Main Street, Milton Ontario. From misquote to bloat in one easy lesson.
Below are the words of two Conservative bloggers who jumped my bones with relish last week when the local Milton paper screwed up and misrepresented me talking about the Canadian military mission in Afghanistan. As was shown here, the reporter who ‘quoted’ me got it wrong. That led to a local Tory attack dog chewing on me in a letter to the editor, and the whole thing turned into a national story. Sheesh.
In fact, sitting in a TV interview in downtown Vancouver on Tuesday afternoon, I was amused to hear the local reporter ask me about the controversy which was born of the Milton Champion. If anything, this shows me how the Con forces are so effective at transmission they could show bacteria how to slither.
In any case, we now know the words attributed to me were incorrect. We know the local editor did not attempt to verify them. We know the reporter never actually spoke to me. We know the local letter-writer just parroted and embellished this mistake. We know radio bubble-heads in Toronto and Calgary ran entire segments based on bad information and came to mythical conclusions. We know bloggers who called me despicable (The Torch) and a douche-bag (Right from Alberta) need to learn the difference between journalism and beating off. And we know that during this whole stupid episode, not a single person – newspaper writer, radio talk show host, local media, constituent letter writer, or blogger – spoke to me. Yikes.
Anyway, there are a few lessons here, one of which, obviously, is never go into politics. If you do, don’t have an opinion. Another lesson is that, surprisingly, a Conservative blogger can have a prickly ridge of ethics. A final one is that some people are so blinded by partisanship they can no longer practice their craft. Or deserve to do so. Even when they have three names.
An Apology: In retrospect, I think it is miserly not to offer an apology to Garth Turner for developing a story around what is now known to be an error in transcription. Garth Turner’s choice of words were sloppy. Omitting “Taliban” from the target description is notable, especially when there are Canadians out there who are quick to assume that Canadian soldiers (and any soldier from a Western nation) are war criminals laying waste to Afghanistan in support of oil interests (or something like that). There is no reason to give the radical left any reason, however slight, to think they are right in their absurd and scurrilous descriptions of Canada’s brave men and women. Canadian politicians speak with particular authority on matters of military policy, and so have a particular responsibility to be careful in how they describe the actions and tactics of Canadian soldiers. But it occurs to me, after a personally difficult weekend (the details of which are unrelated to this issue), that any such radical taking comfort in Garth Turner’s words are taking slight comfort indeed, since one sloppy turn of phrase does not erase the fact that Garth Turner has consistently voted for the mission. So Garth, don’t forget to mention the Taliban in the future when mentioning who is being targeted by Canadian soldiers (there are those who would like to see women and children in the crosshairs in order to advance their own agenda). And for goodness sake, if you know the quote was wrong, just say it was wrong. I left the door wide open for that explanation right from the beginning, and no one went through it. Faced with a quote that no one would definitively say was wrong, and some people said was right on the money (including you, in a roundabout way), I continued down the only path open. Now I have to climb back.
By John Turley-Ewart, PhD, Comment Editor
National Post
It took a while and a bit of good luck on Garth Turner’s part, but he finally figured out what he said about Canada’s combat mission in Afghanistan some weeks ago in Milton, Ont. Mr. Turner, if no one else, can now put this incident behind him.
This little drama began after a report in a local Halton, Ont. paper about a meeting between Mr. Turner and religious leaders in his community. The paper reported Mr. Turner saying:
“These are contradictory times … We don’t have funding for youth centres but we do have $150,000 for every shell bought for the sole purpose of destroying a village in Afghanistan. We could buy each Afghan a condominium with that money.”
That now appears to be wrong, much to the relief of Mr. Turner who originally responded to the raised eyebrows this report provoked by saying that he was taken out of context but that the words were “close enough.” Hence he “didn’t bother correcting” them.
When this came to my attention I argued that Mr. Turner had a responsibility to correct the record, as his words cast an unseemly light on our soldiers and their mission in Afghanistan.
Ironically, Mr. Turner owes the media he is so quick to smear thanks for helping to set the record straight because, at the end of the day, Mr. Turner wasn’t really sure what he had said.
At the now infamous meeting Stuart Service, a reporter for the Halton Compass, recorded exactly what Mr. Turner said. Here, according to Mr. Turner’s web blog, is what was recorded:
“As you know we live in a time that is complex and is contradictory. You know our country is at war. Our country is spending $150,000 on every artillery shell that we’re shooting in Afghanistan. Those artillery shells have GPS. They’ve got computers in the tips of them. And those computers fulfill no function but to guide that shell from our Canadian Army howitzers into villages to kill people. I mean that’s a reality.
“We’re there for a defined set of seasons. But, this is a contradictory time that we live in, when we don’t have enough funding for your youth centre. You know you could almost buy everyone in Afghanistan a condominium, right, for the dollars that we spend. So it is a very contradictory time.”
Now getting an apology out of Mr. Turner is a difficult business. He accused me some time ago of being a shill for the Conservative government because I dared criticize his absurd complaint about partisan messaging coming out of Tory MP offices. But at least in this incident Mr. Turner admits some small measure of culpability, saying “If I erred, it would seem, it was in not adding the obvious words, ‘who are Taliban.’ After all, why shoot those expensive shells, if not at the enemy?”
So we now know that Mr. Turner was pointing out the fact that the federal government has the funds to give our troops the weapons they need to hit the Taliban — while avoiding as best the can inflicting losses on innocent Afghanis — but Ottawa doesn’t have the money to fund a youth centre in his riding.
Mr. Turner is not spreading mischief about or troops at local Church Hall meetings. He is just spreading mischief about what government funds what, leaving the good people in his audience to believe that the decision to fund youth centres is made in Ottawa, rather than in provincial capitals.
Perhaps Mr. Turner might offer up his next clarification on the Canada Social Transfer (CST), and help the people of his riding figure out why he would lead folks to believe Ottawa doesn’t have money for youth centres when it sends money for these projects to provinces using the CST. Indeed, spending under Stephen Harper’s government has far exceeded even that of past Liberal governments, increasing the amount of funds available to provinces substantially. But if Ontario decides not to use federal money to fund youth centres, well, that is not Stephen Harper’s fault; it’s Dalton McGuinty’s. I guess Mr. Turner forgot to mention that.
jturley-ewart@nationalpost.com
61 comments ↓
John Turley-Ewart, PhD, Comment Editor National Post, depicted as follows;
http://www.ultimatetoysandgifts.com/images/Spinning_Top.jpg
PROPOSITION 1 … NATO ARTILLERY KILLING AFGHAN CIVILIANS (due to inaccurate artillery fire/bombing)
Anecdotal –
Karzai says NATO, US-led forces ‘careless’ in killing
Int’l Herald Tribune – Jun 23, 2007
“KABUL, Afghanistan: President Hamid Karzai accused NATO and U.S.-led forces Saturday of viewing Afghan lives as “cheap” with 90 civilians killed in airstrikes and artillery fire targeting Taliban militants over the last 10 days.
The alliance responded by saying, “We need to do better.”
‘Afghan life is not cheap’
Toronto Star – Jun 24, 2007 Last week, 52 civilians died when artillery was fired into Chora, a town in Uruzgan province where NATO troops fought the Taliban for three days…
Basic Premise…
The NATO-LED Afghan mission is intended to PROTECT Afghan civilians. Karzai was critical of civilian casualties arising from artillery shells being ‘lobbed’ into a warzone some 30 kilometres from the artillery firing position. It’s clear civilian casualties were NOT intended as part of NATO operations. Solution: Acquire more accurate artillery shells with GPS guidance capabilities, to eliminate/reduce civilian casualties.
It’s clear to me, AND OTHERS participating in this blog, The Hon. Garth Turner was talking about the Taliban in his discussions … NOT SOME WILD NATO DESIRE TO INFLICT CASUALTIES ON THE CIVILIAN POPULATION.
But, we must all remember, John Hurley-Tewart “controls the ink.” Maybe Hurley-Tewart could ‘take a break’ for a minute to ‘tote-up’ the cumulative costs to Canada for its efforts in Afghanistan … and, perhaps clarify why Sheila Fraser indicated we’re NOT delivering our troops’ requirements in a ‘timely’ manner. OK Mr. Hurley-Tewart?
Garth,
My sum of these “apologies” is that, they are actually not apologies but rather clarifications.
The first one is more sincere than the second. I wouldn’t expect much from Mr. Turley-Ewart, as the National Post is nothing but a Conservative pamphlet. (minus Don Martin, who speaks his mind)
All of this quick knee-jerk smearing is typical of the “Harper-era” conservatives. I believe it has to do with Harper’s character; he leads and the sheep follow. If they don’t submit to the Alpha male…..Then they pay big time.
Perhaps Harper should start to think of his legacy. For example:
Harris is basically remembered by Ontarians for his slashing and burning of programs and leaving a deficit that took the next government 4 years to fix, even after an unpopular tax hike. Sadly, I voted for Harris….once!
As for Harper, his legacy will be defined in history as: secretive, angry, ultra-partisan, ideologically driven, fake principles and ethics, anti-media and finally, PMO centralized.
He will be remember dearly for: assassinating the character of his opponents & suing them, bringing us close to deficit, the RCMP raid of CPC HQ, degrading parliament, mocking committees and attacking government agencies.
Wow how inspiring.
Anyway Garth, I hope the rest of your little media drama clears itself up.
Daryn
Get OPP Sergeant Cam Woolley on the phone immediately!
Why?
He should be ‘clocking’ the limo that passed a couple minutes ago.
“Farmers and Caledonia residents say Tory MP has failed to deliver”
“Finley dismissed the protesters as a bunch of bullies, claiming they terrorized her constituency staff.”
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/427537
QUESTION
Will the scrofulous, scruffy, and scurvy Director of Political Operations be going door-to-door with his better half during the upcoming? OOOPS … That’s what MISLEADING 10 PERCENTERS ARE FOR, ISN’T IT? Are these two guaranteed an afterlife after politics?
MUGSHOT:
http://www.garth.ca/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/doug-finley-big.jpg
Diane Finley before Immigration Committee…
“Maybe you could help us again in the same WONDERFUL way as you helped with the DISAPPEARED CANADIANS.” [paraphrased] to The Hon. Jim Karygiannis Scarborough—Agincourt, during discussions of the all-gnu
selective immigration bill. As an aside, a SUN MEDIA SCRIBE described the efforts of Solberg and Finley as hopeless and abysmal on immigration matters. Shades of Kafka …
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/editorsblog/2007/12/cbc_news_responds_to_conservat.html
“I write this public response to you because I believe that by its inaccuracy, innuendo, exaggeration and expressed malice towards hundreds of Canadian journalists you risk damaging not just your target, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, but also public faith in our political process.”
“inaccuracy, innuendo, exaggeration and expressed malice” appears NOT TO HAVE WON THE DAY, but THAT IS THE HARPER WAY!
Another RIPE QUOTE, surrounded by fruit flies. “When Finley first entered politics – she defeated former agriculture minister Bob Speller in the June 2004 election that returned Paul Martin’s Liberals with a minority – she often accused the government of over-promising and under-delivering. Those words are coming back to haunt her.
Now, square that with Harper’s Oakville Promise in January 2006.
“Harper promised goals that are “clear and measurable, so Canadians will know that a Conservative government has kept its word.”
“Instead of making phoney promises of huge benefits that never happen, we will deliver genuine, practical benefits that people experience,” Harper said, adding, “I believe it’s better to light one candle than to promise a million light bulbs.”
Well, Stevie, my PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE has been a loss of $113,289 in income trusts, and you can stick your light bubls where the sun don’t shine.
“I would be extremely surprised if the start date of construction was as late as this fall. I think it will be well before that,” Tom Lukiwski, Conservative MP for Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, said in a phone interview from Ottawa on Wednesday.
But, if the funds don’t flow by then, well … you can just bite me!
http://mysite.verizon.net/jimroth/uploaded_images/Love-703329.jpg
‘DIVVY’ MIRED IN DEEP DO-DO!
Promise made … Promise [????]
“If there is the political will, there is no reason in the world you can’t get the job done and get it done fully and completely within all the rules and regulations,” he said.
The city, province, and federal government each allocated $20 million for the IPSCO Place project through the Building Canada fund agreement. The $33-billion fund, which was created and is often touted by the federal government, has yet to divvy out its first dollar to a Canadian municipality.
Goodale called out the federal government for making “big flashy announcements” of the IPSCO Place funding on two occasions but not yet coming through with the cash.
“Still not a dollar has flowed and not a wheel has turned. The government keeps threatening the municipalities,” said Goodale.
“If it’s any comfort, it’s not just Regina. The same applies in Calgary, applies in Toronto, applies in Ottawa. The municipalities are being threatened that they dare not turn a wheel until they receive formal federal approval.”
Fiacco is hopeful that after the money comes through, he will be able to meet with Cannon and the Regina MPs to clear up the “mixed messages” that occurred during the process and make it more efficient for the future.
“Things happen when the three orders of government work collaboratively and I don’t think there has been a lot of collaboration here on the federal government’s side,” said Fiacco.
“(That’s) not a criticism but a fact and we all need to be on the same page as we move forward.”
‘Inconvenient truths’ about conservatives Leader-Post Wednesday, May 21, 2008
http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/letters/story.html?id=36bcc135-3a28-4fd4-abf3-97e75489b93c
Honoourable mentions:
Historically, right-wing governments tend to run deficits. Think of Grant Devine here in Saskatchewan or Mike Harris in Ontario, or Brian Mulroney federally or Margaret Thatcher in the U.K., or Ronald Reagan or the two Bushes in the United States. It must be something in their DNA!
http://winnipegsun.com/News/Canada/2008/05/21/5624141-sun.html
Most Canadians fear the worst for the nation’s economy, with almost half waiting for the financial sky to fall in coming months.
Despite a strong dollar and employment rate, the exclusive Nanos Research-Sun Media poll reveals only 13% of Canadians are pinning their hopes on a rosier economic picture in the next six months.
A gloomy 47.7% predict a weaker performance, while another 34.6% believe the economy will plateau and 4.7% aren’t sure what to think.
“An economic chill pretty much sums it up,” said pollster Nik Nanos. “People are worried about the economy and they think interest rates are going to go up.”
Good morning. Garth, I don’t care about this story so much. What really concerns me much more than this is the all out assault on Julie, Max’s former girlfriend. You really have not addressed this issue. I know you go after what you consider unfounded ’slamming’ by the media…so I was surprised when you refused to answer on the story as reported by Jane Taber, that you offended your female caucus members with lewd pictures and comments regarding Julie. Are you yammering on about the above so-called injustice to avoid coming clean about the degrading behavior as reported?
Just asking. L
I don’t believe this is atypical. I don’t think we have the press we need to support a healthy democracy. Didn’t we used to have laws preventing a couple of corporations from owning all our news sources? Wasn’t that a good idea?
If you can have left-handed compliments then these must right-handed apologies.
You call this journalism.Pleeease!.
I guess they couldn’t get a real job so they just started putting words together without checking for truth and accuracy.
Then blame the victim of their ignorance and expect us the great unwashed to buy their BS carte blanche just because they have the pen and the power to assassinate the good name and character of another public servant.
Is Garth perfect NO! but he does support our troops and that would have been VERY evident if ANYONE would have bothered checking ANY reliable source including Garth without first meeting a deadline with a story without substance. SHAME on these yellow journalists. They dishonor even that lowly station.
That led to a local Tory attack dog chewing on me in a letter to the editor, – Garth
Have you ever noticed that when walking your dog, if you pass by a smaller “rat” of a dog, that one always wants to pick a fight?
It happened to me this morning. As I was walking my 55lb hound, a small cockapoo, (15lbs soaking wet) wanted to pick a fight.
Why do I relate this story … the cockapoo can be equated to the Tory attack dog. “I think he needs a bigger box!”
Looks like CPC slimebags and sloppy “journalists” are trying to wiggle off a self-inserted hook too easily. Blaming you for omitting the enemy “who is Taliban” from the “target description” is absurd. Is there another enemy in A’stan in addition to what everyone calls the Taliban?
You are also correct in the reticence you showed in not denying outright the words attributed to you, in assuming that you did not know precisely the words you used in non-scripted speech.
The trouble is not politicians having opinions, but partisan lowlives malevolently twisting alleged opinions for political purposes. The sooner we get the neo-Republicans out of Canadian politics, the sooner we can get back to some semblance of normality.
By the way, I am slowly turning into a fan of political libel suits. Who has twisted more facts into slanderous allegation than our very own governing party? Perhaps a good dose of their own medicine would smarten them up.
Forget all this Afghanistan chit chat, all Canadians support our troops what has been questioned and will always be is the costs of Wars/conflicts and those big business interests who profit from it…..and so they should….dead of forever!
Garth what is important to each and every person is food…perhaps other readers of this blog should stop and think about the importance of food and the possibility of shortages world wide.
http://www.900chml.com/News/National/Article.aspx?id=21645
Think
THINK…….AND
THINK AGAIN…..
A gutless Con puke admitting what a low, specious piece of filth he truly is. In public. Desperately hoping to avoid a lawsuit.
Beautiful.
so you’ll be taking back your Cadman comments and apologizing to PMSH then? Or are you too blinded by partisanship?
Absolutely. As soon as he explains the tape. — Garth
need to learn the difference between journalism and beating off.
Garth, that so perfectly sums it up I can’t think of anything more to add.
I would, however, place a box of Handy Wipes nearby for the semi-apologists who come, tail between their legs to avoid a libel suit, to wipe their hands with.
Conservative smear tactics reflect desperation
Submitted by Elizabeth May on 16 May 2008 – 4:12pm.
Excerpts:
“Two years ago, as I ventured forth on the campaign trail for leadership, I said that I would know I was making real progress as leader of the Green Party when the Harper Conservatives start attacking me. It started earlier than I expected. In fact, they have been throwing mud and spin for over a year now. Of course, I have still not been honoured with millions of dollars in TV advertisements the way Stephane Dion has. Still, this week was a pretty fair bit of nastiness with not one, but two, misleading Harper press releases attacking me”…….
“This brings me to the second release from the Alliance Conservative Republican Party of Canada this week. This one was low even by Harper standards. At least I was in good company. This release attacked me as well as one of my heroes, Senator Romeo Dallaire, and two Liberal MPs who happen to be friends of mine, Garth Turner and John Godfrey.”
Full article at http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/4615
Wow – worst apologies ever. ‘Yes, we screwed up, but it’s a little bit your fault anyway.’
Any apologies or retraction from the original source of the mis-quote? Can we assume they will now carry a tape recorder instead of relying on hastily written notes?
In the US they have a site called “Media Matters”. They examine all the statements made by journalists, pundits, etc. and set out the “truth”. They show how misleading journalists, radio talk jocks, MSM are.
I think we really need something like this in Canada – then the people like Janke, National Post, etc. can’t get away with their nonsense.
Garth…time to focus your blog back on important issues like policies on the environment, economic development, and social justice.
I recently downloaded some interesting information from the StatsCan web site on crime in Canada. Regardless of what the Conservatives would like us to believe Canada is actually getting safer and has LESS crime than we did a decade ago. There is no need for a ‘get tough on crime’ agenda.
For example, overall violent crime is down 5%, homicide is down 14%, overall property crime is down 32%, and break and enters are down 43%. And, overall youth crime is down 6% in the past 10 years and down 25% from its peak in 1991. So, even though Canada is actually becoming MORE safe and MORE crime free, it seems more people are fearful of being the victims of crime.
I watched an interview recently with the author of Risk: The Science and Politics of Fear and found it fascinating. According to the author we respond to impressions in our unconscious mind which are based on incidents that we can easily recall (like a sound bite news item for example), as oppossed to responding to things based on logic and reason.
The author used a recent example of a ’statistic’ that was recently in the media about “50,000 sexual preditors are on the internet at any given time prowling for child victims”. When he took the time to actually check this out (all the way to the FBI offices in Virginia) he found that was just an invented number – there actually is no way that anyone can calculate how many people are on the internet, let alone how many sexual preditors may be using it. It was a great example of how the population can be manipulated by the invention of “statistics”.
This may be one of the reasons why the Conservatives appear to be purposely sending out gobs of misinformation to the Canadian public. The majority of people are intellectually lazy and do not question what they see or hear, nor do they question anything by applying some logic to it. Shame on us for being so gullible and naive.
One of the great things that your blog can do is provide real facts about real issue to help educate the Canadian public. I would encourage you to post material that is factual (along with sources of the data) and refutes the mass of garbage being spewed out by the Conservatives. No one appears to be holding them accountable for their campaign of misinformation.
You were/are in good company. They twisted Dallaire’s words around too.
So much for civil discourse in this country.
Hmmm – I wonder when the apology is going to go up on the Conservative main page?
Maybe I won’t hold my breath.
Hi Molly on 05.21.08 12:13 am
Thanks for the information on Bill-C51
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article/235930096-canadas-police-state-bill-c51-camouflaged-as-a-health-bill
Now what do we do about this? It’s insane! Bill C-51, read it and weep people, this is NOT A HEALTH BILL!
On April 8th 2008 The Health Minister of Canada introduced a totally unnecessary bill, that is quickly being forced through Parliament to attack the Natural health products and services industry on behalf of big Pharma. The public is being deceived and not informed of the police state provisions written into this bill.
The government is using the slogan that we need this new bill to protect our health. That’s a complete fraud and deception.
We already have all the necessary laws in place to protect us. Unlike the regulated prescription drugs, no one has ever died from consuming or using any alternative natural health therapies, products or services. And believe me, if anyone had. The law would have quickly stepped in with our previously existing and very effective laws .
Under Bill C-51 the State could:
· Enter private property without a warrant
· Take your property at their discretion
· Dispose of your property at will
· Not reimburse you for your losses
· Seize your bank accounts without a warrant
· Charge owners shipping and storage charges for seized property
· Store your property indefinitely
· Levy fines of up to $5,000,000.00 and/or seek 2 years in jail per charge
· Will not have to report seizures to a court.
· They can charge you just for talking about or promoting natural alternatives
With your assets and money under their control will you be able to defend yourself in Court?
Have you seen this yet?
Freedom to Fascism in 10 steps. 6min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7141646342955677061&q=naomi+wolf+10+step&total=32&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
“Belief in myth avoids the discomfort of thought.”
What kind of world do you and your family want to live in?
Are you well informed?
Have you been paying attention?
(From Student Bloopers.)
Garth,
The degradation of our educational system may account for the ignorance portrayed by some so-called ‘journalist’. here are two primo examples of education today.
The nineteenth century was a time of a great many thoughts and inventions. People stopped reproducing by hand and started reproducing by machine. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers to spring up.
Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick raper, which did the work of a hundred men.
Obviously, this explains the increase in beer guts, as men no longer have to do such menial things as reproduction.
Not to worry Garth.The only people who read the National Smear are Black’s ffrinds.But then look where Conrad is spending his retirement years.Rather appropriate I would say.The CPC Harperites are good at twisting words,n’est-ce pas?
Perhaps Mr. Turner might offer up his next clarification on the Canada Social Transfer (CST), and help the people of his riding figure out why he would lead folks to believe Ottawa doesn’t have money for youth centres when it sends money for these projects to provinces using the CST. Indeed, spending under Stephen Harper’s government has far exceeded even that of past Liberal governments, increasing the amount of funds available to provinces substantially. But if Ontario decides not to use federal money to fund youth centres, well, that is not Stephen Harper’s fault; it’s Dalton McGuinty’s. I guess Mr. Turner forgot to mention that.
jturley-ewart@nationalpost.com
posted by Garth Turner on 05.21.08 @ 2:07 am |
Indeed Garth these are contradictory times. You are one of the biggest contradictions.
So Garth, tell us about your youth centre that Stephen Harper won’t fund but instead chooses to use that money to bomb villages in Afghanistan. Thats the partisan spin you condemn others for yet your daily blog is full of it.
You don’t seem to be able to tell the truth on any level. You and your groupies justify it by claiming the tories lie.
You really are a sad individual.
By slg on 05.21.08 8:28 am
EXCELLENT suggestion “slugger”… (smile)
The present gooberment have manipulated the MSM with disturbing efficiency. Historically, other dictatorships – like Germany’s “National Socialist Party” – used these tactics and their results are well documented.
Those who follow current events and politics often find the mistruth, but unfortunately, more and more Canadians are becoming sheeple.
Now… how do we do it… hmmm…
You don’t seem to be able to tell the truth on any level. You and your groupies justify it by claiming the tories lie.
You really are a sad individual.
By Janice on 05.21.08 9:31 am
Garth, Isn’t that touching? Janice cares about you. She doesn’t care one iota about truth, objectivity, the actions of her Idol Steve, but she cares about you.
Do you feel sad? I don’t feel sad. I feel happy, but then you and I are normal inviduals with functional brains, or as George Carlin would say:
I’m in the moral minority! I don’t think there’s really such a thing as morality. I think it’s a human construct designed to facilitate the control of people. Values, ethics, legal standards-all of these things are human generated, and they’re lumped together under the same vague idea called morality.
But suppose humans got it wrong? Suppose there is no actual actual, objective morality? Suppose there’s just a natural, worldy, secular, common-sense standard of behaviour who’s purpose is what’s best for getting along and what’s best for survival? That would be a good system. Why should a system like that be overlaid wih a sense of spooky, mystical, judgmental oversight?
Well, that should rattle the Funnymentalists who believe God is out to punish everyone but them. Because they are ’special.’
Someone should drop a note to Harper with that concept, and relay it to his new Buddy Olmert in Israel I think.
I would suggest sending a copy to Bush, but we all know he is too illiterate to comprehend it.
As to saying the ‘Tories lie’…We, the informed, know that is not allowed in the HoC. One must use the proper term that they ‘misspoke’! Yes, they certainly have that down pat. As do they cute little sheep that come here, like Janice.
“You don’t seem to be able to tell the truth on any level.” – Janice at 9:31 a.m.
Well, I nominate Janice for a nice, juicy libel suit. She should be forced to prove you not being “able to tell the truth at any level” in a court of law. We’d see who the “sad individual” really is.
Brought forward from the “He gets it” thread so that it is missed:
QUOTE
Sorry for the delay, but I’ve got stuff going on that makes this look like small potatoes. But that doesn’t absolve me of the responsibility to set it right. The last post has been appropriately updated, and all posts link to it.
By Steve Janke on 05.20.08 11:03 pm
UNQUOTE
The tax increase Flaherty won’t admit to
BLAST FURNACE CANADA
Tuesday, May 20, 2008
The tax increase Flaherty won’t admit to
In 1985, as a budget restraint measure, then finance minister Mike Wilson ordered a partial deindexing of tax brackets and personal credits, saying they would increase only on the portion above 3%, if inflation was above that level. Because of sound economic fundamentals from the private sector, however, the CPI most years was either below or barely above that. As a result, we Canadians got hosed because even though the tax rates didn’t increase more and more of us creeped up into higher brackets with annual wage increases.
Thankfully, Paul Martin finally put an end to this shell game in 2000. True, he made us wait six years — but he finally restored full indexing. Unfortunately, general increases in the personal exemption over and above inflation hasn’t been entirely retroactive. Right now, the federal exemption is $9600; inflation dictates it should be about $12,000 to $13,000 if we set today’s dollars back in 1985.
So what’s my beef on this one? Well, first, the exemption should be raised up to its proper level, maybe not immediately but phased in over four years. But there’s another one.
Although inflation last year was 2.5%, the personal exemption remains frozen at the same level as last year. It should be, at a minimum, $9840. Flaherty will argue that the brackets went up. Fine. He will also say Canadians are saving income taxes, what with an exemption for kids and a working income tax benefit. That’s fine too, I do support both also.
But single people need a tax break too. Either the exemption should be increased across the board for all which works for everyone (since putting the exemption where it should be at least would save everyone $14.76, but hey every little bit helps!); or the feds should adopt something similar to what exists in Québec, a “living alone” amount.
Otherwise, the “tax cutter” is actually increasing taxes behind our backs. Which makes Slim Jim a liar.
Good morning. Garth, I don’t care about this story so much. What really concerns me much more than this is the all out assault on Julie, Max’s former girlfriend. You really have not addressed this issue. I know you go after what you consider unfounded ’slamming’ by the media…so I was surprised when you refused to answer on the story as reported by Jane Taber, that you offended your female caucus members with lewd pictures and comments regarding Julie. Are you yammering on about the above so-called injustice to avoid coming clean about the degrading behavior as reported?
Just asking. L
By Leasa on 05.21.08 7:05 am
Leasa, if you cared anything about Canada, you would stop this stupid nonsense. You sometimes play the nice girl & then come up with these stupid comments. You are nothing but a fake, phony person & nothing you say will change that fact. The real facts is that the opposition parties asked in Question Period “Was there a security check done on Ms. Julie C, Yes or NO. That was a fair & sensible question that I would have expected your party to ask if the shoe had been on the other foot. Harper could have put the matter to rest by answering that simple question. Unless of course they neglected do a security check & he didn’t want to come out with egg on his face.
How can you possibly support a corrupt government like the Reform/Alliance known now as the CPC? If you cared anything about all Canadians, you would question your beloved Harper & his blind followers. Oh! Excuse me. I forgot your one of them. They can do no wrong.
****
Indeed Garth these are contradictory times. You are one of the biggest contradictions.
So Garth, tell us about your youth centre that Stephen Harper won’t fund but instead chooses to use that money to bomb villages in Afghanistan. Thats the partisan spin you condemn others for yet your daily blog is full of it.
You don’t seem to be able to tell the truth on any level. You and your groupies justify it by claiming the tories lie.
You really are a sad individual.
By Janice on 05.21.08 9:31 am
Janice/Catherine/Leasa whoever the hell you are, it really is you who is guilty of being sad individuals. You are of mind that think canadians are falling for all the propaganda your spewing but I have news for you. Canadians are seeing right through it. Yep, give you guys enough rope & you’ll hang yourselves. Is the rope getting a little tight yet?
Regards
Well, Stevie, my PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE has been a loss of $113,289 in income trusts, and you can stick your light bubls where the sun don’t shine.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 05.21.08 4:53 am
Too bad you didn’t hold on to your income trusts. As reported on Report On Business television last week, income trusts have fully recovered there capital. You also would have continued to collect your monthly distributions.
Speaking of class. How about this…The concept that we have to honour our agreements?
Rae follows own path on Afghanistan mission
“The real question is, we can’t actually leave. We made a commitment until 2011. We signed the Afghan Compact. We’re members of the NATO alliance. It’s not simply open for us to say … that we’re going simply to cut and run,”
Now, the other side of that position is this ‘What mandates are in place for the progress of the Afghan Government, and its forces, in the agreement?’
All contracts are bilateral, and if the Afghan government violates the agreement, we are no longer under an obligation to abide by it.
As John Ralston Saul points out ‘The old Protestant mentality of inescapable contracts is not realistic.’ That applies to both loans, monetary contracts, and definitely to a war which has no foreseeable victory. The failure in the immediate past of the World Bank and IMF to write-off Third World debt is the major cause of the wars we have ongoing today.
Rational people realize, like the fisherman, when it is time to ‘cut bait, and go home!’
Although it’s not May 23rd, it’s never too early for a good poem. There was a statue of Al Purdy unveiled yesterday.
The woman he speaks about in this poem never knew about it until someone traced her after he died.
Today, in this limestone part of the world, ancient seabed from which the oceans have retreated, the limey soil is beloved by lilacs. They grow like weeds.
And
“…- the whole world smells of lilacs,
the whole damn world.”
—–
May 23, 1980.
by Al Purdy
I’d been driving all day
arrived home around 6 p.m.
got something to eat and slept an hour
then I went outside
and you know
- the whole world smells of lilacs
the whole damn world.
I have grown old
making lists of thing I wanted
to do and other lists
of words I wanted to say
and laughed because of the lists
and forgot most of them
- but there was a time
and there was this girl
this girl with violet eyes
and a lot of other people too
because it was some kind of a party
- but I couldn’t think of a way
some immediate plan or method
to bathe in that violet glow
with a feeling of being there too
at the first morning of the world.
So I jostled her elbow a little
spilled her drink all over
did it again a couple of times
and you know it worked
it got so she winced
every time she saw me coming
but I did get to talk to her
and she smiled reluctantly
a little cautious because
on the basis of observed behaviour
I might be mad
and then she smiled
- altho I’ve forgotten her name
it’s on one of those lists
I have grown old
but these words remain
tell her for me
because it’s very important
tell her for me
there will come one May night
of every year that she’s alive
when the whole world smells of lilacs.
—–
‘People’s poet’ Al Purdy’s statue unveiled
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080521/purdy_statue_080521/20080521?hub=Canada
Love it how it’s still your fault, eh
Garth?
First of all, a lot of my friends are spending a great deal of time in Afghanistan. I worry a great deal about them, but don’t question why we are in Afghanistan. At all.
Today’s reporting that over 6 million kids (now a majority of them girls) are now in school throughout the country when 5 years ago it was less than 700k, and all boys, is what we are there for. In a generation, the Talib will be doing what they do, and everyone will shake their heads in sad wonder.
Onto the substantive point: just because GPS gets a round into a village in no way means a) the targeting was right in the first place or b) innocents are not in the same space at the same time. So, maybe they can blow villages up (duh, it’s a frikken arty shell (or 10), not a bucket of KFC) c) wind and weather cooperate.
The entire mythology around precise weapons is so misconstrued, it is laughable and is designed, in my humble opinion, to prevent us from considering the harder questions because it is easier to think they are antiseptic and clean, and they are not. Even when they function perfectly.
Let’s courage up and say that we’ve endowed our troops with the moral authority to take this action, however devastating the outcomes might be on an individual basis and drop the silly pretensions the Cons have trotted out (again).
So maybe they are Taliban villages, Taliban aligned villages, or villages under occupation by the Taliban. Who gives a rats? These shells land in villages (or not, depending on where the action is) and blow things up.
If you are so detached from the power of what we are deploying in Afghanistan, check out any of the “open” media sources that have this kind of video evidence available (www.liveleak.com is a good source, but be forewarned, there is heavy stuff on this site).
I think it is one thing to say we support our troops, it is an entirely different thing to understand what that support implies.
I think I understand it. And I support our entire engagement in Afghanistan.
And yes, our GPS shells might blow up villages. Get comfy with it kids. It’s a reality we’ve asked our troops to live.
W.
Well, Mr. Turner, those are a couple of pathetic apologies alright. At least you got something from the disreputable and dishonourable hacks, even if they only conceded out of fear over a libel suit.
What is becoming clearer and clearer to ordinary Canadian is that Conbots don’t need no stinkin’ facts before setting their fingers to their keyboards and saying whatever pops into their pinheads.
====
Hope you’re enjoying your visit to Vancouver even if it is awful here: wet, crowded, boring and not worth visiting…
Too bad you didn’t hold on to your income trusts. As reported on Report On Business television last week, income trusts have fully recovered there capital. You also would have continued to collect your monthly distributions.
By George B on 05.21.08 10:41 am
Yes, the ENERGY TRUSTS, to some extent have recovered. The other income trusts have not. By his actions, Flaherty caused such chaos in the marketplace, it caused valuations to come thundering down. I’m sure many other income trust investors, (I’ve heard as many as four million were negatively affected)not in possession of the Flaherty/Harper Ouija board have suffered the same fate. Then, of course, Flaherty left the field open to much greater foreign acquisition, with the proviso they will pay NO TAXES. The Flaherty system ACTUALLY PROMOTED TAX LEAKAGE, DEBT FINANCING AND PLUNDER OF CANADIAN TRUSTS. If you’re suggesting ‘hindsight is 20-20,’ that’s true, but Flim Flam Dim Jim Flaherty gets full credit for the losses, as Harper does for breaking the promise.
As an example of CPC ‘blind voting’ on the matter;
MP should represent people, not the PM Standard Freeholder, Canada – 29 Apr 2008
“Something is lost in our so-called democratic system when our representative in Ottawa follows the party line issued by the PMO and doesn’t bother to thoroughly check back with the people he represents.
Following the fateful “Halloween Massacre” of income trusts (yes, that again) carried out by our federal minister of finance, Jim Flaherty, one of my associates called our local MP to complain about the loss of $35 billion in asset value overnight. Mr. Lauzon admitted he didn’t understand anything about the trusts and yet he subsequently voted for the bill in the House of Commons. At a meeting this past week in company with Senator Marjorie LeBreton, when challenged, he said he didn’t own any stocks but had checked back with a local stock broker back at that time. Does one stockbroker represent the electorate of this constituency? In the meantime, before the critical vote, I and others had sent him the many reports by professionals proving that the tax leakage issue was hollow and that there would be serious consequences for the country if the bill was enacted (now proven to be true). This would have been Mr. Lauzon’s springboard to truly test local feelings.
Several of us would have been happy to discuss the matter and give him a better understanding of our dilemma to take back to the caucus. We were completely ignored.”
I’M HOPING FOR AN IMMEDIATE ELECTION. I WILL FORCEFULLY CONFRONT AS MANY LYING CPC GOVERNMENT MEMBERS AS POSSIBLE DURING THE RUNUP TO ELECTION DAY.
Too bad you didn’t hold on to your income trusts. As reported on Report On Business television last week, income trusts have fully recovered there capital. You also would have continued to collect your monthly distributions.
By George B on 05.21.08 10:41 am
Well, isn’t your hindsight 20/20.
Your “too bad” quote is one that I’ve heard a thousand times over during my tenure as a pro trader. I suppose you would have kept your positions. A bit of a smart ass , aren’t you.
The fact will always remain, the Reformers dropped a bomb on the IT market and investors quickly reacted to yet another broken promise.
Owning an income trust now is like owning a time share. The value is limited over a limited amount of time.
A bit of a smart ass aren’t you.
The fact will always remain, the Reformers dropped a bomb on the IT market and investors quickly reacted to yet another broken promise.Owning an income trust now is like owning a time share. The value is limited over a limited amount of time.
By Ron p on 05.21.08 11:27 am
That was my sense of the comment as well, Ron. …. Someone deriving actual pleasure from another sustaining losses due to believing the Harper PROMISE.
I hope they like candy … My specialty is jawbreakers.
Too bad you didn’t hold on to your income trusts. As reported on Report On Business television last week, income trusts have fully recovered there capital. You also would have continued to collect your monthly distributions.
By George B on 05.21.08 10:41 am
Well, isn’t your hindsight 20/20.
Your “too bad” quote is one that I’ve heard a thousand times over during my tenure as a pro trader. I suppose you would have kept your positions. A bit of a smart ass , aren’t you.
The fact will always remain, the Reformers dropped a bomb on the IT market and investors quickly reacted to yet another broken promise.
Owning an income trust now is like owning a time share. The value is limited over a limited amount of time.
By Ron p on 05.21.08 11:27 am
I don’t think George is a smart ass, just very uninformed as to how markets operate.
That was my sense of the comment as well, Ron. …. Someone deriving actual pleasure from another sustaining losses due to believing the Harper PROMISE.
I hope they like candy … My specialty is jawbreakers.
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 05.21.08 11:50 am
It’s sometimes difficult to read in the emotional intent of blog comments or e-mail messages but I’ve heard that line so many times, it was easy to sense.
To me, George is a bit of a wannabe know-it-all. My apologies if I’m wrong George.
If I’m right then he’s the type of person who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Candy is dandy, but liqour is quicker.
Have a good day PYOTR PETROBITCH.
Well, isn’t your hindsight 20/20.
Your “too bad” quote is one that I’ve heard a thousand times over during my tenure as a pro trader. I suppose you would have kept your positions. A bit of a smart ass , aren’t you.
The fact will always remain, the Reformers dropped a bomb on the IT market and investors quickly reacted to yet another broken promise.
Owning an income trust now is like owning a time share. The value is limited over a limited amount of time.
By Ron p on 05.21.08 11:27 am
In fact I did keep my income trusts. They represented 20% of my portfolio.
People who jump in and out of the market
(market timing) will always lose out.
I don’t think George is a smart ass, just very uninformed as to how markets operate.
By wjp on 05.21.08 12:10 pm
And what is your level of “expertise”
in the market? My income trusts are doing fine.
There’s a bad combinations; a media with with little interest in accurate reporting and an MP with problems expressing himself without indulging in melodrama. Neither one of the articles reported above was particularly Garth-friendly, IMO. and the claim that nobody spoke to him on the issue before commenting is a litle humourous coming from Garth Turner.
I’d imagine very few of us know much of anything about anyone else here; mostly we’re complete strangers. Let’s not overdo the psychobabble.
Turley_Ewat: You are so pathetic. Turning a smear into another smear.
You can’t admit you were wrong so you decide to shift the blame to someone else–Dalton McGuinty!! Yes, it’s Dalton’s fault that you are a selective Con reader who picks and chooses the nouns and verbs he likes and then embellishes them.
Nice way to turn an attack on Garth into an attack on McGuinty.
You Cons are so lacking in integrity.
Catherine: Julie is not a victim.
Besides, I think Harper and Co. have cancelled all programmes that would have helped her challenge the alleged smear.
Regards
By Irene on 05.21.08 10:40 am
Well said, Irene. And it needed saying.
By Bill-Muskoka on 05.21.08 10:45 am
As John Ralston Saul points out ‘The old Protestant mentality of inescapable contracts is not realistic.’ That applies to both loans, monetary contracts, and definitely to a war which has no foreseeable victory. The failure in the immediate past of the World Bank and IMF to write-off Third World debt is the major cause of the wars we have ongoing today.
Rational people realize, like the fisherman, when it is time to ‘cut bait, and go home!’
…………………………………
I hope this also applies to Canada reneging on it’s onerous Kyoto Treaty targets … all messed up due to the intentional neglect by the past Chretien-Martin-Dion regimes … all to sandbag Canada into purchasing Billion$$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China et al … so obvious now…!!!
In fact I did keep my income trusts. They represented 20% of my portfolio.
People who jump in and out of the market
(market timing) will always lose out.
By George B on 05.21.08 1:14 pm
Ok, so you kept your income trust positions. If you are that smart as you claim to be then surely you must have backed up the truck and loaded it up at a 30% discount.
AHHH , you didn’t do that , did ya?
I know you didn’t because I know your type otherwise you would have said so in your bragging comment.
Ok, so you kept your income trust positions. If you are that smart as you claim to be then surely you must have backed up the truck and loaded it up at a 30% discount.
AHHH , you didn’t do that , did ya?
I know you didn’t because I know your type otherwise you would have said so in your bragging comment.
By Ron p on 05.21.08 9:40 pm
I take the ‘capabilities’ expressed at face value, knowing full well he has not yet been commissioned to represent Harper’s immaculate contraption, which would involve a cross country tour to explain his seemingly rare good fortune to the other 3,999,999 who incurred losses. Beyond that, I suspect he might also be involved in a used car dealership in Peterborough. Maybe Harper will wind the odometer back and agree to a restitution plan for the rest of us.
Your earlier timeshare analogy has relevance.
Garth, we must remember one thing; let’s never stoop to these levels of immorality, categorizing, labelling, and sterotyping.
Cons seem to have a problem with Dion. They sure spend a lot of time dressing him up and dressing him down. They love his goorfus picture. I love it to; I like it because it shows a real and personable, approachable man that is ready to take the reigns in Canada. I feel assured that he will be the next PM of our dear Canada. He loves Canada.
I don’t think very many taxpayer’s understand the Kyoto Accord. I sure don’t. What’s up with all the accusations without connections to formal information? Thanks.
Cons are smart, there is no doubt; I could never be a con, I would fail the entry level test. Wow, they’re good at being deviant.
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By Irene on 05.21.08 10:40 am
Irene, you do protest too much. Chill.
Leasa
Garth…you forgot the Income Trust disaster when you mention Flaherty’s incompetence. Seems Liberals have given up on supporting the Income Trust crowd. I don’t see any mention of it on Liberal propaganda anymore. If Liberals want to abandon the Income Trust issue then they will find a couple of million seniors abandoning them. Why have the Liberals stopped taking about fixing Income Trusts? Why is it not mentioned on the Victory Fund site?
By Irene on 05.21.08 10:40 am
Irene, you do protest too much. Chill.
Leasa
By Leasa on 05.22.08 9:37 am
I think Leasa you should take your own advice. If there’s anything I detest the most, it is liars.
You are of mind that think canadians are falling for all the propaganda your spewing but I have news for you. Canadians are seeing right through it. Yep, give you guys enough rope & you’ll hang yourselves. Is the rope getting a little tight yet?
Regards
By Irene on 05.21.08 10:40 am
Well Irene, it apparent that Canadians are not buying all the propaganda that the Liberals are spewing either. So it seems that the rope is getting tighter for you and the Liberals as well. So that leaves us with another Conservative minority which I and others have been saying for the last 2 years. Did you notice that very few people except for the Liberals themselves are even talking about the Liberals even getting a minority government in the next election. Sorry to beak it to you but it certainly doesn’t bode well for Dion and the Liberals now does it.
SAVED UNDER POSTERIORS IN POSTERITY!
“With POLICE WATCHING OVER THE CROWD, AND PLAINCLOTHES RCMP SITTING AMONGST IT” …
SnakPak Kenney TRIES A BLUEBERRY WAFFLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3tGU0yRdQ