering until I hear the cost however. I am not sure there is enough in the federal treasury to satisfy Mr. Dumont and Quebecers, of course, we could always give them Alberta?
This deal should not be considered “cooperation”, but rather “manipulation”. If party leaders were to ever impose such a paternalistic deal on my riding, removing my option of a full choice of candidates, I would be furious. What an insult to the 10,000 Liberal voters of Central Nova, some of who worked as volunteers, to be discarded by their own party.
Given new election financing laws, and the Green Party qualifying for a sizable portion of these public funds, I feel that the GP can successfully run an election campaign on their own, without requiring the Liberal Party to take this manipulative action.
What the purpose of this is, then, is a mystery. The Greens had enough finances to be able to run an okay campaign and possibly win a seat. A mystery. Perhaps the lawyer, May, and the professor, Dion, enjoy the feeling of power they get by dictating voting options to those they consider incapable of otherwise making the “correct” decision. What snobs.
You offered proof. I replied I would like proof. You replied, but didn’t give proof. What gives? Don’t offer what you can’t (or won’t) produce, I would humbly say .
If you are a member of the Halton Federal Liberal Association, the proof is yours for the taking. We have the notification announcement, and the distribution channels, well documented (the meeting was also announced on this blog a week in advance). If you are not a party member, then call Judy Longfield at the Liberal Party of Canada, Ontario, in Toronto, and ask her to reveal whatever the party wishes to about this process. I am the candidate, and did not run or control this process. I just got nominated. By the way, what is your interest in this? Do tell. — Garth
Garth,
further to my 11:40 PM last night, let me put a problem to which you cannot give a specific answer because it involves a specific person.
The just-nominated Liberal candidate in my riding is Penny Collenette. Impressive credentials – lawyer, Hill experience, business as well as law professor at UofO, obviously a smart and serious lady.
However, she also was Chretien’s Appointments Secretary (maitre d’ at the trough,) and is the wife of a Chretien cabinet minister. Now, why would a smart lady established in the legal and academic professions want to serve as a humble MP, albeit with cabinet prospects?
She strikes me as an “apparatchik”. Represent the riding, yes, but mainly a party soldier in the service of the Party. The Lib candidate in the previous two elections was Richard Mahoney, who did have apparachik written all over him as an identified member of Martin’s inner circle. Since he has been unsucessful twice in capturing Ottawa Centre, he is going to try again in a riding across the River in Pontiac. Don’t know if that was his own choice, or that of the Party, but definitely a party soldier.
So, again the LPC is offering me a representative on the Hill whose prime function will be to serve the LPC. How can I reconcile these conflicting ends without suspending reason? Can you resolve this dilema for me? Right now, I am inclined to vote for the sitting MP, who is NDP, inexperienced and strikes me as a bit of a stumblebum on the Floor, but who carries the least baggage. And having no potential, all he can do is represent the riding and hold a government’s feet to the fire.
Herb I don’t know what a stumblebum is but I am sure that it must be a fitting name for 45-50% of all those elected to the Commons. Please vote for an intelligent person qualified to serve.
Herb, I agree with your entire comment but the part that really frost my cornflakes is him running in a different riding where he might win. Does that not just seem wrong, I truly believe that your family and yourself must reside in the riding you run in. Not just a postal address or an empty apt. If we need to start a campaign about something it should be about riding’s of convenience and the parachuting of Candiates with the only exception being of new Party Leaders in By-Elections not general elections. And only to get them into the house so that they can be judged by the population as to the ablities.
Eric Walton,
Actually, Elizabeth May stated publically on the news last night that she ‘will not sign Potvin’s nomination papers as the Green Party Leader!’ I think that says all there to say regarding her position on Potvin’s assininely proferred opinions regarding the 9/11 WTC.
I am thankful you posted your comment as it is very nice to have someone in the real know comment on the GP activities.
For those who would wish to actually KNOW something other than old beliefs, and superstitions about the Green party of Canada they may peruse The Green party of Canada’s website!
MarkG,
What the purpose of this is, then, is a mystery.
No mystery…Read Dion’s and May’s statement and reasons.
Wouldn’t it be nice if our so-called news media actually bothered to report the news rather than merely pontificate their opinions on what has been said?
Wouldn’t it be nice if our so-called news media actually bothered to report the news rather than merely pontificate their opinions on what has been said?
Bill..that would require reading ability!
Right now, I am inclined to vote for the sitting MP, who is NDP, inexperienced and strikes me as a bit of a stumblebum on the Floor, but who carries the least baggage. And having no potential, all he can do is represent the riding and hold a government’s feet to the fire.
Herb…seriously, does it matter, they all vote as told by their party leader so I guess that means we are all being asked to vote for the CEO as Garth puts it. So choose your poison I guess, I just wish we had an alternative!
You offered proof… so naturally I thought you would produce it, not refer me here and there. What’s it to me? A concerned citizen, is all.
If you join the Halton Liberal association, you will get access to all documents. Otherwise I fail to see how any of this is your business. Are you disputing my nomination? If so, on what grounds. Do tell. By the way, where do you live? — Garth
PJW,
Bill..that would require reading ability!
Oops! I knew I was forgetting something when I made that comment! So sorry. Thanks for the backup Phil!
This deal should not be considered “cooperationâ€, but rather “manipulationâ€. If party leaders were to ever impose such a paternalistic deal on my riding, removing my option of a full choice of candidates, I would be furious. What an insult to the 10,000 Liberal voters of Central Nova, some of who worked as volunteers, to be discarded by their own party.
Given new election financing laws, and the Green Party qualifying for a sizable portion of these public funds, I feel that the GP can successfully run an election campaign on their own, without requiring the Liberal Party to take this manipulative action.
What the purpose of this is, then, is a mystery. The Greens had enough finances to be able to run an okay campaign and possibly win a seat. A mystery. Perhaps the lawyer, May, and the professor, Dion, enjoy the feeling of power they get by dictating voting options to those they consider incapable of otherwise making the “correct†decision. What snobs.
By MarkG on 04.15.07 6:26
The new Conservative Party was created through a whole range of manipulative actions. These were far more questionable than openly not running a candidate such as the backroom deal that paid around half a million dollars of MacKay’s campaign debts. How would you like to have the money you donated to help build the Progressive Conservative Party go to another party?
It also took away the choice for thousands of Progressive Conservatives all across this county. When this happened we were furious but there was nothing we could do about it.
I assume the only party that you could vote for is the NDP if you are comfortable with the undemocratic internal weight given to the unions.
There is no party in this country that is “lily white” on the issue of manipulation and democracy. I would far rather give up my chance to vote in one federal election for a Progressive Conservative Party than never have that choice again.
You have to put the issue in perspective.
I am the candidate, and did not run or control this process. I just got nominated. By the way, what is your interest in this? Do tell. — Garth
By deb on 04.15.07 8:53 am
Deb, is just a nosey Parker disturber that hasn’t a clue .
Can you say neo-con ‘truth squad’member.
Halton
Well then, join and be illuminated! — Garth
Yea, verily I say unto you join the Halton Liberal riding association and be bathed in the holy light of goodness and right; knowledge shall be yours sister .
“A beam of light will fill your head and you will remember all things said by every good man this world has ever known”
Preaching on a Sunday .
So far the Liberals are not attractive to me. Also, on this blog if someone doesn’t toe your line of thinking, they are insulted. It becomes tiresome. Isn’t there a saying something about attracting more with honey than vinegar.
Then why are you being acidic in questioning whether I was legitimately nominated as a candidate? Do you doubt me? Do you think I would do anything to act other than honourably in this open and public process? Do tell, Deb. — Garth
I heard that Liberal members were not informed of the nomination mtg. I asked you about it… you asked if I wanted proof. I said yes, but you didn’t supply it. Now you say I am acidic.
Members were informed. End of story. — Garth
Members were informed. End of story. — Garth
Inquisition completed by Tomas de Torquemada .
Wheeew ! Thought she’d never shut up .
JCLH,
Wheeew ! Thought she’d never shut up .
Me too! Sheesh! All day long. Garth has far more tolerance than I would have had.
JCLH,
Wheeew ! Thought she’d never shut up .
Me too! Sheesh! All day long. Garth has far more tolerance than I would have had.
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.15.07 6:16 pm
No kidding Bill . The man has the patience of a saint .
JCLH,
How does this sound to you? Saint Garth?
Personally, I like Sir Garth…has a wonderful Camelot ring to it, Knights of the Round Table, Excaliber, and all that stuff!
Maybe we should be writing a few emails to our GG, who has appreciation for those who truly have made major contribution to Canada, and Garth has made far more than most who receive the Order of Canada IMHO!
I am being quite serious and sincere in saying BTW!
No, the patience shown is on my side. You say, offer proof, it isn’t given, but the insults are flowing freely. I thought there was supposed to be some sort of ban on this type of thing.
Gratuitous insults are banned. Earned ones are always appreciated. — Garth
Update on my personal representation problem -
Richard Mahoney did not win the Liberal nomination in Pontiac, being defeated by a local farmer. (Mahoney does have a cottage in the riding.)
Money quote from the winner of the Lib nomination: “… it came down to, do you want the person who knows the everyday people or the person who knows the power structure?” (Ottawa Citizen, 16 Apr, p. D2)
Puts the issue nicely, but the obvious “right” answer (the person who knows the everyday people) harbours three problems: 1.) it may not effect a desired change of government; 2.) it probably will produce another potted plant MP; and 3.) nomination meetings could be dominated by last-minute particular issue/group $10 party memberships that have nothing to do with support for party or policies. (The last point should be fixed by the parties themselves as unnecessary potential for abuse. The fact that they haven’t done so indicates that they have an interest in perpetuating it for their own purposes.)
Simple, isn’t it.
Herb,
Sounds like you almost described my riding. We have Parachute Artist’e ‘Two-Tier’ Tony Clement, a, then, Brampton resident with a cottage in Port Sydney (a nice little village of ‘800 very nice people, and one old Grouch!’ The actual sign posted at all entrances BTW), who replaced the other loser Conservative candidate whose greatest achivement was publically stating ‘I’m a pretty impressive guy. I can’t understand why people didn’t vote for me?’
Then we had Andy Mitchell, our former Liberal MP, who after 12 long years in Ottawa had had enough. he has left politics and still is regarded as a gentleman and honest. He did, however, make that fatal error of becoming a parrot of the PMO. Funny how people still expect to actually be represented, not merely dictated to from the PM via their MP.
Then we had an NDP candidate, who is vying again to run in the coming election, but being contested by another Dipper. Seems the last election the candidate felt it was more important to carryon her vacation plans than campaign. The voters felt much differently.
Then we had Glen Hodgson the Green candidate. The most promising, articulate, honest, and hard working of them all. We look forward to sending Glen to Ottawa and sending T-TTC job seeking. He made a good showing considering the riding’s demographics, and newness of the GPO. I think he will be making a far stronger showing and winning due to PMSH failed policies in so many areas I, for one, have lost count, and Elizabeth May’s excellent, open, and honest leadership.
It will be even more interesting after October 10th when Ontario decides on incorporating the Mixed Member Proportional (MMP) system over the current FPTP. What is really nice about this proposal is it was generated by the citizenry of Ontario.
OK, I’ve learned a few things. One, don’t expect a reasonable reply even when one is offered. Two, if there appears to be a difference of opinion from Garth, prepare to be insulted. I find the insults slightly amusing, but small-minded. All thoughts on this blog must converge. By the way, why did Jackie Chan’s Left Hand say that he doesn’t always have time to reply? Is he an official ‘replier’ on this blog? If so, I would suggest you find someone a little more smooth.
You received your answer. You want inside Lib party stuff? Join the party. — Garth
Terrific decision – doing politics differently! This comes just in time when Canadians are jaded and fed up with the existing system which is unheathly for us, for the country and for our poor planet. Way to go Stephane Dion!
Anne Streeter – Montreal
Muskoka,
sorry, I can’t share your enthusiasm, but my reservations about MMR after experience with this system in Europe stand. The parties will reign supreme, arrange the attainment or retention of power among themselves, and the voters’ ability to throw out a government will be very limited.
In the German-speaking countries, sometimes are characterized as “Stimmvieh” in the press – animals let out of the pen periodically to cast a vote. Does that tell you something about the importance of individual voters in that system?
Herb,
That is what the Citizen’s committee made as their recommendation after reviewing and researching all possible alternatives. We get to vote on the matter October 10th.
I like that part the best. They did all the research, posted their findings online, and I can summate it all and vote fer’n or agin’n the measure.
I appreciate your comment on the MMP system however.
Editing my 11:35 AM –
“voters” is missing in the first line of the second para, which should read “In the German-speaking countries, voters sometimes are characterized ….”
The verbatim translation of “Stimmvieh” would be “voting cattle”.
Herb,
Does that tell you something about the importance of individual voters in that system?
Actually NO! It tells me that such comparisons of humans to animals is still alive, well, and popular with some people in Germany, and here.
Excuse me Herb, but I must ask. Is this your shoe?
No, the patience shown is on my side. You say, offer proof, it isn’t given, but the insults are flowing freely. I thought there was supposed to be some sort of ban on this type of thing.
Gratuitous insults are banned. Earned ones are always appreciated. — Garth
By deb on 04.16.07 1:57 am
Garth, that is not true. I have seen you allow Jackie Chan’s left hand to post that people belong to Goebbel’s truth squad, which is a direct reference to Nazis. Yet, you allowed it to be posted and not only that, you allowed this poster to use insult after insult to many posters. Deb is right and you are either not seeing the light or you’re lying. Flippant remarks like your’s above, just demonstrates that you have no regard for those people who are being insulted over and over again by the same poster.
Ah, my favourite ankle-biter, Sean, still desperately trying to make an impression on a local ankle. And yes, it’s intended as an insult, since you neither operate with nor respond to fact or logic.
And while I’m back on this thread -
Muskoka,
I’m not missing any shoes, but can you spell n-a-i-v-e?
Taking the example of the proposed MMR in Ontario, you think you are going to change the baneful effects of party dominance by making a third of MLAs responsible directly and solely to their political parties for their jobs and careers?
Having seen the fruits of that tree, I will vote against MMR in the referendum.
Herb,
My point is that their was a citizen’s committee formed, they reviewed all the possible remedies to our FPTP system, and by democratic process MMP is their recommendation.
While I totally appreciate you insights, I was not supportive of your reference to Germany using animals references to voters as a valid reason for not considering MMP.
Glad to know your shoes are all present and accounted for…I thought they were, but had to ask.
We, Ontario voters, will have our say October 10th, and that is a great deal more than our Parliament or Legislature has been willing to do, even though the McGuinty government opened the door. They have, at least, given the people the forum for the issue to be decided democratically, and for that they deserve credit.
I will review it myself before casting an Aye! I decided to let the committee do its work and know from regular experience how committee recommendations work. I deal them with them weekly actually. I do have other things to be attentive to like my business, and such. Have a good day and keep to good comments coming. Thank you.