We condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. This was an abhorrent act of terror. We hope that the government of Pakistan will act to bring the perpetrators to justice and this cannot be allowed to permit any delay in the return of Pakistan to full democracy, something the people of Pakistan have been waiting for far too long.
– Stephen Harper
Our prime minister has learned diplomatic obfuscation well. The assassination of Benazir Bhutto elicited from Calgary the same tepid, almost apologetic response as we heard yesterday from Washington. Except, George Bush put a suit on and looked truly pained. Our guy, well, he didn`t.
Hard to diminish the importance of this death. Pakistan is a seething country with six times the population of Canada, nuclear missiles, a large terrorist class, a history of killing off leaders, and is currently run by an egomaniac dictator. It`s also next door to Afghanistan, and 2,500 Canadian troops who are fighting the Taliban, which common wisdom has it are supplied, aided, comforted and abetted by the goon regime next door.
There are certainly theories today that Bhutto`s demise came at the hands of the Taliban or maybe the bin Laden crowd. After all, she was set to win victory in the January 8th Pakistani elections or, at least, to become a key voice in a coalition government. Bhutto equalled democracry. Western-trained and worldly-wise, she also equalled the rule of law, religious tolerance and economic stability. Unlike the current dictator, whose military machine`s believed to be riddled with pro-terrorist elements, Bhutto would pose a serious threat to the entire fundamentalist structure which is dedicated to overthrowing the West.
There`s also the theory among her widowed supporters that Bhutto’s death was the work of the dictator himself, General Pervez Musharraf. Weeks before she was shot to death leaning out of the sunroof of her car, waving to supporters, she said should any harm come to her, it would surely be his work.
Back to George Bush and Mr. Harper. The west, led by America, has propped up Musharraf for years and given that country billions of dollars. This was in the belief he formed a dike against terrorism and represented stability in a volatile region with the potential to ignite half the world. Some dike. He was unable, or unwilling, in the short months Bhutto returned to Pakistan from years of exile to prevent hundreds of people from being blown up at political events, and two assassination attempts on the leader, one of them successful.
Musharraf has also been incapable of corralling the Taliban, which apparently slip seamlessly back and forth across the Afghan border, putting our troops in danger. In fact, every report I’ve heard states that Taliban strength is growing rapidly and the task our soldiers face grows more daunting, perhaps hopeless, despite their valour and work ethic.
While I did not really expect George Bush to get up and do more than condemn the unknown assailants and make thunderous words about bringing them to justice and restoring democracy to Pakistan – because he can’t – I sure expected more of our guy. The gift of being Canadian used to be the ability to speak your mind. Condemn South Africa. Chastise the US. Repudiate the Balkans. Speak out and support indigenous peoples and exceptional leaders while chewing out those regimes who deserved it. This is a useful thing for an independent middle-power like Canada to do, at least try to protect the moral high ground while others are scurrying around chasing their own self interests.
Thus, I would have been proud of a prime minister whose lines were not written after consultation with the White House.
We probably know who did this. Let’s have the balls to say so. If that’s too tough, at least – in the spirit of a mythic woman – be courageous enough to condemn that little dictator, and the shadowy bullies hiding in his skirts.
Some people must die to state truths. Others merely have to say them. How hard is that?
175 comments ↓
Except, George Bush put a suit on and looked truly pained. Our guy, well, he didn`t.
By Garth -
That’s only your full of hate, ultra biased opinion.
Your an ass hole Turner.
I think you are jealous of Harper.
“Our prime minister has learned diplomatic obfuscation well. The assassination of Benazir Bhutto elicited from Calgary the same tepid, almost apologetic response as we heard yesterday from Washington. Except, George Bush put a suit on and looked truly pained. Our guy, well, he didn`t.”
Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who took notice of Harper’s almost mirror image of words previously used by GWB.
While I admired Benazir Bhutto and am saddened by her assassination, I have reservations about how much she would have been able to achieve, based on her previous terms as head of state. I agree with most of the rest of your blog.
I heard that Harper issued an invitation to the press to attend his statement (photo-op) and gave them only 29 minutes to be there…and, wondered why not many showed up.
Harper – this is NOT a photo-op moment. It’s a serious issue, very serious.
Funny, my husband caught Harper’s statement on the news this a.m. just before leaving for work and said “what the hell – Harper is same almost exact same thing as Bush – did he get an okay and directions from Bush as to what to say?
Meanwhile, others – Rudd of Australia, UN head, etc. – made their statements in their own words.
Then I read some CPC bloggers bellyaching about Bob Rae’s statement getting more coverage than Bernier. Ah, exactly how much does Bernier understand about Middle East issues and what experience does he have in this area that would go past a paragraph at most. Bob Rae, Michael Ignatieff, Keith Martin, Dan McTeague and others in the Liberal party have extensive experience in international matters. Now, what experience do Peter MacKay and Maxime Bernier and Harper have? Not much.
People poo poo Ignatieff, for example, and yet I remember him saying quite a while back (I believe during the leadership race) that Pakistan had to be dealt with before Afghanistan could be a success.
Harper said what he was going to say, and then said …..well that’s it and I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year…sure Harper, show you care, show your anguish….show you have true feelings about anything – try it. It’s not painful.
I know this is OT, but not totally, when you compare our new, old government to that of the US. The Libs were guilty too, but Stevie and his back room guys really are taking Canada step by step in the direction of the US.
“Reconciling Fascism with Reality
By Pervez Dastoor
12/14/07 “ich” — – — Fascist! A word that is thrown around all too commonly in today’s political debates and partisan quibbling that is common among the cable “news networks.†A flip of the channel on any night to CNN, FOX, Headline News or other similar programs reveals time slots devoted to the latest celebrity scandal or any other unimportant story. When not emphatically debating the latest celebrity DUI or child-custody battle, you will frequently see a story or hear a media talking head propagate the fear-mongering about hoards of radical Muslims swimming across both oceans to destroy the very fabric of the North American homeland. Wouldn’t that be an impressive feat of stamina? But these individuals will not be referred to as just fanatics, terrorists or Islamists, but instead the newest trend “Islamofascists.â€
Huh, did I miss something? Do these people who spew out rhetoric with that term even consider what fascism stands for or actually means. After all, would you not think that “esteemed†members of the media and their “expert†guests would actually understand what they are saying? Is that too much to ask? Unfortunately, yes. Not only do these individuals not use the term in a proper manner, they purposely distort the term in order to evoke thoughts of fear and insecurity. ”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18890.htm
A very worthwhile read.
Garth, Have your caught CBC News World today where al-Qaeda is now stating this was their demented operation. Just food for thought for your comment in the post about that little dictator.
I too noticed how inadequate SH statement was, just so rote and mechanical.
I just checked the conservative website to see if there was a more meaningful statement on Mrs. Bhutto’s death ( there is not) and, just as an aside, there are as many photos and more videos of Stephane Dion there than there are of Stephen Harper.
That is so not harper!!
(“harper” – def: self-important, controlling, robotlike, etc)
Onther waste of human life to maintain the status in that part of the world. Once we cut through the crappy comments made by Western Leaders,we can see that this was a political assassintion-it started the day she set foot in her native country.BB was the only real opposition to the statusquo.Without Ms. Bhutto,her party has no chance.So Harper,Bush and Co. say that the election must proceed as scheduled so as to safeguard democracy in Pakistan.What a crock.But then what else can one expect to come out of the mouth of these hypocrites?It is now guaranteed that the Dictator General will stay in power and the west will have their stooge in place for years to come.May BB rest in peace.
Hey Halton John, a Merry Christmas to you too.It looks as if Santa didn’t leave any soap to wash out your mouth.At least have some respect for the dearly departed.Hopefully in the New Year,you will spare us this type of gutter language and make this site pleasant for the rest of us.
Garth there is little else that could be said of this tragedy. Harper has represented Canada as best as could be expected considering no facts, other than the murder of this women, is yet known.
We are less safe today because of this event. The Liberals and the Conservatives have talented people at their disposal, let’s hope they can find common ground to further stability in the region rather than take cheap shots at each other. I recall after 9-11 waiting for a response from Cretien but for days he said nothing. Thankfully John Manley took the lead and offered condolences.
The situation in Pakistan is just as complicated as the one in Afghanistan. When you listen to all sides of the issue you get the sense that there is a class divide between the authoritarian power of the military and the more democratic power of Parliament with the economic and social elite siding with the military and the rest siding with the larger Parliamentary parties.
The extreme right wing of the political spectrum internationally is moving more and more away from seeing democracy as promoting their interests and towards autocratic control enforced by “hard power.”
The conflict between democracy and the power of an ingrained elite is playing out across the globe and it is creating a major dilemma for the right in democratic countries.
The difficulty of determining who is responsible for the assassination in Pakistan complicates the issue since the western allies have placed so much political and financial capital in the Musharraf government. They have to blame “terrorists” rather than political opponents because the term is more general.
The issues in the Middle East are becoming more complicated and much more of a hornet’s nest for the countries involved in trying to enforce their values on the region.
Garth, with all due respect, I have to disagree with almost every word you have written here! How could you?
Mr. Harper learned of her death while in flight back to Ottawa from his Christmas vacation and was interview the minute he got off of that plane.
Mr. Harper lead the way just weeks ago in pushing successfully for sanctions against Musharraf for his lack of democracy. You know that also.
Mr. Harper parroted what every world leader has said when he got off of that plane…why would you accuse him of consulting with the White House? Do you know that is fact or are you just making it up?
Ms. Bhutto was all the nice things you said, but she was however not without faults. For example; she was very power hungry and refused to let anyone within her own party be groomed to succeed her witch is causing huge problems today.
Let’s also throw into the mix that China is a strong ally to Pakistan and most of the bombs that kill our soldiers are made in China.
Let’s also throw in that both the Taliban and Al Qaeda are claiming this assassination.
I would say this is much more complicated than you convey and whether Musharraf is a good guy or bad guy (nobody knows for sure) he’s in a no win situation.
Since Mr. Harper spoke to the media literally moments after he learned of this, what more did you want him to say? Did you want him to go off half-cocked and ill informed and spout off stupid comments? Oh…wait…that would be a Mr. Dion moment. BTW…where is Dion? Rae has spoken regarding this event. Not a peep from your leader, where’s his suit and condemnation of Musharraf?
This post today was most disappointing Garth and ill conceived.
Regards, Leasa.
My reference was to the official statement prepared and issued by the PMO, not to the words he uttered at the airport. He would have seen, reviewed and approved that message. Nice try, though. — Garth
C.B. Fair comment, so what is the solution, would it be to yield to the extremists movement within Islam and just build a fire wall around these countries. Isolate them and allow them to regress and not worry about the gross human rights violation. Have no contact with these people and even go as far as to prevent immigration from these countries to protect ourselves from the importation of hard line radical religious beliefs.
C.B. I am not trying to be glib in the above comment, I am truly puzzled as to the best solution. Should we just leave them to their own devises. Should we adopt a policy of isolationism as the US did after the First World War. Lets be honest, most of these countries with the exception of fossils fuels have very little that we require and these countries for the most part of moderate. With NFLD coming online, and AB producing fossils fuels, we could very easily with construction of a nation wide pipe line and the building of an electrical energy grid from east to west still pay world prices thus avoiding another NEP and the political fallout of such and be totally energy sustained from within Canada. Most of our imported fossils fuels are utilized in Eastern Canada and they are bought overseas for ease of logistics not for the fact that we couldn’t supply them ourselves if need be.
Haltonjohn, your a sorry specimen of a human being. You have been given a privilege to post on Garths site & you have the guts to call him an ass hole. Are you retarded or what? Grow up already.
Cheers
The Sikh response…
Lek insane ka katal sari insaniyat ka katal hain.
this is no time for Western myopia.
Garth,
You are officially a Liberal. Instead of leading off your post on Bhutto’s death with any sort of substance, you go ahead and attack the Prime Minister because you don’t like the way he delivered a statement.
All Liberals do is talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk with no action plan.
It truly is disgraceful that a Member of Parliament is willing to go this low and try and make politics out of an unfortunate death.
Shame on you.
witch ~ don’t ya just love those stupid mistakes you find AFTER you post? ‘which’. L
A woman lost her life doing what she felt led to do. Tragic for her family, and what might have been.
Prime Minister Harper already chastised Musharraf, as he lead the debate for the Commonwealth to suspend Pakistan very recently.
The PM also got on China’s case for human rights’ abuses. Who yelled the loudest here in Canada when that happened?
From the National Post and CTV:
“Canada’s other big move internationally is related to the upcoming meeting of Commonwealth leaders in Uganda. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has come out and said that Pakistan should be suspended from the Commonwealth unless Gen. Musharraf ends the state of emergency and restores the constitution.”
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071122/queen_uganda_071122
What does Dion say? Stop sending all funding to Pakistan now?
Send in The UN?
Where is he?
Pakistan is a problem, but more than one neighbor is taking advantage of its confusion.
India’s and China’s armies participated in joint war games recently.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7153179.stm
Does Dion think we should continue sending Canadians’ funds, in its many forms, to those ‘developing’ countries?
There is more to think about than what the PM wears as he lands in Ottawa.
So Garth, In your response to Leasa 11:18 am. , are you repeating your assertion that ” he ” (George Bush) “would have seen and approved” the message that Harper delivered?
Wow, that’s way over the top, even for you Garth!
That`s not what I said. Rather, that PMO`s statement, issued independently of the prime minister (who was travelling back from his holiday), would have been reviewed and prporved by Mr. Harper before being issued. — Garth
You are officially a Liberal.
By John Frain on 12.28.07 11:30 am
Correct. A centre-based Liberal, who is prepared to take all points of view into account, and thus have a much clearer understanding of what a situation is.
Unlike the hard-nosed, ultra right-wing CRAPpers, such as yourself, who vent their opinions (read: garbage which no one really pays any attention to anyway), so spout off all you want.
It makes no difference to the rest of us, other than giving us a chuckle for the moment.
KH on 12.28.07 11:21 am,
The question we need to ask is what “values” are we most interested in exporting: capitalist or democratic. There has a widespread assumption that capitalism and democracy could co-exist and some even saw them as being the same thing. As I see it, the extreme form of capitalism that has been evolving since the fall of the Soviet Block is inconsistent with democracy.
The reason that it is becoming inconsistent is that capitalism demands high levels of social control in order to mitigate risk. As the interests of those who control capital and the interests of the vast majority diverge, democracy does not provide the level of risk control that capital demands.
For those on the extreme right, to protect capital, democracy must be rigidly controlled making it an ineffective means of expressing the popular will. This is why populism is really inconsistent with extreme right wing ideology.
In developing countries such as Pakistan, who are eager for capital investment, the elite see social control as more important than democracy because democracy threatens their power. This is why right wing governments in democratic countries prefer to shore up authoritarian right wing administrations in the developing world than promote democracy other than in theory.
If we want democracy to develop in these countries we have to be willing to take a risk and stop empowering military dictatorships or trying to manipulate the outcome of elections in order to protect the elite.
At the same time, if we are going to get involved we have to focus on the protection of civil society and assisting that society to create its own economy rather than facilitating foreign ownership and control and protecting undemocratic and often corrupt political administrations.
Garth – if you were to check your facts you would see that the Prime MInister’s written “statement” was the same words he first spoke at the airport when he met with reporters. So, he got to the airport, made a statement and then his office transcribed what he said into an issued statement.
With all going on in the world you are so petty and single minded in your hatred for youStephen Harper that you nit pick he was not wearing a suit to the airport!!!!!
Do you really think Canadians want small minded people to grapple with big issues on our behalf?
In my humble opinion, the tragedy of the assassination of a leading political figure in Pakistan should not be a source of division or party politics in Canada. It should be a uniting factor that unites all politicians who want peace on earth.
Why do I say this?
It is because Pakistan and her nuclear weapons are in danger of falling into the hands of Islamic radicals. Such radicals have attempted to assassinate Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf multiple times in the last few years, hoping to seize control of the government and to impose sharia law.
Yesterday’s attack is a sobering reminder that Pakistan is just one coup d’etat away from the prospect of nuclear weapons getting into the hands of those who would impose sharia law by force.
And their designs to impose sharia law does not stop with Pakistan. Let’s not wait until this movement of suicide bombing comes to our shores before we stand solidly with those who love peace in Pakistan without trying to score political points in Canada in the process.
This crisis should be uniting us rather than dividing us.
The 1984esque nature of our, and the west in general’s, foreign affairs policies sterilize us when it comes to spreading our way of thinking and affecting change in regions like the Middle East. The fact that we set no clear target as to how to win our favour simply makes us look foolish in the eyes of other nations.
Yeah, the Iranian guy’s a bit of a clown but why on earth do we hammer on him and cosy up to the likes of the Saudis? Iran is a heck of a lot more forward thinking than Saudi Arabia! In Iran, little girls go to school and women aren’t jailed or killed for being raped. I suspect that buddy’s nuclear aspirations really do have more to do with keeping the lights on than attacking his neighbors. If he is trying to develop nuclear weapons, can we blame him when we, the west, are so unpredictable?
In regards to the situation in Pakistan, anyone who thinks that we’re going to get answers is a true optimist. Most likely, we’ll never know if this was Mushareff’s dirty work or not.
I can assure everyone reading this that taking military action against Pakistan would be a grave mistake at this point in time. Going into Pakistan would make Iraq look like a walk in the park. Our inconsistency has created the rock and a hard place situation that we find ourselves in today.
We as Canadians also need to set clear goals for our government. When we act in a partisan manner and go after Stephen Harper for things like shaking his child’s hand as opposed to hugging them it sends the wrong message. When the CPC focus more on attacking Stephane Dion and have more photos of him than SH…again…wrong message.
Now, I like Garth. Although we don’t always agree, I think that he’s an outstanding MP. He works hard and listens. That said, his post would have carried much more weight in my eyes if he hadn’t even mentioned SH. Just a thought Garth.
Let’s look forward to a new year and hope that it’s a good one. If you’re reading this and you don’t have a new year’s resolution in mind yet, please accept my humble suggestion…SPEAK UP because your voice counts!!!
Where did you hear that she was shot to death? Are you making things up in your haste to sritisize the P.M. for your personal dislike of him?
“Bhutto’s medical report did show no bullet was found in her body,” said Cheema.
Well said Garth…..Having been employed in security, this I can tell y’all …NEVER allow the perosn you are protecting to ride in vehicle with an sun roof, Never! Benazir Bhutto was well aware she was a target and would be killed sooner or later, she also knew many have already been killed and many more would be in her quest to obtain power to which there was no certainty she would win let alone be allowed to govern with the respect of military. As for our poor excuse as a Prime Minister, to link this to the War on Terror is a grave error, leaders are assinated due to power struggles always have been and always will be. For our PM to say this is truely unprofessional. Most the US candiadates would now like to make this the button issue in the upcoming primaries. The latest reports are that the people (voters) are having nothing to do with it….Why? because they can read silly! They are about to loose their homes, their jobs, their health care, there is no money in the fund for OAS and education is being slashed while the country is in ruin with the infrusturcture falling apart and these Neo Con Clowns want to give Trillions to the Winds of War under George Dubya Bushes War on Terror……and to think 30% of Canadians still want to go south and buy “Stars and Stripes” undergarments in support of their Washington heros and it’s nothern puppet Stevie boy Harper.
I understand why some people dislike the Liberals, the NDP and even the Bloc but for the love of God, why in that dislike do they want to Americanize Canada in the process. Reform/Alliance/Conservative is in no way the PC Party, take your blinders off, it’s Reform whith Washington based Neo Conservative toppings. Afghanistan is a disaster and will be worst than Iraq, and Taliban and Al Queda are now stonger than ever….Why?
Let’s look forward to a new year and hope that it’s a good one. If you’re reading this and you don’t have a new year’s resolution in mind yet, please accept my humble suggestion…SPEAK UP because your voice counts!!!
By Andrew McDonnell on 12.28.07 12:48 pm
Andrew – I think that’s what WE are doing on Garth’s & other’s blogs and Lets to the Editor. Unfortunately, most Canadians haven’t woke up to what is really happening to Canada under Harper. They’re too busy trying to make a living and worrying how they’re going to pay their mortgages, child daycare, save for retirement and their children’s education. Their paycheques haven’t kept pace with inflation while the CEO’s of the banks, major corps and govt. members at all levels increase their perks and cheques, pension plans without accountability, while screaming they’ve got to raise taxes to meet our needs.
I wonder if anyone actually read the full article that I posted above “Reconciling Fascism with Reality
By Pervez Dastoor.
I ask, is this the kind of Canada you want to live in. Let’s clean our own house before we try to impose our values on other countries.
Personally, I don’t give a darn what Harper wore when he said what he did. I do care, however, that he basically repeated what GWB said. I care that Canada should have its own, unique foreign and domestic policies, and not just follow those of the US.
Nice try, though. — Garth
Ditto, Garth. I was sincere in what I said. What more did you want him to say at this early stage? Would it have been better if he had faked tears? Called for Musharraf’s death? What are you looking for? Honestly.
Did Mr. Harper, or did he not weeks ago lead the world to sanction Musharraf for the lack of democracy when he imposed marshal law? You know he did and he did it without input of the U.S. That was my friend was Canada speaking clearly and independently.
Unless Garth you want to be accused of speaking only from some sort of deep hate-on for the Prime Minister, you should also give credit where it’s due.
Remember this is very complicated and to form a lynch mob for Musharraf, you must also consider all of the fall-out first. For example; I mentioned China. Do you think it would be a good idea to spark a war with China? Or do we speak out more against China for their many human rights violations and also speak out about the FACT that most bombs that are blowing up our soldiers are made in China?
I think Mr. Harper is wise to hold his tongue and get the facts all in before he guides Canada in this mess.
Has Dion said a single word yet on this? Where does the LPOC stand, what would they do? So far…the silence is deafening.
Sincerely,
Leasa
Has Dion said a single word yet on this? Where does the LPOC stand, what would they do? So far…the silence is deafening.
Sincerely,
Leasa
By Leasa on 12.28.07 1:21 pm
The silence may be deafening because opposition leaders seldom get media coverage until a few days after an event has occured. Who is biased now Leasa?
Garth: What more was the Prime Minister to say? Your hate comes through clearly even in a moment such as this!!! CLEAR YOUR HEAD OF ALL THAT HATE!
I certainly do not hate him. I regret him. — Garth
Has this blog become anything more than a 24/7 Harper hate fest?
I don’t recall Halton voters electing someone to become a mouthpiece for Canada’s angry left. Maybe that’s just me.
Speaking of rage and mindlessness, I noticed you made this comment about Benazir Bhutto on your blog: “she was a force for corruption and regression.” Very Conservative of you. — Garth
By Marc on 12.28.07 1:12 pm
First paragraph, bold type says what happened.
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/south-asia/benazir-bhutto-killed-in-a-sniper-attack-five-bullets-were-fired-on-her-updated_10010410.html
Maybe you’re in the wrong profession, Garth. Today’s Wise Words from the front of the Kelowna Daily Courier:
“Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be smart enough to understand the game and dumb enough to think it’s important.” — Eugene McCarthy
Leasa, Leasa, you keep on lamenting about the lack of a statement from Stephane Dion when in fact he issued his statement immediately.
Pasted here for your pleasure: Media Releases
Statement by the Honourable Stéphane Dion, Leader of the Opposition, on the Assassination of Benazir Bhutto
December 27, 2007
On behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada and its Parliamentary Caucus, I would like to express my grave sorrow and disappointment at the assassination of former Pakistani Prime Minister and Opposition Leader Benazir Bhutto.
We strongly condemn the actions of the people behind the attack that killed Ms. Bhutto. The assassination of Ms. Bhutto puts the security of the entire region at risk and undermines the cause of democracy and freedom in Pakistan. I believe that this matter must be investigated in an open and transparent manner, and those responsible must be held accountable.
The global community recognizes that extremism and anti-democratic forces in Pakistan, particularly given that it is a nuclear power, threaten the stability of the region and the world. This attack marks a step backwards for Pakistan, at a time when the nation should be moving forward toward an open and democratic system of government.
Today, we urge all those who sought to work for democratic reforms in Pakistan through Benazir Bhutto to honour her legacy and express their grief in a peaceful manner, so as not to engender further conflict.
Our deepest sympathies go out to the family, friends and supporters of Ms. Bhutto, and to the people of Pakistan, on this tragic day. -end quote
Steve Harper said: “On behalf of the people of Canada, I want to express my sincere condolences to the families of Mrs. Bhutto, as well as to those of the other innocent victims today, and to the people of Pakistan.
We condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. This was an abhorrent act of terror. We hope that the government of Pakistan will act to bring the perpetrators to justice and this cannot be allowed to permit any delay in the return of Pakistan to full democracy, something the people of Pakistan have been waiting for far too long.” -end quote
Bush said: “The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan’s democracy,” he said. “Those who committed this crime must be brought to justice.”
“We stand with the people of Pakistan in their struggle against the forces of terror and extremism. We urge them to honor Benazir Bhutto’s memory by continuing with the democratic process for which she so bravely gave her life,” he said
“The United States strongly condemns this cowardly act by murderous extremists who are trying to undermine Pakistan’s democracy,” he said. “Those who committed this crime must be brought to justice.” (Bush said more but it is chopped up and on YouTube)
He’s already made it clear he thinks full democracy is possible without the leading opposition candidate. That’s enough paint-by-numbers clumsiness for one crisis. He should shut up now.
Dion’s statement is on the website. If you care to look, of course.
Hi Garth,
Well, merely 24 hours after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the government of Pervez Musharraf has stated that, “…investigators have resolved the ‘whole mystery’ behind the opposition leader’s killing and will give details at press conference later Friday.”
Mr. Musharraf has “irrefutable evidence” that al-Qaida and the Taliban were behind the attack. So I guess there’s no need for the thorough investigation that the White House was calling for, yesterday:
Kinda smacks of the quick resolution to the 911 attacks and the bombing in Spain, no?
BTW, here’s a link to an audio photobook from a Getty photographer who was within metres of Ms. Bhutto, taking pictures, during her assassination (you need Flash player 9, at least to view):
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/20071227_BHUTTO_FEATURE/index.html#section1
Best,
-R
Here’s a comment on the story on National Post tat I fully agree with:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2007/12/27/george-jonas-on-the-assassination-of-benazir-bhutto-democracy-isn-t-the-best-medicine-for-pakistan.aspx
Re Harper –
I certainly do not hate him. I regret him. — Garth
You’re full of shit Turner. Your hate flows from every orifice on your disgusting body.
BTW – We regret you.
You may have noticed that I allowed you back on this blog today after your last intemperate outbursts. You’ve just earned yourself a lifetime ban. Go play with Mitrovich and Cluett. — Garth
isn’t that blasphemy or something?
By Haltonjohn on 12.28.07 2:25 pm
Halton, have you been beat with a stupid stick or something? If you want to post in some one’s blog the least you must do is go forth with manners and respect for the fact this blog isn’t your property. You do the CPC no favours with this kind of trash talk. Sorry, but you really have left Garth with no choice here. L
By Emilie on 12.28.07 1:59 pm
Thank you Emilie. I didn’t see or hear from him on the extensive coverage, I didn’t realize he had a written statement out. It appears his thinking is on-side with the world leaders on this issue. I am glad he wasn’t calling for Musharraf’s head.
Thanks again for pointing this out. L
Ok, I’ll say it. Any killing is a tragic event.
…This has got nothing to do with us and we really can’t be sure who is behind it. Get our troops out of Afghanistan and back home. None of this is our business. Let’s not add to the mayhem.
Frig the “World Stage” and the “Theater of War”- The play stinks of blood, power, murder and treachery.
Let’s get our own House in order.
Emilie and Brian – my bad, I should have immediately gone to Dion’s site. But, I still believe that leaders of the opposition don’t get the news coverage until a day or so after the event, contrary to the PM.
I guess Halton John didn’t like his Christmas card.
ye gawds
its the official statment
They could have at least caught the run-on sentence in editing.
shucks. I was hoping one of you would try to cover your tracks by arguing the Liberal dominated media was deliberately keeping Dion below the radar and out of harm’s way on this one.
I think someone wished for a better New Year.
Re Harper –
I certainly do not hate him. I regret him. — Garth
You’re full of shit Turner. Your hate flows from every orifice on your disgusting body.
BTW – We regret you.
You may have noticed that I allowed you back on this blog today after your last intemperate outbursts. You’ve just earned yourself a lifetime ban. Go play with Mitrovich and Cluett. — Garth
By Haltonjohn on 12.28.07 2:25 pm
Yes, it will be a better New Year without the likes of HJ. I just hope Garth that you can check out his IP addy as he’s been posting under various aliases for a long time. He’s quite the sicko.
garth have you always been a total asshole or only since your mother dropped you on your head. You are of the lowest class of animal there every was and only the shit that sucks up to you believe otherwise.
garth get flicked.
I can see the holidays have done a lot to improve the disposition of the Cons. Or was it the polls? In any case, enjoy your last New Year’s in power. — Garth
This blog could be considered sick. A persons’s life has been taken. This is not the fault of the western world. The leaders of countries have spoken and denouced this form of violence. Just stop and think for a moment. If the present president of that country does not remain in charge what direction will that country take. Why does politics in our country have to overshadow what is taking place.
There is very little the USA or Canada can do to correct this problem. Lets just hope that cooler heads pervail and leave the diplomacy up to the Prime Minister. For once can we not all be Canadians and support our Prime Minister.
I still say, are we going to allow Stevie’s govt. to demolish all social programs, one by one, under the radar while we talk about what is going on in the Middle East. Do I feel saddened, disgusted by what is happening there. Yep, but I also feel saddened that as the Palistinian leader (sorry, forget his name) and Olmert are discussing peace talks, Israel is constructing another 700+ apt building in Gaza. Talk about hypocricy. Until Israel gets out of Palestine there will be no peace in the Middle East. And yes, I’m sick of the so called Arab world’s hyprocracy about this issue.
Until we in the western world acknowledge how we have treated the middle east for the last century, we shall bear the brunt of their acts. What is a terrorist? If we in the west defend our rights we called liberators, but those in the middle east or elsewhere are called terrorists. I’m too tired today to check out/post various websites re this subject. But all I can say is that we western so called democracies must acknowledge and learn from history, because we have created this dsyfunctional world.
By Leasa.
I think Mr. Harper is wise to hold his tongue and get the facts all in before he guides Canada in this mess.
Has Dion said a single word yet on this? Where does the LPOC stand, what would they do? So far…the silence is deafening.
Leasa
Sometime ago I said I would not respond to your rantings, however, how can I ignore such hypocrisy as you have written above. Why is good for Harper to hold his tongue, but it is intolerable that Dion do the same thing.
Are you slipping in your bias?
On a lighter note, I look out of my front window and see a winter wonderland. Just a light enough snow to cover all the ground, houses, shrubs and trees. Houses with Chrismas lights. We are fortunate for such scenes. Today we had a woodpecker who found his feeder, our little red squirrel who managed to pull out seeds that he liked until DH moved moved it to a tree where he could not stand on the railing and dig out the seeds. Talk about a little frustrated, angry squirrel. He spent hours trying to get into the feeder. The Blue Jays, Juncos, Black Cap Chikadees, and Morning Doves were happy, however. I know I get very upset with the direction of this govt. and really worry about where we are headed. But, I can still appreciate and love some of the little things in life and, hopefully, from an environmental perspective, will continue to be able to hold dear.
Before we bestow martyrdom on Benazir Bhutto let us look at some of the facts we know. Whether or not BB would have become Prime Minister of her country also that she could change anything in her country is now a moot point.
She stated herself that the Taliban or other extremists would like to kill her and had made many attemps on Musharraf’s life and yet she took extreme risks, even the Pope doesn’t believe that he is invincible and rides in the popemobile, so was she stupid I don’t think so or she wouldn’t have been prime minister before so it appears to me that it was her ego that got in the way of her safety. It is a sad time for the people of Pakistan and indeed for the whole world as it is less safe now than it was two days ago and all this because an opposition leader’s ego got in the way of commonsense.
Ahh Garth, it’s too easy.
Here is the full statement from Stephen Harper, Canada’s Prime Minister.
“”On behalf of the people of Canada, I want to express my sincere condolences to the families of Mrs. Bhutto, as well as to those of the other innocent victims today, and to the people of Pakistan.
We condemn this attack in the strongest possible terms. This was an abhorrent act of terror. We hope that the government of Pakistan will act to bring the perpetrators to justice and this cannot be allowed to permit any delay in the return of Pakistan to full democracy, something the people of Pakistan have been waiting for far too long.”
Here’s your Liberal leader, Stephane Dion’s statement:
“December 27, 2007
On behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada and its Parliamentary Caucus, I would like to express my grave sorrow and disappointment at the assassination of former Pakistani Prime Minister and Opposition Leader Benazir Bhutto.
We strongly condemn the actions of the people behind the attack that killed Ms. Bhutto. The assassination of Ms. Bhutto puts the security of the entire region at risk and undermines the cause of democracy and freedom in Pakistan. I believe that this matter must be investigated in an open and transparent manner, and those responsible must be held accountable.
The global community recognizes that extremism and anti-democratic forces in Pakistan, particularly given that it is a nuclear power, threaten the stability of the region and the world. This attack marks a step backwards for Pakistan, at a time when the nation should be moving forward toward an open and democratic system of government.
Today, we urge all those who sought to work for democratic reforms in Pakistan through Benazir Bhutto to honour her legacy and express their grief in a peaceful manner, so as not to engender further conflict.
Our deepest sympathies go out to the family, friends and supporters of Ms. Bhutto, and to the people of Pakistan, on this tragic day. ”
Seems about the same words as Mr. Harper’s and your hated George Bush’s.
Here is the the statement from the NDP’s leader, Jack Layton
““I would like to express my condolences to Ms Bhutto’s family and to the families of all those killed by this horrific act of violence,†said Layton. “A voice for democracy has been silenced. We express our deepest sympathies for the people of Pakistan and share their loss.†“We know that they are devastated by these events,†said Layton. “We are consulting and reaching out to our Pakistani neighbours and friends today to say that we share their concerns and stand with them.â€
Jackie could not even provide the full statement – his critic side kick made further statement ““This is a test for our government,†said Dewar. “We hope that Canada’s priority will now be responsible diplomatic engagement based on our support for building peaceful and stable democracies.†and “Today, we mourn the loss of Ms. Bhutto and the others killed,†said Dewar. “But in the coming days, we need to get back to the hard work of diplomacy. The people of the region deserve better and we must work with the world community to help countries like Pakistan achieve peaceful and stable democracies.â€
So the only one that deviated from an international statement, is Jack Layton.
Well my DH is hosting a few of his BMW biker guys (and a girl) tomorrow eve. They’ll watch the ‘Fastest Indian’ which, BTW, I would highly recommend even if you are not a biker. I’ve watched it 2X and loved it. And, they’ll watch ‘Long Way Around’. And they’ll have a few, maybe several drinks, and those who are not within walking distance, will bring sleeping bags, etc. DH has a huge projector screen, etc. that the schools were going to trash. I told him he was on his own. Right
Well, here I am, knowing he’d never get his act together in the way of food, getting as much as I can together. I believe most of the women can relate to this. At least he vacuumed and cleaned up the ‘wreck room’ downstairs of all the Christmas boxes. But, I’ll make sure he does the ‘clean up’ 
Christmas is not over until its over.
Can I come? — Garth
What a sad testimony to human greed for power and criminal narcissistic stupidity!
I think no more need be said!
Even her relatives saw the influence of the infidel .
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18965.htm
Garth – may I suggest a topic or 2 – health care and senior citizens home care/alternate housing options.
Just the beginning of…the rest of the story.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/blog/2007/12/pakistan_the_ot.html#
The reason that it is becoming inconsistent is that capitalism demands high levels of social control in order to mitigate risk.
As I see it, the extreme form of capitalism that has been evolving since the fall of the Soviet Block is inconsistent with democracy.
The reason that it is becoming inconsistent is that capitalism demands high levels of social control in order to mitigate risk. As the interests of those who control capital and the interests of the vast majority diverge, democracy does not provide the level of risk control that capital demands.
For those on the extreme right, to protect capital, democracy must be rigidly controlled making it an ineffective means of expressing the popular will. This is why populism is really inconsistent with extreme right wing ideology.
In developing countries such as Pakistan, who are eager for capital investment, the elite see social control as more important than democracy because democracy threatens their power. This is why right wing governments in democratic countries prefer to shore up authoritarian right wing administrations in the developing world than promote democracy other than in theory.
If we want democracy to develop in these countries we have to be willing to take a risk and stop empowering military dictatorships or trying to manipulate the outcome of elections in order to protect the elite.
At the same time, if we are going to get involved we have to focus on the protection of civil society and assisting that society to create its own economy rather than facilitating foreign ownership and control and protecting undemocratic and often corrupt political administrations.
By C. B. Innes on 12.28.07 12:28 pm
I would add to your assessment of “since the fall of the soviet block”, populism etc. Consider my first posts, and content. Refined feudalism.
You said, “If we want democracy to develop in these countries we have to be willing to take a risk and stop empowering military dictatorships or trying to manipulate the outcome of elections in order to protect the elite”.
Dwight Eisenhower said do not maintain standing armies.
To your last para;
You said;
At the same time, if we are going to get involved we have to focus on the protection of civil society and assisting that society to create its own economy rather than facilitating foreign ownership and control and protecting undemocratic and often corrupt political administrations.
If we are going to get involved. The great question.
From what pulpit do we aspire to bestow upon aged civilizations the way, the righteousness, and the salvation?
These regions already have an economy. Their economy. They already have values. Their values. They already have History.Their History. Far longer than ours.
Who are we, to be preaching to, dictating to and demanding of?
Would not our efforts be better expended offering, if we can, a portal for the oppressed to come to our land? A place where we argue, and put forward our ideas, concepts and our humanity?
A place where we can lead, if we have the will to do so. So far, we have accomplished what?
An extension of Feudal Europe. I say this with full realization that all those involved, from little people to the powerful, react to circumstance. The people demand more, so the more educated, better trained, and followers of the family tradition, including the the Great Gart, compensate.
I am going to post an email, to my local Green Party representative, subsequent to this post, which is a message to those who are not students of History, and are lost in the wasteland of lack of understanding.
Those who constantly profess allegiance to the two old failed parties of this country, are so yesterday. (Plagiarized from Mr. Gart.)
We are bigger than them. We outnumber them. Our voice, is the voice of the Nation.
Speak out at the nominating convention. Don’t let them determine who you are. Don’t let them tell you how you can sell your soul. Don’t be a Mulroney. The Humble descendant of an Electrician.
In the words of Cassius Clay, aka Muhammad Ali, “No Vietcong ever called me Nigger.”
Power to the People.
Re: Halton John
Thanks Garth. We do not need his “hate” in this form.
I seem to remember that Musharraf confined Bhutto to her house to keep her from becoming a target of extremists. Everybody in the west jumped up and down about it, demanding that she be allowed to go around freely. She was.
Why would Musharraf want to unleash this mess in his own country? I’m no fan of military dictatorships, but I can’t see any reason why he would do this.
The U.S. seemd to be backing both Bhutto and Musharraf. It was Condoleezza Rice that lured Bhutto out of retirement and persuaded her that she should go to Pakistan and sort things out. When was the last time Rice had a good idea? Her peacemaking skills aren’t exactly legendary.
We may never know who was responsible for the blast that caused her to hit her head on the sunroof handle and fracture her skull. The bullets missed her and she wasn’t hit by shrapnel.
The guy who did it is dead, but who was behind it? A lone bomber, a small group of nutcases, a large group of nutcases?
Juan Cole on Informed Comment has a good analysis (as usual).
http://www.juancole.com/
Christmas is not over until its over.
Can I come? — Garth
By kpn on 12.28.07 5:05 pm
Yep, you’re always welcome Garth.
Hi Helen, and thanks for the continuing info. Happy Holidays to you and yours as well, although a little belated, still sincere.
The assassination of Benazir Bhutto transcends words and rational thought. Being a student of History, and humanity; I know there is nothing I can offer or say of value. I can only express my feeling of loss for what might have been. My trepidation. Trepidation is what is intended for us to feel. She could have done great things. I am angry because she is lost to the world. I think if the world had left them alone, they would have worked it out in their own way. They don’t understand us, and we don’t really understand them either. As a whole.
Serving Christmas dinner to the troops just doesn’t instill a whole lot of confidence in me, and I know about Soldiers.
With Sincere wishes for a Happy Holiday Season,
Sincerely,
Greg
helen chenell wrote:
Dr Mark Jaccard explains why economists agree with the
only party asking for a Carbon Tax…
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=daniel1206
Please do not hesitate to contact your local EDA for
more info on any of our Green Policies found at:
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy
Happy New Year!
from the Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe Green Party
Association
The above post was edited because this site is not an advertisement for the Green Party. Unless it wants to make a donation. — Garth
In any case, enjoy your last New Year’s in power. — Garth
By nemississs on 12.28.07 3:20 pm
Attaboy, Garth! Get rid of this lot pronto. They are childish troublemakers who like nothing better than to divide, conquer and rule by threats.
The population of Canada will soon realize how eternally grateful they are that there is a common sense party running the show. Almost time for the show to begin!
The guy who did it is dead, but who was behind it? A lone bomber, a small group of nutcases, a large group of nutcases?
By CM on 12.28.07 5:48 pm
Ask dubya, Ms. Lucifer, phoney tony blair, sarkozky (sp?), etc. — they can all give straight answers — NOT!
Garth and fellow posters, is it possible that before the next election in 2008 our elected Prime Minister could stand in front of the mike and say something from the heart that sounds Canadian. I hope so, beacuse if he does not our children will be asking: Hey Dad/Pappa why did Mr. Harper repeat everything the President of United States said, was he an American, did we have an American for a Prime Minister? Sad hey!
Garth, you are an extraordinarily bitter and resentful man. Please lighten up. It is a time of peace on earth.
Tell that to your freaky Reform buddies. Yuck. — Garth
No doubt many have already read or heard this elsewhere, but it is worth reading for those who haven’t.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071228/bhutto_email_071228/20071228?hub=World&s_name=
Who is biased now Leasa?
By kpn on 12.28.07 1:29 pm
Hi KPN, Yes, I already thanked Emilie for pointing out Mr. Dion’s statement. Yes, I am biased I admit it and I’ve done so several times. Garth knows I’m biased, I am a proud CPC supporter. You know what is missed here on Garth’s blog? Many ‘Liberals’ and ‘CPCs’ are actually on good terms with one another and consider themselves friends. They debate and fight like hell in QP, then when the dust settles they go out for a drink together. It’s true, some vehemently dislike others, but there are those who get along despite the political differences. I think it takes a big person, a mature person to know the difference between the person and the politician. Do you get what I’m trying to say?
………………………………
Very Conservative of you. — Garth
Garth, this statement worries me. Are there any CPC members you like?
L
Tell that to your freaky Reform buddies. Yuck. — Garth
Garth, what is wrong with you today? Have you ever met Preston Manning? There were some very good people in the old Reform Party and most of their policy was terrific. Do you hate all old Reformers? Geesh! Maybe you need to go and buy one of the natural sun lamps, me thinks you have a case of SAD. Leasa
Hi Garth,
Thanks so much for send Halton John on his way.
Greg, you just asked if we are going to get involved. I’m afraid we already are. The pieces are being set up. Young Peter Mackay had dinner with the troops and Hillier and US Ambassador, David Wilkins, who flew there on his own dime you know. And young Peter, on cue had to drop into the conversation that he’s sure that IED’s are coming in from Iran and Pakistan (sorry Leasa, Peter does not mention China) even tho everyone KNOWS Iran and the Taliban hate each other and don’t flip flop like others are know to do. The enemy of my enemy is my friend does not wash in this instance.
In any case…in any case it’s good to have friends at your back in these situations isn’t it? Especially when it’s for things that go boom? That’s good, right? Like this:
Raytheon Company (NYSE:RTN) has received a $17 million U.S. Army contract to build 462 TOW
(Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided) Bunker Buster missiles for the Canadian Army.
What I don’t understand is why a US Army contract for Bunker Buster’s. Is our credit not good enough? I thought it was better than theirs.
The Canadian contract is the first international sale of the TOW Bunker Buster missile, which employs a fragmenting, high-explosive warhead designed to breach or destroy a multitude of target sets — particularly those in complex urban terrain.
Under this contract, Raytheon will deliver the new wireless radio frequency command data link version of the TOW Bunker Buster missile to Canada.
more at the link:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=149999&TICK=RTN&STORY=/www/story/11-14-2007/0004705438&EDATE=Nov+14,+2007
Sorry for the long url.
So now Steve has ordered up Bunker Buster missiles for us. Interesting how they work. I went to the “How things work” website, very handy as I’m not into explosives at all myself. I guess we will use them somewhere tho. Afghanistan, Pakistan, those hills inbetween. No, that’s not a complex urban terrain. Maybe Iran like Peter wants so Bush Co. could come in after maybe? What do I know. Shrubya may call martial law and delay the vote down there. Or his nasty VIP might. They are capable of most anything. And I believe that Steve would more than likely help out in any stupid scheme.
In the meantime, our 2500 guys, and gals, have a new way to kill folk in interesting ways.
Another thing I recently learned is that the Chalk River Reactor still uses weapons grade uranium. They were supposed to downgrade to a lighter less dangerous grade like most others but they have been stalling. Dragging their heels. Must be a reason for that too.
Someone on the Hill must know. Don’t you think?
Geo
The rumor mill seems to be working overtime on this subject.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1698828,00.html
By Greg on 12.28.07 5:42 pm
I agree that any involvement in these regions may not be the answer to the problems. The question is once we start interfering with their way of life is it possible to turn back the clock? Can what has already been done to their economy be reversed so they can go back to their old ways?
Can we simply leave the mess we have created in places like the Middle East? Has interfering and then abandoning places like Afghanistan helped create the current situation?
My argument is that capitalism is being (or has been) transformed back into the “isms” it was meant to replace: imperialism and mercantilism. The “capitalist” was supposed to be a local entrepreneur who invested in his community where he could watch over his investment and where the values of the community would act as a check on his behaviour. We have moved beyond that into a model in which the investor knows little first hand about the implications of his investment whether it is in consumer goods or military equipment.
Is bringing the oppressed here the answer? Or will it simply lead to new forms of oppression within our borders?
Everyone knows that George Bush personally writes all of Harper’s speeches and that the leader of the Socialist Party in France writes all of Steve Dion’s. Why is this still newsworthy.?
Is bringing the oppressed here the answer? Or will it simply lead to new forms of oppression within our borders?
By C. B. Innes on 12.28.07 7:41 pm
A very thought proking question CBI. BTW, I thoroughly enjoy your analysis of political questions. I believe you are one of the most non-partisan and politically astute persons on this blog.
This is about Benazir Bhutto interview. Worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
Norman Spector at http://www.members.shaw.ca/nspector4/MIND.htm has more links to analyses and commentaries on Bhutto’s assassination than you will care to pursue, but they are worth sampling, including the one to “House of Graft” by John F. Burns in the NYT.
The worst part is that Bhutto’s death, and what is made of it, and what will be made of it, proves in one object lesson that there is no such thing as truth, fact or logic in politics, national or international. There only is utility.
There are events – arranged, staged or “happenings” in the 1960s sense – and these are put to use by political agents for political purposes. The events are not important in themselves; what is important is their utility to those who can use them.
Bhutto was not assassinated for the hell of it. She was eliminated for a reason, an end. So who did it? Who stood to gain from it? Who now is trying to turn her death into political capital for which cause? It is similar to 9/11: it’s not what happened, it’s what you make of it. You can push democracy by pointing out that a democrat was assassinated because she was a democrat. You can push the War on Terror by pointing to her death as an act of terrorism, or you can say that her death was a consequence of the War on Terror. You now can justify any military action by noting the requirement to keep Pakistan’s nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists. You can blame Musharraf for her death, or you can claim that it proves that not even a military dictatorship can control events in Pakistan.
In short, the interpretations are limited only by the number of players with a stake or interest in that part of the globe. Add the number of domestic political players who have to make hay while the sun shines, and ask yourself what about Bhutto’s death you should believe, based on what factual or logical grounds.
And then join me in the conclusion that to-day’s democrat can believe nothing he is fed, because it all is teleological, being directed to inform, or misinform, or disinform him to act in the way desired by the source and purveyor of the information. Read any thread on any political blog for proof. Democracy, which used to mean government with the consent of the governed, has become a sham because that consent is not informed by facts, but by the selective interests of those who govern or would like to govern.
We can strike a blow for democracy by refusing to believe what we are fed, and putting politicians and parties on notice that we don’t believe them.
Georgine,
your heart is in the right place, but have a heart.
A TOW Bunker Buster missile is a great addition to our military arsenal, because a specific, nasty target can be pin-pointed and destroyed at a safe distance. Using artillery or air power on such targets is inefficient to counter-productive, because both are “area weapons” and can inflict a good deal of collateral damage. Ask President Karzai.
The other way of dealing with such targets is to sneak or shoot your way up, and drop a grenade. Although the classic Infantry way, it is wasteful in casualties – and medals for valour.
Not all military progress is bad, Geo.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Why would Harper and Bush think that still having an elections, 11 days after the main opponent of the election in Pakistan was killed, is a good thing to from a free democratic Government/society there???
Wouldn’t it be better to put the election off for 30 or 90 day so the opposition might find another brave sol to run for there party? Did Miss. Benazir Bhutto have a back up leader of her party? How many in that Parties leadership been killed in the last two bombings?
Who was in charge of security? What training did they have and from who?
Did Miss. Bhutto actions make it very difficult to protect her; given there was already a bomb attempt to kill her?
What would happen if a leader of the opposition or PM of Canada got killed in a bombing or car accident 11 days before an election? Would a Canadian election be delayed?
Hi NRC, ON.,
Thanks for the youtube link above.
She hit her head on the lever of the sun roof. Yeah, uh-huh. Good Lord People, wake up! The CIA trained the Pakistan Intelligence. She JUST saw Karzai. She said on David Frost OBL was DEAD. We’ll never know for sure, but as our guv keeps pointing out we don’t need to.
Harper is so droll I actually wonder if his stones are ever moved. Thing is people, Why do Canucks/Usians KEEP voting in Reds or Blues? Those parties are NOT in YOUR self-interest, they never were, never will be. Those parties are always in corp’s self-interest. People are just simply too stunned to know that. There is a complete chasm here, between Us/Them. The poli’s do nothing to close the gap, nothing. What I can’t help but wonder about the idjits that think we’re stupid is: you have nowhere else to go either, we’re all in this together like it or not. So convince me we’re in an election year. As long as the Us/Them lives on forever in this stupid country, I’m as usual, going to vote Commie, or simply ignore it all.
I got half way through this column and lost any respect I still had for you.
Was that around the point where General Musharraf is mentioned? Remember the Shah of Iran? Another great leader that America propped up, and whose demise thrust the world into strife. This is bad foreign policy. Why do we need to be a part of it? — Garth
Where’s Wajit Khad when you need him!
The CRAP are not the only ones that understand what being full of gas is all about.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071228/flatulence_expert_071228/20071228?hub=Health
So Dubya and Condolizza Rice’s little plan backfired, big time. They were pushing for Musharraf and Bhutto to share power in their attempt to push democracy on Pakistan.
After the first assassination attempt on Bhutto, Musharraf’s decision to declare emergency rule, Bhutto’s public concerns over Musharraf’s desire to provide her security, did the Bush administration not think it was necessary to intervene more aggressively on Bhutto’s behalf? Did the Bush administration not consider Musharraf’s lukewarm attempts to protect Bhutto, let alone include her in government, to represent an intentional resistance to US policy on Pakistan? (The same Pakistani policy that Bush badly needed so that his foreign policy would not be made into a mockery.)
Maybe this particular embarrassment wouldn’t have come to pass had Bush focused his War on Terror on Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden. His refusal to pursue bin Laden and to completely stabilize the democracy in Afghanistan is a primary reason for the political instability in Pakistan, now that the Taliban has regrouped and is starting to regain control of the tribal areas on the Pakistani-Afghani border.
Instead, they sent all of their military and diplomatic resources somewhere else.
They invaded Iraq.
And from the New York Times:
The assassination of Benazir Bhutto on Thursday left in ruins the delicate diplomatic effort the Bush administration had pursued in the past year to reconcile Pakistan’s deeply divided political factions. Now, it is scrambling to sort through ever more limited options, as U.S. influence on Pakistan’s internal affairs continues to decline.
On Thursday, officials at the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad reached out to members of the political party of former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, according to a senior administration official. The very fact that officials are even talking to backers of Sharif, who they believe has too many ties to Islamist parties, suggests how hard it will be to find a partner the United States fully trusts.
The assassination highlights, in spectacular fashion, the failure of two of President Bush’s main objectives in the region: his quest to bring democracy to the Muslim world and his drive to force out the Islamist militants who have hung on tenaciously in Pakistan, the nuclear-armed state considered ground zero in Bush’s fight against terrorism, despite the administration’s long-running effort to root out al Qaeda from the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
You know, Garth, when you’re faced with an atrocity of this scale, and the very first words out of your (blog) mouth are, “Our prime minister has learned diplomatic obfuscation well,” perhaps it’s time to step off the campaign trail just a moment. This really isn’t about you.
Actually the first words were those of PMSH, which is what the blog posting is about. Canada has abandoned its independent foreign policy in the world, and is falling more and more into the American orb, which is not always a positive thing. That’s the obvious subject of this article< and I suggest you offer an opinion on that. -- Garth
Dear Readers,
I guess the REAL QUESTION is…
What did Ms. Bhutto’s leadership represent that was SOOOOooooo dangerous to the Taliban that Mr. Musharraf’s leadership doesn’t???
For goodness sake, there hasn’t been even one Taliban ATTEMPT on Musharraf ‘s life.
What gives?
My sincere condolences go out to the family and friends of Ms. Bhutto.
It has been Ms. Bhutto’s life work to has sow the seeds of grassroots democracy in Pakistan and around the world, and, sadly, it required the taking of her life to incite wide scale grassroots action for people-based democracy in Pakistan.
May the people of Pakistan, both at home and around the world, be steadfast in pursuit of her vision with a dignified calm and relentless determination, as was Ms. Bhutto’s example, so that she may Rest in Peace.
Sincerely,
MB
By Emilie on 12.29.07 1:42 am
Nice work Emilie……you have explained it well.
Listening to Harper’s mentors you would think this women was going to save the world and America’s interests. Good God when will North America wake up to fact that the Neo Cons who continue to push “Democracy by Force” will save the world…..George “Dubya” Bush along with his Neo Con Friends….are now responsible for over one million dead people in this regiion, of course they did not personally do it! But they did invade both countries and continue to ask the world (NATO & UN) for support to continue to use force for peace. Once again Ladies and Gentlemen….what did these people do to you to deserve military aggression rained on them….”Do not give me that 9/11 crap!. they came from Saudi Arabia remember and were trained in the US to fly their aircraft only, never once asked how to land or take off….hmmm. America’s own 9/11 commission stated. Saddam had “Nothing” to do with it!
Oil and Drugs are big bussiness….Iraq has oil and Afghanistan has drugs…and Stevie Harper first task was to feed the Winds of Wars by raising Canada’s stake providing untendered contracts to War Machine here in Canada & the US…follow the money!
Afghanistan is disaster, and with open borders in Packistan, the Taliban and Drug Lords rule and will do as they see fit while allowing Billions of Internations Aid money to fow into their countries to which they will decide where it is spent…..who are the dummies here…..follow the money!
Where’s Wajit Khad when you need him!
By Stephen Smith on 12.29.07 12:26 am
He was on CTV yesterday. Why don’t you do research, before opening your trap!
By Emilie on 12.29.07 1:42 am
And you my dear, are salivating because of the events. So you can, yet again, lay the blame on the USA. I’m starting to see a pattern here. The “libs” don’t really want any stability in the region – can there be some hidden agenda here?
This was a very courageous lady. While she did not espouse all the values a western society like the US would have liked, she was loved by her people.
Is there any truth to the story that Peter McKay and the US consulate member to Afghanistan took a Canadian plane to Afghanistan over Christmas? No opposition members, just the two of them? His statement in Afghanistan about Iran being a threat sounds a little off in light of Butto’s tragic death. Someone commented earlier that Musharraf doesn’t seem to be a target of the militant factions that inhabit Pakistan.
“For goodness sake, there hasn’t been even one Taliban ATTEMPT on Musharraf ‘s life.
What gives?”
By MB on 12.29.07 7:57 am
Where did you get the notion that the Taliban has never tried to kill Musharraf? Actually they’ve tried a few times…
President Pervez Musharraf escaped an assassination attempt here on Thursday, the second in 11 days, when two suicide bombers plowed their vehicles into his motorcade and detonated car bombs.
He was unhurt, but Pakistani officials said the bombs had killed at least 14 people, including both bombers. At least 46 other people were wounded, they said.
It was the deadliest attempt on General Musharraf’s life since he reversed Pakistan’s support for the Taliban in Afghanistan.
A simple Google search will show you the most recent and if you read your searches long enough, you will see al qaeda tried to take him out a few times also.
Garth, Mr. Harper is as likely to get his talking points from G.W. as Mr. Dion is to get his from Nicolas Sarkozy.
Leasa
With malice toward none, and with charity towards all, I would like to joint with Prime Minister Steven Harpere, Opposition Leader Stephane Dion, and all of the government leaders who have sent their condolences to the family and friends of Ms. Bhutto during that time of grief which adversely affects ALL of us. We live in an inter-connected and inter-related world. What affects one, affects all. We share this planet together. Let us pray that we will learn to get along.
Leasa – you try to portray all CPC people (Finlay, Harper, etc) as warm and fuzzy and ready for American Idol – but you sure don’t know what you’re talking about – Sarkozy is a very “right-wing” conservatives.
If you can’t understand that – how could you possibly understand the complexity of Pakistan.
Again, girl, do your homework.
By Leasa on 12.29.07 8:44 am,
On a non-partisan basis it is the similarity in “thinking” between the new Conservatives and the Bush Administration that causes concern, whether Harper was parroting Bush directly or not.
At this point it is Harper and his executive that are in charge, not Dion and it is the PM’s response that is of the main concern.
We have a major problem with western leaders making decisions that often have a negative impact on individuals and cultures that they do not understand.
The U.S. and its allies took a major risk in encouraging Musharraf to have elections and to invite Benazir Bhutto back to Pakistan. Bhutto was willing to take the risk but no one at this point knows the implications of “losing the game.”
The other element that complicates the issue for Canada is Peter MacKay blaming Iran for arming the Islamists just before Bhutto’s assassination. That makes no sense in the context of the Middle East. It would have made more sense to blame Saudi Arabia but the latter is considered an ally because of western dependence on its oil.
Based on other issues it is becoming more evident that our current Prime Minister has problems dealing with unexpected developments and internationally it is easy to follow the U.S. position. I suspect this is what shaped the PM’s message. MacKay appears to have been doing the same thing by aligning the government with the anti-Iran policy of the Bush Administration. The question is whether the government has evidence of Iranian involvement or is merely parroting the Bush Administration in making false claims.
This is the problems that occur when ideological principles come into conflict in a far more complicated world than the black and white neo-conservative/neo-liberal ideology postulates. Following the principle that the “ends justfy the means” often results in unanticipated ends.
Remember that we know squat about Bhutto’s death, her actual policies, and her likely effect on Pakistan and the region. But here’s a hint -
Consider the tales of convenience handed to and unfurled by CPC hacks such Catherine and Leasa, accept these as the official neo-con and neo-Republican political fiction – and assume the opposite.
This will be as close to the truth as you can get until the propaganda has been discredited by events.
Greg W. Personally I agree the election should be delayed, but on the political side of the house and I am sure that when you sit back and think about it, doing that unless you can get the other parties to make a joint statement of agreement is again horrible optics. You have one party leaderless right now, the other party being lead by a person who cannot stand for election because of a criminal record which if I remember correctly is the same rules we have in Canada. What a mess, I actually believe we should be thankful for our screwed up parties and their leadership.
By C. B. Innes on 12.29.07 9:51 am
CB, should Obama (Democrat) win the Presidency, and enact his plan to invade Pakistan, as he has stated, would you feel better then? Would you want your leader, Stephane Dion, to follow suit?
Quite frankly, this linking of Harper to George Bush is getting quite passe and boring. There are many examples, that Stephen Harper has not sided with President Bush’s administration (i.e. northen passage, border passes, etc.).
And CB, would you want to have our Government side in with China?
I caught Chretien on “the hour” last evening… and he stated that he signed Kyoto agreement, as he didn’t give a damn, as this was his last term. Seems to me that Trudeau enacted NEP in his dying days (I guess he didn’t give a damn) and now Chretien has come clean on Kyoto. That is probably why Canada’s emission rose in his first 2 majority administration.
By Leasa on 12.29.07 8:44 am
Dear Leasa,
Quoting from the same article Published: December 26, 2003 that you quoted from (sheesh… did you really have to go back 4 years??), are a couple of the paragraphs you left out…
“The latest attack occurred only 200 yards from where a bomb nearly killed the general on Dec. 14, on a route that he travels frequently. No one died in that attack.
Both assassination attempts took place in Rawalpindi, a tightly guarded city that holds the headquarters of Pakistan’s Army. They sent shock waves through Pakistan’s military establishment and raised questions about the quality of the general’s security, as well as whether some police or army officials are assisting the attackers.
Pakistani officials declined to blame any specific group. ”It is too early to identify the perpetrators,” said Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan, a military spokesman.
”It is too early to identify the perpetrators”???
Alrighty then.
Musharraf went on to claim that it was “extremists and terrorists”.
Okey dokey Mr. Musharref.
And in the few Musharraf asassination attempts since 2003 there have been NO claims of repsonsibility by Al Qaeda, only ‘Government Intelligence’ CALIMS of Taliban responsibility.
In the few asassination attempts since 2003 there have been one or two MEMBERS of the asassination cabal that have had LOOSE CONNECTIONS to Taliban groups.
And now we have, according to Musharraf and his ‘Intelligence’, the Taliban responsible for the sniper(s) and suicide bomber that killed Benzir Bhutto.
So I guess the REAL QUESTION is…
What did Ms. Bhutto’s leadership represent that was SOOOOooooo dangerous to the Taliban that Mr. Musharraf’s leadership doesn’t???
Sniper(s) and a suicide bomber in an open place with minimal security rather than only a single suicide bomber on a well traveled Musharraf route in the heart of the Pakistani Military territory.
Hmmmmmm….
You’re reachin’ Leas.
Have a Happy New Year, and I’m certain 2008 will be better than your horrific 2007.
Way to keep on smilin’ kiddo!
Sincerely,
MB
I note some comments by Robert Fisk in The Independent, it may be a little too early tolabel Ms. Bhutto “a mythic woman” until all the facts are in place garth.
“… Of course, given the childish coverage of this appalling tragedy – and however corrupt Ms Bhutto may have been, let us be under no illusions that this brave lady is indeed a true martyr – it’s not surprising that the “good-versus-evil” donkey can be trotted out to explain the carnage in Rawalpindi.
Who would have imagined, watching the BBC or CNN on Thursday, that her two brothers, Murtaza and Shahnawaz, hijacked a Pakistani airliner in 1981 and flew it to Kabul where Murtaza demanded the release of political prisoners in Pakistan. Here, a military officer on the plane was murdered. There were Americans aboard the flight – which is probably why the prisoners were indeed released.
Only a few days ago – in one of the most remarkable (but typically unrecognised) scoops of the year – Tariq Ali published a brilliant dissection of Pakistan (and Bhutto) corruption in the London Review of Books, focusing on Benazir and headlined: “Daughter of the West”. In fact, the article was on my desk to photocopy as its subject was being murdered in Rawalpindi.
Towards the end of this report, Tariq Ali dwelt at length on the subsequent murder of Murtaza Bhutto by police close to his home at a time when Benazir was prime minister – and at a time when Benazir was enraged at Murtaza for demanding a return to PPP values and for condemning Benazir’s appointment of her own husband as minister for industry, a highly lucrative post.
In a passage which may yet be applied to the aftermath of Benazir’s murder, the report continues: “The fatal bullet had been fired at close range. The trap had been carefully laid, but, as is the way in Pakistan, the crudeness of the operation – false entries in police log-books, lost evidence, witnesses arrested and intimidated – a policeman killed who they feared might talk – made it obvious that the decision to execute the prime minister’s brother had been taken at a very high level.”
When Murtaza’s 14-year-old daughter, Fatima, rang her aunt Benazir to ask why witnesses were being arrested – rather than her father’s killers – she says Benazir told her: “Look, you’re very young. You don’t understand things.” Or so Tariq Ali’s exposé would have us believe. Over all this, however, looms the shocking power of Pakistan’s ISI, the Inter Services Intelligence.
This vast institution – corrupt, venal and brutal – works for Musharraf. …”
Will Prime Minister Harper’s panel of 5 private persons (thought we paid, and trusted, our parliamentarians to reach national and international policy) use Ms. Bhutto’s death to extend Canada’s military excersise in Afghanistan and increase defence spending in the private sector?
Catherine on 12.29.07 11:51 am,
I really should not bother responding to such stupid comments. Your view of black and white politics (Liberal vs Conservative)reveals a mind that functions only in a narrow partisan world.
You may find the linking of Harper to Bush as boring but remember that he is the one who has advocated linking Canada to the U.S. coattails and has followed that conservative “principle” since taking office.
The major problem within the United States, and its allies, is that all the potential leaders are imperialists. They all see the world in the terms of promoting imperialist interests with the use of hard power.
When a real leader emerges, something more than a follower of the imperialistic “conventional wisdom” then both Americans and Canadians will have something to vote for and it will make no difference whether he or she is Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative, or under some totally different label.
What’s with the recent attempt on this blog to link Dion with Sarkozy? Just because they’re both french?
As friends in France tell it, they’re calling him “Sarko the American”, “Sarkobush” and “Bushkozy”…if there’s evidence of Dion being told what to do by the right-wing Sarkozy, I’d sure be interested to see it!
“You may find the linking of Harper to Bush as boring but remember that he is the one who has advocated linking Canada to the U.S. coattails and has followed that conservative ‘principle’ since taking office.” –C. B. Innes.
C. B., do you have a reference to where Harper has “advocated linking Canada to U. S. coatails?”
Are you referring to Canadian involvement in the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan?
Canada is in Afghanistan at the request of the democratically elected government, along with 36 other nations, and as part of the UN-sanctioned mission to help build a stable, democratic, and self-sufficient society.
The results of the poll of Afghans by Environics on behalf of the Globe and Mail, the CBC and La Presse were surprising to many. Afghans are broadly content with their government, happy that Canada is in Afghanistan, and believe the work being done is beneficial and effective.
Yet you would seem to relate this type of nation-building and assistance to those countries fighting for freedom as “imperialism.”
You state, “The major problem within the United States, and its allies, is that all the potential leaders are imperialists. They all see the world in the terms of promoting imperialist interests with the use of hard power.”
I suppose that the U. S. and its allies in Europe were also “imperialists” in fighting Nazism and Fascism in World War II, and since “all the potential leaders” in the U. S. are imperialists, I assume that this includes Obama and Hillary Clinton?
CB, I thought you were objective and neutral, but you are beginning to come across as an extremist.
What’s with the recent attempt on this blog to link Dion with Sarkozy? Just because they’re both french?
As friends in France tell it, they’re calling him “Sarko the Americanâ€, “Sarkobush†and “Bushkozyâ€â€¦if there’s evidence of Dion being told what to do by the right-wing Sarkozy, I’d sure be interested to see it!
By maggie on 12.29.07 12:43 pm
Maggie – just garbage from someone who knows nothing about Sarkozy.
“I suppose that the U. S. and its allies in Europe were also “imperialists” in fighting Nazism and Fascism in World War II [? ...]”
By Ike on 12.29.07 1:21 pm
Dear Ike,
Uhhhhh… NO!!!
In case you forgot, the U.S. JOINED the ‘natives’ on their soil in helping to obliterate Nazism and Facism in World War II.
In Afghanistan and Iraq the U.S. imperialists UNILATERALLY LAUNCHED AN ATTACK against terrorism on foreign soil.
Terror of some degree rears it’s ugly head in every city of every nation every single day Ike.
So tell me, with all of this terror going on why did the U.S. imperialists initiate their UNILATERAL ATTACK on terror in Afghanistan and Iraq rather than on their own soil???
Speaking of terror Ike, have you been to a U.S. mall or school lately?
Please Advise.
Sincerely,
MB
“Canada is in Afghanistan at the request of the democratically elected government, along with 36 other nations, and as part of the UN-sanctioned mission to help build a stable, democratic, and self-sufficient society.” – Ike, at 1:21 PM
And there you have it, the world according to our neo-Republicans. It’s almost as good as Colin Powell selling WMD at the UN.
The question is whether they actually are simple-minded enough to believe it themselves, or whether they merely think that the rest of us is simple-minded enough to buy it.
By Ike on 12.29.07 1:21 pm
Personally I thought CB. was totally unbiased in his analysis.
As for the coat-tails, not only would we be in Afghanistan, originally at the request of the US as part of the coalition of the willing supported by the UN, but Mr. Harper would have has us in Iraq as well. Do you remember the “Cretien doesn’t speak for me” bumper stickers, or Mr. Harper’s trip to the US. to critise the Cretien decision?
As for WWII, remember the US. didn’t enter into the war until Pearl Harbour. At that point it became in their best interests to get actively involved.
What the press glossed over is that compared to a previous study by the same company the numbers are getting worse. Except for the Taliban. Their numbers were up.
Ike on 12.29.07 1:21 pm,
The question I need you to answer is how you define “freedom.” You have no way of determining other than through the spin fed to you about what the people of Afghanistan really want and what kind of “freedom” that is being promoted by the governments involved in the war.
I will use a quote to underline Harper’s position: “Conservatives must take the moral stand, with our allies, in favour of the fundamental values of our society, including democracy, free enterprise and individual freedom. This moral stand should not just give us the right to stand with our allies, but the duty to do so and the responsibility to put ‘hard power’ behind our international commitments.” He went on to say: “A more coherent coalition can take strong positions it wouldn’t otherwise be able to take — as the Alliance was able to do during the Iraq war.”
There is an inherent contradiction between forcing a society to accept your version of free enterprise (global capitalism) and individual freedom.
When one or more outside countries tell you who can rule your country then you are a victim of imperialism, especially when you were invaded and the established regime ousted.
If Germany had not invaded other countries and the allies invaded Germany first they would have been engaged in imperialism but that was not what happened.
Just a historical footnote to James-Chatham’s above -
The USA entered the war against Japan when they were attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbour.
They entered the European war with a declaration of war on Germany AFTER HITLER HAD DECLARED WAR ON THE USA.
Your an ass hole Turner.
By Haltonjohn on 12.28.07 9:25 am
Classic case of “the pot calling the kettle black”!
Hillier’s popularity backfires on Tories
Dec 27, 2007 04:30 AM
James Travers
OTTAWA
Rick Hillier is more than the most visible military leader in decades and the Canadian face on the Afghanistan war. He’s also a prototype new mandarin; one politicians are now using to their advantage and will soon deeply regret inviting on to the public stage.
Chosen by Liberals to personify more muscular defence policies and deployed by Conservatives to market the Kandahar mission, the street-smart, media-savvy Newfoundlander hasn’t always been helpful to his political masters.
Once a parliamentary principle, the bargain that allows mandarins to speak truth to power from the shadows while ministers stand in the spotlight is so badly broken that few noticed when Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day left it to the border agency’s Alain Jolicoeur to answer awkward questions about the how and why of the Vancouver airport Taser horror.
Sadly, Day’s sudden modesty isn’t an anomaly. Despite at least partly winning the last election on the strength of their accountability promise, Conservatives are accelerating the Ottawa tactic of passing the buck so often to so many people that where it stops is a mystery. More bureaucrats are appearing in public and the Prime Minister is making a habit of appointing panels answerable only to him to consider public policy issues that were once the purview of those we elect.
http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/288876
You know what I think of the word terrorism? Terrorism is a state of controlling people by spewing propaganda. We are being terrorised every day by WCB & our very own governments. Take a look at OBL for example. He is dead, has died capoot, no more. But according to the media, he is very much alive & has made another threat.
According to MS Bhutto in a television interview with David Frost, she stated the fact that he is dead & named who killed him but the media lead by our leaders keep saying that he is alive. Who do I believe? Certainly not the WGB or SH.
I don’t believe for a minute that Canadians will be attacked by terrorism ever other than by words suggesting otherwise.
Thats my opinion & I’m sticking to it.
Cheers
2007 Hall of Shame.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/archive/2007/12/29/2007-year-in-review.aspx
Whoops, should of said GWB on my last post. So sorry.
A Lilly Tomlin moment:
The Truth..today there is no Truth
And that is so sad, but true
And that’s the Truth.
how can we ever go back?
sometimes the only solace to knowing that you’re getting older, and sicker is knowing that maybe getting out of this world before it just gets worse, is your only salvation.
Happy New Year folks.
Garth, it’s been a pleasure…thanks for the Blog
I don’t believe for a minute that Canadians will be attacked by terrorism ever other than by words suggesting otherwise.
Thats my opinion & I’m sticking to it.
Cheers
By Irene on 12.29.07 5:52
Irene I dont know where you get the good stuff you are on!! Do you grow it or buy it, I want some??
By Irene on 12.29.07 5:52 pm
Irene gives solid facts, especially why the MSM should essentially be ignored.
ABCNNBCBSFOXBBCCTVCBC (and many others) tell us what THEY are told to tell us — by their higher ups — to us sheeple. Whether we listen is our choice, of course.
Their so-called “reporting” has been carefully scripted and manipulated, so everyone who lives under a dubya-style theocracy thinks they are right and everyone else are dirty scumbag terrorists. Consequently, sheeple don’t even have to think for themselves anymore — it’s all done for them.
As an aside, Anwar Sadat, Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto, JFK, RFK and numerous others who took up political life, did so with a single goal: To be in a position of providing good government, along with the necessities for a person to make a better life for him/herself. The opportunities were always there.
Yet each one, along with their ideas and thoughts has gone now, taken out by individuals who could see that they were going to make a major difference in their respective countries.
The good always die young.
How often would one read this in the MSM? Or see this on the nightly news? I venture to say that it wouldn’t be much more than zero. Ms. Bhutto hit the nail on the head with this one.
http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2007/12/benazir-bhutto-us-policy-causes-world.html
“In Afghanistan and Iraq the U.S. imperialists UNILATERALLY LAUNCHED AN ATTACK against terrorism on foreign soil.” –MB
Uhhhhhh, no!
In both Iraq and Afghanistan, it was a LIBERATION of the people, not an OCCUPATION, and DEMOCRACY was restored.
You are defining as an “imperialist” one who has the support of the democratically elected government of Afghanistan, and by the majority of people there, in combatting terrorism.
The Environics Research poll, released on October 18 on behalf of the Globe and Mail, CBC and La Presse, was based on nearly 1,600 interviews with Afghan men and women.
60% of the respondents said the presence of foreigners in the country was a good thing, while only 16% said it was bad.
43% said foreigners should remain in the country until order is returned, while 25% wanted foreigners to leave immediately or within a year.
Even in Kandahar, where Canadians have been engaged in bloody battles with the Taliban, most still said they wanted foreign soldiers to remain.
Afghans have confidence in NATO forces and are realizing that their lives are improving.
There are enormous positives coming from this poll, first and foremost the fact that a poll can even take in a place like Afghanistan, where very little democracy, very little consultation was taking place with people there.
Respondents were also asked which foreign countries are involved in Afghanistan. Canada had the fourth-highest recognition overall.
The poll was conducted between Sept. 17 and 24 and is considered accurate to within 2.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
Other results from the survey included:
- 60% of respondents said they were better off than they were five years ago.
- 51% said the country is heading in the right direction, while 28% said it was heading in the wrong direction.
- More than 70% had a positive opinion of President Hamid Karzai’s government.
- 73% had a negative opinion of the Taliban, while 54% of respondents said al-Qaida was a negative “Islamic force” in the world.
- More than 70% of respondents felt women are better off today than they were in 2002.
This was some attack that outside imperialists made on Afghanistan that made life better for the majority of the people, and where they now appreciate the right to vote and to choose their own destiny, just as every people group on earth desires self-determination and self-government.
We know that the success of this mission cannot be assured by military means alone. No fewer than 19 UN agencies are in Afghanistan working tirelessly to help theAfghan people and their national government build a democratic and secure society, with freedom for all.
Canada has also deployed diplomats, development workers, civilian police, as well as experts in human rights, good governance, the rukle of law and democracy building–all of whom come together in common endeavour in Afghanistan.
The biggest threat to rebuilding is continued violence and threats from the Taliban and al-Quaeda whose principle mission is to disrupt and prohibit Afghan men, women and children from going about their daily lives. Their tactics are terrorism, not talks aimed at establishing a truce.
Rebuilding a shattered Afghanistan is a slow and complex process in a country taht is emerging from more than two decades of human rights abuses, terror, conflict, drought and poverty. We are making progress–unthinkable only a few years ago–which is a testament to the will and fortitude of theAfghan people, as well as the commitment and engatement of the international community.
For example, a new Afghan constitution has restored the rule of law and respect for the human rights of every Afghan citizen, including those of women and children. Because of our efforts, the Afghan people now vote, women and girls have rights and children are going to school.
Clearly, it is a LIBERATION taking place here, and not an OCCUPATION by a hostile, imperialistic force.
Maryham Mahboob, editor of Zarnegaar, Toronto’s Afghan community newspaper, says Afghans everywhere are grateful for the world’s help in removing the Taliban. Now, she says, they need help to restore peace and rebuild their country.
“You cannot believe it how much they are happy,” she says. “Finally, the countries of the world are watching them and helping them.”
During the Taliban years, Afghan-Canadians were too scared to go back to their country, Mahboob says. “Now it is very easy,” she says, “we are finally going back.”
The excitement in her voice is tangible as she talks about the several trips she has made to her homeland since the fall of the Taliban five years ago. She has returned to visit family in Kabul, for conferences and to work on a women’s magazine.
Mahboob’s husband recently spent eight months in Afghanistan building a new home. “Why shouldn’t we be happy?,” she asked.
Mahboob is a strong supporter of the International Security Assistance Force, the UN-sanctioned force in Afghanistan that includes Canadian troops. “It’s the biggest help since one century,” she says. “The best chance for people in Afghanistan is the Canadian army.”
The Canadian army, she says, is providing Afghan people with a chance to rebuild their lives and their country.
Mahboob says most Afghans, both at home and abroad, are happy that NATO forces are in Afghanistan. “Someone is there to make peace,” she says, “to make a good life for people who have been miserable for 25 years.”
Adeena Niazi, executive director of the Toronto-based Afghan Women’s Association, agrees. She supports the presence of multinational troops in Afghanistan, though she says this is the first time in Afghan history that the Afghan people want a foreign army on their territory. She says people recognize that coalition forces are not there for destruction, but for safety and security.
“Thats my opinion & I’m sticking to it.
Cheers.” By Irene on 12.29.07 5:52 pm
Irene, as with your statement about Paul Martin yesterday, you acknowledged that your recall wasn’t functioning as clearly as it should, and I respect you for changing your opinion when presented with the evidence.
Just be careful about making more dogmatic statements on subjective opinions.
You have a right to an opinion, as we all do, but I would say that, “Here is my opinion, based on my present perspective, but you can engage with me, dialogue with me, and I am open to receiving more light on the topic.”
Let’s not stick to an opinion even if it turns out to be wrong.
All the best, Irene!
See The Capital News Online, a publication of Carleton University’s School of Journalism.
http://www.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/20102006/n2.shtml
The picture alone says a lot.
Mushy and his Pakistani government walks a fine line between US backed(billions )regional policeman and diverse Islamic agendas within Pakistan and beyond.
Mushy represents a puppet regime backed by the US to march to their agenda and Bhutto and her party represented a return to independant thought and self determination by the people of Pakistan.
Her crime was refusing to commit to the US agenda and wanting to fight terrorism on her terms in real measurable initiatives and not rhetoric while the Taliban strikes out at our soldiers from bases in the mountains of Pakistan.
If we follow the money we can see the reality of what is transpiring in the fight for control of a nuclear power.
CB, my definition of freedom has nothing to do with imposing western capitalism on the Afghan people. It has to do with the self-determination and self-government of the people of Afghanistan themselves.
The important thing is that they have the freedom to make those kind of choices democratically. This, as you know, was not possible under the Taliban, but now it is possible.
With self-determination and self-government, every nation will be culturally and linguistically unique and distinct, and yet share universal values such as the equal value of every human life within their nation.
Because this is my worldview, I fully supported the recognizing of the Quebecois, for example, as a distinct nation within the nation-state of Canada. They are culturally and linguistically unique, even though they share democratic values with all of the other people groups in the nation-state of Canada.
I support self-determination for the Afghans in Afghanistan, for the Quebecois in Quebec, for the Inuit in Nunavut and Nunavik, and for the First Nations throughout Canada.
What is your stand on this type of freedom?
By Emilie on 12.29.07 1:42 am
And you my dear, are salivating because of the events. So you can, yet again, lay the blame on the USA. I’m starting to see a pattern here. The “libs” don’t really want any stability in the region – can there be some hidden agenda here?
By Catherine on 12.29.07 8:28 am
Hitting close to the truth, am I? The PMO had you get right now it now with the ad hominem bombast.
Here is the link to a very interesting truth about the USA.
From hyperpower to new world disorder
http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/289353
Now who else thinks that Steve and Dubya are too close for comfort?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_zolf/20060403.html
http://www.harperindex.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=0076
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2019933520070820
http://www.evilscientist.ca/article.php?story=20070927114601298
http://tinyurl.com/2j54n8
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/may2006/harp-m27.shtml
Catherine et al, you can look up the rest yourselves.
Here’s a quote: If Harper and his Conservatives feel under siege, it is because they are aware that there is only a narrow constituency for their agenda of militarism, close ties to the Bush administration, tax cuts for the rich, and dismantling of public and social services. Haunted by the specter of mass opposition, they instinctively turn to authoritarian methods of rule, using the powers of the executive to bypass parliament on issues such as Afghanistan, the Kyoto Accord and the gun registry, and seeking to bully and muzzle even the corporate media. -end quote
I WANT MY CANADA BACK!!!!
Guess ya all missed this jewel.
Wow
Paul Wells | December 24, 2007 | 10:54:53 | Permalink
paul.wells@macleans.rogers.com
Stephen Harper tells La Presse he wants to see the notion of a Quebec (sorry, Quebecois) nation in the constitution. “Step by step, when the ground is fertile.” In the same round of pre-Christmas interviews, he told Le Devoir precisely how he’d like to see a national referendum on Senate abolition work.
Hang onto your hats.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20071224/CPACTUALITES/71223155/6730/CPACTUALITES
Just wtf does Steve think he is?
They entered the European war with a declaration of war on Germany AFTER HITLER HAD DECLARED WAR ON THE USA.
By Herb on 12.29.07 4:26 pm
I’ll take you word for it, but it makes no difference to my argument, that is that the US. entered WWII when it was in their best interest.
But getting back to Mr. Bush’s coattails and Mr. Harper. When it come to Canadian policy to the US., boarder passes etc., Mr. Harper has had a chequered history; sold out lumber but opposed boarder passes.
But the big concern is Mr. Harper’s foreign policy outside of North America. That’s where he appears to be firmly hanging onto Mr. Bush. Kyoto, Iraq, Afghanistan, PMSH, whether he believes it or whether he can’t think for himself, seems to be Mr. Bush’s parrot. And remember the Iraq discussion, the only reason I remember Mr. Harper giving when opposing Jean Cretien’s discission was that “we should be supporting our allies.”
I don’t believe for a minute that Canadians will be attacked by terrorism ever other than by words suggesting otherwise.
Thats my opinion & I’m sticking to it.
Cheers
By Irene on 12.29.07 5:52 pm
Yup, and Bill Clinton said the same thing, when evidence was pointing that there would be a terrorist act on USA. He was too busy not having sex with that woman.
Speaking of terror Ike, have you been to a U.S. mall or school lately?
Please Advise.
Sincerely,
MB
By MB on 12.29.07 3:16 pm
And MB, speaking of terror, have you been to north york lately?
Garth, Mr. Harper is as likely to get his talking points from G.W. as Mr. Dion is to get his from Nicolas Sarkozy.
Leasa
By Leasa on 12.29.07 8:44 am
Hello darling people of the land of Garth! It appears my ‘tongue in cheek’ humour, err, sarcasm has yet once again escaped the masses of this fine Garth Land. Please read my quote again. Now…think…what was I saying? LOL
I spent some time yesterday with a friend who is a recent landed immigrant (refugee) from Pakistan. He was an average Joe in his home country.
I did not know until our ‘talk’ that killing members of the Bhutto family was so frequent, since the ’70’s in fact. Not only her father, but they also killed two brothers. According to my friend, “all those at the top, all those who control the money, are corrupt”. He mourns her death, but was also not surprised in the least. He said he expected her death. He said a lot of other things, but I will not risk identifying my friend other than to tell you that he feels Canada IS paradise and he is so happy to be here.
I was also very busy yesterday so I didn’t see too much in the area of news. This morning I learned that Bhutto’s son in now in consideration for the new leader of her party and will be ‘guided’ by a special panel which includes his father, Ms. Bhutto’s husband. Interesting. You’d think with the family’s history of being assassinated the last thing you’d want is for your son to be the new target.
Anyway, lots to do here, time to get the show on the road.
All the best…Leasa
“This was an abhorrent act of terror.” This is what you would call diplomatic obfuscation?
This will be as close to the truth as you can get until the propaganda has been discredited by events.
By Herb on 12.29.07 10:25 am
And Herbie, if you are reflecting “liberal” values, then, I would suggest that people should run as fast they can from them. Herbie, you would just love to “re-educate” those that have differing points of view. It such as shame that you are a very angry, hateful old man.
Catherine,
I love reading in the morning that the duty neo-Republican troll considers me to be “a very angry, hateful old man.” It’s the smell of having cut close to the bone.
By Ike on 12.30.07 12:59 am
Dear Ike,
I was simply refuting your assertion that the World War II defenders of democracy who helped to obliterate Nazi and Fascist governments were NOT the same as the imperialists who UNILATERALLY ATTACKED Afghanistan and Iraq.
As you so eloquently pointed out Ike, IMPERIALIST MONEY can buy a lot of democratic elements, grrrrreat press, and domestically oppressed people’s support for foreign occupation.
Who wants to see a SUGAR DADDY dissapear???
Not the people of Afghanistan and Iraq I’ll tell ya. And for very good reason. But Sugar Daddies don’t live forever.
If not DRIVEN by the people the democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq is unsustainable.
When you help people with MORE than the help they need they become dependent. And that’s what the imperialists want…
DEPENDENCE!
And the sad thing is that they have tons of people like you cheering for them Ike.
All the best my friend.
Sincerely,
MB
P.S. Catherine (12.30.07 7:54 am), you just proved my point with your Jane & Finch reference…
Let’s get our own house in order!
Come on Harpie, Catch Up!
http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/289353
I am troubled by Benazir’s 19-year old son assuming the “leadership” of the Pakistan People’s Party. To me, that indicates that the PPP indeed is the Bhutto “family firm”, rather than an effective political and democratic force in Pakistan.
Having his father act as the official “Grey Eminence” (Co-Chair) just makes matters worse – there is no way “Mr. Ten Percent” Zardari could stand for election as PM himself. Note how he was kept out of the picture in the post-assassination period.
If anyone can see a way out of chaos in Pakistan, let me know.
Interesting how Leasa, when caught making a statement full of errors it’s suddenly tongue in cheek – humour – uh huh.
Catherine – are you for real?
Oh, Catherine – about saying Harper is little Bush getting tiresome – perhaps if Harper came up with his own slogans, ideas and policies – people might think differently – Harper himself wears this one.
Pakistan is the most frightening place on earth right now (nuclear capabilities) and Catherine worries about Clinton or something stupid like that? …sigh…
As we approach the New Year, I implore all Con supporting bloggers to delete the following words from their posts.
Angry,Hateful, Bitter, Resentful. The English language has many beautiful words that can be used to express feelings without such harsh and untruthful phrases.
I refer to obvious Con supporters (you know who you are) as I did find these
words in other posts.
Wishing each and everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Canadian soldier killed by IED
Ike,
You are an idealist rather than a realist. It appears that you believe what you want the situation to be rather than what is actually the case.
There are areas of Afghanistan in which things may be better than they were before, although I am not sure where. The safe areas tend to be where the French and German troops are stationed and to a lesser extent the Americans. The situation in Kabul has been deteriorating and this has been the most violent year overall in Afganistan since the war started.
There are probably many Afghans who support the imperial presence just as there may be many more who oppose it. Ideally a free election would be able to determine the proportion that accepted each position.
Elections in Afghanistan are far different from elections here. For example, intimidation is permitted. Only certain areas of the country are secure enough to hold a vote. In some areas supporters of certain factions are permitted to escort individuals into the poll to make sure they vote for their candidate. War Loads, whose names are well known to voters and can control communications, have the advantage over other candidates.
Public opinion polls are biased by people’s fear and distrust. The people carrying them out were only able to operate in limited, more secure, areas. The results of the poll are good propaganda tools for those who support imperial policies but they do little to actually get at the reality of the situation.
If we had “liberated” the people of Afganistan as you claim, why do we have to remain? The fact is that overall the area is no more “secure” than it was prior to our deployment and no one can really estimate when or if adequate security can be achieved in the future.
Some imperialists, who idealize their own systems, go into other countries not just for economic reasons but to force others to adopt their values.
From what you have said, it appears that when you use idealistic terms like “freedom” or “democracy” without having a clear idea of what those terms means in the real world. To be useful they need to be defined in the social context in which they are applied or they are meaningless abstractions.
This is the problem with the “spin” we get from politicians. They never define their terms.
Hang onto your hats.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20071224/CPACTUALITES/71223155/6730/CPACTUALITES
Just wtf does Steve think he is?
By Emilie on 12.30.07 3:47 am
Thanks for posting the above Emilie. Just too tired to digest and translate it today, but shall reread it tomorrow am.
As I and others have been saying, Stevie is, step by step, trying to desseminate (sp?) all of Canada’s social programs and redesign Canada in the image of the US.
We have to wake up the ‘uninvolved’ and ‘uninformed’ Canadians about this government’s agenda.
Peace on Earth. Good will to All!
There is a poignant thought, eh?
Shoot – we were invited to dinner NY’s eve and I was asked to make a particular dessert that I had made for DH’s 50th. Spent 3 hours preparing it and now I hear that diner will likely be cancelled due to weather. As we don’t drink and drive and can’t reserve a taxi, a couple were to pick us up and drive us home. Ah well, we live in Canada and should expect this. Just makes me upset that with all the weather technology we supposedly have today, the forecasters can get it so wrong. Rant over.
Here is the difference this Canadian, and I believe most Canadians, see between Harper’s minions (aka Ministers), and real leadership…HONESTY, ACCOUNTABILITY, and TRUTH!
Hillier’s popularity backfires on Tories
Being trapped in a box of their own making should make politicians wary of building more. Not a chance. It’s just too appealing to be able to shift responsibility from accountable ministers to theoretically anonymous deputies when things go wrong.
“If not DRIVEN by the people the democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq is unsustainable.” –MB.
My point exactly. Our role absolutely has to be a “coming alongside” role, not a doing for others what they can and should do for themselves. It is encourage that more and more Afghans are being trained to provide for their own country’s security in the longterm.
People don’t need a “handout.” They need a “handup.”
I think we are fully agreed on that.
This is more to the point than any of the North American msm — gives a different view.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=505152&in_page_id=1811
Stephen Harper deserves respect
National Post
Published: Tuesday, December 04, 2007
You have to wonder if Canadians are able to recognize a good thing when they see it. According to a nine-country poll conducted by Angus Reid Strategies for Maclean’s, that “good thing” might just be Stephen Harper. Mr. Harper and German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, top the poll as the most admired heads of government. Mr. Harper is on top with 5.9 points, Ms. Merkel second with 5.7 points and, not surprisingly, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is at the bottom of the list with 3.3 points.
I cannot remember in my lifetime (and I have lived under 10 different PMs) any of our previous leaders getting such positive international recognition. Nor can I remember a prime minister accomplishing as much as Stephen Harper has in such a short time. Interestingly then that Harper’s lowest score came from, that’s right, Canadians.
It appears most of the world disagrees with Garth…now why is that a surprise? LOL…..
Ms. Bhutto interview with David Frost in which she states Bin Laden was murdered.Mr. Frost never did follow up on the statement.http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2007/12/bbc-censored-benazir-bhuttos-reports.html
Then BBC censored that part of the interview.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7070000/newsid_7075800/7075843.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6&ms_javascript=true&nol_storyid=7075843&bbcws=2#
Maybe she knew too much.
Shoot – we were invited to dinner NY’s eve and I was asked to make a particular dessert that I had made for DH’s 50th. Spent 3 hours preparing it and now I hear that diner will likely be cancelled due to weather. As we don’t drink and drive and can’t reserve a taxi, a couple were to pick us up and drive us home. Ah well, we live in Canada and should expect this. Just makes me upset that with all the weather technology we supposedly have today, the forecasters can get it so wrong. Rant over.
By kpn on 12.30.07 2:55 pm
In light of what is going on in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Darfur and in so many countries of the world, I really have to apologize for being upset about a lousy NY’s eve dinner. I’m ashamed of myself. Please forgive me for my pettiness.
If anyone can see a way out of chaos in Pakistan, let me know.
By Herb on 12.30.07 1:05 pm
Peace on Earth. Good will to All!
There is a poignant thought, eh?
By Bill-Muskoka on 12.30.07 2:33 pm
Good day to you, and all, gentlebloggers.
Nice, comforting thoughts but it ain’t never gonna happen here — not now, not ever.
Best thing a person can do is to concentrate and focus on himself, become a better individual and then help others become better in their own way.
Throughout one’s short life cycle, a person can change and reinvent himself many times over, but he can never, ever change the world. He is accountable only to himself — no one else.
Let the world be involved with the stuff of the world.
John: It really only matters what Canadians think of the current P.M. because they are the voters, the ones who suffer his policies and see the man on a daily basis.
I think the P.M. would prefer that Canadians think more of him than foreigners.
Only the national post would cite a poll that had to go outside the country to put the P.M. in a good light ( if you can call 5.7% good)
John G,
where have you been? We kicked that poll around four days ago. Why, you’ll even find three or four links to it, if you would care to read the published poll minus the unwarranted CPC spin.
If you are going to troll, please do so without embarrassing yourself or your party.
Garth, Mr. Harper is as likely to get his talking points from G.W. as Mr. Dion is to get his from Nicolas Sarkozy.
Interesting how Leasa, when caught making a statement full of errors it’s suddenly tongue in cheek – humour – uh huh.
By slg on 12.30.07 1:19 pm
Good evening SLG…You are just not getting it. LOL Here is my statement again:
Garth, Mr. Harper is as likely to get his talking points from G.W. as Mr. Dion is to get his from Nicolas Sarkozy.
~SLG, dear, I will explain what I thought was the obvious. How likely is Mr. Dion to get his ‘talking points’ from Mr. Sarkosy? You will answer: not likely, correct? So therefore; my statement says that Mr. Harper is ‘not likely’ to get his talking points from Mr. Bush. Okay…read what I just wrote…read the statement I made again. Flash!!! Get it? Now answer this:
In her statement did Leasa say that Mr. Dion gets his talking points from Mr. Sarkozy?
In that statement did Leasa say it was likely or unlikely that Mr. Dion gets his talking points from Mr. Sarkozy?
Was Leasa trying to say in a tongue n cheek way that Mr. Harper does not get his talking points from President Bush?
If you require further assistance, please feel free to ask.
L
By kpn on 12.30.07 6:05 pm
Oh KPN! You do not have to compare what goes on in your ‘real’ world with what goes on in the global world! I’d be disappointed in having put forth all that work also in making a desert to be proud of and having the plans fall through. Can I make one small suggestion? Perhaps there are people in your immediate area that are also in the same boat? Why not organize a neighbourhood pot luck? A few calls and your desert will be admired and enjoyed. That’s what I’d do anyway.
Cheers! Leasa
Not good news, especially for people on fixed incomes.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004091088_foodpriceoutlook250.html
“Our role absolutely has to be a “coming alongside” role, not a doing for others what they can and should do for themselves. It is encourage that more and more Afghans are being trained to provide for their own country’s security in the longterm.
People don’t need a “handout.” They need a “handup.”
I think we are fully agreed on that.”
By Ike on 12.30.07 4:13 pm
Dear Ike,
Yes, we are agreed on the “handup” philosophy, it’s just the implementation that we disagree on.
I find ALL people LEARN BEST by DOING!
Therefore, after our current 2009 commitment, Afghanis and Iraqis should be DOING the soldiering, with their lives on the line on a minute to minute basis, for THEIR democracy with tactical and training support from our commanding officers ONLY.
All our front-line ‘attacking’ soldiers should come home in 2009 but the tactical, training and peacekeeping support should remain until Afghanis and Iraqis can reasonably fend for themselves.
Afghanis and Iraqis should be fighting with THEIR lives for Their land and their democracy NOW!
I’ve seen students milk the system by staying in school as long as they can when somebody or some program is in place that allows them to just lolligag along.
Who does the most learns the most.
Sincerely,
MB
Here is a link explaining how a real man gets his country back. Putin and or Chavez will lend our native community in Canada the money to get out from under the hobnailed boot of our oligarchy(see Russian definition, an 8 letter pluralisation beginning with Z). http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18975.htm
In any case, enjoy your last New Year’s in power. — Garth
Care to make a small wager about that.
I think I already have a lot more on the line than you do. — Garth
Leasa:
How do you know that most of the bombs that kill our boys are made in China?
What was it that Peter McKay said was coming from Iran? Could some have been made in other countries where Al Qaeda are established?
KPN:
I printed out Pervez Dastoor’s piece to read later. I will also Google Pervez Dastoor.
Brian Dondo:
I read your link and I think this sounds like a pretty fair appraisal comparing it to remarks of other commentators.
Former diplomat, Akbar Ahmed said, on Brian Stewart’s program today, something to the effect that the only way to go forward in Pakistan now is to back the Pakistan army to keep order and to set up a temporary ruling body until some semblance of calm and accommodations of sort can occur. He said we could help by offering know-how in setting up elections and monitoring them (maybe under the U.N.?) He said Pakistanis love Canada. He also told us how what happens in Pakistan will affect us if the whole Muslim world is brought into this situation. Maybe this program is repeated on the CBC’s web site.
It is so important for Canada to be seen and to be an honest broker in the world.
CB Innes:
I agree with KPN. You do write very clear , astute analyses of political questions. Thank you.
New footage of Ms. Bhutto’s killing — a number of shots can be heard very clearly before the blast.
If the video is made public in Pakistan, things will turn very ugly and very quickly.
http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&videoSourceID=1298656&flashURL=
It appears most of the world disagrees with Garth…now why is that a surprise? LOL…..
By John G on 12.30.07 5:33 pm
You mean like the guy who beats his wife and kids is a respected member of the community and would get 5.9 in a poll?
Leasa, we do get it—you don’t.
Since it’s obvious Harper DOES get his scripts from Bush, in effect you are saying that Dion gets his from Sarkozy, if both are equally probable.
This is not the first place we have seen the use of two names/words in one sentence in order to create a psychological, subconscious link in voters’ minds (“corrupt” and “Liberal” comes to mind, as does “Martin” and “child pornography”). We had this discussion earlier in the month, I believe.
At any rate, I have seen the Dion/Sarkozy attempt elsewhere lately, and it is clearly an attempt to divert from the Harper/Bush love affair, and also to plant some desperate seeds of doubt over Dion’s loyalty to Canada since he holds…GASP!!!!… French citizenship as well.
Garth isn’t waiting for the Government to be defeated as he is already hitting the campaign trial with this particular blog.
Dion’s loyalty to Canada since he holds…GASP!!!!… French citizenship as well. By Maggie.
The fact is that no PM of Canada should hold dual citizenship. Our GG set the president when she renounced her French citizenship when she took office. Dion should do the same if he really aspires to be PM.
Why shouldn’t the Conservatives pull a Liberal tactic. After all the Liberals have been trying to tie Harper and Bush together ever since Harper became Conservative leader. What I find fascinating is what the hell is the Liberals going to do when Bush leaves office. Maybe that explains why the Liberals are so hot to trot to have an election in 2008. Well Garth bring it on and sooner the better.
Btw Maggie, you forget that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
By Pat. G. on 12.30.07 8:55 pm
Good morning Pat, You asked; how do I know that the bombs in Afghanistan are made in China. A few months ago most of our MSM reported this fact. If you Google ‘Afghan bombs made in China’ you can even find one site that shows a picture of one of the Chinese made bombs found in Afghanistan. It’s a well known fact that China is a close ally and friend of Pakistan and Iran. However, our own government and other governments are ‘reluctant’ to take China to task for this. Here’s one article that talks of this:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070912/weapons_china_070912/20070912?hub=TopStories
In my opinion only: I’ve always said that China is the country to watch and the country we should fear. They like to ship in the crap, buy very little from others, enjoy ‘western money’, but is no friend of countries of Western Culture.
Anyway, I hope that explains where I get my ideals from. Today, I am cooking a feast for the ones I love. This morning has me making homemade cherry cheese cakes (one for my staff)…then slow roast ham, glazed pineapple, homemade scallop potatoes, Belgian Endive in old white cheddar cheese sauce, candied yams, Caesar salad (homemade)….so, I’ll be a busy lady today.
Take care all, bring in the New Year safely…I look forward to continuing the great debate in 2008!
Leasa
P.S. My new year resolution is to stop forgetting my reusable bags when shopping!
Let the world be involved with the stuff of the world.
By Charles Oxley on 12.30.07 6:19 pm
Charles, we, as individuals, are the world. When we change ourselves, others see the benefits, and choose to change also. As Pogo said so wisely We has found the enemy and they is us!
Thus, if each of us do our personal best, it will not go unnoticed, and therefore, we are effectively changing the world. The problem is how agonizingly slow the process is!
May the New Year bring you, and all, a better you, and a better me! Then we will have a better ‘We’!
That’s what I’d do anyway.
Cheers! Leasa
so, I’ll be a busy lady today.
by Leasa on 12.31.07 8:32 am
Happy New Year to “The Paragon of Virtue”
Take some time out to get a life away from the ‘puter.
P.S. My new year resolution is to stop forgetting my reusable bags when shopping!
By Leasa on 12.31.07 8:32 am
LOL I may make that mine also! We even put them in the car, and still forget them at the store.
Have a Happy New Year!
I agree that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, and don’t deny that the Liberals have done it themselves(guns in the streets ads). No matter who does it, it smacks of desperation.
However, it’s not contrived to link Harper to Bush; it’s as plain as the nose on your face, as are the CPC’s neo con policies.
What I am saying is Dion is not taking marching orders from Sarko, and the lame and transparent attempts to create something out of nothing are pathetic.
As for the citizenship, I wouldn’t expect anyone, in this day and age, in a democratic country, to give up their citizenship. This isn’t the 15th century where we make alliances and wars with other countries based on arranged marriages and the whim of the king. Where would you end it, by making everyone in public office hold only Canadian citizenship? Or just those in foreign affairs? Care to look into how many MPs hold dual citizenship right now?
Happy New Year to all, Garth keep up the good work, and good luck in the campaign. stay on the high road.
“Charles, we, as individuals, are the world. When we change ourselves, others see the benefits, and choose to change also. As Pogo said so wisely We has found the enemy and they is us!” –Bill Muskoka.
How true, Bill, how true!
Happy New Year to all!
Care to look into how many MPs hold dual citizenship right now?
By maggie on 12.31.07 9:47 am
Hi Mags…2008!!! Are you excited? I am just so happy to see the end of 2007.
Anyway…at one time we were all citizens of Britain and ALL of our parliamentarians were from Britain. Take a look at who our Head of State is. Not so long ago, you HAD to be a subject of Her Royal Majesty to even consider politics in Canada. Last I heard, we, even today have a Queen. I do not recall, however, singing to the King of France when I was in grade school, but we sure sang our hearts out to the Queen of England. To this day, we still have ties to England. So, an MP having a dual citizenship to England is a moot point in Canada.
Before GG Jean wisely gave up her French citizenship, did you know that France actually ‘ruled’ on it? ‘THEY decided that she could keep her French citizenship since they deemed her new job as a ‘figure head’ position only. Now, that brings me back to a question I have been asking for a year and have yet to be answered. France has an active law that no citizen can keep their citizenship to France and take a job working for a foreign government. What was the ruling on Mr. Dion’s case…why did they let him keep it all these years? What was the deal?
Sorry for asking such a tough question so early in this new year…but you asked…
There may be a very plausible answer to this question, but so far, I can’t find one.
Leasa
Leasa, you’ve lured me into dialogue again. What a sucker I am! BTW, I think Mags are some kind of wheels; I’m Maggie.
What I asked was how many MPs hold dual citizenship right now? A quick search gave me this information:
Omar Alghabra (Ontario Liberal), with Syria.
Raymond Chan (British Columbia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
Libby Davies (British Columbia NDP), with the United Kingdom.
Jim Karygiannis (Ontario Liberal), with Greece.
Wajid Khan (Ontario Conservative), with Pakistan.
Maka Kotto (Quebec Bloc Québécois), with France.
Pablo Rodriguez (Quebec Liberal), with Argentina.
Michael Savage (Nova Scotia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
Mario Silva (Ontario Liberal), with Portugal.
Lui Temelkovski (Ontario Liberal), with Macedonia.
Myron Thompson (Alberta Conservative), with the United States.
What to do, what to do…
Not all dual with merry old England, although the topic of keeping our ties to her are for another day, perhaps.
If you find out that there’s a secret deal between Dion and France, let us know, with links, would you?
Thanks.
I recall after 9-11 waiting for a response from Cretien but for days he said nothing. Thankfully John Manley took the lead and offered condolences.
By Duane W on 12.28.07 10:32 am
Someone was apparently not watching the news… but I was, and I saw and heard PMJC get out of his office and speak on camera (even though Parliament wasn’t even in session) the same day. Get your facts straight.