Well, just as predicted.
On Monday afternoon, angry little Jim Flaherty stood in the House of Commons, called last week’s decision by MPs to enhance RESPs an “American-style” move and swore that his government would act to quash this, “very shortly.”
If Mr. F. has his spiteful way, he and the prime minister and the gang sitting behind them will dash the hopes of families who – for a brief few days – saw a light of financial hope shine. Gone will be the ability to get a meaningful tax break while saving for their kid’s college education. Vanished will be a chance to improve family cash flow and receive the first meaningful tax break since this government came to office. Back again will be the reality, and drag, of crushing debt for our graduates.
Immediately, it likely means this: On Tuesday the finance minister will introduce a Ways and Means motion paving the way for implementation of his latest budget. Attached to that bill, will be a provision which rescinds or nullifies or otherwise nukes the RESP legislation the Commons passed last week and which is now down the hall at the Senate, a breath away from life.
As you may know, Liberals decided two weeks ago the current budget was such a yawner it wasn’t worth toppling the Harper government over. We let the first budget votes pass without a fight. But now, it’s all changing. The Harper government, itching for an electoral battle before the economy implodes, has seized upon the RESP issue to draw yet another line in the sand.
As I wrote on the weekend, the Conservatives hate this initiative. It makes their new tax-free savings plan look useless and contrived. It provides a substantial benefit to middle-class families, whose vote Mr. Harper thinks he owns. It demonstrates that MPs in a minority Parliament actually have more clout that all those ministers with their limousines and chauffeurs. And Canadians love it, a Liberal idea.
Tonight in the House, after I discussed this at length with my colleagues, I leaned behind me and asked Dan McTeague for his thoughts. He’s the GTA-area MP who fought for this RESP bill for the past two years, and lobbied enough support to get it passed. I handed him a pad of paper from my desk. A few minutes later, he handed it back.
He wrote, “As the triple matters of Brenda Martin, gasoline prices and the passage of my RESP bill continue to swirl through my head, I can’t help but think a great number of issues, important to Canadians, are being lost on this government.
“It would be one thing to argue the distorted facts the Cons purvey but, frankly, their indifference and arrogant dismissal of key issues is disturbing.
“I get the sense today, more than ever, that we have savvy, sincerity and chutzpah to takes these pretenders on.
“The bigger they are. The harder they fall.”
So, this motion we’ll see tomorrow, likely coming to a vote on Thursday, will be designed to force Liberals to eat themselves. Those, like me, who voted for the RESP bill will forced to stand aside and see it swept away, or step up and give Mr. Harper the election he clearly wants. The Conservatives are doing this fully aware there are four by-elections on Monday, all of which they’ll likely lose. They fear the momentum which will be caused on March 31st, when new Liberal MPs are marched into the Commons. It will be harder to called Stephane Dion “not a leader” when he has just handed them their ass.
So, what should the strategy be this week? Vote for the RESP bill which middle-class Canadians so clearly want – the kind of reform which brought me back to Ottawa? In doing so, should we risk giving the Conservatives an election at the wrong moment, a time of their choosing? Should we bite our tongues, sit on our hands, and await the better day to sweep away Mr. Harper? Is this a time for principle or strategy? Or is it simply the instant at which an untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer?
Stay tuned.
275 comments ↓
I just wanted to offer my support for your bill that was recently passed in the House of Commons and now is in danger of not being implemented. This bill represents the kind of progressive ideas that are missing from our current government. What better way is there to spend our tax dollars than on our kids?
It may to time to “pull the plug” on this government.
Mario
The Conservatives may think they make the rules on this one, but the voters will show them how the game is played.
Bring on an election. Mr. Flaherty will have a wicked time facing his constituents on this one on voting day.
His constituents just have to be shaking their heads.
Just what exactly do the Harper /Flaherty Conservatives stand for anyway?
While i agree that this is the right thing to do – and it would have been a nice thing to have when i began university, I think it is very irresponsible for the Liberals to force such a costly Bill through at this time.
‘It demonstrates that MPs in a minority Parliament actually have more clout that all those ministers with their limousines and chauffeurs.”
Recent survey on financial availability of RESP to Cdns.
Under or at poverty line, with or without children, 0
Poverty to bottom middle class, WO children, 0
Middle class with children, 12% WO children 18%
Boomers and retired boomers 64%
Parliamentarians, 100%
24 months and little or no work done
Source, Mr. Rope? — Garth
Why is this still the government? WHY IS THIS THE GOVERNEMENT?!
Why is it that my party, the Liberal Party of Canada is no just a rubber-stamper to whatever the Harper Government wants? Get the bums out, please!. The Liberal Party has never needed an acknowledgedly, rotten to the core government to defeat it, Whta’s the problem. Pull the plug, PLEASE!!!!!
Mack
I think that if the Liberal Party does not vote against the Ways and Means motion this week then when the next election finally comes the multi-million dollar war chest of the Conservatives will be beating the drum on one message: too afraid of the consequences to stand up even for one of their own motions. Like it, lump it, hate the timing or whatever, it’s time to act.
24 months and little or no work done
Source, Mr. Rope? — Garth
By Nero Fiddles on 03.10.08 8:53 pm
The 5 points are on the Conservative web site.
Oh, a credible source! Well then, we surrender. — Garth
Garth: All four of those ridings were held by the Liberals and therefor should easily be won by them again correct?No mean accomplishment by any stretch of the imagination.So what will you do on Thursday Garth…sit on your hands again?You can be sure Jack Layton will be standing tall(like the real opposition should)Will seven,eleven or NO Liberals show up??
There have been PLENTY of issues to fight the election on and all we keep hearing in Canadians don’t want an election right now.
Maybe you guys are talking to the wrong Canadians!
If Flaherty wants to tie this to the budget it is time you guys SHOWED UP and VOTED to bring the buffoons down. Fighting the election on this and the other issues is worth it.
Quit hiding behind excuses.
Garth,
This bill must pass!! I don’t even have kids and I think this is a good idea. If the Liberals kill their own bill, then you will definitly lose all votes you’ve gained with this bill…And judging from what I hear and see around work, many people love this bill, as most of my co-workers do contribute, not the max, but every bit helps….Garth, please tell Dion to vote FOR this bill…It would cost the CONS the election for sure…
This is the issue!!! Only the true clapping seals would vote against this, no REAL Canadian would oppose such a measure, unless truly selfish…
Garth, the deductible RESP is a good measure, the Party knew what it was doing and how Harper would react. Don’t you dare strike up the Hesitation Waltz!
Heard dim jim on CBC this p.m.; said that “. . . we have a responsibility to Cdns.”. . . (hah!).
Damn right they have a responsibility — to vacate immediately, if not sooner — all their seats in Parliament.
Flush the toilet — pull the plug and let people decide.
GET RID OF THESE POWER-HUNGRY WAR-MONGERERS FOR ONCE AND ALL.
———————————————————————————–
Further Cadman adventures. CRAP says Cadman WAS going to run; Iggy said no way, he wasn’t.
From what I know, Cadman had melanoma, a malignant skin cancer, but I’m not sure.
http://tinyurl.com/2l6axg
Oh, a credible source! Well then, we surrender. — Garth
By Nero Fiddles on 03.10.08 9:05 pm
Actually my point was this government isn`t working.
Not that the next one will do any better than the last 10 but as the Cdn economy has a bigger storm brewing over it that even the US perhaps an election, for what it`s worth, would be better than just failing off the cliff. I can`t imagine how the other 25M Cdns will feel when they see what the rest of us already see. Little or no work.
Personally I think there are better options but you guys are the government.
“Or is it simply the instant at which an untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer?”
Take them down I say….Keep the momentum going.
Our kids deserve better…..and so do we.
This one new RESP policy voted on and passed by the majority of M.P.’s was the only “budget” item to be lauded and talked about in an enthusiastic way by all the hockey moms and dads at the arena this past Sunday.
They think its a fabulous way to get a break on their taxes while saving for their kids education. It helps keep them and their kids out of future “student loan” debt.
It’s a winner!!!!
The time has come for all good men to come to the aid of the country .
We can suffer these fools no longer .
An election is needed now before it is too late to rescue our country from these incompetent clowns .
Deliberately bank rupting the country so the Liberals will have nothing to put in the window during an election . Bery clever .
What a bunch of pirates these goofs are .
The Liberals had better run a smart and positive campaign. They could start with comments by Flanagan as to how the fiscal situation of the government doesn’t allow any room for new programs (read ‘doesn’t allow any room for vision’). How is a cash-strapped government going to address problems in health care and the environment? Has CPC really addressed its five sacred priorities?
Liberals need a smart campaign that shows how CPC has taken away even the chance for formulating a vision about how to make this country stronger. Because that is exactly what CPC has done.
1)RESP’s are contingent on your kid going to school.
2)The interest earned on a $5000.00 account are tax free.
3)Pull the RESP money out in an emergency and you lose the gov. part and you pay tax’s on it.
4) The amount contributable is the same, but the penalties are non-existant in the TFSA.
5) Only 30% of Canadian Families take advantage of RESP’s now.
6) Not everyone has kids, and the TFSA is for everyone.
I’m pretty sure I can sit here and list more reasons a TFSA is better than a RESP, so can someone explain to me how having tax deductible RESP’s is better than a $5000.00 per year tax free earning account with no strings attached to the gain?
I didn’t think so.
I actually think the Liberal government was wise not to take down the Harper Cons because most people are just realizing how much they have taken away from average Canadians.
Paying Income Tax on their petty $1000.00 bucks per kid. Wow, do they dehumanize families thinking this is a windfall. Good Lord, a person can spend $1000.00 bucks on a family outing (Skiing or snowboarding, going to the West Edmonton Mall etc) in one single day. Where are the Cons heads thinking they are actually helping, but hurting families.
Good not to call an election just yet.
Take the Harper Conservatives down on this one, please!
Then let PMSH test the tarnished Harper brand with the Canadian people. Let him face the electorate and try to justify the Harper Conservatives’ multiple broken promises, deceptions and scandals.
(Remember the majority government that Kim Campbell was supposed to win?)
The reason Flaherty does not want this is because they do not want anything to do with something they can’t download to the Provinces, it is Liberal and they are so near a deficit, without this bill, they do not want people to know.
I noticed that while I was raising my family during the Mulroney/Divine years, we slipped into bankruptcy; somehow we were able to turn our fortunes around once the Liberals were able to regain power. I’m not really sure why the Conservatives didn’t try to take control over the 14 or so years the liberals were leading, but we did very well recovering from their imposed poverty.
Now, it doesn’t matter to me anymore, the Cons took my savings down to next to nothing when they decided to tax Income Trust funds. So, I guess we have to deal with another imposed change to our delicate circumstances for a bit longer. Hope it’s not too late for us as we are getting older and have little working years, and a lot less energy, ahead of us now.
So sad the Cons don’t get it. What have they done anyways in the two or so years they’ve been telling us how great they are?
Let’s go to polls. This is worth fighting for.It’s a winner!
VOTE Liberals, and I’ll go fish my membership out of the re-cycling box, fill it out, pay it and mail it.
While i agree that this is the right thing to do – and it would have been a nice thing to have when i began university, I think it is very irresponsible for the Liberals to force such a costly Bill through at this time.
By Adam on 03.10.08 8:51 pm
It isn’t only about you! It’s about all of us.
Can one rescind a law that does not yet exist?
I’m certainly no expert on Parliamentary procedure, but this sounds a little odd as a way to defeat the motion. If it is valid, what if the Senate were simply to pass the budget, getting this clause to erase a law that no longer exists, and then pass the McTeague’s bill? Chronology would then dictate that Parliament’s will favours the RESP bill, since that would be the most recent bill passed into law on the topic.
But like I said, I’m certainly no expert in Parliamentary procedure.
Anyhow, I support this bill. For those that claim that it costs too much, I’d be hesitant to accept the numbers that the Conversative government threw out mere hours after the bill passed – that hardly seems like enough time for the civil service to do a proper cost analysis. Chances are the Conservatives’ cost figures are substantially overinflated.
For those who claim that this measure does nothing to help (insert name/class/etc.) group, perhaps they might well also explain why it’s better to do absolutely nothing than to pass a bill that can benefit a certain proportion of the population. Not every bill can be everything to everyone, nor should they pretend to be.
Ask me in 15 days.
posted by Garth Turner on 02.18.08 @ 12:27 pm
More and more each day Mr. Garth Turner reminds me of the Sherminator from the movie series American Pie.
The Sherminator talks big game, pretends to have big balls, but when confronted with a moment to prove himself…he fails every time.
Yawn…
If the Liberals are tempted to pull the trigger on this government and put it out of it’s misery, this would be a good one to do it on. I suspect that this plan would resonate with a lot of Canadians, and the Conservatives would be hard pressed to win on their being family friendly / middle class friendly after defeating such a bread and butter issue.
Also, it would be about defeating the government on a positive measure put forward by the Liberals as opposed to being a negative action defeating a government issue.
If this isn’t a golden opportunity for the Liberals, I don’t know what is…
On the other hand with “storms” on the horizon, perhaps the Liberals really don’t want to be holding the rudder when the high seas break.
Ah, yes, Money, Money, Money! But how about something that truly affects everyone?
Grits won’t bring down Tories over climate change
I cannot think of a more important issue than our climate.
But then I am a realist living in a world of greedy morons who think they can buy breathable air, drinkable water, and food after the SHHTF!
Dion can get back to we Greens after the election with that kind of BS position!
Sorry Garth, but the CON/LIB Power struggle has reached the point of ad nauseum.
It also shows the Libs are NOT green, just opportunistic. So Sorry!
Go for it Garth !!!!
Stand up on your hind legs and vote against the government budget with the amendment to void the Liberal RESP poison pill … and go to the people with your RESP as the reason an election is necessary. Find out once and for all what Canadians think of the government and the Dion Liberals. Let’s spend $350 Million on a general election most likely to be held in snowstorms so that poor parents can provide their poor children with a college education.
Canadians are demanding that Dion’s wonderful RESP must be part of Canadian values. They are out in the streets and coffee shops talking about your RESP. Vote Liberal if you want an RESP and Dion as prime minister of Canada…!!!
Also the RESP issue will rally the 18-25 y.o. voting demographic, and once the Liberals get the youth vote out it will be clear sailing. It will be the ‘family’ vote that Harper has cultivated versus the ‘university’ vote that the RESP personifies.
No more abstaining, because if you do that again that will be the end of you and your Liberal party because Canadians will not want to pay you Liberals for doing nothing much.
Also, a non-confidence vote this week will cancel out the 4 by-elections, which may be a good thing because Gloria Galloway of the G&M did say a couple of weeks ago that the SK and Quadra ridings could be lost to the Liberals. If Liberal internal polling indicated these losses, Dion would have to step down as leader .. but if he precipitates an election this week, he will get his kick at the can and prove that he was ‘underestimated’ ..!!
Now wouldn’t it be rich if poor old BobRae had to continue campaigning another 4-6 weeks in Toronto Centre to secure his place in the HoCs .. LOL
The Liberals must vote FOR this, or there isn’t going to be a reasonable person left standing who will support the Liberals no matter when the election is ever called.
For god sakes surely Tory senators will find a way to stall its progress?
Thanks Mr. McTeague for this one and only gift to Canadians this year and keep working on BM’s behalf.
Garth, I stand with the majority on this post. In my view, this is the perfect opportunity to pull the string. Dion has little choice but to bring the goons down now to show voters that he is in fact the leader who will stand behind ordinary Canadians. That he cares about ordinary Canadians. I know my own children were excited about the RESP as an opportunity to make it easier to further their children’s education beyond high school. I’m positive that most families with children are going to be as discouraged as I am if we allow this Doctorial Government to keep governing. To see it simply vanish without a fight from ALL the opposition parties would not be fair to my grandchildren & to all average working families who might never see an opportunity like this again. At least not while this mafia style goons hold power.
This attempt of killing the RESP bill by the Harper gang is the perfect time to stand up for Canadians & for Dion to beat Harper at his own game. What a perfect issue to campaign on. That along with the Clean Air Bill, the Cadman Affair, and the leak by Bully Ian Brodie who in my opinion deserves a fist on his jaw followed by good swift kick you know where..
Mr. Chretien was right when he said it was time to bring this government down. He would, has done it & won 3 majorities doing just that. Judy, I agree with you 100%
There! I’ve had my rant, I feel better now & if nobody likes it, they can kiss my butt.
Regards
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080310.resp11/BNStory/National/home
For how long are you going to take this kind of abuse from the Conservatives?
My God, don’t you have any self-respect?
What are you going to tell your children that your work is more important than their welfare? When are you going to stand up against the Conservatives? If you care more for your job, do you care more for your job than the welfare of your children? If not you, do you expect your children to stand up against the Conservatives?
For once, show some guts. If not for you, at least for the children. Even dogs have some care for their puppies. We are human beings, are we less compassionate than animals?
What happened to the Liberals? Have they turned turtles? Give some respect to the legacy of Pearson, Trudeau, Chretien. Show some gall, for Christ sake!!!!
Garth,
The Tories are not close to bouncing off bottom. They need to free-fall another 10% in the phone polls.
Go to an election when you can see a Liberal majority.
I know we aren’t particularly representative of the general public, but right now every Liberal and/or progressive blogger in Canada (myself included) is not only clamouring for an election IMMEDIATELY – they are all on the verge of losing all hope in the Liberal Party of Canada if it doesn’t grow a pair and start doing its job as Opposition.
I know, I know, we’re not your base. What we are is active and engaged, with significant audiences who are also active and engaged, with lots and lots of friends.
Step up now and we will support you, with all the power and influence our blogs can muster. Back down again and we may just line up behind the Greens.
Garth:
IMO, if the Liberals expect to retain the slightest shred of respect from the Canadian public they have no choice but to support McTeague’s bill in every way they can, even if it means a non-confidence vote against the ways & means bill and a consequent election. I strongly urge you not only to pursue that course, but to do so willingly and enthusiastically.
If you support the Tories on this one, or abstain from voting, or don’t attend in sufficient numbers to defeat the bill then you will attract nothing but derision, and you will deserve it.
Regards,
EhBC
Oh yawn, talk to me when you party grows a spine and shows up to vote.
Just a little while longer. The festering sore that is the Harper Party is coming to a head. Soon it will be time for the hot lancing.
Notice that Harper is in Yellowknife with his Minnie Mouse MP Miss Moronia, staying far from Mexico, handing out $450 Million and pretending to care about Inuit and Northern Societal Issues and oh yeah, sports for kids. Maybe setting up a ‘go to’ person while they are there… Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Flaherty is doing his master’s bidding and killing the best thing to happen to ordinary Canadian families in decades.
Stephen Harper and his Conservatives doesn’t deserve an election on his terms: he’s got too much to hide and there is only so much time for Canadians to find out about even some of it.
Patience. Still a virtue.
Wonder if Harper knows that the Pope now considers creating poverty a deadly sin?
Well, as you put it: if getting into “power” is more importatnt that doing the right thing with this legislation – passing it – I think you are doing exactly what you continually complain about the conservatives doing – playing politics rather than doing your job on behalf of your constituents.
You “bailed” on the last vote – 7 liberals in the legislature – are you going to “bail” on this one too??
I am ready to vote for a Liberal government now, but if you keep “bailing”, I will be looking closely at my choice in the future – over to you!
I think this new RESP bill is fantastic. As a university student I see daily the stress students are under financially. Encouraging parents to save for their children’s future is a fantastic idea and something that I believe to be worth fighting for.
I didn’t agree with bringing down the government on the previous issues, but this is something I think will win the votes of many Canadians in an election. I agree with Nelsin though; if the Liberals don’t cause an election over this and allow the bill to be defeated, the party will lose every supporter they’ve gained from this bill, and likely then some.
I personally think it would be better after the by-elections are completed to bring this comedy down. Too many muzzled and too many incomple MP’s gaggagged. I don’t get it! Why are the Cons so scared so Federally? They have quite a few photo ops etc?
Take ‘em on! These oil burnin’, torture lovin’, religious nutter, war mongerin, war profiteerin’, Bush lovin, Republican morgage it all for today red ink sprayin’, gun totin’, U.S. corp ass kissin, film burnin’ censorin’, muzzlin’, science hatin’, rich first, propagandist MP bribing liars have got to go!
Release the Dogs of War…Call for an election…..Now…
LET`S ROLL!!! What the heck is going on??
It,s Time
Hand them their ass.
Include Jack Laytons ass in this also!
While I like income tax and education measures better than GST cuts, the question over whether we can afford another large tax break after all the recent spending seems like a valid one. Before bringing down the government over it, the opposition parties need to be absolutely confident that they can respond convincingly to the allegations of fiscal recklessness that are certain to be forthcoming.
That said, a party that supports this measure would likely receive my vote, as I tend to believe that a highly-educated population is one of the most valuable assets a country can have.
It helps keep them and their kids out of future “student loan” debt. It’s a winner!!!!
By Judy on 03.10.08 9:26 pm
MESSAGE TO THE LIBERALS … BRING THEM DOWN. Pssssst…We’ll kick their asses.
WTH EVER HAPPENED to the gum-chewing broad who sat to the right of Jay Hill in ParleyMent? Yep, the MB one.
Guergis: I can’t bring imprisoned Canadian home Mon. Mar. 10 2008 CTV.ca
Guergis, like the rest of the CPC, is unwilling to do anything positive. Wave her arms in the air, shrug and slap her forehead with her palm. What’s she like in the kitchen, Rahim?
Let’s have an ELECTION and then put McTeague on the problem. He did a really good job on the foreign affairs file.
Baird talks tough, but emitters win
Say, wasn’t he the guy who refused to show up to address the Canadian Youth Delegation at Bali? He was ’supposed to be otherwise occupied,’ joining forces with the US and Japan in scuttling Kyotot objectives. You can see him and his XA weasel here. This message brought to you by two other CONTRADICTORY messages; ‘Stand Up for Canada, 42 pages, as a prelude to the last election and STAND DOWN FOR KYOTO, a 20-nanosecond production at Bali.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2ArjWsNcg
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=d88d8bff-4bf2-4427-981b-e4fff9412bfd&k=64186
WHAT DOES RONA SAY? Nod! Nod! Nod!
OTTAWA RADIO SPOTS, PROCLAIMING VIRTUES
Tory MP Pierre Poilievre says Environment Minister John Baird has lowered federal rent at the Queensway Carleton Hospital, brought in whistleblower protection for public servants.
Hill Times, March 3, 2008 … Under the heading; A GATHERING OF WEASELS.
DON MARTIN, NATIONAL POST;
“After all, Mr. Baird used the word “tough” 13 times when he emerged for a few minutes of answers after the plan was tabled — and that was just the English portion of the scrum.”
In BIRDY [BOO!] BAIRD’S favour, It’s always ‘tough’ when you’re attempting to perpetrate a SNOW-JOB to cover your deliberate non-action on the climate file. What do Pierre Poi-Poi-Poilievre and Rona say? More of the NOD! NOD! NOD!
Absolutely hilarious, isn’t it! That flag to my left, and behind my right shoulder, permit me, acting upon the selection and assistance of Stephen Harper, to sit on my largesse at Public Works [as a Senator] and represent the Diddle-E-Squat interests of the CPC. Isn’t that arrogance PERSONIFIED?
BTW, did you know? •U.S. legislator Michael Michaud: “When I met privately with [International Trade Minister David] Emerson, he mentioned the fact that he would consider renegotiating the NAFTA trade deal.” Unspoken was Michaud’s further wish that Emerson would IMPROVE THE DEAL OFFERED IN THE SOFTWOOD LUMBER SELL-OUT. The lumber lobby got 1/2 $Billion to defray its legal fees, and Hurricane Katrina Charity received $520 Million. The deal was offered to Canadians as being ‘rock-solid’ for a further SEVEN YEARS.
SMELL ANYTHING … YET?
http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20080308/WBwblogolitics20080308114542/MichaelFortier.jpg
“If Mr. F. has his spiteful way, he and the prime minister and the gang sitting behind them will dash the hopes of families who – for a brief few days – saw a light of financial hope shine. Gone will be the ability to get a meaningful tax break while saving for their kid’s college education. Vanished will be a chance to improve family cash flow and receive the first meaningful tax break since this government came to office. Back again will be the reality, and drag, of crushing debt for our graduates.”
Garth, don’t you think your statement is a tad melodramatic?
The debt load will still be there for students – because parents won’t be able to put 5,000 a year into the RESP and save for their own retirement and save for everyday expenditures.
The only parents, who may be pissed, are those who are earning 6 digits – which are your Bay Street boys (and gals) and are not your every day schmucks, who are more focused on their immediate needs – like keeping their jobs.
And did you catch the British Columbia Finance Minister on Mike Duffy Live? Maybe Stephane Dion and Dalton McGuinty should have a chat with her.
Basically, she said that tax cuts for individuals and corporations are good. And that the “nanny” state ideology that the socialist government had before made BC a HAVE-NOT province. And that she agreed with Flaherty’s approach.
Sure, that’s a ROLLEX on my left wrist. I had an opportunity to buy the bona fide, genuine, article when I was in Bali. I also bought one for my greatest and most loyal friend, Pierre Poi-Poi Poilievre, too. Sure, I BITE MY NAILS, doing NOTHING requires GREAT CONCENTRATION.
http://www.ctv.ca/mar/photo.html?pname=http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20070501/460X_cp_baird_070501.jpg&win_width=620.0&description=Environment%20Minister%20John%20Baird%20stands%20during%20question%20period%20in%20the%20House%20of%20Commons%20on%20Parliament%20Hill%20in%20Ottawa,%20May%201,%202007.%20
You don’t want a recession, DO YOU? Doesn’t a “20% reduction by 2020″ have a ring to it?
http://corrigan.ca/april22-07.jpg
Garth, the deductible RESP is a good measure, the Party knew what it was doing and how Harper would react. Don’t you dare strike up the Hesitation Waltz!
By Herb on 03.10.08 9:15 pm
Darn GOOD ADVICE. McTeague says, “It’s an issue worthy of having the people decide.” Paraphrased, of course, ‘cos that’s what I’m wearing as I type. I can’t wait to see the shock on CPC supporters faces when my BIG UGLY MUG APPEARS AT THEIR VESPERS!
<b?December 27, 2007—Villain: John Baird
Under the heading; Our*** Vision—But the “unspoken” is ABSOLUT KONTROLL of this country, through DELIBERATE, MEASURED INCOMPETENCE AND LIES! *** Which includes such-like Pierre Poi-Poi Poilievre, PMSH and the Charade Gang.
“No federal politician this year was a bigger embarrassment to Canadians than Environment Minister John Baird, and in a year with Peter Mackay, Stockwell Day and of course Stephen Harper all doing their level best to act like inbred dimwits incapable of governing a kindergarten classroom, much less a country of thirty million people, this is no small achievement. Baird’s conduct in the House of Commons alone would normally be embarrassing enough to earn him demerit points, considering even the most tepid and blah political commentators use phrases like “insane temper tantrums” to describe his demeanour in the House (and such behaviour is nothing new for Baird, who routinely made an ass of himself at Queen’s Park as well back in the day).
Source: The Torontoist, December 2007
Garth: All four of those ridings were held by the Liberals and therefor should easily be won by them again correct?No mean accomplishment by any stretch of the imagination.So what will you do on Thursday Garth…sit on your hands again?You can be sure Jack Layton will be standing tall(like the real opposition should)Will seven,eleven or NO Liberals show up??
By david on 03.10.08 9:06 pm
David – easy for the NDP to oppose, or suck up to the cons and trash the Libs. They know they’ll never form a Fed. govt. Layton is a laugh.
24 months and little or no work done
Source, Mr. Rope? — Garth
By Nero Fiddles on 03.10.08 8:53 pm
The 5 points are on the Conservative web site.
Oh, a credible source! Well then, we surrender. — Garth
By Nero Fiddles on 03.10.08 9:05 pm
When Rope posted yesterday, I thought he said last week he was outta here. Correct me if I’m wrong. Hard to keep track of all the cons who post under different monikers, tho Rope’s new one was very transparent.
“….all of which they’ll likely lose.”
What colour is the sky in your world again? Voting down a tax break for the rich doesn’t sound like an election-loser to me. Google the opinions of everyone from the Canadian Taxpayers Association to the Canadian Federation of Students and then tell me that this tax break is a sound idea. It’s not even close to something that responsible MPs would have thought through. This is a great example of where this country would be financially if the Liberals were put back in office. The adults are now in charge, no need to change a thing.
Anything that allows Canadians to save for the children is a good thing. However, I question the timing of this bill. the Liberals and CONS have effectively been in a deadheat in the polls for months. The Liberals must have known that Stevey and Flathead would try to block it and hence make it a issue of Confidence. Are the Liberals ready for an election…an election that no one really wants? I guess we’ll see this week.
I want the CONS out…ever since the income trust lie…but I question the timing of this. If the Liberals back down yet again…
Of course Canadians don’t want an election right now. I hear that most of you are digging out of several feet of snow!
But the snow will melt and the daffydills will spring soon and if the Cons/ what am I saying ‘if’/ when the Cons take this away from parents and grandparents across this country there will be hell to pay.
Add if to the IT massacre, the reluctance to help out manufacturing and their weak $1bill bandage. All the lies all the BS…all the MEANNESS can be sprayed on signs and concentrated in the areas where they will do the most good. ie and CON riding!
Poor Dona Cadman. But she’s tougher than she looks. Maybe they will take the nomination away from her at the last minute when they think no one will notice like they did to those other two guys.
Lets send them back to Alberta and their “base”. The Ontario crooks, Baird, Flaherty and that lot, can answer to the courts for their crimes and maybe write a bad book along with Steve.
Election! Now! Please!
As Dan McTeague wrote: “I get the sense today, more than ever, that we have savvy, sincerity and chutzpah to takes these pretenders on.
He’s right.
Geo
Seems to me its safe to say any confidence motion after the Afghanistan vote is fair game. and then some.
and fwiw, just because I don’t max a new break doesn’t mean its not welcome.
By Nero Fiddles on 03.10.08 9:19 pm
YAAAWWNNN!
Same old same old Sux. Or Nero, Or one of the four or five names you have been posting under this past week.
Trying to drum up biz for your sites I see. Same old same old, Your ex was so so bad and you were so mistreated. And it’s all a big feminist plot by the SWC and those nasty lawyers. They were all out to get you. We know already Sux.
And why do you erase the comments a person makes while leaving only your long winded reply? You are the only person who comments on your blog. Or do you make up your adversaries too?
Sheesh, what a poser.
Harper Government TRIES TO SCREW ONTARIO
C-22 An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 (Democratic representation) First Reading in the House of Commons (November 14, 2007)
BEGONE … YE BASTARDS!
1.Albrecht, Harold Kitchener—Conestoga
2.Allison, Dean Niagara West—Glanbrook
3.Baird, John (Hon.) Ottawa West—Nepean
4.Brown, Gord Leeds—Grenville
5.Brown, Patrick Barrie
6.Carrie, Colin Oshawa
7.Chong, Michael (Hon.) Wellington—Halton Hills
8.Clement, Tony (Hon.) Parry Sound—Muskoka
9.Comuzzi, Joe (Hon. ) Thunder Bay—Superior North
10.Davidson, Patricia Sarnia—Lambton
11.Del Mastro, Dean Peterborough
12.Devolin, Barry Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock
13.Dykstra, Rick St. Catharines
14.Finley, Diane (Hon.) Haldimand—
Norfolk
15.Flaherty, Jim (Hon.) Whitby—Oshawa
16.Galipeau, Royal Ottawa—Orléans
17.Gallant, Cheryl Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke
18.Goodyear, Gary Cambridge
19.Guergis, Helena (Hon.) Simcoe—Grey
20.Khan, Wajid Mississauga—Streetsville
21.Kramp, Daryl Prince Edward—Hastings
22.Lauzon, Guy Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry
23.Lemieux, Pierre Glengarry—Prescott—Russell
24.MacKenzie, Dave Oxford
25.Miller, Larry Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound
26.Nicholson, Rob (Hon.) Niagara Falls
27.Norlock, Rick Northumberland—Quinte West
28.O’Connor, Gordon (Hon.) Carleton—Mississippi Mills
29.Oda, Bev (Hon.) Durham
30.Poilievre, Pierre Nepean—Carleton
31.Preston, Joe Elgin—Middlesex—London
32.Reid, Scott Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington
33.Schellenberger, Gary Perth—Wellington
34.Shipley, Bev Lambton—Kent—Middlesex
35.Stanton, Bruce Simcoe North
36.Sweet, David Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale
37.Tilson, David Dufferin—Caledon
38.Van Kesteren, Dave Chatham-Kent—Essex
39.Van Loan, Peter (Hon.) York—Simcoe
40.Wallace, Mike Burlington
41.Watson, Jeff Essex
Message for your Liberal colleagues: “Stand up for Canadians!”
(Wouldn’t be a bad campaign slogan, if it weren’t too close to the late “Stand up for Canada.”)
Unintended tax relief
RESP bill puts Tories in a bind
Arthur Drache, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Canadians woke up last week to discover the House of Commons had passed a private member’s bill that would allow the deduction of contributions to registered educational savings plans. In an almost unprecedented move, the Commons passed Bill C-253, a bill sponsored by Liberal MP Dan McTeague that would allow deductions of RESP contributions of up to $5,000 a year for each child.
The passage of a private member’s bill cutting taxes is rare, but anything can happen in a pizza Parliament, especially if the issue is not a vote of confidence.
One might have thought the tax-cutting Conservatives would not be too unhappy about the passage of what amounts to a whopping tax cut. But coming just days after the passage of the 2008 federal budget, the projected cost of the amendment might approach a $1-billion and could be enough to tip the country into a deficit position. The fact that the proposal is arguably even more attractive to parents of young children than the tax centrepiece contained in the budget — the Tax-Free Savings Account –didn’t help matters.
Contributions to a RESP have never been deductible from income before. The plan was first introduced in the mid 1970s and the background is interesting. Educational trusts started to be offered to the public in the late 1960s, but there was no legislation. A deal with Revenue Canada saw the income annually taxable to the contributors. But one father successfully challenged the arrangement, saying that since he did not and could not get any of the funds, he should not be taxed. Finance then created a statutory framework for the RESP that was based on how the exiting handful of plans worked — none of which, incidentally, was an individual plan. And from the start, contributions were not deductible.
The RESP has undergone massive legislative changes since then with higher contributions allowances, individual plans sanctioned and the government contributing funds to each plan. But deductibility was never an issue. The plan theoretically taxes the beneficiary students when the funds are paid out, but in practical terms, tuition costs usually cover any income inclusion.
Bill C-253 now heads to the Senate, where a big Liberal majority could pass it. According to public statements, the government will try to stop it.
But it is not at all clear how this can be done. One interesting point is that the legislation does not take effect until it gets royal assent. The timing of royal assent has always been in the hands of the government and there are cases where royal assent has been delayed for months, if not years, albeit usually because the government has administrative or other reasons to delay enactment. It might be that the legislation could be delayed until this Parliament actually ends.
While the current RESP rules are attractive enough that parents and grandparents should not delay contributions, it remains to be seen if and when Bill C-253 becomes law.
Whatever happens, the situation is potentially an economically and politically costly embarrassment to the government that gave tax relief for children’s sports activities and now wants to go on record as opposing tax relief for educational savings. They may be in the right from a fiscal point of view, but this is an example of parliamentary democracy at work — which is a hard concept to challenge.
— – Arthur Drache, CM, QC, is an Ottawa-based lawyer at Drache Associates LLP and is associate counsel to Miller Thomson LLP.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=72ea2482-3fcc-4c20-81bc-171f38a12055&k=20429
So,you have a choice.What are you going to do about it.
“Just what exactly do the Harper /Flaherty Conservatives stand for anyway?”
By AToryNoMore on 03.10.08 8:45 pm
Dear AToryNoMore,
Harper’s only goal is UNFETTERED POWER!!!
As for the question of whether or not to give Harper the election he so cravenly desires…
Ask the UNDEFEATED New England Patriots if they were ready to do battle in the 2008 Superbowl!
REMEMBER THE GIANTS!!!
Sincerely,
MB
There are so many people I’ve spoken with who voted for the Conservative Party, and have said they are fed up. If an election occurs, I doubt they will vote Conservative this time. This is a hard call, but after hearing Flaherty last night, and then Baird, I was disgusted.
While I would like to see Bob Rae in parliament sooner than later, I think this time the Liberals need to stand up for all those Canadians who did not vote for the Conservatives last time–the majority of us. I’ve had enough of this government, and so have many, many people.
The Brenda Martin affair, Nafta-gate and the Cadman affair, are only the most recent examples of an incompetent government.
If you do not support this bill, you will have lost the respect of a very large number of Canadians and therefore the VOTES of a very large number of Canadians.
Your Caucus MUST vote for the BIll and against the Government.
If the liberals will go with the government, then I will vote Green, as I am so mad that Dion is just sitting on his hands, and do nothing. It would be good to have an election, even if we don’t win, we will get rid of Dion, and that will put us forward. DON’T GIVE IN TO THE BASTARDS. Please tell Dion Garth.
I agree Judy, some people I talked to even thought it was part of the con budget. These people will be disappointed when they find out the cons want to squash it.
More negative tory headlines.
http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/
JUST A POINT
We have two RESPs for our grandchildren and have been contributing for a number of years.
Lets compare the plans. The present RESP allows you to contribute and the government passes along an additional 20%. This is more depending upon income.
When they get ready to use this plan our money that was contributed is returned tax free and can be withdrawn at any time. The interest is taxed and if not used can be passed to an RRSP if the contributor or benefactor. The 20% government share is taxed if used and if not used must be returned to the government.
The new RESP plan give a tax break up front but defers the tax until withdrawn. There is no mention that the government is going to offer the 20% similar to the present RESP. If you are in the lowest tax bracket you save approximately $215.00 on tax on $1000.00 at the onset. However, when the funds are withdrawn the total amount is taxed and could be considerably more depending on income at the time.
On looking at the two plans I believe the present plan offers the best of all worlds and we will be sticking with it.
From what I have read this will have an impact upon the provinces and was never discussed. This is the downloading that provinces are constantly complaining about. In addition, is it the correct measure to be introduced when the enonomy is in the shape Mr Turner keeps carping about. This is not a stimulant.
On the surface the plan looks good but the government will get there share on the back end if the funds are not used for education or if the persons has a part time job and income putting them at or above the lowest tax bracket.
I think a better idea would be to allow families (parents or grandparents) to use RRSP funds tax free to educate these children. Education is most important area we can spend our money, everyone gains. I understand that RRSP funds can be used for your own education but must be paid back similar to the housing plan.
“So, what should the strategy be this week? Vote for the RESP bill which middle-class Canadians so clearly want – the kind of reform which brought me back to Ottawa?” – Yes.
“In doing so, should we risk giving the Conservatives an election at the wrong moment, a time of their choosing?” - There’s no time like the present.
“Should we bite our tongues, sit on our hands, and await the better day to sweep away Mr. Harper?” – The more times you do this, the less credible an official opposition you become.
“Is this a time for principle or strategy?” - Principle when reasoned, should alway come first. Principle based on ideology should be disgarded.
“Or is it simply the instant at which an untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer?” – You got that right!
RE: Ms. Martin, the Secretary of State, the Hon Helena Guergis, has said that she has intervened, but it would be inappropriate to interfer in the Mexican legal system.
So the guaranteed protection written into every Canadian passport is meaningless.
Time for the PM to call his Mexican counterpart and put some real pressure on to get things moving.
Message for your Liberal colleagues: “Stand up for Canadians!”
(Wouldn’t be a bad campaign slogan, if it weren’t too close to the late “Stand up for Canada.”)
By Herb on 03.11.08 5:32 am
The question we should ask is:
Just what kind of Canada we were asked to stand up for?
Why should liberals in the four elections vote Liberal when you guys have not been voting for us?
I expect Chris Tindal will stomp Rae, Lying dipper and creator of Rae days becomes a won’t do their job Liberal.
Here is how Paul Wells sees the Liberals’ “electioneering”:
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=pos&eid=43
Harper is STILL smarter than you lieberals.That private members’ bill had to pass through committee before being introduced,so the conservatives ok’d it,knowing full well it would trigger a confidence motion.As usual,they will paint your leader as a weakling who is a big spender of tax dollars that benefit few people.Just wait for it.And if you have the balls,(doubt it)vote against the government for once,just to surprise everyone.
Garth – I’m with the majority here.
Seems to me that for the first time – Dion is actually calling the shots. The Cosnervatives are the ones forcing the election – and this is probably the best issue to go to the polls over.
Remind the voters, we went to the polls because the Conservatives struck down a measure designed to help our kids.
As to those who say this cut is only for the rich – you’re only partially right.
Let’s be honest here – tax cuts – of any sort – do NOT help the poor in any measurable way. If we want to really help the poor – then we have to look at income redistribution.
What this plan does is allow for middle income families to finally be able to use a tax cut – and to support their children.
In my house – after the bills are paid, our first investment is into the RESPs. Not only do we put away for our 2 kids – but we also contribute a little to our nieces and nephews. (Instead of a $50 birthday gift – we put $30 into thier RESP and buy a $20 gift). Yeah, it’s not much – but I came from a lower middle class family – and my parents sacrificed a lot to put me through school. I will do the same for my kids.
For those without kids – you don’t benefit immediately – that’s true – but educated people usually get better apying jobs – whcih means they pay more in taxes. And since the debt load with be smaller – they will be paying taxes faster after University.
IMO – this is the singlest best idea to happen in a long time – better than Nationalized daycare, better than $100 per kid a month.
Last election I voted Green. I would vote Liberal for this.
“The question we should ask is:
Just what kind of Canada we were asked to stand up for?” – AToryNoMore, 6:45 am
The “kind of Canada” us deciding swing voters voted for in 2006 was one no longer governed by Chretien, Martin or the LPC. We got it, have seen the Harper neo-Republican alternative, and now will vote for a Canada not governed by Harper or the neo-Republicans.
From: “Geoffrey L”
To: pm@pm.gc.ca
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:11:29 -0400
Subject: Canada’s New Government: Nasty Brutish and Short Finance Minister hates average Canadians saving for their children’s higher education.
Prime Minister Harper,
I can only really contribute to my 11 month old son’s RESP if I can get a tax deduction. Why is it that your nasty, brutish and short finance minister wants to destroy my ability to finance my son’s higher education? When are you going to pull the plug on your pugilistic intellectual midget of a finance minister?
Sincerely,
Geoffrey L
Great article in Toronto Star today by James Travers “Liberals’ green card turns into Joker” My how the ball has been dropped by Mr. Green himself since that “historic” leadership convention in Montreal.Thank goodness Jack Layton is holding the Conservatives’ feet to the fire on this and many other issues.True Official Opposition indeed!!!!
Time to stand up and speak out for what is right…PMSH and the government are counting on the Liberals to back off once they triple dare you. I believe that why many people don’t contribute to an RESP now is simply and only because the contributions are not tax deductible. MP McTeague’s Bill allows for a tax deduction – quite straightforward. For the government to imply that it is a Bill only for the rich is absolutely ridiculous. I agree with most posters on this topic – if the Liberals back down and don’t support their own Member’s Bill, they will be portrayed as cowardly eunuchs – and that would be the mantra of the CONS during the campaign. I don’t look forward to an election for no reason, but this one depends more on principle than most.
Catherine – give your head a shake. First of all, B.C. is a very different economy and secondly Harper’s been pumping money into B.C.
Bill-Muskoka – one has to be careful. If Harper were to win a majority (Elizabeth May really detests that idea) – the environment issue is doomed.
Helena Guergis, because of its urgency, should be at her desk dealing with the Brenda Martin case instead flipping around Yellowknife trying to gain brownie points with the PM. Also, when I heard her responses on Mike Duffy I just wanted to smack her (and I’m far from the violent type). In her usual little girl baby voice sounded like a spoiled brat. Harper could step in and talk to Calderone – show some punch here Harper – do something.
Helena Guergis should be FIRED. When I watched her on W-Five twice (the Ianiero and Martin cases) I couldn’t believe what an inept and phony MP she is. The Liberals should ask for her resignation immediately.
I don’t have kids, but I don’t mind my tax dollars helping our youth. Better spent that way than a train from Peterborough going through Oshawa to buy votes for Flaherty and Del Mastro when there is another less inexpensive way to do it. Or, money spent on a makeup lady, double the cost of polling than previous governments, double the amount of SUV’s bought for cabinet members, etc. than previous governments, $650,000 spent of 5% GST stickers and a photo-op – and we could go on.
Obviously, Harper/Flaherty have put Canada in a bad position on the edge of deficit. Well, Liberals have dealt with that before and came up smelling roses and put Canada back on track and they can do it again.
Too funny – Flaherty toots that the NDP government in Manitoba lowered corporate taxes – Mulcair has been tooting that NDP handle financial situations well – he points out Manitoba – BUT Layton/Mulcair(the next NDP leader) scream about lowering corporate taxes – too funny.
Give it up, people.
Your beloved Liberals won’t call an election.
the only income fund lie is the one you’re reading here.
only cowards speak of bullies.
Good morning Garth, This is a sham. You know that there is no way a government can support having the control of the country’s finances taken from them. If any of you were serious about this plan, you would have added it as an amendment to the budget. Where was it then?
I don’t think this is a plan of any one person’s doing in your party. You put forth this private members bill for one reason only, to embarrass the government by seemingly handing the people something shinny that they might care about only to have the government take it away.
Either the government controls the money or we must have an election.
When all a party does is invent fairy-tale scandals and throw wrenches into the works like this bill, it does not look like a party that is capable of governing. It looks and smells like the NDP. Keep it up and when we do have an election the outcome will be the NDP as Official Opposition and the Liberals will share the rump with the Bloc.
Leasa
Perhaps Harper saved the Senate yet another round of embarrassment we may never know, in any rate your words make sense Garth. Mondays bi-elections are important. For all of us who believe in education and the future of children and grandchildren hang in, for the fight is not over. I like others have seen doors of opportunity but although we are close to the enemy and their eyes are glowing they do not appear white, and Dion’s power is still dry.
For those who like to quote the MSM when it comes to elections, careful, the MSM bread and butter, not to mention personal TV appearances and big time money comes from elections…..hello turn on CNN and watch just how they are milking Barack and Hillary.
RESPs for all
National Post
Published: Saturday, March 08, 2008
We’re puzzled by the federal Conservatives’ apparent opposition to a Liberal private member’s bill that would permit Canadian parents to deduct from their taxable income up to $5,000 a year per child in contributions to Registered Education Savings Plans (RESPs). Sure, the bill is costly, depriving the federal treasury of perhaps as much as $900-million a year, thereby throwing the Tories’ budget into disarray — a bit. But the measure, introduced by Liberal MP Dan McTeague, seems a very (small-c) conservative type of initiative, not unlike the Tories’ popular $100-a-month early childhood care payments. Rather than attempting to use the Senate to block its final passage, the Conservatives should welcome the family-friendly measure and find the money to fund it from some Liberal sacred-cow program.
As RESPs are current structured, they disproportionately benefit the wealthy: Only about 30% of eligible families have RESPs. As University of British Columbia economist Kevin Milligan has pointed out, RESP-participating taxpayers are “concentrated among high-income, high parental-education households.”
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=361337
From my above post, I should have also included the following para. Seems McTeague had Finance cost out his plan a year ago.
Mr. McTeague’s plan would change this by making the first $5,000 in annual contributions per child tax-deductible in much the same way RRSPs are. He also disputes the government’s contention that his RESP reforms would cost the federal government $900-million a year in lost tax revenue and cost the provinces another $450-million. A year ago, when he asked the Finance department to cost out his idea, they told him it would cost between $600-million and $700-million, a figure Mr. McTeague says could be offset by eliminating a feature of the current program whereby Ottawa matches 20% of annual parental contributions.
Note to Lana….
Lana, everyone feels for Brenda Martin including Helena. There is more to this story than we know. For example, the head of the CND consulate…stay tuned. This woman told everyone she had met with Brenda 26 times. In fact she never met her at all. She should be fired. She was doing a promo thing for CND tire bicycle program and told reporters that she would answer their questions when she was finished her presentation. She never did the presentation and slipped out the back door.
As much as we would want to, we cannot intervene with a foreign government’s judges and court system. I heard the only hope we have is to actually have the Mexican court rule Brenda guilty then we can file to bring her home.
As many petitions we sign and outrage we display…won’t sway that corrupt foreign government.
Any Canadian in the aftermath of this story that willingly goes to Mexico for any reason, is a fool.
I agree that we should have sanctions against this corrupt country which include all travel. What would be the repercussions? Should be pull a ‘Cuba-U.S. style sanction’ on Mexico?
Leasa
This bloody political gamesmanship in the House has got to go. Here is the motion I would like to see passed……….
Whereas this government has for political gain made an excessive number of votes “a matter of confidence” and has made it impossible for MPs to vote upon the CONTENT of the bill without far reaching political implications.
And whereas the public elects its MPs to represent their interests not that of the political party to which they belong.
And whereas there are no limits upon what the government of the day can declare “a matter of confidence” or what can be included in such a bill in order to make it a “no win” scenario for those opposed to portions of said bill.
And whereas all partys and governments past, present and future need to cease playing games with the future of Canada and allow our representatives to vote as their conscious and / or constituents dictates not as dictated by the party elite.
Be it resolved that the ONLY vote in the house that shall cause the government to fall shall be one which contains the words “this house has no confidence in…..” , further that such a bill shall contain no other proposals or legislation but shall be purely a motion regarding the houses confidence in the government.
(even if the budget fails, go back and rework it or work with the opposition to make it acceptable, split it up and get what IS agreed upon passed, start making our parliament WORK but stop with the political BS)
I am getting tired of the whole bloody lot of them!
Bacon butties in poutine country
Via Vijay Sappani this CanWest article detailing the amount of development money being handed out. This will come as a total shocker, but Conservative-held ridings in Quebec, coincidentally, receive more than ridings held by other parties. A lot more.
The Harper government has been channelling a disproportionate amount of economic development money in Quebec into Conservative-held ridings, a Canwest News Service analysis has found.
Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions has a mandate to promote “long-term economic development” in Quebec by issuing grants and loans to businesses, non-profit organizations and communities. According to the agency’s governing legislation, it is supposed to give special attention to regions where “slow economic growth is prevalent or where opportunities for productive employment are inadequate.”
[...]
On average, each Conservative seat received $10.8 million in economic development money. That is more than one and a half times the average of $6.6 million that Bloc Quebecois ridings have received, and more than three times the $3.2-million average for Liberal ridings.
This is hardly “new”. It seems to me all governments do this. They did the same thing in the UK. Living in Nova Scotia it was particularly noticeable. So, why is this such an issue?
The Harper government rode to power roughly two years ago in the wake of the sponsorship scandal, which revealed that a program designed to promote federalism in Quebec funnelled cash to advertising and communications firms connected with the Liberal party. In their campaign platform, Harper’s Conservatives vowed to end “old-style politics” and “replace a culture of entitlement and corruption with a culture of accountability.”
That’s the issue. Harper said he wouldn’t do it.
Labels: harper, pork
http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/
Time for the PM to call his Mexican counterpart and put some real pressure on to get things moving.By James- Chatham on 03.11.08 6:44 am
Ah, James, you are always the voice of reason and objectivity. Too bad some people on here couldn’t take a page from your book. I agree with everything you said on your post, but really appreciate that you added that comment about Brenda.
Leasa, you are full of **it.
[...] the RESP deduction legislation passed by the House a few days ago. (This was reported yesterday by Garth Turner, MP, on his blog, and confirmed this morning by The Globe and Mail.) A Ways and Means motion to [...]
Rural, your 8:47 AM, “Hear, hear!”
Garth,
I will begin by stating that I will not be voting Liberal in the next election, though I would give it serious consideration if I did not live in Bill Casey’s riding.
That being said, while I think the RESP Bill is excellent, I do not think it is time to bring down the government. Let them stew in their scandals for another six months and then have a fall election. Most of the voting public have a short memory and by the fall will not fault the Liberals for their winter/spring voting scheme.
Ford
Prime Minister Harper,
I can only really contribute to my 11 month old son’s RESP if I can get a tax deduction.
By Geoffrey L. on 03.11.08 7:01 am
you’re getting better than a tax deduction, you get a 20% CESG.
‘Turning the Screws’
Bean spiller: Tom Flanagan, former Harper chief of staff. Give up on social programs, says Harper budget.
By Murray Dobbin
Published: March 4, 2008
TheTyee.ca
Harper’s Conservatives in their latest budget have taken their lead from the Bush administration. They are simultaneously increasing the military’s budget and cutting government revenue to set the stage for future cuts to social programs.
Just like Bush, who also came into office with the “problem” of huge budget surpluses, Harper is well on his way to achieving the neo-con objective of permanently hobbling government’s ability to fund anything but the military. Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and a dedicated Bushite, might have been speaking for Harper when he said “My goal is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.”
Previously announced Conservative tax cuts will mean an annual loss of government revenue of $40.2 billion by 2012-2013. Economist Erin Weir has commented, “It is striking that the tax cuts will cost as much as it currently costs to run the government of Canada’s entire non-military side.”
The tax free savings plan announced in the February budget will, through its compounding effects, mean another erosion of government revenue. Initially involving only small amounts, in twenty years this plan is estimated to cost the government $3 billion each year. Since poor and middle class families are mostly heavily indebted and not in a position to save, the rich are the most likely beneficiaries of the plan.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/03/04/Flanagan/
…
Impossible dreams?
A national childcare program, a housing program for the estimated 250,000 Canadians living on the streets, pharmacare — these are meant to become impossible dreams. More, though, is apparently in the gun sights of the Harper Conservatives. Government revenues as a per cent of GDP are to drop to levels that existed before the establishment of key programs like medicare, so these programs too will appear increasingly unaffordable.
Former Harper chief of staff Tom Flanagan recently praised the Conservative government for pulling off “quite a performance,” achieving radical changes with successive revenue cuts without ever tipping their hand about what they were up to. Flanagan described the Conservatives as “turning the screws on the federal government.” and “boxing in the ability of the federal government to come up with new program ideas . . .”
The Canadian public is apparently being played for a bunch of saps. Flanagan revealed that critiques of the government for not going far enough from right-wingers like Harper’s former National Citizens’ Coalition colleague Gerry Nicholls, or representatives of the Canadian Taxpayer Federation were actually “part of the execution of the plan . . .”
BTW, there are lots of links in this blog that don’t show up when copying it.
There are so many items that the Libs could quote in the next election to show how the cons want to destroy our Canadian values.
My first reaction is bring down these cons now, but I’m not privy to insider info. and I’m certainly not a political strategist, just your avg. Cdn. I took out a Lib membership last year, first time in my life, and have started contributing and will continue to do so. I encourage all other Libs to do so, even if its a very small amount. Every little bit helps.
By rural on 03.11.08 8:47 am
Yep, that gets my vote for the last word.
Garth if this is such a good bill, why are nearly all stakeholders against it.
Don Drummond says it could run a tab of up to $2 billion, the Taxpayers Federation says it is a measure which further complicates the tax code, and the Canadian Federation of Students (the people who this measure is meant to help) say that the cost would be better spent on grants.
When all a party does is invent fairy-tale scandals and throw wrenches into the works like this bill, it does not look like a party that is capable of governing. It looks and smells like the NDP. Keep it up and when we do have an election the outcome will be the NDP as Official Opposition and the Liberals will share the rump with the Bloc.
Leasa
By Leasa on 03.11.08 8:31 am
I guess you only read the con papers Leasa. The Libs, NDP and Bloc didn’t invent these scandals, the cons created them.
You, as usual, are a ‘denier’.
From the Globe
========================
KEVIN CARMICHAEL
From Tuesday’s Globe and Mail
March 10, 2008 at 10:23 PM EDT
OTTAWA — The Harper government turned the tables on the Liberals, daring them to fight an election over the $900-million tax break a united Opposition pushed through the House of Commons last week.
Characterizing the measure as an irresponsible tax cut for the wealthy, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said he would make a provision squashing the proposal as part of forthcoming legislation related to last month’s budget.
========================
Why does Flaherty always cast a dark shadow across the truth? It’s because he very large two-faces.
Flaherty’s TFSA is even a better deal for the rich. They can save $5000 per year indefinitely. Add investment income to the TFSA, and Little Leroy Fancy Pants can become even richer.
If the concern is that rich parents will get a bigger tax refund, well fix that. Make the RESP a refundable tax credit thing, so that lower and middle income savers will get equal benefit.
And there’s one more thing. Flaherty is a cheap screw. A taxpayer with post-secondary education will pay $250,000 or more in lifetime taxes than will a high school graduate. But Flaherty is too cheap to invest another $1500 per year.
Garth, sit on your hands for this vote. Make RESP part of the Liberal platform to help young Canadians get more educations.
I saw Mr. Dion’s media scrum on this issue and he was saying the Senate should be the place of wise second opinion to decide on this issue. He seemed to be saying that the Senate should halt it. It was a strange position to take and again tells me that we have another political game at play. A game played on the emotions of the people. Garth Turner is using this issue to demonize the Conservatives as per usual. BUT when it comes to standing up and be counted in the vote – His Liberal Party will send in either the Listless Eleven or the Sad Sack
Seven to vote. AND IT WILL BE DEFEATED because Dion gave every indication as did Turner in this article that the Liberals will not stand up to support it.
Lender of Last Resort
Welcome to the socialist future, going forward: U.S. Fed adds liquidity by accepting mortgages as collateral – now the people have been taxed with paying the debts and mortgages of the Jumbo rich and the imprudent.
Bank of Canada jumps into roaring paper fire:
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSTOR00272720080311
After stepping off cliff, close eyes:
Moody’s, S&P Defer Cuts on AAA Subprime, Hiding Loss
Talk about moral hazard! We’re quickly descending into Dante’s pit. If this new money goes into commodities speculation again then we are really Spitzer skewed.
As much as we would want to, we cannot intervene with a foreign government’s judges and court system. I heard the only hope we have is to actually have the Mexican court rule Brenda guilty then we can file to bring her home.
Any Canadian in the aftermath of this story that willingly goes to Mexico for any reason, is a fool.
Leasa
You’re correct we cannot directly interfere with another countries justice system. However, it has been the case where our government has stepped in and talked, at the highest levels, PM to head of state, and had the process proceed without delay, or ask for clemancy upon conviction. And we have achieved results.
PMSH should be asking Mexico why there has been such a delay if the evidence they say they have is so strong. Given that their star witness, the guy who has been convicted of the crime, says she had no knowledge of his activities, I suspect the Mexican’s are trying to frame her.
As for travelling to Mexico, I agree.
That’s one destination that’s been off my list for a long time.
In my house – after the bills are paid, our first investment is into the RESPs. Not only do we put away for our 2 kids – but we also contribute a little to our nieces and nephews. (Instead of a $50 birthday gift – we put $30 into thier RESP and buy a $20 gift). Yeah, it’s not much – but I came from a lower middle class family – and my parents sacrificed a lot to put me through school. I will do the same for my kids.
For those without kids – you don’t benefit immediately – that’s true – but educated people usually get better apying jobs – whcih means they pay more in taxes. And since the debt load with be smaller – they will be paying taxes faster after University.
IMO – this is the singlest best idea to happen in a long time – better than Nationalized daycare, better than $100 per kid a month.
Last election I voted Green. I would vote Liberal for this.
By Tim N on 03.11.08 6:58 am
Tim – We don’t have children and can’t contribute as our nieces/nephews are too old to benefit. I do recall that I once thought of contributing to some type of plan for my niece, the youngest, rather than buying her gifts for her birthday/Xmas, but never got my act together. Actually, I do have a 5 yo nephew in Mtl., for whom I could contribute, if that is allowed. We have 5 nieces/nephews (3 in France), but just give money to their parents at Xmas now. They decide what to buy for the kids, as we don’t know what they need/want. But, for one nephew, we’d put money into an RESP.
I too believe that the future of Canada rests upon today’s youth acquiring a university education. I’d love to see free tuition for those, regardless of income levels, who have good grades, be able to attend university. Tuition in NS is about the highest in Canada and many are left with huge loans upon graduation. They are then forced to go to the US or out west, where wages are higher, to pay off their debts.
Really, are the Liberals going to fight this fight? No offense Garth, but the Libs have tucked tail and run from every possible chance at bringing down Harper. He SHOULD be brought down, on principle if for no other reason.
But this will likely not happen. My bet?: the Libs gloss it over and keep the idea for an upcoming election plank. This will not be the end of Harper’s sham government (although I’ve been plenty wrong in the past).
Prove me wrong Garth. Please.
Leasa, you are full of **it.
By Lana on 03.11.08 8:52 am
You just gotta love the level of intelligent debate here.
Re: Election?
The dusky night rides down the sky,
And ushers in the morn;
The hounds all join in glorious cry,
The huntsman winds his horn,
And a hunting we will go.
Twackum, smackum, go getum.
you’re getting better than a tax deduction, you get a 20% CESG.
By give me a break on 03.11.08 9:14 am
If your marginal tax rate is greater than 20%, tax deductability is better.
And don’t forget the 20% is only on the first $2500, so the benefit of the CESG could be less!
One advantage of the CESG, it must go to the RESP. A tax refund doesn’t.
So if the choice is between tax deductability or CESG as a means to assist kids education, stick with the CESG because that’s were it has to go. But make it apply to all contributions at 30%.
Details Garth, details which if Flaherty has his way, won’t matter!
(even if the budget fails, go back and rework it or work with the opposition to make it acceptable, split it up and get what IS agreed upon passed, start making our parliament WORK but stop with the political BS)
I am getting tired of the whole bloody lot of them!
By rural on 03.11.08 8:47 am
Rural – Do you seriously think that the cons will work with the Opposition. The only bill that the cons modified was as on Afghanistan because they knew that most Cdns were against it. They won’t even answer a straight forward question in QP.
TFSA is still a better deal, at a 10% (in a perfect world) return with the maximum contributed annually, an individual will reap close to a $500,000 over 21 years, tax fee. Thats no strings attached.
RESP at the same rate of return, with the Gov’ contribution added in the first year at max (assuming you qualify, which most won’t who contribute) yields around $300K over the same time frame,and has a serious tax burden should it be withdrawn, or converted to an RRSP.
Which would you rather for your child? Or is it about the tax deduction upfront. Eat your cake now, and risk huge tax implications later if your child doesn’t go to school, or risk nothing.
The gov’t seems determined to counter every advantage the LIberals have but I think it is time. It would be nice to wait for the by-election winners to walk in the house but you can’t afford to back down, espeically on this RESP bill.. You’re too in the right, on an issue that is popular with the middle class. If it was just the old budget it would be fine but this the Cons vs. Parliament and the People of Canada. You could win on this issue alone.
TFSA is still a better deal, at a 10% (in a perfect world) return with the maximum contributed annually, an individual will reap close to a $500,000 over 21 years, tax fee. Thats no strings attached.
RESP at the same rate of return, with the Gov’ contribution added in the first year at max (assuming you qualify, which most won’t who contribute) yields around $300K over the same time frame,and has a serious tax burden should it be withdrawn, or converted to an RRSP.
Which would you rather for your child? Or is it about the tax deduction upfront. Eat your cake now, and risk huge tax implications later if your child doesn’t go to school, or risk nothing.
By Joe Calgary on 03.11.08 10:17 am
If this is the case, how is the RESP a threat to government revenue versus me putting my money in the TFSA?
Garth, sit on your hands for this vote. Make RESP part of the Liberal platform to help young Canadians get more educations.
By No fool like an old tory on 03.11.08 9:28 am
Don’t sit on your hands!
If you make it an election issue, you know full well the Cons. will throw it back in your face saying you don’t really want to help kids because you didn’t vote for it the first time round, forgetting of course that they threw in the poison pill!
Vote for the RESP deductability. Defeat the budget and then on this issue you will be consistant.
This Resp bill passed third reading with some conservative members voting for it.(guess Harper doesn’t have such a choke hold on his members as he thought) This was a truly democratic vote and should be allowed to pass. There was no American syle sneak attack, this bill has been around for two years and if I’m not mistaken it is the government who makes up the calendar so Mr F must have known when it was coming forward so is he angry because he let it slip by or because he couldn’t get the votes to defeat it?
This is a good bill to stand up for!
I saw Mr. Dion’s media scrum on this issue and he was saying the Senate should be the place of wise second opinion to decide on this issue. He seemed to be saying that the Senate should halt it. It was a strange position to take and again tells me that we have another political game at play. A game played on the emotions of the people. Garth Turner is using this issue to demonize the Conservatives as per usual. BUT when it comes to standing up and be counted in the vote – His Liberal Party will send in either the Listless Eleven or the Sad Sack
Seven to vote. AND IT WILL BE DEFEATED because Dion gave every indication as did Turner in this article that the Liberals will not stand up to support it.
By Ken on 03.11.08 9:32 am
Ken – The cons, since they came into minority status have been playing to big business and the mass of people who don’t pay attention think that the GST cut is a really good thing, but which most economists say benefits the rich who can afford their big ticket items. Most food is GST exempt. And landlords and many companies aren’t passing on the GST cuts.
Joe Calgary,
Much thanks for the calculation that TFSA will accumulate $500,000 in 21 years.
Now if Little Leroy Fancy Pants pairs with Posh Suzy Kue, together they’ll be able to accumulate $1 million tax free. Their invested principal will be $210,000, and their tax-free savings will be $790,000.
Say, Hey how is TFSA for the poor plebs — not that you have that problem in Calgary, eh?
Go for it. Comes a time Garth .I know I can’t stand to watch Harper subvert democracy then flaunt it in Canadian’s face’s anymore. The bill passed and thats how it works, a system designed by greater minds than Harpos. If he dosen’t like democracy, then lets have an election on that issue. Canadians aren’t stupid , we can spot a dictator 1.6 kilometers away. Fear not but fear its self.
Joe Calgary: TFSA is only a better deal if you can afford it this year which most families can’t. Differing the tax allows us to put the money aside without hitting our very thin bottom lines. And if Jr. doesn’t end up going to school it can be used for the second child with no penalty and if the second banana doesn’t you can role it into your own RRSP.
TSFA is for people who already have money and can afford to invest and make more. It’s a tool for the rich, from the rich to increase their riches. It’s a conservative idea from the people whose people own the oil sands. This in an investment saving fund. It’s a compromise on the gift the cons promised in the last election on reinvested capital. I don’t know how the con got the reputation for being all for the middle class since nothing they do benefits the middle class at all or nearly as much as the rich. GST reduction only helps those who purchase non-essential items. It’s basically a luxury tax and the cons reduce it rather than income tax which would benefit low incomes the most. I really must conclude that their mantra of ‘less gov’t’ appeals to rural voters who have, in general, less education and don’t grasp what the cons are about which is obvious from the opposition to the RESP bill, that less education is also good because it keeps the ignorant voting for the cons and the rich continuing to benefit from this deception.
This new RESP is for families who can now, nearly painlessly, afford university for their children (whose cost keep rising). Between increasing business investment and investment in learning and education you always have to choose education because the while dividends are not immediate the return is greater.
I think it’s time to stop all the Partisan chest pounding and start governing the Country…and if that means election so be it.
Can you pull a procedural trick to delay this vote till after next Monday?
Put up or shut up! The Conservatives won’t allow you idiots to put us back in defecit. Call an election Garth!
Put up or Shut Up!
If your marginal tax rate is greater than 20%, tax deductability is better.
And don’t forget the 20% is only on the first $2500, so the benefit of the CESG could be less!
By James- Chatham on 03.11.08 10:15 am
Good point – but if the ONLY way he can afford to save is with a tax deduction, you’d have assume he can’t save a whole lot more than $2500.
Sheesh, what a poser.
By Georgine on 03.11.08 5:11 am
lol, I have no idea what you`re talking about.
I made the post to find out why the Liberals call RESP a family plan when it`ll help families the least.
Like why didn`t they call it the parliamentary plan or as Harry would say, the old geezers plan?
Simple questions that you answer with some unintelligible muttering about lawyers.
I guess you must like the BC Liberal `Green Budget` that won`t reduce emissions but will bail out the banks. Seems you like buying a load of used hay advertised as green.
Forget about rambling and tell me how do you feel about paying more for gas to bail out the banks.
One last way to save the government is to make both TFSA and RESP available to Canadians. In other words, each tax payer could make ONE choice between the two and stick to it for a number of years.
If Con government still would not compromise, there is no choice but to pull the plug.
I am getting tired of the whole bloody lot of them!
By rural on 03.11.08 8:47 am
Is that what is not fueling Barack Obama? Change! The sad part is Reform/Alliance/Conservative said the same thing. Paul Martin was and is an honourable man/politician and Canadians gave him the boot for telling the truth…..so now what? Now we must live with what 36% of 65% that gave us until the fall of 2009. The sad truth is: the day after the new US president is sworn in The Canadian/US Republican style election will start. Oh happy days!
Put up or shut up! The Conservatives won’t allow you idiots to put us back in defecit. Call an election Garth!
Put up or Shut Up!
By John G on 03.11.08 10:43 am
Reality Check: It was the Cons that fizzled away the surplus on wild spending that did squat for you in the polls. Between this and your party running the marketing program to suggest Harper is a leader is a bust. Your at two strikes out now and rapidly working on the third. Just what were you guys thinking of?
Garth, I’m completely in favour of the RESP, and I don’t even have kids! My parents saved during the greater part of my youth in order to send my brother and me to University, letting me study without getting in a burden of debt, starting my professional life very early, thereby paying more taxes to the govt! The investment in the tax credit is a small price for the Feds to pay compared to many countries who nearly fully subsidize University education (in 1998, a Law degree in Germany was only 200 DM/$185 per year!)
You have no choice, now, you must vote in favour of the RESP and against the budget, or make sure the Senate doesn’t pass it until after the budget. If the Leprechaun complains about not having the money, ask him to release the 18 blacked-out pages of the IT report!
Kill RESP bill or go to polls, Liberals told
Oh Yeah? BRING IT ON DIM JIM…BRING IT ON!, and tell your Boss to take that walk across the street to see the GG.
While you’re at it, pack your bags Jimmy, cause you’re HISTORY!
Canadians weigh in on NAFTA: 45 per cent of respondents think trade agreement should be renegotiated, new survey finds
A new poll by his firm found that 51 per cent of Canadians think the United States has been the big winner in the trade agreement. Only 8 per cent think Canada has come out ahead of its two trading partners – the U.S. and Mexico.
Aned while you’re at it…SMACK Polution Boy, Baird, up side the head.
U.S. May Protect Oil Sands
Again, the corrupt politicians can’t find their balls to do what it right!
(Note: Watch National Post today…their server is being weird!)
By the way Afghanistan, can anyone who truly supports our troops (and I do not mean wearing Red on Fridays, bumper stickers or watching DC on HNIC) knows the ETA for 1,000 battle ready on the ground in Kandahar?
By Blaine LeRoy on 03.11.08 10:38 am
Good government deserves our supoport: Let’s vote a new one in!
There are so many separate but related issues around the subject that I don’t know where to start with my two cents.
The question all comes down to one of priorities. The other day I saw an interview with Chuck Strahl with regard to the need for a school for a Native reservation in Northern Ontario (Charlie Angus’ riding). The former school was contaminated by an oil link from nearby tanks and the children have been in cold, poorly maintained, inadequate portable classrooms for the past eight years. Anyone who has every used portable classrooms can tell you that they are inadequate and designed to be only temporary not a long term solution. Strahl made it clear that this school was not a priority.
It seems easy for the Conservatives to determine priorities but it is becoming more and more apparent that their priorities are not the priorities of a large number of Canadians.
For me the provision of a good learning environment for our Native children should be a priority and a much higher priority than tax cuts or tax free savings accounts or the war in Afghanistan. The government brags about providing schools in Afghanistan but won’t supply the need at home.
The RESP savings account verses other tax cutting measures underlies the whole concept of priorities.
Most Canadians place a high priority on education. The new Conservatives place a high priority on dismantling the fiscal capacity of government in order to facilitate wealth accumulation in the private sector.
The basic fact is that the new Conservative government has admitted that it has diminished its fiscal capacity so much by its tax measures and its priority spending that it has reduced its fiscal capacity to dangerous levels.
From what Flaherty is telling us there is no cushion in the budget to deal with unexpected contingencies. In my opinion, the creation of such a situation represents poor fiscal management. At the same time, this kind of fiscal management represents the priority of the new Conservatives to dismantle the ability of the federal government to act as a positive influence in the lives of Canadians.
To summarize the RESP bill is illustrating two points: (1) there is reason to believe that the priorities of the new Conservative Party are not in tune with the priorities of large numbers of Canadians; (2) that the Conservative government’s fiscal manager is shown to be inadequate because it eliminated the cushion, established by the previous administation, required to deal with unanticipated continguencies .
RESP tax deductibility is exactly the sort of measure that working families need to encourage their children into higher education and build our knowledge based economy. This would be a good issue to vote down the government and start an election.
The TFSA is a tax sucking joke but I love it. Imagine; $100,000 socked away/ earning away and I’M collecting the GIS…or $1,000,000 and collecting the GIS. The RESP is another tax sucking joke. Pretty soon there will be only a few of us stupid shmucks left to pick up the tax tab. Wadda ya gonna do when we migrate to Florida…keep paying our OHIP premiums I hope.
TSFA is for people who already have money and can afford to invest and make more. It’s a tool for the rich, from the rich to increase their riches. It’s a conservative idea from the people whose people own the oil sands. This in an investment saving fund. It’s a compromise on the gift the cons promised in the last election on reinvested capital. I don’t know how the con got the reputation for being all for the middle class since nothing they do benefits the middle class at all or nearly as much as the rich. GST reduction only helps those who purchase non-essential items. It’s basically a luxury tax and the cons reduce it rather than income tax which would benefit low incomes the most. I really must conclude that their mantra of ‘less gov’t’ appeals to rural voters who have, in general, less education and don’t grasp what the cons are about which is obvious from the opposition to the RESP bill, that less education is also good because it keeps the ignorant voting for the cons and the rich continuing to benefit from this deception.
By Kieran Brown on 03.11.08 10:35 am
Agree Kieran.
I don’t agree with Harper on much, but if it’s a choice between the two, I would much rather have a TFSA than an RESP deduction. Here’s why:
1 – Having my savings grow tax free will save more money down the road than getting a tax rebate this year will, and then having to pay capital gains.
2 – Unless I’m greatly mistaken, making RESP contributions tax deductible will mean that students are taxed on the withdrawals, the same as an RRSP, no? I think the reality is that the same people will be making RESP contributions after a change as are making them today, so this would simply delay the taxation, and I’m really having a hard time seeing how this benefits anyone.
Put up or shut up! The Conservatives won’t allow you idiots to put us back in defecit. Call an election Garth!
Put up or Shut Up!
By John G on 03.11.08 10:43 am
I guess John G you were in a coma the last 15 years. It was the Libs who had to clean up the Mulrooney deficit and left $13- $15B in surplus when the cons got in with a minority govt. Did you not read Flanagan’s msg or do you just reag all things that are pro-con. Its the cons that are screwing the country, creating the lowest surplus in years, and only 2+ years in power. And, all for votes in their quest of a majority, yet their poll numbers are about the same since they attained their minority status. They just don’t get it – Canadians don’t trust them.
When is Flaherty supposed to show up in Committee to reveal and defend his 18 blacked-out pages of ‘leakage’? Perhaps he’s desperate for the fall of the government to avoid this? If so, one more reason to let the Harper Conservatives fester.
By Pecked 03.11.08 9:40 am
Gotta love some of these terms
BC green budget should be called bankers budget
RESP called family plan?
Credit crunch should be called 0 consumer spending power
Are we all glad millions of us are online so we can all laugh together?
Internet, 100. Media spinners 0
Outfit in the states has developed a manure gas generator. It looks big enough to fit over the parliament building to turn all that bull shit into something useful…
24 months and little or no work done
Garth, I’m completely in favour of the RESP, and I don’t even have kids! My parents saved during the greater part of my youth in order to send my brother and me to University, letting me study without getting in a burden of debt, starting my professional life very early, thereby paying more taxes to the govt! The investment in the tax credit is a small price for the Feds to pay compared to many countries who nearly fully subsidize University education (in 1998, a Law degree in Germany was only 200 DM/$185 per year!)
You have no choice, now, you must vote in favour of the RESP and against the budget, or make sure the Senate doesn’t pass it until after the budget. If the Leprechaun complains about not having the money, ask him to release the 18 blacked-out pages of the IT report!
By Jonnay on 03.11.08 10:53 am
Agree Jonnay – ask him about the billions in losses to the Govt coffers re ITs.
Re Law Degree in Germany. Not sure if this is the norm, but one of our friends in Germany, a family court judge, earns very little in comparison to a Cdn one. One of their friends, a Dr. emigrated to NS last year and is practicing medicine. Drs. in Germany, apparently, also earn very little in comparison to Cda. Our friends in Germany would dearly love to move here, but she’d have to re-educate herself in Cdn law and, based on their circumstances, I don’t see it happening soon. They’re planning to visit this summer so well’ll see. BTW, they’ve been visiting not just NS, but Cda for years and love the wide open spaces.
Garth pls get Ms. Martin out of that banana republic called Mexico. My MP seems incapable of handling the issue and the PM seems not to care. Why are we afraid of Mexico. One call the Calderone that goes like this. “We want our citizen back by the emd of today or Canada is imposing a complete travel ban on Mexico.” stand up for Canda Stephen Harper.
So why is it that a tax deduction (for those who can use it) that will cost the government about a billion such a great deal for Canadians, worthy of an election for most here, but ten billion worth of tax cuts (GST) for everyone has been dismissed as a joke, hardly a cup of coffee a day? Seems a little hypocritical.
Kerry
So, what should the strategy be this week? Vote for the RESP bill which middle-class Canadians so clearly want – the kind of reform which brought me back to Ottawa? In doing so, should we risk giving the Conservatives an election at the wrong moment, a time of their choosing? Should we bite our tongues, sit on our hands, and await the better day to sweep away Mr. Harper? Is this a time for principle or strategy? Or is it simply the instant at which an untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer?
Stay tuned.
posted by Garth Turner on 03.10.08 @ 8:36 pm
…………………………………
“Principle” or “strategy” you ask, Garth.
Perhaps you should clarify what “principles” you operate by, because all we have seen you do is abstain for “strategy” reasons.
If you again abstain, or permit the Liberal Senate to kill the RESP, that will be a “strategic” move, to live another day to fight. That will also tell us that your “principles’ be damned as far as Dion is concerned.
I always thought of you as a “principled” politician standing up for independent action based on those principles. Now we have seen you as a strategic politician who has become a team player and abandoned his previously stated principles.
Personally, I think you must stand for your principles on this issue, and if you don’t you risk being booted out of Halton. You have asked us what your strategy should be, and I say stand on your principles and vote against the government.
Careful what you wish for
Kady O’Malley | March 11, 2008 | 07:28:18 | Permalink
kady.omalley@macleans.rogers.com
Oh, Conservatives.
The Harper government turned the tables on the Liberals, daring them to fight an election over the $900-million tax break a united Opposition pushed through the House of Commons last week …
Another tie-Parliament-to-the-railway-tracks gambit?
… The federal government will introduce a budget measure to kill a Liberal-initiated bill … the decision means the Liberals will have to abandon their plan or risk defeating the budget and triggering an election, which they have so far refused to do …
Really?
… [Flaherty] dared the Liberals to vote against the budget implementation bill. As a confidence motion, a defeat of the bill would trigger an election …
Really?
You know, at this point, I can’t help but wonder if you might be falling into one of the very same bear traps you have so industriously dug for Stephane Dion, who has, at least so far, resisted your Disneyesque attempts to herd his party off the cliffs like so many terrorized lemmings.
Here’s the thing, Conservatives: I know it must seem like the simplest equation in the world: If the Liberals don’t want an election, you should do everything in your power – short of, you know, having the PM stroll down to Rideau Hall for a chat with the Geeje – to force the issue – despite the fact that you still haven’t managed to settle comfortably into the magic 40% support bracket – not for more than one poll every six months or so, anyway.
Even more unsettling: despite your best efforts to convince Canadians that Stephane Dion Is Not A Leader, the Liberals haven’t fallen much below the mid-to-high 20s, even during the height — or was it the nadir? — of Outremont-induced party psychosis.
The last few polls, in fact, have shown your two parties locked in a statistical tie. Dion may not want an election – although depending on which Liberal insider is whispering in your ear on any given day, maybe he does, and it’s the rest of the party leadership that has gone wobbly. But just because he – or, at least, his party – hasn’t yet leapt at the chance to head out on the hustings doesn’t mean that your party – and especially your leader – should invariably take the opposing position, and put the fate of your government on the line at every opportunity.
Transforming an otherwise ordinary vote into a matter of confidence – directly or, as would be the case with the RESP bill, indirectly – may be the sole privilege of the governing party, but that doesn’t mean it should be hauled out every time you run into a roadblock in the House. Even though, as the saying goes, when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything can start to look like a nail.
Conservatives, I’m going to be brutally frank: You seem to be on the verge of commiting a classic tactical error by assuming that whatever course of action would be – or, at least, seems as though it would be, based on their reaction to the possibility – bad for the Liberals is automatically good for your party. It would be much easier if that were the case, but it doesn’t necessarily follow. QE not so D.
Politics is not a binary solution set, nor does it possess the elegant simplicity of chess. It is entirely possible – mathematically, politically, and historically – for everyone to lose. In fact, in that sense, it’s more like a high stakes game of blackjack, and so far, you’ve been able to bluff the Liberals into folding, even when the cards you were holding weren’t all that much better than Dion’s hand. But any gambler will tell you that eventually, either the odds will turn against you, or even the most timid opponent will refuse to back down, because he or she realizes that you have just as much to lose.
When the House returns after the Easter break, Ottawa will be a very different place. The snow will be gone – at least, it better be gone, or the inhabitants may by that point have evacuated the city to establish a toe-hold Canadian utopia in Belize – and the Hill will be covered in crocuses and spring-dazed stray cats.
More importantly for your short-term planning purposes, however, is that there will likely be either three or four new Liberal MPs, and the spectre of the last round of byelections will no longer be hanging over the opposition benches, a grim reminder of the electoral fiasco of last fall. And on the Order Paper – at least, if you carry out your threat – an RESP-shredding razor blade will be embedded in an otherwise benign budget implementation bill, which, in a serendipitous twist, could conceivably go to a vote on the very first Tuesday. Happy April Fools.
Keeping all that in mind, the question that you ought to be pondering now isn’t ‘Do you feel lucky?’ It is ‘How lucky will you feel after the next hand is dealt?’
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dis&eid=48&so=&ps=&sb=
The many lines of one James Moore
Kady O’Malley | March 10, 2008 | 16:55:38 | Permalink
kady.omalley@macleans.rogers.com
During Question Period today, in response to a question from Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe, official Cadman Downplayer James Moore gave this reply:
Monsieur le Président, oui, le premier ministre et tout le monde dans notre caucus savaient qu’il y avait une offre pour que Chuck Cadman soit réintégré dans notre caucus, qu’il se présente et soit réélu en tant que candidat du Parti conservateur.
Okay, maybe something got lost in translation, but James Moore really saying that every single Conservative MP with a seat in the House circa May 2005 was aware that the party was offering to bring Chuck Cadman back into the Tory fold? Was there an official announcement? And if that’s the case, why didn’t any of those MPs find it odd when the original line of defence was that no offer had been made?
Also, how does that correspond with what he said just a few minutes later to Marlene Jennings?
Mr. Speaker, what I said in the House last week, what was reported was that at the time I knew the details of the meeting on May 19. That is what was reported and that element is in fact entirely not true.
I had no information about what was specifically offered on the May 19 meeting. We now do know what was offered on the May 19 meeting. They were the three elements that I have already said in the House a number of times.
[...]
I did not know what was going on, on May 19, 2005, but we do now know. Chuck Cadman himself said what happened at the meeting and his words are very clear.
I guess you could argue that he may not have been aware that the offer – the alleged invitation to rejoin caucus, that is – was being made at that particular meeting, but that doesn’t necessarily contradict Lawrence Martin’s recollection of what Moore apparently knew at the time, does it?
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dip&tt=&pid=110406&tid=110406&eid=48&so=&ps=&sb=&tso=&tps=&tsb=
Speaking of leak investigations …
Kady O’Malley | March 10, 2008 | 12:05:15 | Permalink
kady.omalley@macleans.rogers.com
(Which, yes, I promise that I’ll be doing very soon, once I’ve dealt with all the random bits of flotsam and jetsam that floated to the surface during my Monday morning datacrawl.)
From Monday’s Globe and Mail (emphasis added):
The RCMP was preparing to charge at least one federal official for leaking Liberal government plans for income trusts in 2005 but was foiled when the official secrets law was gutted by an unrelated court ruling, documents and sources say.
This new information appears to undermine the former Liberal government’s assurances that there was no advance leak of their market-moving decision to forgo a tax on trusts in late November of 2005.
The Liberals were sideswiped during the last federal election when the RCMP announced a politically explosive probe into allegations of a leak midway through the campaign. The party claimed vindication when the investigation concluded in February of 2007 without laying any charges for leaking information.
In the end, the Mounties only charged Finance bureaucrat Serge Nadeau under the Criminal Code with breach of trust for allegedly purchasing securities for his own benefit using advance knowledge of the government’s trust plans.
However, a draft internal RCMP communications plan from August, 2006, showed they also planned to charge at least one other person – under the Security of Information Act.
At the time, the act included strict provisions that criminalized the leaking of federal secrets.
“The [two sets of] charges relate to the inappropriate dissemination of information and the use to which that was put. The charges differ because of differences in what we believe the individuals who are charged did with the information they had,” the document obtained by The Globe and Mail said.
The RCMP communications plan does not indicate whether the person they were preparing to charge for breaching official secrets law was a civil servant or Liberal political staffer.
That got me thinking about the status of another investigation into income trust-related leaks: The Chair-Initiated Complaint into the Public Disclosure by the RCMP of its Criminal Investigation Regarding the Taxation of Canadian Corporate Dividends and Income Trusts, to be specific.
Launched by RCMP Public Complaints Commissioner Paul Kennedy over a year ago, it was supposed to look into “the public disclosure by members of the RCMP to Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis, M.P. on December 23, 2005, that it would be commencing a criminal investigation in relation to a possible breach of security or illegal transfer of information in advance of the federal government’s announcement of changes to the taxation of Canadian Corporate Dividends and Income Trusts,” as well as “additional disclosure contained in an RCMP press release dated December 28, 2005.”
Since that day, however, there has been a distinct lack of news on the progress of the investigation. As in, none at all. Presumably, if the whole thing had been dropped, there would be some sort of notice given, but there is nothing on the website beyond the initial announcement by the chair: no interim or status reports; no update of any kind at all. It’s as though it never happened. To reassure ourselves that ITQ didn’t hallucinate the whole thing, we’ve sent an email to the commission. Further bulletins as events warrant. (No, we’re never, ever going to deploy the Drudge-ian ‘DEVELOPING’.)
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dip&tt=&pid=110342&tid=110342&eid=48&so=&ps=&sb=&tso=&tps=&tsb=
Note the last 3 paras. Yes, when will we get to the bottom of those 18 blacked out pages.
Garth Turner,
There are lots of reasons for Canadians not to like or trust Harper’s Conservative government. The Cadman affair(plus the libel suit), the chalk river crisis and firing of Ms. Keen, the Afghanistan prison transfer affair, the mismanaging of the federal treasury and the NAFTA gate affair show that this government is corrupt, arrogant and incompetent. And now, the RESP issue shows that they are out of touch with what Canadians want and expect from their federal government…..Harper is also widely know to be a cold control freak. If there were ever a time to take them down, now would be it. Besides, I think their motion is nothing but a bluff.
The Conservatives were so stupid to let a cool and competent MP like you go.
KPN
Sry the non-partisan truth based of facts bothers you so much but as the big money players, most politicians and the majority of media already knows I can`t see the harm in letting a few Cdns in on the game.
Still you can rest easy, although I got a reprieve and am currently following up on another option I doubt success so I`ll probably be gone soon.
I don’t agree with Harper on much, but if it’s a choice between the two, I would much rather have a TFSA than an RESP deduction. Here’s why:
1 – Having my savings grow tax free will save more money down the road than getting a tax rebate this year will, and then having to pay capital gains.
2 – Unless I’m greatly mistaken, making RESP contributions tax deductible will mean that students are taxed on the withdrawals, the same as an RRSP, no? I think the reality is that the same people will be making RESP contributions after a change as are making them today, so this would simply delay the taxation, and I’m really having a hard time seeing how this benefits anyone.
By Neil on 03.11.08 11:23 am
1 -You don’t pay capital gains tax in RESPs.
2 -RESP withdrawals are taxed as income in the hands of students that generally have low incomes.
Just so you know, getting a tax refund for my RESP contribution would greatly increase the attractiveness of this over the current system.
John G – the Conservatives haven’t balanced a budget “on their own” since approx 1912. The monies they have now are from the foundation the Liberals built and their heading towards deficits again. Do you not pay attention to historical facts?
If the Conservatives are squeamish about McTeague’s plan saying it would put us into deficit – that is proof that they’re running out of money and heading in that direction.
Leasa – you know why the CPC are planning to clean up Lake Simcoe? Hmmm….do you? Well there are CPC MP’s there – and especially Guergis who’s family (nepotism at its worst) are in trouble for some environmental issues. Her dad and brother are both in the government in her riding, one is mayor. Wake up – do your homework.
Garth,
The House of Comedy is such a huge waste of time. all you guys do is blowhard on both sides, and hope to score a few points with the cheerleader judges in the Press Gallery. Garth, you and the other opposition MPs should get useful lives. Here’s my tip.
Boycott that verbal cesspool. Open up a place called “Hotel Education” and run seminars on democracy, finance and tax for the nimrods in the national press.
The Guergises – love ‘em or lynch ‘em
A while ago I wrote about the growing stigma surrounding the Guergis name in MP Helena Guergis’ riding of Simcoe-Grey, tongue in cheek suggesting she press Rahim Jaffer to pop the question before the election and take his name to give her some distance. Well, she’s halfway there now! Guergis’ engagement announcement this week is a welcome boon in the news cycle as her family’s involvement in a local dump proposal there continues to hurt her at home. In the same blog entry where I joked that Guergis should take Jaffer’s name I also said her constituents would stop just short of burning her and her brother, local mayor Tony Guergis, in effigy at a fall festival in her riding. Turns out I underestimated public anger. To her credit Helena escaped symbolic lynching but her brother’s effigy was hung to a surprising number of cheers and then paraded about on a float in the fall fair (Helena, Tony, you might want to reconsider any invites to ride on the lead float next year, just a thought). Guergis’ riding is a well known tourist destination boasting a number of resorts and warm hospitality, but when it comes down to honeymoon planning the happy couple might want to consider other destinations.
h/t CastorRouge
By Pecked 03.11.08 9:40 am
P
Do you think many people understand the bank bailouts won`t put money into broke consumers pockets. For that matter do they even understand that tax payers are picking up the tab for exuberant consumer spending fueled by unsustainable lending practices? Have they the slightest clue that it`s a huge hope and prayer parachute to slow down personal bankruptcies?
lol, It`s enough methane to power Ottawa for a generation.
By Neil on 03.11.08 11:23 am
Neil, how people spend or invest their earned income is in-itself always been in the sights of investment brokers. When we get a tax rebate we have a choice how to spend it, tax rebates are seen for the most part as spending money, so the money is returned back into the economy (timely sales always appear at this time of year) having said that it is truly a win….win win situation, the student wins, the investors win and the person (s) who has put the money away win at tax time, not to mention self esteem BUT you say the government looses tax money. We all agree that absolutely no government in history has ever lost by providing education to it’s children least of all higher education. Show me a well educated town, city or country and I will show you a strong productive populace!
Hey Leasa – there’s more:
Her star rising in the conservative cabinet, Secretary of State Helena Guergis might be considering a name change as recent weeks have seen her family name fall to Earth with a splat back home, miring her in a complex web of deceit surrounding an environmental/political scandal in her riding.
The scandal involves a proposed dump site and a tale of old fashioned nepotism. Hailing from Simcoe-Grey, Helena has built an all consuming power base for herself since coming to office, ensuring many of her close allies were put in positions of power locally, amongst these family members Dave and Tony Guergis who since her climb to power have used her organization to become mayors of the townships of Essa and Springwater respectively, comprising a major chunk of Helena’s riding.
This arrangement might still be working fine for everyone if it weren’t for one thing, a proposed dump designated Site 41. Proposed in the early 80’s, this dump site has been the bane of politics in Helena’s riding and the surrounding area over the years. Not just another case of not-in-my-back-yard syndrome, the dump proposal has stalled for three decades because shortly after the proposal was initially made it was discovered the major water table feeding the entire area runs right through the proposed site. This fact, and the expansion of one of the local towns over three decades right next to the now proposed dump, made the proposition flounder to the point of seeming defeat, but in a crucial municipal vote both Dave and Tony Guergis (whose township would contain the dump) along with their conservatively affiliated municipal allies passed a motion to begin construction of the dump site, environmental issues notwithstanding.
Helena is now in damage control back home, putting distance between her family and network, still trumpeting her environmental concern over the dump while trying to convince everyone she had no sway at all over her key picked people, least of all her family, that have put this all in motion. This coming weekend the town closest to the proposed dump, Elmvale ON, will be holding a Water Festival in opposition to the landfill and likely will stop just short of burning the Guergis’ in effigy (not quite the barbeque circuit she had in mind this summer). My advice to Helena, get Rahim to pop the question before the election and take his name (who would have ever guessed that would be the lesser evil) and next time you play puppet-master use longer strings to give yourself some distance between you and your dummies.
By Neil on 03.11.08 11:23 am
Rubbish!
1. TFSA vs RESP. The contributions for both are after tax dollars and grow tax free. So if you have a 20% tax refund/CESG you’ll have more money at the end. RESP better.
2. When the RESP is withdrawn,
a. If used for education, it is taxed in the hands of the child. So long as the childs tax rate is equivalent or less to the assumed tax refund of the CESG, the kid will be ahead.
b. If it is not used for education, it can be rolled tax free, CESG included, into a RRSP, RRSP limit allowing.
c. If not used for education of rolled into an RRSP, the CESG is given back dollar for dollar, 20% of the growth (assumed growth on invested CESG) is also given back, and the rest taxed. Only in this scenario could you have less than a TFSA.
But why are you putting the money into an RESP. To save for education, which is scenario a., the RESP being better than the TFSA.
Good question Garth,
It may be just me but it seems that Mr. Dion is the only one in Ottawa who has an interest trying to make the government work. I find his respect for the electorate (they did after all give these goons a minority) commendable. This has gained him nothing but ridicule from the many.
I say if Mr. Dion and the Liberals are the only ones interested in governing lets convince the electorate that they should be the government.
I wouldn’t worry about the bye-elections too much because that momentum should carry over into a general election.
In sum, I would suggest this may be as good a time as any to go to an election (time to do some spring cleaning).
I sure hope the Liberal’s policy and logistics are ready to go (positive stuff) – and there is certainly enough to hammer the CRAPers on (negative stuff).
I agree that we should have sanctions against this corrupt country which include all travel. What would be the repercussions? Should be pull a ‘Cuba-U.S. style sanction’ on Mexico?
Leasa
By Leasa on 03.11.08 8:45 am
To be vulger, screw the repercussions for this. Mr. Harper wants to flex his muscle internationally I see no better moment in time that this. Much as I hate to say it it would play well with the populace, a vote getter if ever there was one. As for repercussions so I won’t be able to by avacado’s for a while.
First I support the RESP bill (what a surprise !) as I stand to benefit a lot from it.
On teh other hand, I think that, as a matter of principle, the oposition should not be tabling money bills to be attached to the budget. If they want changes in the budget they either negotiate with the government or bring the government down and create their own budget if they win.
I have confessed here that I am a right supporter. I have and still support the CPC however I can not say that I am fully satisfied with them. Where they dissapointed me the most is that they are governing as if they are Liberals and that’s not why they got my vote. However, in the next election I do not see many alternatives as anything from Liberals left wioll never get my vote.
Gath, had you stayed independent, you might have gotten my vote as there are a few of your own positions (when unwhipped) that I really support:
1. Lebanon evacuation
2. Income splitting
3. RESP
4. No floor crossing
5. Your support on the Burlington bar owner
So, explain why you like me when I speak out on these things – and have no influence in Parliament as an Indie – but don’t support me when I do. I fail to see your logic. — Garth
Hmm..What is that tune I hear? Sounds like the old Charlie Daniel’s fiddle battle royale..’The Devil Came to Ottawa!’
Eh, if that the united Opposition I hear challenging him to a duel?
This will be verrrrrry interesting indeed.
And Caesar Disgustus thought he was calling the tune! Play Nero, PLAY!
Leasa, you are full of **it.
By Lana on 03.11.08 8:52 am
…and just exactly which part did you not agree with?
By slg on 03.11.08 12:31 pm
A lot of MPs have family members in politics. Take the McGuintys for example. According to your theory here, which one of those two greased the wheels for which?
Why would the people elect Helena and her brothers if they were so evil? You’ve made a lot of accusations here. Got anything to back them up?
Leasa
kpn on 03.11.08 11:30 am,
You need to remember that the Mulroney government did not intentionally create a deficit. In fact, it was the deficit they inherited coupled with high interest rates and their reluctant to cut social spending that caused the increase under the PC government. One of the reasons that Reform was successful is that so many felt that the Canadian government should not fund social programs and they left the PC Party because they wanted social spending cut.
The Liberals were willing to cut the spending and get the deficit under control on the backs of the lower and middle income groups and Canadians accepted that. It led to increasing inequality (the rich have gotten much richer). It is the same upper income groups that benefit most by both Liberal and Conservative tax cuts.
At one time there was a belief at the upper levels of Canadian political life that the tax system could be used to control the growth of inequality. Under all governments starting with Trudeau the focus has been on policies that do the opposite based on the theory that increasing inequality is the only way to increase economic growth.
So it looks like the govt is the opposition and the opposition is the govt.
The govt is opposing a bill passed by the parliament. Huh? Shouldn’t this be the job of the opposition?
If the bill fails to pass, will the opposition fall?
By opposing this bill, the govt shows its true color when it comes to tax reduction.
All the little gimmicks just don’t work anymore.
Since I don’t have any kids to concern myself with and I haven’t got a red cent to save I’ll save my views for Ms. Brenda Martin.
It disgusts me that this poor lady is rotting for no reason in a Mexican jail while the minister responsible lies about her attempts to help her, and then does nothing at all to help. She needs a swift kick in the arse while she’s being escorted from her office to the nearest sidewalk.
Garth, my question is, what are you guys doing to help this lady? Any suggestions on what we as citizens can do to help?
Your leader doesnt have the guts to call an election. The RESP program at this time isnt viable and throws the governments finances out of whack. Good idea but wrong time.
Dare ya…get your leader to call an election. If he wont, we dare ya to vote against Dions wishes.
Go ahead…and dont say “just watch!” You have no money for an election and your party is waiting for the break on the leadership debts from elections canada at the expense of Canadians.
Go ahead…double dog dare ya.
Good point – but if the ONLY way he can afford to save is with a tax deduction, you’d have assume he can’t save a whole lot more than $2500.
By give me a break on 03.11.08 10:44 am
You know, I thought of that and almost changed my view.
However, if its a choice between the CESG and the tax deductability, for those in the lowest tax bracket of 21%, consider this:
Invest $1000 get $210 back
Therefore the RESP has $1000 for $790 out of pocket.
Now consider old rules: invest $790 out of pocket, get 20%, $158, total in RESP account $948.
I’ll agree, tax deductability gives the bigger bang for the buck. And of course those with a higher tax rate will get a even bigger bang.
But the person still has to find the $760 out of pocket either way. Not being tax deductable is an excuse not a reason.
One more point to add to the mix..
for the low income earners, the CESG can be more than 20%.
Mr. Break, you figure out the numbers, but the person still has to contribute out of their own pocket.
At one time there was a belief at the upper levels of Canadian political life that the tax system could be used to control the growth of inequality. Under all governments starting with Trudeau the focus has been on policies that do the opposite based on the theory that increasing inequality is the only way to increase economic growth.
By C. B. Innes on 03.11.08 1:11 pm
Good wake up call for the blind partisans CB.
“tax system could be used to control the growth”
I`ll add this is what caused the 1929 economic collapse although this time around it won`t be suffocating taxes, it`ll be suffocating debt.
We are still dealing with the Marxist leanings of Trudeau where the public is considered nothing more than a means to fuel the elite.
2 years and little or no work done for the people, it`s all been one long election campaign for the Parties.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Is PMSH in the House for QP today?
No. — Garth
Something to think about, Garth mentioned this was a plan to spark an election that Stevie boy wants oh so badly…correct? yes.(one would have to living in la la land to believe anything else) good God the welfare of Canadians has never been on his mind. So remember when the Kelowna Accord was voted on and passed by the majority, PMSH just ignored it…….so why did just not do the same with the RESP, and will what will he do if this type of thing pops up again? In any rate look south and you will see just how quick a leaders luck can change. Bullies never win, tide and time stop for no man.
The govt is opposing a bill passed by the parliament. Huh? Shouldn’t this be the job of the opposition?
By Larry on 03.11.08 1:14 pm
No, the true job of the opposition is to force government to do the work of the constituents which RESP is a feeble attempt but none the less an attempt, even if it`ll have better election optics than giving failing families a break,,, even if passed.
I say feeble because there are critical issues facing Canada that are not being addressed like the collapsed rule of law, the loss of international investors in our country, the unbelievable high number of crimes that go unreported and the total lack of action on that score.
Now we`re at the point where tax payers have to bail out the unsustainable lending practices of the banks which is tacked onto the next generation that will be outnumbered by seniors with RESP`s.
Now that I reread this I realize it`s just another rant on how dysfunctional our federal government is. Just ignore me as we all float out over the cliff, I`m sure they must have some sort of anti-gravity device to save us all.
More Buys by government!
Kellogg’s gets $9.7M from province
Ontario’s government says it will invest $9.7-million to support Kellogg’s new plant in the Quinte region, which will produce Mini-Wheats cereal.
Kellogg (NYSE: K) will hire about 100 new employees for the $97-million plant, which began construction in October 2006.
Okay, that figures out to $97,000 per employee! How long will that take for their taxes to reimburse the rest of us?
Why are we supporting a very well established American company with taxpayer money?
James,
Firstly, there is a lifetime cap of 50K on RESP contributions vs a $5K annual cap on TFSA… over 21 years thats half the amount contributable to a TFSA. advantage TFSA.
Secondly, the tax break of 20% upfront and the Gov. contribution are completely eclipsed by the amount you can contribute into a TFSA over the long haul, additionally, withdrawel from a TFSA is tax-fee, advantage TFSA.
You predicate everything on the assumption that the child will go to school. Big assumption. If they don’t, the government component is gone, and the withdrawal is assessed at earned income tax rates, plus 20%. The TFSA has no tax burden. Advantage TFSA.
Thirdly, when an RESP is rolled into an RRSP, it is done tax free, right up til you withdraw the RRSP, taxed at around 40%. (RRSP withdrawel x 1.25% x .45 percent) TFSA, tax free. Advantage TFSA.
The only instance where the advantage goes to the RESP is if the child goes to school, and thats assuming that you can never contribute more than the maximum allowed.
That, when your all screaming that this is just for rich people, and statistically only 1 out of 3 of you bitchers and complainers will bother to put a cent away for your kids anyways.
What if the child wants to start a business, or travel, or get married and have children of their own, maybe build a house?
You’d handcuff your own child, limit the decisions they make, so you can feel good that your preparing the funding for their schooling, and get an upfront taxbreak… which most of you bullshitters won’t bother doing anything with anyway, or truely can’t afford to utilize to begin with.
A family that can’t afford to partake today in an RRSP, is just as unlikely to partake tomorrow because there’s a tax break. Nor is an increase in the contribution level or a 20% tax break going to make a difference either.
That only helps those who can afford to take advantage of it, and those that can afford to, lose the advantage on the amount provided by the Government.
Just think to the party you support, they think you’ll just spend it on beer and popcorn anyways, and statistically their right… 2 out of 3 of you will.
Instead of creating the most flexible senario of a savings account that anyone can put money into for your child, and your greedy little bingo splotched hands wouldn’t be able to touch.
But, being patsy little prol’s like you all are, you’ll go and support the methodologies that line your personal pockets, at the expense of your future or your childs futures.
Bravo. Go ahead and support it Garth, in the end it matters not a wit to me. It’s you who has to look himself in the mirror every morning, and by the time you jackoff’s find your way back into power, and back into my pocketbook, I’ll have wrapped it up and be sunning on a beach.
Let’s get some balls Garth….bring Harper down over this. I don’t know if I can take much more sitting on my hands.
We’re groping. — Garth
FYI
No need to post this
Your clock on the posts seems to need reseting, is seems out about 15-30 min.
Ottawa mean time. — Garth
When will all Canadians be advised by this Steven Government to NOT travel to Mexico!
Go to an election when you can see a Liberal majority.
By No fool like an old tory on 03.10.08 11:28 pm
That will never happen as long as Dion is leader. In fact I will say that the Liberals will never from even a minority government as long sa Dion is leader. The Conservatives on gthe other hand will never form a majority government as long as Harper is the leader. I predict that we will continue to have minority Conservative Governments as long as these two leaders are ahead of their repective parties. About the only good thing of having an elction now is that one of them will be gone after the election and it appears it will be Dion. That is if he lasts that long.
Why are we supporting a very well established American company with taxpayer money?
By Bill on 03.11.08 2:21 pm
Investors can`t be forced into a bad investment but we can?
Garth, as a life long conservative in Alberta, I’m finding it more and more difficult to support the Harper government. The fact that a majority in opposition can pass a bill such as this amuses me. Now if you could clone yourself and run in my riding, I wouldn’t hesitate to vote for you.
So, explain why you like me when I speak out on these things – and have no influence in Parliament as an Indie – but don’t support me when I do. I fail to see your logic. — Garth
By AD on 03.11.08 1:06 pm
Because, first and foremost I do trust Liberals less than I trust Conservatives (better than NDP or Block though
).
I alos do not agree with most of the Liberal priorities and the way they did hspae this country in the last decade. I do not support their legislation of political correctness and the powers they gave to the judiciary.
As for supporting Garth, outside of his party affiliation) I am practically torn in two: sometimes you come through as a very decent guy with common sense (not to be confused with the Common Sense Revolution) that will stand up for what YOU believe in, others as this megalomaniac that only loves himselfs.
I never doubt your honesty though.
Garth, the above might hurt, however this is my honest and frank opinion, no sugar coating, no political correctness BS.
With regards to Canadians in Mexican jail without chages or a day in court.
What exactly has Steven signed way when the secrative SPP deal was signed????
Garth,
Just wondering, How’d you vote last night?
Hello……
By Leasa on 03.11.08 8:45 am
“As much as we would want to, we cannot intervene with a foreign government’s judges and court system.”
Governments interfere with each other’s legal systems all the time. It’s called diplomacy. If a (rich) friend of the Cons had been charged with something in Mexico, they would have been out of the country and back on Canadian soil before the ink had even dried on the charge sheet. Brenda Martin is under sedation and in the prison hospital under suicide watch. This is how much the Con government cares for its citizens.
Dan McTeague – “The bigger they are. The harder they fall.”
If Stevie goes over, that would produce at least a 7 on the Richter scale. Hope the Houses of Parliament are earthquake proof.
Garth – “It will be harder to called Stephane Dion “not a leader” when he has just handed them their ass.”
With asses that size, I think he might need a little mechanical assistance – like a heavy-duty fork-lift.
Stick a fork-lift in him! He’s done!
Since the Harpos are just about salivating to have an election, it makes you not want to give them one, doesn’t it? The tax-deductible RESP is a great idea, but it can wait a little. It can always be reintroduced. Harper has drawn so many lines in the sand, there’s no telling where the boundaries are anymore.
I wouldn’t like to have to make that decision – so I’ll cop out and leave it to you guys (of both genders).
As to Helena Guergis and Rahim Jaffer and their wedding plans, I would like to offer a toast.
“May you both get what you deserve!”
Mr. Turner, this is it. The Cons are anti-family, pro-tax, anti-education…
Had they managed the Treasury better, they wouldn’t be panicking.
GET SOME.
By Greg W., Oakville on 03.11.08 2:00 pm
The P.M. is in B.C. today. I think it is some sort of business convention as he was with the Premier at the water front.
Off topic, I was watching CNN today and they were talking about gas prices. They were saying that gas has gone up 10 cents per gallon in a week. I had to laugh as I have seen it go up and down ten cents per litre overnight quite often. Welcome to our world America!
We are still dealing with the Marxist leanings of Trudeau where the public is considered nothing more than a means to fuel the elite.
2 years and little or no work done for the people, it`s all been one long election campaign for the Parties.
By Nero Fiddles on 03.11.08 1:58 pm
I believe that you have confused Trudeau’s corporatist leanings with his interest in Marxism.
It’s never going to get any safer for the Liberals to call for a non confidence vote, with the lengths the Conservatives are going to try & force an election,so why stall any longer?
Dion can babble all he wants re “Canadians don’t want a spring election” but most of us do. So, let’s go now! The fence can’t be very comfortable! It’s time for the Liberal Opposition to show us it knows how to oppose & stop sitting on the fence.
Win,lose or draw, it’s better to fight for what’s right, than run away in fright. Intergrity means you must take a stand, when you know the country needs a change in government.
By Joe Calgary on 03.11.08 2:22 pm
1. “Firstly, there is a lifetime cap of 50K on RESP contributions vs a $5K annual cap on TFSA… over 21 years thats half the amount contributable to a TFSA. advantage TFSA.”
You’re assuming one or the other.
For the first $50,000 the RESP is the better choice. Then if you are weathy enough to put more away, you can put the money into a TFSA.
The other point is that when the money is taken out of the RESP, it is taxed in the childs hands. The assumption, which is generally the case, is they pay little or no tax while in education. Therefore the RESP is superior because of the CESG.
2. “If they don’t, the government component is gone, and the withdrawal is assessed at earned income tax rates, plus 20%. The TFSA has no tax burden. Advantage TFSA.” – Agreed.
3. “Thirdly, when an RESP is rolled into an RRSP, it is done tax free, right up til you withdraw the RRSP, taxed at around 40%. (RRSP withdrawel x 1.25% x .45 percent) TFSA, tax free. Advantage TFSA.” – ?????
When you take out money from the RRSP it is taxed as income at whatever marginal rate you’re at. Where did the 1.25% fiddle factor come from come from? But I will agree, if you only got a 20% tax refund (the CESG) and you end up paying greater than that when you take it out the TFSA would be better. Again, the assumption is that your tax rate will be lower in retirement than it was when you contributed.
So there’s a decision to be made. If I save for my kids education, the RESP will give them more money and they will end up with less debt. However, if they don’t go, the money will be taxed and I’ll end up with less.
All the more reason for RESP contributions to be made tax deductable, or
Make them function exactly like Flaherty’s TFSA, as well as the government kicking in 20% to assist funding education. The CESG would be returnable to the government plus 20% of the growth if it is not used for education, the idea being that the end result should be the same as a TFSA.
from Lisa
3.11.08 1:37
Re: Brenda Martin
“It disgusts me that this poor lady is rotting for no reason in a Mexican jail….. ”
I completely agree with you Lisa.
Is there any evidence at all that suggests that Brenda Martin was part of this investment fraud?
Surely the Minister can make this determination in a timely manner.
Otherwise pay what “bribe” is necesary to get her out.
We can get that money back in our other dealings with Mexico.
This is such a sad story : (
Hi Marc on 03.11.08 3:20 pm,
It to bad PMSH in the last 9 day has not used QP as an answere period personally!
Just my two cents.
I believe that you have confused Trudeau’s corporatist leanings with his interest in Marxism.
By C. B. on 03.11.08 3:34 pm
I believe you`ve confused his fascist act of turning over our democratic rights and freedoms to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers with his interest in the people.
Can you pull a procedural trick to delay this vote till after next Monday?
By Ron on 03.11.08 10:38 am
My thoughts also, things could change after the byelections. Wouldnt it shake the shit out of all of them if the Greens got a seat, oh, how I wish!
The Brenda Martin case illustrates the flaws in the kind of “principled” managerial approach to government. The policy of the new Conservative Party is to accept whatever an ally does without question. Mexico is considered an important economic ally and our government will not, on principle, interfere.
Our entire diplomatic system is geared towards economics and the facilitation of trade on behalf of our multi-nationals.
I have heard that apart from replacing a lost or stolen passport, and even then there are often problems, our diplomatic and consular missions abroad are useless as far as the general public is concerned. I don’t know how accurate that impression might be.
By Joe Calgary on 03.11.08 2:22 pm
You talk about all of the advantages of TFSA vs RESP. Here’s one for ya.
TFSA projected cost: 3 billion
RESP projected cost: 900 million
Those estimates are annual by the way, from our taxes!
Advantage RESP!!
Higher enrollment into Canadian Universities & colleges creating smarter Canadians, a direct boost to our Canadian education institutions: RESP vs TFSA…
Advantage, RESP!!
Meanwhile, this Con government couldn’t find it in two tier Tony’s heart & head come budget time to cough up a measly couple mil to track the spread of superbugs in Canada’s hospitals that are killing between 800 – 1200 Canadians every year. Its sadly not even on their inept radar when it comes to budgets. Talk about a sham for ineptitude with this current minority Conservative federal government. I guess this is the Conservative meaning of the phrase, “smaller government”.
Its not just the sick and lame who are dying. Hows your appendix or tonsils, Joe?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/03/11/bc-superbug-strikes-mother.html
My God, its a pandemic on their hands and the Reform party is sitting on their asses muzzling their own science through budgets that don’t include studies on the most basic of intelligence needed to stop the spread of superbugs between patients, staffs and hospitals themselves. We are literally flying blind with the funding provided by this government on superbugs and the numbers are high.
How many soldiers have we lost in Afghanistan? Add a zero annually to that number with superbugs. Annually!
We were expecting bacteria to become resistant to antibiotics. Now its happening and were not watching. We don’t know the numbers between superbugs that are airborne from those that aren’t and if location or contact in terms of spreading through humans is what is causing as high as 1200 deaths annually in Canada and climbing. Experts are fearing a spike to 2,000 year over year and we don’t or won’t actually know until well after the fact because this Conservative government is to dullard to take the responsibility of even spending to even want to know about the seriousness of what we NEED to know concerning the spread of superbugs.
This Con federal government is not paying attention to the same kind of threat a Chalk River meltdown from a lack of secondary pumps in place would have achieved and perhaps will, over time.
I can’t trust a Conservative government to actually govern! We need science and studies done, hard data collected to contain the spread of superbugs on a federal level, never mind provinical ones and we haven’t got any answers.
The funding that provided for the nations intelligence was nuked and now were flying blind thanks to Harper, Flarehty and the one who doesn’t brush his teeth, two tier Tony.
Its sad that this Conservative government fires its scientists and muzzles the rest in what could perhaps be their greatest time of need.
Just watched Don Newman, and my gut tells me the Liberals are wrong on this one, and the NDP are right. If the opposition feels that this government is incompetent (to which I agree) then why keep them in power any longer?
Leasa and “Give me a Break”, I should not have let my temper and disgust at such partisanship over-rule my better judgement. My evil twin took over when I lowered the tone of this blog by telling Leasa she was full of **it. My apologies. Maybe I meant she was full of bait?
Enough already! You said it, Garth – this “untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer”!! See also James Travers column in the Toronto Sun – your leader and party is losing all credibility on the environment issue as well. Make them call an election and let the chips fall where they may. You’ll never live it down, I fear, if you don’t. I personally have had it up to hear with being manipulated and pushed around.
I just watched Marlene Jennings with Don Newman, PVL and Libby Davies.
She indicated; If a ways & means motion, put forward as an amendment to the budget bill, which successfully castrated Bill C-253, RESP, to make its passage NULL & VOID, the Liberals would not vote against the budget.
I AM NOW OUTA HERE … IT SEEMS I’VE BEEN WASTING MY TIME!
Garth, Is there any way you could do a MPTV with former finance minister Hon Ralph Goodale, and see how he would have done things diferently had the opposition Conservatives introduced something like TFSA while Liberals were a minority and how he would have handled as such? I would suspect the same scenario would have taken place with the private members bill taken back and attached to the budget. It would be interesting none the less.
Time for a little fun. Of course we don
t need to worry about Garth and his compatriots:>)
Old Butch
John the farmer was in the fertilized egg business. He had several hundred young layers (hens), called “pullets”, and ten roosters, whose job it was to fertilize the eggs.
The farmer kept records and any rooster that didn’t perform went into the soup pot and was replaced. That took an awful lot of his time, so he bought a set of tiny bells and attached them to his roosters. Each bell had a different tone so John could tell from a distance, which rooster was performing. Now he could sit on the porch and fill out an efficiency report simply by listening to the bells.
The farmer’s favorite rooster was old Butch, a very fine specimen he was, too. But on this particular morning John noticed old Butch’s bell hadn’t rung at all! John went to investigate. The other roosters were chasing pullets, bells-a-ringing. The pullets, hearing the roosters coming, would run for cover.
But to Farmer John’s amazement, old Butch had his bell in his beak, so it couldn’t ring. He’d sneak up on a pullet, do his job and walk on to the next one. John was so proud of old Butch, he entered him in the Renfrew County Fair and he became an overnight sensation among the judges.
The result…The judges not only awarded old Butch the No Bell Piece Prize but they awarded him the Pulletsurprise as well.
Clearly old Butch was a politician in the making: who else but a politician could figure out how to win two of the most highly coveted awards on our planet by being the best at sneaking up on the populace and screwing them when they weren’t paying attention.
Vote carefully this year…the bells are not always audible!
Have been out of touch this afternoon, but just caught Marlene Jennings on part of Newman’s “Politics” saying that Canadians do not want an election at this time.
I assume that she was not speaking out of school, and that this will be the Liberal reason for caving in the RESP caper too. So PMSH has free rein once again, and Liberal Opposition policy reduces to one hope: When Canada goes down, we’ll be standing on its shoulders.
Since Rhino won’t run, maybe NDP?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 5:08 pm
I just watched Marlene Jennings with Don Newman, PVL and Libby Davies.
She indicated; If a ways & means motion, put forward as an amendment to the budget bill, which successfully castrated Bill C-253, RESP, to make its passage NULL & VOID, the Liberals would not vote against the budget.
I AM NOW OUTA HERE … IT SEEMS I’VE BEEN WASTING MY TIME!
…………………………………
This is your first comprehensive posting on this fine forum. I agree you should now depart and perform your personal political hara kiri act in private .. and spare us your confabulating messages that nobody really bothers to read.
Dozvidanya …
Garth … you are just farting in the wind with your musings about a non-confidence vote this week.
Liberal MP Jennings stated on CTV Duffy Live, there will be no voting against the government this week, and now I hear Stephen LeDrew saying the same thing and adding that the Liberals are not ready for an election .. financially and organizationally.
Really Garth … you may be misleading us with your futile, fruitless, frivolous musing on your fine blog.
QUESTION FOR THE CONS.
How come the tories want an election so bad? The majority thing is just a pipedream.So why now?
Gomery to blast Tories over sponsorship response
By Jim Brown, THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA – John Gomery is returning to Ottawa, with some pointed questions about why the current Conservative government has ignored most of the reforms he recommended after the Liberal-inspired sponsorship scandal.
The now-retired judge, who spent two years delving into the sponsorship affair, will be the star witness Thursday at the House of Commons committee on government operations.
“It seemed perfectly logical to invite (him) to come and lay out his concerns,” said New Democrat MP Charlie Angus, who won all-party support for his proposal to hear from Gomery.
It’s not clear, however, whether the session will be a one-time chance for Gomery to trumpet his views, or the start of a wider-ranging study of how to revamp the way Ottawa works.
Angus said Tuesday he’ll “certainly be pushing for follow-up” with further testimony from more witnesses.
But Diane Marleau, the Liberal committee chair, noted the panel has a full slate of other business in coming weeks, and she’s not sure there will be room to pursue any issues raised by Gomery.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/03/11/4973301-cp.html
Nikolai Nikolaivitch on 03.11.08 5:20 pm
Just WAIT FOR THE BOOTS!
All this angst from a PISSANT MINORITY GOOBERNMENT? Imagine these arseholes with a majority?
Green is good if the Libs refuse to do their job. The MAJORITY OPPOSITION MP’s VOTED IN A BILL. Tough shit for the MINORITY CRAP goobernment. What? They don’t read what they vote on? IT PASSED!
Oh, and the Great Defense Minister MacKay doesn’t know HOW MUCH the Afghanistan mission will be costing, but ITS MORE THAN FLAHERTY LEFT IN THE KITTY for the coming year!
What a JOKE of a democracy this has turned out to be. PATHETIC is too kind of word.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, (Garth, could you please at least post this one.
)
I’ll stop for today, thanks
For thows bloggers out there looking for a sourse of news other then from the corporate mass media try reddit.com
http://reddit.com/
this fine forum
Nikolai Nikolaivitch on 03.11.08 5:20 pm
your fine blog
By Harry S on 03.11.08 5:25 pm
Cluster bombs/bomblets already prepared. They’ll be effective for all political meetings.
I believe you`ve confused his fascist act of turning over our democratic rights and freedoms to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers with his interest in the people.
By Nero Fiddles on 03.11.08 4:01 pm
You seem to be alleging that I said something I did not. I have not said anything about Trudeau with reference to “the people.”
There is no doubt that Trudeau began the transformation in the power of the PMO towards a more autocratic model. He distrusted the public service as much as Harper and used outside advisors much like Harper has done. Corporatism, which is a concept that promotes the interests of private institutions within the political sphere, is not far removed from fascism.
For all election junkies, perhaps the true reason for not having an election lies in the fact well over 75% of Canadians do not want an election as most feel the vote on a fixed election date holds all MP’s feet to fire… As I previously stated, “Stand do the guns crew” because come January 09 our first American style election machine will be up and running. Then again what the heck do I know. Hey my good ode Maytag washer just bit the dust as stated by a real life Magtag repair man who arrived to pass such a judgement. So having said that, maybe just maybe the Conservative Leader of Century will bite the dust, politically of course.
Nikolai/Harry,
don’t think that Pyotr is gone for good, but I’ll definitely stick around to smite you when you get too stupid.
As in your 5:25, Harry. Garth has not been misleading us. His “fine blog” does reveal the tribulations of the LPC, but even more so the vileness of the CPC. Hence it continues to be worth participating.
As a duty troll, you don’t have any choice about being here anyway. So carry on illuminating the neo-Republican shadows, and be a reason for not voting CPC.
TELL CAPTAIN DION TO TAKE THE RAG OUT OF HIS A== AND TAKE THIS IDIOT HARPER TO THE FLOOR,
HARPER CAN SPEND MULTI MILLIONS FOR TANKS FOR AFGANISTAN AND BILLIONS FIGHTING BUSH’S WAR BUT CAN’T EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN.
WHO THE HELL NEEDS POLITICIANS WHEN THEY PLAY THEIR STUPID LITTLE MIND GAMES.
IT’S ABOUT TIME THE CHICKEN LEFT THE BODY AND SOMEONE OTHER THEN HARPER SHOWED SOME BACK BONE.
IT’S GETTING SO LIBERALS SHOULD WEAR A BAG OVER THEIR HEADS IN SHAME OF A DO NOTHING LEADER.
MAYBE DION SHOULD JOIN THE POPE AND BECOME ONE OF HIS NEW SINS.
The saying is three strikes and your out, Dion has had the chance 3 THREE times to put Harper out of his misery but plays like he’s one of his buddies.
Incidently Harper and Hitler had two likeness their names start with “H” and have the same number of characters and both rule the same
Couldn’t Flaherty make adjustments in his budget to incorporate McTeague’s plan in order to give Canadians what they want?
If this Bill would put the country in deficit – how badly have the Conservatives handled our monies?
What a JOKE of a democracy this has turned out to be. PATHETIC is too kind of word.
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.11.08 5:50 pm
Bill, I suspect there will be a large number of dissatisfied Liberals joining the dissatisfied Conservatives and NDP voting Green in the next election simply as a place to park their vote. The others in Parliament are beginning to look so bad that even an inexperienced Green government is beginning to look better than our current choices.
“Familiarity breeds contempt.”
Incidently Harper and Hitler had two likeness their names start with “H” and have the same number of characters and both rule the same
By ken c on 03.11.08 6:11 pm
Ken, did you just say; “I’m not as think as you drunk I am?” Leasa
Since Rhino won’t run, maybe NDP?
By Herb on 03.11.08 5:17 pm
(smile)
What can I say??!! Now perhaps you understand my moniker.
Don’t waste your vote on the NDP. Those dolts do not seem to know who they are or what they stand for anymore.
Vote Green or write-in Rhino. There is always the Marijuana Party! Vote for honesty in platform – not the jokes who are in office right now.
BTW, it is hard not to find this RESP problem as the LPC third strike. Are the 70% of Canadians who are NOT committed for the CPC wrong? Is the undecided vote that scary?
The longer the CPC remain in power, the more our Canadian institutions, philosophy of a caring society, the principle of equality and fair play are destroyed or at the very least undermined.
This is one fence sitter who is getting more convinced to remain “maybe Rhino”…
I can’t wait to see the shock on CPC supporters faces when my BIG UGLY MUG APPEARS AT THEIR VESPERS!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 3:55 am
What a JOKE of a democracy this has turned out to be. PATHETIC is too kind of word.
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.11.08 5:50 pm
Just WAIT FOR THE BOOTS!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 5:50 pm
Cluster bombs/bomblets already prepared. They’ll be effective for all political meetings.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 5:57 pm
I AM NOW OUTA HERE … IT SEEMS I’VE BEEN WASTING MY TIME!
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 5:08 pm
TELL CAPTAIN DION TO TAKE THE RAG OUT OF HIS A== ….. IT’S GETTING SO LIBERALS SHOULD WEAR A BAG OVER THEIR HEADS IN SHAME OF A DO NOTHING LEADER.
By ken c on 03.11.08 6:11 pm
……………………………………………………………
Sound like our Liberal forum colleagues are preparing themselves for political hara kiri …. !!!!!
Vote carefully this year…the bells are not always audible!
By Bonnie L on 03.11.08 5:15 pm
That was hilarious!
By brain on 03.11.08 12:46 am
Whoooaaaa mama! Couldn’t have said it better myself, so nice one, brain!
————————————————————————————————————————
. . . The Conservatives won’t allow you idiots to put us back in defecit. . . .
By John G on 03.11.08 10:43 am
After all the fiscal damage the conCRAPneandertrolls have done, it’s time to let the adults sort your mess out now — it will take a while, but that’s okay — and get this country back on track and running again.
Thanks, but we don’t need any further destructive actions from you and your ilk. Have a nice life!
————————————————————————————————————————
24 months and little or no work done
By Nero Fiddles on 03.11.08 11:35 am
One cannot overly fault the Opposition Parties, as when they speak in QP, inevitably they are drowned out by cat-calls, jeers, boos and the like.
It has become a sadly pathetic spectacle; supposedly grown-up people act in a childish, spoiled-brat manner.
This is our government? I think not. There has to be a better way.
————————————————————————————————————————
By slg on 03.11.08 12:24 pm
1912 was the year Titanic set sail, and promptly sank.
Anyone see a resemblance between those events and the political shenanigans here and now?
Change IS now required and necessary. It will be done soon as we, the electorate, are getting mighty tired and antsy in waiting for the writ to be dropped.
Today (Tuesday) was when our garbage pick-up came, and took all the CRAP away. Good timing? Damn right!
http://www.igloolounge.net/2006/02/10/stephen-harper-is-an-asshole/
http://www.igloolounge.net/pictures/feb06/stephen_harper_victory.jpg
Incidently Harper and Hitler had two likeness their names start with “H” and have the same number of characters and both rule the same.
By ken c on 03.11.08 6:11 pm
And my good friend Guiseppe knows how to run a cleaning POGROM.
don’t think that Pyotr is gone for good
By Herb on 03.11.08 6:09 pm
You’re right, Herb. I’m definitely GONE FOR BAD! I hope that feller wears black pyjamas, laying on his side with the pin pulled, hoping for mercy at ambush.
Cluster bombs/bomblets already prepared. They’ll be effective for all political meetings.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 5:57 pm
Garth, I told you a long time ago this guy was dangerous. Are you going to report this to the proper authorities before someone has to do it for you? I believe a serious law has been broken here. Thanks, Leasa
Can’t wait to see how you spin the Liberals supporting the killing of McTeagues bill!
I know I know, if the budget fails to pass then the TFSA will die too! Oh but wait, you already argued that the RESP is the better of the two….hmmm, gotta think of another argument before vote day…oh never mind maybe there will be a snowstorm to keep all the liberals from showing up!
Corporatism, which is a concept that promotes the interests of private institutions within the political sphere, is not far removed from fascism.
By C. B.on 03.11.08 6:07 pm
If this were a test you`d get an A+
The dividing factor between corporatism and fascism is an equally applied or rather lack of the rule of law. Therein lies the reason I have been promoting a complete change in federal governance.
no justice, no investment
Odd how many people support a system that is inherently not in the best interests of the people. Where did I just hear that?
on an unrelated topic
The Dow had the largest one day gain in 5 years. I have no doubt the traders will be talking about the size of the short squeeze for many years.
I think the govt should also allow the interest paid to borrow the $5000 invested in RESP, ie., my children’s education, to be deductible.
Does the current rule allow this?
and spare us your confabulating messages that nobody really bothers to read.
Dozvidanya …
By Nikolai Nikolaivitch on 03.11.08 5:20 pm
Apparently you read them.
Oh wait, you said “NOBODY” reads them. Guess you were right for once, ya NOBODY.
Couldn’t Flaherty make adjustments in his budget to incorporate McTeague’s plan in order to give Canadians what they want?
If this Bill would put the country in deficit – how badly have the Conservatives handled our monies?
By slg on 03.11.08 6:19 pm
A good example is the costs of the Afghanistan War which are spiraling out of control. It looks like it will be over a billion dollars over budget this fiscal year and with an escalation of the combat mission planned you can bet it will be a great deal higher next year.
The report has just come that a another Canadian soldier has died in Afghanistan.
Britain has also found themselves well over budget for their combat missions in Afghanistan and Iraq.
John: I guess the Cons had to figure in their huge over budget on AFghanistan when they dumped this razor thin budget on Canadians?
What is their contigency for a national disaster?
Or is the homeland the second place that the Cons plan on spending our tax dollars?
How can the Liberals not support one of their own?
What fuzzy logic are they using to rationalize allowing Flaherty to defeat a democratical vote by a majority of MPs?
Mr.Dion is constantly asking Mr. Harper for answers and none are received. Are the Liberals not doing the same by not giving their supporters the true reasons for not bringing the Cons down?
Tell us if the Liberals don’t have the money for an election, tell us if there are problems within the party that prevent them going to an election with a unified party, tell us if they are in disarray. How can we go on supporting what appears to be a cowardly political party. Without strong logic for not bringing down the Cons over a Liberal member’s private bill which would be so beneficial to the future generations, I am afraid I will have lost all hope for the Canada I grew up in and want back. If there is a reason other then just winning please, please tell me so I can understand.
Leasa,
Garth may be a little busy trying to talk sense into his Party colleagues. You go and report that serious terrorist threat. And don’t bother with intervening authorities, go straight to Doris Day.
Sound like our Liberal forum colleagues are preparing themselves for political hara kiri …. !!!!!
By Harry S on 03.11.08 6:26 pm
Thanks for the witty humour.Much appreciated.Couldn,t stop laughin’ for 5 minutes.
What baffles me is why Dion wasn’t in the House for the vote on McTeague’s Bill ?
By C. B. Innes on 03.11.08 6:59 pm
I agree…
And what will it cost taxpayers if Harper goes through with suing the opposition? Would that cover the costs of RESP?
Garth, I told you a long time ago this guy was dangerous. Are you going to report this to the proper authorities before someone has to do it for you? I believe a serious law has been broken here. Thanks, Leasa
By Leasa on 03.11.08 6:31 pm
I am the proper authorities. Call out the stormtroopers … Get them to visit Garth to glean the information to enable them to pay a visit. Better still, interrupt StockYard, in the midst of his surreptitious observances of a dope deal going down in Hamilton. Your problem IS: You don’t know how to proceed, without bringing down a stonk on your position. Act on a suspicion … without confirmation and substance, and I’m the new farm boy in town who owns your farm. So, Leasa, write out a FORMAL complaint. Get the PO-LICE involved. You know how lawyers work … or you should know … ignorance is no excuse. It takes a formal complaint and the complainant must make their name and suspicion known. I look forward to their appearance at my door, search warrant in hand and I’ll take it from there. There WILL BE repercussions! What’s the guy’s name? Yeppir, it’ll be Fantino. I betcha I can convince whoever it is to drive me to the complainant’s house for a belated surprise visit, and make you look really good in the process.
Ottawa mean time. — Garth
03.11.08 2:23 pm
Garth! Brother, where art thou? Thine faithful haven’t heard your voice since 2:23 pm.
Hath thine brethren suckled upon your teat, then sliced your exposed breast with the most common of daggers once more? Again, having laid bare your flesh. Have they no mercy??
How shall you ever Soar with The Eagles, whilst you dwell with these Turkeys???
Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!
Without strong logic for not bringing down the Cons over a Liberal member’s private bill which would be so beneficial to the future generations, I am afraid I will have lost all hope for the Canada I grew up in and want back. If there is a reason other then just winning please, please tell me so I can understand.By Geminesse on 03.11.08 7:04 pm
I concur. Good point, well stated.
CB
You might find this interesting on the role fascism now has on life in Canada.
We were assured our democratic rights under common law before the Charter came into effect.
A SCoC judge recently described the rule of law as a large white painting that only the SC could understand.
They took the text of common law and used a white out marker called the Charter until all we have left is a (in her words) a large white painting with thin white lines.
Those thin white lines is the paper between the whited out text of common law.
I don`t believe I`ve ever seen justice handled this way since the Spanish Inquisitions.
Not only does this handful of unelected and unaccountable lawyers decide what our rights and freedoms are they simply need point to a white painting and say, it`s all right there in white and white.
Do you think a change in ad agencies is enough?
Fred Langdon’s commentary on CBC’s Business — 3:30-4 PDT — was very interesting.
Said: “. . . the UK is having the biggest housing downturn since 1990 . . . banks now require a minimum 10% down, before they will even listen to potential buyers . . . homes generally take two months or more to sell . . . there are numerous foreclosures . . .” etc., etc.
Wasn’t it the banks, lending companies and others who were more than happy to give away free money, expecting to reap big profits in the future?
If they now own homes which don’t sell, I guess that’s a big material profit for the banks.
Two sentences comes to mind here: For each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction (Newton); As a man soweth, that shall he also reap (St. Paul).
It is quite clear that what one puts out in life, either in a positive or negative sense, is precisely and exactly what said person gets back.
The English money lenders are getting back now what they put out, with little or no research. In general, people still don’t learn from their predecessors.
—————————————————————————————————
Philosophical and factual stuff (not my bag)
Easter Is always the 1st Sunday after the 1st full moon after the Spring Equinox, (which is March 20). This dating of Easter is based on the lunar calendar that Hebrew people used to identify Passover, which is why it moves around on our Roman calendar.
Based on the above, Easter can actually be one day earlier (March 22) but that is pretty rare.
Here’s the interesting info: This year is the earliest Easter any of us will ever see the rest of our lives! And only the most elderly of our population have ever seen it this early (95 years old or above!).
None of us have ever, or will ever, see it a day earlier! Here’s the facts:
1) The next time Easter will be this early (March 23) will be the year 2228 (220 years from now). The last time it was this early was 1913 (so if you’re 95 or older, you are the only ones that were around for that!).
2) The next time it will be a day earlier, March 22, will be in the year 2285 (277 years from now).
The last time it was on March 22 was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than this year!
UH-OH, Did someone say defecit??
Tories downplay report of $1-billion Afghan budget blowout
By Alexander Panetta, THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA – The Conservative government is downplaying a report that the Afghanistan mission will run $1 billion over budget this fiscal year after a series of similar cost over-runs.
The Tories did not deny the budget blowout for 2007-08 reported Tuesday in a Montreal newspaper.
They simply warned that the figure cited by the newspaper was based on preliminary estimates that cannot be confirmed until after the end of the fiscal year later this month.
Documents obtained under the Access to Information Act indicate the mission has cost Canadian taxpayers at least $7.5 billion since 2001.
Half of that total consists of annual cost over-runs.
The documents say the mission cost $538 million more than expected over the first six months of the current fiscal year, and is projected to overshoot its budget by another $539 million by March 31.
“I wouldn’t say that that’s necessarily accurate,” Defence Minister Peter MacKay said of the 2007-08 projection.
“That’s based on a number of assessments that really are speculating right now on what the final costs are going to be over a full year.”
With the Afghan mission up for a make-or-break confidence vote Thursday in the House of Commons, the NDP raised the projected cost over-runs in its latest attack on the efficiency of the mission.
New Democrats and the Bloc Quebecois are dead-set against a mission extension.
The Conservatives are staunchly in favour and have managed to reach a deal with the Liberals, who have lately been backing down in any confidence vote that could trigger an election.
Thursday’s vote would extend the military mission in Kandahar province until 2011.
The Tory-Liberal co-operation has given the NDP a hot-button issue with which to attack both of its rivals – and the cost overruns conveniently provided them with political ammunition just before the vote.
“These are numbers that of course the government wasn’t telling us about, wasn’t telling Canadians about,” NDP Leader Jack Layton said.
“It’s the mismanagement of the war. The costs are spiralling out of control just as we’ve seen by the Americans in Iraq and the government didn’t deny this.”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2008/03/11/4974091-cp.html
This current “NEW” Conservative government is the ruination of our sovereign country, Canada. Middle class Americans are being ass – kicked at the same time.
What are WE to do? When one sees the massive bailout of hedge funds, banks, LLP’s currently taking place. The governments of the world are now backing up the toxic debt of hedge funds, banks, LLP’s, Private Equity, that couldn’t trade at 50 cents on the dollar! It’s being backed by treasuries which are backed by “the full faith of the government”. The government, of every country of the world, has only ONE source of income – THE TAXPAYER. These bailouts just allow these pigs to continue buying up our decent assets, far below their true value, while we, the taxpayer are forced to pay for it. And pay for the further acquisitions by these same pigs! A new form of Fascism. Government of the elite, for the elite and by the elite.
Did you read today of the FED’s new $200 BILLION facility, with the ECB and Bank of Canada joining as well? As a very smart commentator elsewhere has already explained:
” This new facility basically says that the Fed is putting U.S. Treasury Securities on a par with AAA asset backed corporate paper(ABCP) that is currently bidding at 50 cents on the dollar”. And now people should feel secure investing in treasuries? And asset backed corporate paper, worth 50 cents on the dollar should have a triple A rating?
This is absolutely too frightening! When taxpayers eventually get this whomped onto them by job losses, tax increases and when interest rates ramp up, there will be no money available to the many average people to put money into a TFSP. The INCOME TRUST model and the RESP tax deduction are the only things that ever would have any beneficial meaning to the majority of Canadians – with NO tax leakage. The Conservatives have been hobbling this country since the Avro Arrow, in favour of our southern controllers. Have you ever seen a stallion hobbled and then castrated without anesthetic? I have – and it’s happening to Canada right now.
LMAO! Political ‘Arry I don’t Kari is more like it.
Look out for the Samarai Balloteer!
Tick! Tock! Tick Tock!
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 7:28 pm
And the Spring Equinox is March 21st! Day equals night and night equals day!
Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock!
Incidently Harper and Hitler had two likeness their names start with “H” and have the same number of characters and both rule the same
By ken c on 03.11.08 6:11 pm
Don’t forget Ken that both their last names end with er as well! Spooky
The last time it was on March 22 was 1818. So, no one alive today has or will ever see it any earlier than this year!
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 7:28 pm
That was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
If it’s true that our species is alone in the universe, then I’d have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. ~ George Carlin
By Leasa on 03.11.08 6:31 pm
Remind yourself, Leasa … StockYard had to pay Lorne Goddard [~$800,000 under the umbrella of Ralph Klein's government] for defamation. I won’t bother you with StockYard’s “foolish pleadings” before the pre-Christmas settlement. One of his “foolish pleadings” was that he should be permitted to say anything he wanted in terms of tarnishing Lorne Goddard’s representation of his client’s interests. If you’re willing to pay the cost, all those facts are available in the western press. I’m not going to feed your oxygen deprived brain. I will see you at the all-candidate meeting in your riding.
I am happy that someone is helping that poor women out in Mexico.If we leave it to the cons she will be there a long, long time.
BTW ,that is twice this month Paul has stuck it to the cons.
Paul Martin intervenes in Mexican case
Charles Rusnell, Edmonton Journal
Published: Tuesday, March 11, 2008
EDMONTON — Former prime minister Paul Martin is personally intervening in the case of a Canadian woman who has been imprisoned in Mexico without trial for more than two years.
Martin met Tuesday with Mexico’s vice minister of Foreign Affairs to press the case of 51-year-old Brenda Martin. The former prime minister is in Mexico City for meetings aimed at expanding the G8 to include a dozen more countries, including Mexico.
“He feels very strongly that she should be released and returned to Canada, and he informed the vice minister that Canadians feel very strongly about this case,” Jim Pimblett, Martin’s spokesman said Tuesday.
The former prime minister is attempting to schedule more meetings with top Mexican officials to press Martin’s case, and the Mexicans appear receptive to his diplomatic efforts.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=368355
Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock!
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.11.08 7:53 pm
Hello Bill. Courtesy of Warren Buffet and friends, it becomes . . . And now for something completely different — IT’S . . .
http://tinyurl.com/2hea84
By Lana on 03.11.08 8:00 pm
Hello Lana. I responded to yours and SJ’s (or DJ’s) posts late last night.
The one thing I forgot to mention was that a few months ago (surprisingly reported in the msm), a Chinese sub surfaced within a mile or two of a US carrier — completely undetected, so the Chinese have discovered a way to avoid detection by sonar, whereas the US hasn’t.
By keith phibbs on 03.11.08 7:34 pm
Kieth….these numbers are only the tip of iceberg, all the equipment will be worn out, those rented tanks will not be able to be returned and long term medical care will in itself could cost many millions. Also Kieth, both the Navy and Air Force is being drained look at to-days news from Halifax that 56 members who fought the fire on burning sub are being denied compensation by the Harper government..and hush hush orders not to let the the numbers out on Afghanistan medical/mental issues. Also Kieth British news reported yesterday their envloment cost have skyrocketed.. So ladies and gentlemen stay turned because Harper’s majority vote buying game to try and fool Canadians is going to cost us all big time. Hell and all this on top of what Garth knows in the wonderful world of finance. RESP was and is an investment in education that would pay twice over and then some in productivity.
The Liberals ladies are not your friend.
Don’t forget Steckle has got a bill that meddles with women’s choices.
Indeed it is time to either a) boycott an election to make it null and void OR
b) park your vote
There is simply no other choice for reasonable people when we have snakes in the grass on both sides of the house.
Bill C-338
(Government Bill)
Click here to view more information on the House of Commons’ Web site.
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (procuring a miscarriage after twenty weeks of gestation) Paul Steckle (Huron–Bruce) (Liberal)
· Introduced and read the first time – June 21, 2006
So now we’ve all evolved into something. I think! Slightly under 4 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a15KgyXBX24
One potential aggravation arose Tuesday with Finance Minister Jim Flaherty introducing a budget-related motion that includes a provision to kill a Liberal-sponsored bill to enrich Registered Education Savings Plans
Garth,would it be possible for the Liberals to put forth an amendment on Dim Jims provision of killing the RESP bill? Use the reform parties tricks in order to defeat them?
Just wondered,
Regards
completely undetected, so the Chinese have discovered a way to avoid detection by sonar, whereas the US hasn’t.
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 8:59 pm
What about the ‘Great Skipper,’ Harper?
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/f2/b6/b1d8ccfb455eb8e51d20802f1f15.jpeg
One cannot overly fault the Opposition Parties
Charles on 03.11.08 6:28 pm
Judging the results of the last few decades it would indeed by hard to just fault the opposition.
I follow the logic of the largest block of eligible voters, the non-voter, and blame the entire elected federal government.
My friend, do you think a change of ad agencies will be enough?
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 03.11.08 7:23 pm
What’s with you and threatening people all the time?
“I will see you at the all-candidate meeting in your riding.”
Are you really that immature that you can’t handle differing opinion without resorting to such nonsense? Are you dangerous? Would you really blow up political meetings? Do you beat up women as well? Do they let you out unescorted?
Answer those questions, inquiring minds really want to know if they should be communicating with you.
Leasa
My friend, do you think a change of ad agencies will be enough?
By Nero Fiddles on 03.11.08 9:49 pm
Unfortunately not.
My view is that the entire system needs to be overhauled — into what, I don’t know; I do know the present system doesn’t work — but give it a chance with new life, new energy to make it work.
Until the partisan nonsense is gone for good, then the more things change, the more they stay the same. We’re stuck with it for the time being.
I just need to say that this is quite a so called ‘photo-op’oh well. I guess I am now cofusesed.Does Flagerrty care or does he mean what he says oe WHAT SHOULD WE BRACE US FOR LATER?
John: I guess the Cons had to figure in their huge over budget on AFghanistan when they dumped this razor thin budget on Canadians?
What is their contigency for a national disaster?
Or is the homeland the second place that the Cons plan on spending our tax dollars?
By Judy on 03.11.08 7:01 pm
The Harper Con disaster plan was quietly signed by Stephen Harper and some Bush minion that allows foreign armed forces on Canadian soil for ’security’ reasons.
Anything other that befalls Canadians are outside Harper’s sphere of interest. Floods, natural disasters, health threats, all these are low on the list of priorities for the Harper Conservatives.
Garth, you wrote –
So, what should the strategy be this week? Vote for the RESP bill which middle-class Canadians so clearly want – the kind of reform which brought me back to Ottawa? In doing so, should we risk giving the Conservatives an election at the wrong moment, a time of their choosing? Should we bite our tongues, sit on our hands, and await the better day to sweep away Mr. Harper? Is this a time for principle or strategy? Or is it simply the instant at which an untrustworthy, incompetent, unethical and bullyboy government can be tolerated no longer?
Can I be so bold as to suggest that perhaps you should make all of the above your party platform for an election and put it our there for us, the voters, to decide? Who cares what King Stephen wants?
By Leasa on 03.11.08 10:58 pm
You are the “gold” standard for dypstyks. I think I saw you in your role as the great unifier at the John Tory leadership review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-StwaOy-04
Is that YOU shoving people around? One of the best things about an INDEPENDENT PRESS is that they capture the reality of an event … not the platitudinous pap the MSM puts out. We have cameras and recorders and WILL SEE YOU at the all-candidate meeting in your riding.
The one thing I forgot to mention was that a few months ago (surprisingly reported in the msm), a Chinese sub surfaced within a mile or two of a US carrier — completely undetected, so the Chinese have discovered a way to avoid detection by sonar, whereas the US hasn’t.
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 8:59 pm
What? They have a cloaking device? I wonder if it’s Klingon or Romulan design?
Imagine the opportunity for the Military Industrial Complex to design and market one of those eh??? As the song goes, ” I just want lot’s and lot’s of money!”
Rick Mercer’s Rant says it all. Rick says, regarding the Cadman scandal, “There’s so much smoke coming out of this that you can spot it on Google Earth.”
Dear Garth,
The most critical issue to me is that Harper has control of the Order Paper in the house of commons.
Harper sets the agenda.
Governing matters.
As long as Harper is governing Canada’s governance will revolve around what HARPER thinks is important.
Personally, having NEVER met Harper, I do not trust the man.
And I have observed what is important to Mr. Harper… UNFETTERED POWER!!!
So if there is a reasonable chance of defeating the Consevative Government then I say DEFEAT HARPER and get back on the road to making Parliament work for Canadians.
Governing is important!
Sincerely,
MB
Until the partisan nonsense is gone for good we’re stuck with it for the time being.
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 11:09 pm
Thanks for the honest answer Charles and I agree, as long as we`re stuck with a defeatist attitude of the people we`re stuck with a failed partisan governance.
We in the west have a motto, reform or else. We have even suggested a provincially nominated federal government which would make it nearly impossible to carry partisanship to Ottawa.
As economic conditions force change due to 30 million really pissed off Cdns our federal politicians will be down to the two choices, reform or run. With the advent of the internet the media can`t protect them so odds are they will run.
Until the partisan nonsense is gone for good we’re stuck with it for the time being.
By Charles Oxley on 03.11.08 11:09 pm
New study out today called Generation ME. hmm seems I`ve heard that before, Generation X where X equals ME.
Looks like the younger generation is not affiliating themselves with political parties and few have intentions of voting, too much partisanship for them. Ottawa has lost the confidense and support.
Power of the internet for u, this post will travel around the world before I can lift my hand from the mouse.
Economic conditions will accelerate the change coming, it can be swift and clear, or brutal.
Something for all the partisan folks to think about.
no justice, no investment
v
Mr. F? Is that an Arrested Development reference? If so, good on you Garth.
Garth, Your party has shirked their responsibility – AGAIN – get on with your “supposed” priority of serving the people and not with serving your political aspirations. I thought government was to “govern” and not to “seek power”; SHAME!!
Also, it seems that the Liberal Caucus does what it is told to do in the same manner as the Conservative Causus does – is there really any difference between “them” and “you” ???
What? They have a cloaking device? I wonder if it’s Klingon or Romulan design?
By Greg on 03.12.08 7:48 am
Hello Greg. Supposedly the device comes from the Romulans, but I’m not too sure about that.
The Klingons were cross-bred with the Borg, which led to the advent of CRAP!
——————————————————————————————–
. . . We have even suggested a provincially nominated federal government which would make it nearly impossible to carry partisanship to Ottawa. . . .
The trouble primarily comes from two provinces — Que. and Ont. — simply because they have the largest populations.
For Ottawa, I like the idea of having a dozen MPs from each province, plus three territories, chosen by respective Prov. Govt.’s to represent all people first along with the best interests of our country.
That also is a pipe dream. As to Gen. X and Gen. ME, a.k.a. The ME Generation in the ’80s, as before runs entirely on corruption, greed and the like.
You are correct on one other thing — economic bubbles, as with all bubbles, have to pop sometime, somewhere. It is people who are caught in the middle who will end up suffering most, yet they did little or nothing to cause it.
That also is a pipe dream.
By Charles Oxley on 03.12.08 4:58 pm
Economic conditions might make the dream the option of choice.