Conservatives claim an ugly incident took place in this room.
Some days one wonders why any sane person would get into politics. Today, would be one of them.
Last night I held a Town Hall meeting in Burlington, attended by a small but engaged number of constituents. The overriding topic seemed to be the SPP, and the overriding sentiment was people don’t like what’s going on. But we also talked about taxes, government services, health care, passports, trade, and Afghanistan.
In the audience were three young Conservative adherents, one of whom regularly tries to post comments on this blog, which are almost always shelved for their offensive content. This guy has followed around after me on several occasions, showing up at university lectures, Town Halls, public meetings and he even mounted a protest on the sidewalk in Ottawa outside the National Press Theatre when I was inside. He’s established an anti-Garth blog and mounted a Facebook assault against me. I think he seriously needs a girlfriend. Maybe a pet.
In any case, he asked me last night about who’s paying for my coming speaking tour in the West. As I answered, the librarian whose room we were using called out for us to end our meeting. I responded in the time left, telling him no taxpayers would be on the hook for it. (Details of this issue, and the tour will be – as already promised – released tomorrow.)
Of course, I don’t much care when I’m attacked. It’s expected, after all. Especially from people who worship Stephen Harper. But it is sad when partisanship becomes wrapped in lies and fabrication.
The young turk today talked a Tory blogger into publishing an account of the meeting, which (of course) the Con warrior did without confirming or authenticating the facts before rushing to print. This article says:
“I am writing you today because I was at a Garth Turner townhall meeting last night… His worst action last night was while an 84 year old veteran was talking about a) what a great job our armed forces are doing in Afghanistan, and B) how it is patently false that the Government is doing anything but completely honoring its veterans, Mr Turner decided to shout him down and try to move on to other people discussing Afghanistan, who happened to be a crazy 9/11 denier, but Garth let her speak freely.
Im also appalled that when I asked about who is paying for his cross Canada junket, and how this helps Haltonians, he got extraordinarily upset that I would ask such a question, refused to disclose the source of the funds, and said as an MP he can go “wherever the hell he wants”. His executive assistant also scoffed many times during my question.â€
Did this actually happen? Did I shout down an 84-year-old veteran, then refuse to answer the tour question about costs? Was I rude to anyone?
Why would Conservative operatives come to a public meeting of constituents and fabricate events? Is the government party so afraid this little visit by a garden variety MP to a bunch of cities west of Ontario that the discrediting campaign has already started – even before the destinations are announced?
Is purposeful mistruth now a hallmark of the once-proud Conservative brand? After all, of the prime minister can do it, when why not his young spear carriers? The tone is almost always set at the top.
Perhaps if someone at the meeting last evening cares to comment (if any of them visit this blog), it might be helpful. The truth awaits.
Town Hall meeting tonight, Tuesday August 21, Oakville Town Hall (Trafaglar Road, north of the QEW), 7 pm.
85 comments ↓
Perhaps you’ll have to record these town hall meetings with MPTV, Garth. Not to post them necessarily, but as a record of events.
BTW, I may not be a Liberal or agree with your stance on certain issues, but I do appreciate your committment to democracy and your approach to your constituents. Put me on your mailing list if one of your town hall meetings ever swings into York Region.
Easily solved Garth, Did you or not video tape it as you do other meetings. Look forward to your post tomorrow concerning who is footing the bill.
“The young turk today”
Did you mean to write turk or turd? If you meant turk can you provide a definition as I read Turk as somone who resides in or comes from the country of Turkey
Town Halls and Blogs…
Nothing the CRAP can deal with because it brings out the TRUTH. The CON warrior should either get a girlfriend or audition for Town Crier..OYEZ …OYEZ..
http://www.towncrier.on.ca/
This whole Conservative style of attack with untruths is becoming tiresome indeed!!!!!!!!
I am a long time Conservative party member (for over 30 years) & I find this whole thing embarrassing to members , such as myself , who have been life-long supporters.
I just hope someone who attended this meeting steps forward to clarify this issue.
If it is proven these events did not occur as stated by this person on his blog , then he should be made to make a public apology–this cannot be tolerated.
If it did occur , it is important we all know.
I , for one , find this hard to believe having met Garth at our Town Hall in St Thomas –he has nothing to gain from such a reaction & this does not match the persona that he presented.
Waiting for clarification in Rodney–Dr Mike Popovich.
Garth,
Why not post his picture on the blog? He wants to be famous…give him some assistance. *snicker* Is it that tall guy that was at one of your earlier meetings?
I am personally waiting for the video tape, that should put to rest this little tempest in a teapot quickly. I am assuming it was video taped. Would you be able to confirm if it was or was not Garth
A humble MP lacks the staff or resources to videotape every public meeting. Such events are a technical challenge, since there is no public address system in small halls and capturing understandable audio is difficult. Our videographer is also based in Ottawa, and we cannot sustain the expense of moving him to the Toronto region for an evening. So, no tape. Sad, isn’t it, that one would require it for an issue like this? — Garth
I hope you are coming to Regina! I’ll come — and I will want to hear what you have to say about Clement’s new WAR ON DRUGS.
And it would indeed be most entertaining if you did berate a couple of 84-year old veterans.
Honestly, does anyone believe this stuff the con bloggers write?
As to the CPC being the Party of Fear…that goes without need for further discussion…of course they are. Look at their paranoid, control freak leader Harper!
This isn’t a political party it is a gang.
I was at the town hall meeting last night in Burlington and I didn’t hear Garth shout anyone down. There was an 84 year old war vet there and he was given the floor for as long as he wanted to talk, and Garth listened patiently to what he had to say.
The only rudeness I perceived was from a few young men in the back row who appeared to be trying to egg Garth on. I later found out that they were Conservative party members.
I can understand why Conservative constituents might be upset that Garth is now a Liberal, but if they want to attack him in order to enhance their Conservative platform, they should do so as self-identified Conservatives so that the public can understand where they’re coming from.
And they should speak the truth – otherwise they’re not doing their party any good. And Garth didn’t refuse to disclose where the money for his trip is coming from. They completely made that up. His account of the event is true.
One if it did not happen, yes and apology is in order by the “young turk” if it did, the one is owed by Garth. The vet one is the most disturbing if true. The one concerning the “young turk” not so much so if Garth considers him a adversary, but he is a member of the riding so a apology should still be forth coming, Just my thoughts, feel free to berate me.
I was at the meeting last night and I could tell right from the start that these three “gentlemen” were out to act as “agents provocateurs” or “inciting agents” by the way they placed themselves at the back of the room with smirks on their faces and folded their arms like kids about to play a prank on a teacher.
Here are my comments on this marked by brackets.
“I am writing you today because I was at a Garth Turner townhall meeting last night… His worst action
[Spinning and ranking everything at Garth's townhall meeting as a degree of negative is an interesting bias!]
last night was while an 84 year old veteran was talking about a) what a great job our armed forces are doing in Afghanistan,
[When I myself made a comment that it was too bad that other NATO forces did not seem to be doing more or at least as much live combat operaions in Afghanistan and Canada seems to be doing the most of any NATO country in Afghanistan, this veteran said that I shouldn't believe everything I read in the media about this and that German news media probably say that German forces were doing all the work.]
and B) how it is patently false that the Government is doing anything but completely honoring its veterans, Mr Turner decided to shout him down
[This veteran was answering another person in the audience who said that veterans weren't treated well enough in Canada, it wasn't a debate with Garth. In answer, the veteran gave several examples of how well he was treated by Canada as a veteran. For example: being able to obtain medical treatment in any hospital when traveling in the US and the Canadian government would foot the bill; how he was called on the telephone and asked if he was still alive by Veterans Affairs, since he hadn't contacted them for 23 years; how he received a home visit after this call, and was told that he could have steps in his bath tub installed for free and receive a free walker. Garth did not shout this veteran down, as a matter of fact, Garth listened and allowed this gentleman to talk as long as he wanted to, bless this gentlemen, as he was talking a lot until this veteran himself realized and said himself that other people wanted to make comments and ask questions.]
and try to move on to other people discussing Afghanistan, who happened to be a crazy 9/11 denier, but Garth let her speak freely.
[Garth let everyone speak freely. So Garth should have automatically prevented this lady from talking?]
Im also appalled that when I asked about who is paying for his cross Canada junket, and how this helps Haltonians, he got extraordinarily upset that I would ask such a question,
[As Garth was answering the several multi-part questions posed to him by this blogger that anyone would have difficulty breaking down into less than 15 points, he repeatedly interrupted Garth. After he told this blogger that he would essentially try to answer all of his questions, if he let him speak, a librarian told us that we would have to leave the room as the library was closed as it was a few minutes to 9pm, the meeting would have to end. Garth did not get extraordinarily upset.]
refused to disclose the source of the funds, and said as an MP he can go “wherever the hell he wantsâ€.
[Garth didn't get to the disclosure of funds answer as the meeting had to end. MPs are under strict rules as to how they utilize funds, so it was a provocative question. My reaction would be the same if some kids at the back of my meeting told me that I shouldn't be traveling outside of my home city.]
His executive assistant also scoffed many times during my question.â€
[Esther probably scoffed because Garth maintained remarkable constraint with these kids in RUSH t-shirts.]
. . . I think he seriously needs a girlfriend. Maybe a pet.
If the gentleman(?) wants, he can certainly have my secret girlfriend – Ms. The Shadow Knows!
Last I heard, Ms. TSK was somewhere north of Baffin Island, probably trying to convince the seals, walruses, etc. to vote CPC come next election. What for, I don’t know as it’s pointless.
Nice to know that you are generating a fear-mongering reaction amongst the tiny-minded minions of Harperville.
All the brutal dictators – Pinochet, Stalin, Ceaucescu and Hitler did the same thing – ruled by fear and a love of power.
Keep on keeping on Garth – it takes time, but the end result is that life only gets better for all of us!
What Garth never told you, and what he never would, just because he is too much of a gentleman is …… that this very young man came up to him after the meeting and said “Thank you very much. I may not agree with what you say, but I respect you for doing this.†He offered Garth his hand, and they shook on it. Go figure!
I must have been at a different meeting, because I didn’t see or hear any of the allegations. What I did see last evening was three troublemakers at work trying to embarrass a dedicated politician.
Garth Turner has solved a dilemma for me. Since the Income Trust debacle, I can no longer vote Conservative. And I really don’t think Canada needs yet another Prime Minister from Quebec. So I won’t vote for a party at the next election – I’ll vote for the individual
I can understand this (young turk’s) reaction. He thinks he’s a conservative and he’s realized that there really isn’t a true conservative party anymore. So there he is trying to take out his frustrations on Garth Turner. What he should be asking himself is why in this entire country is Garth Turner the only MP that an ordinary person can communicate with on a daily if not hourly basis? Why are non of the so called conservative MP’s stepping up to the plate? Garth may not have all the answers but at least he’s out there putting in an effort using his time and resources to make a difference. Maybe it’s time to put our difference’s aside and make this country work instead of whining about what’s wrong with it. Anyway I think Garth is doing a fine job and needs to be commended for it.
“happened to be a crazy 9/11 denier”…
“Think for yourself, question authority.”
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
One Of the blogers sent me an e-mail to-day. Asking me as a member of the EDA for an answer too this question.This was my reply!You want an answer. How’s this!
You have invaded my private e-mail account. Something I do not like!
If there is any more unwanted E-mail from you or any other persons I will react
in a very unpleasant way. Mark Johnston was your sousce. So I have a starting
point.
Mr. Turner and his staff are some of the hardest working people I know.
Every thing Mr. Turner does Is under the strictest rules of parliamentary law.
If you want answers, I’m sure there’s a proper chanel too follow. Asking
honest EDA members is not!
Remember Mr. Turner and his staff work for and represents all the voters of
Halton not just Liberals. And that is just one of the reasons I suport him.
So close your loop, the right way, and do not, repeat, do not use this e-mail
address for your political rederic again! Unless you want too purches a
Liberal membership.
Thanks to those who went to the meeting testifying here. But I didn’t need it personally, Garth lives in ‘reality’ and as such is a truthteller.
Today is a sad day though regarding our Veterans. The Agent Orange report which denies compensation to the complex health problems many eastern veterans suffer, was a whitewash. What was left out of it, is what I want to know. Sad day.
I was at that meeting of Aug 20. What a fabrication and misrepresentation of events.
Garth did not shout down a Veteran, in fact let him say his piece and then got on with answering questions. On the issue of funds, Garth did say he would disclose them. I was within observation of Garth’s assistant and she certainly did no scoffing to my knowledge.
I am not surprised that young Conservatives do this sort of thing since that has been my lifelong experience with the Conservative party. The only person that I and my family were ever threatened by was the party whip { Jack Ellis } back in the 70’s. The tone and tactics of the Conservative party has not changed in 40 years and I come to expect this sort of thing from them.
I have lived with more MP’s than most people and have to hand it to Garth as the hardest working one that I have ever experienced.
Garth, all that this points to is how fearful the neoCon Harperites are of you visiting the West and having folks out there actually experience some honest democracy by a dedicated MP. Once Harper’s western base begins to crumble he’ll be little more than a footnote in history. We can all give thanks for that!
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
(I was at the meeting, if you’d like my take on the meeting, please read on.)
I was at your Town Hall meeting last night. I was sitting near 3 young fellows. The one closest to me I struck up a conversation with before the meeting started. He is in a political science course at university,
I recall him saying. I ask what kind of job he could get with that. The answer was something like, work in government get contacts with parties,ect. I told him what I did and why I was at the meeting and some of my issues with goverments and life,
like Global warming, Global food
production, Peak oil, I told him about
a talk I attended by Gwen Dyer(sp?).
He had also had seen one of his talks about a year ago, and things sounded pritty bleck in the future. I sayed I was know glade that I had decided not to have kids. I also mentioned that I had resontly lisened to a talking book
by George Orwell 1984, and thing weren’t sounding very good with the RFID chips and the fascist US governmnet that I see, and the PMSH and the lake of oversight with the secret SPP deal. That the PMSH ‘clean air’ plan would only start to come into effect in 2050 when we are all out of oil.
The great thing about Mr. Garth TurnerMP
town hall meetings, is his siscer and great communication skills.
(Communication is a TWO way process, it involves being able to articulate your thoughts clearly so others can undersatnd them, and then more importantly lisening and trying to understand the information you are receiving back.)
Mr. TrunerMP allows EVERYONE all/lots of time to ask question(s) and contribute to descutions, even if they have a speaking or language challenge(Or can’t spell well, like me!).
Sometimes they are time restants beond
his control, like the library closing hour.
The olders gentalman Canadian Veteran was never cut off, he was given the floor and spock until he was finished.
I beleive he sayed something like ‘now I’m finished’ before Mr. Turner went to the next person, for input about what they were consernded with or would like Ottawa to look into, or do something about.
One of the young guys, two away form me, ask a long convoluted question.
Mr. Turner lisened patinatly and started to responded as he does with everyone.
Just then the librarina interjested that we would need to leave, we could contune outside.
Mr. Turner heard her, he didn’t stop emidiatly, but kept trying to answere the young mans question about the speaking trip out west and who was paying the trip cost.
The third young guy from me very ruddly interuped and demanded to know who was paying. Mr. turner ask him if he would let him finish answering that very same question his freind had just ask.
I sayed let him finish the answere, you interupted.
With that Mr. Turner finish answering the question about his trip and how the cost was being covered.
If you get a chance to go to a Town hall or have a question or concern I would incurage you to come out or e-mail Mr. TurnerMP!
You can’t always beleive what is in the media, sometimes you need to see it foryour self.
As for the third young man, he should get some profetional help and work on his own ‘issues’ before he ever gets involved with a girl freind.
I would not wish him on anyones daughter until he gets himself worked out. There more to live than PMSH party lines, or whoever PMSH is realy looking out for? I don’t think it is you and me, average working Canadians.
A personal therory as to why the world seems so screwed up, People with sociopatic trates and tendances some how find eachother and plot against the common good.
Neo-cons lie to get what they think they want, screw everyone else, even there own kids futures.
For a great decription of what a Neo-con is and how they operate see
Ron Pual’s speech to congress.
parts 1-11.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aewpvcxAwTk
It is my beleive that PMSH is also a Neo-Con! Be very carefull how you vote for, make sure you know what they stand for and who’s interest they are really going to look out for if they get realected. What kind of world do you want to leave your kids in???
Just a question about the resonsibility of bloggers.
If a blogger person “makes stuff up” about the conduct or character of another person, because it’s in writing and in the public domain, does that not open him/her to libel (to publish false and malicious statements about somebody that damage his or her reputation) charges?
Note:
- I am speaking of factual events as opposed to one’s opinion;
- I presume this applies universally to all those who “publish” information.
Just curious.
I’m getting very uncomfortable at what’s happening here in Canada politically and how certain youth are falling into the tactics of Karl Rove. Worse yet, I wonder if they know it’s inappropriate and wrong? Harper’s not a great tactician – he’s following the Rove tactics.
I suggest you people that were there write to Steve Janke – Angry in the Great White North – who’s trying his darnest to make this some sort of suspicious thing. He fancies himself as some sort of super sleuth and dwells on negatives constantly – now isn’t that a sad way to be?
Garth, I know that you are too much of a gentleman to identify the Tory blogger in question.
I, however, am not the same sort of gentleman. I do not political office and have no qualms about getting down and dirty with a Tory blogger.
I found the post in question. It was I had immediately suspected – Steve Janke.
As Gomer Pyle would say ‘Sooprise, Sooprise’.
Janke fact check? Hahahahahahaha!
Janke let fact and truth get in the way of a ‘ripping yarn’? Hahahahahaha!
Janke wouldn’t recognize know a fact or the truth if it was 2 inches in front of his face. I’ve come across his fabrications many times
Ideology before truth. It’s the Janke way.
Marc, some things simply aren’t as they appear:
Main Entry: young Turk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized Y
Etymology: Young Turks, a 20th century revolutionary party in Turkey
: an insurgent or a member of an insurgent group especially in a political party : RADICAL; broadly : one advocating changes within a usually established group
It’s an expression, no more, no less and certainly not bigotry or racism.
Greg in Oakville, it’s not to correct you, but he’s worth reading. Some call him “left”, but he carry’s water for no one.
Well the link didn’t work, but it’s Gwynne Dyer. Google him.
For those who don’t know the defination of a
“Young Turk”
n.
1. A member of a Turkish reformist and nationalist political party active in the early 20th century.
2. also young Turk
a. A young progressive or insurgent member of an institution, movement, or political party.
b. A young person who rebels against authority or societal expectations.
FF declares; Janke wouldn’t recognize know a fact or the truth if it was 2 inches in front of his face.
Janke steps over the line from time to time but he acknowledges his mistakes and is always above board. He is also the most diligent researcher blogging in Canada and he often puts paid journalists to shame. The guy has done more real political reporting than all but the best full-time journalists. You don’t like him because he is openly Conservative and has revealed a lot of the secondary rot that infests the Liberal Party. Stuff that they hoped would slip away un-noticed under the stench of Adscam.
If this ‘journalist’ was working for any mainstream media outlet, and published this stuff – unsubstantiated and clearly fabricated allegations – he would be fired. It would be richly deserved. — Garth
Sounds like you need a video camera, or at least someone taking pictures, so you could identify the provocateurs and find out who they are working for and if they are getting paid at all out of our tax money. Maybe bloggers could help identify the troublemakers if their pictures were posted.
OMG, Janke(r) the Wanker? How are the donations coming along Janke? Is Kinsella still raising money for you? As if Libel hasn’t gotten you into enough trouble already, can you say OCD? If a Bloggers Ethical Panel ever gets organized, well guess what, you’ve smeared yourself! Anger+Libel=Goof.
Dion is now defending Canadian sized jellybeans rather than standardize to the bigger market size American jellybean.
“We shall not allow the standardization to or importation of the American jellybean! First the jellybean, then our sovereignty.”, proclaimed Dion.
Canadian sovereignty is at stake according to the Liberal party, who are promising to never concede the Canadian jellybean to the American jellybean!!
The funniest take on the wrap-up is here:
http://unrepentantoldhippie.blogspot.com/2007/08/spp-wraps-georgie-speaks-i-still-dont.html
A good link – Russia may have a different view, though.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20070821/72753945.html
Most parties younger members are guilty of this. They ‘think’ they are helping the party they support. They get carried away. Much like when Paul Martin’s young supporters would follow Jean Chretien around and heckle him when he was giving speeches. The young and silly in all parties have done some pretty outrageous stunts. They don’t mature until they’ve been slapped down a time or two. I agree Garth should name the people who were there and causing such a fuss. Or call their moms. L
This is very interesting – just shows how advanced our predecessors were!
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007/08/famous-quotes-from-history.html
Another typical day/evening for the CRAPPERS.
I am looking forward to your visit to the west and will attend any town hall’s in my area.
I take the expression ‘young turk’ to mean ‘rebellious youth’.
I imagine that’s how Garth used the phrase.
Mr. Turner,
what bothers me is that you waste your time replying to scum.
We have serious issues to deal with and even more serious issues we are going to face in the future.
Please stop paying attention to Harper’s goons.
Let’s discuss the waste of Canadian lives and money in Afghanistan,
Ontario’s dying manufacturing industry,
the disastrous results of Harper’s income trust flip-flop,
Canada’s unfortunate economic dependence of US, and so on…
Post their pics…If they want to be so smart and disruptive. Maybe a good ole arse whoopin would be in order.
I am curious about something if everyone would assist, no political reason involved, just where does everyone reside that normally post on this blog and what are your occupations. I know this may seem as a privacy invasion to some but seriously is just curious, I am Military in Eastern Ontario to start.
Myron,
I’ll take the smaller Canadian jellybean any day, especially since it was made in Canada using all Canadian products and was subject to regulations to ensure that it is poison free and, therefore, acceptable for consumption by Canadians.
Which jellybean would you prefer? The bigger and cheaper made in America one?
Thought so.
-R
GTA
Bum
You asked for it.
Garth,
Why won’t you let me tell KH I’m a bum living in the GTA? It’s true.
I am a turncoat living in Milton.
I take it I am now a PNG in Garthworld.
I look forward to reading the next ‘acceptable’ comment.
Why was my comment at 8:40 acceptable but not these ones?
Post some rules please.
Please grow some patience. I was at a Town Hall meeting. — Garth
KH,
I’m in Vancouver and I work for an evil corporate empire that isn’tt named Microsoft, Disney or Fox News.
No comments since 9:05.
It’s now 10:30
KH,
Ex-military (just retired). Now currently working in the world of supply chain management (private sector).
Ed the Hun
I wrote that at 10:30.
Why does it say I wrote it at 10:10?
It’s now 10:37.
Myron:
I used to work in the R & D division of a large food processing corporation. The jelly bean issue has to do with standardizing ingredient specifications… i.e. there are two red dyes commonly used as food colourings — one is banned in Canada because it is considered a cancer carcinogen. Things trivialized can come back to bite!
If this ‘journalist’ was working for any mainstream media outlet, and published this stuff – unsubstantiated and clearly fabricated allegations – he would be fired. It would be richly deserved. — Garth
Get in touch with reality. The guy posted that these were allegations made about what had happened and invited comments, including yours. It’s more honest and factual than your leader’s BS about “secret deals” and it’s precisely the same as 1000’s of articles based on un-named sources. I know some of your more credulous readers swallow this stuff from you, but you can’t honestly believe it yourself?
Grow a hide, man.
You cannot public unsubstantiated fabrications about other people in a MSM publication. That’s called professionalism. This kind of sloppy, juvenile material would never make it into print. At least Mr. Janke has you. — Garth
Further to the water/SPP ussue, Linda McQuaig has revealed some interesting information in to-day’s Toronto Star. It is from a leaked document from the Washington-based C
enter for Strategic and International Studies.
http:www.thestar.com/article/248108
So the speculation was not so far-fetched eh?
Mr. Turner,
what bothers me is that you waste your time replying to scum.
We have serious issues to deal with and even more serious issues we are going to face in the future.
Please stop paying attention to Harper’s goons.
Let’s discuss the waste of Canadian lives and money in Afghanistan,
Ontario’s dying manufacturing industry,
the disastrous results of Harper’s income trust flip-flop,
Canada’s unfortunate economic dependence of US, and so on…
By Solitario on 08.21.07 8:54 pm
…these are all things that are discussed at Garth’s townhall meetings. He addresses misrepresentation due to the fact that some people may think it true, so it is a question of keeping the truth out there.
KH,
Education. Ontario.
(I discipline little pubescent twerps like the aformentioned Harperite wannabe. Hey kid, summer too long? Bet your parents are counting the days…)
O.V.
KH,
Sandy and Charles Oxley, both retired and living in Kelowna, B.C.
I used to have in trade in printing – various newspaper composing rooms, and financial printing houses. Self-taught on the Mac and the PC (Mac is still better).
Further to the water issue and the SPP, Linda McQuaig reveals information contained in one leaked document from the Washington=based Center for Strategic and International Studies in to-day’s (Aug. 21) Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/article/248108
It wasn’t such a far-fetched concern after all. was it? Also, contrary to what I heard Lloyd Robertson say tonight about NAFTA, “eventually it came well out into the open”,…well, actually it didn’t really, did it? (Chapter XI and the oil quota to U.S. esp.)
I found the comments by the U.S. and Cdn. leaders to be insultingly simplistic and flippant. Bush had the nerve to accuse some of the critics of using fear tactics. I do believe some things can be simplified and maybe even standardized but this should not be decided by CEO’s and a few leaders. Harper believes in incremental change…he isn’t stupid as some would suggest, but he is an ideologue with an ideology that is too narrow and really out of touch with what makes a healthy society. Do check out this site, Catherine and Allan. Doesn’t it give you any cause to pause?
At least Mr. Janke has you. — Garth
Nobody “has” me… and you just did exactly what you’ve falsely accused him of doing. You’ve let your foul temper speak in place of facts and evidence.
Janke made it clear that he was publishing one person’s impression of you and -in my opinion – that impression is backed by your petulant responses both here and there… You’re bad tempered, self-serving and petty. You want evidence? Read your own blog.
Now, about those trips; I’m curious about the probity of using an MP’s allowance for travel for personal business. Do locally-based (ottawa-area) MPs get the same travel allowance
as those from further afield? Do they use up their travel allowances for personal use when it’s not required for public business? Do you have any ethical qualms about exploiting public funds for your personal goals?
I look forward to your reply or – alternatively- your burying of this post. Either way I will get my answer.
I’m sure glad you’re not a professional journalist, since you believe publishing “one person’s impression” of other people, when it is factually groundless, is okay with you. Try to imagine your professional reputation being so treated. This is why we have libel laws. As for me using travel points which all MPs are given to travel the country and talk to voters about government policies, I fail to see how this is “personal.” But this week has proven to me over and over again just how easily blind partisanship can turn folks into ravers. Our little chat is over. — Garth
Hmmm, say it like it is.
Sounds like these young ‘new conservative’ politicians need some shoe shining skills.
Can you imagine how childish they would sound. We have Whiny Jeromy Harrison ex mp for the new conservative government begging us to vote for him.
Too funny. I, like Garth, would not lower myself to his standard of ignorant, negative and name-calling campaigning.
Go Garth Go. I value your personable touch.
Thanks
Semi-retired old VOTER. On the “Left” coast.
Who can NOT abide a lier like “PMS”H.
Garth, I will be driving down to Duncan on the 6th to hear you.
Pat G. So the speculation was not so far-fetched eh?
It wan’t speculation, it was a specific allegation based on “secret” evidence. The tenuous link that Ms. McQuaig is trying to make has already been rejected. Did you hear the latest one though? Apparently a Conservative Minister (Mr. Bernier?) was once heard to refer to water as a “commodity”. Not exactly a smoking gun but… hey, it’s something.
Hi Garth, you might be interested in this link: http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush/ “Harper, Bush Share Roots in Controversial Philosophy
Linked by Leo Strauss
Close advisors schooled in ‘the noble lie’ and ‘regime change’.”
Perhaps the Conservatives are also taking a page out of the PR firms like The Rendon Group, etc, employed by the US Republicans. I’m thinking of course of the Bush protest manual easily findable on Google now, and the “Big Lie” partisanship that people like Karl Rove implemented; think: draft-dodger Bush attacking John Kerry’s war record; Bush running on ‘accountability’; ergo, The Big Lie)
I agree that it is such a shame what has happened to the “Tories”. A party that birthed our first Prime Minister, who were all fiercely loyal to the Queen and in protecting Canadian sovereignty…in 2007, that’s all just history.
The Hon. Garth Turner:
I attended your Milton Forum on Trusts. On that particular occasion, my wife stayed in the car … for approximately two hours, during which time a group of unidentified males scurried from car to car, placing yellow cards on the windshields.
My wife rolled down the driver’s window to ask, “What’re you doing?” Our puppy, rather large, at 90 lbs., roared in disapproval … I think they headed back up the down escalator, because my wife said they disappeared immediately.
One day, one of them will make a serious misstep at a meeting, where one of the more aggressive of us is present.
I met one of ‘them’ today on my new job as a Wal-Mart greeter. After my traditional and cheerful, “how are you today,” I received a “WTF is that to you?” I later watched the same individual giving a hard time to one of the stockers. Apparently he thought Wal-Mart people are supposed to provide carry-out.
Some time ago, I spoke of the major hit we had suffered in our RRSP account, due to Harper’s broken promise. Rather than place a burden on my children, I looked for a job to supplement our much-diminished monthly income. I was offered the job at Wal-Mart, although I would have preferred a position with Home Depot.
So when you see the CIBC ads dealing with choices … “Tuscany or Provence?” it’s a whole further step downward to a the income-limited reality of Elliot Lake or Chatham.
Are CRAP people now suggesting I should say “THANKS” to Harper, Flaherty and all the 2006 CPC candidates who lied to us?
Theo:
Your question:
“If a blogger person “makes stuff up†about the conduct or character of another person, because it’s in writing and in the public domain, does that not open him/her to libel (to publish false and malicious statements about somebody that damage his or her reputation) charges?”
Short answer – yes.
Longer answer: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1343
[Esther probably scoffed because Garth maintained remarkable constraint with these kids in RUSH t-shirts.]
By Geoffrey L. on 08.21.07 4:38 pm
Esther, thank you for the inside info. Well, if this is the worst behaviour Garth is capable of, I almost wish we could clone him.
Regardless, the mention of these naive twits bringing down my favourite band as a fringe wing of near fanatics upsets me terribly. But since the topic of fear and whatnot is brought up, I guess I might as well let us read this and ponder it. The song was written in early 1980 on the Moving Pictures album, and let me tell you, it was almost a near true ecstatic experience for me to hear this song played in Calgary. So without further ado…
Witchunt (lyrics by Neil Peart)
The night is black
Without a moon.
The air is thick and still.
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torchlit hill.
Features distorted in the flickering light,
The faces are twisted and grotesque.
Silent and stern in the sweltering night,
The mob moves like demons possesed.
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right,
Confident their ways are best.
The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will.
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill.
They say there are strangers who threaten us,
Our immigrants and infidels.
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves.
Those who know what’s best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.
Quick to judge,
Quick to anger,
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand…
After listening to a radio interview, the drummer had said that the songs he wrote were, by and large against fanaticism and fundamentalism, hebrew, islamic as well as that of christian organizations. While I am not against any one’s beliefs, I am against a large enough organization that can become political.
Enjoy your day…
By Charles Oxley on 08.21.07 7:33 pm
Grand post Charles! I can never make up my mind which of these 2, I embrace more.
“If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
-Samuel Adams
“Why stand we here idle? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God! I know not what course others may take;
but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!”
-Patrick Henry
Somebody should tell Harper that he just isn’t a funny guy, no matter how hard he tries! His interplanetary highway joke, his jelly-bean comment…Chretien was the master…Harper just hasn’t got it. And while they’re at it, maybe they could point out that after he does “the button” he doesn’t need to pat his tum-tum like Santa just to see if it’s still there. It’s still there.
Bene D
Thanks for the answer and the link to the article.
KH,
retired military, Ottawa.
(Mac is still better).
By Charles Oxley on 08.21.07 11:58 pm
Permission to allow?
ALLOWED!
Some food for thought on party politics and operatives –
The best depiction of what makes parties and operatives tick I have read is Arthur Koestler’s “Darkness at Noonâ€, a work of fiction based on the reality of Stalin’s elimination of dedicated Communist operatives left on a tangent after the Party changed direction in the 1930’s. Definitely not outdated, as the use of “creative fiction†to smear Garth shows.
Another insight of how parties work was offered by Propaganda Minister Goebbels in off-the-cuff remarks after a briefing to reporters, also in the ‘30s. He denied that the National Socialists had had a plan or platform when they came to power; they simply wanted to get into power, and then see what they could do with it. (This is not to compare neo-Cons to Nazis, but to point out the verifiable fact that election platforms largely are irrelevant to what a party does in power.)
Dirty tricks are an historic feature of our party politics. Think messing with election posters, heckling at gatherings, Chretien’s face, Harper’s scariness, and the latest development – blog comments.
Above all, it’s professional/political, not personal. When a Catherine, Allen or Garvin get in your face, it’s to score points for their CPC, has nothing to do with you, and should not be taken personally.
And come to think of it, digital democracy à la Garth may be a way of corralling partisanship. Instant, wide exposure negates the ignorance propaganda thrives on.
there are two red dyes commonly used as food colourings — one is banned in Canada because it is considered a cancer carcinogen. Things trivialized can come back to bite!
By Pat. G. on 08.21.07 10:27 pm
Thanks for that comment. I caught it after my post. red Dye # something has been a controversial issue in the States as well for decades.
There the lobbyists buy off the legislators to protect their profits. Here we have scientists making the decisions.
Another reason we do NOT want to merge with the U.S. and their poorer standards.
Harper thinks its a great idea to abandon Canadian packaging standards so his industry buddies don’t have to deal with them going South while the rest of the world does.
That’s not a level playing field. Its a sell-out.
Libel?
RE: By KH on 08.21.07 9:05 pm
KH,
I’m retired from the rat race; occupied enjoyably with indolence for many years, and hopeful for a few more. At least until I may vote once again.
BTW, I think both Sean and Pyotr were altar boys and one of them was abused.
GP
KH – 35 years old (I know, you didn’t ask – but I think it’s relevant), Accountant (work for an NPO charity), live in Cambridge, ON – grew up in Manitoba (till 27)
Harper’s comments with regard to “jelly beans” unlines the cavalier attitudes of neo-Conservatives to product safety. The same attitude underlies the lowering of standards for pesticide residue of produce.
The whole idea of “buyer beware” takes on new meaning when government leaders take on the role of hand maiden to business. As I have suggested elsewhere, Under this philosopher the only check on business is the civil courts. This is done with the knowledge of the cost and difficulty of linking a specific product with a negative impact. With the large number of harmful products, both knowingly and unknowingly being introduced into the market place, the ability of buyers to be aware is eliminated from the marketplace.
In the past we trusted government to have the best interests of the citizens in mind but that has changed over the past decades. Now People are becoming more and more suspicious that their health, safety, and security is being sacrificed for business profits. Government is not on our side but on the side of the corporate interests.
Anyone who thinks that the SPP has anything to do with product safety has not been following the issue. Product safety has only has become an issue since the problems have reached such a level that they could not be ignored and they are not confined to products from the third world.
By C. B. Innes on 08.22.07 12:57 pm
I certainly would not describe China as being a Third World nation, if you are inferring that?
Silly question time but I gotta ask it. Judging from the posted pictute there appears to be a good selection of older/grey hair/bald individuals attending the meeting (nothing wrong with said people cause I am in their camp as well). Why would any young male bother hanging around such a group to disrupt and make a genuine a—of themselves. When I was their age many moons ago our motto was to get as far away as possible from such a gathering of grey hair, ditto for my current twenty odd something male and his multitude of friends now.
Maybe these young fellas who disrupted the meeting can’t get a girlfriend because of poor social skills amongst their peers and perhaps they don’t like animals as well…………
By Neil on 08.22.07 5:04 pm
THX-1138 LIVES! LOL
Re: comments by Bill-Muskoka on 08.22.07 4:58 pm
It depends on how you define “third world.” If you refer to its working conditions, incomes, environmental and other standards then I believe my comment is fair.
If you merely gauge it by its growth in GDP than you would be correct in leaving China out.
The question is whether we are willing to accept the outcome of secret negotiations designed to down grade the advances we have made in incomes, health, safety, the environment, and so on in order to make North American corporations competitive with the China and other parts of the world.
This is why the whole process is so secretative. I don’t believe that North Americans are willing to make that kind of sacrifice to the right wing corporate agenda and those pushing this agenda know it.
By C. B. Innes on 08.22.07 8:13 pm
There is more to life than GDP, and China has had a real civilization for 6 millenia. It is we who are the new kids on the block, and we have not done as good of job as we like to give ourselves credit for.
China has some of the highest technical manufacturing in the world, as well as artistry in product manufacturing.
They are the Silent Giant, and North America, while it staggers around pissing into the wind with an ‘I’ centred attitude, has seen its day, shipped it overseas, and thinks it can live on paper wealth without making anything.
I am not praising China, but I am being very objective in my analysis C.B.
I fear we are suffering the Roman Ego Syndrome. We made great advances, then sat on our arses and said ‘See how great we are!’ Reality tends to ignore such boisterous mannerisms, and tomorrow may be a very different day.
Theo:
Your question:
“If a blogger person “makes stuff up†about the conduct or character of another person, because it’s in writing and in the public domain, does that not open him/her to libel (to publish false and malicious statements about somebody that damage his or her reputation) charges?â€
Short answer – yes.
Longer answer: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1343
By Bene D on 08.22.07 6:16 am
If it is indeed so, I await the legal proceedings.