Earlier this week I recounted the anatomy of a smear. It’s an interesting lesson in the pack mentality of certain Conservative supporters, and the undeserved attention they heap upon me. It continued yesterday and today on open line radio talk shows in Toronto and Calgary, and with Tory bloggers eager to pull my duodenum out through my ear. Unfortunately, they couldn’t find the zipper.
To recap: I held a session for 24 local faith leaders on moral issues confronting me as an MP and we as a people. In my concluding remarks I questioned our public allotment of resources when our forces fire artillery shells worth $150,000 in Afghanistan (pictured above), and yet we lack the funding for a troubled youth drop-in centre in Milton. In saying the shells were used solely to demolish targets, including ‘Afghan villages’, I assumed my audience would understand those would be Taliban locations. After all, why else blow them up?
A Halton Conservative attack dog used one line out of a local newspaper report containing that comment to construct a letter to the Milton Champion saying I came “perilously close to accusing them (our soldiers) of purposely murdering civilians.” I was vilified and asked to apologize to our troops for defaming them. This was then picked up (instantly, by some coincidence) by a famous Conservative blogger, and then by the red meat-eaters at the National Post and by certain testo-adled radio talk show hosts.
And late on Thursday, the PMO and the prime minister became involved. The Conservative party web site carried my picture, referred to the pile-on noted above and said, “In a time when Canadians should be rallying behind our men and women in uniform, it is ignorant and outrageous for an opportunistic Opposition MP to instead accuse them of targeting and killing civilians.”
Now, can you see the evolution of a slur? From a local misguided Conservative embellishing a newspaper quote to the government party of Canada stating without reservation that I accused Canadian troops “of targeting and killing civilians.”
Should we all be afraid yet?
Since the letter writer, the bloggers, the radio guys, the newspaper columnist, the prime minister or anyone else offering a comment were not in the actual meeting, and since my words were not recorded (only reported), I thought you might be interested in this.
Reverend John Benham, of Milton, was there. He filed this with the local paper today, and sent me a copy:
I have to disagree with the May 13th letter to the editor criticizing MP Garth Turner for his so called slur against the character of Canadian men and women serving in Afghanistan.
I believe Mr. Turner was taken out of context.
I don’t doubt for a minute that Mr. Turner supports our troops as they serve our country for the principles of freedom and democracy. All our prayers are with our military personnel including their families at home
I along with my colleague were grateful that our MP would hold a Halton Faith Leaders Roundtable gathering for the purpose of listening to leaders from various communities of faith. The gathering was a time of open and honest conversation about the social and moral concerns within the Halton region.
Near the conclusion of the meeting, Mr. Turner attempted to name the many “contradictions” in our society. I think he was deepening the conversation by pointing out how extremely challenging it is to address the many needs within our society with limited funding.
Some may judge his comparison of a military “shell” and “youth centers” as poor, but in my mind he never intended to criticize our Canadian forces. Instead, I think our MP was being honest by clearly naming the incredible challenges our leaders and communities face when trying to work for improving the quality of life for all people.
Rev. John Benham
So, there’s another aspect to this tale. There may be a difference between the Reverend and a Conservative blogger, maybe even our prime minister. I think it’s called ethics.
152 comments ↓
And you Sir, have all the ethics required …..when they suit you.
Garth,
Even though I haven’t followed this story very closely, I give any credence to there being any/much validity to what was reported beyond a ’slip up’ in verbiage.
Certainly I know that you didn’t mean to imply (based upon the comments quoted in that paper) that Canadian soldiers were somehow, willfully blowing up villages.
But as I’m sure that you know, this game of politics is a blood sport…
Ed the Hun
‘Get on with it,’ Ontario tells Ottawa on Caledonia
KAREN HOWLETT
Globe and Mail Update
May 15, 2008 at 4:01 PM EDT
TORONTO — Ontario Aboriginal Affairs Minister Michael Bryant is calling on the federal government to live up to its responsibilities to aboriginal Canadians by setting a deadline to resolve the long-simmering standoff between native and non-native protesters in Caledonia.
“The Harper government needs to get on with it and stop hesitating,” Mr. Bryant told reporters this morning.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080515.wbrycaledon0515/BNStory/National/home
It sounds like you are smarting from being unfairly treated, but it seems to happen all the time in politics. More times than I can count, I have heard the opposition misquote and take out of context remarks by government members and the Prime Minister. I think even you have been responsible for some of these. Lately the majority of questions from the opposition have been about attempting to smear the government… ‘the anatomy of a smear’, indeed. I don’t recall government members going to the lengths you have to try to set the records straight.
Harper has never been good with the truth. Oh, he skirts around it now and then and even tries to practise some truthiness, but he never quite gets it right. But we have to forgive him for he is blinded by his one all-consuming belief: “You’re either with me or against me”.
Hey Garth,
We should never worry about what the Conservatives say. They’ve been playing the smear card for the last 2 years, and where has it brought them? Nowhere!
The Grits and the Cons are still in deadlock, poll after poll, and they appear to be losing support where it counts: Quebec and Ontario. The reason? Canadians aren’t as stupid as Conservative strategists play them out to be. They know the difference between substance and spin, and they’ll always vote for substance.
Cheers.
posted by Garth Turner on 05.15.08 @ 10:02 pm
To recap: I held a session for 24 local faith leaders on moral issues confronting me as an MP and we as a people. In my concluding remarks I questioned our public allotment of resources when our forces fire artillery shells worth $150,000 in Afghanistan (pictured above), and yet we lack the funding for a troubled youth drop-in centre in Milton. In saying the shells were used solely to demolish targets, including ‘Afghan villages’, I assumed my audience would understand those would be Taliban locations. After all, why else blow them up?
…………………………………
Fair enough, Garth … but I think you should put it on the weblog record and list those 24 local faith leaders so we can put your words in full context to the participants of your Round Table group. Since a local reporter attended the meeting I assume it’s on the public record somewhere.
Also in a previous article you stated:
Two weeks ago I held a Roundtable on Moral Issues in Halton with twenty-four faith leaders – Christian, Muslim and others – to get their opinion on challenges facing me as a Parliamentarian. One of those, of course, was the war in Afghanistan, which they opposed with conviction.
…………………………………
Again I would certainly like to know the names of the 24 Halton faith leaders who “opposed [the war] with conviction”. You have referred to them twice, but there is no mention who they are. Can you oblige us on this matter … because all we now have it the word of a Reverend John Benham of Milton, of unknown denomination??
Thanks …
Didn’t Bob Rae say that the CPC and social conservatives will deliver a figurative bat to the head (or something to that effect) when given the opportunity?
Austin
Listen here Garth. A shell like the one you picture or an aerial bomb can’t discriminate between a Taliban insurgent and the 3-year old kid in the mud hut next door. Villagers live in villages, Garth. Men, women and kids. You bombard a village, you kill men, women and kids.
Why would you do that? Because you’re part of a half-assed effort by a gaggle of countries that won’t send a fraction of the force needed so that they could secure those villages and those men, women and kids, so the Taliban couldn’t use them for cover and PR when they’re slaughtered.
Garth, if you’re so damned concerned, or even remotely concerned, read the supposedly great General Petraeus’ counterinsurgency field manual FM3-24. It’s available at no charge on the internet.
You’ll see what you and your fellow MPs have avoided so diligently – that the type of war we’re fighting – war on the cheap – can’t help but kill these civilians.
You know Garth, there’s a principle common to law in Western civilization that holds you’re deemed to intend the logical consequences of your acts. The logical consequence of aerial or artillery bombardment of Afghan villages is the slaughter of innocent men, women and children. That’s the logical consequence and we know it. We might wish it wasn’t but we put those wishes,and our consciences, aside when we fire those rounds or drop those bombs among those villagers.
Here’s something you should look into, Garth. Find out what the lethal radius is of one of those shells you’ve pictured. It kills everyone within several hundred feet of ground zero. Everyone Garth.
So I have no sympathy with your whining about what conservatives allege about you. My sympathy is all used up with the Afghan people caught sleeping when those shells arrive on target.
You may have switched parties but you’re more Conservative than you know.
In military parlance you and this blog are what is known as a target rich environment(TRE)
You have a huge target painted on your back as the con-bots hatred of you is pathological so much so they despise you more than Mr.Dion .I question the sanity of the entire group .
Use tape for all your meetings. Get it on the electronic record .
It is necessary to combat the con-bot operatives that are out to get you at any cost .
You are target number one . Make no mistake .
Sorry garth you created this all on your own. Not PM Harper, not the reporter, and not some conservative blogger. Garth turner all by himself. Now try standing up like a man and admit your mistake, instead of being the pompass ass you always are.
This reminds me of the time you did a Townhall and the Conblog people tried to say that you rude to a veteran.. which you weren’t.. it almost makes one want to put all these townhalls on audio/video so that people can’t blog hearsay and nonsense..
Here is an interesting account of how the cancongov spins
In Depth
Spin Cycles: Calling Dr. Spin
Interview with Dan Miles
Director of Communications to the Minister of Finance
February 2, 2007
CBC News
IB: Was there something about your experience as a TV journalist that you thought you could bring to the table when you switched over to political communications?
DM: No question about it! As a journalist you learn the system, you learn how to grab a sound bite, you look for things, you recognize what a story is! What makes a story, and what is important, the important elements of a story. And quite frankly those are elements that are quite valuable when you get to the government’s side of the table. I think that the biggest thing that the communications on the government’s side can bring to the table and what they try to focus on is anticipation. You have to be able to anticipate the question, and then you have to be able to anticipate the issue and then you can go from there to try to craft a message to try and get you message out… “put out the fire” so to speak.
IB: Take me through the process of what happens when you are about to roll out a major policy announcement.
DM: Clearly I mean, to me the foundation has got to be the policy and it’s got to be a good policy. I’ve had in the time that I’ve worked in government I’ve seen the challenges posed by trying to communicate a bad policy. And it is very difficult if you have a good sound policy to work with then you know, you are ahead of the game so to speak. But that is only the beginning! You could have the greatest policy in the world but if it is not communicated properly, or not communicated at all people are not going to know about it, and it is not going to serve the purpose and the people of the province or the country and it certainly its not going to serve the government or the party well! You start with a good solid policy and then you dissect that policy and see what are important to people because that is was really resonates. What is important to folks in Ontario, or out in rural Ontario whatever your policy might be. And then you cease on those, and its not unlike a journalist, you ask yourself; what is the lede* . You know, as a journalist you never bury the lede. That is a cardinal rule. You take the opposite side and you want to lede with the lede. Basically what you are trying to do for journalist is to make it easy, and make your lede their lede. That is a crucial part of what we do.
[*Editor's note: "lede" is common shorthand for the "lead" as in "the lead or first story in the newscast." It is spelled that way to avoid confusion with the metallic element called lead.]
IB: It’s interesting that you should say that because in the press release you issued at the time of the income trust announcement your lead was about tax fairness. I can see why you would want that to be the headline because it is a better headline for you, but it struck me that you had buried the lede there.
DM: Well I mean, income trust, there was a lot of focus on it as simple stand-alone issue. But I mean from our prospective this is about tax fairness! The whole idea, the whole reason minister Flaherty did what he did was to level the playing field between trusts and corporations and also to provide tax relief to some of the senior folks who have invested in income trusts and would have been affected by this announcement. To us, the whole idea, the headline of this is tax fairness that is the motive behind the policy here
IB: Well that’s what you wanted the headline to be. You wanted to steer reporters in that direction.
DM: Well clearly, if I may from my perspective is to be good at what we do, we have to make it as easy as possible for journalist. They shouldn’t have to be reaming through reading pages and pages and paragraphs of material to try and find what we are trying to tell them. What it is that you are trying to communicate to the people of Canada. If I can go back to tax fairness for a second, it was about the package! Ultimately, a lot of people focus on one component of the package. But tax fairness is about the package of items including income trust, including leveling the playing field, including corporate tax cuts, including pension splitting for seniors, and including a reduction in the age credit for seniors. So it was more than just one thing but obviously reporters and business reporters have focused on just one element of the package.
IB: What about preparing the Minister for the questions he is going to be asked and other preparations for the rollout?
John Baird
DM: Well once you have the policy, then you have identified the components of the policy you that you think are front and centre and are important to people and what are going to resonate with people. Then you determine what it is that is going to help portray that; what is going to help paint the picture in the minds of Canadians. What will help you paint that picture? Then you develop an event. And this depends on the gravity and importance of the policy, as there are a number of factors that determine what your event is going to be. And then if it is deemed that is to be of great significant then obviously you are going to develop and event and what is the picture of that event going to be? This is crucially important because at the end of the day it is going to be the picture that is painted that will be in the minds of Canadians. If I can use our drug treatment event as an example; on any given day we are competing with 100’s of news items coming in from around the world especially in the world that we live in today where everything can come from satellite and online so competition is quite fierce to gain attention in the media and with the drug treatment even that we did, clearly it was a controversial policy and it was something that wanted to portray to get across to people of the importance, and we wanted to grab their attention, and that Is exactly what we did. It is something that to this day people are talking about. And minister Baird wondered how the conversation went, it was a Sunday morning if I recall correctly and I was in the office and he was on the phone, and he said we needed to do something with needles because this was obviously the instrument creating the problem. So we had a chat about it, and basically I said we cannot use needles it’s just not fees able! Because of disease so we couldn’t do it, so we used brand new hypodermic needles and I said you’ve got to paint the picture, you’ve got to reach your hands into the box and grab a 2 big handful of these needles and deliver your lines, deliver the message and then just drop them and they would scatter and flow all over the table. That is something to this day that people remember.
IB: You knew that would be a powerful image that it would be on all the newscasts.
DM: Yea! Well I didn’t know it would be on all the newscasts but I knew that it would grab their attention I knew it was something they could not ignore. And it was something that was a startling image but I think it got the message across, it basically allowed people to see how serious we were. About the policy but also about the problem, how serious the problem was and it was a groping visual image
IB: What about the wallpaper, the image we see behind the Minister?
DM: Well I mean wallpaper, whether you are watching the football game on Sunday or newscast or event newscast; it’s within your picture. It provides another element. So in this day of instant news and instant media, you know you can look at the picture and know exactly what it is about
IB: And a lot of people watch TV with the sound off anyway.
DM: Well that’s true, it’s absolutely true! But in this day when people are really really busy and we’ve got competing news papers and competing internet and we’ve got competing wires and so on and so forth, you know people don’t have the time to sit down and spend hours reading through stuff. People quite often skim and, and look at pictures and read headlines and the whole point is so that when someone looks at that picture they know exactly what it is about. They don’t have to spend a whole lot of time about it. They can look at the picture and say yea ok! It is about the giants, I see their logo in the background.
IB: And sometimes you have to get complex issues down into 2 or 3 words.
DM: You are talking about the headlining, yea right? And quite frankly its important to be able to communicate something in terms that resonate with people but also simply and effectively and that comes down to not a lot of verbiage something that you can boil down into something that they can remember, something that grabs them. Certainly you want to provide more information, but you want to catch their interest initially. And if you don’t catch their interest initially, they are never going to read about your policy anyway. But you’ve got to grab them and then they’ll go “oh, maybe I’ll read more about that! That sounds interesting!”
IB: What about the talking points? How do you come up with the talking points and how are they used?
DM: Again it depends on your event, on how significant your event is. Lately, in the current job that I have been doing, the talking points could be anything from 10-minute brief remarks to the budget speech and those are what I have had to work on lately in the coarse of my responsibilities here. Basically what you want to do is to articulate the policy and you want to weave in some of those lines that are going to grab people’s attention. Some of those lines that when you guys are out there and you hear a recording and you say “wow, that is my sound bite” I mean you actually identify some of those, and you say ok, here I am going to explain the policy and then I am going to throw in a nice sound bite because I know that is what you are looking for and that is what I am looking to get on the news to try to articulate our policy.
IB: And so you help the Minister craft the sound bites?
DM: Yea, there is no question! The minister and all the ministers I’ve worked with they were all very effective at it and they recognized what a sound bite was and quite frankly it comes back to from my perspective, the job of the journalist that much easier. That is my job, to make your job easier. And if I can make your job easier then you can look at our policy look at our event, look at what we do a little more favorably
IB: You say you want to make our job easier, but you don’t get much appreciation for that. You get called a spin-doctor and what not. Not much thanks for that.
DM: You know I was on your side of the fence for quite some times and you are a little cynical, there is no question about it! But you know I’ve got my job and you’ve got your job and my job is to communicate a policy and your job is to try and determine if I am feeding you a bill of goods or trying to get to the bottom of the policy and 00004000 let people know if it is a good policy or if there are flaws in it or whatever. My job is to try and articulate to Canadians the benefits of our policy. Your job is to in a fair and balanced way to extend that to Canadians and perhaps provide them with a bit of commentary.
IB: Going back to the drug policy announcement, did it come off the way you wanted it to?
DM: That was reported in the wall street journal. It was reported on the national news right across the country on every channel. It made it in the newspaper! So you know the policy it self was a first it was controversial so obviously the policy was very controversial to journalists so we positioned in a way that certainly grabbed everybody
IB: People who do what you do are commonly called spin-doctors. How do you react when people call you that?
DM: I laugh, spin-doctor? No I don’t consider myself a spin-doctor really you know the fact is that we are about communicating government policy. My job is to insure that Canadians understand and that they get the benefit what we are doing. I am a member of the government but at the end of the day it is about articulating. If we cannot got Canadians to A) learn about the policy and know about the policy then how at the end of the day are they going to measure our success as a government so we have to try to effectively communicate a policy to people so that at the end of our mandate they know that we have done something.
They know the difference between substance and spin, and they’ll always vote for substance.
Cheers.
By george on 05.15.08 10:48 pm
Sorry George, I wish your statement where true but sadly it’s not.
The sheeple out there who VOTE as often as not don’t even know the name of their candidate. They see the name of the party and “its what my dad voted so its good enought for me” and that’s the real ruin of Canada.
Don’t believe that? Just stand outside of the polling station next election and listen to people as they exit.
Me cynical? You bet.
Ya but….. Harpo’s CONs were going to do things “differently”. They were going to be bring accountability to government.
Bawhahahahahahahahaha!
Kip makes a good point. While the cons may have one of the most organised smearing systems around, they are hardly the only ones guilty of it in politics. And I think many of us are guilty of cheering on the smear when we think it will help ‘our side.’ But we all lose in the end.
There may be a difference between the Reverend and a Conservative blogger, maybe even our prime minister. I think it’s called ethics.
You are being far too kind Garth.
Do the Conservatives realize how many voters are repelled by the Conservative attack-dog behaviour? Probably not. Let them work themselves into a lather and end up in opposition. a good place for them.
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
The CONS are still a MINORITY government with an OPPOSITION mentality…and it seems so are there supporters….let’s hope we can put them back on track mentally…
EDITORIAL
Smear tactics in Ottawa
May 15, 2008
Just how low are Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives prepared to stoop to get the better of their political critics? Pretty low, it would appear
—-
Failed war on terrorism on display
May 15, 2008
Haroon Siddiqui
Some of the disastrous consequences of George W. Bush’s foreign policy, and therefore Stephen Harper’s, are on display this week in Israel, Lebanon, Pakistan and elsewhere.
The president’s pledge to create a Palestinian state has now been downgraded to the creation of a “description” of a state by the end of his term
—–
THE LIBERALS
TheStar.com | comment | Yes, they can win an election
Dion needs to play to his strengths and portray Harper’s Tories as too right wing for Canada
May 15, 2008
David Herle
Despite the fact that most polls show the Liberals and Conservatives very close to each other in public support, the conventional wisdom in political and media circles is that the Liberals will not win the next election. To see the Liberals twisting themselves into knots to avoid an election indicates – to the frustration of some and the elation of others – that even the Liberals themselves have begun to internalize this conventional wisdom
——
The May 15th articles in the Star play music to my ears.
I am patiently waiting for the fall. Hopefully by then there will be formal criminal charges for the Conservative 2006 election funding, the Cadman affair will have resurfaced and a host of other issues will enable Canadians to clearly see the deceit of this government.
Garth
Your point about the price of ordinance & the lack of funding for programs in this country (900,000 starving children daily is another example) is right on the money.
Don`t let these clowns sway you from your opinion.
You are right —they are wrong.
Dr Mike Popovich– former-life-long Conservative.
Good Morning Canada………
Please take time to sit and reflect just how nasty the NeoConservatives can be, Yesterday the “King” himself, George Dubya Bush stood on the world stage at time of what should have been a time for heartfelt reflection to a sad past event and celebration of triumph to play dirty underhanded politics in true NEO CON style.
Yesterday Canadians witness what is in store from the Bush’s Ottawa camp, under the direction of our Bully on the Hill when Neo Cons are cornered and threatened with the truth. Take a deep breath Garth, be still and gather your thoughts and use all the fee media time to your advantage to get the true message out to Canada. If you get at chance to sneak it in ask the Neo Cons what plans they have families of suicide victim’s, now above 36 and the hundreds now suffering from PTSD….now that they have brought Support the Troops on the table, or do they just mean Support the Troop only as long as they are on the firing line. Oh yea then there are all those WW II and Koren vets plus 1000’s of others waiting to hear from DVA. Yup $150,000 shells bought from who, in what tendered contract? Hell is the media out there investing?
Of course the people don’t want war…that is understood. But voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Goering
The system of institutions is still grander and more computerized, but it seems to have lost its morale. The baronial corporations are making immense amounts of money and are more openly and heavily subsidized by the monarch in Washington. The processing of the young is extended for longer years and its tempo speeded up. More capital and management are exported, interlocking within international capital and more of the world (including Canada) is brought under American control. When necessary, remarkable military technology is brought to bear. At home, there is no political check, for no matter what the currents of opinion, by and large the dominant system wreaks its will, managing the parliamentary machinery to look like consensus.
Paul Goodman, The Empty Society, Massy Lectures 1966!
I want my Canada Back! I love those words, yes Ladies and Gentlemen, the Canada that we grew grew up in, the Canada I was raised in with all it faults, the Canada I was proud of, the Canada where we had leadership not “Dictatorship” not where the Bully on the Hill is more concerned about the “White House” rather than “Our House”". I want my children and grandchildren to have at minimum the standard of living I enjoyed. A Canada where I turned on a TV and the PM of Canada was talking to Canadians, not talking down to Canadians. My Canada is unique not in the image of George “Dubya” Bush but in the memories of gallant men and women who came to-gether from coast to coast to coast and fought for freedom of speech and for the right to be heard via there elected representative in Ottawa. Not a controller, who has trained his sheep to sit and listen, spells out rules of what to say, where to say it and to whom to talk to. Dam it I want my Canada back, the question is do you?
Give em HELL Garth those lying idiots need to thrown in the can and fired in the next round.
We have one of their major numbskulls out here and i can can tell you what ODA do with limo’s in that town sure would help our tax levy
But looking forward there sure as hell has to be better days on the hill
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
By Harry S on 05.16.08 1:26 am
Now we have Harry promoting the assasination of the leader of the opposition. If I am not mistaken, that is the threat of a terrorist and should be reported to CSIS. Will you, Garth, be reporting this threat to the proper authorities?
“It will take more than a fistful of new policies — a carbon tax, an anti-poverty strategy, or a boost in foreign aid — to defeat Stephen Harper’s Conservatives in the next election. And it will definitely take more than defensive expressions of outrage and hurt.
“If Liberals (or the liberal-left generally) want to disable the Tory machine, they will have to reframe the national debate — starting, perhaps, by substituting optimism, scrupulous fairness and tolerance of other views for the strident, fear-based, divisive dialogue Harper has used so effectively. This means, in part, not reacting to unrelenting, often unfair, attacks from Harper’s caucus picadors. Instead, ‘progressives’ need to dismiss the yapping dogs and vigorously promote a green, prosperous, generous vision of our collective future.”
That is the opening of a must-read for all interested in Canadian politics, Susan Riley’s “Beating Harper” column in to-day’s “Ottawa Citizen” at http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=53ac1309-a75b-49a5-8464-449e22e5a104
I don’t know how the plan or “steak” is coming along (is that a sizzle or a fizzle, Garth?) but Riley points out what a lot of Canadians find objectionable in politics as practiced since 6 Feb 2006. Take her advice, Liberals, and restore political peace, order and good government. As Susan Riley concludes,
“Ultimately, Harper’s appeal is self-limiting, because his Canada excludes anyone who disagrees. But he will keep pounding away, fuelled by his inexhaustible anger, until someone reclaims not the hammer, but the high ground.”
In my opinion the military today is simply a political pawn for the Conservative agenda. The Conservative foreign policy is based on an extreme form of militarism.
I recommend everyone that everyone read Harper’s May 12 speech to get to know the direction he would take this country. Remember that the $30 billion is merely the military operating budget he is projecting and given the “all things to all people” military policy he set forth that will merely be a drop in the bucket of the actual cost. The equiptment budget is something in the range of another $50 billion, and analysts estimate that estimate is about half of the actual cost.
His plan is to turn the Canadian economy into a war machine that “will provide good jobs and new opportunities for thousands, for tens of thousands of Canadians who work in defence industries and communities with military bases.”
If the period of the Cold War was “decade of darkness for the Canadian Forces” as Harper claims, Harper’s May 12 speech represents to me a new era of darkness for the Canada and Canadians.
His vision of Canada is not my Canada.
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
By Harry S on 05.16.08 1:26 am
Harry S – are advocating an assassination here? Whoa, this is way too low, way to disturbing and one should keep an eye on you.
Canada’s natural opposition party
May 16, 2008 04:30 AM
Chantal Hébert
OTTAWA – In theory, the last 26 months should have been an exciting time for federal policy wonks.
When Stephen Harper came to power on the heels of more than a decade of Liberal rule, the sense that Canada’s politics was in dire need of a second breath extended far beyond the circle of his supporters.
In that context, the advent of a new government under a clear-headed prime minister seemed to be just what a public policy doctor would have ordered for a brain-cramped federal capital. After all, past Conservative governments had never lacked the courage to think big.
And, in Canada, minority governments have often been synonymous with landmark achievements.
But, with the notable exception of the Afghan mission, the 39th Parliament has so far been marked by a dismal absence of give-and-take between the government and the opposition. There now prevails between the parties a level of animosity that is inversely proportional to the issues that are at stake in their daily exchanges.
And while the opposition often sets the tone in the Commons, the government contributes to its deterioration by exhibiting a chronic deficit of policy ambition combined with a surplus of go-for-the-jugular politics.
It routinely seems more preoccupied with putting a wrench in the spokes of government than with operating its machinery to its advantage.
The result is that many of those who originally welcomed the Conservatives as potential agents of liberation are now feeling that they are operating under a government that has the reflexes of an occupation force.
A few of my fellow columnists argue that the problem is that election optics have come to colour every government move, and they have a point.
But if electoral calculations alone were at the root of the Conservative rationale, surely a correction would already have taken place. More than halfway through a first mandate, Harper has failed to build on support that barely gave him enough seats to form a minority government in 2006. Polls suggest that if Stéphane Dion had found his sea legs, or if the Liberals had selected a more certain leader, the Conservatives would be facing the humiliating prospect of a swift return to the opposition benches.
Because the Liberals see themselves as Canada’s natural governing party, they have historically had a hard time performing constructively in opposition. But what if the reverse were true of today’s Conservatives?
In its Reform incarnation, Harper’s party provided a lot of the policy impetus of the last Liberal era, notably on the fiscal, justice and unity fronts. But now that the Conservatives are in power, they do not seem to be able to make the psychological transition from opposition to government.
One of the common threads to their adversarial dealings with the media, the public service and the institutions of Parliament is that power has exacerbated their opposition instincts.
Part of the reason for this self-defeating state of affairs may be that the Prime Minister and his coterie of advisers hail from the protest side of the conservative movement.
It is the first time in modern Canadian history that the right wing of the Conservative party produced a prime minister. Whatever institutional memory of government the party may have rests with its progressive wing. But while not all so-called Red Tories have opted to stay out of the tent, in Harper’s peculiar world, they are often as suspect as the Liberals.
http://www.thestar.com/Canada/Columnist/article/425993
“So, there’s another aspect to this tale. There may be a difference between the Reverend and a Conservative blogger, maybe even our prime minister. I think it’s called ethics.”
posted by Garth Turner on 05.15.08 @ 10:02 pm |
Its not called ethics, Garth. Its called politics.
The good reverend is not quoting anything said in the meeting but just giving his impression of you. It is no more or less valid than the young reporter you dissed without clarifying what it was he reported in error. We don’t know the reverends politics. For all we know he may be your clergyman coming to your rescue. All we know is 2 people reported 2 different things from a meeting.
You see Garth, you love to give unfounded and erroneous commentary on the conservatives, especially the PM and Flaherty. You shouldn’t be surprized if you have the political bullseye on your back. You jumped into the political pool of smear and now you are all dirty.
That’s for clarifying that. By the way, what “unfounded and erroneous” things did I say about Mr. Flagerty or Mr. Harper? Links? — Garth
EDITORIAL
TheStar.com
Unveil Canada’s defence strategy
May 16, 2008 04:30 AM
Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s obsession with controlling the message, and his penchant for secrecy, are jeopardizing what should be one of his prouder legacies: Rebuilding Canada’s military.
In Halifax this week, Harper and Defence Minister Peter MacKay rolled out the long-awaited Canada First Defence Strategy, with an announcement that Ottawa plans to make $30 billion in “total investments” in the Canadian Forces over the next generation. That turned out to be more than a little misleading. And so Lt.-Gen. Walter Natynczyk, the vice-chief of defence staff, was soon called upon to provide the clarity that Harper and MacKay had not.
As it turns out, Canada will not spend $30 billion on new fighter aircraft, warships, combat vehicles and other equipment, Natynczyk confirmed. The real cost will be far higher: Up to $50 billion.
This disclosure triggered an uproar in Parliament yesterday, with Stéphane Dion’s Liberals demanding a coherent explanation.
There is one, but Harper chose not to provide it in Halifax.
Bringing Canada’s base defence budget up to $30 billion in 2031, from $20 billion in 2011, will require annual increases of 2 per cent. That adds up, over time, to a $100 billion total cumulative new investment. That’s where Gen. Natynczyk gets the $50 billion figure. Roughly half of defence spending goes to capital purchases.
So, in truth, Harper could and should have announced a $100 billion “total investment” in the military, with $50 billion going to hardware, when he unveiled his strategy. But perhaps he felt even Conservative supporters might recoil in sticker shock. In any event, Harper played up the base budget, without going into the implications.
Parliament, already in a stir over the $50 billion figure, went into a paroxysm over $100 billion. Understandably, the Liberals and others are now pressing the Conservatives to table the background documents on which the strategy hinges. They want to know what the real figures are, what that money will buy, and when.
Given the confusion Harper has sown, it’s a fair request.
And apart from withholding the figures, the Conservatives have yet to unveil any coherent strategic vision for the military, for what the Canadian Forces will be tasked to do in the next quarter-century. The Tories appear to be spending faster than they are thinking.
Make no mistake. Major investments are needed. Harper’s plan to increase the military to 100,000 regulars and reservists makes sense. And rust-out is a real problem. Even at $30 billion, Canada will spend less on the military than many of our allies.
But the Conservatives should level with the people who are footing the bill. That would be us. Let’s see the vision, and the spending plan.
Re: the smear
Its never easy being the target of gossip.
Re: election talk
for a little perspective, the CPC,CA,PC percent popular vote totals for the last five elections…
1993 – 34.7
1997 – 38.2
2000 – 37.7
2004 – 29.6
2006 – 36.3
so its not like the general public has changed all that much.
I support our troops and I support our men and women in uniform. There are many different uniforms.
Yesterday, the RCMP Psychologist, Dr Mike was being questioned on the Taser affairs inquiry. He told Canadians just how it was with RCMP brass and Harper.
Police State? Hmmm. Now using, once again, a back drop of our trrops, for their photo op.
Our soldiers are coming home and most suffer Post Tramatic Stress Disorder; suicide rates are up, family violence is up, soldiers are coming home with missing limbs etc.
Fighting for Opium and Oil makes it right to be fighting in a dead end war.
I wonder if Julie Couillard is feeling somewhat villified now that the heat is on someone else. Garth your bosses were more than willing to make a spectacle of her, and had no concern for anyone other than themselves. At this time she has been charged with nothing or has been in the past. At least what you are being attacked for was brought on by your own theatrics.
Speaking at a community gathering of faith leaders is ‘theatrics’? Are you guys this afraid of me? — Garth
Anyone else find it odd, and just too coincidental that both Harper and Bush made partisan speeches at the Isreal – 50th Anniversary? Harper interfering with US politics and/or copying Bush – did they decide this together? Odd….hmmm……
Interesting too – Bush’s stupidity. After all he wouldn’t be part of one of US’s rich families if his grandfather (Prescott Bush)wasn’t one of Hitler’s bankers. Also, Bush not realize that Chamberlain was a Conservative?
I’m sorry, but this is too eerily coincidenal.
Hey, anyone alert the RCMP about Harry S’s remarks?
Dion’s credibility shot on carbon tax
Don’t believe it will be revenue-neutral, and don’t believe it won’t hurt producers
Lorne Gunter, The Edmonton Journal
Published: 2:02 am
For at least two years now, Liberal Leader Stephane Dion has been clear — emphatic even — there will be no carbon tax if his party wins the next federal election with him at the helm.
Of course, he was being disingenuous about that sometimes. For instance, last spring he suggested that instead of a carbon tax, the country’s 700 largest carbon emitters might be charged a carbon fee.
On a practical level, there would be no difference. A gouging, punitive, regressive tax by any other name would still be a gouging, punitive, regressive tax.
Still, on a dozen or more occasions, Dion has pledged never to introduce a carbon tax.
In June 2006, during the first Liberal leadership debate, Dion scoffed when Michael Ignatieff said a carbon tax “would do more to address climate change and help us be good stewards of our environment than any other measure.” Then, as now, Dion was a passionate defender of the Kyoto accord and even he rejected the notion that a carbon tax could help reduce emissions to the levels mandated by the UN’s global-warming accord.
Weeks later, when he released his campaign platform it referred to a tax on the production or consumption of fossil fuels as “simply bad policy.”
Also, Dion told the National Post’s editorial board in November 2006 (just weeks before he was selected as Liberal leader), if he ever became prime minister he would not even consider a carbon tax, because “for Albertans it’s a non-starter.”
He claimed in the Globe and Mail to have “always been against” a carbon tax. He had “other ways” to achieve emission reductions — mostly investment in new energy-saving technologies and tax incentives for individuals and businesses that reduced their carbon footprints.
Dion did say he wanted to establish a link between Canadians’ pocketbooks and the environment — between “your wallet and the planet,” in his words — but not by taking money out of those wallets, but rather by fattening them up with government cash.
Within weeks of becoming Liberal boss, Dion rushed to Alberta to assure the Journal’s editorial board, among others, that there would never be a carbon tax if he had his way.
I wrote at the time that I didn’t believe him. His plan, regardless of what he was going to call its components, would hit Alberta disproportionately hard and as such amounted to a carbon tax. Dion wrote our editors insisting “the plan I will reveal soon to decrease Canada’s industrial greenhouse gases will not include a carbon tax. I have said that I will be the best partner for Alberta and I mean it.”
Even this past winter, speaking to an Alberta audience, Dion assured the crowd he had two “bottom lines”: “there will be no carbon tax” and the profits earned by Albertans in the current energy boom “will stay in Alberta.”
So, of course, what has Dion proposed this week? A carbon tax.
Sure, the Liberal leader says his I-will-never-impose-a-carbon-tax tax will be revenue neutral, meaning for every dollar raised by his tax another tax will be lowered by the same amount. But I think he’s shot his credibility on the carbon-tax front. So excuse me, at the risk of provoking him to write another “best partner for Alberta” letter to my editors, I don’t believe him.
I am wondering if Dion’s change of position on a Carbon Tax is considered as different than when Harper has a changed mind on a subject? Foe many Harper must be held to every word and position he has had since he began to speak but Dion —- he is wonderfully evolving!!!!!
Whoops – typo – meant to say 60TH Anniversary.
And, interesting too – the US and Canada fought Hitler under “Democratic and Liberal” governments.
I’ll take the Reverends words over the slanderous NeoCons anytime.To Harper and co.,maybe it’s time to practice what you have been preaching.Be honest for once,you might like it.So much for the religious right within the CPC,hypocracy reigns supreme,n’est-ce pas,eh!
Garth
I guess it’s not surprising that the PMO would latch on to the attack. This blog has given people a forum from across the country. While we all show our political stripes and sometimes it gets nasty – for the most part a conversation is going on.
And we are far informed.
So on the topic of smears please read SkiPPy’s member’s statement yesterday. Ignore the usual insults of M. Dion and see what kind of smear he uses directed to Elections Canada.
Hansard May 15, 2008
Member Statements
Skippy (Nepean-Carleton CPC)
Mr. Speaker, the Canada Elections Act says that all loans for leadership contestants must be repaid within 18 months and failure to do so is a violation of the act.
The Liberal leader is said to have almost a million dollars in outstanding leadership debts, owed to wealthy elites and powerful insiders. If he does not repay these debts by the June 3 deadline, they become illegal donations over the donation limit.
The only escape is if Elections Canada steps in to protect the Liberal leader with preferential treatment and an extension.
Canadians will watch closely. Will the Liberal leader break the law by accepting illegal donations and, if so, will Elections Canada protect the Liberal leader with preferential treatment?
This is a little rich even for this blog. For you to cry outrage complaining you were taken out of context after all the crap you have posted on this blog about Mr. Flaherty and the PM just shows what a sniffling little crybaby you really are. If you can’t stand the heat then perhaps it is time for this blog to be put to bed. What goes around comes around and I for one am really sick and tired of your constant whining and reading your lap dog posters. Lets have an election and get your sorry ass out of parliament. One question===Do you have any friends in any party that actually associate with you?
Anyone can critique the cost of a military and blame the lack of social programs on military expenses – an easy target. Take a look at the world, There is a military in most all countries in the world – “their own OR some elses in occupation.” Think about it!
Talking about trying to “divert” our attention – and that’s what it’s all about by Janke and the rest of the neo-con idiots.
None of our business eh?
From La Presse:
Bernier: questions unanswered
Le premier ministre Stephen Harper peut bien jouer les fanfarons aux Communes à propos des fréquentations de son ministre Maxime Bernier, certaines questions importantes attendent toujours une réponse. Prime Minister Stephen Harper may well play fanfarons in the Commons about his dating Minister Maxime Bernier, some important questions are still waiting for an answer.
En voici trois, pour commencer. Here are three to start.
Comment se fait-il que l’ancienne copine du ministre, Julie Couillard, ait demandé d’assister à certaines entrevues données par son ami de coeur (demande refusée par le gouvernement)? How is it that the former girlfriend of the minister, Julie Couillard, has asked to attend some interviews given by his friend song (request denied by the government)?
Pourquoi celle-ci at-elle demandé (autre requête refusée par le gouvernement) d’avoir accès à certaines réunions confidentielles du ministre Bernier? Why is it she asked (another request refused by the government) have access to certain confidential meetings of the Minister Bernier?
Comment expliquer que M. How to explain that Mr. Bernier et Mme Couillard, qui ne sont plus ensemble depuis “des mois” selon le bureau du premier ministre, aient été vus dans un restaurant d’Ottawa le 31 mars en compagnie du ministre Stockwell Day (le patron de la GRC!) et de Mme Day? Bernier and Ms. Couillard, who are no longer together for “several months” according to the office of prime minister, have been seen in a restaurant in Ottawa on March 31 with Minister Stockwell Day (the patron of the RCMP!) And Ms. Day?
…..interesting and become MORE and MORE of our business….
The diversions attempts can’t take away from the facts when they come out can they.
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway and not damage the neighbours .. and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems ..!!!!
By Harry S on 05.16.08 1:26 am
Now we have Harry promoting the assasination of the leader of the opposition. If I am not mistaken, that is the threat of a terrorist and should be reported to CSIS. Will you, Garth, be reporting this threat to the proper authorities?
By wjp on 05.16.08 6:51 am
I also agree with WJP. This person who goes by the name of Harry S has made a threat to kill the leader of the opposition Liberal Party of Canada and should be immediately reported to the authorities.
Get the RCMP involved. This is the first time I’ve read or heard of an individual supporting the assassination of a political leader. He’s a Harper supporter who is out of control and if this is a story for the press then our PM will go balistic.
Bonnie: From what I have heard, leadership candidates with outstanding debt only have to have a repayment plan in place by June 3.
Not sure if this is correct or not. Perhaps someone else knows.
Be a man for once and appologize…
“Do the Conservatives realize how many voters are repelled by the Conservative attack-dog behaviour?”
Do the Liberals? Far, far more ‘attack-dog behaviour’ from them then vice versa.
Speaking at a community gathering of faith leaders is ‘theatrics’? Are you guys this afraid of me? — Garth
We are not afraid of you. We want you out of office.
And you think this is the way to do it? Bite me. — Garth
We should never worry about what the Conservatives say. They’ve been playing the smear card for the last 2 years, and where has it brought them? Nowhere! By Georgs.
It was Garth Turner who smeared the military with his silly sassed comment, Not Harper nor any Conservative. Get it Garth Turner is the one who did the smearing and now it has bite him in the ass and he doesn’t like it. Well Garth should know that he reaps what he sews.
And you think this is the way to do it? Bite me. — Garth
No. You’re pig headed. Even air-tight logic won’t get you to do anything unless you want to do it.
And the “Bite Me” comment…
Very professional.
I emulate you. — Garth
So, there’s another aspect to this tale. There may be a difference between the Reverend and a Conservative blogger, maybe even our prime minister. I think it’s called ethics.
That and a brain capable of critical, instead of merely political, thinking.
Funny how people seem to not recognize the true fiscal costs of weapons and war, and just wave the flag, but then rant and rave over spending money to actually help our own people? Perhaps such do not grasp that both are funded with OUR tax dollars?
There is no War Fairy that pays for war…We DO! What could be done with each $150,000 spent on a GPS artillery shell to solve a problem on OUR soil?
You spoke correctly Garth. And it had nothing whatsoever to do with supporting our troops. I know you do, as do I.
For a little perspective, the CPC,CA,PC percent popular vote totals for the last five elections…
1993 – 34.7
1997 – 38.2
2000 – 37.7
2004 – 29.6
2006 – 36.3
so its not like the general public has changed all that much.
By Geiseric the Lame on 05.16.08 8:12 am
To be fair and balanced we must also look at the Liberals popular vote since 1993. Here it is.
1993 – 41.3%
1997 – 38.5 %
2000 – 40.8%
2004 – 36.7%
2006 – 30.3%
Things are a changing for the Liberals and it doesn’t bode well for them. The trend indicates a steady downward fall for them. All the polls since the last election that they are stuck at 2006 levels just as the Conservatives are.
I emulate you. — Garth
You wish…
From Dion: A beginning
(snip)
“Although Dion will undoubtedly want to keep some details close to his vest until an election campaign is underway, he promised to soon release his plan for this green shift in the economy in which no one is left behind. Then Canadians will be in a position to judge whether he can deliver the richer, greener, fairer society he outlined yesterday.
But even with so little detail, it seems clear that he aims to accomplish a lot more than Prime Minister Stephen Harper has done with his wasteful $12 billion cut in the goods and services tax.”
By Judy on 05.16.08 9:16 am
Yes this is true. I am sure M. Dion will repay his loans by that date.
The point of my posting is the smear that SkiPPy directed to Elections Canada. Read his statement carefully he is saying that Elections Canada would give M. Dion preferred treatment if Dion does not pay the entire loan.
This is an outrageous statement and a smear of Elections Canada.
I don’t recall government members going to the lengths you have to try to set the records straight.
By kip on 05.15.08 10:33 pm
Keep in mind, this isn’t just something that appeared on the blogs or in the national papers. This was an accusation made in the Milton Champion!
I don’t know how it compares with other towns, but a huge percentage of Miltonians read the local paper. They don’t just get it and toss it – they read it. The whole thing, twice a week. And items in the letters column are regular topics of conversation in the shops and the pubs and at church.
So yeah, something like this needs to be addressed and corrected quickly. This isn’t just a bunch of obsessive bloggers reading this – this is Garth’s constituency.
The state of defence planning in the our Cargo Cult Conservative Government:
Aaron Wherry, “The Commons: Who’s on first?”, http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/05/15/the-commons-whos-on-first/#more-1054
To add to the confusion, let a former staff officer point out that the cited and discussed O&M (Operations and Maintenance) “$30 billion over 20 years” could mean either an operating budget of 30 B each year for 20 years, or 1.5 B each year during the next 20 years, in the former case being totally unrealistic as well as unaffordable, and in the latter case not buying spit. It also could mean that the O&M budget in 2028 will be 30 B, as if anyone could predict this reliably to-day.
John 11,35 – “And Jesus wept.”
Funny how people seem to not recognize the true fiscal costs of weapons and war, and just wave the flag, but then rant and rave over spending money to actually help our own people? Perhaps such do not grasp that both are funded with OUR tax dollars?
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.16.08 9:37 am
And if I may add to that Bill, when the tax dollars run out this Reform/Cons. will create huge deficits and debt to pay for a military build up that most Canadians don’t want or need.
We should recognize the true fiscal costs of a military build-up because we just have to look south of the border.
First example that comes to mind is the neglect of New Orleans.
Slur’s such as this are common practice with “harper’s tories”. Any group of people who resort to their tactics to win support have little regard for anyone and to use our troops as a pawn in their games of deception is disgusting to this reader.Keep up the good work Garth,your tireless efforts to represent the people of Canada speak far louder than misquotes by a bunch of wanna-be con men.
By Van on 05.16.08 9:28 am,
Do our military use weapons that have a major potential for co-lateral damage? If they don’t why are the purchasing these weapons? If they use them, does opposing their use constitute a “smear”?
Remember Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s words on May 12 with regard to the military: “they need to do what we ask them to do.” In other words, when you criticize our military actions it a criticism of the political bosses who dictate the use of these kinds of weapons and dictate this kind of spending of our tax dollars.
There is no smear in disagreeing with this policy.
I disagree with the way the Prime Minister is using the troops as a partisan political tool for his own militaristic agenda. By making the military a partisan tool he makes it easy for those opposed to militarism to withdraw any support for our troops. If the military are willing pawns of a political party they don’t deserve public support.
An interesting idea.
Level the greenhouse
Given surging CO2 emissions from Asia, the only way to a level playing field is a tax imposed at product destination
John R. Allan And Thomas J. Courchene, Financial Post
Published: Thursday, May 15, 2008
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Business
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Competitive Enterprise Institute
Christopher Horner
John Allan
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Continuing media reports that Stephane Dion is poised to unveil a carbon tax as a major plank in his party’s electoral platform inevitably raise the issue of the adequacy of Canada’s efforts to curb greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and the viability of proposed remedies. As advocates of either carbon tariffs or taxes, we would like to comment briefly on some of the issues involved, most particularly on the need for such measures.
To put the debate in context, our advocacy of a carbon tariff — or, alternatively, to subject imports to a domestic carbon tax at the point of importation — stems from the failure of present international agreements to require developing nations to curb GHG emissions. Since these non-OECD countries now account for almost 55% of global emissions, and are experiencing emission growth at a rate almost 10 times that of the economically advanced economies, their exclusion is likely to render futile the attempts of the latter to curb their own emissions.
To read more see:
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=515378
This is an outrageous statement and a smear of Elections Canada.
By Bonnie N on 05.16.08 9:46 am
Of the MOST egregious and at the same time childish sort.
(For the Harrys and Catherines out there, “egregious”: outstandingly bad : flagrant.) (and stupid too.)
By Van on 05.16.08 9:38 am,
You need to also understand that the undecided vote is in the 30+ range and there is no data on the numbers that refuse to take part in polls at all. Basically, what the polls are measuring is the long term committed base vote for the parties which does not change a great deal over time.
The problem with smears like this one is it really does not matter much what retorts come after. It is the initial smear that gets the front page headline, in large print and all the attention. Retorts are lost within editorials, with small headlines if any, and often missed by the sheeple in the populace.
I do believe that the majority of Canadians are getting rather tired of all the CPC smears, and politicking at every opportunity. It is even creeping into interviews seen on TV, when relative independent reporters are getting glazed eyes with a “yadda yadda” non-answer all too often provided by the CONS.
There are even commonalities between Bush and Harper here. It seems Dubya is taking a page from Harper’s manual by criticizing the Democrats and Obama while speaking publicly in Israel. The difference is, the US press were all over Bush and the inappropriate comments. Yet, here, in Canada, the MSM simply grab the spectacular headline and let the Cons do their garbage.
We need change. We need to get rid of people who lower Canada’s public image by washing dirty laundry in public, and smearing others with half truths or creative editing of commentary.
I want OUR Canada back.
TGIF
Garth, when the good reverend wrote his letter to the editor of the little town news paper, did he know you would be using him as fodder in a national debate?
See, Garth, thats where this is now. Its no longer a handful of religious types in a small town meeting. Its now on national and international radio, news papers, internet, and the like. Did the reverend Benham know you would be pulling him into the coliseum where the hungry political lions are eager to devour all adversaries?
You don’t really care what collateral damage you inflict in your political aspirations, do you. Coilliard last week, the young reporter and the reverend Benham this week. Doesn’t matter to you and your liberals what carnage is left in the wake.
You call that leadership? You call that ethical? Only your present groupies think so.
Of course he knew. Do you have an actual point? — Garth
You spoke correctly Garth. And it had nothing whatsoever to do with supporting our troops. I know you do, as do I.
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.16.08 9:37 am
And what was one author saying on the CBC earlier this week:
that if 1/10th of the money spent by governments on arms were used for other puposes, there would be no poverty or hunger anywhere. And a natural extension would be that the need for the arms that the other 90% still bought would be greatly reduced.
Well, it’s a long weekend. Unfortunately, rain is forecast.
Time for Spring Cleaning and the Great Dust Bunny Hunt! Yes, armed with my unregistered Swiffer, a pail of phosphate free cleaning solution, and the ancillary tools, a hunting we shall go!
Then to the patio with the pressure washer to scourge the grime and yuck away.
Have a great weekend, stop and smell the fresh air, feel the sunshine (where available), and the flowers. You will feel better.
Garth, hop on your Crotch Rocket and get some ride time in this weekend if weather permits.
Of course he knew. Do you have an actual point? — Garth
By Janice on 05.16.08 10:13 am,
Janice’s point is you should not be permitted to use a neutral witness to counter their spin!!!!
Unfortunately, any Liberal that opposes the current Conservative military policies has been hamstrung by the Liberal Party’s support for the Afganistan mission, whatever it is. I would not want to be a Liberal today for several reasons and this is one of them.
From Rhino
We need change. We need to get rid of people who lower Canada’s public image by washing dirty laundry in public, and smearing others with half truths or creative editing of commentary.
So do you assert this will be changed by bringing in the Liberal smearers??
The whole political culture particularly the two main parties are saturated with a smear mentality. I don’t see any difference between the two parties. Both are pathetic!!
The only thing that is of consequence in all this smearing is if any public funds are being spent on these efforts, and if so, how much, by whom and where?
Other than that, it’s becoming as boring as listening to the boy cry wolf.
On the issue of military spending, there have been some good thoughts expressed recently, and one is the consideration of need. What do we need, and what don’t we need? Most boys in my generation loved to have a toy box full of toy soldiers, jeeps and tanks and misc. odd looking things that we weren’t quite sure the purpose of, but when it was all laid out in formation, it was an impressive sight.
For 33 million people who are currently facing a possible manufacturing crises, and contemplating radical new tax schemes to address environmental issues, isn’t it an appropriate question to ask just how many areas can we logically concentrate our resources without sharply increased taxation? Which is self defeating and in turn takes money out of the hands of ordinary Canadians who might have used it to invest in things like employment/income creation opportunities or energy saving measures.
Personally, I would prefer tax breaks/credits for construction of wind farms rather than direct expenditures for tanks that aren’t functional for the purpose they were supposedly purchased for.
I would prefer to see a public oriented program dedicated specifically to development and usage of solar energy, than the appropriation of considerable funds to move some old submarines back and forth from coast to coast for upgrades and maintenance.
“The federal government has picked Canadian Submarine Management Group to repair the four vessels at Victoria Shipyards in B.C. under a long-term contract worth an estimated $1.5 billion.
Keith said awarding the contract out west raises questions about maintaining submarine service when the vessels that are supposed to be on the east coast are in transit to the other side of Canada for repair.”
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2007/01/12/sub-irving.html
And that’s only the cost of maintenance and upgrades.
I would prefer to see government representatives spending their time and our money on attempts to streamline bureaucracy in an effort to aid the general public in its efforts to do business and generate income.
I would also prefer if our political leaders paid less attention to El Duce style resurrection of past military glory. Canada has always relied on Militia in times of need. I am not aware of any good reason to divert from that at this time.
There is no longer a Red Menace, only bogeymen created by American/_____ (fill in the blank), Military Industrial Complex and US Foreign policy. Supported in this country by sentiments of Military worship, pandering and politicians who do what is politically expedient.
This link illustrates a major problem. How many other private think tanks are being funding by taxpayers to promote a specific government agenda. This is exactly what the Conservatives accused the Liberals of doing on other issues.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080516.wmilitary16/BNStory/National/home
Well this sounds familiar. Hmm. Tax fainess plan by Flaherty. “I will not tax income trusts.” to Dion’s “I will not impose a carbon tax.”
And you wonder why Garth people are so fed up with the liars and cheats in Ottawa.
Lorne Gunter
The Edmonton Journal
Friday, May 16, 2008
For at least two years now, Liberal Leader Stephane Dion has been clear — emphatic even — there will be no carbon tax if his party wins the next federal election with him at the helm.
Of course, he was being disingenuous about that sometimes. For instance, last spring he suggested that instead of a carbon tax, the country’s 700 largest carbon emitters might be charged a carbon fee.
On a practical level, there would be no difference. A gouging, punitive, regressive tax by any other name would still be a gouging, punitive, regressive tax.
Still, on a dozen or more occasions, Dion has pledged never to introduce a carbon tax.
In June 2006, during the first Liberal leadership debate, Dion scoffed when Michael Ignatieff said a carbon tax “would do more to address climate change and help us be good stewards of our environment than any other measure.” Then, as now, Dion was a passionate defender of the Kyoto accord and even he rejected the notion that a carbon tax could help reduce emissions to the levels mandated by the UN’s global-warming accord.
Weeks later, when he released his campaign platform it referred to a tax on the production or consumption of fossil fuels as “simply bad policy.”
Also, Dion told the National Post’s editorial board in November 2006 (just weeks before he was selected as Liberal leader), if he ever became prime minister he would not even consider a carbon tax, because “for Albertans it’s a non-starter.”
He claimed in the Globe and Mail to have “always been against” a carbon tax. He had “other ways” to achieve emission reductions — mostly investment in new energy-saving technologies and tax incentives for individuals and businesses that reduced their carbon footprints.
Dion did say he wanted to establish a link between Canadians’ pocketbooks and the environment — between “your wallet and the planet,” in his words — but not by taking money out of those wallets, but rather by fattening them up with government cash.
Within weeks of becoming Liberal boss, Dion rushed to Alberta to assure the Journal’s editorial board, among others, that there would never be a carbon tax if he had his way.
I wrote at the time that I didn’t believe him. His plan, regardless of what he was going to call its components, would hit Alberta disproportionately hard and as such amounted to a carbon tax. Dion wrote our editors insisting “the plan I will reveal soon to decrease Canada’s industrial greenhouse gases will not include a carbon tax. I have said that I will be the best partner for Alberta and I mean it.”
Even this past winter, speaking to an Alberta audience, Dion assured the crowd he had two “bottom lines”: “there will be no carbon tax” and the profits earned by Albertans in the current energy boom “will stay in Alberta.”
So, of course, what has Dion proposed this week? A carbon tax.
Sure, the Liberal leader says his I-will-never-impose-a-carbon-tax tax will be revenue neutral, meaning for every dollar raised by his tax another tax will be lowered by the same amount. But I think he’s shot his credibility on the carbon-tax front. So excuse me, at the risk of provoking him to write another “best partner for Alberta” letter to my editors, I don’t believe him.
Promising that a new tax will be revenue-neutral has about the same credibility to begin with as a realtor’s pledge that your new home is just 15 minutes from downtown or a carmaker’s promise that your new SUV will get 20 kilometres a litre in the city and 30 km on the highway. But coming from Dion, the vigorous opponent of carbon taxes, the pledge of revenue neutrality is even less believable than usual.
Also, Brian Mulroney pledged that the GST would be revenue-neutral, and we all know how that song and dance ended.
The British Columbia government made a carbon tax the focal point of its spring budget and promised it would raise no new revenues. But the Canadian Taxpayers Federation estimates that once all the rebates for low-income residents are paid out and administrative costs are factored in, middle- and
upper-income taxpayers could pay $1 billion more in taxes each year than they do now.
And even if Dion’s carbon levy is revenue neutral, will it be regionally neutral? Will it be imposed on consumers –and thus felt all across the country — or will it be imposed mostly on producers and thus be mostly born by Alberta, B.C. and Saskatchewan, and possibly Newfoundland and Labrador?
If Dion follows the long tradition among Liberal leaders in their treatment of Alberta, we know the answer. Electoral reality will take precedence over regional equity. He will see few votes to be won here and many to be gained elsewhere by championing a tax that hurts Alberta and the other producers and — blink — the tax he would never impose, in part because he said he didn’t want to hurt Alberta, will be dumped on our backs.
© The Edmonton Journal 2008
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/sports/story.html?id=86c8138a-e544-482f-ac78-b7baa47b4660&p=1
This is a little rich even for this blog. For you to cry outrage complaining you were taken out of context after all the crap you have posted on this blog about Mr. Flaherty and the PM just shows what a sniffling little crybaby you really are. If you can’t stand the heat then perhaps it is time for this blog to be put to bed. What goes around comes around and I for one am really sick and tired of your constant whining and reading your lap dog posters. Lets have an election and get your sorry ass out of parliament. One question===Do you have any friends in any party that actually associate with you?
By Brian Wilson on 05.16.08 8:47 am
Gree Brian – I don’t recall Garth or anyone asking you to read this blog.
By Janice on 05.16.08 10:13 am
I find this a bit ingenuious from a supporter of a party who has done nothing since the election in 2006 but smear the Liberals and anyone else who gets in their way….you really are something else….joke comes to mind…
Hi Garth.
See “Lies of Aggression” linked below.
By former Ronald Reagan economist and asst. editor, Wall St.Journal.
Is the Canadian government complicit in this aggression?
Opposition parties here could support the troops by admitting that the
attack on Afghanistan had nothing to do with an attack on America.
Your Liberal Party could get more support from the electorate if you were
willing to represent Canadians, Americans and humanity as a whole
by demanding a return to PEACE KEEPING.
We don’t need those $150000-a-shot weapons for a war based on lies.
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05162008.html
Lets get on with the real issues concerning this country. Funny how the media can spin things out of control when there is a slow news day. Too all you Neo-Conservatives out there, find someone else to throw darts at. Keep up the good work Garth! Keep on caring, listening and acting for your constituents, as politicians should.
Coilliard last week, the young reporter and the reverend Benham this week. Doesn’t matter to you and your liberals what carnage is left in the wake. – JANICE
I think it matters to the Liberals in general because, although I am a Conservative supporter, the Liberals do have some ethics.
Garth, on the other hand, is a different story. All that matters to Garth is re-election and self-interest.
It was Garth Turner who smeared the military with his silly sassed comment, Not Harper nor any Conservative. Get it Garth Turner is the one who did the smearing and now it has bite him in the ass and he doesn’t like it. Well Garth should know that he reaps what he sews.
By Van on 05.16.08 9:28 am
That’s a really stupid comment especially coming from you Van, you know the comments were made in comparing relative spending priorities and had virtually little to do with the mission, I am really surprised you would say something like this, I always thought you were reasonably fair although slanted to the CPC view…you have proved me wrong again.
It seems Mr.Bush got a little bad press yesterday.Actally “little” maybe the wrong word.
First we have Keith Olbermann “No holds barred on this one”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/olbermann-to-bush-this-wa_n_101831.html
And this from Larisa Alexandrovna:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/all-the-presidents-nazis_b_102022.html
By Mound of Sound on 05.16.08 12:01 am
Exactly and well said.
Ask every member of parliament and the senate to watch this and then vote on spending more scarce funds on the “War on
Terror”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8nrRZOpXw
One of the significant advantages of having a domestic carbon tax is that we can then apply it to imports coming in from offending countries.
This would have the effect of penalizing offending countries for not addressing their own greenhouse gas emissions, and it would help support Canadian manufacturers who are shifting to greener technologies.
I would prefer to see a public oriented program dedicated specifically to development and usage of solar energy, than the appropriation of considerable funds to move some old submarines back and forth from coast to coast for upgrades and maintenance.
By Greg on 05.16.08 10:28 am
Did you happen to see on the National, I believe, about the man from Newfoundland who makes solar panels out of recycled pop cans. He drills holes in the bottom (& top ?) and puts them together in rows and paints them in black. They are then put in a form and covers them with black plexi glass, IIRCC. Sells them for $2,500. for each panel and says, even in his climate, the payback is 4 or 5 years. He’s been selling them across the country.
Both innovative and good for the environment.
Re the govt. moving the subs to the west coast for maintenance. Its all about votes. Remember the coast guard vessels move to Nfld.
Canada needs to return to its roots as a leading peacekeeper in the world. We DO NOT NEED billions of dollars of military hardware and significant increases in military spending. All that this will accomplish is drive up our overall cost of government, drain resources that could have been used to improve the lot of millions of poor and disadvantaged Canadians, and goose up the profits of US based military suppliers. This is nothing more than Harper sending billions of tax dollars south to thank his neo-Con friends.
Hi brain on 05.16.08 12:54 am,
‘I just can’t do that with you. You’re like the energizer bunny with the environment, you just don’t stop… and its so needed!’
Brian, since you’ve heard what I have to say about Global climate change and peak-oil, just skip my stuff.
For others new to the blog they may still NEED to KNOW.
I keep saying it because as I’ve seen though my live, that good science and information seems to not register with the people that are the so-called planers in this world.
If we don’t do major things and with great urgency to stop Global climate change NOW and get ready for Peak-oil.
Everything else will be a mutt point.
The good science based information has not lead to the needed action on a large scale, to prevent the BURUTALITY that will surly come, If we keep on this same path of burning fossil fuels for our energy needs. The longer we wait the more costly it will be and we may totally miss Getting It Done In Time!
The climate will change; the longer we wait the greater the change will be. There will be more ‘killer’ heat waves, ‘drought’ leading to crop failure and ’starvation’ on a global scale. Storms with get stronger, when and IF it does rain.
Your family will be in the cross hairs the same as everyone else.
The sea level will raise. A large part of the human population now live near sea level, on the cost! Were will they all go?
Peak-oil, it’ll be here very soon!
With the PMSH ‘plan’ and there close connection to the oil Corporation.
Canada will be all out of natural gas in ~2028. (How do you heat your home?)
The world will be all out of oil in ~2050-2060.
(The world burned 1 cubic mile of oil last year for the first time. This year we’ll use more. There is only so much oil. They are only guessing that there is oil and gas in the artic!
If there is some, how much longer do you think it will last? Not much!
What kind of world do you want to live in and have your family grow up in?
Are you well informed?
Are you a critical-thinker?
Do you have any family?
Do you care about other human beings?
Many individuals are doing what there are able to, with what they have. They are still many that don’t even know, or know they should care, because it will surly affect them/YOU too!
Our so-called leaders need to take action in everyone’s best interests.
Not just there own self-interest and that of their corporate acquaintances.
No one is coming to safe us from ourselves. We all need to use are big brains and work together, or we will all be screwed!
It seems to me that there are still many people in this western world that just don’t know or care.
(some more are finding out, but.)
They have been conditioned to think that more stuff will make them happy. They don’t even know they should start to pay attention.
Remember; “Belief in myth avoids the discomfort of thought.”
Have you ever read?
‘Plato’s Allegory Of The Cave’
Ower past and present collective actions are leading to disaster on an apocalyptic scale! There is still a bit of time left, but not much!
It is your job in a free democracy to get informed and take action! Do what you can and tell the so-called leaders what you want done, or kick the lying bums out!!!
You could run for office!!! Or help someone that you know and think will
‘Get the Job Done” in time, we are quickly running out of time!
Go to public meeting and ask what they are going to do to really get the job done in time!
PMSH doesn’t even seem to care about his own kid’s future.
Do you really think he cares about your family future?
PMSH and gang is NOT getting the job done at all, they are going backwards!!!
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/sports/story.html?id=86c8138a-e544-482f-ac78-b7baa47b4660&p=1
The knives are out and guess where? Good old Alberta. Time for pushback! WTH are they scared of anyway, breathing clean air and pulling in a fish that isn’t deformed?
By Men With Hats on 05.16.08 12:10 am
It is necessary to combat the con-bot operatives that are out to get you at any cost.
You are target number one . Make no mistake.
………………………………..
You can’t accuse me of targeting Garth for anything … perhaps Dion with one of those finned thingies which would be doing the Liberal party a big big favour considering the mess Dion has made of his leadershit and dragged down the Liberal party to non-government status.
Btw, Garth … where can I get one of those finned thingies ??!!! … LOL
Yup it is always someone eleses fault. Garth you got caught saying something dumb all on your own.
It’s not Harper fault the repoters fault(which you thought was a guy lol) or Janke’s fault.
What you said was stupid just admit it. It is sad watching try to spin this. But hey at least you have your blog.
Better to have one truthful friend than a party of conservatives.
Speaking at a community gathering of faith leaders is ‘theatrics’? Are you guys this afraid of me? — Garth
Garth … in your weblog articles you stated that: ” I held a session for 24 local faith leaders” … and … “I held a Roundtable on Moral Issues in Halton with twenty-four faith leaders” … and yet you fail to provide a list of those 24 faith leaders and their religious denominations.
Why … what are you afraid of ….???
By Janice on 05.16.08 10:13 am
Uhhh…
Reverend John Benham, of Milton, was there. He filed this with the local paper today, and sent me a copy
Presumably by sending the letter to the local paper the Reverend was hoping/expecting it to be published.
Given that the Reverend submitted this letter to the media, how exactly is Garth exploiting him?
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.
Taking people out of context and blowing it up into silliness is what you do in order to get elected and sell your books, Garth. Watching you dance around and gabble about how “They are picking on me!” is rich.
I agree it is a bad bit of reporting. And they are unfairly picking on you. It is things like this that get reporters/newspapers/politicians the bad rap on trust you were talking about a while ago.
Quit defending yourself. Thicken your skin. Your constituents know who you are. After all, they were at the meeting, right?
Good luck, and enjoy it. Book sales will undoubtedly go up.
Of course he knew. Do you have an actual point? — Garth
The point is that only the good Reverend John Benham of Milton came out to save yer sorry arse, while the other “23 faith leaders” are letting you twist in the wind.
Is that why you are avoiding to name them?? Come clean, Garth and fess up ..!!!
If I gave you 15 testimonials, you’d say the same. Pathetic. — Garth
To quote:
” but the proposed measures could increase Ottawa’s tax take by an estimated $12 billion a year, according to economists.
But the Liberals are promising to transfer every penny raised by higher energy taxes back to individual and corporate taxpayers in the form of income tax reductions, ..”
Is this guy for real? If you believe this then Jim Flaherty has a tax plan for you.
First Dion promises no carbon tax and then he wants to create one. Then he says it’s revenue neutral … but to whom? Certainly not to Canadian taxpayers. In my view, Dion has gone the Jim Flaherty school of “tax fairness” and to the Stephan Harper school of “how to tell a lie but make it sound like the truth.”
He’s lost my vote.
————-
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion is seen after a speech in Toronto May 15, 2008, in which he talked about the party’s plan to combat greenhouse gas emissions.
Increased energy charges will be balanced by tax breaks, Liberal says
May 16, 2008
Les Whittington
Ottawa Bureau
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion began rolling out his politically risky carbon tax plan yesterday with a carrot-and-stick theme that he hopes will blunt Canadians’ objections to higher fuel costs.
At the heart of the wide-ranging environmental package are hard-to-sell tax increases that will drive up the cost of heating a home with natural gas, oil or electricity from coal-fired plants. The Liberals say their plan would not raise gasoline prices, which are already subject to a federal excise tax.
Details of the plan will not be out for several weeks, but the proposed measures could increase Ottawa’s tax take by an estimated $12 billion a year, according to economists.
But the Liberals are promising to transfer every penny raised by higher energy taxes back to individual and corporate taxpayers in the form of income tax reductions, incentives for conservation and support for low-income earners.
It’s a plan “that’s good for your wallet and good for the planet,” Dion told a lunchtime business audience in Toronto.
“We must create competitive advantages by lowering taxes on things we want more of – income, (business) innovation, savings and investment.
“And we must shift those taxes towards the things we want less of – pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, smog and waste,” he explained. “And, in doing so, we will be able to help the middle class and lift many Canadians out of poverty so they can offer all of their talents and skills to the nation.”
Liberals MPs say one of their chief concerns is the bruising impact that higher energy taxes would have on the pocketbooks of middle-class and low-income Canadians already grappling with skyrocketing gas prices.
To soften the blow, Dion’s plan envisages the creation of a more progressive tax system, with reduced income taxes to balance increased energy charges for those at the low end of the income scale and more support for those whose income is too small to be taxable.
That can be done through the greater use of refundable tax credits, which result in a payout to taxpayers whose incomes fall below a certain threshold, Liberals say.
If the government could make more tax credits refundable, that would be “a reform of the tax regime that would help a lot of people who don’t have enough money to pay taxes” but are watching their energy costs shoot up, Dion told reporters after his speech.
Liberals also say the program is likely to include tax incentives for businesses to become more energy-efficient and develop new technologies to reduce pollution and promote conservation.
One of the measures is a “green mortgage.”
Under it, a homeowner could qualify for a lower borrowing rate on a portion of his or her mortgage – say $30,000 out of a $250,000 mortgage – if the homeowner uses those funds for energy-saving renovations.
Hmmm…..are these CPC trolls calling the Reverand a liar? Legal suit perhaps?
“Crucifying Consumers”…that’s the term used in the British Press. At the same time we see Reuters: Bank restates no upper limit on mortgage swap plan
Now stop a minute and think about this…the same is occurring in the USA on a grander scale and with the passage of the Canadian Budget our Bank of Canada will have the latitude to follow the same route.
Banks are exchanging their ” hard-to-shift mortgage-backed assets for highly-tradable government debt”. Good huh? The taxpayer ends up owning mortgages that nobody else wants.
It appears to me that the Financial Institutions then take their more liquid assets and throw them at oil and commodity ventures, thus driving your prices ever higher in a frenzy generated by unlimited paper money.
Simply marvellous. Garth asks “Should we all be afraid yet?”. No, we shouldn’t be afraid…we should be mad as hell at the greatest wealth grab in the history of mankind! Are we? Nooooo….everyone say Bbbbbbaaaaaaaaaa now and line up for even more shearing.
On and On it Goes
Nunavut’s Liberal MP, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, says Conservative advertising flyers like this one are scaring her Nunavut constituents with misleading messages.
——————————————————————————–
Underneath, there are two pictures laid out side-by-side: a shot of Conservative leader Stephen Harper striking a statesman-like pose set against an unflattering shot of a hapless-looking Stéphane Dion.
Inside, the flyer says “Dion voted against the $1,200 child care benefit and will take it away” and “With Conservatives you will keep your $1,200 per year child care benefit. Guaranteed.”
Karetak-Lindell said many constituents thinks this means they would lose their highly valued child tax credit should the Liberals form the next government.
The child tax credit, introduced in 1997 as a replacement for the old family allowance system, provides a monthly cheque to lower and middle income families with children.
The flyer actually refers to a different scheme: the child care benefit. That plan, introduced by Stephen
Harper’s Conservative government in 2006, gives families $1200 a year per child. It’s aimed at helping families pay for day care.
But Karetak-Lindell says many of her Nunavut constituents, who don’t have English as a first language and who are not familiar with the tax system, think it means they’ll lose their child benefit cheques.
“They have a right to send out flyers containing any message. But it’s misleading. That’s what really bothers me,” she said.
And she said that as the governing party, the Conservatives should be more responsible when distributing information about government programs.
The flyers are distributed at taxpayers’ expense, through a House of Commons program available to all members. Under it, any MP may send flyers to no more than 10 per cent of all households in any given constituency.
MPs are allowed to send these flyers, called “10-per-centers,” to any constituency in Canada.
The English-only anti-Dion material sent to Nunavut bears the address of Brian Jean, the Conservative member for Fort McMurray.
Last month, Liberal MP Garth Turner accused the Harper government of misusing House of Commons postal privileges and using taxpayers money to distribute highly partisan messages.
Turner alleged that Conservative MPs printed and distributed between 30 and 50 million such flyers over a 90-day period.
Sins of the Father Not of the Son
To understand the Omar Khadr case one could state he has no rights because he is a terrorist. He, the 15 year old boy killed an U.S. Army Medic with the most brutal of force, a grenade. End of story.
The boy, now a young man lives in Guantanamo Bay, in legal limbo outside of the requirements of US military or US criminal law waiting for justice. In Canada, we do not presume guilt; we presume innocence and justice.
Or do we?
His father is linked to Al Qaeda and was likely a willing soldier of Bin Laden and the terrorism doctrine. Omar Khadr’s biggest problem is his father was killed before the incident in question.
So if the father is dead why not punish the son?
Simply put he was a child soldier.
This is such a fundamental issue that I cannot understand the government’s position. No one is saying that Omar is not a prime suspect in the death of the American Medic. We do know Omar was shot twice during the fire fight. But I remind everyone he was fifteen when he was captured. He was a child and deserves the fundamental understanding of victimization.
Omar cannot be held be responsible for the sin’s of his father and the exploitation of his life at such a young age. It was the father who took Omar to Pakistan and then Afghanistan. It was the father who made the life choices for his son.
If we turn our back on Omar, we abandon all exploited children in our own country and the rest of the world. Bring Omar Khadr home and expedite his case in the Courts of Canada.
Do not allow Omar to pay for the sins of his father.
Btw, Garth … where can I get one of those finned thingies ??!!! … LOL
By Harry S on 05.16.08 11:35 am
Good to see you laughing now Harry, enjoy your 15 minutes of fame…
The point is that only the good Reverend John Benham of Milton came out to save yer sorry arse, while the other “23 faith leaders” are letting you twist in the wind.
By Harry S on 05.16.08 11:57 am
The point is one pathetic Troll, took a small part of ONE reporters recollection of events, twisted it only as this particular Troll can, blew the whole thing out of proportion and then PMSH, after doing zero independant research on the matter, made the comments he did.
So who to believe; PMSH whose comments are akin to saying you are could my 3rd cousin 6 times removed, that is based on information so distant from the source its unrecognisable, or the Rev. who was actually there?
BTW. 3rd cousin 6 times removed, probably would apply to almost everyone!
Harry isn’t one of them!
“the Cadman affair will have resurfaced” – TS
Another phantom scandal bites the dust:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080516/Cadman_affair_080516/20080516?hub=TopStories
Btw, Garth … where can I get one of those finned thingies ??!!! … LOL
By Harry S on 05.16.08 11:35 am
Hey Harry follow the link and ’say hello to my little friend’
http://www.scaar.at/airsoft/vulcan.htm
Nasty, brutish, dishonest, ignorant and adolescent. I want these Cons turfed out and not be allowed close to power for at least a generation.
Incoming indeed. Your blog is full of Cadman inuendo. Now that the mounties have cleared the cons I guess you will be posting an apology? No? I didn’t think so.
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/page/5/?s=cadman&submit=GO
“Knowing Mr. Harper as I do, I find this completely believable.”
By Herb on 05.16.08 7:13 am
You nailed it, Herb. The Liberals have been far too reactionary to Conservative smears, slurs and rhetoric. The Libs not only need to take the high road with the war of words, they need to make their stand clear on policy.
And to the rest:
Aside from this, some of the bloggers here are a little harsh on this MP who has brought us digital democracy like no other. And like no other, its made him a target because he’s more visible than most. A good strong number of journalists follow this blog. A good number of political junkies, professors, and people from all backgrounds straight across the board follow this blog and for good reason. The number of entries per day tells all.
People forget the reason why this site exists. And they forget that Garth, like all other humans, is flawed. And there will be weaknesses in his character just as there are weaknesses within us all. Who here on this planet is perfect? Garth knows he’s not. He lives with his imperfections as we all do, every single day.
The Cons are predatorial. They’ll attack Garth not just because thats all they know, but because Garth represents two of the biggest things that the Cons are against….
Democracy and Transparency.
They fear you Garth. They’ve looked at the polls in Ontario and your name keeps coming up. Harper and his bots are going to gun for you increasingly until they are no more because you are that hated by them as all cults will hate any members that defect. And they are pushing the one button you didn’t expect and you are reacting to it more than you’d like to admit. They are messing with your emotions… your heart and contrary to the stupid opinions of others that post, you’ve got one. A big one. So make it work for you.
Its like this war… they are bullying you into a corner, attacking you with a specifically designed smear that has you declaring in unpopular fashion what you “believe”, forcing you to make “declarations” of “faith” in the cause of war.
If I was you, but I’m not you, but if I was you, I’d clarify what you do “believe” and what you “know” which are, as I interpret it, two different things, as night and day as “thinking” and “knowing”. But thats just me… and it ties into my next point.
Never forget to be your own man, Garth. This experience should reinforce what you already know (but I’m going to remind you of this anyways) And as you have said many times, its the man Halton elected you to be. You know, real. Not a pretender, not some fake who says this that and the other for votes, but just your simple self and when this ragtag sorry assed bunch of misfit losers with their stinker policies of serving themselves and their U.S. multinationals over their own electorate runs its course, they’ll remember you for being that man, tested by fire and still standing.
You once said that all politicians can hope for in this world is keeping their word. We’ll also know them by their works and when one looks at what you’ve accomplished and as a writer, as a senior editor, as a good and decent man, and as a man who defines good policy, putting it on the radar for the benefit of all, for the health of the whole, there are no words given that can smear or shame you. Remember it.
And to the rest.
Do you all have any kind of clue as to what it is like to post a short story, essay or piece of literature day, after day, after day, after month, after year and be 100% accurate with absolutely everything?
Its clear that a good number of us do not, that some of us have absolutely no clue as to what it takes to create excellent literature. Garth has no chance for rewrites, here, no chance to sleep on it, no chance to take back something he’s written perhaps minutes before his own postings. Some of us here are so hypocritical with their comments, so blatantly ignorant with their knowledge, so rabid with their bias partisanship, the only good they will ever produce is an example of what not to be.
Wake up!!!! Garth is more than a mere elected official, more than a fair tax crusader, more than someone who has sat as senior editor of a major business news syndicate. Still sticking to the theme of what he is, he’s a writer, pure born. Most of us will never have this gift. If but a one of you tried to pull off what this man writes daily and sends out publicly for scrutiny or otherwise, you would realize just how valuable and needed this gift truly is, especially with transparency and practicing democracy. And thats just it.
Most of the dummies who post on this site simply have the inability, or never bothered to learn (always remaining ignorant) how to put themselves in another persons shoes. Smears? Some of us can’t recognize the truth or reality when we hear it or see it, thats just how it is.
Herb is right. All opposition parties should not react to such Tards. Liberals, define your own battle grounds as Dion is doing right now as we speak. Rise above it and victory by late fall is for the taking.
As always, Garth, wishing you the usual health and happiness and the rest of you a great day!
By Eric Foreman on 05.16.08 12:52 pm
Its the PMO’s word against Cadman’s wife and daughter’s word.
However, the scandal maybe over, but the phantom, of public opinion, may still come back to haunt the PM!
Presumably by sending the letter to the local paper the Reverend was hoping/expecting it to be published.
Given that the Reverend submitted this letter to the media, how exactly is Garth exploiting him?
By Ed Brooks on 05.16.08 11:51 am
When one writes a letter to the editor of a small town do you suppose they think that their name and political association will become international information? Perhaps some wish for that. But also some may think its only confined to the town paper.
The point being, whether its Julie Couillard or the reverend, Garth will take people and use them for his own political gain at their expense.
Garth says the reverend was game for that. I find it hard to believe the reverend knew or knows now of the extent that this could take. But I do know Julie wasn’t up for it. That didn’t matter to Garth. It doesn’t bother him or his colleagues to drag a Canadian that has not been charged or convicted of ANY crime through his political quagmire.
I just have an issue with elected officials treating Canadians that way.
By Janice on 05.16.08 10:13 am
I find this a bit ingenuious from a supporter of a party who has done nothing since the election in 2006 but smear the Liberals and anyone else who gets in their way….you really are something else….joke comes to mind…
By wjp on 05.16.08 10:50 am
And what party would that be that I support?
To hold Garth Turner to account for his arrogant abuse of innocent Canadians makes me a member of what party?
“The manipulation of the Endangered Species Act was highlighted by Kassie Siegel, the lawyer who wrote the legal petition for the Center for Biological Diversity. Ms. Siegel made no attempt to disguise her group’s intent when she said that the effort to list the polar bears was to ‘try to make the point that global warming is not some future threat’. This statement confirms that these fringe environmentalists are simply using the polar bears to advance their extreme agenda.”
Read it all here.
http://community.adn.com/adn/node/123321
Turner alleged that Conservative MPs printed and distributed between 30 and 50 million such flyers over a 90-day period.
By DoryD on 05.16.08 12:28 pm
I have received at least 10 so far. 3 in one week was the record as yet. I have complained to the M.P.s .parl email address but have only received 1 reply. Guess they only want a mailed in sheet as correspondence. I have never in my life received so much mail from a government until this current one. Quite pathetic in my opinion.
Hi Garth,
Maybe you should just quit spinning and apologize already, if you need something to spin, you can always help Dion with the carbon tax.
Gord.
By kpn on 05.16.08 11:14 am
No I didn’t see that, but it is the type of thing that will continue to come forward as a market opens up and should be assisted by applicable government agencies.
And late on Thursday, the PMO and the prime minister became involved. The Conservative party web site carried my picture, referred to the pile-on noted above and said, “In a time when Canadians should be rallying behind our men and women in uniform, it is ignorant and outrageous for an opportunistic Opposition MP to instead accuse them of targeting and killing civilians.”
So, Garth, there is only one thing you can and must do: SUE THE PRIME MINISTER. After all, if he can sue the Liberals for an alleged slur on the Lib website, can you not do the same when they lie about you on their site? ABSOLUTELY. Except, I know you are not as small and petty as the cons.
We know the truth and the Cons are revealing themselves for what they are more and more as each day passes.
SMEAR ‘N’ GO
Silly contemptuous CONS with their incessant pejorative comments and writings.
I hear that their website can now spit out smears for any occasion. Simply enter your name and postal code, and your area of smear interest, and it will regurgitate the “smear du jour.”
I understand, too, that all CON MPs have recently been provided a special jar of cream called “SMEAR ‘N’ GO” in response to Poo Poo Pierre Poilievre’s recent antics in the House Of Commons.
It seems that CON MPs are getting sexually aroused each time they hear PP chant “In…Out, In…Out, In…Out”
CON members have been advised to apply this cream LIBERALLY (irony added) on their private parts before entering the House, so as to reduce the chances of extreme embarrassment. Similar to their verbal and written attacks, they can just “SMEAR ‘N’ GO”.
However, as with all their juvenile-minded policies and antics, it seems that the effectiveness of this proprietary cream is in doubt.
Apparently, some male CON members have been caught staring lovingly at Pierre during his speeches.
Even Tom Lukiwski has been seen with a certain twinkle in his eye as he gazes fondly at PP repeating his lines.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Who is paying for this google ad on the Huffington Post website—the neocons or the Canadian taxpayer?
http://www.your-votes.com/StephenHarper/
“Do you think Stephen Harper is doing a good job as Prime Minister of Canada?”
I have received 9 of those damn 10%ers from the most crooked, manipulative and dishonest political party in the history of Canada in my opinion—the neocons led by Stevie Harpo, the dictator. I live in a Liberal riding with a solid candidate whom I did not vote for in the past and will in the next election no matter what Stephane Dion decides because anything is better than the crap we have now to represent Canada.
The Saudis — aren’t they dubya’s friends? — have rejected requests to boost oil output, so as to lower the cost of fuel here.
Seems as if we’re over a barrel of their oil.
http://tinyurl.com/4wxgum
From what I understand (correct me if I’m off the mark), prices of worldwide commodities have remained relatively stable over the years; it is the US greenback’s continued decline in value which has been the major cause of rises in food, oil and other necessities of life.
With carney, dimhar and wealthy biz. execs. following the same path as dubya’s gang of dipshits, it stands to reason that “Ordinary People” eventually won’t have a leg to stand on.
****************************************
. . . everyone say Bbbbbbaaaaaaaaaa now and line up for even more shearing.
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 05.16.08 12:23 pm
Hi Pecked.
For the record, I will never conform to whatever ’society’ says I should or shouldn’t do, being a sheeple or a zombie — Harry S does those jobs exremely well, and that is his calling!
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”but the proposed measures could increase Ottawa’s tax take by an estimated $12 billion a year, according to economists.
But the Liberals are promising to transfer every penny raised by higher energy taxes back to individual and corporate taxpayers in the form of income tax reductions, ..”
By Randy Meyer on 05.16.08 12:06 pm
Hi Randy.
Why did CRAP not leave the GST alone, even raised it which would have given Ottawa a guaranteed cash flow income of at least $12 bln./year, THEN lowered income tax rates to offset the GST increases, so folk would have more disposable income in their paycheques?
In the UK, I understand that VAT — Value Added Tax — is around 20% on most items — people are used to paying it, so it’s a fact of life.
Enough Cdns., including ourselves who are retired, would gladly have lived with a higher GST rate, offset by lower income tax percentages in order to have better lives.
Joke just arrived . . .
****************************************
Income Tax Refund advice
If you are lucky and Revenue Canada sends you a refund from your 2008 Income Tax, be careful how you spend it . . .
If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China;
If you spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs;
If you purchase a new computer it will go to India;
If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala;
If you purchase a good car it will go to Japan;
If you purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan and none of it will help the Canadian economy.
We need to keep that money here in Canada.
The only way to keep that money here at home is to spend it at garage sales, since those are the only businesses
still operating successfully in Canada.
OFF TOPIC and IMPORTANT
As a mother who has had two children with cancer made well through alternative medicine and supplements, not allopathic medicine, I urge everyone so-inclinedto let their MP know we need free access to our supplements. My brother with prostate cancer has slowed its progression with the use of supplements and diet. Doctors and pharmaceuticals are the third leading cause of death in the US.
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/24/healthcare_death.htm
John Hammell who writes the following newsletter has cured himself of schizophrenia through the work of a Canadian physician, Dr. Abram Hoffer. He uses nutrition and mega doses of specific vitamins and nutrients. I know of others who have been similarly cured including Margot Kidder of Superman fame. John has worked for years tirelessly to stop CODEX http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/
IAHF List: All hell is breaking loose on the Canadian Parliament as they feel the wrath of Natural Health Product consumers who have been UNLEASHED via the fiery rhetoric of John Hammell, Lorna Hancock, Croft Woodruff, Kurt Luzny, Tony Stephan, Trueman Tuck and many others who helped sound the clarion call from simultaneous anti Pharma (Anti C-51) demonstrations held across Canada last Saturday. On Monday I visited 13 health food stores in Richmond BC, and yesterday I visited a dozen more in Surrey.
Americans must take notice as Canada erupts against C-51, because the battle being raged by our neighbors to the north is also OUR battle, make NO mistake about it because if the Canucks fail to kill the worst anti dietary supplement bill in the world which is coming at them right now like a freight train on steroids, unleashed as its been by the Conservative Harper Neocon Government- this TRAIN WRECK won’t just END at the 49th Parallel, as sure as you’re born it will come barrelin’ over the line unless we STOP it!!
For several years now I’ve been the lone voice crying in the wilderness about the immense danger posed to Americans via FDA’s Trilateral Cooperation Charter with Canada & Mexico: and my petition calling for Congressional oversight on this “Codex Delivery Vehicle” now has 24,195 signatures http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/373269232
With your HELP we can get this number up to 24,497,000…… but its going to take a JOINT EFFORT!
I need your help to awaken everyone in America and Canada to the IMMENSE THREAT posed by C-51, a bill so draconian that by redefining the meaning of the word “sell”, under this bill it would include “to give away”. In other words, if C-51 is passed in Canada, and you grow some herbs in your garden, dry them in your house, package them in baggies to give to your friends, family, your HOUSE could now be RAIDED, and all your assetts SEIZED so you wouldn’t even be able to mount a legal defense.
Please watch the You Tubes of the Anti C-51 Rally in Toronto to fully appreciate just how bad this bill really is: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-oA-5xG3N1I&feature=related C-51 would enable Health Canada to generate REGULATIONS which would harmonize Canada to CODEX without ANY Parliamentary Oversight or Public Input of ANY KIND. Please also read this well written article about C-51 http://educate-yourself.org/cn/canadianC-51bill27apr08.shtml
This is FULL ON, IN YOUR FACE FASCISM, and if you feel SAFE from this situation because you’re an AMERICAN, you do well to think real hard about whats coming down on us via FDA’s Trilateral Cooperation Charter because it IS the vehicle that is ushering CODEX GENOCIDE into N.America, and C-51 is part of this equation, and THATS why I need your $$$$ for GAS in order to do more of what I’ve BEEN doing the past week:
I’ve been breaking my ass for you driving all over Metro Vancouver BC visiting ALL the Health Food stores, Naturopaths, Chiropractors, Organic food stores, green grocers, Fitness Centers, Sporting Goods Stores, Pharmacies that sell Supplements, Chain Grocery Stores that Sell Supplements. On monday I visited a dozen Stores in Richmond BC, and yesterday I visited a dozen more in Surrey. I am educating the shop owners and managers in order to light a FIRE under their butts so they’ll EAGERLY give our anti C-51 materials to their customers and encourage them to take action!
ITS WORKING, folks, I am scaring the hell out of people and getting them off their asses calling friends and family across Canada because I don’t want this GARBAGE crossing the line into America. Its draining sometimes trying to motivate Canadians because they’re ultra polite people and a high percentage work for the government so its a much harder country to do political organizing in than the USA, but I’m working very hard at it because so much is at stake.
PUTTING C-51 INTO GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE TO HELP KILL IT
I’m not just talking about all the dangerous provisions of C-51, my fellow speakers have been hitting those points quite solidly and they’re clearly delineated at http://www.stopc51.com What I’ve been helping the Canadian people with is to see how C-51 fits into a bigger picture so they’ll understand the EXTREME importance of working to kill it!
As the first person to ever sound the global alarm on Codex, my voice carries considerable weight with the vitamin consumers of the world, and I’m able to capitalize on my faim north of the line to get huge numbers of people to see the following noteworthy things:
1. C-51 represents an effort by Canada to harmonize to AUSTRALIA’s far more stringent dietary supplement laws. I urged Canadians to take note of the battle against harmonization to Australia thats been raging for years now in New Zealand-
(See New Zealand Health Trust website: http://www.nzhealthtrust.co.nz/index.html )Americans: you must ALSO become familiar with the New Zealand battle because if C-51 isn’t killed in Canada, we’re going to find ourselves in an IDENTICAL battle here.
2. There is a Codex Committee of N.America and the SW Pacific. Thats the vehicle via which Health Canada (and also the US FDA and the New Zealand government are in a dialogue with the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) in Australia.
I told the crowd in Vancouver that the reason I know about this Codex Committee is because they held a meeting in Vancouver in 1995 in which a Canadian motion was tabled to create a “Negative” or “No Trade” list for herbs for the purpose of banning the sale of a lot of safe and effective herbs from international commerce.
When I triggered off a massive rebellion against this in Canada in ‘96 prior to the Codex meeting in Bonn that year, we succeeded in making our presence felt at Codex and they had to work hard to try to get AWAY from us by shuffling the matter OUT of Codex and over to a Secret Committee at the World Health Organization to which we have no access. The thing is, we have them on the run and HERE is how we’re going to WIN:
HOW TO TURN THE TIDE on C-51 & CODEX: WE MUST EDUCATE POLITICIANS & THEIR STAFF RE THE IMMENSE VALUE OF NATURAL HEALTH PRODUCTS!!!
Yesterday I paid a visit to the office of my friend Jasminder Banger’s MP, a guy named Sukh Dhaliwal who is member of the Liberal Party representing a “Riding” (similar to a US Congressional District) in Surrey BC. Sukh wasn’t there, but his aide was, and his aide has ALLERGIES. He told me that certain spices in hot East Indian food really open up his sinuses. So I am going to clue him in to a bunch of strategies for addressing allergies using Natural Health Products (Dietary Supplements in the USA).
I am going to give this guy what helps me the best which is a product called Serra- Plex made by a Canadian company called New Roots Herbal http://www.newrootsherbal.com It has 90,000 Active Units of Serratiopeptedase, combined with other digestive enzymes and its the best thing I’ve ever used for severe allergies. I’ll also educate him about bee pollen, and vitamin C as other possible things to help. This guy was overweight, so I’m also going to tell him about raw foods for weight loss and about supplements that curb appetite and which absorb fats and carbs so they’re not absorbed.
I’ll be willing to bet any money that I am able to help this guy, and then he’ll lean on his boss harder than anyone to help kill or amend C-51 in order to protect our access.
If enough people across Canada emulate what I am doing, we will either kill C-51 or at the very least get it amended to protect Natural Health Products.
I told the assembled crowd in Vancouver of this idea at the rally where I spoke on Saturday, and they liked it! I told them that former US Congressman Berkley Bedell recovered from cancer and from Lymes disease using two different suppressed alternative treatments and I explained that Bedell helped his fellow Iowan, Senator Tom Harken recover from allergies using bee pollen. Harken controlled the purse strings of the National Institutes of Health (“NIH”) and he simply DECREED that they would create an office of Alternative Medicine in order to accelerate the acceptance of these suppressed modalities.
(I was on the Ad Hoc Advisory Board which created this office which today is the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, an entity which sadly and not surprisingly has been hijacked by Pharma since its being forced on Pharma Dominated NIH was about as popular as a Pirannah in a Hot Tub.
(Due to the Hijacking of OAM, now NCCAM, Berkley Bedell created the National Foundation for Alternative Medicine http://www.nfam.org/NFAM/ to do the work he’d envisioned OAM (now NCCAM) doing in our Nations Capital as a way of keeping Alternative Medicine more in the consciousness of politicians, an increasing number of which are benefitting from it and now accepting it the same way Berkley Bedell and Senator Harkin have.
YOUR URGENT HELP IS NEEDED TO KILL C-51 & CODEX IN CANADA TO STOP IT FROM COMING TO AMERICA– WHAT YOU CAN DO FROM EITHER COUNTRY:
1.Go here and educate yourself about the bill http://www.stopc51.com Watch the film from the Toronto Rally against the bill http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=-oA-5xG3N1I&feature=related BE MOTIVATED TO TAKE ACTION!
2. If you’re Canadian, please do the following things (Instructions to Americans Follow):
a) Make an appointment with your MP or his or her staff at their local office (unless you live near Ottawa in which case you must go directly to his or her National office.) Explain in your own words why you oppose C-51, and be sure to learn anything you can about the health of the MP and his staff so you can recommend specific products to help them with their medical ailment. Make use of this site for the purpose of figuring out nutritional protocols for different conditions: http://www.lef.org/protocols/ Purchase the products to help the staffer or MP, consider this an investment in your LIFE since C-51 threatens to actually KILL a lot of Canadians.
b) Call and email everyone you know across the country to urge them to follow suit, and also to flood MPs with phone calls, faxes, snail mail, and email about C-51.
c) Organize Rallies in your town or City against the bill, and write letters to the editor of newspapers especially if they run a story on the bill such as this one from CBC About C-51 http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/05/09/bill-c51.html
d) Donate to IAHF to assist us in our crusade to personally carry this message to people all over N.America on both sides of the border, to help us travel to more health food stores, green grocers, fitness centers, and other places in the Metro Vancouver area where NHP consumers gather. We’re even bringing our message to the chain grocery stores that have shelves full of NHPs, stores like Save On Foods, and Thrifty Foods. We’re bringing our message also to Shoppers Drug Mart because they now have a whole section devoted to NHPs. Its expensive buying gas. Its expensive to stay in motels. What I need is two things:
A) Donations for Gas
B) Offers to crash at your house in Vancouver or around BC, or donations for lodging
Please send your most generous donation to:
IAHF 556 Boundary Bay Rd. Point Roberts WA 98281 USA or via paypal at http://www.iahf.com/index1.html
The Life you Save Could Be Your Own. Please forward widely
If I gave you 15 testimonials, you’d say the same. Pathetic. — Garth
You are the pathetic one Mr. Turner
To all you neo-libs that oppose the war in Afghanistan and cry about how cruel it is consider some history. The death tolls by dictators just in the 20th century makes what is happening today pale by comparison. We sat back and watched and did nothing, or after all the damage was done.
Mao Ze-Dong – China 1958-61 and 1966-69,Tibet 1949-50 — 78,000,000.
Josef Stalin –USSR 1932-39 –23,000,000 ( the purges plus Ukraines famine. )
Adolf Hitler –Germany 1939-45 12,000,000 ( concentration camps and CIVILIANS
WWII )Hideki Tojo–Japan 1941-44 5,000,000 ( civilians in WWII )
Pol Pot Cambodia 1975-79 1,700,000
Kim II sung — North Korea 1948-94 1,600,000 ( purges and concentration camps )
Menghistu Ethiopia 1975-78 1,500,00
Ismmail Enver Turkey 1915 1,200,000 Armenians.
Yakubu Gowon Biafra 1967-70 1,000,000.
Then also look what’s happening now in Burma while all nations including the UN deplore what the military government is doing but are doing nothing to stop the death toll.
Wake up all you leftie cry babies.
One question===Do you have any friends in any party that actually associate with you?
By Brian Wilson on 05.16.08 8:47 am
Did your mother have any kids that lived,water head ?
By Eric Foreman on 05.16.08 12:52 pm
Shut up you stupid asshole . Garth already banned your ass once .
You can’t accuse me of targeting Garth for anything … perhaps Dion with one of those finned thingies
Btw, Garth … where can I get one of those finned thingies ??!!! … LOL
By Harry S on 05.16.08 11:35 am
Bad boy Bad boy what ya gonna do? What ya gonna do when they come for you?
Remember Airry, Attends are your Friends
RCMP says no charges to be laid in Cadman affair
After examining the allegations against Conservative Party officials, the RCMP say that no charges will be laid in the Chuck Cadman affair.
Hey Harry, Go over to Afghanistan maybe you can catch one of those finned thingie’s
By Men With Hats on 05.16.08 3:00 pm
Hatboy, collectively your statements reveal you to the a**hole of this blog, perhaps of the entire internet.
Jon Stewart did a great segment last night on Bush’s speech in Israel (Stewart is Jewish BTW) and captioned the segment ‘Golf War! Perfect! Absolutely PERFECT! LMAO!
By Charles Oxley on 05.16.08 2:30 pm
Gee… I saw this yesterday on Lou Dobbs I think, or some other CNN show… It seems the Yanks are also pushing back at their government approach on “Free Trade” and other international trade agreements.
Right on though – and worth repeating.
Hi wjp on 05.16.08 6:51 am,
I don’t know if I would go as fare as to say that Harry S on is a terrorist.
That is pretty extreme, they could put him away in a small cell for years without trial.
Without human contact human beings will go insane. It’s a form of torture.
Like water boarding!
Simple minds tend to look for simple answers to what they perceive to be a problem. I might also question Harry S’s morality to suggest assassination of any human being.
He could even be one of the sociopath that are out there?
Some are clever enough to stay out of jail, but you still don’t what to every deal with them if possible.
Harry S does not think very far ahead.
If he thinks killing someone is expectable, he forgets that they might do it to him next.
Remember: If they can do it to ‘them’ they could do it to ‘you’ and your family.
Does Harry S. want to live in a land that is not ruled by just laws, that applied to everyone equally? Like a ‘Dictatorship’ or ‘Fascist’ state.
Harry S. could just be another Neo-con that is quit messed up. They lie to get their own why. Screw everyone else. They even lie to them selves.
Perhaps Harry S. was given drinking water as an infant with fluoride in it? If you’re an infant and drink fluoridated water it will lower your IQ permanently!!!
(May be that was the plan, to keep the masses dumb, (So the Corporate run media can ‘Manufactures consent’ more easily???)
Fluoride they add to our drinking water is industrial TOXIC waste from the phosphate industry. It has many bad effects on the human body!!!
It even contains traces of arsenic and lead!
Tell your local Government to stop putting this poison in our drinking water NOW!
For good science based information on Fluoride go to:
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
Is it just me, or have we got a new batch of CPC trolls?
I wonder if the old ones just burnt out by realizing their pay was not enough to compensate for the loss of self respect.
Maybe the budget was increased to bleed off all those funds from unknown sources. (a weak smear attempt!!!) (snicker)
Or, have they just changed their names?
Live long and prosper, folks.
TTFN
TGIF
Wake up all you leftie cry babies.
By smoker on 05.16.08 2:35 pm
Before delivering your tainted SDA logic, might I suggest you actually read something.
Try this from above;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/all-the-presidents-nazis_b_102022.html
By Ted Browne on 05.16.08 11:08 am
Don’t forget to watch the video in the first link.
And who is the dictator you are inferring is an issue regarding Afghanistan?
By Charles Oxley on 05.16.08 2:20 pm
Charles, I believe the VAT in U.K. is 17.5%. The best thing is though it is buried in the prices. If the sticker says 3 pounds that is all you pay and the receipt will break the taxes down so you can see what was paid in tax. I have no idea why we can’t get the same kind of service here as they do in U.K. and Europe. It is far easier and if the government wants to raise the tax it would be easier to do so in my opinion. Everything we buy we have to have enough to cover the taxes added at the till.
Hi Herb on 05.16.08 9:55 am
Thanks.
Greg W.,
I know that your heart is in the right place, but every time you mention fluorides, I have a flashback to “Dr. Strangelove” and Brigadier-General Jack. D. Ripper’s monologue about fluoride in drinking water and the protection of his precious boldily fluids.
Maybe it’s PTSD from having drunk fluoridated water for something like 50 years.
Hi John Duddy. on 05.16.08 10:51 am,
Thanks for the link.
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05162008.html
By Men With Hats on 05.16.08 3:00 pm
Hatboy, collectively your statements reveal you to the a**hole of this blog, perhaps of the entire internet.
By Jim on 05.16.08 4:28 pm
^
That the best ‘ya can do ‘ya flaming creepazoid ?
Or, have they just changed their names?
By maybe Rhino? on 05.16.08 5:30 pm
Hello, maybe Rhino?.
Trolls wouldn’t have a clue about how to do something as simple as that.
They already know that Herrhardimdumjim and CRAP are on their way out, and they’re screaming blue murder as they blew their chance at being an effective alternative to the Libs.
Good riddance to bad rubbish!
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By Spiltbongwater on 05.16.08 6:13 pm
Hello Spiltbongwater, Charles here.
Thanks for the info.; I suppose the UK’s built-in VAT is akin to the former FST, which the GST replaced. I seem to remember that was about 13.5%.
You are correct, though — it would be a lot simpler if the GST was built right into the sticker price.
****************************************
BTW — when the election is called, PJW and Bonnie had two great lists which showed how CRAP has constantly lied, and failed in almost all respects.
If it’s okay with PJW and Bonnie, I would like to run the lists to the Kelowna Daily Courier and the Kelowna Capital News, for publication just prior to election day, so undecideds have a clear understanding of what CRAP is all about.
Thanks in advance.
Hi John Duddy. on 05.16.08 11:12 am
Thanks for the link
to Special Comment of May 14 2008.
A must see 10min +
Countdown: Special Comment “Bush Shut The Hell Up” Pt.01 10min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr8nrRZOpXw
First–who the hell is the huffingtonpost ?
Secondly–who is larissa ??? and what are her credentials ?
Finally– The dictators are those supporters of the Taliban and Osama who use children as sheilds, use children as suicide bombers, who rape and murder women and even young girls, who have no morals to commit the most vile acts against their own citizens.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/all-the-presidents-nazis_b_102022.html
By Ted Browne on 05.16.08 11:08 am
Don’t forget to watch the video in the first link.
And who is the dictator you are inferring is an issue regarding Afghanistan?
By Greg on 05.16.08 6:11 pm
And who is the dictator you are inferring is an issue regarding Afghanistan?
By Greg on 05.16.08 6:11 pm
By smoker on 05.16.08 7:33 pm
Your post referred to specific dictators, not a loose group of nameless faceless persons such as the entirety of the Taliban. So I ask again, who is the specific Dictator we are to fear and oppose?
And you didn’t read the articles or watch the video did you? The bulk of the information Ted Browne posted in the second link isn’t new on the net or in official circles for that matter. Go read it, and click the accompanying links and educate yourself as to how things really work. It wouldn’t be a bad idea if you brushed up on the Russian Revolution, Tsar Nicolas II and Rasputin too before you use Stalin as reference. Next, may I suggest a brief overview of the British involvement in Afghan and the Soviet experience there as well.
No SDA dodge and deflect into the realm of unrelated areas here Smokey.
. . . Rasputin . . .
By Greg on 05.16.08 8:10 pm
Years ago, I saw a documentary on Rasputin, and there is no doubt that he was a much larger than life character.
Be that as it may, after he became the Mad Monk there was one aspect of his life that changed quite dramatically.
Despite his madness, lack of appearance, other things which go toward the makings of a madman, he was able to seduce a woman simply by looking at her!
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder — for Rasputin, it was all in the eyes!
As always, Garth, wishing you the usual health and happiness and the rest of you a great day!
By brain on 05.16.08 1:09 pm
Well said, Brain. As usual. The people on here attacking Garth only show their lack of insight and critical thinking. Let’s hope they read your post, and become enlightened.
If it’s okay with PJW and Bonnie, I would like to run the lists to the Kelowna Daily Courier and the Kelowna Capital News, for publication just prior to election day, so undecideds have a clear understanding of what CRAP is all about.
Thanks in advance.
By Charles Oxley on 05.16.08 7:04 pm
Go for it Charles. Every litle bit counts. Harper’s outage can’t happen too soon for me.
Enough Cdns., including ourselves who are retired, would gladly have lived with a higher GST rate, offset by lower income tax percentages in order to have better lives.
By Charles Oxley on 05.16.08 2:20 pm
All consumption taxes are regressive and by their very nature unfair as there is no needs test that can accurately be applied.
I can understand why for some poeple and especialy retired people that a reduction in income tax would be better than a reduction in a consuption tax like the GST.
For example, in general retired people consume less than a family of four. I’m raising two kids. My guess is that at this point in your retired life you’re not consuming as much as me. The 2% GST reduction had a real and noticable effect on my cost of living and brining up my family.
Now before some over the top ctitic accuses me of bitching, I can tell you that I do not receive any GST credit. I don’t know the exact income figure at which any signifiant GST credit kicks in but it is extremely low. In any case, an income test is not a valid test as to how much GST you should get back because there’s know way of knowing how much any one person has consumed.
So, for example, a retired person living on X income my get a GST rebate of Y dollars. A family making the same income may get the same Y dollar rebate but I’d just about guarantee that they’ve consumed more than that retired person.
As much as I hate to say it, reducing the GST was a good move for families. Even incompetent people get lucky some times I guess.
, you know the comments were made in comparing relative spending priorities and had virtually little to do with the mission, I am really surprised you would say something like this, I always thought you were reasonably fair although slanted to the CPC view…you have proved me wrong again.
By wjp on 05.16.08 10:56 am
With all due respect WJP, As a veteran with 23 years service I was insulted by Turners remarks when he first posted them awhile back and I chastised him for it then and did so this time as well when he bought the issue up again. I find his remarks are even more insulting because they come from a person who in reality knows little about the military. Garth may be an expert on financial matters but an expert on the military he is not. Don’t forget that sometimes it is not what was said but how it was said and in Garth’s case this was one of those times. The sad thing about all this is that it appears to me that Garth feels he didn’t say anything wrong.
Cheers.
By smoker on 05.16.08 7:33 pm
First–who the hell is the huffingtonpost ?
Secondly–who is larissa ??? and what are her credentials ?
The Huffington Post is a paper that tells us what the MSM doesn’t or won’t even though they could.
AS for Larissa it seems to me she is a person who relatives went through hell during WW2.
What she reported is general knowledge concerning old Prescott Bush.
There’s also an interesting link in that article by Larissa on the detention center in Afghanistan.
Not sure your dictator comment concerns me.Have a good one.
The sad thing about all this is that it appears to me that Garth feels he didn’t say anything wrong.
Cheers.
By Van on 05.17.08 9:50 am
It seems that Garth is only writing what he is told by the Liberal Party officials. Maybe he is afraid that his newly found “buddies” in the Liberal Party will kick him out. Garth wants a political home.
I know you would take me in. — Garth
Years ago, I saw a documentary on Rasputin, and there is no doubt that he was a much larger than life character.
By Charles Oxley on 05.16.08 9:27 pm
Very definitely Charles. If there had never been a Rasputin, imagine what the destiny of the world might have been. The few people who know of him, think more about the song than the reality.
In regards to the Cadman affair, I found a brilliant short video by Rick Mercer:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a_NZrHp7Mu8&NR=1
Garth,
I don’t feel I need to comment on the actual blog that you have posted above. I know that you support our troops; its not an issue to me and most Canadians living in Ontario at all.
You didnt deserve to be smeared in this regard.
Daryn
Could one of those finned thingies be dropped on Stornoway ..and that would solve the Liberal leadershit problems
BY HARRY S 05.16.08 1:26 AM
Garth where can I get one of those finned thingies
BY HARRY S ON 05.16.08 11:35 AM
Are people who blog these types of comments checked by the RCMP? I think that’s only the case if the RCMP are alerted. So if anyone has already reported Harry S’s comment, I would hope that this Harry S will be checked out post-haste. This is the sort of comment that people are uncomfortable with, but it could be accidentally overlooked because we all don’t want to believe this sort of thing could be said in a public forum. Killing and assassination are not jokes, and certain people with unacceptable tendencies don’t understand that, and they don’t see anything wrong with making revealing statements. Anyone who could make a public joke about assassination has a problem, and we should be concerned. I hope someone reports Harry’s two comments to the RCMP as those sorts of online comments should at least be given proper scrutiny by proper authorities. I hope the RCMP are on top of this fellow who calls himself Harry S.