Would you like a cheap yacht? How about a cheap yacht factory?
If so, auctioneers Danbury Sales has got a deal for you on Thursday, December 13th. The event takes place in Whitby, and will be of major interest to higher-income earners. Hell, you might even see Jim Flaherty there – he’s got enough money, and he lives real close.
After twenty years of building world-class sailing and motor catamarans, Whitby-based PDQ Yachts has closed its doors. Danbury is liquidating the entire operation. A hundred skilled jobs will be gone, and along with that tens of millions of dollars in export sales, mostly into the United States.
As a local, close to the operation, describes it: “PDQ Yachts closed their doors due in large part to the impact of the high Canadian dollar. The lions share of PDQ’s sales were made to the USA. PDQ contributed greatly to exports and was a vibrant employer in Whitby. It’s no wonder that PDQ Yachts went under. I’ve read that the Canadian dollar has been allowed to increase in value against the US Dollar by as much as 28% in 2007. What Canadian manufacturer/exporter can absorb a loss of 28% of their profit margin? Certainly not PDQ Yachts. I wonder how Flaherty would respond, knowing that around 100 Whitby constituents are now unemployed while he does everything in his power to do nothing.”
I listened to the Minister of Finance say yesterday “there are some challenges” in the manufacturing sector, thanks to the unrestrained explosion in the value of the Canadian dollar. But in the same breath he reassured that employment is growing, the economy is sound and there is certainly no crisis. He has announced no action to mitigate job losses.
So far, about 350,000 jobs in manufacturing have been lost, because with a dollar worth more than the American one, sales to the US have collapsed. Experts appearing before us at the finance committee have spoken with one voice – economists from banks, unions and big business – these lost jobs are but the tip of the iceberg. If the loonie stays at parity for the next two years, the number of people it throws out of work could surpass one million. And not just in manufacturing, since the retail sector, tourism, hospitality, forestry and shipping are also affected.
The government is not to blame for the dollar’s value, but it has also done nothing to stem it or try to soften its impact. While the Bank of Canada could help by chopping interest rates, the feds could assist by reducing corporate overhead in a variety of ways and pumping cash into funds to help retrain and retool displaced workers. Instead of swimming in a $15 billion surplus of over-taxation, Ottawa could wade into the real economy in places like Whitby, and give working Canadians a hand up.
Sadly, once a manufacturing facility goes, it never comes back. When the machines at PDQ are unbolted from the concrete pad and crated up, along with all the winches and fabricating equipment, they may well find their way onto a boat bound for China. Skills learned over years of hard work will be lost. Export revenue will disappear. A hundred families in the Whitby area will go into crisis, or move, or both. The country will be a little poorer for the loss of one company, and massively disadvantaged by the demise of thousands – as is happening now.
And well-off people in the future, like Mr. Flaherty and his MPP spouse, will be importing their yachts, instead of living with the people who build them.
On Monday I interviewed my colleague John McCallum, Liberal MP and former chief economist of the Royal Bank, on what Ottawa could be doing to help manufacturers survive the dollar. To view the video, click here.
210 comments ↓
Reportedly the Member from Halton is also one of those dastardly “well-off people”, not unlike Flaherty and his wife, so that’s a bit of a stretch.
And that matters how, exactly? — Garth
There are so many high quality jobs available, those employees have nothing to worry about. There are far too many companies in our country who’s only strategic advantage is a cheap Canadian Dollar. I’m glad the Canadian government isn’t subsidizing these companies.
The sooner Canadian Companies learn to compete with a strong Canadian Dollar, the better we all will be. Subsidies will do nothing but delay the inevitable.
Looks like PDQ was eyeing the dollar factor long ago, and diverted part of its business to North Carolina in 2005.
Is it retaining that part of its manufacturing business, with all that Edenton,NC offered?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051011.wryachts11/BNStory/
October 11, 2005 at 9:29 AM EST
“…PDQ makes only catamarans — The company makes catamarans in both sail and motorboat versions. The diesel-engine PDQ 34 Powercat (the number refers to the length in feet) is proving such a hit with wealthy Americans that the company is building a new factory in North Carolina.
“We want to double the size of the company in two years,” says PDQ president Simon Slater, 44. “We have to build where we can deliver year round and we can’t do that in Canada.”
“…To meet demand, and allow delivery throughout the year, PDQ is building a $3-million (U.S.) plant in Edenton, N.C. Mr. Slater was astonished by the town’s reception to the prospect of job creation.
Edenton offered PDQ free land and a free new road from the plant to the water. “The mayor, the regional development officer and the town development officer all flew up to Canada to see me,” he says.
Building in the United States offers another advantage: It eliminates the cost risk of the rising Canadian dollar, which has been hurting PDQ’s profit margins. The company’s budget had assumed a 80-cent dollar. The forecast was off by a nickel.
The Whitby factory will not be closed. It will continue to build the Antares sailboat and two planned bigger versions of the Powercat, a 41-footer and a 46-footer. The North Carolina will pump out the high-volume 34 Powercat.
The Powercat has attracted so much attention that Mr. Slater knows PDQ will no longer have that market to itself. Indeed, French builder Lagoon is about to launch a powerboat catamaran with similar dimensions.”
Instead of swimming in a $15 billion surplus of over-taxation, . . .
—————————————–
That’s the ONLY reason there is — or was — a surplus.
The Libs dropped the tax rate, CRAPpoids raised it then dropped it again, along with a completely useless GST cut which does almost nothing for anyone and then spends money as if it’s going out of style.
The further Harper digs his (and CRAPs) grave, all Dion has to do is be portrayed as a positive, no-nonsense leader, and when the Libs are re-elected with a clear majority, then the mess created by those dumbass CRAPpy yahoos will be cleaned up.
The sooner, the better!
To coincide with Garth’s post re: the shutdown in Whitby, Harley-Davidson is letting 5,400 workers go due to a decline in sales.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8T5KDU00.htm
John, that Member from Halton does not have the power or authority to wade into the economy and fix what is wrong like Paul Martin and Jean Chretien did. So quit being a CON.
As for Flim Flam Bubbles and Stevo…. they are not economists and know diddle squat about economic matters. They just aren’t leaders, not at all.
The country is falling down around their ears and all Harper can do is say “Canada’s back.” LOLOLOL
What is it with the Liberals – why do they constantly want our Canadian dollar to be at a peso level?
Garth, surely, you must know how hard it was for manufacturers (investment for machinery, etc) to buy when our was low. This is the time for canadian manufacturers to upgrade.
Or are the Liberals just trying to move everything offshore to Maurice Strong stumping grounds (China)?
“Reportedly the Member from Halton is also one of those dastardly “well-off peopleâ€, not unlike Flaherty and his wife, so that’s a bit of a stretch.
And that matters how, exactly? — Garth”
Great point Garth. How does it matter exactly? Any more than this comment from you: “Hell, you might even see Jim Flaherty there – he’s got enough money, and he lives real close.” The drive-by smears that you seem unable to keep out of your missives of late, really reduces the validity of your arguments in my eyes…..and I’m a Liberal and a lukewarm fan.
Mr. Flaherty does live near by, and he is in the income bracket of yacht-buyers. No smear there, just facts. — Garth
Thanks Garth, for bearing down on this most important subject. I wonder in my heart if there is saddest plot to get these people to move West feading the Western Moment? I know it sound a little over the top, but middle class workers are but soldiers of industry.
Speaking of Soldiers. (off topic but very importnat) Latest info from (CNN) states that the Taliban have taken back control of Afghanistan and now occupy 62% of country. AND the only people who are living well are the private contrators! Republican Senators are jumping ship like scared rats, so Garth, this leads me to ask you and are informed posters, just how bad are things south of border and can they keepb their heads above water with a ten (10) Trillion dollar debt and growing?
Mr. Flaherty and his never managed a business nor company bossman Stevie “Bully Boy” Harper have put their heads in sand and are doing nothing….NOTHING!
I can take the heat so please and really mean it, tell us all Garth Turner is wrong in his words and tell others in our manufacturing industry not to worry their Christmas will be the best ever!
Trudeau’s Admiration for Hitler and Mussolini Comes as No Surprise to Life and Family Advocates.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06053105.html
Garth –
Are you saying that the dollar would still be low under a liberal government ??
Please answer -
Trudeau’s Admiration for Hitler and Mussolini Comes as No Surprise to Life and Family Advocates.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/may/06053105.html
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 7:1
Do you consider yourself a good
christian?
Please answer-
Here is a good site that exposes the ploys of the conservative party.
http://www.harperindex.ca/index.cfm
How Bullies Operate
http://www.poptel.org.uk/gpmu/bullysign.html
Workplace bullying is generally vindictive, cruel, malicious or humiliating behaviour towards an individual or even a group of employees. It is demeaning and can cause untold stress and suffering to those on the receiving end.
There’s nothing new in this – what is new is acknowledging that it reaches far beyond the playground, and crops up where you may least expect it. It may be occurs between workers but equally, it can be the abuse of authority by management. It may reflect a management style that is autocratic and based on telling people what to do rather than allowing them any personal initiative.
Bullies can be motivated by a number of things such as lack of self-confidence, envy towards other people’s abilities, success and popularity or they may take a completely irrational dislike to an aspect of someone’s personality or their way of doing things.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 7:18 am
Twisting words again.
“The government is not to blame for the dollar’s value, but it has also done nothing to stem it or try to soften its impact.” – Garth
Would the dollar still be strong. Garth has clearly statetd that part is outside of governments control. Would the dollar be as strong, maybe, maybe not.
But the key part is that the Liberals would not have stood idly-by.
I guess Mr. Flaherty is going to have to answer questions in is own backyard over his lack of action.
Safety codes on machinery makes it hard to re locate it within Cananda because it would need a pre start inspection by a p-eng. and usually, expensive upgrades are needed. Our safety compliance costs are huge compared to countries that we compete with directly. If somehow the playing feild was more level, it would change things dramatically.
The sooner Canadian Companies learn to compete with a strong Canadian Dollar, the better we all will be. Subsidies will do nothing but delay the inevitable.
By All Canadian on 11.26.07 11:13 pm
Hate to rain on your parade pal, 85% of goods sold in Canada come from China where the wages are about $1.00 per hour with no benifits…..yup you got cut wages here about 35% accross the board and no Blue Cross. Oh yea 45 million have not health care in the US and another 15-20 million only think they have……and for your next trick?
What Garth has not centered on is the Province of Quebec where there are hundreds of these types of busineses. Soon the chatter will begin and any bets there may cash flow there way. nah that will never happen. The money PMSH gave his pal Charest was only a loan that just happened around election time. Hell Alberta gots cash to burn.
Maybe its time for the perfect little Fianace Minister to do something to help the manufacturing sector ravaged by the value of the Canadian dollar.
Might I suggest he do it PDQ, as in pretty damn quick.
I disagree with Mr. McCallum on 3 points. One is the value of job retraining programs in a situation like this. Next his views on GST cuts as opposed to income tax cuts. Lastly his politicians opinion regarding the Bank of Canada.
If we are talking about the impact of job losses on those who have actually lost their job, then let’s look at the reality they face.
Say the average affected person was earning $25/hr = $52,000 /yr. Now they go on UIC which pays what? $413 or so per wk. = $21,476 /yr. Waiting period for ist cheque approx 6 weeks. Net income is about half. Big trouble if you have a family and a mortgage.
If you go into retraining, the period for eligibility is extended but when you finish, now you are a greenhorn starting all over again. IF, you can find a job in the field you are going to make entry level income. Say $12/hr = $24,960 /yr. Still about half of what you were making. Still big trouble.
Now look at the GST as opposed to income tax cuts. GST affects just about everything, as we have already discussed here at length. Most affected workers would benefit more from GST cuts to things like their power, heat, fuel, insurance etc..etc..than a small income tax cut to a very low end tax rate, or in the case of single income family, virtually no income tax saving whatsoever.
Lastly, why not yell long and loud at the B of C for interest rate cuts? This would help displaced workers via lower interest costs and help to address the root cause as well. The dollar.
Nice words, little substance.
How fast can they build a tent city at Fort Mc Murray??
Haltonjohnmiltonman,
Please take some time and open your minds.
WHITE PRIVILEGE
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whiteprivilege.htm
Root of Homophobia
http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html
Fact sheet from the dept. of justice
http://justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/spousal_abuse_fact_sheet.pdf
Thank you Set for Sales on giving us the rest of the story.
This company started to relocate to the U.S. for their stronger, more stable dollar.
“As a local, close to the operation, describes it: “PDQ Yachts closed their doors due in large part to the impact of the high Canadian dollar.” ~Garth.
So, Garth, what would it take for these businesses to stay open? A 50 cent dollar? Is 60 cents okay? Is 80 the limit? Is it possible that they are simply moving the rest of the business to their new U.S. digs? Does it say anything about our productivity and quality when supposed big business fail so quickly when they hit the smallest bump in the road? I would not want to own a business that depended solely on an embarrassingly low CND dollar, would you? Leasa
You can bet your bottom dollar.
The PDQ property will be the future site of a Condominium to house the exodus from the GTA being a 2 minute walk from the GO Station.
With all do respect Mr. Halton John the neo cons and want-a-be’s (Republicans) are jumping ship fast than scared rats.
Irag is lost and Afghanistan is a disaster and will be worst than Iraq. Wrap this all in Bushe’s fuzzy math to borrrow Trillions of dollars and sub prime loans not even finished yet and what can I say? Get a grip on the facts and move your cash to GIC’s not that they are even safe should things get even half as bad as predicted. So Mr. Halton John, think and think again then think about stopping to listen to Garth Turner, if he is wrong, we are safe but even if he is only half right we are in a very rough ride. Then again I am ode country boy from Wentworth County so what do I know?
Ah Catherine, John and fellow troll patrollers, keep those horse balls flying.
That way you provide proof positive that neo-Cons not only don’t have solutions; they don’t even understand the problems.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 7:13 am
Let’s see. The topic is the loss of manufacturing jobs; how will we respond to that? I know, I’ll post a link to a year old story about a Trudeau biography that highlight events that took place 60 years ago.
I hated Trudeau’s guts and he, more than anything else, convinced me to be a Conservative. But, I fail to see the relevance except to deflect attention from a subject to which you apparently have no meaningful response.
Sometimes, if one doesn’t have an answer, silence is golden.
When you have an ambulance chaser for a finance minister and a voodoo economist as prime minister what can you expect? First it was the hollowing out of the industrial sector, now the manufactoring jobs are following. The Cons say that the high dollar is a good thing…sure but not when productivity lags the US by 15-20% and the Yuan is at a 40% advantage. The fundamentals support an 85-90 cent dollar… the argument that manufactures can buy cheaper productivity enhancing machinery is specious and self serving stupidity, a common trait among the cons. A manufacturin job is worth seven service jobs and as manufacturing goes so goes the economy.
The Cons want to build a fool’s paradise where a few wealthy lord it over the poor masses and it appears that they are succeding.
Sunk in Ottawa…”yappy and prickly arrogance”…ya gotta love Francis because she is RIGHT ON!
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=125287
Garth
You mentioned in an erlier article about how the people treated your wife and dog. What a cheap shot at the finance minister and his wife. I am sure you are not hurting afer the Ottawa citizen showed the digs that you have in Ottawa. In future keep it even and stop trying to mislead the people.
Where’s the cheap shot? He lives in Whitby. He has a family income of more than $300,000. He’s in the yacht-buying class. His wife is an MPP. He’s an MP and cabinet minister. How did I mislead? — Garth
Garth, surely, you must know how hard it was for manufacturers (investment for machinery, etc) to buy when our was low. This is the time for canadian manufacturers to upgrade.
By Catherine on 11.27.07 5:12 am
And therein lies the problem. With a low dollar we can’t buy the foreign equipment to make industry more effecient, productive and competitive. Therefore we allow the low dollar to do that for us.
Then, we have the rapid rise of the dollar, uncontrolled. The competitve edge given by the low dollar sublimates. And now we have old, inefficient equipment. But our exports dry up and manufacturers don’t have the money, even at the favourable exchange rate, to update.
The issue is the speed in which the dollar appreciated. Have manufacturers had time to adjust, buy equipment, become more competitive in the short time from 63c to parity and beyond?
No. And that’s about as much as we could reasonably have asked government to do. Look at reality, put away economic theory from text books and slow down the rise of the dollar to allow time for adjustment.
This governments reaction, zero. Because Canada, as a whole, boosted by oil and resources, is doing well.
That’s called putting your eggs in one (maybe two) baskets. Not a very diversified economy, is it?
Trudeau hasn’t been PM for a very long time and I fail to see what that has to do with the current situations – nadda.
Halton John – you are a pathetic jerk.
Jim Flaherty was a slip and fall lawyer – not an economist or financial expert and I fail to see why he is finanace minister, especially considering what he did to Ontario – in fact, he seems to delight in still hurting his own province.
Kraft is closing in 2008 in my neighbouring small town – will be a loss of 380 people which “devastating” for a small town.
I’m wondering, once the Xmas season is over if there will be a major lay off of retail employees.
Do you consider yourself a good
christian?
By keith phibbs on 11.27.07 7:43 am
How is that relevant?
I would not want to own a business that depended solely on an embarrassingly low CND dollar, would you? Leasa
By Leasa on 11.27.07 7:59 am
Well Leasa, all aren’t fortunate enough to be able to reap the benefits of Dutch agricultural prowess, subsidized by patronage treats afforded from full time blogging.
Some merely work for whomever they can and where they can earn a living wage. Often these folks aren’t privy to the essence of their employers financials.
Even many entrepreneurs don’t understand or aren’t privy to the complete aspects of what marketing their goods involves.
Did you consider this before you blurped out your shallow proclamation?
Oh, and Comrade Chin doesn’t seem to be embarrassed by his low Yuan. In fact, he has been resisting its rise with great effort. Why is that do you suppose??
very amusing to hear all the experts here proclaim: Harper and Flaherty are not economists!
Does that mean that those who built a manufacturing environment on government subsidy and currency exchange (rather than productivity)are what you’d consider good economists?
Do you consider yourself a good
christian?
By keith phibbs on 11.27.07 7:43 am
Fibs –
Why would you ask me that ??
What is your point ??
Why does this matter to you ??
What if I was ??
what if I was not ??
Is this your business ??
I have said it before, and I will say it again.
YOU ARE VERY WEIRD.
I’m curious about where PDQ gets their raw materials. Products like fibre glass, resin, insturmentation, rigging, extruded aluminum etc.
I know some of those things would be imported, no?
They must have some advantages on those imported products. I know you can’t do anything about labour costs but I might suggest this has more to do with buyers in the U.S. simply turning away from luxury item purchases due to their unstable financial situation rather than simply the high Canadian dollar although it would contribute to declining sales.
PDQ could have considered retooling for a different market. Maybe smaller watercraft for a larger audience. Governments could assist manufacturers with this kind of approach to marketing.
OK.
I get it.
If the Libitrons were in power, then Dion would spend his time beating down our dollar.
He would be good at that.
So, now our dollar is beaten down and is a penny or two less in value.
OK
NOW I ASK YOU LIBITRONS. WOULD THIS REALLY MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE ??
NOT.
less gas guzzling, pollution spewing, oil leaking recreational vehicles, so what?
If the dollar did not kill this company the price of fuel or comming recession/depression will. This is just one of things that will be in the history books a sign of our over consumption and decadance. If this company survives more than ten years it will be making small, modest sail craft, the era of the energy pig water craft will soon be over.
Garth, you occasionaly join various posters sniping but rarely do you ever actually argue or answer statements about lying gov stats, the role of monetary inflation and the destruction of purchasing power, the cons of lowering interest rates rather than just pros of creating jobs.
What is your ideal value for the Can dollar?
There is a strong belief in the markets the the U.S. dollar is heading significantly weaker, UPI had an article claiming it would drop 90% in coming years. The Head of the U.S.A General accounting office, David Walker says the U.S. will likely go bankrupt.
Taking the above premiss at least possible, How far down would you be willing to follow the U.S. dollar towards it’s eventual default?
Is it not a role of government, and the BoC to provide sound currency and protect the purchasing power of savings at least as much(if not more) than it’s role to manage jobs.
If not, Why?
If Harper follows the U.S. lead on global warming and afghanistan he’s evil(which he is). If Liberals want to devalue the dollar and follow Bush to monetary disaster that’s good.
Why’s that?
I’d like to see some answers and real discussion by you rather than just automatic naysaying of the Con position and constant one sided harping on lowering interest rates.
Adolph Hitler. Time Magazine’s Man of the Year, Jan 1939. Its a shame historical factoids can be cited without context to incite hatred. It really is.
Postponing Aurora decision poses serious questions: advocacy group
Last Updated: Monday, November 26, 2007 | 9:53 PM AT
CBC News
Postponing the decision on whether to further upgrade Canada’s aging fleet of Aurora patrol aircraft raises questions about the country’s ability to defend its Arctic sovereignty, an advocacy group says.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said protecting Canada’s Arctic sovereignty is one of his government’s top priorities. He pledged to defend the Arctic during the federal election campaign, promising to spend billions on underwater sensors and three new naval ice-breakers, among other things.
But defence sources told the Canadian Press that the National Defence department last week delayed making a decision until Dec. 18, almost one month past the government’s own deadline and at least four days past Parliament’s scheduled Christmas break. Some, including New Democrat MP Peter Stoffer, interpret the delay as a sign the government may be preparing to scrap further upgrades.
The air force is said to be looking at two aircrafts, the P-8A Poseidon and the ASTOR.
The air force is said to be looking at two aircrafts, the P-8A Poseidon and the ASTOR.
The air force is said to be looking at two aircrafts, the P-8A Poseidon and the ASTOR.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2007/11/26/dnd-auroras.html
and,
Canada’s air force cancels surveillance flights to the Arctic for winter
Last Updated: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 | 12:07 AM CT
CBC News
Dan Middlemiss, a defence expert and professor at Dalhousie University, speculated that Canada’s combat mission in Afghanistan is taking huge amounts of money and squeezing missions at home.
“The reality of lack of funds for operations strikes home,” he said. “We’ve seen this earlier this year with the navy’s reduction in its planned exercises at the end of its fiscal year.”
After the navy’s financial woes became public last winter, the federal government found the money to restore the cancelled patrol.
The federal government did not respond to calls on Monday about the reduction in surveillance flights.
Earlier this fall, CBC reported the government halted expensive upgrades on the Aurora fleet. At the time, the Department of National Defence said it would decide by Nov. 20 whether to replace the entire fleet or go ahead with the upgrades.
Dan Middlemiss, a defence expert and professor at Dalhousie University, speculated that Canada’s combat mission in Afghanistan is taking huge amounts of money and squeezing missions at home.
“The reality of lack of funds for operations strikes home,” he said. “We’ve seen this earlier this year with the navy’s reduction in its planned exercises at the end of its fiscal year.”
After the navy’s financial woes became public last winter, the federal government found the money to restore the cancelled patrol.
The federal government did not respond to calls on Monday about the reduction in surveillance flights.
Earlier this fall, CBC reported the government halted expensive upgrades on the Aurora fleet. At the time, the Department of National Defence said it would decide by Nov. 20 whether to replace the entire fleet or go ahead with the upgrades.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/11/13/arctic-surveillance.html
Guess where those P-8A Poseidon and ASTORs are built.
By Greg on 11.27.07 8:35 am
I suggest you read up on China’s reserves. L
Where is a bonus. The Aurora is Lockheed. We’re a Boeing shop now.
Personally, I would not hire either Flaherty or Harper, much less put them in any management position.
Likewise, I have a tad bit of a problem feeling empathy for a company who’s product is designed to satisfy the high end toy market for people who have little general sense of social needs, other than trying to stroke their own egos, and schmooz their wealthy ‘friends’ (most people call such ‘friends’ acquaintances because they disappear like a fart in a tornado when trouble arrives.).
Regardless, the devastation to families, and community, and loss of job skills is very sad.
However, relying on Canada being a Third World currency to extract a profit is also stupid. If people can afford luxury, then they should pay for it, regardless of the currency, otherwise, they can’t afford it to begin with.
Does it say anything about our productivity and quality when supposed big business fail so quickly when they hit the smallest bump in the road? Leasa
By Leasa on 11.27.07 7:59 am
Smallest bump in the road?
Let’s see…65 cent dollar, 1.03 dollar….hmmm, bump in the road.
Rhetorical drivel.
By kpn on 11.27.07 8:58 am
Re goverment defence spending and priorities????? That sir is the 64K$ question. Last year the Navy, Canada’s Senior Service was short 24 million for fuel and the Air Force was short 26 million, nothing changes nothing changes.
Not sure readers are aware but the CAF has resorted to recuiting much older people thus causing problems they can not handle, reports south of border suggest there are as many 20 thousand brian injures not reported plus many thousand stress cases…..PMSH and Peter MacKay have turned a blind eye to the real needs of all serving and vets of the CAF……We indeed have truly have Lions for Lambs and it is sad state of affairs and now PMSH wants to fire General Rick Hillier and replace him with a jr yes man…..may heaven help our brave troops>
I suggest you read up on China’s reserves. L
By Leasa on 11.27.07 9:04 am
I am aware of their reserves, thanks. So?
Beware, technical question to follow. Do you know what they do with foreign currency when it enters China?
By Captain George on 11.27.07 8:21 am
I seriously doubt Harper is smart enough to be able to read the writing on the wall from what happened in Australia. He also seems to miss that Bush is a dead duck President. This cycle of arrogant stupidity is fast drawing to a close for them.
It’s not the value of the dollar that is in the government’s control – but how they handle the situation is.
So far – pretty bad.
Stockwell Day’s response to the following will indicate how much influence the gun lobby has on the CPC won’t it?
“VANCOUVER — Canada’s police boards, police chiefs and rank-and-file officers are urging the federal Conservative government to ignore pressure from the gun lobby and put into effect new rules that will require the marking of all imported firearms.
In a letter to Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day, the heads of the Canadian Police Association, Canadian Association of Police Boards and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police outline their concerns about reports that the government may be about to postpone firearms-marking regulations coming into effect on Saturday.
Those rules will require companies importing firearms into Canada to stamp the country of origin on the weapons, a measure passed in 2004 by the previous Liberal government.”
“I have a tad bit of a problem feeling empathy for a company who’s product is designed to satisfy the high end toy market for people who have little general sense of social needs”
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.27.07 9:12 am
Bill –
It is sad Bill, that you have such a poor and shallow opinion of people who could afford to buy such a boat. There are morons in all walks of life. Look at yourself for-instance. I know many very successful people that could afford such a boat, that have a very high “sense of social needs”. In fact many of them never talk about their massive contributions and often contribute anonymously.
I know a man that pays for prescription drugs for thousands of people that cannot afford them. He is contacted by a group of physicians that hear about these problems through hundreds of drug stores in southern Ontario. This is organized. He spends tens of thousands of dollars each year, helps hundreds of families and yet none of the families know how the prescriptions was paid for.
You have no concept of generosity.
Sad for you Bill, because it is an honor to know, and respect such people.
And BTW, the people like this that I know vote Conservative.
Garth,
I agree on the sentiment that the government needs to be implementing policies to guard against Canadian Dutch Disease.
It’s just a matter of which mechanisms work the best.
If the BoC lowers rates at the same rate as the FED over the next 6 months, this will still do nothing. The markets just don’t care if the BoC keeps pace.
To convince the markets to over-correct the other way, there needs to be a very rapid, and very clear, downward signal and heavy downward pressure on the BoC overnight rate. To have the kind of jolt required to bring the dollar down to .9400 within 3 months, we will need an interest rate cut of 0.75 basis points. To keep it below .9500, we’d need a subsequent 0.50 cut and then another 0.50 cut.
This could actually spark a double whammy of sudden price inflation from a retailer price over-adjustment and energy over-adjustment (“WE HAVE TO RECOUP LOSSES!!! the retailers will cry) and a sudden increase in core inflation. (housing boom + enhanced wealth effect).
Inflation, once it starts going out of control, is very, very expensive to bring back into line. I’ll take the short term pain rather than live through a Japanesque recession, thanks.
I’m also against the government picking winners and losers through the magic of subsidy.
I watched the National last night, where Transport Canada was pounded for its red tape.
There’s an awful lot of red tape in operating a company in Canada.
Maybe making innovation POSSIBLE is a good first step?
Next, I’m confused as to why a luxury boat company would go belly up given the riches of Richistan in the US. Is the currency appreciation just a convenient scapegoat, or was it the straw that broke the camels back?
Our corporate elite are screaming right now because they can’t seem to adjust to the depressed export revenue.
The appreciation in the dollar has been too much, too fast, granted, but aside from screaming, what else can the government do without meddling too much?
I’d like to focus on the workers and worker productivity. I think that offering aid to the workers who are displaced and ensuring that if some of those workers want to start up another manufacturing concern – that the qualified capital be available to them for that.
We’re at a critical time. There are a range of short-term instruments that can be used to alleviate the displacement caused by globalization. There are also a range of medium-term instruments that we can use to encourage a retention of Canadian manufacturing capacity.
I’m alarmed to see that Harper isn’t using either set of instruments available to him.
Some real leadership would be nice.
Where is a bonus. The Aurora is Lockheed. We’re a Boeing shop now.
By Brian Dondo on 11.27.07 9:09 am
Brian – may I ask which company you work for?
From wikipedia (I know its not always correct).
“On June 14, 2004, Boeing won the competition.[2] Initial operating capability is expected to be 2013. The project is expected
to be for at least 108 airframes for the U.S. Navy alone, and perhaps more to other nations operating over 200 P-3s. Project
value is expected to be worth at least $15 billion, or as much as $45 billion. Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Spirit
AeroSystems, Smiths Aerospace, Marshall Aerospace, CFMI, BAE, and Marotta are subcontractors.”
If I understand it from above, these aircraft won’t be available until 2013. What do we do in the meantime?
This cycle of arrogant stupidity is fast drawing to a close.
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.27.07 9:30 am
Bill, you’re partly right. This time Canada was ahead of the curve.
The Canadian dollar will eventually sink to realistic levels most likely in 2008. It will happen on an international basis regardless what the Canadian federal government may attempt.
The party in power will then boast how they brought down the Canadian dollar and Canadians will believe them. So the question is who will be the government after the Spring 2008 election?
Liberals are obviously attempting to blacken the Conservative government over the adverse effects of the high dollar, even though nothing much can be done about it. Canadians, particularly Ontarians, may lay the blame on the Conservatives and vote whole hog for their beloved Dion Liberals.
When the Canadian dollar eventually drops in 2008, the party in power will take full credit for the drop, and Canadians will believe it.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
I seriously doubt Harper is smart enough to be able to read the writing on the wall from what happened in Australia. He also seems to miss that Bush is a dead duck President. This cycle of arrogant stupidity is fast drawing to a close for them.
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.27.07 9:30 am
So the libs really don’t have anything to worry about, do they. Shouldn’t be long til they hold the reins of power.
However, one must wonder why Garth, on a daily basis, brings in his doomsday predictions because of government “mismanagement” and yet the libs don’t do a thing about it. They could topple the government any time they wish. Rather than do that and correct the the “mess” Harper has put the country in, they complain and abstain.
What kind of leadership is that? Where is the concern for Canadians? Where is the concern for PDQ Yachts?
If the liberals have the answers to world problems, lets have an election and get on with the fixing. Trouble is they don’t have the answers and they don’t have the wherewithal to battle in a campaign.
So we are left with Layton as the official opposition by default as the libs abstain. We have the libs scrambling to recruit volunteers to work, trying to stem the exodus of MP resignations, and to find candidates to run.
All in all you could say things are looking pretty bright. We won’t have a liberal government anytime soon.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:40 am
Said who? You’re spinning while trying to deny any actual bad stuff (IT decision reversal, no action on GHGs) done by the Cons.
Tell us, do you believe dinosaurs walked the Earth at the same time as humans over 6000 years ago?
This is an interesting post, Garth; thanks for bringing up this issue.
Regardless of whether PDQ manufactured yachts or toy boats, the fact is, around 100 jobs will be lost. That’s a sad fact wuth which anyone out there who knows what it’s like to lose a job can empathize.
And what’s also sad is how the conservative machine is making this huge loss to several families and communities in Whitby about national productivity and poor business planning, rather than what it’s really about — the current government’s inability to nurture Canada’s economy and use it as a tool to solve problems and help Canadians.
Only government can play the pivotal role in leveraging resources to provide what workers need to succeed. Only government can create the supports for workers and their families as they move across jobs or in and out of the labour force as their life and job circumstances change over time.
Canada should be investing in people and democratizing wealth. The tired “you are on your own†philosophy touted by the half-measure conservatives does nothing to ensure that the prosperity of Canada’s economy is broadly shared amongst all hard working Canadians and their families.
Best,
-R
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.27.07 9:30 am
I call it CRAP CRAVEN Harperization of the Nation.
There is no cure for Harpertension. The knobs are broken on the CRAP CONTROLS and the circuits are crossed. Everything going forward is extremely Harpersensitive. Seniors will cane the CRAP BUFFOONS at the polls. Bring it on!
When our nation is in the mood to do nothing, to take no action on any issues, to not honor our agreements, and to start the corruption, waste, and mismanagement machines going then,,
we will vote liberal.
Until then, please keep complaining.
It’s good for you.
by “we” I meant Canada.
(snip)…is the Province of Quebec where there are hundreds of these types of busineses.
By David Bakody on 11.27.07 7:49 am
Well, I guess you mean small or medium manufacturing companies.
Quite right. My experience here was first career broken by the Separatists getting elected, so big manufacturers started moving out. Lost those job to Ontario, and not many new ones filled the void. So lots of government subsidy to build small business. Unemployed people can get so nasty…
Then, after building a great high-tech internet sector, the bubble burst, so more companies went broke. Lost another great job in telecom (guess who!).
To survive, became a “self employed” consultant, and now, the small clients are cutting back, as they cannot sell their product in USA, their Canadian customers are shopping in the USA so they are losing those customers too – NOT RETAIL. So, again, no work for the “self employed” – another “bragging point” for the CONS that is grossly inaccurate.
Here in Quebec, we may have an advantage, having already suffered from migration of jobs. It is not a pleasant experience. WE still have not recovered.
HOWEVER… we do have a strong safety net mostly due to the provincial governments “socialist” views.
Yunno, I am a staunch Federalist. I fought/fight hard for staying in Canada. Strange, but seeing the CRAP from the neocons, the hate for anything east of Saskatchewan, I am beginning to wonder if the separatist option has its merits…
If I feel this way… how do you think the soft separatist is thinking?
Another thought… Quebec separatism is a positive movement. It is FOR a people and a new nation. It seems the CON/Harperites are more separatist than the Quebecois – but their movement is hateful and AGAINST their “nation”…
Hmmmmm….
I had a another boo at Mr. McCallum’s words, just to be sure I didn’t miss anything the first time. I didn’t. Other than the idea of shortening up the time frame for write offs, I don’t see anything new in his statements. They are a rehash of old policy and anti reduction of taxes musings.
These are band aid measures at best, and will not address the open wounds to come if the dollar remains as it is.
This is disappointing, as it is so yesterday, so LPOC.
Maybe Mr. McCallum should apply for job retraining. Dream weaver maybe?
Gart, if this is the economic expert you have been listening to, its time to find a new horse bud.
When our nation is in the mood to do nothing, to take no action on any issues, to not honor our agreements, and to start the corruption, waste, and mismanagement machines going then,,
we will vote liberal.
Until then, please keep complaining.
It’s good for you.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 10:50 am
If our nation is in the mood to do nothing (KYOTO, Childcare spaces, etc.), to take no action on any issues (KYOTO, Childcare spaces, etc.), to not honor our agreements (KYOTO, Kelowna, etc.), and to continue the waste (Accelerated capital cost allowance for oilsands), and mismanagement machines (the whole current government!) going then,
we will vote in the CRAP/Cons again.
Until then, let’s keep complaining.
It’s good for us.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 10:21 am
Did you just start paying attention to politics in the last 6 months?
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 9:39 am
Nice unverifiable source there HJ.
Did you go to a “special school” too?
If the liberals have the answers to world problems, lets have an election and get on with the fixing.`
By Jim on 11.27.07 10:23 am
Jim,
I agree. If the libs are so unhappy then why don`t they do something about it.
I guess they like crying more than leading.
When the Canadian dollar eventually drops in 2008, the party in power will take full credit for the drop, and Canadians will believe it.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 10:21 am
Harry, unfortinately, like many have pointed out when various neo-clowns were slapping Harper on the back for the high Canadian Dollar, the dollar’s value isn’t controlled by the Government. The CPC Government could have instituted some policies to help slow and steady the Canadian dollar, but like the issue of GHG and the Environment, there has been no action, no policies, no leadership.
For the last year years the dollar has be climbing and it peaked. Yet the damage has been done. We will see job losses because business can not substain rapid changes in the economy like this. Alberta is feeling the pinch of their boom economy too.
Although it is a cynical, the liberals will wait for the damage to come home to roost on the CPC doorstep, and that will be the time that they strike the election bell. Harper will be left defending his lack of leadership, lack of policies and lack of action.
Harper is spending the pantry bare with his short sighted tax cuts and Canadian people will see that at the time of the election too.
Now I could be wrong, maybe everything will work out just fine, maybe the USA will not fall into recession, maybe there will not be job loses and maybe the ever bouncing loonie will not effect the Canadian Economy. Yet given that almost every economist from the major banks are wring their hands about these issue I would bet the mortgage payment on it. I think we are heading into some very weird and turbulent economic times for the next five years while markets adjust, while the world economy moves away from the US Dollar and switches to the Euro.
By Jim on 11.27.07 10:23 am
Can you find it within yourself to stop with the regurgitation? Have you nothing to offer? No solutions? No suggestions?
And I’m still waiting for your answer to my question 2 blogs back Jim Bob. Atsamatter? No answers?
Nice unverifiable source there HJ.
By Greg on 11.27.07 11:25 am
What would you like verified twit ??
I am not sure what “source” you are talking about, or is this your way of asking for help with your herpes prescriptions ??
Don’t try to cry on my shoulder.
“When our nation is …” tired of being Canada, we’ll certainly vote CRAP, John.
Do you consider yourself a good
christian?
By keith phibbs on 11.27.07 7:43 am
Fibs –
Why would you ask me that ??
What is your point ??
Why does this matter to you ??
What if I was ??
what if I was not ??
Is this your business ??
I have said it before, and I will say it again.
YOU ARE VERY WEIRD.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:36
So the answer is yes. Another question.
Why do you post anonymously? You do not want the good people of Milton and Halton to know your true identity. Is it because you are ashamed of your posted comments and your views?
It is real manly of you to make fun of my family name.A name that has been in this country since the very beginning of confederation.But alas,I am a man who was taught to stand behind my views and comments . Not hide behind a moniker and spout hate and lies.
What about you?
There are so many high quality jobs available, those employees have nothing to worry about. There are far too many companies in our country who’s only strategic advantage is a cheap Canadian Dollar. I’m glad the Canadian government isn’t subsidizing these companies.
The sooner Canadian Companies learn to compete with a strong Canadian Dollar, the better we all will be. Subsidies will do nothing but delay the inevitable.
By All Canadian on 11.26.07 11:13 pm
You are missing the point that no company can survive who sells their product in a currency that has decreased close to 30%. We need a government that provides leadership and protects Canadian manufacturing and jobs, not just follows a narrow Council on Foreign Relations “Deep Integration” agenda.
Hi Garth,
Seems another on bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
Yeepppppppp
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 11:12 am
I do appreciate your questioning status quo, but please re-read your words.
“Here in Quebec, we may have an advantage, having already suffered from migration of jobs. It is not a pleasant experience. WE still have not recovered.
HOWEVER… we do have a strong safety net mostly due to the provincial governments “socialist†views.”
Kindly consider the reason for the migration of jobs, in a realistic light, void of emotional consideration. Then realize that the strong safety net has been afforded somewhat, if not largely by the provinces of the day which currently experienced prosperity.
This is what a Nation is about. This is what the emotional manipulation of separatist always fail to inform you of.It is not in their interest or the interest of their personal greed to be more specific, to inform people of the truth. It is in their interest to use emotion, religion or whatever other tool they can find to manipulate Canadians.
I ask you to remember the Black Watch, The Vandoos, the North Novies, Princess Pats, The Winnipeg Rifles and the gunner on the Cannon who gave us the right to stand against idiots and manipulators.
For the greater good of this Country, and its Citizens.
I do, truly understand how you feel.
By Maybe Rhino 11:12AM
Nice post…informative and based on real life experience.
BTW we have but one Canadian $ but in reality the Quebec, NS and NB $ would fundamentally be worth $.65-.70US , the Newfie $ .75-.85US (oil you know), the Ont.and Man $ would be $.70-.80US ,and the Sask., Alberta and BC $ would be $1.10-1.25Us. How do you deal with this reality? Certainly, Flaherity and Harper are not up to the task and the quicker they are history the better.
Ontario is on the cusp of recession and headed for have not status as a province…so where does the money come from for equalization payments? And leave Alberta alone long enough and they will foul their own economic nest…witness the new oil/gas royalty regeime…and then come running for help but there will be nobody left to help them. The resources are ours, the resources are ours they shout and we will rent them out for whatever the market will bear and if, you don’t like it take your money go and as for all these newcomeers to Alberta GET LOST …and this from a Conservative lot.
Hi Garth,
Another one bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
I think it’s the first time since 1913 that this has happened?
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeepppppppp
Tell us, do you believe dinosaurs walked the Earth at the same time as humans over 6000 years ago?
By Jonnay on 11.27.07 10:26 am
This guy keeps spouting this line. Another guy asks someone if they were a Christian.
What is the relevance with what one believes?
Is that what would be referred to as liberal tolerance. Finding out ones religious beliefs and attacking them accordingly?
They already slur people by calling them nazis and KKK. Now their religion.
In a political forum this really speaks of not only desperation but extreme bigotry.
For a party that is supposed be one of the charter and of tolerance, it is clear who the extreme fundamentalists are.
Sorry this is off topic but I did want the people here to read this. 2050 is only 42 years away, this is when John Baird says we will have decreases our GHGs by 60 to 70%. How many more nuclear plants will be up and running? how many more wind farms will appear on our landscapes(or will they be blocked by selfish people who don’t want their view spoiled) How many solar panel farms will there be in this country. I don’t believe in ethnol because that is just taking good farmland that produces food and replace it with a crop to make fuel. How Mr Baird are you going to accomplish this target WHAT IS YOUR PLAN. How many bloggers here would agree to a 1% increase in taxes if the proceeds went into R&D for other sources of engery other than fossel fuels. Just think that in 42 years your children grandchildren will be bringing up families of their own how will we answer them when the air they breath will cause more desease and the health care cost will have sky rocketed.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 11:48 am
I have no doubt that you are not sure of anything other than what others instill in your small mind and orchestrating a BBQ for your local skin head organization.
I find myself thinking that you are not a real human being, but something that is invented in order to represent a great evil. Surely your creators have grasped the concept of WWF. There always has to be a bad guy. Wot?
No reasonably intelligent, somewhat thinking human being could ever consider anything you supposedly post as anything other than incitement of simple minds.
Mr. Harper is not a blithering idiot, and he certainly wouldn’t support a mindless twit like you to speak on his behalf.
very amusing to hear all the experts here proclaim: Harper and Flaherty are not economists!
Does that mean that those who built a manufacturing environment on government subsidy and currency exchange (rather than productivity)are what you’d consider good economists?
By CPC member on 11.27.07 8:36 am
On the contrai …. Stevie hisself says he is an economist. Quote: “he became an economist because he didn’t have the personality to become an accountant like his father and two brothers.”
As for Bubbles – he considers hisself an expert since he devastated the Ontario economy.
So tell us who built manufacturing environment on government subsidy and currency exchange? How about a list of names?
Hi Garth,
Another one bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
I think it’s the first time since 1913 that this has happened?
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeepppppppp
By Lynne Miller on 11.27.07 12:05 pm
Does that mean he could go to jail?
Justice Minister says he can’t delay Schreiber extradition
DANIEL LEBLANC AND BRODIE FENLON
Globe and Mail Update and Canadian Press
November 27, 2007 at 12:22 PM EST
Federal Justice Minister Rob Nicholson says he has no power to delay the extradition of Karlheinz Schreiber so the lobbyist can testify before a House of Commons ethics committee.
In a letter Tuesday, Mr. Nicholson rejected a request by committee chairman Paul Szabo to delay the extradition and to order Mr. Schreiber to appear. Mr. Nicholson said only Parliament has the power to compel his testimony and it should act “expeditiously†before Saturday, when Mr. Schreiber is scheduled to be deported to Germany.
“In out system of government … it would not be appropriate for the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada to seek to enforce the summons of a parliamenty committee,†Mr. Nicholson wrote.
“There is no broad general discretion to delay [extradition]. I would therefore encourage the committee to proceed expeditiously.â€
Mr. Szabo insisted Mr. Nicholson does have the authority, and warned that if he doesn’t act, he could be found in contempt of Parliament.
This looks like a fun read.
Check it out.
“Jean Chretien: Legacy of Scandal”
by Paul Tuns
Makes you think doesn’t it.
……………………………..
Here is another great book.
“Young Trudeau: Son of Quebec.”
Who would have thought that Trudeau was an anti-Semitic admirer of Hitler and openly called for revolution against our government, and pined for an independent and French-only Quebec.
Who would have thought that -
those rightwing ‘hysterics’ were worried about Hitler at the time when Trudeau was riding his motorbike around war-time Montreal in Nazi regalia insulting Jews.
Just makes you all choked up with pride.
What a wonderful history you liberals have.
By Greg on 11.27.07 12:02 pm
All good reasons to NOT separate. All good reasons for not trashing a region less fortunate than the richer areas. All good reasons for equalization – FAIRLY applied. And, the reason I am still a staunch Federalist.
But you may miss the point. Quebec separatism does not trash BC, nor Alberta, not Ontario, nor the Maritimes. Not the same I hear from the apparently western posters here.
The only “advantage” in having experienced major job loss, is our property values remain low, our economy much more flexible now and so can adapt fairly quickly due to practice. Believe me, it is not pleasant; not desired.
As far as the Military references, my friends include one Major and two Captains in the Forces, and regulars in the RCR, Princess Pats, and Supply. I lost a friend in ‘Nam fighting for the US Marines as he believed in fighting for democracy(?). My father was on North Atlantic patrol in a corvette, my uncles in the RCAF/RAF. Their sacrifice must never be forgotten. Nor, should their legacy be used for aggressive duty – rather peacekeeping. Never to support illegitimate political goals – rather to insure freedom. I am VERY concerned we are losing the international respect gained by mediating difficult circumstances due to a penchant to prop up foreign interests.
Our military was once in great demand to maintain peace, and provide impartial support between factions. I wonder how they feel in the Middle East now. Still “impartial resource”???
Peace, bro’… not war…
miltonman and haltonjohn,
Why do you post anonymously? You do not want the good people of Milton and Halton to know your true identity. Is it because you are ashamed of your posted comments and your views?
It is real manly of you to make fun of my family name.A name that has been in this country since the very beginning of confederation.But alas,I am a man who was taught to stand behind my views and comments . Not hide behind a moniker and spout hate and lies.
What about you?
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 11:54 am
YOU ARE VERY WEIRD.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:36
So the answer is yes.
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 11:54 am
Need I say more.
Keith – If you would like, I may be able to arrange help for you. Let me know. Your confused rhetoric is a symptom of stroke.
“Another guy asks someone if they were a Christian”
by Jim
I asked if he thought he was a GOOD christian.Big difference.
It does matter if a hateful person is using Jesus Christ good name and his very peaceful teachings to further his own agenda .Have you ever read the bible ?
By Miltonman on 11.27.07 12:35 pm
Did you go to a “Special School”?
Hi Garth,
Another one bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
I think it’s the first time since 1913 that this has happened?
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeepppppppp
By Lynne Miller on 11.27.07 12:05 pm
You’re wrong. But not on the point you were asking about.
Mr. Nicholson is NOT in contempt of Parliament. Mr. Szabo claims that he COULD be in contempt. I suggest you check the facts first before spouting off.
http://tinyurl.com/23yluc
http://tinyurl.com/2xd499
By Greg on 11.27.07 12:33 pm
Greg -
You are rambling again.
Steady now.
Take a deep breath.
Thaaaat’s it.
OK.
Now, what was it that you would like verified ??
and,
I am still not sure what “source†you are talking about.
and,
Are you still asking for help with your herpes prescriptions ??
Please help me understand your problem.
I want to help.
By Geoffrey L. on 11.27.07 11:59 am
Geoffrey, When you say “no company can survive who sells their product in a currency that has decreased close to 30%.” you are dead wrong. Companies can survive but it takes a pro-active approach. With our high dollar companies can now re-invest in more modern tools to help lower labour costs. Companies such as the one I work for can outsource and subsidize high Canadian wages to lower paying countries. The company I work for sell 95% of what we make to a U.S. market. Our owner anticipating a large rise in the Canadian dollar started working with manufacturing plants in Malaysia. We now sub-let our high labour work to Malaysia and keep our unprofitable Canadian plant running still as the loss is recovered by the profit made from utilizing off shore work. It is not perfect but it is working. We are continuing to recieve contracts from our U.S. customers as we are still competitive. Other companies could have had the same fore sight and the ones that didn’t will ultimatly fail for thei lack of vision.
By Michael on 11.27.07 12:03 pm
I am also concerned about Ontario heading downhill. They are about to experience what we went through in the early ’80′s as manufacturing jobs leave to be replaced by lower paying “service sector” McJobs.
BTW, who buys the service if they have no money? What happens when margins shrink due to competitive markets – too many pizzerias?
But, let’s not get lost in the dollar value. There is also the outsourcing that puts money into the “Executive Branch” pockets, and puts the middle class out the door. I thought “Free Trade” was supposed to be “Fair Trade” – not a way to make the rich richer.
I think it was here I read that the service sector now holds over 70% of our GDP. WE have fewer “producers”, and more “consumers”. So, the income gap grows, and with it WILL COME social unrest. Just look south to see gated communities, ghettos, violent crime stats. Just look to the Middle East, where poverty, lack of employment, little hope for future has created desparation.
Dylan said it well “if ya ain’t got nuthin’, ya ain’t got nuthin to lose”. Even criminal prisoners get fed and kept warm in the winter – by our tax dollars.
I am a man who was taught to stand behind my views and comments . Not hide behind a moniker and spout hate and lies.
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 11:54 am
Keith –
We all know your real name is Richardo
Lapopski. It’s OK.
PS. Richardo –
Most posters on all blogs use a moniker.
It’s more fun that way.
Another question.
Why do you post anonymously?
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 11:54 am
When one visits their local Tim Hortons they do so publicly, not anonymously. The grocer, the barber all public. There is a security in familiarity.
However, when one visits the World Wide Web it is quite prudent to protect ones identity. One never knows who lurks in the dark.
The libs on this forum pressed Leasa to reveal her identity. She revealed it as well as her occupation, where she lives.
I wonder why someone would require that information. What enhancement to a political debate could come from that?
Be wise people. Do not be intimidated by those who attack you personally and then request your identity. Nothing good can come from that.
OK.
I get it.
If the Libitrons were in power, then Dion would spend his time beating down our dollar.
He would be good at that.
So, now our dollar is beaten down and is a penny or two less in value.
OK
NOW I ASK YOU LIBITRONS. WOULD THIS REALLY MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE ??
NOT.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:40 am
Is this little name game like the Libitrons and CONstructobots? So is Dion equal to Optimus Prime and harper equal to Megatron?
Are you implying your the bad guys here johnbot? Who might you be equated to? Starscream? I think thats about right. You have the script down pat.
Milton pops up every day, trolls for attention, and then goes away.
Best to just ignore his anti-everything rants.
Garth, why is it that only 22% of Torontonians qualify for EI? The employment rate in this city is surely higher than 60%.
As Gilles Duceppe says with reference to seasonal workers in Quebec – the workers pay into employment insurance – they’re entitled to get more money out than they put in.
Many Torontonians have paid into EI their entire lives without drawing a cent. Why isn’t the system accessible to Toronto workers when they need the program?
Do you think that people in Milton are going to ‘take’ that kind of abuse if many of them are laid off, and can’t access EI?
Why the double standard? Why do workers in one region take out a buck for every 10 cents they put in, but workers who contribute for years can’t access the programme at all?
LOL – chuckle – getting advice from Halton John who’s lightbulb isn’t totally on.
You know, why just look for Liberal scandals – why not start with Sir. John A and forward – they all had their problems.
Hi Garth,
Another one bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
I think it’s the first time since 1913 that this has happened?
Correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeepppppppp
By Lynne Miller on 11.27.07 12:05 pm
Get your facts straight kiddo. The only way he would be in contemp of parliament would be if he didn’t carryout what is in a Speakers Warrant. Quit spreading false information when you don’t know what you are talking about.
By Miltonman 12:35PM or is it Piltdown Man?
I expecteded the Cons to start the chatacter assassination of Trudeau and Chretien…it is their nature to tear down what is not to their liking and replace it with the grotesque. Trudeau evolved into a good decent human being and carried out the duties of Prime Minister with wisdom, guts, integrity and a genuine love for Canada as a nation. He earned the respect and admiration of many and revolted the few who are easily revolted. Chretien did well as the Prime Minister and we owe him a debt of gratitude for a job well done. When Mulroney got his hand caught in the cookie jar he didn’t have enough sense to let go…and now he regrets it…otherwise I would still hold him in fairly high regard.
It is easy for the Cons to dig up dirt as they were born in a cesspool…it is a noble thing to see the good in others.
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye.”
By SJ on 11.27.07 1:00 pm
SJ –
No.
Harper is Optimus Prime, the largest, strongest, and wisest of all.
His role is the protection of all life, and to defend Canadians from the corrupt Decepticon Libitrons.
Ok. I’m happy that’s over with.
Be wise people. Do not be intimidated by those who attack you personally and then request your identity. Nothing good can come from that.
By Jim on 11.27.07 12:56 pm
Jim, you better to learn to read all the words in my posts.I will correct you again.I did not ask who they real identities are. I asked why they want to remain anonymous when they post.Is it because they are really ashamed and embarassed about their posts? Are they not man enough to stand behind their own words?
interesting reading in the Hill Times …
Dion has isolated himself from campaign and OLO people, Grits say
Some Liberals bracing for another 1984-style election win of 40 seats, hope to win 80 seats in next run.
Peace, bro’… not war…
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 12:40 pm
Peace Bro, don’t cha know.
I can trace a Family Military history from the Fenian Raids, to the Boer War and all the way up to and including Vietnam and the Balkans.
Thus is the stage from which I attempt to convey a message of unity, decency, hope and determination.
Remembrance Day, is every day for me. I try my best to respect the efforts of those who preceded us and my own experiences.
I remember my Mother telling me that my Father didn’t join the Army as an Artilleryman out of patriotic sentiment, but as a result of needing to feel that he was contributing to his family. There were no jobs in the Maritimes in 1939, so in December 1939, he was one of the first of a contingent of Canadian Soldiers to board a ship in Halifax, bound for England, to defend King and Country. And Mother France too, for those of short memory.
Moving forward to contemporary times, I fully appreciate the influences of outside forces. Of politicos who arbitrarily decide the destiny of the citizenry. More often than not, without due consideration, understanding and certainly not with compassion.
Is why I post here.
I am not impressed with the judgement of contemporary leaders. I question the wisdom oft times of past leaders as well. I remember the broken promises and to paraphrase Mr. Billy Boy from Amerika, “Stupidity is repeating the same mistakes repeatedly”.
This is what we do. We don’t learn from History, and we don’t see things as they really are. We are too willing to sell our souls for 30 pieces of silver.
I was born to a Mother who at 17 lived through the Battle of Britain, and met my Father the night that the docks of London burned so brightly by the flames of the Nazi bombs, that she told me it was just like daylight.
I know what Napalm smells like.
Together we stand, united we will fall. Global warming is our contemporary fight. It requires Soldiers of conscience and fortitude. Cowards,should kindly step aside and make way for courage.
By Jim on 11.27.07 12:56 pm
Hi Jim, It was pretty weird when MB pressed so hard to know who I was, but is terrified and so unsure of him/herself and maybe so ashamed of what he/she posts that she cannot say who she is. I guess it makes it easier to slag people and just be mean because, well, they are mean people. Liberals..go figure. For me, I am used to being ‘out there’, I have given talks in public, have been published several times, heck, I’ve even been on a couple of t.v. shows. My theory is; if you don’t say anything to be ashamed of, why hide? I don’t think this is any more dangerous than the venues I’ve been involved in before, even being printed in a phone book can be dangerous. It’s people who have something to fear that are the most afraid of being ‘found out’. Just look at one example we’ve seen here, Scott Reid…how hard did he try to hide his identity? Very. Why? Because he was saying the absolute most hateful things to people that it was shameful. People love not having to be accountable for what they say. I’ll bet that all of the people in chats and who participate in boards like this would never say any of crap they do if it was face to face.
I figure, if Garth doesn’t have to hide, why would I? How can I truly stand up for what I believe if I’m afraid to say it and have my name put to it? I do not fear the Petro-whatchamacallit’s one bit because most don’t venture too far from home or mom’s basement to bother. LOL
That’s just my opinion. Who knows? Maybe someday I’ll be proven wrong that openness and accountability for one’s word does not fit into today’s society and the WWW. Hope not. Leasa
By Michael on 11.27.07 1:11 pm
Michael –
Hitler was a wonderful grandpa.
Happy now ?? Twit.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 12:49 pm
Is that the best you can do? Have you nothing else to offer?
Do you think you represent Mr. Harper and the CPC party?
Honestly? What kind of aberration are you really?
Together we stand, united we will fall.
By Greg on 11.27.07 1:36 pm
That was meant to be, divided we fall. Sorry.
Have you ever read the bible ?
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 12:44 pm
What is the relevance to that in a political debate?
I you are wanting a biblical discussion say so. Drop the politics and discuss your issue.
By Marc on 11.27.07 12:53 pm
Your employer is smart because of outsourcing? Is that all it takes to show business acumen, today?
A real economist, of course, will tell you there’s no such thing as a labour shortage in Canada–there’s a cheap labour shortage. From a worker’s viewpoint, many so-called shortages could quickly be solved if employers were to offer more money. And worldwide, millions of people still can’t find jobs.
The strongest evidence that there’s no general shortage today is that overall worker pay has barely outpaced inflation. If supply and demand rules everything, how can we have a real labour supply shortage at the same time wages (the monetized manifestation of employer demand for labour) continue to stagnate?
-R
By Leasa on 11.27.07 1:37 pm
Leasa, you did not respond to my question. Again. Have you no face? Is it that the difficult questions you have no answers for or is it that you only want to influence weak minds, or is it that you get rewards by the word?
Fess up Fairy Gart Mudder. I’m calling you out.
Note. You are speaking to Jim Bob. Is that the only audience you have left?
Now, what was it that you would like verified ??
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 12:49 pm
The philanthropic benefactor to which you refer.
Milton Man, you have convinced me. I never vote for Trudeau for PM. Now where’s that list you were working on. I really need to be convinced not to vote for Chretein or Martin to.
By Jim on 11.27.07 12:56 pm
You probably don’t remember, but some of my personal and work information was posted in a comment a while back by a commentor known as “Old Enough To Remember.”
Interestingly, it wasn’t a “lib” who took this liberty. Rather, it was an agitator from the conservative side of the spectrum who did it out of his own freewill.
And, like I told him, I’m not worried, I’m using my real name because I have nothing to hide.
Best
-R
“Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye.â€
By Michael on 11.27.07 1:11 pm
I find it interesting that you would quote this line by thine own hand.
Oh,,, interesting,,,
This info about Trudeau being a Hitler lover is quite interesting. For more information – Google, Trudeau Hitler.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
I hope this isn’t tipical of the people in all levels of government today, or we are all in deeper trouble than I thought. What has the education system been teaching people, How to be critical-thinkers and good planners?
Are people in government paying attention? Does no know read or under stand the IPCC reports on what man has already set in motion regarding climate change. If we don’t stop using the planets atmosprere as a CO2 carbon dump before 2012 the future for ALL human beings(you & your kids) with see the most brutal effects, it will not be good at all!
From Letter to editor, Globe&mail,Nov.26
‘Mr. Flaherty asserts, “One doesn’t be a mayor and think only about tomorrow morning. One should think about what’s going to be worn out 10,20 years from now.” As a citizen, I agree.
I asked my borough mayor, in writting, if she is aware how climate change will impact municipal infrastructure, and if she and council evaluated what impacts proposed projects will have on the city finances, the environment and public health.
She wrote back saying that Montreal’s urban plan deals with local and regional problems and not with international concerns like climate change, which are consrens for other levels of government.
This apptoach could be dangerous to the health and safety of citizens, especially when city officials spend money on old-style development projects, promoting more sprawl, road and dirty air, with no forethought.
Lewis Puolin, Pierre-Roxboro, Que.’
I hope ALL levels of goverment start to plan for the effect of climate change and help us all make the changes we need to do NOW, before 2012!!!
(What kind of glass bubble is the mayor above living in?)
They also need to understand peak-oil.
Gas will be $200/barrel sooner than you thing, and then we’ll be all out of oil and gas soon at pressent rates uses/projected growth. We need to change were we are getting our energy from to run everything, or else.
Were are you going to get the energy to keep the lights on, find food, pump drinking water, run furnace fans, A/C units, geo-thermal pumps, rechange battiers, make hydrogen, even when the wind isn’t blowing????
People that normally don’t run for govermnet need to! We need critical-thinkers and good long term planners. You need to start asking the government at all levels what there plans are to help us all deal with climate change. Get away from carbon energy sources, and cope with peak-oil! Maybe you need to educate them, some don’t seem to be paying attention or even care about there own kids future.
From what I’ve found out, at least in the short tearm, we have to stop burning fossil fuels to generate the energy we are all now using in time, now/before 2012 (IPCC report), we need to build more safe, clean, reliable, Canadian CANDU nuclear power stations, to keep the lights on. You can build Canadian CANDUs beside my home. I have found out the facts and do not fear them. They can’t blow up or melt down. They safty store the used fuel, it doesn’t get out. Not smog or greenhousse gasses, just clean electricaity to run our modern sociteity.
The last few CANDU 6 have been built on time, about 4 years, and under budget!
Avalible low cost energy is what make our high standard of living today possible. Cheap oil is running out!
Cheap energy from burning fossil fuel is causing climate change. We need to stop before 2012 or else it’s going to be brutal, there will be no were to hide.
Try and act locally as you can and think globally.
By Jim on 11.27.07 12:56 pm
Jim –
I agree.
I also think Keith Phibbs could be a bit creepy, and I know he is a phibber.
Canadian Conservative Taxation – 101
The federal Conservative government intends to lower taxation and to rationalize the federal government down to it’s essential activities.
Provincial governments will impose their own taxation regimes as federal taxation is reduced. e.g. Ontario should increase it’s taxation to subsidize it’s manufacturing sector due to the high dollar.
The fewer layers of government handling taxpayer’s money, it will be more efficient and economical. Cities expecting the federal government to finance their deficits is inefficient and quite inappropriate. The fewer politicians handling tax money, the better.
Each province will assess their own needs and determine what actions and taxation are necessary. Equalization transfers will still be made based on overall needs of each region, as is the national tradition.
This is how Canada should be efficiently governed without overtaxing the One Taxpayer. The less government the better, because Canada’s governments at all levels are bloated with liberal socialistic parasites.
Oh I think my analogy of Dion = Optimus is spot on.
From hence forth he shall be known as “Optimus (Dion) Prime” leader of the Libitrons! And the deceptiCON “leader” shall be known as “Mega(harpo)tron”.
I can hear the theme toon now.
(write the theme toon, sing the theme toon lol any Little Britain fans out there?)
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 2:12 pm
For more information Google Preston Bush, Nazi.
By Leasa on 11.27.07 1:37 pm
Leasa, I just used your experience as an example. Everyone is free to do as they wish. But I don’t think people should be pressured to reveal their identity if they choose not to.
Regarding Scott Reid, if that is the same “beer and popcorn” Scott Reid, his venomous posts are not surprizing. In general the quality of the posts on this forum is quite poor. There is no moderator to to ensure profanity and extremist rhetoric is controlled. However, revealing ones personal identity is not the answer, fair and equitable moderator is.
Although Garth has deleted some of my posts when I have asked him questions about his conduct that he was either unwilling or unable to answer. Selective moderation. Extreme rhetoric and bigotry is acceptable but MP behaviour and political party policy inquiry is censored.
Thats how a board gets out of control.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 2:12 pm
Jesus, HJ, don’t you know? Google is just like statistics and the bible–you can get it to say whatever you want it to say.
How about this Web page?
Hitler Connection To Vicente Fox And Indirect Links To Stephen Harper Exposed
Please, use some common sense.
-R
This info about Trudeau being a Hitler lover is quite interesting. For more information – Google, Trudeau Hitler.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 2:12 pm
Seems like all the same buttercup don’t it?
Poseur.
By Marc on 11.27.07 12:53 pm
Let’s see what you say when YOUR job is out sourced…
A lot of middle class folks are suffering due to attitudes like yours.
More personal attacks by haltonjohn.
Big surprise.
Sounds like I hit a softspot with these articles :
Haltonjohnmiltonman,
Please take some time and open your minds.
WHITE PRIVILEGE
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/whiteprivilege.htm
Root of Homophobia
http://www.psych.org/pnews/96-09-20/phobia.html
Fact sheet from the dept. of justice
http://justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/spousal_abuse_fact_sheet.pdf
By keith phibbs on 11.27.07 7:58 a
What is wrong haltonjohn did these issues hit too close to home for you?
I am trying to find an article about nameless cowards like yourself.
By Jim on 11.27.07 12:56 pm
Jim -
I agree.
I also think Keith Phibbs could be a bit creepy, and I know he is a phibber.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 2:16 pm
Your level of intellect would be astounding to an Ant. Your sense of humor though, I expect would be questionable even in the forum of the Ant collective.
Please Mr. Editor, come up with better versions of World Wrestling Federation Evil Culprits.
Of interest:
Taqua, Abu Dhabi State Energy purchases approved by Canadian government. This is the third purchase since May.
Abu Dhabi has also taken a stake in the U.S. Biggest bank today.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
Government taxation 102.
When a higher level of government rationalises down its activities, expecting a lower level of government to pick up the slack, two things occur:
1. The taxpayer pays more, as the reduction from the higher level of government tax regime is always less than the increase from the lower level tax regime.
2. Things get totally messed up.
See Walkerton, see downloading (and uploading), see Mike Harris/Ernie Eves/Jim Flaherty for how overall taxes in Ontario went up, and service levels went down.
Now if only they would realise that the Federal Taxpayer, the provincial tax payer and the municipal tax payer are al one and the same. And if only the levels of government would agree to who should do what instead of the higher level dumping on the lower level, we might get somewhere.
Interesting how the silly CPC war-room employees keep attacking whatever secondary message/question I have added, instead of actually answering for their actions I point out in the first.
Also, I’m no liberal voter, though I’d vote for Garth if he were running in my riding.
When you talk about bigotry and extremism, I see good old Myron, and Doris, among others. I was quick to dismiss Marc the other day, but I was in error, as the truth is that a simple question with an obvious answer is simply too hard to answer for hardcore CPC members (= PMO employees), because answering what’s in their hearts would turn out to make a fool of themselves.
I think it’s most important to realize that a religion which promotes killing of infidels or persecution of gays, either by scriptures or by words of its highest officials, is indeed deserving of a mention as such: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
So when I make a provocative statement like “cons lied about ITs” I get no reply, but when I mention dinos you get all insulted? Sup with that?
By HaltonJohn 12:35
Hitler was a failed leader and an evil doer at that. History is replete with failed leaders/leadership but, of course, the Cons are the experts on leadership. Nevertheless, Hitler did lead the world out of the great depression and set in motion the greatest industrial revolution known to man. People followed him either out of ignorance, stupidity or self interest to the chagrin and regret of many.He craved adoration and the people willing gave it to him and he begat evil the likes of which was never before experienced by mankind. We must hold our leaders to the highest standards of moral conduct, decency, integrity, truthfullness, ability and expect nothing less from them.
Shalom.
Jim, you better to learn to read all the words in my posts.I will correct you again.I did not ask who they real identities are. I asked why they want to remain anonymous when they post.Is it because they are really ashamed and embarassed about their posts? Are they not man enough to stand behind their own words?
By Keith Phibbs on 11.27.07 1:15 pm
Pardon my lack of understanding semantics.
Anyway, if one is posting anonymously does that mean they are “not man enough” to stand behind their words? What does this mean? Is that a challege to go out behind the barn for a donny brook?
To stand behind ones word on an internet site would only require one to be able to articulate a defense of what they say. It doesn’t require one to be a “man”, unless you are saying only men can debate politics. It doesn’t require one to be adept at fisticuffs. It requires an ability to formulate an argument.
What difference does it make what ones name is?
Seems another on bites the dust.
Justice Minister in contempt of Parliament.
Yeepppppppp
By Lynne Miller on 11.27.07 12:01 pm
Actually that is incorrect, he is not in contempt until the final day. Justice Minister Rob Nicholson has until Karl is booted from the country. While Justice Minister Rob Nicholson claims he doesn’t have the authority to delay Schreiber’s extradition. Parliamentary counsel Rob Walsh, says the Extradition Act gives the justice minister authority to amend extradition orders. There are actually several ways for him to do it to. If Justice Minister Rob Nicholson fails to act and comply with the will of Parliament, then he can found in contempt, providing Parliament wish to pursue a contempt charge, which isn’t a certain.
I still think this all political theater and a waste of time. While there are some interesting questions to ask and maybe some interesting answers to be heard.
What is really interesting is the response from the CPC members,…
“In response, the committee passed a motion calling for a Speaker’s warrant – a rarely used tool similar to a subpoena – to get Mr. Schreiber before MPs as soon as possible and to make him “available until discharge by the committee.â€
The minority Conservatives voted against the motion, but lost to the other three opposition parties.”
The Parliamentary Subpoena becomes necessary because Justice Minister Rob Nicholson refuses or claims he doesn’t have the power to enforce the Committee Summons.
So Harper want the inquiry, yet his Minister of Justice claims he can’t overrule the extradition, even though Parliamentary counsel Rob Walsh, says the Extradition Act gives the Justice Minister authority to amend extradition orders. So the Justice Minister states, “Hey only Parliament can intervene by ordering a subpoena,…” To which Committee draws up a motion to calling for a Speaker’s warrant, to which the CPC members of the Committee voted to block, all of the CPC Members on the Committee.
This whole business between Karl and Brian doesn’t interest me, Harper’s response and the actions of CPC Ministers and CPC MP’s is very interesting. Of course they may be doing all of this to be complete arse-holes or maybe not. Yet the message seems to get clearer and clearer, they don’t KHS available to testify.
This is how Canada should be efficiently governed without overtaxing the One Taxpayer. The less government the better, because Canada’s governments at all levels are bloated with liberal socialistic parasites.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
So you must be furious with Harpers plans to add more MPs. I mean if Harper really wanted to equalize the representation AND be fiscally responsible at the same time, he should have proposed a reduction of the number of seats in the HoC. Instead he’s proposing to add bloat to the HoC, which will cost more $$ and still not properly address the issue of fair representation.
This is what we have come to expect from PMSH – high priced, half-baked solutions.
Harper is done – it is only a matter of time.
For petty vindictiveness, this ‘small’ Prime Minister takes the cake. No sign yet from this ‘small’ “leader” that the coming 50th anniversary of the great Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson’s Nobel Peace Prize is to be acknowleged and celebrated.
As for you, Halton John, try googling the names Harper and Lamer (recently deceased Judge)to see how your fearless leader has been attempting to influence justice. He’s a very ‘small’ democrat, isn’t he?
….”no company can survive who sells their product”…. This statement should read, ….”no company can survive THAT SELLS ITS (not it’s) PRODUCT”……
It’s (not its) people/WHO and things/THAT.
DUH!!!!
“Companies such as the one I work for can outsource and subsidize high Canadian wages to lower paying countries. ”
By Marc on 11.27.07 12:53 pm
Yunno… I am very tired about this over simplification of reality. You see, it often goes like this:
First – outsource low paying jobs “only”
Well, that means no more supervisors – lay ‘em off.
Well, no need for middle management – lay ‘em off
Well, no need for as many purchasing managers for materials – lay ‘em off
Well, less need for process engineering or production engineering so lay ‘em off
Well, less accounting to be done – lay ‘em off
Well, fewer shifts so less maintenance to be done – ‘lay ‘em off
Well, fewer needs for office support – lay ‘em off
Well, now we can get programmers cheaper in India – lay ‘em off
Well, call centers are cheaper overseas – lay ‘em off
Well, since there are less labour jobs making widgets, we need less local materials or support, so now the same cycle starts with medium companies
Then with small companies.
So, under the guise of “cheaper labour only”, you have significantly heavy ripple effect, so need less accountants, engineers, programmers, skilled tradespeople, professional management, and on, and on and on…
The ONLY people who end up benefitting are the company owners who focus on PROFIT, or shareholders. The majority suffer for the benefit of a minority.
And, dare I say what are the environmental costs to the world? Weak pollution regulations in “developing” countries (and the CONS do not want to provide leadership here). How much fuel is spent shipping things that could be made locally in from thousands of miles away? An so on and so on…
The COSTS of outsourcing/off-shoring are not immediately evident unless you THINK! The social, economic and environmental costs FAR outstrip the profit return for so few people.
Better have a homebrew… I can’t afford to let this jerk get to me….
Cheers!
Hey Greg! (smile)
My Dad used to recount tales of shore leave in UK. How the Brits used to get annoyed at Canucks who would go ashore with their pay packets, and goods from Canada that local Brits could not get. Seems it really helped in meeting lady-folk! Nice to know that at least one War-bride story worked out!!
Cheers!!!
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
What is the current percentage of revenue coming in to the federal government by province?
Alberta and Ontario would probably benefit by this, but what of the other provinces?
By Greg on 11.27.07 2:03 pm
Greg – Read my post again at,
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 9:39 am
and put on your comprehension hat and stop asking stupid questions. If my helpful friend wanted a “prize pack” he would not want it from a idiot like you.
He helps more people in an average month, then you will in your life.
Compared to him, you are an insignificant spec of dirt.
Go back to your hole.
Or better yet, go help someone.
…………………………
Libitrons –
Know the facts,
Conservatives are far more generous when it comes to giving, and charity.
This is because, like usual, liberals are full of crap and hot air. All talk, no action.
Get off your sorry asses and help someone for change and stop just talking about it.
The proof of this even shows in politics. What did Garth raise the other day for an MP friend in trouble ??
$4.
Even the LPC is just about broke. That’s because of cheapo’s like you on this blog. All talk, no action.
It’s also why the Conservative are flush with cash. Because unlike liberals, Conservatives are helpful, generous and supportive.
Every little bit helps doesnt it.
Prime Minister with wisdom, guts, integrity and a genuine love for Canada as a nation.
Actually, he was an arrogant egomaniac who was just looking for his place in the history books…
e.g. Ontario should increase it’s taxation to subsidize it’s manufacturing sector due to the high dollar.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
If the high dollar continues, who is going to be left to taxes Harry? The civil servants that you want done away with?
Whatever is it that makes you think that provincial civil servants are so much better or different than federal ones? Can you supply references that support your expertise on this issue?
For that matter Harry, can you supply references on your expertise on anything at all? I suggest you can’t, as your posts reflect an inexperienced person who likes very much to see their opinions in print. Nothing else though.
Kindly advise as to how I may have misconstrued any facts please.
I don’t always like being right but I have been predicting the problems Ontario is facing today since 2000. There are many reasons that this is happening but there is a great deal of blame to place on government and the business sector as well as a public lulled to sleep by temporary prosperity.
Governments tend to follow the economic wants of corporate elites. They don’t consider the larger picture because they only think to the next election. The upper level bureaucrats become socialized into the political and corporate elite and eventually we begin to witness the creation of a one-dimentional governmental culture that is remote and self-promoting.
Universities, which should be encouraging progressive thought, often do everything they can to inhibit it.
Society became driven by the ideology of corporate globalization and Ontario, because of government was always successful in protecting it, had the most to lose. “Free trade,” globalization, North American integration have all served to undermine the ability of government to act on behalf of citizens and that is what right wing corporatism has always sought. Now they have it and they are demanding that government escalate the movement of our resources into their hands to promote their competitive advantage in the global race for economic power.
Governments were lulled by the prosperity generated in the early days of this movement into going with the flow.
Now we are moving even further towards handing over our assets to the economic elite with the privatization of our common wealth through public private partnership, outsourcing production and driving down incomes, lowering corporate taxes and downloading the tax burden more and more onto the middle and lower income groups, while generating massive wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer individuals.
Where will it end? It will end with increasely violent urban ghettos, with massive unrest and anger.
We have been following a direction that is not sustainable and unless we start seeking ways to transition from the old production and destruction economy I am afraid things are going to blow up relatively quickly.
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 2:36 pm
The thing is with outsourcing is it has saved our jobs. Why would someone run a money losing company? Outsource high value, labour intensive work and we can continue to make products that are worth less and require less labour to produce. Our owner had 2 options to face. Continue the way he was for the last 25 years and most likely not reach the 27th year and layoff every worker in the plant while he closes the doors. Other option is outsource money losing work to a country where labour is cheaper and subsidize a money losing situation with it. He chose option 2 which is a good option in my opinion. In numbers the company has not had to layoff anyone as of yet and not likely with the work we continue to be awarded. While we lose some labour intensive work we win by keeping our jobs. We could well have been right with the yacht maunufacturer and closed down completly so pick your poison.
I do have many qualifications and live in a part of the country that has an abundence of work though so am not too concerned at the moment. I have seen hardly any youth entering my trade so am not too concerned about competing for work in a flooded market in the future.
Know the facts,
Conservatives are far more generous when it comes to giving, and charity.
This is because, like usual, liberals are full of crap and hot air. All talk, no action.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 3:36 pm
Really John? Do you have any evidence to support this claim, and please don’t embarrass yourself by referencing something from Bill oh’Really at Faux Noise.
By Ed Brooks 12;35
Yes, Ed, you play the cards that fate deals you and Trudeau played his very well. If you had met the man in person you would have found a very likable and humble genrleman. However, he talked the talk and he walked the walk on the political stage.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 3:36 pm
Nice unverifiable source there HJ.
You almost give the other imaginary characters credulence.
You know that village is still looking for you. Under the new crime bill, dumping your idiot on other communities is no longer allowed.
It is considered cruel and unusual punishment.
The distruction of Ontario& Quebec continues.
That’s exactly what Harper’s gang wanted all along.
These crooks will only last in power no more then 9 more months- mark my words. Unfortunatelly the damage to Ontario, Quebec and Canada will be forever lasting.
John Ralston Saul told what is happening in ‘The Collapse of Globalism and the reinvention of the world’
We are witnessing his truth coming forth NOW!
C. B. Innes, applause for your 11.27.07 3:45 pm posting.
Private/Public Partnership is just a further extension of the debt economy…especially when many of the Private firms are already cash strapped. The sacrificial taxpayer is yet again exposed to the altar of greed.
Can you find it within yourself to stop with the regurgitation? Have you nothing to offer? No solutions? No suggestions?
And I’m still waiting for your answer to my question 2 blogs back Jim Bob. Atsamatter? No answers?
By Greg on 11.27.07 11:42 am
Hi Greg, I missed this post and didn’t happen to catch your question 2 blogs ago.
So you don’t like my regurgitation. Don’t know exactly what that means. I’m just saying it as I see it.
One gets weary of an MP who complains about global economic forces and blames the government for it. So yeah, if thats what you’re referring to I guess you’ll have to get used to the bile.
Answers? You want answers? Isn’t that the job of the MP. Shouldn’t the government in waiting have some solutions? How would Garth change the fortunes of GM and other manufacturers that produce over priced, poor quality products? He would like to blame Harper when we all know the the plight of GM was their own making.
His article today about PDQ. They were destined to close when they opened up in the US. That was their plan. They are just able to blame the government for the plant closer now. Thats convenient.
Yes, one gets weary of complain and abstain.
Do I have answers? Yes I do. Stay the course. The government is doing a great job domestically and internationally. The dollar is high because of
high oil prices. When that drops so will the dollar. To lower interest rates for short term dollar decline will only increase inflationary pressures. That isn’t something you reverse over night. So, stay the course.
I’m not an expert. I’m actually a simple hard working middle class Canadian with a lovely wife and 4 beautiful children. Very similar to most Canadians. I am looking for some things from my government. Lower taxes, better health care, access to education, safer communities, clean air and water. I want the government to stay out of my affairs such as the wheat board and gun registry.
Who do you suppose is most willing and able to give me these few simple things. I’ll give you a hint, it ain’t the liberals and come election I won’t be abstaining.
By C. B. Innes on 11.27.07 3:45 pm
I must agree with you on this CB.
Allow me to add to this, the fact that to sell in “developing markets”, they force you to build in locally. So, this means they quickly acquire the technological and managerial know-how that made “our” economy grow.
Then, add the fact their factories are new and state of the art, while ours are older technology, and need further investment.
This compares directly with the concept of selling guns to your enemy during wartime. The “financial elite” are actually subsidizing our competition in the global arena. The battleground is the market, and we are getting clobbered socially.
Around here, a growing sector are “Dollar Stores”. Funny how China can sell $1 bags of peppermints but we cannot. Funny how so many of US now buy in discount houses cheap goods produced by the very country that is hammering us in the major value-added markets.
Our needle trade is disappearing. Even the clothes worn by Canadian atheletes in Olympic events are made in CHINA!!! Now THAT is something to be PROUD(???!!!) of! (hey, let’s swap jerseys… Naw, yours is not “Canadian made”)
Yet, our past programs such as Autopact, are considered “protectionist”. The laws governing “Canadian Content” are weakened.
Again, who are the REAL benefactors – the financial elite.
I say Fair Trade not Free Trade. Nothing in this life is “free”…
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 3:24 pm
And don’t forget, 5% of the worlds population have 90% of its wealth.
Maybe the 5% have to go so the 95% can survive?
….all Dion has to do is be portrayed as a positive, no-nonsense leader, and when the Libs are re-elected with a clear majority,…. by Charles
It will be a long time before any federal party in Canada will be elected with a majority of any kind let alone a clear one. In fact I feel that both Dion, Harper and even Layton will be long gone before a majority will be elected again. In Fact I would guess at least another ten years.
By Marc on 11.27.07 4:08 pm
My last comment on this.
I recognise that “your” company had to react in order to survive.
My concern is “WHY” was it forced to do so?
Think about it…
“Outsource high value, labour intensive work and we can continue to make products that are worth less and require less labour to produce.”
Marc
I am not sure what you are making but there is a certain irony in your use of the phrase “worth less.” My feeling is that often that is what a company ends up with: a product that is “worthless.”
As every business out sources imputs to areas where wages are low and environmental and other standards are also low and you sell the product at the same cost you are getting a product worth less to our economy.
Eventually, fewer and fewer people will be able to buy your product within the Canadian market and the entire operation including your job will either disappear or move to the new location.
This is the kind of short term thinking that is the problem and to maintain this direction will eventually impact the entire economy.
This is the race to the bottom that corporate globalization creates.
“Do I have answers? Yes I do. Stay the course.”
I disagree that “staying the course” will do anything but make the already affluent much more so and the rest much worse off.
It is not that I have seen any suggestions that the Liberals would do anything different from the Conservatives. They might put some money into badly needed daycare spaces so more women can work to subsidize the declining incomes of their husbands. The might increase funding for education and training for jobs that no longer exist.
What we need is a new direction that will ensure widespread opportunities for people to find good jobs and not just a few high paid jobs for a small elite so they can buy their floating castles and hide from the rest of society on their private islands or behind the gates of their mansions.
Greenspan says “Harper out to derail Schreiber inquiry”:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071127.wschreibergreenspan1127/BNStory/Front
Could it be true of PMSH?
This clean, clear, Prime Minister really doesn’t want us to find out he is not so clean and clear.
What about Fortier, Emerson and McKay? Not much integrity there. A lot of sh..
Sometimes those who profess to be the “best” like Milton Man says Halton John is, turn out to be the worst. I find it difficult to believe that this so-called upstanding citizen aka Halton John would speak the same on this blog if he wrote under his real name.
By Jim on 11.27.07 4:40 pm
You didn’t answer the question Jim. I even posted in the last blog to give you a reminder and a thread to follow.
As to the Wheat Board and Gun Registry, you have been reading my posts haven’t you? Don’t play dumb with me Jim. I have been shuckstered by far better than you.
On the Gun Registry, the CPC promised to dump it. They are not serious about living up to their commitment as they have introduced it in a manner that does not require it to be a confidence vote.
I believe less than half of what I read, very much less of what I hear and absolutely nothing that a politician says until its proven.
As for the down home boy deal, I’m just an old country boy, born with a hole in the seat of his pants. I drug myself up in this world only to beat down time and time again by governments. So I have no political affiliation cep’n maybe to the Green Party, as they have no blood on their hands.
All the more reason for me to stand up for little people and Children Jim. Like your Children. I have been around a while, been a lot of places, seen a lot of things. I have listened to old people, and I don’t just mean standing attentively, I mean really listened to those who had something of value to say.
Some people grow old and wise Jim, many just grow old. Knowing the difference is the difference between wisdom and perpetual folly.
Harper didn’t get it done at the Commonwealth meeting. He gave support to the arguments that he is a Bushbot. Plain and simple.
And as far as Garth Turner is concerned, I’m his match any day, and he knows it.
And BTW, you rejected my stand on a “Sanction like” approach by the Commonwealth nations to polluters such as China and Russia, but if you think about, can you really condemn the principle? Don’t adhere, don’t send your junk here. Its not hard to understand if you try Dick. Bonus, it fosters home grown production and challenges globalism.
If you have a better suggestion, I’m all ears.
All ears. No humility. — Garth
My concern is “WHY†was it forced to do so?
Think about it…
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 5:02 pm
Why, is to stay competitive with other U.S. plants making the same product. We export approx. 95% of what we make to U.S. school boards. There is very little Canadian work we bid on as it was hard to compete with some other plants wages. Unfortunatly there is no set rates. We used to have be really competitive with a low dollar but had to adjust to a high dollar to survive.
Government taxation 102.
When a higher level of government rationalises down its activities, expecting a lower level of government to pick up the slack, two things occur:
1. The taxpayer pays more, as the reduction from the higher level of government tax regime is always less than the increase from the lower level tax regime.
2. Things get totally messed up.
See Walkerton, see downloading (and uploading), see Mike Harris/Ernie Eves/Jim Flaherty for how overall taxes in Ontario went up, and service levels went down.
Now if only they would realise that the Federal Taxpayer, the provincial tax payer and the municipal tax payer are al one and the same. And if only the levels of government would agree to who should do what instead of the higher level dumping on the lower level, we might get somewhere.
By James- Chatham on 11.27.07 2:53 pm
……………………………………………………………………
Oh come now James, you are deliberately trying to confuse the issues I raised. You are equating Ontario amalgamation and downloading that screwed Chatham-Kent because you people ran an efficient local government that deprived you of all the infrastructure goodies that other municipalities were building and racking up deficits. When amalgamation was implemented, outstanding debts were forgiven by the provincial government, while frugal Chatham-Kent was left holding an empty bag. You screwed yourselves and made yourself into a laughing stock. No wonder you are apprehensive and unhappy.
Take the example of the Ministry of Indian Affairs which administers some $15 Billion(?) annually for aboriginal payments. Aboriginal chiefs accuse the federal government of inefficiency because a substantially lesser amount flows through to the aboriginal community. The point is that the Liberal-inspired Ottawa bureaucracy is inefficient and grows parasitically.
What Harper is doing is reducing federal taxation and in effect telling the provincial governments to raise their taxation for their specific needs. Quebec has raised their provincial sales tax when the GST was lowered, to meet their needs. What we are witnessing is Ontario and Toronto demanding money from Ottawa, but unwilling to raise their PST after Harper dropped the GST.
Harper has not downloaded anything on the provinces, so why are McGuinty and Miller greedily asking for federal aid??
McGuinty and Miller are totally messing up.
I have listened to old people, and I don’t just mean standing attentively, I mean really listened to those who had something of value to say.
By Greg on 11.27.07 5:35 pm
Here’s is what wisodm will bring with age and life!
Old Men
I took my dad to the mall the other day to buy some new shoes. We decided to grab a bite at the food court.
I noticed he was watching a teenager sitting next to him. The teenager had spiked hair in all different colors: green, red, orange, and blue. My dad kept staring at him. The teenager would look and find him staring every time.
When the teenager had enough, he sarcastically asked, “What’s the matter
old man, never done anything wild in your life?”
Knowing my Dad, I quickly swallowed my food so that I would not choke on
his response; knowing he would have a good one. And in classic style he did
not bat an eye in his response.
“Got drunk once and had sex with a peacock. I was just wondering if you
were my son.”
Around here, a growing sector are “Dollar Storesâ€. Funny how China can sell $1 bags of peppermints but we cannot. Funny how so many of US now buy in discount houses cheap goods produced by the very country that is hammering us in the major value-added markets.
By maybe Rhino? on 11.27.07 4:54 pm
Simple. They don’t spend billions on advertising pretending they have a superior something.
When there is a change in the marketplace, the company needs to adapt or risk losing market share or even failing.
For example when no-smoking by-laws came into effect across many Cities in Canada, club and bar owners cried foul…some bars closed in a matter of a few weeks. Seems to me they were on the brink, anyway. Particularly when many others survived and even grew their business.
It is truly a shame when a company liek the one Garth speeks about goes under as it affects so many people directly and indirectly. I suspect, though, that when companies “go under,” especially after a change in a law or the business environment (i.e. currency flucuations) it makes you wonder how viable they were.
By Jim on 11.27.07 4:40 pm
I’m not an expert. I’m actually a simple hard working middle class Canadian with a lovely wife and 4 beautiful children.
Ooo the CPC loves you, and the feeling is reciprocal. If you happen to live in a big city, changes are they already wrote off your vote since they don’t care anymore!
Very similar to most Canadians.
I’m tempted to say the majority of families are now not from married couples…
I am looking for some things from my government.
4 kids … hmmm childcare spots? That’d help, and I want them too, once I got kids. Are those childcare spots created yet?
Lower taxes
Sorry, Harpo didn’t reduce income taxes; all in all, if income taxes had been reduced, you would have had stronger purchasing power (as in how much of it you pay in taxes) with your money. Wouldn’t it rather make sense to “pay for what you burn, not what you earn”?
better health care
You do realize you voted for Mike Harris’s team at the federal level, right? The same Mike Harris who closed lots of hospitals, including Montfort, the francophone one in Ottawa, demonstrated by his affiliation to an anti-franco group? I thought you Cons just lurv Quebec, or is that love gone?
access to education
You *do* realize that Mike Harris and his team let tuition fees rise, right?
[...]
clean air
Harper and his strategy of reducing air pollutants without touching GHGs seems a bit weird. After all, without warmer hair, smog doesn’t occur (ever saw smog for 60 days in winter?).
and water.
Blah blah blah Walkerton blah blah.
Woops, that’s supposed to be “warmer air”, not hair!
Having shaken my head at proceedings in the House and read what our troll patrol has posted over the last few days, it has finally dawned on me what the neo-Cons are all about and what they really should call themselves:
CHAOS IS US.
Quebec has raised their provincial sales tax when the GST was lowered, to meet their needs.[...]
By Harry S on 11.27.07 5:54 pm
Nope, I still pay about 14%, down from about 15%, and it will fall to about 13% once Jan 1 comes along.
e.g. Ontario should increase it’s taxation to subsidize it’s manufacturing sector due to the high dollar.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
If the high dollar continues, who is going to be left to [collect] taxes Harry? The civil servants that you want done away with?
Whatever is it that makes you think that provincial civil servants are so much better or different than federal ones? Can you supply references that support your expertise on this issue?
For that matter Harry, can you supply references on your expertise on anything at all? I suggest you can’t, as your posts reflect an inexperienced person who likes very much to see their opinions in print. Nothing else though.
Kindly advise as to how I may have misconstrued any facts please.
By Greg on 11.27.07 3:43 pm
……………………………………………………….
You have misconstrued the facts with your facetiousness and loose logic.
My opinions are based on conservative principles of lower taxation and reduced federal civil service that is non-productive and essentially redundant. The Liberal-bloated civil service has been used to hire Liberals who again nepotistically hire their family members. We see generational civil servants now, just like the communist regimes created and collapsed their governments.
Federal and provincial governmental responsibilities was set out in our founding constitutions, but what has happened is the federal government has expanded into provincial areas of governance. This creates multiple layers of government that eats up the taxpayer’s money. The federal government has to be rationalized in order to further reduce taxation. The only way this can be done is to elect a majority Conservative government. If Canadians believe the Ottawa bureaucracy and programs must not be rationalized they will elect a Liberal government and continue paying higher taxation for that happiness.
It’s not rocket science what is happening in corpulent Ottawa, and the only way it can be made more efficient is to get out of provincial areas and then taxation can be reduced. Now it appears some provincial governments do not want a smaller Ottawa government, but would prefer that Ottawa collect the higher taxes and then give it to provincial governments .. so that provincial politicians won’t have to raise taxation for their local needs.
Harper has reduced the GST, thus leaving it open for the provincial politicians to raise their own taxes to meet their specific needs. What’s wrong with that, unless you are a cowardly provincial politician who fears the ire of local constituents when they try to sell them on higher taxes to fix their collapsing infrastructure. Quebec has raised their PST, while the scumbag gutless Ontario and Toronto leaders are still trying to get money from Ottawa and avoid explaining why their PST must be increased. (Didn’t McGuinty promise not to raise taxes in the last election .. LOL?). No wonder McGuinty has been called “the small man of confederation” !!
Do you have any evidence to support this claim.
By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 4:10 pm
Yes.
In short.
$4.
By Greg W., Oakville on 11.27.07 2:14 pm
Nice post, Greg W. However, it appears that a number of posters today had an overdose of laxative pills for their brekkie, and they’re dumping all over the place!
Wondered what that weird smell in the air was!
By Greg on 11.27.07 4:16 pm
I’m sure you would expect me to post names on this blog.
Should I ?? huu huu Should I ??
Rrrrright.
Now go out and help someone Mr. Cheap Sheets.
Greenspan says “Harper out to derail Schreiber inquiryâ€:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071127.wschreibergreenspan1127/BNStory/Front
Could it be true of PMSH?
This clean, clear, Prime Minister really doesn’t want us to find out he is not so clean and clear.
What about Fortier, Emerson and McKay? Not much integrity there. A lot of sh..
Sometimes those who profess to be the “best†like Milton Man says Halton John is, turn out to be the worst. I find it difficult to believe that this so-called upstanding citizen aka Halton John would speak the same on this blog if he wrote under his real name.
By Bonnie L on 11.27.07 5:25 pm
Good post.I knew Harper would try this. Next he will hang Nicholson out to dry, then MacKay. Then it will be truly the Alliance party again.
As for Haltonjohn , he has shown his true nature here for all to see.
Would you admit to being responsible for his posts?
By Greg on 11.27.07 5:35 pm
Greg, that was a lot said. But are you going to talk reality or pie in the sky. China, India, Indonesia, US, Russia. These are the greatest contributors to GHG emissions. They are also the largest economic markets in the world. In reality, are we going to impose economic sanctions on these nations? Does the Commonwealth and EU combined have the wherewithal to enter into a trade war with these economic super powers? Not hardly.
The dollar is high due to demand on our resources. That demand comes from these lands. Let’s cut them off until they capitulate? That ain’t going to happen. So let’s deal with what we can.
Harper made it clear that hard targets that are binding are required from all nations in order to reduce GHG. For us to self impose hard targets will significantly reduce our ability to compete globally. And let’s be real, we are in a global economy, like it or not. To dream about a closed border and strictly a domestic economy is not going to happen. It wouldn’t work in reality.
So, if we believe the earth is warming due to human activity, I for one, do not believe it is a doomsday scenario. The world will not come to an end by 2012 if we fail to meet Kyoto targets. What is needed is diplomacy from Canada to bring these other nations to the table and negotiate realistic targets that they will agree to. To condemn them like the past liberal governments have done will not accomplish that.
I’ll tell you one thing I agree with, Greg, politicians can’t trusted. That said, which party is going to do for Canada and for my world what is important to me? It won’t be the liberals. Been there, done that. They failed big time.
All ears. No humility. — Garth
By Greg on 11.27.07 5:35 pm
Yeehaw! Glad to see you weren’t napping.
An old fella’s got to have a little fun sometimes.
So I guess Dalton is not the only “small man” of confederation eh Vanloan?
Charest joins the fray on seat debate
Premier backs McGuinty’s bid for more MPs as Ontario-Quebec relations warm up
KAREN HOWLETT AND RHÉAL SÉGUIN
From Tuesday’s Globe and Mail
November 27, 2007 at 5:35 AM EST
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071127.wseats27/BNStory/National/home
Manitoba Premier Gary Doer threw his support behind Ontario on the weekend when he was in Toronto for the Grey Cup game and met privately with Mr. McGuinty.
“I think we should take our time and get [the legislation] right in terms of the principles for this country,” Mr. Doer told reporters. “Otherwise, it could be perceived as a cynical exercise.”
Of course they may be doing all of this to be complete arse-holes or maybe not. Yet the message seems to get clearer and clearer, they don’t KHS available to testify.By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 2:55 pm
That’s my take on it too…they don’t want him available to testify.
“Got drunk once and had sex with a peacock. I was just wondering if you
were my son.â€
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.27.07 5:58 pm
Well Bill, that is definitely the best one in a month of Sundays. Kudos to your Dad.
Old Dogs and Children and Watermelon Wine.
The only PDQ factory was in Whitby – period.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim.
By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 4:10 pm
Yes I do Zortious.
Read.
Who Gives to Charity?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html
Karl Schreiber Update.
The plot thickens
“If anyone – Mr. Schreiber, the justice minister, the Ontario attorney general or any other person – frustrates the ability of Mr. Schreiber to be before our committee on Thursday, they may be found in contempt of Parliament by the House,” Szabo told reporters.
Why the need to get your hands dirty, federal government? Sounds like they’ve got their finger on the trigger, ready to extradite. What other explanation is there for having gone to this length, putting Schreiber under federal control in a provincial facility?
Nicholson is still playing coy:
Nicholson, under fire later in the Commons over the issue, said he wouldn’t stand in the way of efforts by MPs to bring Schreiber to Ottawa.
The next obvious question is why the CPC MP’s on the committee all voted to try and block the Parliamentary Subpoena from being issued? The Justice Minister made it very clear that he would not try to stop KHS from testifying. Harper is the one that called the Public Inquiry, so obviously he didn’t order his MP’s to try to block KHS from appearing at the Inquiry he ordered.
So has Harper lost control of his Caucus? Or are there rogue elements in the CPC trying to embarriss Harper?
Can one of Harper’s parrots here explain this obvious contradiction of calling an Inquiry, while trying to everything to ensure one of the Star Witnesses doesn’t appear. Cause if that were to happen it would be a huge waste of public money, and it would be just another thibg that Harper failed to get done.
Federal auditor general plans to review defence sole-source contracts
By Murray Brewster, THE CANADIAN PRESS
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/11/27/4689835-cp.html
When amalgamation was implemented, outstanding debts were forgiven by the provincial government, while frugal Chatham-Kent was left holding an empty bag. You screwed yourselves and made yourself into a laughing stock.
Harry S on 11.27.07 5:54 pm
No Harry. Once again you’re confused. What we did was the “Conservative” thing before it became the thing to do. That is we lived within our means.
As always, you like to use hindsight with a good dose of ignorance and revisionism. If we had had a magic ball, and had known all debts would be forgiven, we would have spent like the rest.
No Harry, the joke was on us, the laughing stock, however, was Mike Harris who screwed us. Not long afterwards he realised that his “experiment” didn’t work, that is it didn’t result in savings and he stopped amalgamations. The problem for Chatham-Kent was it would have and still will cost even more to put us back the way it should have been.
The same applies to all the other Harris amalgamated municipalities.
Talking of stupidity, I can also discuss in detail hospiatal reorganisation. Send a consultant and impose a solution to merge two hospitals onto one site (a good idea) but only give them 18 months to do it. Problem, it takes 12 months to get any building plans approved by the MOH let alone fund and build the thing. Mike Harris was an ideological idiot with no link to reality.
BTW, those hospitals that tried to balance their budgets before they were forced too, also got burnt by Mr. Harris.
ABC…. anything but Conservatives, provincial and federal. And until the NDP, become the New NDP (like New Labour), that leaves the Liberals and the Greens.
Apologies for breaking into Provincial politics. But while we have a Harris hangover as Finance Minister, and a PM who runs on ideology, what happened in Ontario pre Dalton, is a pretty good indicator as to what is happening to Canada with the CPC at the helm.
Harper has not downloaded anything on the provinces, so why are McGuinty and Miller greedily asking for federal aid??
McGuinty and Miller are totally messing up.
By Harry S on 11.27.07 5:54 pm
Could it be that the Ontario has the largest population and therefore contributes most to Federal coffers yet, receives less per person from the Feds? Now that’s fiscal imbalance.
So has Harper lost control of his Caucus? Or are there rogue elements in the CPC trying to embarriss Harper?
Can one of Harper’s parrots here explain this obvious contradiction of calling an Inquiry, while trying to everything to ensure one of the Star Witnesses doesn’t appear. Cause if that were to happen it would be a huge waste of public money, and it would be just another thibg that Harper failed to get done.
By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 8:11 pm
Yup, it’s the Mulroneyites versus the Harperites within the CPC. The Conservatives are ripe to split apart over this corrupt mess. Thank you Karl Heinz Schreiber.
Yes I do Zortious.
Read.
Who Gives to Charity?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:10 pm
BaHahahahaha, I won’t even borther to explain where you went wrong with that post John, I’ll just let it stand unchallanged for pure comedic value of it.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim.
By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 4:10 pm
Yes I do Zortious.
Read.
Who Gives to Charity?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:10 pm
*Looks around*
…did he just SERIOUSLY compare the cons in Canada to the cons in america? Really?
Is that the extent of your aspirations for your beloved con party? BUSH? Well then. lol have at ‘er.
CanWest News Service T
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
Almost two-thirds of Canadians believe Karlheinz Schreiber should be kept in Canada long enough to testify at a public inquiry into his dealings with former prime minister Brian Mulroney, even though most predict the probe will turn out to be a waste of money, a national poll says. The survey, conducted by Ipsos-Reid exclusively for CanWest News Service and Global National, found 65% of respondents feel the government should delay the extradition of the German-Canadian businessman so he can present evidence at an inquiry announced two weeks ago. The businessman, who paid Mulroney $300,000 in cash in 1993 and 1994, could be extradited to Germany as early as Saturday. “Canadians think something doesn’t smell right between Karlheinz Schreiber and Brian Mulroney,” said Darrell Bricker, president of Ipsos-Reid. The telephone survey of 1,000 adults is considered accurate within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
Re: comments by Harry S on 11.27.07 6:17 pm
Anger is considered the strongest emotion and sometimes it effects a person’s thinking.
“My opinions are based on conservative principles of lower taxation and reduced federal civil service that is non-productive and essentially redundant.”
How many positions has the Conservative Government reduced since taking power? Even with a minority a government can make cuts without Parliament. If the public service is as redundant as you say there should be a lot of unemployed people in Ottawa after almost two years of the Harper government.
“Federal and provincial governmental responsibilities was set out in our founding constitutions, but what has happened is the federal government has expanded into provincial areas of governance.”
Why the Conservative federal government is trying to use its spending power to force provinces to privatize provincial public infrastructure? That seems to be interference.
“This creates multiple layers of government that eats up the taxpayer’s money. The federal government has to be rationalized in order to further reduce taxation.”
In other words, the federal government plans to down load larger financial obligations onto the provinces in order to cut federal taxes. This will also increase provincial bureaucracies so for some programs such a tax collection Canada will have eleven different bureaucracies (some provinces now have the federal government collect their taxes as a cost saving measure). In other words, it will create more tiers of bureaucracy Canadawide.
“The only way this can be done is to elect a majority Conservative government.”
Whoever told you that you need a Conservative majority to do as you want is selling you a real bill of goods. They could do it now if they really wanted to.
Creating larger provincial bureaucracies is not rationalizing. The reason that provinces allowed the federal government to take over areas that might be considered provincial was because it was more cost effective than running independent programs. Is it that you want provincial programs eliminated?
“It’s not rocket science what is happening in corpulent Ottawa, and the only way it can be made more efficient is to get out of provincial areas and then taxation can be reduced. Now it appears some provincial governments do not want a smaller Ottawa government, but would prefer that Ottawa collect the higher taxes and then give it to provincial governments .. so that provincial politicians won’t have to raise taxation for their local needs.”
That is probably true in some cases but whether it is federal, provincial or municipal levels of government it is the same people that are taxed to fund each. It is less expensive for the taxpayers to have one government looking after taxation.
“Harper has reduced the GST, thus leaving it open for the provincial politicians to raise their own taxes to meet their specific needs.”
That is not accurate. Three provinces have their provincial sales tax collected by the federal government as the HST. In fact, the federal government is proposing to have more provinces opt into the HST not eliminate the provinces that are already involved.
“What’s wrong with that, unless you are a cowardly provincial politician who fears the ire of local constituents when they try to sell them on higher taxes to fix their collapsing infrastructure. Quebec has raised their PST, while the scumbag gutless Ontario and Toronto leaders are still trying to get money from Ottawa and avoid explaining why their PST must be increased. (Didn’t McGuinty promise not to raise taxes in the last election .. LOL?). No wonder McGuinty has been called “the small man of confederation†!!”
Your whole argument boils down to an irrational anger at the Ontario government and because of it you are advocating a system that is penny wise and pound foolish!!!!
Do you have any evidence to support this claim.
By Zorpheous on 11.27.07 4:10 pm
Yes I do Zortious.
Read.
Who Gives to Charity?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/12/who_gives_to_charity.html
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 8:10 pm
Hmmm.. interesting, sort of, but do you have anything that actually pertains to, you know, Canada? Not quite sure what figures for teh US from a partisan US source have to do with Canada (unless as with most HarperCONS you think we are the U,S and A or should be)
And from an independant non-partisan CANADIAN source?
Not that I’m holding my breath.
By Jim on 11.27.07 6:26 pm
Not talking trade war and closed borders Jim. Talking a serious look at trade deficits and looking elsewhere for products other than high level environmental polluters. What do we import from China? What can we import from elsewhere? Toys? Dollar store stuff? Discount stores clothes? Lot’s of choices where to buy this stuff. Which of these products can be obtained here, and can be manufactured here? What do we sell to China? Not a lot of manufactured goods I’ll bet. Apparently we are going to have Chinese cars here soon. They are not too safe either from the crash results I’ve seen. We can’t build cars here? Of course we can, it just takes vision and leadership to build the right cars for the market, and the big 3′s built in obsolescence has to addressed.
As I said before, Harper’s stand is a non position in reality, a blocking move. Like the NDP position on Afghanistan. Pretty ridiculous when the party with the 4th largest amount of seats acts like they have a majority.
This movement toward environmental responsibility could be like a brushfire once it got some wind. It would have a great deal more chance of success if a large organization like the Commonwealth Nations were to get it going. Aspirational targets won’t accomplish anything. Its another missed opportunity, and thats a shame.
By Greg on 11.27.07 6:49 pm
Greg -
You are very easily entertained. If that is the best story you have heard lately then you need to get out more.
Garth,
I am disappointed neither you or your leader Stephane Dion have not come out and condemned Elizabeth May in regards to her disgusting comparassion to such a dark period in our history.
Is this really leadership on Stephane Dion and your part not to distance yourself from someone who clearly has no care in the world who she offends when she makes these comments?
My opinions are based on conservative principles of lower taxation and reduced federal civil service that is non-productive and essentially redundant
scumbag gutless Ontario and Toronto leaders are still trying to get money from Ottawa
By Harry S on 11.27.07 6:17 pm
Right off the bat you go into la la land Harry. I’m no fan of the civil service, but to call it redundant is as narrow minded as you can get. What do you suggest? Privatize the whole thing?
Another thing is your assessment of scumbag gutless Ontario and Toronto.
If the scumbags were able to keep all their equalization payment monies, maybe they wouldn’t be trying to get their money back from Ottawa. And that was a pretty vitriolic description of one of our provinces and its people don’t you think?
My question, if you remember was what makes you think that provincial civil servants are better or more efficient than federal ones? The other was,
“If the high dollar continues, who is going to be left to pay the taxes Harry?” I forgot “to pay” in the original post.
Government waste and the ideology of privilege is a real problem, that I wouldn’t argue, but where you need to reassess your logic is in consideration of such things as this;
Tory gov’t paid $25B in grants
http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/newstoday/article/138874
Top 25 grants
http://timestranscript.canadaeast.com/newstoday/article/138875
There are very many areas to be considered, and the civil service is only one of them.
By Haltonjohn on 11.27.07 6:23 pm
So of course, we know there is no such person. Just a figment of your imagination.
You know, you remind me of a combination of a Teletubby and Don Cherry.
Tinky Winky Don
Sounds like CRA has taken a page from the Mike Harris handbook :
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/27/bc-farmworkers.html
Not talking trade war and closed borders Jim. Talking a serious look at trade deficits and looking elsewhere for products other than high level environmental polluters. What do we import from China? What can we import from elsewhere? Toys? Dollar store stuff? Discount stores clothes? Lot’s of choices where to buy this stuff. Which of these products can be obtained here, and can be manufactured here?
By Greg on 11.27.07 9:55 pm
China exports everything from furniture to toys to light fixtures to clothing to industrial equipment. The list is endless. Almost everything you can buy you can find a Chinese label on it.
What do they export that we can’t make? Nothing. So really Greg the choice is yours.
Before you buy look at the label. Made in Canada, buy it. Made outside Canada, leave it.
That is a noble and patriotic value. But be prepared to pay the price for it. The reason China has innundated our economy with their goods is because they are cheaper. It is not a government issue it is a consumer issue.
Get consumers to buy home made products and you have done more than any government or Canadian manufacturer has been able to accomplish. Get the US and EU to do the same and there you have your trade embargo. When China, India, Indonesia begin taking the environment serious and reduce pollution and GHG, then trade can resume.
Should work. Good luck with that.
Not that I’m holding my breath.
By Frank Frink on 11.27.07 9:53 pm
Given that I have heard this whole “Conservatives give more” schlock before I knew John would come back with “that” article, which was also feature by Bill Oh’Really before, which is why I specifically specified no Oh’Really sources. It is not even worth the time explain to John why it is complete BS. But I do find it amuzing.
If the scumbags were able to keep all their equalization payment monies, maybe they wouldn’t be trying to get their money back from Ottawa. And that was a pretty vitriolic description of one of our provinces and its people don’t you think?
HarryS wants Toronto and Ontario to have all their money back, look at his post:
By Harry S on 11.27.07 2:17 pm
Harry has advocated the federal government to cut taxes drastically and allow the provinces to raise them. Methinks Toronto and Ontario would benefit greatly from this idea.
What would it mean to Canada as a country, though?
By Geoffrey L. on 11.27.07 11:59 am
Geoffrey, When you say “no company can survive who sells their product in a currency that has decreased close to 30%.†you are dead wrong. Companies can survive but it takes a pro-active approach. With our high dollar companies can now re-invest in more modern tools to help lower labour costs. Companies such as the one I work for can outsource and subsidize high Canadian wages to lower paying countries. The company I work for sell 95% of what we make to a U.S. market. Our owner anticipating a large rise in the Canadian dollar started working with manufacturing plants in Malaysia. We now sub-let our high labour work to Malaysia and keep our unprofitable Canadian plant running still as the loss is recovered by the profit made from utilizing off shore work. It is not perfect but it is working. We are continuing to recieve contracts from our U.S. customers as we are still competitive. Other companies could have had the same fore sight and the ones that didn’t will ultimatly fail for thei lack of vision.
By Marc on 11.27.07 12:53 pm
Marc, thank you for your response. You are right that Canadian companies can outsource to cheaper labour pools and cost of production areas as per the “World is Flat”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_is_Flat
Unfortunately, this is not a “made in Canada” approach. When nothing is “made in Canada” and all this country does for a living is drilling oil and gas, cutting down trees and mining for gold and diamonds, we will be back to square one. Many manufacturing facilities such as auto plants already have state of the art equipment so buying new equipment won’t help them. I pray that Canada gets a sane government and Finance Minister in the near future before it is too late. The evil leprachaun we have right now is leading us down the garden path and there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
By James- Chatham on 11.27.07 9:12 pm
By James- Chatham on 11.27.07 9:18 pm
By C. B. Innes on 11.27.07 9:51 pm
By Greg on 11.27.07 10:22 pm
………………………………….
Sorry fellas, but your arguments are fraught and wrought with inaccuracies, half-truths, outright falsities and tainted with your wildly biased opinions. Since I am too tired to respond, I will ignore your comments and thus spare the forum your abject embarrassment. Good nite ..
Taxpayer money wasted pursuing workers: advocates
Advocates for B.C. farm workers say the federal government has spent millions of dollars trying to force the low-income labourers return employment insurance benefits paid out years ago.
This no longer new government is scum. I remember similar waste of taxpayers $$$ pursuing honest people who were the working poor during Malroney’s time.
Watch cause Steve and his CONS can sink lower.
By Harry S on 11.28.07 12:09 am
Of course you are the expert on this.
Good morning Mr. Pot, this is Mr. Kettle!
What do they export that we can’t make? Nothing. So really Greg the choice is yours.
It is not a government issue it is a consumer issue.
When China, India, Indonesia begin taking the environment serious and reduce pollution and GHG, then trade can resume.
Should work. Good luck with that.
By jim on 11.27.07 11:32 pm
Your suggestion in the first para above is simplistic, and you should know it. Consumers often frequent a given number of outlets in an outing and select from the offerings chosen and offered by the retail mechanism. Sure you can run all over town looking for Canadian, but in reality few do.
Then you say its not a government issue. I beg to differ. It is a matter of will, vision and priorities.
You said, (then trade can resume.) You didn’t read my post properly. I didn’t say end trade. I advocate selective process. If ending trade with any country were viable, then maybe but only in the worst case scenario. And remember, I’m not just talking about Canada. That is the important aspect you seem to choose to continue to ignore.
Since I am too tired to respond, I will ignore your comments and thus spare the forum your abject embarrassment. Good nite ..
By Harry S on 11.28.07 12:09
In the face of overwhelming odds, rational thought and facts, retreat eh Harry? That was a poor effort in throwing in the towel.
Anything to say about the 25 Billion? You who have so much to say about Quebec. Did you look at the figures?
By Dube on 11.27.07 10:59 pm
6 million dollars divided by 120 workers equals $50,000 each. To recover how much? Last time I read something on the issue of UIC or employment insurance there was a huge surplus of funds and the Gov should have been working to lower contributions. This would have produced more benefit to average Canadians. Unfortunately, these types of incidents are commonplace and speak to the vision and abilities of senior civil servants. You should see some of the horror stories in relation to expropriations. Spending hundreds of thousands, millions sometimes to fight over pittances.
Along with items like the 25 Billion in grant monies and general government expenditures, lie the essence of financial woes and misplaced funds. Not to mentioned misplaced common sense.
I believe that if these, and other similar misappropriations of funds were addressed, not only could we afford our Social net, but we could enjoy significant tax cuts as well.
Its the mentality that a 1/2% cut in GST represents 12 Billion lost to the Government that is at the root of the evil. The 1/2% cut in GST is a 1/2% cut in taxes paid by an already grossly overtaxed taxpayer.
See the difference? I see the difference.
When you consider the Schreiber / Air Bus scenario and take into account the 6 million per airplane that Airbus allowed for grease money, what is the obvious conclusion? They added the 6 million onto the purchase price? Who paid that? Air Canada. Didn’t they need financial restructuring? Who paid for that?
And on and on it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
If I could have Mr. Harpers ear for a moment, I would suggest to him that this is the true Culture of Defeat.
While Garth Turner and the Liberals pick the lint from their belly buttons and crow about their lost ½% in GST, I never heard a mention about the fact that of the top $1,713,000,000.00 in grant monies, Quebec got $629,000,000.00 or 37% and their population represents 24%.
Little wonder the CPC is gaining support in Quebec.
In the meantime, the Fiddler goes on the world stage and makes a fool of us.
In the meantime, the Fiddler only reacts to the ZENN Car when the press shoves it in their face and they conduct damage control.
I have a very definite idea as to why ZENN was being blocked. As per personal experiences, this is an old game that is played by Politicians and Civil Servants, and its time they got called on it.
By Greg on 11.28.07 8:33 am
We need to look, like the Capital One ad says, not for Bankers, but LAWYERS! They are the ones really making the money and doing it on taxpayer’s backs.
Canada is as lawsuit happy as the U.S., we are just quieter about it.
By Greg on 11.27.07 10:22 pm
Thanks for that link. What the Hell is Pratt & Whitney getting $350 million for? The stench of vote buying should be checked by the Auditor General!
I do not want my tax dollars paying for a free ride for some megacorp that makes BILLIONS, and for damn sure not in QUEBEC!
What the Hell is Pratt & Whitney getting $350 million for?
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.28.07 10:28 am
That certainly conjures up opportunity for speculation. One thing that’s sure, we know where they are doing business in Canada at least.
By Bill-Muskoka on 11.28.07 10:28 am
I would like to find the whole list. I think it would be interesting.
Emilie on 11.28.07 1:36 am,
To be fair and accurate it was the Mulroney government that decided not to pursue small claims, at least with regard to income tax, because too much money was being spent on such investigations.
I am not sure when that policy was reversed but I think it was reversed at some point either under the Liberals or new Conservatives.
I am not sure whether at that time it applied also to UI claims (now EI).
I would like to find the whole list. I think it would be interesting.
By Greg on 11.28.07 10:43 am
You can find the top 100 here.
http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Top100.pdf
Thanks C.B. That is interesting, but a little hard to assess.
There is also an interesting article on their site about corporate welfare.
A snipet;
Rule-Breaking & the Transparency Deficit –
One characteristic of the subsidy game is rule-bending and rule-breaking. Audits have revealed companies routinely paid forbidden “success fees†to lobbyists in exchange for securing subsidy handouts. In addition to paying prohibited fees, audits have found lobbyists have neglected to register, which is another violation of transparency and accountability rules.
http://www.taxpayer.com/main/news.php?news_id=2471
Greg on 11.28.07 4:32 pm,
It seems to me that there may be an underlying problem with regard to the definition of what constitutes “lobbying” and what does not.
Ottawa is full of people who would not techically be considered lobbyists but serve the same function. They generally refer to themselves as consultants or representatives of think tanks. Today a think tank is little more than what once was called a “pressure group.”
The representatives of pressure groups are extremely powerful players in Ottawa. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation itself is a pressure group as is the Canadian Council of Chief Executives. Their representatives, such as Tom d’Aquino, have close connections with the political elite but they are not technically lobbyists.
Organization such as the Fraser Institute and the C.D. Howe Institute are even more powerful pressure groups. People like Mike Harris and Preston Manning are associated with the former.
The representatives of these groups are basically unregistered lobbyists. They are high profile and they are easily absorbed into the Ottawa social circles.
It is through that social circle that people like Schreiber become part of the political scene. Someone charming, with the ability to name drop and claim close acquaintance with the international political or business elite fits in. High level politicians and bureaucrats have big egos and are easily manipulated by these wheelers and dealers.
By C. B. Innes on 11.28.07 7:32 pm
BRAVO!
By C. B. Innes on 11.28.07 7:32 pm
And I was going to say that it is interesting that some choose to call Shreiber a criminal for these activities.
Makes you think doesn’t it?