Ezra Levant and Kevin Libin: This is not finishing school
Last week when I was in Ottawa a guy named Kevin Libin emailed me, saying he was working for the National Post and he wanted to do a story. “I’m writing about Mr. Dion’s willingness to enlarge the Liberal party tent to welcome outsiders, including non-Liberals—such as his recent announcement about Elizabeth May,†his note said.
So I called him. We did a 15-minute interview. I said I admired Dion for doing what he has to do – rebuild and renew the party after the Chretien-Martin years and the sponsorship scandal; plant the seeds for a policy renaissance taking the Libs into the centre lane; and reaching out to both the left (May) and the right (Turner) to try and do what Stephen Harper cannot – represent a broad spectrum of Canadians.
Libin was polite, sounded interested and hung up. Nice fellow, I thought. Which shows you how much of a judge of character I am.
The story in the National Post this weekend had a giant picture of Stephane Dion, and a headline underneath, ‘This gets dangerous’, which was attributed to “one Liberal insider.†Below that was a little cut-out head of Garth and one of Elizabeth with another headline, “With Friends like these…Dion’s new allies don’t like his policies.â€
The article itself contained just 16 words from our lengthy interview, and suggested that in time I may turn on Dion, “castigating Liberal policies or questioning his leadership.†The piece, designed as an anti-Dion rant, ended with this hopeful thought: “Big tents need plenty of structure to stand up. And the bigger Mr. Dion’s gets, the more it looks as though it might just come crashing down in a heap.â€
Sealing my fate as a Lib-hating Trojan horse were two quotes Libin ferreted from this blog from the Spring and summer of 2006, one in support of the Afghan mission, one about the Lebanon evacuation – which Libin dishonestly turned into an opinion of mine on citizenship, multiculturalism and immigration.
Now, I have two comments on this. First, I was a fool to talk to Kevin Libin without checking his creds. Turns out he is a Western Standard dude who hangs with Harper cheerleader Ezra Levant. Libin, 34, was editor-in-chief of the right-wing, Calgary-based magazine, and an Ezra friend since childhood. When it comes to journalism, Libin put his priorities this way to the Ryerson Review of Journalism, “I’d rather err on the side of drama than on the side of dullness.” Interesting that “accuracy†did not make his short list.
Second, Mr. Libin, apparently being a Conservative supporter, has adopted well the current Con passion for using my own words to nuke me. As readers here will now, this happened several times over the last few days, with Jim Flaherty, John Baird, Peter van Loan and the Conservative Party web site all joining in the fun. Paragraphs, sentences and sometimes single words were lifted out of past articles, glued together where necessary, and used to prove that (a) I support the taxing of income trusts, (b) I think a Kyoto-style climate change strategy will destroy the economy, (c) I support the new budget and (d) I hate Liberals.
Expect more of this, of course. Lots more.
Some of my friends and folks whose opinions I value have urged me to mitigate the damage by erasing past entries on this blog – things I might have written after the last election, or when I was dancing around the prime minister or when I was striving to give both sides to issues in the public spotlight. They have warned me that unscrupulous, partisan and agenda-driven people like Flaherty, Baird and Libin will continue to pull things out of context and use them to raise doubts about my credibility, motives or principles.
And they’re right. It will happen. There will not be a single time I stand up in the House that a government minister does not call me a floor-crosser and insist I resign, knowing full well the Conservatives threw me out, that I sat as an Indie, and belonged to no party when I joined the Liberal caucus. But this is politics. It is not finishing school. Here you get more points for being a bully.
In any case, I have considered taking the easy way out and deleting some of the 1.3 million words published here. After all, no politician in this country’s history has ever left such droppings in his wake. Given that this is equivalent to more than 20 books, it stands to reason there will be lots of sentences for critics to shove up my proboscis
But, it’s not going to happen. What I have written here, day by day by day, as it happened to me, as events transpired, as politics unfolded in inches or in floods, is a rolling history. It reflects not only the developments of each daily cycle, but also the thoughts they engendered. As meaningful as the chronology itself is the interpretation, the emotions and the conclusions. Some, time may prove to be prescient. Others may prove misguided.
When I was first elected, I held Mr. Harper in high regard. That changed with exposure to him. When I first sat and had coffee in a Toronto hotel with Jim Flaherty, I had no reason to believe him capable of erasing $25 billion in private savings. When I walked into the Conservative caucus, I could never have known the cliquish and unspoken moral code in operation there. When I went to Ottawa to represent Halton, I could not have imagined I’d be asked to put a party before my voters. I could not even dream of being ousted. Being an independent. Becoming a Liberal. Discovering that across the floor – among those people my former colleagues had so vilified and constantly ridiculed – there is an open democratic spirit which would restore my hope after a year of turmoil, conflict and abject disappointment.
So, no deletions. No apologies. No explanations. If I’m about to hang, my own words will be the executioner.
128 comments ↓
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, Global Warming issue and some ideas to think about;
Any serious attempt to cut green house gas emit ions quickly,
So we stop the increasing the level of global temperature change that man has already put into motion, and not put out the lights, one need to look at the CANDU nuclear energy generation to replace all the oil, natural gas and coal burning electrical generating plants.
To learn lots more go to http://cna.ca/english/index.asp
Find out the facts about CANDU produced electricity for your self, because I’ve heard more then a few pieces of information about nuclear energy floating around that is just not true!
Remember it isn’t always windy or sunny on the hottest days and coldest nights.
Nuclear plants don’t emit CO2 or radiation. The waste is same in volume and store safely. Yes some CO2 is produced mining and processing the fuel,
But one hundred times as much CO2 is avoided by deployment of the CANDU fuel cycle in place of coal plants in Canada than is released by CANDU construction, the fuel production process, and decommissioning.
The used fuel still has lots of energy potential in it and it could be recycled also
Like the French are doing.
(I if it interesting that the environmental Minister John Baird was in charge of OPG
Ontario Power Generation, when there were all thaws big cost overruns, and the Walkerton water disaster was taking place. His record of leadership does not give me
Any confidence that he is capable of understanding the problems or willing to getting the job done, before we ALL run out of time to try and fix the global warming crises.
You can have an economy only if you have an environment you can live in.)
Coal burning, releases into the air lots of CO2, mercury, dust and a bit of radiation also.
Coal can have some uranium in it, depending on the other rocks it’s near.
Even Tim Fannery thinks if we are going stop dumping CO2 into the atmosphere as quickly as possible, stop a runaway global warming effect, we need to look at the nuclear energy option.
Tim Fannery wrote ‘The Weather Makers. How we are changing the climate and what it means for life on earth.
David Suzuki said about his book, “This is one of the most important books of this young century….an urgent call to action that we cannot afford to ignore.â€
http://www.harpercollins.ca/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0002008319
An other good book to read is; Kicking The Carbon Habit, Global Warming and the Case for Renewable and Nuclear Energy, by William Sweet.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/023113/0231137109.HTM
We will also need to improve the building insulation codes for ALL buildings, new and old.
Geothermal heating and air conditioning would then be most useful, if your home is properly insulated in the first place. It will still heat and cool your home when oil and gas runs out, as long as you have some electricity to run the small pump and fan.
Some renewable like home solar would help to, as the cost of solar energy continues to improves. Wind can work when the wind is blowing, Not practical ever were. And you need energy to make the materials to make the windmills solar panels.
We need to change/improve the auto emit ion requirements. Hopefully build the new vehicles hear in Canada.
(Inventing and Manufacturing produces in Canada contributes to our collective wealth.)
To see what is now possible with the NEW battery technology
Go to http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/
Write to the car manufactures and tell them you are going to buy a plug in hybrid
As your next vehicle so you can reduce your carbon footprint.
Pure electric isn’t always practical so we could have hybrid plug-in with solar panels to help recharge the batteries. I hope I can recharge my new plug-in hybrid with renewable energy and CANDU electricity. Refill my hydrogen fuel cell plug in with hydrogen,
made from clean, safe, low cost, CANDU electricity.
I think Toyota has a plug-in Pruis with solar panel coming out in 2009.
The ‘Peak oil’ production is here and we need the remaining oil and natural gas to make fertilizer to grow food for X billion of us. Get it to food markets. We should be looking at growing more food we eat locally. Global warming is going to increase droughts worldwide. Urban sprawl whipping out productive farmlands is short sighted and fooling.
We are having trouble just feeding everyone know. Using good farmland to grow crops
to make ethanol seem very foolish in deed, especially when the CO2 deduction is really not that great when looking at the hole energy and CO2 cycle and we need to grow food.
Look at what has already happened to the price of corn!
There is an example of how to feed the population if we are suddenly cut of oil,
That would be the Cuban example after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
I would like Canada’s PM to be a Real leader!
Not one who seem to want to be a colony of the USA.
Write to the opposition parties, tell them you want to vote for a new leader,
The ‘new ‘ government is not to your liking.
It’s there job to make the government FALL if WE the people are not happy with the way we are being governed.
We ALL need to tell the opposition what you want them to do!
Dr. Patrick Moore: “When I helped organize the first Earth Day on my college campus in 1970, I never dreamed we’d be celebrating #35 this year, or that we’d come so far in cleaning up our environment. But the improvements are remarkable.
Since 1976, airborne sulfur dioxide has been reduced 72% … carbon monoxide 76% … lead 98% — according to the Pacific Research Institute’s annual Index of Leading Environmental Indicators. Automobile tailpipe emissions are down 95% from 1975 levels.
About 80% of US community water systems had no violations of health-based EPA standards in 1993. Last year, 95% had no violations.
For the past five years, our wetlands have increased by 26,000 acres a year — reversing years of decline. We’ve gone from 500 nesting pairs of bald eagles in 1965 to 7500 today, including a half dozen on the river where I grew up, less than a half mile from a big paper mill whose effluents once contaminated the area.
Progress since the “good old days” is even more dramatic. In 1905, average US life expectancy was 47 years; today it’s 78. Few homes had electricity; instead, coal and wood fires created clouds of pollution, and the average home generated 5,000 pounds of wood or coal ash a year.
Over 3 million horses worked in American cities — producing 11 million tons of manure and 9 million gallons of urine annually. Most got left on streets or dumped into rivers; during summers, manure dust was a primary cause of tuberculosis. In New York City alone, crews had to remove 15,000 horse carcasses from streets every year.
The arrival of automobiles changed all that. It also meant we no longer needed vast forage and pasture land for horses, modern farming began increasing production per acre, and we’ve been able to add a million acres of new U.S. forestland annually since 1910.
All is not rosy, of course. For instance, Alaskan stellar sea lion populations continue to decline, though exact causes are unclear. But overall — in sharp contrast to gloomy reports from some activist groups and news media — environmental progress has been steady, not only in the US but throughout the developed world.
So celebrate! Thank an environmental movement that initiated many of these improvements, before it lost its moral compass. Try to separate our true remaining ecological problems from those that are analyzed incorrectly, exaggerated or simply concocted to promote activist agendas.
Most importantly, remember that our remaining problems are relatively minor. Today’s truly serious health and environmental problems are in the poorest countries. That’s where we should focus our attention. That’s why we should have an annual People Day, when we can resolve to address real, immediate, life-or-death problems that threaten poor nations — rather than fixate on minor, distant, fashionable, theoretical problems.
The reality is, impoverished countries have little to celebrate.
Two billion of their people still don’t have electricity. Four in ten Indian families — 150 million households — do not. In sub-Saharan Africa, it’s nine of ten families.
The consequences are far worse than merely doing without modern homes, hospitals, schools, offices and factories. These families are forced to burn wood, animal dung and agricultural waste in unventilated homes — and live with constant toxic pollution that causes up to three million children to die every year from respiratory diseases.
And still radical greens conjure up specters of catastrophic global warming to justify their demands that the Third World not build coal or gas-fired power plants. Others use Earth Day to justify their campaigns against hydroelectric projects and nuclear power. The inevitable result, of course is perpetual deprivation, dung fires, poverty, disease and premature death.
Nearly a third of the human population likewise does not have safe drinking water. Families get water from distant wells, rivers and lakes that often teem with bacteria and pollutants. As Danish environmentalist Bjorn Lomborg points out, for the cost of implementing the Kyoto climate change treaty for just one year ($150 billion), we could permanently provide sanitation and clean, safe drinking water to everyone on the planet.
Mosquitoes, flies and fleas spread malaria, yellow fever, typhus and sleeping sickness to over a half billion people annually. Tens of millions become too sick to work, cultivate fields or care for their families for weeks or months on end. Each year, up to 4 million die.
It should be easy to control these diseases. We have the knowledge and tools — and we used them to eradicate these diseases in the United States, Europe, Canada and Australia. But extreme environmentalists, and even the World Health Organization and U.S. Agency for International Development, refuse to support, promote or fund a vital weapon in this war: pesticides — especially DDT. They say the chemicals might harm fish or be detected in mother’s breast milk.
“African mothers would be overjoyed if that were their biggest worry,” says Uganda’s Fiona Kobusingye. She may not know that modern instruments can detect one part per billion — a single second in 32 years. But she knows she lost her son, two sisters and two nephews to malaria. She knows her people are fed up with the death and eco-centric attitudes.
She also knows we support a monumental double standard. Americans and Europeans worry incessantly about pesticide residues on produce, and conjectural estrogenic effects of chemicals on women. We can afford to, because we no longer have to worry about killer diseases that still ravage Fiona’s continent. And yet, we still spray pesticides to kill mosquitoes that spread West Nile virus, which kills about 100 Americans a year.
“We have to become white, before we can become green,” states a new African proverb. Poor nations must first enjoy modern technology, health and prosperity, before they can focus on concerns that are important to the world’s lucky elites.
Obviously, eco-imperialistic western standards, ideologies and priorities are not the only cause of this monumental human tragedy. War, endemic corruption, and horrid political, legal and economic systems are also to blame.
We cannot easily fix these latter problems. But we can do something about our own misguided policies. We can rein in the runaway environmental Horsemen of the Third World Apocalypse.
So celebrate our progress. But at the same time, resolve to help poor nations reach our technological, economic, health and environmental status, so that more of their children live past infancy and can enjoy some of the blessings we view as our birthright.
As Congress of Racial Equality national spokesman Niger Innis notes, “There is no more basic human right than to live. Without life, the other rights mean nothing. Saving, sustaining and improving lives is the most fundamental form of environmental justice and corporate social responsibility.”
Earth Day was originally about our planet and its people. Let’s restore that common-sense approach”.
*APPLAUSE*
BRAVO!!!
Garth, How about addressing all your questions in the House to David Emerson or Wajid Kahn so you could get a non answer rather then being told to resign you floor crosser. If the Conservatives want you to resign then they should take the high road and make sure all of their MPs have been elected to represent the party they ran for. Good luck and congratulations for not deleting your past. It proves that you are a man of honour as you stand by your words. Regards
Well Garth I do see you as a credible politician — But opinions do change over time for the good and bad. Everyone should have an open mind to all thoughts from both the left and right.
I’m glad that u r telling the truth about income trusts and the environment.
I consider myself as a centrist . Right leaning on matters dealing with the military , law enforcemnet, foreign affairs and Finance. Left leaning toward the environment, Health care and equalization payments to the provinces.
*APPLAUSE*
BRAVO!!!
Thank you Garth Turner! I well appreciate what you mean about your words being taken out of context, restrung together, and then made to appear to mean something quite different than you meant it or that has been clearly altered by subsequent events and corroborating commentary. Yet this is a risk that applies to all in the internet age and this will become more and more common no matter who you are, and this is also obvious to anyone that actually lives in the information age, something Canadians tend to be fairly literate in given our internet connectivity and usage in this country. This blog is also as you say a record of how you have gotten from where you were when you started this blog to where you are now and where you will end up at when your run finally comes to an end whenever that may be, assuming you keep this blogging up of course until then. It is never a bad thing when a serving politician, especially one that makes waves provides such, both for the times and for posterity IMHO.
I believe that record of this evolution is very important. I am someone that has warned for many years about the type of politics that Harper truly embraces and which you have received a very painful and disheartening first hand encounter with. You are also one of the only people that can speak from a first hand observation position available to us that is talking now instead of down the road after the fact when it is too late to make a difference. While I do consider the potential of selectivity from you acting as a Liberal partisan, I am less concerned about that with you than I would be most pols of any political stripe because of your maverick history, which has been one where you appear to have followed your personal honour code as best as you have been able. I respect that, and it adds credence to your voice IMHO, and from what I have seen in your comments over the months this is true of many outside the Conservative attack machine and their freelancing chorus that comment here.
So I think you are making exactly the right decision, and that once Harper is defeated and his politics exposed for what they are and the damage he has already done in his limited time to our mechanisms of government acknowledged widely that this will provide a very good record of how it happened. I like the way you do politics, I certainly have never agreed with you on everything though, but then I have never agreed with any politician ever on everything that I can recall. However, overall you are clearly a loyal and proud Canadian unlike alas too many within the CPC leadership on down, you are the type of Progressive Conservative I respected before the rise of Reform/Alliance, and I think you are not only providing a valuable service here for constituents and the wider electorate with things like IT follow-up but to the historical record of the times by not deleting. I have always left my comments up once I write them wherever I do, and the same is true for the few at my blog. Anyone that expects stasis and consistency over the long term has embraced stasis and not change, and without change all living things start to die.
Bottom line I would trust in the intelligence of Canadians to tell that this is going on, especially when there is such an easy way to verify it. Which by not deleting you make more credible than by editing, something I also think makes this a good call. It also undercuts the CPC credibility when they make such easily debunked claims about you which further weakens them just like dripping water over time cuts through even stone.
I feel for you Garth and appreciate your candor. I am glad you have chosen the high road and keep your previous postings. I truly hope that there will be some other newspapers or news programs out there that show the TRUTH behind the matter and not just typical con spin.
Once again I thank you and your digi-democ ways. May you grace our political landscape for YEARS to come.
Good for you, Garth. Leave it up, that way people who want to can come back and see the actual context of the quotations (though those people will be few and far between); plus I’m sure that your critics have already archived it all to cherry pick at their leisure anyway.
You know, the more I read about you, the more I respect you and what you’re doing. I wish you were in my riding (Ottawa West) for voting.
Dear Garth,
Keep doing interviews with all reporters because it brings attention to this most excellent website/service that you provide us citizens!
I do, however, recommend that you tape each of your interviews and write them up in full and then link your full interview to the published story.
By providing both the full interview and the published story you will easily be able to destroy the credibility of intellectually dishonest “journalists” who abuse the power of their soapboxes.
Full disclosure is so illuminating. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Sincerely,
MB
Dear Garth,
I have been visiting your blog, watching MPTV for several months now. I’ve learned a lot, grown angry occasionally, laughed a great deal and through all of it my esteem and admiration for you (and several of your commentors) has grown exponentially.
I believe you to be brave, tough, stubborn and smart. Extra helpings of each I think. You can be very proud! And I would please like a signed copy of your book, should you ever get around to writing it:)
Traits which I belief M.Dion and Ms.May happen to share, as would Mr. Dryden and many others on the Liberal Team. I hope many on the Green Team can call upon these characteristics. They will have need of them.
I have been amusing myself by reading through what the assorted CPC members have accomplished prior to going into politics. What has come up is gardening (biz now closed), school (attending), past failed (prov. gov. positions (quite a few of those), family biz, a couple of lawyers of course, disc jockey, dog walker, lay preacher x2. I still need to check out a few more.
Interesting folk running the country these days no?
Ah, Garth! They taught us about scum-suckers like that at candidate school. ALWAYS know who you are talking to. And if they are based in Calgary…. Well. They probably don’t like Liberals. Sad, but true. Cheer up – at least you had Ken in your backyard
Re: Mr. Libin:
Garth, just remember if you have a room full of gimpanzee’s with typewritters, eventually, they’ll type the complete works of Shakespere.
So, check the creds next time, because the media right is full of gimpazee’s just typing away. Most of what comes out can best described as fiction based on fact.
Well, speaking of pathetic journalism – I read Jane Taber’s article about Dion and “who’s leader?” – she should be writing for the Inquirer.
Doesn’t she know this issue is just about over and WHO CARES?
I thought the Globe and Mail was a good newspaper and I don’t understand why they keep her on.
You know, you can’t even contact her with opinion or questions or anything. Contact info for her is no where to be found. Funny too, is that Taber is mocked and laughed at.
Jane Taber – if you’re reading this – please write something informative, important and interesting.
Garth;
Why must you always represent yourself as a victum?
You broke the rules of caucus, so you got tossed from the Party.
You engage in name calling yourself(i.e. calling Steven Harper “a political whore”), so you get name calling back in return.
You twist the facts on this web site to your advantage, so that’s what you get in return.
Suck it up. Stop acting like a five year old who runs home to their mommy crying.
If people are twisting your words, then disprove it. If you can, then it will work to your advantage (I’m guessing your can’t; I see the lies on you web site).
Name a lie, please. — Garth
Garth,
glad you are sticking to your guns. Neo-Con thinking notwithstanding, there still are lots of Canadians who use their heads, work with fact and logic, and recognize and detest propaganda for what it is.
Sadly, there are those who drink the appropriately-flavoured Kool-aid not recognizing that it is served by interests that serve mainly themselves. But Canada is too large, diverse and real a country to have the poor-in-spirit predominate.
Consider the attacks on you and your blog a compliment. The CPC neo-Cons would not waste effort and resources on you if what you say and stand for were not a threat to them.
Écrasez l’infâmie!
Hey Herb, there are so-cons within the CPC, are they neo-cons as well? What makes them a neo-con?
Now Garth, this is yellow journalism. CBC does this all of the time to people and that’s dishonest and this Libin guy too. I guess its tough to find an honest reporter.
Wow! Even the Toronto Star, the bigest Liberal supporter, is against Dian and Garth on Income Trust issue in today’s editorial:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/205638
And that’s an editorial, not an opinion piece, so it is the position of the paper.
Name a lie, please. — Garth
Do you consider Steven Harper to be a “political whore” (your words)?
If you do, then you have not lied.
Absolutely. Said one thing consistently, did another. Where did that Reform populist go? — Garth
My best advice (even though I wasn’t asked) is to ignore the rants and mistruths, ignore the statements taken out of context and continue to serve those who elected you.
In other words, choose your playing field.
Protect yourself when you can, but don’t play their game with them.
Just continue to shine a light on their actions as you have been doing and like roaches they will scurry and hide.
You can’t fight head on because if you have morals and integrity you will be at a disadvantage.
But most of all, just persevere.
Eventually, like the schoolyard bullies that they are, they just move on and find a weaker victim upon whom they can inflict their misery.
By slg on 04.23.07 7:45 am
She has a propensity, which is reinforced daily, to inject an unworthy note of lightness to either Commons proceedings or its members. Maybe she’s trying to replace Jan Wong as social commentator at the Globe.
She attempts to identify WHO’S HOT and WHO’S NOT, without giving or suggesting any reason for her opinion.
I know several people in government who are HOT but that’s because their claimed ‘credentials’ have been eclipsed by their stupidity.
One such example:
http://corrigan.ca/april22-07.jpg
More than faintly surprised at your masthead this morning containting the picture of Ezra Levant, editor of the Western Sub-Standard. We watched him once trying to justify the graphic attack on Muhammad by suggesting that Christ had been ‘miscast’ as the ‘pissing Christ.’ If such be the ‘intelligent opinion’ of westerners, we give them a wide berth.
Garth:
When your words are taken out of context, perhaps you could “table” and present the TRUE version to the Speaker – just a thought.
Talk about taken out of context – Baird tried to use Sheila Copp’s words against Dion and Kyoto.
Well, Sheila Copps has written about the Conservatives and how they obtained an opposite view, etc.
Her article, or course is in the “Sun” and is a good read.
Hi Garth,
I second the motion that you continue to speak to any reporter who wants to interview you, the exposure is worth it. But, obviously, in the future, you’re going to have to be much more cautious.
In your interview, drive them to your Web site by referring as much as possible to the pages and sections that bolster your comments and use Skype or some other VOIP so you can record every word.
An official record is your only proof. A professional reporter / journalist will honour that and have no probs w it. A reporter / journalist for a bird cage liner like the Western Standard might have an issue, though.
Here’s how you record a SKYPE conversation
http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20030930/265/
Best,
-R
SLG-Your so right about Jane Tabor.On Question Period,she comes across as a Bimbo.Would much rather see Rosemary Thompson on there.
Don’t worry about the press or the Cons,Garth-just keep doing what you’re doing.
If you weren’t a threatto them,you would be ignored.
“When I was first elected, I held Mr. Harper in high regard.”
Where’s the blog you wrote early in the morning following the Mississauga rally in January 2006 where you trashed Harper for daring to interrupt your busy schedule by asking you to introduce him?
What the heck are you talking about? — Garth
Sean,
we’ve been around the neo-con/neo-Con horn. Read the archive.
Garth,
So, no deletions. No apologies. No explanations. If I’m about to hang, my own words will be the executioner.
And most importantly, no coverup, CMA (Cover My Arse), or loss of credible integrity!
We may say things we wish we had not through the course of this life, but a person of truth and integrity admits when they have errored, not because of pressure or political interests and fortunes, but simply because they know right from wrong and live that principle daily.
A trait PMSH and his Goon Squad should have learned, but probably never will because they are the epitome of hubris!
As to the fraud the Western Standard has committed, I think the public should be told wide and far of this act by Kevin Libin, and let his reputation be dealt with accordingly by fair and honest minded Canadians, his leader, Ezra Levant, has already been clearly identified for what he is….nothingness in a buffoon package!
They’ll probably use this post as fodder to quoat things out of context since you said:
(a) I support the taxing of income trusts, (b) I think a Kyoto-style climate change strategy will destroy the economy, (c) I support the new budget and (d) I hate Liberals.
Taken out of context that paragraph doesn’t look so good.
Herb, is a so-con a neo-con? According to Jackie, all it means is a new-conservative. So, one can only say that they aren’t neo-cons at all.
New conservative campaign signs… because one opinion is enough:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=436670276&size=o
Wow! Even the Toronto Star, the bigest Liberal supporter, is against Dian and Garth on Income Trust issue in today’s editorial:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/205638
And that’s an editorial, not an opinion piece, so it is the position of the paper.
By AD on 04.23.07 8:14 am
Unfortunately the Toronto Star Editorial missed the point. The PM said one thing to get elected, then did another. And before all the righteous jump on this, yes, it has been done before and by Liberals as well, but unfortunately the cornerstone of this )new) government’s election platform was transparency and accountabily. The Pm claimed his government would be different. Well it isn’t!
While I realize it is frustrating to have to deal with a fellow like Lubin, I don’t think you have much to worry about. First of all, the people of Halton know who you are and will vote you in regardless of what others have to say. Secondly, the comments coming from the right only push those in the middle to see them as they truly are. I, for one, came here determined to vote for anyone but the Liberals and Conservatives. What I have encountered on here has pushed my directly into your camp Garth. You will have my vote in the next federal election.
Unfortunately the Toronto Star Editorial missed the point.
By PJW on 04.23.07 10:51 am
Subscribers DID NOT MISS THE POINT … At least one told LAZY EDITORIAL WRITERS
they can cost their paper bigtime!
Accompanied by the Wondrous 18-page Work of Flim-Flam Dim-Jim Flaherty in PDF format with the ‘abiding’ message that I’ve already provided to such NeanderCons …aka CRAP-pers StockYard Day and Sean P. Hogan in the hope they will ultimately secure the services of a good taxidermist. This, of course is intended as a supplement to the sage advice that they look for sublimAdiddle messages.
I believe that the Cons go to Ezra Levant to do their dirty work.
Which is why I’m not surprised that he’s gone after you so hard.
I think that the Toronto Star and the Conservative Party is badly out of touch with many angry seniors. Those seniors who lost a lot of money because of the Income Trust fiasco (dare I say, “boondoggle”) tend to be those who have money.
I’d hazard to guess that they tend to be disproportionately slanted towards the ‘opinion leader’ side of things.
I mean, it doesn’t matter if the Income Trust scandal hit 50000 or 500000 people…all that matters is WHO specifically got hit.
You don’t want to mess with Seniors who are opinion leaders in any democracy. Canada especially. They vote. A lot of them traditionally vote ‘Tory’.
Do you think they’re going to be voting ‘Tory’ next election?
Do you think they’re going to be saying kind words about the Cons, and their lack of sincerity and accountability, over morning .89 cent coffee at the local Co-op?
I think not.
Had the Cons gone after…youth…such as the Canadian Millennium Scholarship Fund, they’d have ticked off a LOT of young people. But they don’t vote. And those who get those Scholarships tend to be from backgrounds which are generally apolitical (in my personal experience, though I must admit, I’m an exception). So, there wouldn’t have been as much damage.
But — when you mess with Seniors pensions…well, nothing raises the ire more.
The lack of accountability on Flaherty’s part is just icing on the cake really.
I don’t believe that the polls are entirely accurate in terms of truly ‘likely voters’. The Green numbers are much too high (and their demographic continues to be unpredictable and spotty at the polls). The Con numbers used to be relatively stable…but I bet a lot of seniors, if they’re not going to for the Cons, they just might stay at home.
That’s my take on the situation this morning.
All I can see here is a bunch of little punks that either should be in school or out looking for a job. Even if you are some retired person then if this is all you have to do is write silly remarks on websites then I think you have to much time on your hands. How about doing some voluntering. James from Chartham and Bill from Muskoka sound like they have nothing better to do than submit stupid remarks here. Get a life and get out and see how the otherside works. What did you do when Garth was a Conservative? Sure have a lot ofopions when you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground. Who will you bash next, the postman or the local cops?
As for this web site and Mr Turner I always thought you were a good MP but with a venomious site like this I wonder. This site is not doing a service to any party let alone your new party!!!!You all know if another party had a site like this you would be all over it with your dirty unsubstantiated remarks. You just have to admit for some unknown reason Mr Harper is well ahead of Mr Dion and the liberals so all your rant here is for naught. Must be your flusterations showing. Now go out and get a job or go back to school.
“No apologies. No explanations. If I’m about to hang, my own words will be the executioner.” –Garth.
How true, Garth. This is true not only for you, but for each and every one of us. At the end of the day, it will not be our opponents, but our own words that will judge us.
My take on this is that in spite of the efforts of some, the interest and level of participation on this blog just seems to keep increasing. Your name is getting out there more and more, even through some attempts at negative publicity. All that they are doing is giving you a lot of free advertizing, which is causing an ever increasing incentive to check into this blog personally. This is all very healthy for people to check the facts for themselves, and to read this blog personally so that they can know what you have actually said.
We appreciate your willingness to let various points of view to be heard, and at the end of the day, people will go by what they come to know of you personally rather than through the lens of some reporter’s bias.
We do not fear the distortions and spins, but the truth itself will win out in the end.
The only small disagreement that I may have with your statement is where you say, “No apologies. No explanations.”
If we do change our mind, I think we should give an explanation, and sometimes, in some areas, an apology may be in order.
At the end of the day, the truth will prevail, and I can only thank you for your vulnerability and willingness to make your viewpoints over the last two years open and public (without deletions).
You have convinced me that I was wrong in suggesting earlier that you should perhaps delete some of your earlier posts. I was wrong, and I apologize for that.
To keep your word out there is the right thing to do, but sometimes, I think, there should be an explanation for changes in the point of view.
For whatever it is worth, I simply put my view out there, but you have every right not to apologize or to explain if that is your choice. At the end of the day, our own words will be our judge (but hopefully not our executioner as well).
All the best in future endeavours!
By Burt on 04.23.07 11:24 am
Thanks for dropping by Burt…you wouldn’t be a Conservative by chance?
LMAO
Just wait till the childish mindless thug bullies quote this “to prove that (a) I support the taxing of income trusts, (b) I think a Kyoto-style climate change strategy will destroy the economy, (c) I support the new budget and (d) I hate Liberals.”. To which I hope Garth replies- ‘Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for continuing to bring intelligent discerning Canadians to my blog!’
I dare say that readers here might want to write letters to the editor of the Post, Globe, Star and anywhere else that Dion/Liberal sticks and stones are being tossed?
Let the war games begin- the truth will neva surrender! LOL
Seems Kevin Libin has also upset David Orchard.Todays National Post.Letters section.
In the end it all comes down to credibility.Yours or his.Same for PMSH vs.the voters.I can’t vote for you,I don’t live there.I can’t vote for Harper,cuz I don’t trust him.I can’t vote at all unless there’s an election.
And anyone with a clue knows why this hasn’t happened.Keep fighting the fight Garth my man.Ya ain’t gonna die because of one Kevin Libin.
“Ezra Levant, has already been clearly identified for what he is….nothingness in a buffoon package!” –Bill Muskoday.
Bill, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that you stated earlier, that the teachings of Theosophy take into account the wisdom and the experiences and the culture of all 6 billion people on this planet.
Surely nobody is a “nothing.” Every one counts! We also will reap what we plant.
By showing some respect for the dignity of every other human being, we will surely reap that respect ourselves, and hopefully live in a saner, kinder world than if we just keep on attacking the very identity or being of other humans as if they are a “nothing”, even though they sometimes do foolish things.
Every human life has value, worth and dignity. Nobody is a “nothing.”
With this understanding, I can only hold you in high esteem as a person, even though I may not always agree with your personal accusations. That is because you are better than this.
I was going to respond to this Burt fellow but I counted to ten and decided to just ignore him.
I apologize, Bill, for mis-spelling your last name. It was a Freudian slip of the keyboards.
Of course, it should have been “Bill Muskoka,” not “Bill Muskoday.” My apologies.
By Burt on 04.23.07 11:24 am
Now go out and get a job or go back to school.
RELAX my Man.
Dear Burt, I’m working on my thesis. Actually, it has grown to book length now.
It’s called “The Selling Out of Canada” but, judging by the rapidity of events, may have to be retitled soon to “How I Learned To Love My Uncle”.
Burt,
Where’s Ernie? You need to be chaperoned when posting because your comments are ridiculous! Oh, and when I need your approval to comment Hell will have frozen over!
Now go read your latest copy of Western Standard and have some more Kool-Aide!
“No apologies. No explanations.”
Come to think of it, I think that you did apologize, Garth, to Ralph Goodale, for suggesting previously that information may have been leaked out from his department with his knowledge that affected investors just before Goodale’s last budget.
The RCMP prove revealed that a high official within the Finance Department of the day did, in fact, leak information, although there is no hard proof that the Minister of Finance at that time, Ralph Goodale, knew about it.
So here is another case where your point of view has changed. Well and good. My only question is, “Why did you apologize in the one case, but not in the other?”
Garth: “(a) I support the taxing of income trusts, (b) I think a Kyoto-style climate change strategy will destroy the economy, (c) I support the new budget and (d) I hate Liberals.”
Oh ho ho! So your true feelings *do* come out!
…:)
I’m just joshing you buddy, though I wouldn’t be too surprised to hear the preceding parroted on one of your future MPTV installments of QP.
As an American only a short couple hundred miles from your border, keep it up! It’s because of you I’ve learned what I have about Canadian politics. It’s been fun, insightful, and some good tonic to forget about our sorry state down here. Thanks Garth!
“Wow! Even the Toronto Star, the bigest Liberal supporter, is against Dian and Garth on Income Trust issue in today’s editorial:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/205638
And that’s an editorial, not an opinion piece, so it is the position of the paper.”
Clearly, the author of this piece of tr*sh does not know there are more than 1 way to achieve fairness. Flim Flam Jim could have lowered the corporate tax instead of imposing a tax on ITs.
If he knew the implication of what he did, he would NOT have done what he did.
Mr. Goodale knew what would happen so he did not proceed with his plan. I think that was the smart thing to have done.
To be defending the tax on IT after all the carnage in the market and the destruction of wealth to the tune of $25+ billions is just silly.
Conservatives are still defending their smearing of Ralph Goodale on the basis of “Ministerial accountability”.
I do however find it curious how Ministerial Accountability only works one way with them.
When it comes to their defense minister uttering false statements in the House, or say, Stockwell Day and the RCMP…the rule of Accountability doesn’t apply.
When it comes to Ralph…well then then, it does apply.
Of course, they don’t see it that way. Why would they?
Garth: As others have suggested, every time you are interviewed, record that interview yourself, and submit your transcription to your blog immediately. Did anybody in Canada realize that the United States Congressional Record is the predecessor of Wikipedia? That is to say, if a Congressman or Senator wishes to submit something to the Record, he need NOT be on the floor, or even in the House or Senate, the Record can have any submission entered AS IF he or she were there. The Record can even register any vote as the Rep or Senator WISHES the Record to show.
Garth, from now on, WATCH YOUR BACK! TRUST NO-ONE! Forget reputations for honesty. People are, by nature, lazy, ignorant, greedy, envious, ambitious, impatient, devious and venal.
Power does not corrupt,any more than money is the root of all evil. It is the LUST FOR POWER which corrupts. Any position of power in human society is actually a position of RESPONSIBILITY. As Jesus said: He who would lead, must first SERVE.
We are ill served by those who claim leadership in our society. They exhibit little, if any, responsibility and accountibility. It is time for a new Magna Carta, only this time, if King Stephen and his band of robber barons will not comply, it should be, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
Word for word, Garth. You have the technology to get the drop on these bastards. You are, after all, a journalist in your own right. The truth will out.
Jeff,
Welcome and thanks for joining in. Aye, I sympathize with you on the sad state of State there. That is why I, and 500,000 other Americans immigrated to Canada. It does look like some common sense may be slowly returning. I hope so for the sake of the people.
Comeon up and join the kegger, eh?
Bill,
Oh, I’ve considered it. But as a 21-year old kid with an almost-B.A. in philosophy, I’m not sure my prospects are the greatest. My girlfriend lives in Bellingham, WA, which is just a hop, skip, and jump from Vancouver, and I’ve loved my few trips up yonder. But yeah, it’s definitely a consideration!
Until then, I’ll just have to keep watching the CBC that I get through basic cable. Weird eh?
Nike Nicholls,
Of course, it should have been “Bill Muskoka,†not “Bill Muskoday.†My apologies.
Actually, I think you have hit on a grand idea…a new day named ‘Muskoday’!
Perhaps it can be a temprorary day, like a travel day for all those souls trying to escape the stress of the GTA?
As to my comment about Ezra, consider I spoke not of the person, but of the content of character, or rather the lack thereof!
Like the old cartoon I have of a hippo in a tutu attempting to be a ballerina, the caption reads ‘No one is completely worthless. They can always serve as a bad example.’
As to being kind and PC, and all that. I think the time has come, again, when we need to call the actions of Libin and Ezra Levant for what they are DISHONEST!
This is not the HoC where real words like ‘LIAR’ are not permitted. This is the real world where we call things as they are, at least most commenters do. Opinions are one thing, everyone has one and is entitled to it. Outright LIES are another, and people of honour and integrity do not condone them as acceptable.
We have, in many areas, way overdone the ‘I’m okay! You’re okay!’ thing. No, there are some people who are fundamentally dishonest, and it always begins with themself. I do not support such persons.
For Libin to have deliberately mis-represented who he was is a violation of all reputable journalistic standards. He belongs in the same category as any other Scam artist…DISDAIN!
Greg W.,
Try this for size – why carbon trading sucks:
http://www.thecornerhouse.org.uk/summary.shtml?x=544225
It’s from Corner House a U.K. environmental advocacy and research group.
Garth Turner = Loose Cannon
The CPC learned it. The LPC is learning it.
Jeff,
Your best bet would be to get hired by a Canadian company and then under NAFTA you could immigrate, or find a Canadian girlfriend and marry her. LOL
Again, welcome, an please share your insights regarding the similarities and dfifferences between the U.S. and Canada. I know of many!
You may appreciate this statement I use fairly often ‘Religion will tell you what to think. Philosophy will teach you how to think!’
Have a great day. I have been to Bellingham, WA numerous times. Great place if you can say BOEING, eh? LOL
google
kevin libin garth turner
Duh – the editorial staff wrote an opinion and that’s simply what it is – an opinion. I’d like to know if any of them are economical experts – I doubt it.
It’s just an opinion, nothing more.
Would you go to editors of any paper for your financial and investment advice? I doubt it.
When I checked out today’s blog and saw a picture of Ezra Levant, I thought I was on the wrong site! After a serious head shake and eye-rubbing, I read the article which explains your conundrum. Sigh..isn’t it pathetic that the Western Standard must pick and choose a word here and there to attempt a smear story. Every time I see a picture of Levant, I feel like I am being conned by a human in Cheshire Cat form – he just gives me the creeps – always has. And having read a number of articles from the Western Standard, I am content knowing that I choose to never read another piece in the publication. We have freedom of choice – and I use it at every opportunity. Garth, sorry you were so intentionally used in an attempt to further someone else’s agenda – and a word here and there can be pasted into a story that suits the purpose of the author. Likely someone incapable of original thought and prone to sensationalize – morality be damned, the story must live. They must be very concerned about your blog Garth – and the numbers of readers that you garner. Perhaps getting jealous of you too? Hang in there – honesty will always win in the end. As I taught my children – there is absolutely nothing in this world that, at the end of the day, will ever be made better by lying. And we truly have to believe that this will come true with the next election.
If you going to ‘let’ yourself ‘get’ baited by these vermin, your only retort shall be this blog, please be careful!
Bill Muskoka, I agree that we may have overdone the “I’m OK, You’re OK” thing.
And I agree, that if somebody has contradicted thsemves, or been dishonest, these errors need to be pointed out.
Some what we would consider “misguided” souls are trying to point out statements that Garth has made in the past, and imply that he is being dishonest as well. We all tend to do it.
However, I think it is just plain wrong to call somebody a “nothing.”
Point out the error, point out the contradiction, point out where a person’s statement may be dishonest, true, but don’t call him a “nothing.”
That surely does not line up with Theosophy.
“If you going to ‘let’ yourself ‘get’ baited by these vermin, your only retort shall be this blog, please be careful!” –By wd
This is exactly what I tried to say to Garth in a previous post. He needs to cover his tracks.
Nike,
Sorry, but I am not going reply further to your ‘nothing’ issue beyond this. Note the difference between ‘nothing’ and ‘nothingness.’ Therefore, that being said, there is ‘nothing’ more need be said!
BTW, Comedy Hour is now on CPAC!
Gee Bill. would you please tell Mike he is right so he can sleep tonight? His post at 11:57 am and his post at 2:20 pm is flogging his point…May I add, we are made in the image and likeness of…..
Georgine,
“I have been amusing myself by reading through what the assorted CPC members have accomplished prior to going into politics. What has come up is gardening (biz now closed), school (attending), past failed (prov. gov. positions (quite a few of those), family biz, a couple of lawyers of course, disc jockey, dog walker, lay preacher x2. Interesting folk running the country these days no?”
Seems to me that these accomplishments describe every day Canadians. Who better to represent us in the House? From how you wrote this, you look down on anyone who didn’t go to university and didn’t become a lawyer, doctor, etc. Nice elitist attitude that Canadians have come to expect from the Liberal Party of Canada.
FYI Garth, anything that’s been published on garth.ca can be accessed from a few websites that record the whole web like time capsules. Even if you deleted all the history anyone with a bit of web-savvy could find it all again.
Hopefully you didn’t know this before because I applaud your integrity in this decision.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070423.wxliberals23/BNStory/National/home
Mr. Dion’s growing pains continue. A lot in this article echos Mr. Turner’s concerns about Mr. Harper.
Nice try. I have no concerns with Stephane Dion’s leadership. — Garth
In 1943 as I recall, a squadron of Air Cadets spent two weeks encamped at RCAF Station Hagersville. One day, while they were on parade on the tarmac, personnel from a newsreel organization joined them and set up cameras. From among the cadets the director selected the smallest and youngest looking boy. He was strapped into a parachute and a flying helmet was placed on his head.
When the cameras began rolling, the cadet clambered aboard a Harvard trainer to join an RCAF pilot. The aircraft then taxied about 100 yards along the tarmac to the runway, made a 180 degree turn, and taxied back. After the cadet debarked to wild acclaim, the cameras were packed away and the film crew left.
Some time later, taking in a movie in town, there, unfolding on the screen, was the event I had witnessed. However, at the point where the aircraft had taxied to the runway, footage was spliced in, showing it taking off, flying about and landing. Everyone in the theatre was led to believe that the cadet actually flew. I assure you, the wheels of the Harvard never left the ground during the filming.
The purpose of the propoganda is irrelevant. It is only important to be aware that deception exists.
When I left the theatre that evening I had adopted as dogma, the adage, to wit: Believe nothing of that which you read, and only half of that which you see.
PER ARDUA AD ASTRA
“Note the difference between ‘nothing’ and ‘nothingness.’ Therefore, that being said, there is ‘nothing’ more need be said!” –Bill Muskoka.
That being said, might this be considered a non-answer as a defense for calling another human being as “nothingness in a buffoon package!”
Let’s elevate the debate by pointing out where we disagree honourably without attacking another human being personally.
Remember, we need all 6 billion people on this planet to come up with Divine Wisdom! Let’s act accordingly.
“Mr. Dion’s growing pains continue. A lot in this article echos Mr. Turner’s concerns about Mr. Harper.” –Westcoaster.
“Nice try. I have no concerns with Stephane Dion’s leadership.” — Garth.
I don’t think there was any hint here about Garth’s concerns for Stephane Dion’s leadership.
The analogy from the Globe and Mail article was simply to point out that apparently others have concerns about Mr. Dion’s leadership similar to Garth’s concerns about Mr. Harper’s leadership.
I found the parallels quite striking. But let’s be clear. I don’t think that anybody at all here is suggesting that Garth has any concerns about Mr. Dion’s leadership.
PJW,
would you please tell Mike he is right so he can sleep tonight?
Nope! LOL He seems quite secure in his cobnvictions…that should be more than sufficient to provide the state of mind for sleep. But thanks anyway.
In the image of….The Big Electron? Whoooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! (thanks to George Carlin!)
Oh, and as only Carlin ’s mind could imagine, he has reduced the Ten Commandments down to one ‘Thy Shalt Keep Thy Religion To Thyself!’, however, philosophy is open for business.
Such as ‘The Ninety-Nine Things You Need To Know’
1. There are more than ninety-nine things you need to know.
2. Nobody knows how many things there are to know.
3. There are more than three.
(Courtesy of George Carlin’s ‘When Will Jesus bring The Pork Chops’)
No trees were killed in the transmission of this message but, several million electrons were inconvenienced.
Can you spell “Sanctimonious”
I can’t!
Nike,
Remember, we need all 6 billion people on this planet to come up with Divine Wisdom! Let’s act accordingly.
So, when are they going to start? email me please!
Nike,
And before I need to go until later tonight! Here is a great bumper sticker we could all display
Hate Is Not A Family Value!
And Value all Families!
Re: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070423.wxliberals23/BNStory/National/home
So much for Dion listening to his MPs, eh Garth?
Interesting. This story is used by one Con to show Dion is a weak leader. Now it’s used by another to show he’s a dictator. Obviously the man’s doing very well. — Garth
PJW Says: Unfortunately the Toronto Star Editorial missed the point. The PM said one thing to get elected, then did another.
I’m not defending the Conservatives or The Star but from a philosophical standpoint:
The Star believes that the IT changes brought in by the Conservatives was the right thing to do. Clearly, they therefore believe that reneging on the promise was a good thing in this case. From their point of view, they therefore aren’t missing the point.
Clearly, circumstances change, and government’s need to adapt and change their policies. To be transparent and accountable, they should come up with a compelling explanation and provide evidence that a change is required.
In this case, the Conservatives have not provided the compelling reasons for the change, and they should definitely be held accountable.
From PJW’s words, I’m interpreting that a promise is a promise is a promise, and there is no changing allowed. I’m not so sure I want a government that is that steadfast.
The real point is that the government takes the correct action regardless of promises. The Star believes that has happened in the IT issue.
We believe that they have taken the wrong course, and we are holding them accountable…
It reminds me of that famous quote
“depends what the meaning of is, is!”
Garth, could you please check your database queue for a post by me today around 12 PM.
It started with Do I dare. Do I dare?
All comments have been posted, with exception of the usual CPC goon squad’s contribution. I did not see that one. Can you reoffer? — Garth
Garth,
All comments have been posted, with exception of the usual CPC goon squad’s contribution.
Thank you! My finger is worn out scrolling past them! LOL
“Hate Is Not A Family Value!
And Value all Families!” –Bill Muskoka.
How true!
“The real point is that the government takes the correct action regardless of promises. The Star believes that has happened in the IT issue.”
Well in that case, I guess any party can promise anything to get elected and then tell the voters it wasn’t in your best interest. What basis then would we use to elect anyone? If there were not whipped votes, we could elect our local representative. So this is how Ed sees the election, vote for your local representative so he can be told to how to vote by the party leader. Or vote for the party platform and try to pick out which ones are the lies.
I think a better idea would be to tell the truth, it wasn’t necessary for Harper to promise he wouldn’t tax ITs, he could have said nothing.
PJW,
I think a better idea would be to tell the truth, it wasn’t necessary for Harper to promise he wouldn’t tax ITs, he could have said nothing.
The obvious escapes those filled with hubris however!
Garth,
As per your email I will restate my question but first. I am not a partisan I use the blogs and maybe ask some uncomfortable questions but it is only to educate myself. As a point everyday I read the blogs of Jason Cherniak, Andrew Coyne,Stephen Taylor, Steve Janke, Dipper Chick and yours. Hence I asked my question to all of them.
Question – How and what are the liberals proposing to prevent me going broke under Koyoto? I can’t get mass transit, drive 40 km to work and live 7 km from any shopping. I’m currently hanging on by a thread and will vote against anything, no matter how right it is, if it means I’ll be going bankrupt.
Hope you understand now where the question is coming from and that I’m only looking for honesty not partisan BS.
I do not understand the premise of your question. If it is based on John Baird’s assertion last week that implementing Kyoto would raise gas to $1.60 a litre, then you can relax. That, according to experts I have faith in, is bunkum. Of greater concern is that we will do nothing about climate change, which will lead to weather change, and impact on us in a much harsher, long-term, economic way. The bottom line is we cannot pretend nothing is happening, just as we obviously cannot afford to destroy the economy in the name of tree-hugging. Surely reasonable people can come up with a plan that does not penalize you, or any other hard-working Canadians. (I believe Dion has that in his Carbon Budget – please read it.) This is exactly what’s wrong with Ottawa – extreme positions and the politics of fear. Do not be victimized by it. — Garth
Obviously the man’s doing very well. — Garth
Wow! Talk about having blinders on. Your fooling yourself.
So, what’s your take on Dion not consulting Maritime MPs. Is he weak? Is he a dictator? Is that the way things are done? What’s your spin on this (and I’m sure it will be spin)?
You lost this one. — Garth
Whoa! Elizabeth May is not representing the left (or the right for that matter)as mentioned in the above piece. The Green Party is a party for everyone. Personally I would never have gotten involved in politics for t
he first time in my life last year if I thought the Green Party was left wing. Ugh! How appalling! No. Said the raven: “Nevermore!”
Long live the Green Party! I hope my point is clear enough.
You lost this one. — Garth
I can’t loose an argument until you tell me how you stand.
Wha’ts you take on this? Do you have an opinion? Do you refuse to take a stand? Did Dion tell you not to say anything?
Stop baiting. You’re a bore. — Garth
Stop baiting. You’re a bore. — Garth
I’m not baiting. I’m asking a question. What’s your stand on this?
Leaders lead. Good leaders lead after consulting. Stehen Harper would never even have made that phone call. — Garth
Mr. Dion’s growing pains continue. A lot in this article echos Mr. Turner’s concerns about Mr. Harper.
Nice try. I have no concerns with Stephane Dion’s leadership. — Garth
Please point out where in my comment above, I insinuate that you have concerns with Mr. Deon’s leadership.
Had coffee on Saturday morning with a group of buddies — all mid-50’s – half & half career blue & white collar workers. I’m the only one not yet retired – all of us badly burned by the big IT lie. All of us relish making our X’s next to the local Lib candidate in retaliation. It’s the only revenge we’ll ever have for being hurt so badly this late in life. But none of us feel the Libs can win, thanks to Mr. Dion’s weak performance to date.
I don’t know how the Lib caucus is going to get him up to speed, but bonehead moves like the red/green deal, and his apparent lack of interest in anything except the environment, are killing your chances of winning the next contest.
Garth, When did John Baird say that gas would be at $1.60 p/l? Would it be tomorrow if we try to meet Kyoto or 5 years from now? Currently gas is $1.20 p/l and I have no doubt from the climb gas has taken in the last 5 years that gas will be more then $1.60p/l in 5 years time. Regards
Now go out and get a job or go back to school.
By Burt on 04.23.07 11:24 am
Burt, you would be well advised to practice what you preach. We retires have done our time. Now its your turn. You go back to school & learn a few lessons on what life is all about. When you have accomplished that, get a job!
Stop baiting. You’re a bore. — Garth
That’s how I feel, it’s like they are boring holes, looking for any advantage, and rarely do they answer questions, at least that has been my experience with two of them. They are only here to put people on the spot.
I don’t know what the purpose is but it works very much to your advantage!
So, what’s your take on Dion not consulting Maritime MPs. Is he weak? Is he a dictator? – Eric Foreman
What’s the difference between a dictator and a weak leader?
Absolutely nothing. A weak leader cannot govern by reason and logic, but must resort to the tactics of coersion and dictatorship.
That makes PMSH a weak leader!
As for Mr. O’Connor and the Afghan issue,
1. The Afghan police force are known for the way they reat their prisoners,
2. Hillier, under O’Connors direction, signs an agreement that turns Afghan prisoners over with no right for Canadians to check on them. The other coalition forces have similar agreement but do have the right to follow up inspections, I wonder why (for all of 1 millisecond!)
3. To fix the problem O’Connor has Hillier sign another agreement with the Afghan Human Rights folks, all 5 of them, to monitor prosioners handed over by Canadians, approx 1,000 I understand from media reports.
4. Being complicit in torture of prisoners opens Canadian Forces upto war crimes charges.
5. While the Afghan Human Right folks are trying to do the right thing, does O’Connor really think they will be able to ensure the rights of the prisoners?
If he does, then O’Connor and Hillier must resign!
Dumbfounded,
I can relate to your concerns. I live in the Muskoka and distance and travel costs are quite real for anyone outside the GTA where they have mass transit.
I, were I the one writing the legislation, would insist that those residing in the GTA MUST use mass transit for their daily commute to work. even better, would be getting rid of the out-of-date concept that people must conglomerate in office buildings to perform clerical type work.
Today we have the internet, email, pdf files, VPN (Virtual Personal Networks), etc. There is no real reason people must drone into work everyday to work on a computer they could readily do the same work on at home.
We also need to FINE those who do such assinine things as run their air conditioners with their store doors OPEN in warm or hot weather. What are they NUTS?
Turn off the damn office lights when they are not occupied. How much common sense does that take? We have heard about ‘Turning Off The Lights’ for decades, are these people brain damaged?
We also need to mandate, not ask, not coddle major emitters of GHG to capture their emissions and deal with them. If they need funding, as loans, not giovernment grants, then make the funding available, but with good sound oversight. No corporate welfare. I run a company., I have to budget my company’s resources and it is my responsibility to do so because I made the CHOICE to have the company amnd its associated costs.
We also need to address the auto manufacturers who have been hand in hand with the oil companies to avoide compliance with emissions standards.
We can build an International Space Sation, but we can’t make personal/public transportation available and affordable? HOGWASH!
Those naysayers today were the same ones that screqamed ‘It can’t be done!’ back in the 1950’s and forward. WE DID IT! We cleaned up our air and started making people running companies accountable for their pollution. Heck we even have the laws in place in canada, and the U.S. SUpreme COurt just habded the EPA the final authority to enforce their own Clean Air statutes.
We have everything we need to get the task accomplished except the political will and leadership. Therein, lies the ONE AND ONLY REAL PROBLEM!
And I keep asking ‘What is the disease?”
(Sheesh…That post had more typos than Baird’s Environmental Conference! LOL)
Sorry about that folks!
“What is the disease?â€
Egoism, self-cendtredness, partisanship and pride.
OK Garth,
I read Dions “Carbon Budget” and all I see in there tells me I’m toast.
Thank You Bill-Muskoka I agree with almost all you said and being non-partisan we can agree to disagree on those items.
But all the costs that are going to go up with a gas increase of any magnitude are going to bankrupt most of those who can’t vote themselves a raise or are running a business that won’t stand the necessary price increases. Maybe it’s time to take a step back and look at how we can move ahead without bankrupting the average canadian
Bill-Muskoka,
I accept that GW is real but would and could debate what is causing it.
Don’t get me wrong I think we all need to do our part to reduce pollution and I am but don’t destroy me in the process
Oh gooooosh,,, sory bout all those spellin mistakes.
From Willian Billiam
Goin back to america now. See ya all
later.
Dumbfounded,
Further thoughts on the GTA versus the rural areas, and this would be Provincial level, but hard to implement nationally it think, unless a population ceiling was the basis for the mandate,i.e, Montreal, Calgary, Vanacouver, Edmonton, Toronto, our largest urban areas.
It would seem to me that the following concept would be of a major assistance in reducing consumption and emissions.
1. Separate all vehicles into three groups. a. personal, b. commercial, c. public.
2. Set the fuel prices according to need of use. as a preliminary set of numbers.
a. Personal-may be used for private non-work related transport Monday through Friday, but at a per litre rate of $5-6, with the difference between the GTA and rural pricing going totally towards mass transit infrastructure.
b. Commercial-those who are actually delivering volumes of goods as agents of transport including taxis, light haulage, and heavy haulage trucks. Set the per litre rate to the same as the rural rate.
c. Public-Police, fire, and government owned vehicles to standard -2 to 5%.
Now, what would be the result?
A. Private-they would switch to mass transit or pay the much higher fuel rate.
B. Would not affect for profit commerce.
C. Would save government and public services money to be applied towards maitntenance and new vehicle acquisition.
The rural residents, and I am not meaning ‘cottagers’, in fact ‘cottagers’ would have to pay the GTA rate Monday through Friday, and the local rate Saturday and Sunday with a limit on how many litres they can purchase., would pay the realistic cost with a moderate profit for the producers and distributors. Hopefully no more than $1.00 per litre, and preferably less. Simple RFID’s inside the license plate tags would set the price and volume available.
These are just a point of beginning. How does the idea sound?
Additionally, I like the idea of GST/HST/PST rebates for fuel efficient vehicle purchases.
Then perhaps the wallet could be a gauge of other sizes, eh…Like their egos?
You wanna play? The you’re gonna PAY right at the front end when you get your plates!
Garth,
Whoever posted By BILL-MUSKOKA on 04.23.07 6:33 pm was impersonating me. Please ban them and see who they are. Not my comment!
Thank you!
PJW -
“… vote for your local representative so he can be told to how to vote by the party leader. Or vote for the party platform and try to pick out which ones are the lies.” (at 4:52 pm)
The Canadian electoral problem in a nutshell! And there is no way of resolving it short of divine intervention, because it is working very well – for politicians. Dissemble a little as a constituency candidate, or lie a lot as a party seeking government, and you have a good chance. Voters merely have the choice of picking how badly and by whom they wish to be deceived.
Which takes me back to my non-partisan voting alternative: forget platforms, vote to sustain or change the government. Judge them by the fruit of their labours: if you like what they are doing, give them another term; if you don’t, throw the rascals out and give the next set a chance, then judge them in turn. Yes, you are voting on the record, but it’s the record you perceive, not the one government and opposition will paint for you.
It’s behaviour modification on a grand scale, with effective positive and negative reinforcement. As opposed to trying to bank on lies, seize politicians by their self-interest. They all want political power and, and once attained, they want to keep it.
So forget the speeches and the advertising: judge your MP and government the way you would any piece of equipment, by how well it works for you, not what the salesmen say.
Écrasez l’infâmie!
Had coffee on Saturday morning with a group of buddies — all mid-50’s – half & half career blue & white collar workers. I’m the only one not yet retired – all of us badly burned by the big IT lie. All of us relish making our X’s next to the local Lib candidate in retaliation. It’s the only revenge we’ll ever have for being hurt so badly this late in life. But none of us feel the Libs can win, thanks to Mr. Dion’s weak performance to date.
I don’t know how the Lib caucus is going to get him up to speed, but bonehead moves like the red/green deal, and his apparent lack of interest in anything except the environment, are killing your chances of winning the next contest.
Don’t believe all you hear. Mr. Dion is very capable of being the PM & obviously 32 % or more feel the same. Quit falling for the lies & games the Cons play.
I accept that GW is real but would and could debate what is causing it.
Don’t get me wrong I think we all need to do our part to reduce pollution and I am but don’t destroy me in the process
By dumbfounded on 04.23.07 6:31 pm
If someone like Baird told you, “be prepared, the sky is falling down” would you believe him? What he is doing is exactly that. Playing scare tactics with Canadians. I say ignore him for what he is. A clueless loser & bully.
Interesting! We just got a Rebate Coupon flyer from our local electricity supplier.
Companies like Canadian Tire, Rona, WalMart, CostCo are all honouring the coupons for CFL’s, Energy Star compliant appliances, ect., but NOT Home Depot.
I can’t loose an argument until you tell me how you stand.
Wha’ts you take on this? Do you have an opinion? Do you refuse to take a stand? Did Dion tell you not to say anything?
Stop baiting. You’re a bore. — Garth
By ERIC FOREMAN on 04.23.07 5:35 pm
No but you can wear loose shoes .
It’s lose ‘ya cretin .
Nike,
Egoism, self-cendtredness, partisanship and pride.
Pretty close. I like Georgine’s statement of ‘hubris’, which includes all the above. Narcissism is at the top of my list as well, which is a product of hubris!
But there is more to the ‘disease’ than those simple labels! It is systemic as a clue!
So you’re the first politician who’s been mis-represented in the mass medias???
Absolutely. Where’s my cross? — Garth
James: did you get to see the CBC interview with the head of the Afghan Human Rights commission? He was terrified to leave his apartment, had only 4 “guys” to supervise the entire country. He said he could not guarantee any prisoners safety. He didn’t feel safe leaving his own home!!! And Mr. O’Connor looked this fellow “right in the eye” and concluded that this guy was competent and able to ensure the safety of all detainees handed over by the Canadian forces> O’Connor is a jerk. He should have watched this interview before meeting the guy.
Dumbfounded: If you are “hanging on by a thread” now, then the implementation of Kyoto targets is the least of your worries. You should be asking Harper why he didn’t lower your tax rate, why he is subsidizing oil and gas profiteers, why he is fascilitating the sell-off of IT companies.
Even with zero Kyoto implementation you are bankrupt. All of your expenses will continue to increase-and sounds like your income will not.
Garth,
Absolutely. Where’s my cross? — Garth
Personally, I would keep it right next to the Garlic necklace with the way the Goon Squad has been the past few days! LOL Here is a nice wooden stake…just in case!
Herb,
Judge them by the fruit of their labours:
Can we all say together…Performance Review? Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek I can hear the scream in Ottawa way over her ein the Muskoka! LOL
BTW, how many janitors do they need in Parliament?
Well in that case, I guess any party can promise anything to get elected
…and this is how the Liberal party succeeded from 1993 on.
PJW, you have me totally wrong. I have been a strong supporter of Garth since well before the election, and I voted for him to be the Conservative candidate in the riding. I have defended him from the left when they were attacking him as a Conservative and I have been defending him from the right now that he is nominally (?) a liberal.
As a matter of fact, I voted for him in spite of my feelings about the Harper led Conservatives.
My comment was directed to you because you seemed to say that “The Point” was to keep promises. I would think that that is secondary to providing good government should the situation develop that sees following through on a promise as being the worst option. That is apparently what the Star believes.
As I said before, it is up to the government to convince the voters that the course they follow is correct. And it is up to the voters to hold them accountable at the following election.
Sadly, the latter wasn’t done with successive Liberal governments since 1993.
Does anybody know, is there a difference between the “goon squad” around here, and the “truth squad”?
If so, who are the “goons” and who has the “truth”?
In this day and age of postmodernity, can anybody here claim that they have THE truth? Don’t we just have a part of the truth, and that each of the 6 billion other people on this planet also have another part?
Is truth relative or absolute? Unless you believe in absolute truth deposited in youir ego, nobody here should really be talking about “the truth,” but rather about “my truth,” which may be different but complementary to somebody else’s truth.
Is this not the way to peace, goodwill and tolerance?
“Sadly, the latter wasn’t done with successive Liberal governments since 1993.” –Ed Brooks.
Sad, but true!
Hmmmmmmmmm!
I guess any party can promise anything to get elected
Well, of course. If any party actually accomplisheed what they promised, as in really and truly solving a problem, then what would they have to promise the next election?
Ed Brooks,
Sadly, the latter wasn’t done with successive Liberal governments since 1993.
Yeahbutt, JC sure got a lot of nice golf balls, eh? I bet he is as popular in the Liberal Caucus as herpes today?
Ed Brooks,
the Libs had free reign after 1993 because any possible permutation of Mulroney Conservatives was anathema to voters. I don’t think that any government has ever been held in such contempt as Mulroney into his second term. Canadians had to get good and tired of Chretien before anything with a conservative label became a credible alternative, and that took 11 years of Chretien, one-and-a-half of Martin, and all of Adscam.
That’s my worms-eye view as a voter. Perhaps Garth would tell us what happened to the CPC under and after Mulroney. Kim Campbell doesn’t count, because not even Jesus Christ could have saved the CPC in 1993.
Muskoka,
to answer your question of how many janitors are required in Parliament, my guesstimate would be 600 for a one-time job: to take out the garbage at two janitors per useless MP.
Perhaps more than eight MPs could be retained after your performance review, but I’m bitter and twisted tonight.
Sorry, Garth, that should have been “PCs”, not “CPC” under and after Mulroney.
We won’t know what happened to the CPC until after the next election. Meanwhile,
Écrasez l’infâmie!
Hey Herb,
I like your suggested Performance Review Method, as BILL-MUSKOKA calls it, of selecting who to vote for.
In the last election I went for the Customer Service Method.
I called each mainstream campaign office and asked whoever answered the phone to leave a message for the candidate to call me back. The first candidate who called me back got my vote.
Not a perfect method, I know, but the Customer Service Method gave me an opportunity to assess each candidate’s organization, their internal communications, and their concern for individual constituents.
It took about 20 hours for the person who got my vote to call me back. One of the candidates still hasn’t returned my call.
As far as I’m concerned they can promise the world but if they don’t at the very least do a reasonable job of acknowledging a constituent concern then that is not the type of “representation” that I want.
Regards,
MB
Canadians had to get good and tired of Chretien before anything with a conservative label became a credible alternative, and that took 11 years of Chretien, one-and-a-half of Martin, and all of Adscam.
Perhaps that is what is wrong with Canadian politics: we carry a grudge for too long. Maybe, after kicking the last set of bums out, we should just get over it.
Hey Jackie, I realize that many of us are not above the grade-school name-calling 100% of the time but your posts are most often a case study in same. How about just once taking a pill, relaxing, and maybe just focusing on the issues for a change? Your juvenile and sanctimonious diatribes contribute nothing to an otherwise intelligent blog.
Thank you. I knew you’d understand.
“PJW, you have me totally wrong.”
You are right Ed, my apology!
I completely misunderstood what you said. My response stands, however, I would delete any references to you. Sorry!
Ed,
I got over my revulsion for the Libs as soon as I realized that the new emperor had no clothes and that his government was no different. However, the aim of punishing the LPC had been accomplished, and now I’m waiting for the chance to send the CPC into the wilderness to ponder how Canadians want to be governed.
It’s not that political parties are incapable of learning, it’s just that they really haven’t had to up to now. The days of manipulating voters with promises should be replaced by governments having to prove themselves in action, with voters no longer content to be dis-, mis- or uninformed.
Herb,
to answer your question of how many janitors are required in Parliament, my guesstimate would be 600 for a one-time job: to take out the garbage at two janitors per useless MP.
Well, I can see the 600 easily whereas for every janitor pushing the broom one direction there would need to be be another in opposition pushing back. Therefore, the primary advantage is that , although the CRUD remains where it is with minor movement to make it appear work is being done, they at least are gainfully employed, not on the street begging , doing windshields, or otherwise being a public nuisance, eh?
Perhaps we could commission a study using the SWAG (Scientific Wild Arsed Guess) method and employ a few more people with PhD’s and MSc’s who are currently driving taxis?
My recommendation would be to join them together with a crupper to insure stability and continued stagnation.