Dug a few postholes today. It is an amazingly therapeutic thing to do. Crowbar, shovel. Crowbar, shovel. Crowbar,shovel. Not even a fancy manual posthole auger for this boy. Crowbar, shovel. Crowbar, shovel.
However, as I toiled in the sun to plant a row of eight-foot, four-by-four PTs, I thought incessantly about what I am writing at this moment. Finally, I decided to do it.
This weekend I received far too many emails designed to send but one message: I hate you. The hate in this case is not directed at me, but I was copied – presumably because I am an MP – by a lot of people who hate people living in Canada who are not like them. There’s obviously an unhealthy xenophobia alive in the land, and enough bigots to spread it around.
The Internet, of course, is the weapon of choice. Today the new technology may be the ultimate saviour of popular democracy, but it also sets a very low bar when it comes to broadcasting prejudice. And this is a cancerous strain. These people make no distinction between immigrants and refugees. They equate new arrivals with welfare cheats. They decry anyone who is not white, English or Christian. They paint with the broadest of brushes and smear with the thickest of ooze. And, of course, they vote. Which is why I get this stuff.
There are three ugly emails making the rounds. The first is a clumsy, crude Canadianization of an anti-Hispanic email which has been received by tens of millions of Americans and been used by some Republican candidates as a viral salvo. About our national anthem, it makes the laughable statement it originated as an English song. That would news to Calixa Lavallee, the francophone who wrote it. However, there’s nothing funny about the vigilante tone and numbing intolerance.
Our National Anthem
Don’t know what your opinions are, but I certainly agree. — I am sorry but after hearing they want to sing the National Anthem in Hindi – enough is enough. No where did they sing it in Italian, Japanese, Polish, Irish (Celtic), German, Portuguese, Greek, or any other language because of immigration. It was written in English, adapted into co-founding French, and should be sung word for word the way it was written.
The news broadcasts even gave the translation — not even close. I am not sorry if this offends anyone, this is MY COUNTRY – IF IT IS YOUR COUNTRY SPEAK UP —- please pass this along I am not against immigration — just come through like everyone else. Get a sponsor; have a place to lay your head; have a job; pay your taxes, live by the rules AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE as all other immigrants have in the past — and LONG LIVE CANADA!
PART OF THE PROBLEM Think about this: If you don’t want to forward this for fear of offending someone—–YOU’RE PART OF THE PROBLEM !!!! Will we still be the Country of choice and still be CANADA if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in CANADA because it is the Country of Choice??????
Think about it! IMMIGRANTS, NOT Canadians, MUST ADAPT. It is Time for CANADA to Speak up. If you agree – pass this along; if you don’t agree — delete it!
The second email is now about three years old, and its origin was a letter to the editor of the Toronto Star. Some wingnut wrote the paper in response to an article about a pilot project in southern Ontario to settle refugees from a war-torn region of Africa. He claimed these people were getting far richer treatment than retired Canadians collecting the CPP and OAS, and based this on a mythical monthly refugee pension paid out by Ottawa.
There is no such pension. But there sure is a well of anger and resentment, which manifests itself here. Not a day goes by I do not receive many of these, with my name attached to a long list of recipients. It is disturbing indeed so many Canadians would believe this. Unquestioning. Hateful.
It is interesting that the federal Government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1, 890.00 and each can also get an additional $580.00 in social
Assistance for a total of $2,470.00.
This compares very well to a single Pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of Canada for 40 to 50 years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement.
Maybe our pensioners should apply as Refugees!
Lets send this to all Canadians, so we can All be ticked off and maybe we can get the refugees cut back to $1, 012.00 and the pensioners up to $2,470 00 and enjoy some of the
Money we were forced to submit to the Government over the last 40 Or 50 years.
Please forward to every Canadian to expose What our elected politicians are doing – to the over-taxed Canadian.
SEND THIS TO EVERY CANADIAN TAXPAYER YOU KNOW
The third email is called The Welfare Poem. If you have read it, you will know why I am not reprinting it. These are words that should shame every person sending them to anyone else. Racism does not begin to describe the contents.
So, here’s the deal. If you get one of these, delete it. Better still, do what I do – reply to the sender and challenge him to come out from behind anonymity of the email hatred and explain the reason they polluted your inbox. Tell them they represent the worst in our society, that they’re myopic losers who don’t deserve to wash the car of the immigrant family across the road. They are gutless warriors for a losing cause, and you pity them. Throw in some expletives, and a few fairly precise references to sexual inadequacy.
Then go dig a hole.
86 comments ↓
Wow. I couldn’t agree with you more, Garth. We are not citizens of Canada; we are citizens of the world. Isn’t part of the “Canadian way” caring for people, regarldess of where they’re from?
Oh boy, here come the racial comments. No doubt you’ll be busy as hell censoring this one.
I must admit that I hold the second letter in some degree of agreement. My cousin works for the city of Calgary as a transit bus driver and she nailed one old chinese woman that could not ‘speak’ english screaming in chinese to probably be let out at a certain stop. Having had her fill of this woman, she says to her that she dropped her $20 bill. The old woman looks down and knows she got caught.
It is this expectation on the part of, not necessarily Chinese immigrants, but people coming to Canada overall who do not adapt to living here. Then again, working at a hotel I have dealt with some accents that were beyond thick, almost unintelligible.
But I do wonder how many ‘refugees’ were sent by forign governments to spy on us. Sorry, but again China comes to mind.
I do have to ask the question though of our xenophobia. Are immigrants xenophobic or is Canadian society?
No doubt someone will start to spout off at the mouth about terrorism. Shall be interesting to see how long this one remains civil.
So Garth, congratulations on sending out a chain spam email (via your blog).
However, I am somewhat concerned with your undertones – that only white, English or Christian can be rascists or bigots.
As have and am working many races and ethnic background, I saw both sides. Sure there were some white european ethnics who were bigots, but, there were just as many if not more non-white ethnic bigots. Jamaicans didn’t like Trinidadians; Arab didn’t like african blacks; Arabs didn’t like Indians; Sikhs didn’t like Hindus, etc. One of the most obvious example was the fact that they didn’t want their children to pick up the western ways (music, clothing styles, etc) or marry this ethnic or that ethnic. In fact, one of my young co-workers who used to live in Mississauga, stated that he and his fellow hindu friends used to walk to school because, another ethnic group of young men would attack if they walked by themselves.
Garth, you also included english in your critisisms. You may recall that Quebec has displayed less tolerance towards non-francophones and its ethnics this year alone.
So Garth, before you paint white, English, and Christians as evil rascists, you may want to retract this statement and put forth a more balanced observations. The facts, there are rascists and bigots in all walks of life and in all ethnic societies.
.I had coffee at Tim Horton’s with a friend, a municipal councillor. He was greeted by a former Quebec colleague who sat down to talk to us. Then a young man, came by and greeted us, too. My friend asked him about his family, heard all his good news and then turned to introduce him to us.I reached out and shook the young man’s hand, smiling. The former colleague, however, refused the stretched out hand saying he ‘didn’t shake hands with terrorists’. Shocked into silence, we watched the young muslim walk out.
I was so angry. My elected friend then turned to his former colleague and asked him if he’d ever heard of the FLQ.
We left the table. Most Canadians ARE shocked by overt racist behaviour.
With more time to reflect more on the picture you have chosen, Garth, I believe part of the problem is actual integration. Whether again it is xenopobia on the part of Canadian society or that of refugees/immigrants is a matter of debate. I would speculate that it is on both sides of that coin that are to blame.
While this will probably come as being bigoted, and I accept that, I do expect a certain level of integration on the part of those that come here. Sorry but that is the easiest manner for me to express that.
I suppose that what I find more disturbing is the actual image of the clothed woman from head to toe hidden from being seen. This, aside from a Sihk’s turban, shows me an individual that is, for whatever reason, in deeply with his or her religion/culture and tradition more than anything else. Personally, tradition bears little to my unless there is a reason for it’s existence in today’s times and world. Granted that the person probaly does not know any better and probably will not conform for whatever reason.
This clothed woman, to me, shows the ultimate form of oppression/stubborness that live in Canada. I do admit that I would prefer to not see such arachaic forms of clothing as it only serves to keep themselves separated. Honestly, I look upon such women with contempt, and probably more so with their culture/country of origin and wonder about what the husband is like. I have no doubts that I will receive a lot of flak on that point of view, but honestly, does anyone feel inspired to talk to a woman dressed in such a manner? Do any of us feel any inclination to discuss her philosphical/relgious beliefs? I do not as I expect that her command of the dominate language, be it french or english, is probably not that great. Again, I realize that it is a generalization that I paint people dressed in such a manner but best to admit it than to try to deny it.
I suppose that I summed up my view point by using the word arachaic. As per the definition on the website http://www.dictionary.com :
1. marked by the characteristics of an earlier period; antiquated: an archaic manner; an archaic notion.
2. (of a linguistic form) commonly used in an earlier time but rare in present-day usage except to suggest the older time, as in religious rituals or historical novels. Examples: thou; wast; methinks; forsooth.
Well, doesn’t that make you feel proud to be Canadian?
The first question to ask here is “what is a national anthem for?”. Simple – to provide a sense of national pride; to express your devotion and respect to your country and more importantly to your home (and for some, their heritage).
So just a few things: First, good point on the Lavalee issue, that it was a French and not translated to English – and later to Inuktitut – for years later.
Second, acknowledging that language can be a barrier and part of a culturally diverse society is embracing several languages, having an anthem translated to other languages just makes it easier for immigrants to express their aforementioned devotion and respect for their new homes and future heritage. That said, those who are stuck in a xenophobic tantrum about bastardizing “our” national anthem should be pleased that non-English/French speaking Canadians can express themselves in a way that honours their diversity and cultural contribution to our society.
So, my point – an anthem is a dynamic and breathing lyric that is supposed to embrace the spirit of the nation’s people. Our nation is built on the backs of immigrants AND native – for lack of a better term – Canadians and our anthem should reflect that spirit.
Deon
(and yes Garth, I think these people weren’t hugged enough or something)
Good morning all, hope everyone has had a productive morning thus far.
Garth, I do not know why people send ‘forwards’ at all of any kind. When I see a forward I don’t even read it. Most often they tell you you’re going to die if you don’t send it to 20 people. I don’t think I’ve had any friends send me racist crap, but as I said, I don’t read them. Not only are they sending you stupid crap that litters your inbox, but they are sending your email addy potentially all around the world. Next thing you know, you are being spammed beyond reason. In my business, I have many corporate clients and use EDI & iTrade and I can tell you, spam filters can go hay-wire and prevent you from receiving important messages, that can effect your business. So, yeah, when I see crap forwards…I get more than a little annoyed.
People when sending this stuff on, don’t think. Perhaps they ‘agreed’ with one line in the so called message, they are not realizing that the recipient of their forward might think they agree with 100% of the content.
Also, are we so lazy today that we cannot express an important sentiment in our own words? It is laughable when someone sends you a tax complaint poem and it talks of U.S. government policy. Duh.
There are a lot of problems in immigration and the way we handle refugees, but if one is not bent toward racism, they had better point out what aspects of policy they find upsetting, and not just rant about ‘immigrants’ in general. How can a thinking person let some old email express their feelings and expect it to be accurate?
I love it when a friend sends a forward telling me they love me, how important I am, and then at the end telling me if I don’t send it on, me and mine will be cursed. ha ha ha
L
Garth:
Times are a’changing, the world is smaller every day. New cultures are blending in with the old. We have an elected goverment that has turned it’s back on our First Nations People setting a very bad example to the world let alone those who have very little in life to feel proud of.
I will not accept nor will I give time and space in my head or life for those who see colour, race or greed above goodness. Kindness knows no boundries. Many educated well thought out words of wisdom have stood the test of time since the beginning of time, I do not see this changing even PMSH & Co can not change the 70% of Canadains who believe Canada is a fair and just society of people of all races.
I don’t pity them.
This is has been a problem that predates confederation.
There are some immigrants who come here with nothing, and all the disadvantages, who do much better than some born and bred Canadians (and by ‘born’ Canadians, I mean it in the truest sense of the word — the offspring of parents who were born in Canada — so yes, that does include everybody)
Whose to blame? Somebody must be blamed right? And of course, everybody is a victim of something.
Ergo, the hatred.
That’s my explanation for it.
Racism and bigotry and caused by fear within the writers of such material. Extreme levels of fear can lead to people taking irrational actions against others. None of this makes it right or acceptable of course. It just allows us to begin to understand the roots of prejudice. When we observe racism, bigotry, and prejudice in ourselves and in others we need to ask ourselves why we are afraid of those that are ‘different’ than us, and what insecurities we harbour within ourselves that lead us to take such a narrow view of others.
People judge groups and not individuals and it’s not fair.
My niece has a Muslim girlfriend – they’ve been friends since kindergarden (they’re are now 35). This girl even called me aunt. She’s quiet, kind and a truly nice person. As a teen she couldn’t date like others, but spent a lot of time at my sister’s home – part of the family. When 9/11 happened she was bullied, threatened and called names – hey, she didn’t have anything to do with it. She was afraid to go out so my niece and nephew used to make her go for a walk and they would walk on each side of her. It was sick and sad. She now keeps to her Muslim friends and family out of fear and frustration.
I have to say this – but most of this bigoted uninformed nonsense comes from conservative bloggers.
Bigotry and Racism are not bound by political party or social strata. I have seen Liberals and Conservatives as well as other political groups engage in bigoted and racist policies against a myriad of peoples who have come to this country for refuge.
The animal herd instinct seems to dictate to some people that if you are different from them in any way then you must be attacked or negatively stereotyped.
Multiculturalism as a concept is noble but as a practice it remains to be seen if the Harper Party has the political will to honor and support the fragile balance needed to preserve one of the qualities that make our country great and the singing of our national anthem a proud experience, no matter what language we collectively choose to sing it in.
I prefer the Cree version myself.
Wow, what a reasonable and non hateful discussion thus far, I am surprised and encouraged that we can discuss this difficult topic without racial slurs occurring. (I do wonder like others how much Garth will have to edit though!)
We must recognize that we are all biased by our upbringing and that may include a preconceived notion about a particular country or its inhabitants. In my opinion at least part of our problem with the intolerance for different races and religions comes from those that form insular groups within our society, those that do not mix and try and become a real part of the fabric of our nation do themselves a disservice. We are supposedly a “multicultural†society, I have yet to fully understand what that really means, some view it as a right to form an exclusive enclave within our population, others see it as an expression of our ability to share the best of all cultures with fellow citizens. It is the latter that I embrace, be you Chinese, Jamaican, native Indian, German, Portuguese or British it is the mixing and sharing of your values and traditions that make Canada great. We must engage those that would retain their ways and traditions to the exclusion of all else and whilst we must continue to be an open society, move very slowly to change our laws and accepted behaviors just to accommodate one particular group or another.
I am a believer of the “melting potâ€, just because you mix with other races and nationalities, does not mean that you cannot retain your own history and pass it on to your kids and friends. There is no need to be isolated in order to celebrate you “heritage†or language we can retain and pass along those things without mixing exclusively with our French or English or Chinese or whatever friends and relations.
And yes, that is easer said than done when one runs into open hate or distain from others in our society!
I have to say this – but most of this bigoted uninformed nonsense comes from conservative bloggers.
By slg on 07.16.07 10:21 am
Slg…that comment is utter bullshit. I won’t make ‘lists’ but I have heard racist hateful statements from all races and people of all political stripes, I would say that unfortunately, it seems to be pretty equal. To try to make it political by ‘branding’ one party is really stupid and does nothing to solve the problems many people face. Shame on you! Truth is however, the Conservative Party is very diverse and represents everyone from all races and physical handicap…Garth can attest to that. We are the most multi-cultural party in the House today.
Second, we must be very careful also not to label any one religion or race as be the ‘most bigoted’. I had a very close friend who dated an immigrant and lived with him for two years. His family was very upset that she was ‘white’ and refused to even speak to her. They broke up because of it. I also knew a sweet elderly person who was called a ‘white Christian dog’ by a group of Muslim young men.
Trying as hard as some to do pin labels on any one race, political party or religion of ‘who’s the most racist’ does nothing to solve today’s problems and only makes it worse.
So, sit on it slg and rotate.
L
I love it when a friend sends a forward telling me they love me, how important I am, and then at the end telling me if I don’t send it on, me and mine will be cursed. ha ha ha
L
By Angry Canadian on 07.16.07 7:43 am
I don’t normally agree with you L, but I too have stopped even reading these messages, let alone passing them along.
I received the message about refugees receiving more than pensioners from of all people – my eldest bro – last winter. And, have received similar messages from him. I was totally disturbed and shot back a response to the effect that I’d like proof and was upset that he had forwwarded it to me and so many others. No response, of course. I love him dearly, but his response to events often lack historical perspective.
I grew up in Montreal and 9 out of my 10 best friends were 1st generation immigrants – from Germany, Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Egypt, etc. Their parents struggled, but made a better life for they and their children. And, their experiencies & lifestyle made my life more interesting. My father,a 1st gen. immigrant, believed in assimilation, but it was easier being of European descent. I’m open & believe there is good in everyone, no matter from where they come. I feel extremely sad that so many immigrants from Islamic countries were painted as Jihadists & I blame the neocon propoganda machine in the US & the Harper hypocrites in Canada. Thank goodness that Harper wasn’t in power in 2001. Vive la difference, vive le Canada.
KPN
So, I guess if we are supposed to only sing the original lyrics as written by Calixa Lavallee and Sir Adolphe-Basile Routhier. After all, the English lyrics are a translation, and have even changed several times over the years. Only the French version still uses the original lyrics. As long as the intent and general concepts are maintained, I see no problem in translating it to other languages. Personally, I am waiting for a good Esperanto version of it.
FYI:
Here is a link to more information on the Canadian Anthem, from the Canadian Heritage governmental web site.
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm
Both sides have a point: as a progressive country, Canada should reasonably expect to bend a bit here and there to be inclusive, up to a point (without constantly overturning tradition); at the same time, people immigrating here should also be reasonably expected to show respect for popular “Canadian” tradition and mores–many of which are white and Christian in origin. I generally agree with anyone who falls on one side or the other of the argument, provided they recognize the relevance of both. Politeness is also big in my books.
However, I find that most of the people who loudly/faux-toughly whine and complain about “them” taking over, and say things like, “Give me back my country!” “We were here first” (*were* you?) “If you don’t like it, you can leave,” are bitter blowhards who blame their problems on everything else (lefties, righties, too much government, not enough government, manifest destiny, Bill Buckner, etc.). Generally, these people’s lives are small and grey enough that they’ll latch onto any passing crusade if it’ll give them a vague feeling of doing something productive. Me? I go for a walk.
Garth,
Today you’ve touched one out of those 5% that i disagree with you. Don’t get me wrong… generally speaking I’m a quite left-oriented human being. However, whereas I don’t have an opinion on email #2 (simply because i dont know the facts), I think the author of email #1 has a point, which is everything but racist. A national anthem should only be available in the nation’s official languages. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a national anthem. For those living in Canada (incl. myself), who are not Canadian, they should simply not have to worry about the Canadian anthem period – I couldn’t believe they made us sing it, the day I (and about 100 other people) got handed my permanent resident papers. A national anthem has the purpose to deliver a degree of identity to the respective country’s citizens. That identity includes the language. There is absolutely no racist background to this, as it applies to everyone – regardless of skin colour and religion.
Meanwhile the guy clearly says: “I am not against immigration — just come through like everyone else. Get a sponsor; have a place to lay your head; have a job; pay your taxes, live by the rules AND LEARN THE LANGUAGE as all other immigrants have in the past”
…so, he’s asking for integration… is that so much to ask?
This stuff does come from conservatives. I’ve got scars from beatings to prove it. Try getting bashed for being homosexual and latin. Call the police and then have them urinate all over you. This happens in Alberta. No lie.
BTW,
are you soon going to share your thoughts on the governments environmental “initiatives”?
SLG said at the beginning of his post, People judge groups and not individuals and it’s not fair.
Then SLG said this at the end of this post, I have to say this – but most of this bigoted uninformed nonsense comes from conservative bloggers.
SLG, how can you say one thing at the beginning that is totally opposite of the last thing that you said? Simply put, you’ve just been caught in a huge contradiction.
Garth said, There’s obviously an unhealthy xenophobia alive in the land, and enough bigots to spread it around.
Then Garth says this, They decry anyone who is not white, English or Christian. They paint with the broadest of brushes and smear with the thickest of ooze.
Um Garth, you’ve been caught in the same contradiction as SLG. Try again. Oh and Garth, I think you need to write your columns in Hindi as you’re offending me by not being multi-lingual in your writings.
Hate lesson!
1. “There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies Ânot just in ability but in
morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it
seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not
belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.” Israeli
president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
2. “The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more”….
Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time – August 28, 2000. Reported in the
Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
3. ” [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the
Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June
1982.
4. “The Palestinians” would be crushed like grasshoppers … heads smashed against the
boulders and walls.” ” Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers
New York Times April 1, 1988
5. “When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to
scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the
Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.
6. “How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to.”
Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.
7. “There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed.” Golda Maier Israeli Prime
Minister June 15, 1969
8. “The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that
Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed
after the war.” Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha’aretz, 19 March 1972.
9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would
never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true
God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has
been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but
one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
10. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : “We must do everything to insure they ( the
Palestinians) never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never
come back to their homes. “The old will die and the young will forget.”
11. “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.”
Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the
mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
12. “Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I
want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel.
We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” – Israeli Prime
Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael
radio. (Certainly the FBI’s cover-up of the suggests that Mr. Sharon may not have been
joking.)
13. “We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of
Eretz Israel… Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force
until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.” Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the
Israeli Defense Forces – Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14
April 1983.
14. “We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return”
David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion:
the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
15. “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon,
Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial
and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will
smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and
move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the
General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New
York 1978.
16. “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of
all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig
Memorandum”
17. “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the
names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer
exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose
in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of
Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place
built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.” Moshe Dayan, address to
the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.
18. “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What
is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture
which said ‘Drive them out!’” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs,
published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
19. Rabin’s description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. “We
shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters” Uri
Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion’s special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From “The Arabs in
Israel” by Sabri Jiryas.
20. “There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high
percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there
are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the
activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. [I] tend to support the latter view and
have an additional argument:…the need to sustain the character of the state which will
henceforth be Jewish…with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already
reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary.” Joseph
Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid
State by Uri Davis, p.5.
21. “Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the
settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don’t grab will
go to them.” Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from
the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
22. “It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously,
a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no
Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the
expropriation of their lands.” Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
23. “Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment… Both
the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly
and circumspectly.” Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking
of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.
24. “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” — Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb.
27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
25. “We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do
will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of
our own.” (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).
26. “We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is
whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent.” (Jewish Banker Paul
Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).
27. “We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not…You can hasten
our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to
avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow
the world.” (Chaim Weizmann, Published in “Judische Rundschau,” No. 4, 1920
To me, the whole issue is simple.
First and foremost we are citizens of Canada. That comes with all its traditions and customs and the 2 official languages.
We must, also, keep in mind that we are also citizens of the world. Nothing in this means we must give up our traditions and customs.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who is peaceful and wants to live here can. The reality is that without immigration we are in some serious trouble.
As far as all the statements about immigrants going on welfare, and/or taking the ‘good’ jobs..it is all poppycock.
My understanding is that (based on Stats Can figures) the years that we’ve had the highest amount of immigration, we have had the lowest levels of unemployment. The assumption seems to be that immigration actually creates work and not the other way around.
Regarding terrorists and others who want to change or destroy the Canadian way of life; move. If you don’t like it here, or you wish to cause harm to Canadians or our way of living, you are acting in a treasonous manner. These types of people (regardless of race, looks. religion etc) should be treated as if they committed treason.
To anyone who doesn’t like our way of living and would wish to FORCE us to adapt to yours, feel free to move somewhere else.
I fully respect and support tolerance, and other peoples customs and ways of life. However, our Canadian way of life should take precedence. I am tired of being told what I CAN’T do because it may offend some minority or other group.
While I’m on a roll, I’d also like to express my displeasure at people who refer to themselves as some hyphenated race-Canadian name. E.G. Italian Canadian, African Canadian etc. If you live here it should be Canadian FIRST. If you are so proud that you’d put another race before Canada in your name, feel free to move.
Canada is our home. Canada is the country we were born into or chose to live in. It should come FIRST. For far too many, it has simply become a home of convenience.
The ethnic diversity of the Canadian population is one of the main things that makes this country great. Canada is the best place on the planet to learn about and experience a wide variety of cultures. Anyone who is open to such experiences will have their lives enriched. If one encounters someone with racist attitudes, one should patiently explain to the small-minded person how we all benefit from cultural diversity. If enough people do this, the tolerance meme will gradually spread.
Being an immigrant miself (not a visible minority though) my stand on these issues is:
1. The national anthem belongs only in the official languages of the country. If one has a problem with it, he/she is not worthy of the citizenship.
2. I do not know the facts. However, if the facts are tru to the point writen on the email, the writer is right.
On a general note:
1. It was us who wanted to come to Canada, recognizing that the Canadian way, culture and traditions had created a country that offered us a better life than our own. If the ways, culture and traditions of our own countrie were better, we’d see Canadians immigrating to our country. If one does not like the Canadian way, culture and traditions he’s free to pack his bags and leave.
2. As for wemen covering, in one way they have the right to cover if they so desire. However, everybody else has the right to not like it and to not want to have anything to do with the covered person. If one chose to cover oneself, he/she brought onto oneself the limitations and restrictions that come with it.
When I was much younger and far more conservative, it bothered me greatly that new comers to Canada could not speak English and the thought that someone would cheer for another nation hockey team in the World Cup or the Olympics was a point to piss me off,… and the thought of anyone sing our nation anthem in anything but English was just unthinkable. But I have grown, I understand the difficulties that adults have learning a new language and I understand the attachment one feels for ones home of birth.
So if a new Canadian isn’t able to sing the words of O’Canada in English or French, but is able to show their love and respect for their new home by singing the anthem in their native language, who am I to complain. They are trying to show respect to their home and nation as best they can.
Right now I live in a section of Toronto that heavily populated by Eastern European immigrants. Most of the children speak english perfectly and ofter act as translators for their parents or grandparents. (damn my neighbour and I can’t talk about shit without his five year old translating for us [she's better than both of us]) These cluster communities are part of the integration process that usually takes a full generation to achieve. So if my neighbours wish to celebrate Canada Day with fireworks, a neighbour BBQ and singing the O’Canada in any form, who gives a rats arse. I know these people, they work very hard to make a life here, to pay their taxes, to raise their kids to have a better shot at the brass ring. In a perfect world they would speak English,… but in that perfect world I would also their native language as well.
Seriously people, does it matter what the language is, as the song is the rejoicing our great nation and that they now call it home?
This stuff does come from conservatives. I’ve got scars from beatings to prove it. Try getting bashed for being homosexual and latin. Call the police and then have them urinate all over you. This happens in Alberta. No lie.
By Mau on 07.16.07 12:37 pm
What have you been smoking man?
Did you ask those that beat you what political party they belonged to? Also was the police those dreaded conservatives as well? Was it an all Conservative gang? Are there also gangs of Liberals and NDP as well? The gang you want to watch out for is that GREEN Gang. Come on get a grip and quit posting that hog wash. Only in Alberta you say?
“The gang you want to watch out for is that GREEN Gang”
YA! We’ll compost your arse!
Interesting that Sean Hogan worries about my “contradiction” as he puts it over the story.
OK, let me put is another way….in reading conservative bloggers I’ve found many that are bigoted in this direction….feel better now?
Meanwhile, the point of the story is ignored – is because the girl is Muslim that you don’t care what she went through?
Garth, the emails you posted are oversimplifications of a complex issue that has been more visible in Québec than in the rest of the country. I believe that we are all to blame for failure to integrate minorities in a way that we can then live in harmony. If there are home-grown muslim terrorists, then they fall in the same category as white supremacists. I totally agree that the emails are unacceptable but if we are not going to discuss the underlying issues, then the tensions will not diffuse.
They equate new arrivals with welfare cheats. They decry anyone who is not white, English or Christian. They paint with the broadest of brushes and smear with the thickest of ooze. –Garth
Garth, I take exception to claiming that all racists are white, Christians. Are you asserting that people in other ethnic groups are ‘different’ than white, Christians? Racism is alive and well in most countries around the world. I wouldn’t expect that people from these nations would simply give it up when they immigrate to Canada. Many Canadians certainly haven’t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_People‘s_Republic_of_China
The Shadow knows,
Let me see. Liberals are all about human rights, so are the NDP and as far as I know the greens. Conservatives on the other hand view human rights from a social conservative viewpoint. Like the case in court in Calgary today. Religious freedom of expression versus hate speech. Unforunately I was shown freedom of religious expression.
Yes they were conservatives and nobody asks such things when being pummleled and made bloody but when they call you a scum sucking faggot pinko, you kind of get the impression they are coming from the right side of the political spectrum.
Reg, loved your post. I do have a question about this line.
The reality is that without immigration we are in some serious trouble.
Why are we in serious trouble?
SLG, the point of the story fell aside to your hypocritical comment about grouping people into stereotypes and then you go and stereotyped a group of people. Oh yes, the hypocrisy stands.
People just need to remember Canada’s history and who and what built this beautiful country.
Take time to read the Canadian Constitution to be reminded why Canada is Canada.
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association
In this world, everyone thinks they are right. Everyone thinks their religion is the answer. Everyone thinks there way of thinking is better. There is so many different people in this world and in present time we as a people have so much access to so much information that I believe it is scarring people or creating fear because we now are able to see how the rest of the world, other cultures and other countries work and live. In general it is not scary, but it can create fear to know there are so many other ‘answers’ out there. Maybe sometimes people associate ‘conservative’ with small mindedness because the defination of that is “Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change” or “One favoring traditional views and values.” So, you don’t like change. That is fine, except globally, the world is changing. People also tend to put down what they don’t know, new change, oohhh scary…
People don’t often put Liberal thinkers in the same group because liberal means “Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.” That being said, liberal thinkers if they are true to the meaning usually accept change and difference. As for Mau and By the Shadow, if someone is acting like a conservative by not accepting something new or different(by means of the defination, then they are probably a conservative. It might not always be fair, but look at the stats. And as usual, one group of people will ruin it for everybody.
‘Like the case in court in Calgary today. Religious freedom of expression versus hate speech.’
WhatWhatWhat? Did wee Ezra get caught finally?
Interesting that Sean Hogan worries about my “contradiction†as he puts it over the story.
OK, let me put is another way….in reading conservative bloggers I’ve found many that are bigoted in this direction….feel better now?
Meanwhile, the point of the story is ignored – is because the girl is Muslim that you don’t care what she went through?
By slg on 07.16.07 2:45 pm
No SLG, I don’t think the subject has anything to do with his comments, he is a sideline sitter who waits for anyone to make a mistake or to contradict themselves so he can jump in and, in his estimation, make himself look good. I don’t think he gave any consideration to the topic, so to accuse him of not caring about the muslim girl would not be true. Now that you have pointed it out to him, I am sure he will give you an appropriate response.
Garth, I take exception to claiming that all racists are white, Christians. Are you asserting that people in other ethnic groups are ‘different’ than white, Christians? Racism is alive and well in most countries around the world. I wouldn’t expect that people from these nations would simply give it up when they immigrate to Canada. Many Canadians certainly haven’t.
I think they call this the straw man?
Yes they were conservatives and nobody asks such things when being pummleled and made bloody but when they call you a scum sucking faggot pinko, you kind of get the impression they are coming from the right side of the political spectrum.
By Mau on 07.16.07 3:03 pm
I’m sorry that you got beaten up but I think your reasoning is all wrong Mau. Guess your idea is that all the bad folks come from the right and all the good folks come from the left. Me thinks you have a lot to learn my friend.
SLG, I strongly suggest you take a trip over to progressive bloggers and you can find just as many wing nuts over there as you can at BT. I make it a point to read blogs that support each party each day to try and arrive at a balance between.
Mike from Cornwall
Name him…that sir would take courage!
Also what surprises me I am the first to ask. Perhaps standing tall on the same ground that our grandparents are buried in is too much for some people.
I really don’t need anyone’s suggestion here. I worded it badly so hang me for God sake – you are truly missing the point.
I read the BT’s and shake my head. At least there are some real discussion at the Liberals, NDP and Greens.
So you can try to attack me here all you want – it will not be taken seriously by me. Certain of you go out of your way to avoid any discussion and nitpick and try to stir the anger pot. I isn’t working.
SLG, I strongly suggest you take a trip over to progressive bloggers and you can find just as many wing nuts over there as you can at BT. I make it a point to read blogs that support each party each day to try and arrive at a balance between.
By KH on 07.16.07 4:25 pm
KH – Last year I actually did visit some BT sites, but they actually made me ill, both physically and mentally. There are enough neocon trolls on Lib sites, why would I want to torture myself further.
KPN
Honourable Garth Turner, M.P. Halton.
c.c. lettertoed@thestar.ca
Editor@oakvillebeaver.co.
I do not hate, but I am angry.
Unlike you Mr. Turner, I have lived it. The racism, discrimination, insults, the beatings.
I was born to immigrant parents in the early years of the Great Depression. We didn’t have medic care, UIC, and social security. My parents received “ relief payments†barely enough to by a loaf of bread and a quart of milk per week.
But let’s go back a bit. Prior to the mid 1800’s Canada was British and French to a large extent. Then about 1850 others started arriving. At almost the same time, the Irish, fleeing the potato famine and the Black slaves arriving via the Underground Railroad. The hardships they struggled through are unspeakable.
Just visit the Necropolis or the St. Michael’s cemeteries. Read the inscriptions on the headstones. Pay particular attention to the ages.
Then came the Chinese to build our national railway. Ask how many perished during construction and how they were treated afterwards. (Head Tax.)
Beginning about 1890 Canada had a large influx of Ukrainians who were transported to Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta into the middle of nowhere with only the clothes on their backs and a few utensils.
With virtually their bare hands they cleared the land and with a few seeds in their pockets they forged rich grain crops on farms that then fed the entire country of Canada. This, after suffering the ignominy of being branded aliens during the Great War because they were erroneously labeled Austrians, the occupiers of their homeland and for the very reason they escaped to Canada.. They had their properties confiscated and interned in prison camps for years.
Then came the others. Hard working Dutch, German, Polish. They all took jobs at whatever and wherever they could and they all contributed to building this great country. What about the Italians. Through their hard labor they constructed our cities, our homes, commercial buildings, roads and subways..
Let’s not forget what Canada did to Japanese during the Second World War. Just how many were sent to the prison camps ?
None of these people’s screamed about their treatment. None had free ESL. Many, as my parents did, paid 50 cents a week to learn the English language.
They then raised their children, with meager resources, loving Canada, to become outstanding citizens. Doctors, lawyers, engineers and even to the highest post in Canada as Governors General. Just ask our present Governor General how she feels about being a Canadian. Bet she thanks every day for the opportunities Canada gave her.
But if you ask them all who they are, they would stand tall and proudly say they are CANADIANS. Not just Canadian Citizens with a piece of paper to prove it.
Even though all remembered their culture, heritage and language they were CANADIAN. Sure they have their community centers, they used them to enrich Canada, not to stand alone in enclaves unto themselves.
Stand back people. Look at what you have in Canada. Help us to continue building this greatest country in the world.
DON’T BRING YOUR PREJUDICES AND RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS HERE. Remember, you are no better than the person next to you !!!!
I think they call this the straw man?
Straw man Tom? I have been around Koreans who have made racial slurs about the Chinese. I was in a cab while the East Indian driver was complaining about the poor Chinese drivers. I heard a Jew say he ‘couldn’t wait to get back to Toronto because there were more Jews there’. When I was in Egypt, the Egyptians made slurs about the Nubians. David Ahenakew, a native leader, praised Hitler for his treatment of the Jews. Just because they aren’t white doesn’t make it right. It has to do with broad generalizations based on limited experience. Ask an 5-7 year old what makes birds different from other animals. They’ll undoubtedly say that they fly. Then bring up bats or ostriches. Human beings like to classify and generalize. Kind of like how Garth generalizes all white Christians as being racists.
Jennifer,
Maybe sometimes people associate ‘conservative’ with small mindedness because the defination of that is “Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change†…
People don’t often put Liberal thinkers in the same group because liberal means “Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.â€
The Liberal Party of Canada is far from being free from bigotry. They are the party that said ‘no Jew is too many’ with respect to Jews fleeing to Canada. And it was a Conservative to brought the Bill of Rights into law. So much for your classifications.
Mau
Yes they were conservatives and nobody asks such things when being pummleled and made bloody but when they call you a scum sucking faggot pinko, you kind of get the impression they are coming from the right side of the political spectrum.
Funny, I get the impression that they are just stupid homophobes. The left and right both have a history of prejudice against homosexuals.
It would be interesting to return in another century or millenia and see if the so-called ‘human race’ has learned anything?
Hmmm. The emails that Garth quotes stink more of inaccuracy and misinformation to my nose than they do of bigotry or racism.
The first one begins quite reasonably. Although I don’t agree that it is offensive to hear our anthem sung in other languages, I suppose that I can understand that certain traditionalists may. The rant that follows?…Well that’s were the misinformation comes in.
The second email is simply inaccurate. I really don’t find anything racist about it.
The third email that Garth can’t even quote is the one that I suspect has really pissed him off.
Racism and bigotry are terms that we shouldn’t throw around lightly. Heck, I remember not to long ago it was Garth that was having to defend himself against false accusations of hatred.
Political correctness is barrier which obstructs open debate much of the time. Not to mention it’s annoying!
Just the other day I caught heat from a buddy of mine for using the term “oriental”. It seems that we (whatever the hell we means) gave them.
Does the fact that I think that the Isreali government is fallible make an anti-semite? It’s been suggested.
And last but not least, I refuse to use the terms “African Canadian” or “African American”! I refuse to refer to someone as African when their family roots in this country may well date back earlier than mine. Maybe I’m being politically correct when I simply refer to them as black!
Once again, let’s save our stones to throw at real bigots and racists. Lord knows, they’re out there and walking amongst us.
It would be interesting to return in another century or millenia and see if the so-called ‘human race’ has learned anything?
By Bill-Muskoka
Stay were ever you are Bill, nothing will change, hell even the first Battle Star will be armed and I am sure they will have a bar on board. Just like the first settlers here in North America.
In any rate where ever y’all are going must be better becuse no one has come back.
Prejudice is found among those of all political stripes but the tendency to stereotype and target specific groups generally does appear to be more prevalent on both the right and left political extremes. While the targets of this kind of prejudice are often different, the implications are the same.
Whether you are prejudiced against immigrants, police, those of a different religion, colour, geographical residence, economic class, and so on these are all prejudices. These are often based on one negative encounter or are learned through the promotion of stereotypes and passed on from one individual to another or generation to generation.
Ironically, those who have been the target of prejudice often become the most prejudiced against others. The first stage in controlling one’s prejudice is by recognizing it in oneself.
Stephen Harper is a good example of a prejudiced individual whose prejudice is based in his right wing ideology. He can easily forgive a repressive regime like that of right wing Columbian President Alvaro Uribe while condemning a left wing regime for the same thing.
For a right wing extremist capitalist markets are the priority not democracy or human rights. Harper’s extremism is based on the idealization of an aberrant form of capitalism where democracy and human rights are secondary to capitalist controlled markets and governments. The principle that the ends justifies the means is evident in Harper’s position with regard to Columbia. He is prejudiced against those who hold other views and makes him totally oblivious to his hypocrisy in dealing with leaders of other countries. It is dangerous because in that condones violence, murder, and political repression in order to enforce an economic system.
Steve; I assume that your “contempt” of women who clothe themselves from head to toe would include Mennonite women?
Many Mennonite women wear black from head to toe (even in the heat of the summer) They do it for religious reasons. They are Christians.
What is it exactly about Ontario Mennonites that you so dislike?
I’m currently taking a French course in Quebec and signed some form saying I would try to speak French at all times. I must sound like a complete numpty and I’m pretty grateful to the Quebecoise in Chicoutimi who are patient, understanding and helpful. This is experience motivates me to be extra sensitive in the future to people who are trying to speak my language. I recently returned from East Africa where the average person speaks 4 languages by the age of 10. A lot of newcomers in Canada are already multi-lingual and determined to learn yet another language here. Wow! That’s pretty impressive and we’d do well to appreciate them.
Canada is going through a large transformation because of our open door immigration policies of the past and our belief in a multicultural society. A perfect example of this is the city of Toronto where over half the population were not living in Canada 10 years ago.
This huge influx of immigrants is bound to create tensions amongst Canadians, and Garth has just given us several examples.
New immigrants will polarize themselves in their own neighbourhoods and attempt to recreate their homeland culture and society in Canada. This is the only way they know how to survive in a foreign land. Their children born in Canada will feel more at home here and feel like part of the country.
New immigrants are subjected to pressures of integration and assimilation. They want to integrate in order to participate in the economy, and they do this easily. However they resist assimilation because that will destroy their ethnic identity.
I remember the Jews of the 1950s when they feared “intermarriage”. Now it is a non-issue because they are assimilating into the society through their children.
New immigrants do integrate productively into the Canadian economy, but what is of concern to me is the resistance to assimilate, particularily when assimilation is strictly forbidden religiously. This creates immigrant ghettoes and will create extreme problems in the future as international conflicts involve these self-segregated ethnic entities within Canada. You know what I am talking about.
I think Canada must hold off on new immigration and allow the country to digest and absorb what we have now. Integration must be accompanied by assimilation or else we will see more conflict and violence in a divided society.
The intractable irony is that anti-bigotry, itself, is bigotry.
Just a thought.
[...] Greens and some Progressive Bloggers we see some authoritarian leaders and followers. Over at The Turner Report, there is a discussion of bigotry and hate in Canada, the wilful dissemination of untruth and the [...]
SLG
For the young woman that suffered undeservedly, I am most sorry for. While I am not trying to justify the actions of those that reacted so emotionally it is understandable for such feelings to sprout up. If there is to be any one source to point the finger at, I would have to point my finger at the government/corporations/mass media (news). While I cannot comment too much on the more conservative newspapers National Post/Toronto Sun chains for print and Global for TV, these outlets alone I think are to blame for the perceptions of the Middle East being negative. While I will not directly accuse them of being pro Israeli, given the fact of Global/National Post being owned by the Asper family, well, I don’t believe I need to say anything more. While I do not have a negative view point per se of those media companies owned by families of the Hebrew faith, it is not usually too far off to guess which side of the world of news and politics will be broadcasted. As for, indirectly, the typical money and voting group that these families represent, again, politicians will prostitute themselves out to the grestest number of potential voters.
Now Judy, I knew that I would attract the attention of someone such as yourself to attempt to grill me on my view points and that is fine. As I typed I do hold women dressed in such a manner with contempt. This feelings is based on my personal opinion that the woman in the picture, and she does look young and probably quite attractive, has in essence segregated herself visually as being outside society. Having had more than a few minutes between leaving for work and being able to log on at work, I have been able to deduce why these feelings exist.
What she represents, to me, is a throw back to a society that I view or deem to being a throw back and anything but progessive. I recall very vivdly the Kadhr family, and more particularly the mother and daughter that were covered head to toe in such garments. If you do not recall the father’s philosophy, it is one of complete revolutionary ideals and attitudes that is best suited for the battlefield. Now I know where this can lead to and no, how one dresses does not guarantee any affiliation to any terrorist organization, however, it signifies a greater possibility.
When I see a woman dressed like that, she also represents something I feel very alienated from. Tthat is talking to her, not that I do out of the blue to anyone that I do not know, rather there is a detached visual apart from society. If she is content to live in a self imposed ghetto (and that applies to everyone that resides within a certain radius in a city or town where the subculture is homogenous, then I will not go up to her and try to change her ways. What I would be looking for is a hint of intelligence that there is more to live than the beliefs that she may or may not espouse is by how she dresses. We are a judgemental species and subconsciously or not we judge people by the clothes they wear. To deny is to be dishonest to yourself. So, as a form of collateral damage, yes, I also hold the Hutterites, Mennonites and all the other ghettoized relgious communities in some form of contempt who remain true to the old way of life. Like it or not, this is a pretty progressive country and if decisions that are made in the courts or government are against his or her beliefs, well, one can always buy a ticket and leave. Plain and simple.
Now, I am not a socially conservative individual. The only things I believe in to be conservative are finances and the environment. My beliefs of governance is based on a more just society where there are rules and laws that apply to everyone. My honest feeling is that having a secular society and governance is really the only way to best deal with our multicultural communities without trying to concentrate any favouritism to any ethnic/religious group.
Judy
After rereading your response to my comments, I must say that you have put words into my mouth that were not there before. I was commenting specifically on the photo but sure, wtf…why not just include everyone that des dress funny every day of the year. You at least know where I stand in a forum such as this versus not saying a word at all in public or on any internet forum at all. Which usually is more than can be said of most politicians.
Again, given more time I see the woman in the photograph as well your mentioned extreme Christian groups as being exactly that…extreme. There is a book I am reading slowly again entitled the Middle Pillar. In it the belief that it is human nature to go from one extreme to the other is a natural progression and that theoretically one comes to a sense of balance between them. The extreme pillars of the Tree of Life are that of Mercy and Power.
Like it or not, I am not comfortable with a visual extreme of any religion.
wing Columbian President Alvaro Uribe while condemning a left wing regime for the same thing.
It is dangerous because in that condones violence, murder, and political repression in order to enforce an economic system.
By C. B. Innes on 07.16.07 9:14 pm
Morning C.B. Just wondering if you have an url to prove any of this? Have you talked to the Prime Minister personally where he told you all this? What left wing regime is he condemning? Are you referring to China? China is about as as far from bleeding heart lefties a regime can possibly get. Set us all straight there C.B., what literature or facts do you have to back up any of these assumptions?
I’m not asking from any bias, in fact I hate Free Trade to the max as I’ve explained here a few times.
Also, if this is all based on your own ideals, how would you spin it if Mr. Dion was P.M. and doing the same thing?
L
For a right wing extremist capitalist markets are the priority not democracy or human rights.
By C. B. Innes on 07.16.07 9:14 pm
Without open and free markets you can’t have democracy and human rights. Access to open and freemarkets and a free and open society is what democracy and human rights are all about.
No SLG, I don’t think the subject has anything to do with his comments, he is a sideline sitter who waits for anyone to make a mistake or to contradict themselves so he can jump in and, in his estimation, make himself look good. I don’t think he gave any consideration to the topic, so to accuse him of not caring about the muslim girl would not be true. Now that you have pointed it out to him, I am sure he will give you an appropriate response.
By pjw on 07.16.07 4:14 pm
Actually PJW, I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of those who accuse white people of being racist, of those who accuse conservative-minded people of being intolerant all the while stating that they themselves are tolerant.
Same thing with Garth, he tries to point out that there is racism in our society and that he himself isn’t racist but then he blames white Christians. This in itself clearly shows that Garth himself has the problem. Garth associates people who are against multi-culturalism with racism and nothing could be further from the truth and the examples provided really don’t show hatred at all. Garth and others are just jumping on the PC wagon again.
Of course most people are bigoted, racist, prejudiced bundles of insecurity. We white Christian folk just tend to be better at it than others. — Garth
And last but not least, I refuse to use the terms “African Canadian†or “African Americanâ€!
By Andrew McDonnell on 07.16.07 7:27 pm
That reminds me of the American Soldier, who, after fighting against the horrors in Somalia, said ‘I will never again refer to myself as an African-American…I am just an American!’
In any rate where ever y’all are going must be better becuse no one has come back.
By David Bakody on 07.16.07 8:59 pm
Good point. Although, now and then we hear stories of Ghosts who venture back, but they do not mix with the living…can you blame them? It was a killer experience for them the first time.
I really don’t need anyone’s suggestion here. I worded it badly so hang me for God sake – you are truly missing the point.
I read the BT’s and shake my head. At least there are some real discussion at the Liberals, NDP and Greens.
So you can try to attack me here all you want – it will not be taken seriously by me. Certain of you go out of your way to avoid any discussion and nitpick and try to stir the anger pot. I isn’t working.
By slg on 07.16.07 5:37 pm
Sorry SLG, I don’t believe that you unitentionally worded it badly, I believe that you meant it as is. Its that old thing where the left state they’re tolerant and preach it but when others have a different view they lose their tolerance and scream bigotry and racism. You see, you can’t have it both ways, and since you posted it, its obvious you did want it out in the open and now its there for discussion, whether you participate in it or not.
I don’t believe you’ll get angry as you don’t understand what you said.
Without open and free markets you can’t have democracy and human rights. Access to open and freemarkets and a free and open society is what democracy and human rights are all about.
By AD on 07.17.07 8:06 am
The term “freemarkets” is really an oxymoron. A more accurate terms is “capitalist” markets or markets controlled only by those who have access to capital. Access to capital is easily denied to the majority in such a system.
The way the system has evolved is that referred to as “free markets” are in no way “free.” In fact, you could say they are “purchased” by the highest bidders. That means they are closed to a large number of potential entrepreneurs by cronyism.
States can operate easily without human rights and democracy, at least in the short term and are still “right wing” in the sense that government and the state work to achieve and maintain a crony class.
Of course most people are bigoted, racist, prejudiced bundles of insecurity. We white Christian folk just tend to be better at it than others. — Garth
Don’t include me in that we Garth. If you want to lump yourself into that group, go right ahead.
It is rather humourous that you lump Christians into the bigoted category all the while decrying xenophobia. Hypocrisy at its best.
See what I mean? — Garth
Steve: So anyone who does not conform to your standard of dress makes you uncomfortable? I believe your comments are not a bias against religious codes of dress but against ANY person whose attire is contrary to your own accepted norm.
And to call Mennonites “extreme Christians” is mystifying.
You haven’t demostrated anything Garth except that you think white Christians are bigoted. All I’ve demonstrated is that you’re being hypocritical. Keep going Garth, you’re digging a fine hole.
What is wrong with this?
42% of all immigrants come to Toronto. Canada is a big country. This kind of concentration leads to big trouble.
Hate lesson!
By wd on 07.16.07 1:03 pm
wd – Pardon my ignorance, but you’re going to have to do a better job of explaining what the lesson is here. I’m not at all clear on what you’re trying to say. Are we playing ‘come up with 27 semi-random quotes by people of a single faith or ethnic group, so as to impugn the entire population’? Or is it something more innocent? I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hopefully you can set the record straight.
Garth – I don’t know whether this comment has been edited, but in its current form it is easy (for me at least) to interpret this as an attempt to denigrate an entire faith, under the guise of somehow informing or educating.
Of course most people are bigoted, racist, prejudiced bundles of insecurity. We white Christian folk just tend to be better at it than others. — Garth
So white Christians are better racists than other races? I don’t see Canadian Christians committing genocide against immigrants like many African tribes commit against other tribes (for example, Darfur). Two of the ‘best’ racists were Hitler and Stalin. Both were self-described atheists. So much for your broad generalizations.
I would say being a “bundle of insecurities” is not exactly equal to being a genocidal murderer. Stop using extreme language and making non sequitor statements. You are too intelligent for that. — Garth
Garth, you nailed it again! Great post – this is something I’ve really connected with, something I’ve had quite the experience with.
I recently broke up a business deal with a 50/50 partner because he forwarded me an ingrate anti-immigrant email. I’m going to send you what I wrote right now actually. Use it as an example of what we can do about this perhaps.
I would say being a “bundle of insecurities†is not exactly equal to being a genocidal murderer. Stop using extreme language and making non sequitor statements. You are too intelligent for that. — Garth
Of course they are not of the same magnitude, but the underlying cause is the same. The pinnacle of racism is the desire to eliminate the race that is despised. If one of those racists who send you these racist letters were in the position of unopposed power, what do you think they would do to the races they hate? They would likely have their military exterminate them. And in non-democratic nations such as the ones in Africa, this happens far too frequently. Are white Christians better racists? When you bring it down to the underlying cause, I don’t believe so. We’re all (unfortunately) equal in our ability for hatred and tribalism. When it comes to racism, we should hold everyone to an equal higher standard.
As I recall the teachings of most religions is to live in mutual respect and peace. So get it, others won’t.
Heal thyself and let the others worry about their own fates.
A good example is better than all the verbosity possible.
No one will save the world from itself, but they can do something about their own attitudes.
Judy
I would ask was the last time you had a conversation with someone, such as the woman in the picture. If all you can and will do is preach at me while not trying to engage in some sort of conversation, please do me a favour and go preach somewhere else. I already hold our species in a negative light, and if someone such as yourself is buzzing around my head, well I guess it is time to grab a Bounce sheet, wet it down and wipe my face and arms with it.
of those who accuse conservative-minded people of being intolerant all the while stating that they themselves are tolerant.
or
but when others have a different view they lose their tolerance and scream bigotry and racism.
Two quotes by Sean…we can all play that game..you haven’t addressed any issue here!
Captain George writes…
“42% of all immigrants come to Toronto. Canada is a big country. This kind of concentration leads to big trouble”
I have no reason to question the Captain’s statistics so I shall not. 42% sounds quite accurate to me.
I do feel that immigration would better enrich our country should new arrivals choose to settle in a more geographically diverse manner. Let’s call it spreading the wealth. The question that we need to ask ourselves is… why the high concentration in Toronto?
Is it simply a case of new arrivals already having family members in Toronto and therefore being a self fulfilling prophecy?
Is it a matter of new arrivals having the perception that Toronto is the only place that they will receive adequate support upon arrival and, if so, is that perception an accurate one?
I have, on a number of occasions, heard from friends who are visible minorities, that they feel uncomfortable leaving the GTA. They feel that they stand out and that people look at them funny etc.
Now before the rural folks jump down my throat for being a city boy accusing rural canadians of racism, I am not. I’m simply raising the issue of perception as a talking point.
On the other hand, is it not also understandable, if not justified, for a white Canadian to feel frustrated when they become a minority in the community that they’ve grown up in?
I also hear from people who work in certain fields that immigrants are accepting low wages and poor working conditions to do the same jobs as they do. They see this as a real threat. I do always point out the fact that exploitation is not the fault of the worker and that everyone in this country has the right to make ends meet through legal employment.
I really don’t care that some of the points that I raise may be politically incorrect. We really need to engage in uncensored dialogue regarding these issues. I’d love to hear some feedback.
Andrew McDonnell,
I have, on a number of occasions, heard from friends who are visible minorities, that they feel uncomfortable leaving the GTA. They feel that they stand out and that people look at them funny etc.
I grew up in Regina, hardly a place where there was a lot of visible minorities. My school had an accelerated program that many immigrants took advantage of. My class was about 30% visible minorities (quite high for Regina). All of us were friends. I don’t recall anyone in my high school being prejudiced against immigrants or any of my friends stating that they felt uncomfortable. It was only when I moved to Vancouver that I started to hear the racial slurs from Vancouverites, from every group, immigrants included.
Steve: Guess I hit a nerve. You stated that you felt contempt for individuals who dressed differently or conspicuously. I commented that you must dislike those who don’t comform to your dress codes.
By the way , I taught ESL to immigrants for years and yes, I have had many conversations with women, not unlike the one in the photo.
So, if I am annoying you by suggesting that you are “uncomfortable” with people who dress differently, than I apologize.
of those who accuse conservative-minded people of being intolerant all the while stating that they themselves are tolerant.
or
but when others have a different view they lose their tolerance and scream bigotry and racism.
Two quotes by Sean…we can all play that game..you haven’t addressed any issue here!
By pjw on 07.17.07 5:02 pm
Actually I have already addressed the issue. Garth is wrong. There is no hatred or bigotry in the quotes he provided. If you believe there is, then the issue is why are you and Garth intolerant of those people who wish immigrants join our culture as they would in their own countries?
By Sean P. Hogan on 07.18.07 7:53 am
Are Liberals intolerant or tolerant Sean? LMAO…
Stand back people. Look at what you have in Canada. Help us to continue building this greatest country in the world.
DON’T BRING YOUR PREJUDICES AND RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS HERE. Remember, you are no better than the person next to you !!!!
By smoker on 07.16.07 5:48 pm
I just can’t understand the comments on this “I hate you†web log. Who among you lay first claim to Canada. Are any of you a FIRST NATION person. We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. I don’t care what your colour is. In that respect I’m colour blind.
All you can be asked is show us the same respect you would expect, nay, demand, when we visit your ancestral homeland.
If you claim to be a CANADIAN CITIZEN, then truly be a CANADIAN.
I AM A CANADIAN __________, WHATEVER ELSE. Not the other way around.
I’m a white, Anglophone Christian. I come to your post because I was looking for proof that the Hindi-anthem thing was a hoax, in order to reply (in gentler fashion than the replies you suggested) to the friend who sent it to me. For the record, history shows he could fear much from immigrants, as he is from one of the west coast’s first peoples.
I agree that hate is bad, but please don’t perpetuate it yourself- we are all, Atheist through Zoroastrian, capable of ignorance and worse.
colisse de looser, as-tu autres chose a faire que de rabaisser les francophones osties de criss d’anglais qui se pense supérieure de mes fesses de siboire! Vachier colisse d’ostie de suceux de graines de pédophile coprophage de sa race. Des osties de bullshiteux comme toé. y devrait toutes les bruler tabarnak! pi si tu peux pas lire ceci, j’espere juste que quelqu’un puisse te le traduire, pi qu’ensuite, tu puisse te faire mettre par n’importe que quel fif que t’hai, colisse de grosse tapette!