Town Hall meeting Thursday night in Victoria.
They should have been with me in Victoria on Thursday night. I mean, those boys who write editorials in the Toronto newsroom of the Globe and Mail. Because it’s one thing to theorize about the taxing of income trusts, but it’s another to stand before a mess of people whose lives such a move has poisoned.
The Town Hall meeting, as in Regina the night before, was packed. And while jilted, angry and unforgiving investors were there in force, so were young people worried they will never be able to afford a home, and others passionate in their belief politicians are shaming themselves with inactivity on the environment. The event was boisterous and intense, with men and women showing an obvious thirst to get involved, and mix it up with a guy from the House of Commons. It was good. Worthwhile for us all.
Once again this night, though, the topic of democracy came rushing to the floor. So many people, it seems, are so disappointed with the nature of our system. How can leaders be selected who routinely make no attempt to keep their promises? How can so many MPs be elected, and then disappear? Where is the intense and needed community debate on the things people are driven to discuss – climate change, Afghanistan, taxes, spending, child care, crime and, yeah, income trusts? Why does it take a backbencher from Ontario to make it happen, when government MPs abound?
As I listened, I thought about the grilling I received at the University of Victoria that afternoon, as professors tried to decide if I am the future of politics or just a pain in the national ass. My argument to them was that politicians have mistaken the MSM, especially television, to be communications with voters. But it isn’t, of course. All MPs or leaders on TV can do is talk at people, not with them. The connection is static and the conversation one dimensional. In the absence of feedback, interaction and questions, politicians are reduced to telling voters and taxpayers what Ottawa thinks they should know.
In contrast, the Internet provides a mechanism for two-way dialogue, making it ideal for citizen involvement. Voters can instruct their elected representatives. They can demand accountability. They can dictate policy preferences. They can give instant response. Mostly, they can empower – both the MP and themselves. They can create an online community with depth and purpose and it is in this that Canadian politics has its best shot at constructive renewal. Maybe it’s only shot.
I knew that when I walked into the Internet café in Duncan a couple of hours later. Sitting at a booth were some people I have never met, and yet seldom go a day without touching. A few regular visitors to this blog had driven hours from across Vancouver Island to come and sit and be part of a physical experience, and it took mere seconds for us to feel strangely connected. The visit was brief. It was so memorable.
And so it is that my tour over these last few days has reinforced the known and rendered the expected so profoundly interesting. Our system is flawed and people are angry. That anger mounts on the realization too many politicians don’t even know it exists
But, I’d say, not for much longer.
Hanging out in Duncan. Can you spot the blogsters?
146 comments ↓
If I may be permitted a completely off-topic and frivolous (and hopefully amusing) post:
Some neat (?) anagrams:
GARTH TURNER GARNER TRUTH
STEVE HARPER HE’S A PERVERT
JIM FLAHERTY A FILTHY JERM
STEPHANE DION HEADS TOP NINE (alternate for you CPC types – NINE POTHEADS)
Say Garth, why don’t you invite Deborah Grey to accompany you on the motorcycle ride from Red Deer to Calgary? Since she’s no longer politically active she just might go for it, and would get you some extra publicity.
“In contrast, the Internet provides a mechanism for two-way dialogue, making it ideal for citizen involvement. Voters can instruct their elected representatives. They can demand accountability. They can dictate policy preferences. They can give instant response. Mostly, they can empower – both the MP and themselves. They can create an online community with depth and purpose and it is in this that Canadian politics has its best shot at constructive renewal. Maybe it’s only shot.”
And which bloggers would they be? The libbers, the conservatives, the dippers, the greens, or?
Garth, while your blog is fun, I’m sure that your latest groupies do not represent all of your constituents’ wants.
Heck, even your blog hasn’t really given a real insight into where your leader stands on issues – all we have heard are some motherhood statements.
Oh btw, if Stephane Dion was such an environmentalists, why is it that when he was the Environment Minister, his cabinet couldn’t even allocate 1% of the budget to the environment. According to the 2005 budget (Liberal), he only allocated 0.5 Billion per year(which is 1/4 of a ONE PERCENT of total budget).
Thanks once again Garth, not sure how the line goes but I am quite sure you are going to come away a better man. All those who have attended your TH’s in support of this Blog (open on line forum) must be as pleased I am to see fellow Canadians who believe we get up each and every day trying to make this country just a little better. Politics is an honourable profession and we should encourage our best and brightest to participlate. As I sit here and tap away (spelling and grammar mistakes included) I have read yet another press release G&M on line of PMSH slamming the past Liberials on the enviroment. Give me break, yesterday Brain Mulroney dug up Mr. Tredeau to bash around, have these two clowns have no shame. Then again George “Dubya” Bush stated that American was “KIcking Ass” in Iraq, and this man GWB is PMSH’s mentor. Now having said that why do Canadains 30% still believe they can trust the CPC to build a better Canada? I am not going to tell our young the Liberals are the most honest, but I can tell them to keep an open mind and that members and the leader of Liberals will stop look and listen to Canadians and that is good starting point. For those reading here I am not a member of the Liberal Party….just a person who has a strong inner feeling and has had for long time that Stephen Harper is not a nice person and he does have many inner ideas that go against all that is good for Canada. Think, why does he always bring up the past and rule as dictator and believes in attack adds via sound bites. The next election will be the nastiest ever in our history and who do think the ring leader will be….Think?
young people unite and stop this maddness before it is too late.
I believe being able to talk to your representative is very important, this person is your link to the government… even if you didn’t vote for him/her. I wrote to my MP about an idea I had and didn’t even get an automated response.
In case you want to know, I asked if a rebate on bicyles could be passed since there is a rebate on fuel efficient cars, after all, bicycles the most fuel efficient vehicle out there.
posted by Garth Turner on 09.07.07 @ 2:44 am
The Town Hall meeting, as in Regina the night before, was packed. And while jilted, angry and unforgiving investors were there in force, so were young people worried they will never be able to afford a home, and others passionate in their belief politicians are shaming themselves with inactivity on the environment. The event was boisterous and intense, with men and women showing an obvious thirst to get involved, and mix it up with a guy from the House of Commons. It was good. Worthwhile for us all.
Congratulations, Garth, and thanks for posting that blog message so late in the evening in Victoria, BC, thinking of us your faithful bunch of blogsters no doubt.
You are a shining light in the Liberal party, running these Town Hall meetings, which politicians of all stripes should be doing regularily in their own ridings. You are putting all those delinquent MPs to shame.
Now tell us how the audiences received your message as to how a Liberal government would resolve their worries about – “climate change, Afghanistan, taxes, spending, child care, crime and, yeah, income trusts” .. and will they be voting Liberal in the next election .. after all that is the bottom line in this exercise ??
Garth I keep reading in the papers (Toronto Star, Globe and Mail) that Dion is the plus the Cons are looking for this fall. Canadians in an Angus Reid poll find him less a leader than Harper and even less likable. 9 months into his run this has got to start being a concern for the Liberals. All the good you’re doing and perhaps others in the party is really not helping much. I’m a Liberal supporter and even I have to concede that I’m having doubts. I hope he is as strong a finisher as he was at the leadership convention or otherwise… When you’re running being Stephen Harper in even the charisma factor things are worrisome to say the least.
Love it, Garth. Keep showing up the potted plants in print and person.
Mulroney was strong on THE WEST. Will Harper’s legacy be WEAK ON THE EAST?
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=95e4a813-40eb-4c07-8527-ccb50fc38be6
The Town Hall meeting, as in Regina the night before, was packed.
What was the number of people attending, approximately?
The CON of Kahn
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070907.wkhan07/BNStory/National/home
Great post, Garth,
Wow, Web 2.0 is bottom up democracy at its best. Web 2.0 is about people. Indeed, Web 2.0 even let’s rags like the Western Standard flourish.
Here’s their take on your tour:
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2007/09/paying-for-gart.html
Best,
-R
Your experiences during your tour remind me of something that happened after the Chretien government took office. during their time in opposition the Liberals had been an open party with riding participation encouraged. In that election the Liberals took every seat in the Nova Scotia. At the same time the Campbell Conservatives alienated a large segment of their own base by ignoring party workers and ridings.
Following the election, the new Liberal MP for the riding in which I lived in his first meeting with his riding informed the members that his role was to take the agenda of the government to them not vice versa. The party members were furious and many of them vowed not to work in the next election. I have no way of knowing whether this happened in other ridings or not.
In the election that followed the Liberal MP was defeated (along with every other Liberal MP in the province.) No Liberal has been elected in that riding since.
When Stephen Harper was interviewed a number of years ago he indicated the same kind of limited role for party volunteers: to raise money and to work in election campaigns.
Both Chretien and Harper share the same concept of how parties “should” work. This view appears to be also shared by the media.
At one time the role of riding associations was to provide the link between the membership, which represented a cross section of a community, and the central party. Information passed back and forth.
In the age of mass communications and public opinion polling the relationship between the central party and the ridings has become basically one-way. There are individual MPs who make an attempt to communicate with people but they seem to be few — those that do make a riding their own.
MPs are surrounded usually by sycophants. Most people are shy about approaching them because they of their celebrities (and parties select just the kind of “star” candidates that are more prone to moving in circles outside the general population that elect them) and unless they continually make the effort they end up in a bubble, isolated from reality.
Garth, you are commended for being an MP that is not afraid of moving among voters. You are gathering the information. We need more MPs doing the same thing. The question now is whether what you will be able to do with it, if anything.
Oh Catherine – give it a rest will you. Dion was only Environment Minister for 18 months and although the Environment Commissioner at the time (I can’t remember her name) blasted him – she saw some good ideas. In an interview after her report she said there were some very good ideas and some had begun to be implemented and some were to take effect Feb/06 – and Catherine don’t ask for reference – the reference in mine because I watched the interview. By the way, the programmes Dion suggested and the Environment Commissioner liked were the ones Harper cancelled. This same Environment Minister had some critiques about Harper’s no-plan and lost her job.
Geez, you must spend your whole digging up crap.
Why do goofs like Halton John just want to trash, bash and ask and demand answers to stupid questions?
I really agree with a lot of what you have to say, Mr. Turner. Politicians (more specifically MPs) constantly fail at communicating with their own constituents. I’m really quite envious that the people in Halton have an MP who is open minded enough to broadcast his thoughts and activities on an accessable place like the internet. My MP is Minister Loyola “Judas” Hearn. Not only did he betray the entire province by voting against the Atlantic Accord in the recent budget, but the only time he shows his face in this riding (St. John’s South—Mount Pearl) is to run damage control for Stephen Harper’s latest blunders. In fact his website seems to consist of almost nothing but Government announcements that have nothing to do with the riding he’s supposed to be representing. Looking at the front page now 80% of the things highlighted are political advertisments for other Ministers, or the government agenda in general.
If you ever get tired of Ontario, come run down here in St. John’s. I’ll vote for you.
Nothing personal. No letter. Just a flyer, double-sided, one side with an image of Flaherty and an announcement of Garth Turner’s impending arrival and where he can be seen and heard, and the other some bit of anti-Conservative partisan writing by Garth Turner.
Thanks Rob Wiebe for posting the link.
Garth, I thought you said this was all non-partisan?
I said my meetings were open to all – non-partisan. My message, as strange as this may seem to you, is what I believe. And PMSH is not part of my vision for Canada’s future. — Garth
CANADA soon to take a big leak!!! Should there be transparency with the SPP?
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2007/07/c6389.html
IT’S AN OLD TRICK, MR. TURNER. BOOK A ROOM SMALLER THAN THE EXPECTED TURNOUT AND CLAIM A PACKED HOUSE. BUT NEVER, EVER, DISCLOSE THE ACTUAL NUMBER IN ATTENDANCE.
THEN PLACE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE TO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. ANYONE THAT ASKS THE WRONG QUESTION ARE CALLED MISCONTENTS.
HEY, BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. AND FOUND (AS YOU WILL SOON ENOUGH) THAT IT DOESN’T ALWAYS WORK.
BTW, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING OUT WEST ? I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE M.P. FOR HALTON.
The Town Hall meeting, as in Regina the night before, was packed.
What was the number of people attending, approximately?
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 8:25 am
I had more worthwhile things to do than count heads. But you can. There’s a picture. By the way, I did not book the room. I had no idea who would be there, and every question was welcomed. — Garth
Rex Murphy on VIEWPOINT last night.
I his dissertation of Trudeau vs Mulroney, one of the last words spewed about issues today was INCOME TRUSTS. How ironic.
Comments by smoker on 09.07.07 9:40 am
Is that what the Conservatives do? Are you shouting out one of their main strategies?
Hi Stephen Smith, On.,
The Crporate run media is not always objective. They do what there bosses tell them, or there out of a job.
Manipulate the public opion when it suits them. I’ve see question period on the 6pm news, and later watched the hole thing on CPAC to see that the news had edited switched the order of the
question took place to help meet someone elses ends.
I was freinds with a CBC camera man, that told me he was sent to the T.O. airport to get pictures for the 6pm news. You remember the airport was supposidly over crowded and thus needed to be expanded.
My friend told me that the place look almost deserted. So he call work and he was told not to come back unless he got some shots that made it look crowded!
The premis ‘they’ are working towards is, if you tell the uninformed masses
something often enough they start to think it’s true.
So keep informed, have more information sources that just the corporate run media.
Tell all your freind what you have found out.
Tell them to pay attention and to vote! Tell them to find out as much as you can about who they are going to vote for.
Don’t just vote for a lable. Find out what they stand for and who there leader is and want his actions have been.
In Canada if a party gets enough sets then there leaders becomes KING so to speake.
Blog of interest for those intrigued by current financial currents…
Econbrowser
Hey look, my pictures on the Web =P
Seriously though, that Duncan stopover was a real trip. Thanks for daring to set foot in Duncan.
For those who weren’t there, there was a group of about 10 of us, trying to get seats around a tiney booth in a small cafe in downtown duncan (which is a misnomer in itself)
Everyone got to ask lots of questions, and Garth made a few good jokes. We talked mostly about income trusts, crime/punishment, drug-support and GAI, housing affordability/rising interest rates and the bailing out of the markets.
My wife really enjoyed meeting you Garth and I think you have another supporter for income splitting [but you've still to convince me! *heh* ]
Good luck on the rest of the tour.
Hi Smoker Om.,
I’ve been to a couple of Mr. TurnerMP
town halls. As far as I’ve seen there is no ‘old tricks’.
Everyone has an oppertunity to have an MP from Ottawa, here whats on there mind, and take part in the discussion.
If you can get to a T.H. you should, then you’ll know first hand. You can even ask or tell an MP whats on your mind. And discuss the pros,cons,and options. You might even know of a better way todo things that know one knows about. So come out an share.
from the Western SubStandard:
As usual, The Hon. Garth Turner is bringing his clear message to the Canadian People. Meanwhile, the CPC hierarchy sits upon its very abundant posterior, devoid of intellect and new ideas, while attempting to subvert the democratic process. [for anecdotal, see Jay Hill 200 page policy manual for 'ways & means' to disrupt committee work, resolutions and the democratic process] In the words of George Dubya Bush, “Fool me once … shame on me, Fool me twice, get Dan Quayle on the phone right away.”
Pyotr Petrobitch | 7-Sep-07 9:41:42 AM
USA recession forecasts increasing…not good news for Iranian people.
Both Chretien and Harper share the same concept of how parties “should†work. This view appears to be also shared by the media.
By C. B. Innes on 09.07.07 9:09 am
BINGO! I think Dion is the one making the paradigm shift in that, and we know Garth is. Perhaps, while the MSM is focused on Mulroney’s Rant (which is nothing more than ads for his book, not really news), they have totally missed the real reason Dion was elected as Leader? I certainly know why I respect and support Elizabeth May. For the same reason I respect Garth, and Dion…Straight talk and credibility.
Garth,
I once very much respected your record as a cabinet minister and your intelligence. Unfortunately, that regard has diminished with your transformation into a media event.
You are very politically astute and joining the Liberal Party offered you the best chance to be re-elected. While you are presently useful due to the Liberals as an attack dog, it is highly unlikely that you will be given a position in cabinet ahead of the major movers and shakers in the organization.
Belinda Stronach recognized that she, too was unlikely to get a cabinet position since her original appointment was negotiated as a political measure to keep the government from falling with the additional bonus of adding meat to the “scary” Harper message. She had served her purpose and realized that she did not wish to be just a backbencher.
Your recent roadshow would appear to be an attempt to create a national identity. One must, therefore, assume that your ambition is not to serve as a back bench MP. Frankly, if you believe that you really must be getting carried away with your press clippings.
We saw a former PM yesterday make a fool of himself. Do we really need to see someone of your stature do the same?
Trust me, Sophie, there are easier ways of gaining noteriety. Besides, my goal is to be a good MP and give voice to citzens like you. You can help me, or nibble on my ankles. Your choice. — Garth
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Mankind seems to be intent on changing the planet so that much of life here will Die including US!
This despite what the sceintist have been warning us about for decades!!!
I fear our so-called leaders have been corrupted by gread, power, and short sightedness. We have the convergence of a ‘perfet storm’ peak oil, global heating and large population of human beings. Some sociopathes in control only treat the people as numbers, and don’t care even for themselfs and there own kids! (There brains was wired differently).
Last night when I got home from work there was a new show on Nova.PBS
‘Dimming the Sun’, which indicated that the model about the effect of CO2 might be less accuate than we thought because the effect of air pollution has been masking. Global Heating maybe much worse that we think.
Worth seeing!’Dimming the Sun’,Nova.pbs
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
If you don’t know about peak-oil see
(a couple time) the new movie(can rent)
‘A CRUDE AWAKENING, The Oil CHASH’, 2007
http://www.mongrelmedia.com/films/Crude_Awakening.html
I saw it yesterday.
All the extra special features, interviews, on the CD are very good and telling especialy the one by David L. Goodstein. He seems like a critical thinker. I hope he runs for presedent, or at least our leaders seek him and others out for advice and ideas!
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/out_of_gas.html
What kind of polluted, energy depleted,
over heated planet are we leaving behind?
Will ‘you’ and your kids servive?
Resistance is not futile!
Vote in leaders that will help us all make the changes needed. keep telling our co-called leaders that we what changes while there is still time.
The Government is suppost to govern for the long term good of the people (human beings). NOT for the good of the Corporations short term profits!
Interesting comments from the CON trolls about meeting size etc.
The same trolls make no mention of the ZERO town Halls organized by the CONservative MPs…
The muzzle is clearly on my CON MP.
People are starting to notice that the Harper Party is run from the top. This is not what Canadian Voters thought they were getting when they voted CON last time.
Interesting comments from the CON trolls about meeting size etc.
The same trolls make no mention of the ZERO town Halls organized by the CONservative MPs…
The muzzle is clearly on my CON MP.
People are starting to notice that the Harper Party is run from the top. This is not what Canadian Voters thought they were getting when they voted CON last time.
TransCanada, I’m not a Controll. First of all, I’ve been here way longer than you have. Second of all, I do not support the CPC.
Now, if you can’t answer the question as to the number of people, please, move on to another question that you will have an answer.
Hanging out in Duncan. Can you spot the blogsters?
Nope, but I think the guy holding the brown envelope over your left shoulder is the Son of Chuck
I had more worthwhile things to do than count heads. But you can. There’s a picture. By the way, I did not book the room. I had no idea who would be there, and every question was welcomed. — Garth
By smoker on 09.07.07 9:40 am
Garth, way to avoid the question. Instead of counting heads, you state the room was packed. Well, give us the room capacity. Why are you afraid to give an accurate number of the number of attendees? Stating that you had better things to do is a dodge.
I did not count. I do not care. The room was full and we all left feeling we’d done something worthwhile. You should try it some time. — Garth
I do try it some time, its called Church.
Nope, but I think the guy holding the brown envelope over your left shoulder is the Son of Chuck
By got rope? on 09.07.07 12:31 pm
Rope, wasn’t it just last night you said something about me doing something constructive and not just being a critic?
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.07.07 12:14 pm
Gre, you seem to be pro-nuke based upon earlier posts.
This week’s Economist magazine, Sept 8, 2007 edition has a series of articles on nuclear energy, both as a leader, as well as in the Technology Quarterly section.
Pick up at the newsstand, or view online (I think they are all available online and don’t require subscription)
http://www.economist.com/printedition/
I thought this story, Jolly Green Heretic, might be of interest to the GPC supporters, and other anti-nukes:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9719001
Great News! From CTV:
“Average hourly wages rose the fastest in six years. August was the fourth month in a row with year-over-year hourly wage increases above 3 per cent, well above Canada’s inflation rate”
Dell
I know this is lengthy, but it sure says it all – an interview by The National Review of Medicine, Sept/07.
5 things you didn’t know about… Rick Mercer
His role in promoting national unity as a sportscaster in Bon Cop, Bad Cop, Canada’s highest-grossing movie since Porky’s When I first heard the idea of a bilingual movie I thought, ‘Jeez, who’d want to see that?’ But it turns out it made millions of dollars, so I was wrong there.
The Great Canadian Tire Money Heist Paul Martin and I accidentally stole Canadian Tire money when we shot a scene in a Canadian Tire. We needed some Canadian Tire money so the store gave us some. We were in the car getting ready to leave and we realized we’d stolen the money. I said ‘Oh, who cares, it’s only like five bucks in Canadian Tire money.’ But the Prime Minister said, ‘Oh no, this isn’t ours, I have to give this back.’ And he actually took the money from me and went back in and returned it.
His relationship with that other raving Newfoundlander, Rex Murphy I sometimes get emails from people who are really mad at me for something that I didn’t say. Then I go online and see what Rex is up to and I realize, oh they’re actually talking about Rex. Maybe Rex gets the same, which would drive him crazier than me. I think I’m a bigger fan of Rex than he is of me.
Has he ever been on pogey? Many many many years ago when I was a young man. Now you wouldn’t ask anyone other than a Newfoundlander that question — you wouldn’t ask someone from Alberta that.
Who he thinks is funnier — Wayne or Schuster I’m not answering that — are you crazy? There are certain questions comedians just don’t answer and that’s one of them.
You’re running a malaria charity called Spread the Net with Belinda Stronach. You seem like an odd couple. I interviewed Belinda on my TV show back when she was a Conservative. When the cameras weren’t rolling she mentioned she was a big fan of [US economist] Dr Jeffrey Sachs and I had just read his book The End of Poverty. When the interview was over she said if I ever go to Africa with Jeffrey Sachs I’ll give you a call. Well, a couple of years later she actually called up and said ‘I’m going to Africa, do you want to go?’ So we went.
Where does malaria fit in? Many of the problems there seem overwhelming and one of them is malaria. But Sachs told us there was a very simple solution: bed nets. And it was Belinda who said we’re going to have to figure out a way to buy a lot of bed nets. And so that’s where the initiative started.
What’s it been like working with Belinda? When we went on that trip I really didn’t know what to expect — I didn’t know the woman at all. I became a fan and she’s a friend of mine. I wouldn’t have embarked on something like Spread the Net with someone very lightly. She’s phenomenal. She’s a workhorse. The woman doesn’t stop.
What do you think about Michael Moore using Canada in his film SiCKO to show how medicine should be run? I have no opinion on Michael Moore. Or none that I would share in this interview. Michael Moore’s a fan of all things Canadian. I did a show called Made in Canada and he had a Made in Canada hat and he wore it for two years straight. He wore it on the cover of Rolling Stone, he wore it to Cannes. He just loves everything Canadian.
Since you’re all rich and famous now, do you go to private clinics when you need to see a doctor? That was an interesting way you started that question. No, I have a family doctor in Toronto and no, she’s not part of a private health clinic.
Do healthcare jokes get big laughs on The Rick Mercer Report? Well you know the thing with satire, there are certain subjects you satirize and certain subjects you don’t. Anytime anything bad happens in healthcare, it’s kind of a tragic story. I remember in the early days of This Hour Has 22 Minutes it was during the tainted blood scandal. There was nothing else on the news but it wasn’t really the type of thing you mine for satire.
Is the Harper government doing a good job on healthcare? Have you ever seen a health minister who is so not on the radar? There just aren’t that many health announcements being made. Unfortunately if it meant there would be more seats in Quebec then you’d get them. Right now Harper only has one priority and it’s winning seats in Quebec. If he can win seats in Quebec by cutting off everyone’s health insurance, he would do it.
Can you give us a taste of which health stories you’ll be poking fun of this season on The Rick Mercer Report? I’d say it would be this Wait Times Guarantee. The Prime Minister got elected on these five priorities. At least three of them were legislative and were done in about a week. Number five he’s now conveniently dropped from the masthead of the Conservative Party, just like it never happened.
Who’s more fun to grill, the Harper Tories or the Dion Grits? I think it’ll be a bit of fun actually in the next season because this government is so incredibly angry at everything and everyone. It’s kind of like back in grade school, if you’re going to razz the teacher you might as well razz the one whose head’s going to come off in the first two minutes. That’s what you have with this government. It’s a government with no sense of humour and they’re very, very angry at a lot of people.
“Tonight, I’ve chosen to read from section 501, subsection 6, items 117 to 141 of the National Defence Act…”
Photos courtesy of the CBC
Stephen Harper appeared on your show last season, reading you a bedtime story. Do politicians only come on when they’re doing badly in the polls? This government has never done well in the polls so I wouldn’t know.
You know they’re now the biggest spending government in Canadian history and they still can’t get a move in the polls. Personally I think it’s just because they’re so bloody angry.
What stunt from the show did you enjoy the most? I loved being dunked in a tank of ice so that my core body temperature dropped and I experienced hypothermia. That was fun. [laughs]
What’s the weirdest thing you ever did for the show? Being naked and jumping in a lake with Bob Rae was a good start. That was pretty weird.
You’ve caught some flak over your support for the troops in Afghanistan. Is supporting our troops the same as supporting the war? Absolutely not. For a long time in the United States, that distinction couldn’t be made. Stephen Harper is as guilty of this as anyone else. If anyone says anything about the conflict, it doesn’t matter what it is, he immediately accuses them of not supporting the troops. That’s a disgraceful tack to take because they’re two completely different things.
Why are you so passionate about this? I’m from Newfoundland and there are a lot of men and women in the Canadian Forces from Newfoundland. You grow up and you know them. People who live there now know them and see them coming home and being buried. I think they exemplify public service and if we’re going to have a Canadian Forces then you support them. So this is a no-brainer for me.
You spent last Christmas over there. How was that? It was great, it was a good time [laughs]. I had a Newfoundland Christmas pudding there at Forward Operating Base Strong Point West and a cup of tea with a bunch of Newfoundlanders in a tent. So it was a pretty good Christmas.
A lot of celebs get honorary doctorates, but you were given an honorary high school diploma. What gives? I didn’t have a high school diploma and a school for the learning disabled called up and offered me an honorary diploma. Ever since then, when I’m interviewed people will want to talk to me about my learning disability. It’s always a touchy situation because I don’t want to be seen going around saying ‘I don’t have a learning disability!’ [laughs] I don’t want to say anything bad about anyone who has a learning disability but at the same time I shouldn’t be the poster boy. As far as I know I don’t have one — I was just lazy and ill-disciplined.
You’ve been pretty involved in AIDS activism. Is it possible to be funny about HIV? If you ever meet anyone who has AIDS, they’ll make a lot of jokes that are quite funny. That’s just human nature. So, yes, it’s possible, but I would suggest that you might want to be HIV-positive if you’re going to go around making jokes about AIDS.
Is Canada doing enough to help fight AIDS here and abroad? This government’s all about wedge politics. The important thing for them, when the big AIDS conference was in Toronto last year, was ‘Let’s not go — that will send a message to people that we’re not in it with the freaky doctors who want more money spent on AIDS and we’re certainly not tight with the people who get AIDS.’ That’s just the way this government is. They only have one agenda and that’s winning seats in Quebec. If battling AIDS could get them seats in Quebec, they’d battle AIDS.
Are you an icon to Newfoundland’s gay community? Oh, the huge Newfoundland gay community. You mean the crowd down at [a St John's night club] Liquid Ice?
Speaking of icons, you beat Pamela Anderson in the Greatest Canadian Top 100 list, ranking 50th to her 51st. How did that make you feel? Oh God. I’ll take what I can get.
Interview by Gillian Woodford
O.K. Sean; I say there were 30,000 people there. Or maybe it was 30. Why does it matter how many people attend a town hall?
I have yet to see my con M.P. in our small town (except when he wants you to hammer in a lawn sign)
How many people were at your M.P.’s town hall meetings?
Please send pictures of the crowds do we can count them.
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.07.07 12:14 pm
Not to worry…They are planning on moving to Mars and the moon asap!
Garth, if you’re looking for some ‘theme’ music for your tour, here’s a couple of songs popular with the ‘trusters’.
http://www.last.fm/music/Peter+Bacsalmasi
The pic at the top speaks clearly about the room size and attendance.
TransCanada, I’m not a Controll. First of all, I’ve been here way longer than you have. Second of all, I do not support the CPC.
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 12:30 pm
Sean you must have noticed that anyone that says no to bad government through corruption, or even just plain fiddle farting around is a con troll. Don`t know what that makes the rest of them, must be Libs.
Hey…By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 8:25 am
How many people attended yesterdays CPC Town Hall Meeting and what size of hall have you rented for any Minister of the CPC…..CASE CLOSED….next. how does that line go….by beter to keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove all doubt….. It’s O/K I am sure you are more than welcome to attend and count heads and talk with those who have driven there long hours to attend, to just come and listen. Good Luck in your TH meeting of the CPC in the nearest phone booth. oops sorry have a nice day. I am off for sail in Bedford Basin in my little ode boat, painted Navy Blue.
Interesting……
************************************
Richard Belzer| The Death of Conservatism
Posted September 7, 2007 | 01:14 PM (EST)
——————————————————————————–
Read More: Breaking Politics News
The heartless, spiritually bankrupt intellectual frauds who openly court — and are disturbingly non-judgmental of — the most intolerant loathsome elements of the political landscape (who for some unconscionable reason have been consulted about virtually everything our government has been doing or undoing for the past six plus agonizing years) — these are the fruits of a particular strain of conservative idealogues with a shared affinity for the Hobbesian view of humanity, which postulates that people are essentially evil and the role of the ruling class, the government, was to have a standing army and police presence and little else. Essentially that the “people” were totally on their own, frontier-style with no public services, healthcare, college grants, headstart, maintenance of roads and bridges, public defenders, job training programs, Medicare, Medicaid; you get the picture.
Email
Print
Comment
Also violently opposed to the Jeffersonian assertion that people were basically good and part of a government’s function is to engender the conditions where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are possible through education, hard work and a sense of community, whereas conservatives have only contempt for the notion of a fair playing field.
Conservatism is in its last throes if you will, twisting in the wind, dying like communism did because neither philosophy works by definition — they both operate from the fraudulent premise built around contempt for and control of the people.
In the coming months and years history will not absolve them. These multimillionaire radio and television personalities who stoke and taunt “Joe Sixpack” with cleverly and sometimes not-so hate speech, railing about the danger of gays taking over and turning everything and everyone gay; Hollywood liberals seem to be among the most evil people since Sodom and Gomorrah, African-Americans are attacked in veiled terms that are usually not as veiled as they think, playing on people’s fear of losing their job, demonizing foreigners seemingly from everywhere, scoffing at the notion that there is no class system in this country. All the while looking down on rubes and suckers who vote against things that are in their self interest and very survival to help further a cynical, mean-spirited political movement that has become a dangerous parody of the most astoundingly inept, impotent bully wannabes who can count among them physical and intellectual cowards who knowingly and smugly perpetrate lies that have literally cost untold lives.
How did this legendarily generous and open nation become fearful, distrustful, anxious and worried about our families, our country, our future?
We must resist being manipulated into thinking that a so-called “war on terror” is “winnable”; this is as patently impossible as trying to empty a river with your hat. Terrorism is a tactic, not a country — there always were terrorists and will always be. This is not a war that can be “won” in the conventional sense — that is clearly an impossibility. Recent events have shown that good police work can do more than an ill-conceived war that has become a recruiting tool. The sooner it ends, the recruits diminish and the police, with the federal government’s support, can do what they are trained to do.
The Department of Homeland Security was a totally unnecessary boondoggle that is redundant and sadly ludicrous because it is now known that prior to 9/11, all the information we needed to anticipate and probably prevent the attack was in existence but not shared by different agencies because of turf battles and rivalries for funding and boys with secrets out of control and not sharing because it’s their secrets.
As we continue to watch conservatism devour itself we can all hope that in the end, Jefferson’s dream of fair governance can be realized before it is too late.
*******************************
Hope Harper’s paying attention!
Manage the Damage
That’s the ticket..form a committe to collude how to sluff off the paper.
Meanwhile, create a headline rhyme:
Stay cool, fool.
Paper caper becomes public purse raper.
Montreal proposal mulls government hole disposal.
Vultures feed when pensioners bleed.
Chicken Little cries fowl as foxes prowl.
Hey…By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 8:25 am
How many people attended yesterdays CPC Town Hall Meeting and what size of hall have you rented for any Minister of the CPC…..CASE CLOSED….next. how does that line go….by beter to keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove all doubt….. It’s O/K I am sure you are more than welcome to attend and count heads and talk with those who have driven there long hours to attend, to just come and listen. Good Luck in your TH meeting of the CPC in the nearest phone booth. oops sorry have a nice day. I am off for sail in Bedford Basin in my little ode boat, painted Navy Blue.
By David Bakody on 09.07.07 1:31 pm
Yoohoo, David. I don’t attend CPC townhalls, nor do I support them. Try and keep up with my profile okay? Now, as I have said to the other neo-lib, if you don’t know the answer to my question, please move to another question which you can answer.
Vancouver, Sept 8
10 am Holiday Inn
700 Old Lillooet Rd.
I have been out of town for a few weeks and noticed this town hall. I will try to attend but is the time really 10 am? I realize you must have sightseeing to do but I will have to cancel my golf game to attend. Guess I can rebook for Sunday as this might be the only time I get to attend a town hall you are hosting. Sorry for the rant, see you tomorrow morning.
SLG, I liked that Mercer piece, thanks.
A new low….down we go to implosion!
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/releases/07.09.2007
O.K. Sean; I say there were 30,000 people there. Or maybe it was 30. Why does it matter how many people attend a town hall?
I have yet to see my con M.P. in our small town (except when he wants you to hammer in a lawn sign)
How many people were at your M.P.’s town hall meetings?
Please send pictures of the crowds do we can count them.
By Judy on 09.07.07 1:09 pm
Judy, why are you so defensive here?
All I am interested in finding out is how much interest is out there in Garth’s tour. Garth states many times that his rooms are packed or they’re full of excitement and whatever other adjectives he uses. But not once does he indicate a number of attendees, all he states is that it is a packed house. Its a deliberate attempt to mislead people about how popular his pet topic is. He states he doesn’t count numbers. Well, who is doing the count? Someone must be. Don’t you think the Libs are gauging the popularity of Garth’s tour?
Now Judy, if you don’t know the answer to my question, please find another question that you can answer.
By Captain George on 09.07.07 2:05 pm
And remember that it is Elizabeth May who is Standing Up for Canada, not the CPC.
Vote Green and help actually change the politics of this once great nation to what they should be…for the people and the future.
well above Canada’s inflation rateâ€
Dell
By Dell on 09.07.07 1:00 pm
Well above Canada’s released inflation rate as opposed to the real inflation rate!
I do try it some time, its called Church.
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 12:43 pm
Could you elaborate a little on this Sean, what service do you provide at your parish?
Dell…that’s good news? Wage inflation combined with food and energy inflation are slow, steady risers – very difficult to bring under control. Especially when there are Congressional cries to ease interest rates substantially. On the plus side, inflation will help the debtors.
Rope, wasn’t it just last night you said something about me doing something constructive and not just being a critic?
By pjw on 09.07.07 12:47 pm
Yes I did but I don`t think finding humour in the Gomer report as being destructive. On the contrary laughing at an obviously intentional joke `is good for the country`. At least that`s what Cretien said about the missing millions, am I missing something besides $40m?
Yes I did but I don`t think finding humour in the Gomer report as being destructive. On the contrary laughing at an obviously intentional joke `is good for the country`. At least that`s what Cretien said about the missing millions, am I missing something besides $40m?
By got rope? on 09.07.07 2:42 pm
Nice spin, I will remember that when you have your next comment to make on my posts…LMAO….
Actually PJW, Garth didn’t say service, all he said that the room was packed and everyone felt they did something worthwhile.
And that’s why I said church, for me. I do a lot of things at my church and my wife’s church as well. Not only monetarily but volunteering as well. If you would like further detail, I would prefer to tell you privately rather than in public. Perhaps e-mail?
O.K. Sean; I say there were 30,000 people there. Or maybe it was 30. Why does it matter how many people attend a town hall?
I have yet to see my con M.P. in our small town (except when he wants you to hammer in a lawn sign)
How many people were at your M.P.’s town hall meetings?
Please send pictures of the crowds do we can count them.
By Judy on 09.07.07 1:09 pm
Judy – you beat me to it, but said it better than I would have. He declares not to be a CPC supporter, but I can’t recall him ever him saying anything negative about Harpie and the Theocons. Rather, only negative posts about Garth and the Libs.
Sean you must have noticed that anyone that says no to bad government through corruption, or even just plain fiddle farting around is a con troll. Don`t know what that makes the rest of them, must be Libs.
By got rope? on 09.07.07 1:30 pm
Can’t we just be concerned citizens instead?
A few regular visitors to this blog had driven hours from across Vancouver Island to come and sit and be part of a physical experience, and it took mere seconds for us to feel strangely connected. The visit was brief. It was so memorable.
As one of those who did the drive all I can say is YA! it was like that.
Keep on tilltin’ Garth. They may NOT be windmills.
Inflation
“Among the things that money can’t buy is everything it used to.”
Marriage
“I never knew what real happiness was until I got married and by then it was too late.”
…attributed to Max Kauffman
All I am interested in finding out is how much interest is out there in Garth’s tour. Garth states many times that his rooms are packed or they’re full of excitement and whatever other adjectives he uses. But not once does he indicate a number of attendees, all he states is that it is a packed house. Its a deliberate attempt to mislead people about how popular his pet topic is.
BY SEAN P. HOGAN
So which is it? You are just curious OR are you out to expose Garth Turner as a supposed fraud for misleading people?
Your attempts are weak and misguided. You seem to want to read more into things than what is really there.
If you want an answer to a question, pose one that doesn’t smack of an ulterior motive. As well, maybe one that is relevant to the issues/topic at hand.
Might be a good idea to consider how many CPC members have Town Halls and how many you attend before you try to find holes with Garth’s TH’s and his motives.
I am not a big fan of the Liberals. I am a fan of Mr. Turners. Bev Oda is my current MP (haven’t seen or heard from her since the last election) and I don’t know who the Liberal rep. is around these parts.
Regardless whether we like the Libs or not, it does not excuse your immature behaviour on these forums. If you have a point to make, make it. Don’t try to bait others into answering loaded questions.
Garth,
You are dealing with a organization of volunteers. In a voluntary organization, rewards are used to motivate volunteers. The political reality is that you will be competing for a cabinet position in a future Liberal government against people who have spent the majority of their adult lives building the Liberal Party.
You are at present useful at peppering the government and useful in any election campaign. Right now, you are just one big happy family. Once the Liberals achieve their objective and form a government, your utility is at best marginal. The political reality is that running with an issue is not the equivalent of paying your dues. The reward matches the contribution.
You have demonstrated that you are ambitious and politically astute which is the reason that you have been very successful in the past. While we might find Bill O’Reilly, Pat Buchanan or Lou Dobbs amusing and entertaining, the reality is that they don’t really cut much ice.
I leave the nipping at heels to you.
Garth, a Victoria based blogger, “Woman at Mile 0″ gives an account of your TH meeting last night, as well as a transcript of your opening remarks. She even snapped a pic with you:
http://womanatmile0.amfresh.ca/?p=609
But, this one part of your opening statement caught my attention:
“The Green Party wanted me to be their first Green MP and I truly believe Elizabeth should be in parliament. I plan to go to Nova Scotia to campaign for her during the next election.”
Have you checked with Elizabeth lately?
My reliable sources lead me to believe that your recent efforts in your blog: “Screwy in Skeena”
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2007/08/26/
left an impression of “[r]eally despicable behaviour from people who should know better”
Huh? — Garth
And that’s why I said church, for me. I do a lot of things at my church and my wife’s church as well. Not only monetarily but volunteering as well. If you would like further detail, I would prefer to tell you privately rather than in public. Perhaps e-mail?
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.07.07 2:58 pm
Sure I would be very interested, my email is papasputer13@hotmail.com, but I am somewhat confused as to why you could not put it on here, your expection of others is to be forthcoming but you have to hide something you claim to be important in your life. Seems like a one way street to me. You have been trying to bait Garth and others for some time, when I did get into a conversation with you about Church and scripture interpretation, you feigned interest and I gave you the direction to find the truth, but obviously since you have not followed that path, your motives are other than seeking the truth. I am afraid you have lost credability here.
Captain George and Bill-Muskoka,
I believe that if Mr. Harper maintains the PMship, he will make Canada a part of a North American energy and emissions regime, with the USA and Mexico. This regime will include a tradable voucher system for emissions trading analogous to the Clean Development Mechanism. This will be done by 2010.
All bets are on.
-R
A few regular visitors to this blog had driven hours from across Vancouver Island to come and sit and be part of a physical experience, and it took mere seconds for us to feel strangely connected. The visit was brief. It was so memorable.
As one of those who did the drive all I can say is YA! it was like that.
Keep on tilltin’ Garth. They may NOT be windmills.
Cretien said about the missing millions, am I missing something besides $40m?
By got rope? on 09.07.07 2:42 pm
Ya! 25 BILLION!
By Sophie Cheney on 09.07.07 3:29 pm
So basically what you are saying is one must earns one place by serving the leadership for some period of time, maybe work one’s way up the ladder in time by placating the leaders and bcoming what we have today in Ottawa, 302 bobble heads, 2 independents and 4 leaders that have the power concentrated in the PMO whether Cons or Libs and suck democracy right away from the constituents. And when someone comes along to attempt to change that or at the very least shine a light on it, you assume his motives. Did it ever cross your mind that abolition of the party system in Canada might be the best thing that ever happened to this country. It is obvious from the actions of both parties over the past years that neither is open, accountable, transparent or ethical. To serve such a monster seems to be an exercise in futility. At the very least, Garth has exposed much of what is wrong in Ottawa and for that he should be in our good books not have us biting at his ankles!
Wow,
Seems all the Harper-bot trolls are crying in their beer. Garth’s meetings are generating positive feed back and pack rooms (oh sure, no exact numbers, but after attending the Eco-Summit I can say packed rooms are packed rooms) Nope, the Harper trolls are po’d because people out west didn’t string Garth up from the nearest tree, there was no chanting “Go home Eastener, Go before we string you be the heals”
Nope, just a lot of people who don’t feel a conection between there Government and their local MP, and the only connection they can get is from the boob from Milton.
Garth wins, neo-clown trolls lose. i wonder what Boy Detective Janke will be blooging about to try to steal some of Garth’s Thunder? Still it will not matter, Garth is shitting thunder and making connection with all the people of Canada, and this will reflect positively on the Liberal Party and Mr. Dion, and that is what Harper, The CPC and the Harper-Bots fear the most. No, instead of listenning to Canadians in their own townhall meetings they can only make poo-poo noises about Garth.
Keep at it Garth, sell that snake oil,… you do know that even snake oil can be used to lubricate gears of Canada, and right now under Harper the gears seem very dry, dry indeed.
Huh? — Garth
Go straight to the horse’s mouth.
I still have no idea what you’re beaking about. — Garth
Nice spin, I will remember that when you have your next comment to make on my posts…LMAO….
By pjw on 09.07.07 2:53 pm
A joke is a joke is a joke. You really should have a second look just for the humour value.
I did..and it was funny but the overkill was in your reply! My comments are destructive criticism according to you but yours are jokes! LMAO…
Sean Hogan – it’s really nice that you go to church and especially nice that you do volunteer work BUT you don’t seem to be paying attention to what’s taught in church – tolerance, listen to other, etc.
Your petty baiting needs addressing and perhaps your priest/minister or whatever can help you out with your need to dominate and demand.
Nope, but I think the guy holding the brown envelope over your left shoulder is the Son of Chuck
By got rope? on 09.07.07 12:31 pm
‘Tis I, Chuck (aka Charlesius), and apparently I have been spotted somewhere other than where I presently am. Or not, as the case may be! But where, oh where am I?
To boot, I am NOT the Son of Chuck — haven’t figured out how to clone myself yet — but when the time comes, there will be plenty more of me!
BTW, as most know, I did my research and investigation in the early- to mid-’80s when Trudeau left and an election was held.
Then it was the Libs – too left; CONs – too right. Greens – centre (or thereabouts).
Until something — or MPs — are willing to forego their political stripes, take a chance on themselves and are prepared to change for the betterment of the whole, I’m staying neutral.
Rob Wiebe,
That will not be a bet with my booty. You see, many have started to swallow the Carbon-Rape Drug passed around by Big Al and Maurice. While the masses are dazed and confused and will do anything to get their carbon placebo, the “Mechanism” you refer to will line their pockets with more money than I care to mention. I call it pilfering of the people by the man who invented the internet. LMAOROT(Hardwood)F several times!
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2007/03/getting_rich_of.html
Judy said:
O.K. Sean; I say there were 30,000 people there. Or maybe it was 30.
lol Judy,
Much better turn out than at Sean’s church I’m guessing:) More informative and fun too.
Geo
GO GO Garth…nice to see democracy rise from the ashes of Harper’s Dictatorship.
What have the Liberals actually done to help “young people worried they will never be able to afford a home”? or on any of the other issues you were told people are concerned about? I have no doubt those at the town hall meetings were happy to see an MP, of any stripe, however did any of it translate into a committment to actually do anything? What did Garth, and through him, the Liberals actually commit to? The devil’s in the details
PJs
The Gomer report was hilarious and what it comes down is who cares if the Libs sole a truck load, since when has the Government of Canada been honest. Sir John A had to step down as our first PM in the face of corruption charges.
I wouldn`t doubt that the Tories and Libs have had a long running competition to see who could lie and or steal the most, it just so happens that the Libs screwed up. Remember it wasn`t the theft that upset Cdns and cost the Libs the last election, it was getting caught.
The test of being a competent government is getting caught.
The only thing that matters, humourous or not.
Should this act get the modification you`ve suggested or the final curtain, to be or not.
By Rob Wiebe on 09.07.07 4:00 pm
I am very sure of it. Good comment!
Further to the link I placed last night re: ObL being a Weapon of Mass Convenience, this link (Dec. 2001) from FOX (anyone can decide whether or not to believe anything the MSM says) gives a fresh perspective.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html
By Rob Wiebe on 09.07.07 4:00 pm
Actually one must achieve credibility to lose some. That has not been the case for some commenting on Garth’s blog.
By Georgine on 09.07.07 6:44 pm
Did you happen to notice that SHP and his wife attend DIFFERENT churches? That would be a most interesting analysis, focusing on the ‘anal’ part to be sure.
I enjoyed your presentation and it was nice to have a chance to meet you Garth. I thought the discussion after was great!
Garth,really enjoyed your town hall meeting.Very informative,the slide show was wonderful!Thank you so much for comming to Victoria,and answering the questions we have in the West.Lady O has done a Great job of summing up the evening.It was so nice to meet you!
Sean: Have you attended any of Garth’s town hall meetings?He has had several in Ontario, different nights, different months. I am sure that you can take time from your busy volunteering life to see and hear for yourself what goes on at his meetings. Is it quantity or quality that you are looking for?
GARTH:
PLEASE PROVIDE THE NAMES OF THE LIBERAL MPs WHO HELPED UNDERWRITE THE MAILING CAMPAIGN FOR YOUR TRIP OUT WEST.
JUST FILL IN THE SPACES IN THE FOLLOWING LIST:
1. GARTH TURNER
2. JOHN McCALLUM
3. MASSIMO PACETTI
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.
I have no idea and don’t actually care. Why do you? — Garth
Re: By Myron on 09.07.07 8:43 pm
I have no idea and don’t actually care. Why do you? — Garth
………………………………..
There seems to be some controversy brewing about your claim that your tour will not create any “additional cost” for the Canadians taxpayer. The first step would be to reveal which Liberal MPs are supporting your tour with mailing services, directly or indirectly.
All this really represents is political openess and transparency on your part. I know you will not disappoint. Thanks.
Told you. Don’t know. And is this the best thing those scared rabbit Conservatives have to rag on? Lame. — Garth
tour will not create any “additional cost†for the Canadians taxpayer.
The tour in my opinion will be an “enormous cost” in terms of lost votes to the Cons and longer term, with the eventual ousting of the CRAP, fairness and lower costs will filter on down to the Canadian Taxpayer. You can’t convince me that the oil patch executives and investors aren’t cheering Garth on because I know they are p—ed.
Did you happen to notice that SHP and his wife attend DIFFERENT churches? That would be a most interesting analysis, focusing on the ‘anal’ part to be sure.
Bill,
I did notice and I was wondering why that would be. The mind boggles.
Another thing I noticed was this was the first mention ever of a WIFE. Next he’ll be telling us he found a job. (I’m guessing organizing seminar gigs are few & far between.)
I’m not sure I want to focus:)
Geo
The CRAP are even costing the little guys that volunteer in our communities!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2007/09/07/easter-parliament.html
Hey Garth…been reading your blog for a while now and really enjoy it as well as MP TV. It looks like your Lost Tory Tour is off to a good start. Congratulations! Keep up the great work!
Jeez…these neoCons get so incensed at the fact that you’re actually going out meeting and *gasp* talking to voters about their concerns! And the best they can do on your blog is flog this dead horse about the ‘cost’ to Canadian tax payers. What a bunch of hypocrites!
They don’t mention the problems the Cons have with Elections Canada
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=6588f443-ebe8-4a93-8d42-8c89dd725ef2
Or Harper’s and his ministers apparent misuse of government jets.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=d14f2432-4a7a-4fff-962c-987d7cbe6e11
But this is nothing new for the Conservatives…say one thing and do another. Sling mud. Mislead.
These guys are the biggest joke in Canada in many years. If it wasn’t for the fact that they’re ruining this incredible country it would be funny.
Myron,
please let me know of any CPC Town Halls planned anywhere in the Ottawa area. I would like to attend as an antidote to the Garthenitis (appreciation of one very active politician) I feel developing.
I also would like to meet some of the bloggers opposite to see if they really are as ignorant as they present themselve on garth.ca.
Rope,
have been meaning to ask you this, but never quite got around to it.
If the federal government of this country is so dysfunctional and catastrophic, how come this country still is the envy of a good part of this world? I have spent extended periods of my life living in a couple of European countries, and reached the conclusion that even Joe Clark would be a giant among the pygmies in European governments.
What are you basing your debasing of Canadian governments on? Have you an objective, functioning government standard of comparison, or are you working on the basis of some ideal, unconstrained, untested model?
Hi Old Enough to Remember, On.,
Thankyou for the links.
Did you see the story in the Globe,
SaskPower shelves Clean-Coal project.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070907.RSASKPOWER07/TPStory/Business
Hi Bill-Muskoka, On.,
Thanks for your concern. I try not to worry but….
I seem to suffer from the discomfort of thought, instead of avoiding it by beleiving in myth.
I’m glad I don’t have kids. I thinks we are going to see some very nasty stuff soon(in my lifetime). I hope I’m wrong.
Also Bill-Muskoka, on.,
I’d consider voting green but they have this no nuclear power thing going.
I think it’s missplaced. We need to replace the power we now use from burning focil fuels fast or we will all fry!
Besides I have the option to vote for Mr. Garth TurnerMP and his leader Mr. DionMP. (North Oakville is in Halton)
I attended Garth’s TH meeting at the Monterey Centre in Victoria last night. It was quite a large room and all the seats were taken. The presentation was interesting and funny at times and the Q&A session was very rewarding. I don’t know how many were there, but those who were there had some interesting questions they posed to Garth and who answered them. I was impressed how he listened to attentively to all who posed questions. There was some sad stories about Income Trust who had believed Mr. Harper and had done some heavy investing due to that promise of not taxing IT’s. All in all, it was worth going to and learning something about our Govt. Go to it Garth and I hope you get many more invitations…perhaps in the East Coast.
Concerns about retirement, fairness, integrity, transparency
Income Trust Taxation
all income trust distributions (which typically include interest, return of capital, dividends and capital gain realized by the trusts), the capital gain arising from the so-called return of capital, the income received from the reinvestment of the distributions, as well as the possible overall capital gain resulting from the appreciation in the market value of the units themselves will eventually be taxed as ordinary income. The highest level of taxation will therefore apply as the government denies preferential tax treatment of dividends and capital gain included in RRSP/RRIF withdrawals and pension fund benefits.
—–
Why are people concerned about the cost of making up some flyers? When I did work as a volunteer, I used to run stuff off using an ancient Gestner. Fortunately, all I do now is put stuff on a disc and take it to a copy centre that costs peanuts and often I used my own money and wasn’t repaid. How petty!
Additionally, Flaherty did not produce figures substantiating there was tax leakage because he’s a liar!
Myron,
You are so concerned about taxpayer dollars you must be very upset with the Conservative scheme to launder money through riding campaigns both to exceed the advertising spending limits of national party and to get back from the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of advertising dollars through candidate rebates.
This is the same Conservative Party that is using taxpayers dollars in a court battle to try to prevent smaller parties from getting the same $1.50 per vote as the major parties get from the taxpayer.
Should the large political parties be “free” to make the rules in order to give themselves an unfair advantage on the hustings? Is creating an uneven playing field another scam to undermine democracy? One of the best example of the self-serving nature of these rules is that it prohibits independent MPs from raising money for their campaigns until the writ is dropped while those who represent parties can raise money constantly.
The biggest impact of “ad scam” was not that certain individuals made a great deal of money for no work but the kick-backs to the Liberal Party. It involved laundering money through ad agencies. It did not take the Conservatives long to find a new way to launder money for their partisan advantage and rip off the public purse.
That Elections Canada objected and some Conservative candidates have questioned the practice suggests that the Conservatives were trying to get around the intent of the law.
Beautifully expressive Word of the Day on another problem the Government is having, Afghanistan –
“… the government is now caught between the dog and fire hydrant, and the situation is largely of its own making.”
Gar Pardy, “Held hostage by Afghanistan”, in to-day’s Ottawa Citizen, p. 7, http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/story.html?id=6f4d2ee5-e80c-4426-91f0-f165be5af0fd
What are you basing your debasing of Canadian governments on?
By Herb on 09.07.07 11:19 pm
hmm, where should I start Herb?
Current and still expanding youth crime, piddly little environmental things like the asthma epidemic, health care, I`m sure I could go on.
As a member of the `didn`t get it done crowd` what is your assessment of an elected federal government and the results over the last several decades?
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.08.07 1:18 am
I appreciate your concern, and I personally emailed and asked Frank de Jong about the GPO stand on nuclear.
His response was accurate and insightful. Among the real world problems of nuclear are the following.
1. The 1880 Mining Act fails to protect those who work the mines, and they suffer very high rates of radiation poisoning.
2. The ‘unreported’ (by the MSM) nucelar ‘events’ involving our reactors are quite high, compared to those that get reported.
3. The stated life span of a CanDu is 40 years, but in reality after only 20 years they need major overhaul, and at costs far in excess of those budgeted, or envisioned.
I could go on, and on, and I am not anti-nuclear, but rather somewhat neutral. The reason is I have professional experience in the industry, as well as other forms of power generation. Do not forget that the hot discharge from nuclear power plants is environmentally unfriendly, and has devastating effects on eco-systems. the waste problem is still with us as well, and decommissioning a plant is often more costly than building one from some studies i have read.
My position is that we would be far better off building a Wind Turbine Farm on Lake Ontario, and other locations across Canada, and that can be done in only a few years, whereas a nuclear plant takes aminimum of 10 years for the design/approval cycle. Solar also has promise, and the more it is incorporated the more costs will come down. Canadian Tire is even selling Wind Turbines and solar for home use. Canada has so much rural area that such approaches are a better alternative, and less costly in many instances than Hydro. The area of most concern is using batteries, and the total power load.
Here is an excellent article on Wind Turbine generation. A new energy source for Muskokans
Likewise, I want to see more Hydro generation where it is feasible. We have a lot of that here in the Muskoka. In fact, Bracebridge has the very first and oldest municipal generation station in Canada, and it is still in operation after more than a century with the same generators.
Bracebridge Generation
Right now there is a battle going on between property owners in Bala (Weekender 9-7-07, but unfortunately not online yet!) who are more concerned about being able to take a swim in the river than power generation. This, to me, if plain ridiculous, selfish, and stupid. They want to continue to build more oversized ‘cottages’ (sorry 5,000 to over 15,000 square foot homes are NOT cottages), but do not want to include the necessary energy and infrastructure required to support them.
And we are getting pretty fed up with the seasonal residents having the ability to decide for we, the full time residents, what our municpal governments do.
Needs of permanent residents should outweigh those of seasonal residents
As to Dalton McGuinty, well, Dalton has castrated himself like a drunken Mohel with people here. Likewise, we are tad more attuned to reality than to accept John Tory’s BS.
The two major parties have had their day with many people, and we look for real leadership that addresses OUR issues as Canadians, while also meeting the needs of our fellow citizens.
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.08.07 1:18 am
Oh, and speaking of coal? Why has the CPR bought an American railroad whose primary freight business is HAULING COAL? Low sulphur coal to be precise.
CP Rail sees future in coal
CP buys U.S. railroad
Actually, coal can be used properly, but the costs of generation have to increase. The concept of proactively decreasing consumption seems beyond many, especiallt Toronto area business who run air conditioners full tilt and then leave their front doors open; those office building with lights burning 24/7; the unnecessary, ego based signage for companies that are not even open at night.
Yet, many companies like Loblaws are working very hard to help reduce consumption, thereby reducing generation needs, especially during peak hours.
how come this country still is the envy of a good part of this world
Herb on 09.07.07 11:19 pm
Interesting statement. The top priority of any government intervention or investment in the Cdn economy is sustainabilty. Where`s the sustainabilty in Central Canada losing over 200,000 jobs while the US increased capacity? How about Vancouver being named one of the most livable cities in the world. Too bad they didn`t included one of the most expensive places to buy a home or crime statistics, drug problems or the homeless in the data.
I recall you making a statement that the Liberals should be put back in power immediately and we`ll let you know what the program is after you`re elected.
All in all Herb it sounds like you`ve had an allergic reaction to the kool-aid.
To Bill-Muskoka:
A vote for the Greens in Muskoka will be a vote for Tony Clement!!! As I pointed out a few months ago, our Liberal MP of MANY years, Andy Mitchell lost to Tony by less than a smidgen of votes. Andy needed every single vote, and was let down!
Muskoka will never go Green or NDP. Please don’t help to keep Tony here by splitting the non-Con vote again.
Rope,
I would agree on much of what you could list as the unresolved or worsening problems we are facing, although I would not go so far as to blame our federal government(s) for everything. Other Western countries fare no better, some even worse. In Canada we do not (yet?) have all levels of government from local to national swing from the same partisan limb while singing from the same sheet. Besides, does society shape the government, or the government society?
I would be happy to dispense with an elected federal government if someone could eliminate the human factor from the theory and practice of governing. Human beings can resist anything except temptation, which is why I have no faith in benevolent dictatorship, even with me as dictator.
Your appointed federal government must have an element of election somewhere in the process, so you are stuck in the realm of appearance over substance, promises of convenience, bribery with public money, and looking after yourself and your kind.
We have been over this course before, so you won’t be surprised if I prefer my incrementalism through revolving governments over your danger of throwing out the electoral baby with the bathwater.
Am I happy with the results over the last several decades? Full disclosure: I was too young to know what St. Laurent was doin; Diefenbaker seemed all right; Pearson was more statesman than politician; Trudeau struck me as the closest to a philosopher-king we’ll ever see (didn’t need the job, had no personal stake in what he did, and so could govern for the good of the country as he saw it); Joe Clark should never have considered himself electable as PM (sorry), John Turner I cannot say; Mulroney I rejected from the time I watched the convention that elected Clark on TV because he wanted the job so badly I could taste it, then saw him decline into sleaze; Kim Campbell I knew nothing about; Chretien was a welcome relief from Mulroney but he stuck around too long; Martin just begged to be deselected, and Harper has served the purpose of sending the Libs into the wilderness and should join them at the first opportunity. I can live with the results of the federal elections I have seen, imperfect though they may be, especially since I have seen elections and results in other countries.
Sadly, I have never been part of a crowd that was in a position to get things done.
Herb,
You didn’t finish your analysis. Don’t you think Harper is hungry for power similar to Mulroney. Dion most closely resembles Trudeau, a man that doesn’t need the job–he’s more of a servant to the needs of the people. I believe that’s why he beat out the other candidates at the Liberal leadership race. Not as independently wealthy, but one whose principles are not bendable to special interests.
By Maggie on 09.08.07 3:46 pm
While I appreciate your sentiments, I am voting Green. Andy was a great MP, but he was simply burned out after 12 years. A good, personable man I deeply repsected, but he was tired, it showed clearly, and Clement won because of the AdScam backlash more than anything IMHO. JC should be THROWN out of the Liberal Party for his actions, as well as serve prison time IMO.
Glen Hodgson deserves support and votes, and will treat this riding very well as an MP when that time comes.
The Liberal causcus for here has been in total turmoil for months, and they finally found two candidates willing to walk the road. So far, all we have seen is a single blurp in the newspapers.
We have a Provincial Election to be concerned with first, not a Federal. The Green MPP candidate, Matt Richter, appears very savvy, and he has my support.
Clement has very little real support here and is regarded as ‘Two-Tier’ Tony still. The old Conservatives , and I know some real hardliners, have become disgusted with the CPC and Harper, and they may vote Green as well. I, and they are far more Ventrists than far Right or Left.
Besides, I Stand Up for Canada and vote my conscience, not the Party game. Give me a candidate that represents my family’s, myself, and our community’s interests and they will get my vote. Show me a puppet and I will ignore them, not vote against them. I want a REAL MPP and REAL MP carrying my family’s, my, and our community’s voice to Ottawa and Queen’s Park. They have to EARN my vote, not buy it, or receive it from FEAR. I don’t do the FUD thing well at all being a combat Veteran. Intimidation, and all that crap became extinct with me more than 40 years ago.
I look forward to the outcome of the Referendum as well and welcome the change that is coming away from FPTP.
Thank God we have more than two candidates, like the U.S. to choose from. In the States it comes down to Dumb or Dumber every election. Not in my Canada.
“Your appointed federal government must have an element of election somewhere in the process”
Herb on 09.08.07 4:02 pm
We elect our provincial governments and they would have the majority input for a nominated federal government.
Sadly no one can list off the things the feds have done right so I really can`t see and danger of shutting down one of the most corrupt governments in the free world.
Even sadder still the only way things will change is when Canada hits rock bottom, hell of a way to makes changes.
Should I blame the feds, why not? Who are you going to blame, the voters?
I would be happy to dispense with an elected federal government if someone could eliminate the human factor from the theory and practice of governing. Human beings can resist anything except temptation, which is why I have no faith in benevolent dictatorship, even with me as dictator.
By Herb on 09.08.07 4:02 pm
Herb, Wise words well spoken. A true Leader knows it takes a team, not The One, to make sound decisions. After all the real world facts are in the Leader then takes the baton of responsiblity and LEADS.
Besides, does society shape the government, or the government society?
It is a symbiotic relationship IMHO. Once in a while a real Leader, someone truly in touch with the people across the broad spectrum of society rises up. JFK was such a person, but they are few and far in between. Therefore, IMO, the masses both guide and respond to such a scenario. They may direct or follow, depending mostly on the volume of issues presented. hence, too many politicians rely of the distractiveness of ‘Wag The Dog’, and it works.
MC Guinty has just tried this with his February Holiday stunt. I think he will get a rude awakening when the votes are cast. He certainly has not earned the support of Ontarians, especially outside the GTA. Likewise, John Tory has made a total ass of himself IMO with hi religious school funding platform. Heck, even those who would benefit have said ‘Non, Nyet, NO’ Sorry for the Dippers, may God bles their good intentions, but they simply haven’t the broad spectrum of this society’s needs.
Mc Guinty has hurt the Liberal Party as much, if not more than JC did.
The top priority of any government intervention or investment in the Cdn economy is sustainabilty.
Well, HELLO! That is exactly what the Green Platform is all about…A sustainable economy.
Besides, does society shape the government, or the government society?
Herb
How could you possibly forget our democratic rights and freedoms have been turned over to a handful of lawyers.
[...] posted on Garth Turner’s presentation on Friday morning, but decided to include some of the question and answer discussion threads in a [...]
How could you possibly forget our democratic rights and freedoms have been turned over to a handful of lawyers.
By got rope? on 09.08.07 5:18 pm
And economists and business executives….
Rope, Muskoka and C.B.
we are getting too deeply into political theory for my “expertise”.
Rope, we may have turned over a lot of responsibility for our democratic rights and freedoms to judges, but we can retain some confidence in them. In Canada, judges can’t vote and otherwise have to stay out of politics. In other countries, they have to be elected as judges, they can continue to take part in party politics while serving as judges, they can get leaves of absence from the judiciary to run as politicians then return to the judiciary, or they can get appointed from politics and return to politics after having served as judges for a term (in one country I know of, on a Supreme Court, no less).
On a personal note, I have found it necessary to read a whole bunch of income tax decisions from our Tax, Federal and Supreme courts. You would be amazed at the number of cases the Minister of National Revenue and his troop of Department of Justice lawyers lose in court. Now, it’s indicative of the state of our tax system that the Minister of National Revenue has to be taken to court so often, but he/she would hardly lose if we did not have an independent judiciary. I know its only one indicator, but it’s an objective one. And if lawyers and judges play such an important role in our rights and freedoms, it’s only because our blessed politicians can’t get their act together – as in SSM. (Half a point to you, Rope.) Now, if lawyers only cost less …
Muskoka, beware of leaders. Take your example of JFK. Do you believe he would have had as great or reverent a following if people had known about Judith Exner, Marilyn Monroe or the others? Americans were hungry for the vision of a toothsome leader and an official Camelot, so it was sold to them. Perhaps Kennedy simply would have been another President if he hadn’t been shot and elevated to tragedy with the telegenic help of a heroic widow and heartbreaking children. I preferred LBJ, who tried like mad and could do no right in the eyes of the public. Besides, do those who proclaim politicians to be leaders – or declare some not to be leaders – have any idea of what “leadership” actually is?
C.B., don’t know if anyone really pays attention to economists, but I agree that business executives play an inordinate role. And it doesn’t matter who is in political power, because they are exposed to the influence of financial and economic power. The only way that can be reduced is by insisting on governments that rule for the good of the whole country, not particular interests or segments. I’m back to my incrementalism-through-revolving-governments.
Herb on 09.08.07 9:13 pm
Sry if the list I gave you overwhelmed you. I know how shocked you are thinking about what the feds have done right and all the reasons to admit it`s dysfunctional.
Just to clarify;
“In Canada, judges can’t vote and otherwise have to stay out of politics.”
You`re comparing a vote in a federal election to a SCoC judges vote on our rights and freedoms. My first diagnosis was correct, allergic reaction to the kool-aid, seek medical attention before you turn into a dipper,severe cases could even become BQ.
Myron,
You are so concerned about taxpayer dollars you must be very upset with the Conservative scheme to launder money through riding campaigns both to exceed the advertising spending limits of national party and to get back from the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of advertising dollars through candidate rebates.
…………snip……………
That Elections Canada objected and some Conservative candidates have questioned the practice suggests that the Conservatives were trying to get around the intent of the law.
By C. B. Innes on 09.08.07 9:02 am
……………….
Of course I am concerned about dubious Conservative election practices, but the issue we are discussing on this fine forum involves the credibility and legitimacy of our MP Garth, who told us his Western tour would not cost any “additional” dollars to the Canadian taxpayer. I want to believe MP Garth, but I also want the cost of his Western tour to be open and transparent.
Surely if MP Garth refuses to be fully accountable for his public statements, that will not set a higher standard for all political parties.
For starters, all I am respectfully asking of MP Garth is the names of the Liberal (or Conservative) party members who helped with the financing of his advertising campaign in advance of his visits out West. Surely that is not so onerous to provide, and I hope MP Garth asks the Liberal party to divulge who kicked in to make his Western tour possible.
It’s MP Garth’s openess and transparency that is being broached here, and so far everything is hidden. I hope MP Garth decides to fess up and tell us which ~16 MPs provided his tour with their personal assistance.
Being open and transparent will then put to shame all those Conservatives who flaunted the rules in the last election. I hope MP Garth does not let us down and continues to conceal who provided the extra advertising for his Western tour.
Ask as many times as you want. I still don’t know. I still don’t care. And why do you? — Garth
Bill-Muskoka, we will have to agree to disagree. My family has been in Muskoka since the early 1900’s; I have lived here all of my almost 50 years, and know the population well, believe me. There are more rednecks in these here hills than you may be aware of, and just as Mike Harris struck a chord with the teacher-hating, welfare-bashing shallow thinkers who walk among us, so is Harper, via Tony, with their divide and conquer tactics, and their ability to appeal to bring out the worst in people.
As stated before, there’s a time to vote for the candidate, and a time when we just can’t afford to.
Rope,
no, I compare it to a SCoC judge voting without being told how to by politicians or anyone else. Do you see the difference?
Are you sure that you’re not just dysfunctional yourself? In addition to the Kool-Aid you already know about, I also am allergic to horseshit.
“I compare it to a SCoC judge voting without being told how to by politicians or anyone else. Do you see the difference?”
Are you sure that you’re not just dysfunctional yourself? In addition to the Kool-Aid you already know about, I also am allergic to horseshit.
By Herb on 09.08.07 11:16 pm
I`ve never heard of a horses ass being allergiscto horse shit.
So you don`t see that the SCoC, voting on our rights and freedoms without representation of the people is anti-democratic?
Yep, kool-aid septitous, you`re well on your way to dippersville.
I have had enough. My financial dealings are well within liberal guidelines. 50 large for wallyj”s head.-Garth
You just commited blogicide. Bye, bye. — Garth
My dear Rope,
please accept my gratitude for having solved a couple of puzzles for me.
As you may know, there will be a provincial election in Ontario on 10 October. Knowing that platforms are flags of convenience to be changed or discarded at will, I have to rely on other reasons for my vote.
I don’t want to reward the sitting Liberal government for consistently having said one thing and done another, a practice not to be condoned much less encouraged, so I can’t vote Liberal.
The Conservatives have had a poor track record in recent times and are headed by an apparatchik who has moved into the provincial spotlight from the federal shadows, so I won’t vote Conservative on both counts.
The Greens are certain of their cause but innocent of political realities, so I won’t give them a chance to learn by screwing-up on the job.
Which leaves DIPPERVILLE as the only option I cannot discard out of hand, the BQ running no candidates in Ontario. So my secret vote on 10 October will be NDP unless there is the kind of political tsunami I can’t see coming. It may be a wasted vote, but at least it won’t be counter-productive, and may encourage other parties to wonder why they didn’t get it.
And you want to hand the formation of the federal government to such provincial politicians and parties? Which solves my second puzzle, what to think of your appointed federal government. But I won’t tell you what!
And while thinking about provincial parties, I see the answer to another puzzle taking shape. I’ll be asked to vote for or against MMR in a provincial referendum. Well, the actual effect of MMR would be to give more power to political parties, since only they control the candidates not elected directly by ridings. Would you go for a system in which only party lists were presented for election? Probably not, so why dilute the current direct representation system that no one seems to want to discard entirely? I’ll vote to keep “FPTP”, or whatever it actually should be called. I know that I have admitted to wasting a vote on the NDP, but I’ll accept that rather than make things worse in future.
Bless you real good for clarifying things for me.
Re: comments by Myron on 09.08.07 10:03 pm
Unlike you, my concerns are more with potential systemic problems than with specific examples. From my perspective, it is irrelevant which MPs provided assistance for his tour.
One of the biggest problems in our system is the unavailablity of direct contact with MPs. The problem I might have with MPs using their budgets in this way is that it takes it away from their attempts to talk directly to their own constituents such as hiring space for town hall meetings.
If Garth is brought in as a guest speaker to a riding because of his superior knowledge of an issue or issues or to help educate MPs on the use of town halls could easily be defined as an attempt to help communicate with constituents. In my opinion, this direct contact is far superior to mass market advertising.
It is a difficult issue on which to generalize. I do applaud what Garth is trying to do by bringing politicians closer to voters. Whether it will make any difference as to how democracy in Canada evolves is still a question.
Remember that Preston Manning used a similar process but it largely failed for a major reason. Manning succeeded in attracting those who felt disenfranchised by the other parties. However, once the party became a viable alternative it rapidly reverted to being an insular, elitist party.
The danger is that what Garth is doing will merely become a partisan exercise and only the already converted become involved in the process biasing the exercise in one direction or another.
My feeling is that what Garth is doing is a worthwhile attempt at rejuvenating democracy.
By Herb on 09.08.07 9:13 pm
Well, I know what I felt and thought when JFK was alive…’We have a real leader’, and that was why he was so revered.
LBJ was a known crook, bully, and typical asshole Texan with a lust for power. Many Americans still think he was deeply a part of JFK’s assassination.
Of all the Presidents that have come and gone in my lifetime JFK was the best. The next best ‘Good Guy’ was Gerald Ford.
Nixon and Agnew were absolutely corrupt.
Carter was to much a Hick to garner much real respect, but he has come into greater standing now than then.
Reagan was simply the ‘Acting’ President.
Then we have President Halcion and Prozac G.H.W. Bush. He was a joke, a dangerous joke, but still a joke.
Clinton actually made the nation prosperous, and his sexual trysts were stupid of a man in such a position. The MSM blew the entire thing way out of proportion. I guess the Puritans still think people do not, or should not have sex. He certainly redefined the meaning of the term ‘Oval Office’ or was that ‘Oval Orifice’? Had they been teenagers it would have become ‘Ovalteen’ I suppose?
Then along comes the absolute worst president in American history G.W. Bush.
My opinion of the American people is they have totally lost it electing this pathological liar twice, or did they? That will join the JFK Assassination vault of State Secrets. Florida and Ohio remain grossly in doubt to me and probably 50% of Americans.
So, in all my life I have had these and Truman-Good, great in fact.
Eisenhower-Honest, but no charisma…one could say he was a General bore most of the time, but candid.
Not a very good Permanent record in my opinion.
Now we see the Three Horsesasses of the Apocolypse arise Bush, Howard, and Harper…funny how that is a perfect sound for their supporters just like BaHHHHHHHHH for all the Sheeple.
By Maggie on 09.08.07 10:24 pm
No argument on the numerous Rednecks that reside here. They are as plentiful as the squirrels. LOL Unfortunately, they avoid becoming Roadkill far more successfully than the little hopalongs do.
It is okay we agree to disagree. You are afraid, and I understand why. I am casting my vote to change the constant pendulum like flip from bad to worse to bad.
That is our responsibility BTW as voters. Like I say, ‘Insanity is repeating the same act and expecting a different result.’
And remember we are talking about the Provincial election first and foremost.
We suffered through the Harris ‘Common Sense Revolution’ and now have McSquinty…both BAD governments!
I look at like I would maintaining my vehicle. There is a point which one does not pour more money into it because it is a POS and had its day. Time for a new set of wheels, and if the make has proven unreliable, time to change brands also.
Bless you real good for clarifying things for me.
By Herb on 09.09.07 9:04 am
You`re welcome Herb. It must have come as a shock to realize your only hope of saving the country was to waste a vote on the dippers.
Thank you for clarifying the reason for you defending the status quo when even Garth uses terms like `short of carpet bombing` when referring to fixing our federal government, you`re a dipper.
Re: comments by Bill-Muskoka on 09.09.07 10:45 am
In my opinion, Kennedy was the first U.S. President to be a media star in the sense that the media created a personna by highlighting his strengths and ignoring his weaknesses. There is some suggestion that he may not even have won the election because he had made some serious political blunders. It seems that Presidents that have been assassinated take on a mystique that idealizes them in ways that may not have occurred if they lived to old age.
At the same time Presidents like G. W. Bush always make their predecessors look real good.
Sorry I missed the last end of this one. I was becoming a little discouraged with the navel gazing.
Some good posts by the thinkers at the end here. Herb, everything has to start somewhere. Let’s get the Green and the small end percentage parties in the game and then work on fine tuning. The established parties are going to “expect” to maintain maximum possible control, if only for their political lifetimes. You can understand this.
I’m not going to discourage you from your decided course, but would offer my experience with the NDP. I have, in fact voted for them twice. Then came the day that I asked them for a little support. I was being run over by the Crown. No fault of mine.
Something that current and past Government employees rarely understand. As they are in fact, the perpetrators of the deeds. Unbeknown to them, perhaps, as they generally live in la la land, and are the only ones who seem to be able to afford the housing prices.
Isn’t that odd?
My one phone call to the Provincial NDP party garnered a null response. They told me they were not interested. Local CBC Radio and ATV, Live at Five were a different story.
Understand, they only tell you what they think you want to hear.
Quote from Forest Gump.
“It’s not so hard to imagine, if you try, Dick..”
Stupid is, as stupid does Misses Blue.
Yah, I know you are all too smart for this Okie shit right?
Greg,
“Government employees rarely understand. As they are in fact, the perpetrators of the deeds. Unbeknown to them, perhaps, as they generally live in la la land, and are the only ones who seem to be able to afford the housing prices.”
The last statscan report said of the increase in jobs only 30% were in the private sector but hey the national unemployed stayed at 6%.
At the same time Presidents like G. W. Bush always make their predecessors look real good.
By C. B. Innes on 09.09.07 5:40 pm
Hell, C.B. Bush makes Al Capone and Alfred E, Newman look like Einsteins.
Joey Soprano is a saint compared to Dubya…and the truth keeps coming out.
He is the human example of HUD, remember the ‘original’ BSE, aka, Hoof and Mouth Diesease, but now known as Foot in Mouth Disease? Harper is trying to beat his score daily.
Yet, you are correct JFK was the first really media hyped President, at least in the electronic age.
By Maggie on 09.08.07 3:46 pm
Sorry…I vote my conscience without FUD. Guess we will cancel each other out, but that is politics. One person…One vote!
BTW, I checked today on the Liberal website and can’t even find out who the Provincial candidate is? I did, however, receive a very timely reply from the Green candidate, also living in Port Sydney, where TTTC has his ‘cottage’. Our Green candidate answered every question, and more I asked.
Greg,
Further to my `got rope? on 09.09.07 8:54 pm`.
“the only ones who seem to be able to afford the housing prices”
There`s a lot of gov. employees on strike out here. They say they can`t afford to be on strike and the forest workers are moving on to other industries with the union helping place them. Seems the fear by the majority of Cdn being only a paycheck away from bankruptcy is not just paranoia.
Rope,
er, the 10 October election is provincial, in Ontario. And I will vote NDP for the reasons given.
Come the next fed election, I shall vote to throw the CRAP out, and, as I have said several times, that means for the only party that has a chance to replace them, i.e., Liberal. Don’t think Garth will have a problem with that.
You, however, as advanced unmercifully by your “The Feds Suck” apotheosis, will not vote at all and encourage others to do likewise. That should carpet-bomb the feds, or at least strike the fear of the voter into them.
Better an occasional Dipper than a permanent dipstick.
By C. B. Innes on 09.09.07 5:40 pm
Actually FDR was the first media President with his Fireside Chats. Wow, wouldn’t that be unique today…complete sentences instead of sound bites from our so called leaders?
Better an occasional Dipper than a permanent dipstick.
By Herb on 09.10.07 7:35 am
I don`t think it`ll help Herb, thinking changing political parties to fix things still makes you a dipstick.
Greg,
sorry I didn’t get back to you last night, but it was too late to think straight.
I know it’s tempting to get a new spirit and new faces into politics, but I have a problem with idealism divorced from reality. I have passed on my observations of the German Greens, and so far see our domestic version heading the same way. A view of something as elementary and pervasive as property taxes as expressed by de Jong, or the Green I tangled with on the subject, frightens me. Let them do some real homework and understand the facts of politics and needs of voters before they present themselves as candidates. Causes and ideas have to be practicable to be good.
Haven’t had any personal experience with any political party, but let me pass on what I have seen as possible.
Many years ago I was a Canadian renting a house in a small German village. One of my neighbours built a very nice fieldstone wall of the approved heigth around his lot. He was visited by a municipal official, who explained to him that the other houses had wooden fences, and that his stone wall had to go. After months of trying to save his stone wall, it finally was allowed that, if he joined the local branch of the political party that happened to be in power in the village and the province and the country, his problem might be resolved. He did, and it was.
Germany is far away, but I want to be darn sure that our politics don’t head the same way.
Sean Hogan – it’s really nice that you go to church and especially nice that you do volunteer work BUT you don’t seem to be paying attention to what’s taught in church – tolerance, listen to other, etc.
Your petty baiting needs addressing and perhaps your priest/minister or whatever can help you out with your need to dominate and demand.
By slg on 09.07.07 6:01 pm
SLG, did Jesus tolerate sin? Nope. And neither do I.
Tolerance is a politically correct term used to discriminate against those of us who believe in right and wrong. I don’t subscribe to the religion of secularism and/or political correctness.
Your last paragraph is a very strange one. What domination are you referring? Please quote chapter and verse here.
So which is it? You are just curious OR are you out to expose Garth Turner as a supposed fraud for misleading people?
Your attempts are weak and misguided. You seem to want to read more into things than what is really there.
If you want an answer to a question, pose one that doesn’t smack of an ulterior motive. As well, maybe one that is relevant to the issues/topic at hand.
Might be a good idea to consider how many CPC members have Town Halls and how many you attend before you try to find holes with Garth’s TH’s and his motives.
I am not a big fan of the Liberals. I am a fan of Mr. Turners. Bev Oda is my current MP (haven’t seen or heard from her since the last election) and I don’t know who the Liberal rep. is around these parts.
Regardless whether we like the Libs or not, it does not excuse your immature behaviour on these forums. If you have a point to make, make it. Don’t try to bait others into answering loaded questions.
By Reg on 09.07.07 3:26 pm
Reg, you’re looking for a conspiracy where there is none. Reg, all I asked was an approximate number as Garth so often describes his townhalls as packed and whatever adjective to make it seem large. Well, I thought, let’s have a number to back up those adjectives.
Reg, I don’t care who holds townhalls, whether it’s conducted by a CPC, Lib or NDP member.
Oh and Reg, since when is it immature to ask for a number? Or do you refer to another posting? Please feel free to quote my post to back up your accusation.
Here’s the thing, I knew someone would start with the ulterior motive idea. Fine, but the thing is, I am upfront and honest, I asked a very reasonable question. What I received from Garth was a copout. That brings me to another question, why is he copping out on the answer? Then, some of his supporters start talking about CPC townhalls of which there has been none. Fine, but I never asked about CPC townhalls. And you Reg, you come out with an insult to avoid answering a simple question. There was no baiting on my part Reg, just you and others who have chosen to avoid answering the question. Sure sounds like I’ve touched some nerves with this simple question.
Wow,
Seems all the Harper-bot trolls are crying in their beer. Garth’s meetings are generating positive feed back and pack rooms (oh sure, no exact numbers, but after attending the Eco-Summit I can say packed rooms are packed rooms) Nope, the Harper trolls are po’d because people out west didn’t string Garth up from the nearest tree, there was no chanting “Go home Eastener, Go before we string you be the healsâ€
Zorpheous, wrong again, I don’t support the CPC. Remember, there are many people who don’t support either of the 2 major parties out there. Try again.
lol Judy,
Much better turn out than at Sean’s church I’m guessing:) More informative and fun too.
Geo
By Georgine on 09.07.07 6:44 pm
You have no idea of what you’re talking about, again.
Did you happen to notice that SHP and his wife attend DIFFERENT churches? That would be a most interesting analysis, focusing on the ‘anal’ part to be sure.
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.07.07 7:34 pm
Good job Bill, way to take the low road, again. Boy you people really get all defensive when a person asks a question about the number of attendees. Too funny. You neolib-trolls are something else.
Sean: Have you attended any of Garth’s town hall meetings?He has had several in Ontario, different nights, different months. I am sure that you can take time from your busy volunteering life to see and hear for yourself what goes on at his meetings. Is it quantity or quality that you are looking for?
By Judy on 09.07.07 8:42 pm
Judy, why does this matter? Why do I have to attend one of Garth’s townhalls? What a weird one you are.
Bill,
I did notice and I was wondering why that would be. The mind boggles.
Another thing I noticed was this was the first mention ever of a WIFE. Next he’ll be telling us he found a job. (I’m guessing organizing seminar gigs are few & far between.)
I’m not sure I want to focus:)
Geo
By Georgine on 09.07.07 10:17 pm
Georgine, it’s amazing, next thing you’ll be stating is that I’m a holocaust denier. Ooops, scratch that, you did. No wonder you and Bill get along, all you can do is insult and you never provide anything concrete or factual. Keep trying, one day you might get it right.
Ahh Sean,
You have returned to us all full of rightous piss and viniger and you have caught up with two days of of comments by saying nothing at all. Just a lot of na na nanana naaaa. Bet you fell good now.
I’m just curious on a couple of points. How do you know that the TH is NOT more fun than your church if you never have been to one. If you are not willing to experience it, your opinion is not worth much. Maybe you could send your “wife” and she could tell you all about it. With your permission of course.
One of the other posts above mentioned tolorance. You contradicted yourself and Jesus in it almost immediately. I’d like to know how you would know this:
SLG, did Jesus tolerate sin? Nope. And neither do I.
Tolerance is a politically correct term used to discriminate against those of us who believe in right and wrong. I don’t subscribe to the religion of secularism and/or political correctness.
I think you may speak for yourself and your beliefs but if you are going to speak for Jesus I think it’s only fair and right and proper that you back it up with at least 3 quotes from the Bible, not from some radio quack who does, and I quote you “good sound bites”. The Bible only. Got that. Let us know which version please and if you are picking it up on-line, the url.
You state you are honest and you only want answers to your questions but you do not ask fulsome questions. Then you wonder why Garth or anyone else does not want to answer them to your satisfaction.
Please ask questions in a respectful and honest manner and you might get a reply.
As to the holocaust denier statement, it is unlikely I made such a one without good reason. It is bothering you I can tell. Please send me the link so I may refresh my memory. As it is I only have your word and possibly the company you keep (read, listen too) to back up my claim. (Please quote chapter and verse here.)
Did you find a job?
Geo
Sorry Georgine, I didn’t hear you, all I could hear was gibberish. Try again.
And please, don’t lecture me on how to post in a respectful manner. You’re the last one who could lecture on that. Buh bye.