Book Review
Canada not immune from subprime crisis: Garth Turner
The Harper government has vowed to do everything in its power to kill a new tax break for middle class families.
The finance minister’s MP assistant said Friday that Conservatives will lobby the Senate they always ridicule to strike down the bill which the House of Commons just passed. The finance department has declared war on the legislation which will let parents deduct from income the savings they put aside for their kid’s education. A government spokesperson told media there is a ‘plan B’ to destroy this gift to families if they cannot get the senators to do it for them. Jim Flaherty said, “This is the kind of thing Liberals bring forward. They want to drive us back into deficits and we’re not going to go back into deficits.” And the Harperites trotted out third-party critics on Friday to saturate the media with a message of hate and astonishment.
Typical was Finn Poschmann, of the CD Howe Institute – himself an architect of the government’s new, now competing, after-tax savings plan – who trashed the RESP legislation on TV. It’s outrageous, he said, that MPs should be writing policy dealing with taxes and finances, since that’s the domain of the government.
Memo to Finn: This is a democracy. The people decide what’s best for the people. MPs represent the people. MPs passed this. Suck it up, sweetheart.
The outrage now oozing from the PMO and Jim Flaherty’s skyscraper in downtown Ottawa is palpable. I have no doubt the Liberal MP who shepherded this through the Commons, Dan McTeague, is wondering if his real battle has just begun. And I have every expectation now that the Harper government will throw this back in the face of the Commons somehow as yet another confidence measure.
Why the incredible opposition to a measure that will help so many families? After all, it makes savings for higher education far easier. It means fewer university grads will leave school with a crushing personal debt. It will increase the cash flow for parents able to save. It will open up innovative ways money can be sheltered, and augmented between RRSPs and RESPs. And, mostly, it beats the crap out of the tax-free savings plan as a financial tool. (Remember, contributions to the TFSA are not deductible from taxable income.)
The government is claiming this will cost a ton of money in lost revenues, and perhaps topple the federal budget back into deficit. That’s rich for a gang that has jacked federal spending to the highest level in history; which accelerated the second GST cut for political reasons, ripping another $6 billion a year out of the treasury; which spent $5 billion on three new heavy-lift aircraft; which gave Quebec a 34% increase in transfer payments; and cost its own treasury almost $1 billion a year by destroying the income trust sector. Oh yeah, and each artillery shell our guys light up in Afghanistan is worth $150,000, or the entire post-graduate debt of five students.
Face it: Harper hates this because (a) it’s a Liberal idea, (b) it actually helps people and they might remember, (c) it makes their own savings plan DOA, and (d) it challenges the man’s megalomaniacal control fetish. And did I mention it’s a Liberal idea?
In reality, this is the first major piece of positive personal financial news Canadian families have had in decades. In the scheme of things, it is affordable. In a knowledge-based world of value-added jobs, it’s essential national policy.
And Parliament passed it into law. The people spoke.
Will Stephen Harper now deny them? Let’s watch.
189 comments ↓
I think the idea is great. Why is Dan McTeague so much more innovative and on the ball than Flaherty?
Their ridings are almost side by side yet they are so different..
The Liberal tax deductible RESP plan disproportionately benefits the rich, since they will realized the largest tax bracket saving .. while the poorest will get a much smaller tax saving.
So Garth .. your plan is of greatest benefit to the rich and ultra rich .. while the lowest classes and cash-strapped middle class will not really benefit at all.
Shame Garth, shame … for springing such a deceptive and rich-biased tax dodging scheme for the children of the rich … shame …!!!!
The average family income is $65,000, and the average family will benefit greatly from this. To hear a Conservative supporter argue for the poor, when Flaherty’s TFSA is only of benefit to those with after-tax savings spells one thing: hypocrite. — Garth
we need more bills passed in this manner then who rules.
Garth, I do think the RESP is a great idea. It gives people choice where to save and for what. Maybe the government should allow taxpayers to use only 1 of the options. Either one can use TFSA, or one can chose RESP.
Garth, don’t you think matters concerning the governments revenue and tax systems should have more then 1 vote? Budgets take 3 votes and this RESP only 1 and off to senate? Wouldn’t it be worth another look?
Every bill has three readings, as did this one. — Garth
So Garth .. your plan is of greatest benefit to the rich and ultra rich .. while the lowest classes and cash-strapped middle class will not really benefit at all.
By Harry S on 03.07.08 9:56 pm
Will this be what the Conservatives go to the Senate with.
The Conservatives will be confused and all over the place on this one; like a dog wandering around a fall fair.
Mathematicians Have Formulated New Equation To Calculate Flaherty’s Geometry Of Hypocrisy
A well respected scientific journal is reporting that Canadian mathematicians have formulated a new equation to calculate Jim Flaherty’s geometry of hypocrisy.
The formula is expressed in the following equation:
a^2 = b^2 + c^2
where:
a = “asshole”
b = “bullshit”
c = “cock-and-bull story”
These mathematicians have tested their theory in the “real world” by inputting all statements uttered by Flaherty into the formula and have found the equation to hold true 100% of the time.
Of course, funding for the study was not provided by the Conservative government.
Bravo!
About time McTeague did something more creative than providing updates on the price of gas we can expect at the pumps.
The RESP proposal is bound to give the CRAP a lot of free gas.
Can we expect another blacked out document from CRAP evidencing the deficit about to be created?
When were the 3 votes? All on one day or spread out.
Over two days. — Garth
I love it, your right it’s the best thing to come out of parliament in two years and worth fighting for. Unite with the other parties on this issue. Give something of value to Canadians out of this sad era of Harpression.
So do the Liberals now have an issue that is worth fighting an election over?
The average family income is $65,000, and the average family will benefit greatly from this. To hear a Conservative supporter argue for the poor, when Flaherty’s TFSA is only of benefit to those with after-tax savings spells one thing: hypocrite. — Garth
…………………………………
Fair enough Garth .. so would you support a ‘reverse’ RESP and TFSA tax benefit calculation .. where the lower income parents get the rich parents tax rate deduction, and the rich get the lowest tax bracket saving ??
Also would you possibly support a decreasing principal savings amount as the income increases ??
Btw .. how is your ‘family’ tax splitting scheme being accepted by the Liberal party ?? Your Liberals had better promote the idea before the Conservatives implement it.
who needs an election when you can beat him by getting bills past that harpers against. give him ulcers.
Hmmm…
So the same families who have a “negative savings rate”, to quote Garth, and are right up against it financially have suddenly found a few thou a year sitting around?
Are you claiming the Cons are overspending on the miltary or buying kit our soldiers don’t need? Rationale?
Analysis? Or do you simply not like the military
As has been pointed out the shiny new RESP program flows benefits primarily to upper-income families and not the low-income families in society. Given that the economy is in the process of tanking how has subsidizing the affluent became a Liberal priority?
How did this blow past all the other areas you claimed needed attantion; the environment, help for industry, infrastructure, income-splitting, etc?
Yet again Turner decides to suck and blow at the same time.
Many families have no savings because after-tax income is often decimated by putting money aside for educational expense for children. Meanwhile there’s no lecture here on spending or tax cuts from the Conservatives. The last GST one per cent cut costs $6 billion a year, and will do nothing for the environment, job creation, infrastucture or, sadly, family finances. You guys have blown it. — Garth
Garth,
It is my understanding that the government doesn’t have to honour a private members bill if it involves expenditure of public funds. I believe this bill will cost the tax payers about 1 billion dollars a year to fully implement.
It is a perfectly legal bill, and has been ruled as such. — Garth
This will be very interesting: who rules, the Government or the collective of MPs? Anyone recall a similar saw-off in our history?
Are the Liberals prepared for an election over this? Harper certainly will give you one, and you’re in too deep to back off.
While I think it’s a good idea, one has to wonder why this wasn’t put on the table before the budget passed? If this idea cost money and is not included in the budget, how is it supposed to work?
Support tax deductible RESPs. Make your voice heard: tax-free-resp.blogspot.com
Harry: I believe if Jim slashed a mere 1% from the subsidies handed over to profit- rich gas, oil and financial moguls, he would have tons of money to finance Dan’s excellent family-friendly, education -friendly savings plan.
It’s all the talk at the local hockey arena here. Hockey moms and dads are delighted that the government has finally brought foreward a sensible plan that allows them to save for future education costs using pre-tax income. Hurray for Dan! Hurray for the Liberals! Hurray for the NDP! Hurray for the Bloc!! And Hurray for the Conservative M.P.’s who secretly applaud the move but were silenced.
While my grandchildren could benefit from such a program as their parents will likely contibute more if they have the tax deduction, I still don’t think this plan is the best plan to help out with post-secondary education costs.
As a retired high-school teacher, it always seemed to me that many bright kids were left out. Even with student loans, a university education was impossible without some parental support.
We need to be allocating funds to decrease tuition across the board OR to give grants to every student going to post-secondary. This is fair to everyone. It doesn’t discriminate between rich or poor.
This plan, although great for high-income families, does nothing to increase the availability of higher education.
You know what? The very best plan for the country would be FREE education to those who PASSED academic qualifying exams. That would ensure that students wised up and actually competed for spots. But that will never happen–because the rich pay for their children’s education–they buy their degrees.
“In the scheme of things, it is affordable”?
“…it’s essential national policy”?
And yet less than a week ago it wasn’t even on the radar.
A subsidy program for the wealthy as “essential national policy”? It seems like only yesterday that Dion was targetting poverty as THE major Liberal issue.
how about making TFSA’s tax deductable??
Hey Garth, I’ve always wondered why RESPs were taxable, and this makes total sense.
This is the way Parliament should get things done.
I must say that it is astonishing that the CPC, as offended as they say they are, did not do a thing about it while it was in the process of passing parliament. This just underlines how incapable they are as a “ruling” party.
I am relishing their conniptions on how to go about preventing this from passing. Regardless of whatever tactice they employ, they will just emphasize their hypocrisy and stupidity.
Austin
The Liberal tax deductible RESP plan disproportionately benefits the rich, since they will realized the largest tax bracket saving .. while the poorest will get a much smaller tax saving.
By Harry s
——————————
Dan McTeague was confronted with this question on BNN from the C.D.Howe Institute guy. He said that it isn,t the total answer because it would not be much use to the bottom 20% of Canadians,but would benifit middle income earners the most. A very Liberal and common sense policy that strikes a middle ground. Just what you would expect from a Government that doesn,t pander to the far right or far left. Good show.
M.P. Dan McTeague
What a brilliant move. A policy that the lunch bucket brigade can identify with. Can you imagine the drop in the polls for Harper if he puts this to a confidence motion and triggers an election. Political suicide for Harper. Not to mention the other scandals which would be enough on their own.
I watched Dan McTeague on BNN and he made the guy from the C.D. Howe Institute look like an amateur.
I never new this M.P. Dan McTeague even existed until now. This guys has the knowledge and the cahoons to stand up to Harpers lap dogs and his priveldged corporate buddies. Im impressed. Good for you Mr.Dan McTeague.
Sorry Garth, this is a money bill passed under the guise of a PMB by a hostile opposition backed up by a questionable ruling by a partisan speaker.
What is the Liberals plan for dealing with the $900M shortfall? Undoubtedly it will be offset by raising taxes elsewhere.
Good budgetary control and fiscal management comes from an overall plan, but given your track record of financial advice, I can’t expect you to understand that.
I still dont get why this Harry bothers to come here…never has anything worthwhile to say or positive…
Garth,
Has anybody done comparitive present value cash flows on new RESP vs TFSA? No? Tell us, what exactly does the Department of Finance do?
I agree that the Tory reaction has nothing to do with economics and finance. It has to do with optics.
Another useful comparison is the tax revenue from a post-secondary graduate versus a secondary school graduate. If RESPs are a cost to the government, what is the return? How much more is a post-secondary grad worth to the Gov?Does anybody bother crunching those numbers? Not anymore, eh?
Let the children know the drill: Come on in, sit down, shut up, study hard, get smart, and pay your taxes happily.
Capital Gains Deferral is now Capital CRAP CONtinuance.
BCE deal approved and capital gains will be triggered for most long time shareholders. Good bye BCE, we will see you in the future and in pieces sold off as IPO’s. Now wasn’t allowing BCE to become an Income Trust a better idea than a hasty CRAP manoeuvre? Don’t Harp on it.
HARPER RULES,
TURNER DROOLS!!!!!!!
If you guys want to create the federal budget then show up and vote. If not then just let him do his thing. It is good that someone is leading this country.
I have heard of arm chair quarterbacks before, but you guys have the opportunity to do something. So do it or shut up.
Re-sole (no soul?) Flaherty & the RESP
Just heard re-sole Flaherty on the radio saying that because of the RESP’s estimated cost of $900M, (It only took the back of a spare envelope he had handy to calculate it; ) he feels the program is “irresponsible”.
Does this mean that the Oct 30/07 “fair tax” that cost us $35 BILLION is “responsible”?
Who let this guy out?
Or more correctly, who let him in?
Unfortunately a whole bunch of trust investors let him in . . . but I have a few friends who warned me and did not vote for the Cons.
Fortunately a whole bunch of trust investors will vote him out when we get the chance.
” And parliament passed it into law. The people spoke. Will Stephen Harper now deny them? Let’s watch. ”
Well Garth we watched as parliament passed the recent budget and your vote on behalf of the people was denied. Ah, but that was not Stephen, but Stephane who denied them. Why have you become such a hypocrite?
Kudos to Mr. McTeague and his RESP. You have just done to Steve what he’s been doing to everybody for the last two yearsL: he’ll be screwed if he allows it to pass and screwed if he doesn’t. Good work! I love that the shoe is now firmly on the other foot and we thank you on behalf of all the Canadian families who have kids who seek a higher education.
. . . That’s rich for a gang that has jacked federal spending to the highest level in history; which accelerated the second GST cut for political reasons, ripping another $6 billion a year out of the treasury; which spent $5 billion on three new heavy-lift aircraft; which gave Quebec a 34% increase in transfer payments; and cost its own treasury almost $1 billion a year by destroying the income trust sector. Oh yeah, and each artillery shell our guys light up in Afghanistan is worth $150,000, or the entire post-graduate debt of five students.
Any chance that CRAP will do the right thing for Canada and resign en masse, giving the excuse their egos have become so grossly inflated by their obvious love of power, they cannot see the forest for the trees?
After all, if harpo can declare Quebec “a nation within a nation”, up their transfer payments to 34% while letting BC get by with tiddlywinks, will try to kill this excellent piece of new legislation, then it is obvious that CRAP is looking for a fight they will never win.
Now is close to when ALL Cdns. should be told, in plain, simple and straightforward language, that harpo and assorted nuts are presently destroying our country.
Give voters clear examples of what CRAP has done, is doing now and will continue to do in the future — they are simply changing the rules every time they don’t get what they want, and it’s annoying the hell out of us — BECAUSE THEY’RE SCREWING OUR LAND UP AND THEY’RE MILKING US FOR ALL OUR WORTH.
So, if CRAP wants to scrap, fine. Gloves off, no holds barred and no rules this time. Everyone for him/herself.
“third-party critics on Friday to saturate the media with a message of hate and astonishment”?! Have you actually read/listened to the people you slag? If so you’d discover that they make quite a compelling case on the issue. Clearly the Librals could blow them out of the water by pointing out the factual errors in their assertions in regard to cost, impact on families of various financial status and so on. Point out what they got wrong Why isn’t that being done?
Yet again, Garth, you attempt to suck and blow at the same time.
“But unless the prime minister has a better story than the one that he has, it’s just going to get worse,” predicted Mr. Bricker, president of Ipsos Reid. “Right now, it’s a combination of a tape that says ‘financial considerations’ and then a prime minister standing up and not even explaining what ‘financial considerations’ means.”
On the question of how to deal with the allegations, a solid majority of those polled – 62 per cent – said “these matters should be kept out of the courts.”
National Post, Fleet Street Edition, corner of Speers Road and Lakeshore, Oakville, ON 01:59a.m. Mar 8, 2008
STICK A FORK IN THE BASTARD!
WOW….someone really screwed up on the Reform/CONservative side to let this puppy get thru!!! Will HARPO sue them also???? Was it due to a lack of interest on the CON side?… or one of those….well I thought you were keeping tabs….no…I thought you were… either way I guess the CONS can’t use the word VIGILANT as one of their attributes eh…..I love it….
These mathematicians have tested their theory in the “real world” by inputting all statements uttered by Flaherty into the formula and have found the equation to hold true 100% of the time.
Of course, funding for the study was not provided by the Conservative government.
By Robert Gibbs on 03.07.08 10:03 pm
Willy Wonka Jim Flaherty & his hypocrisy factory
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/03/willy-wonka-jim-flaherty-his-hypocrisy.html
By Brent Fullard on 03.07.08 10:06 am
Flim Flam Dim Jim Flaherty doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Check Brent’s review of Flim Flam’s variables and inconsistencies in the realm of tax application rules.
http://www.birdsasart.com/Hippo-Yawn.jpg
THIS BLOG IS A VALUABLE RESOURCE!
BTW, DID I MENTION, SCREW POSH-MAN.
Whatever he says is “sour” because his TFSA received DESERV-ED treatment.
Mr Garth TurnerMP,
Can all people use RESPs savings to go back to school themselfs or only for there kids to go to school?
Could people give it to grandkids or other relatives for school?
Have all the details been worked out yet?
Would there be any advantage to savings in an RESP if you didn’t have any kids,
or do you need kids to open a RESP?
Thanks, Just wondering.
Garth,
Who can should we contact besides our local MP to ensure this passes.
Thank you for any contact information provided.
david
Were will it all end?
What kind of world do you want your family to live in?
Tell your MP that Canada will mot except the USA Real ID cards.
Remeber Harper signed the Secrative SPP deal to harmanize our standards!!!
Real ID – Governor of Montana tells the Feds to SHOVE IT!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87991791
“And, mostly, it beats the crap out of the tax-free savings plan as a financial tool. ”
Not if there are no children in the family or if the children are grown up!
While I think on the surface, this NEW RESP may be worth while for some, you have not answered my questions, which I posed yesterday.
For us to better understand this, please answer my questions.
What if you have no kids? Then, gee, I guess you don’t need to find $20,000 a year in after-tax money to pay their tutition. — Garth
“So do the Liberals now have an issue that is worth fighting an election over?”
By David Garbary on 03.07.08 10:11 pm
Dear David,
Why fight an election when the current Parliament can get important people-focussed legislation passed by getting reasonable MPs to agree on good ideas?
Well done Parliament!
Excellent job COLLAORATING for the benefit of ALL of the people of Canada!!
I’ve had just about enough of the Targeted-for-Votes Harper tax inducements!!!
Sincerely,
MB
Are you a critical-thinker?
Are you really informed?
I’ve read the health sceince report 2006 by the NRC(USA). The facts on Fluorides effect on the human body are not good at all!
You Tube Censors Hugely Popular “Question Your Reality” Video
11min, link below to see and find more sceince info. on fluoride.
Friday, March 7, 2008
After receiving over 50,000 views in a few hours and on its way to shoot to the top of the most viewed chart, You Tube brazenly pulled a popular video from their rankings system Friday in an act of wanton censorship.
“Question Your Reality,” a stirring and well put together video montage featuring talk show host Alex Jones was rocketing up the charts, already having reached number 2 most viewed on News and Politics and soaring up the general most discussed and most viewed categories.
A moment later, it was nowhere to be seen as You Tube cleared the slate and prevented the clip from going completely viral.
You Tube is owned by Google, who have pulled this trick many times before, but by spreading the video far and wide you can help offset their censorship and wake people up. 11min video
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2008/070308_c_censors.htm
To help you find the science reports and info. goto
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
See interveiw of auther of book, ‘Fluoride deception’. Read on line free the NRC2006 report on water fluoridation.
lots more good info. on site.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
Demand your local Government to stop adding this toxic industrial waste, fluoride, to our drinking water now!!!
There even traces of arsinic and lead in the fluoride they add to the drinking water!
Brita water filters DO NOT take fluoride out.
You need an ion exchange filter to remove it. We shouldn’t be adding it to the water in the first place!
Boiling only make it more concentrated.
Fluoride will lower your IQ permanently
if you drink it as an infant!!!
Would you drink sunscreen to protect your skin? Then why are we drinking fluoride in water to protect teeth outer surfaces?
The studies that said it helps reduce tooth decay were ‘cooked’.
Mercury / thimerosal issue:
Why do we inject mercury into our kids?
Mercury is a neuro-toxin and it Bioaccumulates, it never leave the body. It’s in some vaccinces,
as a compond of mecury.
They don’t even come right out and tell you on the label, they can it thimerosal.
Thimerosal, is an organomercury compound (approximately 49% mercury by weight) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal
There is more mercury in some vaccince than they say is safe to eat if it was in fish!
Some vaccince have formaldehyde, as a preservative, Formaldehyde can be toxic, allergenic, and carcinogenic.
Vaccination can be a good thing, but why do they contain know toxic chemicals that we inject into peoples/kids blood/bodies???
Who is looking out for the publics long term health???
Why is Harper standardizing Canadas standards with the USA though the secrative SPP deal???
“Don Drummond, chief economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank, said the McTeague plan would be far more dear than original Finance Department estimates suggest.
Mr. Drummond said tax deductible RESP contributions would eventually cost the treasury $2-billion a year because Canadians would flock to the program to get the tax break. ”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080307.wresp08/BNStory/National/home
EI overhaul underhanded
Fri. Mar 7 – 4:48 AM
CAN CANADIAN workers and employers expect to pay lower employment insurance premiums now that federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is turning EI into a self-financing Crown corporation?
Not likely, in our opinion. For it’s hard to imagine premium-payers getting a break if Mr. Flaherty gets away with the huge financial deception that lies at the heart of the underfunded EI restructuring announced in last week’s budget.
In a nutshell, the shell game is this: When EI shifts from government program to Crown corporation, its $54-billion accounting surplus is going to get lost in the shuffle. The Harper government is cynically wiping this debt to EI stakeholders off the books – though you won’t see any admission of this anywhere in the budget papers. Instead, Mr. Flaherty merely tells us that the government will provide the new EI with a $2-billion cash reserve and run the plan on a “go-forward basis.”
Now that’s a sweet deal for the finance minister. He’s redeeming the federal government’s $54-billion IOU to EI at four cents cash on the dollar.
It’s not a sweet deal for those who will pay future premiums. For $2 billion is not nearly an adequate financial reserve for EI.
ONE HELLUVA SWEET MESS SPONSORED BY HARPER, FLAHERTY AND SOLBERG, WHO OBVIOUSLY DON’T HAVE ANY WISH, OTHER THAN TO FIGHT, WITH THE PROVINCES.
I CAN SEE FORTY-ONE ONTARIO CPC MP’S GONE AFTER THE NEXT ELECTION.
Note to News Operations: There’s a War In South America.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-dantoni/note-to-news-operations-_b_90478.html
Goldman Sachs raises possibility of $200 a barrel oil.
http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/myway-com/news-story.asp?guid=%7B4B702F7F-41F8-45F0-A133-630F12F2C764
US reports massive job losses.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/374C3544-BFD6-460E-A990-5FB775A13D25.htm
If history is a reliable guide, the recession of 2008 is now unavoidable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/business/08recession.html?em&ex=1205038800&en=c7b7a73331f4f97a&ei=5087
I now have a use for the classless ten-percenter on the $1200 child care that came in my mail on Thursday (great timing). How could the Conservatives, the only true defenders of the “family”, take away an incentive designed to help my children at the same time they’re spending our $s (no need to worry about deficits I guess) telling me Dion will take away my token $100?
This definitely could be the “tipping” point issue to drive an election. This impacts so many voters even if they may not personally be yet in a position to avail of this measure. You could also use this to summarize how their wild west spending ways could now push us into a deficit and not just a meagre $900M initiative.
I’d be interested to know the age of this bill – how long has Dan been trying to get this through?
A plan for the people & by the people.
About freaking time the people have had a say.
A Liberal idea–who cares whose idea it was–it is a good one.
I say this may be the perfect election issue.
Dr Mike–a former life-long Conservative.
Can you imagine providing education for our children and grandchildren rather than having them bum a ride to Mexico or China to work in some sweat shop…..shame on the opposition. Who is going to work in Wal Mart and other such low paying places……the poor little rich kids?…nope they do not even work at all….labour at minimal wages that’s for the middle class! and hey when these companies get big they just ship them offshore….By the way is Flaherty standing up of all the lost manufacturning jobs due to his lack of foresight while he was on his majority spending spree. If Fortier does not like his SENATE APPOINTMENT BY PMSH, quit or shut the heck up!
Again all the con trolls criticize a far better plan than the TSFA, which if you recall, Flim Flam basically said could be used to save for that vacation in Florida. Agree Garth, its a Liberal plan so it must be bad. But the TSFA is better, even though its after tax savings.
I thought the cons hated the senate and its powers?How ironic that Harper must now go to them for help.
What a very bad week Steve has had.The polls look bad , 1 in 3 Canadians think he is a LIAR .
Conservatives aim to use Senate to scuttle RESP bill
Last Updated: Friday, March 7, 2008 | 4:01 PM ET Comments9Recommend27CBC News
The Conservative government wants the Senate to help it defeat a private member’s bill that would make contributions to registered education savings plans tax deductible.
The bill, which was first put forward by Liberal MP Dan McTeague two years ago, passed the House of Commons on Wednesday night with a narrow margin of 34 votes
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/03/07/mcteagueresp.html
Nearly a third say PM lying: poll
Norma Greenaway and juliet O’neill, Canwest News Service
Published: Saturday, March 08, 2008
OTTAWA – More than four in 10 Canadians believe allegations Conservative party officials offered dying MP Chuck Cadman a $1-million life insurance policy to gain his support in a crucial vote, and nearly one in three don’t believe Prime Minister Stephen Harper is telling the truth when he says he did not know of it, an Ipsos Reid poll says.
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=361312
PM’s man in the shadows
Harper’s chief of staff an ex-professor who has been known to reduce cabinet ministers to tears
Mar 08, 2008 04:30 AM
Tonda MacCharles
Richard Brennan
ottawa bureau
OTTAWA–It comes as no surprise to those who know both men that Prime Minister Stephen Harper has not fired Ian Brodie, his 40-year-old chief of staff.
Nor was it a surprise to see a grim Harper glowering in question period this week when he wasn’t fielding questions about Brodie being fingered as a source in the so-called NAFTA-gate.
The boss is clearly furious.
“Stephen would just be in a black rage,” said a source who knows both men. “I would think that firing would be a welcome release for Ian.”
Most Canadians wouldn’t recognize the tall, bearded Brodie. Toronto-born and raised, the former political science professor at the University of Western Ontario is an integral player in Harper’s inner circle. And he has been known to reduce cabinet ministers to tears.
But journalists have found him to be approachable and generous with political analysis and observations.
In private conversations, Brodie, like Harper, is at times shockingly candid, at times aggravatingly obscure, smart and analytical, with a sharp, wry sense of humour.
A source close to the Conservatives says Brodie and Harper are intellectually aligned and as a result Brodie wields heavy-handed authority with Harper’s approval.
“Their closeness comes from an intellectual alignment on things like abhorring judicial activism. They are sympatico in terms of their outlook on life. As well, if people think Stephen has ice water in his veins, this guy is even colder.
“He screams and yells and frequently reduces cabinet ministers to tears. Whatever he wants, he gets,” the source said.
The source said Harper won’t cut Brodie loose despite any apparent indiscretion. “There are two (people) this party will circle the wagons for, one is the Prime Minister and the other is Ian Brodie.”
Others downplayed Brodie’s tough approach, saying it came at the suggestion of a former top adviser, University of Calgary political scientist Tom Flanagan, to keep MPs and others in line when the Conservatives first took power, but that he has since delegated more, and relaxed his management style.
But Liberal MP Garth Turner (Halton), who joined the Grits after being kicked out of the Conservative caucus, remembers the iron fist of Brodie. Turner said other than idle chatter, he and Brodie only spoke once, after Turner criticized the Tories for allowing Liberal defector David Emerson into cabinet.
“When a call came from the PMO, it was Brodie on the other end of the line,” said Turner. “He just went up one side of me and down the other. … And he said `if you want to sit as an independent, Turner, I can f—ing arrange that.’ And he did.”
(Turner was kicked out of the Conservative caucus and sat for a short time as an independent before joining the Liberals last year.)
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/326412
Garth,
All of what you say is true. The irony of Harper asking the Senate to quash the bill is not lost and in fact is quite funny. The guy from the CD Howe Institute makes good points, but who the heck are the CD Howe Institute, some right wing think tank.
But you conveniently forget that an RESP already gives the contributor back 20% on the first $2500/year/child in the form of the CESG which must go into the RESP plan. (A tax deduction gets spent where, maybe back in the education savings plan, most probably not?)
It is essentially a tax defferal so people putting money into an RESP are already getting a tax break.
Could the program be changed. Certainly. How about the CESG being 30% and payable on the entire $5,000/year/child max contribution?
And when it comes to government sending, certainly, this government could find area of their spending program less worthy to help fund kids education.
But to have the contributions tax deductable, and have the CESG and have the money taxed in the hands of the child (low to zero) on withdrawal, and ….and…. and….
We want our contributions tax deductable and we want the government to throw in some extra.
As Harry Seacome would say in the film “Oliver”, “MORE, THE BOY WANTS MORE…….!”
The way Harper is going about discrediting this proposal is certinly an attack on the family. I would benefit, personally from the proposal, but the proposal is just plain wrong,
especially as the money could be rolled into an RRSP (contribution room willing) without giving back the 20%CESG!
Hey what a great way to save for retirement, put money in the RESP, have it tax deductable like an RRSP, have the government give you 20%, and then roll it into the RRSP cause you’re too tight to give it to the kids. (Or you use a TFSA to save for education!)
Hey, the government just kicked in 20% for your retirement.
Yes the RESP program should be enhanced.
Yes government should use money from one of its ideological based programs to fund the changes.
But the McTeague proposal is open to abuse and hasn’t been thought through.
As for the CD Howe Institute, myob, the MP’s are the peoples representatives.
“Memo to Finn: This is a democracy.”
Not for the last two years it hasnt, least not in the eyes of the Harper regiem. Once again this lot shows their complete and utter distain for our democratic process and the will of our representitives. Nothing new here!
That they do not have room in their finances for “unforseen” expenditures, this being one of them, says exactly what sort of keepers of the public purse these Harpocrits are.
You know, I think the real reason for the government’s opposition to the RESP is embarrassment over letting it slip by them. It’s not the measure itself, which will have a take up rate similar to RRSPs, it’s the fact that they have been seen to be ‘not in control’.
Watch out, this one is going to get personal.
By Paul M on 03.08.08 5:55 am
Yep Paul…since the Cons have been in power, every poor person has saved 2% on their Mercedes Benz….lol….I hate to break it to you Paul, but the GST isn’t applicible on most food items which is what the poor buy! Read what you wrote agin Paul and then think about it.
Thre RESP program was the first conversation that was discussed this morning in our family home.
Just imagine the opportunity the opportunity that kids have as a result of this program,.
In the words of Barak Obama ‘Yes we can’!
By James- Chatham on 03.08.08 7:07 am
Now here’s a solution:
grandather existing RESP plans under the current rules.
Everyone with an RESP plan can open a new one with the following rules, the idea being that if money is not used for education, it becomes equivalent to money put into an RRSP:
1. Contributions are tax deductable.
2. Government still gives 20% CESG
3. Money comes out to child on childs tax return.
4. If money transfered to RRSP, CESG and 20% of growth returned to government. (Remember your contribution went in as tax deductable, just like RRSP)
5. If money taken out, CESG and 20% returned to government. Remainder taxed as income just like taking money from RRSP.
Do you think McTeague could go for this?
Think, spending a couple of $million on fuel to send submarines from Halifax to Vancouver when the taxpayer funded submarine lift and shed c/w all the well trained staff available in their home port of Halifax is well y’all know Conservative madness. Betcha Harper would not like to explain that move against the education of children. Oh by the way our Destroyers & CPF’s have been tired up alongside for months along with the Coastal Defence sweepers due to lack of money for fuel and training….hello the Air Force has been grounded also. Yup…Flaherty and Harper saving big bucks for Senator/Minister Fortier’s friendly give a way plans….to ????
Re:Jody on 03.07.08 11:02 pm
I still dont get why this Harry bothers to come here…never has anything worthwhile to say or positive…
Jody,
I have noted that several PMO-style commentators here seem to be the first (or at least early) posters on Garth’s comments. While their comments (like most of the PMO-style stuff) are mostly non-sense – you almost have to admire the persistence, until you ponder it a little ….
They must be checking this site constantly. Either they don’t have lives … or they are on the CPC payroll – or likely: both.
“How about making TFSAs tax deductible?” – Nrth, at 10:47 pm last night
Best idea yet, Nrth. Leave the TFSA open-ended so that it includes education, make it tax-deductible, convert RESPs because they no longer are required as a separate entity, and everyone wins (except Flaherty.)
The Government would encourage self-reliance, advertise that cash is good (hi, Rope), and assist individuals in saving for any purpose, including education, rainy day or spending blow-out, and Parliament actually would have accomplished something.
Of course the Government will declare it to be unaffordable, but considering how much individual RRSP contribution room is not used, the new TFSA should fit into the tax shortfall allowed for RRSPs. Many people who are reluctant to put spare cash into a decades-distant RRSP might be more ready to put money into a shorter-term general savings vehicle. Of course, those who don’t earn enough to save won’t profit and the rich won’t need it, but it sure would help the large middle-class in between.
Go for it!
Having just finished helping with post secondary education expenses for three children I wholeheartedly support this RESP plan, even though our family will not derive any benefit from it.
It is critical for the future competitiveness of Canada that we invest in higher education so our young people will have the knowledge and skills to compete in the world economy.
Kudos to Dan McTeague and all of the MPs that supported this very worthwhile piece of legislation.
Now, if we could only get the GST cuts reversed and replace them with significant income tax cuts we could really help low income and middle income Canadians.
Garth: What sacred cows are the Liberals willing to give up in order to fund this program? Surely Mr.Dion must have some game plan but having said that he certainly hasn’t shown any leadership during the past 15 months.Thank goodness we have Jack Layton and the NDP who have shown how an Opposition should work.Trust this will be evedenced once we go to the polls.With the number of NO SHOWS or sitting on their hands that you Liberals have demonstrated recently it shouldn’t be hard for the NDP to reap some of the benefits.
So Catherine, Get your dumb DUTCH mind out of a twist, DOMME VROUW, you know this will be good for even people that don’t have a high income. You are trying so hard with Harry to come up with stupid reasons just because this was not a Conservative idea. Geen wonder that ze je lieten gaan, in Holland.
There is no doubt that the passing of this legislation has embarassed the government because it reveals that the government has lost control over the agenda.
Whether the government can once again bully the Senate into line is an interesting question because if the Senate blinks again it will be suggesting that it serves no useful function as a check on government.
Even although no one in my family would benefit from tax breaks on education savings funds, I believe it is a good idea. Like another comment here I would like to see free post-secondary education but since that is not on the radar screen McTeague’s bill is a step in the right direction.
I suspect that Plan “B” for the government is a visit to the Governor-General. As I indicated before, in my opinion, the passage of this bill was a vote of non-confidence in the government.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080308.RESP08/TPStory/TPNational/Politics/
“Federal Tories who threatened to force an election over the Senate’s protracted study of a crime bill now want the upper chamber to play ball with them in killing an opposition bill that would provide tax relief for parents saving for their children’s education.”
Amazing that the Cons would have the gall to try to curry favour from a group that they have just finished labeling as their enemies.
“The three opposition parties used their superior numbers in the House of Commons on Wednesday to pass a measure that would allow parents who contribute up to $5,000 a year to an education fund to deduct the payment from their income tax. The
Only weeks ago, Prime Minister Stephen Harper gave the Senate an ultimatum of March 1 for the passage of a crime bill that he said had been undemocratically held up. The government forced a vote of confidence in the House of Commons on the matter, which, if it lost, would have meant an election. The government won the vote and the Senate passed the bill in time.”
Amazing what can be accomplished in a minority government when politicians work together for the good of the people.
Dan McTeague was confronted with this question on BNN from the C.D.Howe Institute guy. He said that it isn,t the total answer because it would not be much use to the bottom 20% of Canadians,but would benifit middle income earners the most. A very Liberal and common sense policy that strikes a middle ground. Just what you would expect from a Government that doesn,t pander to the far right or far left. Good show.
By don bool on 03.07.08 10:50 pm
Has any thought been given to the fact the more students who have this plan available, the fewer will have to apply for loans leaving more for the needy.
HARPER RULES,
TURNER DROOLS!!!!!!!
By CPM on 03.07.08 11:35 pm
Ha, nevermind Turner drools (kids are out again I see) I think Harper is probably wetting his pants right now with all the scandals and such.
Too funny – I’d rather drool than wet my pants – call in for depends.
This could be a hail mary pass for Dion, and could be his last chance to save his leadership.Rae must hate Mc Teague for this.Is there a senate doublecross in the works.The street talk is everybody be ready.09 could be moot.
Of course the Government will declare it to be unaffordable, but considering how much individual RRSP contribution room is not used, the new TFSA should fit into the tax shortfall allowed for RRSPs. Many people who are reluctant to put spare cash into a decades-distant RRSP might be more ready to put money into a shorter-term general savings vehicle. Of course, those who don’t earn enough to save won’t profit and the rich won’t need it, but it sure would help the large middle-class in between.
Go for it!By Herb on 03.08.08 8:54 am
While this idea has merit, I believe the RRSPs have one advantage–forced savings…money you think twice about before you take it out. It would take a lot of discipline to not “dig into” your savings, when an opportunity comes up, or the winter gets you down. If I had a few extra thousand I could get my hands on right now, I’d be heading to Florida and saying goodbye to all this snow. But my money is tied up in RRSPs…leading me not into temptation.
Conservatives..avoid the desire to resist…sit back..think about it…take in all in..enjoy the innovation of the clever and contemporary Liberal party.
I am so pleased to be in sync with such an innovative group. I never ever had that satisfaction with the conservatives. It was always about negatives.
so true…..
Too cute by half
Adam Radwanski, 06/03/08 at 4:20 PM EST
In the same Question Period that Jack Layton calls for the head of his chief of staff, Stephen Harper praises the NDP leader for asking good questions.
Naturally, this was in the context of the Liberals not asking good questions. One is left to draw two conclusions:
1.) If the Prime Minister is enthusiastic about questions on the NAFTA leak, and angry about questions on the Cadman affair, that’s a pretty good indication which topic the opposition should be focusing on. (Hint: not NAFTA)
One comment about Dan McTeague was pleased that he had done more than put gas prices on his website. If anyone watched MDL last night they would have seen Dan who has been working for Brenda Martin, a Canadian, who has been in a Mexican jail for two years. Brenda was on the ‘phone to MD and it was heartbreaking to hear how she is being treated. Dan has been down in Mexico trying to arrange her release as the Conservative government have done very little to help. I’m not great with computers so I can’t give a link but if anyone can watch last night’s programme they will understand why I am ashamed that our present government is doing so little to help her. Dan M is doing his best but maybe if hundred or thousands of canadians e-mailed foreign affairs they may move more quickly to help a Canadian in trouble in Mexico.
Anyone FYI:
There are 6 billion people surronding you – here are some thoughts from a bunch of them.
http://6billionothers.com/main.php?Lng=en&File=homePage
Dan M is doing his best but maybe if hundred or thousands of canadians e-mailed foreign affairs they may move more quickly to help a Canadian in trouble in Mexico.
By tricia on 03.08.08 10:10 am
If emailing foreign affairs will help, count me in. Maybe it is time for a petition. Brenda is on suicide watch. Why isn’t the government doing something about this?
Could this be the trouble with the Harper MP Gang?
Aggression on Job More Harmful Than Sexual Harassment.
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hscout/2008/03/08/hscout613334.html
The country the World forgot – again..
That would be Canada!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2002/04/21/do2106.xml
I wonder – how many parents would be willing to pay 1% more GST if it would help the tuition problems? We are losing medical students, for example, to the US because they make more money there so that they can pay off their student loans/debts and we have a shortage of doctors.
Wake up Canada.
Catherine – keeps referring to Drummond. Please, give me a break here. Drummond is a Harper shill. Remember – he backed Baird in the pathetic environment plan. I don’t listen to Drummond – his opinions are not unbiased.
Lana,
the reason your money is tied up in RRSPs is that you have to add any withdrawals to income and pay income tax on them. If you are prepared to do that, you can take out as much as you want to at any time.
The same restriction could be slapped on TFSAs to add an element of “force” if this is considered to be necessary. Naturally there are implications and details to be worked out, but TFSAs could emerge simply as Registered Savings Plans, with only the Retirement “R” dropped from RRSPs.
The rush towards biofuels is theatening world food production and the lives of billions of people.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3500954.ece
Less people on this finite planet could also help.
I heard for every second 5 new people are born, only 2 have die.
Is constant compound growth realy sustainable on a finite planet!
Good snowy day, This of course being a ‘Liberal Bill’ will pass through the Senate with lightening speed. Just watch. Meanwhile; government Bills linger and linger and linger. Leasa
If people didn’t have money to put into RESP’s before, where are they suddenly go to find money now. These have been around for years and they are no good at all if your kids want to apprentice for a trade or just not go on to school.
Well finally folks, Mr. Dion has explained his rational for not calling an election:
“It’s a bad government and we’ll choose a time to defeat this bad government,” he told reporters. “You will see. But it will not be at this time where we have a snowstorm in Ontario and just before Easter. I don’t think Canadians want that.”
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=361309
So now the question is, when will the weather cooperate. If it rains or snows on days major confidence bills comes up no election. If we are nearing a holiday, no election. Now we know. Let’s hope for sunny skies on not near holiday days. Good strategy!
Leasa
By Barb on 03.08.08 9:39 am
This could be a hail mary pass for Dion, and could be his last chance to save his leadership. Rae must hate Mc Teague for this. Is there a senate doublecross in the works. The street talk is everybody be ready. 09 could be moot.
………………………………….
Good point, Barb … and if Dion dares defeat the government soon, his RESP goodies will go down the drain too.
Will Dion try to hold on to his shaky leadership until the Fall Budget, and hoping the economy has gone into recession by then ??
Hopefully parliament will find some time to close the loophole, that will allow minors to import tobacco products into Canada.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/03/07/4937536-sun.html
We should expect speedy Senate approval of this bill – there are probably even a few Conservative Senators who would support it.
Well done Mr. McTeague!
A subsidy program for the wealthy as “essential national policy”? It seems like only yesterday that Dion was targetting poverty as THE major Liberal issue.
By John L on 03.07.08 10:44 pm
John, are you that dense or what? Let’s look at this a little. If I understand the RESP & correct me if I’m wrong Garth, a $5,000 per year up to a limit of $50.000, a personal tax deductible on taxable income for parents in order to help parents save money for further education for their children seems to me a lot more beneficial & sensible than $5,000 TSFA savings account & according to Flaherty’s plan to( take that vacation in Florida)
David 9:12 post, re-read garths post, especially this part.
which spent $5 billion on three new heavy-lift aircraft; which gave Quebec a 34% increase in transfer payments; and cost its own treasury almost $1 billion a year by destroying the income trust sector. Oh yeah, and each artillery shell our guys light up in Afghanistan is worth $150,000, or the entire post-graduate debt of five students.
Tell me David, in your view, is this government spending this amount of tax payers money like drunking sailors on the war in Afhanastan that a large % of Canadians don’t support more benefical to Canadians or monies spent looking out for helping parents save for the future of our young Canadians for Post Secondary School?
Well I know what makes more sense & what I support.
And btw David, the RESP doesn’t benefit me directly either but it does support my grandchildrens education. They are our future. Furthermore, I believe the best investment we can make for our future generation is to offer to all students who want to further their education, FREE POST EDUCATION. For a rich country like Canada, that should be a priority for all polititions.
I know the wording of this post is a little off but just maybe had I had parents who could have afforded my
& my 11 siblings” attending Post Seconday School, I would have done better
Have a great weekend all.
Cheers
RESPs for all
National Post
Published: Saturday, March 08, 2008
We’re puzzled by the federal Conservatives’ apparent opposition to a Liberal private member’s bill that would permit Canadian parents to deduct from their taxable income up to $5,000 a year per child in contributions to Registered Education Savings Plans (RESPs). Sure, the bill is costly, depriving the federal treasury of perhaps as much as $900-million a year, thereby throwing the Tories’ budget into disarray — a bit. But the measure, introduced by Liberal MP Dan McTeague, seems a very (small-c) conservative type of initiative, not unlike the Tories’ popular $100-a-month early childhood care payments. Rather than attempting to use the Senate to block its final passage, the Conservatives should welcome the family-friendly measure and find the money to fund it from some Liberal sacred-cow program.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=361337
Garth, will the govt fall if this bill is passed into law? If this govt falls, will this bill still be passed into law?
This bill make a lot of sense. It encourage parents, grand parents and families to “invest” in their children’s education.
The debate should focus on the potential “return” on this investment over the long haul, and its potential positive impact on the canadian economy and society.
I believe that education is the number 1 priority. For without a well educated population, the country will become left behind in the gloabl race and we will see nothing but sweatshops in Canada.
That’s not the Canada we desire.
All the Senate has to do is propose an ammendment, the Bill goes back to the House, Harper makes it a confidence vote, and we all go from there.
The Liberals are just making up strategy as they go along. There is very little coherence, consistency or costing in the policies you guys throw out, seemingly at random.
For example, go back and read the LPC press release about Dion’s “poverty plan”, and then explain how this Bill fits in with that. And from fighting poverty in December, Dion jumps to spending all the unallocated surpluses to infrastructure.
Garth: What sacred cows are the Liberals willing to give up in order to fund this program? Surely Mr.Dion must have some game plan but having said that he certainly hasn’t shown any leadership during the past 15 months.Thank goodness we have Jack Layton and the NDP who have shown how an Opposition should work.Trust this will be evedenced once we go to the polls.With the number of NO SHOWS or sitting on their hands that you Liberals have demonstrated recently it shouldn’t be hard for the NDP to reap some of the benefits.
By david on 03.08.08 9:12 am
How about the war in Afghanistan? How much of a sacred cow to Canadians is the billions of dollars of expenditures on that war?
By Irene on 03.08.08 11:54 am
Thank you for expressing the feelings of many senior grandparent.
Good snowy day, This of course being a ‘Liberal Bill’ will pass through the Senate with lightening speed. Just watch. Meanwhile; government Bills linger and linger and linger. Leasa
By Leasa on 03.08.08 11:25 am
Cry me a river Leasa. Where’s the help from Harpo for your agricultural problems?
I keep wondering why do low and middle income people continue to support neocon policies when its evident those policies are contrary to their self interest. Just look south. But, maybe that’s all they’re capable of doing. of
Ok Garth, I did some resources checking online considering this and I would like a serious answer, the Speaker ruled this was a legit bill because the opps can propose bills that lower taxes but not increase them. They can lower federal expenditures but not increase them. Fine, would you be comfortable with this scenrio, the next fed election happens and there sits Fin Minister Garth Turner in a minority govt, turning out his balanced budget, the Opps get together and propose a lower of the income tax by 2% which is going to cost 2B in lower revenue. You comfortable with that my friend, oh,, lets add the other piece of this delicious pie. the Senate is controlled by the CPC so it will pass and could through you into a negative monetary position . I am not arguing the bill is not a good one, I am arguing are you willing to give the Opps the power to imposing reduction in your revenue while assuming no responsibility for keeping the govt in a balanced budget situation. I think this is a huge Pandora’s box. If this is such a great idea it should be part of the LPC election program not done this way. Sorry if my sense of fair play helps to interpret the way I see thinks.
When EI shifts from government program to Crown corporation, its $54-billion accounting surplus is going to get lost in the shuffle. The Harper government is cynically wiping this debt to EI stakeholders off the books – though you won’t see any admission of this anywhere in the budget papers. . . .
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.08.08 5:16 am
Either knowingly or unknowingly, this is precisely what Bill Clinton did with the US Social Security System from 1992 on — transferred future retirees’ pension plans, to which MUST be paid into, in order to balance the books to make it look as if the Dems had a surplus. Instead, they have next to nothing, but that was only the first part.
Cue dubya, who comes in under false pretenses, then spends with wanton disregard on a completely fake and illegal war, under the guise of “freedom”.
Only a few months go in a speech he gave, he “joked” about being a dictator for life — not once, but twice, and if there is a pre-arranged “event” going to happen this year, dubya, cheney etc. will do what Putin has now done — move up a step further.
Whether sheeple like to realize it or not (probably not), the US is flat broke; harpo, flaherty and minions are leading us down the same road unless WE, THE PEOPLE make a clear change for a new gov’t.
BTW, I really like Herb’s and another poster’s ideas — first, make the TFSA fully tax-deductible; second, increase increase the GST and put those extra funds toward post secondary education.
Catherine – keeps referring to Drummond. Please, give me a break here. Drummond is a Harper shill. Remember – he backed Baird in the pathetic environment plan. I don’t listen to Drummond – his opinions are not unbiased.
By slg on 03.08.08 10:49 am
SLG , is this the same shrill, that slagged the GST cut over and over on national television and was quoted by the LPC in depth, sorry my maritime friend you cannot have it both ways, he is a shrill or he is not, your call.
For Lana. I sent an e-mail to Helena Guerghis who is supposed to be working on this file. Ms Guerghis was in Mexico a few weeks ago but her intervention doesn’t seem to have been successful so far!
Ah, Leasa has discovered the use and abuse of political power. If she passes the word to her neo-Republican Party, we will be so screwed.
Odd, for the most part clocks turn ahead in many places in the country, benefits most of us.
However the conservatives are regressive and like going back in time.
Much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Just think of it: poor and middle class families can save for their children’s education! That is just so not on… Who will serve the rich?
I think it is a great idea, and many extended families can top up the account of the shining star child willing to go the distance, do the work, earn the PhD and bring the entire family up in the world.
For Cons, that is so not on. Their own children may actually face competition based on intelligence, not mom and pop’s money and social status. Level the playing field? Not a chance.
—-
On that un-Canadian, traitorous MP Geurgis and her outing of Dion and Ignatieff in Afghanistan, and her half-hearted efforts at justice for Canadians:
Helena Geurgis visited Mexico to do lunch with cronies, not visit a Canadian languishing in prison.
Helena Geurgis should be facing charges by the Canadian Military for endangering the lives of our troops called upon to protect the lives of VIPs that Helena Geurgis ratted out to the enemy.
Will anything be done? No. Why? Because people like Guergis got where she is today by something called schmeargelder or a reasonable facsimile.
Sorry if my sense of fair play helps to interpret the way I see thinks.
By KH on 03.08.08 1:01 pm
Sorry, I was with you until this sentence, who do you think you are kidding..lol?
There is a bit of delicious irony with this whole Brodie / NAFTA business. If Barak Obama should become the next US President – and there is still even money or better that he will – his hand will have been forced to reopen and alter the agreement now that he has been so publicly outed. As will even Hillary Clinton, to a lesser degree, should she win. The very thing that Brodie was trying to protect with the leak – the Free Trade Agreement – becomes the sacrificial lamb that gets lost. And the Conservatives have no one else to point the finger at, no blaming it on the Liberals this time as is their unceasing wont to do; ya get to wear this one all by your lonesome.
So, nice work Mr. Brodie. And nice protection for another of your made men, Mr. Harper, but it sounds like if you are to show any modicum of integrity on this matter, may find yourself in a circumstance best illustrated through a paraphrased quote of Jacques Parizeau’s: “You can no more back out of firing Brodie than lobsters caught in a trap“.
If you like the RESP idea, email the Senators and say so!
grafsj@sen.parl.gc.ca; finance@sen.parl.gc.ca; banking_banques@sen.parl.gc.ca; eenr-eern@sen.parl.gc.ca; wattc@sen.parl.gc.ca; shavek@sen.parl.gc.ca; stratt@sen.parl.gc.ca; stollp@sen.parl.gc.ca; stgerg@sen.parl.gc.ca; spivam@sen.parl.gc.ca; smithd@sen.parl.gc.ca; sibnic@sen.parl.gc.ca; rompkw@sen.parl.gc.ca; jcrivest@sen.parl.gc.ca; ringup@sen.parl.gc.ca; prudhm@sen.parl.gc.ca; poyv@sen.parl.gc.ca; poulim@sen.parl.gc.ca; plamom@sen.parl.gc.ca; phaleg@sen.parl.gc.ca; pepinl@sen.parl.gc.ca; pearsl@sen.parl.gc.ca; olived@sen.parl.gc.ca; nolinp@sen.parl.gc.ca; murral@sen.parl.gc.ca; munsoj@sen.parl.gc.ca; moorew@sen.parl.gc.ca; milnel@sen.parl.gc.ca; merchp@sen.parl.gc.ca; mercet@sen.parl.gc.ca; meighen@sen.parl.gc.ca; massip@sen.parl.gc.ca; mahovf@sen.parl.gc.ca; maheus@sen.parl.gc.ca; losier@sen.parl.gc.ca; lebrem@sen.parl.gc.ca; lavigr@sen.parl.gc.ca; charrf@sen.parl.gc.ca; kirbymjl@sen.parl.gc.ca; kinsen@sen.parl.gc.ca; kennyco@sen.parl.gc.ca; joyals@sen.parl.gc.ca; johnsj@sen.parl.gc.ca; jaffem@sen.parl.gc.ca; hublee@sen.parl.gc.ca; hervic@sen.parl.gc.ca; haysd@sen.parl.gc.ca; harbm@sen.parl.gc.ca; gustale@sen.parl.gc.ca; gilla@sen.parl.gc.ca; frasej@sen.parl.gc.ca; forrem@sen.parl.gc.ca; fitzpr@sen.parl.gc.ca; ferrem@sen.parl.gc.ca; fairbj@sen.parl.gc.ca; rokosg@sen.parl.gc.ca; doodyw@sen.parl.gc.ca; dininc@sen.parl.gc.ca; dayja@sen.parl.gc.ca; dallar@sen.parl.gc.ca; cordyj@sen.parl.gc.ca; coolsa@sen.parl.gc.ca; cookj@sen.parl.gc.ca; cochre@sen.parl.gc.ca; chrisi@sen.parl.gc.ca; chapum@sen.parl.gc.ca; carsts@sen.parl.gc.ca; carnep@sen.parl.gc.ca; callbc@sen.parl.gc.ca; buchaj@sen.parl.gc.ca; damphh@sen.parl.gc.ca; bironmi@sen.parl.gc.ca; gautht@sen.parl.gc.ca; Atkinn@sen.parl.gc.ca; anguswd@sen.parl.gc.ca; Ccarnep@sen.parl.gc.ca; senatorcon@sen.parl.gc.ca; pdowne@sen.parl.gc.ca; charrs@sen.parl.gc.ca; edward@ecconway.com; cowled@sen.parl.gc.ca; cliffl@sen.parl.gc.ca; jsteininger@telus.net; mastd@sen.parl.gc.ca; pechem@sen.parl.gc.ca; ahop@sen.parl.gc.ca; mitchg@sen.parl.gc.ca; ASSELA@SEN.PARL.GC.CA; senatornancyruth@sen.parl.gc.ca; tardic@sen.parl.gc.ca
KH: Easy to balance the good of families over the special interests of big gas and oil moguls. Cut the subsidies by 1% to these huge profit takers and voila!! the extra funds are more than available to help families.
By dj on 03.08.08 2:35 pm
Thank you DJ. I emailed them to ask them to please support the RESP initiative.
-R
So Harpo is going to turn to the senate to block this!
Is this the same body that he likes to claim has no legitimacy as a body.
Harpo hypocracy knows no bounds, imagine turning to an unelected body to thwart the democratically elected wiil of the HOC.
Oh by the way, Harry S or Bob R (as you are both the same person) don’t bother commenting as I and many others have no interest in anything you have to say – Move On!
Garth, I get the feeling you don’t like Finn P. very much. I’ve seen him on TVO several times. He has his own sense of superiority oozing out of every one of his well-tended pores. Exactly how he figures he earns his living by “working” for the C.D. Howe institute, I don’t know. That place could disappear tomorrow and the world would only be better off.
Tom Walkom of the Star has a good piece on NAFTA-gate. It has hardly caused a ripple in the U.S. Honestly, they don’t know we’re here, and that’s a good way to keep it.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/326410
Ian Brodie:
“He screams and yells and frequently reduces cabinet ministers to tears. Whatever he wants, he gets,” the source said.
An absolutely perfect definition of a psychopath. Good to have on your side until he turns on you. Be warned! These guys have absolutely no conscience and no empathy. They simply don’t care.
And tax-deductible RESP’s? Brilliant idea. Most parents are willing to sacrifice just about anything to ensure the future of their kids. This just helps them out a bit and also gives grandparents a way to pitch in if they can. The kids won’t remember the new big-screen TV when they get older (as in the Harper/Flaherty 1% GST photo-op), but they will certainly be grateful for not having crushing debt when they graduate.
As a grandparent I think the RESP is a very good idea.
The only concern that I have is if it was that good how come the Liberals who held a majority for 13 years never offered this to canadians. We happen to have missed a comple generation of kids who may have found post education more affordable and not be carrying hugh debt.
On the other hand this is a money issue and it could put some pressure on the existing countries finances.
You cannot criticize the government for out of control spending and then introduce new social programmes that could cost as high as 2 billion according to Don Drummond an economist who worked for Paul Martin.
I think in this case the monkeys are trying to take over and run the zoo.
Yesterday you called MPs pigs. Today you call them monkeys. Show some respect for others, or just buzz off. — Garth
Is this the kind of ‘harmanized’ standard we can expect because Harper signed the secrative SPP deal?
USDA Says It’s None of the Public’s Business Who Ate Recalled Meat.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/08/7554/
Ahhhhh, now I understand.
Even though university and college expenses can be exorbitant these days, this “higher” education is unnecessary, since the “correct” knowledge will be passed on down by a “higher” authority.
Science, mathematics and other intelligent thought is… bad, after all. We should not help in this pursuit.
Stevie, thank you and your Creationists for putting a stop to this potential brain-washing nonsense.
So Catherine, Get your dumb DUTCH mind out of a twist, DOMME VROUW, you know this will be good for even people that don’t have a high income. You are trying so hard with Harry to come up with stupid reasons just because this was not a Conservative idea. Geen wonder that ze je lieten gaan, in Holland.
By maritime defeatist on 03.08.08 9:15 am
It looks like the Liberal Party of Canada is scraping the bottom of barrel when they hired you.
Ha, nevermind Turner drools (kids are out again I see) I think Harper is probably wetting his pants right now with all the scandals and such.
Too funny – I’d rather drool than wet my pants – call in for depends.
By slg on 03.08.08 9:32 am
You must got this idea from your Liberal friend, George Smitherman. So how is your adult diaper testing going? Getting any rashes sitting in your extrement?
You are being lied to: MSM gets owned by early warning on US economic bust.
8 min. video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o
Want to know more about what the IRS realy is all about!
See movie
America: Freedom to Fascism – Director’… 1 hr 51 min – 2007-05-05
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Another kind of look at oil and money.
The History of Oil – Robert Newman
46 min – 2006-09-11
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8957268309327954402
A different view about the way the world is run. 2 hour
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm
or http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
Who is Harper looking out for, you and me??? Does he even care about his own kids future?
What has he done to help us all try and really deal with climate change and it’s implication?
Do you now about peak-oil? Will we all out soon! Are you ready?
What kind of world do you and your family want to live in???
What are YOU doing to help make it happen???
Just the other day, I received a copy of a booklet from my do-nothing backbench Tory MP. The booklet ask “Are You Paying Too Much Tax?” The back of the booklet reads “With Conservatives — GST 5% — you pay less tax.”
Going into the election, the Tory spin will be “We cut your taxes.”
Of course, that’s not quite true. The new RESP lets people reduce their taxes and invest for the future. The 1% GST cut is piffle — they cut the wrong tax.
And if you’re a senior trying to live on your RIF, the Tories have jacked up your future taxes to 30% to 65% of your RIF withdrawals.
“Pay less tax”???? What nonsense.
By the way, is anybody in the foreign relations biz still calling Harper “competent”? I mean, what with the Saudi death sentence and the Obama NAFTA leak?
Stevie, thank you and your Creationists for putting a stop to this potential brain-washing nonsense.
By Robert Gibbs on 03.08.08 4:11 pm
Hi Robert. ‘Owzabout calling it the New World Order, that bunch of creepy reptilian thugs, a.k.a. neo-cons (both sides of the border, plus elsewhere) who like to tell the majority of folk how to live, what they should think of, what they should / should not do, etc.?
Long ago, I saw what these dead drones had become so I decided to completely ignore them. Works for me!
Joke came in this p.m.
Glass 1/2 full or 1/2 Empty?
My wife and I were sitting at a table at my high school reunion, and I kept staring at a drunken lady swigging her drink as she sat alone at a nearby table.
My wife asks, “Do you know her?” “Yes,” I sighed, “She’s my old girlfriend. I understand she took to drinking right after we split up those many years ago, and I hear she hasn’t been sober since.”
“My God!” says my wife, “Who would think a person could go on celebrating that long?”
So you see, there really are 2 ways to look at everything.
BTW, I really like Herb’s and another poster’s ideas — first, make the TFSA fully tax-deductible; second, increase increase the GST and put those extra funds toward post secondary education.
By Charles Oxley on 03.08.08 1:02 pm
Yes, Charles … I agree! Now that we have suddenly discovered the confidence of “going against” the ideological BENT of the Harper government, the whole realm of POSSIBILITIES IS OPEN TO US.
BTW, Have I mentioned, Screw Posh-Man!
By dj on 03.08.08 2:35 pm
Thanks, I copied and pasted and sent them a note to do so to help our children and grandchildren.
Ian Brodie:
“He screams and yells and frequently reduces cabinet ministers to tears. Whatever he wants, he gets,” the source said.
By CM on 03.08.08 3:50 pm
Very SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS. Looking at the guy’s picture, I take away a Limp Dick Scenario. Too bad I can’t be more charitable … He reminds me of Van Gogh, who in his state of depression, cut off his ear. I would be more than happy to accommodate Limp Dick in that regard, or any of the others, for that matter.
The only concern that I have is if it was that good how come the Liberals who held a majority for 13 years never offered this to canadians.
By David Halfkenny on 03.08.08 3:54 pm
This “the Liberals had a majority for 13 years, why didn’t they do….” is wearing pretty thin. Can’t you Cons. think of anythingelse? …. The records stuck…the records stuck, the records stuck…oops here come Milli Vanilli again.
But if my memory serves me right, my eldest being 15, when we first started saving for her education, the RESP program was nowhere to be seen. In-trust acounts, where you had to pay tax on income and dividends every year, where the only viable option.
So it wa the Liberals who introduced the program, the Liberals who gave parents 20% CESG on the first $2000/year/child.
Using your logic, why didn’t Mulroney do it!
That was then, this is today.
Flaherty has come up with his TFSA plan.
One of the uses, he says, is to save extra for education.
So now we have three tax efficient plans, RRSP, RESP, TFSA. As I have previously shown, if your tax rate on making the contribution is the same as when you take the money out, the RRSP and TFSA give you identical dollars. True the TFSA will be more flexible. But if you tax rate is going to be lower at withdrawal, the usual assumption at retirement, the RRSP is the better option to a TFSA.
The RESP however does not have the same “tax efficiency.” Even if you agree with me that the 20% CESG can be considered a tax refund, it only applies to the first $2500 and has nowehere near the same tax benefits of a RRSP or TFSA, even for people in the lowest tax bracket.
If education is so important, why is this government not also looking at making the RESP program more beneficial?
Dan McTeague is trying to make this happen. I think his plan needs the details ironing out, but at least he’s moving us in the right direction.
Same can’t be said for the CPC, or is that the RCP? (Regressive Conservative Party.)
If you like the RESP idea, email the Senators and say so!
By DJ at 2:35 pm
To DJ at 2:35 pm
Thank you for the links to the Senate e-mail addresses – my message has been sent to each one of them – great idea.
So you see, there really are 2 ways to look at everything.
By Charles Oxley on 03.08.08 4:59 pm
Hilarious, and … Halleluiah.
Are there two ways to look at everything?
How can that be? When…
Stevie says “Canadians MUST TRUST” everything he says and does.
GOD BLESS Stephen Harper.
So this could end up costing $900 million a year, the government could easily afford it and take all the credit unfortunately it has blown $1.4 billion in tax revenue due to the take over of income trusts by non tax paying entities, due to its “brilliant” income trust policy.
The Harper government going from one policy disaster to another almost as fast as one scandal to the next.
You must got this idea from your Liberal friend, George Smitherman. So how is your adult diaper testing going? Getting any rashes sitting in your extrement?
By Catherine on 03.08.08 4:29 pm
Really classy, Catherine.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Why the incredible opposition to a measure that will help so many families? – Garth
so why didn’t you propose it as an amendment rather than the thing you weren’t allowed to vote on?
jackasses, all of you.
But if my memory serves me right, my eldest being 15, when we first started saving for her education, the RESP program was nowhere to be seen.
By James- Chatham on 03.08.08 5:28 pm
when my 17 year old was born, I bought one in a shopping centre in Montreal, the company was based in Burlington, ON.
Honestly GORD ON – I don’t think Catherine knows enough to be ashamed of herself. She’s quite pathetic – Oh yawn, she’ll probably call me slug again.
Watch Craig Oliver of CTV’s Question Period tomorrow – there’s a surprise.
A few of the Senator email addresses bounce back. Not sure if those are no longer senators, dead or what but the list was composed last year to send feedback on the Income Trust issue. Just so you know if some come back.
no worries – they can take the money for this out of the SOW, the CBC and the Gun Registry.
Hi Garth:
Just heard Craig Oliver on CTV Newsnet say that tomorrow on his show he will have a longtime Conservative (Craig said “he”) who is going to switch to the Liberal Party.
Lynne
Why don’t all four ‘governments”, Cons, Libs, Dips & Greens, acting as if they were the “government”, just cut our goddamned taxes and we would not even have to contemplate this kind of BS.
TO JAMES FROM CHATHAM
Dan McTaegue has been elected to the house for many years. He had a great opportunity to have this bill passed. It is obvious he could not get the support of his fellow MPs.
You really enjoy being defensive. Again, I will state that I was a card carrying Liberal who nominated my present MP to run in my riding. This person is still in Ottawa and has been elected I think four times. Probably, I am a better Liberal than you. Although, I am not blinded by being partisan. In addition, I am not a walk over Liberal when it is convenient.
So do not label people as cons if you do not know the person or what you are talking about.
I do not have a problem with the RESP bill but after reading several articles I wonder if it is a wiae move at this time when we are told daily by Mr Turner that the economy is going to hell in a handbasket. Can we afford to add a new social program that may cost upwards of $2 billion.
The budget should have been defeated and hopefully we would get a majority government to run the country for a few years without all this bickering.
A strongly worded op-ed piece by a former Progressive Conservative in today’s Winnipeg Free Press: Signs point towards radical Harper agenda
William Neville
Updated: March 7, 2008
During the 2006 general election campaign, Stephen Harper acknowledged the concerns of those many voters who believed he had a secret agenda which would be pursued if the Conservatives won a parliamentary majority. He tried to allay these fears with the rather extraordinary assurance that a Harper majority government would be held in check by a number of institutional constraints. He assured voters that significant checks would be provided by the numerous judges and senators appointed by the Liberals and, not least, by the many senior bureaucrats the Liberals had appointed. In short, the dead hands of a former Liberal government would keep a Harper majority under control.
Considering they have functioned without a majority for two years, Harper and company have been able to do much as they liked anyway; and much of what they’ve liked has had the objective of altering or neutralizing those very institutions he said would constrain a radical Conservative government. With regard to the courts he has, like previous governments, included a fair number of partisans in his judicial appointments. The government has fired shots across the bows of numerous senior public servants and, indeed, threatened or dismissed a number of them. So much for those guardians.
He has tried, repeatedly, to intimidate the Senate. Early on he introduced legislation to “legitimize” the Senate through an electoral process. However, his “solution” showed no awareness of the need to address the respective powers of two elected chambers nor of the relationship between them; nor did it address the anomaly created by a democratically elected Senate with a decidedly anti-democratic distribution of seats. The primary object of the exercise seemed to be to discredit the Senate as, more recently, was his threat that if the Senate failed to meet his timetable on a crime bill, he would treat the matter as a confidence issue and call an election. This latter was a thoroughly specious argument lacking constitutional bases or precedents: in our system, the government is entitled to govern so long as it retains the confidence of the elected chamber, the House of Commons. The Senate has no role in determining whether a government is entitled to govern; and not surprisingly, in the 140 years since Confederation no other prime minister has ever advanced such a bizarre argument.
Moreover, a recent government bill provides additional Commons seats to B.C., Alberta and Ontario. But whereas B.C. and Alberta received additional seats consistent with population growth, Ontario received 10 seats fewer than its population growth entitled it to. B.C. and Alberta are provinces in which the Conservatives see prospects of gains; Ontario is not. How curious. Such obvious tinkering with the distribution of seats in Parliament conjures up the anti- and undemocratic practices of 19th century Canada. Harper preaches democracy but has something else clearly in mind.
If such conduct seems extreme or ruthless, it may appear less so in the wake of the Cadman affair, which may illuminate the lengths to which Harper and the Conservatives were prepared to go — even, possibly, to the point of illegality — to topple Paul Martin’s government nearly three years ago and thereby force an election the Conservatives thought they could win.
In May 2005, Martin’s minority government faced a critical parliamentary vote on its budget. So finely balanced was the House of Commons that the outcome in the end depended on one MP — an Independent, Chuck Cadman, from Surrey North, B.C. According to a forthcoming book, on the day of the vote two prominent Conservatives presented Cadman with a very attractive offer. Cadman’s wife and children, citing Cadman himself as their source, claim the offer was a $1 million life insurance policy. Given that Cadman was dying of cancer, a new life insurance policy would surely have been very difficult to obtain, but one opposition MP has suggested that the “offer” could have involved somehow guaranteeing Cadman’s full parliamentary life insurance benefits after he ceased to be an MP.
Two prominent Conservatives did, indeed, meet with Cadman: Tom Flanagan, Harper’s long-time adviser and friend, and Tom Finley, the Conservative campaign manager. They claim they offered to assist Cadman wage a “competitive campaign” in the election that would follow the defeat of the government. It is hard to imagine assisting anyone to run such a campaign without money being involved, but this explanation also seems improbable: Cadman’s health ruled out any possibility of his running again. Yet Harper, in a taped interview with the author of the book, acknowledges an awareness of the meeting but is reported as saying “the offer to Chuck was only to replace financial considerations he might lose due to an election.” If any offer involving “financial considerations” was made in the context of an impending vote in the House of Commons, its implications are serious and far-reaching. After all, one of the issues in the Mulroney/Schreiber affair is whether offers were made or money changed hands while Mulroney was still a Member of Parliament. Certainly Cadman was.
The facts are not yet all in, but the record to date is increasingly suggestive of an agenda more radical and a level of integrity far lower than seemed probable in the feared “secret agendas” of the past. Increasingly, those sound like the good old days.
wnwfp@mts.net
I read a similar report a few days ago; this one is more comprehensive.
The last few words of the first paragraph pose a question:
Does Goldman Sachs know that a “major interruption” may, or will occur? If so, how do they know beforehand? Is this event already pre-planned?
http://tinyurl.com/3dc4my
So do not label people as cons if you do not know the person or what you are talking about.
By David Halfkenny on 03.08.08 7:15 pm
My sincere apologies.
And I know this will make the previous statement seem hollow, but I will make it anyway. When your opening line is “The Liberals had 13 years, why didn’t they,” then you are using Con rethoric. As a former card carrying Liberal, you should know better than most the true facts of those 13 years. But then again, it is said that former “whatevers” are the worst critics of the remaining “whatevers.”
Personally, I have never been a card carrying member of any political party, and although PMSH and his cronies make me think I should join the LPC, it won’t happen. Why?
I try to look at each issue on its own merits, which is why, if you care to look back, you’ll see that while I think the RESP idea is a good one, it has a lot of rough edges to be worked on.
You’ll also note that I’ve even agreed with Harper twice in the last week.
But I will agree that the Con. budget should have been defeated and we should be in election mode.
As for being defensive, I call it trying to keep true to history. Sometimes I get it wrong, but getting back to the “13 years”, that was then, this is now. Time for this government to govern and time for the official opposition to oppose! Both are playing a game of political chicken!
PJW, I think my friend you will find it extremely hard to find an over the top example of rabid CPC support on my part, I have never denied that I tend to land political as fiscally conservative while still being a strong supporter of social programs that are affordable and not abused.
By give me a break on 03.08.08 6:45 pm
The personal/family RESP with the 20% CESG was not available 15 years ago.
I suspect what you have is a education savings program whereby you contracted with the plan administrators to buy a certain number of units over a given period of time. These were the only thing available back then and I hope you checked the fine print.
I also hope your 17 year old is going to further education, otherwise all you’ll get back is what you put in, no growth, less admin fees (about 18 months of your contributions.)
I was advised not to touch these plans with a barge pole due to their restrictive nature.
As a grandparent I think the RESP is a very good idea.
The only concern that I have is if it was that good how come the Liberals who held a majority for 13 years never offered this to canadians. We happen to have missed a comple generation of kids who may have found post education more affordable and not be carrying hugh debt.
D, maybe Chretien & Martin didn’t think it was important about doing something like that when they were sitting as Prime Ministers. Today we have Harper & he didn’t think it was important either. Too bad, it sure would have helped my children & yours I’m sure. Harper had his chance but instead came up with the TSFA plan instead. If one expects Dion to be held responsible for Chretien & Martin, then you must expect Harper to be held responsible for Brian Mulroney. It’s as simple as that.
And yes, as a grandparent, the RESP is an excellent idea. Too bad it took the opposition party to come up with it.
BTW D. this plan isn’t so new either. As far as I understand, Dan McTeague has been trying to pass this bill for the last 2 years. How long has Harper been PM? 2 years. There is where your answer lies. End of story.
Regards,
By CM on 03.08.08 3:50 pm
(1) An absolutely perfect definition of a psychopath. Good to have on your side until he turns on you. Be warned! These guys have absolutely no conscience and no empathy. They simply don’t care.
(2) And tax-deductible RESP’s? Brilliant idea. Most parents are willing to sacrifice just about anything to ensure the future of their kids. This just helps them out a bit and also gives grandparents a way to pitch in if they can.
(3) The kids won’t remember the new big-screen TV when they get older (as in the Harper/Flaherty 1% GST photo-op), but they will certainly be grateful for not having crushing debt when they graduate.
By CM on 03.08.08 3:50 pm
I would like to comment on these thoughts and observations. I numerated them for easy reference.
(1) Consider History, and studies of current political and social trends as they pertain to leadership. Your statement applies to a wide-ranging number of characters, past and present. Some think the current President of the United States might fit this description. Many would include the Iranian oddball as well. May God help us all. Especially the Children.
(2) Good and caring people do feel this way. Some would very much like to, but simply can’t. This is where the poster, ex teacher is right in my view. Address this issue universally. Apply revenue transference to reducing tuition costs.
(3) They will remember a big screen TV in their house. If they are raised to be materialistic, they will enter the spectrum programmed as such, and will only vary from this due to self-educated desire and or circumstance of life. To be grateful for not having a crushing educational debt, they will have to pass many years, and some heartache. Before this comes to pass, they may have to realize that someone sold their soul before they even knew they had one.
Tricia and Lana:
Re: the very sad case of the two-year imprisonment in very harsh conditions by a local Mexican government of Brenda Martin
There is a web site available for petitions but I don’t know what it is or if there is much cost. If anyone can set this up and let us know, I’m sure lots of people would be only too glad to sign it.
It seems to me that our government should put a ban on travel to Mexico by Cdn. citizens until this has been dealt with. They won’t, of course. It would conflict with their SPP ambitions. I think Cdns. could do it just out of conscience. Mexico leaves a lot to be desired in its justice and policing systems. I wouldn’t go there.
I hope we can do this petition thing.
Two prominent Conservatives did, indeed, meet with Cadman: Tom Flanagan, Harper’s long-time adviser and friend, and Tom Finley, the Conservative campaign manager.
wnwfp@mts.net
By JudyK on 03.08.08 7:20 pm
The author of this article was a little sloppy, as the name of Harper’s campaign advisor is Doug Finley, not Tom Finley.
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/quebec/news/story.html?id=b6db18f2-2485-46e6-b4ff-4b7d4b69891f
All this Liberal gum-beating is all so useless … because Dion will be replaced very soon. Nobody in their right mind within the Liberal party will want to follow him into a general election any time soon.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – this RESP bill demonstrates to all and sundry that the present administration has lost control of the house – the effects of this are – 1 – they can no longer govern as they are, and unless they can form a new admionistration, they must ask the Crown for a dissolution if they are willing to play by the rules – and 2 and this is far more dangerous – their pride is damaged by being shown to be ‘not in control’ – and they will lash out in ways that are illegal, immoral, and quite probably fattening.
Hark back to the aftermath of Stephen harper’s first campaign as leader – his language, verbal and body, showed that all he wants is to get his hands on the cookie jar – nothing else matters to that man – he is the 2nd rate leader of a bunch of 3rd raters who aren’t fit to run a raffle at a church social – they did a number on Ontario when they were in power there, and now they are playing with a bigger canvas – I fully expect that after it all shakes out it will be discovered that the surplus in the EI fund has vanished into a black hole, as did all those advertising dollars not so very long ago.
AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Look at Harry, Van, Marc, CPM, and all the other ConTools squirm. Simply delicious.
CPC totally blindsided – I love it. Finally some financial relief for average Canadians, and all you ConTools can say is how irresponsible this bill is. What’s irresponsible is how Flaberty has completely eliminate any surplus that existed and has now left the budget in such a tight position that any “surprise” that comes along (not to mention the obvious economic storm that is brewing) puts Canada in a deficit position. And here I thought Conservatives were fiscally responsible – silly me.
The absolute piece de resistance however, is how the Cons now have to suck up to the Senate, whom they’ve been bashing and insulting since the Cons squeaked into power, and try to persuade all those fine Senators to defeat this bill. Gee, how do ya’ll think this one is going to turn out for Mr. Harper? If I was a Senator, my response would be “F*ck You bubble head!” Good thing I’m not a Senator.
Harper is going down – all Cons realize this and are hitting the panic buttons and hence the heavy blog postings everywhere. It seems Harper was too smart for his own good.
Thank you CPC for taking this country into a bugdet deficit position after so many years of fiscal prudence as demonstrated by the Liberals. I must say in all honest that Conservatives suck!
Next time you swing voters want to punish the Liberals, remember the lies, deceit, skullduggery, insolence, disrespect and financial ineptitude the Conservatives have demonstrated over these past two years.
Time to raise another pint in honour of Mr. McTeague – a great initiative, and an excellent political maneuver. Well done.
Liz said: Because people like Guergis got where she is today by something called schmeargelder or a reasonable facsimile.
By Liz on 03.08.08 2:00 pm
Schmiergelder was the official name designated under German tax law permitting middlemen to deduct from their incomes bribes or any other payments to foreigners to secure the sale of German products. These deductions were called necessary business expenses. Schmiergelder is translated literally as “grease money”.
Garth, are you going to let this stand? MP Ms. Guergis certainly does not deserve this, if it stands on this board I would like to see proof of this outrageous accusation.
Thank you. Leasa
This bill can have serious consequences that so far, seems to be overlooked on this forum.
This is a money bill that has no account in the buget. The Senate will probably pass this bill very quickly as it is a Liberal initiative. In doing so, the Opposition has effectively taken control of the country’s finances out of the Government’s hands. It is a costly unaccounted for expense, yet the government will be forced to try and cover this sudden expense. This is an issue that the Prime Minister will have to go to the GG and ask to dissolve this government and have an election. He will have no choice. You cannot run a country when you have no control over spending.
If the Liberals were truly sincere about the content of this bill, they would have put it forth for budget in an amendment. Not wait and do it after expenses have been accounted for.
The budget that came out, was very carefully crafted in view of the down-turn in the U.S. If the LP really cared about the well being of this country’s finances they would not have done this, in the manner they did.
Leasa
Oh this is rich. The Cons now begging the Senate to use their good common sense with regards to McTeague’s Bill. But first an apology please. LMAO.
” “I’m waiting for the dozen roses and a little word of apology for not appreciating the good work that’s being done,” Céline Hervieux-Payette joked in an interview Saturday.
Ms. Hervieux-Payette promised the Liberal-dominated Senate will give open-minded, sober consideration to the bill – both its merits and its potential impact on the government’s bottom line – even though some senators may not be inclined to do any favours for a government that has maligned them as lazy, unaccountable, unelected, partisan hacks. -
“If they have put themselves in a straightjacket and they have no margin, we’re certainly not going to take responsibility for that.” EXACTLY
I think its a great idea.The decrease in government revenue will put pressure on future governments to put a lid on spending (ie. massive liberal government daycare)
A few weeks ago, I figured that the verbal diarrhea would heat up, with the US (prodded by Israel) accusing Iran of this, that and the other, all of which is pure bunk.
Seems as if it is getting pretty hot now, as only one country in the Middle East will benefit from an all-out war (if it happens).
Which country it is? Note: This is not a skill-testing question!
http://tinyurl.com/23dqrg
For individuals who look at life through rose-colored glasses, here is a different take on the reality of life.
http://tinyurl.com/25tsup
Warning: If you press “THIS” in the report, it is highly contagious. NNOOOTTT!!
http://tinyurl.com/34e8k6
For Stephen Harper or Jim Flaherty to even hint that there is no money available to fund RESP or any other worthwhile idea is deeply hypocritical after the master scam they’ve pulled on the EI program – pulling out $52 billion and leaving $2 billion to fund future unemployment…just as we’re headed into a recession.
Brilliant boys, those two are!
I’m still sickened by this week’s passing on Second Reading of the Bill C484 especially during the week of International Women’s Day. This is appalling and I’ve had little time for thought on the RESP issue as a result.
PMSH swore to voters that a piece of legislation like Bill C484 would not be brought forward “as long as I have influence.” I guess he’s lost control of the nutbars. Time to bring him down before they take over.
By Rob Wiebe on 03.08.08 3:04 pm
Thanks Rob,one return comment so far supporting my thoughts.
Stop and think………….think……..think…… O/K ready, How proud would you be sitting in the audience attending your son’s or daughter’s convocation. Imagine living a full life and attending a grandchild’s convocation. Less than 5% of worlds population even get a chance at highier education. This ladies and gentlemen, is but a chance for those who wish to give their children and grandchildren a chance. Many will choose bigger fancy cars or sunny vactions but some will choose to invest in their children, even signle parents (many fine poeple have come from a hard working mum who wanted better for the child. This Bill (RESP)is not free gift….It is a chance, use it if you wish, spend your money anyway you want….cut the BS, if y’all were so dam concerned about the poor we would not have food banks and people living the streets….a farging long time ago……….
FYI – one Senator has responded to my e-mail – Sen. Carstairs (LIB) responded from her Blackberry. Now considering it was Saturday evening – that is excellent service! She indicated that she would ‘do her best’ with the Bill.
I too received a few bouncebacks – some Senators not longer there – but, by and large, all other addresses went through like a charm.
Dear Garth,
Yesterday I sent the following letter to ALL of the Senators through the website http://tax-free-resp.blogspot.com/:
A few hours later I recieved the following reply from Senator Sharon Carstairs:
I was mistaken when I said I have been contributing “the maximum” as I have only been contributing $2,000 per year (the maximum amount for a 20% federal grant)
Sincerely,
MB
TO JAMES CHATHAM
Thanks for the comments and I do agree with them entirely.
I find when a critcal comment is made about liberals everyone thinks that you are a conserative.
Poor Leasa and Harry, If the CONs hadn’t screwed up the Income trust situation they would have BILLIONS in additional taxes to help pay for the RESP plan. Instead they destroyed the sector and with it all the income taxes that trust holders USED to pay to the Feds. Now these companies are being sold off, privatized, loaded with debt and zippo goes the the Feds.
So if the Feds don’t have the funds to pay for it look no further than Stephen Harper and Flaherty!
PJW, I think my friend you will find it extremely hard to find an over the top example of rabid CPC support on my part, I have never denied that I tend to land political as fiscally conservative while still being a strong supporter of social programs that are affordable and not abused.
By KH on 03.08.08 7:49 pm
I am happy for you if you are happy, my only point was, it was a gratuitous comment that was unnecessary to make your point, in fact, it would have been stronger without the last sentence.
Garth, are you going to let this stand? MP Ms. Guergis certainly does not deserve this, if it stands on this board I would like to see proof of this outrageous accusation.Thank you. Leasa By Leasa on 03.08.08 10:48 pm
And where is the outrage, or at least concern, about Brenda Martin? Sticks and stones will break our bones, but words will never hurt us.
What has your government done to help Brenda?
Trisha, Pat, and anyone else who is interested.. I found a link to a petition for Brenda Martin. I had to “google” Debra Tieleman to find it.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brenda/signatures-1.html
http://www.ctv.ca has a blog called “Free Brenda Martin NOW!!”
Below is an excerpt from the most recent newspaper article I could find on this travesty of justice. This was published Feb. 3/08. Does anyone have anything more recent?
Ottawa must demand ruling on Canadian jailed in Mexico
Charles Rusnell, Canwest News Service
Published: Sunday, February 03, 2008
“…Tieleman and Cruz are meeting with Helena Guergis, Canada’s secretary of state for foreign affairs, on Tuesday at Guergis’s request.
After months of what Tieleman says was inaction on Martin’s case, Guergis last week travelled to Mexico to lobby top Mexican justice officials for an expedited ruling. Senior Canadian officials also told their Mexican counterparts that Canada was prepared to immediately accept Martin if she was extradited.
Liberal MP Dan McTeague, the foreign affairs critic for consular affairs, said Guergis altered her busy schedule to accommodate the whirlwind trip to Mexico after she learned he intended to visit Martin in Mexico later this month.
McTeague first raised Martin’s case in the House of Commons a year ago and has been pressing Guergis to intervene in the 51-year-old woman’s case. He said he is travelling to Mexico, at his own expense, to maintain pressure on both countries to expedite Martin’s case.
“I am going firstly to assure Brenda that we care about her and will not rest until she receives justice,” McTeague said Saturday. “And I am going out of frustration because the government, until recently, has done nothing to help this poor woman whose legal and human rights have not been respected.”
Guergis did not see Martin during her recent Mexican trip but on Friday she said the Canadian consul general to Mexico visited her for the first time since her incarceration. In a telephone interview Saturday, Martin said she was livid that her case had been effectively ignored by consular officials for two years.
“I said, “You are a little late. You did not look after my basic legal rights. I have spent two years in prison for a crime I did not commit.”
Tieleman said Guergis, and Canada, has an absolute legal right and an obligation to demand an immediate ruling in Martin’s case.
“I want an assurance that Brenda will be released next week,” Tieleman said.
“Canada has to stop pussyfooting around Mexico. They have to take a firm stand and give them an absolute date that this matter will be resolved and explain that there will be repercussions, including a travel advisory, unless that happens.”…”
What has your government done to help Brenda?By Lana on 03.09.08 9:36 am
“Surprisingly, a recent ally of Brenda’s is the Mexican Ambassador to Canada, Emilio Giococchea. Not only has he met with Tieleman, but he’s also visited Brenda in jail and intervened with Mexico’s Attorney General. Brenda feels this is more than Canadian officials have done for her.
W-FIVE wanted to ask the minister responsible for consular services, Helena Guergis, about Brenda’s case. But she repeatedly declined requests for an interview. So our producer tried to talk with her at a public appearance. Guergis did not want to talk prior to the announcement about a children’s sports program, so we tried to negotiate with her press secretary. But to no avail. The Minister didn’t speak with us and she didn’t even make her announcement.
Guergis did rise in the House of Commons recently to insist she has been pressuring the Mexicans to act on Brenda’s behalf.
And just hours before our broadcast W-FIVE received a letter from the Minister. In it she states consular officials have been helping Brenda.
But when reached in jail, Brenda denied the claims made by Guergis that consular officials in Mexico had phoned her or visited her more than 75 times. Reacting to those claims, Brenda said, “I just can’t believe that…Helena Guergis has the gall to say what she’s said in that letter.”
Two years after her arrest, Brenda Martin remains in jail and still has not been convicted of any crime. “
All this Liberal gum-beating is all so useless … because Dion will be replaced very soon. Nobody in their right mind within the Liberal party will want to follow him into a general election any time soon.
By Harry S on 03.08.08 9:27 pm
I’d say you are the biggest gum beater of all!
Lana, thanks so much for the petition for Brenda.
Garth,
Please tell Canadians what the government should cut to pay for this tax-break for the rich? It is reported that it will cost between 900 million and two billion?
Its ok Garth I don’t expect an answer from you> You seem to avoid tough questions. I have still not got answers from you on the following:
You constantly warn everybody about how the economy is going to crap but never offer solutions. Specifically what does the LPC recommend to avoid this “downturn”?
I asked you if you support the fact that LPC supports terrorist groups? ie: Tamil Tigers, Sikh extremists, Hezbollah, anti-semitism at the Leadership convention,…
I find it funny that you pillor PMSH for not givng answers but you run from giving answers also. Hypocricy?
Its ok Garth I know you won’t answer. Cowards never do….
Actually, the entire RESP break – whatever the cost – could have been paid for with the tax revenue Jim Flaherty threw away with his disastrous income trust fiasco. Or, along with income-splitting for every family with children, it could have been paid for with the last 1% GST cut, and there’d still be money left over (a couple of billion) for infrastructure or the environment. Speaking of cowards, why not post your name? I thought you Calgary guys had balls the size of bulls. — Garth
By Leasa on 03.08.08 11:07 pm
The Hyper Partisan Queen rides again!
Spoken like a true neo-con. As usual, except for your folksy chats or motherhood statements , (obviously to create the illusion that you are really a “nice” person) you haven’t said anything that other CPC hacks haven’t already said. When are you going you add something profound of your own?
Jeff: Would you include Jason Kenney and his wonderful speech bringing highest regards from P.M. Harper to the acknowledged terrorist group from Iran?
He said he didn’t know who they were??
And the Cons , Jim Abbott and Nina Grewal who supported the parade that honoured those Sikhs who were allegedly responsible for Air India?
I hope you have e-mailed Mr. Harper and questioned him about his chosen few supporting such terrorist groups???
Garth,
Please tell Canadians what the government should cut to pay for this tax-break for the rich? It is reported that it will cost between 900 million and two billion?
Its ok Garth I don’t expect an answer from you> You seem to avoid tough questions. I have still not got answers from you on the following:
You constantly warn everybody about how the economy is going to crap but never offer solutions. Specifically what does the LPC recommend to avoid this “downturn”?
By Jeff on 03.09.08 11:09 am
Jeff; for one thing, the RESP Bill has nothing to do with supporting the rich but giving options & incentives to families with children who plan to attend Universities etc. BTW, Dion is the opposition leader, not the PM so ask Harper what program he will have to cut to make room for RESP. His government is the one who has been spending like there is no tomorrow & has put us in the situation we are in. If it were up to me, I would cut the TSFA program that really does help the rich more than the middle class families That my friend would be MY answer as I see it.
I asked you if you support the fact that LPC supports terrorist groups? ie: Tamil Tigers, Sikh extremists, Hezbollah, anti-semitism at the Leadership convention,…
************************
Jeff; that is the most stupid question anyone could ask. No government regardless of its party, yours included support Tamil Tigers or any other extremists’ party
for that matter. Get your facts straight.
************************
I find it funny that you pillor PMSH for not givng answers but you run from giving answers also. Hypocricy?
***********************
Jeff; look at yourself to see who’s the Hypocrite
The conservative have estimated that the cost factor to run this program would cost between 900 million & two billion dollars. That’s a big discrepancy between those two estimates so please explain Jeff if you can. Tell us where you believe your party came up with those figures. Someone on this forum estimated that there were 50,000 who would benefit for the RESP. I think that number IF it is accurate, is that probably less than 20 to 30% out of those 50,000 would NOT attend Universities. Heck, quite a lot of those in that estimation assuming its correct would probably not even graduate from high school. That is sad in this day & age but that is a fact.
Jeff, I think the PMO should be the place to go for the answers you seek. They are the governing party & that’s their job.
Cheers
This is a tax dodge for the rich. Low income persons can not put away thousands of dollars each year for their children. Strange that Liberals are supporting such an extravagant tax avoidance system for the high income earners in this country.
This is a tax dodge for the rich. Low income persons can not put away thousands of dollars each year for their children. Strange that Liberals are supporting such an extravagant tax avoidance system for the high income earners in this country.By MJH on 03.09.08 2:10 pm
What is strange, is your take on this. It will benefit many lower-to-middle-income families, and as someone else suggested here, it may open up more opportunities for low income families to take out a student loan. Contributions to the TFSA are not deductible from taxable income. Whom do you think TFSA benefits the most?
Dear MJH,
Any parent/guardian who CARES about their child’s future will take advantage of this tax deductible RESP.
You are correct when you say that the lowest income earners in Canada will likely not benefit DIRECTLY from this tax deductible RESP, but, as another poster said, there will be MORE EDUCATION GRANT $$$ AVAILABLE to these low income earners becase…
Mid-level income earners will have PILES OF MONEY SAVED for their child’s education and will no longer be eligible for grants!!!
Do you think you might be able to use this tax deductible RESP MJH?
Please advise.
Sincerely,
MB
Lana, thanks so much for the petition for Brenda.By Molly on 03.09.08 10:56 am
Molly, I just heard on CBC today that Brenda is now in hospital. I hope something is done for her before it is too late. I have vacationed in Mexico, but after this fiasco, I doubt I ever will again. (I even have a Mexican son-in-law, and he is up in arms about this too).
Apparently all that is needed is a diplomatic note.
Here is the latest news. (This is long, but I had trouble with the link. (I am link-challenged).
Note to Leasa–perhaps you could persuade your good friend Helena to do her job.
Canadian detainee in Mexico hospitalized
Charles Rusnell, Canwest News Service
Published: 12:15 pm
Mexican prison authorities have removed Canadian Brenda Martin from the general prison population and hospitalized her under 24-hour guard to ensure she does not kill herself.
“They took her out of her cell on Saturday and she is extremely heavily sedated,” said Martin’s childhood friend, Deb Tieleman, who has led the campaign to have her released.
Martin’s already tenuous condition worsened after Mexican court officials Friday reneged on a promise to rule on a constitutional challenge to the charges that have kept her in a Guadalajara prison without trial for more than two years. Martin had previously been placed on a suicide watch inside the prison.
Tieleman said Martin, 51, is so heavily drugged she is barely coherent.
“I spoke to her on the phone and she sounded like a zombie, like she wasn’t there,” she said.
A Feb. 22 e-mail, obtained by the Edmonton Journal, shows Mexico’s Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa had promised Helena Guergis, Canada’s secretary of state for consular services, a decision on Martin’s case would be rendered Friday. Canada had been assured there was a two-month deadline, which was Friday, for issuing the ruling.
But, as it turned out, Mexico’s courts were closed on Friday for a holiday.
“How on top of this file is Guergis if her office didn’t even know that the courts were closed Friday?” Tieleman said.
Tieleman, and Liberal consular services critic Dan McTeague have repeatedly called on Guergis to issue a diplomatic note demanding Martin’s release due to breaches of her legal and human rights. Guergis told Global National Friday that a number of diplomatic notes had already been sent to Mexico.
McTeague doesn’t believe Guergis understands what constitutes a formal diplomatic note.
“I met with the Mexican ambassador last week and he was unaware of any diplomatic notes and he would be,” McTeague said.
Guergis also told Global National she is prepared to return to Mexico to put more pressure on Mexican authorities to expedite Martin’s case. She travelled to Mexico City and Guadalajara in January for a series of meetings with officials, including that country’s foreign minister and attorney general.
Martin, a former native of Trenton, Ont. was employed as a chef by a former Albertan, Alyn Waage, in Puerto Vallarta for 10 months in 2001. Posing as a successful businessman, Waage was actually operating what is believed to the be one of the largest Internet based fraud scheme in history. He bilked 15,000 investors worldwide out of about $60 million.
Waage was eventually arrested and is serving a 10-year sentence in an American prison. Five years after Waage’s arrest, Martin was picked up by Mexican police and charged with money laundering and being part of a criminal conspiracy. Although Waage provided a sworn affidavit stating that Martin had no involvement in, or knowledge of, the scheme she has remained in jail since Feb. 17, 2006.
Martin’s new lawyers from Canada say there is no evidence in the court record to support the charges and they say her rights under Mexican and international law were violated because she was never provided with a proper translator.
In an interview late Saturday, Martin said she had been assessed by a psychiatrist at the request of the prison warden. She said the psychiatrist recommended she be hospitalized.
“I can’t deal with this anymore,” Martin said. “I don’t want to live anymore.”
Tieleman spoke with the Mexican ambassador last week. He told her there is a federal prosecutor in Guadalajara who will not let go of the case.
“The government needs to issue a strong diplomatic note so Brenda’s case is taken out of the courts and made a political issue. If they don’t, she will die in that prison and she is innocent.”
Lana:
Thanks for your petition for Brenda. I have signed it and somehow my comments got in there twice. How annoying for the readers.
Thanks too, for your latest post. I saw Mike Duffy’s program the other night and spent about two hours trying to find updated information which would confirm who had said she would know that day of the decision to let her free. CTV had a video on their broadband but I couldn’t get it.
It’s really heart-wrenching to learn that she is in hospital. I understood that her mother is gravely ill and Brenda wanted to see her. She is obviously in a very dangerous state now.
Thanks Molly and Trish and everyone else who took time to try to help this poor soul.
When are you going you add something profound of your own?
By Gord on 03.09.08 1:11 pm
Hi Gordie baby, Something profound?
Gordie, don’t you just love this country of ours? With all our freedoms, we can come onto blogs like this and say anything we want and not have to account to anyone. Great eh? Especially, people like you and I. I am not a public servant of any kind. I don’t have to account to or speak for any political party. We’re free as birds Gordie. Like, I could tell you to go f**k yourself, and no one would care! But, I don’t, because that would be ‘smutty’ and it would upset you. ON the other hand…maybe you should consider yourself told? Take your pick. LOL
Profoundly speaking, Leasa
So now that some of us can finally afford to put money away for our childrens’ education, can something be done about the Income Trust fiasco that stole our menial savings on that horrible halloween harvest?
Please, please, I could really use the money we lost. Thanks.
You want to talk about a war on the family. What about the liberals not supporting raising the legal age of consent. Cited: http://www.reclaimingtheology.blogspot.com
Like, I could tell you to go f**k yourself, and no one would care! But, I don’t, because that would be ’smutty’ and it would upset you. ON the other hand…maybe you should consider yourself told? Take your pick. LOL
Profoundly speaking, Leasa
By Leasa on 03.09.08 4:41 pm
This time the Hyper Partisan Queen rides touting her smuttiness and with her foul mouth clearly on display.
The real foul-mouthed Leasa shows up again. Such an outburst simply because I pointed out you were toeing the party line. You obviously know the party line all too well and your knowledge of the party talking points is suspiciously current.
Am I upset? Hardly. On the contrary I rather enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself. The more you keep your true colors highly visible, the better. This tends to erode your credibility even more.
You can call me anything you like if you insist on repeatedly degrading yourself and damaging the illusion that you really are a nice person.
Interesting that you should bring up “smutty” again since, as far as I can determine, you are the only one on this blog who cheapens herself by making overt sexual overtures with lewd reference to the male genitalia. Many others, both male and female, have used the expression “balls” as the figurative vernacular for intestinal fortitude, something which is quite acceptable in our present society. You, on the other hand, are the only one who chose to cheapen herself by putting her sexuality on public display. Is there something lacking in your upbringing? Or do you have some secret agenda? If so, is your husband in on it?
Not nice, Leasa, not nice.
Thanks Molly and Trish and everyone else who took time to try to help this poor soul.By Pat. G. on 03.09.08 4:22 pm
I received an email about more ways to help Brenda Martin. You can send the following in an email to all your friends and family.
Please sign the petition which will be forwarded to parliament and please write to your local MP as well as Helena Guergis, the Prime Minister’s office and to Dan McTeague who has tried to champion Brenda’s cause for some time in the House of Commons. We are hoping he will be able to use those letters to prove to the government that Canadians have not forgotten about Brenda and we expect them to act immediately.
Send a letter to the editor, the Mexican Embassy, whatever you feel you can do is so greatly appreciated!
Call Foreign Affairs 613 995 1293 or fax the Prime Minister’s office at 613 941 6900 (couldn’t find a tel #). Let them know we are watching.
Prime Minister Harper pm@pm.gc.ca
Helena Guergis Guergis.H@parl.gc.ca
Stephane Dion Dion.S@parl.gc.ca
Dan McTeague McTeague.D@parl.gc.ca
Mexican Embassy in Ottawa info@embamexcan.com
Mexican Ambassador Goicoechea egoicoechea@embamexcan.com
To view Brenda’s story please visit
http://www.ctv.ca/wfive
Mike Duffy interviews Brenda Martin after her decision is again postponed:
http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/sbplayer/Docs.html
——- FORWARD THIS TO YOUR FRIENDS ——-
Hi,
I wanted to draw your attention to this important petition that I recently signed.
“Free Brenda Martin Now”
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/brenda?e You can ignore the voluntary donation to Ipetitions and it will still post your name and comments.
I really think this is an important cause, and I’d like to encourage you to add your signature, too. It’s free and takes less than a minute of your time.
Thank you so much from the friends, family and supporters of Brenda Martin
http://www.savebrendafund.ca for more information or to contribute to her legal costs
By Lana on 03.10.08 7:30 am
A very sad story indeed. Hopefully our government will become pro-active this week if the issues are not resolved.
CTV and Mr. Duffy have done a good job bringing this to the forefront at this point in time. Too bad it took so long.
Garth,
Bravo…Bravo…Bravo!!!
As a young graduate, recently out of College i can attest to the magnificent implications this will have for students in the future. Growing up my parents were low bracket income earners who were unable to sack away loads of money to benefit my education in the future. However, the assumption this bill only helps the rich is absurd. My parents could have easily sacked away 20-40$ a month over the course of my lifetime. $40 a month over 18 years is $8640 and thats without any government top up or gain. Imagine what that could look like for me if you calculate some gain and government top up. That right there is easily a year’s tuition from a low bracket income earning family. Rather than entering the workforce paying student loans back at 4.30% for an over inflated education system that is increasingly becoming less and less affordable and providing an inferior education. Make no mistake our University and College system is segregated from rich and poor.
Many people do not understand the implications of carrying financial debt going into school. Often students are forced to choose between eating and paying a bills. School is incredibly expensive and our outrageous tuitions are only the beginning. As our provincial and federal governments starve our universities they begin to feed upon the students with fees that make things even more challenging. Students often exit school with a ton of debt and for many a gastly credit rating. Our credit system is not geared towards the student. Now obviously the easy answer is to not take on debt while in school. However, myself and others like me returned to school at 20-22 and had tasted the workforce and as such acquired debt. I was presented with the choice of attending school and struggling to manage my finances or continuing on working with no prospective hope for the future.
Oh and did i mention i was initially denied a student loan because i owned a car worth $4000. So on top of everythign i was expected to give up my means of transportation to “beg” the government, of sorts, to finance my education.
Way to go Liberals, i almost hope the Harper fights you more on this as i feel he is itching to commit political suicide.
Jamie, MB
I have five children, and presuming this bill turns into policy I will use it to the maximum allowed.
I want it paid for by scrapping the utterly useless gun registry.
Hi Lana, Helena Guergis was on Mike tonight. She is doing everything humanly possible to get this woman home. She has met with the Mexican authorities several times on Brenda’s behalf. She is as frustrated with this situation as you and the rest of us are. She said if she could bring this woman home today, which is what she wants, she would. She said she cares very much about her. She has been working on it all along.
We’ve had a few suspicious deaths in Mexico. It is a country that is run by organized crime and it is very dangerous. Perhaps, it should give us great pause when deciding where to vacation or work. The cheap living costs and cheap vacation are in my mind really not worth the risk.
**********
Hi Jamie,
Over the last 20 years I have employed I would guess around 200 university students spring to summer. Most of these kids were from lower income families. Most worked for me every year from the first year of school until finish. By the time the summer was over they had earned about $7K. All of them had student loans. Some of them partied every weekend, I remember one who met a girl he was head over heels in love with. He rented a $700. a night hotel room complete with butler to impress her. (I guess it did, she later married him)
The kids who had their parents give them everything, were the ones most likely to quit school because they didn’t make the grades. They didn’t want to work for it, they were used to everything being handed to them.
Everyone has to go through a period of life where they must scrimp and scrape to make a go of it. We all ‘do without’ at one point. Things that you have to work for, are the things in life you appreciate the most. I’ve known kids who did have huge, giant loans when they were done school and they worked their butts off to pay them back. It seemed to me, the kids from the poorest families ended up being the most successful.
So what if you have a loan? So what if you eat kraft dinner for a few years? You really want to walk into your dream job with no financial responsibility? That is not how life works.
Oh, by the way…even with the higher education, you will still have to start at the bottom and work your way up. The question is, do you have what it takes?
In this country we give you a completely free education for 13 years. I’d say, that’s a pretty good start.
Leasa
Leasa, the following is an example of comments I’m reading on many blogs about Brenda’s plight. No one but you has been defending Helena (so far). These are not my comments…they are a quote of someone else’s comments. Note I do not call her incompetent. I do wonder, however, why Helena didn’t visit Brenda when she was 20 minutes away from her.
“Below – the Hansard from Tuesday’s HOC Question period.
Let’s hear it for Dan McTeague (Pickering—Scarborough East, Lib.)!!!
Helena Guergis ??? I still contend – her incompetency knows no bounds.
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!!!!!!!
Hon. Dan McTeague (Pickering—Scarborough East, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, Brenda Martin, an innocent Canadian, has been languishing in a Mexican prison for two years. The Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) recently made a quick trip to Mexico, where she apparently met with those responsible for this matter. However, the minister confirmed that she was unable to visit Brenda, but that she did have the time to meet with Canadian expatriates at a reception in Guadalajara, located just 20 minutes from the prison.
Could the minister explain how she found time to attend the social gathering but could not make time to visit this innocent individual, Brenda Martin?
Hon. Helena Guergis (Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport), CPC):
Mr. Speaker, pretty much everything that the member said with respect to Ms. Martin’s case is wrong, so let us be clear. I have worked very hard, as has this government, on behalf of Ms. Martin.
There are 13 Canadians in Mexican prisons, so when I was in Mexico meeting with its foreign minister, its human rights commissioner and its attorney general, there were other cases that had to be talked about, because each and every Canadian is just as important to us as the next one. The hon. member might want to consider that.
Also, if I could point this out to him, with respect to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and in accordance with international practice, Canada cannot intervene in the justice system of another country. Those are his words.
Hon. Dan McTeague (Pickering—Scarborough East, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, the minister’s ineptitude on this case is such that she has been reduced to scurrying out of Canadian Tire stores to avoid TV cameras tracking her down for a long requested interview.
Why is the minister unable to provide Brenda Martin with any concrete information on her supposedly high-level efforts to gain her freedom? Why is the minister refusing to take Brenda’s phone calls? Why did the minister abandon Brenda Martin for some consulate canapés and Perrier when she was just a few minutes away and could have gone over there?
Why is she not standing up for innocent Canadians? Why the ineptitude on that side of the House?
Hon. Helena Guergis (Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport), CPC):
Mr. Speaker, Canadians are really growing tired of that member’s ambulance-chasing tactics. He stood in my shoes and he knows exactly what I can and cannot say with specific details of cases and what has been done for a constituent. It is the privacy law. He has been quoted saying it himself many times.
With respect to Ms. Martin, we have worked very hard and we will continue, because she is a very important Canadian to us. I can tell the hon. member that I did of course speak with the foreign minister, the attorney general and a total of 16 senior officials in discussing her case and those of the other 13 Canadians in Mexico.
Leasa,
I applaud you for helping struggling students during their College / University years; however, the point i’m making you comletely missed. Yes! I am a better individual for the work i put in, i graduated top of my class…with honors. All of that while working 30 – 35 hours a week in the evenings and weekends as a server and bartended. I proud myself on my accomplishments and the lessons and education i acquired during my years in school.
How anyone could even attempt to rule something like this as a vehicle for the rich is completely beyond me. As an indiviudal I am ashamed of what is happening in the House of Commons. I am ashamed of my government for turning everything into partisan politics. Mr. McTeague worked hard on this bill and it brings to the forefront a non partisan initiative that SHOULD be supported by all parties in the house.
Tell me Leana were you one of the “rich kids” who dropped out of school or had their parents give them everything. I think you must be because no “poor” kid having been through any current education mess would tell another student to “suck it up” of sorts. I hold no resentment to well of families. Good for them, they accomplished things. People should not be hated for having money. But those without should not be discriminated against. The point is that while some can afford to pay for their education others can’t. And those who can’t are often faced with wall after wall and barrier after barrier. My example about having to sell my vehicle to qualify for a student loan proves this point. It’s almost like thanks but your not quit poor enough though. Oh and while your at it why don’t you go sell your clothes? You’ve got too many of them as it is.
Garth…don’t let these fools ruin the most innovative initiative in years. This honestly will affect people of all levels. I’m tired of politicians making good things into silly bickering.
With Respect Garth,
Jamie from Manitoba…no shame in what i write.
Hi Jamie,
Don’t mind Leasa. She just drones on here about anything that might make the Liberals look good. She is one of the resident neo-con trolls and, I suspect, has some very close connection with the CPC’s. How close is hard to tell.
When my son went to university, we were going through a rough patch and he did what he had to, to manage, including getting money from going to Med-check to test mouth washes every morning before school, going into some kind of a airplane or rocket simulator (which made him very ill), sold flowers on corners, rebuilt lawn mowers and sold them, had a deck-building business and sold computer-made signs to restaurants which had shoddy signs. He did telephone soliciting. He earned enough to buy a motor scooter and used this to get from Mississauga to York U. Then, we were able to get him and my daughter second hand cars. My daughter was taking an E.C.E at Sheridan and had to lug a lot of stuff around on her field work.
Was this all good for them? Yes, to some degree. But sometimes it interfered with their ability to get their homework done and they were susceptible to illness. My son had a six-month illness throughout which he maintained his school work. I didn’t find out ’til later he had been ill. He didn’t want to worry us.
Just how punishing should getting an education be? Obviously I don’t think everything should be handed to kids on a silver platter but there’s a limit to what rational people should expect of them–especially in a wealthy society.
Good for you and congratulations on your accomplishments. One thing that you’ve learned from experience is to have some empathy for others. This is one of the most important things you will learn in life.
With Respect Garth,
Jamie from Manitoba…no shame in what i write.
By Jamie on 03.11.08 12:25 pm
Good for you, Jamie! Nothing like hearing it from the horse’s mouth. Let’s hope this goes through. My granddaughters are working part-time jobs while going to high school to help pay for their University education. Their parents are doing without so their children can get a decent education. I wish I had been able to do that for my children. With the RESP, I could help out a bit for my grandchildren.
Thanks for your input.
Lana & Pat
Thank you for words of support. It is well intentioned individuals who hold the most power in our society. Unfortunately all of the well intentioned individuals are not members of our government.
In a world where we are soon to be experiencing major short falls in skilled workers. You would think that enabling young individuals to be more than they could be would be a top priority of any government concerned with the electorate more than their desire for power.
Its tough to watch the news and see Jim Flaherty smile like “a kid who just graduated from university” because he’s squashing the hopes of families who wish to see their kids one day smile like that.
Time for an election i think.