There are many reasons MPs would not want an election, I suppose. Obviously it’s a form of war, in which mortal blows can be landed. Campaigns these days are increasingly down and dirty and laden with smears. Who in their right mind would want to go through one?
Then, there’s defeat. It can come regardless of whether you’re God’s gift to Parliament, or a roustabout like me. Canada, to its disfavour, has evolved a presidential style of government. People vote for leaders, not MPs, and yet it’s the name of an MP on the ballot.
So, we have to assess not only if we’ve done our jobs worthy of re-election, but if our leaders and parties are likely to gain support. These days I can find little appetite among my colleagues – from all sides of the House of Commons – for a showdown. Sure, angry rhetoric and smoky media appearances, but virtually no fire.
Now a new poll shows Canadians, at least four out of five, don’t care for a vote this year either. Almost 60% say instead, an election should happen in 2009. The reason: “The public sees no big issue that today’s Parliament stands in the way of solving, and no big idea that would require a reconstituted Parliament to put into place,” said Harris-Decima president Bruce Anderson.
This is a wake-up call for everyone now sitting in Parliament. After all, it’s not as if there’s a paucity of issues. We’re fighting a costly overseas war, which has lasted for years and stolen 78 of our souls. We recently relieved two million investors of twenty billion dollars. We have a currency doing serious damage and 300,000 newly unemployed. The economy’s taking a dive. Nuclear safety. Taliban prisoners. No child care spaces. GST versus income tax. Climate change.
So how is it that four of five people see ‘no big issues’ and believe leaders and parties lack any ‘big idea’?
Because we politicians have failed. What other excuse could there be? We’re not leaders when we lack followers, and right now most of our constituents are focused on their own lives, homes and families. Understandable. But it also defines a country without passion at the moment, lacking in commonality.
Shortly after losing my mind again, becoming an MP for the second time, I held a Town Hall meeting in the Oakville area of my riding. The place, a restaurant dining room on the Dundas Highway, was packed. An hour into it the following happened. I first wrote about it in a pre-budget report to Jim Flaherty in the winter of 2006.
A middle-aged guy in a sweatshirt sitting against the back wall started talking about environmental projects, and his desire to have a windmill and the need for a big vision project that would challenge us all. Then:
I was born in 1951, he said. And I remember Kennedy, who talked about the new frontier, about dreaming of things that are not yet, and asking why not. And as a result the engineering schools filled up and the men and women at CalTech and Avro ended up helping to put men on the moon. We had something to believe in that was bigger than everyone, until we actually achieved it.
Maybe now, he said, is the time to have another vision like that. Maybe it’s finding a way to be energy independent in ten years, or paying off our national debt or accomplishing something wonderful for the environment. We need it now. A big vision.
A small pause. Then a woman spoke up, who twenty minutes earlier had been moaning about having to pay tax on her stock portfolio. He’s right, she said. We elected you for change. You are about change. I was in the States when the news of the election came through and that’s what the headline said – Canada votes for change.
We do not want bandaid solutions, she said, tweaking the GST or trimming income tax. It’s time for you to step up to the plate and give us that change.
The sweatshirt guy took it up again, stronger now. We need you to look twenty years down the road, way past these tax changes. That’s what the people want, man, they want to kick ass.
The room was alive now. Calls of encouragement were coming from all corners. Take the step, and we will be behind you, I heard. We are willing to take the tax hit now, and we will be with you. Just give us honesty and we will give you support. And, again – that is why we voted for you. We voted for change.
Twenty-four months later, the people still wait. Change is for bold men. So far, we’re just men.
263 comments ↓
If I had been at that meeting, my comment would be that we need a leader with vision. And that is my challenge to the Liberals today: stop the country looking at its feet, make it look to the horizon and towards the future.
I am sick and tired of the small minded, petty people currently calling themselves Canada’s new government.
Well, Garth, I think Dion HAS that vision for Canada; to get us out in front with investment in green technology in order to lead the world and help developing nations AND help the planet. He is an honest man who truly wants what is best for Canada and Canadians.
It is up to the Liberal Party to shake Canadians out of their apathy and show the damage Harper has done, and will continue to do. It is irresponsible to continue to allow the destruction of our democracy under Harper.
If I may use some space here to repeat a post by “brain” from a few days ago, I suggest you distribute this to all Liberal strategists. It is sound advice.
Here it is:
Please tell me you’re the Liberal’s Chief strategist……please
By John G on 01.21.08 2:35 pm
Being a strong Con, that’s the last thing you would want. Its funny what people will project.
If I had my way… Garth, are you listening? If I had my way, I’d have every Liberal wearing a read sweater with a white maple leaf on it and a green lining suggesting a united Liberal party with every MP there in question period in the Commons for one day to send a message that this Liberal government is unified and ready to lead with the best interests of all Canadians.
I would have the failings of every cabinet position to script, every broken Harper promise, every causal effect to bad policy explained in quick soundbites, and amp up the election furor by telling Canadians what is at stake in every respect within every candidate running for federal office.
I would have every MP on the same page with strategy, platform and future policy, including the foreign policy of pulling the majority of troops from Nato and leaving the ones behind in roles of peace keeping, a complete 180 from military ops. I would stress the need for diplomacy in world affairs, denouncing the foreign policies of GWB and Cheney, knowing that they are gone in a year and their own nation doesn’t like them any more. I would emphasize at every turn, our respect for a global economy, but at the same time encourage Canadians to be protective of their economic sovereignty and economic sectors where vulnerable to moderate consumer pricing where needed in “ESSENTIAL SERVICES”.
I would expose Harpers direct involvement with the NCC and make it a direct political issue as clearly, Harper is the most powerful U.S. corporate lobbyist this nation has ever known as an elected official, especially in his position of government… and he’s not alone.
Clearly, I would attack the Conservative record of governance, outline the clear direction the Liberal party would take from the New Con part as well as the old Liberal party in some respects (keep the best and scrap the rest) and outline precisely the reasons why.
When it comes to media, I would have it in script, simple, short and not so sweet, quick, multiple point form Con failures for media when it looks for soundbites such as…
Failed democracy and broken promises.
- Fortier’s unelected appointment and failure to run as an MP.
- Linda Keen’s late night firing and the role a trade and health minister is supposed to play.
- The Cons want to privatize the rest of Canada’s federal crown corps, namely AECL.
- A watered down accountability act, specifically relating to elected lobbyist’s in government.
- appointing a military lobbyist as minister of defense.
- muzzling Conservative MP’s.
- Con pro media concentration through the CRTC for the benefit of Can West media.
- Harpers legal battle to reverse a law that forced transparency in listing donations by organizations to political parties. Harper argued such transparency would incite discrimination against church groups, with a motive to hide National Citizen Coalition campaign contributions to his bid for the Conservative leadership as well as the Conservative party itself.
- Con slashed government revenue & dramatically raised spending in light of a U.S. recession, possible Canadian and world recession and rising loonie, i.e. bad policy.
- an abolished wheatboard prairie farmers don’t want.
- foreign takeovers of Can corps by U.S. corps through deregulation in the wake of broken promises to protect income trusts and other economic sectors.
- privatization of the CBC as a Conservative agenda.
- Con privatization of healthcare, on the table with the NCC of which Harper is on record as supporting throughout his life both private and public.
- Harper’s wanting to invade Iraq.
- Harpers supporting Israel’s invasion of Lebanon to seucure Can West media interests.
- Cons supporting war criminal policy within the U.S. government, namely Bush and Cheney, expressing the need for americans to consider empeachment, as well as a war tribunal for war crimes by the U.N., if not by their own future U.S. government.
- Conservaitves completely ignoring the wild pacific salmon crisis in BC.
- Cons ignoring environmental damage from the tarsands.
- Cons ignoring the need for energy sustainability and efficiency in manufacturing and products in the wake of a recession and factory retooling. (Ontario’s industry clearly needs grants to accomplish target goals for clean energy and manufactured products through direct subsidy)
- Cons cuts to social programs in the wake of a possible Canadian recession when Canadians need it most.
- a complete lack of perspective on daycare, on first nations, on the rule of law…
- A lost billion dollars in the softwood lumber dispute, of which over $350 million went directly into the hands of the Republican party! Its true!!! (Emersons 7 directorships… we can expect a few more from that one)
- failed stances in BALI with world environmental concerns on global warming.
- failed foreign policy with human rights in area’s of torture and direct third world contributions.
- failed opportunities to increase trade with other continents and nations, most specifically Africa and South America.
I could go on, John. This is just the shortlist! I’d have every Lib Candidate memorize the “long list” for media specifically. As mentioned, the Conservatives are failing on EVERY SINGLE FILE. Honestly, I would have a field day as a campaign manager, noting the media control of hype and spin, especially in foreign affairs, is the riskiest of all.. and I would play it, not with Dion, but with Dions choice for minister of foreign affairs and not hesitate the condemnation of an illegal Iraq war, along with war threats to Iran noting reasons why. I would encourage Dion to make his choices public now as to who he would have in positions of cabinet regardless of candidate encumbancy.
And the one thing, the one theme that I would embrace through it all, the campaign slogan? Iggy’s line. This Harper government “didn’t get it done.”
Bigger government, smaller government… good governments govern. Bad governments allow corporations to do whatever the hell they want and I’ll I’ve seen from the Cons is just that, with a wide open door to U.S. corps for mergers and increased market share and in some sectors, its obscene.
http://trustbreaker.freehostia.com/
This link, although I don’t agree with all of its points, makes good points on its own, just to give Canadians an example of our Conservatives precious record of broken promises… but its not so much the broken promises that is at issue here, but the loss of opportunitys. The lost government revenue needed to prepare for a rainy day such as a Canadian recession most deeply felt in Ontario and Quebec… the lost opportunity to expand markets, the lost opportunity to improve our international repuation in relation to the environment and other nation’s failed foreign policy…
“Please tell me you’re the Liberal’s Chief strategist……please”… are you so sure, John? You might want to rethink that.
By brain on 01.21.08 5:40 pm
If the politicians didn’t spend every day either taking cheap shots at each other or having to constantly defend themselves maybe they would have time to discuss big ideas and bold visions.
Harper RULES !!!!
Garth DROOLS!!!!
By brain on 01.21.08 5:40 pm
By maggie on 01.24.08 10:57 pm
………………………………….
Kudos, maggie …. and bravo, brain … you have once again hit the nail on the head.
The message for Dion is to “lead, follow or get out of the way” so that somebody like Ignatieff or Rae can step up as leader of the Liberal party.
If the Liberal party capitulates by avoiding an election, that will spell d-e-f-e-a-t for Dion who proclaimed: “We must get back to power asap.” … immediately after he was elected leader. What has changed since then, and why is Dion now following Harper around like a monkey on a rope??
brain has enunciated all the faults with the Conservative government, so why can’t Dion convince Canadians that an election is urgently needed? Why aren’t Canadians listening to Dion and only giving him 10-15% support in polling over the last 2 years … and still rejecting an election asap???
Garth … rather than giving us feeble excuses why Liberals and Canadians don’t want an election, why can’t you be the catalyst, the leader to provide some bold ideas to rally Liberals around Dion and thus have him convince Canadians an election is urgently needed, or else the nation will suffer immensely under the heel of the Harper Conservative government.
In every generation, a brave man come forth and excites people with his bold ideas. You were expelled from the Conservative party, and your credibility is impeccable when it comes to attacking and exposing Harper … now add your bold ideas to the attack (like family income-splitting) and that should invigorate the Liberal party and Canadians … and lead us into the next election asap.
Stand up Garth .. brain has given you the roadmap to victory … go for it … udaman …!!!!
I reiterate the last post’s comments.. Stephen Harper is not serving Canadians best interests… Where is he by the way?
A new poll suggests only about one in five Canadians want a federal election this year.
Notice that the poll did NOT ask whether Canadians wanted to bring the present government down.
The Official Opposition could easily bring the government down. The NDP is already on side with this.
All that the Liberals would have to do would be to convince the Bloc to prop them up while forming a new government, much as they have propped up the CONS for some two years now.
Both the Bloc and the NDP want to bring the government down, but it is not as clear that they want a new election. Either of those parties could form a coalition with the Liberals, and we could both have a new government and avoid an election this year.
Make sense? All we need is the leader to lead us to a new government NOW?
Who will lead the charge?
We have nothing to fear but fear. Opposition parties, unite! How can we be opposed to this government so strongly and continue to sit on our hands?
Well then, Stephane Dion is certainly not your man either.
And given what we see how your Liberal colleague behave (Pablo Rodriguez and Mark Holland and, and, and), I don’t see any leadership coming from Stephane Dion on this front as well.
Gates: Troops could go to Pakistan
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/us.pakistan/index.html
By brain on 01.21.08 5:40 pm
Bravo Bravo!!!!
This is one of the most well-thought-out articles I have seen on this or any blog in some time.
The points you have made should cause even the Tory bloggers to pause & take stock of what their government has done over the last 2 years.
Again , thank you for your thoughts–you have done us all a fine service.
Mike
Good morning all, a well educated man told me a few short years ago that we have in fact reached our goals here on earth that we can now invent just about anything our minds can think of. I thought about what he said for some time and then understood he was correct. Look at how far we have come with the cell phone, (now with GPS) talking cars, hell they even have cars that can park themselves. All this is controled unfortunetly by what goverments (Big Business) is willing to let out for many reasons.
Election….we are on the path to set elections (it was passed, 2009 right) our PM knows it, Dion knows it Jack Layton will not amitt he knows it and well the Bloc know they can stir sepratist passion in heartbeat> So for people like Garth and in some very small part people like me must continue to stir the pot to bring the faults and shortcoming of PMSH and his sheep to the forefront of daily information pages. To-days working class has been beaten down so far and are stressed to limit and have little or no time for politics and trust NO goverment. So whats next, may I suggest to you Garth, look in the mirior, take a deep breath and think, summer is near and there is a beautiful hog in it’s winter home just waiting for the heat of the sun and the gentle feel of the pavement. You have chosen to be a politician and please continue to do your job to the best of your albilities and let Canadians judge in 2009 or sooner if they wish. Keep up the good work, thanks.
Jackpot! Gamblers hit it big at change machine [OR, automated random acts of kindness]
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/297230
•”I can’t interpret what was going on in their minds at the time, but you’d have to assume that if you put in a $20 bill and you expect four fives back and get four twenties, that your eyebrows might go up. I think if they had put a twenty in and got two fives back we would have heard about it pretty quickly.” That’s the kind of comment a Leasa, Catherine, Harry A$$, John L would make; heh heh heh …SURE
Sure as hell beats the Harper/Flaherty initiative; they’re claiming ‘change,’ when they give you one $4 bill and two $3 bills.
Give them Lip Plumpers and let them form a daisy-chain around Harper & Co.
Garth:
Those constituents you are quoting are wise people – if the true test of someone’s wisdom is how much they agree with you – I too have been looking desperately for a vision – something other than the petty venality of politics as it has become – and a revolt. Yes, this country needs a revolution to break this imperial prime ministership that we have developed – and it doesn’t need a lot of people – just you and less than 200 other MPs is all it will take. Take back control of the house – refuse to ratify any measures until the leaders of the parties are once again beholden to their caucuses. Like any revolution it will be very messy for a while – but the results will be worth it.
Now is the time to do it, because we have had crooks in the office, and they can be coped with, but now we have an Oliver Cromwell in the making – and we can’t afford to let him continue.
You’ve hit a couple of nails on the head. Why don’t people want an election? Apathy. Second, in any large organization plans should be made for 20-25 years into the future. For a country our size it should probably extend to 50 years, aside from pushing environmental policies to future dates what plans are there? Give me a date in which the national debt will be paid off completely.
Last night CTV reported that the government was not aware that that the military had suspended turning detainees over to Afghan authorities.
The issue of the detainees has been a troubling one for many Canadians for some time. Even government investators found evidence that torture had taken place in Afghan prisions.
From the first there seemed to be a real conflict between the policy of the government and the ethical and legal obligations of the Canadian military who are operating under the authority of the United Nations. If the Canadian troops believed that torture was taking place when they turned detainees over to the Afghans then they could not ethically or legally do so.
Since the government were adamently defending their policy in dealing with detainees is it conceivable that the military did not inform the government of its decision? The media and opposition are saying that the government had to have known. Under the circumstances, I think there was a good chance that the military did not inform them.
It seems to me that this government has difficulty accepting that simply giving an order does not place the person receiving that order above the law.
The point I want to make here is that the Prime Minister is not sovereign in Canada and cannot by decree alone place a subordinate above the law. We have become so fixated on leadership that we tend to forget that important point.
In actual practice, Stephen Harper’s much vaunted “accountability”, is simply a vacuous jingle
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/01/in-actual-practice-stephen-harpers-much.html
Bob Gates [Er, no relation to Bill] has suggested he would permit US forces to enter Afghanistan … provided Musharref issues an invitation. So far, Mush gives every indication Bob should fold the idea neatly into a little conical shape [dia. ~<1"] and stuff it!
Garth this is your best topic yet, you finally nailed Canada’s biggest problem. Almost every post I have made here has had this theme as in it somewhere so I won’t repeat myself. One thing I would point out however is my feeling that most people are turned off politics because most politicians only want to tell us what they think we want to hear rather than listening to our ideas and needs. That is the only way to find the “Big” issues. If you and your party follow this path you will find only success.
Sorry, I have to say this – Catherine, you are an idiot.
Garth, whenever they do polls about wanting an election – don’t Canadians always say they don’t want one?
It is amazing how we can all seem to identify the problems but we are very short on solutions. I hear statements like “I want my canada back” and get rid of the Cons, etc; etc;
The problem is all level’s of government. At the Municipal level one time people ran for a position to help their community. Now these offices are viewed as stepping stones to a provincial or federal seat. In our city the council of nineteen are in blocks. A portion are Liberal, Conservative, NDP and Green. It is at a point where there votes are in line with the provincial and federal cousins. The results they fail to get anything done but to blame the next levels of government.
Then you have the provincial level of government who use our tax dollars to support failing industries so these same people can go to the table an bargin for higher wages for individuals who left school and through connections happened to get a job making more money than a person who stayed in school and went on the post secondary education and became a professional. This is all done to buy votes and get elected.
Then there is the federal government who plays everyone one against each other to keep us divided and through these means are able to eke out a small majority or minority government. In most cases parties only represent about 38% to 40% of the people of Canada at anyone time.
Solution: In order to take our canada back we need to start a revolution. This could be done by refusing to pay municipal property tax until the councils we elect respond to the peoples needs and provide the essential services.
The people should refuse to pay provincial and federal income tax. When this happens and the lights go off at 24 Sussex, Harrington Lake and Stronaway, and the government employees have to be sent home when the flow of money is reduced to a trickle they may pay attention to the people.
It would not take long for us to get a proper health, school system and daycare spaces and for the govenment to be serious about the exonomy and deliver on their promises.
It would stop this treadmill of using our own money to bribe us by sitting on piles of this money and then slowly give it back for no other reason than getting elected.
THIS MAY SOUND RADICAL. BUT I BELIEVE MANY CANADIANS ARE AS FRUSTRATED AS I AM. WE HAVE BEEN PUTTING UP WITH THIS NONSENSE FOR FAR TOO LONG. IT IS TIME FOR CHANGE ESPECIALLY TO THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. UNTIL THE PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOTHING WILL CHANGE REGARDLESS OF WHO IS IN POWER.
SOMETIMES I WONDER IF THESE POLITICIANS ARE REALLY TRUE CANADIANS AND DID THEY HAVE PARENTS.
I guess once your elected the word “I am going there to work for you” “quickly turns to what’s in it for me”.
By CPM on 01.24.08 11:03 pm
Totally inappropriate!! Harper is the man to take this country past these uncertain economic times, I would agree.
I see snide remarks from the liberal posters against the present government and it is just as imature as your post.
I, for one, have given up. Europe needed civil war I, and civil war II to rout itself of their occupation. Canada will need a civil war to eliminate our occupation. BTW, read ANY news?paper, it’s like taking a valium, no problem, everything is fine, conservatives have everything under con-troll, OSB mill closes and 400 out of work in northern Alberta because CN wasn’t providing adaquate service??? as per Chris Warkentin MP Peace River, everything’s fine, go back to your slumber!
I guess once your elected the word “I am going there to work for you” “quickly turns to what’s in it for me”.
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 8:33 am
AMEN … ON TARGET … nobody wounded
A close friend of mine died last week and at the gathering of his good friends, oddly the discussion of politics came up (which is a no-no). What they were saying that upset them about politics today – “extreme partisanship”. Yes, corruption upsets them, but it gets dealt with and we move on BUT the partisanship of Harper has really turned them off. Now, these people are of different political stripes but ALL of them say they want Harper out – they can’t stand him and can’t stand his pettiness, childishness.
Also, the fact that Harper never, every, takes blame for all the files the CPC have totally messed up – now we have the “doesn’t pass the smell test” of the detainee issue. Lunn says that he doesn’t feel a need for an inquiry on the isotope matter – duh, what is Lunn afraid of.
When I look back, Harper and his bobbleheads have messed up nearly every file they work on – why?
Profound Garth. Good Friday topic.
Kennedy had the moon to shoot for. By committing America to being first to go there, he triggered extensive activity, that brought new technologies, some of which have become daily items around every household. It created jobs, and an economy that led the world in innovation.
Canada needs something to hope for. Some goal to work towards, a vision for the future that improves our quality of life. This could easily be research for the environment. Perhaps energy self-sufficiency.
Post war conditions brought mega-projects like highways, infrastructure etc., partially to employ veterans returning from war, who in many cases found their jobs now occupied by women who themselves found new challenges outside the household. Right now, that 50-60 year old infrastructure is crumbling – no vision from governments to maintain or improve them.
So, what the heck is WRONG with our elected “representatives”? Where is that vision?
Instead of vision as to a better Canada – or the world – we get self centered politicians who seem more motivated to trashing someone else to maintain power. Instead of vision we get criticism, slander, malicious actions. So, instead of voting “FOR” something, we now have an electorate focused on voting “AGAINST” something. This is total lack of vision.
Having vision such as going to the Moon, improving our environment, going to Mars, finding a solution to energy efficiency problems, whatever, would motivate people in a positive way. It would generate jobs, create new technology for mankind’s betterment.
The past 2 years has been the worst I can remember. There was decline before that, but our present government is the most lacking in a vision for what Canada was, and could still be. The partisan garbage has created an intolerable stink – from BOTH sides of the House.
ALL PARTIES, have become “the Opposition”, including the one “in power”. No one is showing any vision – just lots of complaining that it should be “different”.
Please, please, try and get this message to your LPC party, and to all you CPC hacks, before you flame me, please try and get your troup to actually tell us what your vision is. Who knows, maybe that would attract some support.
I want to be “for something”, and am very tired of voting for the lesser evil.
Maybe keep voting Rhino?
Dan,
That was exactly what Rona did, she had a GHG reduction plan that extended to 2050 (which was almost the same as the much heralded California 2050 year plan) and she was laughed out of town. So although I agree with you, a government with a 20 to 30 year plan would be great, it ain’t gonna happen with this crowd.
Kerry
Bob Gates [Er, no relation to Bill] has suggested he would permit US forces to enter PAKISTAN NOT AFGHANISTAN.
Musharreff has told him they have their own brains … I do think joint military operations are the answer at the border points, provided NATO kicks in to make the troop levels ROBUST.
I wonder why nobody in this man’s unit ever addressed his concerns? Are we so damned smug we don’t address perceived equipment problems.
Dead soldier questioned military equipment, town mayor says
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=e29da913-6ec6-490e-bdea-41590d8a3dc4
When I look back, Harper and his bobbleheads have messed up nearly every file they work on – why?
By slg on 01.25.08 8:45 am
…………………………………
Even worse is how the Liberal party has totally botched up by ’selecting’ inept Stephane Dion as their leader. If the Liberals had chosen somebody like Ignatieff, Rae or even Kennedy as their leader, at least they could have delivered the Liberal message a lot more comprehensively.
Most everybody here wants Harper kicked out, but I think that will only happen when Dion is gone and a new and dynamic Liberal leader emerges presenting a bold vision of Canada to Canadians. Dion is not the man and that is so very obvious and so very frustrating.
Why are Liberals clinging to Dion when most everybody in Canada, and particularaly in Quebec, don’t want this man as Canada’s next prime minister..??!!!
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 8:33 am
I do not find your concept of tax revolt all that radical. I actually looked into the legality of opening a trust to deposit my tax dollars into that would be held until the Government began to respond to my needs. Some folks have tried, and it did get attention, but eventually they all had to release the funds.
You are right that this would get attention. Not only the politicians, but the MSM would probably jump all over this.
Maybe we can get a retired “good ol’ boy” (or girl) to invest time setting up an internet group we can all join to put our “Class Action Suit” before the courts, government and the Canadian people…
From one “radical” to “another”…
TGIF
I believe harper and his liebackers are way down and decima always tries to ward off an election with their lying polls.
Canada, to its disfavour, has evolved a presidential style of government. People vote for leaders, not MPs, and yet it’s the name of an MP on the ballot.
This says exactly the point of how Steve thinks Canadian’s deserve to be treated.
Harper’s Canada
And we all know how mushrooms are grown!
So RISE UP, STAND UP for Canada you bunch of ‘Shrooms. Return Canada to being Canadian, not a clone of our southern neighbor. Tell Caesar Disgustus he not only has np clothes…He is repulsive with or without them! Make sure you send his entourage of ‘Shroom Rakers with him out the door! Someone turn ON the lights please! Let’s get this BULLSHIT out of here and clean things up.
Here we read REAL LEADERSHIP QUALITIES
Because we politicians have failed. What other excuse could there be? We’re not leaders when we lack followers, and right now most of our constituents are focused on their own lives, homes and families. Understandable. But it also defines a country without passion at the moment, lacking in commonality.
The ability to ADMIT we have been failed by our MP’s and government. This is a characteristic Caesar Disgustus simply will never have. His narcissistic ego disallows anything akin to such humility.
The CHOICE is OURS, not theirs. Exercise CHOICE, not FUD!
Be a William Wallace, not a Wall Flower Canadians! We are better people than what we have as leadership under Caesar Disgustus, aka Steve the Deceiver!
maybe Rhino? on 01.25.08 8:58 am,
Just like the Linda Keen issue, the Afghan detainee issue illustrates the inability of our politicians to get beyond partisan bickering and deal with the substance of an issue.
The whole idea of a government being so committed to a policy, so unwilling to bend to ethical or legal implications of an action, that they are ready to ignore the checks and balances in our system is repugnant.
Our system is badly broken when our elected representatives, on all sides of the partisan divide, fail to comprehend the seriousness of this issue.
The commander in the field did the right thing just as Linda Keen did the right thing.
The question is how can we as non-partisan Canadians convince the partisan class that the direction they are all moving is simply unacceptable?
By maggie on 01.24.08 10:57 pm
Your list only attacks, which is valid, but where is the vision for Canada? That is what is missing.
“So how is it that four of five people see ‘no big issues’ and believe leaders and parties lack any ‘big idea’?
Because we politicians have failed. What other excuse could there be? We’re not leaders when we lack followers, and right now most of our constituents are focused on their own lives, homes and families. Understandable. But it also defines a country without passion at the moment, lacking in commonality.” – Garth
Precisely! That hits the nail on the head. But what to do? This touches real deep roots of this society. One that is a apathetic as can be. A nation that prefers to be stupified by Doctor Phil and Co. will have a real hard time to change.
Canada needs something to hope for. Some goal to work towards, a vision for the future that improves our quality of life. This could easily be research for the environment. Perhaps energy self-sufficiency.
By Maybe Rhino
Recent study suggested Ontario could generate twice the level of electricity current required by using offshore wind turbines in the great lakes. Excess could be sold off to other provinces so they could shut down coal plants or to the States, the revenue would pay off the cost of the project. That sounds like a vision to me. Where’s the will.
What a load of Stephen Harper’s Income Trust tax
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-load-of-stephen-harpers-income.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/world/americas/24canada.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Is a sign of an incompetent bully hiding behind a woman’s skirt? Or is Sandra Buckler really the leader of the Conservative Party. We really need some clarification of who is in charge.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 01.25.08 9:08 am
I wonder when the Conservative home page will start denouncing the US for wanting to into Pakistan?
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 8:33 am
Very profoundly stated.
Unfortunately, if people refused to pay their taxes the goobernment would pick them off one by one. That is how the system works. Divide and conquer has been a mandate of power always.
The only real way is how the U.S. Federal Income tax was a long time ago. At the end of each year people looked to see what their personal situation was, and how the government had done its job, and what the real needs were. Then the people chose how much they would contribute, like a donation, to the government.
That is the only true means of control the people can have., Performance review of the people, by the people, and for the people.
People tend to show their best sides when they are free to do so, not when they are coerced to do so by FUD.
I don’t want to go to the dentist next month either.
So although I agree with you, a government with a 20 to 30 year plan would be great, it ain’t gonna happen with this crowd.
Kerry
By Kerry Busse on 01.25.08 9:03 am
I think you are in error as to why she was laughed out of town. People realize she was point blank delaying action that is needed NOW!
Had there been a 20-30 year plan in play 10 years ago we would not have the dire need to day. But that would require real courage and foresight by Parliament.
Whose fault is it? It is OUR fault for not paying attention and demanding action.
Time critical issues cannot wait 20-30 years, just like healthcare and treatment cannot.
Visions are fine, but it’s the practical decisions and actions that make or break politicians and nations.
Give me politicians who are able to perceive real problems, who can describe them credibly, and who can determine and show how they can be avoided or solved. Let others conjure up the mirages that may keep people moving in the desert – I’ll stick with politicians who know the watering holes (and not just the ones around the Hill!)
The Moth to the flame.
While waiting for Harry S. to gather himself and respond to my posts yesterday, an image of him came to mind. A Tiger Moth. No, not the airplane.
http://www.whatsthatbug.com/moths.html
Yosemite Sam?
So perhaps an environmental policy that actually requires some sacrifice from Canadians might not be such a hard sell after all. There’s a lot of emotional reward for voting for something you know is going to hurt, but is for the better good. You feel like your vote is really making a difference for once.
Go big! Go REALLY big! Challenge, don’t pander. If Canada can’t step up to a challenge, at least we’ll be certain we’re getting what we deserve.
Good analysis Garth,
As I see it the political leaders of today are so busy telling us that they wouldn’t do what the other guy proposes that they forget to tell us what they would do.
I’ll follow a leader who tells me where he’s going but not the guy who just critisizes where the other fellow is going.
Harry (the horse’s) S. on 01.24.08 11:58 pm:
The message for Dion is to “lead, follow or get out of the way” so that somebody like Ignatieff or Rae can step up as leader of the Liberal party…. [blah blah blah]
Good ol’ Harry doing his daily bit for the Slag Dion campaign, the campaign that by itself pretty much proves their premise (that Dion is not a Leader) is false. And they are probably right to fear him. Remember, Dion is the one who put Lucien Bouchard out of business politically, something Mulroney couldn’t do.
Instead we should keep Harper as our leader? Harper the sycophantic Dubya flunky who would have dragged us into the Iraq war? Harper they lying promise breaker who destroyed $35 billion in Canadians’ savings and Canada $2 billion in annual tax revenue? Harper the tyrant who slandered and fired our nuclear regulator simply for doing her job because it embarrassed his administration?
No Thank You.
EhBC
Dear Garth,
Yes, Energy Self-Sufficiency! Using the most abundant, readily available, resource to mankind… THE SUN!!!
Get the oil companies on-side as they have the infrastructure, distribution channels, expertise and financing capabilities to equip each and every household with solar panels.
After the country has become largely energy self-sufficient we can go back to Sir John A.’s dream and span the country with a high-speed rail corridor!
There are a couple of big ideas for ya.
Make it happen!
Sincerely,
MB
If anyone would like to see Sault Ste. Marie’s new sports & entertainment complex named the STEELBACK CENTRE renamed the ‘STEELBACK Sault Memorial Gardens’ in honour of the sacrifices made by all our war and peacekeeping Veterans please sign the following petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/mem0rial/petition.html
Solution: In order to take our canada back we need to start a revolution. This could be done by refusing to pay municipal property tax until the councils we elect respond to the peoples needs and provide the essential services.
The people should refuse to pay provincial and federal income tax. When this happens and the lights go off at 24 Sussex, Harrington Lake and Stronaway, and the government employees have to be sent home when the flow of money is reduced to a trickle they may pay attention to the people.
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 8:33 am
Mr. Halfkenny, to say I’m surprised by your comments is an understatement. If my inclination is somewhat correct, it appears that the heart of a revolutionary burns within you.
On yahoo.ca today there is a straw poll asking peoples opinion on the Afghanistan mission. What I find interesting about the results so far, is that people prefer to offer their own views rather than defer the issue to the wisdom of parliament. Only 23% chose a parliamentary vote. I’m wondering if this is representative of the level of trust Canadians have in the opinions of political leaders?
Off Topic, but Rex Murphy really said it for all of us last night regarding the shooting of innocent grocer in Toronto by what Rex described as ‘wastes of breath’ punks.
We need handguns like SARS. Wanna be a cowboy, a Buckeroo? Move to the U.S..
Arizona, Texas, or Montana will welcome you. Be aware, however, that everyone else has one too and some just like using them for the fun of it. BANG!
Bill, I reposted “brain’s” earlier post in order to point out what a lot of Canadians seem to be missing, namely the damage the Harper government is doing to our country. I feel it is incumbent on the opposition parties to get this and other information out to the people, since the MSM is unable or unwilling to expose this excuse for a Conservative government for what it really is.
As for vision, have you visited here?
http://www.liberal.ca/vision_e.aspx
TO MAYBE RHINO 01.25.08
I agree this is the only way the people will be heard. This could start at the municipal level and work its way through the entire political system. They cannot throw us all in jail. this would return the country to the people rather than a few selected (lawyer) poiticians. This is why the country is so screwed up
Unfortunately, Dion is still hesitant and vacillating. This will get us nowhere.
I nominate Garth to lead the charge on Parliament Hill, and to bring together a coalition of independents, malcontents and digital-democracy-bents as a rallying point to give Canadians a real choice to the old-line parties.
There is a whole grassroots movement out there just waiting for a leader. If not Garth, who? If not now, when?
It’s time, Canadians.
Who will second the motion?
By maggie on 01.25.08 11:23 am
I thought that may have been the case. enclosing quotes in italics really helps keep things straight. Thanks for the correction Maggie.
Here are a few ‘visions’ I have for Canada.
1. Let us take our vast hrdro generation capability and maximize it to provide for our own needs, and for net export. A source that is GHG free.
2. let us take our natural wind power and use it as well.
3. let us use our CANDU reactors and build more.
4. Let us manage our forests even better than they are now.
5. Let us use our natural, intellectual, and God given gifts to make this a better nation, and after we have our own house in stable order, the world.
6. Let us revise our tax forms so that they are comprehensible by everyone.
7. Let us mandate that we are Peacekeepers always, unless DIRECTLY attacked.
8. Let us revitialize our great Canadian values and stop trying to appease a minority of Americans. Most AQmericans hold the same great values we do, but they have been denied information by their MSM for decades. People come first, because without enabled people nothing will get accomplished.
9. Let us get involved at whatever level of government we are able as participants, not mere spectators.
10. let us revise our manufacturing to make Canadian designed products. Automobiles and aircraft, as well as trains come to mind. If we can produce products that can reliaibly withstand our harsh climate, they should be very exportable.
There are just 10 ideas.
maggie on 01.25.08 11:23 am,
A vision is more than a series of platitudes or “feel good” statements. That is the problem with the Liberal Party. No matter how much you adore the partisan spin it does not represent the kind of language that conveys anything of substance to Canadian voters.
By C. B. Innes on 01.25.08 9:24 am
Becoming a partisan is EASY WAY OUT. After all, you do not have to think. All you have to do is follow someone else’s blarney.
Having vision is WORK. You must come up with the idea, examine the plus/minus aspect, determine feasibility, get key people involved or obtain their input, etc., etc.
This is why we hear the same-old-same-old from the trolls here. Not one has really expounded on vision nor goal to any great extent. There has been very little debate on any issue. All there is is attack, and when the idea is too deep for the simple minded sheeple, they attack the person.
Too many find it easier to jump on a bandwagon than go against the flow and stand up for an idea, concept, or non-partisan approach. It is easier to become faceless in a crowd than it is to stand up and be counted.
I find it hard to believe that the stuff some folks say here would be repeated in a face-to-face with a neighbour, colleague, or stranger in a pub.
Unfortunately, I am losing my optimism, and reading this blog often leaves me somewhat depressed. i find it hard to hear fellow Canadians declare such hate, bigotry, towards others just because their position is different. It is blind partisanship rather than informed debate.
I do not know how to fix this. I can only try to work on my own efforts.
Perhaps if we/I refuse to respond to stupid, partisan remarks, these people will feel less empowered, and either change their approach, or just go away as they are not getting the attention they seek.
Who will second the motion?
By Ike on 01.25.08 11:26 am
I second that motion!
The question is how can we as non-partisan Canadians convince the partisan class that the direction they are all moving is simply unacceptable?
By C. B. Innes on 01.25.08 9:24 am
We need every MP to host Town Hall meetings so that they can HEAR what we have to say. The Town Hall form is the best way to let them know what Canadians think. I wonder if that is asking to much? I also wonder if all parties would participate. I’m gessing NOT
By maggie on 01.25.08 11:23 am
Thanks for the link. While I agree with the comcepts presented, I also would change to wording to more specific and committed statements.
For instance A Brighter Future For Our Aboriginals I would change that to a ‘A Realisitic, meaningful, and sustainable future for our Aboriginals’
They have been promised things for way too long. So have we.
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 11:24 am
This is why I brought up the concept of paying your taxes, but holding them back. Putting into a trust can show you are not evading taxes, and are willing to pay them.
It has been done at the municipal level. It has brought MSM attention to “embarassing issues”.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to really research the ins-and-outs of getting this happening.
An side… Wht are Harperites called TORIES.. They are a poor excuse for the true tories of yesteryear.
Seems ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ is TODAY in California?
Snow, rain, wind, pelt Southern California
At least one waterspout from the Pacific made landfall Thursday night, the National Weather Service said. The tornado tore the roof off of a building at Naval Base Ventura County in Point Mugu, meteorologist Curt Kaplan said.
Tornadoes? Those don’t happen in California, and this one came ashore from the Pacific.
Let us all focus on the future and dare to dream big dreams for this wonderful country we call Canada…
Environmental Leadership.
Let’s focus on sustainable development the the tremendous opporunities that exist in becoming a world environmental leader. We can focus our educational system through university research grants to probe new discoveries and innovation in green technologies. We can provide Canadian manufacturers and resource companies with assistance and resources to cut waste, improve their efficiency and become more productive and competitive, and help them adopt new green technologies to dramatically reduce their negative impacts on the environment.
Societal justice.
I believe that one of the best ways to measure the success of a country is to look at how the most disadvantaged in the society are treated. Using that measure as a benchmark Canada can aspire to do much more for Aboriginal peoples, new immigrants, and the legions of poor that currently exist. When segments of our society remain disadvantaged Canada loses their intellect to help solve problems and create through innovation, we lose their drive and ambition to contribute and achieve, their compassion and caring to help others. Let us strive to be a country that believes in human potential. Let us be a society that invests in human beings and offers those that need a hand up…a hand of hope and support.
A leader in transparent democracy.
If we all believe that democracy represents the best form of government then let us all strive to be a world model for openness and transparency when it comes to the operations of our government. Let us insist on the independence of regulatory agencies and the judiciary. Let us insist that the public service is free of any kind of partisan intervention. Let us welcome full public enquiries as demonstrations of government accountability and investments in the maintenance and ongoing development of our democracy.
Peace Making.
Let us build on Canada’s reputation as a world leader in peace making and on the heritage that the first UN mission into Eygpt helped create for Canada. Let us focus our diplomatic efforts as objective and respected members of the world. Let us stand up for the rule of international law, human dignity, and be supporters of human rights around the globe.
Champions of human equality.
Let us use Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms as a model for world. Let us champion the rights of all humans and strive to achieve true equality in our society so it can serve as a model for other countries around the world.
There is much for which we can dream. There is much on which we can focus our collective intelligence and efforts. There is much Canada can do change ourselves and the world around us. Let us dare to dream together.
Thomas Stirr
http://www.tomstirr.com
TO GREG 01.25.08
I will check out the Yahoo site on the war poll, it sounds interesting.
Greg, I have been actively voting for 51 years at all levels of government. It get frustrating seeing us beating each other up when it appears that no matter what we say has no bearing on what politicians do regardless of what party they belong to.
Al I hear the politians keep saying that their lives are so difficult looking after our interest. They have to move and maintain two residents. However, no mention of the allowance they receive. The reason I need a gold plated pension is that I sacrifrice so much to represent you and the prospects of employment after I am defeated or leave politics is not favourable. Have you ever seen a defeated MP who did not get a plum patronage appointment to augment their gold plated pension after being defeated or leaving.
To top it off they try to find some way to receive the Order of Canada for the great service they have done for the country. Some will say that not all MP’s are the same. To me they are all part of a political machine that just keeps churning to keep the people in the dark. It is not about what they can do for the country or to make it a better place for everyone. If these people had a genuine interest we would have a proper healtcare system, affordable housing, the elimination of food banks, a repaired crumbling infrastucter and education system that guarantees everyone an afforable education he wish one. There are other issues like renewable energy and cutting of green house gases.
What I see that is lacking is there is no PLAN for the country. Each time we elect a new government we get a new plan (every two or three year)that is why we have so many problems. The Liberals had the RED BOOK (a good idea)but failed to follow it. Even the Russians used to produce a five year plan.
Bill M, sorry about the lack of quotes & italics…lazy me.
As for vague vision statements, not until an election campaign is underway should specifics be disclosed. Trust the Tories not to steal Liberal ideas & programs and call them their own? HA!
Canada, to its disfavour, has evolved a presidential style of government. People vote for leaders, not MPs, and yet it’s the name of an MP on the ballot.
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 9:20 am
that’s right, and we never had that before evil Steven and his bush puppies. time to overthrow them.
The Liberals had the RED BOOK (a good idea)but failed to follow it.
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 12:11 pm
Failed? sounds like you think there was intent to follow through on it. The author, Paul Martin, publically called it junk.
Three Pillars – One Vision – Our Vision
http://www.liberal.ca/vision_e.aspx
The Liberal Party’s three pillar approach sets a clear path to ensuring Canada’s bright and prosperous future. By weaving together economic prosperity, social justice and environmental sustainability, together we can build a better Canada.
In Summary
Liberals believe in a Canada that is the envy of the world. A country where economic prosperity goes hand in hand with social development and where a healthy sustainable environment is driven by leading edge research and innovation.
(A noble belief, but is it reality?)
Investing in a Stronger Canada
A truly innovative economy is one driven by ideas, invention and technologies, one which leads the way in how it produces goods and delivers them to global markets.
(True, but many Canadians want to insulate the country from ‘globalization’.)
A Healthy Environment
The world is now facing a global environmental threat worse than any we have previously seen. Canadians know that climate change is real; they are witnessing first hand more violent storms, longer heat waves and increasing droughts.
(When in government, Liberals refused to make Kyoto a ‘priority’ and GHG emissions rose a staggering 32%.)
Social Justice for All
Giving families a helping hand, at all stages of life, is an important part of creating a society of which we can all be proud.
(And finally it was the Conservatives who helped families, while Liberal only promised for 13 years that there would be no child poverty by 2000.)
Strengthening Our Communities
Canada’s cities are at the centre of our country’s success; driving economic growth, employment and innovation. As our population grows and changes, our cities are facing increasing challenges in dealing with the growing burden placed on municipalities.
(Cities are the responsibility of their provinces, and the federal government should not be funding inefficient cities.)
Timely and Quality Healthcare
Our national health care system is a legacy that Liberals will never abandon. We will ensure that our health care system will continue to be there when Canadians need it, no matter where they live, and no matter what their income.
(Then Finance Minister Martin downloaded on to the provinces causing a healthcare system breakdown).
Respecting Our Farmers
Our hard-working farmers deserve the unqualified respect and gratitude of their fellow Canadians. Their contribution to the fabric of our nation does not receive the recognition it should.
(Liberal ‘recognition = Liberal ‘platitudes’ … because Liberals depend primarily on the urban vote.)
A Brighter Future for Aboriginal Canadians
The rich cultures of Canada’s First Nations, Inuit and Métis people form the foundation of our great country. Aboriginal Canadians represent the largest segment of our young people and the fastest growing segment of our population.
(Conservatives are attempting to include aboriginal women under the Bill of Rights but are opposed by the Liberal chiefs.)
A More Representative Parliament
Women and girls in Canada today enjoy a level of equality and freedom that eluded their mothers and grandmothers. But despite the tremendous progress we have made, Canada’s Parliament still has unacceptably few women.
(Suddenly Liberals have discovered ‘women’ and want to inject them into the Canadian Parliament.)
Canada Will Not Fail the World
Canadians can be proud of our nation’s history of service to the world. Whether it is through international aid, peacekeeping, trade or security, the Liberal team is committed to ensuring Canada’s continued international role of pride and influence.
(But Dion want’s Canada pull out of Afghanistan and then leave Afghani women and children to the tender mercies of the Taliban.)
………………………………….
It’s fine to have a vision, but why should Canadians believe you Liberals with your 13 year record of lies, failures and corruption. Why should Canadians give you Liberals a second chance??
I prefer to give the Harper Conservatives a 4 year majority government to see what they can do for Canadians, without being sabotaged by an incompetent opposition.
maybe Rhino? on 01.25.08 11:51 am,
Not all municipal governments are equal. I have lived in different places and found that some municipal governments do a good job while others are “out to lunch” most of the time. It is up to the people to make sure that their government operates effectively. Democracy is more than just marking a ballot every so many years. It includes active involvement.
One of the biggest mistakes that people make is simply electing a representative to any level of government and then expecting that representative to intuitively know that the people he or she represents want. You have to active and in some cases even pro-active in keeping those who represent you on their toes.
I believe that giving praise and support when it is due is even more important than constantly complaining. Remember that politics is all about human relationships.
Personally, I think Dion may be falling into the same trap as Martin when it comes to politics (not policy): listening too much to what everyone else has to say.
It is clear that the LPC has a “dream team”. It is clear that no party has as much pragmatic vision. It is clear that the sum total knowledge and intellect of the CPC may be equivalent to the top 10 LPC members, if that.
But there are reasons why there are no referendums determining public policy. Nothing would ever get done. You end up with a cacophony of self-interested and self-absorbed ideas. Everyone is in politics for a variety of reasons and it will be reflected in their answers to “consultations”.
In the end, you have to come to an executive decision, and everyone has to realize that it is not personal.
That being said, perhaps it would be better to pull the trigger after the by-elections, and build momentum and confidence from that (and I mean within the LPC). Although it is a serious waste of taxpayers money to go through the by-elections and then go through a spring/summer vote, not to mention the simple fact that the LPC will win those seats hands-down.
Austin
P.S. Harry S, I see you are trying to re-cloak yourself as an LPC faithful, concerned only with Dion. Your fixation with him for someone you perceive as “weak” is truly amazing.
I have a suggestion, silly as it maybe.
Since we are unable to get answers from the current government why not hold a series of leadership debates on the most pressing issues and Yes the Green party should be included. This would not be avote for me and I’ll give you this but answers to online questions sent by the general public. Each leader should answer the same question because I would surely like to hear Jack Layton’s plan for getting the troops out of Afganistan. Have two moderators and if any one of the leaders spouts the party line or fails to answer the question it is passed on to the next leader. My issues would be!) How to fix the economic downturn. 2) Our role in Afganistan going forward. 3) Our enviromental policy starting now. 4) How to improve our healtcare. 5) Positive ideas to support our laid off manufacturing workers.
I’m sure ther are many more questions we would like answered by the leaders and if we have these answers ahead of an election we would all be better informed.
By 300baud on 01.25.08 11:02 am
I completely agree.
To succeed, the Liberal Party must provide a national vision framework for its candidates.
The ability to communicate vision inspires people to go out in the world and be more than they are today. Buying into a vision empowers us, makes us feel significant, motivates us to get involved and translates into a feel of power.
A party’s vision paints a picture of the way it views the future — do we see a future with promise or do we see a future where the status quo is acceptable?
A party’s vision naturally flows from the values to which that party is committed — does a party’s vision invoke traditional Canadian values? Or does it pander to our darker inclinations?
A party’s vision gives its followers a sense of meaning and significance.
And most importantly, vision provides the framework that allows leaders to address the voter’s most important self interest of all — the need for meaning in life.
-R
Thank you, Bill, for seconding that motion.
So far, there seems to be no “groundswell” of support from which momentum may be harnessed to form a movement.
It reminds me of the pollster who asked the question: “What is our greatest enemy–ignorance or apathy?”
The response was overwhelming: “I don’t know, and I don’t care.”
What will it take to initiate true change?
I would say that it mut begin inside each one of us, including cutting out the foul language, the personal attacks, and the devaluing of human beings with whom we disagree.
That is part of the problem, and not any part of the solution if a consensus or a community of interest is to be formulated.
By Herb on 01.25.08 10:56 am
Hi
Well, to me, in order to solve problems, and not just deal with the symptoms, you need some form of vision. Otherwise, you just keep throwing money to deal with the problem rather than curing the illness.
Cohesive and comprehensive approach to problem solving requires vision. Otherwise, you get something like “too many unemployed? Just extend their benefits”, instead of creating an environment to prosper within.
You do need both. Tactics are worthless without strategy.
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 11:40 am
http://www.tomstirr.com
By Thomas Stirr on 01.25.08 12:08 pm
Great thoughts, dreams and vision…we should start putting these all together in a word document and send it to the leaders of all parties.
Please don’t take this the wrong way Garth, but none of the current batch of politicians are going to inspire people with a vision of change. What we need is someone with a similar set of creds to Barak Obama – young, with a defined vision (whether you agree with the vision or not), and few ties to the current batch of politicians (who are, by and large, viewed as tainted at the best, and completely corrupt at worst).
Just my perspective
By Rob Wiebe on 01.25.08 12:49 pm
A party’s vision gives its followers a sense of meaning and significance.
And most importantly, vision provides the framework that allows leaders to address the voter’s most important self interest of all — the need for meaning in life.
………………………………
Well here is the Liberal “Three Pillars – One Vision” on their website at:
http://www.liberal.ca/vision_e.aspx
I have commented on that ‘vision here:
By Harry S on 01.25.08 12:27 pm
Are you suggesting this vision is inadequate and should be revised? What do you see wrong with it ??
P.S. Harry S, I see you are trying to re-cloak yourself as an LPC faithful, concerned only with Dion. Your fixation with him for someone you perceive as “weak” is truly amazing.
By Austin So on 01.25.08 12:36 pm
…………………………………
I am a true Canadian, and I don’t see politics in a ‘them and us’ tribal mentality as you and other on this forum believe. You are a devisive and destructive mentality that considers anybody who doesn’t think like you, a traitor.
Thankfully, people like you are in a minority, otherwise Canada would be thrown into a civil war started by the likes of you and Billy-Mskrt.
http://www.liberal.ca/vision_e.aspx
I have commented on that ‘vision here:
By Harry S on 01.25.08 12:27 pm
By Harry S on 01.25.08 1:06 pm
Unfortunately, your comments are partisan and lack objectivity….a thinly-veiled attempt at attacking past Liberal actions. It doesn’t take a genius to see through your tactics.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that Dion is a visionary.
He is a follower, and not a leader. He is waiting for the next opinion poll before deciding, he is waiting for the next budget before deciding, he is waiting for the next throne speech, and at the end of the day, sits on his hands and does nothing.
Is this how a nation is built?
If we keep on doing the same old, same old thing over and over again, why would we expect a different result?
All I have been told is to be patient. We have been patient, too patient. We have simply accepted the status quo for too long, with the only dream that we are pursuing being the midguided and ill-conceived “vision” that if we keep on doing the same old thing, that it will somehow produce a different result.
Austin So on 01.25.08 12:36 pm,
There a major difference in how we see leadership.
As I see it, leadership is the ability to listen to all points of view, cut through the crap, and articulate a direction that encompasses that middle road that the vast majority can support. It is not being a dictator or all-knowing. It is merely having a good doze of “commonsense” and the ability to apply it in the correct measure to an objective in which all can share.
While I see no “vision” in what the Liberals call vision, I do not believe that it needs to have some grand focus like putting a man on the moon.
What it does need to do is articulate a direction that is other than the status quo and that awakens in people the confidence that it is something that can be accomplished, that they can share in or contribute to, and in doing so will make this country a better place.
I would say that Stephen Harper does have a vision. The problem is that he has a “vision” for Canada that he knows is not shared by most Canadians and he is afraid to articulate it for that reason. Harper’s vision is one in which only a very few can share that makes it unacceptable as a national vision.
One of the problems we face is that we have allowed the office of prime minister to have almost unchecked power in fact – theoretically the incumbent can be turfed out by the members – but our party system has effectively turned the individual members into a not-very-photogenic backup chorus and applause unit.
As a result, the incumbent has powers that few other democratically elected leaders have – more akin to the dictator for life of some third world country – we have already seen how the office can be turned to personal gain under the present system – the potential to become a tyrant is there.
The cure – return to the requirement that the leader MUST have the confidence of the caucus – take the performing seal out of the backbencher and restore them to their real job – representing the good citizens of Podunk Centre and Upper Rushing Brook.
The leaders with real visions that are good for the country will emerge – its a whole lot harder to convince a couple of hundred people who see you face to face than it is to swing a mass media advertising campaign.
The present system is broke – fix it now while it is still easy to do.
As for the rest of us – talk to your member – tell them what you think whether you agree or disagree – politely – if they won’t take your call – fling them out as soon as you have the opportunity.
Well then, Stephane Dion is certainly not your man either.
And given what we see how your Liberal colleague behave (Pablo Rodriguez and Mark Holland and, and, and), I don’t see any leadership coming from Stephane Dion on this front as well.
By Catherine on 01.25.08 4:44 am
________________________________________
Catherine, Stephen Harper has proven time & time again that he is definitely not qualified to be the Prime Minister of Canada. It takes more than “I want” to the Prime Minister to be a great leader. I think Stephan Dion has all the qualities it takes to be a PM & from what I see & hear, he is exactly the man Canadians will embrace as the next Prime Minister of Canada.
Check out these sites in today’s Toronto Star for more insights on Stephen Harper.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/297330
http://www.thestar.columnist/article/296981
Cheers
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/
Buckler retracts her statement re detainees. What does this mean? Are all statements from the PMO retractable.
Muskoka Bill, you listed some fine points but fail to understand, that the WTO decides where the money is spent. Tigthen up on natural resources (Canada is a natural resource base country) and we will get cut of at the knees. Bill the reason Canadians (Polling) do not want an election is quite simple, they have thrown in the towel plain and simple they see all politicians of saying one thing and doing another. Steve Harper breached many things and has done nothing (his base has not moved upward rather downward) should he and it’s a good bet he will run nasty negative bame game election and loose because those days are gone as is evident south of border. Stephane Dion is a quiet leader that appeals to the younger generation who do not like old style politics and they tend to say nothing while busying themselves in self interests and will tune in once an election is called. We ode foggies (political junkies) do what we do best talk,chat and pick on each other. Think Bill in age of Blackberries and the internet our younger generation can tune into the facts anytime they want, and TV negative adds and Martin whoever he was is past history. You want Steve Harper you can have him, I suspect our young generation want a man who will listen and not make a fuss.
What will it take to initiate true change?
By Ike on 01.25.08 12:50 pm,i?
A major crisis like Katrina.
If half the public is apathetic and the other half could care less,you know it’s time to change the voting structure.
I vote for a “American Idol” type of vote..Lets get the whole family involved,including the kids.
MPs get 5 mins to “perform” before a panel of experts to see if they can “sing” or are hopeless dreamers.
That should knock a few (fake) birds off their perches.
WHO IS IN CHARGE IN THE PMO?
Harper is a weak leader.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/
Buckler retracts her statement re detainees. What does this mean? Are all statements from the PMO retractable.
By Geminesse on 01.25.08 1:51 pm
By David Bakody on 01.25.08 1:57 pm
Reagrding the WTO ”Let’s follow Nancy Reagan’s quip and ‘Just say NO!’
In an e-mail to The Globe and Mail on Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s communications director, Sandra Buckler, said the military did not tell the government about the suspension.
Ms. Buckler called Friday to say she “misspoke” but would not say whether the military had or had not informed the government. G & M
It seems that we are not the only ones that our PM does not talk to.
I am one of those who does not see either Stephane Dion or Stephen Harper as having the qualities we need in our Prime Minister (and definately not Jack Layton).
Stephen Harper tries to govern on the basis of the idea that the Prime Minister is sovereign. While that concept has been part and parcel of the Ottawa culture since at least the Trudeau era it does not make it right.
It appears that the campaign to vilify the public servant goes back precisely to the period in which the cult of leadership began to transform the role of Prime Minister to that of sovereign.
I had hoped that Dion, by consulting his MPs, would have began the process of moving the Liberal Party back to a more effective and less imperial form of leadership but more and more he seems to be failing because of personal attributes that mitigate against his success such his problem articulating in English, his tendency to act in an imperial fashion by appointing party candidates or prohibiting the party from opposing Elizabeth May’s candidature, and trying to maintain the Liberal status quo with regard to policies designed to promote corporate globalization.
We have two leaders that are not providing the kind of leadership we need but from radically different perspectives.
By David Bakody on 01.25.08 1:57 pm
Regarding the WTO ”Let’s follow Nancy Reagan’s quip and ‘Just say NO!’
Personally, I think this may be a plan.
When the U.S. is declared bankrupt by the world’s banks, England reclaims all of its previous territory, as well as France, and Spain.
Canada, being a part of the Commonwealth, will take over the British territory, and annex it into Canada. France can have Lousiana back, and we can move the Quebec Separatists there, and unify Canada. Spain can have Texas, and the southwest back as well, along with California.
This will put France between British and Spainish areas just as they are in Europe. We can then rename the area to EU-2. LOL
Such is the nature of foreclosure, eh?
Check out these sites in today’s Toronto Star for more insights on Stephen Harper.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/297330
http://www.thestar.columnist/article/296981
Cheers
- IRENE
Check out the Toronto Star for insights into Stephen Harper? Yeah, that’s fair (note sarcasm here).
Stephane Dion could beat his wife and the Toronto Star would still support him.
Are all statements from the PMO retractable.
By Geminesse on 01.25.08 1:51 pm
Why of course, just as platform planks, campaign promises, treaties, or any thing else Caesar Disgustus deems not the interests in his lust for power.
Are you suggesting this vision is inadequate and should be revised? What do you see wrong with it ??
By Harry S on 01.25.08 1:06 pm
That’s not a terrible statement but a few critical pieces are missing to make it effective.
It isn’t placed in an historic context. To be successful, it should give a sense that we are an historical crossroads; it should provide a sense of the challenges involved, today, and the possibilities we might realize. tomorrow.
The Liberals’ vision should be placed in a progressive frame and set up to contrast progressive and conservative values. It should contrast the conservative’s belief in the pursuit of individual interest with the progressive’s commitment to the common good. It should contrast conservative selfishness versus progressive commitment to others. It should contrast conservative fear versus progressive hope. It should contrast conservative division versus progressive unity.
To appeal to my emotions, the three pillars need symbols, like stories, metaphors, language that paints pictures, etc.
I don’t find it very inspiring. The Liberals’ vision needs to provide hope that our next generation will live better than our own. It needs to ask Canadians to fight for a better future. The vision should call on Canadians to commit themselves to the common good, to each other and to the next generation.
It should better explain how Canada can be a world leader in achieving the three pillars, how Canada can be a shining example of the values that define the vision.
Great question, Harry. Thanks.
-R
… if the Toronto Star where a hockey team, they would have no one to play right wing …
Such is the nature of foreclosure, eh?
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 2:31 pm
I always said on buisness trips to Boston that I was there to keep an eye on the colonists.
They almost served me tea, very old and soggy tea!
“What will it take to initiate true change?” –By Ike on 01.25.08 12:50 pm
“A major crisis like Katrina.” –By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 2:05 pm
Bill, it seems it will have to take more than that. All that Katrina produced was bickering and counter-accusations between the federal and the city governments, and left the political situation essentially unchanged.
The organizers of Mardi Gras in New Orleans are determined to carry on “bigger and badder” than ever.
Stephane Dion could beat his wife and the Toronto Star would still support him.
By Lex Luthor on 01.25.08 2:31 pm
_________________________________________
ASre you for real Lex? I have read some pretty bad comments on Mr. Dion from the Toronto Star. Just because you don’t like to hear the truth doesn’t mean that everyone is wrong. So Stuff it.
Cheers
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/297330
http://www.thestar.columnist/article/296981
Cheers
By Irene on 01.25.08 1:49 pm
Thanks for the links, Irene. I read the first one, but couldn’t access the second one. The first one made some very valid points, in my opinion.
“The Liberals’ vision needs to provide hope that our next generation will live better than our own. It needs to ask Canadians to fight for a better future. The vision should call on Canadians to commit themselves to the common good, to each other and to the next generation.” –Rob Wiebe.
Unfortunately, a politician thinks only of the next election. It takes a statesman to think of the next generation. I see no statesman or woman on the political horizon.
Such a “statesperson” will need to be one who can bring the generations, the gender and the ethnicities together in a community of interest. That means rising above the partisanship that we see in political parties today, including (but not exclusive to) the Liberal Party of Canada.
When will we learn that the Liberal Party is no different, and in its present form, is incapable of becoming our saviour? They have already ruled Canada for the vast majority of our history and, in my view, do not deserve yet another kick at the can.
We need a leader who can bring true transformation of heart and attitude and motivation from within along non-partisan lines.
By Harpercrite Harry S on 01.25.08 12:27 pm
It’s fine to have a vision, but why should Canadians believe you Liberals with your 13 year record of lies, failures and corruption. Why should Canadians give you Liberals a second chance??
I prefer to give the Harper Conservatives a 4 year majority government to see what they can do for Canadians, without being sabotaged by an incompetent opposition.
Yeah right, Harry Harpercrite. Don’t ever let those scuzzy Liberals back in. Much better to keep the Tories who did 30+ times as much damage in 2 years as the Liberals did in 13! And that with just one piece of legislation!
Liberals in 13 years – Adscam ($100 million) plus Gun Registry ($1 billion) plus Shawinigate ($? 2million maybe? ) plus miscellaneous ($??, make it $1 million) =$1.103 billion.
Tories – Tax Fairness plan ($35 Billion + $2 billion/year indefinitely!)
And you think we should give these guys a majority?
Yikes!
EhBC
By winner on 01.25.08 2:12 pm
If Canada went with a phone in American Idol kind of election, the only way I would paticipate in that is if the number was toll free. I would not want to waste my valuable 5 cent per minute long distence charge on that.
You can’t inspire people if you keep your cards close to your chest. Get out there, promote your program. Force your opponents to offer better ideas, and only then we’ll get somewhere. The Greens have a public platform and great ideas but don’t have the exposure, but the Liberals would, so go out and get it done. Let’s fire up the voters!
We need a leader who can bring true transformation of heart and attitude and motivation from within along non-partisan lines.
By Ike on 01.25.08 3:04 pm
Wonderful statement, Ike.
-R
ASre you for real Lex? I have read some pretty bad comments on Mr. Dion from the Toronto Star. Just because you don’t like to hear the truth doesn’t mean that everyone is wrong. So Stuff it. – IRENE
First of all, I’ve never hear the Toronto Star say anything bad about the Liberals and Stephane Dion. Some links would help to prove your point.
In fact, someone called my house the other day to sell me a subscription to the Toronto Star. I dared them to produce a favourable article on Steve Harper or a critical article on Stephane Dion. They couldn’t do it.
“So stuff it” – Wow, I guess that really proves your point. I was wrong. You argument is irrefutable.
You harrass kids hired to sell newspaper subscriptions by telephone? What kind of a low-life partisan creep are you? — Garth
Lex,
Just because a newspaper bashes Harper does not mean it is left leaning. The truth is what is important. Your guy is bad, very simple.
Is TO Sun leftist too?
Stephane Dion says he knew of Afghan prisoner decision a week ago
By THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA – Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he learned more than a week ago that Canadian troops had stopped handing over captured Taliban fighters to local authorities.
He says he and deputy leader Michael Ignatieff were informed of the decision during their visit to Afghanistan – which began Jan. 12 – but were sworn to secrecy by the army.
Dion says since he knew, there is no way the Conservative government could have been kept in the dark by the military as a top aide to Prime Minister Stephen Harper claimed.
The Dion revelation came just as that aide did an about-face over her claim the military didn’t tell the government about the prisoner situation.
Sandra Buckler, the prime minister’s communications director, now says she miss poke.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2008/01/25/4794161-cp.html
Harper aide backtracks as Afghan prisoner scandal grows
By THE CANADIAN PRESS
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2008/01/25/4794057-cp.html
You harrass kids hired to sell newspaper subscriptions by telephone? What kind of a low-life partisan creep are you? — Garth
By Lex Luthor on 01.25.08 3:47 pm
He is Lex Luthor, Villian Extraordinaire Garth. The fact that he spends way to much time reading comic books is the explanation.
Based on his comments I do not believe he even has read the Star. The paper has much negative about Dion, but only when it is warranted. Chantel Herbert lambasts the Liberals all the time.
The minds of the CRAPper’s is always the same. They lack any thing like an empathy lobe for people. To them it is all about money. Money for them stolen from the wallets of the working class and poor.
That is the primary difference between CONswervatives and liberals.
You harrass kids hired to sell newspaper subscriptions by telephone? What kind of a low-life partisan creep are you? — Garth
Same as you, jackass!
By Rob Wiebe on 01.25.08 2:35 pm
To appeal to my emotions, the three pillars need symbols, like stories, metaphors, language that paints pictures, etc.
I don’t find it very inspiring. The Liberals’ vision needs to provide hope that our next generation will live better than our own. It needs to ask Canadians to fight for a better future. The vision should call on Canadians to commit themselves to the common good, to each other and to the next generation.
It should better explain how Canada can be a world leader in achieving the three pillars, how Canada can be a shining example of the values that define the vision.
Great question, Harry. Thanks.
………………………………………………………………………….
No …. thank you Rob for your civil response to my critique of the Liberal ‘vision’.
Believe it or not, I have voted Liberal many years ago, but when I saw the extent of the Liberal corruption and the intention to send Billion$$$ through Kyoto Carbon Credits to their friends in China that would help support the Chinese economy and knowing that the Chinese didn’t really care about Kyoto, I rejected them and attacked the Martin government.
I looked at the new Conservatives with Harper, listened and even met Harper briefly, and then I knew he was the only hope Canada had to stop the Liberal traitors to Canada. I am not a CPC party member.
However, I still want to have a renewed Liberal party to balance Canadian politics, and I had hope that somebody like Ignatieff would emerge as the new Liberal leader. He did promise to ‘renew’ the Liberal party, but the old corrupt Liberal guard screwed him a flocked to Dion, who they could manipulate, and they have certainly done that.
I want to see Canada governed for 4 years by a majority Conservative government, and if they fail my expectations, I will attack them too. Hopefully by that time the Liberal party will have a viable leader and the party purged of it’s sordid past.
I believe it is imperative that Liberals replace Dion with somebody who is not beholden to the past interests which corrupts the party and sacrifices Canada for their evil interests. As it is now, Dion is incapable of rallying Canadians to the Liberal party because he is not a competent and cogent leader … and that is undeniable.
Canadians have rejected Dion, poll after poll for 2 years, and I don’t see any hope for the Liberal party as long as he remains leader. Liberal faithful on this forum continue to flog a dead horse in Dion and their hatreds emerge due to their frustration over the reality that Dion is a dud.
Dion must go … no ifs, ands or buts ….!!!!
You harrass kids hired to sell newspaper subscriptions by telephone? What kind of a low-life partisan creep are you? — Garth
By Lex Luthor on 01.25.08 3:47 pm
Pretty much the lowest if that is what s/he is doing.
Personally I just tell the telemarketers the people they are calling for are deceased. They never call back again and is easier then telling them to remove my number from their calling lists.
Thanks for the links, Irene. I read the first one, but couldn’t access the second one. The first one made some very valid points, in my opinion.
By Lana on 01.25.08 3:01 pm
________________________________________
Sorry lana, I gave you the wrong aticle # so try this link. It is comments made by Chantel Hebert.s comme
http://www.thestar.comcomment/article/297383
Have a good Friday,
Cheers
Oops, ignore “s comments”. To much muti-tasking again.
Irene
All right, here is my vision -
308 parliamentarians sitting in the House:
1. discussing the problems they see in this country,
2. putting them in order of priority,
3. determining how they could be avoided/resolved,
4. estimating how much money would be required to do so,
5. adjusting annual revenue and expenditures accordingly,
6. producing and publishing the requisite x-year plan, and
7. getting on with the above without fear of or favour to anyone.
Call it “The Just Society”, “A chicken in every pot”, “Peace, order and good government”, “Freedom and prosperity for all”, or anything you want to that might serve as an appealing advertising slogan, but do it.
I know, it’s pipedream, not a vision. The reality is that all parties will present the advertising slogan as the vision and ignore any real content, like JFK’s new order, LBJ’s great society (although the SOB did try), Trudeau’s just society, Mulroney’s don’t remember what, Chretien’s good government, Bush’s new American century, and Harper’s open and accountable government.
Just remember that actions speak louder than words.
By Harry S on 01.25.08 4:08 pm
I too was diasappointed with the Liberals, specifically with Paul Martin, and was happy to see a conservative minority, because I also thought that Parliament Hill needed to be purged of corruption and partisanship, etc.
Today, as I think of how many times Mr. Harper has sacrificed integrity for political expedience I feel suddenly disappointed, too. Add to that my feeling of disgust with his style of partisan politics, his gagging of CPC MPs AND the realization that the direction he is taking Canada is not where I want Canada to go, I am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I, unlike you, do not disfavour Mr. Dion and the current Liberal Party members that much. Well there’s a few I don’t like, but I feel that under Mr. Dion, the Liberal Party can create unity again. I believe that with good political strategy and communications, and a bit of luck, the Liberal Party can become the party to lead Canada and Canadians back to prosperity and good health at home and on the world stage.
Hey, and now I’m going skating on the Rideau. Nice talking with ya, Harry.
-R
“Canada, to its disfavor, has evolved a presidential style of government. People vote for leaders, not MPs, and yet it’s the name of an MP on the ballot.”
Ahh Garth, there you strike into the heart of why we are ambivalent about an election, under the current system we can vote for the best local man to represent us but that is not necessarily the best part or platform (also known as pre-election lies) or the third choice of which “leader” is the best mouthpiece. There is something wrong in a system that has evolved to where we elect a government on our (and the less than “objective” media’s) idea of how the “leader” presents himself, when we should be electing a series of local representatives who although affiliated with a party are supposed to be representing US. When we then consider that the party “spin doctors”, “advisors” and party “faithful” hold more sway over the day to day actions of the government than the MP’s that we elected is it any wonder that we fell we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t!
As I have said before in this forum we must try and protect and enhance the PROCESS if we are to ever get our population to become “engaged” with the governance of this great country. Right now we (or more particularly I) are at a loss as to who to vote for in order to protect our democracy and sovereignty whist still enhancing our economy and society.
One thing is clear the current government has little regard for these things, it seems its much more important to be “right” than cooperative and effective, trouble is I am not sure any other established partys outlook is much different. It’s a tough act we know, but so far I have seen no one party or individual that is up to the task which is why you all (MP,s and partys) better get your act together work TOGETHER and start putting our Country first, the Voters second and your Party affiliation dead last!
Let us get rid of this partisan bias both here and in parliament and start debating the ISSUES not the party or the individual. But I am still voting ABC based upon actions taken in parliament since being in power!
PS. I too am dreaming Herbs pipe dream!
A SONG BY HARRY A$$ AND THE PIMPS …
SPIN … SPIN … SPIN … SPIN …
http://www.thestar.com/article/297383
Leadership approach laid bare
Derek Burney – a former chief-of-staff to Brian Mulroney – and Paul Tellier, once the country’s top civil servant, would never be described as media groupies. Yet their signatures are on the unanimous Manley report. Their alarm at Harper’s approach reflects what they have been hearing within their own insiders’ networks. What started off as a media irritant has evolved into a governance hindrance that inspires concern at every level of Canada’s public life.
Globe & Mail—Friday, January 25, 2008
•Forces kept Ottawa in the dark on halting detainee transfers
•Manley panel not told of change to detainee policy
•Canada quietly halts prisoner transfers
•Government can’t be trusted, lawyers argue
•Tories assailed for secretive communications strategy
•Globe editorial: The fog that hangs over the detainees
http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20080125/wharperafghan0125/buckler_1882.jpg
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080125.wharperafghan0125/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
PM’s spokeswoman backtracks on detainees
and Harper’s open and accountable government.
Just remember that actions speak louder than words.
By Herb on 01.25.08 4:23 pm
His open and accountable … is nothing but SPIN
They never call back again and is easier then telling them to remove my number from their calling lists.
By Marc on 01.25.08 4:12 pm
Do Not Call legislation received assent in November ‘05 … Won’t be implemented until September ‘08, administered by Bell. Where has the government been? SPIN … SPIN … SPIN
Would parliament work more efficiently if after an election, the next election date that is predetermined was respected by all? Would there be pros and cons regarding respected set election dates? If so what would they be? Just my 2 cents on how parliament could work better for a common goal, but have heard that set election dates give too much power to the leaders of the parties in power. U.S. style works for democracy in my opinion and they have had set election dates for some time now.
Chretien’s good government….
By Herb on 01.25.08 4:23 pm
Herbie, thanks for the laugh – needed that one today.
By D Halfkenny on 01.25.08 12:11 pm
Many share your sentiments, and the resulting apathy and anger towards politics and politicians as a whole has its roots in the areas you outlined.
I was listening to a brief political discussion on CBC radio this aft on my way back from the big city, and the topic of the extraordinary cost of the
American campaigns was being discussed. I thought back to when Reagan was elected Pres and hearing about the astronomical amount of money that had been poured into his campaign in the final months. The consensus was that the Repub’s had bought the vote via massive advertising etc. I don’t remember the exact figures, only that it was grossly disproportionate to the amounts available to the Democratic candidate.
It got me thinking about the way campaigns and the political process evolves. To put it in simple form, when people spend money, they want a return. Small money, small return. Big money, big return. Consequently those with the big bucks to contribute, win and become master and commander.
When one looks at it this way, it is easy to understand why average citizens have no say. Although, we finance the country in every aspect really. We even fund the agents of the big contributors and via grants, contracts etc., the contributors as well. The big contributors get the big rewards, which in turn are supposed to trickle down to benefit the people via jobs and opportunity. But first, it must pass through the hands of the Corporate entities, financiers and king makers. They all get their due, one way or another.
This makes me think the best way to shake the order of things, is to redesign the system entirely, from one based on who can accumulate the most capital, and thus favors to be repaid, to one that focuses on the input of average Canadians. This system is archaic, and not democratic.
A system that does not require major financial backers just to get you on the nominating convention floor, let alone actually into the office. Something along the lines of anyone with the desire and interest could offer to run for a given party or as an independent. Forms could be obtained through gov offices and arranged by geographical areas and population. Once finalized, the list of potential candidates could then be circulated as a mass mail out.
Actual polling could be done locally, and when the results are in, the candidates with say, the top 10% of votes would then run on a final ballot for the larger region / constituency. Another important aspect of this concept would be how campaigns can be run, and very strict rules concerning campaign expenditures. Campaigning should be limited to mail outs, signs and a predetermined number of media advertising allotments, which should all be done in a predetermined format. NO ADS, SIGNS ETC. BIGGER THAN ANYONE ELSE’S. Some local and regional media type debates should also be included.
An approach of this nature would wrestle control of the political system from the hands of multi millionaires and billionaires and put it where it should be, in the hands of the People.
I believe this would bring about more diverse representation, more accountability and more flexibility for all elected representatives.
Harry S
Thanks for a lucid post – I won’t disagree with you that as things stand right now Dion is looking like a busted flush – I had high hopes that he would team up with kennedy and make a team as worthy as Balwin and Lafontaine – but it doesn’t look like that’s in the cards.
I still fear the present administration’s hidden agenda though – they haven’t been very honest about their dishonesty. I would have welcomed a CPC victory in the last election if they had had a different leader.
It all comes back to the fact that the result of our present party system is that we elect a defacto dictator and a powerless house – the potential for tyranny is just too great, and one day we will have to deal with a tyrant. Dealing with that is a lot more untidy than cleaning up after ’small town cheap’ larceny.
By Rob Wiebe on 01.25.08 4:47 pm
I too was diasappointed with the Liberals, specifically with Paul Martin, and was happy to see a conservative minority, because I also thought that Parliament Hill needed to be purged of corruption and partisanship, etc.
Well Rob … with you apparently living in Ottawa, do you see the corruption ousted from the civil service bloated with Liberal appointees? Yes, Rob, I believe the Ottawa civil service is one of the roots of corruption in Canada, and only a majority Conservative government can purge the civil service of it’s porkbelly existence.
……………………..
Today, as I think of how many times Mr. Harper has sacrificed integrity for political expedience I feel suddenly disappointed, too. Add to that my feeling of disgust with his style of partisan politics, his gagging of CPC MPs AND the realization that the direction he is taking Canada is not where I want Canada to go, I am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
So you tolerated 13 years of Liberal corruption right under your nose in Ottawa, and in 24 short months of a difficult minority government you have determined that Harper is not for you!! Now you are willing to give Dion and the still corrupt Liberals your benefit of the doubt. Well that tells us about your partisanship.
…………………….
I, unlike you, do not disfavour Mr. Dion and the current Liberal Party members that much. Well there’s a few I don’t like, but I feel that under Mr. Dion, the Liberal Party can create unity again. I believe that with good political strategy and communications, and a bit of luck, the Liberal Party can become the party to lead Canada and Canadians back to prosperity and good health at home and on the world stage.
So you don’t ‘disfavour’ Mr. Dion and you are in the 10-15% of Canadians who agree with you. The Dion Liberals will need more than a ‘bit of luck’ to again trick Canadians into following them back into the Liberal cesspool. Most Canadians(70%) do not want to go back, and that is an undeniable fact.
……………………..
Hey, and now I’m going skating on the Rideau. Nice talking with ya, Harry.
Don’t fall … again … let’s talk some more ….
Stephyane Dion and Ignatieff were told about the temporary cessation of handing over Taliban war mongers to the Afghans last week. It was clasdsified as Top Secret and they were sworn to NEVER disclose this because the military considered disclosure would put our soldiers and the mission at risk. Not to mention inflaming the insurgents against the Karzai government.
The Manley panel said they were NOT told and this top secret information was not needed for their report.
So now everyone is in a kerfuffle because the Harper government did not disclose TOP SECRET information and terrorist huggers like Amnesity International culled this top secret info in a court case and made it public.
So – the big question: Should the PM and Ministers have disclosed Top Secret military information. Did WE really need to know something that would put our soldiers at risk?.
“Dion must go … no ifs, ands or buts ….!!!!” –By Harry S
Unless Dion is willing to butt out!
By Charles Oxley on 01.24.08 9:39 pm
Well, Charles, my mother and my father (and I am sure most of their friends) would differ. They were, like many who immigrated to Canada after the WWII, were very thankful that Canada did not have a peace keeping only policy. For they were in the German work camps and suffered greatly!
By Catherine on 01.25.08 4:42 am
————————————————————————-
Your point of view, Catherine and you are entitled to it.
Dad also served in WWII, but has never spoken about it. The only thing I know of (a friend of his told me years ago) was that he was right next to an ammo dump when it went off, and he saw a good number of friends blown to kingdom come.
Why? Because a nuthead decided to invade a whole bunch of countries. He didn’t have the guts to take responsibility for his actions; he committed suicide, and let others take the rap.
At least Sadaam did stand up in a kangaroo court, set up by a hypocritical liar and his appointed gang of cronies. Whether it was the real Sadaam is another matter.
Whatever happened to those WMD that Powell, Rice and Rumsfeld kept saying Iraq had? I notice that Cheney’s interest in this is Halliburton, which has enormous and continual profits.
Plain and simple, they are all a bunch of war-loving, money-grabbing tinpot despots; Harper is of the same stripe.
If ever a special place in hell was reserved for them (as well as Hitler and others), now is a good time for them to leave this planet.
For all their faults, Trudeau, Mulroney and Chretien / Martin never put Canadian forces in unnecessary trouble. Areas which have ongoing conflicts and violence? Yes, but not as being the aggressors, simply trying to keep two sides apart. Harper takes the opposing view, and this is now a part of his legacy.
You go your way in your life, Catherine, and I’ll go mine.
Ok, you kissed my ass earlier, By Harry S on 01.24.08 11:58 pm… you can get back on your feet (if you like but if you don’t want to, by all means, continue to kiss my ass!) (chuckles)
Are you suggesting this vision is inadequate and should be revised? What do you see wrong with it ??
By Harry S on 01.25.08 1:06 pm
You asked a good question, Harry. whats wrong with it…
Firstly, its vague. There’s no detail. Its like sending someone on a direction without a compass or idea of what they will come across. It comes across as PR and not much more. Any party could put out the same words. It needs detail to give it the teeth people want to weep and gnash over.
Secondly, it lacks the economic plan, and thats major. All visions cost money. Where will it come from?
Thirdly… Maggie posted a good entry of mine which was worth circulating to be frank, but it was meant for campaign purposes only. The context of the post was, “what I would do if I was a senior campaign planner.” Did you somehow confuse this with what happens after the election is won?
The glaring reality of it is that for the most part, the Liberal party’s best “vision” is to do the opposite of what Harper has done! Be transparent! Open! Debate! Be flexible! Tell me… what is so flexible about jacking spending and cutting taxes right at the peak of an economy with nowhere to go but down? I’ve got news for you. The good ol’ days are over. We just haven’t gotten the numbers yet.
Aside from being the voice of human rights world wide “cause in case you didn’t pick up on it, that was Trudeau’s vision” and no, I didn’t agree with his economic plan. I liked his NEP, but he didn’t encourage enough Alta ownership of resources and blew it with media. But aside from this, what a vision!! Humanitarian causes and a model to follow… energy owership… People forget that we were among the 10 contributers to 3rd world nations, in the world, Harry. For decades. When ugliness appeared, “WE WERE THERE”.
But visions cost money. They get expensive. It costs money to send a man on the moon, or to champion world peace, or save the environment from global catastrophe. Visions simply don’t come cheap.
To quote Garth:
“Maybe it’s finding a way to be energy independent in ten years, or paying off our national debt or accomplishing something wonderful for the environment. We need it now. A big vision.”
And Garth is right! But it has to be a vision now that can pay for itself and when one thinks about it, in face of global warming, of falling empires scrambling to hold onto what made them a power holding onto already dated conventional oil and energy… this vision will require more than just a shot at the dark side of the moon.
We are staring the face of Peak oil and if any readers don’t know what that is, I suggest they google, they youtube, they wiki and find out what that is because our way of doing things, our way of transport, of heating homes, of generating power must change and dramatically cause if it doesn’t, Harry, its what world wars are made of. Everything runs on conventional energy. Plastics…
I shouldn’t have to say it. Over consumption, over population, overdevelopment, corporatism, globalization, declining environments… and they all have 3 common denominators, Harry.
1) The human construct of money
2) Ownership (broken down into 3 ideals, singular or shared: nation/state, God, individual)
3) Shared macro environments.
So here is the vision of which, by the way, it should seem obvious that the man you so love to critique is not just well respected… honest… and a proven patriot lover of this nation and planet, but a man who knows how to delegate authority?
There isn’t one plan that will ever succeed if it can’t adapt to changing environments (like the GST cut to a coming global downturn, that was dullard slow) lest we suffer the fate of the dinousaur, a plan that most importantly, embraces a group effort because the vision I am about to speak of is not just top down but bottom up and any great leader must know this.
And what is this vision? What is this plan I want so badly for Dion to embrace? The plan he hinted so strongly with with his green scarf at the Lib leadership convention? The plan that can pay for itself? The plan that might just save the world without ever being recognized as such? Because the world requires it, Harry. The world requires energy sustainability in such a big big way…
WE, THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA, HAVE A VISION. LIKE MARTIN LUTHORS DREAM TO SEE ALL WORLD CITIZENS AS HOLDING THEMSELVES EQUAL AND UNITED THROUGH PEACE, LOVE AND GOOD WILL, THE SUBSTANCE OF WHICH ALL FREEDOM IS MADE OF, THAT WHICH HAS NO SHACKLES FROM BROKEN LAWS OF NATURE OR MAN… WE HAVE A VISION TO HEAL THIS PLANET WITH THE TASK OF BECOMING ENERGY EFFICIENT WITH GREEN TECHNOLOGY WITHIN 10 YEARS AND SHARE THESE TECHNOLOGIES WITH THE WORLD TO ENSURE A FUTURE FOR OUR SHARED, WORLD ENVIRONMENTS.
Now, I’ve brainstormed on this site about a week ago and the rest (outside of a leadership quality summary) is just a cut and paste, but it sums things up with greater detail. I can’t do the budgets, the numbers, because the realities of it are that the feds can only do so much. We must rely on but at the same time, influence market initiatives and personal intitiatives to see this vision through.
Freedom isn’t just top down. It begins as well with the bottom up. Its more than a mere unattainable ideal, but is, in reality, a way of life! Freedom, I assure you all, can only come through self control (that freedom concept of being able to do whatever one wants, or the ability to try anything once, the cemetary if full of those who believed such fallacies), but the micro environment is just the half of it. Sooner or later, everyone must contribute to the macro and if we haven’t caught on by now, we are doing just that to begin with… but without thought? Direction? Goals? A plan? Freedom, I assure you all, not only comes from self control, but to set free, the imprisioned will of others.
So take it. Take the brainstorm you are about to read. And hats off to others who have done the same, looking for what is best for the world, never mind themselves…
We know that with peak oil, peak coal and natural gas, wasteful consumption and growing populations worldwide along with nations like China and India industrializing, that something has to give. An empirical driven war for Iraqi and Iranian oil won’t help. So what will work? What are the solutions?
- We can stop deforestation by using building materials that are found onsite reducing the energy used in shipping and manufacturing. ADOBE homes. Homes built simply with sub soils compressed with hydraulics on site. And they don’t look half bad! Search it online, folks. Familiarize. Encourage cradle to grave materials for home construction, onsite building supplies to reduce the costs of shipping and energy consumption, as well as slow deforestation. These homes will outlast wooden homes, are far cheaper to build, and are an energy saver like no other considering the alternative resources to build and energy consumption related in construction, as well as as energy density that fits well with geo thermal loop and heat to water to air conventional heating… far more efficient and solar heating is so viable. We can now build an green energy efficient home for the same cost as an ordinary bungalow that’s being built now. We just don’t know it. The feds have to get the facts out, and heavily look into geothermal loop grants for existing and future homes.
- We can introduce energy efficiency measures to save on electricity in every way imaginable by focusing on efficiency in appliances, lighting and the use of timers for heating car block heaters, christmas lights, the works. Yes, it will take regulations. Yes, it will take years and co-operation with manufacturing giants such as china to get it done. Its the little things, folks. Its top down with government policy sure, but its also bottom up. We as individuals simply must do our share.
- We need government policy that introduces one of two things. A crown corporation that competes where private industry cannot in two areas. Mass geothermal, and solar refractive light. For those who aren’t sure what refractive light is, its magnified light with single, double or triple lenses and mirrors that concentrates the suns energy to heat to steam to power. The drawback to this, of course, is that with the FTA agreement Mulroney introduced in the 80’s, crown corps cannot be started without economical penalties. I say do it anyways. Pay the penalties if FTA can’t be renegotiated. But in a time when U.S. currcies are flirting with dropping below the loonie, FTA’s will be renegotiated. Thats in the pipe, folks. Guaranteed! And not just Canada that needs this technology, but the world. Some things simply aren’t about the money but rather, the result.
- Further to a new NEP, we need to seriously look at subsidies for geothermal loops in the basements of all dwellings in this nation, along with the conversion of heat to water to air furnaces as opposed to so called energy efficient heat to air furnaces most homes use and we need to look at it now. Heat to water to air is by far, more efficient. Its a shame that consumers aren’t made aware of the massive savings by doing so. Water is so unique in holding energy… exploit it!
- We need to introduce tech that allows the private generation of electricity of hydro for residential needs across this nation and we need it now.
- We need to demand greater energy efficiency in cars and trucks, mandating a 35 mile to the gallon average from manufacturers, or we won’t allow the imports of their autos and trucks. Immediately!!! The savings in healthcare alone… we need to start telling auto manufaturers what to build, not let the oil companies make government and manufacturing decisions as it has been. The corruption has to stop.
- We need to look at a refractive light tech crown corp, as well as a geothermal crown with a plan to develope the tech and spin 50% of it off into the markets with a ten to twenty year plan. If mass scale pilots work with geothermal alone, the power generated across the pac rim alone will be enough to solve our electrical needs world wide and if enough juice can be generated, impliment a plan to have all transportation run on electricity. I believe the potential exists to power all electrical needs on the pac rim.
- We need to harness energy in every way imaginable. In Newfoundland, exploit the tides with tidal generation. In the prairies, exploit the wind and sun. In the mountains, exploit the runoff with pipes catching the runoff drops to run pressure driven turbines, never mind dams. We are missing out on a further 40% electric generation potential by not doing so. I’ve worked it out! (was a pet project 3 years ago) With solar, exploit it everywhere, but seriously look at refractive light above all other means. Its a cheap and hugely efficient form of heat and with water’s capability of storing energy temps as well as steam driven power, it doesn’t take much imagination from there. Steam has made inroads with 40% efficiency. Exploit it on all scales big and small!!!
- Where conventional energy used for electricity is still needed or viable, we need to further increase its efficiency. We are losing on average 2/3rds of the heat from loss in turbines with big power generation, and a further two thirds of energy loss from the transport of raw power through power lines. Plants need to be moved or built as close to populations and electrical consumption as possible, as well as be revamped for much greater efficiency than they have now. As it is, we are losing close to 90% of the energy we produce with the conversion of heat to power and transportation of power itself. Folks, its a loser and it has to stop!!! WE NEED TO REGULATE FOR GREATER EFFICIENCY. PERIOD!!! Enough of this sorry assed waste and if regulations get to costly, corporations should be subsidized to make the move with a long term plan to phase out the use of conventional energy and allow existing energy companies to buy into green energy crowns over time to wipe out shareholder fears and keep market share value intact. Continued reliance of conventional energy is what is taking nations down with the U.S. as a primary example. Its happening as we speak. Enough corporate brainwashing that money is in consumption. There’s money in efficiency, folks!!! Lets get with it!
- Insurance companies can do their share. Cheaper insurance with homes made of earth instead of wood. We can build homes that don’t burn, now. Cheaper car and truck insurance with veichles that have better mileage. We need government incentives to promote this to initially occur and if we can’t bribe insurance corps to do it, force them through legislation and have it priced in to offset any losses. (shouldn’t be hard for the commercial crowns that already exist) Pass wasteful consumption onto the consumer through insurance.
- We need to help our farmers through tax breaks or grants to help farmers devlope their own bio fuels on site. (thats a big one, folks, if there’s a gas or diesel crunch, people still need to eat!) I noted Virginia Simpson (love her posts, by the way) critiqued such an initiative, but the reality is that earth moving equipment and tractors can’t be run on anything but piston power for now, likely for the next 30 to 40 years. The same goes with planes (trains… thats another story) To eliminate the need to transport conventional fuels, biofuels can be manufactured by farms onsite and farmers should be encouraged to grow a percentage of their crops specifically for biofuel. There are misconceptions out there in terms of the energy input to produce biofuels. Its viability begins with growing the right crops for maximum energy and consuming energy on site where needed.
The bottom line with diesel consumption is this. We should have a plan that restricts diesel consumption in the long term to heavy payload transport where it is impossible to take heavy payload’s off the grid.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/01/18/biofuels-layzell.html
- We need to look at remote area’s like site C in BC for generating clean power through hydro for the manufacturing of Hydrogen. We need to study the feisability of infrastructure changes and associated budget costs to see how viable a conversion to hyrdogen really is, compared to electrical transport. Places like BC are full of isolated area’s where hydrogen can be manufactured with electricity that can be created in abundance onsite with fresh water runoff and generated power to produce hydrogen, but is too small scale to produce power due to the amounts of electricity generation combined with too high of an expense to transport electricity through lines and thus, isn’t viable. Elevations need to seriously be looked at with hydrogen generated potential, as global warming is for real.
Have I missed anything? Yes! WE NEED TO DEMAND THIS FROM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND MAKE IT A TOP ISSUE IN EVERY ELECTION TO COME AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT. Its not just top down, but bottom up, folks. It starts with the consumer and always begins with a paradigm shift in awareness. Don’t ever forget it.
And one last thing. What does it take to be a leader, truly? We have a current leader who rules with an authoritarian, controlling attitude that is reflected through its cabinet. All must go through the PMO to the point where all decisions are made by the PMO. There is no functional plan to run a country that should channel all ideas and all decisions to just one man. We are seeing the failures of this government precisely due to such a “brand” of leadership. And that vision isn’t overly shiny concerning the environment, economic protection of Canadian industry, or world affairs. Harper is running this country like a governor runs a U.S. state and I don’t think its a far reach to suggest that this is precisely how he percieves it!
What do I think of Dion? His English is bad, but so is the English of half this nation. Where does he accel over Harper? Try a love for his country. Try a man who is honest and worthy of respect. Try a man who knows he can’t do it alone. For within the leadership debate of the Liberal party, was born a comprimise. And I suggest to you all, that when there is no comprimise, eventually, only isolation is the effect. An uncomprimising leader stands alone. Ask God why God forgives. And if God talk is too much for you, ask yourself is forgiveness has merit, for forgiveness is that which comprimise is built. Taking faults with the pros is what makes relationships last. And don’t think for one second as you look at yourselves in the mirror you see perfection.
I say give Dion the respect and ability to lead that he deserves. Its not the “what” that defines a leader. Its the “who”. An english white man’s middle age with a background in institutionalized economics means nothing to me. Does that leader have a soul to go with that leaders brain? Is that leader aware of what it takes to delegate authority, to share the responsibility to get the most out of his/her team? Is that leader aware of the worlds shared environments? You know the answers and they aren’t hidden.
So I say give Dion a chance. You don’t use the word “Kyoto” with love 100 times a day for no reason (its the name of his dog). You don’t wear green on your sleeve by accident. And you don’t double the size of national parks in Canada on a whim. Dions greatest asset is the fact that he does listen, he does love our nation, he embraces strong federalism of which the expansive size of this nation needs to remain strong, and he wants whats best for the environment. He has a soul! And I have to tell you all, with all I have read in terms of what Harper feels… there is no love for this nation and its past visionaries. To Harper, were just another U.S. state.
U.S. style works for democracy in my opinion and they have had set election dates for some time now.
By Marc on 01.25.08 5:16 pm
How? You have two parties controlled by two party machines. You have elections every two years so that the representatives spend all their time in election mode raising money from the same interests that control the political agenda. They have fewer choices and the big machines and big money are even more pervasive.
By William Laidlaw on 01.25.08 5:46 pm
Harry S
Thanks for a lucid post – I won’t disagree with you that as things stand right now Dion is looking like a busted flush – I had high hopes that he would team up with kennedy and make a team as worthy as Balwin and Lafontaine – but it doesn’t look like that’s in the cards.
I still fear the present administration’s hidden agenda though – they haven’t been very honest about their dishonesty. I would have welcomed a CPC victory in the last election if they had had a different leader.
It all comes back to the fact that the result of our present party system is that we elect a defacto dictator and a powerless house – the potential for tyranny is just too great, and one day we will have to deal with a tyrant. Dealing with that is a lot more untidy than cleaning up after ’small town cheap’ larceny.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………
William … let’s get real here …. The Harper minority government has to protect itself from the patently obvious Liberal MSM ready to pounce on any slip and exploding it into a ‘major’ government gaff. Most of the MSM are Liberal toady’s and the Harper government is forced into protecting themselves from those Liberal goebbelian propagandists.
What puzzles me is why you so quickly reject Stephen Harper, yet you tolerated the Chretien-Martin mafia that ruled Canada like a fiefdom, stealing taxpayer’s money hand over brown envelope, and creating a bloated central government apparatus sucking away taxpayer’s money for services of no value. Harper and the Conservatives represent a cleansing of the Ottawa Beast filled with Liberal appointees and hacks, and sabotaging the minority government at every opportunity.
If you want Canadians to go back and revert to the Liberal dynastic dictatorship, Canada won’t be a country worth living in … because the old corruption is still lurking in the Liberal ranks. Only a 4 year majority Harper Conservative government will rescue Canada from the remnants of it’s past Liberal dictatorship that you failed to recognize.
Canadians are at a political crossroads, and perhaps we shall see if Canadians want to go forward with Harper or backwards with Dion. My bet is on Harper and the good sense of Canadians.
Well, I just read the article covering Baird’s visit to Muskoka last WQednesday in Huntsville. The Weekender (sorry it is not online yet) quotes Baird as stating
We can’t take responsibility for the mistakes, but I think Canadians and particularly young people, the next generation, expect us to take responsibility for the future and clean up the mess that we4′ve inherited
Well, that is refreshing! Albeit, while Barid did not directly blame the Liberals, the inflection is still there.
He goes on to state I think Canadians are somewhat sick (of) when it comes toto governments of all stripes around the country, (that) they’re not going to judge any politician by the rhetoric they use but by the actions they take, and that’s the standard we welcome
Well, on that I certainly have to agree. Now, I wonder, do John Baird and Steven Harper actually comprehend what Barid said?
Baird went on the claim that they have a plan that is ‘front loading, meaning tmuch of the required cuts would come in 6% increments the first three years, dropping to 2% annually after that.’
Wow, are you as impressed as I am?
Oh, and his plan is, of course, contogent on China, India, and the U.S. agreeing to it and ‘getting on board.’
Yes, Canada, we have ‘leadership in John Baird, who has to check with the rest of the world before Canada acts, because, after all, we cannot offend any slackers anywhere.
The ‘Shrooms are alive and well in the PMO. Join in…Daily feeding of BS is guaranteed, and that’s a ‘promise from Steven Harper and John Baird’ as they ‘move Canada forward.’
Oh, BTW Johnny, we are Still waiting!‘
By Marc on 01.25.08 5:16 pm
Uh, you might recall that is already in effect barring a major FUBAR by the current government?
The difference is that the government can no longer arbitrarily call an election for their own benefit.
Canada, to its disfavour, has evolved a presidential style of government. People vote for leaders, not MPs, and yet it’s the name of an MP on the ballot.
posted by Garth Turner on 01.24.08
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No it isn’t, Garth … it’s always been like that from 1867 to the present in Canada. Canadians want to hear what the leaders are promising, because the leaders are all-powerful in our British parliamentary system.
Are you suggesting we should adopt an American-style system that promotes the local politicians and then neuter the Prime Minister..?? Do you want to relegate the Prime Minister into some kind of ‘facilitator’ that only mimics what his party members decide ?? If you do, then Dion is your perfect ‘leader’.
Btw …. you have undoubtedly listened and watched PM Harper’s speech celebrating 2 years of Conservative government, to the party faithful and broadcast on TV this afternoon. Wasn’t that a strong and rousing speech that displayed the leadership strengths of Stephen Harper?! Your Liberal colleagues must be wetting their britches as they try to imagine Dion standing on the same stage as Harper during election debates. It’s a no-brainer win for Harper, and you know it too … that’s why you are bemoaning the ‘presidential style’ and that ‘people vote for the leaders’ … all because your Liberals have no leader …. and that is becoming so obvious as time goes by.
Garth, I see you as part of the vanguard that will renew and rebuild the Liberal party into a viable alternative to the Harper Conservatives. You will need at least 4 years of Harper majority government to take the pressure off yourselves, and time to rebuild properly.
Perhaps your Liberals should precipitate another election Canadians don’t really want, and hope for the best … a Harper majority government..!!!
“and now I’m going skating on the Rideau.”
Not the Rideau, Harry, the Canal. The CANAL! We’d hate to lose you this way.
By brain on 01.25.08 6:07 pm
So I say give Dion a chance.
A chance at what ??? Making Kyoto a priority when he was Environment Minister and failed abjectly?
A chance to send Billion$$$ to Liberal friends in China for sham Kyoto Carbon Credits?
Growing into a leader Canadians can look to and be proud of .. and two years later he is a proven dud??
Oh, perhaps you mean Canadians should give him a ‘chance’ at being our prime minister to see if he can do better???
How about this … let’s give Dion the chance to voluntarily vacate the Liberal leadership and be replaced by somebody half-competent and willing to rebuild and renew the wallowing Liberal party??
………..
To Harper, were just another U.S. state.
After all the pile of pedantic poop you posted, the best you can do is stink the forum up with this ludicrous, silly, stupid blurt ???
Shame, brain … shame ….!!!
Harry: I am dumbfounded that you have to ask why the majority of Canadians reject Stephen Harper as a good Prime Minister.
He has many faults– he is deceptive, he has no regard for women, he has no compassion, he envisions Canada as a world military giant with himself at the helm–I do believe he would love to have Hail to the Chief played every time he enters a room.
He is unaccountable, he is not truthful (he often lies by omission), he thinks seniors are a nuisance, he cannot admit mistakes,
That is why women dislike him –we just can’t see him as an honest man.
So, perhaps to get your majority, you will have to find a different leader??
This columnist has a somewhat different viewpoint of the market’s ups and downs.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01242008/business/you_should_be_wary_of_this_market_reboun_412433.htm?page=0
LMF,
“Stephyane (sic) Dion and Ignatieff were told about the temporary cessation of handing over Taliban war mongers to the Afghans last week. It was clasdsified (sic) as Top Secret and they were sworn to NEVER disclose this because the military considered disclosure would put our soldiers and the mission at risk. Not to mention inflaming the insurgents against the Karzai government.” – LMF at 5:57 pm
I am curious about a couple of aspects of your post, LMF. For starters, it’s the first I’ve heard that Dion and Ignatieff were briefed on it last week. I’ll take your word for it.
What bothers me is that this allegedly was treated as TOP SECRET, because “disclosure would put our soldiers and the mission at risk.” I know the Government is taking a similar line. Now, perhaps you can tell me why refusing to turn Taliban prisoners over to the Afghan Government for possible abuse and keeping them in safe custody ourselves would jeopardize our soldiers or the mission. I do believe that the Taliban have a more than nodding acquaintance with the practices of the Afghan Government, so I doubt that our change of policy would inflame them any further. It certainly will piss off the Afghan Government because it is an expression of lack of faith, but it might be salutary because it conveys our serious expectations. So where is the risk to our soldiers or the mission? Seems to me the Taliban would appreciate the Canadian concern for their captured troops. If I remember, the whole point of the Geneva Conventions is the expectation of reciprocity, not unilateral altruism. Would you explain the risk to a dumb old soldier?
If the detainee policy in fact was classified Top Secret, that would be an abuse of the security classification system. I know that it is common practice to hide embarrassing things under security classifications, but Top Secret would be carrying things too far, so I doubt it.
No science in the PM’s ear: Canada dismisses National Science Adviser at its peril
Friday, January 25, 2008 | 08:04 AM ET
By quirks
By Bob McDonald, host of the CBC science radio program Quirks & Quarks.
The one scientist in this country who had direct access to the Prime Minister is being dismissed. Canada’s National Science Adviser, Dr. Arthur Carty, was appointed by former Prime Minister Paul Martin to provide expert advice on the government’s role in matters of science and science policy. Now, less than four years after the position was created, the Harper government feels that it’s no longer necessary.
The National Science Adviser is a voice of reason to the government over actions it should take on issues such as climate change, genetically modified foods, managing fisheries, sustaining the environment – any time the politicians need to be educated on the basic science behind those often controversial issues. Of course, decisions are seldom made for purely scientific reasons; all too often, the interests of industry, special interest groups or a misinformed public will cloud the scientific truth. The Adviser’s job is to provide clarity and perspective.
Dr. Carty is extremely well qualified for this position. He was president of the National Research Council for 10 years and a prominent professor at Waterloo University for 27 years, among other accomplishments.
Eliminating the National Science Adviser is the latest in a string of events showing how our current government, at least at the top level, does not seem to be interested in the scientific perspective.
Soon after taking power, the Harper government moved the National Science Adviser position from the Privy Council Office down to Industry Canada, where Dr. Carty reports to the Minister there instead of directly to the PM. Following that, our Prime Minister embarrassed the country internationally by backing out of the Kyoto Accord and stonewalling the climate change discussions in Bali.
Science, in its purest form, seeks the truth. When a scientific paper is published, it’s not expressing an opinion, it’s showing the results of careful measurements, data gathering, hypothesizing, experimentation, validation by peer review, all in an effort to get the clearest picture of what’s happening in nature. Sure, debate is part of the process, so is skepticism, but that makes the science stronger. You cannot shoot down good science unless you have good alternative scientific evidence to back it up.
Politics, on the other hand, is affected profoundly by opinion. Politicians need to please everyone to gain votes. So, when a scientific study points out a serious problem such as climate change and a solution that requires a hard decision about reducing carbon emissions, the politician must consider the effect of that decision on jobs (votes), industry (financial support), and public opinion (votes).
At the same time, those who feel threatened by a scientific finding, such as polluting industries, will lobby the government with their own experts who try to dismiss or cast doubt on the original finding. Notice I said dismiss or cast doubt. Industry-hired guns seldom arrive on the scene with their own evidence from experiments they performed and published that counter the mainstream idea. Usually, they’ll say, “I don’t believe it,” which is just an opinion, or they’ll look for small uncertainties in the data and focus on that to cast doubt on the results.
All science involves uncertainties – that’s the way the system works. But it takes a scientific eye to determine whether those uncertainties are significant or not. Without that perspective, a politician hears conflicting views or biased information that clouds the issue and confuses the public.
That’s where the National Science Adviser comes in. He or she is an independent, expert witness whose job is to provide perspective and education to the people at the top where the decisions are made.
Apparently, that’s no longer going to happen in Canada.
- Bob McDonald
So – the big question: Should the PM and Ministers have disclosed Top Secret military information. Did WE really need to know something that would put our soldiers at risk?.
By lmf on 01.25.08 5:57 pm
NATO advised their members that Canada had stopped transferring detainees. German newspaper published this info, so who is who in danger? Really until all true facts are available we should not be accusing anyone of anything. Of course it is going to be necessary for Harper to tell the truth also.
In other pertinent news we find Mulroney has ‘another’ problem. Someone who has EVIDENCE of his schenanigans (Not Shawinagan sp?) in office.
Ex-Mulroney chief of staff to tell MPs about cash
A troubling new allegation about large amounts of cash arriving at 24 Sussex Drive when Brian Mulroney was prime minister will be aired at the Commons ethics committee.
The Green Party evaluates Stelmach’s ‘Green Plan’
Stelmach’s ‘green’ plan
So Ed Stelmach, premier of Alberta, has trotted out his province’s ‘green’ plan to freeze increases of greehouse gases (GHG) by 2020 and reduce them by 14% by 2050. Stephen Harper’s government’s plan calls for a 60% reduction in GHGs in the same timeframe (both plans being based on 2005 levels which in itself is pulling the wool over Canadian eyes), a plan that was widely ridiculed within and outside of Canada.
Essentially, Stelmach has stated that his government in Alberta has committed to do virtually nothing between now and 2050 and if the government of Canada’s plan is going to be met, the rest of the country will have to pick up his government’s slack.
Considering that Stelmach has put a big wrench in Harper’s climate change plan, Environment Minister John Baird doesn’t seem too upset, he welcomes Stelmach’s plan. Naturally, energy companies are delighted, Michael Smith, director of environment for energy company Epcor says “It’s music to our ears”. Well, of course it would be as it’s sure made his job a lot easier for the next 42 years. Especially since they’ve obviously put a lot of work into writing Stelmach’s plan for him and could use the break.
Luckily Stelmach’s plan has come on the eve of a provincial election, giving the people of Alberta the opportunity to tell Stelmach what they think of his climate change plans and vote while his plans are still fresh in his mind.
And lastly, our Green Provincial Candidate, Matt Richter, here in the Parry Sound-Muskoka riding states (per the District Weekender) The idea of a carbon tax is not very appealing if it is used as an additional tax.
The Green Party recognizes that, and has always advocated fro a ‘Green Tax Shift.’ The principle is simple: raise taxes on polluting fossil fuels and reduce taxes on incomes and business profits,’
Now, that is a plan with real ‘VISION!’
And the Greens Greens urge Conservatives to close remaining citizenship loopholes
“The Green Party has been calling on Prime Minister Harper to close these loopholes for nearly a year and we are pleased the government has finally acted,” said Green Party leader Elizabeth May. “However, the legislation fails to solve the problem for all lost Canadians and the Green Party is calling on Mr. Harper to expand the legislation to close all remaining loopholes.”
Last year, the House Committee on Citizenship and Immigration reported that a series of obscure and archaic clauses in the Citizenship Act had caused tens of thousands of Canadians had been stripped of citizenship for failing to fill out a form. Most of these lost Canadians were not even aware their citizenship had been revoked until they applied for passports. Many of those affected were children of war brides, children born abroad to Canadian parents and children from border towns who were born in US hospitals.
But, as we all know, Steve (akak Caesar Disgustus) is too busy slamming the Liberals to be interested in ‘action’ that accomplishes something of real importance.
Even when REAL leadership speaks, Harper turns a deaf ear! We are Still waiting for real accomplishment form this eternal election mode goobernment!
“Canadians are at a political crossroads, and perhaps we shall see if Canadians want to go forward with Harper or backwards with Dion. My bet is on Harper and the good sense of Canadians.” –By Harry S
My bet is on the common sense of the common people.
We need leadership that is bold enough to face an election, and let the people decide.
My bet is on
Harper andthe good sense of Canadians.By Harry S on 01.25.08 6:10 pm
So is mine Harry, So is mine!
re:Brain 6:07pm
You just expressed my thoughts for years now. It was eerie reading it becuase it was like reading my own thoughts! Just to expand on it a bit I agree the first thing that needs to go are those silly so called free trade agreements because until we pry ourselves loose from the ropes of the big corporations we can’t do anything. Every provence is blessed with something that can be used to produce green power. If the goal is to replace all existing power sources with green sources then what if the federal government agreed to buy all surplus production. This would create a lucrative source of steady income for any provence that jumps in. At first the excess could be sold to provences that haven’t reached their potential. Of course this requires an East-West CANADIAN power grid not mixed into the U.S. one like now. Once Canada’s needs are met the feds could sell all excess power to the states. Potentialy some or all provences could replace many of their taxes with this revenue. As you know building dams for power is one of the worst environmental disasters but if as you suggest we use some form of instream generaters the amount of power we can produce is endless. Imagine 10,000 instream generators in the saint lawrence alone producing power 24/365!
Also what if the feds legislated that all new homes have to be heated by some source other that coal, oil or gas.
Garth is looking for a national vision and I think this one has the most potential.
I believe this would bring about more diverse representation, more accountability and more flexibility for all elected representatives.
By Greg on 01.25.08 5:43 pm
Very well stated, and I agree. That had a lot of thought in it Greg. Well done!
Every day that the Official Opposition leadership procrastinates, wavers, and hesitates, tne weaker they become in the minds of the common people, and the more their hopes and expectations for a confident, bold and assertive “government in waiting” is eroded and undermined, making it ever more likely that they will look elsewhere for answers.
Peak oil on youtube. Its time to open our eyes to the coming realities of the end of a conventional energy industrial driven age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaTIo1QTJis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caDpfAXBEro&feature=related
And a correction to the previous post, it should read
FROM BROKEN LAWS OF NATURE AND GOD… instead of NATURE OR MAN…
U.S. style works for democracy in my opinion and they have had set election dates for some time now.
By Marc on 01.25.08 5:16 pm
Marc, I am shocked you made that statement. I am sorry Sir, but that could not more inaccurate. The U.S. political system is corrupt beyond imagination to sentient people. I know First Hand being from there.
Americans have been campaigning and clamoring for the option of ‘None of The Above’ and a ‘No Confidence Vote’ for decades. Will the so-called ‘lawmakers’ allow those options? HELL NO!
Americans are stuck with horridily incompetent government for 4 very long years at a time. Yes, they do alternate the Congressional and Senatorial elections, but that used to work. It no longer does, and has not for most of my life. The Founding Fathers had a good concept in mind ‘That citizens would be selected based on the popular vote of their constiuents to represent them for a term, and then return to civilian life, having served their country for a brief time.’
Nowadays, it is a career position unless one truly screws up. That is where democracy was slaughtered. Who did it:? The lawmakers who exempted themselves from the laws of the land by passing new laws to protect their own interests. A prime example is the law that exempt Members of Congress from the very laws they write and which the masses much abide by.
The only recourse Americans have is to get the Senate to impeach the President. Hell will freeze over before the President’s party will uphold the Constitution and throw the Bum out!
Recall, if you will please, Nixon and Clinton. A dichotomy of partisan political BS. Nixon deserved to be canned based on LAW. Clinton, while a fool extraordinare for his sexual actions in the White House, did NOT violate the law, except if the cigar he used on Monica was Cuban. That is a Federal offense in the U.S. He was attacked on ‘moral grounds’, and the time was one of people like Jerry Falwell, who gave America ‘The Moral Majority’ which, as the bumper stick said ‘Is neither!’
When we reflect to the time of Hamarambi, and the concepts of Magna Carta, we should take pause and remember that it is the LAW, not the emotions that are to govern a nation. To do otherwise will reduce a nation to the likes of Iraq and Afghanistan.
We still have not perfected the concept of selecting the ‘lawmakers!’ WE need to revise the proceedure asap. My own interim answer is to have the GG preside over Parliament. She at least has a sharp mind, an open heart, and class. I cannot say that for the MP’s as a whole. Garth has more than 10 of the others combined.
In short, IMHO, we do NOT need or want an American style system in Canada. Ask yourself this question. ‘Why have more than 500,000 Americans immigrated to Canada?’ My answer would be ‘Because Canada represents real American values more than the U.S does in its recent history.
Shocking?
Here’s the “vison” that our founding fathers had for Canada:
Peace, Order and Good Government.
I think we have that now…knock on wood.
Harper is proven to be a liar once again.
PMO ‘lied’ about Afghan prisoner transfers: Dion
Updated Fri. Jan. 25 2008 8:54 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he doesn’t believe that the Conservative government did not know Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan had stopped transferring prisoners to Afghan authorities in early November
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080125/detainees_folo_080125/20080125?hub=TopStories
By brain on 01.25.08 6:07 pm
Bravo! Your “handle” is well chosen.
By Greg on 01.25.08 5:43 pm
Very well stated, and I agree. That had a lot of thought in it Greg. Well done!
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 8:18 pm
Ditto, Bill.
There are some great ideas on here lately…it gives me hope.
Funny – I’ve been thinking much the same thing. I even wrote a somewhat rambling essay on the subject of inspirational leaders on my blog a few days ago. Feel free to wander over and let me know what you think (not you, Harry – I already KNOW what you’ll think!).
And BTW – thanks, Maggie, for that piece from Quirks & Quarks. I think there might be a blog post out of that, too.
By Judy on 01.25.08 7:03 pm
Harry: I am dumbfounded that you have to ask why the majority of Canadians reject Stephen Harper as a good Prime Minister.
He has many faults– he is deceptive, he has no regard for women, he has no compassion, he envisions Canada as a world military giant with himself at the helm–I do believe he would love to have Hail to the Chief played every time he enters a room.
He is unaccountable, he is not truthful (he often lies by omission), he thinks seniors are a nuisance, he cannot admit mistakes,
That is why women dislike him –we just can’t see him as an honest man.
So, perhaps to get your majority, you will have to find a different leader??
……………………………….
You must be greatly disappointed that Dion does not lead the Liberals into an election asap after he became leader, and has sat about on his hands glued to his derriere, letting Harper do his damage to Canada.
I bet Dion craps out again after the next Conservative Budget, and capitulates to Harper, while you faithfully have the hots for impotent Dion.
Some Canadian women are attracted to wimpy men like Dion, while real women identify with strong leader Stephen Harper.
Sounds like he’s got you swimming in testo. — Garth
The Bully on the Hill now has a Red Face, every dictator suffers from the same fate, why should this man be any different. When you do not develop leadership nor practice it yourself the walls soon fall apart. Many besides myself have mentioned this many times. This is just the beginning because dictators have no plan “B” it is always there way or the highway. How does that ode line go…what a tangled web we weave…. hmmm Kelowna, Atlantic Accord, Income Trust, Afghanistan, Accountabilty, and yes Transparity.
Just in case y’all are interested over 550 post on the G&M about this, and these people have been brutle on Steve. We are the kind fokes on his latest lie.
‘Why have more than 500,000 Americans immigrated to Canada?’ My answer would be ‘Because Canada represents real American values more than the U.S does in its recent history.
Shocking?
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 8:40 pm
Hi Bill, you may want to check your stats on U.S. immigration to Canada. We are still running a deficit to the U.S. on immigration of about 30K people yearly. They did hit an all time high of just over 10K people in one year.
Have a nice evening. Leasa
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/243555
By keith phibbs on 01.25.08 8:51 pm
harper a liar? That probability does exist, and CRAP will very shortly pay the price — they will be GONE!
————————————————————–
dubya’s bailout is a bandaid solution, like taking candies from a baby. Obviously it won’t work.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_stimulus_may_be_too_late_despite_01252008.html
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 8:18 pm
Solutions are there for us Bill. The problem is how to enact changes that would bring this to reality? It would be an understatement to say it wouldn’t be welcomed by the status quo.
Interesting blog, Jennifer! I’ll be visiting.
I listened to the first part of Harper’s speech today and was amused that he spoke in high school language.
Does he really have to dumb down his words so the party faithful will understand?
The other thing that was striking was that there was no substance, just partisan platitudes.
If the leaders lead, the people will follow, unless the leader is lost, in which case, he is not a leader.
Canadians know a leader when they see one, and they do not see a clear alternative at the present moment.
By keith phibbs on 01.25.08 8:51 pm
Actually, Dion came right out ans stated ‘What Harper denied was a lie!’ on CBC National.
Finally the ‘L’ word is used without the Speaker chastising the MP! LOL
Come Monday, I expect to hear it repeated numerous times.
Garth, Stand up and tell it like it is. You are more than the MP for your riding. You are our voice as caring Canadians!
Imagine the angst I, and Maggie (I believe she also is on the Muskoka?) feel having an MP like TTTC, who we KNOW it is a waste of time even corresponding with, as he has his nose so far up Harper’s arse he would not even hear us?
The difference bewteen a ‘Brown Noser’ and a ‘Kiss Ass’ is DEPTH PERCEPTION!
TTTC could easily qualify for hearing impaired assistance from OHIP!
Have a great night.
real women identify with strong leader Stephen Harper.
By Harry S on 01.25.08 9:26 pm
ROFLMAO!
You Pudge Gut, Flak Jacket wearing, PM Photo-op Caesar Disgustus?
Watch RCAF and see Steve in the kitchen with Laureen. Yeah, Steve’s a man alright, in his own mind, and your’s.
Also watch Rick’s Rant, because he defines well how both major parties ’support our troops!’
Good night Harry. Hope you have a lackey to go get your Tim’s for you there at the Death Star!
By Lana on 01.25.08 8:59 pm
Thank you. But never forget Hope is a four letter word! LOL
Sounds like he’s got you swimming in testo. — Garth
If Dion and your Liberals don’t make a stand against the upcoming Conservative Budget, or sooner, all of you will be swimming wid da fishes, politically.
You talk to Dion .. tell him to shit or get off the pot .. because Canadians are not impressed after 2 years of his leader-in-training results. Thanks ….
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.25.08 8:40 pm
Marc, I am shocked you made that statement. I am sorry Sir, but that could not more inaccurate. The U.S. political system is corrupt beyond imagination to sentient people. I know First Hand being from there.
…………………………..
In short, IMHO, we do NOT need or want an American style system in Canada. Ask yourself this question. ‘Why have more than 500,000 Americans immigrated to Canada?’ My answer would be ‘Because Canada represents real American values more than the U.S does in its recent history.
Shocking?
…………………………………………………….
What is shocking is you telling Canadians how bad it is in the States after you hightailed it out of your own country and hid in Canada. I think you should restrict your criticisms to your native land and stfu about Canada and making ludicrous claims like: ‘Because Canada represents real American values more than the U.S does in its recent history.;
So are we to assume that you intend to bring Canadian values to America, or are you going to hide and spout your nonsense anonymously..??!!
While you were waiting,
another Canadian soldier was killed in Afghanistan:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080124.SOLDIER24/TPStory/National
and another Canadian business went bankrupt, distroyed by Dodge the flip-flopper:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpposted/archive/2008/01/25/tories-quot-destroyed-quot-auto-factory-union.aspx and the
crooks were caught lying again:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080125.wharperafghan0125/BNStory/Afghanistan/home
I work in the manufacturing industry in Ontario- the one Harper is hell-bent in distroying. We’re dying, Mr. Turner! We’re dying!
And you’re still waiting!
Leaders do not follow polls. They change the polls.
Some Canadian women are attracted to wimpy men like Dion, while real women identify with strong leader Stephen Harper.
Sounds like he’s got you swimming in testo. — Garth
ROFL~!
Methinks “real women” = Harry S.
Not that there is anything wrong with it…
Austin
- Bob McDonald
via maggie on 01.25.08 7:47 pm:
“The one scientist in this country who had direct access to the Prime Minister is being dismissed. Canada’s National Science Adviser, Dr. Arthur Carty, was appointed by former Prime Minister Paul Martin to provide expert advice on the government’s role in matters of science and science policy. Now, less than four years after the position was created, the Harper government feels that it’s no longer necessary.”
When the Liberals form the next Government of Canada, they must reinstate the position of Canada’s National Science Adviser that has been cut by the current Machiavellian PM. Scientists, with their commitment to objectivity, comprise a precious national resource, and their input is required by government to compensate for the partisan myopia of politicians. In this time, when our future is so uncertain, our government should expand the role of scientists in formulating national policy and goals. Only a self-absorbed megalomaniac would think otherwise.
Garth, when the next government is looking for visionaries to help shape the best possible future for Canadians, please try to get Brain involved somehow. The ideas posted on your blog by Brain in the past few days are among the most inspiring I have seen.
I am a woman and I like Stephen Harper. So does my mother and pretty well all of the women I know. We think he looks quite a bit like JFK and when he speaks he communicates clearly. He is not a showboat . He comes across as sensible, decent, a good family man, husband and father and sincere in his desire to make Canada a better place. He is well respected on the world stage too. He is the kind of guy I would hire as the manager of my company. I met him in person and he has the nicest blue eyes and laughs a lot. He did not want to be front and centre in politics so he did not get into this for ego purposes. So this myth that women don’t like him is really a media/pollster inventin in my opinion. Women really did not like Chretien for sure- he was a bufoon, rude and dismissive. But Harper, a very credible nice young man I am quite proud to call my Prime MInister.
One ponders if there will be any more this year? Maybe.
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/banking_and_taxation_irs/news.php?q=1201320363
Some Canadian women are attracted to wimpy men like Dion, while real women identify with strong leader Stephen Harper.
By Harry S on 01.25.08 9:26 pm
Are you KIDDING ME? “Real women”?!? Where the hell are you from – Utah? North Dakota? The 50s?
So what else do “real women” like, Harry? Serving hor d’oeuvres? Dressing up to please their hubby? Maybe a little love tap now and again to remind them who’s boss? Does it make them feel all soft and feminine being kept in line by their big, strong, manly man?
Do us all a favour and go find a nice red state to retire to. You’ll love it down there – they all talk like you.
Harry
REAL women is a group that supports Harper and putting women back in the kitchen. As an organization they are a disgrace to women’s rights
I just want to leave a comment regarding something that is floating around in the Anti-Liberal, Pro-Conservative blogosphere. That is the idea of “Operational Information (OI).”
While I will admit that the Canadian Forces (CF) have in the past not discussed much information to the Canadian public, namely WWI, WWII and Korea, I do believe that allowing the electorate to be knowledgeable about general policy matters concerning general operations of the mission in Afghanistan.
To highlight, I will quote a Conservative blogger Terry Hultquist who said on CTV News blog that, “At any other time in our history (WWI,WW2, Korea), if anyone divulged an operational decision by the military, they would be charged with treason, and if guilty, they would be hanged. The government must have had a reason for not making this public.” While this is true, this argument would no longer be applicable to modern society. In WWI, armies on all sides used chemical weapons including mustard gas to advance on the enemy with little knowledge of these events by the Canadian electorate. In WWII, the Nazis systematically executed millions of European Jews, Gypsys, Homosexuals and other minorities with little to no knowledge in Canada of the extend of the problems. Korea was home to brutal fighting with arguably unnecessary amounts of civilian casualties.
Our societies have progressed to find things like torture, genocide and chemical weapons to be wrong and we have signed and ratified International Law that bans them. The media and public disclosure are important ways to ensure that war is conducted as humanely as possible with respect of our values and our obligations. Our society has evolved to where the Canadian electorate and their representatives want answers about what the Government and the CF are doing on the ground. They have a legitimate right to that information as long as it is in a general sense and not base by base information.
What I have been noticing from this Conservative Government is an increasing trend to try to undermine these norms and these International Laws to conform to this very dystopian view of the world. I therefore congratulate and ask M. Dion to continue pressing the Government on issues that are so fundamental to the core values of our Democracy.
For all their faults, Trudeau, Mulroney and Chretien / Martin never put Canadian forces in unnecessary trouble. Areas which have ongoing conflicts and violence? Yes, but not as being the aggressors, simply trying to keep two sides apart. Harper takes the opposing view, and this is now a part of his legacy.
You go your way in your life, Catherine, and I’ll go mine.
By Charles Oxley on 01.25.08 6:04 pm
Well Charles O, now I know you have blinders – for it was Chretien, who sent in our troops into Bosnia, when at first there was no peace to keep – it was a peace MAKING NATO mission. In Bosnia – there were 26 Canadian troops killed!
And secondly, it was Chretien, who first sent our troops into Afghanistan, when Kabul was still very unstable, and it was Paul Martin who changed our military’s engagement to Kandahar.
I find it amazing that you Liberals re-write history without even blinking an eye. Shame on you!
That is why women dislike him –we just can’t see him as an honest man.
So, perhaps to get your majority, you will have to find a different leader??
By Judy on 01.25.08 7:03 pm
Judy, please speak for yourself. You are not speaking for me nor my friends. Thank you.
Catherine does realize that during WWII we had a Liberal government – Mackenzie King (a little strange as a person, no personality, no charisma) but did use the pillar approach and accomplished so much for Canada.
The concept of peacekeeping came long after the war – to try to prevent wars.
Duh.
You’ve really been touching some raw nerves…good job! Leasa
By Leasa on 01.25.08 7:44 am
The real Leasa, the vindictive Leasa, emerges once again.
Not nice!
And Lana,
You are to be congratulated for sticking to the high road. That was clever, classy and commendable
Hey Garth, were do you stand on the 2 cases on free speech (Macleans and Ezra Levant) complaints.
Just finished watching TVO’s Paikin session, and I feel that are Canada is going down the “Big Brother” curtailing of our freedom of speech rights.
Here is the link to Paikin’s discussion…
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/tvoutils/globalfiles/VideoPop.cfm?spot_id=3815&sitefolder=theagenda
Harry, Sorry to disappoint, but must women don’t like grossly overweight men who wear makeup.
By brain on 01.25.08 6:07 pm
“Brain” your lengthy but thoughtful posts are always well worth reading, I was particularly struck with this one and have taken the liberty of submitting it (with minor edits to remove references to previous posts) as a stand alone article to Vive le Canada. http://www.vivelecanada.ca/index.php
It should appear on that site in a few hours and I would invite you to join in the discussions there.
Harry: You, once again, have demonstrated your lack of critical reading skills.
I said women don’t like Harper because he is dishonest, he has no honour, he has no empathy.
Honesty, honour and empathy might be weakness in your eyes, but than again you think Harper is strong. I guess you like the “he-man” type. All brawn no brains.
And what would you know about “real” women? Harper as demoted all his real women?–Rona, Bev, Diane—all 5 steps behind now.
Hey Garth,
i’m hearing alot of mixed opionion in the academic world at MUN in St.John’s, Newfoundland. (In case you don’t know, MUN stands for Memorial University of Newfoundland, which was incorporated in 1959/53. Before that period, it was a college from 1921-49/53. The university was created as a War Memorial to those Newfoundlanders and Labradorians who fought in WW1 and WW2).
History lessons aside, one of my profs (who by the way) views the Federal Liberals as “a dead party” at this point, seeing as people like you find yourself in a choatic situation. If you bring down the government, you risk giving Harper a majority (or a larger minority) government. But if you don’t, then Harper will use it to reinforce his message that Stephanie Dion is “not a leader.”
My other prof. (who teaches world political problems at MUN) told me that he’s not sure how the Federal Liberals will turn out. He personally thinks that Dion’s and Ignatieff’s comments about possibly invading Pakistan were a political gaffe.
But in my opionion, all hope is not lost. Little does Harper know it, but the Green Party is on the brink of winning their 1st seats, probably either in Alberta, Ontario, or Nova Scotia. Second, the PC (Progressive Canadian) Party (which has existed federally since 2004) plans on running candidates in ALL Federal Districts in the next Federal Election. Plus, the NL First Party is almost a federally registered party, with our 1st candidate on the verge of getting his paperwork done. With that done, the NL First Party will become an Official Federally Registered Party.
Do you see what I see? The Greens, Progressive Canadians,and NL First Party will probably split much of the Conservative vote four ways. What does this mean? The Liberals can simply “crept up the middle”, allowing them to win in many otherwise unwinnable districts.
The result? Dion might just get the minority (or majority) he’s looking for, seeing as the Progressive Canadians is much in line with many of the former Progressive Conservatives in Atlantic Canada, Dion and May are working together, and NL First is 100% behind NL Premier Danny Williams. In fact, the NL First Party wants to build on what Danny has done for NL by working on the federal front.
So in my opionion, things aren’t as bad for the Liberals as they may seem: people have forgotten what effects vote splitting or “spoiler parties” can have on who wins what seat. Need I remind you that the Liberals won consecutive majority government since the late 80’s/ early 90’s until Reform and the PCs merged together?
With the Progressive Canadians on the seen, many who voted Conservative will probably vote Progressive Canadian instead. Also, environmentally conservative people who voted out Former PM Paul Martin often voted Conservative because of the lack of inaction on the environment. Many of these people will either end up voting Liberal (because Stephanie Dion is being called “The Al Gore of Canada” by some), Progressive Canadian, or for the Green Party (Elizabeth May is a former PC, with her only leaving to join the Greens after Mulroney made some big mistakes on the environment).
Either way, I hope this analysis helps!
By Harry S on 01.25.08 6:52 pm
At the risk of repeating myself, as I and many others have pointed this out, time after time, Harry,
Mr. Dion was Minister of the Environment under Paul Martin’s minority government and your beloved leader, Mr. Harper, while in opposition, made it perfectly clear that he, Mr. Harper, was a climate change denyer and that any attempt to implement Kyoto would go absolutely nowhere.
Now get your head out of the sand, becuse with the gooberment there’s going to be a whole lot more to cover the rest of you.
Typo, that should say in the last paragraph, “With the Progressive Canadians on the scene” (not “on the seen”…. I must not be awake yet, seeing as it’s 10:22 a.m NL Time).
On another note, do you have any MPTV conference of the Liberal caucus retreat in Kitchener, Ontario? NTV News (it used to be the Newfoundland and Labrador Branch of CTV News until the 1980’s. At that point, NTV News became incorporated as being independent from CTV) hasn’t given any coverage of that retreat….
Also, i’ve noticed that the Liberals unveiled their “Green Manufacturing Strategy.” However, I was saddened to notice that it didn’t spell out what would be done about the crumbling manufacturing sector in places like Stephenville,NL. Also, Corner Brook’s forestry industry had to close a mill lately, and the plan didn’t say anything about developing a sustainable forestry sector, especially on the West Coast of NL.
Also, i’ve yet to hear Dion (or his fisheries critic, Scott Simms, MP for Corner Brook-Gander-Grand Falls-Windsor) make any announcements concerning Fisheries policies. Last, why aren’t the Liberals criticizing Harper for the 20+ vacancies he’s left in the seat, including 1 that’s since in NL since 2005?!
Garth, could you please bring these issues to Dion’s attention, seeing as you are now the “Special Advisor on Constituency Issues”?!
brain on 01.25.08 6:07 pm,
Your comments are constructive and definately full of passion.
The one thing on which you have not been able to convince me is that Dion is the person to adopt or accomplish the kind of vision that you put forward.
First of all, he would have to be willing to adopt that vision. He has shown no indication that he would be willing to undertake such a bold new direction. In fact, to this point he seems totally stuck in the traditional Liberal mode of promoting globalization and education to replace lost the jobs. There has been nothing to suggest how education alone can provide jobs.
Secondly, even if he wanted to strike out on such a bold plan, there would be huge resistence from those who accept the status quo.
Maybe it is not the traditional party leaders that provide the vision for the future but people like yourself who should be out in public promoting that vision.
Traditional political parties, as they operate today, are not the place in which people with vision are welcome. Parties tend to nurture the like-minded and see the bold and visionary as “wing-nuts.”
I know that it is common practice to hide embarrassing things under security classifications, but Top Secret would be carrying things too far, so I doubt it.
By Herb on 01.25.08 7:21 pm
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/74/2d/a8b59dd24a48a832f3da0bc5245f.jpeg
Something wrong at the GENERAL STAFF OFFICER LEVEL? I’ve read three accounts in two days about lack of preparedness and inadequate kit. If the country commits without force integration and planning, not to mention a backdrop of federal ministers suffering from vertigo, we’re not serving our sons and daughters well.
It’s exactly like Rumsfeld telling the troops in Iraq they were, “expecting too much,” when they were asking for additional armour for their APC’s and LAV’s.
We both know mortalities occur when it takes too long to transport casualties.
Here’s the “vison” that our founding fathers had for Canada:
Peace, Order and Good Government.
I think we have that now…knock on wood.
By lmf on 01.25.08 8:41 pm
Peace – We are in the middle of a war on terrorism
Order- Between RCMP corruption ,Agent provacateurs in montebello ,and Harpers divide and conquer attitude, we have less order in Canada than ever before..
Good Governance- Just read the papers. Harper and the cons continually embarass, alienate , and disgust the average Canadian.
So wakeup , you are on a sinking ship.
And Harry
“Some Canadian women are attracted to wimpy men like Dion, while real women identify with strong leader Stephen Harper”
That is funny coming from a sexist , old fashioned con like yourself.Especially since over 80 percent of women will not vote for Harper ,period.
Sounds like he’s got you swimming in testo. — Garth
By Harry S on 01.25.08 9:26 pm
I believe Harry A$$ would have his entire arm bandaged for a paper cut on his right index finger, and then ask for ‘favouring’ work assignments.
” letting Harper do his damage to Canada.”
Harry , are you admitting Harper is damaging Canada?
Why would you support someone who is destroying Canadian credibility on the world stage and the Canadian way of living?Is that the conservative way?
By Harry S on 01.25.08 6:52 pm
You remind me of an airhead cheerleader who knows a few names of the visiting team and nothing more. You see numbers on a scoreboard..
http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sectors/Mining/2007/11/13/4652655-cp.html
And know not what they mean. Lost tax revenue, lost jobs, lost industry from stinking economic policies… its like you treat it as a game without understanding the rules (constitiution and legislation) the referee (media), the goal (quality of life, economic and national sovereignty) and the way you cheer… you cheapen and demean the sheer importance of it.
You are seen as a heckler in the stands, there for ego and nothing more… as if taunts somehow contributes in a positive way.
You should grow up. Seriously! You’ve been posting on this site, praising a leader that is instrumental in Garth Turner no longer being a Conservative because he wanted to keep a democratic principle through blogs and transparency and yet, see no harm in participating in democracy yourself by supporting those who don’t! Its hypocritical!
And what are you doing Harry S with your Harper praise? Throwing it in Garth’s face and that is not only highly insensitive, its highly immoral to support the very leader who forced Garth out due to running a blog, while at the same time, participating in the same blog yourself. Its hypocritical, its redundant, and it makes you look horribly slow.
If you want to so desparately cheerlead as though its going to make some kind of difference, try a Conservative site and good luck finding an MP who will put on any kind of democratically principled blog for your “entertainment”.
If you want to stay, be civil and try posting comments with facts that make sense. Personally, I don’t think you’re capable of either, but one never knows… at this point the only use you provide to us is a case study of just another brainwashed New Conservative that offers biased critique with no solutions and since there are plenty out there just like you, its easy to say that you should just move on.
You aren’t learning anything here. Like any other knowitall who knows F all, you’ve stopping learning before you got here and do you really think it isn’t obvious to anyone who is a student or teacher of politics?
Grow up or move on.
Stephen Harper: “Tacked and Weaved”? …. more like Lied, Concealed and Fabricated
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/01/harper-tacked-and-weaved-more-like-lied_26.html
Austin So on 01.26.08 12:00 am,
You are aware that Real Women is the name of an organization of social conservative women who are big supporters of the new Conservatives. They are a group that supports what they see as the traditional role of women and are strongly opposed to feminism and gender equality. They claim to be responsible for having women’s equality eliminated from the mandate of the Status of Women although I believe the word “equality” has been quietly reinstated on the web page under the current minister.
In that sense it is correct to say that “Real Women” do support Stephen Harper.
If Dion is so popular with women, how come only 10 – 15% of all Canadians want him to be the next prime minister?
Let’s remember that women constitute 52% of all Canadians, and polling consistently shows that most Canadians do not have confidence in Dion’s leadership of the country.
Conversely, the Liberal party brand still commands a 30% overall popularity, and we know that number is a composite of 60% women/40% men. Come the next election, my guess is that half the Liberal support will melt away because staunch Liberals will chose not to vote at all because they don’t want another prime minister from Quebec, and that goes double in Quebec.
It’s really quite simple because Dion’s weak leadership will suck down the Liberal vote thusly:
15% Dion + 30% Liberal = 20% Liberal turnout vote.
Most Liberal supporters on this fine forum are in a state of perpetual delusion as they angrily deny reality and viciously attack our PM Harper. They have no realistic hope with Dion as their leader so they make up fantasy stories about Dion’s great leadership. They are desperately trying to convince themselves that Liberal fortunes are rising.
Sorry folks .. it ain’t so in the Real World … and not even MP Garth believes it based on the tone of his latest blog ..”Still waiting” … waiting for a real leader for the Liberal party.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=39465d16-a69f-4cc2-8797-1ce759871cf1
This link simply reaffirms what Garth has been saying concerning the lack of affordability in housing. Note that these stats were based on fixed rate 25 year morgages with 25% already down.
Affordability is simply priced out of the market in most of Canada and that is a major cause for concern. We are facing a generation of young people that will be facing one of two things. They won’t be able to own their own home because they don’t have the money to enter or the income to afford the debt load unless they inherit, or they will be facing a serious recession that will create affordability in the markets over the long term.
The U.S. housing market downturn is likely to end up here in Canada. All it takes is a U.S. recession causing a world recession, and a major drop in the valuations of commodities, likely to arrive in Canada within a year.
The good ol’ days are over, except for the song and dance of Flarethy and Co.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/01/25/surplus.html
We can expect to see red ink next year as the GST kicks in and corporate profits shrink.
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/01/25/inflation.html
These inflation numbers aren’t good either. Luxury items have dropped in terms of cost to buy offsetting a rise in inflation, but energy, food and morgage costs have increased substantially. If commodities/real estate devalues and the loonie stays high further depressing forestry and manufacturing, a recession will come to this nation by the end of the year. It shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to see it coming.
Prepare!
Detainee controversy hangs over Tory meeting
Updated Sat. Jan. 26 2008 10:18 AM ET
The Canadian Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080126/tory_caucus_080126/20080126?hub=TopStories
OTTAWA — Facing a possible scandal over the handling of Afghan prisoners, federal Conservatives are meeting behind closed-doors in Ottawa to plot strategy for the resumption of Parliament.
The opposition charges the government covered up news that Canadian troops have stopped transferring Taliban prisoners to Afghan authorities for almost three months.
The Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois say the Tories were embarrassed after discovering that a prisoner had been tortured, the way critics had been warning.
A senior aide to Prime Minister Stephen Harper at first claimed the military hadn’t told the government, but then backed away from those comments.
Industry Minister Jim Prentice defended the prime minister’s embattled communications director, saying Sandra Buckler corrected her statements promptly and responsibly.
Longtime MP Art Hanger wouldn’t indicate whether he thinks Buckler should be fired, saying he has no control over the situation.
Asked if he’ll raise concern about the flip-flops with the prime minister, Hangar said he has a bunch of issues to raise, but the communications problems are not among them.
Let’s start the day with a reality check of ‘How is Mother Nature, and hence we, doing?’
Perfect storm on the global horizon
Ever since the Club of Rome published Limits to Growth 35 years ago, the path to global collapse has been mapped. But few paid attention: The threat was far off, the steps toward it seemed easy to accommodate, there was no sense of urgency.
Some options are forever gone. Yet change has to go to the heart of society. It has to result in a social transformation comparable to the industrial revolution that began in 1750, or the agricultural revolution that started about 9,500 years ago.
This sounds formidable, but it can be done. At present, however, signs of growing disorder abound. Climate stability has peaked and is becoming unstable, as global warming creates chaotic weather patterns. Humanity’s ecological footprint now surpasses the carrying capacity of the globe by more than 20 per cent.
Global production of grain peaked around 1985. Natural gas production in North America peaked long ago. Global production of conventional oil has probably peaked, or is about to.
The Genuine Progress Indicator peaked around 1980 and has been declining slowly since then. Fresh water availability has probably peaked. By 2002, some 75 per cent of the world’s oceans were fished out or were being exploited beyond capacity. In nature, populations of all species has dropped, on average, by a third since 1970.
Among the world’s large water bodies, there are 61 major dead zones. And up to two-thirds of the world’s forests are gone – half of that amount has disappeared since 1950. Concurrently, poverty has remained in epidemic proportions and the gap between rich and poor has widened dramatically.
What’s at the root of all this muddle? In Limits to Growth: The 30-Year Update, Donella and Dennis Meadows and Jorgen Randers say there are two driving forces: population growth and the belief in exponential growth.
….
Exponential growth is the bedrock of our culture. Governments, central banks, and businesses maintain the economy must grow every year to remain healthy. But unending expansion goes against every law of nature. If an 18-year-old young man weighing 77.3 kilograms (170 pounds) were to increase his weight by only 2 per cent a year, by the time he reached age 53 he would weigh 154.6 kilograms (340 pounds), and be a ripe candidate for heart disease and diabetes.
More….
Yet, here we read that, on a proportional basis, our current government has less headroom financially, than most of us do.
Treasury ekes out $100M surplus in November
The federal budgetary surplus was a slim $100 million in November as spending rose faster than revenues, the Finance Department said Friday.
That compared with a surplus of $500 million in November a year earlier.
In October, the federal treasury recorded a $2.7 billion deficit as the tax cuts announced that month were added into the mix.
Yet, we then are told Ottawa running healthy $6.7-billion surplus by Canwest News Service. Say WHAT?
The federal government was running a healthy $6.7-billion surplus eight months into the current fiscal year, even after including the cost of retroactive income tax cuts for the 2007 tax year, which were announced in the fall budget update.
The Finance Department in its latest monthly fiscal report also noted that program spending in the April-through-November period of the 2007-08 fiscal year rose by $7.9 billion, or 6.7 per cent, a pace which sparked criticism from the head of a tax watchdog organization.
“Once again, spending is running above budget projections,” warned John Williamson, federal director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
“That is troubling for two reasons,” Mr. Williamson said. “It drives down the surplus and it makes tax relief less likely.”
Headlines like that are straight out MISLEADING! Flim Flam Dim Jim may believe we are a bunch of idiots, but he is WRONG!
It seems Reagan was not the only one with Voodoo Economics training?
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, in his budget update Oct. 30, projected an $11.8-billion surplus this year — $10 billion of which to be used to pay down more debt.
If I ask you ‘How much money do you have?’ You, or I would answer based on real cash in hand. That is the difference between known obligations and the total cash available. We would not say ‘Oh, I have millions because I am expecting to win the lottery next month.’
No wonder people are turned off by politicis. Trying to get a straight answer ois less likely than a UFO beaming you up and taking you away.
Now, those both tie into this concept: Politicians delivering on promises
Like a contractor who sticks to the estimate, a politician who keeps an election promise dwells somewhere in the realm of disbelief for most of us.
We seem to have two sets of values. If we buy a ticket, board a plane, and trust the plane will safely take us to the pre-selected and promised destination on a certain date, and on a certain schedule then we are happy and trust that airline. If they fail to do so we would be apt to sue them or seek other renumeration for violation of our confidence.
Yet, we allow politicians to say anything, promise anything, and then, like adeled fools, act like they simple are expected to lie to us and not deliver. We place our lives in their hands in both instances.
So what lobe of the human brain justifies the latter reniging on their promises as though it is no big deal? What form of reasoning allows us to have this double standard? What is the disease?
By brain on 01.26.08 9:42 am
And what are you doing Harry S with your Harper praise? Throwing it in Garth’s face and that is not only highly insensitive, its highly immoral to support the very leader who forced Garth out due to running a blog, while at the same time, participating in the same blog yourself. Its hypocritical, its redundant, and it makes you look horribly slow.
If you want to so desparately cheerlead as though its going to make some kind of difference, try a Conservative site and good luck finding an MP who will put on any kind of democratically principled blog for your “entertainment”.
If you want to stay, be civil and try posting comments with facts that make sense. Personally, I don’t think you’re capable of either, but one never knows… at this point the only use you provide to us is a case study of just another brainwashed New Conservative that offers biased critique with no solutions and since there are plenty out there just like you, its easy to say that you should just move on.
You aren’t learning anything here. Like any other knowitall who knows F all, you’ve stopping learning before you got here and do you really think it isn’t obvious to anyone who is a student or teacher of politics?
Grow up or move on.
……………………………………………………………………………………
brain … now your desperation is so palpable and you are reduced to lying .. yes lying about my postings. My praise of Harper is in relation to Dion — a comparison of political leadership. It’s the Liberal goons on this forum who are mercilessly slagging Harper with their unfounded personal attacks. You are blatantly selective in your criticism of me because you know I am right about Dion.
As for your crass suggestion that I “try a Conservative site” .. that only exposes your crass ignorance about our MP Garth and the name of this weblog forum:
Garth Turner Unedited — JOIN CANADIANS IN CONSERVATION WITH GARTH
Thanfully, MP Garth is a lot more open-minded and democratic than you because his weblog forum is for ALL Canadians. I wonder why he tolerates your pedantic pap that you fill the forum.
My critique of the Liberal party is based on (1) Dion’s obvious failed leadership, and, (2) a Liberal party not yet ‘renewed’ to rid it of it’s sordid past.
I have great hope that new Liberals like our MP Garth will be a catalyst for change within the defunct Liberal party. Canada needs a strong and viable Liberal party, cleansed of it’s past and ready to govern the country. In it’s present state, the wallowing Liberal party is divided and it is still searching for a strong leader. I am trying to accelerate that ‘renewal’ process, and in the absence of a legitimate Liberal party, I support the leadership of Stephen Harper and the new Conservative government.
MP Garth recognizes ALL Canadians on his weblog, and doesn’t tell participants to “try a Conservative site” … and that is because MP Garth respects the pov of ALL Canadians on his weblog. Perhaps it is you who should vacate this forum and “try a Liberal site” to spew your copious pedantic pap. Ever think of that ??!!!
MP Garth is recognized to be a universal Canadian politician. Thank you MP Garth for providing us with this vibrant and vivacious forum. You are a winner in my books, and somebody who can help the Liberal party in their current funk. Go for it ..!!!
Petrobitch,
no war runs as advertised, every war is “come as you are” in clothing, equipment, training, organization and doctrine, and no plan survives contact with the enemy. You adjust as necessary as you go along.
That is the nature of the beast, so I would hold off trying to assign blame – except to those who are trying to exploit an unpleasant situation.
P.S.: We don’t have a separately set-up and functioning “General Staff”. We have a more universal base of staff-trained officers instead.
To continue my thoughts on electoral reform, it would seem evident that only a grassroots movement with a foot in the door of Parliament can begin such a thing. Groups of interested citizens from across the country, using the internet to converse and formulate a model to be presented via private members bill could begin the process.
If these groups were to focus effort on presenting the model to current political entities, parties, citizen groups, independent and independent minded members for example, and then work to publish the progress/interest or lack there of received, a tide of mounting pressure for real change could begin.
This of course is contingent on 2 major things. The Will to do more than bitch, and the resilience to be ignored, taunted and sneered at by the Lord’s of the Loo. (How dare you suggest such nonsense! How dare you disrespect my status and heritage? My God given right to the plum and the pie? You Commie!)
Platitudes, slogans and catchphrases are effective political tools as so few people actually stay with the process in between elections. As older people have seen, simplicity such as “It’s time for a change”, is all it takes in some cases. I mention this as it is clear to strategists that the balance can be shifted so easily based on perception, and usually, very short term perception.
This is where the power of the internet can come into play. With sites such as this one, and all the affiliated/linked bloggers and other available public forums, a common theme can be advanced by ordinary, interested parties. The key to this is to have a common goal of advancing the concept of electoral change, and a simple yet realistic plan to do so.
Ike said;
I nominate Garth to lead the charge on Parliament Hill, and to bring together a coalition of independents, malcontents and digital-democracy-bents as a rallying point to give Canadians a real choice to the old-line parties.
There is a whole grassroots movement out there just waiting for a leader. If not Garth, who? If not now, when?
By Ike on 01.25.08 11:26 am
Sure, why not? This doesn’t have to be the only movement for change either. Many of you may disagree with me on what I’m going to say next, but I can’t see a place of prominence in the Liberal party for Garth. His style doesn’t fit the structure. That is, unless he chooses to take his place in the order of things. Then there may be a place, but not in the inner circle methinks.
My vision includes more choices, more necessity based initiatives and much less pandering to special interest money and votes.
Ron Paul has had a great deal of support stem from internet activity and Obama gathered a great following on My Space. Although this turned sour and resulted in a dispute between the operator of the site and Obama and his people. In my view, this could have been easily avoided and did not speak well for Obama as it played out. Here is a link that is worth a look.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/2/35114/27244
Enough for now. I try not to make posts excessively long.
I agree with Harry that nobody is better positioned than Garth to rise up above the partisanship of the past, and to lead a broad cross-section of Canadians on to a new pathway that is different from the old line parties.
I don’t always agree with Garth but he makes me feel heard, and listened to. I think that that is what Canadians want.
None of us are going to get our way all of the time, but it does help a lot when we sense that our point of view has been heard. Every human being is entitled to some dignity, and we must come to the place of recognizing that even where we may disagree, perhaps our “opponent” is not really our enemy after all. He or she may, in fact, have insight into an area where we are yet blind, and we need to learn to listen before we speak, and to acknowledge that almost every point of view, even those that are seemingly weird, may have at least a kernel of validity and truth.
How can this dialogue happen unless contrasting views are allowed to be heard? Garth allows this to happen, and I applaud him for it.
I agree with Harry that Garth is the universal Canadian politician. He is too good for the old line parties, and could easily attract a follolwing from a wide range of political backgrounds into a new, broad-based coalition of Canadian citizens who appreciate that their point of view is heard, and that it counts in Garth’s view of things.
Congratulations, Garth. I wish you well in all future endeavours. Be bold! Be strong! Be courageous! Don’t be afraid to step on the toes of old-line politicians! The people are looking for a leader, and your time may be very soon! Go for it!
Which reminds me, Garth -
neither LMF nor any Death Star denizen has offered the explanation I requested at 7:21 last night. It might be worth pursuing the “operational risk” and security classification angles in QP – if it is not improperly planting a question.
I would like to speak to something that is totally off topic but something that I find is abhorent. This was a letter in yesterday’s G&M not quoting it exactly but it went something like this
IF the Gazas are starving why do they buy carpets? To the writer I would say unless you have lived in a third world country you don’t know what you are talking about. Carpets serve more than one purpose they are used to replace doors that have been blown out, or window coverings because glass is not obtainable, or as abed to be put down on a dirt floor. We who live in this country are assured that we have a roof that doesn’t leak, glass in our windows and doors that close out the heat and cold. I know there are homeless in this country which is a crying shame but I am speaking to the majority of this country and I would ask again if you were homeless and were given a chance to buy one days worth of food or a carpet that isn’t like our wall to wall version but more like a heavy blanket, something that would keep the wind, snow, rain off you which would you choose? End of rant!
Real women not the organization that wants to put us back into the kitchen as kept women but the but the mothers, daughters and grandmothers who work outside the home DO NOT like PMSH as he is untrustworthy egoist who has to blame evrybody but himself when things go wrong SOME LEADER.
There is ONE BIG ISSUE and ONE COMMON PASSION – THE CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS and how it is used and abused to serve only a very small, yet extremely powerful and influential group.
The politicians have failed us.
They have not protected Canadian citizens from the attacks and abuses on our rights and freedoms by those with great influence and power. If most constituents are focused on their own lives, due to the horrendous effects of the abuse on our rights and freedoms, then, perhaps it would be reasonable to assume that those extremely influential and powerful are focused on their own lives.
Politicians have failed.
I believe that the common passion, our RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS, can be seen everywhere among Canadians. It can be seen only by observing the miseries and how people are trying desperately to avoid and compensate for those miseries. Miseries for the masses for the benefit of a few.
The miseries are the evidence of the attack and abuse on our rights and freedoms.
One should be able to depend on our elected to protect our constitutional rights and freedoms from the implementation of “agreements” – Free Trade, SPP, Globalization… agreements made behind closed doors that only serve to the benefit of a few.
Quoted from another blogger who comments on an article called “EPA takes the Fifth” – (rejection of California’s new greenhouse gas regulations)
” Know that the prime killer of Democracy is ignorance. Worse, is making stuff up to cover ignorance. Worse yet is taking advantage of the ignorant to slide personal advantage past them”.
The passion and the issue is definitely the protection of our rights and freedoms. Governments that fail to protect their own citizens rights and freedoms, have to be overthrown – not appeased.
Harry
Please take some time off and give us a break from your constant put down of Dion. How do you know he is not a leader? How do you know what he would do if he were in power? Did we know what kind of leader Harper would make when he was in opposition? It would seem that we definitely did not know or at least did not understand the man, this only be came evident after he became Prime Minister. There are some who cannot tolerate Harper’s policies even though they voted for him, why should Dion not have the same opportunities? Also I would appreciate knowing why you think Ignatieff would be a better leader, is it possibly because you see similar traits that Harper has.
Anyway Harry take some time to read your posts and analyze the things you have said. Only time and experience will tell who is a good leader, hopefully Dion will have that opportunity as evidence is showing Harper is not a leader.
Harry, Sorry to disappoint, but must women don’t like grossly overweight men who wear makeup.
By Loraine Lamontagne on 01.26.08 7:47 am
Hi Loraine, Have you ever done any t.v. work? Make-up is a must unless you want to look washed out. I can assure you that every P.M. in recent history has had their own personal ‘make-up’ person on staff. Fact is; one recent P.M. used to take his everywhere he went and if he was giving a talk, she’d sit in the audience and signal him if he needed to straighten his tie or hair etc. As for ‘grossly over weight’ who are you talking about? Yes, Mr. Harper has a tummy as does about 80% of the middle aged male population in this country. You’ve insulted a heck of a lot of men here, ya know? My man has a ‘Harper-like’ tummy and he’s a brilliant, sexy, wonderful man who has a wife who is a hell of a great cook. Ya got a problem with that?
Cheers! Leasa
Hey, rub mine. — Garth
ATTENTION ALL REASONABLE & REALISTIC LIBERAL SUPPORTERS
I invite you to join me in search of a strong Liberal leader who can lead Liberals into the future.
It is obvious that Dion is not a successful national leader, and he must be replaced asap.
The Liberal party is in desperate need of renewal through rebuilding and replacing the party with new Liberals not besmirched by their sordid past which unfortunately still lingers in the minds of Canadians.
Canadians do not want another election until October 2009, and by that time Liberals will be able to find a new leader and renew the party as well. By then, Liberal can become a viable alternative to the current Conservative government.
I call on all reasonable and realistic Liberals on this forum to call for the resignation of Stephane Dion, and another leadership convention that will elect a leader that Liberals and the country deserve.
Let’s not go down with Dion’s, and face inevitable defeat and decimation in any next election. Canadians do not want another snap election, and Liberals cannot wait until October 2009 to find another leader.
Let us join with MP Garth as he clearly states:
Twenty-four months later, the people still wait. Change is for bold men. So far, we’re just men. – Garth
The Liberal party and Canadians deserve better. The time for change is now. A new and renewed Liberal party is urgently needed. It is time for change within the Liberal party, led by you and bold men and women like our MP Garth. Let’s do it..!!!
By Catherine on 01.26.08 5:28 am
You should ask Kim Campbell what she has to say about how Stephen Harper treats women. They are not kind words.
As for your digs with Cretien and lives lost in Bosnia, peace was restored in the best Canada could have tried. It was a UN mission and the international community had a full obligation and right to be there. The reality that our soldiers died without guns in their hands sent a message that could be heard around the world.
As for Paul Martin, you have a point! A major point to which I fully agree!! Aside from that, Canadians don’t deserve to die in combat for U.S. born NATO serving imperial interests. You have quite simply failed to realize what vital role and obligations with the UN actually means, as well as shift away from UN missions to NATO which happened under Martins watch in 2005. While your distaste for any such Liberal brand or policy is glaringly evident, be well aware that criticisms made against Paul Martin should be levyed against Harper in the same light, perhaps even moreso with the number of troops increased under Harpes watch including ballooning defense spending, or face the double standards criticisms levyed against you, of which it is most easily percieved.
By C. B. Innes on 01.26.08 9:17 am
Much agreed with what you have to say, except that I will mention this…
I doubt that even the Green party has looked into some of the solutions I’ve offered on my prior post. The long and short of it is that this New Con government will need to be replaced and while some don’t agree with the choices of the past (I’ve got my share of greivances with the Libs past and present, don’t kid yourself), the nature of leaders, cabinet ministers, MP’s and problems we face does change.
What I do like about Dion (and there are things I don’t, he’s not the best communicator in the world) is that I believe that this man can be influenced by those who have imagination where he does not.
Its like… what can one teach a knowitall or proud stuffed egomanic? What can one suggest to someone like that other than ideas that they could use for selfish gain? What substance could I ever offer to a Stephen Harper?
Mabye I’m wrong, maybe… but I’m rarely wrong with the examination of people or their character and what I see in Dion is a humble man. Dion’s strength will come not directly from within himself, but with his ability to recognize the strengths and vision of others and that, C.B. Innes, is what substance great leaders are forged and born.
By Harry S on 01.26.08 11:04 am
Must I repeat myself? Grow up or move on.
By rural on 01.26.08 8:17 am
By Natural on 01.26.08 12:23 am
Thanks!
Jordon,, Concerning your stated and fervent desire for the NFLD First party, in all honesty, I truly believe the way to go is for all 4 provinces in Atlantic Canada to merge as one. This would give them a population of 2.3 mil, a land mass of 539k Sq km and a voting bloc in the federal govt of 32 seats in the H of C and 30 seats in the senates. The other benefits would be the elimination of the huge duplication of services within the provinces and also ensure they were all moving in the same direction vice competing against each other in non productive ways. This would also go far towards the concept of a Atlantic Gateway such as the one now being developed in B.C.
This is getting hilarious … LOL
Liberals on this forum want a strong, overbearing central government but only a weak, mewling leader ..
.. while …
Conservatives want a strong and principled leader and a lean and efficient central government.
Who’s vision of Canada will Canadians prefer ???!!!
“Why should Dion not have the same opportunities?…hopefully Dion will have that opportunity” –Geminesse
Geminesee, that is the whole point. Dion has had his opportunity and his opportunities. He has served long in the Cabinet. He has a track record on the environment and other issues. He has had his chance, and blew it.
He belongs to the past, not to the future. He belongs to yesterday, not to tomorrow.
The point being expressed here is that we need a bold new leader to give us a fresh start, a new beginning.
2008 could be a year of new beginnings, but Dion has proven himself time and time again to be vacillating, wavering, tentative and procrastinating.
Consider how, since the Manley Report, he is still vacillating on what his position is on Afghanistan. I thought he was saying one thing. Now we are not sure. One may not agree with John Manley, but at least we know where he stands.
With Dion, we don’t know where he really stands, and what principles does he really adhere to that are not negotiable or subject to change with the latest poll?
This kind of track record is deeply established by past behaviour patterns, habits, custms and repeated practices, and to think that they would suddenly change if he became Prime Minister is a bit of a stretch. In fact, too much of a stretch to be realistic.
The fact is that he has been around awhile. He has a track record in office. He has had his day.
We now live in a new day and in a new year that calls for new leadership.
Let’s not move back to the past. Let’s move forward!
By brain on 01.26.08 12:13 pm
Its like… what can one teach a knowitall or proud stuffed egomanic? What can one suggest to someone like that other than ideas that they could use for selfish gain? What substance could I ever offer to a Stephen Harper?
Mabye I’m wrong, maybe… but I’m rarely wrong with the examination of people or their character and what I see in Dion is a humble man. Dion’s strength will come not directly from within himself, but with his ability to recognize the strengths and vision of others and that, C.B. Innes, is what substance great leaders are forged and born.
………………………………………………………….
You brain, are a pompous prig who thinks he is some kind of political oracle to be heeded by the country’s leaders. You are living in full flight delusion.
Where you are correct is your assessment of Dion because you see yourself in Dion .. as a self-proclaimed “humble man”.
You reveal your self-centredness when you first say: “I’m rarely wrong with the examination of people or their character” … and then you attribute the same for Dion when you say: “Dion’s strength will come not directly from within himself, but with his ability to recognize the strengths and vision of others “. Both you and Dion are great men !!!
What you reveal about yourself is a narrow and pedantic approach to politics and life. I may still have to ‘grow up’, but it’s obvious that you have grown up and failed like Dion.
Liberals and Canada deserve better than Dion … and thankfully we have people like MP Garth in Parliament.
And now for a little laughter, or groaning depending on one;s perspective.
This is whay America has lost its moral compass. LAWYERS and IDIOTS!
I present you with the Stella Awards:
For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled herself with hot coffee and successfully sued the McDonald’s in New Mexico where she made the purchase. You may remember that she took the lid off the coffee cup and put it between her knees while she was driving. Who would ever think one could get burned doing that, right?
These are yhe awards for the most outlandish lawsuits and verdicts in the U.S. The kind of legal cases that make you scratch your head and say “huh”? Here are the Stella Awards for the past year:
7TH PLACE:
Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son.
6TH PLACE:
Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles, California won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn’t notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbour’s hubcaps.
5TH PLACE:
Terrence Dickson, of Bristol, Pennsylvania, who was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage. Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn’t re-enter the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight days on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the homeowner’s insurance company claiming undue mental anguish. Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson $500,000 for his anguish. We should all have this kind of anguish.
4TH PLACE:
Jerry Williams, of Little Rock, Arkansas, garnered 4th Place in the Stella’s when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor’s beagle – even though the beagle was on a chain in its owner’s fenced yard. Williams did not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.
3RD PLACE:
Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania because a jury ordered a Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113,500 after she slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. What ever happened to a person being responsible for his or her own actions?
2ND PLACE:
Kara Walton, of Claymont, Delaware sued the owner of a nightclub in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge, the jury said the nightclub had to pay her $12,000 plus dental expenses. Go figure.
1ST PLACE:
This year’s runaway 1st Place Stella Award winner is Mrs. Merv Grazinski, of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home from an OU football game and having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver’s seat to go to the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly, Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owner’s manual that she couldn’t actually leave the driver’s seat while the cruise control was set. The Oklahoma jury awarded her $1,750,000 plus a new motor home. Winnebago has actually changed their manuals as a result of this lawsuit, just in case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home.
As a society, are we getting more stupid or what?
By brain on 01.26.08 12:13 pm
Hi Brain, what you’ve said is poetic and very nice, however, if you get a chance please read Bastards & Boneheads ‘Canada’s Glorious Leaders, Past & Present’ by Will Ferguson.
You will find most of the world’s greatest leaders, were just that, leaders…real Bastards.
Hey, rub mine. — Garth
HA HA HA…Garth, not while the kids are in the room! Leasa
(sorry Gord) LOL
By Harry S on 01.26.08 11:04 am
I got to say something about your post, its too funny, Harry. I don’t see you on a Garth Turner fan club from where I stand. I see you on the Stephen Harper who ousted Garth Turner fan club. Correct me if I’m wrong, here but last I looked Garth is a Liberal? All New Con supporters should take good notice to that.
It reminds me of the brain drain that happened shortly before WWII. Einstein takes off nuke intel and the war was over before it began.
Its like… looking at David and Goliath and putting money on Goliath until you see David train. You can smooze dear readers all you like Harry with some fantasy of being “popular” by bragging up the guy who brings you the blog, but people know who you brag up most and what he’s done not just to Garth but this country so I’ll say it again. Grow up, or move on.
By Greg on 01.26.08 11:34 am
I think Garth has the stuff myself. If I was Garth, I would have asked Dion for no less than a cabinet role as minister of finance before walking over to the Liberal party. Its a great place to be if one one is to groom to become a PM (certainly worked for Martin), far better than a mere Calgary classroom taking economics the way Harper did. Ask Garth. He was finance minster once before!
By Leasa on 01.25.08 9:53 pm
Try reading your own reference Leasa, and then compare the article to my statement which covers years, not the current situation.
In fact, I am even going to admit I erred in stating there have been 500,000 Americans immigrate to Canada (that is over the years) because the figure is actually 3 million. In fact many Albertans came from the U.S. originally, as did many other Canadians.
The Canadian Encyclopedia
Any act of migration is an adventure and the adventuring spirit has at times characterized even the North American migrant. The interpenetration of the Canadian and American peoples has been such that no Canadian can have escaped its influence. That only 1.3% of the total Canadian population in 1951 (the most recent figure available) was American-born is deceptive. Because of prior official Canadian reluctance to recognize Americans as representing a distinct ethnic origin, Americans were not identified in the Canadian census. Not until 1991 could those of American origin choose to so label themselves, and even then they had to write in the designation.
Identifying Americans in the census material was extremely difficult, for too much of the statistical data relied on older listings of the “American-born,” obviously a limiting approach. Despite the statistical difficulties, the American is one of the oldest and – for all its fluctuations – one of the most enduring stocks in Canada. Perhaps 3 million Americans have immigrated to Canada over the years, beginning with the Yankee Planters to Nova Scotia of the mid-18th century and continuing through the LOYALISTS of the late 18th century. Two million Americans (about 20% of all immigrants) arrived in Canada in the 20th century. Thus, however unheralded, the United States has always been one of the 3 or 4 most important nations of origin for Canadian immigrants.
Disenchanted Americans flood immigration website
I wonder if Harper will blame Hillier for the suspension of detainee transfers.
Will Harper pull a Lunn and say he was never informed of the policy?
Will Harper pull a Baird and say “we’re getting things done”?
or
Will Harper pull a VanLoan and call for the immediate resignation of Garth?? After all aren’t all the Cons mis-steps, and mis-spokes Garth’s fault??
By Jennifer Smith on 01.25.08 9:08 pm
Excellent article and statements. Thank you.
Now, a little insight I gained about two decades ago from reading Max DiMont’s excellent book ‘Jews, God, and History’ (a paperback and excellent read).
DiMont noted that history, as we are presented it by textbook publishers and the MSM is written using the political-economic viewpoint. It tells us what politicians did, not what they had failed to do that brought about the need for action and change.
DiMont, on the other hand, writes history from the socio-economic viewpoint which explains how the problems arose, why they festered, and how the people coped with them until finally the worthless politicians decided there was campaign currency in their plight.
We are still being fed the former and that is why we take forever to see any progress.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It is a way of life for many politicos and the MSM.
Thanks again for a great link. I lived through all those events and remember them very, very well. I also remember the gross coverups by the U.S. Government to protect the perpetrators behind the assassinations.
First to mind is the Warren Commission Report on the JFK assassination. I think they used a Quija Board to write their findings. Gerald Ford was the Chairman as I recall?
If we picked a PM for sex appeal alone why not have George Clooney or Brad Pitt or someone run
LOL – since when is Harry S. an expert on what appeals to women? His version of real women are constantly bare foot and pregnant and go fetch me my beer.
You see, the Harry S. type are afraid of women who can think, who are smarter than him by the garbage he writes – most would be smarter than him.
Ya, right Harper is so tough that when someone disagrees with him he pouts and gets petty like a spoiled little girl. Harper is a girlie man. This is the sign of a very insecure man.
Harry S. – obviously you don’t like Liberals and you don’t like Dion because Harper told you to, so why bother commenting on this site other than to create havoc. Your comments a totally useless.
And, why does anyone here think they have a right to criticize Bill Muskoka because he moved here? It’s really none of your business.
(Harper is really a turn-off for women because he doesn’t like them.)
Catherine, the official rules of engagement for UN troops in the Bosnian was that they were not allowed to ‘fire first’, i.e. this was NOT a proactive combat mission. The troops were only allowed to RETURN fire. The fact that 26 Canadian troops were killed during their peace keeping mission is a separate issue. The stated, and practiced, rules of engagement were clearly ‘no fire first’.
The basic strategy that was employed during the Bosnia conflict by the UN troops was to insert themselves between the Serbs and Croats to stop the fighting and ethnic cleansing that was occuring. Of particular note is the case of Canadian peacekeeping troops in the Battle of the Medak Pocket in September 1993 when they came under intense shelling and machine gun fire and RESPONDED to their attackers. This was one of the most heroic actions of our peacekeepers and was a significant accomplishment in that area of conflict.
The History Channel has aired the documentary “The Battle of the Medak Pocket”. It is a terrific account of the stand off in September 1993 between the heavily armed Croat troops and the men of the Second Battalion of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry. The actions of our troops earned the men of the Princess Patricia’s 2nd Battalion a rare UN unit citation.
I hope this posting has clarified the facts surrounding the engagement of Canadian troops in Bosnia.
Harry,
if we offer you the leadership of the LPC, will you shut up?
No, Leesa, but I have a problem with Harry referring to Mr. Dion as impotent. We all know that Dion and his wife are adoptive parents. Many conservatives, Stephen Taylor for example, have claimed that Dion cannot appeal to the average voter because his wife is too smart and educated. Must a conservative leader’s wife be a dumb blonde? We all remember Maureen McTeer – indeed did Laureen Teskey not become Laureen Harper just before the last election – was it an effort to appeal to the ‘Harry’ voters?
Regarding Dion’s speech. I normally have little problem understanding him, but when he is flustered, and speaks too fast, I, too, cannot understand what he is saying. I noticed that on the news last night. Surely, he can take speech lessons and clear up his English?
It is a minor point, except for the fact that people will not follow someone they cannot comprehend!
Many of you may disagree with me on what I’m going to say next, but I can’t see a place of prominence in the Liberal party for Garth. His style doesn’t fit the structure. That is, unless he chooses to take his place in the order of things. Then there may be a place, but not in the inner circle methinks.
By Greg on 01.26.08 11:34 am
The only drawback I find Garth has is he should work on lowering the timbre of his voice. I find it a tad high pitched. Other than that, his diction is excellent, and his thinking 98% of the time is spot on (No I do not agree with Garth 100% of the time, but at least we can be pleasant about it).
I certainly garner more from his public statements than any of Harper’s minions, aka, parrots!
To date I have not found Harper or any of his Ministers (The only ones allowed to speak, and rarely at that) to exhibit anything akin to ‘Open and honest’, much less ‘accountable and transparent.’
Even Elizabeth May may have been better served if she had not aligned herself with Dion in the first place.
She, too, is vacillating now, and has retracted her characterization of NATO and Canadian forces as “Christian Crusaders.”
“In hindsight I would have phrased it differently,” said May.
Only under pressure did Elizabeth May acknowledge that she should not have used the term “Christian Crusaders” when referring to Canadian soldiers, diplomats and aid workers in Afghanistan.
Now we have two of the Green Party leaders in Nova Scota resigning over internal-party squabbles and pettiness.
This is why I say that we need completely new leadership. Some of us may have looked to Elizabeth May to do things differently, but if she cannot bring internal order to the Green Party, how can she bring order into the nation?
We need a new leader who can combine and integrate a community of interests into a common vision and purpose. We need a leader who will stick to their word when a promise is given so as to restore trust and confidence, and a belief that the future can indeed be different from the past same old, same old.
Hi Loraine, Have you ever done any t.v. work? Make-up is a must unless you want to look washed out. I can assure you that every P.M. in recent history has had their own personal ‘make-up’ person on staff. Fact is; one recent P.M. used to take his everywhere he went and if he was giving a talk, she’d sit in the audience and signal him if he needed to straighten his tie or hair etc. As for ‘grossly over weight’ who are you talking about? Yes, Mr. Harper has a tummy as does about 80% of the middle aged male population in this country. You’ve insulted a heck of a lot of men here, ya know? My man has a ‘Harper-like’ tummy and he’s a brilliant, sexy, wonderful man who has a wife who is a hell of a great cook. Ya got a problem with that?
By Leasa on 01.26.08 11:59 am <
Leasa, tell us you are NOT Harper’s Image Consultant? I mean really, if you tell Steve these things he will naturally believe them. I he was running around naked would you have the courage to tell him ‘Caesar, you have no clothes on!’?
As to we older gentlemen and rotound tummies. It is a disease Leasa, called ‘Furniture Disease’. a malady caused by gravity (similar in effect to sagging boobies, but we don;t have a Wonder Belt like the Wonder Bra to ‘lift us up.’), and occurs when a man’s chest falls into his drawers!
As to Laureen’s culinary skills, how would you know unless you have eaten at 24 Susex Drive? have you Leasa?
RCAF portrayed Harper and Laureen in the kitchen on their show last night. It was a Gut Buster! ROFLMAO!
As to the rest of the Tummy Brigade, let us not forget Myron Thompson, Peter Van Loan, John Baird, and numerous others. They are definitely the ‘heavyweights’ of the Brigade.
As a society, are we getting more stupid or what?
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.26.08 12:31 pm
………………………………….
I think you should go back to the USA and visit Tony Soprano’s psychiatrist … I think she may have time to help you as she did Tony .. both of you suffer from the same affliction .. both bitter sociopaths ..!!!
The Green Party recognizes that, and has always advocated fro a ‘Green Tax Shift.’ The principle is simple: raise taxes on polluting fossil fuels and reduce taxes on incomes and business profits,’Now, that is a plan with real ‘VISION!’
Bill, I’ve noticed we watch the same tv programs. Did you catch an interview on the Allan Gregg show last night with Jeffery Simpson from the G&M, about his new book “Hot Air”?
While he didn’t give credit to the Green Party for its “green tax shift” idea, he described a similar solution. He referred to the acid rain problem that was apparently solved during Mulroney’s term as PM, and compared those solutions to ones that we could apply to today’s GHG problems.
He says without a carbon tax, there will be no will to change.
Anyway, I thought your post was interesting in light of the interview I saw last night. I may even go out and by Simpson’s book!
MP Garth is recognized to be a universal Canadian politician. Thank you MP Garth for providing us with this vibrant and vivacious forum. You are a winner in my books, and somebody who can help the Liberal party in their current funk. Go for it ..!!!
By Harry S on 01.26.08 11:04 am
Well, Harry, all be doggoned…I agree with you 100% on that comment.
Regarding Dion’s speech. I normally have little problem understanding him, but when he is flustered, and speaks too fast, I, too, cannot understand what he is saying. I noticed that on the news last night. Surely, he can take speech lessons and clear up his English?
It is a minor point, except for the fact that people will not follow someone they cannot comprehend!
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.26.08 1:12 pm
……………………………….
Q.E.D.
Well, Harry, all be doggoned…I agree with you 100% on that comment.
Should have read ‘I’ll be…’
Congratulations, Garth. I wish you well in all future endeavours. Be bold! Be strong! Be courageous! Don’t be afraid to step on the toes of old-line politicians! The people are looking for a leader, and your time may be very soon! Go for it!
By Ike on 01.26.08 11:39 am
I agree 100% as well Ike.
A true friend will calmly and discreetly point out a person’s errors. Then, as God said to Ezekiel, ‘You are free of further obligation’, it becomes the other person’s responsibility to act.
As Mohamed said, as well, ‘If you have a good thought and act on it, that is counted as a good deed.’; If you have a good thought and do not act on it, that is counted as a bad deed.’; If you have a bad thought and do not act on it, that is counted as a good deed.’; and ‘If you have a bad thought and act on it, that is counted as bad deed.’
Very simple concepts that define a person’s depth, or lack, of faith, and content of their character.
Liberals and Canada deserve better than Dion … and thankfully we have people like MP Garth in Parliament.
By Harry S on 01.26.08 12:31 pm
Okay Harry, I’ll ask this question of you. What is your opinion of Iggy? How about Bob Rae?
Ah. more of Harper’s ‘Open and Honest, Tranparent and Accountable’ style of goobernment!
Tories meet behind closed doors amid possible Afghan prisoner scandal
Facing a possible scandal over the handling of Afghan prisoners, federal Conservatives are meeting behind closed-doors in Ottawa to plot strategy for the resumption of Parliament.
The opposition charges the government covered up news that Canadian troops have stopped transferring Taliban prisoners to Afghan authorities for almost three months.
The Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois say the Tories were embarrassed after discovering that a
Yes Sir, we are still waiting Steve to see a sign you have a memory of your campaign promises.
Garth, I think it is safe to say that come tomorrow, Dion had better be leading the Liberals, the Official Opposition, in QP, and declare Harper’s so-called government’ disfuctional! Harper’s rep is well established. Time for Dion to establish his as a real leader. You know when I say this it has reached deep into my core beliefs. I have supported Dion out of a deep sense of fairness to the man, his intelligent approach, and chess like leadership. Now, unless you, or he can show us a valid reason not to call down this goobernment, it is Dion’s and the Liberal’s rep that is on the line. I hope you will convey that message to Stephane Dion in caucus asap, and before QP tomorrow.
This is an issue for the entire Parliament andf Canada as well, not a political one solely to cover Harper’s arrogant ass.
BTW, I got an email from my dear friend in our CF’s who just lost a dear friend to the Afghanistan war. he is pretty torn up over it, and he is a Vteran of more than two decades serving Canada. Time to act!
By slg on 01.26.08 12:52 pm
Thank you. I would be ROFLMAO to find out Harry’s ancestors immigrated here from the U.S.! Wouldn’t that be a HOOT?
Way back when the conservatives reunited themselves and went about the business of choosing a new leader, it looked to me like they might be onto something, actually being an alternative to the natural ruling party that was becoming ever more self-serving. I wasn’t convinced that they had chosen the best leader of the 3 contenders, but it looked like he’d won it fair and sqaure and deserved a chance. Then he ran his first election campaign – not exactly a picture of sainthood but no lower in the gutter than anybody else. And then he lost the election and I watched him during a TV interview and the flash bulb went off in my mind as he mused about maybe packing it in, sounding just like a little boy taking his bat and ball home because the other kids are being mean to him. My realization was that all this man wants his to get his hands firmly on the brass ring and the cookie jar – he knows exactly what he is going to do when he does, and we aren’t going to like it but it is no more than we deserve. Its like he has been nursing this grievance (and I don’t know what it is) for an awfully long time just waiting for the chance to set things right.
So, for that’s why I want to restore parliament’s power to limit the PMO’s excesses before a tyrant gets his/her hands on the office and it is too late. This awful event is as close as the next general election.
My ideal PM is one who is always looking over his shoulder and keeping the house happy. There will be lots more little questionable redirections of the public purse, and government will lurch along with changes happening slowly and incrementally and by and large people won’t get hurt. It won’t be efficient, and it will be expensive, and ministers of the crown will actually be responsible for their departments, and the PM will be what he should be, a gemeralist chairman of the board.
Oh well – those are my visions of the future – who knows, some of it may come to pass.
Now, lets talk about banning handguns! LOL
Catherine does realize that during WWII we had a Liberal government – Mackenzie King (a little strange as a person, no personality, no charisma) but did use the pillar approach and accomplished so much for Canada.
The concept of peacekeeping came long after the war – to try to prevent wars.
Duh.
By slg on 01.26.08 7:02 am
So slug, what you are saying that Afghanis are not worth helping! The fact that women were oppressed was a good thing for Liberal such as yourself.
Thanks for your Liberal clarification.
By Catherine on 01.26.08 5:28 am
You should ask Kim Campbell what she has to say about how Stephen Harper treats women. They are not kind words.
By brain on 01.26.08 12:13 pm
Brian, I don’t care what an ex politician says. My views are not swayed by headlines, commentators, nor ex-politicians. I make up my mind up by what I hear and see of the person and then my own research in the stories around them. But, yes, I understand that there some people are too lazy to do their own leg work – hence, one does see “voting blocks” in sections of our society…. Ma pappy, my religious leader, my teacher, my boss, etc “told me to vote for this person”.
Q.E.D.
By Harry S on 01.26.08 1:32 pm
Rather, Q.E.F. Harry! It is derived from the Greek ???? ???? ???????, which is then Latinized as ‘Quod erat faciendum’.
Euclid used this phrase to close propositions which were not precisely “proofs”, but rather exemplar constructions. The distinction between Q.E.D. and Q.E.F. is roughly equivalent to the distinction between a proof and an illustration of the proof.
Oops…bad HTML. Here is the corrected link
Tories meet behind closed doors amid possible Afghan prisoner scandal
The fact that women were oppressed was a good thing for Liberal such as yourself.
Thanks for your Liberal clarification.
By Catherine on 01.26.08 2:10 pm
Hey CC, you sound more Liberal than most Liberals. Better check your political beliefs FAST!
As for your digs with Cretien and lives lost in Bosnia, peace was restored in the best Canada could have tried. It was a UN mission and the international community had a full obligation and right to be there. The reality that our soldiers died without guns in their hands sent a message that could be heard around the world.
By brain on 01.26.08 12:13 pm
Brian, Chretien put our military into Bosnia ill-equipped. Please do some research into that mission. Equipping our military was much, much lower than their money in brown envelops scam.
Now, lets talk about banning handguns! LOL
By William Laidlaw on 01.26.08 2:09 pm
As someone who endured the Nutbars with handguns as a former American, my response is ‘Do it IMMEDIATELY!’
If people feel the need to fire handguns, then let someone open shooting ranges, provide the weapons on a rental basis, and the guns stay there locked up. The facility should be regulated by the law enforcement agency in authority.
There are places like Shooter’s World that have just such facilities. They have handgun, rifle, and archery ranges. You can rent any type of gun you want from a 22 pistol to a Thompson Machine Gun, or MACH 10 sub-muchine gun. My favorite is the Glock M-15 9mm, or the awesome .475 caliber Whildey. Bronson used one of those in Death Wish something. It is a beautifully crafted weapon.
There are also Public Ranges that are manned by the local Sheriff’s Department. There you can shoot until you heart is content, your shoulder is too sore, or you have a horrid ringing in your ears and have gone deaf. They have combat ranges for all types of weapons with popup targets, paintball competitions, etc.
When I moved to Canada over a decade ago, one of the greatest things was being able to walk any street without the concern some asshole would be popping off rounds. I can no longer do that.
Ban the DAMN THINGS now. If someone is caught smuggling them, then they are prosecuted, imprisoned for a minimum of 10 years, and then kicked out to the country of origin. That should increase Georgia’s population dramatically after ten years.
I personally sold all my weapons before I came to Canada because they were deemed illegal. I followed OUR laws and was pleased to do so. I felt no less a Man, nor slighted in the least. I even sold my father’s police service revolver to a known friend and gun dealer to make sure it did not fall into bad hands.
I still enjoy going to the range, but have not since I came here. I prefer long rifles at 1 km…that is markmanship to me. As a Marine we had to qualify at 1200 metres with plain iron sights. So do not label me Anti-Gun. I am anti-Moron, and anti-small dicked gangbanger!
I also used to greatly enjoy Trap & Skeet shooting. Again. a precison sport that harms no living thing, other than a few mosquitoes or flies in the blast path. LOL
Handguns are not a necessary weapon. Personally, for home defense I have several very sharp swords that do the job quite cleanly and without disturbing my neighbors, or risk a stray round harming them. My second weapon of choice is the Cross Bow!
Besides, if I am forced to defend my family then I want to look into the bastard’s eyes as the sword slices him to shreds inside. Must be the Scot in me and maybe a little William Wallace genetics. LOL
Equipping our military was much, much lower than their money in brown envelops scam.
By Catherine on 01.26.08 2:43 pm
Prove it CC!
Worth a read on a lazy weekend….
INTEGRATE THIS!
SPP Watch
SPP WATCH makes the links between daily news items, new government initiatives and the ongoing Security and Prosperity Partnership talks between Canada, Mexico and the United States. As well as regular SPP updates, we will continue to post new reports, interviews and multimedia presentations critical of what is sometimes called the “deep integration” of North America. The site is updated regularly so visit often.
Here’s what went up on Integrate This! in the past week:
Group calls for major call-in day of action against the “new” security certificate law, Bill C-3
The Coalition Justice for Adil Charkaoui is calling for a national day of action TODAY (Friday, January 25) against the “new” security certificate law — against secret trials, deportation to torture, and a two-tiered justice system. (more… )
Council of Canadians plans Energy Day of Action on February 2
Canadians experience long, cold winter months. As the snow starts to fly, our thoughts turn to staying warm. To do that, we need energy to heat our homes. But right now, Canada does not have a national energy strategy that addresses where our energy comes from, where it is going, or the high price of environmental devastation that can come with producing it. (more… )
French government asks Washington to drop charges against Khadr as Pentagon refuses UN access to trial
Stephen Harper’s approval of the U.S. Military Commissions Act, under which Omar Khadr will be tried this May, is untenable. Despite our Prime Minister’s best efforts to prop up Bush’s kangaroo court for trying “illegal enemy combatants,” the case for bringing the Canadian citizen home for a fair trial grows stronger each day. (more… )
Poll finds Canadians reject enhanced driver’s licences as Privacy Commissioner releases discussion paper on identity issues
British Columbia will become the first province to offer an “enhanced driver’s licence” to Canadian citizens in that province to meet new U.S. security demands amidst widespread public concern with the new technology. Meanwhile, Canada’s Federal Privacy Commissioner has just released a discussion paper on identity and privacy issues to help Canadians understand the post-9/11 security environment. (more… )
Waging the war at home: The Manley Report
In October last year, Toronto Star columnist Thomas Walkom wrote that the members of Harper’s handpicked Independent Panel on Canada’s Future Role in Afghanistan proved that the war is not about Afghanistan, “It is about the U.S.” Four of the five appointees, “have been intimately involved with the problems of Canada-U.S. relations, and in particular with the campaign to convince Americans that Canada is not soft on terror,” he wrote. (more… )
Don’t set us up with the Server in the Sky
In a move that runs counter to recommendations by the Arar Commission, the RCMP is in discussions with the FBI and other state security agencies to set up an international database of biometric information on terrorist and criminal suspects. (more… )
For more information on the SPP, please visit http://www.IntegrateThis.ca .
Tories meet behind closed doors amid possible Afghan prisoner scandal
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.26.08 2:27 pm
Followed By: HOW TO LIE TRUTHFULLY
Afghan prisoner scandal sends Tories into embarrassing backpedal–3 hours ago
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5i649Z3Hk_tboX8aFnRXXxsMEtwPw
What does Petey [Pee-Der] MacKay say?
…National and military security, no les! Stephen Harper first:
“”On a matter of national and global security like this we will never make a decision based on polls,” Harper told the Tory gathering at an Ottawa convention centre.
“We will make our decision based on what is right.” End Stephen Harper
Defence Minister Peter MacKay, who was in Afghanistan when the transfers were halted last Nov. 6, refused to say when he was informed of the decision and accused Dion of being reckless.
“I’m not going to do anything that’s going to endanger the lives of Canadian Forces personnel or Afghans involved in this operation,” MacKay said on his way into the Conservative party rally.
To which we reply…Heh Heh Heh …Sure!
That should satisfy Amnesty International, BCCLA, and CPC vacuum-sealed doorknob supporters.
Bill-Muskoka
I was trained to use firearms to inflict death and despondency on Her Majesty’s enemies, and some of those tools are a lot of fun to operate.
That being said, I find very little place for the handgun in this society outside of the pistol range, though when I worked alone in the high arctic I found it a comforting thing to have a firearm at hand, and a handgun was less awkward to tote than a rifle.
The same is true for the semi-automatic rifle. It was developed for killing people, not moose, and I am hard-pressed to find a place for them in our society either.
As for the firearms registry – as implemented it was a colossal waste of time and money – an object lesson in how not to do it. All the information that was collected (and misrecorded) was sitting on file at every dealer, and it was ignored.
So what do we do about guns on the streets? It is an urban not a rural problem – (it would be difficult to find a criminous firearm in Hunstville, though there will be plenty that are in violation of one or more of the regulations) – and confined largely to a segment of society that is marginalized and feels immune to prosecution. I don’t like gun play on our streets, but so far my urban relatives are much more worried about burglary, robbery and assault than they are of being shot at, so perhaps its being played up by the media. Perhaps longer sentences with less chance of an early release are in order, but are we willing to pay for the prisons?
These are tough questions, and as our country becomes more urbanized and less rural, we are going to have to change our laws and customs to accomodate our new world – let us pray for wisdom in our legislators and judges.
Okay Harry, I’ll ask this question of you. What is your opinion of Iggy? How about Bob Rae?
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.26.08 1:50 pm
For me, either one would have been better than Dion. I think the polls would be quite different if Iggy had been elected as leader because he is more center then the others. Right now under Dion or even Rae there are now three parties on the left fighting over the center left vote. Where does the centre and centre right voters go as the left scares them?
By Van on 01.26.08 4:49 pm
Thank you for your input. I would have chosen Rae myself. Iggy is too ‘war prone American’ for my tastes.
Regardless, I do sincerely appreciate your comment.
To me the issue remains having a government where ‘Good ideas are accepted regardless of where they come from’, and not a power hungry meglamaniac like Harper. Unlike many,I am not out to punish the Liberals for JC’s offenses, but I am also not willing to replace the office of PM with a man who I cannot trust, and find psychologically disturbed (and that is based on formal training and experience). Isimply want the best forMy Canada, which I love more dearly than anyone could know without knowing me face to face.
Something happened along the road to the future that took away true Conservative values and replaced them with an attitude akin to to too many hockey players…Aggression, no compromise, and hate. This is not good for Canada, or for Canadians.
Everyone has good ideas, and no one has all the answers. No party has all the answers, much less one person.
I am a realist, and while I support the Green’s platform of a sustainable economy, I am also against some of their anti-nuclear positions. That is a well established and safe technology now.
We should be making the best use of it for energy generation, along with wind and hydro generation. I would include refuse burning and generation from methane gas in landfills. I am also seriously in favour of major reductions in non-essential consumption like idiotic, ego based, signage, office building burning lights 24/7, and morons who leave their store doors open with the air conditioning running full bore. I would mandate recyclable packing as well. We toss out more weight in packaging than the product often weighs too much of the time. Society is a PIG when it comes such issues.
Unfortunately, too many people live in FUD and discount viable options that work.
Quite frankly, it is Hell sometimes being an informed and independent thinker. LOL
As I have said numerous times, I am a Centrist. I see the ’cause and effect’ of government programs, and all I really ask is ‘Let’s do it right the first time, and be ready to revise the program when it is obvious we need to. I am also a big supporter of Sunset Laws.
Have a good evening. I am going to go make dinner for my wife and I.
For me, either one would have been better than Dion. I think the polls would be quite different if Iggy had been elected as leader because he is more center then the others. Right now under Dion or even Rae there are now three parties on the left fighting over the center left vote. Where does the centre and centre right voters go as the left scares them?
Van on 01.26.08 4:49 pm
It is not difficult to see why Ignatieff would be popular with the far right since, on a range of issues, he is more of a U.S. republican.
He was the candidate during the Liberal leadership campaign that engaged in U.S. style negative campaigning which the new Conservatives have found useful in their own anti-Dion negative ads.
These are excellent reasons for the Canadian pro-American right to like Ignatieff expecially with his support for U.S. imperialism.
As a “center” positioned non-partisan Ignatieff is too far to the right for me. I believe the right terrifies the center and the center-left and the left simply scares them.
As to the rest of the Tummy Brigade, let us not forget Myron Thompson, Peter Van Loan, John Baird, and numerous others. They are definitely the ‘heavyweights’ of the Brigade.
By Bill-Muskoka on 01.26.08 1:28 pm
Yup, there are tummies on both sides…there is no political divide. There’s nothing wrong with a tummy…especially if it’s earned!
As for your cutting someone to shreds…that is interesting. Before I met my husband, just days after I buried my first husband, some nut was threatening me. I don’t know why, I was just a young woman who did nothing but work, go to school at night and take care of her little one. That was my life. Well, this nut whoever he was, one night lobbed a brick through my front window. I slept with a baseball bat beside my bed and kept my little one close. If he would have broken in, I swear, I would have killed him with that bat. The police parked outside my house for several nights…and after the window incident I never heard from him again. Yes…Bill…people must be prepared to defend themselves.
One thing I’ve been meaning to ask you Bill…you seem to be pretty good at computers, right? I need to build a website and of course want to do it on my own…where do I start? Once I know where to start, I can take it from there.
Thanks, Leasa
“Liberals on this forum want a strong, overbearing central government but only a weak, mewling leader …. while …
Conservatives want a strong and principled leader and a lean and efficient central government. Who’s vision of Canada will Canadians prefer ???!!!” –By Harry S
Unless the Liberals can come up with a decisive and principled leader fast, we may have little choice. For some, it might mean passing on this election, and staying home instead of voting. There is a huge vacuum of leadership right now, and yet most Canadians would like to believe in some one rather than to believe in no one.
We have got nothing to believe in if all we have is a leader who must wait for the next poll, the next budget, or the next throne speech before deciding.
This is in essence allowing the CONS to carry on as if they had a majority.
What Canadians need is an alternative government in waiting with a clear sense of priorities and direction as to what they would do once elected.
I am not sure that Dion is too left wing. Nobody really knows for sure where he stands. We thought we knew where he stood on Afghanistan, until the Manley Report.
Now we don’t know. One might be tempted to be somewhat wistful that John Manley had run for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada, things could be different. If we had either Manley or Ignatieff or Rae, we would at least know where they stand, and I am confident that we would have had an election by now.
With Dion, we are left in perpetual limbo. It is not a very enjoyable place to live.
If Canadians felt that we had a real alterenative, I am also confident that the numbers wanting an election now would rise from 1 in 5 to at least 3 in 5.
We may have to bite the bullet. The longer we wait, the more despair sets in, and the troops become demoralized.
We need a leader who can inspire, ignite a fire, and lift us out of the mire.
Garth has been patient, but for how long must we keep waiting with a sense of powerlessness and ineptitude, and with no one to lead a credible charge that could take us onward, forward and upward?
One thing I’ve been meaning to ask you Bill…you seem to be pretty good at computers, right? I need to build a website and of course want to do it on my own…where do I start? Once I know where to start, I can take it from there.
Thanks, Leasa
By Leasa on 01.26.08 7:48 pm
Leasa, on a most serious note. I would prefer to take the Ghandi apporach, but have too much experience with real life to negate taking the hardass approach when warranted. Ghandi also knew his opponent, and the Brits had a thing called Honour, which he carefully, and successfully played to his own advantage.
Now, as to creating a website. First you need server space. That should be a part of your ISP’s provisions. The key is to create an index page, and then it calls the other pages via HTML language.
Yes, I know computers rather well actually. My first suggestion is to not have fear of the technology. Second you will need to apply your mind to learning the HTML and XHTML codes
Your web browser (I use NetScape) will have a Composer function that will allow you to create web pages and then upload them via FTP to your ISP’s server.
Research those aspects and let me know when you have it comfortable? You can also analyze web pages using the View-Page Source and Page Info functions in your browser. Look at the code, grasp the deyails, and in a few days it will make a lot of sense.
Bon programma ma ami! LOL
I believe the right terrifies the center and the center-left and the left simply scares them.
By C. B. Innes on 01.26.08 7:37 pm
They do not terrify me. I simply know how they truly think, and what their warped sense of truth is.
They are fanatics and have a God complex that comes with it. The far left is just plain whacky in my opnion. They have little real life experience in the negative, or Dark Side of life, The Centrists understand reality, have a caring nature, but are not fools. No wonder we are a minority in this nutball world, eh? LOL
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 01.26.08 3:09 pm
Harper’s next employment will probably be replacing Jim Carey in the lead role in ‘Liar, Liar II’ the sequel. LOL
Support Canadian actors, but not as PM!
It would be difficult to find a criminous firearm in Hunstville, though there will be plenty that are in violation of one or more of the regulations
No, actually Bill (if you will please excuse the nickname which I prefer, albeit, William is one of the most honourable namesone could bear….It could well stand for Will-I-Am, but literally and traditionally means Helmet or Defender of Truth and Justice) you would be amazed at the level of crime here in the Muskoka. Granted, much of it comes to us here from the GTA. We are viewed as a ‘free zone’ for Toronto punks. Unfortunately for them the OPP does not share their view, not do the year round residents.
Oh, and yes we have homicides, beheadings, and terrorist camps in this neck of Ontario. The predominant crimes are illegal drugs, drunk drivers, and domestic violence.
This is getting hilarious … LOL
Liberals on this forum want a strong, overbearing central government but only a weak, mewling leader ..
.. while …
Conservatives want a strong and principled leader and a lean and efficient central government.
Who’s vision of Canada will Canadians prefer ???!!!
By Harry S on 01.26.08 12:19 pm
In order for all Canadians to receive equality we need a strong central government. It is necessary for the protection of individual rights against the regional focus of provincial governments and the pull of Quebec Seperatists. This was our original federalist structure from 1867.
Mulroney tried to rip Canada apart with his failed Meech and Charlottetown Accords and giving birth to the Bloc and Reform. He didn’t care about the Charter of Rights and Freedom or individual rights in a united Canada. But he must do one better that Trudeau, get Quebec to sign onto the Constitution. So the country was to be partitioned to appease Quebec as their own Nations.
Harper has continued with Canada’s dismantling and destruction as one Canada with individual rights for all and a strong central government that sets the standards.
On Human Rights Harper said: “Human rights commissions, as they are evolving, are an attack on our fundamental freedoms and the basic existence of a democratic society,” says Stephen Harper, president of the National Citizens’ Coalition. “It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary stuff.” BC Report, January 11, 1999
In other words, there should be no recourse for anyone being mistreated, discriminated against, or even being abused by another nations.
“Whether Canada ends up as one national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement is, quite frankly, secondary in my opinion.” Harper Reform MP speaks at NCC Dinner.
Oh my, the flip flops!! Harper on Reform’s reason for advocating keeping the GST “If you rip it out, you’ve created a huge tax hole, you have to have a defined tax alternative”-Hamilton Spectator, April 23rd,1992 Page A9, by Canadian Press.
We have a destroyer of Canada as our PM. So what are we going to do about it?
And THIS Harry S is what you call a leader? Are you on crack or something?
Give me honest, principled Dion any day.
Off topic (no time – or is that “time of day” – for politics these days):
Leasa, I spotted this today during a browse, so if you’re reading, might I make this alternate suggestion? Very often community colleges – and even high schools – offer evening courses entitled “Build Your Own Website” and the like. Perhaps you could take one of those courses in your area, but in advance of signing on (maybe during the previous semester), approach the instructor and offer your website as a class project for the next go round. With the “many hands make light work” approach, not to mention the many minds and ideas set to a singular problem, you could end up with a bang-up solution, not to mention have a lot of questions answered and potential solutions critiqued along the way. I would expect that the end result would give you a good foundation to use and/or expand from.
(
... fading again into the background as an occasional participant ...)Give me honest, principled Dion any day.
By Emilie on 01.27.08 1:35 am
………………………………….
Dion is a dud .. and besides, most Canadians don’t want another Liberal prime minister from Quebec … end of story .. suck it up ..!!!
Give me honest, principled Dion any day.
By Emilie on 01.27.08 1:35 am
Right on, Emilie! Principles go a long way in my books. And I’m not a Liberal (yet).
Emilie, cool the rhetoric! Let cooler heads, not hot-heads, prevail! Believe in the ultimate justice of your cause, and you will not need to get emotional to try and to make it happen. That only hinders your cause.
Peace! Honour! Calmness! Courage!
Mulroney tried to rip Canada apart with his failed Meech and Charlottetown Accords and giving birth to the Bloc and Reform. He didn’t care about the Charter of Rights and Freedom or individual rights in a united Canada. But he must do one better that Trudeau, get Quebec to sign onto the Constitution. So the country was to be partitioned to appease Quebec as their own Nations.
By Emilie on 01.27.08 1:35 am
I was never a big fan of Mulroney but this is totally uncalled for. These strategies were attempts to bring the country together and even if they were misguided to impute the intentions in this way is one of the reasons that I have certain Liberals no more rational in their partisanship than Conservatives.
This “angry woman” or “angry man” syndrome seems to cloud the partisan mindset.
By Dube on 01.27.08 10:54 am
Thanks Dube, I just might do something like that if I get too lost. Our community college start ups are Sept. & Jan. I spent 10 years of my life going to night school to study all things gerontology, we are so busy now that I don’t know if I could commit to a course and see it through. But, as a last resort…I will! Leasa