Last Thursday evening, as I have already mentioned, distraught income trust investors packed a Town Hall meeting in my riding, looking for any glimmer of hope that the Harper government would reverse its position. It was emotional, intense and quite disturbing. The local media was there. Here is a report, just published.
Upset citizens pack Turner meeting
People come from as far as London, Ont. after government breaks campaign promise and taxes income trusts; they lost thousands of dollars
By Melanie Hennessey
May 01, 2007
Disappointment and anger with the federal Conservatives filled the room at a town hall meeting Halton MP Garth Turner held Thursday evening on the party’s decision to go against its campaign promise and tax income trusts.
Dozens of residents both from the area and from as far away as London, Ont. — many of them seniors who’ve lost a big chunk of their retirement savings due to the income trust situation — packed into the Boyne Community Centre in Milton to let the Liberal politician know just how they feel about the 31.5 per cent tax.
Turner said once the word spread last year on the new tax, the value of income trusts plunged and erased about $25 billion in Canadians’ personal savings.
One of those residents affected was Miltonian Walter Gardecky, who has income trusts within his RRSPs. “I’m relying on my RRSPs to pay my bills. Meanwhile, somebody’s stealing them,” he said. “I lost $11,000 overnight and I have no way to recover it. That’s my only pension income.”
Another man at the meeting said the whole situation is simply “beyond belief.”
“We invested in a legitimate way and our own government comes and pulls the rug out from under us,” he said. “What kind of country is this?”
For Burlington resident Linda Franz, the Conservatives’ decision to tax income trusts after promising during the 2005-06 election that it wouldn’t has “devalued democracy.” “Twenty-five billion dollars is not as important as losing our faith in the system,” she said. “They devalued our political system. We’ve lost our faith in government.”
Turner concurred that it’s a horrible thing when a government misleads Canadians.
“I feel that tainted me as well,” he said.
He also explained to residents why he voted in favour of the income trust tax legislation, since he’s actually opposed to the concept. He said the item also included new rules to allow senior couples to split their pension income for tax purposes — something he’s long been pushing for.
“I worked so hard on that issue,” he noted, emphasizing again that he’s strongly opposed to income trust tax.
Canadian Association of Income Trust Investors (CAITI) president and CEO Brent Fullard was also at the session to let local residents know about what the group has been doing to push for change on the income trust tax front, including billboard and advertising campaigns. “I can assure you we’re being noticed in Ottawa,” he said.
Turner and the residents went on to compile a list of what the average person can do to advocate for reform, like join CAITI, write letters to the editor, e-mail politicians and provide Turner with comments. “The more ammunition you give me, the more I have to use,” Turner said. “We have to be proactive. The best way is to speak up.”
He also told those in attendance about a recently tabled Liberal motion to reduce the income trust tax to 10 per cent and make it refundable to Canadian citizens, meaning only foreign investors will be out of pocket at the end of the day. He encouraged everyone to stay tuned for the debate on the motion that’s expected to take place May 16.
Melanie Hennessey can be reached at mhennessey@miltoncanadianchampion.com.
23 comments ↓
Harper is no leader. He is no leader!
I am tending to think Income Trusts are like McGuinty’s health tax, not as much publicity anymore but no one will ever forget!
Millions of Canadians were directly impacted by Harpers Income trust betrayal.
Not only will this despicable act by Harper not be forgotten, the people that Harper SCREWED will be very very motivated to vote.
As for the media attention, there’s a vote on May 16 in the house. That will rekindle attention if nothing else does in the meantime.
I have a message for Mr. Harper. I know his minions from the CPC death star bunker read this blog. Pass this on to your leader children.
Mr. Harper – your betrayal of Canadians and of Canada is not a matter that will eventually fade into being old news.
It has been more than half a year since you betrayed us. Surely you realize that the issue is as vital today as it was half a year ago. Perhaps even more so.
We’re not going away Mr. Harper. In fact, this issue is gathering momentum. You need to realize that and deal with this matter by dropping this tax NOW.
If you continue on this path, the fact that you mislead Canadians, screwed millions of seniors, and staged the sell off of Canadian business will remain your sad and pathetic legacy.
And do not doubt for one second that you will be booted out of office in short order. We’re mad as hell and you can bet that when an election comes, every last one of us will be out there making damned sure you loose. Big Time.
Linda Franz says “They devalued our political system. We’ve lost our faith in government.â€
Linda, I agree. And it’s not only the Tories. I believe that Flaherty told falsehoods to FINA but the Committee has not investigated him for contempt of Parliament. The income trust legislation, if enabled, will have the effect of eliminating income trusts from the TSX, reducing income and retirement savings of Canadians and reducing tax revenues, but 180 members of Parliament accepted the lie of tax leakage and voted to pass the legislation. The Canadian press continues print stories that report tax leakage as if it were fact, even though there is substantial evidence to the contrary. Now we have foreign private equity vultures circling BCE and the trusts but the Minister of Finance does not even notice. Why is he against Canadians? So yes, I too have lost faith in the Prime Minister and Finance Minister, the Tories, the Canadian democratic process and the Canadian press.
Know I’m not responding to the comment at hand, but want to address a comment posted by Lawrence Gavin (sp?) in a previous post. I’m slow in reading and/or hesitating to reply most of the time.
Below, I believe is from Lawrence Gavin – my apologies if I misspelled his name.
Congratulations PJ, you found out that the new guys are politicians just like
the last guys were.
Lawrence Gavin said:
“I support the Cons because they are the least worst, not because they are “the
best.†And anyone who tells you that Question Period is worse than it used to
be, wasn’t watching what it used to be. I was. Ever since the Liberals came out
with the “rat pack†you’ve had the same low level of behaviour from all sides.
Politicians are nasty, back-stabbing, self-interested people who think you and
I are stupid rubes; that’s just the way it is. Anyone who thinks any of them
have our best interests at heart is living in a child’s dream.
Too cynical? I don’t think so… I’ll support a party that is small in ambition
over one that is large in ambition because I view government as a necessary
evil, not as the solution to any social ill. He governs best who governs least,
that’s my motto and my mantra.”
So why do you not run, in order to see how a diety might improve things? —
Garth
By Lawrence Garvin on 05.02.07 6:22 pm
Pardon me Larry, but I’ve been following politics as long as you and, as far
I’m concerned, I’ve never seen a govt. that is as nasty as this one, does not
respond to one question, can only attack/smear in response to a question and,
is so totally transparent in its hyprocracy.
You support a party that is small in ambition – How old did you say you were?
The cons are ‘huge in ambition’ but short on memory and morality. I guess you
still think that the terrorists from Iraq caused 9/11, held WMD’s and the US
attacked them to bring demoracy to them!!!
KPN
I am tending to think Income Trusts are like McGuinty’s health tax, – PJW
Both messes caused by Flaherty as Minister of Finance! (Flip-Flop vs. A balanced deficit budget!)
The question is, assuming the Liberals win the next Fed and McGuinty stays in and fixes the Ontario budget, will the flip-flop be reversed and the health tax reduced/eliminated?
J. Townley – Excellent comment!
Just wait until the seniors in retirement homes get the facts about Harper from their relatives and children! (I’ve already given my folks the goods and they are flaming mad now)
Let’s also make sure that we fill the Liberal fundraising coffers BEFORE an election is called people. It costs a small fortune to run a campaign from what I am told and Harper and his minions are already busily calling folks on the phone for money. (they are getting it too- yikes!)
Get involved with your local riding association, buy a $10 membership, donate via your local candidate (in this case Garth- click the support Garth button on the right of this screen), offer to volunteer for a campaign and make yourself known before the writ drops.
Let’s just show Harper how mad we really are. We want him out and though perhaps we can’t personally control when an election is called – we can get mightily ready for one!
I hate to say it, but in some ways I agree with Lawrence (although I don’t think the Conservative are the least worst).
If you look back over the past 10+ years, the Liberals squandered and wasted hundreds of millions of dollars (if not billions).
The NDP are just too left for my tastes. They really will never see power, and if they did, God help us.
The Green (even though I voted Green last election) are a non-entity in politics. It was a safe “protest vote” for me.
The Conservatives are, in my opinion, the worst of the bunch – liars, spinners, covering up torutre and murder, lying about income trusts, and incompetent too boot. (And there was nothing in their last platform that I agreed with as “good policy” ideas). Harper just plain makes me sick.
I’m am very discouraged right now about my political choices, and what kind of future I will leave my kids. But what choices do we have? Next election will again be a vote for “least worst”.
It would be nice to have a “best” choice in the election for a change…
Hello Mr. Turner, I think what this goes to show is that it’s easy for Opposition Parties to claim that they’ll do the right thing if and when they get into government.
However, as you can see, Cons. Party Leader SH promised one thing and did another. Why is this so? In my opionion, PMSH attributed it to the incompetence of Prime Minister Paul Martin, rather than the consequence of trying to ‘run the systems of power’ without truly consulting the grassroots.
What do I mean by this? Well, instead of ‘Giving credit, where credit’s due’, our PM chooses to attack people based on party affliation, instead of assessing the merits of a position (rather disappointing, because when Stephen Harper was Leader of the Reform Party, he allowed for more free votes on legislation, as well as starting each statement by stating the positives of each position of the then-prime-minister Jean Chretien, and then moving unto the areas of concern).
Sadly, PMSH has turned back on his own advice and instead, he starts every response in QP (and in the HofC in general) by stating the negatives of each position, thereby stirring up other MPs to go further off-track, instead of starting with the good, then stating the concerns and then dealing with them.
On the issue of Afghan detainees, the words of our current PM seems to mirror the logic of the current US Pres. George W. Bush and his former Defense Minister, Donald Rumsfield: that to discuss issues in the HofC would be to broadcast information to the enemy.
Do you want to know the problem with applying that logic to every issue? Such statements only show ‘the enemy’ that our current PM isn’t committed to an open and transparent democracy, and therefore, how can the Government of Canada be trusted to do what it says it’ll do, if it can’t even keep its promises at home?
In closing, PMSH seems to use the same catch-phrase as George Bush with our current mission: ’stay the course’. Also, the Prime Minister makes the same mistake as George W. Bush in assuming that ‘all the evil lies in the enemy, and all the good in ourselves’.
In the US, this logic brought about the ‘doom’ of the Republician Party in the 2006 mid-term elections was mainly because viewing things in this light leads to the very type of arrogance that Bush claimed he condemned of ‘the enemy’.
Instead, I think all current and future politicians should take the time to read the book “God’s Politics: How the Left doesn’t get it, and the Right gets it wrong” by Jim Wallis.
Although written for an American audience, he points that the alternative to such an attitude is instead of asking “Is God on my side?” (or “is the common good on my side?), you ought to ask “Am I on God’s side?” (or ” Am I on the side of the common good?”)
I know that was long, but it shows that government that is run more and more from the top-down is a government based on coercion, fear and speculation, instead of based on integrity, honesty and such.
By Lil’ Lib on 05.02.07 9:19 pm
Excellent message to get out, Lil’ Lib. I am not in Garth’s riding, but I have donated $100 to my local Liberal riding assoc. Folks, it costs little to do this. If you donate $100, you will get back a $75 tax refund–net cost only $25. It’s a great investment in Canada right now.
Tim,
Yes, under the old liberals I too am sure a tremendous amount of waste went on. And there was Adscam and promises made and broken. But nothing like what we have all been submitted to this past year and a half. But under the old liberals Canada did pretty well too. Martin was by no means my favorite guy but he was a pretty good finance minister. They left Harper and Co a nice little nest egg to start out with too.
And now almost everyone is angry. Very Angry. About a lot of different things. As you say: liars, spinners, covering up torture and murder, lying about income trusts, and incompetent to boot. (And there was nothing in their last platform that I agreed with as “good policy†ideas). Harper just plain makes me sick.
Until we have real electoral reform that represents how people truly vote across this country we are stuck with the system we have. And while there are still some of those old liberals in the ranks that does not worry me at this point.
This is no longer the old liberal party, this is Stephane Dion’s Liberal Party and the year is 2007 and we have nowhere to go but towards the future.
With people like Garth and Ted (NS, forget his last name, nice, funny, smart guy) and Navdeep, and many, smart, dedicated, good people, what more can you ask for? With these people we are miles ahead of those embarrassing excuses across the aisle.
Grapevine has it that a few of them would love to cross the aisle. Not clear why they don’t.
Anyway. NDP has lost their way with Jack. Green is always an option. They grow every time. But this time I think we’ll see great changes with Dion.
No idea how much of the damage can be reversed. I’m guessing something could be done to ease the pain the IT folks suffered but the longer it goes on the less can be done. Garth, you would know. How much time to salvage something. Or best time line?
Like Baird’s Clean Air (not) Act, none of this stuff works. And I do wish they would stop using Bush’s names for things.
2 cents.
Geo
KPN sez; I guess you still think that the terrorists from Iraq caused 9/11, held WMD’s and the US attacked them to bring demoracy to them!!!
I guess you’re not a very good guesser. Until you folks learn to differentiate between real people and the manufactured stereotypes that you all loath (as directed), you’re going to continue to stumble over stupid assumptions. I’m not a “Republican North” or a “Bush-lite follower” or an American Wanna-be. I’m a Canadian who rejects the mythology of “liberal” Canada. If you’re so fired-up angry about dishonest politics, you might try honest political debate as your personal contribution to the national inventory of honesty.
Just a thought… or you can take the easy way out, call me a filthy Neo-Con Liar and join the ranks of the Pig Ignorant & Proud of It club. A few of the founding members are resident here already.
I hate to say it, but in some ways I agree with Lawrence (although I don’t think the Conservative are the least worst).
That’s okay. I’m not selling anything. I’ve been disappointed with the Conservatives myself. I expected better from them and I still hope to see better. Having said that, I don’t see a credible alternative and I’d still vote Conservative if the vote was held tomorrow. Not because I respect and admire them but because I think they are better than the alternatives.
Someone brings up McGuinty in a previous comment. God time to ask Gath, will you be voting for your provincial cousins, Dalton McGunity in the next election?
I have yet to know who the candidates in Halton will be. Tell ya then. — Garth
I hate to say it, but in some ways I agree with Lawrence (although I don’t think the Conservative are the least worst).
There is a cure for that . It’s called grow a brain.
I have yet to know who the candidates in Halton will be. Tell ya then. — Garth
Some Disney character .
I have yet to know who the candidates in Halton will be. Tell ya then. — Garth
By John Frain on 05.02.07 11:17 pm
Why is it necessary for anyone to know?
How one votes personally is one’s own business, I don’t think John or anyone has the right to ask that question.
Senator M. Lebreton, Secretary of State for Seniors, is totally in the dark regarding IT tax proposal and it’s impact on seniors. You can give her the facts at lebrem@sen.parl.gc.ca.
Hello,
Further your correspondence and interest in Income Trusts I thought you may appreciate reading an interaction between myself and the Honorable Senator LeBreton who is the Conservative Leader of the Government in the Senate and Secretary of State for Seniors. Please find below an excerpt from the Senate Debates from May 1, 2007:
Senator Mitchell: I am not actually referring to that. I am referring to the $8 billion the minister said that he was planning to spend when he made the announcement the next day. He said explicitly, “That will hurt the economy.” When this neo-conservative government put $8 billion into the environment, why was there nothing but economic doom and gloom, but it can squeeze $30 billion out of the value of income trusts overnight with a single policy initiative and there is no suggestion that might hurt the economy let alone many Canadians? How does the honourable senator square those two things?
Senator Mercer: They do not care about seniors.
Senator LeBreton: I am trying to figure out whether the question relates to the environment or income trusts. It is clear that there has been much debate on the matter of income trusts. I read a report yesterday that indicated that many of these trusts are back at or near the value they were when the government made its decision on October 31.
I heard a senator refer to seniors. In my capacity as Secretary of State for Seniors, the matter of income trusts has not been drawing a lot of attention, which is a surprise to me. There are seniors in the position of having investments, and there are many seniors who are not. Many seniors have told me that their investment dealers diversified their portfolio. Any small losses they took on the income trust side were more than made up on the other side and, in fact, they are ahead of the game.
Senator Mitchell: That response proves that if the Leader of the Government listens at all she listens selectively.
Perhaps she has been out of the country for the last six months.
Marie
Summarizing the above comment:
Senator M. Lebreton, Secretary of State for Seniors, is totally in the dark regarding IT tax proposal and it’s impact on seniors. You can give her the facts at lebrem@sen.parl.gc.ca.
“I read a report yesterday that indicated that many of these trusts are back at or near the value they were when the government made its decision on October 31.”
“In my capacity as Secretary of State for Seniors, the matter of income trusts has not been drawing a lot of attention, which is a surprise to me.”
“Many seniors have told me that their investment dealers diversified their portfolio. Any small losses they took on the income trust side were more than made up on the other side and, in fact, they are ahead of the game.”
Seems to me that Senator M. Lebreton needs to receive a few hundred thousand emails from us clarifying the damage done by Harper to us.
Remember folks, this Income Trust massacre has to get past the Senate.
Get those emails out. Here’s the email address: lebrem@sen.parl.gc.ca
Let’s make sure that this Senator gets her facts straight!
J Townley, While I support your cause concerning the promise, when I hear statements like that from politicians it makes me curious so I go googling, this is what I found, it took about thirty seconds.
Maybe this is what the Senator is referring to.
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/GAM.20070501.RTRUSTS01/GITrusts
Just food for thought
oh, Oh, OH! Pick me John!!
Ask me who I’m gonna vote for in the next Federal election. Come on, please ask, you have every right to ask and I just can’t wait to tell you. Heck I’ll even tell you if you don’t ask…
Garth is running- I’m voting for him to represent us. Best dang MP this riding has ever seen (and heck I don’t even know what clown the cons are importing)
PJW are you voting for Garth? Go ahead it’s okay, tell us?
Garth – next time you are in QP, you should ask Flaherty to explain why real estate investment trusts are now going to be taxed when we were assured they were not. Does the Minister really know what he is doing??? What a disaster.
KH from Ontario:
I am aware of the article that the Globe published that falsely indicated that trusts are now selling for a premium over their prices on Oct. 31, 2008 and that Harpers Income Trust Tax masssacre was a non-event.
Anyone holding Income Trusts today knows that is a bald faced lie and that Harper and his minion have done unbelievable financial damage to our seniors.
The article that you link to was on the G&M business and headline page for just a couple of hours before being yanked off their pages.
As soon as the article was published, the Globe was flooded with emails and comments telling them that:
1) the article was factually incorrect as Income Trusts have not recovered after Harpers Income Trust Betrayal as they falsely claimed.
2) that the income trusts that they chose to profile in support of that (apparently partisan) report were a very small and select handful of the ones out there, and that it appeared that someone had purposely chosen those particular trusts to try to fraudulently make the claim that trusts are selling for a premium. They are not.
3) The Globe included REITS in the list of income trusts selling at a premium. Not only were REITs exempt from Harpers Income Trust Betrayal taxation, they went up in value because they were spared from Harpers massacre. To include them as proof that Income Trusts are selling at a premium when they are not is fraudulent and misrepresents the truth.
As I said, the article was banished by the Globe from their ROB page and from their headline news page. It was published by the Globe at 3am, and gone by 9am. Probable proof that even the G&M knew that it was full of crap (especially after so many people wrote to tell them so).
Senator M. Lebreton has absolutely no excuse for her ignorance in respect to the Income Trust issue, and frankly her statements strongly suggest that she is portraying a partisan position.
I strongly urge everyone reading here to email her and let her know how Harpers Income Trust Betrayal has affected them.
Here again is the Senators email address:
lebrem@sen.parl.gc.ca