Have something to tell MPs about income trusts? Let’s do it together Tuesday morning.
Monday, and I am back in the House. The five-hour drive from the riding this morning was appalling, as a major snow storm swept across the country east of Toronto, north to Ottawa and on to Montreal. The 401 was littered with cars and 18-wheelers in the ditches, the visibility non-existent and the road surface a sheet of pitted ice, with six inches of fresh, soupy snow reaching out to haul in unsuspecting tires.
But I made it, called Dorothy to report my success, and slid my way to a parking spot behind the Library of Parliament. As I type this, Alexa McDonough is on her feet tearing apart of the federal budget for its backhanded treatment of Atlantic Canada. Conservative MPs Rick Dykstra and Dean del Mastro – both rookie members of the finance committee – are heckling her.
Well, I plan on speaking on ths topic tomorrow morning and would like to focus on one aspect – the impact on Canadian investors of the income trust broken promise. I continue to be amazed at how the mainstream media have shucked off this theft of the greatest amount of private savings in history, swallowing Flaherty’s flawed assertion that this is a Bay Street story, and that trust investors somehow had it coming to them.
Of course, it is all made more desperate and tragic by the firesale takeover of Canadian trusts by foreign investors (two more announced today), which means the Government of Canada – which justified the trust attack on the basis of lost taxes – will collect zero taxes on these entities. Mr. Flaherty’s trump argument has proven to be a steaming heap of digested vegetable matter.
But the most egregious aspect of the income trust debacle is the rape of private savings by politicians who promised they would never be touched. It is my view that MPs like Dykstra (St. Catharines) and del Mastro (Peterborough), along with their committee colleague Mike Wallace (Burlington), should be held acountable for this. I hope voters do so.
In the meantime, I’d like to know if you would contribute to my speech in the House of Commons tomorrow morning? If you have a message you’d like MPs to hear, then please send it along, and I’ll work it into my remarks. After all, this is your house. It belongs to you, not the politicians. Your voice should be heard. I will see it is.
113 comments ↓
Kenney held a constituency meeting last Saturday. I attended, and here’s my comment:
We worked hard to elect a Conservative government, and were rewarded with betrayal. Harper promised one thing, and did another. That’s a lie. A 35 billion-dollar lie. Calling manure a rose doesn’t change the smell. Kenney spoke a lot of ‘rose’ at the meeting, but few were fooled. He and Steve need to listen to Ralph Klein and recant, repent, and reimburse investors and seniors. You can’t reward lying politicians by voting for them. It encourages them to continue the practise and do worse.
I don’t remember reading in the parties platform anywhere that you had decided to decimate the nest egg of hundreds of thousands of senior Canadians .
This is despicable behaviour from a government that touts itself as being accountable. To whom ?
Certainly not the electorate you tossed them overboard and then threw them a cement life preserver .
Why all the secrecy surrounding this so called ‘tax leakage’ that is also in the realm of the mythological .Like the unicorn .
Eighteen pages of blacked out documents and we are to believe that your so called government is accountable and open.
Talk and words are cheap as paper never refused pen and ink .
This is going to rebound on this government (?) in a huge and meaningful way .
Just because the MSM has ignored the issue remember Canada is the most wired country on the planet and people know what is going on .
You stole our money thirty five billion dollars of it and you have the nerve to criticize the Liberals for losing twenty million .
I think you had better rethink this great stupidity now
And further.Not one economist,money manager or financial expert agrees with this legislation .
In fact they believe that Flaherty and Harpo must have been suffering from brain cramps when they designated It’s to be wiped out to save some seventy million dollars a year .
One economist was so taken aback he said it must have been a mistake and that the government(?) would fix the problem before introducing this draconian,machiavellian piece of rubbish that will destroy the income levels of hundreds of thousands of senior citizens.
I urge the minister to recant and rewrite this bill to cauterize the bleeding before our seniors start throwing themselves out of windows as they can no longer financially cope .
Garth – do or did you , your wife, members of your family or individuals you counselled as an investment advisor hold Income Trusts as part of your stock portfolio?
I have no idea, as my wife and I have had a discretionary investment portfolio for more than ten years and make no decisions regarding it. This sounds awfully accusatory, worthy of the prime minister. — Garth
I don’t have a message as my portfolio did not include this, I am widely diversified, but not in trust. However you have hit upon the crux of the matter, the holistic aspect of this entire matter. Not just the lost money to mostly seniors but all the lost companies and now the tax revenue. Emphasis on the individual pain those people will feel as well as on the corporate loss and the fallout we all will feel from that. My basic comment for what is worth, Glad you are not letting this issue go and a word in a reporters ear ot two about this might help to keep it alive. Hope you guys (Liberals) have a plan to help rescue some of the people who lost their collective shirts because of this lie.
Mr. Prime Minister,
Why would you lie to Seniors saying you would not TAX Income Trusts?
Why will you not let the Finance Committee see documents that evidence proof of tax leakage and why are sections blacked out?
Did you know before you broke your promise that Canadian Income Trusts would be for sale to foreign interests, thereby collecting no tax revenue in the future?
The handling of the Income Trust Issue was UNFAIR and MISGUIDED with no transparency or consultation. Are we seniors expected to trust you when you do this to us?
Why won’t you amend the flawed legislation to an extended period and lower tax rate as suggested by members of the Finance Committee?
A simple request
Can you request an unaltered “proof” of tax leakage from Mr Flaherty?
I am referring to the 18 blanked out pages that he supplied.
It sounds odd, and probably a little conspiracy theory, but this whole buying up of trusts by foreign investors (mainly american, no?) almost seems PLANNED somehow. It all seems so convenient. Why is it happening in this manner? Why aren’t Canadian companies grabbing these things? Or is it simply the fact that Canadian companies will have to burden massive taxes meanwhile out of country investors will be able to pass them by?
And if that is the case …why? Why is it ok for outside interests to come into our country, take away internal investments and then NOT pay the taxes that SHOULD be going into our government?
This all seems a little to convenient. A little to easy and a lot to bad to Canada.
Where’s the reset button when you need it?
One important point to get across to all canadians is that the Income Trust fiasco is not only about seniors or Income Trusts investors.
ALL canadians will suffer from this attacks on income trusts. All Canadians and their childrens are going to pay a high price for this.
As more non-IT investors start to realize that they too are getting the shaft, they will pay more attention to this important issue.
Garth, please get this message out loud.
Garth, I want you to ask Jack Layton why his party supported the income trust taxation and whether or not he will join with the Liberals to reduce the tax on income trusts to mitigate the damage caused.
Because without Jack and the NDP, the income trust legislation would never have passed. But I doubt you will mention that since it doesn’t score you as many political points with Mr Dion, your new leftist leader.
Ask Flaherty if he needs to “level the playing field” again after witnessing all the Income Trusts heading for American pockets, or whether this was an intended consequence.
The only thing I would say to the Finance Minister is accept the FINA report recommendations immediately.
The Finance Committee heard compelling arguments to even spark a doubt as to “tax leakage” so let’s get the compromise recommendations in place and everyone can get back to their lives…. and we may yet save some further REAL tax leakage by putting a stop to the trust takeovers.
Mr Harper , Mr Flaherty & the remaining Conservative MPs–you have placed our country in jeopardy with your policy regarding income trusts , changes in interest deductiblity & withholding taxes for corporations , & your poor decisions in relation to transfer payments to the provinces.
In one fell swoop you have removed huge chunks of investors savings , devalued many fine businesses , placed corporations in a poor position to compete globally & managed to alienate several provinces.
The resultant sell-off of many fine businesses to private equity has already begun–this will snowball as the tax rules become law–the resultant loss in tax revenue will result in either higher taxes or lost programs–further downloading of responsibility for programs to provinces will have to continue.
The loss of a fine investment vehicle for those of us close to retirement is a shame–it was government policy that resulted in the low interest environment in which we found ourselves that caused many of us to look to trusts as a way to supplement our incomes.
There were many other alternatives to this destructive tax–rather than up tax rates on trusts , why not lower tax on corporations to say 10% level & then raise tax on trusts to the same level–the playing field would be level as you & certain corporations wanted–the economy would be stimulated resulting in higher tax revenues–this would have produced many fine investment alternatives with very nice returns.
Something needs to be done before all is lost–if you won`t do it , step aside & we will put a party in place that will!!!!
Garth, it wasn’t the destruction of my savings that hurt me the most. It was the destruction of my previous life long belief that politicians acted for the good of the country and were basically decent human beings.
The blackening-out of the purported rationale by the Finance Department during the FINA hearings was a shock to me. This was then coupled with the hiding of the bill inside the budget so that no discussion was possible. These actions appear to cover up the guilty knowledge that the true facts could not stand up to public scrutiny.
Lies and hiding the true facts are the very opposite of accountability, a word much in talk these days in Ottawa but not much in practice.
I feel a malaise for our country under such leadership.
Garth – do or did you , your wife, members of your family or individuals you counselled as an investment advisor hold Income Trusts as part of your stock portfolio?
How ’bout none of your bees wax Lorraine.
You are rude and insulting beyond belief.
Suggest you try and find a life of dignity .
Thank you Garth–a lone voice in the wilderness–thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would I say? I would quote Oliver Cromwell, as he dismissed the Rump Parliament: “In the Name of God, GO!” The Harpercrats have proved themselves even LESS competent than the Muldoonicans of the 80’s. They spin a lie, they get caught, they spin another lie. Brain-dead spiders on crystal meth couldn’t spin such webs. Election? Much too late – much too kind. Plug ‘em, plant ‘em, and grow something useful for a change.
It sounds odd, and probably a little conspiracy theory, but this whole buying up of trusts by foreign investors (mainly american, no?) almost seems PLANNED somehow.
What you think that Emerson and Harpo were in Washington to actually do a deal on SL ?
Unh,uh they were there to conspire to wipe out energy trusts so the US can take over Canadian energy firms with little impediment .
Once the US owns the tar sands . Next will be our water resources .
No conspiracy there only fact .
Nothing to contribute to your planned speech except a little advice; try to lay of the asinine accusations about theft and “rape”. There’s no point in being deliberately ridiculous.
I have some sympathy for those who took a soaking on the Income Trust decision, but their most vocal advocates have a way of draining it away very quickly.
Nickel
Dime
Pettiness
The purpose of the Nickel & Dime Pettiness fixation on ATM fees is to hide their lack of support of Income Trust holders.
Instead, how about focusing how much money was made on that one day by the brokerages when they slashed through the Stop Losses on the opening bell and took this entire strata of stocks down to rock bottom?
Any statistics on that?
Thanks Garth. You’ll have aproblem working all the suggestions into your speech.
I could have many comments, but one I’ve never seen properly addressed would go something like this:
If, and I underline If, income trusts had to be reined in, why was it done in such a ham handed and Draconian manner?
In view of the Prime Minister’s explicit election promise never to impose a tax on income trusts, and the fact that this promise undoubtedly gave existing and potential trust investors a high degree of comfort, why did the Minister of Finance not take one of the many routes available which would still have accomplished his aim without destroying massive amounts of investor capital?
The plan proposed by the Liberal Party would have done exactly that, yet the Finance Minister stubbornly refuses to consider it, sticking to his belief that the destruction of $35 billions of capital which investors were saving for their retirement was “the right thing to do.”
If the cOnservatives want Accountability, they should leave office.
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.16.07 2:50 pm
That is a one aspect of this and any government that I hope NEVER comes true. If our beloved country could be being gambled away to american interests by our very own government, I would probably cry myself to sleep at night.
I hope like hell it is not true in ANY sense of the word.
Is there someone at the wheel ?
We are losing our income and the government is losing ALL taxes at a speed/pace no one controls.
At that speed, and without a driver, we will hit the wall downhill and we will all die.
Please someone, check if Harper and Flaherty are well and alive. Being so incompetent is out of this world.
May God help us….we seriously need HIS help.
Garth, thank you for reaching out to all Canadians. I agree with your comment about the lack of full disclosure and investigative reporting by the Canadian press. If the income trust story has happened in the US, hundreds of journalists would be working on the story, and there be Congressional hearings, SEC charges etc. I firmly believe that when all the facts are known, the statements that the Minister made to the Nation last October and to the FINA committee in January be proven to be false by a quantum of 100% (i.e., tax revenues from income trust investors are double what the Minister reported); in which case, his trust tax is not justified. Indeed, the tax will cause future tax losses. The political question is ‘What could possibly have justified using false information to cause $35 billion of losses to investors (of which $13 billion was lost from retirement savings) and continuing tax losses to the government?’
But I have a legal question. Does the proposed tax breach the Charter of Rights? As you know, last week was the Charter’s 25th anniversary. I’m not a lawyer; even so, as I understand, section 1 guarantees that a government must demonstrably justify in a free and democratic way what it is doing. Has the Minister brought to the House of Commons full and fair justification of the tax as would be expected of a democratic government. I say ‘No; the Minister has hidden key data for our parliamentarians.’ Under section 15, Canadians are protected from discrimination. While section 15 is typically used to protect minorities, the section applies to all Canadians: “Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination…†In this regard, the Minister of Finance has used incomplete and inaccurate data to devise a tax law which divides a class of tax entities into two sub-classes; to one sub-class there will be applied a tax that will make the entities of the class odious to the public markets; and to the other sub-class, the tax will not be applied. The distinguishing marks between the two sub-classes are (a) type of business asset, and (b) the perception that one sub-type is active and the other passive business. The second distinction has heretofore been irrelevant, indeed unknown, for business or financial management purposes of publicly traded entities. The Minister has not prepared any analyses for, what he calls, the ‘passive’ entities; and his analyses of the ‘active’ entities are either non-existent or defective. Industry experts for the active entities believe that the Minister has used materially incorrect business and tax information in respect of those entities. So, the Minister has discriminated against some entities who, except for his tax, are equal and should be treated equally with other entities. Before this legislation is finalized, will Parliament check with constitution experts? Has the Minister unwittingly created a Charter case?
“No conspiracy there only fact .”
so Jackie, are you saying Conspiracy is the opposite of Fact?
“But the most egregious aspect of the income trust debacle is the rape of private savings by politicians who promised they would never be touched.
It is my view that MPs like Dykstra (St. Catharines) and del Mastro (Peterborough), along with their committee colleague Mike Wallace (Burlington), should be held acountable for this. I hope voters do so.”
We are in the throes of DOING JUST THAT!
I would ask Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Harper how they can face their own children and tell them never to lie…after what they did to so many people. I’d be ashamed to face my children…
its are an excellent vehicle for us poor bastards who have no pension plans. Sure, the are lousy ones but there are also good one, very good ones and excellent ones. The better ones manage to increase distributions and grow bothe the enterprise and unit value. Good professional management with demonstrated integrity and trust makes for a successful trust. Too bad the same can’t be said for the Harperites and the hipercrits that us card carring Conservatives got sucked into supporting. Also, don’t forget all the junior oil co.’s that got devasted as well. I wouldn’t soil my boot by kicking these cons in the arse.
Yes Garth why have the Cons destroyed the oil and gas industry in our mature basin. Not only did they destroy Income Trust but they also destroyed the incentive to drill the less prolific areas, in which the trusts structure excelled. Not only have the trusts been hit but also the juniors which no longer have the same exit strategies.
Why did they listen to Nut cases like Rosen and Ursquirt for all there pumping and dumping on PONZI schemes…..their message is consistantly ignored as irrelevent by American buyers of our Canadian assets. When are the Cons going to stem the tide of “tax leakage to the U.S.”
Why have the Cons lied giving me the Bait to buy more and them Trapping me with their tax un-fairness plan. Furthermore adding insult with injury by saying that our investments have recouped their losses. Ah, no they havn’t I am still down over 20% and over and above this have not taken part in the general market Gains since November.
Why have the Finance Commitee reports been ignored. The committee findings were important and need to be implemented. Why have they wasted tax-payers money and wasted the time and money of the presenters involved.
Why has the finance department not presented the numerical factual evidence of there decision. This is very important as several reports have since been conducted that illustrate “no tax leakage” and “even positive tax performance” within the trust structure. Show us the numbers. Show us the facts that backs up your argument on tax leakage..
And above all can you tell us why Flaherty still holds his position as Finance Minister as the folly of his decisions are becoming clearer and clearer.
With a budget surplus The Cons could have reduced both income and corporate tax immediately and paid down somd debt. The resultant increas in activity and productivity would have allowed a further cut next year and perhaps the year after. Canada could be a powerhouse….instead we are becoming a poor house.
Garth:
Am I still banished from your blog?
I miss it
I would like to resume posting
Steve
Dear Mr. Turner,
Although I do not agree with on many issues, I appreciate your continued vigilance on the Income Trust Fiasco.
My Questions Comments for PMSH or Mr. Flaherty are as follows:
1) If this move was necessary why does the Government refuse to publish the Actual facts(Calculations) used to make this decision?
2) Why was the IT industry never consulted prior to the decision of Oct 31? Although they were consulted post announcement, nobody’s recommendations (Industry or House Committee) were given any serious consideration by the Government.
3) In light of all of the new information that has been presented to the Government since the decision
a) Telus and BCE do not or will not for the foreseeable future ever pay any income tax
b) Many companies have or are in the process of being taken over by other non-Canadian entities which will lesson the Tax paid to Revenue Canada
c) Based on Calculations from independent parties NO tax leakage EVER occurred as result of the IT’s
Why is the government not acknowledging this issue needs FAR more debate prior to being enacted?
4) Will the Government immediately put this legislation on hold for a 1 year period until a proper study can be done to truly identify all of the benefits of IT’s as well as the damage that will be forever done if this legislation passes? I agree that the Market HATES uncertainty, however what the market hates more is BAD decisions based on BAD information.
Not only did Mr. Harper make repeated campaign promises NOT to tax income trusts, he also acknowledged the benefits of trusts to seniors and retirees who relied on these investment vehicles to supplement their living expenses.
By breaking his many promises, he therefore knew full well the group that would suffer the damage of his ill-conceived flip-flop plan. They became easy and expendable targets.
Finance Minister Flaherty’s allegation of tax leakage is unfounded and unsubstantiated. Flaherty’s proof: 18 pages of blacked out data. His secondary soundbite “to level the playing field” is also a lie. Corporations, on average, actually pay only 6-8% taxes. Personal income received from trust distributions are taxed at a much higher collective rate.
After ignoring the several alternate recommendations of the Finance Committee, Flaherty’s chickens are coming home to roost. Canadian trusts are now being acquired by foreign interests and private equity creating true “tax leakage”.
Garth sucks.
Do they know you’re using the company Internet service there at Investors Group in Winnipeg, Hank? — Garth
Do they know you’re using the company Internet service there at Investors Group in Winnipeg, Hank?
Looks who’s talking! Every snot-nosed retort out of your stubby little fingers is funded 100% from the public purse. I’m sure you’ve heard this thousands of times, Garth, but you need to make a concerted effort to grow up.
To watch a middle-aged man channel his inner 6 year-old is a pathetic thing.
Hey Lawrence, sure you want to say those words? They may be your last, buddy. — Garth
Do they know you’re using the company Internet service there at Investors Group in Winnipeg, Hank? — Garth
Do I have to worry about where I post from?
Have you ever had to? — Garth
Garth sucks.
Do they know you’re using the company Internet service there at Investors Group in Winnipeg, Hank? — Garth
By Hank on 04.16.07 4:08 pm
Hardy-har-har . Busted !
When it comes to IT. I see two questions:
1. Should the rules have been changed and should they be changed again?Depends on which bunch of bean counters you believe when it comes to tax leakage or lack thereof. This is a subject for debate. But I would add that corporations would not spend million of dollars on converting if there were no benefits for their shareholders, benefits which apparantly disappeared when Mr. Flaherty did the imfamous flop!
2. Should PMSH and Mr. Flaherty have made a promise not to change the rules, with the purpose of gaining votes, only to flip-flop.
Absolutely not! That’s either a lack of integrity or a lack of competancy for the positions the two were running for and now have. And the past year hasn’t given evidence that integrity/competancy has improved.
Garth you have natural allies among the many investors in Canada, not only those who invested in Trusts.
Its plain to see Flaherty has no concept of how capital markets work and is willing to sluff off the consequences of his actions.
Here are the latest ads from the Canadian Association of Income Trust Investors.
Double click to view individual ads.
I received the following letter in my email today. It is an excellent summary of how seniors were bilked out of billions of dollars of their savings by Stephen Harper and company. It should be read aloud in Parliament.
From the National Post April 13, 2007, FP COMMENT
LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Blame for trust debacle rests with PM
Do not fault senior retirees for investing in income trusts.
The primary reason for senior retirees and working citizens planning for retirement to invest in income trusts was for the income streams they produced, as opposed to inadequate fixed-income investment returns or the risks related to buying public stocks for capital gains.
When your capital is limited and you need to supplement your income, diversification outside of income-producing investments is not an option.
Senior investors did not fail to diversify to fixed-income investments and stocks out of ignorance or greed, it was out of experience and the need to derive cash flow.
Many seniors with small pensions, invested in income trusts after years of studying the markets and building up the experience and confidence required to risk their limited investment capital. Most retirees or seniors do not have the luxury of a “balanced” portfolio and until Mr. Harper and the Conservative government broke their promises, the best income-producing assets were income trusts.
They had the confidence to invest in income trusts for the following reasons:
The Prime Minister, Mr. Harper, and the Conservative party promised not to tax income trusts and indeed promoted the value of these investments for seniors. The Bank of Canada governor, David Dodge, praised income trusts. The provincial governments legislated for the removal of unlimited liability to enable pension funds to invest safely into income trusts. The Toronto Stock Exchange included income trusts in their indexes. Mutual funds and pension funds invested heavily in income trusts. Many brokers and investment analysts promoted the purchasing of income trusts.
Income trusts had been on the market for a number of years and many had a long record of paying steady distributions that were higher than money markets. Many funds of income trusts were rated with four and five stars. institutional investors were investing in them, e.g. CPP and Teachers Union. Fixed-income rates were barely above inflation. Dividend stocks had very low payouts. Stocks did not provide cash flow and were a gamble on capital gains. With royalty trusts, investors were purchasing actual inventory in the ground.
No senior investor expected:
That the Prime Minister would renege on a solemn promise made to senior citizens not to tax income trusts.
That the Conservative Party would renege on a clearly defined party-platform promise not to tax income trusts.
The total blame for this $30-billion debacle rests squarely on the shoulders of the Prime Minister and the Conservative party for encouraging seniors to invest in income trusts and then breaking their solemn promises not to tax them.
Seniors were deceived as they were encouraged to invest in income trusts and were then abandoned and victimized by the very parties they had believed in and supported.
Gerry Harley, a senior citizen, Ottawa
Harold:
This letter was first published here. Glad to see it is gaining currency. — Garth
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.16.07 2:50 pm
That is a one aspect of this and any government that I hope NEVER comes true. If our beloved country could be being gambled away to american interests by our very own government, I would probably cry myself to sleep at night.
I hope like hell it is not true in ANY sense of the word.
By SJ on 04.16.07 3:22 pm
Sorry to break it you SJ but it is the truth .
Mssrs.Flaherty,Harpo and Emerson made this deal in Washington .
Why do you think all the trusts are being bought up by Yankee business’
And why do you think we got such a spectacularly awful,rotten deal on the SL file.Can you say SELL OUT ?
Harpo loves all things Yankee and is desparate to be seen as a member of the Republican party north .
If we don’t get him out soon there will be nothing left of Canada except a hand full of beavers and some moose .
The entire investment community, except for Al Rosen and Diane Urquhart, knew this sell off would ocurr. When Flaherty reduced the value of Income Trusts by 20% it was obvious they would be targeted. What’s more interesting it that Rosen’s so called Ponzi schemes are being bought at 30 to 40% premiums by private equity…It seems the big players know better. And the NDP use Rosen and Urquhart for advice…fools guided by fools.
See, this is why we need experienced MPs in charge of critical files.
Dykstra had no right to be part of the income trust decision. He’s a current backbencher, former bookbanner and ex-St. Catharines city councilor with no financial experience, whatsoever. His only “in” is that he shined John Baird’s boots in the Mike Harris government.
How did he get to be part of such an important decision?
-R
Neo-cons have become a malignant tumour ,on the body of Canada, that needs to be operated on .
Their maliciousness in regards to the IP file is breath taking .
Not only did Harpo expand the IT market for seniors to invest in these vehicles he did so maliciously .
He had to have known well in advance that he would be attacking the IT’s as he was well aware of the Goodale fiasco regarding these same instruments .
It is obvious this didn’t just occur to him and Flaherty .
They made the deal in Washington with US trade officials .
Prove me wrong .
Hey Lawrence, sure you want to say those words? They may be your last, buddy. — Garth
By Lawrence Garvin on 04.16.07 4:23 pm
Fry his butt Garth !
Twit never contributes anything intelligent.
Let him go the way of the Steve .
IMHO
I was a conservative.
I forgave them for scrapping the Arrow.
I still voted for them after GST.
After killing the best corporate structure available to Canadians, income trusts, I will never never be a conservative again. They are American puppets.
Hey Lawrence, sure you want to say those words? They may be your last, buddy. — Garth
I’m quaking in my boots. Ban me and let your little ass-kissers spew racist rhetoric and insulting stupidity and foaming conspiracy theories all day long. It says everything about you and nothing at all about me…
This board is the perfect expression of who you are… live with that.
Bye, bye. You are deleto. — Garth
Subject: Income Trust Takeovers, Energy Trusts and latest Waterheater Income Fund
Or The destruction of Small Investors Wealth by Govt Fiat in Taxing Trusts.
Comment:
Wow, these “ponzi” schemes really seem to attract the big money guys – better have Al Rozen talk to them to save them from themselves.
Or maybe they aren’t Ponzi’s after all, just one heck of a good deal at fire sale prices.
Never the less, yet again, another Company to go private and off shore – too bad small investors, no more fat dividends to get taxed by the CRA – you lose.
And so does Canada.
Nice one yet again Jim Flaherty
.
.
** We really can’t afford Harper **
.
Dear Garth,
A broken promise is a broken promise. The current government broke its promise not to tax income trusts. These actions have seriously lessened our confidence in the government’s ability to govern with honesty & integrity. Our investments and the investments of thousands of Canadians, especially seniors like us,have suffered greatly. We reject the government’s claim that destroying existing trusts was necessary to prevent further conversions. We urge you to do whatever you can to get Harper & Flaherty to keep their promise & reverse this disastrous decision. Thank you
Ton & Ethna Anderso
I wouldn’t soil my boot by kicking these cons in the arse.
By mike o’lary on 04.16.07 3:44 pm
Well, my son, that’s where you and I differ … I plan to do a whole lot of arse kicking when the time comes.
We must not forget to hold Jack Layton’s bottom to the fire for this debacle. He is responsible for the loss of “day care” “Kelowna accord” and now has supported the IT massacre. No one seems to mention the NDP’s role in all these events. It is time to get rid of the NDP along with the Neocons and bring back the Red Tories.
Do they know you’re using the company Internet service there at Investors Group in Winnipeg, Hank? — Garth
Do I have to worry about where I post from?
Have you ever had to? — Garth
By Ed Brooks on 04.16.07 4:28 pm
Geez, I’m on the CRAPPER! Oh, well, for my deep-seated fear of discovery, I won’t flush. Send in one of the CSI teams for a DNA swab. I’ll even leave the seat up.
No need, sir, we are already aware of your position. — Garth
Jackie Chan, the thoughts that you are expressing have crossed my mind but I could not deal with the idea that even Harpo could go as far as to sell Canada to GWB at wholesale prices. Wish I could prove you wrong but the more this story unravels the less sense it makes.
It goes back to that most basic lesson about honesty that most of us learn before we are 10 years old. I remember well my father telling me that if I didn’t always tell the truth no one would ever know if they could believe me. That basic truth is no different today. I now know that I can no longer believe anything this government tells me.
My wife and I are retired and our personal trust losses last fall were sufficient that they have changed our lifestyle. We did not go anywhere this winter and may not next either. We had saved enough and planned to travel every winter as long as we were able.
More importantly it has caused me to rethink my investment strategies as I still intend to recover those losses if I can. I will now be greatly limiting my investments in Canadian markets as it is apparent to the entire world that we have a new regime that is not friendly to our capital markets. The trust decision last fall and more importantly the lies that preceded it and the lack of explaination have confirmed that.
The proposed changes to interest deductability will also be devastating to Canadian business in a global economy. This will lead to further take overs and lesss competative Canadian businesses.
In the end I want to own the businesses that are buying our Canadian companies. There may be a few bucks to be made by owning some of the take out targets but in the end the owners of the assets are where I plan to invest.
The Conservatives are not just chasing foreign Capital out of our markets. They are chasing Canadian capital away too. They are chasing my capital away to safer more profitable havens. I now own RIO on NY rather that Inco on Toronto and that is only the beginning if the interest deductability changes happen.
By Pyotr Petrobitch on 04.16.07 5:38 pm
“I’m on the CRAPPER!”"I’ll even leave the seat up”
You`re on the crapper with the seat up!!!
Is that one of those Jackie Chan martial arts training things to toughen up your arse for the kicking you`re going to get in the next election?
Anyone notice that Hank signed from ON – so what’s the Winnipeg bit – he’s probably a Conservative supporter trying to hide who he is.
Quite a drive from Ontario to Winnpeg to go to work.
No need, sir, we are already aware of your position. — Garth
By Pyotr Petrobitch on 04.16.07 5:38 pm
Garth gets off another good one .
ROTFLMAO
You gotta have a sense of humour in the monkey house .
I sometimes wonder how the apes feel about our being descended from them .
My RRSP took a 25% haircut in the aftermath of the Halloween massacre. It has since recovered about 10%.
However, the real pain of this legislation will come in 5 years when I convert to an RRIF. If all goes according to plan (admittedly a big “if”) I was projecting distribution income of $2,000/month to fund my withdrawals. Now, thanks to Flaherty’s Folly, I will only be getting $1,400/month, and I will still have to pay tax on it! To call this “tax fairness” is pure, Orwellian Doublespeak. There’s nothing fair about it.
Unhappily, even the $1,400 may prove over optimistic. Operationally these are good trusts and I have every confidence they will deliver, but in the environment Flaherty has created they may not survive as trusts. If they get bought out, sure I’ll make a decent capital gain on them, probably even recover that last 15%. However, will I be able to reinvest the proceeds in anything that will generate the income I was expecting? Perhaps, but at this point I sure don’t see how.
How about a bill to slap a 30% prepayment tax on MP pensions? “Share the pain!”
For me it,s not having the proof of tax leakage. The blacked out pages by the finance department pretty well says it all. I could live with changes to income trusts if it was proven they were not good for the canadian economy. Just give me good reasons for changing income trust policy and i,ll eat the loss. I didn,t know much about the particulars of income trusts but when they presented blanked out pages i studied up on trusts and a simple person like me could see the fix was in.I have been taken for a smuck and i,m pi$$ed off !
i sure appreciate garths help for unsophisticated little guys like myself.
I wonder where the Reform/Alliance grass roots people who once chamapioned a Recall System when an elected person broke his/her promise are to-day? Also why have these seniors who lost so much not organized and demanded CBC air time?
Pyotr,
Well, my son, that’s where you and I differ … I plan to do a whole lot of arse kicking when the time comes.
Might I highly recommend acquiring a pair of proper steel toed cowboy boots?
That will allow you to sneak up on them, and them properly apply the ‘point’ to their cerbral cortex in a most efficient manner! I alread have mine on order. LOL
“It is time to get rid of the NDP along with the Neocons and bring back the Red Tories.”
Yeah, sure, let’s draft the return of Joe Clark. That will really take us into the future, won’t it?
The only problem is, the Liberals are already the Red Party, so if we go back to the days of the Red Tories, why do we need two Red Parties?
SLG, Hank did not sign on from On. The on means what time you made the post. I am in BC now and I think it will read By Marc on 04.16.07 7:01PM
You`re on the crapper with the seat up!!!
Is that one of those Jackie Chan martial arts training things
- Get a Rope, ON
Nope, it ain’t a Jackie Chan training thing…but it will do the same job on gluteus max! A Crapper – Named after the Inventor – the first flushable toilet and I’ve used one.
Why are Income Trusts deemed illegal in many other countries? Australia, the United States and most European countries consider them to be a money laundering Ponzi schemes.
So, the international fraudsters could still play this game in Canada and still can for four more years.
Dear Mr Prime Minister,
You personnely promised that you would not let other parties get away with taxing income trusts. Silly for us to assume that what you condemned other parties for was a promise for your party not to do the same thing. Since the NDP supported youe budget, have they not got away with taxing income trusts ? It is a broken promise no matter how you wish to spin it.
Most seniors don’t bark, they get even!
.when you have eliminated the impossible,
whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (Sherlock Holmes)
Jackie Chan, the thoughts that you are expressing have crossed my mind but I could not deal with the idea that even Harpo could go as far as to sell Canada to GWB at wholesale prices. Wish I could prove you wrong but the more this story unravels the less sense it makes.
By Jacquie Gavarkovs on 04.16.07 5:58 pm
Hi Garth
I am sure you have plenty of Ammo for tomorrow.
If you happen to run into my buddy Wallace from Burlington please let him know: “Do Not Forget, Do Not Forget his New Government” can never ever be trusted !
income-trust=never vote conservative
With respect James .
A lot of people on this blog should avail themselves of that very thing .
They seem a little backed up .
Anyone that had 100% of their investment portfolio in income trusts deserves the return that they received. They should fire their advisors and hire new ones, especially if they are all self-directed!
Here is a pretty good indicator.
I own 17279 shares of SENTRY SELECT DIVERSIFIED INCOME TRUST UNITS. As of October 31, 2006 they were valued at 5.90 (closing bid price for margin account valuation), the market value being $101,946.10. This is an extremely well managed diversified portfolio of income trusts by one of the sharpest fund managers on the street. This is a closed end fund of income trusts managed by a crack team of well experienced people who know when to sell. If a team of this experience and knowledge can be ambushed by the CONservatives like this, what about the average investor?
The last trade (April 10, 2007 approximately 10 minutes to close) on the TSX for SDT.UN is $4.61. This gives an estimated market value of $79,656.19 in my account. I didn’t sell and I am still holding a loss of equity of $22,289.91, approximately 22% down from when Flaherty blundered into the market.
I have held Sentry Select since 2001. I did not buy into them due to advertorials. Like any other security there are analysts and experts who delineate the risk/reward quotients for these. Al Rosen and Diane Urquhart do not even know what the difference between an income trust and a stapled unit is.
I am not a naive investor, as I have been a market professional for 10 years. It is ignorant to say that income trusts that paid distributions were riskier than stocks that didn’t.
The whole crux of the matter is that certain corporate executives didn’t like them because they have nothing but disrespect for the investors they think of as the unwashed masses. They believe that they should build empires with the companies money and that mere investors shouldn’t get a share.
My wife is due to give birth any moment. Do you think that this loss will be made up by the few hundred dollars in bones Flaherty threw me?
It looks like Flaherty’s blacked out numbers are turning bright red!
Geoffrey Laxton
Lorraine on 04.16.07 7:06 pm
What fraud are you referring to?
If the takeovers of underpriced quality Trusts were to continue at the current pace, I will be relegated to buying what’s left with high risk and low yield, after only one year. Flaherty ought to be impeached on his fuzzy foreign GST tax rebates cancellation to the Germans, who are now boycotting Canada, before our whole Tourism Industry is destroyed. Ray Laxton
Dear Prime Minister:
Please keep up the great work. We need you to fix our country. Criminals need to be punished and not treated like baby’s so they can go out and kill again. We need senate reform so old highly paid farts dont fall asleep on the job. We need the stop to corruption and accountability that you have brought to government. I am so happy that the pompus ass liberals are not in power. Thank god for that. They are stipid!!!!!!!!
Most of the posts on this subect have very succinctly outlined many points to ponder and irrefutable facts regarding ITs. Go get ‘em Garth…I hope to watch QP and hope that childish behaviour doesn’t drown out your questions, comments and statements. It would be refreshing indeed if the either PMSH or Min. Flaherty would actually ANSWER a question instead of avoid, deny and cloud the issue – again.
PJW,
Most seniors don’t bark, they get even!
Oh, how so very true! No screaming, nor posturing, just satisfaction! LMAO!
Brian, you said “Since the NDP supported your budget..” but the NDP did not vote for the Budget…. the CONS managed to pass the Budget vote because of Bloc Québecois support.
The NDP and BQ supported the Ways & Means Motion No. 10 back on November 7th 2006.
The Liberals have not supported the CONS on any aspect of the CONs’ handling of the Income Trust taxation fiasco. John McCallum has been fighting Flaherty and NDP Judy W. since November 2006 and he is not giving up defending the Income Trust investors and I can see that Garth is not giving up either.
Garth, since the new SES poll shows that 58% of Canadians feel that they would be comfortable with a PC Majority and that Harper’s numbers are getting better in Quebec could you please find out when SD will begin a Quebec tour. I know our leader is working very hard and seems to have made alot of friends on Bay Street (my son is an analyst) but we need to rebuild the party in Quebec.
You are right Bill we seniors may not bark but we sure can bite. We may have to work very hard, I did not realize how difficult the task would be until now. Never new we had so many Leasas and Angies out there.
Perry
Thank you for the correction. I did not intend a slight against the NDP but to point out that if SH is attempting a Bill Clinton type defense on his exact words used, it is still a promise broken.
From : Wikepedia:
However, many detractors of income trusts argue that income trusts are Ponzi schemes because a substantial portion of the ‘distribution’ from an income trust consists of Return of Capital, in other words, a return of one’s original investment, rather than actual business operating earnings. Detractors further argue that distributions for certain trusts, particularly in the oil and gas sector, are actually partially financed by the issuance of new equity, and not by actual cash flows generated by business assets.
Wow. Wikipedia. End of argument. — Garth
Geoffrey Laxton
By Geoffrey L. on 04.16.07 7:50 pm
Looking at the SDT chart it appears the IT has run above the purchase price since you bought it. Twice it was above a 50% profit margin. If you knew certain corporate executives didn’t like them and didn’t sell during the frequent high profit events then you must be one of the few that believe politics isn`t influenced by big money.
All in all this IT thing is a tempest in a tea cup. If the internet was as established when GST was brought in as it is now ever server in Canada would have crashed with the screaming. Follow that up by the galaxy sized lie of axe the tax and the Libs ran on for another 13 years. Even if you can get people that were not involved with IT your BMC just reminds them about the GST and the lies that followed.
Angie, I’m trying to decipher the meaning of this message of yours. Perhaps that last word was supposed to be stiptic? If so, then yes, while a touch oblique, quite appropriate when used in reference to the topic at hand (… and recent spending announcements, for that matter). ie.:
stiptic: Producing contraction; stopping bleeding; having the quality of restraining haemorrhage when applied to the bleeding part; astringent.
Council of Canadians challenges Environment Minister on bulk water exports
Environment Minister John Baird’s response to a leaked document that reveals bulk water exports will be discussed at a trinational meeting in Calgary is full of holes according to the Council of Canadians.
The citizens’ advocacy group obtained the document produced by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a prominent Washington-based think tank last week. It revealed that government officials and business leaders from Canada, Mexico and the United States plan to discuss bulk water exports in a closed-door meeting in Calgary on April 27, as part of a larger discussion on North American integration.
“Minister Baird’s claims that current legislation prohibits bulk water exports are inaccurate,†says Maude Barlow, National chairperson of the Council of Canadians. “The provincial accords he mentions are voluntary and can be broken at any time. The so-called prohibition on bulk water exports contained in the 1909 International Boundary Waters Treaty Act (IBWTA) only applies to waters that are shared with the U.S. and does not apply to what the U.S. is really after – water from Canada’s North.â€
Last October the Global Water and Energy Strategy Team, another Washington-based group, put forward a proposal to export water from northern Manitoba to Texas through a pipeline. According to Barlow, nothing in Canada’s existing legislation would prevent this type of scheme from being implemented.
The Council of Canadians is also concerned that restrictions on shared waters outlined by the IBWTA are weak and have been ignored in the past, allowing for water diversions from the Great Lakes.
“Baird makes no mention of the April 27 meeting to which government officials from all three NAFTA countries have been invited,†says Barlow. “Is he prepared to state unequivocally that our government will not take part in these talks?â€
The Council of Canadians will hold an “open-door” meeting in Calgary on April 25. The public meeting will give groups and concerned citizens a chance to discuss North American integration and the looming threats it poses to Canada’s water.
-30-
For more information, please contact:
Meera Karunananthan Media Officer: Tel.: (613) 233-4487, ext. 234; Cell: (613) 795-8685; meera@canadians.org.
A question I would like you to ask PM Harper is:
Mr. Prime Minister since your broken promise on Income Trusts has caused a bomb blast on IT investor’s income leaving huge numbers of seionrs shell shocked,
And since your broken promise on Income Trusts has left our energy sector under foreign attack,
Will you, Prime Minister, commit to redploying as many troops as possible to Canada to protect our water resources before Mr. Flaherty sells us, and our water, down the (Mississippi) river?
Sincerely,
MB
Water is under provincial jurisdiction.
Harper and Lafferty figured they could squash the pussy cats(trusts) while stalking the dinasauer.(BCE) Well, the pussy cats have become tigers and the dinasauers have become chickens. Now, the neocons want to declaw the rest of the corporate structure in order to save face. These aren’t the kind of friends corporate Canada needs….Argentina had them and, for awhile loved them, until they bankrupted the country. Neo-cons and parasites evolved from the same species that had their origin in the cesspool of greed, stupitidy, self-gratification and the desire of self enhancement at the expense of others….they rise up by standing on the heads of others and regard others and their ideas with contempt. They can often be recognized by their air of smuggness or their facination while gazing into a mirror. Unlike the vampire, they actually seek out this activity. Neverthless, they and the vampire are both renowned blood suckers. They are fastiduous dressers but by nature are anal retentive and suffer from frequent bouts of flatulence. Perhaps, that is another reason why they stink.
Anyone that had 100% of their investment portfolio in income trusts deserves the return that they received. They should fire their advisors and hire new ones, especially if they are all self-directed!
By Paully on 04.16.07 7:32 pm
Everyone believing 100 % in Stephen Harper’s lies when he promised he would not touch the Income trusts should fire him as PM & hire an another one.
So,as I see it the only people who have a case to be angry about the future change in the Income Trust tax treatment in four years are those who purposely bought Income Trust stocks AFTER they heard the Conservatives promise during the 2006 election – so after about November 2005 or so.
Those who already held them did not depend on Harper for their decision and had the benefits accrued since it would appear that IT’s increased quite dramatically in value.
The only others who would justify saying they “lost” money in IT’s are those who paic sold in the week or two after the October 2006 announcement when the values dropped quite a bit.
Now that most have gone up and many other stocks went up one would think that within the next four years benefits would still accrue if you held on to them.
All this talk of IT, reminds me of the greed that finally caused the collapse of Nortel. John Roth and Nortel execs kept making ever so stupid business decisions to attract short term investors, that it eventually destroyed a very blue-chip conservative investment company. Previously, Nortel’s returns were low and consistant and strong. But, the greed from investors (shareholders) led to no long term vision.
And if anyone thinks it was just a high-tech bubble and bust – one needs to take a look at Cisco, Nortel’s rival. Cisco, weathered out the storm, because they didn’t do stupid business decisions. This should be lesson to everyone out there. Generally, higher rates of return are riskier and greed may not be the best vehicle and may not be good for long term economic vision. Stephen Harper never told these investors to put the bulk of their monies into ITs.
Since Oct 31.
16 Trusts valued at $10-Billion have been sold and won’t pay Canadian Tax.
But oh no, the CPC had nothing to do with it. Middle Class taxes are not going down and if this continues will probably go up!
GO Garth…knock some sense into the Harpoons!
Glad to see Dion hammer away at the Income Trust Issue but disgusted MSM had poor coverage of it. Was it the bad weather?
Jackie Chan and Lana:
Something is happening. Have you heard of the North American Union? Probably not since our government and our media are not talking about it. Apparently it is a plan to remove the borders between Canada, U.S. and Mexico, ostensibly to provide freer trade and travel between these countries. It is planned to be in place by 2010.
It is interesting that trusts are expected to disappear by 2010 (the U.S. does not permit trusts as we know them).
The U.S. is desperate for our Canadian resources, including, but not limited to oil and water. They also want to market their agricultural products in Canada, and are opposed to marketing boards here which subsidize prices (our gov’t is trying to destroy the Wheat Board, and probably other mktg. bds.in the future). Coincidences???
By Marie on 04.17.07 9:01 am
North American Union and coincidences.
Nothing would surprise me when it comes to the US and oil.Lots of the oil from Alberta is already going to the US.
As to the water.Sounds plausible to me.
So what opposition member is going to ask that question.I,m sure no one from the CONS side of the house would enlighten us.Until after it’s done.And just in case there is but one little smidgen of truth in this happening
Anyone still want Mr Harper with a majority.Is this the nation building PMSH was talking about in VIMY a few weeks ago.
By the way if anyone would like a little info on Nation Destruction read all you want at Rabble.ca
The article is called.Iran May Be The Greatest Crisis Of Modern Time.Writer’s name is John Pilger.
No coincidences in that article Marie.
Hi Garth,
If two posts are okay, I’m adding a second blog. I agree whole-heartedly with Karl on (posted 04.16.07 3:45 pm). The income trust tax will destroy a sector of the oil & gas industry that is controlled and majority owned by Canadians, not just in Alberta, but by thousands of Canadians across this great land from shining sea to sewer outfall in Victoria (which is something that really needs a fix.)
Years ago, there was only one good-sized Canadian oil & gas company—CP Oil & Gas. Then Trudeau started Petro Canada and Lougheed started Alberta Energy (AEC). CPOG became Pan Canadian which merged with AEC to begat Encana. Meanwhile a fellow named Marcel Tremblay, originally from Quebec, designed an income trust for oil & gas. That was almost 20 years. To make a long story short. Without any government help and in the some darkest days of the industry (of course you guys loved it because oil prices were so low), income trusts grew. Over time, oil & gas trusts came to own about 16% of the industry. Canadians still own less than 50% of the industry. If you’re a fellow taxpayer, you got to love oil & gas trusts because trust investors pay 30% of the income taxes for the whole industry. Other oil companies drill away their profits. Trust investors, like all good Canadians, pay good and reasonable taxes.
I strongly suspect that some rich and powerful people in Calgary told Harper to get rid of oil & gas trusts. Why? Because Canadians like trusts so much, oil & gas trusts can raise capital for big projects and take on the big multi-nationals. I’ve noticed before that when competition gets tough, the Americans go get a Congressman. But we don’t have those, so in Calgary they got to the Prime Minister. Meanwhile, in Toronto, you have powerful players (like two very wealthy families behind the Canadian media), huge pension funds, etc. So the other trusts became collateral damage of a blow aimed at the oil & gas trusts.
Of course, this is speculation. But why else would the Tories do it? What else can explain why the Tories have made over a million voters mad at them?
They also want to market their agricultural products in Canada, and are opposed to marketing boards here which subsidize prices (our gov’t is trying to destroy the Wheat Board, and probably other mktg. bds.in the future). Coincidences???
By Marie on 04.17.07 9:01 am
No,Marie in my experience there are no coincidences in politics.
The IT fiasco was dictated out of Washington .
The Lumber agreement was already written although the Liberals refused to sign it.
What was negotiated was the US taking over the Canadian energy sector by stealth .
Those eighteen blacked out pages are the smoking gun that proves that the 3,amigos Flaherty,Wilson and Harpo knew exactly what they were siging away to the US .
Next, our water rights .
Catherine on 04.17.07 4:41 am
Missing the point and your lack of perspective are your strong points. Nortel and the tech companies that crashed did not pay monthly distributions, so important to people who need to pay their bills.
get a rope on 04.16.07 10:15 pm
Equity loss since Oct 31st was an event driven solely by Harper and Flaherty’s trust tax.. a broken promise, a false premise of tax leakage and now the sellout of Corporate Canada to foreign and tax exempt entities and a resultant loss in equity from Oct 31st which squarely rests on Harper’s and Flaherty’s regardless of how one spins it. Their policy failed: tax revenue is lost and investors, mostly seniors lost money. The exact opposite of what their’s and the NDP’sstated policy objective was. This is indefensible.
Go get them Garth. This was a deal made in Washington and it smells like Geo Busch.We seniors who lost our income and savings at the hands of Flaherty and Harper are dam mad and we will do everything in our power to bring this dictatorship of the Conservites down before Canada is destroyed.
Don from Hanover
Well Garth, do you dare say?
Domestic violence mantra kills 30 at Virginia Tech
Virginia Tech police jumped to the conclusion the AJ dorm shooting was a domestic dispute. The issue of domestic disputes has been pushed to the forefront of all violence to the point where the police didn`t even consider this might be an atypical school shooting. This false conclusion resulted in a delay to implement full lock down procedures only being followed after 30 more deaths made it apparent it wasn`t a domestic dispute.
Every training seminar, every meeting, every procedural handbook, puts domestic violence as top priority. The Virginia Tech police were following procedure and their training, including arresting who they thought was the perp under domestic violence guidelines, and the result was this horrific tragedy.
Domestic violence is a sham and we have the stats to prove it. The domestic violence issue was created on baseless statements like all men are evil all women are victims.
Hiding real truth behind statements like that, or children don`t need fathers, or fathers have visitation rights, or child support is the most important thing to a child and the rest of the unfounded statements created by the enemies of our children continue to widen the sphere of havoc in our society.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sharedparenting/message/21657
Yesterday was tragic. I hope it is not politicized, other than as a powerful argument against guns. — Garth
Rope,
Yesterday was tragic. I hope it is not politicized, other than as a powerful argument against guns. — Garth
It just was by PMSH in QP. Instead of answering Dion’s question he went on to talk about this atrocity, which is nothing more than ‘Bowling for Columbine’ displayed, again, for the entire world to see. Anything to divert away from the questions in QP.
“Yesterday was tragic. I hope it is not politicized, other than as a powerful argument against guns.” — Garth
Garth, you are right, yesterday was tragic, but the solution is not found in gun control. It is found in better mental health and drug treatment programs. If someone wants to kill, they will find a way to do it. A 2nd year Chem student knows how to make enough explosives using easily accessible chemicals. The problem is most of these kids/young adults are troubled and there is a stigma of people with mental health issues that results in them not seeking any help.
I hope it is not politicized, other than as a powerful argument against guns. — Garth
I believe the point of the article was to expose the root cause of 30 needless deaths, not keeping the scam gun registry alive.
You`re politicizing but as you are;
Australia did a gun collection, stabbing deaths went up dramatically. Since the Cdn gun registry was enacted only 3 people have been killed by guns.
Should have read registered long guns
Yesterday was tragic. I hope it is not politicized, other than as a powerful argument against guns. — Garth
Yup – they need to have a registry for those illegal guns – you know the ones that the serial numbers have been wiped out.
Hey how about getting the real mental help that these sick individuals need? Not some political platitudes!
By Geoffrey L. on 04.17.07 11:37 am,
let me connect the dots for you. The example I used didn’t necessary equate Nortel shares with ITs. The example I used was to illustrate the short term greed by investors.
Nortel was also a low to medium rate of return. Then, investors and short sighted CEO and execs wanted to grow the company fast and achieve high rates of return. This was not a good business decision. The company has been in the toilet for the last few years.
The ITs give investors a higher rate of return for investors AND siphen tax dollars to foreigners. While in the immediate, the current investors were laughing, but, this scheme was not maintainable and was risky for the longer term economic benefit to Canada.
I for one am tired of hearing whining stories how some investors. Many of investors earned a higher rate of return so when they lost some of their investment value, they probably still had much left on top of their original prinicple investment. And, they should be looking to blame themselves for their own greed!
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.17.07 2:51 pm
He did answer the Question Bill. He said he`s getting it done on rights and the Libs didn`t get it done.
Have you considered you`re upset because you didn`t hear the answer you wanted?
Rope,
I will check Hansard and then reply, unless you are spoofing, because we all know that is all the Parrot of Parliament Hill can say? LOL
Catherine,
Hey how about getting the real mental help that these sick individuals need? Not some political platitudes!
HOLY! Catherine have you been Dipping today? (Shaking head in amazement!)
Catherine on 04.17.07 4:10 pm
Again, what greed? Do you mean the greed of the Department of Finance mandarins and some corporate executives who would rather simplify the tax system in Canada, so that individuals just get high taxes taken off their pay cheques and corporations pay little to know taxes. Income trusts in the majority of cases distribute monthly distributions to those who would accept the tax liability. Investors who require monthly distributions are mostly seniors who held income trusts in their RRIF accounts. Do you think that it is greedy to pay one’s monthly bills?
Catherine, I agree with you in regards to the shootings. Removing the gun doesn’t take away the mental illness and as GGF has pointed out, they can easily stab people and then, are they going to ban knives???