So, what of the by-election results? Well,
(a) By the time you read this, 99.35% of Canadians will have stopped caring.
(b) The new MP from Saskatchewan needs media training. Seriously.
(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…
(d) Canadians in four ridings ought to have their little backsides twaddled. Bad voters. Use it or lose it.
(e) Appointed candidates are different from anointed ones.
(f) Elections should not be held on the Monday during March Break.
(g) The Dippers stepped in it.
(h) Thirty million pieces of taxpayer-funded Conservative direct mail may be having an effect.
(i) Mr. Dion needs to remind people the only way to actually get a green plan is to not vote for the Green Party
(j) Chuck who?
(k) Bashing Ontario worked really well for Mr. F in Toronto
(l) Will Bob Rae sit to the left of Stephane Dion?
(m) If you multiplied Joyce Murray’s plurality by 100,000 you still couldn’t buy a house in Quadra.
(n) The Orchard has yet to be harvested.
(o) Libs won three out of four.
(p) So, suck it up.
264 comments ↓
Thanks to Charles Adler for posting this on his website:
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be very Liberal, and was very much in favor of ‘the redistribution of wealth.’
She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Conservative, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harboured an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.
Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many college friends because she spent all her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, ‘How is your friend Audrey doing?’
She replied, ‘Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.’
Her wise father asked his daughter, ‘Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.’
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, ‘That wouldn’t be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!’
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, ‘Welcome to conservatism!’
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Thanks to Charles for copying and pasting that American tale. You, too. — Garth
Well done!
I’d disagree on your Green assumption though.
In a general election, I think there is room for a natural shift to Red by some who are parking at the moment. I also think there is room for some Greens to promote that.
The Orchard yet to be harvested? Yeah, that worries me too.
Your comment about the new Saskatchewan MP needing media training lacks cultural sensitivity and some Liberals and NDP would go so far to call it racism.
I just threw up — Garth
Garth, your putting the best face on a Dion disappointment outside of Toronto.
At least your more honest then MHF was on CTV….I was disappointed in PM Harper rush to recognize Kosovo, I hoped he would have acted a little more independent of the EU.
I hope you are not celebrating; you won 2; “slipped” through with the 3rd; and lost the other one decisively. This could easily have been “2 to 2.” This result isn’t exactly stunning by any means.
Personally, what I can’t understand is Bob Rae winning in Ontario after what his party did to the province when he was the premier – voters in Toronto have very short memories!
Garth Dion is on his way to becoming PM. Rae, Iggy, MHF, and many others will help him get highest political office in this land of ours.
But before doing so the Liberals have to vote against the government. That should be done soon because people are starting to see the Conservatives as a government that should be in place.
John G…that was pathetic. Charles Adler and I would presume Rush Limbaugh feed your intellect?
It’s tough to put the word intellect in that sentence, but if you understand it’s definition, you’ll also understand their, (and your), lack of faculty to comprehend what matters.
You missed Q; No plan by any Party
No David, we look to the future, not the past.
MJH…did you watch hin tonight? He is a good guy, I have no doubt, but the Con’s had Ritz by his side at all times.
He doesn’t look at the camera, he answers yep, no.
The guy needs serious media training. Don’t worry, he’ll get that and more.
Cultural insensitivity….how incredibly ridiculous!
(i) Mr. Dion needs to remind people the only way to actually get a green plan is to not vote for the Green Party
That’s the exact kind of attitude expected from the “old guard” Liberals and Conservatives. Same old CLAP.
I’ve never been a believer in convincing people not to vote for something. I’d much rather hear Mr. Dion convince me why I should trust his party with my vote on his own merits. He’s recently talked the green talk, but can he walk the green walk?
While strategically it may not be the best time to vote Green, it still may be necessary, even if only to send a message to the old boys in both major parties that the two-party system perpetuating the status quo decade after decade just isn’t going to lead us to a prosperous and sustainable future.
Sending a message won’t do squat for climate change. Dion will. Get a grip. — Garth
75% of Canadians didn’t care about the by-elecions in the first place!
David: This is not 1990–most Ontarians remember the Harris/Eves debacle–and the John Tory non-start. Do not expect voters to go back almost 20 years. Only the Conservatives will harp about the early 90’s.
Ref: I can’t understand is Bob Rae winning in Ontario after what his party did to the province when he was the premier – voters in Toronto have very short memories!
There are several reasons:
a) a significant portion of the voters in Toronto today weren’t in Toronto (or Canada) when Rae was the Premier;
b) left wing voters don’t consider high taxes, high deficits and poor spending choices to be bad things, thus they have a positive view of his legacy;
c) Liberal voters have only one guiding principal – win at any cost. They think Rae may be able to get them back at the trough so they will vote for him; and
d) Liberals have become a very small narrowly focused party – as seen in Quebec, their support is non-existant off the island of Montreal and slowly but surely, nationally, their support is being shrinking and becoming concentrated in Toronto.
MJH: Obviously you missed the Newman interview with the new Con M.P. He pretty much said the only reason he won was because it was very cold and he drove around in his car and met a lot of people. Nothing about his ideas.
He looked like he just got out of the car.
a message won’t go squat for climate change. Dion will. — Garth
Used hay creates a lot of methane which is many times worse than CO2.
(message 412/47 days)
By MJH on 03.18.08 10:13 pm
By-elections normally have a very low turnout. It is what they call the ‘protest vote’. Only those with an axe to grind, or very hard core supporters bother to vote. Mr. Dion should have taken all 4 by a huge majority.
I’ve been busy, and I’m wondering what I’ve missed. The gloves are off with May? Why? Does this mean you really will field a candidate in her riding after all? Really, why is the love affair over? Where there real tears?
Leasa
By David – Ontario on 03.18.08 9:59 pm
What exactly are you saying David – that a man isn’t capable of changing his outlook and philosophies?
If that’s the case we should be extremely worried about having Mr. Harper in power since his views on his own country are hardly complimentary as outlined in his 1997 speech to the Council for National Policy.
“First, facts about Canada. Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.”
Here’s the whole speech if you care to educate yourself.
And if you think Mr. Harper has honesty and integrity you might want to
watch this video.
By knb on 03.18.08 10:02 pm
Knb…you need only be offended if it applies to you! lol….
By John G on 03.18.08 9:31 pm
Did you really read that clap-ola before pasting it here? Only conservatives work hard and save and liberals are slackers? Bawhahahaha!!!
Guess that is why Harper was left with a hefty surplus that he has squanders and put our economy in jeopardy.
Ever hear of teaching a man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life? That’s liberal.
Unless the Ontario Liberals start putting much needed money into our hospital and nursing home systems, I and many other former Liberal voters will not be voting Liberal in the next election. The one thing Canadians cannot forgive or allow is underfunding our healthcare. We were just getting somewhere after the mess from the Cons ruling Ontario. Now, we’re slipping again and already are at dangerous levels.
Nice story, but I heard it a little differently.
Audrey actually grew up in a single parent home with her father in the picture just long enough for him to beat her mother and take everything the family owned while drinking from a rhum bottle. Her mother had to work day and night to feed the family and was not home in the evenings while Audrey was in grade school to make sure Audrey got her homework done. Audrey didn’t learn as much as she could have because she was not raised in a strong house like the girl who studied.
The studious girl actually responds to her dad at the end of the story and says, “Actually I know 9 other girls who grew up in a good home like me, and we would all be glad to give .1 of our GPAs and give Audrey a hand up so she could proceed in life with a better GPA and a better chance to succeed. Welcome to Liberalism, Dad.”
Good to see the dream-whipped team coming together.If I were Stephool and was still 850,000 in the glue,you would not be seeing an election till 2009,because when he gets trashed by PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER,there goes his ability to fundraise as Boob and Iggy will have the long knives pointing at his back faster than you can say HARPER MAJORITY!Good night Stephool.Don’t forget to sleep with one eye open.
Garth,
Here’s item q) – z):
$35 billoon dollar loss to Canadians and here’s what the (losing) CONservative candidate for Quadra had to say about it:
http://caiti-online.blogspot.com/2008/03/cadman-and-income-trust-scandals-on.html
(See youtube video)
Canadians had “too much money income trusts.” Can you believe that? I think Deborah Meredith went to the Steven Harper “It’s not my fault” School of Excuse Making.
New flash Deborah – Steven said he wouldn’t double tax income trusts. That’a why people continued to invest (too much) in them -duh!!
The CONservatives will fall hard on this issue. They lied. They are incompetant. And they cost ordinary Canadians $35 billion in lost retirement income, RESP savings and investment capital. Not to mention the billions per year in lost tax revenue as a direct result of this disasterous decision.
Garth, I wish you guys would pull the trigger so we Canadian could get some relief from these bozos.
Thanks to Charles for copying and pasting that American tale. You, too. — Garth
By John G on 03.18.08 9:31 pm
Nadda moi. That’s not my bag!
*******************************************
I just threw up — Garth
By MJH on 03.18.08 9:51 pm
To placate your office, I understand there are some good, local vomitoriums somewhere around here, where you can spew to your heart’s content!
Said voms. however, are not “new age” nor politically correct.
By Men With Hats on 03.17.08 2:25 pm
I bet you would not dare to say that using your real name. What a sissy coward you are. BTW…it’s not okay to beat your wife if no one knows about it either. Leasa
By Leasa on 03.17.08 2:59 pm
Leasa,
Such a fuss over nit-picking the “knit picking”. No matter how wrong you are you just go on and on, digging yourself in deeper.
Evidently you missed my recent comments on Archie Bunker or you just chose to ignore them and typically bumbled on in your arrogant, dogmatic manner. In case you missed it, I am repeating part of the posting here.
“Interesting that you should bring up Archie Bunker. We have been watching reruns of “All in The Family” recently and it ironically occurred to me that Archie is a typical neocon. Further to this, observing his lines of reasoning and debating tactics it was obvious that he seldom consults the facts and makes things up as he goes along. He always inserts his own spin. He quotes out of context, adds embellishment to sources to make a point, makes statements unrelated to the subject at hand, strives fiercely to get in the last word by saying anything that comes to mind. He firmly believes that if he can get in the last word he has won the argument. When all else fails he becomes angry , insulting and offensive and finalizes his arguments with “Pfffftttt”. Leasa this is all too familiar. You, in fact, are a female Archie Bunker. (If you really are a female). ”
I was surprised that so soon after I posted the above, that in you rantings about nit-picking(vs knit-picking), you played out the above almost as if you were following a script. All that was missing THIS time was “Pfffftttt”.
Do you really think this enhances your credibility?
By David – Ontario on 03.18.08 9:59 pm
Personally, what I can’t understand is Bob Rae winning in Ontario after what his party did to the province when he was the premier – voters in Toronto have very short memories!
……………………………….
Hey David … did you know that according to StatsCan, 52% of Torontonians did not even live in Canada 13 years ago .. just when Premier BobRae left office in 1995 …. so how can they remember Rae’s disasterous government .. they weren’t here…??!!
Really when you think about it, Toronto is not Canada.
Garth,
Dear friend…get a reality CHECK! Elizabeth MAy has far more knowledge and abiltity than Stephane Dion on OUR environment.
Not to sound like some, but Dion blew it as the Minister of Environment. Ambrise and Vaiurf are not even worthy of mention..they are both parrots and jokes.
Rae will be the NEW leader of the Libs simply because Dion is a Quebecer, and cannot carry that province. He stood against their delusion of seperation, and they will NEVER forget it. Iggy’s best bet is ‘Go home to the US’
Granted, the PQ is delusional as can be, but that is not going to be the talking point Canadians recall.
Sorry Garth, but I speak TRUTH, and that is immutable!
The wisest thing the Libs can do is cozy up to Elizabeth May, because, despite my deep repsect for you, that does not translate to the Liberal Party en mass!
Help Elizabeth toss out McKay, and then we can look at the future. Right now, neither the Libs or the CRAPper’s have one.
I do say this as a friend and supporter.
BTW, TTTC is, again, engaged in Battle Royale with his Nipissing counterpart up here over FedNor!
To me, and I suspect most Canadians, it is not about a party, but about Canada, hence US!
Joyce Muarry was the new Comical Ali today on Duff… CPC tanks were rolling through the shot behind her as she exclaimed her decisive win.
I hope you and the Lib caucus actually believes this bs spin and brings us down.
As long as Dion is liberal leader, the liberals will be sucking it at the poles in the next election.
I take exception to your D)
It is not right for one to not vote. Veterans have fought in 2 World Wars to give us that right, and should be used wherever possible. What I take exception to is why do you have a right to complain? Canadians have given your party and yourself the right to vote for the lot of the whole riding. Your party has for their own strategy neglected to vote on their behalf. What is the point in voting, if the Member that has won and gone to Ottawa, is not obligated to vote. It is not the Liberals call to sit out important votes such as budgets and votes to do with military. Why should Canadians such as myself make the effort when no effort is returned. I would not want to have a Conservative who is muzzled represent our area. I would not want a Liberal who would abstain at will for strategy reasons. With that I can either chose Green as the best of the worst, or vote Independent who won’t stand a chance except for a very few. Why should I vote in the next election when the last 2 years have been a pathetic attempt at democracy?
I still think we need to pull the plug on harper
Hey Garth … who’s yo’ leadah .. ??!!!
Little off topic but another sickening spectacle coming up from the Harper scumbags. MPs’ visit to imprisoned woman slammed as ‘photo op
Hi there,
I voted Green in Vancouver Quadra because I thought I could afford to, but in the general election, I’ll vote Liberal. In our first-past-the-post system, one should vote against their least-favored option so as not to aid them.
WTG Liberal Team!
Harper pretzeled himself trying to scuttle the by-elections and failed, abjectly.
Have you listened to the whingers and apologists? Pathetic really. Sore losers the lot of them.
Keep on!
“(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…”
So is Stephane Dion running a Liberal candidate against Elizabeth May? Or will he continue to subvert democracy?
Garth,
How about a comment on the by-election in Saskatchewan. Goodale is not looking too good on his advice to Dion to block the nomination process which probably would have seen David Orchard as the Liberal candidate. People who screw over Orchard have a habit of wearing their mistake for a good while.
As much as I loathe Harper and the Cons and as much as it pains me to say it, gut-check time for Dion is fast approaching,after which point the wishy-washy, malleable, “doesn’t quite have the mettle to cut it” image is going to resonate far and wide.
This allowing the Cons to do whatever the hell they please with a minority is getting pathetic.
The biggest losers Monday night were the NDP. Clearly the voters were not buying Mr. Layton’s rhetoric. It will be interesting to see if the NDP are still so willing to take down the government.
“Sending a message won’t go squat for climate change. Dion will. Get a grip. — Garth”
Just curious Garth…Dion did squat for the environment during his time before becoming Liberal leader. What exactly do you think he’s going to do now? Because frankly, I’ve not heard any good ideas out of him.
The silly deathstar nit-picking monkeys, pounding away on their KB, between snacks, just can’t stand it.
Yes, the CRAP won one riding way hell and gone up north. Again they could not pull a win out of any urban ridings. Hell, they could barely put up a debate but we know why that is don’t we? It’s exactly the same thing all the CRAPpers must do… Speak only when directed to. Never, ever hold a thought of your own. Your ass is owned by SH now.
And to Martha, Joyce (tho I’d be hard pressed to vote for her if Quadra was where I lived) and Bob; Congratulations on your wins, all three of them, and I know we’ll all be hearing from you soon.
Congrats to the Libs… you’ve got triplets. This is an announcement of great joy:)
Can we have an election now, or at least kick one off when the snow has melted out by you guys? Can I send a pic of my little cherry tree in first bloom?
Geo
Sending a message won’t do squat for climate change. Dion will. Get a grip. — Garth
The problem is that voting Liberal will do even less.
Perhaps that 99.35% of Canadians remember all that brouhaha about fixed election dates…so for them they will not give a dam until then. But me fears that come the spring of 2009 which is not really that far off counting yet another round of extended vacations from what’s his name” due to any lack of positive plans to help Canadians. As far as the mail most went into the trash and sooner rather than later most people will just treat it as junk, and most stayed home so perhaps they did Garth.
What is on Canadians minds ? THE ECONOMY STUPID…and it will only get worst. Lou Dobbs has stated this: “we are in serious! serious! trouble” Just wait until GWB asks for yet $100 Billion while their infrastructure peters on destruction, not to mention the fall out from sub prime. B&S suspected assets were $7 Trillion so there is more to come on that front…….all dat is way over this ode man’s head bye. Perhaps Flaherty knows…..for he is sure one fart smeller, just ask him.
“(j) Chuck who?”
You guys didn’t really expect the Cadman thing to move the polls, did you?
bodyshots. there’s no such thing as easy.
using chess as a model, spot the gambit look for the pin.
For anyone who is interested, below is a link to sign a petition urging the government of China to show restraint in their reaction to the situation in Tibet.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence/6.php?cl=62152027
By MJH on 03.18.08 9:51 pm
Because the CPC are spoon fed from the centre of their government, the PMO, Garth you need to explain your comments in syllables of one or less for their benefit.
I believe your comment should have said:
“The new Saskatchewan MP needs media training so that he won’t say stuff the PMO doesn’t want said.”
As for twaddling…. I would suggest the “Spanish Inquisition.” (No disrespect to the Spanish intended, MJH)
Corruption
Candidate furor splits Tory factions
String of charges in Mississauga East-Cooksville as several board members quit over acclamation
Mar 19, 2008 04:30 AM
Joanna Smith
Staff Reporter
A group of Tories in Mississauga fear the federal party is abandoning its populist roots after officials sped up the process to choose who will run for a seat in the next election.
“I won’t be a party to that kind of corruption,” said Charles Conn, one of 10 people who recently resigned in protest from the electoral district association board of directors for Mississauga East-Cooksville.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/347646
Paul Martin already visited Brenda Martin.This photo-op has really angered her family and friends.Already today they have been called disgusting by a voter and corrupt by their own party members.
SHAME on Harper.
MPs’ trip to see Brenda Martin just a ‘photo op’
Charles Rusnell, Canwest News Service
Published: Wednesday, March 19, 2008
TORONTO — A trip by two Conservative MPs to Mexico to visit Brenda Martin is being slammed by her supporters as political grandstanding.
“This is absolutely disgusting,” said Deb Tieleman, a childhood friend of Martin, who has been held without trial for two years.
“You would have thought that the Conservative government would have the common decency and empathy not to send them down there for a photo opportunity,” said Tieleman who has led the campaign to win the release of the 51-year-old Trenton, Ont., native
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=19a15c23-671a-4453-8229-b5e09fb723dc
Personally, what I can’t understand is Bob Rae winning in Ontario after what his party did to the province when he was the premier – voters in Toronto have very short memories!
By David – Ontario on 03.18.08 9:59 pm
You may think so but Mr. Rae began by trying to spend his way out of a recession, then realized it was depper than expeced and reversed course and saved tons of jobs by creating “Rae Days”, also took the stance against the unions and great political expense. It would appear that Ontario was more important to him at that time than his political future. Having said that, he is a politician like most of the rest of them and whether you chosse to vote CPC or LIB, the result will be the same.
Bob Rae was elected because he is a brilliant, principled man who will make a great contribution to Parliament. Period.
Amazing how peoples’ hatred distorts truth.
Bill Muskoka – you don’t like Iggy – so you tell him to go back “home” to the US? He only lived in the US for 4 years “teaching” – and this is done by a lot of Canadians. My neice’s sister-in-law is now teaching at Harvard and she’s “Canadian”. This is good for her resume and she expects to come back “home” to Canada. Perhaps you are the one who is truly “American” living in Canada and should go back home if you find things so offensive here.
“b) left wing voters don’t consider high taxes, high deficits and poor spending choices to be bad things, thus they have a positive view of his legacy;” – now we know that the CPC supporters don’t know what they’re talking about – the Conservatives haven’t balanced a budget since 1912 (that’s historical fact) and are now riding on the money tray the Liberals gave them – that’s a fact.
After extending the olive branch, Elizabeth May turns on Dion – she’s toast as far as I’m concerned.
(i) Mr. Dion needs to remind people the only way to actually get a green plan is to not vote for the Green Party
Hmm.. isn’t this a conservative tactic?
Sending a message won’t do squat for climate change. Dion will. Get a grip. — Garth
No he won’t. The only way Liberals or Conservatives will fight climate change is if they start losing their jobs to the Green Party… otherwise it will be all talk and “studies”.
Thugs vandalize MP’s helpers vehicles
Tires slashed, cars scratched in byelection winner’s riding
By BRYN WEESE, SUN MEDIA
The Toronto Sun
Political thuggery is alive and well in Willowdale.
Following Martha Hall Findlay’s landslide win in that riding in the north end of the city Monday night, scores of her supporters woke up yesterday morning to find their tires had been slashed and the letter “L” had been scratched into their cars.
The Sun has learned at least 14 vehicles were vandalized, many yesterday night but some Sunday night, a day before Findlay trounced her opponents with nearly 60% support.
At least one of the victims is a woman in her 70s who had two tires slashed.
Of the vandalized cars the Sun knows about, all were parked in private driveways with Martha Hall Findlay campaign signs in the yard, even though some had been taken down yesterday
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/03/19/5047081-sun.html
John G … that was pathetic. Charles Adler and I would presume Rush Limbaugh feed your intellect?
By knb on 03.18.08 10:02 pm
Limbaugh “DOES” Michael J. Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEah7_lzsOU
Good observation, knb! I think we can lump a lot of people (who have drawn their ’spiritual support’ from the well of contempt), into the Limbaugh camp.
Look at David Frum, Ezra Levant and the entire Harper charade brigade. There are parallels in the Canadian
‘establishment.’
I thought you might enjoy a bit of
‘history,’ dealing with the Harper & Co. tendency to proclaim, “Guilty until proven innocent.” In the vastness of our woefully uninformed/uninformative media, there are many such examples. Wild statements often originate within the Harper group of exhibitionists.
One such, dealing with Maher Arar as ‘terrorist,’ is provided as an example. In the end, Harper apologized, on behalf of the government but, by then, most observers had forgotten he, Ablonczy and Day had initiated and fed the suspicion while they were in opposition. All the false and misleading statements were made under the umbrella of immunity in the house of commons.
The Canadian Press has compiled quotes from Opposition MPs in November 2002, as news broke of Arar’s detention in Syria and possible terrorist links:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070126/arar_quotes_070126/20070126/
I’m sure you would NOT expect me to feel SYMPATHY for Limbaugh’s addiction to OXYCONTIN, either. As for the CPC and their BIM-BOTS, their word carries NO CREDIBILITY.
Sending a message won’t do squat for climate change. Dion will. Get a grip. — Garth
“There are some folks that may have voted Liberal in the past and wanted to send us [as riding incumbents] a message on climate change and sustainability – and we got that message loud and clear,” said Bruce Young, British Columbia Liberal campaign.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080319.wbyquadra19/BNStory/Front
Voting for the absolute best option, instead of against the worst does make a positive impact. As long as Stephen Harper’s party remains in power, Dion isn’t getting much done about climate change either.
I’m waiting to judge based on policy and vision. We’ve seen the Greens, and hopefuly soon the Liberal policy will be revealed as well.
The silly deathstar nit-picking monkeys, pounding away on their KB, between snacks, just can’t stand it.
Georgine,
Glad to see that you spelled “nit-picking” right. That gives you a distinct edge over Leasa.
By the way have you ever seen someone who was obviously so wrong arguing so vehemently that she was right?
Gord
WELL,WELL,WELL…the intolerant, racist comments about the new Saskatchewan Conservative M.P….has certainly flushed out what the Liberals truly are…An intolerant, racist bunch…and there you have it!
Links? — Garth
Whoever Canadians vote for, please don’t put Harper at the helm again!
Garth I won’t go into the Green debate as that is where our vote is right now however “(d) Canadians in four ridings ought to have their little backsides twaddled. Bad voters. Use it or lose it.”
This brought a smile to my face and a chuckle to my belly…the same could be said of YOU and the LIBERAL party! You sit, don’t vote, abstain, walk out.
Maybe Canadians are just mirroring their Liberal MP’s in Ottawa!
I don’t expect you’ll acknowledge or respond to this comment.
By Ron on 03.18.08 10:24 pm
Ron you left out:
e)Conservatives have become a very narrowly focused party that could not understand an urban issue even while standing in a sinkhole.
f)Toronto, and Ontario, do not like trash talking finance ministers.
g)Conservatives disqualify their own candidates for even suggesting there are urban issues.
Very interesting opinions floating around like turds in a swimming pool this morning.
Candidate furor splits Tory factions
String of charges in Mississauga East-Cooksville as several board members quit over acclamation.
A group of Tories in Mississauga fear the federal party is abandoning its populist roots after officials sped up the process to choose who will run for a seat in the next election.
“I won’t be a party to that kind of corruption,” said Charles Conn, one of 10 people who recently resigned in protest from the electoral district association board of directors for Mississauga East-Cooksville.
The string of resignations came as the riding association moved quickly toward acclaiming former beauty queen and former Liberal Melissa Bhagat as its candidate.
Greens gain at expense of Liberals, NDP
Yeah, well imagine that? Votes are not a renewable resource, there are only so many available. Now maybe that little Green lesson in reality will mean something to the Libs, CRAPpers, and I doubt, the Dippers.
Canada rejects interim helicopter fix for Afghanistan
The Defence Department has turned down an offer of six U.S. Blackhawk helicopters for its operations in Kandahar in the hope it can still acquire larger choppers for the Afghanistan mission.
U.S. helicopter manufacturer Sikorsky offered the six Blackhawks, noting that it would be able to deliver the choppers to Kandahar this year.
The Blackhawk, one of the U.S. army’s main frontline aircraft, can carry 11 combat troops or haul a 105-mm howitzer plus ammunition. It is currently being used in Afghanistan.
But the Defence Department says that is not enough to justify the purchase of the Blackhawks as a stop-gap until it can get its larger Chinook choppers sometime in or after 2011. It wants any helicopters for the Afghan operation to be able to transport up to 30 soldiers and be able to carry the Canadian Forces new 155-mm howitzer.
Boy, now that is real leadership by Harper’s boy McKay. We have how many helicopters available? ZERO! We have an opportunity to acquire what we need NOW, but WTF, the troops can WAIT until 2011. I imagine the re-enlistment rate is going to seriously drop even further and soon Ottawa can simply hire Blackwater to do the job.
Obama tries to end ‘racial stalemate’
As is usual, the MSM plays the RACIST CARD over and over. Anyone with an IQ of 80 could understand what Obama actually said, and he was 100% right in doing so. Bottom line for the White MSM is they just cannot fathom a N… in the White House, and that is the real truth. They write headlines to make it sound totally different than what was actually said, and then fail to think about what was said..
They will now spin this story anyway they feel will defeat the best candidate since JFK. The pundits are all like trained seals…throw them a fish and they will all try to devour it at the same time without any thought.
I suspect when the real voices of the PEOPLE are heard, these slimeball pundits will slither back under their rock. GOOD, that is where they belong. Thankfully we have lots of rock here because I can think of one that will need a very BIG slab of rock to hide under. He resides in Ottawa and people can see him on exhibit on CTV.
Maybe the MSM will learn how to actually report the news instead of manipulating it with their idiotic opinions? Yeah, right, when Hell Freezes Over.
And here is one for the books. All those Law Abiding CRAPpers can’t seem to handle democracy too well, in fact they can’t handle it at all.
Thugs vandalize MP’s helpers vehicles
Political thuggery is alive and well in Willowdale.
Following Martha Hall Findlay’s landslide win in that riding in the north end of the city Monday night, scores of her supporters woke up yesterday morning to find their tires had been slashed and the letter “L” had been scratched into their cars.
The Sun has learned at least 14 vehicles were vandalized, many yesterday night but some Sunday night, a day before Findlay trounced her opponents with nearly 60% support.
At least one of the victims is a woman in her 70s who had two tires slashed.
Of the vandalized cars the Sun knows about, all were parked in private driveways with Martha Hall Findlay campaign signs in the yard, even though some had been taken down yesterday.
“It’s thuggery, that’s what it is,” said Lino Belgiorgio who had nine tires slashed among the family’s three vehicles. “You’ll end up thinking twice before ever expressing any political view, and that’s a deterioration of our civil liberties. We can’t allow that to happen.”
I hope the PUNKS that did this are proud as Canadians? Knowing the mindlessness of such maggots I bet they are proud. Just like Harper is of his malfesance in office and lieing.
After extending the olive branch, Elizabeth May turns on Dion – she’s toast as far as I’m concerned.
By slg on 03.19.08 7:49 am
What are the great transgressions that Ms. May is guilty of? Did I miss something?
Any guesses why the GHG curve in this CPC picture stops at 2003?
Good news for Tories in vote results
Mar 19, 2008 04:30 AM
CHANTAL HÉBERT
OTTAWA–If the city of Toronto could determine the outcome of the next federal election, Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion would be prime minister before Canada Day. But it cannot and what the tea leaves of Monday’s four federal by-elections really suggest is that a majority Conservative government could be around the corner of a spring campaign.
From that angle, Bob Rae and Martha Hall Findlay, who romped to victory in Toronto Centre and Willowdale on Monday night, are but the best faces that the Liberals could put on an apprehended defeat in a general election.
Coming out of this week’s votes, Stephen Harper leads the only party in the House of Commons that has systematically consolidated its support since the last election, a trend established in a series of by-elections in Quebec last fall.
Ed Brooks…it seems now that even the Star is agreeing with me.
To ‘Resident on’
PEI is on March break this week. Last week Nova Scotia was, and the week before New Brunswick was….
Not sure about out west I live in Nova Scotia.
I agree voting green is just wasting time. It’s not a time for messages, a time for messages was way back when Dion was environment minister and global warming was just opening its big evil eye. We are past that now, even if PMSH doesn’t want to admit that it exists. Now is the time to ACT. PMSH is clearly anti action on global warming, I personally feel the liberals are our best bet.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a culture of defeat to go and practise.
By slg on 03.19.08 7:49 am
Well, tell you what! When you see Iggy as I do, through the eyes of American experience, then you will know who is the real Canadian.
Iggy is a key element of the NAU/SPP plan, and is like a Trojan just waiting for the opportunity to destroy the enemy…which is what his American backers perceive as a socialist state called Canada.
If, and when, his positions change I will reconsider him otherwise, and not until. His record speaks too loudly to ignore.
John G.: Do you even follow Chantel Hiebert’s columns? She is so anti-Liberal and Bloc. All of her columns knock Dion and prop up Harper.
You must enhance your critical reading skills if you are to be plausible in your quotes.
Considering how the Harper Caucus and party are run I see no difference between them and the Russian Politbureau, formerly the Soviets. If you dare think different than the Party Line you are OUT!
Apparently, that practice exists in all parties to some extent. So much for true democracy.
This is all about egotism and power, not about getting a DAMN thing accomplished.
“Stephane,we didn’t get it done.Why didn’t we get it done?Why didn’t we do better?”Because your leader leads the bumbling cast of the Dream-whipped duds.
(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…
—-
What do you mean by this? I think a lot of people are attracted to the Greens because of the environment AND because the Greens run a postive, issue based campaign. They make it clear that Harper is bad for Canada and why, but they don’t go around bashing Liberals with simplistic sloganeering like the CPC and NDP do. I think the LPC should do the same, fight a positive campaign. Convince Canadians you have what it takes to lead Canada in a positive way, criticize actions and policies (and unethical behaviour of course) and expose the simplistic sloganeering of the CPC.
BTW, please take a critical look at the national LPC advertising. I’ve heard they need something much better.
There will never be a Green government, a Green official opposition or likely even Green Party status in the House. That means those of us desperate for a climate change strategy – now – have but one option for prime minister – Stephane Dion. If Elizabeth May cared more about that cause than her own cause, she’d work towards this end. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but the times demand it. — Garth
(l) Will Bob Rae sit to the left of Stephane Dion?
And will he walk one step behind like Prince Philip?
(o) Libs won three out of four.
(p) So, suck it up.
Ya, I hear the sucking sound coming all the way from the West.
Is that the sound of the Liberal balloon imploding, or a tail wind caused by the rush of voters going Green?
Wake up sleepy Jean
Oh what can it mean
To a day dream believer
And a homecoming queen.
Are you okay? — Garth
By Duane on 03.18.08 11:11 pm
Your response to Adlers clip is the perfect illustration of Liberal thought, and precisely why that theory fails. Those that work hard and take risk’s are the ones that drive this country, and deserve praise not taxation. If you want an example of what giving without earning accomplishes take a look at a 10 year old house on a native reserve compared to one nearby where you live. That is not to take a cheap shot at natives, but to show what welfare policy does to waste resources .
Orchard is a loon. The Liberals were stuck between a rock and a hard place there and I think they made the right long term decision.
“There will never be a Green government, a Green official opposition or likely even Green Party status in the House. That means those of us desperate for a climate change strategy – now – have but one option for prime minister – Stephane Dion. If Elizabeth May cared more about that cause than her own cause, she’d work towards this end. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but the times demand it. — Garth”
Well I’m still sticking with the Greens despite all you say Garth. IF a Green ever made it to the HoC they would VOTE. Liberals are already there but sit, abstain, walk-out. So where is the representation?
Governments make environmental policy, not individual MPs. If you truly care about this issue, you will stop being dogmatic. Helps nothing. — Garth
(i) Mr. Dion needs to remind people the only way to actually get a green plan is to not vote for the Green Party
This is exactly why I’m voting Green – the whole political process is tainted by unfair voting systems, and the Greens are the only ones that have really talked about making any significant changes. (not as significant as I’d like, but I haven’t heard a peep from any of the other big parties).
A vote for one party shouldn’t take a vote away from another similar party.
Here, in the real world, it does. — Garth
Are you okay? — Garth
By Greg on 03.19.08 9:59 am
Is the Liberal party ok? That is more to the point.
The shift to Green has been on for a while now. Flip flops like Afghanistan and parachuting candidates only exacerbate your dilemma.
Wake up sleepy Jean.
garth,thanks for having this conversation.I listen each day,to you and your guests,and appreciate what I’m learning.It seems to me that one party wants to protect their assets and each other from scrutiny,and one party cares about the common good,for the most people,in this nation-welcome to Liberalism!So,thanks for being there Garth!Time for people who truly care about issues that affect ALL of us,to clean North America up after the greed,lies and total selfishness of those in power. Keep the fight,Garth! We have to “KICK AT THE DARKNESS,TIL IT BLEEDS DAYLIGHT!” Linda
By Judy on 03.19.08 9:38 am
Judy, that would not be allowed at the Star! I think you are confusing the only honest journalist with the rest…..
but the times demand it. — Garth
What times? What did she do? Just a few months ago, Mr. Dion was singing her praises and making appearances with her. You were also saying she was all but the second coming.
~Ms. May, count your friends…remember you only need 6~ Leasa
Chantel doesn’t like Dion. No big deal.
There’s nothing to indicate any of this involved swing voters at all.
Hi Reefer Sutherland,
Thanks for the links.
The speach is really telling as to what PMSH really wants to do to Canada.
The video is truely telling!
Here’s the whole speech if you care to educate yourself. artical.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/20051214/
And if you think Mr. Harper has honesty and integrity you might want to
watch this video. 5min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br31mdP8-Ug
Have you read George Owells books, like
1984?
“The problem is that voting Liberal will do even less.” – C. B. Innes, at 6:44 am
Sad to say, that is a logical conclusion based on the Liberal track record in opposition. Do something, Liberals, or resign yourselves to impotence.
Dogmatic? Garth, maybe it isn’t the Green agenda that could bring the Greens into the HoC but rather because voters are fed up watching the BEHAVIOUR of ALL MP’s in the HoC.
You yourself once touted a change in the behaviour and elevating Canadian Politics. The question is would elected Greens rise up to elevate that level or would they stoop to the level of the others?
Governments make environmental policy, not individual MPs. If you truly care about this issue, you will stop being dogmatic. Helps nothing. — Garth
By dj on 03.19.08 10:08 am
Right there you expose the fallacy in your thinking Garth.
The ‘government’ is made of the individual MP’s. Unfortunately, most of you have forgotten that, or have been partying so damn long you don’t even grasp it. We are supposed to have all 308 MP’s acting on behalf of their constituents as OUR government. Not a minority of parrots huddled together in secret by Caesar Disgustus.
Based on observation I have come to more expect a great opus being written by 100 monkeys banging on typewriters than meaningful legislation from 308 MP’s banging on their desks in committee or QP!
The monkeys at least could claim the status of a tribe. The HoC is merely a mob of politicians hell bent on power and shutting out any fresh ideas.
Congrats…you have copied the American Congress perfectly. Hence the phrase ‘If ‘pro’ is the opposite of ‘con’ does that mean Congress is the opposite of progress?’
This game has reached its end with me. Maybe we should all just withhold our taxes and bring this managerie of misfits down on our own! Dim Jim has already drqained the treasury buying votes with our money. I say, we should demand a refund!
“Remember, remember, the Fifth of November”
Fools are aplenty, wise ones few!
PS. Governments only PROPOSE policy while MP’s VOTE for it either way.
Can you tell how PO’d Liberal supporters are with the current abstain/prop up strategy?….Of course you can, your own MP’s are voicing it. Maybe it is a time for a change at the top if that is the case.
If Elizabeth May cared more about that cause than her own cause, she’d work towards this end. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but the times demand it. — Garth
Oh really? So, please explain what May’s working together has been all about in McKay’s riding with Stephane Dion? Enquiring minds want to know!
Could it be the people there will NOT elect a Liberal in this millenia?
Sorry to disagree with my virtual MP, but governments do not make environmental policy either. Governments do what they are driven to do by John Q. Public, and when John Q. Public perceives and expresses a need to act, governments react, no matter what colour they may sport.
Fear of the voter is about the only vestige of democracy we have left. It’s slow, but it works.
All voters should ask themselves carefully why Conservatives like you are urging people to vote Green. Hint: It’s not for the environment. — Garth
You’re being sarcastic with the comment about Flaherty bashing Toronto, right?
I can’t but think F. is doomed in the next election. He can say “I’m bringing the Train” as many times as he likes and all the Liberal candidate has to do is say, “And you will take that train where? Certainly not to all the jobs Flaherty chased away”.
“(i) Mr. Dion needs to remind people the only way to actually get a green plan is to not vote for the Green Party”
As a green-grit, it would really help if Dion made the GPC irrelevant by adopting and consistently pushing more of its core policies. This has been the hope for those us who jumped from the GPC ship and onto the great vessel Liberal.
Cutting a deal over Central Nova is not going to stop greens from voting green, and many greens remain skeptical that the Liberal machine will do any meaningful reform. While at Green candidate Chris Tindal’s TO-Centre campaign office on byelection night (“Who let the Liberal in!”), my green friends kept pushing that point.
We need to work harder to convince them otherwise. Votes do not come free — unless you get to spend public money chasing them.
By John G on 03.19.08 9:21 am
There you go cherry-picking again.
Do you also agree with The Star on any of these stories:
CadmanJames Howard Kunstler
Nafta
Flaherty
Dismissive Tories
For every opinion or poll you choose to cite, there are a multitude of opposites. But heck, what’s your opinion?
Are you happy with the way the Conservatives are appearing to write-off urban centres? Are you happy with the way Ontario is being treated?
Do you think there is nothing to the Cadman story? If so, why is Art Hanger stonewalling?
Do you think that gerrymandering is acceptable?
John, I have no great love for the Liberal Party; I have spent my entire adult life loathing what Trudeau and Chretien did. I have supported the Progressive Conservative party since Stanfield was the leader.
That being said, I do not understand what has happened to my Conservative Party, because this party lead by Stephen Harper is not it.
Again, I ask, if you see where the Conservatives are going to win the extra seats to form a majority, let me know. I just don’t see it. In terms of the ‘selling’ of the Conservative brand to the Canadian voters, I don’t see where they have done such a good job of that. I mean really, against an old, corrupt, scandal-filled Liberal Party, lead by a stumbling boob they haven’t put any distance between them in 2+ years.
By the way, have the Halton CPC found the empty suit yet that will beat Garth in the next election? I keep looking at the website for news, but it never seems to be updated. Isn’t there a new president?
By Ed Brooks on 03.19.08 10:42 am
First attempt at http reference. Almost, got it right…
Am I missing something on a Green/Liberal rift?
As long as we are on the upswing, what are the Liberal positions on OUR environment?
Interestingly, the Ontario Liberals seem to have more leadership than the Federal Party. The local people, in today’s Star poll online
The Nanticoke coal-fired power station on Lake Erie is closing in 2014 and locals want to replace it with a nuclear plant. Is this a good idea?
are supporting replacing the Nanticoke Coal Fired Plant with a new nuclear one by 67%.
Somehow, Rome Burns (aka Nero, Got rope, Sheesh what a Rap sheet he has developed…LOL) idea of an ‘appointed’ Parliament is starting to make more sense every day. We sure as Hell aren’t getting any accountability from most MP’s now.
I am waiting to see what happens in QP when Bob Rae takes a seat. That may make things very interesting.
Hi Randy on 03.19.08 2:30 am,
Maybe PMSH can switch places with Brenda Martin in a Mexican prison!
What are the chances Harper could just bring her home with him this week?
Why are Canadians Not being told to stay away from mexico?
Has our right to a fare process been compromised by Harper signing the SPP deal to harmonize all our standards with the USA and Mexico, by unelected persons!
If they can do it to her they can do it to YOU and your family!
What kind of world do you want to live in?
Have you been paying attention, are you informed, are you a critical thinker?
Something to think about. 33 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOuq4pY10o&eurl=http://current.com/items/88864596_mtv_warns_about_a_police_state
So is Stephane Dion running a Liberal candidate against Elizabeth May? Or will he continue to subvert democracy?
By Catherine on 03.19.08 4:28 am
What about the subvert democracy by the Corporate run media cotrolling who they let into the leaders debates!!!
By Harry S on 03.18.08 11:46 pm
Really when you think about it, Toronto is not Canada.
My least favorite thing about Harry S. are the bigoted comments. It seems lately that they have been getting worse too.
I don’t want to generalize, but there is something about this that seems at the heart of the CPC, that Canada isn’t a multicultural nation whose great strength lies in diversity, but rather some narrow vision. It goes along with the strategy in which it seems that it is alright to exclude certain groups (read: Ontario) so long as the ends justify the means. I still meet, and hear, CPC supporters who claim that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is one of the worst things to ever happen to Canada.
I wish more people would get this about the CPC, because if there is one thing I am most worried about it is Harper taking us down this road past a point of no return.
LMOA! Duffy’s listing: One on One with Liberal Leader Bob Rae!
http://nbcdipper.ca/2008/03/19/the-leader-of-the-liberals-is/
Zorph, get on that!
And can those guys please please RETIRE?
“(b) The new MP from Saskatchewan needs media training. Seriously”
Should he get the same training as your great leader?
You libs must be proud.
Somehow, Rome Burns (aka Nero, Got rope, Sheesh what a Rap sheet he has developed…LOL) idea of an ‘appointed’ Parliament is starting to make more sense.
I am waiting to see what happens in QP when Bob Rae takes a seat.
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 10:46 am
I was shocked Billy, shocked I tell you when I read this.
lol, you are such a tease.
My understanding on Rae. He is needed to increase CH4 to make HoC self suffecient. There`s 40 years worth of used hay in the basement to run our elected federal government on. No need for the grid. They can be the last light burning in Canada.
“All voters should ask themselves carefully why Conservatives like you are urging people to vote Green. Hint: It’s not for the environment. — Garth”
What, in hundreds of comments, has given you the idea that I am a Conservative?
I want the neo-Republican disgrace out and my Canada back. Until the Speech from the Throne vote I thought that the Liberals were my Great White Hope of getting a respectable government back. Since then, it’s been nothing but Liberal opportunism to avoid the risk of a general election, hardly a promising operating principle for any new government.
I urge no one to vote for any party, but all to vote by their lights whenever the time comes.
Adler’s clip demonstrates a perfect willingness to accept the underlying assumption disadvantage is a consequence of volition. Its a cruel, insecure and selfish society that ignores the needs of many to avoid being unfairly used by a few.
Rumor, Rumor, talk of the street,Rae promises Alan Js. Old supporters that there will definately be a liberal running against McKay if he has anything to do about it.
By John G on 03.19.08 10:20 am
Presumably, you also agree with these recent comments from Chantal:
That kind of attention transcends government departments and partisan politics; it often requires that one stand shoulder to shoulder with political foes. In this case, for instance, the mission cannot move forward without a reconciliation of the Liberal and Conservative positions and some heavy diplomatic lobbying on the part of the Prime Minister. None of the above will come easily or naturally to Harper.
Neither his minority status nor his conservative philosophy account for Harper’s superficial policy approach.
More than ideology, the sense that Harper has been reluctant to rise to challenges larger than those posed by his immediate partisan goals accounts for the unease that his leadership continues to inspire. It leaves many voters with few compelling reasons to want more of his leadership.
Prime ministers have brought a bunker mentality to office in the past but Harper is the first to expend so much energy to batten down the hatches of an entire public administration.
The summary firing of Linda Keen for the apparent sin of doing her job is part of a recurring pattern that fits nicely – for lack of a better word – in the larger picture of the adversarial relationship Harper’s office entertains with independent officers of Parliament, the media, his fellow premiers, the federal public service and, at times, some of the government’s own ministers.
Informed Canadians know that the reason the Liberal and the Conservative positions on NAFTA ties their hands when it comes to developing real green policies. They have to play games with the issue. The Green Party is the only one that faces the problem head on.
Anyone serious about the environmental issue needs to understand the contradiction between supporting NAFTA and environmental policy.
Chantel Herbert is a self-declared supporter of Quebec independence. There is no surprise in the fact that she continually bashes Dion (who wrote thw Clarity Bill) in her columns. What else would anyone expect?
Excuses?
Behind the War Vote Absences-Embassy News
Karen Redman says the nearly 20 Liberal absences from the March 13 Afghan mission vote were permitted, and disputes the idea the vote was one of the session’s most important.
…
But the REAL reason is?
Yet while staff for a number of Liberal parliamentarians gave several reasons their bosses were absent, one Liberal MP confirmed she would have abstained had she been in the House last Thursday night because she could not support a mission extension.
The March 13 vote marked the climax of more than a year of intense debate, arguing and politicking over Canada’s most important foreign policy issue in years.
While the results were a foregone conclusion by the time MPs entered the chamber as the Liberals had said they would support the government motion, the absence of so many Liberals was noticed by many observers, particularly since the party had been sharply divided for months over what position to adopt on an extension.
Where is the Government we are PAYING FOR??? WHERE?
and the Libs want MY carte blanche support? No, I do not think so. It will be based on the candidate and a sound platform.
ABC will be the primary decision.
Dion has had my support because he is a gentleman and a scholar. Apparently, that was not due. He may still pull himself up by his own bootstraps, but I am not lend a helping hand. Consider it a test!
Garth…. Now that Rae and Martha are fully-fledged Liberal MPs, will Dion have to strip Ignatieff of his “Deputy Leader” title ..?!
Iggy is a key element of the NAU/SPP plan – “key element”? How can that be?
I’m not talking about like or disliking Ignatieff – I’m talking about extreme anger here – for which you criticize the CPC supporters/trolls. I’m talking about claims that just aren’t true – Iggy lived in the US for only 4 years and yet you tell him to go home – he is home. The other years away were mostly in England – his former wife is English and his children were born there. He travelled by to Canada regularly. He is NOT American, never gave up his Canadian citizenship. He grew up in Canada and lived here more years than some MP’s of ethnic background.
You can attack his views – but to lie or mislead about him is extreme anger – leave that for the Tories.
Chantal is one of the sharpest pencils in the pack. I may not always agree with her but she’s always worth listening to. She presents herself well enough to allow differences of opinion to afford insightful contrast.
Anyone who hasn’t heard or read her Dalton lecture needs to find a copy.
CPC supporters who claim that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is one of the worst things to ever happen to Canada.
By Markus D. on 03.19.08 10:55 am
I`m not a supporter of our elected federal government period and yet.
Perhaps you`d be kind enough to explain how turning over our democratic rights and freedoms to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers that view justice as a white painting only they can read as good for the country.
It smacks of fascism installed by a PM that studied and supported Marxism and it has already subverted the democratic process on 2 major issues.
btw the worst thing that ever happened to Canada is the intentional creation of 2 million fatherless children. The results are coming in faster now, look at Vancouver, the crime capital, sole custody capital and only second in the country in child support collections.
People cross the street when they see youth coming. Warnings about being alone at night anywhere in the city. Reported crime has dropped to only 1 in 7 and the Charter played a big role in 1987 when the SCoC ruled fathers have no rights.
By Harry S
Now that Rae and Martha are fully-fledged Liberal MPs, will Dion have to strip Ignatieff of his “Deputy Leader” title ..?!
Do you mean ‘have to’ as in ‘must’, if so then the answer is clearly no. There is no reason to think this action would be necessitated by the other night’s bi-elections.
If you mean will he, then, as far as I can tell, the answer is still no. After the leadership conference Mr. Ignatieff had his pick of roles and chose Deputy Leader (smart choice too). I would guess that he will keep this job into a general election.
I take it, Harry, that you are trying to exploit some sort of leadership rift that only you perceive. I know Rae and Ignatieff are on record saying they fully support Dion’s bid to become the next PM of Canada – and I suspect the same goes for MHF.
I would say you are the one who should be worried because your one man show could topple very hard if the rest of the CPC realize that they have voices, and ought to be representing their constituents. I think the CPC at the moment is a pressure cooker that could blow during a general campaign … and what a mess that could be.
“There will never be a Green government, a Green official opposition or likely even Green Party status in the House.”-Garth
With attitudes like that, I will be hard pressed to vote for a Liberal in the next election. Not that I have before, but twice when canvessed by the Liberal candidate, I was told my Green vote was a waste of my vote as they would not win any seats. It must be in the Liberal handbook or something.
Garth, greens never reaching party status? Your election predictions for the last year have been completly wrong, and now you are predicting they will never reach party status? Maybe not in the next election, most likely not in the election after that, but never is quite the insult.
A Green government after the next election is as likely as Stephen Harper caring about the environment. In this imperfect world, those of us desperate to see an effective climate change strategy must make the best choice. — Garth
posted by Garth Turner on 03.18.08
(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…
……………………
Is this the opening salvo against the Dion-May Axis of Accomodation ???
Dion proclaimed that May deserved a seat in the HoCs, and that he would be supporting her Green candidacy in Central Nova.
Are you suggesting that Dion will renege on his pledge to May ??!!
By Rome Burns
Perhaps you`d be kind enough to explain how turning over our democratic rights and freedoms to a handful of unelected unaccountable lawyers that view justice as a white painting only they can read as good for the country.
Fair question, and, for me, that answer can be found in the Liberal Party of Canada’s constitution:
“The Liberal Party of Canada is committed to the view that the dignity of each individual man and woman is the cardinal principle of democratic society and the primary purpose of all political organization and activity in such a society.”
As I see it, human dignity transcends even the democratic process, although with a caveat that in valuing human dignity as such democracy is the logical conclusion. What the Charter of Rights and Freedoms does, again imo, is put these great issues into the hands of those we deem competent to judge them.
To use your metaphor, yes, if the white painting you speak of is human dignity then I do think that some are more qualified to read it and understand it than others. The worry is that if everyone has a say on what constitutes fairness and justice that even greater harms could occur (harms against a human person’s dignity). This is why Harper scraping the court challenges program bothered me so much.
That said, I would like to point out that the CPC constitution speaks nothing about human dignity, but rather finds its justification in an individuals rights and responsibilities, which are important to be sure, but without anything deeper it is hard to know what these rights and responsibilities should be based upon.
Good question, and that is just my take on it.
Markus:
The list of people who disagree with Canada’s current Charter of Rights is not limited to conservative party supporters. Generally anyone who has read and understands the charter disagrees with it on some level. I know a number of academics from all corners of political belief (including ardent Trudeau fans) who find fault in the chart. Opposition to the charter certainly does no mean opposition to multiculturalism or individual rights. Instead one can be opposed to the charter, as I and many other am, on the grounds that it was a rushed and incomplete document; that at best is a political compromise on a principle that is too important be compromised on, and at worst is the ego driven project of a person attempting to secure his legacy. Either way the charter is a flawed document which has created more problems than it has solved. I would hope that every Canadian can agree that formal and legal recognition of our individual, and collective, rights is not something that should be rushed or compromised.
By Resident on 03.19.08 8:57 am
Vancouver, Burnaby and New Westminster are having spring break this week. In Alberta spring break will be after Easter. Hope this helps.
By Brian Dondo on 03.19.08 12:04 pm
Agreed.
I don’t always agree with what she says, but I always find her very interesting. She is really good at explaining why she has come to whatever particular conclusion she is arguing.
Mind you, there’s plenty to indicate the move to the Green was very much out of the NDP camp.
By Resident on 03.19.08 8:39 am
Would that be the pot calling the kettle…..get real!
By Realist
The list of people who disagree with Canada’s current Charter of Rights is not limited to conservative party supporters.
Fair enough. I didn’t want to generalize, and I did …
As to the details of the document. You make some interesting points. I should take the time to read the whole thing to see for myself.
As I have said before, there is an inchoate groundswell growing in Canada – and no political party extant today is articulating its core values.
The results of the by-elections show this – most voters voted ‘none-of-the-above’ with their feet by staying away from the polls in droves.
The conservatives are articulating a vision – it it resonates a little better outside the big cities than inside, but it isn’t grabbing enough – they have too big an image of being just another group who want to line their own pockets from the treasury.
The greens have a vision also – their image still has some pretty hard edges and shadows of the kooky past though, so it doesn’t grab enough people.
The liberals have a real image problem – they’re sort of like a K-car – the idea isn’t too bad, but it isn’t all that well put together, and about the time you’ve got it paid for it’s gonna fall apart. And there’s still the nagging suspicion that they just might line their own pockets from the treasury if they get the chance.
The socialists are really having an image problem – they sort of remind you of the guy who knows the theory behind making a 3 ball combo on the pool table, but can’t put it into practice.
So, whatever group can catch that groundswell will grab onto power and hold it for a very long time – I don’t know who that group is, but I know it isn;t ANY of the present crop of contenders.
By slg on 03.19.08 11:44 am
Home is where the heart is! Where is Iggy’s? Enough of your defending Mr. Arrogance. the man is not trustworthy…PERIOD! There, that is the bottom line.
Now that Rae and Martha are fully-fledged Liberal MPs, will Dion have to strip Ignatieff of his “Deputy Leader” title ..?!
By Harry S on 03.19.08 11:39 am
THAT is the real question!
those of us desperate to see an effective climate change strategy must make the best choice. — Garth
I`m with you there Garth but I fail to see how carbon credits will reduce GHG.
Without an in depth explanation along with computation I fail to see that as a choice.
and take the boot off MacKay’s neck?
get serious
Realizing that a watchful swapping zingers would do both parties some good and piss off Harper in the process.
The current Conservative messaging is that Canada is for sale to foreigners at the expense of Canadian sovereignty and our treasury, by allowing them to write off the debt interest, and Canadians are too stupid to be any wiser.
That is literally the Conservative message in a nutshell.
If Canadians wish to vote for that, they obviously are pretty stupid!
No lesser figure than Calgary MP Art Hanger is in open revolt against his government’s ideological drift toward approving the sale.
“This is space-age technology we’re talking about here,” Mr. Hanger fumed recently. “I don’t know how you can give that away. It doesn’t make any sense.”
Atta boy Art. So where’s the rest of your Conservative caucus in the stamp-and-holler protesting department?
The lineup of expert space-industry witnesses at a recent parliamentary committee were of unanimous opinion. This is all bad news for Canadian space interests and a dandy deal for MDA shareholders.
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Presented by
Time to ground space firm’s sale
Purchase by U.S. interests good for shareholders, bad for Canadians
Don Martin, National Post Published: Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Nasa Tv, Reuters
OTTAWA -It’s been 50 years since the almost mythical Avro Arrow supersonic jet fighter was scrubbed and scrapped, a sacrificed $400-million government investment that lingers still as a defining blow to Canada’s patriotic pride. We never learn.
In a matter of days, the Conservative government is scheduled to rule on the sale of Canada’s world-class satellite builder to American interests, selling $430-million worth of taxpayer investment south of the border for a $1.3-billion shareholder payday.
In the lofty dare-to-dream department, the MacDonald Dettwiler and Associates (MDA) sale to Alliant Techsystems ranks as a far greater sin than killing off a jet of questionable economics, even one allegedly superior enough to offend American aviation sensitivities at the height of the Cold War.
This company’s heavily subsidized satellite technology was designed specifically to assert Northern sovereignty, assess global warming’s impact on our crops, measure sea-ice thickness and even spot submarines in shallow water.
And that’s just the state-of-the-art 2,200-kilogram RADARSAT 2 satellite built and launched by MDA only three months ago, now orbiting overhead every 101 minutes with a camera eye that can see through clouds and photograph an object just three metres long.
Then there’s the MDA-built Dextre, the two-armed robot activated yesterday as Canada’s latest and greatest contribution to the International Space Station, which had Industry Minister Jim Prentice gushing in a news release about the “ingenuity and innovation which have made Canada a space-robotics leader.”
The public investment in that mission justified Mr. Prentice (along with MDA officials and Alliant’s new lobbyist) visiting Cape Canaveral last week to witness the space shuttle Endeavour blast off with Dextre as its most precious cargo.
So there you have it. Canada’s niche as the leader of outer-worldly robotics sits on display atop the planet’s most glamorous platform — sale to America pending.
Mr. Prentice’s flacks won’t say for sure if the investment review decision will meet the deadline this Saturday, but there are 430 million reasons (one for every tax dollar) why Canada has the right to say “no.”
No lesser figure than Calgary MP Art Hanger is in open revolt against his government’s ideological drift toward approving the sale.
“This is space-age technology we’re talking about here,” Mr. Hanger fumed recently. “I don’t know how you can give that away. It doesn’t make any sense.”
Atta boy Art. So where’s the rest of your Conservative caucus in the stamp-and-holler protesting department?
The lineup of expert space-industry witnesses at a recent parliamentary committee were of unanimous opinion. This is all bad news for Canadian space interests and a dandy deal for MDA shareholders.
There were plenty of questions, but missing from the discussion table were representatives of either MDA (although they were sitting in the committee room) or Alliant Techsystems who might have provided the answers. So much for any accountability for our tax investments in a company potentially boasting a billion-dollar balance sheet.
If this sale goes through, the Canadian Space Agency could not reassure the committee that the government would retain the RADARSAT 2 licence.
It doesn’t know if Canada will maintain control over the camera shutter. It’s unsure if the notoriously protective U.S. government would allow Canada to take aim at desired targets without violating finicky American international arms regulations.
Liberal MP Scott Brison suggests that America’s refusal to recognize Canada’s claim over the Northwest Passage could be bolstered if RADARSAT 2 is no longer a Canadian eye in the sky over shipping traffic.
“If this is sold to the Americans, will the technology that Canadian taxpayers paid for be used by the Americans against us in a dispute to attack our northern sovereignty? It’s highly perverse, but possible,” Mr. Brison understates.
MDA has risen to become a global leader in satellite surveillance and space robotics on the backs of Canadian taxpayers.
While there’s cause to sympathize with company shareholders, who eagerly embraced the sale by a 100-to-one margin, too many questions remain lost in space to raise our comfort level with this technology transfer.
Without those answers, Canada’s satellite fire sale should be grounded.
dmartin@nationalpost.com
Copyright © 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
By Rome Burns on 03.19.08 11:15 am
Sorry I shocked you, but I was being sincere and honest. The current FPTP system that sends morons to represent intelligent Canadians is NOT working. Oh, there are a few, but the overall results is like I said regarding 100 monkeys.
I guess my choice becomes whether I would rather drive 2.5 hours to Queen’s Park or 6-7 hours to Ottawa? LOL
Personally, I hope the internet advances more rapidily in the area of smell transmission because then I can enjoy emailing these Bozos with this and saying this to them!
[...] words of Garth “Master of the Universe” Turner. Did it ever occur to Mr. Turner that these [...]
By Rome Burns on 03.19.08 11:15 am
Hey, I have an idea. How about all comments, interviews, etc., must take place on a track while running?
That will include that overstuffed big mouth Duffy, Harper, and the rest of these ready for market hogs of our public money!
By Realist on 03.19.08 12:27 pm
I agree. The charter and the constitution are deeply flawed, and was implemented because of the ego of one man. The whole “Notwithstanding” clause is insane. The fact that one of the provinces is not signatory is a huge issue.
The divisiveness fostered by that document continues to haunt us to this day. Indeed, any time someone mentions holding constitutional talks to address issues causes the hyperbolic pressures to go right off the scale.
Geez, we can’t even talk about talking about the damn thing without causing apoplexy.
And really, the final decision belongs to nine appointed individuals?
Boy this CTV ” CON TELEVISION ” isn’t getting more and more bias. What a loaded question that todays question is. Ahother trick way of either you support them or you are against the Government. http://www.ctv.ca/
Judy said:
John G.: Do you even follow Chantel Hiebert’s columns? She is so anti-Liberal and Bloc. All of her columns knock Dion and prop up Harper.
You must enhance your critical reading skills if you are to be plausible in your quotes.”
Maybe Hebert is impartial, the problem is Dion, that sucks big time
Good question, and that is just my take on it.
By Markus D. on 03.19.08 12:27 pm
The white painting is justice itself and it`s not my metaphor, it`s how a SCoC Justice described how the decisions are made. No I don`t think a handful of lawyers is competent to decide what our rights and freedoms are, that`s up to the people as in democracy.
The Liberals talk a good line but where is the action on their started root of crime which is sole custody?
The court challenges was an abject failure. There are millions of children that are denied their rights as promised by a Liberal government to the UN. I don`t see their case before the courts. Fathers have no rights, I don`t see their case before the courts. Child support used as a tax on a selected group of individuals, again by passing our democratic principles instead of for the children, I don`t see their case before the courts.
To put this much power in a handful of people that are even father above the law that the elite is a very dangerous thing, it`s called fascism.
Thanks for your take on it.
As you can see there`s more to this than alluding the CPC are out to end democracy when the Liberals already have. Perhaps the CPC is trying to restore it, just a guess mind you.
For fans of Harper’s strategic genius, Paul Wells has a reminder on to-day’s Fifth Anniversary of the start of Iraq II:
“Canada remains alienated from its allies, shut out of the reconstruction process to some degree, unable to influence events. There is no upside to the position Canada took.”
— Stephen Harper, Maclean’s, Aug. 25, 2003
http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=pos&eid=43
EARTH TO JOHN G
You can’t be serious and hold that fairy tale dear to your heart.
That little story that you copied and pasted for our reading pleasure actually needs a reality check and I’ll use a MAJOR CURRENT EVENT (not a tall tale)to make my point.
As you may well know, the US Fed has been bailing out the New York banks for quite some time now.
Now picture this, all the capitalist in that industry and others for that matter truly believe that Gov’t has no place in their business. It’s their firm belief that the free markets are capable of taking care of itself, and so it should. However, it turns out that those greedy little bankers, brokers and fund traders ONLY want the gov’t to leave them alone when things are going well. But when times turn for the worse , they cry like little babies running to their mothers to make things all right again. And we’re taking about some of the biggest banks in the world.
I’m not here to debate the reasons why the Fed is bailing out these bankers, they are doing just that and wouldn’t you say that this isn’t any different that helping someone with their GPA?
You need to widen your vision and become more of a free thinker and when you do , a weight will be lifted from your shoulders and you will have become a LIBERAL.
RONOLD
Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 12:50 pm
Ok, time to shock you back.
I have a great deal of respect for the majority of our elected officials. It`s the system that won`t work regardless of how is in chambers.
I wouldn`t hesitate to support most as nominated reps of our provinces as the people to get the work done for Cdns.
Now that Rae and Martha are fully-fledged Liberal MPs, will Dion have to strip Ignatieff of his “Deputy Leader” title ..?!
By Harry S on 03.19.08 11:39 am
THAT is the real question!
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 12:42 pm
Mr. Ignatieff had his pick of roles and chose Deputy Leader (smart choice too). I would guess that he will keep this job into a general election.
By Markus D. on 03.19.08 12:11 pm
………………………………………..
Bill-Muskoka meet Markus D … Markus D meet Bill-Muskoka .
Personally, what I can’t understand is Bob Rae winning in Ontario after what his party did to the province when he was the premier – voters in Toronto have very short memories!
By David – Ontario on 03.18.08 9:59 pm
Well said, Flaherty, Baird, Clement! Think Ontario voters have forgotten about what they did to Ontario?
If you truly care about this issue, you will stop being dogmatic. Helps nothing. — Garth
I have the impression you are fairly dogmatic yourself, Garth. Never much latitude in your pronouncements, it seems.
I think I’d prefer run-offs to proportional representation. If I lived next door to a bunch of barley farmers I might be pretty ticked about getting their surplus votes rammed down my throat.
Elections are expensive but the lion’s share of the costs are actually up front. An extra round and in come cases couple rounds of voting would be worth it.
Hell, even tossing in 10 grand apiece (and none of their own) from the public purse to the ones left in the running(the next week?) to campaign with would be a drop in the bucket compared to what we’re paying already.
As Dion keeps adding party outsiders and party hoppers as new “stars” how do those true long time Liberals on the benches feel about being shunted aside; including Mr. Turner who , I think, would consider himself a star but is now being downplayed by his own new Liberal party as a colourful maverick.
No matter what differences I may have with socialists which includes liberals and dippers it is really a sad thing that long serving caucus members are being treated so shabbily. It must hurt.
Zorph, get on that!
And can those guys please please RETIRE?
By Molly on 03.19.08 10:58 am
“Really when you think about it, Toronto is not Canada.”
And the award for outstanding achievement in the field of bigotry goes to: Harry S
Congrats Harry.
“(d) Canadians in four ridings ought to have their little backsides twaddled. Bad voters. Use it or lose it.”
Again, Garth, the Public-Party-Politician interface is really broken. I’m guilty for not coming out and voting.
The prospect of explaining to an elections canada volunteer what “I reject this ballot” means didn’t appeal to me.
Be careful what you sue for
BRIAN FLEMMING
Halifax lawyer and Q.C.
March 19, 2008
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has much to be proud about. Five years ago, few would have predicted he would weld the warring wings of Canadian conservatism and deliver a government that has successfully survived for more than two years.
Despite that success, Canadians continue to be puzzled by Mr. Harper’s apparent desire to control every jot and tittle of the political agenda. As of last week, Canadians must now question Mr. Harper’s belief in how far Canada’s freedom of speech extends.
The libel suit Mr. Harper personally launched against the Liberal Party of Canada (for publishing on its website stories that said he knew of bribes being offered to an independent MP, the late Chuck Cadman) is unprecedented, a first for any sitting Canadian prime minister. As such, the suit shines a spotlight on freedom of speech and the country’s press freedoms. A Harper victory would not improve the state of those freedoms.
A few centuries ago, seditious libel statutes protected British aristocrats from “libellous” criticism by the plebs. When responsible government came 250 years ago to what is now Canada, the ruling family compacts in Upper Canada and Nova Scotia tried to extend those laws to themselves.
Joseph Howe was famously charged in 1835 with criminal libel for daring to criticize Nova Scotia’s governing politicians. Howe’s court victory is generally regarded as the cornerstone of the press freedoms that are enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
In the 173 years since, libel laws around the common law world have evolved toward prohibiting the use of libel law either to intimidate political opponents or to chill debate on a particular political subject. Canada has lagged in this evolution. Certainly Mr. Harper’s suit would fail in the United States, and probably in Australia, New Zealand and Britain too.
I was once a pupil of Sir Colin Duncan, one of Britain’s foremost libel lawyers in the 1960s. On my first day in his Middle Temple chambers, he told me two things: First, any libel suit squarely puts in play the reputation of the plaintiff (in this case, Mr. Harper). If a potential plaintiff was not squeaky clean, that person should think twice about putting his reputation on the line. (Remember how then prime minister Paul Martin threatened to sue Mr. Harper in 2006 when Mr. Harper said the Liberal Party engaged in “organized crime”? Mr. Martin wisely backed away from that threat.) Second, Sir Colin said, truth is the most powerful defence. If there was the slightest chance a potential plaintiff’s complaints were tainted, or partly true, disaster lay ahead.
We discovered this in the case of Dering v. Uris, a libel suit brought by our client, a Polish doctor named Wladislaw Dering, against Leon Uris, who wrote the best-selling book, Exodus, in which Mr. Uris claimed Dr. Dering carried out thousands of gruesome ovary removals from Jewish women who’d previously been irradiated. Most died.
During the trial – which Mr. Uris immortalized in another book, QBVII – many women who’d survived testified against our client. But because the defence could not prove the truth of each and every death that Mr. Uris had claimed, Dr. Dering won his suit. However, his victory was pyrrhic, as the judge awarded costs – including defence costs of what would be $1-million today – against the plaintiff.
A risk for Mr. Harper is that the court may extend, as courts have done in other jurisdictions, the defence of “qualified privilege,” and base the decision on a wider view of the public interest. Another risk is that Canadian Internet libel law may be updated to bring it more in line with other, more liberal, jurisdictions.
The most troubling feature of this case has been the silence of the lambs on editorial and op-ed pages. Is no one troubled by the implications of this suit for Canada’s freedom of speech laws? Or will someone drag our Jurassic libel laws into the public arena? The ghost of Joe Howe is watching.
John G:
“Thanks to Charles Adler for posting this on his website”
Straw-man argument – a favourite tactic of neo-cons: oversimplifying an opponent’s argument, then attacking the simplified version.
“(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…”
Surely not, in view of this…
Wildsweetorange:
“I voted Green in Vancouver Quadra because I thought I could afford to, but in the general election, I’ll vote Liberal. In our first-past-the-post system, one should vote against their least-favored option so as not to aid them.”
That’s the strategy that Dion and May need to make clear to voters in the next federal election.
By Rob on 03.19.08 12:58 pm
You wouldn’t by any chance be a CPC supporter? LOL….
Oh, oh, you’ve riled the Green Ass-asin Brigade
http://greenassassinbrigade.blogspot.com
Speaking of Iraq, I finally got to watch ‘Why we Fight’, a documentary which won a prize at the Sundance Festival.
You can see it here:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=3405669348838274375&total=100&start=50&num=10&so=0&type=t100_can&plindex=58
1 hour 38 minutes, but well worth the time.
It seems to me that you really shouldn’t criticize the electorate for not coming out to vote when the Liberals continue to abstain in the House of Commons.
There is a reason we have a border with the U.S. It is to preserve Canada’s way of life and maintain our sovereignty, or has that become ‘globalized’ too?
I, and the other million plus former Americans, moved here for a reason…to live in a country we could respect, whose government cares about the people, and who’s primary product is NOT war and aggression as an Imperial Empire.
Funny how those used to be American values as well?
Wait until after the upcoming election there and watch America start regaining the values we still hold, at least most of us do.
I AM Canadian! And darn proud of it!
Ah yes, new parties have no hope in Canada. That is what was said of the Reform party back in the 80’s, the NDP back in 60’s, the Bloc in the 90’s. Don’t waste your vote – vote for the lesser of two evils.
Uh huh. Right. I’m a person who has never voted Liberal and has yet to see a reason to believe that the party that slashed health care in the 90’s and adopted many Reform Party goals would now ready to adopt Green Party ones if the Green Party wasn’t viewed as a threat to take 10%+ of the vote next election.
An old political rule – whichever way the wind blows the Liberals lean. If the CPC was the only other party then the Liberals would be just barely to the left of them. If the NDP was doing well we’d be seeing Liberal policies just barely to the right of them.
If you want your vote to actually cause change then vote for the party that stands for what you support. Voting for the lesser of two evils just locks in evil. See the US system for proof.
Rome Burns on 03.19.08 1:05 pm,
Remember that the system you advocate would be another step away from the voter. It reminds me of the traditional fear of democracy that governed the actions of both the Founding Fathers in the U.S. and the Fathers of Confederation.
That is the problem with this form of traditional elitism. The whole concept of global governance that Paul Martin has been advocating is a global version of the same system which takes government further away from the people and places in the hands of an appointed world government.
Unlike you and Bill I do not see the problem being democratic control over who represents us but how the democratic elements within our system have been subverted by those private clubs that are leader driven, disciplined political parties.
BY ED BROOKS ON 03.19.08 10:42 AM
“That being said, I do not understand what has happened to my Conservative Party, because this party lead by Stephen Harper is not it.” -Ed Brooks
Thank God! That party you knew and loved had 12 seats and faced total elimination from Canadian politics. All Mr Harper has done is rebuild the party, win an election, and drive the opposition crazy!
As for Cadman, I suspect Mr Harper will take whatever money is left in the Liberal coffers for slander…
As for the GTA, this has been and always will be Liberal/NDP voting. No shock or surprise there.
Nothing will change that ever!
I said 2 years ago that Stephen Harper will be remembered as one of Canada’s greatest PM’s…nothing has changed my mind yet…..
By Resident on 03.19.08 8:39 am
Once again, it needs to spelt out for the CPC trolls.
If you want a Green plan, at least in the near term before we’re so far behind we’ll never catch up, voting for the Green Party will ensure that Harper and Baird and their merry band of climate change deniers will continue paying lip service to the environment.
If the Libs form government will they follow through with a green plan that actually will accomplish anything in a timely manner? I don’t know. But you can guarantee with this current government, it just won’t happen.
Bob Rae’s fiscal spending saved Ontario’s ass and Canada’s in the process by propping up the provincial economy an average of 3% real growth a year over each of his 5 years in office.
80% of the debt his administration incurred would have been lost to negative verses positive growth in the final year’s GDP anyways and that’s just on year, not cumulative. Rae’s case is one of actually well-placed and well-timed Keynesianism. If anything he pulled up a year early, but that’s politics for you.
Should there be a spring election my advise to Joan Beatty would be to work hard solidify your base and beat the tory in the general election thereby making him a two month wonder. To Mr Dion go west young man but don’t forget the east, the maritimes are solidly behind you. When you come to PEI bring Gerrard and Martha with you we will be happy to meet them again.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/347865
A clip:
“Just under 10 per cent of sampled pork chops and ground pork recently purchased in four provinces tested positive for methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus or MRSA, lead researcher Dr. Scott Weese reported Wednesday in a presentation to the International Conference on Emerging Infectious Diseases in Atlanta.”
The implications of MRSA coming into the food supply has its obvious implications and could explain why cases of MRSA are showing up in patients who have a low history of antibiotic use. The question the federal government as well as the public should be asking is this.
Are we ready, prepared or the least bit organized to regulate antibiotics used by meat producers? Are we ready to regulate hospitals on a federal level concerning health and safety guidelines with superbugs and other infectious diseases?
Something tells me that we are far from prepared when it comes to a Harper government that has a clear distaste for science unless it can be sold.
Dream on. Offering an uncontested nomination to a well-endowed riding ($54K transfered from their own War Chest in ‘06) and a loan to go with it is a bribe. Being in civil court, the Liberals don’t have to establish exactly who, where and when. Its over before it starts.
Harper’s just using Conservative money to hide under a rock. He got caught crossing the line and he knows it.
Does the ‘bad voters/use it or lose it’ comment extend to yourself, Garth, or the dozens of Grit MPs who keep playing hooky when a big vote comes around?
‘I don’t like the bill but I don’t want an election either, so I won’t vote’ — how is that a better argument than ‘I don’t like the Tory candidate or the Liberal, but they’re the only ones that can win, so I won’t vote’?
Show some spine and turn up to vote, even if it’s just you sitting on the Liberal benches when the roll call comes. I’m sure that your constituents were expecting that you’d actually vote on the important business of the House & the Government every now and then. I’m not an MP, but you are and this is part of your job.
Oh, I’ve been there, avoding Stephen Harper’s desperate attempts to force an election before the economy unravels. Stay tuned. — Garth
Remember that the system you advocate would be another step away from the voter.
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 2:17 pm
Odd you should look at it that way CB. Municipal government are very close to the voter. Provincial is certainly a large step away while an elected federal government might as well be on another planet, lol, wait a minute, I think they are.
The other thing I find odd. You have submitted an obviously flawed summations as to how close the feds are to the voter as a defense of the system. Are you the only one in Canada that thinks after decades of failure that this system can work.
What I propose is to have the provincial governments nominate 12 people, opposition 3, labour 3, corporate business 2, small business 2 while municipalities have 6. There are a few other groups that would have 1 such as environmentalists, poverty representatives and school boards. (numbers open for debate)
No Parliamentary privilege and all nominees must cancel membership or associate with any political party, take part in fund raising or photo ops. Much like our diplomats should be doing.
Let them try and promote their personal agenda and the`ll be gone faster than western Canada if reform isn`t forthcoming.
Perhaps you should have another look at voter turnouts, I`m with the largest block of voters, the non-voter as we already know wasting more time and money on a completely disfunctional system.
There`s a lot more but that`s the gist of it that you should consider.
None the less I`ve made my proposal, what`s yours?
“(c) The gloves are off between Stephane Dion and Elizabeth May. Seemed like a good idea at the time…”
So is Stephane Dion running a Liberal candidate against Elizabeth May? Or will he continue to subvert democracy?
By Catherine on 03.19.08 4:28 am
You tell us Catherine since you seem to know everything.
I’ll bet your really a coward at heart. Brave as old hell on the keyboard, timid & hiding in public. Harry fits that discription also. All talk & no action.
Cheers
Why the courts are their own, and our, worst enemy.
Canada could have had Martin freed in hours: Mexican official
Read this analysis carefully…very carefully.
The initial failure by the consulate to properly represent Brenda Martin was followed by a series of blunders by Mexico’s attorney general’s department, and a succession of inept and corrupt Mexican defence lawyers.
The result is a legal mess so tangled that the only quick way out of prison for Martin is through a presidential decree, or if she pleads guilty to a criminal charge and is extradited, said the federal official, who requested anonymity for fear of being fired.
“I don’t think they intentionally want to find her guilty, but her case has been so fouled up that that is now the only ruling they can make in her criminal case,” the official said through a translator.
He said the Mexican government is anxious to rid themselves of Martin and the negative publicity.
“They do not want her in this country one minute more. They (Mexico’s attorney general’s department) want to find her guilty of a criminal charge as quickly as possible and ship her out of the country.
“That has come down from the highest levels (of the attorney general’s department),” said the official, who has access to Martin’s file and to internal department memos.
When Martin was arrested on Feb. 17, 2006, the Mexican authorities were required by law to notify the court and the attorney general’s office, Mexican human-rights officials and the Canadian consulate.
“That was not done and so it was an illegal detention,” the official said. “Had she had a half-decent lawyer, he would have walked in within 72 hours and got her out.”
Mindless morons are everywhere.
Fools are aplenty, wise ones few!
If the Libs form government will they follow through with a green plan that actually will accomplish anything in a timely manner? I don’t know. But you can guarantee with this current government, it just won’t happen.
By James- Chatham on 03.19.08 2:36 pm
and that would surely be based on our experience with past LPC governments, right?
please stop, I’m laughing so much it hurts.
I see you have posted here 189 times, using names such as Chris Ariens, Phil, Phil Woods, Give me a break, and many other aliases. Are you a professional Conservative troll? — Garth
By James- Chatham on 03.19.08 2:36 pm
If the Libs form government will they follow through with a green plan that actually will accomplish anything in a timely manner? I don’t know. But you can guarantee with this current government, it just won’t happen.
………………………………..
James … I know you are naively sincere about your concern about the environment, living next to a stinking ethanol plant in Chatham in the middle of a huge cornfield being sprayed with chemical pesticides.
As far as the Liberals are concerned about the environment, we can feel assured that they will do at least 3 things to satisfy you deep angst, namely:
1. Impose draconian measures to drive down Canadian GHG emission, and in particular the Alberta oil sands to meet our Kyoto targets by 2012 and not 2050 even though Canada only contributes 2% to global GHG emissions. Are you willing to affect the Canadian economy in this way while watching the Americans and Chinese do nothing??
2. Impose a carbon tax on all Alberta oil and gas production, and transfer that tax down to the end user .. you and me. You may be willing, but I sure as hell an not .. and the Alberta government will most certainly object ..!!
3. Dion has already stated that in his March 2007 Balancing our Carbon Budget plan that a Liberal government would enter the international trading market for Kyoto Carbon Credits to mitigate the Liberal-created 33% GHG excess over target. This would mean the purchase of $12 – $25 Billions of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China, India, Russia, others .. and they would be underwritten by the Canadian taxpayer.
James … do you accept sending Billion$$$ to China so that the friends of the Liberal party invested in China will benefit courtesy of the Canadian taxpayer??!!!
Do you need to impose a harsh and authoritarian Liberal environmental plan to salve your querulous angst ???
Oh, I’ve been there, avoding Stephen Harper’s desperate attempts to force an election before the economy unravels. Stay tuned. — Garth
………….
Is this what it’s come down to, Garth … praying for the Canadian economy and housing values to tank so that Canadians will rush to your Liberal cohorts in utter desperation??
First the smut and slag and smear campaign to sow discontent .. and now for Canadians to suffer economic hardship so that your Liberals can crawl back to power under non-leader Dion ..??!!
NFW .. !!!!
Your devious plotting and calumny will be exposed in any next election and you will be ridden out on a rail because Canadians will not be fall for that Liberal song and slime again …!!!
Like I said, desperate. — Garth
I’ve been there, avoding Stephen Harper’s desperate attempts to force an election before the economy unravels. Stay tuned. — Garth
That`s a terrific plan Garth.
Even though you know and we know the economy is going to unravel at break neck speed you`re willing to let it happen to give the Liberals an election advantage.
However I`m not sure enough Cdns will appreciate the good of the LPC over their own crisis to vote Liberal. A lot more Cdns every day are getting fed up with this Liberal first, Cdns in the back of the bus mentality. What really concerns me about this plan, the Liberals don`t even have a plan to get us out of it when it hits the fan.
lol, as Herb says, put us back in power, we`ll tell you the plan at a later date.
economic conditions will force the changes required and it won`t be a change in ad agencies.
Posting number 419. Don’t you guys in Calgary have anything better to do? — Garth
Conservatives Re-announce Liberal Toronto Transit Initiative
March 18, 2008
OTTAWA – The day after crushing electoral defeats in two Ontario by-elections, the Harper government is trying to recover by re-announcing $350 million in Liberal funding for the Toronto Transit Commission, Liberal Cities, Communities and Infrastructure Critic Paul Zed said today.
“This is money that was guaranteed to the City of Toronto in 2004 and delayed by two years by this government,” said Mr. Zed. “The Conservatives clearly have nothing new to offer the citizens of Toronto.”
On March 30th, 2004, Prime Minister Paul Martin announced a $1-billion, five-year investment in the Toronto transit system. The federal government’s $350-million share was to be paid from the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund over five years. The government delayed payment of this commitment for over two years despite being obliged to provide the money. Today, Conservative Cabinet Ministers Jim Flaherty and Lawrence Cannon held a press conference in Toronto to announce delivery of the final payment of this five-year investment.
“The fact is the Conservatives don’t have any new policies that will benefit Canadian cities and communities so they have to re-announce Liberal initiatives in order to make themselves look good,” said Mr. Zed.
Complete details of the 2004 announcement can be found at:
http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/ip-pi/csif-fcis/news-nouvelles/2004/20040330toronto_e.shtml
This tells me that the Harper government are on a vote buying spree again. Sad, Sad, Sad. These jokers have to go ASAP!
Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 3:24 pm
It`s too bad Martin wasn`t arrested in Pakistan. They have our political and justice system and now that the Court Party is back in power the first thing they did was drop corruption charges against Bhutto.
Seems it would be very easy just to drop charges against Martin just so they can get rid of the negative image.
Your comment about the new Saskatchewan MP needing media training lacks cultural sensitivity and some Liberals and NDP would go so far to call it racism.
I just threw up — Garth
By MJH on 03.18.08 9:51 pm
You dare to call Garth a racist ?
Suggest you acquaint yourself with the meaning of racism .
You owe Garth a big apology you blithering idiot .
Oh, I’ve been there, avoding Stephen Harper’s desperate attempts to force an election before the economy unravels. Stay tuned. — Garth
I know you probably can’t understand how callous this sounds to someone outside the Canadian political and economic elite. To me this is the shocking admission that you want the economy to unravel for pure political advantage.
Those of us who are struggling to pay for heat and groceries,while the media and government are bragging about low inflation because the prices of cars and computers have fallen, live in a vastly different world from those of you in the top 5 per cent of Canadian income earners.
A poll done in the U.S. suggests that like us, ordinary Americans (65 per cent) are more concerned about inflation on those items that are necessities and not frills.
And how does Stephen Harper’s election obsession help you, or anyone? — Garth
By Harry S on 03.19.08 3:34 pm
And the party you support has a leader? Cadsam, Naftagate, Income Trusts, Destroying partliamentary committees…
LOL…Harry, you are a joke!
Thank God! That party you knew and loved had 12 seats and faced total elimination from Canadian politics. All Mr Harper has done is rebuild the party, win an election, and drive the opposition crazy!
I really don’t think he won the election as opposed to the Liberals lost it. I think the voters were fed up with the Liberal shenanigans; the Conservative won by default.
Yes, he is driving the opposition crazy, of that, there is no doubt.
But, I truly believe that his approach to governing is truly misguided. He has squandered the opportunity to garner more support from the Canadian public by being draconian and borderline paranoic.
Mr. Harper was given a golden opportunity to begin a new age for the Progressive Conservatives. So far, he has not expanded the brand beyond those already committed. And, in the process, he has virtually abandoned the ‘red’ Tories.
That may be acceptable to you, but I do not believe that it has a future. I don’t think in the long run, Canadians will buy what he is selling.
If those miscreants in the Liberal Party had selected anyone but Dion as a leader, I wager that they would be ahead in the polls.
Posting number 419. Don’t you guys in Calgary have anything better to do? — Garth
Here comes 421.
As an enemy of the state with the status of an escaped convict I`m not allowed anything else.
I`m not allowed to be a father, work, I`m not entitled to the basic health care of most Cdns and I`m continually assaulted with criminal slander which I`m not entitled to address through our justice system. I`ve been threatened with arrest, arrested for no reason, and threatened some more.
I would think the amount of effort it takes just to survive let alone supply your readers with info that our government, you included has been forbidden to talk about would, should be appreciated a little more.
I`m in BC and your welcome
2 million fatherless children
no justice, no investment
LOL, I can’t wait till the next election campaign and listen/read how the Conservatives and their troll patrol will blame the election on the Liberals because they refused to force and election before the shit hit the fan. That should be interesting Harry and Rome. You guys just don’t get how stupid you are making yourselves look with your desperate postings here.
I didn’t realize we had running post counts! Only have about 12..but I read daily
I know everything. — Garth
And how does Stephen Harper’s election obsession help you, or anyone? — Garth
You nailed that one Garth.
Thanks for giving a nominated federal government traction.
economic conditions will make the changes an election can`t
(422)
By Rome Burns on 03.19.08 3:41 pm
As usual, Courts have a huge ego based problem admitting they were WRONG!
Lawyers are even less likely to take such a draconian step.
Did you note the mumbling by the Medical Doctors as to admitting when they have totally SCREWED UP someone’s life by error?
Such fine examples are an inspiration to all of us to be open, honest, and…Oh never mind…that phrase has been sullied to death by Harper anyway!
You are right…the Mexicans should simply dismiss the case, pay her well for the illegal detention, and send her home.
Canada should provide a private jet whereas they screweed up as badly as the Mexican goons they call their Legal System.
Regarding your idea on non-elected MP’s, I want to say this. We could save billions in duplication by making our MPP’s/MLA’s OUR voice. That voice would then be carried to Ottawa by a much smaller group than 308 Bozos all mucking up things with half the knowledge required.
Each Province/Territory would send representation that would come from the elected legislature, and they would serve for ONLY four years. They would be the best each jurisdiction has, informed of the real issues at the local level, and eliminate all this duplication of mindless politicians grasping at issues they have no knowledge to handle.
That, of course, would also mandate eliminating all the BS rules that they curr3ently use to hide under, behind, and in. It would require the reps actually accomplish something.
Afterall, Canada is made up of its people, then the local government, and then the provincial or territorial government. Why do we really need 308 more overpaid people duplicating what should be accomplished at the provincial level?
Just giving serious consideration to how that would actually work and be structured.
Switzerland’s Congress meets for only a few weeks twice year (if I recall correctly) and then they GO HOME! That is the oldest confederation on this planet as well. It works for them, why not us? Oh yeah, I forgot, we have to continue on the out-of-date award system of England from the Colonial Days of the Empire. Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Afterall, why else would we need a House of Lords when there are no Lords left to house?
I live in Vancouver Quadra and I can tell you the real winners were the Green Party. They tripled their vote. They worked their buns off – they could be seen every weekend in Pt. Grey, Kitsilano and Kerrisdale. I never once saw Liberals or Conservatives out on the street campaigning. Elizabeth Coad of the NDP was out there on the street. The Conservatives however spent a fortune on the biggest signs you have ever seen, about 1/20 of the size the Liberals had. They were everywhere but the Conservative candidate was nowhere to be seen. She never showed up for all candidates debates – no meetings whatsoever. Does she exist? but then again no one is surprised that she was muzzled – typical Conservative style.
By Ed Brooks on 03.19.08 3:50 pm
Mr. Harper was given a golden opportunity to begin a new age for the Progressive Conservatives. So far, he has not expanded the brand beyond those already committed. And, in the process, he has virtually abandoned the ‘red’ Tories.
That may be acceptable to you, but I do not believe that it has a future. I don’t think in the long run, Canadians will buy what he is selling.
If those miscreants in the Liberal Party had selected anyone but Dion as a leader, I wager that they would be ahead in the polls.
………………………………
Oh come on, Ed … the PC ‘red’ tories hate Harper and were doing everything possible to destroy him right from the time he and McKay united the ‘right’ .. even joining the Liberal party. Now doesn’t that tell you something about all those new age PCs like Brison, Keith Martin, Garth??
I think Canadians will have to decide in the next election if they want to go back to the still-corrupt Liberal party, or have another minority CPC government that will undoubtedly be brought down after Liberals find their next ‘dream’ leader. So, Ed … who do you see as the Liberal’s next saviour … Rae? .. Iggy? .. who ???
I also have been saying that the Liberals would improve their popularity standing if they got rid of Dion and found a leader NOT from Quebec .. enough is enough ..!!
And how does Stephen Harper’s election obsession help you, or anyone? — Garth
How is the Liberal obsession with the party going to help us, or anyone?
This is the problem with our system. Centralized, discipined, and self-interested private political clubs called parties see the public interest as secondary.
In the interest of political partisanship you have allowed the current government to push forward an agenda that I do not believe is in the best interest of Canada. The longer that agenda is being pursued unopposed the more damage will be done.
I see Harper incrementally getting through the agenda he has been promoting for years and the Liberal Party has either been asleep, is comfortable with the direction, or is not competent. All of the concerns about where a Harper government would take the country are being realized and your party is failing to stop him.
Most of us now realize that there are no checks and balances in the system and the Liberals need to accept responsibility for creating the conditions that have allowed the federal government to become a Prime Ministerial dictatorship.
If you continue to allow him to govern as if he has a majority then there is nothing to stop him.
By Elizabeth on 03.19.08 4:07 pm
Joyce Murray, might have been busy moving to Quadra so that might be why you didn’t see her hitting the streets.
If the Conservatives had such big signs, I am very happy to live in Coquitlam where a municipal by-law restricts the campaign signs to 4′ x 4′. Some parties have tried to put up 4′ x 8′ but they are promptly taken down. I would think that the parties would have some knowledge of local issues such as that. New Westminster can have any sign they please but cross into Coquitlam and there is a different set of by-laws.
Regarding your idea on non-elected MP’s, I want to say this. We could save billions in duplication by making our MPP’s/MLA’s OUR voice
Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 4:06 pm
A huge benefit to a nominated federal government would be an end the decades of partisan politics. This is not something that would be possible if we used MLA or MMP reps. They must be from the general public sent to get the work of the people done through their voices from the elected officials, hired and fired. Further enhancement comes in the form of reps have to cancel political memberships, political correspondence or even discussions.
Frankly Bill I don`t think setting up a nom fed gov is much of a challenge, we already have elected officials at the provincial level involved in federal politics. The larger challenge is the 2 million fatherless children but hey I`m working on it.
(423)
Harper’s premature attackulation ads on Dion, the MOMENT Dion became the leader, were and are, an insult to intelligence…. and proof of how quickly The Con started.
Here in Calgary we wade knee high in oil, while our politicians and businessmen puff about how hard Albertans work (huh? people in other provs don’t work hard??)
As Mel Brooks said in Blazing Saddles, “We’ve got to protect our phony baloney jobs, gentlemen!”.
Thanks SUTHERLAND for that GREAT 4 min. video link! Good one!! Bush & Harp caught in their lies! Love it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br31mdP8-Ug
And thanks for your comments “What exactly are you saying, that a man isn’t capable of changing his outlook ..if that’s the case we should be extremely worried about Harper in power ..his views on his own country are hardly complimentary as outlined in his 1997 CNP speech.
Harper: “First, facts about Canada. Canada is a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.”
And as for the revealing American Tale about ‘Welcome to conservatism!’
How apropos…. let’s point out that when the shoe is on the other foot, that, uh, welfare, harrumph, harrumph, is okay for big business?!!? Here’s my cut & paste:
http://politicalfun.blogspot.com/2008/03/corporate-welfare-bear-stearns-bailout.html
You can read the whole item at the above link or:
The Street on Welfare – By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Never do I want to hear again from my conservative friends about how brilliant capitalists are, how much they deserve their seven-figure salaries and how government should keep its hands off the private economy.
The Wall Street titans have turned into a bunch of welfare clients. They are desperate to be bailed out by government from their own incompetence, and from the deregulatory regime for which they lobbied so hard. They have lost “confidence” in each other, you see, because none of these oh-so-wise captains of the universe have any idea what kinds of devalued securities sit in one another’s portfolios.
Enter the federal government, the institution to which the wealthy are not supposed to pay capital gains or inheritance taxes. Good God, you don’t expect these people to trade in their BMWs for Saturns, do you?
I don’t fault Ben Bernanke, the Fed chairman, for being so interventionist in trying to save the economy. On the contrary, Bernanke deserves credit for ignoring all the extreme free-market bloviation. He doesn’t want the economy to collapse on his watch, so he is willing to violate all the conservatives’ shibboleths about the dangers of government intervention. As a voter once told the legendary political journalist Richard Rovere: “Sometimes you have to forget your principles to do what’s right.”
But if this near meltdown of capitalism doesn’t encourage a lot of people to question the principles they have carried in their heads for the past three decades or so, nothing will.
We had already learned the hard way — in the crash of 1929 and the Depression that followed — that capitalism is quite capable of running off the rails. Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was a response to the failure of the geniuses of finance (and their defenders in the economics profession) to realize what was happening or to fix it in time.
As the economist John Kenneth Galbraith noted of the era leading up to the Depression, “The threat to men of great dignity, privilege and pretense is not from the radicals they revile; it is from accepting their own myth. Exposure to reality remains the nemesis of the great — a little understood thing.”
But in the enthusiasm for deregulation that took root in the late 1970s, flowered in the Reagan era and reached its apogee in the second Bush years, we forgot the lesson that government needs to keep a careful watch on what capitalists do. Of course, some deregulation can be salutary, and the market system is, on balance, a wondrous instrument — when it works.
But the free market is just that: an instrument, not a principle.
In 1996 a Republican senator from Maine, William Cohen told me:
“We have been saying for so long that government is the enemy….
Government is the enemy until you need a friend.”
So now the bailouts begin, and Wall Street usefully might feel a bit of gratitude, perhaps by being willing to have the wealthy foot some of the bill or to acknowledge that while its denizens were getting rich, a lot of Americans were losing jobs and health insurance. I’m waiting.
And, yup, Garth, Conservatives do worry that people will actually see the real world implications of their policies. They have to hide the truth…. they
“Disinform” for as long as they can…. like when Bush won’t let Americans see the consequences of their actions, the same reason they don’t see caskets coming back from Iraq. It’s the fantasy world they have to create for their followers, or people won’t subscribe to the ideology.
The Cons con is well-planned, so their followers minds get a free pass on reality. Conservatives have been conditioned, to inoculate them from the real world truths.
Garth,
My fav documentary is The Corporation. Conservatives should be forced to watch it.
They know not what they say.. OH WAIT! They do.. which is far worse.
My turn to vomit.
Garth has some good web analytics on his site.
Good to see.
I’m not at all impressed by Flaherty’s Ontario bashing.
Worse, I don’t see what cutting the corporate tax rate would do…it’s not as though I’m not incorporating because the tax rate is too high.
I’m not incorporating because I’d end up getting taxed at a higher rate, and incorporation isn’t what it used to be. You used to get legal protection through an incorporation. You’re really not as a protected as you might think when you’re the chairman and CEO of your own corporation.
Flaherty’s buck passing on the economy is just sad and scary. Anybody with a 3.0 GPA Economics degree knows it.
Speaking of Brenda Martin – the Liberal candidate in my area (former MP Paul Macklin) has set up a fund to raise money for Ms. Martin to get her a competent trial lawyer since “May 2007″. He again brought the attention to the local press in August 2007. My MP is Rick Norlock and he hasn’t done diddley about the situation until the last week or so when pressure from the papers and the people mounted up. Hence, he stood in the House announcing he had discussed the situation with Harper “last night” – he would be referring to just about a week ago.
He’s now going to Mexico with Jason Kenney (photo-op session) to see her.
As Mr. Washburn wrote a terrific letter to the editor of my local paper from Robert Washburn, Prof at Loyalist College in Belleville and when I can some how get it I will get it to you folks – it explains the extreme partisanship of Mr. Norlock and this partisanship has been talked about in other papers in my riding. You see, Trenton is in my riding. Mr. Norlock has plenty of time to do photo-ops in Trenton with the soldiers, but failed miserably at dealing with Brenda Martin’s dilemma.
As Prof. Washburn put it – “There is meanness in the Tories and it comes from Paranoia. The Conservatives are so used to being in opposition it appears they don’t know how to govern. When you govern and you have true power, you don’t need to claw and scratch every time.”
He has set out the nasty partisanship of Mr. Norlock and includes Flaherty. It is so well written and really shows what is happening with Brenda Martin.
Hopefully, I will be able to pull it up for you to read.
Harper makes a bonehead move in recognizing Kosovo, and nobody cares. I know Dion likes it, but that certainly does not make it right.
Garth, why are you silent?
Not my issue. — Garth
Most of us now realize that there are no checks and balances in the system and the Liberals need to accept responsibility for creating the conditions that have allowed the federal government to become a Prime Ministerial dictatorship.
If you continue to allow him to govern as if he has a majority then there is nothing to stop him.
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 4:17 pm
—————–
All in good time C.B. all in good time. The hammer is coming soon and that’s what drives guys like Harry and John G Nuts. They know it’s going to happen, just not on the Conservative time line.
Name one jurisdiction where the common folk are still on March break.
Vancouver
I also have been saying that the Liberals would improve their popularity standing if they got rid of Dion and found a leader NOT from Quebec .. enough is enough ..!!
By Harry S on 03.19.08 4:16 pm
And the Cons would have a majority if they had a leader other than obnoxious, devious Harper….
Stop being one sided Harry, neither one is a leader….one has a communications problem while the other has no ethics!
Well, well, it seems we have all been treated like mushrooms, again, by the MSM and the Harper goobernment?
MP Clement flip-flops on death penalty voting decision
The motion was introduced by Liberal MP Irwin Cotler, and called on the government to “stand consistently against the death penalty, as a matter of principle, both in Canada and around the world.”
The motion received overwhelming support, including the approval of 96 Conservative MPs, and passed in a 255-17 vote. While many of those opposed to the motion were former Reform Party members, one of the dissenting votes was from local representative Tony Clement.
“I had to make a judgment call based on what I thought my constituents would expect of me . . . and I tried to vote my conscience. That’s what I was elected to do and I hope I made the right choice,” said Clement Friday from Winnipeg. “It was too much of a blanket motion. It said under no circumstances ever again in the history of the world should any country administer the death penalty. That’s too broad and too extreme.”
Clement said there are circumstances where the death penalty is warranted.
I will give TTTC credit for at least stating a reason, which is far more than the usual BS we get out of Harperites. I can even agree, but not for the reason he stated, that there are those who are so bloody guilty of cold blooded murder and gencide that to waste money on their worthless ass in an insult to justice and civilization…people like Sodumb Insane, and his entourage of torturous thugs, comes to mind, along with other major political war criminals.
Unfortunately for TTTC, the local media does monitor his every word, and has no inhibition on calling him to account for his actions. Too bad Harper doesn’t have the same standards…Cadman, Mulroney/Schreiber, etc., eh?
And on the by-election front we find Candidates say voters turned away in by-election
PRINCE ALBERT, Sask. — Two candidates in a recent federal by-election held in northern Saskatchewan say some residents were turned away from the polls because they didn’t have proper identification.
Both Rob Clarke, the Conservative who won the Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill riding, and Joan Beatty, the Liberal candidate who placed second, say many potential voters were turned away.
The Liberals won three of four federal by-elections help earlier this week.
The northern Saskatchewan riding was the only one they didn’t take.
Ms. Beatty says the outcome may have been different if hundreds of potential Liberal voters had been given the chance to cast their vote.
Let’s add that to list of investigations this government must be mandated to comply with. Elections Canada is on the case.
Odd, that Garth made no mention of this Bill?
Both parties should ditch their leaders — neither one is to be trusted & both are far too self-serving & arrogant.
I quite like Maxime Bernier & Jim Prentice; they might make good Tory leaders. They’re both capable and have still managed to hold onto some degree of morality. At the moment, I can’t imagine anyone else in the job unless a Premier (or former Premier) were to take a whack at it. Lord or Hamm might be good, but it seems that both have decided to quit politics permanently.
As for the Grits, there are even fewer good choices. Ignatieff, Goodale & Rae are just as arrogant & self-righteous as Stephane Dion and Jack Layton. Kennedy (as well as Rae) are both too left-wing for my taste. Maybe Garth should take a shot at the job when it comes up. He’s also more than a bit self-righteous and arrogant, but he’s still halfways honest and espouses good policies.
Anyone else got any thoughts? I don’t think that either leader is going to be around for more than a couple of years — barring something extraordinary, the PM isn’t going to achieve a majority and Dion isn’t going to reach 24 Sussex at all. Their respective parties are going to lose patience with them both before too long.
March 19, 2008 at 1:00 PM EDT
PRINCE ALBERT, Sask. — Two candidates in a recent federal by-election held in northern Saskatchewan say some residents were turned away from the polls because they didn’t have proper identification.
Both Rob Clarke, the Conservative who won the Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill riding, and Joan Beatty, the Liberal candidate who placed second, say many potential voters were turned away.
The Liberals won three of four federal by-elections help earlier this week.
The northern Saskatchewan riding was the only one they didn’t take.
Ms. Beatty says the outcome may have been different if hundreds of potential Liberal voters had been given the chance to cast their vote.
She says changes to the federal Elections Act last year required voters to prove their identity and address, and that confused some people in more remote communities.
Mr. Clarke ended up with about 48 per cent of the vote, while Ms. Beatty took about 31 per cent.
Elections Canada pegged voter turnout at about 25 per cent.
Hmmm…..
Anyone interested in helping Brenda Martin, please note the following:
Save Brenda Fund Announces Public Rally on Parliament Hill
The Save Brenda Fund announces a public rally to raise public awareness
of the plight of jailed Canadian Brenda Martin. The rally will also help
to continue to bring pressure on the federal government to act on
Brenda’s behalf before it is too late.
Paul Macklin, Save Brenda Fund founder and rally organizer stated:
“No Canadian citizen ever should have to face the nightmare that Brenda
Martin has during the past agonizing two years in a Mexican prison. We
are putting this rally together to continue our efforts to fight for the
release of Brenda Martin and for her safe return her to Canada.
At the rally, we are being joined by several guests, including Brenda’s
mother, Marjorie Bletcher and Brenda’s friend and advocate, Deb
Tieleman.
Brenda is symbolic of our mothers, sisters, daughters or any Canadian
whose fundamental human rights have been violated.
We must act now, because for Brenda, I believe time is running out!”
Rally Location: Parliament Hill Ottawa
When: 2:00pm Saturday March 29th 2008
Help bring Brenda Martin home to Canada by sharing your voice in this
public rally
For More Information Contact:
Paul Macklin (905) 372-2402 or Peter Cleary (613) 769-0978
media@savebrendafund.ca or http://www.savebrendafund.ca
economic conditions will force the changes required and it won`t be a change in ad agencies.
By Rome Burns on 03.19.08 3:35 pm
Hi Rome. Economic conditions are happening very quickly — and quietly — now, mostly of the “unexpected” kind.
Most folk already realize the financial meltdown has been orchestrated by the powers that be — those individuals who work behind the scenes and are above all the elected officials, the ones who consider themselves to be “above the law” and will never be found out.
As a change in ad agencies won’t accomplish anything, except in the name tags of the political parties who change seats, what are your thoughts as to what will eventually happen?
Something major will happen, whether it is this year, next year or whenever. It may be several natural disasters, or more likely, a man-made, pre-planned and well-thought out so-called fiasco.
Whatever IT is, and whenever IT happens, the economy will bear the brunt, and head due south, so I am keen to hear what you think.
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 4:17 pm
So Garth, why don’t you address C.B.’s comments?
Too real? No flowers?
Seems straight up to me. But then again, I’m just an old country boy, born with a hole in the seat of his pants. I never got no university edjumication. There was those complicated little things called War that somehow got in the way. Nasty but necessary little things if you are one of the parties that run the country and understand the use of force.
If those miscreants in the Liberal Party had selected anyone but Dion as a leader, I wager that they would be ahead in the polls.
By Ed Brooks on 03.19.08 3:50 pm
Why do think Garth is so hawkish on an election? Broom Dion and fast. Fortunatly for me the future is bright….who’s gonna beat Harper? Bob Rae? Iggy? The writing was on the wall long ago, that’s why 25 or so Liberals have packed it in….Harper will be around another 5 years….bet on it!
I live in Vancouver Quadra and I can tell you the real winners were the Green Party. They tripled their vote. They worked their buns off – they could be seen every weekend in Pt. Grey, Kitsilano and Kerrisdale. I never once saw Liberals or Conservatives out on the street campaigning. Elizabeth Coad of the NDP was out there on the street. The Conservatives however spent a fortune on the biggest signs you have ever seen, about 1/20 of the size the Liberals had. They were everywhere but the Conservative candidate was nowhere to be seen. She never showed up for all candidates debates – no meetings whatsoever. Does she exist? but then again no one is surprised that she was muzzled – typical Conservative style.
By Elizabeth on 03.19.08 4:07 pm
Wonderful post Elizabeth. Thank you very much for caring.
By Harry S on 03.19.08 3:27 pm
Personally, I love the smell of freshly drying mash!
But:
“1. Impose draconian measures to drive down Canadian GHG emission, and in particular the Alberta oil sands to meet our Kyoto targets by 2012 and not 2050 even though Canada only contributes 2% to global GHG emissions.” Sounds about right since we are only 2% of the world’s economy. As for the US and China, impose duties and tariffs on their products that aren’t manufactured in am enviromentally friendly way. With the US. we can use the same argument the FTC has used on our softwood lumber industry, ” Mr. USA, your way of doing things gives you an unfair advantage!”
“2. Impose a carbon tax on all Alberta oil and gas production, and transfer that tax down to the end user .. you and me. You may be willing, but I sure as hell an not .. and the Alberta government will most certainly object ..!!” How about just stopping the obscene government subsidies to the oil companies that are making $millions for starters? Or even doing proper environmental assessments?
“3. Dion has already stated that in his March 2007 Balancing our Carbon Budget plan that a Liberal government would enter the international trading market for Kyoto Carbon Credits to mitigate the Liberal-created 33% GHG excess over target. This would mean the purchase of $12 – $25 Billions of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China, India, Russia, others .. and they would be underwritten by the Canadian taxpayer.”
How about starting to invest some of that surplus, which Flaherty allocated 100% to debt reduction, on reducing our green house gas emissions now, instead of letting the problem drag on!
“Do you need to impose a harsh and authoritarian Liberal environmental plan to salve your querulous angst ???”
You just have to look at the St Clair and Detroit Rivers to realise that industry will not do anything that will undermine their profits unless they are regulated to do so. Profits are number 1, the environment a distant second.
Spitzer’s “resignation” could become mighty interesting.
http://tinyurl.com/yqe5r6
Bob Rae was elected because he is a brilliant, principled man who will make a great contribution to Parliament. Period.
By TS on 03.19.08 7:41 am
No offence to Bob Rae, but, the Liberals could run a dead gold fish with a Liberal logo tatooed to its fins in that riding and it would win by a landslide.
Bob Rae had one of THE safest seat possible and he could not even motivate his constituents to go out and vote! And it looks like the Liberal party of Canada will be getting less in their $1.75 per voter for their coffers.
By Ed Brooks on 03.19.08 3:50 pm
Mr. Harper was given a golden opportunity to begin a new age for the Progressive Conservatives. So far, he has not expanded the brand beyond those already committed. And, in the process, he has virtually abandoned the ‘red’ Tories.
That may be acceptable to you, but I do not believe that it has a future. I don’t think in the long run, Canadians will buy what he is selling.
If those miscreants in the Liberal Party had selected anyone but Dion as a leader, I wager that they would be ahead in the polls.
………………………………
Oh come on, Ed … the PC ‘red’ tories hate Harper and were doing everything possible to destroy him right from the time he and McKay united the ‘right’ .. even joining the Liberal party. Now doesn’t that tell you something about all those new age PCs like Brison, Keith Martin, Garth??
By Harry S on 03.19.08 4:16 pm
Ed, Harry S is correct but has left out one thing and that is that Harper had no intention of accepting Progressive or “Red Tories” once he became leader.
He wrote in 2003 that “we may lose some of the old ‘conservatives.” He went on to say: “This is not all bad. A more coherent coalition can take strong positions it wouldn’t otherwise be able to take–as the Alliance alone was able to do during the Iraq war.”
Harper identified two types of conservative party: “One type…, mirroring the ‘classical liberal’ parties of the nineteenth century” championing “the freedom of the laissez-faire and secular values and globalism.” The other type he saw as resembling the old “‘classical conservative parties,’ champion the integrity of the community, traditional religious values, and nationalism.”
Harper’s concept of a conservative party is the former and he has characterized himself as a classical liberal except that he believes in hierarchy and autocratic control, which goes back to an earlier form of conservatism that was never really prominant in Canadian conservatism. In fact, he rejected the Canadian brand of progressive conservatism for a more American and British form.
So, am I to understand that the new CPC troll position sums up as:
“The Liberals will be guilty of causing a recession because they should have defeated to the CPC to prevent a recession.”
Is that really the campaign slogan you guys want to run on?
Thanks for that CPC trolls. I’ll remember that one for tomorrow.
What the CPC doesn’t understand is that the pendulum has swung too far one way, in favor of the ultra-rich over the average and poor Canadian. And now, guess what? It’s swinging back the other way. This latest sub-prime hit hasn’t just undermined confidence in the economy, it’s eroded the public’s confidence in the ‘economic elite’.
Recall that everybody from “The National Post” to “The Economist” argued strongly in favor of CEO compensation in the hundreds of millions? Recall that?
In the private sector we trust.
Remember that whole neo-con revolution we’ve had in the US for the past 8 years. The hyper-corportism.
The pendulum is swinging.
The Liberals are just waiting for that tipping point in public opinion.
Wait for it.
Harper makes a bonehead move in recognizing Kosovo, and nobody cares. I know Dion likes it, but that certainly does not make it right.
Garth, why are you silent?
Not my issue. — Garth
By Ted on 03.19.08 5:01 pm
In my opinion the recognition of Kosovo independence is a huge mistake. The only excuse for taking this position was that the allies did it which shows the lack of leadership here in Canada. Over and over it appears we are incapable of taking an independent stand on any issue.
and that would surely be based on our experience with past LPC governments, right?
please stop, I’m laughing so much it hurts.
By really? on 03.19.08 3:25 pm
I guess you take after Mr. Baird who laughs at people in the HoC gallery that disagree with him.
But my observations are based on a CPC opposition that denied climate change and stonewalled Mr. Dion when he was environment minister in Paul Martin’s minority government; on a CPC minority government that has made Canada the laughing stock in the international environmental community by reversing Canada’s position on climate change; by a CPC minority government that put forth a “Clean Air Act” that needed to be rewritten (they never did reintroduce that did they!); by a CPC government that subsidises the Alberta Oil Sands, one of the heaviest GHG emmitters on the planet; by a CPC government that rewrote Canada’s GHG reduction targets based on 2006 levels and then says it will be another 50 years before we meet these targets (too little, too late, taking too long).
So based on this, who is more likely to put forward a plan that will reduce GHG’s, CPC or Liberal? The CPC plan is on the table for all to see. Some plan, it does little to address the problem. The Liberal plan will cost money, and based on that, I suspect they too will not be as aggressive as they say they will be. But I suspect they will put forward a plan that tries to strike a balance.
Municipal and Provincial governments provide the last checks and balances within our system and it is interesting that you would like to change the system to eliminate that role by integrating them into a federal system. Sometimes basing a system solely on monetary considerations can have serious negative consequences.
Flaherty’s buck passing on the economy is just sad and scary. Anybody with a 3.0 GPA Economics degree knows it.
By LoH_Numa on 03.19.08 4:42 pm
Ahh – Dalton McGuinty, our *cough* wonderful premier is only following in the footsteps of his idol, Bob Rae (Buffalo Bob).
If McGuinty truly cared about Ontario’s economy – he would have been already in the Ontario Legistlature with a budget. But, he wanted to have the real long extented vacation – as he is void of any plans.
As CRAP did with the IT’s (censor 18 pages), so the US gov.’t does the same with the Iraq numbers.
So, who came up with THAT strange idea — blacking the pages out — first?
http://tinyurl.com/2xu5es
Your attack on the Greens seems to have provoked a great deal of passion today Gart. I am very impressed by the level of conviction displayed by posters this day, which may well be in response to this. In spite of your attempts to belittle their heart felt sentiments, they have continued to say it the way it is.
God Love em’.
Do you have a problem with that?
Harper will be around another 5 years….bet on it!
By John G on 03.19.08 6:19 pm
Possibly in jail though!
I am keen to hear what you think.
By Charles Oxley on 03.19.08 6:05 pm
Garth et al seems to have little interest in anything other than proving the C`s are worse than the L`s.
CB actually said I was making irrational statements last time I went into detail but I`ll try it one more time.
Our youth are already in revolt. When the parents start losing their houses en masse they will be blaming not a political party but government. 30 million really pissed off Cdns.
I think CB was in denial and now is starting to realize the gravity of the situation.
Government already knows and it`s forbotten to discuss the real issues of which no one in government or msm will break the taboo because the`re all responsible. It was the government that failed, not one PM or one political party and they don`t have a plan or even an idea for a small parachute to slow it down.
Hopefully I`ve gotten enough of the message out to present an option but as I`ve said, the credit card shoe is falling, very little time left before the mob mentality makes it impossible top make the changes required in an orderly fashion. I have my doubts on even a small measure of success so we`ll go into economic meltdown. Hopefully after the mob gets finished raging against government we`ll find enough trusted people to makes the changes before the whole country goes up in smoke, no guarantees. One thing for sure, we can make the changes now, make them in melt mode or make them after the mob gets done. I 100% positive the system we have is done and we won`t spend any more time trying to fix it.
That`s what economic conditions forcing change me.
I`m quite good at these predictions. I`ve been making them since 1999 with very little error which was only on timing, not end results.
Does the timing in relative to economic conditions look favorable for this one?
You just have to look at the St Clair and Detroit Rivers to realise that industry will not do anything that will undermine their profits unless they are regulated to do so. Profits are number 1, the environment a distant second.
By James- Chatham on 03.19.08 6:22 pm
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! Which, with a few exceptions, it is government’s responsibility to force resonsponsibility on corporations regarding proper conduct!
If the government put as much focus on the environment as they have regulating the TSX and such, we would not have environmental problems.
Garth when you said “Canadians in four ridings ought to have their little backsides twaddled. Bad voters. Use it or lose it.”
I just had to say back to you that
Liberal MP’s in 80 plus ridings ought to have their little backsides twaddled for not voting on several issues they championed. Bad MP’s. Use it or lose it
I wish to apologize for not proof reading, I`ve written this so many times even I`m getting tired of reading it.
” I 100%” should be I`m 100%
In the last post “That`s what economic conditions forcing change me.” should end in `mean`.
Municipal and Provincial governments provide the last checks and balances within our system and it is interesting that you would like to change the system to eliminate that role by integrating them into a federal system.
Sometimes basing a system solely on monetary considerations can have serious negative consequences.
By C. B. on 03.19.08 6:45 pm
I think you`ve got a few things about my proposal going in the wrong direction. You said in a previous post moving to a nom fed we would be moving away from the voters, I disagree as voters are closer to local government than federal. Secondly under the current system there are no local checks on fed gov. so by incorporating the local government we would then have checks.
We have a system now that is based purely on monetary considerations and I am not prosing we keep this system.
Gee Catherine: And if Flaherty had had any foresight he would have had a budget planned for 08. Unfortunately his plans to force an election before he had to come up with his third election were thwarted. He said he never planned on delivering a third budget and he was right!!! No foresight, no back-up, no nothing. His lack of planning is evident.
And McGuinty if finally delivering us from Flaherty’s disastrous money handling under Harris/Eves.
And most Ontarians, based on the last election, agree.
CB
I enjoy your commentary and questions, it`s very good to `drill down` into this. If theres a hitch that I havn`t considered it would be great to have it pointed out so please, keep pouring on the coals.
Just finished watching the greatest prime minister in recent Canadian history,PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER.Well spoken,articulate,and professional,unlike the last couple of bumbling buffoons.Stephool and his Dream-whipped team don’t stand a chance.Go back to your school professor,the big boys are playing for keeps.
Too many Kool-Aid cocktails for you, pal. — Garth
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 4:17 pm
“In the interest of political partisanship you have allowed the current government to push forward an agenda that I do not believe is in the best interest of Canada. The longer that agenda is being pursued unopposed the more damage will be done.” – C.B.
Its a oft told theme I’ve heard you repeat over and over again. Whether or not I’m paraphrasing, what I gather from your statement is this. “All Conservative bills passed, pass because of the Liberal abstenance or support and thus, the Conservative governance or lack thereof in this nation is directly the fault of the Liberal party of Canada. Not only are the Liberals responsible for all bad Conservative bills passed in this nation, but the Liberal plan is to profit from the misery of others as their strategy to replace this current Con federal government (which of course, easily extrapolates to, the Liberals are just as bad if not worse than the Cons as they profit off of misery that they themselves, endorse!).”
And I have a major problem with this assessment.
The problem is simple. Canada’s federal voters have to give opposition parties the mandate to oppose the bills and agenda of any governing party. Otherwise, voters are simply wasting their time re-electing the same minority government back into power.
In other words C.B., the determining factor in opposing convervative bills leading to the fall of the Conservative government is not determined by how damaging or bad Convervative bills that pass in parlament will be to this nation… the determining factor to bringing down this government is defined by how much support the leading opposition party has to do it!
So I ask you. I ask all of you.. where is this voters mandate in support of the opposition party to do so? Where is our wonderful support for the leading opposition party to do so, to oppose stinker bills?
CTV’s Conservative channel’s infamous Strategic council “tracking polls” which ask the same voters the same question they did 3 months ago with the same biased results leading to a distorted 11% national Con lead doesn’t help. But even the the honest polsters who aren’t on the Conservative dole like they’ve got there on CTV’s Conservative channel have them at a dead heat neck and neck. So I ask you, C.B… where is the mandate the Liberals have to bring the Conservative government down? Did we see it with by-elections? Hardly.
As much as I’d like to see a change in government myself, I fail to see how blaming its opposition without a mandate to go to the polls to “replace” this current stinker we have now, will help solve anything.
I also fail to see how blaming the opposition for “propping up” this Conservative government will do anything but further erode support for a mandate to do just what is needed, which is to bring this sad excuse for a federal government down!
So while I appreciate and understand your angst with piss poor Conservative bills in most regards, I fail to see how scapegoating other parties for Conservative failings will help pave the way in creating enough of a mandate that is needed to create the change of government this nation clearly needs.
These are not Liberal bills that are damaging this nation but rather, Conservative ones and regardless of the emotions involved with the wonder as to why such stinker bills get passed in minority governments, leading opposition parties need a voter mandate to force an election that will bring an end to it.
Is there a Liberal mandate to force a general election? Polls, even honest polls, have not put the Liberals ahead nationally at any given time over the last 2 years. Do you really think it is wise for the Liberals to force a general election trailing nationally or at a dead heat in the polls?
The reality of it is this, C.B.. An election will be called only when the Liberals believe fully that they can win, and rightfully so. To call an election trailing in the polls, is to waste everyones time, and that means just one thing. Its not up to the Liberals to win, half so much as it is, for the Conservatives to lose.
My advice to you is this. Quit scapegoating one group for another groups misgivings. If you are truly into judgement and like to play the blame game, you can start with the naive, ignorant and selfishly corrupt voter that actually votes for Conseratives and tell them why it is so.
I’d begin with what is wrong with John G’s definition of Conservatism for starters.
By John G on 03.18.08 9:31 pm
The jest of it is simple. Conservatism, self defined by John, as someone who votes almost solely for his or her own self interests, to which I have an oft told bit of advice that is script.
Selfishness? Welcome to the road to self destruction. Selflessness? Same thing. Welcome to the road to self destruction. The only way to avoid self destruction is to think of everyone else including one’s self in the choices that we make.
And who does? John G’s definition of Conservatism clearly does not and just as clearly, this is the core support behind Harpers New Conservative party… panderings to self interests… which is also a major explanation as to why this government is failing so badly (and not often seen for how badly those failings truly are, as the selfish are often completely blind to the damaging consequences to their own decisions/actions. Have you ever seen a Con troll consider others besides themselves or their own selfish agenda?)
The only way one can truly make the best choices in this world (and keep in mind, our choices follow us) is to think of everyone including and especially so, ones self. Is this Conservatism? Is it bloc? Is it the self defined labour party?
Which political party(s) in Canada truly represent all of Canada, all Canadians, not just the selfish ones?
I believe Canadians are smarter than your average and when the time comes, when the time is right, an election will be called and the voters will decide in good time just what members or group of members in parlament fit the bill to govern this nation accordingly. We had some crooked Liberal MP’s who represented themselves above all others in Quebec with all the money they stole with Adscam. I like to call it… John G’s definition of Conservatism. From what I know of historically, David Emerson was the last crooked Liberal MP to go. (the Teresen Gas directorship for shares David was given less than a year after leaving elected office for his direct role as Liberal BC MLA in the sale of BC gas to Teresen reeks corruptly as an all out legal bribe, one of several David Emerson profited from while in office and his CEO appointments were just as scandalous.)
We’ve seen Harpers version of governance and I can easily come up with a big long list of Harper failings, they aren’t hard to find exept to the selfish blind. But its not up to me, C.B.. Its not all up to you either, but to all Canadians who participate in democracy that determine the future of this nations governance and if Canadians are too slow, dullard or corrupt to see through or not support Harpers agenda, I have a full right to hold media and Canadian voters in contempt never mind mandateless opposition parties, MP’s, or some inanimate political brand, for what good it will get me…
In the final analysis, a national failure is a failure that is shared by us all and we’ve been there before. We shared the $330 billion dollars of federal debt Mulroney’s two term majority government cost us. We shared the burden of tax increases and shrunken spending to get fiscal fed budgets uncontrol, selfish, selfless, and humble servants alike. Sadly, voters have forgotten or never did learn how and why history repeats itself. Just as sadly, its not up to Libs to win half so much as it is the Cons to lose, and the worst of it all is that the Cons should have lost already. Canada’s own losses are heavy and growing under Harper at the helm. The Harper list of failures is long, indeed.
Mabye voters like 70 dead Canadians over military ops since Harper, believing they were dying as peacekeepers for almost a full year before honest media had to break it to us over Harpers government. Mabye we like torturers. And we like to burn oil over other energy sources and we like to let the world know they can kiss our ass cause we like money over the health of the worlds shared environment. Mabye we like deficits. And the next Bush war for resources by corporate amerika. Mabye we like cuts in social spending in the face of hard times. And guns and bombs. And decentralized federal powers that only weaken any nation, never mind our own. Mabye we like foreign hostile M & A’s and taxed IT’s. Maybe we like political interference of U.S. elections, and bribes, and manufactured chalk river crisis’s, and billion dollar softwood givaways and muzzled scientists and censoring whatever else we don’t want to hear.
And mabye we’ll even be dumb enough to think we’ll like the consequences of supporting the selfish that cater to the selfish. Or that being selfish is the way to survival simply because we selfish ones believe it to be so. That me first attitude is so supremist, you know… the me first self entitlement that blinds the smartest of fools.
Mabye..
But I somehow highly doubt it.
Has it ever occurred to anyone here that maybe neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives are eager to be in government at the moment? Neither party would admit that but with the economic meltdown picking up speed and neither party with any ideas on how to handle it being in government may not be a very good place to be. It would be far easier to be in opposition.
SLG,
Do you have a scanner attached to your computer? If so, and you have the paper copy of the article, you should be able to scan and save it as a text document, then post that here. Most scanners come with optical character recognition software and have a “Save As Text” option. You might have to do a bit of editing and correction (the OCR will usually screw up a letter here and there) but it sure beats retyping the whole thing. I’ve never heard of Norlock before tonight, but this quote from the article that others have posted here pretty much jives with your description above:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=141501b9-3f3f-4ca7-8fbb-c53fb50d536c&k=41856
By really? on 03.19.08 3:25 pm
I see you have posted here 189 times, using names such as ,u>Chris Ariens, Phil, Phil Woods, Give me a break, and many other aliases. Are you a professional Conservative troll? — Garth
???
Aha..so is this the person who used my name on the blog a couple of months ago?
For the record, I am NOT a Conservative troll. I am a constituent (you can look me up in the Burlington phone book).
I use the name my parents gave me, not an alias. I’ve given my honest opinions and tried to contribute in a constructive way to discussion of the issues which we face as a nation.
I have been nothing but civil in the few discussions I’ve entered on this blog, with those whom I agreed or disagreed.
Just so Garth’s readers know, this “really?” identity is absolutely not associated with me in any way, shape or form.
This is the only reference I’ve seen to Murray’s background, and suggests what happened in Quadra – granted she was a provincial minister when these decisions were made, but it WAS in a Liberal government. It seems that voters might have been expressing their disapproval of her provincial record.
http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewFeature8.cfm?REF=155
The invisible by-election
Vancouver Quadra by-election — lots of candidates to vote against.
by Bill Tieleman
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
“…Joyce Murray is the front running Liberal candidate, a disastrous former BC Liberal cabinet minister responsible for slashing environmental protection and wildlife staff in Premier Gordon Campbell’s first term.
Campbell even eliminated the word “environment” from Murray’s portfolio, making her: “minister of water, land and air protection.”
As WALP minister, it was Murray who ended moratoriums that blocked new salmon fish farms and the hunting of grizzly bears, saw pesticide and waste management regulations watered down and 1,800 ministry jobs cut.
Perhaps as a result, Murray lost in her provincial re-election bid in New Westminster in 2005 and then lost a federal Liberal try in 2006 in New Westminster-Coquitlam. “
It would be far easier to be in opposition.
By C. B. on 03.19.08 8:10 pm
I think you`re letting them off too easy. The L`s have been hollering blue over the budget. In melt mode it won`t do the trick yet the L`s let it pass. I really don`t see most Cdns blaming anyone other than government in general and that would be all governments, even provincial with no party distinction.
Talk to the people in the street, they say `government` when refering to who they think screwed everything up.
Hi Garth,
I was happy to see that Stephane Dion is now saying he is going to strengthen his environmental policies, as a direct result of the efforts our campaign put in Vancouver Quadra.
Once he does that, perhaps he can come out with a stronger vision on strengthening democracy by changing our voting system, ending the war on drugs, protecting animal rights, and pushing Canada to have a much more peaceful foreign policy. Frankly, we are disappointed by the lack of vision and fortitude coming from your party. I hear empathy for the environment from within your ranks, but I have yet to hear any real policy initiatives (such as ‘clearly’ supporting a carbon tax) that would clearly show a change in direction for the government if the Liberals were to become government again.
As the candidate in Vancouver Quadra for the Greens, I’m glad the Conservatives did not win the race, but I’m just as glad that the Liberal Candidate was given nearly no mandate by voters. I was very disappointed by how the Liberals ran their campaign in the riding and some of the tactics they used. It began by the Liberals sending out 40,000 addressed parliamentary letters which reached voters 3 weeks into the race, it continued into the debates by having to listen to the Liberal candidate crow on about how bad Stephen Harper is and then taking not a single strong position on any issue. The entire messaging was based not on issues or policies but on how bad Stephen Harper was. This continued into the final week, when a white piece of paper with newspaper headings accusing Stephen Harper of having ethics issues appeared on every door step… looking very much like something I would expect from the US.
If the Liberals won’t run a positive campaign, showing a distinct vision, then expect to do miserably in a general election. In my riding, 66% of voters did not cast a ballot, so if the Liberals are going to spend their time going after Green voters, they are wasting their time because we all need to be focussed on those who don’t vote and offering a positive vision to attract them back into our democracy.
Our team earned our votes. We spend most of our time on the street, we pulled off our 14% while spending around 1/4 of the legal spending limit, and we focussed on the issues and pushed policy.
From what I heard, many of the voters who supported us are new voters, including the one lady who contacted us to say that this was the first time in 10 years she had a reason to vote.
Thank you for the insight, and your work for Canada. — Garth
By Bill-Muskoka on 03.19.08 7:10 pm
Thanks, Bill.
But to Harry S.
Maybe the St.Clair and Detroit Rivers are a little too far away for you to see. Are you near Niagara Falls, that’s closer to Halton? Then go and have a look at the brown scum that gathers around the docks of the Made O’the Mist dock.
Pure water doesn’t make scum, period!
THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
On by-election night I listen to Mr Gahram who was very clear in both official languages. He then introduced Mr Dion to speak. It was not a pretty sight for a leader of a party. He should have kept it short but the longer he spoke the worse it got. He drew only a polite response. Personally, I thought he should have been at MHF event as he has been promoting women since taking over the party.
Mr Rae is very well spoken but I am not a fan after his stint at running Ontario and taking it to a $11B deficit. In additon, I am not excited when people switch parties. How do you go from an NDP to a Liberal or vice versa. I am happy he is not the party leader. He does not want to be the leader. What Bob Rae is hoping the Liberals get elected and he gets his plum a position in the Senate. This is something he would have never hoped for if he had stayed NDP. Mark my words this will happen.
As I stated earlier the by-elections did not decide anything. An election is a long way off unless the conservatives find a way to trigger their own defeat. I do not think this is possible after setting an election date for 09.
The Liberals have to show canadians what they stand for and not how bad the conservatives are.
For a point of interest. If they are going to complain about Income Trusts then show canadians what they would do if elected to restore them not just saying they will change it from its present form. That could mean anything.
pm
Harper will be around another 5 years….bet on it!
By John G on 03.19.08 6:19 pm
Possibly in jail though!
By pjw on 03.19.08 7:08 pm
Thats funny, but true. Harper is a LIAR and a CHEAT.
Here is a shining example of BUSH style republican tactics.
Candidates say voters turned away in by-election
The Canadian Press
March 19, 2008 at 1:00 PM EDT
PRINCE ALBERT, Sask. — Two candidates in a recent federal by-election held in northern Saskatchewan say some residents were turned away from the polls because they didn’t have proper identification
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080319.wbyelections0319/BNStory/National/home
Mr Turner even is critical of Harper childcare programs that, while no perfect, are at least way more than the Liberals ever did.
By Resident on 03.19.08 8:07 pm
Well another piece of revisionist history. The Liberal plan never had a chance to create any childcare spaces because Harper thought it to expensive and prefered to cancel it. He prefered to give the money directly to parents (and tax it at the same time) under the illusion that they would spend the money on childcare.
As he was told at the time,
1. childcare space don’t miraculously appear unless funded
2. some parents would use the money for childcare, others beer and chips.
So, after 2 years how many childcare spaces has the Harper plan produced?
A big fat doughnut…zero.
No plan can do any worse than that! Not even a Liberal one! Unless, of course, you’re using Flaherty math again.
By brain on 03.19.08 8:05 pm
Brain, it would take me too long to respond to the nonsense you wrote, but to address just one point, selfishness.
Care to make a wager I do more to contribute to the welfare of people in a week than you do in a year? You’re response is silly and immature. Grow up!
Just finished watching the greatest prime minister in recent Canadian history,PRIME MINISTER STEPHEN HARPER.
By Bob R. on 03.19.08 8:01 pm
Define recent.
Recent, the last two year, Harper has been our ONLY Prime Minister. So not only has he been our best PM, but our worst as well.
When it comes to best or worst, we’re too close to the action. I’ll let history, unrevised by CPC, Libs or anyoneelse be the the judge.
But at the moment, he sucks!
Does the timing in relative to economic conditions look favorable for this one?
By Rome Burns on 03.19.08 7:10 pm
Thanks for the response. I haven’t a clue what the answers could be — maybe look at how Switzerland runs their gov’t. and their country — it seems to be an effective form of gov’t. from an outsider’s point of view.
Another possibility is to revert to provinces collecting their own income taxes, being fully responsible for themselves and citizens of said province, help those who cannot help themselves (i.e., eliminate the Feds. completely — keep Ottawa as an overseer, but with no power at all), scrap inter-provincial trade barriers, etc., etc.
In a perverse train of thought, would it be simpler to let the societal system in which we now live, evolve into smaller communities?
We know friends who chose to move away from Kelowna, and instead live in much smaller towns an hour’s or more drive away, and they are a lot happier with their choices.
The financial debacle will be felt for some time to come; most boomers, and certainly old codgers will have finished their lifecycles anyway, so the time to initiate major change will be during the hard times, which is as good a time as any.
By John G on 03.19.08 9:04 pm
Anyone can be a self proclaimed hero on here. Have you noticed?
Just a thought for you. Even hero’s get sick. Sometimes daddy’s money isn’t enough. I have been around the world. Have you?
not beer and chips, bingo and cigarettes,or nevada tickets,
as he is void of any plans.
By Catherine on 03.19.08 6:45 pm
I think you mean “devoid”.
Are you still having trouble with dictionairies, Catherine?
You had better stick to reciting the party line.
as he is void of any plans.
By Catherine on 03.19.08 6:45 pm
I think you mean “devoid”.
Are you still having trouble with dictionaries, Catherine?
You had better stick to reciting the party line.
Charles
“Another possibility is to revert to provinces collecting their own income taxes”
You might be interested to know Ottawa has no legal right to collect income tax or GST but yes there would be a rebalancing and not a difficult one either. I won`t go into detail as working them out so far has just been a hobby, real interest in what we can do isn`t there yet.
“In a perverse train of thought, would it be simpler to let the societal system in which we now live, evolve into smaller communities?”
We are a country of 32M individuals, in total. I kind of like the model we have.
The problem really isn`t what form of governance we have, simply this one is broken beyond repair and even if it were fixable the world has moved so far ahead of it`s useless anyway. Remember the Q I asked last year, what have they done right in the last 40 years, no answers yet.
It`s a good 40 years past it`s best by date so we need to upgrade to stay ahead of the curve globally.
Economic conditions will force the change, pity we can`t do it on a positive note but that`s not my call, it`s the call of the people.
As a Liberal supporter, I want to on record that I did not like Dion forcing his way in Saskatchewan by inserting a woman as the candidate. He dropped way down in my estimation. I am sad the LIberals lost and yet it serves the Liberals right for Dion’s bad decision in my mind.
By Charles Oxley on 03.19.08 9:37 pm
You are onto the correct answer, albeit with this provision, we follow in the ways of the indigenous peoples wherein we, again, view Canada as ‘Kanata’, a village of us all!
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 6:45 pm
Actually, the municipal governments have to play ‘Please Sir, may I have some more?’ all the way up the bureaucratic ladder!
Just consider the Ontario municipla Board whioch regulates all municipla issues regarding zoning, land use, etc. Then there is FedNor who, like a God on Mount Olympus, designates how much, when, and how muncipalities can plan.
You have the pyramid upside down I think?
By James- Chatham on 03.19.08 8:54 pm
My pleasure, and you are most welcome!
Harper makes a bonehead move in recognizing Kosovo, and nobody cares. I know Dion likes it, but that certainly does not make it right.
Garth, why are you silent?
Not my issue. — Garth
By Ted on 03.19.08 5:01 pm
In my opinion the recognition of Kosovo independence is a huge mistake. The only excuse for taking this position was that the allies did it which shows the lack of leadership here in Canada. Over and over it appears we are incapable of taking an independent stand on any issue.
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 6:35 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk_SXcSZ9yg
Its too bad Harper ignored Lewis Mackenzie.
Dan Grice: “Our team earned our votes. We spend most of our time on the street, we pulled off our 14% while spending around 1/4 of the legal spending limit, and we focussed on the issues and pushed policy.”
A truly grassroots party – no whining about not having enough money, organization, whatever, no negative campaigning, just good old fashioned hard work that gets results.
Good job!
If you continue to allow him to govern as if he has a majority then there is nothing to stop him.
By C. B. Innes on 03.19.08 4:17 pm
C.B. It takes more than the Liberals to defeat the current Government.
I really don’t know or care who your political party of choice is but for what its worth, the Liberals, NDP & the Bloc have to be on the same page in order to bring on the defeat of this inept government. Maybe it’s high time we serve notice to the NDP & the Bloc to start doing their own jobs & quit supporting the CPC for political favors. We Canadians are not stupid & we do notice. Layton better start noticing that the Greens are biting on his heels & might soon overtake him leaving him in the dust & leaving him with this label; “Nothing but a bad memory NDP leader”. As for the Bloc, they will continue to support whoever gives them the most handouts. Sad but true.
Great post Brain. Glad to see your back posting.
Regards
This is exactly why I’m voting Green – the whole political process is tainted by unfair voting systems, and the Greens are the only ones that have really talked about making any significant changes. (not as significant as I’d like, but I haven’t heard a peep from any of the other big parties).
–Jonathan Addleman
The NDP have spoken about the need for electoral reform, and specifically proportional representation, for a long time. See for more information about the NDP’s efforts on this important issue.
The NDP have not only spoken about electoral reform/proportional representation, but have in the House on this issue, and currently have a .
Please sign the petition. Let’s get a fair voting system in place.
Sorry about the double post, but I just had to correct the html code:
This is exactly why I’m voting Green – the whole political process is tainted by unfair voting systems, and the Greens are the only ones that have really talked about making any significant changes. (not as significant as I’d like, but I haven’t heard a peep from any of the other big parties).
–Jonathan Addleman
The NDP have spoken about the need for electoral reform, and specifically proportional representation, for a long time. See this NDP link for more information about the NDP’s efforts on this important issue.
The NDP have not only spoken about electoral reform/proportional representation, but have tabled a motion in the House on this issue, and currently have a petition on this issue.
Please sign the petition. Let’s get a fair voting system in place.
I misinterpreted the the “HTML allowed” instructions in my previous post; so, I’m reposting below, with the HTML corrected:
This is exactly why I’m voting Green – the whole political process is tainted by unfair voting systems, and the Greens are the only ones that have really talked about making any significant changes. (not as significant as I’d like, but I haven’t heard a peep from any of the other big parties).
–Jonathan Addleman
The NDP have spoken about the need for electoral reform, and specifically proportional representation, for a long time. See this NDP link for more information about the NDP’s efforts on this important issue.
The NDP have not only spoken about electoral reform/proportional representation, but have tabled a motion in the House on this issue, and currently have a petition on this issue.
Please sign the petition. Let’s get a fair voting system in place.
This is exactly why I’m voting Green – the whole political process is tainted by unfair voting systems, and the Greens are the only ones that have really talked about making any significant changes. (not as significant as I’d like, but I haven’t heard a peep from any of the other big parties).
–Jonathan Addleman
The NDP have spoken about the need for electoral reform, and specifically proportional representation, for a long time. See this NDP link for more information about the NDP’s efforts on this important issue.
The NDP have not only spoken about electoral reform/proportional representation, but have tabled a motion in the House on this issue, and currently have a petition on this issue.
Please sign the petition. Let’s get a fair voting system in place.
And McGuinty if finally delivering us from Flaherty’s disastrous money handling under Harris/Eves.
And most Ontarians, based on the last election, agree.
By Judy on 03.19.08 7:54 pm
Yeah most voters in Toronto – not Ontario!
Judy – Flaherty did save Ontario. Bob Rae totally devasted Ontario’s economy. Flaherty saved Ontario’s economy while he was dealing with Chretien and Martin’s 25 Billion dollar decrease in the yearly provincial transfer.
And why did McGuinty increase his government expenditures by about 30 percent (from 68 Billion to 92 Billion)? You see any better more family doctors in Ontario? No! You see any substantive decrease in class sizes? No! You see better roads in Ontario? No! Are people paying more out of their pockets for things that are under government jurisdictions? Yes! Did Ontario receive more federal government transfer payments over the last 4 years? Yes!
So person should conclude that McGuinty is a failure – simple as that!
By Dan Grice on 03.19.08 8:49 pm
Dan, you really must be mistaken. The Liberals ran only a respectful, positive campaign in all four ridings. Sweet, really. Did you not hear Bob Rae? He said after he won his riding that the CPC were dirty in all 4 ridings, simply horrible people. I know, Martha said the opposite, but really, who are you going to believe?
Rome Burns,
“You might be interested to know Ottawa has no legal right to collect income tax …”
Wouldn’t it be nice? Sadly, that chestnut was roasted by the BC Supreme Court in 2001. See http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=British+NOrth+America+Act&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2001/2001bcsc1828/2001bcsc1828.html
Bob Robertson has a look at the leadership challenges of easily recognizable politicians in his “Leadership skills” that kills at
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=5d6abf4b-1603-4db3-8b9e-f8177ab08de7
Herb on 03.20.08 7:46 am
lol, roasted would be the term all right.
We already have a proven ability to collect a direct tax because, we already do, so it seems incomprehensible the judge would rule Ottawa has legally relived the provinces of their rights under confederation to collect a direct tax because of some mythical `inability`.
Obviously there is no inability and therefore no reason for Ottawa to break the rules of confederation in collecting a direct tax.
Premier Campbell said `we asked them to`. This is acceptable as long as Ottawa receives only their costs in doing so and not claiming federal ownership of a direct tax that falls under provincial jurisdiction.
Hardly a precedent setting ruling when it`s so obviously in error.
Setting all that aside it would still take an amendment to the rules of confederation and until that happens it`s illegal regardless of a judges determination, which in this case is in error anyway.
By Dan Grice on 03.19.08 8:49 pm
Dan, you really must be mistaken. The Liberals ran only a respectful, positive campaign in all four ridings. Sweet, really. Did you not hear Bob Rae? He said after he won his riding that the CPC were dirty in all 4 ridings, simply horrible people. I know, Martha said the opposite, but really, who are you going to believe?
By Leasa on 03.20.08 6:59 am
Hypocrisy, thy name is Leasa.
It is quite obvious that no one is driven by a deeper hatred for Liberals than you. Your massive guilt by association campaign, aimed at all liberals, past or present , is unmistakable. You are clearly taking a cue from your glorious leader.
Do you really think that people have forgotten that Stephen Harper firmly entrenched himself as Canada’s dirtiest politician ever when he accused Paul Martin of supporting child pornography? Do you really think they will forget that in one of his defining moments Harper was quoted as saying “I hate those f—ing Liberals?” The leader sets the tone and the troops fall in line, Or else!
By Catherine on 03.20.08 4:24 am
Speaking of roads in Ontario. They have deteriorated so bad in this province, Grandpa has to use extra glue on his dentures before venturing out. I have never seen the roads here in such absolute disrepair. We have two major provincial highways that run through my area…driver beware!
Leasa
Herb on 03.20.08 7:46 am
I think you`ll find this interesting.
SCoC rules fathers have no rights against the Charter that guarantees equal rights for individuals and identifiable groups.
BC court rules child porn has merit against the moral values of Cdns.
BC court rules federal government can claim ownership against the rules of confederation of the provinces exclusive right to direct tax.
Are you starting to see a pattern Herb, would fascism come to mind?
btw do you still believe the courts rule `in the best interests of the children`?
no justice, no investment
Herb on 03.20.08 7:46 am
When the provinces signed on to confederation the tax regimes were split up to protect the provinces autonomy. The federal government collects an indirect taxes such as exports while the provinces `own` the rights to direct taxes. Income tax was temporally turned over to the feds as a war measure because some provinces `didn`t have the ability` to collect and remit in the format needed to be involved in a world war. The measure legally expired at the end of WW2 as the sense of urgency over ability was no longer there. While the federal government may or may not have had the permission of provinces that suffered inability to continue to collect income tax on their behalf, I have not seen any agreements that;
a, request the federal government to collect a direct tax on their behalf
or
b, any agreement where the provinces voluntarily turn over the right of direct taxation to Ottawa which would have been in direct contradiction of the rights of the provinces to retain their autonomy.
Canada was set up to be run by the provinces, not a central power base in Ottawa.
The provinces would not have agreed to Confederation without the absolute, definable and continues right to collect a direct tax.
We are no longer the Canada the provinces agreed to under confederation.
Why was this so important to the founding fathers you ask?
Ottawa taxes everything that leaves or enters this country such as oil. With Ottawa collecting a direct tax in the form of income tax and GST they no longer need to collect as much indirect tax, they can relieve the exporters taxes by increasing income tax. Income tax replaced the equivalent in export tax and the GST replaced the manufactures tax.
The cost of doing business and running the federal government has been moved from business to tax payers giving the federal government the option to control profits through the control of a direct tax. The founding fathers had it right when the agreed the provinces would be more effect and less corrupt in controlling profits through a direct tax. Just look at the single source power based mess we have now.
The concentration of power was attributed to Trudeau but few in office would even admit it started with income tax.
point of interest, not only is the tax payer footing the bill of doing business in Canada the taxes we pay are subsiding business that should be the ones payers, isn`t that a hoot, where`s Layton, out riding? lol
No BC Court ruling will change those facts.
economic conditions will force the changes required
Care to make a wager I do more to contribute to the welfare of people in a week than you do in a year? You’re response is silly and immature. Grow up!
By John G on 03.19.08 9:04 pm
Your response is “I can do better than you in an income and taxes paid pissing contest”? Your own response is silly and immature. Grow up!
Herb on 03.20.08 7:46 am
In case the readers would like I summary of what I propose I`ll add it on as this thread is almost done.
First the problems.
As we know well Canada has gone from a resource based economy to manufacturing and back again to raw resources. With commodity prices losing there attraction our economy is now on melting ice.
Hopefully this will continues as economic meltdown in preferable to global conflict. Don`t dose off yet, there`s still $12T+ sitting idly that has armaments on their radar screen.
Globally the problem is the not just the lack of jobs but jobs that would increase the quality of life.
The solution is on my blog. This may seem like it`s a little to far in the future to contemplate now but there are other benefits besides the obvious creation global hope until jobs are actually created. Until final implementation that will actually create quality jobs globally it is also a very good step in restoring investor confidence in Canada.
We have 2 million fatherless children with the highest sole custody rate in history now just old enough to prowl the streets.
The proposal starts with a Cdn university completion on a mag lev system that will lead to a global competition. Our youth will have what they hope for, and want, a clean balanced world with enough future to span countless peaceful generations globally.
When you consider how this proposal addresses hope nationally and international while moving forward in restoring investor confidence in Canada I think you`ll agree that $50M to start the Cdn segment leading to a global competition is very small investment compared to the magnitude of returns just in hope alone, and it will happen one day, lets make it today.
Your response is “I can do better than you in an income and taxes paid pissing contest”? Your own response is silly and immature. Grow up!
BY BRAIN ON 03.20.08 1:04 PM
Not at all… try charitable donations,
By John G on 03.20.08 3:03 pm
Actually, it is silly and immature. Your rebuttal reeks of self entitlement “me first”, “my opinions and thoughts are more important” or “I am better than” justified by the size of your annual income, taxes paid including donations to charities. In other words, you are the perfect example, John, of “self entitlement” based on the fact that you believe you out earn most other people.
It used to be hard to control my own angst to someone such as yourself who believes those who make the most should call the shots. Its like saying the successful tyrants, money worshippers and successfully greedy should lead. Its hardly a given as well that those calls are for self interests. Even the example of philanthropy does not justify anyone the right to consider themselves to be above or beyond another as motive, John, is everything.
All men/women are created equal, John, regardless of whether or not their bank account is fat or thin.
Are all opportunities equal?
For some reason, there are those among us who believe that their successes were derived entirely from their own efforts, that they got to where they are entirely on their own. For some reason, certain people who fit your profile, by the way, John, believe that they created the language they speak, spoon fed themselves as infants and built the schools and roads and buses that took them there, and educated the teachers that taught them the basics or in essence, that all of their success came entirely on their own as though they never had help… no help from their parents, family, role models, teachers, friends and strangers from the past, ancestors they never had the chance to know, ancestors that cared and was motivated by good will to leave behind knowledge, resources and institutions for the future generations to come. In other words, they believe that they were never dependants, never will be again, and it is hardly surprising that these same self centred individuals (did I mention such people fit your profile?) are among the have’s who claim a “pay as you go” way of doing things is best, believing that everyone is capable of helping themselves and that if they aren’t capable and are in fact quite dependant on the help of others, that this is a matter of choice and therefore, there is no requirment to help others at all by government and for that matter any other organization or individual.
Tell me John… are you the kind of donator that donates to make yourself feel good or “proud”, or do you donate without asking the question, “whats in it for me?”
True love is like the love a mother has for her child. When the child cries, the mother doesn’t wake up cranky and ask “whats in it for me”, she wakes up, sacrifices her energies and sleep to address the needs of her child.
If you donate with love, John, your opinion has value to me. But if you donate because its all still just about you and making yourself feel good because you gave, that big numbers make you and your opinions more important than the efforts and opinions of others, your opinion will still count, its a democracy, but its an opinion that I can’t put weight in. Why? Because its silly and immature.
Rome Burns,
Have been away from the computer most of the day, so I’m late responding to your flurry of three.
On the Income Tax issue, I don’t see how you could get around the precise wording of Section 91 item 3 (“The raising of Money by any Mode or System of Taxation.”) or Section 92 item 2 (“Direct Taxation within the Province in order to the raising of a Revenue for Provincial Purposes.”) Check the BNA/Constitution Act 1867 yourself at http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/const/const1867.html#revenues I am not surprised that no one has tried to convince the SCoC that such clear words do not reflect the intention of Parliament or violate the scheme of the Act
On the courts, my experience is limited to letting a dog run at large (win), divorce (draw), and preparing for a potential appearance in Tax Court (hopefully not my first loss). If the courts were as asinine-to-fascist as you suggest, no taxpayer would ever win a case in Tax Court, and I have read many cases where “the Crown” (the Minister of National Revenue and his minions) was beaten about the head and shoulders by trial judges. I have seen two other judicial systems where judges are part and parcel of the political process, and I’ll take ours hands down. So I can’t follow you there either.
My economic expertise boils down to an early negative lesson in the stock market (or how to lose money in blue chips), then surviving to a modest retirement without enriching the finance sector. Your proposals are interesting but way out of my area. But I promise to resume the debate of your appointed government versus my electoral incrementalism when the time is ripe – despite the fact that you keep on twisting my words for effect.
By brain on 03.20.08 7:21 pm
Brain, the initial point of Adler’s posting was to simply demonstrate the value of self reliance, hard work and sacrifice. Those qualities epitomize most Conservative minded people I know.
You gave the typical reaction of the left, calling me selfish, ego centric etc. I cannot begin to tell you how many events we have attended only to witness the unbelievable generosity and kindness of the successful and affluent people in Toronto. Most of it given from the “heart”.
Insulting people like this (usually because of someone’s own shortcomings) is a statement of ignorance not fact. Unfortunately, there will always be a much greater portion of the population who falls into that catagory.
By John G on 03.20.08 10:11 pm
You gave the typical reaction of the left, calling me selfish, ego centric etc. I cannot begin to tell you how many events we have attended only to witness the unbelievable generosity and kindness of the successful and affluent people in Toronto. Most of it given from the “heart”. – John G
This isn’t an issue of left or right, or political philosophy, John. Its an issue of right and wrong.
You’ve made it clear earlier that one’s generosity and weight in terms of importance is measured by numbers, not motive. In the realm of debate, its called “using ones own words against them”. These are your words. I can’t take them away for you.
“Care to make a wager I do more to contribute to the welfare of people in a week than you do in a year? You’re response is silly and immature. Grow up!” – John G.
So yeah, talk up the affluent givings of Torontonians who give fromt he “heart” all you want, but when it comes to who’s opinion counts most or who knows best, its measured with you by numbers when all is said and done and I find something seriously wrong with that, John. Again, this isn’t about left or right, or political leanings, or even about philosophy itself. Its about knowing the difference between right and wrong adn making the right choices.
Had you been willing to seriously want to debate the givings/misgivings of left/right, I would have been more than glad to debate you on the pro’s and con’s of left, right and center (yes, center, that oft forgotten word sometimes used to describe “balance”) as they both have their strengths and weaknesses to be sure.
The left sacrifices the rights of the individual for the good of the whole. The right sacrifices the good of the whole for the rights of the individual and don’t think it doesn’t, as certainly in practice, its the macro life sustaining environment we all share that leaves the ugly report card to which no one can deny. The center says, “whats up with this need to sacrifice? Its called investment.”
All systems of government from despotism to democracy have had one common denominator throughout all time. Its called the generation and allocation of resources and humans have devised pretty much every system under the sun in these respects in the way the pie is created and sliced up, except for the one system that functions best. Query me and I’ll be more than glad to lay it out exactly what that system is for you.
Know that the central theme comes down to ownership (and if you don’t know this, we can’t even begin to have a worthy debate) and with this, there are three levels of ownership: God, nation, individual. All three will ask for blood to be shed in that quest to “own”. And own what. Most of what nations and individuals that put nations up to war spill blood and die for is for stuff that never lived.
Do you not know that most of all we have is on loan, that this life is a test in all respects including one of the most central themes of life itself, what it is that we can actually claim to call our own?
We own our choices, John and not much more as our choices follow us. Our bodies are a living testament of the environments we are so truly products of and when it times out, as they say, “you can’t take your play toys with you.”
Beyond this extremely finite reality called human existence, “what do you own”?
Come up with a good answer to that one, and mabye we can both go beyond insults and into an actual meaningful debate.
Herb.
Yes I`m out of rent money so I was out looking for a place to tent for the summer.
Are you saying whoo hoo, no internet connection, no rope, lol yes I`m, afraid you`re right.
I`ve talked to some very good legal minds on direct taxes. Income tax and GST are out of the realm of federal jurisdiction and so illegal but I only brought it up as a point of interest of which my interests are else where.
The courts don`t even follow their owns rules, if that makes them fair and just, you win.
“appointed government versus my electoral incrementalism”
I see no point in even having the discussion. Our elected federal government has been in failing mode for decades. It`s now to the point where the country could and most probably will go into serious melt down thanks to its failures. You can`t possibly have some position that shows it`s better than a provincially nominated federal government so, no thanks on a debate.
As long as your happy with the way things are that`s good enough for me, you win.
Have a good one.
no justice, no investment
Charles Oxley, that is not what a vomitorium is for. I’d hate to think what you might do if ordered to evacuate.
And here I thought not voting was the new Liberal way. Don’t be so hard on those folks, Garth; they’re just trying to avoid an election!