The election now entering its last few days in Ontario has been instructive to me. Apart from being a political moth mesmerized by the dancing flame of democracy, I see some interesting trends and lessons in this one.
John Tory, for example, was never expected to flounder in this fashion. A long-time acquaintance, I’ve known John as a man of deep experience, boundless energy, integrity and lifetime accomplishment. He knows politics, media and business. The perfect crossover candidate for the TV age. And yet not only do the polls suggest he will lose to Dalton McGuinty, he will not likely even win a seat in the Leg.
Monday just about finished him off. Facing a revolt of uneasy caucus members and candidates fearing for their futures, he all but abandoned his pledge to fund faith-based schools, if premier. As I wrote here before, it was a dumb policy. The public is in no mood for social barriers and the breeding of cultural divisions. No matter that John would deny those things would result. That’s what voters think. This is a secular society, and guys running for office best understand that.
What matters now is that he’s seen as a man who reversed a strongly held view, in order to get elected. It’s a death sentence. Voters today are unforgiving. Chances are Monday’s conversion will deepen his loss, and that he’ll now leave politics having stood for nothing.
Mr. Tory, I gather, also did not easily listen to his candidates and MPPs, who quickly found the faith-based issue was a clunker. It took a quasi revolt, coming to a head in a conference call Monday morning, to move him. Bummer. I guess pride still proceedeth a fall.
One lesson here is that leadership is changing. Voters are not interested in politicians who pander to them for support any more than they are in tinpot dictators who won’t listen. In the Google age of self-empowerment, when people are more informed than any before them, and opinions are mined in digital caves like this one, leaders need to be strong and principled, but flexible and practical. There is no right answer to anything anymore. Just honest people unafraid to take on new knowledge.
One more thing, too. This is my first Canadian experience with a fixed election date. In theory, it looks like a great idea. On the ground, not so much.
Sure, we relegate campaigning, officially at least, to a shorter period of time and supposedly rid the system of uncertainty, giving a government more time to govern in a predictable environment. But we’re also asking for trouble.
Politicians in power tend to heavy up on good announcements that probably should have been made sooner. Bad news can easily be pushed off until after a well-known electoral date. The real campaigning – building lists, collecting donations, planning campaigns, booking buses and media, conducting focus groups and shooting TV spots – can start a year or two in advance of the vote. Suddenly it’s possible for parties, and their elected politicians, to count back from the moment of polling so that electioneering begins the day after the last trip to the ballot box. The constant campaign truly begins.
Here in Halton I watched closely as the local MPP some months ago started buying newspaper advertising, sending out householders, showing up at events and sniffing out cameras. He began harnessing the power of incumbency and all the media opportunities it brings. He spent two grand wrapping a van and has, I hear, a fancy campaign office. He’s even been knocking on doors. No doubt about it – the fixed election date has made him a better campaigner.
But, is that the goal? Or is it to have better representatives of the people?
I do note, however, that while the MPP of twelve years has honking big arterial signs in each ditch, park and cloverleaf, those of his opponent are sprouting everywhere on private lawns.
Perhaps he shall find, with Mr. Tory, the ground’s fallow for those who stand for nothing.
188 comments ↓
Wait, you thought the constant campaigning was a bit of a surprise? I thought we’d learned about what fixed election dates do from the US Presidential Elections. We’re seeing huge campaigns RIGHT NOW, and we’re quite a long way off from the ACTUAL election.
It always sounded like a bad idea to me. We don’t need fixed election dates, we just need a tighter reign on how often the government is allowed to stay in power in a majority situation.
Actually, we just need a better representative system all together. I hope the proportional representation system is accepted in Ontario. I’d like to see that precedent set, especially since I’m Albertan. We’re the most ill represented people in the country, especially on the provincial level.
So much for Outremont. I guess this means we’ll be getting Harper’s pansy version of the Throne Speech. Look’s good on all these neo-con losers.
I agree with Jan Goh at 11:30 pm regarding non-stop electioneering as in the USA. The constant media droning about each candidate must be stifling. I personally believe that we should not have gone to fixed election dates in Ontario – for basically the same reasons that Garth outlined. Too many announcements could be held to coincide with the election dates and, heaven help us if we start campaigning a year ahead of time. PMSH has already tried that with the negative Dion ads and everyone I spoke to about those commercials, to a person, found them to be a waste of time and money, not to mention being in poor taste. We need more policy discussion and ideas bandied about – and a lot less character assassination attempts.
. . . This is a secular society, . . .
Right on. I strongly prefer a federal government to have an atheistic view of running the affairs of Canada and focusing on the well-being of Canadians.
Spirituality and religion have their places in society — freedom of choice is one guarantee that each individal has down here — but never should either interfere with the running of our country.
Just to confuse the issue, this happens. One always has to remember though, that the higher one goes, the harder one falls.
Witness Conrad Black.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071001/wall_street.html?.v=36
“tinpot dictators who won’t listen.”
Garth: I don’t suppose you had Harper in mind in making this comment?
BTW Tin Pot was the brother of Pol Pot
Believe it or not, I’m still undecided – and it’s ALL YOUR FAULT, GARTH! You’ve spoiled me for candidates who seem well spoken and inoffensive, but really just parrot the party line and don’t seem to have an original thought in their heads.
Hmph.
Urgent.
Check this out.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=WOO20070927&articleId=6906
Is there anything about Canada that Harper wouldn’t change to be more American?
Fixed elections translate to much longer campaign periods. Makes advertisers rich and bores the hell out of the electorate so many may refuse to go the polls because now-a-days campaigns get ugly. More spontaneous election periods, on the other hand, mean shorter campaign periods. (But they too did not escape nasty rhetoric.) Canadian voters are sick and tired of vehemence and want to know what their governments stand for if elected. No wonder young people don’t vote given the present hostile milieu.
Why doesn’t Steve take out American citizenship and move there rather than change everything about Canada’s parliamentary procedures wrought from the loins of a monarchial system.
Perhaps he shall find, with Mr. Tory, the ground’s fallow for those who stand for nothing.
posted by Garth Turner on 10.01.07 @ 11:12 pm |
=============================================
Mr. Tory does stand for something, and it’s Mr. McGuinty who stands for nothing much other than tax and spend Liberal government, which Ontarians seem to prefer even if they are led by a proven prevaricator.
You can tax me, and lie and steal my money, but don’t you dare hurt my sacred feeeeelings !!!
‘morning Garth, I enjoyed the post. Thanks.
Just one question and one quick point:
The Question:
How much of Mr. Tory’s misfortunes have to do with his idea to fund faith based schools? And how much have to do with the fact that he is a conservative? I believe a few provinces provide such funding. Do Ontarians find it to be such a bad idea?
My Point
I agree with Jan Goh that fixed election dates are not a good idea. However, I would suggest that the tentativeness of a minority government is a good counterbalance against the advantage that a fixed election date brings. Also, I imagine that we will increasingly see minority situations until a party that people can connect with and totally trust steps up.
My C$0.02
-R
Garth:
Good overview, I was never for fixed election dates, nor an elected Senate, (same thing all over again), nor changes that are Canadian and more American! It’s not the system, “It’s the canidates Stupid” Garth would you not agree if we encouage our best and brightest to run who want to serve the people, the city, the towns and Canada then we would get the best. If we select less (like those who bend on their hands to knees to a (Dictator) then we get less?
What I want to know who is running in 2012 or 2016, south of border so I can tell my grandchilden there woeld will be safe…….yea right.
Speaking of US fixed dates, it appears votes can be obtained early nextn year to stop a War, Why…..fixed election dates, hello what changed?
The problem with Tory is twofold… he had no plan he is way to Liberal. Ernie Eves thought he would not be like Mike Harris and he got blown out and now this guy is trying to be a liberal as well. I have voted conservative all my life and this time I am not even sure if I will vote. This guy is just way to liberal.
The real question is….will you vote for the biggest liar in Canadian political history Dalton Mcguinty???? If so you can once again pull your hypocritcal foot out of your mouth….
Seems you must admire Mr Harper as a man of integrity who doesn’t bend to voters interests everyday….that or you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth again! Which is it?
Exactly 1 year ago today, a story announcing the cancellation of National Portrait Gallery was published; over the past few days, some interesting commentary regarding the new plans for the building have been emerging, the latest being yesterday at the Globe and Mail and Ottawa Citizen, questioning the prudence of proposal that would see the building converted into a new 26-person Prime Ministerial ‘meeting room’ (these articles are subsequent follow ups to the “Mr Big Pants” piece published last Thursday and the Globe’s take on the same from last Friday).
The best suggestion that I’ve read is for the building to be returned to it’s original intent — a National Portrait Gallery — wherein it would get regular use and not lie dormant so much of the time, and on those anomalous and punctuated occasions when dignitaries are in town, use it for private evening meetings against a backdrop of images highlighting Canada’s history. Such treasure would certainly make for great small talk and ice-breaking amongst the opening handshakes.
What matters now is that he’s seen as a man who reversed a strongly held view, in order to get elected. It’s a death sentence. Voters today are unforgiving. Chances are Monday’s conversion will deepen his loss, and that he’ll now leave politics having stood for nothing.
First, you dig a BIG HOLE. You then place ashes in the hole to a depth of approximately 18″ Then, you place a big piece of cheese in the hole. You then must get all your ”drivers” in place to move forward as part of a wave. They beat the drums, slowly at first, increasing the tempo gradually, until it’s very loud and you’re moving forward swiftly. When the elephant appears and hesitates at the periphery, you allow a displaced ‘defeatist’ Maritimer, of Slavic origin, who has lost big money in the Income Trust Promise, to rush forward vigorously to KICK THE ELEPHANT IN THE ASH-HOLE. You then pass out Edward Jones chewing gum to all … in case there are any leaky dams in the area … and have your three best tenors sing a rousing CANTO GREGORIO chant to recognize the Sadducees and the Pharisees. Lyrics please!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9gp1rnUbyQ
Hey, it works for me! But I don’t think ANYTHING is going to work for John Tory.
Canadian Press – ”Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory tried to assuage embittered party faithful..Tory (was) clearly worried about the optics of such a significant amendment to a policy he has staunchly defended (and) went to lengths to convince voters they should see the move not as a flip-flop or a sign of indecisiveness…”
Garth,
In the Google age of self-empowerment, when people are more informed than any before them, and opinions are mined in digital caves like this one, leaders need to be strong and principled, but flexible and practical. There is no right answer to anything anymore. Just honest people unafraid to take on new knowledge.
Hopefully, it will catch on in the U.S. as well! LOL I watched the Daily Report last and the ‘No-shows’ of Republican candidates at Black Universities and a Fundamentalist Organization was quite interesting, but not surprising.
In the U.S. they have been trying for a long time to have a way to severe the pain from incompetent leaders, like Bush, but their Constitution hands that power of impeachment to the Congress. Well, talk about the fox guarding the chicken coop? In response there have been actual referendums in a few states to add ‘NOTA’ (None of The Above) to the ballot. Still a quite viable idea, even here, but then we have a minimum of four to five choices, whereas the U.S. only has about three (Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian). We are very fortunate to have that many choices.
I was so happy with our Parliamentary system of a ‘vote of no-confidence’ when I immigrated here I was gleeful. Finally I lived in a land where reality triumphed over some archaic idea that repeatedly prolonged the people’s angony.
Funny, how we are subject to dismissal in our employment, and that little reminder keeps most people working properly. It has in Canada with Parliament, but now, poor tired out, worn out Canadians want to do away with that check and balance, call it a performance review. Bad mistake, very bad mistake. Wait, is it the will of the people or another of Harper’s attempts to establish a kingdom of Steve?
It is like saying we will only perform cancer treatment every five years, regardless of the spread rate. Sorry for the fatalities in between.
The entire process is out of phase with our digital democracy, wherein, we have the ability to intantly communicate, not he old snail mail letters, and waiting for a reply some postee may decide to stuff in their garage, instead of our cluster box.
John Tory has just become the Poster Child for Political Wakeup calls. His FBS issue brought forth a tsunami of protest, and it hit the PC shoreline with brute force. That is democracy in action. Fast, swift and sure. The people arein conctact with each other, and they are, as you said, not in a good mood.
Pretty much like the screeching halt being slapped on those who think our roads are their personal race tracks.
It is about time.
Maybe people will flock back to John. I know A LOT of people who couldn’t stomach McGuinty but were going to vote for him anyway because of the faith based schools issue. Now they may pause and reflect. It may be too late, however, since there is less than a week left.
Perhaps he shall find, with Mr. Tory, the ground’s fallow for those who stand for nothing.
posted by Garth Turner on 10.01.07 @ 11:12 pm |
Wow Garth! You’ve really turned Liberal all the way! It is amazing how you have let your hate for Conservatives spill over to provincial territory. What a shame. Did it hurt when they transfused your blood?
John did not ‘flip-flop’ at all. He still supports funding for religious schools. The only thing that changed is he listened to the people and promises a free vote on the issue if he should be elected.
You try in the beginning of your post to say that John has integrity and is a nice guy, you end by saying he stands for nothing. That was a low blow I don’t think John deserved.
L
This illustrates just how ‘Way out’ of touch Tory is on the FBS issue.
“Our campaign was being obstructed because the Liberals had chosen to use this (funding of religious schools) as a wedge issue,” said one afterward. “This will get us back onto our issues.”
Can Tory’s wink change the mood?
No John, it was not the Liberals, but the public who rose up against your outdated thinking and cheap attempt to buy votes. You really need to get out more…into the real world, not your little neighborhood where reality is uniform.
He might note the uproar came from the people, not the Liberals. Same old, same old. Never take responsibility for your own stupidity, just blame the other party. Where have we heard that before?
He then says Or, as Tory himself said to the media post-announcement yesterday: “This hopefully will depoliticize it (the religious schools issue).”
No, wrong again John. People, long ago realized that separation of Church and State are essential to democracy. Even the Catholic Chuch realized that was not to be part of their position back when Pope John XXIII, in 1958, ordered Vatican II, and turned the Church towards spirituality, and away from secular power interests. That, of course is not the case today under the newest Pope, and it shows. Guess the news travels as slow as the traffic down there in the Centre of the Universe?
No, John, you POLITICIZED’ the issue all by your widdle self. Welcome to the New World John!
Apprarently, the earth stopped rotating for many conservatives back about the mid 1950′s. Joshua would be amazed I am sure!
The art of implosion.
Tory comes from the same cut as Flaherty …same party once upon a time and as I see it, both were cruising quite nicely until they announce a stupid policy that haunts them forever.
Think like CRAP…..end up like CRAP.
Talk about getting ‘fixed’, well here is how the Big Oil Companies do it.
Ah, what a surprise. When will Blackwater be sent…or have they already?
Oil companies fuelling Burma’s junta
Total and former partner Unocal Corp. were accused of co-operating with the military in human rights violations while a pipeline was being built across Burma to Thailand in the 1990s. Both denied the accusations, but Unocal settled a related lawsuit in the U.S. in 2005, prior to being acquired by Chevron.
Harper has this misguided allusion that Canada and he are some sort of superpower that’s going to make it big time on the world stage. He has spoken ill of his own country when doing speaches in the past and can’t even come out and say he loves his country.
Harper – wake up. This is Canada. We like it the way it is. It’s worked well for us throughout history. We are only 33 million people – not 300 million like the US. We like the peace we have here. We enjoy not being hated. Life is pretty good in general here – if it ain’t broker, why try to fix it.
Harper wants to be a big shot – Harper is petty, mean, arrogant, immature, pouty and Harper “deceives”. What’s to look up to here.
Everything Harper has done so far is very flawed, details not properly taken into consideration – and, even if he brags – the things he has done are failures (ie. softwood lumber deal).
He contributed to Canadians fighting and bickering with each other – negativity is his game. We’ve been duped – the proof is in what Tom Flanigan has written. Smart – perhaps -good for us? NO.
This is the most immature, unstatesman- like, unsophisticated government I have ever seen in this country.
And the ‘other’ Hot Button Topic’ brought to you by the people, and vainly attempted by a couple at the Star to overthrow the people’s choice.
Rural ridings are favoured
Letter to the Editor:
Party bosses currently have a hand, in one form or another, of picking candidates for political parties. The higher echelons of the party can even override the local constituency association and “fly in” candidates.
….
It is particularly arrogant to dismiss the recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly, which after studying many models of PR, decided that MMP was the best model for Ontario. This is, after all, a citizens’ democracy. It seems that your editorial wishes to maintain the status quo, where undue rural influence prevails and urban voters are underrepresented and left to pay the bill.
Read the entire letter. The Star’s Editorial against MMP the other day, and the column by Ian Urquhart, were as biased as I recall ever reading and was quite upset with both.
John did not ‘flip-flop’ at all. He still supports funding for religious schools. The only thing that changed is he listened to the people and promises a free vote on the issue if he should be elected.
By Leasa on 10.02.07 8:12 am
John Tory is campaigning to be premier of Ontario with the slogan ”leadership matters.” For most of the election campaign, he seemed under the impression that ”leadership” meant never having to admit a mistake. G&M Editorial 10/02/07
As a new leader, Mr. Tory made the rounds of the ethnic communities and convinced himself that the current system discriminates against their schools. The policy to provide aid for faith-based schools was hashed out in caucus and included in the party’s election platform released in June. Murray Campbell—G&M—10/02/07
If it was hashed out in caucus, that means the majority of caucus must have approved the policy. So, it wasn’t ONLY John Tory who reversed himself.
So, Leasa, now that you’ve attempted to spin your Fairy Tale, look out the window. There is a whole REAL WORLD there.
The public is in no mood for social barriers and the breeding of cultural divisions…
Better tell all those Libs who support multi-culturalism. Maybe they’ll stop pushing it.
The only thing that changed is he listened to the people and promises a free vote…
Leasa, if Mr. Tory was truly listening to the people, he would have totally abandoned the idea. There is no stomach for this plan in any way, shape, or form. What Mr. Tory is doing is attempting to save face at the the 11th hour.
As I posted earlier, I like John and would like to be able to support him, but he has chosen the wrong hill to die on. He would have gotten more support if he had come out with a proposal to end support for Catholic boards in favour of one publicly funded system.
If he was listening to the people, he would know that…
As a new leader, Mr. Tory made the rounds of the ethnic communities and convinced himself that the current system discriminates against their schools.
…and he is right. It does discriminate. Catholics get funding for schools; Jewish, Muslim and the rest do not. As stated previously, I don’t know why there aren’t numerous Charter challenges goin on in this regard; even the UN has taken note.
Mr. Tory’s mistake is to not have gone the other way to remove the discrimination and stop funding Catholic boards.
My Countryman speaks:
Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour from Blacks Harbour NB, Canada writes:
”Jeepers! It does seem that all is not well in Ontari-ari-ari-OH! To top it all off it appears as though John Tory thinks voters are dumb. Is that an extension of the Mike Harris belief system? If a leader refuses to explain the full impact of his proposed policies, and then claims the voters are ”ill-informed,” that would dictate the need for close scrutiny of ANY and ALL the proposals put forward by that leader. I hope Ontarians have some degree of expertise with ground search parties. You should find this guy John Tory … track him down … force him to explain his policies FULLY. It seems like Ontario is getting a very early fall HEAVY SNOW-JOB.”
But wait, we still have the matter of Tory finding ”efficiencies” which would yield $1.5 Billion required savings to support his policies [which he says don't involve cuts.] He’s just going to shuffle people from one ministry to another. I’ve got an over-under, 5 rounds, 3 buckshot, 2 slugs … time to fire at will. G’bye John.
John Tory, for example, was never expected to flounder in this fashion.
Why not. He’s floundered in this fashion every other time he’s been involved in a campaign.
Actually his mayoral bid in Toronto ws well-executed and garnered him huge personal respect. Be fair. The man has talent. — Garth
I do note, however, that while the MPP of twelve years has honking big arterial signs in each ditch, park and cloverleaf, those of his opponent are sprouting everywhere on private lawns.
Perhaps he shall find, with Mr. Tory, the ground’s fallow for those who stand for nothing. The Hon. Garth Turner
One for the medical illustrations book, Mr. Turner. Henceforth and hereafter to be known as NO BALLS Chudleigh.
Read how a real democratic system works.
N.W.T. election provided colourful night
Races see-saw in Yellowknife
Consensus government
Unlike the provinces and the Yukon, the Northwest Territories runs on a consensus style of government, which means all candidates run as independents in their districts.
Looks like a Liberal MP disagrees with Garth. Joe Volpe backs Tory school plan.
http://www.towncrieronline.ca/main/main.php?direction=viewstory&storyid=6320&rootcatid=&communityid=1&rootsubcatid=
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 9:04 am
I saw the preview to RMR last night. I think I will do something else, rather than watch Lord Puffed Up carryon, (or should that be carrion?), pompously prancing pervertedly, presenting personal propensities pertenant to priviledged persons.
Can we get the Chicago Judge to drag him back to the U.S., or did Mercer go there to do the segment? Who knows, who cares.
Be fair. The man has talent. — Garth
Robert McClelland on 10.02.07 9:09 am
His geneology is problematic.
CP24 – “But this would be a humiliating defeat if John Tory not only loses the election but loses his own seat. The last person that we saw this happen was of course Kim Campbell back in 1993 and who was the campaign chair of that campaign? It was of course John Tory.â€
It must have been John Tory, along with others in the federal party hierarchy, who challenged Jean Chrétien to a face-fight. I remember when that ad first appeared. I called every Tory in the Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton triangle to ream their asses.
What matters now is that he’s seen as a man who reversed a strongly held view, in order to get elected. – Garth
The problem was he didn’t address the details.
Take the privately funded Christian School in Chatham. The folks that send their kids to this school pay their education taxes like the rest of us, yet receive no funding (I believe) from the Province.
So what was Mr. Tory and the PC’s saying?
First I heard was that if schools like this we to adopt the provincial ciriculum, have accredited teachers, and fall under the Public System (read school boards) they would be funded. I have no problem with that. He would be funding religious schools just like Catholic Schools.
But then, some bright spark PC mentioned that efficiencies would occur under Mr. Tory’s plan because these religious schools would use the same buildings as public schools, with a religious hour.
That’s not funding religious schools, that’s assimilating religious schools. I have no doubt those people who fund these independant schools would balk at this suggestion.
So I agree with Mr. Tory’s principle that all students should be funded by the province. But the details of how this would be done were not made clear.
Politicians running on priciple is fine (smaller government etc..) but the vision is in the details and the voters want details.
Mr. Tory did not flip flop. He heard the resounding no to his idea of extending funding to other faith based schools. So he backed off. Is this not exactly how a democracy should work? He states that he still holds the same outlook, but he will let the Conservative MPP’s decide in a free vote. People, you can’t ask for much more than that. The alternative is a serial liar.
Until this issue, I was all set to vote GREEN in the hopes that it might shake up the established parties and help focus some resources on the environment. However, I am now going to vote Conservative.
McGuinty is a liar and I have absolutely no reason to believe a word he says.
DeJong will trample religious and minority rights and, I suspect, do some serious damage to the economy.
Tory is an experienced businessman and leader. He listens to the people and is willing to change course in the name of fairness.
Thanks to how Mr. Tory has handled the faith based school funding issue… he now has my vote.
In the eventuality that funding is ever extended, I somehow doubt the sky will fall and people will become segregated. Simple scare tactics is all that rhetoric is.
pompously prancing pervertedly, presenting personal propensities pertenant to priviledged persons.
Can we get the Chicago Judge to drag him back to the U.S., or did Mercer go there to do the segment? Who knows, who cares.
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.02.07 9:17 am
Lord Cross of Blacks Harbour is not of the privileged caste. He be of a hardy lumber/fisher/miner stock … Patient with most … very obstreperous with those who attempt to deceive him. He be neither of the Sadducees nor the Pharisees, as one who speaks from the mount mentions quite frequently, while denouncing the poor as excuse-makers.
The world will NOT pause for a nanosecond when he departs, as it should be.
Odd how Ontario would even consider keeping McGuinty around.
Massive jobs losses, one health care crisis after another, no reduction in smog days, gangs and guns, dismal reports on education and for a look at what the future holds.
2 degree riddle
New study claims child abuse increasing rapidly in Ontario.
On a per capita basis both BC and Quebec collect the most child support, over 80% while Ontario was collecting less than 50% but still had far fewer youth problems. Over the last few years Ontario has made a big push on collections even stating the willingness to have a child support `swat team`.
The graphs show a correlation between the sole custody rate, child support collected and the amount of youth problems, more=more.
I`ve always stated that child support bankrupts fathers to the point they can`t be fathers. There are now about 2 million fatherless children in Canada. I would say `no fathers, no investment` but ya just wouldn`t get it.
Note that all child support paid for single parents on welfare is kept by the province to `replenish` welfare funds.
Welfare is a publicly funded program, to single out one group to pay an astronomical amount of this direct tax is unconstitutional. The cost are supposed to be the burden of all Cdns based on their income.
Ontario seems to like the idea of putting as much strain as possible on future generations as ballooning youth crime rates, and now the rapidly rising child abuse shows.
Quite the riddle as to why. Any 2 degree fans have the answer?
And you ask why the west wants out of this lunacy.
Canadian
Incidence Study
of Reported Child
Abuse and Neglect
page 20
40% of investigated families were
female-parent families (discussed in
chapter 7 of the CIS Final Report).
page 51
30% of physical abuse victims
were living in lone female-parent
families (see Table 7-1).
page 52
42% of cases of substantiated
neglect involved lone female-parent
families
By got rope? on 10.01.07 8:36 pm
By Reg on 10.02.07 9:27 am
Nice accusations against the Greens Reg. Care to prove your points?
Sounds to me like you are voting against McGuinty, not for change. Typical of so many Ontarians.
Welcome back to the the next sequel of ‘Not getting it done’ brought to you by the two major parties.
Hey, ‘experienced businessman’ is just what we need. Conrad Black for Premiere!
Actually his mayoral bid in Toronto ws well-executed and garnered him huge personal respect. Be fair. The man has talent. — Garth
Well that certainly balances the other disasters. And I am being fair. The man may have talent, but crafting and executing an election campaign is not one of them. Tory would be smart to begin looking for a good campaign strategist for 2012 right now. And then follow that strategist’s campaign to the letter.
By Reg on 10.02.07 9:27 am
You’ve got a vote … Use it. If the general population is unwilling to support a further fragmentation of our school system, [fully 67%] then it’s not going to happen. I think Tory’s position was merely ‘construct/device’ which he had to ride down like a bomb.
Good luck.
I find Garth’s comments about Tory far more balanced than any of the other Liberals on this forum. While partisan Liberals will paint the issue all negative, what it illustrates to me is that the PC Party still is reactive to the public.
Tory can be criticized for holding out for a policy that was poorly conceived and developed but to me the issue is deeper than that.
Some prefer the leader as dictator concept of political leadership. The question is whether that form of leadership is consistent with our democratic system. Should leaders be more flexible or should they be totally dogmatic in pushing forward their agenda?
Should leaders listen to the rank and file of the party or to hand picked advisors? If a leader gains the leadership on a slate of policies does that mean the party is obligated to accept all of them?
The big problem in politics today may be the inability to speak truth to power. Leaders select “yes-men” as their personal advisors. These sycophants see their self-interest in always supporting and agreeing with the leader. It places them in an artificial cocoon. I believe this is what happened to Mulroney, Chretien, and Martin. I don’t believe Harper has ever really been outside the cocoon.
The fact that the issue was hashed out in caucus suggests that there were some at least willing to buck the agenda of the leader and that is positive. It may be that there were not enough people in the caucus willing to come forward even if they opposed the idea to prevent the disaster that has befallen the campaign.
I applaud Tory for finally accepting the truth even if it is too late to turn around his showing in the election. At least it indicates that there is still a strong dynamic of debate within the PC Party that is absent in the new Conservative Party.
What I find amusing here in the comments of dedicated Liberals is that they are coming out strongly in favour of the Stephen Harper concept of leadership.
Looks like a Liberal MP disagrees with Garth. Joe Volpe backs Tory school plan.
http://www.towncrieronline.ca/main/main.php?direction=viewstory&storyid=6320&rootcatid=&communityid=1&rootsubcatid=
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.02.07 9:15 am
And the crowd, waiting patiently for the decision from the princes of the church, looked at the chimney [that's chimlee, to a Maritimer] and a great puff of smoke appeared. Gasps all ’round
…It was black smoke. Nope, Volpe didn’t make it! Will he try again?
Liberals is that they are coming out strongly in favour of the Stephen Harper concept of leadership.
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 10:00 am
That’s a general statement. I hope you’ll concede it is erroneous, as well.
Otherwise, name us some names.
I applaud Tory for finally accepting the truth even if it is too late to turn around his showing in the election. At least it indicates that there is still a strong dynamic of debate within the PC Party that is absent in the new Conservative Party.
Again, what surprises me is that it took so long, and may be too late to be of any benefit to Mr. Tory.
It was a no-brainer from the beginning that this issue had no traction in regards to garnering support. I am surprised that it was one of the planks to begin with, let alone that he stuck to it for so long.
In the election post mortem, this may be identified as the cause of death.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 9:44 am
Your old car awaits you!
http://www.northamericanpatriot.typepad.com/a_north_american_patriot/images/car_2.jpg
Hey, ‘experienced businessman’ is just what we need. Conrad Black for Premiere!
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.02.07 9:51 am
Only if you agree to permitting him to glom big cash as part of a non-compete sales arrangement. Oh, to be a chandelier in posh London city digs!
Flaherty in runoff to head IMF committee
Reuters
October 2, 2007
Washington — Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s name will be one of two on the ballot to head the International Monetary Fund financial committee in a runoff vote starting today.
India had hoped to become the first developing nation to head a major IMF committee, but an alliance of countries opted in favour of keeping industrial states in top policy spots.
Mr. Flaherty will run against Italian Finance Minister Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa.
…………………………………
I hope it’s the ‘beer bash’ committee. Nothing too complex or that involves numbers. Imagine if the short-one’s cutting edge expertise is released on the world.
On the other hand, maybe this is a way for the CONs to gently lead Flaherty out the door and hope he ends up in a small office in a far-away city where he can’t damage the CONs anymore.
Garth:
I stand corrected, my phone just rang, and the Caller said, I represent Stephen Harper and in preparation of possible election in November! could we count on your support. I simply said No.
tnuff said…on that one.
As mentioned here in NS we have a bi-election and I stopped and looked really close and Mike Keddy (PC) has no word Conservative on his sign and his name is in Liberal Red, all others have NDP, Green and Liberal in clear bold letters….he is so ashamed of both Rodney and his pal Stevie he will not touch em with a ten foot pole. And as far as Mr. Tory, I respect your views but Canadains must realize “Tin pot Dictators” working neo conservative policies believe only person should make rule and that person is one they smile at in the bathroom mirior, each and every morning.
November eh, stand by for some stick money Garth
I have a large Tim’s for a full week, the word “Liberal” will be on Garth’s signs. Any takers it won’t?
More on Tory’s FBS…Tories this time
Aaron Lee Wudrick, Conservative blogger – “Doesn’t it seem silly to insist, now, that he really meant it when he said this policy was a matter of fairness and principle and equality, and that even if it wasn’t popular, he wasn’t going to back down?â€
Joanne’s Blog, Blogging Tory – “Will this staunch the bleeding? I think it will get worse before it gets better, and with such a short time to go, the Conservative campaign could very well be DOA.â€
Mr. Tory’s mistake is to not have gone the other way to remove the discrimination and stop funding Catholic boards.
By Ed Brooks on 10.02.07 9:01 am
I agree with that statement Ed, if he had gone that way, he may have lost some Catholic’s votes but not as many as one would suspect. Catholics are generally in favour of fair and equal treatment for all, and I think many of them would have supported that action. I am wondering if it would have hurt him with the other faith based communities for going that way?
I also think he wouldhave done the Catholic community a great favour, they need to get back into the evangelization of their young people and the schools aren’t doing the job. This would put the onus back on the parents where it belongs.
As I predicted Ontario will lead the way down followed by the rest of Canada. Here we come.
A word from what used to be a top, hot housing market.
The US has subprime, we have ABCP which needs a $40B bailout.
I can`t find the report on condos but from inside sources it`s overloaded with used units on the block
cash is good
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/business/story.html?id=0a89c1d3-9926-4bf3-a5f4-a5bda47deaf6
Victoria BC
September saw a total of 632 sales through the Multiple Listing Service, down from 846 in August,
“We have got fewer people showing up at open houses, we’ve got fewer sales going through, price reductions are becoming more prevalent … The buzz phrase right now is, ‘If it isn’t priced right, it won’t sell.’”
Someone had to say it. The Tories are sucking wind nation wide. Oxygen masks have been deployed.
Here’s the front page headline of today’s Calgary Sun: “Tories over a barrelâ€. Meanwhile in Ontario it’s far from certain whether John Tory will even win his own seat in the October 10th Ontario election. My how things have changed since Outremont. As for Harper, he has experienced none of the election lift normally associated with incumbency. He hasn’t expanded his appeal whatsoever. He has stagnated big time. The reasons for this nation wide sucking of wind is readily explainable by thei tories penchant for highly controversial interventionist policies. People fundamentally reject being dogmatically whipsawed by some third party’s ideological view of what’s correct or “fairâ€. Fair is just a another way of saying I want it my way. Many refer to the federal Conservative party as the CRAP party (Conservative Reform Alliance Party). I don’t know about that, however these conservative minded people are certainly capable of dreaming up some real crap policies. Retroactive royalty review in Alberta in the image of the NEP. Faith based school funding in Ontario to entrench cultural divides and inject religion into politics as a callous and crude vote pandering exercise. And federal tax subsidies of $7.5 billion a year in lost tax revenues to Ottawa to displace domestic investors in favour of big pension plans and foreign investors to bring about the hollowing out of Canada by foreign private equity and big oil at the additional expense of $35 billion in Canadians hard earned life savings.
What a winning ticket. They should patent these ideas, since they are all patently absurd. Sort of like the brain trust that came up with them. Reminds me of the song; “Do you know your way to Outremont?â€
It seems to me that Tory did what you would normally profess to do: He listened to the voting public and changed his policy to match. Rather than trying to continue to sell the idea, he listened to the people. I can’t believe that you would chastise him for that. It took big cojones to backtrack like that.
Our alternative is another session of Pinnochio in Provincial Parliament at Queen’s Park!
If you stand for something so firmly that you would disallow a free vote among your caucus members, then days later reverse course after the polls turned against you, I’d say you are in politics to win office, not to win a cause. Just an opinion. — Garth
“Do you know your way to Outremont?â€
According to Kady O’Malley, Liberal Party director Jamie Carroll wishes he didn’t.
She claims, based upon a CBC report,
he is resigning later today.
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dip&pid=78642&tid=78642&eid=48&so=1&ps=0&sb=1
That’s a general statement. I hope you’ll concede it is erroneous, as well.
Otherwise, name us some names.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 10:14 am
Garth
He detests Harpers top down government but when John Tory listens to his caucus he`s doing a `flip flop`.
btw I bought her a new car just before the split but I get the irony.
Your name is curious, is it a take off on Peters Bitch?
What a winning ticket. They should patent these ideas, since they are all patently absurd. Sort of like the brain trust that came up with them. Reminds me of the song; “Do you know your way to Outremont?â€
By Brent Fullard on 10.02.07 11:02 am
http://forums.macleans.ca/uploads/1366/1176482174.1594.upload1.jpg
Is this the ‘hammer’ man? How can he, as hammer man, engage the seniors who were hurt by PMSH and Flim-Flam Dim-Jim Flahety? … He is clearly of their flock, as are Alexa and Judy watch your valise-valise. [Wpg. airport security]
Where is C-30 which precipated his champagne and cake celebration?
He has cut himself badly, but he doesn’t realize how badly yet. I will give his man a very rough ride in this town. It helps when you’re described as a sycophant. They WEAR their misjudgments well, but only AFTER the dust settles.
Well I for one happen to see John Tory as a bigger man this week than I did last week. Perhaps we Ontarians are just shocked by the fact that we’re seeing a provincial politician that…wait for it…listens to the people!
At least John Tory had the courage to recognize the unfair nature of our publicly funded school system. Dalton McGuinty turns a blind eye to the problem in hopes that Ontarians will simply look the other way. This approach is both naive and disrespectful.
That said, this heathen thinks that we should be looking towards the Greens and NDP approach to correcting the inequity…one board…that works.
Your name is curious, is it a take off on Peters Bitch?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 11:23 am
Take it any way you wish … It deals more with origins of name/nationality, but take it as you sees it. It appears your former missus took you as she saw you … with her legal counsel’s assist.
I’m thinking that because public funding for private schools has been hapapening successfully for many years in SIX other Canadian provinces that John Tory’s plan to bring Ontario into the 21st Century on this issue should not have been deemed so controversial.
The plan is not even unique or visionary or radical or costly or problematic.
I really can’t understand how Ontario, which claims to be the centre of the universe in this country and so “progressive” is so behind reality on this issue.
It appears your former missus took you as she saw you … with her legal counsel’s assist.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 11:31 am
As you started this personal attack without so much as a comment on the facts I note you`ve beaten the IT drum on every thread. Your comments to me on personal matters gives you away. You don`t care about Its but are just using it as a path to attack a government that holds family values, children and our society above your personal interests. Judging from your choice of words it`s easy to come to the conclusion you`re a child abuse denier, perhaps even a child abuser.
By Lorraine on 10.02.07 11:36 am
You have the GERM of a great idea there.
You should market it … after waiting an appropriate respectful time to permit the legislature to bring it forward for a vote. John Tory won’t be there, but that shouldn’t really matter.
Failing successful passage, you could go door-to-door. I’m sure your unbiased earnestness will convince everyone. Maybe you could do that after the next federal election. Maestro Del Mastro will be available to you then. He is achieving great notoriety as a man who crosses his ‘i’s’ and dots his ‘t’s.’ What an awesome pair you would make.
Seems you must admire Mr Harper as a man of integrity who doesn’t bend to voters interests everyday….that or you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth again! Which is it?
By John G on 10.02.07 7:00 am
The paid troll strikes again! Trying to stir brown stuff wherever it doesn’t exist… what did that comment mean anyway? Typical cons … all talk, no substance.
By Andrew McDonnell on 10.02.07 11:27 am
Is John Tory nervously eating more? That would explain your bigger man idea.
I really can’t understand how Ontario, which claims to be the centre of the universe in this country and so “progressive†is so behind reality on this issue.
By Lorraine on 10.02.07 11:36 am
I personally think there is great merit behind an idea (GPO, I must add) to secularize the system in its entirety. I think we have no need for catholic schools who have traditionally preached strongly against such accepted concepts as homosexuality and having islamic schools where teachers praise violence http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/03/27/wcan27.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/03/27/ixworld.html
While Quebec tries to integrate immigrants into its culture and language, Ontario might instead be on track to creating more distinct ghettos, each with its own language and religion, and hate for other groups… is that what multiculturalism is really about?
I really can’t understand how Ontario, which claims to be the centre of the universe in this country and so “progressive†is so behind reality on this issue.
By Lorraine on 10.02.07 11:36 am
I wasn’t aware we were the center of the universe, and I am a loss to know who is making those claims. I do know I have heard rumblings on this blog from some that the West would like to separate. I don’t see many on here calling for Ontario to separate, so maybe you could enlighten me as to who is making that claim please.
As far as the issue is concerned, the faith based funding issue, it might have been okay if it had been thought through, I had many discussions with Mr. Tory on this subject and warned him of the problem with the unknown and unaccountable even within a system that holds a common curriculum. In a faith based school, including the Catholic system, there are many opportunities for the faith leader on staff to indoctinize the students and the control over this is not held by the province but rather the faith community. I suggested that this would need to be addressed for people to fell comfortable with faith based funding.
I also suggested to him that going the other route and making one system for all would be the fair way to go. I am not surprised that this did not fly as the devil is in the details and unfortunately none were forthcoming.
I think John Tory is a good man, would be a good manager of the people’s tax money but unfortunately this issue, while one of conviction, needed to be fleshed out within the PC party prior to making it a campaign issue.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 10:14 am
You could start with yourself. Even “rope” can recognize the double standards in what you have written. Extreme partisans on any side of an issue, including Brent Fullard and David Bakody, are no different from the pro-Harper extremists here. They are so partisan that it blinds them to the other side of the issue.
What I am beginning to understand is that those blinded by partisanship are incapable of discussing or debating an issue except from the perspective of partisanship. This is why the discussion often descends into the gutter.
It may be at least partly responsible for the why party politics is destroying democracy. It narrows the focus and militates against any form of independent thought. It simply focuses on opposing everything the “enemy” does and everyone who is associated in any way with that party.
Maybe that is why I am not a good party person. I have difficulty in vilifying anyone to the extend of seeing them as an “enemy” although I have no problem in vilifying ideas that I believe are misguided.
That said, this heathen thinks that we should be looking towards the Greens and NDP approach to correcting the inequity…one board…that works.
By Andrew McDonnell on 10.02.07 11:27 am
If we would only have one board, would we be best to use the one that is the most efficient on a per capita basis? The one that consistently gets the highers scores overall on the EQAO testing?
If we go to one board for everyone, let’s choose the one that is getting the best results for its students. Okay? Didn’t this so.
Judging from your choice of words it`s easy to come to the conclusion you`re a child abuse denier, perhaps even a child abuser.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 11:46 am
You’re the guy on the ”three strikes you’re out list!”
Maybe that is why I am not a good party person. I have difficulty in vilifying anyone to the extend of seeing them as an “enemy†although I have no problem in vilifying ideas that I believe are misguided.
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 12:08 pm
I’m not a slave to any ritual. Like most, I inform myself of the potential alternatives before I cast my ballot. You’ve suggested a predisposition of bias … That is absolutely true. When I have cause to re-examine and change my vote, I will. I won’t do it because some anonymous poster here suggests that I might be supporting the wrong people. I prove it to myself, without accepting the opinion of other people or opinions of a party leader who suggests voters are ”ill-informed.”
Flaherty’s personal pay day is near at hand..
You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. Its amazing where one’s ego will take them……..and one’s country in the self serving process. Jim is well on his way to that coveted job with a Wall Street dealer as Chairman of its Canadian Subsidiary. Just like his nemesis Ernie Eves at First Boston. What better thing to have on your resume than Head of the IMF. The US has the deciding vote on who heads the IMF. Mark Carney has been instrumental in guiding Flaherty down this path as Mark worked for 11 years with Henry Paulson at Goldman Sachs. Mark is Finance’s G7 Minister. Mark’s payday is to be appointed by Flaherty to head the Bank of Canada. There is however a sequence of events to follow in this elaborate back scratching exercise. Almost makes you feel like you have the fleas.
Flaherty has dutifully followed his instructions handed to him by former Goldman Sachs Chairman and today’s US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. Flaherty had his recent job interview and career assessment just last week with Henry. Here is Henry’s job assessment of Flaherty’s work to date
(1) facilitate private equity takeout of Canada by eliminating 15% withholding tax on leveraged buyout loans
(2) failed however on his mission to render Canadian Companies more vulnerable by eliminating interest deductibility of interest on foreign acquisition debt
(3) mission to harmonize our securities under the umbrella of the SEC through the establishment of a single national securities regulator is well under way
(4) facilitate the private equity takeout and big oil acquisition of business and energy trusts by limiting their growth under existing Canadian owners at a cost to Canadian investors of $35 billion and vastly diminished retirement lifestyles and investment choices.
(5) introduce a tax subsidy from the government for foreign buyers to do so. Eg. $793 million a year for BCE alone to facilitate buyout by Providence and Madison Dearborn and Teachers. This tax break will cost Canadians $7.5 billion a year and lots of head office jobs
(6) eliminate the 10% withholding tax on bank loans at a cost to Canadians of $180 million a year
Flaherty is in the bake off to head the IMF. He is up against Italy’s Finance Minister. Flaherty is a shoe-in now that France is in the pocket of the US under Sarkozy.. Here are the disproportionate voting rights of the IMF:
United States 16.79%
Japan 6.02%
Germany 5.88%
France 4.86%
United Kingdom 4.86%
For the rest who vote as multi country blocks, go to http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/memdir/eds.htm
If Tory was listening – he would have changed his tune weeks ago, not at the last minute. If he didn’t know people were against the faith based school funding – he wasn’t listening. He was looking for a wedge issue.
What bothered me about Tory – he never stops talking, blah, blah, blah and on and on and on and not saying much. He promised not to be negative and that’s all he’s done from day one. The news coverage was always John Tory running out of ally-ways, suddenly appearing on the scene of a contraversial issue -photo-op stuff, blah, blah, blah – criticize, criticize – yawn and he looked like a fool. Like a kid chasing a fire engine.
Ya, he may be nice and all the other stuff-but he comes off like a fool.
To me, if you have to go so negative, it’s because you truly have nothing substantive to offer.
Why do politicians make promises? We make them make promises – it’s our own fault. If we were told the absolute truth about everything we won’t vote for them. We are the fools. We want promises of candy and good things like children.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 10:14 am
You could start with yourself. Even “rope†can recognize the double standards in what you have written.
It simply focuses on opposing everything the “enemy†does and everyone who is associated in any way with that party.
I have difficulty in vilifying anyone to the extend of seeing them as an “enemyâ€
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 12:08 pm
For those that abuse children for profit I am the enemy. For those that allow the abuse of children for personal agendas I am their enemy. Extremism and corruption create enemies to justify their actions such as gun registry money diverted to government sponsored hate groups. Those of us that stand up for true equality, the rights of the child, the rule of law are natural enemies to the corrupt. They show themselves by attacking the poster and not the information.
While we might stand on different sides of some issues and view the effect of ideologies on government at least you address the issues and even Garth occasionally flirts with the truth unlike most of the garthbots.
Prove flirting. — Garth
We had decades of very good Conservative leadership under premiers Frost, Robarts and Davis, all of whom rightly deserve a great deal of respect.
Then along came Mike Harris.
Regrettably John Tory appears to be associated more with the latter than the former giants of the Conservative party.
Further, many people in Ontario, especially in the cities, view a vote for Tory as a vote for Stephen Harper.
It is a pity, however, that Tory did not win in Toronto. I believe he would have been a very good mayor. Perhaps next time around?
Re: comments By got rope? on 10.02.07 12:55 pm
I don’t see things in the same way you do. The people you refer to I see as sick or misguided but I don’t personalize in that way.
When one starts seeing groups of people within society as your personal “enemy” then it can lead to bigotry and violence as we have seen in the cases of mass killings. Everything from the Air India bombings, to 9/11, to the various school shootings illustrate that potential.
Do you have military training?
And another CON/Tory has shown what their hidden agenda looks like….
http://daveberta.blogspot.com/2007/10/albertas-sheila-fraser-moment.html
http://calgarygrit.blogspot.com/2007/10/billion-dollar-boondoggle.html
By got rope? on 10.02.07 12:55 pm
Great rant … Feel better? Your rant didn’t prove anything to me. In fact, it bordered on the undisciplined ramblings of a hysterical incoherent person. I make my choices. If you’re claiming I’m a criminal, you’re going to have to prove it. If you think I might feel threatened by your stupidity, you’re sadly mistaken.
The electoral shakedown will occur very soon. I look forward to it. I will participate in it. I will embarrass the living fetid crap out of the CRAP member in this riding.
Prove flirting. — Garth
By got rope? on 10.02.07 12:55 pm
“Short of carpet bombing” to cure Parliament among other things but it`s one I find still stands out.
A turn of phrase. How does that flirt with truth? Do not make such allegations unless you can prove them. — Garth
“Getting Fixed”…
sounds like something you’d from Dion on a Saturday morning walk with Kyoto… “What er’ ya up to Mr. Dion?” “We’re going to get fixed”
You’re the guy on the â€three strikes you’re out list!â€
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 12:16 pm
HUH? I made a list? That`s a step up for me. As a childless father I`ve been considered a nonentity, not worthy of a list as per the 1987 SCoC decision that fathers have no rights which also shows up in our 2 million fatherless Cdn children accelerating youth crime rates.
omg, now that I`ve stepped up to a list I`ll have to decide how to us this new found recognition.
When one starts seeing groups of people within society as your personal “enemy†then it can lead to bigotry and violence as we have seen in the cases of mass killings. Everything from the Air India bombings, to 9/11, to the various school shootings illustrate that potential.
Do you have military training?
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 1:07 pm
lol, no I don`t have military training. It`s me that`s the enemy of the child abuse for profit group, not the other way around. The prove is in the hateful personal attacks I receive while simply posting the facts.
I don`t agree with you that the concept of enemies create 9/11 or Air India. That is pure hate, something I can`t even begin to fathom. I was raised by 2 loving parents, and was never taught to hate but that still makes me the enemy of those that can hate.
I will embarrass the living fetid crap out of the CRAP member in this riding.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 1:09 pm
I hope so, I`m rooting for at least a Liberal minority in the next fed election.
Wish you good luck.
Million Canadians victims of fraud: Survey
Only a minority filed complaints with most feeling authorities are too lenient with the perpetrators
Like Harper and Flaherty, Black, and the rest of thieves of people’s lives.
Read the effects, no different than terrorism, torture, or deprivation.
By Emilie on 10.02.07 1:09 pm
Thanks, Emilie. Duly recorded and filed.
You’re now in the file ‘Colbert Report’ It’s a helluva mess, fully deserving of Albertans’ attention. There is nothing, unfortunately, we can do out here in the east.
Albertans, for the most part, claim their entrepreneurial talents, finding oil, far exceed the work and business acumen of Bill Gates. I don’t agree with them on that … Whenever Mr. Gates is in town, I try to get out to see him, staying as close as possible, in order to intercept a Boston cream pie.
John Tory was forced to “soften” his policy. Nothing to do with “listening to the people”. All to do with reading the polls!
And from what I have heard he has not dropped the policy. He will have a “free-vote” ,establish a commission, start a “pilot project” Wonder what religion get the first pilot project?
A leader who bases policy on the polls is weak, prone to flips, and unreliable.
And John Tory further distanced me from his party when he announced what he really want to be when he grew up was a hockey coach!!! Talk about simpering-blatant cries for the “hockey Dad” vote.
If we would only have one board, would we be best to use the one that is the most efficient on a per capita basis? The one that consistently gets the highers scores overall on the EQAO testing?
If we go to one board for everyone, let’s choose the one that is getting the best results for its students. Okay? Didn’t this so.
By Reg on 10.02.07 12:12 pm
Well one would assume there would be an amalgamation which should bring the best ideas along with it. It would also provide an opportunity to make some cuts where there are duplication of administative services, this would allow more funding for the students themselves.
Mr. Tory does stand for something, and it’s Mr. McGuinty who stands for nothing much other than tax and spend Liberal government, which Ontarians seem to prefer even if they are led by a proven prevaricator.
You can tax me, and lie and steal my money, but don’t you dare hurt my sacred feeeeelings !!!
By Harry S on 10.02.07 1:17 am
I believe there is a difference between a healthcare tax utilized to pay for hospitals and medical care as a tax hike versus the Federal CONs raising our personal tax rate 0.5% and double taxing income trust distributions in seniors’ retirement accounts, justifying it by saying that they can’t afford to pay for “important social programs” if they didn’t and then cutting “important social programs” and utilizing a $14 billion budget surplus to pay down debt.
John says Harper doesn’t bend to the voters. What a joke!! Are you talking of the same Harper who has denied the existence of a climate change crisis?
Are you talking of the same Harper who suddenly flipped on Climate Change when it became the number one issue for Canadian citizens?
Harper flips with the best of them, John, when it suits his purpose.
Garth and Tina Turner:
With an election near at hand, the Conservative Party cut off the nominations last night for their election theme song. The winner is Tina Turner’s “You better be good to meâ€. Like us, she has no use for what Harper loosely calls the truth or time for his overloaded lines. Although unlike Tina we aren’t captured by Harper’s spell or his show of emotion. Show of emotion?
If this theme song doesn’t do it for Stephen, I am sure the two campaign buses he plans to borrow from John Tory will bring him good luck.
Here are Tina’s winning lyrics:
You better be good to me
A prisoner of your lies
Entangled in your web
Hot promises on the campaign trail
I’m captured by your spell
Oh yes I’m touched by this show of emotion
Should I be fractured by your lack of devotion
Should I, should I?
You better be good to me
That’s how its gotta be now
Cause I don’t have no use
For what you loosely call the truth
You better be good to me
I think its also right
That we don’t need to fight
We stand face to face
And you present your case
And I know you keep telling me that you love me
And I really do wanna believe
But did you think I’d just accept you in blind faith
Oh sure babe, anything to please you
You better be good to me
That’s how its gotta be now
Cause I don’t have the time
For your over loaded lines
You better be good to me
And I really don’t see why its so hard to be good to me
And I don’t understand what’s your plan that you cant be good to me
What I cant feel I surely cannot see, why cant you be good to me
And if its not real I do not wish to see, why cant you be good to me
Rope,
I have another question: what do you mean about those who abuse children for profit?
Well, at least we now know ‘Connie’ (soon to be shortened to just ‘Con’ with a number) had Mercer come to Florida for the 3-1/2 minute segment. Almost enough time to take a whiz, get another drink, and a snack.
Lord Black waxes on
Stumbling on the long march toward democracy
Harper’s (and Bush’s, and Howard’s) REAL planbook:
At the same time that capitalism has become “remarkably responsive to what people want as consumers,” democracies are failing in their basic functions – “to articulate and act upon the common good.” The great economic advances of the last decade or so have been accomplished by “workers forced to settle for lower wages and benefits … (and) companies that shed their loyalties to communities and morph into global supply chains.”
I have another question: what do you mean about those who abuse children for profit?
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 2:31 pm
The question is who benefits from sole custody. It`s all in the data.
I don`t need to go into how fathers fare or rather don`t. Mothers don`t fare any better as there are more single mothers on welfare than ever before. The youth crime wave shows it definitely doen`t benefit children but it has created a youth crime wave which the justice industry, through the courts revolving doors, has made huge financial windfalls.
The provincial AGs funneled gun registry money to hate groups aimed a fathers, at first I thought it was to incite fathers to violence justifying the $2b spent but after further investigation it was an attempt to justify the immoral, unconstitutional and often illegal use of sole custody for profit by the justice industry.
In all the years I`ve been at this there has not been one plausable explanation for sole custody and the 2 million fatherless children other than profit.
If we would only have one board, would we be best to use the one that is the most efficient on a per capita basis? The one that consistently gets the highers scores overall on the EQAO testing?
If we go to one board for everyone, let’s choose the one that is getting the best results for its students. Okay? Didn’t this so.
By Reg on 10.02.07 12:12 pm
Reg, The simple truth here is that the evolving demographics of Ontaio are making the unfairness of our current system more and more apparent. What I’m suggesting is looking at the strengths of both systems and merging them in an effort to make one system that’s both fair and better.
Our children are already seperated economically and culturally by geography in many cases. Should you and I live next door to each other, I feel that they should attend the same school.
Not only do I have logical grounds to feel this way, I just feel that it’s right.
I see religion as something that is very personal that should be a family affair, not a public one.
I’m in no way against teaching children values and principles in school. If we take a close look at all the major religions, we find a pretty common set of values and we don’t need to turn our back on them.
That said, I stand by my belief that religious instruction should be the responsibility of the family and not that of my tax $’s.
On a side note, wouldn’t it be great if every child in our single publicly funded system graduated bilingual in both French and English? Or am I just pushing it now?
Garth said, “leaders need to be strong and principled, but flexible and practical. There is no right answer to anything anymore. Just honest people unafraid to take on new knowledge.”
But in order to lead they have to get elected. By use of polls/focus groups they find out what/how they have to say/act in order to get elected. By ignoring this fact many good men/women have lost elections and so I guess can be classified as losers.
I do not see any indication that voters are becoming better informed. I do admit that they are more informed about perceived wrongful political actions/behaviours.
Is John Tory nervously eating more? That would explain your bigger man idea.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 11:52 am
lol! We all know that too many sour grapes can pack on the pounds! It would be so immature of me to bring Stephan Harper into this discussion…so I won’t. hehehe
t appears your former missus took you as she saw you … with her legal counsel’s assist.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 11:31 am
As you started this personal attack without so much as a comment on the facts I note you`ve beaten the IT drum on every thread. Your comments to me on personal matters gives you away. You don`t care about Its but are just using it as a path to attack a government that holds family values, children and our society above your personal interests. Judging from your choice of words it`s easy to come to the conclusion you`re a child abuse denier, perhaps even a child abuser.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 11:46 am
Rope,
You are implying that Pyotr is a child abuser? That is pretty serious charge is it not? That brings to mind Stephen Harper’s charge that Pauul Martin supported child pornography. But perhaps that is a good thing.
Perhaps the electorate needs repeated reminders of the kind of person Stephen Harper really is. After all he never did apologize!
I’m in no way against teaching children values and principles in school. If we take a close look at all the major religions, we find a pretty common set of values and we don’t need to turn our back on them.
That said, I stand by my belief that religious instruction should be the responsibility of the family and not that of my tax $’s.
On a side note, wouldn’t it be great if every child in our single publicly funded system graduated bilingual in both French and English? Or am I just pushing it now?
By Andrew McDonnell on 10.02.07 2:58 pm
Congratulations on your noble statement of what would constitute an ideal system. I am a Catholic, always raised outside the Catholic school system … as my children have been. I think most would agree that elimination of the taj mahal board office duplications would direct more money to school purposes.
Brent Fullard…in this UBoob age, posting text lyrics just doesn’t cut it anymore. The computer speech reader just doesn’t have her groove on.
We need the Full Monty Fullard with sound and dance.
Free idea for software developers:
Develop a speech reader for Blogs so that users can assign a unique voice to each individual poster. I’d assign Woody Woodpecker for myself. Brehehehe Brehehe. That’s all folks.
I do not see any indication that voters are becoming better informed. I do admit that they are more informed about perceived wrongful political actions/behaviours.
By Bill on 10.02.07 3:04 pm
Admittedly, it can sometimes by difficult to use the discriminating ‘sift and sort’ method required to discover the true motivations of candidates. The analogy I use quite often is picking flyshit out of pepper with boxing gloves on … and then being paid a piece-rate for your efforts. It works for me. I suspect it becomes rather arduous for others. The Hon. Garth Turner is the gold-standard the rest have to meet.
John Tory was forced to “soften†his policy. Nothing to do with “listening to the peopleâ€. All to do with reading the polls!
By Judy on 10.02.07 2:21 pm
Hmmm. Don’t you think that listening to the people and reading the polls are very closely related?
John Tory’s not lied and told us that he’s had a shift in thinking overnight. Beside the fact that he’s had the stupid idea in the first place, I think that he’s dealt with it quite well.
Dalton McGuinty’s failure didn’t come when he burdened Ontarians with the HCP. It came when he made a promise that he couldn’t keep because he hadn’t done the research.
Then he tried to palm it off as not raising our taxes. This was his BIG MISTAKE! He should have admitted error and told us that he was forced to make a leadership decision then, not in a video taped segment that ran before the leadership debate.
When politicians treat us like fools, we should return the favor!
That said, I stand by my belief that religious instruction should be the responsibility of the family and not that of my tax $’s.
By Andrew McDonnell on 10.02.07 2:58 pm
Andrew, you reply has a lot of good, common sense ideas. Thank you for the balance. As well, there was another poster who suggested they would expect the best of all system would be combined.
I believe the reality is far different than our expectations.
I can live with non supporters of religious schools not wanting their tax dollars going to support such… which would lead to the question about why not just let each person decide which system they wish to support. You don’t want your tax dollars going to a religious school, but is it fair that someone else has to pay twice if they want to educate their child outside of the public system?
Parents should have the CHOICE of where to send their children, so long as whatever institution is teaching their child is meeting, or exceeding, provincial standards.
I am still having trouble getting past the issue of the cost. If public funding is extended to faith based schools, the cost is estimated to be between 400 and 500 million. If faith based schools, and the Catholic system, are brought under the public system (i.e. only one school system), would the cost not be the same?
It would behoove the various faiths to start to communicate to all Ontarians what they do and teach at their schools. I believe this is an issue based out of the unknown and of fear. With communication and education, this can be overcome.
Garth, as an investment advisor, do you not agree that in making investment decisions people should look at the underlying business rather than the way it is taxed. Do you not agree that too many people were putting too much money into income trusts? In my view some investors were souping up their portfolios to get more income and never properly assessed the risk they were taking. Sure Harper lied but on the other hand you should not be assessing investment risk on the basis of an election promise. Yes, Harper lied and this caused someone to lose $109,000. That is true but does it give a complete assessment of the situation. It would be interesting to know whether the total portfolio was $500,000 or $2,000,000. That would give some context to the amount lost. (I do not vote conservative).
I remember when interest rates were 12%. Seniors with $100,000 were getting $12,000 income. Then when interest rates started dropping some screamed blue murder because the government was not keeping interest rates high, another example of souping up a portfolio.
I am not an investment advisor.– Garth
And the crowd, waiting patiently for the decision from the princes of the church, looked at the chimney [that’s chimlee, to a Maritimer] and a great puff of smoke appeared. Gasps all ’round
…It was black smoke. Nope, Volpe didn’t make it! Will he try again?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 10:08 am
Try again but this time pick up your marbles off the floor before you start typing.
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.02.07 2:41 pm
Hey Hey, I have something to say, and it’s non Partisan. Thanks Bill for bringing up Conrad Black. I have watched the fortunes or our once Bright and Shining Star for a while, am not professing to be an expert, but here is what the Old Comrade smells in all of this.
Mr. Black is a highly intelligent individual, who has not always been a politically correct, down home good ole boy and perhaps, PERHAPS, has transgressed.
What needs to be seen is, why? Why has Mr. Black been singled out amongst the masses of offenders? An interesting question when you ponder it.
Here is a Man who took from his beginnings, not a deprived Man, but someone who obviously had talent and will. He saw the powers override his Father’s position and took up the torch to give back to those who he, as a young Man saw as taking advantage.
I wonder, if he maybe, possibly transgressed in the world of….He was a powerful Man. MSM..
Maybe, in his heart, he is one of us???
John Tory was forced to “soften†his policy. Nothing to do with “listening to the peopleâ€. All to do with reading the polls!
By Judy on 10.02.07 2:21 pm
Holy smokes, I agree with Judy. John Tory did indeed cave – probably for political gain.
I really can’t speak for seperate/private school boards, as our whole family attended public schools; however, I am a supporter of public funding of all boards that follow the Ontario curriculum and allow students and teachers from other religion (including atheism) to teach in their boards. For example, an atheist teacher teaching in Catholic school, a student (from a protestant background) in Sihk school, a teacher (from a muslim background) teaching in a Jewish school, etc.
Oh here’s a question for the Liberals:
Fact: there’s about 53,000 students attending private schools (faith based or other).
Fact: The parents of the 53,000 students pay the same amount of taxes as those attending public and catholic schools.
Liberal half truth: if Ontario were to fund private schools, it would cost 1/2 Billion $.
If these 53,000 students were to start attending the public schools, would the education budget for those public schools increase? And by how much?
Love to know the Liberal answer to these 2 questions.
Re: comments by got rope? on 10.02.07 2:54 pm
I don’t know the specifics of your case or in your province but where I live today joint custody is the rule not the exception. Most couples are able to put their personal problems behind them for the sake of the children.
I know of two examples in which fathers were given sole custody and one in which the mother was given sole custody. In each case there were special circumstances.
Sole custody is given only in cases which it is deemed to be in the best interests of the child. Maybe it is different where you live.
By pjw on 10.02.07 10:54 am
I agree with the last part of your summary, as a Catholic.
However, and maybe my IQ hasn’t switched on to this, everyone on this discussion has not made the distinction between school boards and individual schools.
If any politician were to say I am closing down your catholic schools, either closing the doors or making them non denominational public schools, they would lose 95% of the catholic vote, mine included.
However, if they said we’re going to fund a one board system overseeing all schools, public, catholic and religious, where funding for a school is based on it teaching to the provincial curriculum with accredited teachers, the loss of the catholic vote would not be that great. In fact I would support such a motion as the inefficiencies lie with the duplication of boards, not schools.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 2:54 pm
Rope, it’s a political system that, I would like to believe, tries to provide for a Child’s best interest. In our human failings, we oft err. The crime is in the arrogance. The assumption that they are right, first, last and always.
I have seen the pain in a Child’s eyes. I will forever stand for their rights, and I will tell it like it is, regardless of what is Politically correct.
Children are the Future. They are the most Beautiful of God’s gifts. We are charged with their world. I, for one, will forever, as long as that is, give to them what a Man can give.
And that doesn’t encompass a 52†flat screen.
Garth, your garth@garth.ca email is bouncing.
Redirect problems. Use turnergarth@gmail.com. — Garth
Rope,
You are implying that Pyotr is a child abuser? That is pretty serious charge is it not? That brings to mind Stephen Harper’s charge that Pauul Martin supported child pornography. But perhaps that is a good thing.
By Gord on 10.02.07 3:11 pm
I`m not sure how petersbitch defending child abuse has anything to do with Harper other than expose your motive of bashing the opposition into losing.
Really is that the best you can do defending the exploding youth crime rate the Liberals are responsible for?
Hi Garth,
The most important vote in the Ontario election is the referendum. Will you write a supportive article about it?
“Short of carpet bombing†to cure Parliament among other things but it`s one I find still stands out.
A turn of phrase. How does that flirt with truth? Do not make such allegations unless you can prove them. — Garth
By got rope? on 10.02.07 1:14 pm
Garth
I`m disappointed you deleted my reply.
If you recall I was among the first that suggested to you if independent MP wasn`t working for you, join the Green Party.
It`s not my fault that you joined the Libs and now your corn flakes are soggy and there`s still time.
I Love the way the HarperCONs accuse Garth of “Having Gone Liberal”. I think It’s Called being “Progressive” Garth hasn’t Changed his God Damn Party Did. Garth wasn’t into Wearing a “Muzzle” becoming a Lapdog to “Dear Leader” like the Rest of the “Brain Dead” Reformers. HarperCONS haven’t A “Clue” to Share among Em.Many former “Progressive” Conservatives will Go Green if they don’t vote Liberal or NDP.The Only people voting for Harper will be the Bigots,Blowhards and Bimbos many who show up here everyday making asses of themselves while braying about how Garth is Just “Too liberal”.But as Stephan Colbert says “The Truth has a Liberal Bias” so I guess Garth You’ve Always been “Too Liberal” and please never change.
I don’t know the specifics of your case or in your province but where I live today joint custody is the rule not the exception.
By C. B. Innes on 10.02.07 4:09 pm
Don`t like to be the one that breaks this to you CB but the words might have changed in several US states and some provinces in Canada but the stats stay the same. Look at the stats and you`ll find `joint custody` is no different than sole custody, children are routinely denied a parent. It`s a scam, a lie just a new one to replace the ones we`ve exposed like;
Children don`t need fathers
Child support is the most important thing to a child of divorce
All men are bad, all women are victims.
From Geo and others, it`s only men that diddle children
Fathers have visitation rights.
The words joint custody have replaced sole custody, which btw has been around for a few years, more than enough time to see it just means more of the same.
It has to be presumed joint physical custody or youth crime rates will continue to balloon well into the next generation. Thats a fact.
Where did Tory go so wrong?
Ontario voters sensibly will not tolerate creationalism taught in publically-funded schools by fundamentalist-type religions. The world despite what Stockwell Day believes was not created less than 8000 years ago and people did not co-exist with dinosaurs like cartoon chracters such as Fred, Wilma and their baby, Pebbles or their next door neighbours, Barney and this wife. People are smart enough to believe there is more credence in evolution.
Tory advocates turning the clock back and when he found voters too resistant to his archaic thinking, he decided to abandon it in hopes he’d be able to save his seat. It remains to be seen whether he’ll be successful.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 10:26 am
Applause, cheers and whistles!!
Geo
Children are the Future. They are the most Beautiful of God’s gifts. We are charged with their world. I, for one, will forever, as long as that is, give to them what a Man can give.
By Greg on 10.02.07 4:34 pm
Ah you old softy. As much as the fanatics on this blog try and make out my motive by saying that I hate women, I`m with you.
If it was just the political system that has erred I would say cool, fix it. As it the justice industry abusing children for profit I have done much more.
Besides the couple of dozen court appearances on behalf of my children I spent another 3 years in court following other family trials. During that time I read 5 years worth of SCoBC family decisions and have read every report, study and empirical charts and still read ever new report on any subject that touches sole custody.
I speak from experience and knowledge which is why the child abusers are so quick to personally attack me rather than the very factual evidence I present.
I`m not sure how petersbitch defending child abuse has anything to do with Harper other than expose your motive of bashing the opposition into losing.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 4:43 pm
Your name is curious, is it a take off on Peters Bitch?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 11:23 am
I hope so, I`m rooting for at least a Liberal minority in the next fed election.
Wish you good luck.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 1:53 pm
Like I said before, if you’re claiming I’m a child abuser/molester, provide proof of your claim.
I have a nice convenient medical *pigeon-hole in which to place your type of personality. Do you have wild mood swings often? Ever have problems controlling your fantasies? Are you on medication? *When a pigeon is in its nest, what sound does it make?
However, if they said we’re going to fund a one board system overseeing all schools, public, catholic and religious, where funding for a school is based on it teaching to the provincial curriculum with accredited teachers, the loss of the catholic vote would not be that great. In fact I would support such a motion as the inefficiencies lie with the duplication of boards, not schools.
By James- Chatham on 10.02.07 4:16 pm
James, that doesn’t address my primary concern, as it is at the moment Catholic schools are required to teach the common curriculum and required to have accredited teachers and have the option of having religion classes that the public board does not have, but it is the faith leader of the community that goes unchecked, so if the issue is one of fairness, then I would suggest one system devoid of all religious content other than a world religions course approved by the Government of Ontario. Believe me, the schools are not doing our Catholic Church any great service…just look in the parish on Sunday and see how many students attend Mass, that will answer that question, Aside from that, it gives parents a neat way to abdicate their responsibility for the faith development of their children…easier to let the school do it!
I think the parocial system my kids attended in New York was a much better system, yes, we had to pay a tuition fee but the parish as a whole kicked in as well and took an interest in the parish school. The only draw back was the teacher’s accreditation was not as good as one might have liked but our kids managed and when we moved to Toronto, and had no problem fitting into the system here.
Try again but this time pick up your marbles off the floor before you start typing.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.02.07 3:51 pm
Hol[e]y SeeeeDuuuuuce, Action Man. You aren’t Batman are you. How’s ’bout some timely tips on the lifestyle of the Sadducees and the Pharisees? You are an Ottawa-New-Peon poster ain’tcha? I’ve got a travel deal for you … It involves combining sex with travel, with the operative word being ‘OFF.’
Like I said before, if you’re claiming I’m a child abuser/molester, provide proof of your claim.
. Do you have wild mood swings often? Ever have problems controlling your fantasies? Are you on medication?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 5:23 pm
Your personal attacks on me in order to denigrate the facts is the reason I named you a child abuse denier.
Here`s your chance, what`s your excuse?
I am not an investment advisor.– Garth
As a former investment advisor??????
I remember when interest rates were 12%. Seniors with $100,000 were getting $12,000 income. Then when interest rates started dropping some screamed blue murder because the government was not keeping interest rates high, another example of souping up a portfolio.
By Bill on 10.02.07 3:45 pm
And when interest rates where 12% or higher, what was the rate of inflation?
Do a quick math of interest rate minus rate of inflation and you get your real rate of return.
For example right now if your savings account gets 3% and inflation is 3% and infaltion is 2.5%, your real rate of return is a meezly 0.5%.
IT’s are equities that give a higher than average distribution. Also their unit prices get punished heavily when distributions are cut.
The ones with good underlying companies have recovered. The ones that didn’t, cut their distributions, got hammered and their unit prices haven’t recovered.
So you’re right, people were using IT because of the income forgetting that the underlying unit value depended on how the business was doing. But with low interest rates, they couldn’t get the income from their savings, probably because they had overestimated interest rates.
However, on the issue of the Harper/Flaherty flop, given the way these two people took the Libs to task on their handling of IT taxation, its not surprising people believed and trusted them not to change the rules on IT’s, and certainly not to flop on their promise.
Maybe it was a perfect storm waiting to happen. The trigger, the Harper/Flaherty flip-flop.
Applause, cheers and whistles!!
Geo
By Georgine on 10.02.07 5:17 pm
lol and you said you didn`t hate men. roflmao
Love to know the Liberal answer to these 2 questions.
By Catherine on 10.02.07 4:07 pm
Since I am not a liberal, I don’t know if you want my answer but I will give it a go. If we had a one board system, one public system, it would cost 50% less than having faith based schools because the board buildings and administrations are already in place. Now that is my best guess, there is no way for me to be able to give you an absolute figure but when you think of all the possible faiths and if they all had their own board offices in each area (e.g. Mississauga, Halton, Hamilton Wentworth etc etc.), this could really mushroom into a giant expense. But further to that, my question still remains, who holds the faith community accountable to what is being evangelized within the schools. This is done outside the common curriculum!
It would behoove the various faiths to start to communicate to all Ontarians what they do and teach at their schools. I believe this is an issue based out of the unknown and of fear. With communication and education, this can be overcome.
By Reg on 10.02.07 3:40 pm
Yes there is an element of fear and your suggestion has good merit, however, if I was the faith person and was teaching radical and a subvertive agenda, I don’t think I would be publicizing it.
In a similar vein to the washout from carrying the Faith-Based Schooling banner, I think the soon-to-be-released Federal drug strategy is flawed and will backfire [I note, however, in today's news a related story that may suggest an eventual reversal in stance -- or, being till June, a strategic delay in implementation until after a possible election]. From Sunday’s London Free Press:
In my view, I think the public is way ahead of the politicians on this front, and, at least in the case of pot-smoking youth (but not consumption of more deleterious chemicals), will see this as a heavy-handed approach to minor indiscretions. This could be one of those wedge issues that combust for the Conservatives, much the same way that faith-based schooling has for John Tory. I’d wager that at least some of the Conservative and even über-Conservative supporters here have spent a few youthful moments sharing with their friends a bottle of Gilbey’s Lemon Gin (that teenage standby from days-gone-by that urban legend wrongly characterized as a drink you couldn’t taste), and a joint dangling from an alligator clip. And have since moved on, becoming neither alcoholics nor pot-heads, with consumption of an intoxicant today extending not much farther than a cold beer after mowing the lawn or a bottle of wine with Thanksgiving dinner.
Recognizing that there is a disconnect between fighting suppliers of drugs, and punishing consumers of the same, I still think the previous government’s proposal to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana is the right one. The punitive consequences of carrying a criminal record and all that it entails for being caught with a joint — restrictions to travel, work, inability to gain membership to professional regulatory organizations even after completing a university degree, potential incarceration alongside more deserving inmates — is hugely disproportionate to the “crime”. The bulk of these kids are not criminals in the classic sense and will become tomorrow’s responsible citizens. They don’t need this vindictive anchor before they even get a real start on life.
Get-tough plan on drugs doomed, experts say:
If you’re a Conservative supporter who has been squirreling away your spare cash in an RESP or equivalent for the past 15 years so your kid can follow in your professional footsteps, just to see it go “Up In Smoke” as a consequence of such stupid policy, well them’s the breaks, eh? All others, you have my sympathy.
Really is that the best you can do defending the exploding youth crime rate the Liberals are responsible for?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 4:43 pm
Now, I usually don’t want to get my feet wet in this debate, but let me put my two cents in this one: Having grown up in the 80s and 90s, I saw first hand how the younger generation evolved, and so did my mom who was a teacher. Children used to be visibly much more innocent than these days. Why is it that since serious child discipline was put into question, children have gotten more unruly? Does it have to do with parents not having a personal responsibility if a kid under 12 is responsible for murder, though he/she cannot be charged? This is the age of information: kids do know they can get away with basically anything. I believe, if parents were held at least partly accountable for their children’s behaviour, maybe the former would be more likely to get that bold behaviour under control sooner rather than later. How would you like being convicted to, say, 5 years in prison for a stabbing your child committed?
When a Bank fails in today’s shrug-it-off market, does anybody hear about it?
The oldest online bank in the U.S. collapsed into bankruptcy on mortgage-related losses
What was it worth? How much is it sold for?…1% of total deposit value
BBBBBBBBBBbbbrrrrrrrrrrahahahahahaha
have watched the fortunes or our once Bright and Shining Star for a while, am not professing to be an expert, but here is what the Old Comrade smells in all of this.
Mr. Black is a highly intelligent individual, who has not always been a politically correct, down home good ole boy and perhaps, PERHAPS, has transgressed.
By Greg on 10.02.07 4:02 pm
Greg, I appreciate your sentiments, however he has been found GUILTY by a Court of Law. No perhaps left. His version of business ethics is an insult to all we who actually practice real ethics.
Same goes for Bill Gates, who without the aide of his lawyer father, would never have gotten the contract from IBM originally. HIS DOS (Dirty Operating Sytem) was bad enough, but his tactics of stiffling solid, and innovative businesses over the decades is a trail of wicked legalized crime. I have no use for either of them.
BTW, switched to Vista yet? You have until June 30, 2008, before MicroSlop stops offering support. I have not, and know I will be forced to eventually. I may switch to Mac or Linux. Too many changes. I used to run IBM OS/2 Warp, but they never brought out a Client version because their ‘lawyers’ failed to buy a WIN32 API license from MicroSlop. Typical. Lawyers cost us all BILLIONS, and take it like sheeple.
But, then that is another kettle of rotten fish, eh?
See you all later, as in tomorrow. I am out for the evening.
Does it have to do with parents not having a personal responsibility …
By Jonnay on 10.02.07 5:59 pm
Then too, is the abdication of responsibility on the part of the parent. Hey, here’s $20, wanna go shopping, or to the movies, by yourself?
Rather than, Hey, there’s a nice new movie we ought to see, starring Sean P. Hogan, entitled the Hol[e]y Grey Owl.
My simple, unprofessional, non-partisan take on John Tory -
A politician looking for a cause that would bring in votes, he seized on FBS to attract voters from religions paying for but not benefiting from official Public and Separate/Catholic school support. This also would bring additional ethnic votes.
Looked like a winner, until party strategists read the papers, did a few straw polls, and discovered that it would turn off far more Public and Separate school votes than it would bring from other denominations.
Nothing to do with schools, religions or principles, only a promising election gimmick that turned out to be counter-productive. Just normal politics, no reason to be surprised. But it is shocking that politicians have been getting away with this kind of thing for generations.
Of course it will change under MMP, and I have a great little bridge to sell.
my question still remains, who holds the faith community accountable to what is being evangelized within the schools.
This is done outside the common curriculum!
By pjw on 10.02.07 5:41 pm
Funding seems to be the big issue when it`s all funding really is just a matter of putting the right numbers in the right place. The tough question is curriculum which is probably why the`re avoiding it.
Other issues come to mind that have similar properties.
As you said this form of government isn`t working.
I believe, if parents were held at least partly accountable for their children’s behaviour, maybe the former would be more likely to get that bold behaviour under control sooner rather than later.
By Jonnay on 10.02.07 5:59 pm
In some cases parents are held financially responsibly.
As there are over 2 million one parent children in Canada that generate 80% of the crime not to mention the majority of teen suicides, drug use, smoking, runaways, teen pregnancies and heavily impact the school dropout rate, it would be unfair to impose a burden on an already overloaded single parent.
The problem as suggested by all the statical studies indicate the problem lays with a lack of parents which equals a lack of parenting as the cause and not the quality.
on every surface of every aspect you can find the fingerprints of sole custody
Yes there is an element of fear and your suggestion has good merit, however, if I was the faith person and was teaching radical and a subvertive agenda, I don’t think I would be publicizing it.
By pjw on 10.02.07 5:47 pm
The following case demonstrates our lack of ability to know, until an informant was placed inside the group.
Updated Sat. Jun. 3 2006 11:41 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Police arrested 12 men and five youths on terrorism charges in the Toronto area Friday night, allegedly foiling a potential series of bombings against targets in Southern Ontario, the RCMP says.
“a new strategy that cracks down on illicit drug users, critics say they are ignoring a mountain of research that shows the get-tough approach doesn’t work.”
Dube on 10.02.07 5:57 pm
The current drug treatment plans are not working either. Interesting connection here between the Liberal plan of soft on crime which I support to the Conservatives plan to get tough on crime.
Can you think of it?
OK times up, lol. They both claim they plan will succeed because the`re attacking the root cause of crime.
In fact neither are attacking the root cause so I suspect nether know what to do let alone how to attack the root cause even though they both know what it is. The`ve just taken opposite positions intentionally causing huge debates on who`s doing what rather than be forced to deal with the root cause.
Of course it will change under MMP, and I have a great little bridge to sell.
By Herb on 10.02.07 6:22 pm
60% vote threshhold, I guess you’ve got a bridge to sell, ‘cos MMP won’t fly.
Garth,
What is happening to your party?
“Liberal director to be shuffled out; Que. MP quits
Updated Tue. Oct. 2 2007 6:04 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
A Quebec Liberal MP announced his resignation from the party Monday citing poor leadership by Stephane Dion, while the Liberal national director is expected to lose his post.”
It sounds amazingly similar to what recently transpired in the conservative party.
I was wondering why…and then it hit me. You are the common-denominator (previously PC/Conservative, now liberal). You’d better be careful. Soon no party will have you.
(that is a joke by the way – not the fighting in the liberal party, just my reference to you).
Ed the Hun
Ha, ha. You’re a riot. (Keep your day job.) — Garth
Hello Joan, are you out there?
”””””””””””””””””””’
Outspoken blogger received Tory contract
Opinionated Conservative paid up to $20,000 for consulting work
Glen McGregor
The Ottawa Citizen
Monday, October 01, 2007
The Harper government gave a contract for communications consulting on Parliament Hill, worth up to $20,000, to an outspoken Conservative Internet blogger.
Privy Council Office records show Joan Tintor, author of a popular weblog or “blog,” in June received the one-year contract for “communications professional services not elsewhere specified.”
The government says Ms. Tintor was not paid to write a blog and has so far received only $350 for work performed under the contract.
She was contracted to provide writing and other communications work on an as-needed basis to the office of government House leader Peter Van Loan.
“We do not pay bloggers in our office,” said Michael White, communications assistant to Mr. Van Loan. He said he was previously unaware of Ms. Tintor’s blog and said there is nothing in her contract to pay for it.
She hasn’t worked under the contract since May, when she did some writing related to the party’s democratic reform initiative, he said.
“She has helped us out with various things,” Mr. White said.
In an online biography, Ms. Tintor describes herself as “a middle-aged conservative who first became interested in politics when Pierre Trudeau was still the most-despised prime minister in Canadian history.” She says she once worked for Mike Harris cabinet minister Al Palladini at Queen’s Park.
Ms. Tintor did not return an e-mail requesting comment and, when reached by telephone, she said she would have to call back. She did not.
Her strongly opinionated blog focuses on provincial and federal politics and is listed on the web page of the “Blogging Tories,” a collection of conservative Internet commentators. Her blog, at joantintor.blogspot.com, features an ad for Ontario Progressive Conservative leader John Tory and offers links to many other right-leaning bloggers. Much of its content this week is given over to criticism of Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and his Liberal party. She is a featured blogger in TV Ontario’s coverage of the provincial election.
Ms. Tintor is also the past president of the federal Conservative association in Davenport, a downtown Toronto riding, according to her blog.
Unlike most journalists who work in the mainstream media — the “MSM” in blogger parlance — bloggers are not constrained by ethics rules that would keep them from taking contracts from the government they write about.
But news of Ms. Tintor’s contract comes at a time when the relationship between partisan bloggers and political parties is under increased scrutiny.
Some Liberal strategists grumble that the Tories use sympathetic bloggers to provide political spin that the party cannot or will not, by circulating information that may be misleading, with little accountability.
In his new book, Harper’s Team: Behind the Scenes in the Conservative Rise to Power, party strategist Tom Flanagan notes the Tories’ innovative use of blogs in the 2006 election campaign.
He cites in particular two members of the Blogging Tories, Steve Jank and Stephen Taylor, who write highly partisan blogs on federal politics.
Mr. Flanagan writes that campaign manager Doug Finley “appointed people to monitor the blogosphere and to get out stories that were not quite ready for the mainstream media.”
These bloggers “amplify and diversify our message,” he wrote.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2007
Police arrested 12 men and five youths on terrorism charges in the Toronto area Friday night, allegedly foiling a potential series of bombings against targets in Southern Ontario, the RCMP says.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 6:38 pm
Pyotr, and from what I’ve read, none of them learned their extremist views at a faith based school. It was being espoused at their place of worship.
Pyotr, and from what I’ve read, none of them learned their extremist views at a faith based school. It was being espoused at their place of worship.
By Reg on 10.02.07 7:01 pm
Well, of course they didn’t, we don’t have them yet other than the Catholic system and I don’t think these were Catholics, but faith based schools could be a wonderful recruitment center.
Ha, ha. You’re a riot. (Keep your day job.) — Garth
By Ed the Hun on 10.02.07 6:56 pm
However, Garth, the folks in the Death Star must be laughing as the leaders of the Rebellion seem to be imploding.
And thats not funny….more years of Harper.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Is Iran War getting closer!
MSNBC’s oct.1/07 rawstory.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Seymour_Hersh_No_reason_we_might_1002.html
Has the USA become a police state?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2007/021007_reading_constitution.htm
How are the real terrorist?
Are you a critical thinker?
‘belief in myth avoids the discomfort of thought’
Why does PMSH want the SPP without Parliment oversight? Who is he working for?
Garth, I’m enjoying Al Gore’s book,
)
‘The ASSAUT ON REASON’.
http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Search/QuickSearchProc/1,,al%20gore,00.html?id=al%20gore
(I’m a slow reader and am only up to chapter 3 so far, but plugging along.
Recognizing that there is a disconnect between fighting suppliers of drugs, and punishing consumers of the same, I still think the previous government’s proposal to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana is the right one. – By Dube on 10.02.07 5:57 pm
So the government wants to get tough on drugs.
A couple of years ago, I had to travel to Indonesia for my brother-in-law’s wedding. As I transfered in Taipei, ensuring that ignorance of the law couldn’t enter into the equation, large signs over the exits, “Drug Trafficing Punishable by Death.”
The problem is not only the users, but the scum bags making money on other proples’ misery. Let the penalty fit the crime. Put trafficers away for a long time, with a three strike rule!
As for marijuana, treat it like alcohol. But get tough on impaired drivers, real tough. Same as above, three strikes……..
Also glad to see cops getting tough on speeders. In London, I believe 6 drivers caught doing 50Kph + over the limit (one was doing 100 over), automatic licence suspension, car impounded, large fines ($2,000 plus), not to mention $400 to get the car out of the pound, plus a visit to the magistrate! Throw the book at them, a few days out of circulation is req’d, your Honour!
BTW, switched to Vista yet? You have until June 30, 2008, before MicroSlop stops offering support. . . .
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.02.07 6:21 pm
Hello Bill and all — when I buy a new PC shortly, I will download and use Ubuntu as the main OS (free, Linux-based system, with two upgrades a year), the printer works with the PC, then use Vista to create and burn DVDs and CDs — that’s all.
I already have a Mac Mini with Apple’s System 10.3.9, and that’s what I use for e-mail and ‘net stuff. Far simpler and much easier to use.
Charles
Rope,
You are implying that Pyotr is a child abuser? That is pretty serious charge is it not? That brings to mind Stephen Harper’s charge that Paul Martin supported child pornography. But perhaps that is a good thing.
By Gord on 10.02.07 3:11 pm
I`m not sure how petersbitch defending child abuse has anything to do with Harper other than expose your motive of bashing the opposition into losing.
Really is that the best you can do defending the exploding youth crime rate the Liberals are responsible for?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 4:43 pm
Rope,
You have quoted me out of context and changed the meaning entirely.
Let me restate this.
Whatever you and Pyotr are at each others throats about it would appear that you crossed over the line when you accused him of supporting child abuse.
Similarly, Stephen Harper crossed the line, in one of his defining moments, when he accused Paul Martin of supporting child pornography, clearly a form of child abuse.
I suggested that your accusing Pyotr may be a good thing ONLY because it
serves to remind us what kind of person Stephen Harper really is.
Please accept my apologies for not making myself clear the first around.
This is NOT good news for the ‘net.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071001154843.cjbfw3h8&show_article=1
Finally, the average person is coming to his/her senses. Stay outta debt, stay outta trouble.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=485129&in_page_id=1770
Frank Zappa reincarnates! YES!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RodRD4-sQ2s
Rope,
About a year or so ago I heard an interview with a Canadian criminologist on crime prevention, and was quite interested with what he had to say. Rather than go into detail, I direct you to Page 21 at this link:
http://www.cph.org.uk/cph_pubs/reports/CH/preventing_violence.pdf
where you’ll find a paper written by him entitled ” VIOLENT CRIME: OUNCE OF PREVENTION WORTH A POUND OF DETERRENCE”. He also published a book this past year entitled “Less Law, More Order — The Truth about Reducing Crime”. The synopsis for that book is as follows:
PS - On a different note, I regret not having had time on one of the earlier threads to challenge you on your ideas on maglev vehicles, not from the perspective of being a contrarian, but rather as a mental exercise to flesh it out and see where there might be shortcomings. It was in fact a timely – and uncanny – topic to bring up at that time because just that morning, or the day prior, my son brought up the same idea on the way to school and I was exploring the pitfalls with him. Maybe some other time...
“Let me restate this.”
By Gord on 10.02.07 8:11 pm
No need for you to restate what I said, here it is.
By got rope? on 10.02.07 11:46 am
“Judging from your choice of words it`s easy to come to the conclusion you`re a child abuse denier, perhaps even a child abuser.”
I think it`s pretty clear, if you know anything about law. Starting with a person of `authority` that stretches from child abuse to adscam. `If you know of a crime committed or a crime about to be committed and fail to act you are as responsible as the person that committed the crime`.
Second. ` A person having knowledge of child abuse but failing to report it is considered an accessory after the fact.
I went on to further explain on a following post’
Like I said before, if you’re claiming I’m a child abuser/molester, provide proof of your claim.
. Do you have wild mood swings often? Ever have problems controlling your fantasies? Are you on medication?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 5:23 pm
Your personal attacks on me in order to denigrate the facts is the reason I named you a child abuse denier.
Here`s your chance, what`s your excuse?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 5:37 pm
You might want to think about when you accuse someone over the words you put in their mouths.
Now is this Paul Martin thing about the Sharp trial on child porn?
my son brought up the same idea on the way to school and I was exploring the pitfalls with him. Maybe some other time…
By Dube on 10.02.07 9:32 pm
I don`t doubt there`s a lot of talk lol, I`ve been beating the mag drum for several years now. Most if the interest was on international sites and the feedback in general sounds good.
Some of the sites of interest have some real eggheads running them. The space elevator people are profoundly easy to understand considering the complexity.
Any time Dube, be my pleasure.
Garth,
Don’t worry I’ll be keeping my day job. One thing that I learned long ago was to understand my strengths and weaknesses. Stand-up was never one of them.
Ed the Hun
By Dube on 10.02.07 9:32 pm
Just looking over your violence report.
The UK has more youth problems than any European country. Not exactly a good reference but the report had good comparisons on programs. I didn`t notice did you see our Cdn catch phrase `attacking the root cause of crime` anywhere in there? I didn`t see one mention, at least we have the words even if we still don`t attack the root cause as shown by all the evidence.
From what I can tell, the incumbent MPP here in Halton seems to be using the map Elections Ontario gave him before re-distribution. He seems to have forgotten that his riding also includes my part of Burlington. Not to worry, though, come election day, I just might forget his name….
Andrew: What is John Tory was leading in the polls and yet the majority of Ontarians opposed his Faith Based School Funding? Do you still think he would have “softened” his policy and spouted free vote?
By got rope? on 10.02.07 5:07 pm
Sux, I thought you were leaving. You said you were.
More selective crap from a lonely bitter old man. Even your daughter doesn’t buy the half of it, Western Separation or you stats or your child advocacy, she’s just polite. Her mom brought her up right. You are just a busy body with a cause. No background and no one will listen to you any more.
Sux, I’ve been following along as you have been spewing out your misinformation to CB and others.
You are so full of it your eyes are brown.
And all your talk about these huge percentages of kids in trouble with the law and how they are from single parent families. First off, what sort of crimes? Armed robbery or jay walking or what? Rural or City? How about by province? It’s a big country and one big sweeping stat is too vague.
You give this big 80% stat or whatever it is but you never offer up ideas of what to do for the kids. Just stuff for the fathers. You are a fathers advocate not a child advocate. Why don’t you just admit it?
Children don`t need fathers…of course they do.
Child support is the most important thing to a child of divorce…only you have ever made this claim. And it’s stupid. Kid’s of course want their dad, even if he’s been a complete AH.
All men are bad, all women are victims…..only you have ever made this claim. Another stupid one. But there are too many men that have beaten their wives and children too often to almost make it true. Yes women have too, but men still are the aggressor far and away more often than women.
From Geo and others, it`s only men that diddle children……utter crap, again only you have ever made this claim. Why do you lie? But again, more men, usually close family members will sexually abuse children than strangers. And then, gee, those kids are more likely to act out and get into trouble.
Fathers have visitation rights….or they have the kids, or reasonable access, whatever is worked out, depending on the people and the kids. It evolves. Unlike you Sux
Oh, yes, before I forget, I am a twisted feminist. I believe that is what you called me. Better than being accused of being a child abuser (my son would probably have to hunt you down and hurt you:). Which is why I guess I hate men. This you discerned through your great skills as a…what? What did you do to earn a living when you bought her that car? Didn’t she contribute anything? Tell the truth now Sux, it was just a replacement family car and it was 2nd hand. Nothing special.
I like men just fine. It’s only you, Fed Sux Get a Rope Won’t Leave that I find offensive and I’m sure if we ever met in person I wouldn’t like you at all. Well, and Sean P too.
Geo
sux,
Besides the couple of dozen court appearances on behalf of my children
They made you pay child support didn’t they?! Ha!!
Geo
By Canuck on 10.02.07 5:16 pm
We now have evidence, that would scientific, that Modern Man has been around for about 115,000 years; that Neandethal Man came later, and then disappeared. We, likewise, know they were not entirely made extinct, because they formed the Rethuglican and CRAP political parties, and can be seen driving their pickup trucks with guns rack, their abused families, almost anywhere.
Likewise, here in the Muskoka, we have an ancient White Pine that has been dated to around 8637 B.C. when a giant tsunami wiped out the area, most likely due to a meteor or comet impact.
So much for the 6,000 year old earth BS.
But then, that would require a literate mind, education, and a grasp of reality beyond what some literalist, self-proclaimed Bible Thumper tells their Sheeple.
Even the Catholic Church gave up Hell, and Damnation decades ago (1958 actually), by decree of Pope John XXIII in Vatican II.
But they haven’t heard that because their ears do not work, their eyes cannot see.
By Charles Oxley on 10.02.07 7:40 pm
I use OpenOffice.org as my Office suite. It is open source, free, does everything MicroSlop Office does, and is regularly updated. Sun Microsytems puts it out just to pay back Bill Gates. It can import and export anything MicroSlop’s apps use. It even imports CAD files directly.
The bloody schools (post secondary) insist everyone use MS Office, because they get a ‘deal’ from Gates to promote it.
Students are forced to spend $160 to $600 for the bloody MS app. Why?
Oh, and OO.o works with all operating systems.
I also use NetScape, not MS IE, or their horrid Outlook Express. Also free, and far better, and more secure.
Sheeple are so easy to lead.
Bill-Muskoka on 10.02.07 6:21 pm
Vista **Shudder**
I love my Macs:) All of them! And the next one too.
Geo
Frank Zappa reincarnates! YES!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RodRD4-sQ2s
By Charles Oxley on 10.02.07 9:12 pm
I adore Frank!! A personal hero:) This was wonderful!
I have a short film of Frank on CNN CrossFire, in ’87 I think discussing censorship in music. What a blast. Some guy from a parent group the PMRC, not sure if they still exist or not. That one is black and white.
Then another in colour with Robert Novak, also Crossfire, same topic, censorship of music, and Frank calmly and simply wipes the floor with those Republithugs, especially John Loften. A thing of beauty.
Frank says:
The biggest threat to American democracy is not communism … it’s everything … that is moving us towards a fascist theocracy, right down that pipe …
Frank was paying attention in ’89.
Thanks for the memories. I wish I could share the movies but I don’t know how.
But I do know they are out there. Good Luck. They are so much worth the watch.
Geo
Mr. Tory’s stand in the face of his own party’s opposition is so much like Harper that his reversal was too late. The last thing Ontario needs is another Harris/Harper government. I’m sure Mr.
Tory is a very nice man. So is our PC candidate. They just don’t fit the mold many ordinary Canadians want from their government.
They made you pay child support didn’t they?! Ha!!
Geo
By Georgine on 10.02.07 11:42 pm
They made you pay child support didn’t they?! Ha!!
Geo
By Georgine on 10.02.07 11:42 pm
oops missed the text.
I paid much more in child support than the courts required. Ha
As for your rant about fathers have visitation rights, would you like the 1987 SCoC decision?
Do you really want me to post the stats on DV that show women are the aggressor”
I thought not.
You have a rant, I have sole custody stats, youth crime stats etc etc.
Yep, your twisted all right Geo, you are a child abuse denier.
Want to hunt me down a spit on me like you said you would with Sean. That`s considered an assault and you`ve been making threats.
Garth, as I stated you are in a position of authority. You are aware of a crime committed in this threat. If you don`t take action you too could be charged with uttering threats. Turn her email addy over to the police for investigation and applicable charges.
I like men just fine. It’s only you, Fed Sux Get a Rope Won’t Leave that I find offensive and I’m sure if we ever met in person I wouldn’t like you at all. Well, and Sean P too.
Geo
By Georgine on 10.02.07 11:32 pm
Say it ain’t so Geo, say it ain’t so.
What about our three kids, Bobby, Peggy-Sue and little 3 yearold Joey?
Rather than, Hey, there’s a nice new movie we ought to see, starring Sean P. Hogan, entitled the Hol[e]y Grey Owl.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.02.07 6:21 pm
What colour is the sky in your world?
Even the Catholic Church gave up Hell, and Damnation decades ago (1958 actually), by decree of Pope John XXIII in Vatican II.
But they haven’t heard that because their ears do not work, their eyes cannot see.
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.03.07 12:02 am
You’re making things up here.
You should really stick to a topic that you actually have knowledge or are you still trying to find one topic that would match?
Geo writes;
“Yes women have too, but men still are the aggressor far and away more often than women.”
Yet she threatens sean with assult and insinuates violence against men but men are the agressors, I rest my case.
“From Geo and others, it`s only men that diddle children……utter crap, again only you have ever made this claim.”
Who`s the liar?
http://www.canadiancrc.com/female_sexual_predators_awareness.htm
75% of sexual predators are male and 25% are female.
86% of the victims of female sexual predators aren’t believed, so the crimes go unreported and don’t get prosecuted. Considering these facts, arrest statistics for child sexual offenders by gender are meaningless.
from “The Sexual Abuse by Women of Children and Teenagers”
UK TV programme – Panorama – BBC1 – 10 pm Monday, October 6th, 1997
There have been some that have been lead to believe the courts rule in the best interests of the children. Even more are shocked that I could say sole custody is used by the justice industry for profit.
I don`t take what I say lightly and no one should take the exploding youth crime rate lightly.
SCoC Chief Justice McLachlin
“the best interest of the child “is not vital or fundamental to our social notion of justice.”
It`s all about profit, the enormous profits made by the justice industry through the immoral, unconstitutional and often illegal use of sole custody creating a continuing increase in youth crime.
http://www.canadiancrc.com/index.htm
Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada doesn’t support children’s rights
“An illustration of the lack of appreciation of the importance of Canada’s commitment to children’s rights was seen in the comments made by Chief Justice McLachlin during the Supreme Court deliberations on the constitutionality of section 43 of the Criminal Code. She not only disregarded the consistent recommendations of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, but also went on to say that the best interest of the child “is not vital or fundamental to our social notion of justice.”
Garth:
Here is a question that involves both federal and provincial politics, and I am hoping you have a answer, as you are in a good place to get it if you don’t already know it. The question is: What is the policy / legality / ethics of a Federal MP doing door to door campaigning on behalf a Provincial MPP candidate? Is this allowed under Parliamentary rules?
I know of no restriction on this. MPs get to have opinions, too. I will be expressing mine on electoral reform later today, but I will not be knocking on any doors to promote it. — Garth
One more interesting lie.
You`ve all heard some say the 2 million fatherless children are the result of fathers abandoning their children.
Have any actually read the survey that this info comes from?
They quizzed bitter single mothers on welfare just looking for someone to blame who didn`t get any child support paid because the government keeps it.
They said they couldn`t interview the fathers because of privacy laws. lol, not too bias.
Garth:
Thanks for the quick reply to my previous post!
John Tory made a huge mistake with his plan for funding for religious schools. He also started the campaign with nothing except negative advertising, and spent most of his debate time attacking McGinty. Through all of this he did very little to tell voters what he stood for…mainly just bashed the Liberals. McGinty (like him or not) stood tough on his health care tax and focused on a few key issues… improvements with public education and modest progress on health care performance. He picked up momentum during the campaign and it is now very doubtful that Tory will recover. Perhaps some lessons for Dion and company in all of this in the next election. Take a firm stand on some critical issues, deflect the personal barbs and smears, and go after the voters HEARTS not their fears.
By Georgine on 10.03.07 4:11 am
Hello Georgine, Charles here. The first concert friends and I saw was FZ & The Mothers at a bullring in Barcelona, Spain, and it was a terrific 2 – 3 hour show.
Since then, I have been fortunate enough to see Queen, Bob Dylan, Muddy Waters, ZZ Top, Neil Young & Crazy Horse and Pink Floyd.
All great shows!
Bush vetoes bill to expand kids’ health insurance program
So much for the next generation. The dumbass can’t even maintain the cannon fodder for the next war.
You should really stick to a topic that you actually have knowledge or are you still trying to find one topic that would match?
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.03.07 10:26 am
(Try that again)
You should really stick to a topic that you actually have knowledge or are you still trying to find one topic that would match?
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.03.07 10:26 am
(Ah, missing HTML closure)
You should really stick to a topic that you actually have knowledge or are you still trying to find one topic that would match?
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.03.07 10:26 am
And you should spend far less time here making your assinine comments, and more reading real history.
Sux,
I delivered a movie line to Sean, but I’m sure he appreciates having you protect him seeing as he’s just a wimpy little cheat (does you boss know how long you spend on line Sean?) with a pretend life.
And as for your suspect stats, James me boy, I do see that they are available at all the best “poor me, pity the poor guy” sites out there. !0 year old study that’s been debunked. Any follow up? Nope.
You are sick. I’m worried what you might do to that new grandchild of yours. I don’t think you can be trusted.
By got rope? on 10.03.07 12:34 pm
Do you honestly think people here are so stupid as to believe this crap? Peddle it on one of your pity party forums Sux.
You said you were leaving several times. Soon now?
By Charles Oxley on 10.03.07 4:39 pm
The very first live concert I went to was Muddy Waters in the Gardens here in Vancouver. Remember it like it was yesterday. A few Dylan’s, Joni Mitchell, Pink Floyd (I loved Pink Floyd) 10cc,
Steely Dan… hehe, I went to Bob Dylan the day before my daughter was born…I was big as a house but everyone was so nice, security escorted me to my seat and would drop by to make sure I was ok.
Now my son works at GM Place and occasionally gets tickets for concerts for me (and his sister and his wife so we take turns). BB King, Sarah McLaughlin, NY Rangers:) I don’t go out as much as I used to and I turned down the Spice Girls when those came available.
Live is so much fun. There is on YouTube some Frank and the Mothers in Spain. Probably the show you were at. You should do a quick search for it. I had a great time listening to him last night. I never did see him live:(
Geo
What’s this from?
Is that a Sears poncho or is that a Mexican poncho?
Sux,
I delivered a movie line to Sean, but I’m sure he appreciates having you protect him seeing as he’s just a wimpy little cheat (does you boss know how long you spend on line Sean?) with a pretend life.
And as for your suspect stats, James me boy, I do see that they are available at all the best “poor me, pity the poor guy†sites out there. !0 year old study that’s been debunked. Any follow up? Nope.
You are sick. I’m worried what you might do to that new grandchild of yours. I don’t think you can be trusted.
By Georgine on 10.04.07 1:40 am
What boss Georgine? I thought you said I don’t work? Now come on, which is it? You’ve got to keep your stories straight here, can’t keep changing things at a whim.
And you should spend far less time here making your assinine comments, and more reading real history.
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.03.07 6:07 pm
You have no idea of what you speak. Catholics believe in Hell. Anyways, this is the same guy who doesn’t believe that a plane hit the Pentagon, nor does he believe that terrorists attacked the WTC. Get lost.