Maybe I have a little more political experience than some of my colleagues. Perhaps it’s just because I know Stephen Harper better, and have sat in his caucus, listening to the tactics and the scheming and the contempt for non-believers.
Whatever has caused me to have caution, I have it in spades. I assume everything PMSH does is a trap, and that – as his mentor Tom Flanagan has stated – the ultimate political goal is not the defeat of his enemies, but their eradication.
Conversely, I have sat and listened for hours as my caucus colleagues twisted and agonized over how to deal with the Afghan mission. They strained to do the honourable and noble thing, to find the public interest, seek compromise and in the end put enough water in the wine to find that common ground. Leading the path to statesmanship was Stephane Dion.
Dion has gambled a lot on this. His firm position of ending the combat role in February of 2009 has turned into support for a mission that now stretches to Christmas, 2011. He accepted this in return for the arcane language of a Parliamentary motion which means a great deal more than the order paper it’s written on. He did that because, as he said, the costs of leaving Afghanistan are now higher than those of staying. Chief among them: the country’s honour.
So I carried my skepticism into the House of Commons today as the Afghan debate started. On a Monday morning the place is usually sparsely populated, but today MP ranks were swollen. Defence minister Peter MacKay started the debate, and seated behind him were about 30 Conservatives, including two other cabinet ministers.
Opposite were almost 40 Liberals, including Stephane Dion, and beside him, Michael Ignatieff. MacKay spoke for more than 40 minutes, during which there was a respectful silence, no heckling, no comments. I watched Dion’s face as he listened to the minister. It was intent, focused. Before him was a small lectern with the pages of his speech piled atop.
MacKay finished and took three questions. The Speaker stood, intoned ‘Resuming debate,’ and called upon Dion. It was a critical moment. The Liberal leader was about to laud a Canadian path forward, not a partisan one. He was on the verge of yielding one of the central planks which had identified ideological difference between himself and Mr.Harper. He was climbing down from the high ground he had occupied since becoming his party’s head, and doing so because this was not about politics. It was about respect. For one’s country. For those who fight in its name. For their families. For the honourable members opposite.
I watched him stand, then looked across the aisle. Two-thirds of the Conservative members had departed, now that the television camera was no longer pointing at their desks. Three minutes later, minister Jim Prentice – the one who last Sunday tried to eviscerate Dion as a deficit lover – took off. Within five minutes there was just one minister – Peter MacKay – and six other MPs. Two minutes later, without even glancing at Stephane Dion, MacKay left the chamber.
For the next half hour, Dion gave his reasoned, articulate and scholarly response to the complicated Afghan motion which was up for debate. While he did so, he glanced up repeatedly into the TV camera mounted above the gold curtains opposite, and into the cavernous rows of empty seats below.
Honour seemed in short supply at that moment, along with respect, compromise and the presence of statesmen. It was as if the Conservative leadership knew they’d enticed this principled man into their ethical web.
He may have struggled in surprise, but it was not worth their watching.
127 comments ↓
“visceral hatred for non-believers”
“his minions lie and distort”
I can`t get into the topic so I hope you don`t mind if this is a little off topic
The new national debt.
Out with the old, `cash is good`.
In with the new `fill in blank`.
The over priced, over mortgaged Vancouver BC housing market gets a reprieve with the hottest ticket in town, the 40 year mortgage. The extra interest only doubles from 25 to 40 years but what the hey, it`s only spec anyway. There is a lot of talk about a 50 year, just like the national debt, now the new national debt and let the kids pay the house off. Did I mention 0 down to service the under saved? One agent reports 90% of sales are 0 down over 40 years. It`s being called, lol, mortgage innovation, I call it financial suicide.
First a $2B bailout of the BC bank bailout and $440M for BC consumers, now more desperation in keeping the housing market afloat than greed in the sub-prime fiasco. BC Green budget, would that be the green slime floating on the swamp the housing market is built on?
What swamp? Well I`m glad you asked. Under saved Cdns owe $1.25 for every $1.00 of equity. Cdn credit card debt and personal loans are only a few billion short of the advertised national debt, and gaining steam. The ratio of income over home owners monthly payment in Vancouver is already more than twice the recommended risk level. Few places in Canada are even close, sub-prime anyone? The cost of living numbers point to a 10% increase over the next 12 months.
Manufacturing is still lacking investment, forestry is down, raw resource demand is questionable while infrastructure has at least $60B worths of cracks and aging.
The next generation will be outnumbered by seniors while health care costs quadruple, global warming and those associated costs and this is what we`re leaving them, call Constable Big..
Every day is a partisan bashing day while our country accelerates down the 40 year slide, nice work people.
I have little time left on my internet connection and I`m saddened in feeling my efforts are for nought.
Fill in the blank yourself.
What the H do Dion and you expect Garth? You guys set the example LONG before the CONaholes. You guys have been sitting, abstaining or walking out yourselves!
I’m votin’ Green cause I’m disgusted with both the Liberals and Conservatives.
You know we got majorly screwed over the income trust thing but even the Liberal position on that can’t convince me to vote for you guys.
Maybe that is the sentiment you should send to your buddies.
You’re losing the support you had!
So the CPC could not take this uber important issue of theirs and take the time to listen to Opposition Party.
Sigh, seems the issue is only important while the camera give them free press time.
Much like the Chalk River Manufactured Crisis,…
This is Canadian Politics under Harper? Hardly impressive.
Dear Garth,
I was extremely proud to be a Canadian after listening to Stephane Dion speak about the compromise Afghanistan motion that was “neither a Conservative nor a Liberal, but a CANADIAN” motion.
I hope for the sake of the country, our military personnel and their families that the Conservatives have sincere answers to the excellent and detailed questions about the Canadian motion that Stephane Dion asked of them.
Sincerely,
MB
Thank our veterans, troops and their families…
Take 45 seconds to sign the petition ( http://www.petitiononline.com/mem0rial/petition.html ) as a non-partisan DEMONSTRATION of YOUR THANKS.
And get your friends to SHOW THEIR THANKS too!
This move says nothing about Mr. Dion, and everything about the Conservatives.
They are crass and without even a basic level of couth or decency. They certainly wouldn’t be invited to my mother’s dinner table. Wonder if their own mothers are proud of them.
How depressing it must be to have to give an impassioned speech to mostly empty seats! I have witnessed this many times on CPAC.
As a retired teacher, I can appreciate that a little bit, as excessive student absenteeism used to drive me crazy.
It seems to me that there needs to be more accountability of MP’s. I know cabinet ministers are busy and can’t always be in the house. I know MP’s have to deal with their constituents, but haven’t you all just been off for awhile?
Just a question. Maybe from my school days I ask this–but is attendance taken? Does anyone keep track of who is in the House?
Maybe MP’s should be required to be in the House at least a set percentage of time.
I’m…I’m ….speechless….
This certainly was no debate…
Is that what really happened Garth!?
They are a thoroughly shameful, despicable lot Garth. But you are all quickly running out of options. The cons skillfully made the Afghanistan problem disappear. Next is budget and another theme, but not if your sure we’re going to take an economic nosedive. I mean a vote for the budget and a recession happens? Not much to gain there. The cons walked out on Dion today, why not walk out during the budget vote. Because we know a decision to go or not to go, is not about whether Canadians want an election, never was. Let them have their mandate, things are just getting interesting.
You must admit that Defence Minister Peter MacKay’s speech was inspiring and heartfelt too. It almost brought me to tears, listening to his encounter with that poor Afghan girl who had so little and was so thankful for the small gift she had received from Canadians.
For Dion or Layton to suggest that Canadian troops stop fighting the Taliban or to be so obsessed with ‘rotation’ to save our soldiers but sacrifice all those Afghan mothers and daughters to the Taliban would be unconscionable.
Liberals and NDP are always squealing about sending troops to Darfur to fight in a civil war to ’save the women’ .. but oblivious to the needs of the Afghan people and that makes me feel nauseous.
Voting for the Afghanistan Motion is a priority for Canada’s politicians .. and for them to vote against it is despicable if not pro-Taliban.
If Dion wants to make Afghanistan an election issue, the Liberals will have to vote non-confidence in the upcoming Budget. That too would be despicable, if not stabbing our troops in the back for crass political gain.
I think MacKay’s speech in the debate was brilliant, and everybody in Central Nova should get a copy of that speech and they will find a new pride in their great MP Peter MacKay.
What you are effectively saying, Garth, is that Monsieur Dion did not stick by his guns in insisting that the combat role end by 2009, and that he allowed PMSH to outmaneuvre him.
Yet Monsieur Dion himself, at one point, congratulated the PM for coming over to the Liberal position on Afghanistan.
Which is it? Did PMSH bully Dion, or did Dion convince PMSH to come around to his position?
Whatever it is, you need to stand up and fight like a man, and stop playing the victim card. You are giving PMSH more credit for influencing Dion than he deserves.
Nobody can make you do anything. You need to make your own decisions, and stick with those decisions, but not continue to whine and complain after a decision has been made.
Once a decision is made, stay the course. We must move one. One cannot move forward by continually looking at the rear view mirrow and second guessing every decision once it is made.
At least Mr. Layston makes a decision and sticks with it. This Afghan decision was a compromise where neither side got their way entirely, and both sides had to put a little bit of water itno their wine.
Let’s accept that, and move on.
Garth,
Whatever has caused me to have caution, I have it in spades. I assume everything PMSH does is a trap, and that – as his mentor Tom Flanagan has stated – the ultimate political goal is not the defeat of his enemies, but their eradication.
Experience does that to each of us! We KNOW, before the fact the course our opponent will take. Should we dream of another reality we would be grossly disappointed.
As to the ‘government’s’ attendance, and leaving. I am not in the least surprised. They are, after all is said and done, after power, not resolution.
Well stated Garth.
More on Kosovo:
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts02252008.html
And more on Kosovo:
http://www.counterpunch.org/scahill02232008.html
These neocons keep showing us why we should vote them out of office. Are they even human? They sure aren’t statesman. They are just like the “Stepford Wives” doing everything their husband “Stevie” tells them even though he is an arrogant egomaniac. Have these neocons no conscience, no sense of fair play? Are they that power hungry? Do they have that much disdain for the House of Commons and protocol? Why would we want them directing how our country goes. I see Stevie more and more like Bush every day. That is not a positive. In fact it is far from it.
The problem is that the general public doesn’t know all this stuff. They don’t see question period as most everyone is working. How many know that Stevie had all the picture of past prime ministers replaced with picture of him. That alone should tell people who he is. Don’t listen to his words (which are lies) pay attention to his behavior. What is going on at Stevie’s direction is absolutely insane. Of course I also think Bush was insane. Didn’t he say God told him to invade Iraq?
I hope you are full of gratitude Garth that Stevie kicked you out. Thank heavens you are free of this man.
For those that like their Wheaties, chow down.
http://tinyurl.com/2k4xdx
. . . the contempt for non-believers.
Garth’s column shows what CRAP is really made of — hatred for anyone who holds a differing viewpoint; other than that, not much, if anything else.
CRAP has become an obscene reflection of itself. Where is the DEET when I need it?!
. . . the ultimate political goal is not the defeat of his enemies, but their eradication.
Napoleon and Hitler had one thing in common — both invaded Russia at the onset of winter, and both endured major losses.
All Dion need do is wait a short while, until harper makes a major blunder somewhere, and he will make one.
By then, the Cdn. economy will have slowed to a trickle, laid-off workers and others will have grown tired of false and broken promises and will be more than ready to kick CRAP out.
Get IT investors involved as well — might as well have a clean sweep.
By got rope? on 02.25.08 10:12 pm
Excellent posting, and yet again it will almost certainly fall on deaf ears.
One can talk and talk until he’s blue in the face, but if others choose not to listen, that is THEIR freedom of choice; let them sink under their own debt loads.
When our children leave shortly, we’re selling, then renting an apartment.
You are aware that it is unparliamentary for a member of the House to refer to the attendance record of other Member’s, are you not?
For the self appointed champion of democracy, I would think you would raise your standards a little higher.
Never mind. Canadians watched, listened and they know.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
re: Afghanistan debate and some.
Thankyou for informing us all about more of the stuff the Harper-gang Neo-cons are doing in the shadows, off camera. The sooner an election the better! These are not reasoned people.
I watched more of the Afghan debate Mon evening. At around 8:30pm.
What is wrong with that Peter Mackay?
(I won’t write what I first thought about him after what I saw/heard.)
He ask Alexa McDonough a question,
She had the floor and was trying to talk. The speaker was distacted with someone by his chair. You could hear
Peter Mackay yelling at Miss McDonough. She needed to site down to get the speeakers attention so he could get
Mackay to be quiet. Is he following his leaders example of bully behaveyour?
It seems that why.
He must have never been tought that communication is a complicated thing,
you need to speak, then lisen, undersatnd what was said, and then have the intellagence to comprehend and understand what was said to you. I don’t think he is at that level, but he is good at repeating what he is told to say.
Have all the Harper-gang been drinking the same cool-aid? Has the cool-aid been made with fluoridated water? It will lower your IQ if you drink it under the age of 6 mounth! They sure are acting that age.
For more on fluoride see
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
If Canada’s presents in Afghanastan can help the people in that worntorn country toward a better future and peace that would be a good thing. More rebuilding and less killing might help.
Do the local people veiw us as invaders from the west?
I hope that all the people and the women in the world will be able to live
a better live.
My morals and ethics thought the Talaban were doing terable things to the people and the women there.
Based on what we are told in the mass media. I think most would agree.
But not all people have the same values as us. I hope the majority we are trying to help, really want it.
It would not be right if they didn’t and we were imposing change through the barrel of a gun? Some times force is needed to stop the outlaws.
I hope the deaths of any people by our army is not just making it worse???
Working toward peace and stablity so people can learn by example is always a good goal when possible.
I’m not sure what example Harper’s gang is setting by walking out of the debate.
I don’t think they are reasoned persons,
it sure makes you wonder!
They are good at reading off the talking pionts they are given to read.
I for one have my dowts about who caused 9/11 and why.
Was it an inside job to justify brut force,wars?
Are a critical-thinker?
Are you informed?
What kind of world do you and your childen wish to live in?
You should see the shows/info.:
Why We Fight – A Film By Eugene Jarecki
2005. Need to see the start (few mins),
Presidents Eisahower’s farewell address to the nation. January 17, 1961
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html
Want to know what a Neo-con is and how they work, (They lie!)
Neo-CONNED! by Congressman Ron Paul – Part 1 of 11 (Juy 10, 2003).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aewpvcxAwTk
Loose Change 2nd Edition Recut
1 hr 29 min – 2006-08-16
(examining 9/11)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501
The Lying US Government 7min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAoh6pKFBXw&feature=related
Benazir Bhutto: “Bin Laden was Murdered” 11min
(why and who killed her? Because she talked? Remember this next time you are told Bin Laden is still hidding in some cave)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
Your Mind is Controlled 5min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PE7VHDLnYw&NR=1
Mind Control Cults 13min.
(Does this remind you of Bush/Harper
and the other Sociopathes with armys and WMD! What kind of mad world do we live in?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
America: Freedom to Fascism – Director’s Authorized Version
by Aaron Russo
1 hr 51 min – 2007-05-05
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Interview with director.
37 min – 2006-06-08
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198
Paths Towards Fascism. 46 min.
Talk by Naomi Wolf author of “The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot” given October 11, 2007
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18570.htm
Is the western world in the middle east for the oil? You have heard of
peak-oil! We’ll be out soon.
The world use 1 cubic mile of oil last year!!!
You should see the movie, can rent,
A Crude Awakening / The Oil Crash (2006)
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/
(Just something to think about)
INGSOC – Goldstein’s Book Part 1 George Orwell’s ‘1984′ 5min.
(Have the Neo-Cons, including the Bush family and Harper been using the Orwell book as a guide?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=m_JJ2MVHDfY
Robert Newmans History of Oil
45 min – 2006-04-21
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159
Site for news you don’t always hear about. Should check often.
http://reddit.com/new
Just my two cents and some,
For anyone that has mist the links before.
Harper needs to go soon!!!
His total ignorance of Global climate change and his elsafar(sp) attitude and disregard for science mean not only his own kids will see the worst effect, but so will you and your family!
His so-called clean air plan, only start when the oil has run out in about 2050 at projected rate of use!
Then what
Climate change is a one why trip at some point soon.
There is nothing good about climate change!!!
Climate change info. video series.
See ‘How it all ends’ first.
http://wonderingmind42.com/
The Most IMPORTANT Video You’ll Ever See (part 3 of
(should see all 8 part, 1 to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY
Don’t forget about the SPP deal Harper signed. Remember the undercover cops that tryed to start the riet at the signing! Why do we want to harmanize our standard with the USA and the corporate aganda. The corporation job is to maximize profit, not look out for everyones long term common good.
Mr Dions plan for Afghanistan sound reasonable. To bad harper and his gang wheren’t there to lisen.
I don’t hear the harper-gang answering the question after Mr Dion spock!
Your insight into the harper-gang leving
explans why the NDP and Block were asking Mr Dion questions after he spock, as if he was the Government.
He looked good! Like a real leader!
(I missed the 6pm news. Were the masses told what really happened? Or are the Corporate media not there to tell use what is really going on? How’s best interest are they realy looking out for?
Do they care or have kids themselfs?
Looking forward to seeing the Liberal election plateform, as well as the other people running for office when the Harper government falls!
Deffinatly voting ABC!
Link correction.
INGSOC – Goldstein’s Book Part 1 George Orwell’s ‘1984′.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_JJ2MVHDfY
FDIC Bracing for Bank Failures
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/02/fdic-bracing-for-bank-failures.html
Remember the story of Al-Qaeda using a woman with down syndrome for a suicide bomb last month? Turns out the story is false.
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/2008/02/25/down-syndrome-al-qaeda-bomber-story-false/
Well Garth, I listened to your leader, Stephane Dion, speak. And for the first 2 minutes, I though, “good, his speech won’t be partisan”. However, it became very apparent, that he used his time to be very partisan and I wouldn’t have walked out as well.
His speech wasn’t not statesman like at all.
People should read what he said in the Hansard…
http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/chamber.asp?Language=E
Short and sweet.
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED-CRUCIFY THE BUMS / time to get a leader and a party with some large testes
Further to my comment about the rudeness of the Conservatives: Since I will be at work today and unable to respond to those who will say “The Liberals walked out on the crime bill, they are equally rude”, these are two completely different actions.
As has been pointed out ad nauseum, the Liberals walked out because the motion being presented was illegitimate, trying to give the House authority it does not have over the Senate.
The Conservatives left while an important member of government was replying to them about an issue they claim to be trying to find concensus on.
Their ongoing psychological games of trying to make Dion look unworthy of their attention are pathetic, and may just blow up in their face as did the ads of JC’s facial features.
I too am filled with disrespect and discuss for the actions of our government. This has to stop, if Canada is doomed to become ruled by a self appointed King, then take it to the voters and dam the negative adds couched in their underhanded fund raisers and take it to voters now. Stand up for God’s sake!
Very few if any posters hear Support the Troops any way nor does the opposition….or they would be demanding the ETA of 1,000 plus battle ready troops on the field in Kandahar NOW! complete will full equipment. Wearing Red on Fir-days, Bumper Stickers and Dog and Pony Shows on HNIC does not put boots on the ground in Afghanistan. If the CPC wants to stand and turn their backs and walk away from their own debate…then just maybe Canadians will turn and walk away from them…..if not like John McCain we are there for 100 years!
This better be going somewhere. Harper’s crew is going to use that motion to wipe their own butts in pubic and that’s just for starters.
Some debate. The cons will not even listen to the opposition.
Defence minister Peter MacKay started the debate, and seated behind him were about 30 Conservatives, including two other cabinet ministers. – Garth
And even some of them didn’t have the respect to get there on time, including the illustrious MP from Chatham-Kent-Essex caught on camera sneaking in while Mr. McKay spoke.
Better not be late for the vote!
There is no honour in Parliament anymore. Harper et al have no respect for Canadians. He has an agenda, it is fixed (like selling off the AECL to another country) and he cannot be moved.
Bill Moyers interview with Sarah Chayes on Afghanistan says it all.
We cannot serve two masters. Harper’s agenda is that of the U.S.
Canada is no longer the great country it once was. Harper has done much to contribute to our decine.
Dion has become an ‘empty suit’ as far as the Conservatives and NDP are concerned .. and even within the Liberal party too.
Does it really matter what Dion says about any issue, because Canadians don’t really care what he says. Dion is on his way out as Liberal leader and everybody knows it.
Dion’s 25 month honeymoon is now over and his failed leadership is so evident in poll after poll, no matter how some try to jig them to make it look good for the Liberals.
The grand Liberal brand deserves better.
Mr Speaker…. how can you debate when there is no one there opposite. THis is not debating.. it is a waste of time.Yes, it is good to let ones ideas flow but it would be nice if there was someome on the other side to agree or disagree with your points.
“He did that because, as he said, the costs of leaving Afghanistan are now higher than those of staying. Chief among them: the country’s honour.”
posted by Garth Turner on 02.25.08 @ 10:06 pm
That’s a fairly glossy brochure, but sorry no sale here. Our Honour would be just fine and dandy, thank you.
Instead of watering the wine, I prefer the analogy “ya’ll peed in the soup”. The window of opportunity was there, even the polls supported that. Now it appears lost.
Survey says! 87% believe the Liberal party flip-flop on Afghanistan is because they didn’t like the polling numbers and were afraid of an election. For once, I’m running with the majority. It’s going to be quite a sales job to convince enough people otherwise. You can talk about lofty goals, ideals, compromises; whatever. The people see it as the retreat of the Chicken cannon gang, and it’s the people’s perceptions that matter.
What the LPC looks like, is just another gang of unprincipled opportunists and flip flopper’s.
Occasionally, a Politician will speak about battling the perception the public has of our party system and politicians as a whole. Lamenting on the negative sentiments they must deal with.
Speaking of peering through the looking glass Alice. Someone posted an article from one of the major dailies recently that had references to Oz and the Tin Men. I wondered if he reads this blog.
I also wonder Gart, if you are doing yourself justice being aligned with weenies.
I suspect this guy is enjoying it.
http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2006/0120/stephen_harper_prime_minister.jpg
This is what he plans to do with the weenies.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/BBQ.jpg
Mr Turner
I watched the complete speech of Mr Dion. There is no way to know who is in the house. I was waiting to see if he was going to stick to his guns on 2009 and as you mentioned he did not. I assume this was a decision of his own choosing after repeatly telling canadians and the world that we would not be fighting after 2009.
I watched the debate last night and there was no one in the house with the exception of the person speaking. That is why these debates are a total waste of time as no one is listening.
I have stated earlier on this forum the outcome of these differences over the war. The outcome is exactly as I have stated. I will now go on record to tell everyone that we will be there past 2011 if needed as we should be.
Where are all the doves the past few days who supported Mr Dion’s position to get the troops out.
It is a good thing we have a strong, independent CDS in Gen Hillier. He knows what is required to win the hearts and minds in the area of operation. It appears he has found that he had to go over the heads of the politicians to continue to have the support of canadians. However, he should not have to win the hearts and minds of the people here at home that is the job of the politicians.
As stated earlier no “caveats” let the Generals fight the war.
There is an old saying in military circles. “Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the way”. This statement holds true today.
We get the budget today. I stated earlier on a post that a deal was made with Buzz Hargroove as he emerged from the meeting with Harper and made no comments. If he had not got some consessions he would have screamed blue murder. I also stated that there would also be relief for cities. The newsprint are reporting this today.
I guess we will all know by 5pm tonight if we will get the election everyone is clamouring for on this forum. The conservatives have staked out their position. “No amendments”
The Conservatives weren’t watching because they were down the hall talking to the next leader in waiting(and for not to much longer)Bob Rae.Why waste time dealing with someone on their way out,when you can talk to the person who really has the ear of the party.Dion is being isolated and ignored by his own people.Why would anyone else pay attention to him?
By Harry S on 02.25.08 11:28 pm
That’s 25 in the same day. Start time 9:30 a.m., end time 11:28 p.m.
I always see Harper scowling when McKay is up talking…I get the impression Harper is not happy with mckay…I do not like the way the liberals are going….I have always votes liberal but I want them out now…and I shall have to decide who I should vote for but I am extremely disappointed in the liberal leader changing his date on this matter.
“Experience does that to each of us! We KNOW, before the fact the course our opponent will take. Should we dream of another reality we would be grossly disappointed.” –Bill Muskoka.
That may be true, but what we can do is to more proactive in revealing our position, instead of habitually waiting for the other side to state their position before we react to it.
“We KNOW, before the fact the course our opponent will take.” Bill Muskoka.
On the basis of your evidence, we should know ahead of time what the CONS are going to say in the budget today. There have already been strong hints, and I have referred to a few of them in previous posts.
Let’s not wait until the budget comes out and then REACT to it. Let’s be more PROACTIVE. Otherwise, we are always trying to find the way forward by looking backward.
That will only lead us into the ditch.
Do the press cover these debates? If so, why aren’t they talking about it.
Catherine – need no lectures from you on statesmanship. Your leader has been rude from day one. He even brings domestic issues/dirty laundry to the international forum and he fights and tries to put down premiers. I could go on, but you think you know best about everything.
I am embarrassed by Harper when he travels.
Wow…
Garth, I received a flyer from Tony Clement saying that the Stephane Dion “wants to take away” the $1200 child care benefit.
Knowing how our New Government likes to put words in others’ mouths, could you please tell me if Dion has actually said he will rescind the benefit?
I realize Dion voted against this at the time, and I agree with him whioleheartedly. What I’d like to know, though, if this statement is another of the Conservative’s flirtations with the truth, and if so, why my tax dollars are paying for dishonest propaganda from a government that is supposed to represent all Canadians. I don’t see printed on it anywhere that it is put out by the CPC, so I ssume it is government funded.
Of course not. Libs have a far more effective and targeted child care program. After all, why send $1,200 a year to parents who are spending $13,000 a year on care? Why send money to families making $150,000? Why make it taxable? Why not assist in helping the creation of new spaces, private or public? We need answers, not mailbox propoganda. — Garth
Just back from my morning Tim’s and most people are just fed up with the whole mess, sorry but politics and Haprer are now not even worth the time of day to most. So what to do? Best I can say Garth, is to continue to look after yourself in your riding and post your comments. I would like a political divorce myself but I do have the will to ask for one. Thanks for all you have tried to do. Canadians just do not give a dam anymore and there is plenty of blame to go around.
Has Peter McKay lost his mind or does he think we have lost ours.
By the way Garth thanks to Dion&Iggy for helping keep the Industrial Military Complex alive and well.http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/306751
By Harry S on 02.26.08 7:45 am
Gentlemen, start your engines. The fart sniffer is on the track early.
Thanks for keeping us tuned in, Garth! And shame on the Cons’ performance. I read in the local paper that yesterday was the beginning of the debate…..if that’s what you call what happened yesterday in the HoC. Is there going to be more “debating”? When is the vote?
By Harry S on 02.26.08 7:45 am
Dion has become an ‘empty suit’ as far as the Conservatives and NDP are concerned .. and even within the Liberal party too.
Sigh, how did I know this was Harry before I even saw the name at the bottom of the post.
Does it really matter what Dion says about any issue, because Canadians don’t really care what he says.
Too broad of a generalization to take seriously.
Dion is on his way out as Liberal leader and everybody knows it.
Everybody? See above about broad generalizations.
Dion’s 25 month honeymoon is now over and his failed leadership is so evident in poll after poll, no matter how some try to jig them to make it look good for the Liberals.
Always with the polls eh Harry? Even after you got thoroughly owned on the subject of math and statistics yesterday.
The grand Liberal brand deserves better.
Whatever this means (oh yeah, you think Ignatieff was candidate of renewal but have never provided a reason for that belief). I think Dion is great for a new era of Liberalism. His concern for the environment combined with compassion for the underprivileged and a recognition of Canada’s need to pursue a knowledge based economy make me proud that he was chosen leader.
That said however he still has to show us more clearly how he plans on achieving these goals. I still think the next election is the Liberals to lose but that means as soon as the writ is dropped they had better have a solid election strategy – platform, logistics, and theme. I am sure if done well they can show the Liberals as a visionaries while the Conservatives as nothing more than petty micro-managers. Since I cannot predict the future only time will tell how this all plays out.
Part of a study – men you should avoid:
The Guy Who Had the Happiest Childhood This Side of the Beav:
His mother was perfect; his father never smoked or drank or cheated. He hates the way his friends blame their parents for everything, when he and his seven brothers and sisters had love pouring down on them from the moment they woke in the morning until they went to bed.
However refreshing this might sound the first time you hear it, listen carefully for a voice that is trying to convince itself, listen for the creak and crack of a personal mythology in the throes of shattering. When it comes crashing to the ground, it’s going to make a very big noise, and most likely your relationship will come crashing down with it.
…..reminds me of someone in government who had this cushy life….
Mr. Resentment:
Pay close attention to how he handles your accomplishments. If you get a promotion with a raise and he breaks it down to show you how it really only amounts to six dollars a day after taxes, that’s the first strike. When he uses any expression like “your little project,” count that as two.
Just because men are having a hard time adjusting to the idea that women are capable breadwinners doesn’t mean you have to martyr yourself into helping them make the transition. There are men out there who are more than happy to bask in the glow their women cast and to consider your talents a positive reflection on them.
…..reminds me of someone who is full of hatred and resentment….
The Bully:
This is the man who sits you down, grabs your arm, pulls your hair, or pokes your chest. While most of us know better than to let ourselves get socked in the mouth the way Ralph Kramden was always threatening to do to Alice (but even then never following through), there’s a whole universe of more “minor” infractions in the violence department that should disqualify your new beau instantaneously (but all too often does not).
……well, it doesn’t take much guessing who this would be….
The Narcissist:
He doesn’t like your dog? Do we even need to talk about this one? Put it at the top of the category that includes he won’t make eye contact with your kid, he doesn’t want to meet your sister, and he whines the first time you make plans with your girlfriend.
A man threatened by the love you have for the dog you sleep with is going to be threatened by more things than you can name. Dating him is inviting the type of conflict into your life that will make you tired before you even get up in the morning.
….just like someone we know who likes his own picture everywhere….
Hmmmm….who could this guy be? His mother wants him to be called Stephen.
Once again it shows exactly how much respect the Harper regime has for parliament, MPs (excepting for a few inner circle), and thus us, the voting public! My disgust with this lot overfloweth!
Feb 26, 2008 04:30 AM
Linda McQuaig
In a defining moment for Canada, Jean Chrétien resisted U.S. pressure and kept Canada out of Iraq.
Now Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, in another historic moment, has shown that Chrétien’s display of backbone was a one-time Liberal offering.
Dion’s capitulation to the Conservatives and to the pro-war wing of his own party means that Canada will continue to fight America’s war in Afghanistan until 2011 – despite clear public sentiment against the war.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper showed last week how he plans to use this Liberal acquiescence to advance a hawkish agenda that goes well beyond extending the mission in Afghanistan.
A triumphant Harper trumpeted the emerging “bipartisan consensus” on Afghanistan to a gathering of the Conference of Defence Associations, a high-powered military group that would warm the frozen heart of Dick Cheney.
Sadly I will look for a different party that keeps their work. NDP? wWho cares about justice? I cannot stomach the lies and obfuscations. What is the difference between the Liberals and Conservatives? Really?
At least with Jack Layton Canada has a chance.
Linda McQuaig
In a defining moment for Canada, Jean Chrétien resisted U.S. pressure and kept Canada out of Iraq.
Now Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, in another historic moment, has shown that Chrétien’s display of backbone was a one-time Liberal offering.
Dion’s capitulation to the Conservatives and to the pro-war wing of his own party means that Canada will continue to fight America’s war in Afghanistan until 2011 – despite clear public sentiment against the war.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper showed last week how he plans to use this Liberal acquiescence to advance a hawkish agenda that goes well beyond extending the mission in Afghanistan.
A triumphant Harper trumpeted the emerging “bipartisan consensus” on Afghanistan to a gathering of the Conference of Defence Associations, a high-powered military group that would warm the frozen heart of Dick Cheney.
The military men and defence contractors attending the event were delighted as Harper outlined plans to divert ever-larger sums of Canadian taxpayer dollars toward military spending, and to further Canada’s transformation from peacekeeper into big-stick-carrying war maker.
Ah Ha!!! The plot thickens.I assume(I know I shouldn,t)that if the last 3 points at the end of this story aren,t met.Then the opposition will bring it to the people to decide about Canada’s role in Afghanistan.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/306883
Oh Canada!
The general goes too far
So, the Star’s editorial department doesn’t like Hillier speaking up when the politcos are dumbfounded? Well, isn’t that too friggin’ bad!
Maybe it’s to protect some of their friends in Canada’s military-industrial complex?
Because with total numbnuts like the cops and legal beagles involved in this farce and disgrace to common sense and decency Premier’s fan accused of death threats
We can see why we need to review what reality is and get a grip on what free speech truly is.
We also need to Change politics by taking a stand
You all enjoy the games today.
Of course not. Libs have a far more effective and targeted child care program. After all, why send $1,200 a year to parents who are spending $13,000 a year on care? Why send money to families making $150,000? Why make it taxable? Why not assist in helping the creation of new spaces, private or public? We need answers, not mailbox propoganda. — Garth
Come on, Garth.
As a former welfare worker I can tell you that people on assistance are the ones that get the spots available. The middle class gets zippo. I remember poeple that were on social assistance that were volunteering or were working a few hours were getting day care spotsright away.
At least with this the middle class is getting something back. Besides this 100 dollars a month per
child is about an increment of 10% of what a single parent is getting for welfare per month. Come on Garth I thought Dion wanted to help the poor.
By Ted Browne on 02.26.08 9:47 am
http://www.eleconomista.es/mundo/noticias/376288/02/08/France-said-to-send-troops-to-Afghan-combat-zone.html
Eastern Afghanistan tribal area — Not Kandahar province.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/02/26/france-troops.html
Robin Adams from Ottawa, Canada writes: I’m just wondering… am I the only poster who thinks that Dion has just committed political suicide? This vote has destroyed his credibility as being an alternative to the cons, alienated a large segment of his own party and handed the NDP and Bloc a beautiful campaign issue…. over seats he desperately needs. I mean really, he could have used the issue to separate himself from previous Liberal policy, pretended that he had some ethical principles and given voters what he wants. I think he could have possibly squeeked by with a majority or morre likely gotten a minority government out of it.
He strikes me as a political neophyte. Oh well, poor libs… he won’t be around long…
Do you guys think he’s done?
A matter of respect – how sad a display. I watched some of Peter MacKay’s speech and noted the few numbers of members sitting behind him. Everyone talks about supporting our troops and yet when the topic to be ‘debated’ is one of such prime importance – everyone slithered away. As some of you readers may know, I have waged nearly a two year campaign with this government to honour the CF members who have served in Afghanistan as the MSGU – highly trained, close protection military police officers who protect the Canadian Embassy in Kabul, the Ambassador (whenever he goes), Embassy staff (wherever they go), and Canadian politicians who travel to Afghanistan. There are also other tasks that remain unspoken – quite understandable. These trained CF members have served for 1 year terms since 2003 – and until late June 2007, they did not qualify to receive a service medal for serving in a war zone for one full year, nor did they receive tax-free income as do all other Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan – regardless of rank, duty or location. The ISAF members who serve in Kabul, mere metres away from the Embassy compound qualify – and always have qualified – to receive these two fundamental rights – a service medal and tax-free income while in a war zone. The families and friends of these MSGU members have fought for years to correct this mistake. DND was only able to correct the medal issue – decided by a panel to review the matter – and it was finally decided in December 2007 that each and every MSGU member who served Canada for their time in Afghanistan, would qualify for a medal – but DND does not have the authority to do other than propose to repay these soldiers all of the tax-free benefit received by every other soldier. Since the latest rotation in June 2007, each and every MSGU member now fulfilling that mandate DOES receive both a service medal AND tax-free income – but NOT all of the others who have done the very same job since 2003 – no grandfathering clause. I have contacted Peter MacKay repeatedly and asked him and the federal cabinet to just ‘do the right thing’ and give these members (less than 75 of them in total) an equal tax break as a well-deserved and, more importantly, equal recognition for their year long service to Canada under very difficult circumstances. All that is needed is a stroke of the pen by the federal cabinet – and it is done. Apparently this is also falling on deaf eyes. MY request has so far, been ignored. So these soldiers who guarded the lives of the Governor-General, PMSH, former Min. O’Connor, Min. Verner and all of the other politicians who went to Afghanistan for whatever reasons – still don’t qualify for a retro-active tax break. And the Prime Minister and his government tell us that they ‘care about our soldiers’. What a continued slap in the face. As I indicated in my last letter to Min. MacKay – I have picketed before and I will do it again – this issue will NOT be swept under the carpet. They will not turn their back on me and walk away – I will fight this issue to the very end.
In my 10:09 post – should read ‘deaf ears’. Sorry for the typo.
As a nova Scotian, I’m perpetually disgusted by MacKay. The only thing in Nova Scotia that I would rank on par with my sentiments towards him; would be the Sydney tar ponds. he lies, cheats and lies some more, Then he grand stands, plays hard done by and prances around in celebration of his ’statesmanship’… he can’t even stand up for his own riding let alone province.
He’s an embarrassment to our province, and to Canada.
WOW … our fine forum generously provided to us by our MP Garth is fully flooded with anti-US, pro-Taliban, neoDeviate Dippers spewing their hatred over Dion’s stance on Afghanistan.
If they all abandoned garth.ca and slithered back to their babble.ca forum there might only be 6 or less legitimate posters here.
Dion has caved on his previous Afghanistan position … and if he and his Abstainerals give a pass to the Budget … well that will be Dion’s last stand before he is evicted.
I was pondering war momentarily. Some images came to mind, that I won’t share. Some recollections, that I won’t share either. I drifted into putting Afghanistan into context with war. It’s not really war you know. Not really. Not unless it’s you who are amidst the crossfire’s and the horror.
To call this Afghan situation a war, is incorrect in the absolute sense from a Canadian perspective. It has nothing to do with Korea or the great struggles of WW 1 and 2. Except death, destruction and anarchy of course.
The people have spoken loudly and clearly. They have once again been ignored by politico’s. Tin pot dictators and arm chair warriors does not a war make.
Generally speaking, we have a more aware public in modern times and they are not buying the old game. Yet, the old game continues. The Feudal lords continue to dictate.
All the arguments and facts supporting withdrawing Canadian Troops have been made, and made well, but the result is as it has always been.
Those who participate in the continuance of this travesty will not personally engage in the conflict. Their family members and particularly their Children will not bear arms. They WILL provide any and all means to prevent this from happening. It will not be the politicians, their children, the arm chair warriors or the ex KP/motor pool participants who will bleed, who will die. Nay, it will be the Son’s and Daughters of ordinary Canadians, as always.
I have no respect for person’s or parties who, in spite of the greater weight of evidence and the summation of logic and independent thought, disregard these things and the will of the people based on arrogance, ignorance and detachment.
Government of The People, By the People, For the People. Not Government of the arrogant, by the ignorant, for the detached.
Oh yes, and how could McKay find the face to stand for 40 minutes preaching about blood, when he comes from lineage that doesn’t even want to stand up and face the Mulroney / Shreiber show? There’s a fine example of Courage.
Before posting this, I read the article in the Star posted by; By Ted Browne on 02.26.08 9:47 am. It seems to offer some hope, yet I remain unable to be optimistic.
Mr. Dion wasn’t speaking to those shameless partisans across the floor; he was speaking to Canadians. Unlike members of the current gov., he makes me proud to be a Canadian.
Maybe the conservatives were trying to be more liberal-like by abstaining from the house of commons?
Of course not. Libs have a far more effective and targeted child care program. After all, why send $1,200 a year to parents who are spending $13,000 a year on care? Why send money to families making $150,000? Why make it taxable? Why not assist in helping the creation of new spaces, private or public? We need answers, not mailbox propoganda. — Garth
By maggie on 02.26.08 8:15 am
This is where the spin comes in, especially when people forget why the government is sending them the money.
If the Libs provide a better system for child care than the CPC ideologically based program, which shouldn’t be difficult as this one failed, then off course they may not continue sending the money.
You can’t have both.
The political issue then becomes whether an individual used that money for child care and no longer needs it because of the new program (the new program taketh away but giveth back more), or whether they saw the money as a bonus from the government that they’re loosing.
Of course the CPC will try and make it look like the latter, hence the flyer you recieved. The average Canadian can’t tell how it will affect them until the Libs. unveil their solution.
Our troops in Afghanistan are all soldiers who have volunteered to go into the military, knowing full well what they were going into, and believing in the justice of their cause.
If that is their choice, and what they believe in, why should we armchair quarterbacks who sit here at home judge them, and say that they should not be allowed to fight for a cause that they believe in?
What difference does it make to the ordinary civilian in Canada if we have soldiers who believe that this cause is well worth fighting for? It is their risk, and their lives who are at stake.
They are not judging us if we disagree, so why should we judge those who believe that the cause in Afghanistan is worth fighting for.
We can all have our opinions, but at the end of the day, history will be the final judge of what was true wisdom.
Let’s not get bent all out of shape, for a democracy is a society in which honourable people can honourable disagree without insisting that others conform to our point of view.
On the latest CTV poll, in answer to the question, “Will the Conservatives and Liberals come to a consensus on the Afghan mission?”, the response was,
Yes 77%
No 23%
Let democracy prevail!
Sticky wicket, Garth. By resorting to “honour”, Dion takes the discussion out of the rational realm and into propaganda territory. It doesn’t matter if the war makes sense, or whether our effort is productive or not, we will “support the troops”, won’t “cut and run”, won’t desert the Afghan people or our allies. Hardly the rational calculation that defines a war aim and justifies the human and material cost of prosecuting a war.
No need for Liberals to scratch their heads about the origin of the 1,000 additional troops. We have 2,500 troops in Afghanistan, of which 1,000 form the battle group that is there to engage and destroy the enemy, while the other 1,500 support, administer and reconstruct etc. Obviously one battle group cannot effectively secure Kandahar Province, so we need two. Simple, until we find that two won’t do it either and need three or more, by which time it will be closer to 2011 and we will have done our bit and can get the hell out of there whether someone declares victory or not.
Sir Robert Thompson pointed out the result of the US Vietnam war effort in his 1969 “No Exit from Vietnam”: “Doubling the effort was continually squaring the error.” It’s “error” we should be looking for – why we are there, what we are doing, how it is working out now, and what future result will be likely – vice merely doubling or extending the effort.
Once again the Liberals have shown that they are not yet a force to be reckoned with in national politics. The disdain shown in the House by the CPC proves it.
“Ditto” what Maggie said above.
Greg ON
Thank you – well put.
How can we get reality to resonate?
I forgot to add this link to my comments last night.
It is an explanation as to why the world seems so screwed up. Just a view point you don’t always hear. Maybe just a consperacy thery.
Worth a look I think!
Are you a critical-thinker?
remember:
‘Belief in myth avoids the discomfort of thought.’
ZEITGEIST, The Movie – Official Release – Full Film
1 hr 56 min – 2007-06-26
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
just for fun ‘Monkeys’. 4min.
http://www.fugly.com/videos/5655/monkeys.html
Its shameful that the Cons had to fabricate a chalk river crisis to pave the way for their real agenda, the privatization of AECL. Disturbing lies, quite frankly…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080226.wnuclearparl26/BNStory/National/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp
When the going gets tough, just.. sell it off. Just make sure its to another nation, Canadians shouldn’t be allowed to own nuclear technology. I guess this is Harpers vision of smaller government. If something needs attention, just sell it off.
The New Cons sure won’t stop their Republican friends from buying out MDA after $100’s of millions worth of fed money has been invested into MDA itself.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/16/bc-satelliterdeveloper.html
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2008/01/mda_deal_we_keep_the_flag_they.html
Thats how it is with the New Cons. If you don’t like the message, just shoot the messenger.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2008/01/no_science_in_the_pms_ear.html
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2007/12/scientists_see_but_leaders_bli.html
The average amount spent on personal taxes in 2006 was $13,630. This was slightly up from the year before but 20 per cent is the lowest share ever spent on taxes since 1992.
“We’re making more money and we’re paying a little less tax,” Brad Sniderman of StatsCan explained in an interview from Ottawa. “Tax rates in provinces and on the federal level are having an effect.”
Iran to launch oil and gas exchange on Feb. 27
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8066
Iran’s Oil Bourse Could Topple The Dollar
http://www.rense.com/general80/topple.htm
The Real Reasons Why Iran is the Next Target:
The Emerging Euro-denominated International Oil Marker
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html
Dion’s going to come through this with shining colours as the ‘new government of Canada’ continues to play ‘Parliament Games’ & hang themselves en masse, & the Canadian People will see them doing it.
The new government of Canada is toast, by its own hand.
I admire Dion! He’s not talking the talk, he’s walking the walk. The People of Canada can ’see’ this man’s integrity! He will win & win big, when the time comes.
WOW … our fine forum generously provided to us by our MP Garth is fully flooded with anti-US, pro-Taliban, neoDeviate Dippers spewing their hatred over Dion’s stance on Afghanistan.
If they all abandoned garth.ca and slithered back to their babble.ca forum there might only be 6 or less legitimate posters here.
Dion has caved on his previous Afghanistan position … and if he and his Abstainerals give a pass to the Budget … well that will be Dion’s last stand before he is evicted.
By Harry S on 02.26.08 10:24 am
Poor Harry,… He’s into the blue kool-aid early this morning, pounding back glass after glass of the stuff.
The oor shmuck con’t even tell the truth when it comes to the Afghanistan issue. While it is truth Dion has modified his position to seek a compromise, the same is exactly true for the Harper and CPC when they decide to adopt and incorporate a vast majority of the liberal amendments that were made.
So by Harry’s logic, Harper folded like a cheap suit too. (Harry force to pound back another couple of glass of the blue goo to heighten his tunnel vision)
I guess Harry is still smarting for the beotch slap he took over is silly Statistics screwup.
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/en/about_us/elizabeth_may
The Green Party of Canada works with the Global Green movement, with parties in 70 countries and elected members of parliament in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Together we press the nuclear superpowers to meet their obligations for disarmament, to reduce and eventually eliminate the nuclear threat. We work to shift military budgets to peace-making and peace-keeping
Your continued support for Diddling Dion is beyond comprehension, except to realize you are protecting your own backside from criticism for your jump to the Lieberals. But then, you realized your time was up with the CPC when you were all but ignored at the pre-election rally in Burlington. The writing was on the wall then.
As much as you decry the tactics of PM Harper, are you much better than him with your constant barrage, just short of being libellous, demeaning him and his Ministers.
Re Afghanistan. Why don’t you Libs join Taliban Jack and have our troops out right now. Never mind the hundreds and thousands Afghanis that will be murdered, mutilated, raped, tortured or imprisoned never to be heard of again.
How little you know of history. We survived you might say after all. We survived the Holodomor when 10 million people that were starved to death under Stalin in Ukraine. We survived the 7 million in the Holocaust under Hitler. We survived Rhawanda. WE are surviving the hundreds of thousands in Darfur. The people in China, north Vietnam and Korea are somehow surviving.
The problem is, if we don’t fight these dictators and terrorists, how soon will they invade our shores ? There is already evidence that they are trying.
Further, why blame the US and Bush ? We are there in support of NATO and for no other reason.
This diddling and dawdling continues to put our men and women at further risk. Either support them in their humanitarian purpose and get them out now and let millions more die. What do we care about those people way over there ?
Grinding poverty and the escalating war is driving an increasing number of Afghan families to sell their daughters into forced marriages.
This next statement should be of URGENT importance for Peter McKay.KInda differs from what he said yesterday b4 his abrupt departure.
Mrs Hashemee said, in Kabul at least, there had been greater recognition of women’s rights over the past seven years as well as major civil and political gains since the fall of the Taliban. But it remains a dangerous environment and female MPs, activists and journalists still live under constant threat of death.
This is not the first person to talk about this.
Sarah Chayes says the same thing on Bill Moyers last week.Malalai Joya says the same thing in a recent piece in The Independant.
Who to believe Peter McKay,Harper,Hillier or the people who live there seeing this everyday.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/womens-lives-worse-than-ever-786752.html
Of honour and respect…
That’s an extremely moving picture at the top of Garth’s Blog. Many soldiers will be saying farewell to their families at the end of this month to begin their duty in Afghanistan.
Their spouse and young children will return to their homes to anxiously await their return. They return to married quarters where the attics are insulated with asbestos and the windows are covered with blankets to keep the wind out.
We have spend $7 Billion on Afghanistan. The war is costing us 100 million per month. Can we not provide better housing for our soldiers and their children? Politicians, do not avert your gaze, also look into the eyes of your people.
Just more bad news in godawful winter. More war, more blood, more death, more waste. I’m still wondering where the “honour” comes in.
Nobody mentioned Peter McKay’s words in answer to Dawn Black, that the NDP’s stance is equivalent to sending in “minstrels and fruit-pickers”. He sounded like an arrogant ignoramus. I wonder which twisted gnome in the staff came up with that gem?
Sarah Chayes, who has been trying to run a business in Afghanistan, had this to say about a recent incident in Kandahar.
SARAH CHAYES: …And my folks are getting more and more proud about the job that they’re doing. They’re seeing this as a vessel that can carry them across these troubled waters to some kind of future. But we’re in an atmosphere of war. Three of my guys, I had to move them into town, because they’re at too much risk in their villages.
BILL MOYERS: In their what?
SARAH CHAYES: In their villages. One of them was laid-in-wait for by Taliban last week.
BILL MOYERS: Are they tempted to join the Taliban?
SARAH CHAYES: No. But, I did ask one of them–one of my guys has an orchard. His sharecroppers were killed in one of these drive-by incidents. There was an improvised bomb that hit a Canadian armed vehicle. The scared Canadian soldiers fired. Killed a sharecropper and his 7-year old son. The 12-year old son survived. We started talking about this in the cooperative. And I asked my other guys, “you know, well, if that happened to you, if your brother, for example, got killed in one of these things, what would you do?” One of them said, “I would resign on-the-spot, and I’d pick up my gun and start shooting Canadians.” Then I said, “what if it was the Taliban who killed your brother?” And he said the same thing. So this is another way that I can see this whole thing coming apart. It’s a kind of privatization. You know. You’ve got people now with blood feud against NATO troops because of things like, you know, civilian casualties. These are people who need– it’s blood debt. They need to recoup that debt. And they’re not going to be persuaded out of that.”
Transcript of the show here.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02222008/transcript3.html
Also, video on the Bill Moyer’s Journal site. Air date was February 22nd. The Chayes interview is in the second half of the show.
Then there’s always this:
“Shortly after arrival in Kandahar, members of the Van Doos regiment “étaient un peu frustrés de participer à une mission de reconstruction et auraient préféré combattre à leur arrivée en Afghanistan.” (“were a little frustrated to be taking part in a reconstruction mission and would have preferred to fight upon their arrival in Afghanistan”).
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=49&ItemID=14037#_ednref2
One of the CBC reporters on Parliament Hill, sorry I don’t remember which one, commented on the fact that most of the Conservatives walked out soon after McKay gave his speech. I think the press should have given far more attention to this in the evening news programmes when the majority of Canadians have time to view. I don’t think they serve Canadian interests by not reporting these kind of facts, However I wouldn’t be surprised if the Conservatives planned to start the debate on Monday because they knew that most of the focus would be on the non- budget and such behaviour would slip under the radar.
Harry’s funny. Good to have a Dork Jester on the blog.
Dion’s 25 month honeymoon is now over and his failed leadership is so evident in poll after poll, no matter how some try to jig them to make it look good for the Liberals.
Harry.
****************************************
Always with the polls eh Harry? Even after you got thoroughly owned on the subject of math and statistics yesterday. Markus 9:02 post
****************************
I think we need to straighten this false statment right now. Where does Harry get the 25 month number he keeps mentioning? Try 15 months. Awaiting answer Harry if you don’t mind. NOTE: DECEMBER 2, 2006
Just to set the record straight, read the background below on Mr. Dion.
****
On December 2, 2006, at one of the most exciting Liberal leadership conventions in party history, Stéphane Dion was elected as the 11th leader of the Liberal Party of Canada on the fourth ballot.
Mr. Dion’s three-pillar policy approach, which integrates economic prosperity, social justice and environmental sustainability, garnered him the support of a majority of Liberal delegates, allowing him to emerge from fourth place going into the convention to beat out seven contenders in total.
First elected in a 1996 by-election, Stéphane Dion was re-elected in 1997, 2000, 2004 and 2006 in the riding of Saint-Laurent – Cartierville.
Before entering the race to become Liberal leader, Mr. Dion served as Foreign Affairs Critic in Interim Leader Bill Graham’s shadow cabinet.
In July 2004, under former Prime Minister Paul Martin, Mr. Dion was appointed Environment Minister. In that position, he helped prepare Canada for the challenges of a sustainable economy and played a key role in developing the greenest budget since Confederation.
Among his accomplishments as Environment Minister, Mr. Dion won international agreement to extend the Kyoto protocol beyond 2012 at the follow-up to the Kyoto Conference on Climate Change in Montreal in December 2005. This followed his announcement, in April 2005, of Project Green – an updated climate change plan to honour its Kyoto commitments. In June 2005, Mr. Dion also announced $9.2 million in funding to help protect species at risk and their habitat.
Now Harry & others ( you know who you are), try & stick with the truth for a change instead of making up stuff & maybe, just maybe, we can have civil discussions on this forum. For all its worth, I won’t give Harper a free pass on the Afgan issue either. Demand to know why they are avoiding anwering the questions Dion posed & if they don’t want to give answers, stall the vote until they do tell the truth. My gut feeling his that they do not intend, never intended, on ending the mission in 2012 so they will avoid having a proper debate at all cost.
Like Tricia,I to was surprised that the CBC didn’t report more on the conservatives leaving.I think the reporter’s name was Krista Erickson…no wait,she doesn’t work in Ottawa anymore.If you ask a liberal though,I’m sure they would know EXACTLY who the reporter was.Time to privatise the CBC and stop propping up a liberal mouthpiece.Say anything you want as a private industry,but the socialist B.S.that it spews on my tax dollar makes me puke!
By Andrea Timmons on 02.26.08 11:44 am
Harry’s funny. Good to have a Dork Jester on the blog.
…………………………………
Thank you … I cherish any recognition, and I’m pleased that you are amused with:
Dion Liberals = Abstainerals
Please feel free to use that new label for those Liberal politicians if they again abstain or even walk out, but then they will be called: Absenterals …!!!!
“For the next half hour, Dion gave his reasoned, articulate and scholarly response to the complicated Afghan motion which was up for debate. While he did so, he glanced up repeatedly into the TV camera mounted above the gold curtains opposite, and into the cavernous rows of empty seats below.
Honour seemed in short supply at that moment, along with respect, compromise and the presence of statesmen. It was as if the Conservative leadership knew they’d enticed this principled man into their ethical web.”
posted by Garth Turner on 02.25.08 @ 10:06 pm
Dear Garth,
Yes the Conservatives are playing political games.
If M. Dion were to bring the House down without making a SINCERE attempt at getting a Canadian deal for our troops and the people of Afghanistan like he is doing then M. Dion would be seen as being as politically motivated as the Conservatives are.
M. Dion is concerned about the welfare of our troops and the everyday people of Afghanistan.
Tell M. Dion to keep leading the way on this extremely important non-partisan issue, and let the Conservatives continue to make their grandiose speeches and slink off to play their political games.
Canadians know who is sincere and who is just a hollow, pretty-boy front-man.
Sincerely,
MB
http://www.petitiononline.com/mem0rial/petition.html
This posting is another good example of one of the biggest tactical mistakes you Liberals keep making in your criticism of this government–you expend way too much energy on criticizing the PROCESS. And way too little effort in articulating alternative POLICIES.
Garth, you are taking your nit-picking, whining and indignation to new lows.
Who, but those drinking the darkest red kool-aid cares how many MPs are in their seats opposite, listening to House “debate” ?
So far, the only kind of election campaign you guys can run, which is consitent with what you’ve been saying so far, is something like this:
Day 1: Harper is a bully
Day 2: Harper is a control freak
Day 3: Harper is disrespectful
Day 4: Harper doesn’t play fair
Day 5: You can’t trust Harper with a majority
Days 6 to 36: Repeat days 1 to 5
Good luck with that, Liberals.
Thanks Garth, for showing what the CPC believes constitutes “debate”, and “honour” … only if it permits face-time in front of the camera.
It is a shame that there were no cameras filming this behaviour…I would love to see this on the LPC website as an example of the CPCs “non-partisanship” on something as important as the Afghanistan mission.
Austin
Strictly for your entertainment the Number ONE issue in the US 2008 election.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AH-ufAkCU&feature=related
By smoker on 02.26.08 11:19 am
Read the blog and the past blogs on the subject and try to get a grasp of the big picture.
End game. We, as a country have done more than our share. Time to hand off.
Day 1: Harper is a bully (yes)
Day 2: Harper is a control freak (yes0
Day 3: Harper is disrespectful (yes)
Day 4: Harper doesn’t play fair (yes)
Day 5: You can’t trust Harper with a majority (yes, yes, yes)
Days 6 to 36: Repeat days 1 to 5
Good luck with that, Liberals.
By Calgary Junkie on 02.26.08 12:15 p
Congratulatins Calgary Junkie. You have got it right. The reasons you stated above are exactly why Canadians do not trust Harper. Thanks!
Cheers
FYI:
Renewable Green Energy presentations,
Wed Feb 27, 6:30pm-9pm
Oakville Chapter, Professional Engineers
http://members.peo.on.ca/index.cfm/document/1/ci_id/21233/la_id/1
More info at, http://www.oakville.peo.on.ca
How can we get reality to resonate?
By Rob on 02.26.08 10:55 am
Speak slowly and clearly with clarity. Bit by bit, some of it will stick.
Plus, be sure to put the will of the People squarely in front of Politico’s, reminding them who they supposedly represent and that some of us have long memories.
FYI:
The Impact of Global Warming On Engineering
March 29, 2008
http://www.mississauga.peo.on.ca/
CANDU Generates the Greatest Economic Benefits For Ontario
New economic analysis shows choosing CANDU over a foreign supplier will mean billions of dollars and thousands of jobs for Canada’s economy
Toronto, 2008 February 25 — A new economic analysis confirms CANDU as the best choice for Ontario’s next nuclear power plants and illustrates how Team CANDU’s proposal to build new Advanced CANDU Reactors® – ACR-1000® for Ontario makes the most economic sense.
http://www.aecl.ca/NewsRoom/News/Press-2008/080225.htm
The Ontario Government is about to choose between foreign and Canadian technology for its new nuclear reactors.
Let’s help them make the right choice.
http://www.choosecandu.ca/
Let’s roll
posted by Garth Turner on 02.16.08 @ 9:24 am
That February 16 posting was exactly 10 days ago now.
Now the day of truth has come, the crucial day of the budget.
Will it be “let’s roll,” or “let’s roll over”?
The day to decide has come. There is no more “wait and see” after today. The nation is watching.
Will Monsieur Dion say, “Charge!” or “Hold the horses!”? Which will it be? May it be the right decision for Canada!
Btw … just think of the “S” as standing for “Smart” … LOL
As in “Get Smart”?
By Kevin on 02.25.08 10:47 pm
You see there, Kevin, you are starting to smarten up already!
You obviously didn’t read or ignored my whole comment on the history of dictators. My parents and many like them prefered possible death trying to escape rather than face fate even worse But as I said at the end——-
Either support them in their humanitarian purpose and get them out now and let millions more die. What do we care about those people way over there ?
By smoker on 02.26.08 11:19 am
End game. We, as a country have done more than our share. Time to hand off.
In my opinion the part about Harper laying a trap for the Liberals is correct and Dion walked into it.
What does honor really mean? Dion has just agreed to sacrifice the lives of Canadian troops to protect a government that would execute a person for allegedly supporting gender equality but give three men convicted of raping a boy and a man 10 years in prison. What is honorable about that?
Honor is an lame excuse when someone cannot think of a rational reason to do something.
By smoker on 02.26.08 1:34 pm
If that was intended for me, kindly cut and paste the reference.
Based on your immediate response, I see you did not read the blog entries and certainly didn’t refer back to and read the extensive material provided on previous blogs on this subject. I can’t help to educate you if you refuse to participate in expanding your own knowledge.
You are making comparisons that are not applicable, and lauding your personal sentiments based on events that have no direct relation.
I say again, clearly; we as a country have done more than our share. Time to hand off.
And we wonder why the Canadian Public is cynical. I managed to catch some of the debate and with a sinking feeling, began to sense that the rhetoric of “support our troops” as in the US = patriotism /nationalism. To do otherwise is blasphemous to the spirit of Canada and Canadians. This is propaganda at it’s finest and only inflames emotions that displaces reason in the face of the
events leading up to our role in Afghanistan. In the Lib motion itself it states the events…2002 “drive out the Taliban” (causality 9/11 to facilitate the American agenda)
BUT presently we are there at the “democratically elected government”…yeah right!! Did they have a choice? A US puppet government as usual. SPIN
This is the battlefield we are engaged in and which I do not support.
Truly, how can we speak of honour in this debacle? Is it our honour/pride that will take a fall if we leave? Undoubtedly, yes. And so we will stay the course, lose more soldiers and civilians all the while not understanding the history and the ethnic differences that make our western ideology of democracy ill fitting to their ways.
Substitute the US for Russia in the last go round and the result will be the same. As one historian said at the recent CDA conference…we have watches, but they have time. And they will wait it out.
Do we take anti-American sentiment seriously? If not, we do so at our peril. Name me one nation that has come out of American Imperialistic engagements a better nation? Each covert/overt operation has been “in the American interest”. They do not hide their agenda. All you have to do is listen to Condoleezza Rice discuss “American Realism” at the opening of The World Economic Summit” Davos,08
3 Pillars of shaping their Global Leadership: 1) Promotion of a just economic model of development; 2) promotion of a freer and more democratic world; 3) role of diplomacy in overcoming differences between nations.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-nO9iPoCY
Are we really this naive? Spinning the Afghan mission to one of peacekeeping, diplomacy and humanitarianism would be fine, if we did not already have blood on our hands. This is now at best a mop up operation, with uncertain outcomes.
At what point do we satisfy ourselves that they can self-govern again in a way that suits them? How badly do they want it? How long can we hold back the Taliban, tribal war lords to see who if any will rise above basic instincts of “self” and “corruption” to collectively instill a social order with equality for all? And at what final cost to the Canadian people?
People, we are headed for some tough financial times, not just here but globally. The US Comptroller General, David Walker has had to pound the pavement this year, outside of his offices to get the message to the American public that they are on the verge of bankruptcy.
And that’s without the banking communities mis-deeds and larceny in sub-prime, CDO’s etc, etc. How long can they sustain their industrial/military complex? As usual, the US government keeps their people in LaLa Land. You won’t even hear the candidates discuss this outside of Ron Paul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxoP_9W6FC8 : 60 Minutes with David Walker.
How do we ensure we will be fiscally healthy, mutually sustaining and moving together for the best in our nation in the coming months and years? Globalization benefits corporations, exploits labour, Climate change is real and Oil Depletion is on the horizon. It’s time to power-down and do what’s best for all Canadians without meddling in the affairs of others and hanging on to the coattails of US foreign policy.
It’s time for a national agenda on energy issues that are not piecemeal and driven by the provinces but led by federalists. The dominoes are poised to drop around the globe, it’s time to gradually decouple to ensure a soft landing.
“Politics will eventually be replaced by imagery.
The politician will be only too happy to abdicate in favor of his image,
because the image will be much more powerful than he could ever be.”
Marshall Mcluhan (1911-1980) Canadian communications theorist and educator.
“One has to be a lowbrow, a bit of a murderer, to be a politician,
ready and willing to see people sacrificed, slaughtered, for the sake of an idea,
whether a good one or a bad one.”
Henry Miller (1891-1980) American author.
*****************************************************
“The old parties are husks, with no real soul within either, divided on artificial lines,
boss-ridden and privilege-controlled, each a jumble of incongruous elements,
and neither daring to speak out wisely and fearlessly on what should be said on the vital issues of the day.”
“When they call the roll in the Senate, the senators do not know whether to answer ”present” or ”not guilty.”
Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919) 26th president of the U.S
“Some men change their party for the sake of their principles; others their principles for the sake of their party.”
Winston Churchill (1874-1965) British politician.
“Until you’ve been in politics you’ve never really been alive; it’s rough and sometimes it’s dirty
and it’s always hard work and tedious details. But, it’s the only sport for grown-ups all other games are for kids.”
Unknown Source
Cut the BS:
When is the ETA for the 1,000 plus troops Battle Ready and on the field in Kandahar?
Btw … just think of the “S” as standing for “Smart” … LOL
As in “Get Smart”?
By Kevin on 02.25.08 10:47 pm
You see there, Kevin, you are starting to smarten up already!
By Ike on 02.26.08 1:23 pm
And you felt that bit of insight worth forwarding from a previous blog?
Thanks Harry.
Holy Crow Batman! Who does this guy think he is? Mike Harris?
http://www.thestar.com/News/FederalBudget/article/306888
Flaherty gains extra $1B
Last night, a senior Ontario government official said that if Ottawa has extra money it should be used to soften the blow of the heavy job losses in the province’s manufacturing sector. “They should be using that money to help grow jobs in Ontario” by joining with the province’s Next Generation Jobs Fund, the official said.
But that seems unlikely. Earlier in the day, Flaherty dismissed the call from Queen’s Park for increased Employment Insurance benefits for the province’s unemployed.
Flaherty charged that there are jobless Ontarians already collecting EI who shouldn’t be.
The Ontario government has argued for the need to reform EI given that only 30 per cent of Ontario workers who lose their jobs qualify for EI benefits – versus about 80 per cent across the country – and those who do receive only about $5,110, compared with $9,070 in the rest of Canada.
IS IT HIS MONEY?
Yes–this is for you Greg.
None are so blind as they that will not see. The big picture is the fight for democracy throughout the whole world. If there is injustice when do we say that as a country we have done more than our share.The tit sucking lefties need to grow up. Had we said we had done more than our share in WWII where would we all be now ? Wearing jack boots and hollering SIEG HIEL or whatever the saying is ? Wake up to reality before it’s too late. And say thank you to our troops. They have more guts in their little fingers than you have in your entire body. (Afraid you might get called up to do your duty ?)
I say again, clearly; we as a country have done more than our share. Time to hand off.
By Greg on 02.26.08 2:23 pm
The Ontario government has argued for the need to reform EI given that only 30 per cent of Ontario workers who lose their jobs qualify for EI benefits – versus about 80 per cent across the country – and those who do receive only about $5,110, compared with $9,070 in the rest of Canada.
IS IT HIS MONEY?
By Greg on 02.26.08 2:50 pm
Greg, you prove again that you have no clue. Ontario doesn’t have the high level on Unemployment found elsewhere, that’s why.
Who set it up the formula? I wonder …
There has been a sense of anticipation for the past 10 days or so that “something is about to happen,” and that “something is about to implode.” Something “big” is in the air.
Monsieur Dion was said to have his finger on the trigger aimed at the govrnment, and was supposedly set to pull it about this time.
The other part of the equation is, however, that if he does that, will some of his MPs pull the trigger on him?
So far, caucus confidentiality has been tight. After all the build-up, it is now, “May be an election, but may be not!”
Is it going to be fish or cut bait?
Having been accused by some on this blog of caving in to the CONS, Monsieur now runs the risk of being accused of caving into the NDP and the Bloc in coming alongside of them to defeat the government.
What is he supposed to do? Does he know? Does anybody know?
The next few days will be filled with landmines and booby traps laid from all directions.
How did it come to this? Who is responsible? Who is to be blamed for the decisions that Monsieur Dion has made?
There is the enemy to the left (the NDP and the Bloc). There is the enemy to the right (the CONS). And there is the enemy from within (some of his own MPs).
Monsieur Dion may simply have to yell out,”Who is on my side?” And then lead the charge with those who are willing to follow.
Onward and forward!
Can you get out tomorrow morning, to help stop this bad idea. Incinerator Bottom ass is very toxic stuff!
It should be put into industrial toxic waste dump sites, not local community garbage dumps!
The more bodys that come get out to the meeting the better. Thanks.
Halton Council Vote – Bottom Ash Contract (Feb. 27), 9:30am
This Wednesday it goes to a vote before the full Council. We’re pretty sure they will follow the Council’s lead and vote against it, too. But it might be nice for them to see a few interested citizens in the chamber as they think about their vote. A little encouragement to have them do the right thing never hurts. So, if you can come out to the Regional Council meeting this Wednesday, February 27 at 9:30am at the Halton Regional Building (on the east side of Bronte Road just North of the QEW) please do so.
Find out about more local issues at,
Oakvillegreen group.
http://www.oakvillegreen.org/
Pull the plug on Harper and let’s get this election overwith already !
Day 1: Harper is a bully
Day 2: Harper is a control freak
Day 3: Harper is disrespectful
Day 4: Harper doesn’t play fair
Day 5: You can’t trust Harper with a majority
Good luck with that, Liberals.
By Calgary Junkie on 02.26.08 12:15 pm
Thanks for your suggestions for the wording for a poster. You are absolutely correct. I am sure the Liberals appreciate your great support. I have lots more adjectives that I could add.
Greg, you prove again that you have no clue. Ontario doesn’t have the high level on Unemployment found elsewhere, that’s why.
Who set it up the formula? I wonder …
By give me a break on 02.26.08 3:08 pm
I didn’t write the article, and I didn’t make the comments. Did I?
And you didn’t address the issue. Big surprise. Oh my gosh, you mean Ontario has been supplementing a great deal of the country with its higher employment ratio? I never would have known.
How outstanding.
When was it dinosaurs roamed the earth?
Didn’t like that little Mike Harris rub eh?
. . . I cherish any recognition . . .
By Harry S on 02.26.08 11:59 am
Now the REAL reason for Harry’s constant postings are made crystal clear to everyone — he / she / it (I’ll refer to it as it for the time being) — it was never cherished, or coveted as a baby.
BTW, does anyone know if it has grown up yet? If not, there will be further problems ahead.
Quick! More shrinks here ASAP!
“I say again, clearly; we as a country have done more than our share. Time to hand off.” –By Greg on 02.26.08 2:23 pm
Greg, that statement would mean a whole lot more if it came from a soldier who has made a sacrifice, and put himself in harm’s way, than it does from some armchair quarterback sitting behind a computer pontificating.
If those willingly volunteering for this service to humanity which you think is misguided choose to believe in their mission, what is that to you? You can spew empty rhetoric all that you want.
You say, “We..have done more than our share.” Why do you say “we…” Is not your and my contribution pretty measly beside what our troops are heroically doing?
I personally know some of the soldiers, and know them to be people of high motivation, a willingness to serve their country no matter the cost, and firm believers in the justice of their mission.
If you disagree with them, what right have you to force your opinion on them? They do not judge you. Why should you judge them?
Dion craps the bed…..unreal. Am I going to be forced to vote for Layton ? God, I hope not.
It now appears that PMSH may not want an immediate electon after all.
While the budget offers no new taxes and no major tax cuts, it introduces a brand new tax-free savings account, breaks for seniors, $400 million to hire 2,500 new police officers and $500 million for public transit infrastructure.
But perhaps more important than what is included in the budget is what’s missing. There appears to be no ‘poison pill’ item that the Liberals will reject, meaning the budget just might pass when it comes before the House of Commons for a vote on March 5.
Time will tell. Stay tuned as to whether Monsieur Dion will finally “pull the trigger.”
The fiscal plan also includes:
Providing $300 million to help Atomic Energy of Canada to develop Candu nuclear technology and support safe operations at the Chalk River plant;
Provides $440 million for Research and Development;
Allows pensioners to income-split for the first time;
Provides $400 million for 2,500 new front-line police officers.
Far and away, the biggest spending commitment in the budget is the $10.2 billion that will go towards knocking the debt down to $457 billion.
The 400-plus page document is laced with references to what the federal government did in the last budget and the fall fiscal update — when they spent $60 billion on tax relief — and ways those promises and pledges will carry through the 2008-09 period.
The lack of big spending in this budget reflects the current economic climate.
The government is running surpluses and paying down debt and reducing taxes, and inflation and interest rates are low. However, “Canada is not an island” and factors such as the slowing U.S. economy mean prudence and wisdom is necessary.
Stay tuned form Monsieur Dion’s response, and Garth’s take on it.
Savings Program Explained
I have a hard time understanding how this can help seniors.
Greg, that statement would mean a whole lot more if it came from a soldier who has made a sacrifice, and put himself in harm’s way,
By Ike on 02.26.08 4:24 pm
Like you???
than it does from some armchair quarterback sitting behind a computer pontificating.
By Ike on 02.26.08 4:24 pm
Like you???
You say, “We..have done more than our share.” Why do you say “we…”
By Ike on 02.26.08 4:24 pm
I said, “we AS A COUNTRY have done more than our share.”
Why do you insist on misquoting and and misrepresenting?
The rest of your post assumes that Armed Forces personnel make the decisions that determine assignments. When did that start?
YAWN!
Pecked to Death …
Here are the official “Changes for Seniors” in the budget documentation – http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/budget2008/#s3
‘Wide as a mile and an inch deep’ So is the adept description of the Dim Jim’s Budget.
I think I will take out an empty beer bottle and encircle it with areas needing funding. Then surround it with Monopoly Money, give the bottle a spin and see who gets what!
I bet that means will be as valid as anything Dim Jim comes up with…maybe even better?
Like forecasting, I use the SWAG Method…’Scientific Wild Ass Guess’
Oh, I better not mention that…Harper HATES science.
Going back to something more entertaining and stimulating, like reading a book. I think a little George Carlin is perfect at this time. I’ll start with his ‘Everyman’ bit!
Have fun reading polls that mean nothing.
It now appears that PMSH may not want an immediate electon after all.
By Ike on 02.26.08 4:35 pm
So, that just dawned on you did it Ike/Harry? A little slow off the mark aren’t you? I posted that assessment over a week ago with the sentiment I did not buy into the idea that Stephen Harper was trying to engineer his own train wreck. Did you miss that post? Perhaps you were busy, extending olive branches or just pontificating.
By smoker on 02.26.08 2:56 pm
I told you to read the posts on this blog, and go back and educate yourself with the material provided on previous blogs on this subject. There is a vast array of information available here and through other sources as well.
Your assertions and comparisons reflect your lack of education and thus comprehension. I don’t mean to be rude to you, but the concerns you state have been discussed repeatedly on this blog site recently, so you can find many useful responses and informative posts/links etc. with a minimum of effort. The choice is yours.
Oh, and I have no lack of gut. I could stand to loose some.
“Conversely, I have sat and listened for hours as my caucus colleagues twisted and agonized over how to deal with the Afghan mission. They strained to do the honourable and noble thing, to find the public interest, seek compromise and in the end put enough water in the wine to find that common ground. Leading the path to statesmanship was Stephane Dion.” — seldom have I seen a more self-serving, obsequious piece of prose — surely you are missing a fine career in pulp fiction.
Greg, before you accuse others of being on the “slow side,” may be you should check your facts.
In saying that PMSH may not want an election after all, I was not saying what I believed, but was responding to what Garth said last February 7, 2008.
I personally never believed he wanted an election now either. But here is what Garth said on February 7 at 9:37 p.m.:
“Mr. Harper, after lying to income trust investors, lying to Atlantic Canadians, ripping up the Kyoto Accord, reneging on the Kelowna Accord to First Nations, welching on a promise to create 125,000 child care spaces a year, doing nothing about climate change, firing our nuclear regulator, declaring the Quebec people a nation and presiding over the gutting of the manufacturing sector in southern Ontario, now wants an election. Desperately.
“Why? Because he fears it’ll all get worse.
“So do I. Bring it on.” –posted by Garth Turner on 02.07.08 @ 9:37 pm
So I was responding to Garth’s comment, not your comment.
By the way, what is your analysis of what Garth said on February 7 at 9:37 p.m.
Greg?
By Bill-Muskoka on 02.26.08 5:27 pm
Hey Bill, I am wondering…when you refer to the Federal Minister of Finance as ‘Dim Jim’ does that mean you are actually smarter and more successful that he is? I mean, to call him such an insulting name, must mean that you are so very much more intelligent and successful. Right?
Just asking. Leasa
By Ike on 02.26.08 6:51 pm
Well Ike, if you were responding to Garth or a specific blog entry, I saw no mention of that in your post. Maybe you should have referenced the entry.
As far as Feb 7th blog entry, I had to go back and have a gander as it didn’t stand out in my mind.
Analysis??
A lot of what gets printed here is speculative.
Much of what is contained in the excerpt you posted is a matter of record. Not all is attributable to the current government.
The entry is designed to heighten election fever, taunt a little and could possibly represent a couple of strategies that haven’t been recognized here yet.
In politics, all is not as it may appear.
“In politics, all is not as it may appear.” –By Greg on 02.26.08 9:31 pm
Thank you, Greg, for your good natured response.
The only question that I have is that in politics, why is it that when a false impression is given by one side, it is called “lying,” and when it is given by another side, it is called “all is not as it may appear.”
I guess that it depends on whose ox is bring gored.
In any case, have a good one, Greg.
By Ike on 02.27.08 8:14 am
Wise old Chief once said, “It is clear what I mean, all you have to do is check the color of my smoke.”
By Ted Browne on 02.26.08 12:51 pm
Thanks Ted,
The Onion seldom disappoints. It’s raining on the left coast again and I needed the chuckle.
(listening to Ted Menzies con drone on while I catch up on Garth’s comments)
Hey Garth, you were just on. Opps, remember to speak thru the speaker:) Menzies didn’t know the answer to your question anyway. Obviously. Oh good you are up again in a sec. Make him spin!
Geo
I don’t think that anyone who goes to Afghanistan and sees the humanitarian crisis there for themselves would want to abandon these people who have endured 24 years of war.
There are many aid agencies and military personal there who want to do the right thing and help.
Julie McGregor