The adage that a week is a long time in politics has been hammered home again. But, who needs a week? Twenty-fours hours will suffice. In case you were consumed with Conrad Black or engrossed in Paris Hilton, and missed the real action, here’s what happened:
First, pollster Nik Nanos, with whom I shared the front of an Otawa seminar room a few days ago, revealed his latest numbers. Cons crash, Libs stall, Greens advance. If an election were held today, there would be another minority, blue or red.
Then, Andre Boisclair tossed. The funky PQ separatist leader’s departure comes just a month or so after he blew the last Quebec election, and it is the worst possible news for Jean Charest, who squeaked out a minority win in the province.
That’s because (development number three), Gilles Duceppe will be the new Parti Quebecois leader (after a few details are ironed out), leaving the helm of the federal BQ, where he has absolutely no room to grow. But Duceppe is a wily, experienced, competent and smart politician – even if he is a caucus tyrant – and Charest’s worst nightmare.
So, (development four), this means there will be no federal election for a year or so. After the PQ leadership hoopla, there will be a BQ leadership race, and then the new guy will want a number of months to grow into the job. The Quebec developments and the Nanos poll together sink any lingering thoughts Stephen Harper would have about calling a vote.
But wait, more developments: The fixed election date thingy is now law, which means PMSH can not trigger a vote on his own. If an election is to occur before October,2009, then the government will have to be defeated. However, to do that will take the cooperation of the BQ, since the Libs and Dippers don’t have the numbers to defeat a Bloc-supported Con administration.
So, there you have it. The Bloc Quebecois, because of the Parti Quebecois, is now running the country. We won’t have an election, which is good anyway because voters are pissed at all the parties, and in no mood to hand over a clear mandate to anyone. And if an election is to occur, it will be orchestrated now by Mr. Dion, which means he better have a real decent reason to pull the plug early. This means, kids, we have gone in four weeks from an election being certain (remember the 17,000-square-foot Tory Fear Factory?), to no vote likely until the leaves start dropping two and a half years from now.
Meanwhile, my garage is piled high with 1,500 bag signs, hundreds of pounds of wire frames, a medium-sized forest of stakes with pointy chiseled ends, and two gigantic skids of four-by-four arterial signs. Oh well. I guess this means I stay a Liberal. (Just kidding, Stephane…)
But here’s the thing: For the first time since January 23rd of last year, the constant campaign might actually wind down a little. With no election coming for a year or more, MPs can stop being so blindly combative and partisan and start working together for the common good of the country. No more cheap shots, smears or innuendos. Meaningful answers during Question Period. Constructive cooperation on needed laws and reforms. No attack ads. Respect for colleagues. Committees working as teams. The lion lying down with the lamb. Garth getting along with the evil Jay Hill and prickish Peter van Loan…
Arghhhh! Pffffzt. Man, that was close. I need a hug.
Where’s Elizabeth?
128 comments ↓
Well I’m glad that’s been put to bed for now. So for starters there is this little problem:
“Canada’s Growing Gap
The Sleeper Issue of the Next Election?
Could inequality be the sleeper issue of the next federal election?
A new national poll conducted by Environics Research for the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives shows a record-high 76% of Canadians believe the gap between rich and poor has widened over the last 10 years.
The poll also shows that half of Canadians believe they are only one or two missed pay-cheques away from being poor.”
I think Canadians are still going to be pissed when the leaves fall in ’09 too.
HOT DOG
No more cheap shots, smears or innuendos. Meaningful answers during Question Period. Constructive cooperation on needed laws and reforms. No attack ads. Respect for colleagues. Committees working as teams. The lion lying down with the lamb. Garth getting along with the evil Jay Hill and prickish Peter van Loan…
What? have you got a new Job? Tester for the Gov. supply of medical mary-ja-wanna?
Don’t scare me that way.
I’m not sure what to think — I’m certainly sick of the electioneering absent an election call, and also really don’t like the Tories (looking at CAITI membership now…). But on the other hand, we really didn’t need another costly election just to hand off another minority government (though my guess was it would be a minority Liberal one)…
So, with an election now years away, will you press for a by-election for yourself, Khan, and Emerson? I agree it’s not fair for you to step down without the others having to run, but perhaps there could be a way to arrange that?
It would at least help with your stake storage issue.
Ha, ha. In your dreams. I have nothing to resign for. Comparing me to those gentlemen is groundless, as I am sure you understand. If you don’t like me not being a Conservative, you know who to blame. — Garth
Unfortunately for you Garth it looks like 2 more years of Peter Van Looney and his childish same old same old answers to all of your questions during Question Period.
“this means there will be no federal election for a year or so.”
BWAH HA ha ha !
I was RIGHT! If I had actually laid money on it, Esther would owe me five bucks right now
Just out of curiosity, how many western-style democracies have to accommodate multi-party coalitions these days? Israel? Most of Europe? There are advantages and disadvantages to be sure, but I tend to think that anything that avoids the two – and only two – party system of the U.S. can only be a good thing.
I can’t say I like the idea of having one Election Day for everything (MP, comptroller, dog catcher, etc.) like they do in the U.S., and I’m still waiting to be convinced on Proportional Representation. But for the moment I can live with a minority government if it will prevent PMSH from completely screwing the country in the interim.
[...] I read Garth Turner’s blog saying that we could wind up having to wait until 2009 for an election if Duceppe is leaving the [...]
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/carbontracker/maps.php?type=glb&prod=columns
Carbon weather for this summer and beyond = Smog. If we got 10 years to do something, big if, a coalition may be the one and only answer.
Garth, you (slightly) misunderstand me. I actually prefer you as a Liberal (though not quite as much as an independent)
I think floor-crossers (and again, you only partially fall into that category) should run in by-elections.
I also agree with your previous concerns that resigning would lead to an empty seat in Halton rather than a prompt by-election. But isn’t there a way to arrange a by-election for those two (and yourself) without resigning? i.e.: where you (all) keep your seat right up until the election day? If so, then you’re really the only one to push for that sort of solution, since I’m pretty sure the other two wouldn’t lift a finger in that direction…
If not, well, c’est la vie.
Here’s hoping the “members opposite” actually do start to focus on something else and answer questions…
I’m not sure I agree with your analysis. The biggest thing within the next year will be the passing of enabling/spending legislation to pass a viable climate change plan. The bloc supported kyoto and cannot possibly reverse this position without doing some seriously long-term damage to their party.
Simply put, Canadians aren’t willing to wait a year for a real climate change plan. The bloc cannot vote with the CPC on their climate change ‘plan’ and expect to win any seats in the next election in Quebec.
None of the three oposition parties could possibly support the conservatives in their climate change plans — and regardless of whether or not parties are ready for an election, they will be forced to call one on this issue.
Don’t return the signs just yet.
Virtual Hug!
This is not good news for Canadians. Events which effect politicians and their parties should not trump issues which effect the entire country. Hearing that Harper might cut short the taxpayer funded governance he’s paid for is rather a kick in the teeth considering his frothing about doing real work and getting things done for Canadians blah blah.
Which is it? Stick it out and get something done, or buy yourself and your cronies a nice holiday (which many ordinary Canadians can’t even think about, BTW!) or sticking out your office and timeline and getting things done!?
Emerson could soapbox all day long in Vancouver-Kingsway and he wouldn’t turn a hair. Is Harper trying to give his good old boy’s a head start on the BBQ circuit (taxpayer funded) or is Harper afraid to continue his government today, tomorrow and into next month? If not, why not?
What has Harper got to hide from Canadians over the summer?
Oh come on, it can’t be Emerson: he’s only got two choices.
This is perfect, you now have Harper on the back heel, a place he doesn’t like to be. The Con summer retreat to formulate policy should be a laugh as they now have to think in a broader scope to make all Canadians happy. The seething anger that will come from Harper over this should be fun to watch, almost as much as the sinking poll numbers.
This would be bad news for some Canadians. What about all the Liberal MPs who said they will not run again in the next election? They’ve already stated they are tired of the job and really don’t want it. Ms. Stronach is working full time for Daddy Big Bucks, Paul Martin rarely shows up in the House as well as the rest of the 15 or so who have made it clear they don’t want the job. Those constituents are pretty much unrepresented in the House. Will they quit and allow bi-elections? That would be the right thing to do. L
Here’s a quote i’d like to bring up before I write something else, “Garth, you (slightly) misunderstand me. I actually prefer you as a Liberal (though not quite as much as an independent)
I think floor-crossers (and again, you only partially fall into that category) should run in by-elections.
I also agree with your previous concerns that resigning would lead to an empty seat in Halton rather than a prompt by-election. But isn’t there a way to arrange a by-election for those two (and yourself) without resigning? i.e.: where you (all) keep your seat right up until the election day? If so, then you’re really the only one to push for that sort of solution, since I’m pretty sure the other two wouldn’t lift a finger in that direction…
If not, well, c’est la vie.
Here’s hoping the “members opposite†actually do start to focus on something else and answer questions…
By P* on 05.09.07 1:15 am ”
In my opionion, we need a PMR (or Government Bill) to pass that’d allow people to cross the floor if they’re not interested in a Cabinet Position. However, such a piece of legislation would need to implement a 1-2 ‘cooling-off period’, during which a floor-crosser CANNOT receive a Cabinet Position (starting from the day they crossed the floor).
However, if they wish to receive a Cabinet Position within that ‘cooling-off period’, they
d need to run in a byelection. If they win the byelection, the 1-2 year ‘cooling-off period’ is lifted and they can get into Cabinet. If they lose the byelection, it lets them know that their constituents disagreed with them crossing the floor for a Cabinet position, and they therefore get a new Representative!
So ya, what’s the advantage over this idea versus the status quo or NDP-style ‘floor crossing regulation’? First of all, it prevents Political Parties from ‘trapping’ MPs in a ‘doomed if you do, doomed if you don’t’ scenario: under a NDP style ‘f-c regulation’, ANYONE would crosses the floor would have to sit as an Independent or run in a by-election (there’s no say in the matter).
However with the Status Quo, people like Emerson can campaign (saying how ‘the automobile industry would collapse under a Conservative Government’). And then three days after the election, cross the Floor to the CPC and get a Cabinet Position.
So ya Garth, I made a PMR with that exact idea for the SJRYP (St.John’s Regional Youth Parliament) and such. But ya, if you really want to do something about this, try making a PMR that’d do what I suggested in this post!
COLD DOG
The Bloc Quebecois, because of the Parti Quebecois, is now running the country. We won’t have an election – Garth.
Or, to put it another way PMSH and the CPC can do as they please knowing that the BQ won’t vote them down and the Libs and Dippers can’t do anything about it! Essentially, the CPC now has a majority!
We all need a hug!
If you don’t like me not being a Conservative, you know who to blame. — Garth
Yep, I know who to blame.
What? have you got a new Job? Tester for the Gov. supply of medical mary-ja-wanna?
Don’t scare me that way.
Yeah Garth, What a thing to wake up to in the morning! Forget the latest Horror Flic, we have QP to provide all the shivers. LOL
It would be nice to see actual mature cooperation in the HoC. Is Harper capable of such humility remains the BIG question?
Garth – I know that you are sensitive on this issue, so first, I understand that you were kicked out of the CPC, and that you did not cross the floor. However, some of your constituents voted CPC, some of them voted anti-Liberal, some of them voted Garth Turner, etc. We will never know the divisions. What we do know is that the majority of them did not vote Liberal, or you would not be there right now.
Is it not fair as some have suggested that you should be obligated to run in a by-election if you intend to support, and be a member of a party, which was not elected by the majority of your constituents?
(1) A majority of voters in my riding did not support any party.
(2) I ain’t quitting.
– Garth
Sandy,
So who is to blame for the increased gap between rich or poor? The provinces? Canadians themselves for demanding lower taxes? The feds?
Personally, I don’t buy into the “gap” to measure whether poverty is increasing. In fact child poverty has DROPPED to 1984 levels albeit it’s still bad. The question that should be asked is whether the poor’s relative purchasing power has diminished over time and by how much.
It would be nice to see actual mature cooperation in the HoC. Is Harper capable of such humility remains the BIG question? – BILL-MUSKOKA
I you look objectively at Question Period, you would realize that everyone is abusing it. That includes the Conservatives, Liberals, NDP and Bloc.
(1) A majority of voters in my riding did not support any party.
(2) I ain’t quitting.
– Garth
Do you stay up all night coming up with this crap?
Not at all. About the same energy you just devoted. — Garth
HEY BQ, read why you should support turfing the Buffoon Brigade out!
http://www.liberal.ca/story_12759_e.aspx
Teyla,
I watch it almost every day, if not only listen to it. Sorry, but the biggest abusers are the C.R.A.P. MP’s…CONSISTENTLY! It is my version of an afternoon Soap Opera! LOL
I pretty much ignore the NDP rants, although occassionally they make a point.
Dion and Garth are the two most intelligent commentors along with that paragon of composure MP Bains. You know, the one with the turban who is obviously guilty by association according to Harper?
I laugh. Leasa, again. The CPC monkeys may show up – but they just occupy seats. They do whatever Harper wants them to do. No thinking, no productivity. Nothing. Keeping seats warm. The applaud on cue, laugh on cue, read PM approved Member statements on cue, groan on cue. So, in essence they don’t show up. And we pay these idiots.
Yes, they are idiots.
It’s a joke, an absolute joke.
KPK,
So who is to blame for the increased gap between rich or poor? The provinces? Canadians themselves for demanding lower taxes? The feds?
Pogo said ‘We has found the enemy and they is us!’ Hope that answers the question?
“The CPC monkeys may show up ”
“I’m not a monkey” – Fang from Dave the Barbarian
Bill M,
Please recommend a way to test that html tags are correctly applied other than by annoying posts here.
I’ve tried testing by Emailing myself without success and am stumped.
BTW, when does it become neccessay to insert in a message?
Not at all. About the same energy you just devoted. — Garth
Yea, but I’m not an MP.
I am, and I’m staying that way to fight for what I believe in. Stephen Harper tried to kill me once by throwing me out of my own party. I am not about to allow any of his groupies to do what he could not. Get used to it. — Garth
I watch it almost every day, if not only listen to it. Sorry, but the biggest abusers are the C.R.A.P. MP’s…CONSISTENTLY! It is my version of an afternoon Soap Opera! LOL – BILL-MUSKOKA
I did say “if you look objectively”. I realize you’re biased.
Teyla – get real, pay attention and stop your bias.
I’ve watched – I watch each person when the cameras go in their direction – be it Liberal, NDP, BLOC or CPC.
The CPC are pathetic. Really pathetic.
Teyla,
It’s Hell when someone disagrees with you, eh? Too bad. The CPC is a bunch of children whose behaviour would get them sent home from any kindergarten.
You don’t like that objective assessment? Too bad. It is called TRUTH! Get out of DENIAL! It is a disease.
Why hasn’t this come up in parliament yet?
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=f602f4bf-c0c2-48ef-be6d-59b4fed01f08&k=25470
Testing,
Try using your browsers web page creation tool. The same HTML codes are used for web pages as for blogging, only only a few are allowed on blogs. You got the ‘bold’ code correct BTW.
One thing to note, if you want to change a code within a code it is just like parentheses in algebra. Code 1, Code 2 Bolded Italic Code 2 (closed), Code 1 (closed)
Teyla – get real, pay attention and stop your bias.
I’ve watched – I watch each person when the cameras go in their direction – be it Liberal, NDP, BLOC or CPC.
The CPC are pathetic. Really pathetic. – SLG.
That’s you option, jackass. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (include you own biased opinion).
You blame the CPC. I’m blaming everyone in all parties. Which opinion is more biased?
Get used to it. — Garth
What else can I do? I can’t do anything about it.
Is it possible to impeach an MP?
No, and you do not even live in my riding. Try doing something constructive. — Garth
EUREKA!
Garth,
I have the solution!! The trick is turn QP into Jeopardy!
Don’t ask questions…GIVE ANSWERS, and make the government figure out what the question is! That will screw them up for sure. Besides it will be fun!
Teyla,
stop being tiresome. Please tell Garth to do something sexual and get yourself kicked out.
We need some new neo-Con talent on this board.
Teyla,
It’s Hell when someone disagrees with you, eh? Too bad. The CPC is a bunch of children whose behaviour would get them sent home from any kindergarten.
You don’t like that objective assessment? Too bad. It is called TRUTH! Get out of DENIAL! It is a disease. – BILL-MUSKOKA
Bill;
I don’t even know what to make of your response.
But, as I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is childish.
Is it truth? Yes, but it is your truth.
You seem to me as one of those people who has strong opinions, but is not happy until he rams it doen other people’s throats.
Live and let live. Tolerance others.
(Or else take some prozac).
Election? Feggitboutit.
If you are standing there debating if Canada’s leaders are on the right track, you’re going to be run over by the U.S.A. Choo-choo stoked with endless paper money rolled into a “regime” of record debt.
Garth, why can’t Canada just accumulate debt up to our eyeballs and then use that money to bootstrap our companies to buy out the world like America is doing?
It seems logical that along with all the other initiatives of the SPP that we adopt a common currency. Won’t Canadians then be burdened with shouldering part of that American debt?
Thers’s an old English saying comparing football (sometimes called soccer by the unknowing) and rugby. It can be adapted to fit the QP.
Rugby, a hooligans game played by gentlemen. QP a gentlemens (lady’s)game played by hooligans.
The problems with QP are:
1. The opposition are asking questions not to become informed but to score political points by showing the government to be incompetant. Harper did it in opposition, it may have started before that, but it has certainly continued now he’s PM.
2. Because the aim of the question is to embarrass, the government feels there is no need to answer, but resorts to mud slinging.
Either that or the government is so insecure that it sees every question as a threat.
Final result, as one blogger put it, a good soap opera…with the same pathetic story line every day! And all sides, as script writters, need to take the blame.
Fast tracking your life under the Security and Prosperity Partnership….
The SPP’s 2006 report identified stricter residue limits as “barriers to trade.” Chugga, chugga… Canada is now raising limits on pesticide residues on your food. We won’t even talk about what’s been absorbed by the fruits and veggies.
If you want to know what else is coming down the tracks, “going forward”, read the U.S. governments SPP website about the Prosperity Working Groups established for Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico.
http://www.spp.gov/prosperity_working/index.asp?dName=prosperity_working
I wonder what the Security Working Groups in the caboose look like? That’s classified info I guess and only available after the event. Do you have your Emergency Survival Kit ready?
Harper will call an election when his numbers perk up again. He will spend the summer thinking of ways to achieve that goal.
He cannot afford to have the separatist movement gel in Quebec under Duceppe, which will be good news for the Bloc federally.
C-16 means squat to Harper. Or Dion, for that matter.
Put the old politicans on the wagon, it’s all downhill from here. Choo-Choo!
Preston Manning and Mike Harris are on board and stoking the same SPP engine, using the same catchwords.
When “Think Tank” proposals turn into Bush style “Coercive Diplomacy” there won’t be any need for a Canadian Parliament. Of course “Steve”, won’t need that much arm twisting or primping to get him ready to ride that Missile of leadership onto “The World Stage”.
International Leadership by
a Canada Strong and Free.
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/pdf/CSF_International_Leadership_EN07.pdf
In Orwellian speak Peace means War, Free means Enslaved and Strong means hollowed out and the “Alberta Advantage” turns into 18%-100% rent increases, Work Camps, and 10% property tax hikes.
Has our PM finished reading “Animal Farm” yet? Have Ralph and Tobin finished their Energy study?
You think we have a Great Divide now between the Rich and Poor? This train is just getting started, going forward”. Toooooot-toooot, whatever it takes!
I found this reasoning on another blog and thought that’s right, when we get these poll results we rarely get the question asked to achieve them but isn’t that what marketing is all about, mislead, mislead, mislead. Polling used to be about informing the public not it’s all about shaping public opinion.
“Why don’t we read the question they asked:
For those parties you would consider voting for federally, could you please rank your top TWO current local preferences?
This question is definitely skewed in favour of the liberals. The CPC people would say: CPC and Liberal, because very few would consider the NDP or Greens. The Liberal people could say Liberal and CPC or Liberal and NDP, the NDP voters would say Liberal and NDP or NDP and Green. Because the Liberals steal votes from both ends of the spectrum, the question has the effect of artificially inflating their numbers.”
Teyla,
Live and let live. Tolerance others.
(Or else take some prozac).
Great advice. Now try it and you will feel better. In the real world many of us still call things as they are, not as the mantra of others think they want them to be.
Harper has yet to answer a question directly. He is a JOKE and a snotty brat that will never have my respect until he shows maturity. I could care less what party he is a member of. I look at the individual, same as I read your comments. Conclusion brain dead Harper troll who resorts to Flower Child like behaviour when you run out of defenses for indefensible behaviour by your favorite party.
You and people like you, including Harper, are the reason I would never support the CPC. You are just another version of the Funnymentalists Rethuglicans from the States, and they are beyond the pale of reality, they are terminal with DENIAL!
Garth, there is not a single thing in this post which address the reasons you listed not so many days ago for why “Canada needs an election. Now!”
We might be albe to hold our noses and live with many of Harper’s policies, (although try telling that to the lowest income people whose income tax was raised to pay for a lower GST.)
But the climate crisis, and how it was mis-handled by the Liberals and now continues to be mis-handled by the Conservatives, does not allow us the luxury of time waiting for meaningful action.
The opposition parties must find a way to bring this government to the polls.
Great advice. Now try it and you will feel better. In the real world many of us still call things as they are, not as the mantra of others think they want them to be. – BILL-MUSKOKA
Conclusion;
Brain dead Garth Goupie who bows down to the great Garth and the Liberal party. Tunnel vision. Unable to think for himself. Intolerant. Ignorant. Just taking up space.
“With no election coming for a year or more, MPs can stop being so blindly combative and partisan and start working together for the common good of the country. No more cheap shots, smears or innuendos. ”
Yeah… Right…. good luck with that!
The House of Commons may as well be a great big Preschool class for the all the decorum and respect shown there. In fact Preschool children are better behaved.
SPP – Security and Prosperity Partnership now being discussed on CPAC.
Choo-Choo
Previously, David Dodge on harmonization, etc.
Toot-Toot
Question: When the Pig in the Python finally gets digested, what’s left?
Are you getting a whiff of the future yet bunky, “going forward”?
Hey Muskoka, yea you at the back of the Blog. Are you an “activist”?
Do you promote “peace”? You’re not Auntie-American are you? Do you wear a Canadian flag pin? Have you been accused of promoting “insurgency” on this site? Do you have a beard? How many times a day do you say “going forward” and “regime” and “whatever it takes” or “doing the right thing”?
Do you carry nano-tech spy coins in your pocket? Do you abuse your veggies with a scrub brush? Do you feed your doggie table scraps when everyone else is ingesting melamine “in tolerable doses”. I bet you even drink Tap Water!
There’s a special place for dissenters like you. Go stand in the “Free Speech Zone” will you.
Corall’em, roundemup, movemout, Yeeeehaaaa!
OK, no election is probably not a terrible thing from most people’s perspective, but, if there’s not going to be an election, I have to start wondering – what happens when the government ignores the will of parliament.
I’m thinking specifically of the Kyoto thing. The Kyoto accord has been ratified and is Canadian law, and parliament recently confirmed that it still supports it, and has required the government to come up with a plan to implement it. The Harper government has shown that it has no intention of doing so, so…what happens. Is there a recourse, other than a difficult to orchestrate election, when a Canadian government ignores the law?
The antics at QP seem to be mirrored right here. Divisiveness simply isn’t going to solve Canada’s myriad of urgent issues that need to be addressed. Our present reality demands a new vision for all of us with the help of our MP’s.
What about a People’s Constituency? Is there any type of model for that? Our Guv was purposely set up for citizen Participation, to be inclusive of the citizenry. Why aren’t we using it, other than going to the polls once every 4 years or whatever. We are diverse, it is our makeup so it is time for true representation and democracy that includes citizen independents. The elected reps should be prepared to share the load/burden/power, to steer Canada’s destiny, because it is all of our destinies. Shouldn’t the gov be working towards the common good of all the parties and independents? We as citizens should be demanding a place, a power sharing, a voice..I’ve never seen such a demand and need for citizen independents as I have today. If an existing model exists, please inform us and then let’s get behind it. It’s obvious we have granted too much power over to our elected reps, they need our help whether they know it or not.
Solutions People, Not Bickering/Complaining.
With his fixed election date bill, Harper has once again proven himself to be too smart for his own good. Or maybe, this was his plan all along. Now at least he will get to be prime minister for at least 3 years, which for a Conservative prime minister, is the same thing as 10 years for a Liberal prime minister.
How do you follow this:
“No more cheap shots, smears or innuendos. Meaningful answers during Question Period. Constructive cooperation on needed laws and reforms. No attack ads. Respect for colleagues. Committees working as teams.”
With that:
“Garth getting along with the evil Jay Hill and prickish Peter van Loan…”
?
Charles,
Are you an “activist� Not that I am aware of, just one citizen with an opinion.
Do you promote “peace� Yes, but not like Chamberlain!
You’re not Auntie-American are you? When it comes to Canada first…ABSOLUTELY!
Do you wear a Canadian flag pin? Yes-proudly!
Have you been accused of promoting “insurgency†on this site? Not that I am aware of… but do promote democracy, honesty, wisdom, integrity, and mature responsibility…Guilty and happy to say so!
Do you have a beard? No,…never have, never will. Tried it once when I was unable to shave…itched like Hell and looked like crap.
How many times a day do you say “going forward†and “regime†and “whatever it takes†or “doing the right thing� Zero
Do you carry nano-tech spy coins in your pocket? Only when Tim’s was giving them as change…saved two for posterity. I may get more though to hand to to American tourorists!
Do you abuse your veggies with a scrub brush? Only potatos for baking.
Do you feed your doggie table scraps when everyone else is ingesting melamine “in tolerable dosesâ€. No. No dog or cat…they died of natural causes years ago. I do feed the squirrels and chipmunks sunflower seeds though.
I bet you even drink Tap Water! Almost always, unless I need some on a road trip…hose isn’t long enough.
There’s a special place for dissenters like you. Go stand in the “Free Speech Zone†will you. Okay. Thank you! I thought I already was?
Thanks for asking.
The solution to the QP problem is obvious. We need to scrap QP completely, and replace it with something more useful. I vote for having “Answer Period”. That is more accurately descriptive of what the Canadian voter really wants.
Teyla is like a wall. It feels so good when you stop banging your head against it, lesson learned, wisdom applied. Bye Teyla!
Thanks Bill,
I had intended to ask you when it becomes necessary to insert ‘BR’ in a message.
Looking back at my post, I see that I omitted the all important BR from my question. That’s what happens when I think faster than I can type.
Neil said The Harper government has shown that it has no intention of doing so, so…what happens. Is there a recourse, other than a difficult to orchestrate election, when a Canadian government ignores the law?
The Harper govt will have to introduce enabling legislation for ecoTrust, this will be a spending bill, and if it is defeated [which it most certainly will be] then it will force an election.
So Harper has two choices; get on board with the rest of parliament, and embrace kyoto [I can hardly stop laughing], or introduce a spending bill and play russian roulette with the bloc.
If the bloc supports the harper climate change plan, it will be entirely for political reasons at the expense of the country. This flip-flop would most certainly cost the bloc almost any future support in Quebec and imho just couldn’t be considered.
My guess, there’ll be an election soon whether or not the bloc wants it or not.
If the Liberals win the next federal election, there will definately be a PQ government provincially in Quebec. Somehow the Liberals seem to orchistrate these things so they can come back and save Canada.
Bill,
There I go again.
I meant to write “when DOES it become necessary” etc.
I have been watching QP since the cameras were first installed, and prior to that I used to read Hansard for it. So I have some sense of what the norms have been over the last few decades. It is Harper in particular that has caused the major degradation we have seen, which given his embracing of the culture war approach to politics pioneered by the GOP this is no shock/surprise. Before someone tries to claim this is fiction, I would remind those people that in 2003 Harper stated that this was necessary for the Canadian Conservative movement to grow and thrive even if it cost some traditional Conservative support. He said this in a policy speech AND a policy paper as LOO/CA leader. His actions since make clear that he is following the culture war approach to politics, one element of which is that all who are not with you are against you, are enemies to be destroyed by any and all means/costs.
The problem with culture war politics is that it requires a hyper partisan political environment to work in, as it intentionally polarizes (radicalizes is another word for it) the voting public to create a binary “with us/against us” mindset/model/matrix. In a democracy though one is supposed to be able to have and speak different political philosophies/views/opinions and still be treated with respect as a citizen of the nation as entitled to such views as any other citizen/party so long as the laws of the land are being followed, and that having such views does not automatically make one unpatriotic (see Afghan detainees smearing by the CPC government when it used the soldiers as shields for their inability to get their stories straight for a fortnight) or somehow and enemy of the nation, yet that is exactly the approach Harper and his CPC have taken since literally the moment the CPC was birthed.
Given that the CPC is a party birthed in betrayal and treachery (We remember MacKay’s lies and deliberate rigging the memberships so that six months after a voting majority to elect a no merger candidate suddenly the PCPC had a large majority wanting merger thanks to keeping memberships open one months AFTER merger talks were announced unlike the CA which closed its memberships immediately which matters since both parties allowed members to hold membership in the other unlike in all other parties, and we do not forget such clearly treacherous and dishonest conduct) and has shown a very strong double standard in terms of things like following election law where convention contributions are concerned, instead adopting a unique interpretation that no other political party including the predecessors of the CPC itself had ever taken. This was covered up and only became revealed when Baird slipped up in the Senate last summer and let it slip out while he was arguing for his government’s much trumpeted yet not actually followed Accountability Act. Then we come to who exactly was behind funding Harper’s initial leadership campaign to become CA leader after Day? There is no transparency here from Harper, yet his government wants suddenly to go after loans to leadership candidates? The level of hypocrisy that routinely wafts from Harper is something vile indeed, and his only defence for it is to smear and slime his opponents, because since he can’t elevate himself above them he must do all he can to lower them to his level. Which of course only further partisan nastiness can accomplish.
The degree of bitterness, viciousness, and ugliness (not the partisanship itself, but rather the tone of the partisanship, two different things) in the HoC these days is a direct result of Harper and the CPC employing a total warfare approach to politics where all those not of the CPC must be destroyed, and that any tool that helps destroy the main enemy (Libs) is to be used, be it the NDP in common interests (and then destroy them next, as they are the weaker threat to Harper’s CPC electorally) as we watched throughout most of last year, or the use of what are supposed to be non-partisan tools of government (as in setting up an inquiry into polling contracts in Quebec by the Libs including during the last referendum period by hiring a man that is a separatist and was a clearly hard core one at that when he sat as a minister in a PQ government under I believe Parizeau, and anyone with half a brain knows that the separatists hate the Liberals, especially federal Liberals more than any other party, and the idea that such a man would be non-partisan in this is ludicrous, and one also must question the wisdom of providing any separatist with the information within these polling contracts for what they could learn to use to advance their separatist agenda) to that effect.
So anyone trying to claim all parties are equally responsible, or that it is anyone but the Harper CPC is wrong, the only question is whether it is honest error or spin/deception done knowingly. This is something that traces back to Harper, because before he became CA leader it was not this bad, not the CA under Day nor the Reform under Manning. There was still some degree of civility/courtesy left then. No, it was Harper’s becoming leader of the CA and then deciding that the way forward for Canadian Conservatives was the total war/culture war approach of the GOP which requires hyperpartisanship as a basic component to work that is behind this ugly transformation, and this is what he has provided and we see the result in the HoC. So this one is Harper’s as the leading/starring player with the CPC as his background chorus for why the level of ugly partisanship has reached these new lows. For example, how many other PMs have clearly taken such clear delight in smearing their opposing with personal attacks as Harper does, let alone with the frequency that Harper does? While the odd example from PM’s is one thing, this level of near constant personal smear attacks from this PM is something we are not used to from any prior sitting PM, and if that doesn’t show you where the main responsibility lies then nothing will.
As to the impact of Boisclair leaving, if GD goes to lead the PQ then we are stuck with this CPC government for a while yet, unless a major political issue has a grass wildfire effect in the populace demanding elections (not something I see as probable but not impossible either), and if he does not go to lead (which I think is the less likely outcome of the two) the PQ then the status quo is maintained with the potential of this government being brought down without warning. I think Harper wants GD to leave the BQ and take over the PQ precisely because it gives him so much breathing room to try and come up with a winning sales pitch to get his much desired majority government. I also think GD taking over the PQ may be good for the CPC, but I also think it will be bad for Canada, as GD is currently the one politician I can see having a shot at rebuilding the forces of Quebecois separatism, even with Harper’s courting of the nationalist vote with his fuzzy decentralized federalism.
All in all there is little in this to be happy about, either as Harper opponents or as lovers of Canada if GD goes to Quebec. I would have preferred Boisclair hanging on longer, if nothing else it would have helped further weaken the PQ, and it is Quebecois separatism I see as Canada’s greatest long term threat to survival as a united nation, with Harper’s strain of conservativism coming behind it in 2nd place. I also have not forgotten the fact that the BQ is a direct result of the Mulroney nationalist alliance that Harper is trying to replicate, and we saw the negative fallout that alliance created for Canada with the creation of the BQ, what might be the negatives from Harper’s version and can we afford/survive them? This is something I think folks need to keep in mind as well, especially since Harper has shown he will deal with anyone if it gets him more power.
The last bit? Not going to happen.
The Cons don’t know how to do anything but move the country to the right. They’ll get their election after the summer when they have to bring out a new platform and unless they move even more to centre (they still won’t lose AB because of the special rules for oil patch expansion pollution and GHG exemptions) they’re going to try something that will trigger.
Why it was necessary to have fix date elections I don’t know. Stupid Cons-wannnabe-Americans.
Good electoral logic Garth,
I think the longer Harper stays in, the longer the scandals are going to go on, and his optics are really going to take a banging.
You know you’ve hit a nerve and the truth when you get angry silly responses don’t you? Teyla, et al have proven that.
Now – who donated to Harper? Who owns him – Americans? Religious right? NRA? Other American lobbyists?
If you honest and innocent Mr. Harper you will have no trouble showing the records.
Teyla is like a wall. It feels so good when you stop banging your head against it, lesson learned, wisdom applied. Bye Teyla! – BILL-MUSKOKA
Great. I’m glad you realize when you are wrong. Maybe you can change for the better.
The Harper govt will have to introduce enabling legislation for ecoTrust, this will be a spending bill, and if it is defeated [which it most certainly will be] then it will force an election – Kevin
Actually this will all be done by regulations – there will be no election on this. You could say this is anti democratic or you could say it is a government getting things doen for Canadians. depends on your perspective!!
BTW I count the “going forwards” because I get a royalty from them – 10 so far.
They’re making a big deal about this SPP not being a “Stealth” operation and that it has always been open for discussion.
I remember Garth saying that he only heard talk about it here from that wingnut, attack-cat ‘kitkat’.
Thanks Garth, for allowing this issue to finally “come forward” from under our tin foil hats. As someone here once stated…”you are a dangerous man”. Why am I and poster “Innes” talking about what Lou Dobbs considers to be the biggest story of our lifetimes?
Where do the Liberals stand on this issue?
Want more info on SPP?
http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/postings/water-threats-nafta.pdf
IF I told you it was this long…would you believe me?
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/
Additional comments inspired by those by Scotian on 05.09.07 12:21 pm
Van Loen’s new plan for election reform will virtually eliminate independent candidates from participating in federal elections. They are not permitted to raise funds before the dropping of the writ in an election. By eliminating any form of funding other than loans from financial institutions that means they have no pool of money with which to finance their campaign as the party representatives do. The ability to control the process will pass to financial institutions who are unlikely to make loans to independent candidates who are also prohibited from using their own money for short term financing of the campaign. In effect, the short writ period destroys the ability of independents to raise funds quickly enough to mount any realistic campaign even if they could garner considerable support.
More and more the power to control the electoral process is being placed in the hands of special private interests that have no accountability to the public.
In my opinion, represents the misuse of political power to entrench the cultural divide between the monied and non-monied interests promoted by the new right. The NDP today have accepted this right wing agenda and have lost any creditablity as a left of center entity.
Let the Doors be Opened
“In future all questions relating to the working of the farm would be settled by a special committee of pigs, presided over by himself. These would meet in private and afterwards communicate their decisions to the others. The animals would still assemble on Sunday mornings to salute the flag, sing Beasts of England, and receive their orders for the week; but there would be no more debates.”
from Animal Farm by George Orwell
The problem with the widening gap between rich and poor is much deeper.
Research has showen that the student performance pattern in schoopls has changed significantly in the last 20 years or so.
It used to be that most of the students will fall into the middle bracket with a few on top and a few on bottom. Nowadays, the distribution has gone the oposite; most of the students fall either in the top or bottom bracket with very few in the middle.
It is a logical deduction that those students will do very well or very poor in the workforce, thus they will either be richers than teh average or poorer than the average.
Re: Fixed election dates – not sure if I care for it, but it is a ‘fait accompli’ as they say. It takes the rush out of forcing votes of confidence – remember the edge of the seat excitement when Chuck Cadman decided the fate for a while? May he rest in peace…as for the possibility of an earlier than expected summer recess of Parliament – that could serve several purposes, but I believe that it will be viewed by most Canadians as ‘holiday’ time for MPs. But, as I well know, there is lots and lots of work to be done – appointments, etc., – in the constituency. The added fly in the ointment for all federal politicians, and those provincials in Quebec will be the Gilles Duceppe situation – do I stay or do I go – and this adds a little more to the federal ‘do we force an election’ or ‘do I engineer an election’ speculation. With poll numbers as they are for PMSH and crew – there will be no election consideration on their part now. I am very glad that taxpayers are not (apparently) paying for the big election War Room in Ottawa, that will now collect dust for a while, but we are also apprently on the hook for the make-up artist. Another shame on him idea…
I am seriously disappointed that we now likely will have to wait until the Fall of 2009 to rid ourselves of Canada’s ‘new’ government. If the last 15 months has been any indication, our Canada could be in very serious difficulty by then – lost investments, foreign investors snapping up Canadian businesses, a government that ignores its own laws by snubbing Kyoto – yes, my friends, this is not a good sign at all.
Teyla,
Great. I’m glad you realize when you are wrong. Maybe you can change for the better.
What were you in your former life…a doorknob? Duh! You should ask for a reincarnation refund…you did not move up the evolutionary ladder…you went down.
With poll numbers as they are for PMSH and crew – there will be no election consideration on their part now.
Unless they don’t believe that they’re really tied with the Liberals.
I think if Harper goes on the way that he does, he’s going to end up in mid-20′s by December.
The sponsorship scandal is running out legs.
K Murphy, Just to ensure you understand the new regulations, the Govt can still fall, it will just take the Opps Parties to work together and call a non confidence motion. The Govt can still organize its own defeat also by designating a bill that the Opps cannot support as a confidence measure. All this does is take away the PM’s privilege of walking across the street to the GG and saying lets have an election. So, keep your chin up, we are not out of the woods yet, depending on the polls and what the parties think are in their own best interest, Not our,,theirs.
SLG,
You know you’ve hit a nerve and the truth when you get angry silly responses don’t you? Teyla, et al have proven that.
That seems to be a fact! In fact, I have come to believe, based on the number of repetitive attacks I get from such ilk, that they must have a roster board at the CPC Death Star denoting who has ‘Bill-Muskoka’ for the shift! Good, a roster board is one step closer for them to grasp unionization, and seniority principles, eh?
I view their comments with pride because I am not only providing gainful employment for numerous Canadians (unless they are those groupie volunteers working to help build a better Reich?), but also keeping these people off the streets during their shift. That is what I call ‘progressive’. Heck, I bet they even have a ‘Bill-Muskoka Desk’ very near the Garth and JCLH, and several other regular poster’s desks…just like the CIA and CSIS. What do you think?
must have a roster board at the CPC Death Star denoting who has ‘Bill-Muskoka’ for the shift! – BILL-MUSKOKA
Oh, come on! You really think that you are that important. Do you think that the world revolves around you? I feel sorry for you.
It’s just that the stupidity of your comment warrant some sort of response. Unless you are under 10 years old, which I am beginning to believe.
And, Bill…
I’ve heard you mention that you are busy at work all the time.
You seem to have a lot of free time on your hands, what with you spewing out all these large posts. Do you work for the government?
What do you think? – BILL_MUSKOKA
I think you an ass.
“Mounties arrest Environment Canada employee for alleged leak of Green Plan”
May 9, 2007 – 15:37
http://www.570news.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n050965A
Teyla,
You expose your blind partisanship by reflexively calling out Bill in Muskoka as someone ‘who bows down to the great Garth and the Liberal party’.
If you were actually paying attention here you would know that Bill isn’t a ‘Liberal’ (with the big ‘L’ inc ase you can’t figure it out).
Neither am I. That’s called acting pre-emptively bevause you apparently have nothing else in your ‘arsenal’ but to term those who disagree with you as someone ‘who bows down to the great Garth and the Liberal party’.
I bow to no one, particularly not towards the ‘throne’ of King Stephen.
If I was in charge I would call an election as soon as Gilles is gone…Why not?? The BQ would be devastated, with no leader or platform, and the other parties could sneak up and steal a whole bunch of BQ seats, this may actually be the best thing to happen…But of course it reies on PMSH wanting that election, and with his numbers, you know that aint happening..Remeber that the only reason his support is still in the 30′s is beacuse in AB his support has risen substantially..Problem is that he can’t gain any more seats thee, so in the ROV he has nowhere to go but down…NDP included…All those “lent” Liberal votes will come right back and the NDP will have o give up 10-15 seats…With the BQ on the defence and the Cons going nowhere but down..It wouldn’t be hard to say that the Libs would get a minority, maybe evn a majoirty…Too bad that harper also knows this….
Good, a roster board is one step closer for them to grasp unionization, and seniority principles, eh?
Bill- Muskoka.
I hope not. They would be at the top of the seniority list and we’d never be able to get rid of them!
What do you think Charles, Do you figure whatever party or org he belongs to is busy right now deleting his name from its membership rolls. LOL, I do not care what party you vote for or campaign for this is a total breech of responsibilities. If this guy had done the same thing working out of the Finance Dept with the budget some people would of made a lot of money and we all would of been losing our minds over it. Fair is Fair, I am sure Bill will help me build the Gallows. LOL
KH,
I am sure Bill will help me build the Gallows. LOL
Tools are loaded, vehicle fueled. When and where shall we meet in Ottawa? LOL
Hey, we need to have Garth get the MPTv crew ready too…Details, always so many details. Actually the person deserves a reward for revealing yet another Baird Brown Plan. I’m thinking Order of Canada for whoever cared more about the people and truth than some politcal hacks posing as a government and Ministers.
Aren’t these the same ones who leave classified personnel files behind in their former offices?
Boy, I bet they want to work for CSIS? Then we can all sleep well knowing our country is in their widdle inept hands.
Actually, I still think Madame Guillotine is the best course…She is so swift at justice, eh?
Boy, did you see how pissed Teyla is? Must be PMS (Primal Mental State) which is quite common at CPC HQ…Reminds me of Cloe on ’24′…always ready to climb a wall.
I bet she has put in for overtime today?
Pssst…I think she has a crush on Steve!
James-Chatham,
I hope not. They would be at the top of the seniority list and we’d never be able to get rid of them!
Sure we can…We will just sell the Death Star to the Americans. They will be union busting like nothing matters.
I’m sure there is some able minded fraudster that can steal their building with just a little paperwork at the Land Registry Office and the bank. Mortgage fraud is so easy in Ontario, eh?
KH, thanks for asking me what I think -innocent until proven guilty, and certainly not worth the gallows. Does this rule still apply in this country?
Have you had a chance to read up on the SPP? Any opinions on it that you would like to share?
Charles,
The SPP and NAU are part of the Global ‘New World Order’ G.H.W. Bush spoke of back in 1991.
They were preceeded by the Trilateral Commission, and Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). All now fall under the directorship of the infamous Bilderberg Group.
There is only one real war ongoing on this planet, and has been for several millenia. It is the war between the Roman philosophy of Greed and Power, and the Ancient Druid belief of Communal Equity.
The former see everything as their’s to ‘take’, (by misinterpretation of Genesis And you shall have dominion over all the earth, and a philosphy that use it up and there will always be more to take. Such formed the basis of their conquests of the European and Asian Continents), and the latter who see all people as equally valuable (One human race, all sharing the planet’s resources as stewards, not owners. This philosphy spanned ancient times from the British Isles to India. It encompasses the beliefs of Canada’s Aboriginal peoples as well.). The rest is mere window dressing of different names, different times, and different members.
It is where we find the line between Conservative and Liberal, the distinction between Capitalist. and Sociallist.
The method is simple…assimilate the opposition, deprive them while handing them what they think they need, and have been carefully trained to believe those are real needs, and in the end a few gain the power, while the masses are used like expendable assets, i.e., cattle.
The sheep follow the Ram, and the Ram leads them astray to pastures near a cliff, and mindlessly they follow. Such is the nature of man and history.
A good reference on the subject is John Ralston Saul’s excellent book ‘The Collapse of Globalism and the reinvention of the world’ which shows quite clearly the game plan, how it has already failed, and what the proponents are doing to keep the corpse alive.
MEMO TO DEATH STAR EMPLOTEES :
Death Star/Truth Squad members must all sign in for the am/pm shifts .
We lost Eric Foreman to an unforeseen accident and Sean P. Hogan is MIA .
Come on people we need to pick up the slack on Garth’s blog .
Far too man leftist ideas going unanswered and unchallenged by this rabble rousing contingent ,from “Greens and Liberals ” as well as a smattering of ” NDP ”
Our daily quota of stupid missives is falling dangerously low and the Libs/Green people are actually getting their message out unhindered .
This is not what the ‘ Death Star ‘ is all about .
Our mission is to confuse and confound with stupidity .
If we can’t do any better than Teyla people we are doomed to a minority in the next election .
Herb, Bill Muskoka and that tyrant JCLH are getting away with homicide on a daily basis .
Just calling someone insane and then not backing it up with (for instances) .wholly imagined, facts is a waste of energy and valuable time .
Their responses are far too articulate and appropriate for us to just let slide.
Consider this memo as a warning .
We want to see more personal insults and far more stupidity from you people or your all FIRED !
No that rule doesn’t apply in this blog Charles.lol, Your classified by your last post( Heck I been a neo con, a green and a Lib, all in one Saturday morning). I can see I will be in the minority today concerning this person and what was clearly a breech of his professional responsibilities. Despite what one may think of the GHG plan, it doesn’t not in anyway excuse this act if it was deliberately done.
Charles as to SPP, I will be honest, I have only started to be concerned about it recently. I try to with hold comment until I can attempt to reasonably argue utilizing some kind of fact, what every conviction I arrive at. I will at this point say that I think it is time for it to become more public.I have always believed that the next world wars would be fought over blue gold, not oil.
KH,
Despite what one may think of the GHG plan, it doesn’t not in anyway excuse this act if it was deliberately done.
While I agree with you on most principles, there remains the principle of the Whistle Blower who reveals the dark plans of societal enemies. Consider that as a possibility. You remain corredt, however, on innocent until proven guilty.
I have serious concerns regarding guilt of any employee when it comes to anything to do with John Baird who has proven himself a LIAR!
The old story of the ‘Boy who cried wolf!’ comes to mind. So does the tale of the proverbial scapegoat.
and still we do not know of the deliberateness of the act.
As to the gallows and guillotine those were meant for the Minsters, not the employee. LOL
I, for one, am sick and tired of being lied to, treated like we are sheep, and having my intelligence insulted by the entire Harper government.
Bill, despite how anyone in the room feels about the GHG plan, it is not illegal, the whistle blower defense has no part to play in regards to this matter. If it turns out that this man faxed this document to the LPC because he disagreed with it, then with his position he has committed a crime. Legal issue are pretty cut and dried with me as I suspect they are with yourself. The Jury of public opinion will sit in judgment within the next 29 or so months. You as a businessman would not tolerate this from an employee that disagreed with you.
JCLH,
Consider this memo as a warning .
WOW! Another LEAKED document from the Harper camp. Why am I thinking of the H.M.S. Bounty?
Why a Hummer is better than a Prius and the dumb environmental movement:
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188
JCLH,
Consider this memo as a warning .
WOW! Another LEAKED document from the Harper camp. Why am I thinking of the H.M.S. Bounty?
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.09.07 7:17 pm
Aye,aye matey . Fletcher Christian
here….
KH,
You as a businessman would not tolerate this from an employee that disagreed with you.
No, unless I was attempting fraud, at which point the employee has a civic duty to reveal the intent.
Likewise, the bureaucrat works for the Canadian people, not John Baird or any other temporary politco. We pay their salaries, not the ‘new’ government of Canada.
How much of the political ‘blood sport’ do you think would be occurring if the MP’s, MPP’s realized that the bureaucrats are on the people’s side FIRST? Very little I think.
We are the employer, and is wise to remember that.
http://tinyurl.com/yole4s
Uncharted territory .
Why a Hummer is better than a Prius and the dumb environmental movement:
And if you believe a word of this poorly written/researched article then you are a bigger idiot than I ,ever, imagined .
With thanks to KH -
I stand corrected on the non-confidence options – I was not aware that the opposition parties could finagle it – I mistakenly believed that a vote of non-confidence still had to be tied to a money vote (either in whole or in part) or that the government had to engineer defeat intentionally by, oh, I don’t know – goofing up and making it look like on purpose? I will read the legislation more carefully and assume nothing is the same as formerly. Thank you – I stand corrected.
Bill, We will have to agree to disagree concerning this issue. There is no fraud, if the plan sucks it sucks, but it is not fraud. The people will eventually decide on it. Are you telling me that some one in Finance should of faxed a memo detailing the Min of Fin decision concerning IT’s. The reason you swear or affirm an oath when you work in sensitive govt depts is just for this reason. Will you feel the same if this turns out to be pure politics, some disgruntle LPC/NDP or GPC member trying to help out his preferred party because that it what this sorta of reeks like.
Garth?
Were you posting this drunk?
Utterly. — Garth
This is something that traces back to Harper, because before he became CA leader it was not this bad, not the CA under Day nor the Reform under Manning.
Aw, cmon. How old are the posters on this blog anyway. Doesn’t anybody remember the “Rat Pack”: Sheila Copps, Brian Tobin, John Nunziata?
They were so civil in the House of Commons that they would leap over their desks to attack Mulroney cabinet ministers. That is not an egarration, by the way.
And, Chretien launched some incredibly harsh personal attacks on opposition MPs that were ‘answers’ to questions.
Really folks, there is no holier than thou available in Question Period. It is a cess pool, and all the players stoop the lowest common denominator.
Ed Brooks:
I well remember the rat pack in operation, and I still stand by what I said. This is something I have not seen prior to Harper himself, not even from Reform/CA pre Harper, and I was no fan of those parties either. However there is a qualitative difference with Harper that is entirely consistent with his clear declaration of adoption of the GOP culture war approach to politics. This requires as I noted a level of hyperpartisanship unheard of in our system and Harper has delivered on it. As well, the rat pack were a bunch of back benchers, while Harper is the leader and PM, yet Harper throws out comments not even the rat pack would have on the personal level, which when considering how hard the rat pack could hit is no small feat.
So please take your rolling eyes and inference that I am too young to recall such things from the past and remove them from this discussion, they are wrong. For that matter, I stated in that comment at the outset that I had watched QP since cameras were allowed in and used to read them in Hansard prior to the cameras, that should have told you that at a minimum I went back a quarter century which includes the period of the rat pack.
I’m pretty sure that this leak is not the same one as the faxed information that was delivered to the LPC a couple of weeks ago.
This leak was sent to the newspapers and that is how Environment Canada learned of it and decided to call in the RCMP, as they knew exactly who it came from. Which makes me believe he was not trying to hide what he had done.
Not that I agree with Smiling Jack Layton on a lot of topics these days, but he is right when he asks, why do we have to rely on whistle blowers, leaks and FOI requests to get any information out of this government? Why won’t they just answer the questions?
http://tinyurl.com/29xq3k
Exploding the Hummer Vs.Hybrid Myth
Fueling the controversy
David Friedman, research director of the Clean Vehicles Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, thinks that CNW’s results and apparent methodology bring red flags. “This study has been completely contradicted by studies from MIT, Argonne National Labs and Carnegie Mellon’s Lifecycle Assessment Group. The reality is hybrids can significantly cut global warming pollution, reduce energy use, and save drivers thousands at the pump,” commented Friedman.
CNW’s figures, for example, show that the Civic Hybrid can cost nearly $165,000 more over its lifetime, “dust to dust,” than the standard Civic, which is a difficult figure to swallow, even considering the extra development, materials, and disposal of the Hybrid variant. Honda’s Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system is a mild hybrid system and many engineers have admired its elegant and simple design and function, considering the efficiency gains.
Another stupid article from the ‘Flat Earth Society ‘
Give it up idiots .
Someone’s gotta come to Teyla’s defence so it might as well be me. Teyla started out by stating that the CPC’s don’t have a monopoly on bad behaviour in QP; all parties are guilty of it, and the Liberals wrote the book on it. Makes sense since they are, of course, “Canada’s Natural Government”! And of course almost everyone on this post piled on, the subject changed, and if the posts on this blog entry go on any longer, some comparison to Adolf Hitler and the Nazis will rear its ugly head (it’s almost a blogging law, look it up).
The irony is that the decorum in this blog has begun to sink to the level we see regularly in QP. Tragic.
“I’m not a monkeyâ€
By KPK on 05.09.07 8:5
According to Charles Darwin you are a monkey .
Not a very bright one, but still a monkey .
By KPK on 05.09.07 8:5
I do remember the rat pack. “Sheila’s voice” unforgettable, when she got on a roll! I do not remember anyone diving over their desks. It could be on a day I was not watching. I didn’t watch all the time. But I did watch semi-regularly. It was fascinating, fast, furious, occasionally biting, insulting but somehow never so crazy as the BC Provincial House in the old days with Dave Barrett and the NDP. That was exciting stuff. People getting chucked out of the house for refusing to apologise and throwing more insults all the way out the door (being escorted of course).
But it was never mean. Loathsome. Slimy. Mean. Cruel.
In a different group it would be designed to make one cry, to feel so poorly about ones self. Gee, that’s bullying. That’s not allowed anymore. It’s a serious problem in our schools, no tolerance is the rule now and I’m sure Steve has spoken about bullying to his children (I hope). He would know.
“Trust Daddy, Do what I say and not as I do”.
“But Dad!, you do it all the time in QP, we saw you!.”
“You know you’re not allowed to watch QP!”
“We snuck into your office where cpac is always on and watched it in there, you were asleep in your chair, and we saw you bullying all sort’s of people”.
“Is that what you do at the government daddy?”
“Pretty much sweety, pretty much. Now go to sleep and try not to bully any one, no one like a bully.”
RM
You lose.
You brought up Hitler and the Nazi’s. You killed the thread. Nice job. Not! And Teyla (which ever Teyla this is) needs no protection. She comes around laying bait often enough to know what she is doing. Just as you do with the Nazi crack.
God, are you guys for real? Are you paid by the line or the letter? Tragic.
Teyla started out by stating that the CPC’s don’t have a monopoly on bad behaviour in QP – RM
Thanks for realizing that the comment I made was non-partisan. It blamed everyone in the House.
God, are you guys for real? Are you paid by the line or the letter? Tragic. – GEORGINE
What’s tragic is that this once great blog has degenerated into a Liberal propaganda machine. No other views are tolerated.
Just calling someone insane and then not backing it up with (for instances) .wholly imagined, facts is a waste of energy and valuable time . – JCLH
And if you believe a word of this poorly written/researched article then you are a bigger idiot than I ,ever, imagined .- JCLH
This is just priceless.
First, Jackie accuses certain bloggers of insulting people instead of posting facts.
Then, he turns around and does exactly that.
Jackie, why is this article bad? Why is it incorrectly researched? Are there any flaws in its conclusions?
I’m sorry your handlers let you out so much. They should really limit your time on a computer.
I cringe when I see your name at the bottom of a post. Almost as must as when I see BILL-MUSKOKA’s name on one of his 500 posts during the day (but, hey, what else does he have to do?).
Although I have not read all the discussion on decorum in QP my perception is that the situation has worsened. However, that has not happened over night.
In the past, the Prime Minister tried to stay apart from the nastiness rather than lead it. That began to change when Chretien became Prime Minister because he seemed to have difficulty being a statesman.
Our current Prime Minister is even more partisan and unable to even try to be the statesman. That really surprises me because I actually though he was intelligent enough to understand why a PM should be above the fray. He does not have that important quality of statesmanship essential to being a good national leader.
Good morning,
I see Teyla is at her post in the CPC Death Star spewing more friggin’ lies. The little wench can’t even see herself she is so enamoured with her lust and adolescent googly eyed adoration for Steve, and seething with multiple defensive posts to mitigate her own silliness.
She accuses JCLH of things, and then tries to convince us that she is ‘non-partisan’ immediately followed by anti-Liberal rhetoric, in this poignant display of schizoid hypocrisy Thanks for realizing that the comment I made was non-partisan. immediately followed by What’s tragic is that this once great blog has degenerated into a Liberal propaganda machine. No other views are tolerated.
Yes, it still is a great blog, despite her presence and mindless utterances. What a testimony to fairness and free speech we see because, were that not the case, her C.R.A.P. lies would not even be posted.
She is a wall, a blank wall. Stop banging your heads against it. It is not worth the electrons being disturbed.
Have a great day in the fray, eh? I am onto a major project all day. Guess no 500 posts as Teyla overstates (what else is new…exageration, lack of facts, and pure emotion, coupled with a dire driving need to achieve control because that is the nature of all neo-Cons…Control others, but never themselves)
Oh, and now it is definitely Teyla’s CRINGE TIME CRINGE away troll…Gawd, you must look like Gollum slithering around plaintiffly saying ‘Precious!’
No trees were killed in the transmission of this message but, several million electrons were inconvenienced.
C.B. Innes,
Re: HoC QP conduct.
To me the issue is NOT what conduct was like before, but what the conduct is TODAY!
The past is no excuse for today’s actions in QP.
I see Teyla is at her post in the CPC Death Star spewing more friggin’ lies. The little wench can’t even see herself she is so enamoured with her lust and adolescent googly eyed adoration for Steve, and seething with multiple defensive posts to mitigate her own silliness. – BILLY-BOY-MUSKOKY
Bill;
Here is one for you.
Steven Harpen was wrong on the income trust issue. What’s more, he mislead and lied to the Canadian public.
As well, he acts like a child in question period. But so does Jack Layton and Stephane Dion.
So, get you partisan head out of your butt. Until I see you post something positive about the CPC, or negative about the Liberals, you’re a partisan drone.
And, I challenge you:
What lies have I told? Please be specific.
At times, Garth does try to keep this blog balanced. However, most of the time, this blog has become a voice for the Liberal propaganda machine. This is understandable, since Garth is now a Liberal MP. However, Garth should not try and deny its Liberal leanings (bias).
And, the above is not a lie. It’s my opinion. So, get over it, jackass.
And the wall speaks once again. Many cracks showing through now…soon to crumble like the Berlin Wall…to dust!
LMAO!
And the wall speaks once again. Many cracks showing through now…soon to crumble like the Berlin Wall…to dust!
LMAO! – BILLY-MUSKOKA
You know, every so often you come across a blogger that is so childish, ignorant, arrogant and just plain stupid that he is not worth anyone’s time.
You’re it, Bill. Absolutely no use whatsoever.
Attack me all you want, you’ll get no more response from me.
Teyla is so stupid she doesn’t even recognise a cogent argument but blindly défends another ‘Death Star ‘ employée -KPK .
The reason is is that the so called report was done by a wholly biased think tank and the con side was done by real scientists.
Get it ?
You’re it, Bill. Absolutely no use whatsoever.
Attack me all you want, you’ll get no more response from me.
By TEYLA on 05.10.07 10:48 am
You promise ?
you’ll get no more response from me.
We should all be so lucky. Please abide by that promise Teyla.
You promise ? – JCLH
I didn’t promise not to attack you.
You promise ? – JCLH
I didn’t promise not to attack you.
By TEYLA on 05.10.07 12:49 pm
If you think you can then be my guest .
You are dangerously out gunned and out manned .
For the most part I simply ignore anything you post as it is either redundant or ridiculous in nature .
Looks like Garth is incorrect. Duceppe got scared of the polls indicating that he would be behind if the PQ vote was held today. He is now begging for his job back as BQ leader. Like I said, musical chairs.
[...] I read Garth Turner’s blog and he says we could wind up having to wait until 2009 for an election if Duceppe is leaving the [...]