Well, that was impressive.
Three hundred comments received on a Sunday when I asked what words of advice to give Stephane Dion on the timing of the next election. The fact he may not ask me, of course, has totally no bearing on my telling him.
There are confidence votes this week. Like you, I will wait and see what his strategy is. He may ring Steve’s bell. He may not. But if the decision’s to delay, I’ll bet the sole reason will be the green plan.
It ain’t hard to see the fire this lights under the guy. When he talks about doing the right thing for the planet and energizing the economy at the same time, Dion goes from passionate to messianic. He’s had a team toiling seven days a week on getting it right, and I suppose we’re closer.
Conservatives – Dippers now, too – are working overtime to discredit the plan before they’ve seen it. By painting it as a gas tax, they seek to engender the simplest and most profound fears of financial stress. That’s rich, since it’s Harponomics which has cost us so many manufacturing jobs, goosed the dollar, cut the wrong tax, hollowed out the surplus, mushroomed spending and welcomed the US recession.
It would be complete loss if such verbal carpet bombing stops this debate before it starts. The Dion plan is such a sweet deal for most Canadians, including the embattled middle class, that it needs to be known. It’s almost like a giant tax-cut plan with environmental benefits.
In any case, I suspect it will get out the door soon. Then, judge for yourself. I have.
The Big Lie
Below is a letter published in Monday’s Ottawa Citizen, written by Harper natural resources minister Gary Lunn. It’s a disappoinment indeed when a federal cabinet minister can no longer tell citizens the truth. Perhaps it’s sadder still when a minister’s name is stamped, without his knowledge or needed approval, on words he certainly did not write. — Garth
We have all felt the pinch at the pumps recently, as the price of gas has risen in leaps and bounds.
The opposition has said the government should fix the price — while at the same time calling for massive gas taxes. This is hypocritical.
Canadians are smart. They know that the world price of oil and gas is based on supply and demand. With countries like China and India growing very quickly, their demand grows, and so there is a higher price.
Stéphane Dion’s carbon tax plan (which could be the largest tax increase in our nation’s history) would push gas prices and heating oil prices to record levels, and this would have a domino effect and push up the cost of everything we buy, sell, or trade.
Food, services and even goods we export would rise in cost.
That is not good for our economy, and especially hard on middle- and low-income families. Stéphane Dion and Jack Layton would probably be fine, but average hard-working Canadians, particularly those people with fixed incomes, would suffer.
Since coming to office just over two years ago our Conservative government has taken actions that will provide nearly $200 billion in tax relief over 2007-08 and the following five years. This will reduce the federal tax burden to its lowest point in nearly 50 years.
That means Canadians are keeping more of what they earn. In fact, with the GST being reduced to five per cent, Canadians will save half a billion dollars more on gas alone this year. At the same time, we have invested more than $9 billion in green programs, while forcing big oil and big industry to cut their greenhouse gas emissions. Canadians know how to choose between higher taxes and lower taxes.
With Stéphane Dion we would hurt Canada’s economy, and hurt low and middle-income families who can’t afford his massive carbon tax.
Gary Lunn, Ottawa
Minister of Natural Resources
176 comments ↓
I wish yo had writen this earlier today cause was Ignatieff’s event today, taking a few pictures and to show my support for your EMS and Police and Fire Departments.
Grab a couple of funny shots of Iggy (already posted one)
But if I had read this earlier I might have question Iggy about this as well.
You have my interest peaked Garth.
Hon Garth Turner,
Please take a few moments of your time to watch the trailer I’ve copied below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UOVug3v4oI I have the full length DVD and will be dropping it off to your Milton office at some point in the near future.
I’m all for protecting the environment, but C02 and methane are not the evil green house gasses that the IPCC says they are. What we should be worried about is the clear cutting of rain forests, genetically modified foods and cross breeding of Plant, Animal and Human DNA.
4 of the basic requirements for life on this earth are Oxygen, C02, Sunlight and all its wave lengths and most importantly Water.
This video has top Professors from across this great nation of ours stating that All Gore is wrong and that the IPCC is not objectively telling the whole story.
Thank you for your time.
Good luck !
Better get it ready. I understand sad sack Jack is so rattled by Steves ‘leaked’ ambition to prorogue parliament that he is going to try and take the government down on Monday.
Think about it. Slippery Steve and the Dim are closer to the real numbers than anyone and may know something we dont- like say the economy is really shot to shit. An election late this year or early next may happen in the environment of a full blown recession. I dont think prorogueing will benefit their future aspirations given that scenario. So, get the word out that prorogue is being contemplated. That should spook the opposition into doing something stupid. Force a snap election before all the bad news gets out and bingo these bums form another government instead of being swept into the dust bin of history.
Jack, who be not so nimble or so quick, may be getting suckered….again.
Can’t wait to see the plan! In fact, I wish everything else would go away. I keep checking this blog and other sources to see when it’s going to be announced.
Besides I’m tired of the shenanigans in Ottawa. I want to see a plan that can be debated.
Harper doesn’t have a clue let alone a plan and it’s getting frustrating especially with rumours of him proroguing the House in June until after their policy convention in October. That would make me hopping mad!
The Dion plan is such a sweet deal for most Canadians, including the embattled middle class, that it needs to be known. It’s almost like a giant tax-cut plan with environmental benefits. -Garth
~ I can’t wait.
So you know all about Dion’s ‘plan’ and you couldn’t scoop everybody by telling us … bet that pained yer journalistic instincts ..LOL
I will be interested in comparing Dion’s ‘new plan’ with his two other ‘plans’ … his 2004 ‘green’ plan and his 2007 ‘carbon budget’ plan. Hopefully a third plan will be an improvement and more comprehensive than the last two ‘plans’ that Dion was unsuccessful at making a priority.
It’s a full 4 years from his first plan as environment minister … and now that you say: “He’s had a team toiling seven days a week on getting it right, and I suppose we’re closer.” … I too hope he is able to get it right because he certainly “didn’t get it done” when he had the opportunity and couldn’t convince Chretien or Martin to make it a priority while GHGs skyrocketed by 32% over our Kyoto commitment.
If Dion deems it necessary to criss-cross Canada this summer to sell his third ‘green plan’ and avoid an election, we should be grateful, but what happens after that???
Will Dion then assess whether Canadians bought his third ‘green plan’ and then decide if he should rejig it again before he throws Canadians into another election .. or is his third ‘green plan’ his final and last hurrah before we have an election late this year or next year ..???
Where is Dion leading us now … Canadians want to know …???!!!!
I’ll ask again: how does this new plan relate to the ‘Carbon Budget’ plan Dion unveiled last year? Does this replace it, or is the previous plan meant to deal more with large emitters?
I know you don’t want to go telling tales out of school (“who, moi?” says Garth), but I don’t think saying whether or not the Carbon Budget is still in play would be giving away too much.
Garth, we have been around the mountain so many times on this building up of anticipation that Dion is going to pull the plug on this government, only to have him chicken out in the end, that it is like the lad who cried out “Fire!” so many times in jest that nobody believed him anymore when there really was a fire.
What is clear is that Dion is a procrastinator, telling us for 1 1/2 years now that he wants this government out, but sitting on his hands every time he could have toppled this regime. I don’t believe him anymore.
On top of this, there is no evidence that Dion is even asking for your advice this time, and even if he did ask for it, there is no evidence that he would listen or take it seriously. He certainly hasn’t taken your advice on election timing on previous occasions.
You have been advocating for an election for many months now, only to fall on deaf ears with the Liberal leader and the party caucus.
Why would you expect a different result this time?
What compells you to even ask the people on this blog for their opinions to whisper in Dion’s ear as if we were being given some access to decision-making, and to the inner echelons of power in the Liberal Party?
I am extremely skeptical about this whole exercise.
Dion has been hesitant, double-minded, ambivalent and vacillating, continually sending out mixed and confusing signals. His actions speak louder than his words. He has built up hopes only to dash them once too often in my books.
With the weaknesses on the front bench of this present government, they should have been brought down over a year ago. But then people look across the floor at the alternative, and are not impressed, making it unlikely that Dion will find a time convenient for him to pull the plug.
We could have toppled this government long ago, and have not had to endure another year of this groaning and complaining, if only there was a leader to lead the way forward, and quit being hesitant and wavering.
“. . . The fact he may not ask me, of course, has totally no bearing on my telling him.”
The less Dion speaks, the louder he is heard by all Cdns., and the larger CRAP’s lies are exposed.
It is pointless in Dion getting himself involved in all this “he said / she said” debatable nonsense — that is what we’re all here for.
“. . . It’s almost like a giant tax-cut plan with environmental benefits.”
At least the Libs. have a plan; CRAP has zilch except, of course, to constantly spend us further into a fiscal hole.
Bring the plan(s) in when the time is right, kick CRAP in the goolies and then wipe them off Earth for good.
My, my, my — the Tribbles and Gremlins at CRAP’s Deathstar are all in a tizzy now; must be a reason for this increased whining, but Honky Tonk Hairy posted once or twice; granted, his mindless wanderings are good for a laugh but nothing more.
Interesting to note that Honky seems to have an insider’s track of what is happening at LPC offices — unless, of course, it is all pure propaganda designed to trick voters.
Anyone can fool some of the people some of the time; no one fools all the people all the time.
This is what CRAP did quite well in the last campaign, and to some extent it worked, but no more.
Now they’ve blown their cover; more and more, people seem them for what they really are, which is a bunch of arrogant SOBs who don’t give a rat’s ass about folk here.
Say, didn’t Honky Hairy use a similar expression a while back?!
Yesterday was the start of the hurrican season south of border…..perhaps the destruction is moving north in more ways than one?
Garth you know that Dion wont call an election. I noticed that by the time we have a federal election the Conservatives will be the longest serving Minority Govenment in history.
Rod
Where is Dion leading us now … Canadians want to know …???!!!!
By Harry S on 06.01.08 11:11 pm
Only Harry “the Terrorist” wants to know, the rest of us are patient enough to wait until the writ is dropped.
Will you be advocating the assasination of Dion again before the writ is dropped…watch your back Harry, the feds may be coming! You know, those RCMP officers that ploice what you called “a ratshit country”! LMAO….Harry you are a joke…have a nice day!
We could have toppled this government long ago, and have not had to endure another year of this groaning and complaining, if only there was a leader to lead the way forward, and quit being hesitant and wavering.
By Keith on 06.01.08 11:34 pm
Well Keith, you always have the option of voting for an independent, or are you going to vote for Stevie “the deceiver”?
STEPHEN HARPER…
HE LIED TO INVESTORS ON INCOME TRUSTS.
(Hurting seniors near or on retirement as they don’t have the time frame to recuperate their losses)
ADMITTED ON TAPE he was aware of a financial offer to Cadman. (looks very much like vote buying)
ADMITTED THE CPC used the “IN & OUT SCHEME”
in their campaign financing.
His chief of staff, most likely under instructions from Harper, tried to INTERFERE in another country’s election process.
NAFTAGATE: (Probably doing a favour for his idol Bushie)
He tried to SMEAR Liberal MP Bains in the House of Commons.
(The character of Stevie exposed, like the smear against Martin as favouring child pornography and Liberals supporting the Taliban)
He ran on having an ACCOUNTABLE GOVERNMENT, then immediately appointed an unaccountable minister.
(Hiding Michael Fortier in the Senate, the same senate he opposed as unelected, then appointed Fortier)
HE SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE DIFFERENT from the dishonest Liberal government, they are the same if not worse.
(too many scandals to get them on one post, Baird, Day etc. etc..)
He MUZZLES HIS MINISTERS and only allows them to talk in public after the content has been cleared with the PMO. Now he wants to muzzle all government offices by having them clear everything with the PMO before releasing information.
Then he has scraped the Co-ordination of Access to Information Requests to deny access to Canadians to millions of pages of once secret documents.
He BROKE HIS WORD on the Atlantic Accord.
He SENDS HIS SMALL MINDED FINANCE MINISTER out to pick a fight with Ontario, the same finance minister that left Ontario with a $5.6 billion deficit and claimed it was balanced.
(Now we will have another problem with small minded Jim, if the
federal finances slip into deficit, will we know?)
And of course, Mr. Flaherty has problems with his untendered contracts….
Meanwhile the CPC is hell bent on TAKING AWAY ONTARIO’S representation based on population.
(Obviously the CPC is not interested in Ontario voters)
Remember that poor MILITARY WIDOW in the Maritimes that Harper promised she would get her pension, did she ever get it?
NOW we have the RCMP VISITING the CPC headquarters with a warrant? What illegal action has taken place?
COULD IT BE DEFRAUDING THE TAXPAYERS?
HIDES BEHIND PARLIAMENTARY PRIVLEDGE TO LIE ABOUT LIBERAL APPOINTMENTS!
Poor Stevie Harper…seems to be a DISHONEST & UNETHICAL leader!
I could see huge political benefits in adopting the Ontario/Quebec cap & trade plan. It would be much easier to sell than a carbon “TAX” & pull in the support of both Ontario & Quebec governments with their huge support base. Think about it. The support of a combined central Canada would almost certainly mean a Liberal majority.
As long as its leader remains, I will never vote for a party that allows C-50 to pass with, as reported, a quiet clause that writes off the $54B that’s been raided from the EI fund.
no excuses.
Garth –You’ve written on this before. Whenever I get one of Harper’s ridiculous junk mail “surveys” I mail it back with a request that he send me a cheque for the $8500. his income trust lies cost me in lost investment value. I also include a request that he fund his junk mail program out of his own pocket and not the taxpayers. I even include my name & address. So far no response & I haven’t received a survey lately. I think he’s getting the message he has no credibility & the program is’nt selling.
Sir David Attenborough: The Truth About Climate Change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0
Gary Lund’s article is so predictable. Dion’s plan has not even been released and these asses are criticizing it.
I think this is actually a good strategy by Dion… let a bit of information out to let the public know its coming… then hold back the details until after the neoCon bobbleheads have done their ranting, and shown themselves to be idiots criticizing something for the sake of criticism and partisanship.
The Liberals may even be able to use turn some of the neoCon criticisms against them when they’re proven false. That will play well as demonstrations, yet again, of neoCon scaremongering. It is becoming more and more obvious that these jerks have no ideas. No real policies. No innovation. That’s why they criticize the Ontario and Quebec governments for showing some leadership with their soon-to-be-announced carbon trading plan.
The biggest disappointment in all of this is Jack Layton. He forced the last election which effectively killed the Kelowna Accord, a national daycare program, and the beginnings of a progressive global warming strategy. Since those were are issues that were supposed to be near and dear to the hearts of the NDP Jack revealed himself to be nothing more than a partisan politician.
The tide is turning against Harper. Let’s make sure that he’s left high and dry by his own devices and egomanical behaviour. Go to the polls when Dion feels its right.
I hope you Cons realize that Global warming is happening real soon..
NASA Climate Report on Global Warming-Gerald Dickens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUtVQ7QbCNU
Could I add my suggestion to your green plan? I would like to see a 3 month probationary period instated in case the plan backfires and doesn’t have the desired effect.
For instance, if you tax energy companies for emittance and they just turn around and pass that tax onto the consumer and carbon levels don’t drop. If it turns out this tax simply benefits the government while doing nothing for the environment I would like to see a clause that would have it cancelled. There’s nothing worse than a government implementing something which doesn’t work and then can’t admit they made a mistake (GST, Gun Registry, etc…).
Seems they all get addicted to the additional cash flow.
Garth, you are a tease!
Two reservations about the plan I have not seen:
1. Robert McLelland had a little blurb on myblagh.com on 19 May with a link to an interview with Fred Krupp that sticks with me:
“Why not a carbon tax?
There’s no example of an air pollution problem anywhere in the world that has been solved without a cap or legal limit on how much of that pollution can be dumped into the sky. A cap gives you that legal limit, where a tax allows people to potentially keep on paying a modest amount and keep on polluting.”
2. Any pollution costs to industry will be passed on to consumers. There may be a commensurate offset in income taxes, but how do you stop the vicious circle from closing: pollute, pass on the costs, keep on polluting.
I have this problem with politicians going through motion and calling it action. There better be legislation with teeth!
I have a question, of sorts. Two companies exist and one emits 1 tonne of carbon annually and the other emits 3 for a total of 4 tonnes per year. The first company would receive a 1-tonne credit which can be sold to the other company. Okay, so far, I understand. But, the bottom line is that 4 tonnes are still being emited into the air. What is the point of the credits if the same amount is still being emited?
Unfortunately, these people are doing the same thing with climate science..
Spin-master comes clean on Iraq
June 02, 2008
John Nichols
The Bush administration employed propaganda techniques, political spin and deception to promote and then justify a war with Iraq that was unwise and unnecessary. And a “too-deferential” national press corps allowed the president and his aides to get away with it. Who makes this devastating, if not entirely new, charge?
The man responsible for spinning the story of the Bush presidency: former White House spokesman Scott McClellan.
In a memoir being published today, What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception, McClellan – the veteran campaign and White House aide to George W. Bush – portrays his former boss and those around him as permanent campaigners who frequently sacrificed the good of the country to achieve dubious political and policy goals.
McClellan is sharply critical of the Bush White House’s handling of definitive domestic policy challenges – particularly Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath.
But nowhere is the former press aide so devastating in his critique of his former boss as on the issue of how the United States was steered into the quagmire that is Iraq. Bush, he writes, is guilty of a “failure to be open and forthright on Iraq and (of) rushing to war with inadequate planning and preparation for its aftermath.”
Accusing the president of engaging in “self-deception” when it came to the facts from the Middle East, McClellan explains that Bush “and his advisers confused the propaganda campaign with the high level of candour and honesty so fundamentally needed to build and then sustain public support during a time of war.”
“[I]n this regard, (Bush) was terribly ill-served by his top advisers, especially those involved directly in national security,” argues McClellan. And he is blistering in his description of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, the president’s former national security adviser, as “too accommodating” and too concerned about protecting her own reputation to challenge strategies that she had to know were ill-advised and dangerous.
And what of the free press that is supposed to serve as a watchdog on executive excess and deceit?
“If anything, the national press corps was probably too deferential to the White House and to the administration in regard to the most important decision facing the nation during my years in Washington, the choice over whether to go to war in Iraq,” the former spokesman writes. “The collapse of the administration’s rationales for war, which became apparent months after our invasion, should never have come as such a surprise. … In this case, the `liberal media’ didn’t live up to its reputation. If it had, the country would have been better served.”
McClellan – Bush’s travelling press secretary during the 2000 campaign and a former deputy press secretary to the president who served as White House spokesman from 2003 until 2006 – is blunt and detailed in discussing administration efforts to destroy the reputation of a critic of the rush to war, former ambassador Joe Wilson (and Wilson’s wife, outed-CIA agent Valerie Plame).
“I had allowed myself to be deceived into unknowingly passing along a falsehood,” he writes of his defences of key players in the scandal, such as White House political czar Karl Rove, and fellow White House advisers Elliot Abrams and Lewis “Scooter” Libby. “It would ultimately prove fatal to my ability to serve the president effectively.”
While Bush, too, may have been deceived, McClellan explains that “the top White House officials who knew the truth – including Rove, Libby and possibly Vice-President Cheney – allowed me, even encouraged me, to repeat a lie.”
That lie and the others related to the war are the bitter legacy McClellan wrestles with in an agonizing account of the White House in which he served. His account will serve as an essential document of the Bush presidency, and of the current campaign to replace it.
ABOVE ALL, however, McClellan’s book is a cautionary tale that reminds us that powerful men and the governments they guide must never be allowed to wage wars of whim.
“History appears poised to confirm what most Americans today have decided: that the decision to invade Iraq was a serious strategic blunder,” he writes. “No one, including me, can know with absolute certainty how the war will be viewed decades from now when we can more fully understand its impact. What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary.”
John Nichols is Washington correspondent for The Nation magazine.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/434485
As long as its leader remains, I will never vote for a party that allows C-50 to pass
By Geiseric the Lame on 06.02.08 7:23 am
C-50 (or it’s equivalent) is bound to pass no matter who is in power. The government can not – and should not – make a commitment to re-imburse the IE fund as some folks advocate. The “Insurance” portion of EI was always a fiction. The money went into general revenues and went a long way towards eliminating the deficit back in the day. Now the rates have come down (not as quickly as they should mind you) and there is a zero percent chance that the “overcharge” will ever be refunded. No Chance… at all.
Gas Prices Around the World
Have a look at how Canada compares to other producing nations.
By Dan on 06.02.08 8:06 am
An excellent suggestion, however, an alternative would be required to prevent the emitters from sabotaging the plan.
Tonight’s vote is about Bill C-50. It’s a bailout-the-rich and import-cheap-labour money Bill. We all know where the
Liberals and the Conservatives stand when it comes to helping the taxpayer. In this case, despite Garth’s coy mistress, dance of smoke and mirrors tease, the Liberals will sit. Again.
Not for my best efforts. — Garth
‘Canadians are smart. They know that the world price of oil and gas is based on supply and demand. With countries like China and India growing very quickly, their demand grows, and so there is a higher price.’
HA-HA Lunn expects us to believe supply and demand, India/China are the only reasons for high gas prices? Guess what Lunn? We’re even smarter than that, what about price gouging and market manipulation, anti-competitive practices, that’s part of the equation as well. And oh yeah re-think NAFTA, we’re being drained!
“When he talks about doing the right thing for the planet and energizing the economy at the same time, Dion goes from passionate to messianic.”
“It’s almost like a giant tax-cut plan with environmental benefits.”
posted by Garth Turner on 06.01.08 @ 9:24 pm
Where was your “messiah” when he was environment minister? Where was he when he actually had the opportunity to do something but didn’t? And now, without knowing “the plan” you herald him as the saviour of the planet. Can you hear yourself, Garth?
In case your forgot, Canada produces about 2% of the world CO2. If we eliminated ALL our man made CO2 production it wouldn’t affect anything globally. So lay off on the messiah stuff. He is far from that.
You have one thing right though, Garth. Canadians do see this as a giant tax. For you to say it won’t affect gasoline prices, you are certainly not being truthful. Any tax to industry will be born by the consumer for all goods and services. It doesn’t matter what “the plan” is, any tax increase affect consumer pricing. I wonder why none of your supporters on this blog talk about that.
Garth,
I am going to treat this like a good stew. All the chopping, and prep has been done…Now it is time to let it simmer. We will see what happens today.
As to a Carbon Tax I still say what must be done are tough and inescapable regulations, and a NEP. Anything else is just more government subsidizing of gluttonous oil and gas companies profiteering on Canadian resources.
Summer is perfect for the election because no one can afford to travel anywhere anyway. Have a fun day mon ami!
“I have a question, of sorts. Two companies exist and one emits 1 tonne of carbon annually and the other emits 3 for a total of 4 tonnes per year. The first company would receive a 1-tonne credit which can be sold to the other company. Okay, so far, I understand. But, the bottom line is that 4 tonnes are still being emited into the air. What is the point of the credits if the same amount is still being emited?”
By forevergreen2000 on 06.02.08 8:15 am
Forevergreen, that is exactly the failure of Kyoto. Buying carbon credits from third world polluters does nothing to reduce GHG emissions. The purpose of Kyoto was to transfer wealth. It is not an environmental plan but a financial aid plan.
Here is how ’some’ in Canadian society believe ethics works. This is his Plan.
Donors owe millions after revenue agency investigates foundation
“I am turning human greed into philanthropic work, and I make no apologies about that. People will buy this, make this donation to Banyan Tree, where they never would have made a donation before, because of the structure that gave them a tax break.”
As for his own remuneration, Thiessen refused to reveal how much he has made off of the Banyan Tree, but said he would be shocked if he made $4 million over the last six years.
During that time, he purchased a home across from the end of Toronto’s exclusive Bridal Path for $2.3 million in 2003, a $2.1 million cottage in 2005 and a $600,000 condo in Burlington at the end of 2007. He leases a 2008 Mercedes and a 2005 Ferrari, which he refused to admit to until presented with documents by the CBC.
This guy doesn’t even blink an eye at fraud. The CRA does and he will.
By Dan on 06.02.08 8:06 am
Could I add my suggestion to your green plan? I would like to see a 3 month probationary period instated in case the plan backfires and doesn’t have the desired effect.
For instance, if you tax energy companies for emittance and they just turn around and pass that tax onto the consumer and carbon levels don’t drop. If it turns out this tax simply benefits the government while doing nothing for the environment I would like to see a clause that would have it cancelled. There’s nothing worse than a government implementing something which doesn’t work and then can’t admit they made a mistake (GST, Gun Registry, etc…).
……………………………………………………………………….
Excellent observation, Dan … and what you point out is the insidious flaw in a carbon tax-income tax shift scheme that Dion has previously thrown out to us. If Canadians and Canadian industry are unable or unwilling to reduce their carbon consumption, that will mean the carbon tax is over-collecting revenue. IOW, the plan is failing and we will not be able to comply with our 2012 Kyoto GHG targets.
Dion ‘green’ plan #3 may sound good taxing the bad and not taxing the good, but is it actually designed to fail??
We know that past Liberal governments intentionally ignored Canada’s skyrocketing GHG emissions and would make achieving our 2012 Kyoto targets near impossible without shutting down sectors of the economy, i.e. Alberta oil sands. We also know that past Liberal governments refused to make Kyoto a ‘priority’ and allowed Canada’s GHGs to increase to 32% above our target. What does this tell us about Liberal governments and Kyoto??
Any Dion Liberal carbon plan that both taxes GHGs and offsets it with income tax reductions must be suspect. Why? Because it is dependent on and contingent to reductions in voluntary carbon consumption. If industry cannot meet their targets, they can be penalized, and if that makes them uncompetitive, they will simply shut down. If individual Canadians prefer to take the tax decrease to offset the carbon tax price increases, that will also defeat Dion’s plan.
In that scenario, what would happen is a Dion Liberal government would simply tell Canadians that we cannot meet our 2012 Kyoto targets and in order to mitigate out high GHG emissions, the government will have to buy Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits with the surplus money collected through the carbon tax. This ‘failure’ scenario will thus accomplish what the Liberals intended all along as they allowed Canada’s GHGs to skyrocket for the 10 years the Chretien-Martin-Dion governments were committing us to Kyoto.
Of course we all know that past Liberal governments intended to purchase Billion$$$ Kyoto Carbon Credits .. and in then Environment Minister Dion’s first ‘green’ plan, he made provision for $5 Billion of carbon credits from China, India, Russia, wherever.
What targets does Dion’s ‘green’ plan intend to achieve? Unless Liberal leader Dion eschews the purchase of Kyoto Carbon Credits, and can guarantee that his ‘green’ plan #3 will be an unmitigated success, I will have grave doubts and suspicions … particularly since past Liberal GHG plans were rejected by Liberal governments.
“We didn’t get it done … we didn’t get it done!!” …. “You know not of what you speak! Do you know how difficult it is to make a priority??!!!”
Dion: “Okay here is the good news ……… and now here is the bad news … but it’s only bad news if you don’t reduce your carbon footprint so we can comply with Kyoto by 2012 (and then we will have to buy Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits with the surplus money I have collected through the carbon tax) …….. will you vote for that please and make me your next prime minister …???!!!!”
The money was DISPERSED through sinking funds but the EI account, albiet abused, is anything BUT fiction.
Its not about paying it back. Getting stiffed goes with having a job. Its about the pragmatic outcome of feeding the memory hole. Dropping the marker now only serves to distort efficiencies later.
As far as I’m concerned, the price of travelling, vacationing, hopping in the car and tripping to cottage country is making it impossible to do anything this summer but stay home. I would guess its the same fo most Canadians.
So why not have a summer election? It might prove to be the only entertainment our cash strapped nation can afford.
The Conservatives, or any party should do a poll and ask if anyone notices how much we are saving on gas while we fill our tanks. I am sure because the GST is taxed on top of the inflated price of a litre of gas, that the government is not losing out. The GST tax on tax makes me want to light my hair on fire, but at over $1.30 per litre, I would be wise to wait for a less expensive accelerant.
Dropping the EI surplus loans to consolidated from Accounts Recievable sets up the fund’s insolvency as the next generation’s Court Challenges Programs.
Don’t let one hand wash the other. C-50 cannot be passed in good conscience.
Garth
Ah yes, the intellectual giant Gary Lunn explaining supply and demand. His riding constituents has been frustrated with his election since 1997 because of the split vote between affluent Sidney and the Gulf islands. Gary loves talking about nukie plants as the clean energy strategy for Canada.
“As the world’s largest producer of uranium and a country taking steps to tackle climate change through the development of clean energy technology, Canada’s responsibility is to help shape the safe and secure development of nuclear energy worldwide.” GL
Honestly, this man is so dumb he insists that nuclear power plants are pollution free. Of course he never talks about nuclear spent fuel and it’s storage.
Now that Max is gone, I would say Gary is the dumbest guy in cabinet.
Canadians take anything this man says with a grain of salt.
Garth are you alleging Ministers are being forced to sign and publish documents that are knowningly false. Garth this is a serious charge you are making and perhaps should be brought to the attention of parliment. A fine establish member as yourself would have the credibilty to do such.
Garth please address these allegations immediately in today’s question period and inform us here also what you intend to do about this matter. Garth as concerned citizens of this country we demand you take action. LOL (typed tongue in cheek)
So Garth, is the housing collapse over or is this what you meant in your doomsday tirades.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080602/housing_quarter_080602/20080602?hub=Canada
Past numbers are not an indication of future conditions. Prediction stands. — Garth
Gary Lunn, Ottawa
Minister of Natural Resources
Complete and utter RUBBISH.
Now he thinks he’s the Finance Minister and that’s not saying much.
Greetings Garth and readers.
Time for Canadians to get some answers.
The Swiss have questions.
http://morris108.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/largest-swiss-newspaper-blick-asks-if-bush-was-behind-911/
The Australians too.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2240510.htm
Garth..phoney poll out to day from Ipsos trying to scare Stephane from bringing these jerks down…do not believe anyof their numbers…they have the liberal second in quebec and crop has them fourth.
Dion ‘green’ plan #3 may sound good taxing the bad and not taxing the good, but is it actually designed to fail??
By Harry S on 06.02.08 9:15 am
Do gov’ts intentionally design policy to fail? Of course not but while they do not intend to cause a policy to fail anymore than drunk drivers intend to crash, they are nonetheless responsible for the decisions that lead to the failure.
We’ll have plenty of time to take away the keys from the driver if we think he’s had too much to drink.
So in the meantime, Harry, put the horse back in front of the cart and cover up your crystal ball.
I have this problem with politicians going through motion and calling it action. There better be legislation with teeth!
By Herb on 06.02.08 8:09 am
Herb – do you mean that our fed govt. will actually force polluters to pay the fines. And what, pray tell, would those fines be. From what I’ve seen, legislation does little if the will is not there to enforce these laws, due to lack of manpower, etc. It’s a farce to fine a major, national or international, co. $150K. That’s peanuts to them. – equivalent to a slap on the wrist.
“Who gives a shit anymore Garth. You and your fellow Liberals lost all support when you continually sat on your behinds vote after vote that screwed Canadians. If Liberals really cared more about Canadians than protecting their own jobs then that wouldn’t have happened. You would have voted with integrity rather than cower fearing an election you felt you couldn’t win. You’ve asked this question before and nothing happened. Maybe you better remove Dion’s earplugs before you whisper!
Nobody cowered, and the actions were certainly not taken to protect jobs. Instead, there was no point giving in to Harper’s tactics to force an election at a time of his choosing, not ours. Sure am glad you’re not a strategist. — Garth
By dj on 06.01.08 1:06 pm”
So standing up and voting against Harper screwing Canadians is not as important as when the strategists tell you it is time for an election. I’m with you on this one Garth…I sure am glad I am not one of those strategists!
By Son of Harry S on 06.02.08 10:14 am
Oh GAWD! Harry is breeding! LMAO!
14 out of 40 comments posted on this thread have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic you posted, Garth ….!!!!
Why do you bother posting what these eccentric nutbars are promoting in their neuro-psycho-whacko addled state of mind …????
I have a question, of sorts. Two companies exist and one emits 1 tonne of carbon annually and the other emits 3 for a total of 4 tonnes per year. The first company would receive a 1-tonne credit which can be sold to the other company. Okay, so far, I understand. But, the bottom line is that 4 tonnes are still being emited into the air. What is the point of the credits if the same amount is still being emited?
By forevergreen2000 on 06.02.08 8:15 am
Foreevergreen – I’m not nearly as knowledage about the options to reduce our GHG, but I must say your explanation seems reasonable to me.
I know that I have to become more aware of all of the various ‘options’ being bantyed (sp? about &, no doubt, we will inundated with all the spin before the next election.
I do know, however, that Harper’s plan to allow the Tar Sands emmisions to increase with development is a farce. When the Liberal plan is fully presented I shall do a lot of research. I’m not judging it until I know the details.
But, meanwhile Baird attacking Ont. & P.Q. for at least trying to address a problem.
Carbon tax runs on empty
Dion’s plan for painless greenhouse gas strategy disappoints
Tom Ford – Winnipeg Free Press – June 2, 2008
There are days when I don’t understand federal Liberal leader Stephane Dion.
I’m not talking about the way he talks. He mangles the English language a bit, but that doesn’t bother me. For decades, francophones have had to listen to anglos butcher their language. I figure it’s payback time.
No, it’s just that I don’t understand his logic when it comes to a new carbon tax.
Dion hasn’t given us many details on the new tax. But he has allowed that he doesn’t want to increase taxes on gasoline. Instead, he would increase tariffs on other fossil fuels to bring them closer to the existing ten cents a litre excise tax on gas. That could affect the prices of natural gas, heating oil and coal-generated electricity.
In addition, his proposal would be revenue neutral: Money raised by the energy tax would be used to cut personal and business taxes.
But what’s the point of this process? The government is taking money out of one of our pockets and putting it back in another. This flimflam means the proposal will: not be a disincentive to run around in gas-guzzling cars or set our thermostats higher; not produce any funds for the development of more environmentally friendly technology or processes; and not meet the environmentalists’ dream that we pay the “full costs” of energy, including the costs it imposes on society.
In short, Dion’s proposal doesn’t do the things environmentalists say need to be done.
Dion and Elizabeth May, the leader of the Green Party, both say the proposal will produce a “green shift” in taxation to energy use and away from savings and investments.
I doubt that. I think most people will simply use the income tax savings to pay for the increased price of energy — particularly in cities such as Winnipeg that have been fumbling around with rapid transit.
And you have to remember that any scheme to collect and to pay back money will be complex — and cost the taxpayers a bundle in administration.
Fiddling around with the price of energy is all part of the new politics: Make changes that you trumpet as important, but make them so no one is inconvenienced or feels any pain. It’s interesting that Dion’s proposal doesn’t affect cars, a family’s biggest polluter and producer of greenhouse gases.
Dion’s approach to energy taxes is disappointing because the problem of climate change is real and urgent. “Time is key,” May told the Winnipeg Canadian Club, “and we are squandering it.”
After it reaches an increase of three degrees centigrade, global warming takes off and temperature increases come even more quickly. We can avoid this if greenhouse gas production starts dropping by 2015, May says.
There’s another reason experimenting with energy taxes may not be a good solution to the problem: Timing.
Fuel prices, as almost everyone knows, are sky high. Slapping a tax on them is going to increase the chances of a wallet-draining inflationary spiral even more. Fuel prices have an immense ripple effect because they are a factor in everything from transportation to manufacturing and food supply.
http://tinyurl.com/3qtynz
Jack, who be not so nimble or so quick, may be getting suckered….again.
BY PAUL FIST IN YOUR FACE ON 06.01.08 10:42 PM
Suckered, or another secret deal?
You have one thing right though, Garth. Canadians do see this as a giant tax. For you to say it won’t affect gasoline prices, you are certainly not being truthful. Any tax to industry will be born by the consumer for all goods and services. It doesn’t matter what “the plan” is, any tax increase affect consumer pricing. I wonder why none of your supporters on this blog talk about that.
By Janice on 06.02.08 8:51 am
Oh,just a guess .’cause it’s bullshit !
“it’s Harponomics which has cost us so many manufacturing jobs, goosed the dollar, cut the wrong tax, hollowed out the surplus..”
You mean the maufacturing jobs in companies that were losing money WAY before Harper was PM, the goosed dollar which has become quite stable lately, the “wrong tax” cut that you campaigned for, and the “hollowed out” surplus that has paid off $37 billion of the debt and counting.
Your rhetoric is the most hollow thing in Ottawa these days Mr. Turner.
John Nichols is Washington correspondent for The Nation magazine.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/434485
By Geoffrey L. on 06.02.08 8:18 am
Geoffrey – I had just retired when I watched the towers go down. We were all in shock, but DH & I were not surprised, and said so to a few family members. Look at American foreign policy this last century. I have 2 bros & a BIL who served in the military. One bro was really upset with our opinions. We said, early on, that the illegal war & occup. of Iraq was all about oil – not WMDs. It has been said that junior wanted to revenge for those guys trying to take out his father. Actually, from from I’ve read, junior has been trying to prove to his dad that he’s better than him. Anyway, I don’t think that Bush jr. had enough smarts to figure it all out. He’s been guided by Rove, Pearl, Rummy, et al, including our neocon David Frum, whose probably on Stevie’s payroll too. They also say that Stevie is brilliant, intelligent, a genius, etc. I don’t agree. He’s cunning, I’ll give him that, but of he was so smart (& we know that everything gets vetted thru the PMO), why hasn’t he changed his tactics since his ratings have remained the same as when he got elected. Smart people learn from their mistakes!!
But, personally, I believe if he changes his tactics and becomes more open before the next election, that voters will see thru his tactics. As they say, a lepoard doesn’t change its spots. He’ll just be following Flanagan’s strategies.
“Canadians do see this as a giant tax.”
Do parents who hate children name their kids “Janice” on purpose?
As far as I’m concerned, the price of travelling, vacationing, hopping in the car and tripping to cottage country is making it impossible to do anything this summer but stay home. I would guess its the same fo most Canadians.
Please do this experiment for fun. Go to AirCanada.com or WestJet.ca and price a flight from Calgary to Montreal during Xmas 2008. Ouch! 1100$ round-trip. Ok, must be the price of fuel no?
Well, lets see. Go to Travelocity.COM and price a flight from Seattle to Syracuse during the same XMAS period. Chances are you will get something between 5-600$, 50% LESS than our CANADIAN TAX PAYER FOUNDED airlines.
Ouch, it’s expensive to be a Canadian.
Carbon tax runs on empty
Dion’s plan for painless greenhouse gas strategy disappoints
Tom Ford – Winnipeg Free Press – June 2, 2008
By Harry S on 06.02.08 11:39 am
Oh this is choice!!!
Ha!! You’re taking enviromental and economical advise from a reporter?
Does he give out stock tips?
Forevergreen: The company that is forced to buy credits will keep being incrementally penalized each year that he does not reduce his GHG’s. The company will have to go green to avoid huge fines.
It appears there are persons on this board who would like it to be run like a formal debate with a topic du jour and rules of etiquette governing participation.
On the other hand there are those who see it as an opportunity to engage in discussion of a range of issues not necessarily on topic, but of interest, as has been previously indicated, to a number of the members.
And some even feel the need to vent every now and then because of what they view as being blatant obdurance, or maybe asininity even, in the conduct of said discussions.
That being said, democracy is not a gentleman’s club; most of us are not to the manner born. But it serves us well enough and given that we are generally all grown ups here, we can tolerate a bit of over the top, understanding the passions politics generate.
That being said, let me offer this link I came across earlier today:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174938/kill_them_we_are_going_to_wipe_them_out_
I suggest you google image Steven Harper after and check him out in his military and cowboy gear.
Regards, all.
Got a good laugh when Baird called the Dalton/Charest plan smoke and mirrors.
The Cons are the Kings of Illusion.
intensity targets, reductions based on 2006 rather than 1990, $100.a month and calling it Child Care, failing Seniors with inadequate OAS and GIS, $500. a month credit for kids who play hockey and nothing for parents who actually go biking with their kids getting lots more exercise than the 15 minutes a kids gets to play on the arena ice,
cancelling Court Challenges fund and saying it is good for Canadians,
This government are sleight of hand artists.
By Ron p on 06.02.08 12:16 pm
Carbon tax runs on empty
Dion’s plan for painless greenhouse gas strategy disappoints
Tom Ford – Winnipeg Free Press – June 2, 2008
By Harry S on 06.02.08 11:39 am
……
Oh this is choice!!!
Ha!! You’re taking enviromental and economical advise from a reporter?
Does he give out stock tips?
…………………………………
Tom Ford is managing editor of The Issues Network .. and a highly regarded journalist like Garth.
Our MP Garth Turner was educated at the University of Toronto Schools. He earned a Bachelor of Arts in English literature from the University of Toronto, and a Master of Arts in English literature from the University of Western Ontario.
Before entering a career in politics, Turner was business editor of the Toronto Sun.
So you see, both Garth and Tom were journalists of high repute … and you believe everything our MP Garth tells you … and btw, Garth did give stock tips to his readers, many years ago ..!!!
Now wasn’t that easy ….LOLOL
LANA, thanks for that, they are firmly on my list and I will keep up the habit of checking a blogger’s name before reading. [My husband speculates that "K...." may be a family member or something of "L.......'s"]
I’m so impressed with the post by Brain on May 24 exposing the fake Canadian government link used by C. B. Innes.
We all benefit by knowing who to ignore. [How do they get to keep a faked government website up?]
Trolls destroy Canadian’s freedom. Just like any vandalism, innocent people are harmed. Trolls unwittingly support what appears to be another fascist government like Bush’s.
(As for “L…….” to call himself a neocon, well, say no more, they are at best nut bars.)
Anyway, many thanks again, Lana.
Oh this is choice!!!
Ha!! You’re taking enviromental and economical advise from a reporter?
Does he give out stock tips?
By Ron p on 06.02.08 12:16 pm
………………………………..
Also … you’re taking environmental and economic advice from a sociology professor …!!!!!!!!
I think someone should do a quick dissection of the Lunn Letter if they have the time.
We can email the dissection to friends and family, per Esther’s FRAN suggestion.
With a quick analysis, point by point of Lunn Letter Lies, at least our loved ones will be able to help keep the truth
Your rhetoric is the most hollow thing in Ottawa these days Mr. Turner.
By Tony on 06.02.08 11:53 am
Yea, almost as hollow as your head.Idiot.
Historic Ontario-Quebec meeting to sign carbon cap-and-trade deal
But federal Environment Minister John Baird, appearing on CTV’s question period on Sunday, said he doesn’t like the idea.
“I think it’s more about talk and political posturing than it is about cutting greenhouse gas emissions,” he said.
He doesn’t like it? As if that means anything. Two-thirds of the Canadian population are about to become environmentally responsible and Baird would rather bury his head in the oil sands.
…The money went into general revenues and went a long way towards eliminating the deficit back in the day. Now the rates have come down (not as quickly as they should mind you) and there is a zero percent chance that the “overcharge” will ever be refunded. No Chance… at all.
By Lawrence on 06.02.08 8:24 am
Agree Lawrence – it never is refunded no matter what govt. is in power.
What truly upsets me is that my sis in PQ worked for an international shipping co who cut back on staff many years ago. They had 1 yr left to pay off their mtg. Her DH had not a bad job. She was offerered a transfer to Atlanta but didn’t really want to go there. Her DH finally convinced her to take a ‘company paid’ visit to see the landscape. She still was unconvinced but, he was really gung ho, thought he’d have all kinds of opportunities. She was under lots of pressure. Long story short, they stayed almost 5 yrs. She hated her job, he ended up as a recruiter for big 3 car dealers working mostly in Windsor. Moved back about 1 block from where they used to, but with an expensive mtg., put them back about 15 yrs financially, and she had to take a lower level job working for someone she detested. Her boss didn’t even know how to open and respond to an email, took 2 hrs lunches, left at 3, etc. while she had was left to deal with clients. Her DH ended up working for a co he hated – travelled 4 out of 5 days throught Eastern Cda and US. She finally could not take it any longer (almost 2 yrs ago) & quit. Her DH has gone AWOL after his Mom was diagnosed with cancer at 86. (BTW, a more wonderful woman U could not meet.) He spent just about every day at the hospital. He just abandonded his job. My sis was on the verge of a nervous breakdown & just threw in the towel one day.
GUESS WHAT, after paying into EI for 30+ yrs, & having never collected 1 cent, she can’t collect 1 dollar. I checked the PQ website re EI. They mentioned 4 reasons why you’d be able to collect EI. BTW, I collected 1 EI cheque in my life before I got a job when I moved here.
There’s obviously something wrong with our system. It totally needs to be changed.
Consumer confidence lowest in seven years:
A monthly survey conducted by the board shows its confidence index fell seven points in May to 85.8.
The figure marks the lowest level the index has been at since the survey switched to a monthly basis in December 2001.
In 2002, the index was fixed at 100 but for most of 2007 it settled slightly below 100.
By late 2007, the index started to fall, dropping off sharply in the last two months.
In May 2008, a decline in consumer confidence was recorded in every region across Canada. Central and Eastern Canada showed the biggest drops.
Consumers showed the largest declines in confidence in relation to future income conditions and about making major purchases.
“Tories appear set to survive confidence vote.” – Globe and Mail
I guess being behind the NDP in Quebec kind of wipes away some of the foam around Liberal mouths these days.
As you were, Libbies. Back in your chairs.
Two-thirds of the Canadian population are about to become environmentally responsible and Baird would rather bury his head in the oil sands
BY RON P ON 06.02.08 12:48 PM
Good one
Also … you’re taking environmental and economic advice from a sociology professor …!!!!!!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 12:34 pm
Canada is getting financial advice from a failed economist,who was taught outdated economic theory, and an ambulance chasing ,shyster gnome .
By Ron p on 06.02.08 12:48 pm
Historic Ontario-Quebec meeting to sign carbon cap-and-trade deal.
..snip….
Two-thirds of the Canadian population are about to become environmentally responsible and Baird would rather bury his head in the oil sands.
……………………………….
Liberals like to make big noises about signing agreements that are meaningless to them .. like Kelowna .. like Kyoto … and now this Ontario-Quebec “agreement” between Liberal premiers … all do-nothing posturing events .. particularly Kyoto.
Ah … but you prefer not to take advice from journalists (like Garth) and perhaps sociology professors (like Dion) … but you swallow whatever is signed by Liberal politicians …LOL
Coming on to this blog is like coming to a different planet.
The anti-government rhetoric is out of sync, out of sync,
With how the mainstream Canadians voters think, how they think.
This blog has become a lightning rod for malcontents, rabblerousers, hotheads, and bitter people who rely more on emotion and name-calling that has nothing to do with intelligent debate.
It is a world of unreality, make-believe, and imagination where hatred overrides objectivity and the ability to be reasoned with.
Is that why you feel compelled to come and change your handle with such frequency, Darrell? — Garth
LANA, thanks for that, they are firmly on my list and I will keep up the habit of checking a blogger’s name before reading. [My husband speculates that "K...." may be a family member or something of "L.......'s"]
I’m so impressed with the post by Brain on May 24 exposing the fake Canadian government link used by C. B. Innes.
We all benefit by knowing who to ignore. [How do they get to keep a faked government website up?]
Trolls destroy Canadian’s freedom. Just like any vandalism, innocent people are harmed. Trolls unwittingly support what appears to be another fascist government like Bush’s.
(As for “L…….” to call himself a neocon, well, say no more, they are at best nut bars.)
Anyway, many thanks again, Lana.
By barb the proof-reader
on 06.02.08 12:34 pm
Barb – I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to Garth’s blog this weekend. Can you post a quote about the fake Canadian link that CB Innes supposedly posted. The reason I ask is that, while I may not always agree with what CBI posts, I believe she is non-partisan and I consider her to be a perceptive observer of politics.
Now wasn’t that easy ….LOLOL
By Harry S on 06.02.08 12:32 pm
So what’s Tom Ford’s education again?
How many environmentalists does he have on his team?
Just asking as it seems you forgot to mention why your man Tom is held in just high regard.
ps: They both have beards, is that relevant?
“the rest of us are patient enough to wait until the writ is dropped” ~ by WJP
I agree WJP. Anyone who makes comments like Hairy does, altho interesting sometimes, is not speaking for real people.
Real people understand timing.
Also … you’re taking environmental and economic advice from a sociology professor …!!!!!!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 12:34 pm
Haven’t seen his plan yet so don’t assume I’m taking any advice from it.
His plan still has to be judged but it appears you’ve already made up your intolerant mind to snuff it.
Baird will be very pleased that you do as you’re told.
No worries, perhaps some day you will know what it feels like to own your own opinions.
This blog has become a lightning rod for malcontents, rabblerousers, hotheads, and bitter people who rely more on emotion and name-calling that has nothing to do with intelligent debate.
By Keith on 06.02.08 1:04 pm
AND WE LIKE IT THAT WAY, Keith, err, Darrell or is this the other brother Daryl.
Nobody cowered, and the actions were certainly not taken to protect jobs. Instead, there was no point giving in to Harper’s tactics to force an election at a time of his choosing, not ours. Sure am glad you’re not a strategist. — Garth
Garth, you asked your constituents what you should do regarding the non confidence motions. They overwhelmingly told to to vote against the government. Now you are telling us that you are going to tow the party line. That you are following the liberal strategists and not the people that sent you to Ottawa.
After laying into Harper and his vision for an MP, how he sees the MP as serving the party and not the constituent, when are you going to take a stand against what you condemn others for? When are you going to vote the wishes of your constituents?
If you never campaigned to cut the GST, you would be credible in condemning it. If you never blasted Stronach, Brison, Emerson for floor crossing, you could justify your own change of parties. If you don’t criticize the tories for whipping MPs, you would have grounds now for obeying the liberal leader when every bill brought to the house you fail to vote against it.
At some point you are going to have to do more than talk. At some point you are going to have to do what you say you believe in. Up until now all we have seen of you is a party first whipped MP.
People will only act according to what they believe. Your beliefs and your actions are not reconcilable.
My goal in joining the Liberals was to facilitate and hasten the downfall of Stephen Harper. I will not waver from that, since such an event would irrefutably be in the best interests of my country. — Garth
By Ron p on 06.02.08 1:07 pm
So what’s Tom Ford’s education again?
How many environmentalists does he have on his team?
Just asking as it seems you forgot to mention why your man Tom is held in just high regard.
………………………………..
Tom Ford is a lot more educated than a dimbulb like you RonnyP … and it’s so easy to gobsmack a moron like you particularly when you put your feet into your mouth so often and revealing your abject lack of knowledge on environmental (or as you spell it: ‘enviromental’) and economic issues ..LOL
Perhaps you should study what our MP Garth reports on as well as what others like Tom Ford are revealing about sociology professor’s Dion’s sham ‘green’ plan …!!!!
Is that why you feel compelled to come and change your handle with such frequency, Darrell? — Garth
By Keith on 06.02.08 1:04 pm
Another masquerading con-bot troll busted by the man .
Take off ‘ya loser .
KPN: Barb – I wasn’t paying a lot of attention to Garth’s blog this weekend. Can you post a quote about the fake Canadian link that CB Innes supposedly posted.
I’m not sure what all Brain said but checking the article reveals that Barb (and possibly “Brain”) are just confused. CB posted a background research article http://tinyurl.com/6jhvcf while “Brain” posted the Act itself http://tinyurl.com/27sqav
In an amazing leap of illogic at least one person came up with the brainstorm that CB had posted a link to a fraudulent site. Incredible? Yes.
It seems that Barb gets confused a lot and every time she gets confused she dstarts calling people “liars.” It’s a charming little trait, isn’t it?
I don’t know how much or how little of this stupidity “Brain” believes, he’s been strangely silent about Barb’s overzealous fandom. Almost like he’s a little embarrassed about it.
BY KPN ON 06.02.08 1:04 PM
Hi KPN,
Brain’s fabulous post can be found on the calendar at May 24, although the time date runs over to the next day. Hope this helps.
It’s at:
BY BRAIN ON 05.25.08 6:44 PM
But KPN, Hubby and I just noticed two other ver-ry interesting things, so I’ll post that next.
There’s obviously something wrong with our system. It totally needs to be changed.
In fairness, the Liberals did start to cut EI rates (slowly) as the deficit was eliminated and the Conservatives have continued that trend. The problem that the Lame fellow has with the current bill is that it would rule out any future repayment of that EI “surplus” which exists only on paper.
I agree that it was an unjust and horribly regressive tax to place on working people – I said so loudly and often at the time – but the worst of it is over now.
Also … you’re taking environmental and economic advice from a sociology professor …!!!!!!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 12:34 pm
LOL. at least Dion has a comprehension of people and society. Harper appoints a know nothing like Baird who has a BA from Queen’s University in Political Science. Wow, I am sooooo impressed with Baird’s credentials. Just like Harper’s (a non practicing, totally unproven ‘economist’ who has never worked in the real world. Likewise with trest of Harper’s PMO. Flaherty, the ambulance chasing lawyer knows Jack Squat about finances or management which he more than proved here in Ontario.
John Baird’s CV
Garth,
re: BY KEITH ON 06.02.08 1:04 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH GARTH!
Glad to find out that KEITH and DARRELL are the same person!
I’ll post my other observation in a moment
KPN, you can find what you’re looking for here
Breaking news from The Canadian Press… very interesting quote from Emilie Moorhouse of the Sierra Club that the Harper Conservatives are being ‘left in the dust’ by the provinces. This latest example of REAL leadership by the provinces on this issue must really have the little dictator pissed. My oh my how he hates to be upstaged! LMAO!!!!!
McGuinty, Charest sign deal to cut greenhouse gases
The premiers of Ontario and Quebec have signed an agreement to cut greenhouse gases in their provinces — a move that has angered the federal government.
The Quebec-Ontario deal, according to the Canadian Press, will involve a basic framework for an interprovincial cap-and-trade system — with a 1990 baseline for emission levels.
The system aims to limit industrial emissions by allowing companies to sell unused carbon credits to companies that exceed their cap.
It will also opt for “real reductions,” as opposed to the federal government’s “intensity-based” plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Ontario’s Dalton McGuinty and Quebec’s Jean Charest said Monday that the deal was made because the federal government’s proposals to control gas emissions disappoint Canadians.
“One of the reasons we got together is that we think we can go further, faster,” McGuinty told Canada AM Monday. “The feds have failed to put forward a plan in keeping with the ambitions and aspirations of Canadians.”
Charest told Canada AM that the two provinces are pushing forward with a carbon cap-and-trade system because that’s the way most of the world is going.
Charest noted that Quebec and Ontario use the 1990 carbon benchmark acknowledged by most of the world, whereas the federal government uses a 2006 benchmark.
Emilie Moorhouse, executive director of the Sierra Club, said the federal government is being “left in the dust.”
“I think the collaboration that we’re seeing between the provinces effectively renders the Harper government’s approach to climate change obsolete,” Moorhouse told CTV Newsnet.
“The Harper government is planning to adopt intensity-based targets which would essentially allow an overall increase in greenhouse gases.”
Ontario and Quebec’s cabinets held a joint meeting on the issue in Quebec City Monday.
Federal position
The Tories say their plan will reduce emissions 20 per cent below 2006 levels by 2020. Environmentalists have overwhelmingly criticized the plan.
“It’s completely inadequate and essentially no one around the world is adopting that approach because of its inadequacies,” said Moorhouse.
On CTV’s Question Period Sunday, federal Environment Minister John Baird said the province’s plans undermine national efforts to force polluters to cut emissions.
“It will be the first time anywhere in the world people have talked about a trading regime where there are no regulations in place forcing the big polluters to cut their emissions,” he said.
“The reality is that the federal numbers will be demonstrably higher than anything that Ontario or Quebec come up with.”
With files from The Canadian Press
By Ron p on 06.02.08 1:27 pm
Haven’t seen his(Dion) plan yet so don’t assume I’m taking any advice from it.
His(Dion) plan still has to be judged but it appears you’ve already made up your intolerant mind to snuff it.
…………………………………
Not me, you moron … Tom Ford in the Winnipeg Free Press is judging what Dion and others have already revealed about his coming ‘green’ plan #3 … as has our MP Garth on this weblog, namely:
“As you’ve guessed by now, that’s why he[Dion] is determined to unveil a tax-shifting policy which will put a price on carbon, and offset it with big new tax breaks. Trust me, they will be significant. If you actually don’t give a whiz about the environment, then you’ll still like this plan for the savings it can produce. The only action you might need to take is to change some spending habits.”
… and …
“Most people now have an idea where this guy[Dion] is going, although the specific details will not be released until he gives the green light. But Dion has signalled that, as prime minister, he’d put a price on carbon, then use the money collected from emitters and polluters to lower personal and corporate taxes. The idea is to tax stuff we don’t want, and cut taxes on things we do.”
……………………………..
So RonnyP … you should address you criticisms to what Tom Ford said of Dion’s remarks … and try not to attack the messenger, suggesting he is an incompetent reporter and only a journalist like our MP Garth who tells us: “Most people now have an idea where this guy[Dion] is going …” … but I guess you are not “Most people..” .. only somebody who is ill-informed and cannot spell “environment” ….LOL
Where is Dion leading us now … Canadians want to know …???!!!!
By Harry S on 06.01.08 11:11 pm
The Liberal Party of Canada
Our Vision
The Liberal Party’s three pillar approach sets a clear path to ensuring Canada’s bright and prosperous future. By weaving together economic prosperity, social justice and environmental sustainability, together we can build a better Canada.
In Summary
Liberals believe in a Canada that is the envy of the world. A country where economic prosperity goes hand in hand with social development and where a healthy sustainable environment is driven by leading edge research and innovation.
Investing in a Stronger Canada
A truly innovative economy is one driven by ideas, invention and technologies, one which leads the way in how it produces goods and delivers them to global markets.
A Healthy Environment
The world is now facing a global environmental threat worse than any we have previously seen. Canadians know that climate change is real; they are witnessing first hand more violent storms, longer heat waves and increasing droughts.
Social Justice for All
Giving families a helping hand, at all stages of life, is an important part of creating a society of which we can all be proud.
Strengthening Our Communities
Canada’s cities are at the centre of our country’s success; driving economic growth, employment and innovation. As our population grows and changes, our cities are facing increasing challenges in dealing with the growing burden placed on municipalities.
Timely and Quality Healthcare
Our national health care system is a legacy that Liberals will never abandon. We will ensure that our health care system will continue to be there when Canadians need it, no matter where they live, and no matter what their income.
Respecting Our Farmers
Our hard-working farmers deserve the unqualified respect and gratitude of their fellow Canadians. Their contribution to the fabric of our nation does not receive the recognition it should.
A Brighter Future for Aboriginal Canadians
The rich cultures of Canada’s First Nations, Inuit and Métis people form the foundation of our great country. Aboriginal Canadians represent the largest segment of our young people and the fastest growing segment of our population.
A More Representative Parliament
Women and girls in Canada today enjoy a level of equality and freedom that eluded their mothers and grandmothers. But despite the tremendous progress we have made, Canada’s Parliament still has unacceptably few women.
Canada Will Not Fail the World
Canadians can be proud of our nation’s history of service to the world. Whether it is through international aid, peacekeeping, trade or security, the Liberal team is committed to ensuring Canada’s continued international role of pride and influence.
Harry S., you continue to amaze me with your stupidity. The details of Dion’s plan have not been made public, so any criticism from neoCon journalists are just symptoms of Harper trying to control messaging through some of his media cronies.
Let’s wait to see the plan, in detail. And, let’s wait to see what the experts on climate change have to say about it.
I’m sure Harper was pissed today when he learned that the provincial governments in Quebec and Ontario have upstaged him with their agreement on carbon cap and trade! The provinces are also using 1990 emission standards like the rest of the world, NOT THE BOGUS 2006 numbers that Herr Harpo is using.
All of this dramatically points out how out-of-sync Harper is with reality, and how LITTLE REAL leadership he has shown on the climate change issue (amoung many others).
As time passes he gets left further and further behind…. looks good on the little egomaniac!
Hairy’s wizard hat collection .
http://tinyurl.com/4a67sd
Tom Ford is a lot more educated than a dimbulb like you RonnyP
By Harry S on 06.02.08 1:36 pm
What is so wrong with you that you can’t answer a simple question?
I can’t find any info on your buddy Tom, and if you’re going to compare him to Garth, then I’d like to judge that for myself.
If you can’t tolerate the fact that I’m calling you out then get used to it, I’m not going away.
BTW, an individual who uses words like ratsh*t more than likely got an education from the hole in the outhouse.
As a young boy , you should have listened to your parents when they asked you to run away. At least you would have received a street education.
Sorry KPN for taking so long..
KPN and MEN WITH HATS,
Look back – at yesterday’s blog – and read the end comments – several…
(at “Is This The Time?”)
..like the one BY LAWRENCE ON 06.02.08 7:22 AM
LANA and I noticed that LAWRENCE twists what people say
HERB noticed the same thing: RE: Keith
Herb says about Keith on that last blog titled “Is This The Time?”
“Go over the year or so of his sporadic comments and see.. he merely has negated or twisted what others have said, with insults thrown in for effect”
BY HERB ON 06.02.08 8:51 AM
KPN,
C. B. also smeared me yesterday with the comment BY C. B. INNES ON 06.01.08 7:31 PM trying to IMPLY falsely that I said anything about it being “acceptable for Liberal supporters to do the same thing” regarding their bigotry. So C. B. Innes clearly lied, and I’ll repeat C. B.’s quote at the end of this.
Also those last few comments from Garth’s last blog, in which Keith and Lawrence spend some time with each other, one calling the other “man of honesty and sincerity”
And they continue to smear liberals as bigots. They are attempting to smear this blog. Period.
And as LANA said,
“Barb, ignore Lawrence…he is doing this to change the conversation on this blog”
BY LANA ON 06.02.08 7:46 AM
And I’ve noticed others have put words down that I didn’t say, in their comments,
BY C. B. INNES ON 06.01.08 7:31 PM
BY C. B. INNES ON 06.02.08 6:17 AM
How does everyone else feel about this gang of thugs smearing legitimate people here by twisting their words?
After LAWRENCE tried to smear this blog about “the stench of bigotry here” then C. B. comes to his rescue and smears me, by falsely implying that I had said, suggesting “that because Harry paints a large offensive brush, it makes it acceptable for Liberal supporters to do the same thing?”
KPN,
Since you’d asked, I said no such thing. So C. B. is in on this game of theirs as well. Period.
I think they play the game of snake in the grass, coming across neutral sometimes, so their lying attacks and smears will somehow be swallowed by others.
I think Linda and Herb will understand, as I think they too have been targeted at times.
TO BONNIE L
The Liberal Vision??
This is all apple pie stuff. No specifics and nothing distinctive. NDP -Conservative would both support what you wrote.
Is this just your material or is this actual Liberal Party material?
It is not tax revenue, it is what the government does with. We all hated the GST, but we had a National Debt that was going through the roof, then we paid it way down and had a yearly surpluses and everyone was fine with it. Then along came Jones, (PMSH) and for a penny or two on a cup of coffee we now have no money and well on way back into debt! (many other bad news bears also) So if M. Dion can do even better with a carbon tax than what was accomplished with the GST….why not? All the Bully on Hill can do is attack Dion, no dam plan, no leadership (ministers falling like bricks) and he is about to shut the government down and go on an extended vacation at taxpayers expense…..Hello the lights are not even on AND soon there will be nobody home until November so they plan for their Christmas dinners….who minding the store? Loud Mouth PVL?
Liberals like to make big noises about signing agreements that are meaningless to them .. like Kelowna .. like Kyoto … and now this Ontario-Quebec “agreement” between Liberal premiers … all do-nothing posturing events .. particularly Kyoto.
By Harry S on 06.02.08 1:01 pm
I disagree with your statement that the Ontario-Québec cap and trade agreement is meaningless, Harry.
I believe it is meaningful and argue that, if implemented, properly, it would work towards reducing emissions and limiting the amount of atmosphere Canada gives to polluters.
First, the agreement sends a sorely needed signal of political cooperation to Canadians. While Canadians’ individual efforts do help to mitigate the effects of man made climate change, I believe we need the power and reach of government to pivot our efforts into concerted action that gives tangible, measurable results.
Second, if done right, a cap and trade system can be a good tool to fight climate change. I will, however, concede that, if done wrong, it won’t reduce emissions and will transfer money from families to polluters.
But let’s assume that Ontario and Québec want to do it right. If so:
- All permits must be sold or auctioned, not given away.
- ALL carbon ENTERING the economy must be capped.
- All emitters must have permits, not just the historic ones (no grandfathering).
- Companies should not be given more permits than they require.
- Consumers and manufacturers must be protected.
- Offsets from outside the cap and trade framework cannot count against permits.
Harry, I’m willing to give Mr. McGuinty and M Charest the benefit of the doubt. Why aren’t you?
-R
Poor Stevie Harper…seems to be a DISHONEST & UNETHICAL leader!
By wjp on 06.02.08 6:06 am
It appears by the latest polls that the public doesn’t agree with your assumptions. The polls are probably the real reason why Dion and the Liberals are sitting on their hands or are conveniently absent when confidence votes are being taken.
By TS on 06.02.08 2:30 pm.
Harry S., you continue to amaze me with your stupidity. The details of Dion’s plan have not been made public, so any criticism from neoCon journalists are just symptoms of Harper trying to control messaging through some of his media cronies.
Let’s wait to see the plan, in detail. And, let’s wait to see what the experts on climate change have to say about it.
…………………………………………………..
Well … one of us is ’stupid’ .. and we know that RonnyP is a certifiable moron . But perhaps you should direct your cautionary remarks to our MP Garth, who has apparently seen Dion’s ‘green’ plan #3 and has stated:
“He’s had a team toiling seven days a week on getting it right, and I suppose we’re closer.”
…. and …
“In any case, I suspect it will get out the door soon. Then, judge for yourself. I have.”
Together with what our MP Garth and Dion have disclosed, it’s quite reasonable to analyse and criticize as has journalist Tom Ford has said in the liberal Winnipeg Free Press about Dion’s direction on carbon tax and income tax to affect environmental issues.
I suggest you direct your comments to the topic posted by MP Garth, instead of calling people stupid, when in all likelihood it is you who is stupid.
Why are so many conservatives so anxious to have an expensive election to maintain the status quo or near status quo. By status quo I mean minority government, would not want to pick the winner though. I think perhaps Mr. Dion has shown more subtle smarts than anyone gives him credit for, with all the darts thrown at him he is still standing, and he knows if he lets these guys govern long enough they will defeat themselves. That is what happens in parliamentary democracy, elections are not won, they are lost. If people are basically satisfied then the incumbents win. If they are unhappy then watch out, just ask Kim Campbell, John Turner and Paul Martin. Also Mr. Dion does not need to make public his platform until there is an election called. Between elections policy is made by the governing party and the opposition parties react to them.
By bonnie l on 06.02.08 2:30 pm
Instead of always posting all that drivel over and over again, just provide us with the URL and we will link over to what you continually copy and paste .. wasting valuable bandwidth on MP Garth’s fine forum … ya hear ..???!!!
Gary Lunn, Ottawa
Minister of Natural Resources
Complete and utter RUBBISH.
Now he thinks he’s the Finance Minister and that’s not saying much.
By Ron p on 06.02.08 10:33 am
Ron – There’s been lots of talk that Pissy Harpie will do a ministerial switch soon, but he has little to choose from. Doesn’t matter as he & his PMO back room guys controls all ministries – he doesn’t dare let his minister’s talk for themselves, as he knows they’ll opem their mouths and show themselves for the ignorant people they area. Yep, Harpy has a problem – nobody with experience in the front or back benches – other than Fortier & the other guy (Anderson?) that crossed over a day or 2 and he nominated to the Senate. Funny, he was so willing to nominate them to the senate but is totally against nominations to the senate. Hyprocite or what.
Getting Used To It
“Get used to it” – you hear that phrase a lot lately from our politicans…there’s not much we can do about it, they say.
Your property taxes are going up 20% because services provided cost more, says the Mayor. Meanwhile he needs expanded staff to keep track of those extra $ and of course the extra staff need a new City Hall. Who pays? You do! -get used to it.
Haper says that the govt. can’t do anything about rising gasoline prices. He shrugs while the GST tax on tax keeps on ticking higher and the taxes roll in. Who pays? You do! – get used to it.
Stelmach smiles and gives himself a $54,000 RAISE. He has no problems coping with inflation. A 30% pay increase for his 23 Cabinet Ministers.
Who pays? Albertans do! – get used to it.
Cities want greening initiatives. They install more toll roads, outsource recycling and privatized water utilities. Who pays? You do! – get used to it.
Retired? – Are you hoping that the inflation index will keep you even at least. Hedonistic accounting methods look at your buying habits. Did you switch from buying steak to ahmburger?…then your cost of living has actually decreased according to them. Are they adding ethanol to make the fuel cleaner? – that means that your gas price has decreased, because you are getting a cleaner, better quality gasoline for the money. Who pays? You do! -get used to it.
Want a return beyond inflation on your meagre savings? Get into the stock market sucka.
It’s the only investment exit left open to you, from a Finance Minister that doesn’t want no steenkin coupon clippers. Who pays? You do! – get used to it.
Flaherty says that we’re booming.Well, his speechwriter is. Have you gone grocery shopping lately? Have you had an airplane flight recently? And this is just the start
going forward 
Who pays? You do! -get used to it.
Can you post a quote about the fake Canadian link that CB Innes supposedly posted. The reason I ask is that, while I may not always agree with what CBI posts, I believe she is non-partisan and I consider her to be a perceptive observer of politics.
By kpn on 06.02.08 1:04 pm
I have no idea what B is going on about either. I simply have put that handle on my “do not bother to read list” with people like Harry and Catherine and Brain (mainly because this time of year I don’t have time to read long posts).
Garth: I’d like to support your team, seriously. But does the verb “dither” ring a bell? The Liberal plan is being branded as a gas tax right now, and whether that’s fair is hardly the point. Get in the game.
You want to perfect the policy first? Voltaire – the best is the enemy of the good.
Is that why you feel compelled to come and change your handle with such frequency, Darrell? — Garth
By Keith on 06.02.08 1:04 pm
Garth – I may not agree with all of your policies, but I definitely agree your your openess to hosting a blog and allowing people to speak their mind. Some, unfortunately, are ‘over-the-top, IMHO.
I have always posted under the same name – ‘kpn’. They are my actual initials. I will not post under my full name because I do not trust this government or the internet.
Garth – I believe that many posters comment under other aliases. I would encourage you to identify them, whether they be cons or libs. Personally, I have noted many posts, under various names, that, to me atleast, seem to be the same person. I could be wrong???
Analysis of Gary Lunn’s Letter
We have all felt the pinch at the pumps recently, as the price of gas has risen in leaps and bounds.
In his own words:
When asked “What are you going to do about the price of gas?”
“I don’t know…. Nothing. You sound like my wife,” he said. “Every time the price goes up, it’s my fault. I get home from Ottawa, both vehicles are on fumes…I have to fill them up before I leave Sunday.”
The opposition has said the government should fix the price — while at the same time calling for massive gas taxes. This is hypocritical.
In his own words:
“I want to say at the outset that we have been meeting regularly with the industry — with CEOs, with all of the people, both in the conventional oil and gas sector as well as the oil sands — to hear their concerns as we move forward. I said in the beginning that there’s been a strong emphasis on the environment, but we have to balance that also with the economy.”
Canadians are smart. They know that the world price of oil and gas is based on supply and demand. With countries like China and India growing very quickly, their demand grows, and so there is a higher price.
Not in his words:
WASHINGTON – Federal regulators are six months into a wide-ranging investigation of U.S. oil markets, with a focus on possible price manipulation.
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission today said it started the probe in December and took the unusual step of publicizing it “because of today’s unprecedented market conditions.”
Stéphane Dion’s carbon tax plan (which could be the largest tax increase in our nation’s history) would push gas prices and heating oil prices to record levels, and this would have a domino effect and push up the cost of everything we buy, sell, or trade.
Food, services and even goods we export would rise in cost.
Not in his words:
Globe and Mail June 2, 2008
Gary Struthers, spokesman for the Ontario Federation of Agriculture, said farmers are not only spending more on fuel for their tractors and other equipment, but are also being hit with increased costs for moving livestock or milk to market.
Meanwhile, another story is unfolding in Alberta, where food banks say higher gas prices are already having an effect on how they operate – and if the prices keep climbing, they fear what will happen to their already dwindling supplies and volunteers.
That is not good for our economy, and especially hard on middle- and low-income families. Stéphane Dion and Jack Layton would probably be fine, but average hard-working Canadians, particularly those people with fixed incomes, would suffer.
Since coming to office just over two years ago our Conservative government has taken actions that will provide nearly $200 billion in tax relief over 2007-08 and the following five years. This will reduce the federal tax burden to its lowest point in nearly 50 years.
Not his words:
Carmellia Saretzky, co-ordinator of the Crowsnest Pass food bank, about three hours outside Calgary, said she used to receive a food delivery every six weeks. But with the price of gas creeping higher, the truck now comes in from Calgary every three months. And while it’s stocked with supplies, the shelves are usually close to bare two weeks before the next shipment comes in.
The food bank hands out about 40 to 65 hampers a month. Ms. Saretzky said the higher price at the pump has forced the working poor to carpool to pick up their hampers. And it’s also keeping volunteers away. Ms. Saretzky said many volunteers live some distance from the food bank. Those who once volunteered three times a week now only drive in once a week, because of the cost of gas.
“We’re short volunteers. At the end of our three months, we’re short food. It’s really affecting us,” she said. “I can see it getting worse.”
That means Canadians are keeping more of what they earn. In fact, with the GST being reduced to five per cent, Canadians will save half a billion dollars more on gas alone this year. At the same time, we have invested more than $9 billion in green programs, while forcing big oil and big industry to cut their greenhouse gas emissions. Canadians know how to choose between higher taxes and lower taxes.
Not in his words:
CBC May 1. 2008
The Canadian economy is a star among G7 economies, the statistics tell us. It’s churning out jobs, housing prices are still rising, inflation is at a generation low.
Statistics Canada’s findings are based on 2006 census figures so there’s no arguing with the data — everyone’s included. The census stats prove that some of the income gaps between the most and least advantaged in this country are wide — and growing ever wider.
With Stéphane Dion we would hurt Canada’s economy, and hurt low and middle-income families who can’t afford his massive carbon tax.
His words:
“I’m looking to develop a national energy strategy with the Provinces. Where we won’t go is toward a national policy like the National Energy Program of the 1980’s. We’re going to let market forces work, and we’re pushing the energy sector to develop clean energy technologies.”
Gary Lunn, Ottawa
Minister of Natural Resources
By Ron p on 06.02.08 1:27 pm
Haven’t seen his(Dion) plan yet so don’t assume I’m taking any advice from it.
His(Dion) plan still has to be judged but it appears you’ve already made up your intolerant mind to snuff it.
…………………………………
Not me … Tom Ford in the Winnipeg Free Press is judging what Dion and others have already revealed about his coming ‘green’ plan #3 … as has our MP Garth on this weblog, namely:
“As you’ve guessed by now, that’s why he[Dion] is determined to unveil a tax-shifting policy which will put a price on carbon, and offset it with big new tax breaks. Trust me, they will be significant. If you actually don’t give a whiz about the environment, then you’ll still like this plan for the savings it can produce. The only action you might need to take is to change some spending habits.”
… and …
“Most people now have an idea where this guy[Dion] is going, although the specific details will not be released until he gives the green light. But Dion has signalled that, as prime minister, he’d put a price on carbon, then use the money collected from emitters and polluters to lower personal and corporate taxes. The idea is to tax stuff we don’t want, and cut taxes on things we do.”
……………………………..
So RonnyP … you should address you criticisms to what Tom Ford said of Dion’s remarks … and try not to attack the messenger, suggesting he is an incompetent reporter and only a journalist like our MP Garth who tells us: “Most people now have an idea where this guy[Dion] is going …” … !!!!!
I read in the paper that Peter Van Loan said that there has been no discussion of prorogueing parliament. He stated that it is opposition rhetoric. Someone must be being dishonest. No wonder politicians are held in such high regard.
PVL also says there was no election cheating by Tories, that Bernier posed no security threat and PMSH was just bringing Cadman some chocolates. — Garth
Ah, I have decided to place my trust in the ‘Crystal Skulls’ rather than the empty skulls in the HoC! You have until 2012 to get on board! LOL
That $54B represents options to the program paid for by the people who use the program that could have and never will be considered once its written off. Its a deliberate bureaucratic theft that if its even understood is willingly overlooked by those who benefit from its deceit yet allow it to happen anyway.
The marker is a justified claim to priority that could have been leveraged as a reference for directing suitable program specific funds from other sources to the EI account. Writing off our debt to workers is an important step in making sure their influence does not increase. Its a deliberate act of oppression.
so no, the worst is NOT over with.
Copyright Wrongs
Jim Prentice is probably the most palatable of all of Harper’s Ministers; he comports himself well. I know that this may not be the sexiest of topics, what with Bernier in the news, but in the coming weeks prior to Parliament’s summer shut down, it is anticipated that Prentice will yet again bring forward his Copyright Bill, very likely with nothing more than cosmetic changes to his initial offering last winter that caused a retreat after the outcry he experienced from citizens in his own city of Calgary. Now with a suspected change in portfolios to Finance and rumour of proroguing, I wouldn’t be surprised if he will likely want to offload it as is, as his last act before changing roles.
The bill that is expected to brought forward may very well result in the type of protectionist shenanigans that one witnesses in the States that go well beyond the spirit of what such regulations should reasonably do.
For example, a copyrighted product usually becomes public domain 50 years after its initial release. In the case of recorded music, what record companies in the US are now attempting to do to bend those rules — especially given the longevity of such great music written in the 60s and 70s that is approaching its expiry date (yes I know, it’s the baby-boomer-bias in me speaking and as a considerable force, my peers who are now looking back nostalgically and keeping that music alive [although I do know of a certain 12 year old whose tastes for classic rock exceed those for its contemporary counterpart; one day he'll like the jazz of the era too]) — is taking say a Rolling Stones or Bob Dillon or Neil Young, etc. album, originally released in analogue format, and making claims that the digital equivalent released on CD constitues a “new” work. Hence by that assertion, the copyright date is moved forward to 2003, say, from the original 1967, giving it an extended lease on life simply because it’s a digital remaster. Same artist, same music, same lyrics, same recording date; only the media differs. The same thing is happening with books, where a copyright symbol may sometimes appear adjacent to the latest publishing date. (Oh yes, and don’t reference “Lucy Maud Montgomery” &tm; in a published piece of work without permission; it’s owned by the Province of PEI, I believe).
… Moving along, we find Apple being recently granted a trademark [which unlike copyright, has no expiry date] on the rectangular box shape used for its IPOD (as though that shape does not look like every other MP3 player on the market):
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/05/apple-trademark.html
http://marketdrivengrowth.blogspot.com/
… And T-Mobile lays claim to the colour pink:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/deutshe-telekom.html
Now if one considers how technology is in a constant of flux — first VHS, then VCD, then DVD, then HD-DVD / BluRay, then … — one can see that by applying the same logic, a company could claim a new copyright date for the same piece of work and extend protection in perpetuity, well beyond the normal 50-year public domain rules.
I am not against a company protecting its intellectual property, but I think there needs to be reasonable accommodation. When a person buys a CD and plays it in her beauty salon, she shouldn’t have to pay royalties for having done so: it’s not a discoteque, its customers do not flock there to listen to the music, they just want a hair cut. If a person purchases a legitimate copy of music, he or she should be able to keep it as a master and make back-up copies to take in the car or to the beach where the hot sun and sand may cause damage, or make a mixed CD of favourite tunes, or copy songs on his or her MP3 player to listen to while jogging or going to the gym. He or she should not have to worry about hefty fines and criminal charges because a couple of songs were used as background music on the DVD slideshow he or she made of the kids or grandkids, or for the video taken at a family wedding. And a consumer should not have to worry about a vendor infecting his or her computer or having his or her privacy invaded as a result of a hidden protective mechanism. Or getting into trouble for using an unlocked cellphone that allows communications while travelling internationally through purchase of a local SIM card. But this is exactly what is at risk of happening.
Michael Geist has been the champion of consumer rights in this regards. What he has to say, regularly, should be of interest to you. Apparently, one of the consumer’s rights advocacy groups has sent a letter to every MP on the topic.
As someone who has had first-hand experience with the aforementioned Sony’s subterfuge, through purchase of a legitimate CD that installed the rootkit operating-system-and-privacy security breach on my PC, simpy by playing the CD while I working, I support the above. Sony had no right to open up my PC to potential hackers and to silent gather information for reporting back to headquarters. The end result was that a Class Action lawsuit was filed against Sony in which each affected purchaser was reimbursed with a “clean” version of the CD, software to remove the rootkit virus, and a download of any 2 CDs from a selection in Sony’s catalog. The irony of tha last bit, the 2 CDs, was by virtue of its downloaded format, it was necessary to copy the music to a home-burned CD, and that format would put me in potential violation of the DMCA restrictions.
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.02.08 4:53 pm
Ah, I have decided to place my trust in the ‘Crystal Skulls’ rather than the empty skulls in the HoC! You have until 2012 to get on board! LOL
…………………………………
You sound totally demented now Bill and unable to focus on the topic at hand and going off on tangents nobody can understand.
Is it because half the Democratic party supporters will be voting for McCain ‘08 … and Dion is in his final death throes as Liberal leaders ….???!!!
By bonnie l on 06.02.08 2:30 pm
Instead of always posting all that drivel over and over again, just provide us with the URL and we will link over to what you continually copy and paste .. wasting valuable bandwidth on MP Garth’s fine forum … ya hear ..???!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 3:36 pm
Bonnie, have you noticed the number of times our self-proclaimed ratsh*t citizen has used the word WE?
Somewhere deep down in that pea sized brain of his lies the delusion that he’s running the show here.
Harry doesn’t represent anybody except maybe his NEW buddy in Winterpeg who for all WE know, doesn’t have an education as extensive as Garth’s.
Still waiting for a list of Tom’s degrees…….
I’ve kicked Harry’s butt to the ground several times today and his only predictable comeback is to call someone a moron.
HA!!!! You’ve been great entertainment today Harry Boy and I enjoyed it very much.
By Harry S on 06.02.08 5:17 pm
So sorry Harry. Your name is not on the invitation list! Good luck!
By Ron p on 06.02.08 5:17 pm
Harry doesn’t represent anybody except maybe his NEW buddy in Winterpeg who for all WE know, doesn’t have an education as extensive as Garth’s.
Still waiting for a list of Tom’s degrees…….
I’ve kicked Harry’s butt to the ground several times today and his only predictable comeback is to call someone a moron.
HA!!!! You’ve been great entertainment today Harry Boy and I enjoyed it very much.
………………………………..
Here we have the disgraceful and cowardly display of RonnyP hiding behind Bonnie L’s skirt and avoiding forum discussion and debate after being gobsmacked by the facts as established by none other than our own MP Garth … you are such a pathetic putz RonnyP … full of bravado and bluster but still unable to respond to MP Garth’s own published words on this fine weblog …. hide RonnyP, hide ….LOL
Haven’t seen his plan yet so don’t assume I’m taking any advice from it.
His plan still has to be judged but it appears you’ve already made up your intolerant mind to snuff it.
By Ron p on 06.02.08 1:27 pm
Ron, is it considered intolerant to not trust politicians when they say a tax will be good for you?
Forevergreen, that is exactly the failure of Kyoto. Buying carbon credits from third world polluters does nothing to reduce GHG emissions. The purpose of Kyoto was to transfer wealth. It is not an environmental plan but a financial aid plan.
By Janice on 06.02.08 9:01 am
Hi Janice – could you please enlighten us to what your plan is.
Thanks in advance (TIA).
Until Dion chooses to actually unveil the “carbon tax plan” to the people of Canada whether it is good or bad, a tax decrease or an increase, workable or unworkable, fair or unfair is simply unknown to us.
so no, the worst is NOT over with.
By Geiseric the Lame
I think you mean that you are still ticked off about it. I don’t blame you. It’s just that no government will ever committ to putting $54 Billion back into the EI system. Not unless the Bloc and the NDP somehow form a coalition government.
The environmental movement has become a movement based on a religious faith (the worship of Mother Earth, or Gaia) rather than scientific fact.
Dion has fallen for the Al Gore myths, hook, line and sinker. He seems not to have the smarts to avoid being misled by bad information from those who are using him for their own agenda.
All these stories about the polar bears drowning, etc. These stories have developed a life of their own. Nobody who actually lives in the North actually believes them. There are so many polar bears.
I will take the word of somebody who together with their ancestors have lived on the land from time immemorial before I will take the word of some pseudo-scientist who is trying to make a political point for partisan purposes.
This whole carbon tax idea is not going to fly, and will go nowhere.
Any one who thinks that Dion will save the planet by his carbon tax is in for a rude awakening.
People see some of these myths in a movie, and then pass them on as if it were science, but while a lie is spreading around the world, the truth is just putting on its boots.
The truth always prevails, and these prophets of doom and gloom are disproven time after time after time.
When will we learn?
Harry seems to be the major source of atmospheric heating in Canada today..
But let’s assume that Ontario and Québec want to do it right. If so:
- All permits must be sold or auctioned, not given away.
- ALL carbon ENTERING the economy must be capped.
- All emitters must have permits, not just the historic ones (no grandfathering).
- Companies should not be given more permits than they require.
- Consumers and manufacturers must be protected.
- Offsets from outside the cap and trade framework cannot count against permits.
Harry, I’m willing to give Mr. McGuinty and M Charest the benefit of the doubt. Why aren’t you?
-R
By Rob Wiebe on 06.02.08 3:28 pm
Good post, Rob. Thanks! Just a tip…don’t give Harry the time of day.
(GST, Gun Registry, etc…).
Seems they all get addicted to the additional cash flow.
By Dan on 06.02.08 8:06 am
Dan,
Get it right.
The GST was implemented by Mulroney, not the Liberals.
So much for your credibility.
Instead of always posting all that drivel over and over again, just provide us with the URL and we will link over to what you continually copy and paste .. wasting valuable bandwidth on MP Garth’s fine forum … ya hear ..???!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 3:36 pm
Who made you sheriff , asshole ?
. . . a quiet clause that writes off the $54B that’s been raided from the EI fund.
By Geiseric the Lame on 06.02.08 7:23 am
Hello Geiseric.
Clinton did this first, by transferring the US unemployment benefits to the debt, so as to make it seem that a surplus existed which it didn’t; dubya has since spent the entire amount, and then some.
A further point to keep in mind when the election comes around.
****************************************
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 06.02.08 8:25 am
Hello Pecked.
From what I understand, both gas / diesel prices have been at least double, if not more in price over ‘ome for a couple of decades or so now.
Desite all the whining here, we have it really good.
Main test will be this winter with oil heated homes. Gas and electricity won’t be much better, either.
****************************************
By Son of Harry S on 06.02.08 10:14 am
HonkyHemorrhoid is not in kindergarten yet, at least mentally. He still blubbers on and on and on, doesn’t make any sense at all.
The first line in Pink Floyd’s song “Comfortably Numb” applies: “Hellloooo, is there anybody in there?”
Check again next lifetime!
When will we learn?
By Keith on 06.02.08 6:05 pm
When will you learn Keith,Darrel,Harry,Larry or whatever the hell you are calling yourself this afternoon ?
Go spout your drivel on Small Dead Con-Bots .
They will believe your stupid ravings .
Yea, global warming is a world wide scientific conspiracy perpetrated by some of the finest minds on the planet .
Guess they have nothing better to do .
You are one STUPID asshole .
Garth, what sad display for the Liberals. Stephane Dion did NOT prove anything for this today – only 9 Liberal MPs bother to show up in House. He might as well had his Liberal MPs vote with the government as he never intended for his Liberal MPs to against the government.
Mr. Dion does NOT respect our democracy.
I was there. Some day I’ll tell you why. — Garth
Dion’s Liberals Will Allow Harper’s Conservative Government To Continue In Power With Votes Tonight
There are going to be three key votes taken in the House of Commons tonight on the Conservative’s controversial immigration reforms that are part of a larger federal budget implementation bill. The New Democrats and the Bloc will vote to send the Harper administration to the people for a new mandate or defeat. The Liberal Caucus will, however, allow the Harperites to continue governing.
Canadians will be reminded of this when the time comes. Canada has a coalition government right now with the Liberal Members of Parliament propping up the Conservative minority.
Globe & Mail
Our MP Garth Turner was educated at the University of Toronto Schools. He earned a Bachelor of Arts in English literature from the University of Toronto, and a Master of Arts in English literature from the University of Western Ontario.
Before entering a career in politics, Turner was business editor of the Toronto Sun.
So RonnyP … you should address you criticisms to what Tom Ford said of Dion’s remarks … and try not to attack the messenger, suggesting he is an incompetent reporter
By Harry S on 06.02.08 4:29 pm
You criticisms? Oh, I can’t spell and you can’t write LOL.
First off, I did not suggest that Tom Ford was an incompetent reporter. You posted a comment whereby you were comparing your buddy Tom to Garth, suggesting I might add , that he was Garth’s comparable. You included all of Garth’s credentials but neglected to include Tom’s.
I’m sure he’s a fine journalist but I would still like to see his credentials and then I’ll decide for myself (not you) if the two are comparable.
If you don’t know then fine, just say so, and if that’s the case then stop comparing people to each other with only half the facts. Otherwise there’s no comparison
Do you get it?
You’re playing the “it’s my way or the hi-way” game and it doesn’t play well on this blog.
You try to chew out Bonnie for her use of copy and paste but somehow it’s OK if you do the same.
ie. An entire article from the Winterpeg Free Press. You can just provide the URL next time. That took up too much space.
Do you actually think that your posts are the most important on this forum.
You’re quite full of yourself , aren’t you? I know and it shows, in fact
–it’s leaking out of every orifice of your body.
By Keith on 06.02.08 6:05 pm
Okay, I’ll listen if you can back up your argument with facts and links..
Over to you Keith.
Here we have the disgraceful and cowardly display of RonnyP hiding behind Bonnie L’s skirt and avoiding forum discussion and debate after being gobsmacked by the facts as established by none other than our own MP Garth … you are such a pathetic putz RonnyP … full of bravado and bluster but still unable to respond to MP Garth’s own published words on this fine weblog …. hide RonnyP, hide ….LOL
By Harry S on 06.02.08 5:33 pm
LOL
There’s your problem, you actually think that we want to discuss and debate with you.
You’re a FOOL Harry.
I was there. Some day I’ll tell you why. — Garth
By Catherine on 06.02.08 6:31 pm
Garth, your words and those of your Liberal Leader’s are NOTHING. Your actions and those of your Liberal Leader’s speak volumes. No need to spin words into fables.
I can only imagine how sick of this CPC government Canadians will be by the time we actually have an election. This is the sickest example of ‘anticipation makes the heart grow fonder’ I may have ever experienced.
Hi KPN,
I hope you noted how this fellow who calls himself LAWRENCE has falsely smeared me for the past two days. LAWRENCE even went so far as to answer on my behalf, I see, the question you asked me, and then he turned around and smeared me again, and changed the channel. Then he goes back to making other posts. More on that later.
And KPN, I had especially wanted to answer that question you asked. It’s posted at:
BARB — 06.02.08 3:14 PM
Also, I wanted to ask you earlier, how you are doing? I had run out for a dr’s appt. and realized I had been meaning to ask but forgot in my rush.
I wanted to answer your question better, too. We both have so much in common. I kept one of your posts, a month ago, about who had the loveliest hat on Sunday and other hypocrisies you and I both lament about.
I had felt the same way you did, about C. B. but when she/he attacked me ??!!? that got my suspicious radar going.
If C.B. Innes has a beef with BRAIN, she should have replied to him, don’t you think? Unless she can refute what Brain said. C. B. if you are reading this, and you can prove Brain wrong, then by all means. It’s not my job. And C. B. perhaps you’d like a truce, as I think this was stirred up by the smearings of others who are obviously up to no good.
Garth knows who I am, because a couple of times I emailed Esther about him making a typing error, and Garth himself emailed me back to say thanks.. so I am impressed with the Garth/Esther team – their hard work and honesty.
So, the trolls targeted me today. They’ll smear anyone who tries to find out or tell the truth. Doesn’t bother me, because it just puts them in the very bad light they should be in.
Also KPN, your posts today – excellent – we think alike.
BY KPN ON 06.02.08 11:54 AM “I had just retired when I watched the towers go down. We were all in shock, but DH & I were not surprised, and said so to a few family members. Look at American foreign policy this last century”
~ Heck, that’ my life, and my hubby and I feel the same way.. from Rove, Pearl, Rummy, Wolfowitz, Frum, Steve’s “tactics” – not too smart, is he? I agree with all your comments, and I just wanted to let you know. And I too live for the day all these wannabee ‘Americans’ get kicked clear out.
Even though I only voted for Joe once, I’d still like to see the right wing revived. Not this phony baloney cheat at every turn group. It’s a disaster, and I just don’t know if truth will ever return. Maybe we’re just getting old. Today’s Liberal party, not too left, not too right, that seems fine with me.
Take care and let me know your thoughts on these trolls when you have a moment. Thanks.
One comment:
Be an MP; do not “skip” the votes!
I was there. Some day I’ll tell you why. — Garth
Garth,
that day will come when an election scheduled or otherwise takes place.
Maybe it has something to do with the PM attitude. Apparantly the Bernier Affair (leaving sensitive documents behind, and not Julie) will go before the Public Safety Committee and the PM and the CPC will not co-operate.
Another smack in the face for accountability, from the government that ran on its integrity and being accountable. The hole for this CPC government keeps getting deeper.
However, Garth, as they keep digging, Canada continues to slide towards the precipice. I trust Mr. Dion will pull the plug before Canada falls in the hole, and the Libs ladder ends up being too short to pull Canada out.
Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney . . . I luv it!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GlS8O257Gi0&feature=related
****************************************
Further to the above, report on what happened in Germany from about 1918 on, and the similarities to now.
Last I heard, Zimbabwe’s inflation ran somewhere between 25,000-50,00%. How much would a box of cornflakes be?
http://tinyurl.com/3sdmhh
****************************************
Speaking of money, how much oil will money buy, as there is lots of it at the Arctic!
http://tinyurl.com/595r6g
Baird was a riot today. Held up a binder and a piece of paper. Said which one is the better plan? He really thinks size matters!!!!
Oh, and when I said before that it would be nice if that poor old dead party were alive again today, that’s impossible of course. I was just dreaming of the days when there were also decent politicians on the right who were worthy foes as they say. Now we have so many voters unrepresented by their conservative politicians whose mouths are gagged.
That’s can’t be good.
whatever
theft is one thing. throwing out proof of ownership in the aftermath is another.
Now wasn’t that a noble token display of Opposition by the Liberals as the Budget Bill passed without a whimper. Liberals, you have won the token vote from this Canadian:
…………………./´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…..
So glad Dion did not bring Steve down.
All eyes will be on the Security Committee hearings into the Julie-Max affair. Steve will be a no-show.
Lots of lawyers will be involved.
More revelations coming tomorrow on Julie’s past involving more than just bikers.
Will we really find out what Steve knew and when???
I was there. Some day I’ll tell you why. — Garth
Garth …. why did you absent yourself for the vote on the government Budget and Immigration bill??!!
Redmond said you left the HoCs after voting on the non-confidence motions .. did you leave in disgust ..??!!!
Well, now we know that Dion will not bring down Harper. Next we need to have solid reasons why?
I note one key reason…Harper again refuses to submit to the Law and an inquiry.
I am not impressed, and will remain unimpressed unless such proceedings porve there is a valid reason, such as Harper being arrested and taken off to be booked.
Harper won’t appear at committee probing Bernier affair
Ottawa — The opposition parties created a parliamentary inquiry yesterday into the mishandling of confidential documents by former foreign affairs minister Maxime Bernier, but Stephen Harper rejected calls for rare prime ministerial testimony before MPs.
So be it!
What a continuous Circle Jerk! Enjoy yourselves, I have better things to do with my time than waste it with a bunch of partisan morons!
Enjoy becoming the 51st State. You won’t believe how fast your rights disappear Sheeple.
By Molly on 06.02.08 6:44 pm
Patience Molly. We all know the NDP or the Bloc lnow they have not one iota of forming a govt and want to put down the Libs as much, if not more, than the neo-cons. they both hate the neo-cons, probably more than the Libs, and have supported the neo-cons, in the last election, against their own interests, just to get back at the libs. I have lost all respect for the NDP.
BTW, Alexa MacDonald, whom I used to respect, has said she will not run in the next election.
Ha Dion says you see, we wouldn’t have exposed the Bernier situation if we had taken down the government so now people can see this is really a “bad” government…so what does that make the opposition, who once again sat on their hand? BAD opposition!
C. B. INNES ~ I found where L.awrence starts this
“The stench of bigotry on this blog is really offensive”
BY L.AWRENCE ON 06.01.08 5:34 PM
[self proclaimed New Conservative]
To which I said:
“L.awrence, since your comment is meant to falsely imply something about this blog, let’s clear that smear up. Your pal H.arry, another Con, seems to be a bigot. [per his implication] And since no one likes bigots, you and he are not welcome – - don’t smear this blog with your lying liar lies. The channel here is permanently set on honesty.
posted by me at 06.01.08 6:03 pm
So C. B. ~ here’s where things go wrong:
In your post of:
“I think L.awrence has a good point. Are you suggesting that because H.arry paints a large offensive brush, it makes it acceptable for Liberal supporters to do the same thing? It seems to me that some of the Liberals and Conservatives here are very similar. The level of discourse here is getting to the point of being a contest as to which party’s partisans can slither deeper into the gutter.”
BY C. B. INNES ON 06.01.08 7:31 PM
~ So C. B. what you said, perhaps and probably because of L.AWRENCE twisting and diverting.. on purpose is now clear.. you somehow thought that I had condoned “that because H.arry paints a large offensive brush, it makes it acceptable for Liberal supporters to do the same thing?”
C. B.,
I never said that. L.awrence has done his job of confusing the message. L.awrence has done his job of cuddling up to everyone and then turning on them at his convenience.
C. B.? Truce, I’ll forgive your oversight, due to L.awrence’s trap he set for you and others. He succeeded. The trolls job is to divide us. I’d like to go back to reading your posts. I posted someone else’s post. Your dispute with Brain, or whatever his dispute with you, dangled.
L.awrence no doubt will get in here and try to confuse things again. Expect that.
Just like Bonnie, I’m beginning to wonder:
Bonnie joked, “Sure sounds to me that Darrell may be McVety”
BY BONNIE L ON 05.30.08 8:22 PM
Then today Garth smartly revealed this:
K.EITH ON 06.02.08 1:04 PM
~ Is that why you feel compelled to come and change your handle with such frequency, D.arrell? — Garth
So K.eith is D.arrell.
So when L.awrence compared me to McVety?! Maybe L.awrence does have a sense of humour.
… maybe L.awrence and K.eith and D.arrell …?
YES … it’s important that we get to the bottom of the Mulroney-Schreiber affair before we have an election..!!
YES … it’s important that we get to the bottom of the Bernier-Couillard affair before we have an election..!!
YES … it’s important that we find out about the Dion-Carbon Tax scheme from Dion himself before we have an election..!!
YES … the grand Liberal party will make certain Canadians are fully informed about Mulroney-Schreiber-Bernier-Couillard-Dion-Carbon Tax … before we have an election so that Canadians can make an informed choice..!!
Garth .. you must really be proud to be a part of the Liberal team forcing investigations on all these matters that are so crucial to the families in Halton riding and all of Canada for that matter.
Keep up the good job Garth .. and you will be propitiously rewarded … udaman ..!!!
PECKED, MUSKOKA – Don’t Go! We need you!
There’s gotta be some reason to this. I send friends and family here to read. They.. need you.
Again, if the outrage coming from the CPC supporters is any indication of the job Mr. Dion is doing then I am solaced.
Also, I always wonder why the CPC and supporters act like an opposition to the official opposition (it’s weird), rather than try to defend their party’s policies on its merits and promote new initiatives. While I don’t think there is much to merit to those policies and initiaves you would think that they would.
“Liberals tell people they oppose immigration changes,” Layton said.
“This is their opportunity to (show) it. If they don’t stand in the House . . . and bring their members in, they’re essentially saying their word is not worth the paper it’s printed on.”
—————————————-
Earth to Jack Layton, We can live in a paperless world in this day and age. Does that mean the Liberals word is worth nothing?
Rudd is right with this. Oz was wrong to go into Iraq; now all their troops are home.
Ours are still in Af’stan; why? . . .
http://tinyurl.com/4nwlkw
*******************************************
. . . and the uncle of Mia Farrow’s nephew writes a letter to the editor, bad-mouthing dubya.
Good. About time some big names started calling this war for what it is. Lies.
http://tinyurl.com/3hmqq6
I must admit to a certain level of frustration with the opposition .
Allowing these ass hats to continue writing bad legislation and then watching as the Liberals hold their noses and let it pass is no joyous thing .
Their immigrant bill is racist and changes the nature of our country in essential ways .
No longer will the door be open for all peoples .
Only those who qualify by the cons narrow definition .
Once the Liberals are returned to power their first year will be taken up with over turning all the bull shit the cons have laid down .
I wish someone would tell us when the moment is ripe .
That’s all.
By bonnie l on 06.02.08 2:30 pm
Instead of always posting all that drivel over and over again, just provide us with the URL and we will link over to what you continually copy and paste .. wasting valuable bandwidth on MP Garth’s fine forum … ya hear ..???!!!
By Harry S on 06.02.08 3:36 pm
I am so happy that you post on this blog Harry because you show us the true arrogance and controlling attitude of the neocons. You help those of us who are sane and wise to stay on point and support Dion and his team. You help keep us motivated to go beyond our previous limits to support Stephane and the team in the next election.
Keep up the good work and by doing it, you help elect Stephane Dion and his Liberal team memabers so we will have a fairer, greener, more prosperous free Canada.
Your insanity shows when you expect me to do what you tell me to do!!!
A LITTLE GIFT FOR HARRY
The Liberal Party of Canada
Our Vision
The Liberal Party’s three pillar approach sets a clear path to ensuring Canada’s bright and prosperous future. By weaving together economic prosperity, social justice and environmental sustainability, together we can build a better Canada.
In Summary
Liberals believe in a Canada that is the envy of the world. A country where economic prosperity goes hand in hand with social development and where a healthy sustainable environment is driven by leading edge research and innovation.
Investing in a Stronger Canada
A truly innovative economy is one driven by ideas, invention and technologies, one which leads the way in how it produces goods and delivers them to global markets.
A Healthy Environment
The world is now facing a global environmental threat worse than any we have previously seen. Canadians know that climate change is real; they are witnessing first hand more violent storms, longer heat waves and increasing droughts.
Social Justice for All
Giving families a helping hand, at all stages of life, is an important part of creating a society of which we can all be proud.
Strengthening Our Communities
Canada’s cities are at the centre of our country’s success; driving economic growth, employment and innovation. As our population grows and changes, our cities are facing increasing challenges in dealing with the growing burden placed on municipalities.
Timely and Quality Healthcare
Our national health care system is a legacy that Liberals will never abandon. We will ensure that our health care system will continue to be there when Canadians need it, no matter where they live, and no matter what their income.
Respecting Our Farmers
Our hard-working farmers deserve the unqualified respect and gratitude of their fellow Canadians. Their contribution to the fabric of our nation does not receive the recognition it should.
A Brighter Future for Aboriginal Canadians
The rich cultures of Canada’s First Nations, Inuit and Métis people form the foundation of our great country. Aboriginal Canadians represent the largest segment of our young people and the fastest growing segment of our population.
A More Representative Parliament
Women and girls in Canada today enjoy a level of equality and freedom that eluded their mothers and grandmothers. But despite the tremendous progress we have made, Canada’s Parliament still has unacceptably few women.
Canada Will Not Fail the World
Canadians can be proud of our nation’s history of service to the world. Whether it is through international aid, peacekeeping, trade or security, the Liberal team is committed to ensuring Canada’s continued international role of pride and influence.
Canadians love tax increases! Bring the carbon tax soon so we can send the government more of our money. Who has their hand in your pocket. Revenue Neutral–baloney!
I have to admit, I suffer a little anxiety everytime the Liberal party chooses to let the CPC remain when I want nothing more than to exercise my right and obligation to vote. I’ve been ready since Parliment resumed last fall.
Mr. Dion must have a greater patience than I can muster.
And I think he’s proven his decisions to wait were worth the head shaking wonderment of his supporters.
It may be that there is more to find out about the CPC style of government and little more to find out about Mr. Dion’s kind of leadership but, as has been pointed out on this blog, how long can Canadians abide a government that has little depth on the front bench and continues to do image damage – to itself nationally – to our Nation globally.
- not recognize it when we’re done- indeed
Gary Lunn, didn’t your mamma tell you that all liars go to hell? $200 billion in tax cuts??? You and your Harpo CONS are out of your freakin’ mind if you think that voters are gullible enough to believe any of your CRAP.
LOLOLOLOL
utterly amazing
even sitting on their hands the Liberals manage to rule from the right.
so much for the two mainstream party theory. nothing has changed.
MWH, “Once the Liberals are returned to power their first year will be taken up with over turning all the bull shit the cons have laid down.”
If you think the Libs are the ones to do this, better look at history. The only thing the Libs have undone from previous government is cancel the helicopter contract that cost us something like 500 Million for nothing. If you want change, I think you’ll have to either the Dippers or the Greens and see if they are any different. For the past decade the Cons and the Libs are really the same party, different name.
Kerry
By Molly on 06.02.08 6:44 pm
…. The Liberal Caucus will, however, allow the Harperites to continue governing.
Canadians will be reminded of this when the time comes. Canada has a coalition government right now with the Liberal Members of Parliament propping up the Conservative minority.
…………………………………
Quite right Molly … Canada does have a de facto coalition government with the Conservatives providing responsible government and the Liberals degrading government.
If the Liberals want to again be the government party, they obviously must make deep changes to their organization and leadership … because they are suffering a failure of leadership relegating themselves to smutmongering and boasting without following up on their boasts.
Come the next election, the Liberals will have to defend their record of failed leadership and inability to organize themselves into a viable alternative government.
The Liberals are completely overwhelmed by their own mire …!!!
Thank you Mr. Turner, Mr. Dion, Liberal Caucus and MPs. It’s a hard place to be when you know you could win the battle, but in doing so risk losing the war. And Canada is in a war! Not the peacemaking effort with NATO in Afghanistan, but the one here in Canada between those who care little for others not their own sort and those who care much for others period.
Now, Stephen Harper will change tack and shut down parliament early and open it late, all to save his own from scrutiny, or indeed any of the openness, accountability and transparency he once purported to believe in. And Harper will have to do it in front of all Canadians!
Good work, Grits! Once again, instant gratification is shown to be detrimental to the good governance of Canada. As the Liberal Party has governed this great country ably for years by looking to the future, so it is today!
This Harper Party ulcer on the body of Canada will be eradicated, but not before it has pussed up and run its course. Then it will be lanced, and the body of Canada shall be well again.
Hang in there, Grits! Like you can.
—————
Now at least, MP Geurgis can bloody well get married and do her duty for Canada by having many, many children, stay home, and bless the $100 Harper cheque monthly.
Let’s let the Cons be Government for the next 4 years too! We have no Opposition and I don’t care what their ’secret’ strategy is. They don’t even have one. The NEWS is bad for the Cons, but apparently the news hasn’t reached the outer gallatic regions for the Libs to know it yet. Ptui!
Pecked to Death,
re. your 7:23 pm, you have a way with punctuation, Poopsie. Very clear.
Had a non-political and productive day, interrupted only by about 10 minutes of Question Period, just enough to convince me that I did not need more of playtime in the monkey house. Rae did get in a couple of good barbs, though.
Gather the Liberals went eye-ball-to-eyeball with the Cons – and blinked again. Too late read up on what happened, so good night.
Hi Men With Hats- I just read your 6:19pm & it was right on and hilarious too! If some aren’t finding what they want here, there is always the option of movin’ on down the road…
Greetings Garth. Just wanted to say I’m encouraged to see Ontario and Quebec working together on the environment. I hope that we can also learn some things from Quebec about investing in our children with adequate daycare for families and programs/activities for young people that keep their youth-crime statistics lower. I watched most of the debate on this and the Cons plan is, well, a build-more-prisons mentality. Why Garth, why do the Cons act against proven science and black and white statistics on so many important issues? We need to stand together and say this is not right! I am encouraged to see the governments of Ontario and Quebec show them how WE can work together in this Confederation.
” I think you’ll have to either the Dippers or the Greens and see if they are any different. For the past decade the Cons and the Libs are really the same party, different name.”
Kerry
By Kerry Busse on 06.02.08 9:49 pm
Kerry :
Not sure if the Dippers or Greens would offer much of an alternative .
The Greens have zero Parliamentary experience and the Dippers are far too socialist to appeal to the main stream.
Almost all of the cons so-called law and order issues will be appealed to the SCOC where they will die .Naturally .
Mr. Dion does NOT respect our democracy.
I was there. Some day I’ll tell you why. — Garth
By Catherine on 06.02.08 6:31 pm
There is no party leader that respects democracy…vote independent then!
Fuel prices, as almost everyone knows, are sky high. Slapping a tax on them is going to increase the chances of a wallet-draining inflationary spiral even more. Fuel prices have an immense ripple effect because they are a factor in everything from transportation to manufacturing and food supply.
http://tinyurl.com/3qtynz
By Harry S on 06.02.08 11:39 am
Then why did the present goverment allow them to double in the past year in Canada and without any environmental benefits to Canadians…seems like we face a small hike under the liberals with a benefit or a large hike under the CPC without benefits…
I guess a terrorists logic says go for the biggest hike with the least bang for your buck. This is CPC economics 101 by Harry the terrorist!
Since the EI program was implimented in 80′-81′, the EI surplus is around 15 billion and could be less if one is to factor in double digit interest rates that ran in the 80’s while over 25 billion worth of EI deficits clocked up before 93′.
Point is, I wish people would stop talking about EI surplus’s of 53 or 54 billion when, again, since its beginning, the actual EI program surplus taking 80’s and early 90’s deficits into account as well as interest, is around 15 billion!
Please, bloggers, do the research and get it right!!!
And how much should the EI have in the coffers for a long and nasty real estate led recession? Experts say its around… 15 billion. So much for another manufactured Harper EI surplus crisis (yawn).
By Paul on 06.01.08 10:23 pm
By Paul on 06.01.08 10:23 pm
Please don’t tell us that rising CO2 and methane gases aren’t something to worry about. The effects of these GHG’s contributing to global warming/climate change is very real. Sure, deforestation is big. So is a damaged ozone that is killing our plankton and plant life and allowing more radiation (shorter light wavelenghts from UV’s to gammas in particular) to hit earths surface. So is an acidifying ocean where coral reefs are dying world wide.
My point? Its the combination of greenhouse gases, damaged ozone and the destruction of life from man made pollution to deforestation that is creating the accelerated global warming/climate change we are seeing now. Its not just one or two things, Paul. Its everything combined!
Otherwise, we agree on the seriousness of it.
Two years ago, I was in full agreement with scientists who were in the know, saying that we had 10 to 20 years to turn it around or face a greenhouse effect that would be ugly. Assuming a human population would remain around 6.5 billion or higher the worst case scenario, if we didn’t turn it around within 10 years, was a melted Artic cap 20 years from now, a permanently melted tundra/boreal forest releasing a new supply of CO2 GHG’s, a nearly all melted Greenland 40 years from now, and the last to go would be Antartica in 50 to 60 years and the reason why its predicted that this is unstoppable is the lengthy atmospheric halflifes of CO2 and CH4. If ice melts went to far the atmoshere, trophosphere (and to a lesser degree the ionosphere) would over time expand to approximately 2.5 times its ceiling the world has now, the gaseous atoms would venture too far from the earths gravitational pull and would waft their way off into space and earth would lose most of its atmosphere and water in accelerated fashion, but before this ocean currents would likely stop and the predicted ice age to follow halted ocean currents is far from a lock and why? Too many green house gases. Combine this warming acceleration with the CO2 gases released from boreal forests and dying plankton and… The long and short of it is the fate of Venus/Mars with very little if any environmental potential left on this planet to sustain life.
It is my belief that we are approximately 8 to 20 years away from this critical turning point if we continue to increase GHG’s past 8 years and/ sustain for the next 10 years, production rates of GHG’s and kill the life at the same rates that filters GHG’s from the atmosphere/trophoshpere.
In other words, if we don’t address human population growth and human consumption of resources with long term environmental sustainability in mind, the tipping point will be reached in approx 8 to 18 years assuming the smartest minds were right with their conclusions 2 years ago of Earths tipping point being 10 – 20 years away (of which I fully agree). Again, I’ll remind all readers that the half life of CO2 and CH4 is far too long to turn back the clock and the fear of C02 from permafrost becoming permanently melted are very real.
There is, however, a more diabolical, more sinister outcome that could effect human populations much sooner, so y’all listen up. Its not good. Barring virus epidemics like another Spanish flu over the next 2 to 3 years, the likelyhood of vast weight displacements from glacial ice melts particularly in Greenland, Iceland (forcing these continents to want to rise from their current positions) and increased weights overall displaced on the ocean at the accelerated rates its been happening could lead to tectonic plate shifts the likes of which no one is predicting. These shifts are most likely to be most severe at San Andrea’s fault and to a lesser degree but certainly not infathomable, fault lines around the entire pac rim. The result could be extremely catastrophic, setting off volanic activity not seen for hundreds of millions of years.
The immediate effect of such an unforeseen event would be a dramatic global freeze from light being blocked by volcanic ash lasting for months. After the ash dissipates, the dramatically increased CO2 levels would warm up the earth just as dramatically to levels we would see approximately 20 years from now if humanity did absolutely nothing and GHG’s increased due to rising energy consumption and continued human population growth to around 7.5, 8 billion.
Such a volcanic led scenario, if it came rapidly, would lead to the mass destruction of most life on Earth and see human populations drop back to less than a billion. Its not hard to predict what would happen to world economies from there. End of days, the great tribulation, such expressions come to mind in describing such an outcome.
Based on such rapid ice melts we’ve already seen with the weight displacements we have already witnessed or are about to in Greenland and iceland as well as glacial melts world wide, the timelines of such accelerated icemelts leading to earthquakes of this magnitude are hard to say, scientific models haven’t been done to follow such volcanic activities spawned by ice melt weight displacement… but it could be as little as 5 years away.
All readers should keep in mind that the earths crust is thin relative to its diameter. We are, in essence, floating on a ball of liquid molten lava and major atmospheric changes displacing weight from rapid icemelts could trigger such a phenomenom.
What should we do? Everything possible to stop it and if governments don’t do anything, do what we can as individuals to conserve, become more politically and environmentally proactive, hope for the best regardless, and… begin to prepare for the worst.
(Sorry about the long post Garth, had to get this stuff off my chest and the timing is right)
Hi Men With Hats…Thanks for the law and order comment. The Cons are determined to take us down the road of failed U.S. sentencing policies and it makes me furious. Harris tried to do it in Ont. Of course you have more crime when you have more people living in POVERTY. My thinking is that they want to ‘tackle’ any one or any thing that comes between them and their STUFF. And ‘lock them up-out of sight-out of mind’ for whole segments of our society who don’t measure up. That seems to be what’s important to them. Guns, gas and their almighty dollar. Pity they can’t factor in the Human factor. I know how to live lean. And fight for those without the strength or voice. News Flash Cons!- the majority of Canadians care about PEOPLE first! Don’t expect you to get it though. You might start by growing up and getting some humility and integrity. There is always hope…
Garth, I beg to differ with any cap and trade or carbon tax being the answer to the problem. First, the rich and corporations will just ratchet up their spending on hydrocarbon fuels while the poor, middle class and us retirees will suffer more than ever. The solution lies in a equitable reasonable rationing system. This will lean down the wasting of gasoline and diesel fuels by forcing people of all walks to better plan/organize their trips. I daily see people making unplanned and unnecessary automobile trips. Until there are ironclad controls on the use and availability of hydrocarbons for everyone their will not be significant use reductions. The other problem the is not being addressed and not even talked about in regards to Greenhouse Gas Emissions Growth is the constant population growth. In my life time the world population has gone from 1/2 billion to now over 5 billion or more and is expected to reach double digits. Please expalin to me and others why we need more and more people. First of all our government still pays what was called a baby bonus to every family each month. surely this is the wrong thing to be doing. Maybe for the first 2 children but none should be paid for further additions, and maybe a tax on some higher level of reproduction. This is where all of the future problems of food production, clean water, air, and refuse control are going to be exacerbated. We as a species need to stop literally screwing ourselves out of our planet!