As you know, VIA Rail threw in the towel Thursday, suspended passenger service on the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor, the most traveled and profitable in Canada, and messed up the lives of five thousand people. The OPP followed suit early Friday, activating a plan that had apparently been hatched a few days ago.
Officers shut down the country’s busiest highway at Belleville in the west and Napanee in the east. Travelers were forced to take a detour the length of many European countries just to regain the expressway. As I write this, word is streaming in of other disruptions, from the Nova Scotia-NB border, to downtown Vancouver.
There are school buses pushed onto rail lines. Bonfires in some roadways. The OPP are worried abut a confrontation later today in the town of Caledonia, south of Hamilton. Oh yeah, and there is a giant demonstration on Parliament Hill, which I have decided not to attend. Couldn’t drive there, anyway.
All of this is just the tip of the angry end of the Day of Action, called to protest the treatment of First Nations people by the federal government, and all us interlopers called Canadians. The aboriginal leaders behind it are trying to raise awareness of a host of issues, headed by land claims settlements, poverty among their people, the often-mentioned ‘Third World’ conditions on reserves, lack of clean drinking water and profound disparity in economic opportunity.
Please take a few minutes after you read this to watch the MPtv video of Chief Phil Fontain’s press briefing yesterday. He articulates his position well. For the record, Chief Fontaine is not an advocate of highway closures, rail blockades and the kind of behaviour which would get most non-native peoples’ asses in the slammer. I think he gets it. Piss the rest of us off, and there may well be less political will, not more.
But many of his colleagues obviously feel the Chief’s quiet anger is not enough. Leaders like Shawn Brant, leading a particularly strident groups of Mohawks in the Deseronto area, have being doing all they can to foment fear and strife. Mr. Brant, as you have seen, loves the camera and the microphone. He has alluded to the fact his guys have guns and are likely to use them. He’s warned today is just a taste of what’s to come. He is a thug, a hoodlum, a wannabe terrorist and is apparently wanted already by the cops. Not the kind of guy Chief Fontaine covets at a media availability with him. For that reason, I am sure he fears this could end up being the Day of Regret.
For the record, this country spends in the neighbourhood of $14 billion on our First Nations people, which number less than 1.1 million, 70% of whom live off reserves. The current budget contains a record amount for this file – since it is the spendiest budget in Canadian history. Several billion in the financial plan are for lump sum payments for those who suffered in residential schools, or are related to those victims.
Any way you cut it, this is a vast amount of money.
So the questions Chief Fontaine asks are legit. How can so many people be without fresh water or a meaningful job? Why is the suicide rate so off the scale among aboriginals? Why the despair and economic malaise? Where the hell is this money going?
I do not pretend to understand these issues as others do. Speaking with three of the four aboriginal MPs in Parliament over the last few weeks helped me a great deal, I have huge admiration for these guys, and the way they are fighting for their people within the system, with respect, authority and great result. I also respect Phil Fontaine, and view him as a voice of moderate reason, tinged with the kind of firebrand emotion required to get comfortable middle-class white people afraid enough to listen.
But more money hardly seems the answer. When you calculate the contribution made to First Nations people, and the fact few of them pay little in the way of taxes, money is obviously not equating progress. Maybe the Kelowna Accord was a step in the right direction, although it also involved more cash. Perhaps too few aboriginal citizens of Canada are involved in their own community politics. Maybe it’s too easy for a bunch of goofs and bullies like Shawn Brant to gain influence. Maybe the sensation-seeking MSM is reaching the zenith of irresponsibility by giving airtime to people like that. Or maybe VIA Rail and the OPP and the politicians on Parliament Hill are completely overreacting, doing some media grandstanding of their own.
Like I said, I’m no expert. Just one Canadian, and an MP, trying to understand where the real injustice lies. Like most of us, I’m so sympathetic to the cause. The way many of our citizens live is an international disgrace. But I’m also fed up with whoever it is who’s created a black hole for the money we spend on FN people. It’s not working. Leaders need to fix that. Or stop being leaders.
Enough today for all of us to regret.
To view the video, click here.
To view the video, click here.
133 comments ↓
http://www.mactas.ca/images//why%20canadians.pdf
Why Canadians
Should Support
Six Nations Land
Rights
How is it they can afford army fatigues and guns, get additional revenue from casinos and STILL be poor?
Fontaine has not come outright to tell the 40 protestors to stop. So, by his inaction, he does support it.
The Indians are aggravating Canadians and more and more, demands for audits are coming out. That’s what Parliament should be doing but we can thank the Liberals, Bloc and NDP for voting against it. Its our money folks.
Garth,
The blockades have accomplished nothing but alienation of the general populance.
These people have not done anything to the help the First Nations, and they are not going forget.
As to Phil Fontaine, his politically atuned public face cannot hide his eyes. They say to me he DOES support these types of actions because he is not strongly denouncing them.
Hoping all have a nice holiday weekend, and can avoid the imbeciles costing everyone, including themselves, tens of thousdans of dollars, probably millions in lost commerce and productivity…and or what?
As the Brant, there is an arrest warrant issued for him, he is already under a court order, and the O.P.P. should march in, like any other wanted criminal, and take him away. No waiting until midnight and his choice to surrender. That is such BS!
The courts and lawyers who have delayed the settlements, where they are actually viable and truthful, should be disbarred.
For the record: (from Wikipedia)
In November 2004, a UN panel described terrorism as any act: “intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act.”
Why wasn’t hwy 12 leading to RAMA CASINO not blocked?
Was it conveniently left open?
Garth,
The blockades have accomplished nothing but alienation of the general populance.
These people have not done anything to the help the First Nations, and they are not going forget.
As to Phil Fontaine, his politically atuned public face cannot hide his eyes. They say to me he DOES support these types of actions because he is not strongly denouncing them.
Hoping all have a nice holiday weekend, and can avoid the imbeciles costing everyone, including themselves, tens of thousands of dollars, probably millions in lost commerce and productivity…and or what?
As to Brant, there is an arrest warrant issued for him, he is already under a court order, and the O.P.P. should march in, like any other wanted criminal, and take him away. No waiting until midnight and his choice to surrender. That is such BS!
The courts and lawyers who have delayed the settlements, where they are actually viable and truthful, should be disbarred.
Oh, and regarding their bringing firearms to a ‘peaceful protest’ who the hell are they kidding? This is Canada, not the WIld, Wild West of the U.S., and certainly not the Middle East.
How long would their guns be tolerated on Parliament Hill? Would it not immediately result in armed take down by the police? Where is the difference between there and our Public roads and railroads?
Those bearing firearms should be arrested, their firarms confiscated, and tried for gun crimes…no exceptions.
Shawn Brant is an attention seeker that will hurt his people. Canadians will put up with the Day of Protest, just like they did for farmers when their tractors clogged up the 401, etc., but anything more would be a disaster.
Doesn’t Shawn Brant and the like realize that if they mess of Canada’s economy where won’t be money to help them out?
Brant is not an elected chief or native leader – he’s a trouble maker with a big ego leading a bunch of renogades who are small in the scheme of things but who could hurt the patience of Canadians for all of the first nations people – why do the first nations people themselves let Brant get away with this.
Garth raises good questions here. I think we are starting to see even some of the aboriginal community ask these same questions. At what point do they start asking for a hand up instead of a hand out?
More money will not solve the native problem? Well no duh! They want their land back to become more self-sufficient, to produce their own livelihoods. Ottawa produced the money pit knowing they couldn’t do audits. It’s about the Land, their Land.
Blocking the CN’s Toronto-Montreal line produced immediate monetary consequences, it worked. And because it worked suddenly Prentice has a ‘new’ plan to be announced in a few weeks.
How Canada treats it’s aboriginal population is testimony to how it treats all Vulnerable Groups without a voice. Like flushed _________.
I will be joining the peaceful demonstration in my hometown to show support. I will be wearing a bandana and huge dark glasses because I know my picture will be taken and god knows on what list I should appear on in this country.
The way many of our citizens live is an international disgrace. But I’m also fed up with whoever it is who’s created a black hole for the money we spend on FN people. It’s not working. Leaders need to fix that. Or stop being leaders
Garth I couldn’t agree more, as one who has spent most of my life on the front lines of this issue I along with many of my fellow community warriors have participated in countless studies,program workshops,policy development seminars,awareness execrcises,forums,and on and on….
For me this has been going on for more than thirty five years. Both myself and many of my fellow aboriginal advocates have proposed very specific solutions to bridging the gap between government program criteria and community capacity to meet that criteria. We have talked to all the Parties and have always been accepted politically but when the bureaucracy gets involved a disconnect happens. In my experienced view there are many aboriginal groups and bureaucrats that have a strong informal agreement to control the resources and the programs that can get to the community. Even the Assembly of First Nations will get millions of dollars this year from the Harper Party so it is no wonder Phil is on the news trying to keep a lid on the communities. I know for a fact that the federal government has spent over 2 billion dollars “negotiating” treaties in BC before they finally signed one. The lawyers are all happy but the people still suffer.
We have very specific solutions to offer and have offered them but because we are aboriginal community advocates and not government operatives or corporate spokespersons we have no voice at the decision table.
Because of the deteriorating social conditions on reserve and in the urban aboriginal communities I believe we have a quickly closing window to make meaningful change at the community level by effectively using the many resources being offered politically that are being mismanaged and abused and prevented from reaching the people we would all like to see helped the most.
Hello Garth and all, indeed, it’s time that when vulnerable groups like First Nations run into problems, we ought to give them a hand-up instead of a hand-out: handouts only make them even more dependent on the people who give them out (i.e. the Federal Government).
And hey, from what I learned in my Introductory Sociology class at MUN, with foreign aid (as an analogy), if it comes in the form of sending people food, clothing,etc.. they often end up running local businesses out of town: thereby enlargening the cycle of dependence and hence the need for more aid.
In my opionion, the same is true for Fire Nations people and other minority groups: to truly help them, give them more autonomy over their own lands and governance and focus aid on TRAINING people for jobs, internships, farming,etc.. That way, they can make their own food, clothing,etc… instead of relying on us to send it to them!
Wow – A non partisan article that I actually appreciated. Some reserves do very well and I don’t just mean economically. They have pride and dignity. Leadership often is the issue and throwing money at the problem seldom makes a difference.
For complete information on these protest, check out – http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com
By Captain George on 06.29.07 10:03 am
M-O-N-E-Y, and the First Nations do not want the Asian Gangs coming to attack them. God forbid!
Unfortunately, there are many peaceful, and sensible First nations people, but, as is the norm, the small ,militant group gets all the media attention.
Marie comments the First Nations want to become ’self-sufficient’? Really? Then drag your members into the Sweat Lodge, dry them out, put a serious stop to alcohol, drugs, and hallucenogenic plants being brought in, and cleanup your own act.
No non-First Nation person is forcing the booze and drugs down their throats…they choose to do it themselves. They choose to do the very things that defeat themselves. It is not a matter of more land. It is a matter of choice…and that choice is their’s to make.
Canada has spent billions helping them, and they tear apart their homes, support criminal activities in their own communities, and then blame everyone else? Sorry, I am not the cause of their self-inflicted problems, nor any member of my family.
Show me one successful community run by substance abusers! There are NONE!
You’re copping out Garth by pleading ignorance on the aboriginal issue that is costing Canadian taxpayers $14 billion annually.
What Canadians want to know is why are the aboriginals continually complaining to us when they get so much money. I for one have absolutely no sympathy for those aboriginals who are claiming they are being hard done by and I won’t go on a guilt trip over them either.
They have gotten about $200 billion over the last 40 years and they are still living in poverty? When that question is answered fully, then I will consider their demands. Some say that the chiefs of reserves live like kings while the rest get nothing. I don’t know if this is true but if it is then something is awfully wrong in the aboriginal communities.
In the meantime I don’t believe what Chief Fontaine is feeding us Canadian taxpayers. If they want to threaten Canada then that will be civil insurrection.
I give this post a failing grade. FN issues are handily ignored by all until they bring out guns or start up blockades after which everyone flips out. Can’t have it both ways, really. What do you expect them to do, fall over and die in droves? It’s been done. So has this “quiet anger” which has yielded so little. Time to try something else… or at least shake people up a bit.
Garth,
I’m no expert either, but I can see both sides of the issue.
I think you’re bang on in your post about the political dynamics going on here. When people no longer have anything to lose, they’ll turn to terrorism. There’s a lot of latent anger both on and off the reserves.
It doesn’t engender much good will on the non-aboriginal side of the equation either.
Not a good situation.
Here is what elected, authentic aboriginal leaders are saying about Brant and his actions:
Native leaders divided on use of rail, road blockades
Chief Patrick Brazeau, head of the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples: “In terms of Mr. Brant, we don’t know who he represents. He’s not an elected leader,” he said. “As far as we’re concerned, this individual does not represent the majority of the people that he claims to speak on behalf of.
Inuit opt out of aboriginal day of action
The organization that represents Canadian Inuit says it will not take part in Friday’s nationwide aboriginal day of action, opting instead to go through the political process to voice its views.
And just now Highway reopens after deal between police, native protesters
Checking CNN’s website for both the international and U.S. there is not ONE WORD of mention regarding the Day of Action in Canada. They do not even know we exist.
They, of course, lead with a story about terrorist bomb threats in London, England.
Remember this the next time you think integration with the U.S. is a good idea.
Remember, we would be in the same position as the First Nations are, but not due to our own actions, but lack of action to stop the NAU and SPP NOW!
Bill Muskoka said to me:
Marie comments the First Nations want to become ’self-sufficient’? Really? Then drag your members into the Sweat Lodge, dry them out, put a serious stop to alcohol, drugs, and hallucenogenic plants being brought in, and cleanup your own act.
___________________________________
My People? Clean up My Act? Your a blithering idiot. I am an Irish grandmother. All nations were invited to support the Aboriginal nation, that includes plump, senior grandmothers.
I used think the $10B was a lot too…until I found out that is for roughly 700,000 Indians which are in Canada. That means $14,285.71 per person, per year…
But I’m also fed up with whoever it is who’s created a black hole for the money we spend on FN people. It’s not working. Leaders need to fix that. Or stop being leaders. –Garth
This brought up a good question. Who did create this black hole? This article provides a good summary of who has been responsible for Indian Affairs throughout history. More research would be necessary to determine when the budgets began ballooning with little return given.
Show me one successful community run by substance abusers! There are NONE!
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.29.07 10:39 am
Ummm! The alleged sitting government (?) of Canada .
Their drug of choice is power and they are incapacitated and inebriated, by its affect .
They have no intention of honestly negotiating with the First
Nations .Ever.
Had there ever been a period of honest negotiation with the FN’s all of this would be avoided .
Insead they tore up the Kelowna Accord and refused to sign the document as well as the United Nations Declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples .
Phil Fontaine said Canada’s failure to support it will impede social justice and basic human rights.
Fontaine has also been lobbying for the approval of the Kelowna accord, a made-in-Canada document that would seek to improve the quality of life for First Nations, Métis and Inuit peoples.
Jim Prentice, federal minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, was questioned about the status of the UN declaration in the House of Commons.
He said the government needs more time to study the legislation.
“This is a complicated subject,” Prentice said. “It is before the government. We will continue to analyze the document that has been produced.”
First Nations policy consultant Russell Diabo believes the Tories are stalling until after the next election.
“It’s obviously still too controversial for the Stephen Harper government,” Diabo said.
“I think the Harper government is just buying time until they go back to the polls and try to get a majority. They are putting off contentious issues until they have a majority.”
So when white man speak with forked tongue this is the result .
Perhaps, the solution is integration, real integration? My experience shows that the people living on the reservations are of a very mixed lot. The two primary extremes pull for power against each other, just as every other group does, like we do politically and socially.
There are the Elders who want to live in 1890; those that want to moderize; the youth who are intimidated and accept what the Edlders say is ‘normal’ for them; there are youth who want far more out of their lives, to get education, skills, and become part of the larger Canadian society; and then there are the leaders, many very good, some nothing more than opportunistic charlatans like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson (who has done some good, but is usually most interested in his own image).
Many First Nations people are living off reservation and are integrated very succesfully. They, like millions of other Canadians who immigrated here from foreign nations, function within Canadian society, yet maintain their cultural identity.
No one other than the First Nations themselves can make those choices for their future. I have known both extremes, and the middle is the hardest pressed to survive because of the constant peer pressure.
There is racism on both sides as well…First Nations towards Aboriginals, such as the Metis, and and non-native Canadians, as from Canadians as well towards them. The year is 2007!
Their situation, at the end of the day, is no different than any other people endure. They must free themselves from their own restraints, be accountable to Canada as well as themselves, and allow those within their communities to leave yet be supported because they have a common bond. Then, perhaps, the youth will return with solutions they learn, and be given the opportunity to apply those solutions. A real leader knows their primary function is to prepare the leaders for tomorrow.
Could work…couldn’t hurt…Maybe they will think about these ideas?
Canada’s busiest highway reopened in eastern Ontario pn Friday after police reached a deal with Mohawk activists who blockaded a major rail line and roadway as part of a countrywide aboriginal day of action.
Mohawk activists erected barricades on a highway and the CN rail line near Deseronto. The protests also caused train service cancellations between Toronto and Ottawa and Toronto and Montreal.Mohawk activists erected barricades on a highway and the CN rail line near Deseronto. The protests also caused train service cancellations between Toronto and Ottawa and Toronto and Montreal.
(CBC)
The dissident group led by Mohawk activist Shawn Brant got an early start to the Assembly of First Nations protest day by setting up barricades late Thursday on Highway 2 and the CN rail line in Deseronto, about 50 kilometres west of Kingston.
Police shut down a 29-kilometre stretch of Highway 401, the major road link between Toronto and Montreal, at midnight over safety concerns before protesters had a chance to block it.
Traffic began flowing shortly after 11 a.m. ET, after more than 11 hours of rerouting travellers around the stretch between the towns of Belleville and Napanee, Ontario Provincial Police Const. Kim Guthrie told CBCNews.ca.
The barricades on Highway 2 and on the CN rail line remained.
Muskoka Bill,
And to top off the discussion, I just heard on TV that there are apr. 1,066,000 aboriginals in Canada and that apr. 70% live off the reserves.
Seems the Muskoka has one itty bity, absolutely meaningless protest going on in the Wahta First Nation, just west of Bala.
401 traffic flowing again
A county road near the popular Muskoka town of Bala was also blocked by demonstrators.
OPP Const. Peter Leon told the Starthat he expects the closing of County Road 38, Wahta, Muskoka, to last for some time. He said it’s the main route into Bala, so the closure could pose a problem to holiday traffic.
The road is blocked by members of the Wahta First Nations community.
No, actually Hwy 169 is the main route in and out of Bala. County Rd 38 connects to Hwy 400 through the Wahta Reservation. It is very poorly marked in both Bala and at t Hwy 400. Unless you know it is there you would never take it. This is hype IMHO!
The primary function of CR 38 is a route to and from the Wahta Res, and a place people can but cheap smokes avoiding the taxes. One can also reach Big Chute using this road, if you can find it. LOL
Here is the map link.
Just for the sake of truth!
If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
And to top off the discussion, I just heard on TV that there are apr. 1,066,000 aboriginals in Canada and that apr. 70% live off the reserves.
By Captain George on 06.29.07 12:49 pm
That number does not compute .
By 2017 FN’s will represent 4.1 per cent of Canadians .
By Captain George on 06.29.07 12:49 pm
Thanks for the figure. If you travel to Northern Ontario like North Bay, Sturgeon Falls, etc. you will find First Nations people working, and they are well integrated and speak French fluently.
In the NWT there are communities, more than reservations. The U.S. has actual reservations, which are governed by the BIA,(Bureau of Indian Affairs) which, if I recall correctly, is part of the Department of the Interior at the Federal level. There are many huge reservations in the southerwestern U.S. like the Navajo and Apache. They have the rights to the mineral resources, and a lot of assets, yet choose to live in hovels, instead of the homes that were built for them with taxpayer dollars. Not all, but many want that way of life. I say, fine, but do not come screaming at those who do not saying ‘It is your fault!’
There is also a serious attitude problem with following technical directions such as maintaining the taxpayer built potable water treatment facilities. Heck, we have that problem ourselves such as Walkerton. Yet, there is a difference between negligence, and diliberate sabotage of such facilities.
That was the case in northern Ontario just recently. Someone had cross-connected the sewage line to the potable water line. Then they ended up evacuating the entire reservation…probably permanently. Well, they are definitely off that reservation by necessity.
BTW, did you see that there is a NS group helping to preserve the lobster fisheries? Fishermen throw lobster back, nice to read some positive news, eh?
You must remember THE CULBERSTON TRACT, don’t you?
If you believe BRANT has it figured out, don’t throw away your dreamcatcher. Once again, the FEDS will be tossing our tax dollars away and promise transparency on land claims that only a clairvoyant can figure out.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=196e2951-c7a2-41cb-804b-6d8110bd9167
The aboriginal people of Canada are the only people recognized under the constitution of Canada. This constitutional recognition means a different type of relationship with the Crown as opposed to any other peoples living in Canada (Quebec didn’t sign).
aboriginal political groups like the AFN or Congress of Aboriginal People need to decide if they are program delivery agents on behalf of the government or are they political entities that are elected to represent the aboriginal people. The AFN is actually a non-profit corporation that has an executive elected by it’s shareholders, the elected Chiefs of Canada. The AFN Chief is not elected by the ballots of the aboriginal people of Canada. They just claim to represent because their shareholders are elected by the communities. All these groups are clamoring for program delivery money which they then re-profile to suit their own agenda. It would be like the Harper party hiring the Liberals or the NDP to deliver Heritage Programs or Housing on the governments’ behalf.
This is old news for those of us that have been around, but because of the large amount of money on the table many those in control both aboriginal and non-aboriginal don’t want to change the status quo.
Until the federal government honors and specifically defines its fiduciary obligations under the Constitution of Canada and then develops a one window Aboriginal Ministry this cacophony of agendas will continue to confuse and frustrate those seeking effective remediation for all that is promised in the treaties and the Constitution.
Ah yes , I remember the situation up by Hudson’s Bay.
It turns out the Reserve was funded and built in a flood plain on Hudson’s Bay, being a government recommendation in the first place! Then the Government had trouble trying to force a re-location for the betterment of all.
I’m definitely sympathetic to Native difficulties and I’m well aware of the fact that things aren’t progressing the way they should. I’m also aware of the fact that we signed a whole pile of treaties in good faith and then proceeded to ignore them, and have yet to even begin to make amends for most of those.
But things like highway closures and rail closures… Yeah, that just makes me angry. Sure it’s a petty and vindictive response, but the more I see crap like that, the less I care about the injustice our forefathers perpetrated. “We’ve made you suffer? Fine, now you’ve made us suffer. We’re even. Forget the settlements: the money that would have paid for your settlement was eaten up in your protests. Buh-bye now. Oh, and since you’ve been attacking us, we figure you’ve invalidated those treaties, time to start paying taxes.”
I’m not really at that point yet, but… yeah, these protests are not making me any more sensitive to the plight of our Native peoples.
Hi Garth;
Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of this problem. I wish the media would give us the straight goods on what the real problem is instead of giving Brant the platform he wants.
Last week, I attended an open meeting to help develop a plan for the local activities for National Day of Protest in London. I was one of the only non-aboriginal Canadians in the room and I was made welcome.
Some of the information that the natives wanted to share was really eye-opening. I had no idea that the local poverty rate of natives was so high. In that room every native family had been affected by the residential schools issue.
Not wanting to interfere in the process of the meeting, I waited til the end to make a comment. I suggested that the National Chief had done a good job of making non-aboriginal Canadians aware that this is our problem too. I offered that maybe if the natives could make the event a safe, family-friendly march and invite Canadians to participate at a rally in a park with speakers, then they would have more success than a more rebellious approach. I also told them about my husband’s initial reaction to the first stopping of trains event by Brant. My husband was the locomotive engineer driving the first passenger train that approached the barricade. Once the passengers were loaded onto school buses and were told by the service manager that they would be arriving in Ottawa about 2 hours late. After the groan, my husband stood up to say that if we’d solved the problem properly 100 years ago, then they wouldn’t have a minor 2 hour inconvenience so sit down and be quiet. There was a general cheering of support and no further problem.
I think this first event woke most of us up with a start. However civil disobedience can be carried too far and I think judging by the racial slurs posted here that Brant has had a negative effect on the average non-aboriginal Canadian.
Keep looking for answers. I believe Kelowna may have been a good start so let’s get back to Kelowna and start over.
Deb
Helfarch,
You are refuting CBC news info but I have attached an older report which is still BANG ON!
http://www.cmaj.ca/news/28_08_02.shtml
Ah yes , I remember the situation up by Hudson’s Bay.
It turns out the Reserve was funded and built in a flood plain on Hudson’s Bay, being a government recommendation in the first place! Then the Government had trouble trying to force a re-location for the betterment of all.
By Captain George on 06.29.07 1:54 pm
“Government Intelligence” the ultimate oxy-moron .
And how many other mistakes have been made since then ?
Hundreds ? Thousands ?
Little wonder the FN’s are fed up to the back teeth with all this nonsense .
And to top off the discussion, I just heard on TV that there are apr. 1,066,000 aboriginals in Canada and that apr. 70% live off the reserves.
By Captain George on 06.29.07 12:49 pm
That number does not compute .
By 2017 FN’s will represent 4.1 per cent of Canadians .
Okay, but the actual number is much higher as there are non-treaty FN’s that do not get counted .
A clarification of the 70% off reserve figure.
We learn so much on this blog it is frightening!
http://www.afn.ca/article.asp?id=2918
Shawn Brant is famous, or infamous, mostly back east. Not so much a common name on this coast.
Thanks to the link provided by Gary McHale on 06.29.07 10:37 am, I found a biography of Shawn Brant. A little background is a good thing a no one burst full grown on the scene, guns blazing, pissing everyone off for no good reason, as some would have you believe.
And part way down the page I came along this little snippet that warmed my heart towards him even more. Not that I condone trashing offices but I understand the anger and in the balance, what’s a few (probably blacked out) papers?
… In 1998, he joined forces with the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty (OCAP), mobilizing urban First Nations people into what he calls “a fighting force.â€In 2001, he trashed the office of then Ontario finance minister Jim Flaherty as part of OCAP’s Defeat Harris campaign. Brant remembers doing a radio interview then, telling a reporter via telephone that the Flaherty event was sparked by three suicides in four days by mothers in a northern native community. When the reporter suggested that would be “too hard to sell†in a short sound bite, Brant, usually media-friendly, hung up on her….
http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/updates/070428bio.html
Seems to me that Brant’s greatest fault would be impatience, with slow moving bureaucracy, with lies and liars, with broken promises, with attending too many funerals.
He want’s change now. Not some day down the road, maybe.
Personally, I find that admirable.
I would rather he do it unarmed but who know who Harper is sending up against him and the people that stand with him.
Ok little twit people. Be all offended at me. Go to it.
Geo
By Marc on 06.29.07 1:07 pm
Isn’t that the truth! LOL
As no one race has ever assimilated into the mythological Canadian culture (multiculturalism )
perhaps it is us the ” White Eyes” that should be learning from and imitating the FN’s.
Especially when it comes to the ecology of our nation .
Every community has Chinese . In Vancouver’s China town the street signs are in English and Mandarin, true bilingualism .
Not one sign is in English and Cree and yet they have equal numbers of people.
And to find out about McHale:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6333819608425231319&hl=enCA
http://www.theturtleislandnews.com/newspaper/2007/april/18/page7.htm
A clarification of the 70% off reserve figure.
We learn so much on this blog it is frightening!
http://www.afn.ca/article.asp?id=2918
By Captain George on 06.29.07 2:32 pm
What difference does it make if they are on or off a reserve ?
By Captain George on 06.29.07 1:33 pm
WOW! Now that was actual factual reality. And in the National Compost as well!
All other land can be readily traced back via the Land Registry Office.
The entire concept of ’secret files’ needs to be challenged in the SCoC.
So much for ‘open and transparent government’ by both the Liberals and the CPC.
My guess would be a family transfer, and I seriously doubt that would have been recorded with the British, nor would have it needed to be, as the land was, in effect, an inheritence, and from the article, a well deserved one for services rendered on behalf of Canada.
Maybe the Mohawks should take a little walk across the border and try the Brant tactics in the States? Afterall, that is where they came from.
Hmmmm…I think our former MP, Andy Mitchell was the mInister in charge of NAIA at that time?
Ok little twit people. Be all offended at me. Go to it.
Geo
By Georgine on 06.29.07 2:33 pm
Nice comment. So, anyone who disagrees with you is a twit.
By Captain George on 06.29.07 2:32 pm
Ah yes…the use of semantics by politicians, in this case by AFN politicos. My, my what a surprise. I guess Inuit and Metis are not recognized by the AFN?
Bill M said:
Canada has spent billions helping them, and they tear apart their homes, support criminal activities in their own communities, and then blame everyone else? Sorry, I am not the cause of their self-inflicted problems, nor any member of my family.
*********************
Bill, What the hell are you talking about? It’s not like you to go off on great sweeping generalizations.
An example of what can be achieved:
The Sechelt Nation, a division of the Coast Salish family of First Nations, originally occupied the southern portion of what is now known as the Sunshine Coast of BC.
At the time of contact with Europeans, the Shishalh (Sechelt people) were a populous and peaceful people occupying some 80 scattered village sites. Estimates of original population range from 5,000 to 20,000, but by the time of the first official census in 1881, the Sechelt population had plunged to 167, mainly due to introduced diseases (smallpox, etc.). In this century, the band staged a remarkable comeback.
Today the Sechelt are one of Canada’s most progressive First Nations groups, running a number of successful businesses. In 1986 the passage of Bill C-93 made the Sechelt Indian Band the first in Canada to achieve self-government. The band now numbers more than 1,000 members, about half of whom live on band lands.
***************
Bill, You should visit. You can’t tell where the band businesses leave off and the town of Sechelt starts up. The beautiful Long House is a clue were is starts tho. I attended classes in the adjacent buildings as the college ran a satellite campus there.
Geo
By Keith Phibbs on 06.29.07 2:48 pm
Mr. Phibbs. I didn’t see Gary McHale at all in that video. As well, you posted a link to an Indian paper, not a very reliable source there either.
DIGRESSION AND ANOTHER POSSIBLE “DAY OF REGRET” Say it ain’t so!
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/June2007/29/c2822.html
Helfarch,
They have no intention of honestly negotiating with the First
Nations .Ever.
Had there ever been a period of honest negotiation with the FN’s all of this would be avoided .
Insead they tore up the Kelowna Accord and refused to sign the document as well as the United Nations Declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples .
Phil Fontaine said Canada’s failure to support it will impede social justice and basic human rights.
The Kelowna Accord was the same ‘lets pour more money at an issue’ that Liberals did during 13 years in power. There was no accountability. In fact, they even poured more money at that!
“With respect to relationships and accountability, $170 million was committed for supporting Aboriginal organizations’ ability to work with governments, developing accountability practices, and engaging on land claim and self-government policies. Specific timelines were not set for this theme.”
From the Library of Parliament
By Georgine on 06.29.07 2:33 pm
Nice comment. So, anyone who disagrees with you is a twit.
By Sean P. Hogan on 06.29.07 3:09 pm
Whatsamatta Hogan jealous that you are now not alone ?
Georgine,
While I know and appreciate there are many aboriginal success stories, I also have seen what I spoke of first hand.
It infuriates me to think of the thousands of people who would love to have the assistance that has been given to the miscreants, have a home, have an opportunity to make life quite comfortable, and they get zilch!
I have always lived by the principle of being thankful for what you have, taking care of it to the very best of my ability, and certainly not willfully destroying something others have given to me out of caring kindness.
It is called gratitude. The NWT Housing Corp., as a prime example, builds a better home than most are built in Ontario. They are so efficient the U.S. government buys homes from them for Alaska. They are a Crown Corporation BTW!
ALL of the story needs to be told, not just the parts that favour a position, and that is happening here in this topic. Where are the First Nation’s spokespersons? I want to hear how they plan to solve their problems which are caused solely by their own people’s choices. I want to hear them calim responsibility publically, and then we can all work together. Let’s insist on full disclosure from all sides with the fingers pointing at the person, not others.
First, in order to find the problems, audits need to be done – right down to each and every band. When over 10,000 $ are spent on each and every status Indian (10+ Billion / 1 Million) and many reserve Indians live in 3rd world conditions, red flags should be raised. But, unfortunately, most of our politicians do not support these audits – hence promoting sinking buckets of money and paying lip service to the native cause.
Secondly, if one chooses not to integrate into the greater society and chooses to live in remote areas, then, one must accept one’s decision (warts and all).
Thirdly, the Indian Act should be scrapped (it is basically aglorified aparthied).
Garth,
Don’t worry, the Conservative government under Harper will fix the problem.
It was so neglected under the liberals.
Just throwing money around. Waste..
I look forward to a good solution.
Won’t that be great Garth?
Are you going to work very hard this weekend? I hope so.
The Harper CONservative govenmemt has been in power for 18 months and they have done nothing to solve the aboriginal problem. They cancelled Kelowna and they are not trusted by the aboriginals.
A Dion Liberal governemt is needed fast to solve this problem cause CONservatives have failed. I hope Canadains realize this too.
By Sean P. Hogan on 06.29.07 3:09 pm
I just knew you would pipe up first!
Unfortunately not very much is going to change until the Indian Act is repealed and replaced with an agreement that the natives have full and I mean full participation and development of and which more represents the 21st century.
The second thing is to get rid of Indian Affairs Department. That Department is a bottomless pit where billions go in put a small portion only gets to the people it is intended to help.
There must be full accountability in the complete system from the very top right down to the each reserve leadership.
Each reserve must be empowered so that they have the ability to run their reserves according to good government and their own rules.
Each and very native member must be given the same rights as all other Canadians and that is one the reasons why the Indian Act must be abolished.
Finally. everyone must respect our native brethren as would like to be respected and as they should be respected as being the first nations that they are..
Bruce wrote
>A Dion Liberal government is needed fast >to solve this problem cause CONservatives >have failed. I hope Canadians realize >this too.
The Liberals governments have been in power for 100 years over the last 130 years and have not solved this problem and a Dion government will be no better.
Problem as I see it is the church in all their magnanimous glory took thousands of natives and tried to beat their culture out of them .
Going so far as whipping them if they spoke their native dialect .
Add to that untold counts of sexual abuse and what you have is an entire race of people psychologically damaged.
Some beyond repair .
Trust the white man ?
How, when all they see are whips and acts of bestial behaviour from the white man .
Acting out by using and becoming addictive to drugs and alcohol is merely a coping mechanism .
A cry in the wilderness for respect and understanding .
Make no mistake we,the white man, are responsible whether or not you are man enough to admit it .
But more money hardly seems the answer. When you calculate the contribution made to First Nations people, and the fact few of them pay little in the way of taxes, money is obviously not equating progress. Maybe the Kelowna Accord was a step in the right direction, although it also involved more cash. – Garth
Does this mean you are opposed to Kelowna until we have full accountability?
The Liberals governments have been in power for 100 years over the last 130 years and have not solved this problem and a Dion government will be no better.
By Van on 06.29.07 5:25 pm
And your proof is where ?
Mr. Chretien was Native Affairs Minister and he was widely respected by the FN’s.
He did a lot for the people .
Chretien’s son Micehele is a native .
A Dion Liberal governemt is needed fast to solve this problem cause CONservatives have failed. I hope Canadains realize this too.
By Bruce on 06.29.07 5:08 pm
And of course the native issues only problems started after Feb 2006 – right Bruce? Of course, OKA and Ipperwash and Kashechewan never happened?
Bruce – surely, you are more intelligent than this.
Throwing more money at the Indian file will not resolve anything, if we don’t even know if the 10+ Billion $ per year(for you that’s over 10,000 times 1 million) has been used wisely or has been squandered by the Native “leaders”. Seems to me that there’s a really serious problem with waste.
Excellent post Garth!!
All governments are guilty of inaction, as are many of the Band leaders.
The days of Injuns and White folks has long passed for the majority of people in North America.
Time to do something about the issues, and stop blaming political parties. that accomplish ziltch, and you all know it!
Bill M,
Thanks for the great posts on today’s topic. As usual, you understand and show, there is more than one version of truth of an issue.
GP
For you Sean,
http://garymchale.blogspot.com/
Bill M,
Thanks for the great posts on today’s topic. As usual, you understand and show, there is more than one version of truth of an issue.
GP
By Grammar Purist on 06.29.07 6:15 pm
Oh,Blah,blah,blah,blah ,blah .
Even if he is totally wrong on all counts .
Before anything meaningful happens the government should apologize for the treatment of FN’s throughout history .
They apologized to everyone else for past behaviour .
Chinese,Japanese, Ukrainians and Arabs .
The only ones they didn’t apologize to were the Americans for burning the White House during the war of 1812 .
All negotiations should begin with a healing circle and run along those
lines .
The damage is endemic and profound .
Healing must be first and foremost .
All the money in the world cannot mend a broken spirit .
Bill M,
Thanks for the great posts on today’s topic. As usual, you understand and show, there is more than one version of truth of an issue.
GP
What a little sycophant you are .
Whatever empathy I had for The First Nations has vanished over the last 15 months with the Caledonia occupation by masked and armed thugs who call themselves Warriors.I’ve often wondered where all the money dished out goes.Buracracy wasts quite a bit I’m sure but what about the rest of it?There seems to be no accountability on either party the Natives and the government.As for the continuing protests to date,they only serve to alianate more Canadians like me.The OPP has shown much leniancy to some of these armed thugs.Heck there an arrest warrant out for one of them and here he is today in plain view blocking a major Hwy. and telling us that he is armed.Perhaps if Harper and his happy gang had not reneged on the Kelowna accord(Atlantic anyone?)todays actions might not have been necessary.If the Natives continue to be led by some armed American hotheads they will regress and completely alianate ay support they have left.
Canada and the Aboriginal people can’t continue to back into the future trying to reconcile the past.
Lets set up an effective process to deal with the outstanding issues and land claims and then move forward to establishing ownership and economic development through a level playing field. That is the way to set it right once and for all.
Garth, I’ve been too busy today, very little time in the house, but I must say I dropped in now before continuing my day. What a thoughtful post! You were bang on with this statement; Where the hell is this money going?
You don’t have to be ‘in the know’ or even any kind of expert on this subject to know that the money does not flow to services for the people. Nadda. So, where is it?
PMPM’s accord was very flawed in the fact it still called for zero accountability in all that money. No checks, balances at all let alone an audit.
Garth, I can understand that the natives of this country were treated very badly many years ago. But I also understand that much of this land was sold fair & square, sure, some of it was through bad deals, but hey, I know a few relatives of mine who made bad deals years ago and I don’t feel compelled to go after the lost revenue. A deal is a deal. I also think the $14 billion plus a year more than pays the debt, probably a million times over by now.
Anyway, our natives enjoy the largess of this beautiful country we ALL have built. It is time they join us and start working toward a better Canada instead of tearing it down.
I could go on…but I am short on time here. Enjoyed the honesty in your thread. Have a good evening. L
Mr. Chretien was Native Affairs Minister and he was widely respected by the FN’s.
He did a lot for the people .
Chretien’s son Micehele is a native .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 5:59 pm
So why was there a deteriation over the last decade?
ALL of the story needs to be told, not just the parts that favour a position, and that is happening here in this topic. Where are the First Nation’s spokespersons? I want to hear how they plan to solve their problems which are caused solely by their own people’s choices. I want to hear them calim responsibility publically, and then we can all work together. Let’s insist on full disclosure from all sides with the fingers pointing at the person, not others.
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.29.07 4:09 pm
Ok, this sounds more like the Bill I know and love. And this is more of a plan that would work.
I’ve been for the abolishment of the Dept. of Indian Affairs as it stands for over 20 years and since then I’ve watched it grow into an even more many tentacled beast. Back then 2 of every $3 (I think) was going into the running of it, not to the natives. And on the other side…well they aren’t going to bite the hand that feeds them. (Some Chiefs, Special Interests) In the mean time thousands are falling between the cracks and all those who profess to not have a racist bone in their bodies look the other way, say nothing, and do little.
There has to be a better way Bill. For all those thousands and thousands and thousands that have fallen between the cracks for generations. Before another generation does.
I don’t think blockades will do it. Nor will Harper’s new scheme/scam. Nor will new/old money thrown at it. I do know that continuing on like this will not accomplish anything but more grief.
I dl’d the UN’s declaration on indigenous peoples. Harper’s Party must be some kind of double stupid if they must take this long to study it. It is pretty clear. And a good place to start from.
Geo
Finally. everyone must respect our native brethren as would like to be respected and as they should be respected as being the first nations that they are..
By Van on 06.29.07 5:20 pm
Van,
Yes! All that you said, Yes!
Geo
By Grammar Purist on 06.29.07 6:15 pm
Thank you for the kind comment!
Even if he is totally wrong on all counts .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 6:30 pm
And you are referring to moi? GP made a compliment, yet you seem to have a need to attack just because he made a comment? Think about that please!
Helfarch Mawrth wrote
>And your proof is where ?
Go to a northern Alberta , Sask or Man. reserve and have a look for yourself.
(There are others but I am only familiar with some of the reserves in these provinces.) You will see that very little has been achieved over the last 130 years and that includes a 100 years of Liberal rule. That my friend is a fact.
>Mr. Chretien was Native Affairs >Minister and he was widely respected by >the FN’s.
So is the current minister. So what is your point.
>He did a lot for the people .
>Chretien’s son Micehele is a native .
Woopie ding his son is a native. So what. The question remains.What exactly did he do for the FN people? He may have had good intentions, but what did his intentions accomplish?
Did he cure the high teen suicide rate? Did he improve the health care?
Did he improve the High school native graduation rate?
Did he improve housing?
He also was PM for at least ten years and what did he accomplish in that time? Very little if anything. That’s what he did..
The fact is that he didn’t do very much at all or we wouldn’t be where we are today and there also wouldn’t be a national day of protest now would there.
The fact is that no government Liberal or Conservative has done very much for FNs, the reserves they live on nor the off reserve natives. We have failed and the sooner we admit to that fact the sooner admit that fact the better.
So lets cut the political partisan bias bullshit and start addressing the issue as we should have from the beginning.
Make no mistake we,the white man, are responsible whether or not you are man enough to admit it
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 5:33 pm
Maybe you are White man, but I am not, and neither are any of my family members. If you wish to do penance, then do so, but do not group all White people with yourself.
As to the Church, you bet your arse they are guilty. Let us include the French Huegonauts, Jews, Muslims, Arabs, all of South America,, the Celts, Druids, and any other group that dared to challenged their self-serving BS! Be angry at those who caused the problem, not the innocents.
Let us not forget that a mere 100 years ago Darwin was used to justify allowing people to die based on Natural Selection and Evolution. He was commissioned by Queen Victoria to rid the welfare roles of the ‘undesirables.’
Let is not forget the teachings that the Church fostered of racial inferiority, sexual superiority of men, religious intolerance, wanton murder and genocide.
It is still going on today with the Vatican’s position on condoms, birth control, AIDS, and behind it all is the assinine belief that Rome was great…No it was Barabaric, the true Barbarians that molested the world for their own joy and materialism. Know history, not merely opinion, not merely a collective guilt trip.
Do not be an apologist, but part of the real solution!
By Keith Phibbs on 06.29.07 6:24 pm
Thanks for that link. Now we know who can be cast in the next Dune as Baron von Harkonan! That slab of slob will be perfect!
The only ones they didn’t apologize to were the Americans for burning the White House during the war of 1812.
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 6:41 pm
After the Americans attacked and burned what major Canadian city? Sheesh! Have you been drinking or is your real self coming out today?
So lets cut the political partisan bias bullshit and start addressing the issue as we should have from the beginning.
By Van on 06.29.07 7:45 pm
Have you noticed that this one issue has brought many together, and separated others? This is real progress well seasoned with honesty.
I appreciate what youn said, and it is correct.
I dl’d the UN’s declaration on indigenous peoples.
By Georgine on 06.29.07 7:16 pm
I have the actual published report from back about ‘98-’99. I read it when I need to go to sleep. All facts and figures and no damn solutions. You could get more out of attending an AA meeting where the beverage is alcoholic. LOL
Too many intellectuals, not enough knowledgeable philosophers. History, as the west knows it, is written from the politcal-economic perspective. Real history is written from the socio-economic perspective…the ‘why’ things happened. therein, lie the answers to the problems we deal with today.
I suggest reading Max DiMont’s excellent book ‘Jews, God, and History’ for an example of the ‘why’s’ of history, not the usual ‘this arse did this and was crowned idiot of the century.’
Then for relaxation pick up and read Leo Rosten’s great book ‘The Joys of Yiddish’ for an insight into how people take the worst situation and find humour in it! A much needed ability for all people who have suffered oppression, and that includes everyone at some time in history.
Oi vay! LOL!
Take it from the Captain.
The First Nations people are a great people. They were here first. You would feel the same way if YOU were here first. There will always be embarrassing extremists and it doesn’t matter what group you represent and try to control be it by blood or religion.
It is now time to conclude outstanding land claim issues and set the law with respect to ancient burial grounds as well. Developers are stampeding ahead with all the right permits except for sensitive reclamation sites and they know it, so have laws changed to deal with that sensitive issue first and we won’t have half the expensive problems that surface later. Hire Eddie Greespan and let’s get serious!
I used think the $10B was a lot too…until I found out that is for roughly 700,000 Indians which are in Canada. That means $14,285.71 per person, per year…
By Tim N on 06.29.07 12:16 pm
‘Scuse me Tim. But it’s $14 billion, and for 700,000 natives that’s $20,000 for every man, woman and child. For a family of 6, that would be a yearly income of $120,000. Family of 4, $80,000. etc. etc. Tax free. Oh, and let’s also consider the free post sec. educations, with living allowances so the youngsters do not have to work for any education. Then there’s the tax free status on everything they buy…then there’s welfare (over and above the $14 billion), then there’s free housing (over and above the $14 billion), free drugs, utilities…shall I go on? Now, let’s do some real figuring here…they want all this…and the land to!
Many cultures were abused at one time or another, yet others like the English orphans shipped to Canada got on with it and helped build this country to what it is. Look at the Chinese rounded up during the war and the abuses there, yet they sucked it up and worked like hell to help build this country.
For me the bullshit of; ‘oh, some of us were abused 100 years ago, so that’s why my 8 year old huffs gas under the house and I can’t stay sober for 5 minutes’ crap doesn’t cut it.
Enough is enough. But, that’s just my opinion.
Like has been pointed out, a few reserves took matters into their own hands and cleaned up their act to become prosperous and add something to this world.
There ya have it. L
Some venting going on here!
However, same problems exist in the heart of Vancouver, Toronto, Portage and Main and so on. I am talking about the part of today’s society that cannot cope and are found on our streets. This is not an Aboriginal problem relative to all Canadians having a hard time. If the stats show apr. 70% living off reserve, it confirms assimilation in Canadian Society. I fear given recent events the hardships of the First Nations people fall under the microscope again. Bottom line is we can all work together and be proud of our origins and even promote same for our economic benefit in our vast land. It is time to for our governments to perhaps take the lead in creating employment in areas that cannot normally sustain a viable business. Give me a good reason why we can’t have Federal Prisons built and located in the far north to provide employment to our First Nations people and eliminate the overcrowding in city core prisons.
Lease – here’s the part from the G&M that talked abuot the money…it’s interesting:
Robin Steel, M’Chigeeng: National Chief Fontaine, it is obvious that the current government has only one speaking line for First Nations issues: $10 billion. Unfortunately, most Canadians seem to have bought into that because it is a staggering amount of money.
Could you explain to us how much of that money really goes to communities?
Phil Fontaine: Boozhoo, Robin. Thanks for the question.
I appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight. The reality is this number is not correct.
Minister Prentice himself admitted that only $5.2 billion actually goes to communities and other organizations.
This does not go solely to First Nations, but based on departmental numbers, we estimate that our communities receive about 82% of that funding. So, communities receive about $4.2 Billion in funding. They also get another $1.6 to $1.7 billion in services from Health Canada and other departments.
I want to make it clear that this money is for the basic government services, including housing, healthcare and education.
But that is not money that First Nations have control over.
And this is important, because the implication of throwing around these figures is that it is misspent or squandered somehow.
So, let me repeat that our communities control only about $4.2 billion and we have more than 763,000 citizens for whom we are responsible. Our Chiefs are managing for our people at a poverty level and these figures — which Indian Affairs can confirm — demonstrate that.
The more important fact to note is that while funding for these same services in the provinces and territories have increased at rates as high as 10 per cent, our funding has been capped at 2 per cent for the past 10 years. Yet our populations have been growing at a faster rate than any other segment of the Canadian population.
If you want to talk big numbers, the three levels of government in this country spend more than $500 billion on services for other Canadians.
Earlier this evening I telephoned Kingston to check the progress of an old and dear friend. A distraught wife informed me her husband’s heart valve replacement surgery, scheduled for this morning had been postponed till tuesday next. The OR nurses were late for duty because they were unable to cross an FN blockade. Details are sketchy but it seems the braves eventually allowed them to pass, well after mid morning. Hopefully my friend will survive a long weekend of discomfort. No doubt there are many similar stories to be told.
Not more than five years ago, my wife and I turned off hwy 401 and into Deseronto, and then onto the reservation where RCAF Station Deseronto was once located, during the last big one. I was saddened to see broken windows and the disrepair of buildings.
As we were leaving, a group of Indians approached and with civility questioned our presence on the reservation. I apologized for trespassing and explained that my visit was nostalgic. One last look, as it were. After a short but pleasant conversation, we parted amicably.
I wonder if today, these same men are still well disposed towards an old man.
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.29.07 8:31 pm
Joys of yiddish? Comom Bill cut me some slack here. As for oppression, yeah, history is full of sob stories, my family has a pile of them going back generations. Not doing so bad lately tho.
What we are talking about now, is the here and now. Ongoing as it has been for so long that some folks seem to think this is how it should be. Well, it shouldn’t.
Maybe you know a lot of native drunks but I know a hell of a lot more white guys who should lay off the bottle. And that’s off three, no four reserves.
Why are you so adamant about this Bill? You know the money isn’t going to them. You know the right services aren’t making it to them. You know that one size does not fit all right across the country. So why so stubborn?
Geo
Angry Lease said: ‘Scuse me Tim. But it’s $14 billion
Don’t forget, don’t forget… you have to actually fund Indian Affairs and all it’s assorted bits, and there are a lot of bits out of that sum too.
It used to be that $1 out of every $3 actually went to the Bands.
I live near a couple of reserves, so I have been able to make some observations about natives. Even though there is a huge shortage of workers in this locality, most of the natives do not work. They tend to let their houses fall into disrepair, and they do the same with their bodies. Many of them are grossly obese, and yet I see them consuming junk food and alcohol. It is obvious to anyone who opens their eyes that the problems these people have are the result of one generation after another living off handouts. It’s time to turn off the money tap. Natives should have to work for a living, just like the rest of us.
The First Nations people are a great people. They were here first. You would feel the same way if YOU were here first. ”
:
By Captain George on 06.29.07 8:32 pm
Oh?
Now would that be the Seneca or the Huron. According to history the Seneca tribes wiped out the Huron tribes. It appears that many people want to revise history and make it more romantic. However, the Canadian Native population were not all peace loving people, either.
Personally, it is not me to blame for the lack of elder and parental leaderships on their reserves or their communities. You have a child, you are responsible to ensure that child is reared and looked after. If that means you need to move off the reserve, so that your child is away from bad influences, you do it. That may mean that you will need work very hard to provide a living – so be it. Many other comers to Canada did just that!
By Tim N on 06.29.07 11:24 pm
Hey Tim, Fontaine should take his shoes and socks off…just google ‘Canada Native Funding’…sit back for a long read. L
Tim;
Within the federal government, responsibility for Aboriginal programming is shared among 34 departments and agencies with total planned spending of $9.1 billion (2005–06). The bulk of planned spending is directed towards provincial or municipal type services on reserve, such as social services, education, healthcare, infrastructure and housing. This is nondiscretionary funding and is generally linked to providing services at levels comparable to provincial and territorial regimes.
To fund services on reserve, INAC transfers about $5.5 billion annually to Aboriginal recipients. That represents approximately 90% of all INAC financial resources. The funds are transferred to some 1200 entities, including about 640 First Nations and Aboriginal organizations.
Despite the on-going nature of the vast majority of INAC transfers, these programs are funded primarily on an annual basis.
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/rpp/0708/INAC-AINC/inac-ainc01_e.asp#s1.5
So Tim, to get the true picture Add: $9.1 & 5.5 = 14.6 billion dollars.
Mr. Fontaine is telling one part of the story. 9.1 is direct government programing for Natives, the other 5.5 is what the Native leaders get directly do do as they please.
Even so, the 9.1 is not getting through, the programs are not running properly, obviously.
There is your $14.6 billion. Seems the leaders want more cash in hand that is TOTALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR.
Now, shall we also look at what the provinces kick in? L
“For complete information on these protest, check out – http://www.blahblahblah.com”
By Gary McHale on 06.29.07 10:37 am
HEADS UP !
Be aware that if anyone wants to contact Gary McHale, he tapes phone calls and personal conversations and has a habit of posting what you might say on message boards or his website
So why so stubborn?
Geo
By Georgine on 06.29.07 11:46 pm
Because, I have worked with such people, know the totally hopeless outcome of their lives, and firmly believe that all the ‘feel sorry’ we can give only reinforces their inappropriate, self-destructive behaviour.
I could tell you many stories of the cause and effect scenario. The worst of any society get an inordinate amount of attention, while the ones working the hardest get ignored.
Stop re-inforcing their behaviour by blaming everyone else for their choices.
Tough Love produces Good Results.
Here is a thought, albeit harsh as it can get, but what would happen if ALL the funding were cut-off? What if one day they woke up and found they had all they have been demanding?
And another…Say the settlers that made Canada into a nation all just simply packed up and left. We take everything we have brought with us, technology, medicine, economics, weapons, snowmobiles, everything and said…’Here, the land is yours…do as you please!’ What would be the outcome?
Let’s turn the clock back 400 years and see what happens? I suspect EXTINCTION!
Regarding your statement Joys of yiddish? Comom Bill cut me some slack here. As for oppression, yeah, history is full of sob stories, my family has a pile of them going back generations.
Yes, and so does mine, and every other family. Persecution knows no boundaries, race, religion, of gender. There have always been oppressive periods through which all peoples have passed. I mentioned the book, because from a sense of humour comes the strength to have a sense of hope.
Show me a people without humour and I will show you a people who are already dead.
Seems the leaders want more cash in hand that is TOTALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR.
Now, shall we also look at what the provinces kick in? L
By Leasa on 06.30.07 7:47 am
I’m not disputing that there must be more accoutability – but even your posts indicates taht this funding (the 14+ B is not just direct “here’s the cash, do what you want” funding. Alot of the funds are wasted in government (i.e. gov’t of Canada) beaurocracy. i.e. that 9.1 B DIRECT funding means that the natives don’t touch it. If the programs aren’t working it’s our (government’s) fault – not theirs.
IMO the biggest problem is that we seem to attacking the symptoms – which is a Conservative mainstay – instead of dealing with the actual root causes of the problems. The problem is an ineffective and ineffiecent Indian Affairs department. The problem is an ineffective treaty dispute system, and the problem is a government unwillingness to deal with the issues.
On the other side, natives have to realize that they will not get everything that they want, straight cash hand-outs will not solve their problems, and it’s time to let go of the past (which has been over romaticized) and move forward into the 21st century.
Drop the rhetoric, and deal with the problems. However, given that our governments (present and past) and thiers would much rather deal with rhetoric, we will won’t be seeing an end to the problem any time soon.
Leasa, Phil Fontaine’s predecessor had a very nice $500,000 home in Yellowknife.
Just a slight difference from the homes in places like Rae Edso, Lutsel K’e (Snowdrift), Dettah communities, etc..
Here is a good site to read Windspeaker-1999, and I find it interesting that my statement is the same as Phil Fountain’s
When you blame someone else for your troubles, he said, they have control.
to get the true picture Add: $9.1 & 5.5 = 14.6 billion dollars.
Mr. Fontaine is telling one part of the story. 9.1 is direct government programing for Natives, the other 5.5 is what the Native leaders get directly do do as they please.
Even so, the 9.1 is not getting through, the programs are not running properly, obviously.
There is your $14.6 billion. Seems the leaders want more cash in hand that is TOTALLY UNACCOUNTED FOR.
Now, shall we also look at what the provinces kick in? L
By Leasa on 06.30.07 7:47 am
So can we say that the aboriginal problem is due to inefficient federal government departments, unaccountable money in the hands of band chiefs, poorly organized native bands in remote locations, and the attempt to blackmail Canadians with a guilt trip over the plight of aboriginals who cannot be integrated or assimilated into Canadian society?
Cathy sputtered:
If that means you need to move off the reserve, so that your child is away from bad influences, you do it.
OMG! Parenting 101 according to Cathy. Oh Great Pastafarian Save me now!
That statement is so stupid on so many levels Cathy I don’t know where to start, so I won’t bother.
ROTFLMAO!
Canadians blew up the Fort Bill not Americans .
This was an example of how stupid this government is in apologizing to all and sundry and leaving out the one race they should be, apologizing to .
They blew up their powder store and killed over 25,invaders .
I know my Canadian history .
And if you expect me to apologize to idiot-stick,Purist . Don’t hold your breath .
And your position on FN’s is still without substance or merit .
Could care less how many Natives you know or worked for you are blinded by your own position in society and compare everything they do and have to your precious life .That is just sad .
No empathy at all .
IMO the biggest problem is that we seem to attacking the symptoms.
By Tim N on 06.30.07 10:19 am
Always, Tim, always…seldom is anyone willing to deal with the actual causation…because that requires action, monitoring, and is not too good for campaign promises because action requires results…measurable results.
Bill M said:
Show me a people without humour and I will show you a people who are already dead.
True true:)
Did you hear the one about…. later, later:)
We’ll never know if 400 years ago not a boat landed, not a european popped his head in, what would have happened. You may be right, but maybe no.
Bill, collectively we created this mess. Collectively we have to find a way out of it. Crying about what went before won’t do it. Throwing money at it won’t do it.
But like the assorted “Wars” (terror, poverty, drugs etc) it’s become it’s own self feeding monster. Both sides are stake-holders. Did I say both sides? Hell, there are so many sides feeding at this trough that it’s probably impossible to sort out.
And the ones who ultimately pay, with their lives and their futures, get screwed.
Like those big eyed starving kids with flies all over them on guilt tv with the well-fed white celebrity saying “give, give generously”. Oh yeah, they never hold the kid with the flies, you notice that?
I don’t believe it’s the peoples fault. They are only going to react badly, poorly as they know how. If their whole life is one of handouts and of little expectations, well why should that change?
If you are dealing with a drunk, the odds are even worse. Once a drunk, almost always and forever a drunk. Yes I know there are exceptions to every rule but they are far and few between.
I have no trouble with the tough love approach. But it still has to be tempered with respect and dignity. We are talking about a people, not a snot nosed teenager.
And I think what a lot of people forget is that FN in the Ottawa area are different from FN in northern Ontario are different for FN in Alberta are different in southern BC are different from Vancouver Island etc etc. Really they have to be thought of in many ways as different small countries. One size does not fit all. One communities problems does not necessarily plague anothers.
I’m amazed at the anger and the passion that flared up these past few days. But so little in the way of real solutions. Tho some have been offered, well one has been offered:
The most popular has been cut off all their money (my tax dollars!) because:
~They rip up floors for firewood( maybe it was cold and there was nothing else to burn)
~They drink it, or spend it on drugs (not verbatim)
~The leaders want more cash to live high off the hog and to hell with the people
~They don’t want to work, why would they when everything is paid for.
~They like to live in hovels (implied)
~They are lazy
~They are bad parents
I could go on. But nice set of opinions for a group who mostly professes to respect the FN peoples of Canada.
It’s crazy making Bill. Reminds me much of the old handbills and stories about the Jews I’ve read (translated) and the rise of Nazi Germany. The same snidely superior tone.
Make life impossible for a people for generations and then blame them for it. When do we just wipe them out?
Canadians blew up the Fort Bill not Americans .
This was an example of how stupid this government is in apologizing to all and sundry and leaving out the one race they should be, apologizing to .
They blew up their powder store and killed over 25,invaders .
I know my Canadian history .
And if you expect me to apologize to idiot-stick,Purist . Don’t hold your breath .
And your position on FN’s is still without substance or merit .
Could care less how many Natives you know or worked for you are blinded by your own position in society and compare everything they do and have to your precious life .That is just sad .
No empathy at all .
And I do blame the religious fanatics who locked the FN’s away in residential schools and tried to beat the Indian out of them .
I could care less what colour skin you have .You could be flaming tartan for all that matters .
That is so unimportant as to border on the ridiculous .
The majority of people who dealt with the FN’s were white .
And just what Grand Chief from NWT are you talking about that has a $500,000, house ?
It sure isn’t Ovid Mercredi nor Matthew Coon Come .
Two of the most recent to head up the AFN .
Leasa, Phil Fontaine’s predecessor had a very nice $500,000 home in Yellowknife.
Absolute bull shyte . Matthew Coon Come was Grand Chief before Fontaine and he lives in Northern Quebec as a member of the Mistissini Cree Nation in Northern Quebec .
Prior to him was Ovid Mercredi from Manitoba .
Predecessor means directly before .
Provide a link or retract .
Helfarch Mawrth said: No empathy at all .
That’s the thing I don’t get. It’s almost as tho someone else was writing under his name.
Thanking GP? Say what?
Bill M is one of the most empathic people here. This topic has hit a chord more deeply than most.
But I’d still want him on my side in a debate.
Geo
National Chief Calls for an immediate and thorough Investigation into the Shocking Hate Crime at Kitigan Zibi First Nation .
“I am deeply saddened, shocked and gravely concerned that such a heinous hate crime could be committed against the people of the Kitigan Zibi First Nation,” said National Chief Phil Fontaine, of the white supremacist symbols and words spray painted on a cultural centre in the Algonquin community of Kitigan Zibi. The tents and picnic tables set up for National Aboriginal Day were also destroyed.
“This crime is a hate crime, and it harms all First Nations people, everywhere. We send our good wishes to the people of Kitigan Zibi and we stand together with them in a call to bring these hate mongers to receive their full punishment before the law. We expect no less than a full, speedy and just resolution to this matter,” said National Chief Fontaine.
“The Criminal Code of Canada says a hate crime is committed to intimidate, harm or terrify not only a person, but an entire group of people to which the victim belongs. The victims are targeted for who they are, not because of anything they have done.
“We expect that this hate crime will receive the same kind of thorough and serious investigation that other hate crimes have received in the past, such as the firebombings in Montreal,” said National Chief Fontaine. “We must ensure to send a very strong message to those who would commit such hate crimes, that they will not be tolerated or condoned and that they will be brought to justice.”
“This hate crime underscores the need for greater public education and awareness required on behalf of all Canadians in order to better understand all Aboriginal people. We once again call upon all Canadians to participate in our peaceful efforts to do this on June 29th. There are many events in all regions that are being planned. The full support of all Canadians to stand together with us against the hateful acts of a few, is needed at this time and would be warmly received.”
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.30.07 1:58 pm
I was talking about
Burning of Washington
Ah, and of course, any little thing you can muster to attack my position, as you have others, is justifiable, eh?
So, at the Batte of York what happened?
Well, let us see? Battle of York
Not that it matters one ounce at this point in time. Besides I was talking about the retaliation the Brits did of burning the government buildings in Washington, D.C., especially the White House, which was actually made of Brown Stine, and then, like the result of most of their actions…Whitewashed!
So, glad to know you feel you know something, because you certainly do not know me!
Garth, do you support the Kelowna Accord as it was originally agreed to?
So can we say that the aboriginal problem is due to inefficient federal government departments, unaccountable money in the hands of band chiefs, poorly organized native bands in remote locations, and the attempt to blackmail Canadians with a guilt trip over the plight of aboriginals who cannot be integrated or assimilated into Canadian society?
By Allan on 06.30.07 12:02 pm
Uh, yeah. L
Geo :
Couldn’t give a rats fat patooty about his alleged debating skills.He makes up wholly imagined facts and then tries to defend them .Loser .
He has proven who he is in his racist diatribes .
First against the French and now the FN’s .
I have no time for the idiot at all .
Bill M is one of the most empathic people here. This topic has hit a chord more deeply than most.
But I’d still want him on my side in a debate.
Geo
By Georgine on 06.30.07 3:32 pm
Conveniently forgetting his insane,rambling diatribe against the French .
“Don’t forget to order frogs legs when you go out for dinner tonight ”
You can have ‘em .
Geo:
I think you are right .
Someone cut and pasted an answer I gave to someone calling them a dunderhead and posted it onto a response you gave Muskoka.
Making it appear I called you a dunderhead.
That would never,ever happen as I have ultimate respect for you .
I smell Purist/Shadow all over this .
So, glad to know you feel you know something, because you certainly do not know me!
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.30.07 3:45 pm
Nice try A-hole . We know this isn’t Bill Muskoka .
His posts are ever so much more intelligent .
When Garth finds out you are gone, gone gone .
Canada has been afflicted with political correctness to a degree far beyond the loss of touch with reality.
Canada should learn from Israel!
Let’s offer aboriginal people fair area of land along with opportunity to create their own state. First Nations will have to renounce Canadian Citizenship in exchange for above opportunity. What will happen then we already know: Canadian Indians, who, in all the millennia preceding the arrival of “evil white peopleâ€, literally failed to invent the wheel, are being portrayed in CBC documentaries as carriers of elusive ancient wisdom will start to cut each other throats as Hamas and Fatah. But this will not be our problem anymore
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.30.07 1:58 pm
I was talking about
Burning of Washington
Ah, and of course, any little thing you can muster to attack my position, as you have others, is justifiable, eh?
So, at the Batte of York what happened?
Well, let us see? Battle of York
Not that it matters one ounce at this point in time. Besides I was talking about the retaliation the Brits did of burning the government buildings in Washington, D.C., especially the White House, which was actually made of Brown Stine, and then, like the result of most of their actions…Whitewashed!
So, glad to know you feel you know something, because you certainly do not know me!
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.30.07 3:45 pm
Couldn’t care less what you are talking about you idiot .
You are NOT Bill Muskoka .You are an imposter .
His posts are literate and intelligent unlike this illierate junk that you spew.
was talking about
Burning of Washington
Ah, and of course, any little thing you can muster to attack my position, as you have others, is justifiable, eh?
So, at the Batte of York what happened?
That’s right stupid .
This topic has hit a chord more deeply than most.
But I’d still want him on my side in a debate.
Geo
By Georgine on 06.30.07 3:32 pm
Thank you! Yes, it has hit a very deep chord with me because I gave several critical years of my life to making a better world, and left, feeling things were hopelesss…because of the rampant racism I experienced from people I deeply respect and care about. That is the second time I have experienced such a devastating afront to humanity and realistic sense.
I see this world is the throws of its own unknowing demise, and have shed many tears over it. We have so much knowledge, yet the barriers might as well be as high as Mount Everest between cultures.
Today’s Star points out how, regardless of country, the ‘Old Ways’ persist in our so-called multi-cultural society. Mixing and matching, to mom’s chagrin
As to my statment regarding Phil Fontaine’s predecessor, I did error, honetly and innocently after 11 years in that the Chief who has the $500,000 home in Yelllowknife is the Regional AFN Chief, Bill Erasmus. A nice man and human being, but a true politician nonetheless. AFN Executive Committee
Sorry for overnight delay, but we were busy yesterday evening.
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.30.07 11:03 pm
Ah, I see. Thank you for the compliment. Now, speaking of who is who here. You are sounding like you are JCLH, aka Helfarch Mawrth, aka, Sean P. Hogan, aka, Observer, aka Miltonman, aka, all the others. Has your MPD finally fully flared to where you are creating opponents to insult and argue with merely to fight the horrid boredom of being you?
After the Americans attacked and burned what major Canadian city? Sheesh! Have you been drinking or is your real self coming out today?
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.29.07 7:59 pm
What city are you talking about dumb bell ?
Were no cities back then only Forts .
Fort York was blown up by the British after they let the Yankees through the gates demolishing 250,of them .
Sheesh ! Read a book .
Why are you so adamant about this Bill? You know the money isn’t going to them. You know the right services aren’t making it to them. You know that one size does not fit all right across the country. So why so stubborn?
Geo
By Georgine on 06.29.07 11:46 pm
He feels his skin colour gives him immunity and he is allowed to criticize without actually knowing anything about the problem/issue .
Yea, all the chiefs live in $500.000 houses .
And that gets you an ordinary house in the Knife .Nothing special .
When BC Hydro assessed the responses to its latest open call for green power, included in the proposals was a $100 million run–of–river hydro project spearheaded by the Kanaka Bar Indian Band, located near Lytton, BC. The 50 megawatt project would provide clean power to 22,000 homes, and would also provide important jobs and funding for social programs in the community.
One unique feature of the proposal was the band’s partnership with Montreal–based Innergex II Power Trust, which will allow the band to retain full ownership of the facility in the future.
“When we talk about a partnership, it isn’t just a name to be tagged onto the project. Fifty years down the road, the Kanaka Bar Indian Band will be the 100 percent owner,†band chief James Frank told Business in Vancouver.
What initiatives like the Kanaka Bar project provide is a chance for First Nations to control their own economic destinies, while at the same time ensuring that the natural environment upon which they depend is protected.
Apart from environmental business ventures, First Nations are also involved in a number of important resource partnerships that have significant environmental implications.
As Aboriginal Pipeline Group Chair Fred Carmichael notes, “One hat we wear identifies our traditional role as guardians and stewards of the land. The other hat represents our emerging role as business opportunity developers.â€
And it is exactly those characteristics that make First Nations groups good partners for environmental business initiatives. With a rich history that relies on natural heritage, complemented by a growing awareness of the needs of their people for economic development, aboriginal groups can approach environmental issues from both perspectives.
While some see economic development as being in conflict with traditional values, others say that financial self–reliance helps to rebuild communities and spur traditional activities that help strengthen native culture.
Chief Clarence Louie, whose leadership of the British Columbia Osoyoos Indian Band has helped spur the development of businesses and also of a First Nations Heritage Centre that promotes cultural values, says that bands can preserve past traditions while looking to future development.
“I never bought that stuff about natives being non–competitive. Throwing the best potlatch required accumulating a certain amount of wealth,†he told BC Business magazine.
Working with First Nations firms provides a dual benefit, says Peter Vanriel of Canada North Environmental Services, an environmental consulting firm wholly owned by Kitaski Management that provides environmental training, environmental studies, and regulatory due diligence, mostly for the minerals industry in Northern Saskatchewan.
“The kind of work we do is technically rigorous, so they are meeting their regulatory needs, but at the same time our profits are benefiting aboriginal peoples in the north,†he said .
So yes,by all means audit them and figure out what they need .
We must maintain an arms length approach to our FN’s.
Give them the resources and let them get on with it .
Perhaps in the future they will develop a national initiative that all bands can use as a blueprint for sustainable development .
And that gets you an ordinary house in the Knife .Nothing special .
By Helfarch Mawrth on 07.01.07 11:06 am
Not eleven years ago it did not. That was the high end home, and it was massive, probably still is.
This whole issue will take a few generations to resolve. I have spent over 20 years dealing with reserves in Saskatchewan and from what I have seen it will have to start with the kids. To start with the kids you have to have responsible parents who will teach them respect, honesty and a will to work for their people. They have to get a good education to provide leadership and skills in administering the money that reserves receive. The will have to be accountable to the residents of the reserve even if most of the reserve doesn’t care yet. I think that a socialist form of management to begin maybe the only solution. Something good for everyone, not just one. Start with education, they have to learn the importance of getting an education so that they can return and contribute to the reserve, be it in health, education, financial, surveying, carpentry etc.. Once the foundation is set and qualified people are there, they can look at water treatment, doctors, nurses, dentist, roads, housing, addiction counseling and whatever they determine to be their main priority. Right now though, the parents are the key, how do you change them into becoming better and supportive towards the kids. To many times, I have seen drunk parents who do not have a clue or a care about their kids. I have seen teenage girls getting fertility drugs so that they can have more kids, because social services will get them a house in the city, I remember one 17 yr old trying to remember what her infant daughters name was, all she could say was that it was her check baby. I know that percentage wise this is not the norm of a reserve, but that percentage has an influence that greatly undermines the rest, throw in chiefs and council that suck the money out of their budget without any real repercussions and that feeds resentment with a feeling of, there is nothing I can do. Then you have Indian Affairs that will not do anything to prosecute this because it would be bad press, and the wheel just turns. In the long run it will be up to the natives to have this fortitude to pick themselves up and go the mile, time will tell.
By Smokingjoe on 07.01.07 10:42 pm
Hear! Hear! Truth speaks!
Make no mistake we,the white man, are responsible whether or not you are man enough to admit it
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 5:33 pm
Last time I checked, our legal system prohibits children from having to pay for the crimes of their great-grandfathers.
Tim N,
If you want to talk big numbers, the three levels of government in this country spend more than $500 billion on services for other Canadians.
That $500 billion is from the taxpaying Canadians. Maybe the Native gov’ts should start thinking about taxing their own people for services?
Whatsamatta Hogan jealous that you are now not alone ?
By Helfarch Mawrth on 06.29.07 3:53 pm
Child, run along.
Ah, I see. Thank you for the compliment. Now, speaking of who is who here. You are sounding like you are JCLH, aka Helfarch Mawrth, aka, Sean P. Hogan, aka, Observer, aka Miltonman, aka, all the others. Has your MPD finally fully flared to where you are creating opponents to insult and argue with merely to fight the horrid boredom of being you?
By Bill-Muskoka on 07.01.07 10:05 am
Are you off accusing me again of posting under another handle? Hate to disappoint you but I stand by what I say and use my full name, unlike you.
I just knew you would pipe up first!
By Georgine on 06.29.07 5:09 pm
I had to reply Georgie, its arrogant attitudes like your’s which divide, not unite. You stifle debate and/or any dissenting opinion. That’s the left-wing way.