Income trust investors made their presence heard, and seen, on Parliament Hill today, the first anniversary of the Flaherty Massacre. For video coverage, click on the links below.
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“Today i am ashamed to be a liberal. If you haven’t got enough guts to oppose the goverment, then join them, so the true liberals can rebuild…….cowards.†– Email, Oct. 31, 3 pm.
Entering the opposition lobby beside the House of Commons, my Blackberry buzzed as I was coming back from QP. The bells had just begun to ring, meaning in fifteen minutes we’d be voting on a government motion to start approval of yesterday’s mini-budget. As usual before a vote, the place was packed, and one of my colleagues – MP Mauril Belanger – seemed to be getting a lot of attention.
I scanned the Berry. It was vibrating to tell me two things. The CBC was reporting that Belanger would defy Stephane Dion and not abstain on the coming vote. The caucus meeting I’d been in three hours earlier was being described as stormy and divisive, with a reporter saying how anguished the Liberals MPs were. My little screened also displayed the email above, which had just come in from a voter somewhere in Canada
Sitting down beside one of the MPs from the Maritimes, I showed him the email message. He grunted. Around us the noise level was rising fast as a lot of my colleagues huddled and buzzed. I saw Mauril leaving, trailed by a senior Liberal member.
My Atlantic friend and I chatted about the vote, the leader, caucus, abstaining, the election and the Conservatives. Like me, he was conflicted. We both supported the Jim Flaherty moves to drop personal income taxes and corporate taxes – after all, that’s exactly what we’d been calling for. But we also both agreed $6 billion a year could be better spent right now on a dramatic climate change strategy, or even lower income taxes, or child care or lots more doctors, than another 1% drop in the GST.
I told him about the 50 Town Hall meetings I’d had across five provinces since Parliament adjourned in June. At virtually every one, I’d asked people if they wanted a GST cut, or lower income taxes, and at every one the vote was the same – cutting the sales tax was simply not the highest priority. And yet Mr. Flaherty in the space of just 23 months would be slicing 2% off the GST, at an annual cost of almost $12 billion.
So, the vote was not simple. Complicating it was the fact PMSH had declared it would be a confidence motion. A No vote would plunge the country into an election tomorrow – the third federal contest in just three years, with a ballot day a few weeks before Christmas.
So, the choice: Vote yes to support a return to a pre-Harper income tax rate, but at the same time ratify the GST cut with no action on the environment and other issues. Or, vote no and be thrust into an election on tax cuts – when Liberals in general, and me in particular, have fought every day for lower taxes.
Complicating the decision were those factors I wrote about two days ago (“What we needâ€) – a rapidly eroding US economy, falling greenback, manufacturing crisis in Canada and the danger we could import the American real estate meltdown with the wrong moves in Ottawa. Jim Flaherty had been silent on that, while wildly emptying the treasury in what was obviously a political move. Clearly the economy needs lower taxation, but it also needs cheaper interest rates and some bold moves to encourage innovation and make us more competitive, especially with a $1.05US loonie.
I sat there in one of those mock antique wing chairs and thought about it all. Was it being a coward not to take Mr. Harper’s bait and end up tomorrow trying to explain why Liberals denied the country tax cuts? After all, that’s exactly the trap he’d set. Was it being cowardly to delay an election until the major issues – climate change, the housing threat and a looming retirement crisis, for example – could be dealt with? Did it show a lack of guts to be strategic and delay calling out Stephen Harper until the best moment for his defeat? Was it cowardice to refuse the bully what he wanted, exactly when he wanted it? Would it have been easier, sexier, more manly and decisive to take the bait of the Conservatives and the anonymous Internet heroes and the breathless media, and vote no? And the result?
The bells were about to stop. Time to vote. We got up, exchanged a knowing glance, and took our seats on the other side of the gold curtains.
I abstained with balls.
_____________________________________________
Jilted income trust investor Dave Marshall actually pilled it off today. Dave and dozens of his friends and supporters made it to the steps of Parliament Hill with their homemade signs and their defiance, on this first anniversary of the Flaherty Massacre.
They got lots of media attention, plus the support of MPs, then they all piled into the gallery for QP and applauded wildly (and quite illegally) as pointed questions were hurled at the prime minister and his finance minister. The PM avoided all questions of responsibility, refused to apologize, and attacked the Liberals. The silver-haired crew in the gallery may have expected such disrespect, but it was still a shock to behold.
To view an MPTv video of the Income Trust vigil, click here.
To view a video interview with Finance Critic John McCallum on income trusts, click here.
175 comments ↓
“I abstained with balls.”
No you didn’t. You abstained out of fear. You and your leader know you can not even fight an election campaign let alone win one.
The party is broke. There is no fund raising making any gains. The Quebec wing is in shambles. There are no policies that Canadians can even see not to mention embrace. There is no climate change policy, no economic policy. The leader is weak and hiding.
Yes money bills are confidence votes. That is no secret and it is no “bully” tactic.
The mini budget had broad based tax cuts through GST cut, lowering income tax and raising personal exemption. You didn’t support it. Abstaining is not supporting tax cuts all the while you guys are mouthing off to cut taxes.
Don’t think that won’t be used against you in the election.
Gee, stop sounding like you just lost the vote. Hey, maybe you did. — Garth
Other then with a lower consumption tax, how would an income tax cut help the poorest Canadians who pay no income tax in the first place? How would the Liberal party help the lowest wage earners without a reduction of a consumption tax?
My constituents would like lower income tax, thank you. With the “new reduction” it will be back where it was two years ago – and after the Conservatives collected $2 billion extra. Shame. — Garth
Terrific blog! And yes, the people would prefer income tax cuts to a GST cut. But there is that big silent Harper majority hidden out there somewhere, nodding assent to the GST cut. Maybe Mr. Harper really does have a phantom majority, in more ways than one. And I think the Liberals will put up a very good fight come election time, better than Harper’s phantom majority might imagine, if the issues can get the attention they deserve, and if the media can chase the phantoms away and focus on the issues as well.
“Complicating it was the fact PMSH had declared it would be a confidence motion. A No vote would plunge the country into an election tomorrow”
All money bills are confidence motions are they not?
“Or, vote no and be thrust into an election on tax cuts – when Liberals in general, and me in particular, have fought every day for lower taxes.”
Well you could campaign on a platform of taxs cuts just as easily as Harper. If you guys plan to abstain from every vote until Oct 2009 you won’t have much left to run on.
And what was that Dion said about he may raise the GST up again? yikes.
It was a motion, not legislation. — Garth
My constituents would like lower income tax, thank you. With the “new reduction†it will be back where it was two years ago – and after the Conservatives collected $2 billion extra. Shame. — Garth
Your constituents got lower income tax. Do you not have any poverty level constituents? If so how would you reduce their taxes.
Garth, quick question, about a month ago Mr. Harper stated that the estimated 14 billion surplus would be used exclusively for paying off the national debt and the approximate 750 million in interest payments would be used for tax cuts,… is this just hot air or is this still going forward?
I also had dinner with a bunch local business people, they are not looking forward to retuning their software systems for handle another GST cut. Two income tax accountants that were there were in mettle down mode about all the tax changes. When I said “At least it will be busy for them,…” I got some of the coldest stares I had ever seen.
Why do you even mention your constituents anyway. Did you abstain from the motion on their behalf or the parties behalf?
Speaking of fear. According to tonight’s news, it would seem that Mulroney had far more fear of Revenue Canada than of the courts? Otherwise, why would he have claimed AS INCOME the $300,000 he covertly received from Schrieber?
Maybe, somewhere in his taxpayer paid travels, he sat in a pub and heard about
The little man who came in, sat down, and listened to the bartender brag about how NO ONE had ever been able to squeeze even one drop from a lemon the bartender had squeezed.
The little fellow sat there, watched the bartender take a fresh lemon and SQUEEZE it until nary even one more drop would emerge.
The little fellow bet the bartender that if he could squeeze another drop from the lemon that for each drop he would get a free drink.
The bartender accepted the bet.
The little man took the lemon and in his tiny hand squeezed it.
First one drop, then another, and another, and another, until he had squeezed four more drops from the impenetrable lemon.
The bartender stood there, his jaw dropped, and shaking he said ‘No one, not the biggest, strongest customer has ever been able to do that. Who are you?’ the bartender asked.
The little man replied ‘I am an Auditor for Revenue Canada!’
Thus ends the lesson for today!
Garth, no matter how badly and how quickly we want to be rid of Harper and his ilk, it makes no sense to take them down until we can be more assured of a win and best of all, a majority.
To all of the naysayers who think that abstaining is a sign of weakness, I say it is just the opposite. It takes great
strength and also, as you say, balls, to
withstand all of the criticism and wait
for the right moment. What would be the
point to play into Harper’s hands and possibly give him a majority or at the least, another minority? The media would
love it. The ones who were crying, it would be political suicide to bring the government down over the TS are the same
ones today, who are saying, how much longer can they abstain. We will live to
fight another day and remember, He Who Laughs Last, Laughs Best.
I am disappointed with what you have become. You used to be the guy who stood up for what he believed in and wanted to bring politics back to the people. Now you have become a Liberal apologist on a personal crusade against Harper. Dion’s failure is becoming your failure as well. Liberal fortunes will not turn around and Dion is getting weaker each day he demonstrates that he lacks courage or conviction. He is obviously no leader and even Quebec Liberals want to call an election today and minimize the disaster. Iggy is planning a takeover. At what point do you apologize and beg Harper to let you keep your seat by returning to the Conservative caucus. Otherwise at least recover your credibility by going independent again. As a Liberal you are sinking in the quick sand too. Your party is the laughing stock of the nation.
Beg to rejoin the Harper Reformers? Forget it. Stephen Harper laughs to folks like you, who wish to bring politics back closer to the people. He is the antithesis of that. I’m sticking to what I believe in. Let’s see who laughs last, shall we? — Garth
You and the Liberal party are doing the right thing by abstaining on legislation that would be considered a non-confidence vote, if you voted against it.
The only problem is that you must continuously and consistently abstain from voting if you don’t want to cause an election Canadians don’t want.
How much longer can the Liberal party continue to abstain voting on important legislation and how can Dion’s leadership survive with such a timorous tactic ??
I would think a caucus revolt could develop if you Liberals continue on this path of non-existence.
Your constituents got lower income tax. Do you not have any poverty level constituents? If so how would you reduce their taxes.
By Marc on 10.31.07 10:31 pm
Are you going to answer his question, Garth, or just avoid it because you have no answer?
The GST cut will do virtually nothing for lower-income Canadians, since the bulk of their after-tax income is spent on necessities (such as food and rent) which are GST-exempt. Besides, those with lower incomes get the GST credit, which offsets the impact of the tax. Therefore the greatest net beneficiaries of this GST cut are higher-income people and, of those, the rich benefit the most (I will save another $1,000 on a new Mercedes). Helping those with “poverty level” incomes therefore has virtually nothing to do with tax policy, and everything to do with economic opportunity and government services. Fostering opportunity and expanding services takes government intervention and spending, not a lower GST. — Garth
Garth:
I’m not sure I agree with teh strategy of the Liberal Party to abstain from voting- isn’t that essentially saying you support it? It is making all the Liberal Party look weak, and if this keeps up, the media will have a hey-day (as is Mr. Layton- not to worry about him though) about it.
Why couldn’t the Libs stand up and vote YES for the mini-budget, and explain that they supported tax cuts for Canadians, and like most economists, felt the 1% GST cut was not the best choice… but not entirely bad either. Do you think many Canadians would not understand this?
Was Dion’s comment to “raise the GST” a slip of the tongue so he will not get re-elected?
Where are the Liberal alternative strategies????? Doesn’t the Party have to define themselves as the balanced, middle-governing Party instead of a “wait and see” attitude? I think many Canadians are getting tired of waiting for this, and want an Opposition in Parliament. What think ye?
No balls, should we now call Mrs….or Gartha? Your site is falsely advertised by the way Gartha, “unedited”…many of my postings (especially ones exposing your lies) don’t get on. You’re losing credibility by the minute.
Would that loss of credibility extend to a Conservative operative who has posted on this site 190 times over the past few months using the following handles:
Jean
Big L Man
William Laidlaw
Helen
fishbank
Randy
Brent L.
Rob
Mitch
pushnet
Charles Manson
gino zaffino
Harrison
ron
biff
Ross
R. Moore
Trevor Johnson, and more? — Garth
By Zorpheous on 10.31.07 10:35 pm
Zorpheous, I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the surplus came from us taxpayers in the first place, so all CRAP is doing is handing our money back to us.
It appears (to me, anyway) that it is a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, and then twisting it the other way back again.
Garth is right on one thing — the vast majority of Canadians would prefer a major income tax cut, not a consumption tax cut, based on how the economy is doing.
It doesn’t concern me too much, as I am on a disability pension with a wage replacement loss.
For other people, though, a consumption tax cut is a temporary measure — when the Feds run short of money (which they eventually will, because of Flaherty’s excessive spending), they will up the tax rates again, blaming the Libs, Bloc and NDP for something those three parties never did — raise the total debt level.
Keep positive news releases coming out from the Libs, Garth — don’t waste time attacking the CONS, as they’re already digging themselves into an exremely large hole — instead use the short time left before an election to present the best possible option — a majority Lib government, along with several Greens replacing CRAPpers and NDPers.
The phoenix is rising from the ashes!
IT For Income Trusts
Remember, Remember
The 1st Of November
The Conservative’s Income Trust Treason And Plot
I Know Of No Reason
Why The Income Trust Treason
Should Ever Be Forgot
Harper, Flaherty and the other CONServative minions are too embarrassed and worried about the political fallout should they actually admit their mistake and incompetence.
Following George Bush’s Republican regime playbook, they continue to damn the torpedoes (irrespective of the results and consequences) and repeat the scripted lies, assuring themselves that they have pulled the wool over the eyes of uninformed Canadians and voters.
Once again reee….strength is strength.
So Canadians got a tax brake, look the little stuff is due now and the rest is promises. The real hard issues are coming as Garth as pointed out. Should the Bully on the Hill get his way with an election we are doomed! Why, because he wiill sock all kinds of user fee’s on his responsibilities and blame povincial goverments for not looking after health care forcing provinacial goverments to rasie taxes……..hello out their, “Do you really think the Bully on the Hill is buying you a free lunch” Just wait until the gas prices go through the roof, and remember this oil man stood in our H of C and said all tax money over 75 cents a litre should be returned to Canadians at the pumps! Look south ladies and gentlemen there is storm coming, Garth is the weather man and he is not alone, Afghanistan is going south fast, and Iraq has been leveled and the mortage criss is just stating to heat up, it will be long cold winter in more ways than one, and the Bully on the Hill knows and wants to strike now before he has to deal with it. The Bully can promise all he wants but his express train may just be stuck on track “R” because the good times are about to slow down. Stop Look and Listen to Garth’s posts. If he all that is saying is so wrong, where is the constructive words of opposition? hmmm I hear no postive words for the future…do you if so please tell us….please I will listen we all will just post em…..please.
If you get a break check out long term health care for yourself or your spouse or your parents. Make the call. then think about the costs? 3500 per month or 1/2 of your estate just for starters? Then ask yourself what if I loose my job? and stop and listen again. What is the CPC talking about? GST, Senate, Gun Control, Crime, Quebec, Afghanistan 2011 at least! stop and listen, No health care, no enviroment, no education, no future planning, no penisons plan funding, no drug prescriptions, no job security, no more reducing our Nationa debt….hmmm
do any of the no’s affect you, your family or your future? If they do not then have a good nights sleep, for you are one in a million.
Please people, do you not understand the the poorest Canadians barely have money for groceries and rent which is GST exempt? The ones saving big $$$ on consumption tax are buyers of fancy vehicles, plazma tvs, real estate investment property, lake cottages…. stuff that the poorest Canadians don’t even think about as they boil another pot of water for the macaroni that is their supper for their family.
The GST should have been used for infrastructure, child care and the environment.
On Wednesday, October 31, 2007, CBC’s investigative journalism program, The Fifth Estate, reported new revelations and details about former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and his attempt to cover up the $300,000 in cash he surreptitiously received shortly after his departure from government in the 1990s from the German-born businessman Karlheinz Schreiber.
See webpage link below:
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/unauthorizedchapter/
The RCMP had previously investigated for years, but due to legal threats from Mulroney and his lawyers and insufficient information at the time, the investigation was suspended. Mulroney’s legal fees ended up being reimbursed by the Canadian taxpayer.
Now, a justified and full public inquiry is being called for, but Harper wants to put a stop to it before it even begins.
Brian Mulroney is involved with the current CONServative regime and is a confidant and adviser to Stephen Harper.
This is yet another clear and astonishing example of Harper’s untrustworthiness, unaccountability and lack of ethics.
My constituents would like lower income tax, thank you. With the “new reduction†it will be back where it was two years ago – and after the Conservatives collected $2 billion extra. Shame. — Garth
By Marc on 10.31.07 10:17 pm
Hey Garth – the difference between the Liberal “rate” of 15% and the Conservative “rate” of 15.5% was 189$!
Did you kind of forget that in 2006 & 2007 that other tax measures were put in place to lower our income taxes – such as employment deduction (1000$), higher personal exemption, higher senior deduction, transit pass deduction, children sports deduction, school books deduction, etc. etc.
Don’t you think that the various deductions under the Conservatives neutralizes the Liberal’s “generous” rate reduction of 0.5%?
And btw, for wealthy individuals, the 2% GST reduction probably doesn’t mean a lot as they can afford the higher rate. For example, a millionaire, who buys a 100,000$ car – the 2,000$ that he would have paid under the Liberal plan is peanuts to him, as he probably spends that on an evening out.
But, to a senior living a low fixed income, a 30$ or 40$ monthly reduction in GST, means groceries for several meals.
Now please answer honestly and straight forwardly – will Stephane Dion and his Liberal dream team raise the GST from 5% to 7% should he get elected as our Prime Minister?
(1) Seniors on low fixed incomes do not pay much GST and any they do is refturned in quarterly rebates. (2) No. — Garth
Relax, will you, Ralph. You are going to get a hernia …
Such flippant remarks by Flim Flam Dim Jim Flaherty merely demonstrate his contempt for the SENIORS whose nesteggs he has destroyed. We await PAYBACK TIME and the PAYBACK will be swift and surgical.
But we also both agreed $6 billion a year could be better spent right now on a dramatic climate change strategy
posted by Garth Turner on 10.31.07 @ 10:00 pm |
To hold out the environment as the carrot is just expedient politicking.
That’s a lame arguement if I ever heard one. IF, and I say IF government were to ACTUALLY spend these funds on the environment then maybe. What should we do to ensure this though? Get a signed contract? We know governments record on contracts and promises don’t we.
You know, some of us have long memories. When I used to vote against Mulroney, I couldn’t understand how the people of Canada could be so easily taken in. When I voted for Cretien, I understood better how this happens. That being said, maybe it’s the Scootsman in me, maybe the Dutchman or the Welshman, or maybe it’s just that old English Bulldog. They are all known to be a tad stubborn, but I remember, and now that we have the internet, I’m going to do my best to see that you do to.
Anyone remember the beginning of income tax? The tax that was supposed to pay for WWII???? I guess we are still paying for that war too. Once you give politicians consent to tax you, you might as well lend the Crown jewels to Ali Baba and the 40 thieves for the purpose of an exhibition. How do you say, one O two O, gone O?
One more thing. Your $13 a month estimate on savings re: GST is more than a little dubious. Double that at least to represent 2%, the total GST reduction so far.
Now does this look like a case of buying our votes? In all likelihood, yes. Who pioneered that? Does it look like the cons worked diligently to create a paper surplus so as to be able to look good going into an election by handing out treats? (Halloween) Probably. Fixing the books to represent profits and losses isn’t a new concept. Even an amateur economist should understand that concept.
One question: did you abstain because you wanted to abstain or because the leader instructed you to abstain?
I thought that was exactly what my article was about. Did you read it? — Garth
Garth, No offense meant, and you can spin this whatever way the spin doctors are advising, the optics are horrible and in the time of the thirty second sound bite on the national news that is all that really matters. The LPC has given the CPC great sound bites for the next election concerning the LPC abstaining. You had better hope the CPC steps on its perverable penis with football cleats on or the LPC is in serious trouble come next election
By Zorpheous on 10.31.07 10:35 pm
Good morning Zorph & Garth, Zorph, what’s with the ’software’ problem? If these business people are using quality software, like I do in mine, a GST or any other tax adjustment takes me all of 1 minute. Doesn’t cost a thing. I would suggest that your friends get new accounting software immediately.
Garth, on the GST, what is wrong with Canadians having another $6 billion in their pockets of their own money? With this 1% reduction, the average family will have $676. extra every year in their own pockets. Double that for the 2%.
From what I see the income tax cuts go deeper than did the liberals. Not only do the lower income earners go to the 15%, but the basic personal amounts have been decreased. That’s a good thing right?
Remember this was not a ‘budget’. The environment and such will be dealt with in February. I think Dion will bring down the government right before budget time, don’t you? That would be when “Canadians would want an election”. On that subject, how does Mr. Dion know when we want to go to the polls? Does he have crystal balls? I think he should quit lying on that don’t you? Mr. Dion is only interested in the fortunes of the LPOC and will go when the polls tell him he has a chance at power.
Just my cheery thoughts for this fine morning.
Leasa
I have to say, I LOVE the GST cuts and I hope they continue. I realize they don’t add up to much month after month but it’s something and it’s a step closer to eliminating that lie of a tax (remember how it was supposed to be used to clear our debt).
I also laughed when I saw each party member say angrily that they don’t support the budget and oppose it as if Stephen Harper had just announced that he was going to be killing babies and clubbing seals. I don’t like Stephen Harper but man, I love tax cuts and now every opposition leader looks like a moron. Get with the program. I think people realize that the government just wastes a good chunk of the money they receive, so when they say more money is needed for the environment or health care I just roll my eyes. What is REALLY needed is for someone to go through those departments and cut away all the deadwood.
Everyone I’ve talked with does not want another election yet. To avoid that, the Liberals had to abstain, or vote for the motion. There was enough in the motion to appeal to many people–there should have been more income tax relief, but it was better than nothing. It was easy for the other parties to vote against the motion, knowing what the Liberals would do. They are safe, and sanctimonious. I’m not sure how I will vote (except I won’t vote for the Conservatives) but I would rather see an election happen when it is less likely the Conservatives will get back in. Many people are aware of, and wary of, the political games the Conservatives are playing.
Unless a motion comes forward that the Liberals believe is not good for Canadians, they should abstain, in my opinion. Other parties, including the Conservatives, have abstained in the past.
It must be tough, though, to be in your position, Garth. Hang in there.
I also took offense to Minister Flaherty’s unparliamentary direct comment to Mr. Goodale.
Does the Speaker of the House have any ability in controlling the very unparliamentary Conservative bench?
Tone it down, Ottawa tells top soldier
‘Marching orders’ issued over Hillier’s controversial remarks
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071101.whillier01/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
Mulroney cash payments dubbed ‘almost unbelievable’
Rules were stringent, former Mountie says
GREG MCARTHUR
From Thursday’s Globe and Mail
November 1, 2007 at 4:28 AM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071101.wcash01/BNStory/National/home
Harper’s team dumps city-friendly candidate
Susan Delacourt
Ottawa Bureau
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/272579
Garth;
I want to know if you agree with this abstaining tactic?
I agreed with it on yesterday’s vote, for the reasons I explained. — Garth
Garth says –
“The GST cut will do virtually nothing for lower-income Canadians.”
Typical inconsiderate liberal comment.
Remember what happened to Scott Reid after his stupid beer and popcorn comment, or does that go to far back for liberals to remember ??
Have you never heard the expression – “every little bit helps”, or what about, “take small steps.”
Liberals today are just full of crap. They are so full of hate that they can hardly function.
It’s funny, now the liberals are fast becoming the party with “hidden agendas.”
There is no inconsideration about my statement, since lower-income people spend most of their incomes on essentials which are GST-exempt. I suggest you acquaint yourself wit the facts. Might be an enjoyable new experience for you. — Garth
Tell the voter he doesn’t want an election..he doesn’t want an election, tell the voter he needs an election…the voter wants an election…tell Dion to shut up until he can show some savvy and wisdom. Dictatorships don’t want elections, democracies need them. Dion should have GONE on the throne speech. Maybe he prefers death by a thousand cuts…the HOC is no place for boy scouts and class presidents. The situation with the Liberals now is Die-on, Die-on, Di-on…save your compassion for stray animals and oppose, oppose or let Jack and Duceppe do it for you.
Beg to rejoin the Harper Reformers? Forget it. Stephen Harper laughs to folks like you, who wish to bring politics back closer to the people. He is the antithesis of that. — Garth
Don’t you mean “laughs at?”
Who’s in charge of this government, the PM or the CPC National Party. The PM promised grassroots democracy. Now the national party turns down two candidates, who have fairly won their riding nominations, because they spoke out about the issues in their ridings not sticking to party script, or “they didn’t knock on enough doors” in the last election.
Well VanKesteren nor his supporters knocked on mine!
Another promise broken, and this one goes to the essence of the CPC, rotten to the core.
That’s why they need to be removed from office, not IT flip-flops, not crime bills, not GST cuts vs income tax cuts, not a lack of a meaningful environment plan. These are all symptoms of the deeper desease within the CPC.
“But there is that big silent Harper majority hidden out there somewhere”
Wait a minute, we just had holloween it couldn’t already be April fools?
64 percent never wanted Harpo last time, and the latest poll shows that 18 months later that figure has grown to 67 percent.
I think I hear the sound of a fat lady warming up the vocal chords, she is getting ready to sing. Garth, get ready to turn out the lights.
Which one are you today?
Jean
Big L Man
William Laidlaw
Helen
fishbank
Randy
Brent L.
Rob
Mitch
pushnet
Charles Manson
gino zaffino
Harrison
ron
biff
Ross
R. Moore
Trevor Johnson, and more? — Garth
“The Conservative party that I’m from doesn’t remove a duly nominated candidate. It’s supposed to be based on grassroots principles,” Barr said. ”
That says it all! This present COnservative party is nothing like the PC party my parents worked so hard for since the ’50’s. Now my Dad is in Long Term Care, where the # of diaper changes he gets in a day are limited to 3, and even if we pay for more, there isn’t enough staff to give him more than 15 minutes a day of their time.
Does the liberal party have anything in their platform to address the shortcomings in care for senior citizens? I hope so. Because as certain as death and taxes are, another certainty for many of us is that we will be in Long Term Care a long time.
The mini-budget is short-sighted, and doesn’t address some of the real needs in our communities–care for the elderly, daycare spaces for children, relief for the poor. But, hey, I might save $400.00 per year, which I can put into an RSP–I guess I better!
By Jean on 11.01.07 12:20 am
Congrats. You have now achieved DumbleDork status too. You’ve been OUTED!
BTW, who has the Numero Uno spot as the CPC’s Public Enemy at the Death Star? LMAO!
You dishonest little cowards have dug your own grave. What a perfect reality on All Hallow’s Day!
I see Harper and the Empire cannot handle a qualified candidate like Mark Warner simply because he wants to actually deal with real problems like urban life, environment, etc.
Yes, you are everything Canadian’s have come to expect from a bunch of twisted Mental Midgets of narcissistic funnymentalism.
Oh yes, Miss Bubbles and Cheery Leasa who goes on the Blogging Tories sites that bash and trash Liberals and agrees with them and congratulates them – now, she’s really an opinion to trust NOT.
Leasa – experts say the 1% will put about $150. in taxpayer pockets per year – certainly does nothing for me like a really good income tax break – one lump sum that you can really do something with. Also, when the last cut came in many retailers upped their prices (especially coffee outlets) so you really and truly didn’t get anything.
I understand the HofC will be off for a week next week – then closed for the Xmas season about early to middle December until around mid-January – so why bother dealing with an Xmas election? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Would that loss of credibility extend to a Conservative operative who has posted on this site 190 times over the past few months using the following handles:
Jean
Big L Man
William Laidlaw
Helen
fishbank
Randy
Brent L.
Rob
Mitch
pushnet
Charles Manson
gino zaffino
Harrison
ron
biff
Ross
R. Moore
Trevor Johnson, and more? — Garth
Conservative Operative?, Conservative Operative? – WRONG!
Why do you find it necessary to have 20 false identities on this blog? What are you hiding? — Garth
Does the Speaker of the House have any ability in controlling the very unparliamentary Conservative bench?
By Catherine on 11.01.07 7:47 am
It would appear NOT, based on the continued conduct by MP’s. The Speaker is a tradition, not a functional entity in my opinion. They need Arnold as a Kindergarten Cop.
I think installing individual TASER’s to each MP’s desk might be a worthwhile expenditure! LOL
Fostering opportunity and expanding services takes government intervention and spending, not a lower GST. — Garth
By jim on 10.31.07 11:53 pm
So you are advocating more government spending. I thought it was the overspending that caused high inflation, high interest rates, high dollar value.
Do you see the problem Garth? You libs have no answer. Lower taxes only help the rich not the poor. Governement spending hurts the economy. Must help the poor by government spending.
I’m getting dizzy trying to keep up on that merry go round.
Of course, I did not say that. It’s all about choices. Spend $12 billion on a GST cut that almost everyone at my pubic meetings said they do not really notice, or fix some of society’s ills that plague us all. Not more spending, but a balanced use of existing revenues. — Garth
By slg on 11.01.07 8:24 am
Yes, Garth and I had some confusion on the numbers on another thread. Big deal. Yes, I am a basically happy person, and in real life I am quite cheery. I hold no hatred in my heart of any person.
Also, SLG, do you think if I was trying to ‘fool’ anyone I’d post on differing blogs with the name ‘Leasa’? Sure, I have a bit of fun with some liberals, here and elsewhere…I am a Conservative supporter! You expect different?
Okay, sweetie, duty calls. Catch ya later. (hugs) Leasa
Garth;
Refresh my memory. Regarding the income trust issue, we know where the Conservatives and Liberals stand.
Where did the NDP and Bloc stand?
The NDP supports taxing trusts. The Bloc waffles. — Garth
Garth…I enjoy(usually) the variety of comments on your blog, even the trolls on most occasions, but I must say I’m getting particularilly annoyed with the snarky Leasa.I know,I know,just ignore her.
What is REALLY needed is for someone to go through those departments and cut away all the deadwood.
By Dan on 11.01.07 7:36 am
Hear ye! Hear he! Dan for Prime Minister came the call from the masses!
Bring on the Grim Reaper!
I got some of the coldest stares I had ever seen.
By Zorpheous on 10.31.07 10:35 pm
Did you ever tell Lawyer jokes in a courtroom?? I have….
I have decided that I am going to become a born again Canadian CON. I have become increasingly frustrated with the campaign to defend income trusts. I have now decided to join the Conservative Party and bash retired or soon to be retired Canadians who bought or continued to hold income trusts as the result of the “Stand Up For Canada” Conservative Election Platform.
I shall now become a persona grata in the CON fold. I shall from now on take the point of view of the CONs and extol the virtue of not questioning authority, accepting everything coming out of the PMOs office as an incremental step to the rapture. I shall start a weblog entitled: “Psychotic in the Great White North!”
I have had some very good tutors in this. I have corresponded endlessly with obsessed conservatives who would rather smash retired seniors’ savings than admit their leader is a power hungry dictator. I have seen the light! I now understand!
I pledge my full allegiance to the Harper Regime and shall now take on the task of bashing and ridiculing seniors who dare to complain that their retirement income and savings have been vapourized! I shall rant on endlessly on the virtues of doing this. As a matter of fact, the CONs should start research funding in creating a “back to G-d” execution chamber like the one in “Logan’s Run.” When retired Canadians can’t take being bankrupted by our fearless leader, they can “go back to G-d” and solve their problems!
I have turned over a new leaf, and I shall now have an alter ego! That of a PSYCHOCON.
I don’t need to make things up, all I need to do is present things that CONs have said to me.
Opposition parties unite to fight big-box daycare
Nov 01, 2007 04:30 AM
Tonda MacCharles
ottawa bureau
http://www.thestar.com/article/272572
Is this the only answer the cons have for everything?
Yesterday, a government spokesperson said Human Resources and Social Development Minister Monte Solberg was unavailable for comment. But in the Commons, Solberg said the government is “working co-operatively” with provinces on child care and is giving parents the $100-a-month taxable childcare benefit.
“The Liberals would take that away. The leader of the Liberal party said he would take that away. That speaks volumes about his lack of faith in the ability of parents to raise their own children.”
Calling all Reformers!
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=d026f935-ffb2-40b7-ac82-e88a50fd8bf4
Leasa cut out the sweetie, nautious stuff – it’s oh so phony. I’m a happy person too – but I don’t need the phony huggsy crap – too much statement of pretend niceness by you. I didn’t say you hid your name – but your comments on the other trash blogs certainly point you aren’t exactly miss nice of the year.
Garth – your list includes Biff – he’s been doing this all over the blogosphere and has been deleted by many – he/she is just trying to intimidate people – what an idiot.
Price of oil up and now gold – and some US financial punidits are worried about inflation/recession – where’s this going to end?
On balance, the mini-budget is a grisly compromise.
The Conservatives have been coming up with ’surprise’ supluses left right and centre, something they said they wouldn’t do.
And they’ve been doing it.
I’ll remind everybody that those surpluses disappear extremely quickly in the face of a recession. We don’t want to be in a situation where we have to raise taxes in the future.
Ie. All tax cuts must be sustainable.
I guess they don’t remember Expo’s leaving.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071031/habs_language_071031/20071031?hub=Politics
“I abstained with balls.” – Garth
First, I would not expect that kind of phrasing from my MP; someone who spends so much of his professional life speaking for a living should be able to communicate his views in a less vulgar manner.
Second, is there any chance the Liberal Party of Canada will vote on anything in this or the next session of Parilament? Is it really just too cold in the House of Commons – so much so that you Liberals all need to keep your hands warm by sitting on them? Maybe you could wake up Canadians – or at least those in your riding – when you and your party ARE ready to vote. Or, maybe you are waiting for Canadians to wake you up?
Third, did Dion REALLY SAY that he would raise the GST? Why then did he not vote down the move to lower it another percentage point?
Do tell.
All already asked and answered. As for your linguistic sensitivity, have you been outdoors lately? — Garth
I dunno, call me dumb, but it seems to me that polls showing that ‘no one wants an election’ mean that those polled are happy with the current gov. That being the case, they probably don’t pay much attention to what’s happening to their country, and half don’t bother to vote anyway. So the roughly 50% of eligible voters who do bother to cast their ballot would likely do so to change the gov. That certainly seemed to be a major reason for the first CPC minority – ‘time for a change’. No?
Off topic completely. I just watched the lead story on CBC about a Canadian battleship heading off for a six month tour of the Persian Gulf as part of Canada’s commitment to Operation Enduring Freedom. Isn’t that Dubya’s failing effort in Iraq? Why would we be part of that particular fiasco?
Fostering opportunity and expanding services takes government intervention and spending, not a lower GST. — Garth
By jim on 10.31.07 11:53 pm
Bah Humbug! This hour has 22 installs. First I say cut taxes, then I say no, then I say cut, then I say no….Oye!
Look at your list of GST taxables and tell me that the poor are compensated for this tax that the PC’s gave us and the Liberals so vehemently opposed.
Wise old Indian said, “White man speak with forked tongue”.
Inflation heads up – China raises fuel price by 10%
Nation Child Care vs giving money for beer and popcorn…..I thought Paul Martine fell for the trap and should have attacked, you betcha money not only went for beer and popcorn but lotto tickests as well.
Think, where would Canadians be if our goverment gave everyone money to invest on their own instead of having CCP & OAS and yes private health care, just think about Income Trust? case closed!
Garth, on the GST, what is wrong with Canadians having another $6 billion in their pockets of their own money? With this 1% reduction, the average family will have $676. extra every year in their own pockets. Double that for the 2%. – By Leasa on 11.01.07 7:36 am
So, to save $676 due to the 1% GST cut, the average family would have to spend $67,600 on goods and services on which GST is charged.
Leasa do you know what the average family income is?
Straight from Statscan (2005 is probably their latest numbers, factor in 3% pay increases if you like, doesn’t make much difference)..the average is $64,800. (Two earners, $74,000)
So how do they pay for food, mortgage and all the other non GST’d essentials?
You must have attended the same school as Mr. Flaherty.
“Of course, I did not say that. It’s all about choices. Spend $12 billion on a GST cut that almost everyone at my pubic meetings said they do not really notice, or fix some of society’s ills that plague us all. Not more spending, but a balanced use of existing revenues. — Garth”
Hey Garth, here are a few “choices? that could be made with the $12 B that’s getting funnelled to the few instead of being shared into the common wealth.
- Set up a free wireless Internet network across the country for every Canadian (leveraging the ones that exist in some provinces, already)
- Provide a free post secondary education to Canadians who agree to spend their first two years after graduation working in a remote Canadian centre or for a non-profit or community organization
- Develop a national human security network that integrates the complex array of social, environmental and military concerns affecting us now and into the future
- Instigate a fight against poverty that guarantees child care assistance to low-income families, promotes early education for all, connects disadvantaged and disconnected youth with school and work, reduces the high costs of being poor, increases access to financial services and ensures low-wage worker equity in the EI system
- Fund a major energy and environmental initiative that also generates economic growth and jobs across the industrial spectrum, from manufacturing and construction to services
- Create a federal Department of Internet technology
- Put in place a national “living wage” that seeks not only to minimize suffering, but also to promote fulfillment, benefit communities and make businesses healthier
- Develop an early childhood education initiative that bridges into the public primary and elementary systems
- Reinvigorate investment in Canada’s public health care system that shifts liability away from families and towards corporations, activities, etc that endanger health
- Call for a moratorium on all illegal immigrants and allow them to work in the public economy as Canadians
- Increase the public financing of elections and reduce their private financing
- Fasttrack the recognition of foreign professionals’ credentials and support the introduction of foreign professionals into the Canadian workforce
- Introduce capital improvements to Canada’s public transit systems, including high speed rail in every major urban centre and between centres where distance is less than 1000 kms
- Make a national investment in public infrastructure that allows for new ideas, promotes livable communities and partners government with the private sector
Garth, I strongly believe that choices like these should define the public narrative, not barren proposals like taxcuts. Is there no way the Liberals could change the channel?
Canadians will lose more under Mr. Harper’s conservative policies than they will ever gain through taxcuts.
-R
How dare he disobey the PMO!
Harper’s team dumps city-friendly candidate
November 01, 2007
Susan Delacourt
Ottawa Bureau
OTTAWA – The federal Conservatives have ousted their candidate for Toronto Centre, 43-year-old international-trade lawyer Mark Warner, and he says it’s because he wanted to play up urban and social issues that are at odds with the master Conservative campaign strategy.
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/272579
Does the liberal party have anything in their platform to address the shortcomings in care for senior citizens? I hope so. Because as certain as death and taxes are, another certainty for many of us is that we will be in Long Term Care a long time.
The mini-budget is short-sighted, and doesn’t address some of the real needs in our communities–care for the elderly, daycare spaces for children, relief for the poor. But, hey, I might save $400.00 per year, which I can put into an RSP–I guess I better!
By Lana on 11.01.07 8:21 am
Lana you better complain to the province which is in charge of Care for Seniors. Oh by the way they are the Liberals that took 2.5 billion dollars in a health premium that has not improved a thing. Get your facts straight before you post.
All already asked and answered. As for your linguistic sensitivity, have you been outdoors lately? — Garth
Yep, I have been outside. Most reasonable people choose more appropriate words to express themselves. That kind of phrasing would not be acceptable in business, in universities…or even in primary school. In primary school, students are taught to more thoughtful in their selection of words. Why should a “…balls” statement be acceptable when uttered by my elected representative?
I guess it is in the Liberal tradition though – what with PET giving reporters the finger and all.
I was far more profane as a Conservative. — Garth
There is no inconsideration about my statement, since lower-income people spend most of their incomes on essentials which are GST-exempt. I suggest you acquaint yourself wit the facts. Might be an enjoyable new experience for you. — Garth
By Haltonjohn on 11.01.07 8:10 am
Exemptions are rent and most groceries. Essential items that are GST taxable include: utilities, telephone, gasoline, clothing, auto insurance. Other non essential taxable items that lower income people may enjoy include: cable TV, cigarettes, alcohol, snack food.
There indeed is a substantial benefit for low income Canadians with a GST cut.
Saving a few hundred dollars a year is nothing to the Garth Turners of the world. He wouldn’t even notice it. He takes 150 grand from tax payers a year in opposition and doesn’t even have to oppose.
One living from pay cheque to pay cheque, however, would certainly appreciate an extra 25 bucks a month.
Leasa cut out the sweetie, nautious stuff – it’s oh so phony. I’m a happy person too – but I don’t need the phony huggsy crap – too much statement of pretend niceness by you.
By slg on 11.01.07 9:19 am
It’s called passive-aggressive – a favourite tactic of neocons.
Zorph, what’s with the ’software’ problem? If these business people are using quality software, like I do in mine, a GST or any other tax adjustment takes me all of 1 minute. Doesn’t cost a thing. I would suggest that your friends get new accounting software immediately.
Leasa,
These are not off the self software packages, these are HUGE DB SQL software system that are unique to large corporation that are intgraded accounting, inventory, vendor inventory management, storage, shipping systems that are all integraded. One does not simply flip a switch or change one variable.
These are not accpac or quicken, there is no off the shelf solution, and right now, thousands of dba’s are scrambling trying to figure out they get the changes done and tested (oh yes, you need to test these first) in 62 days.
Just because you can buy off the self, don’t assume your business solution will work everyone else.
What is evident from the comments of the government supporters is that they are from an extremly affluent segment of the population. It is difficult to relate to them for that reason. Here are two examples.
“But, to a senior living a low fixed income, a 30$ or 40$ monthly reduction in GST, means groceries for several meals.”
By Catherine on 11.01.07 4:34 am
How many seniors can afford to spend $1500 to $2000 a month on taxable goods (assuming you are referring to the overall 2 per cent reduction, if not it would be $3000 to $4000)? You obviously have a very different concept of what constitutes a low fixed income than the most other Canadians. Even for the $1500 level you are assuming that a person has $18,000 of after tax income to spend on taxable goods (not food or housing). The average after tax income for a single elderly female is $23,200 and male is $27,000. These are “average” incomes not those for a low income senior.
“With this 1% reduction, the average family will have $676. extra every year in their own pockets. Double that for the 2%.”
By Leasa on 11.01.07 7:36 am
Check your figures. It would mean that the family referred to would spend $67,600 per year on taxable goods. The average after tax income of all families is around $64, 800. The average Canadian family would not have even close to $67,600 to spend on non-taxable goods and services since a large chunk of that amount would go to food and housing.
For your edification and as a further goad to look beyond one’s nose at the bigger picture, may I present:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18641.htm
And Leasa, I note that the longer you visit this blog, the closer you come to slipping into rational skepticism of all things ‘given’. I shall at some point in future share with you my experiences in growing locally and organically and the market responses to that. Needless to say, I have a capital loss that will take many years to recover.
And further to my preceding offering:
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/10/09/bring-on-the-recession/
Actually, yesterday’s abstention was entirely justified. Why go into an election on your opponent’s framing issue?
Better to bring down the government on an issue of TRUST or the environment or something palatable.
But you guys can’t abstain again. I don’t think Dion could recover from that.
Jean
Big L Man
William Laidlaw
Helen
fishbank
Randy
Brent L.
Rob
Mitch
pushnet
Charles Manson
gino zaffino
Harrison
ron
biff
Ross
R. Moore
Trevor Johnson, and more? — Garth
TROLL BUSTING, LOL. I just love watching the hammer fall.
Canadians will lose more under Mr. Harper’s conservative policies than they will ever gain through taxcuts.
-R
By Rob Wiebe on 11.01.07 9:53 am
I enjoyed your post immensely. It was full of great ideas. Thanks!
USA Feds injected $41 Bbbbilion in “temporary” reserves yesterday – highest since 911
paper prestidigitation for the levitation nation…throw another log on the fire
Lana you better complain to the province which is in charge of Care for Seniors. Oh by the way they are the Liberals that took 2.5 billion dollars in a health premium that has not improved a thing. Get your facts straight before you post. Rob
Rob, I know it is the province which is responsible for seniors’ care. When Harris made all those cuts to programs,including seniors’ care, he blamed it on the federal government (i.e. cuts in transfer payments). However, I admit I don’t know everything…I do know that all parties play the blame game..blame the other guy, so it can become very confusing. Thanks for straightening me out.
“I abstained with balls.” –Garth.
I find this statement somewhat sexist. What about the Liberal women MPs who abstained?
CBC News has learned that Ottawa-Vanier Liberal MP Mauril Bélanger wanted to stand up and vote against the economic statement yesterday.
But Bélanger was informed that he would be expelled from the Liberal caucus if he voted against the motion instead of abstaining, sources told CBC News.
Although Bélanger was in the House for question period, he was not present for the vote.
I hope it is not the case, but this is beginning to give the appearance of bully tactics to keep the Liberal MPs in line. It seems that they are being muzzled, silenced and threatened if they dare go with their conscience against party policy.
“Beg to rejoin the Harper Reformers?” –Garth.
Garth, if we join Harper with the Reformers, then we cannot connect Harper with Mulroney, as the Reformers were even more anti-Mulroney than the Liberals were.
I have never, ever voted Reform or Canadian Alliance. I myself voted for Brian Mulroney, and have seen him as a “Progressive” Conservative, even as Garth and Bill Casey still like to identify themselves as “Progressive” Conservative, as does Ed Brooks and others right here on this blog.
Every time I see a politician scandal-mongering, or looking for dirt in others, I hold my breath, because I know that according to the law of sowing and reaping, that same scandal that we accuse in others is also there in us, potentially if not in outward behaviour.
Scandal and deceit is a human problem, that no one political party, or class, or nation has a corner on, or is entirely free of.
It would be better to admit our own mistakes, and to show compassion on others rather than to always blame others and seek to justify ourselves as if we are at least not “as bad.” We have a human problem here, and if we can just start to get honest about it, we would be a lot closer to a solution, and to see people working together for the common good, not simply for the good of one political party.
As fellow-Canadians, our interests are inter-connected and inter-twined. We need one another.
By C. B. Innes on 11.01.07 10:18 am
As I’ve said C.B., Garth and I had some confusion on the numbers. We clarified it on another thread.
SLG & Ann, I’m sorry if my being a nice person bothers you so much. I just don’t hate you. Sorry.
Rob: Lana is very right in her assessment of our nursing homes. I worked in the nursing department of a government run nursing home for 10 years, about 16 years ago. It was the same sad story then as it is now. Really, don’t get me started on this one. Lana needs to start with her provincial government as this is their responsibility. Part of the on-going problem is that hospitals are saving money by moving long term care into N. Homes by the droves. Long term care in a hospital has a much better staff to patient ratio than does a N. Home. N. Home staff are set up to care for elderly that require less care and less expense. In other words, they are supposed to be up and about and able to dress themselves. Not so today. 16 years ago we had a ratio of 1 staff per 12 residents. During my decade, the hospitals purged themselves of the costly long term care patients and nursing home started accepting people who could not walk or even feed themselves and had severe chronic illness. There is only one registered nurse per 40 residents on duty, one per 80 people during the night. At night there is only one health care worker per 20 people.
Imagine getting 12 total care people up, washed, toileted, dressed in one hour. There you have the problem. Oh, that one person must also make 12 beds and do her bath list, clean the utility room, put away their laundry, test urine, take vitals and care for any dying person on her list of people.
That’s the way it was 16 years ago. I hear it’s not any better today. I have read recently, that some families are actually hiring their own support staff person for a few hours a day to make sure their parent gets the care they need. Isn’t that private health care?
So, yes, Lana has great justified cause for concern. Leasa
By persona sine ingenio on 11.01.07 10:33 am
On organics, I hear the cheaters do quite well. For true organics, forget it. Consumers are never going to pay enough to compensate leaving 50% and up of your crop in the field. They want it cheap and it must look perfect. If you’ve been this route you know what I mean. Leasa
Love the debate over ‘averages’.
The ‘average’ family does not exist. The ‘median’ family does.
I’d love to see a quintile by quintile breakdown, with their respective medians, reported out for each province in confederation – and how much the GST would save.
Of course, for such an analysis, we would need a comprehensive breakdown of household spending.
Since nobody has done such an analysis, all the figures over the GST being bandied about are fairly moot. I don’t put any validity at all in those estimates.
For those of you who are still mad at me about the numbers I brought forward the post that solved the confusion:
I misspoke. Make that $13 a month. — Garth
By Leasa on 10.31.07 7:38 pm
I am curious, where do they get this number from? Wouldn’t it be different for most folks? For example, two of my employees are buying cars very soon. Depending on what they buy, with the 2% they will be saving anywhere from $300 – $500. all at once.
Even so, with the revised number, granted not as good, with the 2%, the average family saves $312. per year, take that and put it in an education fund with the government’s share, interest…it’s still pretty good.
Garth, with all taxes combined from all levels of government…Canadians work From January 1st to until into June to just pay taxes. Any reduction anywhere is a good thing. Leasa
I believe Mr. Flaherty offered this number. — Garth
By Leasa on 11.01.07 8:12 am
Gotta run…play nice! Leasa
Garth, I am sorry for having to post multiple times here, but just one more to Zorph. Zorph, you are right, I wasn’t thinking about the other businesses I plug into. I was thinking about my own accounting software. Yes, I can see your point. Leasa
= = FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE = =
RED TORY FIRED FROM DOWNTOWN TORONTO ELECTORAL RACE
“Federal Conservative Party has no interest in engaging with urban Canada”
TORONTO — October 31, 2007 – Today, after ten months of campaigning, Mark Warner, the Federal Conservative Candidate for Toronto Centre… was removed by the Party’s National Campaign Manager, Doug Finley, and its National Council President Don Plett…
“I joined the Party when Brian Mulroney was the strongest voice for Nelson Mandela’s freedom. Unfortunately, I have found that the Conservative Party today, by its actions, is not the inclusive Party that I once believed in. The Conservative Party today cynically pays “lip service” to diversity and outreach to minority communities in Canada.”
For the Mr. Warner’s FULL PRESS RELEASE go to http://www.markwarner.ca
(Unless Harper YANKS it)
“Lip service”, hmmmmmmm.
And from Mr. Warner, a long time Progressive Conservative, now NEW Conservative 10 month insider. Hmmmmmm.
I guess all these reparations Harper has been posing for the cameras for have just been ‘minority community‘ VOTE BUYING exercises.
Does Harper have NO ETHICS??? It just makes me wonder why he has been cozying up to the Dalai Lama?
Your days are numbered Stephen Harper.
Tick, tick, tick…
Love the debate over ‘averages’.
The ‘average’ family does not exist. The ‘median’ family does.
I’d love to see a quintile by quintile breakdown, with their respective medians, reported out for each province in confederation – and how much the GST would save.
Of course, for such an analysis, we would need a comprehensive breakdown of household spending.
Since nobody has done such an analysis, all the figures over the GST being bandied about are fairly moot. I don’t put any validity at all in those estimates.
By LoH_Numa on 11.01.07 11:06 am
It is easy to be critical when you don’t bother to supply any data yourself.
I have been searching for up-to-date median figures without any success for some time. The latest I have been able to find for Canada is 1999.
The spread between the average and median income provide a good clue as to the trend of inequality.
Where are the Liberal alternative strategies????? Doesn’t the Party have to define themselves as the balanced, middle-governing Party instead of a “wait and see†attitude? I think many Canadians are getting tired of waiting for this, and want an Opposition in Parliament. What think ye?
By Riverview on 11.01.07 12:14 am
I too want an opposition in Parliament but, unfortunately, Stevie has declared that any opposition will be considered a confidence vote. How utterly arrogant of a minority govt. I’ve never seen one this totally arrogant in my life.
I’m willing to be patient and let the Libs choose their battle. The other opposition parties are laughable. They know they have no hope in hell of ever forming a govt. so try to make cheap political points, but they are the ones who killed Child Care, the Kelowna Accord, etc.
BTW, I was pleasantly surprised to learn yesterday that 3 people I know, who I thought might support the Harpocrits in the next election, have said no way.
Why should the Libs, at this point, show their full deck. Steve has already stolen so many of their policies and even gave back the .5% to the lowest taxpayers, which helped him pay for his 1st 1% GST cut. The cons are itching for an election; they’ve just denounced 2 cons who were their local association.
Who originally said PATIENCE is a virtue.
Seen as the motion passed without your votes, why did you not just vote for the motion? Can’t wait for the Liberal candidate to come to my door when the writ is dropped. I will tell him/her that I intend to support the Liberal buy abstaining. After all I do get influenced by the examples set by their members.
You should be in the worm business. — Garth
Is this really true?
CANADA PENSION – A Must Read : Only in Canada .
Do not apply for your old age pension…
Apply to be a refugee. It is interesting that the federal
government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of
$1,890.00 and each can get an additional $580.00 in social assistance
for a total of $2,470.00.
This compares very well to a single pensioner who, after contributing to
the growth and development of Canada for 40 or 50 years,
can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension and
Guaranteed Income Supplement.
Maybe our pensioners should apply as refugees!
Let’s send this thought to as many Canadians as we can and maybe we can
get the refugees cut back to $1,012.00 and the pensioners up to $2,470.00,
so they can e njoy the money they were forced to submit to the
Canadian government for those 40 to 50 years.
For the 1,000th time, this is Internet junk. There is no monthly refugee allowance. Shame on everyone who perpetrates this intolerant and ignorant message. — Garth
I shall at some point in future share with you my experiences in growing locally and organically and the market responses to that. Needless to say, I have a capital loss that will take many years to recover.
By persona sine ingenio on 11.01.07 10:33 am
They want it cheap and it must look perfect. If you’ve been this route you know what I mean. Leasa
By Leasa on 11.01.07 11:02 am
Sad thing is, you are both right. The major problems here are consumer expectations and convenience, cheap imports and that the grocery supply chain is in the hands of a very few who are completely profit driven and don’t give local producers a decent chance if any.
We have a perfect example here in the maritimes with the only locally owned Beef packing plant left, Atlantic Beef Producer Co-operative, recently built in PEI. Neither Loblaws or Sobeys, the only players in the game, will put their product in the stores. They prefer to buy from Cargill and Maple Leaf. For those of you who don’t know, Cargill is a US giant that has bought and bought and built in Canada in recent years and Maple Leaf now belongs to McCains who also acquired Schneiders and just about everything else that Cargill doesn’t have.
Zorph, you are right, I wasn’t thinking about the other businesses I plug into. I was thinking about my own accounting software. Yes, I can see your point. Leasa
By Leasa on 11.01.07 11:11 am
Not a problem Leasa, many times people don’t know abou the problems that can exist for business unless they have direct involvement or experience with it.
The people I was meeting with were trying to heads rapped around the issues. They were not computer geeks or accountants, but managers and directors who want to know some basic background so that they know who/departments they would have to “tap” to solve this problem. I certainly do not understand the entire magnitude of the challange, but 61 days is a tight time line.
A few of my dba and programmer friends have disappeared this week,… LOL, I guess I’ll see them again in January
“So, yes, Lana has great justified cause for concern. Leasa”
Hey Leasa, I am not diminishing her concern. I am only saying that I am sick and tired of people blaming the Federal Government for things that are not in their jurisdiction such as Health, Eduaction and Long Term Care. In this particular instance I am tired of people blaming the Conservatives when a Liberal government is gouging us of so much money with the Health premium with no improvements whatsoever, and Ontarians as sheep as we are keep electing McGuinty. Thats all.
Japan orders navy ships home from Afghan mission – fears trade reprecussions
I’ve never seen one this totally arrogant in my life.
By KPN on 11.01.07 11:48 am
I agree, ignoring the result of a non-confidence vote is mush more democratic.
The Liberal Party is now like that old golf joke where Harry dies on the 9′th tee. For the rest of the game it was..hit the ball, drag Harry, hit the ball, drag Harry.
The Libs died three votes ago….abstain, drag Dion, abstain, drag Dion
Did you kind of forget that in 2006 & 2007 that other tax measures were put in place to lower our income taxes – such as employment deduction (1000$), higher personal exemption, higher senior deduction, transit pass deduction, children sports deduction, school books deduction, etc. etc.
Don’t you think that the various deductions under the Conservatives neutralizes the Liberal’s “generous†rate reduction of 0.5%?
And btw, for wealthy individuals, the 2% GST reduction probably doesn’t mean a lot as they can afford the higher rate. For example, a millionaire, who buys a 100,000$ car – the 2,000$ that he would have paid under the Liberal plan is peanuts to him, as he probably spends that on an evening out.
But, to a senior living a low fixed income, a 30$ or 40$ monthly reduction in GST, means groceries for several meals.
Surprise, surprise… a majority cannot take advantage of the employment deduction (1000$), higher personal exemption, higher senior deduction, transit pass deduction, children sports deduction, school books deduction,that the CRAPPERS replaced the genuine Paul Martin tax cuts with. So no Martins 1/2 percent tax deduction and additional $500 in personal exemptions that Harper canceled meant that a majority paid more in 2006 than in 2005.
And are you serious when you say a senior can save $30 to $40 in GST in monthly deductions? Do you know that they would have to spend $15,000 to $20,000 PER MONTH to realize this!!!!
Catherine, get the PMO to give you sensible talking points that are not bordering on the ridiculous.
Lana said:
“However, I admit I don’t know everything…I do know that all parties play the blame game..blame the other guy, so it can become very confusing. Thanks for straightening me out.”
I respectfully say to you, and I don’t think that Garth or anybody can refute that it was the Liberals during Chretien that cut the transfer payments to the provinces. For many years the provinces kept asking Chretien to increase the transfer payments to no avail. The Liberals cut the funding to the military as well, so deep in fact that Canada could not even transport their own troops sometimes and had to get help from the US to do that. In addition, I remember reading at the beginning of the deployment to Afghanistan that Canadian troops did not even had the right uniform to blend in with the terrain and had to wear chawls as camouflage so they would not be targeted so easily. The only thing I am saying to you that Chretien or Harris do not have anything to do with the current situation, blame McGuinty he is taxing us with this health premium racking about 2.5 billion every year , has surpluses galore and the situation in nursing homes is as you witness it every day. Contact your member of provincial parliament and let him/her know what yoy feel and think.
I agree. The Liberal Team did the right thing. I will enjoy the cuts and I will vote Liberal in the next election. This is going to make a huge liberal difference come income tax time.
That remark that Flaherty thought was so funny and his team applauded, was disgusting and childish. ‘You’re going to get a hernia Ralph Goodale’, gee, that was an arogant statement in such an inappropriate environment.
Wal-mart to sell books, magazines, greeting cards and gift wrap at U.S. list prices.
Cars to follow?
Mr.Turner,
I think you made a mistake. Again.
These crooks are very crafty at confusing people, I admit.
They got you confused again, same as they did when they packaged the income trust thievery with income splitting.
And you essentially voted for the thievery…
Voting against these crooks every time one has the opportunity is a matter of principle.
Once in a while the crooks might do or say something that would appear to make sense. But the reasons behind it will be as dirty as their crooked minds.
You’ll have to work hard to make us forgive and forget this new mistake of yours, same as you did with the income trust issue.
And many of us will likely do so, cuz’ we know ultimately you’re an honest man.
I maintain, Dion is done. The liberals should look for another leader. Not Ignatieff, not Rae. Maybe the young Trudeau, maybe somebody else. If Dion has any brains, he should make this easy and help out.
This country is looking for a leader of principle. There is no abstaining in principles.
Let’s start working in that direction and let’s waste less time on replying to the trolls populating this blog. Certainly one that has 20 identities does not deserve any attention whatsoever.
wish this would format better but here goes…
that calculator is garbage.
revenues 2004 from Cansim Table 385-0001
personal income 2004from Cansim Table 202-0404
(millions)
total revenues all levels of government = $468,040
less >
Corporation income taxes = $38,908
Mining and logging taxes = $215
Taxes on payments to non-residents = $4,156
Payroll taxes = $8,624
Contributions to social security plans = $31,290
Sales of goods and services = $39,055
Investment income = $36,284
Other revenue from own sources = $9,460
specified total = $167,992
total revenue less specified = $300,048
personal income 2004 = $806,798
total less specifified % of personal income = %37.19%
more like the middle of April. and that’s just the averages. don’t forget the calculator people like to complain how the top decile carries 3 times the load.
We’re already very well placed in the OECD reduce-a-thon. No need to panic.
or
more specifically
make a fuss about nothing.
I’ll never understand this GST cut. You don’t save money by spending money — unless of course it’s on items you’re ALWAYS buying.
Why not raise the GST back to 7%, allow for the ~1% decrease in income tax for the middle class and fully eliminate GST on family essentials, like child clothing, shoes, hygiene products and baby food (just to name a few). That is a gesture of good faith to those not wealthy enough to benefit from a $4000 savings on a new car and it applies to every single Canadian.
For the middle class: more money in your pocket, more to spend at your own discretion.
For the lower income who don’t pay income tax: the savings on your essentials will put more money back in your pocket to make ends meet.
It’s common sense…. which, in politics, is clearly not all that common.
On the GST cut this is the way I see it. A fellow is paying $100,000 for a vehicle (Mercedes and Lexus SUVs). He will save $1,000. If he can afford the vehicle in the first place, does anyone really think that he cares about the $1000???
On the other hand, someone going to WalMart to buy clothes for their kids, and spending $100, will save $1. How does this help this person?
And a 1% cut in the GST is equal to about $5 billion to the government every year that could very well be spent on social housing, environmental incentives etc. etc. etc.
But it’s a “done deal”, people, so let’s move on. I believe the lead here today was about the Liberal party abstaining. Way to go, Garth. Your time will come and you’ll be rewarded in spades. Fight the good fight!
On another note, Kady O’Malley from Macleans wonders why no one is paying more attention to this story:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=e74e9edc-95e1-40f1-b505-da585d7961d4
C.B. Innes Wrote:
“It is easy to be critical when you don’t bother to supply any data yourself.
I have been searching for up-to-date median figures without any success for some time. The latest I have been able to find for Canada is 1999.
The spread between the average and median income provide a good clue as to the trend of inequality.”
I’m under NDA with respect to the specifics of the data. I can, however, share the results of some analysis.
The GST is a tax on “non-essential” consumption. The more you earn, the lower the percentage of “non-essential” items will make up your consumption. For instance – milk consumption for a household of 4 doesn’t vary that much based on income. Somebody from the top quintile isn’t going consume more milk just because they can afford it.
A household in the top quintile spends a much lower percentage of their overall income on the tax exempt essentials of life.
Somebody in the top quintile is going to enjoy a higher overall percentage tax cut than somebody in the bottom quintile because of these ratios.
Since, in practice, nobody in Canada really spends everything they earn on GST subjected items, nobody is going to enjoy a full 1% reduction in their effective tax rate.
However, somebody with a very, very high income in the top quintile might experience as high as a .75% reduction in their effective tax rate.
Somebody in the fourth quintile might also stand to see a reduction as a high as .55 to .70% in their effective tax rate. Those in the fourth quintile tend to save much less than those in the top quintile more generally, and the ‘excess’ consumption is in a bid to emulate top quintile peers (my theory, anyway)….
Those in the middle quintile, the true Canadian middle class – stand to see a .25% reduction in their effective tax rate.
In the 2nd quintile? Possibly .10%.
And those in the bottom quintile? Why, they might be lucky to see a .05% reduction.
In effect, looking at the gradient — the richer you are, the bigger the benefit. It’s basically a Bush Tax Cut in the spirit of “Those who pay the taxes in this country ought to see the cuts”. Everybody from 2nd, 3rd and 4th quintiles cheer this…thinking that they’re going to screw the people on the bottom.
In reality, the 5th quintile of households, in most provinces, are net beneficiaries of the tax system.
So, all the Conservative voters in the 4th and 3rd quintiles really just screwed themselves over with the GST cut. Way to go.
So, if you’re happy with your peanuts from the Conservatives, that’s great. Be happy with your peanuts.
And for me?
In 2008, the GST cut will save my household 5,900 dollars.
It’s a confluence of being at the right age and in the right area of the economy.
That’s 5,900 dollars less for the Federal Government. Certainly, that money won’t be going towards expanding a highway that runs out to Milton, that’s for sure.
Is it fair? If the tables were turned, probably not.
G&M reporting 1300 jobs cut at Chrysler plant mostly in Canada in Branton Ontario, due to slow down in US and low American dollar….hmmm right again Garth..but hey Mr. Flaherty lowered the GST… sad thing is this is not funny and there is more to come.. PMSH will be trying even harder to make the Liberals fire the first round to he can unleash his attack adds we the taxpayer paid for even those who will soon be unemployed…
Garth, please explain these to every body e-mails that have messages send or pass on are selling your address and you will not die or win the lotto by following instruction. Delete them just once and see if you wake up the next day, from then on it’s a snap.
Welfare is no joke…in all my years I have never one person who gave up their home or job to try it. Same as persnoal bankruptcy….do not try it thinking life will be better….survial at best.
In any rate just cleanned up some leaves and had a fresh apple I picked myself yesterday from the Annapolis Valley, grrr….ate. Reminds me of school days walking home from a 2 room school in Wentworth County….SS#4 East Flamboro. Never had a bkie till Iwas in grade 5 and then it was used. So I can do with less coffee and will send a little money along to remove the Bully on the Hill when M. Dion decides not him. So Ladies and Gentleman who really is in control. The Bully or the one who practices re-strength? All good things come to those who have the time and patients to wait.
Do you know that they would have to spend $15,000 to $20,000 PER MONTH to realize this!!!!
Elderly man dies from water-rage attack in Australia.
BCE shareholders that will have to pay huge capital gains when the stock goes private will be very pissed on this CRAP broken promise.
http://communities.canada.com/financialpost/blogs/wealthyboomer/archive/2007/10/30/tax-relief.aspx
One living from pay cheque to pay cheque, however, would certainly appreciate an extra 25 bucks a month.
By Jim on 11.01.07 10:10 am
Another one from the Flaherty school of math and taxation.
$25/month equals $300/year. So to save $300/year on GST’d stuff due to a 1% cut, they would have to spend $30,000, excluding food, rent/mortgage etc..etc…etc…
Please define low income. Once you have, I think you’ll see they don’t spend the amount required to get the benefit of an extra $25/month because of the cut, because they can’t. And that’s why low income people get GST rebates.
The only good thing Mr. Flaherty did, if I understand correctly, is the GST rebate will be at the same level as now, even though GST paid will be lower.
This measure should put money back in the lower incomes pockets.
This is the fourth time I am saying ” Call the election before CRAP figure out the half dumb side of things or life will be miserable until late 2009.”
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=47a541bc-7a3c-4bdf-8be9-db499b67cd5c&k=69096&p=1
In 2008, the GST cut will save my household 5,900 dollars.
By LoH_Numa on 11.01.07 1:24 pm
Right place, right time eh!
If a 1% GST cut saves you $5,900/year, you have to be spending $590,000/year. I know people who earn that type of money and more, so I don’t begrudge you earning it.
Just don’t forget, the average family income (see earlier posts) is nowhere near what you must be earning. In fact your income must be in the top 0.5% of all income earners.
Trevor Johnson, and more? — Garth
By Jean on 11.01.07 12:20 am
Late in reading this post, but I’m with Garth. The CPC trolls are following the same strategy of those in the US – repeat the same message over an over and over again. But finally the majority of American citizens have begun to realize they have been hoodwinked by fascists in that ‘Black House.
Only caught part of what Henry Champ said yesterday around noon – something about the Comptroller General (long term) as opposed to the Fed Chairman (quarterly) that the US is already 39 TRILLION $$$ in debt and if something isn’t done pronto, by 2030, their debt will match or exceed their GDP. Tried to find it on CBC this am but couldn’t. Maybe I’ll have luck later.
And our dear wannabe Bush PM & his INCOMPETENT Minister of Finance wants to emulate the Bush Admin. Hey 16 of 20 Canada’s leading economists are against this latest 1@ GST drop. Basicallly it benefits big wage earners who spend, but does very little for low wage earners. Unfortunately, the majority of lower wage earners don’t have the smarts to realize they are being shafted.
And then Flatley said don’t expect any more ‘vote buying candies’, but many in the media say there is much more room for tax cuts, but he’s holding so he can bombard to public with more tax cuts just before the election – which they’re frustrated cause the Libs aren’t playing his game.
Anyway that’s how I see the picture.
Wal-mart to sell books, magazines, greeting cards and gift wrap at U.S. list prices.
Cars to follow?
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 11.01.07 12:38 pm
Unfortunately, we are still paying too much as the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US, so we will be paying a premium unless we buy US dollars first and pay with US dollars.
May 18, 2007 — Liberal finance critic John McCallum on whether or not a Liberal government would increase the GST: “It’s an option. All I can say is that it is consistent with our approach. But I’m not about to say that the Liberal party will raise the GST because that’s not been decided.”
Consistent with our approach? How long until a party policy is released so we can know what the Liberal approach is? This quote with Dion stating he would consider rescinding the GST cut makes me wonder what is their intentions.
It’s not my intention. — Garth
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 11.01.07 12:38 pm
Wow, I just realized I will save $0 because I buy none of those items at WalMart.
Got a flyer from Two-Tier Tony Clement and it claims the CPC has ‘cracked down on speed racing’. Oh really?
That is a provincial matter, and the ones who got the new Ontario law into place are…TADA…LIBERALS!
He also, in his CPC prepared flyer says the CPC ‘have restricted the use of house arrest for serious crimes.
Really? Garth how about that? When, and what Bill did that?
In Thursdays QP, MP Thibault stood up an essentially accused The Right Honourable Brian Mulroney of criminality and that the government should launch a political vendetta, as did the Chretien government and it cost the Canadian taxpayers %2 Million.
You sit next to that MP from West Nova, and after he finished his question the entire Liberal caucuse rose and applauded .. BUT YOU REMAINED SEATED AND DID NOT APPLAUD AS REVEALED ON TV.
Any explanation for your lack of enthusiastic support for the Liberal attempt to drag Mulroney through the mire??
Is this all the Liberal party can do .. smear, dredge and insult??
I am in Ottawa to work on issues that affect Canadians, not politicians. — Garth
James-Chatham:
“Right place, right time eh!
If a 1% GST cut saves you $5,900/year, you have to be spending $590,000/year. I know people who earn that type of money and more, so I don’t begrudge you earning it.”
You don’t have to have a household income of 590,000 a year to spend 590,000.
I’m sure, at the end of the day, Conservatives will congratulate themselves for “keeping all their promises” when we all know full well that the Conservatives keeping one promise (the GST cuts) does NOT excuse their brutal pillaging of senior’s nest eggs.
There’s no such thing as ‘moral offsets’ or a ‘morality trading market’.
The GST should have been used for infrastructure, child care and the environment.
By Emilie on 11.01.07 2:44 am
Emilie – I agree, but I’ll also add Health Care and EDUCATION. My DH & I ate Kd 2X a week – not because we wanted to – but because we had a goal. We were educated, but when my DH came here, from France, none of his educational credits were recognized. He helped Dalhouse engineering students ay night but he had to work as a labourer at Dal during the day. I can somewhat compare it to all the Cdn ads overseas trying to recruit Drs, Engineers, etc. but they don’t tell them they’re chances of actually working in their profession are next to nil.
Canada has to get its act together – no matter what political party is in power. Not all Drs/Engineers/highly qualified people from other countries pefer to emigrate to the US. But most do because it is easier. Canada, IMHO, has to change its immigration policy and spend the bucks to mentor these people and ensure they can reach their full potential – and not end up being taxi drivers.
We have friends in Germany who would love to permantently live in our little province but the obstacles are insurmountable to them. She’s a family court judge and he’s in IT & all kinds of other businesses. I can’t give them any encouragement. We see what has happened with our Tory Emmigration Plan – a disgrace and the new Minister has admitted it wasn’t a priority. They’re now calling for an Enquiry.
Why are Tory (CPC) govts incompetent and fraudulent – Mulrooney fiasco!!!
PS Had to get that in as the Con trolls never cease to say the same thing about Libs, but never admit how frudulent the Cons are.
W And thats my opinion & I’m sticking by it.
“Why do you find it necessary to have 20 false identities on this blog? What are you hiding? — Garth”
What the hell are you talking About?
Check you email adresses!
Email addies, of course, mean squat. I have other means of troll detection. There is no escape. — Garth
Garth I don’t agree with your statement we need lower interest. There is no way we are going to be able to keep up with the U.S’s race for a zero value currency and there is many reasons we should not even try.
We need to adapt to a higher dollar not destroy our own, the U.S. dollar is beyond being saved and we need to look at widening our markets not devaluing ourselves so we can sell to a bankrupt(finacially and morally) country.
Conservative Party of Canada candidate Brent Barr told he’s no longer welcome to run in the next federal election
November 01, 2007
ROB O’FLANAGAN
MERCURY STAFF
GUELPH
http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/article/256647
“With a “heavy and shocked heart,” Brent Barr revealed yesterday that he has been ousted as Guelph’s Conservative Party of Canada candidate.
In what Barr yesterday called an “abuse of power” and a “fiasco” on the part of the party, his candidacy was terminated on the grounds that he was failing to significantly raise the Conservative profile in the city, and not campaigning enough. Barr and a central local figure in the party said the rationale for the dismissal was dubious, and the decision is potentially divisive among party faithful.”
By LoH_Numa on 11.01.07 2:33 pm
Agreed. But if you’re spending $590,000 in a year and not making anywhere close to that, then you must be buying it on credit or taking out a large mortgage.
So unless you’re going to be paying it off over a very long period of time,:-( you’re income will be well above the average or even the median!
PLus you’ll need a pretty good income for the banks to even consider loaning that amount!
Mulroney cash payments dubbed ‘almost unbelievable’
Rules were stringent, former Mountie says
GREG MCARTHUR
From Thursday’s Globe and Mail
November 1, 2007 at 4:28 AM EDT
2.1 million dollars !
He should pay that money back.
There should be an inquiry into Mulroneys perjury and the RCMP and con cover up
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071101.wcash01/BNStory/National/home
BTW. Garth,
tell Mr. Dion to leave Mr. Mulroney alone. If there’s any wrong doing, the CRA will catch him.
Remember, Al Capone was caught by the tax man not the police!
You might want to take a look at what the AG had to say about boarder security!
Any explanation for your lack of enthusiastic support for the Liberal attempt to drag Mulroney through the mire??
Is this all the Liberal party can do .. smear, dredge and insult??
I am in Ottawa to work on issues that affect Canadians, not politicians. — Garth
By Harry S on 11.01.07 2:32 pm
………………
I sincerely thank you for that clarification, and I understand and respect your principled approach to politics and issues. I once called you a “renegade” politician, but now I reiterate that with a real respect for you.
If I lived in Halton and you ran as an independent, I would most certainly vote for you .. but since you are in the Liberal party, I cannot in good conscience support you. Sorry .. I have nothing against you, only the Liberal party. I have principles too.
USA Feds injected $41 Bbbbilion in “temporary†reserves yesterday – highest since 911…throw another log on the fire
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 11.01.07 10:54 am
. . . as opposed to the Fed Chairman (quarterly) that the US is already 39 TRILLION $$$ in debt and if something isn’t done pronto, by 2030, their debt will match or exceed their GDP. . . .
By KPN on 11.01.07 2:05 pm
Does anyone see a trend here? Sooner or later, the piper has to be paid no matter what a person’s political views are.
Maybe it’s getting close to time for all of us to take a walk on the wild side! Or, if one prefers, the other side!
A line from “On The Run”, the second track of Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon — “here today, gone tomorrow — that’s me!”
It would be interesting to know what percentage of the 251,649 immigrants to Canada in 2006 were classified as “skilled” ?
http://www.ndp.ca/page/5837
Charles, the Piper will never be paid..the snow-snorting-bulls will stuff more and more paper up his behind until George pushes the EASY button to set his Armageddon aburning.
The whole system is build on debt, deceit, theft, slavery and bloodshed and requires a now non-existing sense of morals to straighten it out.
Tories drop 2 would-be Ontario candidates
Mark Warner, Brent Barr no longer party’s picks
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 | 10:51 PM ET
CBC News
Two former federal Conservative candidates said Wednesday they’ve been unfairly pushed aside by the party despite being acclaimed for the next election.
In fact last year’s Conservative platform said the party would ensure nomination races are fair and transparent, but the recent decisions by the Tories’ national office has left the two former contenders questioning the process.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/10/31/dropped-candidates.html
Dion should speak this way all the time! Crap liars deserve to hear it over and over again like a broken record.
http://www.liberal.ca/story_13274_e.aspx
“I abstained with balls.” – Garth
Yes, but they must be getting sore, straddling the fence like that for so long.
I brought my Conservative cup with me. — Garth
I am in Ottawa to work on issues that affect Canadians, not politicians. — Garth
Garth, I didn’t have time for QP today, working mostly out of the office. However, is this true? Did you sit while the others stood up and applauded? If so, thank you.
People forget that Mr. Mulroney was the target of one of the largest most expensive probes in our history. Mr. Chretien had a personal axe to grind and wanted Mulroney gutted, skewered and served up for supper. If Mr. Mulroney broke the law, they would have found it. As for the taxes…yeah, he was late paying, but voluntarily came forward and payed the piper. No one had to ‘out him’, he did it on his own.
He brought Canada many great things, one of which was a fiscal plan that the following Liberal government relied heavily on and did not change a thing. We today are still operating under Mr. Mulroney’s fiscal policy and very little has changed. He was also one of the most environment friendly PMs, having tackled acid rain head on. I believe he received an award recently for that. Did he make mistakes? Certainly. But, over all (except for that damn free trade) he is a good man and served us well.
To try to drag him through the mud now, is just dirty politics. I know some are angry about his ‘book’, but that’s just tough. He wrote about our history and issues that were relevant to him at that time.
Garth gets a huge point for sitting when it was the right thing to do.
Leasa
Garth, your woes of our Southern cousins going south is once again backed by this NYT articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/business/01cnd-stox.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
And on a lighter note, I found these on oildrum.com, a peak oil news website well worth looking at.
Economists
The First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist.
The Second Law of Economists: They’re both wrong.
****
An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn’t happen today.
****
A physicist, a chemist and an economist are stranded on an island, with nothing to eat. A can of beans washes ashore. The chemist says, “Let’s build a fire until the beans explode out of the can.” The physicist says, “Great idea! I’ll plot the trajectory so we can catch them”. The economist shakes his head and says, “No, no, no. Lets assume that we have a can-opener…”
****
A party of economists was climbing in the Alps . After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting on distant landmarks, consulting his compass, and finally the sun.
Finally he said, ‘ OK see that big mountain over there?’
‘Yes’, answered the others eagerly.
‘Well, according to the map, we’re standing on top of it.’
****
Q: Why did God create economists?
A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.
Definition of an Economist: Someone who knows a little math, but doesn’t have enough personality to become an accountant.
I long for the good old days when Garth was an Independent, and he could call the issues as he saw them without fear of party discipline or caucus backlash.
At that time, he was able to represent us, the people! We had a voice speaking for the thousands of grassroots voters who feel disenfranchised by the old line party system.
There is still a grassroots out there waiting for a leader who will do politics differently, and who will allow freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and freedom to dissent for every Member of Parliament.
It cannot happen under the old system. Oh, that Garth had remained Independent.
Garth, we beg you, we urge you to come back to your true roots. You don’t belong to them. You belong to us, the people!
Jeffrey Simpson in to-day’s G&M
“Almost no one educated in economics would do what the government led by a man with an M.A. in economics has done.
But he is also the country’s principal political leader and, from the moment he put pen to paper to draft the Conservative platform, politics has trumped economics on tax policy.”
Sad but True!
Garth – a great blog posting which sums up our current dilemna quite nicely.
http://priceofoil.org/2007/11/01/twelve-dollars-a-year/
I especially like the last paragraph:
“…the answer should be the same: get our nation off its oil addiction. Mayors, governors, presidents – and the people who elect them – should be thinking about little else these days.”
Our politicians of all stripes seem to spend far much time fiddling with peanuts like a percent of GST or income tax, while the 800 pound gorilla of peak global oil production (the same dynamic which is driving our dollar through the roof and killing our manufacturing sector) goes completely unacknowledged.
LoH_Numa on 11.01.07 1:24 pm,
You would have to have an income that is well above average to even afford to purchase over half a million dollars of taxable goods a year on credit. It would take a great deal of income to service that kind of debt.
I have no recent data but the median net worth of Canadian households in 1999 was $109, 200.
Wow, this is so unfortunate for these 2 booted conservativesw; they seemed to care about real people and real issues including affordable housing, HIV Aides, poverty, issues facing ordinary families etc.
How sad. Hope Harpo is happy now. Listen up – or else.
Quite the democracy we have now.
Think it but don’t you dare say it.
Thank you Garth for your wonderful webpage.
By Keith Phibbs on 11.01.07 2:43 pm
Grandstand Steve
The Juan Valdez of bobbleheads.
Jeffrey Simpson in to-day’s G&M
“Almost no one educated in economics would do what the government led by a man with an M.A. in economics has done.
But he is also the country’s principal political leader and, from the moment he put pen to paper to draft the Conservative platform, politics has trumped economics on tax policy.â€
Sad but True!
By Al Brekke on 11.01.07 4:11 pm
And the point of that is what??
What party doesn’t trump tax policy with politics? What party doesn’t trump common sense with politics? Don’t think for a moment that Harper invented political opportunism. We have watched it perfected by the libs for decades.
You want a good tax policy? How about $20,000 exemption then 20% there after regardless of your income. Rich will pay lots of tax, middle class will pay their share, low income pay nothing. Everything proportionate to your income.
Politics will never allow such common sense.
Garth, I didn’t have time for QP today, working mostly out of the office.
Leasa, you have a job that you can watch TV all afternoon….must work for the goverment hey.
In my day we use to ask this questiom
Why is it that goverment people can not look out the window in the morning? Because they will have nothing to do all afternoon. ha ha….
Good to see Leasa things have gotten better with the TV must be in the PMO’s favour!
Hope your time out of the office is pensionable …. cool girl.
Congrats and thanks to the folks who made it to the HOC to voice their opposition to the Income Trust tax.
If and when we go to the vote, your voices will multiply to a thunderous roar.
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 11.01.07 3:23 pm
You’re 100% right, so why don’t we all have a nice trip to hell? It’s a great place for a holiday, but I wouldn’t want to live there!
By persona sine ingenio on 11.01.07 4:01 pm
Great jokes! They sure brighten up one’s day, so thanks!
Other then with a lower consumption tax, how would an income tax cut help the poorest Canadians who pay no income tax in the first place? How would the Liberal party help the lowest wage earners without a reduction of a consumption tax?
Here’s the thing. People in low income brackets, and particularly those who pay no income tax at all, pay very little GST. Groceries are exempt. Rent isn’t taxed. Reducing taxes by one percent on the small fraction of expenses that are taxable doesn’t matter.
An income tax cut won’t help the very lowest income earners – that’s what social programs are for. But if it’s set up properly, it will help the vast bulk of the working poor and struggling middle class. Consumption tax cuts disproportionately benefit people with a lot of money left after the basics are taken care of.
SLG & Ann, I’m sorry if my being a nice person bothers you so much. I just don’t hate you. Sorry.
By Leasa on 11.01.07 10:57 am
Leasa, you don’t bother me, and I don’t hate you either, just sayin’…
One question: did you abstain because you wanted to abstain or because the leader instructed you to abstain? By Ottawa man.
Garth claims he abstained by his own choice and wants us to believe him
but if the truth be known he abstained because the Leader and party whip stated they will abstain. Secondly, The Liberals were told if they voted on the tax cuts update they would be turfed from caucus
Were you there, or just making this up? — Garth
Jim
What’s the point of that.
“Beer and popcorn”
Cheers
Persona sine …
that definition of an economist is the same one applied to tax lawyers by a
Tax Judge who participting in the Tax Court 20th Anniversary Symposium a few years ago.
Made a note of it when reading the proceedings while doing some routine taxpayer research for a battle with CRA.
By David Bakody on 11.01.07 5:23 pm
Oh Dave, you are such a silly-head! I am self employed and yes, I have a t.v. in my office! Oh horrors! Listening to the t.v. gets me through the absolute boredom of paperwork. I would so much rather work outside. Why would I need the permission of the PMO to have my telly? Did I miss something? Most sincerely, Leasa
Were you there, or just making this up? — Garth.
Didn’t make it up at all Garth only stating reality and the obvious which seems to elude you.
My question to you is: Did or did not Dion or someone in his office threaten to kick anyone out of the caucus who would vote on the “budget” motion. It was widely reported that Dion made the threat to at least one Liberal MP.
So Garth, Come clean and stop trying to convince us that you abstained on your volition without pressure from the boss or one of his handlers? Sorry ole bean I just don’t believe your spin.
It is apparent that Dion and his Liberal Mps have lost their principal and are more interested in their own self preservation and these abstaining actions will come back to haunt them on the next campaign trail. No one wants a PM who can’t make a decision one way or the other but prefers to sit on the fence.
By Charles Oxley on 11.01.07 3:03 pm
I heard the U.S , that means ALL Americans and their so-called government, was more than $57 TRILLION in debt, and that was 20 years ago. I guess I need a Captain America Decoder Ring to ‘adjust’ reality, eh?
By Greg on 11.01.07 11:57 am
Check a little deeper and see how much Archer Daniels Midland owns of Cargill.
By persona sine ingenio on 11.01.07 4:01 pm
ROFLMAO!
Thank you.
Garth
It is amazing on how you can keep telling us what we like and do not like. The tax breaks were welcomed by the people I speak with. These people are common folk and do not buy the expensive items you mentioned.
You cannot explain away the actions of the Liberal the past month. It has been pathetic. The pary is in disaray. This is evident by the daily comments coming out of your MP’s. You are for tax cuts, tougher laws but you abstain from the votes. Then blame the Prime Minister and calling him a bully. It that is the case swhat words would be used to describe your great leader “Whimp”.
Check a little deeper and see how much Archer Daniels Midland owns of Cargill.
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.01.07 8:12 pm
I’m not familiar with them Bill. I just know Cargill has got a lot of dough to invest. In Alberta they built huge pork processing plants that are capable of mind boggling production and imported hundreds of foreign workers who they paid $8/hr and built glorified tent cities for them to live in. Need I mention what happened to local competition?
How many seniors can afford to spend $1500 to $2000 a month on taxable goods (assuming you are referring to the overall 2 per cent reduction, if not it would be $3000 to $4000)? You obviously have a very different concept of what constitutes a low fixed income than the most other Canadians. Even for the $1500 level you are assuming that a person has $18,000 of after tax income to spend on taxable goods (not food or housing). The average after tax income for a single elderly female is $23,200 and male is $27,000. These are “average†incomes not those for a low income senior.
By C. B. Innes on 11.01.07 10:18 am
OK CB – let’s examine monthly actuals:
Hydro (say 75$ per month 5.25-3
.75) = 1.50
Cable & net (say 60$ per month 4.2-3
.00) = 1.20
Telephone (say 50$ per month 3
.50-2.5) = 1.00
Cleaning supplies (laundry soap, shampoo and condioner, toilet paper, kleenex, dish soap, other cleaners: 25$ per month 1.75-1.25_ = .50
Gasoline for car (75$ per month 5.25-3
.75) = 1.50
Coffee with friends (40$ per month 2.80-2.00) = .80
Cat or dog food (50$ per month 3.50-2.50) = 1.00
Car maintenance (1000$ per year/month 5.80 – 4.10) = 1.70
Clothing (a meager 600$ per year/month 42.00-30.00/12) = 1.00
Gifts for grand kids (christmas, birthdays, graduations: 600$ per year/month 42.00-30.00/12) = 1.00
This alone equals 11.20 per month and these are very very low estimates AND do include the other few extras – like internet, cell phones, some meals out with friends, etc.
Oh Garth, as a Conservative candidate in Halton, did you not campaign on the GST rate reduction from 7 to 5 percent? Did you believe in that or was it a just a political charade?
Yup, I supported reducing the GST – just like I told my voters that Stephen Harper would never tax income trusts and would lower their income taxes. Guess we all have things to atone for, don’t we? — Garth
Yup, I supported reducing the GST – just like I told my voters that Stephen Harper would never tax income trusts and would lower their income taxes. Guess we all have things to atone for, don’t we? — Garth
By Catherine on 11.01.07 9:53 pm
So was it a political charade on you part? If so, then will you support your new leader’s plan to increase the GST to a higher rate?
Why not come clean and state clearly what the Liberal (and your) vision is on the GST?
Surely, after a year as a Liberal leader, Mr. Dion has some concrete, pragmatic vision and plans. Sitting on the fence is not an asset.
No charade on my part, but I can’t vouch for Mr. Harper. I have concluded in the past two years that spending $6 billion in a further GST cut, which most people do not even notice, when we are doing nothing about climate change, is a totally screwed-up approach to national governance. As for increasing the GST, I will never be voting for it. — Garth
Jean Lapierre said today on Duffy that the Conservatives will win at least 40 seats in Quebec, and the Liberals may only win 8. He went on to say, that the Quebec caucus wants an election now, because things will only get worse for Dion and the Libs.
Email addies, of course, mean squat. I have other means of troll detection. There is no escape. — Garth
Garth your losing it, go back and check the comments, Not one positive to Harpo and his government. Conservative operative indeed?
“As for increasing the GST, I will never be voting for it.” — Garth
But Mr. Dion is considering it. If this should become party policy of a Liberal government, and it was a whipped vote, what would you do?
Oh my goodness; I was flaberghasted to hear about our sole Albertan Canadian on Death Row. Geez, I remember the Goden Mile.
Many people who are innocent die because someone gets a kick out of watching someone found guilty of a horrendous crom.
Many people have been put to death just because.
This person is about as honest and sincere as anyone could be. Consider his age, consider his mentality at the time, consider his remorse, consider victims, consider his pleas.
Harper and
Stockwell day are dead wron in this case.
What do you think I could do to advocate for this person?
He’s sorry but he was stupid and probably falls into the ‘two tier legal system’.
I will help in any way that I can to help this person as I did with the David Milgarrd case.
Actually, I’ll become a volunteer for justice. Please help this person who Bush would love to kill.
Good Lord, The villans in the Harper Government are showing their true colours and it very scary.
Harper and his company’s smirks are as arrogant as they get these days.
Thank you for not forcing an election because we would have missed these quirps.
Garth:
I haven’t forgotten the IT scandal last year. I don’t like the CONservatives ploy to make everything in Parliament a confidence vote either. If PMSH has that much confidence, why doesn’t he quit lying to the public and say so?
So far the “New” Government (Ya, right!) hasn’t been able to buy their way to a majority with all their spending of the taxpayers money- hooray for the people seeing through their political schemes.
Good luck helping the Liberal Party do better in the next election!
There is no inconsideration about my statement, since lower-income people spend most of their incomes on essentials which are GST-exempt. I suggest you acquaint yourself wit the facts. Might be an enjoyable new experience for you ~ Garth
JIm On, as someone who wafts from one (monthly) “paycheck” to another let me TELL YOU, that $25 a month in GST rebate is a JOKE!! What I ACTUALLY need is the money and help to get a REAL JOB, not some jerk suggesting I would come out ahead with a GST reduction! I mean really, do you “get it” at ALL? The Disabilities Act of Canada has been IGNORED For YEARS. When Harper got in we knew it could only get WORSE, and it IS getting worse by the day here in Ontario, people are living in housing WAY under standard, there is no hope of being gainfully employed, there are NO PROGRAMS whatsoever that work. Computers are NOT considered “assistive devices” and furniture to accomodate disabilities (and Canada paid WHAT amount to connect all the “communities” – it surely didn’t connect the disabled community!). With $515 per month after a ridiculous $414 per month rent allotment – you think we should be paying GST at ALL? GET REAL. We don’t pay GST on food on a budget like that; we go to FOOD BANKS that give us 4 days food per month. If we are smart we go to 3 food banks per month here in TO. Garth is TOTALLY correct; the disabled are just as CANADIAN, as are seniors, as anyone else.
The THANG is you are falling for the demonization (or delusional disappearance of) of the poor in which The Harper plays master of ceremonies.
But let’s just keep handing out little sweets to Rick Hillier instead of taking care of Canada’s own, shall we??? And susbsidizing those Oh! So! hard done by bankers who gave out all those risky little loans while having not one moment trouble with their consciences as they ripped people off for YEARS.
Yeah, I’ll tell ya – people are pissed off! But it ain’t gonna get better here in Canada without a VISION and a PLAN that includes EVERYONE. And our kidz are watching what happens ..
Virginia,
And given your self-stated desperate situation, I sure hope you voted in your provincial election for anyone else but McGuinty. Why? Because under our constitution all of those ailments that you rail about are the province’s responsibility. Not the feds.
Here in Alberta the provincial government has the responsibility to deal with those types of issues.
Ed the Hun
Quite interesting. Andrew Coyne has left the NP and is now National Editor for Maclean’s.
By Virginia on 11.02.07 4:10 am
Harper has a vision alright…A vision of himself as President with similar Executive powers like his buddy Bush.
As to the average Canadian…he could not give a damn less…unless he thinks they will vote for his candidate of choice. I know his type only too well, and they never change because they are mentally dysfunctional.
But then we have seen this before as the latest in a long line of Caesar Disgustus goes forth.
Even the media is calling him on it, but that means nothing to his meglamaniac mind. Sicko all the way!
I note Van Loan looks really scared over the Mulroney exposure. Good!
By runnerdanchuk on 11.02.07 1:21 am
I remember he killed two people. That he chose to do so. That he did so in a foreign country. The point being he committed a Capitol Offense, Murder, and did so in a democratic country where he received a fair trial.
He made a choice. We have no obligation to rescue him. I agree with the way Stoickwell Day stated the issue. It has specifics to it, and I agree. it was not some generalized blanket policy like the MSM attempted to make it sound.
I am not for the death penalty (I’d rather see the bastard suffer for the rest of their life in a rothole…so humanitarian that is, eh?), but I am also not for free-passes everytime some criminal decides they can get out of jail or consequences free, and at our expense.
Reminds me a lot of the Lebanon crisis…everyone wants to go do their thing and then wants Canada to come to their rescue.
That is an item that gives liberals and the NDP a bad rep…bleeding hearts without a reality check.
Were there questionable points to his conviction, false accusations, etc., then Canada should assist. Where there is a clear conviction or confession. Well, that is called a consequnce in real life.
What pisses me off the most are the true screaming nutbars who think people like this are worthy of the compassion we extend to average normal people.
Just like that POS Dawg, the bounty hunter. He got caught being his true Redneck, racist self. What a scumbag. And his girlfriend/wife/piece is no better.
Want a real civilized society? Then stop reinforcing these criminals. Otherwise, don’t complain.
We have laws that transfer the punishment and trial to the State because otherwise it would be the Law of the Blood Avenger. We can’t have it both ways folks. TW, the matter is not one Bush caused in this case because each State in the U.S. determines its own laws and penalties. There is no federal law regarding murder in the U.S.. Why give Bush credit for something he has no part of?
Also, be thankful we have one Federal Criminal Code that guarantees equal treatment in serious crimes across Canada. Another pojnt to remember about SPP and NAU. Do you want to have our laws changed to a managerie of the mess the U.S. has with 50 States writing different laws to suit the local hate level? Don’t we have enough of that sort of mentality coming out of Quebec?
That is what SPP and NAU will bring Canada, along with a devalued high debt economy.
By runnerdanchuk on 11.02.07 1:21 am
Ha, ha, ha. If my government intervened here in any way I’d be very disappointed. This killer has been on death row since 1982 and everyone is upset about him NOW? He went to the U.S., shot two people (one in the back of the head), it is there law that he will fry. I say, good. If you don’t want to fry in some U.S. states don’t go there and start killing people. Make sense? Oh yeah, it does! Leasa
Leasa on 11.02.07 12:20 pm,
These comments certainly reveal “blood lust.”
What really differentiates people is how they regard matters of life and death. The same differences are illustrated by those who oppose the concept behind the killing fields of Afghanistan and Iraq and those who support them.
I have always opposed the death penalty because I believe that two wrongs never a right. When a person is executed he is simply replaced by another murderer or murderers who are created by the state.
By Leasa on 11.02.07 12:20 pm
Leasa, like I said, passive-aggressive. (no ‘hugs’ with this one?)
Yes, Bill, I know we are on the same page. LOL. The martinette Mind (Straussites ALL the way) has invaded Canada and one can only hope that at least some of the Canadian Parliamentarians have SPINE, a thing so drastically lacking in the US CONgress.
Insanity is insanity no matter how you slice or dice – no matter which side of the border on which you are residing.
We are going to have to fight tooth and nail to preserve the Charter and Declaration on Human Rights, is how I see it .. and all the values that helped create them.
Veeger
By Leasa on 11.02.07 12:20 pm – and others who cheer the death penalty – in this country we have numerous examples of wrongfully convicted persons (Milgaard, Marxhall, Morin, Truscott and Driskell to name a very few of the many). Some have even been executed (Wilbert Coffin in 1956 currently under Department of Justice review). Do you seriously think similar miscarriages of justice don’t happen in the USA ? Would you like to be the ones who have to go to the survivors of a wrongfully convicted and executed person, to tell them their relative had to be sacrificed to the greater glory of Bush and Harper ?
Douglas, would this man’s confession on W5 mean anything to you
By Douglas P on 11.02.07 5:35 pm
By KH on 11.02.07 9:22 pm
Did not see the W5 item, but my short answer is no. Newspaper quotes of Smith’s current lawyer suggest he did not receive consular advice he was entitled to at the time and claims his original lawyer was less than capable (I don’t know if this is factual). His partner in crime received a 60 year sentence and is already out. I don’t know the strength of the evidence, but I do remember that in a Canadian case,Steven Truscott was so browbeaten by the police that he confessed to a crime he did not commit and the conviction was much later overturned. I was a proponent of the death penalty until about 10 years ago – have seen too many cases as mentioned in my earlier submission to be comfortable with it any more. Lock the person up for life if you wish, at least that way he/she is still around if the conviction is later overturned.