This scene of boreal bliss greets visitors at www.greenshift.ca. The good vibes stop there.
Well, let’s change the channel. But before we do, a word on www.thegreenshift.ca, since that seems to be the story of the last 15 minutes. The web site launched by the Libs to explain the Dion climate change and economic plan is but three letters off from www.greenshift.ca, the online home of a small Toronto-based company which also has a stake in a cleaner world, and likes to make money.
Were the Liberals just too dumb to notice? Have they ever heard of Google in Ottawa? Or the thingy that you use to register domain names?
Actually, here’s the story: Over the months that we worked on this concept of tax shifting, various names were used for the project, the “Green Shift” being decided upon relatively late in the process. Once that happened, a lot of branding quickly took place. One obvious key element was the URL.
Within minutes, the existing greenshift.ca site was located, and a strategy discussed for dealing with the commercial company operating it. They would be contacted in advance (which happened). I was in the meeting that dealt with this, as well as the raft of domain names which the party snapped up surrounding this name. All of them were legally registered, of course.
One obvious thought was that Green Shift, the company, which bills itself as a “facilitator of environmental stewardship” would suddenly see its web traffic mushroom from those who got the Dion site address wrong. And that happened. In fact, this message was put at the bottom of the Liberal site: “Disclaimer: This site is authorized by the Federal Liberal Agency of Canada, registered agent for the Liberal Party of Canada. It is not affiliated with Green Shift Incorporated. The following is a link to the Green Shift Incorporated website: www.greenshift.ca”
So, to recap: The Liberal Green Shift domain name, www.thegreenshift.ca, was available and was registered. The for-profit Green Shift company was notified in advance. It got a ton of hits. It has received non-stop national publicity. Millions of people who never knew it existed, do now. This traffic, headlines, notoriety and attention cost the company nothing. To achieve this level of brand recognition would have taken a marketing budget bigger than, I suspect, gross sales.
And now it wants to sue?
Maybe an enterprising journalist should ask the owner, Jennifer Wright, how she votes. I’m betting it ain’t Liberal.
Well, as to that channel-changing mood I was in, it’s now waned. So, let’s leave this for tomorrow: Dirty oil and the future of Alberta.
BTW, I just approved the 503rd comment on the blog posting below. The most ever in a day. This comes with a new poll claiming the Green Shift initiative has the potential to vault Liberals into government.
Amazing what happens when you screw everyone.
223 comments ↓
I guess she is a rotten selfish person for not wanting to be viewed as being affiliated with any political party.
On first mention that Greenshift.ca wants to sue, let them go for it. It is extra publicity for both of you and just attention that they are seeking. I am sure that with all the Liberal legal minds on board and your obvious penchant for documenting the proceedings, it will likely be a moot case in court with no substantial evidence of real or perceived damages. They will likely have to bear the cost of the lost libel action in the docket out of pocket! This also may aid your cause since having given notice and being very up front about the intention and proceeding. It just makes me wonder why so many people are so slow and far behind on the learning curve!
Shame on you and the Liberal party for smearing, even attacking poor Jennifer Wright, owner of Green Shift™ … and trying to make her political roadkill.
As for your veiled threat to determine how Jennifer votes, that is sick, low and undignified .. but that only reveals your fear that ‘green shift’ does not belong to the Liberal party.
You should apologize to Jennifer Wright of the original and only legitimate Green Shift™ …!!!!
This is much apprehension over nothing.
Dion will not be the next P.M. and his replacement will revamp the “green shaft” plan as be unrecognizable.
Maybe you could borrow jasonkenney.org from Rick Mercer? He’s always looking for new places to point it to.
Can’t handle the truth huh? Garth
Two posts deleted and they weren’t nasty.
Even though you are, they weren’t. — Garth
Define employment income.
Retiree’s receive other source income.
Define go blow a dead bear.
That was you last post, fool. — Garth
Much ado about nothing.
The trademark was not registered by the company, as reported elsewhere. The Liberal Party did the honourable thing by contacting them ahead of time.
I suspect it was all the crank phone calls that they received from conservatives today (as reported elsewhere in the blogosphere) is what has upset the company. If they just took a deep breath and got past the encouragement and incitement to sue from Reform Conservatives, Jennifer Wright would make out just fine in this.
Small dead animals actually likes to create road kill. I’m afraid Jennifer Wright is the latest victim of the Blogging Tories campaign.
Although the company was notified in advance, I gathered from the article in the Globe & Mail that they objected to the LPC horning in on “their” name. You make the advance notification seem like a courtesy, which it was in a way I suppose, but you’re creating a rather misleading impression by failing to mention their initial objections to use of the name. It sounds kind of like you guys were steamrolling them by advising them that you were using the name whether they liked it or not.
As well, it’s a legitimate concern on their part to not want to be associated with a particular political party given they do business with the Parliament Hill and may be attempting to secure other government contracts.
That said, I don’t agree with the company’s reaction and rather doubt they have a case for damages in view of all the free publicity they’re gaining through this mini “controversy.” It’s not as if this “nice, friendly, environmental organization” is being cast in a bad light in the media.
Green shift is a stupid name! Better would be Green Plan or Polkadot Plan … almost anything that doesn’t by excluding one letter turns the name into shit!
Much more foresight was needed and there were many other alternatives other than than the one that was chosen.
And it nuts to fight over domain names…had that happen to us when our company *.com designation expired. It was snapped up immediately and we would have had to pay truck loads of money to get it back. All we did was keep the same name, but register as *.ca instead of *.com. That didn’t cost us a dime , but chasing after just was not viable.
So the lady is going to sue you because you obviously picked a name that is too close to what she already had registered. Tough bananas…she was there first…like I said, a LOT more thought was needed.
Why is she suing? I thought only Cons liked to file lawsuits?
Heard the Cons are at with the lists again, this time it is Federally appointed judges.
Alberta is on about CCS, again. Scary to go full steam ahead with an unproven and very expensive plan. Who cares though when Canadian taxpayers are going to be on the hook for it? Who’s going to take responsibility if something goes wrong? Who is going to pay the additional costs to maintain the pipeline etc..? Albertans via higher energy costs? Canadian taxpayers who would have the costs but not the benefit? That’s not really ‘fair’ is it? Don’t the majority of other provinces import their oil and gas?
I read some of the political pundits about ‘The Green Shift’. I repeatedly read about how placing taxes on imports/exports may violate NAFTA. Who’s to say they won’t place tariffs on our exported goods without a plan? They placed tariffs on our lumber??? U.S. Mayors voted against using tar sands oil. New U.S government may decide to stop importing it completely. Alberta said they’d sell to China. Yeah right, Albertans/British Columbians will love the idea of having pipelines going through pristine parks, mountains and farmland especially after the recent pipeline ‘accident’ in Alberta.
Thanks for the heads up to get the site for the Liberal green Shift Plan. i.e.
http://www.thegreenshift.ca
For the people who profess interest in the topic, this is an editorial which appeared in yesterday’s Star:
Toronto Star editorial, June 22, 2008
Not so crazy economics
In his official biography, Prime Minister Stephen calls himself an economist, a label that would certainly lend credibility at first blush to his claim last week that Liberal Leader Stephane Dion’s proposed carbon tax is “crazy economics”.
But most professional economists would say that a carbon tax is the sanest way to fight climate change and that it is Harper’s assertion that’s crazy.
Don’t take our word for it. Ask one of Canada’s pre-eminent economists, Tom Courchene, who is the Jarislowsky-Deutsch Professor of Economics and Financial Policy at Queen’s University and senior scholar at the Institute for Research and Public Policy. Courchene, a former candidate for the Progressive Conservative Party, made his views known in a speech this month, titled Climate Change, Competitiveness and Environmental Federalism: The Case for a Carbon Tax.
Then, there is Jack Mintz, the former president of the C. D. Howe Institute, who currently holds the Palmer Chair in Public Policy at the University of Calgary. As he sees the options for fighting global warming, “carbon taxation looks the best of the lot”. Dion’s plan seems to have drawn heavily on a carbon tax that Mintz designed.
If these high-powered Canadian economists are “crazy”, then so must be Paul Volcker, former chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve, and Columbia University economics professor, Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate who also served in Washington as former chair of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers and chief economist of the World Bank–as well as a majority of the economists polled by The Wall Street Journal. We could go on, but the point has been made.
——————————————
The fact that the head of the Sierra Club and David Suzuki have given it their approval as well as the Council of Chief Executives, seems to give Mr. Dion’s plan quite a bit of legitimacy. Or is everyone crazy but our Mr. Harper?
You would think Jennifer Wright would be tickled green to have Dions plan implemented. Although i can see her point of not wanting to be affiliated with any political party. From her site it looks as if she,s is in the same ball park as Dion with her environmental policies. She,s either naive or embarrassed about this situation. Why is This? Talk about the goose laying the golden egg!
She mentions she consulted with the Ontario NDP for its election campaign last year.
Well! Hot Dam! There,s that N.D.P. lets shoot down anything the Liberals have in mind campaign. I applaud her buiseness and her paid work on the environment but she shows all the trappings of a cult member of the N.D.P. I think naive is the answer. If she is genuingly concerned with environmental issues you,d think she,d be wise to allign herself with Dion and or Elizabeth May.
The N.D.P have to be the biggest pain in the ass political party created in Canada.
Hey Garth, were you aware of this article? ” Toronto firm taking legal action against Liberal party use of ?green shift?:
Link: http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/080623/K062311AU.html
Either way, is it possible the LPC might need to re-name the plan “The Green Economy” or “The Green Transition”? Just offering some ideas!
Unfortunately, a no-win situation here.
“Big political party takes on small time environmental company,” just won’t play with the majority.
Settle this with lawyers, apologize, change name, move on.
Don’t y’all step on my “Green Suede Shoes” any silly fool even little ode me knows from my limited computer expertise that even a letter in a URI gets you to the wrong house, and sometimes to some very interesting material, lucky Jenn. So perhaps Jennifer should make a kind donation to the LPC….even people like me get a little pocket money for sending a friend to car salesperson or a real estate agent….and then there are those people called “Lobbyists” and could you name that guy(s) who wrote $320,000.00 words for a non tendered contract for our soon to be ex-finance minister Flaherty. Perhaps his/hers URL was http://www.wordsforFMunderthetable.con
By the way even before midnight it was off the front page.
This is much apprehension over nothing.
Dion will not be the next P.M. and his replacement will revamp the “green shaft” plan as be unrecognizable.
By Duane W on 06.23.08 11:37 pm
The idiot oracle has spoken . All hail the idiot !
Someone was requesting a link to Dion’s launch speech of The Green Shift.
http://www.femmeverte.blogspot.com/ has found it and posted it at her blog:
http://ca.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=AEB06DA71023E70E
Garth, I think you seriously underestimate partisanship and overestimate maturity in Canadian politics at the moment.
Sure, for the first 5 days or so, Green Shift Inc got increased traffic. I discovered it myself and found it interesting. But then the some Blogging Tories got an idea. They posted Ms. Wright’s phone number on the web and suggested people phone her to ask what her connection was with the Liberal Party.
A few hours later people were reporting she was upset but wondering if there would be legal action. Some callers might even have suggested it, who knows? Other bloggers reported negative answers when they asked her or the company about taking legal action. But, sure enough, a few more hours and there were confirmed reports of legal action.
Now, are Blogging Tories really incapable of distinquishing between a company and a LPC plan? I doubt it. But I think they are capable of stirring up trouble and harrassing a company if it serves their political purpose. It reminds me of the blogging tories phoning up the Pakistan representative to ask what Pakistan’s reaction was to Dion’s words. There is also the fact that even senior Tory cabinet ministers chose to mock what ever they could about the Liberal plan, including its name. This is how the Harper Conservatives choose to do politics. In this atmosphere, anyone who is connected in any way whatsoever with a Liberal target is a potential victim. You need to understand this and not assume domain name issues mean the same they meant five years ago. Five years ago it would have simply been increased traffic. Now we have talking oil blobs and a PM who likes to work up a crowd with screwing and the Blogging Tories follow suit and don’t mind acting like they can’t tell a company from a political party.
Sure, you might be on the right side of the law (the company has tried for years to get this name as a registered trademark with no success and other companies have been using the same name) but you are on the wrong side of the optics on this and need to do something.
“This comes with a new poll claiming the Green Shift initiative has the potential to vault Liberals into government. ”
Then you guys should not have sat on your hands during the last confidence. You could have been selling your plan to us in an election. But, I guess, you guys are scared of it as well.
So let’s examine the poll numbers:
“But once the policy was explained to respondents, the Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey found, close to half – 47 per cent – liked the idea, while 39 per cent said they were opposed. ”
Hardly a ringing endorsement. Let’s give it a week or two for it to sink in.
“Two-thirds of Liberals, 59 per cent of New Democrats, 62 per cent Parti Quebecois supporters and 48 per cent of Green Party supporters said they were in favour of the policy – all, except for the Green Party, by wide margins. ”
Less than 60% of Liberals supported it. You would have thought that closer to 100% of Liberals would have supported. Not exactly a ringing endorsement by the Liberal own.
sick, low and undignified by Harry…
looking in the mirror again?
To win in court the plaintiff will probably need to prove damages, and also prove that the Liberal plan somehow infringes on her ability to do business.
There are lots of duplicate uses of trademarks. How it plays out…. who knows?
I suspect that the Liberal Party obtained legal advice on the possibility of a legal challenge, and the probability of success of that challenge.
Bottom line, I was just seconding someone else’s true observation.. and wondering how come we see so much deception coming from the right wing. There may be something to it, and I think that too, is worth discussing. It’s obvious to the rest of us.
By barb the proof-reader on 06.23.08 12:26 am
Barb,
Perhaps the following give you some insight into what Leasa is and where she’s coming from. As long as she is an instrument of those who threaten democracy, decency and compassion she bears watching. She has many faces and works diligently at deception.
You must be relatively new to this blog or perhaps you simply ignored many of Leasa’s postings . Maybe you missed my posting in response to another of Leasa’s rants, toward the end of January. If so, to give you a little more background, please see the following. Hope this helps to clear things up.
Leasa,
Your response is dripping with hypocrisy. Odd that you should refer to hate, especially after you made it clear from your diatribe of 03.27.07 7:47pm., that you hate anything and everything liberal going back decades and having little, if anything, to do with the present situation. From a later posting you attempt to use the tainted blood scandal as justification for your hatred. It is indeed regrettable that you lost a dear friend, apparently due to tainted blood, and for that you have my sincere condolences. Yet from your recent postings you indicated hatred for Trudeau, as well, and he predates the tainted blood scandal. Your hatred must run really deep. Otherwise how could you imply that Trudeau was a Nazi? Is there no limit to the depths that you will sink? You, Leasa, owe the Trudeau family an apology.
You said, “When I insult it is a response in kind. Otherwise I don’t go there.” Nothing could be further from the truth. When a lady referred to Harper as a dictator (In the broad sense, an opinion shared by many) you called her “Shit for brains” and told her to “get stuffed”. Since she did not insult you personally that was hardly a “response in kind”.
Your track record for “treating people with respect”, especially women with differing political views, leaves a lot to be desired. You won’t win over the women’s vote that way.
Your “warm wishes” would be appreciated if they were not pretentious and insincere and sometimes dripping with sarcasm.
To give you some idea of where I am coming from, I was brought up to respect and admire people who were genuine and to be wary of those who were not. Of you, Leasa, I am wary. Further, I have never heard any of the many very fine people I have had the pleasure to know, friends , relatives and colleagues, alike, claim that they were “nice” or that they didn’t hate anyone. They didn’t have to. Over the years I learned to be wary of those who did make such claims, especially if they made them repeatedly. I don’t know of anyone who gained respect simply by begging for it.
Finally, if you regard criticism as insulting that is your problem. If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Almost everyone, once explained, likes this plan. You’re right, no wonder the CPC is running scared now, what a brilliant tactical move and all the while putting Canada first and not party. How refreshingly Canadian.
Shame on you and the Liberal party for smearing, even attacking poor Jennifer Wright, owner of Green Shift™ … and trying to make her political roadkill.
As for your veiled threat to determine how Jennifer votes, that is sick, low and undignified .. but that only reveals your fear that ‘green shift’ does not belong to the Liberal party.
You should apologize to Jennifer Wright of the original and only legitimate Green Shift™ …!!!!
By Harry S on 06.23.08 11:36 pm
Shame on you Harry for advocating the assination of Mr. Dion, just because you have deemed he should be political roadkill.
You should apologize to Mr. Dion of the only legitimate Federal Liberal Party Leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You could have re-named the website and the plan to more closely reflect the reality it represents. I believe “The Green Shaft” would have been more appropriate. And we all know the only “green” that will be impacted is how much of it will get sucked out of the Canadian economy and pockets of other Canadians as the LPC does yeoman’s work to make Canada uncompetative in the global marketplace…..brilliant!!! Launch the Liberals into government????? Sometimes I can’t imagine you believe the stuff you write here.
“Amazing what happens when you screw everyone”
Isn’t that what Harry S was trying to say yesterday?
SCREW YOU …!!!
— SCREW YOU …!!!
SCREW YOU …!!!
…SCREW THAT …!!!
Surely your’re not arguing Harry S is prescient? I have him tabbed as a mani[a]c-depressive.
PM confuses bullying and leadership
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/447680
“Those still uncomfortable with the sudden ubiquity of the F-word will be relieved Harper ratcheted down his debasement of Stéphane Dion’s carbon plan to the prediction that it would “screw everybody.” But whether driven by fear or reflex, it’s the response of a schoolyard bully who would rather trade punches than compare ideas.”
Incidentally, Leasa’s port-a-potty is broken … SECOND TIME THIS WEEK.
http://www.chiangmainews.com/images/news/elephantpoo_l.gif
It appears that all the hype about the URI has caused only more to read and post their positive support for M. Dion and the Liberals….I am most pleased with the vast amount who say in part: call it what you will, but please get on with it, while others said they just looked in to see what the fuss was all about (obvious Internet savoy) and said sounds like a good plan, lets hear more. News is news, so thanks Jennifer and many checked your site out also and had good words and asked you to join Dion to help all Canadians. Will you?
My advice, Garth – lose the chippy tone towards Con trolls and everyone else for that matter. The Green Shift policy is too important to simply slough off with snappy one-liners. You owe it to your readers – and your leader – to explain the details and answer questions respectfully. At the moment, I’m finding your relentlessly “smart mouth” a little off-putting. (Of course, a little levity once in a while doesn’t hurt!)
You know, I wish the Conservatives under Harper gave any Canadian half as much consideration as was shown to Jennifer by the Liberals as far as notice or consultation in regards to decisions that will affect their business or their personal life.
The Conservatives under Harper have given us nothing but smear, attack and blame. They have aligned themselves with the failed policies of George W Bush and marched in lock step with them.
Our cost of living has soared and almost doubled under Harper and his Conservative brand and yet somehow that is not their fault?
Isn’t it time for a reality check? Under Harper and his Conservatives we have lost hundereds of thousands of jobs, inflation is out of sight, and still Harper and his government have no plan to take back control of our economy or our environment, or the ownership of our country.
The Conservative Party under Harper are in POWER right now. This is their opportunity to show Canadians their ability to lead us in difficult times?
Where is the plan? Where is the leadership? Or are they just going to blame others and co-opt their minions to use the courts to try and embarrass and humiliate and put down instead of lifting us up and leading us into Canada’s future, united as a nation?
I went to ”that other” site;
What I saw left me UNCONQUERED …
Q1–”What is the program?”
A1–”Temporarily under construction”…
Q2–”Who’s part of the program?”
A2–”In Progresss..Currently undergoing analysis”
Q3–”What’s happening to everyone that was greenshifting?”
A3–Click One–PDF file…Commercial References…Currently 25 pages, final listing ‘Werewolf Coffee, Revelstoke,BC’
Note: Just the name will keep you awake!
A3–Click 2…”or here if you would like to learn about what we did to achieve this feat.” THIS CLICK DON’T WORK … I.E., IS UNCLICKABLE, and appears to be “crashed” like Leasa’s Porta-Potty malfunction.
Site Review:
Would probably DISAPPOINT everyone EXCEPT Harry S (mani[a]c-depressive), Leasa (busted Porta-Potty) or Catherine (Absent for mental exam).
REDEEMING MERITS? NONE!
By Jim Johnston on 06.23.08 11:38 pm
Every time I see his name, hear him mentioned in the ‘news,’ I offer up a solitary, sombre, Second Finger Salute in recognition of his Studebaker Onan Pull-Motor Division … self-generated lies from a FINK OF THE FIRST WATER.
You’re GREEN and that’s GOOD, JIM. Can you get MY NAME on Stevie Harper’s list of “people he intends to sue”… Repeat,
…SUE … Not his insanely crazy idea about SCREWING EVERYONE. Gotta go, I’ve called in the Disaster Resolution Team for Leasa’s Port-A-Potty.
I approve of the direction you’re going in with the Green Shift, Garth. It’s unfortunate that the Liberals apparently didn’t consult anyone familiar with intellectual property laws in Canada.
You need to understand that this is not just about a website URL. This is trademark infringement. Green Shift has established a brand, and the Liberals have just stolen that brand from the original owners.
The fact that Ms. Telford thought that Green Shift would be pleased at all the extra web traffic only shows that the organizers did not consult anyone familiar with intellectual property in Canada. CIPO has an easy to use trademark database – any responsible marketing professional would search this database before deciding on a new brand.
They have you dead to rights, Garth. Political parties are not above IP laws. You should negotiate immediately for a license to the trademark, or you might face an embarrassing cease-and-desist order.
This is much apprehension over nothing.
Dion will not be the next P.M. and his replacement will revamp the “green shaft” plan as be unrecognizable.
By Duane W on 06.23.08 11:37 pm
Spoken by a true & red grit…LMAO…
And now Warren Kinsella is openly pleading — begging — to be appointed to run the Tory War Room. That could be a bigger problem for you guys.
Have a damn fine recipe for Vichyssoise (cold potato and leak soup)with cream .
INGREDIENTS
* 2 leeks, chopped
* 1 onion, chopped
* 2 tablespoons unsalted butter
* 3/4 cup thinly sliced potatoes
* 2 1/3 cups chicken stock
* salt to taste
* ground black pepper to taste
* 1 1/8 cups heavy whipping cream
Enjoy Pyoter .
PS: You can also add some cucumber and parsley if you wish .
By Men With Hats on 06.23.08 7:58 pm
Thanks, you mad hatter you! I checked the asset backed commercial paper listing [income trusts] for my name this morning … and, APPARENTLY, I am now and forever in EVERYBODY’S DEBT.
Did you hear about the disaster down on the peninsula last night? It seems several cars and houses were caught up in a “SLUDGE SLIDE” caused by Leasa’s Port-A-Potty crash. Her ASStrological reading for today;
“YourAnus is what broke it, Leasa.”
The Greenshift company is making us all aware of positive things that companies and coalitions can do being a force for good in this world without resorting to the type of non-solutions that this Carbon tax offers Canadians.
There are alternatives, and that is encouraging.
Moved from the previous forum.
“What you forget is that in a democracy the body politic is the state: we are the state.” –C. B. Innes.
“Yes, the “body politic is the state” in a democracy, but the government is not necessarily the body politic when it imposes solutions that offend a good number of the “we” who compose the body politic.”
But the body politic selects the government as representative of the state. In a democracy there will always be a number of those that are “offended” by the solutions to problems but it is an obligation of citizenship to accept it.
‘You may be happy to see your agenda imposed by a government that you agree with, but don’t confuse that with “we are the state.”’
One does not have to agree with any government on all issues. One can accept specific solutions or directions. In this case, I prefer the direction set by the Green Party and the Liberals over the direction suggested by the Conservatives and the NDP.
“Don’t forget that every dictator had his supporters who benefitted from ceraian state-sponsored solutions.”
The same can be said for any political leader or party in a democracy.
“The government and the state are not one and the same, and we are talking about governments who impose certain solutions and certain moralities on the whole body politic which are offensive to many.”
The government represents the state. You are confusing government with political parties. This seems to be a major error that most ideological conservatives make. The problem is that political parties are private organizations that have been created to control the state. Since they are “private” they do not really represent the body politic, only a minor segment of that body.
“Government programs can only change externals, but not the human condition, and yet you seem to have great faith in government control more than in the dignity of the human person.”
As a traditional conservative I believe in the importance of “community.” Your traditional liberalism puts individualism first. That leads to a disrespect for those who see themselves as part of an organic whole. In essence, your philosophy belongs to the liberal and not the conservative tradition.
‘“We are the state” means little in a culture of independent, individualistic, autonomous individuals.’
Is that the kind of society that you prefer? What happens in this kind of culture is that greed, isolation, crime, hatred, and other negative anti-social behaviour becomes the norm as well. I would be very lonely and unhappy if I lived in that kind of a society.
You only justify government imposed solutions in this case because you happen to agree with the policy, not because you speak for the body politic any more than I do.
We are being treated like Pavlov’s dogs here were human behaviour is be modified by the social engineering of the state, where the state decides what is right for the individual, and engages in behaviour modificaion by a stimulus of rewards and punishments.
Human beings are better than that.
By sheila on 06.23.08 10:24 pm
Garth:
Unfortunate, but this time your party blew it. The names are just too similar. Find a new name – apologize profusely – (sackcloth and ashes are always a nice touch) and get the debate on the meat of the policy proposal underway in earnest.
This is a lesson to us all in this digital age – it is just too damn quick and easy to get a blooper out there. point … click … point … click … doubleclick … bingo, you now have egg on your face. We are always in such a rush these days that we far too often don’t think things through.
Sir John A wasn’t called Old Tomorrow because he was a stupid man (chuckle)
Why would you go on the attack on this concern? As a small business owner/investor yourself you know full well that this is not simply about a website domain. Your representation above is unfair and misleading.
I came to this blog after reading this story in the Globe and Mail. The story is a much better representation. Not to say the least being that she did not just decide to sue – she mentioned as much on the first contact.
To answer other comments … not every lawsuit is about libel. This one is for damages. A she has to prove is added cost or lost revenue. As a small business she has added cost if she is answering a lot of phone calls due to the Liberal policy release. She has lost opportunity cost for the same. She also has lost revenue if existing contracts are at risk due to perceived party affliliation (a bias on the part of her customers, not her!).
This is not about her own personal party affliliation. This is simply business and you know it!
Change it to the “Green Shaft”. That should avoid any copyright/trademark issues.
You political partisan hack. You guys mess up a legitimate business operation that “likes to make money” and you turn it into a political stunt.
You obviously haven’t run a business, Garth. Do you think a “a small Toronto-based company” would have the resources to deal with the inundation of web hits and phone calls on a national level and still be able to serve their clients?
You are so arrogant that you can’t even apologize. But then again, you knew exactly what you were doing, planned it and executed it. They are just collateral damage in the shaft.
“Maybe an enterprising journalist should ask the owner, Jennifer Wright, how she votes. I’m betting it ain’t Liberal.” And if she doesn’t vote liberal then we really don’t care. We’ll trash their company then give them a slap before the nation on the way down.
“And now it wants to sue?” You bet!! You pretty much set up their case for them on your blog entry. You can probably expect a court order not to delete anything from your website, including the partisan comments that will be posted. You will have your hands full today meticulously scrutinizing all the posts and deleting many.
Garth
You arrogant corrupt Liberal, as if making money is a crime, and being put out by your bullshit green tax shaft is her fault.
You are an corrupt arrogant man and you and your corrupt liberal green tax shaft are goint to get slaughtered at the polls in the next election.
Guess what?I don’t vote for Liberal corruption either.
Bring on the election tough guy!
Steve
Errrr Harry, Jennifer Wright doesn’t own the trademark to “Green Shift”. It is not a registered trademark in Canada. Oh she has started the trade marking process (back in 2005) but has been unsuccessful in asserting her legal claim.
I suggest you actually check the facts instead of making them up.
Ah – so now we go from debating the policy to attacking it’s name, and any trademark issues that may be involved. What a(n) (un)surpising move by our Conservative partisan friends.
Some sober thought from one of the greatest comedians of our time. This will not go over well with the tree hugging Liberals but it will give some pause for thought.
“We’re so self-important. So self-important. Everybody’s going to save something now. “Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails.” And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet, we don’t even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven’t learned how to care for one another, we’re gonna save the fucking planet?
I’m getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I’m tired of fucking Earth Day, I’m tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren’t enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don’t give a shit about the planet. They don’t care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don’t. Not in the abstract they don’t. You know what they’re interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They’re worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn’t impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We’ve been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we’ve only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we’re a threat? That somehow we’re gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that’s just a-floatin’ around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles…hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages…And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet…the planet…the planet isn’t going anywhere. WE ARE!
We’re going away. Pack your shit, folks. We’re going away. And we won’t leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet’ll be here and we’ll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet’ll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet’s doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet’s doing. You wanna know if the planet’s all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we’re gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, ’cause that’s what it does. It’s a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?” Plastic…asshole.
I suggest you actually check the facts instead of making them up.
By Zorpheous on 06.24.08 8:50 am
DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK HARRY S WILL DO THAT?
The WebSite appears to be a work-in-progress, with evidence it has been for some time now. Other than the PDF listing of ’social climbers’ wishing to have their tradenames on another ‘click,’ I really don’t see a heckuva lot for a client-base generating revenues.
See:
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.24.08 7:19 am
There is a USA company called GreenShift that has registered the name GreenShift.
They claim the following:
GreenShift’s patents and proprietary green technologies are the sole property of GreenShift Corporation. GreenShift and the “GreenShift Logo” and the tagline “Natural Solutions” are the registered trademarks of GreenShift Corporation. We believe that our intellectual property rights are protected to the fullest extent afforded by law. Other featured words or symbols, used to identify the source of goods and services, are the trademarks of their respective owners.
Garth: Did the Liberal party brass contact this company too, to determine if their registered trademarks were in fact registered international?
To achieve this level brand recognition would have taken a marketing budget bigger than gross sales.
And now it wants to sue?
You DAMN RIGHT Garth. As a small businessman, who has come up with several creative and meaningful company names I would too!
Let me explain a little bit of reality to you and the Liberal Party. When someone creates something it is with pride, and ethical honour, and they guard those sacred attributes vigorously because it is their PERSONAL reputation associated with that ‘brand’.
Here are two examples to ponder. A friend, decades back now, started a company called ‘Videos ‘R Us’. He was in business long before ‘Toys R’ Us’ but their heavy handed corporate legal thugs sued him and put him out of business because he couldn’t afford the fight. I have boycotted Toys ‘R Us ever since. He was a good businessman, a good citizen, and never sold imported lead painted crap like Toys ‘R Us has. he was just a small neighbohood business providing a much wanted service at a fari price. They even sicked the I.R.S. on him to harass him.
Then I went through a similar experience. I had a very unique company name, and some schmuck neighbor who worked for a mega-corp was jealous because I had my own business and he was a corporate slave. So, he tells his superiors I am infringing on their corporate trademark. BULLSHIT!
My business had nothing to do with their’s, and the name, while having a commonly used technical term in it, as did theirs, was not an infringement. My lawyer got their BS complaint quashed faster than mosquito, but it still cost my company $1,000 to protect our name.
So, when we little guys get pissed we might just bite your feet off. Maybe that’s where the mysterious feet in B.C. are coming from…mega-corp SFB’s that messed with the wrong person.
See, to us it is not merely a campaign slogan, it is our baby, and we get really tired of arrogant and rude organizations who think size is everything. BTW, if they had wanted your branding assistance they would have welcomed it, not responded by threatening a lawsuit. You claim you talked to them and then drop the rest of the story. What did they say Garth? ‘No’ perhaps?
You retort that you ‘gave them something’ is totally BS. You took something they did not wish to have taken. This is the problem with today’s thinking where consumerism and money are God.
Bottom line…the Liberal Party was WRONG to do it, and need to own up to the fact, or will this be another typical Oddawahaha slip and slide excuse game? PMJC would be so proud to know his party still ‘plays with their balls’ when serious attention is the order of the day. What was that sign on Highway 11 about PMJC? Oh yes, ‘Too arrogrant for too long!’
I guess she is a rotten selfish person for not wanting to be viewed as being affiliated with any political party.
By Bob on 06.23.08 11:33 pm
I think that is a fair statement, being an independent is not looked upon with great favour by political parties. I must say, on this site, I have been given the opportunity to advocate for an independent government in Canada.
Oh my God! ‘Go screw a dead bear’. who would even think about the repulsive thought. And worse yet, discuss seniors supplement with this concocted language.
Shame on you who ever you are, you’re thinking is disgusting.
Way to go Dion and the Green Shift. Sounds like a great plan.
Once again, Garth just doesn’t get it.
She does not want to be associated with the Federal Liberal Party of Canada.
When customers see the relationship, they think of corruption.
Not good for business.
==
I think this Green Shift company should calm down. Here we have a national political movement in line with the ideals put forward by this company and yet the are now becoming one of the forces of resistance.
Along with GHGs, does anyone smell hypocrisy in the air?
As Liberals we need to emphasize that Mr. Dion’s Green shift is his immediate measure but it will also be followed by a cap and trade policy that takes much longer to put in place. This will negate the NDP position. One plan does not do it all. We will also have incentives to help people go green.
DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK HARRY S WILL DO THAT?
See:
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.24.08 7:19 am
By PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.24.08 9:08 am
No, I don’t expect Harry or any of the Deathstar Trolls to do that. Why that would be like being fair, balanced and honest, which is something they definitely can not do since it takes all the wind out the sails of their talking points.
Nope, it is easier for people like Harry S. and the CPC Trolls is lie about the truth, but you can’t blame them too much; after all, they are only following the example set out by their leaders in the CPC.
Call them, ask them to put a reference to your site on their web page, and give them $5k for their trouble. Should be simple enough.
Garth,
I must commend you on the exellent job you are doing to maintain a balance between freedom of speech and common decency. This forum has developed into not only a valuable exchange of differing points of view, but also a source of valuable source of information. It is obvious that many of your foes, which include some that post here, would like the shut you down, especially now that politics in Canada are on the verge of moving in a direction that promises to benefit Canadians as a whole. Because of the shear volume of responses I expect the effort needed to maintain a reasonable standard has become gargantuan. I hope you will continue to believe that it is worth the effort.
I am sure I speak for the vast majority of those that post here and access this site when I urge you to stay the course.
Well done , Garth!
We are being treated like Pavlov’s dogs here were human behaviour is be modified by the social engineering of the state, where the state decides what is right for the individual, and engages in behaviour modificaion by a stimulus of rewards and punishments.
Human beings are better than that.
By sheila on 06.23.08 10:24 pm
Please tell Mr. Harper to stop then!
Thinsgs will really advance when no one cares who gets the credit.
I stand with Dion.
Catherine: Only you would say that 2/3’s of Liberals supporting the Green Shift is less than 60%. Where the hell did you study math? At Jim Flaherty’s school of finance???
Hey Garth and others, just heard on the CBC radio that farmer who is using wind-power on his poultry farm is now marketing his eggs as produced by Green Power. Things are starting roll, the shift is on….perhaps M. Dion will be up for the next Nobel Prize…who knows, keep up the good work…are children and grandchildren need all the help we can give them…time is running out and the younger generation knows it. Reports in the G&M that states the rich and well to do are worst offenders…so why not a shift to user pay and we who try save.
You can probably expect a court order not to delete anything from your website, including the partisan comments that will be posted. You will have your hands full today meticulously scrutinizing all the posts and deleting many.
By Janice on 06.24.08 8:46 am
Will wrestle for Kool-Aid … Bring it ON! Other than that, you haven’t offered anything relevant to the discussion here. As another has already observed, C.R.A.P./S.H.I.T.’s are more intent on examining whether a site registration/ownership has been intentionally compromised … RATHER THAN;
a) Acknowledging the current government has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING meaningful on the environment file, OR
b)Demonstrated a willingness to participate in the dialoque through debate or further elaboration of existing policies [???] How can you LOGICALLY argue that NO POLICY is TOO COMPLEX to illustrate or define.
c)WAKE THE BOY[S], BIRDY [BOO!] BAIRD, and the PM up … Make like the egg-marketing board and get cracking. Don’t be like Leasa, looking back, bemoaning a sludge slide.
http://corrigan.ca/april22-07.jpg
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20071025/450_harper_071025.jpg
Unless, Janice, your VERY POOR ATTEMPT to paralyze discussions here due to YOUR PERCEPTION OF LEGAL IMPLICATIONS, is merely another attempt to deflect committed/interested participants from the subject. If you’re attempting to defend your IPR through the merit of your argument … YOU’VE FAILED.
The Liberal green shift isn’t a tax, it is a royalty. It is a flat cost per tonne of carbon.
It will take wealth from the west and put it into the east’s pockets and into Federal Liberal social engineering projects. It is stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, plain and simple, and is the most appalling example of exploiting a minority in order to bribe a minority of taxpayers.
I really do expect that those people the Liberals are bribing with other people’s money realize they will be next before they go too far.
That was a nice speech. Now explain how any of that is true. The tax on carbon will raise an amount equal to what is returned to Canadians, with tax brackets reduced for more than 80% of working Canadians. Oh yeah, and it will address – finally – the issue of climate change. Did that slip your mind? — Garth
While I think the debate over the name is interesting it does take away from the real issue.
Conservatives are screaming about the rights of private concerns to control the use of certain words and phrases. In my opinion the ability of private individuals or corporations to “trademark” or copyright words and phrases is a violation of “freedom” of expression.
The delicious irony of all of this is found in the Q&A segment of the real green shift website.
Perhaps Jennifer is a tad perturbed at the Liberals using her trademarked name to try and Green Wash themselves.
• What is Green Washing?
Green Washing is what Green Shift is out to prevent – that is companies who are trying to make themselves look green when they in fact are not. Unfortunately this is extremely common; companies who think of environmental improvements as just another type of marketing game. Some common concerns include the lack of regulations and the blatant misuse of words like “biodegradable” and “environmental”, which are labelled on a slew of products that are anything but.
Further to JWP at 10:07, check out the following short essay:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=drury_24_4
I ask, who are the true manipulators of humans? Who are wont to use the noble lie, to comfort the suffering with platitudes but offer no succor, to blame the victims of an uneven economic order for their failure to compete, to revel in the expectation of the torments of the damned in the End Days?
Not I, nor would I imagine many progressive minded people who so willingly and patiently try to participate in a proactive dialogue with others on this board so generously provided by Mr. Turner.
By William hughes on 06.24.08 10:27 am
Do you view equalization in the same manner? The money that Harper used just before the election in Quebec, how did you view that?
I have posted positive comments in respect to Dion and this party on this blog. I absolutely despise Harper and his goon squad.
However Mr. Turner, today’s comment by you stands to change my opinion of the integrity of you and your party.
As a business man I can assure you that if you did to my company what your party appears to have done to greenshift.ca I would absolutely initiate legal action to protect my intellectual property. And I would without question seek damages from the Liberal Party.
The massive number of unsolicited hits that result from this apparent Liberal Party trademark infringement has cost greenshift.ca real dollars.
Web site hosting is bandwidth based as you surely know. The more visits a web site receives, the more it costs for hosting. Greenshift.ca is now likely paying out additional hosting expenses because of the Liberal party and their actions.
Secondly, it is ludicrous to suggest or imply that the additional hits on their web site is good for their business. I would venture to bet that none of the misdirected hits that their web site received led to orders or contracts for them. All it did is cost them money and it’s apparently the fault of the Liberal party.
Mr Turner, to attack the owner of the company as you have done here is in my opinion beneath contempt, and frankly it’s something I would more expect from Harper and his thugs and losers.
You owe Ms. Wright an apology in my opinion and in my opinion if you continue to handle this matter in the loathsome way that you are, you will be viewed as no different and no better than Harper and his thugs.
And you KNOW how most people view them.
Seriously, over the past year plus reading your blog I actually came to believe you were different Mr. Turner.
Was I THAT mistaken?
The number of hits does not increase a web site owner’s costs unless there is a pile of downloading, which eats up badwidth. That argument is spurious. As for this company, my assertion remains it have now been catapulted onto the national radar and I cannot help but think a year from now its order book will be fatter as a result. One would think a company dedicated to environmental stewardship would be happy to be associated with the only climate change strategy in Canada with guts and purpose. In addition, the Lib web site carried a disclaimer, and a pointer; the company was contacted in advance – and given a chance then to raise any concerns (it did not); and there is absolutely no commercial competition coming from the Dion Green Shift proposal. I fail to see where your angst comes from. BTW, I have been in independent business all my life, and in most endeavours would have loved to garner national publicity, at no cost, for my enterprise. For most entrepreneurs, this could be seen as quite the opportunity. — Garth
Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?” Plastic…asshole.
By Brian Wilson on 06.24.08 9:07 am
I don’t recall asking, ‘what is the purpose of life,’ or ‘why is the sky blue.’
We’ve seen Monty Python’s Life of Brian and, in fact, have our own Canadian version in 3 plain envelopes. “Tree-hugging” Liberals? If it’s like Woodstock revisited, I can get a ‘big Woody’ for that. It occurs to me, another of your namesake is slowly disintegrating from the mortal coil. He made great music … Too bad you don’t.
Bloomberg says 175,000 finance jobs at risk over the next year.
Canaccord analyst says Canadian inflation about to soar due to high oil prices now to be passed to the consumer.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
(This comment I make is before I look at the other comments).
I seem to me that this for Profit Company has forgot what they are in business for.
They had a great thing going to have more people; potential customers find out that they even exist. Negative advertising is not a good thing!
But they have completely blown the public’s good will by threatening to sue
over this similar, but still different mater. But one can sue, and be counter sued in this free country!
Did they start their business to make an honest buck? A person that deciding that suing might be a good idea to try and make more money (greed) is NOT!
It is NOT a good critical thinker that would come up with this idea.
If their lawyer told them it would be the thing to do, they need to start to think for themselves, and get a new lawyer fast!
(Or has someone given them, a brown cash filled envelope, like PMSH good friend Brian Mulroney, former PM, got for special services?)
If I were a shareholder/investor of the company I’d be asking some tuff question as to who thought suing was a good idea.
I now have a very bad taste in my mouth in regards to this’ for profit company’, as I think many others may do also.
(Too the for profit company, what were you thinking? Or were you thinking at all?
You’ve gone and done worse that blow a great advertising opportunity, by threatening to suing. I bet your receiving a lot of negative e-mails at this point?
The very last think you’d want to happen.)
It seem clear to me that a free thinking judge, that ‘the green shift’ is not exactly the same as your companies name, but if you don’t need free positive national advertisings, I wish you all the best. But just how good is your businesses produce and service with a thought process like that???
Just my too cents.
You can probably expect a court order not to delete anything from your website, including the partisan comments that will be posted. You will have your hands full today meticulously scrutinizing all the posts and deleting many.
By Janice on 06.24.08 8:46 am
———————
Janice
Will that include the Blogging Tories & other sites that posted this woman’s phone number encouraging people to call her?
Jim Bobby has an even better solution than my $5k one… why doesn’t the Liberal Party start placing all of it’s orders for disposable cups, napkins, etc. with this company? Strike a sole-source deal with them for a year.
Oh yeah, and it will address – finally – the issue of climate change. Did that slip your mind? — Garth
By William hughes on 06.24.08 10:27 am
Garth, Garth, Garth, Climate change is a myth. Ask them. The harperites. Any one of them.
(The uncapitalized above is no accident. He ain’t worth the trouble to shift key)
As for Green Shift, BRING IT ON!
My grand kids don’t need a dead world to try to live in.
By Greg W. Oakville on 06.24.08 11:08 am
Good to see you back, Greg.
Yesterday, you made a comment which intrigued us;
The PMSH CPC MP from Burlington Ontario, ‘I use to work for a very large oil Corporation.’ (His own words.)
By Greg W., Oakville on 06.23.08 4:09 pm
I assume you saw him on Cogeco. I haven’t seen the coverage. I do have his campaign literature from ‘04 and ‘06. I can find no reference to his ever having worked for an oil company. Did he mention a franchise operation like JiffyLube?
More, if you can recall it, please.
Some might suggest that Jennifer Wright and PMSH are in kahoots, but I don’t think that the PM is that smart.
It has more to do, as luck and fate would have it, with the misfortunes of M. Dion.
Mother Earth must be angry at the Liberals, and is not amused. Who can argue with the Great Mother Gaia is capricious and determines everything?
Why is she suing? I thought only Cons liked to file lawsuits?
[...]
By Dee on 06.24.08 12:41 am
There might be a tiny subtext from Stevie at the end of the cease-and-desist letter:
Brought to you by Canada’s New Government[tm].
“crazy” and “screwed” are simple memes that have been planted into the Canadian psyche. Give it time …
Oh sure, there is angst over global warming and saving the planet from Canada’s huge, tipping point 2% carbon footprint (China-24%, US-22%, EU-12%, India-8%, Russia-6%), but Canadians have not yet been educated about this imbalance … while the children have been insidiously inculcated with Suzuki-style propaganda.
By the time we have an election, perhaps Dion’s Green (Tax) Shift™ will have been relegated to the political ashbin.
And then there is Dion’s ’selling’ ability, but it seems that the Canadian Press/Decima has fully explained the Green Shift to Canadians and now the polls indicate Canadians back it .. now that it has been fully explained without Dion even venturing out. Perhaps Liberals should not have Dion go out to ’sell’ the Green Shift since the CP and Decima have done such a good job doing it for Dion ..!!!
… The tax on carbon will raise an amount equal to what is returned to Canadians, with tax brackets reduced for more than 80% of working Canadians. Oh yeah, and it will address – finally – the issue of climate change. Did that slip your mind? — Garth
………………………………..
Simple Question, Garth ….
Will the Dion Green Shift tax credits apply to Canadians across the board .. or .. will it be only applied on a provincial basis??
I ask this because if Albertans or Quebecers are more successful at reducing their carbon footprint than say Ontarians, shouldn’t they be rewarded moreso than Ontarians??
We are talking about GHG reductions as the objective .. aren’t we..??
In my opinion the ability of private individuals or corporations to “trademark” or copyright words and phrases is a violation of “freedom” of expression.
By C. B. Innes on 06.24.08 10:35 am
So do you think it would be fine if someone opened up a hamburger joint and called it McDonalds?
Some might suggest that Jennifer Wright and PMSH are in kahoots
By sheila on 06.24.08 11:37 am
I haven’t seen any suggestion by anybody other than yourself. You also misspelled cahoots which is a ‘hard C, not k.’ You would probably also make the same mistake when using the term ‘ca-ca,’ which is also a ‘hard C,’ … I criticized Rosie DiManno for her ‘ka-ka’ spelling once, and she at least had the decency to blame it on her editor. Who’re you trying to blame it on? PMO or PCO? Get it right because you do produce a whole lot of ca-ca!
Honestly Mr. Turner I am not trying to start a fight here but your statements are troubling me.
You said “The number of hits does not increase a web site owner’s costs unless there is a pile of downloading, which eats up bandwidth.”
This is patently untrue Mr Turner. Every single time someone visits your web page they DOWNLOAD the html (or php or whatever) data that results in them seeing your web page in their browser. As a consequence, if a million extra people mistakenly visit a site and simply view the home page, all graphics and html data residing on that home page are DOWNLOADED a million extra times and that costs the owner serious money. Everything that is downloaded counts, not just files. ALL data counts as being downloaded. If you want to argue that fact, I’ll let you know (whether you believe it or not) that I am an IT professional. Any IT geek will back up what I say. Ask one. You are mistaken Mr. Turner. Honestly you are. this is likely costing greenshift.ca real money.
As for your second statement, do you honestly believe that those who visited Ms. Wright’s web site by accident will now become customers? Is that what you are saying? All this publicity will result in business? That’s at the very best, doubtful in my opinion.
You also said that: “the company was contacted in advance – and given a chance then to raise any concerns (it did not)”
This is not what the Globe is reporting Mr. Turner. Here’s what the G&M has reported: “Ms. Wright said she warned Ms. Telford the Liberals could expect a lawsuit if they went ahead and used the name.”
Are you disputing what the G&M describes as Ms. Wright’s response? If so that’s fine and I accept that. I do hope that the Liberal party can back it up though, as the G&M article suggests that legal action might be coming.
As a life long business owner I also own several registered trademarks. Your statement that “there is absolutely no commercial competition coming from the Dion Green Shift proposal.” implies that if the alleged infringement is not in direct competition it isn’t infringement. This is untrue and disregards trademark law. Perhaps an illustration: How do you suppose Coca Cola would respond if I began selling “Coca Cola roofing shingles”? Obviously my roofing shingles could in no way be construed as commercial competition with a soft drink, right? Wanna bet they’d issue a cease and desist? You know they would.
Finally (and this is for those with limited knowledge in respect to Trademark law) according to my Intellectual Property lawyers, a trademark does not have to be registered in order to be protectable in law. Registration helps assert ownership but registration is not mandatory. If the owner can prove first use of the trademark and can prove that they continued to use the trademark since first use, they win. Registering helps do that since a formal registration date can be seen as absolute proof of ownership but it’s not mandatory to register a trademark to own one.
Seems to me the Liberal party is trying to say, yes we misappropriated their trademark but look how good things will work out for them because of it. That’s kind of like a thief stealing my wallet and then reminding me that by stealing my wallet he stopped me from using my credit cards and therefore saved me money. it just isn’t right.
Anyway, thank you for responding. I guess we agree to disagree.
I remain disappointed in this situation.
I still loathe and despise Harper and his goon squad though.
Garth:
You fucked up big this time!
I am eamiling the owner of Green Shift your arrogant dissmissive corrupt Liberal website for evidence of your contempt for anybody who does’nt vote Liberal
Bring on the election tough guy!!!
Idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank goodness our younger generation sees the world in a much different perspective than some ode fools who look at China, India and beyond. A old man once told me on his death bed, it is always different when it is you! So when global warming affects you be it skin cancer, fire or flood it matters not what happens in China or even another province or city for that matter. Our children want us to at least try and do something and if one man can unite all Canadians to a common cause for the betterment of all (even those who may differ from the world’s educated minds farmers and fishermen) let’s have a plan and improve on such a plan (Green Shift) via adult debate and please bring constructive food for thought to the table. Heck the first computer was a mountain in size then many educated people began building on the process….and even those who sing the sad songs of doom and gloom do so on a computer by the www. world. Look forward think Green think Green Shift.
By Catherine on 06.24.08 5:15 am
By Harry S on 06.24.08 11:47 am
“Two-thirds of Liberals, 59 per cent of New Democrats, 62 per cent Parti Quebecois supporters and 48 per cent of Green Party supporters said they were in favour of the policy – all, except for the Green Party, by wide margins. ”
Less than 60% of Liberals supported it. You would have thought that closer to 100% of Liberals would have supported. Not exactly a ringing endorsement by the Liberal own.
I would think that in an election campaign, having a policy that is approved by 59% of the NDP, 62% of BQ, and 48% of the GP would have the Liberals rubbing their hands in anticipation. If ‘only’ 67% of Liberals are supporting it, I’m sure that’s a small price to pay. After all, if they are Liberal, that’s the way they will vote anyway.
Harry, you want to talk leadership and ’selling’? Tell me again, how good a job has Mr. Harper done in 2.5 years getting anyone else to follow him or buy what he is ’selling’?
Without debating the global warming issue per se, it is starting to look like the Conservatives are seriously on the wrong side of this issue. Regardless of it’s merit, people are moving towards positive environmental initiatives whether the Conservatives like it or not.
Popular support does not appear to be on the Conservatives side…
However, I’ll start believing that people are committed to this when the bottom falls out of the bottled water industry. I mean really, what is the carbon footprint of all those plastic bottles of water, anyway?
Brian Wilson has shown himself to be a disrespectful, fanatical neo-con.
His post should have been deleted altogether but maybe it was put on just to reveal what he is really about.
Comedy is funny. This is very crude and advocates an abandonment of responsible behaviour.
… the company was contacted in advance – and given a chance then to raise any concerns (it did not) … – Garth
Interesting you say this and yet the interview from the Globe and Mail article indicates …
Ms. Wright recalls being told by the senior Liberal aide: “I just want to let you know that you’re going to be getting a lot of hits on the website.”
Ms. Wright said she warned Ms. Telford the Liberals could expect a lawsuit if they went ahead and used the name.
Sounds to me that she objected right from the get-go. So either you are lying or you are calling her a liar. Which is it?
I stand by my earlier comment … this is not a concern that should have been commented on. Nothing good or fruitful can come from this form of discourse. Leave it to the affected and involved parties to sort out.
Sheila,
Here is a good example of how a governing party seeped in the kind of ideology you accept in practice ends up in a contradictory position.
After the court ruled that the government silencing the members of the Wheat Board and prohibiting them from putting forth the opposing side of the debate on the issue of private verses co-operative marketing Harper told a crowd: “We’ll continue to fight in Parliament. We’ll continue to fight in the legislature. But the bottom line is this, mark my words: Western farmers want this freedom, and they are going to get it. And anyone who stands in their way is going to get walked over.”
We know that all western farmers do not support his position so he is governing for one specific group of farmers and the large multi-nationals who want control over them.
He is willing to usecoercive power of the state to “walk over” those opposed to his position just as he illegally silenced the farmer elected members of the Wheat Board.
His position is more representative of a dictatorship than a democracy.
Harper’s Imperial Guard and Environment Gladiators
http://www.legionsix.org/gladiatorsprepare.jpg
Pictured, second from left [facing], Birdy [BOO!] Baird after ablutions and cleanup for his incontinence problem. Pictured, second from right, his standby, PARIAH Pierre poi-poi Boticelli Boy Poilievre, who shares the incontinence*** problem, but is not afforded ‘change-up time,’ thereby making it necessary to wear a camouflage colour, closer to the physical nature of the problem.
It’s not at all like Leasa’s problem, in that she does “give a s**t” but in a totally indiscriminating way, all over the place, AS A SLUDGE SLIDE.
The remedy for the entire Imperial Guard and Gladiators has been offered through a product called DEPENDS.
***Incontinence problem described as a ‘loose sphincter coupled to excessive verbosity.’
Check-List for sufferers …
http://www.depend.com/images-new/uwearSuper_280×280.jpg
Taken from:
http://www.depend.com/products/individual/superplus.asp
Which was originated by Harper’s Firewall concept, taken from:
http://www.legionsix.org/wall2.jpg
Noteworthy:
“Apparently, this line failed to pacify the region as intended, and further steps were needed.”
By Harry S on 06.24.08 11:47 am
They’ll see a decent and committed man, dedicated to serving for the good of the country.
It doesn’t surprise me you would attempt to disparage/discredit his efforts. BTW, What’s your riding?
Hint for you … I’ve NEVER BEEN a defeatist Maritimer looking for a handout. In fact, there are NONE of those, except in Harper’s schizoprenic imagination.
It appears Harry S and Observant share the same empty cranial cavity, as this posting on Kinsella’s site exactly 2 minutes before posting on Garth’s is word-for-word identical. I guess the fresh talking points have been distributed to the puppets for public dissemination/obfuscation. I guess Tory talking Points are the equivalent of a Red Bull rush.
To: Harry S at 06.24.08 11:47 am
To say nothing of how Canada’s manufacturers are sold on researching and building green tech for the rest of the world. Never mind Canada’s huge fossil fuel input/output ratio. To dismiss our moral obligations to being a good global citizen by questioning the motives of “gang green” and the science behind greenhouse gases is irresponsible.
Not to steal Mr. Turner’s Doom & Gloom thunder, but it stands to reason gasoline will inevitably hit $10-20/litre in the next decade. The economists see this is coming, along with $200+/bbl oil. One cannot deny the correlation between increasing the tax burden on carbon (read: fossil energy) consumption, relieving income tax burden (esp. on families and low-incomers), and spurring concrete research into green tech (read: non-oil tech). Doing this sooner, rather than later, is more advantageous. Gas prices are going to continue to climb, regardless. I want Canada to be selling the alternatives when the fuel prices become unbearable.
Oil and other non-renewable energy isn’t going away overnight. We will get there eventually, whether we sit back and let the economies of market float us to that inevitability or if we squeeze together a modicum of ingenuity and have the foresight to be ahead of the curve.
Canadians done it before…
Garth,
In your response to Ben, you wrote “the company was contacted in advance – and given a chance to raise its concerns (it did not)”
This is part of the story in the Globe:
Instead, Ms. Wright said the cheery caller was Katie Telford, the deputy chief of staff to Mr. Dion, the Liberal Leader, informing her that the Liberals were about to launch their own “green shift” plan.
Ms. Wright recalls being told by the senior Liberal aide: “I just want to let you know that you’re going to be getting a lot of hits on the website.”
Ms. Wright said she warned Ms. Telford the Liberals could expect a lawsuit if they went ahead and used the name.
“I said, more importantly, why would you do that to a nice, friendly, environmental organization?” Ms. Wright said.
There were no apologies from Liberals Monday, who noted the party had secured the rights to the domain name http://www.thegreenshift.ca: a slick-looking website that allows visitors to calculate how Mr. Dion’s plan to reduce greenhouse gases will affect their family finances. Ms. Wright’s website is http://www.greenshift.ca.
“What they’re doing is so blatantly unethical,” Ms. Wright said.
There appears to be a discrepancy between what you said to Ben and what Ms Wright said to the Globe? Did she not object from the beginning?
Please explain!
She said, she said. — Garth
Trademark registrations are usually held on specific designations of businesses. Green Shift Inc. provides products and services of an environmental nature. The Green Shift plan is about applying a price on carbon and shifting taxes away from income, investment and innovation and on to carbon emissions.
For the law suit to be successful I believe that the plantiff will need to prove that the use of Green Shift is of a similar business nature. It would up to a judge to decide. On the surface it appears that the use of the name is an ‘apples and oranges’ situation.
That was a nice speech. Now explain how any of that is true. The tax on carbon will raise an amount equal to what is returned to Canadians, with tax brackets reduced for more than 80% of working Canadians. Oh yeah, and it will address – finally – the issue of climate change. Did that slip your mind? — Garth
Where are you going to find bureaucrats that work for free if all the money is going to be returned to Canadians? How are green house gases going to be reduced when there is no incentive to since you are returning all the money anyway? Gas, energy are all things Canadians use and need. Even if they conserve, they still will use energy and get taxed for it unless they go back to the old days with candles and wood burning stoves.
By Brian Wilson on 06.24.08 9:07 am
One of my all time favourite Carlin routines. Right up there with his skit on flying and the Iraq War of 1991. performed at Radio City Music Hall, NYC
It will take wealth from the west and put it into the east’s pockets and into Federal Liberal social engineering projects. It is stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, plain and simple, and is the most appalling example of exploiting a minority in order to bribe a minority of taxpayers.
By William hughes on 06.24.08 10:27 am
Mr. Hughes
Exploiting a minority? According to Stats Canada 2006 1,801,610 people earned over $100,000.00 or more out of 24,113,140 income earners.
Therefore only 7.41% of wage earners would be considered rich or comfortable. The majority of income earners 92.59% earn from under $ 5000 to $ 99,999.
You sir have posted an appalling falsehood to present your narrow minded view of greed – the Conservative view of “keep you hands off of my stash”.
By William hughes on 06.24.08 10:27 am,
The question I have to ask you is who are you really defending?
In essence, you are defending the right of the petroleum industry to the free use of western air and western water to extract western resources and charge westerners all the traffic will bear for those same resources. As far as I can see, this is not defending the west or its people but the exploitation of the west by those who own and control an industry.
Somethings smells about this tempest in a teacup. First, the company hasn’t got the rights to the words Green Shift: the words are all over the internet and the world. Second, one company official said ‘no worries’, and third, all of a sudden it’s become a problem over a week after The Green Shift launch. Smells like monkey poo to me.
I wonder if certain people haven’t ‘got’ to her through harassing phone calls, or even perhaps an operative or two ‘visiting’ her office bearing gifts a la Cadman.
I’ll be watching this story closely and watching Green Shift Inc. client list and contracts.
One never knows when a Green Shift could get the Greed Shaft treatment courtesy of the Cons and minions.
Still, it would be nice if Green Shift Inc. decides to share the care for the environment with others… who knows, it might vault the Inc. into heights of business it only dreamed of two weeks ago.
Or perhaps sink it to lows never expected if GS Inc. is found to be in collusion with the Cons.
Interesting times.
Garth,
I don’t think you should be asking if the owner of this company votes Liberal.
Just maybe you should be asking yourself why the owner of an environmentally responsible company DOESN’T vote Liberal.
Also, sir, it is good to know your position. Those who do not vote Liberal are not entitled to the same protections under the law that Liberal voters are. Just nice that you clarified that for us.
This traffic, headlines, notoriety and attention cost the company nothing. To achieve this level of brand recognition would have taken a marketing budget bigger than, I suspect, gross sales.
And now it wants to sue?
Maybe an enterprising journalist should ask the owner, [citizen G], how she votes. I’m betting it ain’t Liberal.
No need to politicize an ordinary citizen. I think there is a good argument for the Liberals to say a legitimate difference exists between “Th e Green Shift Inc.” and the “Green Shift political platform” without having to resort to hackery. To speculate on voting behavior is low, who knows maybe it’s a vote for the Greens (which I could respect). It is a shame that this company wouldn’t take advantage of such opportunity but that’s up to them. Not to judge (I don’t know the whole story), but I think an apology might be in order, and blog revision to take off a tax paying business person’’s name. It is hard to compromise when you’re being attacked.
I would not have known her name (along with millions of other people) if she had not gladly given a series of media interviews. — Garth
And then there is Dion’s ’selling’ ability, but it seems that the Canadian Press/Decima has fully explained the Green Shift to Canadians and now the polls indicate Canadians back it .. now that it has been fully explained without Dion even venturing out. Perhaps Liberals should not have Dion go out to ’sell’ the Green Shift since the CP and Decima have done such a good job doing it for Dion ..!!!
By Harry S on 06.24.08 11:47 am
Are you conceding defeat, Harry? Sure sounds like it.
Unbelievable that the liberal party is being sued! Talk about a lack of vision! But one other thing Garth. Once again, and this is using the greenshift calculator, a family of four with only one earner as opposed to two, is getting screwed by the tax system! I punched in $72,000 per year (2 kids under 18) for a couple, and then tried it with $36,000 each, and the dual earner family comes out further ahead by about $400 I believe! When will this insanity stop??? Ok, it’s only $400, but it seems every time the govt. tinkers with our tax system, families with a stay at home parent get screwed!
Aside from that gripe though, a visionary plan by an intelligent leader. It’s about bloody time!
This is too funny. Call the wambulance, the Liberals have hurt feelings.
Don’t you find it a tad ironic that the Liberals are getting smacked with trademark infringement right after going after Stephen Taylor for the same for his parody sight:
http://theshiftygreen.ca
http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2008/06/the-liberal-party-and-alleged-trademark-infringement/
You Liberals are a joke.
Broil King, the Canadian made high quality gas barbecue, BroilKing, the American made high quality electric griddle – no one seems to be arguing about the names that are differentiated only by a space. What’s the problem?
On the economic side:
It would appear, with the way the economy is going, with consumers to be hit with rising prices because of the high oil prices and the costs involved in moving goods about, unless the CPC comes out with some significant tax cuts within the next few months, it will force many seniors and low income people to vote for the Green shift just to make ends meet in the short term. These rising costs will be there prior to the green shift taking effect but low income people will be forced to take the tax cuts just to stay afloat.
There appears to be no urgency on the part of the Harper government to address this issue, somewhat short sighted politically I believe. It leaves one with a sense they either don’t care, or have emptied the cupboard and are handcuffed. Either way, it doesn’t bode well for them.
Gotta run. I am going up to http://www.liberal.ca to make a donation.
I am not sure but I think the total yearly limit for me is $1100.00
Yee ha!!!!!
“And now it wants to sue?” You bet!! You pretty much set up their case for them on your blog entry. You can probably expect a court order not to delete anything from your website, including the partisan comments that will be posted. You will have your hands full today meticulously scrutinizing all the posts and deleting many.
By Janice on 06.24.08 8:46 am
Really? Now Jennifer Wright HASN’T obtained the TM yet, she’s consulted with the NDP and is taking calls from Conservative supporters and yet claims she doesn’t want to be associated with any political party? And, her website isn’t complete and appears to have been that way for some time – last news release Sept/97……
I never heard of her or her company before – she should be glad for the publicity. I think we should let her know that.
I think perhaps an investigation should be conducted to see if the CPC is behind it….ya, an investigation to see if they set up the Libs via Ms. Wright……
Sept/97……….whoops meant to say Sept/07
sorry.
This whole thing reminds me of something that happened around here several years ago.
The giant soul-destroying Wal-Mart moved into the city of Kingston several years ago, becoming the anchor store of a small shopping mall when the other one (K-mart?) went bust or moved – can’t remember which.
In the mall, and right beside the Wal-Mart (lucky them) was a small yarn store called Wool Mart. The company had been in business way before Wal-Mart had elbowed its way into Canada. Well – -you can see the problems. Although Wool Mart was hardly ever mistaken for their giant neighbour, Wal-Mart often ended up with the smaller store’s deliveries, where they would languish for days or weeks before being redirected. Anyone with a small business knows the problems this could cause.
Wal-Mart insisted that the yarn store should change its name. The store insisted that it was legally registered with the name.
Upshot was, the small store couldn’t afford the time or the legal costs to fight the behemoth. They changed their name to Wool-Tyme, got lots of local publicity, made Wal-Mart look like a heartless bully (not too hard), and moved to a small free-standing mall not far away with no giant anchor. It’s still going strong.
There’s probably a lesson in that somewhere, but I’m damned if I know what it is.
Re By persona sine ingenio on 06.24.08 10:43 am
“who are the true manipulators of humans? Who are wont to use the noble lie, to comfort the suffering with platitudes but offer no succor, to blame the victims of an uneven economic order for their failure to compete, to revel in the expectation of the torments of the damned in the End Days?”
Right on, Persona.
The late lamented George Carlin had something to say about this, as he did about most things.
Go with the people who don’t bully and browbeat, who don’t hide, operate in secret, ignore legitimate questions, form strange alliances and generally make everyone feel uncomfortable.
Yes, I’m talking about the New Canadian Government (TM). It’s a good name – everyone has wondered what happened to the Canada they once knew. Let’s get it back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUM9l-obnrw
The funniest part of the Green Shift Tax (well, for me at least) is looking at the acronym that it makes:
Green
Shift
Tax
So not only did the Liberals fail to “kill the GST” like they promised, they are planning to stick us with a second one…
Hi PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.24.08 11:35 am,
I was at his public meeting he had in Burlington. I don’t exactly remember the date right now. I did post on this blog what I did tell him, near the end of the meeting. I had a writen statement I read to him. I posted it here on this blog.
It might have been on April 21 or 23?
My calonder scribal has a town hall and a Burlington meeting showing.
By KRT on 06.24.08 12:49 pm
Harry S. & Observant are the same person?
This is patently untrue Mr Turner. Every single time someone visits your web page they DOWNLOAD the html (or php or whatever) data that results in them seeing your web page in their browser. As a consequence, if a million extra people mistakenly visit a site and simply view the home page, all graphics and html data residing on that home page are DOWNLOADED a million extra times and that costs the owner serious money. Everything that is downloaded counts, not just files. ALL data counts as being downloaded. If you want to argue that fact, I’ll let you know (whether you believe it or not) that I am an IT professional. Any IT geek will back up what I say. Ask one. You are mistaken Mr. Turner. Honestly you are. this is likely costing greenshift.ca real money.
By Ben on 06.24.08 12:17 pm
Ben do you even understand the required volume of traffic that would have to occur for Green Shift to even approach their monthly bandwidth limits? Seriously, the ammount of traffic would have to be in the 100,000,000 vistor range. Given that even a basic Sympatico Web Hosting package (costs less than $100 per month) allows for over 3 Gig in bandwidth per month. IF GSI is getting that kind of traffic boost from this, then they should laughing from the added spin off business.
Personally, my own package, which costs $250.00 per month, I get unlimited bandwidth (up and down) and I also get a fiber-optic connection with a true DSL 16 MB up and down stream and a bank of 32 static IP addies on top.
Hi PYOTR PETROBITCH on 06.24.08 11:35 am,
Also, There was no TV coverage of the meeting. Maybe about 20 people there?
He answered the question people asked him. The answerers were the PMSH gangs standard lines at the time.
People were asking about the high cost of gas.
He throw in the fact that he use to work for a large oil corporation. But intentionally did not name which one it was. But that it was in the top few
(He gave in the top #, but I can’t recall the # it right now.)
I believe the answerer about high price of gas was because of world oil prices, and the oil companies were just passing on the cost. It was not in there control.
He said he has a family and kids. Which make me puzzled as to why he doesn’t want to stop global heating and get ready for peak-oil. I guess he just doesn’t know or care?
Someone ask about growth (urban sprawl)
in north Burlington. He said that the HYW 407 was now a barrier to grow since there were no sewer, sewage, hydro, gas, and phone line put in before the HYW 407 was built.
I didn’t say anything at the time, because I had a statement to tell him that was harsh enough. But HYW 407 is no permanent impediment to growth. They regularly put tunnels under highways, all the time. I didn’t know were this CPC MP has been. He needs to get out more. Or he thought we were stupid and would take his work as fact. Was he lying to us were he talked about HYW 407 stopping growth in north Burlington,
Or is he just ignorant about modern construction? Only he knows for sure.
By AToryNoMore on 06.24.08 2:32 pm
Just my opinion, but there are so much more worthwhile charities to donate to rather then a political party where elected members are already well paid. I have never donated and never will donate to any political party.
Unless the Liberal party is going to be using donations to purchase biodegradable lawn signs for the upcoming election, their claim as being the greenest party in Canada is a complete joke. The signs they currently use will be able to be read at the bottom of a landfill for the next several generations.
Still no answer to my simple question:
Why does Canada need a Liberal carbon tax now??
Is it because past Chretien-Martin-Dion Liberal governments neglected to bring GHGs under control, leaving Canada 32% above our Kyoto targets by 2006??
Would we even need a Liberal carbon tax if Canada were not so egregiously above our Kyoto targets??
To now ask Canadians to accept a Liberal carbon tax seems a tad disingenuous, particularly since Dion’s Green(Tax)SHift™ attempts to negate reducing GHGs by compensating for the carbon tax with an income tax credit. Does it really motivate Canadians to reduce our 2% carbon footprint at all??
Why is the Dion Green(Tax)SHift™ so convoluted and complicated??
So many questions … so few answers …
An open Letter to Green Shift…
Attn: Jennifer Wright, and all Green Shift Employees
First let me divulge my associations. I am a Green Party supporter, in that I donate to both provincial and federal parties regularly. Due to lack of proportional representation, my previous votes have been thoughtfully chosen based on strategic voting, individual issues and candidate potentials.
I am absolutely delighted to have a sitting federal party stealing ideas from the Green Party with regards to tax shifting. Though the details may be far less aggressive than the Green Party proposals, any movement on this issue is positive for me.
I am now equally disturbed & confused by Green Shift’s recent cease and desist order. This action comes across in complete contrast to your company’s mantra as greedy, unfriendly, and irresponsible. This action compels me to believe your company is doing nothing but “Green Washing”.
The Liberal Green Shift may be Canada’s last chance to redeem itself as being on the right side of fighting Climate Change. If Mr. Dion loses the next election on this issue, Mr. Harper will have a mandate to do NOTHING for the environment.
Please explain to me how suing over a three character variation is worthy of potentially hurting Canada’s pivotal moment to start doing the “right thing” to the detriment of Green Shift’s own sustainability.
Wealthy Canadians leave bigger eco-footprints
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080624/eco_footprints_080624/20080624?hub=SciTech
I agree. My brother sold his 30 year-old house and beautiful lot for $450,000. The buyer ripped down 1/2 of the house and added $600,000 worth of renovations. If you drive by at 11.30 pm, any night, all the lights along the eaves of this gigantic house are on including the ones at the gate. They have two SUVs and this house is in the country. The lights could be on all night. I don’t drive by any later than 11.30 pm.
By Gord on 06.24.08 6:00 am
OH Gordie! Am I your first thought in the morning and the last thought before you sleep? Do you dream of me also?
Thank you for your time and consideration. (hugs) Leasa
Why do you have to twist everything to benefit your (or the Liberal Party) agenda?
Just say “The Liberal Party was wrong” and then move on.
Hey Garth, you left out one important fact. This company put out the world’s first biodegradable cup and it has the name Green Shift on it. So now, people will think this is an ad for Dion’s tax plan. Pretty shifty if you ask me.
Firm takes action against Liberal ‘Green Shift’ brand
Updated Mon. Jun. 23 2008 8:59 PM ET
The Canadian Press
OTTAWA — An environmental consulting and supply company in Toronto is firing off a legal “cease and desist” order to stop the Liberal party from using the firm’s trademark name – Green Shift – for its new carbon-tax plan.
In what could become an embarrassing confrontation for Liberal Leader Stephane Dion, the owner of Green Shift says she is taking the legal step after earlier attempts failed to get the Liberals to drop the name from their environmental plan.
Environmental consultant Jennifer Wright, who has owned Green Shift since 1999 and registered the company name in 2001, said Monday she and a handful of other dedicated environmentalists who work with the firm can’t afford to have its identity associated with any political party.
But efforts that began last week, when Dion unveiled the Liberal party’s so-called Green Shift, have yielded no results. Wright said legal action may be the only recourse.
“We’re just trying to ask them politely to do the right thing,” she said in an interview. “We have asked them to stop using the name and we’ve asked them for a full public apology.”
A Liberal spokesman confirmed the party knew of the Green Shift company before Dion’s announcement, saying someone contacted Green Shift before Dion announced the scheme last week.
“A courtesy call was made last Monday in advance of (the) launch to let them know they might get increased traffic,” said Mark Dunn, Dion’s communications director.
Wright, however, said the call came on Wednesday and it was unclear exactly what the Liberal representative who called intended by the conversation.
Wright and her associates have spent the past few years initially consulting with private firms who want to change their consumption and purchasing toward environmentally sustainable or green choices.
The firm, in partnership with a United States association in support of the blind, began distributing what she called the first biodegradable cup in the world, which has the name Green Shift under its lip.
“For us to take this further (against the Liberals), it’s a David and Goliath problem,” Wright said. “We’re fine on our own, without any political affiliation. We’ve done everything to build our name on trust and integrity.”
She added the company has worked with government departments of all stripes across the country, including consulting with the Ontario NDP for its election campaign last year, and cannot afford being associated with any one party.
A Liberal spokesman discounted the company’s protests that the Liberals mimicked Green Shift’s web domain name, by adding the article “the” before Greenshift.ca.
“We rightly own the domain name,” said Dunn. “We are not a commercial threat to the company. The content of our site is about policy, not products.”
So many questions … so few answers …
By Harry S on 06.24.08 3:47 pm
After 400,000 questions, one tends to be ignored, especially if it is the same one 400,000 times.
Catherine: Only you would say that 2/3’s of Liberals supporting the Green Shift is less than 60%. Where the hell did you study math? At Jim Flaherty’s school of finance???
By Judy on 06.24.08 10:12 am
OK mea culpa – I took the NDP percentage of 59%. So yes, 66% of Liberal supporter support their Liberal Leader, Stephane Dion’s Carbon Tax.
So I have to ask why only 66% of the Liberals supporters support the Carbon Tax? It’s hardly a ringly endorsement.
Anyway, Judy – why don’t we go to the polls early. Oh yeah – Stephane Dion hasn’t paid off his leadership bills. See you guys on the huskings in Oct 2009.
And you and PP can do your selling of this Carbon Tax.
I just don’t get how this Green Shift company isn’t taking positive advantage of the situation:
“Hi were a small company that is trying to do some good for planet, and while we are not political we encourage everyone to try and do their part. If political parties want to encourage green initiatives then we say good for them … by the way anyone want some eco-friendly stuff? If so …
Sure seems strange, maybe somebody needs to go back to business school for some marketing classes.
Also, if this false outrage emanating from the CPC supporters is the best they’ve got then I they are in serious trouble.
By Koby1Kanoby on 06.24.08 4:02 pm
A great post with which I totally agree.
By Bonnie L on 06.24.08 4:11 pm,
If your drove by our house this time of year you would see lots of lights around the house. They cost us nothing but the cost of the original investment because they are solar powered.
Can you imagine the savings if our municipalities invested in solar lights?
Please read Greg Weston’s column today and tell me that Stephane Dion’s new Carbon Tax won’t cost Ontarians a whole lot.
btw, Greg Weston is hardly a Stephen Harper or Conservative supporter.
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2008/06/24/5967561-sun.html
“One thing is certain: Under Dion’s plan to impose a tax of $40 per tonne on greenhouse gas emissions, the increased costs to industry and ultimately consumers would be onerous.
For example, last year, Ontario’s five generating stations that run on fossil fuels produced just over 28 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions.
As a result, Dion’s scheme would slap a whopping tax of $1.1 billion just on those five power stations, increasing the cost of operating them by a staggering 80% or more.
As the spokesman for Ontario Power says, someone would have to pay. “
By Greg W. Oakville on 06.24.08 2:57 pm
By Greg W. Oakville on 06.24.08 3:26 pm
Maybe about 20 people there?
Thanks, Greg … I think that was at the Burlington Public Library. You’ve provided reasonably clear coverage of what happened. I do hope, in the near future, to meet you at a future meeting under the umbrella of The Hon. Garth Turner.
OK mea culpa – I took the NDP percentage of 59%. So yes, 66% of Liberal supporter support their Liberal Leader, Stephane Dion’s Carbon Tax.
So I have to ask why only 66% of the Liberals supporters support the Carbon Tax? It’s hardly a ringly endorsement.
Anyway, Judy – why don’t we go to the polls early. Oh yeah – Stephane Dion hasn’t paid off his leadership bills. See you guys on the huskings in Oct 2009.
And you and PP can do your selling of this Carbon Tax.
By Catherine on 06.24.08 4:33 pm
I am curious too, why are 32% of Conservatives (their words not mine) in support…let’s see 66 % Liberals + 32% Conservatives…is that 2 short of 100%
By Leasa on 06.24.08 4:18 pm
I am sure the CPC could find a pro bono lawyer for this poor lady.
Off topic – une bonne fête de la Saint-Jean-Baptiste
But – if you are Stephane Dion – this only applies to francophones.
His statement:
June 24, 2008
“On behalf of all the Federal liberal caucus, I wish to all of Canada’s Francophones a happy Saint-Jean Baptiste day.
June 24 is an opportunity to recognize Francophones’ extraordinary contribution to the Canadian experience and celebrate the vitality of French in Canada. We are privilege to enjoy two official languages whose international stature has opened a window on the world for all Canadians.
Again, I wish to all Canadian Francophones a happy Saint-Jean Baptiste day spent with their family and friends. ”
I guess Stephane Dion forgets that there are 500,000 anglophones who make Quebec their home – some for centuries.
Pertinent to this debate is this column today in the G&M by Margret Wente.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080624.wcowente24/BNStory/specialComment
What ever facts and calculations you choose to believe, one can not escape the enormity of the problem. How can anyone deny that Global Warming exists when you get your mind around these simple realities:
-Africa had 14 glaciers and now has only 6 including the Mt. Kilimanjaro glacier is only half of its former size.
-The Athabasca Ice Fields have been retreating ever since they were first discovered in the late 1800’s. It originally extended past where the Banff Jasper Highway traverses by it and is no longer even close to the roadway.
-last year it was announced that radar measurements of the Greenland Icecap show it shrank 23″ in one year (2006?). That shrinkage also revealed that where the North end of the ice shelf retreated there are 3 new rocky islands (Shoals) to add to the Arctic Maps.
How ever you view these facts it still spells out a major change in our planet. Will our species tune in and respond in sufficient efforts to reduce and halt this? I sincerely doubt it. As our world population further explodes toward the projected 14 billion from our over 6 billion today, it is easy to conceive that sooner rather than later there will be another World War of devastating dimensions over the rights to clean fresh water, and food never mind energy sources, green or otherwise!
These predictions were made by a university professor in Edmonton at a dinner party back in the early 1960’s and now I know he was correct!
THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THE MANNING CENTRE FOR
BUILDING DEMOCRACY IS TO PREPARE CANADIANS FOR PRINCIPLED
PARTICIPATION IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.
WE DO SO BY DEVELOPING THE IDEAS, SKILLS, AND FINANCIAL
RESOURCES REQUIRED TO MAKE SUCH PARTICIPATION EFFECTIVE
AND RESPONSIBLE.
—————————————————————————————-
You Liberals are a joke.
By Reid on 06.24.08 2:00 pm
—————————————————————————————————————————————————-
So Reid! Are you Stephen Taylor ?
Well Reid(or Stephen Taylor) i would think yourself and Preston Manning would be having many sleepness nights realizing Harper is representing yourselves. With your being a biochemist i,m curious what the results are when you mix a Fiscal Conservative with a Neo Conservative?
By Bonnie L on 06.24.08 4:11 pm
Wealthy Canadians leave bigger eco-footprints
Dear Bonnie L
I agree and disagree in that most of us are part of the problem. It takes awareness and then action to alter your footprint. My sister has a 3000 square foot home, 4 bathrooms: for her, my niece a teenager, a son away at university and my Mum and kinda scary – five cats.
Oh my God, every time I go up to visit I am running around turning off incandescent lights – otherwise they would blaze all night. She has a great career and lives in the interior of BC where trucks are a manly mandate. There is a kind of Pleasantville attitude in this smallish town that is out of touch with the challenge.
Now, we live in a 1050 square foot house on the coast – the two of us and a Labrador. One bathroom and ever so slowly based on money we have become more efficient. I feel like I am trying to compensate for her families footprint and losing.
People have been sold a load of goods that bigger is better. I don’t fault her success but somehow I feel richer because I know that we are part of the solution. Lifestyle is hard to change. Real commitment is hard to realize until you take the first step.
I think once people figure out that less is more and they can make difference we can change whether it’s in time depends on us.
C. B. Innes:
Re: Harper and the Wheat Board takeover
“He is willing to use coercive power of the state to “walk over” those opposed to his position just as he illegally silenced the farmer-elected members of the Wheat Board.”
So true–with neither transparency or accountability but completely undemocratically.
James Travers rally reveals the True Harper in his column today. The site was given earlier by Mr. Petrobitch but here it is again:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/447680
–And yes! Alberta’s people are being exploited for the benefit of those who own and control an industry. In fact, they have so many Albertans so brainwashed that they really are sold on the oil business as being just all around great.
Now that the American mayors are attacking Alberta’s “dirty oil” and as other countries are trying to buy cleaner energy, Albertans may find they bought into a deal that will ultimately do them a lot more harm than good. What are their alternate plans?
See you guys on the huskings in Oct 2009.
And you and PP can do your selling of this Carbon Tax.
By Catherine on 06.24.08 4:33 pm
Why not this fall, Catherine? Maybe after the corn is HUSKED. That way, I can wake Martha at 2:12 a.m. again to tell her, “They’re comin’ at us outa the corn again, Martha, and it looks like they’re gonna miss the vote because they think it’s gonna be held here at the corn huskings.”
BTW, tell Leasa her self-induced SLUDGE SLIDE has been attributed to a muddy personality.
Wealthy Canadians leave bigger eco-footprints
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080624/eco_footprints_080624/20080624?hub=SciTech
I agree. My brother sold his 30 year-old house and beautiful lot for $450,000. The buyer ripped down 1/2 of the house and added $600,000 worth of renovations. If you drive by at 11.30 pm, any night, all the lights along the eaves of this gigantic house are on including the ones at the gate. They have two SUVs and this house is in the country. The lights could be on all night. I don’t drive by any later than 11.30 pm.
By Bonnie L on 06.24.08 4:11 pm
Bonnie, the amazing parts to this is that these guys actually got paid for studying common sense, I wonder if anyone thought the rich left a smaller eco-footprint than the poor?
Gord.
Fact still remains that the Liberals are selling an idea not goods and services .
Green shift does not own the trademark to the name as it is already registered in the US .
This is the only chink in the Liberal ‘Green Plan ‘ armor .
This is just a lame attempt to garner ,eve,more publicity for this ,extremely,small company .
Con-bots are shitting bricks over the latest polls .
Buh,bye ! Morons .
By Koby1Kanoby on 06.24.08 4:02 pm
The Liberal Green Shift may be Canada’s last chance to redeem itself as being on the right side of fighting Climate Change. If Mr. Dion loses the next election on this issue, Mr. Harper will have a mandate to do NOTHING for the environment.
………………………………………..
You obviously have great faith in Dion’s Green Shift plan to reduce Canada’s GHG emission by putting a price on carbon and thus forcing people and companies to reduce their carbon footprint. However you seem to be oblivious to the fact that Canada only produces ~2% of the world’s total GHG emissions, and that Canada is currently 30% above our Kyoto GHG targets.
Do you think that Canada would urgently need a Carbon Tax if we were reasonably within reach of our Kyoto GHG targets??
If the Canadian governments of the day had the foresight to control Canada’s skyrocketing GHGs from 1995 onwards, surely we would not be requiring a Carbon Tax at all. When the current Harper Conservative government inherited a 32% (now 30%) GHG excess from the previous Liberal government, they were faced with a horrendous task which would have meant shutting down large sectors of the Canadian economy to meet our 2012 Kyoto commitments.
In his Green Shift, Dion admits that Canada cannot meet it’s 2012 Kyoto targets, and his Green Plan is geared towards a 2020 target, even though the Green Shift only has a 4 year timeline from an anticipated early 2009 start. Do you think Dion has a hidden agenda should Canadians fail to reduce their GHG footprint by 2012, like purchasing Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits with the money a Liberal government would have collected from their Carbon Tax?? I don’t believe the Green Shift will be revenue neutral because I don’t trust Liberal politicians who, when in government, allowed Canada’s GHGs to rise unrestricted to 32% above our 2012 Kyoto treaty commitments.
Dion and the Liberals have a hidden agenda that will screw Canadians …..!
This looks like it could be a temptest in a teapot. Since the “Green Shift” use by this company and by the Liberal Party are for completely different purposes and there is no commercial infringement it is doubtful that any lawsuit by Green Shift Inc. would stand in court.
TheGreenShift.ca may only be three letters away from GreenShift.ca, but GreenShift is only a failing grade (f) away from organic fertilizer. Of course, with all of the political spin it easily becomes TheGreenShifty! If the taxes do not end up being revenue neutral (GST?) then it becomes TheGreenShaft! If all this punny letter changing is not funny to you, then welcome TheGroanShift. How this post furthers the discussion, I don’t know, but it is not any worse than a lot of the mindless drivel postings that I see here.
F-Troop grows larger by the day .Dozens of
con-bot,under the bridge dwelling,nasty,spiteful,hateful trolls have infested this site .
Time to get out the Napalm and hose ‘em down .
Catherine can’t even do simple arithmetic.
Two thirds is 66 % .Always has been always will be .Dummy !
The stupidity of these trolls becomes more obvious and glaring by the day .
What a bunch of water heads .
The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?” Plastic…asshole.
By Brian Wilson on 06.24.08 9:07 am
……..good grief – such pearls of wisdom – he doesn’t even know about the damaging chemicals in plastic – when it’s on the news constantly? This is frightening that a person can be so backward and ill-informed – frightening indeed. Yup, keep pumping your kids if you have them with chemicals – your pets or the rest of your family – if you have them.
“A Liberal spokesman confirmed the party knew of the Green Shift company before Dion’s announcement, saying someone contacted Green Shift before Dion announced the scheme last week.”
I’m not surprised by Garth’s approval of the theft of someone”s property. Obviously Garth is the genius who screwed this up
I’m not important enough yet to be put in charge of Screw-Ups. — Garth
I don’t know the conditions for obtain a trademark – but it seems to be very long time – since 2005 and a re-application. I would suspect that perhaps they don’t meet the requirements in some way. Otherwise, wouldn’t they have had it by now?
I worked for a firm that had several small companies and they didn’t take long to obtain trademarks? Something doesn’t add up here.
By jwp on 06.24.08 4:23 pm
So many questions … so few answers …
By Harry S on 06.24.08 3:47 pm
After 400,000 questions, one tends to be ignored, especially if it is the same one 400,000 times.
………………………………….
And still no sensible answers, other than proclaiming it’s good for Canada according to Liberal trools …. making it a pig-in-a-poke political ploy ..!!!
I, and I believe most Canadians will not want to be penalized and punished with a Liberal carbon tax to mitigate the negligence and failure of past Liberal governments to limit GHG growth in a timely manner from 1995 onwards, i.e. making it a “priority” …
I also refuse to be put on a guilt trip over Canada’s measly 2% GHG emissions and pay a Liberal carbon tax because Liberals “didn’t get it done?”
Take your Liberal carbon tax and ‘green shift’ it where the sun don’t shine … and btw .. SCREW YOU …!!!!
“Jim Bobby has an even better solution than my $5k one… why doesn’t the Liberal Party start placing all of it’s orders for disposable cups, napkins, etc. with this company? Strike a sole-source deal with them for a year.”
Good one from JimBobby! Another blog reports that Ms. Wright said she received 5000 angry emails yesterday, the same day a Blogging Tory posted her email, encouraged people to write her and got close to 5000 hits on his site.
I would be *really* angry and perhaps ready to sue somebody if I even heard from a 100 conniving Blogging Tories in one day. Imagine hearing from 5000 of these guys!
Listen to JimBobby. No one deserves to be bombarded by malicious Blogging Tories, least of all an environmentally friendly company.
As Shakespeare said” A rose by any other name would (will) smell as sweet” and I am sure M. Dion’s green plan will be as sweet, whatever name is chosen. BTW, so many people who have seen the Green ads have been impressed by the “high road” taken by the LPC. It bothers me when I read some bloggers who seem to fall for the goading by conservative bloggers and reply in kind. It’s hard to ignore them, especially when truth is twisted and at times outright lies are told. Replying in kind makes us as low as they are. Replying with facts makes their blogs partisan and infantile. Just a thought!
The Trouble with Tribbles
Let’s be fair Oily the Splot got a bad case of “no’ we don’t produce political party ads at the pump. Heaven forbid we should make a connection between oil companies and the Conservative party.
It was a two day news worthy event.
Today’s URL issue you are Liberal, controversy is about the same thing but different. Gosh for Green Shift the company, we had Barenaked Ladies as our client they might not buy our services – they support Jack Layton.
I suspect the back channel is Green Shift Canada got swarmed with Conservative bloggers and ardent Liberals and whoever else overriding their products, message and most importantly their phones and email.
I can understand why she relented and reacted to launch a lawsuit. They were promised positive results. Well if someone in blog-a-sphere decides to attack you it’s hard to tell how to stop the assault or who they are…
All she wants is it to stop. The trouble is tribbles managed to influence her small business with a full on attack. She is not used to press, or national attention.
Give her a break Garth – let’s make this a two day worthy news event.
I hear on the grapevine that Harper may be shuffling his cabinet tomorrow. Comments?
Save the planet with your WALLETS ….. Dion proclaims in his Green SHift …. because Canada’s huge 2% of the world’s GHGs are the tipping point that will plunge the planet into eternal darkness unless we throttle back our economy and make Canadians freeze in the dark …!!!
(Of course there is another way to painlessly alleviate our angst and mitigate our bad bad behaviour .. just purchase Billion$$$ of Chinese Carbon Credits so they can continue building their unrestricted high-sulphur brown coal-fired power plants spewing GHGs, SOx, NOx …. and even genetic-altering Hg(mercury) which apparently is carried over the Pacific and lands in western North America in rather high concentrations …. You can even see from satellite images, the clouds of Chinese smog moving towards North American and dumping their noxious loads on us …!!!!)
by HARRY S 06.23.08 11:36 PM
The comment didn’t even sound like Harry. He must still be a Y camp. Perhaps big Steve himself is filling in for him at the Death Star?
What a joke! I have 3 business sites up and if anyone ever did anything that caused our hits to skyrocket, I’d be one happy guy! People pay megabucks to find ways to get their hits up. Hits translate into sales. After all, if you don’t want people hitting your site, why have one?
This lady has got rocks for brains. I’d love to be in court when the judge asks her how much damage the Liberals have caused? OMG, some people are dense.
Garth, if I give you my 3 urls, can you get the Liberals to get names close to them for me? Hell, I’d even make a sizable donation!!
She is blowing hot air, as are her supporters. She will not win. Don’t cave in to her. With URL’s it is not uncommon to have several that are owned by different people but very close in name.
Gawd… I should be so lucky.
“The Green Economy” or “The Green Transition”? Just offering some ideas!
By JWLNLER 06.24.08 1:23AM
I like “The Green Economy”.
Dion’s carbon shock
Liberal plan would ding Ontario’s top 5 power plants for $1.1 billion
By GREG WESTON – Toronto Sun – June 24, 2008
While Stephane Dion promises the Liberals’ proposed $15-billion environmental tax would provide riches for the poor and tax cuts for all, he fails to mention consumers in most parts of the country would be in for some shocking electricity bills.
In Ontario, for instance, government figures show Dion’s plan would add at least 20% to the overall annual cost of generating electricity across the province.
The impact would be as bad or even worse in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and much of the Maritimes, regions with generating stations powered by fossil fuels — coal, oil and gas.
The giant Ontario Power Generation Corp., the province’s main electrical utility, claims no one really knows how much Dion’s tax scheme would drive up the average family’s cost of keeping the lights on.
A spokesman says the utility would not comment on any political party’s proposed policy, but “obviously someone would have to pay for increased costs.”
One thing is certain: Under Dion’s plan to impose a tax of $40 per tonne on greenhouse gas emissions, the increased costs to industry and ultimately consumers would be onerous.
For example, last year, Ontario’s five generating stations that run on fossil fuels produced just over 28 million tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions.
As a result, Dion’s scheme would slap a whopping tax of $1.1 billion just on those five power stations, increasing the cost of operating them by a staggering 80% or more.
As the spokesman for Ontario Power says, someone would have to pay.
In this case, that would be either Ontario consumers or provincial taxpayers who would be zapped for more than $1 billion a year, an increase of at least 20% in the operating costs of the utility, including its nuclear and hydro-electric facilities.
Environmentalists argue with some reason that the aging fossil-fuel generating stations are eco-monsters whose belching smokestacks should have been capped long ago.
In fact, Environment Canada lists the Nanticoke station on Lake Erie as the worst single source of greenhouse gas emissions anywhere in Canada.
The latest figures we have show Nanticoke alone belched over 16 million tonnes of emissions into the air in 2006, roughly the equivalent of half of all the regular cars in the country.
The problem is Nanticoke and the other four eco-offending facilities also generate about 30% of Ontario Power’s total annual output of electricity, and throwing the switch on them anytime soon would leave much of the province in the dark.
Alberta would be even harder hit by the Dion tax plan with more than half of the promised $15 billion in annual revenues coming from that one oil-producing province.
Much of that would be from the oilsands — two Syncrude plants alone would have been smacked last year with over $1 billion in Dion’s “green shift” taxes.
ORDINARY FAMILIES
But like Ontario, ordinary Alberta families would be hit with soaring electrical bills to cover the environmental taxes on coal and oil-burning generating plants.
According to federal figures, seven electrical generation facilities in Alberta together produce almost 80% more greenhouse gas emissions than Ontario’s worst five.
Were Dion’s tax applied, Albertans would be stuck covering almost $1.8 billion on their monthly electricity bills.
By coincidence, the one province where electricity bills won’t be touched by Dion’s plan is the one with all that hydro power — Quebec.
Imagine that.
………………………………
DION’S GREEN SHIFT HONEYMOON LOOKS LIKE IT’S OVER ….!!!!
Since this whole story seems to be coming from declared conservative supporters websites this couldn’t be yet another pathetic attempt to stifle the Liberals like the lawsuit in the Cadmen affair?
National Newswatch has an interesting article on Question period on CTV last week where it seems even that station is tired of being dictated to by Harper.
Could it be that Harper can’t find muzzles big enough or in large enough quantities to shut up everybody that he doesn’t want to hear?
Zorpheus
Rather than present a mathematical dissertation for you I will simply point out that your math is completely and utterly wrong.
Do you really think it would take 100 MILLION visitors in order to consume just 3GB of greenshift.ca’s bandwidth as you state?
If that is what you calculate, I would be willing to bet (perhaps hope is a better word) that your wife balances the cheque book for you.
Do the math kiddo. Here, I’ll get you started: The greenshifte.ca home page is about 129KB in size. That’s ONLY the home page. Now I leave it to you to figure out what 3GB is and divide 3GB by 129KB.
Bottom line, this misappropriation of their Intellectual Property by the Liberal party is likely costing greenshift.ca real money.
Anyway, I’ll disregard your utterly ridiculous math errors but please do not ignore my other concerns in the interest of your limited mathematical skills.
In doing so you risk sounding like a kool-aid swilling apologist, and they belong to the Harper Regime.
At least I hope that they do.
Vault the Liberals into government Garth?
Dream on, LMAO
LIberals will always try to do what they do best and that is LIE, CHEAT AND STEAL.
Not on the topic of the of the name (that is a legal matter anyway). I live in an urban environment so my tax differences will be much different than that for people in rural areas, but that is fair, I have more services. I can choose to sell my car and use public transit and my bicycle. Huge savings for me there, in insurance and fuel costs not to mention the maintenance costs. If I am going on vacation I can rent a vehicle. As most shoppers do I already discriminate when buying my groceries depending on price. If tomatoes get to be too expensive I just don’t buy them, things like that. I will continue doing that. By cycling I get lots of exercise and will be healthier, which means savings for our health care system. The down side, an increase in the price of most goods that we purchase, but they are optional and we can be discriminate when making those purchases. Income taxes which this plan are lowering, are not optional.
BY JASON K ON 06.24.08 6:21 AM
Poor Jason K. still defending Globalization, oblivious to the fact that it is being force fed to us for no good reason.
Jason, in reality, Globalization just makes the mega rich, mega richer. And us poor get poorer. You fool.
An ex-liberal isn’t helping Dion with his Green Shift Plan.
http://www.bloggingtories.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5484
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: Toronto Star and Bill Graham Poke Holes in Green Shaft
——————————————————————————–
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/447138
Carbon tax: Who wins, who loses?
Jun 23, 2008 04:30 AM
Carol Goar
Bill Graham always had a talent for cutting through political
bafflegab.
It is a shame the Liberal elder statesman – who served as interim
party leader, foreign affairs minister, defence minister and five-term
MP for Toronto-Centre-Rosedale – is no longer a member of Stéphane
Dion’s caucus.
With one simple question, he pierced the attractive packaging of the
Liberal leader’s carbon tax plan. “What does revenue-neutral mean? It
sounds nice when you say it, but it will create winners and losers.
Who’s going to win, who’s going to lose and who’s going to pay?”
Unfortunately, Graham – who is now chancellor of Trinity College at
the University of Toronto – didn’t ask that question in Ottawa. He
posed it at a panel discussion in Toronto, organized by the Institute
for Research on Policy Public.
The influential think-tank invited the city’s business leaders,
bankers, economists, energy experts and political analysts to a two-hour
working lunch last week to discuss the challenges of crafting a carbon
tax that doesn’t undermine Canada’s competitiveness, doesn’t exacerbate
regional disparities, doesn’t cause federal-provincial battles and
doesn’t trigger a public backlash.
It was an enlightening session. The three panellists – Mark Jaccard
of Simon Fraser University, Thomas Courchene of Queen’s University and
Sam Boutziouvis of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives – laid out
the complexities of taxing fossil fuel use in daunting detail.
It would force exporters to jack up their prices, putting them at a
disadvantage in world markets. To protect Canada’s share of global
trade, Ottawa might have to exempt products destined for sale abroad
from the tax.
It could induce energy-dependent manufacturers to move to countries
with lax environmental policies. The one percentage point cut in
corporate tax rates that Dion is offering, plus the incentives for
investing in green technologies, may not be enough to stem the outflow.
Imposing a carbon tariff could contravene Canada’s trade obligations.
It is unclear how a Liberal government could penalize imports from
countries with lax environmental policies without violating the World
Trade Agreement.
Putting a price on pollution would hurt some regions more than others.
The impact would be particularly severe in the industrial heartland,
which is already reeling from high energy prices and a sputtering
economy; and the western oil sands, which spew huge amounts of
greenhouse gas into the atmosphere.
Finally, all the revenue from Dion’s carbon tax would flow into federal
coffers. Provinces that took the lead – such as British Columbia with
its groundbreaking carbon tax and Quebec with its tax on oil and gas
distributors – would be expected to join the federal plan, losing
their right to distribute the proceeds of the tax according to
provincial needs.
“This is going to be messy – really messy,” Jaccard warned.
No one in the room needed much convincing. For all Dion’s talk about
simplicity and fairness, it is clear the “green shift” he is proposing
would be one of the most complex, challenging and divisive policy
initiatives in Canadian political history.
But it took Graham’s plain-spoken intervention to bring the debate back
to basics.
He asked the question millions of Canadians will be asking, as they
ponder Dion’s climate change plan: Will I be a winner or a loser?
The Liberal leader’s pledge to return every dollar of his carbon tax
doesn’t really answer that question.
Collectively, Canadians will be no worse off. But individually, their
fates will vary, depending on how much they earn, where they live, how
they heat their home, what they do for a living, how many children they
have and how much flexibility they have to shrink their carbon
footprint.
What Dion is proposing is a massive wealth transfer, designed to clean
up the atmosphere, cut poverty and transform the industrial landscape.
If more voters see themselves as winner than losers, Dion’s plan will
fly. If not, it will fail.
I think perhaps an investigation should be conducted to see if the CPC is behind it….ya, an investigation to see if they set up the Libs via Ms. Wright……
By slg on 06.24.08 2:36 pm
Absolutely there should be an investigation. Lets see if it was the conservatives that covertly gave the name to the libs and then called the real Green Shift people to set them up.
That’s a Darwin award.
Do they really want to be seen as the political party that tried to steamroller an ecological business run by a woman …??!!!
Where has your gender sensitivity and gender equality gone now ..??!!!
Maybe you can offer her a Toronto riding to run as a Liberal if she withdraws her ‘cease and desist’ order … and thus kill two birds with one stone … keeping ‘Green Shift’ and having another woman candidate to fulfill Dion’s pledge to have one-third of his candidates women …!!!
We are being treated like Pavlov’s dogs here were human behaviour is be modified by the social engineering of the state
By sheila on 06.23.08 10:24 pm
_____________________________________
Please tell Mr. Harper to stop then!
BY JWP ON 06.24.08 10:07 AM
_____________________________________
JWP,
Ha! Too funny!
It’s nice to see the Cons on the run, isn’t it? They are scratching their heads trying to figure out why their tricks don’t work. And now we see all these lame attempts by the Trolls to engineer their own foibles and traits onto the ‘enemy’.
They are just digging their graves deeper and deeper. I must admit it’s getting amusing.
I just don’t get how this Green Shift company isn’t taking positive advantage of the situation:
By Markus D. on 06.24.08 4:36 pm
That thinking alone speaks volumes. Individuals should be treated by the liberal party anyway it sees fit and should be thankful for it.
The point is not exposure or business plan or whatever. The point is the libs knowingly used a domain that would inundate a small company with hits and phone calls. They knew the company would not have the resources to take all the calls and inquiries. They knew that those opposed to the tax would be calling the real Green Shift company to air their complaint. Some callers would be angry and the company secretary would bare the abuse.
The libs didn’t care. They were going to roll over anyone in their way. And they did.
If the liberals are having this much trouble with a domain name (greenshift.ca) then think about the potential hazards of this Con bill on copyright!
Perhaps the liberals will realize now how important it is to stop The Jim prentice Copyright bill ! Vote aganist it!!
Garth plse explain your position on the copyright bill and your party stance?
By Ben on 06.24.08 12:17 pm
Ben – Just asked my DH who is an IT professional as well and has hosted a site. According to him, it depends on the contract that one has with the site provider.
Haven’t read any emails beyond Ben’s so don’t know if anyone else replied.
I am curious too, why are 32% of Conservatives (their words not mine) in support…let’s see 66 % Liberals + 32% Conservatives…is that 2 short of 100%
By jwp on 06.24.08 4:53 pm
Nice try – but your obvious deflection is still not going to cover up that that a large portion of Liberals are not buying into it.
Totally off topic…
On Dog Walks and the Site that Barks
Sad weekend in Toronto, High Park someone is poisoning dogs. Gosh, this makes me think we have this huge beach on the Coast we walk (figuratively – she runs) our dog is off-leash on the beach. Anyone could plant poison or traps – she may not be safe.
But then I thought if we put her on leash and don’t allow her to have that run – this is the highlight of her day next to her picking up my husband from the ferry. The fear factor comes into all our lives for our canine friends and human trust.
It is so sad and weird that someone would do that to an animal that is so trusting.
Okay I have rambled a bit, my point is the site that barks is when we allow a disturbed person to limit our ability to feel free with our best friend.
Post By Bonnie L on 06.24.08 6:48 pm
An interesting contribution. If we give Mr. Dion the courtesy of looking at the plan… well, it just doesn’t look that good. It might appear to be appealing to the condo-dwelling urbanite, for the suburbanite (the one who doesn’t look too closely) it might even seem like a wash, for rural people it really earns the label of the Green Shaft.
I’m sure the Liberals – in their unguarded moments – would even admit that the shafting of rural citizens is by design. “Those rednecks don’t vote for us anyway, so the hell with them.”
People often talk about the urban/rural split in Canada as being 80/20 but the ridings don’t break down that way. Just off the top of my head I’d say the split in ridings is more in the neighbourhood of 60/40 in favour of urban ridings. Still an advantage but less so than it appears at first glance. People who are only a generation or two off the old homestead have a real empathy for their rural counterparts.
There are other weaknesses in Dion’s plan, in my opinion, but the treatment of rurals seems to me the thing that makes it a non-starter.
Somethings smells about this tempest in a teacup. First, the company hasn’t got the rights to the words Green Shift: the words are all over the internet and the world. Second, one company official said ‘no worries’, and third, all of a sudden it’s become a problem over a week after The Green Shift launch. Smells like monkey poo to me.
I wonder if certain people haven’t ‘got’ to her through harassing phone calls, or even perhaps an operative or two ‘visiting’ her office bearing gifts a la Cadman.
I’ll be watching this story closely and watching Green Shift Inc. client list and contracts.
One never knows when a Green Shift could get the Greed Shaft treatment courtesy of the Cons and minions.
Still, it would be nice if Green Shift Inc. decides to share the care for the environment with others… who knows, it might vault the Inc. into heights of business it only dreamed of two weeks ago.
Or perhaps sink it to lows never expected if GS Inc. is found to be in collusion with the Cons.
Interesting times.
By Liz on 06.24.08 1:40 pm
Liz – check out Kady’s blog at MacLeans. Seems there are lots of con bloggers & one in particular, who is offering money to Mrs. Wright to help her in suing the Libs. I read somewhere today that she is affiliated with the NDP.
Also, I think one poster at Kady’s site last eve or this am questioned why Ms. Wright, upon getting hits at her site, didn’t take it down and put a notice on the front page that she had no affiliation with the LPC.
Broil King, the Canadian made high quality gas barbecue, BroilKing, the American made high quality electric griddle – no one seems to be arguing about the names that are differentiated only by a space. What’s the problem?
By Northern Ted on 06.24.08 2:01 pm
Personally, I feel the same NT.
Garth: Please give Ms Wright a break.Why not call the Liberal program THE GREEN SHAFt….that should satisfy everyone!!!!
So many questions … so few answers …
By Harry S on 06.24.08 3:47 pm
Perhaps if you apologize for even thinking about dropping a finned thingy on Dion and for calling Canada a ratsh*t country; you might get some respect in the form of answers to your questions, but that’s beneath you.
End result , we couldn’t care less about you.
Looking at a situation from a neutral perspective, not taking sides but observing, then making one’s own call for better or worse, today’s WW from the KDC show one major difference between Dion and harpo.
“Man’s mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.” — Oliver Wendell Holmes
Dion and the Libs. have new ideas — harpo and CRAP have none at all.
CRAP has had over two years at the top, and all they have done is take, lie, steal, take more and rob folk, while selling voters the icing on the cake but, at the same time, bankrupting Canada in the process (Carney’s idea to spend us into oblivion?).
Dion is also open to discussions and changes for those ideas; harpo is an authoritarian control freak who does not allow ideas. Therefore, he lives or dies with his choices.
Now the Libs. have a few months to well inform Cdns. as to what Canada would be under a Lib. govt., as compared to CRAP.
Sure, it will cost money to implement; all good ideas cost money to eventually start businesses up, but it can and should be done much more efficiently than at present.
BTW, a CP report says “BC expected to see its first wind farm later this year”.
Prince Rupert where there are plenty of storms; there was talk of turning PR into a major seaport, primarily for trade, but it would also need new rail lines and a couple of highways, from Prince George and / or the Sunshine Coast.
Last para. reads: “Eventually, wind farms are expected to supply up to 35 per cent of the country’s power needs.”
Plus, it’s free!
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Talk about a sucker born every minute. Brand new penthouse condo in Calgary. Price: $10 mln.
There are many things I would do with $10 mln.; spending it on something I don’t want or need is not one of them!
http://tinyurl.com/5s9pxp
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TSX dropped something like 280 points today; Greenspan said the US is close to a recession.
Hmmmmmm. Methinks he is somewhat unclear on the concept of basic economics.
Probably been in glass towers for too long now, so has no idea of the reality of life which most of us live with!
Also, I think one poster at Kady’s site last eve or this am questioned why Ms. Wright, upon getting hits at her site, didn’t take it down and put a notice on the front page that she had no affiliation with the LPC.
By kpn on 06.24.08 7:48 pm
Why should anyone have to defend themselves against the liberal party of toronto. Why should they have to shut down their site? You lib lemmings try to make the real Green Shift the villian. They didn’t do anything wrong. It was the libs.
Why did the libs set up a domain that they knew would cause havoc for a little business? Its because they think they can. They think they have the right to stomp on anyone. That elitist arrogance where they are entitled to their entitlements.
And the sad thing is any legal recourse will be before a liberal appointed judge. We know how that will turn out.
I hear on the grapevine that Harper may be shuffling his cabinet tomorrow. Comments?
By C. B. Innes on 06.24.08 6:21 pm
Prentice for PM, Harper custodian at death star.
I also refuse to be put on a guilt trip over Canada’s measly 2% GHG emissions and pay a Liberal carbon tax because Liberals “didn’t get it done?”
Take your Liberal carbon tax and ‘green shift’ it where the sun don’t shine … and btw .. SCREW YOU …!!!!
By Harry S on 06.24.08 5:47 pm
Nobody is asking you … guilt trips are assumed by the guilty, no one can lay them on you. In your case, you can always claim mental incompetence!
The libs didn’t care. They were going to roll over anyone in their way. And they did.
By Janice on 06.24.08 6:57 pm
Kinda like Stephen Harper threatened last weekend to “walk over” whoever stood in his way while he dismantles the Canadian Wheat Board by hook or by crook?
Oooooh, scary stuff!
If your drove by our house this time of year you would see lots of lights around the house. They cost us nothing but the cost of the original investment because they are solar powered.
Can you imagine the savings if our municipalities invested in solar lights?
By C. B. Innes on 06.24.08 4:50 pm
We too bought solar lights recently. We had only motion detector lights for years, but they can be flaky at times.
BTW, I did further research today about rebates. I revisited a Fed site – Office of Energy Efficiency – ‘Retrofit your Home and Qualify for a Grant’. They offer a $50. rebate on 6 litre or less toilets. However, one has to hire a certified energy insepector. Spoke to Conserv NS & Energy Info Hot line people. An inspector would cost us $150. N.S. would give us a $50. rebate for each toilet as well. For all this hassle we’d gain $50. The Fed. site offers no rebates on electrical on-demand water heaters – only gas and another type. Sure gas is more efficient, but if you don’t have the option of gas they must think we’re not worthy of a rebate, although we’re trying to be more energy efficient. BTW, these rebates are effective Jan 1/08. Also, the Hot line didn’t know where we could buy an on-demand electric hot water heater here in NS. DH thinks Home Depot might sell one. Will check with them.
DH put in an air/heat exchanger several years ago, before it became mandatory in new homes. We were having problems with our windows during the winter, especially in the living room. Each winter, I would have to place towels on the inside frames to mop up the water. Problem disappeared as soon as our air heat exhanger was installed. Perhaps we could have rec’d a rebate but just didn’t know about it.
Anyway, I know that we in N.S. are really going to be hit by the Green Shift plan. N.S. Power recently applied for the the Utility Board for 13+ increase in electricity. Our home is electrically heated, but we also heat with wood. I can say my DH and most of his friends are not impressed. Personally, I think Dion has to provide some additional tax incentives to people who live in areas that have no options, at the moment, than to heat their homes with electricity generated by coal. Though we can survive with the extra costs, because we have been reducing our footprint for many years, the extra costs for many, less fortunate Nova Scotians may be more than they can bare.
Ben most sites are proxied cached via the downloaders ISP. This is done for load balancing and improved performance. Actual download bandwith is a very complex calculation. If everyone hitting Green Shift were doing un cached hits, you would be correct, but that isn’t the way it works. By this time all major ISP’s will have cached copies of the Green Shift site to provide better service to their end users and to reduce their up and down bandwidth usage outside of their own nexus clouds. Yes GSI still registers hits, but not necessarily U/D consumption.
Still most companies offer very large bandwidth packages these days. The Three gig limit I mentioned is the Sympatico smallest pack. Most compains will have larger packages for email accounts ans these in turn come with very large bandwidth packages. While mine is unlimited now, it once was 15 gig, and the site it serviced have video and large graphical galleries. The video was the killer, but when I eliminated the video from the stats, the volume of traffic that 15 Gig could handle was insane.
Also most web servers are pushing compressed data as well.
If the internet didn’t operate with caching, compression, there simply would be enough bandwidth.
Oh, almost forgot, your own browser will cach as well. so even if you are bypassing the ISP caches you still only download the changes,
I used to do a lot of hiking in Waterton — Glacier International Peace Park during the 80s, particularly in Glacier. (It has since been designated a UNESCO World Heritage site, and rightly so — even back then, Banff was way too commercial for my tastes). Anyway, like the name suggests, the Montana contribution to this combined park is famous for its glaciers. In high summer, sometimes a tunnel would open up beneath Grinnel Glacier, the ice equivalent to the lava tubes one finds in Hawaii. While wet and messy, it was still a thrill to be able to walk hunched underneath a glacier. Twenty-five years later, one would have to pack a life jacket: that ice is now gone.
The link below shows a series of 20 photos, before-and-after views of various glaciers within the park, each separated from its counterpart by a period of many decades. Grinnell Glacier can be seen in image 11 and 12. In image 11, it is clearly an ice field, in image 12, a lake. Someone has taken those two images and through morphing has simulated the retreat over time; the video is posted on YouTube (next link). The amount of warming in Glacier over the past century has been pegged at 3 degrees Fahrenheit, according to the USGS..
http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagegallery/igviewer.php?imgid=626&gid=42&index=0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-idoXVwntsE
There are other weaknesses in Dion’s plan, in my opinion, but the treatment of rurals seems to me the thing that makes it a non-starter.
By Lawrence on 06.24.08 7:32 pm
“Rurals”? Sounds like you’re talking people from another country, not of many Canadians who live outside of Canadian urban centers i.e., most of Canada. Is “Rurals” a term used by Census Canada? Is there a “Rurals” designation on Income Tax forms?
Fret none or very little, the “Rurals” will let Stephen Harper and Stephane Dion exactly what they think of their respective plans.
What? Stephen Harper has a plan planned for October 2009?
Lots of “Rurals’ could have a lot of water under the bridge by then, so don’t be surprised if the “Rurals” look at the plan that has been put forth by the not-government.
Can’t stop them “Rurals” from looking and seeing, eh?
The “Rurals” will decide which “treatment” they’re up for. Got it?
And the sad thing is any legal recourse will be before a liberal appointed judge. We know how that will turn out.
By Janice on 06.24.08 8:37 pm
Janice you sound like your shouting. Calm down gal. Sorry PMSH just doesn’t have a plan. Is that why you are so angry. Maybe you should head your head out of the sand and look at some of your own party’s missteps, to put it very mildly.
It is so sad and weird that someone would do that to an animal that is so trusting.
Okay I have rambled a bit, my point is the site that barks is when we allow a disturbed person to limit our ability to feel free with our best friend.
By Bonnie N BC on 06.24.08 7:31 pm
Yes Bonnie – truly sad. I just cannot understand how someone could do such a thing to someones loving family pet & companion. Unfortunately, there are many maladjusted (sp?) people in this world.
By Ron p on 06.24.08 8:06 pm
End result , we couldn’t care less about you.
………………………………….
Screw you Ron .. and I don’t expect any answer from the neuro-psycho-whackos and the assigned Liberal trools from Liberal HQ who monitor this fine forum and cringe because our MP Garth dares publish dissenting viewpoints.
I believe there is a very large lurking audience to this weblog, and it is they who must answer to the questions I am posing. Also Garth is free to respond if he vehemently disagrees with my comment.
Don’t have to read much beyond the headline, so when this drivel is all over, TH-TH-TH-THAT’S ALL FOLKSSS!
http://tinyurl.com/638bvy
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As I previously mentioned, here is more icing on the cake, courtesy Wall St.
“The time has come the walrus said, to talk of many things: Of corrections, portfolios and window dressing — of market cycles, wizards and reality.”
http://tinyurl.com/58s6tg
No doubt this will add more fuel to the fire! Ahhh, nothing could be finer than burning in hell . . . ooohh, I forgot, this IS hell and we’re all fried green tomatoes!
http://tinyurl.com/4qnlb7
Oh and Ben, in my original post there was an error. It should have read “unique hits” and not “visitors”. sorry about the mistake. Doing the math on vistors would be very different, since a vistor would generate main “hits”. That aside, even if GSI is experiencing dangerous traffic loads, I have yet to meet an Hoster or ISP that will not allow a client to up their hosting package on the fly. I have had to do more than once before for myself and myself and some of my clients, and it always turned out to be over kill in the end.
All that aside, GSI is more like experiencing phone and email overload, which is more likely causing them man power pains
Green Shift vs The Green Shift
Initially this didn’t sit well, and the dismissive attitudes being expressed about it here still don’t. But neither does the making of political hay with the site’s owner as pawn.
That said, domain names are treated differently than organization names, with a looser set of rules; they are not the same as trademarks unless the owner has explicitly registered them as such. The title of a song, a movie, a book, or in this case of a policy/report is not sacrosanct and can be used by another of the same type. In this case, I would presume that the Liberals first wrote their policy paper, entitled it “The Green Shift” and then sought to use that same name for their website. Another existed with a similar name, and while that presents a dilemma, it is not unheard of in the web and publishing world.
Media Site That Covers Whitehouse Activity:
http://www.whitehouse.com
Spoof Site That Parodies Whitehouse Activity:
http://www.whitehouse.org
The Bona Fide Whitehouse Site:
http://www.whitehouse.gov
Seems likely that the Cons swarmed the Green Shift website and phones, scaring the wits out of a small business person.
Hopefully buying the barbecue supplies from them would make the situation right. Nonetheless, someone from the Liberals really ought to set up a face-to-face meeting with Ms. Wright. I would highly recommend M. Dion since he is so capable and sincere. Although there are many capable and skilled negotiators.
Imagine getting thousands of hits from the Blogging Tories. It would cause anyone to despair.
Let’s resolve the issue and get on with having a discussion and debate about the elements of The Green Shift plan.
I’m disturbed that some people think that the tax on emissions, carbon, etc. are going to be a problem. Specifically the Greg Weston article. The hew and cry that will result in Ontario will once and for all get that darned plant at Nanticoke shut down. And Weston thinks this is a problem. I emphatically don’t think this is a problem.
I want my wee granddaughter to be able to breathe.
Yes, saving the environment is not going to be cheap. Let’s just get busy doing it instead of using fear mongering to scare people into doing nothing. Greg Weston has pointed to a problem so let’s get our minds around fixing it.
Also that Weston would try to say that Dion specifically chose a plan that only benefit Quebec is disingenuous and does not add to the debate. WE, as in all of us, have allowed these resource and oil companies to dull our senses and lull us into complacent inaction. The last thing we need now is scare tactics.
Too bad, Greg Weston didn’t see fit to offer a solution instead. We need to think of solutions.
I am curious too, why are 32% of Conservatives (their words not mine) in support…let’s see 66 % Liberals + 32% Conservatives…is that 2 short of 100%
Lib% * .66 + Cons% *.32 is nowere close to 100% of population.
If we keep it simple and assume 50% of the population is liberal and 50% is conservative we get:
.50 * .66 + .50 * .32 = .49 or 49% of the population agreeing with the green shi[a,f]t plan.
Gee Conbots you certainly have become vertical all of a sudden. Did you suggest ‘RCMP, handcuffs in front of clients’ or was it a ‘lucrative contract’?
I kind of feel sorry for her. She must have endured quite a bit of vitriol from the Harper adulated prostrates.
The Conbots must be worried….LMFAO
BTW, I think the bandwagon has started. ZENN Motors just sent me an email (I’m on their list ’cause I want a zero emission no noise car) to announce a 3 year pilot project to allow ZENN cars on the roads in Quebec.
I can hardly wait for this to come to Ontario. In fact, I think I’ll write to Dalton and see if he’ll be announcing this next week.
Yaay for Canadian ingenuity!
Harry S, aka Uhoho, aka Observant {and lord knowns how many sock puppets he has} is a legend in his own mind,… small mind,… small legend.
You’re just a mad dancing monkey Harry
In my remarks above I was not clear the 23″ shrinkage was in the thickness of the ice cap. Two feet of Greenland’s surface ice is now in the ocean in just one year!
Zorpheous
I am intimately familiar with various cache management structures, including but not limited to Proxy based and browser based cache storage techniques.
It doesn’t change the fact that the potential exists for this domain name owner (greenshift.ca) to suddenly find their bandwidth limits exceeded when people attempting to find Dion’s thegreenshift.ca end up at greenshift.ca by mistake.
These actions by the Liberal party will likely cost greenshift.ca real money.
Your math was wrong as you now no doubt realize. It would not take “100 million hits” for this to happen as you mistakenly claimed.
Aside from the fundamental fact that the Liberal party is trying to misappropriate the intellectual property of a private company in a heavy handed manner more suited to the Harper Goon Squad, these potential costs to greenshift.ca could be reflected as part of a potential damage claim should greenshift.ca decide to pursue their legal options. Add to that goodwill, lost business opportunity, expenses, punitive damages, etc. etc. This could end up costing the Liberals in my opinion.
In fact I think it already has cost plenty.
Allowing this situation to fester and dominate in the media has likely diluted the initial strong and clear message that Dion delivered concerning our environment and his plan. A plan that I support.
This is the only plan being offered at present (Harper and his goon squad have nothing but an oil splotch to offer) and the Liberal party has in my opinion foolishly and even recklessly squandered their strong lead position.
They’ve helped the Harper Goon Squad to divert attention from the plan to the Intellectual Property issue.
That is the truly sad part. Given the facts as presented so far it was an obvious mistake in the making and the Liberals handed that mistake to Harper on a silver platter.
I think that was just plain stupid and should not have happened the way that it did. This was obviously going to become an issue, and it could have been handled properly and in fact could have even been given a positive spin.
Unfortunately it seems to me that heavy handed bullying by the Liberal party has negated that possibility.
Like many, I had hoped that the Liberals were above Harper style bully tactics.
Catherine: Only 32% of Liberals are not buying into it.
But 32% of Conservatives are buying into it. That’s a huge number of converts to the Liberal policy.
Aren’t you wondering who all those Conservatives are who believe that Dion has a better environmental plan than Harper?
Con-bot tough guys and he-men . Better known as life long losers .
Spit all the venom and bile you want it will never change the fact that the Liberal ‘Green Plan ‘ is a winner .
The all clown party has had two years to address the problem and they came up with a big, fat doughnit hole .Zero .
Intensity based targets are not targets at all ,it is simply moving the finishing line further down the track .
Your reps were laughed out of Bali causing a major embarassment for Canada Baird and Ambrose are totally incompetent . .
Way to go.
You belong to a cult of personality . Except your leader is totally deficient in personality other than the image he created with collusion from the media hacks . our.country’s alleged leader uses mass media to create a heroic public image through unquestioning flattery and praise.
Dictatorship refers to an autocratic form of absolute rule by leadership unrestricted by law, constitutions, or other social and political factors within the state.
Your hero worship is disgustingly,oily and childish in the extreme .
Unlike the party of con-bots ,Liberals are all adults and behave accordingly .
The maturity level is night and day .
All comments from con-bot are tainted by this cult like adherence to con-bot ideology and hero worship .
Totalitarian systems and regimes of government, that seek to radically alter or transform society according to revolutionary new ideas. Often, a single leader becomes associated with this revolutionary transformation, and he becomes treated as a benevolent “guide” for the nation, without whom the transformation to a better future cannot occur.
He is no God-King he has no mandate from heaven and a very thin margin of people who support his madness .
As he wishes to become all things to all people and he believes he is infallible he must be stopped . And the sooner the better .
For those of you who are not Prairie born and brought up, it maybe appropriate to mention that not all of the glacier melt water runs off in rivers out across the Prairies and Parklands into Hudson’s Bay. A great portion of it runs under ground in what is described as the great underground river or aquafer. Once the glaciers are gone, many Prairie towns and villages plus farm yards are going to be very short of well water. When I read about Premier Brad Wall announcing that he is proposing a nuclear power plant for Lloydminster, where I grew up, but many years later have worked part time in Pickering, Darlington, Lampton, Lakeview, and Bath power plants, I was totally amazed at that statement. Lloyd was historically been short of water and it was loaded with lime and iron. More recently they have pumped and piped water in from the river sand beds near the North Sask. river. The only place that would be reasonable to build a nuke would be on the North Sask. possibly near North Battleford. It does not take a nuclear scientist to know when a politician is out of his depth and not technically competent! When the glaciers are mostly melted the Prairie cities of Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Prince Albert, etc. will have serious water shortages, especially after Winters with low snow falls. for those of you who wish to find fault, place blame, and make snide remarks, I suggest you start looking at the future with some rational thinking. We will be facing food prices and shortages that will make today’s gasoline prices look very minor. Use some of your ingenuity towards solving the problem(s), instead of languishing way back on the learning curve amongst ludites. This problem is not the fault of any political party, or one government, it is the fault of the human species, the first animal in the history of the planet to change the environment for personal gain but to the detriment of all of the plants and animals! If it was a challenge from an alien species from outer space, there would be a sudden unified response to the threat, but when the problem is self inflicted, we appear not to recognize or respond for fear that some one else will benefit at our expense. Eintein said something about that. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and again expecting to get different results is insanity.Go figure.
We need to think of solutions.
By Deb Prothero on 06.24.08 9:50 pm
Nanticoke and the others will have to go. The area is already requesting that the province locate “the alternative” in that area. Due to the unreliability of wind [except the gale force winds of Harry S, Catherine and the unburnable SLUDGE SLIDE Leasa] the only real alternative being examined is nuclear.
I think Weston provided a terrific report. He always tries to provide a fulsome and objective level of reporting. We have to decide what we want … and that has to happen SOON.
Hydro bills are based upon level of usage. We always try to conserve. The average usage level ideal used to be 750KwH per month. For whatever the replacement is –nuclear, or other– there will be debt financing on the bills. … There’s no way around it.
C.R.A.P./S.H.I.T’s approach is to delay–delay-delay, while attempting to obscure the fact they’ve done NOTHING to address these problems.
Where’s their plan? Why aren’t they disclosing their itemized alternatives, rather than talking about ‘aspirational targets,’ which would not be in place until 2010. Why aren’t they participating in the debate?
So, is Harry S telling us anything NEW when he says we’ll be bearing the costs?
After reading through all the posts that had some thoughtful debate in arguments in them, it dawned on me…
Mr. Dion’s plan is certainly not perfect. However, at least it’s a plan. I haven’t seen much from the reformers other than breaking the law by not supporting, or living up to Kyoto, which was passed by a majority of MP’s in the House of Commons.
Wouldn’t it be novel to support Mr. Dion’s plan as a starting point, with others building upon it.
The trolls seem to have no issue telling us what they don’t like, but can’t seem to communicate what it is they do like. Reminds me of my kids when they were much younger.
Here’s a challenge… let’s think about what is good for Canada and Canadians, regardless of your party.
So what we only produce 2% of global GHG! Isn’t it responsible to reduce our footprint if we can do so?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and again expecting to get different results is insanity.Go figure.
By James R. McGillawee on 06.24.08 10:35 pm
I experienced the dust storms out there.
After the wind died down, you were forced to clear the accumulation with
damp cloths … Or the RSM was onto you big time. The locale and people formed a large part of an enjoyably youthful experience.
Richest 10% create bigger ecological footprint
TORONTO – The richest 10 percent of Canadians create a bigger ecological footprint – a whopping 66 percent higher – than the average Canadian household, says a new study by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (CCPA).
The study, Size Matters: Canada’s Ecological Footprint, By Income, is the first Canadian study to link national income and consumption patterns with global warming.
“When we look at where the environmental impact of human activity comes from, we see that size really does matter,” says Hugh Mackenzie, CCPA research associate. “Higher-income Canadians create a much bigger footprint than poorer Canadians.”
Among the study’s findings:
The richest 10% of Canadian households create an ecological footprint of 12.4 hectares per capita – nearly two-and-a-half times that of the poorest 10%.
While the size of an individual’s ecological footprint increases as household income increases, the real jump is at that top 10% level. When it comes to environmental impact, it really is a case of the rich and the rest of us.
The bottom 60% of Canadian households’ ecological footprint is below the national average but even the lowest-income Canadians create an ecological footprint that is several times the average for those in poorer nations.
“All Canadians share responsibility for global warming,” says co-author Rick Smith, executive director of Environmental Defence. “But wealthier Canadians are leaving behind a disproportionately larger footprint – and should be expected to make a disproportionate contribution to its reduction.”
Mackenzie says the study contains lessons for policy makers: “Clearly ecological impact is stongly related to income. Greenhouse gas emissions policies should reflect that reality or risk being less effective and unfair to low- and middle-class Canadians.”
–30–
Size Matters: Canada’s Ecological Footprint, By Income is available from the CCPA web site at http://www.policyalternatives.ca
–
I hear on the grapevine that Harper may be shuffling his cabinet tomorrow. Comments?
By C. B. Innes on 06.24.08 6:21 pm
Just get Guergis out of there before she succeeds in killing any of our troops!
Besides, the poor wee thing is desperate to get married (in Mexico), so let her go!
“This scene of boreal bliss greets visitors at http://www.greenshift.ca. ”
Just out of curiosity Garth. . .Did you seek out and (more importantly) obtain the appropriate permissions from Green Shift (and/or the legitimate copyright holders) to take that image from their site and use it here on your own?
Catherine: Only 32% of Liberals are not buying into it.
But 32% of Conservatives are buying into it. That’s a huge number of converts to the Liberal policy.
Aren’t you wondering who all those Conservatives are who believe that Dion has a better environmental plan than Harper?
By Judy on 06.24.08 10:26 pm
Then let’s go to the polls!
Growing public concern about Canada’s number one source of greenhouse gas emissions….. rather than actually try and fix the problem the Alberta response is typical… spend $25 million on a PR campaign.
U.S. mayors call for boycott of Alberta oilsands
Alberta politicians and oil producers are fighting back at a resolution passed by U.S. mayors calling for a boycott of fuel from Alberta’s oilsands.
At their annual meeting in Florida, the American mayors passed a resolution that urges major American cities to ban the use of fuel from the oilsands in municipal vehicles.
The mayors claim that producing oil from the oilsands emits three times as much carbon dioxide into the environment as conventional oil production.
Calgary’s mayor responded to the resolution by inviting the mayors to visit Alberta and learn more about the province’s oil industry.
“When you have an important group such as this one passing a resolution saying do not use Alberta oil from the oilsands, I think it’s important to us that we wake up and say this is an early warning and a signal,” Dave Bronconnier told CTV Calgary’s Kevin Green.
Alberta Finance Minister Iris Evans was angered by the news of the resolution, and said it is the result of a lack of understanding of how Alberta produces oil.
“It offends me deeply to hear people say dirty oil,” Evans said.
However, Pierre Alvarez of the Canadian Association of Oil Producers, said such a resolution would be almost impossible to enforce because a litre of fuel cannot be traced back to the oil from which it was produced.
Alvarez said his organization needs to do a better job of educating people about the environmental impact of oil production.
“We’ve been great at talking about the economic issues,” said Alvarez. “I think maybe we need to spend a little more time talking about the environmental issues.”
Most of Alberta’s $11 billion in oil revenue comes from the oilsands, but Alvarez said the resolution won’t have an economic impact.
However, the Sierra Club of Canada believes the controversy surrounding the oilsands will only grow.
“I wouldn’t be surprised, particularly with an American election coming up later this year, if this became more of an issue,” said the Sierra Club’s Grady Semmens.
Oilsands production is expected to triple over the next seven years, which means that emissions will grow as well. However, Alberta’s energy minister is expected to announce new carbon capture and storage technology that will help curb emissions.
Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach said that the province was first to issue levies on emissions.
“We’re doing cumulative environmental impact assessments both in the oilsands and also in the industrial heartland,” Stelmach told The Canadian Press. “We’re the only jurisdiction in Canada to put forward a land-use framework and also our water-for-life strategy is well ahead of many jurisdictions in North America.”
According to The Canadian Press, Alberta has lowered emissions per barrel of oil by 45 per cent and has collected $40 million from companies that failed to meet emission targets.
However, the province has had to launch a publicity campaign to stem the tide of bad publicity that international environmental groups have given its oil industry.
With a report from CTV Calgary’s Kevin Green and files from The Canadian Press.
James, thanks for that thoughtful and informative posting, and looking at things as a system rather than in isolation.
I am curious too, why are 32% of Conservatives (their words not mine) in support…let’s see 66 % Liberals + 32% Conservatives…is that 2 short of 100%
Lib% * .66 + Cons% *.32 is nowere close to 100% of population.
If we keep it simple and assume 50% of the population is liberal and 50% is conservative we get:
.50 * .66 + .50 * .32 = .49 or 49% of the population agreeing with the green shi[a,f]t plan.
By LiberalTaxman on 06.24.08 9:58 pm
Yes very true, BUT, you left out the percentage of NDP and Greenies who support the Green Shift, I didn’t include them because my point was to countact Catherines but with them included the plan has garnered majority support.
I believe there is a very large lurking audience to this weblog, and it is they who must answer to the questions I am posing. Also Garth is free to respond if he vehemently disagrees with my comment.
By Harry S on 06.24.08 9:14 pm
Garth already has a full time job, why would he want another taking up his time, especially such a needy person on the other end, I think Garth would be wise to ignore you and as for the general population reading here, it might take them a whole day to recognize insanity.
As I point out now and then, the CPC method (party and trolling supporters) is to pick flyshit out of Liberal pepper, magnify it into molehills, and blow those up into mountains.
The subject and most of the 200 comments of this thread prove it once again. Over two years into forming a government, this seems to be all the neo-Republican movement in Canada is capable of. And this sad bunch of bastards wants to stay in power!
ERASE THE DISGRACE – ÉCRASEZ L’INFÂMIE!
By James R. McGillawee on 06.24.08 10:35 pm
James, thanks for that thoughtful and informative posting, and looking at things as a system rather than in isolation.
By Dube on 06.25.08 5:37 am
I appreciate the recognition, mon frer.
Did I forget to mention that the level of thinking and analysis of problems that got the world to this state is inadequate and incapable of resolving the current projected crises? The solutions will require much more than a Green Shift by Canadians when you consider the current factoid where there are 20 new coal fired power plants coming on line per week in all of India and China. If this is accurate, it is a staggering statistic. Finger pointing by Bush, Harper, et al will not solve the demand by those millions of Asians who do not yet have access to electricity and want it now! Again, I ask what will doubling the world population achieve in this regime of declining environmental criteria? If we as a species do not recognize and act on precipitous emergencies, then when geopolitical stresses surpass the fuse point, there will be a nuclear world war over food, potable water, and energy supplies. Your classic 50’s bomb shelters will not be adequate to outlast the results, in my opinion. And our PM appointed who to represent us in the world of diplomacy and negotiations? Duh!
Unwanted Politics
To all who are visiting this site in interest of what is happening to Green Shift, and/or are questioning whether we have a tie to the Liberal Party of Canada, we want to be very clear – our mission is to help the environment, not to get dragged down by political baggage that we cannot control.
The fact that the Liberal Party of Canada has used our name for their environmental plan is, to say the least, extremely upsetting, and damaging to the reputation that we uphold. We sincerely apologize to all of the businesses, institutions and individuals who are a part of the real Green Shift and sincerely hope that you will not suffer from anyone accidentally thinking that you have ties to a political agenda.
We sincerely appreciate all of the heart felt calls and emails that we have received from people who understand why this is upsetting, and the damage that this has caused.
For those who are angry at us for thinking that we have teamed up with the Liberal party, and/or their newly devised plan, we sincerely hope that everyone will help us to set the record straight, and help us to prevent the fall out.
For the record, we were notified by the Liberal Party the evening before they launched their campaign. They presented it to us in a fashion that implied that we should be happy by all of the extra traffic that we would receive as a result. We immediately notified them that we would take action to protect the name and the integrity that we have associated with it, and that we were not interested in receiving misdirected traffic. We began by politely asking. After receiving calls from the media, we contacted the Liberal party to ask again that they please stop using a name that we have clearly associated with our environmental program, to prevent confusion. Only after they refused to stop, did we decide to send a legal notice. We never did call the media – we simply received a flood of calls, thanked all of the concerned businesses/individuals/institutions etc., and gave honest answers to any media that reached us with questions.
I suppose that it should come as no surprise that there will naturally, sadly, always be, those who instead can only see the cheap side – that is – suggesting that we would be happy with this misdirected attention. For anyone who knows us, we have plenty of positive attention directed at our own work, we are not looking for any undeserved thanks or criticisms. Quite simply, we believe in credit where credit is due, and have no interest in receiving credit or criticism where it is not due.
Well, sadly it seems that we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t. I guess for now, all we can say is that in our view, this is an unwanted distraction to the bigger and more important goal at hand. For those who cannot see that – well – for the good of the environment, and the sake of the other species on this planet, we hope that one day you will understand.
Copyright Green Shift 2001-2007
………………..
http://www.greenshift.ca/greenshift_unwanted_politics.html
This is taken from the Green Shift™ Inc. website, and presumably written by the owner-environmentalist Jennifer Wright.
That lovely pastoral photo is a stock image from the sample folder of the Adobe CS install. While the lawsuits are flying, maybe Adobe might want a piece of the action too.
[...] names is the three letter word – ‘the’. MP Garth Turner gives the Liberal party side in the site that barked. Inside the Queensway has the time-line. I’m with JimBobby on this one, as unpleasant as the [...]
Oh, I doubt Adobe needs to launch a lawsuit against dear ol’ Garth. I am sure that is exactly where he acquired that image from. . . a sample folder found within his legally licensed install of Adobe CS.
Right Garth?
Jennifer has now been sucked into something that she obviously doesn’t appreciate and never wanted. It’s really unfair for you to take swipes at her just because she doesn’t rationalize it like you guy do. Now her energy and her focus is tied up in this. It is not exactly what a small but bourgeoning business owner would deem a blessing. Regardless of what you may think. You have negatively and unjustly impacted her business.
A carbon tax is a no-brainer. Although yours is not as good as the Green Party’s, I commend you guys for doing it. But a last minute “heads-up” to Jennifer who had the foresight to get on this stuff long before you did, and then steamrolling and smearing her is really low and really unfortunate.
I plan on starting a a company that has nothing to do with politics, but it will provide services for political parties.
I plan on calling it ‘the liberal partie’ (oneword – the dotca is available) not ‘The Liberal Party.’ I can obtain those links legally too. I’ll put a link at the bottom of my website so no one will get them confused…. based on your logic here Garth. I won’t receive a cease and desist order, I won’t get sued, the liberal party should be happy I’ll be sending traffic their way. We all know thats just silly.
By any estimation she has a case here, though proving damages in the order she is will probably not take place. But your logic on why she shouldn’t care is silly.
It’s a real shame that you are upset because you liberal thieves got caught and are now going to have to pay. 8 million is a bunch, especially when you only have 4.5 in the bank. Tough to fight an election on your mastercard.
As to your threats against Ms Wright, it’s about what one would expect from someone of your ilk.