One of our first dual citizens. I think he also held public office.
I notice some idiots on this blog have referenced Stephane Dion’s dual citizenship, a gift he inherited from his mother. Here are some other sitting MPs (I’m not sure I got them all, by party first elected with), who were not born in Canada. They seem to have little trouble putting their constituents, and their nation, before the country of their birth. — Garth
Karygiannis, Jim Liberal Party of Canada Greece
Volpe, Giuseppe (Joseph) Liberal Party of Canada Italy
Ablonczy, Diane Reform Party United States
Barnes, Susan (Sue) Liberal Party of Canada Malta
Cannis, John Liberal Party of Canada Greece
Chan, Raymond Liberal Party of Canada China
Dhaliwal, Harbance Singh (Herb) Liberal Party of Canada India
Discepola, Nunzio (Nick) Liberal Party of Canada Italy
Fry, Hedy Liberal Party of Canada Trinidad
Malhi, Gurbax Singh Liberal Party of Canada India
Martin, Keith P. Reform Party England
Mercier, Paul Bloc Québécois Belgium
Minna, Maria Liberal Party of Canada Italy
Nunez, Osvaldo Bloc Québécois Chile
Telegdi, Andrew Liberal Party of Canada Hungary
Thompson, Myron Reform Party United States
Williams, John G. Reform Party Scotland
Davies, Libby New Democratic Party England
Folco, Raymonde Liberal Party of Canada France
Grewal, Gurmant Singh Reform Party India
Jaffer, Rahim Reform Party Uganda
Mark, Inky Reform Party China
Obhrai, Deepak Reform Party Tanzania
Stoffer, Peter Arend New Democratic Party Netherlands
Toews, Vic Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance Paraguay
Dosanjh, Ujjal Liberal Party of Canada India
Fletcher, Steven John Conservative Party of Canada (2003) Brazil
Grewal, Nina Conservative Party of Canada (2003) Japan
Khan, Wajid Liberal Party of Canada Pakistan
Kotto, Maka Bloc Québécois Cameroon
Martin, Tony New Democratic Party Ireland
Ratansi, Yasmin Liberal Party of Canada Tanzania
Rodriguez, Pablo Liberal Party of Canada Argentina
Savage, Michael John Liberal Party of Canada Northern Ireland
Silva, Mario Liberal Party of Canada Portugal
Temelkovski, Lui Liberal Party of Canada Macedonia
Alghabra, Omar Liberal Party of Canada Saudi Arabia
Barbot, Vivian Bloc Québécois Haiti
Chow, Olivia New Democratic Party China
Clement, Tony Conservative Party of Canada (2003) England
Dhaliwal, Sukh Liberal Party of Canada India
Petit, Daniel Conservative Party of Canada (2003) Belgium
Thi Lac, Ève-Mary Thaï Bloc Québécois Vietnam
157 comments ↓
First off – nobody cares.
Second – it’s not a gift. Stephane Dion literally still had to apply to get it.
Third – nobody cares – unless he starts to align himself and his policies with France.
Fourth – he doesn’t understand the western Canadian people. If he understood, he would not have made such a statement about “university jobs” and his Carbon Tax impact on Saskachewans booming economy.
Nice post Garth. Sometimes people need to have their eyes forcibly “opened” to see the true wonders of our ethnic/cultural mosaic. Vive la Canada!
Merci! Thank you!
Stuff these pathetically arrogant and stubborn idiots, who take issue with dual citizenship, as well as other nonsense.
This time, they deserve to be completely ignored forever — they contribute nothing to society, but take as much as they can.
THESE are the leeches, the plagues of locusts who feed from the public trough, annoy us with their verbal diarrhea and try to make life miserable for all until they get their own way.
Ain’t gonna happen, so rot in hell, you worthless scumbags!
I noticed you neglected to mention how many of the above MPs have dual citizenship. Where they were born is not the issue. The issue is should our PM have dual citizenship. I happen to be one of your so called idiots who thinks not.
First of all not one of the above members have ever been nor likely ever will be PM of Canada. Dion aspires to be the PM of Canada. There is a big big difference which seems to escape your brain. Our Pm must not only not have a conflict of interest, nor a possible conflict of interest but not even an appearance of a conflict of interest.
So Garth, and to use your own words you must be one of the idiots who just don’t get it that if Dion ever becomes our PM he must resign his French citizenship just as our current Governor General did when she took the oath of office. She has set the precedence and any party leader who wishes to become PM must take their cue from her example. The right thing for our GG to do is also the right thing for our PM to do as well
According to you and the Liberal party there is no doubt that he will attain that office so he must also do the right thing and resign his French citizenship upon taking the oath of office.
The G-G represents the Queen. The PM represents the people. And you may be gobsmacked to find out, but they were not all born here. — Garth
annoy us with their verbal diarrhea and try to make life miserable for all until they get their own way.
Ain’t gonna happen, so rot in hell, you worthless scumbags!
By Charles Oxley on 06.28.08 9:24 pm
Why don’t you stick your comments where the sun doesn’t shine Charles. Talk about verbal diarrhea. Look in the mirror. The only idiots on this blog are those who do not tolerate and opposite opinion and that includes Garth’s poor attempt to humiliate others who differs from him. As for your comments I just consider the source and move on.
Garth: I’ll bet that none of the above can name the gentleman in the picture.
Second – it’s not a gift. Stephane Dion literally still had to apply to get it.
By Catherine on 06.28.08 9:20 pm
_______________________________________
Catherine, I believe you will find that a parent applies for this citizenship for the child.
What a wonderful gift to a son.
I have friends that were born just by chance in the US of parents who were Canadian residents.
How so very wonderful for them.
At 06.28.08 9:24 pm Charles Oxley foams at the mouth; …rot in hell, you worthless scumbags!
I have a hard time understanding how someone can spew that kind of stupidity and not be embarassed by it. You can state a strong opinion without becoming emotionally unhinged. You just have to learn how to express yourself clearly. Try harder to control your rage – or better yet – find some healthy outlet for it.
I knew we had M.P.s with multiple citizenship, I just had no idea we had so many and from such a mix of countries. We should all be proud of these M.P.s successful lives they have made themselves in Canada.
The G-G represents the Queen. The PM represents the people. And you may be gobsmacked to find out, but they were not all born here. — Garth
She is also our head of state and is one of the 3 elements of parliament which makes her decision to renounce her French citizenship even more important.
Secondly, In Dion’s case he would contravening with a section of the French civil code which forbids French citizens from holding government or military positions in other countries.
So like I said before. Where people were born is not the issue. In fact I could care less where they were born. For me the issue is: SHOULD OUR PM HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP? That is the question. Address it why don’t you instead trying to deflect and confuse the issue with comments about where people were born.
Seems as if harpo’s and dimdum’s economic policies — a strong dollar is a good dollar — work just fine for their masters — carney first, then DC.
http://tinyurl.com/6jexvm
*******************************************
Goes with the link I posted a few days ago re: a major fiscal meltdown happening a lot sooner than expected.
“. . . The situation in the US is much worse than we thought”, says Fortis chairman Maurice Lippens. Fortis expects bankruptcies amongst 6000 American banks which have a small coverage currently. But also Citigroup, General Motors, there is starting a complete meltdown in the US”.
http://tinyurl.com/4g4lpm
It’s Canada Day weekend!
In a country of equals we don’t have some that are more equal than others. We are all the same.
I love Canada and for everything she stands for.
What a great country!
Van: Why do you believe that denouncing citizenship will automatically imply non-allegiance to a specific country?
After all it is really only paper work.
So, if Dion becomes Prime Minister (yeah!!!) denounces his French citizenship and then proceeds to make lucrative trade deals with France, will that be O.K. with you? After all he denounced his citizenship didn’t he?
Many see Harper as pro-American–perhaps he is being influenced by those in his caucus who were born in the United States—is this O.K. with you?
A tempest in a teapot.
Van: Would you vote for an M.P. knowing he had dual citizenship? Or would you insist that any candidate be exclusively a citizen of Canada?
We all have roots in foreign countries—will you insist that all Canadians denounce their country of birth–how else can you ensure loyalty to Canada?
Forgot, it’s Sir John A.( I forget the last name but it’s Scottish.
Martin, Keith P. Reform Party England
posted by Garth Turner on 06.28.08 @ 9:08 pm
Hey Garth, is there a message in there? Your colleague Dr. Martin is in fact a liberal MP. Maybe you didn’t get the memo. He is the guy 2 seats down from you in caucus.
Your hatred for Reformers has been duly noted in past blogs. Is Dr. Martin one of those whom you despise?
Speaking of Dr. Martin, he has put forward a non partisan motion to eliminate subsection 13 of the HRC Act.
Of course we all know Dion has turned it partisan because he doesn’t know how to do what is right for Canadians.
Mr Turner, where do you stand regarding Dr Martin’s motion?
My blog stated that listed MPs are identified by the party first elected with, in this case Reform. How does that possibly equate with hatred, other than yours? — Garth
So, Garth, Canadians are now idiots for asking questions? BTW…once again you avoided as do all liberals the question I asked:
Why did France allow Dion to KEEP his citizenship? They ruled on the GG, what was Dion’s ruling? It is against the law in France for a citizen to keep their citizenship and work for a foreign government, unless they can plead their case and get the French Government to give them a special pass.
Dion was appointed to Chretien’s cabinet and has worked for a foreign government since. Why did France allow him to keep it?
THAT was and still is my question.
Why do liberals call other CND citizens bigot, idiots, Nazis etc every single time they are asked a question they don’t like?
I know you won’t answer the question either. Now, call me an idiot…as I know you will.
Some democracy you promote in the Liberal view.
Leasa
Garth, And if PMSH had duel American Citizenship the LPC would just let that pass.
The G-G represents the Queen. The PM represents the people. And you may be gobsmacked to find out, but they were not all born here. — Garth
I agree with Garth, I’ve met a few people with dual nationality and they seem OK to me.
Gord.
Interesting, although not altogether surprising. Odd that you didn’t include John Turner. He was born in Surrey, England you know. Another PM with dual citizenship.
Yes, but he is not a sitting MP. — Garth
The philosophy that I represent has not been tried and found wanting. It has not been wanted, and so has been left untried.
Yet I can give evidence of how it is working within the spheres of influence of people that I know who are putting words and actions together.
For example, my son is the chief of staff for the mayor of one of Canada’s largest cities. This city has a huge gang problem, and government programs have uniformly fallen short of what is needed for the simple reason that gang members are looking for family. Lacking caring relationships and family networks, the gang world has become their substitute “family” even though they have to commit crime to simply “belong.”
My son introduced the mayor to a rapper who was a former gang member, and he is reaching out to the inner city youth who are into the world of gangs and drugs, sharing his story, and role modelling to them how to get high on life, and getting into things like rap music instead of drugs.
This rapper is helping many youth to find an alternative lifestyle, and getting them off the streets, and motivating them to reach out to other youth as well who need relationship and simple love, and it isn’t costing the taxpayers a cent.
Enough people believe in what this rapper is doing that he has raised his own support without charging the taxpayers a dime, and he has been able to give himself to reaching out to inner city youth, helping some of them to get a life.
The mayor was so impressed with what this rapper is doing that he asked him to become his campaign co-chairman, to serve as a model to others about what one young man can do to make a difference in the inner city where the crime rate, and the drugs are so great.
Another example of what my son in public life has taught me took place just last Sunday. I was at his house in the inner city, and during the afternoon he took me to a “neighborhood party” that he and his neighbours had organized.
Everybody was invited, and everything was free. There was crafts for the children to make, and other activities for the whole family. The children had a great time interacting together, and the adults had a great time getting to know one another as well.
The day ended with a barbecue where everybody brought enough for themselves, plus some extra so that they would have enough to share with those in need.
Those in that neighbourhood have a sense of community, of togetherness, and they are making a difference. They are not looking to government programs organized by bureaucrats, but the people of that neighbourhood are reaching out personally to one another, creating a sense of community, and making every one feel included and valuable.
The children in a neighbourhood like that will be far less likely to turn to crime, because they have a sense of family, of connectedness, and of community with people that they know love them, and treat them with dignity and respect.
A third example took place just today when I and about 15 others helped a single mother and her children to move to a new location. What would have been an impossible burden for her was made easy through the willing volunteers who freely gave of their time to help.
It didn’t cost the tax-payers a cent. This single mother herself has helped so many others, that when she had a need, others were only too glad to help. She didn’t have to whine and complain about what the government was not doing for her. She doesn’t even look there for her support.
After the move, one of the couples decided to buy pizzas and pop for everybody, and we ended up having a real party, a real celebration.
This single mother has a sense of community, a sense of connection with others. Simply cutting a cheque from the government is truly not a complete answer.
People need relationship, they need friendship, they need personal interaction, they need friendship, they need to feel that their life has significance and value.
Centralized governments are ill-equipped to give people the type of support that they need. The closer we put the responsibility at the personal, family and neighbourhood level, however, the more people’s needs can be met in a holistic way, and in a way that does not cost the tax-payers, and everybody has fun doing things together.
This is the life! I pity those who keep looking to centralized governmetns, only to continue complaining that they are not doing enough.
Your destiny lies in your own hands, not in the government’s hands. You are not a victim of the government, but can choose your own destiny by the choices that you make.
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. If we all were to light just one little candle, what a bright world this would be!
A dream world you ask? No, I am seeing it in operation all around me. I invite you to join me in the party!
Life is a blast!
Some points not covered.
-those listed are Canadians by choice not by accident of birth.
-because the American constitution provides that their presidents must be American born does not apply to their other elected officials and it follows that just because Americans do something does not make it right for Canada to follow suit, in fact it might just be better that we do not.
-When an immigrant to the United States applies for naturalization and thus citizenship, they are required by the laws to renounce all other citizenship(s). This also does not follow that Canadians should require likewise. In fact it is a mark of respect and trust on our part that we do not require new citizens to disavow their heritage.
-personally I remember in public school during the Korean War a teenager from Manchuria who wanted to leave Communism and he walked all the way to Korea and through the warfare lines to be “captured by” Canadian Forces. He was brought to Canada and allowed to come to our school in Lloydminster but was four years behind his age group while he learned English. This man then went on to University on the ROTC plan and graduated as a Professional Engineer. He served in Canada’s Army and in civilian practice, too. I have heard that he is now retired and living somewhere in the West. This man has done more with his life and for his country of choice than several of you whinners put to gether. His nick name when we were playing baseball was “Aw sut up”! Which is what you guys ought to do!
More correctly Canadian, it should be Sir John Eh?
Why do people worry about dual citizenship?
Some politicians advance the idea of globalization. When you have movement of people, money, resources and trade, that would appear to be a political agreement.
We have international trade and security agreements with other countries, joint military exercises and currencies that are moving closer together in value.
So why do people worry about dual citizenship?
“The issue is should our PM have dual citizenship.”
By Van on 06.28.08 9:29 pm
Uhh Van and co…. Garth set a humerous “trap” for you and you fell for it hook line and ……
That’s Sir John A up there in the photo and he along with two other subsequent Prime Ministers were “dual citizens”.
Just a quick recap:
Sir John A MacDonald (Conservative) – Scotland
Alexander MacKenzie (Liberal\Reform) – Scotland
Mackenzie Bowell – (Conservative) – England
Unlike the US I don’t believe Canada has a statute or Constituitional requirement that the Prime Minister can’t be foreign born. This is a tad stricter than giving up one’s second citizenship.
So Van are you saying that you believe a Canadian PM can’t be foreign born, or that it doesn’t matter where they are born just that they are solely Canadian citizens?
And Leasa …. how would Garth know what the French gov’t did/did not do with Dion’s citizenship when he was appointed to Chretien’s cabinet? That’s private info.
To me this type of question is akin to you seeking the release of my tax, credit card or other type of private information without my permission/consent. By what right do you ask for it?
opps forgot to add Turner to my list of foreign born Prime Ministers
FYI … Stephane Dion was born in Quebec City on September 28, 1955 .. a Libra.
The following traits are widely associated with this sign.
* Diplomatic / compromising however possibly manipulative
* Cooperative
* Fair / balanced / impartial
* Idealistic (in relationships)
* Charming
* Easy-going / sociable
* Indecisive / changeable
* Peace loving
* Gullible / influenceable
* Elegant / graceful
* Refined / artistic / good taste
* Pleasure oriented
* Gentle
* Sensitive to others
* Kind
* Cheerful
* Romantic
* Flirty / frivolous however loyal in marriage
…………………………………
Dion asserts that he was given his French citizenship on birth because his mother was a French citizen. I have no difficulty with this because he was born in Canada and that also means he is a Canadian citizen by location of his birth.
I say let Dion keep his cherished French citizenship and let Canadians fairly decide if they really want him and his Carbon Tax too. Let’s have an election real soon …!!!!
Judy wrote.
>Van: Would you vote for an M.P. knowing >he had dual citizenship? Or would you >insist that any candidate be >exclusively a citizen of Canada?
Yes I would vote for an MP who has dual citizenship if they happen to be a member to the party that I support at the time of the election.
I don’t have a problem with dual citizenship at all except I feel that both our PM and GG and LTG all have single Canadian citizenship for reasons I have stated in my previous posts.
>We all have roots in foreign >countries—will you insist that all >Canadians denounce their country of
Judy I don’t have a problem with dual citizenship at all except I feel that both our PM and GG and LTG all have single Canadian citizenship.
>We all have roots in foreign >countries—will you insist that all >Canadians denounce their country of >birth–how else can you ensure loyalty >to Canada?
Unlike you Judy I don’t insist on anything. I answered your question already. To make it very clear I have never stated or even indicated that Canadians citizens should renounce their other citizenship including MPs.
However I do believe as I have stated earlier that our PM, GG should only have Canadian citizenship because by being so there is no doubt of a possibility of a conflict of interest when they are acting on our behalf on the world stage especially we have disagreements with foreign powers in which there must not even be an appearance of a conflict of interest in the case if a dispute where by the PM or GG has citizenship of that particular country. In Dion’s case this would be France whom we have already had problems with during DeGaul’s Viva Quebec Libre comment during his Quebec visit.I recall the time DeGual stirred up the Seperatist pot and we ended up with cool relations with France for some time after.
How would Dion have reacted in this situation? Could Dion’s dual citizenship be reflected in any decisions he may make? Could he have mixed feelings which may cloud his decisions on the diplomatic front? Why should he put himself in a position real or otherwise that could be seen as a conflict of interest?
Leasa,
Take your question up with the country of France. What does Garth have to do with it?
Don’t you have bigger fish to fry, or corn to grow? You’ve got some of them there dual nationals in your own riding, let alone them that are in the Harper party. Go get ‘em Leasa, for sure none of those guys have delusions of grandeur or designs on the PM office.
They’re not in it for the glory of Canada, or even likely their country of origin, are they Leasa? They’re in it for the pensions that Canadians will be sending them either in Ottawa, cottage country Canada or somewhere like Paraguay.
Does that bother you? If so, a curt, short and sweet letter to Harper should get you the results you demand. Only bona fide Canadians are allowed in office!
Remember to keep copies of your correspondence. I look forward to your reports of the results.
Gak Sheila. You sound like a blasted anarchist! Share with those in need, indeed. Be all you can be, just as long as your church, community or school board agree with you. And you have many single mothers in your community who are ever so helpfully not requiring anything from you. Why would they when the town’s men who fathered the children have blasted off to relieve themselves from any government interference? Faint hope or making the best of a bad situation: you decide.
I hope you chipped in for the pizza, or did it show up magically too in your dream party?
And here just last week you were mis-spelling your own name one out of three posts! Glory Be!
Strange as it may seem, those who worry (spout off) about dual citizenship’s are the first to court the vote of such people.
We have oil at $1.40, food prices escalating, the CPI for last year reported at 2.2% which bears little if no resemblance to the actual cost of living. (one wonders how they arrive at such numbers)
We have gangs in our steets, murders with guns, people driving cars with a cell phone in one ear and a sandwich in the other, people driving while under the influence, and I could go on and on.
And what are we focusing on? Whether someone born or holding dual citizenship should be allowed to be P.M.
Hello Canada!!!
Have a Happy Canada Day all, unless I can get on a wireless, see you in 2 weeks….oh someone will have to watch over Harry…LMAO….
Leasa,
in the spirit of fairness, your non-partisan conscience congratulates you on the fine manner in which your shiny object over there, Dion’s dual citizenship, hijacked one thread and led to a new one devoted to that issue.
Like the man said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Especially one out of ideas and issues.
Leasa, WHY DO YOU COME HERE?
Are you a Crap Party operative?
Are you a social misfit who sadly craves attention and acts out to get it, much like a child taking a tantrum?
Do you crave control and come here to try to attain some sense of that which you lack in “real life”?
It’s amazing to read your posts here. They literally drip in hypocrisy and often in venomous twisted logic.
You’re sad Leasa. I hope somehow you can find your way. Look inside for the answers.
Dion’s dual citizenship is of no concern to me at all. His allegiance to Canada is very obvious.
On the other hand, although he (apparently) does not hold dual citizenship, Herr Harper’s obvious allegiance to AMERICA is obvious, striking, and very deeply disturbing.
Harper seems bent on the destruction of Canada in favour of the “American way”.
I will trust Dion to stand for Canada.
I do not trust Harper to stand for Canada. Not even a little bit.
Regardless of his citizenship, Harper’s allegiance is clearly not to Canada in my opinion.
“I knew we had M.P.s with multiple citizenship, I just had no idea we had so many and from such a mix of countries. We should all be proud of these M.P.s successful lives they have made themselves in Canada.”
By Marc on 06.28.08 9:55 pm
Hear, hear. I had the same thought while reading the list. Dual citizenship is not relevant, it’s the ideas and actions of our elected officials that should occupy our attention.
Catherine, I believe you will find that a parent applies for this citizenship for the child.
What a wonderful gift to a son.
I have friends that were born just by chance in the US of parents who were Canadian residents.
How so very wonderful for them.
By AToryNoMore on 06.28.08 9:52 pm
Not that really care, but, when did Stephane Dion get his citizenship? For my understanding he attended some university in France.
However, it does lead one to question: If Stephane Dion was to become the Canadian Prime Minister, would he be allowed to vote in France’s elections?
Anyway, while my parents were immigrants to Canada (from Europe) and I was born in Canada, I only have one citizenship – Canadian! We always considered ourselves Canadians (and only Canadians) with a european heritage! And I have many, many, family members in Europe.
I would never ever use Canada as a convenience – or for that matter the other country for convenience. My loyalties, love, and concern is for Canada.
I have no problem with dual citizenship.
In going over the list, I see that at least a couple of MPs have dual citizenship in both Canada and the United States.
Even our friend Bill Muskoka has stated, “I, too, have dual citizenship, and I AM Canadian! Do I hope for my country of birth? YES, fervently, that they will return to the principles that began their nation. Principles such as the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of rights, The Consitution…”
We don’t say to such people, “Yankee, go home! You are not true Candians!”
To the contrary, some of those who have dual citizenship have enriched Canada with their broadened experience on the international stage, and have come to appreciate what a blessing it is to be Canadian.
I find it ironic, therefore, that somebody like myself, who was born in Canada, have always lived in Canada, and never been anything else but Canadian, such be accused of being one who belongs south of the border and should go there.
We do not even say that to those who have dual citizenship. Why would we say it to one who has always been proudly Canadian with no connections or citizenship in any other country?
I have been told by brain, “If this nation isn’t good enough for you, move to the U.S. where its so ‘free’. Don’t let the border slam you on your way out.” –By brain on 06.25.08 11:59 pm
With Canadian tolerance and genereosity, it would not be proper to say that to even one of dual citizenship.
To say that to one who has been born, raised, educated and employed in Canada all of their life is reprehensible, intolerant, disgusting and bigotted.
What is even more disconcerting, however, is to see the number of people on this blog who applaud brain’s intolerance as if Canada belonged only to people who share his or her perspective on things.
My Canada is big enough to include brain. Why is his Canada not big enough to include me?
brain has even gone so far as to suggest that I work for some kind of a paid political operative in Chicago which is utter nonsense.
The stereotyping is that people who think like me do not belong in Canada, and that people who think like me must be American. This is intolerance, and does not allow for the diversity that is in our multi-cultural Canada where people are allowed to be themselves, and to think and to dream freely.
I find this reprehensible that just because one has a different point of view that they should be told to move away.
Again, we would not say that to those who have dual citizenship in both Canada and the United States, and a person like brain, once in power, could become dangerous because they could not tolerate opposing views.
We know the mistakes that our governments have made with their relocation policies for the Native people. What would brain do if they could not relocate somebody like me? Put them in jail? What other alternatives are there/
How would brain deal with dissent in a democratic society?
brain has every right to a particular point of view, as do I, but to suggest that one of us does not belong in Canada is just plain wrong and unacceptable.
What I am proposing is that we need to reach out together, dialogue together, really hear one another. We might find some things we agree on, and I am sure that we would still find some things that we disagree on, but that’s ok.
It is still ok to disagree in Canada. We are each entitled to an opinion, and we are each entitled to the freedom of speech.
The answer is not to move away from each other, but to accept one another as people with dignity, and with human rights, even if we do not agree in some areas.
try ‘MacDonald’ Wayne ;o)
Garth, thanks for making the post. Whether an MP has dual citizenship or not is a moot point. What is important is that the individual have ethics, compassion, tolerance, intelligence, and possesses reason and logic. Recent history has proven that many sitting MPs do not possess these fundamental qualities.
Here is a list of countries that allow dual citizenship (data from the Australian government web site)
Countries that allow dual citizenship
Bangladesh
Ireland
South Africa
Brazil
Israel
Spain
Canada
Italy
Switzerland
Colombia
Jordan
Syria
Egypt
Lebanon
Tonga
Fed. Rep. Yugoslavia
Malta
Turkey
France
Netherlands
United Kingdom
Hungary
New Zealand
United States
Macedonia
Portugal
Western Samoa
I will do a bit more research on this issue… a further post may be forthcoming.
This as simply shows desperation on the conservative times, like a cornered wild animal. It’s almost the Dion equivalent of John Daily’s “The audacity of fear ‘Baraknophobia’”
I was also happy with Susan Delacourt’s response to the NeoCons writer her trying to get them to smear Dion(Susan Delacourt – Long Memories)
This NeoCon team more and more sounds like they are in a Fox Studio with O’Reilly. This Americanization of political smearing is really disturbing. Dion presents policy,and what to we get in return. We get “screwed” and character assassination attempts through dual citizenship.
The Dion thing. Non-issue.
In other news, Tom Likewski, where are you? Is your organization not an “employer of choice for all people”? Military, police, firefighters, even the family dog, … but no Conservatives:
background article….
Dion among a dozen MPs with dual citizenships
Last Updated: Friday, December 8, 2006 | 5:21 PM ET
CBC News
At least 11 members of Parliament, other than Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, hold dual citizenships, CBC.ca research has confirmed.
Dion was criticized this week because of his reluctance to give up his French citizenship. He was born in Canada but holds dual citizenship because his mother was born in France.
The Parliament of Canada website shows that 41 of the 308 MPs sitting in the House of Commons were born in 28 countries other than Canada, ranging from Uganda and Malta to China and the United Kingdom.
Many of these MPs qualify for dual citizenship. That puts them in the ranks of the 691,300 people living in Canada who hold dual citizenships, according to the 2001 census.
CBC.ca called their offices to check on their current status and found that the following MPs hold dual citizenships:
Omar Alghabra (Ontario Liberal), with Syria.
Raymond Chan (British Columbia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
Libby Davies (British Columbia NDP), with the United Kingdom.
Jim Karygiannis (Ontario Liberal), with Greece.
Wajid Khan (Ontario Liberal), with Pakistan.
Maka Kotto (Quebec Bloc Québécois), with France.
Pablo Rodriguez (Quebec Liberal), with Argentina.
Michael Savage (Nova Scotia Liberal), with the United Kingdom.
Mario Silva (Ontario Liberal), with Portugal.
Lui Temelkovski (Ontario Liberal), with Macedonia.
Myron Thompson (Alberta Conservative), with the United States.
Three of the foreign-born MPs’ citizenship status remains unknown.
Health Minister Tony Clement’s office had not returned repeated calls by Friday afternoon.
Keith Martin’s spokeperson said the Liberal MP doesn’t like to divulge personal information, and Conservative John Williams’s spokesperson couldn’t comment on his citizenship.
The remaining 27 MPs don’t hold dual citizenships.
Other MPs may be eligible for dual citizenship through their parents or spouses, as is the case with Dion.
Many not interested in dual citizenship
Recent changes in laws allowing dual citizenship in other countries mean that some MPs born abroad are now eligible to renew the citizenship they had to relinquish when they moved to Canada.
However, many aren’t interested in doing so, according to the CBC.ca survey.
Those include MPs born in Italy — such as Liberals Maurizio Bevilacqua, Albina Guarnieri, Maria Minna and Joe Volpe — and MPs born in India like Liberals Sukh Dhaliwal and Ujjal Dosanjh.
‘At this point in time, I am a Canadian citizen.’
-Liberal MP Sukh Dhaliwal When Dhaliwal arrived in Canada, dual citizenship with India wasn’t allowed. Now, though he could renew his Indian citizenship, he told CBC.ca, “At this point in time, I am a Canadian citizen.”
Maria Mourani of the Bloc Québécois could be eligible for three citizenships. She is a Canadian citizen, but was born in Ivory Coast and held a passport from there. She also held a Lebanese passport, for which she was eligible through her parents.
Both passports have expired, but she is still eligible to claim citizenship with both countries.
Dual citizenship important to some
For some MPs, their second citizenship is important. Liberal Lui Temelkovski, a Macedonian-Canadian citizen, says he encourages his children to study abroad and learn other languages.
NDP Tony Martin was born in Ireland but does not hold dual citizenship. However, he understands why someone would want to hold two citizenships.
“There are a myriad of reasons for it … to participate as a citizen of the world,” he said.
Many of the MPs told CBC.ca that the world is becoming smaller, and that their birth in another country reflects the many nations that make up Canada.
For others, like Libby Davies, the question came as a surprise.
“I don’t know if I have dual citizenship,” she said. “I guess I do. I’ve never renounced it, but I don’t have a British passport. I consider myself truly Canadian.”
That was very “sly” Garth – and very political. Being born outside Canada is not the same as applying for, and retaining the citizenship of another country; Apples and Oranges.
Nice Try!
For those of you interested in the topic of dual citizenship… material from Canada Immigration web site…
Dual Citizenship
What is meant by dual citizenship?
Every independent nation makes its own decision as to who its citizens will be. You possess dual or multiple citizenship when more than one country recognizes you as its citizen.
Unlike the law in effect in Canada up to 1977, the current Citizenship Act allows Canadian citizens to acquire a foreign nationality without automatically losing their Canadian citizenship. Since February 15, 1977, a Canadian citizen who acquires another nationality may retain Canadian citizenship, unless he or she voluntarily applies to renounce it and the application is approved by a citizenship judge. The current act thus makes it possible to have two or more citizenships and allegiances at the same time for an indefinite period.
Consequently, you may have the rights and obligations conferred by each of these countries on its citizens. Whenever you are in a country that recognizes you as a citizen, its laws take priority over the laws of any other country of which you may be a citizen. International treaties may, however, allow exceptions to this rule.
A person may have several citizenships at the same time. For example, a person who was born in a country other than Canada, who applies for citizenship and is naturalized in Canada, and then naturalized in a third country may be a citizen of all three countries. However, cases of dual citizenship are more common. Although this pamphlet deals primarily with dual citizenship, the information contained in it applies equally to people who are citizens of more than two countries. The terms “dual citizenship” and “dual nationality” are now used interchangeably.
How does dual citizenship occur?
If you, your parents, your grandparents and your spouse, if you are married, were all born in Canada, and you have not become the citizen of any other country, then you most likely possess only one citizenship: Canadian.
However, if one or more of these people were born outside Canada or acquired another citizenship, this might result in your having dual citizenship, depending on the laws of the countries concerned. For example, if you were born in Canada and one of your parents or your spouse was born outside Canada, you might be considered a citizen of your parents’ or your spouse’s former homeland, even if you never asked to be one. Dual citizenship occurs because citizenship can be obtained in more than one way: through country of birth, naturalization, parents, grandparents or, in rare cases, marriage.
Citizenship is a complex matter because of the great variety of citizenship laws throughout the world. Some countries allow dual citizenship while others take away the citizenship of a person who acquires another citizenship. Some do not recognize a person’s new citizenship. The laws that apply to your case are generally the ones in force at the time of the event that affects your citizenship (your birth or marriage, or your parents’ birth or marriage, for instance). This is why determining your present citizenship status can be a difficult and lengthy process.
Before the Citizenship Act of February 15, 1977, Canadian law limited dual citizenship. It also provided more ways to gain or lose citizenship than does our current law. Canadians who became citizens of another country before that date should check to see if they are still Canadians. Since that date, Canadian law, like the laws of several other countries, has allowed dual citizenship.
Are you a citizen of more than one country?
To find out whether you are or might become a dual citizen, you must contact the officials of each country in question. You will have to provide some information about yourself, such as the place and date of birth, the citizenship of your parents, and certain immigration details. You may also have to provide similar information about your parents, and possibly your spouse and grandparents.
If you are in Canada and you want to find out if you are a citizen of another country, you should contact that foreign country’s embassy or consulate. To obtain the correct names, addresses and telephone numbers, you can consult the Consular Affairs website at http://www.voyage.gc.ca/consular_home-en.asp, or call the Enquiries Service of the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade at 1 800 267-8376 (toll-free, from anywhere in Canada) or (613) 944-4000 (in Ottawa).
If you have questions about Canadian citizenship, you should contact the Call Centre at 1 888 242-2100 from anywhere in Canada, or any Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate outside Canada. You may also write to the Registrar of Canadian Citizenship, Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Ottawa K1A 1L1.
Dual citizenship: An important issue
Dual citizenship may carry with it certain benefits, but it may also bring unexpected difficulties: legal proceedings, taxation and financial responsibilities, military service, denial of emigration, even imprisonment for failure to comply with obligations in one of your countries of citizenship. Accordingly, you should ask yourself the following questions:
Am I now a dual citizen?
Can I acquire dual citizenship, either by marriage or by naturalization in Canada or in another country?
Is dual citizenship an advantage or a disadvantage for me?
If dual citizenship is a disadvantage, what can I do about it?
Dual citizenship: Advantage or disadvantage?
Suppose you learn that you have, or a member of your family has, dual citizenship or that you might acquire it. Would dual citizenship be good for you? Would it have more advantages than disadvantages?
For some people, dual citizenship offers practical advantages (for example, social security or employment). It may also enhance the feeling of belonging because they have strong personal ties to more than one country.
However, it is important to realize that there can be difficulties and disadvantages as well. The following paragraphs suggest some of the consequences of having dual citizenship. In general, the laws that apply to you at any time are the laws of the country in which you are physically present at that time. The laws of a country may provide, for example, that people residing in the country of their second citizenship may travel only on the passport of their country of residence. Possession of a second passport could result in its being confiscated, or even in a fine.
If a Canadian has legal or other difficulties outside the country, Canadian diplomatic and consular representatives in that country can try to help. However, if the Canadian in difficulty in another country is also a citizen of that country, Canadian officials may be entirely unable to help. That country will be dealing with one of its own citizens and probably will not welcome “outside interference.” Indeed, foreign authorities will definitely consider you as one of their citizens, especially if you choose to travel under their passport.
Travelling with a Canadian passport and another country’s passport simultaneously might also lead to certain difficulties in a third country. Where permitted by the laws of the country in question, the Government of Canada encourages Canadians to use their Canadian passport when travelling abroad and to present themselves as Canadians to foreign authorities.
There may be laws in a country to which a foreign traveller is not subject, but which apply to you as a citizen of that country. For example, there may be restrictions on exit, compulsory military service, and special taxes or financial compensation for services received in the past, including educational costs. There might even be special circumstances that apply to you in particular. For example, friends or relatives may be affected by your visiting that country, or there may be legal proceedings pending against you that could begin again if you return.
You might be affected if the countries of which you are a citizen are involved in political upheavals or military conflicts.
Even while in Canada, you might be approached with demands that you fulfil certain obligations to another country of which you are legally a citizen.
These are some of the possible drawbacks to dual or multiple citizenship. They might not apply in your case, but it is important for you to be aware of them.
Avoid the hazards of dual citizenship
Suppose you are or might become a dual citizen, and you feel that this could present problems for you, your spouse or your children, or others. You can do a number of things about it.
Before applying for Canadian citizenship, you are advised to find out if you can retain your present citizenship, and if this might cause problems for you or others.
Next, find out if you can renounce the citizenship that you do not wish to retain, and whether renouncing that citizenship will remove the possible hazards. Citizenship cannot be renounced merely by making a personal declaration to this effect. You need to apply to the appropriate authorities of the country concerned and obtain formal approval.
If you are or will become a citizen of another country and you are living outside Canada, you may apply to renounce Canadian citizenship through any Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate outside Canada. Once you are no longer a Canadian citizen, however, you cannot travel on a Canadian passport or benefit from Canadian assistance outside Canada. Moreover, you cannot return to Canada as a permanent resident without going through immigration procedures.
Above all, avoid travelling to a country of which you are a citizen if it is likely to cause you difficulty.
Confirm your citizenship status
Citizenship laws are complicated. Do not assume that what applies to your friends and relatives will apply to you as well, even though your circumstances may be similar. Be certain about your own citizenship status. Seek information from the officials of every country of which you may be a citizen. Start with the Call Centre in Canada or a Canadian embassy or consulate outside Canada. Advice and guidance are free, and Canadian officials will be glad to give you information or tell you where it may be available.
If you wish to obtain a citizenship certificate to confirm your Canadian citizenship, you must make an application and pay the appropriate fees. For more information, see the Citizenship and Immigration Canada Call Centre number below. The automated voice response system will give you answers to general citizenship questions 24 hours a day. If you wish to speak to an agent, contact the Call Centre during the normal business hours of 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. across Canada and press “0.”
Call Centre
Call 1 888 242-2100 (toll-free) from anywhere in Canada.
If you are hearing impaired and you use a text telephone, you can access the TTY service at 1 888 576-8502 from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. your local time.
Other source of information
Consular Affairs Bureau
website: http://www.voyage.gc.ca
Garth,
Thanks for this topic. It shows how seriously unique Canada truly is. We are the living United Nations working together.
As to the xenophobes muttering about dual citizenship, I have to wonder if they ever stopped to think how the First Nations feel about all ‘these damn foregners’ who have taken over ‘OUR’ land?
What ignorant hypocrites.
Who cares if Dion is a citizen of another country? It may come in handy as another location for his job search. He is at best the interim leader for the Lib’s while they reorganize after the scandel ridden party of the last few decades.
As opposed to the scandal-ridden party in power now? — Garth
Is this the same Garth that raged about the Lebanese with convenient dual Citizenships. He wanted this citizenship of convenience debated and he wasn’t for it. That was the summer of 2006 and now he is SO LIBERAL!
KATHI
The issue then was residency, not citizenship. We went and picked up people from their homeland because they had once lived in Canada, then watched them go back again when the shooting stopped. — Garth
DION HAS ALREADY ANSWERED THIS DUAL CITIZENSHIP ISSUE PUBLICALLY in December 2006!!! This issue was put to rest 18 months ago. Leave it to neoCon bobbleheads to try and make an issue from something that was already answered.
He has publically stated that he will renounce his French citizenship if Canadians feel that is a problem. Let’s move on folks. This is a non-issue!
Dion would sacrifice French citizenship to become PM
Last Updated: Friday, December 8, 2006 | 5:22 PM ET
CBC News
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said he would renounce his French citizenship, albeit reluctantly, if it impedes his quest to become prime minister.
“If it’s a problem for a significant number of Canadians, and if it’s a liability that may keep Mr. Harper in power and prevent us … [from bringing] together, more than any other country in the world, economic prosperity, social justice, environmental sustainability, then I will do this sad thing then, to renounce my French citizenship that I received from my mother,” Dion told CBC’s Peter Mansbridge on Thursday.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion says he would do ‘the sad thing’ and renounce his French citizenship if it hurts his bid to become PM.
(CBC) “As everyone, I love my mother, I love everything she gave to me, including that. It’s part of me. I don’t see why it’s a problem.”
Until now, Dion had dismissed calls to give up his French citizenship, saying he is “100 per cent loyal to Canada.”
The newly crowned Liberal leader was born in Quebec City, but holds French citizenship because his mother was born in France.
Dion questioned why it’s become an issue, noting “nobody has doubt about my loyalty for Canada.”
‘Not an issue for Turner’
He also pointed to former prime minister John Turner, who was born in England.
“It was not an issue for Mr. Turner. John Turner was prime minister of Canada with dual citizenship. At that time, nobody had problems with it.”
When asked whether he thought Dion should give up his French citizenship, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said on Friday it was up to each politician to “use their own political judgement.”
Harper was quick point out, however, that he supported the decision of Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean to renounce her French citizenship in 2005.
Jean was born in Haiti and grew up in Montreal. She acquired French citizenship when she married filmmaker Jean-Daniel Lafond, who was born in France.
I would never ever use Canada as a convenience – or for that matter the other country for convenience. My loyalties, love, and concern is for Canada.
By Catherine on 06.29.08 8:36 am
…Catherine – what do you understand about loyalty? Dion has kept the dual citizenship “for his mother”. He loves and respects his mother and doesn’t want to hurt her – now LISTEN CAREFULLY girl – Dion has said he would give up the dual citizenship if required – got it – should we repeat it again – you have memory problems?
I have an idea – Harper needs Quebec -if we were to email the CPC supporters comments to some Quebecers – Duceppe, to the papers whatever – do you think they’d vote Conservative with all this bigotry – not on your life.
So keep it up bigots – it’s tempting to save them and forward them on.
After all, the French were here first and the British won a battle that could have easily gone either way. You people make me sick.
Van : You are missing the point. Renouncing a “piece of paper” is meaningless. Anyone can pledge allegiance to a single country–it is the future actions of the individual that have meaning.
Not sure why you are holding an elected M.P. who happens to become the Prime Minister up to a higher standard than a sitting M.P. with dual citizenship. M.P.’s wield a lot of power–and influence the P.M. on international policy.
Seems inconsistent that you would allow a long-serving M.P. with dual citizenship (who might later become the Prime Minister) to enact laws and agreements that affect foreign policy.
Sheila: Your commentary on communities helping others is not a new or innovative idea. It has been happening for decades.
Most communities support those in need.
Most communities have after school programmes, mentors, drop-in centres, etc.
Your sons’ city is typical of today’s cities. Outreach to youth and others at risk is the norm not the exception.
I live in a small town where neighbour helping neighbour is part of living not an afterthought.
Just a quick recap:
Sir John A MacDonald (Conservative) – Scotland By Theo on 06.28.08 11:41 pm
________________________________________
Theo,
Sir John A. was a Liberal-Conservative. Creating the new party was the only way Confederation could have been.
Bowell was a veteran of Liberal-Conservative governments and around 1892 he became Prime Minister.
Bowell replaced Prime Minister Thompson who was also a Liberal-Conservative.
The Liberal-Conservatives ran against both Liberals and Conservatives from 1867 to the early 1890’s.
Jean Guyon arrived in Canada in 1634 with his wife and eight children. By 1730, the Guyon lineage included 2,150 persons, making it the largest family of French origin in America. Over time, the family name changed from Guyon to Dion. Among Jean Guyon’s descendants are Stephane Dion, Celine Dion, Madonna and Camilla Parker Bowles.
http://www.perche-quebec.com/files/perche/individus/jean_guyon.htm#parente_camilla
The Dion family is one of the oldest Canadian families. In the face of this history, the fact that he has the privilege of French citizenship through his French mother is insignificant to Dion’s relationship and outlook on Canada.
Specifically, in response to Ezra Levant’s question, “When it comes to making decisions about the war on terror, and Canada’s role in Afghanistan, will Dion be unduly influenced by France, a country that has taken up the role of lawyer and arms dealer for every terrorist state in the world, even defending Saddam Hussein until the eve of his overthrow?”, we should ask him in return, would a person of the Jewish faith, who, like all Jews around the world, has the privilege to Israeli citizenship, be asked to renounce Judaism in order to become prime minister of Canada so that they are not unduly influenced by Israel in defining Canadian foreign policy?
By TS on 06.29.08 8:54 am
Yes, TS they ‘allow’ dual citizenship. Most countries do. However, how many of those countries would let you become their leader and still hold those second citizenships? I think your list would grow quite small. And, that is for good reason.
If you all think that Dion’s dual citizenship and the fact he started his political career as a separatist will have no play in the next election campaign, you are dreaming. Ask GG Jean I’m sure she remembers the harsh ground-swell of anger that eventually forced her to give up the second citizenship and denounce her assumed separatist ties of the past.
And, as for Keith Martin, Garth…you’ve made it very, very clear on this blog on how much you absolutely hate any and all former reform members. I am sure Keith is very aware of that fact.
Going back…when Dion was an active campaigning separatist…the separatists in Quebec were actively trying to form allegiance for their cause with France.
WHY did France allow Dion to keep the citizenship?? We knew their ruling on GG Jean…what was Dion’s?
Garth…if I am an idiot for asking this question, I think you will find 80% of this country are idiots, because when it explodes during the campaign inquiring minds will want to know. Fine, you and Dion can stand on the soapbox and simply call them all idiots.
Leasa
Leasa,
in the spirit of fairness, your non-partisan conscience congratulates you on the fine manner in which your shiny object over there, Dion’s dual citizenship, hijacked one thread and led to a new one devoted to that issue.
Like the man said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Especially one out of ideas and issues.
By Herb on 06.29.08 7:12 am
You hit the nail on the head, Herb. And surely there are more important issues to discuss and to try and find solutions to. This topic has been brought forward by Leasa many times–it almost seems like her “assignment”. Perhaps it is because she is out of her depth on issues of import.
By Leasa on 06.29.08 10:10 a.m. “If you all think that Dion’s dual citizenship and the fact he started his political career as a separatist will have no play in the next election campaign, you are dreaming.”
Oh, it will have play for sure–thanks to people like you making a big deal out of nothing–as usual. However, most critical thinkers will see your efforts as what they are–attempts at obfuscation.
“Fine, you and Dion can stand on the soapbox and simply call them all idiots.”
Can I stand on that soapbox too?
What about Republican Presidential Candidate John McCain?
He was born in 1936 at a US military installation in the Panama Canal Zone.
McCain has no problem running in his country as the president of the United States. No big deal in the US. Good for them!
Why should Canadian born Dion have such odd questions asked of him?
Only the straw graspers would act this way.
My late poor old 130+ year old Irish grandmother would be pretty upset with people who question citizenship. She probably died with in Canada, with her Irish Citizenship
“Sheila: Your commentary on communities helping others is not a new or innovative idea.” –By Judy on 06.29.08 9:41 am
I realize and fully appreciate that, Judy. What I am saying is simply that we need to be encouraging MORE of this type of approach to issues rather than looking to centralized governmental bureaucracies to solve our social problems when government programs are essentially impersonal, and fail to address people’s need for RELATIONSHIP, and PERSONAL FRIENDSHP, not money alone.
I also realize that where people have no relationships, that government programs are necessary, but they are not the final answer, and cannot restore relationships in families where they are broken or dysfunctional.
We need to be encouraging a more and greater involvement at the personal and community, neighbourhood level such as you describe so beautifully.
The more charitable work is done at the grassroots level, the less do we look for “top-down” solutions which are not solutions at all.
The type of work you describe is carried out by people motivated by charity who volunteer their services freely without costing the tax-payers a sense, and who do not gripe or complain, but get their own reward in simply helping others.
We need more of this, and less “top-down” solutions which simply cut a cheque and give a “handout” instead of a “hand-up.”
Is this the same Garth that raged about the Lebanese with convenient dual Citizenships. He wanted this citizenship of convenience debated and he wasn’t for it. That was the summer of 2006 and now he is SO LIBERAL!
KATHI
The issue then was residency, not citizenship. We went and picked up people from their homeland because they had once lived in Canada, then watched them go back again when the shooting stopped. — Garth
By Kathi Herman on 06.29.08 9:17 am
Were they Canadian citizens, Garth? Thats the point here.
So as long as a Canadian has residency in Canada then the state should provide protection and resources for them. If they reside outside Canada then they are on their own.
Tell that to Brenda Martin and Maher Arar.
Comment by Loraine Lamontagne on 06.29.08 10:09 am
Loraine, you might want to reconsider what you are saying here. You are confusing ethnicity/religion with citizenship. All Jews have the right to become citizens of Israel, they are not Israeli just by virtue of being Jewish.
On Dion’s citizenship, I am of two minds. It doesn’t bother me in particular primarily because I don’t think he’ll ever be PM so the point is moot. In the general case, I would prefer that the Prime Minister of Canada (or any country) not take up the citizenship of another country. Contrary to what’s often presented, Dion did not acquire his citizenship as an accident of birth (or in homage to his Mother, how silly). He applied for, and was granted, French Citizenship as a student. Given Dion’s own separatist history, and given France’s meddlesome encouragement of the Nationalist movement in Quebec, it’s perfectly legitimate to question his dual citizenship. Calling people names for expressing honest concerns is a poor substitute for addressing those concerns.
No-one in this country hesitates for a moment to cast Harper as being disloyal to Canada and beholden to American intersts (certainly I don’t need to cite examples). Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances. The assumptions underlying these attitudes should be examined more closely, IMO.
“And you have many single mothers in your community who are ever so helpfully not requiring anything from you.” By Liz on 06.29.08 5:18 am
Of course there are more needs than any one individual or group can meet. Not one of us can do everything, but we can all do something, beginning in our own neighbourhood.
“Why would they when the town’s men who fathered the children have blasted off to relieve themselves from any government interference?” By Liz on 06.29.08 5:18 am
These Dads should be made responsible. The government should not have to raise their children. Maturity comes with the acceptance of responsibility.
“And here just last week you were mis-spelling your own name one out of three posts! Glory Be!” By Liz on 06.29.08 5:18 am
Liz, if you will look more carefully, those times when my name was misspelled were taken from quotations that were copied and pasted from others who were talking about me, and who wrote Shiela instead of Sheila.
What is your point?
The more charitable work is done at the grassroots level, the less do we look for “top-down” solutions which are not solutions at all.
The type of work you describe is carried out by people motivated by charity who volunteer their services freely without costing the tax-payers a sense, and who do not gripe or complain, but get their own reward in simply helping others.
We need more of this, and less “top-down” solutions which simply cut a cheque and give a “handout” instead of a “hand-up.”
By Sheila on 06.29.08 10:52 am
As someone who works for a charitable organization which counts on volunteers, I agree with you to a point. However, recruiting, screening, training, coordinating and retaining good volunteers takes money. From where, if not from government grants?
“Garth…if I am an idiot for asking this question, I think you will find 80% of this country are idiots, because when it explodes during the campaign inquiring minds will want to know.”
By Leasa on 06.29.08 10:10 am
Leasa I wouldn’t categorize you as an “idiot” or those who think like you on this issue as “idiots”.
“Inappropriately Nosy” may be more applicable on the questions of what France did/did not do.
Neither you or those who think like you are institutions of government that require this information to enforce/enact legislative programs/services. Since the information you are not seeking is not “criminal” in any way, and your security of person really doesn’t hinge on it, you don’t have a “right” to it.
Any individual has the right to say no with respect to sharing their personal information that is not deemed to be a crime by the criminal code. They do so with the understanding that the government may deny them benefits/services or the private sector will deny them service. I am certain you, me and others, believe in everyone’s right to say “no” about sharing details of one’s life that one does not wish to.
Otherwise, and logically, you would be in favour of for example, something that has been debated on this blog in the past – Garth instituting a blog policy that requires full disclosure of real names before posting, or perhaps expanding that to include home address and telephone number…….
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. If we all were to light just one little candle, what a bright world this would be!
A dream world you ask? No, I am seeing it in operation all around me. I invite you to join me in the party!
Life is a blast!
By Sheila on 06.28.08 11:19 pm
Sheila,
Many love the Darkness of ignorance, bias, bigotry, sexism, xenphobia, undeserved and unearned respect and power, and religion instead of spirituality. They are basically Mushrooms and grow only amongst their own kind. Basic social psychologyresulting in Group Think. One of the worst forms of self-denial and slavery ever devised by mankind.
Government’s primary function is to do for the people what the people are incapable of doing for themselves. That does include a helping hand in times of need, and sometimes for the rest of their life. That is what a Village does…it cares for the people collectively. It does NOT, however build walls and barriers to prevent people from achieving their God given talents and abilities to make a better world.
Where governments fail is when they stop being a servant to their own people and want to become the people’s Master. It is the difference between being King of the Scots and King of Scotland. The former is the real leader who acts on behalf of the people and in their interest. The later is one who views themself in a position of ownership and control…Not a real leader. An old Duid teaching.
This stems from innate impatience, a rush to solve problems that rquire long term solutions. Then there are those who carry too many burdens and become cynical and bureaucratic, functioning by a book of rules rather than a functional human mind. They produce the failures by failing themselves.
Light a candle indeed is the the answer. That candle shows the reality others live in, and I think for most people, it brings a new dawn of compassionate understanding.
For all our technology we still are walking around dragging our collective knuckles socially. I do hope enough will see the Light and come into it. Will it ever achieve 100%? Never. Freedom of will is a responsibility and cannot be forced. Like a POW who is tortured may conform to ease their angst, once the threat is removed they will seek out their own chosen path.
This is something religion simply cannot accomodate because religion does not teach true faith. Only spirituality, a conscience connectiveness with others can achive such faith. It is knowing one is truly never really alone.
As one of my favourtite sayings states ‘Religion will tell you what to think. Philosophy will teach you how to think.
and the other is Work the SOLUTION!
Happy Dominion Day
Pardy on Garth
Gord.
By Gord G. on 06.28.08 10:59 am
Tell me Gord, why do you find it necessary to sign Gord. when your name immediately follows with On, date & time?
By jwp on 06.28.08 11:28 am
jwp,
Are you accusing Gord G. of being devious? Does his style suggest that he may be a male version of Leasa? It appears to me that there is a connection somewhere with Leasa and Lawrence Garvin.
Leasa accuses me of beating my wife, Garvin accuses me of molesting children and Gord G. accuses me of stalking women. Not a very nice crowd, are they?
As opposed to the scandal-ridden party in power now? — Garth
Ummmm, Garth … It appears Canadians don’t consider the government “scandal-ridden” based on polling. The Conservatives are consistently above the Liberals both on leadership and government.
I think Liberal strategy to attempt smearing the government in ’scandal’ is a failure, and Dion’s credibility as a political leader has sunk to unimaginable lows according to poll after poll.
The ’scandal-ridden’ political party is the Liberals, and the people of Quebec know this only too well. The reject Liberals and despise Dion .. and that’s an undisputable fact. ADSCAM will influence Quebec politics for the next 10 year according to Quebec political analysts.
No, Garth … you and your Liberal party colleagues attempt to smear the Conservative government with ’scandals’ are disingenuous, and your calumny is exposed.
Since the neoCon bobbleheads have trouble reading… here is a partial repost….
DION HAS ALREADY ANSWERED THIS DUAL CITIZENSHIP ISSUE PUBLICALLY in December 2006!!!
This issue was put to rest 18 months ago. Leave it to neoCon bobbleheads to try and make an issue from something that was already answered.
He has publically stated that he will renounce his French citizenship if Canadians feel that is a problem. Let’s move on folks. This is a non-issue!
Dion would sacrifice French citizenship to become PM
Last Updated: Friday, December 8, 2006 | 5:22 PM ET
CBC News
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion said he would renounce his French citizenship, albeit reluctantly, if it impedes his quest to become prime minister.
“If it’s a problem for a significant number of Canadians, and if it’s a liability that may keep Mr. Harper in power and prevent us … [from bringing] together, more than any other country in the world, economic prosperity, social justice, environmental sustainability, then I will do this sad thing then, to renounce my French citizenship that I received from my mother,” Dion told CBC’s Peter Mansbridge on Thursday.
And, let’s not slam Dion for his comment about giving up his dual citizenship as a “sad thing”. What he will give up is a part of his heritage and something that is a fond memory of his mother. Few other Canadians would do this if it was asked of them.
Was it not you that was ralying against dual citizenship when we had to rescue a bunch of Lebanese people a couple of years ago?
As I remember you were for changing the law and not allowing it.
Read the previous comments before adding yours. The issue then was more residency than citizenship. And, yeah, the law does need reviewing when a person can stay here for three summers then expect the Government of Canada to rescue them from a foreign war, forever. — Garth
What is your point?
By Sheila on 06.29.08 11:07 am
Nice try Sheila, no cigar. You mis-spelled your own name many times. I think you are a paid Death Star poster, not a bona fide Canadian participating on a discussion blog to further understanding and consensus. A shill. A hack. A wrench tossed in to gum up the works. Likely a man as well. Most women don’t make stupid spelling mistakes with names, particularly their own.
This is my opinion and as a Canadian I am taking great pleasure and have much thankfulness that I can freely express it.
Happy Canada Day, everyone!
(Even dual-nationals, Canadians of convenience and the traitors like Harper who just haven’t got the job of NAU done! Yet. How does tri-national work for you?)
Interesting that the two who share both US and Canadian citizenship just happen to be Reformers. The silent takeover is real.
I’d like to add that the comment section of this blog shows signs of too many partisan hacks working to discredit this author. The media is their enemy alright, and they do a damn good job at hiding their true Conservative agenda. Even though Harper himself wishes to conceal his radical Reform policies, one only has to read into the stated policies of the National Citizens Coalition to understand the PM’s motives. Considering Harper stood as President of this right-wing lobbying group right up until he took office as Prime Minister, it would be hard to argue that the man doesn’t actually share in its vision for the country. Anyone who enjoys the idea of foreign corporations owning even our highways should elect a Mike Harris, er excuse me, a Stephen Harper government.
Mr. Turner — Enjoy Canada Day, and thanks for another year of good work.
I was reminded of a small poem my Irish uncle wrote me in a birthday card years ago:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
But it takes the Dominion of Canada
To make a peach like you!
Have a great day! And happy Pride, Ontario!
No-one in this country hesitates for a moment to cast Harper as being disloyal to Canada and beholden to American intersts (certainly I don’t need to cite examples). Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances. The assumptions underlying these attitudes should be examined more closely, IMO.
By Lawrence on 06.29.08 11:00 am
Thank you Lawrence! But, I doubt that the wild eyed partisan attack dogs will even read or consider what you’ve said. But, you are bang-on. Leasa
My hubby holds dual British and Canadian citizenship. My grandmother, a Brit, lost her citizenship when she married a Russian and had to become a naturalized Canadian. What was fair about that? Women were chattels of their husbands–they were forced to take on the nationality of their husbands.
Article about people who have difficulty establishing their Canadian citizenship
There are fine lines about citizenship. I’m satisfied that Dion and many others like him are able to represent Canada in ways that further freedom and democracy. Much remains to be done about others who still meet opposition in establishing theirs.
Canada is a land of immigrants and ‘all’ need welcoming with open arms. Canada’s birth rate is not high enough to do the work that needs done. An open door immigration policy is the way forward for Canada for it to remain a prosperous country both economically and socially.
Canada never was a melting pot society–it remains a country where it is possible and desirable for immigrants to retain one culture–mixing it with aspects of their new Canadian citizenship. The end result is a Canadian regardless of where they were born and what their previous nationality was. Canada’s immigrant population represent the best of both worlds.
For those who may think that there are more important issues than dual citizenship, here is a link to Randall Denley’s column “Politicians fiddle while economy burns” in to-days Ottawa Citizen at http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/columnists/story.html?id=3df7c7d4-bf63-4ced-97a3-390bb3cba547
Denley’s conclusion: “Industrialized countries have foolishly opened their markers to low-cost countries in exchange for nothing but short term corporate advantage. It must stop, before we all have to move to Mexico to look for work.”
Mark his reason for our economic misery: “short term corporate advantage.” And Denley hardly is a socialist.
The Conservatives have done it. They have exposed the real goal of the Green Shift Plan.
It is to facilitate the take over of Canada by France.
How diabolical. How nefarious. I am certain Mike Myers will make another Austin Powers movie out of it.
That Mr. Dion is very clever but not too clever for those crafty Conservatives.
Back to the future for a moment.
Northern premiers give thumbs down to carbon tax
Northwest Territories Premier Floyd Roland, Yukon Premier Dennis Fentie and Nunavut Premier Paul Okalik said the plan would not be fair to their residents.
“We’d rather focus on alternatives to get away from fossil fuels. But to add on a cost to very high fuel costs already is just not an option for homeowners in our territory,” Okalik said.
“(In the North), there really are no alternatives for us in Nunavut to turn to, to get away from diesel generation for power and for heat,” he said.
Glad to see they are thinking with their brains instead of politics.
Ah, I like the bumper sticker, but NOT on a government employee’s vehicle who is responsible for such dire human need.
Housing Official’s Bumper Sticker Draws Ire
“Can’t Feed ‘Em? Don’t Breed ‘Em.”
That goes well said for people, puppies, kittens, and livestock, not to mention Black Flies and mosquitoes(Yes they are out heavy today here in the rain soaked Muskoka).
Leasa accuses me of beating my wife, Garvin accuses me of molesting children and Gord G. accuses me of stalking women. Not a very nice crowd, are they?
By Gord on 06.29.08 11:57 am
Hey Gord, I’ve been reading Garth’s blog for a while now and the reason I made the stalking comment was because I can’t recall you ever making a post without Leasa’s name in it.
Gord.
“he doesn’t understand the western Canadian people”
BY CATHERINE ON 06.28.08 9:20 PM
Catherine, YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR WESTERN CANADIANS.
However, I am a westerner. Dion does speak for us. That’s the kind of good man he is.
On the other hand, Harper sneakily speaks for western politicians and oil companies, and his words are always lies.
The choice is clear, since the corporate manipulators have clearly shown us they are untrustworthy and dangerous to us, as they destroy our lives. They are Harper’s friends, not ours.
While reading National Newswatch this morning I started reflecting on Canada day and how it related to several articles. The article from an Alberta paper trashing Dions green plan concluded with a lie when he said that Canadians in eastern Canada consumed more Alberta oil than in the provence itself. While this statement may have some truth once the oil is refined and sent back up for consumption the meaning of his article was clear to whip up paranoia aganst any idea but the reform ideals in the provence and to pit the provence against the rest of the country.
Nothing I haven’t read a thousand times before. On to the article from the Saskatchewan paper that questioned how a revinue neutral plan doesn’t return exactly the same amount to the provence as is taken out. It then goes on to ridicule Dion for daring to say it is a national plan but makes no effort to explain that the poor in the provence will be better off than under the no-plan plan we have now.
By this time the pain was bad enough that I skipped through the next few articles and found an interesting one second from the bottom. This article was about how the wealth has been drained from North America by “free trade” agreements with countries with lower wages and weaker laws. I was reading what I have said privately for years. “How can you have free trade without a common minimum wage, say $5 an hour U.S. and a common set of laws covering all aspects of production?” For the first ten years everyone thought I was crazy but gradually over the last ten years or so it went from “you have a point there” to “I knew there was something wrong but you just hit the nail on the head”. Finally the MSM has discovered this oversite as well.
If dual citizenship is an election issue then this country is doomed. We are going to be trampled under the rush by the rest of the world to abandon the free trade position to a carbon tax based one where the country with the toughest measures will be able to tax everyone else and those with the weakest tax will be taxed by everyone else. Canada has only had three national issues in its history. The national railway that built the country, and the two world wars. The rest of the time we have been a collection of provences loosely working within a national government. I don’t know what happened but the provences have become so fixated on “I” that we have forgotten “we”. They expect to reap 100% of the wealth they produce without sharing but when it comes time to clean up the mess think that everyone should pay equally.
It doesn’t matter what type of government or party you support or which green plan or any other plan for that matter you believe in stop looking at the trees! Climb up a mountain this Canada day and look at the forest and rivers and lakes and whatever else there is to see and ask yourself if dual citizenship even matters? All those trees you worried about blend into a whole.
If you have ever travelled across this country think of the things you have seen and the people you have met. My kids are lucky as they have seen much of Canada and before they did couldn’t wait to leave this boring town but now talk about the advantages and opportunities that only we have. If you haven’t seen much of the country consider making trips to various regions over the coming years instead of going south and find out just how remarkable this country is if we stopped to understand each other a little bit.
The best speech ever written was by John Kennedy. “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”.
I read some articles on water in the Toronto sun this morning that pointed out a fact new to most Canadians that 2/3rds of all water in Canada flows North and will not help much in the coming drought in southern Canada. So here is my question to you. Why do you treat the water here in the north like an open sewer? When the day soon comes and you need the water that surrounds us we will gladly share it but you may not want it. We all share this country but most Canadians have never travelled more than 100 kms north of where they live and have no concern at all what damage is being done in the remote areas of the country. But the day you will care is coming soon.
Dual citizenship? Yah right.
Gord vomits out; Garvin accuses me of molesting children…
You are a liar and a coward, Gord. I’d ask you to cite my accusing you of molesting children if I thought there was one chance in a million that you had simply misunderstood. But there’s no chance at all that you are honestly mistaken. I’ve called you a creepy loser – many times – and I stand by that label. I have never accused you – or anyone else – of molesting children and I demand a retraction from you. Hidden as you are, in your coward’s hole, you will doubtless fail this simple moral test.
I have no idea why your dishonest mind veers so quickly to that particular perversion but I assure you – and any honest observer – that it went there on it’s own. While my contempt for you is genuine it is predicated on your despicable behaviour right here on this board, and not on any crimes (real or imagined) that you may have committed in real life. I claim no knowledge of you nor have I any desire to know you.
Specifically, in response to Ezra Levant’s question….
By Loraine Lamontagne on 06.29.08 10:09 am
Sorry Loraine
As soon as you start quoting the rightest winger of the Reform Party I roll my eyes. Just a little trivia, did you know that EL favoured Quebec separation in the 1995 referendum?
Ezra has always expressed views on Quebec that are borderline bigoted.
Why don’t you find out what M. Dion wrote about and did for Canada during that same period?
Happy Canada Day Loraine!
Asking someone to ‘prove’ their loyalty to a country is like asking someone to ‘prove’ their love for you.
It cannot be done, and it is demanded by those who are insecure and therefore jealous.
How does tri-national work for you?)
By Liz on 06.29.08 12:23 pm
It DOES NOT! I want Canada CANADIAN, not part of the U.S. Globalized Empire War Machine, or the completely corrupt graft form of goobernment Mexico has.
Those who want to be American or Mexican…get a compass, the direction is SOUTH! Bon voyage!
WHY did France allow Dion to keep the citizenship?? We knew their ruling on GG Jean…what was Dion’s?
Garth…if I am an idiot for asking this question, I think you will find 80% of this country are idiots, because when it explodes during the campaign inquiring minds will want to know. Fine, you and Dion can stand on the soapbox and simply call them all idiots.
Leasa
…duh – GG has a specific, unique position – representative of the Queen – too hard to understand? Dion, at this point, is “just” the leader of a political party – duh.
…explodes? You must be kidding?
…sigh
Centralized governments are ill-equipped to give people the type of support that they need.
~Sheila
Sorry, Sheila, your cuddly tactics and your long storied attempts don’t work on people who know what’s up.
The lovely barbecues and good work of people all occur BECAUSE of centralized government, but with your head in the sand you didn’t notice, or you’re denying the obvious. So don’t phony-baloney up some ridiculous argument that centralized government doesn’t work, because you are living proof that it does. It has worked around the world and here, since mankind organized society with civil and socially agreeable parameters.
The problem is greed and ignorance. That problem amplifies when the government is spread out and weakened. That is historic fact. Our job is to be vigilant, and support the best type of government, which is what we have. Harper seeks to tear us apart, not because it is a good idea, but because it serves the U.S. purposes better.
We all live in a lovely world BECAUSE of our centralized government. Our job is to keep Canada together, not stupidly sit around believing people/characters like you.
The ignorant twists you turn, are your self-serving attempts to Disinform people. You try to make good, common sense people have doubts. You should be wholly ashamed of yourself. I am ashamed to know there are people like you around. I doubt very much you are sincere. Very much, especially after recognizing that you are using the very same tactics that the ultra-right has been using for many years now. Your gig is up.
So Sheila, you are either completely unaware, or fully aware, that you are protecting corporate interests who are attempting to make this country weak, and buy us up, one company at a time.
United we are a strong community of Canada, made up of many communities who all benefit from equality and prosperity and pride, but you wish to support those who would make us open to mergers and takeovers that will see billions of dollars LEAVE Canada, due to individual and corporate greed, and we all know that means loss of jobs and widespread poverty, and loss of the middle class. We are not sheep, and we do not fall for your lies. So Baaaahhhhh it.
“find some healthy outlet for it” by L.AWRENCE the hypocrite.
L.awrence, this is a healthy outlet, and if C.harles O.xley wants to shine a light on yours, or any lying T.roll’s dumb and twisted statements, C.harles seems very welcomed here, and he is much appreciated with his wise words.
Your cuddling up and then moving in for the kill, is reminiscent and identical to years of other robo-trolls, with american ultra right tactics, so much so, that according to statistics, you are very likely to all be one person.
The same goes for any vandalism. Truth vandalism is no different.
Vandalism is used as a method by a very, very few people to torment a larger body of people. I see no difference here. You and other posters of Disinformation and word twisting, have identical tactics. Canadians are on to your type. Bite the dust.
Why do liberals call other CND citizens bigot, idiots, Nazis etc every single time they are asked a question they don’t like?
Leasa
By Leasa on 06.28.08 11:01 pm
Your audacity is only exceeded by your hypocrisy. You complain about other people slanderously being associated with Nazi’s, yet you are as bad or worse than they are.
You cowardly implied that Pierre Trudeau was a Nazi. Just as STEPHEN HARPER crossed over the line when he established himself as CANADA’S DIRTIEST POLITICIAN, EVER, when he accused Paul Martin of supporting child pornography, you crossed over the line when you said Pierre Trudeau “loved” Hitler.
Have you apologized to the Trudeau family yet?
I wasn’t sure – did you say Sir John A, MacDoandld had dual citizensh?
No, Garth it was one idiot named Leasa who started the whole Dion is not a loyal Canadian .
What of those thousands of Lebanese Canadians that we had to rescue when they were being bombed by the Israelis .
Dual citizenship is not uncommon in Canada .
I am entitled to both British and Canadian passports .
I can live and work in Britain if I choose .
It does not make me any less of a Canadian .
I highly resent,the fact, that anyone thinks otherwise .
I am proud of my English heritage but am fiercely Canadian .
I think Leasa owes all of us an apology.
Specifically Mr. Dion and his family .
She is always opening her,big,fat yap without realizing her words are potentially hurtful and damaging .
This is the fourth time that she has squealed about Dion’s citizenship .
Leasa,
and just to show you how off the mark you are, us “wild eyed partisan attack dogs” formed our opinion of Harper’s attitude to the USA and Canada by what he has done (or tried to do) as a party leader and PM.
Your suspicion of Dion’s loyalty is based on which statements or actions? Speaking of examining assumptions, yours are based on what?
Thank you Lawrence! But, I doubt that the wild eyed partisan attack dogs will even read or consider what you’ve said. But, you are bang-on. Leasa
By Leasa on 06.29.08 12:46 pm
You are getting more and more like Harry–projecting your own personality onto others. You have just accurately described yourself–perhaps someday you will acquire some insight and intra-personal intelligence.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, FYI & anyone
I just got this e-mail, and thought others might be interested and could also help, by writing an e-mail, see below.
The link below is to a 5 minute video by Brent Foster, Environmental Lawyer, State Conservation Chair, Oregon Sierra Club, on the water fluoridation issue.
I am encouraging each of you to take a few minutes this Canada Day Weekend to learn the truth about water fluoridation. We have a chance to end this in Hamilton July 9th. We need your help! Please email Ida Bedioui at the City of Hamilton stating that you oppose water fluoridation and request that she include your comments in the July 9th Board of Health Agenda. The agendas will be printed in the next few days.
If you can, please attend the July 9th meeting, Hamilton Convention Centre, 2nd Floor Albion Room, 9:30 a.m.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvExFr5J9BI
If you are a professional please consider signing the Profesionals Statement to End Water Fluoridation as many other Canadians have.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/professionals.statement.html
Please pass this on others and make a difference in Canada. Happy Canada Day.
For more good science on the Fluoride issue you can also go to;
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances. The assumptions underlying these attitudes should be examined more closely, IMO.
By Lawrence on 06.29.08 11:00 am
—————-
This is an outrageously maladjusted statement, akin to asking the age old question “have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
Yes or No, There is no satisfactory answer.
Based on the above odorous statement (which Leasa heartily endorses of course), the author states that there is NO ONE IN CANADA qualified to be Prime Minister, because no one in Canada has yet proven that they have not in the future abandoned allegiance to Canada.
This is a patently dishonest point of view, as it remains impossible for ANY Canadian to prove their unwavering allegiance to Canada in the FUTURE. The only thing that can ever be proven through action is non-allegiance in the past or present.
According to Leasa, to prove allegiance to Canada one must prove that they in future and in perpetuity will never not stand for Canada. How do you prove that to anyone?
It’s asking me to prove I will never get a traffic ticket in the future.
No one can PROVE events that haven’t happened yet.
You can only prove that someone (like Harper) DIDN’T stand up for Canada. You can not prove intent in advance of action.
No wonder Leasa loves this statement.
Leasa is the Queen of hypocrisy lives for opportunities to paint a corner into a room.
Digsusting behaviour by disgusting trolls. Nothing more.
Leasa, I really think it’s time for you to pack your bag of lame tricks and move on. Many of us are tired of your simple minded games.
Mr. Turner, surely you’re aware that her presence here is intended ONLY to divert attention from real issues through childishness and gamesmanship.
There are issues far too important to Canada out there. Please don’t allow a jackass like Leasa to hijack threads of importance.
After all, the French were here first and the British won a battle that could have easily gone either way. You people make me sick.
By slg on 06.29.08 9:26 am
Yes, slug, you are very good at dividing Canadians. Are you even Canadian?
Oh – if Stephen Harper held dual citizenship with say – USA – would you Libbers have a problem it that?
Please pass this on others and make a difference in Canada. Happy Canada Day.
For more good science on the Fluoride issue you can also go to;
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
By Greg W., Oakville on 06.29.08 3:40 pm
Thanks Greg, I’m adding Fluoride to my list, right after shower curtains.
Gord
Gord.
Leasa – you really are a piece of work. Obviously, French Canadians bother you or you wouldn’t bring it up. That’s an old bigotry from way back – farm country – “Orangemen” – parades. I know it’s true, I live in rural Ontario and some of the “elderly” have that opinion – old farmers. Funny, you should bring this up now – the orange lilies are about to bloom and Orangemen’s day is July 12.
Well, Leasa – this is 2008 and Canada doesn’t need your kind of nastiness and bigotry.
Just an obvious fyi, for Deb P., Lana, regular G.ord, Herb, Men, Brain, Charles, etc. and ALL of the interesting commenters. L.awrence’s identical tactics showed up on G.ord G.’s cuddle, then attack style.
Per all of your posts, great vigilance and some pretty funny comments too! Keep up the great work and chuckles. Seems L.easa and at least these 2 T.rolls are joined at the hips. “It” takes turns alternate days, jumping to the aide and praise of the alter-ego.
Anyway, have a great Sunday, and thanks for all being such good people. I really enjoy the info here on Garth’s blog and the sincere posts and obvious hard work. Makes me proud to be Canadian. Oh, and my Mom is American, with 400 years history on this continent. My Dad comes from over a dozen UEL family lines, as well as several dozen other Canadian family lines going back a few hundred years.
With the American attack-style politics rearing it’s ugly head here, you are all correct in spotting and stomping on it. My American cousins would agree.
Whoops – meant to add – we all know the Orangemen (Protestants)were against Catholics (in the OLD days) and the French Canadians were Catholic so it was all grouped together.
Those days are so over – except some backward farmer types.
I don’t know what happened but the provences have become so fixated on “I” that we have forgotten “we”. They expect to reap 100% of the wealth they produce without sharing but when it comes time to clean up the mess think that everyone should pay equally.
…
The best speech ever written was by John Kennedy. “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”.
By William Dahl on 06.29.08 1:50 pm
William,
What a marvelous comment. Thank you sincerely. The ‘I’ centred philosophy has come from the marketeers who brainwash people to think they are nothing unless they possess the latest gadget to make them appear successful. Success comes from within a person, not by what they have externally.
As one grows beyond that (some never do unfortunately for them) they come to realize what is truly important in life and who are real friends. The old line of ‘Keeping up with the Jones’ applies quite well. I do not know anyone named Jones so guess I avoided that consumeristic fallicy.
If you have ever travelled across this country think of the things you have seen and the people you have met.
I have, and Canada is a phenomenol country, all the same save for regional and local cultural differences and geography, but Canadian ALL. You have to spoend a tad bit o0f time living in a place to grasp the subtleties, but in the end, each is what makes canada the Best Country to Live, and I do mean LIVE, not merely ‘exist’, in.
The best speech ever written was by John Kennedy. “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”.
Likewise. JFK truly LED the nation by setting a common goal, and not by brute force or division. the Power Perverts killed him for it. His brother, Robert, as well. I will never forget that speech and watched it live. It literally energized the U.S.. I have not seen such true and honest leadership since until Barack Obama.
If our fine First Nations practiced what we do they would be EXTINCT because a society cannot survive on being ‘I’, but only by being ‘US’!
I watched the Winnipeg Comedy Fest on ‘Who is Your God’ and the Aboriginal was so spot on that I was shaking my head in agreement, applauding, and laughing all at the same time. His routine spoke of the silliness between our culture and his own. We could learn a great deal from our Aboriginal Brthers and Sisters, were we not so smartassed sure we are right. We are NOT!
Thanks again.
“I agree with you to a point. However, recruiting, screening, training, coordinating and retaining good volunteers takes money. From where, if not from government grants?” –By Lana on 06.29.08 11:19 am
This lines up exactly with my statement yesterday that the best things that can happen on Parliament Hill uis to try to find ways government can nurture healthy cultural trends.
We are learning that politics is downstream from culture, not the other way around.
We are in basic agreement.
Stephane Dion understands this Western Canadian.
The West isn’t just Alberta and Saskatchewan. In fact, given their backwards notions about the future of this planet I say we tell them the STFU and let the people do have an interest in seeing the PLANET survive more than one or two more generations, not just the country.
By Lawrence on 06.29.08 1:50
Lawrence Garvin,
You, Lawrence Garvin, compared me to Michael Jackson.
Since I have never given any indication that I am an entertainer, which I am not, the intent of the implication was unmistakable. Anyone reading your reference to Michael Jackson is likely to understand that you are accusing me, by implication, of molesting children. You obviously wanted people to THINK I molested children whether it was true or not. The cowardly implication, while not direct and MAYBE just beyond libel, because of the way it was phrased, is absolutely despicable and perhaps explains why you are the most heavily censored person on this blog.
You, Lawrence Garvin, are the coward and you, owe ME a retraction and an apology!
By Theo on 06.28.08 11:41 pm
I wish you would read my posts more closely. No where have I said or even indicated that I felt our Pm’s could not or should not be foreign born. I have no idea where you are get the idea of my position being the opposite of what I just stated. Please stop trying to put words into my mouth or revise what I actually wrote. Once again I will make it crystal clear by repeating what I wrote previously.
I don’t have a problem with PM or anybody for that matter being born outside of Canada or holding dual citizenship except for those that Garth has already alluded to which I would call part time residents (ie middlle east evacuation).
However what I do feel is that our PM like our GG should not hold dual citizenships for the reasons I have already stated. Which our current GG has already set the precedence for our two most senior office of government.
As I have already stated I could care less if MPs or anybody else are born outside of Canada and have dual citizenship. However any of them ever becomes our PM or GG then they should renounce their other citizenship upon taking the oath of office. which I have also previously stated. I trust this clears up your revision of my previous comments.
As for comments from others about me holding our PM to a higher standard. You are damn right I do just the same as I do with our GG.
Sheila,
You sound like the 2 kids who constantly knock on my door with blank eyes, sallow faces and uniform deadness, who tell me how happy they are since they found their god or something else that they were told to say by controlling elders. I speak my mind and tell them not to bother me again. But they don’t care what I say, since they can’t hear what anyone but their bosses say. They are brainwashed unfortunately.
Sheila, you have no idea what goodness is. Goodness is doing things because it’s the right thing to do, not for greedy and selfish reasons such as wanting to save your soul, Sheila.
And since when does charity not cost the government as you alledge? All the charities bleed money from gov. in their tax ded. scam, then keep the money for the power elites of the church. Very little goes to charity, and what does, has strings attached. Some charity, eh?
Get a grip about the scam you are caught up in, get out of your selfish mode and quit slamming the regular goodness of people who do things for the right reasons. It has nothing to do with government, except as Lana says, the government does provide funding for good, legitimate social causes.
Secular, non-religious people, agnostics and atheists are the smartest, kindest, most charitable, giving and thoughtful people I know. The religious people I know are bigoted, selfish, hate spewing and narrow minded, every one of them. That tells you something, and that’s a fact.
Examples?
A Canadian 2nd cousin in law, very religious, hates blacks and gays.
A U.S. cousin in law, becoming a deacon, very Republican pro-Bush, despises gays, including his own brother-in-law. He also hates blacks.
A U.S. cousin in law, very right wing, hates gays, and will only listen to Rush Limbaugh. He refuses to read world news, and oh, BTW he won’t let his gay brother-in-law’s partner in the house!
A U.S. uncle, widow of my aunt, very religious, very Republican, and has always, otherwise been an uncle I liked, but now he barely tolerates his gay son and his partner.
My gay nephew and his husband could not get married in a church, despite the husband being religious himself.
A Catholic friend spews hate and denial about climate change.
None of these people have any clue that they are being used, that religion itself is being used as a tool to help divide an conquer. And yet you, sheila, help the wealthy who don’t give a damn other than to line their pockets off of people like you. You either work for them or are ultimately naive.
Shall I go on with more examples?
Dion’s dual citizenship seems to be causing quite a little stir on Garth Turner’s blog. Small things amuse small minds! Dion has proven his love and commitment to Canada with The Clarity Act. The neo cons grasp at straws in trying to find something to condemn Dion with. Their fake concern for Canada is laughable because when they are presented with the real danger Canada faces under Harper, day in and day out, they remain silent.
What should be of greater concern to Canadians is the bestowing of B’nai Brith’s highest honour- The Presidential Gold Medallion for Humanitarianism, on Harper.
What great humanitarian works has Harper done, you might ask?
Why, he condoned Israel’s brutal assault on Lebanese civilians, by calling it,”a measured response”. Human Rights Watch called it a War Crime.
When MP Boris Wrzeskewskyj told the truth about what he witnessed while touring war torn Lebanon, he was forced to apologize. Harper condones War Crimes and he gets a medal. In the light of this very revealing information and all you can find to carp about, is Dion’s dual citizenship, is very sad.
The fact that this was barely covered by MSM speaks volumes.
Christ almighty, this is a serious waste of my time reading most of the whining that has occurred over this subject from what seems to be from the beginning of time.
Will someone that opposes Dion’s dual citizenship that can, heaven forbid, discuss this in a civil manner tell me WHY this is an issue to froth at the mouth like a rabid dog?
Would I give a fat rat’s a$$ if Harper was dual citizen with America? Well now I would be but if he maintained a somewhat distant relationship with the US it would not concern me. To integrate us with them and IF he was to hold his dual citizenship would trouble me greatly.
Hehe, I almost think that those shooting down Mr Dion would be worried we would be more likely to be branded with anything similiar to Freedom Fries and Freedom Bread. What a waste of time licking one’s wounds.
Funny thing about all this blustering from Mr Dion’s opponents on this website…should we NOT be debating this if and when he becomes elected as the country’s PM? I am NOT predicting that he will be, nor am I predicting that he will not be, whenever the next election is. What I am stating is that we should debate that topic when it becomes relevant. Until that point in time, people that are foaming are doing nothing more than wasting their time and energy into a topic that really no one in Canada should care about.
Personally I expect any political leader to give up his or her citizenship when a position of elected leadership that directly represents and governs any country to be given up. No exceptions…ever.
So until Mr Dion becomes our PM, whenever that may be, this petty bickering is precious waste of time that ALL of us will never recover from.
By b.arb the p.roof-r.eader on 06.29.08 2:38 pm
B.arb,
I think you may be having somewhat of a kneejerk reaction to your perception to Sheila’s comment.
Centralized government certainly has its places in things like defense, foreign trade, and other national issues and international relations. A central government’s function should be to assure that ALL citizens receive the same treatment and benefits, however, being realitic, we still need local administration, i.e., face to face with the agent and the client to assess the situation on a personal basis.
What Sheila is saying, IMHO, is that some bureaucrat in Oddawahaha cannot make a life critical decision based on somem broadbased guidelines found in their desktop reference of ‘Rules and Actions.’ Such are designed to meet the 50% tile of the populance, and deny service to those outside that narrow spectrum. Likewise, setting parametres that accommodate such percentile rankings leave serious gaps creating inequalities.
Take for instance the wording of the U.S. Constitution regarding the duties of the Federal Government ‘To look after the general welfare of the populance.’
Now, if you ask a typical Old School Democrat what that means they will be thinking ‘Anything I can think of (to have control).’ Ask a Republican the same question and the response will be ‘What do you mean by general welfare?’ I use the American analogy because it is far wider separated than our Canadian, at least it was before Harper and Harris.
Ask the person who has lived through a bad situation, ior is currnetly in one, or those who deal with helping them and you will get some answers that have meaning.
Life has no guarantees. Today you can be healthy, tomorrow in a coma or struck down by other health issues. That is where sentient legislation must be accomplished to assure every citizen that they, regardless of economic or other status will have their personal diginity and future protected by our society to the best of our collective ability. People matter, materialism is secondary after the essentials of life, which are food, rainment, shelter, and health, and human caring. In today’s vast structure transportation has also become a true necessity.
You know I deeply respect your comments, but I think Sheila has been labelled and misunderstood by many here on Garth’s Blog. Just my two-cents worth of opinion.
You sound like the 2 kids who constantly knock on my door with blank eyes, sallow faces and uniform deadness, who tell me how happy they are since they found their god or something
By b.arb the p.roof-r.eader on 06.29.08 5:00 pm
I tend to agree about the people that push religion in your face? I don’t much like the door knockers tell them to take a hike, too. Religion should be a personal choice and the Sheila’s of the world generally turn me off.
See b.arb, there are some things we can agree on.
Gord.
After all, the French were here first and the British won a battle that could have easily gone either way. You people make me sick.
By slg on 06.29.08 9:26 am
Yes, slug, you are very good at dividing Canadians. Are you even Canadian?
Oh – if Stephen Harper held dual citizenship with say – USA – would you Libbers have a problem it that?
By Catherine on 06.29.08 4:05 pm
Okay Catherine – enough is enough – read your Canadian history. As for being Canadian – I am absolutely offended by your absolutely STUPID remark. Not that it’s any of your business my dear – but my family were among the earliest settlers in Canada – cleared the land and built a country up and I’m proud of them. Some were United Empire Loyalists, some just labourers and farmers and stone masons.
You know what divides Canada – people like you with your bigotry. You shouldn’t be allowed to call yourself Canadian – you are too shameful to be one.
My sister married a French Canadian – her children are part English Canadian and French Canadian – to think like people like you don’t care who you hurt – you just want to attack and attack and attack with absolutely no substance.
I won’t apologize to you about how Canadian I am – I’m as Canadian as one can get – roots from many generations ago. I’m proud of my family.
You make me sick.
Conservatives are back stabbing bigots.
Too bad more Quebecers didn’t know just how bigoted you people are.
By G Cunningham on 06.29.08 5:11 pm
Hey there, G, do you know who the author of the Clarity Act is? Here’s a hint…it was someone who was in the Reform Party years ago. Another hint: Preston Manning was trying desperately to get Chretien to implement the Clarity Act in the months leading up to the vote that almost cost us the loss of Quebec. Okay…here’s the answer: it was Stephen Harper. AFTER the Liberals almost lost this country…Dion was given the task of implementing the act. Which, as you know cost him the absolute hatred of his former Separatist buddies.
Leasa
By Ben on 06.29.08 4:02 pm
Hey Ben-Gord, Michael Jackson whoever you are. First of all…I am on topic. I responded to Garth’s topic.
For all you name-callers (which you only do when the question hits a nerve) never once did I say that Mr. Dion is not loyal to Canada. So for Goodness sake, quit your lying, especially when it’s so obvious.
My still unanswered question that I have every right to ask of a man that wants to lead my country, still is; why did France allow Dion to keep the citizenship? They ruled on the GG, the ruling was in the media…what was the ruling on Dion? And, why?
Mr. Dion in recent years since his involvement in the separatist movement, does seem to be loyal to Canada.
And Ben-Gord (think I’ll shorten that to Benord), You know very well, it’s been well documented that Trudeau was a Nazi sympathizer. You also know, Benord, that Mr. Harper did not say that Martin was a child molester, that he was in fact referring to the liberals 13 year refusal to get tough on crimes against children…especially when they allowed child molesters to get house-arrest. But, Benord, if you had been following politics in Canada at all during the Liberal reign o tainted blood and terror you would have known that. OH, I’m not calling them terrorists…but my guess is that you are too dumb to know that either.
Cheers! L
Being partly blind in both eyes has drawbacks; at the Euro 2008 soccer final in Vienna today, I could swear that on TV, a few German fans raised their arms in a Nazi-style salute, but I can’t be sure.
The Dark Ages seem to be making a comeback. The riots in France a year or so ago, mostly against Muslims, social unrest in the UK, caused by the economic slowdown.
White supremacists, skinheads and the KKK tend to align themselves against folk of different colors, because they’re easy to intimidate and pick on. Real courageous people.
Anyway, terrific final. Spain beat Germany 1-0 in a mostly fast-paced game.
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Anyone knows that history almost invariably repeats, and this is no exception. Excerpt (parens mine):
Bush fulfills his grandfather’s dream
“. . . documenting President George W. Bush’s grandfather’s involvement in a 1933 plot to overthrow the U.S. government and install a fascist dictatorship (ultra right-wing). I knew the story, but had not considered the possibility that the grandson was trying to accomplish what his grandfather had failed to achieve.”
harpo was desperate for a majority to lead Canada down the same road as dubya has taken the US, but (thank goodness) there is NO chance that will ever happen now.
The majority of voters have seen our emperor (CRAP + policies), and will realize they are wearing no clothes; this is why Dion will be elected, as he is the best option.
http://tinyurl.com/5hct6n
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What, exactly is inflation? Seems there are many different components.
http://tinyurl.com/msno7
*******************************************
“Wars are rarely fought over national security issues, as political leaders often claim. At rock bottom, they are mostly fought over economic issues.”
Well, the US is broke and can’t be repaired, which is why dubya is planning his grand exit — invading Iran, which will undoubtedly trigger WWIII; this rat shit piece of land (queen hairy’s words) isn’t far behind, and the US greenback is losing it’s shirt.
The greenback’s slide is increasing prices for everything worldwide — and, of course, all empires run their course, such as the Mayan, Roman, Aztec empires, etc.
http://tinyurl.com/5buhq3
By Bill-Muskoka on 06.29.08 6:17 pm
Don’t be taken in by Sheila. Sheila is a student of the Ayn Rand ideology and holds right wing extremist views.
Whoops – meant to add – we all know the Orangemen (Protestants)were against Catholics (in the OLD days) and the French Canadians were Catholic so it was all grouped together.
Those days are so over – except some backward farmer types.
By slg on 06.29.08 4:29 pm
So slug, can one have a business with English only sign in Quebec? Answer: NO!
How about a Chinese restaurant with Chinese only sign? Answer: No!
So do these Catholic francophones against the “Orangemen”? Or are they just backward farmer types?
A question for those of you who would require immigrants to Canada to renounce their past citizenship(s).
Would such a declaration by Karlheinz Schreiber have made him a more honest businessman and lobbyist?
Does it mean that because a Prime Minister is Canadian born and not a dual citizen after the fact for having lived outside of Canada for some period of time before returning to enter politics but renounced his duality make him more trust worthy? Ask former PM Brian Mulroney and what ever his answer, will you believe it?
The premise that loyalty to a country, flag, or government is predicated on the renouncing of prior citizenships is not a credible test in my opinion. Only the actions of that citizen during and after their swearing allegiance to the Crown and the Flag can prove or disprove the loyalty there of. The Mulroney/Schreiber case is not the only example but it is only that, an example.
Fourth – he doesn’t understand the western Canadian people. If he understood, he would not have made such a statement about “university jobs” and his Carbon Tax impact on Saskachewans booming economy.
=======================================
I am Western Canadian born and raised, but have lived in Oshawa for 44 years. I detect in recent past visits out home and current postings on various forii that “The West” has changed significantly from what it used to be. there is a disease created and fostered by “Uppity Corpulent Manglement” that enslaves the residents to an elitist better than thou attitude all the while driving the employees to work ever harder and longer for less and less. I’ve seen it for over four decades here in the “East” and recognize it’s insideous mental poisons. when an RCMP told me to go back to where I came from, because my car had Ontario plates, he was very angry when I flashed my birth certificate that proved my origins were local. This idea that only Alberta owns the oil and oilsands will be your downfall. I have yet to see anyone create any of this wealth, as it was already there just waiting to be found. There is a serious moral trap that the parochial elitists are falling into. How these resources are used and how they are paid for by all the worlds citizens is far more important than you currently envisage. When every Chinese and India resident owns 2 or 3 cars plus has access to full time electric power, the who World will be choking from the air pollution. I am told that today the air quality in downtown Hong Kong is so bad that your eyes burn and your throat itches. The wake up call is being ignored to our peril. A Carbon Tax is probably not going to do the job, but fair strict rationing of energy supplies will only if it is World Wide. Our Canadian contribution of 2% of the total problem will only be a token if it is reduced. Remember that the Sudbury acid smoke from Inco was detectable in Norway, Scotland and Sweden. Chernobyl was detected World wide. Go figure.
By Catherine on 06.28.08 9:20 pm
“Just my two-cents worth of opinion”
BY BILL-MUSKOKA ON 06.29.08 6:17 PM
Hi Bill, I hope you’re having a lovely day. I always appreciate your comments..you wise-guy, er, wise man,
but this gal’s comments are not as simple as she makes out. It goes back several days. She’s in and out of the fishing stage, looking for agreement on one thing, glorious terms and all, then back to the trolling agenda after she catches someone to generally agree with her.
She’s had a few posts that gave her away, and William Laidlaw and Brain, Liz, Judy, and others have been calling her to task.
For instance, her CWB comments, are really just the NCC – and you know what that means. Robo-Troll territory – a dead giveaway.
So a couple of those comments back at her, include:
By WILLIAM LAIDLAW 06.27.08 7:39PM when he said
“Still waiting for your precis of the rationale used for the creation of the Canadian Wheat Board”
and another day she said “The Liberal approach is to centralize power, and that got us nowhere. And you want to return to that?” To which Brain replied, in a long and excellent post:
“If you had actually tried — you would quickly see “who really benefits” in a decision to destroy the board.”
BY BRAIN 06.25.08 11:59 PM
So Bill, I understand where you’re coming from, just looking at today only, but my statement to her is broader, considering she’s just reading off the card – that she’s supposed to cheer for de-centralized government, but so far hasn’t made any sense. This ‘charity-central-gov’t can’t help from top down’, blah blah is just her feel-good cover for today, as she looks for agreement from anyone who will fall into her carved out trap of the day.
A hard look at her posts, and overall, they have the exact odour of robot. Annoying aren’t they? Isn’t your term gnatzies?
BY JAMES R. MCGILLAWEE 06.29.08 8:37 PM
James,
I very much appreciate your post. I’m from SW Ontario, but I moved to Calgary 30 years ago. You and I swapped places it seems. That comment you referred to came from a woman in Garth’s area, not a westerner. People like her say things to falsely stir the pot.
I agree with your sentiments. Listening to my politicians here, who seem to claim that Albertans work harder than other Canadians, while standing knee-high in oil, just doesn’t make sense, but the locals only get to hear such talk, and they are whipped up to hate the east, etc.
Seems we have no memory or reminder of how the nation was built, so Albertans just act like angry children with a toy they see no reason to share, even though the family sacrificed and shared everything with them to raise them.
The big picture yes, is poison – caught every word.
And your statement, “This idea that only Alberta owns the oil and oilsands will be your downfall.”
Alberta politicians have put us in a terrible spot. They have failed. But they continue to fall for the big oil dance. We could have kept so much of the money in Alberta, in Canada, but politics and stupidity interfered. Alberta fell for it.
Alberta politicians, unlike other smarter countries with resources like this, aided the corporate raiders. We built a system with politicians who are a mix of greedy lobbyists and dumb idiots. They keep the people in the dark too, so there’s not much opposition. Works well. As long as they are fed well, and are told where the enemy are, they seem happy.
Don’t watch this video if you are happy to live a lie.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kYyzzTXHRSc
Far too much bandiwdth has been sadly wasted on Leasa and her hypocritical partisan rants.
I for one do not intend to engage her further, as her absurdly strange posts here clearly demonstrate that she is hypocritical, paranoid, and possibly delusional.
She’s here to undermine Dion and the Liberal party and nothing more. It’s obvious beyond belief.
In summary, I will lead by example and follow this simple rule when it comes to conversing with Leasa:
“Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.”
Leasa, I hereby acknowledge your superior level of experience.
(Leasa, since you are obviously quite clueless, perhaps I will, as a courtesy point out that this is not a compliment)
Catherine: You mean, Harper doesn’t have dual citizenship with the United States!!! You’d never know it!! With all his pro-American rhetoric and rah rah for the Iraq war rabble rousing I would have bet anything that he was a closet American.
Guess you never really know a person.
Gord disgorged this; You, Lawrence Garvin, are the coward and you, owe ME a retraction and an apology!
To think that I actually got upset about this earlier!!! LOL
You know what’s missing from your paranoid delusion, Gord? There is one element – among many – that must be obvious even to you. Can you guess what it is? Leave aside the fact that you haven’t the nerve to quote me directly… leave aside the fact that you decide 10 WEEKS after my comment that it really meant something odious that you had missed previously… leave aside the stench of desperation radiating from your recent posts and ask yourself what’s missing.
Any idea?
Okay, I’ll tell you. What’s missing is even the slightest reaction from anyone else. Do you think if I actually accused someone of being a CHILD MOLESTER that everyone else on this board would simply ignore it? Do you? I don’t think anyone would fail to object to such an outrageous slander. And yet no-one has said a word… not a question, not a condemnation, not a single expression of curiousity. You know what that means, don’t you?
It means no-one believes you. Of all the people who read your post today I was the only one who took it seriously.
I was the only one who had even a momentary reaction to your ugly & paranoid delusions.
I won’t make that mistake again.
Garth,
I would hope that being born in another country would not preclude a Canadian citizen from becoming a member of Parliament. Are you insinuating that someone said that?
Now, running for prime minister of Canada as a citizen of another country is completely wrong. Whether or not you want a Frenchman leading this country is irrelevant, a large majority of Canadians do not.
By “Frenchman” do you mean a French-Canadian, the kind of Canadian that was here before you? — Garth
“Ben” been bawling; This is an outrageously maladjusted statement, akin to asking the age old question “have you stopped beating your wife yet?”
No Ben, it’s not. If you’d read and responded to what I’d said – rather than beating on this strawman of your own construction – then we’d both be a lot further ahead.
Dion’s dual citizenship is an issue for some folks. Screaming and yelling at them may feel good to you, it may even make the shy types keep their concerns to themselves, but it doesn’t actually put the issue to rest. Quite the contrary in fact.
I gave my opinion earlier in the thread. If you want to debate about it you’ll have to go back and read it again because I think you missed it on the first pass.
So do these Catholic francophones against the “Orangemen”? Or are they just backward farmer types?
By Catherine on 06.29.08 8:08 pm
…okay – now you’ve really hit stupid. Catherine – give it a rest. You just don’t understand Canada’s history.
Catherine- other than bigots and trolls like you – we’ve (Canada) come a long way baby. Too bad you haven’t.
I wonder if you’ve ever been to Old Quebec City – seen the history. It’s quite an adventure and very interesting.
Boy, I’m glad I had parents and ancesters like I had….they built up this country and taught me not to hate.
Conservatives are bigots and the sooner Quebec knows the better.
Don’t be taken in by Sheila. Sheila is a student of the Ayn Rand ideology and holds right wing extremist views.
By C. B. Innes on 06.29.08 7:44 pm
A hard look at her posts, and overall, they have the exact odour of robot. Annoying aren’t they? Isn’t your term gnatzies?
By b,arb the p,roof-r,eader on 06.29.08 8:44 pm
Thank you for your thoughts. I, as you may have come to know, am non-partisan. If I see comments that I hold to be of value fand worthy of thought, then I respond positively. Likewise, if I find comments to be deceptive and unworthy of response I either ignore them, or counter them appropriately.
In the real world there is a thing called diplomacy and tact. The alternative is the club and splattering of corpuscular matter in a meelee if thoughtless vengance.
I live, therefore, by the ancient Chinese wisdom of ‘I sit on the bank of the river and wait the body of mine enemy to float by.’
The only other choice is one based on paranoia, and I find that to be rather taxing to the extreme.
In short, I have met those who seek to delude, and they reveal themselves by the Light of a single candle in due time.
Remember, a good idea is a good idea regardless of where it comes from. I would also point out that even the most potent enemy may be a teacher from which we can learn, for if the insrtructor is not more adept than the student, how can one learn to be a Master?. I believe an ancient Arab developed a game called Chess to teach such lessons. His name was Salhadin.
We should all consider, or at least re-consider, that even in the words of our most fearsome, and that means cunning, enemy there are lessons to be gleaned not only about ourselves, but about the perceived opponent. Perception and delusion are long tiome partners. One percieves, yet comprehends not. One may comprehend yet not perceive. A dichotomy of the gravest proportions to be sure.
Likewise, have you ever fished?
Leasa 06.29.08 10:10 am
Going back…when Dion was an active campaigning separatist…the separatists in Quebec were actively trying to form allegiance for their cause with France.
WHY did France allow Dion to keep the citizenship?? We knew their ruling on GG Jean…what was Dion’s?
Garth…if I am an idiot for asking this question, I think you will find 80% of this country are idiots, because when it explodes during the campaign inquiring minds will want to know. Fine, you and Dion can stand on the soapbox and simply call them all idiots.
Were you Tory sympathizers trying to make an issue of Dion’s dual citizenship adults when John Turner was PM? Did you make an issue of Turner’s dual citizenship? Did anybody? I certainly don’t remember it coming up. Nor should it have. Nor should it now; it has nothing to do with whether Dion would make a competent PM and the implication that it even suggests something less than complete loyalty to Canada is completely specious.
As far as I’m concerned you’re nothing but Harpercrits. If Harper happened to have dual citizenship I don’t believe for a moment you would show the least concern about it. And in the unlikely event that any Grit or other opposition supporters did try to make it an issue you would be defending Harper even more stridently than you are now attacking Dion. As to France’s attitude why don’t you ask them directly? Perhaps they’ll insist he renounce his French citizenship when he becomes Prime Minister, or maybe they’ll make an exception in his case, or maybe they’ll change their law. Personally I don’t care. And I think you will find that 80% of this country agrees with me. Well, make that 70%. It does seem that 30% of Canadians are idiots since they support the Tories.
Lawrence 06.29.08 11:00 am
… Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances.
I won’t commit to “any circumstances”, but under the current circumstances Stephane Dion has probably accomplished more than any other living Canadian towards keeping our Country intact. For much of my adult life until the 1995 referendum, Quebec Separatism did nothing but continue to gain strength, from what was nothing much more than a lunatic fringe in the early 60’s to a movement that came within a hair of prevailing. Given the referendum results and trends in place at the time their eventual success seemed almost a certainty. It was Dion’s Clarity Act and his management of the federalist case before the Supreme Court on related issues that turned the tide. The separatists may yet prevail of course, but if they don’t my guess is that 50 years from now the historians of the day will give Dion most of the credit. If I had any realistic chance to live that long I would willingly bet some serious money on it.
Would you acknowledge that Lucien Bouchard was at least as effective a leader as Stephen Harper? Every bit as competent and with much more charisma, even in English. Well, after 5 years in an adversarial relationship with Dion, Bouchard gave up and left politics. I think he decided he didn’t have a leg to stand on.
And so, Lawrence, (and Leasa, Van, Randy, …) while Dion’s loyalty may not be in the sacred cow category, he has more than anyone else earned the right to have his loyalty to Canada presumed unless and until he does or says something truly treacherous. Dual citizenship and separatist sentiments of 30 years ago do not qualify. Not by a long shot.
Regards,
EhBC
By Judy on 06.29.08 9:49 pm
Harper, and his buddy Dubya are neither American nor any other nationality., They are power pervert Globalists, who believe if they cater to the world elite will be duly rewarded for their lapdog behaviour,. They are merely expendable assets to further the goals of those who hide behind their walled estates and have no meaningful lives. Their only reward for their existence is more money and power. They disdain the very concept of patriotism, but as Goebbels well taught, know the ways of mass deception.
As MSS would say..’We shall roast they stomachs!’ Look up and around. The world has already changed, The centre of power has already been shifted. They are merely rabid dogs in the last of their self-induced death throes. Yet, beware, for their bite, their very lick, will bring about suffering and death.
Racism is alive and well in the Conservative party.
I question Harper’s loyalty and his need to ’suck up’ to the present American administration. History has shown where his loyalties lie and they ain’t with Canada and Canadians.
I know of a few people in the military with dual citizenship. Do you suggest that they shouldn’t be representing Canada? That their loss of life would be less meaningful than someone who was born in Canada and only holds one passport??
I know this will disappoint the Cons but Canada’s flag has two colours not 3.
This issue about dual is just Con-speak for bigotry spam.
Prime Minister MacKenzie Bowell was faced with the Manitoba School Question.
This was a very divisive time for our country.
Reading some of the comments here today make me quite sad.
Please take a moment and read about the tumultuous time Canada faced at such an early age.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/2/4/h4-3131-e.html
“Dual citizenship and separatist sentiments of 30 years ago do not qualify.
In your opinion. As I said initially, I think the debate is moot in any case. But as a general principle I think anyone who wishs to lead a democratic country ought to renounce his/her citizenship in any other country (where applicable). The counter example of John Turner doesn’t impress me much because John Turner was never elected as Prime Minister. He walked into the job and promptly lost it.
I take nothing away from Mr. Dion’s role in the unity debate although I think you give him rather too much credit for vanguishing Mr. Bouchard.
But Mr. Bouchard himself ought to be proof enough that loyalties shift – sometimes quite dramatically – and Mr. Dion’s have gone through one significant shift already.
It’s odd that Dion himself has suggested that he’d give up his French citizenship if enough people thought it was a problem. Well, it seems that some people do think it’s a problem. Whether or not they meet his threshold of “enough” is an open question. What I find odd is how many people get irate when the subject comes up. No topic is taboo.
Mr Garth TurnerMP, FYI
If any of you would like to help the people of Hamilton stop the adding of Fluoride to our drinking water you can write an e-mail.
This e-mail has the person to write to, I just received it.
Hi Folks:
Just adding email address for Ida Bedioui, Clerks Office at the City of Hamilton, to make letter writing on water fluoridation easier for you.
ibedioui@hamilton.ca
If you mist the post above and what to learn most about the fluoride issue;
The link below is to a 5 minute video by Brent Foster, Environmental Lawyer, State Conservation Chair, Oregon Sierra Club, on the water fluoridation issue.
I am encouraging each of you to take a few minutes this Canada Day Weekend to learn the truth about water fluoridation. We have a chance to end this in Hamilton July 9th. We need your help! Please email Ida Bedioui at the City of Hamilton stating that you oppose water fluoridation and request that she include your comments in the July 9th Board of Health Agenda. The agendas will be printed in the next few days.
If you can, please attend the July 9th meeting, Hamilton Convention Centre, 2nd Floor Albion Room, 9:30 a.m.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvExFr5J9BI
If you are a professional please consider signing the Profesionals Statement to End Water Fluoridation as many other Canadians have.
http://www.fluoridealert.org/professionals.statement.html
Please pass this on others and make a difference in Canada. Happy Canada Day.
For more good science on the Fluoride issue you can also go to;
http://www.fluoridealert.org/
BY SLG ON 06.29.08 9:26 AM
SLG,
That was a great thought, sending the conservative supporter’s bigoted statements for all to see in Quebec, although I’m sure many of them have already figured out they were played by Harper, just like the rest of Canada was and is. Also noted are the news items that Dube posted making it all too clear that all of these conservative MPs do not support the gay community whatsoever.
Hi John Duddy on 06.29.08 9:11 pm,
Thanks for the link.
Have you seen these movies yet?
a copal links to both.
Shod watch this first,
Plato’s; ‘Allegory of the Cave’. 7min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ei7LqbYb8M&feature=related
America: Freedom to Fascism (2006)
Intro to, 3min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K0z8q1prhA
America: From Freedom to Fascism (part 1 of 11)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ueEfRXZCVA&feature=related
America: Freedom to Fascism – Director’s Authorized Version – 111 min – May 5, 2007
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
YouTube – Zeitgeist – The Movie – 1 of 13 (Introduction)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mzciu8HvfwA
Zeitgeist – The Movie
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Lyin’Leasa . Nice try .
On September 30, 1996, Dion would submit three questions to the Supreme Court of Canada constituting the Supreme Court Reference re Secession of Quebec:
1. Under the Constitution of Canada, can the National Assembly, legislature, or government of Quebec effect the secession of Quebec from Canada unilaterally?
2. Does international law give the National Assembly, legislature, or government of Quebec the right to effect the secession of Quebec from Canada unilaterally? In this regard, is there a right to self-determination under international law that would give the National Assembly, legislature or government of Quebec the right to effect the secession of Quebec from Canada unilaterally?
3. In the event of a conflict between domestic and international law on the right of the National Assembly, legislature, or government of Quebec to effect the secession of Quebec from Canada unilaterally, which would take precedence in Canada?
As soon as these questions were made public, both parties of the National Assembly, the Bloc Québécois and numerous federalists denounced Ottawa’s gesture. An Act respecting the exercise of the fundamental rights and prerogatives of the Québec people and the Québec State was passed in the National Assembly of Quebec by the Parti Québécois government two days after the Clarity Act had been introduced in the Canadian House of Commons.
Harpo had some stupid private members bill that never went anywhere .
Dion is the father of the clarity act .
Nice try,idiot !
BY BILL-MUSKOKA 06.29.08 10:27 PM
Bill, your zen pool overflows tonight Obi-Wan.. You kid of course…. I’ve seen your posts.
After seeing the right wing tear the U.S. into pieces, I was gobsmacked when Harper the NCC Lobbyist and Reformer became prime minister. I never thought Canadians could be that dumb.
My brother-in-law brought Garth’s blog to our attention. I just started reading it a few months back.
I feel if a person is not part of the solution, then they are part of the problem. I decided to start reading a lot more, and try to figure out what’s up. In noticing the lying trolls here, I also noted their tactics and how they never miss a chance to propagandize. Then I got personally attacked a couple of times, so I won’t fall for their insincerity and dirty tricks.
The utter hate from the conservative trolls is something important to speak up about and not let them get away with their vandalism of truth. If I saw someone vandalizing my neighbour’s property, I would report them. This is no different. When they pose momentarily to attack attention, it’s just a trap.
Bill, when the truth has been lost, there is nothing else. When people can be automated by Harper to spread hate, threats, and misinform people at every turn, I think every Canadian has the responsibility to call out these vandals. If they go fishing for compliments and suck someone into agreement, that’s just a tactic. I’ll give them no breaks now. I’m so proud of the other commenters who have also spotted the lying, smears, innuendo, threats and hate from thee conservative hired guns who attempt to spread propaganda and lies at every turn. It’s sickening, to see these traitors come here and vandalize Garth’s comment section – there’s no excuse for that kind of immoral behavior.
But, so be it. It gives us an opportunity. Their lies are in print. If I’m talking to someone at the store for example, I tell them to take a gander at garth.ca so they can see Harper’s tactics in action. So this is great. Some Calgarians won’t budge, but there’s other’s who have had it. So the trolls are only digging graves for themselves now, as each new post by them, gets the ire of more people.
And Bill, to answer you, when I was a kid my Dad would take us fishing when we went camping or cottaging around Ontario. So I haven’t fished in 40 years.
Barb;
Thanks for calling Sheila out. I noticed that we didn’t get the name of the rapper in that nice little story either. My first suspicion is a religious rapper.
Sheila:
The best thing that could happen for social service work to actually have an impact would be for any tax monies now given to a religious organization in this country by any level of government to be stopped.
I work in this field and the worst pigs at the trough are the churches. They divert the money to mission rather than actually doing the work they are supposed to do with the money they receive. Its appalling. And then they force feed the religious crap on the poor and down trodden as a condition of helping them.
I have no problem with your neighbourhood barbecue scenario if it was organized by the people in the neighbourhood. This is called community and is nothing new. Its happening all over this country all the time. In fact, our neighbourhood block party was two weekends ago.
Your comments about poor people not being assisted by centralized governments is disingenuous. Government is needed to set national standards in health care and housing, as two of the items specifically related to your discussion. In both of these areas, there is considerable effort being applied by lobbyists for corporations (think Big Pharma and developers) to have government give up the national standards and allow more private involvement. Without government standing firm on the Canada Health Act, we’ll end up with a system just like the Americans have. Our governments have failed in the housing department and that’s why we have a homeless population. Its going to take national leadership on this issue to resolve. Thankfully Dion has a plan for this.
As for the Child Tax benefits, maternity time-off and other benefits provided by a central government how do you suppose women would have a fighting chance to participate in the economy at all. Government has a role to play in our country because the corporations don’t play fair and pay a living wage or an equitable wage to women. Without a central government, we’d have a patchwork quilt of regulations and the corporations would win even more often.
The kind of country you’ve been advocating is not one that I want to be a citizen of.
Sheila;
I re-read your post and I would like to point out that you said “The philosophy that I represent has not been tried and found wanting. It has not been wanted, and so has been left untried.”
There are many reasons why your philosophy is not wanted. It is all very nice that you helped a single mother move. Who can help her pay the rent? Without a government to stand in when families fall apart, how is that mother going to pay the rent? It’s nice for people to buy pizza on moving day but are you there when the cupboards are bare?
Our government took over where churches and neighbours were unable or unwilling to pay the rent and put food on the table of the least among us without attaching conditions. I certainly don’t want to go back to that scenario. In fact, I’m sure we should go further by removing all government funding to churches. I’ve seen so much abuse by churches in my daily work life at a homeless shelter that I want to scream this from the rooftops or the highest mountain. It’s obscene what goes on in this country with churches and government funding.
The last comment, I’d like to make is that it’s all well and good for your son to have a wonderful, well-paid government job. Does he know that you advocate less or no government in social services? If you had your way with your philosophy, might not he be without his job, benefits and pension?
Catherine- other than bigots and trolls like you – we’ve (Canada) come a long way baby. Too bad you haven’t.
I wonder if you’ve ever been to Old Quebec City – seen the history. It’s quite an adventure and very interesting.
Boy, I’m glad I had parents and ancesters like I had….they built up this country and taught me not to hate.
Conservatives are bigots and the sooner Quebec knows the better.
By slg on 06.29.08 10:16 pm
Really, slug, so why did you bother with your stupid comments about “orangemen” and “backward farmers”.
And btw, many immigrants built Canada! It’s too bad your parents taught you to hate your opponents and to be hypocrite.
And oh yeah – I have been to Quebec City many times. And I have been to Montreal many times. I visited friends in Montreal – even during the FLQ times and bombings. I prefer Quebec City over Montreal any day!
Now have you been Alberta and Saskachewan?
Man with Hats,
I was hoping someone would pull the rug out from under Li’l Leasa’s tapdancing feet. Good job. Thanks.
Bill, your zen pool overflows tonight Obi-Wan.. You kid of course…. I’ve seen your posts.
I’ll give them no breaks now.
And Bill, to answer you, when I was a kid my Dad would take us fishing when we went camping or cottaging around Ontario. So I haven’t fished in 40 years.
By b,arb the p,roof-r,eader on 06.30.08 1:14 am
Ah, my fillin for Jon Stewart’s ‘Moment of Zen’ has been successful. LOL
Now, as to not giving them any breaks. Consider the tactics of the Martial Arts Master…’bend to the enemy that the enemy may destroy themself, if truly they are without honour.’ As Obi Wan said ‘Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can imagine!’
The greatest enemy is fear, and if one feels fear then the enemy has already won. The tactics of the Bully are such, and yet, to avoid the moment may be the worst thing to do.
As a Babylon-5 episode showed when a good man of virtue was attacked by the thugs in the lower levels he said after being struck the first time by the lead thug ‘Hit me again if you will. Will the second, or third, or fourth time be better or lesser than the first? Will you still not accomplished your goal?’
Now, as to the fishing. I find there are many important life lessons afforded by wetting a line. One learns to read the waters, the shore, to select the proper enticement, and above all patience. Yet even when the opponent takes the hook, and is overpowered, the prosepone (face to face) encounter reveals the opponents magnificence and respect is exchanged.
Then, again, it is much easier to find a focused location such as the supermarket or a restaurant and have it served their way. See, the Zen is still flowing even this morning.
Have a great day. We are off to many things this fine day.
Man with Hats,
I was hoping someone would pull the rug out from under Li’l Leasa’s tapdancing feet. Good job. Thanks.
By Herb on 06.30.08 8:55 am
Glad to help out Herb ,
By Men With Hats on 06.30.08 12:56 am
Is ignorance really bliss? If so, you must be one happy s.o.b. LOL
“Harper was active on constitutional issues during his first term in parliament, and played a prominent role in drafting the Reform Party’s strategy for the 1995 Quebec referendum. A long-standing opponent of centralized federalism, he stood with Preston Manning in Montreal to introduce a twenty-point plan to “decentralize and modernize” Canada in the event of a “no” victory.[17] Harper later argued that the “no” side’s narrow plurality was a worst-case scenario, in that no-one had won a mandate for change.[18]”
The steps taken in writing the Clarity Act and the attempts to get Chretien to adopt it before the referendum are documented in the book, Think Big, by Preston Manning.
But, if you want to give Mr. Dion all the credit, go for it, I really don’t care.
By Herb on 06.30.08 8:55 am
Oh, Herb, admit it…you enjoy the show. Keep watching…tap, tap, tippity-tap…
Leasa a.k.a. Ginger Rogers
SLG
“Conservatives are bigots”
Now thats funny. Lets see, calling a group of people stereotyped names, that would make you a, whats the word, oh yeah, a bigot.
Too funny, the irony is great
Kerry
By Deb Prothero on 06.30.08 3:10 am,
I would like to know what churches are funded by government? This seems to be a myth among those who put down churches and religion because of personal bias against them.
Since most churches take a stance on political issues I think they should lose their tax exempt status and pay taxes on their income, like a lobbying company would do.
Garth,
Sorry to say but Sir John A. was never a dual citizen. He was a British subject all his life, born in Scotland, living in Canada. Canadian citizenship didn’t come around until 1947. Neither of the other two prime ministers mentioned, MacKenzie and Bowell, were dual citizen either, again before 1947 and born as British subjects. As to John Turner, I don’t know whether he retained his british citizenship when I got his canadian in 1947. All of that said it is wonderful to have the list of MP from many different countries, that doesn’t necessarily say that they are all dual citizens just that they were born somewhere other than Canada. I do think it is a reasonable question to ask whether the Queen’s prime minister should have dual citizenship with a with another country. I do think that there should be a different standard for the Primeminister and GG.
Since most churches take a stance on political issues I think they should lose their tax exempt status and pay taxes on their income, like a lobbying company would do.
By TS on 06.30.08 10:24 pm
What about the charity stuff they do?
Gord.
Garth,
Cant believe the NEP is still in our political vocabulary. The one scary thing about Alberta politics, is how one side the debate goes; people who oppose Conservative ideology are considered outcasts.
When Mr. Ignatieff visited Alberta on an academic request by Anne McClelland, it was reported that the Tory party tried to organise a hostile crowd to greet him. How hick and small-world is that. Pathetic. How is that people can be made to be so afraid of new ideas? Have they forgotten that democracy thrives on competing ideas….hmmmm
The Albertans I have met, tend to be extremely ignorant about the country outside of their province; generally, the Albertans I have met have think they are better then other Canadians and more principled.
Dion has shown that he has huge and mighty balls to go there and show down a hostile province.
PS,
Harper is the Nerdiest Prime Minister in Canadian history. Get some balls Harper.
Harper is the Nerdiest Prime Minister in Canadian history. Get some balls Harper.
By Daryn on 07.01.08 10:13 am
Well at least he doesn’t look as dorky as Dion does especially when he stands up during question period.
Dear Garth and fellow Proud Canadians.
I think this message will apeal to the more progressive minded ones:
Personally, I would sure like nothing more than to see the 39 Conservative seats in Ontario smashed out of existence. Its not like they are serving us well anyone. Moreover, I would rather have my dignity and pride than representation in Harper’s Cabinet.
Mr. Dion is going to go to Alberta, an extremely conservative and NEP-hostile province; to face down the years of fear mongering that Conservative politicans have kept alive and thrived off of. By the some of the comments posted on Garth’s site recently, one can sort of get a hint of what he will be up against.
So I say this. If Mr. Dion is treated badly by radical Albertans because he has demonstrated courage and principle; I think we here in Ontario should take note of that. For instance, if someone were to throw an egg at him or swear at him, perhaps we might return the favour to Harper when he comes to Southwestern Ontario.
Anyone agree? If so spread the word.
Daryn