Garth,
As your name will be in the ballot I will cast in the next election, I have a direct question for you. In the last election you stood against the vision, the program and policy of the Liberal Party lead by Paul Martin. What did change in the vision, the program and policy of the Liberal Party, after Stephane Dion was elected leader, to convince you that now they share with you the same vision, program and policy?
I believe this question deserves a full post from you in your blog rather than a quick response here.
Thanks, AD
My response begins with an admission. After a long respite from being a member of Parliament, I re-entered public life in 2006 less a partisan than an idealist. Given my career experiences, I did not require a job, a salary, a pension or notoriety. In that, I was the most dangerous of politicians – one who decides to be guided by principle, rather than party.
Having said that, I was conservative by nature, and Progressive Conservative by history. I believed in less government, lower taxes, free enterprise and economic opportunity. A social conservative, though, I was not. I had battled the Reform Party in the past when it sought to discriminate against gays, recriminalize abortion, restrict immigration, promote censorship or mingle evangelical belief with public policy.
Likewise, I opposed the prevailing stereotype of Liberalism. Free-spending, deficit-prone, over-taxing, entitlement-loving governments represented a danger for my country that I had long vowed to resist.
In a telephone conversation with Stephen Harper in 2005, my first talk with him, the man assured me the new Conservative party would be a worthy successor of the PC one I had known – moderate, mainstreet, fiscally responsible and decidedly middle-of-the-road. However, he indicated that certain beliefs of the Reformers – principally a faith in the supremacy of the voters and a need for accountability in government – would be maintained and followed.
Based on that, I sought and won a nomination. Then an election.
Within a week of becoming an MP again, and within five minutes of my first private face-to-face meeting with Stephen Harper, I began to realize the prime minister was a chameleon. He sought to punish me for having voiced my constituents’ surprise and dismay that he would have put in his cabinet a man just elected as a Liberal and a completely unelected party financier. Within a day, his chief of staff had threatened me with expulsion from the caucus. His party whip had read me the riot act. I’d been told to issue a media release recanting my comments, and to immediately discontinue this blog. In other words, to obey.
But, I reasoned, my election had been to represent the voters to Ottawa, and not to subsume myself within a party or bow to a leader who was obviously unwedded to principle. Therefore, I didn’t comply. And you know the rest of the story.
So, yes, I did campaign against the vision, the program and the policy of Paul Martin’s Liberal government. That government was defeated. Mr. Martin resigned. The Liberals selected a new leader a year later, by which time Mr. Harper had thrown me out and I was sitting as an independent member of Parliament.
But in the 2005-6 election, I campaigned even harder for an agenda. It was based on a package of reforms I wanted for my middle-class constituents, and every other middle-income family in Canada. Included were pension-splitting, a family tax return, lower income taxes, income-splitting, restrained government spending resulting in lower inflation and interest rates, and a strong environmental agenda. I knocked on 26,000 doors over nine months, wrote a Voter’s Guide on these issues, published my personal agenda and tried to counter the omnipresent concerns about Stephen Harper.
Now you ask, do I share the vision, program and policy of Stephane Dion and his Liberals?
I will answer that, in part, by saying that becoming a member of the federal Liberal caucus has been the most positive thing to happen to me since the night I regained a seat in Parliament. My colleagues relish debate, unlike those I left, and they embrace diversity. That means listening to me argue in caucus and on the floor of the House for fiscal prudence, lower taxes and a break for the masses of suburban people who populate my riding. My ideas have been as welcomed as my presence, as this party looks for the renaissance which it so clearly needed after that last election.
Dion stands for lower income taxes, justice for income trust investors, a drop in corporate taxes, a climate change strategy with guts, tax-shifting to reduce the burden on families, balanced budgets and technological innovation. At the same time, he stands against Mr. Harper’s runaway government spending, state censorship, handcuffing regulators, cheating on elections, vote-buying, betraying promises, punishing scientists and standing idly by while the environment and species are at risk.
My new colleagues, with their openness, intellectualism and fearlessness have been the antithesis of my former ones. They may be far more difficult for a leader to cow into submission or threaten with censure, but they are far better MPs. My eyes have been opened far wider to the needs of all Canadians, including those who desperately require child care or assistance out of social ghettos or simply fail to fit into the Alberta moral and corporate mould.
Does this mean I agree with everything Stephane says or does? Hardly. I am still in Ottawa as a representative of the people, who must faithfully give voice to the people, and report back to them. I am not here to subjugate that highest duty to the narcissism or vanity of any leader, prime minister or no.
So, vote as you wish. Be true to your principles. I will.
202 comments ↓
You often make yourself out to be a Progressive Conservative rather than a Harper Conservative, but this does not answer the question of why, oh, why did you run for the Harper Conservatives in January of 2006, even after they broke off from the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada?
You ran flat-out for the Harper Conservatives in the last election, and yet still try to make yourself out to be a Progressive Conservative.
Why did you not side with Joe Clark when he said, “Better to stick with the devil that we know (Paul Martin) than to go for the devil that we don’t know (Stephen Harper).”
What were you thinking during the last election?
Why did you not stand with Joe Clark, who is a true Progressive Conservative.
Do you have a reading problem? — Garth
Bravo Garth … Bravo …!!!!!
Now please explain the following:
1. You say you don’t agree with Dion on everything he says or does. Please be forthright and list what you agree on and what you disagree on.
2. The impression is that the Liberals want to get back to power for the sake of power. What do you see of the Liberals that would contradict this accusation?
3. Why has the Liberal party been unable to decisively vault past the Conservatives in public poll after poll? Do you agree that Dion’s leadership is depressing Liberal popularity? If not what is holding back the Liberals?
4. Why is Dion avoiding a Spring election if he believes Canada is being irreparably damaged by the Conservative government? What is holding him back from precipitating a non-confidence vote and an election starting this coming week before the Summer recess?
5. Are you concerned with the apparent collapse of the Liberal party in Quebec, and do you believe Liberals can form a government without siginficant support from Quebec?
6. What is going to change between now and September when Parliament reconvenes? What will Dion be doing during the Summer recess to announce Liberal policy for an election projected for this Fall?
I ask you these questions with due respect, and I hope you are willing to respond in some depth so we who inhabit this forum will be enlightened in a reasonable manner. Thank you.
Thanks, Garth,
Your admission that you do not 100% agree with anyone, including the leader of the Liberal Party, is honest and realistic.
When I hear my own M.P. (through written word, mail-outs, and votes) agree 100% with the Prime Minister on every single issue, I realize that he is not independent, does not consult his constituents, and dares not contradict the Party line.
He used to be a P.C.. I don’t know what he represents now.
Garth, I can clearly read what you write when you say, “A social conservative, though, I was not. I had battled the Reform Party in the past when it sought to discriminate against gays, recriminalize abortion, restrict immigration, promote censorship or mingle evangelical belief with public policy.”
The question remains, “Why, oh, why did you run for the Reform Conservativeds rather than the Progressive Conservatives when you knew good and well that you could not stomach the social conservative views of the Reform Conservatives who highjacked the Progressive Conservative Party where your true loyalties remained?”
What were you thinking?
Silly me. I believed what Stephen Harper told me in his own words, with his own breath. — Garth
Harry: Why should anyone care about your “impressions”?
And if you saw the latest Ipsos poll you would know that the Liberals have overtaken the Cons in Quebec.
Hi Garth.
I do not need an explanation of your decisions in the past; I need you, as the most available Member of Parliament, to come to our aid by stopping Bill C- 51. After that I need you to take action on the other matter I have bugged
you about for the last year.
Canada’s C-51: Trojan Horse Legislation Sponsored by Big Pharma
Bill C-51 Unlawfully Suppresses Canadian Citizens’ Rights and Freedoms
[Editor's Note: Bills such as C-51 are but thinly disguised variations on Nazi Germany's 1933 Enabling Act which removed Parliamentary decision making and oversight from national legislation. Stated in its simplest terms, these bills are intended to replace democratic representative government with un-elected, closed-door decision making which will bind all citizens. We are witnessing the transformation of North American democratic government into oligarchic tyranny. Will Canadian citizens wake up in time?.. ..Ken Adachi]
From Kenn d’Oudney, The Democracy Defined Campaign
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/canadianC-51bill27apr08.shtml
April 27, 2008
Harry: Why are you so concerned with the Liberals and Mr. Dion?
If you spent as much time fixated on Stephen Harper perhaps you could advise him on how to vault past Stephane Dion when it appears he has tried every trick in his dirty books to do so and has failed.
Garth, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. Those of us who are sickened by what Harper’s neo-Con agenda is doing to our country can only hope that when the election writ is dropped that Dion’s team has a well-integrated and comprehensive platform. One filled with vision, compassion, fiscal prudence, innovation, and balanced with pragmatism.
Since Herr Harper and his henchmen are devoid of original thought I understand why the Liberals are not going to devulge their platform prior to the election writ being dropped. Harper has already proven that he has no principles and is quite prepared to criticize and mock Dion, cancel Liberal programs, then re-introduce those same programs under a new name and with less funding and call them his own. A prime example of this is the Conservative environmental initiatives….what little has been done (and let’s remember than VERY little has been actually done) were simply the relaunch of things that Dion introduced during his brief tenure as environment minister.
Keep your election powder dry. Keep on reaching out to Canadians. Stay true to your principles. And….you will help to save this remarkable country from the worst government it has ever seen under ego-maniac Harper.
I have to say, and I don’t mean to sound too arrogant, that it’s good too see some realizing what we knew all along about Harper. Shame that there are still a handful of MPs sitting in King Steve’s caucus that feel the same, but won’t run away from Harper and the neocons he surrounds himself with.
By Harry S on 05.03.08 9:49 pm
Here are some reasons Harry to vote for Stephane Dion and the Liberals in the next election. Much better than what we have now as you can see by PJW’s posts.
FREEDOM AND OPPORTUNITY
Stephane Dion proudly leads the Liberal Party of Canada. A Party that built the national social safety net we today take for granted.
Liberals created public pensions for our seniors.
Liberals created our national health care system.
Liberals created employment insurance for our unemployed.
Liberals created child benefit programs for our families.
Liberals were the first to talk about making work pay and using the tax system to help Canadians get over the welfare wall.
Stephane Dion will be calling on Canadians to support the Liberal Party’s 30-50 Plan, to join in common cause with us as we embark on a war on poverty never seen before in Canada’s history.
We will win this war not by keeping people dependent but by helping them become self-sufficient.
We will champion the dignity of work. We will champion families.
We will work with the provinces, we will work with communities, we will work with the Learning Enrichment Foundation and other similar organizations.
We will be the best partner that you ever had.
We will work with all Canadians and because of that we will succeed. And we will have a richer Canada, a Greener Canada, and a fairer Canada for ourselves, our children and generations to come.
Stephane Dion is a leader. He defines true leadership.
Stephane is a leader not a dictator like Stephen Harper.
Damn you Garth,
Why is Halton your ridding?
We on Vancouver Island NEED you.(Or someone like you.)
I really like that picture of you Garth.
Keep up the good work. Thanks for the blog. I will be working in the next election for the first time in my life because Harper has to go. I want my Canada back.
Hi John Duddy. on 05.03.08 10:08 pm,
Thanks for the info. link about bill c-51.
I to hope the people wake up in time!
Harry The Liar, do us all favour and F-Off you little boot licking CPC Harper Bot. You are a waste of Garth bandwidth
The only part of this post that would fit Mr. Turner is “narcissism”
Integrity give me a friggin break.
Congrats Garth. Integrity defines Turner.
. . . In other words, to OBEY.
http://rense.com/ has an interesting illustration for it’s lead-in — a family, watching a TV monitor and the word OBEY is dead centre, amongst the pattern of lights.
NWO is infiltrating and controlling our lives through various means and methods now — a first-class reason NOT to follow the msm — so people live like the Borg, following other’s orders without questioning them.
Guess they figure we’re nothing more than brain-dead sheeple, capable of zip. Brain-dead sheeple fade away and die.
****************************************
In a telephone conversation with Stephen Harper in 2005, my first talk with him, the man assured me . . .
So harpo lies through his teeth to bring you under HIS control.
Can anyone spell “a wannabe mind-controlling dictator, hell-bent on the destruction of Canada for his mentor dubya’s sake?”
Two ways to spell it: First — H-A-R-P-E-R; second — read within the quotes. First is the easiest way.
Let CRAP continue to self-destruct for a few months; by then, a majority of folk throughout the country will have a much clearer idea of what harpo and others of his ilk stand for.
Mixing politics and religion has never worked, and will undoubtedly polarize us into doing nothing about it at all — OR — getting off of our collective butts, take the time and trouble and vote this ultra right-wing, fascist minority out altogether.
Something’s gotta give.
Floorcrossing hypocrite!
Thank you for giving us an explanation about why you are now in the Liberal party.
Like you, I too am fiscally Conservative and socially Liberal which does not translate into free-wheeling spending for all social causes. What I do support is taxation that supports and periodically improves Canada’s infrastructure.
What I would one day like to see is the divisiveness that exists between populations living in individual provinces be decreased–competition between provinces needs to be lessened so all Canadians realize that united we triump, apart Canada becomes easy pickings for globalists.
This country has so very much offer.
Small government in modern times is an illusion. The electorate sets themselves up to disappointment if they believe it can become reality. Federalism must be strengthened because national policies are badly needed in the areas of education, environment, natural resources, defense, and trade to name but a few where there presently are no policies that stretch from the Pacific to the Atlantic.
Garth, your best post. You are real. I feel like it’s the 60’s again, in a bad way, and now tonight, a good way. The sleeve rolling we’re going to have to do, will be worth it.
Greg, Herb, Linda, Liz, Mary et al, I sent a copy of tonight’s post, comments and all, to a friend who is a newly confused old Calgary conservative. We were all having dinner and he said he didn’t trust any politician, and said the most bizarre things about liberals, confirming my worse fears that our Albertans have been swayed by the 37 years of politicians playing with their heads for politics’ sake.
I’ve never even mentioned politics here in 30 years, but over dinner, both these friends brought up “the subject”. Seems something is afoot. They are not happy (understatement). The cracks may be wider than we might think.
We’re going to the Rally Against Bill C-51 May 9 in Calgary. I hope everyone reading today will read and help fight for Canada.
http://www.stopc51.com/c51/press_facts.asp
Calgary, Alberta – Rally against Bill C-51
Date: May 9, 2008 ?Time: 11:45 am – 1:00 pm ?Place: Federal Court House (635 8th Ave. SW)
Mr. Turner, that your name does not appear on any of the “in and out” ad scheme records, nor on the just brought to light “polling” scheme records speaks volumes about you.
You’ve been a straight guy, no matter which team you play for.
Hockey trades happen all the time; this time YOU chose, and you’re playing the game like you mean it. For a home team that cares.
Keep on truckin’, Garth Turner!
Garth,
As a former Progressive Conservative like yourself , I say thank you.
As an income trust investor , I say thank you to every member of your party that has supported us in our struggle against the closed-minded oppression of the Harper government.
I supported the Conservative brand for several decades because I believed in their ideals.
I gave Mr Harper the benefit of the doubt when the Reform & the old PC party joined forces & they said they would remain loyal to the policy of the past.
Like yourself , as the first few weeks of this government emerged with several shocking developments, I had started to see that these guys were in no way representative of the party to whom I had given my support for so many years.
You saw the error of their ways long before myself–I continued to defend them to others until Oct 31st 2006 when they introduced the Tax Fairness Plan which broke their solemn promise not to tax income trusts.
I was in shock to say the least.
I was even more in shock when Mr Flaherty presented us with over a dozen blacked-out pages of proof for his tax leakage basis for the taxation.
To my amazement , just a short time later he demanded their return—-the good old smoking gun recall–unbelievable, incredulous!!!!!!
From there , it has been steadily downhill with the introduction of newly enhanced censorship legislation , the destruction of arms-length regulation , debilitating economic policy , & a path in Afghanistan which has gone against anything Canadian.
I have been appalled with what my party has become.
They do not deserve the support of anyone with a Progressive Conservative bone left in their body.
I appreciate the fact that Stephane Dion has found room for us within the Liberal party.
Income trust investors across this country will be there with our support when an election is called .
The Conservatives have written us off as a bunch of old farts who cannot look after their finances–we were good enough during the last campaign as they promised to protect us from the Liberal scourge.
I am just glad we found out who the real scourge is & it is time to bring Mr Harper`s chickens home to roost.
This broken promise is about to become costly Mr Harper–it is time to pay up.
Dr Mike Popovich–former life-long Conservative.
Justice For Income Trust Investors!!!
“Dion stands for … justice for income trust investors…”
“Dion stands for … justice for income trust investors…”
“Dion stands for … justice for income trust investors…”
Halleluiah. Music to the hears of trust investors, seniors and retirees throughout the land!!!
Stephane Dion, Garth Turner and The Liberals stand for truth, justice, thoughtfulness, compassion, honesty, integrity and accountability.
The Canadian way!!!
Words and concepts completely foreign to and discarded by Harper, Flaherty and their treacherous and treasonous CON ilk.
Vote for the Bright.
Not the Conservative Blight.
VOTE LIBERAL!!!
AND TAKE BACK CANADA!!!
Garth, you say your Liberal colleagues “listen” to you, but, you must state which of your ideas will be part of the Liberal’s policies?
So far we have not seen anything that Stephane Dion truly stands for.
War in Afghanistan: Stephane Dion wanted out in 2009 but agreed with the 2011 extension.
GST cut from 7% to 5%: Stephane Dion cries out that the 2 percent GST reduction is bad economic policy, yet he won’t raise the GST back to 7%.
Tax cuts and credits: Stephane Dion doesn’t like the “retail” tax cuts and credits, yet he won’t remove them.
Income trusts: Stephane Dion and the Liberals cried and whined about the Income trust issue, yet did not bring the Conservative government.
Kyoto: Stephane Dion supported Kyoto and all the buying of Chinese Carbon credits, yet didn’t bring down the Conservative government.
New Equalization formula: Stephane Dion sucked up to Danny Williams, when Danny Williams had a tiff with Stephen Harper, yet didn’t bring down the Conservative government.
Debt repayment: Stephane Dion didn’t like the fact the national debt was being down more than the 3 Billion a year he thought it should be, yet didn’t bring down the Conservative government.
And there are so many more examples of Stephane Dion whining and doing NOTHING to show that he has convictions and principles.
Stephane Dion HAD his chance to show that he was a man of conviction and principles, and he blew it! He certainly isn’t a leader that people could trust.
The question I would pose, who is going to lead the CPC into the next election if Mr. Harper is in jail?
John Duddy, I would like to hear Garth’s thoughts on C-51 too. This has been largely ignored by MSM.
“I ask you these questions with due respect”
LMAO…
BTW, Garth. Could you please define “tax-shifting”? Thanks.
By Harry S on 05.03.08 9:49 pm
1. Wouldn’t that list be a wonderful thing for the CPC to use in the next campaign…think for a moment, Harry!
2. They haven’t defeated the government as yet.
3. Nothing is holding back the Liberals, in the latest poll they have passed the CPC. What is holding back the CPC? If they are so wonderful, transparent, honest and ethical, they would be a 50%. What is holding them back is a basic distrust by the voter in Harper especially after his tape admission of vote tampering and on and on. I suggest you look at Harper’s numbers when he was in opposition.
4. Because he views this election as being very important to the future of Canada and he wants to be sure they are able to remove the secretive government with an undemocratic agenda now in power.
5. The apparent collapse appears to be the CPC in Quebec, the latest poll has them behind the Liberals and the ADQ, which was seen at the CPC base, has plumetted to 18% provincially.
6. Hopefully Mr. Harper will have resigned in disgrace over the numerous CPC scandals ….
Bye Harry……….
“Garth, you say your Liberal colleagues “listen” to you, but, you must state which of your ideas will be part of the Liberal’s policies?”
By Catherine
When the writ is dropped you will find out, any party who releases their platform prior to the election call especially in opposition has given the governing party the opportunity to steal their ideas…something the CPC has done in the past. Have some patience, your darlings are in power at the moment, enjoy while you have it!
Garth, you are a breath of fresh air. My MP, who I sadly voted for, the Great Guergis, is an embarassment to me, my family and the people of Simcoe County. Does she have a blog? Please, she will not use email because she says the internet is not safe. MP’s represent the people who elected them and not the leader of the party. As a life long Conservative voter it will be a long time before we ever vote for the Cons again. Keep up the good work Garth.
Stephane Dion HAD his chance to show that he was a man of conviction and principles, and he blew it! He certainly isn’t a leader that people could trust.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 5:31 am
If you think he can;t be trusted..LMAO…
LOOK AT WHO YOU SUPPORT…
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in their campaign financing.
His chief of staff, most likely under instructions from Harper, tried to INTERFERE in another country’s election process.
NAFTAGATE: (Probably doing a favour for his idol Bushie)
He tried to SMEAR Liberal MP Bains in the House of Commons.
(The character of Stevie exposed, like the smear against Martin as favouring child pornography and Liberals supporting the Taliban)
He ran on having an ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT, then immediately appointed an unaccountable minister.
(Hiding Michael Fortier in the Senate, the same senate he opposed as unelected, then appointed Fortier)
HE SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT from the dishonest Liberal government, they are the same if not worse.
(too many scandals to get them on one post, Baird, Day etc. etc..)
He MUZZLES HIS MINISTERS and only allows them to talk in public after the content has been cleared with the PMO. Now he wants to muzzle all government offices by having them clear everything with the PMO before releasing information.
Then he has scraped the Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests to deny access to Canadians to millions of pages of once secret documents.
He BROKE HIS WORD on the Atlantic Accord.
He SENDS HIS SMALL MINDED FINANCE MINISTER out to pick a fight with Ontario, the same finance minister that left Ontario with a $5.6 billion deficit and claimed it was balanced.
(Now we will have another problem with small minded Jim, if the
federal finances slip into deficit, will we know?)
And of course, Mr. Flaherty has problems with his untendered contracts….
Meanwhile the CPC is hell bent on TAKING AWAY ONTARIO’S representation based on population.
(Obviously the CPC is not interested in Ontario voters)
Remember that poor MILITARY WIDOW in the Maritimes that Harper promised she would get her pension, did she ever get it?
NOW we have the RCMP VISITING the CPC headquarters with a warrant? What illegal action has taken place?
COULD IT BE DEFRAUDING THE TAXPAYERS?
HIDES BEHIND PARLIAMENTARY PRIVLEDGE TO LIE ABOUT LIBERAL APPOINTMENTS!
Poor Stevie Harper…seems to be a DISHONEST & UNETHICAL leader!
Catherine…why not post your drivel where somebody actually cares about it rather than on Garth’s blog? You are such an obvious Conservative lapdog.
Catherine – let me jog your memory a little.
Harper didn’t let his policies out until the election campaign – he announced one each day. So, why do you expect Dion to give out his policies so that Harper can send out misleading attack ads, etc.? C’mon, Dion isn’t that stupid.
You can’t have it both ways – if it’s okay for Harper to wait for an election, so it should be for Dion.
Thanks, AD
Well said Garth, then again I as many other have learned through your candor posted “On your Blog” to expect no less than the truths you have scribed.
Now AD….if you would digested Garth’s words for thought, then you as many others might agree with Garth that Stevie by just does no get it as he continues to live in a negative world driven by his personal agenda (s).
AD must stand for “Always Disagree”, continue to keep your mind closed at your own peril. I tend to look forward and keep an open mind and enjoy life. Off to visit some good old WW II Vets, thank God they were forward looking guys hey!
The question I would pose, who is going to lead the CPC into the next election if Mr. Harper is in jail?
By pjw on 05.04.08 6:08 am
What a stupid question!!!
You can’t have it both ways – if it’s okay for Harper to wait for an election, so it should be for Dion.
By slg on 05.04.08 7:07 am
Not quite my dear, it is not OK for Stephane Dion to wait, as he is being defined by his “talking out of both sides of his mouth” and showing no convictions or principles. It is already becoming too late to reverse his image and will be impossible for anyone to listen to his election promises.
Well, Garth, another one of your Liberal colleagues are stepping away from Stephane Dion’s “dream team”.
Looks like Dr. Martin will NOT be running in the next election.
There is an interesting article in the Post about Dr. Martin.
“He said part of the problem is the escalation of cross-party bickering. “I support the vast majority of what we [the Liberals] stand for … but I also think there is a strong desire amongst ordinary MPs to be able to work together with members from other parties. There is actually more that unites us than divides us. This perversion of the Westminster system we have here forces us to fight on the margins of issues so the bulk of issues we could actually pass for the public good could be [dealt with] now but the system is focused on one where we battle each other all the time. The ability to work across party lines is gone.”
It’s too bad you MPs have take this advise seriously and stop your childish behaviours.
TWO WORDS SUM UP GARTH AND HIS ATTITUDE.
SELF SERVING.
Well Garth
You have given me another cause for contemplation. What/who makes a better politician…
Is it the “social advocate”, who comes from the ranks of the common man, works their way up to make a decent living, and then enters politics to bring about change?
Or, it is the already successful individual, who is financially independent, had no “need” for the job, but is on a mission to bring about change?
I guess the answer is “it depends”.
You are absolutely right that your ability to not “need the job” gives you the freedom to vote your conscience. This is something you can leverage for your own agenda, and it seems you do do.
Well, I am glad that you show signs of having the common interest at heart when you act. Yes, I am a fan, and hope your ethics rub off on some of the caucus around you.
Thanks for my new muse… hmmmm… something to consider next dog walk!
I see the new topics really brought out the Death Star Trolls enmass. That was expected as the bothersome little ‘gnatsies’ swarm on cue. SWAT! them, or merely brush them away, even a strong exhale disperses them.
Speaking, especially truth, makes them go intio the most delightful little high ‘g’ spins. I prefer the evenings, the same time the bats come out to feed. They are, at least, of some value as food back into nature.
Their time, as nature proves every year, is very limited.
I wish I could vote for you.
What a stupid question!!!
By Catherine on 05.04.08 9:00 am
Sorry I invaded your territory!
LOL! I see the ‘gnatsies’ are also getting their panties in a knot. Does that make them ‘knotsy gnatsies’?
Amazing what nature will reveal when one merely looks at it. Little swarmy things flittering about leading basically meaningless lives but feeling so secure in their little inbred group…Until the natural cleaners come in to feed. The beautiful birds of freedom, the bats who can sense everything around them by merely listening.
I love my patio. It is a microcosm of reality. I recall seeing the mindless mushrooms hiding in the shady areas, feeding off the rot of decay. They look pretty, but are just fungi liking the dark, and loving BS.
Spring is a wonderful time of year. Life renews, and hope springs forth as the silent trees again blossom forth to rise tall and strong amidst the fallen debris around them.
Yes, nature can teach many lessons to those who have an eye to see, and an ear to hear.
Oh, and did I mention that one of the ‘gnatsies’ worst fears is the appearance of ‘Raid’. One well aimed spray can cover hundreds at a time…bringing them down with very little effort.
Obviously, it is a ‘warranted’ solution to their persistent pestiness as they attempt to go in and out of our areas.
“There is actually more that unites us than divides us. This perversion of the Westminster system we have here forces us to fight on the margins of issues so the bulk of issues we could actually pass for the public good could be [dealt with] now but the system is focused on one where we battle each other all the time. The ability to work across party lines is gone.”
It’s too bad you MPs have take this advise seriously and stop your childish behaviours.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 9:06 am ”
Catherine,
Do you actually read what you write? The Conservatives actually have a handbook published and given top all of their lap dogs ..er.. I’m mean MP’s on how to obstruct parliamentary committees.
My favourite tip from the book is if you don’t like what an witness is telling you, get up from the table and walk out. Shut the commitee down. (They should have added stick your fingers in your ears and repeat – I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you …”)
Now I ask you. Does the presence of this book clearly show that the CONservatives as mindfully and wilfully disrupting the functioning of parliament or not?
Hi Garth,
You are a good man and I am glad you are in parliament. I often feel as if your blog gives me access to the corridors of power in Ottawa, especially if I write something useful.
Regarding this blog: it is interesting to note that you are now a member of the same party as Bob Rae; the NDP Premier who outlawed scab labour in Ontario! Moreover, having you both on the same team broadens the liberal party and keeps it close to the centre.
As for the fate of the PC party, I hated the way Peter McKay allowed the Progressive Conservative party to be high-jacked. He was way too immature and lacking in so many leadership qualities to even be leader…..I have heard that he isn’t very sharp but he is like-able. I think the latter is probably why he became leader. Today, it seems as though McKay has no influence in national affairs or domestic policy and it has no ability to influence “know it alls” like Harper or Finley. The true Tory Party is dead.
The liberal party today is loaded with talent, bright optimistic minds, committed to fiscal conservatism (surplus budgets that provide a symbol of hope and stability-Harper doesnt realise this), socially progressiveness and economically pro-active.
Garth, I think you’re principles are similar to mine. I am glad you are in parliament and a liberal.
Keep up the good work,
Daryn
TWO WORDS SUM UP GARTH AND HIS ATTITUDE.
SELF SERVING.
By david on 05.04.08 9:12 am
Oh, and Stephen Harper isn’t
Catherine, re your comment: “Well, Garth, another one of your Liberal colleagues are stepping away from Stephane Dion’s “dream team”. Looks like Dr. Martin will NOT be running in the next election.”
You must try to improve your reading skills. Dr. Martin says that the next election will be his last. He plans to run at least once more. But remember, he’s a politician — he’d continue to run, if the Libs won the next election and he found himself being driven to work each day in a Cabinet Minister’s Limo.
He must have been in a snit about something yesterday, when he gave that interview.
Garth
Thank you for your post. It certainly gives me some insight into the flawed Conservative Party of today. I, unlike some of my fellow bloggers on your site think there are many principled M.P.s from all four parties in the House.
However, leadership of a political party sets the tone and the policies. When I watched Stephen Harper rise in the House, and imply Navdeep Bains’ family had ties to the Air India bombing I realized what a danger this man represents to Canada.
It was from that point on that many of the Conservative members started using inflammatory language in the House and dirty tricks in Committees.
I don’t think there is any other sitting M.P. who has endured more ridicule and character assassination than Stephane Dion. First, he faced it in Quebec over the Clarity Act and now this “swift boat” tactic of saying he is not a leader.
While Stephen Harper was moving big bucks around to buy the election Mr. Dion rescued the Kyoto protocol in Montreal that December.
What a stark comparison between the two men.
Floorcrossing hypocrite!
By wilson on 05.04.08 1:09 am
…how do you feel about Emerson and Khan????
Not quite my dear, it is not OK for Stephane Dion to wait, as he is being defined by his “talking out of both sides of his mouth” and showing no convictions or principles. It is already becoming too late to reverse his image and will be impossible for anyone to listen to his election promises.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 9:03 am
Huh? What’s this about revealing policies? This doesn’t even make sense. People only listen to policy during an election campaign. Well, you do try, even if you screw it up.
Your response to those who can’t get past your joining the Liberal Party is as close to inspiring as politics get these days in Canada. Like you, I was once a Progressive Conservative both by nature and by tradition. But I began to question my affiliation some years ago, and that doubt turned to conviction when the Harpercrits swallowed the rump of the PCs, and began turning the party into a pathetic version of George W. Bush’s neocon Republicans. And like you, I had serious doubts whether I could support the Liberals, if for no other reason that they had been in power too long and were acting like it. But I share your assessment of both parties now and will do what I can to remove Harper’s gang from power before they can turn my country into the mess that W. has created in his. That means working to get more MPs like you and Stephane Dion into government, people of principle and integrity who have the guts to take a stand against the hypocritical bobbleheads who are making a dictator of Steven Harper.
Good post Garth. Nothing new because I have been conscious of you since 1988 when you were my MP but I guess it’s good to remind the people who may not have kept up and bring any newbies up to speed.
I won’t rehash my regularly state anti-partisan opinions any more than to express my astonishment about how many people are so staunchly partisan. Groups (parties) change, times change, economies change and people change so we had better be prepared to evolve or else… That old definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. For what it’s worth, coming from a more-or-less anonymous source on a blog, let me assure anyone with concerns that, in my opinion, (which is never humble) there has been nothing unsettling in the evolution of Garth Turner over the last 20 years. What you see is what you get.
And to the people who insult him and our intelligence with their narrowed minded rhetoric… “There is none so blind as he who will not see.”
So it seems that Garth and I have evolved along very similar paths and I am comforted by that but there is pressing business at hand and we should get on to other things.
My father made a very interesting observation over dinner on Friday night, after pulling a $250 bottle of wine from his collection, (paraphrased) : Now that the investment bankers and financial gurus have been busted for the sub-prime mortgage scam, they are certainly working on the next scheme to exploit legal and moral grey areas to move money from the pockets of the working class into those of the wealthy. What is it?
And as a second attempt to pre-empt the stereotypical kneejerk responses that I am anti-wealth (See the reference to a $250 bottle of wine, I consider myself wealthy and am not burdened self-loathing.) it is the way that wealth is accumulated, how it is concentrating and the long term social impact that it is going to have that concerns me.
In the past week there were articles in both the Globe and mail and the Hamilton Spectator about how the wealth is being distributed in Canada. Since 1980 the earnings of the top 20% of Canadians has increased by 16%, while the income in the middle has stagnated and the income of the bottom 20% has decreased by 20% . To make an understatement, this concerns me on several levels for several reasons and I can not understand why the population in a democratic country like Canada isn’t starting to voice its concern that these trends are blatantly undemocratic and if left unchecked will threaten our way of life.
Have we as a group become so focussed on self that we are unable to empathise with the plight of the less fortunate? (No, I am not a social conservative.:)
Gath, I completely understand that no politician can broach this subject, political suicide, but the disparity, along with the environment and the other important issues that you touched on, will have to be addressed if we are going to sustain our prosperous and safe lifestyles.
Keep on plugging and see what you can do to get a good candidate on the other side of Walkers line. I’m not prepared to say that I’m going to vote Liberal yet, but damn I want these fascist gone.
My opinion: only ONE word is needed to describe Harper and his drooling minions:
LIAR
And I do believe that over 2 million seniors and retirees that Harper SCREWED OVER agree.
Electtion? bring it on. I want my Canada back. Not this foul dictatorship of liars.
The only part of this post that would fit Mr. Turner is “narcissism”
Integrity give me a friggin break.
By Brian Wilson on 05.03.08 11:36 pm
Listen up you stupid greaser,beach boy .
Insulting Garth on his blog is too easy.
We know you would never have the guts to say it to his face .
So take a walk,into the ocean, until your hat floats .
I stopped trusting Harper on Oct 31 2006. During his election campaign he said that he would not change the way taxes were collected through Income Trust BUSINESSES such as A+W, Jazz Air, etc. I voted for him because of this.
Then, just a few short months after he was elected, he did a complete 180 and stabbed Income Trust BUSINESSES like Pembina Pipeline and Pengrowth Energy and the people who invested in these BUSINESSES in the back.
Cadman, the In-Out, the new polling scandal, the attack on Income Trust BUSINESSES which really hurt certain businesses while helping their friends businesses (I thought they didn’t pick and choose winners and losers). Nafta-Gate. Shutting committees down.
The only thing I trust Harper and the Conservative Party to do now is to very skillfully and decisively LIE, CONCEAL and FABRICATE every time they open their mouths. They have proven they are simply not trust worthy. I am embarrased I voted for them. Will not do it again.
To fight climate change, ‘we need to put a price on carbon’
With its wealth, Canada can and should lead the world in battling effects of climate change
Toronto Star – May 04, 2008
Stéphane Dion
Now, more than ever, we must build bridges. We must build bridges between environmental sustainability, social justice and economic growth because only a solution that addresses all of these concerns will ensure success. And we must build bridges among the countries of the world because climate change is a global crisis requiring global action.
I believe the countries with the strongest economic fundamentals and the most inclusive approach to social issues will be in the best position to find solutions to the climate-change crisis.
More at:
http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/420905
…………………………………………………
Garth … do you agree or disagree with Dion’s position for a carbon tax on energy? If you do not respond in detail to Dion’s article, we shall assume you totally agree with Dion and a carbon tax.
Garth, is it also the LIBERAL position and do YOU agree with,
“Dion stands for Lower Income Taxes,
a drop in Corporate Taxes,
and Tax-shifting to Reduce the burden on families.”
That being the case, who is the tax burden being shifted to??
Integrity give me a friggin break.
Ya, I haven’t got any as I fallow a LIAR.
By Brian Wilson on 05.03.08 11:36 pm
Floorcrossing hypocrite!
Thats my Emerson.
By wilson on 05.04.08 1:09 am
Ps. I fallow a LIAR.
Assume this! When did you get put in charge?
If you do not respond in detail to Dion’s article, we shall assume you totally agree with Dion and a carbon tax.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 12:19 pm
Of course you know that when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself Harry. I also know you must be a neocon by your immense need to control Garth.
Thank you so much for this wonderful article by Stephane, I don’t generally read the Star so without you I would have missed it. I am so glad to read it as it just confirms how much I want Stephane to lead Canada through the difficult times ahead. I have saved it to be used during the campaign that is to come.
You might choose to view the movie “The Eleventh Hour” and then share it with your leader.
Just to remind you, I gift you with this:
FREEDOM AND OPPORTUNITY
Stephane Dion proudly leads the Liberal Party of Canada. A Party that built the national social safety net we today take for granted.
Liberals created public pensions for our seniors.
Liberals created our national health care system.
Liberals created employment insurance for our unemployed.
Liberals created child benefit programs for our families.
Liberals were the first to talk about making work pay and using the tax system to help Canadians get over the welfare wall.
Stephane Dion will be calling on Canadians to support the Liberal Party’s 30-50 Plan, to join in common cause with us as we embark on a war on poverty never seen before in Canada’s history.
We will win this war not by keeping people dependent but by helping them become self-sufficient.
We will champion the dignity of work. We will champion families.
We will work with the provinces, we will work with communities, we will work with the Learning Enrichment Foundation and other similar organizations.
We will be the best partner that you ever had.
We will work with all Canadians and because of that we will succeed. And we will have a richer Canada, a Greener Canada, and a fairer Canada for ourselves, our children and generations to come.
Stephane Dion is a leader. He defines true leadership.
He certainly isn’t a leader that people could trust.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 5:31 am
Yes, PMSH has certainly proven himself a LIAR of the first class.( no make that ” of no class”)
But as long as Catherine will fallow him she proves what her posts are worth. NOTHING.
It’s too bad you MPs have take this advise seriously and stop your childish behaviours.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 9:06 am
Like putting away PMSH’s book on how to disrupt committees???????
Catherine, the joke is YOU. Don’t you get it? You fallow a LIAR.
That makes you the fool.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 12:19 pm
So Harry I presume that you read the article that you linked? And after reading it the best that you can come up with is a narrow minded question about a carbon tax?
Harry, when I read that article I see vision and that is arguably the most important component of leadership. The man has a vision for Canada and all of its people and it’s a progressive and positive vision. Idealistic? Almost certainly. Seems like a good target to be aiming for.
And the best that you can come up with is a challenge about a carbon tax.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 12:19 pm
Harry, would you do us a favour? Give us a link to an article where Mr. Harper expresses his vision for Canada.
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 10:06 am
Hey Bill, Do they teach “Hummor 101″ in the Marine Corp.?
You must have graduated “Suma-Cume-Laud”.
(I am not sure how that should be spelled, I never took Latin. They are as dead as the Neo-Cons will be after the election.)
“I did not require a job, a salary, a pension or notoriety.”
That, Garth, makes you as dangerous to the political machinery as Trudeau was. Love it! As long as our “principles” are aligned, you will stay my duly-elected virtual MP.
Canada should lead the way once again on cleaning up GHG’s and other air born chemicals/pollutants .
If we start a free trade in carbon credits
we stand to make billions on this new economy .
Expensive gas and oil is a motivating factor in getting people to use less energy .
Whatever happened to car pooling ?
Garth never left the neo’s they left him .
Hung out to dry for daring and tweaking the nose of the status quo with his new digital democracy .
His brethren tossed him overboard and threw him a concrete life preserver .
Can the Liberals afford to campaign on a carbon tax?
Re: A tax on carbon worthy of debate
Dion will commit political suicide if he thinks that the environment or fighting climate change is the # 1 issue for Canadians during an economic slowdown……..to add to carswell’s post # 9216 see the comments in the British newspapers below on Labour’s recent defeat in the local elections:
THE BORIS EFFECT: UK GOVERNMENT TO SCRAP GREEN
TAXES IN BID TO CALM VOTER FURY
——————————————————————————-
Gordon Brown is poised to scrap a series of
unpopular tax rises as part of sweeping changes to
stave off a dangerous revolt over the rising cost of
living which last week dealt Labour its worst
electoral hammering in 40 years. Today the Prime
Minister will respond to a growing suburban
uprising by signalling moves to help motorists and other
consumers. Last night Downing Street sources
hinted the 2 per cent rise in fuel duty due in the
autumn may not go ahead, in a concession to tight
household budgets.
–Gaby Hinsliff and Jo Revill, The
Observer, 4 May 2008
Internal polling in London found Ken
Livingstone’s green policies, such as new charges for
gas-guzzling cars, alienated older voters, while the
environment was at best a low priority for others,
suggesting that, as families’ budgets shrink, so
does their willingness to pay to save the planet.
‘My colleagues will say Labour has got to be
brave on green issues, but the public are really
feeling the pinch,’ said one senior minister.
–Gaby Hinsliff and Jo Revill, The
Observer, 4 May 2008
U.K. voters resoundingly rejected the Labour
Party in local elections last week. It was no
capricious shift, but a citizen revolt against trendy
carbon and nanny-state taxes that empower only bad
government. For Labour, it was the worst election
in 40 years. Every tax and intrusion imposed by
Labour in recent years was justified as being for
voters’ “own good.” Ending global warming,
reducing carbon footprints, lowering carbon emissions
and raising public funding of renewable energy -
all were excuses used to hit the voters’
pocketbook with more taxes. Yet none of these taxes
improved the quality of life.
–Investor’s Business Daily, 2 May 2008
Oh dear! The inevitable is happening. The ‘global
warming’ trope is unravelling on a daily basis -
scientifically, economically, and politically.
The wheels are coming off the hysterical
bandwagon, and it is not going to be a salutary sight
watching the politicians and the media junkies
jumping cart and trying to throw mud in everyone’s
eyes.
–Philip Stott, 3 May 2008
Global warming is a new religion and blasphemy
against that religion is not a laughing matter. The
high tide of unthinking adherence to this new
religion has been reached and I think it may well
be in the coming years the tide will gradually
recede but it will be a very glacial progress.
–Nigel Lawson, The Guardian, 3 May 2008
But, of course, people aren’t interested in these
kinds of facts. They want the religion. They
want the sweet moralistic feeling of telling someone
to stop doing something. They want to be able to
rage about Chelsea Tractors and Tony Blair’s
flights, and they want to give vent to their
feelings of disgust at the whole triumph of Western
consumerist capitalism.
–Boris Johnson, The Daily Telegraph, 11
January 2007
For the first time in years, voters seem
skeptical that solar, wind, ocean waves and currents,
biofuels and other so-called renewable sources of
energy can replace gasoline, petroleum-based
diesel, home heating oil, natural gas, and propane to
any significant degree in the foreseeable future.
Among ordinary middle class, working class and
poor voters, global warming appears to be a
non-issue. More and more hard-pressed people are more
afraid of pauperization than the manmade greenhouse
gases that supposedly cause climate change.
–China Confidential, 3 May 2008
Stephane Dion is the best hope for the Canadian environment.
All he Harpercrits have done is clone an outdated version of Stephane’s 2005 model.
We need him and his team to update and complete what he started in 2005 not more “smoke and mirrors” from the Harpo clown party.
Terry, would you please elaborate on that, and provide a link if possible?
The only thing I’ve heard with regards to polling was last Fall in the Daniel Paille report, written by a former Bloc operative commissioned to find dirt on the Liberals on a topic that was essentially cleared by Sheila Fraser as being inconsequential. The release of that report was timed for an anticipated election but it backfired when the content revealed the main problem lay with the commissioners themselves, and it was withheld from public view until months later when it was hoped it could be buried beneath other items in the spotlight. The report indicated that the Conservatives – they who chastised the use of polls when in Opposition – were polling at an unprecedented rate, 2 per business day, and at an unprecedented level, $31.2 million annually, compared to the Liberal rate of $18 million. Then in the February this year, they made an announcement that they had seen the error in their ways and would be more fiscally prudent by lowering that figure to $21.2 million, still 20% higher than the Liberal value!
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071213/polling_probe_071213/20071213?hub=Canada
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080213/tories_polling_080213/20080213?hub=Politics
Well stated post Garth.
“A person who stands for nothing will fall for anything”. I don’t know where that quote originates but it’s one that I will live and die for every day.
A bill proposed by Edmonton area MP Ken Epp would declare a fetus a human being .
As the law stands at the moment a fetus has to exit the womb and draw breath to be legally described as a human being .
Leon Benoit tried this on early last year and the bill died .
Declaring a fetus as human would disrupt Canada’s existing abortion laws .
“This bill will not reduce violence against women. It hasn’t had that affect in the United States where it’s been passed in several states and they have similar fetal rights laws,” said Ariana Barer who is opposed to the bill.
Ken Epp has said the bill was written so it will not change the legal definition of a fetus.
If it does not change the legal status of a fetus then why bother ?
In order for the bill to become law it would need to be passed by a committee and then get final vote of approval in the House of Commons.
Another lame attempt to put up legislation that will never pass the SCOC rulings .
Neo twits try another end run around abortion bill .
By Men With Hats on 05.04.08 1:37 pm
They’d need a majority to do anything substantial. Reopening the “abortion issue” would lose them Québec.
-R
Hi Garth,
Sorry I’m going to steal some of your popular exposure, I hope you don’t mind. Here is a good “youtube” video that I came across that shows Dion’s true colours:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=r1I_IlcOsx4
I get a sense that Mr. Dion is too good of person, too smart and too honest for the political wars he will have to fight to implement his vision.
I am always looking for stuff that talks over the Conservative attacks ads.
Challenge him when you have to but keep him level headed.
Hope you are enjoying your Sunday,
Daryn
And the best that you can come up with is a challenge about a carbon tax.
By Brammer on 05.04.08 1:01 pm
What I particularly liked was the “we will assume” I guess he included Catherine in that since Leasa has seen the light! Like Harry and Catherine were going to vote anything but CPC…LMAO…
Emerson, Turner, Khan, Stronach, Brisson, Rae, Dosanjh etc, etc. are all opportunistic selfserving traitors to their Parties. Shame on all of them!!
Harry, would you do us a favour? Give us a link to an article where Mr. Harper expresses his vision for Canada.
By Brammer on 05.04.08 1:05 pm
I know Harry will probably not respond but he seems quite good at speaking for others, so I thought I might have a go at his forte and answer your question on his behalf, you see Harry only reads his own posts.
I couldn’t find an article but I did find their website….
http://www.usa.gov/
The time has come,” the Walrus said, “To talk of many things: Of shoes – and ships – and sealing-wax – Of cabbages – and kings
And the minstrel said;
Now, more than ever, we must build bridges. We must build bridges between environmental sustainability, social justice and economic growth because only a solution that addresses all of these concerns will ensure success. And we must build bridges among the countries of the world because climate change is a global crisis requiring global action.
**************
Pretty words are what they give you. Pretty words from the mouths of the old guard. But it doesn’t change really.
They still send boys and girls to die, and they hold there hands up in the air.
They still posture and tell you to believe, but they still send the boys and girls to die.
They still choose an idiot whose father hasn’t even the nads to show up at an inquiry and asks mom to write an excuse, and they still send boys and girls to die.
Who is the greater fool?
And I can recite fool me once, fool me twice without making a fool of myself.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
How many backward, simple minded, uneducated Mujadhin did you kill today Soldier? Ya did a good job Denny..Your government says so.
Once upon a time they said, don’t bitch at me about how many times you have had to take that stupid hill, just tell me about the body count then shut the f up.
We are the Soldiers in the Army of greed.
It’s up to you if you choose to be a Soldier in the Army of deceit. A Soldier waiting for the scraps from the table. I understand that, and I don’t condemn you.
Garth Turner says pretty things too. But I can’t see into his soul, so I don’t know if he is telling the truth or not. If I had an hour face to face, I could. Just him and me. That is my one true gift.
Barring that, I commend him, and I defend him elsewhere. Although I criticize him here sometimes. I am a hard sell, because I have lived so much and so long and have experienced so much. Sometimes it makes me wise. Sometimes it makes me bitter.
It’s the bitter I taste when people who have no clue what it is to come face to face with an uneducated individual and they command you to kill them. And their Children too, that I have a problem with.
As time passed I came upon a gem of wisdom that I so sorely wish I had heard before I accepted their word as truth.
The Russians Love Their Children too.
Comrade Okie
Williams
Updated Sun. May. 4 2008 1:45 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams says the federal government should do more to help Ontario and Quebec’s struggling manufacturing sectors.
“The broad shoulders of Ontario have carried this country for a long, long time,” Williams told CTV’s Question Period on Sunday.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080504/ont_economy_080504/20080504?hub=Canada
The BIG QUESTION to me is ‘From whence we came?’ Where did we get today’s economic/social theories? My research, decades of it now, shows that it goes back to very ancient times, but to communicate those threads of reality is far beyond a blog entry. Each must take upon themself the task of research to grasp the truth of Solomon’s wisdom ‘There is nothing new under the sun!’
For Canada, we really need not look back further than our British Roots. John Ralston Saul explains the developmental history behind the economic vs. sociological course that has been tried.
Here is a synopsis of what has transpired, and why we should NOT be repeating the same mistakes again, and again. Likewise, it seems too many of our modern day politicians are ignorant of this history, yet it is readily available to them, and from a very authroitative source, our own former GG’s husband in ‘The Collapse of Globalism, and the Reinvention of the World.’. I cite from pages 40-45.
The discussion regards Free Trade versus the nation-state rule, and how it was transformed into a literal religion (meaning to bind without question) in our not too distant history.
This applies to Global Warming, NAFTA, carbon taxation, and above all to our imminent future as a civilized society. We begin by looking at the pre-WWI competition between England and Germany.
Please excuse the length, but to leave out important pojnts would be to do what has been going on in our universities in teaching economics. It this lack of completeness that has fostered the theories to which Harper (a university educated so-called economist, but without real world experiential knowledge, and Jim Flaherty, along with the Bush crowd, has been taught). Likewise, the mantra has been spread without rebuttal far and wide. It is the crux of all we are seeing happening today.
[In 1981, with an almost endearing lack of historical memory, Margaret Thatcher stood up in Bombay to lecture Indians about free trade: "May I just say a word about international trade because in a way one of the great contributions that we in Britain try to make to international prosperity is to keep our markets open, and to persuade other countries to keep their markets open." It would be nice to think of the audience, sitting there with 250-year-old fixed ironic smiles.
Mrs. Thatcher's tone was a typical product of the sort of economic religious belief that arose from the middle of the nineteenth century on. But it was also a reminder that there are a limited number of economic ideas. So they keep coming back.
Each return, if sensibly handled, lasts only so long as it is useful, and blends into the next fashion, thus consolidating any progress made. Unfortunately, most are not handled sensibly. So they create an economic and social imbalance. And they drag on, outliving their welcome and in the process damaging their real accomplishments, if not provoking an indiscriminate erasing of everything that has been accomplished, good and bad.
In the case of modern free trade, it began with a confusion of religious beliefs - both Protestant and economic - among the leaders of the movement, Richard Cobden and John Bright. Upon their first great victory - the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846 - nine thousand people crowded into Manchester's Free Trade Hall to hear Cobden. "[H]aving the feeling I have of the sacredness of the principle, I say that I can never agree to tamper with it.” What did he mean by the sacred nature of free trade?
Cobden, 1843, in the House of Commons: “Our object is to make you
conform to truth.”
Bright, 1845, in the House: “[I speak on behalf of those people] into whose hearts free trade principles have sunk, and become, verily, a religious question.”
Cobden in 1846 explained that the buy-cheap, sell-expensive principle was not about selfishness, but was a matter of “carrying out tothe fullest extent the Christian doctrine of ‘Do ye to all men as ye would they should do unto you’.”
Cobden, 1845: “I believe we are at an era which in importance, socially, has not its equal for the last 1800 years.” “[W] e have a principle established now which is eternal in its truth and universal in its application, and must be applied in all nations and throughout all times, and applied not simply to commerce, but to every item of the tariffs of the world.”
Cobden, 1843: “[A law which prevents free trade is a] law which interferes with the wisdom of the Divine Providence, and substitutes the law of wicked men for the law of nature.”
These are the deep, now largely unconscious, foundations of today’s free trade movement. If you wanted to be unkind you would simply cite Flaubert’s cynical observation: “When people no longer believe in the Immaculate Conception, they will believe in turning tables.” There is a resemblance to the ex cathedra declaration of the 17th Ecumenical Council of 1447: people, not within the one faith-whether Jew, heretic, schismatic or pagan – “cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart ‘into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt 25:41).”]
Now, let’s move to the present for comparison.
[Unfortunately they were wrong. Parallel with the growth of unregulated and untaxed international commerce in the second half of the nineteenth century came a growth in war; wars on the continent, wars around the world, all culminating in a disastrous world war. This is strangely similar to the evolution of the last quarter-century.
Along with these wars came another parallel growth - that of nationalism. Some of the implications were positive - democracy, for example, and regulations designed to support the public good. Neither had been high on the free trader's agenda. After all, the pro-democracy Chartist movement arose in Britain at exactly the same time as the free trader Anti-Corn Law League. The Chartists wanted precisely the democratic rules that Western democracies all have today. The free traders were not supportive. The Chartists were gradually marginalized, which pushed them into violence. Many were arrested, tried and deported. As for industrial regulations, the free traders - and specifically Cobden and Bright - were against both unions and legislation regulating work conditions. They were for high wages and well-run factories, providing the owners made those decisions. Dissatisfied workers should emigrate.
There is an interesting contemporary parallel here with the question of work conditions in developing countries. Today those workers play exactly the role played by the Western working class in the nineteeth and early twentieth centuries. Then as now the standard argument was that any attempt to regulate the workplace would damage the market and hurt the workers. Employment was their opportunity to better themselves. If do-gooders were allowed to interfere, the market would go elsewhere.
Tied to these nineteenth-century attitudes was the gradual conversion of machine-age theory into management theory, best known as Taylorism or Fordism or time-movement management. What it meant was the intentional confusing of men with machines.
When you put all of this together you can see why the free traders, lost in a religious conviction that they were going down the only possible road to progress, missed how social policies and regulations might have helped their cause, missed the great advancing political force of the working class, scarcely noticed the rise of populism, socialism, communism, false populism, fascism, all rolling up behind them. They even missed the simultaneous rise and formalization of modern racism. The accumulation of these forces couldn't help but catch free trade up in its dynamism and dash it on the rocks of nationalism.]
A very important bit of histopry to consider.
[There is one free trade issue that is rarely mentioned in the context of Cobden and the great movement. During the eighteenth century, the British, followed by the French and the Americans, wanted to buy produce these goods, or at any rate could not match the Chinese level of excellence. The problem was that the Chinese didn't want any Western goods. There being no two-way trade, the West had to pay cash. The British used silver they received in trade with Spain. In 1781 there was no silver, so Warren Hastings, the first governor-general of India, sent off Indian opium to be sold in China to pay for British imports. This eventually led to two Opium Wars in which the West - pretending to be at war over the treatment of their traders - fought China to force the country to go on importing opium, thus addicting its citizens. By 1830 this trade was probably the largest single commodity business in the world. The same House of Commons, so enthusiastic about the moral virtues of free trade, defeated motions to ban the opium trade in 1870, 1875, 1886 and 1889. The trade ended in 1913 as part of the windingdown of the first free trade experiment.
Put bluntly, Britain in particular and the West in general asked themselves whether the moral principle of fair trade trumped the well-being of a people. They answered that it did.]
and the present situation we are witnessing:
[That is a question valid for all time; even if we refuse to raise it at appropriate moments, history will, when the time comes to describe our actions for future generations. In what possible context could a question relevant to the opium trade be raised today? What about the pharmaceuticals essential to combat AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis in the developing world and the way in which their prices are artificially kept high by the Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) regime in the WTO? Or what about Western industrial agriculture and its effect on fragile societies? Or the destructive effect of unregulated financial markets on weaker economies?]
adn where are we today regarding the old beliefs?
[What you discover in all of these patterns are two different types of conviction. The first is economic internationalism, most clearly expressed as free trade. This is the formal belief, but its minimalist clarity has a Protestant, even Pentecostal, feel about it. Here is a cause that good, straightforward men can embrace and preach.
The second conviction is more diffuse, perhaps an outcome of the first. It is all about what goes without saying. This is the conviction that among sophisticated, worldly people certain things should be taken for granted. You shouldn't need to preach them. Thus, in the context of economic internationalism, governments will be more constricted; regulations of a local sort less likely; regulation in general less likely; formal particularities tied to local conditions less frequent. These outcomes are meant to indicate sophistication, related not primarily to belief but simply to administrative practices.Belief is all very well, but a church must be run.
Imagine how difficult it must have been, first in 1914 and then through the troubled '20s to the broad collapse of 1929, for such a fervent and well-organized group of believers as the free traders to accept their multiple defeats. How could they accept as revelation that they did not speak for a divine force?]
We are being led by a religiously based belief, but all the evidence indicates that belief is WRONG! The separation of so-called ‘Church and State’ takes on an entirely new meaning when we compare economics over human quality of life as being ‘divinely inspired. It, obviously to thinking people, IS NOT! Therein, lies the difference between the three parties, and includes the concepts of the BLOC as well.
This is the CHANGE we must embrace…to see people as the primary purpose, not a mere factor in our economic pursuits. It is the basis of the Green Party’s motto ‘A good idea is a good idea, regardless of where it comes from!’ each Party has some good ideas, but that is not what we are getting. Instead we have a Battle Royale for unchallenged power based on a set of principles narrowly and myoptically viewed as the Ultimate Truth. Garth represents, to me and others, that rare balance between true democracy, and imperial Rule. Harper, and his followers do not even question their beliefs, neither does Bush. They do so to OUR demise as a civilized society and nation of PEOPLE.
It is about people, our sustainable environment, and economic stability, and the future of those here now, and to be born. Shall we give the helm opver, again, to the same ones who have driven the Good Ship Society upon the rocks, or shall we commence to truly move forward into a future based on respect for history, and the avoidance of the same perils we have endured for far too long.
What say you should be the course of Canada and Canadians?
Garth, don’t know if you would know the answer to this… honestly, I’ve tried and come up short trying to find the answer.
What happens in relation to Stephan Dions leadership debt when the 18 months is up?
I tried finding the answer on the Government website, but the Election Act doesn’t really seem to go into anything. Could you assist?
I know I’ve hit you with a few broadsides in the past, but I’m not trying to be an ass here. I’m honestly interested. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it happen before, and it appears it will.
Again, I’m not trolling, this could happen to any leader, and in fairness to Dion he’s busy trying to run a party, so I can see how personal fund raising could be derailed, so for those in the audience spare me the peanut gallery comments… I’m just curious.
By Harry S on 05.03.08 9:49 pm
“2. The impression is that the Liberals want to get back to power for the sake of power. What do you see of the Liberals that would contradict this accusation?”
Brilliant point. This would be true of every single party that has run anywhere at any time in any country since the advent of democracy.
Garth:
Attended the Battle of Atlantic services at Point Pleasant Park Halifax on very rare sunny day, and I mean rare. All was going fine until we came to sing the Naval Hymn (Internal Father Strong to Save) it was amended to included the Army and Air Force, what are we coming to? this on top of dropping the last line of the Naval Prayer (through Jesus Christ our Lord. having said that it was nice when a young passed me en route as I walked to the site in the park and said Thank You as I was in my vet suit with medals. So on this day I say Thank You Garth for standing tall in the ever maddening world of Canadian politics.
Harry The Liar, do us all favour and F-Off you little boot licking CPC Harper Bot. You are a waste of Garth bandwidth
By Zorpheous on 05.03.08 11:14 pm
…………………………………
I shall happily help you sharpen your knife to commit political hara kiri after Dion resigns as Liberal leader this summer. Would you care to perform the ceremony here or on your spelling-challenged blog..??!!!
The only part of this post that would fit Mr. Turner is “narcissism”
Integrity give me a friggin break.
By Brian Wilson on 05.03.08 11:36 pm
And…
TWO WORDS SUM UP GARTH AND HIS ATTITUDE.
SELF SERVING.
By david on 05.04.08 9:12 am
So, Brian, you must be one of those who believes political integrity stops at “you were elected as a Conservative, so thats where you should stay?”
Wrong, integrity means running for office, regardless of party, and sticking to what you campaigned on. When the party you assumed (yes Garth, PMSH made an ass of you, me and everyone else) believed in that platform goes a different way, integrity means continuing to voice the
opinion that they have lost their integrity, even if it means the boot from caucus. Score Garth 1, CPC MP’s 0.
And David self serving, depends on the timeline. In the short term, all the CPC MP’s are being self serving because they don’t want to incur the wrath of the PMO and the loss of financial backing from the CPC death star come the next election. Hence they have become puppets to the almighty Harper.
Certainly Garth’s actions are self serving, because he knows that the only thing that matters come the election are the people he represents, and what better way to be self serving than to be the voice for his constituants.
For those keeping count, that’s Garth 2, CPC MP’s 0.
Hey Bill, Do they teach “Hummor 101? in the Marine Corp.?
You must have graduated “Suma-Cume-Laud”.
(I am not sure how that should be spelled, I never took Latin. They are as dead as the Neo-Cons will be after the election.)
By A.R.Wainwright on 05.04.08 1:08 pm
‘We in the Marines have no sense of humour we are aware of!’ LOL Seriously, I could have graduated Semper cum O’Lordy. One must have a great sense of humour to endure Marine training.
Despite all the discipline, the Drill Instructors use satirical humour to teach, and they are truly Masters at doing so. Boots caught looking at the aircraft taking off or landing are required to go chase the aircraft and bring it back to the D.I..
Likewise, one gets to have a totally new understanding of sheep. Never call a D.I. ‘You!’ His response will be ‘You? YOU? Do I look like s heep? Do I have horns like a sheep? What am I?’ The response had better be ‘Sir, a Drill Instructor, SIR!’
Likewise, having your bed torn to shreds, sand poured all over it, together with everyone else’s, and then given 10 minutes to clean the mess up is rather humourous…after you graduate. The old story about being able to bounce a quarter of everyone’s rack is not fantasy. It is TRUE!
Then the ultimate humour training is the often unidentifiable stuff they serve you and claim is food!
My personal favourite was on graduation day from Boot Camp (aka Hell on Earth). A Major, who looked like the Marine Corps Mascot, an English Bulldog, stopped at the Marine in front of me, looked down, and said ‘What did your shine your boots with Marine…A BRICK?’
But please, don’t tell anyone. We have a rep to maintain you know! LOL
Catherine, Harry S, et al – do you believe it is the responsibility that the prime minister of Canada should be representing “all” Canadians, should care about “all” Canadians and do his best for “all” Canadians?
Food crisis is silent tsunami – UN envoy
Saturday, 3 May 2008 15:14
The new United Nations Food envoy, Olivier De Schutter, has described food shortages affecting 100m people as a ’silent tsunami’.
Protests, strikes and riots have erupted in developing countries around the world after big rises in the prices of wheat, rice, corn, oils and other essential foods that have made it difficult for poor people to make ends meet.
Mr De Schutter criticised the concentration of economic power in the hands of a few large multinational companies that provide seeds and fertiliser, process food and distribute it.
He said he wanted curbs on investors speculating on raw materials and said it was time for a radical re-think on biofuels.
The confused response from Dean Del Mastro the Conservative M.P. said in the Peterborough Examiner May 3, 2008:
“I understand there has been a significant spike in the price of rice, but rice is not used in any means for the production of biofuels,” Del Mastro said.
“The spike in price is completely unrelated.”
Dean, you win my Conservative member quote of the week for absolute balderdash!
I was willing to support Mr. Dion right up until Friday, May 2, 2008. On that day, he announced that if the Liberals win the next election, he’ll propose a carbon tax for Canada.
And from the April 17 National Post: ‘Mr. Dion expressed his enthusiasm for such a measure in a speech in Vancouver last month, where he praised the British Columbia government’s pioneering levy on fossil fuels. “We need to put a price on carbon. This must be done. I am telling you it will be done if we are elected,” he said.’
So what’s wrong with this proposed carbon tax? Nothing per se. Our respective provincial governments and the federal government continuously track our ability to pay taxes. They will continue to extract as much tax as they feel they can impose on us, without actually crossing that ‘magic line’ at which we’ll ‘take to the streets in protest’. What the taxes are called, where they come from (income tax, sales tax, GST, etc.), how they are ‘dressed up’, is simply semantics.
So the ‘big deal’ about his May 2 pronouncement? It confirms that Mr. Dion is a ‘one issue wonder’.
OK, the environment is important, but should it ‘trump’ everything else? There is increasing backlash from the scientific community, that “Global Warming” is neither as severe as predicted nor wholly man caused. Just in the past week, there have been articles by scientists saying that we are about to enter a decade of global cooling, and another stating that sun spot activity has abated, and coincidentally, so has global warming. No one has the faintest idea of what the hell is going on. I sure don’t. There are thousands of sites making the case that man-caused global warming is flawed science – one quite eloquent, by Michael Crighton here: http://www.michaelcrichton.com/speech-ourenvironmentalfuture.html.
Two quotes from Mark Twain who I’ll bet would have scoffed at the modern scientific community; “There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” And “I’ve seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it never came to pass.”
During a month when learn that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable and unendable and is costing us billions; during a week that our defense minister blasts the Canadian Armed Forces for daring to suggest ways to end the war; during a period when Canada is facing a recession — when the editor of this board is ‘promising’ a country wide real estate meltdown of biblical proportions; during a week that Conservative Party offices have been raided by the RCMP, and the Government party appears guilty of violations of the election act and possibly of income tax evasion; during all of this, what is apparently foremost in Mr. Dion’s mind? What does he choose to discuss in disregard to all the crises we’re facing? A carbon tax! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…..!
But please, don’t tell anyone. We have a rep to maintain you know! LOL
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 3:02 pm
…. as he slinks in his Muskoka swamp and emerging to behave like a monkey hurling it’s feces trying to smear Canada’s Prime Minister with posts riddled with as many random insults and moronic comments he can come up with, while professing to be a “U.S. Marine”.
Recently he has regressed into a pusillanimous, pedantic old fart hectoring Canadians on how they should think … Liberal-like ….
You, sir .. are an unadulterated pos …
By Greg on 05.04.08 2:05 pm
Sadly, only too true mon ami!
As Saul goes on to say ‘It is the disembodied version of ‘Onward Christian Soldiers‘ sung by those who’s purpose has been changed from the honourable act of national defense, to that of Imperial Warrior, sent to take that which their leadership demands illegally.
I think The Eagles captured the point in ‘The Long road Out of Eden’
Long Road Out Of Eden lyrics
Moon shining down through the palms
Shadows moving on the sand
Somebody whispering the twenty-third psalm
Dusty rifle in his trembling hands
Somebody trying just to stay alive
He got promises to keep
Over the ocean in america
Far away and fast asleep
Silent stars blinking in the blackness of an endless sky
Cold silver satellites, ghostly caravans passing by
Galaxies unfolding, new worlds being born
Pilgrims and prodigals creeping toward the dawn
But it’s a long road out of eden
Music blasting from an suv
On a bright and sunny day
Rolling down the interstate
In the good ol’ usa
Having lunch at the petroleum club
Smokin’ fine cigars and swappin’ lives
He said: “gimme ‘nother slice o’ that barbecued brisket!”
“gimme ‘nother piece o’ that pecan pie!”
Freeways flickering, cell phones chiming a tune
We’re riding to utopia, road map says we’ll be arriving soon
Captains of the old order clinging to the reins
Assuring us these aches inside are only growing pains
But it’s a long road out of eden
Back home i was so certain
The path was very clear
But now i have to wonder: “what are we doing here?”
I’m not counting on tomorrow
And i can’t tell wrong from right
But I’d give anything to be there in your arms tonight
Weaving down the American highway
Through the litter and the wreckage and the cultural junk
Bloated with entitlement, loaded on propaganda
And now we’re driving dazed and drunk
Been down the road to damascus,
The road to mandalay
Met the ghost of caesar on the appian way
He said, “it’s hard to stop this bingeing, once you get a taste.”
“but the road to empire is a bloody stupid waste.”
Behold the bitten apple – the power of the tools
But all the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools
And it’s a long road out of eden….
I shall happily help you sharpen your knife to commit political hara kiri after Dion resigns as Liberal leader this summer. Would you care to perform the ceremony here or on your spelling-challenged blog..??!!!
By Harry S on 05.04.08 2:35 pm
You are still a Liar Harry, and an idiot.
Bill-Muskoka 2:14pm
Awesome post! You proved the saying that if you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it. Up here where we are finally, after a hundred years giving up the gold rush as the be all and end all of of local “knowlege” I have another saying. If you live in your history you are doomed to repeat its mistakes until you are wlling to let it go.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 3:34 pm
Still jealous, eh Maggot? LMAO at YOU SFB!
Remember Hairy, some day we will meet, and you can say it to my FACE…if you have the balls.
Now, go back and play your video game where you think you’re a hero.
I was watching Duffy today and something hit me as I listened to Danny Williams and then the comments of the journalists.
How many people from Ontario know what a “dry” sense of humour is all about? Danny Williams is poking fun at Ontario by giving back some of the words that Ontario has thrown down this way for years such as “weaker sisters.” It is like the saying down here that charcterized central Canadian hypocrisy: federal money going into Ontario is an investment but going into Atlantic Canada is welfare.
Most of the Ontario media and Ontario politicians don’t get it because they are so accustomed to downgrading and sneering at others that they do not see their own hypocrisy and the humour in the situation.
The humour is not in the fact that Ontario is struggling economically but that that people like McGuinty, Gloria Galloway, and Jim Travers cannot see how parochial they really are. These people are not “true” Canadians, as they have always tried to convince the country, but stiff-necked Ontario provincialists.
I wonder if they have the capacity to see themselves as others see them?
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 3:31 pm
Michael Crichton has NO credibility whatsoever on climate changeor Global Warming issues. He is a fiction author, not a climatologist, and has been exposed as a basic whore by scientists. He was working with a Pro-Oil Senator.
His so-called ‘expert’ testimony (should be called testicular moaning) before the U.S. Senate revealed he knows nothing but the rhetoric and has zero credentials to speak as an expert on climate change.
In fact, he had to shut down the topic on his website because he was overwhelmed with factual rebuttal that made him a laughing stock to his peers in science.
He has NO CRED left at this point, except to the deniers of mankind’s responsibility of stewardship of this, our only planet. They will grasp at anything to support their profits.
Hello Leasa, lets talk about farmers, and the salt of the earth people.
Those who feel the land, and truely do care about the land and what we leave for the Children.
What do you say old girl? Hands across the water??
The Old Comrade.
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 3:31 pm
… what is apparently foremost in Mr. Dion’s mind? What does he choose to discuss in disregard to all the crises we’re facing? A carbon tax! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…..!
……………………………….
Disregard Dion .. he’s a dunce ..!!!
I urge you to support and vote Conservative in any next election and hopefully give them a majority government so they will be able to cleanse the central government of it’s devious Liberal elements embedded deep into the civil service.
Harper will cut back the liberalized, socialized, criminalized Ottawa establishment and all it’s social engineering tentacles that has choked the SINGLE CANADIAN TAXPAYER with over-taxation and no value for money ….!!!!
By Dube on 05.04.08 1:28 pm
Here you go Dube
Local News
Campaign shuffle
Money in, money out, rebates collected
Mia Rabson &Dan Lett
Updated: May 3 at 12:30 AM CDT
Elections Canada is continuing an investigation into an alleged Conservative plot to conceal advertising expenses. NDP MP Pat Martin wrote to the commissioner of elections Friday asking the federal agency to expand its probe to include Tory candidates who transferred money to the federal party for polling.
Martin said the way the funds are flowing is eerily reminiscent of the scheme Elections Canada flagged last year involving advertising expenses.
“This is identical in structure to the advertising,” said Martin. “This could be a whole second tier of scamming.”
A Free Press review of Conservative expense claims turned up 50 Tory candidates who sent a total of $854,000 to the national Conservative campaign under the category of “Election surveys or other surveys and research.”
In all but two of the campaigns, the amounts transferred were either $15,000 or $20,000.
Sixteen campaigns saw “in-and-out” transactions, where money was paid to the central campaign, and then returned to the local campaign or where the central campaign paid money to the local campaigns and then it was returned to central.
In the other 34 campaigns, the transaction only involved a local campaign paying the national campaign. In many, the transactions occurred weeks, even months, after the election was over.
Two Manitoba MPs were among those who paid the national campaign for polling: Steven Fletcher (Charleswood St. James Assiniboia) and James Bezan (Selkirk-Interlake).
Winnipeg Liberal MP Anita Neville said this appears to be another example of the Tories skirting the rules at every turn.
“Any time there is a gray area at all, they move in,” said Neville. “If it’s not explicitly spelled out that you cannot do it, they do it.”
Martin said he is concerned that some of the transactions took place well after the election was decided. Although candidates have four months to close the books on their campaign expenses, it is unusual to see large transactions like this done after the election, he added.
Intensive polling is not routinely done at the local campaign level in federal elections because of the cost and because less expensive alternatives, such as voter identification phone banks, are available. And because, on average, campaigns are capped at about $80,000, a $20,000 expense represents an inordinate share of overall spending.
Martin said that $15,000-$20,000 for a poll in a single riding is an enormous amount of money for polling.
“The maximum for a poll in my riding is $6,000,” he said.
Neville said there is no question $15,000 or $20,000 for polling in a single riding is outrageous.
“We’ve had quotes which on the low end were about $4,000 and on the high end were $12,000,” said Neville.
The federal election watchdog would not confirm receipt of a complaint regarding the polling expenses, but a spokesman for the agency said that is because it cannot confirm nor deny an investigation until it progresses to the next level.
John Enright said the commissioner of elections must follow up every complaint he receives. But the public is only informed if the investigation proceeds to further action, such as a court case or an agreement with the party involved in the complaint.
Individual candidates who get more than 10 per cent of the vote in their ridings are eligible for a rebate from Elections Canada of 60 per cent of their approved election expenses. They have to file their returns within four months of election day but can file an amended return at any time.
Political parties which achieve two per cent of the popular vote nationally are eligible for a rebate of 50 per cent of their election expenses.
There were 884 candidates who ran in 2006 who achieved the 10 per cent threshold. Elections Canada has now processed all but 26 of those returns.
Fletcher, who was defending his riding against Liberal star candidate John Loewen, said his claim for $20,000 in polling was completely legitimate within election financing rules. “Let me say that transfers between national and local campaigns happen in all parties and is within the rules and guidelines of the Elections Act,” Fletcher said. “All of my expenditures are listed online and have been approved by Elections Canada.”
Fletcher’s official election expense filing shows his campaign sent $20,000 to the national Conservative campaign for polling on December 13, 2005. As an eligible expense, it created a $12,000 rebate for Fletcher’s campaign.
However, that same sum of money was transferred back from the national campaign to Fletcher’s campaign account just 12 days later, on December 23.
In an earlier email exchange, Fletcher said the initial payment to the central campaign was for “services rendered” during the campaign. Fletcher said the subsequent payment from the central campaign to his local account was not a repayment of the original $20,000, but actually a transfer of money from his riding association.
Many riding associations maintain accounts holding money raised between elections and surpluses from previous campaigns. When a new writ is dropped, the riding associations transfer money to the candidate’s campaign account.
In Fletcher’s case, the Charleswood St. James Assiniboia riding association did make a $28,320.84 transfer to the central campaign account on December 6, 2005. On December 8, the exact same amount was transferred back to Fletcher’s campaign account.
However, the riding association did not make an additional $20,000 transfer, as Fletcher suggested.
The polling expense issue could add more fuel to a fiery relationship between Elections Canada and the Conservative Party.
Elections Canada last rejected advertising expense claims by 67 Conservative candidates it felt were being used in a scheme to hide national advertising costs. The election watchdog has alleged the candidates agreed to receive cash transfers from the national campaign, only to send it back within a matter of days or weeks.
Elections Canada alleged the so-called “in-and-out” scheme allowed the national Tory campaign, which had already reached its $18-million spending limit on advertising, to charge $1.1 million of its advertising costs to the local campaigns. Elections Canada also alleged this allowed candidates to claim for expenses not actually incurred to obtain more than $700,000 in rebates they were not entitled to receive.
Elections Canada alleged the scheme allowed the party to hide $1.1 million in advertising costs, while providing $700,000 in undeserved rebates.
The Conservatives took Elections Canada to court to contest interpretation of spending rules. However, last month, Elections Canada obtained a search warrant and raised federal Tory headquarters in Ottawa. In the information to obtain the warrant, Chief Electoral Officer William Corbett alleged the Tories had filed misleading expense reports to the agency.
dan.lett@freepress.mb.ca
mia.rabson@freepress.mb.ca
This joke is very clear that, apart from making up the numbers up here, men, in general, aren’t worth worth much, if anything at all!
****************************************
CARDBOARD MEN
A car gets a flat on the interstate one day. The blonde driver eases it over onto the shoulder of the road, carefully steps out of the car and opens the trunk.
She takes out two cardboard men, unfolds them and stands them at the rear of the vehicle facing oncoming traffic.
The lifelike cardboard men are in trench coats exposing their nude bodies and private parts to approaching drivers.
Not surprisingly, the traffic becomes snarled and backed up.
It isn’t very long before a police car arrives. The officer, clearly enraged, approaches the blonde of the disabled vehicle yelling, ‘What’s going on here?’
‘My car broke down, officer’ says the woman calmly.
‘Well, what the hell are these obscene cardboard pictures doing here by the road?’ he asks.
‘Helllooooooo!!!!’ says the blonde. ‘Those are my emergency flashers!’
****************************************
After lunch today, we ended up shopping at Superstore, and it was curious to see some items were sold out, and the shelves had not been restocked — normally they are very efficient.
SStore has changed their open / close time from 7-11 all week, and it appears a lot of shoppers are there first thing in the morning now. Portent of what lies ahead?
A commercial on a radio station this p.m. said anyone who buys a new home in one Okanagan development gets a free BMW.
Are sales going well or crawling along? No idea, but if we were in the market, we wouldn’t waste our money on a new home, as it has the GST which can run upwards of $20 Grand.
Rather, we would buy second-hand, a few years old and no GST at all.
After doing basic research, I have to conclude that FlatulentFairyHairyHarry, who continues to ramble on and on and on, making pointless posts about nothing — look at the signings — was a forerunner of the now-extinct dinosaurs, except hairy hasn’t extincted or evolved yet.
Nevermind. There’s always the next life, when he / she / it can come back as a puddle of liquid!
Bill Muskoka:
You are a wind bag! Please have mercy on us.
I urge you to support and vote Conservative in any next election and hopefully give them a majority government so they will be able to cleanse the central government of it’s devious Liberal elements embedded deep into the civil service.
Harper will cut back the liberalized, socialized, criminalized Ottawa establishment and all it’s social engineering tentacles that has choked the SINGLE CANADIAN TAXPAYER with over-taxation and no value for money ….!!!!
By Harry S on 05.04.08 4:37 pm
And that load “THUD” sound was Harry falling off the CPC Turnip Truck,…. it’s a short truck too, painted yellow,…
RUN HARRY RUN,… maybe you can catch up with the turnip truck and get back on,…
By William Dahl on 05.04.08 3:43 pm
Thank you for the credo, but I have merely communicated the very AWESOME work of John Ralston Saul.
He has totally described the origins and causes of the Globalist movement, and defined precisely why it has failed. Note: HAS failed, not will fail.
He is a rare author, and his experiential knowledge of political science and economics is even rarer. His wife, our former GG, certainly has helped him to write such a thorough opus on, what I consider the most critical issue of our day. I call it that because it covers all we deal with in our politics, law making, trade negotiations, growth as a nation and people, and the dire need for understanding of what the game is, how it is being played, and ‘WHY?’.
Jared Diamond explains the good and bad choices societies make to succeed or fail in his excellent book ‘Collapse: How Societies Choose to Succeed or Fail’ His book is far dryer reading than Saul’s but his examination for Haiti and the Domican Republic clearly is comprehensible to anyone willing to read it. That is just one of many exemplars he utilizes to illustrate how societies make good and bad choices.
These two authors deserve the Nobel Prize for Humanity. Hopefully, people will take the time to read both these books. They are non-fiction, but are written so clearly anyone can grasp the truths they bring forth.
Thanks again.
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 3:31 pm
Global Warming Sceptic
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 4:03 pm (Response – Be Happy)
Vicguy
Let’s just say for the sake of argument that Climate Change is an urban myth and assume weather will reflect that data in the next ten years.
Now, energy is very costly especially at the pump and heating our homes. I trust you admit that?
I cannot find any reputable economist that says those energy costs will go down in the next ten years.
Would you agree we need energy alternatives and a conservation strategy or do you want your Mum or your neighbour sitting in the dark because she/he can’t afford to heat or light their condo?
Can we really afford to allow international speculative markets to dictate to the middle class that they should shrink to absorb the maximum shareholder return on energy stocks?
So my challenge to you would be – as much as I love Mr. Crichton’s fiction books, I don’t think his arguments address the future shock of no conservation and no alternative energy solutions and while entertaining are not relevant.
To: Bill-Maggot & Zorff The Zygote
Fm: Harry W (the True Canadian)
Re: The New Order
Yeah, sure, Bill-M, show the blog what a great warrior you are NOT, you dishonourable pos. You never served in the armed forces, and you are too cowardly to even answer a simple question .. Will Ignatieff be the next Liberal leader very very soon??!!!
I dare you .. bring it on you pissant pusillanimous pos.
As for Z .. he can draw pictures, but he certainly can’t spell worth a sh!t .. which reveals his adolescent state of mind..!!!
Both of you wankers are not worth spit, and when Harper wins his majority government as he surely will … I will look forward to applying the coupe de grace to your miserable carcasses …!!!
You are a wind bag! Please have mercy on us.
By MJH on 05.04.08 5:02 pm
Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing to read what I post? No? Then No MERCY will be given.
Whatsamatta? You don’t like facts, and want everyone to be stuck in the darkness like the mushrooms that love PMSH?
By Zorpheous on 05.04.08 5:09 pm
Now we know, what we all knew, but for sure. Hairy is SINGLE. What a surpise, eh? LMAO!
By MJH on 05.04.08 5:02 pm
Bill Muskoka:
You are a wind bag! Please have mercy on us.
…………………………………
You got that right ….!!!!!!!!!!!!
The old fart bag is verging on age dementia with his verbatim quotes from Ralston and other anti-Canadian deviates .. all because he knows Canada is happily heading to a majority Harper government .. and the Liberals are running around like a chicken without it’s head .. cluck cluck clunk … LOL
By Harry S on 05.04.08 4:37 pm
ANOTHER REASON NOT TO VOTE CPC!
By Harry S on 05.04.08 2:35 pm
YET ANOTHER REASON NOT TO VOTE CPC!
By MJH on 05.04.08 5:02 pm
OMG…another friend of Harry’s
Nevermind. There’s always the next life, when he / she / it can come back as a puddle of liquid!
By Charles Oxley on 05.04.08 4:43 pm
It already has…the Syncrude Sludge Pond.
What a bunch of rubbish.
If they didn’t kick you out of caucus you’d still be a member of the Conservative party and would probably be bashing Dion here daily. For you to claim that you are an idealist and not a partisan is flat out delusional.
Bite me. — Garth
This is your basic problem Harry, 90% of your posts contain insults, you somehow believe this makes you masculine, which you obviously have a problem with…
On the other hand, you are a creative writer, but never let the facts get in your way, you just pull off your little tirades of emotion probably because there is no one in your life.
If there is, you have probably so alienated them, they now remain silent.
I also suspect you are a coward, you would not dare make the comments you have on this blog in person I am sure you are a little man in all ways, especially emotionally.
Any real man would have some sense of compassion and fair play, which you obviously are lacking in spades. Now I realize Harry, that my “copy and paste” repetitive posts are annoying to you, however, where we differ is mine are based on fact and not the fiction you spew on here.
I do hope you continue with your creative garbage, you are the best advertisement for a vote against the CPC.
A person by the name of Greg said this the other day:
Shoosh!
Has anyone told you yet that you are disgustingly partisan?
You blather on incessantly with your mind control bullshit.
Please, be quiet and let people think for themselves.
BY GREG ON 05.01.08 5:02 PM
Is that an imposter “Greg” or the real Greg’s comment.
I’d like to know. Does anyone have any comment on this.
Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 4:03 pm
I often agree with your ramblings here Bill, but you’ve shattering my respect with your rather hysterical vitriolic rant about Dr. Creighton.
I find your accusations hard to believe – the guy is a multimillionaire thanks to being a prolific writer of top selling novels and the rights to the movies that followed. Why would he need to accept money from ‘big oil’ to back their cause? If you’d bothered to read his speech, he makes the point that we have to move away from oil and fossil fuels generally.
”In fact, he had to shut down the topic on his website because he was overwhelmed with factual rebuttal that made him a laughing stock to his peers in science.
Now Bill, this statement is either ignorant or outright fibbing. All you have to do is visit his site, and all his speeches and essays are all there. Good grief, man, don’t you check these things before making statements like that? I could not find any evidence online of him being ‘in bed’ with big oil – did you make that up too? Care to forward links with evidence?
”His so-called ‘expert’ testimony (should be called testicular moaning) before the U.S. Senate revealed he knows nothing but the rhetoric and has zero credentials to speak as an expert on climate change.
Gee, maybe I misread the article at NPR about an Oxford styled debate on the environment – two teams of three, debated the proposition was: “Global Warming Is Not a Crisis” in which Dr. Creighton participated. In a vote before the debate, about 30 percent of the audience agreed with the motion, while 57 percent were against and 13 percent undecided. The debate seemed to affect a number of people: Afterward, about 46 percent agreed with the motion, roughly 42 percent were opposed and about 12 percent were undecided. Read about it here, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9082151.
But being an ‘Oxford type’ audience, they were likely all in bed with ‘big oil’, eh Bill.
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in their campaign financing.
His chief of staff, most likely under instructions from Harper, tried to INTERFERE in another country’s election process.
NAFTAGATE: (Probably doing a favour for his idol Bushie)
He tried to SMEAR Liberal MP Bains in the House of Commons.
(The character of Stevie exposed, like the smear against Martin as favouring child pornography and Liberals supporting the Taliban)
He ran on having an ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT, then immediately appointed an unaccountable minister.
(Hiding Michael Fortier in the Senate, the same senate he opposed as unelected, then appointed Fortier)
HE SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT from the dishonest Liberal government, they are the same if not worse.
(too many scandals to get them on one post, Baird, Day etc. etc..)
He MUZZLES HIS MINISTERS and only allows them to talk in public after the content has been cleared with the PMO. Now he wants to muzzle all government offices by having them clear everything with the PMO before releasing information.
Then he has scraped the Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests to deny access to Canadians to millions of pages of once secret documents.
He BROKE HIS WORD on the Atlantic Accord.
He SENDS HIS SMALL MINDED FINANCE MINISTER out to pick a fight with Ontario, the same finance minister that left
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in th
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in their campaign financing.
His chief of staff, most likely under instructions from Harper, tried to INTERFERE in another country’s election process.
NAFTAGATE: (Probably doing a favour for his idol Bushie)
He tried to SMEAR Liberal MP Bains in the House of Commons.
(The character of Stevie exposed, like the smear against Martin as favouring child pornography and Liberals supporting the Taliban)
He ran on having an ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT, then immediately appointed an unaccountable minister.
(Hiding Michael Fortier in the Senate, the same senate he opposed as unelected, then appointed Fortier)
HE SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT from the dishonest Liberal government, they are the same if not worse.
(too many scandals to get them on one post, Baird, Day etc. etc..)
He MUZZLES HIS MINISTERS and only allows them to talk in public after the content has been cleared with the PMO. Now he wants to muzzle all government offices by having them clear everything with the PMO before releasing information.
Then he has scraped the Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests to deny access to Canadians to millions of pages of once secret documents.
He BROKE HIS WORD on the Atlantic Accord.
He SENDS HIS SMALL MINDED FINANCE MINISTER out to pick a fight with Ontario, the same finance minister that left Ontario with a $5.6 billion deficit and claimed it was balanced.
(Now we will have another problem with small minded Jim, if the
federal finances slip into deficit, will we know?)
And of course, Mr. Flaherty has problems with his untendered contracts….
Meanwhile the CPC is hell bent on TAKING AWAY ONTARIO’S representation based on population.
(Obviously the CPC is not interested in Ontario voters)
Remember that poor MILITARY WIDOW in the Maritimes that Harper promised she would get her pension, did she ever get it?
NOW we have the RCMP VISITING the CPC headquarters with a warrant? What illegal action has taken place?
COULD IT BE DEFRAUDING THE TAXPAYERS?
HIDES BEHIND PARLIAMENTARY PRIVLEDGE TO LIE ABOUT LIBERAL APPOINTMENTS!
Poor Stevie Harper…seems to be a DISHONEST & UNETHICAL leader!
Here Harry, a list of your great leader’s accomplishments
Garth on TVO:
http://www.tvo.org/TVOsites/WebObjects/TvoMicrosite.woa?allangregg
Garth Turner is a financial commentator and Member of Parliament. His new book is called Greater Fool: The Troubled Future of Real Estate.
Friday, May 09 – 10:00 PM
Probably available on podcast for the Ontario-deprived.
———
Talking to the Taliban: Peter McKay insists that Canada isn’t and never will. The British and the Dutch are and of course the Canadians (don’t tell McKay), as is everyone else in Afghanistan except the U.S. It has wide support among tribal leaders all over Afghanistan. But of course, Petey would never do anything so sensible. What a huge surprise.
——–
“Harm to the Fetus” Bill : women in Newfoundland are coming out against this in a big way, as will those in Quebec.
http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=131745&sc=79
Women know this has NOTHING to do with protecting them as it pretends to and everything to do with a sneaky return of banning legal abortions.
There are plenty of laws to deal with the perps of violence against women. They just need to be enforced.
The medical risks and the financial and social responsibilities of a single woman who is pregnant are taken pretty much by her alone. You never hear much opprobrium for the single fathers, or just as likely the married fathers (only not to the mothers) of these children, the guys for whom fatherhood ends at conception. More likely nudge-nudge, wink-wink, carve another notch in the bedpost.
It’s the business of the woman and her doctor – no one else.
———
Bush’s bad real estate deal in Paraguay:
This made me laugh. I remember reading that one of the Bush daughters was in Paraguay more that a year ago finalizing a land buy in Paraguay. Huge chunk of land situated next to property owned by the Reverend (yeah, right! not the adjective I’d use) Sun Myung Moon, and sitting on top of huge natural gas and fresh water reserves. It was fine when Paraguay was a right-wing dictatorship with no extradition treaty. Mengele and others like him found it a nice place to bolt to.
One small problem. Paraguay just had an election and the former (the best kind) Roman Catholic archbishop and populist Fernando Lugo was elected. They will ratify extradition treaties with other countries for war crimes.
Damn! I fully expected to see Bush bolting for the helicopter one second after the Presidential swearing in January. Or if he was smart, he’d leave the night before and chopper off to a waiting plane to take him south.
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff05032008.html
——-
On NORAD:
Leaving Cheyenne Mountain by William Astore
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080505/astore
I’ll leave the whole thing up to him to explain. He was there.
And wasn’t it a Canadian who was in charge at NORAD on September 11th? The U.S. never gave him much credit for that.
———
Now I know why Bill in Muskoka went incandescent when I dared criticize the Marines. Sorry, Bill. I didn’t realize you were a former jarhead. I met a lot of post-Vietnam U.S. military types who came to Montreal after the war as well as tons and tons of war resisters. One of the Marines had received a Purple Heart. He was a quiet-spoken musician – no bug-eye sunglasses, no cigar, no swagger.
Jim Lehrer of the PBS NewsHour had a story about his first days in the Corps. When he arrived, the drill sergeant (?) called his name and mispronounced it. Lehrer corrected him. The guy came up to him, stuck his face about an inch away from Lehrer’s and said, “If I say your name is (whatever), then your name is (whatever).”
His speech at the dedication of the Marine Museum was enough to make your heart break. He looks a wreck every time he has to see the names and faces of the latest crop of dead young people in Iraq on his newscast.
No swagger – just integrity and decency.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/stories/111606/trident_28025.shtml
—–
Sorry. Very wordy post. A weekend of things building up.
Jim Lehrer
—–
By David Bakody on 05.04.08 2:27 pm
“Attended the Battle of Atlantic services at Point Pleasant Park Halifax”.
Glad you made it, David. Thanks.
This is the memorial for my uncle, Gerald Smith, the only one I never met. He died before I was born. I heard that my grandmother took it really hard. My mother would have tears in her eyes to remember him until the day she died.
In Memory of
Stoker GERALD JOHN SMITH
V/54925, H.M.C.S. Shawinigan., Royal Canadian Navy Volunteer Reserve
who died age 20
on 24 November 1944
Son of William and Mary Smith, of Montreal, Province of Quebec.
Remembered with honour
HALIFAX MEMORIAL
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Me/My%20Documents/Gerald%20photo%20and%20cert/Certificate.htm
I saw how long the effects of a death in war last. That’s why I HATE IT. There is absolutely no excuse for an optional war. Get them out of Afghanistan NOW.
—–
As to his character Harry, very much like yours….a coward hding behing parliamentary privlege….much like you do on here…
Stevie hides behind parliamentary privilege:
SMEAR:
Harper said in the House:
We are putting in place a new selection system so we do not have what we had before like the member for Westmount Ville-Marie appointing her former husband as a member of the board, like the husband of the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine as a member of the board, and a number of members who were under serious allegations and criminal charges”
FACT:
THE TORONTO STAR REPORTED
If either (accusation) were true, it would represent a serious ethics breach, especially on Robillard’s part, since she was the minister responsible for the board.
In fact, Robillard’s ex-husband, Jacques Lasalle, was appointed to the board in 1990 when Brian Mulroney was prime minister, and Jennings’ husband, Luciano del Negro, joined the board in 1996, before his wife was first elected to the Commons in 1997.
By pjw on 05.04.08 5:54 pm
Quoting our host:
“Good post, Harry. – Garth”
(..NOT: “Good post, pjw.” – LOL)
Bugger off you cut & paste minor mindlet and let this fine forum elevate itself for what it is intended … erudite discussion on the topics posted by our MP Garth .. it’s his blog, and you nutbars who go off on tangents and start lifting text from books to ‘educate’ the readers … well that presumptuous and porcine too … !!!
Hey Billy-M .. it’s MP Garth’s blog so if you want to wax and wane about your pathetic life, go back to your dormant blog and post your sh!t there … pprrfftt…!!!
Long post, bad editing. for my last post.
Certificate for Gerald John Smith, my uncle.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2640854
As to his character Harry, very much like yours….a coward hding behing parliamentary privlege….much like you do on here…
Stevie hides behind parliamentary privilege:
SMEAR:
Harper said in the House:
We are putting in place a new selection system so we do not have what we had before like the member for Westmount Ville-Marie appointing
Bonnie N BC on 05.04.08 5:17 pm
Bonnie,
Re Creighton, Global warming, etc.
I agree with everything you’ve said. We absolutely have find ways to ween ourselves off oil — no arguement there. Creighton says so too, in his speech.
I don’t plan to become a defender of Dr. Creighton — there are many other scientist in the world who worry out loud that there is no proof that global warming is 100% man caused.
The point I was making in my original post, is that the environment is the only issue that seems to be of any significant interest to Mr. Dion. Maybe it is justified — maybe not. But it’s going to cost a fortune that we don’t have. Shouldn’t we know for sure before going down that road? Possibly there are a few other issues now of import that he should be talking about?
GARTH, why no answer to the question??
If you now support Lower income taxes,
a Drop in corporate taxes,
and a tax shift to Reduce the burden on families;
Then who is the tax burden being shifted to??
Answers in a few days. — Garth
Bakody,
it’s “Eternal Father…” not “Internal Father …”, you rotten fishhead!
Love the Navy Hymn, which I last sang at the funeral of a former Surgeon Lieutenant of HMCS Uganda a few years back. Also have the highest regard for the Senior Service, since you people do deal in hard realities, such as the sea, as opposed to the wishful thinking our other services fall prey to now and then.
Happy Battle of the Atlantic Sunday, David.
Just heard on the CBC that the database of access to information requests that have been filled is being squashed by the Harper government. The reason, inefficiency.
So now we will have the situation of a citizen making a request for information, that, because no database exists, the appropriate government body will have to readjudicate and ay yeah, or ney too!
What could be more inefficient than having to “reinvent the wheel” for every access request.
Of course, it would be an interesting experient for the requests for information that have already been provided, to be resubmitted to see if the government will provide that information.
Either way, this is definitely a step backwards in Mr. Harper’s campaign pledge for a more open and accountable government.
Promise made, promise broken!
Poor Delusion Harry thinking Garth was complimenting him..LMAO….oh Harry you are a fool!
No wonder you like Harper…Birds of a feather…I was wondering, do you have a criminal record?
The BIG QUESTION
BY BILL-MUSKOKA ON 05.04.08 2:14 PM
Bill – you are on fire today! Great synopsis. A keeper. I got a good laugh seeing you swatting gnatsies! Too funny.
~and~
BY GREG W., OAKVILLE ON 05.03.08 10:54 PM
The links you posted in the past are great. I’m still catching up. Much appreciated and it helpful to others if re-posted anytime. Many thanks.
I for one, really appreciate Garth, Esther and everyone’s great insights. And your good humour really helps too. If only the idiotic and malicious im-posters knew what was up, or had any clue what you guys were actually talking about. You all deserve a lot of respect and kudos. Again thanks.
Floorcrossing hypocrite!
By wilson on 05.04.08 1:09 am
Emerson?
Moses and Jesus were in a threesome playing golf one day. Moses pulled up to the tee and drove a long one. The ball landed in the fairway, but rolled directly toward a water hazard. Quickly Moses raised his club, the water parted and it rolled to the other side, safe and sound. Next, Jesus strolled up to the tee and hit a nice long one directly toward the same water hazard. It landed right in the centre of the pond and kind of hovered over the water. Jesus casually walked out on the pond and chipped the ball onto the green. The third guy got up and randomly whacked the ball. It headed out over the fence and into oncoming traffic on a nearby street. It bounced off a truck and hit a nearby tree. From there, it bounced onto the roof of a shack close by and rolled down into the gutter, down the drain spout, out onto the fairway and straight toward the aforementioned pond. On the way to the pond, the ball hit a stone and bounced out over the water onto a lily pad, where it rested quietly. Suddenly a very large bullfrog jumped up on a lily pad and snatched the ball into his mouth. Just then, an eagle swooped down and grabbed the frog and flew away. As they passed over the green, the frog squealed with fright and dropped the ball, which bounced right into the cup for a hole in one. Moses turned to Jesus and said, “Man, I hate playing with your Dad.”
By Randy Meyer on 05.04.08 10:10 am
So what has the Liberals actually done since January 2006 for Canadians? NOTHING! Oh, sure, they’ve whined and tried to throw their childish muds. But, to the average working schmuck, the Liberals have done absolutely NOTHING beneficial for us. Heck they can’t even show up in the house to vote – even to vote for their own motions.
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 6:11 pm
Sorry,but I stand firmly on my opinion of Micahel Crichton. I was a participant in his so-called ‘forum’ on his book, and witnessed first hand what happened.
How much money he has is a moot point regarding any credentials. In the real world of science the amount of money someone has is not considered a credential, except by the groupies who tag along trying to grasp a wee bit of that elusive 15 minutes of fame.
You are free (an amazingly unused right among so many) to hold any bloody opinion you wish of him. To me he is a FRAUD when it comes to GW or CC! He even admits his book is pure FICTION!
You will have far more success talking to your choir of deniers than moi. I know the science, and have formal training in meterology and weather.
The only idol I have ever had was Einstein, and even he was wrong at times, but he pioneered advanced theorical science. Crichton never even was a licensed MD. He went from academia to some lab work, and then writing. I would not recommend asking him for medical advice either.
I have enjoyed numerous of his works, but when he started playing ‘expert’ way outside of his knowledge, and then played politics, he is no longer on my ‘read list.’
Remember Baghdad? Idols fall HARD don’t they Vic?
Like Harry and Catherine were going to vote anything but CPC…LMAO…
By pjw on 05.04.08 1:51 pm
Fool – I actually have voted for the Liberals before – the last time was in 1993! I saw the light and will not vote for this Liberal party as long as they have these baffoons.
Huh? What’s this about revealing policies? This doesn’t even make sense. People only listen to policy during an election campaign. Well, you do try, even if you screw it up.
By slg on 05.04.08 11:23 am
So slug, where please describe Stephane Dion’s beliefs, principles, and convictions? I have not seen anything concrete from Stephane Dion.
BY HARRY S ON 05.04.08 6:20 PM
I see you didn’t actually READ what Bill-M posted, by the nature of your comment.
Oh, and thanks for telling us “what to post and not to post”. Uh, it didn’t occur to you that it’s up to Garth?
Oh well, that’s just what you control freaks are all about. You are so fearful. You’re going to give yourself a heart attack trying to control everyone.
The like you Harry, your leader is a classless act when he instructs one of his minions to conduct character assasination in the House…
On Wednesday, April 9, Ontario Conservative MP Jeff Watson (Essex) just prior to Question Period, the last of the Statement of Members.
“Mr. Speaker, 16 months ago, the so-called leader of the Liberal Party said that he was “a hero” but the self-proclaimed hero has in fact turned out to be a zero. The only one who has had a worse year than the Liberal leader is Britney Spears. In a desperate effort to rebuild his image, the Liberal so-called leader has turned to his best friend for advice. No, not the Liberal deputy leader and, no, not the Liberal member for Toronto Centre, but to his dog Kyoto, and he has followed Kyoto’s advice with lethal effect.
Kyoto says “down boy” and the Liberal leader responds by driving his poll numbers in Quebec way down. Kyoto says “sit” and the Liberal leader responds by having his caucus sit vote after vote after vote. When Kyoto says “roll over”, the Liberal leader obliges on every significant matter of policy and confidence in our government.
However, the Liberal so-called leader is saving Kyoto’s best advice
for last. In the next election, which Liberals now pretend they will call in the
dog days of summer, their so-called leader will finally play dead.”
(Copied from Hansard)
————————————————————————————————
All the while, Conservative MPs roared and jeered.
Ottawa Citizen political columnist Susan Riley, who was in the House for the attack, noted that Dion’s wife, Janine Krieber, had been in the public gallery but “didn’t stick around to see her husband savaged further… In the pungent, locker-room ethos of Parliament Hill, verbal pile-ons, puerile attack ads and wildly embroidered smears are theatre… But there is a personal edge — a cruelty almost — to the Harper style that hits new lows… You don’t have to be a fan of Dion’s, or a Liberal, to be sick of it.
He must have been in a snit about something yesterday, when he gave that interview.
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 11:07 am
We will see if he runs
the next election may be in Oct 2009.
If he plans on stepping down after the next general election, will it be right after that election, months after that election, a year after that election? It would be a shame to spend tax payer dollars on a by-election.
That is you Harry just like your leader, an absolutely classless crooked mind…you deserve each other!
Gees Harry, it is Garth’s blog, not yours, so I don’t think you need to be telling people where they can and cannot post…grow up will you…you are like a little child!
Catherine, Harry S, et al – do you believe it is the responsibility that the prime minister of Canada should be representing “all” Canadians, should care about “all” Canadians and do his best for “all” Canadians?
By slg on 05.04.08 3:09 pm
Yes I do. In fact that is why I will not for any Liberal PM – especially the current Liberal leader, Stephane Dion. The Liberal PMs have shown they have no respect for us. The Liberal MPs have shown that they use our pockets to dig for cash for their pet projects.
And you – do you feel that Stephane Dion has the compassion and forsight not to gouge us for his pet projects?
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
By pjw on 05.04.08 6:12 pm
and Stephane Dion and his Liberals agreed with Stephen Harper – as they didn’t bring down the government on this and the other fiscal updates and budgets.
BTW, you are getting boring posting your repetitive crap.
By pjw on 05.04.08 6:13 pm
So pjw, why not post about Stephane Dion’s convictions and principles. I dare you to.
I brought some neighbours over to see Harry’s postings….we haven’t laughed like this for a long time…someone suggested that he couldn’t be for real…another wondered if the lunatic ayslum had mistakenly opened its’ doors and he escaped….they all had to admit, he was the best advertisement for ABC….although to be honest, they said they couldn’t believe all Cons were like him…I said on here they are!
Well you all have a good evening, see you tommorrow when the rants of Harry continue…until then Harry the coward, you have a good evening…
How various govt.’s handle the double-whammy of housing meltdowns and world-wide food rationing / shortages remains to be seen, but it clearly is rising to a crescendo, including Canada.
There are probably 100 mln. and more people who are hungry now, and multi-nationals who continue to rake in billions.
http://tinyurl.com/6hlxw4
http://tinyurl.com/5pks9p
Would A Federal Carbon Tax be over and above a Provincial Tax?
Carbon tax a trip to the woodshed, pain for your own good
Thursday, May 01, 2008
VICTORIA -
Ouch.
Ouch, ouch.
Ouch, ouch, ouch.
That, in short, pretty much sums up the reaction from across the province to the carbon tax announced by Finance Minister Carole Taylor in her budget in February and finally introduced as legislation this week. British Columbians are starting to read the fine print on the revenue-neutral guarantee, which promises to cut a dollar of other taxes for every dollar raised by the new carbon tax, and are discovering that neutral for the provincial treasury doesn’t mean they won’t be feeling any pain.
What galls is the apparent inequity: Islanders complain about having to pay more for ferry service due to rising fuel costs. Northerners feel singled out because of longer winters and the distances they drive. Truckers complain they are being driven to the brink.
It’s the kind of reaction that usually sends politicians scurrying for their bunkers from which they can be expected to emerge with a basket full of loopholes to make everyone happy. They know voters who feel unfairly singled out for pain have long memories.
But to the surprise of many, the legislation introduced by Taylor this week offered no such relief, nor could it without losing all credibility. The complaints didn’t spark an ordinary political response because the Carbon Tax Act isn’t an ordinary tax bill. It’s not designed to raise money for the government, it is designed to change behaviour. It’s supposed to hurt.
The carbon tax is a fiscal trip to the woodshed for energy consumers. A painful experience that we’re told is for our own good. The idea is that you can control how the tax affects you through the choices you make. Products and activities that are less harmful to the environment become less expensive and harmful choices cost more. Harm is defined as the release of carbon dioxide and other gases that scientists believe are fuelling destructive climate change. So you can keep on driving that SUV, but you will pay more for the privilege. Carbon taxes reward green living. Energy pigs get butchered.
But here’s the catch. Although we see the carbon taxes directly being applied to gas, home heating oil and other forms of fuel, we will feel its effects in almost every facet of life. You may not have any choice but to pay more. It won’t just be ferry users; homeowners will face a bigger tax bite to pay for increased fuel costs paid by local governments. Consumers of all kinds of goods and services will pay more to cover the increased costs that businesses pays for heat, light and shipping. Those unhappy truckers will face a crunch in the short term, but eventually their higher costs will simply be passed on to consumers.
How much more? We’ll find out. The point is that this is what putting a price on carbon looks like. Generally speaking, the greater the energy content, not just of the item itself, but of everything that goes into to it, the more it will cost.
The size of the carbon tax being introduced this year is more of a slight nudge than a boot in the backside. The strategy is to start low and increase it slowly over the next several years. But the skyrocketing price of oil has overtaken the tiny-steps approach. The carbon tax being imposed in July will be 2.4 cents a litre of gas. Since the tax was announced in February, the price of gas has jumped by about 10 times that much with the carbon tax still to come.
That jump — with predictions that there may be even more pain ahead — should reinforce the message the carbon tax is designed to deliver. It will also hopelessly complicate any analysis of what effect, if any, the tax is having on the B.C. economy, or for that matter on the lives of British Columbians. Still, what matters more over time is the consistent message that manufacturers are starting to get, the message that consumers will be trying to beat the carbon tax — and new price shocks from soaring oil prices — by buying energy-efficient products. If they respond with greener choices, and the smart ones will, look at how well Toyota’s Prius is doing, the carbon tax will have done it’s job.
cmcinnes@png.canwest.com
BY CM ON 05.04.08 6:14 PM
CM,
You reminded me of some oldie but goodie links
True World Foods controlled by Rev. Sun Myung Moon
http://wweek.com/editorial/3232/7668
Quite the anti democracy guy.
http://www.cellwhitman.blogspot.com/
FRONTLINE Transcript:
http://www.mediachannel.org/originals/moontranscript.shtml
Read how he made the money to fund the right:
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/m/moonies/moonies_in_Japan.htm
quote “why the U.S. nation has allowed this political organization to operate in the USA in beyond sanity”
http://www.freedomofmind.com/stevehassan/presskit/articles/parry1.htm
He told the newspaper he owns, News World to print a headline saying “Reagan Landslide” on the day of the 1980 election, before the outcome was known, which influenced voting when it was shown on tv being held up by Ronald Reagan.
His Unification Church had carved out a niche as an acceptable part of the American right not long after that. In a speech Moon boasted “without knowing it, even President Reagan is being guided by Father Moon.” Yet, Moon also made clear that his longer-range goal was the destruction of the U.S. Constitution and America’s democratic form of government. “History will make the position of Reverend Moon clear, and his enemies, the American population and government will bow down to him,” speaking of himself in the third person. “That is Father’s tactic, the natural subjugation of the American government and population.” -unquote
Ha! Harry would love this kind of control freak!
Mr. Turner,
what Canada is badly missing- and Canada’s no different then many other countries- is a conservative party.
The collection of crooks currently in power- on both sides of the border- has nothing to do with Conservatism.
As a true conservative, I consider these opportunists to be my mortal enemies.
They took away the ALTERNATIVE and with it the hope.
Small government, reduced taxation, free-market – these are just empty words for them.
As a result I find myself in a difficult position, and I predict you’re going to increasely face the same problem.
While for the last 2 years I did my best to support the Liberal Party,
the difference in opinions between me and Mr.Dion grew to the point where
a compromise is no longer possible.
There is no way I could support sending our soldiers and tax money to Afghanistan.
There is no way I could support the “Kyoto protocol”.
There is no way I could support a “carbon tax”.
For these reasons I cannot support the Stephane Dion’s Liberal Party.
There are many other instances where I found myself in disagreement with Mr.Dion,
the ones listed above are matters of principle and as such, I found myself unable to get over.
If you’d search your blog’s archives, you’d find I predicted long in advance
your divorce from Harper, as I predicted your change of heart regarding the income trust thievery.
I’ll make a new prediction and I’ll say- if you’re going to stay true to your conservative beliefs- in less then 1 year from now you will have to part ways with Mr.Dion.
Regards,
Solitario
By pjw on 05.04.08 6:13 pm
So pjw, why not post about Stephane Dion’s convictions and principles. I dare you to.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 7:11 pm
I am here to balance Harry’s rants, not to support the Liberal party….I know that is hard for you to understand, but I am an independent…although I did send in $1100.00 to the Con party, requested it returned along with a tax receipt so I could defraud the taxpayers ala CPC….
BTW, you are getting boring posting your repetitive crap.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 7:09 pm
That is too bad, so are your posts…but as long as Harry is here to bash Dion, I will be here to bring the facts on Harper, funny no one disputes them…LMAO….
It would be a shame to spend tax payer dollars on a by-election.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 6:57 pm
I don’t know why you would say that when the CPC spent 31 million on pollinbg, twice what the Libs used to do..then trying to take the taypayers for there “in & Out” scam…you Cons obviously aren’t to concerned about bilking the taxpayers….
Fool – I actually have voted for the Liberals before – the last time was in 1993! I saw the light and will not vote for this Liberal party as long as they have these baffoons.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 6:51 pm
Thank you for proving my point!
And it’s a long road out of eden….
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 3:35 pm
Spoken as only an artist can Bill.
Thank you very much. I appreciated it.
Floorcrossing hypocrite!
By wilson on 05.04.08 1:09 am
Garth Turner… elected as a CPC. Kicked out of caucus, by whom doesn’t matter. At that point he is still an MP (although I’m sure Harper would have wanted that to be revoked), and therefore became an independant. At this time, all ties to the CPC were severed by the CPC. Where Garth chose to go is none of their business and does not constitute floor crossing.
Now lets take Mr. Khan. Elected as a Liberal MP. Accepted the position offered to him as a special advisor to the CPC. (if the previous is a repeat, sorry, user actuation error!)
Given a choice by the then Lib leader to either quit as special advisor or remain as a Liberal, he chose the CPC.
He probably would have been kicked out of the Lib caucus anyway, so he is in the same boat as Garth.
Then we have Emerson. Campaigned vigourously against the CPC. Elected as a Liberal. Offered a cabinet post by CPC Pm Harper because they didn’t have representation for BC in the cabinet. Within a week, crossed the floor.
Now thats a floor crossing hypocrite.
Not to mention Harper, who campaigned against floor crossing, but yet actively enticed Emerson to do so. Or campaigned against the unaccountable, unelected senate, but immediately after the election, again because their was no represenation in Montreal within his cabinet, appointed Fortier as a senator; but also put this unelected, unaccountable person in cabinet, running of all thing one of the biggest ministries there is!
So if your looking for a synonym for the word hypocrite, try Harper and Emerson.
An insight into Stephane Dion’s leadership. During his recent visit to Ontario Mr Dion met with some liberal official, one of whom when introduced to him was identified as a scientist, when Mr Dion heard this he asked the scientist “What do you think of our science program?” You have it backwards” was the reply. “Oh explain”
So the scientist did. When he was finished Mr Dion had his assistant get his science advisor on the phone “Now tell him what you have just told me.”
That is leadership an instant decision to change things.
Harper will cut back the liberalized, socialized, criminalized Ottawa establishment and all it’s social engineering tentacles that has choked the SINGLE CANADIAN TAXPAYER with over-taxation and no value for money ….!!!!
By Harry S on 05.04.08 4:37 pm
And Harper will replace it with the CON, religious wingnut, criminal Alberta yes-men and all it’s social and religious engineering tentacles that has choked the CANADIAN TAXPAYER with unearned rebates to Con Candidates and no value for money paid by taxpayers.
Good post, Harry. – Garth”
(..NOT: “Good post, pjw.” – LOL)
Bugger off you cut & paste minor mindlet and let this fine forum elevate itself for what it is intended … porcine too …
By Harry S on 05.04.08 6:20 pm
The Russian sent me a picture of you for my files.
http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Pictures/head_up_ass.jpg
posted by Garth Turner:
Dion stands for lower income taxes, justice for income trust investors, a drop in corporate taxes, a climate change strategy with guts, tax-shifting to reduce the burden on families, balanced budgets and technological innovation.
…………………………………………………….
If Dion stands for all these policies, when will he implement them, because he has said there will be no election this Spring or Summer? After all he would have to be the prime minister to make all these policies a reality.
Sooner, later … or never ….??
By pjw on 05.04.08 1:57 pm
Good laugh.
Thanks.
By Greg on 05.04.08 8:19 pm
Better laugh.
By Catherine on 05.04.08 7:11 pm
FREEDOM AND OPPORTUNITY
Stephane Dion proudly leads the Liberal Party of Canada. A Party that built the national social safety net we today take for granted.
Liberals created public pensions for our seniors.
Liberals created our national health care system.
Liberals created employment insurance for our unemployed.
Liberals created child benefit programs for our families.
Liberals were the first to talk about making work pay and using the tax system to help Canadians get over the welfare wall.
Stephane Dion will be calling on Canadians to support the Liberal Party’s 30-50 Plan, to join in common cause with us as we embark on a war on poverty never seen before in Canada’s history.
We will win this war not by keeping people dependent but by helping them become self-sufficient.
We will champion the dignity of work. We will champion families.
We will work with the provinces, we will work with communities, we will work with the Learning Enrichment Foundation and other similar organizations.
We will be the best partner that you ever had.
We will work with all Canadians and because of that we will succeed. And we will have a richer Canada, a Greener Canada, and a fairer Canada for ourselves, our children and generations to come.
Stephane Dion is a leader. He defines true leadership.
Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 6:49 pm Ongoing discussion – Michael Crichton.
Bill you have an interesting debate style. You’ve made a number of slanderous statements alleging that Michael Crichton’s opinions about global warming are lies, due to his alliance to ‘big oil’. You offer not one whit of proof that your charges are true.
”Sorry, but I stand firmly on my opinion of Michael Crichton. I was a participant in his so-called ‘forum’ on his book, and witnessed first hand what happened.”
What forum? What did happen? Did it prove that Crichton lied about global warming and been ‘bought’ by big oil?
How much money he has is a moot point regarding any credentials. In the real world of science the amount of money someone has is not considered a credential, except by the groupies who tag along trying to grasp a wee bit of that elusive 15 minutes of fame.
His wealth is not moot – why would a multimillionaire ruin his reputation by prostrating himself to ‘big oil’? What does the rest of the statement have to do with Crichton?
You are free (an amazingly unused right among so many) to hold any bloody opinion you wish of him. To me he is a FRAUD when it comes to GW or CC! He even admits his book is pure FICTION!
You’re alluding to his novel, “State of Fear”. Of course it is fiction – it is a novel. However, unlike most novels you’ll read in your life, it has a thick bibliography in the back, containing hundreds of sources for all the arguments of the characters, that global warming is natural and not man caused. Unlike you, who have yet to provide one single shread of proof that Crichton is lying due to having been ‘bought off’ by ‘big oil’.
You will have far more success talking to your choir of deniers than moi. I know the science, and have formal training in meteorology and weather.
Then it should be simple for you to prove your allegation that Dr. Crichton is lying about global warming due to his allegiance to ‘big oil’.
The only idol I have ever had was Einstein, and even he was wrong at times, but he pioneered advanced theoretical science. Crichton never even was a licensed MD. He went from academia to some lab work, and then writing. I would not recommend asking him for medical advice either.
Einstein was long gone before the global warming controversy arose, so reference to him is immaterial. If you’d bothered to read Crichton’s speech, you’ll see that he argues strongly that basic scientific principles be applied to the climatology data often used to promote the ‘man caused’ theory. You are dead wrong about his degree – I don’t know if this is malicious lying on your part or ignorance. From his site: “Crichton graduated summa cum laude from Harvard College, received his MD from Harvard Medical School, and was a postdoctoral fellow at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies, researching public policy with Jacob Bronowski.” Are you charging that he is lying about his degree, too? This would be an even greater slander than your charge of being bought off by ‘big oil’.
I have enjoyed numerous of his works, but when he started playing ‘expert’ way outside of his knowledge, and then played politics, he is no longer on my ‘read list.’
I’m sure he’ll lay awake at night in misery when he hears that.
Remember Baghdad? Idols fall HARD don’t they Vic?
Nonsensical. Irrelevant.
Vic,
Check these out.
Michael Crichton’s State of Confusion II: Return of the Science
and this
by Dr. Jeffrey M. Masters
Chief Meteorologist, The Weather Underground, Inc.
I give Crichton credit for attempting to weave what is obviously to him a very important bit of personal philosophy into an action-thriller novel. I also give him credit for taking the initiative to educate himself on the Global Warming issue, something that I believe all citizens should do (if you’ve got 10 minutes, a good place to start is the latest scientific summary of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group of over 2000 scientists from 100 countries working under a mandate from the United Nations in the largest peer-reviewed scientific collaboration in history). However, “State of Fear” is a disappointment both as an action-thriller novel, and as a credible source of science on the Global Warming issue. The action is fun when it happens, but is way too bogged down by the excessive sermonizing and “educating” that Crichton interjects at every opportunity in the story. I found myself skipping page after page of his characters’ interminable griping to get to the action parts. And Crichton’s obvious gloom about the harm excessive environmentalism is doing to the world is reflected in the book, making the mood of the story very dark, and not much fun to read.
Here, in his own woprds is the state of State of Fear
The Official message Board
Please do not start another SOF thread in the BOOKS forum, either. SOF is off-limits for the near future. I’ll let you know if/when the topic will be re-opened. Also, please do not post oblique references to SOF, global warming, etc., in other forums either (like science, for example). They’ll get deleted. Let’s just give it a rest for a while and see how it goes.
All other MC subjects are open for business!
His current, note ‘current’ website does NOT list ALL the archives of the State of Fear discussion board where the exchanges were carried out. It appears (and I have not the time or desire to waste the time to perform a detailed search of the new website.) that he has ’selectively’ archived some, but not all of the very heated discussions that occurred per my recollection of the topics..
Here is the available information SOF Archives
You do seem honest, but I am trying to express to you, Crichton is NOT a climatology scientist, nor an expert in that field. He is a ‘Hollywood Figure’ used by the CC deniers. Don’t be sucked into their deception.
I suggest reputable sources such as Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, the I.P.C.C., etc. Look at the Montreal Protocol while you are at it. Canada started the process, signed onto Kyoto, and then Harper reversed our commitment, following Bush’s lead (demands?). In fact, the U.S. signed on as well, and the Congress said Nyet under pressure from the lobbying groups wanting to avoid the issue.
Note: I am not an ardent supporter of Kyoto, and have always maintained it ‘was just a good start to get the world to work together.’
I am highly suspicious of the Carbon Credit scheme which appears to be another Ponzi scheme to create another commodities market.
I am 100% for actually DEALING with the problems of GHG emissions. That means treating such emissions as criminal acts, but that requires tough laws, and Canada DOES NOT have them. The U.S. has for decades, but not Canada.
Good luck in your research. BTW, MC estimates you can spend 700 hours (easlily) reading the SOF archives.
My bottom line is ‘It’s the oceans STUPID!’ When they go this planet will take natural courses to correct the imbalance, and that will NOT include any consideration for mankind. The oceans control our global weather, and when the currents stop or change, our land weather will be far worse than we have seen todate. It is not the global average temperature rise that is the problem, rather it is, and will be the local and regional changes in Climate Chnage that will bring devastation to people and life.
Oh, and all the scientists were all over ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ and then one brave scientist, who actually knew what he was talking about stood up. Now the pedulum has shifted towards that very scenario. Bottom line it will be the thermodynamic system of this planet that we, puny little humans, will be made victim of. Where we can mitigate our contribution sanity demands we act.
Do NOT use the MSM to reach conclusions. They are as clueless as they come.
Here is a good scientific explanation of what the real problem is with Carbon Dioxide.
PS Thanks Barb the Proof reader for your kind comments.
Harry S on 05.04.08 4:37 pm
..And Harper will replace it with the CON, religious wingnut, criminal Alberta yes-men and all it’s social and religious engineering tentacles that has choked the CANADIAN TAXPAYER with unearned rebates to Con Candidates and no value for money paid by taxpayers.
BY LIZ ON 05.04.08 8:02 PM
And as an Albertan, I’ll back you up on that one Liz. Great come back on Hairy.
posted by Garth Turner:
Dion stands for lower income taxes, justice for income trust investors, a drop in corporate taxes, a climate change strategy with guts, tax-shifting to reduce the burden on families, balanced budgets and technological innovation.
…………………………………………………….
If Dion stands for all these policies, when will he implement them, because he has said there will be no election this Spring or Summer? After all he would have to be the prime minister to make all these policies a reality.
Sooner, later … or never ….??
By Harry S on 05.04.08 8:38 pm
When Canadians stop drinking the HarperCON Koolaid!
http://www.carolineepp.com/remem/images/REMEMBER%20JONESTOWN%20small.jpg
PS Thanks Barb the Proof reader for your kind comments.
BY BILL-MUSKOKA ON 05.04.08 8:57 PM
Thanks Bill. Appreciated. Bill, can you do me a huge favour. Since I’m relatively new to all this, did I do something to deserve someone’s post at 05.04.08 6:10 PM
or was that just a troll in disguise do you think? Just your thoughts if any on that minor thing, otherwise don’t bother. Thanks.
Nonsensical. Irrelevant.
By Vicguy on 05.04.08 8:53 pm
Yes, you are Vic. Now, try reading what I said…in detail. Chricton, for one example, was never a licensed MD by any State.
He got his DEGREE from Harvard, but never took State Boards…a requirement for being a licensed MD, not merely a med school graduate.
Get back to me in a day or month after you have reviewed the links I posted before this comment.
Have a nice night.
PS: Are you a newbie at the Death Star or just a misinformed person looking for answers? We get the new trolls here all the time, and in light of Baird’s totally failed environmental policies (has he even got one?) and Harper’s pro-Bush alliance, I must ask that question?
Thank you very much. I appreciated it.
By Greg on 05.04.08 7:46 pm
You are most welcome Greg. I also love their new songs ‘Hole In The World’ and ‘Cloudy Days’!
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 8:57 pm
Canada started the process, signed onto Kyoto, and then Harper reversed our commitment, following Bush’s lead (demands?).
Harper has grudgingly accepted the general objectives of Kyoto, to reduce GHGs, but he has outright rejected international carbon markets on which Kyoto was contrived. Kyoto was intended to shift money from developed to underdeveloped countries so they could spew GHGs while Canadians were penalized for doing the same.
Note: I am not an ardent supporter of Kyoto, and have always maintained it ‘was just a good start to get the world to work together.’
I am highly suspicious of the Carbon Credit scheme which appears to be another Ponzi scheme to create another commodities market.
Are you not suspicious of the Liberals, and in particular Dion, planning to buy Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China, where Canadian financial interests linked directly to the Liberal party are heavily invested in high sulphur coal-fired power plant construction and operation?
Dion has issued two ‘Green Plans’ … one while he was environment minister and he had allocated $5 Billion for ‘international’ carbon credits, while in his second plan in opposition, he only mentions ‘international’ carbon credits.
Minister Baird has said he would consider a domestic and NAFTA carbon market, but Harper has nixed Chinese carbon credits .. and that is a big factor in the anger of the Chinese to the Harper Conservatives. The Chinese had government officials attending the Liberal leadership Montreal convention as ‘guests’ .. and knowing the Chinese communist-capitalists, this is a significant gesture. Can you connect the dots between the Chinese and Liberals now??
Do you trust the Dion Liberals on Kyoto, particularly since they intentionally accumulated some 32% excess GHGs above our 2012 Kyoto objectives? Don’t you too suspect that the Liberals would purchase massive amounts of Kyoto Carbon Credits to mitigate the 32% excess GHGs with a transfer of Canadian taxpayer’s money to China? I do …..
By pjw on 05.04.08 7:15 pm
I still surmise that there is a terminal at the CPC Death Star named ‘Harry S’ (More taxpayer money spent by CRAP to promote its hidden agenda.), and that the comments made from it are from various people ranging from pseudo intellectuals to the insane. If you look carefully at the context and style you will find they are NOT the same person, albeit only one with MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder) or psychotic schrizophrenia could emanate that many diverse personalities.
Living proof that OHIP should fund prescription drugs to aide the mentally infirmed
By Barb the proof-reader
on 05.04.08 9:15 pm
IMO that is NOT a comment from Greg. More Chatty Cathy’s, or Hairy Arse’s style. They have quite a crew at the CRAP Death Star. See my previous comment regarding the ‘Harry S’ terminal.
They use the Maunal for Committees to impersonate others here. Garth knows who really posts, but the poor man has real things to attend to other than cross referencing ISP data. I am amazed how he keeps up, but that is a true MP, serving Canadians.
It is now TV and desert time.
Good night!
My advice, discard it like any ‘gnatsy’ comment. Greg’s one of the good commenters here. That was not a Greg style comment.
Have a good night.
World laughter day is today .
ROTFLMAO
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 9:37 pm
Really Bill .. if you want to have any credibility on this fine forum, you should divulge exactly who you are, otherwise stfu with your pompous declarations and all that crap you post that clogs up the forum .. Yer virtual plagiarizing is the sign of an unstable mind, unrequited because nobody bothers to read your dormant blog .. and instead you anonymously post your sh!t here and burden MP Garth’s bandwidth with your worthless blather. You yearn for an audience for your pompous pendantic crap and you hide in cowardly anonymity.
Have you no shame .. you claiming to be an erudite mind, a U.S. Marine, a noted engineer, and running your own international business from the Muskoka environs.
Fess up you cowardly pos .. who are you …??!!!
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.04.08 8:57 pm
You hit the nail right on the head when you reminded us that Kyoto was a place to START – there is an incredibly long way to go from there.
Just like the little kiddies who look for ways to put off the fact that they have to go to bed – the head-in-the-sanders and their relations are grabbing at every little thing to stave off the inevitable.
If you use your eyes, connect them to the brain that you were endowed with, and do a little observing and critical thinking, the reality will hit you between the eyes with all the impact of stepping on a rake – the trouble is that by and large the graduates of our educational system have no ability to do critical thinking – it was drilled out of them at an early age.
I agree that the carbon credits scheme doesn’t pass the sniff test – BTW, isn’t it funny how Harry S’s nose wrinkles at that, but not the in-and-out advertising scheme?
Hi Greg. I just read your 2:05pm. Thank you Comrade…I know some,of what you speak.
Jason (Fat Virgin loser) Kenney, the Calgary MP who worked in his party’s campaign war room, agrees the scare raised some question marks and dampened the vote but solving the situation is no problem.
“The fear factor will disappear if we deliver competent government, meet the ethical standards we’ve set and if the economy continues to grow. Then the Liberals can bring it on. Fear and smear cannot be replayed. Next time, we’ll kick their butts.”
Three strikes . ‘yer outta there .
By William Laidlaw on 05.04.08 10:13 pm
I agree that the carbon credits scheme doesn’t pass the sniff test – BTW, isn’t it funny how Harry S’s nose wrinkles at that, but not the in-and-out advertising scheme?
……………………………..
All’s fair in love, war and politics … LOL
Harry? I thought you were voted out unless you improve upon your people skills. Now, please go back and read what you last wrote. It seems somewhat self-analytical. You could learn alot from it. And, more importantly, from other’s here. Remember, it is a priviledge to be at Garth’s- try not to mess it up for everyone,ok? Thanks, bud.
My sides are still hurting from all of the laughing I’ve been doing. You really, TRULY, don’t believe the Liberals, and Stephane Dion, when they make 62.5 billion dollars in commitments, do you? Garth, please. You were in the Campbell government. You’ve been fighting Liberals your whole career, regardless of what you say happened with Harper, do you expect any of us to think you had a eureka moment and suddenly decided you were more in tune with the Liberal Party of Canada? Please. I feel sorry for the people who actually buy what you’re saying. Because I know you don’t believe your own rhetoric…
By Harry S on 05.04.08 10:12 pm
Really Bill .. if you want to have any credibility on this fine forum, you should divulge exactly who you are, otherwise stfu with your pompous declarations and all that crap you post that clogs up the forum
Strange, Harry, but I think that this sentiment is more appropriately directed at you.
Have you no shame .. you claiming to be an erudite mind, a U.S. Marine, a noted engineer, and running your own international business from the Muskoka environs.
Fess up you cowardly pos .. who are you …??!!!
By Harry S on 05.04.08 10:12 pm
It seems this is the pot calling the kettle black.
If you are so adamant that Bill disclose himself, why don’t you start by doing it yourself. Who are you Harry?
Bill is a great contributor to this blog and sppears to be very intelligent and thoughtful. Certainly much more productive and valuable than your posts. He has a good sense of humor as well. A sense of humor can be one indication of intelligence.
How is your sense of humor Harry?
Hi Barb! re 6:10pm- I didn’t sense that was Greg, either. You keep doing exactly what you have been- that’s what they want to stop. Remember, as was posted previously here- “speaking the truth, will become an act of revolution…” Yes, (Herb) I do think they are as obtuse as they seem AND are clumsily conspiring to try bring us all to that place. Watching that’s a laugh all on it’s own! What you do is important, to me, Barb, and I’m sure many other’s and contrary to the post, that accuses you of not letting people think for themselves- YOU give us resources which present us with something to think ABOUT! They cannot seem to comprehend this as it requires the ability to keep an open mind. For the Love of All that is Good, could the bot’s pul-lease not ruin everything for the rest of us? –This is why we can’t have nice things!!! (Overheard at ITQ) Take care Barb. We need you.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 10:12 pm
Possibly after you list your full name, address and S.I.N. number.
By Harry S on 05.04.08 10:12 pm
Who am I? I am your worst F’n nightmare, maggot!
Here is your Fearless Leader’s
Time to Stop Prime Ministers From Ruling Like Kings, Expert Says
Now, go back to your video game, and try, in fact write this 100 times Hairy, ‘I am not the owner, nor moderator of Garth’s Blog! I need to STFU!’
We will know if it sinks in.
BTW! It is so pleasing to see you on the defensive, running to and fro like the cowardly little cockroach you are, and seriously worried that your Dear Leader’s WMD’s (Words of Mass Deception) will be revealed for the LIES they have been, and are. Let me say it in your style of communication Hairy ‘THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!!!! HE IS BUCK ASS NAKED AND EXPOSED!!!’ Caesar Disgustus is a sicko power pervert unworthy to occupy any position of authority in OUR government!
Oh yes, tell your suckass supervisor at the Death Star this’ ‘I am proud to be your Most Wanted To Disappear commenter at Garth’s Blog’, and ‘I will continue posting unarguable facts that strip your lieing bunch of mindless mushroom brained parrots of all credibility. Your best last hope is to resign now, before the election and the arrest warrants are issued. Got it Maggot?’
I’ve only just begun to strip you and your maggot brained morons of their vestments. Wait until Wilde gets here.
Now, get back to your basement terminal., and stop playing with yourself maggot.
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.05.08 8:59 am
Tut tut .. Billy-Muskrat and a good morning to you … and don’t get yer knicker all twisted up so early in the day because you just might burst an artery and require urgent medical care for your mighty ‘marine’ body and mind …LOL
My how brave you are with word, yet you hide in fearful anonymity on MP Garth’s fine forum, slinking about like the snake that you are … LOL
Come on Billy-boy … be a man, a real marine .. not some pussy-licking wimp who pounds a keyboard for his jollies. Your adoring supporters are trying to shield you because they also live in fear and intrepidness .. so don’t you be a cowardly pos too … fess up or fo …!!!!
(BTW … glad to see that you agree with me on those sham Kyoto Carbon Credits ..LOL)
Harry,
Good questions, I hope you find what you are looking for.
Peace bro,
Daryn
Harry,
You are very hostile to people who don’t agree with you. So I will dare to comment for you as you requested above. If you have nothing positive to say don’t bother answering. If you swear and cuss like an angry 16 year old, than I will never bother to respond to you again. Cool?
I think the conservatives don’t understand the political values and culture of most of Ontarians. Canada is not a conservative country, Ontarians are not social conservatives. In 2006 We elected Harper by default, because we liked Martin, but in principle could allow the scandal plagued liberals to continue. Now, you may not like that but it is the truth for many Ontarians; that is why the conservatives won the smallest majority in Canadian history.
I don’t hate Mr. Harper. I think he has not been totally honest about the Cadman Affair, the NAFTAGATE or the “in and out” scandal-I suppose the ugly side of politics has tainted him a bit. Even so, from what I have seen during his interviews with Mike Duffy, news conferences and youtube broadcasts that he seems like reasonable person. I know someone who spent a reasonable amount of time around Harper and says he is not a people person. Fair enough, he is professional as long as he is not in the house of commons. What I don’t like is that he is too far bound to ideology or indoctrination, which sort of says he lacks conviction. Think about it, He has been a Reform party stratigist, a political activist and MP for most of his career. I would say that he probably has been in the game to long, and has more opinions about things rather than practical and creative solutions. I think being tied exclusively to ideology puts you out of touch with everyday people. An example that showed he is out of touch with what real people care about is when he came to London Ontario and said, “this government is avowedly decentralist. My guess is, ” Londoner’s would probably say, hmmmm, we don’t care about that…..at all…..Let talk about the real issues now?, What are you going to do for the automotive sector?”
Ontarians generally think that cutting taxes way to quickly without a proper budget was silly, radical and irresponsible. Whats more, I don’t think Harper realised that Ontarians viewed that huge surplus as a sign of hope and economic stability; Many Ontarians see head offices, plants, hospitals…jobs….come and go while the federal government remains; ideology needs to evolve to accept that fact. No we are not whimps and we are not socialist, we like free trade and capitalism, we just don’t like its cyclical nature. Further, Ontarians are still wondering what they got for their money; we suffered the most to get the country’s finances in order-ask any working Ontarian about the 90s recession! We think that the Conservatives just wanted to gut the federal government for ideological reasons. As for the tax cuts, Mr. Harper shouldn’t expect us to jump up and embrace his conservative government now that we know a deficit is possible; and that our federal debt will be paid of in 50 years rather than 15 years.
Harris style fiscal policies are not welcome nor respect in Ontario.
Dion’s message is getting through the conservative attack ads. He is an honest man, he isn’t a street fighter, he doesn’t like spin, he has a vision for the environment, the economy and social justice. Most of all, he isn’t power hungry; he fell into politics because Chretien recruited him, he remained because he thought he could make a positive difference.
Ignatieff nor Bob Rae will not lead the liberal party into the next election; it will be Dion. If he gets the chance to be Prime Minister-Chances are good he will- he will be one of the most notable prime ministers in modern times. I recommend that Harper or Doug Finley-types start to respect Mr. Dion, or the continuing disrespect Conservatives have may come back to haunt the them.
Hope you find what you are looking for somewhere in this comment even if you dont agree.
Peace,
Daryn
Muskoka Bill…Harry S. is obviously mentally ill and is Steven Harper’s very own Monica Lewinsky wannabe who would if he could (remember her Harry). He loves Harper and believes everything Harper and the Cons say. There is no talking rationally or even irrationally to this person so there is no point. The guy (is Harry a guy?) lives in a basement by himself and does a lot of fantasizing–mostly about Steve Bush, err Harper.
Bye all – I’ve had more than enough of Harry S and Bill-Muskoka’s teenaged, filthy, brain-dead rhetoric trying to pass for intellectualism. Bill, you seem like you once may have had a fine mind – careful, you’re mutating! And Harry S, you disgusting pig, get a hobby, get some fresh air, get a life but above all, get some manners! It isn’t just the two of you here.
… He(Dion)isn’t a street fighter….
by Daryn
That is why the Liberals will not win the next election. An example of a street fighter was Chretien(one the best ) won three majorities.
By terry on 05.05.08 1:53 pm
I know. He also never realizes when the conversation is OVER!. Pretty much like a schoolyard Bully who tries to keep taunting long after the bell has rung, and the buses have departed.
See you in the new topic.
By Daryn on 05.05.08 12:02 pm
You are very hostile to people who don’t agree with you. So I will dare to comment for you as you requested above. If you have nothing positive to say don’t bother answering. If you swear and cuss like an angry 16 year old, than I will never bother to respond to you again. Cool?
I try not to be hostile, but when provoked by foul-mouthed louts like Bill-M(arine), Pyotr(poopmouth), and a few other blowhards .. well sometimes I have to give them a taste of their own medicine .. but in general I restrain/ignore myself/them. Regardless, you raise many anecdotal points that are quite unsubstantiated in fact … however if those are your personal opinion sobeit….
……………………
I think the conservatives don’t understand the political values and culture of most of Ontarians. Canada is not a conservative country, Ontarians are not social conservatives. In 2006 We elected Harper by default, because we (dis?)liked Martin, but in principle could (not?) allow the scandal plagued liberals to continue. Now, you may not like that but it is the truth for many Ontarians; that is why the conservatives won the smallest majority in Canadian history.
You are correct in saying that Canada/Ontario is not a ‘conservative’ country/province … however I believe that is changing fast as the Conservative led by dynamic Harper is increasing his support slowly but steadily. Canadians were mindlessly addicted to the Liberals, but now that they have revealed themselves a corrupt and even criminal, Canadians are questioning their confidence in the Liberals. In Quebec the Liberals are getting wiped out, and the saying is: “as goes Quebec so goes Ontario” … at least that what it was like during Trudeau’s reign. The conversion of Canadians over to conservative politics will be gradual, but it will progress in spite of the dirty politics being played by the Liberals and their MSM minions.
………………………
I don’t hate Mr. Harper. I think he has not been totally honest about the Cadman Affair, the NAFTAGATE or the “in and out” scandal – suppose the ugly side of politics has tainted him a bit. Even so, from what I have seen during his interviews with Mike Duffy, news conferences and youtube broadcasts that he seems like reasonable person. I know someone who spent a reasonable amount of time around Harper and says he is not a people person. Fair enough, he is professional as long as he is not in the house of commons. What I don’t like is that he is too far bound to ideology or indoctrination, which sort of says he lacks conviction. Think about it, He has been a Reform party stratigist, a political activist and MP for most of his career. I would say that he probably has been in the game to long, and has more opinions about things rather than practical and creative solutions. I think being tied exclusively to ideology puts you out of touch with everyday people. An example that showed he is out of touch with what real people care about is when he came to London Ontario and said, “this government is avowedly decentralist. My guess is, ” Londoner’s would probably say, hmmmm, we don’t care about that…..at all…..Let talk about the real issues now?, What are you going to do for the automotive sector?”
Harper is fighting an uphill battle against the entrenched Liberal sub-culture that pervades Canadian politics; that is for sure. I met Harper several years ago on his bbq summer tour, and I pinned him down on issues of concern to me and he responded in a tough and principled manner … I liked that in the man … he stood his ground but we came to a mutual understanding taking into account the tough road ahead for Conservatives in Canada and the job of converting Canadians away from their Liberal delusion. Harper is struggling with the minority government, and you should take that into account in his tenuous position, rather than just attacking so that the still corrupt Liberals can return to power asap (per Dion). Harper is quite the comedian in private, and he showed that in the Press Roast several years ago .. however he has become very guarded against the hostile Liberalized media that feasts on any mistep he may take. Better to go to the people directly and ask them for their vote of confidence. As for the ’scandals’ .. they are manufactured trash by the Liberals and their MSM agents. (Btw .. even London is leaving the Liberals with only 2 riding being held by the Liberals and the others by the NDP and CPC. I see one of the Liberal ridings being lost to the CPC in the next election.)
……………………..
Ontarians generally think that cutting taxes way to quickly without a proper budget was silly, radical and irresponsible. Whats more, I don’t think Harper realised that Ontarians viewed that huge surplus as a sign of hope and economic stability; Many Ontarians see head offices, plants, hospitals…jobs….come and go while the federal government remains; ideology needs to evolve to accept that fact. No we are not whimps and we are not socialist, we like free trade and capitalism, we just don’t like its cyclical nature. Further, Ontarians are still wondering what they got for their money; we suffered the most to get the country’s finances in order-ask any working Ontarian about the 90s recession! We think that the Conservatives just wanted to gut the federal government for ideological reasons. As for the tax cuts, Mr. Harper shouldn’t expect us to jump up and embrace his conservative government now that we know a deficit is possible; and that our federal debt will be paid of in 50 years rather than 15 years.
Now that’s a load of doodoo, and you are contradicting yourself all over the place with those propagandic statements. You are just falling all over yourself trying to convince yourself that Ontarians won’t vote Conservative in the next election .. but you fear the worse .. because tax cuts win elections. If you want the government to be tested on your beliefs, the only way to do that is with an immediate election for June 16th … otherwise you must wait until September-October, by which time the Harper government will be flooding the country with good $$$$ news and then another Budget. By then we should see if Dion’s Rubber-Chicken Summer Tour will have boosted the Liberal party beyond 30% and over the Conservative 36% popularity. As for gutting the federal government, yes that’s what is needed so Canadians can be taxed less by Ottawa, and then Dalton can raise his own taxes to save Ontario manufacturing if he wants to subsidize losers like the Detroit Big Three. Meanwhile Dion’s Carbon Tax will most certainly gut the Ontario auto industry due to higher gasoline prices .. an environmental gift from a dictatorial and centralized Dion Liberal government. Bye bye MP Garth in any next election if that is what Dion will be peddling..!!
…………………………………
Harris style fiscal policies are not welcome nor respect in Ontario.
Ontarians … I offer you Bob Rae fiscal policies .. oh but wait … he has been relegated to ‘foreign affairs’ so the Liberal party is not further dragged down in the poll … Dion + Rae = Disaster in Ontario …!!!!
……………………………….
Dion’s message is getting through the conservative attack ads. He is an honest man, he isn’t a street fighter, he doesn’t like spin, he has a vision for the environment, the economy and social justice. Most of all, he isn’t power hungry; he fell into politics because Chretien recruited him, he remained because he thought he could make a positive difference.
How quickly you forget Dion’s very first nasty words, just hours after he was ’selected’ Liberal leader … insultingly proclaiming that PM Harper was “a right-wing, neocon, pro-Bush, pro-Iraq and not representing Canadian values” … uttered from his nasty little mouth in a vain attempt to define Harper before Harper could define him. Well what happened next was the CPC using the words of Ignatieff and Dryden, as well as Dion’s stupid blurts, and several weeks later they came up with the now-famous ‘truth’ ads about Dion … and Dion was defined by his own Liberal opponents..!!! So what were you saying about Dion ….??!!!
………………………..
Ignatieff nor Bob Rae will not lead the liberal party into the next election; it will be Dion. If he gets the chance to be Prime Minister – Chances are good – he will be one of the most notable prime ministers in modern times. I recommend that Harper or Doug Finley-types start to respect Mr. Dion, or the continuing disrespect Conservatives have may come back to haunt the them.
Now this is sheer delusionary fantacizing on your part. How can Dion, who only scrapes up 8 – 14% personal popularity in every national poll taken on leadership for the last year and more, lead the 30% Liberal party to government??? Why are you challenging me to respond to this kind of irrationality, and than accuse me of ‘hostility’ and worse, when you yourself are so out of touch with reality?? Ignatieff is pushing for a snap election this Spring as recently reported in the Barrie Examiner, while Dion and Rae want to hold off until the Fall … so who is ‘leading’ the Liberals now ..??!!!
………………………….
Hope you find what you are looking for somewhere in this comment even if you dont agree. Peace, Daryn
When you come back to reality, tell me … Peace & tranquility … Harry S
It was very gutsy for Dion to say the word “carbon tax.” From where he stands, he thinks its the right thing to do.
Just saying the word “tax” is huge in federal politics these days.
Whether one agrees with it or not it does show he has principles and leadership especially in the area of global warming.
Harry,
Im not in reality….nice one.
Hey why is it that most of the Conservative minsters including Harper are all fat bastards?
Daryn
By Daryn on 05.06.08 8:33 am
It was very gutsy for Dion to say the word “carbon tax.” From where he stands, he thinks its the right thing to do.
Just saying the word “tax” is huge in federal politics these days.
Whether one agrees with it or not it does show he has principles and leadership especially in the area of global warming.
…………………………………
Not only did Dion say ‘carbon tax’ he also said ‘raise the GST’… which is a rather clear preference to tax and spend. I wonder how many Canadian taxpayers will vote for that …??!!!!
Dion came out of academia, was a low profile minister in the Chretien government where he earned the contempt of francophone Quebecers, and then was grudgingly made environment minister in the Martin government, where he failed big time to make Kyoto a ‘prioritee’.
What has Dion done to distinguish himself as Liberal leader worthy of becoming our next prime minister??
Please remember that his personal polling numbers are disastrous low and the Liberal party polling numbers are mired at ~30% during his entire leadership tenure. Perhaps his ‘principles’ and ‘character’ don’t sell .. ever think of that ..??!!!
I hope he has enough gutsiness to vacate the Liberal leadership after this summer .. or will he cling to it because he is too self-centred..??