Caution: Not exactly as illustrated.
The big news was that vandals had broken two teats off the big concrete cow which stands over LaBroquerie, Manitoba. The other big news was that PMSH has suspended Parliament for a month, so the Ontario election can be out of the way for a new Con agenda in October, a confidence vote and (he hopes) an election.
Okay, so some news is more significant than others, but the lesson is, you can never lose perspective. So my first Town Hall in this prairie town of a thousand or so was a useful one, with supply management, the Canadian Whet Board, trade subsidies and taxes on the agenda. We talked for an hour and a half, then retreated to the back of the room for dainties.
Two hours later in Winnipeg I faced a room of Liberal party faithful for an hour, answering questions while two of my MP colleagues looked on, then the doors were opened for a Town Hall, as we were joined by a third. As I did my dog-&-pony for the crowd, I was acutely aware that Anita Neville, Ray Simard and Tina Keeper were elected as Manitoba Liberals eighteen months ago, while I was elected as an Ontario Conservative. My journey here has been a twisted and oft-times tortuous one, but I have no doubt the path I am on is the right one.
Reinforcing that was the Harper decision today to prorogue Parliament, delaying the return to Ottawa to mid-October. The reason is transparent: PMSH needs to regroup. The government fared badly in the last few weeks of the last session. The Afghan war grinds on. There has been no substantive work done on the green plan. The US subprime mess has cost jobs in Oshawa and could push our trading partner into recession. The Montebello summit was marred by cops posing as hoodlums. Income trust investors are still pissed. Canadians have long since forgotten the “five priorities.†The environment (not one of the priorities) is the public’s chief concern, and it is probably mere weeks before all anyone wants to talk about is the economy.
The polls show voters are still not willing to give anyone unfettered power, and the recent cabinet shuffle was a bust. I mean, do you know what Madame Verner’s new job is?
So, time for a new agenda, and then a big decision for Stephane Dion, Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. Do they bring down this minority government, or bide their time? Do they let PMSH have second run at goosing his popularity, or just sit back and let the government accumulate baggage? Will two more years make Dion stronger and Harper more vulnerable? Or vice versa?
My current thinking is that (a) the US slowdown and spillover into Canada will hurt the Conservatives, (b) they are bound to disappoint on the environmental front, (c) the Afghanistan quagmire will probably become more costly and complex and (d) they currently have the financial and organizational superiority. So, I’m thinkin’ this throne speech is a veiled election call.
But what do I know? I thought there were four teats gone.
See you in Regina.
101 comments ↓
Hi Garth,
I would say that with everyone you have been talking with this summer, and everyone Dion has spoken with and everyone all the other Lib MP and assorted well trusted folks have spoken with; the word would be, YES, we are ready for an election.
Let’s get rid of this fool and his muzzled monkeys before he does more damage. Harper is hurting Canada. This nuclear thing with Bush being just the latest. I shudder to think.
A question? Have the other MPs, like the ones attending this TH, not thought of doing something similar on their own? I’ll bet mine, Don Bell in NV, never did:)
So great that you are, and that Mrs. Turner is with you. Hope all is going well and the journey is not too tiring.
See you later this week.
Geo
ps: I did notice when I bopped over to SJ’s blog to check out the excitement, that our old friend “observer” had found a home there. Sadly, he has been reduced to one liners. Not the long and wordy diatribes we were subject to, but he does have a home, lowly as it is.
Hey Garth, I’d be interested in knowing what local folks out west think of the Wheat Board. I heard the former head of the Wheat Board interviewed on TV. His view was that the Harper Conservatives had used an improper survey, and combined question responses to try and manufacture the results they wanted in order to moth ball the Wheat Board. His view was that farmers choose the board members and to date, they have consistently chosen ‘one board’ representation meaning that they do not want to dismantle the board. What did you hear?
It doesn’t sound like your first town hall generated a lot of Conservative venom so far. I guess we’ll wait until you hit Alberta for that!
As far as the election call goes – a news clip after the Liberal caucus meeting indicated that internal Liberal polls showed that they could win the next election, but only if they presented fresh ideas etc. to the Canadian public. Bitching about Harper would not be enough. It will be interesting to see what the Opposition parties do. For thing’s for sure…if we see a rash of “Dion’s not a leader” ads again, we can bet Harper is pushing for an election.
Sharp biting humour as always Garth – Caution: Not exactly as illustrated – excellent! As for the proroguement of Parliament – any advantage to either the government or to the Opposition until October. I remain confident that there are more than a few points to be made by the Liberals. This present government may only need more time to continue on the path to self-destruction. Right now, PMSH should realize that time is not working in his favour.
Good luck with the rest of the Western Tour – I look forward to your summaries.
Good Overview, Keep em sweet and simple Garth, “Just the Facts” one stop at a time, the final round up will be the tell all.
Thanks….
So, time for a new agenda, and then a big decision for Stephane Dion, Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. Do they bring down this minority government, or bide their time? Do they let PMSH have second run at goosing his popularity, or just sit back and let the government accumulate baggage? – Garth
Its been said many times, the CAnadaian people know that the three opposition parties can make the New Government old anytime they like. For those who want an election to remove PMSH, any of the three that don’t vote against the throne speech will gather their own baggage. Dioan and LAyton will vote against. So what is the state of the Bloq in Quebec?
BTW. Before any Cons start complaining about “My current thinking is that (a) the US slowdown and spillover into Canada will hurt the Conservatives,”, this is a case of being in government at the wrong time, an occupational hazzard. Same can’t be said of the other issues though or how the government handles the situation.
Last time I checked it was the opposition parties that were doing all the blustering about an election – including Mr. Dion. It’s cheap politics all the way.
Mr. “Climate Change Fighter” wants to return income trusts to the oil and gas sector after blasting the government about giving tax breaks to that very sector. Not very smart, not at all.
Well the three opposing leaders are playing politics Stephen Harper and his bumbling Ministers are destroying my country. Do Layton ,Duceppe, and Dion care about Canadas future or their own partys futures more?
how many at the meeting?
Put poor PMSH out of his misery -
“A senior Conservative explained the decision to end the session as one born of frustration at the combative state of the current Parliament. Harper, the Tory said, is ‘stymied and he can’t do anything’.” (http://www.thestar.com/News/article/253252)
So, time for a new agenda, and then a big decision for Stephane Dion, Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. Do they bring down this minority government, or bide their time? Do they let PMSH have second run at goosing his popularity, or just sit back and let the government accumulate baggage? Will two more years make Dion stronger and Harper more vulnerable? Or vice versa?
My current thinking is that (a) the US slowdown and spillover into Canada will hurt the Conservatives, (b) they are bound to disappoint on the environmental front, (c) the Afghanistan quagmire will probably become more costly and complex and (d) they currently have the financial and organizational superiority. So, I’m thinkin’ this throne speech is a veiled election call.
posted by Garth Turner on 09.05.07 @ 12:46 am |
…………………………………
So where does your IT Tour fit into all that confusing mess?
In a minority government, every Throne Speech is prepared with an eye for an election, so what’s so ‘veiled’ about that?
CTV Mike Duffy, also out west in Calgary, revealed on Rob Breakenridge’s talk radio show that there are four camps actively forming in the Liberal ranks.
A large Ignatieff camp, a large Rae camp, a small Dion camp .. and surprise, surprise, a Brian Tobin camp !! I assume you are in Dion’s camp and ostensiably going down the tube with him. Good thing you got in your western tour to show your worth to the Liberal party.
“There’s no whore like an old whore …” (who said that about politicians?)
There are two Throne speechs, one if John Tory and the Conservatives break through in Ontario and the other if they don’t. If Tory dos get in in Ontario you can count on a Federal election ASAP
Forget the teats, who will find the biggest opposition balls of them all to vote the CRAP down?
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Clancy_Roy/2007/09/05/4470745.php
Garth:
Colour me a skeptic here, but all this Bush and Aussie neclearn talk stuff, could the fact PMSH is so keen on Miltary Base in the North be a screen for a nuclear waste dump, on goverment controlled land, hmmmm just a wild thought.
Myron, my dear lad, Mike want-a-be Senator of CTV on a radio show, get real buddy. Even Peter, I did not call her dog boy has more class than that.
Ah, the PM represents ALL of Canada – so why is he interfering with Ontario politics? This is not appropriate at all.
About Mike Duffy – he’s becoming the scuzz of the MSM – he and Jane Taber are a joke. I think they both should retire. Duffy obviously wants to stir up poop about the Liberals – he’s obsessed with it. He considers himself a journalist? I think the two of them should be working for the Inquirer – they are disgraceful – but then CTV has to favour conservatives when the owners are conservative and baby boy Mulroney works there – they’re told what to do – lean conservative.
Re: comments by Myron on 09.05.07 7:48 am
The problem with media people like Mike Duffy is that they are anything but non-partisan. He generally supports whatever party is in power although I understand he is by family tradition a Conservative. Most media people like Duffy are part of the informal political establishment in Ottawa who are constantly “used” to generate certain impressions through “leaked” information.
No Liberal partisan would leak that kind of information to Duffy even if it was true. The problem is that most parties have their spies who use their position within an opponent’s party to “leak” what they hope will be damaging to that party. It does not have to be true. It may be a highly unethical form of politics and journalism but obviously it is seen as effective and all part of the “game”.
Like I said yesterday
Ah, now we have the picture of what Harper intends to really do THRONE SPEECH! Will that be delivered in the HoC or from his 24 Sussex Dr. bathroom?
What a crock of transparent BS!
Garth, I hope nobody sits back to let the current government accumulate (more) baggage. Letting it continue on its current tack without challenge is dangerous to Canadians, to the environment and to the world.
Mr. Harper has shown to be very adept at forwarding a conservative agenda without majority support and mandate. Consider this sampling of “accomplishments” while in a minority:
- Cancelling the Kelowna Accord
- Neutering the Atlantic Accord
- Ignoring the Kyoto Protocol
- Cancelling the National Childcare Program
- Passing legislation that assaults the environment — “Clean Air Actâ€
- Acquisition of military equipment that integrates seamlessly with the US military, including the soon to be purchase of new F35 fighters
Mr. Harper is undermining Canadian values almost every day. His current aligning of Canada’s military approach and machinery with that of the US, his rolling back numerous basic regulatory protections and his recent promise to shut down the wheat board “no matter what” clearly show Mr. Harper’s vision and direction.
We can be stronger, more prosperous and have a more effective government that promotes mutual responsibility and provides a better future for Canadians. It’s time for the opposition to take back Canada.
-R
Litigation, swaps, baskets, lawyers and your pension – the shell game gathers speed. Watch their sleeves. Beware the Undertoad.
Nuclear waste to be stored in the same place as toxic subprime loans…nobody would ever come near them.
This thing is picking up steam baby. Go Garth go!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070904/liberals_trusts_070904/20070904?hub=Politics
By David Bakody on 09.05.07 8:18 am
Colour me a skeptic here, but all this Bush and Aussie neclearn talk stuff.
WEll sir,with Cheney heading out to sell his war drum beat to any who will listen and Bush crying crocodile tears for only reasons known to him,although emotionally and mentally unbalanced might fit,anything is possible.
One thing is for certain,if they do bomb Iran,and disrupt the 3.5 million barrels of daily oil output,and if the Iranian National Gaurd,though reeling from such an attack can still fire missiles at oil tankers in the sea and gulf of Oman.Then the cost of driving and heating,transportaion costs for necessities like FOOD,will skyrocket even if at least temporarily.Certainly food for thought.
I watched Mike Duffy a few times late last spring or early summer.That was enough.I certainly would never decide a vote on anything said on that program.
As to whether the Ontario provincial election will dictate what happens federally,I would suggest these by-elections in QC might figure in whether Mr.Dion would want one anytime soon.
On the lighter side this morning.On Jay Leno last night he was doing his weekly “Headlines” segment and showed a story dealing with the US election and primaries,which stated something or another would depend on how Americans voted in two states.One I think was Iowa and the other CANADA.
All I could think was moron writer or smart writer/SPP
Garth:
I am not sure how things work in Ottawa as do many Canadians. So, PMSH holds off the Fall Session until October, does that mean an extented vaction at taxpayers expense? Perhaps the fact Reforms have not spoken up means that is not the fact because they would hoppin mad!
Ted Brownie…..Right on brother you are on the right track, by the way, should the US be so dam stupid, they know they will loose one aircraft carrier at least in process. And what the hell there is always plenty of food on the table for the rich & powerful. George “Dubya Bush, and George Armstrong Custer have same first name a reasons and it ain’t good news bye.
Oh by the way the newest fade is for all of us “Canadains” to identify ourselves by dropping the “A” when we mention the US, cause we ain’t no part of their America.
The bad news: Nobody knows exactly how much the risk is or who has it.
The good news: It’s spread all over the world.
Q&A: Bankers at a loss to add up the bill
The constants in the equation: lawyers will make money, taxpayers will take the hit, profiteers have sailed away
Yes, lots of people actually care that Verner does her job better than Bev Oda did, and with Bernier out of Industry… well there might have been hope.
Unfortunatly it doesn’t look like we’ll get to how the new heritage/industry combo stacks up on things like Net Neutrality and copyright.
Support the troops campaign ‘suppresses dissent,’ say experts
—-
Jeez…did a doppleganger substitute Harper with an evil twin?
There are two Throne speechs, one if John Tory and the Conservatives break through in Ontario and the other if they don’t. If Tory dos get in in Ontario you can count on a Federal election ASAP
By Stephen Smith on 09.05.07 7:52 am
You could be correct about the CPC thinking on the timing of Onatrio’s election and waiting until after for the throne speech.
But, if that is how they think, they don’t understand Ontario. Remember Ontario elected a conservative Premier, Mike Harris, while at the same time electing Liberal feds.
Just because we vote one way provincially doesn’t mean we vote the same Federally. So once again the CPC strategists are out to lunch!
It is difficult to gage what the average Canadian is thinking these days but from what I hear there was a complete lack of enthusiasm for the opening night of the Turner tour.Some of the local sheep may show up but most of us know what is good for us and there is not much good in listening to Turner`s ego.—- unless you are one of the sheep.
Nothing to get excited about. Harper is just trying to start over again on his programs. Now that we have confirmation that all of the leaders are just short of total incompetence, I doubt we’ll see an election until the next official date.
Time for all to read! & Think.
The system of institutions is still grander and more computerized, but it seems to have lost its morale. The baronial corporations are making immense amounts of money and are more openly and heavily subsidized by the monarch in Washington. The processing of the young is extended for longer years and its tempo speeded up. More capital and management are exported, interlocking within international capital and more of the world (including Canada) is brought under American control. When necessary, remarkable military technology is brought to bear. At home, there is no political check, for no matter what the currents of opinion, by and large the dominant system wreaks its will, managing the parliamentary machinery to look like consensus.
Paul Goodman, The Empty Society, Massy Lectures 1966!
The CONS are sweating!
It’s the Silence of the Crap. A lot of PUFFIN going on in CRAP ATTACK HEADQUARTERS. This will be a greater implosion than the Joe Clark era. LMASO big time. That is what the Crappoids get for fibbing and blackouts.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Have you seen this Sept.4/07,
special comment:You have no remaining credibility about Iraq, sir.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/04/countdown-special-comment-you-have-no-remaining-credibility-about-iraq-sir/
I think this is relative,
President Eisenhowers farwell address/WARNING to the Nation.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html
Cheney orders media to sell attack on Iran.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/040907_cheney_orders.htm
What the USA Constitution says about Iraq.
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2007/09/04/in-any-case/
Is there any way we Canadian and our Government can help infewance, Stop this WAR Madness on our only planet earth! What a waste of resources and human potental.
(Not that Canada has clean hand as we all like to think, we manufacture lots of weapons for the world markets also.
why, for the profits/gready men in charge.)
I don’t think PMSH will even try to stop WAR, he seem to be in bed with the Bush, neo-cons, new world order, war mongers, gang, criminals, they are all mad lieing sociopathes!
If we the people are to mantain any control over this evil people though a free and fare vote.
We need to never vote on a machine or count our votes by machine, you’ve heard of hakers haven’t you?
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, (This maybe a second try, not sure the first one went
though.)
Have you seen this Sept.4/07,
special comment:You have no remaining credibility about Iraq, sir.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/04/countdown-special-comment-you-have-no-remaining-credibility-about-iraq-sir/
I think this is relative,
President Eisenhowers farwell address/WARNING to the Nation.
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html
Cheney orders media to sell attack on Iran.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/040907_cheney_orders.htm
What the USA Constitution says about Iraq.
http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2007/09/04/in-any-case/
Is there any way we Canadian and our Government can help infewance, Stop this WAR Madness on our only planet earth! What a waste of resources and human potental.
(Not that Canada has clean hand as we all like to think, we manufacture lots of weapons for the world markets also.
why, for the profits/gready men in charge.)
I don’t think PMSH will even try to stop WAR, he seems to be in bed with the Bush, neo-cons, new world order, war mongers, gang, criminals, they are all(most) mad lieing sociopathes!
If we the people are to mantain any control over this evil people though a free and fare vote.
We need to never vote on a machine or count our votes by machine, you’ve heard of hakers haven’t you?
By Stephen Smith on 09.05.07 7:52 am
Not much chance of Tory getting in, I think he shot himself in the foot with the funding of religious schools, a very dangerous idea to separate children in a multicultural society.
Well, here we go again with the MSM wanting to exclude the Green Party from the Provincial Debates. They are currently at 11% and have a LOT to say.
Had enough of the MSM’s myopia? Sign the petition and speak out. Let Frank IN!
By R White on 09.05.07 12:25 pm
Well there is one independent view! LMAO…
For those who missed my Globe posting:
Here’s a transcript of some of what Mike Duffy said on Rob Breakenridge’s (Calgary) radio show last night:
‘And maybe just maybe the spectacle of what he [Harper] sees going on inside the Liberal Party which is not that apparent to the public yet, but which is fairly apparent here up close is that you have two or three camps.
You’ve got the bob rae camp, the ignatieff camp, and a very, very tiny dion camp, and lurking on the outside … ta daaa … Captain Canada, Brian Tobin ! Tobin is moving back to Ottawa from Toronto. And there is a lot of people here who say he’d be an ideal replacement as Liberal leader.
So, I think Stephen Harper is going to give the Liberals time to get their knives well and truly sharpened so they can work on each other and he can try and put some stuff in the window that Canadians will like. I mentioned the economy, I mentioned the environment, I mentioned productivity, I forgot to mention violent crime.
It’s interesting that the Conservatives have been able to work a compromise with the NDP on getting tough with violent criminals. But they have not been able to make any compromise with the Liberals. The Liberals want nothing done to change the criminal code related to violent crime.
And that is an area where I think Stephen Harper feels that (one) they’ve been strong, and (two) their research shows he has a bit of a weakness among women who don’t find him warm and fuzzy. But if he stands up against sexual predators, pushing a tough on crime agenda, the Conservatives think that that will win over a lot of women … they think thats a big sleeper issue as well.’
Mike Duffy Live returns to CTV on Sept. 21st.
I would think all of our Prime Ministers that had contact with the Bush cabal experienced difficulty getting phone calls returned if they dared disagree with this bunch of neocon renegades.
They’re ripped up the US Constitution and made their own laws. And I’m not convinced a change of administration makes them saner. I.e. the Democrats have blue dogs, and lobbyists among them. Greed taints politicians as it does corporations.
Our leaders as well as the American population are held hostage by these cretins. No wonder there is a proliferation of Conservative governments around the world. Voters sense (and are manipulated with propaganda) that they need to elect representatives speaking similar language. Problem is once these comparable-speaking representatives are elected, the electorate realize they made a mistake. Harper isn’t totally to blame for aligning Canadian policy with American interests (he must have a gun to his head). If only he didn’t relish his role, I would emphathize with him. But Harper’s driven, obsessive, personality along with his inability to communicate with people causes me to conclude he lacks ethics. Being a conservative backbencher or a cabinet minister must be hell. I do not feel sorry for them because their first loyalty should be to the electorate. Very few MP’s walked across the floor or became independents. Some may have stayed thinking they’d be able to moderate their toxic leaders, but which ones? Who knows…some may believe the present leadership is temporary and ride out the storm. I do know my present conservative MP is a scumbag not deserving of the votes he received. My job is ensuring he doesn’t keep the letters, “MP†after his name. That’s all any of us can do. They’re weren’t many votes separating him and the Liberal candidate in the 2006 election.
pjw,
Yep…my conclusion too which means the electorate again have wear a clothespeg on their nose when they go to the polls. Pity!
Re: comments by By Stephen Smith on 09.05.07 7:52 am and pjw on 09.05.07 1:23 pm
I must say that Tory’s support of the teaching of “creationism” in religious schools is shocking.
It appears that a number of Progressive Conservatives provincial leaders are moving to the far right in tandom with the federal Conservative Party. That was apparent in the case of Lord in NB and and Binns in PEI. Of all the Atlantic provinces NB is the most right wing and even there the more Lord moved to the right the less popular he became.
Once PCs adopt the language of neo-conservatism they are on a slippery slope. I have been extremely disappointed with John Tory because I thought he was a progressive conservative when he won the leadership of the Ontario Party but he is showing himself to be a new Conservative.
It will be interesting how this kind of conservatism sells in Ontario. As a PC if I lived in Ontario I would not vote for the PCs under Tory.
You could be correct about the CPC thinking on the timing of Ontario’s election and waiting until after for the throne speech.
But, if that is how they think, they don’t understand Ontario. Remember Ontario elected a conservative Premier, Mike Harris, while at the same time electing Liberal feds.
Just because we vote one way provincially doesn’t mean we vote the same Federally. So once again the CPC strategists are out to lunch!
McGinty isn’t much liked and Tory, well name another Conservative who’s running with him (I can’t either) so its kind of a saw off.
By James – Chatham on 09.05.07 12:23 pm
I know, but they just might want to take a leap, given possible future economic jolts and Afghanistan plus other factors. This could be the best chance
Not much chance of Tory getting in, I think he shot himself in the foot with the funding of religious schools, a very dangerous idea to separate children in a multicultural society.
I 100% agree on that. I want to see how much he down plays it or forgets it altogether in the coming weeks. Personally I want a holiday in the summer, February, come on Dalton!
By pjw on 09.05.07 1:23 pm
Nothing to get excited about. Harper is just trying to start over again on his programs. Now that we have confirmation that all of the leaders are just short of total incompetence, I doubt we’ll see an election until the next official date.
By Bill R on 09.05.07 12:37 pm
Are you trying to give us nightmares? Your hypothosis may be correct. The result PMSH continues as is, doing as he wants, no consultation, no accountability, no transparency because the rest are too frightened to bring about an election. And if the throne speech is passed, PMSH has the brain cells to know it!
Not much chance of Tory getting in, I think he shot himself in the foot with the funding of religious schools, a very dangerous idea to separate children in a multicultural society.
By pjw on 09.05.07 1:23 pm
So all the Catholics in Ontario who went to public Catholic school are having a hard time fitting into Ontario’s multi-cultural society? Might explain why McGuinty is such a tool.
I thought John Tory might have been a good mayor for Toronto. In fact he would have been my second choice.
After having heard him speak to a well-recognized group,(something like the Canadian Club, Chamber of Commerce for To. or Empire Club maybe) on CPAC months and months ago, I realized he was a very disingenuous, opportunistic partisan who used the opportunity to slag the Liberals and nothing else. Every time I have heard him or read about him since, he has spun half-truths into dishonest allegations against the Libs. Sometimes I would like to think there are some honourable people in the PC’s and there surely must be some but I have lost my respect for Mr. Tory, Maybe he is getting advice from the likes of Tom Long and the old Harrisites. Toronto and Ontario deserve better. He has been campaigning since he became PC leader. Only recently has he been putting out any policy and it is only reacting to the Lib. position for political purposes for the most part.
Be careful, Ontario!
Bafflegab from other side of the fence
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/
THE FALL OF GOVERNMENT…a primer
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-73-2149-13105/politics_economy/joe_clark/clip6
Ted – on another lighter side:
“Before the 2001 inauguration of George Bush, he was invited to a get acquainted our of the White House.
fter drinking several glasses of iced tea, he asked President Bill Clinton if he could use his personal bathroom.
When he entered Clinton’s private toilet, he was astonished to see that President Clinton had a solid gold urinal.
That afternoon, George told his wife, Laura, about the urinal.
“Just think,” he said, “when I am President, I could have a gold urinal, too. But I wouldn’t do something so self-indulgent!”
Later, when Laura had lunch with Hillary at her tour of the White House, she told Hillary how impressed George had been at his discovery of the fact that, in his private bathroom, the President had a gold urinal.
That evening, when Bill and Hillary were getting ready for bed, Hillary smiled,and said to Bill:
“I found out who pissed in your saxophone”"
So all the Catholics in Ontario who went to public Catholic school are having a hard time fitting into Ontario’s multi-cultural society? Might explain why McGuinty is such a tool.
By Reid on 09.05.07 2:53 pm
Nice sarcasm Ried, but the truth is, there is a division in many areas where there are public and Catholic schools, like the one school I was in. In Quebec it was even more divisive. I might also add that the agenda for the evangelization in the faith based schools is not controlled by the government but the faith community. The religious education curriculum is overseen by the government but you cen certainly evangelize outside the classroom. Now, in today’s environment, are you willing to allow anyone and everyone to set the tone?
Might explain why McGuinty is such a tool.
By Reid on 09.05.07 2:53 pm
One other thing reid, he is not a tool, he is a liar and he won’t be getting my vote for sure but that has nothing to do with John Tory. In fact, if John hadn’t proposed the faith based schools i was consdiering voting for him but to me that is not an option any longer.
McGinty isn’t much liked and Tory, well name another Conservative who’s running with him (I can’t either) so its kind of a saw off.
By James – Chatham on 09.05.07 12:23 pm
As quoted By Stephen Smith on 09.05.07 2:41 pm
I think you messed up your cut and paste as this addendum wasn’t typed by me. Personally, I like Mr. McGuinty, but more to the point I like my MPP. Pat Hoy (who incidentally was the only candidate who showed up at my door, not even a party worker from the rest of them!) and who, unlike his federal counterpart actually works for his constituants.
Don’t raise the contraversial health tax, or I’ll raise the unbalanced balanced budget, along with service cuts, bad water, education chaos, health care mess etc..etc..etc..left by Harris/Eves (and Finance Minister Flaherty!)
Hey there Pat; you say you ‘lost’ respect for Mr. Tory? How can you lose something you’ve never had? Mike Harris was the best thing that could have ever happened to this province, actually, way things are going, I wish he were running. Ontario was on the very brink of bankruptsy and in no time, Mike turned us around to being the strongest performing province in this country. He made some very tough decisions, ones that took balls. McGimpy is wishy-washy and forever changing his mind. The liberals have reduced our productivity and reduced our economic standing, all the while raising taxes they said they’d never raise. Our new ‘health tax’ would have been a good idea, if the tax was going to health and not the general coffers. One of the most mindless things achieved by this government was changing Ontario’s Trillium logo to one of three men in a hot tub. What did that joke cost us? Oh brother!
I still haven’t figured out if Mr. Tory can measure up to Mike. However, he is the best choice we have currently.
L
By Captain George on 09.05.07 3:11 pm
The reason that large corporations hire people like Manley is because of their political and media connections. Manley is paid to represent special interests. Unfortunately, the media never indicates that Manley’s views are not objective or unbiased but are meant to “spin” a certain issue on behalf of those who pay him to do so.
There are many Liberals like Manley, or Anne MacLellan for example, who are as far right wing economically as any new Conservative.
Garth
Please give us your thoughts on John Tory’s creationism comments today.
So, Garth, you talked about the wheat board. What exactly did you talk about? Did you talk about how the wheat board hand cuffs farmers, in western Canada only, in their ability to sell their product to whom they wish, when they wish and for what price they want? Did you talk about how the wheat board has a political agenda to maintain socialized agriculture?
Farming in western Canada is unionized, producer controlled business. The last thing the wheat board wants is someone to be more successful than their neighbour.
Well, Garth, if you want to talk agriculture in western Canada, then you better talk about how to facilitate successful farming. The way to do that is to let farmers choose their market and negotiate their best deal.
Can’t do it now. Not under this archaic system of the wheat board. Not under the socialist banner. What banner are you flying Garth?
By C. B. Innes on 09.05.07 4:00 pm
Unfortunately, the media never indicates that Manley’s views are not objective or unbiased but are meant to “spin†a certain issue on behalf of those who pay him to do so.
Boy, I’m beginning to think you see a conspiracy in every pot. Good smear on John Manley, following Brent Fullard’s lead.
Say, here’s another former politician who is also a partner in a law firm, Peter Lougheed.
Who’s particular interests is he representing when he repeatedly criticizes the pace of development in the oilsands (saying slow down) or suggesting the royalty rates are too low.
Here’s a list to pick from:
E. Peter Lougheed is presently a partner in the Calgary law firm of Bennett, Jones, and Verchere and serves on the Board of Directors of the following organizations: ATCO Limited, Bechtel Canada Incorporated, Canadian Pacific Limited, Carlson Construction Limited, CFCN Communications Limited, DMR Group Incorporated, Luscar Limited, The Matthews Group, Norcen Energy Limited, Northern Telecom Limited, Princeton Developments Limited, PWA Corporation, Quorum Capital Corporation, Reed Stenhoues Companies Limited, and the Royal Bank of Canada. He also serves on the National Advisory Committe for the Banff School of Management, and is an adviser to the Government of the Northwest Territories. In the recent past, he served as Co-Chairman of the Canadian Alliance for Trade and Job Opportunities (1988) and Honorary Chairman of the XV Olympic Winter Games Organizing Committee (1987 and 1988).
http://www.abheritage.ca/abpolitics/people/prem_lougheed.html
So how come you didn’t answer this one ?
Were there not enough Liberals to enable you to count past 10 ?
how many at the meeting?
By Gary V on 09.05.07 7:45 am
What a crock of transparent BS!
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.05.07 9:08 am
lol Bill, Well, on one level I say TG for that!
But of course he’s got to stall for another month, after shutting everything down as early as possible. He has nothing to offer.
The Star article:
“Canadians gave us a mandate for change but we’re just getting started,” he said in a statement that did not give any hints about the way forward in the new session. Previously, he has said he will continue with the priorities set out in the last election rather than set a new policy agenda for the fall session.
He twisted the mandate the Canadian people gave him and he knows it. Accountability, Honesty, and that other one that never happened.
Harper forgets, most people don’t so much vote for someone as they vote against someone else. People were angry over Adscam and long Liberal rule. But now after 2 years of lies lies and more lies they once again have someone to vote against. So simple for so many.
Especially those touched by the IT scandal. Every person whose mom or dad who held trusts. Every aunt or uncle. Everyone who was considering it. Let alone those who lost it all. The CRAP-Cons can blame the victims all they want, but they will all vote. And those who just think the entire mess was evil and wrong will remember too and they will vote. Ya gotta love it.
I do wonder tho. The voiceless wonders from the Harper Party… what will they say when it’s time to try to get reelected?
Geo
I still haven’t figured out if Mr. Tory can measure up to Mike. However, he is the best choice we have currently.
L
By Angry Canadian on 09.05.07 3:51 pm
If they were in my riding, I would prefer Mr. Tory although the faith based school funding was a vote killer for me. I will not vote for liar McGuinty, so I have to look at the best candidate in my riding and forget about parties. Hopefully we will have an independent run here!
“Here’s a transcript of some of what Mike Duffy said on Rob Breakenridge’s (Calgary) radio show last night:”
Nobody really cares what Duffy had to say. Between him and Taber lining up to kiss Big Steve’s behind along with Gregg and his nosensical Tory push polls, CTV has lost ALL credibility with most of the Canadian electorate.
CTV’s agenda is quite transparent, they want the CRTC and the CBC wrapped up.
Hopefull Dion as PM will strengthen the regulatory mandate of the CRTC and significantly increase the funding to the CBC.
Pay backs a bitch.
Captain George – the light just came on about Ignatieff’s Puffin joke thanks to you. When he said they hide their excreement he meant the CRAP party – now I get it.
Leasa thinks Mike Harris was the best thing that ever happened to Ontario? Now I know she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
This whole faith based school thing – in the Constitution for 150 years – well, back in those days Protestants and Catholics hated each other. If a family member married out of their faith they were kicked out of the family. Then comes Bill Davis – the Catholic church threatened (the Cardinal of that time) that if he didn’t go along – he would not get the Catholic vote – it was a vote buy for Davis and an attempt at vote buying by Tory.
Angry Canadian:
I had some respect for Mr. Tory initially (I try to respect everyone unless something changes my mind), but subsequent to hearing him, I lost that bit of respect.
When I read parts of the Common Sense
Revolution, I though Harris would be O.K. but before his second term, I realized his ideology of small government and overkill in his cuts to too many programs, went too far.
His arrogance in his righteousness was similar to that of Mr. Harper’s. He could have turned our economy around without devastating our social programs. He thought because he cut welfare so drastically that those people just disappeared. Many of the most vulnerable just ended up on the streets and many of them were ill mentally.
It’s true, McGuinty shouldn’t have promised not to raise taxes. When the neo-con government was trying to sell Ontario’s assets to balance their budget, McGuinty should have known they were going in the red. (Although, maybe not because neo-cons don’t want government to own anything which taxpayers may have to maintain. This can be a short-sighted, ideologically-based policy however. i.e. the 407 highway.)
McGuinty did need the money he taxed for health care after he found out that the actual deficit position the P.C.’s left us in was about $5.6B. I do think the “health tax” should have gone directly into the budget for health care but I’m sure they have spent a huge amount on what they have done in this regard.
Mr. Tory saying the Liberals have failed to provide more doctors is bogus. The Liberals have a new training facility up north for doctors and have opened a lot of spaces in the south too. Unfortunately, doctors can’t be trained in a four-year term.
Another thing, the Harris gov’t. spent $9million, which they got from the feds for health care, on diagnostic equipment for a private company. The private company then wanted to (and did) close some clinics in smaller areas because they were not making the 23% profit they wanted. Ultimately, (probably after their stock getting a boost from this infusion of cash), this company sold out to a larger company. I don’t think it is right for taxpayers to subsidize health care businesses when they are in it just to profit off the suffering of taxpayers and yet not provide accessible services.
Btw, this company, as well, reportedly put some handsome donations into the campaigns of both the Premier and the Health Minister.
Maybe the Liberals aren’t perfect but I like where they are coming from a lot more and, actually, they have achieved quite a lot.
Boy, I’m beginning to think you see a conspiracy in every pot.
By Old Enough to Remember on 09.05.07 4:44 pm
I suppose it depends on your definition of conspiracy. One definition is: “a secret agreement to keep silent about an occurrence, situation, or subject esp. in order to promote or protect selfish interests.” Another source defines it as: “secret planning to do something unlawful or wrong.”
In a free society there is nothing wrong with representing special interests but there is also nothing wrong with drawing to people’s attention that is what an individual is doing. In most cases people do not recognize that pundits are paid representatives of certain interests. If you look at the interests that Manley represents you might actually understand his support for a certain corporate model.
You cannot transfer my comments about Manley to all other politicians, although as I suggested, many prominent politicians find in lucrative to accept that role.
Lougheed is a different individual and I have never seen the need to research his background because I must admit I have never seen or read about him presenting a specific point on economic issues.
However, with regard to Manley shortly after he left government he was often interviewed on economic issues as an independent pundit. Some of his comments at the time inspired me to do some research on what he was doing since leaving politics. That led me to the conclusion that he was representing the interests of specific corporations with which he was by that time associated.
PJW: “… there is a division in many areas where there are public and Catholic schools, like the one school I was in. In Quebec it was even more divisive”
really? in Quebec, we had one English board, one French. Not terribly divisive.
PJW – It would be great if you worked with a fact now and then.
but then, PJW, when you’re part of Garth’s army, the facts don’t matter.
Most of the bloggers here will already have seen this, but for those who haven’t — here’s another report.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_14417.aspx
By C. B. Innes on 09.05.07 6:26 pm
That led me to the conclusion that he was representing the interests of specific corporations with which he was by that time associated.
If I’m not mistaken, one of the most common professions of those entering the HofC is a lawyer.
And no doubt, if they return to practicing law, after putting their careers on hold to do their public service, a number of their clients will be corporate (doubtful they would return to civil or criminal law).
I think it is therefore very tenuous to suggest that their opinions on matters of public interest, based upon their years of public service, are somehow automatically tainted by their client list.
It could be the other way around completely. Perhaps knowing Manley’s views on certain issues makes him attractive to certain clientele, who knows.
Very unfair linkage, in my opinion, to automatically draw without some compelling evidence. A slippery slope, indeed.
John Tory has proven beyond any doubt that the CON’s don’t have a clue. He has just handed the liberals a majority government with his foolish comments about creationism.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070905/creationism_schools_070905/20070905?hub=Canada
John Tory has about as much chance of forming a government as Howard Hampton does – zero. The CONs are a spent force in Ontario. Bring on the next Federal election, its time to take out the trash (Harper).
Breaking News:
People on CNN are now calling Afghanistan a “Disaster” hmmm and PMSH’s new boy “Peter I did not call her a dog” has said: the Media has to start talking about the great work. Bill Clinton has just started Afghanistan must be won even over Iraq. You bettcha PMSH & Co, do not want to go to work. Please all who love this goverment, How the hell are those five promises whatever they were going to solve Afghanistan. oops forgot we have all those tanks sitting in warehouses, now that will scare the Taliban eh bye. Yup take yet another month off Stevie Baby, taxpayers especailly the west do not mind paying y’all oh yea and dem dare bills that just bit the dust. (Do not give me that Cretien crap eithier because all you reformers/conservatives said things were going to be different when the cowboys get into town) Remember?
When in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout, now that’s leadership CPC style.
Hi Garth,
Get your engines ready, could be election soon.
Looks like the CPC has broken the law and are trying to cover it up. This has to be stopped. There is so much to this story, you should really get on it! No wonder HARPER wants to delay opening parliament back to canadians, he is under a dark cloud!
http://www.liberal.ca/story_13106_e.aspx
Stephane Dion is a great leader, he should take the Harper regime down asap.
Watch it Harper!! The Mighty Liberal Machine is READY FOR YOU, and we’re catching on to your games! Income Trusts, Election Overspending, Kelowna, Kyoto, Secret Deals with Bush, its time for a change!!
PJW – It would be great if you worked with a fact now and then.
By Halton Voter on 09.05.07 6:45 pm
Well Halton Voter, we had an english protestant school and an english Catholic school in Town of Mount Royal, just outside Montreal, and there was quite a bit of division at that time, as to your remarks to get my facts straight, you have just got em straight!
Too bad but nice try! Now go back to CPC fairy land and bother someone else!
Tory can keep his money why should my neighbours pay for my kids education. I will pay my own way thanks.
Elias: You are so right about John Tory-who is advising him? McVety?
Segregating children based on skin colour didn’t work-and segregating children based on religious beliefs of their parents won’t work either–I think he would have a better chance getting elected if he promises to segregate our children based on their parents political allegiance–one school for Liberals, one for NDP, one for Cons, etc.
And whose theory of creationism is he going to include in the new curriculum? Seventh Day Adventists? Mormons? Islamists? Agnostics? Atheists?
And I am still voting for our Green Candiate here.
By David Bakody on 09.05.07 7:46 pm
If you haven’t read it already, here’s a fabulous article on Afghanistan by a very respected journalist:
http://www.skyreporter.com/blog/page/1/20070905_01/
Best,
-R
Pat let’s look at some of your statements:
overkill in his cuts to too many programs, went too far.
~Like? Education? Um, no, he actually increased spending by a few billion. Brought Ontario to the highest spending government per pupil in Canada.However, he insisted it didn’t go to the bureaucrats and straight into the classroom. Oops! That pissed ‘em off!
He thought because he cut welfare so drastically that those people just disappeared.
~Welfare needed cutting. It was ridiculous! I, at the time was a single income working mother and I for one was darn tired of watching welfare mothers in the new clothes, make-up, nose rings and evening in the local bar. No incentive what so ever to help themselves. As for the mentally ill on the streets, they are still there. Always will be until we get a gov. that will force them into special housing. They don’t collect welfare because they don’t have a fixed address and they don’t have the mental capacity to know better. What is McGimpy’s suggestion?
Unfortunately, doctors can’t be trained in a four-year term.
~No they aren’t. But, what incentives did McGimpy come up with to attract new doctors? Seems now we are paying for eye exams and chiropractors. Looks like as far as health goes, we are worse off.
McGuinty did need the money he taxed for health care after he found out that the actual deficit position the P.C.’s left us in was about $5.6B.
~You makin’ this up as you go? There was a $2 billion deficit, the $5.6 came in after McGimpy added some of his promises in. Also, the ‘health tax’ came in long after McGimpy had power. Another…OOPS!
Btw, this company, as well, reportedly put some handsome donations into the campaigns of both the Premier and the Health Minister.
~Can you name this ‘company’ and prove these serious allegations? Or is this from blog that only tells the truth as they see it? ha haha
Pat the only accurate statement you’ve said is “Maybe the Liberals aren’t perfect …” I agree, they are far, far from it. L
Very unfair linkage, in my opinion, to automatically draw without some compelling evidence. A slippery slope, indeed.
By Old Enough to Remember on 09.05.07 7:17 pm
Are you saying that people who are hired to represent certain interests don’t do what they are paid for? Why would anyone hire them if they did not? When a person is paid for certain services they are expected to deliver. It is naive to believe otherwise.
Angry Canadian:
You claim that the Liberals reduced our productivity and our economic standing.
Don’t you think the high dollar, reduced demands from the U.S. and car manufacturers who were driven by what cars got the biggest profits rather than what the public wanted and the environment demanded, and the sale of Cdn. corporations, may have had something to do with reduced productivity and economic standing?
Also, in to-day’s Toronto Star is a letter to the editor from Charles E. Pascal, Chair, Education Quality and Accountability Office (an independent and arm’s length body from the gov’t.).
In his letter he refutes every charge John Tory made against the Liberals regarding the school testing and the process involved. Another baseless slur!
The facts are what they are!
By C. B. Innes on 09.05.07 10:04 pm
Are you saying that people who are hired to represent certain interests don’t do what they are paid for? Why would anyone hire them if they did not? When a person is paid for certain services they are expected to deliver. It is naive to believe otherwise.
You are making an unfair linkage. Look, when Perrin Beatty , former Minister in both the Clark and Mulroney governments, appears in panel discussions as CEO of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, or more recently as CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, of course he is putting forward their positions.
But that is a far cry from what you are suggesting.
When I listen to political panel discussions in Canada that includes Lloyd Axworthy, Barbara MacDougall, Joe Clark and/or John Manley, all former Foreign Affairs Ministers, on issues of Canadian interest, sure I take into consideration the political philosophy they adhered to during their reigns.
I say the same when I am intrigued to hear former Secretaries of State Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski, one a Republican, the second a Democrat go at it, as they often do, on a number of forums. They have unique perspectives, being there when major historical events occured.
Does this mean that I trust everything Henry says? Of course not. Some is spin.
But, to suggest that these individuals, in these forums, somehow represent their current corporate clients, and express their opinions on their behalf, does in fact demonstratre a certain naivety.
Not mine, however.
. . . first its Oxley . . .
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.05.07 8:36 pm
Hello sensuous, succulent Shadow. It’s been a while, n’est ce pas?
Re: the comment directed toward Georgine — it is known that whatever a person puts out, either in a positive or negative sense is precisely and exactly what said person gets back. Damn! Karma is so exacting!
So take a long, hard look in your own mirror, Shadow, because you just described yourself to a “T”! Now go back to the fascist, dictatorial CON sites, where you can rant and rave to your heart’s delight!
Later, Sexyback!
Now go back to the fascist, dictatorial CON sites, where you can rant and rave to your heart’s delight!
Later, Sexyback!
By Charles Oxley on 09.06.07 12:09 am
So conversely, the lib sites are, socialist commie dictatorial sites? Sheesh!
By Judy on 09.05.07 8:45 pm
I actually agree with Judy on this one. I am very uncomfortable on establishing faith based publically funded schools. If parents want to send their children to these types of schools, then, they can (as they do now). They can then use the tuition fees as tax deductions. But, to publically fund these schools is opening a whole lot of problems. We already have enough ethnic ghettos in Toronto and elsewhere in Ontario. We don’t need to encourage it.
However, Dalton McGuinty still doesn’t cut it with me. But, that’s another discussion.
More bad news from Afghanistan: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/09/05/canadian-mission.html “Taliban retaking hard-won areas of Afghanistan: Canadian military”
Some alarming news from the Persian Gulf as Canadian ships sail: http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2007/09/breaking-canadian-ship-to-sail-for.html “Breaking: Canadian Ship To Sail For Persian Gulf”
Sir, are you not wondering why you are more popular than your leader, Honourable Stephane Dion, when he had cover more areas in Canada and had more photo-ops than you?
I believe that there are those who are born leaders, can be developed as leaders and those can just dream of becoming one no matter how hard they try. It may be a congenital defect or lack of ability to communicate well. I don’t know.
Looks are relative. There are ugly leaders. But I think indispensable that in order to be a leader, he must know how to talk and communicate his ideas in a manner understandable to his listeners. You have that ability; Dion has not. Perhaps, in the future he may be understood. Perhaps…
I just could not understand why the more experienced leaders of the Liberal Party never ventured into the Leadership convention in 2006 like Ralph Goodale, Frank McKenna, David or Dalton McGuinty, etc. Instead, the newbie like Ignatieff, the economic failure Bob Rae, took the fight. Of course, Dion won because of an alliance with Gerard Kennedy. I really want to blame Gerard for the miserable condition of the Liberals right now.
The Liberal Party has a very strong brand but the hired top salesman is just not up to the job. My God, for how long will the Liberals tolerate Dion?
Quite saddening really and sometimes infuriating.
It is really ridiculous to see a scenario where an unpopular student like PMSH controlling the classroom and his classmates by a mere bluff.
If you are going to wait for an untoward economic condition from the US to work to your advantage, then you are leaving your political fortune to chance. How about if the economic condition in the US will turn out for the better, where will that leave the Liberals?
I do wonder tho. The voiceless wonders from the Harper Party… what will they say when it’s time to try to get reelected?
Ba-deep ba-deep ba-deep….that’s all folks! Has anyone seen my teleprompter?
first its Oxley . . .
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.05.07 8:36 pm
Hello sensuous, succulent Shadow. It’s been a while, n’est ce pas?
Re: the comment directed toward Georgine — it is known that whatever a person puts out, either in a positive or negative sense is precisely and exactly what said person gets back. Damn! Karma is so exacting!
So take a long, hard look in your own mirror, Shadow, because you just described yourself to a “Tâ€! Now go back to the fascist, dictatorial CON sites, where you can rant and rave to your heart’s delight!
Later, Sexyback!
By Charles Oxley on 09.06.07 12:09 am
Oh boy! Talking about looking in a mirror OXO, how come you didn’t get your comments on the right spot, is this just being stupid or are you partaking in the BC bud? I think a little of both. I hear its good out here. It must have taken you all day to think up these wield ideas.
I would like to be the first to congratulate you and The Old Hag on your union. You make a lovely couple and a good team, one lies and the other swears to it. Was your wedding similar to the one in Cheverie NS a few weeks ago? There were a few days Dion and Lizzy May were MIA, guess they were at your wedding. How come you lovers kept this so quiet? I’m really happy for you OXO , now you will have to be cool here, The Old HAG will be watching. I was very afraid for a time that The Old Hag was after me, sure happy she has chosen you. “I don’t want her, you can have her, she’s too fat for me”!!!! That poor old doll will get a rest now I hope.
Are you absolutely positive that what you put out you get back? Is this what your problem is? Karma is a bitch eh? Sounds like you have a real problem. Caution, that BC bud will smoke your brain
It would heartening if we could treat each other on this site with more respect. — Garth
Shadow,
I shall repost here as you won’t go back to read what was said a day earlier (Strike Three):
90 Independents ran the last federal election (2006). I am sure they were not all, how did you put it “Independents come from those elected candidates that are thrown out of their party and have no choice but to become independents.â€
As I had someone to vote for I was not paying attention if there was an Independent or not at the time. Turns out there was not.
Was there one (or more) in your riding? Would you like me to check for you? Oh, I forgot, you are not old enough to vote yet. Maybe next election?
Is everyone in your world some sort of loser?
Can you imagine, just for a moment, try… imagine what the face of parliament could have been like if even a third of these individuals had been elected.
Democracy is supposed to be an experiment, not redoing the same mistakes over and over again.
Geo
ps: Garth, Sorry. You are right of course. It is difficult on occasion. I could never be a polition, I’d be Dave Barrett all over again:) g
Shadow,
I shall repost here as you won’t go back to read what was said a day earlier (Strike Three):
90 Independents ran the last federal election (2006). I am sure they were not all, how did you put it “Independents come from those elected candidates that are thrown out of their party and have no choice but to become independents.â€
As I had someone to vote for I was not paying attention if there was an Independent or not at the time. Turns out there was not.
Was there one (or more) in your riding? Would you like me to check for you? Oh, I forgot, you are not old enough to vote yet. Maybe next election?
Is everyone in your world some sort of loser?
Can you imagine, just for a moment, try… imagine what the face of parliament could have been like if even a third of these individuals had been elected.
Democracy is supposed to be an experiment, not redoing the same mistakes over and over again.
Geo
ps: Garth, Sorry. You are right of course. It is difficult on occasion. I could never be a politician, I’d be Dave Barrett all over again:) g
And whose theory of creationism is he going to include in the new curriculum? Seventh Day Adventists? Mormons? Islamists? Agnostics? Atheists?
By Judy on 09.05.07 8:45 pm
—————————————
Judy,
I’m not aware that agnostics and atheists are organized; much less that their associations have theories about creationism. Please enlighten me.
GP
It would heartening if we could treat each other on this site with more respect. — Garth
It would be Garth but you don’t get accused of being a holocaust denier by Georgine (like I did) now do you?
hadow,
I shall repost here as you won’t go back to read what was said a day earlier (Strike Three):
90 Independents ran the last federal election (2006). I am sure they were not all, how did you put it “Independents come from those elected candidates that are thrown out of their party and have no choice but to become independents.â€
As I had someone to vote for I was not paying attention if there was an Independent or not at the time. Turns out there was not.
Was there one (or more) in your riding? Would you like me to check for you? Oh, I forgot, you are not old enough to vote yet. Maybe next election?
Is everyone in your world some sort of loser?
Can you imagine, just for a moment, try… imagine what the face of parliament could have been like if even a third of these individuals had been elected.
Democracy is supposed to be an experiment, not redoing the same mistakes over and over again.
Geo
ps: Garth, Sorry. You are right of course. It is difficult on occasion. I could never be a politician, I’d be Dave Barrett all over again:) g
By Georgine on 09.06.07 12:33 pm
See what I mean, you posted twice by mistake and now you want us to believe that you knew what you were doing. Never admit a mistake eh? Blame someone else.
I will give you one, there were Independents that ran in the last election but it was not 90 as you stated. It was 85, now you owe me one. Only one Independent got elected and he was from Quebec in case you didn’t know. Of the 85 that ran as Independent, they couldn’t find a Party that would take them. I sure can imagine what would have happened if a third of them had been elected. It would be a catastrophe if they thought like you.
What riding do I vote in? Does The Bay tell Sears their business? Remember I’m the Shadow and I know what evil lurks in the hearts of men. I don’t know about Oxley though, be careful sweetie.
Have a good day Geo my dear. Really don’t mean that, just trying to make Oxley jealous.
GP: When Tory says he will allow the teaching of creationism, he stated that it was a Christianity belief. There are other religions including humanists that would have a different view of creationism.
Is humanism a religion? is atheism a religion? I’m sure if they received funding from the provincial tories they would soon organize and become official religions.
GP: When Tory says he will allow the teaching of creationism, he stated that it was a Christianity belief. There are other religions including humanists that would have a different view of creationism.
Is humanism a religion? is atheism a religion? I’m sure if they received funding from the provincial tories they would soon organize and become official religions.
By Judy on 09.06.07 2:34 pm
—————————————
Judy,
Thanks for the reply and your admission in an indirect manner that neither agnostics nor atheists are organized and, contrary to your earlier assertion, do not have an official theory about creation.
GP
his rolling back numerous basic regulatory protections and his recent promise to shut down the wheat board “no matter what†clearly show Mr. Harper’s vision and direction.
We can be stronger, more prosperous and have a more effective government that promotes mutual responsibility and provides a better future for Canadians. It’s time for the opposition to take back Canada.
-R
By Rob Wiebe on 09.05.07 9:18 am
Hello Rob, I am interested in your thoughts on CWB, and how it is in the interest of Western Farmers. Some perspective on its geographic limitations would be helpful as well.
If you can, please explain how the CWB makes Canada stronger, more prosperous and encourages unity.
Thanks, The Comrade.
The truly sad part for the Forces, and for the people of Kandahar, is that no one will ever really know if things might have turned out differently. That’s because Stephen Harper and his ministers have
By Rob Wiebe on 09.05.07 9:25 pm
And if further countless thousands had been poured into Vietnam, the outcome would have been different.
Of this, I have no doubt. To what end?
Freedom? At what cost? And for whom? And most importantly, how long would it have lasted?
Never mind the politically correct gup gup, let’s talk about those who should be old enough to understand who is a tool, and who is a used tool.
Our very own Princess Patricia’s, once again, did themselves, this country and it’s citizens proud when faced with the ultimately difficult tasks assigned to them in the Balkans. They stood on Guard and defended the lives of those in their charge. This is the measure of a Soldier. This is the measure of a People.
From this, Politicians could learn.
It’s not our place to philosophize about Middle Eastern culture, it’s not our place to dictate to them. It is not our place to participate in the waging of war, for the purpose of defending the interests of Great Oil. It is our place to conceptualize, work toward and participate in, alternative energy sources. Wind, Water, wood burning as necessary (doesn’t emit GHG), even corn for now. Whatever road we must take to end Slavery, to end Feudalism.
Old Feller once asked, “How did you ever survive two tours in Vietnam?”
The aging, once upon a time Soldier replied, ” I stayed way to the back”
Complements of the Old Comrade.
By GRAMMAR PURIST on 09.07.07 12:30 pm
What precisely (is there any other manner is which to ask a poser?) do you mean by Aethiests and Agnostics are not organized? They can form a non-Prophet oranization like any other group! *snicker*
By Greg on 09.07.07 4:50 pm
The life expectancy of a Second Lieutenant in ‘Nam, in country, was 16 minutes. He had a very good plan. LOL
Angry Canadian:
You are questioning the accuracy of some of my statements and I do want to reply because I don’t usually go out on a limb or make things up. However, just now I’m busy with some family things and I’ll reply in the next few days so please keep tabs on this site.
Thanks.
Is Afghanistan really a “quagmire”? Perhaps I misunderstand the situation, but I did not think we were under any moral obligation to Afghanistan. Am I being naive in thinking we can just leave whenever we think we’re no longer doing enough good to justify the cost?
Angry Canadian:
Further to my post of 09.05.07 3:51 p.m. and your reply of 09.05.07 9:41 p.m.
I will reply to your last queries first.
In reply to my remark, “Mr. Tory saying the Liberals have failed to provide more doctors is bogusâ€, you asked, “what incentives did McGuinty come up with to attract new doctors?
You can find that out by going into http://www.ontarioliberal.ca and click on Our Agenda and then on Record and also go into their on-line booklet, “Change that’s workingâ€. In the “Health Care We Need†section you’ll read all about what’s been done and is being done in health care, including:
-increasing family medicine residencies by70% so there will be more doctors in Ontario by 2008, including capital funding for family medicine teaching sites associated with five Ontario universities
-increasing medical school spaces by 23 per cent
-opening satellite medical school campuses in four other centres
-opened Northern Ontario School of Medicine. One campus in Sudbury and one in Thunder Bay have mandates to focus medical education that addresses needs and characteristics of rural areas and the north
–have implemented Access Centre for Internationally-educated health Professionals;
established IMG Ontario where foreign-trained doctors go for screening, assessment and
training position
-since 2003, approximately750 foreign-trained doctors received certificates to practice in
Ontario; 500 more enrolled currently in ministry-funded training & assessment programs
-offering premiums/tuition costs to encourage physicians, hospital-based specialists, nurses interested in working in under-serviced areas
-creating 8,000 new nursing positions with job guarantees
-hired 481 new mental health care workers (and much more is being done)
-increased services with 1,270,000 procedures under wait times strategy which is still being improved. This tracks progress and targets funding to areas where needed most.
-In the last budget, health care spending was increased by 29 per cent since 2003.
-passed Commitment to Future of Medicare Act (see on-line booklet, “Change that’s Workingâ€.
-broadened the power of the Auditor General to review public sector organizations including health care agencies
…so you can see that John Tory’s remark, “Liberals have failed to provide doctorsâ€, is,
to say the least, simplistic and disingenuous. -So very typical of him!
I’ll write a separate post (following) to answer what companies donated to the former P.C. Health Minister’s campaign and the tale of abuse of public money to fund private diagnostic clinics.
To: Angry Canadian
Further to my post of 09.05.07 3:51 p.m. and your reply of 09.05.07 9:41 p.m..
You said, “You making this up as you go? there was a $2B deficit. The $5.6B came in after McGuinty added some of his promises in.†(ref. to Ontario election upon McGuinty taking first term)
No, the P.C.s left a hidden deficit of $5.6B. http://www.thestar.com click on thestar near the top right hand corner, enter health tax McGuinty, read 4th paragraph from the bottom of the article. In fact, you may wish to read it all.
Now, the push for greater privatization of health care, during the Harris/Eves terms, was written about widely across the province. CBC broadcast the whole diagnostic imaging/public money to private corporations affair on The National, December 13/02, with Leslie Mackinnon reporting. Michele Lansberg wrote a whole article on the topic, “Here’s what’s influencing Ontario health-care policyâ€,in which she shows how a goodly number of private corporations invested large sums of money in , not only the PC party, but in individual campaigns of M.P.s I downloaded stacks of stuff on health care back then but it is hard to access now. I tried to get it for you but you may be able to get it by buying it from The Toronto Star archives.
Here are some of the reported amounts and companies:
Donations: to Tony Clement: KMH Cardiology and Diagnostic Centre – $11,000. to Clement’s failed leadership bid.
Canadian Medical Laboratories gave $25,000. to the Tories in 1999, more than 4,000. in 2000 and gave $10,000. to Premier Ernie Eves’ leadership campaign
“Four firms gain licences to open†reported in the Toronto Star, News Section, byline: Caroline Mallan, Feb.22/03
http://pqsab.pqarchiver,com/thestar/access/421067131.html?dids=421067131:421067131
To Tony Clement: Dynacare Medical Labs Kingston MRI Inc. $10,000.
Totals from pharmaceuticals and drugstore chains $70,520.
From The Toronto Star, Feb. 14/03, page A22, Section: Editorial,â€Unhealthy Donationsâ€-
“So Clement cannot feign surprise when he is challenged on the propriety of accepting thousands of dollars in political donations from corporations who could well benefit from decisions and policies he promotes.â€
The editorial goes on to explain Clement was pushing hardest for private hospitals as well as privately-owned MRI and CT scan labs. Further, it says, “It follows on the heels of a controversial cabinet decision earlier this year to allow slot machines at tiny Picov Downs in Ajax. The track’s owners donated $80,000. to Flaherty’s leadership bid.â€
There were also articles in The Toronto Star on donations in reference to private hospitals. i.e. “Clement donations from bid groups draw fireâ€, page A7,
Feb. 13/03, byline Theresa Boyle. also in the Ottawa Citizen, January 28/03, byline Paul McKay, “ROH bidders gave money to Tories: Premiere, health minister received donations from consortium partners shortlisted for 60-year hospital deal.
So, no, I don’t take this stuff lightly. It’s too important. No ha-ha here.