A theme of the Town Hall meeting in Thornhill last night was the degradation of politics. One elderly woman who refused to take off her camel hair coat in the cool air of the community centre said it most clearly.
The constant bickering is not what we want you to do in Parliament. Yes, I know this is a minority, but why can’t you people just sit down and do the things that are best for the country? Why can’t you work together? Have you lost your way?
Susan Kadis, the local MP, and I shared a glance and a smirk. Obviously this woman did not understand the poisonous atmosphere in Ottawa these days, we thought privately. How can there be cooperation in the midst of a war zone? What charming naiveté. Hadn’t she seen the latest Dion-is-not-a-leader commercial?
And yet the comments posted here to my last article, the one about Liberals chasing Brian Mulroney, have had me thinking all day. Sadly I must report to you that the coated lady is right. We’re blowing it.
The Mulroney pant is one example. Allegations he accepted $300,000 from a shady German businessman have been all mixed up with the Airbus affair, in which he was found blameless. Timelines have been blurred, facts blunted and motives impugned. If the former PM did over an associate in a private deal after he left office, then how is that the business of the state, or its Parliament?
But that’s not the point. I’m not here to defend Brian Mulroney. He’s got killer lawyers. They can do it.
Rather the belief by some of my colleagues, and by senior Liberal warhorses, that going after a former Conservative prime minister is good politics, is very disappointing. It does nothing for Canada, for the problems of our citizens, or to build a better country for the young. It’s merely intended to do damage to the enemy. The politics of negativity.
The same can be said of almost all you hear in QP, by the way. MPs who have questions with the potential to wound, embarrass, humiliate, diminish or ridicule the government, get airtime. Scandals and outrages, especially when a single member of the party opposite can be demolished, are cherished. In strategy meetings, the talk always turns to how blood may be drawn today.
The other guys, of course, are just as mindlessly Machiavellian. The governing party has spent millions trying to shred Stephane Dion, from claiming he’s incapable of being a leader, to incessantly flip-flopping, to suggesting in a war between Canada and France, he’d be wearing a beret and armed with a croissant. Not a day goes by that prickish PVL does not work in a reference to Adscam, or tell Parliament he’s astonished the member from Halton has not yet resigned.
And, sadly, MPs along with the media and the whole bunch of Hill hangers, are only too ready to toss overboard anyone who suddenly fails the smell test. I mean, have you heard any innocent-until-proven-guilty defences of Blair Wilson lately?
Each day QP is full of allegations of impropriety on the part of elected politicians and their teams. Members stand and thunder in the hope they’ll be scrummed afterwards and the MSM will trumpet their charges. Once their assault is in print or on TV, well, blood has been drawn. Mission accomplished. A good day.
Or is it?
This session of Parliament has been sitting for three weeks. In the dozen Question Periods which have taken place – almost ten hours of talking – you’d be hard pressed to find more than a few references to the climate change disaster, the horrible effects of the high dollar on manufacturing or what $100-a-barrel oil might do to Canadian families. Nobody’s talking about the deteriorating US economy, our slumping competitiveness, no child care spaces or the national savings rate of zero.
But we sure know that John Baird had lunch with some bozo he shouldn’t have, or that Conservative candidates bent election laws, or that Brian Mulroney is greedy.
That stuff might matter in Ottawa. But in Milton?
I think my constituents would rather know we all have a plan to ensure the American real estate meltdown does not infect their homes. They’d like to know enough infrastructure money will flow to widen clogged regional roads. Working families want family income-splitting. Retired couples want income security. Everybody wants more scanners at the hospital. And somebody needs to tell us they’ve got a strategy to stop the songbirds from disappearing on the Escarpment.
Until then, I can’t disagree. We have lost our way.
201 comments ↓
It is not our politicians who are lost, it is the voters who have lost their way.
Ah, and ’tis the night to remember.
Remember, remember the Fifth of November, The Gunpowder Treason and Plot, I know of no reason
Why Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, t’was his intent
To blow up King and Parli’ment.
Three-score barrels of powder below
To prove old England’s overthrow;
By God’s providence he was catch’d
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, let the bells ring.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, God save the King!
And Canada!
“Nobody’s talking about the deteriorating US economy, our slumping competitiveness, no child care spaces or the national savings rate of zero…”
posted by Garth Turner on 11.05.07 @ 10:22 pm
Nobody in the House is talking about these things Garth, but a large number of posters on this blog are!!! And we have directly accessible source material that can be scrutinized and evaluated and added to by others.
A truly collaborative democracy, this blog is.
Sincerely,
MB
And the history for your Enlightenment!
Guy Fawkes
I think that minority governments ought to operate in a non partisan manner. The voters elected people to represent the area in parliament, not to represent the party in parliament. I know that set election dates are not binding to opposition parties to respect, but I feel things could work better with the dates followed. Our city has party representation but we have elections every 4 years. Our potholes get fixed and parks get mowed with that kind of system. The minority system is now on its third try and it has resulted in elections every 2 years that achieve virtually nothing different then the previous governments. Might be worth a try, or we can hope for a spring election bringing us to 4 different governments since 2004
do the things that are best for the country?
Cynically he said, “What is the first duty of an MP the day after his election”? Quickly, came the reply: “Start working on the re-election campaign”
Sadly, in most cases it is not what is the best for country, it is what is best for the government party to be re-elected.
One is incredibly naive if one believes that MP’s have pure hearts and altruistic purposes.
It would be nice if they did…but of course, those kind of people would never get elected; Canadian voters will not elect anyone bearing bad news.
Sadly, in most cases it is not what is the best for country, it is what is best for the government party to be re-elected.
By Ed Brooks on 11.05.07 10:58 pm
Agree Ed, but have you ever seen it this bad, I haven’t. And, I blame it on the cons and the Speaker of the House. The cons never answer a question – just come back with an answer that says the Libs did it before so we have the right to do it now. Its become a playground child scenario. What ever happened to all Stevie’s sermons of accountability, transparency, grass routes & family values. Yeah, doubt he’d let his children watch his part in the HoC farce. I blame the CRAP party.
Another good post Garth! ( Except for the “prickish”reference.)
BTW,why aren’t we talking about what has happened in Pakistan this weekend and how its going to effect our troops in Afganistan. Alls very quiet on this topic.
Apparently, Mulroney when he got the 1.2 million from the Cretien government, had lied under oath. He stated he neve knew Shreiber. He did.
RIGHT ON GARTH!!!! EXACTLY RIGHT!!!!
I know I have been very critical of Dion and the Liberal leadership, it is not because I don’t like the guy. It is exactly because I think like you, he has the potential to be better than all of this. Dion is not performing well because he is listening to the strategists and not his heart. I saw his response to the throne speech, and it was horrible and tortured because it was clear he did not believe with the very fabric of his being that he was doing what was right, but instead what was expected of him.
If Lib MPs are fearful of an election and are not willing to represent the values that put them into power, then they don’t deserve their seats to begin with. All of you have to believe. Believe in yourselves. Believe in your voters. Believe in what you hold true. Without fearless belief you will all be defeated and no clever maneuvering can save you.
Harper is a much more brilliant strategist and Machiavellian than all of you combined. So just like many failed warriors before you, you are letting your enemy fight with you on his terms. The secret weapon you have is that Dion and members like you are the antithesis to the real politic that surrounds you. Use that and be the plain spoken fearless idealists with some pragmatic economic sense and you will win. Garth, Canadians are already with you on the issues you talk about and the positions you present. Your leadership needs to get there. I don’t know if it can.
The forces of Machiavellian thinking among the leadership are destroying Dion and burying his idealism, honesty, and conviction. He has clouded himself with the darkness of fear and complicated conviction-less thinking. The forces of back room dealing and cynicism did not make him the leader of the party against all odds. The simple and true man that could look in the mirror and know who he was and listen to his heart did.
If Dion is willing to be what he has always believed in and can fire all the strategist and party elites, call the election and let the cards fall where they do, then fear will go where it belongs – the government. The opposition needs to present itself fearlessly with real power and authority. If the Libs show some brass balls then maybe the electorate will get excited and push the gold coins your way.
There, my lone rant in the wilderness is over.
You know Garth, what really pisses me off about all this shit… It’s not a hard fix. The solution to this, at least in your party, is so utterly simple it is smacking you in the face every bloody day.
Smarten up. Ask the REAL questions that matter to Canadians. Show us what you can do for us. Stop the bickering. Stop the name calling and yelling.
Grow up and show Canadians what a real governing party looks like.
Why can’t you and your ilk get down to business and ask the very questions you have stated. Who cares what the answers are, let the cons be the bitches. Let them look like the fools. That’s what they do best!
Be polite, be courteous, be about the people and not about the politics. I’m pretty sure this will go in one ear and out the other, but come on. It’s not rocket science here. If you are looking to clean up the bloody place then be the first to stand up and be the bigger men.
We are all waiting for someone, some PARTY to show us that we have not lost our way in our government.
How hard is it to stick with the questions that matter most to Canadians? If you don’t get an answer in QP, you ask it again. And not with a snide retort. A simple repeat of the question.
Perhaps you will see the media, other parties, or SOMEone following along, getting on the bandwagon to drive this country in the correct direction.
No more jeering, no more hissing, booing, yelling, screaming BITCHING. No more.
I think you guys up there on parliament hill might be SHOCKED at the outcome. I know we as Canadians would be shocked to see you people being civil.
How hard can it really be?
Garth, let’s get our facts straight and let’s have some reality.
The Harper Conservatives were quiet while the Liberals were searching for their next leader, and when the convention delegates selected Stephane Dion, the mostly Liberal MSM were crowing that the level of political debate would rise dramatically because Dion was an ‘intellect’. Remember ??
I was shocked when I listened to Dion as he was interviewed that very day on CBC … so what did he say to enhance political debate?
The first words that Dion uttered about Harper were: “.. right-wing, neoconservative, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq,and not representing Canadian values!!” … and that’s what Dion has been incessantly repeating every time he was interviewed on public TV or by the print media. Because he was the great Liberal leader he arrogantly thought he could define PM Harper in those insulting terms. He was wrong.
Dion was spewing insults against PM Harper, as if Harper were some kind of traitor to Canada .. and I distinctly remember the venom coming out of Dion’s mouth within 24 hours of him being elected Liberal leader. So much for intellect … and several months later the CPC broadcast their defence with their attack ads defining Dion … and only using his own words and the words of other Liberals to define him..
Dion has never uttered a significant political position without attaching his personal attacks against PM Harper, The Conservative party is only going over the heads of the Liberal-biased MSM to deliver their message about Dion directly to Canadians.
That lil’ ol’ lady in Milton would drop her britches if she truly understood how degenerate her beloved Liberals have become under the leadership of desperate Dion. You and I both know that the Liberal party cannot continue to abstain in the hope of avoiding the inevitable election that must now happen in the next several months.
Dion tried to defeat PM Harper with his nastiness after being selected Liberal leader, and now he soon must face Canadians in a general election, if the Liberal party will allow that to happen since your leader is less popular than the party he leads.
Dion has been a great disappointment as Liberal leader, and that is something you cannot deny. Canadians will not follow a leader who depends on negativity to drag down his opponent to his lowly level. And the result is seen in Quebec where Liberal support is receding badly.
Yes, Liberals have lost their way because you do not have a legitimate leader, only an academic political wannabe who has exceeded his level of incompetence.
You and the other Liberal MPs are really blowing it with your continued faith in your failed leader. The Liberal party is now represented by a menage of voices, opinions, personalities, but you have no coherent message, no messenger, no leader.
Please don’t blame Harper or the Conservative party for broadcasting all those attack ads on Dion, because Dion asked for it the moment he was selected leader and decided he must slag Harper mercilessly, disgracefully. Just think what might have been if Dion had chosen the high road, and slowly developed his leadership by building a positive message … just think of the opportunity lost because Dion was incompetent and had no vision for the Liberal party or Canada.
He is not a leader .. find a leader and stop whining about the Harper Conservative government. If Liberals dare precipitate an election with Dion, save yourself in Halton.
Until then, I can’t disagree. We have lost our way.
http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/roussy-border071105.mov
“Canadian shoppers have flocked across border crossings into the U.S. since late September, when the Canadian dollar reached parity with the U.S. greenback for the first time in almost 31 years. The dollar has continued to rise, closing at above $1.07 on Monday.
In a news segment recently aired on Buffalo’s WGRZ-TV, the station said Canadian shoppers have raised the region’s sales tax revenue by five per cent.”
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/11/05/bus-shoppers.html
Voices: Cross-border shopping
Toronto Star, Canada – 1 Nov 2007
I still have not seen any major pricing cuts to clothing, which is why most people go cross-border shopping. Until retailers get a clue on cutting prices on …
http://www.thestar.com/Speakout/Voices/article/272676
Flaherty to Toronto: Find your own cash
National Post, Canada – 5 hours ago
Can’t help auto sector, Flaherty says of job cuts Toronto Star
Income trusts one year later
Canada.com, Canada – 27 Oct 2007
Indeed, the so-called tax leakage was supposed to be one of the reasons Flaherty pulled the plug on income trusts, a business arrangement that had been …
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=680330e6-ae7b-4aa9-8f06-cba3ddb8064f
Seriously, I don’t think the current government gives a rat’s ass! OR, MORE TO THE POINT, THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY’RE DOING.
You sound like someone on the verge of retirement, and about to enter the wild world of Canadian media.
Regarding Brian Mulroney …
It’s NOT JUST the $300,000 OR the $2.1 Million libel settlement … What about the $20 Million ‘GREASE FUND’ which Mr. Schreiber made reference to as part of the Airbus deal?
Granted, hob-nobbing around various European and N.A. capitals is expensive, BUT, a large passel of the $20 Million must have found its way into a lot of political bank accounts.
Why is Switzerland so PI$$ED with the Germans over being forced to disclose information on SECRET BANK ACCOUNTS?
Most know these figures, but this shows that dubya is not fully responsible for America’s decline.
However, there is no doubt that he is a major contributing factor to America’s and its’ allies current decline, with fake wars based on double-speak, lies and nothing else.
http://rense.com/general79/sink.htm
http://www.star28.net/penguin_tebe.swf?msg=Mulroney%20was%20a%20back%20slider!
In Ohio, cities can now buy homes which have been foreclosed for $1.00, but I seem to recall that in Phoenix, thousands of homes are sitting empty.
Stick with Ohio — it’s closer to water!
http://www.newsnet5.com/money/14508725/detail.html
Dear Garth:
I hope you can get that message through to everyone in Ottawa. People are tired of the attacks. I went for a walk with an old friend this morning, a caring and giving person, who surprised me with her utter cynicism and hopelessness for politics in Canada. I talked to her about hope that we can move beyond partisanship and move forward by supporting good ideas and people wherever we find them. I want to fight an election based on vision and ideals — not who needs to be “punished” the most.
Thanks for giving us a forum for our voices.
Hard to work together when the government seeks to undermine you at every chance, and doesn’t want to work with you…and the NDP is engaging in the same crap colluding with the CPC to try to bring ruin to the LPC.
The sad irony is that despite all that is going on, it appears that the LPC is the only party that is willing to work for a functioning parliament. They are allowing the CPC to implement their policies as long as they are not totally unjustifiable (e.g. people can argue the relative merits of dropping the GST, but everyone agrees that an income tax cut is good policy) and getting pummelled by the MSM for it.
I think the biggest danger right now is Layton. Someone’s got to tell him how much of an idiot he is being. What the hell has gotten into him and the NDP? Preventing the “mini-budget” from being read in the House and allowing it to be debated by claiming that they had no time to peruse it? And now calling for a referendum on abolition of the Senate with the support of Harper?
Layton and Harper are cut from the same diseased cloth and Canada will die because of them. Time to set the sights on Layton.
Austin
Sadly, I’ve given up on Question Period. I know it’s mostly for show, but it’s supposed to (I think) give viewers an idea of the main issues of the day. It’s pretty bitter and seems like a waste of time.
I wish there was a rule that stated that questionees *had* to answer questions. I get tired of hearing three questions “answer” three questions.
But then again, if I didn’t complain about this, I’d complain about something else. Complainin’ just makes me feel big.
AND, your FAQ for today is:
If me and the missus each earned $40 thousand a year, which would benefit us most … A GST cut? … or turning the equivalent GST cut into an income tax reduction?
Yeppirs, you won the phantom Turkey. [Place a picture of Flaherty Turkey here] You see, it’s not so much that Flim Flam Dim Jim Flaherty can’t think straight … It’s more the fact that neither he nor Harper think at all.
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2007/11/06/4634244-sun.php
greg.weston@tor.sunpub.com
Great post, Garth. Perhaps you can get the Liberal machine to shift its focus somewhat. I feel a bit differently about the in and out scheme, as I think we have to know what the federal spending ceilings are for the next election (the CPC position would leave this up to the individual parties to decide).
Garth, hang in this is much the same everywhere Canada is no different. The point is Garth even if we had our act to-gether look at world. We are fighting over the oil and rich and powerful are making billions in the process.
Canada does not have one person in the the Billionare’s Club…..
There are 257 poeple who rule this world and if they parted with 10% of their wealth not one person on the fact of the earth would go hungry!
Another fact less that 4% of world’s population can put their hand into their pocket and pull out any spare change.
To-day G&M, your old Boss is shouting Senate Reform….hello……….hello.
The US is going down the tubes
Pakistan is close to Taliban Rule
Afghanistan is a disaster
Iraq is has been bombed into the stone age with no end in sight
Turkey is about to sent 100,000 troops into Northen Iraq and set up house
Russia is stalking about another “Cold War”
China is slowly taking over the world, they have a 1.5 Tillion dollar surplus and it’s growning daily
Mexico is slowly taking over the US and predicted to do so by 2040, as their birth rate is 4.2-1.01 plus thousands crossing the border daily
Now we can list what PMSH’s Harper’s priorities are…….
DAM SENATE REFORM…and Dion bashing!
So Garth you do have a heavy load. When all is said and done more has been done in this country with a Liberal Goverment in power as was with Bill Clinton in the 90’s…were we happy who knows, but things were much better than what is going on now….and that is a fact…..your choice, if you truly want Neo Con rule by Force, and think that bombing people into democracy is the answer then vote for dictatorship, and we can see and hear about another million or so innocent men, women and children killed….even Saddam did not do what is being done as we speak this morning….
My son’s junior kindergarden class behaves better than most MPs in Question Period!
In my opinion, the cameras should be removed from the House of Commons. Kids will be kids when being photographed.
If the cameras are not to be removed, I believe that they should be allowed to offer Canadians a panoramic view of our ‘honourable’ members. All of the wise cracks and slurs, off camera, may prove to be embarrassing when the MP returns to his constituency.
Chrétien aide casts doubt on $2M Mulroney deal
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/273916
OTTAWA–Federal government lawyers likely would not have recommended a $2 million payout to Brian Mulroney had they known about his financial dealings with Karlheinz Schreiber, says Eddie Goldenberg, Jean Chrétien’s former top adviser.
“Knowing then what we know now, I would doubt that the department of justice would have recommended a settlement and frankly I would doubt that the government of the day, the minister of justice of the day, would have agreed to that recommendation,” he said in an interview.
Chrétien was the prime minister who signed off on the cash settlement with Mulroney in January 1997.
American dollar still sinking, Canadian dollar up to $1.0801 USD
I’m not sure the exact quote but it goes something like: The people who drink champagne cannot make decisions for the people who eat Kraft dinner
The gist of it is that MP’s are overpaid and can’t relate to the problems of the average family. If they were paid the average then they’d be worrying about how to pay for daycare or be kept up at night wondering if another point in their mortgage’s interest rate will bust their budget. If gas prices go through the roof, no fear because you’ll be able to afford it.
In a transcript of an examination for discovery held in 1996, Mulroney was asked a question about Schreiber and replied, “I had never had any dealings with him.”
But it was later revealed that the former prime minister had received $300,000 from Schreiber. He says he had sought Mulroney’s help launching a chain of pasta restaurants and on behalf of a German-based company that wanted to set up an armament plant in Quebec.
But Goldenberg, who was Chrétien’s senior policy adviser at the time, suggested the prime minister was in the dark about the extent of Mulroney’s dealings with Schreiber, a fact he says that might have changed the government’s willingness to offer a settlement.
Last week, the CBC’s fifth estate and The Globe and Mail reported that Mulroney delayed paying taxes on the $300,000 he got from Schreiber.
STILL NO MENTION OF THE $20 MILLION ‘GREASE FUND’ FOR THE AIRBUS PURCHASE.
Before I turned on the computer this morning I was thinking on a similar line to this.
Partisanship and power plays override the welfare of Canada and Canadians. The leaders and their demand for absolute power has over-powered commonsense.
This morning the media are reporting that the Conservatives and the NDP are planning to band together to pass legislation for a referendum to abolish the Senate. The question I have is: What will replace it? If nothing replaces it another check and balance in the system will disappear.
It is no wonder that autocrats like Harper and Layton would seek a system in which the Prime Minister is all powerful. Voters have tried to put people like this on a short leash through minorities but obviously the federal parties prefer partisan fools to intelligent statesmen and women.
If we are going to reform the system lets do it right.
Well, Garth, you are in a good position to assess the motives of Liberal warhorses and senior leaders. However, for some of us it is a desire to be shown that “Caesar’s wife” is above suspicion.
A businessman with a track record of bribery may have spent years in Canada spreading corporate cash around for consideration, or is private altruism now a feature of business? Some of that cash found its way into the hands of one PM/MP who thought it necessary to keep the matter under the table. I want to know whether this was for past or future considerations, and whether Schreiber’s money found its way into other official hands.
I can live with the possibility that a private Mulroney was stinging a FUTURE partner. What I have a hard time accepting is the possibility that the whole scheme of Schreiber’s business efforts in Canada is of no interest to serving politicians.
If they don’t want to be seen to be above suspicion, they should not wonder that they might be considered to be whores.
Hey Garth et all, it is pretty sad that only the negative is making news in the MSM these days. But hey, does that also tell us that it isn’t just politicians in Ottawa and the media who’ve gone astray, but also the country as a whole.
I mean, our current system of government debates back to the 18th-19th century. I mean, this is the 21st century, and yet so little has changed about how we are governed. You know, wouldn’t it be cool if Canada run more like the EU (an idea my sister brought up last night after summer), with each Provincial Premier taking turns heading the government for 6 months, adding up to 5 years in total, or even 5 1/2 years, if the three territories (Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut) where to have a joint term.
In this way, the provinces would have more power over how Ottawa is governed, and under this system, every Provincial Premier would have a shot at running the Federal Gov’t for 6 months. And seeing as these Premiers would still be busy with the Provincial Government, there’d be an incentive for them to have a more ‘decentralized’ form of governing, during which Cabinet Ministers are ACTUALLY considered equal in power to the rotating position of PM.
And also, the province of NL in its 50+ years in Canada has NEVER had a single Supreme Court of Canada Judge to rule on cases in the highest court of the land. Also, joint management of the fisheries, and either joint management of immigration between the Gov’t of Canada and the NL Prov. Gov’t and/or transferring control of Immigration to NL to the NL Prov. Gov’t is a must.
After all, Quebec can adapt its own immigration policy. I mean, if it works for Quebec, it’d definitely work for ‘the sister province’,NL. In many ways, both Quebec and NL have felt neglected by Ottawa. The main difference? Quebec got organized in the 50’s, had “The Quiet Revolution” in the 60’s and 70’s, referendum in the 80’s, the BQ from the 80’s to the present, and so much accommodation.
So yes, Senate Reform is a must, but I think the ideal model would be for Equal representation of provinces (10 seats for each) and 2 seats for each territory, for a total of 106 seats. Then, the PM should allow the provinces 3 options for the selection of Senators: 1) Direct Senate elections by the people of that province (what the West and some NLers like), 2) allowing Provincial Premiers to appoint Senators (something Quebec has wanted since the 1960’s) or 3) basing seat distribution after province on the popular vote of political parties in the most recent provincial election in that province.
In this way, the Senate would serve as the protector of small provinces, while the HofC continues to look out for the bigger ones more. Also, this would allow “more power for the provinces”, leading to a stronger Canada, and a stronger NL!
“This morning the media are reporting that the Conservatives and the NDP are planning to band together to pass legislation for a referendum to abolish the Senate. The question I have is: What will replace it? If nothing replaces it another check and balance in the system will disappear.”
Indeed, where then is the ability to restrain ANY majority govenment (or “prickish” minority)from ill concieved or self serving legeslation. Reform yes, abolish never.
I agree with the lady in the camel hair coat.
After all, she was talking about the weird liberal tactic of crying in the corner, screaming like babies, and disagreeing with everybody and everything.
I doubt though that Garth and other liberals got her message so I read between the lines and wrote them down.
1 – The lady in the coat is not frightened of Harper. She does not believe he is evil. She is sick and tired of liberals pushing that issue.
2 – She does not believe that Harper has anything to do with Bush. She does not believe that Harper is at all Republican.
3 – She wants leadership from her party. Not crying. She want her liberals to stand up and be counted.
1. Partisanship and power plays override the welfare of Canada and Canadians. The leaders and their demand for absolute power has over-powered common sense. Absolutely!..
2.This morning the media are reporting that the Conservatives and the NDP are planning to band together to pass legislation for a referendum to abolish the Senate. I thought it would be an interesting irony if we could abolish the Dippers and gnu CPC … We already have that instrument. It’s called voting.
A very honest and poignant post.
This is the Garth we all used to know and love.
As always a thoughtful and thought-rpovoking blog entry Garth. Reading the comments on your blog, I can’t help but feel sick and tired of the constant toxic spin planted by these misguided professional political operatives meant to confuse and cause doubt in our minds. Probably less talk is in order because pictures often say more than words:
http://videofreedom.blogspot.com/
Sadly, I’ve given up on Question Period. I know it’s mostly for show, but it’s supposed to (I think) give viewers an idea of the main issues of the day. It’s pretty bitter and seems like a waste of time.
I wish there was a rule that stated that questionees *had* to answer questions. I get tired of hearing three questions “answer†three questions. (forgot who posted this, but I agree).
If we are going to reform the system lets do it right.
By C. B. Innes on 11.06.07 7:29 am
QP needs to be reformed. If an intelligent question is asked (not a “baiting” question) then the public deserves an intelligent answer.
While I find QP frustrating to watch, it does reveal a lot about some of the MPs, particularly PVL (and John Baird, but he has been noticeably absent of late).
The Conservative Party members, for the most part, come off as arrogant and uncaring, and few demonstrate that they have an original thought (an unscripted response).
Perhaps if more people watched QP, less people would support the Conservatives (although 34% is nothing to brag about).
A glimmer of hope.
A reformed question period.
Sit down till silence reigns.
Questions phrased for yes or no answers.
No leading questions allowing for negative replies.
S. Dion or M. Ignatieff do not ask questions unless they know it will be answered by Prime Minister.
Can all questions be directed to a specific person? (not sure of parliamentary procedures).
Start recruiting MSM reporters who are unbiased and report in various media.
Encourage other MPs to start up blogs.
Cameras give a panoramic view of all mps.
It looks like the NDP likes the idea of Senate reform as much as Harper does.
The NDP will soon introduce a bill, recommending a 2009 referendum on the idea of abolishing, or at least drastically changing, the Senate.
The Harper Conservatives are ALL going to vote with the NDP, leaving the liberals and Dion on the wrong side of the ball, in lala land again.
Hmmmm, The NDP is looking a lot like the official opposition these days.
This is great for Canada. Our unelected Senate is currently a pompous bunch of partisan twits. They serve their master, the Liberal party and they do not serve us. They hold up legislation for their own partisan reasons.
I look forward to hearing how Dion will defend his pompous partisan friends. I am sure he will, as liberals love to reward each other and are self serving to the end.
Goodbye Pompous Senate – - – G.P.S.
All we ever hear about is
Question Period and what transpires during this time. It seems that its format is very limiting… no time for good diaologue. However, in Hansard one can read of good exchanges and debate in depth during most of the time that the House is in session. Are people generally, as I had been, unaware of this? Because it is a more indepth consideration of a matter, there are no splashy sound-bites or quips to focus on for the media. Perhaps more attention should be drawn to this aspect of parliament and it would raise the perception of parliamentarians. Question period seems totally different from the rest of the day’s session, and yet that is all we hear about.
Smarten up. Ask the REAL questions that matter to Canadians. …
By SJ on 11.05.07 11:54 pm
Precisely. If question period is a mess, you can only blame the people asking the questions.
Ask an intelligent question and you’ll get an intelligent answer.
Indeed, where then is the ability to restrain ANY majority govenment (or “prickish†minority)from ill concieved or self serving legeslation. Reform yes, abolish never.
By rural on 11.06.07 7:50 am
did we see any restraint when the LPC was in power?
A Must Read
http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush/
EDITORIAL
TheStar.com | comment | Harper’s gutter tactics
Nov 06, 2007 04:30 AM
How low will Prime Minister Stephen Harper go to score cheap and dirty political points against his opponents?
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/273746
Both sides of the house are equally guilty. So be it.
I don’t expect the opposition to rise above what’s left of the political climate on The Hill because that would be a double standard and I certainly don’t expect the government to change tactics they are confident are working for them.
The dear lady in the camel hair coat makes a good point but its quite moot. That’s just the way it adds up. Moralizing about it borders on escapism.
EDITORIAL
TheStar.com | comment | Harper blurs Canada’s global image
Harper blurs Canada’s global image
Nov 03, 2007 04:30 AM
Gordon Barthos
Canadians used to be known as big supporters of the United Nations, peacekeepers and advocates of arms control and human rights. In theory, we also championed the environment and foreign aid.
But in big ways and small, Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives are blurring that image, shrinking from past principles and erasing the lines that differentiate us from, say, our American friends.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/273132
It works, a fact I consider worth keeping in mind when I hear about the precious democracy “our troops” are fighting for.
Forget the Senate. We should abolish any party that exists for no other reason than to split from Canada.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071106.wsenate06/BNStory/National/home
By KPN on 11.05.07 11:22 pm
Have I ever seen it this bad?
Actually, I attended QP live for the first time this past Thursday and was quite amused for the experience.
In answer to your question, I don’t think it is much different from any other time. My earliest recollection was the Liberal Rat Pack: Nunziata, Copps, Tobin, and Boudria, who launched visious attacks on the Government. In one remarkable incident I remember seeing pictures of an MP attempting to climb over his desk to get at a member on the other side.
QP is political theater in the extreme. The opposition is trying to find a “Gotcha” that they can nail the government with and attract media attention.
As far as responding to questions are concerned, it’s called Question Period, right? If answers were expected, it would be called Answer Period, wouldn’t it? Most of the questions are of the “Have you stopped beating your wife?” variety.
Some of the most vicious QP’s were when Chretien was PM. Quite often his responses to questions were highly personal attacks on opposition members. Chretien was the qunitessential bully.
As a snapshot of how a Parliamentary Democracy works, QP is probably the last thing you should look at.
Naturally I applaud 99% of your posting.
The little old lady is really right.
Garth, could you ask the Liberal Warhorses — “Is going after Mulroney really where the Median Voter is?”
The Median Voter, The “Centre”, where the Liberal Leadership has always traditionally been (See Young and her survey of party members), is not interested in rehashing Mulroney any more than they’re interested in going after Old Man MacDonald for the Pacific Railroad Affair. Either effort would bring about the exact same result.
The Median Canadian cares about getting it on. They’re worried about Harper’s Power, and they want it checked. They want neither party to damage Canada, because frankly, they’re not trusting either party right now.
The Median Canadian is disgusted with Conservatives shoving attack ads in their face during their favourite shows – OUTSIDE OF AN ELECTION!
As for capacity infrastructure for regional roads –
it’s just bad policy. If the money will go towards increasing safety on those roads, then at least that would reduce death. But strictly speaking, there shouldn’t be more auto intensive development unless its sustainable. (And I’m still not convinced that it’s sustainable.)
The question I have is: What will replace it? If nothing replaces it another check and balance in the system will disappear.
For many, many years I have wondered at the value of the Senate.
In it’s current form, I believe it serves virtually no useful purpose. It has been a rubber stamp for Liberal governments and obstructionist for Conservative governments, based on the sheer number of senators appointed by Liberal governments.
In fact, it got so bad that Mulroney had to use extraordinary measures to overcome obstruction on the GST by a group of Liberal Senators who attempted to thwart the will of the elected Commons.
If the Senate can’t be ‘fixed’, it should be abolished. I really can’t remember any time that it has actually worked as a non-partisan “check and balance”.
Perhaps, if we don’t have the Senate as a check and balance that becomes the media’s role. And by that I mean all media, not just the MSM.
In the 19th and early 20th centuries there was no immediacy to communications. An effective Senate would have more of a purpose to slow an obstreperous government down. Now with ‘news’ available to us moments after it happens, I think there are better ‘checks and balances’ available to us.
kip (11.06.07 8:24 am),
If you read Hazard you may find some good ideas. However, watch CPAC and you will notice that virtually no one is listening. When a backbench member of Parliament speaks in a debate the chamber is virtually empty. A few members are required to be there.
Parliament, which means “talking,” is nothing more than people talking to an empty room. The speech will be put on record for a few of us political junkies to read but that is as far as it goes. It is nothing more than empty rhetoric.
I don’t know whether even those speeches are vetted by the PMO or other party leaders but I suspect they are.
The Median Canadian is disgusted with Conservatives shoving attack ads in their face during their favourite shows – OUTSIDE OF AN ELECTION!
I think most Canadians don’t give a rat’s ass about anything that happens in the HoC, hence the basic disinterest in politics and the low voter turnout at elections.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, the Liberals have a huge uphill struggle to unseat this government. Canada is essentially firing on all cylinders right now: the economy is strong, unemployment is low.
We have a habit of only replacing governments who have made us really really angry. Liberals are trying to find something that will raise the anger level, hence the assault on Mulroney this week. Again, our voting tends to show that as opposed to electing a new government, we really ‘de-elect’ a government that has upset us.
The Conservative’s are sitting in the catbird’s seat at the moment, which is very frustrating to the Liberals.
How low will Prime Minister Stephen Harper go to score cheap and dirty political points against his opponents?
Yes, it seems that our Dear Leader is more concerned with keeping his butt in the Big Chair than moving Canada forward on any number of fronts. Watching the new attack ads, apparently effective according to some media pundits, is like watching a school yard bully at work. QP ranks right up there, as well. Canadians deserve better. We are tired of the politics of negativity, Garth, as you so correctly pointed out in today’s column.
Mr. Dion needs to rise above the fray. He also needs to tell Canadians that the reason Steve has so much money to throw around is because of the Liberals’ good financial management over their terms in office.
Garth,
What is your opinion on Senate reform.
Asked and answered. — Garth
I am always shocked/surprised when I see Layton siding against the Liberals for one reason or another. In my opinion, the absolutely best course for the country right now would be for the NDP and Libs to join forces, and become a New Liberal-Dem Party, or some such, thereby getting rid of the Con ideal altogether, (plainly outlined in an earlier link supplied by one of today’s posters – “A Must Read”)
Garth, what is the possibility of this ‘party merger’ ever happening? (and producing a very handy Majority at that, hopefully)
Garth,
Where is your answer on your opinion of Senate reform.
What am I? Your librarian? In a few words, reform it or disband it. — Garth
Hmmmm, The NDP is looking a lot like the official opposition these days.
Goodbye Pompous Senate – - – G.P.S.
By Milton man on 11.06.07 8:23 am
Or is that the NDP is now looking more like a government suck up on this issue?
Both parties will vote for the referendum, seemingly voting for the same thing. But the Cons, as always, only look to the surface.
The NDP want the Senate gone..period, no chance of reform according to what I’ve heard Mr. Layton say, because its obsolete.
The PM on the other hand wanted an elected senate, he wanted it to be more democratic. Now that the Lib dominated senate is “obstructing” his agenda, he probably wants it gone.
Maybe an elected senate is the way to go, elected at a different time to the general election, like mid terms. That way, we, the voters, can pass judgement on the direction of a government before the next general election is called by voting in a senate of opposite political stripe, ensuring political checks and balances are in place.
I couldn’t agree with you more! Be the hero to change the tone and substance. We need leaders who do more than play political games. Maybe we need 50 Independants who can sway the balance of power. I also agee with the first comment that voters need to smarten up and not just become a distorted partisan who simply fuels and inflames the nonsense of parliament.
By Sue on 11.06.07 9:41 am
Sue,
Don`t be shocked that the NDP on occasion work with the Conservatives. They are simply doing their job. They will never join the Libs. Their goal is to become the official opposition and squeeze out the Libs.
As well, the NDP do not hold the huge amount of anger and bitterness that is so in-trenched in liberals right now. This has made the liberals virtually dysfunctional and totally ineffective. This is also resulting in poor decision making by Dion, IE, verbal thoughts about raising the GST.
In summary. Why would the NDP grab onto a steel ship that is sinking fast.
Harper keeps bubble gum on his cracks of his policies and their effects and the bubble gum is starting to break away and that’s why he’s in a hurry for an election and why the ridiculously stupid latest attack ad on Dion:
A portion of Greg Watson’s article:
“For instance, consider an average family with each spouse earning $40,000 a year.
Based on StatsCan household spending figures, our sample family will save around $320 annually from the latest reduction in the GST.
But the same couple would have saved a whopping $1,103 a year if Canadian income taxes had been cut by the same amount it is costing to reduce the GST.
The only way they could save that much from a 1% cut in the federal sales tax is if they spent $110,300 a year on consumer goods — $30,300 more than the family’s combined gross annual income.”
Harper has conducted a taxpayer paid poll about the death sentence.
Gary Lunn has been seen to be in conflict of interest with lobbyists according to the Auditor General.
Josee Verner is in trouble regarding her husband’s ad agency.
John Baird is under investigation in connection with the bribery issue and the mayor of Ottawa.
Harper has hand picked a new president of the CBC – will this mean Harper will be in control of investigative journalism of the CBC?
Harper is secretary changing rules and is controlling everything inside Ottawa.
Harper is a bully – bullying is a form of terrorism. It’s a method used to coerce and control – just look in any dictionary.
We could go on – but why are Canadians asleep at the wheel here?
Lana,
If you watched QP three or four years ago, it was just as disgusting as it is now. The Cons are just as disgusting as the Libs were. Yes I was hoping for better, but maybe this is all we can expect from QP. Baited questions, and arrogant non answers. Libs or Cons, there is no difference. I like someone’s comment that maybe we should stop televising QP, but I think we should just get rid of it. Anything else would be more productive. Just don’t delude yourself into thinking any of the other parties are any different.
Kerry Busse
All right, Garth, let’s ignore the Mulroney factor.
How would you expect this dysfunctional Parliament to address, much less solve, problems such as climate change, oil prices and hyper-dollar? Do you expect Harper to produce the right answers? If not, what is the Loyal Opposition going to do about it? Or do we roll along in neutral until the Liberals have hauled themselves out of the electoral swamp by the bootstraps, however long that might take?
We needed an election to put these issues to the voter. The LPC denied us that. Now what?
Your comment about Mulroney ” Allegations he accepted $300,000 from a shady German businessman” is nonsense and an attempt on your part to obfuscate the issue and also to try and involve the Harper government in the affair. Mulroney has admitted to the CRA he received 3 hundred thousand dollars so this is not an alleged payment any longer.
Mulroney’s misdeeds have nothing to do with Harper and his government by any stretch of the imagination. The fact is if any government has to share blame it is the previous Liberal government under whose watch the investigation was botched and incompetent. Now it is up to the justice system in our democratic society to deal with this issue and it shouldn’t be about Liberals trying to make this a political issue if they want to be responsible politicians and gain some respect.
Leave the Senate alone..it isn’t broken and it is effective and it has served us well. Greater minds than mine had/haver great respect for it in its present form. For example, Eugene Forsey comes to mind. I know that it sticks in the craw of the cons and the Jack who should stay in his box. Howevwer, tampering with it now would cause more grief and divisiveness than its worth.
Stoem clouds are gathering on the Canadian horizon. This is a time when true leadershp with real vision is required. The cons would have us all marching to the beat of different drummers. The destruction of the IT sector and the cut in GST are the thin edge in the wedge of the agenda that the cons have in store for Canada. Probably no more than a dozen people know the real con agenda. The cons see real parlimentary debate and the senate as nusinances that must be elimated in order for them to succeed. They care not for the Canadian people as awhole but for an elite few. They are nattering Nabobs of negativism.
Garth, many of those who actually care about politics will watch QP and not just the few minutes shown on CTV “News” at 11. You say PVL takes too many questions. Ask the hard ones that have no easy answer, like why were literacy programs cut? why was the women’s program cut? You may also want to talk to the speaker so that he imposes some order. I think I’ll write to him too, and if he doesn’t do anything, I will label him incompetent and unworthy of the job. If it were up to me, there wouldn’t be many MPs left in the house to answer questions.
I don’t know whether even those speeches are vetted by the PMO or other party leaders but I suspect they are.
C.B.,
They all practice QP in advance of the daily event. Questions are all considered, topics chosen, they even practice the hootin’ and hollerin’.
As far as being a near empty room, I know that one isn’t a representative sample, but when my wife and I were there on Thursday, I think more than 50% of the MP’s were there.
Harper-hating Liberals on this fine forum don’t understand your message because they are too consumed in their hatreds.
Dion is their leader, and they grasp at straws to maintain their hatred and hope that Harper will somehow fail, but it is Dion who has failed and they dredge in their cesspools.
Lead the Liberal party, Garth, lead the Liberal party.
“You and I both know that the Liberal party cannot continue to abstain…”
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
Did I read that word ABSTAIN?
YESsss… 5% GST!!! You’re welcome Canada – Courtesy of Stephane Dion and the Liberal ABSTENTION
Sincerely,
MB
How is the smartest guy in the room and his bully boys helping out here….from a newspaper in the small central interior town of Burns Lake, BC:
http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_north/lakesdistrictnews/news/10876106.html
This will effect us all, methinks.
Ed Brooks on 11.06.07 10:14 am,
Were you there for question period or general debate?
Must be a Republican
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/071105/K110506AU.html
Corrupt politicians are the scum of the earth. Just take a look at Jim Flaherty and all his made on Wall Street and “No Corporation left behind polices” to shaft Canadians. I can think of at least five. Buzz Hargrove can think of two. How many can you think of?
I beg to differ Garth. Getting the facts behind Brian Mulroney’s cash payments does in no way preclude pursuing the nation’s agenda. Who knows, maybe these were legitimate payments for services rendered. Maybe all he was guilty of was an attempt to avoid paying the dreaded 7% GST tax that Brian himself brought into effect. That would make Brian no different than probably 50% of the building trades. That wouldn’t make Brain a hypocrite would it? Better a hypocrite than a corrupt politician.
Harper sure liked the Senate when he needed them to win his election didn’t he – remember he promised Canadians that they were safe to elect him because the Senate would keep him in line.
Garth,
If the senate was abolished and Harper had a majority – could he change the laws on the death penalty?
Perhaps every MP should be fined when they don’t act properly in QP and don’t answer questions and put that taxpayer money back into the koffers.
First I have to say you disappointed me over the Mulroney affair because there is definately something wrong with the sequence of events. 1) Mr Mulroney went to court to recover his legal costs because he said he didn’t do business with Schriber but 2) He paid income tax on the said 300,000 well after he had recieved the 2.100,000 from the the taxpayers, Conclusion either he committed perjury and therefore was not entitled to compensation and should pay it back to the taxpayers with interest or he committed fraud and should be fined I think 2.100,000 would be a nice round figure. Garth you let your loyalities get in the way of common sence.
Now about this new marriage in hell between Jack Layton and Stephen Harper
do we now agree with gay marriage?
Both these leaders don’t care about Canada the just want “own way” this time tthey both seem to agree that the senate should go BUT what if PMSH decides to bring back the death penalty or that our soldiers should help his good friend GWB in Iraq where then would be the “checks and balances ” that Mr Harper spoke of. A last question when is Jack Layton going to cross the floor and join his partner?
MB
If we have the Liberals to thank for this GST reduction, THANKS ALOT for the IT changes.
I like your reasoning. Keep telling yourself that and someday you will believe it.
KB
SLG says,
- Harper is a bully – bullying is a form of terrorism. -
Your a nut SLG.
Bullying is not a form of terrorism. Are school kids terrorists, is Chretien a terrorist, are you a terrorist….
You belong in a straight jacket you crazy extremest. Oh, sorry, I don`t want to be a terrorist….. you nut.
Ed,
Detailed analysis of the CES has revealed that Canadians do not credit the government in power for a strong economy, rather, they credit themselves. When an economy tanks, then they blame the government.
Which is perfectly rational and Canadian when you really think about it.
I think the Conservatives are opening up a new front with this whole senate thing.
Conservatives generally hate being accountable for anything they do. One only needs to look at “Pass the Buck” Harper for an example of that. This is especially true in Alberta, where the Central Canadian is scapegoated for everything that goes wrong.
I’m afraid that Layton is playing into Harper’s hands here on the Senate. In a way, a lot of the fake debate around bills getting stalled was a return to the Alberta Conservative line of “The Central Canadian holding us dowwwwn”.
The abolition of the Senate, which a majority of Ontarians and Atlantic Canadians will never vote for, is yet another way to create a ‘us versus them’ fight.
It’s going to be the next major font of Western Social Conservative Hatred towards their fellow Canadians.
Were you there for question period or general debate?
We arrived about 20 minutes before QP started and stayed until about 20 minutes after.
Harper-hating Liberals on this fine forum don’t understand your message because they are too consumed in their hatreds.
“Hello, Pot?” “Yes, Kettle?”
And to be fair to all aggrieved parties, the Liberal haters who dwell here are so blinded by their hatred of everything associated with the Liberal party, that they are willing to tolerate and turn a blind eye to anything that the Conservatives say or do that resembles Liberal actions.
They shrug their shoulders, say “Liberals did it, so what’s the big deal?” and toss off another insult.
There are double standards on both sides of these partisan issues and not much tolerance for differing points of view.
So, what else is new?
Garth, in the cold light of the next day, you’re right, of course.
It isn’t so much that Mulroney may or may not have gotten away with something, it was that infuriating dare that Harper threw down about investigating Liberal PM’s that set me off.
It really is a small matter in the big scheme of things you mention, and most definitely not worthy of the attention of Liberal MPs. Neither, I might add, is the NDP’s red herring Senate Reform proposal at this point…
Anyway, I did feel better after venting yesterday, so thanks for providing this outlet for all of us.
Dear Mr. Turner, you seem to forget that the last Liberal government was defeated on the basis of ‘criminal investigation’ of Mr. Goodale by RCMP, which later turned out to be baseless. Even today, the Conservatives throw back ‘corruption’ of Liberals each time any question were asked. Are you suggesting that the Liberals sit and accept, ‘yes, we are corrupt, and the Conservatives are clean, clean, clean. Why, we never heard the former Conservative Prime minister accepted envelopes of $100,000 cash in hotel rooms. We deserve to be pounded another 20 years and the Conservatives deserve to be ruling Canada because they are so CLEAN’.
Anyway, seems that the press is finally stepping up…
EDITORIAL
Harper’s gutter tactics
Nov 06, 2007 04:30 AM
How low will Prime Minister Stephen Harper go to score cheap and dirty political points against his opponents?
http://tinyurl.com/3a8vg5
The war atmosphere in the House of Commons is created and fed by the Government benches, led by a Prime Minister who does not respect compromise and honest debate, the building blocks of democracy. Evidence of the truth of that has been in the debacle of shutting down debate in parliamentary committes, the tyranical party control of nominations against the democratic grassroots wishes, attempts to prevent the Senate from doing the due oversight of legislation which is their role, attacking the judiciary and the Charter of Rights still on Conservative websites, circumventing Parliament with Executive Privilege in important matters such as our world wide stance against capital punishment, etc. etc. etc.
MP Pierre Polievre described the importance of putting ads attacking Dion on American televised football games as that they would reach the ordinary guy relaxing with a beer. An insult to Canadians’ intelligence! That sums up their approach – it’s the dumbing down of Canadian politics to match the model south of the border. No wonder they can’t attract enough women voters. They repel men that think and do not have knee-jerk reactions to such issues as capital punishment, “The War on Terror’, etc.
I do not like attack ads but I fantasize about that TV commercial in a car dealership in which an underling is made to quote the motto on the wall in the office of the boss: Mercy is for the weak. Think of the goldmine of possibilities in the behaviour of this Government for opposition attaack ads!
Big oil’s big day
By HUGH MACKENZIE
Tue. Nov 6 – 6:44 AM
These are pretty exciting times for Canada’s oil patch.
Crude oil prices are at record highs, and show no signs of declining. Most of its current production is either conventional or from the oil sands, both at historic costs that are far below current price levels. The oil industry’s success in limiting Canada’s refining capacity has paid off massively, quietly generating super-profits in the refining and distribution end of the business.
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Letters/976854.html
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
Well said Harry. I could not agree more. Dion is a misguided, petty little man who is full of hate.
Interesting (i.e. stupid) news about the NDP’s move to abolish the senate. Harper is going ahead with the idea of a referendum on abolishing the senate. Since it requires a constitutional amendment involving the consent of 7 of the ten provinces with 60% or more of the population, we can all be assured that it will never happen.
I have an idea – lets have a referendum on abolishing winter. It will be about as effective.
Hey, lookey there. HJ and HS are agreeing with themself. Amazing. Nothing like being your own Devil’s Advocate.
It was your new “Party” that started all this Garth. Back in 2004 they fired the first shot suggesting Harper wanted to close abortion clinics (a lie). Harper then returned fire with the child porn charge (which was over the top as well). In 2006 it was Harper was a fascist who would send soldiers into our streets. Harper concentrated mostly on policy that time and the Liberals were caught flat footed. Now Harper is hitting back big time in a real mean way. So..You reap what you sow.
I’ll bet if the last 2 election campaigns were a little more “CIVIL”, we wouldn’t be in this mess today.
I have an idea – lets have a referendum on abolishing winter. It will be about as effective.
By Elias on 11.06.07 12:01 pm
I could support that motion, but I know the snowmobile, sking, and ice fishing lobbies would rise in unmitigated angst against it. LOL
personally, I think Canada should annex that little Caribbean island that wants to be part of Canada. Then we who want warmth can all go there with being deigned ‘Tourorists’ by some wacko Homeland Security computer list.
BTW, great buys on Snowbird homes in Phoenix right now! Just make sure you have an approved bulletproof vest, Kevlar helmet, and camos, desert camo’s that is.
Night vision goggles are highly recommended as well so you can safely go out to dinner and the convenience store at night.
Interesting (i.e. stupid) news about the NDP’s move to abolish the senate. Harper is going ahead with the idea of a referendum on abolishing the senate. Since it requires a constitutional amendment involving the consent of 7 of the ten provinces with 60% or more of the population, we can all be assured that it will never happen.
I have an idea – lets have a referendum on abolishing winter. It will be about as effective.
By Elias on 11.06.07 12:01 pm
Elias,
If you’re a Premier who just saw your entire province vote 80% in favor of abolishing the Senate, would you simply ignore that? Any Premier that does that is dead whenever the next election comes around.
It will pass and the Premiers will have no choice but to obey public opinion.
By Good Grief on 11.06.07 11:32 am
oops…sorry, didn’t notice it had already been referenced by several posters – just too gobsmacked by the article…
Looks like Harper is planning for a election next year.
I originally thought the gaffe fed to a reporter but then a remembered who made the gaffe an realized he wasn’t that smart.
…………………………….
The quote:
In Castlegar, Harper put out the call for more Tory blue in B.C., even getting a bit ahead of himself in asking voters to support their local Tory candidate at the polls “next year.”
He quickly corrected himself to say “next time.”
…………………………….
Canadian Press
Elias – Ontario, Manitoba, Sask, and BC have already gone on record saying they would abolish tyhe senate. I don’t think Alberta and Quebec would be too far behind.
…Please don’t blame Harper or the Conservative party for broadcasting all those attack ads on Dion, because Dion asked for it the moment he was selected leader and decided he must slag Harper mercilessly, disgracefully. Just think what might have been if Dion had chosen the high road, and slowly developed his leadership by building a positive message …
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
Come on Harry, the exact same thing can be said of Harper. If indeed Dion did start the slagfest(debatable), why didn’t Harper rise above it and refuse to engage? Instead he has brought spite and meanness to a new level never seen before in Canadian politics. ALL parties are responsible for this disgraceful behaviour we are witnessing. You need to give up your partisan chirping on behalf of your beloved Cons and recognize that no one is blameless. Your very comments are symbolic of the negativity that pervades the CPC. You cleverly managed to turn Garth’s post into a derogatory rant against Dion, without any provocation I might add. You represent what is wrong with the CPC.
The Canadian people have the government they deserve. It’s likely not the one they wanted, but when only 60% of the population comes out to vote, there is ample opportunity for the wrong person to get elected, as we are witnessing. Short of legislating citizens to vote, I’m not sure how we can encourage people to perform their civic duty, especially when all we witness are our elected officials continually behaving badly in parliament. None-the-less, those that feel voting is important should do everything they can to get friends, family, and neighbours out to vote.
Garth, you’ve highlighted a problem with your post. My question to you now is “What are you going to do to try to correct the situation?” I know you are but one man, feisty and tenacious as you may be, and it is unreasonable to expect you to be able effect such daunting changes. But can you not begin by encouraging your fellow MPs and your party Leader to bring some civility and integrity back into the House of Commons? Canadians are adrift on a sea of change that is happening at a rapid pace – from climate change, to economic upheaval, from intensifying wars over oil and other scarce resources, to potential global medical emergencies – and our current captain is more interested in defaming his opponents and selling our sovereignty to outside interests than he is of grabbing hold of the tiller and steering this country safely through the impending storms. It won’t be long before Canadians realise that PMSH is not the man we need leading this country and will be ready to elect a new leader. Will the Liberals be ready to step up to the challenge, win the election and change the face of Parliament from the school yard shenanigans we are witnessing today, into a productive atmosphere where the buisiness of effectively running this country is paramount over petty politics?
Halton John: You are “a misguided, petty little man who is full of hate”.
Do our wallets a favour. Get a job, pay some taxes and get your snout out of the public trough.
Cheers
http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2006/fireandice/fireandice.asp
A balanced approach to the climate change issue.
Elias,
Actually, when you factor in Chretien’s 1995 Bill with the Five Region Veto, the only province without an effective veto is either Saskatchewan or Manitoba, depending on which way it goes.
The provinces of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia both agreed that they won’t approve a referendum without the support of Prince Edwards Island and Newfoundland.
BC has a veto. Ontario has a veto. Quebec has a veto.
Alberta would need one of Manitoba or Saskatchewan to vote with it, but Alberta effectively has a veto.
In short, the 7/50 rule no longer applies. The 9/60 rule effectively applies.
What are the chances of New Brunswick/Nova Scotia giving up the 24 seats it came into Confederation with? Not bloody likely.
(In fact, it’s the Senate Rule that keeps giving PEI 4 seats, and NB 10 seats…no province can have fewer seats in the HoC than it does in the Senate.)
In reality, the Referendum is DOA, but you know, Layton will appear democratic for awhile.
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
Well said Harry. I could not agree more. You and I are misguided, petty little men who are full of hate.
By Haltonjohn on 11.06.07 11:49 am
I have never seen so many liberals and wannabies with no Balls to standup and be accounted for but to sit comfortable and collect our money and let a wannabe dictator decide we have no life after voting or wants to destroy a senate which is the little guys watchdog as our voices seemingly do not matter anymore.
Please go out and find some responsible people in this vast and wonderful land with the BALLS to stand up and take it back and not handing it over to a dictator who like Bush and Mulroney wished to give away soveriegnty for a piece of gold like the Judas’ they are,
Oh to have a man like Trudeau back again to set this ship back on an even keel or someone like yourself Garth who appears to have his head out of the sand and above water.
May we get this righted before things are too late and we are in anarchy along with the rest of the world states which are there already or proceeding to that end very fast.
God bless and Good Night as a very good person called Red Skeleton said afer every show.
Ed Brooks on 11.06.07 10:56 am,
My understanding is that the parties try to have members available for Question Period as much as possible. The remainder of the time attendance is minimal.
Like you I am not sure that the House of Commons around Question Period provides a good example of general attendance.
Interesting how some like to define terrorism. Bullies are Terrorists in the most meaningful way.
Terrorism
Here is a form, quite commonly used by Bullies everywhere.
Non-Political Terrorism – Terrorism that is not aimed at political purposes but which exhibits “conscious design to create and maintain high degree of fear for coercive purposes, but the end is individual or collective gain rather than the achievement of a political objective.â€
Let us remember that ‘politcal’ measn to persuade or force another to conform to one’s viewpoints.
Religion has been the most adept at this technique for the longest. ‘If you don;t beleive, oir do, what God said, then you will…’ pick your consequence Hell, Damanation, Burn in Fire, be ex-communicated, be declared a heretic, suffer torture, their list of creative terrorism is almost endless.
The same goes for Economic Sanctions, military overflights, missiles aimed at a target, Emborgoes…all are designed to force the other to conform.
How about this beaut? ‘If you force an inquiry I will force an inquiry too.’
Then we have the myoptic view of wannabe punks that think only foreigners, especially Muslims can possibly be called a ‘terrorist!’
Your idiot neighbor or pub that blasts music at you in the wee hours of the morning is committing an act of terrorism as well. After a few nights you no longer feel secure to even go to bed because you nevcer know when the next occurrence will be. This creates fear, and that is the main goal of the Bully or terrorist…The us of unpredictable events which cause psychological or physical harm. The psychological aspects are often the worst…like waiting for the other shoe to drop.
In a truly civilized society people stop and consider the results of their actions against others before acting. Bullies and terrorists enjoy the power of the unpredictable to cause FUD.
We need to seriously revamp our viewpoints on this subject and make our laws. Doing so can help eliminate many situations which progress into serious confrontations by doing so. It can be applied to sociopaths we all have to deal with now and then; the hgihway maniacs who think they own the road; etc.
Treat to cause, not the symptoms and the problem will go away.
No one should be surprised about the agenda behind the depth of the corporate tax cut. Apparently, the tax cut as it applies to the oil companies, more than compensates them for any royalty decreases implemented by the Alberta government.
This is what one might expect from a corporatist PM.
Hi KPN, On.,
Have you heard of peak-oil and gas?
We’ll be out soon!
Have you given any ‘critical thought’ to the real implications of peak-oiland gas to mankind today.
Are you awear that man used 1 cubic mile of oil last year for the first time, even more next year, plus all the other sources of energy we use, to make and move stuff,
lighting and heat, Air conditioning,
to run food fridges. Energy to make furtizers, to run tractors and trucks to grow food for all 6 billion of us.
And there’s also global climate change,
it will be hotter and dryer in the center of the continents and a wider band of desters around the equator.
India is just feeding it’s self now!
Do you think people will just sit and watch they clidern starve?
How are we going to feed everyone?
Were will we all get clean water?
Water is heavy, we use lots of energy from oil to pump it to our home and water crop lands for food. And the ground water and great lakes are starting to run low. The water from mountain glacers is all melting away.
What kind of energy depleted, over populated, poluted world are we making for ourselfs and the future?
Do you have kids?
Do you care about your family and other human beings?
What are you going to do to help localy and globaly?
Do you enjoy the freedoms you still have in Canada? What are you doing to help protect your freedom and others freedoms? Do you remember your history lessons? The new reality of peak-oil and global ‘heating’ will make things different this time!
Were is the good long term planing and doing happening today in our government to help us all deal with reality????
Why are we leaving things up to corporations? They are run to make profit, maximize short term profit. Not plan for the good of all long term.
PMSH doesn’t seem to be working for the good of all Canadian. He seems to be acting for his corporate bosses!
He isn’t a critical thinker, just a follower of the Bushes new world order gang! Shot first, maybe think later?
By Elias on 11.06.07 12:01 pm
Elias.
Don`t count your chickens before they hatch.
While it it not likely the Senate will be abolished, it is likely that they will be brought down a few notches. IE. Limited terms, elected, etc.
The liberals need to be careful. They don`t want to be seen as protectors for these royally pompous partisans that regularly fall asleep during meetings.
Liberal protection for the pompous senate will help Harper get his majority.
I have an idea – lets have a referendum on abolishing winter. It will be about as effective.
By Elias on 11.06.07 12:01 pm
Don’t underestimate the power of a referendum.
The reason that Layton and Harper want to use a referendum is that it would undermine any resistence from the provinces. A vote to abolish the Senate by the general electorate would provide a moral authority that would be difficult for the provinces to override. If a majority in Ontario and Quebec, for example, opted for abolition I don’t believe the provincial governments would resist.
That was the reason that the Mulroney government opted for a referendum on the Charlottetown Accord rather than going the previous route through trying to obtain provincial approval.
Not so poor, not so little lambs
Who have lost your way,
Baa! Baa! Baa!
Big-tummied black sheep
Who have gone astray.
Baa! Baa! Baa!
Damned from St. John’s to eternity
And voters still have mercy on such as ye?
Baa! Baa! Baa! Humbug!
Nobody seems to have a clue about the Senate and what they do. Layton wants to score political points. Harper wants absolute control. And their minions are parroting the talking points.
The Senate is highly effective in making sure that Canada remains Canadian. Senate reports have taken the lid off many issues. Senate debates makes Canadians aware of the ramifications of laws and issues from the House of Commons.
We are not a friggin American Republic like Harper would like to turn us into. We don’t need a Senate that thinks they are more powerful than the provinces and the House like would be if they were elected.
Why doesn’t Harper work on the equal side of the EEE? Because he knows the provinces wouldn’t agree.
As it is now, he needs 7 provinces with more than 60% of the population to change the constitution. But I double that little thing would get in this Dictators way. Harper is going to change Canada in his own image regardless of the constitution or the laws of the land and Layton has grandeur illusions of himself being official opposition.
The two are smoking the same crack.
Hmmmm, The NDP is looking a lot like the official opposition these days. -MILTON MAN
I hope all the parties get together and vote to abolish the Senate.
Any plans to abstain from this vote Garth?
MB
If we have the Liberals to thank for this GST reduction YES WE DO!!! , THANKS ALOT for the IT changes…
KB
By Kerry B on 11.06.07 10:49 am
Au contraire mon soeur…
It was the BLOC that voted with the Harper Conservatives to DECIMATE the Income Trust sector and all of the retiree’s savings accounts with it KB… Bloc supports [Income Trust KILLING] budget; Liberals, NDP say no
It’s a minority Parliament don’t ya know KB. And Harper needs PERMISSION to pass any legislation! All legislation.
As for the 5% GST – YESsss!!! Well, we can all thank Stephane Dion and the Liberals for ABSTINING for that one
It certainly wasn’t Jack or Gilles (NO, NO).
Permission granted a la Stephane Dion!
Sincerely,
MB
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
That’s one way of looking at it but truer words have never been spoken.
“The first words that Dion uttered about Harper were: “.. right-wing, neoconservative, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq,and not representing Canadian values!!†…”
You know, it just occurred to me. It’s the NDP and the Bloc we should be thanking for the GST reduction!
Did you know, that if the NDP and bloc would have abstained, it would allowed the Liberals to vote against it? See? So its the NDP and the Bloc we can thank for the GST reduction!
ABSTAIN YOU SAY? THANKS LAYTON AND DUCEPPE FOR THE 1% GST REDUCTION!
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
EXCELLENT post Harry…spot on in every way……the only thing I would add is that Garth is the KING of negative politics…….that’s more about Garth’s poor career decisions and not Harpers Govt…….
By Ed Brooks on 11.06.07 11:07 am
Hit the nail on the head!
Treat to cause, not the symptoms and the problem will go away.
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.06.07 1:04 pm
I second that!
What a 1% cut in GST will do for the average working Canadian. Very little apparently according to this article in the Sun
The senate is an effective institution for liberal pork barrel.
RE:James 2:42
Amazing isn’t it?… that Mr. Dion could show such perspicacity right out of the gate. No wonder the cons fear Dion and try to destroy him with such ingenuous mendacity and vituperations. It is equally amazing that there are so many con followers. Perhaps, Harper reflects their own lack of principles. Besides, who needs principles when living without principles is so less complex. I am sure that if Harper were to give a cliff side party the con lemming would be there in their multitudes, However, the Liberasls, being the party of compassion, would probably be there also handing out parachutes.
if the NDP and bloc would have abstained…”
By SJ on 11.06.07 2:45 pm
IF
But the simple fact is that Jack and Gilles did not have the GUTS TO ABSTAIN and do what is right for Canada by waiting for the people of Canada to UNAMBIGUOSLY scream from the rafters that they’ve had ENOUGH OF THE HARPER PARTY!
So yes, the 5% GST was given to Canadians courtesy of Stephane Dion and the Liberal ABSTENTION
Bloc supports [Income Trust KILLING] budget; Liberals, NDP say no
IF is a mighty big word that means NOTHING in politics SJ. It’s the actual VOTE (For, Against, or Abstain) that makes a REAL DIFFERENCE to the lives of Canadians.
Sincerely,
MB
By Harry S on 11.06.07 12:09 am
That’s one way of looking at it but truer words have never been spoken.
“The first words that Dion uttered about Harper were: “.. right-wing, neoconservative, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq,and not representing Canadian values!!†…â€
By James- Chatham on 11.06.07 2:42 pm
What you don’t want to accept is that Harper is the PM of Canada, and Dion will never be. Why do you think Garth titled his blog entry “Lost”?!
You and all the other Harper-haters here can’t accept that Garth is expressing his dissatisfaction with the current state of the Liberal party, and he is openly writing about it. Address that reality ..!!
Stop making it up. The post is about MPs and parties on both sides of the House. But you know that. — Garth
Where are you SD?
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=399c4f28-abdd-432e-90e9-046fb1fd1664
I am very disappointed in you, Garth Turner. You joined the Liberal party. This is not the progressive Conservative party of Brian Mulroney and Michael Wilson. During the last election, you benefited from the mud thrown at the Liberals, and got elected.
Sponcership scandal and the Mulroney affair happened at around the same time. Why the Conservatives can harp on ‘brown envelope’ daily, and the Liberals should not talk about the Mulroney affair. All Liberal old war horses want, I’m sure including Ralph Goodale, is that the Conservatives stop talking about Liberal ‘corruption’.
You are a rich man. So you must know if it’s normal for a rich Canadian businessman, recently retired Prime Minister at that, would accept $ 300,000 cash stuffed in envelope at hotel rooms?
I think government should spend more time governing, and MPs should concentrate on representing the people. Just a crazy idea of mine. — Garth
Stop making it up. The post is about MPs and parties on both sides of the House. But you know that. — Garth
I understand that Garth, but what you don’t seem to want to accept is that the problem with Parliament is the Liberals are essentially leaderless and visionless. If the Liberals had an effective leader, Parliament would not be in such an abject condition. But you know that.
And for the record, Garth, I don’t have any connection, directly or indirectly (as the lawyers say), with the CPC, LPOC or NDP. I am a simple, independent Canadian who believes Canada needs the Conservative enema applied to our federal government to flush out the entrenched Liberal detritus. So please don’t make any obtuse insinuations about my intentions here.
I think about 10 years of Conservative government will have cleaned out the Liberal corruption endemic in our federal government. Welcome to the New Canada.
Bill, who is HS?
By Harry S on 11.06.07 4:04 pm
No Harry,
With no anger or anymosity, just telling it as I see it, Mr. Harper is a right-winged, neo-con, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war politician.
What you can’t accept is that other Canadians feel the same way I do in that Mr. Harper does not represent our values.
We gave him his chance to show his true colours, which he has done. And now we say we don’t like what we’ve seen and we want to remove him from the office of PM, ASAP.
Sometime we say it in an assertive way which sometimes may seem like anger. In some cases it is; his refusal and contrived justification to follow prvious policy of all Governments to act on behalf of Canadian on death row, made me see red (and I don’t mean Liberal red!)
Is Mr. Dion any better? From what I’ve seen he is more in line with traditional Canadian liberal (not the party) values as opposed to Mr. Harper’s
socially conservative values. But no doubt, Mr. Dion has his warts!
By Greg W., Oakville on 11.06.07 1:10 pm
Please do not forget that we also derive pharmaceuticals, plastics, synthetic materials, lubricants, and various other needed materials from crude oil. It is far more than just a fuel.
Gosh, Garth, I leave you guys alone for a day and look what happens! Actually, I always give credit where I feel it’s due, and a big kudos to you!
Let me see, from what I can quickly scan from the last post and this post is:
The people who post here know more about Mr. Mulroney and his personal business than anyone, even himself. They know more about the law than does the RCMP, they know more about tax fraud than does Rev. Can. Interesting.
These people are really smart to have figured it all out all by themselves! I think it would be their civil duty to report these ‘crimes’ to the RCMP and Rev. Can. immediately and tell those folks all this info they missed. They’d be most grateful I’m sure.
Really people, you make me feel so out of the loop…the only thing I know about Mr. Dion, or Chretien or Martin is what I’ve read. Their own words, ya know? Do you guys hide in showers and closets? Are ya all laying under Mr. Mulroney’s bed listening with recording the ‘pillow talk’? What is your secret? Hell, on this blog I’ve even been accused of being Mr. Harper’s lover and a paid (tax payer’s money) CPC operative. I’m still waiting for the cheque and if I’ve ever made love to the PM, I must have been drunk because I really don’t recall it. Guess I better be wary of Mrs. Harper heading my way with a big stick in her hand!
Anyway, good post Garth. Really. Some people just don’t get it. XO Leasa
I need a cigarette and a shower. — Garth
By John G on 11.06.07 3:15 pm
Hey there John, Um, I’m on your ‘team’, but, read the post of Garth’s again. You know, to be fair put all the hateful crap you are reading away and look at what he has written. It is exactly what you’ve been asking for. This article of Garth’s was heartfelt and the most unbiased piece I’ve read in a long time. Give credit where it’s due, or you will fall into the dark hole where so many have fallen before you. Read the post, ignore the rest and respond accordingly. Trying to debate and make points in the face of hate is like spinning your wheels in the sand. (which I have done literally, ever try it with a tractor?)Just a wee bit of friendly advice pal. Cheers! Leasa
To be civil and ask responsible questions in the house as it is now would literally require you to turn the other cheek. Tough thing to do.
As to the Senate. That is a derivative of the ancient Roman and Greek structures. Ideally, there must be checks and balances against the HoC, especially with the infantile manner in which they conduuct this nation’s business.
I would also stay with an appointed Senate, but not for life. There should be a mix of business, academic, philosophical, labour, and economic, health, and legal representation.
The American Senate has been a barrier for extremism in many instances. The problem has always been the bastards never go away.
A real democracy has the voice of the people represented, but with the wise counsel of wisedom looking over their actions.
Ideally, I would prefer that all Bills be reviewed by the SCoC for compliance with the Charter, and established law. That would save billions in litigation challenges of bad laws.
I also think the GG needs to play bigger role in matters of State.
I would also like to see a set protion of the annual schedule mandated for removing out of date laws that either violate our current Charter or are no longer used. They would be annotated as non-applicable.
By Leasa on 11.06.07 4:52 pm
Gee, thank you for coming to all our rescue. What would we do without your motherly oversight?
Milton Man and CB Innes: Three words – Meech Lake Accord.
1. I strongly doubt the Federal government has the power to call a referendum on a matter of constitutional change without the approval of 7 provinces with 60% of the population (or more likely, as Lu_Numa pointed out, 9/60). You can bet that several of the Maritime provinces (you know, the ones who Hate Harper) will file a court challenge to the referendum and get an injunction preventing it from happening.
2. Even if a court challenge failed and the referendum were to go ahead without the approval of the provinces, you can rest assured that this would automatically trigger a constitutional crisis between Ottawa and the Provinces. Every one of those premiers, even the premier of Alberta, will take the provinces side. To do otherwise would result in a lose of all their power in any constitutional matter because all the Fed’s would have to do is call a referendum to bypass the provinces.
3. You guys are deluded if you think that “liberal” senators will be on the hot seat. It will be “Maritime senators” and “Quebec senators” fighting for their regions against the Federal government.
4. You guys are also crazy if you think the referendum would build momentum for Harper. All the talk during the election will be about the constitution and not the GST or the strong economy. It will be “Scary Power drunk Harper trying to destroy the senate”, not Harper cutting taxes. Harper loses all his advantages, and Dion, who is a CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR will carve Harper up for lunch because he can speak with authority on the issue. Also, Dion did not appoint any of the senators, so he can keep above the mudslinging between the senators and the Feds. He can also point out, and quite rightly, that the senators are independent of the lower house and therefore, independent of the official opposition. He has no control over them, and cannot since they are not answerable to him.
5. Finally, provoking a constitutional crisis suddenly and dramatically changes the political landscape in Canada – just the opportunity that Dion and the Liberals have been waiting for.
geez, on second thought…perhaps its a good idea after all…
OK, I’ve changed my mind. A referendum on abolishing the senate is a great idea!
Hey Garth, try to let this motion pass (by abstaining or something)…I think Harper is just about to set himself on fire.
Harry S.
If you and yours want to be accepted as the bringers of the voice of reason it would behoove you to speak with your Prime Minister Steven Harper and tell him to apologize for all the below the belt statements he has made against the Liberals in the past three or four years.
Also ask him what he hopes to gain by his smear ads against Stephane Dion. These ads only attract the lowest of the lowest in this country. People who are Computer illiterate, Politics illiterate, Newspaper illiterate, English illiterate and French illiterate. They just pick up on what the guy with the biggest mouth proclaims.
Is that the portion of the population of Canada you feel is most representative of the INFORMED voter ???
“You are a rich man. So you must know if it’s normal for a rich Canadian businessman, recently retired Prime Minister at that, would accept $ 300,000 cash stuffed in envelope at hotel rooms?”
I am not sure how a rich former Prime Minister goes about accepting cash, but this is how a working class citizen accepts cash. I will accept it in hotel rooms absolutly. I will even accept cash at a Motel 6. It does not even have to be cash. Bank drafts, money orders I will accept. Anyone looking to dispose of large quantities of cash let me know and I will divulge my address so we can meet. If it is enough cash I can even travel to pick it up.
Garth, you were in the house during the Mulroney era. The level of debate and wit was not personal but lively and relatively respectful. Some of the bantering from the old veterans was quite entertaining. It almost seemed that afterwards they would go for a beer together.
You must agree it deteriorated under the Chretien years because of his massive majority, a weak and fragmented opposition, and his arrogant bully tactics.
When Martin took over and formed a minority government they did all kinds of things including canceling opposition days, luring the likes of Stronach for cabinet posts just to preserve his government that was going down because of the adscam fallout.
The tone has not improved with the new government because the animosity between the parties still exists.
When questions in QP are phrased such as, “When will the government admit they have failed to …” You know you are going to get an answer that will have nothing to do with the issue but will point to some liberal short coming.
If you, Garth, want to raise the level of respect in the house, questions that are legitimate will force the government to respond with an answer. If they don’t it is they that are looking foolish, not the opposition.
A suggestion would be to prefix a question with something the government is doing that you agree with.
Thats just a suggestion. I doubt that will happen though.
By Bob.R on 11.06.07 5:07 pm
Hey Bob, Attack ads are an interesting phenomena to examine. People say they have attack ads, yet, they are most proven to work. Attack ads are just an arm of ‘defining the opposition’ before he/she can define him/herself in the public perspective. The defining was was done mostly in print but in the last decade is done more and more on-line and on t.v. Defining is an age old political tactic that has been used by many parties. During Mr. Harper’s first election, the defining done by the LPOC worked very, very well. The only time attack ads back-fire is when they go over the top of the public perception of decency. Then you risk creating a victim, an underdog if you like. The only thing every leader must be very careful of is giving the opposition fuel for the ad. If they can use an opposition leader’s own words for the ad, it can create serious problems for that leader. Anyway, over-all the subject of attack ads and the public perspective is a good topic. Okay, on with the supper cooking here…Leasa
By Marc on 11.06.07 5:14 pm
So, I take it you also own a ‘laundromat’? LOL
By Marc on 11.06.07 5:14 pm
Oh, and Marc, are you one of those who respond to the money offers from Nigeria? LMAO!
I would guess the RCMP and CSIS have quite a file on you if those are your ethical standards?
A Must Read
http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2005/11/29/HarperBush/
By Geminesse on 11.06.07 8:36 am
That was an first-class read, Geminesse.
It is widely known that birds of a feather flock together, and in this respect, borders don’t matter.
Harper / dubya (the ringleader) / and the mexican doohinky — all three are using the same barf bag!
H.R.Clinton — a female(?) clone of dubya is now being groomed and poised to take the reins of power in 2008, rethuglikans or demokrats — they’re all one and the same.
Trouble is, Ron Paul (who should be there) will almost certainly be assimilated into the Borg (NWO), and North America will continue to deteriorate faster than ever, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
Sure, we can have an election here (which we will very shortly), but what will that lead to? Another minority, which doesn’t do anyone any good at all.
At least the European soccer was good this morning. Tomorrow will be better, so at least there’s something good to watch, and the players don’t yell or scream at each other to boot!
Talk about ‘Lost’? This is too weird even for Hunter Thompson.
Falling cow lands on van
By James- Chatham on 11.06.07 4:47 pm
With no anger or anymosity, just telling it as I see it, Mr. Harper is a right-winged, neo-con, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war politician.
Prove it, or cease and desist with your goebbelian propaganda..!!!
What you can’t accept is that other Canadians feel the same way I do in that Mr. Harper does not represent our values.
A majority of Canadians did not agree with you and elected Harper, and according to currnet polling a majority of Canadians prefer Harper.
We gave him his chance to show his true colours, which he has done. And now we say we don’t like what we’ve seen and we want to remove him from the office of PM, ASAP.
Why do you spew such delusional rubbish? Who is “we”, and how do you propose to remove him when Dion abstains?
Sometime we say it in an assertive way which sometimes may seem like anger. In some cases it is; his refusal and contrived justification to follow prvious policy of all Governments to act on behalf of Canadian on death row, made me see red (and I don’t mean Liberal red!)
Go to Montana and plead for your beloved Canadian murderer. Your concern is admirable.
Is Mr. Dion any better? From what I’ve seen he is more in line with traditional Canadian liberal (not the party) values as opposed to Mr. Harper’s socially conservative values. But no doubt, Mr. Dion has his warts!
A majority of Canadians do not want Dion or his Liberals. He is a failed leader and that is something you refuse to accept in your desperation and confusion.
Talk about ‘Lost’? This is too weird even for Hunter Thompson.
Falling cow lands on van
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.06.07 5:38 pm
Could of been worse. Could of been an elephant!
By Leasa on 11.06.07 4:58 pm
Hi Leasa…Garth knows very well that over the past 15 months I’ll be the first to give him kudo’s when deserved..the problem is, just when you think he may have gotten over his jaded bitterness with all things Harper, he’ll do it again…..I suspect even Garth now accepts the writing on the wall…Harper is here for a long time…and I say thank God!…Cheers
Re: Mr. Mulroney.
Today I telephoned the most appropriate authority I could think of, on matters of Political and Corporate conscience. A brief summation of the feed, is as follows;
Mr. Tweedy Bird, please tell the people your take on the latest braking news regarding the Mulroney era cream skimming…
I am vewy gwad you asked me dat. I have been giving it a gweat amount of considewation. I have concwuded, dat him, is a vewy bad puddy tat!
Mr. Tweety Bird, could you share with us your thoughts as to the state of Parliament?
Oh yes, definitwey. As I would wike to extend my good name for considerwation for office, I stand for standing for, standing up. On occasion, I stand for sitting down, to show all dem bad puddy tat’s, dat I am standing for standing, or sitting..
It wuz a vewy difficult question..
Mr. Tweedie Bird, could you share your thoughts on Mr. Layton, and his recent position on the Senate?
Certainwy. Mr.Foghorn. P. Leghorn, wecentwy toad me, dat pwoper twaining of Chicken Hawks was pwioty fo’ de New Demogogues Party.
And perhaps your thoughts regarding the Prime Minister.
I wecentwy adwised Yosemite Sam dat chasing daffy duck up da diving tower, could be hazardous to his health.
Lastly, could I impose on you for your thoughts regarding the Leader of the Opposition?
Certainwy. It ‘as come to my attention dat Snow White, and ‘is seven mental midgets ‘av a plan. Da plan is to follow Yosemite Sam and the Chicken Hawks up da diving tower, an’ if dey don’ do da job, dey will push ‘em off demselves!
PMSH doesn’t seem to be working for the good of all Canadian. He seems to be acting for his corporate bosses!
He isn’t a critical thinker, just a follower of the Bushes new world order gang! Shot first, maybe think later?
By Greg W., Oakville on 11.06.07 1:10 pm
Greg – I don’t know why you’re directing this at me. I originally posted about Flim Flim’s tax cuts that more than negated Stelmach’s increase in royalties.
I do as much as possible to reduce my footprint and agree that we must take dramatic steps to reduce carbon emissions, etc. for the sake of future generations.
Leasa…for the record Garth’s 2 finest moments….challenging MP’s writing off mortgages in Ottawa….and……The Canadians-of-convenience issue…both excellent….
Care for a little excerpt to remind us of the past..(get a tissue Garth)
“I hope this is one of the last postings I will make on the issue of passports, dual citizenship, Canadians of convenience and how much you and I as taxpayers should fork out to rescue people who do not live here. It is with happy hands that I am passing on the torch to others.
For example, the big guy. Prime Minister Stephen Harper is now taking the thing over. Here’s what he said last week: “The government has taken the view on this particular occasion that, given the circumstances, given how suddenly it came upon us, that we would spare no expense to protect and to secure the safety of any Canadians who wanted to come to Canada,’ Mr. Harper told reporters. ’I will tell you that we will review this. We will review lessons learned in this and we will make an assessment for future: what we believe we can credibly do and what we cannot credibly do. But, in this case, our objective was to get as many people who wanted, out as quickly as possible and, obviously, to give precedence to residents, but we didn’t restrict it to residents.â€
Good. Canada as global Boy Scout must be reviewed. Go rescue Canadians who have walked into a firefight or in the way of a volcano, but let’s hold the line at hiring ships to evacuate locals from the whole countryside who may once have lived in Sudbury.-Garth
Ahhh, the god old days…………..
And, sadly, PMSH has done nothing about this issue in the intervening months. — Garth
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.06.07 5:33 pm
Bill, I am much too wise to fall for Nigerian scams. I only accept cash. I never pay cash to recieve a bigger payout as I am smarter then that. I do wonder how people keep getting ripped off by those scams though. I have thought of looking in to a website and calling it scammingyou.com and in order to have ones name removed from my spamming list I would just need credit card numbers, bank card numbers, passwords and possibly power of attorney signed over and scammingyou.com will gladly remove your name from future spam.(only reason names would be removed is because I have charged credit cards to max and drained accounts so not needed anymore) Some people fall for the most ridiculous things even when it has been warned about in probibly every form of media availible. Some must not recieve community newspapers under the rocks they are living under.
Could of been worse. Could of been an elephant!
By KPK on 11.06.07 5:51 pm
True. But a minivan has no ‘trunk!’ LOL
It was obviously an ‘udder ‘failure on the cow’s part. And that is no Bull!
By C. B. Innes on 11.06.07 1:26 pm
C.B. I wonder how Harper would feel if the Senate were abolished and down the road the Libs got a majority govt. He pushed for 4 yr. elections, but all the MSM and various pundits agree that he is doing his darndest to force an election. As he may regret the 4 yr elections, he may live to regret the abolishment of the Senate. Fine when you’re the govt. in power, but not in opposition. I don’t agree with the abolition of the Senate. Some changes, yes, but I don’t want to see an elected one either. Do we want to go fully down the road of the US – constant campaign mode. We’re already seeing this now. Same goes with elected Judges tho I know that’s not the topic. But, sure if Harper ever got his way, he’d probably go that route. If we think its costing we taxpayers too much now for our constant elections, imagine with elected Senators and possibly Judges.
What you can’t accept is that other Canadians feel the same way I do in that Mr. Harper does not represent our values.
We gave him his chance to show his true colours, which he has done. And now we say we don’t like what we’ve seen and we want to remove him from the office of PM, ASAP.
Sometime we say it in an assertive way which sometimes may seem like anger. In some cases it is; his refusal and contrived justification to follow prvious policy of all Governments to act on behalf of Canadian on death row, made me see red (and I don’t mean Liberal red!)
Is Mr. Dion any better? From what I’ve seen he is more in line with traditional Canadian liberal (not the party) values as opposed to Mr. Harper’s
socially conservative values. But no doubt, Mr. Dion has his warts!
By James- Chatham on 11.06.07 4:47 pm
I agree with you James, on all accounts. Your detractor above likes to play with words, such as “the majority of Canadians”. You, on the other hand, are a straight shooter.
I think about 10 years of Conservative government will have cleaned out the Liberal corruption endemic in our federal government. Welcome to the New Canada.
By Harry S on 11.06.07 4:43 pm
What about all the Con scandals – election fund manipulation, etc. Too many to mention here and have been stated many times. And, less than 2 years in power.
Harry, you are a partisan and are acting like your PMSH in treating those who do not think Harpie is Canada’s saviour, as simpletons.
Garth, this is exactly what’s keeping the Liberals at 30-ish% support in polls… I told myself that if Dion and the Libs had the balls to man-up and vote down the government’s agenda in the Throne Speech, I’d throw my traditional-NDP-support to the Libs (for the first time in my life). He didn’t. He played it safe. Wait for the news to get old, then the sting isn’t as pronounced.
Canadians don’t want to wait. We may not like elections every 2 years, but we loathe political calculations for the sake of electoral success.
By Harry S on 11.06.07 5:39 pm
And you think those on this blog who support Mr. Dion are angry. You remind me of Mr. Harper who hates everything Liberal with a passion (except when he can rename it and pass it as his own.) So take a look in the mirror!
As for the guy in Montana, I personally think he should be stuck in 6 x 6 cell (or whatever size they happen to be, for 23 out of every 24 hours, in the US. That way he can think about what he did for the rest of his natural life. Injecting him puts him out of his misery too fast! But Mr. Harper’s pathethic attempt to justify doing nothing was pure CRAP.
PS. The majority of Canadians didn’t vote for Mr. Harper, or any party for that matter.
I’ve never tasted hyperinflation before — is it as good as Shepherd’s Pie?!
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1762222007
or you will fall into the dark hole
Sadly, I fear it may already be too late.
Just what everyone needs — another country which (MAY) end up ruling the world’s economy (or economies) because of various government’s gross incompetence.
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20071105/86668601.html
Garth, you were in the house during the Mulroney era. The level of debate and wit was not personal but lively and relatively respectful. Some of the bantering from the old veterans was quite entertaining.
Really?!
That’s not my recollection. Again, I refer to the Rat Pack: Nunziata, Copps, Tobin, and Boudria.
They weren’t called the Rat Pack as a term of affection…
By Keith Phibbs on 11.06.07 12:57 pm
With a name like Phibbs I understand why you sir, are the liar you are.
If you are going to quote people, then don’t change what they write. You are a disgrace and you owe me, Garth, and all others on this blog an apology.
Grow up Phibbs.
Pakistan and India do have nukes, which makes this report interesting.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Why_what_happens_in_Pakistan_matters_1106.html
True. But a minivan has no ‘trunk!’ LOL
It was obviously an ‘udder ‘failure on the cow’s part. And that is no Bull
Bill-Muskoka
Groan..why did they euthanize the cow when they could of had a barbeque instead. The ribs were already pre-boiled from the radiator.
By Keith Phibbs on 11.06.07 12:57 pm
Garth –
Please explain the Mr. Phibbs that he should not quote people in writing on your blog, statements that were not made. Not only is this not ethical, but if tolerated could bring kayos to your forum.
Well this is stupid :
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=63dcd577-db95-4808-b8cc-819b4ed336cf&k=81245
Way to give Harper more ammo…
The title of this post – Lost – like the tv series…
We’re all lost and confused, marooned on a mysterious and dangerous island (called Harperland) until we can get our stuff together and figure out how to get ‘home’ (get our Canada back). Just like the folks on ‘Lost’ we, and by extension, our MPs, have to stop bickering and nitpicking and concentrate our efforts on the big stuff like global warming (I resist the watered down ‘climate change’ description), healthcare, education, crumbling city infrastructure, poverty, any anything that diminishes our quality of life and that of everyone on the globe.
Well this is stupid :
Way to give Harper more ammo…
By KPK on 11.06.07 7:40 pm
No what is stupid is Harpo and Day putting the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list.
And lookie here, Steve is fawning all over a monk that the Chinese have labeled a terrorist.
Garth, I find it difficult to understand your insistence that your main goal to be a MP is to represent your constituents. Do you represent the wishes of EVERYBODY in Halton, or of those whose wishes coincide with yours?
Are you trying to make the Liberal party into your beloved Progressive Conservative party of the past? If so, I think you will have some difficulty with your so called ‘old Liberal war horses’. The Liberal party and the Progressive Conservative party were distinctly different, as I recall.
Mr Turner
This is the most sensible article I believe you have ever penned. I watch QP daily and I know exactly what you speak. The only question I have is that I have heard you ask a few questions. They were not based on the items you mentioned that should be asked.
Until then, I can’t disagree. We have lost our way.
posted by Garth Turner on 11.05.07 @ 10:22 pm
Now that everybody on this forum thread have explained how the past has formed their hatreds, the question that demands an answer is where do we go now? How is Parliament going to be saved from it’s malaise?
I believe changes are being made within the Liberal party that will result in a new leader very soon. That will renew the Liberal party because Dion’s leadership has not provided any renewal whatsoever.
The Conservatives will continue to invite the Liberals to vote non-confidence while providing good government that Canadians will appreciate as time goes on.
Only a majority government will improve the working of our Parliament, and that is what the lil’ ol’ lady from Milton should be made to understand.
The next federal election will most likely occur early next year, either before or after a Spring Budget. Will the Liberal party be ready and able to present themselves as a viable majority government? As it stands now and according to many polls, they are nowhere near even minority status with Dion as their leader.
Garth by saying: “We have lost our way.”, is asking those who frequent this fine forum to offer their forward-looking suggestions for his dilemma.
Let’s put aside our bickering and provide Garth with constructive opinions. I think I have.
RE: kpk 7.40PM
Blessed are the peacemakers.
Any correlation here?
DO YOU SMELL A RAT?
Mark Carney – from Goldman Sachs – the “NEW” Bank of Canada Governor for a 7 year term beginning in Jan./08 – IRS investigations of Hedge Funds – Harper, Flaherty, Dodge – did they have previous knowledge – IMO, OF COURSE THEY DID!!! (after all, the government always knows what is going to happen before it happens – they’re insiders after all) – and so to enable the “pigmen”, OUR Income Trusts, OUR tax laws were manipulated and changed so the “pigmen” would have “the cushion” to fall back on. Of course, Canada would never be considered an offshore tax haven UNLESS our own government made it that way for “the special ones”. REMEMBER the BLACKED OUT PAGES!
SNIP:
“IRS Probes Hedge Funds, Buyout Firms for Tax Abuses (Update1)
By Alison Fitzgerald and Ryan J. Donmoyer
Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) —
“The Service seeks to identify any areas of possible non- compliance in the income tax reporting of hedge fund and private equity fund investors and managers, as well as possible non- compliance in the reporting of withholding obligations,” the IRS said in an e-mailed statement to Bloomberg…
Scope of Inquiry
Donald Alexander, a former IRS commissioner, said the new inquiry may reveal even more abuses than the executive-pay probe, which focused on the use of family limited partnerships, deferred-compensation arrangements, abusive “split-dollar” life insurance arrangements, golden parachutes, and stock options involving phantom companies.
“My guess is that hedge-fund types are less likely to comply than corporate CEOs,” said Alexander, who is now at the Washington law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP. “Taking risks is their stock in trade.”
According to the IRS, the inquiry is focused on seven areas of potential abuse. They include:
– suspicions that hedge funds and private equity funds are failing to file or improperly filing tax and information returns;
– cases where funds are structuring cross-border loans to get around requirements that taxes be withheld on the proceeds;
– evidence that managers aren’t paying tax on all of their income;
– improperly classifying ordinary income that should be taxed at the 35 percent rate as capital, where gains are taxable at 15 percent and losses can be claimed more liberally;
– the flow of funds between onshore and offshore entities;
– how incentive payments and other income is timed and allocated;
– improper accounting methods that minimize income.” End of Snip.
But we know that Mulroney had far more to fear from CRA than from the courts. And we know of the “hidden” Harper majority. And we know that the GST being lowered is a tax cut they haven’t even collected yet.
Yes – pretty hard for anyone to say, HONESTLY, that we haven’t and aren’t being been ripped off! Sold us out!
Merry GRINCHMAS from your everyday Canadian.
We’re not spending one red cent on anything that’s not a necessity. Great economy we have though, EH?
We weren’t born yesterday.
And I SMELL A RAT!
Groan..why did they euthanize the cow when they could of had a barbeque instead. The ribs were already pre-boiled from the radiator.
By KPK on 11.06.07 7:28 pm
Well, I could list a few biological reasons such as stress, hormonal contamination, but hey, a little sedative can be a good thing….Think of it as Triptophan like in turkey, eh? Eat a little…sleep a lot!
What they needed was a seasoned railroad Chef. I remember riding a train once that hit a cow in the middle of the night. The old Chef hopped off the dining car, knife, cleaver, and sharpening stone in hand. We all had free steak and eggs for breakfast. LOL
Besides, have you ever tried to cook a cow that was still moving. Bloody thing simply will not cooperate. You have to at least get the moo out first!
By Greg on 11.06.07 5:56 pm
Now, just a minute their Buster. You can’t pull the wool over little duck’s eyes!
My friend has a Plutonium 239 Space Modulator, and he knows how to use it!
By Ken C on 11.06.07 1:02 pm
I actually met Red Skelton once in my youth. What a marvelous, and real Human Being! He really was like we saw him. Kind, gerntle, and very wise, but able to make you laugh or cry at will…because he portrayed life as people live it.
Imagine Gertrude and Heathcliff flying over Parliament? Gertrude says ‘Hey, look at the big pointy thingy!’
Heathcliff says ‘Yeah, and it has a clock!’
Gertrude responds ‘But it goes Guh-Donk!’ Heathcliff says ‘No, that’s not the clock, that’s the MP’s inside the pointy thingy!’
Heathcliff says”Oh, Okay, this one’s on the House!’
Some must not recieve community newspapers under the rocks they are living under.
By Marc on 11.06.07 6:04 pm
Orrrrrr, they cannot read; the paper is published in a language they are illiterate in; or they are compulsive gamblers who believe the ‘World owes me my Rewards!’
Garth:
I agree- forget about Mulroney- mention him maybe but drop it and go on to more relevant topics.
Parliament (mostly Question Period) does not work, and it is a joke!!! I want my elected Parliamentarian to ask whatever his/her constituents want asked, and then an ANSWER given. Plain and simple.
This isn’t how it works and it needs to be fixed. This scripted question garbage has to end. And to think many of our ELECTED leaders in Parliament are lawyers is shameful.
The system sucks and does little, if anything, for anybody! Sorry for being so blunt, but I say it as I see it.
We need more MP’s like you and Mr. Casey who try to make it work.
Garth, why can’t you represent every riding?
No what is stupid is Harpo and Day putting the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list.
And lookie here, Steve is fawning all over a monk that the Chinese have labeled a terrorist.
By Emilie on 11.06.07 8:56 pm
Yup, Emilie, we should all follow Chinese treatment of human rights. Not!!! You are such a sad example.
Freedom, the most cherished privilege under a democratic institution is well-observed and respected in the Liberal Party as it shown in this blog of Mr. Turner. An open-mind approach towards Liberal strategy.
I do not see any help for the Conservatives for insulting/attacking Dion after having been in government for more than one year. Isn’t it about time for them to brag about their accomplishments?
What an insecure group of politicians!
“Only a majority [Conservative] government will improve the working of our Parliament… Let’s put aside our bickering and provide Garth with constructive opinions. I think I have.”
By Harry S on 11.06.07 9:27 pm
In the interests of putting aside the bickering, Harry S, can you answer the following question for me please:
Q/ Are you saying that PM Harper, with a Conservative Majority, will govern the way he has been governing since the Liberals have granted him a so-called temporary “majority” by abstaining?
Please answer sincerely Harry S.
The sincerity of your answer will be a direct reflection of the apparent sincerity of your statement quoted above.
I offer the opinion that a PM Stephane Dion led Canada, with either a minority or a majority, would be a Canada worth living in.
A Canada that backs it’s convictions that every person should have a family doctor, and that every person should receive a good education with tax dollars that facilitate these ideals.
A Canada that has the economy working to support the people, and not the people working to support the economy.
A Canada that honours and seeks out the wisdom acquired through age and experience of a non-elected body (Senate) to ensure that legislation flowing out of the elected body (HoC) is good and strong and untainted by the external lobbying pressures that come with a person’s ability to win elections.
A Canada where parliamentarians works arm-in-arm using the best ideas from all points of view, and incorporates them into the best possible legislation for the benefit of the Canadians.
A Canada led by a consensus builder.
A Canada led by a non-politician.
A Canada led by a man of integrity.
A Canada led by Stephane Dion.
Sincerely,
MB
Aye! Here is what you get from Parliamentary efforts.
UK chooses ‘most ludicrous laws’
Some of my favorites, but there are many more examples of Dumb & Dumber Laws passed by so-called ‘leaders!’ Let us not forget this is from our Mother country. GADS! Are we expecting too much from Ottawa?
The UK’s top 10 most ridiculous British laws were listed as:
It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament (27%)
Well, there goes that thought for the government self-destructing!
It is illegal for a woman to be topless in Liverpool except as a clerk in a tropical fish store (6%)
I guess they are required to keep the customer abreast of the good?
Eating mince pies on Christmas Day is banned (5%)
Let’s get serious and ban them 365 days a year!
If someone knocks on your door in Scotland and requires the use of your toilet, you are required to let them enter (4%)
What do they say? ‘Welcome to our dump?’
In the UK a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman’s helmet (4%)
Well, now we know where the saying ‘Without a pot to piss in.’ came from!
It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing (3%)
Shouldn’t this be called the Brian Mulroney Law?
It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of armour (3%)
Darn, just when we thought we would have Garth as our Shining Knight too!
Other bizarre foreign laws voted by those polled included:
In Ohio, it is illegal to get a fish drunk (9%)
In Indonesia, the penalty for masturbation is decapitation (8%)
WOW! They take circumcision really serious there…heads UP! However, child prostitution is okay. AHA! That is why masterbation is a serious crime…Depriving the pimps of their profits.
A male doctor in Bahrain can only examine the genitals of a woman in the reflection of a mirror (7%)
In Switzerland, a man may not relieve himself standing up after 10pm (6%)
Shouldn’t that be an Iraih Law?
It is illegal to be blindfolded while driving a vehicle in Alabama (6%)
Well, there goes the defense, eh?
Women in Vermont must obtain written permission from their husbands to wear false teeth (6%)
Naw, I am not going to even touch that one! ROFLMAO!
In Milan, it is a legal requirement to smile at all times, except during funerals or hospital visits (5%)
In France, it is illegal to name a pig Napoleon (4%)
Yeah? What about BBQ grills?
Whew, that proves one point ‘Do not comment before injesting one’s morning tea, and or the eyes are working.’
Sorry for the typos folks!
In Indonesia, the penalty for masturbation is decapitation (8%)
WOW! They take circumcision really serious there…heads UP! However, child prostitution is okay. AHA! That is why masterbation is a serious crime…Depriving the pimps of their profits.By Bill-Muskoka on 11.07.07 8:42 am
Wish I knew that when I was in Java. Good thing no one noticed.
By MB on 11.07.07 6:14 am
Q/ Are you saying that PM Harper, with a Conservative Majority, will govern the way he has been governing since the Liberals have granted him a so-called temporary “majority†by abstaining?
Please answer sincerely Harry S.
Many of the things you attribute to a Dion government would be adequately met by a Harper majority government.
However in addition to that, a Harper majority government would reduce the activities of the federal government to it’s original constitutional role and not interfering in provincial jurisdictions. This would reduce the size of the federal government and thus reduce federal taxation.
The basic difference between a Dion and Harper governments is that Dion believes in a larger federal role in provincial affairs and higher taxation .. while a Harper majority government would reduce the federal government for lower taxation.
Do you believe Canadians overtaxed by a previous corrupt and delinquent Liberal government will want another centralizing, high taxation Dion Liberal government?
Do you believe Canadians overtaxed by a previous corrupt and delinquent Liberal government will want another centralizing, high taxation Dion Liberal government?
By Harry S on 11.07.07
——————–
So what you are saying is the Harper Federal Government will just pass the buck on down to the Provincial and Municipal levels of Government. The Feds get less tax money =less money to transfer to the provinces, therefor the Provinces will be forced to raise OUR taxes higher or cut services to make up the difference. Either that or they will just pass on the buck down the line to the Cities who will in turn raise your property taxes and service fees to make up the shortfall. Kind of a vicious circle of game playing here don’t you think Harry. The good old tax payer still gets hit one way or the other.
“Many of the things you attribute to a Dion government would be adequately met by a Harper majority government.
However in addition to that, a Harper majority government would reduce the activities of the federal government to its original constitutional role and not interfering in provincial jurisdictions.”
By Harry S on 11.07.07 11:59 am
I mentioned two specific things Harry S. namely, A family doctor for each Canadian and a good education for each Canadian.
Healthcare and Education are PROVINCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES according to the Constitution, and you said:
“a Harper majority government would reduce the activities of the federal government to it’s original constitutional role and not interfering in provincial jurisdictions.” (H.S.)
Q/ Why are they PROVINCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES according to the Constitution?
A/ Because healthcare and education were not NATIONAL CANADIAN PRIORITIES when the Constitution was drafted. The simple fact is that it is HEALTHCARE and EDUCATION that now define us as Canadians.
HEALTHCARE and EDUCATION are NATIONAL PRIORITIES NOW!!!
And a majority Haprer Government will let the rich provinces do whatever they want with healthcare and education while leaving the poor provinces to rot with respect to healthcare and education according to you Harry S.
I don’t know about you Harry S, but that’s not anywhere near the kind of Canadian government I want. I want all of us Canadians to have a family doctor and a good education for our kids and grandkids.
And you’re saying a Harper Majority will go in exactly the opposite direction???
Besides, the only reason that I can figure that PM Harper needs a majority is because he can’t work WITH anybody, not even his own caucus.
Am I way off base on that Harry S?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
MB
Hi KPN,
Sorry if you were affended in any way,
it wasn’t intended.
I didn’t mean to direct all of my last post at you personally. I just get going sometimes and keep typing.
Please try to look past my comments being directed at you personly, because that wasn’t what I had intended.
My intent was to try to inform persons reading this blog about peak-oil and climate change, if they haven’t heard of it or critically thought about the implications. Mayby some will even take some time to looking into it more.
We might even get enough persons knowlegable enough to collectively start to do positive things about the coming trouble! and put pressure on the government leaders to help us all make changes to deal with the reality.
‘beleif in myth avoids the discomfort of thought’.
I think giving Corporation all the control to manage our collective long term wellfare is simple bad planing for the good of everyone.
The corporation is an entity to make profit, not to look out for the common good. That’s what the elected government is supost to do. Corporations lobby elected persons to try and maximize there gains, not look out for you and your families best interests.
Looking forward to the opertunity to seeing yours and everyones posts.
Try to act localy and thing globaly as you are able.
Work on being part of the solution(s).
There is often more than one way to solve things. Making sure you aren’t making things worse.
Choising to do nothing is still a choise. That’s what PMSH and his gang are doing! They are not informed or don’t care. they are not critical thinkers. But you don’t need to be to get elected. Sometime you just need to be the best snakeoil sales person.
Do you have kids?
What kind of energy depleted, polluted,
world are we making?
Do you care about other human beings and the future of life on our only planet, earth?
Please use your brain! Try and be part of the solution and not add to the problems.
Not all of the above was intended for KPN personally.
Wish I knew that when I was in Java. Good thing no one noticed.
By Marc on 11.07.07 11:38 am
That will serve as warning next time you travel there and want to be a ‘handyman’, eh? LOL
The political caste has become a dissociative class. The voting electorate is shrinking (look at the last election in Ontario). We are already far down the path of indifference and while the politicians bicker and score points the electorate are shopping in Buffalo and not declaring their goods at the border. I think that when the electorate believes it is a better steward of tax revenues than the government, the country is in trouble. Little wonder why more and more of my 40-year old friends are looking to find ways to squirrel money out of Canada. Good luck everyone.
Interesting comments Garth. My friends and I have discussed this to no end. Your point about what’s important in Ottawa vs. what’s important in Milton is bang on. However, I would say that this declien has been in the making over years and years. It used to be that taking a role in public service/office was something to be admired and respected, now all politicians are painted with the same brush – liars, cheats and corrupted and are whose motices and actions are viewed with extreme suspicion. The voters are cynical. As you pointed out, the goal of an everyday politician is skewed to winning the game of politics. Is this a function of the fact that politicians predominantly associate with other politicians and have lost touch with the larger world? Is it due to a scandal/conflict hungry media and the ease with which information and disinformation are spread these days? I’m not sure? But I think the perceived separation of politicians and the rest of us and the now negative stereotype of politicians at all levels of government may have some widespread impacts. The recent record low turnout of the Ontario Provincial election may be a sympton of this. Was it a sign of a fatigued electorate who have don’t care anymore – doesn’t matter who we elect, they will say and do anything to stay in power and will be scandal ridden by the end of their term anyway!
Further, I believe that a loss of faith in the government and teh system is likely to lead people to rationalize more and more behaviours that will wind up leaving the Government with less tax revenue. Declare all purchases at the border? Naw! Take undeclared cash payments for jobs? Why not, the guys in Ottawa just fritter it away and line their own pockets? It goes on and on. Hopefully at somepoint this trend will reverse itself, however given the current system and actors its tough to see a catalyst for change.
Well, that didn’t take long…
Quebec warns Harper about Senate plans
RHEAL SEGUIN
Globe and Mail Update
November 7, 2007 at 6:14 PM EST
“Prime Minister Stephen Harper is being warned against reforming the Senate without consulting Quebec first,
Wednesday, the three main parties in Quebec unanimously adopted a motion stating that “any changes to the Canadian Senate cannot be done without the consent of the government of Quebec and the National Assembly.â€
But if Ottawa remained adamant in pursuing Senate reform then the opposition parties are insisting on knowing what kind of constitutional demands Premier Jean Charest’s government would be willing to make on the Harper government in order to achieve more powers within the Canadian federation.”
Thanks a lot Dumb (Steve) and Dumber (Jack), just what we need – a Constitutional crisis.
oops – here’s the link for my last post
http://tinyurl.com/264kyo
By Harry S on 11.07.07
——————–
So what you are saying is the Harper Federal Government will just pass the buck on down to the Provincial and Municipal levels of Government. The Feds get less tax money =less money to transfer to the provinces, therefor the Provinces will be forced to raise OUR taxes higher or cut services to make up the difference. Either that or they will just pass on the buck down the line to the Cities who will in turn raise your property taxes and service fees to make up the shortfall. Kind of a vicious circle of game playing here don’t you think Harry. The good old tax payer still gets hit one way or the other.
By Randy on 11.07.07 12:35 pm
Exactly correct, Randy, the provinces will determine what their local priorities must be and raise taxation for those priorities.
What better than to have local politicians determine the needs of their people, and be held locally accountable.
If say Manitoba wanted a free dental plan for all children up to the age of 18, and they implemented such a plan with the necessary tax funding, so be it.
Do you see anything wrong with that ..??
By MB on 11.07.07 6:14 am
Q/ Are you saying that PM Harper, with a Conservative Majority, will govern the way he has been governing since the Liberals have granted him a so-called temporary “majority†by abstaining?
Probably not, because the Harper Conservative minority government is constrained by the Opposition and the reality of the Canadian’s handout political mindset. Once Harper gets his majority, he will undoubtedly attempt to radically change the way Canada is governed from Ottawa. He will cut out all the unnecessary tax-and-spend programs and centralizing socialistic control of Canada. He will put more responsibility on the provinces to manage their economies, and wean several of the welfare state provinces off the dole. Canada cannot be pulled down by provinces that are not economically viable, because the reality of the world economy will not tolerate that.
…………………………………..
I offer the opinion that a PM Stephane Dion led Canada, with either a minority or a majority, would be a Canada worth living in.
etcetera ….
Sincerely, MB
Okay, but would you support a majority Dion Liberal party that would immediately buy $5 Billion of Kyoto Carbon Credits, with Billion$$$ more to follow, from China, Russia, India to meet our Kyoto commitments and mitigate the horrendous 35% excess GHG piled up during the 13 years of Liberal regimes?? Remember this is Canadian taxpayer’s money.
Then Environment Minister Dion proposed the initial purchase of $5 Billion of Kyoto C Credits in his ‘Project Green’ plan, and he has stated he would implement this plan. Do you think that the Canadian taxpayers and businesses should be forced to finance the transfer of Canadian money to China, Russia, India, all in the name of Kyoto??
………………………………….
Please answer sincerely MB.
The sincerity of your answer will be a direct reflection of the apparent sincerity of your requests.
Sincerely … Harry S
Hi Garth; great comments.
I agree that politicians have strayed off course. I think, however, that it will be most difficult to change course while the Prime Minister and his party show such contempt for both Parliament and its membership.
As always best wishes.
Hello….
Harry S, harry s. har…
So it’s true then…
Harper needs a majority because he can’t work with anybody!!!
And what falls STRICTLY within FEDERAL JURISDICTION, Harry S, that will let SOLITARY HARPER almost eliminate federal taxes?
And will EACH PROVINCE be able to fully fund healthcare and education… if healthcare and education are even on the list of provincial priorities?
Maybe Alberta’s government will be more interested in decimating the geography and water resources of their province to produce ‘black gold’ as their first priority…
I wonder if Alberta will join Kyoto Agreement or the Agreement that China and the US belong to?
Who needs Canada eh Alberta?
Is the air we breathe and the water we drink within the provincial or federal jurisdiction according to the Constitution Harry S?
A Harper Majority… Completely untethered provinces… a Canada in name only… ROTFLMHO… ahhhh… LOL… hahahah… ahhhhhh… lol… ahhh…
Nice prescription for the devolution of Canada.
VOTE AGAINST THE DEVOL (uter Harper)
VOTE!!!
Things will not change unless YOU, and five of your friends, VOTE (to change them).
Spread the word.
Sincerely,
MB
By MB on 11.07.07 8:52 pm
So it’s true then…
Harper needs a majority because he can’t work with anybody!!!
And what falls STRICTLY within FEDERAL JURISDICTION, Harry S, that will let SOLITARY HARPER almost eliminate federal taxes?
…………………………………………
Sincerely, MB
Yer almost right, MB .. because when Harper gets his majority government that will be the end of the Liberal criminals too … the one’s who want to send Billion$$$ to China.
“The constant bickering is not what we want you to do in Parliament. Yes, I know this is a minority, but why can’t you people just sit down and do the things that are best for the country? Why can’t you work together? Have you lost your way?”
That lady who spoke does not anything about check and balance and the danger she is suggesting if all parliamentarians work together or conspire together. I am in the Philippines, madam, and, here, legislators, except for very few principled ones, especially in the lower house work together.
Party loyalty here is just a convenient thing during the campaign period for the purpose of getting a war chest but a loyalty which can easily be shed off whenever it endangers one’s entitlement to pork barrel after election. Yes, indeed, congressmen here or most of them work together regardless of their party connections but work together to screw the public and never for the “best of the country”. I never like collaboration among politicians. (Have you ever thought what will happen to the chickens if all weasels join together as in a mob?). It always results in a majority abusing the minority and the public in general. Different opinions must always be entertained and encouraged in any democratic institution for the benefit of the people.
Monopoly never benefits the people, competition does.
Tell that lady that if she wants collaborating members of various parties, she better lives in the Philippines and experiences first-hand on how to be screwed by the politicians who “work together”.
Thanks for your frank article today, Garth.
What if the Liberals were to ask the questions that Canadians from every riding want answered? Ask Canadians what questions they want asked and then read those in the House along with the voter’s name. When PMSH and his pitbulls start dissing the voters and not answering the questions, then we’ll see the media hop on it. PMSH seems to feel he can righteously get away with not answering Liberal questions – well, fine – don’t give him Liberal questions, give him the questions from the voters.