Something Conservative MPs apparently wish I wouldn’t do.
Turner, Miller trade barbs; Former Conservative, now Liberal, MP holding town hall meeting tonight
By JONATHON JACKSON
Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound MP Larry Miller won’t be welcoming a former caucus colleague to Owen Sound tonight.
In fact, he says, Halton MP Garth Turner would be better off staying away.
Turner is in town to conduct a town hall meeting at the city’s Royal Canadian Legion branch.
He and Miller were elected to the House of Commons in 2006 as Conservatives, but Turner was kicked out of the party last fall for his opposition to party policies or for breaching caucus confidentiality – depending on who you believe.
After sitting briefly as an independent MP, Turner joined the Liberal party last February and plans to carry that banner into the next federal election. In the meantime, he’s visiting places like Owen Sound to find out what the voters have to say.
“I’ve found that there is a real appetite on the part of Canadians to be able to get a message directly to an MP, not just their staff or not just sending an e-mail, but look somebody right in the eye and tell them what you think,” he said on Wednesday.
The MP’s job is to take those messages back to their caucus and to Parliament. That’s where Turner says he ran into problems with Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
“You’re a representative of the people and you don’t work for a party and you don’t work for a leader,” Turner said. “Harper’s view is, if you’re an MP, you work for him.
“Larry Miller is a good guy and I like him and I think he works hard. But the problem is, when you get inside that Conservative caucus room, you can’t stand up. You’re just not allowed to get up there and say prime minister, I think we’re wrong . . . (Harper) doesn’t allow that.”
In a news release announcing his visit, Turner said many Conservative MPs – and he specifically cited Miller – have “refused” to stage such meetings.
“They seem only too happy to hide in Ottawa these days where Mr. Harper has. . . severely muzzled his caucus and taken actions which seriously call into question his stated goal of having an open and accountable government,” he said in the release.
“That’s an absolute bunch of BS,” Miller replied. “I’ve never been requested to have a town hall meeting by anyone. I would never turn down any requests for one; that isn’t the way I operate and everybody in the riding knows it.”
He also wondered if Turner had forgotten to invite him to the meeting, which Miller was unaware of until Tuesday.
“Garth Turner should stay home and look after his own riding. He’s been travelling around the country all summer, having these town hall meetings, which is his prerogative, but he’s doing it on taxpayer money.”
Miller also slammed Turner for joining the Liberals, saying he should have resigned his seat and run in a byelection to see if his constituents would support such a move.
Turner said he decided to go with the Liberals rather than remain independent because he was unable to make an impact.
“You can’t . . . speak during a debate, you can’t sit on parliamentary committees and you can’t be involved in legislation,” he said.
Tonight’s meeting starts at 7 p.m. and will be preceded by a meet-and-greet. Admission is free.
121 comments ↓
Miller says he’s never been asked to hold a town meeting – ah, Mr. Miller – what’s wrong with volunteering to hold one to get a feel about what issues are important to your constituents and asking pertinent questions?
Wish I could be there, but it’s a bit far from Ottawa.
Garth, what does your imitation of the Energizer Bunny use for fuel?
Will someone in his riding please send him a request for a town hall =P
Hell, knowing Garth, if the guy showed up he’d probably be handed a mic and asked to comment.
Garth, you could even turn it into a mini debate right in owen sound *lol*
I asked Larry Miller to take a letter to Mr Harper and Mr flaherty and he refused saying it would hurt his position in the party. This was over the income trust debacle. Garth gladley took it to parliament and read it for us . Thanks Garth i am glad you had the guts not like the tories who both my wife and I supported all our lives.TILL NOW
Here is a little quote from G.W.E. Russell:
Child: Mamma,are Tories born wicked, or do they grow wicked afterwards?
Mother: They are born wicked, and grow worse.
Miller says he’s never been asked to hold a town meeting – ah, Mr. Miller – what’s wrong with volunteering to hold one to get a feel about what issues are important to your constituents and asking pertinent questions?
By slg on 09.27.07 12:18 pm
What would be the point? Mr. Harper and his band of merry men make all the decisions for them, just the same way as Jean (golf balls) Chretien used to do! There just aren’t many Garths around! MPs today are a sorry lot!
Miller certainly isn’t very well informed if he thinks the tax-payers are paying for the town halls. Get with the program….or does he know the truth but he can’t resist telling a …
This stunning headline is soon going to have a stunning bait n switch brought to it….”Hundreds of enraged Afghans chanting “death to Canada” blocked a highway Wednesday following a raid by foreign troops that left two religious leaders dead.”
They Hate Us, so we’re going to stay so they can be forced to Love Us, right? I’m sure we will be told those hundreds were all rabid Taliban, but that simply is not true.
Ottawa reduced the national debt last year by more than $14 billion, resulting in an annual savings of $750 million in interest payments.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty made the announcement on Thursday.
Both promised that those savings would result in cuts to personal income taxes for Canadians.
They credited the surplus to a strong economy bringing in higher revenues, and prudent, focused spending that was $700 million lower than projected in the March budget.
Harper cited an old expression about the inevitability of death and taxes: “In Canada for far too long the same thing could be said about debt and taxes,” he said.
He said paying down the debt is an investment in Canada’s future, and serves as good news “for the taxpayers of our future, our children and grandchildren.”
I think Miller could take Garth easily. Garth Turner should be very afraid of Larry Miller.
This huge deficit that we are even now trying to tackle little by little was brought on (in my view) by misguided policies of the Trudeau years when the government hugely overspent, and went into deficit financing beyond what was affordable.
It is true that Mulroney largely pursued the same policy of deficit financing during his tenure, but this is why he had to bring in the very unpopular GST in order to enable the government to deal with it.
Chretien and Martin inherited Mulroney’s legacy of the GST and Free Trade, which is what largely enabled them to begin paring down the national debt.
This time, once we pay off our humungus nation debt, let’s lower taxes rather than to squander our children’s inheritance.
The baby boomer generation mortgaged their children’s future, and now this generation is having to deal with this mother of a mess, and unhelpful legacy. May we never make the same mistake again, and mortgage our children’s future. It is simply not fair.
Hey garth i see you are still an asshole
Miller would never hold such a meeting as Boss Hog Harper would nix it before it ever got off the ground.
Maybe your visit will inspire the good people of our riding to think twice before re-electing Mr Miller.
Keep up the good work Garth.
To paraphrase: “If you organise one, they will attend.”
Feeble excuse for doing nothing.
It is true that Mulroney largely pursued the same policy of deficit financing during his tenure
In the last year of his government, Mulroney would have had an operating surplus if you could ignore the crushing interest on the accumulated debt.
I would argue that one of the toughest problems Mulroney had to deal with is the ‘entitlement’ felt by Canadian voters after years and years of Trudeau telling us we didn’t have to pay for our services and succeeding on the policy of deficit financing.
Garth, how are your whirlwind tours of other MP’s ridings financed? How many taxpayer’s dollars are being used to enable you to spread the “Word according to Garth”? Oh, and how have your constituents suffered by you not being at your office, roaming around the country?
Well, tonight for example, is costing you nothing. Locals booked the hall and got the word out, and I’m paying my own gas. Even taking my own A/V equipment. Your are welcome to send money, though. Donations gleefully accepted at http://www.garthturner.com. — Garth
Why bother pointing out the truth Ike… It’s not like the Liberals will ever admitted their vaunted god Trudeau could possibly be the reason we’re paying down the deficit today.
Liberals… long on ideas, short on implementation.
Conservatives… fixing liberal ideas so they actually work.
Please god, someone find an email… I’m sure someone has asked for a public meeting with Miler. Print it up and send it to your newspapers. And if Miller makes accusations that the Town Hall tour was taxpayer funded, show us the proof. Making accusations without knowing for sure is lying M. Miller. Don’t you know that?
Ike, a few facts to round out your recent post.
FACT: Brian Mulroney DOUBLED THE NATIONAL DEBT in just 8 years.
FACT: Brian Mulroney claimed (and all the right wing economists agreed) that the GST was REVENUE NEUTRAL – i.e. it raised no more revenue than the tax the GST replaced.
FACT: The free trade agreement cost hundreds of thousands of Canadian jobs and put the country into a deep recession. The turnaround which occurred during Chretien’s term was largely the result of improved monetary policy, not free trade, since the vast majority of trade which occurred were in areas largely unaffected by the trade agreement (autos for example).
FACT: The Liberals under Chretein cut spending more than any other government in Canadian History, resulting in budget surpluses.
FACT: Harper has drastically and massively increased government spending since taking power. Harper has outspent every government in Canadian History by a wide margin.
FACT: Given their track record, its clear that nobody can spend money like neoCONs. The CPC spends OUR money like a bunch of NDPer’s on crack.
FACT:
Oh, and how have your constituents suffered by you not being at your office, roaming around the country?
Oh, give it a rest. Garth has a dedicated office staff working for him in Milton, and he is never out of touch. He has responded to every email I have sent him.
correction to my third point – the majority of INCREASED production occurred in areas not covered by the free trade agreement. In fact, the free trade agreement has been largely inconsequential. Indeed, in the past several years, Canada’s relative trade with the US has gone down, not up. Trade with the US, as a percentage of the whole, has dropped 12%. Our trade with other countries, particularly China, has gone up dramatically. The net effect is that the free trade agreement has done little or nothing to stimulate the Canadian economy.
I think Miller could take Garth easily. Garth Turner should be very afraid of Larry Miller.
Garth scared of Larry?09.27.07 1:02 pm
And who might you be, my little lady?
It looks to me like Miller would have great difficulty looking back over his shoulder. Does he have a ”taster” in Ottawa, or does he just plough right on in? It does seem, the mark of GREATNESS among politicians in the southern Ontario region, is to have Michael Coren
comment on their greatness and girth.
A man of SUBSTANCE, without a doubt. A man of intellect … extremely doubtful.
”Nobody has asked me to hold a meeting” Oh well, we know a phonebooth would be an unsuitable venue, less’n he wants to be his own captive audience.
Strange times. Garth Turner has to organize his own town hall meetings, get taxpayers to fork out donations to pay for the halls, (one would hope Garth that these Liberal political donations are recorded), do his own self promotions for the meetings, etc.
In most constituencies in Canada it works the other way around. Organizations such as community leagues, neighbourhood groups, business or service organization slike Kinsmen, Rotary, Shriners, etc. INVITE their MPs to be the keynote guest speakers. In fact, I know for a fact that these types of events and speaking to and with groups is a HUGE part of every elected officials constituency work.
I have been part of booking these question and answer functions for politicians and there are always more invites than can possibly be attended but we try – at times having two or more groups get together to make them happen.
I wonder why Garth has to do his own. Garth – do you not get any invitations?
Nice try. Actually I was invited to Owen Sound, starting many months ago. The locals organized this on their own, arranged the meeting, did the publicity, paid for the hall and arranged me to come and speak. I was also invited into the 12 communites in the West I just returned from (locals sis all that work, too), and we are now scheduling meetings for eastern Canada. Oh yeah, and I’ve done 30 Town Halls in Halton, as well as the usual community groups you reference. Did you have a point, sweets? — Garth
The diff between Garth and Miller: the latter’s lazy. Using the argument of being asked to hold a town hall is pure laziness. As far as I can see, Garth’s tour of town halls started with him organizing them, not being asked (only further on was he asked). Tell Miller the only BS is the notion of him truly representing his riding.
. . . but he’s doing it on taxpayer money.â€
Miller also slammed Turner for joining the Liberals, saying he should have resigned his seat and run in a byelection . . .
————————————-
Perhaps Miller can correct himself (unlikely, as he is a paid troll), and has to tow Harper’s line OR ELSE!
Further,
Both promised that those savings would result in cuts to personal income taxes for Canadians.
By Ike on 09.27.07 12:59 pm
Now the CRAP is going to bring the tax rates back to where they were BEFORE they lowered the consumption tax (GST) by 1%. Great. That makes about as much sense as farting against a hurricane.
Out of interest, why doesn’t a federal government introduce a flat tax of 15% for people who have an income of $50,000 or less, 22% for $50,001-124,999 and 29% thereafter?
People would know where they stood — stability — and at least a consumption tax could stay at 7%. The majority of people would be grudgingly happy with that.
Re: comments by Ed Brooks on 09.27.07 1:51 pm
What people tend to forget is that the huge deficits were a direct result of the high interest rates that were experienced after the Trudeau government deregulated the credit industry on behalf of the financial institutions.
People on the right who supported this gift to the financial institutions blame social spending entirely for the problem. They are only correct to the point that in order to transfer monetary power to the private sector the government would have had to drastically reduce spending across the board. The rapid increase in easy credit fueled inflation which the Bank of Canada was controlled by raising interest rates.
The result was a massive transfer of capital from taxpayers to financial institutions because the Government also saw its interest payments skyrocket. This was the main contributor to the deficits and rising debt.
The correction from this “freeing of the market” for credit was behind the issue.
What I think most people have forgotten is that the PCs promised to reduce and eventually eliminate income tax once the situation stabilized which it eventually should have.
However, Paul Martin was constantly being pushed by the right wing think tanks to cut social spending in exchange for corporate tax cuts which is what he did. This downloaded more of the tax burden onto individual taxpayers.
What Harper should have done was cut income tax rather than increase them, leave income trusts alone, leave the GST alone and restore at least the PC levels of life-time tax free capital gains to encourage people, at least those in the middle income groups, to save for the future.
The even more extreme deregulation of credit in the United States coupled with low interest rates and capital globalization is what is now sending shock waves through global capital markets.
I only ever had one conversation with Mr Miller (my MP) on the phone and it was not very productive in that he could only repeat the party line and had nothing personal to add to that point of view. I was, and am still not impressed! Garth, please do not take his remarks as the opinions of the community, I am sure there are many that will welcome ANY debate about the way our federal government operates and any insight into possible solutions for our faltering economy. The community to which you are coming is listed as 99th in the 107 Ontario ridings in so far as family income goes so you can understand our interest. Unfortunatly I will not be there except in spirit, hope you will report on the meeting in your usual forthright manner.
The pictures on this blog bring one point to “bear”.
The Tummy Tuck is not on the CRAP Health Platform.
FACT: Brian Mulroney DOUBLED THE NATIONAL DEBT in just 8 years.
By Elias on 09.27.07 2:23 pm
If the debt was $11.3 Billion before Trudeau, and the debt at the end of the Trudeau era was $128 Billion, and the debt at the end of the Mulroney era had
skyrocketed to $576 Billion, that must mean the debt increased by $448 Billion during the Mulroney years. That would mean PM Mulroney’s government increased the debt by a multiple of (x 3.5)
Source: Eric S. Margolis [not a friend of Trudeau, either] Sunday Oct. 8 2000
CP–Globe & Mail–Friday, Nov 5 2004
”After eliminating Canada’s $42 Billion deficit, Ottawa recorded seven straight budget surpluses … The best record among the group of seven developed nations … and is now paying down debt.”
So, good friend Elias, if’n you[z]e is goin’ fer a coffee, make it an ”almost double-double” for me, ‘cos I got to watch out fer Miller’s ability to turn on a dime.
With compliments, from a coaster sans le
”defeatist” attitude!
Charles Oxley, your “flat tax” plan would require millions of low income Canadians to pay far more taxes then they do now. Currently, there is a basic person deduction, below which you don’t pay taxes. Furthermore, a “flat” tax means one tax rate, not three progressively higher rates (we already have that). Finally, tax rates, by themselves, mean nothing. Tax deductions, credits, and the definition of what constitutes “income” are at least as important as the tax rate. That’s why a simple flat tax is in the realm of science fiction.
Why a Town Hall? Because Canadians over taxed by $14.2 Billion!
http://communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/posted/archive/2007/09/27/14-2b-surplus-gives-conservatives-political-firepower-bmo-economist.aspx
Hello Larry Miller, you best read your own words…..
He also wondered if Turner had forgotten to invite him to the meeting, which Miller was unaware of until Tuesday.
“Garth Turner should stay home and look after his own riding. He’s been travelling around the country all summer, having these town hall meetings, which is his prerogative, but he’s doing it on taxpayer money.â€
By his own admission he knew of Garth Lost Tory Tour, as he spouted off about taxpayer money which was explained more than once, and you have to be living on Mars not to believe that Consevatives including the PMO do read this web site looking for some fatal mis-print or such…RIGHT PMO STAFFERS, I know they know me because they do not phone my home anymore asking for money every other week or so like they did before I became part of this Blog, hey Garth thanks, and I will sent some stick money when the time comes, I put some coffee money in a pay pal account just for said purpose.
I will give Larry Millier credit because he now “Must Hold a Town Hall Meeting” or resign his seat and do it quickly, as he stated or his “Word is MUD” it just that simple, and there better not be one red cent of taxpayer money Larry…….or just eat humble pie and say; “I am sorry Mr. Turner you were correct and I lied please forgive me”
Sometimes Mr. Millier it is better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. You can prove us all wrong to which I will be first to apologize if it open fair and honest as has been all of Garth Turners.
That makes about as much sense as farting against a hurricane.
By Charles Oxley on 09.27.07 2:51 pm
Best NOT say that before ANY gathering of far farters in Burlington.
PYOTR PETROBITCH: thank you for the clarification. As for coffee…well, I’m stressed enough…I’ll go decaf.
Hey garth i see you are still an asshole
By nemississs on 09.27.07 1:07 pm
>> Holds up mirror for nemississs
Well, tonight for example, is costing you nothing. Locals booked the hall and got the word out, and I’m paying my own gas. Even taking my own A/V equipment. Your are welcome to send money, though. Donations gleefully accepted at http://www.garthturner.com. — Garth
By Oscar on 09.27.07 1:57 pm
Oscar, son… you’ve been burned but good!!
It is too bad only the Conservative party members are being insulted of their appearance on this fine blog. There are plenty of overweight politicians. Hedy Fry, Dawn Black and plenty of others from various parties are hopefully not the spokes people for weight loss. Elizibeth May could really afford herself to visit a orthodontist as well as run some laps.
By Elias on 09.27.07 3:15 pm
Flat tax:
1. Lowest income earners could pay zero taxes if the exemption is high enough. No need to remove the TD1 exeption.
2. Our progressive system is arbitatry. Who decides at what level of income a tax bracket starts and ends and how? Do we have three brackets or four or even more to be more progressive?
3.Deductions, credits and what constitues income, as you point out, are important. But just imagine the IT fiasco, with a flat tax. No dividend markup rules which because of our progressive system give a different benefit depending on tax bracket. Everyone paying the same tax on a dollar profit, corporate and personal taxes, through an IT or a corporation, would be easy.
4. Science fiction: maybe because someone would have to look at every section, rule and regulation and rewrite the tax act, which would be a good thing and make it a darn sight simpler for everyone to understand.
5. My copy of the Act makes a good doorstop.
Miller says he’s never been asked to hold a town meeting.
Maybe because people don’t want to hear a Harper parrot when they ask questions!
He then calls CPC headquarters for the OK. and they say
The federal budget surplus
for the year ended March 31
hit $13.8 billion, Prime Minister
Stephen Harper revealed
in Toronto today.
The above excerpt is from an article in the Toronto Star. So, tell me again why the CONS had to decimated Income Trusts.
They are either downright stupid, or outright liars. In either case, they deserver to be tossed out of office asap. Bring on the election!!
Lorrain: Exactly how many of my tax dollars are you ripping me off for again?
We now have proof positive that Lorrain is a CPC pickpocket blogging at taxpayer’s expense. Note her own comments in her latest post:
I know for a fact that these types of events and speaking to and with groups is a HUGE part of every elected officials constituency work…
how could she “know if for a fact” unless she is paid to do it for someone?
and
I have been part of booking these question and answer functions for politicians and there are always
There you have it folks. Out of the pork’s mouth (so to speak) – an admission that Lorraine is a card carrying, tax sucking, both front feet in the public trough CPC pick pocket. Nice to know my taxes are being spent so wisely.
PMSH & Minister Flaherty say we are rolling in money…..hmmm
Tax money comes from only one place big time, we the little people, why because we have little or no way to write anything off. Get it? Who raised taxes PMSH that’s who! and he just found out he has a surplus “REALLY”?
So now I know all the things you have talked about to help with tax burden are sound measures, I understand and apprieciate there is complete bigger picture but I believe M. Dion will listen so thank you for hope.
I also understand business has a very large part to play also, that is why I stated the big picture.
Round of today’s news:
U.S. reaction to Ahmadinejad rhetorical overkill
His bombast aside, Ahmadinejad’s country, unlike the U.S., has not launched a war in recent memory, though it has been implicated in terrorism. It is also not presiding over the killings of tens of thousands, as is the U.S. in Iraq.
For Bush et al., Iran is a good diversion from all that has gone wrong in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and the Israeli occupied territories. They are angry at Iran for grabbing the opportunities they have handed it on a platter.
They are now trying to slay the dragon of their own creation.
—–
Harper and Tory strategist reveal dark side
Pushing the country into an election while blaming the opposition is a standard gambit that only needs to be seen for what it is to be fairly judged. But using non-partisan public institutions, particularly the military, for the political purpose of surreptitiously moulding national opinion is as slippery a slope as appointing a bureaucrat with Tory ties to lead the RCMP.
Both decisions would be worrying even if an inner circle Conservative wasn’t making it so clear how far the party will go to gain unfettered power and how anxious it is to fully apply its ideology. But Flanagan is and that adds caveats to even the Prime Minister’s most persuasive performances.
Harper in peak form remains the most palatable part of the Conservative cookie. But the dark half still leaves the same old bitter taste, one that would be unhealthy to acquire.
http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/261071
—–
Neither Flanagan nor Harper fooled me in the previous election and they won’t succeed in the next federal election either. Harper’s makeup slips occasionally to reveal he would gut the federal government with all its social programmes leaving no safety net for those that need it.
——
Tories backtrack on child-care promise
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/260911
Bunch of amateurs…too bad they won’t admit they’re clueless!
By the way, who needs a 35 dollar decrease in their taxes? I’d rather that money be spent on programmes that relieve poverty. But this conservative government prefers attempting to bribe voters with their own money rather than fund programmes that are effective. I suppose it could be because Conservatives have no idea how to design social programmes.
Makeovers, it’s possible to put lipstick on a pig, but it isn’t possible to change a pig into a being something other than what it is–a pig!
Hmmmm, didn’t the Liberals accuse Stephen Harper of leading us into deficits. Seems the Liberals are talking out of their behinds and haven’t got a clue.
Flaherty, Harper announce $13.8 billion surplus
Updated Thu. Sep. 27 2007 3:59 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Ottawa reduced the national debt last year by more than $14 billion, resulting in an annual savings of $750 million in interest payments.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty made the announcement on Thursday.
Both promised that those savings would result in cuts to personal income taxes for Canadians.
They credited the surplus to a strong economy bringing in higher revenues, and prudent, focused spending that was $700 million lower than projected in the March budget.
Harper cited an old expression about the inevitability of death and taxes: “In Canada for far too long the same thing could be said about debt and taxes,” he said.
Seems people over at CTV website are screaming for a Harper majority……I agree…what an excellent job by the govt in such a short period of time….
[...] great article to start with might be Garth Should Stay Home, the most recent post on the site which addresses the town hall meeting going on in Owen Sound [...]
Couple of holes along 8,000 km border. Good ground work men!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070927/border_danger_070927/20070927?hub=TopStories
James- Chatham. You raise some interesting points. My point about the flat tax being science fiction is as follows:
The principle “benefit” of a flat tax by its proponents is simplicity. But this is a bogus argument. All of the complexity in the tax act is due to the deduction, credit and definition of income. The actual sections dealing with the “graduated” tax rate are quite simple (only 3 rates). So simply replacing 3 rates with one does nothing to simplify the tax system. The complexity is their b/c it’s the only way to ensure that people don’t “deduct” their “incomes” to nothing in order to avoid taxes. Each tax rule is the result of some accountants scheme to avoid paying taxes.
BARE FACT: (A)Governments need money to operate (Afghanistan is costing billions), and (B) we have to provide this money. If you want lower taxes, then do one (or more) of the following:
A – Cut spending (good luck with that…try cutting the military or health care and see how far you get).
B – Increase overall employment – the more money people make, the more tax revenue, and the lower the tax rate has to be to generate that revenue.
Practically (and ethically too), B is the only way to go.
So, tell me again why the CONS had to decimated Income Trusts.
By Reg on 09.27.07 4:07 pm
Because they are in the process of “harmonizing” Canada with the US
-economically (IT tax, convergence in tariff rates, removal of “trade barriers” between provinces)
- environmentally (North American solution to the climate crisis, higher pesticide limits on food)
-socially (immigration policy, voter supression, privatization), and
-militarly (purchase of armed medium icebreakers, new figher jets).
ITs were just the beginning. There’ll be more unexplainable broken promises to come, too.
-R
Garth, Why of course they want you to stay home. They are just about to get their petards kicked into reality.
As I sat waiting for my doctor’s appointment his afternoon I perused the new (October 8, 2007) edition of McLeans. The following story is in there and well worth reading by everyone, except those who insist on the Blue Kool-Aide of Harper’s Drug of Choice!
Stupid to the Last Drop: How Alberta Is Bringing Environmental Armageddon to Canada (And Doesn’t Seem to Care)
When you read the McLean’s article, and look at the vastness of this environmental disaster, willfully made by the Alberta and federal governments you will wonder if there still are any Canadian values.
I imagine your Lost Tory Tour caused them another major headache. They are far too arrogant and narcissitic to be embarassed.
By Captain George on 09.27.07 4:55 pm
At least Harper got something right for a change when he told the U.S., at the CFR meeting, their side of the border is THEIR responsibility, not Canada’s Duh…Well no sh-t Sherlock!
We are only responsible for OUR side, and, as we don’t go around the globe pissing people off, except some Afghani’s yesterday, we do not have a terrorist threat. We do occassionally have a tourorist threat however. Gun totaling Americans who think they can behave here as they do in the U.S..
BTW, the OPP arrested two Quebecers up this way who think they can import drugs and make a profit. They are sitting in jail and no bail is likely to be granted. I am just waiting to hear them claim some BS about being from a ‘nation within a nation’! Yeah, well, they are now in jail cells with THIS nation.
Quebec men face series of drug charges
“Chretien and Martin inherited Mulroney’s legacy of the GST and Free Trade, which is what largely enabled them to begin paring down the national debt.”
And thus began the teaching of Boss Harp and his little pet troll Flaherty, the lessons of fiscal dicipline.
Unfortunately, like everything else they have attempted Boss Harp again failed.
Larry Miller you sound like a lazy ass! You haven’t had a town hall because you haven’t been asked??????? If you really cared about your constituents like Garth does you would proactively hold such events. But…oh yes….Stevie wouldn’t want you to actually talk to voters and find out what they think…and he certainly wouldn’t want you to tell anyone about it.
Larry Miller – if you read this blog – you would know that Garth has REGULAR town halls with folks in his riding, which Garth proactively schedules. He doesn’t hide in the bushes like you do and make LAME excuses about not being asked to hold a town hall. I wish we had an MP like Garth in our riding! Instead we have Dean Allison…just another Conservative talking head for Harpo.
All of the complexity in the tax act is due to the deduction, credit and definition of income. The actual sections dealing with the “graduated†tax rate are quite simple (only 3 rates). – By Elias on 09.27.07 5:00 pm
Agreed. That’s why the whole tax act would need to be overhauled and its well past time. But the basic principle of deductions is this and should remain: if you need to spend additional money once you get to your place of employment to earn an income, then it should be deductible. Essentially the same as a business that deducts expense from revenue to come up with income.
BTW. The last time I looked there are 4 rates.(15.5,22,26,29) There used to be three which validates my point about the “progressive” system being arbitary.
To the person who accused me of being on the CPC payroll because I have booked politicians for speaking events:
You are WRONG. I am a VOLUNTEER for various SERVICE groups, many involved with the disabled, new Canadians, poverty and seniors.
That is why I know FOR A FACT that our MPs come out to speak to and answer questions of the people.
WE INVITE THEM. I have been part of helping juggle various groups meeting agendas with the schedules of MPs, MLAs, aldermen, school board trustees, etc. I have also been part of promoting their attendance and at times chairing the events for the introductions and questions and answers.
I have never denied being a Conservative supporter – as a member of the public. I also riped up my membership card of the old Federal Progressive Conservatives (Garth’s old party) under Mulroney and embraced the reform party principals under Preston Manning.
I have never claimed to be anything BUT a conservative minded Canadian.
Nobody has to pay me to be concerned and involved with my country’s politics.I am one of those “poor old retirees” that Garth claims to speak for.
Seems people over at CTV website are screaming for a Harper majority……I agree…what an excellent job by the govt in such a short period of time….
By John G on 09.27.07 4:43 pm
John, this is the gov’t that predicted 3.6 billion surplus and comes in with a 14 billion, this same government, when in opposition, used to rail at Martin when he came in two billion over his predictions, isn’t it wonderful they are going to give us back 750 million when they are overtaxing us by 14 billion, meanwhile municipalities are screaming for more funds…and you know where they are going to get them, don’t you John? Right from the taxpayer, so the $30.00 you are going to get from the Feds, you will be asked to pay 4 times that to your municipality, net loss $90.00….yep John, they did a bang up job…rape the taxpayer, then throw him/her a small bone and say, aren’t we wonderful…not buying it John and either is anybody else except blinds Cons.
$13.2 Billion surplus vs. $9.8Billion budgetted. Pretty good. Except when Mr. Martin did that, the Cons. raked him over the coals for being “conservative” in his budgetting and for over taxing Canadians.
And Mr. Harper said the CPC were different! Nope, just another Liberal idea being used by the Cons.
Hmmmm, didn’t the Liberals accuse Stephen Harper of leading us into deficits. Seems the Liberals are talking out of their behinds and haven’t got a clue.
By Catherine on 09.27.07 4:32 pm
Wait another couple of years when all HArpers promises kick in.His government is still benefiting from years of liberal rule.
Catherine: the Liberals accused Harper (Harpo) of outspending any government in Canadian history and increasing government spending more than any other government in Canadian history. THEY WERE RIGHT.
As for the 14 billions surplus…sorry, Liberals have been there, and done that…for nearly a decade before Harpo came along. Harpers just riding their coat tails.
By the way…check out the CON math…they over tax us by 14 billion – and our reward, $750 million in tax savings. Wow….only a tax sucking CPC pickpocket like Catherine can get excited about that.
Seems people over at CTV website are screaming for a Harper majority……I agree…what an excellent job by the govt in such a short period of time….
By John G on 09.27.07 4:43 pm
No offence John, but even a scamming Liberal Government was able to post surplus’ for several consecutive years. Heck, the Libs even turned around deficit spending and paid down debt (go figure). If a ‘Conservative’ government couldn’t follow up with suplus tax dollars, more than eyebrows would be raised.
Its not enough to make me forget the loss of ‘accountability, transparency, honesty etc.’ that I was promised in the last election.
I can see no reason for anyone to start declaring ‘Harper Party Majority’. There’s alot of smoke, mirrors, fog, blacked-out pages and muzzled MPs to clear up before my vote goes back to blue.
… where have all the PC poeple gone anyhow?…
By Elias on 09.27.07 2:23 pm
FACT: You don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about. Are you on crack? Leasa
I’ve only read about 6-8 of the first posts and all of them are from con trolls.
Gees – when are any of your MP’s going to hold TH meetings and let all people – rather than those your Pm has designated to ask questions. No – didn’t think so.
Seems you like to trash Garth, but would one of you debate him in person. Doubt it, as you can only repeat what your dear leader and his controllers have published in their playbook. You guys & gals really are a sad lot – not an ounce of original thought.
Not sure why old bitter Brian would think Harper is another Reagan.
Perhaps a 1990s Reagan who in latter years suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. As in ‘I forgot about that promise to tax trusts – it slipped my mind’
As far as Harper’s movie star appeal, if there is a role for overweight power-drunk actors with an icy personality then he fits the bill perfectly.
If Mulroney strengthened Alberta by killing the National Energy Program then how is Harper helping Alberta by killing Oil and Gas Royalty Trusts??
_____________________________________________
Reagan-like Harper praised by Mulroney
Tony Seskus
Calgary Herald
Thursday, September 27, 2007
Former prime minister Brian Mulroney says current Tory PM Stephen Harper reminds him of the Gipper, Ronald Reagan.
“Of all the people I’ve met internationally, he reminds me more of the style and the approach and the decisiveness of Ronald Reagan than anybody else,” Mulroney told a Calgary luncheon audience Wednesday.
“He’s been a terrific prime minister and I can tell you that this government is off to a better start than any other government in my lifetime.”
Reagan, who died in 2004 at the age of 93, is fondly remembered by conservatives as the folksy Republican leader who slashed taxes, fought communism and won back-to-back presidential races the 1980s.
But critics note Reagan ran huge deficits by cutting taxes as he hiked military spending, and was president during the infamous Iran-Contra affair, where arms were illegally sold to Iran to fund anti-communist rebels in Nicaragua.
Mulroney, 68, who enjoyed a close friendship with the former Hollywood actor, clearly intended Wednesday’s remarks as a compliment to Harper, describing the current PM as “highly competent, singularly effective (and) decisive” with a good sense of humour.
David Taras, a political analyst at the University of Calgary, said there are comparisons to be made between Harper and Reagan.
The Reagan administration strictly controlled political messaging, believed in small government and was known for its conservative backbone — all of which could apply to Harper, Taras said.
But Harper has yet to display the charm of Reagan, whose informal style endeared him to many Americans.
“He certainly doesn’t have that movie-star glow,” Taras said. “I can’t see Harper as a leading man in anyone’s movie.”
Mulroney, who was in the city to promote his autobiography, also defended his government’s record.
Serving as Canada’s 18th prime minister from 1984 to 1993, Mulroney said his government’s formula of free trade and spending cuts helped lift Canada out of the recession-plagued 1980s and pushed it toward the robust economy of today.
Speaking of his government’s legacy in Alberta, he noted his Progressive Conservative government eliminated the National Energy Program and believed that “by strengthening Alberta, we strengthened Canada.”
tseskus@theherald.canwest.com
“Both promised that those savings would result in cuts to personal income taxes for Canadians.”
By John G…
And we all know how faithful they both have been on their promises, like most politicians!
Conservatives… fixing liberal ideas so they actually work.
By William Macdonell on 09.27.07 2:08 pm
LOFL – Wee little Willy – more like stealing Libs ideas.
Reminiscent of a slow, sinking Titanic.
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/economy-sends-off-warning-flares/n20070925165909990052
I think Miller could take Garth easily. Garth Turner should be very afraid of Larry Miller.
Garth scared of Larry?09.27.07 1:02 pm
And who might you be, my little lady?
It looks to me like Miller would have great difficulty looking back over his shoulder. Does he have a â€taster†in Ottawa, or does he just plough right on in? It does seem, the mark of GREATNESS among politicians in the southern Ontario region, is to have Michael Coren
comment on their greatness and girth.
A man of SUBSTANCE, without a doubt. A man of intellect … extremely doubtful.
â€Nobody has asked me to hold a meeting†Oh well, we know a phonebooth would be an unsuitable venue, less’n he wants to be his own captive audience.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 09.27.07 2:33 pm
Oh PP – I wish I had your gift with the mind & tongue. Precious. Go Garth. At least he’s one MP that has the guts to host a blog and allow neocon wingnuts to post, unlike most con bloggers.
A different take on right-wing warnuts or fruitcakes.
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/15882/index.php
To Marc – re: comments on pudgy MPs.
Odd that you only singled out three females – one from each political party. That speaks volumes to me – and BTW – shame on you.
It really is amazing when dead people show up on cue to cause more trouble!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21000298/
Because they are in the process of “harmonizing†Canada with the US
By Rob Wiebe on 09.27.07 5:07 pm
Uh huh…. so you want Canadians to be “harmonizing” with China? Sheesh.
Me thinks your tin foil dome is misfiring.
Elias, what you conveniently forget is that Brian Mulroney inherited a legacy from Pierre Elliot Trudeau in which there were automatic increases in pension cheques and social programs instituted during the Trudeau years that the government could ill afford during the 1980’s.
When Brian Mulroney made the slightest attempt to cut back on the social programs, such as to cut back even 3% of the INCREASE (not on the pension, but on the increase) of senior citizen’s pensions, all hell broke loose, and he was forced to renege.
He inherited all of those social programs, and once those programs are instituted, especially those increases in the pension cheques, any government will tamper with that to its peril.
So now this new government is accused of overspending in order to maintain Medicare and other social programs that Canadians want, but nobody will say which program they should cut back on. They know very well that society is comprized of many interest groups, and nobody is willing to really make a sacrifice that would change their lifestyle..
Many senior citizens are very well to do, and could well afford to have a 3% cut-back on their pension cheque’s annual increase, but they would have none of it, and publicly chastised Brian Mulroney for even thinking of doing so, just like Jack Layton chastized PMSH today for puting the surplus into debt reduction and not spending even more.
So governments are damned if they spend, and they are dammed when they use a huge surplus for debt reduction instead of spending more. How are you going to please a people like that if you are damned both ways?
The number one responsibility of governments is to protect human lives, and make their nation a safe place for families to flourish. That requires a police force locally, and a military nationally and internationally.
Those like Jack Layton who would say that the best way to save money that could be spent on more social programs would be to get out of Afghanistan immediately have used the argument, like Trudeau did, that “we know damn well that the U. S. will protect us if we ever get attacked.” That was his justification for a weak military.
Yet the U. S. and its government has become publicly enemy number one to many Canadians, so I am not so sure that we can count upon the U. S. anymore to protect us. We just may have to do it ourselves.
CRAP even IF Garth was using taxpayers money it would be money well spent as opposed to a loser like Miller costing taxpayers for his office yet doing NOTHING.
Garth the only thing that disappoints me is that HARPER’s internal polling shows him with a majority…but he won’t come out and say that as it would change the voting behaviour of folks like me that would rather vote Green because we are fed up with the normal political bs.
Global National pointed out tonight that the interest saved would amount to the following massive refund to all Canadian Taxpayers.
1. A McMeal for a family of four.
2. A low cost video game
But the real hidden secret is that $32 will get you a 24 of cheap beer at the LCBO. Now, we wait for the munchies of a bag, medium of course, of popcorn with the next 1% reduction ion the GST.
Yes Sir canada, harper is ready to deliver, again, on his beer and popcorn economics. Vat a country!
I can hardly wait for the exciting revelations in his imminent Throne Speech. Best delivered from the upstairs Throne at 24 Sucksit Drive.
Uh huh…. so you want Canadians to be “harmonizing†with China? Sheesh.
Me thinks your tin foil dome is misfiring.
By Catherine on 09.27.07 7:51 pm
Canada doesn’t require harmonizing with any country. Canada should be reviewing offers. No doubt we are, but there’s NO TRANSPARENCY about the transaction.
Those like Jack Layton who would say that the best way to save money that could be spent on more social programs would be to get out of Afghanistan immediately have used the argument, like Trudeau did, that “we know damn well that the U. S. will protect us if we ever get attacked.†That was his justification for a weak military.
By Ike on 09.27.07 8:47 pm
Our military is still underfunded. Buying obsolete subs or shiny big lift capability or leasing leopard tank security doesn’t provide an improved home life for a Candian Military Family.
By Transcanada on 09.27.07 7:14 pm
That’s a long kinda post dude.
Uh huh…. so you want Canadians to be “harmonizing†with China? Sheesh.
Me thinks your tin foil dome is misfiring.
By Catherine on 09.27.07 7:51 pm
Nope Catherine, I want the USA to harmonize with Canada. I think they need to raise their standards, just like I think you need to raise yours.
Speaking of which, want to go for a coffee sometime? I look good in tinfoil.
-R
The above excerpt is from an article in the Toronto Star. So, tell me again why the CONS had to decimated Income Trusts.
They are either downright stupid, or outright liars. In either case, they deserver to be tossed out of office asap. Bring on the election!!
By Reg on 09.27.07 4:07 pm
I would say PMSH’s government are both, downright stupid & outright liars. Those I really feel sorry for are the Con trolls who have been brainwashed to the point that they have their heads so deep in the sand that the only thing showing is their butts.
I agree with you 100%. This government needs to be tossed out pronto.
Ike; Harper lied, again. Said running a surplus meant Canadians were being over-taxed. Said he would not over tax Canadians. So what does he do? Overtaxes us to the tune of 14 billion and then has the gall to tell us he is using the 750 million saved on interest payments to give us a tax break??? Why not go ahead and use the 750 million to pay down the debt some more?
He has no interest in helping the average Canadian with anything.
He rakes other parties over the coals for behaviours that he engages in.
The man is becoming pathological-I guess he just can’t help it.
… where have all the PC poeple gone anyhow?…
By David M on 09.27.07 6:59 pm
I think a lot of us are sitting out here in no-man’s land where no one listens to us as usual!!
Many senior citizens are very well to do, and could well afford to have a 3% cut-back on their pension cheque’s annual increase, but they would have none of it, and publicly chastised Brian Mulroney for even thinking of doing so, just like Jack Layton chastized PMSH today for puting the surplus into debt reduction and not spending even more.
So governments are damned if they spend, and they are dammed when they use a huge surplus for debt reduction instead of spending more. How are you going to please a people like that if you are damned both ways?
By Ike on 09.27.07 8:
Lower Income Tax?
Are your Geezer ears tingling yet?
Creative Accounting – how the baseball bat got replaced by long term floating rate notes. The debt just floats away.
It get prestodigitized!
Canadian Commercial Paper Investors Seek Extension (Update3)
By Frederic Tomesco
Ima takin lessons for when the bill collectors come calling…”Hep me, hep me, give me yet another extension…I know I was supposed to pay for the Flat Screen last year, but circumstances have changed. Maybe we form a committee?
Mayber we can float the bill on a ten year loan to a bunch of grannies?”
Anybody checked the price of wheat lately? Limit Up!
Ah, but PJW, did you not hear that Harper said his government wasn’t guilty of the same thing?:
“We were very critical of budget estimates that we thought were flagrantly untrue, deliberately underestimated. That’s not been the case with this government. We have worked carefully to produce the best estimates possible.”
I guess his we thought trumps the we thought’s of all others, so must be true. Fair and Balanced, and all that..
Oil giants taking Canada to court
They claim that NAFTA is being violated and are suing for 50 million. And that’s just the start. Maybe you better not buy htat case of beer yet with your Tax refund.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/
Why does Harper make the announcement?
Its a finance moment…
I think I’ve seen Harper do this before…
It really is amazing when dead people show up on cue to cause more trouble!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21000298/
By Charles Oxley on 09.27.07 7:42 pm
Hey, ya know what? Tom Long [part of the Harris inner circle] had a similar experience when he was running for the leadership of the Conservative Reform Alliance Party. [C.R.A.P.] In his case he was able to attract a whole lot of deceased [potential] voters from a graveyard in the remote Gaspésie region.
It was then I thought he had acquired the same sort of mackerel powers as Benny Hinn. Kinda brings a whole new meaning to the term PHISHING, don’t it!
Since C.R.A.P. discovered I learned to speak English ”phonically” they don’t call me any more.
James wrote.
>And Mr. Harper said the CPC were >different! Nope, just another Liberal >idea being used by the Cons.
It is payback time for all the ideas the Liberals stole from the Reform. I recall the Liberals accused them of whining. Look who is whining now.
. Hel the Liberals should be honoured to have the ideas that happen to be good to be used by the Con government. After all isn’t one the objective is to have your parties plan implemented. I happen to think that it doesn’t matter which party or government implements them as long as they are implemented. I said that when the reform ideas were used by the Liberals and I say it now when the Conservatives use the Liberals ideas.
So I say to me Liberals friends, Get over it. That is what politics is about. No party is above using another’s ideas or plans.
PJW…complain about his spending too much..now..complain about excess surplus…I recognize that these are tough times for Harper haters….arguments have become totally non sensical however..get used to it…like I said before, he can run my company anytime….
I can hardly wait for the exciting revelations in his imminent Throne Speech. Best delivered from the upstairs Throne at 24 Sucksit Drive.
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.27.07 9:38 pm
Yet another brilliant comment there Willy….that’s what you get for hanging out at Wal-mart I suppose…lol
“Why not go ahead and use the 750 million to pay down the debt some more?”-Judy
Because he made a promise….he stated all savings from debt reduction will go to tax reduction….where have you been for the last 18 months….
Simple question….do any of you bonafide Harper haters ever research or have the facts before you spew? Ever?
I know Garth’s blog doesn’t cover science overall, but could there be any intelligent life out there?
There sure as hell ain’t much down here!
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyid=2007-09-27T212009Z_01_N27418001_RTRUKOC_0_US-SPACE-BURST.xml
Don’t you get that sinking feeling on the Liberal Titanic just about now?
Michael Ignatieff, Denis Coderre, Robert Fragasso, Marie Poulin, Pablo Rodriguez — all openly attacking Stephane Dion’s judgment in allowing Jamie Carroll to remain in his role as national director.
Meanwhile you Garth attempting to just sail over the fray. Smart politics for a newbie Liberal !!
I’ve got more important stuff to do. Ahoy! — Garth
If I’m not mistaken the red duffel bags were smuggled as a test for American security. Just speculating, but more than likely the American customs agents figured they were Canadian hockey players and they had hockey sticks in the bags! Great disguise by the way on the part of the GOP! Looks to me like the GOP are upset because they’ve spent thousands of dollars with no improvements realized. Wouldn’t you think the United States would twig on that throwing money, men and materials at problems and losing civil rights in the process isn’t worth the cost? Homeland Security, a monstrous-sized duplicate bureaucracy keeps failing over and over again.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/261232
So Stevie and Flim Flam are going to give me back $32 after stealing almost $400 from me in 2006.
What a great “new” government we serve.
Couple of holes along 8,000 km border. Good ground work men!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070927/border_danger_070927/20070927?hub=TopStories
By Captain George on 09.27.07 4:55 pm
Interesting read Captain,
Stockboy is full of BS once again tho. It has nothing to do with what the US Senators are pissed about. In the article he boasts:
Day said that in the last 19 months, Canada has put $431 million towards improving infrastructure at border points and $19.5 million to expanding integrated border teams, hiring 400 officers.
He may have spent 19.5 mil on hiring 400 officers, I’m not sure about that, but it was January this year that he made the big $431 mil announcement.
Note that he goes on about keeping us all safe and healthy when it’s really an SPP deal to keep corporations and business and trade safe and healthy. Not people, not Canadian citizens.
And it certainly does not fill in any gaps in our shared border,
National, 12 January 2007. News Release
The Honourable Stockwell Day, Minister of Public Safety, today announced an investment of $431.6M over five years to reinforce smart, secure borders. This funding will allow three key initiatives under the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) – eManifest, Business Resumption and Partners in Protection – to move forward.Â
“Canada’s New Government is taking action to keep Canadians safe from potential security and health threats, while ensuring the smooth flow of trade across our borders,†said Minister Day. †This significant investment is testimony that our government is moving forward and working with the business community on key programs to increase security and support economic prosperity.â€
“Ensuring that the Canada-U.S. border functions well is vital for Canadian industry. That is why The Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters (CME) is pleased that the Government of Canada is supporting these critical initiatives,†said Perrin Beatty, President and Chief Executive Officer of CME. “We look forward in particular to working in partnership with the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to successfully implement eManifest – an important undertaking that will further streamline cross-border trade, lead to greater harmonization between Canada and U.S. processes, and bring increased predictability to the transborder trade environment.â€
The $396M investment for eManifest will provide the CBSA with electronic data that allows for 100 percent automated risk assessment before shipments reach the border. Highway and rail carriers will be required to submit electronically and pre-arrival all cargo, crew and conveyance information. This will allow the CBSA to have the right information at the right time in order to make informed decisions.
An investment of $24M will allow the CBSA to further harmonize and strengthen its business resumption planning with the United States so that trade keeps moving across the border in the event of an emergency. The CBSA will continue to work with its partners to conduct exercises and develop protocols to ensure it has an appropriate coordinated response that would minimize the impact on business in the event of an incident at the border.
Finally, border security will be further enhanced with an investment of $11.6M to strengthen the Partners in Protection (PIP) program. PIP is an initiative that enlists the cooperation of private industry and is designed to enhance border security by combating organized crime and terrorism, and helping to detect and prevent contraband smuggling. The PIP program will expand to maximize benefits for members and become harmonized with a similar program in the United States called the Customs-Trade Partnership Against Terrorism.
Then, I was curious who had put this thing together, this independent Government Accountability Office and this Partnership for Global Security? Who were they? Turns out they are both US gov. outfits. PGS is like a standing committee that has the Gov Accountability guys check on things for them. And The PGS is made up of US Senators who don’t know diddly about anything except what they boned up on just prior to the meeting and what they learn from the witnesses.
(And there are people who think that an elected senate is the way to go…watch these guys in action, it’s painful.)
It’s a long video, about 1hr 20 min, but it’s fascinating peek into how the Americans do it and interesting to compare how the same information is covered by our papers (poorly, they are not outraged, at least not at us) and how our leaders respond (even more poorly with a lie on top!).
Border Insecurity, Take Three: Open and Unmonitored
under this title it says:To view this hearing click here.
http://www.senate.gov/~finance/sitepages/hearings.htm
Our papers are so full of it, hell all of our media is!
Geo
Ike; Harper lied, again. Said running a surplus meant Canadians were being over-taxed. Said he would not over tax Canadians. So what does he do? Overtaxes us to the tune of 14 billion and then has the gall to tell us he is using the 750 million saved on interest payments to give us a tax break??? Why not go ahead and use the 750 million to pay down the debt some more?
He has no interest in helping the average Canadian with anything.
He rakes other parties over the coals for behaviours that he engages in.
The man is becoming pathological-I guess he just can’t help it.
By Judy on 09.27.07 10:16 pm
I know it’s hard for Liberals to research facts and when someone presents them with facts, they simply ignore them and try to spin and spin and spin. Having said that Judy, here is the link that you may want to access.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2007/AFR2007_e.html
Revenues were up and expenditures were up.
Have a read – it may be mean that you may have to eat some crow.
Love the taste of neo-Con Kool-aid in the morning. Its the taste of – deperation!
It is payback time for all the ideas the Liberals stole from the Reform. I recall the Liberals accused them of whining. No party is above using another’s ideas or plans.
By Van on 09.27.07 11:25 pm
It was the Refooooorrrrrmmmmm that were doing the belly aching about Mr. Martin’s conservative budgetting, about the hugh surpluses being used to pay down debt and not providing immediate tax relief.
But your right, a good idea is a good idea regardless of which party uses it.
Just the Libs used it first. Pity PMSH can’t admit they did something right!
Because he made a promise….
By John G on 09.28.07 12:02 am
Like that’s stopped him before.
As I sat waiting for my doctor’s appointment this afternoon
Bill-Muskoka on 09.27.07 6:10 pm
I wish you good luck with this brain transplant Billy boy. The first one obviously wasn’t successful. If this transplant is successful please pass the name of your doctor along to PP, SLG, pjw, PP and other lieberals, they could all do with a change of scenery.
Catherine: Untill you get a real job and pay taxes like the rest of us, as opposed to sucking off the public teat with both front feet in the public trough, dont whine about taxes or government spending. Trying pulling your own weight for a change. After all, the extra taxes I have to pay in order to support you would be enough to put both my children through university.
Actually Herb, it is time to pay the piper. All of the expensive pet projects of past governments which ran deficits (think mulroney, turdeau) have come home to roost.
So roughly 30% of the taxes that Ottawa collects goes to investors to pay the interest charges. And even at today’s low interest rates, interest on about $470 billion is ALOT.
So we are being overtaxed! Yup. But that is the price that we have to pay in order to pay for past spending stupidities.
If I had my way, we’d pay the debt down faster (not by raising taxes – but by cutting more spending on unnecessary and intrusive programs into provincial jurisdiction) and then once all of the debt is paid, the interest savings can be applied to a) tax relief for sure b) necessary increased spending (notice, I said necessary) c) in the transfer of tax credits between the feds and provinces (meaning reduction federal tax rates and correlated (if wanted or needed) increases in provincial rates) to allow provinces to fund their programs.
I know that won’t happen since harper (or any government) would be ridiculed as being uncaring and mean by paying down the national debt and funding some other socialist-type that won’t do a thing but result in some well-paid government employees.
But what else is a society to do when we have this huge burden left on us by a group of self-serving, selfish citizens who now cry foul about tax cuts, not wanting to pay for the costs of programs that were put in place to ‘help’ this same group of people in the past. A sad situation indeed.
Ed the Hun
Oh that should read:
I know that won’t happen since harper (or any government) would be ridiculed as being uncaring and mean by paying down the national debt and NOT funding some other socialist-type…
instead of what I wrote.
Ed the Hun
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.28.07 7:47 am
Once again you err…I am not a Liberal, I voted CPC in the last election, an error I will not make again…
PJW…complain about his spending too much..now..complain about excess surplus…I recognize that these are tough times for Harper haters….arguments have become totally non sensical however..get used to it…like I said before, he can run my company anytime….
By John G on 09.27.07 11:44 pm
It was Mr. Harper who was railing against the low balling of surpluses in the House when he was opposition leader. Try to get your facts straight!
Also I am not a Harper hater, I do think he is a despicable human being but as for hate, not worth the expended emotional energy.
I think a lot of us are sitting out here in no-man’s land where no one listens to us as usual!!
By C. B. Innes on 09.27.07 10:20 pm
I suggest the Greens for a party that is as close to REAL PC as one can find nowadays. I can understand your angst. There are many sitting in the centre, and find the other parties are so much alike, and yet so worthless, they are very frustrated.
BTW, ever notice how it is always the same BS. ‘If elected’; ‘We allocated…’; ‘We have funded over the next yada, yada, yada years’; We will…’
Never do they say ‘We have accomplished this…’, and then clearly stated how things have improved.
I am so tired of being lied to I am furious with all of them.
LMAO! Our media has become dumber than the U.S. The American agents snuck into…Get this The U.S.. Duh! Congrats to them, They have just proven to the morons in the U.S. Congress that the U.S. border security is a joke.
They, U.S. agents, snuck INTO the U.S. from Canada, and it is Canada’s fault? Give their heads a shake…preferably with a Louisville Slugger.
Hunter Thompson is definitely laughing his ass off on this one. Yeppers, it has finally gotten wierd enough, even for old Hunter S.
I know that won’t happen since harper (or any government) would be ridiculed as being uncaring and mean by paying down the national debt and NOT funding some other socialist-type…
Ed the Hun
By Ed the Hun on 09.28.07 8:29 am
Most people do not have a problem with paying down debt. The problem is the hypocrisy of the principle of “do as I say, not as I do.”
Claiming that he had to put a huge new tax on income trusts or raising income tax on low incomes to pay for “his” new politics while posting a huge surplus seems to highly hypocritical. The GST tax cut is a cut for the affluent.
I notice that the affluent consider tax cuts or any program for anyone but themselves as “socialist.”
y THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.28.07 7:47 am
Once again you err…I am not a Liberal, I voted CPC in the last election, an error I will not make again…
By pjw on 09.28.07 9:08 am
Who the heck do you think you are fooling? Why would anyone believe how you voted last election? Not me. Frankly, I could give a rats ass how you voted. Deny, deny, very typical.
Ike, a few facts to round out your recent post.
FACT: Brian Mulroney DOUBLED THE NATIONAL DEBT in just 8 years.
FACT: Brian Mulroney claimed (and all the right wing economists agreed) that the GST was REVENUE NEUTRAL – i.e. it raised no more revenue than the tax the GST replaced.
FACT: The free trade agreement cost hundreds of thousands of Canadian jobs and put the country into a deep recession. The turnaround which occurred during Chretien’s term was largely the result of improved monetary policy, not free trade, since the vast majority of trade which occurred were in areas largely unaffected by the trade agreement (autos for example).
FACT: The Liberals under Chretein cut spending more than any other government in Canadian History, resulting in budget surpluses.
FACT: Harper has drastically and massively increased government spending since taking power. Harper has outspent every government in Canadian History by a wide margin.
FACT: Given their track record, its clear that nobody can spend money like neoCONs. The CPC spends OUR money like a bunch of NDPer’s on crack.
FACT:
By Elias on 09.27.07 2:23 pm
Elias, Elias, your facts are highly suspect. I’ll just disprove a couple at this time.
The surplus that Chretien had were mainly attributed to the overtaxing that government did. Just look at any AG report. You seem to forget the Liberals stealing Canadians’ pension surplus.
Chretien approved of Free Trade as well as the GST and then lied to Canadians that he was going to get rid of the GST to get elected. Yes Mulroney implemented the 2 and yes, he was wrong to do so, but don’t be so partisan that you can’t see what the Liberals did as well.
Lastly, your last sentence about the NDP is redundant.
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.28.07 10:04 am
Do I really care if you believe it or not? Just your careless accusations I was trying to correct, but you are such a small minded person, you wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked you in the face. Oh by the way, since you care so much how I vote, I voted Green in the advance poll in the Ontario election. You see, I don’t vote for proven liar like you do!
Ah, yes my medical appointment. I went in to be a donor for the CPC. I gave up a very small syrings of my brain in order that they may be able to function normally.
The tiny little 1 cubic millimetre should be sufficient to bring the entire Death Star Troll Patrol to an IQ level of 100.
Hope you are on Steve’s list In The Dark. What? Steve doesn’t know who you are? Well, keep trying, someday someone will recognize you as having potential for something. Now get back to cleaning the toilets. They are so full of CRAP there it is an environmental and biological hazard.
You don’t Dubya thinking you have WMD’s, cause he might just mis-direct a B-52 on your sorry arse.
By Ed the Hun on 09.28.07 8:26 am
Ed – for once, I agree with everything in your post.
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.28.07 10:04 am
Do I really care if you believe it or not? Just your careless accusations I was trying to correct, but you are such a small minded person, you wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked you in the face. Oh by the way, since you care so much how I vote, I voted Green in the advance poll in the Ontario election. You see, I don’t vote for proven liar like you do!
By pjw on 09.28.07 10:22 am
A little short on reading comprehension eh?? Read my post again about how much I care how you vote. Remember what I said, “Frankly I could give a rats ass how you vote”. Ding dong, get it now? I figure you are a lieberal because you always know how everyone thinks, all mind readers. Now the GREENS are thinking the same way, must be Lizzie’s influence. Barnum & Bailey circus would probably give you a job in the mind reading department. Furthermore you have no idea how I vote. You are a marvel in your own right pjw.
Furthermore you have no idea how I vote. You are a marvel in your own right pjw.
By THE SHADOW KNOWS on 09.28.07 1:39 pm
Anyone without faculties such as yourself has only one way to go, it’s a perfect fit…someone to think for you!
Ah, yes my medical appointment. I went in to be a donor for the CPC. I gave up a very small syrings of my brain in order that they may be able to function normally.
The tiny little 1 cubic millimetre should be sufficient to bring the entire Death Star Troll Patrol to an IQ level of 100.
Hope you are on Steve’s list In The Dark. What? Steve doesn’t know who you are? Well, keep trying, someday someone will recognize you as having potential for something. Now get back to cleaning the toilets. They are so full of CRAP there it is an environmental and biological hazard.
You don’t Dubya thinking you have WMD’s, cause he might just mis-direct a B-52 on your sorry arse.
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.28.07 10:30 am
And to think, this is probably the best liberal posting of the day.
Pure venom and no substance. Typical.
Ed the Hun,
don’t be shocked, but I agree with your 8:26 AM. It’s just taken a bit of time to get some thoughts together.
The only wrinkle in what you say is that you do not go far enough. We got into overspending by having unwarranted bills passed to the general taxpayer for payment.
The Royal Road to political power is simple: stroke your political base; look after your sector, friends and associates regardless of actual value or general expense; bribe the suckers with their own money, or imply a reduced financial drip if they don’t vote the right way. (As an example that may get me tarred and feathered, I cite multiculturalism, which struck me as nothing more than a vote-grab the Liberals needed badly in the ’70s. It worked and now is relied on by all parties, but it was and is expensive.)
In other words, what drives fiscal policy is not fiscal requirements, but extraneous considerations and factors that shape fiscal requirements. “Fear and favour” politics costs money.
I see no way of changing this until taxpayers themselves get smart and demand better. Some think that MMR will be the panacea, others have great expectations of the Greens. As I see it, the problem may not be the political process itself, but its “operators” – politicians and voters. And how do we change those, or at least how they operate?
Without engaging in forlorn hope in new parties or electoral systems, how about a basic legislative change? The courts have already told us that politicians can’t be sued for broken promises or poor performance because it is generally accepted that a politician’s word is not a binding promise or contract.
Well, make it one: give us a “Clarity in Politics” Act. A politician’s word should be his promise of performance, his contract with those who elect him. And if he does not abide by the promise or does not keep the contract, sue him in court, or better yet, bring out a new, short recall hook and get him off the stage. Can it be done? Yes. Would it work? Probably. Will it be done? Not likely, because too many politicians have a vested interest in continuing the status quo.
Digital democrats unite! We have nothing to lose but our current type of politicians!
The tiny little 1 cubic millimetre should be sufficient to bring the entire Death Star Troll Patrol to an IQ level of 100.
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.28.07 10:30 am
That was Marine brain matter(better known as GRUNT brain matter) and wasn’t worth a damn. Could only get an IQ level of 10. Sorry, you are a total reject.
Wow,
I can see the effect of the brain matter transplant already. Semi-lucid posts from two of the most deprived minds at the Death Star. What will be forthcoming next week? They will be waving their arms? Walking?
Wow,
I can see the effect of the brain matter transplant already. Semi-lucid posts from two of the most deprived minds at the Death Star. What will be forthcoming next week? They will be waving their arms? Walking?
By Bill-Muskoka on 09.29.07 8:15 pm
Well, our postings seem to be a few steps above your childish name-calling. Are you still hanging around schoolyards and taking notes of what the kids are saying?