Will we have an election in November?
Well, after predicting we’d see one in April, I’m obviously no oracle. But, in my own defence, I am still convinced the Conservative gods desperately wanted to pull the trigger, but were scared off by wonky poll results. The majority was not there.
Still isn’t of course. But other things have changed. For example, the Quebec by-elections. Voters told the BQ in no uncertain terms that if Duceppe & Co. are going to support Mr. Harper on every vote, then they might as well have a Conservative MP. Already worried about becoming irrelevant to his people, that stimulated Mr. Duceppe to issue a list of Throne Speech demands he knows the Cons cannot deliver.
So, it’s the BQ’s continued existence as a force in Quebec which might have Gilles ready to roll the dice and reassert his intractable demands for his province. I hear he’s deadly serious.
As for the Conservatives, they’re very happy their Quebec strategy worked. You know the one – shovel billions into the province, give it its own seat on a prestigious United Nations body and declare the Quebec people a nation. Little stuff like that. The message is clear – why separate, when Mr. Harper is your favourite rich uncle?
The Cons also believe there is Dion blood in the water, after the Liberals lost Outremont. What few care to recall is that the Libs won this seat with just over 30% of the vote last time, and lost it with 26% of the vote this time – in a by-election with lousy voter turnout. Hardly a right-wing orgy.
The prime minister also knows he has nowhere to go but down over the next two years as the economy softens (thanks to the US meltdown), the environment becomes more of an issue (how can you blame the Libs after four years of your own inaction) and Afghanistan roils (a conflict with no resolution). There are few reasons to believe the popularity of PMSH or his crew will grow in the face of these realities, and they know it.
So, I’d say we have a growing chance the Throne Speech will draw a line in the sand on the Afghan mission and Kyoto, forcing the Libs and BQ to either vote us into an election, or look like weenies (or so Mr. Harper hopes).
So what will we Dion Liberals do?
Well, if I am asked, this will be my advice: Stephane Dion is the anti-Harper, and that is a good image to maintain. Honest and ethical. Principled and trustworthy. Leading by consensus, not threat. So, don’t change, boss.
Second, the party needs to clearly articulate our policy markers. The environment and Afghanistan are crucial, of course, and must be unambiguously defined (not a problem). But this is the age of retail politics, and we need some nice high-def, flat-screen options for voters to lust after. Some should be aimed clearly at the middle-class voter who is pissed her income taxes went up, along with her mortgage rate, that her child care cheque is taxable, and she has no retirement savings at the same time real estate values are softening. Piece of cake, boss. See me on this.
Third, we should kidnap Elizabeth May.
I’ll explain why in the car.
__________________________________________________
Related:
Harper’s team gears up for election
157 comments ↓
Garth,
LMAO! Well, after all the hard work you have been doing for your constituents and all Canadians, I am glad to see you are still able to kick back and ‘get in the bag!’ Great cartoon.
Now, tell me why you want to kidnap Elizabeth May? ;_)
That would be great in QP. Stephane could whip around and let you respond to the Harperettes! Reminds me of something they totally lack…’Total Recall!’
Have a great night.
Do you realistically think that Dion can carry this Liberal message to all Canadians? He is not exactly the best communicator even though he may be a decent chap.
Jean Lapierre on CTV Mike Duffy Live today, said he personally contacted approx 50 Liberal MPs across Canada and asked them 3 killer questions:
1. Do you think Dion will improve with time? Response: Resounding NO !
2. Would you prefer to wait until next spring to take down the government on a popular Budget? Response: Definitely NO !
3. Should Harper government be given more time to resolve the Afghanistan situation? Response: Absolutely NO !
Given this other opinion by Lapierre, I would think that all Liberal MPs will be asked to vote against the Throne Speech and precipitate an election in November.
Is that what you want too, Garth ?
I am going to buy a Liberal membership for each of my four children.I put forth a challange to other parents to do the same!If we don’t stop Harper now, there will be nothing left of Canada for our children to inherit!
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
For a look a the financial system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-fD78zyvI&feature=PlayList&p=D8B8EAC323DC2524&index=0&playnext=1
One possible strategy is to imitate, if not follow the lead of V. Putin.
Don’t know too much about Russian politics, but I do know that some of Putin’s policies have enabled Russia to pay off a lot of their debts, and use their resources to much better effect.
A number of the former Eastern bloc countries are in fiscally terrific shape, the opposite of the US and, to a lesser extent, Canada.
The US has almost maxed out their one and only credit card, so who is going to be left holding the bag, to pay all the bills while working at McJobs?
I’m sure glad I’m getting old — it won’t be our generation that gets caught up in all this, but the next and then
it carries on until . . .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=483321&in_page_id=1770
It looks like Garth is Stephane’s secret weapon, poised as he is at his back. It is a good thing that Garth is not holding a knife.
It is because of Ms May’s decision to run against McKay and the lack of foresight to decide on picking any riding which would ensure her legitamacy of being leader of the Green Party that has me holding back on my voting for the Green Party. So if you were to kidnap her, I would think that it would do more for her and the Liberal Party than just the Green Party.
Why kidnap her. She is already the Liberal candidate in Central Nova and has lost all her credibility within Green ranks. Come to think of it; her and Dion have a lot in common.
LOL
you must have had a bike ride this past sunny weekend, your sense of humour is refreshed!
A gas tax reduction to benefit cities and help drive the economy/interprovincial trade, would be great. Let’s get back to talking about an urban agenda that keeps getting swept aside by other issues. Let’s bring women and minorities to the forefront… Harper is still VERY weak in these areas. A promise of a formal apology to the Sikh community regarding the Komagata Maru incident would help secure at least a half dozen Greater Vancouver and Toronto ridings, and help dump people like Nina Grewal. Lets do something SIGNIFICANT and REAL to clear up the immigration mess and get foreign-trained professionals working – enough lip service already.
Bring Ms May into the liberal fold & do it soon!!!!
Out with Mr Ignatief & forget about Mr Rae–it`s time to clean house & bring in someone we can trust.
Elizabeth May ran in a local riding in the London area & came close to a victory–only a well-respected Local firefighter with an international reputation for his humantitarian efforts stood in her way–& she came close to beating him at that!!
The hand picked Tory candidate went down to a sound defeat.
Having talked to Ms May on a couple of occassions & having seen her in action in London , I believe she would be a fine addition to Mr Dion`s team & may be the right person to inject some “bite” into an upcoming election campaign.
As an Ex-Tory , she certainly would have my vote.
Dr Mike.
Garth…Get real, who in heavens name would want to kidnap Lizzy? ….UGH. “I don’t want her, you can have her, she’s too….etc
Hi Garth
When there is an election what is the liberals stand on income trust? Would you make any changes to the way it is going to be taxed?
Neil ON
The Liberals aren’t ready for an election and time is not on Mr Harpers side the longer he stays in power the worse he looks, sometimes I think he is the Liberals biggest asset.
My greatest fear is the Liberals, NDP and Green Party will split the vote in many ridings enabling the CONs to claim the seat with very little popular vote.
Will we see a repeat of the PC and Reform party splitting of the vote that enabled the Liberals to so easily win for years, only this time on the left?
I am going to buy a Liberal membership for each of my four children.
By w.p. on 09.25.07 12:30 am
That one gave me the giggles! Wasn’t long ago that a Liberal was hung out to dry for robbing kid’s piggy banks! So, what if your kids don’t want to be ‘liberals’? I taught my kids to think for themselves and I don’t even ask them about their political beliefs or religious leanings. If they chose to talk about such things, I respect their feelings at all times. L
Have a very happy day, I know I will.
Does anyone else see a problem with the people in power able to call an election whenever they want? Why can’t the election date be fixed that way MP’s can actually get some work done rather than constantly worry about their image (aka: campaigning). Is there a way to make this a rule? While you’re at it can you make it so the only time MPs can give themselves a raise is at election time? And it has to be part of their platform… and minimum wage has to go up by the same percentage.
Hey Garth, what’s up?
I’d love to see an election. Canadians must have the opportunity to send conservatives back to the fringe where they belong. I’m not convinced that this will happen any time soon, though. Progressives are not united and the CPC have neutralized some important areas of concern that were once the domain of progressives and have effectively discredited Stéphan Dion. Conservatives have successfully shifted political discourse in their favour.
I believe that progressives can shift the debate back but Mr. Dion has to work hard to do so.
How come he’s not talking about the environment?
How come he’s not talking about health care and education?
How come he’s not talking about the economy, research and innovation, immigration?
These are the areas in which the Liberals have cred. These are the areas of success for progressives, they are fundamentally progressive ideas, they are the ideas that Canada was founded on and that carry forth that spirit.
I’d also like to see Mr. Dion be more decisive and assertive on all issues. The Khadr pronouncement is a perfect example in which Mr. Dion was looking past the teleprompter and speaking with conviction. Mr. Dion obviously touched a nerve with the issue and should work hard to bring up more issues like this.
Gotta go,
-R
Hope Dion brings down the Government before all of Canada’s oil and gas companies are sold to foreign interests. While Flaherty worries about merging stock exchanges, Canadian stocks are sold out and less tax revenue flows into Federal coffers. Or is it CRAP coughers?
http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/GAM.20070925.RTAQA25/GIStory/
Shadow Knows – what a juvenile statement to make about Elizabeth May – totally childish and pathetic – grow up.
Why would any Liberal be stupid enough to answer questions from LaPierre? You know he’s going to be on Mike Duffy regularly and Duffy’s whole purpose in life is to dig out dirt – whatever happened to real journalism at CTV?
Perhaps the Liberals should learn to not say anything to anyone other than themselves – they’re out to get you. Especially the Conservative TeleVision (CTV) network. I’ve lost respect for Duffy – he and Jane Taber have become a joke amongst friends of mine.
The whole MSM are a joke – we’re going to hear constant speculation about an election because they’re too chicken to deal with the real issues – especially pertaining to Harper.
Wave so-long!
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/260168
The enemy within….pure CRAP
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/
The Quebec scene heating up.
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=471131a4-e7ee-4852-9900-2fb9fcab2e0a&p=1
Ottawa signs on to rival emissions pact
After addressing a United Nations session aimed at reviving Kyoto, Harper says Canada will join the Asia-Pacific Partnership
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070925.wharper25/BNStory/National/home
This and Montebello are two reasons Harper wanted an election last year.
Check the poll out as well. The cons knew that over 70 percent of Canadians disagree with both. With a majority it would be easier to sell out the rest of Canada to the Americans.
That one gave me the giggles! Wasn’t long ago that a Liberal was hung out to dry for robbing kid’s piggy banks! So, what if your kids don’t want to be ‘liberals’? I taught my kids to think for themselves and I don’t even ask them about their political beliefs or religious leanings. If they chose to talk about such things, I respect their feelings at all times. L
Have a very happy day, I know I will.
By Leasa on 09.25.07 7:40 am
I can imagine they are hartdly influenced by you…like you asked me yesterday, I will pick one little segment out of your post and ask you, do you not think your children have been influenced by your obvious leaning to the right? I won’t ask you if they know when to put their coat on!
Sure let Mr. Harper allow an early election. I will send all the information concerning the PC sale of the Atomic Energy Board of Canada to General Electric TO CALL RUNNING CANDIDATES. THE PC are secretly discussing sale of Atomic Energy without making any of the details publict …..They have not Told Ontario residents that the condition is on the expansion of Nuclear Energy in Ontario that will double and triple taxes in Ontario…… I want an election…………….. So we can kick out Mr Harper and the the Cons who are gung ho about nuclear energy…and don’t give a rats ass about the environment. My these guys do a great job using taxpayer money to spread their PC propaganda
lets have an election. Mr. Harper and MR. Lunn are proposing the Sale of the Atomic Energy Board of Canada to GE and not making these discussions public. We they are not telling Canadians that the sale is condition of expansion of nuclear energy to Ontario. They along with Dalton McGuinty and John Tory are not telling fellow Ontario citizens that their taxes will double…This is suppose to be democracy?
I am very upset with my Federal and provincial MP and MPP who have not discussed of this except….when I saw the Article in the toroto Star…July 6, 2007 NUCLEAR SELLOFF IN WORKS..
I strongly suggest every person contact they representative to express for concerns for this dirty, expensive and environment unfriendly technology
SAY NO TO ATOMIC ENERGY
Dan, (09.25.07 7:49 am}
Under a Parliamentary system if you fix election dates totally it would be the final action in make our government an elected dictatorship or make it totally unworkable.
The only thing preventing that is the fact that Parliament can defeat the executive on a vote of non-confidence. If you introduced a system in which an executive could operate without the confidence (support) of Parliament then you would have an elected dictatorship.
In order to create a more reactive democracy under the U.S. system it was felt necessary to have congressional elections every two years. Under that system fixed election dates have not prevented constant electioneering. At least when we have a majority government for four years we get a bit of a rest.
I won’t ask you if they know when to put their coat on!
By pjw on 09.25.07 8:46 am
HA HA HA good one. Actually, my son is 16 and the last thing on his mind is politics. He sees my PC sign on the lawn and to him it’s just anther lawn ornament. My daughter is a teacher, and she sways on issues. She’s not fond of Mr. Tory’s idea of funding all religious schools because she’s afraid that it will mean more cutbacks in her classroom. So, I’m sure the young lady won’t be voting PC. We discuss issues and the ONLY advice I give is for her to make sure she reads all the policies from all parties and make up her own mind. Right now with my son, I focus on real life issues that are important to him, at 16 a parent must be a listener and not a preacher. He has good values and is a good person, that’s what I care about. I would never shove a political party membership on them and tell them they MUST feel the way I do on any issue.
Leasa
Eliabeth May is running where she is because she is from there and wants to live there. You can read her reasons at the GPoC website. Green Party of Canada
That is far better than the parachute candidates the other parties drop on our heads like Two Tier Tony Clement.
And for those unable to narrow in on Elizabeth’s reasons, here they are…straight and true.
Why Central Nova?
Ottawa signs on to rival emissions pact
After addressing a United Nations session aimed at reviving Kyoto, Harper says Canada will join the Asia-Pacific Partnership
By Keith Phibbs on 09.25.07 8:30 am
Oh, that’s just great. Signing into a partnership with the worst polluters and GHG emmitters of the world. Real leadership, Mr. Prime Minister, would be convince them to cut their emissions. But I suspect the reason is so that you won’t have to do anything, because they won’t.
Real leadership on the issue is Gov. Schwarzenegger. California’s population is larger than the whole of Canada’s, and the Gov. says, forget George W., we’re going to cut emissions.
That’s what we want, real leadership on the issue and real action, not just talk.
From the Washington Post today:
The Bush administration has conducted a concerted, behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to try to generate opposition to California’s request to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from cars and trucks, according to documents obtained by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
California, along with 11 other states, is hoping to enact rules that would cut global warming pollution from new motor vehicles by nearly 30 percent by 2016. To do so, California needs a waiver from the Environmental Protection Agency, a request that has been pending for nearly two years. California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) has threatened to sue if EPA does not rule on the waiver by Oct. 22.
This is who Harper is siding with? Now, people say Harper is smart – but really, what intelligent man would side with a lame duck lying president and an Australian PM that is going down the drain in the polls? I wouldn’t say it was very smart.
If new parties get in in the US and
Australia – the environment issue will take on a very different picture and would seem that Harper will be standing alone – dumb or what.
Watching the antics of World leaders I can only come to the conclusion that they have not yet evolved from the primate posturing stage. What puzzles me most is why the general population still swallows their guff – haven’t we had enough?
Leasa – you are “assuming” that PJW is thinking for his kids – maybe they told him they want to be Liberals – you don’t know.
My parents were the same about our own choices politically and religously – and that’s why I’m a Liberal – Liberals think for themselves and can think outside the box and I thank my parents for that.
I would never shove a political party membership on them…
Absolutely with you 100% on this one, Leasa.
I taught my children to be indepedent thinkers and ask questions. When they wanted to talk about issues, I always tried to present the argument from both sides, and also to let them know how I felt. Then, I encouraged them to come to their own conclusions.
We had many spirited discussions as they grew up. I don’t always agree with them, but I am proud that they are politically ‘aware’.
Started at a pretty early age. I think the oldest was in Grade 4 and came home from school one day and said he learned from his teacher that health care in Canada was free. I nearly hit the roof, and I will tell you that that was the first of many discussions…
GHG emissions are going DOWN. Simple, GM is on STRIKE and layoff. There is one solution.
You all have fun pronogsticating who will win the next election. Me, I am going out to actually work for the candidate of my choice. Make sure now and read your tea leaves, aka, polls.
Leasa: But did you drag your young kids along to church every Sunday morning?
I, too, do not push my kids towards any political persuasion. But I also did not take them to church, Sunday school or any other religious institution when they were young. If they aren’t old enough to decide on a political bent then they are not old enough to decide on whether they want to belong to a specific religious persuasion either.
By Leasa on 09.25.07 9:23 am
I didn’t think you would shove your ideas but we are who we are and we have opinions that get voiced in their presence, having said that, mine are 45, 41, 40 and 27, I think the days of influence are long gone if there ever was any…BUT….I do have 7 grandchildren!
Please, please don’t let there be an election! Let Harper continue to govern Canada right into the ground.
Harper wants an election to cover up his fraudulent tactics on election spending; his failed police action at Montebello which endangered peaceful Canadians; to take the heat off the missing Afghanistan detainees and possible Geneva Convention abuses; to deflect from Stockwell Day’s sneaking legislation to infringe the privacy rights of Canadians that he is working on as we speak; to deflect from his appointed MP scheme and the nekkid mayor fiasco; the tanking manufacturing sector; the no-deal softwood debacle; to deflect the international censure of his no-plan Environment policy; to stop questions of what he did at the SPP and why suddenly the Canadian and American dollar are at par: Amero anyone?
Let him stay and continue to try and govern the mess he’s made out of Canada.
Quebec strategy worked. You know the one – shovel billions into the province, give it its own seat on a prestigious United Nations body and declare the Quebec people a nation. Little stuff like that. The message is clear – why separate, when Mr. Harper is your favourite rich uncle?
They learned from masters of that strategy, garth – the federal Liberal Party. So, what’s new?
What’s new? The Liberals under stephane Dion passed the Clarity Act thwarting the separatist cause and preventing them from lying to Quebeckers about leaving Canada. The Conservatives under Stephen Harper have declared the Quebecois to be a nation. The consequences of this reckless vote-sucking act could be extreme for us all. — Garth
My parents were the same about our own choices politically and religously – and that’s why I’m a Liberal – Liberals think for themselves
Thanks for marginalizing me. I’m a Progressive Conservative, and geez, I thought I had some of those traits too. Live and learn, I guess…
W.P. said, “I am going to buy a Liberal membership for each of my four children.”
I’m pretty sure that is illegal, because it is making a donation in someone else’s name. Even giving them money with the expectation that they donate it is probably not allowed. You can give them money, but they must be free to donate it or not.
“I am going to buy a Liberal membership for each of my four children.I put forth a challange to other parents to do the same!”
We often hear people on this blog comment about people who want to force their beliefs upon others. I am surprized that there has not been more response to this comment.
When it comes to politics, I say, let the children make up their own minds. No parent has any business insisting on which party his children will belong to, or even if they should become a member of a political party. That is a personal decision.
If your children choose to vote differently than you do, so be it. Individual choice is too precious of a thing for parents to go meddling in when it comes to politics.
“passed the Clarity Act thwarting the separatist cause and preventing them from lying to Quebeckers about leaving Canada”.-Garth
Check your history Garth, who wrote the clarity act? Answer- Stephen Harper…Chretien thought he was nuts at the time…proving yet again who has the brains in this parliment…..(for those who don’t believe me, I suggest you read
Stephen Harper And The Future Of Canada
By William Johnson
The Liberals passed it. Stephane Dion led the way as intergovernmental minister. Stehen Harper was not in power. That’s fact. — Garth
Good overview of posts, nice to see the though process at work.
Garth WRT us Senior Bommers, would it be fair to both goverment and the tax man if we put the GST back to 7% and then remove the GST on food and clothing under $100, or better still leave it at 6%! With only my wife and I, we do like to eat out and kids love pizza’s and that stuff as they hate sitting around in fancy digs in their jeans! and even then they eat and run.
ya’all know thanks “Love ya Mum got to run call me!
As far as an election, your guess is good and may I had, should PMSH try and run goverment like he did during the last yawn, he may even turn off more people, he really can not bring the group together, in sports the coach is the first to go……hmmmm
Hey Garth,
During the liberal leadership race you said that one of the leadership candidates contacted you about joining them. Can you tell us who that was?
No. — Garth
What’s new? The Liberals under stephane Dion passed the Clarity Act thwarting the separatist cause and preventing them from lying to Quebeckers about leaving Canada. The Conservatives under Stephen Harper have declared the Quebecois to be a nation. The consequences of this reckless vote-sucking act could be extreme for us all. — Garth
By jt on 09.25.07 10:46 am
Actually Garth, that’s old news but since you’re bringing up old news, I will add one myself.
The Liberals were the ones who named the Bloc Quebecois the official opposition over the Reform party when they had 54 MPs over the Reform’s 52. They could have named the Reform Party the official opposition but chose to appease them and Quebec.
Leasa: But did you drag your young kids along to church every Sunday morning?
I, too, do not push my kids towards any political persuasion. But I also did not take them to church, Sunday school or any other religious institution when they were young. If they aren’t old enough to decide on a political bent then they are not old enough to decide on whether they want to belong to a specific religious persuasion either.
By Judy on 09.25.07 10:19 am
That’s strange. Milliions of children around the world learn about God way before they learn about politics. I didn’t know the two were synonymous.
“Le Devoir reports that the Liberal party is asking Elections Canada to speed up its investigation of the Conservative Party alleged funnelling of over $1 million in national advertising expenditures through at least 67 of their candidates campaigns, which were also signed off by their official agents, in order to have a final verdict on the matter before the next election. Of those 67 candidates, 17 were elected. They are also asking that the Chief Electoral Officer apply the sanctions outlined in the Canada Elections act against the 17 MPs”
Garth MP, Can anyone ask EC to place a firm deadline on the submission of documents on these 17 MP’s? Preferrably BEFORE the election.
Garth, If there is a November election, does that mean all Senate Committee work comes to a complete halt? That would be too bad, some committees have been working all summer.
What’s new? The Liberals under stephane Dion passed the Clarity Act thwarting the separatist cause and preventing them from lying to Quebeckers about leaving Canada. The Conservatives under Stephen Harper have declared the Quebecois to be a nation. The consequences of this reckless vote-sucking act could be extreme for us all. — Garth
Too bad for Dion that the “Clarity Act” was conceived by Stephen Harper and Preston Manning. And the wording of the actual act is virtually identicle to the draft penned by the Conservatives. But hey, at least the Liberals acted on a good idea. Even if it was a Conservative one. Yes Dion, please campaign on the greatness of the Conservative’s Clarity Act.
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2005/11/03/1290183.html
On the significance of Harper’s work in this area, Toronto Star columnist Chantal Hebert wrote: “If one were to trace the federal clarity law on Quebec secession back to its true origins, the exercise would lead straight to Stephen Harper. In the matter of his government’s main initiative on the unity front, Prime Minister Jean Chretien is merely a foster parent to Harper’s love child.”
Leasa – you are “assuming†that PJW is thinking for his kids – maybe they told him they want to be Liberals – you don’t know.
My parents were the same about our own choices politically and religously – and that’s why I’m a Liberal – Liberals think for themselves and can think outside the box and I thank my parents for that.
By slg on 09.25.07 9:55 am
Politics were discussed in our house, but not incessantly. Tho my Mom was a Lib, had campaigned with her Dad, and had been in every house along the eastern shore of NS as a young woman, there were occasions when she did not vote Lib and she and Dad would sometimes cancel each other’s vote. I’ve voted mostly Lib, and will in the next election, because I definitely do not want to see these theocons remain in power to destroy our institutions and replace our Canadian values with those of the US. I’ve already donated & taken out membership in the Lib Party (1st time ever) and will, no doubt, contribute more. Unfortunately, if the election occurs this fall I won’t be in a position to do much. Just learned yesterday I’ll likely have to do another round of chemo and likely radiation. No condolences please; I’ve so far almost beaten Stage IV to the amazement of my Drs.
“My parents were the same about our own choices politically and religously – and that’s why I’m a Liberal – Liberals think for themselves
Thanks for marginalizing me. I’m a Progressive Conservative, and geez, I thought I had some of those traits too. Live and learn, I guess…”
By Ed Brooks on 09.25.07 11:14 am
Ed – Think the key word is Progressive, which is not what PMSH and his ‘new guberment’ are!!
Shadow Knows – what a juvenile statement to make about Elizabeth May – totally childish and pathetic – grow up.
Why would any Liberal be stupid enough to answer questions from LaPierre? You know he’s going to be on Mike Duffy regularly and Duffy’s whole purpose in life is to dig out dirt – whatever happened to real journalism at CTV?
Perhaps the Liberals should learn to not say anything to anyone other than themselves – they’re out to get you. Especially the Conservative TeleVision (CTV) network. I’ve lost respect for Duffy – he and Jane Taber have become a joke amongst friends of mine.
The whole MSM are a joke – we’re going to hear constant speculation about an election because they’re too chicken to deal with the real issues – especially pertaining to Harper.
By slg on 09.25.07 8:16 am
slg…Conspiracy, conspiracy. Now who do you think would give a “tinkers damn” whether you and your friends think Duffy and Taber are a joke. You are the one that’s the joke and needs to grow up, actually you are the joke. No body loves you eh? Oh my, what a shame. Poor slg. I was going to try to have a sensible dialogue with you but then decided that wouldn’t be possible after reading several of your posts. If you want to see how childish you are then reread some of those idiotic posts of yours. Your problem is that you have been hanging around lieberals to long. Hang out with some true friends for a change and not those that see a conspiracy around every corner. Have a good day, I sure am.
The Liberals were the ones who named the Bloc Quebecois the official opposition over the Reform party when they had 54 MPs over the Reform’s 52. They could have named the Reform Party the official opposition but chose to appease them and Quebec.
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.25.07 12:21 pm
Just as the party with the most seats is given the opportunity to form the government, even if they do not have a majority, then surely the party with the next largest seat count would be the official opposition, whether their seats come from across Canada (West of Ontario) or from one province (Quebec)!
Its all a matter of who has most seats.
And 54 is more than 52!
More evidence that the Harper Party is desperate for an election in order to bury their fraudulent ways.
From Le Devoir and Vues’dici today:
“… The Canada Elections Act stipulates that if an MP is found to have violated the Elections Act in any way, the Chief Electoral Officer has the power to deny that MP the right to sit and vote in the House of Commons. Liberal spokesperson Dominique LeBlanc is quoted saying that the 17 elected Conservative MPs implicated in the advertising scheme shouldn’t be allowed to vote on the Throne Speech.
Elections Canada has confirmed that warnings have been sent to the 67 implicated candidates but did not say if a deadline for submitting the required documentation had been issued to the 17 MPs.
In 2005, Liberal cabinet minister John Godfrey had failed to submit certain election expenses-related documents to Elections Canada, was issued an ultimatum by Elections Canada which would have prevented him from voting for the Liberal minority government’s budget. Godfrey had to scramble to submit the required documents in order to retain his right to sit in the House.
If Harper were to find himself 17 MPs short for the Speech from the Throne, the Conservatives would be reduced to 109 MPs, and not even support of the NDP would be enough to avoid defeat.
Nine of the 17 implicated MPs are from Quebec and include cabinet ministers Maxime Bernier, Lawrence Cannon and Josée Verner.”
Don’t give Harper the election he and his cronies crave!
“Unfortunately, if the election occurs this fall I won’t be in a position to do much. Just learned yesterday I’ll likely have to do another round of chemo and likely radiation. No condolences please; I’ve so far almost beaten Stage IV to the amazement of my Drs.”
By Ed Brooks
No condolences Ed but congratulations, my wife and I and our family will keep you in our prayers….hang in there!!!
Ed: I, too, am vitally interested in your health. You have been an astute and insightful observer of politics, and a worthwhile, constructive critic of mine. Your contribution has been immense. We need Canadians like you. Our thoughts are with you and your family. — Garth
Leasa – you are “assuming†that PJW is thinking for his kids – maybe they told him they want to be Liberals – you don’t know.
My parents were the same about our own choices politically and religously – and that’s why I’m a Liberal – Liberals think for themselves and can think outside the box and I thank my parents for that.
By slg on 09.25.07 9:55 am
To be honest slg, I have no idea how my four kids vote…I suspect my youngest voted Conservative the last time because she still lives at home and we do from time to time discuss such things at the dinner table, but the three oldest, I have no idea, we are to busy with grandchildren there to have any chance of discussing politics which suits me fine…I love them, they are precious!
That’s strange. Milliions of children around the world learn about God way before they learn about politics. I didn’t know the two were synonymous.
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.25.07 12:23 pm
Wake up and smell the coffee!
Why do you think we have the problems we have today. For many countries God, or their interpretation of God, and politics are past synonomous, they are one and the same.
That would also include the good old USA. Yes, God bless America, they need it!
Personally, put God back in the schools in all shape, forms and names. Let kids learn about ALL religions.
I’m Catholic, and my kids recieved a modified Catholic education as we homeschooled through grade 6. We also included a introduction into other faiths. No blinkers, no slant, no saying any was better/worse than any other. Along with the Bible we have copies of the other religious holy books.
What I don’t have is the right to impose my beliefs on anyone, including my kids. What I do have is the right to tell them what I believe and allow them to make their own decisions at the appropriate time.
That’s strange. Milliions of children around the world learn about God way before they learn about politics. I didn’t know the two were synonymous.
By Sean P. Hogan on 09.25.07 12:23 pm
They aren’t, that’s why faith based schools are a very bad idea!
at 16 a parent must be a listener and not a preacher.
Leasa, we may not agree on very many things but as the parent of a 16-year-old and a 14-year-old, this is something I do agree with. And listening is probably the hardest thing a parent can ever do.
Wp it is illegal to buy memberships for somebody else are you going to forge their signature as well? Btw what riding are you in?
Re:The Shadow
Thy very name speaks of conspiracy…unknown, out of sight , apt to disappear when exposed to light.
Conservatives meet and the conversation turns to how to shaft the Liberals and con the voter. Do they ever talk about what is good for Canada? That so many Canadians sucumb to the Con job is nothing short of amazing. I, for one, don’t like their actions regarding Quebec, their treatment of IT’s,their budget, their neocon leanings and their vision for the country if they have one. They have dug Canada into a hole and if they keep digging we may not get out of it “Whole.”
Garth wrote.
>The Liberals under stephane Dion passed >the Clarity Act thwarting the separatist >cause and preventing them from lying to >Quebeckers about leaving Canada.
Gath you do try and manipulate history don’t you. For one thing Dion was never PM and may never vbe for that matter. He may have helped write the bill but the truth is that the Clarity Act was passed by the Liberals under Chretien and not Dion.
Dion was intergovernmental minister, recruited by Chertien for exactly this task. Stop being an idiot. — Garth
Watching the antics of World leaders I can only come to the conclusion that they have not yet evolved from the primate posturing stage. What puzzles me most is why the general population still swallows their guff – haven’t we had enough?
By Pecked to death by ducks on 09.25.07 9:51 am
Right on PTDBD. I agree with you 100%. Maybe time for a little humor % something to ponder? Maybe a politician needs a wake up call. It goes like this ….
A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant operated by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu:
Tourist: $5
Broiled Missionary: $10.00
Fried Explorer: $15.00
Baked Democrat or Grilled Republican: $100.00
The cannibal called the waiter over and asked, Why such a price difference for the Politician?
The cook replied, “Have you ever tried to clean one? They’re so full of shit, it takes all morning.”
Have a good day, Irene
In response to some of the comments:
1. To those who say Elizabeth May has lost the support of her party, I think that is most untrue; as far as I can see, the Libs are closer to falling apart than the Greens, and neither are yet about to happen; plus, she’s good where she is and I look forward to seeing her results on election day.
2. Whoever suggested that gas taxes should be reduced seems short-sighted; both Libs and Cons seemed to agree at some point that savings would a) not be passed on to consumers and b) even if they did, would get lost in the 4-times-per-day changes in gas prices (in Ontario, at least). Also remember that when cattle prices were very low a few years ago, meat prices in the grocery store stayed high. I even dare suggest increasing the gas taxes instead, and reducing our income taxes so we can choose how much taxes we pay by our bad habits.
3. I also noticed talk about the Atomic Energy thing … all I will do is paraphrase more green stuff: with the amount that will be put into nuclear energy in Ontario over the next decade were, every single dwelling could be fitted with solar panels and wind turbines to the point that everyone could be off-grid… imagine that, getting clean energy for free! plus the province not having to maintain any of its power plants open, coal, gas, or otherwise. If the sale of the AEBC is going to raise the price of nuclear, then let’s make sure that price doesn’t affect us at all!
To SLG:
Give up on The Shadow. He just likes to spout.
As for Duffy and Taber, the questions they ask aren’t that deep. Duffy always looks like he’s had a wiff of laughing gas, and the whole of the CTV team, including Mr. Oliver are obviously of the Tory persuasion.
I’ve switched to the CBC. If many more do, they’d better watch out as the PM might cut their funding for telling it as it is!
Hi IKE, On.,
Mr Garth TurnerMP doesn’t need a knife because he has a pen/blog. A mind that can critically think for it’s self. A mind that knows how to lisen, and seems to care about the common good.
Hi Rob. Wiebe,
PMSH and his GANG is NOT a CPC, he is a ‘Bush’ Neo-con, new world order guy.
Hopefully soon, this PMSH and his gang of wantabe USA, G.I.G.’s will fall!
Than we’ll get to see the hole liberal
Dion plantform and get to make a choise.
Hi Josie Erent,
I’m for Global heating gas free, reliable, safe, CANDU electricity. See.
http://www.aecl.ca/
http://www.cna.ca/
I’m NOT for selling of AECL to the American Corporations.
We the Canadian Taxpayers have helped develope this world class technology and now that it is needed to meet our energy requirements. As well as meeting our obligations to stop global heating in time. There’s also peak-oil now!
The USA now wants AECL because they can make a buck fast.
They didn’t plan long term. (We’ve all been told for a long time that global heating is happening and peak-oil will be here.)
They didn’t plan long term and are now without a nuclear industry capable of building new electrical gereration plants, just as we are running out of oil.
We could and should help them by selling CANDU plants. We shouldn’t sell them the company that we have all invested in with our taxes.
We need to keep control so we can rep the benifits of our good long term planing for the good of all Canadians.
Keep the good technical jobs hear.
Greenpeases report, June 2007 on tritium was wrong and just fear tackic! For a recently released reveiw of tritium see.
http://cna.ca/english/index2.asp
The several latest CANDU plants built
around the world
were on time and under budget!
They have a 83% efficance, the best in the world. Power is only about 0.09 cents per KWH. There is a safe long term storage plan that is only waiting for political approvel.
The Germans have put up about 1 power plant worth of wind power, about 9,000 MgWs, but the wind is only blowing 9% of the time.
I think I’m going to vote Ontario PC this time. Yes, the greens and NDP have some good ideas about conservation and improving energy efficance as do the Ontario PC. Environmental protection
of air,water,land to grow food is also a must.
Ontario gets 54% of it’s electrical power form CANDU nuclear now. It’s safe.
If the lights/power doesn’t stay on do you think the good paying jobs with come to and stay in Onatrio.
How will people be able to afford to pay for the energy efficant improvements if they can’t find good paying work?
The Ontario Liberal burning garbage to make electricality is a bad idea.
It shown a lack of understanding and poor long term planing.
When stuff burns you get more ‘very’ toxic stuff and release of nano particals of the toxic stuff into the air we all breath, even if the state of the air filters are working properly all the time?
The PCB that form, reform in the cooling exaust fumes.
You make more green house gasses also.
You can safe 4x as much energy by better recycling the waste that burning it to make electricity. taking into account the extraction and energy of raw materials.
Putting toxic ass into bricks does not make it less toxic. Burning stuff, make very toxic stuff.
See, Energy form waste-the myth debunked
part 1-3, by Dr.Pual Connett, Toxicologist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB5iOtxlpCs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNLQ359ex-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbkVIjR59M&mode=related&search=
site for Global Ant-incinerator alliance.
http://www.no-burn.org/
What kind of energy depleted, polluted world are we making for ourselfs and for future human beings???
Remeber everything we use comes from the ground and takes some kind of energy source to change it into usefull stuff.
We have choises to make about the impacked and the byproducts that this leaves us with. Weather its safty stored or spread all over, up smake stacks, down rivers, into lakes, into ground water and up wells and out springs.
(Dulution is not the solution).
Hi Peaked to death by Ducks,on.,
It seems that the co-called world leaders are allowed to run for office, by the men behind the curtain, only if they are good at reading prepard speaches. They don’t want them to be to smart or good critical thinkers.
(Bush and PMSH come to mind).
They probable were given fluoridated water as infants to reduce there IQ.
see. http://www.fluoridealert.org/
Bush knows about peak-oil, that’s way he has geotherma heating and a/c at his Texes home.
Hi SLG,on.,
Why are the large auto and oil corporations, military corporation,
allowed to lobby government with there deep money pockets?
It’s not leading to the common good.
Just maximizing the corporations short term profit. Screw the future.
Artical about challenging corporate power.
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/61737/
Artical on human health effects of climate change.
http://www.geologytimes.com/research/Scientists_to_forecast_and_respond_to_human_health_effects_of_climate_change.asp
If Canada cut it emission to zero there would not be any noticeable difference in the overall emmsions as our total share is just 2%. However if the four major countries polluters US, China,India and Russia were to do the same we would not be having the problem we have today. So to join the Asian group to try and cut the pollution of the biggest 4 in a cooperative manner is a great idea.
It has been proven time and time again that far more can be achieved from with in then from with out. So Canada joining the Asia Pacific Partnership is a very smart thing to do and hopefully this partnership will result in considerable cut in emissions to the environment. Sorry but Kyoto just isn’t cutting the mustard when it comes to the 4 biggest polluters.
Garth, Whether we have an election this fall is entirely in the opposition’s hands. No one opposition party has the power to do it themselves. In fact it will have to take all three. So all I can say is if the Liberals feel they can defeat the Liberals in an elections then make a pact with the other two parties let them fill their boots.
I as a conservative supporter say bring it on and lets settle this thing at the polling booth once and for all. When the dust settles either Dion or Harper will be gone very shortly after.My bet is that it will be Dion that will be toast.
Much as he has tried, Dion just doesn’t seem to have connect with the voters which reminds me very much of Stanfield who some feel was the best PM that never was. Personally I wouldn’t say that about Dion.
Hi Van,On.,
I hope everbody gets on board to stop global heating. Because if the level of greenghouse gasses isn’t kept form getting higher and brought back down we’ll all be fried.
I don’t think PMSH really gets it!
Garth wrote
lost Outremont.
This was a significant loss for Dion and the Liberals. Anyone who thinks differently has their head in the sand.
Frenchy
http://www.novascotialife.com/?q=node/198
Good for Liz, not to pick a safe seat, but try to unseat that stuffed prig, Peter MacKay.
The best of British to her in the attempt! She’s an interesting woman who does not shrink from challenge. I hope Elizabeth May does unseat that pompous baffoon!
This makes me wonder if Harper and his cons wrote this weeks speech by Karzai begging us to stay.
So this week so far, election scandal, joining the anti-kyoto group, and now we find out they have been misleading Canadians again on the war.
Canada wrote Afghan leader’s speech, NDP says.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/260315
Garth wrote
lost Outremont.
This was a significant loss for Dion and the Liberals. Anyone who thinks differently has their head in the sand.
By Van on 09.25.07 2:11 pm
Maybe. But what it does tell the Libs is that they can’t parachute in a candidate, be quiet on the hustings and expect to win against a candidate that is well known within the riding.
On GHG’s, I will agree that working within a group for change is better than from the outside, assuming that change is what you’re after. I’m still not convinced that PMSH is onboard with the need to to cut GHG’s and therefore I can’t see anything good coming out of this association with the worst contributors except that he’ll be able to say they could reach an effective agreement to cut GHG’s and therefore it would not be in Canada’s economic interest to unilaterally cut our GHG emissions.
I hope I’m wrong but PMSH doesn’t give me confidence on his handling of the environment.
By Van on 09.25.07 1:59 pm
I think you could be right about Dion not connecting, and then we have Harper, who has displayed despicable behaviour, and rates very low as a human being. So some choice for the voter. However, it is time for a monumental change in Canada, maybe voting for the best man/woman in your district as defined by their commitment to represent their constituents first and party second, that would be a novel idea!
I hope everbody gets on board to stop global heating.
I don’t think PMSH really gets it!
By Greg W., Oakville on 09.25.07 2:08 pm
There have been some significant developments. Canada has been placed on 1 of 4 UN committees on climate change. Duffy was too busy covering the federal election campaign to get it on his show.
Maybe today, wait for it before you get too fried.
No point in discussing any other issues till the election is over. Then we`ll get about 24 hrs to raise our voices before the next election starts.
Atlantic Discord swelling.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070925/casey_accord_070925/20070925?hub=Politics
Van,
You say Canada contributes 3% of global CO2 and reductions would be useless as if it were the country in the world which had signed on to Kyoto. Thing is, we weren’t, and if the US had been on board, it would’ve seemed as if the whole world was on board, as all the OECD nations standing together would be giving a good example to India and China was going to be the first step in convincing them to follow suit. Unfortunately, Bush and his lapdog Harper had other ideas.
Break the hold of the out-of-touch political party class. Vote Green, Independent or for one of those rare people having the courage to speak their mind.
Unfortunately I live about 100m from the wrong side of the border of Garth’s riding.
I have been reading Noam Chomsky’s Failed States… Very depressing and more disconcerting when I hear of Mr. Harper cuddling up to Mr. Bush and his policies at recent conferences. He is far too intelligent to be doing it innocently so I operate on the presumption that he is or wants to be a co-conspirator.
At the risk of repeating myself: Vote independent.
By pjw on 09.25.07 1:05 pm
By KPN on 09.25.07 12:27 pm
Hold the Presses!!!
That’s not me. KPN has done a hack job of a cut and paste in a post of his.
My comments start with: Thanks for marginalizing…
I’ve been working out 3 times a week at the gym for the past year. I have never been healthier in my life.
Thanks for the kind, thoughts, but pass them to the one who really made the comment, although from kpn’s post, I’m not sure who that was.
And to think all those supportive words were wasted….
— Garth
Breaking News,
The word is that DND wrote the speach the President of Afghanistan read word for word to Canadains from Ottawa.
Please tell me it ain’t so?
If not Peter MacKay (who no one believes) and PMSH must go…sorry our elected CPC members lying is one thing but to have an outside sitting PM forced to lie for money is another kettle of fish……
Thanks for marginalizing me. I’m a Progressive Conservative, and geez, I thought I had some of those traits too. Live and learn, I guess…
By Ed Brooks on 09.25.07 11:14 am
There are many people who do not realize that a Progressive Conservative is quite different from a Harper Conservative. In fact, Harper is not a conservative but radical right wing: he has promised to radically change Canada. The problem is that there are liberals who are also on, or close to, the radical right (such as the B.C. Liberal Party). It confuses people because they don’t understand the difference.
A Progressive Conservative in Nova Scotia or Newfoundland would be quite different from a Harris PC in Ontario or a Klein PC in Alberta. In other cases, Liberals are often more right wing than PCs such as the McKenna government in New Brunswick.
Progressive Conservatives tend to look for “progressive” options rather than right or left wing options. The result that it is hard to pin down whether we are left or right in our thinking.
The problem we have to face is that we are marginalized in federal politics today and as such have no real voice.
Looking back over the posts, it may be KPN that needs the kind thoughts and best wishes.
KPN, perhaps in future, one response/topic per posting, eh?
LIZ..09.25.07 10:19am.& 1.03Pm.
” Let Harper continue to govern Canada right into the ground”
Liz, Do you care so little about this country called Canada, that you would desire Harper to continue?
You either don’t believe your own statements re: the state of affairs, or you really don’t care about Canada. It is a sad example! Please don’t give up on this great nation of ours..
Hey Van,
Based on 2004 data (http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/104/24/10288/T1)
Canada
Produces: 2% (according to you).
Population? 0.5%.
China
Produces: 17%
Population: 20%
India
Produces: 4%
population: 17%
So we are actually among the worst (if not the worst) per capita producers of GHGs. China and India are doing better than us, and they are actually producing goods and services, while most of ours come from resources. China is experiencing the most growth, but it still has to produce 4 times as much to come close to what we are producing.
Ironic, don’t you think? If not quite pathetic.
Austin
And to think all those supportive words were wasted…. — Garth
By Ed Brooks on 09.25.07 3:25 pm
Well we will Ed, but I have to agree with Garth, you are one of the most balanced posters on this site.
And if it is KPN, we will pray for him.
I don’t care what party he supports!
A few New Rules to consider from George Carlin. We need some humour here today I think!
One Favourite:
New Rule: No more gift registries. You know, it used to be just for weddings. Now it’s for babies and new homes and graduations from rehab. Picking out the stuff you want and having other people buy it for you isn’t gift giving, it’s the white people version of looting.
New Rule: Stop giving me that pop-up ad for classmates.com! There’s a reason you don’t talk to people for 25 years. Because you don’t particularly like them! Besides, I already know what the captain of the football team is doing these days — mowing my lawn.
New Rule: Don’t eat anything that’s served to you out of a window unless you’re a seagull. People are acting all shocked that a human finger was found in a bowl of Wendy’s chili. Hey, it cost less than a dollar. What did you expect it to contain? Lobster?
New Rule: If you need to shave and you still collect baseball cards, you’re a dope. If you’re a kid, the cards are keep sakes of your idols. If you’re a grown man, they’re pictures of men.
New Rule: Ladies, leave your eyebrows alone. Here’s how much men care about your eyebrows: Do you have two of them? Good, we’re done.
New Rule: There’s no such thing as flavoured water. There’s a whole aisle of this crap at the supermarket, water, but, without that watery taste. Sorry, but flavoured water is called a soft drink. You want flavoured water? Pour some scotch over ice and let it melt. That’s your flavoured water.
New Rule: Stop screwing with old people. Target is introducing a redesigned pill bottle that’s square, with a bigger label. And the top is now the bottom. And by the time grandpa figures out how to open it, his ass will be in the morgue. Congratulations, Target, you just solved the Social Security crisis.
New Rule: The more complicated the Starbucks order, the bigger the asshole. If you walk into a Starbucks and order a ‘decaf grandee, half-soy, half-low fat, iced vanilla, double-shot, gingerbread cappuccino, extra dry, light ice, with one Sweet-n’-Low, and One NutraSweet,’ ooooh, you’re a huge a*shole.
New Rule: I’m not the cashier! By the time I look up from sliding my card, entering My PIN, pressing ‘Enter,’ verifying the amount, deciding, no, I don’t want Cash back, and pressing ‘Enter’ again, the kid who is supposed to be ringing me up is standing there eating my Almond Joy.
New Rule: Just because your tattoo has Chinese characters in it doesn’t make you Spiritual. It’s right above the crack of your ass. And it translates to ‘beef with broccoli.’ The last time you did anything spiritual, you were praying to God you weren’t pregnant. You’re not spiritual. You’re just high.
New Rule: Competitive eating isn’t a sport. It’s one of the seven deadly sins. ESPN Recently televised the U.S. Open of Competitive Eating, because watching those athletes at the poker table was just too damned exciting. What’s next, competitive farting?’
New Rule: I don’t need a bigger mega M&Ms. If I’m extra hungry for M&Ms, I’ll go nuts and eat two.
New Rule: If you’re going to insist on making movies based on crappy old television shows, then you have to give everyone in the Cineplex a remote so we can see what’s playing on the other screens. Let’s remember the reason something was a television show in the first place is that the idea wasn’t good enough to be a movie.
My favorite: LMAO!
New Rule: If you ever hope to be a credible adult and want a job that pays better than Minimum wage, then for God’s sake don’t pierce or tattoo every available piece of flesh. If so, then plan your future around saying, ‘Do you want fries with that?’
Right now with my son, I focus on real life issues that are important to him, at 16 a parent must be a listener and not a preacher. . . .
By Leasa on 09.25.07 9:23 am
Spot on, Leasa. That’s a really good perspective on raising children.
Listen attentively, disagree, but never should parents try to control or manipulate their children to fulfill their own selfish wishes.
A really good film to see is Dead Poet’s Society, c. 1988 (Robin Williams). Classic example of what happens when parents try to exert their own influence over their son, put him under more and more pressure to have a well-respected life, then the son has enough and kills himself.
The parents won’t accept responsibility for their son’s suicide, because it would mean that they caused it (which they did).
The son wanted to be an artist, but the parents wanted him to be a doctor or something similar.
No one wins when control is involved.
I agree that an election will be hard to avoid and understand that Harper is taking over the lease on the John Tory Campaign buses so they will be ready to roll as the Majority or Bust express. This is not a good time to back down as it is obvious that the Speech from the Throne will be a provocative taunt to the Liberal leadership and to react in fear is no better than giving Steve Harper a blank cheque to run Canada as if he had a majority (just like his friend W. Bush is keeping the war going despite the opposition majority in Congress). The NDP is in a state of overconfidence now and the BQ does not want to back down and look like they just want to preserve the seats they hold. The Liberal opposition must show leadership now and put forward a united team. Hopefully Elizabeth May will be a willing passenger and work on a co-ordinated basis to get Liberals the Green vote in key ridings. Good luck Garth!
Looking back over the posts, it may be KPN that needs the kind thoughts and best wishes.
KPN, perhaps in future, one response/topic per posting, eh?
By Ed Brooks on 09.25.07 4:01 pm
Sorry Ed. Thought I got my quotes correct but obviously I didn’t. Lots of posters respond to multiple posts which are not always easy to differentiate.
BTW, I’m female – 60 next month & hopefully will be able to benefit from many CPP payments. Have paid into it since its inception & think I deserve them.
KPN
Hi Garth,
In response to the Liberal Policy Revealed blog, here’s how I think the Conservative policies were developed. You were there…does this sound about right?
PMS: Ok boys (and, oh yeah, you too, Belinda) here’s what we’ll do… Let’s cancel all of the fluff that the Liberals brought out and rationalize under it something, like…”fiscal responsibility”. Then, a few months down the road, let’s repackage them under our own brand, but, and here’s the good part, don’t provide any money. We can do this for a long time and get free sound bites without having to do much of anything.
Now, let me see, what else? Well, subsidized child care has to go so, instead, let’s try this. I’ll announce that we will provide money directly to parents under the guise of providing “choiceâ€. But here’s the good part. I’ll only provide it to a small portion of the population, parents with children under 7 years of age, and I’ll make the amount so small it won’t even cover a fraction of the actual cost. Oh, Oh…and I’ll make it taxable too.
What else…well, I know we kinda promised not to tax income trusts but I just know there’s a way to blame the Liberals for this too. And I know the environment is one of those socialist issues that’s getting lots of media so maybe we can ride its coattails for awhile. Oh yeah, and we can also blame it on the Liberals…after all, Stephane just came out with a package and it’s not even implemented yet, so nobody evens knows about it. We can also announce our own legislation….let’s see… We can call it the Clean Air Act. It doesn’t have to do anything but I just know we can fill it full of hot air and, once we send it on its way, the media and the Liberals will be watching it so closely, we should be able to slip something else by them.
Oh, this is too rich…I wish I had thought of this years ago…
(By the way, Stephen, perhaps you should share whatever it was that you were smoking in that room. Then, maybe your Con job wouldn’t be so tough.)
On a separate issue, I just caught PMSH talking about democracy and how the western understanding isn’t the same as how those we try to impose it on understand it.
The gist was that the winners of “democratic” elections in these countries see them as a one off, giving the party that wins a carte blanche mandate to “destroy” the opposition and become dictators.
He actually made sense.
Look at Musharraf in Pakistan. I’ll quit the military if I win the election. Small print, if I loose the election I’ll still control the military and nullify the election. (and those that win will be charged with corruption!)
Question then is why does PMSH side with George W. when he hasn’t got a cat in hells chance of bringing western democracy to the world unless attitudes and understanding in those countries change?
Shows that people actually do get along quite well, despite MSM (deceiving) reports to the opposite!
http://www.president.ir/en/
Some bloggers may have read this, others not, but another rumour bites the dust.
http://antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025
BTW, I’m female – 60 next month & hopefully will be able to benefit from many CPP payments. Have paid into it since its inception & think I deserve them.
KPN
By KPN on 09.25.07 5:27 pm
As my brother always says ” I want to live long enough to bleed the CPP dry”, our prayer will be that you do the same..Good luck KPN…
Bill-Chatham – the Shadow made me laugh with his stupid comments – like he’s scaring me or something?
They have had it this fall yet, but I do like to watch the CPAC interview/political shows – they try their best to be non-partisan.
About an election – if Harper didn’t want an election why would he delay parliament and do a speech from the throne (which is a confidence matter). He wants an election but doesn’t want to be blamed for it. He talks about the cost of another election so soon – duh – he was willing to go in the spring until the polls didn’t show what he wanted and that wouldn’t have been free either. This Harper is so easy to read and he’s such a phony.
This could make things very interesting — and nasty — in the world.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/II22Ag01.html
Sorry Ed. Thought I got my quotes correct but obviously I didn’t.
No big deal KPN! At least I got to feel the love for a few minutes, even if it was undeserved.
Best wishes…
Austin,
And in your analysis lies the flaw. You are trying to compare apples to oranges:
a. Canada being near the top of the most sparsely populated countries in the world, being a net exporter to the world for energy, wheat, and even manufactured goods. You want to do it on a per capita basis, then be prepared for the reduction in economic activity;
b. Canada is one of the coldest countries in the world (thus more fuel is expended to keep us warm for 1/2 the year (and for some us cool for the other half);
c. the distances between our population centers is so large (Canada being the 2nd biggest country in the world) that our transportation needs are much higher/greater on a per capita basis than other larger countries (population) where mass transit is economical (Via Rail in the west is no where near being economic compared to driving or flying).
So when talking about these types of comparisons it isn’t so simple to compare populations.
Ed the Hun
“(By the way, Stephen, perhaps you should share whatever it was that you were smoking in that room. Then, maybe your Con job wouldn’t be so tough.)”
By Brad Carroll on 09.25.07 5:33 pm
Maybe you should smoke your own Brad instead of being a begger for it. Can’t somebody smoke something without being hit up by bums like you?
Garth – woke up early this am & thought I saw a preview of either Rick Mercer or This Hour Has 22 Minutes’ forthcoming shows this fall and saw you on it. Can your confirm, or was I dreaming
KPN
Saw it, too. Welcome to my nightmare. — Garth
Bill-Chatham – the Shadow made me laugh with his stupid comments – like he’s scaring me or something?
By slg on 09.25.07 6:32 pm
That would be Bill-Muskoka, born in the good old USA I think, and James – Chatham born in good old Blighty.
Glad to see you’re getting a laugh out of the Shadow.
Couldn’t agree more about the election and PMSH plotting the downfall of his throne speech!
Saw it, too. Welcome to my nightmare. — Garth
By KPN on 09.25.07 7:24 pm
HILARIOUS! You were great!
The Peter McKay segment was a real ‘Dog’, however. LMAO!
It was THH22M BTW
As my brother always says †I want to live long enough to bleed the CPP dryâ€, our prayer will be that you do the same..Good luck KPN…
By pjw on 09.25.07 6:18 pm
Thanks PJW. I don’t want to bleed the CPP dry – au contraire. Tho we don’t have any children, we do have nieces and nephews and I think of their futures as well as all of their generation.
By James- Chatham on 09.25.07 7:30 pm
Did The One in The Dark say something? I must have ignored it!
Leasa:
…at 16 a parent must be a listener and not a preacher.
Whoops, try that again:
Leasa:
…at 16 a parent must be a listener and not a preacher.
Well, call me old-fashioned, but I think 16 is too young to be a parent.
Garth on Rick Mercer? Hey, Garth, did ya get naked? Leasa
You wish. — Garth
Well, call me old-fashioned, but I think 16 is too young to be a parent.
By EhBC on 09.25.07 8:17 pm
Eh? She meant her child is 16, not her.
Harper admitted today he expects a ‘minority’ government. I am sure all Canadians will help fullfill his expectations. Perhaps relieve him of even that, and create a minority Liberal government. People are PISSED!
By Leasa on 09.25.07 8:33 pm
Please tell us you are not still looking for an orgy? LMAO!
Have a good night!
A few days late but here is the 3rd installment of *Lies, Obfuscations, Deceits and Misdirections*
Dedicated to Leasa
I just think you are too quick to call the Prime Minister of Canada a liar.
Besides, it’s not nice. L
Well, Mr. Harper is not so nice, but he is deceitful, shameless, unaccountable, and too willing to follow an American agenda without any input from the Canadian people. “Sad” is how he he referred to his own citizens to Mr. Bush. And he never calls us citizens. We are always “taxpayers” or “consumers”. Why is that?
23. The Quebec Nation Motion:
The French version of the motion referred to all Quebecers, while the English version referred only to French-speaking Quebecers. The word “Quebecois,” when used in English, refers to Francophones only, as a quick look at the dictionary can confirm.
Thus the English version of the motion refers to an ethnic concept of the nation, while the French version refers to a civic nation, inclusive of all Quebecers. This has led to conflicting interpretations of the motion in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada.
Simply put, the nation motion allowed Stephen Harper’s Conservative government to escape a political trap by sending one message to English Canada and another to Quebec. (Pierre Martin, TO Star 080107)
24. Canada’s new No-Fly List
25. Frank Luntz, George W. Bush’s strategic advisor has offered advice to the Canadian Right since Reform Party days and came to Ottawa in May 2006, to work with the Harper Conservatives sponsored by the right-wing Civitas Society.
25. Museum Assistance Program was canned.
26. The Environment (Sept.21 2007) The National Roundtable on the Environment and Economy’s report issued on September 21 accuses the Conservative government of using “systematic†exaggeration, “double accountingâ€, “not accurately reflecting†emissions reductions, “important inconsistency†and “overestimated†reductions to produce false conclusions about the effects of its plan. (reported by The Canadian Press). In typical fashion the government released the report on a Friday, hoping that no one would notice.
27. The Free Vote Affair (Bill Casey MP) Peter MacKay said “We will not throw a member out of caucus for voting his conscience. There will be no whipping, flipping, hiring or firing on budget votes as we saw with the Liberal government.†Except they did throw Mr. Casey out, within minutes no less.
28. Health Care Waiting Lists
29. Accountability in Government
30. The selling of Canadian Assets, (then leasing them back) with no discussion in the House, on input from the public. The unaccountable unelected Public Works minister Michael Fortier refused to cooperate with any and all inquiries.
31. The (original) Afghanistan Detainee Fiasco
32. North American Energy Security Initiative, (from the web site)
A secure and sustainable energy supply is essential for our economic prosperity in North America. To advance our energy agenda we have agreed to:
â–ª Enhance the development of a diverse energy resource base in North America by increasing collaboration on research, development and commercialization of clean energy-related technologies, and
â–ª Strengthen the North American energy market by improving transparency and regulatory compatibility, promoting the development of resources and infrastructure, increasing cooperation on energy efficiency standards, and supporting other efforts aimed at addressing challenges on the demand side.
â–ª The United States and Canada signed an agreement, which is a a milestone in pipeline regulatory cooperation, to allow increased compliance data sharing, staff exchanges and joint training. The sharing of best practices will lead to a more uniform regulatory approach for cross border pipelines.
33. “Value for moneyâ€, $17 million removed from literacy, youth employment, skills development and more. “… just learned yesterday the whole surplus of $13.2 billion has gone against the debt. Now, nobody is opposed to paying down the debt, but at the expense of what?” Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North, NDP) Standing Committee on Finance Sept 26 2006
more to come soon
Geo
sigh, bold messed up,
Was supposed to read, (from the US SPP web site)
sorry
Geo
Two posts, both quite interesting.
The first concerns some Jewish people and evangelicals, who seem to be scrapping amongst themselves.
http://rense.com/general78/silent.htm
The second theorizes on parallel universes (am I really a multitude?!).
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=paUniverse_sun14_parallel_universes&show_article=1&cat=0
Ed Brooks, get well.
My greatest fear is the Liberals, NDP and Green Party will split the vote in many ridings enabling the CONs to claim the seat with very little popular vote.
Will we see a repeat of the PC and Reform party splitting of the vote that enabled the Liberals to so easily win for years, only this time on the left?
By Colin Mudle on 09.25.07 6:55 am
…and thats exactly why we need an electoral reform, i.e. vote for MMP here in Ontario on Oct. 10th!!
It cannot be that we give away direct mandates with as little as 20% while 80% of the writing did not want to give the seat to that very person, but didn’t “team up”, vote “the lesser evil”.
EVERY VOTE NEEDS TO COUNT!
Make it happen dear Ontarians! It would be a great roll model for the rest of the country.
Ed the Hun, you are right on the money. The trouble is that most Canadians live in the densely populated parts of the country and don’t see with their own eyes how BIG and EMPTY this country is. Flying over it in on of those tubular extrusions fitted with wings doesn’t really do it, but driving the Dempster Highway or Ontario’s highway 11 between Hearst and Longlac does begin to give you a feel for it. And there are numerous other long drives with nothing but rocks, trees, and lakes in this country.
Sean: Millions of children do not “learn” about God before they learn about politics.
They are taken to a place of worship once a week and told about the religious beliefs of their parents.
They are indoctrinated in one religion.
They are not given a choice.
They are not exposed to the beliefs of other religions except in a negative way.
And I doubt that they learn at a young age that the theory of evolution is accepted by millions of people.
This link says that “Canada has already lost water rights to the NAU”.
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20070924134913470
This one concerns the credit crunch — if there ever was one (maybe there is!).
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20070925101013933
David B said:
Please tell me it ain’t so?
Yup it’s true. Tho they are all denying it like crazy. And now they are drawing the press into the game too.
Anything to keep the troops there beyond 2009.
“Canada wrote Afghan leader’s speech, NDP says”
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/260315
Geo
Bill, it seems that I was the one to start the debate on Ms May and her political choices.
I have viewed her decisions and at the time I was in agreement and respected her decision. However, I am not so sure of her ability to lead. Her desire to represent a riding she feels connected to is noble, unlike most politicians that are in a situatin that will do what it takes to win, ie Mulroney or Harper having an MP drop out and he wins a by-election.
However, with Ms May, her situation is even more tenative than anyother politician prior to her, at least that I might know of. She is in a fledgeling party that needs recognition within the capital building itself to show the public that the Green Party is serious. Until we see her in Parilament, no one in their right mind would or should take her or the party iself that serious.
Now I am not saying that she would not do her best to represent any riding that could give her the beat chance of winning, I would be disappointed if she did. But she should face reality in the sense that she may have to compromise her integrity if only for a couple of years before she can go wherever she wants.
If she is serious, she will need to do this for the betterment of the party, like it or not. In no way am I saying she is not a principled individual or a politician. She must be willing to do what it takes to get herself in Ottawa and then she can have the luxury of strategizing her victory in Nova Scotia.
I just searched the internet for the Clarity Act and nowhere does it say that Harper was the author. Even if Licia Corbella and Chantal Hebert have a hard on for Deceivin Steve, this does not change history.
So anyone who can provide concrete evidence and not a couple of journalists opinions, that Harper really was the author of the Clarity Act, post it here.
Until then I will continue to know that Stephane Dion was the author of the Clarity Act and the Liberal government with PM Chretien passed it into law in 2000.
By slg on 09.25.07 6:32 pm
Maybe you should read up on Parliament. Prorogue parliament is part of our parliamentary constitution and is quite normal thing to do. Generally, it’s done 1 or twice during a full term of government.
But hey slg, if educating yourself about our Canadian Parliamentary system is not your thing, then, please by all means spin and twist as much as you want.
If anyone wants to see how big and empty we are as a country, trust me, the jokes about being able to see your dog run away three days from your house in Saskatchewan is no exaggeration. As a test of your sanity and patience, go across Canada via Greyhound in the middle of winter. You have not seem desolation until you can hardly discern the horizon separting the ground from the sky. Once in a while you might see a building telling you where the ground is. It is truly amazing to see such large stretches of damn near nothing.
I suppose to ask the question of what is worse, a PM that is basically telling everyone he is expecting a minority government again with an upcoming election, or having said PM still in power.
Which of these situations is the lesser of two evils?
Please tell us you are not still looking for an orgy? LMAO!
Have a good night!
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.25.07 9:04 pm
Nah…too busy. The only ‘orgy’ on my mind right now is one of the taste buds. Just going through ideas for supper tonight (always do this early so I am prepared). I love to cook. I think tonight I will start with a really big salad, I will go one hour before supper and pick from the field, three different kinds of lettuce, arugula, from my garden onion, red pepper and tomatoes. I will make either a home-made cream dressing or vinaigrette. I also make my own croutons fresh so they are still a bit warm. For the main course I will either make scallop potatoes homemade with a white sauce and a ham roast or I will get some white asparagus out of my freezer cook until just tender, wrap in black forest ham slices and smother them in my home made extra old white cheddar cheese sauce. I bake them for about 30 minutes until the cheese just starts to lightly brown. On the side this dish calls for crispy fries deep fried in canola oil. Either main course will be accompanied with fresh carrots from my garden.
So, no ‘orgy’ as you are thinking, but an orgy none the less. It would be interesting to see Garth naked on Rick’s show though.
L
Did The One in The Dark say something? I must have ignored it!
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.25.07 7:50 pm
Nope. Just someone getting us confused unless you’ve moved to Chatham without telling anyone.
They are taken to a place of worship once a week and told about the religious beliefs of their parents.
They are indoctrinated in one religion.
They are not given a choice.
They are not exposed to the beliefs of other religions except in a negative way.
And I doubt that they learn at a young age that the theory of evolution is accepted by millions of people.
By Judy on 09.25.07 10:50 pm
And that’s why religion must be taught in schools as part of the curiculum, all religions, so our kids don’t get a biased view.
Despite being a Religious School system, separate schools do indeed teach our kids about other religions in Grades 11 and 12, at least in my area.
And both evolution and creationism should be taught, one in science, the other in religion and maybe the two can be brought together in philosophy, because they’re the same thing. Even the books I use, which have the Catholic Nihil Obstat and Imprimatum (consistant with Church teachings) when explaining Creationism vs. Evolution, “Science can help us understand the development of God’s creations.” So to teach one and exclude the other is only giving half the story IMHO.
So when it come to funding Religious Schools, the issue for me is not that they shouldn’t be funded. If they teach the provincial ciriculum in its entirity, and have accredited teachers, they should be funded.
However, Mr. Tory doesn’t want to fund religious schools, he wants to integrate them into public schools with a “religious hour.” Hence no chance of Mr. Tory getting my vote.
I’ve said this before, I have friends who are Catholic who work in public schools, and non-Catholics who work for the Separate School Boards. They all tell me that while both teach 2+2=4, there is something different in the Separate Schools. A higher level of respect is how they describe it.
By Tobias Kaiser on 09.25.07 10:14 pm
I might agree with you if the members were allowed to vote their conscience or on behalf of their constituents, however, under the present party system, they are told how to vote on almost all legislation, so effectively, we will have 39 more MPPs salaries to pay, their expenses, so that the leaders can tell them what to do, I don’t see any representation there sorry…
By Leasa on 09.26.07 7:20 am
Darn, and no invite to all of us? Like the teacher always asks ‘Did you bring enough for everyone?’ LOL
Sounds scrmptious!
By Emilie on 09.26.07 2:52 am
Steve and Manning get small credit for an early effort. Sort of a plain cheese pizza with no toppings. It made it through 1st reading in the House but no further.
Until then I will continue to know that Stephane Dion was the author of the Clarity Act and the Liberal government with PM Chretien passed it into law in 2000.
Exactly right. And the two items are as night and day:
Harper & Mannings offering:
Hansard Wednesday, October 30, 1996
QUEBEC CONTINGENCY ACT (REFERENDUM CONDITIONS)
Mr. Stephen Harper (Calgary West, Ref.) moved for leave to introduce Bill C-341, an act to establish the terms and conditions that must apply to a referendum relating to the separation of Quebec from Canada before it may be recognized as a proper expression of the will of the people of Quebec.
He said: Mr. Speaker, this bill outlines a process for dealing with any future referendum on the issue of Quebec sovereignty. There are three main features of this bill. First, it allows the Government of Canada to determine whether a referendum question in Quebec is clear and unambiguous. If it is not, the Government of Canada is required to undertake a number of actions, including the holding of a parallel referendum in Quebec which asks a clear question on separation from Canada.
Second, in the event of a yes vote, the bill authorizes the negotiation of separation subject to consultation with the provinces. Any final settlement would be subject to approval in a national referendum.
Finally, the bill affirms that a unilateral declaration of independence is ineffective with respect to Canadian law and does not affect the functioning of the Canadian Parliament, government or courts with respect to Quebec.
These proposals avoid the mistakes of the past, ensure a respect for our legal order and ensure that all Canadians, including Quebecers, have a role in shaping their future.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)
Now the Clarity Act, by Stephane Dion:
Presented to the House Dec 1999, passed 2000
Preamble
WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has confirmed that there is no right, under international law or under the Constitution of Canada, for the National Assembly, legislature or government of Quebec to effect the secession of Quebec from Canada unilaterally;
WHEREAS any proposal relating to the break-up of a democratic state is a matter of the utmost gravity and is of fundamental importance to all of its citizens;
WHEREAS the government of any province of Canada is entitled to consult its population by referendum on any issue and is entitled to formulate the wording of its referendum question;
WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that the result of a referendum on the secession of a province from Canada must be free of ambiguity both in terms of the question asked and in terms of the support it achieves if that result is to be taken as an expression of the democratic will that would give rise to an obligation to enter into negotiations that might lead to secession;
WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has stated that democracy means more than simple majority rule, that a clear majority in favour of secession would be required to create an obligation to negotiate secession, and that a qualitative evaluation is required to determine whether a clear majority in favour of secession exists in the circumstances;
WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has confirmed that, in Canada, the secession of a province, to be lawful, would require an amendment to the Constitution of Canada, that such an amendment would perforce require negotiations in relation to secession involving at least the governments of all of the provinces and the Government of Canada, and that those negotiations would be governed by the principles of federalism, democracy, constitutionalism and the rule of law, and the protection of minorities;
WHEREAS, in light of the finding by the Supreme Court of Canada that it would be for elected representatives to determine what constitutes a clear question and what constitutes a clear majority in a referendum held in a province on secession, the House of Commons, as the only political institution elected to represent all Canadians, has an important role in identifying what constitutes a clear question and a clear majority sufficient for the Government of Canada to enter into negotiations in relation to the secession of a province from Canada;
AND WHEREAS it is incumbent on the Government of Canada not to enter into negotiations that might lead to the secession of a province from Canada, and that could consequently entail the termination of citizenship and other rights that Canadian citizens resident in the province enjoy as full participants in Canada, unless the population of that province has clearly expressed its democratic will that the province secede from Canada;
NOW, THEREFORE, Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:
House of Commons to consider question
1. (1) The House of Commons shall, within thirty days after the government of a province tables in its legislative assembly or otherwise officially releases the question that it intends to submit to its voters in a referendum relating to the proposed secession of the province from Canada, consider the question and, by resolution, set out its determination on whether the question is clear.
Extension of time
(2) Where the thirty days referred to in subsection (1) occur, in whole or in part, during a general election of members to serve in the House of Commons, the thirty days shall be extended by an additional forty days.
Considerations
(3) In considering the clarity of a referendum question, the House of Commons shall consider whether the question would result in a clear expression of the will of the population of a province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada and become an independent state.
Where no clear expression of will
(4) For the purpose of subsection (3), a clear expression of the will of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada could not result from
(a) a referendum question that merely focuses on a mandate to negotiate without soliciting a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada; or
(b) a referendum question that envisages other possibilities in addition to the secession of the province from Canada, such as economic or political arrangements with Canada, that obscure a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada.
Other views to be considered
(5) In considering the clarity of a referendum question, the House of Commons shall take into account the views of all political parties represented in the legislative assembly of the province whose government is proposing the referendum on secession, any formal statements or resolutions by the government or legislative assembly of any province or territory of Canada, any formal statements or resolutions by the Senate, any formal statements or resolutions by the representatives of the Aboriginal peoples of Canada, especially those in the province whose government is proposing the referendum on secession, and any other views it considers to be relevant.
No negotiations if question not clear
(6) The Government of Canada shall not enter into negotiations on the terms on which a province might cease to be part of Canada if the House of Commons determines, pursuant to this section, that a referendum question is not clear and, for that reason, would not result in a clear expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada.
House of Commons to consider whether there is a clear will to secede
2. (1) Where the government of a province, following a referendum relating to the secession of the province from Canada, seeks to enter into negotiations on the terms on which that province might cease to be part of Canada, the House of Commons shall, except where it has determined pursuant to section 1 that a referendum question is not clear, consider and, by resolution, set out its determination on whether, in the circumstances, there has been a clear expression of a will by a clear majority of the population of that province that the province cease to be part of Canada.
Factors for House of Commons to take into account
(2) In considering whether there has been a clear expression of a will by a clear majority of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada, the House of Commons shall take into account
(a) the size of the majority of valid votes cast in favour of the secessionist option;
(b) the percentage of eligible voters voting in the referendum; and
(c) any other matters or circumstances it considers to be relevant.
Other views to be considered
(3) In considering whether there has been a clear expression of a will by a clear majority of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada, the House of Commons shall take into account the views of all political parties represented in the legislative assembly of the province whose government proposed the referendum on secession, any formal statements or resolutions by the government or legislative assembly of any province or territory of Canada, any formal statements or resolutions by the Senate, any formal statements or resolutions by the representatives of the Aboriginal peoples of Canada, especially those in the province whose government proposed the referendum on secession, and any other views it considers to be relevant.
No negotiations unless will clear
(4) The Government of Canada shall not enter into negotiations on the terms on which a province might cease to be part of Canada unless the House of Commons determines, pursuant to this section, that there has been a clear expression of a will by a clear majority of the population of that province that the province cease to be part of Canada.
Â
Constitutional amendments
3. (1) It is recognized that there is no right under the Constitution of Canada to effect the secession of a province from Canada unilaterally and that, therefore, an amendment to the Constitution of Canada would be required for any province to secede from Canada, which in turn would require negotiations involving at least the governments of all of the provinces and the Government of Canada.
Limitation
(2) No Minister of the Crown shall propose a constitutional amendment to effect the secession of a province from Canada unless the Government of Canada has addressed, in its negotiations, the terms of secession that are relevant in the circumstances, including the division of assets and liabilities, any changes to the borders of the province, the rights, interests and territorial claims of the Aboriginal peoples of Canada, and the protection of minority rights.
Sorry it’s so long but I felt it was important to show the actual difference between the two. Harper’s Bill C-341 was a good idea but, it died on the vine for whatever reasons. I suspect in part for not being clear enough.
Stephane Dion’s Clarity Act, insofar as any government act is clear to read, does set out Quebec’s or any province’s desire to cease to be a part of Canada, what will be taken into account.
For a good overview of the “Clarity Act” check out Wikipedia.
Geo
Â
Steve,
That would be true had this Conservative government not offended all of Atlantic provinces by not reconizing the terms of the Atlantic Accord and cut spending in their provinces.
I think Elizabeth May has an excellent chance of beating the knumbskull Peter MacKay who also has made sexist remarks about women by telling them to mind their own knitting, drooling over Ms. Rice and making disparging remarks in parliament about his old flame Linda. When he and Linda broke up, he looked like a hurt puppy rather than a leader with any spine of his own. L0L
I predict Conservatives will not seat one candidate in Atlantic Canada. And to my knowledge Liberals will not field a candidate against her. So all she has to beat are the minor parties.
Ed Brooks,
Been there with cobalt treatments but did not have to undergo chemo.
If it’s any consolation, I’m still here 36 years later and received a dismal prognosis at the time. I’ll pray you’re a survivor too. “Good luck!”
Oops…silly fingers make mistakes that my brain does not, that should be, “numbskull Peter MacKay!”
Why do you think we have the problems we have today. For many countries God, or their interpretation of God, and politics are past synonomous, they are one and the same.
That would also include the good old USA. Yes, God bless America, they need it!
Personally, put God back in the schools in all shape, forms and names. Let kids learn about ALL religions.
I’m Catholic, and my kids recieved a modified Catholic education as we homeschooled through grade 6. We also included a introduction into other faiths. No blinkers, no slant, no saying any was better/worse than any other. Along with the Bible we have copies of the other religious holy books.
What I don’t have is the right to impose my beliefs on anyone, including my kids. What I do have is the right to tell them what I believe and allow them to make their own decisions at the appropriate time.
By James- Chatham on 09.25.07 1:08 pm
Gee, the way you portray things you would think that atheists don’t cause any problems and that those who are religious cause all the problems. I believe kids should learn about God but not Mohammed or Budda, or all those that don’t believe in God.
Which beliefs should you not impose? Religious ones? Social ones? Political beliefs?
Just as the party with the most seats is given the opportunity to form the government, even if they do not have a majority, then surely the party with the next largest seat count would be the official opposition, whether their seats come from across Canada (West of Ontario) or from one province (Quebec)!
Its all a matter of who has most seats.
And 54 is more than 52!
By James- Chatham on 09.25.07 12:54 pm
At the time, I remember the Reform Party stating that the Government can name any party to official opposition. The hypocrisy of it all was that they named the Bloc Quebecois. That was a slap in the face of many Canadians.
They aren’t, that’s why faith based schools are a very bad idea!
By pjw on 09.25.07 1:10 pm
I think its a bad idea as well for a few reasons.
One being that Tory stated they would have to follow the province’s curricullum.
Two being that I don’t believe in multi-culturalism and this is another form.
Three being that our taxes will go up because we’ll be funding them. Today, they are mostly in private schools.
Sean P.,
Worldviews of religion, you left out Islam, Confucianism, and the individual to whom you addressed your remarks would likely leave out the religion of Judaism because they rejected Jesus as a portential savior.
Sean: Millions of children do not “learn†about God before they learn about politics.
They are taken to a place of worship once a week and told about the religious beliefs of their parents.
They are indoctrinated in one religion.
They are not given a choice.
They are not exposed to the beliefs of other religions except in a negative way.
And I doubt that they learn at a young age that the theory of evolution is accepted by millions of people.
By Judy on 09.25.07 10:50 pm
Judy, that could be a possibility but you seem to omit that millions learn about religion before politics. Judy, do you believe in giving children choices or not? Wouldn’t it be better to get them to learn about religion and then when they’re old enough, make a choice rather than not teaching them at all? Why stop at religion? Why not stop them from going to school?
Sean P. Hogan,
Worldviews of religion, you left out Islam, Confucianism, and the individual to whom you addressed your remarks would likely leave out the religion of Judaism because they rejected Jesus as a potential savior.
Ed,
Your point about relative population density is noted. It takes as long to get to Montreal from Vancouver as it does to get to Asia. No arguments there.
Unfortunately, goods and services in Canada are rarely moved in the east-west direction, but rather north-south, and as such this issue of “landmass” is a red herring. We could slice up Ontario or Alberta into masses the size of any northern european nation, and still we would be higher.
As far as “coldness”, you can look at Russia and the former USSR states as an aggregate for all I care, and still Canada comes out higher.
As a net energy exporter, that is an issue for Canada. The question is why we are relegating ourselves as a Third World nation, when we should be entirely self-sufficient and technologically advanced. Why we are increasing the dependence on oil and its byproducts, when the opposite should be encouraged (not to mention the simple fact that oil sands development is entirely predicated on world markets).
But some people have a narrow vision of what Canada is, rather than what it can be, I suppose…
Austin
Sean P Hogan,
Not learn about Mohammed or Budda? What are you afraid of?
Canuck (09.26.07 3:00 pm),
I agree that Elizabeth May has a good chance against Peter MacKay. The political dynamics in this riding have always made it interesting. Much of the riding was traditionally Liberal (part of Alan J. MacEachern’s old riding). A disasterous choice of Liberal candidates gave MacKay easy victories and the NDP the second place showing in the last two elections. May needs to capture a good chunk of that vote. MacKay has a solid traditional core vote but he has been gradually losing the swing vote since the merger. He would have to hold onto most of the remaining swing vote to be re-elected.
I would like to correct you on one point: the girlfriend for which MacKay dumped his former girlfriend was Belinda.
Bill wrote.
Harper admitted today he expects a ‘minority’ government. I am sure all Canadians will help fullfill his expectations. Perhaps relieve him of even that, and create a minority Liberal government. People are PISSED!
Yes Bill finally we have a Pm who finally being factual. Even you agreed with me before when I said we are likely going to have minority governments for some time in the future. I gather from your comments that it is Ok for us to say there will be one not the Pm. Humm hypocritical on our part don’t you think.
Time will only tell if a Liberal gvernmnet will be lected. But from everything I have read, seen and viewed indicates that this is not likely under Dion’s leadership. As I said before he just hasn’t connected with the voter and time is running out. Personally I rather doubt he Liberals have the guts to bring down the government in October as some here wish. Frankly I hope they do. Also it will be very intersting what the next SES poll will indicate after the Quebec by elections. I suspect Liberals will drop in the polls and dion’s satisfaction rate will also take a hit.
You say people are pissed. Well Bill they have been pissed long before haper formed his government so what you say is nothing new. That is why we hav had sucessive minority governments and will continue to do so IMHO. The polls demonstrate that fact. Unfortuanely for you (Green) and the Liberal supporters they are just as pissed at the Liberals if not more. However,when you compare the leadership popularity and who would make the best PM. Harper has consistantly won hands down over Dion. Your leader, May, is further down the list, I respect her political savvy although I dissagree with a lot of the Green’s policy.
I noticed May has been largely silent the last few months and seems to have dissapeared off the face of the earth. Is there something wrong with her? ll/ If so that is very unfotunate. .
Even Dion has not been that visable nationally although he has travelled accross Canada doing the barbi circuit. Unfortunatley for him, he just has connected with the voters.
Hey Austin,
It is accepted by almost all the experts if not all that the biggest overall polluters in the world are Russia, China, India and the USA. Even the environmental groups agree.
You can spin the data all you like but in real terms about per capita etc but our share of the overall 100% emmisions is 2%. Btw, that is not my figure. I noticed you didn;t mention the other two biggest polluters. Russia and the USA. Why did you leave them out? I would guess they would have not supported your position.
I noticed May has been largely silent the last few months and seems to have dissapeared off the face of the earth. Is there something wrong with her? ll/ If so that is very unfotunate.
By van on 09.26.07 3:51 pm
Elizabeth May has been in quite a bit of pain and required hip replacement surgery. According to the Green website her surgery went well and she is into her six week recovery.
Uh…Van…
Are the emissions of Russia and the USA supposed to refute my position on per capita amounts?
We are right up there with the US, and higher than Russia. I gave the link to an article, and unless you do not know how to perform simple arithmetic, it is pretty clear that we are among the top if not the top per capita producers.
(I suppose I should apologize, though, maybe it is too taxing for you to be able to divide numbers…)
And this is supposed to make us all feel good how?
Austin
By van on 09.26.07 3:51 pm
Long may minority governments be! Until they learn to work together for OUR good, I do NOT want a majority government with unrestricted power, regardless of the party.
I want a government that takes the best ideas, regardless of where they come from, debates, in a civil manner, the benefits and liabilities to US, not them, and resolves the problems we see hanging on, and on, election after election.
Only then will we have a functioning ‘majority’ of solid thinking public servants working on OUR behalf. That goes for both the federal and provincial levels.
And this is supposed to make us all feel good how?
By Austin So on 09.26.07 5:07 pm
If Canada were able to cut it`s GHG emissions to zero, theoretically it would cut 2% from the global total even if we are the biggest contributor per capita. That even exceeds Kyoto targets with minimal effect globally but wait, here`s the feel good news. Even if we meet Kyoto targets the increases in methane released from the melting permafrost will reduce Canada`s contribution to .0002%. The good news ,even if we walk away from Kyoto our contribution of .0002% won`t even be a factor in GW.
Ok so that was a little humour to get your attention but the fact is, sending $10`s of billions offshore on a carbon trading scheme won`t reduce GHG emissions by .0002% let alone 2%.
Other than a concept transportation system I see no way of reducing GHG unless you`re counting on a global depression that will reduce consumption by 75%. Perhaps you support creating a green economy. First it will take massive investment by industry, I don`t see more than a token amount. Perhaps you favor governments creating huge deficits on tax breaks to put enough money in their pockets to afford going green. Without consumer involvement industry won`t invest.
If you`re really worried about GW then give us a viable solution instead of using it to bash the opposition.
For those interested. The very word ‘heretic’ means ‘choice!’ Long may heresy live!
Elizabeth May has been in quite a bit of pain and required hip replacement surgery. According to the Green website her surgery went well and she is into her six week recovery.
By C. B. Innes on 09.26.07 4:59 pm
Well, I hope she didn’t have to wait 2 years for her surgery, like my friend did recently.
I wish her well in her recovery.
Canuck
Perhaps you will prove me correct and if so I will gladly accept being corrected. I would hope that so long as she understands what it takes to get the job done and she screws over McKay I’ll be fine with that. I could do into comments about the racial taboo in NS with those of minority pigmentation and Peter’s nasty break up but that would be like shooting fish in a barrel with any firearm.
For a good overview of the “Clarity Act†check out Wikipedia.
Geo
Sorry Geo but since anyone, especially those from our “new†government can go to Wikipedia and change facts I don’t go there and do not accept any info posted there.
But we know why the bill was dropped:
On the Order: Private Members’ Business:
October 30, 1996-Mr. Preston Manning (Calgary Southwest)-Second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs of Bill C-341, an act to establish the terms and conditions that must apply to a referendum relating to the separation of Quebec from Canada before it may be recognized as a proper expression of the will of the people of Quebec.
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais): The hon. member for Calgary Southwest is not present to move the order as announced in today’s notice paper. Accordingly the motion will be dropped to the bottom of the orders of precedence on the Order Paper.
[Translation]
The sitting is suspended until 6.30 p.m., unless the hon. members agree to call it 6.30 p.m.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
[English]
Mr. Campbell: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. May I call it 6.30 p.m?
The Acting Speaker (Mrs. Ringuette-Maltais): Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stephan Dion was brought into politics by Jean Chretien in 1996 after the Quebec Referendum for the purpose of writing the Clarity Act. Seems to me that Harpo and Manning wanted to show Dion up so they came up with vague versions of terms and conditions of referenda. Sitting around saying, “me too†does not account for much.
I know the clarity idea has been around for a number of years, before Harper and Manning started playing “me too†but it took Dion to get the job done.
Emilie,
Funny thing. Let’s see. The liberals oversaw the near demise of Canada (the last referendum). It took the opposition to bring forward the idea of establishing rules regarding that breakup. Of course as an opposition party, in a majority government situation, there is little that they could do.
You can try to frame this issue anyway you want, but at the end of the day, the Reform party brought this issue to the forefront. The liberals followed.
Ed the Hun
Emilie,
Very interesting, I didn’t know about Manning not being there for the 2nd reading.
But I do know that without Dion writing the “3 letters” , without his thinking it through completely. We would not have the Clarity Act at all.
And I know that Wiki can be messed with big time. It’s easy to go in and check how much. This entry has been left alone as too many people know the truth I believe:).
So as to contributing to the Act Harper/Manning get a 1.5, Dion gets 8.5. No, Dion gets the full 10, because H/M really didn’t give a shit as has been shown.
Geo
You can try to frame this issue anyway you want, but at the end of the day, the Reform party brought this issue to the forefront. The liberals followed.
Ed the Hun
As you say…. you can frame this issue anyway you want but the time line shows clearly that there was no interest from Harper or Manning to frame the referenda/unity question until Jean Chretien brought Dion on the scene.
Just as today Stevie and Flim Flam are preening about their great surplus whereas when Paul Martin use to do the same it was because he was incompetent.
Ya can’t have it both ways.
I agree Geo… Dion 10 and Manning/Harper 1.5
Sean P Hogan,
Not learn about Mohammed or Budda? What are you afraid of?
By Georgine on 09.26.07 3:46 pm
The basis of your question is false. Why do you limit your thought processes to fear when one objects to something that you don’t? Its like that ridiculous word, homophobia. It isn’t a phobia at all, its an objection. 2 totally different things.
“QUEBEC CONTINGENCY ACT (REFERENDUM CONDITIONS)
Mr. Stephen Harper (Calgary West, Ref.) moved for leave to introduce Bill C-341, an act to establish the terms and conditions that must apply to a referendum relating to the separation of Quebec from Canada before it may be recognized as a proper expression of the will of the people of Quebec.
He said: Mr. Speaker, this bill outlines a process for dealing with any future referendum on the issue of Quebec sovereignty. There are three main features of this bill. First, it allows the Government of Canada to determine whether a referendum question in Quebec is clear and unambiguous. If it is not, the Government of Canada is required to undertake a number of actions, including the holding of a parallel referendum in Quebec which asks a clear question on separation from Canada.
Second, in the event of a yes vote, the bill authorizes the negotiation of separation subject to consultation with the provinces. Any final settlement would be subject to approval in a national referendum.
Finally, the bill affirms that a unilateral declaration of independence is ineffective with respect to Canadian law and does not affect the functioning of the Canadian Parliament, government or courts with respect to Quebec.
These proposals avoid the mistakes of the past, ensure a respect for our legal order and ensure that all Canadians, including Quebecers, have a role in shaping their future.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)”
Emilie,
That is harper’s private member’s bill 30 Oct 1996. How can you say he had no interest? Of course it didn’t past the 1st reading.
Who had the majority in 1996? It wasn’t the liberals was it? Of course the private member’s bill went the way of the dinosaur… the majority government wouldn’t allow it to see the light of day.
The Clarity Act passed was dion’s under the liberal majority government in 2000. However, it in so many ways is a copy of harper’s 1996 Quebec Contingency Act, bill c-341.
Ed the Hun