“You look taller on TV.”
With that, the hulking OPP officer wished me a nice day, handed me a fat ticket and strode to his cruiser. I watched him melt into the passing convoy of trucks, and then contemplated the looming snowbanks at mile 626 eastbound on the 401. Sigh. Just another Sunday in the life of an MP.
The fast lane to Ottawa this week also leads me into the unknown. Monday at noon the debate over Afghanistan begins. Stephane Dion kicks it off and while I have not seen his speech, I’m betting it will strike a statesmanlike note, laud the bellicose Conservatives for moderating their stance on a never-ending mission, and pledge his support for the compromise unveiled late last week. Or not.
There’s a remote chance he’ll stick to his no-shooting-after-2009 stance and propose an amendment to the amended Con motion which was in response to the Lib amendment to the original motion. (Pay attention.) But that would precipitate a confidence vote and, since the Dippers and the Bloc will be voting against everything, regardless of what it says, an election would ensue. My sense to date is that both Dion and Harper want to avoid putting the Afghan question to the people of Canada, so compromise is in the air.
The current thinking on the war will be made more clear, I am sure, where we have our strategy session tomorrow, as will the Liberal response to Tuesday’s budget. Is it time to bring this government down over economic issues? After all, it has turned into the most profligate, biggest-spending government in history. Bye-bye surplus. It screwed income trust investors after promising them it never would. It fast-tracked two GST cuts for political purposes and as a result gutted the government’s ability to cope with a looming recession. For those three sins alone, the finance minister and his boss should be held accountable.
As you may know, there are three confidence votes. The first, on a BQ amendment, is Thursday at 5:30 pm. The government will survive that. The next is the following Monday at 6:30 pm and the final vote comes the next evening at 5:30. If the government is to fall on this budget, it will be on one of those two nights.
Whether it does or not depends on several factors. Will the NDP or the BQ, or both, support Harper? Will the Harperites throw enough new cash at Quebec to secure the separatists’ troth? Will the Dion Liberals vote against the budget, or abstain and let it pass by? Will the hawkish Dion be convinced by the arguments many of his dovish MPs are making to any reporter who will listen?
More to the point for me, will the budget be worth supporting? Will it provide some meaningful support to people now people whomped by the manufacturing crisis, and some insightful programs to help us stave off the US recession? Will it be a green budget, forward-looking as last week’s BC document was? Will it promise income tax relief to middle-class families now struggling with runaway gas prices, higher food costs and dismal job prospects? What of the EI surplus? Any new plans on how we deal with nine million baby boomers galloping towards retirement? Will the government try to repair any of the damage it has done by ripping up the Kelowna Accord with aboriginals, the child care agreement with the provinces or the Kyoto Accord with the international community? Will be getting a family tax return or income-splitting, or action on that promise to help autistic kids or the one to reduce capital gains tax on rollover investments?
After all, the facts are simple. When the Harper Conservatives came to office 25 months ago there was a $14 billion surplus, little inflation, record job creation and a competitive dollar. Today there is a hole where the money used to be, 300,000 lost factory jobs, rising prices and a dollar that’s putting exporters, manufacturers, tourist operators and retailers out of business. Yes, the GST was cut, but against the advice of every economist worth listening to, since chopping income taxes, not consumption taxes, is what a modern and progressive country needs.
Should Mr. Harper and Mr. Flaherty not be held to account for this crime?
Or do I have to call in Constable Big?
233 comments ↓
Yea,let’s also blame the conservatives for the lousy weather.A 14 billion surplus,for those who can’t figure it out,means that we were being OVERTAXED by 14 billion dollars.Lost factory jobs are an unfortunate part of the “global economy”Quit shopping at Walmart and start demanding homegrown products,instead of whining.No party has addressed this problem.As for the dollar,it goes up and down.Take advantage of the good times,and prepare for tougher times.That’s the sign of a good manager.Got to go lieberals,I need to prepare for all your “the sky is falling”comments!
Difficult decisions. I wish you and your collegues wisdom and courage. (hope you can claim the ticket on travel expenses LOL)
Garth,
Eloquent speech even though it`s void of solutions or even suggestions.
Please fill in between the lines on what the Liberal solutions are, thx v
Bye-bye surplus
screwed income trust investors
two GST cuts
cash at Quebec
people whomped by the manufacturing crisis
stave off the US recession
income tax relief
runaway gas prices, higher food costs
dismal job prospects
Kelowna Accord
Kyoto Accord
autistic kids
capital gains tax
Wown sorry to hear this Garth. Life in the fast lane! I have been guilty of getting where I need to go quite often.
Stay the course because you’re on track.
I would like to send an attachment but I don’t know how. Anybody care to advise me? Thanks
Hey Garth, Good to see you are tempering your “this gov’t has got to go” stance, and will wait to see what the budget proposes before passing judgement. Also good to see you are following what the polls suggest is a surge in Con support. I’m surprised you were not getting that feedback in your town halls, although your attendees may not be totally representative of the general public.
Still with Con support pushing 40%, that would suggest over 60% not supporting the Con agenda, I am surprised you are not more strident and simply saying you will vote to bring down this government..
A 14 billion surplus,for those who can’t figure it out,means that we were being OVERTAXED by 14 billion dollars.
By Bob R. on 02.24.08 7:59 pm
The only reason we are “OVERTAXED” now is because you were “UNDERTAXED” in the 80′s to the tune of $500 Billion.
Once the debt is paid off – then you can bitch about being overtaxed. Unless, of course, you feel that it’s fine to leave it to your kids and grandkids to clean up. (which wouldn’t surpise me.)
Garth, I am not one of the “Trolls” but I would really like an answer to a question.
Can you find out how much of the budget is set aside for the Auditor General’s office?
I mean after the Neo-Con’s table the budget.
Out here in the sticks we don’t get to see any of the house keeping parts of the government’s business.
I am truly interested in how much the A.G. gets to scrutinize the whole operation of the state.
I fear that it is not an appropriate amount for the job to be affectively done.
Will you help me?
As for bringing down the Neo-Cons, as they say on TV. “Just do it.”
. . . What of the EI surplus? Any new plans on how we deal with nine million baby boomers galloping towards retirement? . . .
A few years ago I read the main reason Bill Clinton was able to balance the budget was that he transferred funds from US Social Security (thereby bankrupting it), conveniently lost a few billion and made himself look really good.
The US Social Security is roughly equivalent to CPP, OAS and GIS. IF there is an EI surplus, I have no doubt that jumbo jimbo and sneaky snivellin’ stevie will find a way to move it somewhere else (to cover their butts).
The link I posted earlier, re: a planned total economic collapse on or around Sept./08, if right, will put the would-be retirees of 2015 kind of moot. Basically, most folk will have taken forced early retirement, because their jobs will have gone.
Clearly, there IS something going on well behind the scenes; the average person doesn’t have a clue. Carney was put in charge of something which needs a much more experienced person, and he simply doesn’t cut the mustard.
I guess the reason for the forthcoming financial meltdown is simply a ruse, to bring in the SPP, NAU and Amero. NAFTA will be quietly scrapped as well, as it will have served its’ purpose.
Wars in other parts of the world won’t be given too much attention anymore, as people have to be able to do with a lot less.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
I’m looking forward to seeing the Liberal election platform/plan, when the government falls and the election is on!
Hi Garth,
There is a method to their madness, as you well know. They are doing this to put themselves, or a future government, in the position of having to drastically reduce government spending, particulary on the bureaucracy… exactly what they have planned to do all along…reduce taxes and the size of government.
Unfortunately, it comes on the backs of the First Nations, women, the poor, and the environment, through a host of cuts in funding and program cancellations. But, what do they care, as long as their corporate buddies are spared any problems and where their future careers lie.
Bring ‘em down!
How about sending in the RCMP to take care of Harper’s & Flaherty’s crimes against Canada and its citizens.
I suggest a subsequent extraordinary rendition, especially for their crimes against income trust investors.
A 14 billion surplus,for those who can’t figure it out,means that we were being OVERTAXED by 14 billion dollars. – By Bob R. on 02.24.08 7:59 pm
No, it means the Liberals were serious about getting deficits & currency under control and restructuring lower interest on national debt which only surplus’s can provide, along with the fact that only a highly clueless lemming that follows an old, worn out Harper line believe the disappearance of surplus’s and/or deficits magically work better.
By got rope? on 02.24.08 8:32 pm
Some damage, as they say, is irreversible.
By PHIL ROMANENKO on 02.24.08 8:48 pm
Allen Gregg’s Strategic Council polling is crooked and has been consistently so since he left his job as a Fed Con campaign organizer.
All I can say for certain is:
The NDP is a blind faith organization
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/02/ndp-is-blind-faith-organization.html
Garth … forget about the Dion Liberals. The real question is how will you vote on the Afghanistan motion and the upcoming Budget??
I hope you won’t toe the party line, or abstain, or even worse walk out of the HoCs as you did last time.
I saw you on CPAC as you sheepishly walked out, and I felt sorry for you .. you the independent-minded MP who represents the interests of your Halton constituents.
Stay true to your core values, Garth … be your own man and vote as your conscience dictates .. for better or for worse.
After all Garth, you did tell us you were still a ‘red tory’ ..!!
As for bringing down the Neo-Cons, as they say on TV. “Just do it.”
By A.R.Wainwright on 02.24.08 9:02 pm
Garth, I know there are 4 bi-elections coming in mid March & the Liberals would like to stay the course until then but I’m almost sure that’s what the neo-cons are trying to prevent. I don’t believe Canadians will want to wait much longer. It’s not fair to them.
I think its time for Mr. Dion to go with his gut feeling on bringing this government down as quickly as possible before Canada is lost beyond repair. Please pass it on to Mr. Dion that hopefully he will not cave in to the MP’s in his own party by their advice in telling him to wait if the budget is not acceptable for all Canadians. In my view, if he continues to listen to them, that will only make him look weak & could cost him his job.
We are in the 21st Century & the younger generation sees politics a lot different than we did so following the old method of governing is not working in their eyes. They want action now. Obama is setting a good example of what this generation of young voters expect from their President & I believe young Canadians expect CHANGE the same here in Canada. I firmly believe that Mr. Dion is the man to bring in those changes.
BTW, I hate to say this but abstaining again by propping the neo-cons will be portrayed by Stevie & the bias Media as a sign of weakness & the fact is, that Canadians will start believing “ DION Is NOT A LEADER” with the deliberate lies of Harper & the bias Media.
I have to agree with A.R. Wainwright on this one. “Just do it” Hand it to the voters & see what happens. $350. Million might be money well spent. That’s my theory & I’m sticking to it.
Have a good evening,
dubya and co. don’t care what the Iraq and Af’stan wars cost; they are pawns in this game, told what to do and when to do it by the higher ups.
This mission is costing Cdns. plenty. As long as harper is given a free rein, the troops will be there for an unlimited time.
http://tinyurl.com/2w4p26
I can’t remember the title of a Doors song, but one of the lines goes,
“No one here gets out alive!”
$10 billion of what some think was over taxation really was consumption tax on purchases, i.e. GST.
Interesting, isn’t it, the damage Hapless and Flim Flam have done to the economy because “it is good politics”.
Because of the downturn in the economy, the remaining 5% GST will not generate it’s 5% because people have cut back on purchases.
Do any of you get the picture on how crappy this no-longer-new government’s bumbling economic policies have harmed individuals ability to spend, save, support their families, own homes, etc.?
Another Conservative mess for the Liberals to clean up.
Let opposition fight each other, PM told
Longtime adviser sketches plan for electoral success
Norma Greenaway
The Ottawa Citizen
Tom Flanagan, a University of Calgary political science professor and longtime confidant of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, says Mr. Harper must play political hardball if he hopes to win re-election.
Tom Flanagan, a University of Calgary political science professor and longtime confidant of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, says Mr. Harper must play political hardball if he hopes to win re-election.
Tom Flanagan, a longtime political confidant of Stephen Harper, has some advice for the federal Conservatives if they hope to win more elections. Keep the opposition parties “at each other’s throats” and play hardball.
“We cannot win by being Boy Scouts,” he writes in a 10-point recipe for electoral success that he dubs the Ten Commandments in his new book.
Mr. Flanagan says Mr. Harper’s Conservatives owe their minority victory in 2006 to NDP leader Jack Layton’s relentless assaults on the Paul Martin Liberals, and the NDP’s nonstop pitch that the Liberal party deserved time in the penalty box.
“No matter how well-designed our campaign had been, it would have been hard for us to win if the NDP had not held up its end,” Mr. Flanagan concludes in Harper’s Team, Behind the Scenes in the Conservative Rise to Power.
He says continued Tory electoral success hinges, among other things, on keeping the centre-left, or non-Conservative, forces divided; not straying too far to the political right; and playing political hardball.
Many Liberals share Mr. Flanagan’s analysis of the NDP contribution to the Tories’ 2006 election win, and they remain bitter about it to this day. So do some New Democrats and their social-activist backers, several of whom have angrily questioned whether the gain of 10 NDP seats in 2006 was worth the price of getting a Conservative government.
The people around Mr. Layton, however, are unapologetic. They say the blame rests with the Liberal record and a poorly executed campaign, and they make clear they have no intention of pulling punches against political opponents, and that includes the Liberals.
“We didn’t set ourselves up to be the Liberal enabler,” said NDP strategist Brad Lavigne. “That’s not why we exist.”
The three byelections in Quebec last week demonstrate how fractured and unpredictable the political landscape has become. In a province once owned by the federal Liberals, the party was shut out. The NDP scored a stunning victory in the Liberal stronghold of Outremont in Montreal, the Conservatives upset the Bloc in the rural riding of Roberval-Lac-Saint-Jean, and the Bloc hung on in Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot after an unexpectedly strong challenge from the Conservatives.
Political analyst Alan Whitehorn said Conservatives are keenly aware that a strong NDP works to their advantage.
For example, he said, the three back-to-back majority victories scored by Jean Chrétien’s Liberals occurred when the NDP vote in pivotal Ontario had sunk below 12 per cent. In 2004 and 2006, the NDP vote bounced back to its normal 18 and 19 per cent in the province. Mr. Whitehorn said the result was a minority Liberal victory in 2004, when Liberal scare tactics about a Harper win sent NDP voters to the Liberal camp, and a minority Tory government in 2006.
In his book, Mr. Flanagan concedes Canada is not ripe for conservatism, and that the party’s best ticket to continued electoral success rests with a fractured opposition.
But as long as the non-Conservative federal vote gets divvied up among the Liberals, the NDP, the Green party and the Bloc, the Conservatives stand to gain — just as the Chrétien Liberals benefited from vote-splitting on the right before the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives merged in 2003.
“The Conservatives win if the other four parties are at each other’s throats; they lose if they line up together, particularly if NDP and Green voters swing to the Liberals,” Mr. Flanagan wrote.
Conservative Senator Hugh Segal said keeping the opposition parties at loggerheads in the coming months is easier said than done.
“I wouldn’t take it as a slam dunk,” Mr. Segal said in an interview. “When the numbers suggest they have a reason to work together, they will.”
Not surprisingly, Mr. Flanagan’s candid — albeit incomplete — telling of story of the Harper team through two leadership races and two federal elections has apparently landed with a thud in the Prime Minister’s Office, which is not known for openness about much of anything, let alone strategy.
© The Ottawa Citizen 2007
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=06ea9c5d-4f08-431e-acac-4ef2a0e56d16
Dear Garth
If the Bloc and NDP are hot to trot for an election, then I think the Liberals should seize the opportunity. The longer this bunch of rat weasels are in power the more damage they do.
If you don’t think the electorate wants an election, then get out there and show us why we need one.
Please! I’m begging you!
Just be thankful you weren’t tazed.
Death and taxes are final, all the rest is cheesecake.
Canada will get through it, one MP at a time if necessary, but Canada WILL come through.
Tim, some neo-con is on the Globe talking about how Canada is doing so well it can afford to go into deficit.
Tim, can you get your message to the current government? Do they even care to hear from you? Do they give you an answer beyond a form letter thanking you for your interest?
Didn’t think so. You can say it, but they won’t back you up Tim. Sad, isn’t it?
Garth, Stephane Dion has third option – voting for the budget.
You say Stephen Harper squandered the surpluses, I say not.
While I agree, that in the 2007 budget, he did focus more on Quebec’s woes (their own doing btw), he also did the transfer payments to all provinces and lowered taxes and paid down our debt by heck of allot more than the Lib’s proposed 3 Billion per year.
Because he paid down the national debt by more than 37 Billion, he saved Canada service (interest) payments. This alone saves the government costs which doesn’t do anyone any good (except maybe the lenders).
And I for one will see income tax relief for our family when I do my taxes in the next few weeks, thanks to the Stephen Harper/Jim Flaherty Conservative budgets. I will be able use the 1000$ employment tax credit, the 1200$ transit credit, and the 15% lower tax rate.
This coupled with the GST cut of 2% may only save us 1500$ or so dollars – but, it will go back into the economy.
Now, for you people bitching about Canada’s economy -
My family buys North American vehicles! So you Libbers and Dippers do your thing and buy North American vehicles!
And my family vacations in Canada. So you Libbers and Dippers do your thing – vacation in Canada (March breaking is coming).
A surplus is a wonderful concept. A Liberal invention. And frequently necessary But it covers only a limited portion of the challenges we face in today’s environment. If Canada wants to be a big player, we will have to move to deficit and debt, not just traditional fiscal responsibility, as well as cutting programs and restricting free speech, and so on….
Garth:
Rumour has it PMSH made some 300 appointments, I know our governments now full of good ode neo con sheep. I suspect many were stepped up the later with a healthy pay raise. So he who speaks of the AG’s work does raise a fair point. The younger generation reads more blogs and chat with each other and can organize in heartbeat as is the case south or border for what they see as straight shooter (Obama) could this happen here? I say good! And one other point those nine (9) million are Senior Boomers, not babies any more, and dat’s a fact, and along with that comes things only tired ode bones feel, think in are in good shape, one bad fall and the pain stays. Gone are the days of jumping up for round two.
“As you may know, there are three confidence votes. The first, on a BQ amendment, is Thursday at 5:30 pm. The government will survive that. The next is the following Monday at 6:30 pm and the final vote comes the next evening at 5:30. If the government is to fall on this budget, it will be on one of those two nights.”
Do you think he’s bRuffing gLasshoppa?
The US Social Security is roughly equivalent to CPP, OAS and GIS. IF there is an EI surplus, I have no doubt that jumbo jimbo and sneaky snivellin’ stevie will find a way to move it somewhere else (to cover their butts).
By Charles Oxley on 02.24.08 9:15 pm
S’Alright, Charles, we’ve got “watchers” stationed for that. If you’re posting from a laptop, anywhere near London-Fanshawe, you’re under deep screw-tiny because according to champagne Jack, Nathan, Judy and Irene you are no longer a ‘progressive.’ For that very reason, champagne Jack et al will repeal clarity, reopen the constitution, and declare you a tribe.
Dion’s ditched ‘progressive opposition’: Layton
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080224/layton_budget_080224/20080224?hub=CTVNewsAt11
Its not that difficult to see how the LIbs must vote:
Afghanistan – yes. As you say, the Libs. and the Cons. don’t want an election over this.
Budget – see what’s in it. However, abstaintion is not an option. There may be things you like, things you dislike. You have to vote one way or another. On some bills you can abstain, this is not one of them.
And then you’re forgetting the biggest move by the bully leader of the gang which may negate all the above, what happens if the crime bills don’t pass the Senate by close of play Friday?
Tea Leaves Say….
1.Canada’s Conservatives take 12-point lead in poll AFP – 21 Feb 2008
2.Tories flirt with majority support, poll finds Globe and Mail, 21 Feb 2008
3.Waiting for Dion–St. John’s Telegram, Canada – 19 hours ago
The Globe and Mail/CTV poll found 39 per cent of respondents would vote for Harper’s Tories
4.New polls put ruling Conservatives ahead Calgary Herald, 21 Feb 2008
5.Canada’s minority Conservatives lead poll UPI – 21 Feb 2008
Tory to remain leader of Ontario PCs despite—lukewarm vote Globe & Mail 23 Feb 2008—hey, how the hell did that get in here? DUH … Yup Yup he’s a unifier if’n I ever saw one … Just like Steve!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-StwaOy-04
Within the margin of error—nineteen times out of 20
Pollster Nanos says the survey offers a fascinating glimpse into the kind of polling numbers the party strategists have probably been seeing in their studies of what drives core voters.
He also warns that the reasons someone gives for voting today could change dramatically at the end of an actual 36-day election campaign.
https://zone.artizans.com/images/previews/DEA1566.pvw.jpg
Bigcitylib has an interesting article.
Monday, February 25, 2008
Tory Turmoil In Mississauga!
http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com/2008/02/tory-turmoil-in-mississauga.html
Putting a ‘For Sale’ sign on AECL
Ottawa has been laying the groundwork for the complete or partial privatization of the marketer of Candu technology
SHAWN MCCARTHY AND KAREN HOWLETT
From Monday’s Globe and Mail
February 25, 2008 at 4:30 AM EST
The Harper government has been working for months to get Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd. in shape for a sale – possibly to foreign owners – and the recent firing of former nuclear regulator Linda Keen is viewed in the industry as a key part of that effort.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080225.wnuclear25/BNStory/National/home
One for the PMO, please forward to Harper.Steve has been diagnosed as socially aggressive.
Friends can push children to become bullies: study
The Canadian Press
MONTREAL
The influence of friends and adults can trigger even the most mild-mannered children to launch psychological blows against their peers, a new study suggests.
The study, which followed 406 pairs of seven-year-old twins from the Montreal area, highlights environmental factors as the driving force behind kids who engage in non-physical, yet emotionally damaging attacks.
“Children who hang out with socially aggressive friends seem to pick up this behaviour even when they don’t have a genetic disposition to be socially aggressive,” said the study’s lead author, Mara Brendgen.
“It’s very important, . . . especially for parents of such young children, to try to monitor their child’s friendship network.”
Brendgen defines social aggression as hurtful behaviour without physical contact, which includes teasing and more covert strategies like rumour-spreading and social exclusion.
http://news.therecord.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/313910
Garth, Are you telling us that you will vote the same way as your leader even if you do not agree with the “liberal” position? This smells a little like the way you have been describing the Conservative way of doing business in parliament!! Have a great week.
Now, how would you surmise a silly thing like that? — Garth
NANOS latest tracking shows the Conservatives and the Liberals continue to be gripped in a deadlock. Support for the NDP has dropped 5 points nationally in the past 16 days while the Conservatives are up 3 points (within the Margin of Accuracy).
In order to understand what was driving the vote every committed voter was asked why they had a particular vote preference.
Conservatives were more likely to be driven by policies and job performance, the Liberals by a belief they were the best option and party policies/platform and the NDP by policies/platform and a belief they care for the average/working person.
Support for the Bloc was based on their standing up for Quebec/French and the belief they are the best choice. Green Party support was driven by their environmental credentials and policies/platform.
Methodology
Polling between February 16th and February 20th, 2008. (Random Telephone Survey of 1,001 Canadians, 18 years of age and older). The Nanos Research Survey of 1,001 Canadians is accurate to within 3.1 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20. The subset of committed voters is accurate to within 3.3 percentage points, plus or minus, 19 times out of 20.
Question: For those parties you would consider voting for federally, could you please rank your top two current local preferences? (Committed Voters Only – First Choice)
The numbers in parenthesis denotes the change from the previous Nanos Research Survey completed on February 4th, 2008.
Canada (N=878, MoE ± 3.3%, 19 times out of 20)
Liberal Party 34% (+1)
Conservative Party 34% (+3)
NDP 14% (-5)
BQ 10% (NC)
Green Party 8% (NC)
Hey Flaherty, how about a budget that allows the other 85% of seniors to partake in income splitting
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/02/hey-flaherty-how-about-budget-that.html
Catherine….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Layton is obviously very worried about the recent declines in NDP support which is why he is attacking the Liberals pre-budget. This is a guy who is not committed to his ‘socially progressive’ principles or else he would not have brought down the Martin government and killed Kelowna and the national day care program as a result.
Hopefully NDP voters will shift to Liberals in the next election and help toss Harper out on his ear.
The last weeks have pointed to a common message – conservatives = bad. When it comes time to vote will you but your money where your mouth is? Even if you aren’t ahead in the polls? It seems politians are very good at talking the talk but only walk the walk when it’s in their best interest.
PS – How the hell can the green party be behind the NDP and BQ.. those two parties are total fruitcakes.. I’d rather vote for a trained chimp.
By DXXXX on 02.25.08 7:44 am
Good survey, but you failed to mention the issues which were put forward by the participants, in order, were;
According to the survey, the top issue for Canadians is the environment at 23 per cent, followed by health care at 20 per cent. Only 6 per cent listed the Afghan war as the most important issue today.
And, further, due to the CPC’s lack of performance on the environment file, and their persistently dismissive attitude, they’ve failed TO GET IT DONE!
Cap that off with the way they treat their own scientists, and you don’t have a winner.
Editorial—Nature
Published online 20 February 2008
Science in retreat—
Canada has been scientifically healthy.
Not so its
government.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v451/n7181/pdf/451866a.pdf
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v451/n7181/full/451866a.html
Afghanistan
DON’T BE FORGETTING OUR GOOD PEOPLE!
http://www3.thestar.com/cgi-bin/star_static.cgi?section=news&page=/Videos/xmas2007/2007_soldier_xmasgreetings.html
AND DON’T BE FORGETTING THE NAME SARKOZY OR OTHER NATO MEMBERS. IF THE REQUESTED HELP IS NOT FORTHCOMING, WE’RE OUTA THERE NEXT FEBRUARY (’09)
As for Champagne Jack and the rest of his ‘progressives,’ he would have us PULL OUT, without giving notice, leaving a sign at the gate; “Last one out, be sure to shut off the lights!”
Garth, if you are trying to gain support from mainstream Canadians, using tactics like the suggestion that PMSH and Flaherty are criminals on whom you should call the police is just a tad, as they say, “over the top.”
This is not the sort of rhetoric that will gain you support from the mainstream where you need support. You should pull your remarks immediately, just like the Liberal Party immediately pulled their “soldiers with guns in our cities” ad when they realized that this would not go over with mainstream Canadians, and would not resonate as truthful.
Remember, what goes around comes around. Let’s not debase this campaign with personal accusations of criminality without legal evidence, and stick to sweet reason and logic to make our case rather than emotional and unreasoned attacks.
Have a good week, Garth, and may you have the wisdom to know what is right after you hear Monsieur Dion’s remarks. Will you both be on the same page on the three votes coming up no matter what? Will you prop this government up one more time, or will you follow through on your rhetoric and pull the trigger?
Will the decision just be made spontaneously at the last minute, or is there not already enough evidence to pull the plug? What will it take for you to decide whether you can no longer be held back by the doves on this present government?
More comments from you? — Garth
When one remembers the unpopular history of the hated GST Tax in Canada, I never thought that I would live to see the day when Canadians would not only defend the tax, but would actually prefer to see it raised.
And contrary to what some are saying, the lowering of the GST rate was credited with contributing towards lowering the inflation rate during the month of January. Savings are being passed on to the consumers.
This is something we should be thankful for, instead of demanding that the government should raise our taxes.
At the end of the day, the Liberals arn’t going to raise the GST any more than they were willing to remove the GST tax after promising to do so during the election campaign of 1993.
For those who are making a Liberal advocacy here, all the while wishing for a return of the GST to its former level (a tax that they vitriolically vilified earlier), I say, “Dream on if you think that this is a ‘mess’ that the Liberals will clean up.”
“LPOC where hypocrisy reigns supreme.”
All right, Leasa, my darling little troll, I warned you yesterday, now I shall smite you new Conservative Party operatives.
A history lesson from David Olive, “Canadian Political Babble: a Cynic’s Dictionary of Political Jargon”, John Wiley and Sons, 1993, p. 219:
QUOTE:“[We are] erecting a new standard of morality day by day in Canada.”
Prime Minister BRIAN MULRONEY in 1985, announcing the creation of tougher conflict-of-interest guidelines for cabinet ministers after five of his ministers had been forced to step down over alleged ethics violations in the first year and a half of his Government; two more would follow them out of the door in the nine months following Mulroney’s vow to clean house. … Within a year of exploiting John Turner’s electoral weakness of having made eighteen patronage appointments on the eve of the 1984 vote (which Mulroney had labeled “vulgar … shameful, and scandalous”), Mulroney had made 1,280 such appointments, drawing heavily in his selection of worthies from the ranks of his school chums and associates in his law practice and his days in business. UNQUOTE.
By Herb on 01.21.08 9:31 am
Garth:
Rumour has it PMSH made some 300 appointments, I know our governments now full of good ode neo con sheep. I suspect many were stepped up the later with a healthy pay raise. So he who speaks of the AG’s work does raise a fair point. The younger generation reads more blogs and chat with each other and can organize in heartbeat as is the case south or border for what they see as straight shooter (Obama) could this happen here? I say good! And one other point those nine (9) million are Senior Boomers, not babies any more, and dat’s a fact, and along with that comes things only tired ode bones feel, think in are in good shape, one bad fall and the pain stays. Gone are the days of jumping up for round two.
By David Bakody on 02.25.08 6:16 am
Both posters have illustrated the weakness of people “taken in” by self-serving, SELF-RIGHTEOUS people making false promises prior to assuming office.
“More comments from you?” — Garth
Thank you for allowing Canadians to “say it,” even those who advocate moderation, compromise, and reason rather than emotional rhetoric.
Garth,
Sorry, but I have lost the message amidst all the endless campaigning. Let me know when Parliament actually DOES something for Canadians!
Budget, smudget! This is not about the friggin’ budget (which in Harper’s case is an oxymoron of vote buying BS). This is about POWER!.
I have grown so disgusted with this government and the entire HoC childishness words fail me!
As to polls…I would like to personally have the pleasure of shoving them up the arse of those who repeatedly quote them.
This is nothing more than a game. A childish, money wasting, pissant excuse for how to run this country.
I am sure Dion will have a great speech. Words, empty worthless words are all we have gotten from all of the MP’s.
I am going to go do things that make a real difference for my family and myself. When, and if the children want my vote I will be looking at their PERMANENT RECORDS! I suspect a lot of RED INK, mingled with vain attempts of coverup by BLACK MARKERS!
Tell them I said Good LUCK SCHMUCKS!
1. mainstream Canadians
2. Remember, what goes around comes around.
By Ike on 02.25.08 8:12 am
1. No doubt this comment is based upon your study of “plugged” toilets.
2. As for PMSH and Flaherty, they’re not even ‘tentatively’ mainstream!
http://www.canadiancartoonists.com/Members/Mackinnon/mackinnon6.jpg
Okay, is Catherine smoking something? She’s been duped and doesn’t even know it. Catherine, you lost a whole year of income tax breaks and Harper has now brought them to you after taking them away from you so you are no further ahead, just lost a year. By the way, kiddo, last I heard this is a free country so we don’t need instructions by you where to spend our money. Perhaps the “American” vehicles should come up with better, greener vehicles that meet consumer standards. My husband has always bought GM cars but consumer reports show consistently in the last few years that they are not up to standard – he’s planning to purchase a new vehicle in the spring – and feels he’s spent a lot of money supporting the “American” car industry and is looking for them to improve.
Harry S – you challenge Garth to vote his conscience – does the same challenge go to the CPC MP’s? If you think they can you are a fool.
IKEY–Is this how you become a ‘mainstream guy?’
Giving the boot to a briefing centre—G&M Editorials—Tues Oct 16 2007
Two weeks after Stephen Harper demonstrated just how effectively the National Press Theatre can be used to communicate with journalists and the Canadian public comes a report about a hush-hush plan by the Prime Minister’s Office to set up a $2-million government-controlled briefing centre. The new centre is described in government documents as an initiative to ”put in place robust physical and information security measures to protect the Prime Minister and cabinet.” The timing of news of the plan, a day before the Speech from the Throne and with election speculation rampant in Ottawa, appeared to cause embarrassment for the government. Little wonder. It can only serve to solidify Mr. Harper’s reputation as Canada’s micromanager-in-chief.
http://canadianobserver.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/stephen_harper_victory.jpg
Just say, “DUH Yup Yup.”
My family buys North American vehicles! So you Libbers and Dippers do your thing and buy North American vehicles!
By Catherine on 02.25.08 4:52 am
So as has been said, Flaherty/Harper’s tax cuts were good politics, but where they good policy?
Paying down the debt can be a good thing. But here’s the question, by definition a surplus is over taxation.
So should this government have given use back some of that overtaxation, either as a cheque in the mail or spending it on the environment/infrastructure, rather using all against the debt?
No debt, but poor infrastructure, continued polution/GHG’s.
Balance is what is needed, not a blinkered fixation on only paying down the debt. Paul Martin got caught with this affliction after balancing the budget, Jim Flaherty’s got it too!
As for buying North American vehicles, do you check where they were assembled, US, Mexico or Canada? (Mexico and US, does little good to Canadian auto workers.) Do you check where the parts came from? (Canadian content) Or do you stick to the big 2 and a bit, excluding foreign companies that build cars, and provide jobs, in Canada? Or are you like Buzz H. who still hasn’t figured out that protectionism isn’t an option in the global economy and that NA. auto makers have to build cars people want, with the quality people desire, for the price people will pay, with the service people expect.
I’ve had 3 NA. built vehicles from one NA. manufacturer. I won’t buy another from them. The vehicles look good, but my experience of their quality and service leaves much to be desired.
Layton baffles and mystifies
“To diehard New Democrats, Jack Layton’s ideological zigs and zags may be perfectly understandable. But he is going to have trouble explaining them to the rest of the electorate.
Under his leadership, the NDP has voted with the governing Conservatives on several key bills that run counter to its stated principles. It has treated the Green party, which shares many of its goals, with disrespect bordering on incivility. It has raised an outcry over bank-machine fees while the government proceeded to chop child care, ramp up military spending and dismantle a historic accord with Canada’s aboriginal peoples. And it has allowed its rivalry with the Liberals to skew its priorities and blunt its message.
The most recent example was last week’s vote on a Liberal motion to withdraw Canadian troops from Afghanistan by February of 2009.
The New Democrats joined the Conservatives to defeat the resolution. Layton said he wanted to end the military mission immediately, not in two years.
So rather than vote in favour of a clear deadline, he and his NDP colleagues voted in favour of an open-ended engagement.
Jack Layton—”Here’s to us … We’re toast!”
http://forums.macleans.ca/uploads/1366/1176482061.2997.upload1.jpg
“Because he paid down the national debt by more than 37 Billion, he saved Canada service (interest) payments” – Catherine
By Catherine on 02.25.08 4:52 am
You not only continue to lie with numbers… but your views concerning the economy are sadly out of touch. The Cons inherited a healthy economy that has in the past, produced healthy budgets under Liberal governmments. The Liberals have pared down federal debt from the 97-98 tax year to 05-06 tax year by 78 billion, or just under 10 billion a year on average. See for yourself.
http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Federal_Program_Spending_and_Revenues_1961-2009.pdf
In 2006, the Cons scrapped the Kelowna Accord (which all provinces had signed onto) along with other Liberal spending, while producing tax cuts, namely to the rich and a GST point with a strong commodity inherited economy to produce a 13 billion dollar surplus. Currently, they are still in a second budget of which the numbers have come in around 6.9 billion in surplus. This tally’s up at 20 billion, not the 37 billion you falsely (I believe intentionally) state.
The problem is, as we have found out with October, November numbers, that trade and the economoy has slowed. The surplus was 100 million in November and is highly likely to turn negative for the remainder of the 2007 budget. The Cons are at 20 billion in surplus over 22 months, with 3 months of numbers to come in Catherine, not 37 billion as you so falliciously state and lets not forget the economy they inherited here!
As for affordability, its true if your one of the lucky ones who bought a new car or a plasma TV. But the rest of us Joes swamped with higher costs of living haven’t seen any breaks.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/01/25/inflation.html
“Statistics Canada said gasoline prices were 14.9 per cent higher than they were a year earlier, reflecting higher oil prices. But that increase was less than it was in November. Heating oil was 27 per cent more expensive.
Mortgage interest costs also picked up steam in December, rising 7.3 per cent over the year.
On a monthly basis, consumer prices rose by just a 10th of a per cent between November and December. Higher costs for gasoline, heating oil, air travel and fresh vegetables were offset by cheaper clothing, books and video equipment, “likely the result of Christmas specials,” Statistics Canada said.
What does it all mean? It means that if you’ve got cash to spend, a higher dollar has made import luxury items cheaper. But if you don’t have lots of spare cash, affordability is shrinking due to high inflation on goods people have to buy to survive and that, dear Catherine, is one of several percursors to a recession. Disappearing jobs like the 300,000 we’ve lost in manufacturing last year, shrinking equity in real estate and higher debt load combined with reduced affordability of necessary spending leading to bankrupcies are the other major factors, all of which is has happened or is about to leading up to a recession.
There is only one unknown… and that is commodities. If commodity valuations go down, Canadians are screwed and thats why the U.S. economy is worth watching because if their recession deepens, the global economy will have lost its number one customer and commodities are highly likely to tank as a result.
Not that any of this should bother you, Catherine. You like to make things up so pretending things are better than they are should be a snap for someone such as yourself to cope as things turn negative moving forward.
I too think the Liberals should pull the plug on this government. Even if there is no “poison pill” in the budget I still think it could be taken down on the grounds that the country has lost confidence in the government. The reason being that Harper’s gang has put us in a bad situation due to their ideological (in which a lot of people get harmed) beliefs.
Excerpt from a Globe and Mail article today entitled, “Mr. Dion’s appointments” –
“Stéphane Dion has fallen in love with his power to appoint candidates. On five occasions since he became Liberal Leader, he has used it to circumvent the party’s local nomination process. He risks insulting not only the grassroots members whose voice he is taking away, but the very candidates his appointments are intended to help.”
Care to comment Garth?
I bet not.
By DXXXX on 02.25.08 7:44 am
Question: For those parties you would consider voting for federally, could you please rank your top two current local preferences? (Committed Voters Only – First Choice)
The numbers in parenthesis denotes the change from the previous Nanos Research Survey completed on February 4th, 2008.
Canada (N=878, MoE ± 3.3%, 19 times out of 20)
Liberal Party 34% (+1)
Conservative Party 34% (+3)
NDP 14% (-5)
BQ 10% (NC)
Green Party 8% (NC)
……………………………………………………
You should also include in your deliberations, the other Nanos poll, namely:
CPAC-Nanos Federal Leadership Report Card (February 2008)
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T278.pdf
Most Trustworthy Leader
Harper — 30%
Dion —–14%
Most Competent Leader
Harper — 39%
Dion —– 16%
Leader with the best vision for Canada
Harper — 32%
Dion —– 17%
Harper wins hands down by two to one over Dion ..!!!
………………….
Surely going into the next election, Harper’s popularity level and Dion’s unpopularity level must translate into votes, thusly:
Canada (N=878, MoE ± 3.3%, 19 times out of 20)
Liberal Party 34% – 3.3% = 30.7%
Conservative Party 34% + 3.3 = 37.3%
This would be a minimum impact of leadership on the general vote, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Liberal party vote dipped below the 30.7% once Canadians get a good gander at Dion. I just don’t see Dion successfully leading the Liberals during an election campaign. He’s just not prime ministerial.
Catherine,SLG is right.She can spend her money where she likes…probably at Walmart.Then as a lieberal,she wonders why all our manufacturing jobs are going to China.Her husband buys”american” cars,obviously not having a clue how many auto production plants we have in”Canada”.Thank goodness Prime Minister Harper has control of the finances.With less GST,child tax credits,and far better control of the treasury,I and most Canadians are far better off than when Uncle Jean,Mr.Dithers, and there band of thieves were stealing our money and downloading taxes onto our backs to fix their inability to bring their spending under control.
Harry S – your challenge Garth to vote his conscience – does the same challenge go to the CPC MP’s? If you think they can you are a fool.
By slg on 02.25.08 8:51 am
………………………………….
Is this your excuse that Garth should use if he votes as he is whipped by Dion? Oh how little faith you have in our MP Garth … the “lil’ red tory” under the Big Liberal Tent …!!!!
Methinks it is you who is the “fool”..!!
Surely going into the next election, Harper’s popularity level and Dion’s unpopularity level must translate into votes, thusly:
Canada (N=878, MoE ± 3.3%, 19 times out of 20)
Liberal Party 34% – 3.3% = 30.7%
Conservative Party 34% + 3.3 = 37.3%
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:30 am
Just like Flaherty, you’re pulling numbers out of the air. Surely, on what evidence do you base this?
Best thing for Mr. Dion go into an election, let people see your vision for Canada and let the people decide.
Mr. Dion can only hide for so long, that time has expired. Time for him and the Libs to take their best shot. If they win, great, if the hold the Cons to a minority O.K., if they loose, time to move on.
brain on 02.25.08 9:15 am
“There is only one unknown… and that is commodities.”
Commodities are in a very big bubble when compared to global consumer purchasing power.
“The Cons inherited a healthy economy that has in the past, produced healthy budgets under Liberal governmments.”
Did they? The Cdn economy has been shedding jobs and investors since 2002 while the surplus was nothing more than over taxation. Commodities are globally priced of which Ottawa has no control. The housing boom fueled consumer spending through cheap money with ABCP which has used worse lending practices than sub-prime. Did anyone tell Cdns how expensive this `cheap money` really is? As Garth mentioned the budget of BC has already preemptively bailed out the banks along with consumers to the tune of $2.5B which certainly is `forward looking`.
Blaming the Conservatives over a failing economy does seem so much simpler than mapping out a path to a softer landing. Pity the people counting on Ottawa to come up with a plan.
——————————
“Some damage, as they say, is irreversible.”
By brain on 02.24.08 10:46 pm
That excuse was worn out in 93 with axe the tax.
Just go with your heart, Garth. Do what you know is right rather than allow yourself to be “whipped.”
Layton continues to baffle and mystify
NDP declares victory for clean air—Layton and Cullen proud of accomplishments on C-30—Thursday, March 29, 2007
Huh? Sun Media—Greg Weston—Sunday, October 14, 2007 Clean Air Act up in smoke—Tories look for new solutions to pollution
Jack Layton—”Here’s to us … We’re toast!”
http://forums.macleans.ca/uploads/1366/1176482061.2997.upload1.jpg
Stockwell Day in the Garden of Eden—the Divine Plan—Intelligent Design
http://www.ottawasun.com/PhotoGalleries/Month/2008/01/29/Tony1.jpg
Meanwhile, his associate, Boticelli Boy, Birdy [BOO!] Baird does his level best to maintain a duality {both sides} of the issue, by discounting Day’s dismissive “Big Al (Gore) Melt” and invoking the possibility of a green-plan-recession. This from Ottawa West—NewPeon Riding—National Post informs “Canada has made great progress on the file: Alberta has a target of reducing emissions intensity 50% below 1990 levels by 2020, while acknowledging that this is unlikely to lead to absolute reductions (by 2004, intensity levels were 16% below 1990 levels but total emissions had increased 40%).”
http://corrigan.ca/april22-07.jpg
As part of Harper’s Bizarre Plan to ‘Stand Up for Canada,’ Birdy [BOO!] Baird ‘Stood Up’ the entire Canadian Youth Delegation at Bali.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2ArjWsNcg
Nathan Cullen, the NDP environment critic, brought in champagne and cake. Conservatives refused either. What was there to celebrate? Brian Jean, Conservative MP from Fort McMurray, whose prosecutor skills were used to cross-examine witnesses until they said the opposite of what they had intended, said that he didn’t drink champagne at a funeral.
”The only difference was that the NDP generally could not resist asking witnesses, including John Baird, if they did not agree that the Liberals had been really dreadful. Conservatives seemed almost embarrassed by the silliness of the question and I wondered often how Nathan Cullen could bring himself to keep asking it.”
(Compliments of the Green Party … examining the implications of Bill C-30)
By Harry S
This would be a minimum impact of leadership on the general vote,
You sure love polls Harry, but you don’t seem to mention the recently released poll (I think it was Nanos) in which the conclusion was basically that this leadership theme isn’t resonating with Canadians. The Cons seems to be trying to replay the American 2004 election and I hope it doesn’t play out like it did there. In fact, it seems to me, that a large part of the CRAP strategy is from the Republican handbook.
and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Liberal party vote dipped below the 30.7% once Canadians get a good gander at Dion.
Hmmmm, I see the opposite happening. I think once Canadians begin to contrast Dion to Harper they will see an intelligent, compassionate, and principled man compared to … ummm a thug whose “strategic brilliance” is, imo, very overrated.
I just don’t see Dion successfully leading the Liberals during an election campaign. He’s just not prime ministerial.
Have you seen Harper in a cowboy outfit? But seriously, I don’t know what you mean by “prime ministerial”? Would you have been one of those to endorse Kim Cambell’s “do you want a PM who looks like this” advertisment?
Oh well, just another day in which Harry S. professes his dislike of Dion (and cherry picks polls) … I wonder if the sun will set tonight?
I do hope that MPs remember that their purpose is to promote the national interest of Canada, not the power of a party or a leader. Wish I were preaching to the converted.
And those enthralled with Harper’s support of the troops, even while he was in opposition, might remember that he would have supported them right into Iraq, and we know now how great that would have been.
By Charles Oxley on 02.24.08 9:15 pm
The U.S. Social Security has been tapped out by the Congress for decades. They will never be able to pay out what they OWE to Americans who were FORCED to pay into a system that was mandated to be untouchable. The Congress took the money to finance their damn wars.
I, personally, do not expect to get Jack Squat back for the $Tens of thousands I paid into it over a lifetime.
Hopefully, my CPP and OAP will have some value.
It is never a good idea to allow greedy paws into the money vaults.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 8:37 am
I’d love to put Harper and his entire CPC in the ‘Main Stream’ as a raging river, such as the Niagra, right above the FALLS!
If only they could get sucked into the Hydro sluices and then they would finally have done something Green for Canada!.
Layton, since taking over the NDP, has had a clear agenda: destroy the Liberals. Layton is a student of Ernest Manning who advocated a polarized electorate with only a left and right wing party. Layton believes the NDP can be that second party and his strategy since taking office is to align the party with the Conservative against the Liberals.
Although his strategy has been to claim that the NDP is the only opposition to the Conservatives that is not the way he has been behaving. In fact, some of his paid strategists and MPs are so radical in attacking the Liberals that anyone who is not a political “junkie” would not recognize them as NDP professionals.
Even core NDP members are questioning Layton’s agenda. A mutual acquaintance of Layton’s and mine, whose judgment I trust, has suggested to me that Layton does not have a good grasp of reality.
Under Layton the NDP has destroyed its ability to speak for those that the establishment parties do not. The establishment parties believe in the entitlement of the neo-capitalist (defined today that those who control capital) as the primary and often the sole influence on government.
The result is that the establishment parties spend all their trying to keep the capitalist on side while manipulating voters in accepting agendas that are not in their interests but are in the interests of the capitalist (e.g. the promotion of globalism, the Afghan War, etc.)
We need a federal party to provide a balance but the NDP is too focused on power today than serving its traditional role. They have lost direction as a defender of those outside the sphere of influence around the establishment parties.
IF there is an EI surplus, I have no doubt that jumbo jimbo and sneaky snivellin’ stevie will find a way to move it somewhere else (to cover their butts). ~ Charles.
I have to wonder sometimes Charles, with all due respect, do you just post or do you scan or read other’s posts?
I have posted here a few times I believe on the E.I. surplus. How do you think Paul Martin took us from deficit to surplus? He on becoming Fin. Min. immediately dissolved the E.I. account and moved the $45 billion per year into the GENERAL COFFERS just like any other ‘tax’. He then took the steps to ADD GST to children’s clothing, shoes and essentials. He then gutted health care transfers and all social transfers to the provinces. He then created new taxes. This, is the Liberal way. Campaign on one thing, do the opposite, I wonder when Dion will launch THE NEW AND IMPROVED RED BOOK? You know, the one where instead of saying ‘we will scrap the GST’, it will say ‘we will not raise the GST’?
That should get your week off with a good laugh. Leasa
BTW, that’s the Honourable Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty and the Honourable Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper.
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 9:47 am
……………
Surely going into the next election, Harper’s popularity level and Dion’s unpopularity level must translate into votes, thusly:
Canada (N=878, MoE ± 3.3%, 19 times out of 20)
Liberal Party 34% – 3.3% = 30.7%
Conservative Party 34% + 3.3 = 37.3%
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:30 am
Just like Flaherty, you’re pulling numbers out of the air. Surely, on what evidence do you base this?
……………………………………………….
These number projections are based on applying the Nanos poll MoE ± 3.3% to each of the Nanos party poll numbers of 34% .. so I am not pulling “numbers out of the air”..!!
I base this projection on the fact that Harper is considered to be twice as popular as Dion on the leadership factors of trustworthiness, competence and best vision for Canada according to the other Nanos poll. Surely you must give some credence and value to perception of leadership when Canadians make their voting decision ..!!!
The government is lying to Canadian people.
http://www.liberal.ca/players/player_e.aspx?id=408
By keith phibbs on 02.25.08 7:47 am
bump
If only they could get sucked into the Hydro sluices and then they would finally have done something Green for Canada!.
By Bill-Muskoka on 02.25.08 10:09 am
Beck II project is currently underway. I don’t know whether they’re willing to take on any more SLUDGE.
Liberal Party 34% – 3.3% = 30.7%
Conservative Party 34% + 3.3 = 37.3%
I base this projection on the fact that Harper is considered to be twice as popular as Dion on the leadership factors of trustworthiness, competence and best vision for Canada according to the other Nanos poll. Surely you must give some credence and value to perception of leadership when Canadians make their voting decision ..!!!
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am
Yep, pulling numbers out of the air, or at least spinning them. Mr. Harper vs. Mr. Dion’s ratings have no bearing whatsoever on the +- on stats. Thats all based on the size of the sample vs. the size of the population and the 19 times out of 20.
Therefore:
Liberal Party 34% – 3.3% = 30.7%
34% + 3.3% = 37.3%
Conservative Party 34% + 3.3 = 37.3%
34% – 3.3 = 30.7%
Anyway you look at it, they’re tied.
But you also have to remember, the CPC vision is Harper’s vision. If a CPC MP doesn’t like it, well they will no longer be a CPC MP, so who knows what they believe!. The Liberals’s vision is not just Mr. Dion’s but the whole of the party’s.
So are we voting for one man’s vision or a vision developed by many. I’ll pick the latter.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am,
That is a flawed assumption based on your belief in the cult of leadership. The opposite could just as well be true because of the positives associated with the Liberal Party. Your “faith” in the cult of leadership may be misplaced.
While more people may see Harper has a stronger leader than Dion it may not be the major factor in voting behaviour. It may be that their is only a marginal difference in the actual “value” they attribute to the difference to make it irrelevant.
Another possibility is that those who see Harper as a stronger leader may not agree with the direction his leadership is taking the country.
It is unfortunate that the pollsters refuse to provide the other facts with regard to their polling such as the numbers who refuse to participate in the poll at all, the numbers who refuse to answer a specific question or indicate none of the above, and the number of sample members they failed to contact or the method they select their sample.
Those that have provided that information for evaluation has shown that polling may be designed more to achieve a “push” effect to please those who are paying for the poll.
Why does our government (and hence, we the people pay to fund it) OWN this Crown Corporation?
Putting a ‘For Sale’ sign on AECL
Just curious that after 60 years we are still feeding this? Can’t we come up with a better solution?
As to the CNSC, they MUST be given final authority (which they legally have, but Harper can’t grasp the meaning of ‘legal’ apparently) regarding nuclear safety.
We need to either nationalize firmly such ventures or not! Government has a definite seat at the table of the Common Good, and should be making this a profitable venture that generates revenue for our country.
The ‘new canadian government’ label should be changed to ‘the Humpty Dumpty govenmnt’.
Humpty Dumpty is doomed to fall & all King Harper’s men & all King Harper’s horses will not be able to put it back
together again.
Let’s not forget that King Harper has promised all his men & his horses that he will never settle for a minority government again.
If you had a Humpty Dumpty government & everybody in it knew it, wouldn’t you want to manipulate the opposition to ‘go to the polls’ on your schedule, to cover the odds against your predictable, probable, ‘great fall’?
Don’t rush to the wall, let King Harper’s balance of his Humpty Dumpty government become shakier & shakier so that when it falls, he’ll have ‘scrambled egg all over his face’.
“NDP is too focused on power today than serving its traditional role”
“manipulating voters in accepting agendas that are not in their interests but are in the interests of the capitalist ”
C. B. on 02.25.08 10:10 am
lol CB, it`s not that I don`t enjoy a lesson in your version of political sciences 101 but where do you get this stuff from? The NDP have traditionally been the representatives of labour. Not the working person but unionized labour. The NDP agenda is to create such a protected one sided trade environment where unions can demand as much as the market will bare. lol, that`s capitalism to the extreme, often called monopolizing which is some places is illegal.
Ending with the beginning.
“a polarized electorate with only a left and right wing party”
I agree the intent is to polarize the electorate but in reality, based on performance, there are no Cdn left and right wing party, they will cross dress at the hint of picking up a few votes.
I would think this question might be a little more relevant to the voter than who is dressing left this week and who is dressing right.
What does the professor say about the never ending stream of countless election bringing more and more problems with one do nothing government after the other?
Economic conditions will bring the change required and that`s not under governance in PS 101
By Markus D. on 02.25.08 9:52 am
By Harry S – This would be a minimum impact of leadership on the general vote,
By Markus D. – You sure love polls Harry, but you don’t seem to mention the recently released poll (I think it was Nanos) in which the conclusion was basically that this leadership theme isn’t resonating with Canadians.
Quite right Markus D. and in that Nanos poll they provide the following information:
Question: Why is ______ your first choice? (First ranked vote preference only) (Note: Does not include undecided/leaning voters)
The best leader/leadership — Liberal 14 .. Conservative 15 (vote count)
Tradition/always voted for them — Liberal 54 .. Conservative 17 (vote count)
Good Good policies/platform — Liberal 55 .. Conservative 76 (vote count)
So what you are referring to is a question that uses the party name only, and not the names of the leaders as done in the Nanos leadership report card poll where party leaders were specifically named. Also the vote count (14+15=29 first ranked votes) for best leader/leadership is very low from the 1001 people polled, so that the Margin of Error will be rather large. It would be interesting to know the second ranked vote preference for this category.
However when you look at two other polled categories we get a larger sample and to our surprise we find that most people polled were past Liberal voters … and even more surprising is their approval of Conservative policies/platform..!! What would you conclude about this startling result ..??!!
You can view the entire Nanos poll at:
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T283.pdf
………………
By Harry S – …and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Liberal party vote dipped below the 30.7% once Canadians get a good gander at Dion.
By Markus D. – Hmmmm, I see the opposite happening. I think once Canadians begin to contrast Dion to Harper they will see an intelligent, compassionate, and principled man compared to … ummm a thug whose “strategic brilliance” is, imo, very overrated.
Markus D. .. that is just your hopeful thinking, when you should be looking at the numbers for reality.
……………..
By Harry S – I just don’t see Dion successfully leading the Liberals during an election campaign. He’s just not prime ministerial.
By Markus D. – Have you seen Harper in a cowboy outfit? But seriously, I don’t know what you mean by “prime ministerial”? Would you have been one of those to endorse Kim Cambell’s “do you want a PM who looks like this” advertisment?
It’s obvious you prefer not to broach the Nanos poll on leadership perception that directly impacts on the perception of ‘prime ministerial’ .. but don’t let me shake you out of your delusions about newly-bespectacled Dion.
…………….
By Markus D. – Oh well, just another day in which Harry S. professes his dislike of Dion (and cherry picks polls) … I wonder if the sun will set tonight?
As you can see, I have not “cherry picked polls”, but have compared two Nanos polls and presented my conclusions to the forum. I suggest you do the same.
Btw .. thanks for your comments ….
Economy slowing, IMF says
U.S. slump, high dollar to hurt Canadian growth in 2008
Feb 25, 2008 10:55 AM
THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA – The International Monetary Fund says Canada’s economic growth will slip to 1.8 per cent this year in the face of a slump in the United States, the high loonie and more moderate domestic demand.
The Washington-based agency had projected 2008 growth of 2.3 per cent in its forecast last fall, but conditions have deteriorated since then, particularly in the U.S., Canada’s largest trading partner.
The IMF report said it is unlikely the Canadian economy can decouple from the U.S. because trade and financial linkages are among the strongest in the industrial world, with the U.S. receiving 75 per cent of Canada’s exports.
Still, the agency predicts Canada’s economy will weather the storm better than most.
But the IMF warns that the downside risks are strong and Canada could fall into a deep recession if the American economy contracts, the U.S. dollar plummets and commodity prices fall.
In that scenario, Canada’s economy could shrink by 3.3 per cent this year and 3.8 per cent in 2009 before recovering to barely above zero in 2010, the IMF says.
By Bill-Muskoka on 02.25.08 10:09 am
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 8:37 am
I’d love to put Harper and his entire CPC in the ‘Main Stream’ as a raging river, such as the Niagra, right above the FALLS!
If only they could get sucked into the Hydro sluices and then they would finally have done something Green for Canada!.
………………….
I wish you American-Russian azzholes would get off this CANADIAN forum …!!!
Harry S…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
And the Nanos poll also indicates that ‘leadership’ as an issue hardly even registers as a reason why voters pick a particular political party.
People planning to vote Conservative would do so pick ‘leadership’ as the reason 5.3%. People planning to vote Liberal choose ‘leadership’ as the reason 4.9%. So…leadership is not a big issue.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am
…a cross your fingers kind of analysis, I’d say. Wishful thinking and dreams, as it were. In spite of the statistical margin of error, Nanos has a reputation for being pretty accurate, doesn’t he?
I highly doubt that Nanos would agree that your outcome is likely.
Harry, if what you are ‘selling’ with your posts is in fact the Conservative strategy in the next election, you are putting all your eggs in one basket, as the saying goes.
It certainly appears that everything hinges on Harper, and the rest of the party will either succeed or fail on his coattails.
So far, it hasn’t worked.
Another Nanos poll indicates a higher comfort level with either a Harper majority or minority compared to a Dion majority or minority. Obviously the Liberals will have to sell their platform very well to win the next election.
So what will Flaherty do if the economy tanks and we go into recession? Harper has promised no deficits. He has left no wiggle room with his spending sprees the last 2 years, including the gst cut.
I guess it means cutting programmes–but which ones? Will they scrap the handouts to record profit taking corporations? Or will it be the funding for the disadvantaged—knowing the Cons it will be the poor who get screwed by cuts, not the wealthy.
Just hope someone asks this question during debate–
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:06 am
Again, two years of the magnificent leadership skills from Mr. Harper (from your point of view) has led to exactly what?
A statisical tie with the Liberal party racked with financial problems, leadership issues, and corruption issues.
If Mr. Harper is such a good leader, why aren’t the Conservatives way ahead in those lovely polls you like to quote?
If you don’t bring Harper down on the budget, how is anyone suppossed to take the Liberals seriously ? Abstaining is saying you support the conservatives….you might as well endorse Harper during the election in that case to. BRING THEM DOWN !
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 10:40 am
So are we voting for one man’s vision or a vision developed by many. I’ll pick the latter.
………………………………………………..
I respect your deep anecdotal feelings about Dion and the Liberals, but I don’t think a majority of Canadians will agree with your opinion based on this Nanos poll result:
CPAC-Nanos Federal Leadership Report Card (February 2008)
Most Trustworthy Leader
Harper — 30%
Dion —–14%
Most Competent Leader
Harper — 39%
Dion —– 16%
Leader with the best vision for Canada
Harper — 32%
Dion —– 17%
………..
I give more weight to the opinions of Canadians rather than the ideological opinions of Liberal party MPs who are desperately trying to shore up Dion’s failed leadership as determined by the highly reputable Nanos polling … where Harper is shown to be twice as popular than poor Dion (who even ranks lower than Layton on that poll) ..!!!
Obviously you and other Lib lovers on this fine forum cannot face the superior leadership of Harper, and you are downright niggardly in giving Harper no credit for his proven leadership amongst Canadian voters … but don’t let me shatter your delusions with cold, hard, Nano polling results.
Don’t you get tired of being so tedious? — Garth
By TS on 02.25.08 11:11 am
Harry
And the Nanos poll also indicates that ‘leadership’ as an issue hardly even registers as a reason why voters pick a particular political party.
People planning to vote Conservative would do so pick ‘leadership’ as the reason 5.3%. People planning to vote Liberal choose ‘leadership’ as the reason 4.9%. So…leadership is not a big issue.
……………………………….
Sorry TS … you are now cherry-picking polls, because that poll asks the question about “party” preference and it is a very very small response … whereas the leadership-specific Nanos poll concentrates on leadership only, and the results are:
CPAC-Nanos Federal Leadership Report Card (February 2008)
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T278.pdf
Most Trustworthy Leader
Harper — 30%
Dion —–14%
Most Competent Leader
Harper — 39%
Dion —– 16%
Leader with the best vision for Canada
Harper — 32%
Dion —– 17%
Leadership is always a big issue during an election campaign, because it is then when Canadians can size up each of the leaders, particularly in televised leadership debates.
You should broach these leadership polling numbers as the more specific and realistic on how Canadians perceive Harper and Dion. Harper wins hands down by 2 to 1 .. so live with it …!!!
This is the last time you will use my real estate to repeat the same message. Move on. — Garth
Don’t you get tired of being so tedious? — Garth
Yes … but that’s what happens when one attempts to communicate with monkey-brained people … they just can’t seem to reconcile their feeeeelings with faaaacts … but I shall try to cease and desist, particularly when Da Big Man speaks ..!!!
BTW … what’s happening in the Schreiber-Mulroney hearing today … do you approve/disapprove or it’s just plain ‘tedious’ ..??!!!
Garth,
Thnaks for giving HS a forum for his hate and idiocy. His comments should be framed and enshrined as the Purest Example of Harper’s Mind Set!
They could be put in the National Art Gallery with the ‘Hawser on the Floor’ and the ‘Pile of Carpet Scraps’ as a permanent reminder of what Steven Harper and his followers represented while they were a MINORITY Goobernment! We should NEVER FORGET how Canada came so close to a Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich!
Never ban him Garth, he is the spokeperson for the entire CRAP mindless mindset!
Beck II project is currently underway. I don’t know whether they’re willing to take on any more SLUDGE.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 10:30 am
You are correct, and besides Harper’s, Van Loan’s, and Baird’s, not to mention Thompson (Myron) big fat asses would probably clog things up. Hell, they could build a dam with that group.
Add HS’s and you have the perfect Butt Plug! Besides, it is designed for water, not sewage.
By Ed Brooks on 02.25.08 11:21 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:06 am
Again, two years of the magnificent leadership skills from Mr. Harper (from your point of view) has led to exactly what?
A statisical tie with the Liberal party racked with financial problems, leadership issues, and corruption issues.
If Mr. Harper is such a good leader, why aren’t the Conservatives way ahead in those lovely polls you like to quote?
………………………………
Yes it’s quite puzzling, and the only thing I can think of is that Canadians are still besotted with their beloved Liberal brand .. after all they did elect and re-elect 4 Liberal governments over 13 years … and all the while they were scammed with broken promises and corruption.
The only explanation is that many gullible Canadians are still in love with the Liberal brand, and a long and painful withdrawal is necessary before they come to their senses.
Fellow Posters:
Garth has listed time and again all the failings of PMSH & Co. In all fairness I would like to see those who believe in PMSH please list his accomplishments over the past 25 months with support data of positive enhancement to Canadians. Call it our little ode bloggy town hall. Please try to write in a professional manner.
Why do we not focus on the 25 things that Canada needs to be a better country? — Garth
By Harry S
Well, I suppose I should thank you for a reasoned response for a change. Oh yeah, and thanks for the link I hadn’t had a chance to read it. That said I am leery of debating about polls because they (past polls) often don’t mean a lot once the writ is dropped – mostly because elections take on a life of their own.
Having read this one however I do not think it is as good for the Conservatives as you would have us believe. Using the three categories you’ve isolated:
The best leader/leadership — Liberal 14 .. Conservative 15 (vote count)
Tradition/always voted for them — Liberal 54 .. Conservative 17 (vote count)
Good Good policies/platform — Liberal 55 .. Conservative 76
I would conclude that given the fact that the Liberals haven’t unveiled their platform yet there is a lot of room for them to grow on the policy/platform issue.
The traditional vote (while I think this is a bad reason) doesn’t bode well for the Conservatives either – it would seem that Liberal values are closer to Canadian values than Conservative ones (hence the Flanagan strategy).
Finally, with regard to the leadership question, don’t you think with all the resources and energy the Conservatives have put into this issue they would have cashed in a bit better on the poll?
In sum, I guess my opinion on this poll is that it isn’t that good for Conservatives, and shows upshot for the Liberals.
Also, about:
that is just your hopeful thinking, when you should be looking at the numbers for reality.
Granted I may be a hopeful thinker, but I still think that given Dion’s characteristics and accomplishments, in an election, he could outshine Harper. Also, I find it a bit funny that you think we should look at the numbers for reality when Harper just the other day, in a “crime and punishment” speech said to disregard the stats and go with your feeling. Oh yeah, and how about the scientific journal Nature lambasting the Harper government for its disregard for scientific inquiry (Stockwell Day believes the world is 6000 years old for crying out loud). If anything I would think the Conservative should be looking to the numbers (read: science) to guide their reality.
It’s obvious you prefer not to broach the Nanos poll on leadership perception that directly impacts on the perception of ‘prime ministerial’ .. but don’t let me shake you out of your delusions about newly-bespectacled Dion.
I think you are right about Harper’s strength being largely based on perception. Dion is a smart man and good at making arguments. I think he has already begun undermining perceptions about Harper and, if it works, when Harper falls he will fall hard. Notice in that Nanos poll that the Conservatives got zero for “best candidates”.
Obviously we are reading the poll differently but I still don’t see how after two years in office being unable to raise their numbers much higher than election day you can consider the Conservative numbers strongly in their favor. Finally, what does Dion’s new glasses have to do with anything? That sounds to me like nothing more than a petty insult.
As you can see, I have not “cherry picked polls”, but have compared two Nanos polls and presented my conclusions to the forum. I suggest you do the same.
Fair enough, in one sense, you did provide reasons for your opinion. What I guess I am getting at when I say you cherry pick polls is that first, you only ever seem to pick the ones that serve your purposes (Conservative spin). Second, I think you may place too much value on their worth. Granted they are useful for providing snapshots of the electorate but they are hard to rely on for much more than that.
Harry I wish you could provide reasons (that don’t include polls) for your support of Harper’s vision. His agenda is clear, and not so secret, but why can’t he be honest about where he would take us if he had a majority?
Garth, you’ve cited all of the reasons why the Harper gov. should face the electorate on their record – it’s nothing to be proud of.
The decision whether or not to bring down the gov. should not be based solely on polls, especially since the most respected pollster (Nanos) has the Libs and ‘Tories’ tied. It should be based on making an attempt to stop the erosion of our fine Canadian heritage by this gov.
I have never understood the fairly consistent polling result that approximately two-thirds of Canadians say they do not want an election. Why wouldn’t they want one? Harper’s supporters want a majority. Liberal supporters want a change in goverment.
We can’t always be certain of the outcome of our choices. Sometimes you have to choose to do the right thing only because it’s the right thing to do. As Canadians we have the opportunity to make choices that folks in other countries do not have – Cuba currently comes to mind, one name on the ballot is hardly a choice for Cuban voters.
Harper has told Canadians that they won’t recognize this country when he’s finished – I don’t want to wait till then. I say it’s time to let Canadians make the decision that we’ll all have to live with because it’s not about the comfort level of politicians, it’s about the comfort level of all Canadians.
By got rope? on 02.25.08 10:59 am,
I agree with on the “cross-dressing” but I believe it is necessary to try to separate what is political strategy from ideology. The “cross-dressing” is political strategy intented to win power in order to achieve the real agenda. For example, the Liberals generally talk “to the left” but once in power govern to the right. This is why under the Liberals inequality can increase as fast as it does under the right wing Conservatives. In a capitalist society the establishment always caters to the wants of the capitalist.
Certainly the NDP agenda is dominated by their union component which makes it one of the less “democratic” parties. That link also drives them to the right as they become the handmaiden of unionized corporations. This creates one of the major contradictions within the NDP: criticizing what they call “corporate welfare” except when it protects unionized jobs.
The NDP was a merger of the CCF and Labour parties. At that point it still had a strong social progressive base. That base tended to be a core element of the party even when its labour base eroded to the establishment parties.
The problem today for the NDP is that the social progressive base is eroding as it adopts right wing policies by supporting a far right Conservative Party (e.g. by refusing to put a time limit on the Afghan mission or placing high levels of control over election financing in the hands of financial institutions).
It is not clear where the progressive wing of the party is going but it could be moving to the Greens or the Liberals under Dion (who is perceived by the establishment as too left for them) or, as with many progressive conservatives, ending up in the undecided column.
The Professor
I don’t believe anyone can predict the outcome of an election if one is called under the current climate. An election is only a snapshot in time and some unknown circumstance can change the outcome within the twinkling of an eye .
. . . He then gutted health care transfers and all social transfers to the provinces. He then created new taxes. This, is the Liberal way. Campaign on one thing, do the opposite, . . .
BTW, that’s the Honourable Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty and the Honourable Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper.
By Leasa on 02.25.08 10:16 am
Hi Leasa. I agree — Martin did gut those things, increase taxes and more; someone had to pay off some of the debt which lyin’ Brian had incurred, and then left Kim Campbell to clean up the mess.
Typical man — doesn’t take responsibility for his own actions. Still, the less said about Brian Baloney, the better; he was the only reason Chretien got in three times.
As for making a promise publicly, and then doing the opposite — didn’t something happen with IT’s?
Oh yeah, I forgot — harpo and jimbo screwed thousands of retirees and then expect to be re-elected. Well, pigs fly, Leasa. Those two are dishonourable dipshits, no more.
They should have raised the GST to 10% (consumption tax), and lowered income tax rates (more disposable income, so more to spend). conCRAPneandertrolls haven’t finished Math 101 yet, and probably never will.
Enjoy your day.
——————————————————————————–
It is never a good idea to allow greedy paws into the money vaults.
By Bill-Muskoka on 02.25.08 10:04 am
Morning, Bill. Right on the money. The less big, bad gov’t. knows about me, the happier I am.
About time CRAPpists all over were tossed into the landfill and forgotten about, ‘coz they will continue to systematically destroy what’s left of our country.
https://zone.artizans.com/images/previews/DEA1566.pvw.jpg
Nanos Research / Feb. 24, 2008
Conservative 34%
Liberal 34%
NDP 14%
Bloc 10%
Green 8%
Angus Reid / Feb. 22, 2008
Conservative 34%
Liberal 31%
NDP 17%
Bloc 9%
Green 8%
The Strategic Counsel / Feb. 21, 2008
Conservative 39%
Liberal 27%
NDP 12%
Green 12%
Bloc 10%
Harris-Decima / Feb. 20, 2008
Conservative 35%
Liberal 33%
NDP 13%
Green 9%
Ipsos-Reid / Feb. 16, 2008
Conservative 36%
Liberal 29%
NDP 13%
Green 10%
Bloc 9%
The graphic is intended to illustrate ‘it won’t be the first time,’ polls have been WRONG!
By Bill-Muskoka on 02.25.08 11:48 am
Garth,
Thnaks for giving HS a forum for his hate and idiocy.
They could be put in the National Art Gallery with the ‘Hawser on the Floor’ and the ‘Pile of Carpet Scraps’ as a permanent reminder of what Steven Harper and his followers represented while they were a MINORITY Goobernment! We should NEVER FORGET how Canada came so close to a Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich!
Never ban him Garth, he is the spokeperson for the entire CRAP mindless mindset!
………………………………………………………………
Uh oh, Garth … is that a kosher comment for your fine forum ??!!
I hope not, because Billy-M is the only forum participant who inserts his despicable references trying to link Harper and Conservatives to his “Nazi-baiting” mindset …. Yes Garth, he is the only one who consistently pushes the envelope and descends into the cesspool. Please clarify forum netiquette on this issue again .. thanks.
Maybe I missed the story but this one kind of came out of nowhere for me this morning. I’m not sure what my opinion on it is yet, but am surprised I hadn’t heard of it sooner.
Canada-U.S. pact allows cross-border military activity
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=ba99826e-f9b7-42a4-9b0a-f82134b92e7e
Why do we not focus on the 25 things that Canada needs to be a better country? — Garth
By David Bakody on 02.25.08 12:00 pm
I will try to do that, without examining ‘personalities’ like Harry A$$, [sweetlips] a tight-ass moonwalking goof, who has read ONLY ONE poll in his life, showing Harper, (at the time), was popular … and Leasa who really needs exercise in a very bad way because she NEVER, EVER, supports her statements with the relevant source documents … and last of all the Tsarina, Catherine, who really MUST HAVE BEEN RELATED to the Romanoffs, because that’s what she does … goes roamin’ off. I think she’ll be alright once she gets her mind-meld at Penetanguishene.
Beyond that, I’ll start working on the assignment.
Meantime, you can contemplate the economic forecast which has been again adjusted DOWNWARD.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2008/cr0870.pdf
As Mr. McKay finishes his speech, I have the following comments:
1. Leadership. Yes Canada is showing leadership in Afghanistan,but leadership doesn’t mean we have to do it all. Leadership means having others follow you. In Afghanistan that means getting all NATO countries to contribute.
2. Mr. McKay lists Vimmy Ridge and Korea as defining Canadian miltary history. Note to Mr. McKay, Canada did not single handedly fight WWI, WWII or Korea.
3. In light of #2, as Mr.McKay stated, “this is not a Liberal Mission, or a Conservative Mission.” But I disagree with him, it is NOT a Canadian mission either. It is a NATO mission sanctioned by the UN.
3. Reputation with our allies. To those that are engaged in Afghanistan, the British and US., there may be a loss of face. To the others, either those with no troops or caveats, that back kettle is name calling again.
4. Mr. McKay states both Libs and Cons agree the mission should end in 2011, yet Mr.McKay states we need to stay until the job is finished. The latter may not be in our control. So in 2011 if the job isn’t finished, then what?
The motion must be passed but there are still a lot of loose ends which must not be allowed to be swept under the carpet until Dec 2010 otherwise we will be having the same discussion about extending the mission at that time.
Hi Leasa. I agree — Martin did gut those things, increase taxes and more; someone had to pay off some of the debt which lyin’ Brian had incurred, and then left Kim Campbell to clean up the mess… he was the only reason Chretien got in three times.
~ Charles
Hi Charles, The reason Chretien got in three times was because the right was split. The total votes for the right, out numbered Chretien’s numbers.
During Mr. Mulroney’s time, we were under a global recession. If Mr. Mulroney was so bad that we needed the Liberals to bail us out, why is it that when the Liberals took power, they did not change one single thing that Mr. Mulroney had put in place? Not one! Except to enhance them like putting GST on essentials and children’s clothing and digging us even deeper with Free Trade (which they promised on the campaign trail to abolish).
Ask Garth. It was Mr. Mulroney’s fiscal plan that dug us out of the recession. Ask him. If Garth says I’m wrong, that Mr. Martin was the actual hero, I’ll eat my shirt.
Got to run…hope you are feeling well these days! Leasa
“We should NEVER FORGET how Canada came so close to a Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich!
“Never ban him Garth, he is the spokeperson for the entire CRAP mindless mindset!” –By Bill-Muskoka on 02.25.08 11:48 am
Bill, I may not always agree with Harry S, but this is just plain “over the top” if you hope to maintain any credibility at all with the mainstream Canadian voter where the real world is.
You accuse the CONS of being close to creating a Dictatorship and the Fourth Reich! That is “over the top,” and yet you refer to the CON government as being too pro-Jewish, and pro Israeli?
They are both pro-Nazi and pro-Jewish? Bill, how ridiculous can you get?
Of course, the real problem is with our “Fourth Reich” here in Canada who are too one-sided in supporting Israel and in fighting the Taliban, the true “fascists” of our day.
James- Chatham on 02.25.08 12:42 pm
And before the Trolls start….
I know I can’t count, but on the issue of Afghanistan, who cares!
This is the last time you will use my real estate to repeat the same message. Move on. — Garth
By Harry S infinitum….
This caricature gives a new meaning to wasted space.
Really Airry, why don’t you go back to Wizards and Warcraft and leave the grown ups to talk.
BTW, that’s the Honourable Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty and the Honourable Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper.
By Leasa on 02.25.08 10:16 am
THere is not a lot of “honor” there with all the accord denials and tax (IT) flip flops
Leasa, Please supply pictures of you eating your shirt.
As a young Canadian, contributing in every way to the Canadian Economy and Society, I find it absolutely abhorrent that we’re still assisting in the occupation of the middle east.
Get us the hell out of there. We have much bigger fish to fry here at home.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:55 am
If the ONLY thing you can think of are the shortcomings of the Liberals, then your focus is far too narrow. Your prejudice is showing.
The other option is that in spite of two years of ‘wonderful’ leadership from Mr. Harper, Canadians are not yet prepared to trust the Conservatives with a majority.
That’s really got to hurt doesn’t it? If the Liberals are as bad as you, I, and others say, and Mr. Harper still can’t get Canadians to buy what you are selling, how good a leader does that make him?
Apparently, according to your post, it is because Canadians are too stupid to understand. Another good sales technique, insult the people that you want to sell your product to…
Why do we not focus on the 25 things that Canada needs to be a better country? — Garth
1: Abolish Senate
2: Abolish HoC
3: Reinstate rule of law
4: Remove SCoC power over democracy
5:Remove sole custody from Divorce Act
6: Remove Divorce Act from justice industry
7: Base import export tax on carbon footprint
8: Replace all taxes and fees with flat tax
9: Jail anyone using the root cause of crime for profit
10: End ethanol production from food stock
11: Lawyers to do 1hr community work for every 2 paid,,, just because
Is that a good start?
By Markus D. on 02.25.08 12:07 pm
By Harry S
Well, I suppose I should thank you for a reasoned response for a change. Oh yeah, and thanks for the link I hadn’t had a chance to read it. That said I am leery of debating about polls because they (past polls) often don’t mean a lot once the writ is dropped – mostly because elections take on a life of their own.
+ + + + + + + +
Harry I wish you could provide reasons (that don’t include polls) for your support of Harper’s vision. His agenda is clear, and not so secret, but why can’t he be honest about where he would take us if he had a majority?
……………………………………………………………………..
Well I guess we will never agree on the interpretation of all the polls, and it is amusing to see how forum Lib-lovers are trying to twist the poll results to explain away Dion’s unpopularity, and Dion’s inability to boost Liberal popularity above that of the Conservatives.
And yes … a Harper majority government will most certainly change Canada for the better, particularly after the last 13 years of disasterous Liberal governments that nearly lost Quebec to the separatists and then the sordid underbelly of Liberal corruption and criminality was exposed.
The Ottawa government bureaucracy will be reduced because unnecessary social engineering and nutbar advocacy groups will be eliminated, and Canadians will have a lean and efficient federal government providing value for tax money paid. The Liberal-fattened federal government will be brought back to normal, and hard working and productive Canadians will realized even more tax savings. A Conservative enema must be applied to the constipated federal bureaucracy and flush out all the Liberal-appointed detritus so that we can again have a clean federal government.
Provincial governments will then determine if they want to fund all the socialistic bells and whistles to their province, and the people of their province will be taxed accordingly. For example, BC is implementing a ‘carbon tax’, while Ontario has no such plans. The federal government is considering a national ‘carbon tax’, but that will most likely be an election issue so that all Canadians can decide.
I have faith that a majority Conservative government will get the job done to make the federal government more economical for the needs of Canadians. A Liberal government will be more ‘tax and spend’ and sending Billion$$$ to their friends in China for useless hot air Kyoto Carbon Credits to help finance Chinese high sulphur coal-fired power plant construction. Dion has confirmed that his government would purchase international carbon credits and that means China and friends.
The remnants of Liberal corruption is still embedded in the party, and only a true ‘renewal’ leader, like Ignatieff, will clean out the corrupt old guard that flocked to Dion in the leadership contest. Thank goodness that Canadians recognize Dion is NOT the leader that Canada needs, and that PM Harper is the man to lead us into the future..!!
By Ike on 02.25.08 12:43 pm
Congrats. You just erased what respect I had left for you. Shouldn’t you and Airry be over at Blogging Whories where you will be right at home?
If your mind is so locked into itself that you can’t see the parallels, then that is your problem.
If I want your opinions in the future I will ask for them.
I stand firmly on my analysis!
McKays speech on Afghanistan debate, so full of holes, there is no cheese left.
Most especially about the little green-eyed girl so full of hope. Here is the truth:
Grinding poverty and the escalating war is driving an increasing number of Afghan families to sell their daughters into forced marriages.
Girls as young as six are being married into a life of slavery and rape, often by multiple members of their new relatives. Banned from seeing their own parents or siblings, they are also prohibited from going to school. With little recognition of the illegality of the situation or any effective recourse, many of the victims are driven to self-immolation – burning themselves to death – or severe self-harm.
Six years after the US and Britain “freed” Afghan women from the oppressive Taliban regime, a new report proves that life is just as bad for most, and worse in some cases.
Projects started in the optimistic days of 2002 have begun to wane as the UK and its Nato allies fail to treat women’s rights as a priority, workers in the country insist.
The statistics in the report from Womankind, Afghan Women and Girls Seven Years On, make shocking reading. Violent attacks against females, usually domestic, are at epidemic proportions with 87 per cent of females complaining of such abuse – half of it sexual. More than 60 per cent of marriages are forced.
Despite a new law banning the practice, 57 per cent of brides are under the age of 16. The illiteracy rate among women is 88 per cent with just 5 per cent of girls attending secondary school.
Maternal mortality rates – one in nine women dies in childbirth – are the highest in the world alongside Sierra Leone. And 30 years of conflict have left more than one million widows with no enforceable rights, left to beg on the streets alongside an increasing number of orphans. Afghanistan is the only country in the world with a higher suicide rate among women than men.
Campaigners say these are nationwide figures but in war-torn provinces, such as Helmand, the British area of responsibility, oppression is often worse, though the dangers make it impossible for them to monitor it accurately.
The banned practice of offering money for a girl is still rampant – along with exchanging her as restitution for crime, debt or dispute. With the going price for a child bride at £800 to £2,000 – as much as three years salary for a labourer – many grooms are forced to take loans or swap their sisters instead, explained Partawmina Hashemee, the director of the Afghan Women Resource Centre.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/womens-lives-worse-than-ever-786752.html
Yep let’s keep forcing our ‘values’ onto mullahs and druglords, it should work in about 10 generations.
That is “over the top,” and yet you refer to the CON government as being too pro-Jewish, and pro Israeli?
By Ike on 02.25.08 12:43 pm
You are the only one making such connections. I never mentioned Nazis or Jewish, or Israeli, much less the Taliban, or any other foreign group in my comment.
You’re not a smart as you pretend to be Ike. In fact, you are phoney in your assumptive comments.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 12:15 pm
Thank you for posting all those diverse polling results, but surely you must agree that those numbers indicate the starting positions for each of the political parties.
Also the highly regarded Nanos poll on leadership provides us with the relative positions of the individual party leaders. What that polling seems to indicate for the three major national parties is that:
- Layton’s leadership popularity is above that of the NDP,
- Dion’s popularity is far below that of the Liberal party,
- Harper’s popularity is far above that of the Conservative party.
The questions becomes how can Harper boost Conservative party popularity nationwide, given his leadership is highly credible with Canadians? How can unpopular Dion raise Liberal party popularity above that of the Conservatives? And will Layton’s minor popularity boost the NDP above that of the Liberals?
The fact that Liberals are reluctant to precipitate an election soon, reveals their insecurity with their leadership by Dion. I believe this is a rational conclusion that is backed up by polling numbers.
Well folks we keep coming around to how much used hay is being put on Canadians.
The undeniable truth about Ontario is not high taxes, they boast the lowest corporate taxes in the great lakes region including US companies.
The problem is a lack of investment which Ontario started losing along with jobs in 2002.
Here`s another wagon load
http://tinyurl.com/34yc7c
Flaherty says federal budget will be prudent,
Mon Feb 25, 1:22 PM
The Canadian Press
And he repeated his recent attacks on Ontario’s Liberal government, saying the province’s high taxes on business investment are discouraging economic growth.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 12:27 pm
I will try to do that, without examining ‘personalities’ like Harry A$$, [sweetlips] a tight-ass moonwalking goof,..
Sounds like PP-boy is lusting after Harry’s S …LOL
THere is not a lot of “honor” there with all the accord denials and tax (IT) flip flops
By Doug on 02.25.08 12:53 pm
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/francis/pages/income-trust-takeovers-and-values-of-tax-losses.aspx
Deloitte puts the lie to the tax leakage purpose
“Since the fateful announcement on October 31, 2006, there have been 40 announced or completed trust buyouts versus 14 deals over the equivalent year-ago period. We have seen the trust population of 256 shrink by more than 15% to 215. Market conditions such as foreign exchange fluctuations and commodity prices also had an impact on this decline, but the trust tax announcement was certainly the catalyst for the sell-off,” wrote the expert accounting firm in a recent newsletter.
“In December 2006, Deloitte hosted an event for trustees and management of income trusts, and their investors, bankers and advisors. The participants were asked to estimate the number of trusts that would still exist at the end of 2010 – and 87% responded “fewer than 100.” A decline of this magnitude translates to almost 40 trusts per year – closely in line with current reality.
As at: December 08, 2007
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Mr Dion’s spocken english is definatly improving! I only wish my person spelling skills improved that much.
Mr Dion’s specking points regarding the debate in the house on the Afganastan mission all seem well thought out and resonable, given this complicated issue.
Looking forward to see wha is in the Harper and his gangs budget. I understand it will be read soon. Probable the better issue/time to have the government fall on if any, at this time. We sure don’t want Harper to get back in. He’ll only do more damage to Canada the longer he is the PM.
I’m ready for an election when ever the Liberals are ready to go. The sooner the better!
Looking forward to seeing the liberal election platform when the Harper Government falls and the election is on!
supporting a far right Conservative Party (e.g. by refusing to put a time limit on the Afghan mission or
C. B on 02.25.08 12:09 pm
This is the problem with labeling Parties by ideology stated or presumed. You need to use an example to support your hypothesis.
In fact there are no ideologies that can be permanently attached. Trudeau was more Marxist that democratic socialist. Mulroney might have influenced NAFTA but he also brought in more liberal taxes, the GST and funded all the liberal programs. Cretien was definitely liberal in keeping the GST but cuts programs like a conservative is said to do and Harper is now liberal.
As interesting it is hypothetically it does not or will not change the result of the next election from following the results of the last 10. Most of all it will not restore investor confidence in Canada.
The Good, the Bad,
Companies call for oilsands development freeze
and the UGLY!
Enbridge gets approval for $2B Alberta Clipper pipeline
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
A new freinds sent me an e-mail with info. on GM crop. I’ll copie some highlights titles. Sorry I can’t find an easy direct link to the atticals.
ISIS Press Release 06/02/06
GM Ban Long Overdue
Dozens Ill & Five Deaths in the Philippines
Dr. Mae-Wan Ho
A fully referenced version of this article is posted on ISIS members’ website. Details here
Contact the Institute of Science in Society
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/index.php
Global ban and safety enquiry long overdue as more damning evidence accumulates
The Institute of Science in Society, PO Box 51885, London NW2 9DH
telephone: [44 20 8452 2729] [44 20 7272 5636]
enquiries@i-sis.org.uk
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/contact.php
BTW, that’s the Honourable Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty and the Honourable Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper.
By Leasa on 02.25.08 10:16 am
In which case tell The Hon. Peter McKay that its the Hon. John Manley!
Garth, if you are trying to gain support from mainstream Canadians, using tactics like the suggestion that PMSH and Flaherty are criminals on whom you should call the police is just a tad, as they say, “over the top.”
Remember, what goes around comes around.Let’s not debase this campaign with personal accusations of criminality without legal evidence.
By Ike on 02.25.08 8:12 am
————————–
These are not tactics or suggestions that PMSH or Flaherty are criminals. It is a fact that they are criminals.Lie Conceal Fabricate is their agenda. 18 PAGES OF BLACKED OUT DOCUMENTS IS THE EVIDENCE.
And you,re right about what goes around comes around.
That should get your week off with a good laugh. Leasa
BTW, that’s the Honourable Minister of Finance, Jim Flaherty and the Honourable Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper.
By Leasa on 02.25.08 10:16 am
Sorry Leasa. In no way do I consider Stevie and Flim Flam honorable. Lyin’ Brian was a good friend of Stevie’s until the Schreiber stuff hit the fan and Mulroney has rubbed off on Stevie IMHO.
I never considered Martin very honorable either. However I prefer the Liberal dishonor to the dishonor and dictatorhsip of the neocons. The Liberals certainly are the lesser of the two evils in my mind. I believe Dion is honest, intelligent, principled and compassionate. I have hope that the majority of Canadians can see that is what the country needs at the moment.
I think a minister of finance that destroyed the finances of Ontario and is proceeding to do the same to Canada needs to be eliminated along with his dictator boss.
I also wish Garth would keep his word and keep Harry S. off this blog. Harry can go on a neocon blog and brag about how well they are doing all he wants.
2. Mr. McKay lists Vimy Ridge and Korea as defining Canadian military history. Note to Mr. McKay, Canada did not single handily fight WWI, WWII or Korea.
Hold your horses partners, The Taliban (whoever they are?) have no army, no navy, no marines, no air force, and no minister of defence, then again we are equal on that one. How dare he disgrace our old time Vets who fought toe to toe and round for round in battle. The War on Terror (again whatever that is is the same as the War on Drugs, A Yankee Invention! And he case he and others do not remember a declaration or War was made in WW I & II, Korea was a conflict that saw a army as a enemy.
By Charles Oxley on 02.25.08 12:29 am
Five to one baby,
one in five,
no one here gets, out alive…
Name of the song is Five to One.
Garth the request was made with tongue in cheek, of course we should right the wrongs of past and work together for the betterment of all Canadians. I know that yoy & I disagree on Afghanistan with the sound and valid arguments. LI believe that Afghans must first achieve peace by themselves before they can move forward. But! most agree as long as the poppy fields continue to provide billions and drug lords rule all else is a complete waste of time.
By Ike on 02.25.08 8:12 am
In the court of public opinion, which is the only one that counts come election time, you’re guilty until proven innocent when it comes to flip-flopping and breaking promises.
The numerous pages of blacked out information just does not provide any evidence for the defense. The star defense witness, Mr. Flaherty, has no credibility. Guilty as charged.
And now the IT investors, who were scammed by Harper, have made their victim impact statements.
The sentence has yet to be determined.. another minority (Harper’s worst nightmare) or a one way ticket to the back benches for the CPC.
These number projections are based on applying the Nanos poll MoE ± 3.3% to each of the Nanos party poll numbers of 34% .. so I am not pulling “numbers out of the air”..!!
I base this projection on the fact that Harper is considered to be twice as popular as Dion on the leadership factors of trustworthiness, competence and best vision for Canada according to the other Nanos poll. Surely you must give some credence and value to perception of leadership when Canadians make their voting decision ..!!!
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am
WOW, just simply WOW!!!!
Harry you clearly haven’t got a freaking clue how the margin or error works do you?
There isn’t one pollster who would claim the entire MOE would be deducted off on stat and placed on another stat.
Seriously Harry, stop, you are really embarrassing yourself with your display of complete ignorance when it comes to mathematics.
What an a$$ clown.
By Ed Brooks on 02.25.08 1:12 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:55 am
If the ONLY thing you can think of are the shortcomings of the Liberals, then your focus is far too narrow. Your prejudice is showing.
The other option is that in spite of two years of ‘wonderful’ leadership from Mr. Harper, Canadians are not yet prepared to trust the Conservatives with a majority.
That’s really got to hurt doesn’t it? If the Liberals are as bad as you, I, and others say, and Mr. Harper still can’t get Canadians to buy what you are selling, how good a leader does that make him?
Apparently, according to your post, it is because Canadians are too stupid to understand. Another good sales technique, insult the people that you want to sell your product to…
……………………………………………………
Oh come off it Ed … you are too intelligent to attempt your silly red herring arguments so that the Conservatives are the focus of our discussion, while the Liberals get a pass.
Based on current polls, the onus is on the Dion Liberals to justify their governmental hopes. Dion is an unpopular and even failed leader of the Liberal turmoil party .. and that cannot be papered over. My ‘prejudice’ is over the embedded corrupt Liberals who selected Dion as their status quo leader .. and protected themselves from the purge that would have happened if Ignatieff was fairly elected as Liberal party leader and then ‘renewed’ the party. I see the Liberals as still under the influence of corruption .. e.g. Billion$$$ for Chinese Carbon Credits.
Given Canadian’s 13 year love affair with the corrupt, overtaxing Liberals, you now expect a perfect Conservative government after 2 years of fragile minority government?? Why do you wear such emotional blinkers and conveniently forgetting the past Liberal record of broken promises, corruption and criminality??
And yes … Canadians are timid people bred of socialistic pap and government welfare support. What I depend on is how Canadians will vote, when they finally concentrate on politics during an election campaign. I believe that once Canadian voters see and hear Dion in televised election debates, they will utterly reject him as their next prime minister, thus rendering the Liberal party essentially leaderless and depending on individual riding candidates to win over the vote .. and admittedly, they have a better chance of doing that on their own depending on the Liberal brand rather than Dion’s leadership. Based on current poll results, I think it’s fair to conclude that Liberals have a non-credible leader in Dion.
In the current and election scenario like that, Conservatives will win a majority government, riding in on Harper’s coattails … plain and simple … and you have a problem with that future prospect ..??!!!
Rather interesting this ongoing conversation trying to determine who is the better leader, in fact, both are leaders, their merit in comparison to one another bears little relevance to the average voter as we have little, if any representation in the House of Commons. When one person can instruct all MP’s in their party as to how they will vote on any particular issue, who cares who is better. The real question here is how do we return democracy to the people of Canada. I would suggest under the present system neither leader is worthy of a vote, therefore, voting independent is the only viable option.
By Bonnie L on 02.25.08 2:34 pm
I also wish Garth would keep his word and keep Harry S. off this blog. Harry can go on a neocon blog and brag about how well they are doing all he wants.
………………………………………………………………..
You Bonnie L just don’t seem to understand the purpose of this fine forum provided by our MP Garth.
Just look at the banner at the top of the forum, where you will read:
Garth Turner Unedited – JOIN CANADIANS IN CONVERSATION WITH GARTH
… so the forum is unedited and for Canadians … and we should continually thank our MP Garth for that open and transparent exercise of democracy.
I hope Garth never follows your bigoted advice and restricts this fine forum for the likes of you. If you don’t like this open political arena, why don’t you go to some exclusively Lib-loving forum.
I also wish Garth would keep his word and keep Harry S. off this blog. Harry can go on a neocon blog and brag about how well they are doing all he wants.
By Bonnie L on 02.25.08 2:34 pm
but, but, this is the model of digital DEMOCRACY. Where good people come to denounce those neanderthals who don’t want to hear others’ opinions.
what are you telling me – you’d like this place to be more like the CPC caucus???
By Zorpheous on 02.25.08 2:45 pm
These number projections are based on applying the Nanos poll MoE ± 3.3% to each of the Nanos party poll numbers of 34% .. so I am not pulling “numbers out of the air”..!!
I base this projection on the fact that Harper is considered to be twice as popular as Dion on the leadership factors of trustworthiness, competence and best vision for Canada according to the other Nanos poll. Surely you must give some credence and value to perception of leadership when Canadians make their voting decision ..!!!
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am
………………………
WOW, just simply WOW!!!!
Harry you clearly haven’t got a freaking clue how the margin or error works do you?
There isn’t one pollster who would claim the entire MOE would be deducted off on stat and placed on another stat.
Seriously Harry, stop, you are really embarrassing yourself with your display of complete ignorance when it comes to mathematics.
What an a$$ clown.
……………………………………………………………..
WOW …. I try not to respond to a moron like you, but I do so on this occasion because you challenge my interpretation of the Nanos polling statistics.
What I have presented to the forum and Garth, is the fact that both parties are in the range of 30.7% to 37.3% according to the Nanos poll. I then placed the Conservatives at the upper range of the poll and Liberals at the lowest level, and I did this to reflect the 2 to 1 popularity of Harper over Dion in the other Nanos poll.
That interpretation is based on a dynamic effect based on the respective popularity of each leader on the Canadian voters. Surely you cannot expect a lowly leader like Dion to project the Liberal party to the upper range of the Nanos poll. Oh but wait … you can because you are a moron.
“Why do we not focus on the 25 things that Canada needs to be a better country? — Garth”
1: Abolish Senate
2: Abolish HoC
3: Reinstate rule of law
4: Remove SCoC power over democracy
5: Remove sole custody from Divorce Act
6: Remove Divorce Act from justice industry
7: Base import export tax on carbon footprint
8: Replace all taxes and fees with flat tax
9: Jail anyone using the root cause of crime for profit
10: End ethanol production from food stock
11: Lawyers to do 1hr community work for every 2 paid,,, just because
Is that a good start?
By got rope? on 02.25.08 1:13 pm
Hey GR I think we’re looking for 25 items of fairly general interest rather than a personal agenda.
In no particular order and certainly some overlap:
1 – Tax fairness.
2 – Income fairness
3 – A balanced social safety net.
4 – Sustainable development.
5 – A green social and industrial complex.
6 – A national transportation policy charged with planning our evolution from the personal automobile.
7 – Democratic and responsible government.
8 – A functional balance of power in government.
9 – Independent oversight of government.
10 – An independent judiciary.
11 – A free press independent of government control and sanction.
12 – Freedom of speech.
13 – Government oversight and regulation of globalization. (We have got to watch the SPP.)
14 – Universal health care.
15 – Affordable (by both parents and society/government) child care.
16 – Affordable government.
17 – Cost effective government.
18 – Leadership from government.
19 – Vision from government.
Garth, I think that we would need a new environment to do this properly. Some kind of a wiki with nominations, voting and sorting.
By pjw on 02.25.08 3:02 pm
Not necessarily “vote Independent”, but certainly vote independently. Non-partisan would be the way to go. Vote for a good candidate if you are fortunate enough to have one. Hopefully one who at least tells you that they will listen to the interests of their constituents and voice them regardless of party line.
18 – Leadership from government.
Incidentally I would like to make a clear distinction between leadership from government and leadership by a single individual in government. The latter is called a dictatorship.
11A – A free press independent of government control and sanction.
11B – A free press independent of corporate control and sanction.
Not necessarily “vote Independent”, but certainly vote independently. Non-partisan would be the way to go. Vote for a good candidate if you are fortunate enough to have one. Hopefully one who at least tells you that they will listen to the interests of their constituents and voice them regardless of party line.
By Brammer on 02.25.08 3:54 pm
You would be hard pressed to find someone who would be willing to defy the party leader, so where is the people’s representation? There is little or none under the present party system, time for a real change!
Why do we not focus on the 25 things that Canada needs to be a better country? — Garth
And the Number One thing is …..
.
.
.
.
.
.
…. the elimination of the gross $1.7 Billion subsidy shoveled into that Liberal propaganda organ .. THE CBC .. !!!
This is how our remodeled Parliament should look! LOL
By Brammer on 02.25.08 3:42 pm
Great list! Too bad all we can expect now is ‘They will be working on it!’
Hey GR I think we’re looking for 25 items of fairly general interest rather than a personal agenda
Brammer on 02.25.08 3:42 pm
Mr. Brammer
If you consider how many decades Cdns have been waiting on your wish list perhaps you`ll reconsider mine as necessary to getting yours, rather than accusing me of having a personal agenda.
I remind you we`ve gotten 1 months worth of work out of the last 24 which is about par over the last 40 years.
Perhaps it`s your personal agenda to maintain the status quo for another 40 years.
It`s still your choice to carry on attacking the messenger rather than debating what Canada needs to end our historically dysfunctional elected federal government?
That interpretation is based on a dynamic effect based on the respective popularity of each leader on the Canadian voters. Surely you cannot expect a lowly leader like Dion to project the Liberal party to the upper range of the Nanos poll. Oh but wait … you can because you are a moron.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 3:29 pm
We understand were you got your numbers from, just that your reasoning is flawed.
As as been pointed out adding the max to one and subtracting the max from the other shows you don’t understand how the math of polls works.
Then you add your conclusion is based on the “dynamic effect of the popularity of both leaders.” Has any empirical study been conducted to show this effect actually exists? And if it did, would it throw the numbers to the extremes of the polling accuracy? Not a chance.
That’s what really gets my goat about all this political spin, which is what you throw out every day. You throw out a theory no supporting evidence, and as long as no-one questions it, then it must be true…. wrong, its just more CRAP!
Next time, may I suggest you use Izal!
That interpretation is based on a dynamic effect based on the respective popularity of each leader on the Canadian voters. Surely you cannot expect a lowly leader like Dion to project the Liberal party to the upper range of the Nanos poll. Oh but wait … you can because you are a moron.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 3:29 pm
And your interpretation and use of the MOE is 100% incorrect Harry, if you had actually studied Statistics your would know this.
Also your assumption is also incorrect since it is not supported by the finding polls that suggests leadership is not major factor.
So your assumption is incorrect and use of the MOE is mathematically incorrect as well.
But you keep drinking that Harper Kool-aid Harry, it’s about the only thing you are good at.
“This, is the Liberal way. Campaign on one thing, do the opposite”
BY LEASA ON 02.25.08 10:16 AM
Does that make Mr Harper a Liberal–he campaigned on the no tax to income trusts which pulled him in enough votes to produce his minority.
MR Harper & Mr Flaherty justified their reversal on the basis of something called Tax Leakage for which their documented proof was several pages of heavily censored documents–these same documents were subsequently recalled by the Privy Council a short time later.
Leasa , how do you explain to us investors who feel cheated , what has occurred here & why it was done–all we can see is a cover-up.
Why would they do this????
If they have the proof we are wrong , then show it to us & we will shut up for good.
I would think that would be enough motivation on it`s own.
Without substantiated proof , then we think the worst–what else can we do.
Dr Mike.
Crime & Punishment:
Crime: Harper Government Guilty on (l-o-o-o-o-o-o-ng list) & full of 0′$ for the real Canadian.
Punishment: Oust.
My goodness. Iggy’s not only used the term ‘strategic goal’ properly during the ghan debate, he assigned the responsibility to the right entity.
kinda makes up for that policy to review policy thing that got cut-and-pasted.
Now if the Liberals can only get the spirit of the motion off the floor and and edited back into the paper tiger the Conservatives are pushing.
On Feb. 14 the Canadian military signed an agreemnet with the American forces to allow them into Canada during civil emergencies, even if it does not involve the U.S directly. This was reported on Canada.com on 2/24/08. Why was this not added to the list of reasons for a bringing down the government? Did you not know or do the Liberals agree with this?
Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age
Lorne Gunter – National Post – February 25, 2008
Snow cover over North America and much of Siberia, Mongolia and China is greater than at any time since 1966.
The U.S. National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) reported that many American cities and towns suffered record cold temperatures in January and early February. According to the NCDC, the average temperature in January “was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average.”
China is surviving its most brutal winter in a century. Temperatures in the normally balmy south were so low for so long that some middle-sized cities went days and even weeks without electricity because once power lines had toppled it was too cold or too icy to repair them.
There have been so many snow and ice storms in Ontario and Quebec in the past two months that the real estate market has felt the pinch as home buyers have stayed home rather than venturing out looking for new houses.
In just the first two weeks of February, Toronto received 70 cm of snow, smashing the record of 66.6 cm for the entire month set back in the pre-SUV, pre-Kyoto, pre-carbon footprint days of 1950.
And remember the Arctic Sea ice? The ice we were told so hysterically last fall had melted to its “lowest levels on record? Never mind that those records only date back as far as 1972 and that there is anthropological and geological evidence of much greater melts in the past.
The ice is back.
Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.
Much more at:
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289
I’m so glad I have a Logitech wireless mouse with a roll button.
I wish you American-Russian azzholes would get off this CANADIAN forum!!!
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:10 am
Sounds like PP-boy is lusting after Harry’s S …LOL
By Nikolai Nikolaivich on 02.25.08 1:44 pm
What would you like me to do? … Ask someone in Vancouver to visit a jewellery store … STEAL from the display tray, pass it to you, and provide the means for your betrothal to Harry?
I watched ‘mikey wallace’ today on the ethics committee inquiry … He like Hiebert, Tilson, and Del Mastro were unbelievably STUPID. They don’t even know how to ask a question … let alone set the basis for the question.
Is this what an MP does for $150,800 plus expenses per year? Mikey Wallace is going to be DE-HIRED in the next election … along with the FORTY-ONE other CPC members from Ontario.
By Don MacIntosh on 02.25.08 5:01 pm
On Feb. 14 the Canadian military signed an agreemnet with the American forces to allow them into Canada during civil emergencies, even if it does not involve the U.S directly. This was reported on Canada.com on 2/24/08. Why was this not added to the list of reasons for a bringing down the government? Did you not know or do the Liberals agree with this?
….
perhaps “they’re expecting” a Pandemic!? It’s part of “the plan” – whether SPP, NAU, or quarantines.
Mikey Wallace says, “Brian Mulroney, otherwise known as Byron of Muldoon, Ka-Ching Ka-Ching TOOK THE MONEY. Then, Mikey Wallace said, “He just made a mistake.” Do you, as conscientious [presumed] Christians, want to ‘forgive’ both Mikey Wallace and Brian Mulroney? I’m unwilling … I’d like to KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER.
Just, so’s Garth doesn’t think I’m slacking, I’m also working on the pine beetle problem in the forestry job loss crisis, as well as the MAJOR ONTARIO job loss problems in manufacturing.
Flim-Flam Dim-Jim Flaherty is UNWILLING to do anything about the problem. He’s going to be DE-ELECTED TOO!
http://www.pej.org/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=7211&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Why was this not added to the list of reasons for a bringing down the government? Did you not know or do the Liberals agree with this?
By Don MacIntosh on 02.25.08 5:01 pm
I haven’t seen the formal text as yet. When I see it, I’ll respond accordingly.
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 4:10 pm
By Zorpheous on 02.25.08 4:13 pm
…………………………………………
Let me try to explain my rationale …….
34% of those polled said they would equally choose either Conservative or Liberal. If another group of people were polled (different people than the ones in the first sample, but with the same demographics as the first sample), also at random, you could bet, with a significant amount of certainty, that no fewer than 30.7% (the minus 3.3% in the margin of error) and no more than 37.3% (the plus 3.3% in the margin of error) of the new group would say they would choose either the Conservatives or Liberals. I hope I got that right ….
All I am suggesting is that after a next election, the Conservatives could end up with 37.3% of the vote while the Liberals would only get 30.7%. The only thing the Nanos party poll represents in my analysis is the starting point for each party before the election and final vote … not a statistical number.
The Nanos leadership poll gives Harper a 2 to 1 edge in overall leadership popularity, and I have just applied this to the current Nanos party poll of 34% ± 3.3% MoE as a convenient starting point. If Nanos comes out with different numbers later on, I would do the same thing even though it’s applying the group sample results to specific parties.
I hope you don’t think that an election now would result in a tie between the Liberals and Conservatives given that Harper is twice as popular as Dion …!!!
You must somehow factor Harper’s strong leadership with Dion’s weak leadership into the 34% Nanos tie because Canadians do vote on leadership … and everybody here admits that Canadians still don’t know the ‘real’ Dion, while those who do know him hold him in very low regard ..!!
I am surprised you are not more strident and simply saying you will vote to bring down this government..
By PHIL ROMANENKO on 02.24.08 8:48 pm
The reason he isn’t is because Dion hasn’t told him what to do yet.
Is that the best bait you can hang? — Garth
By slg on 02.25.08 8:51 am
Well then slug, stop bitching when our North American car manufacturers are dumping their employees. You are part of the problem – not part of the solution.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 5:38 pm
I wish you American-Russian azzholes would get off this CANADIAN forum!!!
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:10 am
Sounds like PP-boy is lusting after Harry’s S …LOL
By Nikolai Nikolaivich on 02.25.08 1:44 pm
……….
What would you like me to do? … Ask someone in Vancouver to visit a jewellery store … STEAL from the display tray, pass it to you, and provide the means for your betrothal to Harry?
………………………………………..
Both Nikolai and I have the same ring finger size 12 .. I repeat, that’s finger size not …. oh forget it …!!!
Btw, PP-boy … I would never invite you to my nuptials … never … you Russian banyak .. so give your ring to your forum bumboy Billy-Muskrat …!!!
Now, how would you surmise a silly thing like that? — Garth
Because it will be a whipped vote and you would be out of caucus if you voted against the whip.
During Mr. Mulroney’s time, we were under a global recession. . . .
Hi Leasa. Ah, the ’80s. Remember them well. The Greedy Decade. Wall Street (the film), I.J. & Raiders of the Lost Ark, etc.
We lived in Hogtown then. I had a trade then, and constantly worked in legal, commercial and financial printing almost the entire decade.
Because I was so busy (overtime coming out of my ears), I never even noticed a global recession. I did one twenty four hour shift, as well as many 18 hour shifts.
Reagan was in charge of the States then (made sure Iraq had plenty of missiles so they could defeat Iran, but they didn’t), and Gorbachev did what Ronnie told him — tear down that wall.
I voted for Mulroney the first time, as I wanted to see Trudeau gone. When the next election came up, I saw he was nothing more than a sleazebag, so I switched to Green. Been there ever since.
Yes, I despised the GST when Wilson introduced it, but over time I began to see it as a positive tax, meaning that if I didn’t want or need something, then I didn’t have to waste money buying it. It is strictly a consumption tax, no more.
It is obvious that we will always be poles apart, and that’s the way it should be. Dion seems to be a lot more relevant than anyone I’ve seen lately (other than Greens), so I am willing to give him a chance.
Thank you, I am doing well here. The Valley needs about a month’s worth of rain in about two weeks or so to fill the lake up. Getting to be too many people coming to live here.
By Leasa on 02.25.08 12:43 pm
————————————————————————————-
By Brammer on 02.25.08 2:41 pm
Thanks for pointing out the song, Brammer.
Interesting: Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix and Curt Cobain — all crossed over to the inner planes (a.k.a. the other side) when they were 27 (I think).
Break on through!
Did someone take the little Hamburglar out for his kiddie meal?
He missed a whole hour between 4:01 p.m and 5:01 p.m.
This blog = 20 posts so far out of 153.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 6:03 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 5:17 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 4:01 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 3:29 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 3:06 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 2:54 pm
By Nikolai Nikolaivich on 02.25.08 1:44 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 1:33 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 1:17 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 12:19 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:55 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:47 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:41 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:28 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:10 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:06 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:18 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:38 am
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:30 am
By Harry S on 02.24.08 11:09 pm
Plus posts he made today on the last blog.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 2:27 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:56 am
HIS last post yesterday
By Harry S on 02.24.08 10:56 pm
His first post today
By Harry S on 02.25.08 9:30 am
Obsessed?
Garth, this could constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Is that in the crime bill?
Balance is what is needed, not a blinkered fixation on only paying down the debt. Paul Martin got caught with this affliction after balancing the budget, Jim Flaherty’s got it too!
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 9:03 am
Well paying down the debt actually saves us INTEREST charges – which frees up more fiscal room for program spending or tax cuts. Seems like a plan we should follow if we want our grand kids to benefit from our parents misbehaviour.
and everybody here admits
By Harry S on 02.25.08 6:03 pm
So, Harry A$$, you’re a janitor now. Such sweeping NONSENSE. You constantly repeat the same theme … None here think it has any relevance. The REAL QUESTION IS, how soon can we get rid of this Harper son-of-a-bitch?
Why was this not added to the list of reasons for a bringing down the government? Did you not know or do the Liberals agree with this?
by Mary.
This has been in the works long before the Conservatives came to power.
As for buying North American vehicles, do you check where they were assembled, US, Mexico or Canada? (Mexico and US, does little good to Canadian auto workers.) Do you check where the parts came from? (Canadian content) Or do you stick to the big 2 and a bit, excluding foreign companies that build cars, and provide jobs, in Canada? Or are you like Buzz H. who still hasn’t figured out that protectionism isn’t an option in the global economy and that NA. auto makers have to build cars people want, with the quality people desire, for the price people will pay, with the service people expect.
I’ve had 3 NA. built vehicles from one NA. manufacturer. I won’t buy another from them. The vehicles look good, but my experience of their quality and service leaves much to be desired.
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 9:03 am
Foreign companies which have some plants in North America may provide jobs, but, their profits don’t remain in North America. My family have always bought North American and have not have problems except for one (the Chevette – what a lemon).
And I’m not even a Dipper
“Because he paid down the national debt by more than 37 Billion, he saved Canada service (interest) payments” – Catherine
By Catherine on 02.25.08 4:52 am
You not only continue to lie with numbers… but your views concerning the economy are sadly out of touch. The Cons inherited a healthy economy that has in the past, produced healthy budgets under Liberal governmments. The Liberals have pared down federal debt from the 97-98 tax year to 05-06 tax year by 78 billion, or just under 10 billion a year on average. See for yourself.
http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Federal_Program_Spending_and_Revenues_1961-2009.pdf
In 2006, the Cons scrapped the Kelowna Accord (which all provinces had signed onto) along with other Liberal spending, while producing tax cuts, namely to the rich and a GST point with a strong commodity inherited economy to produce a 13 billion dollar surplus. Currently, they are still in a second budget of which the numbers have come in around 6.9 billion in surplus. This tally’s up at 20 billion, not the 37 billion you falsely (I believe intentionally) state.
The problem is, as we have found out with October, November numbers, that trade and the economoy has slowed. The surplus was 100 million in November and is highly likely to turn negative for the remainder of the 2007 budget. The Cons are at 20 billion in surplus over 22 months, with 3 months of numbers to come in Catherine, not 37 billion as you so falliciously state and lets not forget the economy they inherited here!
As for affordability, its true if your one of the lucky ones who bought a new car or a plasma TV. But the rest of us Joes swamped with higher costs of living haven’t seen any breaks.
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/01/25/inflation.html
“Statistics Canada said gasoline prices were 14.9 per cent higher than they were a year earlier, reflecting higher oil prices. But that increase was less than it was in November. Heating oil was 27 per cent more expensive.
Mortgage interest costs also picked up steam in December, rising 7.3 per cent over the year.
On a monthly basis, consumer prices rose by just a 10th of a per cent between November and December. Higher costs for gasoline, heating oil, air travel and fresh vegetables were offset by cheaper clothing, books and video equipment, “likely the result of Christmas specials,” Statistics Canada said.
What does it all mean? It means that if you’ve got cash to spend, a higher dollar has made import luxury items cheaper. But if you don’t have lots of spare cash, affordability is shrinking due to high inflation on goods people have to buy to survive and that, dear Catherine, is one of several percursors to a recession. Disappearing jobs like the 300,000 we’ve lost in manufacturing last year, shrinking equity in real estate and higher debt load combined with reduced affordability of necessary spending leading to bankrupcies are the other major factors, all of which is has happened or is about to leading up to a recession.
There is only one unknown… and that is commodities. If commodity valuations go down, Canadians are screwed and thats why the U.S. economy is worth watching because if their recession deepens, the global economy will have lost its number one customer and commodities are highly likely to tank as a result.
Not that any of this should bother you, Catherine. You like to make things up so pretending things are better than they are should be a snap for someone such as yourself to cope as things turn negative moving forward.
By brain on 02.25.08 9:15 am
Boy, brian, you should really change you signature – the Conservatives have indeed paid down the 37 Billion.
http://www.fin.gc.ca/news07/07-083e.html
You do remember that during the 2006 election campaign, you Libbers were accusing the Conservatives that there wasn’t the huge surpluses to use – that Mr. Paul Martin knew the numbers!
Perhaps, you would have wanted the Conservatives to have done what Liberal McGuinty did in 2003 – up the expenditures tremedously and claim that there was a deficit.
f Mr. Harper is such a good leader, why aren’t the Conservatives way ahead in those lovely polls you like to quote?
By Ed Brooks on 02.25.08 11:21 am
Good point but the same question can be asked about the Liberals. If Mr Dion is such a good leader why aren’t they way ahead in the polls. The polls indicate to me that the public doesn’t want either party to gain a majority just yet. I will say it once again that neither party will get a majority with the current leaders and also predict that a winter election will result in the same result as the last election. ( minority Conservative Government)
Just watching TV5 about Panasonic in Japan. They are now making their products so that 80% are recyclable. Why aren’t more companies doing the same.
The reason he isn’t is because Dion hasn’t told him what to do yet. by Van
Is that the best bait you can hang? — Garth
Garth,The truth is never bait. I am surprised you didn’t know that.
OT – On a lighter note. First time in 15+ years that I actually watched a bit of the Academy Awards – about the last half hour cause I woke up cause I had forgotten to put ‘sleep’ on. Can’t wait to see La Vie en Rose. I’ve been a big Edith Piaf fan as well as so many French singers from the 50/60′s. I/we have so many of the old records and now CD’s.
Did anyone see/hear about Sarkozy, France’s right wing President who told a farmer to fu%k off at the annual agriculture fair/forum. His ratings have dropped drastically since he was elected. His meeting with Merckel has been postponed by 3 months. Sarko, Bush and Harpo the Three Stooges.
The financial meltdown may be an ugly reality very soon.
http://tinyurl.com/ytv97q
By got rope? on 02.25.08 2:02 pm,
Your examples are from a period in which ideology far less defined parties. Trudeau was economically right and socially far left. Mulroney was not terribly ideological but he be was a wannabe who catered to the economic elite while still understanding the need for social programs.
Over the past couple of decades right wing ideology, particularly neo-capitalism, has taken over the public agenda through globalism.
Both Liberals and Conservatives are major promoters of the concept of global integration in spite of the fact that its impact on the general population in North America will be devastating as their incomes are be pushed down to compete with workers in the developing world.
The sad thing is that our establishment politicians don’t really care. As long as the economy keeps making low paying service and retail jobs to replace the good paying jobs lost and the statistics look good they don’t have to do anything but cater to the small cohort of Canadians that benefit from buying cheap and selling dear.
Why was this not added to the list of reasons for a bringing down the government?
By mary 1 on 02.25.08 5:51 pm
You`ve come a long way baby.
From reasons to elect such as a chicken in ever pot, a car in every driveway to reasons to bring down the government.
Leave Harry S. alone. He’s merely doing his Death Star job.
And he shares more than ring size with Nilolai N. They have the same platform, personality and writing style, as they should, being one and the same.
Did they? The Cdn economy has been shedding jobs and investors since 2002 while the surplus was nothing more than over taxation – SLG
http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Federal_Program_Spending_and_Revenues_1961-2009.pdf
Please. Read the link, SLG. Too call any kind of surplus overtaxation is ludicrous. Canada’s economic pie has been growing faster than inflation for some time. Liberal tax cuts have taken place ove the last 8 years, people simply forget they’ve happened and spending has increased. Quite simply, the economy has performed through sheer growth. Tell me… if someone pays more principle down on their loan than their morgage demands, does it mean they are undertaxed? C’mon.
Again, I’ll try to remind you all that a nation has to run surplus’s to achieve restructuring national debt with lower interest rates. It simply can’t happen any other way. To call surplus’s overtaxation and nothing more, is to completely overlook the undertaxation we had in the 70′s and 80′s especially or to ignore completely, the big picture and timelines of growth, increased spending and tax cuts since that time.
Some damage, as they say, is irreversible.”
By brain on 02.24.08 10:46 pm
That excuse was worn out in 93 with axe the tax. – SLG
Depends on how the expression is used. With M & A’s for an example, some damage is irreversable. No?
By C. B. Innes on 02.25.08 10:10 am
Fully agreed.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 5:17 pm
You really are a tard to come up with this. You’re wasting peoples time here with spammed polls and crap like this.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 6:21 pm
So, Harry A$$, you’re a janitor now. Such sweeping NONSENSE. You constantly repeat the same theme … None here think it has any relevance. The REAL QUESTION IS, how soon can we get rid of this Harper son-of-a-bitch?
…………………………………………
You, PP-boy, should consider going over to the babble.ca forum where your style of crap would fit right in with your demented pov.
And concerning my postings on this fine forum .. if ” None here think it has any relevance.” … then why are so many responding, because your messages are certainly the demented garblings of a forum idiot.
BTW … I don’t think MP Garth would want anybody here calling The Right Honourable Prime MInister Stephen Joseph Harper a son-of-a-bitch. Perhaps you should check out your own mother’s past predilictions that resulted in your untimely birth. You might discover why you are such an agitated mindlet.
By Van on 02.25.08 6:39 pm
There’s no point in asking me that question, as I agree that M. Dion has not demonstrated apparent leadership qualities to date.
Deflecting my question, although admitting the accuracy, doesn’t change the point.
I have seen a couple of reports on food shortages today (different parts of the world).
One was a little different — it said that because of the mass exodus of bees, there may be an ice cream shortage.
Harold Ballard is spinning in his grave!
http://tinyurl.com/22jm9h
The surplus for the fiscal year ending March 31 will be $13 billion, a government official told The Canadian Press on Monday.
At least two-thirds of the surplus will go towards debt reduction, but the rest may go towards boosting infrastructure.
The question is, “Will the $13 billion surplus be enough for Monsieur Dion to bring down the government, or will he insist that we should have spent more as the NDP will do?”
Bill Muskoka, how can I respect you when you won’t even acknowledge your own well-known views that the Harper government is too pro-Israeli and not supportive enough of the other side in the Middle East conflict?
Of course, you didn’t say anything in today’s post about the government being too pro-Israeli, but in the context of your previous statements, I find it ironical that today you would equate this government with the pro-Nazi Fourth Reich.
It is all facetious, I take it, but the metaphors that you are using to describe the government are contradictory. You use emotional rhetoric like this frequently rather than reason, and this is why I cannot relate to your kind of hyperbole unrelated to sound, reasoned discourse.
Oh Harry, you poor idiotic fool.
You want to claim leadership will be major issue and that it will swing the moe on the national support for the parties, but you clearly do not understand the.
Now you will hanve excuse me if my numbers are off abit, because I’m doing this on my pocket pc, so these numbers are from memory. I’ll even go as far to tilt every available number in Harper’s favour while giving Dion nothing.
National the libs and cpc are tied at 34%
About 33% see Harper as the best leader. 17% see Dion as the better leader. Now in that leadership poll that you LOVE to Harper on about, about 20% are undecided, but lets call it 25%. *ow from that same polling analysis, we learn that at most 5.2% feel that leadership is a deciding issue that will effect their vote. Now lets tae your view that leadership will become really uber important and it ends up doubling how voters decide to cast their vote, let’s call 10% to keep things simple.
that means of the 25% of people who are currently undecided on the leadership issue, but who will cast their vote based on, of them, at most, 42% (taking the maximum from the regional stats) will vote for Harper
Ready Harry
0.2 x 0.42 x 0.1 = 0.0105
or 1.05%
which is inside the moe on the national support poll.
NOW, if you stop doing all the gimmes to harper, the number is actually about 0.33%.
See, mathematical, statistacally and logically you wrong and full of shit.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 6:03 pm
You forgot the Izal!
The first part is exactly correct, that being the anticipated result of a poll of similar size would be similar +- 3.3%.
Your logic falls down on using the Harper to 2 for 1 on Dion to justify moving the CPC numbers up and Liberal numbers down. The majority of people have stated that party leadership party is not the deciding factor as to which party they would vote for.
If it were, then we would expect to see that reflected in party poll results with the CPC far ahead of the Libs.
Thats not the case, and only goes to confirm that leadership is not the issue on which people will vote.
Hence the “Dion is not a leader,” campaign, of which you subscribe, is shooting blanks even if it were true, which of course it isn’t!
Take the Afghan motion as an example. The original CPC motion said nothing except the mission will continue to whenever.
Compare that to the motion presented today. How much of that came directly from the Liberal ammendment crafted with the consensus of the Lib caucus under the leadership of Mr. Dion. 70-85% at a rough estimate. So where’s the leadership, Harry? It isn’t in the CPC.
Oh come off it Ed … you are too intelligent to attempt your silly red herring arguments so that the Conservatives are the focus of our discussion, while the Liberals get a pass.
Based on current polls, the onus is on the Dion Liberals to justify their governmental hopes. Dion is an unpopular and even failed leader of the Liberal turmoil party .. and that cannot be papered over. My ‘prejudice’ is over the embedded corrupt Liberals who selected Dion as their status quo leader…
Harry, I have never said the Liberals should get a pass. I have argued that they made a huge mistake selecting M. Dion as the leader. It would have been far smarter for someone to come in from ‘outside’, say a few Hail Marys and address the systemic abuses of the Chretien years.
If anything, it is the Conservatives who you are attempting to give a pass to. All that you are focusing on is Dion, and his low leadership numbers.
Your comment about the onus being on the Liberals because of the current polls yet again shows your singular focus on leadership preferences. Why, in your mind, is the onus not on the Conservative party to gain the trust of the Canadian people so that they advance beyond a statistical tie with a party you say is corrupt?
Why has Mr. Harper not lead his party to 40%+ in the polls? Certainly, my expectation when I voted Conservative was that Mr. Harper would set an example of good government, that the Canadian people would recognize and acknowledge to be superior to the Liberal brand. This has not happened.
I don’t see where I have set out any kind of a red herring. I have always held the Conservative Party to a high standard, superior to the Liberals. I’m not sure they have demonstrated that, yet.
The red herrings are your attempt to focus exclusively on leadership polls, while totally ignoring party preferences.
…and then of course, there is your exagerated and flagrant misuse of the MOE in statistics, trying to acheive a statistic and justification that just isn’t in those numbers…
By Catherine on 02.25.08 6:24 pm
1. Chevy Cavalier 1988. Air conditioning falls after 3 months. replacement parts in spec. don’t fit.
2. 1993 Pontiac Transport. Buy additional 4 year warantee. Cylinder head gasket blows after 3 years. Dealership misdiagnoses for 6 months until vehicle undrivable. But not covered under 4 year warantee because dealership didn’t advise that warantee started from in-service date, 6 months before I purchased.
3. Saturn lease with GMAC. Scheduled return with dealer. Returned as arranged, no one there to inspect/accept vehicle. 6 Months later sent $1,000 repair bill for damage not present when returned. (Have heard others who have had same problem but paid just to get collectors of their backs.)
GM – 3 strikes, you’re out!
4. Ford Windstar (not mine, but a friends.) 200Km outside of warantee, transmission blows up. This is a common problem but, Ford won’t cover. Dealership wants to charge double what a specialised transmission shop will charge. (Garth – if anything remove dealership monopoly on diagnostics.)
5. Chrysler Neon.. next door neighbour. Wiring problems. I spotted the lights were still on. When I checked, the steering column was extremely hot. Fire brigade called. Dealership advised the thing would have gone up in smoke if battery not disconnected. Neighbour unhappy I didn’t let it burn.
Now why would I want to buy a vehicle from a North American big 2 and a bit company? They don’t deserve to make any profit.
By Catherine on 02.25.08 6:24 pm
I forgot…
second hand 1983 Honda Accord. Ran the thing into the ground. 240,000Km on the clock, not a single engine or transmission problem. Leaky gas tank after 7 years. Honda replaced at no charge. If the body hadn’t rotted out after 12 years, I’m sure the thing would still be running today!
By Harry S
the purge that would have happened if Ignatieff was fairly elected as Liberal party leader and then ‘renewed’ the party.
Harry, I’ve asked you before about where this opinion but you have never answered me, or I missed it, but I doubt that.
As I recall Mr. Ignatieff had much more establishment support (he was the front runner) and Mr. Dion was viewed as a dark horse. Mr. Kennedy spoke the most about renewal during the leadership campaign and in the end support Dion. What I would like to know is why you think Ignatieff was the renewal candidate.
I would guess it is because some voted for Dion on the “Anyone but Iggy” premise. That may be but I don’t think it makes Ignatieff the renewal candidate. I like Ignatieff and think he brings a lot to the Liberal caucus, but I worry that had he won the leadership that we (the Libs) may be in worse shape than we are today. I can just imagine the pre-election offensive that would have been run against him (e.g. not a Canadian, supports torture, etc.).
By Catherine on 02.25.08 6:30 pm
“The Government also announced it is planning additional debt reduction of $10 billion this fiscal year, for a total of more than $37 billion in debt relief since coming to office.” – Catherines link
If you mean this clip taken out of your link, then you really are that friggin stupid. These aren’t hard numbers but estimates.
As for the rest of your dribble, this New Con government has the largest spending to date with continued spending increases and tax cut projections based on future endless growth as your link clearly states. This in itself is a recipe for disaster if history repeats itself.
In 2002 and 2003, we had lower national revenue than we had compared to 2001. What changed? Try commodity valuations. To think that history won’t repeat itself in the face of a commodity bubble is to be as disillusioned as Flarethy.
http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Federal_Program_Spending_and_Revenues_1961-2009.pdf
Again, the Cons can claim an inherited 13 billion surplus for the tax year of late Feb 2006 to late Feb 2007. They can claim 6.9 billion from late Feb 2007 to date of which the New Cons are on record by saying there will only be 3 billion going towards debt meaning they are already 8 billion shy of their projected 11 billion dollar surplus estimate to debt reduction for the 2007 tax year. All told, this adds up to 19.9 billion worth of hard numbers in debt reduction since the New Cons took office over 2 years and already, they are predicting a 3 billion debt reduction for the 2007 tax year as well as the 2008 tax year. If they even achieve a surplus for 2008, their debt reduction will be 19 billion or roughly half of the 37 billion they said they would achieve. My thoughts are that the New Cons will run red ink from here on in. December might bring in another modest monthly surplus, but thats the last of them for your beloved New Cons.
Again, any idiot can project future endless growth and spin propaganda like this. Its sad to see that people like yourself believe it.
By Catherine on 02.25.08 6:24 pm
Now here’s an interesting observation from last weeks Motoring 2008 tv. show.
Two vehicles were highlighted:
1. The Hemi powered Jeep Cherokee SXT8
2. The heavy Rolls Royce Phantom with its massive 12 cyclinder engine.
Guess which one had the better fuel economy. The Rolls!
I say Go For It.Bring The crappers Down.No Matter what the pollsters say and yes the Landliner voters maybe be neck and neck,but they ALL leave the College Coeds and the Youth Vote out of the equation.Mr.Dion is Popular with Young Voters and They re Interested in Voting in the Next Election. Garth tell Dion to Have Faith in the Youth Vote and Do as Old JC says Forget the Nervous nellies and bring Down Harper.I think The ‘Pundit journalists” and the CPC will be surprised. The Youth in this country and the USA are going to Slay the Old CON Capitalists. There’s a Progressive movement in the US and that doesn’t make them Left or Right and that’a why I like the Dion liberals for he has welcomed Garth into the Party,has Not Stiffled Garth’s opinions voiced on Garth’s blog and also Considers Garth a Valued Advisor. This is the type of Progressives that Canadians need running the Government.
By Zorpheous on 02.25.08 7:26 pm
(N)ow from that same polling analysis, we learn that at most 5.2% feel that leadership is a deciding issue that will effect their vote.
…………………………….
Sorry, but I couldn’t find this stat from the Nanos Federal Leadership Report Card Survey. Where did you find this number?
I may be ‘statistically’ wrong, but I explained that I took the 34% and extended it for the leadership factor during an election campaign, because I truly believe that Harper will out-leadership Dion and possibly by the +/- 3.3% MoE.
The point I am trying to make is that the Conservatives are better positioned to increase their overall popular vote during an election than the Liberals can, mainly due to Dion’s non-leadership.
Btw .. most of the other polls indicate that the spread is about 7% points between the parties in favour of the Conservatives.
———————————————————-
By James- Chatham on 02.25.08 7:28 pm
Your logic falls down on using the Harper to 2 for 1 on Dion to justify moving the CPC numbers up and Liberal numbers down. The majority of people have stated that party leadership party is not the deciding factor as to which party they would vote for.
…………………………………..
Again, James, where do you get the stats to conclude that … “The majority of people have stated that party leadership party is not the deciding factor as to which party they would vote for.” ??
The rest of your posting is non sequitor ….
Over the past couple of decades right wing ideology, particularly neo-capitalism, has taken over the public agenda through globalism.
C. B on 02.25.08 7:01 pm
I`m sorry I moved you from hypothetical ideologies to facts. The fact is Canada joined the kick off of globalization under Trudeau. It didn`t turn a noticeable wheel until Chretein was the PM with some very noticeable growth. As you can see your hypothesis of political ideology will never match the facts as few consider those two as right wing ideologists, particularly neo-capitalists.
As I`ve earlier suggested, you might want to label the Parties by results rather than from their flowing speeches unless of course this is purely a hypothetical conversation intended to enjoy.
Harry S
I have had it with your racism, sexism, namecalling, and your utter contempt for anything not conservative.
You hide behind your computer spouting hate because you are a coward .
Do you realize you are doing more damage to your cause than good?
What I think you need is a good old fashioned ass-kicking.
What does the S stand for anyway?
To call surplus’s overtaxation and nothing more, is to completely overlook the undertaxation we had in the 70’s and 80’s especially or to ignore completely, the big picture and timelines of growth, increased spending and tax cuts since that time.
By brain on 02.25.08 7:11 pm
You may have been undertaxed in that period that was not our experience.
We were struggling because of high mortage rates when the government not only removed family allowances but also the deduction for dependent children. At that time our income was slightly below average after coming through several years of a wage freeze.
With real income declining there was no room to absorb higher taxation for those in our income range.
The problem was caused by removing much of the control over credit unleashing inflation as credit expanded. This forced up interest rates and government had to borrow from the private sector at the high interest rates generated by the need to control inflation.
The problem was not caused by undertaxation but the financial restructuring required to promote globalization.
Interesting comments on Mike Duffy today.Tva and la presse both agreed on a couple of things.One-the liberal party is in trouble financially.Two-no one in the party has reacted to Dion’s call to get ready for an election,basically an internal mutany against him.Three-Bob Rae is the only one to have paid off his leadership bid debt,and is loading up ridings with his supporters the same way Paul Martin did just before he stabbed Uncle Jean in the back.The pattern suggests that Dion’s days are numbered,election or not.
That was not “TVA and La Presse” agreeing on anything – but two reporters, one of who is a former MP who has a hate-on for Dion. I’m glad you’re not reporting. — Garth
Leasa, Please supply pictures of you eating your shirt.
By Rolf on 02.25.08 12:58 pm
Only in your dreams sweetheart!
*******
Scanning over this blog this last few days, I see we have a serious problem between some of the man-posters. I think there is only one way to solve the growing hostilities. Speedo-man-shiny-mud-wrestling. Yup. Winner takes all. The fine women on this forum, myself included will be the judges. I also think it would be most fitting since the arguments are over politics, to arrange for the event to take place in the HoC, right after question period. Garth, can you see to this for us? Thanks, you’re a dear. Get back to us, when an area can be made available. Bill, Harry, Pytro and any other boys with a bone to pick…if you don’t have speedos in your wardrobe, please make the needed purchases. (sparkly ones would be nice)
Night all. Leasa
The problem was caused by removing much of the control over credit unleashing inflation as credit expanded. This forced up interest rates and government had to borrow from the private sector at the high interest rates generated by the need to control inflation.
The problem was not caused by undertaxation but the financial restructuring required to promote globalization.
By C. B. Innes on 02.25.08 9:13 pm
CB this is an excellent review of that period.
This is the connection to what the current situation amounts to.
“We were struggling”
That in a nut shell is exactly what has happened again, broke consumers only much more so. So broke in fact the US bailed them out and now BC. Given the current numbers on the struggling masses this has far more damage potential than the 80`s housing crash.
Ass kicking went out with the Middle Ages, and has no place in this enlightened age where we use persuasion rather than violence to make our point.
If ass kicking does not work, what do we use next, the bullet? We live in a society that believes in the ballot rather than the bullet when when it comes to dealing with fellow Canadians.
You both have a vote, and an equal right to express your point democratically and gracefully.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 8:10 pm
That’s 22.
11.52% of todays postings so far. Down from the earlier tally which represented 13.1%.
Speculation and interpretive dance, not required.
So Monsieur Dion will vote in favour of extending the mission in Afghanistan for two more years?
How will Garth vote? According to Monsieur Dion, or the straw vote taken at your town hall meeting last week?
By Herb on 02.25.08 7:10 pm
You’re right. If posters respond to harry’s putrid rhetoric, that gives him / her / it another shot in the dark. It’s not worth the effort.
BTW, some may remember my former girlfriend, Ms. The Shadow Knows and the intensity of the relationship we had. Giant sun spots were fluffy balls of cotton compared to what we endured!
Via the grapevine, I understand that she and a renegade Klingon have had the hots for one another. May work, may not.
Apparently, they have vast, and individual black holes in the universe (impossible to live together, not sure which universe they’re in), which are living quarters, as they throw nukes at each other for fun!
I wish her well. Time for me to get another Section 8.
The average Conservative supporter is driven by policies, hordes of Liberals vote by rote and tradition, and leadership is barely a factor in the current popularity of any of the federal parties.
Sounds preposterous? You bet it does.
But those are among the results of a stunning new Nanos Research-Sun Media public opinion poll that turns conventional wisdom on its head, and is guaranteed to cause more than a little shock and awe among the chattering classes.
This is no rogue survey. Pollster Nik Nanos is arguably the most respected in the country, having accurately predicted the outcomes of the last two federal elections within a decimal point.
Unlike other political surveys, the Nanos poll not only asked Canadians how they would vote, but added the pivotal question: Why?
The answers help to solve one of the most baffling mysteries about the current state of federal politics in this country:
How is it the Liberals have stumbled and fumbled under the leadership of Stephane Dion and still remain effectively tied in popularity with the ruling Conservatives who, by comparison, have been doing a decent job?
In short, what the heck are voters thinking?
Turns out leadership may not influence the average Canadian psyche nearly as much as the media coverage — and the partisan spin — would have us believe.
Au contraire, says pollster Nik Nanos, “leadership isn’t even on the radar.”
Instead, Conservative voters seem to be driven by ideology more than anything else — things such as taxes, crime and defence.
Fully 27% of Conservative supporters in the survey said their party choice was mostly because of “good policies.”
The next most common attraction among Tory voters is the performance of Stephen Harper’s government .
Just under 19% said they would vote Conservative because the party has been “doing a good job.”
By comparison, only 15 out of 282 Conservative supporters surveyed said their choice was motivated by Harper’s being the “best leader,” or other leadership issues such as Dion’s being the worst.
So much for all those Conservative attack ads painting Dion as weak and indecisive.
Ditto for all the Tory propaganda portraying the Liberals as corrupt — the survey found exactly the same number of Grit and Conservative supporters who said their votes were most influenced by trust and honesty issues.
All of which is bound to cause much eye-rolling among Tory strategists and other insiders — including numerous cabinet ministers — who have long questioned the wisdom of feeding Canadian voters nothing but all Harper all the time.
————————————-
That loud explosion you just heard people, was Harry’s bubble world exploding
Dear Harry,
I may be ’statistically’ wrong, but I explained that I took the 34% and extended it for the leadership factor during an election campaign, because I truly believe that Harper will out-leadership Dion and possibly by the +/- 3.3% MoE.
Your explanation is still completely wrong, and it doesn’t matter a pair of roting hyena’s kidneys what you believe.
Mathematically, statistically and logically you are wrong.
The leadership factor could only move the national party support numbers for Harper by 0.33%, if all the moe was pushed to the positive for harper and negative for dion. And that 0.33% is 10% of the MOE on the national polling support for the parties, which means it is completely meaningless.
Maybe you should pick a statistic book for Dummies, but that might be an advanced read for you,… maybe you could try Statistics for Morons.
This through ass-wooping is brought to you letters ID and the number 10 and the special letter “T”
By Keith Phibbs on 02.25.08 8:33 pm
Harry S
I have had it with your racism, sexism, namecalling, and your utter contempt for anything not conservative.
You hide behind your computer spouting hate because you are a coward .
Do you realize you are doing more damage to your cause than good?
What I think you need is a good old fashioned ass-kicking.
What does the S stand for anyway?
……………………………………………..
Okay, Keith, I’ll bite …….
Racism — I’m a human racists while you are a terminal neoDeviate.
Sexism — I love sex .. and it sounds like you don’t .. or even get it.
Namecalling — I call people by their names often.
Utter contempt for anything not conservative — Now I take umbrage at that accusation !!! I have utter contempt for the old guard Liberal crooks who are still embedded within the Liberal party and dragging it down with Dion as their front leader. I would have preferred an Ontario-based leader of the Liberal party like Ignatieff to stop the string of Liberal leaders from Quebec. I also want to see the NDP as the next Official Opposition Party led by Layton as Leader of the official opposition.
I don’t ‘hate’ … well maybe the American-Russian axis that has aligned itself on this fine forum (PP-boy/Billy-Muskrat), trying to tell us real Canadians how to run our country.
And I don’t think I am damaging anybody’s ’cause’ … only advancing the cause for good government for all of Canada … just like MP Garth.
What is disturbing about your kooky outburst is your proclamation:
You hide behind your computer spouting hate because you are a coward .
… and …
What I think you need is a good old fashioned ass-kicking.
Doesn’t this reveal your own ‘cowardice’ and then threatening ‘ass-kicking’ .. while ‘hiding’ behind your own keyboard …. you pissant …!!!
Btw … just think of the “S” as standing for “Smart” … LOL
By got rope? on 02.25.08 8:13 pm,
You are correct in saying that that Trudeau and Chretien are not seen as right wing but they were economically classical liberals (free market capitalists). Many people don’t understand that what today is considered conservative is classical liberalism except that it is combined with the European elitist conservative belief in protecting privilege.
The major differences between the Harper Conservatives and the Trudeau, Martin, Chretien Liberals was the belief that right wing economic policy had to be tempered by left wing social policy. Still the Chretien/Martin government put the right wing economic policy of globalism before social policy in the way it managed the deficit.
Where the Harper Conservatives differ from the Liberals is that they reject the idea is that capitalism and capitalist greed needs to be tempered through social policy. They believe that selfishness is a good thing and should not be curtailed by government action.
Both parties are ignoring the negative impact of globalization on Canadians and are only seeing the need for Canadian neo-capitalists to succeed in the global competition for wealth and economic power.
Interesting comments on Mike Duffy today.Tva and la presse both agreed on a couple of things.One-the liberal party is in trouble financially.Two-no one in the party has reacted to Dion’s call to get ready for an election,basically an internal mutany against him.Three-Bob Rae is the only one to have paid off his leadership bid debt,and is loading up ridings with his supporters the same way Paul Martin did just before he stabbed Uncle Jean in the back.The pattern suggests that Dion’s days are numbered,election or not.
That was not “TVA and La Presse” agreeing on anything – but two reporters, one of who is a former MP who has a hate-on for Dion. I’m glad you’re not reporting. — Garth
By Bob R. on 02.25.08 9:22 pm
I saw the piece on CTV as well and it totally contradicted what was said I think on Question Period yesterday. Those pundits said that they were seeing signs that all parties were gearing up for an election and gave some examples. One of the examples was that the Conservatives were making announcement after announcement of money for this and that and that and another example was that Liberal brochures were being delivered to houses.
What they were calling a Rae attempt to takeover the party may have been more a function of his byelection campaign than anything else.
The Liberals have been unpopular in Quebec since the adscam and Dion is blamed for the clarity bill which is ironic because Harper has in the past taken credit for it.
Both parties are ignoring the negative impact of globalization on Canadians
By C. B. n 02.25.08 10:11 pm
The list of positives from globalization including benefits to Cdns is a much longer list than the negatives.
Oh and Harry, here Nanos’ numbers, read very carefully and take not of the party split information, the leadership numbers
http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/2008/02/24/pf-4872231.html
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T283.pdf
Nanos and the Toronto Sun
Now here are some milk and cookies for Harry,… now off to bed, you have a busy day of trolling tomorrow
Be glad all you want Garth.Truth is that 3 different MSM outlets are now reporting what I just said.Will you agree when the liberal “holy grail”CBC picks up on it and runs with it?
Btw … just think of the “S” as standing for “Smart” … LOL
As in “Get Smart”?
By Zorpheous on 02.25.08 9:48 pm
Yes yes, but you still have not told us where you get “…5.2% feel that leadership is a deciding issue that will effect their vote.” What are you hiding?!
Also, courtesy of PP-boy, we have polling results from other polling firms, and they solidly put the Conservatives ahead of the Liberals. Look here at …. By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 12:15 pm
The Nanos party poll will be affected during an election campaign, and Dion is in a deep and desperate hole right from the start. Once the Conservative and NDP attack ads gear up and Dion must face the nation and try to explain his leadership vision with his imperfect English delivery … well .. then you will see the Liberal party popularity plummet as voting day approaches, but don’t let that upset you with your juvenile cartoons.
Quebecers already despise Dion, and once the RoC gets a good gander at Liberal leader Dion, they too will reject him .. and the Liberal popularity will tank. Some in the MSM are now even saying Dion will not be leading the Liberals in any next election ..!!!
By Bob R. on 02.25.08 9:22 pm
Interesting comments on Mike Duffy today. Tva and la presse both agreed on a couple of things.
One – the Liberal party is in trouble financially.
Two – no one in the party has reacted to Dion’s call to get ready for an election, basically an internal mutiny against him.
Three – Bob Rae is the only one to have paid off his leadership bid debt,and is loading up ridings with his supporters the same way Paul Martin did just before he stabbed Uncle Jean in the back.
The pattern suggests that Dion’s days are numbered, election or not.
………………………………..
Some even suggest that with his brother John Rae heading up his campaign that Powercorp has abandoned Dion and is promoting Bob Rae as the next Liberal leader. John Rae, I believe, is or was an executive v-p in Powercorp whose owner is reputed to be the ‘eminence grise’ of the Liberal party. Of course that is only my conjecture.
Oh .. and La Presse is also owned by Powercorp …
Btw … just think of the “S” as standing for “Smart” … LOL
LMAO! I thought it meant Sweet!
By Charles Oxley on 02.25.08 9:48 pm
Damn those Neutron Stars, eh? LMAO!
Ah yes, TSK…JS. Apparently that terminal went ‘terminal’ at the CRAP Death Star!
Pyotr,
Btw, PP-boy … I would never invite you to my nuptials
HS is holding a Butt Plug party, aka ‘Try it on for size’ for his friends apparently. I bet Van (aka, Van Loan), Baird, and of course, Steve will be the first to arrive. What a perfect fit to be sure!
By C. B. Innes on 02.25.08 9:13 pm
Your much closer to the truth of it. The deficits caused by Trudeau and Mulroney had more to do with moving away fromt he gold standard and towards financial institutions and their greed than anything. The bank of Canada could have assumed the deficit’s earlier on in Trudeau’s era and interest rates could have been more controlled from there. There were major blunders financially from both the Libs and Cons, but the numbers still speak for themselves in terms of who spent the most and got the least. It was the Cons hands down driving up $330 billion in debt over a decade to Trudeau’s $190 billion or so.
Trudeau did some spending that was also quite nationalist. I could be wrong but the figures of $30 billion spent on an NEP and another $20 billion spent on insulating Canadian homes accounted for more than a quarter of the debt Trudeau racked up. It was the interest that killed us, much of it engineered by foreign banks during Mulroney’s reign that screwed us from what I remember.
Again, any idiot can project future endless growth and spin propaganda like this. Its sad to see that people like yourself believe it.
By brain on 02.25.08 7:50 pm
Should this year’s surplus make it possible for the Conservative projection of paying down the debt by 37 Billion, will you opening admit that you are wrong and will then opening admit that you will change your dumb “brain” signature?
Can we have your promise? Oh wait, you are a Liberal – promises are not worth the paper their written on.
And you know what’s stupid about these Libbers – their own Ontario Liberal leader seems to be missing in action, as Ontario’s manufacturing sector is struggling. McGuinty doesn’t think it’s important to have the Ontario Legislature sit. Guess how many days McGuinty and his government has sat since JUNE 2007?
Seems to me on motions of confidence that each party gets whipped to vote the way the party leader decided. BQ and NDP vote “Nay,” because they have nothing to lose, Liberals vote, “Nay” because Dion doesn’t want an election at this time. My question is, “When will Dion be ready? The electorate is becoming impatient with his reluctance to call an election.
Garth…silly question, you will vote on motions of confidence in the manner the party decided. If you do not, you will be booted again.
By Harry S on 02.25.08 10:00 pm
That’s 23. And the S is for Slitherin.
Word has it that he and Dumbledore were the best of friends.
Gee Harry I put it bold, let me highlight the part for you again
By comparison, only 15 out of 282 Conservative supporters surveyed said their choice was motivated by Harper’s being the “best leader,” or other leadership issues such as Dion’s being the worst.
15/282 * 100% = 5.3%
(oopsie, oh well, I did say my original that I was doing the number from memory)
From the Nanos data sheet Harry we see only 4.0% of respondents choose leadership as their key factor.
Try reading Harry and actually looking at all the numbers.
What a ‘tard
The REAL QUESTION IS; how soon can we get rid of this Harper son-of-a-bitch?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.25.08 6:21 pm
By Harry S on 02.25.08 7:12 pm
Harry A$$ actually liked my comment[s]
…He repeated them verbatim and mentioned my mother too. Thanks, Harry A$$, for revealing your sensitive side. For a linear thinker, you are certainly a stupid M/f’r. It’s a transitional condition, Harry A$$, where you migrate from big Effin’ Dummy to squishy mannequin.
Night all. Leasa
By Leasa on 02.25.08 9:23 pm
We ALL have NOTHING but total admiration for your ‘stick-to-it-iveness’ Leasa … taking a physical trait and making it into a franchise internationally. WOW WOW AND BOW-WOW!
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3935227043530234495&q=fat+woman+exercising&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpYJXr0Cc5o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKzrwwmm7aM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBNoHbigw5E
By Catherine on 02.26.08 4:01 am
Who are we today, Catherine?
Are you Marie-Antoinette or Marie-Thérèse? We aren’t prepared to eat your cake …
Will the last great Emperor, Byron of Muldoon, Ka-Ching Ka-Ching Dynasty allow himself to be subpoenaed?
Will Tilson, Del Mastro, Wallace & Hiebert ask the emperor if he has had any GREY POOP-ON lately?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.26.08 8:01 am
Yes, Pyotr, your girlfriend is very pretty in ‘her own special way’. She may not like it however, when you spend so much time browsing looking for pics of other ‘full figured gals’. I do hope though, that someone has warned you not to let her get on top!
Have a really special day. Leasa
By Catherine on 02.26.08 3:58 am
As long as your willing to wear a dunce cap when the New Cons fall short. Guess what, Catherine! We get to find out one way or another whether your faith stacks up against my brains and I’ll get to roast you on this one all throughout the year.
This is Flarehty’s 3rd budget. I’m predicting his hot air propaganda you already trump up as fact will fall short by at least 17 billion.
By Zorpheous on 02.26.08 7:46 am
Gee Harry I put it bold, let me highlight the part for you again
By comparison, only 15 out of 282 Conservative supporters surveyed said their choice was motivated by Harper’s being the “best leader,” or other leadership issues such as Dion’s being the worst.
15/282 * 100% = 5.3%
From the Nanos data sheet Harry we see only 4.0% of respondents choose leadership as their key factor.
Try reading Harry and actually looking at all the numbers.
………………………………………………..
Believe me, I did try my best to find those numbers you selected for your math jigging.
So thanks for filling me in on your ‘numbers’ … but can you provide us with the ‘Margin of Error’ for those small sample sizes (+/- 15% maybe) ??
Thanks in advance …..
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 02.26.08 7:52 am
Harry A$$ actually liked my comment[s]
…He repeated them verbatim and mentioned my mother too. Thanks, Harry A$$, for revealing your sensitive side.
For a linear thinker, you are certainly a stupid M/f’r. It’s a transitional condition, Harry A$$, where you migrate from big Effin’ Dummy to squishy mannequin.
………………………………..
Thank you, PP-boy, for responding to my deliberately linear linear thinking postings .. because now I feel I have graduated and can now aspire to your warped level of “curvilinear thinking”.
(Curvilinear Thinking – when one thinks so hard their head go up their arse .. e.g. PP-boy)
However, with due respect, some of your thinking is quite “linear” as well …. particularly when you excrete that sh!tty stream of garbled crap you continually post day-after-day … Just like when your mother laboured to get you out of her swollen belly … “Git that basturd outta me !!!”
Btw .. thanks again for generously recognizing my “sensitive side” … you are a real pip … pip pip pip … !!!
Believe me, I did try my best to find those numbers you selected for your math jigging.
So thanks for filling me in on your ‘numbers’ … but can you provide us with the ‘Margin of Error’ for those small sample sizes (+/- 15% maybe) ??
Thanks in advance …..
By Harry S on 02.26.08 10:35 am
Read the documents I link to Harry.
And let quote Nik Nanos again Harry.
Au contraire, says pollster Nik Nanos, “leadership isn’t even on the radar.”
Are you going to Argue with Nik Harry, cause you certainly don’t have a problem using his other numbers.
As for the numbers Harry, they are straight from the Nik Nanos Data sheet on the break down of the polling numbers that you love quote.
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T283.pdf
Look at the second page, it is right there in black and white, then go to the bottom of the third page for the for the total of CPC voters.
And still Harry you don’t understand Stats at all. If leadership was a key issue the numbers would be larger, but they are not.
As NIK NANOS SAYS
Au contraire, says pollster Nik Nanos, “leadership isn’t even on the radar.”
Stop embarrassing yourself Harry, you are looking like a complete uber retard.
I really do suggest you go to a book store and get a copy of Statistics for Morons
Oh and the MOE for nation leadership be deciding factor would way larger than percentage percentage of people who will vote that way. What does that tell you Harry? It means the leadership issue that you Harper on about day after day isn’t even statistically meaningful.
Harry hoist by his own petard, Harry provides the final proof that his entire argument about Leadership being a issue in an election is destroyed because the percentages are smaller then the MOE.
Gee, Harry, do you ever wonder, why I never mentioned the MOE for those stats, until you stupidly brought them up, LOL, BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do you want some more Harry? Come on,… I can do this all day for everyones entertainment here.
Believe me, I did try my best to find those numbers you selected for your math jigging.
Straight from Nik Nanos numbers Harry, right from the source you love to quote very selectively, BAHAHAhahahahahaha,… Or are you going to start claim Nik is full of sh*t now.
Damn, this is like shoot fish on a damp sponge.
Oh and Harry, the actually MOE for 15/282 is actually +/-5.8% not +/-15%
The MOE is based on the sample size which is 282 not the statistical subset. All the subsets have the MOE of the sample size.
Taking the entire national voting preference across all parties and regions the sample size was 841 (all decide voters out of the 1001 sampled, and remember Harry, this Nik’s Analysis not mine) That sample size has a MOE +/-3.4% and from that sample we have 34 decided voters, which is 4.0%
I was being generous and give Harper the CPC support numbers
But lets use the higher confidence numbers now.
Given that 22% of voters are undecided on the leadership issue
And 4.0% of decider voters say Leadership is a deciding issue
And the CPC is getting 34% nationally
0.04*0.22*0.34 = 0.00299
Or less than 0.3%
With a margin of error of over 3%, what you are harpering on about is completely and statistically meaningless.
But hey Harry, don’t take my word on it, we have Nik Nanos saying the exact same thing.
Au contraire, says pollster Nik Nanos, “leadership isn’t even on the radar.”
You believe in Nik don’t you Harry? Or is he a Liberal stooge now too?
Sorry Zorph … but I think it is you who has made a disasterous error when you attempted to apply survey pages 2 and 3 containing raw data not related to page 1 poll results from Nanos at:
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-W08-T283.pdf
You have ignored the extremely small sample sizes from the survey and you refused to provide the MoE for those numbers you used because you knew it was inappropriate. The survey is only first choice vote count, and even Nanos does not use these numbers for anything more than illustration and speculation.
However what is interesting from the raw data is this amusing contradiction:
Question: Why is ______ your first choice? (First ranked vote preference only) (Note: Does not include undecided/leaning voters)
Tradition/always voted for them — Liberal 54 .. Conservative 17 (vote count)
Good policies/platform — Liberal 55 .. Conservative 76 (vote count)
………….
So what we have here is a survey in which the respondents mostly voted for Liberals (54 to 17) … but yet 76 to 55 thought the Conservatives had a good policies/platform … so it seem like a lot of Liberal polled like what the Conservatives were doing…!!!
Jeez Zorph … you are now really twisting in the wind of your own farts .. LOL
Stop moving the goal posts here Harry.
We were specifically talking about Leadership issue.
And what you just pointed out even further drives home the issue that voters will be looking at the
1) Party policies
2) Local Party Candidates
3) Pass Performance
4) Best Choice.
but yet 76 to 55 thought the Conservatives had a good policies/platform … so it seem like a lot of Liberal polled like what the Conservatives were doing…!!!
LoL, read the figures again brainwave.
55 people who reported their intention to vote Liberal gave their number one reason to vote as the Liberals having good policies.
76 of those who reported their intention to vote CPC gave their number one reason to vote as the CPC having good policies.
That doesn’t translate into “so it seem like a lot of Liberal polled like what the Conservatives were doing…!!!” You retard. Christ do you even know how to read these stats?
You failed again Harry
So just admit you were wrong on the Leadership issue Harry and we can move on, because you 100% dead wrong!!!! And your second attempt at moving the goal posts will equal wrong, again.
Seriously Harry, get the Statistic for Morons book before it is to late.
Haaaloooo PYOTR .. !!!!
Watching you, you good-forr-nothing RRussian, as you fight with Harry S, and Harry has whipped your srraka red rreally rreally good.
Btw … your name ‘PYOTR’ is a nice RRussian name .. but your surname puzzles me.
What is ‘PETROBITCH’?? .. Is it your father’s name ‘PETRO’ plus your mother’s name ‘BITCH’ .. making it ‘PETROBITCH’ ..??!!
Or are you just calling the petroleum industry a bitch ??!!
So watch out what you say about that Harry S .. because he has bitten your sorry arse rreally rreally good.
Dozvidanya …
This is Flarehty’s 3rd budget. I’m predicting his hot air propaganda you already trump up as fact will fall short by at least 17 billion.
By brain on 02.26.08 10:24 am
I guess not, eh fool.
PP-boy seems to have vanished from our fine forum … and the only thing I can linearly think that is causing his untimely absence is … he’s watching Rick Mercers new soul-rap video … “We’re adaptable!!” .. ROTFLMAO … !!!!
Hey PYOTR .. !!!!
Where is our erudite, defender of the Liberal Good .. PP-boy, today ??? He has posted only one feeble message which was devoid of his usual zest, zilliness, and littered with html tags ..!!!
Our fine forum desperately needs his enlightenment particularly when his beloved Liberal party is in such dire straits .. and Dion is keeping his public appearances to a minimum (presumably putting out caucus fires and blunting knives).
Perhaps petulant PP-boy is studiously studying the Dion-supported Harper Budget, hoping to find a fault or discover a deficiency that will damn the Conservatives for their pyrrhic victory.
Perhaps he is experiencing a metamorphosis .. a transitional condition, migrating from big Effin’ Dummy to squishy mannequin.
Perhaps he is viewing Rick Mercers soul-rap video highlighting Dion and the Liberal party … entitled “We’re adaptable” … and contemplating political hara kiri …!!!
Come back PYOTR … Come Back .. I want to kick you around a bit more … LOL !!!!
Have I killed PYOTR PETROBITCH ?
SOB SOB SOB S.O.B.