Stephen Harper greets his ministers at 24 Sussex Drive.
Have I told you how lucky I am lately?
Tonight Esther hauled my sorry butt to one of those business-after-hours Chamber of Commerce events. It was in full swing by the time I got there, about two hours after the big shuffle in Ottawa, with a few hundred people present from a swath of the western GTA, including my riding.
The reception I received was more than cordial. In fact over the last few months, as my liberalism sinks in and yet as I carry on my campaign for conservative economic policies, my constituents have been getting nicer to me. Hardly a day passes now that I don’t hear those three words which make a politician roll over, with his paws in the air: ‘I admire you.’
These people, after all, have been handed a few shocks. My open spat with the prime minister so soon after being elected a Harper Conservative was a shock. Mr. Harper throwing me overboard was a shock. My joining the Lib caucus was a shock. And now I seem to be shocking again by saying the same things I was two years ago.
‘I so admire you for standing firm on your principles,’ a woman form Milton shouted into my ear above the din. ‘I can’t believe all the public shots you’ve taken. Thank you for being yourself.’
This is why I’m one lucky dude. Mr. Harper tried to kill me. It didn’t work. And it’s making me stronger.
Reflecting on the shuffle driving back home tonight, I was grateful not to be a Harperite any more. What the man did today was predictable and disappointing. No new ideas or energy in his cabinet. More regional pandering. An ignoble exit for Gordon O’Connor. Muzzling of ministers. More maniacal control. An imperious lack of accountability. And most of all, a crass and political calculation that the mere optics of new titles would fool us into thinking our concerns are being addressed.
As I said here yesterday, “If tomorrow night, Minister Flaherty is still ensconced atop that white tower on O’Connor, then it will not have been a shuffle, but a harbinger.†And so it is. Mr. Harper may think he is clever at this hour, but he’s made a grievous mistake – blown what was probably his best, last chance to reverse an economic course which will drop him.
The Harper Party has repeatedly attacked its own bases of support. It betrayed seniors by taking their income trusts – folks who consistently have voted blue. It’s alienated the Atlantic provinces with a stinker of a deception – the last deep well of Progressive Conservative support in the country. It has infuriated the Reformers with a porker of a budget that not only buries the holy grail of less government but also sends a river of vote-buying money into Quebec. And it’s turned off those curious and accessible middle-classers who never thought Tories would raise their income taxes or spike their mortgages.
Jim Flaherty symbolizes those mistakes. And they remain. Were I a Harper MP, then it would be expected of me to be selling the shuffle as a good news event at the Chamber muncherama hours later. I’d be required to lie to my constituents, telling them income trusts were imperiling the economy, that income taxes haven’t actually risen or that government spending is under control.
If I were a Harper Conservative backbencher, or even a minister, I would not be writing these words. I wouldn’t be planning an all-party forum on new tax policy initiatives this fall. I wouldn’t be about to embark on a 10-city speaking tour in Western Canada. Most of all, I’d be prevented from being truthful with the people who sent me to Ottawa, however they voted.
I wouldn’t be part of a team confident enough to embrace an MP who has goals or ideas and the will to pursue them. I’d be dreading the five Town Hall meetings I have in Halton next week, instead of relishing them. Simply put, I would not be an MP, I’d be one of Mr. Harper’s shills.
How lucky can you get?
210 comments ↓
10 Western cities???? is any one of them on Vancouver Island??
(I hope, I hope, I hope.)
North of Naniamo PLEASE!
The schedule will be published here quite shortly. The tour begins September 4th. Your enthusiasm is inspiring. — Garth
Tour?
Schedule?
I have a couple of questions for you re new tax policy initiatives.
1. Your tax policies always seem to be more consistent with Conservative policies than Liberal ones. Has the Liberal party endorsed your ideas?
2. Why are you taking these ideas on a 10-day tour of WESTERN Canada? Is it because these ideas will better sell in traditional Conservative territory?
(1) I’m working on it. (2) You gotta start somewhere, right? — Garth
btw
You make your own luck.
Whats your take on the new heritage minister?
http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/1fd7df5f-ce32-4170-8bbe-95bbc214da27/oconnor0814_210.jpg?size=l
“Well now, isn’t that a pretty penny!”
PMSH … “Great stuff, Gordon, you’re a natural for the Revenue portfolio.”
Well said Garth. I had hope Harper would dump Flaherty and send a signal that he will change course back to the Conservative economic values I voted for. I too also thought he would try to bail out from Flaherty’s ill-thought tax policy’s and try to improve his prospects in the polls. But for some reason, Harper just does not get it. You can’t betray your supporters to the tune of $25 billion and expect them to get over it. The anger not only continues over Income Trusts, it grows and we watch Canadian companies being picked off through LBO’s.
The other thing this tells me is that this was not Flaherty’s Tax Fairness Plan, it most likely came from Harper’s office and Flaherty was the ambulance chasing lawyer chosen to deliver the goods.
Flaherty is a muzzled mad dog just as the rest of them are.
You want to know why Harper kept both midgets (Flaherty and Lunn). They both don’t have to bend over to kiss Harper’s butt. Also makes him feel like a big man.
Garth,
Is John McCullum coming with you? afterall, he is the finance critic.
I turn left at Winnipeg to find Vancouver, right? — Garth
When an any individual stands tall on a set of honest values and principles in defence of those who wish to project their ill conceived plans via the route of deception and malicious attacks that person is worthy of public office at a high level. Garth you have proved to be worthy of such respect in our time of need and change in Canada. Bon Chance/ Good Luck and have a safe trip.
Peter MacKay finally achieves a macho profile…Where he can PROVE Canada is a PLAYER on the world scene!
http://deadder.net/download/hirez0607/d607291r.jpg
http://deadder.net/download/hirez0609/d609122r.jpg
First, Peter MacKay, Canadians would like to know when/where the 125 Leopard II’s are going to be deployed. When will they arrive at Wainright for commissioning … When will they be deployed to attack Saskatoon/Regina …
Will Premier Calvert be imprisoned …
viz “Ablonczy said we didn’t mention that we would not cap resource revenues as part of equalization. Therefore, we assume Premier Calvert goes directly to jail and is refused the $200 at GO.
Examine, in depth, the commissioning plans for the C-17’s along with the planned flights for the first 6 months.
Have those assignments completed and on my desk by noon, Peter.
I cannot comment on your constituents that they have said or written to you, however, I can comment on your luck.
It is probably best that you did get the boot from Harper’s flock of sheep. As brutal a comparison that is, it is really the only one I can see. No doubt the colour black, metaphorically speaking, stuck out too much for that to be tlerated. Or perhaps it was the blue tint to your wool that was inexcuseable and the bland colour of has to be maintained.
So, with you able to speak on matters you were unable to before, perhaps the road to heaven is paved through hell.
I do wonder about what Mr Casey will do now that he is cut loose from the CPC party. Did you get any form of a barometre reading from the other non cabinet MPs from the Maritimes on Mr Casey’s effect on their job at all? I am curious what the MPs said to their spouses.
What are your tax policy ideas?
No Conservatives at this meeting, why is that not a surprise!
Media advisory – North American opposition to debate SPP at public forum
OTTAWA, Aug. 14 /CNW Telbec/ – On the eve of the Leader’s Summit in Montebello, the Council of Canadians is bringing together activists, academics and politicians from across the continent to discuss concerns about the impacts of the Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP) on the public interest, the environment and human rights. The forum will also include a political panel where Canada’s opposition parties-the Liberal Party, the New Democratic Party, the Bloc Québécois and the Green Party-will debate the SPP. Conservative MPs have declined an invitation to participate in the debate.
WHO:
Key speakers:
Maude Barlow, National Chairperson, The Council of Canadians
Gustavo Iruegas, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Legitimate Government of Mexico
Michèle Asselin, Fédération des femmes du Québec / RQIC
Michael Byers, author, Intent for a Nation: What is Canada for?
Ann Wright, retired U.S. Army colonel and anti-war activist
WHEN:
Sunday August 19
4:00 p.m – 6:30 pm
WHERE:
Marion Hall, 140 Louis Pasteur, University of Ottawa
The Council of Canadians is organizing the forum with the collaboration of the Canadian Labour Congress, the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), Common Frontiers, the Communications, Energy & Paperworkers Union of Canada (CEP), The National Union of Public and General Employees (NUPGE), the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC), Canadian Union of Postal Workers, the Canadian Autoworkers Union (CAW) and le Réseau québécois sur l’intégration continentale (RQIC).
For further information: Meera Karunananthan, Media Officer: (613) 233-4487 ext. 234, cell: (613) 795-8685, meera@canadians.orgl; http://www.integratethis.ca
Hi Garth….a Western tour? I think this is a fantastic idea! I’ll be looking forward to how you are received out there. Most people assume that large parts of Western Canada are untouchable in terms of voting something other than Conservative. Hopefully you can help voters in Western Canada see that they do have viable options other than the Conservatives.
It was interesting to see the lastest SES poll. Conservative support in Western Canada is still growing, but the Liberals have made some strides in the key battleground of Ontario and also in Atlantic Canada. Dion’s rating as ‘best prime minister’ still trails Harper but is beginning to move up. He is now only 8 points behind Harper at 23 compared to Harper at 31 (down 2 points). It is disheartening to see the Conservatives up at 36 points, but a look at regional numbers shows growth primarily in Western Canada, which given the current make up of the House of Commons would not translate in many additional seats, if any, for Harper. The growth of the Liberals in Ontario would create quite a few additional seats for Dion’s Liberals.
We can only hope the days of this ‘reform-in-disguise’ government will be ending soon!
Like an idiot – I watched the whole thing, switching back and forth from one station to another. Mike Duffy was a joke – couldn’t wait for his wink, wink, nudge, nudge garbage – 3 times at least indirect attack of Liberals. I used to like Duffy – but he’s now pitiful. Keeps saying how long he’s been in business – news for your Mike Duffy,no one cares. Then CPAC which is the most “un-partisan” of them all – Tim Powers resorting to old rhetoric and sarcasm. It used to work Powers but now you’re looking like a fool with nothing to say because, really, there is nothing to say – same old same old.
All the hype for nothing, absolutely nothing. When asked about recalls of Chinese made products – Harper looked bored and seemed quite unconcerned – hey Harper do you not care about the safety of the kids? Oh, the question was off-topic and probably annoying.
In other words folks, more of the same -yawn – vote buying in Quebec and helping Alberta/industry/Prentice – uh huh, the rest of us don’t matter.
Garth,
I will say it as well ‘I admire you!’ You have stood tall as a man, an MP, and a human being, not because of the political party you are, or are not afilliated with. Keep standing because eventually Harper and his crew of puppets will have to Look UP!
Have a good day! Busy here.
Will we all start thinking this way? Highest bidder will get my vote, or are we already? I certainly hope not, but it seems to be a distinct possibility where integrity has evaporated into stench.
Everybody bought a one way ticket.
No going back now. Keeping Flaherty and juxtaposing inexperienced Ministers was a short term repair of the CRAP gyrostabilizer heading out into the Atlantic with no Accord.
Wonder how the Cons got the “old Duff” to tout the Reform/Alliance on CTV?
Was he ordered to lean right at every opportunity by the upper brass?
Would that be Senator Duffy you’re speaking about? — Garth
Mike Duffy is on the same plain as Don Cherry…an entertaining character for those in need of such.
WHO:
Key speakers:
Maude Barlow, National Chairperson, The Council of Canadians
Gustavo Iruegas, Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Legitimate Government of Mexico
Michèle Asselin, Fédération des femmes du Québec / RQIC
Michael Byers, author, Intent for a Nation: What is Canada for?
Ann Wright, retired U.S. Army colonel and anti-war activist
WHEN:
Sunday August 19
4:00 p.m – 6:30 pm
Only 2 and one half hours. Too bad it’s not televised. Hope there will be some media coverage at least. But, that’s probably wishful thinking.
I find it funny that McKay has been actually demoted (from For. Affairs to Defence), and now he’s in an even more intractible situation.
If anybody watches the Maritime News, there are frequent stories of Maritimers dying in Afghanistan.
Now, the vocabulary around the war is changing. They’re not longer about ‘defeating the Taliban’, but are taking the Bush 2004 line of “we’ll stand down when the Afghan’s stand up”
The whole thing is as sad and funny as hell.
Jock – your comment “You want to know why Harper kept both midgets” is somewhat insulting to people with vertical issues. Want to reconsider your ignorant use of the word?
Is our Tax Policy on ice?
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070815.wreynolds0815/GIStory/
Maybe Mackay is being set up.
It wouldn’t surprise me.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2007/08/15/peter-mackay.html
Only 2 and one half hours. Too bad it’s not televised. Hope there will be some media coverage at least. But, that’s probably wishful thinking.
By kpn on 08.15.07 8:47 am
You might send an e mail to CPAC. I agree with other observers, they are the most objective of the lot in terms of coverage.
Hi Garth, quick question for ya.
If you had not gotten the boot, would you have considered quitting to become an independent or would you still be there, today, bleating at command like the rest of the CPC sheep?
Curious,
-R
B-a-a-a-a-a-d vibes from that sheepish question. Actually I’d have done nothing differently – fight from within, for what I believe. — Garth
For anyone who wants to know what “harbinger” means, visit:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harbinger
‘Mike Duffy was a joke’ By slg on 08.15.07 8:12 am
Here Here!!
‘Would that be Senator Duffy you’re speaking about? — Garth’
Bloody sad ain’t it?
No public thrashing for Jim Flaherty, just the schoolyard cold shoulder treatment of our New Finance Minister Lite.
Does this mean that the Prime Minister stands behind the Finance Minister a full 50%?
From CTV: “Jim Flaherty had kept his post as finance minister, despite enduring a backlash for the government’s decision to tax income trusts — essentially breaking an earlier campaign promise.
But Flaherty will no longer chair the cabinet committee on economic affairs, and has lost his position as vice chair of the treasury board. Insiders said that move signals displeasure with his political handling of the income trust issue.â€
Thought for the day on the SPP.
[on Canada and the US] We’re bigger, and we’re on top. If this was prison, they would be our bitch.
Is that honestly a photo of steve? He’s absolutely gargantuan!
Maybe slow down that bbq circuit, or opt for a salad, just a sprinkle of lemon juice.
I think steve has given petey enough rope to hang himself, personally. The defense portfolio is tough, and petey isn’t really a bright light.
And on the CC/GW issue, the last current that drives our climate has been mapped.
Ocean’s ‘missing link’ discovered
Have a good day folks.
They both don’t have to bend over to kiss Harper’s butt. Also makes him feel like a big man.
By Jock on 08.15.07 2:45 am
I’m feeling rather ’short’ today myself.
I’m still a big draw on the Champs Elysées. I know you intended no offence.
I’m so happy to hear you’re coming out
West. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the lower mainland. Can’t wait to see you, Garth!
A talking point for your western tour:
Why the Income Trust Betrayal is the worst kind of broken promise.
* Most promises involve whole populations: “I will not raise taxes†is said during the campaign and then when the promise is broken, the consequences apply to many or most of the people. Not a good thing, perhaps but at least a single group is not disadvantaged.
* Harper solemnly made the I.T. promise in reaction to a trial balloon that the finance dept. (under the Liberals) had floated. It was very specific and meant that a specific, large group of people kept their Income Trust stock and/or bought more and very likely earned Harper the extra votes to squeak into power.
The broken promise singled this group out for huge punishment. Hence the uniquely evil character of this betrayal. (It surely trumps the sponsorship scandal … but I doubt others are ready to hear that.)
Garth, you may already have said something like this (and likely said it better) ……
I hope you and your colleagues will keep reminding us of this and perhaps produce a 30 second TV ad showing the true mendacity of the Harper regime.
Pyotr – I think you have a great idea here. We should all email – CTV/Duffy – CBC (they’re not as bad as Duffy) and CPAC and indicate that we have come to the conclusion, after watching all three, that we will not watch CPAC only as they are the only true non-partisans.
Let’s do it. Maybe the media will get the message that we want “honest” coverage and not biased – for any party.
An ignoble exit for Gordon O’Connor.
There was no “noble” exit for O’Connor – the man had become a political liability.
re.Garth Tour 07
I will drive to any place in Saskatchewan or B.C. to attend your town hall meeting. I live in Alberta so I don’t see the point of you speaking here, there is something in the air that causes the long term residents to not think straight, and I predict poor behaviour as there will be those wish you and those of us who sometimes agree with you physical harm! There was a similar problem in Australia, proven to be caused by pollution from the petroleum sector!
And yet more reality is rising to be felt as the world’s markets realize where the ceiling is, and the balloon is already leaking…will it explode?
Loonie falls again as new credit problem emerges
What’s the problem? Same one they had in 1929…Investing using credit not real capital.
woes linked to U.S. junk mortgages and to huge volumes of commercial IOUs based on anything from car loans to credit card payments.
Garth, are you going to be looking at possible venues for the LPC’s 2008 National Convention ? The Calgary Saddledome that hosted the 1990 Convention where Chretien beat Martin, might be available.
Here’s what your LPC Constitution says in Section 16(3)
The National Executive is obliged to insure that the Liberal Party shall assemble in national convention no later than the second anniversary of the preceeding national convention …
Mike Duffy is on the same plain as Don Cherry…an entertaining character for those in need of such.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.15.07 8:46 am
————–
How very true that is. I noticed last year before his heart surgery that Mike seemed to using his show as a Conservative cheering squad. I to used to admire the man immensely, but over the course of the past year I have lost all respect for him.
Sorry Mike, I feel bad for you with your surgery. I have had Open Heart surgery my self and decided to retire a couple of years after it. Maybe you should be thinking of the same thing. Retiring that is.
Oh and I forgot to say looking forward to hearing you in Winnipeg Garth if you stop here before you make your “Left” turn.
After looking further into the SPP issue I am coming to a conclusion that those sounding the alarm are doing so largely as a result of the secrecy and recognition of how Nafta has played out in key sectors. As well as Bush Gov. policies and mistrust associated with them.
These are most definitely key concerns when any government appears to be negotiating issues so key to the Nations future. At the same time, we must realize that negotiations of this kind are an ongoing part of the process and have been the job of government and industry. Mulroney excluded the public from this with his majority government. What makes SPP different, is the scope of issues being put forward all at once. Now remember, any good negotiator has key issues he wants to gain on, a number of the other items included may simply be diversionary. Liken it to a Lawsuit where the goal is to get $250,000. Rule of thumb has been ask for at least $750,000.
I think Mr. Bush and folks may find that by asking for $10 million, they may stall their own efforts. We should bear in mind that this looks a lot like a Republican Christmas wish list and is not necessarily what Canadian negotiators will agree to. I guess the big question will be whether the upcoming conference between the three leaders will represent the citizen’s interests or the personal gain of those involved. Unfortunately so many Canadians are so apathetic or so deeply in the hole financially, the deed may be long done before they clue in to what happened.
Now, as to Mr. Turner, perhaps he can shed light on Nafta, and reasons given / justifications to caucus when he was a sitting member of Mr. Mulroney’s Gov.
It’s all well and good to posture at this point Garth, but what about it? What was the rational given and how is it your one-time caucus colleagues agreed to support it, including yourself? Remember your comments a few posts back, “Actually I’d have done nothing differently – fight from within, for what I believe. — Garth ”
The claim Canada has exported 10 times more goods to the US since Nafta could be explained once again by economics 101, the 60 to 65 cent dollar. All this prosperity to set us up for SPP and NAU????
It’s all well and good to give the faithful followers here on the blog a scratch behind the ears, and make reference to how you enjoy the same, but how about getting to the meat of some things? It is not those who require a nice pat on the head occasionally who are going to contribute to your outsourcing for worthwhile ideas, it’s the Mavericks and thinkers who can be of assistance. Or is it as some profess, merely a means to vent / attack? I hope not.
It is not so much through the use of character assassination that useful goals can be achieved; it is through the “transparent†presentation of logical alternatives.
When I consider Mr. Dion’s and the Lib party’s silence on SPP and NAU, a number of things come to mind. Firstly, I would never underestimate the abilities of the Lib party’s strategists. Secondly, I ponder if the silence in fact represents fear / astuteness as to tip one’s hand too soon could bring on the wrath of great forces from south of the border and beyond. Alternatively, could it be concern over future relations with America if Libs formed a Gov.? Or is it simply a case of if Harper is in power, his group receives the gains from the pacts as opposed to Dion’s group. Simply put, which group of wealthy gets the goodies?
I also ponder if Dion may be lying low until a Dem Gov. is elected in the US?
Mr. Turner, we know you won’t be receiving goodies from the Con. Group, so is it your goal to be in the loop if the Lib ship comes in?
If you post this, and provide answers, which I doubt, you will have advanced your standing, if not I will have some of the answers to the questions above.
I’m still waiting for an answer on your tax policy ideas too.
You may remember my reference in an earlier post to growing older, and being disparaged by the fact that there are now more questions than answers.
Wonder how the Cons got the “old Duff†to tout the Reform/Alliance on CTV?
Was he ordered to lean right at every opportunity by the upper brass?
Would that be Senator Duffy you’re speaking about? — Garth
By Judy on 08.15.07 8:33 am
Wow! I don’t know of any politicians who would say this of Mike Duffy. I wonder Garth, when he is criticizing the government, is he still up for the senator-ship? I don’t think Mr. Duffy deserved that comment. He can’t help it when the Liberals screw up. Is he in your mind non-partisan only when he says how wonderful Liberals are? L
Duff is a legend on the Hill and enjoys a level of respect equal to that of a member of the red chamber. What else could I possibly have meant? — Garth
If that is really the PM in the picture, he looks much thinner with his jacket buttoned then open. Doesn’t he have an entouage of stylists to point that out to him?
Well Shiver me timbers, Canadians have caught onto Mike Duffy wants to be a Senator so bad he will do “He who’s name is not to be mentioned” bidding!
Steve Murphy CTV Halifax is his #1 fan, Duffy was on the show for his first appearance after his heart trouble to which Want-a-be Senator Duffy stated, nothting wrong with health care hey I went right through like a flash, all this talk about waiting is wrong, Steve Murphy never even questioned him, fully knowing many have waited and are waiting!
Speaking of elected Senators Garth, has that new cowboy elected Senator been asked to comment on PMSH’s appointment of a non accountable Senator made who then turned into a non accountable minister spending our money hand over fist?
Garth,you are one BITTER man!!!!!
Almost correct. Actually I am “better” than I was as a Harper bot. — Garth
“… Actually I’d have done nothing differently – fight from within, for what I believe.”
By Garth on 08.15.07 9:19 am
—-
… and for your constituents … right?
I work for them, not a party. — Garth
Oops…The link did not make it. Here it is Ocean’s ‘missing link’ discovered
CANADA SHIFTS WRONG MINISTERS IN BID TO EASE AFGHAN WOES
ARTICLE
Harper’s Mistake: It’s The Karzai Regime That’s Broken:
http://www.skyreporter.com/
Rather shocking and important news Bob Rae to undergo heart surgery, and may he be healed completely. anuerisms are nothing to mes with. Thankfully things are quiet for a while on the Hill.
Garth, please send my best wishes for a speedy recovery to Bob. He is a gentleman.
How the mighty have fallen ! I just caught a replay of CTV’s Canada AM, where Shamus interviewed Dion and Layton at the same time !
Talk about precedent-setting optics. CTV gives these two equal billing, and in fact shows Layton first on the screen !
Dion is a fool to let CTV get away with presenting him as being on equal footing as Layton. Definitely an erosion of Dion’s stature.
Is the Bloc crazy?
Quebec Inuit will control 1/3 of Quebec and the separatists want that?
http://www.bloc.org/archivage/com_lemaylevesque_declaration_autochtones_anglais070809.pdf
Sometimes you people just make such moronic statements.
Saying Duffy is lobbying for a Senate appointment is about as intelligent as claiming George Strombolopolous is hoping for a return of a Liberal Government so he can be appointed the next Governor General.
If you feel that Duffy has a bias then stop buying products from the advertisers on his show. And let them know you’re doing it.
But to beak off like you are about Duffy is quite retarded. I find Duffy to be quite even handed. He criticizes all parties when required and he tries to give equal airtime to the 3 main national parties. He is not a cheerleader for the Conservative Party.
Hell, if he was he’d never have Gerard Kenedy on his show. During segments where Kenedy is on a panel he hogs the airtime and doesn’t let anyone else get a word in edgewise (Duffy included).
The Liberal pre election campaign:
Speak no evile, See no evil, Hear no evil.
I just heard on the news at noon that Bob Rae is to undergo heart surgery.
Best wishes to him.
I guess it’s good now that there haven’t been by-election dates set in Ontario after all.
“Maybe Mackay is being set up.”
Of course he was. Everybody – especially Harper – knows that that airhead will flop in Defence. I’ll bet anybody Garth’s next bottle of Hair Colour for Men that most of the Defence related questions will be handled by Harper, Hillier, Bernier, and even, O’Connor. Mackay will be up for all the detainee abuse questions and will probably be the setup guy for announcing Canada’s withdrawl from Afghanistan.
Prentice was demoted too. It is a safe bet that Strahl gets to be Chair of the Operations Committee now, and Ablonczy will slowly take over Industry.
With the exception of the Oda-Verner switch, this was not a shuffle. This was Harper neutralizing his political enemies in case his numbers don’t rise or he fails to improve the seat count in the next election.
Pyotr – I think you have a great idea here. We should all email – CTV/Duffy – CBC (they’re not as bad as Duffy) and CPAC and indicate that we have come to the conclusion, after watching all three, that we will not watch CPAC only as they are the only true non-partisans.
Let’s do it. Maybe the media will get the message that we want “honest†coverage and not biased – for any party.
By slg on 08.15.07 10:46 am
Surely you can’t believe that CTV is worse than the CBC. The CBC is not known by any stretch of the imagination of being fair and balanced. If you don’t like the CTV coverage, you should just change the channel, after all, they are a private company.
However, the CBC is not, therefore, we should all hold them to account as we are paying for them.
He is more of an embarrassment. No serious person will watch that show over Newman/CBC (at 5) or Van Dusen/CPAC (at 8). My guess is that it gets a 0.02 – 0.05 rating on good days at the 5 p.m. slot.
Is the Bloc crazy?
By Captain George on 08.15.07 12:22 pm
Are they French?
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 12:18 pm
Yes, humility and honour have no place in Canadian politics. Straining at the Gnat a tad I think.
Dion could be last, and still come out ahead because he says something of substance. Wise people always let the fools go first.
Had it been Harper I doubt anyone else would have appeared with him, because it would be hard to find a bigger fool.
Truly, ‘The Luck of the Draw!’
Dion is a fool to let CTV get away with presenting him as being on equal footing as Layton. Definitely an erosion of Dion’s stature.
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 12:18 pm
Yes, it would be a much better idea to hide from the press…a la Harper!
You may remember my reference in an earlier post to growing older, and being disparaged by the fact that there are now more questions than answers.
By Greg on 08.15.07 11:24 am
Greg, pls remmeber that to unveil a platform prior to the writ being dropped would be a sily move for any party in opposition. They will, I am sure, let us know prior to the vote. As for Garth’s position, he has many times on her let us know what he stands for. I don’t always agree with him but he is the best MP we will hope to have in Halton. The fact that he is a Liberal is of little concern to me. I voted for him last time and will do so again. The only qualification I make to that is if we have a competent independent, which i still believe Garth is…
Have patience me boy!!
Just a good off topic rant that really reflects the frustrations of a lot of people at government in general
What we really want
by DREW HAYDEN TAYLOR** – Tuesday, July 24, 2007
Editorial – On June 29, the Natives were restless. It was a day of protest, or so the Assembly of First Nations urged.
Time for Aboriginals of Canada to unite: Raise your fists to the sky and yell out “We’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it anymore.” Nobody really knew what was going to happen – there could be road blocks, train routes compromised, taxes hiked way up on Native cigarettes, anything and everything was possible.
With things still standoffish in Caledonia, and that little flare up a few months ago in Tyendinaga, the AFN thought the time was right for Aboriginal people to band together collectively and let the citizens of Canada, and their various governments (in particular, a blind Prime Minister Harper and his myopic Conservatives) know that well . . .it’s not easy being red.
This October will mark the 515th anniversary of the introduction of illegal immigration into North America – 510 years in Canada. In that time, the First Nations of Canada have, through no fault of their own, managed to accrue a substantial plethora of grievances. Here are but a few that were discussed in private*:
WE DEMAND that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) initiate a campaign informing the Canadian public that the majority of Native people do indeed pay taxes. Only those who live and work directly on the Reserve are exempt. Trust me. I, my bookkeeper and my accountant have done the research. The next time someone says” “You Native people don’t pay any taxes,” ask where their cottage is and a land claim form will be issued.
WE DEMAND, on a similar note, something be done about the belief that Canada’s First Nations get everything for free. This is true only if you count the bad water in Kashechewan, illnesses from black mold in inadequate housing, linguistic genocide, diabetes, and rampant sexual abuse. Trust me, we’ve paid for all this – in many ways. I’ve heard the term “give until it hurts”, but this is ridiculous.
WE DEMAND the federal government embrace the radical concept of appointing a Native person as the Minister of the Department of Indian Affairs. We humbly ask: Isn’t the Attorney General usually a lawyer? Isn’t the Minister for the Status of Women usually a woman? Isn’t the Minister of Defense usually defensive?
WE DEMAND that filmmakers of any nationality be stopped from using flute music on the soundtrack of any and all documentaries about Native people. And no more feathers either. And dreamcatchers. In movies too.
WE DEMAND somebody do something about the persistent, offensive and inaccurate stereotype about all Native people having a drinking problem. Personally, it’s been about three years since I had my last mimosa.
WE DEMAND that Lorne Cardinal get his own spin-off series from Corner Gas.
WE DEMAND there be classes for warriors on how to dress for protests and court. Somebody should explain to them the true function of camouflage and the fact that in a court of law, camouflage’s intended effect is limited due to a lack of substantial vegetation.
WE DEMAND all commercials advertising that Lakota medicine be pulled. Immediately.
WE DEMAND the Assembly of First Nations explain what it actually does. Other than call for days of protests.
WE DEMAND the police of this country stop shooting, assaulting and otherwise abusing the civil rights of Native people. It’s for their own benefit. There are substantially more Native people in this country then police. And per capita, Native people have more guns then the police.
WE DEMAND the federal government apologize to survivors for over half a century of abuse at the hands (and other parts of the body) of residential schools. There are some things children should not learn in school.
(*None of these demands were authorized by the Assembly of First Nations, Lakotas, warriors or Lorne Cardinal.)
**Drew Hayden Taylor is an award-winning Ojibwa playwright and author from the Curve Lake First Nations.
Gee, I hope Harper did the kind of background checks on his Ministers that Chretien obviously didn’t do with his … Adscam’s Guite says he was simply following orders
In his response to the $30-million suit, Guite alleges that even when he questioned or recommended that certain contracts not be awarded, he was told “it is the prime minister’s budget and we decide on the events, how much to allocate in funds and what agency will manage the event.
“In many cases,” the statement says, “sponsorships were refused at the bureaucratic level but reversed at the political level.”
Guite lays the blame for the scandal directly on his higher-ups — former minister of public works Alfonso Gagliano and former prime minister Jean Chretien. He says the suit against him should be dropped and those in power at the time should be sued instead.
“Garth,you are one BITTER man!!!!!”
No do you think? Really? I find Garth to be unpartisan, honest, and very Liberal……I mean is one bitter who writes 300 nonsensical critical posts in a row? Come on now……mind you, have you read the posts of his disciples? Kinda helps to explain things……..
Sad to see Garth go from the elite successful Conservative world to the mindless simpletons of the left…….cheers
Garth,you are one BITTER man!!!!!
Almost correct. Actually I am “better†than I was as a Harper bot. — Garth
By david on 08.15.07 11:48 am
Oooooo, I love to dance a little side step..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mNDHTfdn1A
The Artful Dodger…Lol
Paul Martin originally said that Adscam was the work of ‘rogue bureaucrats’. Now, one of those rogue bureaucrats suggests he was just following orders.
I thouhgt there was honor among thieves ?
BTW, how is Dion going to finesse all this ?
By pjw on 08.15.07 1:34 pm
Thanks PJ but I would like to hear from Mr. Turner as I haven’t already heard the answers and wonder if all the above questions have been answered? As far as tipping the hand, some indication would be of value to many.
Would that be Senator Duffy you’re speaking about? — Garth
Duff is a legend on the Hill and enjoys a level of respect equal to that of a member of the red chamber. What else could I possibly have meant? — Garth
In context, you were implying that Duffy was not impartial in his newscasts because he was offered a Senate seat by the Conservative gov’t.
I would rather have Duffy in the Senate than some of the trash the Liberals have appointed.
I implied no such thing. — Garth
Peter MacKay in Defence! Where did he serve? What rank did he attain? After all wasn’t it PMSH tell Stephane Dion he had no right to question Defence minister O’Connor because he hadn’t served in the military. So now we don’t have a military man in the position anymore does that mean the opposition have question Peter MacKay
Correction Can question Peter MacKay
Guite lays the blame for the scandal directly on his higher-ups — former minister of public works Alfonso Gagliano and former prime minister Jean Chretien. He says the suit against him should be dropped and those in power at the time should be sued instead.
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 1:37 pm
———————-
Oh for Gods sakes Calgary Junkie give it a rest already. Of course Guite is going to do and say anything he can to deflect all responsibility away from himself. Kind of reminds me of a certain Prime Minister that is currently sitting in Ottawa at the moment.
BTW, why should Dion finesse anything? Is this the best you Conservatives can still come up with, crap that went on 14 yrs. ago by party bureaucrats?
In context, you were implying that Duffy was not impartial in his newscasts because he was offered a Senate seat by the Conservative gov’t.
I would rather have Duffy in the Senate than some of the trash the Liberals have appointed.
I implied no such thing. — Garth
By GGF on 08.15.07 2:21 pm
Okay Garth, if you didn’t imply it, why call Duffy, Senator Duffy? Did he get appointed and somehow you’ve scooped the media here?
By pjw on 08.15.07 1:34 pm
Thanks PJ but I would like to hear from Mr. Turner as I haven’t already heard the answers and wonder if all the above questions have been answered? As far as tipping the hand, some indication would be of value to many.
By Greg on 08.15.07 2:06 pm
I am very curious myself but know it would be political suicide to let the cat out of the bag at this point…the element of surprise is always a good thing. I know we will be told before we get to make the X on the ballot.
elite successful Conservative world !
John G.
That says it all man, that’s is exactly what you CPC people think and the rest of us are just minions to be scoffed at..thanks for confirming what we all knew all along. LMAO….please don’t call yourselves conservatives, you are anything but!
Guite lays the blame for the scandal directly on his higher-ups — former minister of public works Alfonso Gagliano and former prime minister Jean Chretien. He says the suit against him should be dropped and those in power at the time should be sued instead.
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 1:37 pm
Shouldn’t be too hard to prove, there is a paper trail for all of this I am sure, after all, we don’t want to take anyone’s word for it, do we? And if Mr. Guite is telling the truth, and it is proven, then I say put Jean in the can for many many years. I don’t think he plans on running for office again, so what Dion has to do with this, I have no idea. But I am sure you will try your best to stick him with it. Good luck, mon ami…
With all comments about the war in Afganistan can Garth or anyone else please tell us what is Dions, Or the Liberals Policy on Afganistan?
David
Randy: Well Dion sat at that cabinet table. So surely he has some idea about what Guite is talking about ?
The media is mostly letting Dion off the hook so far. But Layton and Duceppe won’t be so kind. Harper is right to take the high road, simply reminding voters they now have a clean government.
Anyway, the ‘finessing’ requirements will come during the leadership debates. Duceppe’s questions to Martin re which 12 Quebec ridings got the sponsorship cash still haven’t been answered.
“Peter MacKay in Defence! Where did he serve? What rank did he attain? After all wasn’t it PMSH tell Stephane Dion he had no right to question Defence minister O’Connor because he hadn’t served in the military.” – Judy Roberts at 2:22 PM
Thanks for reminding us of a good point, Judy. I had forgotten that Harper had disqualied himself from questioning O’Connor’s actions or judgment as MND.
Isn’t Canadian politics grand? Say anything you want to in the House, as long as it slags the other guy. Just like in the good old days in the sandbox.
“Duff is a legend on the Hill and enjoys a level of respect equal to that of a member of the red chamber. What else could I possibly have meant”? — Garth
For GGF and Sean P Hogan and anyone else whose mouse is broken I have scrolled up and copied the explanation for all to see. Hope this helps, but if you can still not comprehend the words I am lost on how to help.
It is extremely amusing to sit here and read how some are taking a very innocent statement about Mr. Duffy and twisting it to try and demonstrate a totally different intent.
Those making statements indicating it was either an insult or is proof of some other evil, are certainly showing a lot of themselves.
Heck, I almost feel sorry for them. Except everytime I try to be sombre I break out laughing again…
Thanks for the chuckle. It’s Wednesday, and I needed that.
By pjw on 08.15.07 2:50 pm
Well there are lot’s more questions than just that one PJ, and as far as waiting until X box time, too late in my view.
I have yet to see leader qualities in Dion and as I have clearly stated previously, more same old is not what I want.
I want decisiveness and real issues dealt with. I believe we have already past the fulcrum point but that it may not be too late to catch our balance.
I have spent too long waiting for the great hope, and now I am going to full tilt to flush one out. Or go down trying. Lol
I actually have ideas, not just rhetoric and comic relief in my arsenal and am going to bestow them when and where I think they may be heard, and do some good. I understand holding the cards close to the chest too.
We get calls all the time to support the Conservative Party as an election ‘could be imminent’… they get told that we are not happy with their tax policies since forming government although we are not among those who lost their shirts in the Income Trust debacle, we do not see tax advantages that should be on the table and should have already been implemented. What they planned and carried out so far was good, as far as it went. It did not go far enough for tax relief and their policies since, with higher interest rates and the high dollar are hurting those who need it most..that being those of us who are the backbone of the economy, the middle class, especially small business and the mfg. sector.
What about this is over the heads of the government, now they ARE the government.
It seems to me that Garth’s tossing was a harbinger of bad and ill-advised tax policies that have not done us a lot of good. Garth should have been finance minister from the outset and maybe the Conservative base would be larger and they would actually be looking at a majority. They may still get it and that might be better than a return to the liberals and that idiot Dion… but we are not as avid supporters as we once were and I do not think we are alone in our thinking.
Dave wrote.
>With all comments about the war in >Afghanistan can Garth or anyone else >please tell us what is Dions, Or the >Liberals Policy on Afghanistan?
Surprisingly, if you believe what Dion is saying, indicates their policy is very similar to that of the Conservatives. Dion’s latest comment was yesterday when he said they want Canada’s combat role to end in Feb 2009. The key word here is “Combat”. This tells me that they would go along with a non combat role for our military after 2009. In fact I don’t recall the Liberals ever saying that Canada should withdrawal completely from Afghanistan but rather just the combat role which is exactly what Harper has been saying the last few months.
What I see coming down in the house is that the Conservatives and Liberals will unite and vote to continue the non combat Canadian role in Afghanistan beyond 2009.
What do you think Garth? Do you see this file going the way that I described.
With all comments about the war in Afganistan can Garth or anyone else please tell us what is Dions, Or the Liberals Policy on Afganistan?
David
By David on 08.15.07 3:09 pm
I would hope that ALL the political parties will take a position of supporting the efforts in Afghanistan until such time as we’ve accomplished what we’ve set out to accomplish.
Sure. we’re going to lose some wonderful young men and women, but such is the role of the Armed Forces and the job they do. They are all heroes in my book and I appreciate the sacrifices they make for us all.
To those that are politicizing the issue, shame on you.
Here’s a challenge…. If you are in the Toronto area in the near future, stop into the Canadian National Exhibition and visit the Armed Forces display. Shd be easy to find as it is about as large as a football field. Talk to the members of the armed forces. Give them YOUR OPINIONS and ask for theirs. Explain to THEM why you want to quit Afghanistan and effectively make all the deaths so far for naught. They know their roles better than any of us, and that includes the politicians. Most of whom don’t have the backbone to stand up to their respective leaders, let alone a combatant armed to the teeth.
If you actually do that, I’d be curious to here from you after the fact and see if your opinion has changed.
It’s a cold hard fact that we will only have peace and stability if we are willing to fight for it. And that means people will die. I am extremely happy the bleeding hearts, anti war types are NOT running the country. For if the were, we’d be in a truly sad state.
My opinion – Leave the Armed Forces there until the job is done. However, we should provide them with EVERYTHING THEY NEED to do the job properly. Our sacrifice of $$ (regardless of the amount) is a pittance compared to the sacrifice they voluntarily make.
Another pair of Luck of The Draw stories. LOL
Premiere Dalton McGuinty sidesteps riding issue
While Stpehane Dion says Parry Sound-Muskoka is part of the north
That would be -1 for McGuinty and a BIG PLUS 1 for Dion here in Cottage Country.
PS Garth, If by chance you put a note to Stephane regarding our situation as part of FedNor…Thank you Sir!
With Oilsands workers getting inflation protection and at least 23% over 4 years, if ratified, and additional market cash injections by Bank of Canada and no interest rate increase it looks like liquidity ballon will go into inflation. Garth, do you agree?
Not that all those items are directly related, but we are already into a reflationary cycle, in my view. — Garth
Oh, and BTW, if your read the links you will find that actual reporting of statements and news still exists, at least here in the Muskoka.
Herb and Judy,
The fact is that very few defense minister’s has ever served in the military. O’Connor was an exception. I can’t remember another one when I served and there was a slew of them.
You might send an e mail to CPAC. I agree with other observers, they are the most objective of the lot in terms of coverage.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.15.07 9:14 am
Thanks PP – I’ll do that and, maybe if enough people who are interested in the SPP will follow suit, we’ll be able to get CPAC interested.
Hmmm…’Fighting for peace!’ Now there is an oxymoron for today!
The media is mostly letting Dion off the hook so far. But Layton and Duceppe won’t be so kind. Harper is right to take the high road, simply reminding voters they now have a clean government.
Anyway, the ‘finessing’ requirements will come during the leadership debates. Duceppe’s questions to Martin re which 12 Quebec ridings got the sponsorship cash still haven’t been answered.
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 3:11 pm
Clean government? You mean the little booklet on how to destroy parliamentary committees is clean government, telling lies to income trust investors and then pulling the rug out from under them is clean government? Surely you gest!
I implied no such thing. — Garth
Judy said, “Wonder how the Cons got the “old Duff†to tout the Reform/Alliance on CTV?”
And you replied Would that be Senator Duffy you’re speaking about? — Garth
How else should one take the combination of those two phrases? To me, Garth clearly indicated that Duffy was offered an incentive such as a Senatorial seat.
Marc,
“Duff is a legend on the Hill and enjoys a level of respect equal to that of a member of the red chamber. What else could I possibly have meant� — Garth
Thanks Marc, but I already included that phrase in my post, so yours is redundant.
Hope this helps, but if you can still not comprehend the words I am lost on how to help.
Considering Garth has said less than flattering things about the unelected senate in the past. Why would he all of the sudden change his opinion of it?
February 15, 1989
By Reg on 08.15.07 3:57 pm
Reg if I went there I,d bring this article from 1989.And a copy of this and many other artcles from Arthur Kent on http://www.skyreporter.com/
The display of musical chairs contributes little if anything to the challenge of saving Afghan and Canadian lives. It comes at a time when Harper and his ministers have made no visible attempts to address fraud, influence peddling and other anti-democratic practices among ministers in the Western-sponsored Karzai regime.
Interior Minister Zarar is still in his post, despite allegations that he heads a list of senior ministry officials responsible for creaming up to a third of every Canadian tax dollar that goes to pay Afghan police salaries. Attorney General Abdul Jabar Sabet, whose family resides in Canada, has been accused of acting on behalf of Kabul’s leading heroin gangs in removing the respected chief of police at Kabul Airport. Sabet is rumoured to be on his way out, but hasn’t yet succumbed to O’Connor’s fate.
Rocky Mountain News
It’s nearly over – nine years of Soviet occupation, of guns and bloodshed and defeat by stalemate. One of the first units to cross onto Afghan soil in December 1979, the Western Division’s tanks and troop carriers made up the last big convoy of the withdrawal.
The Berlin Armored Assault Regiment, named for its victorious drive into the heart of Nazi Germany, was now finding itself, 44 years later, heading home empty-handed. Despite the official line about the Afghan campaign having fulfilled the Red Army’s “internationalist duty,†many Soviet soldiers see it a different way. “It’s time for a change in our army,†one tank commander said as he clamped a replacement tread into place. “it’s time we changed our whole attitude toward life.â€
Garth,you are one BITTER man!!!!!
Almost correct. Actually I am “better†than I was as a Harper bot. — Garth
By david on 08.15.07 11:48 am
No David – He’s just one ’smart’ man. Too bad that you can’t see the forest from the trees.
I actually have ideas, not just rhetoric and comic relief in my arsenal and am going to bestow them when and where I think they may be heard, and do some good. I understand holding the cards close to the chest too.
By Greg on 08.15.07 3:50 pm
That is great Greg, then maybe another vote for an independent candidate is in the works. One by one, we shall overcome.
Herb and Judy,
The fact is that very few defense minister’s has ever served in the military. O’Connor was an exception. I can’t remember another one when I served and there was a slew of them.
By Van on 08.15.07 4:17 pm
Exactly Van, maybe you could pass that on to Mr. Harper who seems to think the opposition members who had not served were unqualified to ask questions!
How did Afghanistan get on topic? One more time please print and put on your refigerator “Afghanistan will be worst than Iraq” ask any Russian just how bad thnigs can get, and why worst because Iraq is the training field, and they will fight with no food, no sleep, little pay, dressed in rags and sandles in the Winter time, couple this with those who were injured in Iraq and know they die because of no medical care and are offered a few dollars to become a sucicde bomber and you start to get picture eh. So get the hell off your expensive Lazy Boy in your home with all the nice things and smell the coffee!
Peter MacKay is a joke, first sign of trouble like lossing a girl friend he will run home to daddy and borrow a dog. May heaven help our CAF’s. Harper now knows it could be curtains for him and he just made sure no ex PC will run the Reform Party>>>>>>
By Ted Browne on 08.15.07 4:58 pm
Shhh! No one wants to remember what happened to the massive Soviet Army in Afghanistan.
Likewise, no one seems to remember the scenarios that played out in Viet Nam. No one except those who served in those fiascos of political idiocy.
OoHah and a Gung Ho (Chi Min)!
I this Flaherty’s fault? Loonie falls again as investors dump currency
The loonie closed at 92.78 cents US
“What that means essentially is that investors who borrowed cheap money in Japan to invest in various countries, including Canada, are now reversing that trade. They are selling their Canadian assets, they are selling their loonies, in absolutely massive amounts, and that has caused the loonie to tumble.”
Couldn’t be related to the IT stupidity of course…Ask any Harper puppet.
Those that are complaining about Duffy supporting the Conservatives, take a look at this “news report” from the Canadian Press (Gee, I wonder who wrote this one?).
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070814/peter_mackay_070814/20070814?hub=Politics
Note the news reporters’ “unbiased” reporting in some of the paragraphs:
“OTTAWA — In a sense, Peter MacKay’s new job as defence minister will be the same one he had for 18 months as foreign affairs minister — selling a hard-nosed Conservative view of the world to sometimes skeptical Canadians.”
I would say that all political have some sort of “hard-nosed” view of something. Well at least we would like to know where they stand on any given issue (an no nuances or sitting on the fence crap).
“It could be a mistake, though, to believe that a warm smile and a few well-chosen words from MacKay will turn the trick. “
Are they saying that no Liberal MP has a “warm smile”.
and
“It was a dramatic change from the pretty-boy image MacKay had when he arrived in cabinet “
I thought that we are in 2007 and not 1950’s.
This “reporting” is more of a commentary than a news report that one would expect from the Canadian Press. Or did our Canadian Press receive their education form Enquirer U?
Calgary Junkie – like Guite isn’t trying to cover his butt.
There’s a scandal involving Guergis and her family (nepotism at its worst) and the environment in her riding, and there’s a funny little legal issue with Josee Vernier, blah, blah, blah.
We can all pick sores here – what a waste of time.
By Ted Browne on 08.15.07 4:58 pm
Glory be, the voices of reason and understanding remain among us.
A Soldier of the British Army, returning from the Great Empires failed attempts at conquest in Afghanistan was remembered for his words, “No death so horrible as that at the hands of an Afghan Woman.”
Is it possible to help them understand? How do we convey to them who choose not to listen, to explore, to learn?
So many questions, so few answers.
If nothing else, this link shows that the the right people, in the right places and with the right connections can lead to murder; it is nicely covered up, all for the sake of bigger profits.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/08/14/utah-mine-owner-troublin_n_60477.html
That is great Greg, then maybe another vote for an independent candidate is in the works. One by one, we shall overcome.
By pjw on 08.15.07 5:01 pm
I do appreciate your optimism PJ. Hope drives the human spirit. I have grown long in the tooth, and have heard and experienced a great deal. I am in no way easily deflected and seek things in the simplest form. I have dealt with High Corporate power, and Government. I have assessed many considerations, and simply can’t be led nor fooled as I have no personal agenda.
I hate no-one, no color, no culture, no race, no sexual orientation. I have retreated for some time to ponder, and I reiterate, am not easily fooled.
I fully support the movement of Independent members of Parliament, but realize that the proliferation of propaganda prevails. The Team has strengths that the individual does not. This does not negate the value of the Maverick, or the Independent, as they foster balance. As does a Minority Government. I am wary of SPP and NAU, as should we all be. I Love My Country, and have a vested interest. I will do what I can to protect even the bickering we engage in, in order to preserve its principles and to honor the spilled blood of my family.
We must be forever vigilant, and speak our concerns at every opportunity. It is all that is afforded us. Unless, we band together as brothers and sisters, and rage against the system.
I challenge in order to bring the best out of me and you.
Imagine if no-one showed up to vote! The ultimate peaceful protest. Thank you Mr. Ghandi.
Such a fine upstanding man! Does anyone believe him? Or, does anyone care anymore?
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/us070914
OoHah and a Gung Ho (Chi Min)!
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.15.07 5:26 pm
Bill, unless I am mistaken and please correct me if I am, you were a US citizen? If so, I merely wish for us to present combined knowledge in respect to a very important part of world history to those younger than you and I. That being the History of the Vietnam war which is relevant to understanding the greater considerations of our times.
“Leave the Armed Forces there until the job is done.”
Reg, I appreciate your comments of 3:57 PM. Your heart is in the right place, but you miss the real problem.
What precisely is the “job” that is to be done by our CF in Afghanistan? The first principle of war is “The selection and maintenance of the aim.” What is the aim? Creating a peaceful, democratic, modern, prosperous and poppy-free Afghanistan was posited by our new PM when he extended the mission, but that is no role for Armed Forces. Defeating the Taliban might have been, if the Taliban were the only problem and if collateral damage did not create 10 Taliban recruits for every Taliban you killed (hello, Viet Nam.)
The real “job” is to create a 21st Century nation state out of several medieval tribal cultures that had a line drawn about them by colonialism and, to their lights, have gotten along nicely without us. Sure their women have no rights, but it does happen to be a paternalistic and Islamist society, and at least they don’t circumcise them. They do not subscribe to our ideals of democracy, human rights and femlib, but they have not had our history, development and movements, and we should not rely on instant conversions at the point of guns.
The Taliban were a problem for the USA, because they allowed al Qaeda to operate from Afghanistan. The USA should have been quite capable of dealing with a “pissant little country” (as L.B. Johnson once described Viet Nam), but they subsequently decided to get involved in a tar baby called Iraq for their own purposes. NATO proclaimed the mutual assistance case right after 9/11 before the circumstances and implications were known and, to humour the USA, has not revisited that decision. And Canada got involved in Afghanistan because, compared to Iraq, it was the lesser evil.
George C. Marshall refused to race the Russians to Berlin in 1945 because “I would be loath to hazard American lives for purely political purposes.” Well, that is what we are doing with Canadian lives in Afghanistan, no matter what window dressing we put on it. At some time we must get real, realize that Afghanistan is not a factor in the security of Canada, step back and let those with an interest in creating a 21st Century Afghanistan get on with it. We can help with diplomacy and development, but should stop being suckers in defence.
The bottom line is that it is not, never was, and never should have been made our war.
My opinion – Leave the Armed Forces there until the job is done. However, we should provide them with EVERYTHING THEY NEED to do the job properly. Our sacrifice of $$ (regardless of the amount) is a pittance compared to the sacrifice they voluntarily make.
By Reg on 08.15.07 3:57 pm
Reg – I’ll give the benefit of the doubt tht maybe you’re too old to enlist. Do you have any children. If you do, convince them to enlist. You sound like all the neocons in the US who are all too willing to have send off the troops, but none of their children will ever serve and they managed to bypass the draft in the 60’s cause Daddy had the money and the connections to prevent them from doing so, just like Dubya. Your types make me sick. Read some history on Afgantistan and Iraq. Freedom and democracy has to come about from within – not from outside sources that don’t even uphold democracy within their own countries. And don’t even compare Japan and Germany after WWII – a different ball game totally. Western intervention & our idea of democracy will never work there. Take your blinkers off.
The media is mostly letting Dion off the hook so far. But Layton and Duceppe won’t be so kind. Harper is right to take the high road, simply reminding voters they now have a clean government.
Anyway, the ‘finessing’ requirements will come during the leadership debates. Duceppe’s questions to Martin re which 12 Quebec ridings got the sponsorship cash still haven’t been answered.
By Calgary Junkie on 08.15.07 3:11 pm
All I can say about you CJ is from reading your many posts is that you are a one delusional person. Rather than disliking you, I pity you. You must have had a very bad childhood.
Herb and Judy,
The fact is that very few defense minister’s has ever served in the military. O’Connor was an exception. I can’t remember another one when I served and there was a slew of them.
By Van on 08.15.07 4:17 pm
Exactly Van, maybe you could pass that on to Mr. Harper who seems to think the opposition members who had not served were unqualified to ask questions!
By pjw on 08.15.07 5:03 pm
Touche!!. Great pjw.
Speaking of Canada’s REAL interests!
Please, do not just talk about the SPP…ACT!
The Security and Prosperity Partnership: Why We Need to Take a Closer Look at Continental Integration
Herb,
Sure their women have no rights, but it does happen to be a paternalistic and Islamist society, and at least they don’t circumcise them.
Yeah, they stone them to death. Much better.
They do not subscribe to our ideals of democracy, human rights and femlib, but they have not had our history, development and movements, and we should not rely on instant conversions at the point of guns.
You do realize that the women in Afghanistan had to right to go to school, university, and work for 14 years under the Soviet Union right? How would you feel if you could work and then one day you aren’t allowed to?
You seem to justify their suppression of rights because they are Islamic. Well Egypt is Muslim and they allow women to vote, hold office, and work. Their religion and culture are not an excuse for suppressing rights and committing atrocities.
KPN: All I can say about you CJ is from reading your many posts is that you are a one delusional person.
Hey, I’m just pointing out future problems that Dion will have to deal with. I’m assuming the LPC Constitution is your bible.
So according to Section 16(3), you guys will have to have a national convention some time before Dec, 2008. And you will have to let the delegates vote on Dion’s leadership.
I’m just pointing out the obvious.
How is that delusional ?
Sheeeesh.
By Charles Oxley on 08.15.07 7:24
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/us070914
Dick Cheney said,
once you got to Iraq and took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world and if you take down the central government in Iraq, you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off.”
I said;
even if the Afghanistan mission were successful, what is a democracy of 28 million going to do in the heart of Old Islam? I liken it to a Liberal at a skin head rally. Feet don’t fail me now!
Van: And O’Connor’s miserable performance proves that being a former soldier is not a required qualification to be a competent Defence Minister.
Bill, unless I am mistaken and please correct me if I am, you were a US citizen? If so, I merely wish for us to present combined knowledge in respect to a very important part of world history to those younger than you and I. That being the History of the Vietnam war which is relevant to understanding the greater considerations of our times.
By Greg on 08.15.07 7:30 pm
Ah, I am very pleased to participate in such a revelation. Well, I was a mere young lad of 18, fresh out of High School, and I enlisted in the U.S. Marines. Viet Nam was just beginning with the U.S. sending ‘Military Advisers’ to assist the Republic of Viet Nam’s government in their ‘fight against Communism.’ Well, any American of the period can tell you that the Numero Uno Boogey Man was Communism. In fact, Canada was called a Pinko-Commie nation by most Americans, because that is what the MSM told us Canada was. Can;t have any of those socialist commie values like Healthcare. Hell no!
We had gone through the assassination of JFK, RFK, and LBJ taking over as the President. The year was 1964. The U.S. established some ‘Forward Bases’ and the ROE’s (Rules of Engagement) were you were not allowed to have ammo in your weapon unless Washington, D.C. authorized it. Likewise, if fired upon, you had to have authorization from Washington to return fire. Brilliant plan…absolutely brilliant military strategy. Robert Strange McNamarra was the Secretary of Defense.
The Marine’s primary task was to provide both CAS (Close Air Support) to the ground troops, aka Grunts, as well as the U.S. Army G.I.’s. Initially we operated from aircraft carriers and troop ships. The U.S.S. Enterprise, on which I spent some time, was the main carrier. Then came land based operations like Chu Li on the ‘Nam coast. The terms used were ‘Feet wet’ and Feet dry’ to signify when the birds were over Viet Nam land areas or the sea.
Ho Chi Min, the military genius of the North Viet Nam Army, formed one of the most ingenious and effective supply lines in world history through the jungles. The VC (Viet Cong) transported supplies via their feet and backs, bicycles, and tunnels southward. That is why the jungle was constantly being bombs with Naplam and B-52 Carpet Bombing…trying to disrupt the supply lines.
Likewise, the VC operated at will across the Laos and Cambodian borders, which were, of course, Off Limits to American Forces. Just like Pakistan is now. Then came the CIA, who actually spearheaded the entire fiasco from the very start, and they ran Black Ops into the neighboring countries.
Hanoi, the North Viet Nam captiol city was also Off Limits to military action. You can find out a lot more about many of the details by studying the life of Senator John McCain, P.O.W. who spent a long time in the Hanoi Hilton. also, a good movie is ‘Flight of The Intruder’ starring Danny Glover. The book by Dale Brown (not Dan brown) is even better. they finally decided to go ‘Downtown’ and took out a lot of Hanoi, which was also known as Ho Chi Min City, and still is today I believe.
anpother excellent book that details the USAF’s experience, and the reality check a few recognized is ‘Every Man An Eagle’.
None of the troops really had a clue in Hell why we were there, and all we cared about was not being there in 100 degree F heat and 100% humidty, and marching through human crap in the rice paddies, or the jungles with all the Oungi Sticks and Boobey Traps the VC were so adept at making from locak materials. They were ‘Nam’s IED’s BTW.
Now, we have found out that off the coast of Viet Nam is one of the world’s largest oil reserves, and China is after it big time. the Vietnamese thought we were after the gold in the hills. Viet Nam has many natural resources.
So, wrapping up Part 1 of this, the U.S., and others including the Aussies, and Brits fought this fiasco from 1964 until the Tet Offensive in 1976 when Nixon finally Gave it up! 12 long years of wasted people, billions spent, millions of tons of metals dropped all over this little ‘piss-ant’ nation, and now they gather the metals, sell them to Japan, and South Korea to make cars that are sold to Americans.
BTW,JFK refused to get America involved in ‘Nam, and many, including myself, belief he was killed for it. He was denying the military/industrial complex, which President Dwight D. Eisenhower had warned America about, of billions in profits
Oh, and the French had tried to colonize Viet Nam for decades, and even they, finally said ‘This is unwinnable!’ and left. Today the U.S. is on good terms with Viet Nam and does trade with them. Not so with Cuba, because Castro pissed off Tricky Dick Nixon, and it has never been forgiven by the Washington Power Brokers. Remember, Castro asked the U,S, for help, and when they rejected him because he had run the American mob out of Cuba as well as Batista, he went to the Soviets, and they did provide aide. BTW, the real reason for the Cuban Missile Crisis finally was disclosed. the U.S. had placed ICBM’s in Turkey, aimed at Moscow. The Soviets reacted by placing ICM’s in Cuba aimed at Washington, DC. And let us not forget the American embarassment of ‘The Bay of Pigs’ fiasco.
Their next ‘adventure’ was Grenada. LMAO! That was such an embarassment it is not even mentioned in the U.S.. Then came The Gulf War and 0peration Desert Storm. They are still there fighting that one, eh? BTW, 500 Iraqis were BLOWN TO SMITHEREENS today by suicide bombers.
What was that Bush said? ‘This will NOT be another Viet Nam!’ He, of course avoided Viet Nam so doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground about it.
Democracy, as has been said, comes from within, not from without. Gun Boat Diplomacy failed in ‘Nam, and Gunship Diplomacy has failed in the Middle East.
BTW, my son has been to the Persian Gulf 8 friggin’ times with the American forces, and my good Canadian friend was in Kandahar, and may do another tour because it will ‘boost his career and retirement pension.
Muskoka lost a fine young man, Pte. Darrel Caswell two weeks ago in ‘Ghan.
Oh, and Bush and Harper do not want the caskets shown. Can’t have that revealed…people could get upset. ‘Nam claimed 58,000 American lives…for what? It also claimed about 250,000 Vietnamese lives, but no one knows the real figure because they were unable to ‘piece together’ the remains.
BTW, Robin Williams did a fantastic film called ‘Good Morning Viet Nam!’, and it does truly portray the kind of press control that was used. SSDD.
The one important difference is this time the people are not blaming the troops, but the government for the casualties. Thank God for that grace.
Luck of The Draw was about what the poor bastards that got Drafted drew, as a thought.
More tomorrow. it is late, and I have been at work all day. Goodnight!
Oungi Sticks should be Pungi Sticks. Gone to bed here.
Herb wrote
>The bottom line is that it is not, never >was, and never should have been made our >war.
You are oh so wrong. First of all we are a member of Nato. Secondly Article 5 is very clear when it says an attack on one member ( in this case USDA 911) is an attack on all members. US. Thirdly, We are a member of the UN and this war has been sanctioned by the UN.
It appears to me that some of the Anti Harper/ Conservative crowd are very selective when it comes to keeping our word with to Agreements. Apparently, it is not OK to change an agreement regarding the Atlantic accord but it is OK not to honour our agreements with NATO and the UN. Somewhat hypocritical I would say.
Acting on SPP!The canadian council has a web page called Integrate this.On it under CHAPTERS you will find there are protests all across Canada on August 20th.that you can join in.I will be marching with my family!
PJW wrote,
>Exactly Van, maybe you could pass that on >to Mr. Harper who seems to think the >opposition members who had not served >were unqualified to ask questions!
As far as Harper’s comment in the house goes. if a member asks a dumb question then you will get a dumb answer in reply. This has always been the case in Question period since confederation.
But since you seem to be so concerned over it go tell Harper yourself. You can find his email address on the Parliament homepage or the Conservative homepage if you dare go there.
Unfortunately,The fact of the matter is that very few “civilians” including some of our MPs know very little about what the military is all about and don’t understand much about the military period except what the media feeds them. I also include the current Afghanistan mission. An example was a letter form a person who wasn’t thrilled about the Vancouver PD putting the ” Support our Troops” decals on their vehicles because they have several officers serving in Afghanistan as reserves. She thought it was supporting our troops in Irag. hell, we have never been part of the Irag war. I wonder how many more Canadians think the same way as she does? So you see my friend, unlike you i understand where Harper is coming from although I don;t feel he should have said it. But hey members of all parties say things in question period that they should not.
This is another subject that I wish Garth would blog about so a good healthy debate about it. How about it Garth?
Cheers
Dick Cheney said,
once you got to Iraq and took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world and if you take down the central government in Iraq, you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off.â€
By Greg on 08.15.07 10:20 pm
Finally someone is willing to recognize Dick Cheney for being the great trditionalist that he is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-wOJAL0vJA
Strikes me your name might be Greg Malone … Sam’s brother! Say hello to Sam, Carla, Diane, Frazier, Lilith, Cliffy & Norm for us.
Please come to Edmonton or Saskatoon on your western tour. I’ll make the drive. Schedule?
Van: And O’Connor’s miserable performance proves that being a former soldier is not a required qualification to be a competent Defence Minister.
By Judy on 08.15.07 10:28 pm
Just because Mr. O’Connor wasn’t a sleaze ball snake oil insurance salesman with a golden tongue, doesn’t mean he was incompetetant.
Mr. Gordon O’Connor has more integrity, intellect, and knowledge in his pinky finger than Denis Coderre has in his whole fat body!
Mr. O’Connor did more for our military in 18 months, than our past defence ministers did for the last 20 years.
And yeah, I consider the fact that Mr. Harper blinked (caved in to the media and Quebec) and removed Mr. O’Connor from defence a strike!
Secondly Article 5 is very clear when it says an attack on one member ( in this case USDA 911) is an attack on all members. US.
Van
You might want to check out the documentary “Loose Change” before you make assumptions on who is repsonsible for 911. You might find a different view there, and some astonishing facts.
Peter MacKay is a joke, first sign of trouble like lossing a girl friend he will run home to daddy and borrow a dog. May heaven help our CAF’s. Harper now knows it could be curtains for him and he just made sure no ex PC will run the Reform Party>>>>>>
By David Bakody on 08.15.07 5:07 pm
Talking about dogs and jokes David, where do you think your hero Dion and his dog Kyoto are these days?. Anyone that would name their dog Kyoto after some ill conceived environmental screw up isn’t very bright. You should be praying that these types never become Prime Minister of this great country. You have condemned Mr MacKay before he starts his new job, of course this is the Lieberal and NDP way. I’m also impressed that you can also read minds!!! Why don’t you read your own, not a nice picture I’m sure. To much of that Atlantic sea air apparently has effected your gray matter.
he next paragraph of the same article of the treaty makes it clear NATO is supposed to step down when the UNSC steps in. There’s nothing in that treaty at all about accepting mandates from the UN, which goes a long way to explaining why half the signatories are telling ISAF to stick it.
ISAF is its own oxymoron.
GGF,
I am not justifying anything, least of all our right to military action in any particular selected country. There are many countries with democratic, human rights and economic deficits in the world that also would benefit from direct action. Yeah, I know, we have not been invited in by governments we have helped to install there. (Refer to Brit colonial history about that practice.)
If the Soviet Union was so great for Afghanistan, why did the USA do their best to get them out? And how come we are having such a hard time resurrecting the ragtag Afghan fighters that defeated the Soviet Army?
Islam does not excuse, but it does reinforce and explain attitudes. And I know that there is nothing anti-fem in the Koran, but there are “followers” who act as if. (See some other religions for the difference between theory and practice.)
Van,
I am aware of the legalisms and formalisms involved (see being invited in, above). They are the pablum fed to political babes. How about considering the operative reasons, you know, the reasons countries actually do things for, not the rationale used to explain them?
All in aid of showing what a ball of wax and can of worms the war in Afghanistan is.
Iraq news that speaks for itself
The list of reality checks:
1. False intelligence: For about a year, American troops in Iraq had been looking for the leader of a
shadowy insurgent group….(Who is a fictional character created by al Qaeda, and non-existent.)
2. Missing arsenal: A third of the weapons issued to Iraqi troops are unaccounted for, says the
U.S. Accountability Office. Missing: 110,000 AK-47s, 80,000 pistols and 135,000 body armour items.
3. Ayatollah power: Iran (Bush’s Bad Boy target du jour, but considered a freind by Iraqis and Afghanis)
4. Civilian deaths: The U.S. Army/Marine Counterinsurgency Field Manual says: “An operation
that kills five insurgents is counter-productive if the collateral damage leads to the recruitment of
50 more insurgents.”
Yet civilian deaths and injuries continue. The latest incident: “U.S. air strike on Taliban
commanders wounds at least 18 civilians.”
The U.S. military said that “during a sizeable meeting of senior Taliban commanders, coalition
forces employed precision-guided munitions after ensuring there were no innocent Afghans in the
surrounding area.” Except that there were.
An Afghan official said the Taliban had gathered for a public execution of two accused spies and
“forced the people to come and watch.” A tribal leader estimated that “hundreds were present.”
Good Morning Afghanistan! Are these the same morons that ran Viet Nam?
Naw, must be their well trained children. Gen II. This is what happens when Old Hat leaders fail to get the updated version of reality.
So the statement Iraq news that speaks for itself is accurate and realistic. No OoHa possible…more an Uh Oh!
So Viet Nam was a lesson, only the oposition has learned far more than the Americans did from the lessons of ‘Nam and Afghanistan. In fact, it would appear the American leadership (I use the term very loosely) should study Gene Roddenberry’s concept pf the ‘Prime Directive’, because they have repeated the same acts, and expected different results. That is known as INSANITY!
Please read all the article…support our troops all ways, and that includes facts and realities, not mere wishful thinking.
Muskoka,
eagerly looking forward to your next installment. May I use your “‘Ghan†from time to time? It has more of that ring of unreality than A’stan.
By Van on 08.15.07 11:32 pm
You are right in that we did have an obligation to Nato. That obligation has been fulfilled. We are now engaged in a Police action and supposed rebuilding program. Totally different from North American defense commitment.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.16.07 12:19 am
Did you visit the link that was attached to the original post?
Judy,
could I please have some instances of O’Connor’s “miserable performance” as MND, or are the “lies” all there is?
If nothing else, this link shows that the the right people, in the right places and with the right connections can lead to murder; it is nicely covered up, all for the sake of bigger profits.
By Charles Oxley on 08.15.07 7:14 pm
No truer words have been said.
When we really decide war and slaughter is unnecessary, in fact inhumane and unproductive. The UN will outlaw the manufacture and sale of weapons and ammunition. Until that day comes, expect more of the same…only worse.
Still, the U.S. refuses to sign the Anti-Personnel Land Mine Treaty. refuses to stop arming their ‘friends’, read as profit potententials, around the world. Same goes for Russia, China, Bulgaria, Romania, and all the producers of AK-47′S or the SKS and ammo.
But then people like war, especially when they can fight it from their armchair, safe at home with their family, and the action is on the TV in a foreign land…far, far away.
Tune right into the Military Channel, CNN, and get your fix for today. You feel so ‘manly’ like the baseball fans who know all the stats, but can’t play the game.
The Liberal pre election campaign:
Speak no evile, See no evil, Hear no evil.
By Bill R on 08.15.07 12:31 pm
I hear nuthing, I see nuthing, I know NUTHINNNG! Sergeant Shultz, Hogan’s Heroes..
By Herb on 08.16.07 8:26 am
The troops call it ‘Ghan, be my guest. Too many ’stans’ nowadays anyway! LOL
Remember, we have been called Canuckistan by members of the U.S. Congress.
in this case USDA 911
OH MY GAWD! The U.S. Department of Agriculture, (or should that be anticulture?) was responsible for 9/11?
Now we know why there was a the BSE outbreak…They were using WMD’s on themselves…Words of Mass Deception.
And we thought Alice had found the Wonderland!
First, all the Canadian troops are REALLY doing is protecting the poppy crop in Afghanistan (NOT endorsed at all by the taliban) and it’s ridiculous that they should have to die because the Americans are so high on speed that they mess up and kill Canadian troops. Switching to training troops isn’t going to change the basic problem.
Secondly, the cabinet shuffle should be viewed in light of the coming SP/NAU and then it begins makes to sense – in that light there are indeed MAJOR changes, particularly as it relates to swarming the First Nations people for resources. Mr. Harper is counting on Canadian racists to get him re-elected and reap the “rewards” off the SPP. NICE. It also makes sense then why Harper could never tolerate Garth Turner.
Garth has to represent CONSTITUENTS who are going to be royally screwed when the new SPP guidelines are implemented and the military expenditures really rack up. The SPP will be discussing how Mexico can have its military subsidized without having equipment fall into drug trafficker hands: something actually to really worry about as drugs come up the N. Am. highway. Don’t worry it’s not tinfoil hat stuff: the papers have been LEAKED.
And as for the global financial MELTDOWN going on, some may wish to listen to what I post on the bottom.
I’ve seen the sidestep here, Garth, so I don’t expect any comments. But these are points you are going to face on any tour or any townhall meeting!! I am very sorry that so many people are going to be so very shocked, personally, but the LIberal Party better get itself prepared as the right and left are converging: the right already has 108,000 signatories on their petition and it’s still counting! Taking away people’s civil liberties isn’t going to stop alot of people from getting involved in opposing the SPP. Too much is at stake. The autocratic Harper is/war perfect for its implementation .. but he’s stupid to let war criminal Buzh onto Canadian soil. The media’s deafening silence about real truth and the lack of government trasparency just makes people work HARDER to expose what is going on. Ditto arresting people.
Guns and Butter Wednesday, August 15th, 2007
http://kpfa.org/archives/index.php?show=13
About this program:
From Cold War to Class War
Interview with financial economist and historian, Dr. Michael Hudson. Liquidity crisis in the banking system; wiping out of credit; demise of the dollar; stock volatility; hedge funds; sub- prime lending, real estate tax versus labor tax, etc. Dr. Hudson has been appointed Chief Economic Advisor for the Kucinich for President campaign, and is writing a new tax policy for the United States. He is President of The Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trend, a Wall Street Financial Analyst, Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and author of “Super-Imperialism: The Economic Strategy of American Empire”. Visit his website at .
ps. this is a great forum to read.
And yes, Harper is exceedingly FAT/OBESE. Pretty stoopid when he’s got so many photo ops coming up; afterall, he is not Peter Duffy.
NATO = North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Established to form a joint defense of western nations against a Soviet Attack on Europe or North America. Known today by its other moniker OTAN Overthrow The Arab Nations.
Yes, I see the connection clearly now. Someone in Washington discovered using the CIA’s KH-11 satellites, that the Atlantic Ocean used to cover parts of the Middle East, specifically Afghanistan. So, it logically follows that they are operating under the original intentions and purposes of NATO, to defend against an attack by the Soviet Union, which we all remember got their arse decimated in Afghanistan by the Mujahadeen, led by Osama Bin Laden, who was trained and equipped by the U.S. CIA.
That has been so confusing for so long. Thanks for clearing it all up for me.
“And how come we are having such a hard time resurrecting the ragtag Afghan fighters that defeated the Soviet Army?”
By Herb on 08.16.07 8:23 am
Because they now call themselves Taliban.
We are now engaged in a Police action
By Greg on 08.16.07 8:33 am
But, this will NOT be another Viet Nam, because we have Dubya’s word on it.
Besides, Condoliar Rice told us ‘Our word is as good as gold!’
Yeah, and I saw a cow jump over the moon last night!
Psst, I hear there is a massive gold deposit out there, and a company called Bre-X is selling shares. But don’t tell anyone about it.
Thanks for the Vietnam recollections Bill. Hopefully you said enough for people to be able to draw some parallels to the Middle East situation.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t there a lull in the bombing and virtually the entire war while peace talks were revived in France between the Americans and Ho Chi Minh?
I have heard some analysts say that the Viet Cong and the NVA were beaten at this point (Hanoi in shambles) but given that year, with great efforts from China and the Soviet Union were able to resurrect themselves and come back even stronger?
Good for the Military Industrial Complex don’t you think?
Looking way back, I think of Galipoli and the terrible fiasco it was. The Generals were weak and had no regard for their Armies. Gen. Douglas Haig led British and Empire forces in France in WW1. His strategy was attrition. Last man standing. America’s General Alexander Haig was top dog during the Vietnam war. Co-incidence???
“In 1970 Haig was named deputy assistant to the president for national security affairs, and his diplomatic authority expanded to include secret peace talks in Paris aimed at ending the Vietnam War (1959-1975).”
Some interesting parallels to our times, when one takes time to remember.
America held tremendous amounts of British debt after WW1. Their industrial capacity fed the munitions and goods necessary to wage war during WW2. The British debt accumulated by America at this point turned the balance of world power to the USA.
War is good business, especially when Titans are involved. Who are the best businessmen in the world?
So many questions, so few answers!
She thought it was supporting our troops in Irag. hell, we have never been part of the Irag war. I wonder how many more Canadians think the same way as she does?
Van…I suspect as many as Americans think Iraq had something to do with 911.
Further, I bet many Canadians are unaware our troops are sitting ducks for the Taliban and Binny’s boys who sit on the other side of the Pakistan border and pick us off, thanks to Bushies agreement with Pakistan. And furthermore Van, do we know who was really responsible for 911? How come Mayor Brown of L.A. reputedly got a call from Rice the night before and told not to fly the next morning. How come many senior level bureaucrats reputedly cancelled their morning flights on Sept 11th? Maybe we want to look at the documentary “Loose Change” before we go off half cocked. I don’t know if everything in that documentary is true but it sure makes one wonder.
Reg – I’ll give the benefit of the doubt tht maybe you’re too old to enlist. Do you have any children. If you do, convince them to enlist. You sound like all the neocons in the US who are all too willing to have send off the troops, but none of their children will ever serve and they managed to bypass the draft in the 60’s cause Daddy had the money and the connections to prevent them from doing so, just like Dubya. Your types make me sick.
BY KPN
I am too old to enlist. I do have 2 sons. They have spoke to me about the armed forces, enlisting, and fighting. I was honest with them. I’d be absolutely terrifed for their safety. But I would support their decision 100%
As for making you sick… take a look in the mirror. Your ‘types’ make ME sick due to your unwillingness to help protect ourselves but are sure willing to sit back and enjoy all the benefits.
Bill mentions the oxymoron of ‘fighting for peace’. It is true, but also a fact. Without fighting, and protecting ourselves, we will not have peace and safety.
So long as there are people who want to harm us, and damage our way of life, we will have no choice but to accept the fact we will have to figh to protect it. And that will mean people will die.
One last thought. I will paraphrase the words of Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali.
Ain’t no Mujhadeen ever called me Infidel…
By Greg on 08.16.07 9:33 am
I believe you are correct on the ‘Lull’ I, like most ‘Nam Vets, pretty much turned a deaf ear, which was not hard to do as most of of us lost some hearing in combat, on the entire assinine situation. I do recall that as being decision point, however, and after more than 40 years, I look at it for what it was…a very poorly thought out confrontation that was primarily driven by profits for the M/I complex under the usual guise of Patriotism.
George Carlin had it down perfectly numerous times, especially for Operation Desert Storm.
Carlin asked ‘When was the last time the U.S. bombed a country with White people in it?’ The answer was ‘Germany because they were trying to take over the world’ and, Hey, that’s OUR friggin’ job’.
He also noted that ‘Bush heard Sodumb Insane had a bigger dick than he did…The response was BOMB them!’
Likewise, he noted that all the missiles and bombs are shaped like…’Yep, you’ve got it! LOL
Where is Pat Paulson when we need him? LMAO!
The 1960’s changed the way this world looks at reality, some of it because of LSD and other DoC’s (Drugs of Choice), and some because it marked a return of a more spiritual quest, which is still ongoing today.
The dividing lines along racial and ethnic lines had remained quite well established for centuries. Colonization had ‘proven’ that Western civilization was vastly superior to all the Pagan religions and cultures, etc. Therefore, there was no need to revisit the beliefs…No need until my generation came along and asked ‘Why?’ Why do we hate? Why do we say one thing and do another (Hmm…isn’t that from QP?) Why is it not right to deny people basics like food, shelter, medical care, housing, a real chance at life? Interestingly, the basis of all those those altruistic beliefs came from the ancients, whose teachings were destroyed by the Roman Legions, and therefore, lost to our modern world. The Lost Secrets have been refound, and are rising again. They are inside each of us, ad are free for the asking, if we will make the effort to ‘Seek’ them.
Remember western civilization passed through The Dark Ages, and it was not until the 18th Century that we started to re-learn the ancient mysteries. the Royal Society of England was at the centre of that re-emergence and brought forth the Age of Reason. Unfortunately, we took that a tad too far also, and passed right by the spiritual aspects, and I do not mean religious, but genuine spiritual aspects of being a human being.
Now, there have been many before, but for some reason, It seemed to come to a head back then. Then, the Romanists (as I call them) saw they were losing control and instituted one of the greatest propaganda programs ever seen…Marketing!
We used to say ‘Madison Avenue could sell refrigerators to Eskimos through marketing.’
Today we have a society governed by short term thinking, instant rewards, unlimited materialism, and complete disregard for history and wisdom.
Pretty much like those who haven’t the common sense not to walk behind a horse.
We have Political Correctness, which has abrogated honesty and truth. We have feel good everything, and no goals, other than the acquisition of more ‘things’. We are overly busy accomplishing nothing.
Yet, there remains that spark of wanting to understand more as to ‘Who am I?’, ‘Why am I here?’, and ‘What is my destiny, my purpose in life?’
The pendulum swings, yet again, if only it would stop over Truth and cease carrying society to and fro. Perhaps that is the ‘Why’ most cannot grasp the mentality of the Islamic peoples, or China, or anything else. They have been around for millennia, been there, done that, and we are like adolescents trying our wings, believing we are invincible. I think they are laughing at us. We know everything, can prove it scientifically, etc., but we have no wisdom, no philosophy as a primary part of our beings, at least most do not.
No judgement involved in this, just observation, and that is the duty of every living person. To find their inner core, find their meaning, and it is not obtainable by external means, only internal introspection. Like the Monty Python movie ‘The Meaning of Life’.
Have to run for now and do my work. Later today I will look back.
By Reg on 08.16.07 9:52 am
There is a difference between ‘Defense’ and ‘Offense’. Defending our home soil is attributed to actions on our soil against a clear and present enemy force.
Fighting over a ‘maybe’ on foreign soil is offensive.
Were that not true the ICBM’s would have flown decades ago, and we would not be having this discussion, eh?
Maybe we should make a few pre-emptive strikes against those south of us who want to take our our country and reosurces? use the well proven principle of ‘Act now or lose the opportunity.’ I am sure someone, somewhere can justify that as ‘defense.’? Maybe we should be killing our neighbors because we ‘know’ they are going to eventually attack us? How about we simply shoot anyone wearing anything that looks like gang colours?
Hey, how about getting the truckers to run over those damn biker gangs? We can call it Operation Roadkill!
Yes, let’s go for the ‘Minority Report’ approach.
I’m just saying, we need to define what the words mean in context to reality.
Tell me again how playing rent-a-cop for a bunch of drug dealers against regional dissidents that will never again get control of the country by buying access to its capital’s Southern approach from a warlord constitutes proctecting ourselves? Maybe one of these times I’ll get the gist of it.
“Now, there have been many before, but for some reason, It seemed to come to a head back then. Then, the Romanists (as I call them) saw they were losing control and instituted one of the greatest propaganda programs ever seen…Marketing!
We have Political Correctness, which has abrogated honesty and truth. We have feel good everything, and no goals, other than the acquisition of more ‘things’. We are overly busy accomplishing nothing.”
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 10:15 am
Then there is that other great tool of human enslavement and guaranteed subservience, the Mortgage.
It’s a real shocker when as a result of pursuing the great American / Canadian dream, one wakes up one day with a broken family, and nothing but debt and trinkets.
PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.16.07 12:19 am
Did you visit the link that was attached to the original post?
By Greg on 08.16.07 8:34 am
Darn tootin’ I visited the site. Don’t forget Cheney as part of X-Branch sat at the table with Rumsfeld, Bush, and all the Generals who decided “the best way” to prosecute the war.
As I interpret the NL source, he is now completely reversing himself on the issue. He had a MAJOR SAY in the whole thing.
There were MUCH EARLIER WARNINGS about Bush, Cheney, Rove and that lot in the leadup to Bush occupying the white house the first time. The problem was, nobody listened. Both Bush and Cheney were caught on an open mike, describing one prominet journalis from the NYT as a “major league asshole.”
Adam Clymer, respected journalist, knew and was trying to warn everyone.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/
Bill, fair points, but only insofar as to illustrate the point you are trying to make.
I had strongly supported the war in Iraq. I believed that they had WMD. Who knew? In hindsight, the Libs were correct in not getting involved in that war. It was based on bogus info. I was wrong on that one.
As to the war in Afghanistan, I believe it is justified. The Taliban attacked and killed many U.S. and Canadian citizens on U.S. soil on 9/11. We have a clear and defined enemy, and we know where they are based.
Until that enemy is no longer a serious threat, and Afghanistan can run itself, we are justified (and should be) there fighting along side them in that war.
Sure they may be more issues such as drugs etc., but the Taliban is the more serious threat.
If I have understood correctly, our guys and gals are actually trying to convert farmers from growing drugs to regular crops. It’s all about $$ and safety. Seems a good approach by our side. Pay them good $$ and keep them safe.
Al Qaeda attacked and killed innocent civilians, not the Taliban. The Taliban were hosting them. They offered to extradite Bin Laden according to international protocol but certain Western leaders wanted no part of it.
Earth to Reg! It was al Qaeda, not the Taliban that are alleged to have carried out the 9/11 attack. BTW, they were all Saudi Arabians, not Afghans, nor Iraqis. Shall we bomb Saudi Arabia?
BTW, do you have the DNA evidence that was recovered from the attacker’s bodies which was magickly found amidst the rumble of 110 stories of debris from the burned out floors of the WTC, that collapsed into a smoldering mass of carnage, that PROVES who the attackers were? I have been looking for that evidence. You do watch CSI don’t you?
Also, can you please show me the proof that a Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon, because, as someone very qualified in the field, I cannot find one bit of photographic evidence that was the case, neither can anyone else.
Oh, and what’s your informed opinion on the meeting between G.H.W. Bush, Dubya’s daddy, and the NBin Laden Group in NYC the very morning the attack happened? How about that special clearance the Saudi Royal family was granted, the only aircraft in North America BTW, allowed to takeoff and safely depart back home.
I don’t mean to rain on your parade, but integrity of thought requires I raise these pertinent points that remain unanswered.
“You might want to check out the documentary “Loose Change†before you make assumptions on who is repsonsible for 911. You might find a different view there, and some astonishing facts.”
By pjw on 08.16.07 5:33 am
That show loose change is a complete waste of time. It looked like a conspriacy show put together by a couple of young kids who did not research at all. They thought the WTC were brought down by controlled implosion. I don’t know of any “facts” these people pointed out, just unfounded and not supported assumptions.
That show loose change is a complete waste of time. It looked like a conspriacy show put together by a couple of young kids who did not research at all. They thought the WTC were brought down by controlled implosion. I don’t know of any “facts†these people pointed out, just unfounded and not supported assumptions.
By Marc on 08.16.07 11:29 am
So what you are saying Marc is that the interviews with the NYC fire department are bogus? That those firefighters seen in the film are fake, because if my memory serves me right, they were in the lobby of the WTC and attested to the fact there were explosion in the basement?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.16.07 10:58 am
These were comments he made in 1994. The reversal is extraordinary.
By Marc on 08.16.07 11:29 am
Actually, the people who are saying a controlled implosion was used are professional structural engineers and explosives experts, not a couple of kids.
Then there is the mysteriously unexplained collapse, by the same method, of the adjacent office building.
I know it is hard for many to accept even the possibility that this was something other than what we have been told, but to those who do know, the answers are far less than the serious questions remaining. That is not conspiracy theory, it is objective scientific analysis. remember the magick bullet of the JFK assassination? 40 years later the experts revisited the evidence. One of the ultimate Cold Case Files.
Here is the story What Caused Building 7 to Implode. Please note this initial report was conducted by a group of volunteer engineers under the direction of FEMA. even they said said the collapse could not have been due to ancillary damage from the WTC collapse.
Here is another link. Watch the videos, look at the pics, and read the articles Landmark Implosion Looks Like WTC Collapse
To search just enter WTC implosion and you will have many links to reference. Same with Pentagon 9/11.
Now, as k this question…’What records were present in the WTC?’, which was a known Top Secret Class storage facility for the U.S. Government and major corporations. The mainframes buried under the rubble are sealed forever. How convenient.
Reg,
please! Yes, 9/11 was a direct attack on the USA and a major escalation in an ongoing conflict between Middle Eastern interests headed by al Qaeda and US economic and military interests as represented by the WTC and Pentagon. The 26 Canadian casualties were “collateral damage, were not trooped out until last year (if memory serves, by MND O’Connor, who surely knew better) and in no way presented a threat to and casus belli for Canada.
You admit that you were led up the garden path to support the Iraq War. Please consider the possibility that the same propaganda is at work in the Afghanistan, that the “GWOT” is as much a self-serving construct as “WMD”.
In assessing and confirming or revising our policy on Afghanistan, we should stick to verifiable facts and legitimate interests. Propaganda, speculation and wishful thinking cannot manage the hard realties of war. It is time we learned that lesson.
Earth to Bill…
Do you seriously believe the conspiracy theory started by a French author?! C’mon now.
To help explain, and to also show you some photographs (and yes, a pc of the plane)… feel free to go here to take a look. Probably won’t convince a conspiracy theorist such as yourself, but hey… up to you.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
Now, as k this question…’What records were present in the WTC?’, which was a known Top Secret Class storage facility for the U.S. Government and major corporations. The mainframes buried under the rubble are sealed forever. How convenient.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 11:55 am
Beyond believability and logic. If you believe the U.S. Gov’t is even capable of such a deliberate act on its own people, youi show a total lack of common sense, and inability to investigate the most basic facts. A good start would be to read this…
The Frightening Fraud by French author Thierry Meyssan.
Herb…
I have considered the info on Afghanistan. I also stand corrected for mixing up the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Of course, at the end of the day, I don’t believe there is much difference in outlook or goals.
Yet still, the reports and facts coming out of Afghanistan suggest to my common sense that we are doing the exact correct thing there.
Herb,
I am not justifying anything, least of all our right to military action in any particular selected country.
The country had training facilities for terrorists. Would you rather they continue this and have them blow up a subway in Toronto?
There are many countries with democratic, human rights and economic deficits in the world that also would benefit from direct action.
But were they training people to infiltrate Democratic countries and promote terror?
Yeah, I know, we have not been invited in by governments we have helped to install there. (Refer to Brit colonial history about that practice.)
The Afghan gov’t was elected. The British colonies never started out as democracies. They had a colonial government (basically dictatorships), hence the word colonial. And British colonialism was focused on increasing trade. Do you think the USA or Canada really cares about the market of Afghanistan?
If the Soviet Union was so great for Afghanistan, why did the USA do their best to get them out?
Duh. The Cold War. The USA and the USSR were engaged in wars over countries. They didn’t care about human rights in Afghanistan.
And how come we are having such a hard time resurrecting the ragtag Afghan fighters that defeated the Soviet Army?
Hard time? How long have we been there? There has been civil war in the country since 1978. Put things in perspective will you.
Islam does not excuse, but it does reinforce and explain attitudes.
So it explains the attitudes? Does that mean we should do nothing about it?
LMAO…I was just re-reading the statements and this one jumped out at me…
which was a known Top Secret Class storage facility
Well, if it was well know I doubt it was top secret.
By Reg on 08.16.07 12:16 pm
I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a scientist and engineer. I go on provable facts. Not one photo has shown the known and expected residual wreckage of a 757, its wings, engines, landing gear, all which are found after any crash.
A T-39 Sabreliner or Cruise Missile would have been the likely, and reported, object. especially a Cruise Missile.
Sorry, try, try again.
Here is what a crashed 757 looks like:
Air Indonesia Crash
I suggest you research your claim based on many crash analyses. The wings will shear off, as designed in most such impacts, dissipating the energy…a standard design for aircraft. did I mention I am a pilot, and a former aircraft mechanic, as well as an engineer? When I see hard evidence I will accept it onjectively. Todate I have not…period.
There are those seriously questioning, based on science, the Flight 93 impact crater as well. The one thing that is certain, if ever hard proof comes out the Bush administration was behind this there will be the biggest revolution ever in the U.S.
To question is to be responsible, to blindly accept is to be gullible.
What a 757 would have looked like crashing into the Pentagon Note, no damage that correspondence to the wings, because they were never there.
To help explain, and to also show you some photographs (and yes, a pc of the plane)… feel free to go here to take a look. Probably won’t convince a conspiracy theorist such as yourself, but hey… up to you.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
By Reg on 08.16.07 12:16 pm
I have a couple of questions for you, have you seen “Loose Change’? Do you think there is a remote possibily that this whole 911 was staged? Do you think the government is incapable of lying to its’ citizens? Do you think it is possible that the leaders could be in the grips of something bigger than they are? Now, I don’t know if anything in the film is true but it sure makes one think, I would hope it is all untrue but there are things in the film that could be proven or disproven. The most compelling part for me was the interview with the firefighters, these are men who put their lives on the line and I don’t think they would purposely lie, especially when over 300 of their brothers died on that day.
Here is a nice BIG picture of the Pentagon.
Let’s play Find Waldo, eh? Where is any wreckage of the alleged 757 and corresponding building damage from the wings and engines?
Bloody HTML.
Here is a nice BIG picture of the Pentagon.
By pjw on 08.16.07 11:43 am
Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said thay the FDNY statements were bogus. It is the video that is is bogus and how they tie things together to be a big conspiracy theory. If said bombs were in the basement then the implosion would be from the bottom up which any video I have seen has clearly shown the building imploded from top down. The explosions the fire department heard were most likely columns failing in the basement due to the stress from having to carry unintended weight on them. People can believe what they want but those buildings to withstand a plane flying into them without toppling over is quite astonishing.
Also, can you please show me the proof that a Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon, because, as someone very qualified in the field, I cannot find one bit of photographic evidence that was the case, neither can anyone else.
Oh, and what’s your informed opinion on the meeting between G.H.W. Bush, Dubya’s daddy, and the NBin Laden Group in NYC the very morning the attack happened? How about that special clearance the Saudi Royal family was granted, the only aircraft in North America BTW, allowed to takeoff and safely depart back home.
I don’t mean to rain on your parade, but integrity of thought requires I raise these pertinent points that remain unanswered.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 11:25 am
Oh boy, we have a 9/11 conspirist within our midst. Thank God he’s a Garth Turner supporter.
To question is to be responsible, to blindly accept is to be gullible.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 12:54 pm
It actually depends on the question(s). You see, the questions that you bring up are ones that are brought up by the quasi-intellects who really don’t have a clue except they follow their bias/hatred.
Here’s the conumdrum, the same people who accuse President Bush of being a moron, a dummy etc., are the same ones accusing him of orchestrating these horrible terrorist attacks. You see, the attacks would have to be orchestrated by someone who has the brains to do such a complicated thing.
Live with your conspiracy theories if it makes you happy, it makes the rest of us sit back and laugh.
So if your theory is true and there was really no jet involved in the Pentagon attack, where do you suppose the U.S. Government put all those people who supposedly were on it?
I think at this point, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I have dealt with Americans extensively on my job for the last 15 or 30 years. I love them like my own family and neighbors for we are very similar. It is mostly the politicians that are different. However, there is one trait that consistently rears its head in dealings with the U.S. That is a bit of paranoia and distrust. It could be simply due to the U.S. being in the position of being the people the world loves to hate, however it sometimes makes it difficult to speak reasonably.
For the most part, I find you very knowledgeable, well spoken and articulate. I just can’t understand how people can go against common sense and buy blindly into conspiracy theories.
So…on that note… I’m off to a new topic.
“Don’t put words in my mouth. I never said thay the FDNY statements were bogus” Marc…
If you will note in my post, there was a question mark? I did not say you said, I asked, are you saying? You have answered. I have no idea what happened on 911 because I wasn’t there, nor do I believe the conspiracy theory or the Official line. I don’t know! The only thing I do know is that it is a possibility, and that is all I was asking people to look at. Sure, you collectively may dismiss it as out of hand, that is your right, to me, it is not that simple. Politicians in general have not been forthcoming with the truth on so many issues, it leaves a lingering doubt in my mind. I would love someone to answer all the questions in the film and maybe release the tapes that were confiscated by the F.B.I immediately after the pentagon crash, although after all this time, would we be able to believe they are the original films?
So…on that note… I’m off to a new topic.
By Reg on 08.16.07 1:25 pm
Reg, I would echo your sentiments on the American people, I was fortunate to work on Wall Street for 14 years and the people I worked with and lived among were super people. I don’t think (opinion) that Canadians in general think poorly of Americans, I do think (opinion) that very many are not enamoured with the present Administration in the U.S.
And finally, you can form whatever conclusions you like. I have mine based on the evidence and logical analysis. The Complete Analysis of one group of researchers I suggest you review all the data available. This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do solely with the truth.
That often proves to be an ‘inconvenient truth’ for political types. We are all supposed to be mindless twits like they are, do as we are told, and never question them…pretty much like the Wizard of Oz. So sorry…what’s that behind the curtain? Reality is a bitch.
What a 757 would have looked like crashing into the Pentagon Note, no damage that correspondence to the wings, because they were never there.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 12:59 pm
Bill, they show the plane going in as if it was flying perfectly level along the ground at extremely low altitude. That it totally unrealistic. A skilled pilot would barely be able to pull that off and these weren’t skilled pilots.
A forsenic economist named Greg Palast was the major contributor to Michael Moore’s Farenheit 9/11. Good watch for those who haven’t seen. Palast’s book Armed Madhouse is a NYT’s BEST SELLER. No, you won’t find it in a dominant place at Indigo. Lots of nice feisty stuff in it. Stuff to think about.
The controlled demolition wasn’t in the basement; it was set on various floors using thermite/thermate, evidence of which has been found now. So the explosion details have been verified, although ignored by the 9/11 Commission, now long defunct. People are demanding that it be reconvened.
Lastly, Bin Laden, if still alive, is in an area of China controlled by MUSLIMS who are ever so grateful to get portions doled out to them of the $28 billion paid out to Osama by the US for his services kicking the Russians outta Afghanistan. Try doing a google on Tajik or Uygur .. funny how they are the areas adjacent to Afghanistan that the US adminstration never pointed out on the map when saying they would pursue Obama anywhere … one could EASILY get kidney diolysis there without much trouble, eh? The Bush’s are known for turning on their friends . hence Saddam and Osama became ENEMIES after fighting US wars … The POINT of holding Afghanistan is to have the pipeline going through it; however the US has blown that. A google alert on “Russian oil” will answer many mysterious questions if read faithfully.
Without the Brits handing over Newfoundland just prior to WWII for US military use, we would not have the Confederation as it exists today. The exhange was made to get Britain cash to fight Hitler; FDR’s “price”.
Okay, if my tinfoil hat is showing, why am I reading Garth? Because this country absolutely must see the end of the Harper regime as what they are up to is DEEPLY troubling if a person is interested in the good of the entire world. I still have hope.
We like tinfoil. Should see my helmet. — Garth
By Reg on 08.16.07 1:25 pm
The American people are great people…I happen to be one of them, now Canadian, but still an American citizen as well, as are my family there.
The government has been the problem, and the only real burden the American people bear, is the same one Canadians bear…Who we send to have power over us. It still remains our duty to watch over those we are supposed to be able to trust.
Like the ‘Boy who cried wolf’ the U.S. goverment has been caught to many times telling lies, and then continuing to defend them. Pretty much like a few Canadians we all know…Conrad Black comes to mind as one of numerous examples.
It was fun, and remained civilized. I enjoyed the exchange. See you int eh In The Ditch…(Groan) topic, which will be an ongoing story I think.
By GGF on 08.16.07 1:56 pm
That image is to illustrate the silliness of the lack of gouges in the lawn and other witness marks, but has nothing to do with the pilot’s skills.
It shows the comparative analysis between the aircraft’s size, the building witness marks, and the flight path attitudes.
Have a nice day.
So if your theory is true and there was really no jet involved in the Pentagon attack, where do you suppose the U.S. Government put all those people who supposedly were on it?
By Reg on 08.16.07 1:25 pm
Hmm…Gee, let me think on that one. Who were they? Got a Passenger list? Could they have boarded the flight, then been taken to a nice airport somewhere, under different a Flight Number in the FAA ARTCC routings? Disembarked, then while the bird got a little touchup paint of things like its tail number (which is the only readily visible identity to anyone other than serial numbers), they were all shuttled somewhere else via bus? Maybe a rendition flight to Dubai. Not a bad vacation spot I hear. Heck, they could have landed at Halifax and who would have even known? Nice and close too.
Could the aircraft have been sold to someone else, like Air America? Where are the insurance claims, the death certificates, the funerals, etc., enquiring minds want to know…or and perhaps a few DNA verification samples.
Could they have been government employees of perhaps the CIA, NSA, Naw that would be impossible because…because…We can neither confirm nor deny anything.
Gee, I can think that scenario up on my own. What could professional covert operatives do as a team?
I am gone from here to the next bit of joyful fun!
LOL…Glad I gave you some humour regarding the Top Secret Vault (meaning to the general public). Here is some more on it THE VAULT Below Ground Zero, Silver and Gold That would be by Tim Dwyer of the New York Times.
There is a lot more, but then you know how to research so enjoy.
But I like this one because it shows the Canadian link. Note: No bodies were found in the vault. Hmmm…Could they have known or been warned?
Cache of Gold Found at WTC
The Toronto-based Bank of Nova Scotia has said its vault under 4 World Trade Center alone held more than $200 million in gold and silver. Bank spokeswoman Pam Agnew didn’t immediately know if any of that gold was found last night.
Thats, thats all folks!
I don’t think (opinion) that Canadians in general think poorly of Americans, I do think (opinion) that very many are not enamoured with the present Administration in the U.S.
By pjw on 08.16.07 1:44 pm
Well, I must disagree with your statement. The anti-American sentiment has been around for as long as I can remember. 40 plus years ago, the sentiment was mainly in verbal conversations (rarely in the written word – media). With the internet (i.e.), the vast immigration from non-European/British countries, and it becoming the vogue thing to do amoung our elites and politicians (mainly from Quebec and eastern parts of Canada), we do see an escalation of the anti-Americanism (I call it bigotry).
But, I have a question for those who use anti-Americanism to bolster their self worth, would you rather be friends with China or Hugo Chavez?
Bill wrote.
>Oh, and Bush and Harper do not want the caskets >shown. Can’t have that revealed…people could >get upset.
To be very honest Bill, I could care less what Bush thinks or does in the USA regarding the deceased military. That is up to Bush and the American people and has nothing to do with Canada or canadians.
Now as for Harper and your allegation that his policyis the same as Bush’s. Sorry Bill but you are out to lunch on this one.
The present Canadian policy concerning our Afghanistan War dead which has been in place for at least a year or more is that the decison whether the casket of service man or woman’s is publically shown on its arrival in Trenton is entirely up to the family. The same goes for the funeral. It is the family nd no one else who decides if it is going to be private or public.
To make such an accusation about Harper and how we treat our dead without proof is an insult to the grieving families and all other families who decided to keep everything private. Harper or nor any other government member, public servant or military member has anything to to do with this decision whether none, some or all ceromonies will be public or private.
It is for these reasons that I ask you withdrawl your comment unless you can cite evidence from the family that they wanted a public recording of the Trenton ramp ceromony or thr funeral and their wishes were denied.
To be correct, the current policy of letting families make that decision only came after some families objected to the PMO’s unilateral no-media position. We are always deadly factual here on the garth.ca Truth Desk. — Garth
But, I have a question for those who use anti-Americanism to bolster their self worth, would you rather be friends with China or Hugo Chavez?
By Catherine on 08.16.07 3:48 pm
Well that certainly has not been my experience, I have lived in Ontario for the last 27 years, and prior to my 14 years in New York, lived in Montreal and I would say is was rare that I ever found anyone who had bad things to say about the American people. I have heard lots of negativity about the American administration however in the past few years. As to your question, I would like for Canada to remain friends with all countries and work towards having them adopt democracy rather than bombing them to accept it. I think it is important to look at our foreign policy and see how we can improve relations with all nations. While I am at it, I would also like to see Canada return to a peacekeeping force and forgot this silly idea that we should be a dominant military force.
Garth, iffen you help get The Harper OUTTA there and take his Alberta tar sands vultures with him, I will GLADLY come and shine your helmet with PLEASURE. In public for all to see. I knew there was gonna be trouble. You know what they say, my enemy’s enemy is a friend o mine. I mean if you truly want a world with some level of safety in it, he really has to GO. Soon.
I am a font of conspiracy info, seriously, but that doesn’t make my analysis WRONG. LOL.
The ‘latest’ is that Cheney wants BuZh’s coming to Canada called OFF. Lots of weird reasoning, but called off. And the bets are on that there will be RAIN in Ottawa and Montreal this weekend.
Bill Muskoka
I have it from a VERY RELIABLE SOURCE that Sean P. Hogan and Catherine are Raelians … So, in future, you should greet anything they say with a quizzical
“Oh, RAELLY?”
The trailing source provides a picture of the vessel their ancestors arrived on, along with a picture of Sean P., who is clearly a clone-like being, most likely hatched on a rock.
Part of the Raellian ‘code’ has been adapted from the current ‘intelligent design’ offerings. What I don’t get is that the Raellians tout a ‘purposeful life’ and yet we have these two toadies trying to impress the rest of us with their CRAP ideals.
http://rael.org/rael_content/intro.php?elan=English
Ann Coulter, ‘moderate’ Republican and fanatical supporter of Bush policies speaks … speaks again … and again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmLJDrsaJmk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeqZLrhkvQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YyjrhvmDM8
By van on 08.16.07 4:31 pm
I am well aware of the facts, as Garth stated them. As to American KIA’s I have a son in the U.S. military, so I will criticize Bush all I choose to. I earned that right as an American, and one who served my country.
As a Canadian I also exercise my right to be critical of policies I see as politically incorrect, as in ‘cover my arse’. Clear?
garth wrote.
>To be correct, the current policy of letting families >make that decision only came after some families >objected to the PMO’s unilateral no-media >position. We are always deadly factual here on >the garth.ca Truth Desk. — Garth
You just couldn’t leave well enough alone could you garth. You just had to make a another political cheap shot didn’t you. The fact is that the current policy is as I stated it. Is the current policy as I stated it or not? You know very well it is as I ststed it to be.
Besides, if you had bothered to read my post a little closer you would have realized that I said the “current policy” which any sane person would have known meant a previous policy was in place. Harper realized he made a mistake and changed the policy which you and others have claimed he never does. Thanks for the example Garth, so maybe now even you will admit he is human after all..
Btw, I happen to agree with Harper as far as Harper not allowing the press on DND property during the Trenton arrival. For one thing the public was shown the ramp service in Afghanistan of every soldier who was killed which should be enough for anybody who has compassion. So I feel the comments re Harper’s is a red herring and mud slingling to say the least.
A forsenic economist named Greg Palast was the major contributor to Michael Moore’s Farenheit 9/11. Good watch for those who haven’t seen. Palast’s book Armed Madhouse is a NYT’s BEST SELLER. No, you won’t find it in a dominant place at Indigo. Lots of nice feisty stuff in it. Stuff to think about.
The controlled demolition wasn’t in the basement; it was set on various floors using thermite/thermate, evidence of which has been found now. So the explosion details have been verified, although ignored by the 9/11 Commission, now long defunct. People are demanding that it be reconvened.
By Virginia Simson on 08.16.07 2:06 pm
Virginia, Virginia, are you another paranoid fruitcake? Do you really believe in this theory or are you just kidding us? Would you please direct me to the evidence of a controlled demolition on various floors using thermite/thermate. Don’t give me any examples from those mentioned above or in any of their fictional books. Me thinks you also believe Michael Moore’s hot air balloon. Also who are the people demanding that the 9/11 commission be reconvened, just five will be fine?
So, in future, you should greet anything they say with a quizzical
“Oh, RAELLY?â€
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 08.16.07 5:26 pm
I think he needs to be arrested for counterfeiting as he is a definite Loonie!
As to responding to One who’s name shall not be mentioned, I simply will not further waste my valuable life energy on such drivel as is presented by OWNSNBM, (Owns No Brain Matter). As Spock said in ST IV ‘I think did too much LDS in the ’60’s’. The female version, however, is mildly entertaining now and then. Ic am doing some research in PMS (Pre Mental State) and she contribute occassionally to that research.
Regardless, thank you for your most informative input.
Oh, and the other OWNSNBM, (Owns No Brain Matter), the one with the Adam’s Apple and waxed legs has long passed into the abyss of non-notable persons with me.
Btw, I happen to agree with Harper as far as Harper not allowing the press on DND property during the Trenton arrival. For one thing the public was shown the ramp service in Afghanistan of every soldier who was killed which should be enough for anybody who has compassion. So I feel the comments re Harper’s is a red herring and mud slingling to say the least.
By van on 08.16.07 6:35 pm
I am very surprised you would feel that way Van, seeing as you are so open.
Good Job Garth – Please continue to tell it like it is, even though PMSH doesn’t know how.
While you’re on the 10-city speaking tour in Western Canada, will you be addressing the increasingly frustrating issue of the majority of the population of Canada (women) being taxed without fair representation in Parliament?
I believe this was the core issue that fueled the actions of the Suffragettes many decades ago and here we are still fighting for it.
Canadian women are very angry and this will be a huge issue in the future –
and any politician who ignores it will do so to his detriment…
Muskoka,
“waxed legs”? That’s why they are so skinny!
But Ann Coulter did allow me to crack the neo-con code: it’s all lip and attitude.
Pyotr, you need to take some ESL man. It would help you greatly.
I think he needs to be arrested for counterfeiting as he is a definite Loonie!
As to responding to One who’s name shall not be mentioned, I simply will not further waste my valuable life energy on such drivel as is presented by OWNSNBM, (Owns No Brain Matter). As Spock said in ST IV ‘I think did too much LDS in the ’60’s’. The female version, however, is mildly entertaining now and then. Ic am doing some research in PMS (Pre Mental State) and she contribute occassionally to that research.
Regardless, thank you for your most informative input.
Oh, and the other OWNSNBM, (Owns No Brain Matter), the one with the Adam’s Apple and waxed legs has long passed into the abyss of non-notable persons with me.
By Bill-Muskoka on 08.16.07 6:57 pm
Bill, hey Bill. Didn’t you say you were going to ignore me? (for the upteenth time) Come on Bill, at least live up to your word once.
Sean! Stop biting ankles! It isn’t nice.
By Sean P. Hogan on 08.17.07 8:23 am
The PROHIBITION in my Bible states:
Never, Ever, accept the word of a ‘cosily corrupt’ Catholic … who sees the GOB-LI-NESS of a Michael Coren.
Do you have to weigh in before you download at the Coren site? Coren got fired for his RANT, didn’t he!
Everything Sean P says begets [that's a biblical term] … small ‘b’ for Hogan ridicule… because you’re a large-scale ass-licker and failed propagandist.
http://deadder.net/download/hirez0702/d705161r.jpg
I thought all the cartoons on Falwell’s death were delicious. If there were
a hell, then he would definitely be there. He was an evil hypocrite who
sowed hatred whereever he went. The press and news shows should never have
given him a base to sound off with his hateful spewings. The same goes for
all the other despicable religious righters. Christopher Hitchens said it
all in his interview on CNN and his article on Slate.
Congratulations on all the great cartoons. Keep up the good work.
Deisslingen, Germany
[One that escaped from the Pius XII Redemptorist ‘flock.’
Pyotr, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Read the Bible. Once you’ve done that, go to a Bible study and you’ll actually learn what the Bible is all about.
Please, leave your anti-Christian bigotry where it belongs, in the garbage.
“Please, leave your anti-Christian bigotry where it belongs, in the garbage.”
By Sean P. Hogan on 08.17.07 2:04 pm
That is where I tossed my Bible many years ago, in the garbage.
Bill
You can criticize Bush all you want for all I care and you don’t have to be an American either. You can also criticize Harper all you want but where I draw the line is when comments are untrue or not substantiated by the facts. When I see such lies I do get a tad cranky and voice my opinion and try to correct the error. Btw, I would do the exact same thing for any PM or politician regardless of their political stripe.
Now correct me if I am wrong but the Americans do not allow media to record or show American Ramp ceremonies in Afghanistan or Irag. If they did I have never seen them on any of the American new casts but then again they are not my usual sources for the news.
What I resented about your comments was when you painted Harper with the same brush as Bush in that Harper did not want the public to see the caskets. That was wrong because if he did think the way as is claimed then it would stand to reason that the ramp ceremonies in Afghanistan would not have been televised and shown on TV either. Makes sense doesn’t it. Well it does to me.
I also remind you that every single Canadian military ramp ceremony in Afghanistan has been televised and shown on all Canadian news casts through out Canada. Which IMMHO blows your and others theory about Harper’s intentions all to hell. It is for these reasons that my request to you in my original post stands.
Virginia, Virginia, are you another paranoid fruitcake? Do you really believe in this theory or are you just kidding us? Would you please direct me to the evidence of a controlled demolition on various floors using thermite/thermate. Don’t give me any examples from those mentioned above or in any of their fictional books. Me thinks you also believe Michael Moore’s hot air balloon. Also who are the people demanding that the 9/11 commission be reconvened, just five will be fine?
As a parting shot – I don’t like being condescended to – not at all. And the “tone” is there. As the Queen says, WE are not amused. You’re obviously the type of person any response will just feed your fodder.
I can dig in and find the testimonies given at the LA 9/11 Truth Conference..
Unfortunately the VANCOUVER conference was subverted by a flyer I handed out here in TO about the water diversion project afoot in Canada and the presentations weren’t as good in BC as they were in LA. My research is good enough for S. Korean intelligence, it ought to be good enuf for YOU.
Here is a link to info about 9/11 that is constantly being updated.
http://www.911synchronicity.com/%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E9/11%20Synchronicity
as it is interactive.
There are DOZENS Of links for info on 9/11 and I find myself feeling set up, as you can easily do a google search on thermite yourself, rather than having disrespect for those who wish to find out some truth. Integrity’s not a value in high demand I realize, but still worth having. A small search will find you tons of sites. It’s very important to know how to FIND info; we simply cannot know everything anymore and I think Garth would be one of the first to admit that.
I’m not just sure how this thread got highjacked by this topic, anyhoo, thought it was about The Harper’s cabinet shuffle, and the truth be told I was highly interested in what Garth had to say about it and found myself offering suggestions about The Truth.
I came, actually, to get Garth’s take on the financial meltdown . guess that’s for another day. But it has some rather ominious implications for Canada’s economy. I’d rather to see Garth handling Canada’s purse strings than anyone hanging about Canada today. Seems to me, politics aside, that he’s LISTENING, no small thang.
And for the public record, I think Moore is one of the most despicable people out there … with vast resources at his command, he doesn’t do anything constructive with them, except maybe Farenheit 9/11, which was not HIS idea. Why not do a movie on the need for clean water, for example .. and quit pretending he knows what’s “good” for Canada. People who rehash OLD news are not very useful TODAY.
Van, a hint for you.
Ramp ceremonies are military, dignified and patriotic rituals with a touch of the heroic. It’s the mother or wife cracking up on national television on approaching the coffin in Trenton that is a hazard to the war effort.
One woman’s grief reminded me of Frederick the Great, who declined to undertake one campaign because the potential gain “was not worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier”. I could not help asking myself what in our operation in Afghanistan was worth the bones of that Canadian soldier and that woman’s grief. And I did 30 years as a Regular Force Infantry officer, so don’t bother questioning my patriotism, the strength of my knees, or colour of my liver.
That is where I tossed my Bible many years ago, in the garbage.
By Marc on 08.17.07 5:41 pm
Your choice, but remember, the Lord is always there for you, even when you put His word in the garbage.
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