A Global TV reporter prepares report for southern Alberta after Lethbridge Town Hall meeting.
Down the hall from Maggie’s skeleton, the campus radio reporter was able to quote right out of this blog. Impressed the heck out of me. In fact, I was amazed at the number of people I ran into in Lethbridge on the final day of the Lost Tory Tour who come and waste time on this site. College types. Rickety old types. Farmers. Frankly, I had no sense that there were so many political junkies in southern Alberta.
There were a couple at the Town Hall Thursday night at the Legion, too. This, by the way, was a very cool Legion. Bar on one side. Meeting hall on the other. Big antique silver warplane on a cement pillar outside. Raffle tickets everywhere. Wear Red posters. Medals and plaques with brass plates. Field artillery piece guarding the door. And, this night, a clutch of people who came out to talk politics in a riding where even I haven’t heard of the MP, and where a Liberal has not been elected in 98 years.
So, I reminded the good people of Alberta once again, in the meeting and in a surprisingly big media scrum that happened earlier in the day, their voting habits leave much to be desired. I mean, really. Electing all Conservatives, who then go to Ottawa and sit in a caucus where they cannot speak, and unless they’re in cabinet, have zero influence? What’s the logic in that? There are no voices of dissent. No champions to fight for your income trusts or climate change. Nobody to take forward policy initiatives, or stand up in front of PMSH on a Wednesday morning and tell him the citizens of Lethbridge demand better. The Con MPs are forced eunuchs. Alberta’s voice has been lost.
But when I was not reversing the course of provincial history, I was having a good day. Lectured at the University of Lethbridge, in that unbelievable building Arthur Erickson built a few decades ago, to a class of keeners. Met with a roundtable of business leaders – chamber of commerce, economic development, real estate board trade, mayor, producers – and came away with a long federal wish list. Gave a rah-rah to local Libs over a dinner many, many, many cattle laid down their lives for. Toured the town, 200 km south of Calgary and the scene of a famous Indian Wars battle. And had the last Town Hall meeting – at least until I get back to Ontario where Esther tells me there is waiting list for other ridings.
It was a good place to end this little trip. Welcoming and appreciative, Lethbridge was an antidote to the irritated breathlessness that now blows through Cowtown to the north. The public meting was useful and the private ones stimulating. The reporters were charming and respectful. The landscape – prairie grasses clinging to wildly undulating clay hills, knifed through by a storybook river – was itself restorative and calming. There is no oil or gas here. No tars ands. No frenetic madness. Just a massive and reassuring wind farm outside of town, a surfeit of common sense and eight thousand students who share a mythical building with Maggie.
She’s a spider. Tarantula. Pet of the university president, who took delight in displaying her to me, along with the exterior she recently molted out of.
Spiders, you know, wear their skeletons outside their bodies. Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.
Local news report here.
112 comments ↓
Get some rest Garth. You’ve done YEOMAN’S WORK. I don’t want to speak out of turn, but it is time for a Constitutional Renewal … not the paper document this time … yourself!
And I hate to send you back to look at this sidewinder.
http://pumpernickie.blogspot.com/2007/06/china-eracts-30-foot-statue-of-pierre.html
After an exchange of e-mails with the Chinese Cultural Committee,* they were willing to agree the proportions shown were more in illustration of Poilievre’s self-serving tendency to exaggeration. They laughed when I told them he was the embodiment of the counter espionage group, FAILING DONG!
*Curious how the initials for the Chinese committee coincide with that other group headed by McVety.
Well deserved rest should be ordered up for you, Garth.
Boy, that Esther must be a task master!
Hopefully the less frenetic pace of Lethbridge will calm the nerves from Cowtown. Just driving in Calgary can be a nightmare. I can’t imagine how people live there.
We went to visit a friend last summer who has been working in Calgary for two years now. He still is living in people’s basements – can’t find an apartment so he bunks in with co-workers for 6 months at a time then moves to the next one. But he can’t make enough money to put up a down payment, even though he’s reasonably well paid. Even if he could there’s no housing to buy.
Your experience in Alberta seems to mirror mine at the Liberal convention in Montreal in December. There are Liberals out there but they have a hard time flying the party flag. Almost ashamed to say they are Liberals.
Maybe now you’ve made them feel less ashamed to be Liberal. You’ve recruited some of their friends and neighbours.
Molting might be a good way to shed the dreck that accumulates from the political game.
Good job, well done – maybe next time you get a hog ride.
Deb
Garth,
I have plans to leave the huge rush of Calgary and relocate with my wife to Lethbridge. We love the small town feel of a decent size city. Also helps there is a strong enough Japanese community there as well for her.
The university has a great political science as well as a philosophy program. I don’t feel quite so bad thinking of going there as a possible Liberal party member or supporter. Mind you that allegiance only stays so long as I can believe in the integrity of it’s leader. When that feeling is gone, so does my support.
Let Mr Dion know that so long as he remains true to the public and can minimize his corruption, I believe that people such as myself will be supporting him.
Oh and another thing, you should make him have a second plan in place to rule if the Liberals end up being in a minority government. Only prudent to assume that things wont change that much with the upcoming election.
Spiders are our friends.
You done good Garth.
And on top of each TH, meeting, gathering, etc. etc. you kept us involved each step of the way.
Thank you, yet again. Safe trip home.
Geo
Good to hear your last day ended on a high note.
Rather worrisome news in today’s Toronto Star. “Signs point to Dion by-election Disaster”
If the federal liberals don’t do well in Quebec’s bi-election, that is a matter of some concern. What would have to happen in Quebec for federal liberals to be elected other than replacing Dion as leader?
Wow!
Leadership through serving!
You, my cyber-friend, are one incredible servant of the people Garth Turner.
I truly wish there were more MPs like you. Showing up every day, listening, and laying it on the line.
Me, I just sit behind my keyboard, theorize and pontificate. How can I begin to be more like you Garth?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
MB
here’s a little garth-interview:
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/lethbridge/index.html
THE LOSS TORY TOUR.
Thanks Garth, your kind words for all who beat their feet to your Town Halls have given me just cause to always remember that above the maddening crowd of those who care not to aleast listen. Many Western Canadians indeed have much respect for the political system when a stranger rolls into town with an honest sincere message wrapped in the truth.
Have a safe trip home, and plesse take a day or two to hold your family close and enjoy their presence.
It’s good to know that they have a firm grip on this wheel and are in control.
Sept. 12 – “Bank of England warns against bailing out struggling banks”
Sept. 14 – Northern Rock Gets Emergency Bank of England Funding
“The provision of such liquidity support undermines the efficient pricing of risk by providing ex-post insurance for risky behavior. That encourages excessive risk-taking and sows the seeds of a future crisis.”…Governor, Bank of England
Again I ask, who is the lender of last resort?
I was going to say CONgrats, but it might be more politically correct to just recognize that you have made a great contribution to Canadian political life, and have stimulated some of us political junkies to wake up each morning to read your blog comments and the comments left by all .. some better than others. (enough said)
Garth,
Now that was a story that made me smile, and we sure need some to smile about with all the total stupidity around us. Thank you. My Friday morning is far nicer having read the tale of the LTT.
Flaherty sings….
Of loopholes, restructuring, & buying time – A Wiley Coyote move if I ever saw one – after stepping off the cliff, he hovers in mid-air. When he finally looks down, the little “help” sign comes out.
Food vs Fuel…a CON job?
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070914.wibreguly14/GIStory/
You done good Garth.
By Georgine on 09.14.07 4:52 am
AGGGGGHHHHHH!
You’ve done well, Garth.
Geo. go to:
http://www.cbc.ca/testthenation/
Let Mr Dion know that so long as he remains true to the public and can minimize his corruption, I believe that people such as myself will be supporting him.
It is indeed a sad testament to our view of politics that minimizing corruption is considered a worthy goal.
Personally, I would still shoot for eliminating corruption. But I guess that is too much to hope for…
Were the students banned to make room for disgruntled CRAPPERS?
http://www.680news.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20070914_055455_5200
Ed
Sadly, if MPs, ministers and consequently the PM were not paid for their service and dedication at all, perhaps then such matters would not exist.
Then again you could live in Nigeria (?) where the corruption is one of the worst in the world. Given a choice, I’d rather try to minimize it rather than to ban it outright. A more realistic approach sadly enough.
Of interest to some Seniors:
SEC Files Action to Halt $25 Million Fraudulent Scheme Preying Upon Retirement Savings of Senior Citizens
If they want NDP …so be it.
No ATM fees! Bicycle lanes everywhere! Jack will cover your back!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/quebec_poll_070914/20070914?hub=TopStories
Thanks from Alberta.
You wrote that you do not YET believe the conspiracy theory.
See this:-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010&hl=en-CA
It is indeed a sad testament to our view of politics that minimizing corruption minating corruption.
By Ed Brooks on 09.14.07 9:48 am
I had the same reaction to that comment. If voters are forced to consider the minimizing of corruption as the main consideration in voting we are in dire straits as a democracy.
Consider the “veil” issue. The government presented this flawed legislation to Parliament. The PMO was informed about the problem before the by-elections were called.
Certain members of the media pushed the issue by questioning the Chief Electoral Officer and printing his response to trigger the PM’s reaction.
We know that Liberal strategists have used the media in the same way in the past and Harper has adopted many of the former Liberal strategies. The question has to be whether the PM carefully orchestrated the whole thing to gain the anti-immigrant vote in Quebec in the by-elections. He has always been noted as an excellent strategist. If he did, it is extremely dirty politics but it appears to be working.
Wow, as mentioned once before, you have come away a better man. And! you made many believe in our political system. Now! if those who think they do not hold the key to good goverment, think again, only by holding each person in our voting district responsible with our collective votes to their throats can we build a better country and yes world for our grandchildren. Carry on
BZ Garth Turner.
BT
Looks like it will be The End of the Liberals in Outremont. From CTV:
“The Liberals appear to be in big trouble in the Montreal seat of Outremont, where a byelection is to be held Monday, a poll suggests.
Monday marks the begining of the end for Stephan Dion.
Dell
“The Liberals appear to be in big trouble in the Montreal seat of Outremont, where a byelection is to be held Monday, a poll suggests.
Monday marks the begining of the end for Stephan Dion.
Dell
By Dell on 09.14.07 11:23 am
But worse than that, the Bloq are also going to suffer in the three by-elections. Which means Mr. Duceppe and the Bloq will continue to support the government by refusing to bring it down.
That’s a pity. PMSH will be able to carry on slipping through the cracks with his agenda and Mr. Dion won’t get a fair crack at removing him from office, assuming the Liberals implode and decide they need a new leader before the next election.
Monday marks the begining of the end for Stephan Dion.
By Dell on 09.14.07 11:23 am
It also marks the beginning of progressive gains across Canada. Saskatchewan will be next.
-R
Heard on the Street
“It’s a good thing that these Central Banks are backed by gold in their vaults, or else I’d really start worrying..”
“The Liberals had been expected to hold Outremont. The possibility they might lose has the party hitting the emergency button.
“I’ll give you an idea of how much of a panic the Liberals are in,” Fife said. “They told all their workers in Ottawa to get to Montreal this weekend. They need them on the ground to bring out the vote in Outremont.”
The poll bodes ill for Liberal Leader Stephane Dion, he said.
“He is a Quebec leader. He was elected on the basis of being able to win seats in Quebec, to carry Quebec, and he will not be able to do this if this poll is correct. … And that’s going to raise a whole lot of questions about whether he’s the right leader,” Fife said”
Seems Canadians aren’t drinking Liberal koolaid anytime soon…time for another tour eh Garth
Garth, It would appear that you did very well on your western tour and for that I thank you. Take time to recover and then keep up the good fight.
Dell! If the Quebec Liberals loose Outremont do they not have only themselves to blame, why blame Stephane Dion, who after all is leader of the complete party and not responsible for what happens in just one province.
While I deeply respect Stephane Dion, I do believe Canadians are tired of Quebecers, and Bob Rae would have been a much better choice. Iggy should go home to his beloved U.S..
Hopefully, there will be a split, and the Centrists in the Liberal Party will join forces with the Greens and give us all a real party we can support, a party whose values are 100% Canadian. Time will tell.
When the Federal election is called it is going to be one of the hardest to win for either the Liberals or the CPC. Maybe the CPC will split as well and those Centrist members will join in with the Greens as well?
All who have good ideas are welcome in the Green Party. Then we can be about rebuilding from the ruins left by both major parties in their lust for power over prosperity for the people.
BNTW, the democracy that happens on the GPO boad online helped form the platform they released yesterday. That is what I call true democracy. Not a bunch of knowitalls in a back room, but all the memerbs and supporters voicing their beliefs. BTW, the overwhelming voices were for a single school system, and the abolishment of the Catholic boards. One issue that firmed up based on what the people wanted, and they spoke out very long and strong on the subject.
Ask yourself this question, does the party you like have such online discusions? Do you have to come to Garth’s to have a voice? Do you tell the leadership what you want, or do they tell you what you will get? You need to ask those questions and fulfill your duty as a citizen.
Funny, how every one of we immigrants were told that voting is a duty of citizenship. Too bad so many native born Canadians think it is not.
This is a promise that had best never be broken!
Day firm on police warrants for access to Internet user data
It interesting to note that the major challenge in Montreal to the Liberals is not the Conservatives but the NDP and PQ. While the sponsorship scandal is still tainting the Liberal Party in that part of Quebec, it may be that the Conservative tainting of Quebec federal politics may be helping the NDP.
Slip Slidin’ Away is still the Number One Hit!
Average home price slips $6,600 in August
Yep, people are tired of paying off the Seller’s 2nd and 3rd mortgage debt, knowing they will be left holding the bag as prices drop.
Why are homes so cheap in Quebec? Look at the charts.
CRAP called for icing?
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/
Dell! If the Quebec Liberals loose Outremont do they not have only themselves to blame, why blame Stephane Dion, who after all is leader of the complete party and not responsible for what happens in just one province.
By Judy Roberts on 09.14.07 12:29 pm
Naw Judy, let them gloat, Harper has no prayer of getting his majority, so let them spin away, makes them feel good for a day..they need that!
BTW, the overwhelming voices were for a single school system, and the abolishment of the Catholic boards. By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 12:41 pm
This is provincial politics, I know, but answer me this question, Bill.
If you scrap the Catholic Boards and only have one board, would we still have religious schools, Catholic, Dutch Reform, Jewish etc. under that one board?
The reason I ask is that the Ont Libs are saying it will cost huge dollars to fund religious schools. But what if these kids went to public schools. Surely theses would need additional funding as some of the schools wouldn’t be big enough.
And the Cons are saying that maybe their would be savings if the religious schools shared buildings with the public schools. Since existing religious schools already have their own buildings, they don’t want to be part of a public school. They want government funding.
Seems to me neither side understands the issue, which is all people pay education taxes, yet those that chose to send their kids to a religious school, ther than Catholic, receive no government funding for their kids education.
BTW. My Catholic High School in the UK is now a 6th form college (Grade 12/13).
The lower grades were merged/assimilated into the public system. However, the school still remains Catholic (St. Mary’s) yet, the student population is 75% plus muslim!
Ah Lethbridge,
My sister and brother-in-law use to live there years ago. It is really a very nice place to live, the mountains to the west and big sky to the east. I flew out there to help them move back east to Ontario. My brother-in-law and I drove his family vehicles /w two trailers from Lethbridge to Ontario. I still remember that trip and the adventures we had during those four or five days.
Anyhoo Garth, when will your next townhall be here in Ontario? Where will it be?
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 12:41 pm
Great post, Bill. I agree with your comments that “centrists,” whom I would refer to as “progressives,” should join together. Your centrists and my progressives, we find ourselves supporting all of the federal parties for various reasons, some of as us pure progressives and some of us as progressives on some modes of thought and not on others, e.g. progressive on domestic policy but not on economic policy, progressive on social issues but not on foreign policy, etc..
The fact is, progressives can find common ground on many issues. Progressives look to the future for inspiration, rather than to the past. Progressives don’t accept the false dichotomies and forced choices that frame so much of our public debate, like fairness versus prosperity or environment versus economy. Progressives believe that fairness as a value and prosperity as a goal form a virtuous circle, not a tough trade-off.
There is also harmony among progessives on views on government. Progressive views consider empowerment and protection as the two main tenents of government.
- Empowerment includes public infrastructure, education, health, government developed communications, banking systems, institutions that make the stock market possible, the court system, etc. Let’s remember that government empowerment makes business possible. Nobody makes money in Canada without the progressive empowerment by government.
- Protection is far more than the military, police and fire departments. It includes consumer protection, worker protection, environmental protection, public health, food and drug safety, social security, and other safety nets. It also includes protection from the government, itself, and hence a balance of powers, openness, fundamental rights and so on.
Isn’t it interesting that empowerment and protection are truly two Canadian values, as well. That’s why the progressive movement in Canada is the only truly patriotic Canadian movement.
I’ve been thinking about joining the Greens for a while now but am not yet decided. Until the Green Party shows me that they can gather together progressives from across the political spectrum, I’m holding my cards close to my chest.
Nice chattin’ with ya,
-R
Funny, how every one of we immigrants were told that voting is a duty of citizenship. Too bad so many native born Canadians think it is not.
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 12:41 pm
We have a saying as to why we became Canadian Citizens… “No taxation without representation!” and so, regardless of the gaggle running, we vote.
James- Chatham said:
AGGGGGHHHHHH!
lololol!!
We also say, “Well, that blowed up real good,” every now and again too. But you have to be here to appreciate why.
Geo
Bill,…
I’ll help Iggy pack, I’ll drive him to the border,… I’ll help him find a place to live. I hate Iggy the Iggyiot.
While Mr. Dion and the Liberals appear to be in a bit of trouble in Quebec, I can’t help but wonder how offset that will be by those outside of Quebec who are totally PO’d with Mr. Harper and his CONs…
AS well, a general comment about those who feel that it is proper to abolish the Catholic School System.
The Catholic School System was a negotiated (in good faith) right. It is in the BNA Act as well as our Constitution.
Just a couple comments….
We cannot just start to decide which parts of agreements and constitutions we no longer like or wish to support. To do so is leading us down a very slippery slope.
If it is desired to amlagamate all school boards, then it should be done in a negotiated process that includes ALL boards affected.
One of Canada’s strenghts is our multiculturalism. Not supporting minority rights (including religious rights), and actively trying to avoid doing so or undoing those we are already supporting, will not be a good reflection of our society.
I believe that those against supporting faith based schools, are doing so for some underlying racist reason/s.
In fact, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before the issue lands in front of the Canada and Ontario Human Rights Board. Remember, something doesn’t have to have the INTENT to be racist, but only has to have the effect of being racist.
This whole issue is based on voodoo economics and is a total red herring.
If all school boards acted in a responsible manner, and stopped all the financial abuse and waste, the 400 to 500 million needed to fund faith based school would be a non starter.
TGIF!! – I wish everyone an awesome weekend. Spend it with family. That is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in our lives.
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 11:37 am
Montrealer here
Right on James. The protest vote might sink the Lib candidate, but the real issue is the role the BQ have to play.
They do not consider the health of rest of Canada in their strategy, and if they have to support Harpero maintain their control, they will. The extremes the Harpoids have used to bribe and buy votes is recognised by the electorate here, and may have caused more problems against the CONS than they had before. No one wants to be seen as “bought” – particularly proud Quebecois.
Note the Bloc support the CONS as they are seen as helping separation and “nationhood”. From the crud written by trolls, they seem to want Canada split up for their selfish agendas. So sad…
Quebecois majority are pragmatic, politically astute and while not wanting separation, they will back a regional party as long as they (not me) feel it is in the province’s best interests. Politics are a daily thing here, considering all the language talk, nationhood, etc. etc.
For the trolls trying to say Dion will never bring the Quebec vote, well, the Quebec Libs have not had majority representation in the HoC for quite a while… Not a Dion problem really.
BTW, I met Mr. Dion several years ago when he was representing his riding in our regional manpower planning. He is intelligent, listens more than speaks, asks pertinent questions, and tries to create consensus between differing views. He is democratic – not autocratic. Too bad the trolls prefer chutzpah over true honest leadership character.
(chutzpah is used indignantly, to describe someone who has over-stepped the boundaries of accepted behavior with no shame. One example given of the ultimate of chutzpah is: “A boy, having just been convicted of murdering his parents, begs the judge for leniency because he is an orphan.”)
I am NOT a die-hard Liberal, and try to vote FOR something rather than against something. My past Rhino vote was a way to be counted and show no main party was offering what I sought. Better to protest vote than not vote at all. Even voting fo the Marijuana Party is better than not voting – and definitely a BETTER vote than Harperite!!!
My leanings are towards proportional representation, which I recognise typically causes PERMANENT MINORITY GOVERNMENT. We need some Green Party involvement, and maybe even Rhino or PotParty, if we want the HoC to reflect our demographics. I strongly believe that P-R would get more young people involved as EVERY vote would hold value, and we would not have the unacceptable situation like the present where 60% voted AGAINST the CONS, yet we must suffer their dictatorship.
BTW, Garth, thank you for your unending work, and extreme effort to restore democracy in our country.
By John G on 09.14.07 12:25 pm
Well, IF the NDP win Outremont, I think it means alot of things, and not just to the Liberals. It would mean a rejection of the Bloc and soveigenty, AND a rejection of the Conservatives…and THAT is more telling than hit Dion will take.
It SHOULD be a clear signal that Quebeckers still have not forgiven the Liberal party, and that Harper has FAILED to make inroads into that province – despite all the billions he has thrown at them. It would also show that they don’t want to seperate.
It will be interesting to see the outcome…
“I’ll give you an idea of how much of a panic the Liberals are in,†Fife said. “They told all their workers in Ottawa to get to Montreal this weekend. They need them on the ground to bring out the vote in Outremont.â€
When it comes to elections, Fife does not know his ass from a hole in the ground!
Do you not think the Tories, the Dippers and the Bloc are all doing the same? All of the parties will have all of their Ottawa staffers on the ground in Quebec this weekend.
Once again CTV led by “Fat Arse” Duffy, is showing it’s completely partison bent in trying to make the news as opposed to reporting it.
I seem to recall their last weekend polls before the last federal election, Harpo with his 18 point lead, cruising to a huge majority, Blah Blah, Blah.
Memo to all of you Liberal partisans: Stephane Dion is doing just fine. The Liberals will form government whenever the election comes. Stop worrying about the so-called Ottawa insiders and experts they, like Fife Have their heads up their butts and have not been right about anything in years.
Garth
You better get your butt over to Outremont and save Dion’s ass, he is headed for disaster!
Steve
Garth : Are you now heading dirctly to Quebec where three important by-elections are taking place next week? Articlt in Toronto Star doesn’t sound to encouraging. I am surprised that you didn’t spend the last two or three weeks doing town hall meetings in those three ridings instead of flogging that Western wilderness!! Sounds like the NDP and Bloc will clean up……would be a shame to have the NDP pick up that seat in Quebec.
Sounds like the NDP and Bloc will clean up……would be a shame to have the NDP pick up that seat in Quebec.
By david on 09.14.07 4:09 pm
That would be better than the NDP and CPC cleaning up which was the jist of the CTV report by Mr. Fife. At least if the Bloq wins one or two of the ridings, they may feel comfortable in bringing down PMSH. If the Bloq doesn’t win any of the three, forget about an election anytime soon.
By Reg on 09.14.07 2:34 pm
No one would have raised the issue, so your perception that those opposed to faith based schools getting funding could have unlying racist tendencies is BS. The issue outlined by Mr. Tory was one of fairness and the response has been fairness would be one system for all. I cannot see how that is racist. Maybe we don’t want seven board buildings like the two we having facing one another in Mississauga, maybe we want to have some government control on how students are evangelized in our publicly funded schools. It would seem to me the fairest way of all would be to have one system, and allow the faith communities to evangelize their own within their faith communities.
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 1:19 pm
Green Plan for Education
How about that something actually in writing from a political party, eh? What a unique democratic concept,
And I think this may be the reason Tory is trying his gambit?
The UN Human Rights Committee has censured Ontario twice (in 1999 and again in 2005) for violating the equality of its own citizens by funding Roman Catholic schools but not schools of other religions.
Seems to me such informing of the people is a basic charateristic of real leadership? Not mere rhetoric and smoke and mirrors, followed by inaction because they have no real viable plan, and broken promises until the next election.
This is the overall Ontario Green Platform
“This whole issue is based on voodoo economics and is a total red herring.
If all school boards acted in a responsible manner, and stopped all the financial abuse and waste, the 400 to 500 million needed to fund faith based school would be a non starter.”
Reg, if politicians were honest, we would have tons of money to spread around as well, the big if word is never going to happen in Ontario and Canada, Stealing from the taxpayer is well entrenched by too many who hold positions of power. They just need to go to the taxpayer when they run out of money. Canadian voters do not have the intestinal fortitude to throw out the Liberals and Conservatives and put in a new party. They prefer to have the status qou and have their pockets picked. Look at the latest revelation from Newfoundland….governments are a joke!
Progressives believe that fairness as a value and prosperity as a goal form a virtuous circle, not a tough trade-off.
By Rob Wiebe on 09.14.07 1:40 pm
Rob, beautifully stated. I can add nothing to your intelligent comments and points. Thank you.
Rather than have you look back, here is their platform Ontario Green Platform
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 1:19 pm
You just change the name of all the Catholic schools, we already have the buildings…?
I hate Iggy the Iggyiot.
By Zorpheous on 09.14.07 2:00 pm
ROFLMAO! Good one. That must be the result of too much education, and not enough living. About like Citiots! Too much stress and not enough life.
“No taxation without representation!†and so, regardless of the gaggle running, we vote.
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 1:42 pm
Right ON! However, I believe that phrase was coined by a few Yanks back about 1775 and acted on in 1776? But, what the Hey? We are all from the same bunch of poor New Worlders that came here looking for a better life, and freedom from tyranny. So how have we elected the current Tyranical idiots like Bush and Harper? Sheesh!
By Tim N on 09.14.07 2:59 pm
It also means the NDP candidate also happens to be one of the most popular politicians in the province, a former liberal cabinet minister.
Dion must win all three Quebec by-elections for the Liberal to prove that his leadership is effective in Quebec, his home province.
If the Liberals fail to win any of the by-elections, they must reassess Dion’s leadership, and decide if he is capable of winning over voters anywhere in Canada.
Currently polls indicate that the Liberal party stands at ~30%, while Dion’s popularity as a leader is between 10 – 16%. A party leader’s popularity cannot lag the party’s popularity, otherwise he is dragging the party down.
Just imagine if somebody else had won the Liberal leadership, and where the party might have been in the polls.
I wonder what you said to all those farmers in Lethbridge who don’t want the Wheat Board Garth?
Did you promise them the Liberal Party wouldn’t send farmers to jail next time around for simply selling thier wheat and barley outside the Pool?
Or was it lots of nice, fuzzy students attending your talk.
If you think there’s a unanimous opinion on the CWB, you simply have not been there. — Garth
Mr Harper I can’t take anymore good news!
Please do something fast…our economy is now one of the best in the world, our dollar is thru the roof, our employment rate is the lowest in 50 years, our crime is down, our position in the world is once again significant, our country is no longer threatened with quebec seperation……please no more good news! No scandals, no stealing, nothing to write about….
Please Mr Harper I can’t stand it anymore..I know, lets get the Liberals back, they can screw the whole thing up in a nanosecond1 LOL
FYI: 9-11-2007 WHAT’S GOING ON?
(I hope this is only an internet consperacy theory?)
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_carol_wo_070911_9_11_2007__what_s_go.htm
Why the hate necessary? This is so stupid – beloved US – Ignatieff only worked in the US for 4 years – some of the MP’s from both parties went to university in the US which would mean living there for about the same time. What a bunch of useless comments just because someone doesn’t like someone else.
Don’t ever kid yourselves about Bob Rae either.
maybe Rhino? on 09.14.07 2:44 pm
Well said, mon ami.
As you mentioned, Quebec breathes politics. Everything in Quebec is political. I often wish it were less so. Then maybe I would consider coming back.
Example of how political everyday things can be in Quebec. Lunch bill at a downtown Montreal restaurant (this would have been late 1990’s) listed the PST and GST as
La taxe à Lucien (Bouchard)
La taxe à Jean (Chretien)
In the meantime I make do with socializing with fellow ex-pat Montrealers out here on the Wet Coast and we all wonder why no restaurant or deli outside of Montreal can make a decent smoked meat sandwich. One of life’s unsolvable mysteries.
“their voting habits leave much to be desired”
Typical liberal. Its that arrogance that has a lot to do with the voting habits most have.
As this blog is entitled “The end”, may I suggest that it may not necessarily be.
Coincidently, today, Newfoundland and Labrador’s Auditor General released a report on improper spending by MPPs going back to 1989.
A.G. John Noseworthy noted improper use of constituency money:
However, Noseworthy — whose 2006 reports led to criminal charges and a judicial review of legislative spending — identified numerous instances of spending that went beyond ordinary rules.
Almost all politicians, for instance, were found to have used their allowances to make donations to community, sports, school and charitable groups.
The report provides numerous examples of other types of questionable spending.
Nine politicians from three parties, for instance, were found to have made claims of personal items that included artwork, travel costs, electronics, jewelry and more.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2007/09/14/audit-report.html
Garth’s response to individuals who have queried him about the propriety of using his constituency budget for paersonal and/or party travel expenses have been dismissed by him here and elsewhere.
In addition, questions about appropriate use of parliamentary mailing privileges have been dismissed by him by claiming that PM Harper does the same thing into his riding, so it’s acceptable.
This example from NL demonstrates that, even up to twenty years after the fact, you can still be held personally responsible for improper expeditures, irrespective of the current mood at the time when the infractions occured.
I guess the NL politicians somehow thought they were above certain norms and laws.
Only an idiot from Hogtown would leave the west coast, come to Cowtown and order fish. Cowtown won’t miss you, Garth. It’s time you went home and actually did some work for the people who mistakenly elected you. Thanks for your monetary contribution to the Alberta economy though. Now if you’ll just come clean about how much your failed venture out west cost the taxpayers……
Folks like you are clearly working hard to give the West a welcoming reputation. — Garth
Not supporting minority rights (including religious rights), and actively trying to avoid doing so or undoing those we are already supporting, will not be a good reflection of our society.
By Reg on 09.14.07 2:34 pm
Well, first of all Reg, religious education at taxpayer expense is not a Religious right! Give your head a shake, eh?
We are all from the same bunch of poor New Worlders that came here looking for a better life, and freedom from tyranny. – By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 5:11 pm
Sorry to disappoint, but I’m a Red Coat.
But you know, the Red Coats had the same problem the Allies are having in Afghanistan; fighting a war against “insurgents” who know the lay of the land, being spread too thinly and at the end of a supply chain that can’t keep up.
Its ironic how history keeps repeating itself.
The Nightmare Scenario
You can’t spin these results, the word “devastating” comes to mind, for the Liberals at least:
Outremont:
NDP 38%
Libs 32%
Bloc 14%
Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot
Bloc 49%
Cons 32%
NDP 7%
Libs 5%
Roberval-La-Saint_jean
Cons 43%
Bloc 37%
Lib 12%
NDP 4%
Outremont aside, the fourth place, paltry 5% in Saint-Hy speaks to basic extermination with francophones for the Liberals. Hard to find anything positive in these numbers for the Liberals, really hard.
If, and this is still a big if, these numbers come down like the above, then Dion and the Liberals suffer a huge blow, that isn’t easily discounted. A possible Conservative victory provides plenty to crow about, and the NDP would be beyond ecstatic to win in a former Liberal stronghold. The Liberals would be left to damage control, as the realization that the last bastion of support is threatened and Dion looks an albatross.
You don’t want to sound alarmist, but neither should anyone rationalize away the fundamental problems. The above is the worst-case scenario for the Liberals, a nightmare that will haunt the party moving forward. Should be a fascinating night, that looks a watershed.
…………………………………………………
Far and Wide Lib Blog – Friday, September 14, 2007
http://farnwide.blogspot.com/2007/09/nightmare-scenario.html
I guess the NL politicians somehow thought they were above certain norms and laws.
By Old Enough to Remember on 09.14.07 6:34 pm
I think you could take out “the NL” out of that sentence and change “thought” to “think” and “were” to “are” and still be pretty bang on…and who can blame them, Canadians love lying and thieving politicians, we keep voting them back in…so we can’t care that much? We will see if the next elction is any different, I sincerely doubt it. Canadians are too afraid to try something new. They are content to throw their money to the thieves and liars.
So how have we elected the current Tyranical idiots like Bush and Harper? Sheesh!
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 5:11 pm
Yes, the downfall of the British Empire has a lot to answer for. (Include Mr. Howard AUS. in you list!)
John G,
Are you proffessionally trained idiot, or is this a natural tallent?
First off, the Canadian dollar is only increasing verus the the USD because the USD has been devalued against the euro. Estentially the dollar is up thanks to the disasterous moron in the Whitehouse, so thank george w not herpo.
more later
Excellent job of taking the time, trouble and interest in travelling this great land of ours, listening to peoples’ thoughts and ideas as well as writing daily columns.
Now a well-deserved rest for Dorothy, Esther and yourself — then it’s back to the grindstone. Kick some more tory butt!
The following link gives a much more realistic view of how delusional dubya is, and it’s not a pretty picture!
http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Olbermann_Iraq_vet_reality_checks_Bush_0913.html
By Tim N on 09.14.07 2:59 pm
It also means the NDP candidate also happens to be one of the most popular politicians in the province, a former liberal cabinet minister.
By pjw on 09.14.07 5:14 pm
I don’t doubt it – and i’m not trying to take anything away from the NDP or the candidate on this – I’m just saying that even though it would look bad on Dion and the Libs, it would also look bad on the Bloc and the Cons. I don’t think any of those 3 parties should be slamming any of the others if that seat goes orange.
Only an idiot from Hogtown would leave the west coast, come to Cowtown and order fish.
Bob, you missed a perfect opportunity to promote fly fishing for trout on the Bow River, which runs right through Calgary.
Some of the best fly fishing in the world, I’ve heard.
http://bowriveralberta.com/bowriveralbertaflyfishing.htm
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.14.07 5:45 pm
I remember studying these little Paramecia worms in biology class in High School. You could cut them in half lengthwise, and they would regenerate to missing half. They feed off of bacteria, but then the bacteria feed off of them.
We also dissected frogs and watched their hearts still beating after we cut them out. We believed it because we saw it. We don’t believe the 9/11 government version simply because the facts do not support doing so. It is known as the Scientific Method based on Aristotle’s Logic.
Michael Moore and ‘The Fifth Estate’ (who broadcast the facts before F-9/11 was released BTW) have far more credibility. Those who disagree can return to reading ‘My Pet Goat’ like Bush, who totally failed to react in any normal manner to the news, did.
I suspect the worms have more intellect than Bush?
Thank God he wasn’t sent into combat in ‘Nam to waste a multi-million dollar fighter that could be used by someone actually qualified to fly it.
Garth,
You said:
“If you think there’s a unanimous opinion on the CWB, you simply have not been there. — Garth”
Fair enough, no unanimous opinion. But that works both ways. There sure is no MAJORITY that says there should be sole-source marketing for prairie wheat or barley. Unlike grain farmers in Ontario and Quebec, EVERY farmer should have the option to market their grain by any means that they choose.
I could careless what farmers in Saskatchewan or Manitoba choose to do (but support wholeheartedly their right to sell their product to whomever they choose), but in Alberta, Alberta farmers in the majority want marketing choice. Just like those farmers in Ontario and Quebec.
Now wouldn’t that be a fair thing?
Ed the Hun
By Myron on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
Please sound like an alarmist…if the Cons or Libs win the next federal election, we will have more of the same, lies, thieving and arrogance…please sound the alarm!!!
Its ironic how history keeps repeating itself.
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
It certainly is. Red Coat, eh? Well, perhaps my British ancestory, and a birth in aplce beyond my control does not count? I ahve long believed that the Yanks gave up their significant history when they rejected afiiliation with the Crown.
At least the Crown has lifelong training to prepare them for leadership, unlike some Texas Oilman Loser. I have long said, also, that the U.S. Presidents are the greatest reason monarchy is still a good idea. LOL
“Seems to me neither side understands the issue, which is all people pay education taxes, yet those that chose to send their kids to a religious school, other than Catholic, receive no government funding for their kids education.”
By James – Chatham on 09.14.07 1:19 pm
The Ontario education system is very unfair. In comparison, in BC all private schools are eligible for at least some public funding, provided that they meet the same requirements as those expected in a public school system. In BC there are two classifications of private schools that are funded by the government. The difference is that Group 1 schools have a per-student operating cost similar to a local public school district, whereas Group 2 schools have a per-student operating cost that exceeds that of a local public school district. Group 1 schools receive 50 percent of the cost per student in public school districts while Group 2 schools receive 35 percent.
From what I can tell, the BC system works reasonably well. Those who opt for private schooling get at least some value for their education tax dollars. The unionized public school teachers are known to resent public funding of private schools, but even they have to admit that private schools take some of the financial strain off the public system.
An interesting development in BC is that the government now fully funds distance learning. Many high school students are now pursuing highly individualized study programs that often include a combination of in-school courses and home-study courses. This sort of learning seems to be well-suited for contemporary lifestyles.
By Myron on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
I am surprized the Lottery Corps don’t allow the public to bet on percentage of Party votes won. They would make a fortune but that would be too easy.
By Myron on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
Please sound like an alarmist…if the Cons or Libs win the next federal election, we will have more of the same, lies, thieving and arrogance…please sound the alarm!!!
By pjw on 09.14.07 8:20 pm
……………..
By Myron on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
I am surprized the Lottery Corps don’t allow the public to bet on percentage of Party votes won. They would make a fortune but that would be too easy.
By Captain George on 09.14.07 8:43 pm
……………………………..
Sorry for the confusion, but that posting was from the Far And Wide Liberal blogger .. not me.
Devout Liberals are now grasping the consequences of the disasterous Dion leadership, and speaking out ever so gently.
If Liberals lose all 3 Quebec by-election, will Dion survive to the end of the week?
“Estentially the dollar is up thanks to the disasterous moron in the Whitehouse, so thank george w not herpo-Zorpheuos
Spoken with the tollerance of a true Leftie…..you guys are so transparent…
“the news comes as several strategists think the currency will appreciate further. The loonie will likely hit 98 cents by the end of next week “as the greenback continues to be pressured across the board,†said David Powell, currency strategist at IDEAglobal.
Sentiment against the U.S. currency, which had hit record lows this week against the euro, soured further Friday with a report showing retail sales posted a smaller-than-expected increase. That added to fears that consumers in the world’s largest economy are putting the brakes on spending.
In Canada, meantime, manufacturing shipments unexpectedly jumped to a four-month high, rising 2.3 per cent to $50 billion after a drop in June. That adds to healthy reports lately on housing, jobs and trade”
CTV News
Proving yet again that your mouth is bigger than your brains Zorpheus Maximus,,,,,,
Garth, although we often differ in opinion and perspective, kudo’s for returning your blog to a truly open forum…free from partisan sensorship….well done
Well, first of all Reg, religious education at taxpayer expense is not a Religious right! Give your head a shake, eh?
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.14.07 6:49 pm
Bill, it IS a right. It is guaranteed in our Constitution and the BNA act.
Now, if you’re saying that it is okay to take away that right because a majority feel it is what should be done, then I hope you won’t mind when another group decides to take away some other right that you might feel strongly about.
The point I’m trying to make is that it is a dangerous thing to start taking away things that are guaranteed in our Constitution and BNA act. So we start by eliminating the separate school system. What is next?
Because there WILL be a next.
I believe at the end of this it will probably come down to this. If the separate school system can show how they are different in a concrete and scientific way, it will be safe. If it should turn out the systems are the same but different in name only, then it will be amalgamated into the current public system.
This is an issue that people at all levels in the separate school system have been preparing for. This issue is not a surprise to them at all.
As for other faith based schools, there is no reason to believe it would not work as well for them as it has for the Catholic schools.
I get the feeling that many are against extending funding because they are uneasy about the creeping extremism that is in our society. Those are definitely legitimate concerns. However, if handled correctly, I think extending funding would help our society out by integrating these other faiths more closely.
John G.
What do you not understand about the US dollar losing to the euro currency, the rise in our dollar has nothing to do Harper.
As for unemployment, those numbers started dropping under Cretien (I never vote for him, so stick a cork in it)
Our books were balanced under the Cretien Liberals.
Those are the facts, plain and simple. Much of economic success is due to Cretien Government.
Now, if you have some actual hard data to prove your point please lets see it,… ~smile~ Unlike you, I do not drink the party kool-aid (liberal or CPC),… anymore,… I use to vote PC all the time, and never question the party line,…
So John G. you are claiming that Harper’s policies are causing the Euro to increase versus the US Greenback? Ya, right.
So let me guess, before Harper came to power, the Canadian dollar shot up from 0.62 USD to 0.9704 USD right? Unemployment before Harper took office use at 10.7 percent and then suddenly changed over night? Right.
No you blithering idiot, our dollar is strong because of oil prices, exports have been sliding because of the higher dollar (ya there will be up and down fluxes in the trade balance, and I hope they improve)
Stop drinking the party kool-aid, you will think clearer.
Harper has been spending more money than any other Government, he abuses the election laws like the liberals past and he can’t even write descent elections laws that clear and to the point and convey the his intent. Harper was left with a surplus, but he is pissing that away by trying to buy votes in Quebec (hey isn’t that another liberal quality?) Man, I don’t know if can take the Liberal Harpers try to act the Conservative Cretiens any more,… or is it the other way around,…. so hard to tell,… can you explain the difference, cause I sure can’t tell the difference.
Garth, you were but an hour or so’s drive from a real haven of restorativeness, the lesser known, yet true jewel of the Rockies, Waterton National Park, and it’s US counterpart Glacier. It’s where prairie abruptly meets mountain, with little in the way of transition. These photos ought to give you an idea of the flavour:
here,
here, and
here.
And to countervail excessive calmness en route, you could have picked off any number of gophers with your bike on the road down from Pincher Creek.
And now the bright side.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6993612.stm
“Harper was left with a surplus, but he is pissing that away by trying to buy votes in Quebec”
Yup that’s why last week it was reported that the surplus is 3 times larger than expected thus far….do you actually read or just spew….obviously clueless…debate over…
Reg: Are religious schools public schools? Do they allow students to enrol who are not of their faith? Do they hire teachers without asking their religious affiliation? Until all religious schools who want public funds can answer yes to those questions than they do not qualify for public funding as they discriminate based on religion.
Garth..it appears Dion is now publicly criticizing the 24 Liberals who voted with the Gov on Afghanistan…this includes you and Bill Graham…etc…any comment?
No. Get your facts straight. — Garth
The point I’m trying to make is that it is a dangerous thing to start taking away things that are guaranteed in our Constitution and BNA act. So we start by eliminating the separate school system. What is next?
By Reg on 09.14.07 9:44 pm
Newfoundland did it a number of years ago and the sky hasn’t fallen yet.
John G.
~evil grin~
“Yup that’s why last week it was reported that the surplus is 3 times larger than expected thus far….do you actually read or just spew….obviously clueless…debate over…”
Oh so he is over taxing us like the liberals of old then too, eh? I love leaving those bait hooks for fish like yourself to swallow whole.
So Harper
1) spends like the liberals of old,
2) over taxes us like liberals of old,
3) violates the election laws like liberals of old
4) increase my taxes like liberals of old (I have seen no tax relief, in fact my taxes have gone up, thanks to both Dalton and Harper)
5) he tries to buy votes in Quebec like the liberals of old.
6) Ignores the environment like the liberals of old.
I also noticed you failed to disprove any the economic gain that the liberals of old gave him. Canada’s curretn economic success is due much in part to the form liberals. Oh, and I never once vote for Jean Cretein, but I willing to give credit where credit is due.
Honestly John, I don’t think I can take any more of Harper’s Liberal/socialist tax and spend policies. We need a real fiscal conservative government in Ottawa and the Harper Liberal/Socialist ain’t it. Just because you slap a sticker that says “conservative” doesn’t make it so. Hey John, do you think Harper might be the secret love child of Jean and Paul? That would explain a lot.
By Judy on 09.14.07 10:44 pm
Judy, Catholic high schools do enroll non Catholics and have non Catholics on their teaching staff. Do they ask the question yes, can it be a barrier down the line )i.e. Department head) yes. The main concerns I have are dollars and content. There are ways around the common curicculum (by adding comments and attitude) and no real way of checking the indoctrination of students.
I get the feeling that many are against extending funding because they are uneasy about the creeping extremism that is in our society. Those are definitely legitimate concerns. However, if handled correctly, I think extending funding would help our society out by integrating these other faiths more closely.
By Reg on 09.14.07 9:44 pm
Please explain to me how children who will be separated from the age of 5 until 18 will learn to grow together in a society. Please explain how for example Catholics who are taught that Catholicism is the one true faith will be tolerant and accepting of others faith. Please explain how hypothetically if the faith representative of one of these new communities evangelizes by pointing out that others are unfaithful to the one true God will be overseen by the Government of Ontario?
This was about fairness, according to Mr. Tory and fairness would be one system for all. Many things have changed over the years, I don’t think it would be the end of the world if we moved to one system. Quite honestly, many of the students, in fact, I am willing to bet the majority of high school students who attended Catholic Schools rarely if ever attend Mass, so who are we kidding here.
By Myron on 09.14.07 9:00 pm
Which devout liberals are those Myron?
Yup that’s why last week it was reported that the surplus is 3 times larger than expected thus far….do you actually read or just spew….obviously clueless…debate over…
By John G on 09.14.07 10:44 pm
hmmm… Anyone else remember when Harper used to BASH Martin non-stop about not being able to project surpluses correctly?
John: I thought Harper promised not to run a surplus. He said running a surplus meant that Canadians were being 0ver-taxed? So why is he over-taxing us when he promised not to?
Muskoka,
“… Bush, who totally failed to react in any normal manner to the news ..”
It has amazed me for years that the American Psychiatric Association has managed to maintain silence on Bush and a symptom/sign of personality disorder known as “inadequate affect”. The expression in his eyes and on his face stays pretty much the same regardless of circumstances, with the “My Pet Goat” incident merely an outstanding example among all the recorded TV appearances available.
We may have to wait 10 or 20 years before someone tackles the issue of just what kind of a president the USA had in G.W.B.
By Ed the Hun on 09.14.07 7:33 pm
Ed,
While the issue is rather moot to me regarding the CWB, I do stand up for truth and accuracy. My understanding is that the farmers who voted against it were a small percentage of the total farmer population, yet those that did vote voted against it. How Canadian, a majority from a minority seems to be our way, eh?
Carry on mon ami!
By Reg on 09.14.07 9:44 pm
Dangerous is it? I think it is only dangerous to your and the other Catholics who want to segregate your children at public expense, all in order to assure your Church has followers well into the future.
By Myron on 09.14.07 6:56 pm
If these polls become reality, it leaves Harperites stoking their feathers doesn’t it? One Bloc and one CPC adds up to 2 votes for in the H. of C. for Harper and one ???? Well who knows?
I am curious about the schematics here though. The Bloc support seems right for the times. The lead by CPC in one riding may just be that old and well acknowledged political astuteness of Quebec voters, but the NDP? Waz up? Is this a predominantly Anglophone and or new immigrant area?
Anyone in the know here?
Anyone in the know here?
By Greg on 09.15.07 11:31 am
The fellow running for the NDP was a former Liberal cabinet minister and is very popular in Quebec.
Those are the facts, plain and simple. Much of economic success is due to Cretien Government.
By Zorpheous on 09.14.07 9:57 pm
That’s a real knee slapper! Chretien did not change one single economic policy of Mr. Mulroney’s. Not one. Mulroney put all the ducks in a row for recovery of the world wide recession and even after campaigning against the GST & Free trade, he left them in place and even enhanced them; like adding the GST to children’s clothes, ladies feminine products and much more. Then he moved the Free Trade into China and a host of other countries that have no food safety standards or chemical regulations. Yeah, Chretien rode Mulroney’s policies all the way to economic success. Oh, and Paul Martin stealing the annual E.I. funds also gave the huge surpluses a big boost.
Chretien and Martin were frauds. Ask Garth. He can tell you all about it. L
Myron wrote:
The Nightmare Scenario
You can’t spin these results, the word “devastating†comes to mind, for the Liberals at least:
Outremont:
NDP 38%
Libs 32%
Bloc 14%
Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot
Bloc 49%
Cons 32%
NDP 7%
Libs 5%
Roberval-La-Saint_jean
Cons 43%
Bloc 37%
Lib 12%
NDP 4
Devastating? Actually, no.
Let’s look at the vote in those three riding in the Jan, 2006 election
Outremont
Lib 35.18%
BQ 29.01%
NDP 17.2%
Con 12.73%
St. Hyacinthe-Bagot
BQ 56.02%
Con 24.8%
Lib 9.83%
NDP 5.48%
GRN 3.87%
Roberval
BQ 45.2%
CON 37.18%
Lib 7.75%
NDP 5.53%
GRN 4.34%
While the Liberals have a 3% point drop it appears more as if Mr. Mulcair, the NDP candidate is taking more votes from the other parties – BQ, Con, Green than from Liberals
St. Hyacinthe & Roberval – while making no inroads into what are normally solid BQ ridings the Liberals aren’t really taking a huge hit again. Not sure that having Ignatieff or Rae leading the Libs would change those nunbers at all either.
The Libs have actually gone UP in St. Hyacinthe, looks like CON support is going to the BQ there.
Roberval,
Looks like soft BQ support is going to the Cons. Looks more like the Cons with ADQ provincial support have switched places with the BQ here.
So, does this look like a ‘devastating indictment of Dion’? Hardly. If you really believe the Lib numbers here would be higher under a different Lib leader I have a bridge to sell you.
By Angry Canadian on 09.15.07 12:52 pm
Haven’t you gotten all your venom out YET? How about some solutions, and don’t try to tell us Harper is a solution.
The past is OVER, done with, and we have today and tomorrow to turn things around away from the rocks.
We may have to wait 10 or 20 years before someone tackles the issue of just what kind of a president the USA had in G.W.B.
By Herb on 09.15.07 10:22 am
Actually, we do not need to, unless we choose to. We no longer wait on the pontifications of the so-called experts. We have sufficient knowledge ourselves to ascertain reality.
Only the most myoptic followers would fail to recognize the dysfunctional attributes he constantly exhibits. The same goes for those who follow any dysfunctional leader. Remember that many of Bush’s supporters also follow the false prophets they think are speaking truth from the Bible.
Perhaps they all would have been better off, and we certainly would be, had they joined in the Jim Jone’s Kool-Aide party? But today they still seek the Kool-Aide, and it comes in Red in the States, and Blue in Canada. The Orange flavour is not a whole lot better, but certainly less deadly to the rest of us. Create an enemy who is out of sight. tell stories about how fearsome the enemy is. Get the masses to follow in the Don Quioxte like valiant war against that enemy, bravely tilting at windmills along the way. That is the leadership they seek, and the leadership they get.
Imagine how popular Bush would have been as St. George fighting the fire breathing Dragon?
When there is a leadership vacuum, then without fail people will follow anyone who speaks out against whatever they conceive to be the cause. In the end it is themselves as Pogo said.
John G. nice try with the neoCon spin on economics. Anyone with a brain knows that the real reason Canada’s economy is on track is due to the Liberals getting the Federal decifit under control and significantly lowering the % of tax dollars that were going into servicing the national debt. As far as the current surplus…this is nothing more than the Federal government getting a windfall from the run-up in world oil prices with the Federal share of royalties. It has nothing to do with public stewardship or good economic policy on the parts of the Harper government.
Mulroney was correct to replace the manufacturing tax in Canada and replace it with the GST. Harper is an idoit for reducing the GST.
Mulroney was correct in pursuing Free Trade with the US. Harper is an idiot for moving away from NAFTA and signing a US-slanted agreement on softwood lumber. The US is already challenging Canada under the new agreement and we’ve lost all of the protection that we had under NAFTA, even though we were clearly winning under NAFTA and the WTO.
So, does this look like a ‘devastating indictment of Dion’? Hardly. If you really believe the Lib numbers here would be higher under a different Lib leader I have a bridge to sell you.
By Frank Frink on 09.15.07 1:53 pm
The reality is that the perception will make Dion take the full responsibility no matter what the reality on the ground. This is the main problem with the cult of leadership that dominates federal politics today. That cult insures that the enemies from within are more dangerous than the enemies from outside.
There is no doubt that the Conservatives will able to spin a Liberal loss in Outremont in their favour especially with influencial individuals in the media so opposed to Dion (Jim Travers, Chantel Hebert, etc.). In politics perception is key.
That’s a real knee slapper! Chretien did not change one single economic policy of Mr. Mulroney’s. Not one.
By Angry Canadian on 09.15.07 12:52 pm
Where Chretien did make major changes from Mulroney was in downloading the deficits onto the provinces. That was one thing that Mulroney tried to avoid.
I am not a fan of the kind of so-called “free trade” which Mulroney introduced. It was a form of managed trade that resulted in domestic tax payers and domestic businesses subsidizing exporters. In the long term it has made some big winners but many more losers including individual taxpayers. We are now far too dependent on commodity exports and foreign ownership of economy.
Bill,
Actually only those farmers who had sold/grown barley in the last few years were allowed to vote. Those who didn’t were not asked (since why ask a farmer regarding his marketing preference for a product that he isn’t growing?).
Ed the Hun