Dan Baril was in the news this week. He quit as strategist to the Green Party and its effusive leader Elizabeth May after the Greens and the Liberals announced an entente in Nova Scotia.
Thus ended a relationship which began months earlier when I asked Dan to drive to Pearson Airport, pick up Elizabeth, and bring her to my house. The two of them clearly hit it off in the course of that drive, and weeks later Dan found himself being enmeshed in a political vortex of emails, phone calls and strategic decisions. Elizabeth, clever and experienced in so many ways, was obviously in need of a political rudder.
It was Dan that I asked to join me in a pivotal meeting with May and her top three people in my Ottawa condo building a couple of weeks before Christmas – after she shocked pundits and came second to Glen Pearson in November’s by-election in London. It was that meeting, and another soon afterwards in my Milton office, also with Dan present, that led to the final decision that joining the Green Party would be the wrong move for me.
Along the way, Dan worked with me as an advisor, while he was being relied upon more and more by Elizabeth and her senior people, juggling his priorities while he carried out proprietary polling. Eventually he ended up being on contract with the Greens, intimately involved in a myriad of issues, including the one that led to the unprecedented liason between May and Dion last Friday.
I first met the guy during the autumn of 2005 after he’d sent a lengthy email my campaign offering to help. We met in the campaign office where I learned his background as a pollster, as a colleague of Alan Gregg, a focus group facilitator and now a self-employed strategist for corporate clients. An Oakville resident, perfectly bilingual, and the author of impossibly long and twisted emails, I found him intriguing but thought he was really trying to land a gig with the Conservative Party, through me.
My opinion changed radically after I staggered through an all-candidates debate, came home and read a detailed analysis of the event, and my messaging flaws together with suggestions, in an email from Dan. I tried those remedies out in the next debate, and used my opponent to clean the gym floor.
Over the course of my being elected, the stormy months in the Conservative caucus, and then my ouster at the hand of the prime minister, Dan was a key advisor. He attended Town Hall meetings, came to Ottawa on his own dime, and produced some wise and insightful reports on my rapidly thinning political future. It seemed only natural, as I came to understand being an independent MP in today’s Ottawa is a losing game, that Dan be a part of my response to the Green Party’s overtures.
So I asked him to pick up Elizabeth. Little did I know then that the guy would end up being architect of the Cinderella ending in the London North Center contest, turning May from a media curiosity into a national political force, and eventually leading to a leader-to-leader pact with the head of the Liberals. But he did. One over-written email at a time.
I certainly knew Dan had mixed feelings on the event announced last Friday, and that he’d given Elizabeth strong and clear advice. I knew she had chosen not to take much of it. I also knew how central Dan had been in leading the Green pitch to the media consortium which will decide who is in the next election’s leaders’ debate – a podium the environmentalist is desperate to grip. And I knew he’d warned her they were mutually exclusive.
In the end game, Elizabeth made her own decisions. Central Nova, instead of London, for example. Unqualifiedly endorsing Dion for prime minister, creating confusion within Green ranks, for another. I think the parting was professional and free of animosity, though. At least that’s what May told me when I visited her in the public gallery of the House of Commons on Monday. Seems to me an inevitability his phone will be ringing again.
In the meantime, he can worry about me, which has ended up being a full-time emergency on its own. And he does it, incredibly, as a volunteer. I’m just so happy I don’t pay him by the email.
Read Dan Baril’s blog here.
89 comments ↓
I thought the decision to run in Central Nova was dumb and probably showed a lack of judgement. The decision to agree to limit the freedom of choice of voters in two ridings was just stupid and a serious lack of judgement (of both leaders).
My wife and I have both voted Green the last two elections because we’re fed up with the other parties. They’ve just lost big time – $3.50!
Now we don’t have many or even any choices left.
* Do we vote Liberal? A party that lies to get elected (e.g. Pierre Trudeau – Wage and Price Controls) and signs agreements and then does nothing (e.g. pick one)
* Do we vote Conservative? A party that seldom has run a literate candidate in our riding (Joe Clark ran a taxi driver, who I suspect was selected because he knew his way around!)
* Do we vote Bloc? Just kidding
* Do we vote NPD who think no one should take responsibility for their lives and that the government should look after them?
I think our choice is going to be Conservative if we get a candidate who can walk and chew gum au meme temps. Otherwise we’ll have to decline our ballot and that sucks!!
I feel exactly as you do gebou but i would suggest you read by comment on the post Towers of Gold:
By PJW on 04.18.07 5:13 am
There is something very disturbing about a party who decides which MP’s constituents will be heard in the House.
A real threat to democracy based on personal dislike…I find that a bit scary.
To GENOU;
Good call. The only option in Canada right now is the Conservatives.
If your looking for a balanced viewpoint, this blog isn’t it.
Half the people who post here frequently are brain dead. And some, like JACKIE CHAN’S LEFT HAND, must be in an institution.
I wonder what the political cost of this move will be to Elizabeth May? If she gets elected to the HoC, which i doubt she will, will she be forced to vote along Liberal party lines?
The deal not to run a green candidate in Dion’s riding in return for the Liberals not running a candidate in the Nova riding is silly! Like any green candidate has any sort of chance against Dion.
It has been proven time and time again that the left-wing party can be bought in the HoC (Smiling Jack is proof of this) – I guess that tradition will continue if Elizabeth May gets elected.
So essentially a vote for Elizabeth May will be a Liberal vote. That is too bad…
My 2 cents…
Garth,
my continuing gratitude for my continuing political education.
I’ve suspected for a long time that differences in stated philosophy between parties mean very little. It’s getting power, then using that power pragmatically – every government is limited in its range of possibilities by given realties – that is the actual issue in every election and constraint in action for every government.
And every political party may not be controlled by “insiders” – what I call “apparatchiks” whether paid full time or not – but it is run by them. Whether these are good or bad depends on the results – power, and good or bad government, perhaps reduced to efficient or inefficient government.
Which takes me back to my way of voting by judging the behaviour of the “pigs at the trough”: party platforms be damned, reinforce success, punish failure.
If Eddie Goldenberg had not used the phrase, you might sub-title your blog “The Way It Works.”
Forman,
having once again exposed yourself as a member of the neo-Con “truth” squad, shut up.
Eric…I would say this is pretty balanced, your comments are allowed?
Eric Foreman
My guess is your Dutch and you are diffily one of old once You still living wen you were 16 Big BRAIN DEAD You cant have a clue You could use some help so you get past the 16
Eric: Go ahead, choose the Cons-you will continue to get lies, deceit, smears, flips, flops, bad governing, lack of transparency, millions of wasted dollars spent on Quebec votes, plus a P.M. with a full-time make-up artist!!
Canadian Tax Payers Federation to fight McGuinty’s 25% pay hike for MPPs..sign the petition against this!
http://www.torontofreepress.com/2006/desai121806.htm
To GENOU;
I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
Usually, your local MP or riding association will have a web site dedicated to providing you with information. Each party also has a web site. Do your research!
And don’t be deterred in your options and your beliefs. Just look at these two comments:
Eric…I would say this is pretty balanced, your comments are allowed? – PJW
This is a fair comment. A point well made.
Forman,
having once again exposed yourself as a member of the neo-Con “truth†squad, shut up. – Herb
This is a comment by a person who obviously had nothing to say, and is so threatened by his own beliefs, that he had to resort to name calling. Don’t let these infantile comments get to you!
Benou, love your analysis of the parties.
GENOU,
I enjoyed reading your post. I also believe you are quite intelligent enough to recogonize and deal with Eric Foreman, like a predator in waiting, who went after you like a raven on fresh road kill.
Make up your own mind. Welcome to the blog, and please contribute your thoughts and ideas freely!
Eric: Go ahead, choose the Cons-you will continue to get lies, deceit, smears, flips, flops, bad governing, lack of transparency, millions of wasted dollars spent on Quebec votes, plus a P.M. with a full-time make-up artist!! – JUDY
Thanks Judy for your approval of me choosing Conservative. I really needed that!
Thanks for pointing out that my right to have an opinion must go through Liberal approval first.
Garth, thanks for being frank to tell the story. For a long time, I just had this vague feeling that all the parties are fundamentally the same; but I did not know the exact or direct reason (except that they all love power), until reading your post. Now I know, one main direct reason is that the parties all rely on these pollsters.
I listened the interview of Baril on CBC AIH. The conclusion was that I could never ever be a strategist.
I doubt if Mr. Baril ever really understand the real reason of May and Dion’s move.
He worried about the confusion of the move might post on the CAMPAIGN in the rest of ridings cross the country. If campaigning means how to attack other parties, sure he is right. But to me, campaigning is to present your party policy and your candidate to the voters and let them to make decision, regardless who are the other parties running. I know I am too naive in saying so. But I think the merit of Dion/May move is to invite voters to seriously look into party policies and issues rather than just vote for the sake of parties.
Sometimes, I think these pollsters are just too smart to find their hearts; or maybe I am too stupid to understand them.
I am happy Baril has left Green, otherwise Green could well possible just be another Con/Lib/NAP.
Dear Genou,
Showing up at the polling place and declining your ballot is a legitimate and legal vote.
By showing up at the polling place and exercising your prerogative not to vote for any party and/or candidate you are fulfilling your obligation to vote.
By your own admission, Genou, you and your wife have been casting a vote against all parties for the past two elections by voting Green. So tell me how exactly declining your vote at the polling place is any different from what you have already been doing except for the fact that you will not be donating $3.50 (in 2004 dollars, now something like $3.60) to the Green Party?
Or maybe you’re saying you’ll vote Conservative because you consider them as useless as a seatless party?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
MB
To GENOU;
I also welcome you to this blog.
As someone who has frequented this blog for quite some time, I have some advice.
Contribute your thoughts and ideas freely on this blog. However, if they have a Conservative slant, then be prepared to face some illogical rantings from the likes of BILL-MUSKOKA or JACKIE CHAN’S LEFT HAND. Even after heaping uninformed abuse your way, don’t let it deter you. Just tell them your opinion is your own and that you can’t be brainwashed.
Genou, I think you are wrong about EM deciding to run in Central Nova. Had she run in London she would have received very little press and what real ammunition could she have used against the other candidates. Now running against Peter makes a great deal of sense. She is from NS and has red tory roots. Many PCs are angry at Peter since he has sold out the PC and joined the Neocons and has not well represented his riding. She will give him a good run for his money and the press will cover her every word she speaks. The Green Party should stand behind her since they have made very little inroads and you can’t buy the publicity that she might receive. Those who wish to vote Green should do and those who want to get rid of Harper may need to vote Dion. Electing even one or two members would be a victory for EM and it will allow her to promote the party when she makes it to the House.
David Velo
I am happy Baril has left Green, otherwise Green could well possible just be another Con/Lib/NAP.
I concur. When I was a young lad there was a sign posted in the office I worked in. It read ‘If you work for someone then in God’s name work for them. if you cannot abide by their decisions then maintain your integrity and kindly seek employment elsewhere!’
Davis Baril is a ‘party thinker’ it seems. i do not personally know the man, but I do know the mentality.
This is not a hockey game or a series, it is, despite the common perception, an endeavour that will be won one vote, one riding at as time. Polls will not win this endeavour, neither will attack ads.
Some believe they must have a majority simply because they cannot bear to entertain other ideas.
Other, realize the best solutions are those derived from intelligent informed thought and concepts of all the participants.
Yet, for an individual situation, specific to a person, that person should make the final decision.
I have read Elizabeth May’s reasons, and see an open and honest set of values expressed. It is merely fortunate she finds those reasons to be satisfactory in the riding of one Peter MacKay. She, and the Green Party have my support, as does Garth, and any other person of integrity who seeks to give of themself serving on my behalf in either our Parliament of Legislature.
I am not interested in labels, I am interested in honest people who I can trust behind my back, and with access to my wallet. Such people have become rarer and rarer in this world.
An MP or an MPP is someone I entrust, or not, with voicing my opinion in the formal forum of democracy. I not only expect, but demand integrity and while I can excuse some misadventures, I shall not excuse outright deception.
“having once again exposed yourself as a member of the neo-Con “truth†squad, shut up. – Herb
This is a comment by a person who obviously had nothing to say, and is so threatened by his own beliefs, that he had to resort to name calling. Don’t let these infantile comments get to you!
By ERIC FOREMAN on 04.18.07 8:38 am”
And this from someone who has nothing better to do in life than drink and spit neo-Con Kool-aid?
“Thanks for pointing out that my right to have an opinion must go through Liberal approval first.”
Forgive me, but just because someone posts here and makes comments does not necessarily mean they speak for the Liberal party? I assume what you meant to say was her approval. Even taking that a but further, let me ask you a question? Mr. Harper lied to the electorate on income trusts…does that mean all Conservatives are liars? I think not!
Don’t let these infantile comments get to you!
By ERIC FOREMAN on 04.18.07 8:38 am
And another Neo- Con. would not call names???????
Eric, your “neo” is hung out to dry. Again.
I might add one more thing Eric, I think people are fairly astute at figuring out who speaks to the issues and who throws around insults, I really don’t think we need a moderator to explain to people who is for and against us, so to speak. I give people credit to be able to discern this for themselves.
Whoops, I meant Genou not Benou. Excuse the typo.
Now speaking of issues, which party is going to address the disconnect between the amount municipal and provincial governments exact for such things as energy, markey value assessment, and taxes and the cost of living indexing the feds apply to pensions based on the C.P.I.? If infaltion is running at 2% or less according to the Feds, how come all the necessities of life are approaching double digits? Me thinks someone is cooking the books?
A.R. Wainwright, may I ask you what your definition of neo-con is? Thanks a mil.
PJW,
Mr. Harper lied to the electorate on income trusts…does that mean all Conservatives are liars? I think not!
Exactly. Neither are Liberals, or Dippers. What is frustrating is when we see those who are honest set their integrity aside to condone the Hush Control of people like Harper.
Harper needs a serious lesson, which personally I think he is incapable of comprehending, that a leader serves. A leader does not dictate, but works to preserve the well-being of the whole, yet never forgetting the whole is made up of its individual parts, not just some parts.
A real leader will seek out, in open forum, the best ideas on any subject.
A dictator,(not a leader, but a scared immature person) has a deperate need to always be right, always be in control, and cannot bear the thought of anyone having a better idea or plan than they do.
I think Harper’s next job will be playing the role of the neo-con Fearless Leader in ” ‘V’ is for Vendetta II”, the sequel. Bush will probably be cast as Igor, his faithful, but not too bright, Gopher! Maybe they will film it in the new ‘CPC Death Star’ facility?
Can Bill Muskoka, or anybody out there throw more light on E M’s belief in Theosophy, and what part that may play in her decision-making?
I understand that Theosophy is not a religion, but is rather a “science,” a science that is based on Divine Wisdom.
Could anybody please enlighten us further about Ms. May’s beliefs in this time of esoteric wisdom, and how these beliefs may inform her decisions?
Contribute your thoughts and ideas freely on this blog. However, if they have a Conservative slant, then be prepared to face some illogical rantings from the likes of BILL-MUSKOKA or JACKIE CHAN’S LEFT HAND. Even after heaping uninformed abuse your way, don’t let it deter you. Just tell them your opinion is your own and that you can’t be brainwashed.
By ERIC FOREMAN on 04.18.07 10:49 am
No,to be brainwashed requires the person to actually possess a brain .
How much do they pay you ‘Truth Squad ‘ members to post this drivel ?
Could anybody please enlighten us further about Ms. May’s beliefs in this time of esoteric wisdom, and how these beliefs may inform her decisions?
By Nike Nichols on 04.18.07 11:49 am
Doesn’t matter. Both PM Martin and Chretien were Catholics and it did not effect nor inform their decisions in the least .
Personally I practice Animism .
The church evern tried to have Msrtin excommunicated for his stance on womens rights . He didn’t buckle under .
Spiritual beliefs are only a small part of the human psyche .
The church evern tried to have Msrtin excommunicated for his stance on womens rights . He didn’t buckle under .
Spiritual beliefs are only a small part of the human psyche .
Um, just a note of fact here. The Church either excommunicates or it doesn’t. It doesn’t try, it does or it doesn’t. At the same time, if the Church actually wanted to do it, it would have done it. That’s not to say that many people would want this but they are not the Vatican. I would be in support of excommunication but it isn’t up to me because of Martin’s stance on abortion. By the way, abortion is not a right. If you believe it is, please indicate as to where this official right was given. Thanks.
Hogan,Foreman and Rope looking for friends in all the wrong places .
Theosophy is derived from two Greek words –Theos , God; Sophia, Wisdom –and is therefore God-Wisdom, Divine Wisdom.
http://www.theosophical.ca/TheosophyAB.htm
Garth,
thanks for the insight, and the pointer to Dan’s blog. I really, really dig it when you write about what’s happening behind the scenes, and this post exemplifies that for me.
If Dan is serious about his blog, he should also have an RSS feed. Lots of people do their surfing through RSS readers exclusively now, and not having one cuts him off from that readership.
To those of you with panties bunched up over the existence of political advisers, get over it. Whatever your political stripes happen to be, they don’t have much traction if your representative isn’t elected first. Advisers provide a necessary and pragmatic view. That doesn’t mean that they dictate policy. You’ll note that this post, and Dan’s most recent as well, are about how his advice was ignored.
Could anybody please enlighten us further about Ms. May’s beliefs in this time of esoteric wisdom, and how these beliefs may inform her decisions?
I am sure Ms. May could….send her an e mail!
Personally I practice Animism . – JCLH
I thought your practised stupidity.
From Dan’s blog:
And, if Ms. May is sincere in her statement that she wants to see Mr. Dion as Prime Minister over Mr. Harper, then she too must also tell all Greens to vote Red. If they both don’t do this, how else is Mr. Dion supposed to win more seats than Mr. Harper? Failing this, the state of confusion that has been created is only going to cause vote splitting which, taken to its logical conclusion, Mr. Harper has been handed a second gift, a Majority.
Fourth, Elizabeth you need to pull a rabbit out of the hat to win against Mr. MacKay. It will be difficult, perhaps even impossible.
The first point I am not sure that a majority will happen. I don’t believe that environmentalism is that high on the every day average voter simply because of the rhetoric.
The second point however, I am in complete agreement. Even with the Liberal and Green vote combined, would not give them the numbers to pass even the NDP in this riding.
Jackie Chan’s left hand, who is looking for friends? What is your obsession with this??? Very strange.
Now speaking of issues, which party is going to address the disconnect between the amount municipal and provincial governments exact for such things as energy, markey value assessment, and taxes and the cost of living indexing the feds apply to pensions based on the C.P.I.? If infaltion is running at 2% or less according to the Feds, how come all the necessities of life are approaching double digits? Me thinks someone is cooking the books?
By PJW on 04.18.07 11:24 am
I thought the government(?) had promised a share of the gas tax . Guess I’m wrong.
(Garth, perhaps this comment got lost in Berryland earlier? LOL)
Nike,
You previously stated, if I recall correctly, that you believe in science, and basically, only those things that can be measured scientifically?
Therefore, trying to explain ‘Divine Wisdom’ which could also be described as ‘insight’, ‘creativity’, ‘artistry’ seems to be a futile effort to dispense to your mindset. I am not being insulting, I am being forthright and honest, based on your own statement.
Consider this thought “Religion will tell you what to think. Philsophy will teach you how to think.” Theosophy, is merely applying all the acquired wisdom of the ages and applying the scientific principles included in the same.
As Einstein said ‘Chance favours the prepared mind!’ That literally means a mind that has studied, questioned, remains open to new concepts, has humility, and seeks truth realizing the continuous dynamic nature of thought and reality relative to the individual.
It is wise to remember that the ancients knew far more than we give them credit for. Mankind went from a Golden Age to the Dark Ages. It was the Gnostic (to know versus agnostic meaning cannot know) thinkers like Ashmole, Newton, Boyle, and the other founders of the Royal Society, who brought mankind back to a rational state of logical thinking following centuries of ‘religious’ rule by the Vatican. Not one of those great minds held the belief that God did not exist, but rather, God was present, and guiding in our thoughts and perceptions of reality, yet they acknowledged they had the freedom to think, to question, to be truly inquisitive, and to ask for assistance through Divine Wisdom.
They were not Fundamentailists, nor literalists, they held a spiritual belief that they could, and were obligated to seek out the truth in all matters, scientifically, philosophically, and spiritually. They envisioned themselves as part of Creation, not apart from it. Their work was taken, and filtered by modern science to exclude Divine Wisdom, which was the energy that gave them the greatness they had.
A poignant analysis is perhaps contained, with clues for those able to discern truth, in the following in looking at a forest:
A biologist would see those items particular to their own area of study.
A forester would see the trees, their species, and the potential for profit.
A daywalker would not necessarily know what the former two know, but would see the beauty the forest offers.
A Theosophist would know what the former three know, but would also see the interconnecting reasons for all of the forest, its ecosystem, how one small thing makes a much larger impact, etc.
Elizabeth May’s openness is available for your personal perusal on the Green Party of Canada website. I would recommend you read it, draw your own conclusions, and realize I cannot, nor do I claim to speak for her or any other person. I speak for myself, based on my acceptance that we each are made of three basic parts; our spitirtual, our experiential, and our cultural, as are all people. That, put into a mathematical equation would mean that one would ned to take all the spiritual beliefs times all the experiential knowledge times all the cultural beliefs times 6 billion people to define mankind.
I will see if I can locate a passage in my book an Gnostic Philosophy which beautifully states the ages of man. When I have a moment I shall do so and post it here for your persual and consideration. Fair enough?
I thought your practised stupidity.
Nope, you have the copywrite on that, Eric!
I think Jackie Chan’s left Hand has made an interesting point: just because someone is a Catholic doesn’t mean they will vote in a way that every Catholic would (although i’m not sure whether Martin or Chretien where, but oh well).
So ya, for me, faith in politics is to be a moral compass (not used as a tool to win votes, the way U.S Pres GWB is famous for doing). For me, my Christian faith causes me to deeply question and analyze the views of ALL political parties, regardless of who runs them and such.
To give you an example, just because Harper is an evangelical christian doesn’t mean i’ll be guaranteed to vote for St.John’s South-Mt. Pearl Conservative MP Loyola Hearn in the next federal election.
Instead, i’ll weigh out Loyola Hearn’s takes on the issues, how he gets along with his leader,the CPC platforms, the alternative parties,etc…
I think that if we focused more on voting for the best local candidate, instead of strategically voting for a candidate we dislike because we want a certain party to form government is part of the reason effective representation has reached the new low it has today (although I must applaud Mr.Turner on his blog and the way he does things).
So ya, I’m totally in favor of a MMP system (a mixed member-proportional system) in which we’d still have local MPs like we do today, but also, 100 proportionally-based seats, so for example, if the Green Party got 5% of the national vote, the Green Party would fill those 5 seats with the 5 GPC candidates who got the most votes.
Indeed, this would allow people to choose the best regional MP, while still voting for the best party:making for better government and opposition. Even though majority governments would all but disappear, many ‘majority’ governments are based on inflated majorities because of the way the votes are spread out.
Did you know that provincially in 1993, the New Brunswick Liberal Party only got 60% of the votes, and yet they won 100% of the seats (in effect, they had a 4-year one party ‘democratic’ dictatorship in which, unless individual members rebelled against the party, democracy was anything but obvious).
But hey, that’s my 2 cents and that’s why i’ll probably be voting for the NL First Party in the next federal election (once the party is registered, which is currently in progress). But hey, that’s because it’s been questionable as to whether or not Mr. Hearn has been able to independently rep. my district and he refuses to sit as an Independent!
Okay, it was about the church refusing to give Paul Martin communion which is vastly different from excommunication .
Father John Walsh, the town priest in Martin’s working class Montreal riding of LaSalle-Émard, told CTV News he’ll continue to give the sacrament no matter what the Vatican decides.
Good for him .
“A bishop’s role is not to forbid communion to people — that’s a sad necessity that may unfortunately from time to time occur,” he said, but only after much fasting, prayer and encouragement for the politician to repent and change.
From her perspective as a former nun turned Catholic pro-choice activist, Joanna Manning says the church’s staunch moral code is dividing believers.
Yea, no kidding .Can you say anachronism?
“The fight in the church is really between the right and the centre. The left have all gone and if it keeps fighting to the right — more conservative and more fundamental — soon the centre will have to leave too.”
Catholicism all but dead .
However communion is the most sacred sacrament the church has .
In a move that signals a shift in church policy from condemning homosexual acts, but not sexual orientation, the resolutely conservative pope will also consider a proposal to ban all gay men — whether celibate or not — from becoming priests.
Well good luck with that .
Hogan,Foreman and Rope looking for friends in all the wrong places . – JCLH
I have friends, thank you very much. I guess the concept of friends is a foreign concept to someone like you who has none.
Jordan said, I think Jackie Chan’s left Hand has made an interesting point: just because someone is a Catholic doesn’t mean they will vote in a way that every Catholic would (although i’m not sure whether Martin or Chretien where, but oh well).
Jordan, that would mean that Martin is no Catholic, as a person is a Cathloic 24 hours a day, its not a part-time thing.
Hogan,Foreman and Rope looking for friends in all the wrong places .
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 12:52 pm
Sry Scott, I`d be too embarrassed to be seen in public with you to be friends. and I`d be a fool to think any Liberal would put friendship ahead of their `entitlements`.
Too bad the polls have swung, looks Like Ms. May will have to wait a little longer to take over the Liberal leadership.
“No,to be brainwashed requires the person to actually possess a brain .” –Jackie Chan’s Left Hand
Garth, how did this one pass by you? How is calling someone brainless considered a constructive argument?
I thought the government(?) had promised a share of the gas tax . Guess I’m wrong.
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 1:43 pm
No jackie, I am talking about giving us 2% or less increase on our CPP and OAS pensions while the municipalities are talking about a 7 % hike in property taxes and the region another 7 % hike on water rates and so on….if it keeps going like this, we would have to sell our home…just looking for some kind of level playing field here.
Jordan, that would mean that Martin is no Catholic, as a person is a Cathloic 24 hours a day, its not a part-time thing.
By Sean P. Hogan on 04.18.07 2:07 pm
Unlike,say, being a card carrying member of the ‘Truth Squad ‘ .
No jackie, I am talking about giving us 2% or less increase on our CPP and OAS pensions while the municipalities are talking about a 7 % hike in property taxes and the region another 7 % hike on water rates and so on….if it keeps going like this, we would have to sell our home…just looking for some kind of level playing field here.
By PJW on 04.18.07 2:27 pm
Yea, I see your point PJ . I thought pensions were supposed to be indexed to COLA ?(cost of living allowances)
What does being a 24 hours a day Catholic mean? Does that mean one has to impose their beliefs on others or just live them? Would Bin Laden be a 24 hour Muslim in your eyes?
Too bad the polls have swung, looks Like Ms. May will have to wait a little longer to take over the Liberal leadership. – GET A ROPE
Yeah. The Liberals will need someone after Dion gets tossed.
PJW,
Here is my opinion, which I posted over in Garth-o-Meter as well.
“JCLH,
From ‘The Strategist’ topic
Jordan said, I think Jackie Chan’s left Hand has made an interesting point: just because someone is a Catholic doesn’t mean they will vote in a way that every Catholic would (although i’m not sure whether Martin or Chretien where, but oh well).
Jordan, that would mean that Martin is no Catholic, as a person is a Cathloic 24 hours a day, its not a part-time thing.
By Sean P. Hogan on 04.18.07 2:07 pm
Which would tend to indicate that Sean is a Catholic troll. Such knowledge can only come from being a particpant, probably something like Opus Dei. Another piece of the puzzle falls in place.
Ultra Conservative views (far older than today’s neo-cons who are just copycats of religious funnymentalism), homophobic, women are lesser beings and baby factories, men are superior, yada, yada, yada, using the backdoor to gain political influence, because the Vatican found out with JC and Martin intimidation is no longer working like it used to during the Inquisition! What they think of as ‘The Good Old Days!’
Same mentality also…always pleading for rational civility, which really means ‘conformity to their thinking.’
What we call an era of ‘Good Riddance!’”
“No,to be brainwashed requires the person to actually possess a brain .†–Jackie Chan’s Left Hand
Garth, how did this one pass by you? How is calling someone brainless considered a constructive argument?
By GGF on 04.18.07 2:10 pm
Cut Garth some slack. This is a Liberal blog so he has to let Scott Reids Liberal style arguments through.
Hey Bill, remember your post about ignoring me??? Stop your obsessions Bill. As well, its funny that you accuse me of being from the Opus Dei, a CPC member and so forth.
What does being a 24 hours a day Catholic mean? Does that mean one has to impose their beliefs on others or just live them? Would Bin Laden be a 24 hour Muslim in your eyes?
Calling Bin Laden a Muslim is an insult to Muslims. He is no Muslim. Now, let me ask you this, who’s beliefs do you want the government to follow because somewhere, sometime, they have to impose their beliefs.
Partisans and political strategists are narrow in outlook. Committed Liberals, NDP, and Conservatives are outraged at the Dion/May agreement because they are stuck in a political trap that supports the status quo of the moment.
Those of us who are unaligned like to see some respect in the system which today has virtually disappeared. When Jean Chretien ran as leader of the Liberal Party the PCs did not run a candidate against him and the Liberals did not run a candidate against Joe Clark when he ran in Kings-Hants. That level of respect within the political chatting classes is gone and many of us find its loss a major negative in Canadian politics.
Political opponents are now “enemies” rather than opponents and campaign headquarters are referred to as war rooms rather than campaign headquarters.
It is an era in which federal politics as a partisan endeavour has lost all its appeal and more and more I feel alienated from the political process.
I like the way politics has operated here in NS under several co-operative minority governments and I wish there could a return to the kind of federal politics which can be competitive without being nasty and disrespective. I can only dream!
Same mentality also…always pleading for rational civility, which really means ‘conformity to their thinking.’
Bill, this is a lie. I’ve said over and over that if anyone disagrees, fine, just be civil. Its so little to ask and yet seems so hard here.
Cut Garth some slack. This is a Liberal blog so he has to let Scott Reids Liberal style arguments through.
By get a rope on 04.18.07 2:55 pm
Well he lets you beat your little tin drum endlessly .
Droning on and on about the evils of daycare and how the whole generation will wind up in prison .
C.B. Innes, if you get into politics with that attitude, it would be a surprise but definitely most welcome.
C.B. Innes, if you get into politics with that attitude, it would be a surprise but definitely most welcome.
CB: I’d tell Hogan to get off his knees .
Now, let me ask you this, who’s beliefs do you want the government to follow because somewhere, sometime, they have to impose their beliefs.
I want each memeber to follow his/her own beliefs, however, I would like separation of Church and State. If Catholics, for example, are pro life, then let them practice it within their community, I will not impose choice on them. For those who have no formal religious affiliation, they should not have imposed on them the beliefs of others. Spirituality is a marvelous thing but religion tends to distort it quite badly, just the interpretation differential between the historical critical method and fundalmentalism among Christians is an enormous split. So my view is let the faith communities impose whatever they like on their members but not on public policy.
Yea, I see your point PJ . I thought pensions were supposed to be indexed to COLA ?(cost of living allowances)
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 2:39 pm
The pension indexing is based on the Consumer Price Index, the only problem with that is that it incorporates things that are not necessitities or at least things I wouldn’t see as necessary, e.g. computer products in one quarter fell 91%. That is great but we don’t eat or heat our homes with it. I better leave it there, I have been haranging all levels of government for about three years now on this issue and getting nowhere fast.
So my view is let the faith communities impose whatever they like on their members but not on public policy.
I accept that as an axiom .
PJW,
I could not agree with you more. Live and let live, and keep the religious beliefs out of our politics and lawmaking.
I accept that as an axiom .
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 4:14 pm
I had to look that word up but the definition sounds good to me!
Thanks for the info PJ.
Well he lets you beat your little tin drum endlessly .
Droning on and on about the evils of daycare and how the whole generation will wind up in prison .
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 3:30 pm
While I`m amused at the attempt to have a dialogue with me I still can`t be friends with you. Knock on a few doors in your institution, I`m sure you`ll find someone that is as lonely as you, perhaps even a soul mate.
Same mentality also…always pleading for rational civility, which really means ‘conformity to their thinking.’
Bill, this is a lie. I’ve said over and over that if anyone disagrees, fine, just be civil. Its so little to ask and yet seems so hard here.
By Sean P. Hogan on 04.18.07 3:26 pm
Sean, I can`t help but notice the quality of responses from lefty and far lefty has gone down hill since Garth banned fart jokes.
Time to bring this blog back up to the standards we`ve come to expect, bring back fart jokes.
C.B. Innes,
I like the way politics has operated here in NS under several co-operative minority governments and I wish there could a return to the kind of federal politics which can be competitive without being nasty and disrespective. I can only dream!
I have purported the Consensus approach that the NWT Legislature uses. No party designation, all MLA’s work to achieve the best outcome for ALL the people BEFORE a law is passed. When a bill becomes law there are very few complaints, because everyone has had their say, made their rebuttal, and ALL are satisfied.
To me that is the difference between true democracy and the pathetic excuse we witness in the HoC, and I mean from the CPC and PMSH. I heard some very good presentations from the opposition MP’s today. I did not hear equitable replies from the Harper Goon Squad.
That, unfortunately, requires a focus on the well being of ALL the people, not just those who contribute the most, or whatever other cipher is used to determine what is right and what is wrong.
Perhaps, someday, that will happen in the HoC, but I am not holding my breath!
Rope,
I will research proper fart jokes this evening. Please stand by! LOL
While I`m amused at the attempt to have a dialogue with me I still can`t be friends with you. Knock on a few doors in your institution, I`m sure you`ll find someone that is as lonely as you, perhaps even a soul mate. – GET A ROPE
Don’t be too hard on the guy. His meds haven’t kicked in yet.
Perhaps he can talk to one of his imaginary friends.
Blue and Green should never be seen except in a washing machine. I guess Red and Green are debatable. Perhaps, Mr. Dion knew that he would be put through the wringer on this one. Good luck!!! there is more than a grain of sense to it.
While I`m amused at the attempt to have a dialogue with me I still can`t be friends with you. Knock on a few doors in your institution, I`m sure you`ll find someone that is as lonely as you, perhaps even a soul mate. – GET A ROPE
Not in a million years.To debate you need a cerebral cortex something that is definitely missing from your package.
Don’t flatter yourself.
Not in a million years.To debate you need a cerebral cortex something that is definitely missing from your package.
Don’t flatter yourself.
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 6:07 pm
roflmao
Scott you know even less about anatomy than politics. The only people that have a package between their ears are dickheads like you.
http://tinyurl.com/yrpq9k
Liberal MP Garth Turner also took a shot at his former boss: “It’s a legitimate question. I think it’s an embarrassing one to him because he likes the cowboy image and not all cowboys wear powder.”
Happy trails to you…….
JCLH,
Wanna hear something really scarey? The Superintendent of the Police in Blacksburg, VA is also named Flaherty! Go figure?
A judge has denied an attempt by the federal Conservatives to delay a new nomination race in the Calgary riding held by MP Rob Anders.
Appeal Court Justice Connie Hunt says she realizes Anders will be inconvenienced by having to fight another nomination battle in Calgary West.
But Hunt also says party members should not be denied their democratic right to choose a candidate.
The Tories were trying to postpone a new 30-day nomination fight as ordered by a lower court judge last month after 11 disgruntled party members argued the Conservatives didn’t follow their own nomination rules.
They said the Tories gave insufficient notice of the nomination meeting and the only candidate who stepped forward to challenge Anders was denied a membership list.
The party still plans to appeal the original decision, but that isn’t expected to be heard until later this year.
Same crap different day .
JCLH,
I am truly glad to hear that the CPC is spending their member’s money feeding lawyers in legal actions. That must be elating to them?
JCLH,
I am truly glad to hear that the CPC is spending their member’s money feeding lawyers in legal actions. That must be elating to them?
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.18.07 8:40 pm
No kidding Bill. Flaherty,eh ?
Why am I not ,at all, surprised .
Must be a family of morons from the cave man era .
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.18.07 7:51 pm
JCLH,
Wanna hear something really scarey? The Superintendent of the Police in Blacksburg, VA is also named Flaherty! Go figure?
What an absolute idiot- Bill-Muskoka
OETR,
Really? Did you watch this guy on the news? Denial, obfuscation, and you need a better developed sense of humour.
One Old fart to another.!
C.B. Innes, if you get into politics with that attitude, it would be a surprise but definitely most welcome.
CB: I’d tell Hogan to get off his knees .
By Jackie Chan’s Left Hand on 04.18.07 4:00 pm
See the difference between you and me? I can be unpartisan and objective. Whereas you just proved C.B. Innes’ point about lack of civililty.
I want each memeber to follow his/her own beliefs, however, I would like separation of Church and State. If Catholics, for example, are pro life, then let them practice it within their community, I will not impose choice on them. For those who have no formal religious affiliation, they should not have imposed on them the beliefs of others. Spirituality is a marvelous thing but religion tends to distort it quite badly, just the interpretation differential between the historical critical method and fundalmentalism among Christians is an enormous split. So my view is let the faith communities impose whatever they like on their members but not on public policy.
By PJW on 04.18.07 4:06 pm
Didn’t answer the question, I ask you again, who’s belief’s do you want imposed on our government? If you support abortion, who are you to force that upon our society? Who are you to force your beliefs about abortion? See where I’m getting at? Again, who decides what is acceptable? Therefore, stating that the religious should keep quiet is unacceptable as you are denying their democratic right to speak out and expect their views not to be shut out by others just because they’re religious.
Sean, I can`t help but notice the quality of responses from lefty and far lefty has gone down hill since Garth banned fart jokes.
Time to bring this blog back up to the standards we`ve come to expect, bring back fart jokes.
By get a rope on 04.18.07 5:11 pm
Hmmm, I don’t know any fart jokes. This isn’t good, you’re going to have to do twice as many jokes to make up for my lackings.
By Bill-Muskoka on 04.18.07 10:48 pm
OETR,
Really? Did you watch this guy on the news? Denial, obfuscation, and you need a better developed sense of humour.
One Old fart to another.!
If while watching news coverage of the biggest massacre in US history, it occurs to you that you could use some tidbit to make a joke or score political points on this blog, then you either need to quit watching tv, or take some time off from blogging here for a while.
Really.
Well, tell you what. I, being from the Buckeroo Nation, view it as just another inevitable result of their culture.
They have had decades to deal with this repeated problem, but refuse to.
So, I do not get all emotional about it anymore. As to your opinion you are quite entitled to it, but don’t tell me what I can think or say.
As to the police department’s actions, they ‘DIDN”T DO THEIR JOB’, and watching all those over fed Kop Kibble munchers try to run was not encouraging either.
The campus should have gone into immediate lockdown, but no, it did not.
This looney was even found mentalty ill and dangerous by a court of law, yet no one was tracking him. How did he buy handguns? Failure of the system…total failure.
So, now we have the result. There will be many more, probably not as bad, but possibly worse.
Insanity is repeating the same act and expecting a different result. Preznut Bush went on air and just couldn’t bring himself to say ‘We need to stop the flow of guns in this country!’
Do I feel for the innocent victims? Yes, but after decades of such violence it comes as no shock to me. The news has turned it, like they do everything, into the item du jour, yet no preventative action takes place.
As Pogo said ‘We has found the enemy and they is us!’
BTW, do you care as much about the 138 Iraqis who were killed by multiple car bombs yesterday?
If while watching news coverage of the biggest massacre in US history, it occurs to you that you could use some tidbit to make a joke or score political points on this blog, then you either need to quit watching tv, or take some time off from blogging here for a while.
Really.
By Old enough to remember on 04.19.07 10:45 am
Wow, talk about a post that is so right on the money. Thank you sir.