Regular readers will be unsurprised to hear I argued in caucus Tuesday for war. You know why. The Harper administration has profoundly disappointed me, along with those who believed its promises and vows. Mr. Harper, I have written, is an unworthy prime minister. Scan the last million words for reasons.
Hours later the Throne Speech was delivered. It was a trap. I’d expected no less of Stephen Harper and Doug Finley. Designed to appear moderate, reasonable and conciliatory, its temperate language, so sweetly delivered by the gracious vice-monarch, befitted the most venomous and cunning vote-spitting spider.
Standing with the other MPs in the antechamber of the Senate, I listened to her read the words for a while, then wandered back down the stone corridor, past the guards in their ceremonial best, past the media throng, past the assembled guests, to the House of Commons. There I studied the text, then watched my colleagues as they streamed back to the seats, looks of obvious relief painted on some of their faces. There would be no election, they reasoned. This was not the hill.
But, it is.
First, by letting this agenda by, MPs are giving the Harper government a free pass to extend the Afghan mission until 2011, declare Kyoto dead and buried, bring back civil liberty-busting measures Parliament already rejected and turn its back on our First Nations and the people of Atlantic Canada. Sadly, the speech is also silent on the issue of fighting child poverty and salvaging manufacturing jobs being ripped away by a parity dollar.
But, worse, writing a blank cheque to Mr. Harper and his crew, is to condone and support what they have already done. Two million income trust investors, mostly seniors, were lied to and then robbed of savings. Middle-class families looking for tax relief instead saw their basic income tax rates raised. Record government spending helped fuel inflation and jack up mortgage rates. People desperate for action on climate change saw two green plans, two environment ministers and yet no results. Not a single new child care space was created after 125,000 were promised. And yet the Conservative Party of Canada found millions to spend on attack ads saying Stephane Dion is not a leader.
Even worse, Mr. Harper has little respect for democracy. Letting this speech pass would be the ultimate marker in the emasculation of Parliament, and of voters. Bad enough he threw me out for being outspoken. Worse still he threw out Bill Casey for opposing a measure that Mr. Harper later admitted was wrong. Unacceptable is the demand now that the speech, and all it contains, be passed – or an election will ensue. Suddenly a government unwelcomed by two-thirds of the voters and unsupported by a majority of MPs is disallowing dissent, amendment or debate. Had Canadians wanted a massive majority administration, it would have elected one. It did not. Mr. Harper is a fraud.
Finally, ultimately, the speech and the men and women behind it, is designed to trap and destroy those who would oppose Mr. Harper’s march to destiny. Ever political, he suspects the Liberals are unready for a flat-out national campaign, knocked off stride by recent internal events, and barely over an intense leadership battle. By bullying Parliament and Stephane Dion, he forces a decision that pits courage against strategy.
I am sure Mr. Dion’s strategists tonight are telling him to swerve around this speech, absorb some slaps, bite his tongue and buy time to gas the campaign machine. Wise advice, I’m sure.
I’m equally sure Mr. Dion’s heart and gut tell him to do the principled and brave thing, to stand up against a bully, defend those who have been betrayed and deceived and fight for the Canada he believes in. He may be behind. He may be bruised. He may be in the company of doubters.
But he is not one of them.
Stephane Dion will be speaking in the House of Commons Wednesday at 3:15 pm.
_________________________________________________________________
Online poll results as of Wednesday Oct 17, 8 am:
Bring down the government — 61%
Support the Throne Speech — 21%
Abstain from voting in House — 18%
302 comments ↓
F*ck Garth. Canada needs this government gone. Never have I been so sure about something I have so little control of.
But what do we do if we don’t win? What do we do if (god forbid) that dictatorial man gets a majority? I don’t know the answer here. I fear what he is capable of.
What’s the right move?
You’ve pretty much painted yourself into a corner in any case. Clearly you can’t vote in favour of supporting the Tories because you’ve invested most of your time in bitching about everything you could dream up to accuse them of. You can’t abstain or sick out because that’d mark you as taking the coward’s way out. Dion and the rest of the Liberal caucus have more room to manouever than you do. Dion and the rest of the Liberal caucus have considerably more wiggle room than you do.
Hi Garth. Thank you for always keeping it real for us.
I’d just like to say that as a past riding president, wannabe future candidate, Dion delegate, I am fully prepared to accept Harper’s invitation to an immediate election.
I will not be hijacked by this imposter of a Prime Minister. He continues to leave me feeling embarassed to be a Canadian every time he opens his mouth on foreign affairs and climate change.
I’d also love to call Mr. Layton’s bluff and vote against this speech. Jack is no longer a man of principal. He has simply become an angry man yelling at a camera.
Go for it tomorrow Garth. I’m with you and my leader.
Cheers,
Jim
Whatever is true, whatever is just, whatever is honest…these things will always win out…
Waiting may only prolong the inevitable. It may give some breathing room. It may unite. It may divide. It may reveal.
These are all speculations of what might be.
However, there is never a “better time”, or a “more opportune time”, there is only a *right* time.
If an election is inevitable, so be it. If the GG offers otherwise, fine. Let the cards fall where they may, and know that, as long as you have the interests of Canadians at heart, as long as you are for making Canada a better place, what is just is on your side.
And it is time…
Austin
Canadians don’t want election now: Dion
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:16 PM EDT
OTTAWA (Reuters) – The Liberals will wait until Wednesday before providing a formal response to the minority Conservative government’s policy speech, but are aware that Canadians don’t want a new election now, Liberal leader Stephane Dion said.
Dion told reporters the party would discuss the speech at its caucus meeting on Wednesday. “The priority of Canadians is that this Parliament works and there is not a third election in 3-1/2 years,” he said.
Two opposition parties have already said they will not back the policy speech, so the Conservative government needs support, or at least tacit support, from the Liberals to stay in power.
———————————————————————————–
This just about sums it up for Dion and the Liberals .. unless he suddenly reverses himself, again.
What Dion fails to mention is that Canadians do not want him either … and that is why they don’t want an election.
If there was an election, there would only be one choice for prime minister .. NOT Dion .. NOT Layton .. and certainly NOT Duceppe (although more Quebecers preferred Duceppe as PM than Dion in the May SES poll on leader popularity .. LOL) … the only choice being that of Stephen Harper .. who is no longer “scary” as you Liberals desperately repeat in your futility.
Screw the strategists. The polls right now mean nothing. We’ve all seen fortunes reverse themselves in an instant in these situations. None of it means a damn until the writ is dropped and Dion is free to do his thing.
I said it before – show courage and conviction and the Liberals will win respect, if nothing else. Back down and it might be decades before anyone votes for you again, because it will be clear that it’s all about winning and nothing to do with principle.
If you don’t believe me, read what the liberal blogs are calling you: ConservaLiberals
I got my Liberal card less than a year ago. Don’t make me regret it.
Garth, Do you want an election now as it would be easier for you to keep your seat with an election sooner then later? I am not saying that you would lose your seat in an election in 2009 just that it might be a harder go.
I think the Conservatives can win a lot of support if they can run smoothly until 2009.
. . . Mr. Harper is a fraud.
————————————–
I have a strong suspicion that you are on the right track.
ELECTION TIME, BABY!
Is this the kind of Canada we want? Because CRAP (especially Harper) is sure turning into that!
http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/40/30_40graffitigirl.html
The choice is to topple the Government now or in about three weeks when Harper’s stupid bundle of “Get Tough On Crime” crap comes. Better to choose all of these election option Garth. Better to flush this turd of a Government than to allow to float around the toilet bowl for three more weeks.
Tell Mr. Dion to flush Harper. Win or lose, the time to fight is now!
Zorph.
Okay, I agree Garth, there is no good time for an election that Canadians will never want.
And GOVERNING IS IMPORTANT.
So lets get on with the fight and make sure that the Liberals win, or die trying.
#1: Dion must hand the mantle of leadership to Bob Rae so that M. Dion can PERSONALLY handle what is going on in Quebec. Leaders worth following always get in there and get their hands dirty when the team needs help. (N.B. M. Dion should also seek the assistance of Ken Dryden, M. Bevilacqua, and M. Coderre in Quebec)
#2. M. Dion should put Michael Ignatieff in charge of the Ontario operation with David McGuinty and Gerrard Kennedy in leadership positions as well.
#3 M. Dion should publicly ask Bill Casey to join the Liberal Party as the Atlantic Lieutenant with Scott Brison operating in a leadership role or as a strong backup should Mr. Casey decline the invitation.
There are many other significant human resources that M. Dion can use to obliterate Mr. Harper, such as Garth, Mr. Goodale, Navdeep Bains, Ujjal Dosanjh, Ruby Dhalla, …
This war should be fought primarily on the ground with the first consideration being the Canadian people and their geographic regions, and secondarily in the media with big-time campaigner and leader Bob Rae constantly attacking Mr. Harper for his lies, failues, and bullying over the past 20 months while setting out a compelling Vision of Canada for all Canadians.
Fundraising will be extremely important so donate whatever you can READERS OF GARTH’s BLOG by clicking here
(Note: Scroll down and fill in all of the required information, then click the SUMIT button. ***IMPORTANT*** You will get a screen thanking you for your donation if your donation has been submitted successfully – Please keep trying until you get the thankyou screen)
And on election day, VOTE for the MOST ELECTABLE NON-Conservative candidate in your riding.
Let’s get rid of Mr. Harper and his New Conservative MPs.
Sincerely,
MB
I saw Dion on ctv today after the speech and in him saw a very conflicted man. He tore on for a few minutes about how nothing in speech was reasonable, obviously very angry. He sounded like he wanted to pick a fight on this speech. Then he paused, took a breath, and said something to effect of “I’ll talk to my people and get back to you guys tomorrow.”
After the day Dion has had I have no idea what decisions he’ll make. Unfortunately for him, I’m not sure if their is a right one….
its only a trap if u fall for it, if dion is smart, he will take on harp, and eliminate the trap into a slap…
Liberals are a bunch of whips and liars.
For the non-sheep like readers out there did you notice when Dion was talking about triggering an election earlier this year, the “cost” of the election wasn’t an issue to him then. It’s only an issue when he doesn’t want an election.
The Liberals definition of principled definitely isn’t my definition.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
I would have to agree that the value of the Canadian dollar, global trade and the soft US ecomony(our largest trading block) is killing job at home.
I have a friend in Georgtown Ontario, he is a forman at a meat packers. They did ship quit a bit to the USA. They just laid off 400 people last week.
The company I work just told us last week it’s closing it only Canadian plant as of Jan 31/08 do to over capacity now at all of there north american plants. They will supply part to there Canadian costomers from there US plants. That means the Dies will be leaving Canada permanently and the presses will be going to, some to the Mexican plant and prehaps India and China also. A number of there large comstomer have moved off shore so inorder to keep the work the company set up shop there as well, and there is also compatition off the work so they need to have competative prices or they’ll loss the work.
I hope all the nice people that I work with will be able to find jobs, hopefully that pay the same???
Perhaps PMSH know the job numbers are about to get worse, with the high dollar and high oil prices, and he thinks this will be his last chance to get realected, maybe? I hope not, I’ve beem paying attention. I don’t like wear he seem to be trying to take Canada. I don’t trust him, he don’t seem to be looking out for the people of Canada!!!
Here is part of the damage they wroght on Canadian investors in general and Oil Patch Workers and their families in particular.
Conservatives signal foreign takeovers OK until next year
Well since this seems to be a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t, then damnit do it.
Obviously there are the wrong people in the positions Dion needs in crucial areas such as Quebec that are really screwing this up for the party completely. Which is probably a good thing as he will need to re-organize things to his liking and needs. If he wont re-shuffle things or lay down the law then I guess we are destined to have continuation of the CPCs now.
What safeguards did your web wizards put in place to see that your online poll wouldn’t be freeped?
The Canadian Historical Society learned the hard way when SoCon bloggers piled into the Worst Canadian online poll.
I believe the CBC may have had a freeped poll, it’s not like agenda driven onliners don’t consider freeping a sport in Canada.
It may be a feel good, participatory hawk/dove exercise for your readers, but it would be helpful if people knew:
a) what safeguards are in place
b) what you want/need the poll for
Blog on!
Conciliatory Harper is not! He’s just playing more stategic games. Dion needs to force this conservative government to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. The troops have done their part and suffered heavy casualties to do so…time is long overdue for other NATO nations to step up to the plate and do their share. Dion needs to make that part of his campaign to regain control of the government on behalf of his fellow Canadians. He must not allow Harper to appoint his little committees outside the authority of the House of Commons. Tell Dion I said so and you have my permission to send him my e-mail address if he’d like verification of what I authorized you to do.
I WANT MY CANADA BACK!
M. Dion,
You know in your heart that this government has got to fall before they can do more damage to Canada and Canadians. Lowering the GST is only giving the biggest consumers a break – and foregoing revenue that could be used to cut the lowest tax rates. Extending the current mission to Afghanistan is folly. Changing the mission to peacekeeping after 2009 is not ‘cutting and running’, but showing that Canada is not to be used by other countries who refuse to put their own citizens’ lives on the line, but spout the Bush-inspired rhetoric about human rights and values. What about the human rights in Darfor and Burma? Why Afganistan? Why are we supporting a corrupt government, war lords and an ever-increasing poppy harvest? Who are we to think that a country that has always had unrest is going to suddenly become a western-style democracy because we have bigger guns than they do?
Getting tough on crime sounds great, but what about addressing the causes – child poverty, illiteracy, disenfranchised youth – instead of just locking away the ‘bad guys’ for ever-increasing periods of time. And why do we want to make criminals of the hefty percentage of our productive population who choose to smoke a joint, rather than drink themselves silly? Where’s the crime?
What about the environment? The current government has taunted your party for doing nothing, but what have they done in their time in government? The majority of MPs voted for tougher policy, but that’s being ignored. Every day this government is allowed to stay in power, unchecked, is another day that we lose a little bit of the Canada I grew up with and was proud of.
Please, M. Dion, give us back our Canada.
Well presented Garth.I watched and listened as the verbal diarreah was presented.No surprises there.Harper is a snake hiding in the tall grass.Time to have a brushfire and watch him slither away.We should not be governed by a tyrant holding a gun to voters’ heads.Make my day and have the Libs join theNDP and the BLOC pull the plug.
I see more than Trees in the Forest of Reform, now the questions will Canadains? and for that I intend to speak with the only tool I have, words:
I want my Canada Back! I love those words, yes Ladies and Gentlemen, the Canada that we grew grew up in, the Canada I was raised in with all it faults, the Canada I was proud of, the Canada where we had leadership not ‘Dictatorship” where the Bully the on Hill is more concerned about a “White House” rather than “”Our House”". I want my children and grandchildren to have at minimum the standard of living I enjoyed in Canada. Where I turned on a TV and the PM of Canada was talking to Canadians, not talking down to Canadians. My Canada is unique not in the image of George “Dubya” Bush but in the memories of gallant men and women who came to-gether from coast to coast to coast and fought for freedom of speech and for the right to be heard via there elected representative in Ottawa, who are now told to sit and listen to a “Dictator” spell out rules of what to say, where to say it and to whom to talk to. Dam it I want may Canada back, the question is do you?
Thnaks Garth…….
Cowards die thousand deaths, brave ones only once. If Alexander the Great were a cautious warlord, he would have never left Macedonia and conquered the civilized world.
Fortune favors the bold.
So what if the Conservative wins again, it will still be minority government with that rehash Throne Speech. The speech which has no vision, no courageous move, no plan for the future, no self-imposed obligations, but replete with vindictive plans to incarcerate all erring Canadians youths and old alike, will not appeal to the voters.
No one wants election, but also no one wants to be bullied until 2009. That is two (2)years of cowardice and kowtowing. If federal elections will be finally called in 2009, what will the Liberals present to the Canadians as possible Prime Minister? A certified weakling who has endured two (2) years of abuses and harassments? And if he wins, how will he lead? A big compromiser?
With such vague policies with no commitments, how can the Liberals make the Conservatives account for their promises in the Throne Speech?
I predict Dion will accommodate and wait for time when he will bring down the government. The risk of that, of course, is that how about if PM Stephen Harper, the holy shrewdness, will engineer a defeat of his government when the polls point to a majority. Where will that bring Dion?
The problem with the Liberals is that the party is aggressive. modern and innovative but the Leader is more conservative than PM Harper.
It is only to be expected. Dion won the Liberal convention because of the covenant he had with Gerard Kennedy. Dion is a very cautious player and politician who only enters into a contest if he is sure he will win.
With a very shrewd and cunning Harper, a cautious opponent will not succeed. He will always be outsmarted by Harper. Harper can be beaten by an innovative leader who thinks out of the box.
Good luck!
The ‘average’ Canadian doesn’t really care much about politics until it affects them. I worked the advance polls for the Ontario election and for thosee 10 days it is safe to say that well over 50% didn’t have a clue what the referendum was about.
During the Throne speech the phrase “the government is clean” came up (or something to that effect). It sent chills down my spine.
If each liberal MP could vote as he/she believes the constituents from their riding would want, then that would be democracy in action.
Unfortunately, the majority of Canadians will buy into the Throne speech, just like the majority of American bought into Bush’s rhetoric.
By not addressing poverty Harper left behind a vast majority of Canadians. His many promises cannot be met.
Unfortunately, the majority of Canadians will find out too late, when the next election is called. I don’t think it will be this year, or next year. As it stands now, no one is running this country except Mr. Harper and that doesn’t seem to be going to change.
You’ve pretty much painted yourself into a corner in any case. – JOHN L
I completely agree.
Garth;
If you abstain, you’re a coward.
If you vote for the speach after all the bitching and complaining you’ve done against Stephen Harper and the Conservatives, then you have no integrity.
I’m a Conservative and I would like to see Mr. Harper and the Conservatives govern for a few more years.
However, if you vote against the speach, my confidence in you will be greatly restored.
Dion and the rest of the Liberal caucus have considerably more wiggle room than you do.
By John L on 10.17.07 12:46 am
Why don’t you go into your room to “wiggle” instead of leaving intelligent remarks Mr. Know-it-all?
By John L on 10.17.07 12:46 am
Beyond SILLY …. IDIOTIC is more appropriate. The majority here are ready to go to war … That’s exactly what it is … WAR! I’m not going to give up MY COUNTRY to Harper Goons! Mikey Wallace had better be ready to CRAP in his drawers.
Screw the strategists. Save six for pall bearers.
I say WE GO! Thanks to The Hon. Garth and Brent Fullard, we’re ready.
I WANT MY CANADA BACK!
Boy, Garth, your Mr. Dion is in a pickle for sure! The two minutes he did speak last night, he trashed the Speech. How can he save face now if he supports the Government? Obviously, he hates the Speech and thinks it’s bad for Canada. I’d say unless he really wants to look wishy-washy and weak, he has no choice but to throw Canada into an election.
I’d wish you a good day Garth, but that would be stupid. The brownies Garth, the brownies! Leasa
‘Come into my nice warm fetid house,’ said the spider to the fly.
Harper offers few details on tax relief
Globe and Mail, Canada – 1 hour ago
OTTAWA — Stephen Harper teased Canadians and businesses with a promise of tax relief in yesterday’s Throne Speech, but offered few details on the goodies …
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071017.BUSINESS17/TPStory/National
Mr. Ignatieff’s comments about the TS being a menu was spot on. The question is about the dishes (individual bills) and the ingredients (specific measures) they contain.
In particular the crime bill. As the TS stated there are some timely and important measures. There are also some measures that need to be removed. (Hold the onions!)
The question is will the chef (Mr. Harper) oblige?
On Afghanistan, I understood the TS. to mean that the PM. wanted to keep our troops there until 2011, but the continuation of the combat mission after 2009 was still up for debate.
However, given that the PM has said any defeat will be a non confidence vote, you can bet the motion for the Afghnaistan debate will be to continue the combat mission until 2011.
On the environment, Kyoto targets are gone. Sorry Garth, thats now a fact given governments of both stripes haven’t got it done. The issue is PM’s plans. 60% reduction sounds good. But are these intensity reductions or absolute, and on what years emmissions are they based?
Finally, I noted there were a couple of outright lies in the TS.
1. Canada united … only through blue tinted welding goggles
2. Clean government .. thats not what Elections Canada is saying.
The more I think about it, the more I’m led to the conclusion that this government has be be brought down now.
The menu may look good, but look into the larder to see what’s going into the dishes. I don’t think they are palitable!
Courage indeed, Garth, all progressive Canadians are going to need courage to mop up the tide of conservatism that is seeping into our politics.
Mr. Harper himself is not the problem, though; it’s the conservatism that he champions that’s harmful to Canadians and Canada. Conservatism is an ideology of the past. Conservatism disdains government, courage, freedom, life and prosperity for all.
Conservatism is full of contradictions because conservatives don’t know what they stand for:
- Conservatives oppose “big” government but they support “big” defence, “big” privatization, “big” corporate welfare and “big” deficits
- Conservatives believe in national security but they allow a foreign country to manage security at a major Canadian port of entry
- Conservatives support freedom but they oppose measures to expand freedoms within Canada
- Conservatives are strong but they cannot stand up to authority
- Conservatives support regulations to protect gun owners but they oppose regulations to protect gun owners’ health
- Conservatives oppose corruption but they support with Canadian lives governments that are corrupt
- Conservatives cherish individual liberties but they oppose measures that protect individuals from a majority
- Conservatives oppose abortion but do nothing to reduce it
- Conservatives are pro life but they oppose measures to preserve life, protect life and nurture life
- Conservatives say they have family values but they oppose measures to help Canadian families thrive
- Conservatives believe in accountability but they assume no responsibility for decisions that hurt others
Conservatism is not the solution, it’s the problem. The history of Canada sees conservative ideas and prejudices falling away as we grow more progressive and more true to our country’s founding ideals. All the major advancements of freedom, security and justice in Canada’s short history that were pushed or are being pushed by progressives were or are opposed by conservatives. From the time of the War of 1812, advancing freedom, equality and justice has been the centrepiece of progressive policies in Canada and conservatives want to take these advancements away, one at a time, slowly so we don’t notice.
Conservatives are everyone you never wanted to be. Conservatism is PM Stephen Harper telling the provinces to sue him. Conservatism is Rodney Macdonald campaigning on family values while having an affair with another woman. Conservatives are cowards who hope you are a coward, too. It’s beating children in the name of discipline. Conservatism is Mike Harris. It’s Stockwell Day saying the earth is 6000 years old. Conservatism is Jerry Falwell watching “Teletubbies” frame by frame to see if Tinky Winky is trying to turn him gay.
I’m a progressive Canadian and I’m with you, Garth, because progressives say, “We’re all in this together.”
Conservatives say, “Sorry, you’re on your own.”
-R
Has anyone considered that this next election could be the last in Canadian history? If Harper is prepared to pull the stunts he is doing now does anyone think we will have any elections in the future if he does get a majority? History has a nasty habit of repeating itself if we don’t learn from it
Bill_Whitehorse YT.
I’d wish you a good day Garth, but that would be stupid. The brownies Garth, the brownies! Leasa
By Leasa on 10.17.07 7:35 am
I think an election would make Garth’s and a lot of other peoples’ day!
Have a nice day L.
A few points here. Seems that Dion has told all MPs not to speak to the press yesterday. Interesting, sounds a lot like Harper.
Mauril Belanger was on the radio today and he very much hinted about not forcing an election.
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/Mauril_Belanger_Oct17.mp3
So, according to Garth, if the Liberal Party doesn’t vote against the budget, Dion is not principled, nor is he brave but is a coward.
I am sure Mr. Dion’s strategists tonight are telling him to swerve around this speech, absorb some slaps, bite his tongue and buy time to gas the campaign machine. Wise advice, I’m sure.
One last point, why would Dion listen to his strategists? I thought he listens to his fellow Liberal MPs?
Can you change it so when an election is called, the people running have to pay for it rather than the tax payers? I bet there would be far fewer elections that way. When it’s someone else’s money then hey, no problem.
On another note, is anyone deluded enough to think anything will really change if the Liberals are in power? We need new blood in parliament, people who haven’t been corrupted by power yet. Of course, that will never happen because people are idiots and will vote in the same shitty people who screwed them over before. If you don’t believe me then just look at how Dalton won a majority in Ontario.
I WANT MY CANADA BACK!
By CAL on 10.17.07 7:27 am
Geesh! Cal, Mr. Harper is working on that. He will need a good 4 years with a majority to undo all the damage done by the previous Lib. government. Be patient.
James…you have a nice day also. I know I will. Leasa
Hey, I’m an ethnic! Why am I not CPC accessible … Oops, that’s right, they prefer Slav[e]s to Slavs.
Their ‘ethnic’ outreach
To begin with, they should be careful in the future not to use Canadian Heritage resources for such blatantly partisan projects. They also need to learn that the term “ethnic†is inelegant and politically incorrect in this context; all Canadians are of one or more ethnicity. “New Canadian†would better serve the Tories’ purposes. The decision to apply the strategy to the Toronto-area riding of Thornhill, and produce a paper trail that states explicitly that “79 per cent of visible minorities are viewed as CPC accessible communities,†only invites problems. How would you feel if you were deemed not “CPC accessible�
Brought to you compliments of a Jason Kenney manipulation. It’s more than a trial CONDOM this time. See previous, papal DUNCIO, Ottawa-NewPeon, Sean P. Hogan. (HIC!)
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20071017/EETHNIC17/Editorials/commentEditorials/commentEditorials/3/3/3/
Garth always talked about how Mr. Dion is couragous and principled (unlike Mr. Harper).
If so, the decision is easy.
If Mr. Dion believes that the speach is bad for Canadians, and Canadians by-and-large are against it, he should vote against it. If he is truely speaking for Canadians, Canadians will reward him in an election.
If he votes for a speach that he does not believe in (which I believe will be the case), he is a hypocrite.
Kyoto has been finished for a long time.
The only way we can meet reduction levels for Kyoto would be to send millions in credit dollars to China, India and other third world countries. This makes no sense as we should use that money to improve our own environment.
Leasa, how on earth can you be so naive. The Throne Speech was set up like a State of the Union Address in Washington. He had the RCMP officer who was killed family there – this totally made me sick to politicize a tragedy – but hey, Bush does this when he addresses the nation. If you study the crime policies of the US – identical my dear. The environment plan – Bush’s.
I watched a couple of economists speaking yesterday and they said Harper’s economic plan had absolutely no vision and was just a vote getter. I heard economists say they heard Dion speak at the Economic Club and were quite inspired by what he said.
I just realized – Harper is truly a lazy man. 4 months off and this is all the vision he comes up with?
The changes that Harper wants make for Canada (as advised by Tom Flannigan – American born who came here in 1968) has all the earmarks of his American Republican roots – wake up.
Nic Nanos felt this Throne Speech was not worth calling an election – Nanos of SES said Harper wouldn’t get a majority at this point.
The only one positive for me would be if we had an election and the Liberals did win, even a minority, Harper would be out on his ass – that may be worth it.
And, I’m tired of Quebec controlling the rest of the country – you should be too if you cared about your own province.
Mr. Harper is working on that. He will need a good 4 years with a majority to undo all the damage done by the previous Lib. By Leasa on 10.17.07 8:02 am
By which time the US. will look like it has 60 states and 3 territories!
As I listened to the throne speech, I could hve sworn the PM. used Mr. Bush’s speech writters. He probably did.
That’s not the Canada I know or want.
The only problem with an election, and possibly another minority, is that until the parties can start working together, the country will stagnate. Just look at the UK in the 60’s with Messr’s Wilson and Heath, left, right, left, right. Legislation passed, repealed, passed, repealed.
It took Mrs. Tatcher to sort out the mess. Now if Mr. Harper were to adopt the same approach as her early years, we may get somewhere. But his “all or nothing” crap is more like Mrs.T’s later years.
I really don’t want an election, and I suspect many who are calling for the government to be brought down, don’t want one either. What we want is for the PM to realise he is in a minority and work with the other parties to put aside ideology and work for what Canadians want. That’s the madate he was given.
Unfortunately, the PM’s not doing this.
He wants a majority, he wants to do it his way, all the way, or not at all.
An election, therefore, will be his solely responsibility and I hope the outcome will forfill his wish of “not at all.”
BTW. Did you see the US. Ambassador’s face when the mapping of the NW Passage and Artic was announced. I think the PM is right on this, but you could say he did a Jean Cretien and po’d the US!
I guess there’s always something good on a bad menu!
MB, your 1:27, HEAR, HEAR!
Jose Escalora, your 6:24, you took the “Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant taste of death but once” right out of my mouth.
Garth, it is time to either suck or blow. As one TV analyst said last night, the Libs can chose to be humiliated now, in a few months, or any number of times in between.
Specify what the Harper Government has done, how this has worked out, what continuation in office may lead to, what the Libs would do, and put the case to the people. If you (collectively) are humiliated on a clear and honest platform, it won’t be your fault, and we will deserve everything we may get.
As your constituent, I urge you to vote against the throne speech.
Yes, please vote against the speech.
We need Stephan to get in there and meet the Kyoto targets. The world is at stake!
I guess there’s always something good on a bad menu!
By James- Chatham on 10.17.07 8:34 am
If one takes off the partisan blinders, there were a lot of good things on this menu. Can you imagine we have a segment of Canadians who are not allowed to file human rights abuse complaints! That is so wrong on so many levels. Harper intends, as he said to change this. Kudos! Mr. Harper! Yay! L
By Rob Wiebe on 10.17.07 7:44 am
Great post Rob.
“Tis grand stuff you wrote,GARTH…fighting words. If not now ..when? There is rot in the Liberal Party…the self serving narcistic louts. An election will help weed these miscreants out…many of these nobodies have already left like rats deserting a sinking ship. Look at what Mulrooney did to the Conservative Party…Cretien, the creep, is doing the same thing to the Liberals. Throw the ballast overboard, steady the ship and like the Bluenose, bring the bow into the wind, take the strain and take the pain and WIN. The Cons will flounder on the shoals of mendacity and delusion. Who knows, perhaps we will see the rebirth of the real Conservative party…certainly , we will see a stnonger Liberal one emerge. Harpers vision reaches to the end of his nose and as the nose grows so grows the vision. Let Dion’s vision shine and we, the people, will speak.
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the party. There is a strength in the union even of very sorry men.
The contents of the throne speech are pretty irrelevant. I was initially convinced by the “wait and see what it says” argument, but waiting for it to be delivered, I realized that we’ve already been given the contents.
The contents are: sit down, shut up, vote aye, wave at the camera, go home.
Kick the bums out. We need fresh bums.
Harper’s 2011 statement warrants bringing down the Government.
Inhale, exhale. I don’t know how to vote on you poll. What I want is for this PM to be vapourized. However, if the LPC has any continuance of the muck they have made of things, an election is unlikely to accomplish that.
Respectfully, LPC, can we not get our act together?
Watching the news this morning, reading the web, and the blog…I think Mr. Dion is playing it smart right now – by discussing with his caucus, and saying that Canadians don’t want an election. He is being pragmatic.
He is able to offer amendments to the TS, correct? He should he should make Harper give specifics, as opposed to the vagueness that was offered yesterday. He should make Mr. Harper clarify his position on Afganistan and the Environment. Assuming that the PM won’t give more specifics, he should vote down the TS, because the Harper is asking for a blank cheque.
That way, the election call will be put back squarely on the Conservatives. That’s the game being played right now – the Cons want to accuse the Liberals, NDP and Bloc of forcing an election. Throw it back at them.
Abstaining from the vote should not be considered. It is a cowards way out, and Mr. Dion would lose credibility.
If you (collectively) are humiliated on a clear and honest platform, it won’t be your fault, and we will deserve everything we may get.
By Herb on 10.17.07 8:34 am
As your constituent, I urge you to vote against the throne speech.
By pjw on 10.17.07 8:36 am
Two firm positions I heartily agree with
Garth:
I noticed David Wilkins, the US Ambassador there – why is he there? This is “Canadian” business. Wilkins, a true Bush supporter who got his position because he campaigned for Bush and donated $200,000 to the Bush campaign and Wilkins is an American softwood lumber protectionist – it’s in the records.
Why is he attending the “Canadian” Throne Speech?
The gun lobby has a saying “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” It probably applies to politics as well. Politicians don’t elect themselves. People elect politicians. I take the recent Ontario election as a positive sign that people will judge politicians based on the policies they present. So all the Liberals have to do is come up with some kick ass policies. Waiting for Harper’s poll numbers to go down puts all the power in his hands. Give the power to the people to chose the direction they want to take the country. Don’t let Harper decide for us by default. Is that 2 cents yet?
Good luck Garth!
I know it’s tradition. That’s one of the reasons it has to be changed!
Last night, our elected representatives listened to the Throne proclamation from outside a barrier, crowded into a hallway. This is not right.
Unelected Judiciary and unelected Senate
occupied the seats. This is not democratic.
Our Prime Minister sat to the side, one step down from the vice-monarch. This must be changed.
Liberals and Conservatives have too long supported this tradition as they have cooperated on all matters that determined Canada’s path. There is no essential difference between these two parties. Ask yourself why the Liberals have allowed themselves to be so weakened.
With each majority of either party, the country takes further steps in the wrong direction. The citizens are being manipulated and the chasm widens.
This elitism must change, if we expect to see change. Otherwise, our country is lost.
Workers, Activists, Seniors, must finally take control of the country’s direction.
Harper doesn’t want an election???
>Ed Holder, the Tory candidate in London West, is doling out campaign-style literature in Liberal-held London West as Stephen Harper’s throne speech last night heated up talk of a fall federal election. “
Congrats and good timing to Dion for the Quebec flap.
The last paragraph of the Throne Speech is spooky. I’d break ranks to stand “No” on the final vote if I had to.
when the baiting starts, pretend your kids are there.
I tired of politicians and newspeople telling me what I want or don’t want. I’m not tired of voting. Its the only real voice I have regarding government. Its 30 days of politicians campaigning and one day of marking an X. Anyone who gets fatigued by that must be some major league couch potato.
I want my opportunity to vote. I want my say. The pundants can speak for themselves. And I would appreciate it if they would stop making pronouncements on behalf of the electorate.
By slg on 10.17.07 9:25 am
Yes and it took all of 3 seconds for it to find its way to the shredder.
It would appear Ed wants an election.
Garth,
A lot of people have criticized the TS because what is not in it. But, what about what is in it. Suggestion for one of your posts: a point by point critique of the throne speech. What’s good? What’s bad? Why?
Catherine; Respectfully, LPC, can we not get our act together?
The short answer, IMO, is that the Liberals can’t get their act together under the current leadership…
Dion’s judgement is poor*** and the Liberal party will continue to deteriorate until he is replaced.
*** witness the fact that he just promoted Garth Turner a couple of weeks ago and Garth returns the favour by “calling him out” on his blog. Brilliant move.
I serve my country, as does Stephane Dion. — Garth
Jack will do it! Don’t worry.
http://www.ndp.ca/page/5787
We need Stephan to get in there and meet the Kyoto targets. The world is at stake!
Kyoto is dead; heck it was never really alive. The only thing that the Liberals did of any note was Rick Mercer’s “One Tonne Challenge”.
It is time to drop the word “Kyoto” from our vocabulary in regards to climate control.
Inaction mainly by the previous government, followed by inaction from the current government has made any reasonable approach to those targets moot.
I serve my country, as does Stephane Dion
I don’t denigrate Mr. Dion’s motives… but you serve no-one but yourself.
Now that I’ve read the speech: I vote to pull the plug on this government of deceit…..too bad your poll won;t accept my considered response, as I previously did not vote, but rather submitted the question of “I will await the text of the Throne Speech before judging its content or intent”
#
Sorry, but this form is limited to one submission per user.
# In the coming confidence vote in Parliament, should the opposition parties:
Pull the plug on the Conservative government?
Support the government and avoid an election?
Abstain from voting?
# Any brief comments you wish to add?
I prefer to read something and understand it fully before reacting prematurely
Eh Garth –
It’s a test of integrity in my opinion.
The Liberals can pick up points for standing up for what they believe in rather than acquiescing to Conservative “incrementalism”.
We cannot write Harper a blank check on Afghanistan (until 2011), on the Environment (ignorance), and on the ignorance of poverty and the critical issue of cities.
If you (collectively) are humiliated on a clear and honest platform, it won’t be your fault, and we will deserve everything we may get.
By Herb on 10.17.07 8:34 am
As your constituent, I urge you to vote against the throne speech.
By pjw on 10.17.07 8:36 am
Two firm positions I heartily agree with
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 10.17.07 9:16 am
Its a trifecta, Larry, Moe and Curly.
Well if the cons do not get an election now , they will never ,ever have a chance again. With all the criminal probes going on , soon they will not be able to claim that they are a CLEAN government.
Good morning Garth,
After a good night’s sleep, a final review of the Throne Speech, and reality here is my opinion.
Whereas, there are components of the Throne Speech that will never pass the HoC in a vote,
and whereas, those components are upcoming for a vote in the next few weeks,
and whereas such votes will be, by declaration of the PM Confidence votes.
I see no reason to prolong the removal of this thorn from Canada’s collective being.
Vote DOWN the Throne Speech, and let it be known WHY to the people. That is the key. If Stephane Dion must buy air time to get the reasons out, then do so. It will produce far more benefits than the plethora of silly, meaningless, attack ads like the last campaign. Use a the fireside chat method, and talk to the Canadian people.
Address the root cause of our crime problems, because that will be a lead topic, and we do need to get our legal system revised. Too many repeat criminals are amongst us. They simply laugh at the Courts. But do so with a real plan, a real solution, and it must be very balanced to address the needs of those who need counseling, while locking up those who think their crimes are a okay.
As to gun crime. My attitude is straight forward. Commit a crime with a handgun and you will locked up a minimum of 10 years. Second offense is mandatory life imprisonment. If they are an immigrant and commit a gun crime, then deport them back to where they came from. Enough of the gangbanger gun crap.
We either act now or will end of being the Wild West North. I know from personal experience what living in a land of gun totting criminals is like. Canada does not need that experience.
I also want to see prison time for environmental crimes, and White collar criminals. Their assets seized, and they be made to pay back to the victims, not the government kitty, what they stole.
Forget the pot user as we have sufficient laws for their acions if under the influence, and let that no be used as an excuse for committing a crime. They made both the choice to use, and the choice to commit the crime. Institute the equivalent of a Sweat Lodge and make them face the victims and their community. Cut the bleeding of our economy by cutting off the lawyers who are the problem. We are wasting billions chasing the wrong people.
Give help to the addicted, and lock the dealers up. Get really tough on organized crime as well. In short, we need to be harsher on these criminals than we just got on reackless speeders on Ontario’s highways. Make it so painful they will never forget.
But, at the same time no U.S. style justice of locking up everyone for less violent crimes. There are a lot of people in need and they should be able to obtain help when they need it, and as soon as possible.
Stay positive, responsive, in communication with the people, and that will be seen (because it is) as REAL LEADERSHIP!
The leader leads not merely a party or caucus, but the people.
I know the back room strategists will be ranting not to do this or that. Are they so inbred to the past that they cannot see the present would be my question?
Have a good day. I will be watching this afternoon on CPAC. Until then, Peace!
Be careful what you ask for. You may say “screw the polls, anything can happen after the writ is dropped” and you’re right. Anything can happen. The Liberal infighting could continue, Harper could hit a few home runs, and before you know it the Conservatives could have a small majority. Stranger things have happened. Not that I wouldn’t mind.
Kerry Busse
” I serve my country”
Garth, serve your constituents first!
Garth,I understand this may be your last day in Liberal caucus.
That you cannot serve in a party that instructs certain of its members not to be in parliament to take part in a vote.
It will be good to see you again independent,where you can speak freely and represent your constituents..
By Lawrence Garvin on 10.17.07 9:38 am
YA, Lawrence nothing would be better if Garth and all supporters of Dion just acted like “Yes” men. Not going to happen, budy. Garth calls it out the way he sees it, that is his power and his strength, a strength and power Harper hated and tried to squash.
PULL THE PLUG ON HARPER!!!!
By David M on 10.17.07 9:31 am
Hear! Hear! I am too. The likes of Chantel Hebert, who is so pro-Quebec is insulting. Oddly enough, Andrew Coyne makes more sense usually in his analysis.
Greg, the pollster, said it pretty straight last night. But when they attempt to say ‘I (meaning me) believe this’ then they cross the line.
Way too much opinion, and far too little facts provided for people to make up their own minds.
Garth, good idea on a point by point analysis of the TS. My opinion was stated in the ‘22 Does Caucus’ topic last night.
My conclusion it was the ‘State of Union North’ delivered by Bush’s Buddy Harper.
The poor GG had to read all that diatribe. Even Wilkins, the U.S. Ambassador was wincing at some of the comments, either from asking ‘Why can’t my country have a speech like this (BS as it mostly was), or he was aghast at Harper making the same errors Bush has made?
Harper doesn’t want an election???
>Ed Holder, the Tory candidate in London West, is doling out campaign-style literature in Liberal-held London West as Stephen Harper’s throne speech last night heated up talk of a fall federal election. “
By slg on 10.17.07 9:25 am
Thankfully, he’s ready to go. That’s the least one would expect. He’d be an idiot if he wasn’t ready, given the ball’s in Stephan “we must have an election, and we must get back in power” Dion.
At this point in time Dion is the man…he deserves our respect and especially our prayers. This is a character building moment. He will make enemies, he will make friends and may even get a bloody nose. My advice,”be wise today;tis madness to defer.” Tell Harper to go to hell.
OMG I couldn’t believe how much Her Excellency seemed like she was going to puke at certain sections like the environment but still managed to hold it. The pauses she made were haunting and I got scared. But I can understand why she would be feeling that way. With a pile of BS like that it was sure that the stench was going to overwhelm anyone reading it.
For those who have noticed the “Republican White House” in Canada, it is not a mistake. Stephen Harper has attended RNC’s for good reason. A caller once called into Rex Murphy’s show and mentioned the fact, Rex quickly (and he is quick) said what’s the big deal, so have I, the caller was thrown off track. The point that should have been made was “Stephen Harper had asspirations to become PM of Canada…..
In any rate he facts speak for themselves, there have been more broken promises and more divisions within our country since this man took office, Even our world standard has fallen. Garth has mentioned it many times c/w with facts. Even if PMSH & Co could prove (never even attempted) 50% of Garth T’s a stated facts were wtong , the remainder are not even accepted as a form of good goverment.
M. Dion has show good leadership skills and has ability to wait before he speaks on substance. He is quick on the draw to inpromptu, is he perfect, goodness no, but he is steady on his feet. If PMSH had to face the good ode scrum in front of our press, he would be doomed and many must agree he fears the day one MP may say something off script. M. Dion has allowed others to speak and accepted it. Contrast that to PMSH’s approach of not talking to the Media, and talking down to Canadians especially here in the East and any reasonable person must admitt he is indeed the real “Bully on the Hill” and a “Dictator”
Check the poll out on ctv.
http://www.ctv.ca/
Also.Thanks Garth.
Halton MP Garth Turner was the only one to publicly call for an election. He said many other Liberal MPs “are completely fed up with Mr. Harper” as well but the party must make a strategic decision on the throne speech.
“There’s no point having an election you’re not going to win,” Turner conceded
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071016/national/liberals_disarray
best comment I’ve seen in ages
Did anyone notice Jim Travers’ great article in the G&M today? I think it gives us the right direction.
http://www.thestar.com/article/267235
A lot of wasted votes.
http://www.wastedvotes.ca/?q=node/2/Federal/LATEST/0/TOP
I have heard Dion say he does not want an election but “he and his party are ready” for an election. He also said he would give Harper the fight of his life.
I hope he does not allow Harper and his gang to play with him any further.
I think intellect will prevail over gutter fighting. Yes there will be nasty attack ads. But these ads will only be appreciated by the people who have something in common with Harper and gang.
Most Canadians are decent law abiding citizens who believe in human rights and want to help the poor and needy. Those Canadians are either Liberals , NDPers or Green Party supporters and they are far more numerous than the CPC supporters.
Let’s have an election. If Dion does not win more seats than Harper Canadians will have at least been able to see that he is not weak, that he is far more eloquent than Harper, and that his party is not in disarray. And the Conservatives will stop playing games with Parliament and Canadians.
I only wonder one thing:
Now that Kyoto is dead, what will happen to poor French Citizen Dion’s dog?
Zorpheous; “Garth calls it out the way he sees it, that is his power…
If you were paying attention, you’d be aware that Dion is trying to keep his options open until he has to commit. Garth’s “strength” – as you’ve charactorized it – is an act of disloyalty to Mr. Dion. Turner was put on the sidelines because he is a short-sighted, ego-bloated blowhard who is incapable of thinking beyond the next spotlight.
Dion showed poor judgement by tieing himself to a loose cannon. Just one more regret to add to the huge pile he’s generated in quite a short time.
Harper couldn’t be worse even if he was on the CIA payroll to undermine Canada!
If one takes off the partisan blinders, there were a lot of good things on this menu. Can you imagine we have a segment of Canadians who are not allowed to file human rights abuse complaints! That is so wrong on so many levels. Harper intends, as he said to change this. Kudos! Mr. Harper! Yay! L
By Leasa on 10.17.07 8:54 am
And that’s exactly why Mr. Harper will be responsible for any election.
Especially as a minority, to expect the HoC to rubber stamp his proposals, proposals which he has been told are unacceptable but insists on reintroducing, is shear arrogance.
He then uses the fear of an election as a big stick.
If Mr. Harper were so concerned over peoples being able to file human rights complaints, or violent crime or any of the other concerns which the opposition has said they would pass without question, he would introduce them separately outside of his omnibus bills.
Even if the TS passes, we all know the PM will introduce the contraversial legislation first.
As the saying goes, “There’s nothing to fear but fear itself.”
So given an election will be triggered in the next few weeks, Mr. Dion, pull the plug now. Your credibility will be higher for doing the right thing now, rather than trying to drag out the inevitable.
OMG I couldn’t believe how much Her Excellency seemed like she was going to puke at certain sections like the environment but still managed to hold it. The pauses she made were haunting and I got scared. But I can understand why she would be feeling that way. With a pile of BS like that it was sure that the stench was going to overwhelm anyone reading it.
By Jonnay on 10.17.07 10:24 am
You obviously are projecting your dislike of Harper onto others. Please seek psychiatric help.
YA, Lawrence nothing would be better if Garth and all supporters of Dion just acted like “Yes†men. Not going to happen, budy. Garth calls it out the way he sees it, that is his power and his strength, a strength and power Harper hated and tried to squash.
PULL THE PLUG ON HARPER!!!!
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 10:14 am
But first, pull your plug out of Garth.
I love how conservatives keep on discounting Dion and calling him weak.
Media included.
Yes, keep on playing down the expectations.
Drive them nice and low.
If one takes off the partisan blinders, there were a lot of good things on this menu.
By Leasa on 10.17.07 8:54 am
Or, to use the menu analogy, there are indeed good things on the menu. Problem is they are all covered with CPC. PM. ideological BS sauce, including the desert tray.
And the chef won’t allow the sauce to be removed. He won’t even allow you to scrape it of and leave it on the side.
Its served only one way, his way.
So the choice is do we eat it as is, or do we fire the chef?
Fire the chef and all the sous-chefs with him, and for that we need an election.
Dan on 10.17.07 8:02 am said:
I agree with you on that Dan, and that is why I would encourage the GREENS to focus the MAJORITY of their resources in the WEST.
The ground is ripe for a change from the Harper Conservatives to the GREENS because of the way PM Harper has completely IGNORED the west since becoming PM.
I guess PM Harper just ASSUMES he can continue taking the west’s support for granted and put all his energy into Quebec and Ontario… just like all of the other Prime Ministers that came before Harper seemed to do.
Isn’t Mr. Harper originally from Ontario?
Well, it just seems to me that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
The GREENS should give the WEST a real voice!
Sincerely,
MB
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 10:14 am
But first, pull your plug out of Garth.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 11:10 am
Wow, how mature. Hey Sean, you let me know when you have something intelligent to say, cause I certainly wouldn’t want to miss a once in a life moment like that.
Harper and Flaherty have sold Canada down the river!
Exhibit A
The deductibility of interest in corporate debt makes it the tax equivalent of income trust distributions. Both are serviced by pre tax corporate earnings. That’s where the similarity ends. Interest on corporate debt is free of withholding tax (courtesy of Flaherty) whereas income trust distributions pay 15% (23.5 % under the Liberal proposal). Corporate debt of Canadian corporations is increasingly foreign held. Income trusts are 75% plus domestically held. Income trust are underwritten and distributed by Canadian dealers. Corporate debt often by US dealers.
So surprise surprise. Here we learn that Abu Dhabi is funding its purchase of Prime West and Northrock with debt that is being raised by Citigroup. No Canadian taxes. No Canadian dealers. No Canadian equity holders. No Canadian debt holders…..all displacing Canadian income trust holders at a cost of $110 million in ANNUAL forgone taxes.
To think, Harper calls this “Advantage Canadaâ€. Perhaps “Quadriplegic Canada†is more apt. Meanwhile the Apprentice Industry Minister said he is leaving the barn door open until June 2008. Midnight madness sale of a government if ever there were one:
Taqa to sell bonds for new assets
MANAMA: Abu Dhabi National Energy (Taqa) plans to sell a benchmark-sized bond in the US to pay for some of the $8 billion in acquisitions announced since May, a source said.
The company started making presentations to investors yesterday.
The roadshow ends tomorrow, the source said, adding the sale would comply with the Securities and Exchange Commission’s 144a rule that governs private placements.
Benchmark size bonds are typically of at least $500 million.
“We are looking at a variety of ways to finance the acquisitions we have made,” Taqa’s head of Treasury & Corporate Finance Eva Janssens said.
Taqa has announced acquisitions worth almost $8bn in the last six months, including a proposed 5bn Canadian dollars ($5.12bn) takeover of Canadian oil and gas producer PrimeWest Energy Trust.
The bond sale is taking place despite a lingering credit squeeze triggered in July by defaults on US home loans.
Last week, bankers said that Gulf borrowing would likely be subdued until next year, with mostly sovereign-backed debt likely to hit the market in the meantime.
Taqa is 75pc owned by the government of Abu Dhabi, the world’s sixth-largest oil exporter.
In June the firm said it would sell $9bn of bonds over five years to finance expansion through a medium term note programme.
On Monday, ratings firm Moody’s assigned a provisional Aa2 rating to the firm’s programme, citing the company’s strong state support for the relatively high rating. Citigroup is managing the sale, which will include tranches of 5-year and 10-year bonds, the source said.
[...] [source] Stephane Dion made it very clear the conditions he wanted to support the throne speech. Harper has refused to meet those conditions. Time to bring down this government. [source] [...]
Hey Garth, when I read the Throne Speech, this morning, I came to realize that Mr. Harper might want Canada to participate in the Missile Defence Shield, that he might want to legislate a new mandatory conscription system in which young adults must provide 1 year of mandatory military service, that he might want to privatize parkland and that he probably doesn’t give a hoot about families.
Why’s that? Because he’s conservative. Let me explain.
The Throne Speech is a work of art, really, that will appeal to a lot of people. It followed the Luntz principles of using language to prevent thought instead of promoting it. The TS started and ended on accountability, it outlined “opportunity” numerous times and used fear tactics to appeal to “security moms.” It also talked a lot about families and family values, they were brought at least 16 times.
So, the beauty of this document is that it will get the support of a lot of people even though they don’t know what it means. It sounds good. It feels good. Mr. Harper is turning good on us. Oh my. Only when one applies Mr. Harper’s conservative ideology to his commitments, one notices some interesting initiatives. For example:
Saying that the Government will “cooperate in the defence of North America” is a noble goal that will resonate with a lot of people. What it really means, though, is that Canada will participate with the US in building a “Missile Defence Shield.”
Who would disagree that “…working with the provinces and territories to bring forward a comprehensive plan to modernize reservist reinstatement policies” could be a bad thing? But who’s to say that Mr. Harper won’t legislate conscription that sees every young adult give one year to the Canadian military to “earn” their Canadian citizenship?
What could possibly be wrong with “a massive expansion of Nahanni National Park”? Sounds good, hey? Well, when you consider that Mr. Harper could privatize Canada’s public parklands so private interests can own hundreds of thousands of acres of prime recreation lands and have access to a couple of million paying customers you begin to see that the Throne Speech is not so appealing.
And wow, considering that Mr. Harper talked about families a lot, why is it that the Federal Gov is not allowing Ontario Public servants to stay home to celebrate family day next February?
You know me, always thinking …
-R
You know a bunch of Harper followers came and voted to bring down the government.
Wow, how mature. Hey Sean, you let me know when you have something intelligent to say, cause I certainly wouldn’t want to miss a once in a life moment like that.
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 11:30 am
Wow, this coming from the guy who spends his time making immature cartoons. High praise indeed.
oh oh…This is a real showing of confidence in the LPOC when their own president choses not to be in the country, even with the chance the government might fall:
Liberal party president Marie Poulin, was nowhere to be found on Tuesday.
While her office refused to comment, confirming only she was not going to be present for the reading of the speech from the throne, sources said Poulin is vacationing in Bermuda.
Montreal Gazette
~oh and you guys who insist on calling our Prime Minister a dictator. None of you understand our history nor the history of the world, and it is such an insult to those who suffered under dictatorships. YOu should be held down and let our older vets take turns pumelling you with their canes.
Farmer Dick grows taters. Buy Dictaters, serve them with gravy or gobs of butter. Yummy. L
“Turner … is a short-sighted, ego-bloated blowhard who is incapable of thinking beyond the next spotlight.”
Ah, the Garborator engaging in his usual rational, objective discussion.
I just heard a line from Hilliary Clinton when referring to the Republicans (in our case the Conservatives) – “they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up facts”.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
Good morning fellow bloggers. Bill, 10.17.07 10:04 am post, you outlined the reasons why the Con’s need to be stopped. Great post. I hope Mr. Dion reads it.
The consensus on this post agree that Mr. Dion needs to pull the plug by voting against approval of the TS. I voted to abstain from voting on your poll & have the NDP & Blocs follow him. I did that hoping by February next year, Canadians would see Harper for what he is. It seems it was wishful thinking on my part. That will never happen especially after listening to Jack Layton last night. He couldn’t help himself running Mr. Dion down while being questioned by CBC. One would think by his answers that it was the Liberals who gave the TS & not Harper. Their was no need to attack Mr. Dion other than get free publicity. He had made it very clear that he would vote against the TS regardless of its content prior to the TS & you can bet those contents were talked about & negotiated when he met with Harper before the TS. All this because of his greed to make Mr. Dion the bad guy & hopefully win liberal votes. He had already proven what a spinless human being he was when he helped Harper bring Paul Martin’s government down in January 2006 & he’s up to his old tricks again.
Garth, on behalf of all Canadians, I ask Mr. Dion to do what’s right, tell Harper to go to hell by voting nay to the TS before he takes us all to hell with him. Tell Canadians in the HOC, in front of the National Media, why he voted nay. In doing this, he will have gained Canadians respect. PS, please pass this message to Mr. Dion.
Good luck & have a good day. Irene
Wow, this coming from the guy who spends his time making immature cartoons. High praise indeed.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 11:44 am
Just because you lack the talent, skill and humour Sean isn’t cause to bitter.
Still waiting to hear something intelligent from you, you just let me know, m’kay?
Hi Boggers,
Do you know of and could you post a link to the hole thrown speech. I missed it last night because of work.
I would like to see it and read it but am not sure were to find it?
Thankyou in advance.
As a supported of Stephanne Dion with no political credentials I have a few suggestions for him.
1) Make Mr Ignaiieff responsible for the Quebec wing with consequences That being if you can not get “Your” people to stop unsermining the leader you Mr Ignatieff will end up on the back benches.
Has anyone else noticed how Mr Harper deals with rivals he makes sure they get no TV face time. Mr Dion has tried the big tent approach and some have still continued to campagne for the leadership. We need a strong party because we will be in election mode very very soon.
If we are going to be sitting on the edge of our seats with evry piece of legislation let’s PULL THE PLUG NOW!
The Quebec members will have such a fight on their hands that they will not have time to snipe at Mr Dion.
Good Luck today Garth I hope that you will be able to persude our leader that Canadians do want an election NOW
Greg, CTV.Ca has it on their web site
Sean P.,
you’re a sad bastard, but your 9:59 finally made me laugh.
“We must get back to power as soon as possible!”
“Canadians do not want another election, the third one in 3 1/2 years.”
“We are a strong and united Liberal party.”
……………
If Dion decides to allow the Throne Speech to pass, he should also resign as Liberal leader because he is unable to implement his commitments to the Liberal party. He has botched his leadership opportunity. He is not a leader.
I just heard a line from Hilliary Clinton when referring to the Republicans (in our case the Conservatives) – “they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up factsâ€.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
A good one slg – definitely worth notepading.
By Greg W., Oakville on 10.17.07 12:03 pm
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071016/thronespeech_SIDEBARS_071016/20071016/
Here’s one source.
I heard that Dion might step down and offer Michael Ignatieff the job of leading the Liberals. Then they will support Harper’s Conservatives until the economy goes in the tank next year as predicted by the Bank of Canada.
Am I kidding? Hmmm,maybe,maybe not, wouldn’t that throw a huge monkey wrench in The Angry Little Prime Minister’s plans.
hi Greg W, here’s the TS:
http://www.sft-ddt.gc.ca/eng/index.asp
http://www.sft-ddt.gc.ca/fra/index.asp
Best,
-R
Just because you lack the talent, skill and humour Sean isn’t cause to bitter.
Still waiting to hear something intelligent from you, you just let me know, m’kay?
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 12:00 pm
Oh yes sir. Yes sir. I’ll let you know missah.
You keep replying to me though.
People, the vote on the throne speech and consequences that follow have nothing to do with honour, credibility, integrity, or any of that type of fluff.
It has to do with the libs ability or preparedness to fight a campaign and win.
Why go to the poles if you can’t win? Thats a waste.
If I were Dion’s adviser, I would tell him to support the TS and be an effective opposition until 2009. Get the internal problems straightened out, raise some money, be a visible leader, have an attractive simple platform for the average Canadian to understand and identify with.
Thats what I would do. Unfortunately Dion’s problems appear more serious than my simple solution. It seems like there will be a revolt against his leadership unless he can form government soon. That means another leadership race, more money, more debt, and Harper not willing to wait until the libs get their house in order. Kind of like what Chretien did to him.
I would argue(and a number of the members of the members of the schools Liberal Students association have as well) that Dion didn’t immediately shoot down the throne speech because he is week. Quebec has been a Liberal stronghold since the 1910’s and he can’t get a lieutenant there, the media is all over him, heck he was the only opposition leader that didn’t have a prolonged sit down with the press after the speech (Ignatieff took that role). I’m sure Garth will argue with this, but I’m not really sure Dion is calling the shots anymore.
ps. in my googleing to make sure I was spelling his name right I found Ignatieff is launching a reelection website tomorrow, sign maybe?
http://www.michaelignatieff.ca/ (The Google headline is ‘Reelect Michael Ignatieff in Etobicoke-Lakeshore’)
Turner … is a short-sighted, ego-bloated blowhard who is incapable of thinking beyond the next spotlight.â€
Ah, the Garborator engaging in his usual rational, objective discussion.
By Herb on 10.17.07 11:45 am
That’s about as objective as any Liberal supporter. So what’s your beef?
Heaven forbid someone has an opposing opinion and words it exactly as you and others have done on here.
Blog titles for Garth.
If the Liberals abstain from the vote put a picture of Dion and the title GUTLESS
If the Liberals vote for the throne speech put picture of Dion and title PUSHOVER
Throne Speech
http://www.sft-ddt.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=1364
I just heard a line from Hilliary Clinton when referring to the Republicans (in our case the Conservatives) – “they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up factsâ€.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
You’re quoting Hillary?
Puhlease. This is the woman who signs her name to a document accusing Rush Limbaugh of calling soldiers who are against the war of being phony soldiers. We all know that’s a huge lie. Next time, quote someone who knows the difference between a truth and a lie.
bring the government down and put dion out of his misery. The sooner you change the leaders the quicker the country will see your party as credible.
You keep replying to me though.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 12:20 pm
And you to me and your point?
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 12:25 pm
Since you are obviously working at the PMO, remember your O Mighty Lord Saviour’s advice: shut up. Otherwise you will be booted out for being too noisy. This page is for comments. If you do not comment the story at hand, do not comment at all.
We all know how every liberal on here states that Harper is governing by the polls, although what Liberal PM didn’t do that? But anyways, you have to admit that if Dion doesn’t force an election here, he is guilty of doing the same thing, watching the polls.
If you Liberals redirected even half of the energy you use to name call the Prime Minister and the Conservatives and used it for something daring, like, actually creating some policy perhaps your fortunes would change. The fear card has been played out.
After the gun pointing, aircraft carriers, soldiers in the cities, women rocking in the hospitals, privatization of hospitals, opening the border to let Emperor Bush in, the Chicken Little Kyoto sky is falling thing, you guys can’t put the fear into Canadians any longer.
The name calling thing is pretty juvenile too. Pointing out where Harper is wrong and suggesting how it could be done better would gain alot more traction.
If Harper is so wrong…
prove it.
If his policies are so bad…
show us better ones.
If your leader is better than Harper …
Have him demonstrate it. He can start by showing he can lead his own party.
At some point you have to face the fact that politics have changed in Canada. The natural governing party can no longer just sit around shouting rude names at the PM and find themselves magically back in power.
Just went to th Governments website to see if the TS was there. Its been a while since I visited it, and will be a while longer until I visit it again.
Big banner:
Stephen Harper: Strong Leadership: A Better Canada.
That website is not a party political site. It is a government website that should be non partisan. It should report the TS, legislation and information with zero political spin.
That banner is a disgrace. I’ve said it before, this PM cannot distinguish between being the PM and the Leader of the CPC.
Put it on the CPC website were it belongs. Take the banner off the government website with an election.
I heard that Dion might step down and offer Michael Ignatieff the job of leading the Liberals. Then they will support Harper’s Conservatives until the economy goes in the tank next year as predicted by the Bank of Canada. – RANDY
Who did you hear this from? You buddy at the insane asylum?
You Liberals are getting really desperate!
Marc;
You’re absolutely correct. Dion must vote down the speach. He has no choice. However, I don’t think that will happen.
I too await the GUTLESS/PUSHOVER blog title.
By Rob Wiebe on 10.17.07 12:20 pm
Thanks for the link.
Well, well, PMSH is so paranoid even his own website is locked down. When I tried to get to the Throne Speech PDF version I got this error message. I do not allow cookies to be set on my system, so obviously Harper is attempting to spy on whoever visits the GOVERNMENT website. No surprise there.
Web Server Security Alert
This website uses special security software that monitors suspicious network traffic and behavior. If you feel that you have caused this security error unintentionally, please contact the website administrator at the address below and be sure to include the reference ID in your message.
Email contact: pm@pm.gc.ca
Reference ID: 20071017…..
Yeah, viewing the Throne Speech is right up there with a CSIS level attempt at espionage. Definitely!
Second attempt, I got the file, still without a cookie being allowed. Open and accountable my sweet ARSE!
Get rid of this Bush Nutbar this afternoon.
Oh, and here is the rest of the Security message from Caesar Harper’s Government website.
SecureIISâ„¢ Web Server Protection
SecureIIS is an internet security application that offers sites running Microsoft Internet Information Server comprehensive intrusion prevention.
Download SecureIIS Personal Edition, free for non-commercial use at: http://www.eeye.com/SecureIIS/
Its a trifecta, Larry, Moe and Curly.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 9:59 am
This coming from an imposter who professes to be a Catholic but know nothing about his churches’ stance on scripture interpretation. A fundalmentalist Catholic LMAO…I would suggest it is he who is the stooge!
Harper couldn’t be worse even if he was on the CIA payroll to undermine Canada!
By Geoffrey L. on 10.17.07 10:58 am
Wouldn’t be the first time that tactic has been used. Certainly, is a thought, and would be no surprise to me if it were found true. There are those in the U.S. who want are resources and do not give a damn how they acquire them. They are not Americans, except by citizenship, just the gloablists who think the planet is their’s to use and abuse however they want. They have no loyalties to any nation. People need to grasp that ahrd reality.
Liberals have a choice either be a party to have some principle or not!
Vote aganist this government!! Lets have an election!
Sean P.,
do all of us a favour: get off it and grow up.
Blog titles for Garth.
If the Liberals abstain from the vote put a picture of Dion and the title GUTLESS
If the Liberals vote for the throne speech put picture of Dion and title PUSHOVER
By Marc on
No Mark, I think if they abstain they are just playing Harper’s game of smart politics. Don’t give Harper what he wants, an election. Over the past year Harper has been as high as 40% back in March then went sliding downhill over the rest of the year. I am sure he has lots of time over the next 2 years to keep putting his foot in his mouth and digging his own grave. Just wait till the daily Kindergarten show called Question Period starts up again. The Cons really show how they are leaders then don’t they/not?
If the current gov’t falls, the GG asks theleader of the opposition to form a gov’t. Can’t the Liberals, NDP and the Independent’s work together for awhile? I think it would certainly catch SH off-guard.
Garth:
Just off the phone with a Brit, it appears they want to raise their prices of goods going to US and of course they then come to Canada…..and on another front some prices will have to come down here to become more competative with US prices. Seems like all bad news for us cunucks, then I am not an economist. Nothing in the Throne Speech seemed to address any of these issues. I really wonder if Canadians will buy into this man’s War Machine as that seems to be all we really here. The Navy and Air Force still have no fuel coupled with poor recruitment and no future. I was shocked to see a 40 plus private (Air Force) in the line up at Tims only to learn there are many others. Bill Gates wants Sr. Tech’s and pays over $100k for their skills. You once said it will come down to money in the end, sounds about right to me. So with that said, a pitence of a tax cut after this years increase with a slap of 1% off of the GST, does nothing. So all this War/Crime business is doing nothing for Canadians. If y’all call that leaderhip go for it, better still move south and get the real Republican, not just the wantabe one in Ottawa.
This poll indicates to me what I really believe most Canadians feel about having yet another election in less than 4 years. That isn’t counting the local and provincial elections Canadians have had to endure over the past 4 yrs.
http://tinyurl.com/ypo9ou
Since you are obviously working at the PMO, remember your O Mighty Lord Saviour’s advice: shut up. Otherwise you will be booted out for being too noisy. This page is for comments. If you do not comment the story at hand, do not comment at all.
By Jonnay on 10.17.07 12:37 pm
Um, maybe I typed too quickly for you last time. I don’t work for the PMO, nor do I support the CPC. Try again, but this time, put some thought into it.
Ah the good communist, always telling others that they can’t comment because they’re not spouting the same tripe. Too bad so sad sonny.
This coming from an imposter who professes to be a Catholic but know nothing about his churches’ stance on scripture interpretation. A fundalmentalist Catholic LMAO…I would suggest it is he who is the stooge!
By pjw on 10.17.07 12:58 pm
And you are?? Don’t make me laugh. Sorry Curly, you don’t get off so easy.
And you to me and your point?
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 12:35 pm
My point is, you’re a suck up and you don’t like having that pointed out.
This throne speech had the cunning ambiguity reminiscent of something written by a Liberal, eh? Looks like Harper’s figured out how to win the support of Canadians.
Sean P.,
do all of us a favour: get off it and grow up.
By Herb on 10.17.07 1:16 pm
You are the enemy. Get back to the Death Star where you belong. Stop the CRAP. Keep drinking the kool-aid. Goerring would be proud. He’s Bush’s puppet. Bush clone. Snake hiding in the grass. And so on and so on.
Man, if you’re interested in discussing childish posts, there are hundreds of Liberal postings on here that will keep you busy for a long time.
By Randy on 10.17.07 1:17 pm
Randy, If the Liberals abstain from the vote and then say that they didn’t support it that is Gutless. If they don’t support it then vote against it. If they abstain then they have no right to complain as is the same with people who do not vote have no right to complain about the government as they chose to leave their voices mute.
I can guarantee what Stephane Dion will say at 3:15 pm today, or at least what he should say:
“In 2006 the people of Canada sent all of us here to COLLABORATE on the direction our great country Canada should go.
Judging from the “GIVE ME MY MANDATE OR GO TO THE POLLS” rhetoric Prime Minister Harper has been DICTATING to the Liberal Party in the media, with the help of his Bloc and NDP friends, it does not seem that Mr. Harper, or his friends, remember that Canadians put us here to COLLABORATE on the future direction of this great country.
Us Liberals remember and respect the wishes of the Canadian people and are prepared to COLLABORATE on this speech by abstaining until Mr. Harper allows ALL parties in this House of Commons to ammend the Throne Speech in order to fashion the BRIGHTEST future for ALL Canadians.
If Mr. Harper is unwilling to respect the WILL OF THE PEOPLE and collaborate then we will give the people of Canada a chance to voice their opinion of Mr. Harper and his friends at the polls.
One way or the other the Liberal Party will give voice to the PEOPLE WE SERVE.
Canadians.”
[...] is poking the liberals to defeat the Gov’t. Read his own words here. I like the talking points, that it would show courage for Dion to throw the country into an [...]
If the current gov’t falls, the GG asks theleader of the opposition to form a gov’t. Can’t the Liberals, NDP and the Independent’s work together for awhile? I think it would certainly catch SH off-guard.
By Ross on 10.17.07 1:18 pm
Brilliant. and Stephane can meet Kyoto and save the world!
To follow the goings on during an election the Canadian public will be asked to pay a little attention to the news and what the media tell the. As well, they will be asked to pay attention to any debates that take place. Also of course they’ll see lawn signs and may get a visit from a candidate or two. Leaflets will be left under their door.
And then … they will be asked to go to a polling station and spend a few minutes to mark their choice.
Will an election interfere with the odd Hockey Game ? Soap opera ? Comedy show ?
Perhaps.
But an election is no big deal time wise, unless you are a volunteer or a candidate.
Harper has Dion in a corner and the only way out for Dion is come out fighting. If he wins he is the hero. If he loses we are no further but Dion would be wise to step aside for someone Harper and his goons will not be able to cal weak.
People, a reminder –
sparring with Sean P. is like wrestling with a pig; everyone gets dirty, but the pig loves it.
He’s the lightweight of our neo-Con trolls, and here only to needle and distract.
Garth, you are a lunatic. Those conservatives are the same people you were in bed with not long ago. Your readers here would prefer that in Canada we have a dictatorship, because they can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that Harper was democratically elected, and he would win again if we went to an election. The last thing that your readers wish to see is democracy in action. You’re all a bunch of sore losers, very sore losers, the types of people who were bullies in the playground when they were kids.
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 12:35 pm
My point is, you’re a suck up and you don’t like having that pointed out.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 1:29 pm
Hey I produce funny graphics, if Garth chooses to them, then that is his choice. I voice my support for Garth and Dion and my dislike of Harper and his poilicies. I disagree with Dion’s choice today, if Garth votes the party line I will be disappoint with Garth. Is that sucking up? Point it out all you want Sean, but the refrain gets boring really quick.
You on the other hand are just here to be a shit disturber. I come here to contribute, you to disrupt, one is positive and one is negative.
So I get it Sean, you don’t like political photoshoping, you can’t see the humour in them. I guess you think we should all just be quiet and allow Harper to rule like he has a majority instead of voicing our opinions.
Just as a side note Sean, I have been through the entire thread here and I really can’t find anything of constructive substance from you, nut if I’m wrong, please feel free to point out where you added something meaningful here today. Otherwise this sparing with you is really pointless.
By David Bakody on 10.17.07 1:19 pm
A bit off topic..
Caught a bit on TV. where Bombardier ATV are $3000 less in the US. Their excuse it takes time for exchange rate changes to work their way through, although US. dealers can’t sell to Canucks.
Here’s my thinking:
If a product is made by a Canadisn manufacturer (accounting in $CDN), the price in Canadian dollars should not have changed, but in the US it should have gone up.
If a product is made by a US manufacturer ($US accounting), the price in US dollars should have remained the same, but should have gone down in Canadian$
If the product is made by an offshore company, say Japan, the price in $US should have gone up, as the dollar has weakened against the yen, but in $Canadian maybe it should have gone down as the yen has weakened against the $CDN.
Someone is gouging and blaming it on exchange fluctuation.
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
I am no fan of G.W. I think he’s a mere puppet and well, really not very smart. Having said that, however, be careful if you are wishing for a Democrat government in the U.S. Democrats in the U.S. are very, very protectionist, much more so than the republics. We really can’t compare Democrats/Liberals, Republicans/Conservatives on either side of the border.
IN view that the U.S. is in fact our biggest trading partner, in one year, when they have there Pres. election, we’d be better off here, if a Republican won, but of course it would be nice if they had a little higher I.Q. than does Mr. Bush.
Just one opinion. L
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.17.07 12:54 pm
Very interesting, Bill. Canadian federal government departments are supposed to allow users the option to refuse a cookie.
Here’s what they say about cookies on the TS Website under the “Important Notices” section:
“We do not regularly use ‘cookies’ to track how our visitors use the site. Whenever we enable ‘cookies’ to facilitate your transactions, we will first inform you.”
Did they facilitate your transaction, Bill?
-R
Great post, Garth. Thank you. My own gut feeling, like yours, is for war. Yesterday is not soon enough for our country to be rid of Stephen Harper’s government, schemes and ideologies!! However, I will respect whatever decision Stephane Dion makes. I have followed his career ever since he entered politics and have come to have the greatest admiration for him. He is a man of great integrity, courage and intelligence. His first commitment is always to the people of Canada, not to his own short-term political advantage. Despite what polls and pundits may say, I am confident that Stephane Dion could win an election, should one be forced by the current Prime Minister’s bully tactics. Carry on carrying on, Garth!! You are doing a great job.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
For all, Help out your fellow human beings that don’t enjoy the same freedoms that we still have in Canada.
(PMSH fans be carefull of what you wish for?)
Burm Military shut down all communication links to the outside world last week, internet, telephone.
What are they doing that they don’t want to get out?
You can help, see link.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/end_the_burmese_blackout/1.php?cl=32574538
Right on Garth
With the way that harper is acting makes me wonder if he’s on the C.I.A.’s payrole?????
Next time, quote someone who knows the difference between a truth and a lie.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 12:27 pm
“they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up factsâ€.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
A good one slg – definitely worth notepading.
By KPN on 10.17.07 12:17 pm
lol, Words of wisdom from H who couldn`t interpret the facts to figure out Bill was cheating.
The first thing H would do is move `country of origin` label legislation forward.
I will give her credit for her $20b/year $5000/child plan for every child born. I can think of other things that will have more impact but still it will make some difference for children in poverty. A small thing but it`s a step forward, still to small a step to be categorized as Presidential.
btw when have you two studied any facts on youth problems before you decided on the outcome?
“Next time, quote someone who knows the difference between a truth and a lie”.
By Sean P. Hogan on 10.17.07 12:27 pm
I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Hook line and sinker
One very smart man once said, ” It’s the economy Stupit” and the middle class is now taking it in the ear. Report after report states our children will have less than we did, as stated there are many high paid jobs, but cost to live in the middle class is going through the roof. PMSH & Co, are pushing the same old Reform lines day after day after day. I hope people do look beyond the firs row of trees. and y’a know what, I think our younger people are smarter than we give them credit for, so I hope M. Dion pulls the plug, because they just might search the net and make their own decisions not those based on highly paid special interest attack adds. If not, then it is too late, Canada is gonzo and history came sooner than predicted. The East vs. West will have been ignited. Why because new Canadians will see Canadians only as northern dog faced Americans…….Think, before it is too late. Go for it M. Dion, voting only takes a few hours, and hell 300 million PMSH gave that away and more to Quebec for one seat in a bi election, and besides some people will get some added Christmas money!
Garth get over yourself.
Too late for that. — Garth
“~oh and you guys who insist on calling our Prime Minister a dictator. None of you understand our history nor the history of the world, and it is such an insult to those who suffered under dictatorships. YOu should be held down and let our older vets take turns pumelling you with their canes.
By Leasa on 10.17.07 11:44 am”
Leasa: I am one of our older vets. Harper is a dictator that needs to be stopped in his tracks. Right now, he’s a spot of infection on what looks like an otherwise healthy leg. The infection needs to be cleaned out before it turns to gangrene, making it necessary to amputate the leg. Do you really want to wait until it’s too late to do anything before you try and do anything?
You wanted to hear from a vet. You’ve heard. Now shut up.
Zorph and Sean P: Hey, you two wanna get a room?
This just in…
Mr. Dion is going to support the TS.
Truly gutless!
Still interested in how you will vote though…
Garth
Have your leader bring them down as your party will do very well in an election.If we leave the DICTATOR in he will destroy Canada. There are two million income trust holders who will immediately vote for your party , people who are against the war in Afganstan, people who are pissed because of him scrapping Kyota and many more things as he is not a trusted man.
Get him out Garth and get your party united and Dion will look like a hero. Look ar Dalton in Ontario.
Good luck Don from Hanover
It is quite pathetic that (some) people here appear to think there are only two outcomes, “for” or “against”. Kinda like “with me” or “against me”. Where or where have we all heard that from? Hmmm…I wonder if the persons in question are receiving soundbites from the CPC website…it is all about consistency of message dontcha know (ROFLMAO!!!).
This kind of reduction of Parliamentary decisions into two camps is asinine. This is one reason why the CPC should be turfed. It’ll piss them off (the sheer audacity!), make them go ballistic, spend their coffers like no tomorrow, and every Canadian will know exactly what they are about.
Austin
Have the courage to defy your leader when the time comes Garth. I doubt you have that kind of courage.
Ah, the Garborator engaging in his usual rational, objective discussion.
Not specific enough, Herb?
Perhaps you should take some remedial comprehension courses. I thought the meaning was crystal clear.
By ER on 10.17.07 1:34 pm
I think you will be proven correct on your prediction.
Andre
Rumor has it that McGuinty is looking at another gift for Ontario voters that gave him the second majority:
http://torontosun.com/Money/2007/10/14/4574945-sun.html
You wanted to hear from a vet. You’ve heard. Now shut up.
….
By Chimera on 10.17.07 2:27 pm
Spoken like a real dictator !
By James- Chatham on 10.17.07 1:53 pm
James the reason I come up with a difference in prices between the U.S. and Canada is that they have more then 300 million people in their market. Canada has over 30 million. Therefore I don’t think manufactures give a rats ass that our prices are higher as our market is so much smaller that they could still survive if they cut Canada out altogether.
The liberal party sure seems to be one step behind the cons, has looked that way for quite some time now. Why is that? Why does the liberal party seem to trip over its own feet all the time?
I keep hoping to see an Ace up their sleeve, but all I see are jokers. Garth, liberals, guys. What the hell is with the foot shooting? Why the hell would you allow external issues affect internal dealings.
It sure as hell seems like the liberals are ruining themselves here. It would be so nice to see the damn con party speechless. GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER. WHAT OTHER HOPE DOES THIS COUNTRY HAVE?
All wanting to know how anyone will vote…Turn on your TV to CPAC and WATCH IT.
They’re baaaaaaaaaaaack! QP = SSDD!
Garth, you were almost fill screen when O’Canada was sung at the opening!
While there was a small group of Liberal “hawks” who pushed for an election, most MPs in the meeting told Dion that now is not the time to send Canadians to the polls, Fife said
So are you to be considered a Hawk Garth? I always thought you were more like a buzzard.
just received a call from the conservative party of canada asking if an election were held today, would i vote conservative. i managed to keep from laughing as i very quickly told him no.
Did they facilitate your transaction, Bill?
-R
By Rob Wiebe on 10.17.07 1:57 pm
Thanks Rob. As I stated, it did finally access the PDF on the second try. The fact that I got that message was quite disturbing, especially from a Government of Canada that is public.
Zorph and Sean P: Hey, you two wanna get a room?
By Chimera on 10.17.07 2:27 pm
Oh byte me Chimera
I thought Dion was to speak today at 3:15pm ET?
Wait for it. — Garth
“they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up factsâ€.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
A good one slg – definitely worth notepading.
By KPN on 10.17.07 12:17 pm
OOPS, sry, didn`t know H was involved in the following. Sure sounds like her criticisms yet,,,. Do you think she`s a hypocrite?
***solution***
U.S. looking at birth control pill for middle school children.
***problem***
Children from fatherless homes account for:
· 71% of pregnant teenagers. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services)
How do I sign up for your Liberal leadership campaign????
The entire front bench is stronger than your current leader. I think Liberals selected the tenth best option available to them at the convention. It must be hard having to defend the biggest loser to enter Canadian leadership politics since Stockwell Day. At least Day has a good record in cabinet though, unlike Dion.
I thought Dion was to speak today at 3:15pm ET?
Wait for it. — Garth
By SJ on 10.17.07 3:28 pm
Here we go…..
Bob R makes an excellent point…despite the fact that Canadians don’t seem to particularly want an election, it it really too much to ask them to make a decision on whether the agenda outlined in this throne speech is the one they want their country to follow?
Does the Liberal caucus actually believe we are really so apathetic that taking 20 minutes to head down to the polling station to put a X on the ballot and missing a bit of prime-time television is such unbearable burden?
So as a result, we are forced to accept an agenda which puts us down a path of no plan to deal with peak oil, no real climate change action, and abandons our commitment to Kyoto.
Someone out there must have more confidence that Canadians will make the right decision given the chance. If not Mr. Dion, then who?
Now is not the time for weakness. I’m truly disappointed.
CPAC cut out online!!!
Damn, Dion is using the ‘electorate doesn’t want another election’ line to back down. IDIOTIC because it is just a matter of time before they can’t stomach one of the bills!
False alarm… it’s back.
I have just read that Mr. Dion has found a way to get around the forced issued of all or nothing. That he will probably introduce a motion, which will can not be supported by the NDP, which will then postpone any votes for another week.
I has hoped they’d just vote against the TS, but I’ll defer to Mr. Dion’s intelligence and instincts. If waiting a bit will increase the chances of PMSH being turfed, them I am willing to wait.
‘Canadians don’t want another election right now’: Dion
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/10/17/dion-throne.html
On the question as to whether Harper is a dictator or not one needs to understand that there are different forms of dictatorship.
Stephen Harper is an authoritarian (sometimes referred to as an autocrat). According to my dictionary a dictator is “one holding complete autocratic control.” From that perspective he could probably be called a dictator during the period in which he legally governs.
On the other hand, he has not gained absolute control outside the parameters of the Parliamentary system and as such it could be argued he is not a dictator merely an autocrat.
It depends on ones perspective.
“Oh byte me Chimera”
LOL! I keep tryin’! You keep movin’!
I’m listening to the Liberal response, why is Ignatieff smirking at every one of Dion’s points. Ishe for real??
And Dion just cracked a good one “the Liberals are serious on crime”
And if the Libs don’t get their way, they will abstain!
You too Garth? ,welcome back to the Indies…
There is no courage here, no honour.
Only the futile rhetoric of the defeated….
make a blustery speech, wait for laughter, drag the wounded ego of the leader…
make a blustery speech, wait for laughter, drag the wounded ego of the leader…
etc.
and so Canada died, not with a Bang, but with a whimp
Now that the NDP is the only party left standing firmly against Harper, are you going to join them? Not even your galpal Lizzie May wants to bring down the government. Wrong side again, Garth. I guess you’re just smarter than everyone.
Dion IS A GREAT LEADER, of wise and stout COURAGE, and one with very long arms. He reached across the floor of the Commons and grabbed Stephen Harper by his cajones, and SQUEEZED HARD!
Now Mr. Harper can defeat his own government by his own arrogant hand. Dion came through like a Shredder of the government.
Iggy was barely able to hold back and had the most ngenuine smile I have ever seen on his face.
My only regret was not being able to watch the faces of the government, and see Harper turning red and fuming like acid. Harper has hung himself by his own petard.
Now, let us se if this so-called government of Stephen Harper can actually work as a government, rather than bunch of arrogant Bullies. The Bully just got his just due. Lesson two will follow as necessary.
In short, Dion’s retort is BRILLIANT! He used the most effective tool there is…Making the Bully comeup with the answers. Quoting Harper as the finale was the best part and well selected.
And now, the spokemqan for the government makes a total ass out of himself and his party. Stephane Dion is not merely some ‘professor’ he is the Leader of the Queen’s Official Opposition.
The response of the government, as of this moment, is a further INSULT to Canada and Canadians.
I read “Canadians do not want an election” as Liberals do not want an election. NDP wants an election, must not be any Canadians in that party. Looks like the Liberals will decide to fish. Only problem is that the Liberals are the ones on the hook. Anyone who thinks that the Liberals could even win a minority must be soft in the head.
And Dion just shut Layton DOWN!
And loving watching the Speaker reprimand Big Mouth Baird!
Now we clearly see that, as the trolls who come here, their party acts just as they do. Like yipping little children, void of content of character, maturity, or capable of leading this country anywhere.
The CPC just lost and all Canadians have been a witness.
Dion;
“We will not give this Conservative government a majority”
Liberals abstain allowing the TS to pass on Conservative vote alone. That`s a majority by all definitions.
Liberal’s proposed amendment to Throne Speech
Among other things Dion is calling upon Conservative Government to reverse their “egregious mistakes on income trusts and interest deductibility ……the Mark Carney duo fiascoes
I am disappointed because I am so sick of Steve Harper and want to see him gone more than almost anything. At the same time I trust Mr. Dion and hope he knows what is for the best. I just hope he is right.
My god, I’m watching QP right now and listening to Harper just makes me want to puke.
Garth.. win some lose some.. I will vote liberal but I would have sent a donation to the Federal Liberal party if he had shown strong leadership. Being from Nova Scotia, perhaps we are not as “vote tired” as some other provinces.. I believe that the ship sailed without the skipper.
So I guess Mr. Dion’s position is based on “stategy” not “courage”.
Harper’s response is, as expected, a joke. BUT, he KNOWS he now holds his fate in his own hands. Either he works together with the Opposition or he will be defeated by his own hand.
If some do not see how this game is being played, please look closer.
Harper must change or be changed!
I have just listened to Stephane Dion’s response to the Speech from the Throne, and his proposed amendments. As I said in an earlier post, I fully respect and support his decision, although my gut is calling for war. I consider Mr. Dion’s speech quite superb: (1) in the way he put forward the Liberal position and (2) in the way he pointed out occasions where both the Mr. Layton’s NDP and Mr. Harper’s Conservatives have abstained on votes when they did not wish to trigger an election. Although I expect that both Mr. Layton and Mr. Harper will try to make it appear that the Liberals are cowards if they abstain from voting on the Speech from the Throne, Mr. Dion has made a preemptive strike in deflecting such criticism. I’m sure they will still try to call the Liberals cowards but it will only serve to highlight their own hypocrisy. STEPHANE DION IS A LEADER!!!!
By PHIL ROMANENKO on 10.17.07 4:17 pm
Yeah, what was with Iggy? He even laughed at Dion along with the rest of them!
I loved Harper’s response, Dion is like a professor who criticizes everything in your term paper, but passes you anyway.
I also loved Dion quoting American trickster Al (I bought my credits) Gore.
Wow. L
Everyone was blaming Dion for the decision on the “make or break” throne speech. Even the newspapers were repeating the mantra. Exactly as the Harperites wanted, and it worked. They are diabolically clever, with the emphasis on “diabolically”. But devils have been known to get thrown out of paradise when they get too uppity. I’m looking forward to it.
We can always look at it this way – now the time and place for an election call is firmly in the Liberals’ court. The three parties that represent two thirds of Canadians can vote down any new legislation that comes up, and my guess will be that they’ll wait for the best one, where they’re able to show the Harper agenda for what it really is, so un-Canadian that it takes your breath away.
A prime minister can manipulate the parliamentary prodedure and push the law to its limits all he wants, but if he doesn’t have the people behind him, he’s doomed. Even Machiavelli knew that.
All of a sudden, I feel better.
Garth … We await your rationale explaining Dion’s strategy to abstain. Obviously you must agree with your leader, but after waiting for Dion’s statement, I for one, would appreciate how you reconcile your previous positions to that of Dion’s TS strategy.
Thanks.
Another politician telling me how I feel.
Just great, apparently I don’t want another election. I can’t believe I didn’t know this, after all I’m usually very honest with myself. Must be I can’t take the 30 days of listening to party platforms and the 20 minutes of marking an X to exercise my civic duty.
I guess… so I’m being told… I’m one apathetic SOB. Too bad, I used to be so different.
Well THIS Canadian wants an election.
Truly disappointed in Dion today.
Time to rename the title; I’m not sure to what, but Courage certainly doesn’t work. I can appreciate not wanting to bring down the government, but to toss out the ole ‘Canadians don’t want an election’ line? That’s pure cop-out. I may not always (or ever) agree with you Garth, but at least you have some principles that you stand behind. That is something I can respect. Today your leader has shown that all he is totally void of anything that resembles principle, and really is most concerned with saving his skin.
One more comment. Harper, finally, spoke like a Prime Minister. He can learn. The change is already happening. Perhaps, we can all see a functional government, and save $250 MIllion dollars for a while?
Dion did the impossible…Harper gave him lemonade and he made a lemon.
Now that the NDP is the only party left standing firmly against Harper, are you going to join them? Not even your galpal Lizzie May wants to bring down the government. Wrong side again, Garth. I guess you’re just smarter than everyone.
By NCF TO on 10.17.07 4:22 pm
————————————–
Now! That,s a joke! Good old Jack Layton was the major supporter of Harpers FRAUD to tax income trusts. There by supporting the 30% of canadians who have a secure pension(unions,public pension plans etc.)to the detrement of the 70% of canadians who have no pension plans. Layton is a fraud and deceiver.(Standing up for seniors and ordinary working people—The crook should be in Kingston penetentiary!)
It would seem that the LPC blinked, you must be so proud Garth.
Nice one Stephane….
using the PM’s own words against him.
Oh the irony. Still would prefer to get rid of PM, asap. But come the glorious day……
The impotent rage I felt in my late twenties watching Jean Chretien bully anyone he wanted to has now turned.
I see clearly now what I couldn’t see then; Canadians like their leaders tough and confrontational, maybe because the typical Canadian isn’t?
Not sure about that one, but it is satisfying to see Liberal supporters impotently gnash their teeth at the current PM like I used to at Chretien’s unsavoury behaviour.
Every time you call PMSH a bully, you align his perceived personality with that of Chretien and while I didn’t like him, he knew how to win elections.
We’re going to have an authoritarian economist lead us for a good while yet. Liberals, please try not to kill each other.
Cheers,
Shawn
Dion did the impossible…Harper gave him lemonade and he made a lemon.
By Michael on 10.17.07 5:08 pm
That, Sir, is a NEW CLASSIC. He certainly did, and all the sweetness was removed. No preservatives either, and it will have a very short shelf life.
The key to the timing with the next election may actually reside with Elections Canada.
Let’s remember that the Conservatives are still under investigation for potentially breaking funding rules under the Elections Act. If found guilty up to 17 sitting MP’s may be barred from voting on legislation in Parliament, the Conservatives will not be able to claim millions in potentially fraudulent election expenses from the 2006 election, and the opposition will have their ‘killer’ issue to take to the polls.
Since the neoCons ran on a ‘holier-than-thou’ ethics issue in the last election, they’re coming out under potenial election fraud should be a killer.
By Shawn on 10.17.07 5:41 pm
I concur regarding how Canadians act. The MSM are all beating up on Dion. They like surrogates fighting and spilling their blood, but never there own. No wonder Hockey is so popular.
Dion used his intelligence, and whipped the Bully, as is what usually happens when intelligence meets a brute.
I do not expect Baird or Van Loan to get it however. I think Harper did, and BIG TIME!
Likewise, the MSM shows they are fiscal morons, because another election is a very expensive, and unnecessary act. yesterday, I supported voting against the TS, but Dion did, infact, hand a lemon back to Harper after being given lemonade.
We may be witnessing the change we have truly hoped for in Ottawa. If Harper is smart he will cooperate. if not, there will be an election, and the CRAP will be history. Harper is on the Hot Seat now with the HoC, Canadians, and the CPC. Dion simply outsmarted him, and probably did not even break a sweat.
I still wish we could have seen the look on the government’s faces, because that is what Iggy was smiling at, he had total eye contact with someone acorss the aisle and was just enjoying their pain tremendously.
By James- Chatham on 10.17.07 5:39 pm
I wasn’t able to catch all of the exchange, but Dion point blank told Layton ‘I will be the Prime Minsiter of Canada!’ Not an empty boast at all I think.
Layton was his usual shoot from the hip, emotional self. A street fighter who like Harper, just encountered a Martial Arts Master of the Intellectual kind.
The ‘Professor’ knows his stuff more so than we have ever seen before, and he dealt numerous death blows to the government’s glorious plan! In fact, there was nothing wimpy about Dion whatsoever today. Is suspect he has far more to deliver in the near future? And will!
Kind of like watching an episode of Kung Fu IMHO! He used his opponent’s strength against him.
Seems that maybe Dion took counsel from comments similar to those attached to my online vote the other night. I for one think he made the right move, not bringing down a government based on the vagaries of a Throne Speech. On what basis would he have been able to do so: because the Conservatives might do something based on an interpretation of what a passage in the speech might mean? Not good enough.
If the Government is to be brought down, it should in principal be done on the substantive that emerges when details are attached to speech’s skeleton, if and when those details will not be adjusted by an intractable Government that will not compromise according to the will of the majority of the House.
Very predictably, I expect there to be pre-pubescent taunts here of the infantile. Maybe some pointing at the screen, laughing, typing messages appended with the mundane “LOL” and “ROTFL”. Knock yourself out!
—–
On a related note, one of the items in the Throne Speech that caught my attention was that dealing with identity theft, very timely and apropos given news reports last week with regards to the Conservatives gathering personal information on Canadian citizens. I would like to see an amendment put forward by the Opposition to expand that portion of the bill to make it illegal for political parties to gather demographic profile data on supporters / detractors of said parties, and have their internal databases subjected to Auditor General review and publication of findings to guarantee compliance. I recognize that the parties should be able to keep basic lists of their supporters, but the content should be restricted to name/address/telephone number, and that’s it. Parties should be required to contact all persons on their list, inform them that their information has been collected, and require a signed release for said information. Non-supporters should be purged from the list, and there should be a mechanism for anyone on the list view their data upon demand and request purging.
That wasn’t courage; it was expediency. What an enormous disappointment – in the man, in the party.
Rob Wiebe ,
You failed to distinguish between Red Toryism and social conservatism. There are also different brands of Liberalism from classical to neo.
It isn’t fair just to lump everything together and call it “conservatism”.
BTW Red Toryism is HOT in Europe these days especially in Germany and France.
Sounds like Mr Dione has defined himself,Is Mr Harper a bully. Only a Coward can be bullied. Seems like Mr Dione is allowing himself to be bullied. Tell him to atleast act like a man!
My prediction is that those who wanted this government gone NOW will feel betrayed by the Liberal Party of Canada, and will now switch in droves to the NDP and to the Green Party. This was a response without courage and leadership that was based more on political opportunism than on principle.
All of this talk about bringing down that government for the past few months are now just that–all talk and no action. How are we going to believe anything that they SAY in the future?
Words are cheap, and mean nothing, if they are not followed up with actions.
If Stephane Dion does not agree with this Throne Speech, he should have thrown this government out. Actions speak louder than words.
And if there is a conflict between words and actions, people will believe what they SEE before they will believe what they HEAR.
Conservative / Liberal can you see the difference?
Think back to NAFTA, the GST, the SPP, Afghanistan and the position of each of these parties.
There is no difference, just a cascade of empty words.
By Dube on 10.17.07 6:15 pm
In my best Artie Johnson voice ‘Verrrrrry interesting!’ Good point BTW!
Does anyone have a link, or a transcript of what Dion said?
Oh yes, and regarding the CPC, it is not so much the message as the messengers that I find totally unacceptable. That is why we have elections and HoC, the point being to get Canadian’s opinions represented.
Really Bill, Iggy just looked plain uncomfortable to me the whole time Mr.Dion was speaking.
but Dion point blank told Layton ‘I will be the Prime Minsiter of Canada!’
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.17.07 6:14 pm
Bill, You didn’t hear if he said when he would be Prime Minister did you?
If the Cons reaction is at all indicative of Mr. Dion’s decision today then I would say he made the right one. They are just going ballistic at the moment. They thought they had Mr. Dion in the corner, but instead got played. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
God, Muskoka, you’re into the double-double rye early to-day.
What I saw was Dion denying Harper a majority by propping up his minority. Dion might as well have said that Harper has a four-year mandate, and we’ll stay out of the way and try to reorganize and again become a force to be reckoned with by the end of that mandate.
The scorn wasn’t long in coming, and a denied leadership crisis has just become an existential crisis for the LPC.
You’re right Ike, we are back to the greens since DION has wimped out!
“My prediction is that those who wanted this government gone NOW will feel betrayed by the Liberal Party of Canada, and will now switch in droves to the NDP and to the Green Party. This was a response without courage and leadership that was based more on political opportunism than on principle.
All of this talk about bringing down that government for the past few months are now just that–all talk and no action. How are we going to believe anything that they SAY in the future?
Words are cheap, and mean nothing, if they are not followed up with actions.
If Stephane Dion does not agree with this Throne Speech, he should have thrown this government out. Actions speak louder than words.
And if there is a conflict between words and actions, people will believe what they SEE before they will believe what they HEAR.
By Ike on 10.17.07 6:21 pm “
Garth, Time for you to “walk the talk”; despite the missteps over the past few weeks,The REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY PARTY OF CANADA, would welcome you to the fold. Come on over buddy…
“Not sure about that one, but it is satisfying to see Liberal supporters impotently gnash their teeth at the current PM like I used to at Chretien’s unsavoury behaviour.
Every time you call PMSH a bully, you align his perceived personality with that of Chretien and while I didn’t like him, he knew how to win elections.”
It is sad what “bullies” and their goons are doing to this country. I thought the new Conservatives put on a disgusting display while Dion was making his address in reply to the speech from the throne. It is what I have come to expect from them but every once in awhile you think they could show some class.
I may have lost my political party but Canada has lost a great deal more: respect.
I do not share Bill-Muskoka’s (new found?) enthusiasm for Dion and the Liberals (including Ignatieff?).
Dion may be an honest and well meaning individual but he has not convinced me he is the person to lead this country.
More booga booga from Bush and the bloody daft neocons, but what if he is talking about the upcoming Canadian federal election? Does it get that nasty?!!
http://rense.com/general78/warn.htm
I understand that Mr. Dion was just really, really concerned about the cost of a general election and about the risk of voter-fatigue. So he generously handed Harper the majority he’s been after without putting us all to the bother and expense of going to the polls. Pretty sporting of him, eh?
Of course some cynics are suggesting that he’s only interested in his own skin… but that’s such an ungenerous sentiment that it doesn’t even bear consideration. No true Canadian would even think of such a thing, it must be some CIA operative… LOL
Abstaining gives Harper a perfect excuse to avoid declaring confidence votes. One hand washes the other.
Dion says he’s doing this because the public doesn’t want an election. That’s bullshit. If Ottawa doesn’t fall this week its only because Dion doesn’t think he can win.
I don’t appreciate being lied to.
From Paul Wells, posted on his blog yesterday:
“Speaking of Liberals, if only a handful of them show up for a vote on the government’s basic program, they will be saying, nearly in so many words, that they have convictions but they don’t want those convictions to have consequences. …
If you believe something, you follow through. A quaint idea, which went out of fashion in the Liberal party shortly before the Liberal party went out of fashion in Canadian politics. Funny coincidence, that.”
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=pos&eid=43
By Ike on 10.17.07 6:21 pm
You above all others should know the goal is to win the WAR, not a meaningless battle.
This is not a Street Fight, it is Canada’s House of Commons, and intelligence is so refreshing, at least to me.
Hope your trip is going well?
Ike, I meant to add, the long term goal is what matters. Dion realized that, and bravely stood up for that principle.
An excellent look at Iraq, accompanied by the lies of both parties.
I understand why Bill-Muskoka and others come here to live.
http://superbeans.com/rant_03.htm
Just heard Dion is going to keep the governent in business. He’s HOPING that over time Harper will shoot himself in the foot annd possibly save Dion. Don’t put your money on Dion surviving beyond the next election whenever it is.
Mixed feelings, but hindsight suggests it is the better route, since it is based on pragmatism, rather than emotion.
Good on Dion for finding the ground that everyone can accept and for truly representing the will of his party members. Sometimes executive decisions must be deferred, and more opportune times will continue to come.
The throne speech is just a blueprint, and anyone can say anything to make shit smell like roses (although the CPC didn’t do such a good at that either).
Take each issue and see what the CPC actually proposes. Make them accountable to the Canadian public. Nail them on election financing abuses. Privacy laws. Abuse of parliament and its committees.
Just remember folks what the NDP did under Layton. It sold its entire platform and ideology (national day care, kelowna, kyoto, protection guarantees for charter rights…) for a few more seats and a “timeout”.
Thanks Garth for giving a voice and a forum to Canadians everywhere…
Austin
The good ship America is now descending into the abyss!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/10/16/bcnchina116.xml
~sigh~ I don’t like the direction, but I understand the reasons and the logic. The old saying that you only die once in war, but in politics you can die a thousands times.
I ezpect Garth will be follow the party lead here, since I know of no history of him actually voting against the party line on these kind of votes, even when he was CPC.
So we are in chess game while playing chicken. I don’t like it, now we get to see if Harper is willing to make Government work and can accept the fact that he is not in a majority, but a minority. Now Harper has to deliver.
Lines have been drawn in the sand, each side sit down at the chess board, while driving towards each other other in a game chicken.
I don’t like it, but I guess the are others who understand these political games better than I.
Yeah! Let’s have an election. Then when the Conservatives win a majority, we can get rid of Citoyen Dion and get someone who identifies more with Canada, say Michael Ignatief … oh wait … he spent half his life in bad ole America. Maybe Bob Rae … hmmmm … Bare Ass Bob Rae … the Emperor with no clothes, who left Ontarians with the same thing. Oh well … go ahead … let’s have an election. I say the time is right. C’mon … who’s with me? Well? Well? It’s awfully dark in here. Is anyone home?
Here is a terrific way to vent!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017125814.w6whem5y&show_article=1
BILL-MUSKRAT
You are deluding yourself terribly, but if that’s what it takes to get you through the day, don’t let me be the one to shatter your world.
Dion is not a good leader, otherwise he would not have announced that the entire Liberal party would be abstaining on the TS vote and following his decline. That is the last resort of a coward in a futile attempt to extend his political life, while the Liberal party disintegrates under his feet.
Not even Garth agrees with Dion, and now we await Garth’s explanation why he is still supporting Dion and the do-nothing Liberal party.
Dion is a bad leader because he has failed the country in not bringing down the Harper government. If he had any political conviction, he would not be concocting that bogus excuse that “Canadians don’t want an election.”, and hiding behind that feeble excuse. Most Liberals on this forum wanted an election now, so why did Dion back out?
Obviously Dion believes he cannot convince Canadians an election is necessary to defeat the Harper Conservatives, and make him the next prime minister of Canada. Dion is a coward, and NOT a leader, and those that follow a coward are pusillanimous poltroons .. like you ..!!
KEN: Anyone can be bullied.
And I don’t think it’s cowardic to think your way out of fight you don’t think you can win at the moment. I’m not an apologist for Dion and I’m the first one to say boot Harper out before he does anymore damange I actually agree with what Dion has done here. He’s effectively put the burden back on the neoCons. He’s said, “Listen, I can’t win it right now and if I’m reading the polls right now Canadians don’t want an election right now anyway and I gain more by actually doing the right (sounding) thing by saying I’m willing to make parliment work and let the cons pull the trigger on the election with uncalled for confidence vote on the very next piece of legislation”.
Speaking of which; What is this craziness of omnibus bills, THis is such an american thing to do. Pass all the item in one bill, good with the bad, rather than break them up into separate bits, and let the good go through absent of the bad.
By Ike on 10.17.07 6:21 pm
I couldn’t agree more, they have lost all credability as a party of principle.
Now neither party is acceptable. Sure would like to see more independents!
I’m fairly certain that all Opposition parties would support this, the Liberals perhaps grudgingly, definitely the NDP since they have been championing a similar cause this past Spring to prevent Elections Canada from sharing birthdate data with political parties, and the Block – who knows (after all Quebec is the home of the Sûreté, the most secretive police agency in the country)? I would also expect the Green’s shadow MPs to be supportive. It would certainly put the Conservatives in a bind; what would they say: “No, we want to continue collecting private information on Canadian citizens.” That’d sure go over well with voters.
“they don’t study facts then make a decision, they make a decision and make up factsâ€.
Bingo – sure fits Harper!
By slg on 10.17.07 11:55 am
A good one slg – definitely worth notepading.
By KPN on 10.17.07 12:17 pm
Liberal government made decision that child support was the most important thing to a child but didn`t even make up any facts, just that bold faced lie.
You two look funny with each others feet in your mouths.
By Dube on 10.17.07 6:15 pm
Oh yes, one addition to the above. The Auditor General should also be privy to examining third party contracts given to external organizations, hired to link the political party’s lists to separate demographic lists collected by those organizations. No farming out of the work to gather the information by stealth.
Jack and Gilles ran up the Hill…
I sorta envy them both. They have the luxury of playing toughest guys on the block, Jack because he’s marginal and doesn’t have much to lose and Gilles because he only has to play well in Quebec. Things are considerably more complex for Dion.
By KPK on 10.17.07 6:16 pm
I agree, KPK. I believe that people can have various combinations of two distinct systems of values and modes of thought — conservative and progressive.
I would say that a Red Tory is someone who is progressive when it comes to having an interventionist government and conservative when it comes to foreign policy, i.e. Canada does not need advice and should not yield to other nations who are less wise and less moral. The government should maintain its sovereignty, using its military strength if necessary.
-R
Bill I believe the more relevant saying is, YOU FIGHT THE FIGHTS THAT NEED TO BE FOUGHT. Always this does for me is convince me that the LPC has no conviction but self preservation. This is the party that has has for the last twenty one months screamed at the top of their lungs of the horror of the CPC govt, how it was going to horrible un-reversible damage to Canada. At their first opportunity to put up, they ran away. I say it is time for them to shut up. While I might not like the NDP, at least them and the Bloq have put forth their arguments and will stand by them and for that they have my respect.
By Charles Oxley on 10.17.07 7:01 pm
Yes, that pretty well sums up life as an American. After a half century of hearing promises, and seeing reality, I declared it a Lost Nation!
Now, I see Canada headed the same way, except for Dion’s speech today. He, and I, know that any government must work together, reach consensus, but with integrity, or the land will perish. History proves my point eloquently.
I read over most of the comments here, and what I see is “Canada is a land of brainwashed Hockey lovers who think everything can be accomplished fast and with brute force, and if the team is having problems, well then pick a new team!’
Fortunately, we have great people, with functional minds like Dion, Elizabeth May, and Garth, and many others in all parties who see the BIG picture of continuity.
Dion placed conditions on the Throne Speech, but damn, if anyone seems to grasp that simple fact. He turned the situation around and has now placed the burden upon Stephen Harper to make this government either work, or fail.
That, to me, is Leadership and wisdom, regardless of the politics. This nation needs a functional government, and the voices of ALL the people represented. A good idea is a good idea regardless of where it comes from.
BTW, regarding Kyoto, that is a moot point. We have blown the time frame, and that falls squarely on Harper, Baird, and Ambrose. No EXCUSES! Now we either break our international commitment or push hard to catch up. again, Harper’s ball to play.
As we move into the second phase perhaps we can now start actually dealing with the issues instead of cover the arses of the foreign national oil companies in Alberta? Interestingly, it seems their Golden Goose is committing incest at the moment. For those not clued in, read the news. I am not doing their work for them.
Personally, I think the government has about 2-4 weeks before it FALLS! I am hoping that maturity and rational thought for the best of this great nation prevails, but confidence is not high. Dion knows that too!
It will be intersting, but until Canadians start using their brains for something other than hockey scores, they will repeat the same errors, and that is INSANE!
Well I guess Mr. Harper will be fully supportive of Elections Canada into his advertising spending in the last election. I also guess the MPs that were looking into can get back to their work now since we no longer need to worry about burka-game.
I also guess not spending a quarter billion on another election is also a plus.
Also I should be able to find plenty of material to photoshop given Bulldog Biard’s yapping in the house today.
So not a complete loss, and we get see Harper yap about how he has a majority now. Ah, there is always humour at the end of day.
Here is a terrific way to vent!
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071017125814.w6whem5y&show_article=1
By Charles Oxley on 10.17.07 7:20 pm
“Swearing at work boosts team spirt, morale: research”
Whats team spirt?
Disclosure –
The reason I am so down on the LPC to-day is not that they have disappointed my hopes of getting rid of the neo-Con disgrace. It is that this afternoon has shown that, despite all the talk and blustering, there is no Liberal organization that could fight an election, and not even a platform to fight an election on.
Harper doesn’t need a majority – he has no opposition. And a lot of MPs and party officials have been drawing their salaries under false pretences.
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 7:16 pm
Yes, Dion is well equipped to play a game of Chess. Recall the origins of the game. Recall the results of Salhadin, and know that the Master sees the entire game. The opponent relies on vague and meaningless things such as polls and coffers.
By Harry S on 10.17.07 7:20 pm
Yes, Hairy Arse. You keep believing, if you build it they will come, or the Sheriff with foreclosure papers. Enjoy the moment!
I’ve always been intrigued
when someone/something is labelled
“progressive”. Who decides what it actually means?
Bill, You didn’t hear if he said when he would be Prime Minister did you?
By Marc on 10.17.07 6:38 pm
No, as I said, I could not hear what was said due to the kiddies on the goobernment side, but Hansard will have it.
I just watched Dion’s speech.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071016/throne_speech_071017/20071017?hub=QPeriod
(see video on right menu)
I’m a Green supporter. I know both Garth and Elizabeth May wanted to have an election, but as I’ve stated before, I think Dion made the right choice. No previous government has ever fallen due to an unsupported thrown speech. They’re too vague, and any aspect of it could be used against the old opposition during an election.
Though Dion’s delivery could use some polishing, I’m very impressed with his substance. He is a diplomat, and an honourable leader. Compared to Harper, I think Dion would make a far better Prime Minister… next to Elizabeth May of course. ;-D
The NDP are definitely setting themselves up for disappointment by denying the potential of the upcoming Greens. Message to Jack Layton: Stop the partisan rhetoric, figure out your current realistic place in history, and be a team player.
The amazing thing is, even with all the “turmoil” in the Liberal party, why have the Conservatives hardly changed their overall support? They may claim they haven’t lost their previous support because of their leader, but they definately haven’t gained support because of their leader.
Don’t fret Garth & Elizabeth. I’m sure Mr. Harper will engineer his own demise soon enough.
For awhile I thought I was the only one who witnessed the disgraceful behaviour of the new Conservatives.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/267942
By Ida Tjosvold on 10.17.07 4:48 pm
I see you also recognize the subleties of what Dion did today!
Watched the TS and as per normal it was fairly clear. Mr Harper limited it to five points to govern. I watched the leaders today in the house. Each leader put their own spin on what was in the TS which is normal. However, I did notice something that caught my eye. Mr Harper does look like a Prime Minister. I think the more people see of him and his policies they will find that he is not as scary as some MP’s would have us believe.
I have a difficult time understanding how anyone could find anything in the TS to complain about. These are all priorities to the country. The only argument is that each party with the exception of the Bloc would implement them differently.
The TS is over and everyone has staked out their positions. Let the government get on with running the country. Let us not turn ourselves into a banana republic.
David
Tho I responded that the Libs should automatically say NO to the TS, and haven’t read most of the posts here or the MSM pundits, I’ve been thinking since then that the Libs should let the TS pass and when a bill is presented to the house that is unacceptable the Libs should present their amendments & let the CONS declare a non confidence vote. It will be the Cons who will be seen in the public eye as causing an election.
HARPER IS A HYPROCIT
Bush finally did one thing right. Today he presented the American Congressional Gold Medal award , granted by the Congress of the United States, to the Dali Lama. The Chinese Assembly (Congress, whatever) rose, like brainless ideologues against the act and threatened consequences to the U.S.
This is the mark of Totalitarian regime, one which is unbending, unable to get outside its own ideology. One whose very existence depends on mass comformity to an ideal.
So, when the Dali Lama comes to Canada, which will be quite soon, will we worry about China’s rants, or stand TALL for truth, freedom, and real democracy?
Will China cutoff trade with the U.S. and Canada? ROFLMAO! Yeah, about the same time they stop eating noodles, rice, and fish! BTW, checked your toys for lead paint lately? How is your pet food doing?
By KH on 10.17.07 8:36 pm
The Bloq and the NDP had the fortunate luxury of choosing the grand stand.
Self preservation is a sign of life.
Garth take a pill. You are such a wind bag nobody can take anything serious that escapes your lips.
Dion was forced to face the reality of his situation and knew he had no choice but to abstain or whatever term of defeat you want to put on it. He capitulated and will die (future confidence motions) another day in the not too distant future. On that you are right.
Dion has lost the respect of parliamentarians and has become a laughing stock within the MSM and pundits are tearing him apart for this about face. That’s saying something because we know the PPG and the media support the Liberal party and its socialist agenda.
Harper has outmanoevred all the opposition parties and you can yell and scream and misrpresent the facts all you want but you all look like a bunch of pikers against this master strategist and tactician. The Liberals are getting what they deserve. They outsmarted themselves by being obstructionist in the last parliament. Pretending you support legislation and then with a wink and a nod getting the unelected Liberal senators to ignore and delay legislation. Those days are over and this is how it should be. Support the government’s agenda or force a vote of non confidence and let the people decide. That is really democracy in action. The people are always right.
By the way this b.s. about Canadians not wanting an election is pure hogwash to put it kindly. If you guys were up in the polls we know what would have happened with the throne speech. Right?
ZORPHEOUS
Can you find a picture of a chicken and photoshop Dion’s head on it’s scrawny neck? I’m sure Garth can use that picture for his next blog entry.
Dion is too chicken to face and convince Canadians that Harper is bad for Canada.
Meanwhile Garth has the necessary cajones to take his case to Canadians, because Garth is committed to his principles and faith in Canadians. Garth can communicate.
Perhaps Garth will title his next blog entry “Chicken Soup” and use your morphed chicken picture, because when cowardice exceeds principles that’s what you get.
By KH on 10.17.07 8:36 pm
There are but two groups in this contest. Those who seek the best for our country, Canada, and those who seek power at all costs.
Today, IMHO, Dion chose Canada over power and popular emotions.
Bill I believe the more relevant saying is, YOU FIGHT THE FIGHTS THAT NEED TO BE FOUGHT. Always this does for me is convince me that the LPC has no conviction but self preservation. This is the party that has has for the last twenty one months screamed at the top of their lungs of the horror of the CPC govt, how it was going to horrible un-reversible damage to Canada. At their first opportunity to put up, they ran away. I say it is time for them to shut up. While I might not like the NDP, at least them and the Bloq have put forth their arguments and will stand by them and for that they have my respect.
By KH on 10.17.07 8:36 pm
Well you would KH – the NDP, the Greens and the PQ have nothing to lose – they know the’ll never form a govt for a long time. But they’ll, for their own self interests, instead of Canadian interests, attack the libs and prop up the cons. Where will that get them in the long term – no help for the lower enconomic stream of Cdns, no help for taxes for the underprivileged, just another 1% for those high income eearners who might benefit – no day care spaces, etc.
The NDP propped up the Cons cause they hated the Libs. Wd never vote for them again and sent a msg last night to that effect. Once admired them, but am disgusted by their stance. They know they’ll never form a govt, so they can attack whomever. But, they’re screwing the party whose goals are the most closest to theirs.
Although I want a fight and an election, I listened (not watched) Mr. Dion worm his way out with the best they could come up with. Then I avoided all tv pundits. Hindsight I think there is a plan, I’m willing to wait a bit longer and see if I can get behind it. Oh I’m disgusted with the pretender pm, I’m disgusted with the entire party, but going to practice being the tortoise. I think one of the reasons I’m so gung ho on an election is because the other pretender king (busho) totally freaks me out and you know, his type of fantacism could rub off more than it already has on our pretender. The A*&Hole to the south of us won’t give American kids healthcare, but he will spend gazillions of American taxes on a war he won’t win.
The middle class are literally imploding there and it could happen here very easily. In fact it has already started. 2 houses on my very low to middle income street have gone into foreclosure. Two families gone, I don’t know where. Both families went from 2 incomes to 1 for reasons I’m not aware of. It’s a reminder of how easy it can happen to anyone. This pretender gov’t only governs for the privilleged, and if the Liberals want my vote, they need to steer left on social policies and loosen up the impossible criteria for social programmes, when one is out of work. As it is expect bankruptcies to rise. Hang in Garth, and continue to keep us posted.
Dear Mr. Harper,
If you TRULY want to continue to govern and NOT have an election, like you have said repeatedly since the passage of the mandatory four year elections law, then you simply have to vote for ONE of the opposition party’s ammendments.
You need not depend on M. Dion, nor M. Duceppe, nor Mr. Layton.
Let’s face it, M. Dion may change his mind because of the lies about, and mischaracterizations of, the Liberal Party you spewed in the House this afternoon.
If you don’t vote for ONE of the opposition party’s ammendments then I am forced to conclude that you have been LYING about your desire to NOT have an election.
As it stands right now your governing fate is TOTALLY withinin your own hands.
Will you vote for one of the ammendments Mr. Harper, or have you been lying all along?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
MB
Exactly Herb, exactly, they have nothing except a lot of talk. Bill be serious for a moment please, they know they were in a minority govt, how could they be this unprepared, how could they allow the “natural governing party” to get this screwed up. Think about this just for a second, the three other parties are all prepared. Who is responsible for this. By taking this course of action they are further hurting their chances not improving them, the only thing they can hope for is the CPC steps hard on their you know what with their golf shoes on, and somehow I do not think that is going to happen.
Garth’s silence is deafening!
By Harry S on 10.17.07 9:47 pm
Dion’s head on a chicken is to easy and way to un-original,… but you did give me an idea for my toon for tomorrow.
By the way, Garth doesn’t always use all my material, he uses what he sees fit to use as do other bloggers. Garth will be first to tell you, sometimes I am a pain in ass.
BTW, thanks for the idea, I like it ~evil grin~
Stop being a pain in the ass. — Garth
Sorry Garth, but you’ll have a chance again at an election. No thinking Canadian wants an election right now. What Canadians want is a government that works instead of electioneering.
Harper got played at his own game today. He drooled for an election and was denied. Pity the poor kitty under his chair tonight!
Now Harper has to put up and shut up. Harper made such a big deal about “getting things done” for Canada, now’s his chance to do something for Canada, not just his party. I wish him luck with that.
From what I’ve seen of the Cons, fail once and they give you a niggling pass; fail twice and they start looking at you sideways; fail thrice and they gut you like a fish.
Dion went fishing and landed the biggest pike(r) in the country. It was a great day for Canada!
And while we’re on the subject of leadership, lets look beneath the surface a little to determine why PM Harper thinks that Stephane Dion is not a leader.
By all accounts from within the Conservative Caucus Mr. Harper tells his people to sit down, shut up, and do what they are told. And so far it has worked for him because he has surrounded himself with weakness… ‘YES-people’.
M. Dion, however, surrounds himself with strength, people who are not afraid to contribute to the discussion for the benefit of the entire group, and these same people who, having made their arguments, ALL line up behind the leader’s decision once the final decision has been made.
Yesterday’s caucus meeting where 30 MPs voiced their opinions is a perfect example.
Of course Mr. Harper thinks that M. Dion is a ‘weak’ leader… M. Dion is not a ‘Dictatorial’ leader which is the only type of leader that Mr. Harper has respect for.
It is okay that Mr. Harper and his unwitting allies in the press on this matter mis-characterize M. Dion’s exemplary leadership.
M. Dion will continue to move steadfastly towards the goal of leading a Canada where ALL VOICES have value in the achievement of the BEST POSSIBLE CANADA that Canadians have ever lived, worked and played in.
Keep up the excellent leadership M. Dion.
We are with you.
Sincerely,
MB
By Harry S on 10.17.07 9:47 pm
Good call.
Its fair.
I’d like to see Zorpheus’ compilation of todays screen shot.
P.S., unless my riding runs a more popular Liberal, I will have to vote NDP (it is an NDP bastion). However, I have put my NDP MP on notice that he’ll have my vote only because of ABC, NOT because I admire the machinations the NDP has engaged in for pure political purposes.
Jack Layton looked like an old rooster today, crowing over a coop of bedraggled aged hens, unmindful of the Farmer who’s sizing him up for the stewpot while he’s got new roosters and hatching in the incubator. His performance was not parliamentarian quality at all. Perhaps Mulcair for next leader of the NDP?
Those old roosters need to be taught a rudimentary lesson: ABC but not necessarily thee.
Listen Grasshopper,
Time is of the essence. Now holds all that will be. From strength now will come weakness. From weakness now will come strength.
What do you mean, Smiling Moon Face? Speak without allegory. I’m a concrete sequential thinker and do not follow vague allusion.
Where in your thoughts will I find concrete?
Ah… well… No just tell me what do you mean, please?
Is Mr. Harper becoming stronger or weaker?
Weaker, I think.
Let him continue. Be calm, peaceful and posed in your weakness. From weakness you will become stronger.
but what about Kyoto? the world is safe just as long as Stephan gets to be PM this year. he said so himself …
Ahahaha!
Garth, now that you disagree with this leader, which party is next?
You are an idiot. — Garth
…
…
Gee…I wish I could get access to all the soundbites that every single CPC supporter is using…all that parroting…I mean consistency…is simply…remarkable. The sheer intellect that this involves is astounding. Problem is that I’ll be giving away all of my personal information, my ISP, then get all these phone calls and greeting cards…just to make me feel real special and all…hey just like the Soviets! And who said that Stalin was dead?
I’m glad all of the CPC supporters are so concerned with the fortunes of the LPC and Dion…it brings a tear to my eye…keep the broken record…I mean insights coming…
And at least the CPC should find its balls and call by-elections now…we all know how well the CPC will fair…you tell us all the time!
Otherwise the CPC is just underlining how much of a craven little chickens**t that it really is…
Austin
BTW…Garth…I hope you guys keep video records of the behaviour of the CPC members of Parliament, just to give Canadians how “effective government” looks like in the eyes of the CPC…
Austin
Yes, Hairy Arse. You keep believing, if you build it they will come, or the Sheriff with foreclosure papers. Enjoy the moment!
By Bill-Muskoka on 10.17.07 9:17 pm
—————————————-
You laud cowardice and mistake it for courage. You are truly a desperate little man sitting on a piece of ice that is melting quickly due to Harper Heat.
I trust you will disappear from this weblog forum once your hero Dion is gone.
Courage or cowardice ??? The latter I think.
I’ll admit I’m an undecided Red Tory and first-time poster. If an election were held today, my vote could go either way. I’m going to stick to the facts, and cut through some of the spin.
Fact #1 – Google “Canadians don’t want an election.” You’ll get back 761+ results. Hmmm…where have I heard that line before? Ahh yes, the last federal election. Ironically, the Canadians that “didn’t want an election†reversed a declining voter trend that time around. Despite predictions that Canadians would rather keep warm at home during a mid-winter election, voter turnout actually increased almost five per cent from over the record low recorded in the previous federal vote. Nearly 65 per cent of eligible voters went to the polls, compared to 60.9 per cent on June 28, 2004. That’s the biggest voter turn out of the last three elections. Perhaps the Canadians that don’t want elections are part of the 35% who don’t actually vote in the first place?
Fact #2 – Stephen Harper is enjoying the 4th longest serving minority government in Canadian history. And, he’s doing this with the smallest minority seat total ever achieved in Canadian history. He is the first Prime Minister to win with a whopping 30 seats short of a majority, and even with the recent byelections the distribution of seats in the House of Commons is as follows: Conservatives 126; Liberals 96, Bloc 49, NDP 30, Independent 3, vacant 4. That’s still 28 seats short, and more tenure than all but three minority Canadian governments.
Fact #3 – This is the longest serving Conservative minority government in Canadian history.
Yet no one has the courage to say that the time for this minority government is up. Aren’t opposition leaders supposed to aspire to want to be Prime Minister? (You need an election for that). Aren’t the opposition parties at least supposed to oppose the things they oppose? What are the opposition parties waiting for? Harper still has a minority government that is 28 seats short—still the largest gap in Canadian history. Yet it seems the opposition parties are the only ones compromising in this minority situation, effectively creating an artificial majority for Harper every time there’s a confidence vote. Has everyone forgotten last year’s Halloween trick with income trusts? I wonder what’s in the treat bag this year. Maybe the opposition’s real plan of attack is to continue this minority love-in, and have Harper become longest serving minority Prime Minister in Canadian history.
Some here are calling Dion a chicken. To me, he is clearly a lame duck opposition leader. Facetiously, if I were a spin-doctor, I’d seriously consider having Dion physically collapse from the stress, and let the deputy take over, sparing another convention. While I’m dreaming, I’d have Ignatieff give Dion CPR and have the picture of it on the front cover of every national newspaper to symbolize Ignatieff breathing new life into the party. Hell, I’d even have him flush the Throne Speech sans amendments where it belongs, down a throne of a different kind to remind Harper that he doesn’t have a majority yet. He is still well short of majority territory in the polls and he trails the Liberals in Ontario. Dion was right when he said “never before has a federal government fallen on the basis of a throne speech.†What he left out is that traditionally minority governments don’t last long enough for too many of them as most minority governments have lasted less than two years. Harper’s past the average mark. Maybe they’ll oppose the next throne speech…
For awhile I thought I was the only one who witnessed the disgraceful behaviour of the new Conservatives.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/267942
By C. B. Innes on 10.17.07 9:21 pm
C.B there is a ton of footage the other way around in QP..stop being so partisan….
Good call.
Its fair.
I’d like to see Zorpheus’ compilation of todays screen shot.
By David M on 10.17.07 10:44 pm
You can always visit my blog, my sh*t is there, the good, the bad and the Harper ~evil grin~
BTW, thanks for the idea, I like it ~evil grin~
Stop being a pain in the ass. — Garth
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 10:32 pm
I learned from the Master Garth ~grin~
I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Hook line and sinker
By got rope? on 10.17.07 2:20 pm
Yeah, tell the whole story … She looked at you and PUKED!
People, a reminder –
sparring with Sean P. is like wrestling with a pig; everyone gets dirty, but the pig loves it.
He’s the lightweight of our neo-Con trolls, and here only to needle and distract.
By Herb on 10.17.07 1:49 pm
Seems you have a hard time following up on your accusations. Especially when I can prove you oh so wrong.
Another thing Herb. What is a neo-con? You use that term so often and yet you never back it up with any proof. Prove to everyone that I’m a neo-con.
Just as a side note Sean, I have been through the entire thread here and I really can’t find anything of constructive substance from you, nut if I’m wrong, please feel free to point out where you added something meaningful here today. Otherwise this sparing with you is really pointless.
By Zorpheous on 10.17.07 1:52 pm
Zorph, one can say the same for you. But then, you are a liberal.
Honestly Garth. I would like to live the day until I read something bad that you wrote about INEPT Dion. You are really something else! Every newspaper is crucifying Dion for capitulating yet you think that he has courage. go figure. Dion knows that if an election is called Harper will win and he will be toast as the leader of Lieberals.
Bill M rote;
>Stephane Dion is not merely some >‘professor’ he is the Leader of the >Queen’s Official Opposition.
Then why isn’t he acting like a leader. Yes Dion is a professor and like Harper stated he marks the term paper with everything that is wrong and then passes you just the same. Sorry Bill that is not leadership but a cop out and a sign that he just hasn’t the tools to be a true leader of our official opposition. He was out maneuvered by the NDP, Bloc and the Conservatives.
Everyone with any political sense knows full well that what Dion is doing about the TS has absolutely nothing to do with the good of the people but rather everything to do with trying to shore up the sad state of affairs in the Liberal party as well as his own self preservation as leader of the Liberal party.
I trust you will disappear from this weblog forum once your hero Dion is gone.
By Harry S on 10.17.07 11:50 pm
Not likely. Dion is a fine man I respect, because he has EARNED my respect by his actions and words. I am not even a Liberal, I am Green, but know content of character when I see it. Dion has it.
Something you will have to work harder than you ever have in your pitiful excuse of a life to acquire. Just go back to reading the Western Standard or Toronto Sun.
Garth,
Just flick a saltine cracker to Polly…She is parroting what she has been taught, and is probably hungry.
By Van on 10.18.07 6:49 pm
Ah, Van Loan has a thought. Did you clear that with Steve?