Taxpayer-owned Sinclair Centre in Vancouver is now on the auction block, along with 8 other of our buildings.
Unknown by most Canadians, the federal government is embarking on a project to sell buildings it owns. In fact, we, as taxpayers, own more than 350 structures worth tens of billions of dollars. They range from office towers to airfields to the Parliament Buildings.
The bright idea is to take a number of these which house federal employees, sell them to private investors, then lease them back for terms of up to 25 years. The rationale for doing so is that governments are lousy landlords, that private sector guys can do it better, and that these buildings require repairs the feds are unwilling to finance.
However, does it make financial sense for taxpayers to sell off assets, and then lease them back? The Minister of Public Works thinks so. But Michael Fortier, the unelected senator PMSH appointed to his cabinet refused to tell MPs the salient details, so they could decide on the merits of selling off the first nine, for an estimated $1.5 billion.
That means the people you sent to Ottawa were refused information on selling the buildings you own, by a guy who was never elected. Why? Because the Harper Party says it signed a confidentiality agreement with two banks to do this deal, and will not break it. Even to MPs. Even in a secret closed-door hearing. So much for accountability.
I know this, because I was there on the committee trying to mine these facts. So was Diane Marleau, the chair of the group. MPtv caught up with here for this conversation on our disappearing buildings.
To view the video, click here.
158 comments ↓
Hello Mike Harris! Need I say more?
I’m stumped.
Anybody know a clever why of pointing out the government of the day is run by a bunch of outdated reactionary book stacking Fascists without being accused of namecalling?
Rule number one of ethics…
if you don’t want it published on the front pages of the media, don’t do it!
I understand the logic and the finances behind selling a property and leasing it back, it can actually make financial sense depending on what interest rate is used to calculate the lease payments and the return on the chunk of money you get for it.
But what does this say about the ethics of the New Government. Banks have always been a law unto themselves, but our duely elected government, except the public works minister, should never, ever, ever have signed an agreement that cannot be scruntinized by the HoC or its committees.
Rule number one in the New Governments book, if you don’t want it publishes, make it secret or black it out!
Hope the MSM picks up on this and splashes it all over the front pages. What is the New Government trying to hide?
Well let’s look at it this way, they are going to end up giving everything to the U.S., so I guess it doesn’t make much difference, maybe they could sell the whole country to the U.S. for say 4 million dollars per citizen, it would be like winning the lottery?
Just joking folks before you go off the deep end!
But seriously, this has to be the most unaccountable government in history! Everything is either blacked out or behind closed doors…
I thought that the reason Harper put Fortier in that position in the first place: he wanted an unaccountable minister to privatize government assets.
Astonishing! And the obvious caption for the black-and-white picture Garth posted is “The Great Fortini making federal assets disappear.”
Now, we do know that Fortier is/was a banker. We do not know the value of the buildings, we do not know what repair and maintenance requirements are, we do not know for how much they are being sold, and we do not know the cost of leasing them back. Looks like a win-win scenario to me – for the bankers prepared to make this deal.
Somebody stop this government before it does something serious.
I hope to see Ms Marleau on the National news talking about this asap. It’s pretty outrageous and hard to believe it’s okay for the gov of the day to sell off our assets.
Here in Regina, several federal buildings are now abandoned (noticed the former taxation building is up for lease or sale), and most of the federal offices are now assembled in what used to be a downtown shopping centre. It’s a Services Canada Centre and I’ve been there several times since it opened — not once, not once, has there been anyone in using the banks of computers, and the least number of civil servants I have seen congregated around the Information Kiosk is three, usually about five. You could safely shoot a cannon through the place.
What does steve have against us anyway?
Garth … do you object to the sale of the building .. or .. do you just object to the confidentiality agreement?
Please reconcile your response with your previous statements:
The solutions I have proposed my entire life remain the best: Less government spending; lower taxes on corporations and individuals; fair trade treaties; a low inflation-low interest rate policy; steady monetary policy evening out currency fluctuations; a single securities regulator and pro-investment capital policies. Get those basics right, then resist the urge to meddle in the free market. — Garth
This committee has oversight responsibility for the department attempting to sell these assets. We cannot do our jobs, and act in the national interest, when our own goverment stonewalls us. This is not accountability. Shame. — Garth
Why is this not being reported in the so-called “Liberal” media….This is so Mike Harris voo-doo economics that I don’t know what to say…Let me guess, they are going to take the 1.5 billion dollars made from these transactions, and then put them in the “revenue” category on the federal finance table…In theory, as long as you continued to dump buildings, you could balance your budget endlessly…The problem arises later, when you don’t have anything left to sell..And poof, you are running deficits, with no way to get out of the “leases” you have arranged…This is outragous and definitly not accountable..Garth, please send all of this info to the Canadian press…This will show exactly who this goverment stands for, and it isn’t Canada…
Garth … do you object to the sale of the building .. or .. do you just object to the confidentiality agreement?
………….
This committee has oversight responsibility for the department attempting to sell these assets. We cannot do our jobs, and act in the national interest, when our own goverment stonewalls us. This is not accountability. Shame. — Garth
Which two banks were purchasing the government property … and why do you think they would they demand a confidentiality agreement?
But seriously, this has to be the most unaccountable government in history! Everything is either blacked out or behind closed doors…
By pjw on 06.21.07 7:10 pm
Pardone messier…that should be ‘goobernment!’
Oh, let’s see now…that credit rating balance sheet would include a thing known as ‘assets’?
Ah, so, if the asset to liabilities ratio changes so does the country’s credit rating?
Therefore, the demise of the recent gains of our Loonie would be nullified by the credit rating change? Follow the money!
This is a total outrage! I can’t believe that Harper and his cronies have the gall to say that they stand for openness and accountability. This is a complete joke…and not the ‘ha ha’ kind. Thanks to your blog Garth we are at least hearing about this…otherwise we’d remain oblivious to the whole thing. Enough is enough…time to write some letters to my local editor and start putting some local pressure on our burger-flipping MP.
This whole issue is based on ideology: everything should be privately owned and used to generate profit for the owners.
If I remember correctly the Liberals did the same thing: they sold a building, leased it back, then did extensive renovations at the taxpayers expense and then did not use the office space. It didn’t save any money but it was a great deal for the private purchasers.
What a bunch of nambi pambi’s!
The methodology in Canada has been fine tuned by Conservatives in Alberta.
Of course, we all know it’s a form of theft but hey, it’s legal. I mean they’re (Reform) not stealing it for themselves but for their friends. And if it’s legal, what the hell are you all complaining about? Get real, Garth.
Real Estate is an unrealized asset until you sell it. If you sell it now and make billions you could easily afford to pay the leases for decades to come. The other benefit is liquidity. You don’t have to worry about selling when you want to move to another location.
http://tinyurl.com/3a262j
Looney Toon Oblivious thinking he is scoring points off of Garth but coming up with a big fat doughnut hole .
Your attempts at twisting Garth’s words are lame and stupid.
Give it up !
Bill from Muskoka is right. This is the nightmare Harris years all over again.
Example – selling the 407 for a few lousy billion in order to cook up “balanced books” for the election.
O Canada indeed
[...] Garth Turner reveals more of that conservative style accountability. [...]
Garth – Your hate and envy goes on and on. If selling these buildings was a liberal plan, it would be a great idea.
Right Garth.
You are such an
DELETED
I would also like to remind everyone that this is common in the private sector as well. My company sold their building and leased it back.
sounds fishy, the process has to open and transparent, can’t trust this government. follow the money.
Nelson on,
I seem to recall that some former Liberal government in Ottawa gutted transfers to Ontario (without warning) which forced Mike Harris to sell those assets to avoid going into deficit.
KPK and others – the problem is that parliament us being denied its customary privilege to oversee the public purse – revenues and expenses.
Parkiament has fought in the past to enshrine this – Where is John Hampden when you need him? Maybe reincarnated as Garth Turner?
KPK – You are clearly an operative..Here’s a deal for you..Sell me your house, and lease it from me for 25 years..Of course, I get control of the rent, so I’ll need the amount equal to my mortgage plus other “expenses”…Hopefully you enjoy the money I gave you for your home, but don’t come crying to me in 10 years, when you realize you spent it all and can’t pay the rent..Then guess what?? You are out…Then I can go ahead and turn your house into whatever I want…So do you want the deal or not?
I understand the possible benefits of selling one of the buildings and then leasing it back – the process has pros and cons, but understandable. But two things that really bother me – is this a firesale? How many buildings are to be sold in such a fashion and to whom? The same banks? My second point is the secrecy factor – I have heard and read many stories about Fortier and his penchant for not necessarily using the tender process – remember, he is unelected and therefore unaccountable to the Committees and to the House of Commons. This I find to be unconscionable. Why is this sounding like a backroom deal? Why are the MPs on committee barred from learning details? An important lesson to learn and use often – one must not only be honest, one must also appear to be honest – and I believe that this applies in spades to anyone in government. I fear this agenda – especially because we learn of it only when someone has had enough and informs us of what is going on. I can’t thank you enough for doing this Garth – we all need to know what is taking place – after, it is our country.
On a personal note – my son is due to return from Afghanistan on Day 371 – the day before our Canada Day celebration. And how sweet it will be – God bless all of our soldiers, here and abroad. We shall never forget you.
We should probably all sit back and take a big breath, because we’ll likely need it for that day when it’s disclosed that the purchasers are CPC supporting business people who bought the properties at fire sale prices. And the kicker is that they will lease them back to us, unrepaired and unrenovated, at top dollar. And, yes, I do know how cynical that sounds.
Good work Garth, you have uncovered another gem that will put another nail in Harper’s coffin. Your investigative journalism and MPtv puts the MSM to shame. Your revelations about the Conservatives only go to show how really corrupt they are. Not one of them is worth electing and Canadians are begining to hate them thoroughly.
KPK: Your company was not owned by the citizens of Canada. Do we not, as “owners” have the right to know who is buying our property and at what cost? Do you not have the right to see the contracts before they are signed?
The Government of Canada is NOT a business. Not even the New one.
The government of the day’s declared primary fiscal goal is the reduction of net debt. The sale of an asset will NOT improve that situation. In fact thanks to C-52 unless they manage to eliminate the surplus by the end of the fiscal year (albeit that wouldn’t surprise me) not only will net debt go nowhere but the improvement in cashflow business generally pull this stunt over won’t be realized either since all savings against the interest of the debt will have to be turned into tax reductions. Which’ll no doubt will make for a good publicity stunt but hey for them that’s no small bonus.
Well let’s look at it this way, they are going to end up giving everything to the U.S., so I guess it doesn’t make much difference, maybe they could sell the whole country to the U.S. for say 4 million dollars per citizen, it would be like winning the lottery?
Just joking folks before you go off the deep end!
But seriously, this has to be the most unaccountable government in history! Everything is either blacked out or behind closed doors…
By pjw on 06.21.07 7:10 pm
Oh how I hate the Cons cause they are US lackeys who will give away Canada to anybody with money. You are so right in what you say. It’s a disgrace to our great nation to have this govemnemt of traitors. I feel the hate just growing day by day as I watch that horrid Harper. I just can’t wait for an election to vote Liberal.
hey
anybody know if and how Joe Public can find out which T-bills are being bought back and whether or not we’re paying a premium?
Lease back works fine for the private sector as they can write the lease costs off for tax purposes.
The same can NOT be said for the federal gov. —– Or can they???????
By Ron – Muskoka on 06.21.07 9:43 pm
Hear! Hear! We of the Black Fly Country understand such realities! LOL
Welcome to the Land of Oz!
How is it that a *minority* government can engage in the sale of crown assets without the assent of the majority of MPs or at least with deeabte in the HoC?
Or is this something that could have been done in the past except that previous governments were not as arrogant as the current one?
Austin
What does steve have against us anyway?
By MJ on 06.21.07 7:46 pm
We are not Alberduns, nor Americans, nor a member of his sect! Oh, and we refuse to drink his spiked Kool-Aide! You know the flavour Purple Haze!
Is there such thing as ‘Contempt of Parliament’?
If so, does holding back information from the oversight committee meet the defintion of contempt?
Just wondering…
The Harper Party is in the habit of supplying blacked out documents and saying ‘trust us’.
Has Canada become another Venezuela?
Is Harper our Chavez?
Garth,
KPK has a good point. Sale and leaseback is common in the corporate sector. In general, I think it is a good thing where the activity has a limited ‘shelf-life’. Will the company be making widgets in 25 years? Will the government agency be doing the same thing the same way in 25 years? So that is one side of the matter.
On the other side, it always cost more to rent. The land-lord or -lady must cover all costs AND make a profit. The user/owner needs only cover costs.
Another factor is that government buildings belong to us, and become part of who we are and how we see ourselves. I think that is worth something.
When in doubt, own.
Which two banks were purchasing the government property … and why do you think they would they demand a confidentiality agreement?
By Observer on 06.21.07 8:37 pm
I have an idea for you, since it is the Conservative government that you love so much, why don’t you write them and ask them for some details on this file. After all, I am sure they would be more than happy to let one of their main supporters know the truth.
Question:
What is the source of Wikipedia information?
Its all about accountablity or lack off.
This might be the greatest deal of the century, but how will we know?
It’s the same mistake they keep making, as with Income Trusts they MIGHT be right, but how will we ever know if they won’t produce their version of the facts or debate the issue in an intelligent manor. With over 7 reports that the government is wrong on Income Trusts they should be eager to get their version of the facts out, hiding behind silence and blacked out documents creates entirely the wrong public image.
The public is catching on!
I would also like to remind everyone that this is common in the private sector as well. My company sold their building and leased it back.
By KPK on 06.21.07 9:52 pm
Yes, but in the Private sector it provides for “cheap” option to raise cash, and also allows for tax benefits, especially if it’s an older building that’s fully, or mostly depreciated. Neither of which the Government needs.
Again, it comes down to openness and accountability. If these are public assets to be sold, then show the values, so they can be scrutinized.
This is a one time thing. The next government can’t undo the sale once it goes through. It deserves to be reveiwed.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m all for desposing of government buildings…if it makes sense. But I do notice that this government treats the population more and more like uneducated masses, unable to understand their calculations.
FYI
China has overtaken the United States as the world’s biggest producer of carbon dioxide, the chief greenhouse gas, figures released today show.
The surprising announcement will increase anxiety about China’s growing role in driving man-made global warming and will pile pressure onto world politicians to agree a new global agreement on climate change that includes the booming Chinese economy. China’s emissions had not been expected to overtake those from the US, formerly the world’s biggest polluter, for several years, although some reports predicted it could happen as early as next year.
But according to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, soaring demand for coal to generate electricity and a surge in cement production have helped to push China’s recorded emissions for 2006 beyond those from the US already. It says China produced 6,200m tonnes of CO2 last year, compared with 5,800m tonnes from the US. Britain produced about 600m tonnes.
Jos Olivier, a senior scientist at the government agency who compiled the figures, said: “There will still be some uncertainty about the exact numbers, but this is the best and most up to date estimate available. China relies very heavily on coal and all of the recent trends show their emissions going up very quickly.” China’s emissions were 2% below those of the US in 2005. Per head of population, China’s pollution remains relatively low – about a quarter of that in the US and half that of the UK.
The new figures only include carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel burning and cement production. They do not include sources of other greenhouse gases, such as methane from agriculture and nitrous oxide from industrial processes. And they exclude other sources of carbon dioxide, such as from the aviation and shipping industries, as well as from deforestation, gas flaring and underground coal fires.
One of the best ever Linwood Barclay columns
Stpehen Almighty
ROFLMAO!
It’s not even just the interest rate spreads, quite often it can make sense to have a company that specializes in property management handle buildings… for example, we rent from a company that has hundreds of buildings in the area. That means they can afford to have an elevator repairman (for example) on staff and ready to respond immediately, but it’s not wasteful because there is enough routine work (maintenance, inspections) that he’s not overpaid for actual work done.
That said, if the economics make sense, just show the numbers and do it. This government has a BIG problem with “show the numbers”… almost like they know the numbers show it isn’t a good idea but they REALLY REALLY want to do it and they’re sure it’s good, the numbers are just lying…
Reminds me of an old boss I had that kept sending me back to redo the budget hoping the numbers would justify his course of action with yet another assumption change.
A few more questions -
1. If it is correct that “private sector guys can do it better” and that government by nature is inefficient, what does that imply for contracts negotiated between government and corporations?
2. The banks’ profit must be the government’s/taxpayers’ loss, so who wins this zero-sum game? If it is not a zero-sum game, who contributes the added value?
3. Why has this new open and transparent government nearly doubled the percentage of sole-source PWSC contracts from its reviled Liberal predecessor? (26% vs. 16% – http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3a778af5-fef7-4145-af71-77fd8f988bbd)
4. Are we looking at the explanation of why we have a PWSC Minister operating from the Senate rather than the floor of the House?
M. Duceppe, stop this government before it does something serious – ÉCRASEZ L’INFÂMIE!
What’s next – the 401? Harper promised to reduce government spending – uh huh. I read this morning that Harper’s government advertising spending is up 76% over Paul Martin and non-compete contracts under Harper are at 26% (Martin’s was 14%). This is only today’s news.
Harper is following the Harris/Flaherty economics – we are in big trouble.
You want accountability and oversight? What’s the matter, don’t you TRUST this bunch? C’mon, I’m sure that the bankster, entrepreneurial types will always put the interest of Canadians first.
Thanks for this interesting post, Garth; it’s sure making me think a bit.
It frustrates me that the Stephen Harper Party of Canada is selling these assests. This as a good example of conservative ideology that sees government as a service provider only, justifying the bit by bit transfer of common wealth into private hands.
The SHPC sees the government as an entity that sells its services to the public for tax money. Thus, according to this view, there is no morality in government, just services for sale. This makes decisions like these easy as it’s a question of practicality, not morals, that inspires the selling of public assets to private interests. Furthermore, government as a service industry becomes subject to cost-benefit analysis. Under this model, the private sector can more than often do a better job.
I disagree with government being conceptualized as a business. I believe that the government has a moral mission to support and protect its public. This requires common wealth and strength and courage on the part of the government.
How can we apply a cost-benefit analysis to that?
-R
The issue is one of trust. This could be the best idea ever but the CONservatives are hiding the facts and figures around the deal. This is the same thing they did with income trusts.
I’m making the determination that this is a bad deal. Why? Because the CONservatives are known liars who couldn’t put an an honest spreadsheet of numbers together if they tried. (Not that they would ever want to.)
If they can’t do the simple math around the income trust issue, I have zero faith they they can figure out if this idea is good or bad.
When can we vote and save our country fom these incompetent people?
The federal government will go from being the largest landlord in Canada to the largest tenant.
It will end up being forced out of the centres of large cities where it needs a presence because it eventually won’t be able to afford rents.
Cities will be happy though as they’ll now be able to tax non-federal landlords at what ever they want.
Going back to the downsizing of the mid 1990s the key questions was “is this a function that the government should be performing” The obvious answer is that the government shouldn’t be in the real property business. However you have to consider that the federal government is the largest property owner in the country. And there are properites that it can’t sell – hello Parliamentary precinct! So it has to stay in the real property business at some level.
Sadly this sounds like stupid conservatism. Kinda like the US where its government doesn’t actually own or operate things but subsidizes the crap out of them to the point that its hard to tell the difference.
On the bright side its very, very difficult to raise capital funds in government for new buildings or major repair so moving to a budget that will be much more operational funding in its orientation will be positive. It just won’t be able to react effectively to large increases in lease costs brought about by market conditions or rising municipal taxes.
BTW – you realize of course that besides advertizing contracts real estate is the other key way that governments leak funds to their friends – been going on for years.
I agree when KPK says –
“Real Estate is an unrealized asset until you sell it. If you sell it now and make billions you could easily afford to pay the leases for decades to come. The other benefit is liquidity. You don’t have to worry about selling when you want to move to another location.”
KPK is right.
Garth has also not mentioned that many of these buildings are vacant and costing us money. This is a very good move.
Liberals are upset that they did nothing about this. After all, they could have sold the buildings to friends for little money and then paid way more rent than required.
Thank God for Canada that you liberal swindlers missed this one. Just think Garth. You could have bought some buildings for pennies on the dollar. I understand now why you are so mad.
Liberals are very creepy.
None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees. — Garth
Oh wow, not only is this a big deal, but Harper’s being a total hypocrite: if he thinks the Senate is so unaccountable, why would he appoint Senator Michael Fortier as Public Works Minister? Or is this part of Harper’s plot to spark outrage against the Senate in order to Reform it?
Ah, so, if the asset to liabilities ratio changes so does the country’s credit rating? – Bill M.
Follow the voodoo math….
If you spend more than you take in in revenues, then liabilities increase. And therefore Assets to Liabilities becomes worse.
But, if you sell the assets and use that money to prevent liabilities increasing, assets to liabilities still get worse, but as a percentge not as much (assets – iabilities is the same, but assets/liabilities is less because the denominator, liabilities, is less!).
Also, the big ratio for a countries finances is debt to GDP. So if they sell off assets to paydown debt, or prevent it from rising, they keep debt to GDP looking good, and our credit rating doesn’t suffer.
Does that mean they should sell off assets? Thats up to them. Should they hide the details of what they’re doing?
Absolutely not! How can anyone say whether the government got a good deal or sold assets at fire sale prices?
Could this have the makings of a scandal the size of adscam when the details become known? Plus ca change!
I wonder to whom these are being sold to, and how rich are those leases?
I have the right to know.
Can building sales be done by order in council? If yes,can the AG be asked in her capacity of Officer of parliament to
look into this before the deal is done and close the barn door before the horses are gone.Surely a “make my day”
speech by Miss Fraser would bring attention to this accountability problem.JJLP
Garth’s fabrication quote –
“None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees.”
That’s bull Garth.
You are wrong Garth.
I have recently been in a couple government buildings and both had LOTS OF EMPTY OFFICES. Even empty floors.
Where have you been Garth ??
Head in the sand Garth ??
Your such a good Liberal now. So full of hate and rage.
Take a hate break Garth, before you break.
The nine buildings for sale are occupied. Do you have a comprehension deficit? — Garth
None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees. — Garth
Now your getting closer to the final solution, Garth. First get rid of the buildings and then close down these useless federal departments filled with make-work nepotistic Liberals pushing paper and then getting fat government pension.
I would think this would be in keeping with your fiscally conservative views, Garth, as you stated here:
The solutions I have proposed my entire life remain the best: Less government spending; lower taxes on corporations and individuals; fair trade treaties; a low inflation-low interest rate policy; steady monetary policy evening out currency fluctuations; a single securities regulator and pro-investment capital policies. Get those basics right, then resist the urge to meddle in the free market. — Garth
As you well know, Harper, should he get a majority government, intends to skinny down the federal government back to it’s constitutional role and stop it from meddling in provincial responsibilities …. something the centrist Liberals and Dippers abhor … but now you are a beholden Liberal with zippered lips … LOL
There are many federal government buildings nearing the end of their lifecycle and will/would need a retrofit to the tune of millions of taxpayer dollars.
Selling off such assets makes sence. Why not make 100s of millions of dollars in the sale of the building, while avoiding millions of dollars in retrofit costs? Yes the federal government would lease back the buildings, but they would likely enter into long term leases, at today’s market value while avoiding all future operations and maintenance costs.
What is wrong with this?
Wow. I’m confused by this. Don’t you guys as MPs have the right to access that sort of confidential information? Certainly you’d be required to respect its confidentiality, but…
Here’s my problem with the situation… If someone wanted to scam a ton of money from Parliament, all they’d have to do is to make sure their partner(s) in crime insisted on confidentiality agreements. Then no-one, including our elected representatives, could ever examine the finances. Want to sell your friends a building for $5? No problem! Just as long as there’s a confidentiality clause.
That’s horsesh**.
I’m not saying that selling and leasing back the buildings is a bad idea. It may, in fact, make perfect sense. But not only do we not have the information, the people whose function it is to oversee this kind of stuff are being actively denied that information.
Un-freaking-believable. If Chretien or Martin had done something like that, the CPC’s heads would have all exploded.
None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees. — Garth
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 9:12 am
Well…maybe next time you might want to get your facts straight John!
“I will strive to make this not the highest-spending country in the world, but instead the lowest taxing one.”
Stephen Harper
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2007/12/c3733.html
This all I’ve found so far on this subject.
Here is my thought…Sell the employees and keep the buildings.
By Grammar Purist on 06.19.07 9:29 pm
Very weak. A school yard “that’s what you say, well so do I†taunt. And days old besides.
The topic, if you need reminding, is “Class Actâ€, The retirement of the Honourable Bill Graham. Please join in or shut up.
By Georgine on 06.19.07 11:47 pm
—————————————
Geo,
This is just another cleverly disguised TEST. Nice try but you can’t fool me. Never try to kid a kidder.
My replies are usually “days old” because unlike yourself I am not chained to my keyboard. I enjoy a full life, with many interests and a computer for me is a simple diversion. My visits here are sporadic and primarily because I’m a disciple of Garth.
Now, while you type feverishly in an attempt to salvage what is left of Canada, I without a care in the world am away to the club for stimulating conversation with cronies. Followed by a pleasant round on the links, while listening to the birds and smelling the flowers.
Probably won’t be back before Sunday to check for your caustic reply.
GP
KPK – You are clearly an operative..Here’s a deal for you..Sell me your house, and lease it from me for 25 years..Of course, I get control of the rent, so I’ll need the amount equal to my mortgage plus other “expensesâ€â€¦Hopefully you enjoy the money I gave you for your home, but don’t come crying to me in 10 years, when you realize you spent it all and can’t pay the rent..Then guess what?? You are out…Then I can go ahead and turn your house into whatever I want…So do you want the deal or not?
By Nelson on 06.21.07 10:20 pm
Ha ha an operative for ..a Real Estate Agency? Your right in the long run you may pay more than if you held the building BUT that would depend on the term of the lease. At least when you are leasing you can move to a CHEAPER location after your lease expires. It all depends on what is in the agreement and how long the lease is.
Started by calling me a troglodyte .
That is uncalled for.
…and 99.9 per cent of your posts are uncalled for. I do it once, and you give me grief. I’ll apologize if you’ll stop.
By Ed Brooks on 06.20.07 8:01 pm
—————————————
Ed,
You were wrong to call the AKA king a troglodyte, and should apologize; but to whom is moot.
Troglodytes evolved successfully due to their intellect. Conversely, JCLH has repeatedly demonstrated that the sum total of his intelligence is CONSIDERABLY LESS than the square root of nil. This assessment generously gives him the benefit of doubt, because he has after all, ATTEMPTED poetry.
GP
SORRY I’M AN IMMIGRANT AN NOT AN ANGLO SAXON. I’M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS EXPRESSION!
By KPK on 06.20.07 6:16 am
It is an idiom .
By Hunter Mars on 06.20.07 12:44 pm
—————————————
KPK,
Please allow me clarify Hunter’s gracious explanation about “pot and kettle.”
Idiom is the Martian word for “I DON’T KNOW.”
GP
Hmmm! Thought I heard some bleating .
By Hunter Mars on 06.19.07 9:35 pm
Lefty,
How long have you been listening with your eyes?
GP
By Grammar Purist on 06.19.07 10:23 pm
Figure of speech ring a bell there Mr. linguistic genius ?
Guess you must have missed that class,hunh ?
Nothing to see here folks . Move along .
FYI it is called a Trope .
Irony is also lost on you .
By Scott Reid on 06.20.07 1:24 am
—————————————
Scott,
Still having a problem recognizing sarcasm, are we?
So, that moron Hunter Mars is a Tropist you say. No wonder I couldn’t make sense of his scribblings. All along I believed he was merely stupid.
GP
Again, it comes down to openness and accountability. If these are public assets to be sold, then show the values, so they can be scrutinized.
By Tim N on 06.22.07 7:26 am
Can’t disagree with you there. I think there were numerous stories in the Ottawa Citizen about the feds getting all or nothing package offers to buy multiple buildings in the Ottawa region from a company (can’t recall the name) if they didn’t open the sale up for tendering. There was an ongoing debate whether these bulk offers were better deals. Not sure what the findings were.
Yes,Myron started out life as an American .
He wears a ten gallon hat .
All hat no cattle .
Pushed a cruelty to animals bill through the house that I support .
Not sure if it has been adopted as law .
Maybe check the Hansard for that info .
By Scott Reid on 06.20.07 11:05 am
—————————————
Scott aka HWTHHBHLTSH,
You have crossed WAY OVER the line with this one Lefty. Shocking, that you are an advocate of “cruelty to animals.”
Unless this is another of your tropes, get back on your meds immediately.
GP
Democracy in today’s Canada, going forward. Leased public buildings, leased public schools, leased highways, and an everlasting mortgage. So, say something. This is Canada – your government oversight boards have Public Hearings for the stakeholders.
Finally, Albertans to get public airing of Klein’s deregulation regime by Sheila Pratt, The Edmonton Journal
“But the public, which includes you and me and them, is barred from the hearing after the AEUB ruled that citizens are a threat to public safety”.
Public hearing? Public Airing? No way! They, the landowners have to watch the “Public Hearing” on TV because they are not allowed in the room.
Pipelines exporting bitumen, electric corridors, superhighways carrying tons of chemicals through your community, water exports, nuclear power plants. Get used to it folks because you’re paying for it all. There’s wealth and uncontrolled greed out there…can’t you smell it yet as it moves forward?
Oh, and did anyone ask you if this is what you want? You don’t want poisened tooth paste and contaminated veggies? You don’t want drug and gun smuggling? You don’t want the American debt?
What, what, you want quality of life?Did you have your Public Hearing?
BBBBBBBBBBrrrrrrrrrrraahahahahahaha, We’re doing all that it takes to keep you
moving forward 
,it’s the right thing to do, under this regime.
Get used to it.
One of the best ever Linwood Barclay columns
Stpehen Almighty
ROFLMAO!
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.22.07 7:53 am
Love Barclay. A big,big fan .
Emailed him and told him I was still laughing .
LOL
It seems to me that the official opposition just squandered a whole session of parliament trying to embarrass Harpco over issues such as treatment of Afghan prisoners and making O’Connor look bad while behind the scenes the merry band of Robin Hoods in reverse keep stickin’ it to the poor and middle class.Why not just have a ceremony on Parliament Hill,present the Big Corporations with a Big Key wrapped in the Canadian Flag and say there ya go ladies and gentlemen the Canadian population is yours.Stick it to them all you want.
All year we saw either the NDP or the Bloc keeping HarpCo alive and at the same time many MP’s not even showing up to vote.It’s easy to see why the Con’s numbers are decreasing in the polls.It’s even easier to see why the others aren’t increasing or barely so as to not make any significant difference one way or the other.
In the US right now the Democrats are showing at 21%.They had a chance to stick it to Bush and they caved in BIG TIME.The Liberals,NDP and BLOCK had the same chance,same result.
And for the person who suggested the MSM take this current topic and run with it.You’ll be turning blue holding your breath waiting for that big news flash.Same as waiting for them to make an issue out of the NAU.
They last thing this goverment wants is an educated public who can actually think for themselves.Why would they when we have the MSM complicit with HarpCo to keep us in the dark.
I repeat. Why isn’t the oversight committee allowed access to the numbers?
It is very important that someone outside of the tight circle of Harper Party Cronies verify that they are getting a good deal for assets paid for by the taxpayer.
If the Harper Party negotiated such a good deal then show the committee the numbers.
Have the committee sign a confidentiality agreement prior to looking at the agreement. That is standard business practice. Not allowing access leaves the Harper Party open to accusations that they are incompetent or hiding something or both.
And the study saying this is a good idea is where ?
Oh, right blacked out .
Question:
What is the source of Wikipedia information?
By pjw on 06.22.07 5:57 am
Everyone and anyone can be a Wiki editor .
Oh, let’s see now…that credit rating balance sheet would include a thing known as ‘assets’?
Ah, so, if the asset to liabilities ratio changes so does the country’s credit rating?
Therefore, the demise of the recent gains of our Loonie would be nullified by the credit rating change? Follow the money!
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.21.07 8:41 pm
But but but Bill,
We still have assets don’t we? We have tanks. Lots and lots of tanks. And other things that go boom or that make other things go boom.
Ok, finances and war stuff are not my strong suit but I recognized at least one other building besides Sinclair Centre in the photos in the video as being in my corner of the country.
Fortier and SH must have been chatting up Gordo Campbell for tips.
Like he didn’t sell BC Rail to CN, he leased it for 99 years. Ooops, the contract says 999 years? My bad, so sorry, it’s a done deal now. Would you like a derailment with that?
I know Harris was bad, Campball is giving him a run for the money, he just more subtle is all.
Geo
Hopefully we’ll see a followup indicating the various costs/benefits of the options being considered. Without knowing the details on this sort of thing it’d be pretty much impossible to know what to make of the plan. Where will we find this sort of info?
Garth,
Has an election ever been called during a summer recess, by the opposition, on a minority government, ever?
Just curious:)
And if no, what would it take? Again…just curious.
Geo
None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees. — Garth
If thats true, then we have way to many federal employees sucking the taxpayers teat, and to many buildings in which to do it. BTW garth our federal building is not full.
Relax everyone. This is just the first step of a brilliant scheme. Only buildings in need of extensive repair are to be sold.
Once unloaded, they are to be declared heritage buildings and legislation will limit commercial occupation solely to government. Followed by an introduction of heritage tax on rental income.
Finally upon expiration, leases will not be renewed. Banks will foreclose, and government will reacquire renovated buildings at bargain prices.
So sad that many of you believe Stephen Harper is just another pretty face.
All along I believed he was merely stupid.
GP
By Grammar Purist on 06.22.07 11:25 am
I see you want to get into the mudslinging again?
If thats true, then we have way to many federal employees sucking the taxpayers teat, and to many buildings in which to do it. BTW garth our federal building is not full.
By nemississs on 06.22.07 12:21 pm
Is it up for sale?
Everyone and anyone can be a Wiki editor .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.22.07 12:08 pm
Do you think I could get, what some Con supporters on here are calling my book, my litany of Harper government lies printed onto Wiki?
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 10:02 am
We are all quite aware where the hate and rage is spewing from, it is from you John! Now maybe you could tell us why, we will all act as your therapist!
Is it because Garth was tossed overboard by lying Stevie, are you angry because he wouldn’t play ball with a man with no integrity? What is it John that has you so riled up?
The sales make excellent business sense.
Years ago RBC sold all their buildings so that they could concentrate on what they were good at (i.e. NOT property management)
We will know if is is good business or not when the numbers are revealed to the MPs whose duty it is to scrutinize the government. Until then, the issue is accountability, transparency and the openness of government. This is what Mr. Harper promised us. Sadly, it is not the case. — Garth
What a pile of CRAP! Nothing would have passed were it not for “Hairnet Duceppe” and the BQ propping Harper up.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=3dc24232-6a5c-4498-b692-7c17009f91c0&k=33703
PJ –
Go back to sleep.
I know Garth, do you ?? and Garth knows me. Does he know you, fool ??
We all knew long ago that Garth’s grandstanding was a liability. I understand why Garth did not fit in with his peers. He was not misunderstood. He acted like a fool.
Now he is a liberal and you can’t get lower than that.
BTW – Halton voted for Harper in spite of Garth. Garth’s mistake was thinking that HE got elected.
Sad,
Waste,
Pity,
Take a hate break PJ. Your about to pop.
We will know if is is good business or not when the numbers are revealed to the MPs whose duty it is to scrutinize the government. Until then, the issue is accountability, transparency and the openness of government. This is what Mr. Harper promised us. Sadly, it is not the case. — Garth
Since when has transparency existed behind an opaque cloak of lies and deceit .
It is clear that the so-called ‘Accountability Act’ has become an albatross around Mr. Harpos neck .
Shattering fourteen of his vaunted new rules the first week of Parliament .
Outstanding !
Do we need three pork barrels?
Canada is currently harmonizing and integrating our Regulations under the Security and Prosperity Partnership with the U.S.A. and Mexico. They call it the “Smart” thing to do, going forward.
Supposedly this avoids duplication and saves taxpayer money. Our Business representatives and government departments are looking at harmonizing other aspects from health, transportation, environment, energy, security, etc.
So, should our government structures and employees remain immune? Sell the buildings now and only hold a short term lease.
If you are going to adopt this Entrepreneurial shark-fest, then be consistent and go whole hog and outsource the civil service and even the politicians.
Is there really a need for a three government system when the shadow government is planning, implementing and dictating “the way forward”.
for more info, duplicated on three government sites:
http://www.spp.gov
http://www.spp-psp.gc.ca/overview/about-en.aspx
http://www.sre.gob.mx/eventos/aspan/
Do you think I could get, what some Con supporters on here are calling my book, my litany of Harper government lies printed onto Wiki?
By pjw on 06.22.07 12:34 pm
Give it a shot . Can’t hurt to try .
Speaking of really smart things to do, Cannon (transport) is now telling me NOT to link pollution with Nascar with the Cons.
“Canadians should not link a Conservative party ad stamped on the hood of a pollution-causing NASCAR vehicle to the federal government’s effort to halt climate change, a top cabinet minister said yesterday.”
ROTFLMAO! I think he’s been sniffing the gas can for too long.
http://tinyurl.com/35upbx
Here’ya go PeeJay. Wiki away to your hearts content .
Good luck !
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 1:48 pm
LMAO…are you voting age…LMAO
Sad,
Waste,
Pity,
Take a hate break PJ. Your about to pop.
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 1:48 pm
He may know you but he sure as hell doesn’t like you .
Hope for Sparks Street
Ottawa Citizen
Wednesday, March 07, 2007
Public Works is considering selling the Thomas D’Arcy McGee building, a good sign the federal government might ease its iron grip on Sparks Street.
The mirrored office tower (90 Sparks St.) on the southeast corner of Sparks and Metcalfe is one of nine buildings at the top of the government’s list for disposal. Nothing’s final, but the government is studying whether leasing many of its offices from private landlords who’d be responsible for maintaining them might actually be cheaper than owning and taking care of them itself. Let’s hope it is, and that the idea spreads beyond office buildings.
For decades, the major landlords along Sparks Street — Public Works and the National Capital Commission — have puzzled over why businesses have failed to prosper there. The unpleasant truth is that the government makes a lousy landowner. These government agencies have bought ever more of the property along Sparks, bringing their signature management style with them.
They sign tenants to short-term leases, impose bilingualism rules whether they make business sense or not, change the street furniture at whim, hike rents even as commercial tenants are moving out. Now and then the NCC leaks a plan for tearing half the place down, like a pulse of radiation. No wonder only the hardiest businesses survive.
Selling the Thomas D’Arcy McGee building might make financial sense for the government. It’ll certainly make planning sense for the city.
Someone has runoff of the mouth I see. Unfortunately nothing on topic nor of value to offer.
TGIF
Anyone catch Steve’s chat to the media regarding the Senates passing, and not, of the Budget and other assorted bills?
Geo
Anyone catch Steve’s chat to the media regarding the Senates passing, and not, of the Budget and other assorted bills?
Geo
By Georgine on 06.22.07 2:16 pm
Nah, I’ve quit pretending the MSM matters a whit .
I’ll wait for Garth’s take on that .
Geo:
Have a fantastic weekend . I hear the weather is gonna be outstanding .
I miss the coast but not the scenery tax.
Have a good weekend. We are off to get demolished by the grandsons again! LOL
Does anyone now believe that he wants to kill the party system? He let go of that when he couldn’t organize a takeover within the CPC.
By Sean P. Hogan on 06.22.07 10:07 am
Would you please supply some proof regarding your ridiculous statement that Garth was trying to organize a takeover of the CPC. Explain exactly what you mean and how was he going about this organization. Could you please supply some credible sources for this information…Thank you.
This from a Yahoo News piece regarding our Senate holding back some law reforms…
OTTAWA (CP) – Prime Minister Stephen Harper says unelected senators are blocking the will of the Canadian people and their elected representatives by stalling four pieces of legislation from passing into law.
The above is just one paragraph, but I find it somewhat comical that now PMSH feels that the elected representatives are being ignored by the upper chamber.
See the irony of this? lmao.
Marie…be patient. The presses will be running overtime the first time that NASCAR with the C on it crashes and we get pictures of it. Oh… I can hardly wait. We’ll get some comic relief out of that accident WHEN it happens.
None of these buildings for sale are empty. They are all fully occupied with federal employees. — Garth
Sinclair Centre does have fed employees. There is a passport office which should be expanded as there are huge lineups daily. And I’m sure there are other offices doing something or other mysterious upstairs.
And there is also lawyers and doctors and architects. Hair stylests and a really good food court. Gift shops, clothing shops, shops of all sorts downstairs. And none of these work for the feds. They just work. And pay rent.
When the building is sold. I’m guessing their rent will go up.
Geo
What a pile of CRAP! Nothing would have passed were it not for “Hairnet Duceppe†and the BQ propping Harper up.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=3dc24232-6a5c-4498-b692-7c17009f91c0&k=33703
By Captain George on 06.22.07 1:45 pm
That article is disgusting. Harper is being a hypocritical ass.
The senate is DELAYING bills? No, they are REVIEWING bills. It’s their DUTY to review what the HoC passes. It’s a check to make sure that things do not get passed that SHOULD not be.
This sad excuse of a man needs to wake the hell up. We have not had this institution for this bloody long for no reason. They are an essential part of our democracy. They hold the balance to make DAMN sure those in the HoC do not run Canada as their own personal playground.
The very NOTION that a senator could be slighted to 8 years MAX alters the very perception of being a senator. With having that hang over your head, they leave open the possibility to be reprimanded by their “parties” leader.
They NEED to have that assurance that they cannot be manipulated like those in the HoC can be.
No, harper, no one is angry at the senate for not passing these bills for you. Not very many in Canada really cares to much about it at all. But for those that do, they KNOW that what you are doing is wrong and should be put to an end.
This whole bloody “new” government needs to be put to an end. This totalitarian government needs a seriously swift kick in the ass. Right out the DOOR.
As you may be able to tell. I am slightly sick of this hypocrite. May a election bring us back a government that has some integrity. PLEASE.
The ideological right wing are biased towards the “private” sector and believe that only the private sector can get things right.
The problem is that is not necessarily accurate. The private sector’s focus is to make a profit on all operations; the public sector’s focus should be on service to the public.
A Liberal Government in Nova Scotia decided that it would be less expensive if school buildings were privately owned and decided to lease building from the private sector under the private-public partnership theory. It ended up being far more expensive for taxpayers. When a Progressive Conservative government took over it eliminated the practice because of both the cost and the inflexiblity it placed in the system. For example, if attendance no longer warrants the use of the building as a school, school boards are tied into long term leases.
When decisions to privatize public spaces are based on ideology rather than practical considerations they often make no fiscal sense. As I have stated often the Stephen Harper Party is not a fiscal conservative party. The budget is a perfect example of that point.
Harper made that clear when he was running for leader he saw the new party as a merger of economic conservatives, social conservatives, democratic reformers, and Red Tories. Shortly after he became leader, it became clear that this was the order of importance of each group and that the most important group were the economic conservatives.
An economic conservative is not the same as a fiscal conservative. The focus of the economic conservative, as Harper made clear, is deregulation and privatization.
Garth is a strong economic conservative but also a fiscal conservative which places him outside the ideology of the Harper Party. While he prefers to see property in private hands the transfer from public to private has to be based on sound fiscal principles not just right wing theories. I am sure that he will correct me if I mischaracterize his position.
Every so many years we go through a cycle of ideology (either on the right or the left) verses common sense and the taxpayer pays.
Does anyone now believe that he wants to kill the party system? He let go of that when he couldn’t organize a takeover within the CPC.
By Sean P. Hogan on 06.22.07 10:07 am
Would you please supply some proof regarding your ridiculous statement that Garth was trying to organize a takeover of the CPC. Explain exactly what you mean and how was he going about this organization. Could you please supply some credible sources for this information…Thank you.
By pjw on 06.22.07 2:35 pm
Has the original post been deleted ?!
The liar should take it up with LeBreton and stop it with the innuendo.
C-10 (firearms)
First Reading 07/05/30
debate June 10 adjourned by Senator Tardif (Conservative)
left sitting 5th on the order paper
C-22 (age)
First Reading 07/05/28
debate May 29 adjourned by Senator Tardif (Conservative)
debate May 20 adjourned by Senator Tardif (Conservative)
debate June 19 adjourned by Senator Cools (Conservative)
Second Reading 07/06/20 (two days ago)
Where’s the transparency on this transaction?
OTTAWA (CP) – Prime Minister Stephen Harper says unelected senators are blocking the will of the Canadian people and their elected representatives by stalling four pieces of legislation from passing into law.
The above is just one paragraph, but I find it somewhat comical that now PMSH feels that the elected representatives are being ignored by the upper chamber.
See the irony of this? lmao.
By Reg on 06.22.07 2:43 pm
So Reg, why did the senate hold up the bill to raise the age of consent to 16? The bill had a clause not to prosecute close in age teenagers. So is the senate telling us that it’s OK for a 40 to have sex with a 14 year old?
Anyway, our senate is overdue for an abolishment. Many of them have been keeping the seats warm for years and years – even decades. And because we can’t fire them, we are stuck with them until they are 75 years old. Seems a tad undemocratic, don’t you think? Heck, even in business, new fresh blood is required to keep new fresh ideas and energy coming. I’m not saying that 30 years old should be made senators, but, when someone has been in the same job for decades, they become stale.
All these senators are saying to us that they have us by the b*lls and there is nothing we can do legally!
Has the original post been deleted ?!
By Allan on 06.22.07 3:27 pm
No Allan, the original is on Mr. Credability, about 3-4 back from here.
Garth, now that the CPC is rumored to be doing yet-another-cabinet-shuffle, will the liberals switch up the critics over the break?
I’d like to see a more aggressive industry/heritage critic who will be able to give proper scruitany to the massive telecom/broadcasting and new media changes that are going on right now.
So Reg, why did the senate hold up the bill to raise the age of consent to 16? The bill had a clause not to prosecute close in age teenagers. So is the senate telling us that it’s OK for a 40 to have sex with a 14 year old?
Catherine, 75% of the crime bill could have been passed months ago with all party approval but the Conservatives said all or nothing! That’s why the age is still 14.
IMO that’s only true in part. The days of the great entrepeneurs (occassional poster child aside) are long over. Ignoring the true lack of a clear distinction between public and private, in North America over half of the “private” sector is dominated by oligarchies. Galbraith argues very convincingly that oligarchy’s main focus is on supply stability, price predictability and structural growth.
It may seem to be putting too fine a point on it but its best to keep prospective on the degree to which profit is in itself only a means to an end.
What is wrong with this?
By Adam on 06.22.07 10:34 am
The idea is sound but the details are being kept away from public scrutiny.
Therefore its not possible to answer your question.
But it does raise the question of what is wrong with this deal that PMSH and his New Government won’t allow the Hoc and Committees to view and scrutinize the details?
Bill -
I had no idea that when you skipped town from the US military, that you
DELETED
No one told these creeps to sell off our communal assets . Ever .
It is high time we took the power back from these losers .
Write your MP and tell them to keep their filthy hands off our heritage. .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.22.07 12:49 pm
More ranting by Scott Reid. Its Scott by any name. Just remember I’ll be watching you get booted around by Tim Powers in a few minutes on MDL. LMAOAY
Re: Sinclair Centre-
stylests and a really good food court. Gift shops, clothing shops, shops of all sorts downstairs. And none of these work for the feds. They just work. And pay rent.
When the building is sold. I’m guessing their rent will go up.
Geo
And that, Mr. HaltonJohn, is why PMSH is selling occupied federal buildings and not the empty ones.
Which bank, who is in it only to make a profit, would buy an empty building? Who would they be able to lease or rent it back to? Banks are not directly in the real estate business. They do the math and find that they get a return on their investment from the lease and rents generated. It a good bet for them if the buildng is already occupied, especially by a government from whom they bought of from!
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.22.07 12:49 pm
More ranting by Scott Reid. Its Scott by any name. Just remember I’ll be watching you get booted around by Tim Powers in a few minutes on MDL. LMAOAY
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 06.22.07 4:21 pm
Whatever you say ,you
DELETED
The sales make excellent business sense.
Years ago RBC sold all their buildings so that they could concentrate on what they were good at (i.e. NOT property management)
Halton Voter, it is not the duties of the government of Canada to be in business. There job is to make sure the country is running well & no funny business is going on. My advice to Harper is; just because you over spent on the budget trying to buy votes & are trying to raise funds to balance the books, get your dirty little paws out of our assets.
Have a great weekend. Cheers
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.22.07 12:49 pm
More ranting by Scott Reid. Its Scott by any name. Just remember I’ll be watching you get booted around by Tim Powers in a few minutes on MDL. LMAOAY
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 06.22.07 4:21 pm
Just remember to run with scissors .
Of which grateful bank will Fortier become president/chairman/CEO when he leaves politics in a year or so?
“Sad,
Waste,
Pity,”
Well done on the self-analysis, Halton-John. Now how are you going to cure yourself?
Re. By Herb on 06.22.07 5:50 pm.
Hi Garth, Herbs question about Mr. Fortier has me thinking. Are senators allowed to be MPs as well or do they have to resign from the senate to sit in the House of Commons? If they are allowed to sit as both would they be allowed to vote on bills in the House as well as the Senate? Thanks.
An unelected senator cannot be an MP or vice versa. — Garth
Of which grateful bank will Fortier become president/chairman/CEO when he leaves politics in a year or so?
By Herb on 06.22.07
Not TD-Canada Trust .. they already got Frank McKenna …. LOL
“BMO Capital Markets and RBC Capital Markets wrote the report advising the government to sell the buildings and now they are in charge of the tendering process. Not only is this an apparent conflict of interest, but the details of the contract are secret.â€
No collusion or chicanery there . Bet the heads of those companies aren’t even CPC supporters . Yea, right .
BTW – Halton voted for Harper in spite of Garth. Garth’s mistake was thinking that HE got elected.
Halton John,
You should really poll more than yourself, before you try to speak for all of Halton.
Statistically speaking, polls are wrong 19 times out of 20 when the sample size is one.
No collusion or chicanery there . Bet the heads of those companies aren’t even CPC supporters . Yea, right .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.22.07
Sucks being out of power until 2009 .. eh .. LOL
Keep on riding that Dion pony .. it may last a couple more months until a real leader emerges.
Just thought I would leave you this evening with a reminder of the kind of man and government we have at the moment…
HARPER LIES:
On Income trusts: Will not tax.
Result: millions lost to Canadians, millions lost through tax leakage.
Elected Senate:
Result: First act…appoint an unelected Minister to the senate
Atlantic Accord:
Result: divides the country
Widow’s benefits: Will do immediately.
Result: over 18 months of nothing done.
Campaigning in the House:
Result: Lies about Liberal appointments
HARPER’S INABILITY TO MANAGE GOVERNMENT
HIGHLIGHTED BY:
LIES OF THE DEFENCE MINISTER – 3 TIMES
BLAMES THE TROOPS FOR THE DEFENCE MINISTER’S LIE
THE LIE OF THE FOREIGN MINISTER
DECEPTION OF THE FINANCE MINISTER
USING AMBROSE AS SCAPEGOAT FOR FAILED ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY
THE CPC MANUAL ON HOW TO DESTROY PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEES
The majority of the senate demonstrated today, in passing the budget, that it is a self serving entity only looking to protect Senators personal interests. They can delay passing senate reform but rubber stamp a budget that is based on lies and falsehoods. Well boys and girls, it looks like Harper has you in his gun sights and I see no reason for him not to pull the trigger and carry out his threat quoted below.
“Harper also threatened to some how marginalize the Senate, saying the Liberal dominated Upper Chamber has made a series of “tragic†mistakes by purposely delaying crime bills passed by MPs.
“Such an attitude will have consequences for the Senate,†said Harper, who wants an elected Senate, not appointed as it is now. ‘
It is truly a shame that Canada is being broken into splinters that Harper can attack individually without having them join together to fight back. A toothpick can be broken easily and 2X4 is much harder.
I am ashamed of the Senate
TIME HAS COME TODAY
I consider myself to be a true Canadian. Yeah, my URL is Ontario but guess what…Ontario has had it good…BC has had it good….and Lord knows Alberta has had it real good all these years. Let the Atlantic Provinces have their turn. People may even see an opportunity to move there in the future if there is economic growth….imagine that! What we really need to do is BLOCK the BQ and remove the legal existance of the party. The BQ stands for separation and only that. Why should a traitor’s vote be allowed to carry any weight in improving the lives of all Canadians? It disgusts me to see the CPC in bed with “Hairnet Duceppe” and claim their policies are what Canadians want. CPC policies and the Budget would never have reached first base without support of SEPARATISTS! So next time you watch NASCAR RACING , visit Canadian Tire or sip your Timmy’s , you know you fall within the so-called group that inhales the bovine methane and drinks the KOOL AID of the HARPER DRUIDS. Have a great summer and don’t bet on the CPC NASCAR.
What’s so self-serving about shelving the Senate bill?
Harper is quite hypocritical. While he complains when the unelected Senate plays the role for which it was intended but at the same time he has no qualms about putting an unelected Senator in a position of power within his government.
He also refusing to accept the Kyoto targets voted by a majority of both the House of Commons and the Senate. He is saying that he has the right to ignore the wishes of those representing the majority of Canadian voters. If a leader can ignore Parliament do we really have a democracy or an elected dictatorship?
Harper is now trying to “blame” the opposition for his inability to extend the Afghanistan mission beyond 2009. However, a Prime Minister in Council has the authority to do that without the approval of Parliament. It is his “policy” to gain the approval of Parliament. But he cannot transfer responsibility simply through party policy.
There is no logical consistency in his positions.
I cannot believe I once considered Stephen Harper intelligent.
Where’s the transparency on this transaction?
By LoH_Numa on 06.22.07 3:41 pm
In all the blacked out pages .
Take a hate break PJ. Your about to pop.
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 1:48 pm
—————-
Ah, once again Halton John is showing us who it is that needs to take a “hate break” himself.
John calm down, go into the little room that you have your “Steven Almighty” shrine set up and start a humming & a chanting. There now, feel better John?.
Just thought I would leave you this evening with a reminder of the kind of man and government we have at the moment…
By pjw on 06.22.07 7:50 pm
You really hate real men .. dontcha …!!!
Harper is 2.5 times the leader than Dion according to the SES “Best PM” poll (Harper 42%, Dion 16.7%). Canadians think that Dion is equal to Layton as a leader of Canada … go figure ..!!!
(In Quebec, francophone Quebecers prefer Harper over Dion by four to one … 42% to 10.1% … and the RoC should find out why Dion is so despised in Quebec!)
Garth,
What do you think about Harper’s challenge of the Supremacy of Parliament?
PJ
What’s going on ??
Are you fliping out or something ??
Calm down now,,,
Go back to sleep PJ,,,
Calm,,,
Calm,,
That’s it.
…They can delay passing senate reform…
“What’s so self-serving about shelving the Senate bill?
By Brian Dondo on 06.22.07 8:44 pm ”
Uh, they get to keep collecting thei paychecks while screwing Canadians. They ‘said’ they would conduct a thorough review of the budget bill, and I don’t think a couple days did THAT, when they have held up senate reforms for ~1yr which directly impacts THEM!
Where are all of the comments from the observer (oxy-moron, pun intended).
He can’t help but bore us to tears commenting over and over and over again on every other topic, but when the cons are shown for what they truly are, con(victs) he has nothing to say.
You and your hypocritical party can run but you can’t hide, the Canadian will find you and punish you in the next election.
…This whole bloody “new†government needs to be put to an end. This totalitarian government needs a seriously swift kick in the ass. Right out the DOOR.
As you may be able to tell. I am slightly sick of this hypocrite. May a election bring us back a government that has some integrity. PLEASE.
By SJ on 06.22.07 3:19 pm
Hear hear!! SJ!! I couldn’t agree with you more!
Let’s have an election sooner rather than later before more damage is done.
Up with Dion! Down with Harper!
Geo
Helfarch Mawrth
I like this nic. I cannot pronounce it but I like the way it looks. Might I borrow a variation of it one day Helfarch? Feminized a bit perhaps.
Geo
pjw very neatly wrote:
… HARPER’S INABILITY TO MANAGE GOVERNMENT
HIGHLIGHTED BY:
LIES OF THE DEFENCE MINISTER – 3 TIMES
BLAMES THE TROOPS FOR THE DEFENCE MINISTER’S LIE …
and this is just the beginning of a very very long list that each and every one of us here is familiar with no matter what side of the fence we may claim to sit on. No surprises on the list at all.
A little OT with regards to Federal Buildings but not OT when it comes to the Cons.
The burning question… who might replace General Oops O’Conner?
It is a NAPO story but their speculation is pretty funny is a sick sort of way.
My fav line from the pollster (Ipsos Reid):
“The symbolic aspect of taking a fresh look at how we might approach the war might have some positive impact. As far as people seeing that the current minister of defence is the problem, I don’t think that’s a realistic assessment,”
http://tinyurl.com/3bmozs
It just keeps getting better and better. /sarcasm off
Geo
By Haltonjohn on 06.22.07 9:35 pm
Your posts are so juvenile, come up with some facts to refute what I post or crawl back into your crib!
By Observer on 06.22.07 8:56 pm
Unlike yourself who has posted negative comments towards women, I do not hate anyone, I dislike intensely the liar we have at the moment at the head of government. Not because of his person but because he is a hypocrite who ran on one set of principles and governs under the exact opposite. Instead of quoting polls, why don’t you sit down and refute the facts I have stated in what some Cons have called my book?
llwynoges Arglwyddes :Translation is Vixen lady wife to a Lord.
Mam fedydd Daearu : Mother Earth
iechydwriaeth : Salvation, healing
Here are a couple Georgine . No literal translation exists for your name . Sorry.
If you have some other names you’d like to try let me know .
HM
http://tinyurl.com/2tbv2v
Burning down the House
Harper is 2.5 times the leader than Dion according to the SES “Best PM†poll (Harper 42%, Dion 16.7%). Canadians think that Dion is equal to Layton as a leader of Canada … go figure ..!!!
(In Quebec, francophone Quebecers prefer Harper over Dion by four to one … 42% to 10.1% … and the RoC should find out why Dion is so despised in Quebec!)
By Observer on 06.22.07 8:56 pm
……………..
… I do not hate anyone, I dislike intensely the liar we have at the moment at the head of government. Not because of his person but because he is a hypocrite who ran on one set of principles and governs under the exact opposite. Instead of quoting polls, why don’t you sit down and refute the facts I have stated in what some Cons have called my book?
By pjw on 06.23.07 4:59 am
…………………..
What you call “facts” is nothing more than your Liberal-biased “feeeelings” about somebody that you “haaate” with a passion.
I will depend on the opinion of Canadians and not one disgruntled Liberal woman who obviously hates men.
The fact is Canadians rejected the overt Liberal corruption that overwhelmed the Chretien-Martin-Dion regimes. If you forgive Dion for allowing Canadian GHG emissions to rise 35% above our Kyoto commitments, and then proposed to send $5 BILLION of Canadian taxpayer’s money to China to buy Carbon Credits to finance their high sulphur coal fired power stations … then you can have your Liberal scoundrels and their friends in China.
The Liberal party will be worthy of consideration for government when they purge the old dog crooks … starting with Dion.
The burning question… who might replace General Oops O’Conner?
By Georgine on 06.23.07 2:55 am
How about Joe Comuzzi to replace O’connor. He will be joining the Conservative Party next Tuesday. I think he would do a fine job. LMAO
The fact is Canadians rejected the overt Liberal corruption that overwhelmed the Chretien-Martin-Dion regimes.
No, a fact is that you have been overwhelmingly proven to be a “Under the Bridge Dwelling Filthy Troll ”
Rejected !
The fact is Canadians rejected the overt Liberal corruption that overwhelmed the Chretien-Martin-Dion regimes.
No, a fact is that you have been overwhelmingly proven to be a “Under the Bridge Dwelling Filthy Troll â€
Rejected !
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.23.07
Oh how the bitter truth sears your mind … knowing that Canadians rejected the slime and crime of the Liberals and chose the new clean Conservatives …. who must clean out the Liberal detritus from government asap … and the job will be completed when Canadians give Harper the majority government in the next election.
Meanwhile you and your precious leeder Dion will be sitting in opposition until 2009 … and their vile bile and spewing venom will cover them in their cesspool of degeneration …. unless a new Liberal leader emerges and purges the party of it’s infamy.
I endured thirteen years of arrogance, thievery and broken promises by a government that stripped my pockets clean. Get used to the situation because it isn’t going to change any time soon.
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 06.23.07 3:43 p
And the farmer took another load away and i can tell by the smell it ain’t hay.
I would take a shower if
DELETED
What you call “facts†is nothing more than your Liberal-biased “feeeelings†about somebody that you “haaate†with a passion.
I will depend on the opinion of Canadians and not one disgruntled Liberal woman who obviously hates men.
By Observer….
You are so off base…it is laughable…you really have no idea at all, your observing and listening skills are really low….and every thing I had to say about your idol Harper is true and factual…oh and in case you are interested I spent my day helping my son in law and and son put up and new fence around his pool…lol…some job for for an “old disgruntled liberal woman” eh? By the way, I am male, 66 years of age, and not a liberal..other than than you were reasonably close…LMAO…
Would you please supply some proof regarding your ridiculous statement that Garth was trying to organize a takeover of the CPC. Explain exactly what you mean and how was he going about this organization. Could you please supply some credible sources for this information…Thank you.
By pjw on 06.22.07 2:35 pm
Hmm, I’d have to be on the inside to do that. But since I’m not, its speculation based on many actions by Garth.
You may consider this ridiculous, its no more ridiculous than so many of the neo-libs here who state that Bush controls Harper without any proof.
PJW, one does not need sources to figure things out for oneself. For example:
Months before Garth left the CPC, it was very obvious that eventually, he would be turfed. Months later, it happened. You see, based on observation, one can see where things could possibly lead.