The news of 1,100 jobs lost at Chrysler’s Brampton is devastating. It comes just weeks after a shift was lost at GM in Oshawa. The ripple effect is wide, as parts plants are impacted and the communities where all those auto families live brace for the impact of empty paycheques.
Nobody is to blame, specifically. But the fact remains Canada is becoming a tough sell as far as the manufacturing sector is concerned. The runaway dollar makes us less competitive; our interest rates hike business costs compared to other countries; and corporate taxes are still too dear. Labour is highly trained here, but expensive, and companies face a staggeringly high burden when it comes to government reporting and compliance.
In short, if we’re to retain a vibrant manufacturing sector, and not import everything, then all governments need to work on an integrated strategy to raise productivity, increase innovation and get us back in the game for investment in plant and equipment.
One more thing: Let’s not make stupid trade deals with countries only too happy to flood our market with cheap goods. Like cars.
The federal government is on the verge of signing a new free trade agreement with South Korea which turn into very bad news. Already that country sells 361 cars in Canada for every Canadian-made vehicle sold in Korea, and this pact seems to hold no promise at all our access will increase.
MPtv caught up with Liberal critic Judy Sgro this week, for an update. It’s news everyone who cares about a Canadian auto industry should know.
To view the video, click here.
Scrummus interruptus
The plight of the auto worker was much on the minds of MPs on Parliament Hill on Thursday. Well, opposition MPs, anyway, since no Conservatives mentioned it. Among those concerned was Brian Masse, the industry critic for the NDP.
Masse found himself in the middle of a media scrum which MPtv thought it would partake of. That is, until House of Commons security guards – under orders from the Chief Government Whip, evil Jay Hill – threw our cameraman out.
Here is the video he was able to get, before the long arm, heavy hand and dubious motivation of the law took its toll. To view, click here.
68 comments ↓
Police probe whether meeting took place at popular restaurant
Romeo St. Martin
Politics Watch ® News Services
November 1, 2007, updated 4:20 p.m.
http://www.politicswatch.com/conservatives-november1-2007.htm
Free trade with North Korea? Is that right or did you mean South Korea?
One way to make productiivity increase is to have the unions have less control. I am not too sure how CAW works but I have worked in many Ironworkers Union shops and Steelworkers shops. I would get in trouble if I worked too fast or made too many pieces in a day as the shop steward would tell me I am taking work away from others. I have no idea how some union shops can even bid and win contracts. The shop I work at I budget hours at an 85% effeciency rate per estimated man hour. The union shops I was at I would imagine they would have to bid at a 50% effeciency level. That is a big impact on labour which is usually the biggest cost. Non union companies have gotten much better at having increased moral so I believe the unions are getting weaker and not as needed as they were in years past.
Already that country sells 361 cars in Canada for every Canadian-made vehicle sold in Korea, and this pact seems to hold no promise at all our access will increase. – Garth
Garth, you’re starting to sound like Buzz Hargrove.
There are two issues to be dealt with. First, do these foreign countries actively pursue protectionist policies which prevent us from shipping our cars to their countries? If the answer to this is yes, then a properly structured free trade deal would seem the logical approach to remove these barriers.
But second, even if no barriers existed, would they buy our gas guzzling, expensive, monster vehicles over their, more efficient, cheaper, smaller vehicles? I doubt it.
Another question, do these foreign manufacturer also build vehicles in North America, like Honda and Toyota?
If so then they are no different from GM, Ford and Chrysler, who build vehicles in Canada, but also import vehicles made in the US.
The problem then is that the cost of producing vehicles in Canada is too high. Part of this is due to high wages and benefits, but the rapid rise of the dollar has magnified the problem.
Maybe Chrysler should make better cars, at an affordable price.
The No. 3 Detroit auto maker will announce today that it will no longer produce the Pacifica crossover utility vehicle in Windsor or the Dodge Magnum in Brampton, Ont., senior industry sources in Detroit said.
The cuts are part of a major reassessment of the auto maker’s product line as the company’s new owners, Cerberus Capital Management LP, try to turn Chrysler into a profitable company.
…………………..
What??!! .. Chrysler makes a product marketing decision and the Canadian government is supposed to bail out the CAW worker’s jobs?
How many of hundreds of Million’s of dollars did the Martin government give to the Detroit-based auto industry to stay in Canada? Has that money protected Canadian auto jobs at highly bloated union wages??
Maybe the Canadian government should stay out of subsidizing large industries, and only offer lower corporation taxes as an incentive to locate production in Canada.
Agree .. disagree ??
Garth, Gimme a break hit the nail on the head on this one, when the big three start making quality vehicles that Canadians want with half descent fuel mileage and good service at the dealers then they will sell more in NA and more then likely be able to crack the Asian market more successfully.
At that point maybe they will be able to do what Honda and others have done such as set up plants in Asian Countries. I find it quite funny to listen to Buzz spout off about how it is the govt’s fault, Take it up with the Big three Buzz, there the ones designing and producing vehicles that are not only not affordable anymore but are highly inefficient.
. . . the fact remains Canada is becoming a tough sell . . .
Canada is indeed a very hard sell, and it is not so much that the Canadian and Mexican economies are soaring; instead it is the Yankee buck which has lost a ton of its’ value, so it stands to reason that the other two must rise, because all three countries are so closely intertwined.
I used to work in both union and non-union printing shops; when the Cdn. $ went up, the customers went across the border (cheaper costs, which meant Cdn. layoffs), and then the reverse effect when it went down.
Now a lot of work which used to be done here has vanished forever — more lost jobs, other than the media reported ones.
Beyond the money though, one has to take into consideration where the NAU / SPP comes into play.
Neither of these two were ever spoken of under Mulroney or Chretien (as far as I can recall), so what is with all the secrecy? Why won’t any of them come clean about what THEY want?
What have the three amigos (or thieves) got which is good for all of their friends, yet the little people don’t count for diddly squat?
Beginning to look as if people should batten down their hatches and start circling the wagons, ‘coz it won’t be pretty.
I dumped my GM SUV in 2003 and bought a Honda because gas was on the rise (over $50). I saw it coming…so why did the masters of Chrysler that get paid hundreds of thousands a year not see it. Why were they not moving too more fuel efficient vehicles instead of these hemi motor large gas guzzlers? I have no sympathy for a company with no fore sight. Now with gas over $90 they claim it takes time to change? Where have they been for the last 3 years…certainly not paying attention to the dollar because they never adjusted prices as the dollar inched up…no they waited till we hit parity and now they have a 30% problem…and these are the guys getting the big pay and the bonuses…what a joke. Too bad for the workers. They should sue the idiots for bad management. Maybe some good news…after all the Canadian plants close we’ll need to import the cars made in the US…can we get them at US prices plus the now reduced GST?
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
The higher Canadian dollar is only part of the equation. Canadian workers can compete fine internationally if the dallar value and wages were equil.
Making stuff in Canada builds real wealth for Canada and employs hard working people here.
Jobs and equipment are being moved offshort to lower wage countrys, with lower/worse environmental and safty standards. That way the global corporations can make more/higher profits and compete with the other global corporations. The writch get writcher and the well paying jobs move off shore.
The environment and worker/people all take a hits everywere. Is this really good long term planing for people of the world?
So how does it feel when your current love affair starts attacking your former boss?
By Marc on 11.01.07 5:49 pm
You know Marc – I’ve just started to totally skip your comments. Won’t bother to read one of them again.
One version of ‘total economic collapse’ — about ten minutes long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cziN3gt-hic
If there is one thing we don’t need at the moment it’s more cheapy imports. It would certainly be nice if Gov. could see it’s way clear to taking down the roadblocks for Manufacturers like the electric car makers to begin with.
We went through an oil crises in the 80′s and the North American auto industry reacted by building smaller fuel efficient vehicles. Fuel prices dropped, and despite clear evidence of future concerns, these manufacturers went on a tear to build the biggest gas guzzlers they could. With big price tags to boot. And people bought them. I am always amazed at how otherwise intelligent people can be so short sighted.
Lee Iacocca drug Chrysler out of the abyss with his simple K car design that was used in numerous other models and even shared many components with the then revolutionary Mini Vans. Maybe everyone needs to reflect a little.
I feel for those folks getting hammered in the manufacturing sector, just like I felt for the farmers when Corporations and Governments were walking all over them. No-one paid much attention to that though, did they?
Another detrimental factor in retail pricing, was the big 3′s insistence on dealers having buildings that looked like Hotels. Many many dealers were forced to build premises worth in the millions in order to keep their franchise. This factors into the final cost significantly as it greatly raises their overhead costs. Personally, I didn’t care if the guy’s building was 50 years old, as long as he gave me a good price.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Tell the USA to confront climate change!
Sign the petition.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/usa_climate_action/6.php/?cl=35463130&signup=1
On Nov.5, over 5000 young people will converge on Washington to press the U.S. Congress for action on climate change.
“Masse found himself in the middle of a media scrum which MPtv thought it would partake of. That is, until House of Commons security guards – under orders from the Chief Government Whip, evil Jay Hill – threw our cameraman out.”
I am not sure it is appropriate to call any human being “evil.” Whose standard do we use for “good” and for “evil”? Does this not lead to judgmentalism and self-righteousness?
And is “evil” relative or absolute? Is it subjective to one person’s opinion, or is it objectively a true assessment that ALL should recognize as inherently and inalienably evil?
I have seen this phrase “evil Jay Hill” used more than once now. If he is inherently evil, why is there not an uproar on Parliament Hill about his ilk?
Since when does Jay Hill control Commons Security? Isn’t that the job of the Sergeant-at-Arms, or
specifically his Deputy?
Garth, some nosing around terms of reference and responsibilities might give you a chance to tell Hill to pound salt.
I have always owned North American vehicles excpt for my present one.After forty years of supporting N.A. car companies,I ran out of patience.Basically the big three make lousy cars and they did not stand behind their products in my situation.Whether profits go south or east make no difference to me.If we had a Canadian Co.,I might change my mind.For years we have been taken for granted by the Big 3.Yet when their profits go down,they come looking north for handouts.For too many years both federal and provincial govts.have succumbed.I hope they don’t get suckered in again.I’m not happy for workers losing their jobs-but I lost a lot of money during my forty years of owning and driving N.A. cars.When i complained about the poor products ,my words fell on deaf ears. The import I now drive is the best auto I have ever owned.If and when companies and workers take more pride and produce a better product maybe then people with my history might buy N.A. again.
“But second, even if no barriers existed, would they buy our gas guzzling, expensive, monster vehicles over their, more efficient, cheaper, smaller vehicles? I doubt it.”
————
Yes, for every 1 they buy they sell 361 to Canada.
There is no way in hell that anyone can build cars (or anything else) in Canada and hope to sell them to most Asian countries for profit. It just ain’t gonna happen.
Labour is highly trained here, but expensive, and companies face a staggeringly high burden when it comes to government reporting and compliance.
In short, if we’re to retain a vibrant manufacturing sector, and not import everything, then all governments need to work on an integrated strategy to raise productivity, increase innovation and get us back in the game for investment in plant and equipment.
One more thing: Let’s not make stupid trade deals with countries only too happy to flood our market with cheap goods. Like cars.
Garth,
And there we have the crux of reality. We have SKILLED workers, who are forced to live with this imaginary value system called ‘INFLATION’, who HAVE to earn wages that correlate with our ‘economic theory’.
So, using a theory that has shown itself to be flawed, why do we continue to use it?
Maybe we should blame Visa, Master Card, and all the ‘Buy now…Pay later’ schemes that keep people in debt, and needing more and more income. Are we NUTS? Yeah,. I think so…have for decades actually. Has fiscal reality taken a holiday? Yeppers!
Our infratructure is falling apart. We do not put money back into it, and we have those who think everyone lives just like they do. The wealthy are the biggest denier of reality on the one end, and the narcissitic uneducated on the other. The Middle class has been footing the bill TOO LONG!
We all blame each other, but then we are only acting like Parliament does…So NOT to worry, eh?
Simple lesson from childhood. Recall those bubbles you used to blow? Well, they all BURST! They are NO MORE! Nature is funny that way. Simple lessons right before our eyes, and still we fail to grasp reality.
What we MUST do is establish a sustainable economy, that also sustains people and this planet for generations, not mere 10 year cycles of Boom and BUST!
Garth
You article was a very good read until you starting blaming the Conservatives for all the countries ills. I guess you forget who has been in government for the past thirteen years. If Chretien and Martin had of put the economy in the shape the Liberls claim we would not be in this situation.
One more thing: Let’s not make stupid trade deals with countries only too happy to flood our market with cheap goods. ~Garth.
Gosh Garth, that’s two points in one day. Don’t worry too much about the car industry just yet. The government still has agriculture/horticulture as it’s fav. sacrificial lamb for these horrible unfair deals.
China, U.S., Peru, Mexico etc. keep slamming us with that cheap, forced labour, dirty crap every day. Canada is the ONLY country in the world that will allow traces of chemicals in and on food that we do not allow for production in Canada. I’ve told this story ad nausea, so I won’t go into it in detail now.
Let’s trash Free Trade and start working on Fair Trade! Sounds good to me.
Anyway, kudos on this one Garth. I concur. Leasa
No sympathy for the auto workers or their companies.
Their products stink,they have lousy brand management.The workers believe they should get paid high wages as long as they have a pulse.
Korea and Japan don’t put restrictive tarriffs on North American cars.The people are generally isolationists,the Americans can’t market their cars here in North America,so how would one expect them to market in Korea or Japan?
When it comes to Brand Management/Identification,we have driven
Corollas,Camrys,Maximas and Civics for 25/35 years.How long have we had the Pacifica or Magnum? Ford rebrands the Zephyr into the MXK and the 500 into the born again Taurus after a year.
Don’t blame the Loonie-Blame the dopes who manage GM,Ford and Chrysler and the slugs who build them.Honda and Toyota are expanding into Canada notwithstanding the rising Loonie.
And for God’s sake get rid of that Luddite,Buzz Hargrove.
I must agree that Garth is sounding like Buzz Hargrove in this one. There are two major problems. I would agree that the unions are one problem.
The other, and maybe even more important, is the corporate philosophy of the big three: “build it” and the marketers will “sell it.” This philosophy differed from the competition which has focused on what the customer might wants: quality, dependablity, good gas mileage, comfort, good service. Consumers were actually willing to pay more for those qualities.
The big three are a perfect example of how supply side economics can fail when their is strong competition giving the customer what they want. It is unfortunate that so many workers are affected but taxpayers should never be the ones to pay for the failure of a corporate philosophy.
Agree .. disagree ??
By Harry S on 11.01.07 6:29 pm
If you’re saying the government shouldn’t throw maoney at industries for the sake of throwing money at them, I’ll agree.
But if you’re saying a government shouldn’t do its job of leveling the playing field so that foreign companies don’t have an unfair advantage because of subsidies or protectionist rules from their governments, including the US, I disagree.
Mr. Turner,
I’ll have to disagree with you on this one. Your position did upset me and took me by surprise. A real conservative is for free trade.
I was born in a communist country, so I can smell the stench of socialism from miles away.
Free trade with Korea means that made in Ontario Hondas and Toyotas would be sold in Seoul.
And if they’re good enough, Korean cars will be sold here even cheaper. The consumer, the average Canadian will benefit.
And please stop sounding like Buzz.
You bring back ugly memories from my visits to some of the Big 3 plants: drunk or drugged workers who could barely stand up, beer bottles scattered throughout the parking lot, hidden mattresses and beds where workers would slip while on the job, people swiping in and jumping the fence back to the bar only to come back just in time to swipe out, the arrogance of high-school dropouts making $150k/year, sabotage of the equipment as a payback, the “it’s not my job†prevalent attitude, the ass-covering and backstabbing as rules of life…
Yeah, Buzz is right. These people would never be able to make cars as good and as cheap as the Koreans.
But I see no reason why we, the rest of us, should pay for keeping them “employedâ€.
Maybe the Canadian government should stay out of subsidizing large industries, and only offer lower corporation taxes as an incentive to locate production in Canada.
Agree .. disagree ??
By Harry S on 11.01.07 6:29 pm
AGREE! Big Time! These friggin’ multinationals thonk the world is their oyster. I think we need to get self-sufficient and tell them to ‘Schuck Off!’
Buzz’s buzz was STUPID, but then that is typical of Buzz…the Hired Mouthpiece. Overpaid, undereducated.
Chrysler waws smart to drop the Pacifica and the Magnum. They are throwbacks to the ’60′s station wagons. But they now are producing a Viper RAm Pickup. This monster gas guzzler has 600 HP and never passes a gas sytion. The people buying them claim they need thre power for hauling. It hink it is more a case of needing apenile implant. LOL
Dodge has also introduyced the 2.4 L, 285 HP Turbo Charged Caliber SRT. Yeah, like we need that much horsepower…NOT Neat vehicle, but way out of date for today’s reality.
Interestingly, we bought a new 2007 Caliber SXT last October (2006) and love it.
It took about 10,000 kms before things broke in and the advertised fuel economy started showing up as reality. That is not a bad sign.
I checked last week on price drops, thinking about trading in the 2007 on a 2008, but there have not been any. Maybe, we will luck out and know when the timing is right to trade it in before its mileage gets past the magick point. I doubt that will happen. But if the new one costs thousands less, then with the investment made (a depreciating sum actually other than 2006 vs current currency values), we may drop our monthly payments some.
Chrysler needs to deal with their pricing in a most serious way, or start giving a three year supply of K-Y Jelly with each vehicle. LOL
Back to Buzz…He and his entourage of ‘Poor me’s’ have been raking in the dough for decades.
Something is seriously wrong when a line worker makes more than a graduate engineer working for the Big Pee! Been there, done that…Never again.
Agree .. disagree ??
By Harry S on 11.01.07 6:29 pm
Addendum..
So in this case, do the Japanese and Korean’s subsidise their car makers?
Do the Japanese and Korean’s engage in making the playing field unfair with protectionist measures?
If the answer to these is no, which seems to be the consensus so far, then the issue is within the North American manufacturers and they, not the tax payer, need to fix their own problems.
As to tax incentives? Drop all of them and let’s all get real about our fair share for multi-billion dollar corporations who can easily justify paying their CEO’s 100′s of millions in salaries and Golden Parachutes. No one, and I mean NO ONE needs that level of income. What a farce.
Also, want to gain special favours to come to Canada? Then sign a 30 year agreement, and require a 3 year notification for pullout. We need to stop being cheap street hookers. Add to that a substantial deposit to be held in escrow should the company fail, or be mismanaged leaving the workers screwed.
Get TOUGH and get real. We have SKILLED labour here, well educated for the most part, and not willing to work for Third World slave wages.
Want crappy quality? Go to Mexico and get ripped off by their government of corruption run on graft.
Off topic, Garth I was wondering if the Speaker of the House, gets to take part in Liberal caucus meetings or does he just go like an independent.
He ceases to be a party member when elected Speaker. — Garth
Another thing that most don’t think about when discussing our good old GST, is where does the money come from so we consumers can pay this tax, or any other tax for that matter?? From income sources i.e. pay cheques.
Gotta pay more tax, gotta get more pay. Simple as that. This wage cost is transferred directly to the price of the Canadian made product or service. Products manufactured in countries that don’t have these high taxation rates, have an inherent subsidy. This can only be evened out with tariffs and duties etc. and if it is, we still pay through the nose but a large slice of the profit goes elsewhere.
Too much Civil Service logic in this country. Paying taxes is good for you.
As far as the great big wages that auto workers get, in the range of $26 to $31/hr on av, for plant workers. Live in Oshawa or Brampton on less than that if you can. What’s the average property tax cost? $3,000 per year or more??
Here is a coming alternative, your choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F06LjugtIUo
Yup, they need to buck up. Maybe their slumping sales will send them the message, but don’t blame the plant workers. They only build what the company tells them to.
Let’s trash Free Trade and start working on Fair Trade! Sounds good to me.
By Leasa on 11.01.07 8:00 pm
Agreed, Leasa. Six months’ written notice is all that is required to get out of NAFTA by any of the three countries involved.
After that, negotiate (as you say) a Fair Trade Deal. It probably won’t happen, but it’s a good thought.
One more thing: apparently, layoffs in the US are a lot larger than here — one site said “. . . the Pentagon and WH will have recruiters out in droves to snare those laid-off workers, so the new soldiers can replace the ones who aren’t coming back”.
Speaks volumes for American foreign policy.
What was the pathetic reason now for throwing out MPTV? Seemed to me like they were doing a fine job of getting information. Is that no longer allowed under this government?
What a joke.
The government has been trying for some time to shut down MPtv, through various means which have been mentioned on this blog. Harassing and ejecting my camera guy when he is not with me is one of the favourite tactics for trying to discourage and humiliate us. It ain’t working. — Garth
When my husband and I retired, we sold our Ford Sable and bought a Camry 6. I felt a bit guilty not buying another Canadian built car but after I read how a number of North American manufacturers had decided to skip one layer of paint (or maybe it was a primer or base coat) and so many of these cars (including ours) peeled, I felt justified. We found, also, that we spent so much less on maintenance that the bit more we spent on a two-year-old model (Toyoto cars hold their price better too) was worth the extra. I have a Corolla too and am just as pleased with it.
While I believe the auto manufacturers in Canada enjoy an advantage in that they don’t have to pay health insurance premiums of a size that is required in the U.S., it seems reasonable to even up competitiveness when absolutely necessary to keep these jobs and related industry jobs here in Canada. However, there has to be a limit even here because, while I really feel sorry for the laid-off workers and their families, it is the short-sighted, obtuse executive officers and decision makers who decide what kind of cars they will make — do they consider sustainability, safety, quality and durability? Or do they just try to push speed and macho image in their ads and try to get away with the biggest profits they can make? The don’t build loyalty this way obviously because there comes a time
when a man realizes he doesn’t need this macho image; he just has to be real and reasonable and looks for a good investment.
I really wish we could have our own Canadian-owned car, like the Zenn, maybe. Now that might be something we’d all buy a piece of! (Darn dangling prep. – oh, well! As Winston Churchill said, “This is a situation up with which I will not put!”)
Too bad they don’t sell small shareholder lots of shares to Canadians
to start our own industry–but then again, we’d have to buy our steel from the U.S. now. Or maybe there is a new, tough resin that doesn’t pollute in the manufacturing process that could replace steel….or, again, maybe I’m being very naive. But, Hope is free!
Further info. on the housing meltown in the US (the UK is also experiencing the same thing, and Canada will sooner or later follow suit).
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Foreclosure_filings_soar_in_3rd_qua_11012007.html
Well, this neo-con knuckle dragging cave person and the clan only buy North American cars (for decades now)…. so maybe the enlightened liberal and social justice lefties should look at their buying habits and blame themselves for their union brethren demise.
Please excuse me for posting totally off topic.
The media are using a quote from Stephen Harper that they claim reveals that he has flip-flopped on the issue of allowing ridings to control their own nomination process. Since the quote is taken out of context it is difficult to evaluate it but it reads as follows:
“We want to clean up internal party politics, beginning with grassroots democratic control of the nomination process.”
Harper is a master of saying something in such a way that it will generally be mis-interpreted. This may be one of those verbal tricks. Read the quote carefully and see whether it could mean exactly the opposite of the interpretation the media are placing on it.
Hmmm this might also be a reason why South Koreans are not buy from the big three.
According to the KFSB’s survey covering 1,000 companies nationwide, their average daily wage as of the end of September stood at 32,107 won (US$26.70), up 9 percent from 29,445 last year.
By occupation, a general laborer receives 27,716 won, component assembler 29,373 won, food maker 28,302 won, electronics assembler 28,260 won, laborer wrapping goods 27,283 won, lathe operator 31,139 won, welder 38,704 won and tailor 28,809 won.
Completely Off Topic:
I think Canadians and Dion have come to the hill to fight on in the Harper government’s refusal to stand up for the rights of a convicted murderer sentenced to death in the US.
Canada’s new policy will allow “democratic” countries to kill any prisoner who has been tried and convicted.
Bring this sick, mutated and mindlessly murderous government down ASAP.
Lives hang in the balance.
The fewer CAW workers the better, the CAW has done nothing buy hurt the workers they represent.
C.B. Innes – now you are catching on – this guy is so slick a louse would not stick to him – he’s been doing this for some time now – and he means exactly what he says.
“Harper is a master of saying something in such a way that it will generally be mis-interpreted. This may be one of those verbal tricks. Read the quote carefully and see whether it could mean exactly the opposite of the interpretation the media are placing on it.” — C.B.INNES
Yes, completely in agreement with you on this one.
Can view the following video clip on him promising not to tax income trust and see if that can be misinterpreted? Thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mibZYpVPY
One more thing: Let’s not make stupid trade deals with countries only too happy to flood our market with cheap goods. Like cars.
Yeah. I hate it when cars are cheap! Screw the consumer! Let’s pay top dollar in order to keep those unionized autoworkers employed!
How is it that the Conservative Whip controls access to MPs of other parties? Sounds like Jay Hill’s on a power trip!
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Another fallow up story about ‘missing’
nukes, people dieing, and Bushes world war 3.
http://www.peoplefirstpolitics.com/those-very-strangely-missing-nukes/
Garth, while the loss is certainly bad, there’s more to the story.
on a sidenote: I came about most of the base info for this rant second-hand, third-hand actually, so if I’m wrong I’ll wear the egg.
Chrysler cut 1100 jobs from Brampton’s assembly plant today. Is this bad? Sure. Read any media and you’ll hear that, about how it will mean more jobs lost than just 1100, many many more spinoffs and such.
What I have failed to see anywhere, is that the third shift was only added in 2004. Demand in 2004 for the new cars coming out of Brampton was through the roof, more than likely because they were all new model cars. The solution then was to add the third shift (950 people roughly at that time). I used to live in Brampton, with connections to the planet. New hires for this third shift were told plainly that it was likely to last three years. After that they were unlikely to need it any longer. Why? Over the past three years as well, domestic car prices have gone through the floor. So at first, when all new, you can charge new price for the 300s and the Magnums. But then some people sell them for less. Then after that, more come out, and stocks start catching up to that first surge of demand. Then the lease vehicles start coming up for sale, and all of a sudden there’s a full market. Everyone that wanted a 300 or Magnum badly has one.
Come back to today, and the announcement. With a little bit of thought, and some research, this terrible, horrible announcement that has been blamed on Martin, Harper, the Dollar, Oil, Japan, Korea, the US, Chrysler and probably a few more I missed, is more likely just the natural evolution of the industry. GOOD JOB MEDIA AND POLITICIANS!
I think that all of the negative spin different posters try to place on a particular party for by-passing democracy in the nomination process is hypocrital because all parties have done it, and every party can determine what kind of candidates they want to represent the party in a democratic election. For example, I hear no complaints about Stephane Dion insisting that 1/3 of his candidates be women, nor should there be.
Let’s be evenhanded about this practice, and judge the candidates at election time without self-righteously and hypocritically pretending that “our” party would never by-pass nominations in electing a candidate.
Some candidates might be technically elected by the most delegates, but what I want to know is if those delegates are truly believers in what the party actually stands for, and did they purchase their own memberships freely and voluntarily?
Garth, you said:
One more thing: Let’s not make stupid trade deals with countries only too happy to flood our market with cheap goods. Like cars.
I suspect you are referring to the SKorean Kia and Hyundai cars. The Kia is cheap and crappy, but Hyundai’s are good quality now. Both are reasonably priced. Hyundai did try to manufacture cars in Quebec, but it failed.
Looking ahead, would you oppose the importation of the Chinese Cheery car which will be marketed through Chrysler dealers in N America??
What was the pathetic reason now for throwing out MPTV? Seemed to me like they were doing a fine job of getting information. Is that no longer allowed under this government?
What a joke.
The government has been trying for some time to shut down MPtv, through various means which have been mentioned on this blog. Harassing and ejecting my camera guy when he is not with me is one of the favourite tactics for trying to discourage and humiliate us. It ain’t working. — Garth
By SJ on 11.01.07 9:46 pm
I hope not. I Like having GTV on the scene.
When you gonna start a “News at 5″ segment for us all?
Oh and just a Q. Wouldnt it be possible to get a press pass some way or another so that you would be allowed to be there regardless? Or is that expensive/totally inconvenient?
Good Lord, if their is one God, where is he these days?
Harper and his coherts seem to be liars and are destroying our Canada, I’m confused withe the death penalty response that Stock blabbed about.
What do you think and please help me with this statement that Day made today.
I am truly concerned with their train of thoughts on Capital Punishment.
I know this is off topic; however, the Harper conservatives are pushing my buttons these days.
Sadly, his job is on the line. Telling the truth to Canadian taxpayers is just not acceptable. Is this the Layton idea for press for success.
The Liberals are doing the right thing these days.
What have the lAYTON NDP government and their MP’s stand for.
Interesting times ahead.
Dear VAN,
On the one hand you want Garth to be part of a team with a “Decisive Leader”. Which means that you want Garth to be part of a team that was WHIPPED to Abstain.
On the other hand you want Garth to be part of a team where each individual member â€acts like an Independent†making up their own mind on every issue, and especially Confidence issues. This means that you wanted Garth to voluntarily follow the direction of M. Dion (he gets the first opportunity in the Liberal Party to vote Yea, Nay, or Abstain).
So what do you care if the Liberal Party has a DECISIVE LEADER, or a LEADER WHO MOTIVATES VOLUNTARY followers. It seems like the Liberal Party led by Stephane Dion is everything that you are asking for in a Party and a Leader – Tax Cuts, Decisive Leadership, a Rock Solid TEAM.
Heck if Garth, “The Maverickâ€, is voting with Stephane Dion and the Liberals you KNOW they’re worth voting for.
So ENJOY THE TAX CUTS, that Jack and Gilles did not want you to have, that have been brought to you COURTESY OF STEPHANE DION.
And vote for a team with a DECISIVE MOTIVATING LEADER!!!
VOTE LIBERAL in the next election!!!
Sincerely,
MB
P.S. If you want to vote for an independent who has remained steadfastly devoted to his constituents first and his Party beliefs second in all matters that have come before the House in this session, you have two choices…
1. Bill Casey – Conservative
2. Garth Turner – Progressive Conservative
Wow….most if not all are sure hard on the Auto Worker, careful, ladies and gentlemen….you have failed the test in economics 101…. Profit…if all cars doubled their gas millage prices would have to rise twice as much to provide the profits for all the investors or they would move their funds that would get them profit. Same goes for part supplies…..and yes even you and I….GIC’s 4% at Bank A or GIC’s 8% at Bank B….hmm simple I know but true.
Now as Garth as mentioned to which most of us agree, a house on small lot in should not be worth 600K…but many are forced to buy it or well move to another planet. Transportation costs are going through the roof, and Smart Cars are not the answer, O/K a Honda gets good mileage, at 35 mpg @ but should fuel rise another 25% then another 35% from .95 to 1.18 to 1.48…you we will be screeming! You that line “Be careful what you ask for you just might get it” WELL! business is starting to lower it’s prices to US prices to compete against cross border shopping and intetnet sales…remember Mr. Know-it-all Flaherty saying this would happen….and laughed….well business people like the word “Profit” and yes you guessed it…”Canadians want American Prices perhhaps it is time they accepted American wages and benifits”….nah they would never do that…. Now as for import cars….think. stop look and listen, If 80% of goods are made in China and they are sold here without quality control and good prices….would cars not be the same once they have cornered the market…. Follow the money fokes…and please remember that word profit, and the bigger the better. Then again what do I know, but I do remember homes being made with top quality supplies fully finished and on time, with a good warranty for well under 200K.
Yes, it’s hard to find a good Japanese pick-up.
Hubba hubba how about that job report this morning!
I think that all of the negative spin different posters try to place on a particular party for by-passing democracy in the nomination process is hypocrital because all parties have done it, and every party can determine what kind of candidates they want to represent the party in a democratic election. For example, I hear no complaints about Stephane Dion insisting that 1/3 of his candidates be women, nor should there be.
Let’s be evenhanded about this practice, and judge the candidates at election time without self-righteously and hypocritically pretending that “our†party would never by-pass nominations in electing a candidate.
Some candidates might be technically elected by the most delegates, but what I want to know is if those delegates are truly believers in what the party actually stands for, and did they purchase their own memberships freely and voluntarily?
By Ike on 11.01.07 11:38 pm
What do you call it when non-aligned Canadians make these comments?
The attitude represented in the above comment enable political parties to act as centralized dictatorships. It is partisans themselves who allow democracy to be over-ridden. They are becoming too lazy to think for themselves and do the work necessary to find good candidates who will work for the people that elect them rather than the leader and the backroom.
When candidates are chosen that represent the values of the leader or party and not the values of the community that candidate is supposed to represent then the unaligned voter has no one to vote for.
You are correct in saying that all of the parties are eager to elect individuals who do not represent the values of their community. That is the problem that is created by a centralized overly hierarchical party system. When these individuals are selected because they don’t represent the values of a community voters say “there is no one to vote for.” I had a life-long Conservative tell me that they would probably not vote in the next election for that reason.
You have once again illustrated how political parties work to undermine democracy.
Good Lord, if their is one God, where is he these days?
By runnerdanchuk on 11.02.07 1:34 am
That would be the Judeo-Christian God who gave us all ‘An eye for eye and a tooth for a tooth’, and the Law of Blood Avenger? The same God in who’s name millions have been killed in senseless wars and battles for resources and greed, hatred, and all those nice human things?
Under the Law of the Blood Avenger a family was sworn to bring down those who hurt another family member. It was quite a serious deterrent actually. Kill someone’s family member in cold blood and the entire family would hunt the perp down and kill him or her.
I cannot wonder if we have become so ‘civilized’, so inert in justice, that we now see good where no good is present. Talk to some of these brutal criminals, these hot headed psychopaths, and the people in Corrections Canada, and spend some time visiting in a cell with these animals. Then ask yourself, with real total honesty…’What would I do?’
The Death Penalty has a purpose, and should be reserved for the most horrific of criminals, on that I have no doubt. I also know reality and it is not always rosey, pretty, and feel good. The object is to create an incentive that makes such animals stop and think, for most a new experience.
Bottom line…Animals who only undertand force cannot be rehabed into normal people unless they want to be. They are predators, and willfully harm others for pleasure or their own ego fulfillment.
As to the convicted murderer in question, I remember he killed two people. That he chose to do so. That he did so in a foreign country. The point being he committed a Capitol Offense, Murder, and did so in a democratic country where he received a fair trial.
He made a choice. We have no obligation to rescue him. I agree with the way Stockwell Day stated the issue. It has specifics to it, and I agree. It was not some generalized blanket policy like the MSM attempted to make it sound.
You can catch the rest of my view on the matter in ‘No Cowards Here’.
Opening up the markets of Japan, China or Korea would do little because we do not build what they want or need, and I doubt we could compete there with price either.
Creative destruction was in full force last night.
The median age was probably 30 at a new economy party in downtown Toronto. And the chocolate fountains and poutine stations were flowing.
The party had been planned months in advance of course, but I remarked that there was something perverse about the bloody gore in manufacturing.
People in the new economy work extremely hard, so I’m not trashing them. People in manufacturing work very hard. Not trashing them.
There are very, very large shifts in the economy going on right now, and the Canadian dollar is actually forcing out some very old industries.
Meanwhile – I’m drowning in work, both real and potential, and cannot find qualified people to fill those roles. In fact, the outlook for my specialty is good from my point of view, but horrible from an industry wide point of view.
We need to find a way to reduce structural unemployment quickly.
I’m very cognizant that in 10 years, my role will probably be heavily automated somehow (even though I can’t yet imagine how, I’m sure that’ll happen) so I need to really work hard today and keep on educating myself so that what’s happening to those union workers doesn’t happen to me.
But in terms of somehow ‘proping up’ unprofitable industries and full shielding people from market forces…I just can’t sign off on those policies.
I think the best thing that government can do is take concrete steps to reduce structural unemployment. The liberals were awesome at reducing frictional unemployment…but we’re going to need solid efforts on the other front.
And, yes, I’m sorry, but people will have to move away from the rust belt. You have to go where the jobs are. The rule just doesn’t apply to Maritimers.
“Hubba hubba how about that job report this morning!” — By Gary V
———
You should read the detail of the job report.
Most of the jobs created are government services job relating to the recent election in Ontario. The report also said job lost in the manufacturing and trade sector.
I guess the federal govt will be next to replace the next round of job loss in the manufacturing and trade sector?
And, yes, I’m sorry, but people will have to move away from the rust belt. You have to go where the jobs are. The rule just doesn’t apply to Maritimers.
By LoH_Numa on 11.02.07 9:38 am
I did that back in 1982 when the American Rust Belt went dead.
The economy was dead, and not expected to recover, and it really has never returned to the level prior to the 1980 Credit Control Act that sent interest rates to the stratosphere.
I guess the federal govt will be next to replace the next round of job loss in the manufacturing and trade sector?
By Larry on 11.02.07 10:43 am
That reminds me…Did the Federal government ever ACTUALLY cut those 41,000 jobs they were saying they would?
And, yes, I’m sorry, but people will have to move away from the rust belt. You have to go where the jobs are. The rule just doesn’t apply to Maritimers.
By LoH_Numa on 11.02.07 9:38 am
I totally disagree with you. As someone who has lived through all the prejudice against the Maritimes I have learned an important lesson. Trying to shore up inefficient and declining industries does not work and creates more problems than it solves because it interferes with adaptation to new opportunities.
Simply telling people to leave their homes, communities, extended family, and friends merely reflects the callousness of neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism.
Where will they go? The Alberta economy cannot absorb the Ontario population. Will they willing go to work in areas of the world where they will be expected to work for subsistence wages even if the countries in question would permit such migrations?
Ontario needs to look forward to a new vision not remain mired in the past.
Just recently I saw a mini-documentary on the problems Canadian electric car companies are having getting permission to sell their products in Canada. They are apparently not considered to be safe enough to share the highways with 18-wheelers although they are designed for urban transportation. Yet the adaptation of cities to electric cars would have a positive environmental impact.
Ontario is still a wealthy enough province to start an economic transition that would ensure that its people could retain its communities instead of abandoning them for perceived “greener pastures.”
Garth, do you still think Canada needs an interest rate cut? Isn’t the job of the BoC to make decisions with Canada as a whole in mind. We have record low unemployment and high oil prices. Would a cut in interest not be infationary and head our country in the wrong direction? While jobs are being lost in Ontario, the west can’t find enough workers. If the BoC works for Canada and not Ontario I can’t see interest rates coming down soon.
Bill-Muskoka: Good on you for picking up stakes and following opportunity. It’s not easy is it?
C.B. Innes wrote:
“Simply telling people to leave their homes, communities, extended family, and friends merely reflects the callousness of neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism.”
I was merely 12 when Chretien said “You have to go where the jobs are” — and the remark, as I remembered it, was directed at Maritimers. And indeed – at the age of 12, I had experienced, what I thought was an 8 year recession.
To imply that somehow Ontarians are exempt solely because they’re Ontarians is intensely hypocritical.
Folks, I still agree with Chretien.
Economies change. People need to change with them.
I’ve been pretty clear in that I advocate government initiatives that reduce structural unemployment. As I see it, there are policies in place that reinforce structural unemployment.
I find these policies are based around this mystical “right” that people have to earn a rich living regardless where they reside. It just doesn’t work that way.
Are there different industries that might work for specific communities? Sure, maybe. Why not.
But if those industries don’t get started, then the residents pretty much need to relocate. We already have Northern Quebec and rural Atlantic Canada — I’m not sure just how more weight I really want to carry.
Doesn’t seem fair for anybody, does it?
“I was merely 12 when Chretien said “You have to go where the jobs are†— and the remark, as I remembered it, was directed at Maritimers. And indeed – at the age of 12, I had experienced, what I thought was an 8 year recession.”
What Chretien said was merely political grandstanding. At that time there were no jobs. I remember Maritimes who took retraining and went to Ontario looking for work being told to go home there was not enough jobs for the current residents. Was it not at that time that Ralph Klein offered tickets out of Alberta for the unemployed?
What he was doing was making excuses for cutting spending on the backs of those provinces that at the time could least afford it. It is easy for partisans to be sold a bill of goods because they will readily believe the spin.
Oh my, our terrible economy is just too much for so many…BUT the truth is that Canada is finally getting the respect we deserve for actually managing this country.
Loonie tops $1.07 US on strong job growth
The Canadian economy added 63,000 jobs in October, pushing the jobless rate down 0.1 of a percentage point to 5.8 per cent — a 33-year low.
This is NOT the result of Harper, it is the result of Canadians, all the political parties past actions, business people with foresight, instead of hindsight, and it is long overdue that canada got the world’s respect for running our finances in a sane manner.
That reminds me…Did the Federal government ever ACTUALLY cut those 41,000 jobs they were saying they would?
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.02.07 11:11 am
Billy, why don’t you be a dear and provide us with a link?
Why don’t you be a dear and provide us with a link?
By Catherine on 11.02.07 8:33 pm
Institute cautions prudence with shared services
The Globe and Mail said the move could eventually eliminate 41,000 public sector jobs and save Canadian taxpayers $4 billion a year.
There you go Cathy. Like most issues the MSM blurps things out, then forgets anything akin to followup. I believe there was some action which resulted in the new Service Canada replacing numerous other agencies.