Welcome to the second half of 2008. Hang on. It gets worse.
I have some ideas of where we’ll be soon, but first have a look at where we are. The economy of our friend and client is shredding, and we’re not immune.
• When Starbucks closes 600 stores and lays off 12,000 people, you know there’s something seriously wrong with consumerism.
• When monthly sales for Ford, Toyota and GM drop by 28%, 21% and 18%, you know heavy industry’s in big trouble.
• When Wall Street legend Lehman Brothers is shopping itself for pennies on the dollar, you know the banking industry is teetering.
• And when housing prices suffer the greatest annual decline since the Depression, you know the middle class is getting crunched.
As a direct result of all this, autoworkers in Canada – thousands of them – are losing their plants and their jobs. New home prices in a city in my riding have fallen $25,000 in the past ninety days. The tourism industry in Canada is being hit by a perfect storm, of higher operating costs, a crash in visitors and a too-high dollar. Cottage sales in toney Muskoka have plunged by 50% this summer, and prices are following suit. The US stock market has just had its worst month since the 1930s.
Is it any wonder the latest polling shows Canadians now put energy prices and the economy at the top of their list of worries? Granted, things are not as dire here as in the US – where thousands of families are losing their homes every day. In fact, mass foreclosures are unlikely because of our system. Far more certain is that everyone’s home will just lose value, bringing down the net worth of the middle class by 10%, or 15% or – depending on where you live – 30%. That’s bad news if you need the cash in your home to retire on, or if you’re a new homeowner with lots of debt and little equity. Soon you could have none.
Why is this happening?
The immediate disease is energy. That’s killed off the SUV and the pickup, idled factories, ambushed car companies and sucked off family cash flow that would have been spent at the mall instead of on gas. Thus, retailers are being nailed and more jobs lost – like those 12,000 people at Starbucks.
Beneath that is the collapse of real estate in the US, which is now happening in Canada – despite the anguished denials of the housing industry. That was created by absurdly low interest rates, easy credit, greedy owners, sellers, builders, agents and irresponsible bankers who created subprimes in the States and 40-year mortgages here.
Beneath that are federal government monetary and fiscal policies in both Canada and the US which have failed us. The US Fed should never have crashed rates to 1% following Nine Eleven, since that created an asset bubble which burst with predictable consequences. Today Washington is trying to export is orgiastic debt mess with a cheap dollar – which, in turn, is helping send oil prices to the moon, and killing off Canadian jobs.
In Canada the central bank slavishly followed the Fed, dropping mortgage rates to the point where we all lost our healthy fear of debt and house prices exceeded the ability of people to afford them. Then along came a federal government which thought a high dollar was a cool endorsement, and talked it up by 30% in less than a year. At the same time, it was spending more money than any other national government, and going from surplus to deficit territory in less than three years.
The combination was deadly, even before gas hit $1.40 a litre. We now have a deindustrializing ecoomy with an at-risk middle class, a housing market in trouble and a government which spent its cash and still can’t stop spending. For example, we are now shelling out more on the military than we did to win World War Two. It may be valid spending, but what are the consequences?
As a result, the Canadian middle-class is quite possibly screwed (if I can be prime ministerial in tone).
Household debt is at a record. The national savings rate is zero. Over 80% of family net worth is in real estate. Houses are coming down in value. Gasoline and energy costs are at a record high. Family income has stagnated. Income taxes have not come down one penny since Mr. Harper took office. (The GST’s been cut, but that matters less as consumer spending dries.) Jobs are being lost. The high dollar’s killed our competitive advantage. Wealth is polarizing, east to west.
This is bad for Canada, a disaster for Ontario and Quebec. With two-thirds of the Canadian population, accounting for three-quarters of the national tax base, the hit here will impact everyone. There’s no firewall around Alberta, no moat bordering Saskatchewan. We’re all going to taste this.
The next election, therefore, be it this fall or next, will be fought on the economy. To date, neither great national party has figured out a plan to rescue the middle class. Like it or not, that strategy will have to involve some stunning tax cuts, a lower-dollar policy, emergency energy policy, mortgage and banking reform, major corporate investment incentives and politicians who start telling citizens the truth.
This is going to get difficult. Dion’s on the right path combining economic, environmental, energy, corporate and social actions in one plan. He’s got the stones to tell people the old fixes no longer work. Dropping the sales tax or giving a tax credit for piano lessons won’t do anything about the giant sucking sound from China.
But, it is just a start. The real endangered species now is the middle class.
190 comments ↓
Garth, Dion has a plan.
Raise $15B in new revenue called a carbon tax. Since 40% of the CO2 comes from Alberta and Sask, take $6B from them and redistribute it to central Canada. Then, just to shut up them whiners, give them a $300 tax credit and tell them its good for them.
How do you think that would sell in your neck of the woods, Garth?
…and politicians who start telling citizens the truth.
posted by Garth Turner on 07.01.08 @ 11:59 pm |
Your forum would be a good place to start.
Sounds dismal for a Canada Day post Garth. Anything good happenin’?
Mr. Garth TurnerMP,
Thanks for the straight talk. Well said.
Dude, it’s called Peak Oil & it’s going to wipe out Ontario. Maybe you should build more than that 1 wind mill near Toronto.
…if things suck so bad in Ontario, better get on the next Greyhound to Saskatchewan, Alberta, or BC. Stop compaining and MOVE.
Garth, Dion has a plan.
Raise $15B in new revenue called a carbon tax. Since 40% of the CO2 comes from Alberta and Sask, take $6B from them and redistribute it to central Canada. Then, just to shut up them whiners, give them a $300 tax credit and tell them its good for them.
How do you think that would sell in your neck of the woods, Garth?
By Janice on 07.02.08 12:16 am
OR be a con bot (like that one up there) and do NOTHING.
Oh how I love it when people slam others, while offering UTTERLY NOTHING in return. It’s such a great way to get a point across.
Grow up janice. Your fearlful leader has failed on ALL fronts. If you have absolutely nothing to offer us, or anyone else, please silence those fingers.
I’ll take Dion over harpy any day of the week. Hell I might even settle for crazy ol jack over the jackASS we have in office now.
Things are looking bleak and I have no faith AT ALL in harper to get us out of this funk any time soon.
Bring on the election, either Canadians are going to smarten up and put the party that helped stimulate this economy to its highest point, or they are going to bring back the party that could be bringing US back into darkest days we have seen… without plan, with a clue. Hell not even one of those little floaty noodles.
PLEASE Canada, for the love of jebus get rid of this stupid government.
… and Stephane Dion is on his summer tour of Canada ’selling’ his Green Shift and last hope for Canadians to save the planet from our horrendous 2.3% contribution to total GHG global emissions..!!!!
Yes .. Canadians may be ready to accept a Liberal Carbon Tax that will further punish all those who heat their homes in the cold winter and add to the burden of economic armageddon that is looming according to Garth.
How noble Canadians can be to lead the world by sacrificing ourselves on the Altar of Kyoto … and even possibly sending Billion$$$$ to China for those cherished Carbon Credits that we know Dion is intent on purchasing so that we will fulfill our 2012 Kyoto targets … all because Liberal MP Rodriguez’ private member’s bill C-288 for Kyoto compliance is the law of the land.
So, Garth …. perhaps you can tell us where all of this Green Shift scheming fits in with your assessment of the world’s dire economic situation??? Perhaps Canadians should dutifully and blindly elect another Liberal government come the next election so that everything will come back to normal.
What’s your solution to the disaster that is looming over Canada … Carbon Tax or no Carbon Tax …???!!!!
Sociology professor Dion … is he the shining light of economic salvation for Canada?? …. tell us Garth … we await your word ……….
Garth, I am glad you are a Member of Parliament. I have no idea how to fix the economy. I do know that many of the problems you list are a result of the wars of aggression and the idiotic foreign policy of “our friend and client”.
I would not blame the Federal Government totally for “talking up” our dollar; the fall of the US dollar made the Canadian dollar rise.
I love your idea of telling Canadians the truth. I know that is difficult; today I used surface mail to send a letter to your leader; I copied you by email. I am hoping you and M. Dion will
read my letter and take steps to protect Canada. You have my best wishes and thanks. I tell my friends that you are the most available MP.
You should understand that an ice free arctic this summer will accelerate the climate instability. The pouring of CO2 into the air may be crime soon.
Me, I sold the tripple and bought a KLR. 70 mpg and pretty fun, it does go almost anywhere. Got a wood stove and am hunkering down in the bush out in BC and watching it all go down. I will not have as much fun as I thought I might watching the rich come down to my level. My idiot son just bought a house with a down of 30,000 on a 325,000 place with a 30 year term. If his job holds he’ll be OK but if not …..
By Janice on 07.02.08 12:16 am
How much do you think big oil is taking out of Alberta and moving down south every day???? Why is all our raw bitman being shipped to Bush’s refinery instead of being processed in Alberta? Why are all our pipelines heading to Bush country? Why did Slimy Eddie leave billions on the table for the oil companies and then give himself a 40% raise?
Dion’s plan will just take a bite out of all those billions leaving Alberta for Texas and those $$$$ will be returned to Canadians instead of making the USA richer.
So Janice, tell us the truth instead of the CON pap that you have been instructed to pass around.
You hit the nail on the head.
We are in for a rough ride, and Canadians seem to be oblivious to what is coming.
The focus on saving the earth will shift to saving our a#$ once people realize what has happened
“Then along came a federal government which thought a high dollar was a cool endorsement, and talked it up by 30% in less than a year.”
Well there’s the answer, lets just talk the dollar down. Maybe we can teach the dollar to do tricks too. Good thing you aren’t in government, you would have talked us deep into recession by now. Does it need to be doom and gloom every day here?
. . . autoworkers in Canada . . .
A day or so ago, I posted a link which suggested one reason that the Big Three may shut down altogether in Ont. and Detroit is simply to move production elsewhere, with much cheaper labor costs; it may or may not happen.
On a different subject, if the next few winters and springs turn out to be damp and a lot colder than normal, then will folk living on fixed incomes be able to afford high energy and food costs, especially if they still have mortgages and / or other debts to pay?
If they can’t, what then? Do Cdn. banks start foreclosing on Cdns., and putting them on the streets? Who wins in these situations?
People still have to eat, sleep, live and generally get by in life, all of which would happen if everyone played by the same rules, but that will never happen.
Life is just; it may not be fair, but it is just.
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This headline, along with one para. (no link) can go with the one that follows, because Putin has clearly stated that a US attack on Iran is taken as an attack on Russia.
If the US does attack and Russia enters the fray, then China may also team with Russia,as those three all have a vested interest in this area.
“The Coming Attack on Iran — The Perfect Storm of Madness
“In short, from the neo-con hawk perspective, now is the perfect time to launch a “pre-emptive” air-attack on Iran. This is the case even though Cheney / Bush cannot produce any conclusive evidence that Iran is working on military uses of nuclear energy; that may be in their long-range plan but, by and large, the U.S. is basing its antagonism on speculation and future fears. In short, there does not appear to be any kind of imminent Iranian threat to the U.S. or to other countries in the region. (Absent an imminent threat, an attack on a sovereign nation is regarded as illegal under international law, perhaps even a war crime.)”
Same as Iraq. Different place, different time but the same old, same old.
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Why is money flooding into China? They are still recovering from the massive ‘quake, so are not in very good shape.
Would the NWO be in the process of deliberately taking China down, and continuing to obstruct with this massive influx of loot, to throw their economic policies off the rails?
If China doesn’t protect itself, then they are going down, just as we are.
http://tinyurl.com/5463lr
As a result, the Canadian middle-class is quite possibly screwed (if I can be prime ministerial in tone).
LOL!!
(The GST’s been cut, but that matters less as consumer spending dries.)
Oh please, the GST was a Liberal promise to get rid of, no highhorse there. Campaign Left, Govern Right, same old story. There’s no firewall around anyone, unless your at the trough, so cut it out will you.
A little story – at the supermarket(s) first one was for ‘maintenance’ of the household. I squeaked by for $79 bucks, that’s a once a month shop. Waiting for my friend I shouted to all “Holy Crap, I just spent 79 bucks and I have NO GROCERIES’. Several people at the bean-counter began talking about that. They didn’t know what ‘the rest of their bill contained’ separate from maintenance/groceries. Next stop was for groceries. Well another $160.00 later I was wondering what more I could cut out of a healthy diet. That’s the reality, that’s the truth, so name it, write it, and get on with it.
Garth,
I hope there will be lower taxes for lower income, retirees and disabled.
O/T but, can you add a link to raise funds for an anger management course for Janice?
“The immediate disease is energy. That’s killed off the SUV and the pickup, idled factories, ambushed car companies and sucked off family cash flow that would have been spent at the mall instead of on gas. Thus, retailers are being nailed and more jobs lost – like those 12,000 people at Starbucks.”
And Stephane Dion wants to hit Ontario with a 20% “pollution” impact. Greg Weston had an article a week ago about the impact of Stephane Dion’s new Carbon tax. Since McGuinty hasn’t closed the coal-fired plants in Ontario, Ontarians will probably be hit with a 20% increase in energy. It will hit manufacturing in Ontario – either they will pass on the increase to consumers or it will make their products to expensive to sell abroad. Hence, closing their shops in Ontario and moving them to lower cost manufacturing environments – i.e. China.
And what does Stephen Harper want to do about it? Merge foreign banks. Acquiesce to a foreign country. Roll over. Sell out. Leave the country. Retire to Texas.
Leave behind a yammering pack of paid hacks whose last cheques may be uncashable.
Sad.
“Dropping the sales tax or giving a tax credit for piano lessons won’t do anything about the giant sucking sound from China.”
And a carbon tax won’t do anything for the environment because it won’t address the fact that China is opening one coal-fired power generator each and every day. For the 2% that is Canada’s contribution to worldwide environmental emmissions, it isn’t worth it to kill our economy and lifestyle…..back to the drawing board Mr. Dion.
How do you think that would sell in your neck of the woods, Garth?
By Janice on 07.02.08 12:16 am
Oilsands penalties dwarfed by library fines
“This is an industry that’s spewing 1.8 billion litres of toxic waste in tailings ponds every day, so looking at this and realizing the scale of it, it was really quite alarming,” said Gillian McEachern, a senior campaigner at ForestEthics, an environmental group that conducted the analysis.
“It really points to the need for better federal oversight over what’s happening, stronger regulations and good monitoring and enforcement of those regulations.”
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=fa55aa4f-efbd-4585-b9ba-d3fee843a060
Western birds are strange birds even when accompanied by eastern birds who change colour and go AWOL, such as Birdy [BOO!] Baird. Keep C.R.A.P.[PIN] in your own nest out there … and you’ll be riding the bomb down.
Devastating Mill Shutdowns: What Can Towns Like Mackenzie Do?
Thursday, June 12, 2008 04:03 AM
“Prince George, B.C. – Few towns can take the kind of shocks that Mackenzie, British Columbia, has been hit with over the last year. With the June 11th announcement from Canfor Corporation that its last mill will close its doors this month, every major mill in town has been shut down. Some people estimate that the unemployment rate in the town is approaching 80% or 90%. Clearly, this town of 4200 is in a crisis situation.
But the people are certainly resilient, and this was demonstrated on May 23 when over 1000 people attended a “Save Our Community Rally” in the town. But, as was pointed out by speaker after speaker at the rally, resilience and optimism are not enough. Without major governmental assistance, no town can take these kind of hits without being severely impacted. The equivalent situation down South would be 400,000 or 500,000 people suddenly losing their jobs in Vancouver, and one can only imagine what political and economic chaos would ensue if that happened.”
No mention ANYWHERE of A PLAN put forward by Flim-Flam Dim-Jim Flaherty, Monterey (Kaliforny here I come)Solberg or the PMSH. Like the environment, they have NO PLAN. STEVIE HARPER is NOT A LEADER!
posted by Garth Turner on 07.01.08 @ 11:59 pm |
The Conservatives should not have dropped the GST by 2%. They assumed people/consumers have money. They clearly don’t.
Harper should have reduced personal income taxes putting more money in the hands of consumers.
How can the Conservatives do that now when they have already reduced the GST consumption tax by over 25%. They have no where to go. Unfortunately they are taking us with them.
Why can’t those clowns anticipate where the the economy is going?
For example, we are now shelling out more on the military than we did to win World War Two. It may be valid spending, but what are the consequences?
Can we really afford to be in Afghanistan? Canadians are on both sides of the issue of whether it is valid being there, but maybe that isn’t the question anymore.
I see the attack machine is in full swing. Sure most have noted that con-trolls are usually the first to post. They must be sitting in front of their screens waiting for Garth’s next blog. How sad. Do they receive a commission for being the first to attack??
Good morning all, Garth, why don’t you go and have a chat with Belinda? I mean, she can tell you exactly what’s going on with heavy industry. Recently she went on a business trip for Magna to Haiti. I wonder if she is sourcing a cheaper place for magna to manufacture? Seems to be the trend today…taking advantage of the very poor who are willing to work for pennies a day.
Ask her…she is after all still an MP who works full time managing Magna.
If she would speak to you in a frank and open manner…I think the answer would be very interesting.
You have a wealth of insider knowledge right at your finger tips in your fellow MP.
Leasa
When the economy goes south will MPs rush to vote themselves a pay cut to match deflation? Yeah, didn’t think so.
Lower taxes do not help the retired or disabled, unless you have investments. As someone who lives on disability, has absolutely no taxable income, giving me more tax breaks don’t help, unless they are credits. Even the working poor tax credit doesn’t apply to me. I guess one doesn’t need help if they are just plan run of the mill poor and unable to work. How about a plan that would allow us to work to supplement our fixed income in a meaningful way, since it is being eroded in a meaningful with the current and pending inflation due to hit us.
So the middle class is going to know what it is like not to be able to afford their lifestyle and now we are supposed to be upset. Well welcome to the world of struggling, the world thousands and thousands of Canadians participate in on a daily basis, the ones on which the average middle and upper class Canadian turn their backs on without the slightest concern.
Funny how issues of poverty, HIV, drugs, and many other issues that effect our society are not thought about until they hit the middle class, then it’s time to start worrying.
Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone should have a decent standard of living, but let’s just not focus on one group of folks. Let’s include policies that focus on those with the most need.
Good for Dion for at least bringing out some poverty fighting policies, and I do hope, if elected, that he will implement them with the same fervor the Tony Blair’s Labor Party did, the same party after which he fashioned those policies.
You have a wealth of insider knowledge right at your finger tips in your fellow MP.
Leasa
By Leasa on 07.02.08 7:25 am
Good point, Leasa. Make that fellow MPs!
There is a wealth of knowledge and experience in the Liberal party, but they shouldn’t be expected to come up with ALL the answers or suggested solutions. Surely there are some people in the governing party with SOME knowledge and experience?
They did have Belinda, Garth and Casey, but unfortunately lost them. They do have Emerson, who seems to be a Liberal in Conservative clothing for his own benefit. Yes, they needed to get a former Liberal for one of the most important portfolios in government.
Where is the Conservative plan or suggested solutions for our current financial and environmental woes?
GET OFF THE DAMN OIL ADDICTION.
Start. Find the ways. Invent. Innovate. Take the wheels off this runaway truck called Big Oil.
They say necessity is the mother of invention. Well?
Garth:
You’re right, too much access to cheap debt had created a bubble of sorts in asset value….that said, why are the Liberals sitting idly by while Canada’s largest telecommunications carrier, BCE/Bell Canada is being turned from an investment grade credit issuer into a junk bond fiasco in the making. Their debt will go from $12 billion to $44 billion. Meanwhile their equity will go from $42 billion to $8 billion.
The interest require to service this mountain of debt will mean that BCE will not pay taxes for a VERY LONG TIME to come. This means Ottawa will forego $800 million a year in taxes.
Rather than simply being a lose lose proposition, this mess of a deal will be a lose lose lose proposition, since the consumer will be the one to fund this bankruptcuy in the making.
With an astronomically high cots of capital, this compant will have no incentive to expand into new services or lower their service costs. The absence of competitive price pressure will simply mean that Rogers and Telus can continue to charge Canadians some of the highest cell phone charges in the world.
What are the Liberals saying or doing about this?
By Lawrence on 06.29.08 9:50 pm
Garvin,
Either you are not very thorough or you are simply a liar. You wanted a direct quote from your previous post. You got it. See below along with my response shortly after I read it. Read my first response carefully. You will note that I did not overlook the filthy implication. Note that my first response was within days NOT ten weeks!
Your feeble excuse that no one else responded doesn’t hold water. After all, I don’t recall any reaction when Leasa accused me of beating my wife, either, an accusation that is equally reprehensible. Lack of reaction doesn’t make either your implication or Leasa’s accusation any less reprehensible. You make quite a pair, don’t you?.
In typical neo-con fashion you cleverly practice slander by insinuation rather than making a direct accusation. Then, since it is not a direct accusation, you deny, claiming a “paranoid delusion”. It doesn’t wash here. Comparison with Michael Jackson brings to mind two things, a great entertainer and a child molester. No one is going to believe that you are commenting on my dancing skills or lack thereof. In the minds of those reading this “More issues” can only mean one thing. Your insinuation is obvious, vicious, filthy and reprehensible.
See below for the direct quote from your posting of ten weeks back, along with my timely response and to complete the picture, a reprise of my recent posting.
EXHIBIT ONE Slander by Insinuation
Nothing wrong with Gord that 10 years of intensive psychotherapy couldn’t fix. The guy has more issues than Michael Jackson.
By Lawrence on 04.18.08 8:41 am
EXHIBIT TWO My First Response
Lawrence,
So Leasa recruited you to defend her and her echo, Catherine.
Judging by comments posted recently and not so recently on this blog, she is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, isn’t she? Weren’t you previously banned from this blog in the interests of common decency? Just who are you, really?, Halton John, Milton Man, HJ? Or are you just another of those who like to take a cue from Harper’s foulest tactics, to wit: “IF ALL ELSE FAILS CALL SOMEONE A CHILD MOLESTER. “.
By emulating your glorious leader in this way you are simply reminding readers that STEPHEN HARPER firmly established himself as Canada’s DIRTIEST POLITICIAN ever, when he accused Paul Martin of supporting child pornography.
By Gord on 04.21.08 6:37 pm
EXHIBIT THREE My Recent Response
By Lawrence on 06.29.08 1:50
Lawrence Garvin,
You, Lawrence Garvin, compared me to Michael Jackson.
Since I have never given any indication that I am an entertainer, which I am not, the intent of the implication was unmistakable. Anyone reading your reference to Michael Jackson is likely to understand that you are accusing me, by implication, of molesting children. You obviously wanted people to THINK I molested children whether it was true or not. The cowardly implication, while not direct and MAYBE just beyond libel, because of the way it was phrased, is absolutely despicable and perhaps explains why you are the most heavily censored person on this blog.
You, Lawrence Garvin, are the coward and you, owe ME a retraction and an apology!
CONCLUSION
You obviously believe that with fancy rhetoric and nice platitudes you can get away with anything. Not this time. Your hatred and viciousness is thinly disguised. In your rage you even descend into childish name calling. Is it you that has taught Leasa her scurrilous skills? You are even more devious, more vicious and more dishonest than even she is. With your superior command of English, you are even more dangerous. You evidently believe in the triumph of rhetoric over reason. You may not have slandered me directly, however, the intent is obvious and unmistakable. You little sojourn into brinkmanship is exposed. You bear watching. I am sure you will make many more such sojourns. Obviously and fortunately Garth is on to you. As always he is to be commended for his excellent job in balancing free speech with common decency. At the same time he lets enough of your postings through so that we can all see for ourselves what a scoundrel you really are.
They just don’t get it do they? We are being controlled by oil gouged by oil and the only way to stop it is NOT to use oil – alternatives.
It has to stop – you can’t keep saying now is not the right time. It will never be the right time if you let oil control your lives.
Garth you missed a couple of key ones.
The federal government deliberately understating inflation rates over the last decade to keep wages low and not have to increase federal assistence checks. Also the feds allowed almost all of our largest businesses to be bought out by foreign interests.
A few questions need to be asked before we can even begin to tackle the crises that is crashing around us.
First whose fault is it when banks allow someone to take out a mortgage like the one in your post last week that doesn’t meet the old standards for down payment and carrying costs used for generations up till recently?
Whose fault is it if a person cannot pay the bills on 7 maxed out credit cards, the person or the 6 companies that issued cards after they maxed the first one?
Todays closing of those Starbuck stores brings up the difference between todays companies and those a century ago. In the last depression Ford, Woolworth and Kressge among others had a personal inerest in keeping their businesses going while today most businesses are run by groups of investers with no idea of what the business does or needs to do to survive but are only interested in how many profts can be sucked out. So the question is, how do we deal with businesses that will shut down if profits drop let alone whether it is profitable now or in the future?
The U.S. failed to answer those questions and have created a total disaster. If we do figure out the answers we at least will have a direction to follow to head for an eventual recovery.
Good morning Garth,
Cottage sales in toney Muskoka have plunged by 50% this summer, and prices are following suit.
Gee, I feel like a Guru now. I have been saying that to effect for several months because I can tell just by reading ther real estate section and seeing the properties for sale week after week, month after month. Kind of like Tommy Lee Jones in MiB reading the tabloid for the real story (we sure as hell never get it from the MSM who, like Dim Jim see everything through rose coloured glasses and Lattes. Oops, seems those are soon to be gone as well.)
It will be getting far worse as the default on these overpriced ego driven monster homes start coming in like the U.S. market collapse. Most of these people are from the U.S. and Toronto to begin with.
As to gas prices, well the locals are all ready to open season on oil companies and politicians. The politcos have not ONE DAMN THING to stiffle the blatant greed allowed by the laws they pass to suck the arse their campaign contributors.
I think I will watch the movie ‘V is for Vendetta’ again tonight, because at least it has some action, which is more than Oddawahaha has done to help out the people who make this country actually run, not the backroom bastards who never will have enough. Well, we have had enough.
I can foresee the most aggressive G-8 conference in history hapopening here in 2010…if things last that long. Huntsville will beon the world’s stage and by then they will be needing a lot more security than there is available. Their fault…too bad.
I went through the devastation of the 1980’s, my parents through the Great Depression. This time people are going to start throwing the bastards from the high rise windows, not just watching them jump.
We have tried Feudalism, Communism, Nationalism, Fascism, and now the FINAL INSULT GLOBALISM! Time for real change, and it will not be a movement led by some clown backed by corrupt money. It will be a HAPPENING! A spontaneous social event without definition, just like a tsunami.
Keep up the great work garth. You make the MSM columnists look like the Whore Sheep they truly are, with a few exceptions.
Are we being gouged by oil, or by the government?
Review the gasoline prices of producing countries and compare them to Canada.
World Gasoline Prices
Countries which produce oil price their gasoline from Mexico’s 2.54 a gallon to Vewnezuela’s low at 0.25 per gallon.
Is Canada not a producing country? Aren’t we a world energy superpower as Harper stated?
“Canada is an emerging world energy superpower. We have an abundance of all forms of energy. We’re an exporter of virtually all forms of energy.”
So, why are Canadians getting screed?
The damage that Harper did by cutting the GST was profound for all Canadians…think? we were all living with it and for the most part doing well even to the point where Paul Martin had given a nice tax break to all Canadians. Where are we to-day? spending billions on un-tendered defence contracts, running money via the back door to Quebec and still renting tanks and aircraft, for what? Our little ode nest egg to which we all paid for is “GONZO” down the drain, and our economy is heading south, and down south things are bad ladies and gentlemen, real bad. North America is also being ravaged by fires, flood and severe storms never heard of before in the numbers reported and many are not even reported! So what can we do to try and save some hope for the future of children and grandchildren ? Vote CONservative to allow the Bully on the hill to spend even more money and dismantle years or strong hard fought battles for what we had just a few short years ago or vote for those who work for the values and principles we had become accustom to. The choice will soon be upon us once again. Unfortunately one side has decided to plan a full scale Republican Attack using every taxpayer dollar possible, and other hopes to touch voters hearts. Who will win, who knows? but we do know who could loose….our children and grandchildren….the question is will you tell them the truth should the Harper and his money attack machine win.
By Lana on 07.02.08 8:00 am
Good side step Lana! Really, that’s an award winner.
Fact is Belinda IS working for heavy industry…Magna. Fact is she has just gone to Haiti on company interests.
I don’t know of any CPC MPs who are working full time for themselves for a multi-billion dollar corp that they own.
I think if Garth asked her and she answered him honestly she could tell you why she is sourcing in Haiti. How much more of Magna is she going to move out of Canada to take advantage of the extremely poor who will work for pennies a day?
There are your answers to what is wrong with our economy. Ask her.
Leasa
GET OFF THE DAMN OIL ADDICTION.
They say necessity is the mother of invention. Well?
By ML on 07.02.08 8:10 am
SAGEADVICE!
Oil Crisis Worsening! What’s Next…
Sean Brodrick–Money & Markets 07-02-08
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/Issues.aspx?NewsletterEntryId=1926
Mr. Turner,
I’d like to expand upon the subject that Brent Fullard raised.
Clearly, the BCE deal is going to result in a financial calamity of incredible proportion, and the costs of this mess will be born by Canadian consumers and taxpayers.
This all stems from Harper and his Income Trust Betrayal.
Harper and Flaherty have willfully CAUSED massive tax leakage that we as Canadians will have to absorb. This is the very tax leakage that they claimed to be preventing in their now infamous “18 pages of blacked out proof”
Surely this massive amount of tax leakage caused by Harper is of concern to all Canadians.
Our Grandchildren will be paying for this Harper fraud.
Is there NOTHING that the official opposition can do to protect us from these weasels?
This is going to cost us ALL big time!
Why won’t someone step up and clearly state why our manufacturing sector is in such a state?
The problem is called “Free Trade”!!!
This farce has been shoved on to the Canadian and American middle class by politicians who cater to the gods of Big Business. The corporate CEO’s are still raking in huge salaries and bonus – worth decades of salaries for middle class. Sure, they were able to make big profits from moving production off shore, but now, it seems, they no longer have customers for their products, as fewer people can afford to spend.
This illusion of “globalization” is costing our economy billions. It is sucking up fossil fuels at an enormous rate – just to move raw materials and finished goods around the world. The environment is taking a major hit by these added consumption of fuels, and another major hit as production is being moved to areas where there are no environment laws and fewer emission controls.
Let’s add to that, the fact that workers in those countries are being exploited and paid almost slave wages.
Call me “protectionist”. No problem. It is about time, our “government” considered protecting their electorate; their jobs; our environment, our future. For the past couple of decades, all they have “protected” was corporate profits, and CEO salaries that have become in the tens of millions per year, plus bonus, while the middle class continues to fall into the lower echelons.
Fine, help build a better world through economic development in the 3rd world. However, don’t do it at the expense of Canadian lifestyles and values.
Even China makes you manufacture if you want to sell in their country. Similar in other countries. Why do we not do the same?
Every time I hear about “our(??!!)” government initiating “Free Trade Talks”, all I hear is another scam for sourcing cheap exploitable offshore labour to the benefit of company owners – and possibly the upper 10-15% of Canadian society.
It is time to look INTO the Canadian economy, and develop our own. It is well past the time we stopped sending our jobs, wealth, and future out of the country.
darn…..of course I meant screwed, not screed. If you add the Dubya to screed you get….screwed
We’re going to need more then a carbon shift to get out of this. Polls also put Obama as a better leader then any of ours. I’m sure part of that is just massive US media coverage. Still, I could use some hope and substance from an elected official. Obama is selling hope. Can some one in Canada sell hope and substance? I’m getting nervous.
By Catherine on 07.02.08 5:11 am
Catherine, you make a valid point concerning what might happen if Mr. Dion does introduce his carbon-tax.
However, what would you suggest as an appropriate response to climate change, and the need to reduce our CO2 emissions? The continued Con. response, based on deep rooted denial, of playing politics by trying to tell people what they want to hear while really doing nothing (the Baird plan), is not acceptable.
In Canada the central bank slavishly followed the Fed, dropping mortgage rates to the point where we all lost our healthy fear of debt and house prices exceeded the ability of people to afford them. – Garth
Great analysis of he current situation.
However, on this one point, hindight is wonderful and we have to be fair to the BoC. As we all know, if they had not followed the Fed as it cut interest rates, the spread in interest rates would have caused the Loonie to rise even faster than it did.
On this one, the BoC was caught between a rock and a hard place; either the asset bubble caused by low interest rates, or a screwed economy as a result of a rising dollar caused by higher interest rates. Not an easy choice for Mr. Dodge!
why is a high canadian dollar bad?
so our natural resources are more expensive to foreigners (the international corporations reap the benefits)?
because imported goods are cheaper?
because traveling abroad will be cheaper for canadians?
a high dollar should signal a strong economy.
but alas with nafta, globalism, and a corrupt government that may no longer be true. it is now a race to the bottom!
Dion’s plan will just take a bite out of all those billions leaving Alberta for Texas and those $$$$ will be returned to Canadians instead of making the USA richer.
By Emilie on 07.02.08 1:17 am
That is exactly the point. Alberta has lots. Lets just take some for the rest of us.
Alberta and Sask produce 40% of the nation’s CO2. They have about 12% of the population. When the carbon tax comes in it will be $6B out of that economy for central Canada. That is almost the total Sask government budgeted revenue. Its just a little “bite”.
So, $6B out and $300M back in liberal program spending. Anyone who thinks this will fly in the west had better grab the reins and hang on. Its going to be a rough ride.
And Barbie, if you think I need anger management, you aint seen nothin yet. We already lived through a liberal wealth redistribution plan that shut down the province. We were too passive at that time. It won’t happen again.
All the paper wealth of CEO’s and CFO’s and Stockholders is about to evapourate. Long overdue I think.
With it will go the real estate values that are totally indefensible.
Raw Capitalism is a FAILURE. Capitalism, real Capitalism, is a good policy when it is fairly regulated to prevent the narcisstic sociopaths from gouging the people.
Governments HAVE the RESPONSIBILITY and they have FAILED the people. It has become their religion. Simple as that.
People will either become truly informed and awake or be enslaved further. It is YOUR choice to make.
Government’s need to restrict interest rates for credit cards and mortgages as well.
Have a nice day everyone. Back later today.
darn…..of course I meant screwed, not screed. If you add the Dubya to screed you get….screwed
By Pecked to Death by Ducks on 07.02.08 9:50 am
SCREE’D–Hurled onto a mass of loose boulders, smaller pieces of rock and sediment at the bottom of a cliff or steep slope.
Either term would suffice Pecked to Death … I think the Canadian electorate has been hurled onto a pile of rocks by PMSH and his incompetents.
Can some one in Canada sell hope and substance? I’m getting nervous.
By Ripley on 07.02.08 9:55 am
Believe it or not, Ripley, I have a lot of faith in Canada and the Canadian people … We’ve responded and adapted to crises in the past and will do so again, when presented with A PLAN that meets the NEEDS of the majority. First of all, where the hell would we be, were it not for the efforts of The Hon. Garth Turner? He has had to ‘take’ unending S.H.I.T. from the C.R.A.P. trolls on his very own website which invites CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE.
He’s NUMBER ONE, Brent Fullard and Diane Francis share the NUMBER TWO SPOT.
There are MANY OTHERS to whom I feel grateful as well.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, and interested persons, FYI,
I posted this yesterday, and found a link to a video talk by the auther.
I had a chance to see it last night. It’s informative, even thought it’s
1hour:43min long.
http://fora.tv/2007/09/14/Could_Nuclear_Power_Save_the_Planet
She wrote this book and it’s really good. This is her site link,
http://www.cravenspowertosavetheworld.com/
This is a link to another good book,
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=1-0231137109-1
For more info on Canada’s world class…
http://www.aecl.ca/
http://www.cna.ca/
GARTH!!!! .. WOW!!! .. I didn’t know that Dion’s Green Shift scheme was so all inclusive .. “.. combining economic, environmental, energy, corporate and social actions in one plan.” !!!!
Perhaps Dion should step up soon and tell us himself how wonderful his Green Shift actually is. Reading the Green Shift again, I can see how it can influence all those aspects of our life … but now I see the light. Bravo Dion … now selling the Green Shift will be all the easier.
As for PM Harper doing “nothing”, I think that’s a tad misleading, because he has done “something” significant for Canada.
1. Overall taxes have been reduced as promised, and the next Budget in November may contain more relief if there is a sharp economic downturn. I also believe there should be a reduction in the government’s subsidies to organizations like the CBC for starters and cutbacks in unnecessary government programs.
2. PM Harper is quietly working behind the scenes to make Kyoto more effective by including the GHG emissions that are pouring out of China, India, Russia, others .. who are now exempt from GHG reductions. The total GHG emissions are rising spectacularly from these countries and China is now the #1 GHG polluter in the world. The planet does not sense a countries “per capita” emissions, only the total being spewed out. China and others must stop their polluting ways, and Harper is pushing for that to happen.
3. PM Harper does have a plan to reduce Canada’s GHGs, but not based on the Kyoto targets that the Chretien-Martin-Dion Liberals set for us under Kyoto. Harper has in effect repudiated the 1990 baseline level for 2012, because the previous Liberal government was purposely delinquent in holding down skyrocketing GHG levels. He has set a new target based on a 2006 baseline year going forward to 2020, which is more reasonable … because to follow the Kyoto targets would cripple the Canadian economy.
Of course we know that a Dion Liberal government would comply with Kyoto based on Liberal MP Rodriguez’ Kyoto Compliance Act C-288 being the law of the land. In his Green Plan, Dion acknowledges Canada cannot physically meet it’s 2012 Kyoto targets … and therefore a Dion Liberal government would resort to purchasing Billion$$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits from China, India, Russia … so that Canadians who failed to actually reduce their GHGs to the Kyoto targets could continue to pollute, but at a horrendous cost even in the face of economic difficulties.
So you see that PM Harper is doing something by holding back on Kyoto and trying to renegotiate the treaty so that it is more equitable and will relieve Canada of the horrendous GHG backlog permitted by past Liberal governments.
Obama is selling hope. Can some one in Canada sell hope and substance? I’m getting nervous.
By Ripley on 07.02.08 9:55 am
Thats a great point Ripley. If you want hope you’re reading the wrong blog. Garth gives us a daily diet of doom and gloom without any answers except more taxes.
No, if you want hope, you sure won’t find it in a liberal politician.
Janice: Love your Canadian spirit–share and share alike.
You don’t give a hoot about the environment, manufacturing losses or what the hell Belinda is doing.
Why don’t you focus on the current governments inaction when it comes to job losses, obsolete environmental policies and “The West at all costs” idealogy?
“we all lost our healthy fear of debt”
posted by Garth Turner on
Case in point, I’m presently doing some construction work for a young family in Calgary. There have been many extras added to the job that were not part of the original budget. The job now has an unlimited budget because as they have told me, “we’ll just amortise the costs over 20 years”. I have to ask myself, who wants to be in debt for 20 years? Your right Garth, we have lost our healthy fear of debt.
“Then along came a federal government which thought a high dollar was a cool endorsement, and talked it up by 30% in less than a year.”
posted by Garth Turner on
On this point I would have to respectfully disagree. I’m not so sure that Political parties have the ability to talk up their currency anylonger. I think the last time a President was able to do that might have been Reagan when the US went off the gold standard. The move to a globalised economy orchestrated by the World Bank and the IMF is a move based on the fact that all Central Banks must use the US dollar as their reserve currency instead of gold. In doing so the world economy is presently financed and backed by a currency that as far as I’m concerned has no real value. It’s an IOU without any collateral. A few years ago I got the feeling that countries preferred to see their respective exchange rates go down in a move to improve exports. In fact , it felt like everyone was in a race to get their currency down. A race to the bottom if you will.
So if indeed our Fin Min was able to talk up our loonie, well I guess I could see the humour misgivings in his financial follies.
ps: Looking forward to meeting Dion this Sat. at the stampede.
By boasting of “our strong dollar,” the minister of finance signalled to currency traders that the federal government supported and wanted a higher loonie. Immediately, it was bit higher. Cause and effect. Experienced finance ministers know not to do such a stupid thing. — Garth
Denmark has come out on top as the happiest country to live in. The U.S. came in 16th place and Canada placed ninth on the happiness scale.
Zimbabwe placed at the bottom of the list.
“The results clearly show that the happiest societies are those that allow people the freedom to choose how to live their lives,” University of Michigan political scientist Ronald Inglehart said in a press release.
So, $6B out and $300M back in liberal program spending. Anyone who thinks this will fly in the west had better grab the reins and hang on. Its going to be a rough ride.
And Barbie, if you think I need anger management, you aint seen nothin yet. We already lived through a liberal wealth redistribution plan that shut down the province. We were too passive at that time. It won’t happen again.
By Janice on 07.02.08 10:18 am
OK – all the arguements agains the Green shift are blurring for me – and I need to pick one.
1) I thought the complaint was that the producers were just going to tack the green tax onto their goods. If that’s the case, and the industry will be taxed $6 B – won’t they just pass that $6 B onto the consumer? So if costs go up $6B, and their charge go up $6B – how is $6B going to be “lost” by Sask and Alberta?
2) Let’s say the producers aren’t going to tack the $6B onto their price, and just take the hit – this hit would be after income taxes – so how does that cost the provincial governments, if there income lines aren’t dropping?
As far as I can see – there is no cost to the provincial income line from this green shift, so the provinces aren’t out. As it’s only a 2.6% increase to their bottom lines, I don’t see massive layoffs of people, so the people will be keeping thier jobs. As I understand, this $6B would reduce corporate earnings (where most are foreign owned – so the capital isn’t staying in the provinces in question) or shareholder earnings (see parathensis above). As the $6 billion is NOT coming out of the Provinces pockets, nor the population’s pockets – please explain how this is screwing the people of Alberta and Saskatchewan?
Also – as I asked a couple of days ago, it seems the Conservatives are leaning towards a Cap and Trade system – please explain to me the benefits of this system over the proposed Liberal system.
With an astronomically high cots of capital, this compant will have no incentive to expand into new services or lower their service costs. The absence of competitive price pressure will simply mean that Rogers and Telus can continue to charge Canadians some of the highest cell phone charges in the world.
What are the Liberals saying or doing about this?
By Brent Fullard on 07.02.08 8:35 am
Brent, I think you need to ask that question to the Alliance/Reform idiots who are the governing party & in the position to do something about it & not the Liberals.
This might not be a place to rant but every time I think of the damage this doctoral government is doing to Canada, I just need to vent a little.
I know a lot of people are saying, why did Stephane Dion support Harper in the controversial bills introduced in Parliament but in my view, the answer to that is crystal clear. For one thing, he & his party did not stand up & vote to support him. Abstaining was a show of defiance & not a vote of support so lets be clear about that. The controversial bills passed can be rescinded when we wave goodbye to Harper so that was never the problem.
Mr. Dion is no fool & it’s crystal clear that he knew what he was doing by waiting until Harper & his goons did enough damage to themselves so that Canadians had enough time to really see what kind of traitors this government has become. If you really look at the conniving that Harpoon did to have the government brought down, Mr Dion was justified & a lot smarter than Harper gave him credit for. Harper played him for a fool & he himself ends up being the greater fool. Had Mr.Dion fallen into the CPC’s traps that Harper has closely lain out in order to have an election, we would have probably had another 4 years for him & his bungling idiots to further damage Canada & that would be a disaster.
Brent, ask your questions to Stephen Harper but don’t expect any answers.
Cheers
Can some one in Canada sell hope and substance? I’m getting nervous.
By Ripley on 07.02.08 9:55 am
Why stop at hope Rip, why not a substancial plan?
The transportation system needs replacing.
Two years to gear up factories for subcompacts, some experts predict gas going from US $4/gal to $7 and the basic cost of living up another 20% by then.
Looks like these folks are still going the wrong way on a one way street.
http://poppavox.blogspot.com/
Only $50 mil to kick off a global completion starting in Canada.
—————-
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080702/auto_sales.html
AP
June car sales plummet; more declines expectedWednesday July 2, 12:17 am ET
George Pipas, Ford’s top sales analyst
“Our view is that gas prices aren’t likely to go down”
Both GM and Ford have announced plans for new subcompacts, but it will take at least two years to gear up factories for the new products.
By Bill-Muskoka on 07.02.08 10:19 am
‘
I second the opinion Bill.
We keep hearing that “big business demands that….” (fill in the blank). They repeatedly hold governments hostage saying they will take their bat-and-ball somewhere else if they do not get their way. Governments, wanting to be seen as creating jobs, give in over and over, until we have reached the present point where the profiteers have sucked the goodness out of the economy, and are now trying to repeat the story with developing economies.
Their divide-and-conquer strategy works particularly well, pitting province against province. This is particularly obvious in the present Alberta/Saskatechewan vs. the “rest of Canada” positions so loudly pontificated by several trolls here. The politics of fear do work.
In the early days of our national economy, unionism was NECESSARY to protect the working class from the robber barons. As out society matured, our governments became more supportive, with social programs acting as our safety net. So, we became less supportive of the union movement, and gave more and more control to the management corner offices. Now, our government has abandoned the common person, capitulating economic policy to the profiteers. So we are back to the “good old days” of the robber baron profiteers.
Canada needs an economic policy that recognises the majority of Canadians, our middle class, are in desperate straits. It is time to stop looking at “profits for profiteers”, and put the wealth of our country back into the hands of the majority.
So, since so many say we complain without solutions, let me suggest:
- SCRAP FREE TRADE in the present form and replace it with “Fair Trade”. If a country wants to sell here, they must pay their workers a fair competitive wage, adhere to modern environment standards, provide social programs that are similar to those in modernised economies.
- Create trade programs similar to the AutoPact for many things. If a foreign country wants to sell here, they must manufacture here. If not, put an import tax on their products.
- Invest in new “Green Technologies”. These are the opportunities of the future. The present over reliance on fossil fuels cannot continue. Someone must create the new way, so why not Canada?
- FORCE FOREIGN COMPANIES WHO WANT OUR RESOURCES to invest in infrastructure, training, and economy, and make them pay a fair market price for our resources. Foreign companies are not interested in Canada, and are adversarial by nature, and anyone thinking otherwise should go back to the cabbage patch.
- move strongly towards increased consumption tax and reduce income based taxes. We consume too much, which adds to our environmental and energy problems.
- educate our populace on the benefits of cooperative living rather than our present obsession with competition and dominance as the only “true religion”. There will always be winners, but perhaps “losers” is the wrong term as without them, there would be no winners… Perhaps we should recognise there are more “participants” than winners…
Yes, I recognise these as possibly retrogressive, but sometimes one has to admit a mistake, and start again. Certainly, there are lots of problems in my suggestions, but the details can be hammered out.
No, if you want hope, you sure won’t find it in a liberal politician.
By Janice on 07.02.08 10:43 am
So, when are YOU going to make a positive suggestion? When will YOU give the rest of us some “hope” by showing a better way.
All you do is bitch and complain, and that is counter-productive to hope.
You might say you are “hopeless”.
Listen on John Gormley to Dion’s plan for the west. When asked specifically whether the carbon tax taken out would be proportionately returned in tax cuts. Dion refused to answer until Gormley pushed him. Then Dion admitted it would not be proportionate. He admitted that the tax taken from Alberta and Sask would be for “all Canadians”.
NEP anyone?
http://www.newstalk650.com/shows/john-gormley/ondemand?page=1
New 2.3¢ carbon tax sends gas price up a dime in places
Many stations charge several times new levy
Chad Skelton, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, July 02, 2008
Gas shot to $1.52 a litre at several gas stations in Metro Vancouver Tuesday, the first day of B.C.’s new carbon tax.
According to information supplied by motorists at http://www.gasbuddy.com, most gas stations in Metro were selling regular unleaded gas for $1.52 a litre Tuesday.
That’s a full dime more than the $1.42 per litre quoted at several stations the day before and several times the 2.34-cent carbon tax levied by the B.C. government starting Tuesday.
.
Email to a friend
Printer friendly
Font:****Staff at several gas stations said they were extremely busy Monday evening as motorists tried to fill up before the tax kicked in. In contrast, they said business was quite slow Tuesday.
“It was a lot busier yesterday. We had lineups in the evening,” said Joe Seymour at the Lougheed SuperStop in Burnaby. “Today has been really slow.”
Seymour said gas at his station was $1.52 a litre Tuesday, compared to $1.464 Monday.
Mohammad Farah at the Marine Drive Gas Bar in Vancouver said business was “six, seven times normal” Monday evening and that things were quieter than normal Tuesday.
Farah said gas was selling at his station for $1.499 Tuesday compared to “$1.46 something” Monday.
Overall, according to gasbuddy.com, the average reported price for gas Tuesday was about $1.520 — four and a half cents higher than the average of $1.474 Monday.
~told ya so. rest of story here:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=65171e4c-4027-4ffb-ab69-37cbd7efe460
It could be worse…
If China and Japan who now own almost 50% of the US Treasury bonds demand a higher rate of interest, then things could get even nastier than they are now.
Gloom and doom is fine, and sometimes necessary. What I’m asking for is policy and charisma. This is something Obama has successfuly shown to Canadians that he has, while no Canadian leader has been able to do the same.
My comment remains. Dion’s Green Shift is good policy. It is needed now. But he must make the next major step which is to have the charisma to sway the voters to him. At the moment, most Canadian want to vote for the Democrates, and that is very illogical.
Dear Garth and fellow Proud Canadians.
Mr. Dion is going to go to Alberta, an extremely conservative and NEP-hostile province; to face down the years of fear mongering that Conservative politicans have kept alive and thrived off of. By the some of the comments posted on Garth’s site recently, one can sort of get a hint of what he will be up against.
So I say this. If Mr. Dion is treated badly by radical Albertans because he has demonstrated courage and principle; I think we here in Ontario should take note of that. For instance, if someone were to throw an egg at him or swear at him, perhaps we might return the favour to Harper when he comes to Southwestern Ontario.
Anyone agree? If so spread the word.
Daryn
Link added for reference;
The whole thing stinks.
By brain on 07.01.08 1:35 am
Hi Brain, you seem to have a good sense of deductive reasoning, I am having trouble with something Dion said the other day and no one has been able to “translate” it for me and I was wondering if you would give it a try, here is the phrase:
“I’m confident we will have significant reductions. I’m not telling you specific numbers because you would not trust me,”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Environment/2008/06/26/5992056-sun.html
My question is, should I still trust Dion since he is keeping his targets “secret”?
Thanks in advance
Gord.
A few short years ago our young people of the world (Canada included) hit the streets protesting G8 meetings on the new Global Economy, few people asked why? To-day we are seeing the effects of such a dramatic shift, look south and you will see that millions of their young are are saying NO! to conflicts and Wars and standing up for change. Here in Canada y’all are hard pressed to walk by many store fronts that do not have help wanted signs. Big business would like all people to work for less with little or no benefits until they drop leaving family members to provide for the partner who remains. The rich are indeed getting wealthier and boys are they ever, the middle class is taking it in the stomach in more ways than one as the Neo Con’s sell death (War on Terror) to millions of people who care not to read either history or the truth. Give your head a shake if y’all think Bin Laden was the first bad man on the face of earth, they have been here since the beginning of time and it was the working class who have fought the battles while the rich stayed home and sold the materials for millions to die on the battlefields….Hello? has the light come on yet? or yea and the sick and wounded are still waiting for assistance or have died long before their time!
Harry, you are a mouthpiece for the worse prime minister we have ever known. Harper is making a mockery of Canada around the world. Dion seeks to reverse the damage and move ahead. You should read The Green Shift Plan instead of just harassing Garth.
Perhaps Harry’s unable to know that there’s always a starting point, next steps and a bigger picture to take into mind. [Wouldn't it have been awful being the people who raised Harry? What an impatient baby.]
Common sense tells us that as Canadians have to get ourselves on the record and admired as having teeth and guts as far as polluters, or we’ll have no credibility or influence on world pollution that is already bringing us down.
In my opinion, I like knowing that polluters will pay, instead of waiting for them to be charged or fined. We’ll be compensated for what the polluters will try to charge us. And we get to have our say, on whether we want to buy their products or alternatives, or buy from a competitor’s company who found better ways to produce. I also see new business opportunity for greener solutions, and that’s a good outlook for new entrepreneurs.
Barb,
Harry is one of Harper’s bitches, forget him. Debate people worth talking to.
Daryn
Anyone agree? If so spread the word.
Daryn
By Daryn on 07.02.08 12:19 pm
The egg part I get, but what is swear at him? Dion thinks screw is vulgar, If someone says screw to Dion are you advocating someone say screw to Harper, tit for tat, kinda thing, that’s it, all out war now, eh. Somehow I don’t think Harper will give a shift.
Gord.
Harper prefers a cap-and-trade solution with no carbon tax.
Cap-and-trade works by forcing high emitters to pay money to low emitters.
The high emitter is Alberta. The low emitter is carbon-taxer Quebec.
Harper’s plan will transfer wealth from Alberta to Quebec.
JB
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 12:33 pm
Hey Barb, wanna give dear leader’s quote a try, I need a translation, and I included a link this time for context,
“I’m confident we will have significant reductions. I’m not telling you specific numbers because you would not trust me,”
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Environment/2008/06/26/5992056-sun.html
Gord.
Re: The Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act
The private members’ bill, introduced by Liberal MP Pablo Rodriguez, gives the government 60 days to prepare a climate plan with measures to ensure that Canada meet its obligations under the Kyoto treaty. These include a six per cent cut in greenhouse gas emissions from 1990 levels by 2012.
Opposition Leader Stéphane Dion said the Liberals will do all they can to make the government comply with the bill, but predicted real progress won’t be made without a change of government.
………………………………………………
Re: Green Shift
Page 16 … Canadians know Canada won’t meet its obligations under the first phase of
the Kyoto Protocol. However, the Kyoto Protocol is an ongoing international
effort, and we must build momentum now in order to close that gap in the
next phase of the agreement, after 2012. We believe that our target should
be to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 per cent below 1990 levels
by 2020. This should be increased to at least 25 per cent if other countries
take on comparable efforts. This is in line with what the science tells us we
need to do. We must achieve absolute greenhouse gas emissions reductions,
and we must begin today. Canada cannot solve climate change on its own.
Until we take serious action to reduce our own emissions, we will have little
credibility on the global stage to ensure other countries are doing their
part.
……………………………..
So, Garth … how do you reconcile the Liberal Kyoto compliance act with the statements in the Green Shift?
Will a Dion Liberal government comply with the Act … or does the above statement in the Green Shift absolve a Dion Liberal government from complying with Kyoto 100% …??!!!
We are waiting for your clarification, Garth … go ahead …..
Garth, Dion has a plan.
Raise $15B in new revenue called a carbon tax. Since 40% of the CO2 comes from Alberta and Sask, take $6B from them and redistribute it to central Canada. Then, just to shut up them whiners, give them a $300 tax credit and tell them its good for them.
How do you think that would sell in your neck of the woods, Garth?
By Janice on 07.02.08 12:16 am
Quite the lie, Janice. The 6 billion you say is coming out of Alta & Sask people is more like 5 Billion coming out of U.S. multinational oil & gas producer profits (4 years from now). These greedy U.S. multinationals will try to keep from losing such profits by passing them onto the consumer but… and this is where you pay real attention, Janice (or whatever your real name is). Such taxation can be prevented by one of two ways. True carbon sequestering, which would reduce half of the current tonnage in the atmosphere with a mere 2 bucks a barrel spent on oil, so pro carbon sequesterers such as Harper and Honest Ed claim and if thats not true, well, then, what are we supposed to say about liars? That they lie for our own best interests? Make them pay, Christ they can afford it.
The second thing that U.S. big oil & gas multinationals can do is simply eat the cost. They don’t have to pass it onto consumers, but lets face it. Their CEO’s and shareholders don’t give a shit about our environment, don’t care about the consumer, don’t care about the future lets just make $$$ today!
So there you have it, keep supporting oil burners and greeders over consumers and life that must bear the burden of climate change and a wrecked environment both macro & micro, knock yourself out, but at the end of the day people like yourself will be seen as nothing more than ignorant, naive, stupid, insanely partisan (same thing) or perhaps more precisely a paid propagandist cause there certainly is no shortage of those.
And it muses me as to why Garth keeps saying you’re no woman extrapolated, you use other identities. Sez loads, don’t it?
Nice spin, nice try, go sell your lies somewhere else.
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 12:33 pm
By Daryn on 07.02.08 12:41 pm
Re my postings:
By Harry S on 07.02.08 10:34 am
By Harry S on 07.02.08 12:53 pm
There is nothing to ‘debate’ since all I’m asking of our MP Garth is to reconcile the Rodriguez Liberal Kyoto compliance act with Dion’s Green Shift scheme.
Will or won’t a Dion Liberal government comply 100% with Kyoto as set out in bill C-288 and now the law of the land … and how do the statements in Dion’s Green Shift policy proposals reconcile with that act and Kyoto??
Simple questions that could be easily resolve by MP Garth … but he is silent and only you Liberal Death Star operatives come to his rescue with your diversionary tactics to defeat rational discussion. What do you Liberals have to hide from Canadians … what is Dion’s hidden agenda on Kyoto … Canadians want to know now before they vote ….!!!!
Leasa,
A quote from your link: “Kesselman said it seems people often behave irrationally when it comes to gas prices.” That describes perfectly what you are trying to achieve here.
And Leasa, of course you failed to put in your blip that B.C. should be differentiated from any other plans. Or that the B.C. government has introduced a new levy on all types of fossil fuels, but it returns all the revenue collected from the tax in the form of income and corporate tax cuts. So I’d suggest you sound like a fear-mongerer. Which is what you are here for, as you do every day.
Leasa, I’ll take this opportunity now to refer you to Dion’s plan, not B.C.’s plan, since Garth is a Federal MP in Ontario, and not a Provincial representative from British Columbia [just like to keep you straight, Leasa] and since we all know now that you are out to SMEAR-BY-ASSOCIATION in the minds of casual readers.
Since Dion’s essentially broadens the existing gasoline excise tax, there will be no hit at the pump until year five, and The Green Shift will compensate us to make any changes revenue neutral, as with the B.C. plan, but of course you left that out of your highlights as well.
You intentionally didn’t highlight all that, right Leasa?
As predicted, Harper considers Canadians to be dull-witted to fall for his smear campaigns. Harper’s people have been instructed to blur the lines and subtleties of progressive ideas, and taint the message in any way they can. Yet Harper has lied so many times, people have lost track. I suppose it’s no surprise that people like Leasa drool for him, she probably admires Harper’s ability to make a mockery of Canada.
Leasa is the one who started the whole Dion is not a loyal Canadian campaign here. Leasa should take a hard look at her own words.
Gord,
Some red neck hick commented on a previous blog that they were planning to tell Dion to “Fuck off” rather than “screw off”. Hmmmm.
I was just suggesting that we should do the same in Ontario, but in much greater numbers than Alberta could ever muster-to keep an even playing field. One should also note that creativity and the spread of ideas is also an advantage that comes with having greater numbers.
Somehow I think Harper’s little ego would crumble.
Hicks and red meat geeks be be warned.
Daryn
BY JANICE ON 07.02.08 10:18 AM
So Janice, per your statement, what province are you from, so we can look more closely at your most recent but undetailed allegation?
Hicks and red meat geeks be be warned.
I’m a treeuggin’ hick who never heard of a “red meat geek”. Do they bite the heads off live steers?
I think that all of you are missing what will eventually happen. The international tensions will precipitate an nuclear war triggered by Iran, Israel, Syria, Lebanon over the Palestinian problem. The USA will be drawn into it as it spreads. Saudi Arabia will take a major hit when they cut off the West. What happens depends on how China and Russia react and to a degree India and Pakistan.
Research has shown that major wars break out by accident not by plan of design. The elements for this are mostly in place. What happens to Canada’s economy and Canadians will be greatly affected by external events that we have next to no control over.
Regardless of whom is elected to the American Presidency, that person will have very serious challenges to control and reduce the out comes. In the wake of this conflict, all your political biases and religious rhetoric will only be after thoughts of little consequence and importance.
The real problems that will affect us are world wide over population, food supply/delivery, and access to potable water, all of which climate change will impact negatively.
I think human species has ignored the wake up calls, and will not react in time to minimize the impending mess.
The Green Shift if completely successful only affects 2% of the sources of GHGs, and like it or not those other nations in the developing world have no intention of changing their ways now that they have “tasted” the “good life”!
The real action is not here in Canada, and we are only an after thought on the world scene. Reality is not always recognized!
“only you Liberal Death Star operatives come to his rescue with your diversionary tactics to defeat rational discussion”
By HARRY S 07.02.08 1:22 PM
Harry,
We have to stop meeting like this. Do you remember that film we did together.. how successful it became. Anyway, I found a copy of it, and I thought everyone might like to see us together, years ago.
You really took your role to heart!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXk4P12p1tU&feature=related
But I hope you get your answer when the election comes.
Leasa at 11 something
The story you quoted about the increase in gas prices in BC, tells me that it is the OIL COMPANIES who are profiting AGAIN by the 4.6 cent increase. If the garages send the 2.3 cents to the provincial government, where is the rest going to? It wouldn’t be anyone but the oil companies would it?
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 1:28 pm
Oh Barbie…you deliberately once again missed the point. Now, read slowly this time, sound it out.
Dion may not actually tax gas, but when he taxes the oil companies…who do you think is going to pay? Where do you think they’ll pay it? The example was; Gordie put a 2.4 cent carbon tax on gas…in some areas gas went up 10 cents a liter, most areas it was 6 cents. Get it? That is just a small taste of what corporations will do with Dion’s tax shaft plan. You cannot pretend that is not a factor to be considered. Oh, yeah, I guess you can.
Oh, unless you just want to admit to lying now; show me an example where I said Dion is not loyal to Canada. Of course I could ask the real question again if you’d like.
Get it? Got it? Good.
Leasa
Hicks and red meat geeks be be warned.
Daryn
By Daryn on 07.02.08 1:36 pm
Oh, Oh, he’s going after the meat eaters now. You Daryn, are one wild and crazy guy.
Gord.
Gord.
Mr Turner,
This one is yours. You said “Is it any wonder the latest polling shows Canadians now put energy prices and the economy at the top of their list of worries?” So why has the Liberal Party of Canada become so myopically obsessed with the carbon tax, which will compound these problems ten fold. This is all pretty “rich” coming from a guy who supports a policy that could hasten the economic disaster. Besides, you are vastly overstating the case. The US has yet to slip into a recession. There has not even been one quarter of negative GDP in the US, let alone the two required for the definition of a recession. This is a 70’s style slowdown, not 1929 when the Dow all but disappeared. You sir are feeding on fear needlessly. Both the NP and G & M have been carrying articles in their financial sections that paint a very different picture than you. You just want a bad economy to help you get re-elected with a Liberal Govt. It wont happen though. Why not look at the positives a bit. At least it will balance your chicken little rants.
Well, let’s wait and see. As for the Green Shift, it has a serious tax-cut component. I suggest you read the plan to understand it. — Garth
What are the Liberals saying or doing about this?
By Brent Fullard on 07.02.08 8:35 am
Excellent points. I can’t speak on behalf of the Libs but I’m certainly no shortage with suggestions.
They should listen to you. I can’t always agree with you but I usually do and with BCE, you are “on the money”.
The only way I can see what can be done for the Libs at this point (other than take the Harper government down, win an election and set a new course for policies) is to prepare for a change in government from opposition to goverance.
In some ways, they already have. Dions strategy with Green Shifting (wups, can’t use that expression, I might get sued) er, I mean, a producer tax on C02 emmissions is in every way, setting the mandate. Note that opposition is, as a rule, reactionary. But as the governing party, everything changes as the governing party sets the mandate and tone.
This Liberal government is behaving in a way that all governments waiting in the wings to govern, should. They are setting the tone now, no longer reactionary but carving out their own agenda… but this tone truly comes out best during election campaigns as after all, there is a sequence to it. Rebuild the party with the key players, candidates and organizers it takes. Debate the issues. Form policy and platform. Ready the party for an election and most importantly, governance. Have bills ready to introduce in framework or in general that are in every way flexible/adaptable to change and newer, more accurate information and perhaps most importantly, have the area’s picked out where committee studies are most needed.
And as you might have guessed, Brent, we need one with the banking sector precisely to address what is happening with BCE. We need a committee that looks at M & A’s, not a Harper appointed 5 director board that is full of corporate lobbyists with every interest to sell Canada out for self interests.
We need a committee to look at intergovernmental affairs, specifically with the re-allocation of FN powers. Another committee needs to be done on the environment and the impact of climate change on the north. We need a committee on military spending in times of peace/war/peacekeeping. We need a committee on the NAU, SPP, NAFTA/Free trade and trade agreements with all nations of all governmental stripes. We need a committee on manufacturing to look into job protection. National energy policies, Oceans and fisheries (such failure in this department alone by Harper and at such a crucial time)… We need and I repeat, A NATIONAL FOOD POLICY! Currently, we have 2.5 million diabetics with preventable diseases skyrocketing and all Two Tier can do is introduce ugly bills such as Bill C-51 which paves the way to HMO drug advertizing in Canadian media, extends Health ministerial powers to halt clinical trials at any time and turns nutritional suppliments into drugs.
http://www.carolynbennett.ca/whatsNewPosting.cfm?ID=1817
Two tiers big claim to fame? Take the needles and professionals away from junkies. But 2.5 million Canadian insulin junkies are just fine. One in 5 natives has diabetes, Brent. 1 in 5. Is it environmental/food? Blood types come into play, genetics? Its a combination of everything but most specifically, its environmental and its our food sources, processed foods and mass food crops that lack the nutrients they used to have. We can buy oranges with no Vitamin C now. It comes down to information, information that we can’t make money on but can make us healthy!!! Simple education. We need new standards and regs on foods from everything to the outright ban of trans fats, to bans on certain preservatives and dyes, to tougher screening with meats in the area of “superbug contaminants”, to tougher labelling, the works.
Readers, you decide. Do you want Two tier Tony Clements dictating policy going nowhere except to hand it all to greedy CEO’s and HMO’s, the usual Harper agenda? Or do you want a Carolyn Bennet, a 20 year family doctor with a major background on nutrition who knows through practice what public service truly means.
We spend, by the way, a full third if not more (38% two years ago moving incrementally to just over 40% 3 years from now is what I recall with true tax dollars spent on healthcare by the feds and this does not include provincial spending on healthcare) of every federal tax dollar on medicare alone. This issue alone can make or break us both in terms of Canadian health in general and in taxation/spending.
Again, who do you want in this portfolio? Two tier? Or Caroyln Bennet (Dion couldn’t have picked a better shadow cabinet minister for minister of health, she’s probably one of the top 100 picks from the entire nation, the best of the best for the job, never mind a top pick in a political party). Its time we all started to look at how the Libs stack up against the Cons with cabinet roles, with candidates from all parties.
This area alone is just one example of where true talent in the Liberal party is waiting in the wings and good decent people without a political stripe are in the loop. In health care alone, we’ve got serious issues that are being outright neglected, healthcare costs are soaring, Canadians have become fatter and more diseased despite what Harper propagandists like two tier has to say and in this area alone Brent, the Liberals most definitely have a plan and that plan will save a great deal of lives and yes, major money.
Healthy Canadians mean a healthy economy, its virutally that simple.
We need to prioritize the committee’s from most to least in what is most dramatically effecting Canadians and the issues in my opinion are intertwined with the environment, energy, food/health and government spending/taxation and major changes, fundamental changes have to occur. The theme with the Harper government has been bills pushed without looking at past and present committee input, science or whats best for Canadians as a whole. Virtually every bill has been stacked with corporate interests coming first and as we all know, greed and market forces should not dictate the laws of the land.
We’re better than this, Canadians deserve better than this and y’know, there might even be a defense Harper can muster if he looked after his own Can corps, y’know, jobs first and all that yarn but the so called former U.S. multinational lobbyist never gave up his old job. The only thing that isn’t made in the USA with Harper is his birth certificate (ok, maybe his SIN and DL).
Everywhere I look, I see failed files in cabinet. Everywhere, Brent. I guess my point is that this nations problems are broad and sweeping and there is no magic bullet, no one policy that will fix it. It’ll take dozens of policies to do it and we can look at it from a left/right persective or from a functional/disfunctional one. I really don’t care what lands left or right so long as its functional and to me, its always been the center when it comes to money, that place left and right fails to mention exists… and from what I’ve seen this year more than any other (finally) is an opposition party that has shown major signs of being ready to run this nation the way Canadians deserve… balance.
I guess for some it will come down to faith. In some areas, like business and the economy (thank God for the Garth Turners of the world) we’ll need more than less because it will take the efforts of 10 or more ministers and thousands of supporters with good will/intentions at heart that are directly involved. In other areas such as health, we’ll need far less faith than one thinks and with the big picture in mind, with the overall, I have faith in Ontarians making the right choices come election day.
I don’t know if this is relevant or not. I suppose our consumerism is higher when we throw out most of the stuff that we buy. Buying stuff for the sake of having stuff. It makes me wonder we throw so many potentially recyclable things into our landfills still (Halifax only recycles #1 + #2’s because they get more $$$).
Cut down on waste- economy slows and then we have more resources.
Buy and waste- price of oil remains high, resources deplete quickly, economy still sucks.
Perhaps we need to find a way to be happy with a sustainable economy NOW and not worry so much about growth over last year… just a thought
James Carvill’s sign in Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign office was “Its the economy, stupid.”
Maybe you should get one of those for the Liberal’s campaign office.
BY CHARLES OXLEY ON 07.01.08 5:30 PM
Hi Charles, you were asking me where we are, but, uh oh, I was hoping you could tell me
There’s many contributing factors. Good thing the tipping point of group knowledge is getting greater, like a big train wreck we could avoid. Most people will react by instinct, like they already are, so that helps. But it’s great that everyday people like me are taking the time to at least TRY to understand. I’m like the canary in the coal mine – if someone like me is paying more attention now, then I know lots of people are, because our common sense and instincts are telling us to figure it out, and quickly.
If Harper’s little ruses work, and he gets in again, that’s enough time for him to sell us out completely.
All countries are participants in the economic and climate issues. The recent cabal of world leaders like Bush have done nothing but harm to us all – they even brought us Harper, and you can put 2+2 together from JOHN Z’s remarks yesterday to figure out how that happened.
We need a real PM, not a corporate lobbyist.
I see Dion standing up for Canadian values first and foremost, and he’ll stand against the larger influences instead of being their lap dog. We are being fleeced by Harper, and at the same time we face enormous challenges, no thanks to him, and a long calamity, but with a spent purse. Much of this is orchestrated, and we have to face down predators when we see them.
We have to deal with our problems, as Garth notes, and take care of our own noses first. The best thing people can do for themselves is to try to grasp the enormity of the challenges of our current situation. Beginning with the economy makes sense. So we can do that by getting out of Harper’s grasp, because Harper’s idea of promoting Canada.. is to give us away as shark food.
Get it? Got it? Good.
Leasa
By Leasa on 07.02.08 2:19
Haven’t heard that one in a while. You have to be a Danny Kaye fan to appreciate it, eh Black Fox.
Well, let’s wait and see. As for the Green Shift, it has a serious tax-cut component. I suggest you read the plan to understand it. — Garth
Pppsstt, Garth … I hear that in the next Conservative Budget, that Flaherty will be announcing more tax cuts which would equal and undermine Dion’s Green Shift tax cuts …!!!
Watcha gonna do then … try to ’sell’ Canadians on the Carbon Tax portion of Dion’s Green Shift going into an election ..??!!!
BY GORD G. ON 07.02.08 12:50 PM
Gord, I read that before you and I took it at what it is. He was talking to the Sun newspaper, a rag I stopped buying 20 years ago.
Do you have some sort of implication.
By Leasa on 07.02.08 2:19 pm
From what I have noticed in the last few years of paying attention, I don’t know about elsewhere but gas in the lower mainland is always more expensive in the morning then in the afternoon. It is usually about 3 cents difference in price between my commute in and my commute out of work. That may have some bareing on the fact that gas is being quoted as going up a dime when the B.C. carbon tax kicked in. GST is collected on top of the B.C. carbon tax. So the 2.4 cents per litre +5%. I read how some people say we should suck it up as it is only a mere $1.20 on 50 litres. At what point does all this taxation break the camels back and the camel stops working for the government anymore?
“These greedy U.S. multinationals will try to keep from losing such profits by passing them onto the consumer but…”By brain on 07.02.08 1:20 pm
Hey Brian and others who like to throw around the term “Big Oil”. The major interest in the current major oil sands project is not US mutlinationals but Canadian Oil Sands Trust ( an income trust- which Garth was lobbying for) and Suncor. Both are Canadian controlled companies.Also the next largest project is being developed by Canadian Natural Resources. Bet you own some of these Canadian company shares either in a mutual fund or pension plan. BTW the new companies that are either trying or have bought into oilsands projects are mostly national oil companies such as the French (Total) and the Norwegians (Statoil)
I present a simple question on the forum and what do the Liberal trools do?? They attemt to trash the messenger..!!!
Plain and simple:
1. We have a Liberal law on the books that proclaims Canada must comply with Kyoto 100%.
2. That Kyoto compliance law requires that Canada achieve it’s 2012 GHG targets.
3. We are currently 30% above those Kyoto targets.
4. In Dion’s Green Shift it is stated: “Canadians know Canada won’t meet its obligations under the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol.”
5. It is further stated: “We believe that our target should be to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 per cent below 1990 level by 2020.”
6. Dion fails to indicate in his Green Shift what his government’s 2012 GHG target would be, but he says his government would comply with the Rodriguez Liberal Kyoto compliance act.
Shall we now conclude that Dion accepts the reality that Canada cannot possibly meet it’s 2012 Kyoto targets by physically reducing the current 30% GHG excess wholly created by past Liberal governments?
Yet Dion states he will comply with the Rodriguez Kyoto compliance law .. which can only mean that Dion intends to purchase Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits to mitigate whatever GHGs remain over the Kyoto 2012 target.
Where will a Dion Liberal government obtain the money for Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits?? Should we reasonably assume that he intends to use the Carbon Tax money he intends to collect from Canadians under his Green Shift for the purchase of Chinese Carbon Credits??
I hope I have presented a fair and unbiased assessment of Dion’s Green Shift and the Kyoto compliance act law, and how a Dion Liberal government would execute their hidden agenda.
By Gord G. on 07.02.08 12:29 pm
A backgrounder helps, Gord G, thanks for the info. Now that I know the media outlet (it could be the Israeli Star or the Venezualian Gazette, these things make a difference, lol) and the the name of the journalist and the media’s previous bias and leanings, what can I say, its a help.
I’d say you are referring to this clip in general…
“In a 75-minute session with Sun Media’s editorial board in Toronto, Dion predicted his proposed carbon tax will trigger large reductions by 2012, building momentum that he hopes will reach a 20% drop by 2020. But he can’t forecast how fast emissions will decrease in the short term.
“I’m confident we will have significant reductions. I’m not telling you specific numbers because you would not trust me,” he said.
Two questions arise. Firstly, is it wise to hang on someones every word? Secondly, is this a paraphrase or an actual quote? There are quotations so one can only blindly assume this is a word for word quote but even still, in a 75 minute interview with Dion, can a direct quote like this be taken out of context?
Absolutely, it can. It can be taken out of context not just by you or any other reader but by myself and then passed down the line.
Just reading what Dion was assumed to be “quoted to have said”, Dion is confident that a tax on producers of atmospheric C02 emissions will lead to a reduction in C02 emissions. In fact, he’s boldly stating that there will be a 20% drop in C02 emmissions by 2020.
Why is that? Why is he so confident in a 20% reduction by 2020?
The answer lies with the very heart of the Liberal Green plan itself. In the first year, there will be a tax of 10 dollars to a tonne of C02. In the second, it goes to $20. In the third, it goes to $30. In the fourth, it goes to $40 dollars a tonne and flatlines from there… potentially.
The question all readers should be asking is, what is the cost of reducing C02 emissions by half per barrel of oil at the tarsands where an estimated 1.7 million BOE per day will be produced? (keep in mind that currently, the world consumes 87 BOE per day so this isn’t a minor blip on the world’s production of oil or CO2 emissions relating to refining oil from the tarsands specifically… or should I call it “oilsands” the way some historically prefer).
The answer, Gord G, is simple. If C02 emissions can be cleaned up to half or less than half through C02 sequestering by a mere expenditure of 2 bucks per barrel or less and taxation per tonne of C02 is priced at $40 dollars per tonne or even higher, will big oil/small oil corps in the tar/oil sands be able to save money by lowing their own taxation through voluntarily cleaning up their act?
YOU BET THEY WILL. And where money is saved, investors profit.
The Green plan by the way, goes to $50 dollars a tonne straight off the hop, penalizing oil companies caught with their pants down. The Dion plan is superior the sense that oil companies know whats coming and have the time to invest in the best tech that can give them the most bang for their buck in terms of sequestering C02. The only way the Dion plan would be inferior to the Green’s plan is with the possibility that the Harpers and Honest Ed’s of the world are liars, telling the public that C02 sequestering is viable and exists when in fact, it doesn’t, or the outright reality that the best thing for the environment is higher energy prices that forces the consumer to consume less and forces business to be far more innovative than they have been with C02 emmissions.
Now…
As far as Dion saying “I’d give you numbers but you wouldn’t trust me”, is also easily explained. The best Dion can do is estimate numbers. There is no historical record to go by in terms of seeing how oil companies will respond to a carbon tax. They might just keep emitting C02 without making any kind of plan to sequester at all, they have that right. It is not a lock for oil & gas CEO’s to give a shit about the environment even if it means the big possibility of saving them money in the future. They might bet, for an example on a do nothing Harper government to continue to do nothing and continue to rule or become re-elected at a later date. Again, their talk of C02 sequestering could be all lies and what this would mean is that if either case came to pass, that C02 emissions would only increase.
As you keep reading, Gord G, note that the only way to reduce C02 emissions is with hard caps and that literally means reducing production in the near term so you think about that one long and hard.
And you think about the position oil companies are faced with. They can either continue to deny that climate change is man made, is happening and acclerating, that the effects won’t be detrimental to human life and all life on earth in general (as you have in the past) and wage propanganistic wars on any hard caps or GHG taxes or oil & gas corps can continue to pollute and pay, or they can just clean up their act.
In case you missed it, Doing nothing on C02/GHG’s is no longer an option. Silly arguements like Canada is only responsible for 2% of C02 emmissions (its really closer to 3% by the way, and Canadians are surely responsible for closer to 6 – 7% in terms of true C02/GHG pollution/exports combined) speak nothing in terms of what Canada’s role should be globally concerning a model exemplar for the world to follow.
We aren’t a part of Europe where nations can cap and trade as a block. We can’t buddy up with a do nothing Bush govy that has snubbed their nose at any kind of effort to reduce C02/GHG’s. Our problem is unique but not so unique as China faces it too, and we need a model that will work, period so you decide.
- Hard caps and reduced production in the immediate
- Do nothing and face the shame and consequences of man made climate change that is in all technical terms (besides spin/propaganda/lies) real and apocalyptic
- Tax C02/GHG producers incrementally, giving them the incentive and time to simply clean up their act.
I’ll pick the last of the three myself and any person who serves people/life beyond themselves would do the same.
And one last thought, Gord G.
Take a look at that article one more time. There are quotes that you could have fixated on, you had so many other opportunities. A clip:
“We know that they will pass on part of their costs to their consumers because they cannot eliminate the emissions overnight, with all the goodwill of the world. We know that,” he said.
Big polluting oil companies would pay a hefty price for emissions, but the Liberal carbon tax plan projects any costs passed on to consumers at the pump would be minimal as global pressures would keep prices from Canadian companies competitive.
Dion, who flatly rejected the carbon tax idea in the past, said his thinking has evolved with mounting evidence from economists and environmentalists. Asked why Canadians should believe he will now keep his word to ensure the carbon tax is revenue-neutral, Dion said he will always act in the best interests of Canada.
“Many people change their mind. It’s incredible the number of people who change their mind,” he said.
Calling his broader climate change policy a “work-in-progress,” Dion said he will listen to Canadians to fine-tune the plan. But as his caucus MPs fan out across the country to hit the summer barbecue circuit, he’s confident their constituents will embrace the proposed green revolution.
“Canadians will not reject the plan. Canadians will debate it, I am confident that they will support it and will go with it because it’s good policy for the country,” he said.
Keeping most campaign ideas under his hat, Dion revealed his platform for the next election will include detailed plans to balance the books, address the manufacturing slump, tackle the looming “catastrophe” of diabetes and curb the human health hazards of a sick environment.
“Many of the diseases and illnesses we have in this country are coming from a polluting environment, all the toxins that are coming in our body,” Dion said. “Our environmental platform will make this link.”
In short, Gord G, how could you have missed Dions final thoughts? Climate change deniers/Harperite taxation doomsayers/Green plan critics (like Janice) rail on about “just how MUCH” it will cost the west… without ever talking about “just how much” it will cost U.S. multinational oil companies or the consumers they pass their “expenses” onto, while completely and utterly dismissing the sheer reality of what spend with a healthcare system that is buckling at its knees from Canadians who are now 6.75% diabetic (2007 stats), skyrocketing with obsesity and being overweight and in general with preventable diseases steming from shit foods, more unhealthy than Canadians have ever been before.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/2008/cphorsphc-respcacsp/cphorsphc-respcacsp06e-eng.php
(keep in mind as you search through the references of the report that quite a few are dated, at least 5 years old or more)
Again, we need a national food program, the Libs have got that plan in general, its extremely strong from what I have seen of it and the savings in health care costs, with lives, with quality of life… people, if you think we are being overtaxed with a Green plan in any way, you can start adding zero’s to that number you have in mind when it comes to savings the plan the Liberals have for healthcare with increased health for Canadians over time.
By Garth
“…..orgiastic debt mess…..”
I like that, very appropriate.
Have people noticed that whenever Harper pulls a Bush the Conbot propaganda becomes almost frenzied?
Just an observation.
Some parts of England are suffering over this whole subprime meltdown. Seems like mostly the middle class. There have been some good articles in U.K. online papers.
I really don’t think we’re getting the ‘full’ story from the south of us.
By tom from ns on 07.02.08 3:00 pm
Hi Tom from beautiful Nova Scotia! I wish I could get the time to visit your province some day. I’ve sent my daughter there on vacation, my mom has been there, many of my dutch relatives and right after my daughter’s wedding in 10 days I have another set of dutch relatives heading your way. The pictures and video I have seen are absolutely beautiful. …some day when I have the time…(sigh)
Anyway, you are right. Down to earth basic people, the 80% of us who don’t watch politics really don’t give two thoughts to environmental issues. Just look at what’s on store shelves. Just last week I was in a Canadian Tire store and there before my eyes was a (get this) battery powered duster that goes round n round. They were about half sold for $19.99. My question is…how lazy can people get? In two or three generations people will be reduced to jelly-like blobs because we will not use any muscle power what so ever. Everything is instant this and instant that. Even the effort of ripping up lettuce is too much for people. We’d rather eat the metallic tasting gunk out of a bag than lift a knife. LOL Then there are those swiffers. Holy crap…talk about filling up a land fill or two!!! And expensive! Today’s babies have their little bottoms shoved in plastic 24/7 and then mom wonders why baby is screaming with a diaper rash. Then we can talk about packaging. How much printed cardboard and plastic does it take to hold a pen or screwdriver?
We all know that our cars are the most fuel efficient at 90 km per hour…so why are people still doing 100 in an 80 or 130 in a 100? Guess they have excess gas they just want to get rid of.
What we do to our water and land is what drives me insane…and the waste is astounding.
Leasa
To those non believers in Garth’s words…. CNN has just reported yet another bad day and telling it’s audience to stand by for even more bad news to-morrow…. Does Flaherty care NO! Does Haprer care NO! do other CONservatives care who knows they are not allowed to speak…and dats sad politics ladies and gentlemen. Oh even Toyota (12%0 and Honda (.2%) sales are down.
“By boasting of “our strong dollar,” the minister of finance signalled to currency traders that the federal government supported and wanted a higher loonie. Immediately, it was bit higher. Cause and effect. Experienced finance ministers know not to do such a stupid thing. — Garth”
Garth, do you really believe half the crap you write here? If one is to believe what you preach on this blog on a regular basis: the Harper government is the most ineffective we have ever had. Yet now you think that the Finance Minister is responsible for the dollar’s rise. The fact is, the dollar’s “rise” is mostly the result of the US$’s “fall” against ours. It had very little if anything to do with a member of our government “talking it up”. I pray to god nobody ever decides that you understand economics well enough to be our Fin Minister. This country will be in a heap of hurt!!
He exacerbated the situation at a moment of harm. A seasoned fin min would have known never to comment on the dollar, especially to boast about its gains. Stupid, stupid, stupid. — Garth
Harper wants big polluters in on G8’s climate change plan
THE CANADIAN PRESS – July 2, 2008
OTTAWA – Stephen Harper will make the case to fellow G8 leaders next week that it’s futile to reach a global agreement on climate change without including the world’s biggest polluters.
The prime minister will argue that major emitters of greenhouse gases like the United States, China and India must be part of any climate-change pact, Harper spokesman Dimitri Soudas said Tuesday.
“At the end of the day, if we don’t get an agreement where major emitters play a role in helping to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions, we’re simply not making any progress,” Soudas told journalists at a pre-summit briefing.
“In order to genuinely tackle climate change and to start seeing concrete results, we need to have major emitters on board. That includes countries like the United States, China and India.”
It’s a message Harper took to Europe in May when he donned his travelling salesman’s hat on a whirlwind trip to France, Germany, Italy and Britain.
Harper’s office billed the visit as an opportunity for the prime minister to explain Canada’s green plan on an international stage, prior to the G8 summit.
More at:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Environment/2008/07/02/6046291-cp.html
………………………………………………………..
There you have it folks …. our PM Harper is working on the larger international scale to control planetary GHG … not asking Canadians to fall on a carbon tax sword over Canada’s insignificant 2.3% of global GHGs.
I hope this answers some of his detractors who claim that PM Harper is doing nothing on global GHGs. So let’s support our PM Harper as he tries to do something significant for global-warming GHG emission control and reduction.
By tom from ns on 07.02.08 3:00 pm
This I often think about Tom. On daily walks with my dog, I am often amazed by what people are throwing out. On several occasions, I put my “pride aside”, and did a little waste recuperation for personal gain.
A couple of weeks ago, my neighbour threw out a mountain bike, 21 speed indexed shifting, alloy frame and wheels, suspension front, with nary a scratch. He had wrapped the chain around the freewheel jamming the rear wheel. So he threw it out! My nephew needed a bike, so for the price of a new chain, and a little mechanical wizardry, I basically got him a new bike worth probably well over $300.00.
I recently built a nice bookshelf for my wife out of materials gained from another neighbour throwing out several “old” pieces of furniture.
So, yes, our over-consumptive society is stuck on image, so if it isn’t “new”, it has less value.
Look at automobiles – a favorite toy of mine. It used to be that you bought a Rolls Royce as it would last forever, and had quality built in. Now, if you drive a 5 year old Rolls, you have less prestige than someone buying a new one.
We used to buy things that lasted, now all we want seems to be the latest-and-greatest; as defined by the marketers. No one darns socks, or patches jeans. If the clothes fade, they must be discarded.
Who knows how we went astray on this one.
But, as you point out, is it our excessive consumerism that drives the economy? Do we have to keep throwing things out for our economy to survive by making new stuff to throw away? I wish I could answer that one. One thing for sure – this attitude is costing our environment dearly.
As a kid, I used to get more joy out of the toys I made than the ones my folks bought. Sure, there was an initial buzz from opening the boxes, but they soon became clutter in the room, and it was my wooden boat, or homemade gun that I played with most. All you need to do is watch Xmas time if you have young children around to realize we have a major problem. We shower them with gifts, most of which might hold their attention for about 2 minutes. Then it is off for the next package. When it is all over, they play with the packaging and ignore the toys! Small wonder attention spans, imagination and creativity are so much on the decline. We kill it in infancy!
So, do we consume more to keep the Chinese toy machine afloat, or do we get back to more traditional values.
My vote is for longevity.
Ask her…she is after all still an MP who works full time managing Magna.
If she would speak to you in a frank and open manner…I think the answer would be very interesting.
You have a wealth of insider knowledge right at your finger tips in your fellow MP.
Leasa
By Leasa on 07.02.08 7:25 am
Oh, there goes Leasa again – trying to divert our attention and the topic at hand…sigh.
Leasa – it’s not working.
Now, back to the economy.
FYI Garth, I have read your carbon tax plan cover to cover and do not agree it is a tax cut. I do not trust that it will be revenue neutral. I am well aware of the Liberal propensity for tax and spend politics. Please don’t insult my intelligence by suggesting I read it to understand it. Reading it over and over does not make it any clearer. Its a tax, pure and simple. The redistribution of western money does not equal a revenue neutral tax. It will be uneven and punitive for people who do not live in cities. I live in Abbotsford but work in Langley (30K), I would live closer but the diff. in housing prices dictate that I must live in Abby. I still have children at home and low income parents in NFLD. Now I am between both pressures and your party wants me to pay more for transpo. Good luck. I’ll be voting otherwise.
Wow, a 30-km commute. We should do something about that. — Garth
“The federal government..talked it (the dollar) up by 30 percent in less than a year.” Surprisingly other, apparently competent, financial types are pointing out that various issues drove up the value of the dollar. It appears Garth either isn’t aware of them or simply chooses to ignore them.
Very aware. — Garth
Aw the air in BC must be cleaner this morning! New carbon tax went into effect and gas went up 2.5 cents a litre. Thanks again liberals.
Who did you thank for the last 50 cents? — Garth
So I say this. If Mr. Dion is treated badly by radical Albertans because he has demonstrated courage and principle; I think we here in Ontario should take note of that. For instance, if someone were to throw an egg at him or swear at him, perhaps we might return the favour to Harper when he comes to Southwestern Ontario.
Anyone agree? If so spread the word.
By Daryn on 07.02.08 12:19 pm
Actually, Daryn, my husband and I have already settled on what we will do about Albertans and, by association, Saskatchewanians. We had been planning a cross country driving trip from our home in southern Ontario to Vancouver Island and then Yukon. We knew the fuel for the truck hauling our trailer would be prohibitively expensive but we wanted to see the country and meet other Canadians. Now, we don’t feel that we’d be at all welcome in either of those western provinces so likely, the money we would have spent on the trip wouldn’t be welcomed – or needed – either. I’m reminded of Peter Lougheed’s infamous remark, “Let those eastern bastards freeze in the dark!”. What is it about some westerners that makes them hate those of us in the east so much. It’s not as if we haven’t provided much of their income for decades past and most of us haven’t griped about paying a fair price for their product. So why the knee-jerk suggestion from them to us to suffer in the cold and dark we all share for a majority of the year? If we die due to cold are they better off somehow? Tell me; I really need to know.
And inclined not to share them with the other folks here? Put another way your claim that the Cons “talked up the dollar by 30%…” is, well, less than entirely true.
We cannot control many external factors moving the currency. A made-in-Canada dumb finance minister is another matter. — Garth
He should probably than the many things contributing to the skyrocketing price of oil all over the world, however he was able to identify the specific source of the 2.5 cent/litre increase in B.C. In any case a 2.5 cent increase isn’t particularly dramatic.
Yes, I recognise these as possibly retrogressive, but sometimes one has to admit a mistake, and start again. Certainly, there are lots of problems in my suggestions, but the details can be hammered out.
By maybe Rhino? on 07.02.08 11:31 am
Well thought out and communicated, Rhino. A much better use of my time is to read instructive posts with good suggestions, so I thank you for not wasting my time.
I don’t imagine you, or anyone else, knows how much of the value of the dollar is attributable to the “dumb finance minister”. In any case try to avoid playing fast and loose with the truth in your blog.
I speak with currency traders regularly. And you? — Garth
Who did you thank for the last 50 cents? — Garth
And who should we thank for Canada’s 30% GHG excess over our Kyoto targets as well, Garth?
Care to reconcile Liberal Rodriguez’ Kyoto Compliance act with Dion’s Green Shift scheme?
No, I guess you don’t want to do that … and prefer to conceal the Dion Liberal hidden agenda.
Thanks ….
Grocery Wars:
A new paradigm
The need to expand agricultural production was one of the motives and main causes behind most of the wars in recorded history, along with expansion of the energy base (and agricultural production is truly an essential portion of the energy base). And when Europeans could no longer expand cultivation, they began the task of conquering the world. Explorers were followed by conquistadors and traders and settlers. The declared reasons for expansion may have been trade, avarice, greed, empire or simply curiosity, but at its base, it was all about the expansion of agricultural
Where ever the explorers roamed they left behind ‘new’ agriculture ,plantations and tilled soil and little fallow earth .
Certainly, to this day, landowners and farmers fight to claim still more land for agricultural productivity, but they are fighting over crumbs.
Today, virtually all of the productive land on this planet is being exploited by agriculture. What remains unused is too steep, too wet, too dry or lacking in soil nutrients or overdosed with toxins from pesticides .
The mechanization of agriculture hastened the clearing and tilling of land and augmented the amount of farmland which could be tended by one person. With every increase in food production, the human population grew apace.
We have taken over all the prime real estate on this planet. The rest of nature is forced to make do with the depleted remains .Witness the clear cutting in British Columbia ,
Clearly, this is one of the major factors in species extinctions and in ecosystem stress and break down.
Green revolution
Between 1950 and 1984, as the Green Revolution transformed agriculture around the globe, world grain production increased by 250%.That is a tremendous increase in the amount of food energy available for human consumption. This additional energy did not come from an increase in incipient sunlight, nor did it result from introducing agriculture to new vistas of land. The energy for the Green Revolution was provided by fossil fuels in the form of fertilizers (natural gas), pesticides (oil), and hydrocarbon fueled irrigation.
The Green Revolution increased the energy flow to agriculture by an average of 50 times the energy input of traditional agriculture.. In the most extreme cases, energy consumption by agriculture has increased 100 fold or more..
In North America, 800 gallons of oil equivalents are expended annually to feed each human(as of data provided in (2004). Agricultural energy consumption is broken down as follows:
· 31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer
· 19% for the operation of field machinery
· 16% for transportation
· 13% for irrigation
· 08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed)
· 05% for crop drying
· 05% for pesticide production
· 08% miscellaneous
Modern intensive agriculture is unsustainable. Technologically-enhanced agriculture has augmented soil erosion, polluted and overdrawn groundwater and surface water, and even (largely due to increased pesticide use) caused serious public health and environmental problems. Soil erosion, overtaxed cropland and water resource overdraft in turn lead to even greater use of fossil fuels and hydrocarbon products. More hydrocarbon-based fertilizers must be applied, along with more pesticides; irrigation water requires more energy to pump; and fossil fuels are used to process polluted water.
It takes 500 years to replace 1 inch of topsoil. In a natural environment, topsoil is built up by decaying plant matter and weathering rock, and it is protected from erosion by growing plants. In soil made susceptible by agriculture, erosion is reducing productivity up to 65% each year.
Former prairie lands, which constitute the bread basket of the Canada and the United States, have lost one half of their topsoil after farming for about 100 years. This soil is eroding 30 times faster than the natural formation rate
Just when agricultural output could expand no more by increasing acreage, new innovations made possible a more thorough exploitation of the acreage already available. The process of “pest” displacement and appropriation for agriculture accelerated with the industrial revolution as the mechanization of agriculture hastened the clearing and tilling of land and augmented the amount of farmland which could be tended by one person. With every increase in food production, the human population grew apace.
Like an out of control Merry-go-round we are spinning faster and faster towards total agricultuiral collapse .
Solar energy is a renewable resource limited only by the inflow rate from the sun to the earth. Fossil fuels, on the other hand, are a stock-type resource that can be exploited at a nearly limitless rate. However, on a human timescale, fossil fuels are nonrenewable. They represent a planetary energy deposit which we can draw from at any rate we wish, but which will eventually be exhausted without renewal. The Green Revolution tapped into this energy deposit and used it to increase agricultural production.
Agriculture directly accounts for 17% of all the energy used in this country.12 As of 1990, we were using approximately 1,000 liters (6.41 barrels) of oil to produce food on one hectare of land.
Can`t say I didn`t tell you the Cdn economy was on thin ice with global demand for raw resources falling off. Matter of fact I`ve said it several times on this blog over the last year. Kind of funny how the conversation hasn`t changed even though the whoosh you hear isn`t China, it`s the Cdn economy flushing.
Not to worry, as long as you pretend it isn`t happening it won`t, right? lol ya right.
http://tinyurl.com/4mhns4
Wed Jul 2, 4:51 PM
TSX plunges 433 points on worries about demand for commodities;NY also lower
What is it about some westerners that makes them hate those of us in the east so much.
By Linda Pearson on 07.02.08 5:48 pm
Hate is such a strong term to use when it`s compassion we feel. We keep reaching out telling you Ottawa is manipulating the economy to keep Ontario to economic power house. First the NEP transfer of wealth from west to east. Then the intentionally devalued dollar which cost ALL Cdn consumers 30% of their spending power and now Dions tax shift which will again come directly out of the consumers pocket.
There are only two parties that pay in this country, the tax payer or the consumer,,, or both. Corporations paying taxes is a myth, they simply add it to the cost of the product which the consumer pays.
We`ve tried to educate you easterners but failing that we`ll just have to part company with our uneducated brothers and sisters in the east.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm,
Why then is Harper so eager to trade with the very same countries? Why is he eager to increases Canada’s carbon footprint so they can pollute even more? I have a great deal of difficulty with this argument.
It appears to me that it is more important to our government to make the commodity traders wealthy than to develop a sustainable domestic economy based on good environmentalism. That is the kind of conservative “priority” that should be worrying the majority of Canadians.
I hope this answers some of his detractors who claim that PM Harper is doing nothing on global GHGs. So let’s support our PM Harper as he tries to do something significant for global-warming GHG emission control and reduction.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm
What a joke ! Stand up for the planet.
The morons were laughed out of Bali .
Baird barely even showed his,stupid,face.
You should be on Just For Laughs .
What a moron you are .
Some dude called Plato said this. He may be on to sumtin’, ‘coz I figure an awful lotta shit is hitting one enormous fan:
“Excess generally causes reaction, and produces a change in the opposite direction, whether it be in the seasons, or in individuals, or in governments.” — Plato
Ahhhhh, the glorious decade of greed in the 1980s shows its ugly head again.
Remember Michael Douglas in the film ‘Wall Street’? Greed is gooooddd! Gimmmee, gimmee more, more!
****************************************
Can we really afford to be in Afghanistan? . . .
Lana, 7:15 am
Hello Lana.
Judging by the amount of money we are wasting on a never-ending war, and with the economic downturn gathering momentum here, Canada should never have gotten involved in the first place.
As long as the US, Brits and Cdn. militaries are in a part of the world they shouldn’t be, there won’t be stability there.
It is curious to note that people complain about high oil prices and the cost of gas, etc., yet dubya ordered an illegal invasion of Iraq, knowing well in advance there never were any WMD anywhere in that region.
It was dubya who stood on an aircraft carrier and said ‘mission accomplished’, so why are the troops still there? OIL, and a war which ultimately benefits Israel, as none of their soldiers gets killed — it’s always other people’s kids.
The US continues to mess up people’s lives, not only in Iraq, but Iran too, quietly sowing the seeds of discontent among the people, which will lead to a much larger fight than most of us have ever seen.
****************************************
So, why are Canadians getting screed?
Pecked to Death by Ducks, 9:36 am
Hello Pecked.
Not just Cdns. The price of gas in Europe is roughly double what we pay — $3.50 / litre and up, which is why a lot of bicycling is done there.
Something way beyond what ‘Ordinary People’ see is happening, and mighty fast too. Nothing can be done about it, which goes with the next post . . .
. . . is going to result in a financial calamity of incredible proportion, and the costs of this mess will be born by Canadian consumers and taxpayers. . . . This is going to cost us ALL big time!
Ben, 9:48 am
Hello Ben.
A number of recent reports, on rense, desertpeace, WRH, and the rawstory have all said roughly the same thing — after July 4 / 08, there will be a very short, extremely sharp downturn in the western world’s economy.
This could be one reason why an awful lot of cash — where IS IT coming from — is swamping China, a different country with different values, destabilizing their own economy.
Yes, it will hurt enormously, especially for those who have large debt loads.
LEASA asked for it:
“Oh Barbie…read slowly this time, sound it out”
O-k-a-y….
Regarding BC’s one day example, Leasa snarls, “just a small taste of what corporations will do with Dion’s tax shaft plan!!”
~Hello fear-mongering? LEASA’s calling you, but you’ll be on hold while she further obfuscates one plan with another, but you can listen while Leasa sings a few extrapolated songs of hysteria in order to sling SMEAR-BY-ASSOCIATION.
Then Leasa asks “Show me an example where I said Dion is not loyal to Canada. Of course I could ask the real question again if you’d like.”
BY LEASA 07.02.08 2:19PM
Okay, Leasa, Glad you asked..
How about this one from you:
“it is time to show it by showing singular loyalty to my country.”
BY LEASA ON 06.28.08 4:35 PM
Or this one from you:
LEASA in agreement with: “Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances.”
LEASA replied: “Thank you! – you are bang-on.”
BY LEASA ON 06.29.08 12:46 PM
There, LEASA, you said it:
(a) You asked Dion to “show it by showing singular loyalty to my country”.
(b) You agreed with exclamation, to the questioning of Dion’s loyalty.
Happy?
LEASA, I know you’ve been on the fainting couch for quite awhile now, over Dion, who you said you would never vote for.
Your implications about him are clouded by your constant innuendo and baseless accusations.
Leasa isn’t asking questions, she just continues to gear up FALSE ACCUSATIONS of something untoward, a well-documented Republican trick of their past two elections. Your admittance about your husband being “a dualie” clears up all “dualie” love for and loyalty to Canada. Let’s further look at your false set-up. And yes, it’s a set-up, not a question you ask, so I’ll call it what it is:
Your real and constant “framed set-up” is directed at that other country and is completely full of innuendo: “What do they feel is in it for them? What was the deal? What do they get in return?” …Leasa wanders through frames of false accusations and innuendo.
Leasa, this is your ruse, your fake pretense, to satisfy hurtling your false smears, and you will never have honest people listen to you. You have been uncovered time and time again.
You can’t receive an answer to phony, framed “set-ups” ..and that’s Leasa’s ruse here. We know that, and she knows that.
Although I could try: LEASA, why don’t you email France and ask “THEM” about your false accusation of them.
Leasa’s attempts are smoke and mirrors, with smear and obfiscation tactics that are well-documented in this blog.
And Leasa, you have copied and pasted the same thing into this blog dozens of smearing times. So no, your offer to repeat it only serves the con job you assigned yourself to do.
The gig is up on your favourite self-assigned allusion about Dion, you will have to go beyond copy and paste and assert your specific crime of allegiance. If you falsely accuse France of something, that is far closer to hysteria, and at the very least, lies, considering it is completely made out of accusations by you, is it not? How do you justify that sort of innuendo?
LEASA admits to enjoying placing baseless smears in her campaign in this media, as when she said:
“enjoy the show. Keep watching…tap, tap, tippity-tap…
LEASA a.k.a. Ginger Rogers”
BY LEASA ON 06.30.08 2:27 PM
Odd. Yet convenient, isn’t it, how con-jobbers so often end up bragging to their downfall.
Sorry for the long post, Garth. Maybe someone can shorten and edit it for their own use to copy and paste next time she spews her framed false set-ups.
Garth why do goverment workers get paid so much?
I am well aware of the Liberal propensity for tax and spend politics.
By Spencer on 07.02.08 5:15 pm
I read this claim often. Can someone please post an example of a tax and spend Liberal policy (that was introduced) since 1990 – because I seem to remember that taxes went down since the 1990 (i.e when the Liberals were in power and cutting spending)?
By tom from ns on 07.02.08 3:00 pm,
It surprises me that Halifax is so far behind some other Nova Scotia municipalities in its recycling. Our municipality takes all numbered plastics.
Mayberhino
Great posts today! You got it right when you said Fair Trade not free trade. Do not worry this will happen within a year as both U.S. presidential candidates have stated clearly they are going to impose a green tax. I read an article last week I wish I saved that stated that there is legislation currently in front of congress that will allow the government to impose a green tarif on all goods and resources brought into the states from countries that don’t put a tax on at source. While the main target is obviously China the talk last week about “dirty” oil is a warning shot across Canada’s bough that we better get onside quick or we will be taxed as well. When I read this it finally explained why China and the rest of the world is frantically racing to clean up their act.
Harper was right when he said there was no sense for Canada to act without the U.S. and others acting too. Well guess what the rest of the world is racing towards the new economy and Harper is still trying to hide behind the same message. The world will change and whether we gain from it by participating or get steam rollered by it depends on whether the cons. are in power or another party.
Interesting isn’t it Garth how nobody has attempted to answer my three questions I posed before going to bed. It is also interesting to watch the U.S. struggle with these same questions which are at the heart of the growing crises down there. It is just my opinion but if we figure out the answers now before the same problems hit home here we may be able to soften some of the impacts and keep much of our economy, especialy the construction industry and related suppliers intact which would prevent us from going from recession to depression like is happening down south now. Of course we may lose our credit card companies and a couple of banks in the meantime but that is a small price to pay.
Sadly, there’s no way for us to know if you do or you don’t so your claim is pretty much irrelevent. If indeed you do that’d make your rather dubious claims all the more worrisome. You can only milk the “finance guy” schtick for so much, Garth.
Thanks ….
hunky hereditary hasta horny hairy, 6:34 pm
Can I call you Sugar Plum? Angel Drawers? Cutie-kins? Liquid Plumber?
Thanks for all of your spineless leader harpo’s traitorous lies . . . but no thanks.
On your way out of Canada hairy, please close the door after you, so you’re constant drivel / whining is no longer a part of our lives. You’re excused for life.
You used to be so damned sexy, too!
…not asking Canadians to fall on a carbon tax sword over Canada’s insignificant 2.3% of global GHGs.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm
It’s called leading by example. Not following the crowd. We have no credibility “telling” India, China and the US to reduce emissions since we are unwilling to do anything abuot our “measly” 2.3%
This goes directly with Garth’s present column.
http://tinyurl.com/4ee5aj
*******************************************
Really good, plain old-fashioned common sense Top 25 list.
Numbers nine, 10 and 15 tell quite a lot about folk in general.
http://tinyurl.com/5f4g9h
Harry S
Please explain this statement of yours posted on 07.02.08 3:53 pm.
“We have a Liberal law on the books that proclaims Canada must comply with Kyoto 100%.”
I wasn’t aware that political partys are empowered to make or can have ownership of legislation – when did this constitutional change occur?
Aw the air in BC must be cleaner this morning! New carbon tax went into effect and gas went up 2.5 cents a litre. Thanks again liberals.
Who did you thank for the last 50 cents? — Garth
By gary v on 07.02.08 5:36 pm
Garth, the rise in oil prices and gasoline at the pump has to be Harpers fault. The riots and strikes in Europe over high fuel costs is also Harpers fault. And the high gasoline prices in the USofA are Harpers fault as well.
We get it. The finance minister can move the value of the dollar just by “talking” and Harper controls global oil price.
Having said all that, the libs just took more from consumers in BC and if Dion is elected will do the same.
In (humble) respect to the comment about LEASA made by Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 7:08 pm:
SCORCH!!!!!!
Barb, I could not have said it better!
You ROCK!
You did say that perhaps “someone can shorten and edit it” right?
Although I lack your formidable literary skills, I’ll take a stab at it. How’s this?
Leasa behaves like a hypocritical anal orifice. No wonder she adores the Harper regime. Please ignore her.
’nuff said?
By boasting of “our strong dollar,” the minister of finance signalled to currency traders that the federal government supported and wanted a higher loonie. Immediately, it was bid higher. Cause and effect. Experienced finance ministers know not to do such a stupid thing. — Garth
By Ron p on 07.02.08 11:16 am
I can’t totally disagree with that because Dim Jim the Fin Min was pretty good at talking down the Ontario economy. And he must think he’s the cat’s ass of finance.
ps good post today.
Garth, I think you’ll agree with me. We need deep and immediate tax cuts to help weather the gathering storm…
Having said all that, the libs just took more from consumers in BC and if Dion is elected will do the same.
BY JANICE ON 07.02.08 7:48 PM
Janice,
You failed to read the part about revenue neutral – they get it back. So I’ll mention it for you, since you keep conveniently leaving that out of your daily posts. I’ve heard of short attention spans, but you take the cake. Fruitcake.
The gas price increase in BC wasn’t a problem for a majority of the population until the NDP rolled out their disgusting propaganda campaign to trash the Carbon Tax. Now approval ratings have fallen way off because some folks still believe that the NDP, the party that gave us the ‘FFF’ (Fast Ferries Fiasco) that we’re still paying for, gives a damn about anything but their political agenda.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm,
Why then is Harper so eager to trade with the very same countries? Why is he eager to increases Canada’s carbon footprint so they can pollute even more? I have a great deal of difficulty with this argument.
It appears to me that it is more important to our government to make the commodity traders wealthy than to develop a sustainable domestic economy based on good environmentalism. That is the kind of conservative “priority” that should be worrying the majority of Canadians.
By C. B. Innes on 07.02.08 6:51 pm
———————————————————————
I hope this answers some of his detractors who claim that PM Harper is doing nothing on global GHGs. So let’s support our PM Harper as he tries to do something significant for global-warming GHG emission control and reduction.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm
What a joke ! Stand up for the planet.
The morons were laughed out of Bali .
Baird barely even showed his,stupid,face.
You should be on Just For Laughs .
What a moron you are .
By Men With Hats on 07.02.08 6:59 pm
———————————————————————
Thanks ….
hunky hereditary hasta horny hairy, 6:34 pm
Can I call you Sugar Plum? Angel Drawers? Cutie-kins? Liquid Plumber?
Thanks for all of your spineless leader harpo’s traitorous lies . . . but no thanks.
On your way out of Canada hairy, please close the door after you, so you’re constant drivel / whining is no longer a part of our lives. You’re excused for life.
You used to be so damned sexy, too!
By Charles Oxley on 07.02.08 7:22 pm
———————————————————————
…not asking Canadians to fall on a carbon tax sword over Canada’s insignificant 2.3% of global GHGs.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 4:54 pm
It’s called leading by example. Not following the crowd. We have no credibility “telling” India, China and the US to reduce emissions since we are unwilling to do anything abuot our “measly” 2.3%
By Tim N on 07.02.08 7:26 pm
—————————————————————–
Harry S
Please explain this statement of yours posted on 07.02.08 3:53 pm.
“We have a Liberal law on the books that proclaims Canada must comply with Kyoto 100%.”
I wasn’t aware that political partys are empowered to make or can have ownership of legislation – when did this constitutional change occur?
By William Laidlaw on 07.02.08 7:43 pm
——————————————————————
There you have it folks … the Liberal Death Star brigade attempting to discredit me .. but refusing to broach the valid issues I have presented to our MP Garth’s fine forum.
C.B. Innes — Your statements are incoherent, and reek with desperation. Clarify yourself .. like butter.
Men With Hats — You are clinging to straws .. last straws too … Harper is omnipresent and Dion insignificant.
Charles Oxley — Seek help .. fast .. you deserve the best …
Tim N — You could be right .. so why are we punishing ourselves over our insignificant 2.3% of global GHGs or 0.7% GHG reduction to the world’s total under Kyoto.? Yup .. to comply to Kyoto we would only reduce total world GHGs by 0.7% .. but that represents the 30% of Canadian GHG excess created by past Liberal governments .. scary, eh ..??!!!
William Laidlaw — Are you not aware of the private member’s bill C-288 initiated by Liberal MP Pablo Rodriguez that would force any federal government of the day to comply 100% with our Kyoto commitments … and approved by all opposition parties to frustrate the Conservative government? It’s called The Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act and can be found at: http://www.ec.gc.ca/doc/ed-es/p_123/tdm-toc_eng.htm
I hope that will help you understand my questioning MP Garth on reconciling the “Liberal law” on Kyoto compliance and Dion’s Green Shift scheme … otherwise we are facing a Liberal “hidden agenda” and Canadians want to know now what that hidden agenda might be … aren’t you concerned too or are you just being snide ..??!!!
Now all of you with your obfuscations and personal insults can go back to your caves in the Liberal Death Star and report back to the ‘emperor’ or whoever is pulling your strings.
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 7:08 pm
This time Barbie, get someone to read it to you. Might help.
No where did I say that Mr. Dion was not loyal to Canada. But I think you know that already. Or, maybe you really don’t? Poor dear.
I know it’s hard…but I cut and paste very rarely. I leave that up to others.
That’s all the time I will waste on this…except to say, I think you made Benord very excited in a strange way. LOL
Leasa
I can’t wait to hear the squeals from Ontario when Oil sands development increases 5 fold over the next 15 years…squeal away!
Please ignore her.
’nuff said?
By Ben on 07.02.08 7:52 pm
I agree that ignoring certain people on this blog (and you know who you are) is the least stressful option, but man, it is hard to do sometimes. Some of the con trolls are so irritating, I have to stay away from Garth’s great blog for days on end. Maybe that is their true purpose besides enjoying being rude, argumentative and obtuse.
I call them “master-baiters”, pun intended.
I see the attack machine is in full swing. Sure most have noted that con-trolls are usually the first to post. They must be sitting in front of their screens waiting for Garth’s next blog. How sad. Do they receive a commission for being the first to attack??
By kpn on 07.02.08 7:16 am
I’ve noted that too, KPN. I hope they receive a commission because the alternative would be that they don’t have a life.
Hope you had a great Canada Day everyone!
NOTICE : To all con-bot twinkle-toed,little fairies and the ‘Bitches of Eastwick ‘-Leasa,Catherine and Janice .
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.”
Dan Moynihan
Is there NOTHING that the official opposition can do to protect us from these weasels?
BY BEN ON 07.02.08 9:48 AM
Ben,
Isn’t it frustrating, but that the most powerful tool for our protection, like removal of a cancer, unfortunately takes time and patience for best success. We’re done with the symptoms, tests and diagnosis. Now we’re just waiting for the hospital to re-open. The doctor [voters] will then operate. Meanwhile, the cure will be stampeding this week. Lucky I bought my ticket early. And I thought I was just going to get some food while taking in my second event to meet Liberals.
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 7:08 pm
Wow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXk4P12p1tU&feature=related
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 2:15 pm
I checked out the video, Barb, and it was interesting to see some of the same phrases on the video used here on the blog…they must have taken the “how to speak Republican” course, or like you said in a post from a few weeks ago, it is a mind-set, and comes naturally.
I wonder how many Conservative bloggers will check out this video?
“I cut and paste very rarely. I leave that up to others.”
“No where did I say that Mr. Dion was not loyal to Canada.”
BY LEASA ON 07.02.08 8:48 PM
_______________________________
Leasa, your lie doesn’t cut it. It’s all in print here.
When I got to 10 pastes over the past week, of the same false accusation you keep copying into this blog, I stopped counting — anyone can go back and count ‘em.
And here’s what you said in some of those posts, and I only went back a couple of days!
You questioned M. Dion’s loyalty when YOU said:
“it is time to show it by showing singular loyalty to my country.”
BY LEASA ON 06.28.08 4:35 PM
Or this one from you when you applauded: “Why then would you think that Dion’s loyalty is some sacred cow that we can not possibly question under any circumstances.”
Leasa, your reply to THAT was: “Thank you! – - you are bang-on.”
BY LEASA ON 06.29.08 12:46 PM
Leasa, you made these statements questioning Dion’s loyalty to Canada. Period.
I’ve driven a truck through and over Dion’s Green Shift with the Liberal’s own Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act … and now the forum is reduced to whimpering and mewling about how bad and unfair the opponents are … boo hoo …LOL
And not a peep out of MP Garth .. obviously hoping that the forum Liberal trools will divert attention away from the bitter, devastating Truth about the Green Shift Hidden Agenda …!!!
By orlebar on 07.02.08 8:24 pm
What was the bigger fiasco, building the fast ferries for over 5oo million, or selling them off for 20 million to the company that built them? I think the scrap value for the aluminum would have returned more money then they were sold for. All parties are to blame on that fiasco.
Leasa, you made these statements questioning Dion’s loyalty to Canada. Period.
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.02.08 9:30 pm
In my opinion (for what it’s worth) Barb’s right and Leasa is wrong. Barb wins, Leasa loses. But, Barb, I’ve “been there, done that” and it is a waste of time. She’ll never admit it. It is all part of her persona, as Gord has pointed out previously. I can’t help but think she is Janice, but that’s another story.
Pointless to rush a carbon emissions plan
Neil Reynolds – The Globe and Mail – July 2, 2008
OTTAWA — Assuming – however briefly – that Canada must impose carbon taxes, when would be the best time to do it? Stéphane Dion says now. Right now. Yale University economist William Nordhaus says, well, slow down, friend. We have time. Let’s do this thing properly.
Dr. Nordhaus takes global warming seriously, anticipating that it may well “cast a shadow over the globe for decades, perhaps centuries, to come.” When he says centuries, he means centuries. In his highly sophisticated computer analysis of global warming strategies, he includes the option of doing nothing at all for 250 years – and found that it delivered the same result (measured in global emissions of carbon dioxide one century hence) as the Kyoto Protocol with or without the United States.
He includes, as well, a 50-year delay and got an intriguing assessment. Implement the right climate change strategy in 2055 and you still get – by 2105 – precisely the same reduction in CO{-2} that you get with the computer-designed “optimal strategy,” a go-slow, go-frugal approach that begins modestly in the next decade and expands incrementally through the rest of the century.
In a brilliant analysis of carbon strategies – The Challenge of Global Warming: Economic Models and Environmental Policy, published last year – Dr. Nordhaus observes that the complexity of global warming rules out absolute certainty of any kind, whether academic or ideological. “Whatever goal we set will probably be incorrect.” Given this caution, it is essential to adopt a strategy that can be quickly adapted to changing circumstances and changing technologies, he says.
Dr. Nordhaus notes that a single technological advance in 2050, or in 2100, could render redundant Trillions of prematurely invested dollars. This is one of the reasons why the most aggressive climate change strategies – the celebrated Stern Review proposals, the controversial dictums espoused by Al Gore – badly flunk the Nordhaus computer analysis test.
………
Mr. Dion’s confused and panic-driven Green Shift is in no way ready for the big time. He should take a few more years and get it right. Ironically, the longer we take, the better our strategy will be – as science and as economics.
More at:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080702.RREYNOLDS02/TPStory/Business/columnists
…………………………………
So what’s the rush, M. Dion … what is your Green Shift Hidden Agenda all about .. Canadians want to know now before they vote …!!!!
Hello Lana.
Judging by the amount of money we are wasting on a never-ending war, and with the economic downturn gathering momentum here, Canada should never have gotten involved in the first place.
As long as the US, Brits and Cdn. militaries are in a part of the world they shouldn’t be, there won’t be stability there. Charles Oxley
I couldn’t agree more. Now wait for the “bleeding heart liberal” accusations from the “republican-speak” trolls.
It is one of the few NDP issues that I agree with–get out of Afghanistan now. We can’t afford it, and our soldiers are dying or coming home maimed–physically, emotionally and spiritually. We have poverty-stricken children who go to school hungry every day. Let’s do something about THAT!
. . . Dion standing up for Canadian values first and foremost, and he’ll stand against the larger influences instead of being their lap dog. We are being fleeced by Harper, . . .
Barb the proof-reader, 3:26 pm
Hello Barb.
Fleeced by harpo, but done according to carney’s whims, who carries out DC’s orders without question, which is why Canada is in a downward spiral now.
This is why an awful lot of Cdns., who are now on EI and losing their shirts (and possibly homes) will be thoroughly pissed off at CRAP and their policies come the election.
Further explains Dion’s unwillingness to fall prey to all these “confidence motions”, set by CRAP who were desperately hoping for an early call — CRAP would have had another minority, but no more.
Because Dion will clearly place Canada first — less dependence on the US, and varying our trade partners — CRAP will vote themselves out.
Exit stage left!
****************************************
Heading and two paras. only (no link).
A few years ago, snow fell on the Coquihalla Hwy., between Hope and Kamloops; not white-out conditions, but treacherous enough, every month for the whole year.
“Snow in July?
“With diesel smoke and white powder flying, heavy equipment operators worked furiously to remove enough snow to open the Going-to-the-Sun road, which connects the two sides of Glacier National Park and is usually open by the first week of June.
“But huge amounts of snow still blanket the Northern Rockies high country, in part because of record snowfalls in Montana this year, so the opening will not take place until Wednesday, the latest on record by a day, except for World War II when the road was not plowed at all.”
As I have mentioned before, the next few winters may be quite severe.
By Ken C on 07.02.08 3:48 pm
Glad to see someone challenge my accuracy from time to time keeping me on my toes
In terms of what I know concerning Alta oilsands and the breakdown of Can/foreign owned resources, I’m a one hit wonder who relies heavily on the Pembena institute for information (I could go to the markets, but I’m busy). It might be enough!
http://www.wwf.ca/RESOURCES/PDF/OilSandsReport.pdf
On page 18 of the PDF (page 5 of the report) is a list of development in the Alta oil sands up to Jan 2007 (with three producers missing from the survey). Currently, 1.1 Million Barrels of oil per day are being produced in Alta’s oil sands of which the breakdown is looking to be around 55 – 60% Canadian corp owned. Buy 2016, its projected that production will be at 1.7 million barrels per day. By 2030, its projected to be 5 million Barrels of oil per day by some but development is only slated by the Alta government to 1.9 million barrels per day at present with current licence approvals issued and the major issue is water quantities for refinement.
The key questions concerning the government is who the government will allow to develop the tarsands be they Can or foreign corps and by what percentages, what federal/provincial environmental standards and taxation to promote lowered C02/GHG emissions should be in place and what the Alta government is going to do in terms of the rate of development. These are all major questions that begs for accurate information and we have to find the right answers, the ones that aren’t spun by lobbyists as they simply do not have the public interest in mind.
http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/OS-Undermining-factsheet.pdf
http://pubs.pembina.org/reports/CarbonNeutral2020_Final.pdf
Estimated costs of capturing C02/GHG’s at Alta oilsand projects are in both links above. The second is quite technical. Just as refining technology has dramatically improved to make oil extraction from Alta bitumen, tech needs to be improved to lower the costs of feisability in terms of improved C02 sequestering.
It was once said often and many years ago that Alta oil sands should wait in terms of development until the bugs are solved from all the environmental issues. Well… there’s plenty of bugs and now we’re all playing serious catch up with the government and producers themselves unsurprisingly dragging their feet.
If Climate Change media releases from the Pembena Institute are an indicator of where its at, the message is compelling.
http://climate.pembina.org/media-releases
Thanks again, Ken.
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.02.08 6:40 pm
Speak for yourself. This farmer from Saskatchewan wants no part of your western separatist divisionary anti-Canadian Harpercrite speak. Keep it to yourself.
By Men With Hats on 07.02.08 6:39 pm
I agree. Current farming techniques are at present, unsustainable, even if there is a major shift in the way energy is currently produced and used.
There are answers, but no one wants to hear them because it means reduced crop yields. For an example, we can go without fertilizing crops and grow organic (which means dropped yields and giving crop lands a rest/summerfallow) but farmers/corps/governments don’t want to consider it. In the end, however, they’ll have to. Fertilizer shortages will become chronic world wide within 5 to 10 years (never mind peak oil shortages).
Just to add to what you’ve said, it takes 10 to 15 gallons of diesel to farm each acre per year to farm half crop, half summerfallow acres with a non fertilized dryland grain farm depending on rainfall just for the tractor/combine work. I should know. Last year for us, we used just over 10 gallons per acre of diesel to seed, summerfallow and harvest our crops on a half seeded, half summerfallow operation. (keep in mind it was an extremely dry year. Last year, we summerfalled twice but could do so as many as 6 times with more rain so in really wet years 10 gallons per acre could double)
These numbers I’m using are realized through practical experience with field rates of consumption on a prairie grain farm by yours truly and aren’t continuous cropping scenario’s or chem fall scenarios with machinery that is relatively efficient. In other words, with field consumption of diesel alone, its 10 to 15 gallons of diesel per acre on a half/half dryland non fertilized farm. These numbers do not include the cost of fertilizing or gas/diesel burnt by grain trucks, semi’s hauling grain to terminals, trucks and farm veichles, or large transport systems to ports or energy consumption related to machinery/parts manufacturing and food processing which would make the numbers much, much higher and we must keep in mind that some crops are much more machinery intensive such as orchards or vegetable farms but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention.
If farmers had to produce their own biodiesel just to get the wheat in the bin in the prairies and run everything on diesel, farmers would have to grow on average 12 to 15% of their seeded half/half farm to produce the biodiesel required from oil seeds (these ratios could drop to 10% if Northern farms grew canola/flax at much greater rates than the south). Continuous farming as they say, without fertilizers, is not an option except in irrigated areas so the continuous cropping would stop all together with fertilizer/fuel shortages.
So I guess in a sense, I’m disputing some of Men With Hat’s numbers. With grain farms specificially, lets go back to the 10 – 15 gallons of diesel we burn per acre to produce on average 1500 pounds of grain (20 year average is slightly higher at my farm, say 1800 pounds of wheat/durum or 30 60lb bushels to the acre). How much food energy equivalent does a person need to be healthy in one year, does a person eat the equivalent value 3 pounds of milled grain in energy/nutritional needs per day and does it really take 800 gallons of fuel to sustain food supplies for one human being? (with twinkies and considering the plastics in the packaging and food processing, it might, lol)
I guess my point is that if for some reason the world ran out of energy tomarrow and Hubbards bell curve hit the flat line at the bottom of the bell, farmers could still pull it off and feed the masses but the corporate middle man would have to be cut out of the equation in a big, big way with processing.
We’d be looking at a scenario that is much smaller in scale, not larger and much in terms of the economy and how things are valued, owned and distributed. Farming techniques, economic models, everything would have to change.
Otherwise, Men with Hats is on target with all that he has said. Farm land and land in general is on the decline, 30% of actual area in serious decline world wide. Top soils aren’t what they used to be… we are in short mining the land itself. I’d say that farmland overall has dropped in terms of nutrient rich productive land by 20% of what it was in its prime overall. And unless crop techiques change dramatically, and human population growth remains unchecked, chronic food shortages will persist world wide with the poor taking the brunt of it within 10 to 20 years unless there are population controls or a mass human dieoff from disease or war. If the world’s population hits 8 billion, its going to be a big stretch to feed them all.
These are unprecidented times and they are very sobering when one really thinks of the scale of human growth and development and where its all leading. But will get through it (you know, some).
And does it matter in terms of sweating the small stuff, the laws of the land that deal with seemingly insignifigant issues that pale in comparison to the large ones?
IT SETS A TONE! Everything matters, lets not kid ourselves.
But will the west ever get “fed up with” multi-national oil companies “telling them what is best for them and then taking their money and resources”?
BY C. B. INNES ON 06.30.08 12:14 PM
Hi C. B.,
I wanted to applaud your blast of her the other day, the fear mongering of that “he/she” troll who beats the standard drum for getting Conservatives re-elected out west. I’ve heard it here for 30 years during elections.
For some reason sheep listen, but they don’t look around. You’d think at least one conservative would have noticed that we are getting fleeced by the oil companies here in Alberta. But no, oh no, no, no, seems more sexy to blame the east. Friggin’ lying bastards would kill our country rather than admit they’ve blamed the wrong element and fallen for those tricks.
By William Dahl on 07.02.08 7:15 pm
LOL, I thought they Were rhetorical questions, William (snickers). I’ll take a crack at it upon request if you like
Call me “protectionist”. No problem. It is about time, our “government” considered protecting their electorate; their jobs; our environment, our future.
It is time to look INTO the Canadian economy, and develop our own — stop sending our jobs, wealth, and future out of the country
BY MAYBE RHINO? 07.02.08 9:49AM
Rhino,
Agreed. Anyone who tries to say that protectionist is a bad thing, is officially on the list of traitor. I just hope we don’t figure it out too late. It’s all around us for anyone to see, we are being sold – our former protective solutions are being dumped due to pressure from multi-nationals. And their boy harpie here has sped up the collapse of us by an alarming rate.
No, I guess you don’t want to do that … and prefer to conceal the Dion Liberal hidden agenda.
Thanks ….
By Harry S on 07.02.08 6:34 pm
Sadly, I see Garth has not blocked you from posting as he said he would the other day. Maybe he leaves you on to show people the attitude and mentality of the neocons. Sure helps people to vote ABC.
As usual you are mixed up Harry. It is the neocons you worship who have the hidden agenda.
At least Dion, a professor is not a lawyer or a business owner like Martin who registered his steamships outside the country he led – a real patriot. I believe Dion has a lot more integrity and honesty than some previous Liberal leaders and certainly some Conservative leaders. Maybe Lyin’ Brian was one of those Conservative leaders without integrity? Maybe Harper really did know about the bribe?
Dion has the courage to state what needs to be done when times are tough, suggest how it might be done and it is done with co-operation and compassion. Your leader is far from being co-operative or compassionate IMHO.
It just might be that the leader, Dion is setting a new paradigm for leaders in integrity, courage and forthrightness. Maybe we will begin to be able to trust politicians in the Liberal party more than the Liberal politicians of the past and of course the past Conservatives and the present neocon leader and his gang of sheeples.
It just might be that Dion is bringing us the change in governance that we have needed for a long time. Stephane Dion is the leader for the times. Hopefully he will inspire the members of his team who need it to value their integrity and honesty and make choices for the highest good and not their greed. He might even inspire some Canadians to choose for the higher good rather than their greed.
By Daryn on 07.02.08 12:19 pm
Dion is going to get a rough ride out here and rightfully so. He is attempting to put forth a policy that is going to put the screws to the west and this time we will not lay down and accept it. This is a lunatic transfer of wealth from one region to a more desired region rich in Liberal votes.
As to profanity directed toward him -that is unaccepatable- if it occurs the moron should be exposed and humiliated. If in any way something is thrown at him, the jerk should be charged with asault. As much as I disaggree with the Libs, people willing to stand and serve politically deserve respect.
By the way it was Ralph Klein who was going to let you chill in the dark.
Spencer: Are you kidding?You call a 20 minute drive to work a long commute?
Try moving to the city where you can sit in traffic for an hour or more.
And we all have kids and families.
Try talking to them about how they can help conserve. The tools are available.
And when you get the nice reduction in your income tax, and your parents receive the extra supplement, you may actually come out ahead. Plus you will be helping conserve fossil fuels.
“wealth redistribution plan that shut down the province. We were too passive at that time. It won’t happen again.”
BY JANICE 07.02.08 10:18 AM
I’ve been in Alberta for 30 years, Janice. You DO NOT speak for me.
The province – along with all the rest of the WORLD – were in the same boat. The story was amplified by Conservatives set on villainizing the east and Trudeau for their own political gain because their noses were out of joint over a national plan to help Alberta and Canada’s future. Alberta was stupid and let our OIL Companies call the shots and blackmail us – it was the oil companies who caused the damage when they carried out their threats. The corporate greed, leading to fall-out, has has worked to get the Conservatives re-elected since – yet no one seems to blame the Oil corporate greed. Corporations were mad that Canada had the nerve to try to save itself from those robber barons. Never mind the lack of democracy, the media only inflames the story, and the full truth was never told. Some people here and absolutely everywhere else KNOW there was a WORLDWIDE recession then, not just in Alberta, although the blinders were on, so maybe you didn’t hear. How come you never mention that? Only dupes and Conservative politicians keep up the effect of misleading stories. The effect of the program is debated. The western struggles can largely be blamed on the greedy actions of the province and the oil companies. After it was implemented, Canada, along with all of the economies of Europe and the economy of the U.S., fell into a worldwide recession. It would turn out to be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. Alberta, and everywhere else.
A world-wide recession, so do you suggest that the rest of the world was running around in Happy Days and Alberta was the only place that was having a recession. Are you suggesting that Alberta is the only place that was going through tough economic times then?
Here Janice, read for yourself:
“The primary cause of the recession was a contractionary monetary policy established by the Federal Reserve System to control high inflation.
The recession was not only unexpected but was the most serious recession since the Great Depression.
http://tinyurl.com/6atvtp
Leasa: Harper may not actually tax gas but when he starts fining polluters who don’t meet their targets, those companies are going to pass the costs down to the consumer.
Have you criticized Harper for daring to suggest penalties and fine for big polluters when you know the costs will trickle down in the form of higher gas prices?
Now all of you with your obfuscations and personal insults can go back to your caves in the Liberal Death Star and report back to the ‘emperor’ or whoever is pulling your strings.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 8:47 pm
Notes from the irretrievably stupid Hairy S. Moron Esq .
You are not worth debating on any level. You are,quite simply, a laughing stock just like the party you, so dementedly, shill for .
You are worthless as a human being and have the brain power of an amoeba .
Therapy is expensive, poppin’ bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.
You need a whole team of psychiatrists .
If I throw a stick, will you leave ?
Lana you are correct:
Perhaps Leasa holds the chalice from the palace and Janice has the vessel with the pestle. But I believe neither one of them has “the brew that is true”.
(How’s that for a fan of Danny Kaye?)
Brain 1:37
GO for it!!!
ctually those are simplified questions thaty I was reading in an article that the U.S. is trying to grapple with now.
seems smeone figured out that if you get too many forclosed houses then you wipe out the whole new home business along with suppliers thus pulling one of the largest sources of buying power from the stores. Of course now the credit card crunch is hitting as well.
Have fun. It will be interesting to compare answers!
That is exactly the point. Alberta has lots. Lets just take some for the rest of us.
Alberta and Sask produce 40% of the nation’s CO2. They have about 12% of the population. When the carbon tax comes in it will be $6B out of that economy for central Canada. That is almost the total Sask government budgeted revenue. Its just a little “bite”.
So, $6B out and $300M back in liberal program spending. Anyone who thinks this will fly in the west had better grab the reins and hang on. Its going to be a rough ride.
And Barbie, if you think I need anger management, you aint seen nothin yet. We already lived through a liberal wealth redistribution plan that shut down the province. We were too passive at that time. It won’t happen again.
By Janice on 07.02.08 10:18 am
Alberta has lots of what?? It ain’t oil cause that’s leaving the province as soon as it leaves the ground and the return to the province is peanuts. And the return to Albertans is non-existant. We pay taxes and that’s what is used to sustain the province, health, education and infrastructure. The QE is terrible in many places and why isn’t the Ft McMurray hiway twined, years ago even. And why am I still paying provincial income tax in “oil rich” Alberta? What Alberta has lots of is bull-shitters.
That $6b that you were told to keep on yammering about is not coming out of Alberta. It’s coming out of the oil companies who are raping Albertan for their oil and paying peanuts in return.
And Janice, there was no “liberal wealth redistribution plan that shut down the province”. You prove to us that liberal shut down the province but first you have to read this:
http://www.seeta.com/articles/bubblesarticle.htm
And how did the “first” NEP destroy the whole world oil industry, lower world oil prices? How did the NEP cause the world economic slump and world wide production to drop? How did the NEP cause the stock market to slump? How did the NEP cause the technology market to drop?
Stop allowing liars to feed you their baloney.
Can we really afford to be in Afghanistan? Canadians are on both sides of the issue of whether it is valid being there, but maybe that isn’t the question anymore.
By Lana on 07.02.08 7:15 am
We are in Afghanistan until 2011. Get over it and move on.
ROFl. It seems that Leasa has pushed some Liberals hot bottoms because they sure are attacking her.
Harper may not actually tax gas but when he starts fining polluters who don’t meet their targets, those companies are going to pass the costs down to the consumer. By Judy.
That is exactly what Turner and Dion said about the Green Shift Plan. They are not taxing gasoline but the fact is that the gas will go up as result of this plan. So what is difference?
Speak for yourself. This farmer from Saskatchewan wants no part of your western separatist divisionary anti-Canadian Harpercrite speak. Keep it to yourself.
brain on 07.02.08 10:29 pm
I`m not sure where you got the idea that I would utter even a single syllable on your behalf so there is no reason for me to keep anything to myself.
I believe Canada still has enough of a flicker of democracy left that individuals can and should have active participation in discussing ways to make Canada better. That`s a lot more Cdn than you acting like I should kneel to you or anyone else.
In case you havn`t noticed the federal government is dysfunctional. Even though it`s been that way for decades you probably didn`t notice by spending so much time composing your baffle gabble.
The next time you respond to me try leaving out the insults and the `I`m the only one that knows anything` attitude at school. Resorting to desperate measures makes your argument look flawed.
Not to worry though. As I`ve said economic conditions will force the changes required.
And when you get the nice reduction in your income tax, and your parents receive the extra supplement, you may actually come out ahead. Plus you will be helping conserve fossil fuels.
By Judy on 07.02.08 11:06 pm
Yes – what are we going to do with all that money – what 10-20 bucks a week. Why pay more for our food, heating and lighting.
Take a look at Gordon Campbell’s carbox tax. See how much people will get from their “neutral”.
http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/scp/tp/climate/A3.htm
Just an example:
Family of four: $90,000 income (one spouse earning $50,000 the other $40,000) 2008 2009
One-time Climate Action Dividend 400 –
Personal income tax cut 85 224
Carbon Tax on:
Van: 10 litres/100km fuel efficiency driving 20,000 km/year
-24 -59
Sedan: 9 litres/100km driving 15,000 km/year
-16 -40
Natural gas for heat and hot water (102.6 GJ in Lower Mainland)
-26 -64
Annual Savings $419 $61
What are they going to do with that $61?
Harry S.
Any member of the house may propose a piece of legislation – but once it is accepted for debate it becomes the property of the house, not the proposer.
The fact that the piece of legislation is vexatious is entirely beside the point. Every session passes numerous pieces of legislation, some of them downright silly, others inherently dangerous.
If this piece is so bad, why did your party’s members not argue successfully against it? Why is your party not striving to repeal it? If it really isn’t that bad, why are you harping on it?
But I believe neither one of them has “the brew that is true”.
(How’s that for a fan of Danny Kaye?)
By Judy on 07.02.08 11:24 pm
That was not only hilarious, but very clever.
So what’s the rush, M. Dion … what is your Green Shift Hidden Agenda all about .. Canadians want to know now before they vote …!!!!
By Harry S on 07.02.08 9:48 pm
And what is Harper’s plan to reduce carbon emissions? Obviously you don’t know or you wouldn’t focus so much on Dion’s plan. Below is a letter to the editor by a young, educated Canadian. As in the states, where the higher the education one has the more likely he/she will vote for the Democratic Party, and as is demonstrated daily on this blog, the least educated (or uninformed) Canadians vote Conservative.
Green Shift is solid
Re: Proposed carbon tax
The debate is over. The results are in. Global warming is a reality, regardless of political affiliations.
Keeping this in mind, I find it extremely difficult to understand the hostility towards the new Liberal Green Shift plan.
As a student currently working a summer job to help pay for already inflated tuition costs, higher taxes are something my family could do without. Unfortunately, something we can’t do without is the environment we live in.
It’s not a coincidence that the people who will be inheriting this planet (i.e. youth) seem to rank the environment as a much higher priority than those who are older. The Liberal carbon-tax plan promises to be revenue neutral, however, even if it’s not, isn’t maintaining the environment more important than saving a few dollars?
Canada should be a world leader in going green, not shying away from it. The Liberal party has presented a solid proposal for finding a workable solution to the problem of climate change.
The Conservatives, on the other hand, have not done much. I am curious to know when Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be releasing his real plan to deal with carbon emissions.
“… we are now shelling out more on the military than we did to win World War Two.”
Garth, I’d be very interested in the basis for this statement. Are you using discrete dollar amounts, per capita defence spending, or another yardstick? It strikes me as improbable.
ROFl. It seems that Leasa has pushed some Liberals hot bottoms because they sure are attacking her.
By Van on 07.03.08 1:24 am
You assume that someone who disagrees with Leasa and her tactics is a Liberal. You know what they say about the word “assume”, Van.
Calling Leasa on her dishonest tactics has nothing to do with politics.
And as for wanting us out of Afghanistan, I won’t get over it. You’re not the boss of me.
By William Laidlaw on 07.03.08 6:12 am
Oh William … don’t be so politically naive and just acknowledge that Liberal MP Rodriguez’ private bill that was passed into law with the support of the other opposition parties was just intended to embarrass the government., and it was only a political ploy and nothing more.
Now even Dion in his Green Shift admits that GHG reductions to satisfy Kyoto cannot be achieved. The GHGs piled up during the Liberal governments watch, and they even refused to make Kyoto a ‘priority’ even when then environment minister Dion presented his first ‘Green Plan’ in 2004.
I have presented Garth and the forum with two facts involving the ‘Liberal’ Kyoto compliance act and Dion’s Green Shift scheme .. and what do I get?? A roaring silence from Garth and Liberal trools uniting with vicious personal attacka in a futile attempt to discredit the painful facts I have presented. I have driven a truck over Dion’s Green Shift and exposed the ‘hidden agenda’ that it contains.
The issue is how the Kyoto compliance act is accommodated within the Green Shift … and I have obviously hit a painful nerve in the Liberal trool brigade lurking about from the Liberal Death Star and flailing in panic. Hidden agenda revealed … so obvious now..!!
By Lana on 07.03.08 8:01 am
The debate is over. The results are in. Global warming is a reality, regardless of political affiliations.
Ahhh, Lana … unfortunately, new emerging science is revealing that global temperatures have been stable for the last 10 years and a cooling trend is developing now. So this ’students’ premise is now incorrect and in fact is now propaganda when repeated with such fervour.
So-called ‘global warming’ will go down the crapper in Canada once we experience another colder winter … and even Suzuki is backpedalling on global warming now that new scientific data is coming in.
As for Dion’s Green Shift, the urgency to implement such a scheme may be mis-timed according to the article referred to in my posting at: By Harry S on 07.02.08 9:48 pm … and from that Globe and Mail article we get this revealing statement:
Mr. Dion’s confused and panic-driven Green Shift is in no way ready for the big time. He should take a few more years and get it right. Ironically, the longer we take, the better our strategy will be – as science and as economics.
The question that arises is: What’s the rush with Dion’s Green Shift … what is Dion’s hidden agenda..??!!!
By Lana on 07.03.08 7:40 am
It will be interesting to see how the Conservatives on this blog spin this one. Will Janice, Leasa, Catherine or Harry defend this latest travesty, and if so, will they do so by saying it’s okay because someone from another party did it?
Or will they use offensive tactics as a defense? As Garth says, (and I paraphrase) “smear and slash are routine (on this blog)…ideas are the enemy of tactics…intimidation, bullying, belittling, misinformation, distortion and deceit are okay..It’s on this blog every hour of every day.
………………………………………………………………..
I challenge you to show how I fit into that description. Where on this or the previous topic thread, where I have posted several significant comments, can you justify labeling me as such?
If you want to read scurrilous forum calumny try this on for size:
Notes from the irretrievably stupid Hairy S. Moron Esq .
You are not worth debating on any level. You are,quite simply, a laughing stock just like the party you, so dementedly, shill for .
You are worthless as a human being and have the brain power of an amoeba .
Therapy is expensive, poppin’ bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.
You need a whole team of psychiatrists .
If I throw a stick, will you leave ?
By Men With Hats on 07.02.08 11:21 pm
…………………………………………
If I was as you describe, I’m sure our MP Garth would disapprove ….. and he even tolerates scum like MWH …!!!
The question that arises is: What’s the rush with Dion’s Green Shift … what is Dion’s hidden agenda..??!!!
By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:39 am
That’s easy Harry. Boot the Harper government right out to kingdom-come.
Cheers
I don’t know if you’ve ever read Nevil Shute’s 1957 book “On The Beach”, but that opening précis of yours really reminded me of it (movie was good too, Gregory Peck always delivers, but it missed important details and subtleties that only come out in the text). The catalyst for war was almost an afterthought, minor skirmish escalating to deadly consequences, very bleak but believable. I can’t say that I agree with you on that particular detail coming to the fore, but do agree that the population growth and its inherent consumption of resources on this planet is unsustainable and will destine us to troubled times.
I encountered the zenith of gagetary laziness just this past week. There, alongside the magazines, lighters, batteries and other last minute items that greets you as you approach the cashier’s counter in Zellers were several boxes of Tim Horton’s coffee cup rim rollers, about $3 each. I guess it’s too difficult or uncouth for some to use their teeth to roll up the rim to see if a prize awaits.
I’d like to make a correction and a suggestion. First, I believe it was Ralph Klein who made the “Eastern bastards” comment, its counterpart being the “bums and creeps” statement while he was Calgary’s mayor. Lougheed was/is way more a gentleman and thoughful person than Klein could ever be, even if you don’t agree with some or all of his positions. While I find little appeal in Klein, I do have to give him this: after making his stupid statement, he appeared on stage at the Maritime Reunion Association Annual Lobster Picnic out Canmore way and faced the consequent music.
As for your Saskatchewan and Alberta travel plans, please bare in mind that like every other province in this country, save Alberta, Saskatchewan regularly cycles its provincial governments, the last being a change from NDP just this past year. Only Alberta has had but 4 governing parties over the past century, each serving decades-long stretches and being conservative based. The epitome of being “provincial”. The reason Alberta-based western separatists are lumping Saskatchewan into the mix is likely more one of looking for backup to bolster the posturing rather than a reflection of reality.
Now if you still insist on bypassing Alberta in your travels, I suggest that you head south and cross the border into the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana. Lots of good scenery there, Mount Rushmore, the Devil’s Tower (of Close Encounters fame), the stunning Grand Tetons, magical Yellowstone, Louis and Clark caverns, dazzling Glacier Park. You could cross over into B.C. into the Kootenay range and Kaslo, a very beautiful area. Or you could change your mind and visit the prettiest of the Alberta mountain parks, Waterton in the southwest corner, then head immediately west into BC at Fernie.
By Harry S on 07.02.08 12:38 am
By Harry S on 07.02.08 10:34 am
By Harry S on 07.02.08 1:22 pm
By Harry S on 07.02.08 3:53 pm
By Harry S on 07.02.08 8:47 pm
By Harry S on 07.02.08 9:31 pm
By Harry S on 07.02.08 9:48 pm
By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:05 am
By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:39 am
I have posted these 9 substantial comments on the issue of Dion Green Shift and Rodriguez’ Kyoto compliance act … and I still have not seen or heard anything of substance to refute my analysis and position.
Will or won’t a Dion Liberal government comply 100% with Kyoto as set out in bill C-288 and now the law of the land … and how do the statements in Dion’s Green Shift policy proposals reconcile with that act and Kyoto??
Simple questions that could be easily resolve by MP Garth … but he is silent and only you Liberal Death Star operatives come to his rescue with your diversionary tactics to defeat rational discussion. What do you Liberals have to hide from Canadians … what is Dion’s hidden agenda on Kyoto … Canadians want to know now before they vote ….!!!!
Global Warming as Mass Neurosis
BRET STEPHENS – The Wall Street Journal – July 1, 2008
Last week marked the 20th anniversary of the mass hysteria phenomenon known as global warming. Much of the science has since been discredited. Now it’s time for political scientists, theologians and psychiatrists to weigh in.
What, discredited? Thousands of scientists insist otherwise, none more noisily than NASA’s Jim Hansen, who first banged the gong with his June 23, 1988, congressional testimony (delivered with all the modesty of “99% confidence”).
But mother nature has opinions of her own. NASA now begrudgingly confirms that the hottest year on record in the continental 48 was not 1998, as previously believed, but 1934, and that six of the 10 hottest years since 1880 antedate 1954. Data from 3,000 scientific robots in the world’s oceans show there has been slight cooling in the past five years, never mind that “80% to 90% of global warming involves heating up ocean waters,” according to a report by NPR’s Richard Harris.
The Arctic ice cap may be thinning, but the extent of Antarctic sea ice has been expanding for years. At least as of February, last winter was the Northern Hemisphere’s coldest in decades. In May, German climate modelers reported in the journal Nature that global warming is due for a decade-long vacation. But be not not-afraid, added the modelers: The inexorable march to apocalypse resumes in 2020.
This last item is, of course, a forecast, not an empirical observation. But it raises a useful question: If even slight global cooling remains evidence of global warming, what isn’t evidence of global warming? What we have here is a nonfalsifiable hypothesis, logically indistinguishable from claims for the existence of God. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist, or that global warming isn’t happening. It does mean it isn’t science.
So let’s stop fussing about the interpretation of ice core samples from the South Pole and temperature readings in the troposphere. The real place where discussions of global warming belong is in the realm of belief, and particularly the motives for belief. I see three mutually compatible explanations.
More at:
http://online.wsj.com/article/global_view.html
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.03.08 1:53 am
“I`m not sure where you got the idea that I would utter even a single syllable on your behalf so there is no reason for me to keep anything to myself.” – Buddy can you spare a dime
Try this, bozo.
“We`ve tried to educate you easterners but failing that we`ll just have to part company with our uneducated brothers and sisters in the east.” – Buddy can you spare a dime
I’m from the west too. Get it?
By buddy, spare a dime? on 07.02.08 6:40 pm
“I believe Canada still has enough of a flicker of democracy left that individuals can and should have active participation in discussing ways to make Canada better.” – Buddy can you spare a dime
Save the Eastern canadian putdowns from what is to me obvious Western separatist talk and you might come across as more sincere. Until then, I ain’t desparate and if you don’t like tasting what you dish out, I don’t care. Kiss my ass.
“It is time to look INTO the Canadian economy, and develop our own. It is well past the time we stopped sending our jobs, wealth, and future out of the country.
By maybe Rhino? on 07.02.08 9:49 am”
Do you see what I see?………Do you hear what I hear?
Bang on Rhino, finally somebody gets it.
Giving 6 months notice (required) to Mexico and the U.S. that we’re getting out of this N.A.F.T.A. would be a good start! All those Canadians who signed that document should be put in jail for high treason!!! THEY SOLD US OUT!!!
Kiss my ass.
By brain on 07.04.08 1:40 am
Too bad you`re not capable of addressing the points I brought up to the eastern poster I responded to so here`s the lowdown for those that are ignoring your bad behavior.
How much of a brain does it take to figure out the federa;l government used the NEP, GST and then intentionally devaluing the dollar with the 1995 referendum to keep Ontario in the forefront as the economic engine of Canada? It appears brain missed the point of the post completely.
Ontario is in the shape it`s in, which is totally screwed, because of the actions of the federal government over the last 40 years.
Seems no one listened when I refuted Garths argument last spring that it would be inflation and not rising interest rates that kills our economy. You didn`t listen when I said last August the September numbers would tell us what we need to know and when they came out I said, “cash is good”.
Has everyone noticed that all this partisan bashing isn`t moving the polls. None of the above would hit a majority if it were including in the questions which is why the government bought and paid for media won`t include that question.
brain, everyone has a brain including the truly ignorant, you can tell who`s who by extent of the dumb bashing so don`t let your handle over inflate your ego.
Unlike the `experts` that comment of these issues I have no vested interest in the outcome other that a better Canada for future generations so I wonder what brings on your attempt to silence anyone pointing this out to the masses. Your partisan troll tactics in attempting to silence anyone informing the public of these valid points says you have a vested interest in keeping this dysfunctional government going for another generation. I`d call that desperate even if you don`t think you are.
I`ve said this before and you really should listen, the only way to save Canada is to get rid of the federal government, short of that the west will separate.
no justice, no investment
economic conditions will force the changes required
plant a garden, it`s going to get a whole lot worse unless there`s some major changes before economic conditions hit the tipping point.
Kiss my ass.
By brain on 07.04.08 1:40 am
I know of several people that follow your posts. They are all capable of serious and informative debate but refrain from posting because of the personal attacks and or off topic insulting replies. I don`t belive the debate on your blog has moved a single vote to the Liberal side. As I`ve said no one can deny the intent and potential value to the public of blogging with an MP but unless you get serious about reigning in the ludicrous insults that predominate the posts. I don`t believe the effort you afford this blog is anything close to its potential value that could be attained. I`ll state it again, I don`t believe the effort has afforded a single person to switch over as the polls prove.
In that respect you could add much to the value by refraining from the ever constant electioneering. The statement that you had a plan that would give us hope and Dion`s plan would not only save the environment but the economy goes even beyond what one could expect with another election type promise.
Canada has some very serious problems that elections promises won`t fix. Internationally our situation nationally could easily be compared with peak oil. We have a one horse economy that`s on it`s last legs. Global demand for raw resources with every indication it will continue to fall with results from at least a serious recession to a catastrophic collapse of our overall economy.
Nationally we have some very troubled youth. The latest crime statistics from the base cause, Vancouver BC, has mischief rates up 38% over last year. This is the generation I`ve been speaking of as just old enough to start flooding out onto the streets. Soon seniors will out number our youth. We leave them to restore order to our society, restore order to the global climate, all as they watch the last of the ice melt at the poles. Do you think they will respond by stepping up to the plate or give us boomers the True Dough wave?
With all due respect to the effort you spend blogging it`s time you dropped the election promises and got serious about the shit that`s hitting the fan.
Just saying it`s your blog to turn into your previously stated intention of having us here.
oops, my previous post was addressed to Garth Turner, MP. and not bran which is there just to illustrate the situation.
De la connerie pure, du vent, quelle bande d’insignifiants ces Liberaux.. La polythique est devenu un vrai spectacle de clowns au Canada en 2008….
Si vous détesté les souverainistes à ce point, c’est que vous n’avez certainement pas une âme Québecoise, et je suis d’autant plus fière de ne pas me considérer canadienne mais québecoise. Nous ne sommes pas méchant mais plutôt intelligent de ne pas s’associez à des gens comme vous qui s’attaquent à un peuple beaucoup plus fort que vous le croyez. Maintenant vous ne pourrez sûrement pas lire mon message et que c’est donc dommage!!!Vive le Québec libre!!!
Harry,
I think I love you……
Garth…I think you and Dave Suzuki are lovers.
[...] His current blog post sums up what is on the horizon. [...]