Does this man look too busy to debate?
Why won’t Stephen Harper debate Stephane Dion on Friday in Calgary?
After all, the prime minister will have had two days to prepare his arguments, in both officials languages (“il vissera chacun à travers le pays”), he’ll be in Cowtown for two days, and he’s got the hometown advantage. They can square off at the pancake breakfast, or the Chuckwagon race, or maybe posing with the spokesmodels at the F-150 display.
Rather than saying the Green Shift will “screw everybody across the country,” and have Jason Kenney spew lines about the ancient National Energy Program, this would be a chance for both leaders to clearly articulate their opposing views. Mr. Harper’s plan, called “Turning the Corner” has stated that it will cause energy prices for consumers to rise, but without an income tax reduction to offset it. The Conservative plan is based on intensity, while the Liberal plan is a tax on every ton of carbon that industry emits. Conservatives have endorsed the concept of cap and trade, but just not now. The Libs are not far off that position. The government’s plan would have results in 2020, while the Liberal plan would affect carbon dumping almost immediately.
Most dramatically, the Conservatives say the Liberal plan would cost consumers, hobble the economy and be unfair to the West. The Libs say the Con plan is a sham since it will have almost no environmental impact, end up making all energy more expensive, do nothing to help consumers cope or assist businesses to go green.
Meanwhile Canadians are freaked out about gas prices, worried about economic slowdown and think governments are doing nothing about the future of the planet. In other words, what would be better to crystallize positions and help us all understand the problem and the solutions, than a debate?
But, sadly, ain’t gonna happen. The prime minister will not play. This is either because (a) he knows he will lose because his plan sucks, or (b) he does not want to give the leader of the opposition equal footing with Himself, or (c) too many pancakes will die, or (d) he feels sorry for the skinny guy, or (f) it’s just a lot easier to say “this will screw everybody.”
As for Dion, he will move from Calgary to Edmonton, where he’s to have an open, Town Hall meeting on his climate change plan. You might not agree with everything the man says, but you have to admire this about him. He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.
Not that there are any similarities.
260 comments ↓
Harper is quick to sue Stephane Dion, but not so quick to debate him.
This is Harper’s idea of a democracy.
Harper will kill Dion in a debate. Dion should be careful. He might get what he’s wishing for.
Garth,
Is Mr. Dion getting his debate strategy from Senator Clinton? It really comes off as looking desperate.
Mr. Dion just needs to travel the country revealing the truth about climate change and giving the public the details of the Liberal Green Shift plan. We don’t need much convincing to kick Harper out of office.
I’m betting on reasons (a) and (d)! But wait until the “brand new Harper PMO” team comes on stream – you may see an attempt to outflank Dion with an even more aggressive green plan than the Liberals’. [Kinda doubt it somehow, however.] At the moment, the silence [and spin] are deafening!
Gee, there appear to be no con trolls that have oisted yet. I wonder if I could somehow claim a commission from the con party. Nah, my comment isn’t an attack Dion one. I don’t need the $1.00 commission. Hope they’re declaring their remunerations when they file their returns. LOL
I pick door number “d”. What say you Canada?
How come almost every day in the newspaper it has a picture of Dion with a goofy backpack on his back? Could you explain that please.
Hey Garth.
I didn’t need a carbon tax to make me purchase tiny subcompact car
I didn’t need a carbon tax to push me to buy wind power for my condo
I didn’t need a carbon tax to put new appliances in my kitchen that were energy savers.
I didn’t need a carbon tax to replace my computers with flat panel monitors
I didn’t need a carbon tax to NOT use air conditioning in the summer
I didn’t need a carbon tax when I chose to live in urban Calgary so I could walk every (work aside, drive 300kms a month).
I didn’t require a carbon tax to make ALL those environmentally sound decisions. I did it because I believed it was right and because it saved me money.
If you want a real carbon tax Garth, do two things
1. tax gasoline
2. tax the suburbs. The suburban lifestyle is a HUGE contributor to the carbon footprint in North America. Compare us to Europe
Tax the suburbs.
It’s amazing that Harper, the big yapper, won’t meet and debate Dion in Calgary.
Maybe the bully has finally run out of gas!
Hooray for Dion.
Did Dion offer a place, date and time for the debate in Calgary, with Harper?
Cool, very, very cool!
“. . . a chance for both leaders to clearly articulate their opposing views. . . .”
One small problem — Dion DOES have a plan, harpo DOESN’T, so how would the debate be held?
It won’t, because harpo needs all of his minions to speak for him — mono-et-mono won’t allow this.
“. . . the Conservatives say the Liberal plan would cost consumers, hobble the economy . . .”
The economy started slowing when CRAP took over, and now it’s zooming downhill.
Utilities are roaring skyward, fuel and food costs continue to accelerate with no end in sight.
I really don’t see how CRAP can lay the blame on someone else, when their own tax-and-spend policies have led us to where Canada is now.
As much as Sandy and I chose to vote Green since Lyin’ Brian, we will vote Libs. now, as both of — along with many others — see the damage that CRAP has inflicted on Canada.
I suppose if harpo had garnered a majority a few years ago, he would have almost dismantled this country by now, so he would be correct — none of us would recognize this place anymore.
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That is why women shun him. And now they are shunning him even more. . . .
Judy, 9:32 pm
Hello Judy.
More to the point, this will be why a lot of people of both sexes, especially IT investors will show up to vote harpo and CRAP out of office altogether.
Won’t happen for a while, but it will happen; harpo’s grandstanding is nothing more than idle, worthless chatter.
Garth, does Parliament have an environment committee, like they have finance committees and such? That would be a good place to start to make some sort of environmental plan I would think. All this B.S. of differing plans from 4 different parties is acheiving nothing, so unless we want to keep trying to work in a system that is acheiving nothing, it might be worth a look.
I really hope that Mr.Dion does not wear cowboy boots to the stampede! I think that the closest he has gotten to a cow is when using the washroom at a dairy queen.
Mr. Harper’s plan, called “Turning the Corner” posted by Garth Turner on 07.03.08 @ 9:42 pm
Harper’s plan would be better called ‘and into the ditch’
Harper’s thumb twiddling on everything from the economy, greatly needed new personal income tax reductions to the environment all point to a guy that has us on a path to nowhere.
Harper is quick to sue Stephane Dion, but not so quick to debate him.
This is Harper’s idea of a democracy.
By Brent Fullard on 07.03.08 9:47 pm
Damn it Brent, you were the first to post
There goes the $1.00 commission for Leasa/Catherine/Sheila or Harry.
Ah well – their jobs were going down the tubes anyway – Stevie just outsourced them to the Columbians at 10 cents per attack post.
Mr. Garth TurnerMP, ?
How might someone buy one of the green baseball hats, with ‘the Green Shift’ on them?
(Any idea on were the hats were made?)
The addition of a small red maple leaf could add a nice splash of red to the hat, or a small Canadian flag (pin?),
if they’re ordering more.
Any plans to sell t-shirt with ‘the green Shift’ on then?
Additional information about the plan
could be included, to help get the massage out.
The message of reduce taxes on your income that will be equill or greater that the added cost the carbon tax may add to stuff. Putting a cost on carbon
will really help to stimulate change in how and were we get energy to do all the stuff we do in the future, I hope.
Thankyou in advance.
How come almost every day in the newspaper it has a picture of Dion with a goofy backpack on his back? Could you explain that please.
By gary v on 07.03.08 10:24 pm
How dare the man carry a backpack and not a briefcase YARG! Why can’t he just conform and have no personality like our current fearful leader?!
Damn you Dion and your quirky ways!
It’s not the responsibility of the Prime Minister, regardless of the party he/she belongs to, to debate every hair brained idea an opposition leader has. The opposition isn’t the government, and it’s the government that sets the country’s policy. And thus any policy proposals the opposition has are rightfully to be debated on the campaign trail. If your leader wasn’t such a chicken $hit he could have brought down the government many times and had his debate.
Did Jean Chretien run around debating Preston Manning one on one? I think not. And rightfully so.
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.03.08 11:09 pm
Greg W. I really admire your persistent attitide. I have watched some of the videos you have posted. KEEP ON KEEPING ON.
Don’t worry Garth, there will be lots of opportunities for your leader to have his ass handed to him in a debate during the upcoming election in the fall of 2009. I only mention that timeframe because with the current Liberal cowardace of big talk and no action, I suspect Harper’s term will run full length.
Garth, glad you corrected your first sentence. Our fingers are sometimes faster than our brains.
.
I woke up an hour ago & couldn’t get back to sleep.
There is no way that Dion didn’t have this complicated tax scheme hatched mere weeks ago. If Dion was really serious about a debate on the issue, he could have introduced his plan the exact same way he did outside of Parliament in the media while Parliament was in session and challenged the government with a simple confidence motion, saying that he and the Liberals didn’t believe the government was doing a good enough job on the environment. Then during an election campaign, he could have debated the issue when people were more likley to pay attention.
But no, he waited until the very end when summer approached, with no intention of trying to make that happen. Coincidental? More like typical.
Dion and the Liberals choose to use their time to browbeat “scandals” that never went anywhere. With the time they did have, Dion and the Liberals abandoned their beloved Kyoto during the Throne Speech. Dion has more than had his chance to have a serious debate. This talk about a debate now is obviously a ploy by a desperate Opposition Leader that realizes that this is his last gasp.
Obviously, Dion wasn’t really serious then about debate when the chips were on the table. Only when its safe does Dion suddenly and conveniently find time for a debate. No wonder Harper won’t take Dion seriously when he suddenly demands a debate now.
Hey Garth.
I didn’t need a carbon tax to make me purchase tiny subcompact car
I didn’t need a carbon tax to push me to buy wind power for my condo
I didn’t need a carbon tax to put new appliances in my kitchen that were energy savers.
I didn’t need a carbon tax to replace my computers with flat panel monitors
I didn’t need a carbon tax to NOT use air conditioning in the summer
I didn’t need a carbon tax when I chose to live in urban Calgary so I could walk every (work aside, drive 300kms a month).
I didn’t require a carbon tax to make ALL those environmentally sound decisions. I did it because I believed it was right and because it saved me money.
If you want a real carbon tax Garth, do two things
1. tax gasoline
2. tax the suburbs. The suburban lifestyle is a HUGE contributor to the carbon footprint in North America. Compare us to Europe
Tax the suburbs.
By Irvine on 07.03.08 10:27 pm
And what? You want a medal? If EVERYONE did what you did, things would not be the way they are now kiddo. We need a national plan BECAUSE people choose to do nothing, or put off changing their ways.
It’s a pretty simple concept, that amazes me how very little cons seem to get. A national plan is required because as individual Canadians, we have failed. Is the Green Shift plan the be all, end all? No, probably not. But at least it’s a VIABLE, SUSTAINABLE plan that can help us get to where we need to be.
Namely a cleaner, less oil reliant country/world.
You know, so often I see the cons come on here and spew their messages, claiming it is Garth and the Liberal party that is selling the doom and gloom. But it’s not, they are the ones telling it like it is. They are the ones willing to say the things we don’t want to hear, they are willing to make the changes necessary for our future. That isn’t doom and gloom, that’s called leadership, responsibility and COURAGE. The ones willing to stand up for their convictions.
Why any Canadian is willing to settle for do nothing cons when they can have a do SOMETHING Liberal party is beyond me. I’ll take the reality pill over the “Don’t worry, Canada is in greeeeeeaaaaaaat shape!” bullshit from con HQ.
Things need to change. And now. Let’s hope the rest of Canada gets on the reality train soon.
Oh and kudos to Mr. Dion for going into the Lions den (Alberta). Any Liberal leader willing to walk into that regressive con only province must have balls of steel. Bravo.
Kind of O/T but illustrating that there IS active resistance to the Con borg plan of assimilate or die:
From the Windsor Star on the press release of Jeff Watson, Con MP on his condemnation of Morgentaler and his bid to make the Governor General reverse the decision to award him Order of Canada.
“Lucie Caron, from the office of the secretary to the governor general, said the award to Morgentaler will proceed despite calls from Watson and others like Catholic Bishop of London Ronald Fabbro that the decision be reversed.”
Way to go, GG Jean!
What is Harper and his Crude going to do now? Fire the GG?
And these Con bots wonder why women just don’t like Stephen Harper.
Questions for M. Dion in Calgary:
1. Exactly why does Canada need a ‘carbon tax’?
2. How much GHGs must Canadians reduce per year under your Green Shift and over the 4 years of your plan?
3. Must Canada comply with our 2012 Kyoto GHG targets?
4. How will your Green Shift ensure Canada will meet it’s 2012 Kyoto GHG targets?
5. Why do you say in your Green Shift that “Canada won’t meet it’s obligations under the first phase or the Kyoto Protocol”?
6. What would a Dion Liberal government do if Canada can’t meet it’s 2012 Kyoto GHG targets?
7. If after spending the summer touring Canada to sell your Green Shift your personal popularity and Liberal party polling does not exceed that of the Conservative party will you conclude that Canadians reject your Green Shift, and will you then resign as Liberal leader?
Sorry, forgot the link
http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=1ff887e0-5cdf-4bca-8cba-208c3dcba593
If there is to be no debate, can we have a fist fight betwixt The Pointy Nosed Belly and Ken Dryden?
Outgunned,out manned,and out classed .
Harpo is a big fat zero .
Glad you con-bot morons love this asshole so much .
When the election is done so is he .
Enjoy it while you can losers !
A debate to my mind requires two individuals of equal intelligence .
Hatpo just doesn’t cut it in the brains department .
Or, maybe it’s because he’s just too busy trying to find where the Liberals have stashed his ‘misappropriated’ personality.
…that cowboy dude shot still cracks me up every time I see it.
A debate to my mind requires two individuals of equal intelligence .
Harpo just doesn’t cut it in the brains department .
Maybe this is a good reason for the food hikes. Comments courtesy WRH.com.
“This report, which everyone in the US and the world should be reading, “…has not been published to avoid embarrassing President George Bush”.
“These policies favoring biofuel production are causing people to die.
“The World Bank should be less concerned with ‘embarrassing Bush’ than they should be with telling the truth straight up, period, end of discussion.”
http://tinyurl.com/6e3tew
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And the (foreclosure) beat gets bigger and bigger, and goes on and on . . .
http://tinyurl.com/6g65gh
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If I had still been in the workforce, this would have been nice! (Head + subhead, no link).
“Utah goes to 4-day workweek to save energy
“Starting next month, thousands of government employees will only work 4 days per week, in an effort aimed at reducing energy costs and commuters’ gasoline expenses.”
You go Stephane!!!! Yahoo!!
Garth,
Your ask, “Does this man look too busy to debate?”
Many, many, many, many, many, many people across this lovely country wanted your leader Dion, you and your party to show up in the H of C to vote on many, many, many VERY important issues over the past year or so. Where were you all??? Why is is just fine for you Libs to collect your FAT paychecks for all that time while not showing up to do your job, yet whine that someone doesn’t want to show up for a debate during summer recess at the time you select. Give your head a shake man before you wtite crap like this!!!
Hi Garth & Greg W.
It is unfortunate that our prime Minister has supported the fellow mentioned in this link.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd372.htm
Mr. Turner
With one simple sentence,”I guess he can do it again in Alberta.”, you once again confirm the Liberals have written off the west as nit wits compared to you “cultured” Ontario types. It was precisely that elitist attitude that sent me back west after my U of T years, where people are less full of their own self-importance. Honestly, Mr Turner, you are a member of our government house, so at least treat Canadians with some respect. Say what you will of your political opponent Harper, (within reason and no criminal allegations).
Sorry, I’m the only conservative “troll” awake at this hour, all the others are snug in their warm beds. Why Harper won’t debate? 1. When Harper does debate Dion, during the next election, you will see the difference, not only in ability to debate, but in command of the field and intellectual power as well, in both languages. Dion is a wannabe intellectual by comparison. 2. Why is Dion so desperate to debate Harper? Because it will draw some attention to his plan, which most Canadians have read and now are dismissing as wrong-headed. Harper would only give it some credence by debating it. The greatest insult to you Liberals is that the Prim Minister does not deem it worthy of his valuable time. Dion needs the publicity because so few are turning out to hear him. 3. Dion, and all of you Liberals, realize he is loosing this battle. The Clinton analogy is apt here. 4. Why should Harper debate when Dion is busy sinking the good ship Liberal all by himself. When the field has been cleared of useless alternatives, then an appropriate energy policy worth debating will be put forth, and it will be a winner.
The answer is simple, politics.
Why would Harper allow Dion to set the agenda?
Vote on a confidence motion and Dion will get his debate in both languages.
(c) too many pancakes will die
Well Garth, why doesn’t you leader, Stephane Dion, actually go and speak with those that will be impacted by this Green Shaft Carbon Tax, instead of speaking with Liberal party lemmings?
Oh, to Stephane Dion, those people are not true Canadians!
– Garth
By Marc on 07.03.08 10:56 pm
Yup, Garth, this is really grown-up and respectful of you. You are desperate.
Ah well – their jobs were going down the tubes anyway – Stevie just outsourced them to the Columbians at 10 cents per attack post.
By kpn on 07.03.08 11:00 pm
Grow up! But, I think you can never. Your mind has been corrupted by the Liberals.
Ah well – their jobs were going down the tubes anyway – Stevie just outsourced them to the Columbians at 10 cents per attack post.
By kpn on 07.03.08 11:00 pm
WHO FARC-ED?
How might someone buy one of the green baseball hats, with ‘the Green Shift’ on them? The addition of a small red maple leaf could add a nice splash of red to the hat, or a small Canadian flag (pin?), if they’re ordering more.
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.03.08 11:09 pm
What a great idea, Greg! It could even be a fundraiser – not for the Party, which would seem crass – but for something like the Trans Canada Trail system. What do you say Garth?
By William Dahl on 07.02.08 8:57 am
“The federal government deliberately understating inflation rates over the last decade to keep wages low and not have to increase federal assistence checks. Also the feds allowed almost all of our largest businesses to be bought out by foreign interests.” – William
Yeah… these are big points you are making William.
Question #1:
“First whose fault is it when banks allow someone to take out a mortgage like the one in your post last week that doesn’t meet the old standards for down payment and carrying costs used for generations up till recently?” – William
To me, the blame is shared evenly through everyone involved from the banks/brokers who lend money to high risk borrowers (people who’s morgage debt service is over 30% of combined income) to to the government who looks the other way with loose banking regs (in Canada’s case, 40 year amortizations with 1.5% down thanks to Harper’s Flarehty), to the realtor who’s only interest is making money on the deal and doesn’t care if the buyer/seller gets hosed other than maybe flipping the place if it goes bankrupt for another commission, to the buyer itself as the old adage goes, buyer beware and yes, it extends even to the seller who actually should care about whether or not the buyer is going to get hosed. (don’t know about you all, but I’m not going to sell a $500 dollar beater to someone for 10 G’s here, I’m going to sell it for what its truly worth. I believe that all sellers have a responsibility to their buyer whether they want to acknowledge it or not. “Be your brothers keeper, look out for your neighbor”, what is screwing this world is self interests and do I practice this discipline with all that I sell including stocks? The answer is yes. But then I could just talk shit to make myself look good, lol)
Plenty of blame to go around on that one William but I’d say it begins with the feds and banks primarily as they are the ones that pass the laws and policies that define how the system is run. And can names be put to the blame game if governments and banks are the guards that opened the gates to a real estate greed frenzy bubble and subsequent real estate led recessionary crash?
The answer is YES!!! Names can be thrown around. With the subprime mess, one needs look no farther than the Republican congress of 2001 on up and that includes Bush/Cheney, advisors, the works. It would be exhaustive I think to compile the list of those exclusively responsible in the whitehouse/congress and banking industry, but not impossible (if someone wants to write that best seller, knock themselves out) and many of the key names are still in the same or similar positions of authority. But from there… it comes down to the people that put those who are responsible in these positions of power and the responsibility lies with the voters (and those who influence them, media, campaign organizers, the works) and in the banking industry, its the major shareholders themselves. You know… the rich. But other than the degree’s of responsibility/accountability, the vast majority of us are responsible in some way, even if its as mere eligable voters for major breakdowns in the system such as a real estate led recession like the one we are seeing in the U.S. and what could happen here as well.
“Whose fault is it if a person cannot pay the bills on 7 maxed out credit cards, the person or the 6 companies that issued cards after they maxed the first one?” – William
Personally, I’d say its the fault of the credit card issuers who knew beforehand that the first one was maxed and overdue. Its a red flag credit card issuers themselves ignored with their own protocols so I don’t feel sorry for credit card companies who lose out, but lets face it, some blame lies with the credit card holder that spends beyond their means.
I saw a documentary on credit card holders… they interviewed families who lost a loved one to suicide from maxed credit. The one story, the story of a young woman that went to college, one of prestigious nature but with a family that didn’t have the financial background to fit the college name and the college student racked up 7 cards to the limit and eventually committed suicide, that bothered me. And why did the credit card companies issue her cards knowing others were maxed out? The name of the college she went to was enough.
Sobering.
“Todays closing of those Starbuck stores brings up the difference between todays companies and those a century ago. In the last depression Ford, Woolworth and Kressge among others had a personal interest in keeping their businesses going while today most businesses are run by groups of investers with no idea of what the business does or needs to do to survive but are only interested in how many profts can be sucked out. So the question is, how do we deal with businesses that will shut down if profits drop let alone whether it is profitable now or in the future?” – William
I assume you mean the outsourcing of manufacturing across borders or overseas by corporations who see a drop in profit (cause thats all that it takes for the greeders to consider the move).
The answer is governmental. It will take laws/legislation that forces corporations to manufacture goods in the nation they file tax returns to, its as simple as that. If they are manufacturers of manufactured goods, they manufacture their products in the nation they pay taxes to.
The idea is not knew and its in a big way protectionist and it would be an impossible sell to corporations in the manufacturing sector. I don’t see U.S. multinationals going for something like that without putting up a major fight (the lobbying would be so strong…).
But I think… In the face of a recession… assuming that a president or congress, key people don’t get assassinated, its possible with the right people saying and doing the right things for the right reasons. I think as long as corps dealing with commodities aren’t involved and its just manufacturers legislated to manufacture everything on their own homeland, its doable but only with the support of the financials… and I think they might even be ready to listen.
There’s only two ways out for the U.S. recession at this point. The first is misery and completely bottomed valuations, so bad that eventually it will have nowhere to go but up and americans will still consume so they will consume something and some industry will survive… (you know, some) but as long as the systemic problems aren’t dealt with and the U.S. continues to run trade deficits, their currency will over time become seriously devalued and thats not good considering they are a nation that spends so much dough on military buildup and possess nukes but I’m getting off topic, here.
Economically, any real recovery will only be temporary until they fix their systemic problems and that means a major reduction in defense spending (which the defense corps will never go for), strict MPG regs on autos (which the auto manufacturers seem more intent on bankruptcy than building effecient cars, but then, its the energy corps that won’t go for it which explains why the auto industry is such as mess as energy has dictated such nutty oil burning policies) rebuilding their manufacturing base (its the only recourse with a collapsed currency anyways) and this means protectionist legislation that is in every way, workers first, pro labour, pro environment and in the wake of a possible currency crisis, a recession and shaky financials, I think the opportunity is there, but…
There’s so much corruption in government.
Its never just one thing, William. Sure, its government and corporate lobbyists, but what it really boils down to is human nature. Humans are just so… flawed. So easily bought, so self interested, caught in our own individual paragdigms… the ugly wake of the damage we are leaving on this planet, to each other, to our own selves…
I’m trying to have some fun here, William, I’m trying, (chuckles) but these are SERIOUS questions here and the answers are ugly.
I believe we both know the sytemic flaws and blockers in the way to accomplishing goal, the goal of reversing the U.S. recession back into prosperity again. Corporate lobbyists in congress and the whitehouse, as well as in provincial governments and on the hill are so in bed with politicians (especially so in the U.S., leadership within the Conservative party of Canada and certain provinces, namely BC, Alta and Sask) that it will take a complete removal of corrupt (defined as self serving) politicians to get it done.
The electorate needs to learn in a big way that the corporate agenda of Greed, larger market share, development/expansion is seldom what is best for the electorate itself.
IN a way, you touched on it. The Henry Fords of the world had a vision, a dream and the dream was to help people get from A to B. To help people sure, self gain was a part of it and family… and ego strokes and the trappings of individuality and all that came into play but with Henry Ford, he had a vision. A dream and it was to help people. Get them employed. Get them from A to B without breaking down 10 times per trip. He was visionary, had a vision. And when one looks at the markets, at capitalism, who can deny what has flourished from capitalism? The internet, mass transit, well, outside of mass prayer, mass everything! And the idea of shares… to have a share in a vision, an idea, a dream…
But holding a stake has its responsibilities. Shareholders have either forgotten this, or were so blinded by greed and self ownership, they forgot what comes with all that “ownership”. What for example, has Henry Ford been accountable for? What does he own now besides a plot in a cemetary? Try being one of the founding fathers of global warming. Thats what mass production of the piston powered motor has done and it would have happened without him, true, but… he didn’t help. Could he have gone another way? If Henry Ford knew the real global threat of climate change, would he have altered his vision?
Here’s a question for you, William. Will you recognize the words you are about to read?
“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” – guess who
People need to be reminded again of just what the american dream really is… (and here it is, folks, because a good deal of commentors have truly forgotten it in spades). The american dream is one of EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and amid a present government that is run by a controlling U.S. multinational led corporate lobbyist who wants everything to be “pay as you go”, the words quoted above kind of say it all as to what the masses should be thinking and doing.
We have corporations being used as mercenaries for oil/resource wars in the middle east that are fought primarily for corporate interests. GWB? Carlyle/Morgan Kindle. Dick Cheney? Haliburton. Condi Rice? Chevron (she’s a director). Rumsfelt? (Nutrisweet/fake sugar and thats the tip of it). Tony Blair? James Baker? Carlyle/Morgan Kindle. Oil traded in U.S. currency? Chase Manhattan. My point is simple… the new oligarchies, the new concentration of wealth and power bestowed to corporate directors must change to elected officials that serve the public instead of themselves. The public trust needs that “INDEPENDENCE” or it will be to our ruin.
“The U.S. failed to answer those questions and have created a total disaster. If we do figure out the answers we at least will have a direction to follow to head for an eventual recovery.” – William
The quick recap is again to get corporate lobbyists out of government, replace them with elected officials that serve the public and regulate corporations to serve the public instead of the other way around and its going to go one of two ways. The majority of the masses will snuggle themselves in the blanket of apathy and self interests and humanity will self destruct due to all the uglies humans really are capable of… or the majority of the human population will be better than that and rise to the occasion, oppose corruption and rise to the challenges that lie ahead. I have the hope that in this sense, mob rules and the majority of us are good and decent folk who want whats best for everyone, never mind themselves and do what is necessary when push comes to shove.
Just sayin
Something is bothering me more than all this though William. (the same old mother of all issues) I’ll try to find time to address it later today.
“ONE OF THE PENALTIES FOR REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN POLITICS IS THAT YOU END UP BEING GOVERNED BY YOUR INFERIORS”: PLATO
I refuse to let this happen again.
Mr Harper , your days in power are numbered—you better enjoy them while you can.
Dr Mike Popovich–former life-long Conservative.
Watching a rerun of Family last night and the line describing the “Young Rebpublican’s” group does very well in describing the Conservatives up here as well:
We help others who have the means to help themselves.
Can’t say I’ve heard a more blunt but accurate description of both the Conservatives here and the Republican’s in the US in a while!
“Harper will kill Dion in a debate. Dion should be careful. He might get what he’s wishing for.
By Harper Fan on 07.03.08 10:01 pm”
A true debate is one where reason and logic are used to establish your point of view… not the cheap smears and obscuring retorts that Harper and his zombies use in the HOC.
In a true debate Dion would eat Harper’s lunch, especially if it was in a true debate format and the respective points of view were judged by an expert panel of environmentalists.
Harry S., please take the time to read The Green Shift. It provides quite a bit of factual background to support the reasons why Canada needs a carbon tax.
I just took the World’s Smallest Political Quiz and was surprised to discover I’m a Liberal. (I thought I was a centrist). Here is their definition of Liberal:
Liberals usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but tend to support significant government control of the economy. They generally support a government-funded “safety net” to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles.
The World’s Smallest Political Quiz was sent to me on Facebook. I don’t know if it can be accessed outside of Facebook or not, in case anyone is interested.
When the field has been cleared of useless alternatives, then an appropriate energy policy worth debating will be put forth, and it will be a winner.By Spencer on 07.04.08 2:52 am
Why doesn’t the Conservative Party already have an appropriate energy policy worth debating? What’s the holdup? Hardly leadership material to wait to hear other alternatives first.
Stephen Harper is afraid to debate Dion, what a big WUSSY.
– Garth
By Marc on 07.03.08 10:56 pm
Yup, Garth, this is really grown-up and respectful of you. You are desperate.
By Catherine on 07.04.08 4:32 am
========
LOL, you don’t like it at all when the shoe is on the other foot do you? Typical con, can dish it out but whines and cry’s if any one dares return the favour! Wow, you just exemplified todays conservatism in Canada, thanks.
Pssssst…Garth, can someone remind Mr. Dion that he did not bring the government down and no one is campaigning? Debates happen during election campaigns. Mr. Dion looks silly even ‘demanding’ a debate in the middle of summer when he was the one who supported the government. If he wanted a debate he should have brought the government down. The Prime Minister does not take his orders from Mr. Dion.
Besides…if the shoe were on the other foot I am sure Mr. Dion would be in hiding as is his normal behaviour.
And, everyone in politics knows that a sitting PM is not going to lend credibility to a campaign plan of the opposition.
Mr. Harper is ignoring the pest.
LOL Leasa
Today’s economic “Hail Mary pass” is brought to us by Dwight Duncan, Treasurer of Ontario, at
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=808656cd-4c5e-4958-b7bd-a9148c65c699
Duncan denied that the Province is headed for a recession. The latest
statistics are a “mixed bag of numbers”, but “The numbers we saw for Ontario in the first quarter are consistent with Quebec, consistent with the national number.” (Now isn’t that reassuring!)
While the manufacturing and forestry sectors may be struggling, “Housing starts are up, employment levels are up.”
Wonder how many new houses and Starbucks Duncan can buy to keep Ontario’s second quarter GDP out of negative territory and Ontario out of an official recession.
Why NOT debate Layton and May. Would make the PM look silly for not showing up.
Why is is just fine for you Libs to collect your FAT paychecks for all that time while not showing up to do your job, yet whine that someone doesn’t want to show up for a debate during summer recess at the time you select. Give your head a shake man before you wtite crap like this!!!
By Doug on 07.04.08 1:20 am
Why is is just fine for you Libs to collect your FAT paychecks for all that time while not showing up to do your job, yet whine that someone doesn’t want to show up for a debate during summer recess at the time you select. Give your head a shake man before you wtite crap like this!!!
By Doug on 07.04.08 1:20 am
Ah, Doug – are you Canadian? We don’t spell it “paycheck” here in Canada – it’s PAYCHEQUE…
Catherine – who do you think you are challenging everyone on being Canadian? The nerve. Absolute nerve. Ah, what’s your background? Ancestry? Harry S is afraid to answer that question – are you?
Harper hasn’t got time to debate because he’s busy spreading propaganda -changing historical facts about Quebec City for one.
7. If after spending the summer touring Canada to sell your Green Shift your personal popularity and Liberal party polling does not exceed that of the Conservative party will you conclude that Canadians reject your Green Shift, and will you then resign as Liberal leader?
By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:43 pm
Reasonable questions, Harry.
But, given Mr. Harper’s promise of a Con government majority, and his failing to increase Con polling numbers, maybe you should also ask the following question to Mr. Harper:
If after spending the last 2 years campaigning rather than governing, and your failure to sell the Conservative view of Canada, and the fact that your party’s popularity has not increase, indeed it is on a down slope; will you conclude that Canadians reject your view for Canada, and will you resign as Conservative leader?
We know the answer PMSH will give… and its the same one you’ll get from M. Dion to your question.
As for the reasons why Harper won’t debate M. Dion, I’ll suggest option g., he likes smaller government because it gives him time to flip burgers on taxpayers time!
I think a debate is a good idea but I don’t think Mr. Doin really wants one. If he really wanted one, he would have defeated the government months ago and the debate would have begun, with the voters being the ultimate judge.
The idea is to have a meaningful debate that lasts a few months, that gives people the complete facts, and is not relegated to a 90-minute televisioned version of QP once during a four-week campaign. Surely you can see the benefit in that, of trying to do politics in a different way that serves the people, not the leaders? — Garth
“Meanwhile Canadians are freaked out about gas prices, worried about economic slowdown and think governments are doing nothing about the future of the planet.”
Ah yep… Still waiting. I wish any political leader would come forward and offer something. Airlines will be the first industry to die. Tourism next. I’d rather not see that. Someone federally must offer
1. Significant alternative energy options, and many of them.
2. Economic relief
3. Massive growth of public transit.
Air France is looking at offering high speed rail service. Air Canada is laying off staff… one of these companies has the ability to diversify.
Carbon Shift is 1. 1 very good idea.
We need a few more.
The immediate problem right now is the high price of energy. When winter starts to bite, people will have survival problems. Political leaders have no solution to this so they go back to the only thing they know – raising taxes.
If Dion wanted a debate, he should have defeated the government. When people want to celebrate and forget their everyday troubles, the last thing they need are political dillitaunts prancing around the cow patties and kicking the mess back at them. Discussing the nuances of the smell won’t clean it up. I’ll vote for the guy with the shovel who knows how to use it.
Garth: I lived through the NEP in the 80’s and suffered personally and watched friends lose their homes over a government policy designed to transfer wealth. They sacrificed the west to gain for themselves in the east, and you say forget it, it is ancient history.
Is that what you would tell a rape victim!
Check the facts. I’m just an Eastern idiot, but I beleive a severe drop in world oil prices did more harm than anything Ottawa cooked up. Am I wrong? — Garth
Why won’t Stephen Harper debate Stephane Dion on Friday in Calgary?
posted by Garth Turner on 07.03.08 @ 9:42 pm |
So you want a debate now? Why didn’t the libs bring down the government when you had the chance. You could have been debating all you want.
If the PM doesn’t adjust his schedule to accommodate Dion then he is labeled undemocratic. Dion could have defeated the government at any time but he wasn’t ready to. Now he is so he demands a debate. Do you guys hear how irrational you are?
For Harper to debate only Dion at the exclusion of the other parties would be undemocratic. Of course to libs that doesn’t matter. They circumvent democracy all the time.
If Dion wants to debate so bad all he has to do is VOTE when the commons is sitting. He had his chance, now he will just have to wait till fall.
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.03.08 11:09 pm
What a great idea, Greg! It could even be a fundraiser – not for the Party, which would seem crass – but for something like the Trans Canada Trail system. What do you say Garth?
By Linda Pearson on 07.04.08 5:59 am
AN EXCEPTIONAL IDEA! … WHAT ABOUT SOME BUMPER STICKERS? The Hon. Garth had someone at his Milton Income Trust meeting who had some REALLY GREAT PRESENTATION FORMAT STICKERS … We need some readiness meetings all ’round.
By Janice on 07.04.08 9:17 am
Are you his CHICKEN APPOINTMENTS SECRETARY? cluck..cluck..cluck..cluck
The Collapse of the Great Ratings Scam
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/issues.aspx?The-Collapse-of-the-Great-Ratings-Scam
By TS on 07.04.08 7:35 am
Harry S., please take the time to read The Green Shift. It provides quite a bit of factual background to support the reasons why Canada needs a carbon tax.
………………………………………………………..
Sorry about that TS …. It does say on page 16 of the Green Shift that: ““Canada won’t meet it’s obligations under the first phase or the Kyoto Protocol” … and since Canada is currently 30% in excess of it’s Kyoto target, must we assume that is the reason why Canada needs a Carbon Tax? Seems like a reasonable assumption, but I would like to hear it directly from Dion.
BTW .. Isn’t that the 30% GHG excess accumulated under the previous Liberal governments of Chretien-Martin-Dion who “didn’t get it done” … and now Liberal Dion is telling Canadians that a Liberal government would impose a punitive Liberal Carbon Tax to grind Canadians down to our 2012 Kyoto targets?
But wait … Dion admits in his Green Shift that: ““Canada won’t meet it’s obligations under the first phase or the Kyoto Protocol” … so what happens next? Purchasing Billion$$$ of Kyoto Carbon Credits so a Dion Liberal government is in compliance with the Liberal Rodriguez ” Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act” ..??
Is this the Dion Liberal hidden agenda that our MP Garth refuses to admit or even acknowledge???
He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.
Not that there are any similarities.
posted by Garth Turner on 07.03.08 @ 9:42 pm |
Wow Garth, do you ever know how to fan the flames of national unity. If those most affected by Dion’s carbon tax grab don’t agree with it and won’t take it lying down, then they just aren’t Canadians.
With a communications director like you no wonder Dion’s leadership popularity is less than Deuceppe.
Check the facts. I’m just an Eastern idiot, but I beleive a severe drop in world oil prices did more harm than anything Ottawa cooked up. Am I wrong? — Garth
Garth, so now you supported the NEP? Was Mulroney wrong to scrap it?
Air France is looking at offering high speed rail service. Air Canada is laying off staff… one of these companies has the ability to diversify.
By Ripley on 07.04.08 8:42 am
Air France is able to offer high speed rail because French governments of the past invested in the infrastructure needed for high speed rail.
Compare that to Canada. high speed from Windsor to the Quebec boarder has been discussed for decades. I can drive to Toronto faster than I can get there by rail.
Now maybe, if Via had competition….. there’s a thought.
Leasa, Catherine, Janice and the rest of Harper’s talking puppets -using the vote issue in the House is pretty lame isn’t it? Ya, it’s lame.
Do you understand what debate means? It’s a discussion of different points of view – proving your view.
Oh, and guess what – so far Canada is still a democracy – a democracy involves different points of view, political stripes but you people don’t like democracy. You don’t like discussion of policies. You want to be told what to do and think. Puppets on a string is what you are.
Sad
Regardless of what you think about him, Stephane Dion has stones the size of the oilpatch for venturing into the belly of the beast like that. Not to mention during a time when most people will drunk be supper time. Despite appearances, Stephane Dion is tougher than most could imagine. For over a year and a half he has been attacked by the media, the opposition and nervous nellies in his own caucus, but he is still standing and not going away, and even better, he is not flailing away with sugar-coated typical political pandering but a definite vision and wakeup call for fighting climate change and ensuring Canada’s future in the world.
He faced down the separatists, who were even crueller and more venomous and vindictive than the Cons (hard to imagine but yes, separatists are even more blinkered and desperate than Cons with Tory SPeaking Points), on their home turf, and they are on their way down while Stephane Dion will be the next Prime Minister of Canada. He has got the demanour of an academic but the hide of a rhino.
GARTH: You and your felow Liberals sat on your hands all year….what an embarrassment allowing Jack Layton to be the true opposition.Now you go into a fit when Mr.Harper doesn’t fall into Dion’s trap.You had the opportunity to go to the people dozzens of times and you wimped out.What a shame!!!!
The idea is to have a meaningful debate that lasts a few months, that gives people the complete facts, and is not relegated to a 90-minute televisioned version of QP once during a four-week campaign. Surely you can see the benefit in that, of trying to do politics in a different way that serves the people, not the leaders? — Garth
…………………………………
Well, Garth … since it seems that PM Harper will not engage Dion in debate on the Green Shift, why don’t you and I have a debate right here and now on your fine forum..??!!!
Since you are a seasoned parliamentary debater, it should be easy for you to accomodate me and your adoring forum.
I have presented the facts as I see them concerning Dion’s Green Shift and Rodriguez’ Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act (which I believe you supported) on this forum and asked you to respond, but you were conspicuously silent on discussion or debate.
Perhaps the title of the debate might be: “Resolve that Canada urgently needs a Carbon Tax as defined in the Dion Liberal Green Shift.”
Are you up for a little debate on your own forum, Garth … or do you just prefer to lord it over us peons with your imperial articles and feeble blurts ..??!!!
(Btw … why the time lag in posting: By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:43 pm?? Did you have to give the Liberal trools at Death Star HQ some advance notice that it was coming through and they had better be prepared to respond to my devastating queries??)
snip
“He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.
Not that there are any similarities.”
- Garth
Well, Garth, as an anglophone Quebecker who has fought against 2 referendum here, grown up in an area where the first Parti Quebecois member was elected, I must revise your above comment. The similarities between the two separatist groups are not as strong as you imply.
The Quebec separatist movement is all about culture. It is about protecting their language, history, and the belief they are creating a country for their offspring, so they can continue to live in an age-old way, keeping their roots, and prospering as a French nation in an English majority continent. It is all about their perspective of “Us”. I have never seen the greedy aspect, nor the “me-first” applied to individuals, though, like ALL politicians, they enjoy political power. Indeed, Quebec is the most socialist province and region in North America.
It seems, the Albertan separatist movement is all about “Me”. It is all about money, keeping wealth, threatening Canadian unity for their bank accounts. If this is the “culture” they want to “protect”, it is a sad thing to pass on to their next generations. I find absolutely no “noble vision” to support their threats. They can definitely be described by your comments.
Funny, but fluently bilingual, and growing up directly involved with Francophone “pur laine”, I truly understand their reasoning, but I believe in the strength of Canada, and revel in the cultural contribution the French have made to our country. They were the first to explore it from east to west; north to south. They opened up the continent. The English used them for their guides. The native people accepted them as their brothers, and often married.
The passion in the common Francophone for the vision of a French nation is tangible. They will debate the idea ad infinitum, and are not “against” Canada, they are “For” their vision.
I hate to admit it , but even that jerk of a sub-Prime Minister was right when he said in Quebec City that the French started Canada.
I am torn between the two cultures, but my loyalty is to a united Canada, for all, even the selfish pricks in Alberta.
Stephen Harper is afraid to debate Dion, what a big WUSSY.
By keith phibbs on 07.04.08 8:01 am
Where is their Conservative leader now? No where to be found.
Check the facts. I’m just an Eastern idiot, but I beleive a severe drop in world oil prices did more harm than anything Ottawa cooked up. Am I wrong? — Garth
Yes you are an Eastern idiot. And you just proved it. The world oil prices didn’t collapse to pre 1980 price until 1985 thus precipitating the end of the NEP.
If, as you wrongly claim, it was world energy prices that caused the economic meltdown in Alberta you’d have seen the same in other oil producing countries. Norway, for example, saw a massive economic boom between 1980 and 1985 because of it’s oil economy and high world prices. Not until the oil price crash in 1985 did the other world oil economies start to feel the pinch. The meltdown in Alberta was absolutely caused by the NEP and no amount of Eastern bull$hit can change that.
Were you aware Garth that from 1980 – 1985 housing prices in Toronto remained flat (no decline). The same period in Vancouver, Saskatoon, & Winnipeg saw declines of 20%. And Edmonton and Calgary saw declines of 40%.
You can’t blame that on anything other than the NEP.
Calgary house prices maintained historic high levels until 1982, then declined until 1985, before starting to recover. World oil prices hit an historic high in 1981, then declined until 1986, when they began to recover. Proof is abundant if you wish to find it. I am not claiming oil price fluctuations alone caused real estate prices to move, as they were but one factor. Nor can you claim the NEP alone did the same. — Garth
The World’s Smallest Political Quiz
http://www.pointatme.com/quiz/
Neat fun!
Dion could of debated Harper if he brought the government down. But Dion did not b/c he is scared shiftless. So now he just sits and whines in the corner demanding the PM debate him. To funny.
Why would Harper even waste his time with Dion, he has country to run. If Dion wants to debate Harper he should bring down the government.
Let’s face it Garth by novemebr this dumb greenshaft idea will be in a dust bin.
PS:Do you understand how dumb Dion looks whinning for a debate when you clowns sat on your hands in the house for 40 odd confidence votes. Ha,ha Garth you and the liberals are a joke.
But hey while Harper runs the country you will sit on your blog whinning must suck to be you.
This link may work better….
The World’s Smallest Political Quiz
http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html
There’s only two ways out for the U.S. recession at this point. The first is misery and completely bottomed valuations, so bad that eventually it will have nowhere to go but up and americans will still consume so they will consume something and some industry will survive…
By brain on 07.04.08 6:29 am
If I read you correctly then I’d say you’re absolutely right, American citizens and corporations should swallow THE bitter pill, ie high interest rates. This would rid the economy of all it’s weaknesses. People who bought homes way out of their price range and businesses that shouldn’t have been in business would be forced to adjust to the realities of a healthy economy and not one that attempts to SUPPORT A FALSE SENSE OF WEALTH. I firmly believe that Greenspan had that opportunity to flush out the weaknesses in the US economy in the late 90’s but instead he kept interest rates low. Low interest rates combined with increased money supply and credit hurt anyone trying to appreciate their wealth by buying investment income instruments. In an effort to find higher rates of return our seniors were forced to go to the stock market because the GIC’s couldn’t cut the mustard. You can see why the Income Trusts were very popular.
My big concern now is that our gov’ts both Cdn and US have allowed our personal wealth to erode away.
For example, the Federal Reserve creates inflation in the money supply by creating too much money and credit, which causes inflation in things as all of this money enters the economy, and then eventually the inflations in stocks, bonds, houses and the size of government becomes so great that further infusions of money must increase in proportion to the increase in the aforementioned prices of the stocks, bonds, houses and size of government if they are to maintain a static percentage growth, and some of all that increasing avalanche of money starts getting into bidding wars for commodities, increasing the prices of commodities.
The combination of too much money and credit AND taxes that are through the roof is what’s eating away at the wealth of the middle class.
Is there a way out of all this? Your suggestion may work but wouldn’t the US fed have to stop spending? That government is so huge and so many people depend upon it for everything , I personally don’t think they can and that’s why I think we are headed for some big time inflation and it couldn’t come at a worse time than now , with so many people in vulnerable financial positions.
Now that would cause a lot of misery.
Check the facts. I’m just an Eastern idiot, but I beleive a severe drop in world oil prices did more harm than anything Ottawa cooked up. Am I wrong? — Garth
Check this out Garth for your “facts”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program
“It is estimated by various scholars that Alberta lost between $50 billion and $100 billion because of the NEP.”
“CREA historical data shows a decline from 1980 through to 1985 of approximately 20% for Vancouver, Saskatoon and Winnipeg while the drop approached 40% in the oil dominated economies of Edmonton and Calgary[9], yet through those years oil prices were still historically high (see figure Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861-2006).”
“For the period 1980 through 1985, government statistics show that while the overall number of bankruptcies per 1,000 businesses in Canada peaked at 50% above the 1980 rate[10], the bankruptcy rate in Alberta’s economy rose by 150% after the NEP took effect[11] despite those years being amongst the most expensive for oil prices on record (see figure Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861-2006).”
“Thus, not all oil based economies suffered as Alberta did during the global slowdown of the early 1980’s. Norway experienced an economic boom during the NEP years thanks to the historically high oil prices (see figure Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861-2006).”
Garth, this is what you liberals did to western Canada. To say it is unCanadian to refuse to take it again is just more despicable lieberal arrogance.
Wow. Wikipedia. Too bad it’s wrong. Check out a world oil price chart, and layer it over Calgary home prices. Then come back. — Garth
Where is their Conservative leader now? No where to be found.
By AToryNoMore on 07.04.08 10:04 am
Look at the picture Garth took. The Prime Minister is hanging out with Canadians. Listening to their concerns. Get out of your basement and have him cook you a burger.
Someone above said, “Regardless of what you think about him, Stephane Dion has stones.”
The problem is, they are all in his head!.
Garth,
The fact that you want a two month debate only underscores my point that this is one of the only ways the Libs can reach a maximum number of people with its “green shift” tax. Otherwise, they have to wait till the house sits in September. But you will then be torn between debating this tax or digging up pseudo-scandals. If you wanted a debate on this why, during question period, have all the questions been on anything but policy. Had the Libs proposed this in Jan and then spent the spring debating it they might have improved their current standing. Yet even after proposing their “Green Shift” tax they cant even get ahead of the conservatives with one of their own Liberal pollsters, Harris Decima. Harper is doing exactly what is best for his position right now. Ask him in September in the house, and put aside the lame questions on Bernier and such.
With one simple sentence,”I guess he can do it again in Alberta.”, you once again confirm the Liberals have written off the west as nit wits compared to you “cultured” Ontario types.
By Spencer on 07.04.08 2:31 am
Spencer
Sorry if Garth offended your sensibilities. Perhaps you missed his point that M. Dion had taken on the separatists in the lead up to the Quebec 1995 referedum. I don’t think he meant that all Albertans talk of separatism but there is a certain wing that supports those sentiments.
M. Dion would never write off regions of the country – he is a true patriot. However, he knows that his green shift vision will be challenged by fossil fuel rich provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan. That is why he chose to launch his dialogue with Canadians in Calgary.
When Mr. Harper raised the spectre of NEP last week I was furious. A carbon tax has nothing to do with nationalizing our energy resources and the PM knows it. What Mr. Harper did was reignite that west vs. east bitterness that is divisive as expressed in your response.
Spencer, did you forget your geography like Jim Flaherty? The west does not stop at the Rockies.
Hello from B.C.
In fact, M. Dion has a vision and plan for all Canadians.
The National Energy Policy may have been the wrong policy at the wrong time but no one can convince me that it was done on purpose to hurt the west. The purpose was to protect Canada at a whole.
These bitter western partisans that we see here don’t even represent the “me” generation unless they gain some personal satisfaction from giving their hard earned money to the petroleum industry as well as their water and the air they breathe. They represent instead the voice of the petroleum industry and its executives either by being paid for their advocacy or through the indoctrination process.
They are so filled with dislike for this country and its people that they are willing to pay a huge personal price to try to destroy it and that is something that we all need to consider.
This particular group of western separatists are not that different from some of the Quebec separatist extremists. I don’t believe that any advocacy group is homogeneous in motive.
Oh Garthy. Yes oil prices started to DELETED.
(This is what you get when you ridicule me. — Garth)
A couple of questions: Firstly,have you seen and listened to a 12 year old named Severn Suzuki on youtube?Secondly, can you please do something about the gas price. At $1.05 we should be able to recover from this criss. And thirdly, well done to the government for standing up to the dictator Magabe , who is getting away with murder. Along with hie Fifth Bragade of thugs…. some people won’t even mention them as if they don’t exist.
BTW .. Isn’t that the 30% GHG excess accumulated under the previous Liberal governments of Chretien-Martin-Dion who “didn’t get it done”
Harry S made a excellent point.
Why did the liberals when in power didn’t offer massive tax credits for individuals or business to buy energy efficient and alternative energy products ? ie geothermal/solar systems
Why did the liberals never got rid of environmental tax and GST on high milega or zero emmission cars?
What is the stance of the liberal party in regards of the electric car ie Zenn? Dalton Gov’t is still haven’t approved the Zenn car on Ontario roads and the Federal transport dept has change the regs on the Zenn car so that they can’t be run on roads even though in the USA (45 states) allow zenn cars on their roads , Europe and Mexico.
How come under the Liberals under Mr Dion the liberals never got rid of the 3-5 billion oil subsidy and used that monies for homeowners/business to buy alternative energy products.
How come the Liberal party under Chretien/Martin allowed CN out West to remove track.Rail is more efficient for moving large volumes. Now farmers have to truck their grain production from far away from their homes to terminals which increase C02 emmission and wrecking the major roads in the west.
Why has the liberals not adopted a plan to move most of the manufacteuring/products by using rails instead of trucks (point of terminal)? especially along the 401 corridor??
Why did the Liberal gov’t not impose regualtion of using catylic converters for small engines.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2007-04-17-small-engines-usat_N.htm
Liberals when in power never had any manatory emmission standards just voluntary.Why is that??
Another point is e-waste. How come the Liberal party has no real stance on this.
All batteries (A,B,C,D etc) should be recycled not thrown into garbage dumps. The federal gov’t should make a law on this not voluntary standard. Force battery makers and retail stores to take back their electronic products for recyclement.
BTW I’m not voting Con but the Liberals have alot of explaining because they are not Angels either on this debate. Liberals had no plan for the Environment when they were in gov’t when the Liberal party signed Kyoto. USA had reduce their emmission standard even though the USA didn’t sign Kyoto. USA and many americans bought with Federal/state tax credits to buy alternative/energy efficient products.
Germany today has made a major effort in alternative energy technology. Germany itself has redirected large tax credits for business and individuals. Today 5% of Germany GNP is dervived from alternative energy technology.
In Dubai, their Federal gov’t is spending billions on solar and installing solar systems on each of their homes? Why is Canada not doing the same!
Bonnie,
FYI, I live in BC. Last I checked, West means Manitoba to BC. If Dion is a true patriot tell him to give up his French citizenship. He is a true French Patriot, but not a true Canadian patriot. The NEP is exactly what this is about. Dion is the one with the divisive politics. Harper has done more to unite this country than any Liberal in this generation. I was once a Liberal but their massive failures in government in the past decade has doomed them to the hinterlands of Toronto in the next election. Thats why you are so angry. Your divine right of rule has been overturned by reasonable Canadians who will not be told what to think by Liberal media and governments anymore.
Garth,
Why the lag in posting. Are you censoring? How un-liberal of you?
Your comment goes into a moderation queue, and is approved when I get to it. My constituents come first. You come second. Get over it. — Garth
TORONTO – BCE Inc. has entered into an $35-billion takeover agreement with a consortium of buyers that will take the telecom giant private at the agreed-on price of $42.75 per common share, the company announced on Friday.
The world’s biggest leveraged buyout is expected to close on Dec. 11 after the takeover group, led by the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan, Providence Equity Partners Inc. and Merrill Lynch Global Private Equity, among others, secured the necessary funds to close the deal. © Canwest News Service 2008
Welcom to the “World” of “Tax slippage”
All you “Brilliant Harperites”
Go out and enjoy PAYING the “Tax” that will now follow.(Somebody has to make up the difference)
Isn’t our Miniature finance minister wonderful? (miniature brain that is.) So good at saving our corporate interests.
Harry, you backed a winner. Oh—– ya!
Some where You said that you pay 6 figures in tax?? well, get ready to pay more. A lot more!—–Bone head!
Thats the result of blindly following a LIAR!
(This is what you get when you ridicule me. — Garth)
By Reid on 07.04.08 11:35 am
Ya it must suck for
DELETED
You mean eastern Liberals come first, all other “Canadians” come second!
My constituents live here. Can’t help it if you’re jealous — Garth
“(Btw … why the time lag in posting: By Harry S on 07.03.08 11:43 pm?? Did you have to give the Liberal trools at Death Star HQ some advance notice that it was coming through and they had better be prepared to respond to my devastating queries??)
By Harry S on 07.04.08 9:54 am”
LMAO@ “devasting queries”…. Harry S., you seem to hold yourself in unrealistic high self regard. No one on this blog takes you the least bit seriously.
The only liars on this blog are the reality denying Liberals with their scare mongering and manipulative illogic. Privatization of BCE will be good for the consumer in the long run. The problem with you Liberals is that you have not seen a good leader in such a long time that it confuses you when you are confronted with one. Better learn to live with it though, it will be the norm for the next 5 years at least.
“BTW I’m not voting Con but the Liberals have alot of explaining because they are not Angels either on this debate. Liberals had no plan for the Environment when they were in gov’t when the Liberal party signed Kyoto. USA had reduce their emmission standard even though the USA didn’t sign Kyoto. USA and many americans bought with Federal/state tax credits to buy alternative/energy efficient products.
By Scotty on 07.04.08 11:41 am”
Scotty, I don’t understand you wasting time on the past. Doing that does not accomplish anything.
We now have an integrated plan that Stephane Dion is putting out to Canadians for debate and input. The past omissions by all previous governments, including Harpo’s is a moot point.
The real question is whether there is a better alternative than the plan that Dion has put forward. In my view the intensity target plan put forward by Harper is a joke and it has been thoroughly discredited by environmental experts.
Dion’s plan is a good starting point and has gotten positive reviews by environmental experts.
Harper is unwilling to have a proper debate on the issue – that tells me he knows his plan is substandard.
So, what specifically do you disagree with in Dion’s plan? What facts do you have to support your point(s) of disagreement? Or, are you just another neoCon bobblehead with no real thoughts of your own?
“I was once a Liberal but their massive failures in government in the past decade has doomed them to the hinterlands of Toronto in the next election. By Spencer on 07.04.08 11:43 am”
You mindless chortle is so typical of neoCon bobblehead bloggers. And, what are these ‘massive failures’ you speak of? Getting the deficit under control? Creating the strongest government surplus performance in the G8?
I guess few of the posters who complain that the Liberals could have been debating the Green Shift in Question Period don’t watch too often. There is no debate in the house! If you question the treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan, you are a Taliban lover. That’s debate? If you question the 20 billion dollars going from Ontario into Ottawa’s coffers you are a “small man of confederation” That’s debate! If you question the Atlantic Accord, you are thrown out of caucus. That’s debate? If you question the safety of our Nuclear Energy you are a Liberal appointee. That’s debate? If you suggest a program that would help to cut carbon emissions then you are out to “screw everyone” That’s debate? What I would like some of these debaters to explain to me is why Cap and Trade is better than a tax on carbon? Is there a set price they will pay for the carbon overuse? Will it be $10.00 a ton, $40.00 a ton or even $60.00 a ton If the polluters pay. will that cost be passed down to the consumer? How long will it take to implement such a programme? Can it be put in place immediately like a carbon tax or will it take years to reduce carbon use?How will I know that the polluters are not gouging me as they seem to be doing with the 2.3 cents put onto BC gasoline prices but the price going up by 10 cents ?At least I know how much is carbon tax and what the gas companies are taking out of my pocket. Will I get an incentive such as tax relief from the government to enable me to buy incandescent light bulbs or energy saving appliances thus enabling me to decrease my carbon use? This is what debate is all about. Finding out answers and finding out if there are better ways to do things. The Green Shift is not written in stone – for those who accuse M.Diom of flip-flopping on this, to me it shows someone who looks at all sides of a problem and is not afraid to change position if he finds a better way.
Thanks, kpn on 07.03.08 11:29 pm,
I’m just trying to get the information out to people so they can take action in there own best interest and there families best interest, hopefully in time to make a difference.
I think most of us try our best to do things that will not shorten our live spans. Or do things that will not shorten or prevent the life spans of their kids and grand kids. Most of us appreciate a nice quality of live.
The western world past standard of living is perhaps not the best way to keep going, if we want to keep going.
Constant growth is not sustainable on our finite planet earth. Earths life giving systems does seem to have some flexibility, but there are limit to the amount of abuse she will take.
Most of us get conditioned to accept and comply with the present system we have of consumption and waste, even if it’s not in our best long interests, like smoking.
The Mass media is used to manipulate and control the masses for the biding of a few people how primary goal is to get more paper money, which is made up by banks or Governments around the world. Money is only a tool to keep people motivated to work.
In past times if you didn’t work and help in a village, you and the other people would starve to death.
The people in the mass media have families too. They’re not all insane.
Some are trying to get the message out to the masses. There are competing will other interest, their Corporate bosses keep a tight leash on some of them, or they have been condition to think so.
We are programmed not to think too much.
We’re feed ‘entertainment’. Critical-thinking and long term planning is no encouraged.
Just look at credit cards, and personal debt. The jobs that supply us with the stuff we use and need is moving farther way and over seas. So the Corporation can maximize there short term profits.
Not everyone in corporations are sociopaths. Most are just people with families to feed, cloth and house, which are stuck in the system.
The system is broken and needs to be reworked, so it can keep functioning to supply we the people with the things we all need and maybe some stuff we would like. Hopefully in a fare and equitable way.
Thankfully there are some smart people in the mass media that still find ways to get the word out. They too have families and are interested in see that they will have a world worth living in., as well as for them selves.
This Blog seemed like a place that I could help get the information out to some of the people that actually care what the future will bring.
Besides Mr. Garth TurnerMP is my MP for Halton, even though I didn’t vote for him.
That would have meant that I thought Harper would do the most good for the people of Canada’s best long term in interests, given the choices that we had to pick from to be PM.
I was paying attention. And from what I’ve seen I was right.
Have you been paying attention?
Are you helping to get the word out this time? The world doesn’t have much time life to deal with man-made Global Climate Heating! And the peaking of oil is upon us now, peak-oil!
Some of the mass media people did getting the information out that raised the warning signs for me, about Harper. (Be very brave, You can do it! You know it’s right.)
I now there are still a few smart people in media that can grasp the good science and help to tell the masses what we really need to know. So we can make an informed decision when we Vote, and to take action as we can in our daily live.
(Never VOTE on a Machine or have your vote counted by Machine! You have heard of hackers? Help count the vote by hand!)
The smart critical-thinking people in media are competing with the Corporation that just doesn’t get it. They keep feeding the masses lies!!!
Some of the people with control over the mass media are not normal people,
Their only goal in live is control and greed. These people don’t care about you or your family’s future. They are insane like a sociopath.
We need to act together in out own best interests, or else….
It seem that PMSH doesn’t even care about his own kid’s future. Do you really think he cares about your family?
For thaws that might hot have seen these,
‘How It All Ends’ 10min.
http://wonderingmind42.com/
The Most IMPORTANT Video You’ll Ever See (part 3 of
10min
(The whole talk/show is called,
Arithmetic, Population, and Energy.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFyOw9IgtjY
‘A Crude Awakening: The Oil Crash.’ 2006
http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/index2.html
(It’s in some rental stores; the extra stuff on the DVD is good)
Talk by Naomi Wolf author of “The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot” given October 11, 2007. 48min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
America: Freedom to Fascism – Director’s Authorized Version 111min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Plato’s: Allegory of the Cave. 8min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ei7LqbYb8M&feature=related
“ZEITGEIST, THE MOVIE”
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
What are YOU going to do to help make this a world worth living in for everyone now and in the future???
Time is quickly running out to take the needed act that is in our families own best interests.
Just my two cents.
Hi kpn,
Do you remember this WARNING!
January 17, 1961
President Eisenhower’s, Farwell address to the Nation. (Only few min. long.)
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html
Thats why you are so angry…
By Spencer on 07.04.08 11:43 am
Based on your post to me apparently you don’t like M. Dion because of his ethnicity. Canadian.
I, Sir am not angry – quite the contrary. I am hopeful.
Mr. Harper, a uniter?? LOL
You Sir, are the angry one filled with misinformation and divisive comments.
For the record, I am not a member of any political party.
End of conversation Spencer of BC.
“there appear to be no con trolls — yet”
BY KPN ON 07.03.08 10:09 PM
Hi KPN, too funny!!
Maybe they are all PMSH, and he was too busy barbecuing Stampede steaks last night to sit and wait for Garth’s post?
The day before the Stampede begins, there are just as many parties as the next ten days. In fact hubby and I were at one of those last night, on a bluff overlooking the beautiful Weaselhead Flats, a pristine natural area about 5 minutes from where we live. Well, pristine until they put the highway right through it. There were bagpipers on the bluff practicing for the parade this morning. It was a beautiful night. We are really looking forward to this visit by M. Dion to Calgary.
Two F-18 Hornets flew over the parade route, and over our house several times. The parade has started, so it’s officially on. Maybe both leaders are sitting along the parade route right now? I wonder if they’re sitting together? That’s up for debate.
Oh, and if anyone would like to read the kind of C.R.A.P. they write in Alberta, take a gander.
KPN, I suspect more than the trolls get a commission from Harper:
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/07/04/6062116-sun.html
I noticed two things, the highly prejudicial writer stills calls Harper’s party the “PC’s”. lol!!!
And another interesting quote tells you a lot:
““Premier Ed Stelmach — with a little good old Alberta political philosophy — “The political reality, fortunately, is the wallet,” Stelmach winked — It’s something he learned at the U.S. Western Governors’ meeting in Wyoming last weekend.””
Meanwhile right in his own city, Stelmach shouldn’t be so smug:
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/453996
““The mindset of Canada’s next generation could be a bigger threat. Before Stelmach writes off this display of youthful passion, he might want to consider the volatility of public opinion.””
Your comment goes into a moderation queue, and is approved when I get to it. My constituents come first. You come second. Get over it. — Garth
……………………………….
Garth … May I remind you that you have titled your forum as:
Garth Turner Unedited
Join Canadians in Conversation with Garth
I didn’t know that some Canadians come second with you .. but I can appreciate you want to satisfy your constituents first.
Can you provide us with a list of those regulars who are your constituents so we can better appreciate who you favour on your fine forum?
It may be difficult for you to fathom, but I have direct contact with actual people whom I represent. After they are looked after, I come here. — Garth
Dion had dozens of chances to have this debate. They were called confidence votes, and Dion cowered in fear and ran away from every single one of them.
Seems to me Dion wants to have this debate when nobody cares (middle of summer) and not when everyone is paying attention (an election campaign).
The time for debate will come for Mr. Dion. And Harper is going to absolutely destroy him.
Bonnie From BC
On the contrary, I love the French and have many French friends in Que. Will be there on sabbatical for 3 months this fall and I look forward to it. My reference was to national identity, not ethnicity. France has French Citizens, of which one is DION, making him a French patriot. No racial slur intended. Count on a Liberal to go there though!
Hi Barb the Proof Reader.
I live 3 blocks from the Stampede Parade.
I would have liked a different plane flying over. Today, July 4th. a plane will fly over communities in NE USA pulling this flag.
Seven foot letters: “SOS WWW. PATRIOTS QUESTION 911.COM SEMPER FI”
Hi Doug on 07.04.08 1:20 am,
In the past Governments the comities did the work that made the bills expectable to the opposition parties, worked out any problem the bills might have that weren’t foreseen the bill writer, and there for expectable to most Canadians.
This PMSH gang, have manuals and written statements to ’subvert’ the work of Parliament
Then they try and ram the crap though by insisting that all votes are confidence votes, hoping to force an election before we the people catch on to PMSH & gang.
Who is PMSH really working for? What is there goal?
It is obvious to me that the Liberals weren’t going to fall for the taps that PMSH try to lay (or should that be lie).
PMSH doesn’t answerer most of the question put to him in the House even when he is there. I guess he doesn’t want to get cot in more lies.
He had his mind sent about’ the green shift’ even before he know what it was.
He’s just showing us how smart a guy he is(NOT).
There will be time to debate ’the green shift’ plan and the other Party platforms during the next election. That’s when all the party presents all of their platform to ‘we the people’,
to see. And then vote for the Leader that we think has our best interest worked out the best.
Now that the ‘the green shift’ plan has been put out for all to see, there is time this summer to have people find out about it, learn about it, make constructive comments or suggestion to improve it.
What has PMSH done/said so fare?
He hadn’t even seen it and said it was
‘insane’, that ‘everyone would be screwed’. I guess PMSH would know lots about that kind of stuff!
We even got a talking oil spot.
How insulting!
He goes over seas and talk of a &65 a ton carbon tax! Where are his cuts in income taxs that would off set the cost to families? What about he jobs he is alowing to leave our contry?
How about the Billions he gave to the USA over the softwood lumber, to try and make him selve look go.
You are a smart guy!
You can listen to both sides, think about it and make up your own mind as to what is best for you, your family and everyone else’s best long term interests.
Find out what the facts are. Tray and sort though the B.S. and vote.
Your family’s future depends on it.
Don’t forget that PMSH is bringing in bills to stop you from even having the chance to find on this World wide web what is really going on!!!
Are you well informed?
Are you a critical-thinker?
What kind of world do you and your family want to live in?
Inaction is still a choice.
What will the consequence be?
Think about it, but not for to long.
We don’t have that luxury anymore!
“He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.”
Divide and Conquer
The Liberal Way
I don’t think it will work this time.
Quebec or Alberta, saparatists are losers, ten times out of ten. — Garth
Hi TS on 07.04.08 7:34 am,
‘In a true debate Dion would eat Harper’s lunch, especially if it was in a true debate format and the respective points of view were judged by an expert panel of environmentalists.’
You don’t need ‘experts’, you only need we the people the site long enough to listen. Then get us out to Vote!
Why NOT debate Layton and May. Would make the PM look silly for not showing up.
By WDM on 07.04.08 8:13 am
Don’t forget the PQ.
Quebec is part of my Canada too.
Not That I a gree with the PQ on separation.
We just need to figure out how to get the Corporate controled mass media to air the debate for all to see???
Divide and Conquer
The Liberal Way
By Fred from Calgary on 07.04.08 1:33 pm
Ah….another so called Liberal idea that Harper has taken as his own, eh!
Only differencr, the Libs po’d the “West” (aka. Alberta), while Harper has po’d the rest of Canada, including that part west of Alberta!
Garth, so now you supported the NEP? Was Mulroney wrong to scrap it?
By Janice on 07.04.08 9:40 am
Hi Janice on 07.04.08 9:40 am,
I’ve been paying attention to todays blogging.
Did I miss it?
I never saw were he said this.
What is your goal in life?
Liberals that believe in Junk Science are Losers.
I get a mite chuffed with many people including BC in their “west” and saying that the “west” is going to pull out of Canada if the “west” doesn’t get it’s way.
Harper’s Flaherty didn’t even know until after the budget last year that the “west” carried on after the Rockies.
BC has been under threat of takeover from the southern neighbour since ever. It’s not going to happen. Spare us, scare us Harper, we’re still here and not going anywhere, especially with the likes of you.
If Harper’s “west” wants to hit the trail, go for it but don’t be thinking BC is going to follow along like some pack mule. We’ve got our own fish to fry, people to feed, province to build. Do you think it’s easy being the best place on Earth?
Separation of BC from Canada is not going to happen. BC is here, somewhat queer, and we mean to stay in Canada. Fark Harper’s firewall. If Harper and Flaherty’s “west” needs a firewall, let them build it. And bloody well make sure to keep your people in!
Sad innit, neither of those bozos are actually from their “west” but both think they are cocks of the walk. One is running from a sad youth in Toronto, re-inventing himself as an Albertan by burying his past deeper than dinosaur bones, and the other is desperately trying to fit in anywhere.
I was in Calgary last year. The Stampede sucks. 10 days of glad-handing, pork-barrelling, aren’t we grand self-congratulation.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Alberta’s kids are dropping out of school, doing drugs, drinking, surfing porn and lighting hobos on fire while their parents work in the oil sands, hit paydirt in the casinos, or drink themselves stupid and run the red mile down at the Eddy.
Grow up!
By Barb the proof-reader on 07.04.08 12:42 pm
Hello Barb the Proof Reader
I think that’s the one thing I miss most about Calgary is Stampede Week. I have fond memories from my childhood.
Barb if you will be attending M. Dion’s townhall meeting would you ask him a question for me?
I’d like to know if he would consider a North of 60 policy. Basically, I don’t think that anyone living north of the 60th latitude should pay a carbon tax especially on heating oil or diesel powered generators or vehicle diesel for that matter. There is no easy substitute because of the extreme temperatures. Afterall, it’s us southerners that represent the problem not the North.
I ask as it’s highly unlikely M. Dion will come to the Sunshine Coast as we do not have a Liberal candidate yet. It’s a long story.
Although the Communications Strategist might let M. Dion that our Premier has a summer home over here and it might be useful to have a more robust conversation over carbon tax harmonization in a informal setting.
By Ron p on 07.04.08 10:47 am
If I read you correctly then I’d say you’re absolutely right, American citizens and corporations should swallow THE bitter pill, ie high interest rates. This would rid the economy of all it’s weaknesses. – R Paul
Sorry about providing a brief clip of the largess of what you said (all good points by the way), but virtual democracy hasn’t hit the webcam/mic era just yet and since my rebuttals are oh so long as it is (chuckles)…
I fully agree with what you’re saying as well. If the government and voting patterns don’t change, trade deficits will continue and U.S. currency will spiral leading to runaway inflation. I’d say the only thing propping up U.S. currency at this point is that the world doesn’t want to lose their number one customer (even though nations are preparing for the worst) I believe U.S. currency is just over 50% foreign owned now (telling in itself as to how bad a position they are in and the end result of 3 decades of trade deficits).
Their only solution as I see it is government regulation/control of corporations but I can’t see it happening any time soon as corporations are controlling their governments and until that changes, well… its a matter of time before greed self implodes and self destructs, I think people know this but the size of the scale of which its happening… its overwelming.
As to your point with Greenspan, I think it was the combination of lax banking regulations and low intersest rates more post 2000 that did the worst damage. I’m certainly not disagreeing with what you are saying in terms of his lending a hand with the tech boom/bust and the Republican knee jerk greed pumped quick fix to tech bubble collapse by overdeveloping real estate with ugly lending laws and cheap fed rates leading the way to any bum off the street with ID and a 4 week old job becoming a home owner saturating the real estate market with new buyers.
But the thing with low rates in the 90’s, at least to me, was where that money was spent, where it ended up and what it generated. In short, the major burns were felt in the markets and silicon valley.
For simplicity sake, we make money in one of three ways: Intellectual properties (design, patent, brand), manufacturing and commodities. Clinton pumped up the value of intellectual properties. Bush pumped up the value of commodities. Both administrations neglected manufacturing and thats where the true engine is with the middle class and economy. Combine this with how new money is issued and how inflation works the way you’ve explained it and… yeah, its inflationary times ahead due more than anything to a currency crisis that is from a direct result of horrid lending regs/practices and 3 decades of trade deficits and it all points back to corrupt governments and concentrated oligarchies/wealth within the wealthiest shareholders themselves pulling the strings, I’d say, to their own future doom (unfortunately, that doom is also top down, not just bottom up).
Garth has touched on the reality that its never just one thing (such as the NEP as his example) because its true. And booms/bust, governments can slow down development so that they happen much more slowly which, I believe, is the wise thing to do. But in hindsight, looking back, wisdom has been lacking and the mess the U.S. is in now stems entirely from two polarized administrations turning a blind eye to manufacturing and its corporate lobbying, the electorate not being smart enough to stop voting in corporate directors/lobbyists, thats at the heart of it, but its also the weakness of human nature itself because everyone, corporate, political, journalist, voter, consumer, taxpayer, dependant or otherwise who’s got a stake in the system and “ownership” of the responsibilities at hand, is human and the weaknesses we’ve got…
tricia’s 12:29 is so right. If its a major problem for one side of the political process to even openly discuss or debate issues and use “real” facts to base sound decisions on before they become firm policies and later, laws… it’s a clear example of how disfunctional its become, why were in the mess we are in today and readers aren’t stupid.
Most people can spot self interests when they see them, spot lies when they hear them (fallacies, not so much), especially readers and those with memories know climate change deniers are really the last people we should even want to consult with in terms of industry pollution/emissions. Greeders and oilburners, and the self centered “me firster’s” and the gun toters and the war mongerers and religious nutters are the last people that we should rely on to dictate policy for whats best for life, humanity and the environment as a whole. If they don’t want to debate the issues, its not like it can’t be debated regardless and success won’t be found without them at the table. As a rule, thats precisely how success is found.
Whoops grammar
Although the Communications Strategist might let M. Dion know that our Premier has a summer home over here and it might be useful to have a more robust conversation over carbon tax harmonization in a informal setting.
By Bonnie N BC on 07.04.08 2:10 pm
And before much frothing and foaming starts about my post let me say that I was born in Edmonton, have a large extended family in Alberta (across Canada if you must know, Quebec too!), owned a house on McEwan Drive, and visit Alberta often. Though I always breath a sigh of relief and thank all the gods and goddesses for BC and it’s forward-thinking ways whenever I come home.
Hi Fred from Calgary on 07.04.08 2:05 pm,
Surtainly don’t beleive in junk science.
Buy we have a choice we ned to make!
You ask why?
Please take the 10 minutes to see this informative well thought our argument to do more that nothing.
It’ll give you the answere to the why we should bother doing anything.
click on ‘How It All Ends’, at
http://wonderingmind42.com/
Check out a world oil price chart, and layer it over Calgary home prices.
Then come back. — Garth
BY JANICE ON 07.04.08 10:48 AM
Janice, I’m SO glad you took the bait to think you could talk about NEP and so glad to see you warped the story once again, when you deleted many of “the facts” from your lame story.
Funny enough, this is the item that Harper as a young man fell for as well.. the one that warped his mind. He probably even believes his own lies. Now we’ll get it on the table for everyone to get it all straight.
I’ll include a couple of lines you conveniently left out:
“Alberta Premier Peter Lougheed stopped development on several oil sands projects. Given that oil sands production was not yet technologically or economically feasible, the gesture was largely symbolic. He went on national television to announce that oil shipments to the rest of Canada would be cut”
Janice, you also left out the most important part:
“The economic effect of the program is debated.”
“After it was implemented, Canada, along with all of the economies of Europe — and the economy of the United States, fell into a worldwide recession.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession
“It would turn out to be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.””
And Janice, I know you thought it was great to include that part about Norway, but let’s take a clear look, since you don’t know what you’re talking about:
“Norway has obtained one of the highest standards of living in the world in part by having a large amount of natural resources compared to the size of the population. The income from natural resources include a significant contribution from petroleum production and the substantial and well-managed income related to this sector.” <– you left that reference note out too. You see Janice, not only is Norway not comparable to a province, like Alberta, at least The Kingdom of Norway worked together as ONE, not divided, not hoarding oil revenue in some areas and not sharing with others. Norway shares throughout the land.
But also importantly, they save a whole LOT more than Alberta ever has!!! So they work intelligently as ONE. And Norway doesn’t give away the enormous revenues to foreigners that Alberta does. Alberta politicians are dupes and they are ransacking Alberta while you quibble and lie. And now what do we have? Alberta participates in the language of divide and conquer, and the oil companies conquered us. Canada suffers, Alberta suffers. Alberta politicians then lamely, and DISHONESTLY, for political gain, blame the east. We’ve suffered a load of Conservative political driven spin over the years.
So Janice, I was here, in Alberta. I’ll ask you a second time. Where were you?
The spin on NEP was twisted and baked into a hot potato for political advantage. Most Albertans know that. It was yapped up here by GREED. The whole world was in a recession.
Janice, you cherry-picked your source and you did not include all the information that was offered.
The oil companies followed through on their threats without consideration for Alberta.
Why then Janice, are you not angry with the oil companies and the Alberta politicians who really cause the particular problems Alberta has had? Why? Because you don’t know. You weren’t told to be angry with the east. You fell for the propaganda. You fell for the political hype that was created in hopes that it would whip up more misunderstanding and division between east and west.
It was whipped up for Alberta Conservative political advantage. It was whipped up by those who had the most to gain politically. All the while, stepping on the heads of Albertans, and lying to them.
This Alberta Conservative government used it to remain in power for another 30 years. They lie, they smirk, they become CEOs, they are in bed with big oil, they ARE the oil lobbyists.. and as long as the little people get some money, and live under false threats and propaganda, Albertans are hostage to the oil industry.
The extra dent Alberta took in the WORLD WIDE recession of the early 1980s
could have been avoided two ways:
1) if our premier hadn’t been an a-hole
2) if the oil companies hadn’t been a-holes
I was here Janice. I lost 1,500 job placements. I was a front row witness. People here confuse the economics of the time because our politicians, media and bosses told us malarky, for their own advantages. You should put the blame on the oil companies and the PCs in Alberta, and you know it.
Of the jobs I was no longer able to place, half were for oilsands, and as you can see from the above quote, the oilsands project wasn’t in fact technologically ready yet, so it was all for show, and not the dough.
Others have blogged here about how the oil companies followed through on their threats, pulled up and left, and do you not think maybe Janice, that hurt Alberta? Besides, they turned right around and came silently back across the border.
And as far as your ridiculous spin about separation, from an Alberta blog:
“Now, I’m going to lay it all out. I have absolutely no tolerance for the tiny right-wing fringe that so desperately wants Alberta to leave Canada. I have NEVER heard an argument in favour of Alberta separatism that has reached beyond the usual wing-nut banter and paranoid xenophobia. Until this group of crazy right-wing 60-year old white guys come up with a better argument than “because the Liberals suck” or “because of Trudeau and the NEP,” bunkness.??“These extremists do not represent the views of even a fraction of mainstream Alberta society. These people do not speak for Albertans, just like I don’t speak for Albertans. They speak for themselves, the small disgruntled crazy-right. These guys are loonies.”
http://daveberta.blogspot.com/2005/07/republic-of-alberta.html
“I still think it’s “wing-nut banter. Heaven forbid we contribute to the rest of Canada, we are the richest province, we can afford it.”??“We’ll expect Canada to contribute to us when our economy tanks (which it eventually will) and the wing-nuts will belly ache when they think we’re not getting enough”
“For a province that has taken “boom” and “bust” to whole new levels in it’s history, I think economic arguments for separation are a little rich.”??“Mackenzie King kept Alberta and the other Prairie provinces alive during the depression.”
“The people who were around for the depression probably don’t remember what McKenzie King did. The major bust in ‘82 hit when interest rates skyrocketed to 20% and made the Allsands Project a no-go overnight.”
http://daveberta.blogspot.com/2008/07/john-kenneth-galbraith-on-albertas-oil.html
“Stelmach, Schweitzer, Otter, and the seemingly untouchable energy executives in the comfort of their downtown office towers (at Nexen, Syncrude, Suncor, Imperial Oil, and friends) put this book on their summer reading list. The exert below, from Galbraith’s chapter on the environment, was one that I believe is particularly relevant to Alberta in the context of how we exploit our oil sands.
“The market system and its incentives are an accepted part of the good society; this is not in doubt. But there is no divine right of free-enterprise, or free choice, for the producing firm. Or for its consumers. The largest community interest must be protected, as also the future climate and well-being, and there must be concern as to depleatable resources. Since automobiles must be built, have fuel and be driven, and other consumer goods and services must similarly be supplied and utilized, a compromise between the current financial and long-term public interests in essential and inevitable. As a broad rule, however, this compromise must favor the larger community interest and the interest of those to come. That is because the business and political voice and money are allied with the current economic power – with the firms that produce the goods and services, their lobbies and captive or susceptible politicians. The community and the longer public future draw on less specific support.””
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·
~There you have it, Janice. No wonder the initials for your party are C.R.A.P.
Dear:
Redneck,brain addled,Neandethal Albertans .
Guess who shut down the NEP ?
That’s right Jean Chretien .
Work with that bozos and quit your whining no pnw gives a rats fat ass how you cetins feel about anything .
Mulroney did not eliminate the last vestiges of the program until two and a half years later at which time world oil prices had dropped below pre-1980s levels (as adjusted for inflation – see figure Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861-2006). This was a contributing factor to the creation of western Canada’s Reform Party of Canada.
So there you have it . Mulroney kept the program alive for almost three years.
Now STFU losers !
What is your goal in life?
By Greg W. Oakville on 07.04.08 2:04 pm
World peace. Whats yours?
O/T who was it yesterday who took exception to posters referring to Harper as Herr? Well, take a gander at what the website “Free Mark Steyn” has come up with. Warren Kinsella has a screenshot on his blog. I will not be visiting the “Free Mark Steyn” site, or any blogging tory site. Too many worms, spybots and trojans Oh My!
By Brock on 07.04.08 12:56 pm
By Fred from Calgary on 07.04.08 2:05 pm
By gary v on 07.03.08 10:24 pm
By Doug on 07.04.08 1:20 am
By Kai Wolf on 07.03.08 11:37 pm
And to Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc.
Are you people for real? WOW, what a bunch of tunnel vision no brainers that come to this site.
Btw,I hope this answers your questions in the post I made to Catherine on the previous topic in question of Dion not bringing down the government. Harper has been laying bait for months now. He must be getting pretty frustrated that Mr. Dion won’t bite. In the mean time, Dion is proving to be great Prime Minister material & a very smart man.
It’s plain to see that Harper is scared silly of him by the amount of money he’s spending trying to discredit him. Btw, I hope he keeps it up. Canadians are seeing him for what he really is.
Harry, you never answered my question. Have you wrote any great books lately? Are you finished the one you started in 2005 or there abouts? Whats the matter Harry? Afraid to answer in case it might show us who you really are? Come to think of it, Catherine never answered me either.
Cheers
NEP – Part II
Janice, you cherry-picked your source and you did not include all the information that was offered.
The oil companies followed through on their threats without consideration for Alberta.
Why then Janice, are you not angry with the oil companies and the Alberta politicians who really caused the particular problem in Alberta? Why? Because you don’t know. You were told to be angry with the east. You fell for the propaganda. You fell for the political hype – that was created in hopes that it would whip up more misunderstanding and division between east and west. All in ignorance. All to the disadvantage of Albertans.
It was whipped up for Alberta Conservative political advantage. It was whipped up by those who had the most to gain politically. All the while, stepping on the heads of Albertans, and lying to them.
This Alberta Conservative government used it to remain in power for another 30 years. They lie, they smirk, they become CEOs, they are in bed with big oil, they ARE the oil lobbyists.. and as long as the little people get some money, and live under false threats and propaganda, Albertans are hostage to the oil industry.
The extra dent Alberta took in the WORLD WIDE recession of the early 1980s
could have been avoided two ways:
1) if our premier hadn’t been an a-hole
2) if the oil companies hadn’t been a-holes
I was here Janice. I lost 1,500 job placements. I was a front row witness. People here confuse the economics of the time because our politicians, media and bosses spun malarky, for their own advantages. You should put the blame on the oil companies and the PCs in Alberta, and you know it.
Of the jobs I was no longer able to place, half were for oilsands, and as you can see from the above quote, the oilsands project wasn’t in fact technologically ready yet, so it was all for show, and not the dough.
Others have blogged here about how the oil companies followed through on their threats, pulled up and left, and do you not think maybe Janice, that hurt Alberta? Besides, they turned right around and came silently back across the border.
And as far as the lie about separation, please see part NEP part III
So, what specifically do you disagree with in Dion’s plan? What facts do you have to support your point(s) of disagreement? Or, are you just another neoCon bobblehead with no real thoughts of your own?
By TS on 07.04.08 12:23 pm
Your remark is insulting ..I have already posted who I won’t vote for. But for you TS I will restate it — I’m not voting Conservative in the next general election. Garth knows full well where I stand on many issues.
I have the right to post whatever I want too just like you but at least I’m not insulting other posters like you!
Sometimes I agree with Harry S sometimes I don’t. I’m not fixated on one political point or party. My alligence goes to which party or MP that supports my perspective. There are Conservatives, Liberals, NDP MP’s that I like ..I listen to all points of view and then make a decision on different areas. NDP party who has been more pro environment for many years vs Liberals or Cons but are againist a Carbon tax while the Green Party supports it. NDP Party was the first pro environmemtal party in Canada long before the Green Party was a party in Canada. So is the NDP wrong on their stance againist carbon tax? Do you call NDP members as neocon bubbleheads if they don’t support the Carbon tax?
So TS r u againist my ideal of removing 3-5 billion oil subsidy?? Yes or no
Are you againist the ideal of supporting from both the federal/provincial gov’t for the Zenn Car? Yes or No
Are you againist the ideal of large tax credits for geothermal/solar systems for individuals/business?? Yes or No
Are you aganist the ideal of recycling e-waste TS?? Yes or No
Are you againist the ideal of using trains not trucks to move commerce between cities TS ?? yes or No
Do you support the use of cataytic converters for small engines to reduce emissions (see my post on the website on this issue)
Better yet buy electric lawnmower …oops I don’t have any facts to prove this – I call it common sense TS– electric lawnmower doesn’t pollute like regualr lawnmowers and if a person has a solar system for the home to recharge the battery for this electric lawnmower then electric lawnmower becomes more green. Ooops I forgot their is no real tax credits (federaly or provincially) for geothermal/solar systems for homeowners/business owner like there is in Europe or the canadian nuclear industry.
Maybe the Federal liberals should tell Dalton to stop subdizing the nuclear industry ..Use the earmark 25 billion for the nuclear program but instead use the 25 billion for solar/geothermal systems for homeowners/individuals.
Nuclear program was a complete economic failure . All nuclear reactors except Douglas Point went overbudget or had large maintenance bills (ie Pickering)
40% of Ontario debt is directly related to the nuclear program. Darlington reactors was estimated to cost 2 billion and in the end it cost $15 billion..That 13 billion overbudget. 15 billion is part of the debt that Onatario taxpayers must pay for ..You can also see your electric bill having fees to help pay for it. Is that a fact or is that not a fact to understand TS??
Hey TS why does dubai and German gov’t provide huge tax credits for individuals and business for alternative energy products? Are u againist this ideal also??
Remember Garth was once a progressive conservative member for many years ..so do u call him a neocon bubblehead??
As a general concept I support the Green shift carbon tax but the only major problem I have is the carbon tax on treatment on farmers. Farmers feed the world/Canadians and in my mind this carbon tax will hurt them after all they use large energy inputs.I don’t feel that the Carbon tax adequately compensate farmers. Farmers are more important then Hockey players or Bay Street Investment Bankers.
You have no ideal TS on what it costs to run a farm. How much fuel does a farmer use each month for a 1000 acre farm?
For example fertilizer costs last year was $300 a ton ..this year it costs $1000 a ton..in the future who knows?? so you think farmer costs gone up or down???
It takes roughly 6 gallons of diesel fuel per acre to raise conventional corn, from seedtime through harvest.
It cost $25,200 for fuel. ( $4.20 per gallon for diesel * 6 gallons per acre * 1000 acres = $25,200)
A no-till drill costs $16.04/acre. A self-propelled boom sprayer is $5.39/acre.The fuel consumption is approx 0.044 gallons of diesel fuel/PTO horsepower-hour for most implements. Lubrication costs are assumed to be 10 percent of fuel costs.
Charge rates are $12/hour for unskilled labor and $15/hour for skilled labor. The skilled rate is used for planting, harvesting and spraying.
But I guess I’m a neocon bubblehead when I call for large tax credits for solar/geothermal systems for homeowners/business’s, supporting the Zenn Car, supporting the ideal of recycling all e-wastes (computers,laptops,dvd players, all electrical batteries ,TV’s etc)
supporting the ideal of using trains over trucks for transporting commerce between cities. I support the ideal of fair copyright laws not this conservative copyright bill, supporting biofuels using algae, sugar beets and cellustic fiber instead of food crops like corn or wheat , supporting the ideal of waterless toliets and grey water recycling to replace the present water toliet system.
NEP – part III
Janice, as far as the so-called and ridiculous spin about separation, view an Alberta blog:
“Now, I’m going to lay it all out. I have absolutely no tolerance for the tiny right-wing fringe that so desperately wants Alberta to leave Canada. I have NEVER heard an argument in favour of Alberta separatism that has reached beyond the usual wing-nut banter and paranoid xenophobia. Until this group of crazy right-wing 60-year old white guys come up with a better argument than “because the Liberals suck” or “because of Trudeau and the NEP,” bunkness.?“These extremists do not represent the views of even a fraction of mainstream Alberta society. These people do not speak for Albertans, just like I don’t speak for Albertans. They speak for themselves, the small disgruntled crazy-right. These guys are loonies.”
http://daveberta.blogspot.com/2005/07/republic-of-alberta.html
“I still think it’s “wing-nut banter. Heaven forbid we contribute to the rest of Canada, we are the richest province, we can afford it.”?“We’ll expect Canada to contribute to us when our economy tanks (which it eventually will) and the wing-nuts will belly ache when they think we’re not getting enough”
“For a province that has taken “boom” and “bust” to whole new levels in it’s history, I think economic arguments for separation are a little rich.”?“Mackenzie King kept Alberta and the other Prairie provinces alive during the depression.”
“The people who were around for the depression probably don’t remember what McKenzie King did. The major bust in ‘82 hit when interest rates skyrocketed to 20% and made the Allsands Project a no-go overnight.”
http://daveberta.blogspot.com/2008/07/john-kenneth-galbraith-on-albertas-oil.html
“Stelmach, Schweitzer, Otter, and the seemingly untouchable energy executives in the comfort of their downtown office towers (at Nexen, Syncrude, Suncor, Imperial Oil, and friends) put this book on their summer reading list. The exert below, from Galbraith’s chapter on the environment, was one that I believe is particularly relevant to Alberta in the context of how we exploit our oil sands.
“The market system and its incentives are an accepted part of the good society; this is not in doubt. But there is no divine right of free-enterprise, or free choice, for the producing firm. Or for its consumers. The largest community interest must be protected, as also the future climate and well-being, and there must be concern as to depleatable resources. Since automobiles must be built, have fuel and be driven, and other consumer goods and services must similarly be supplied and utilized, a compromise between the current financial and long-term public interests in essential and inevitable. As a broad rule, however, this compromise must favor the larger community interest and the interest of those to come. That is because the business and political voice and money are allied with the current economic power – with the firms that produce the goods and services, their lobbies and captive or susceptible politicians. The community and the longer public future draw on less specific support.””
~There you have it, Janice. No wonder the initials for your party are C.R.A.P.
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·
· · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · · · · · — — — · · ·
Wow, I just had the best view in the city as the Snowbirds just roared past, right in front of my house, right over downtown!!
NEP – part III
Janice, as far as the ridiculous spin about separation, view an Alberta blog:
“I have absolutely no tolerance for the tiny right-wing fringe that so desperately wants Alberta to leave Canada. I have NEVER heard an argument in favour of Alberta separatism that has reached beyond the usual wing-nut banter and paranoid xenophobia. Until this group of crazy right-wing 60-year old white guys come up with a better argument than “because the Liberals suck” or “because of Trudeau and the NEP,” bunkness.?“ These extremists do not represent the views of even a fraction of mainstream Alberta society. These people do not speak for Albertan. They speak for themselves, the small disgruntled crazy-right. These guys are loonies.”
“Heaven forbid we contribute to the rest of Canada, we are the richest province, we can afford it.”?“We’ll expect Canada to contribute to us when our economy tanks (which it eventually will) and the wing-nuts will belly ache when they think we’re not getting enough”
“For a province that has taken “boom” and “bust” to whole new levels in it’s history, I think economic arguments for separation are a little rich.”
?“Mackenzie King kept Alberta and the other Prairie provinces alive during the depression.”
“The people who weren’t around for the depression probably don’t remember what McKenzie King did.”
http://tinyurl.com/5qqgru
“The major bust in ‘82 hit when interest rates skyrocketed to 20% and made the Allsands Project a no-go overnight.”
“Stelmach, and the seemingly untouchable energy executives in the comfort of their downtown office towers – put this book on their summer reading list. The exert below, from Galbraith’s chapter on the environment, was one that I believe is particularly relevant to Alberta in the context of how we exploit our oil sands:
“The market system and its incentives are an accepted part of the good society; this is not in doubt. But there is no divine right of free-enterprise, or free choice, for the producing firm. Or for its consumers. The largest community interest must be protected, as also the future climate and well-being, and there must be concern as to depleatable resources. Since automobiles must be built, have fuel and be driven, and other consumer goods and services must similarly be supplied and utilized, a compromise between the current financial and long-term public interests in essential and inevitable. As a broad rule, however, this compromise must favor the larger community interest and the interest of those to come. That is because the business and political voice and money are allied with the current economic power – with the firms that produce the goods and services, their lobbies and captive or susceptible politicians. The community and the longer public future draw on less specific support.””
~There you have it, Janice. No wonder the initials for your party are C.R.A.P.
We will now return you to our regular programming .
Pretty hard to see why Harper would bother signing on to help the Libs market their plan.
Then there’s the issue of whether the “debate” shouldn’t be open to Jack, Gilles and Elizabeth; they’re no more less important than Dion.
The issue is also one of what about this actually requires a “debate”; essentially it was the Liberals offering up a new “plan” on something. Should we have a debate every time one of the parties tossing something out?
BY BONNIE N BC ON 07.04.08 2:10 PM
Hi Bonnie,
I suppose there’ll be a large crowd, but I do hope we get to at least shake hands and thank him, and if possible, will ask.
Maybe someone could explain to me exactly what a “new” Conservative is—I seem to be at a loss.
I was a member of the old Progressive Conservative brand for over 3 decades & that party has ideals that were in no way similar to what the “new” Conservatives profess.
A party that calls Charles McVety friend & advisor scares the living hell out of me.
A party that ignores the fate of hundreds of thousands of trust investors & has yet to give us the facts behind this decision leaves me to wonder about the sanity of those who voted for them—& I am one.
A party that has Jim Flaherty as finance Minister , yes that`s the same Jim Flaherty who left Ontario with a nearly 6 billion dollar deficit ,makes me wonder about the quality of leadership at the top.
A party that won`t debate Mr Dion who they have branded a loser & a weakling makes me think they have no policy legs to stand on.
It appears to me that the term “new” Conservative was just a ruse to pick-up the old Progressive Conservative vote.
A deception like that only works once.
I won`t make the same mistake again & I am damn sure they are a lot of others who feel the same.
Dr Mike Popovich–former life-long Conservative.
OT
Good old Charles McVety is still at it. Now he heads a group that wants Morgentaler’s Order of Canada revoked.
Those neocons sure hate women in my opinion. A patriarchal religion wants to control everyone especially the women who are to obey Father God or risk damnation. Thankfully I escaped the fundamentalists control years ago.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/04/morgentaler-order.html
I am grateful to Dr. Morgentaler for fighting for the freedom of women to choose. I saw too many women die 50 years ago from botched abortions. Young women and mothers who had too many children and didn’t want any more.
Dr. Morgentaler is deserving of the Order of Canada. Congratulations
Off topic I know, but I have been travelling a lot…
What Ottawa didn’t tell you about Colombia FTA…
http://www.rabble.ca/in_his_own_words.shtml?x=73071
“Canada, in approving the FTA with Colombia, will have to decide which model of “development” it will promote: development for people, or for transnational corporations?”
I completely missed this. It seems to me that we are following neatly in the foreign policy footsteps of our neighbors to the South.
By John L on 07.04.08 3:38 pm
John, the NDP offered to debate Dion on his ‘plan’ and he refused. Dion has been around long enough to know without asking that a sitting Prime Minister is not going to drop his own plans to enter into a pointless debate when there has been no election called.
I think if Mr. Harper took him up on it, Mr. Dion would run for the hills.
Leasa
Thanks for calling me a loser. It’s because of comments like yours that a losers wants to stay a loser.
In Quebec, the poll suggests Tories lost a 15-point lead with voters who say they’re neither federalist nor separatist – and are now tied with the Liberals.
Funny that the con-bots are more popular when they aren’t sitting .
ROTFLMAO
I hate the — stupid, conservative, anti-gay, prolife, friends of the oil companies, religious freaks — Tories.
He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec.
… do you understand that this stupid statement is about 42% of the Quebec nation ?
Julien Gaudreau, a self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist loser< in Quebec that’ll do everything he can so realise the full independance of Quebec
.
I think if Mr. Harper took him up on it, Mr. Dion would run for the hills.
Leasa
By Leasa on 07.04.08 4:15 pm
Yea, chasing and racing Harpo to the top .
Nice try .
Harpo has no guts . Period .
Liberals that believe in Junk Science are Losers.
By Fred from Calgary on 07.04.08 2:05 pm
Remember when the Church said that Galileo’s earth orbiting the sun theory was junk science?
Or that if one sailed past the horizon, he might fall off the edge of the earth?
Do you still believe these?
But if you’re correct and the science of global warming is junk, does it still make sense to continue dumping crap into the atmosphere?
Do I still hear denyers of the causes of acid rain (pollution mixing with rain) or smog (pollution interacting with sunlight?) The important word there is “pollution.” CO2 is just another chemical being dumped into the air.
What happened to Harper’s Clean Air Act, Fred?
I’m a proud separatist looser that have only one thing to tell you in one of the two official language : L’homogénéité est un obstacle au développement des consciences … English Canada and the US is a very homogenous anglophone world… and that is just isn’t helping you to really open your mind… why bother undertanding if you all think the same…
No link to Rutherford ?
I wonder who should be called a loser. A Quebec separatist or a party leader too afraid of losing the elections to bring down the government ?
There is nothing to be proud of, Mr. Turner…
Is it just me or are there a lot more con-bot,sock-puppets on this site ?
Understandable as Canadians are embracing the Liberal ‘Green Plan ‘ en masse .
Obviously they have no idea of how stupid their comments are .
Good post: “Theft by Conversion” per Men With Hats On? This partially explains the unreasonable unjustifiable increases in the price of oil. This shows that there is an economic distortion in the trading values in the markets. When this bubble bursts there will be losses far in excess of what has been lost todate in the real estate market. Also of great consequence will be the survival of both Gen. Mtrs. and Chrysler. If either or both go bankrupt, the financial earthquake may well signal the next great depression.
Now whether our politicians debate and when/where is a matter of timing. Just as the votes in the HoC, to abstain is a legitimate statement of position, like it or not. Just as in business the statement “Location, location, location”, it is “Timing is everything” applies in politics, as Joe Clarke found out.
Now, if it is not the time for an election and debates, it is a time to be getting one’s house in order for when the debating will begin. This will probably involve situations and conditions as yet not in the eyes of the camera or the ears of the microphones. At the rate of business closures and failures in Ontario and Quebec plus sudden reversals of economic data ratings, the climate for debate will be significantly different than it is now. Add to that scene the Mulroney/Schreiber Inquiry, the unexpected revelations in Mme. Couillard’s autobiog., the results of the PM’s lawsuit attempt, Linda Keen’s unjust dismissal lawsuit, and other inquiries demanded but not yet set up, there will be a different political context than now during vacation time.
For anyone to predict the out comes and the mood of the nation in just 4 or 5 months is foolish speculation. Just a 5% increase in unemployment numbers alone will shift the attitudes of prospective voters. If Harper wanted to have a vote he had the power and oppportunity to go to the GG for an election writ regardless of what Dion et al think or want. The repeated polling tells it all, when again there is a 3 way split this week giving no one a minority hint never mind a majority. Until the pollsters get a solid shift, don’t expect anything other than more of the same!
By Greg W. Oakville on 07.04.08 2:30 pm
Another very solid site on the subject. The difference is that you’ll have to read this one.
The cold truth about climate change
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/27/global_warming_deniers/
(And be sure to get past the first paragraph that is used to bait those with other points of view.)
Bravo! Enfin un raciste canadien-anglais qui s’affirme. Avez-vous songé à recruter quelques skinheads néonazis pour vous épauler dans votre croisade?
Charles McVety appears to be mostly a creation of the media. Who does he actually speak for?
Yours comments on both Alberta and Québec separatists show that you don’t know anything about them.
Labeling people as “losers” does not prove anything, especially how wrong they would be, except that you like to provide ad hominen attacks instead of arguments.
I don’t like Dion at all, but I’ll give him something: he doesn’t fall to your level.
Some backbencher at Parliament who doesn’t speak French but yet, labels between 30-50% of people in Quebec as losers, despite knowing nothing about them is not going to convince many people of the validity of his point.
To Rhino and Jimmy Cactus: good points.
I completely missed this. It seems to me that we are following neatly in the foreign policy footsteps of our neighbors to the South.
By Brammer on 07.04.08 4:05 pm
But, of course…
Bush has been telling Harpo what to do for years now…
By Leasa on 07.04.08 4:15 pm
From Kim Campbell’s election campaign:
During the election campaign, she stated that discussing a complete overhaul of Canada’s social policies in all their complexities could not be done in just 47 days (the time allotted to an election campaign). However, a reporter truncated this comment to “an election is no time to discuss serious issues.” (Cited from Wiki)
Election campaigns are about 30 second sound bites, mostly used to trash the opponent. I humbly submit that Ms. Campbell was right in her assessment.
It is a damn shame that there is not a way to pursue an honest debate on the merits of a policy as important as dealing with GHG, pollution, and environmental devastation.
Wouldn’t it be terrific if the competing political parties were prepared to debate their respective policies while on their extended summer vacations?
Instead, we get a lot of trash talking, and that’s the basis on which voters are expected to make a decision.
Were René Lévesque, Bernard Landry, Jacques Parizeau, Lucien Bouchard, Pierre-Marc Johnson, Pauline Marois, Gilles Duceppe, Camille Laurin, and a lot of other of the greatest Quebec politicians losers and self-centered? I don’t think so… Is having different ideas, hopes, thinking is a crime for you? as a politician, you should learn to debate with respect and intelligence. You should learn your history, learn about yourself and about those who think differently and have a respectful debate. We live in a free, civilized society. And you are a huge shame for your country and those your represent.
«He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec.»
I don’t get the macho… And I don’t get the rest either. To me, it seems like a big insults fest non-sense talk of a man that may be too intimidated by those “losers”. I’ve been told insults are, in fact, langage of losers per say. Well well…
And, I hope you’ll think more about this in the future : don’t start over a batlle about this because with the incorrect behavior of your party during 1995 referendum and all the things they pulled out to change the issue of it, I’m sure it would not be really bright of you to make this emerge all again in the media. It might become a bit like the big scandal that cause the drop of popularity of the liberal party (Gomery and stuff, you know?)
IF in fact were that selfish, maybe it would be better if we leave you and your beloved Canada alone. Seperate ways are sometimes better ways, well… seperate… I really mean independant ways.
Speaking of losers, you’re in it, up to here, Mr. Turner.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080704/CPMONDE/80704174/6488/CPACTUALITES
Maybe it’s time you have a brew with Pierre Pettigrew.
I say bravo to you. This is a free country and you are allowed to express your opinions. Keep it coming.
Hi Janice on 07.04.08 2:53 pm,
‘World peace. Whats yours?’
Yes, war is such a waste of so much.
Stopping the worst effect of man-made Global Climate Change, would help with the World peace thing, as well as
Getting everyone ready for peak-oil, I think it is a good idea too.
Are you ready?
I can’t do it on my own, I’m just trying to do my bit to get the information out to we the people, hoping to help get the ball rolling in time. So we can all have clean water to drink, good food to eat, a nice climate control roof over everyone head, figure out some of natures mysteries and figure out how to use them for good, have a bit of fun and adventure from time to time, for use all now and generation to come, I hope.
Most of the people in the corporate mass media have families and are smart enough to figure stuff out if they are also informed.
The question big is will the that care do what there are able to get the required information out to the masses in time to make the required changes?
We are going to have to make some choices and take action, now. Or else the world peace idea might not come to pass while there are still people to enjoy it on our only planet earth.
This could happen sooner that you might think, if you have been paying attention.
Passivity and inaction is still a choice, be it a bad choice.
Specking of world peace and war,
Have you seen this insightful presentation yet?
(Just something else to think about. They don’t teach this stuff in school because they don’t really want you to find out.)
‘Robert Newman’s History of Oil’ ~45min in total, part 1of9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQhhrzHKMhI&feature=related
If you only can spare 7min, watch/listen to part 9of9 to here the hard plan facts, the truth of what we are facing right now, like it or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC-pbsRfXz0&feature=related
More to think about;
Why The News Media Lies – And How We Can Stop It. (11min)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLGARn7fgHY&feature=related
Don’t forget about PMSH new web controlling bill to take away our right to even find out what is really going on.
And the ‘Treasons’ SPP secretive deal sign by PMSH to ‘Harmonize’ the standard with throws in the US & Mexico, and just a bunch more!!!
PMSH and the Bush gang are best buddies.
Working for their corporate fiends short term interest to maxize profits and ’screw the future of everyone’!
It’s truely ‘insane’!
There not working for your families best long term interests.
Are you well informed?
Are you paying attention?
What kind of world do you and your family want to live in?
What are you going to do to help make the world a better place for evryone to live in?
‘Believe in myth avoid the discomfort of thought.’
Please don’t get to comfortable for your own families and everyone’s best long-term interests.
Excrement de poulet Harper wouldn’t know what to say in a debate.He only deals in hypocracy in trying to lure voters to his CRAP.So according to Steve,quebec City is the most beautiful city in the greatest nation in Canada.I wonder how many Frenchies bought into his bull.The rest of Canada must be the ugly half.with statements like this,he would be annihilated in either language.I hope he has a better statement to describe Calgary when he’s there.The word beautiful can no longer be used to describe any other Canadian city or town from now on,I guess.
Dion can call a debate any time he wants. Just bring the governement down, then he will get his debate. He has had 42 opportunities to do so, why has he not?
Check the facts. I’m just an Eastern idiot, but I beleive a severe drop in world oil prices did more harm than anything Ottawa cooked up. Am I wrong? — Garth
I will agree with you on the first point Garth, but the fact of the is, the government should not be harming its citizens. Sure, world oil prices hurt Alberta, but we expect our governemnts to help us in a time of need, and not to PILE ON.
Agreed, and I was not there. I actually wrote a lot of angry things about the NEP. In Dion’s case, I cannot see the Green Shift being remotely similar. — Garth
Correction. Sorry about that.
‘The question big….’
Should have been;
‘The big question is, will the caring people, in the mass media, do what there are able to do, to get the required information out to the masses in time to make the required changes?’
If not just for everyone sake, then for there own families best long-term future well being!
I always felt sorry for the sandbagging Kim Campbell received on that one. Does anyone really believe anything of any complexity will be seriously considered during an election campaign?
I do enjoy the “reality check” pieces done by some media sources where they take a look at what the various parties are claiming a little more closely. Doesn’t impart much glory on any of them.
Hey Garth,
Tu es un idiot congénital, un imbécile heureux et un raciste qui ne mérite pas d’être réélu. Reste dans ton putain de Canada profond à écrire tes banalités francophobes et continue de pourrir comme la vieille branche que tu es.
“that elitist attitude that sent me back west – where people are less full of their own self-importance – so at least treat Canadians with some respect
BY SPENCER 07.04.08 2:31 AM
Spencer,
I’m an Albertan – and it’s not Mr. G., but rather YOU who is the elitist, spinning for political gain. Your claim of self-importance clearly hangs around your own neck.
You should be ashamed of yourself and your ulterior motives to spread lies, or perhaps you just don’t know.
And now you’ve insulted Ontario’s people with your sneer.
You must be part of the lunatic fringe here in Alberta who are delusional and want to separate. All other Albertans have healthy minds and think for themselves, but we are subject to big oil and corrupt politicians, who have spun political LORE all these years to keep themselves in power.
And as far as the people east and west, we are all the same – I’ve spent decades in both places.
Spencer, you are spewing political hatred to divide Canadians, you are a pawn, and you are harming everyday Canadians by doing so. So shame is your middle name.
Mr. Turner treats Canadians with such a high level of respect, Spencer, that I guess that’s way over your head, because your Con party doesn’t even know the meaning of the word respect. You trolls and your disrespectful behaviours are making Canadians realize that the problem really is Harper.
Canadians can see right through you and your spin artist, elite corporate lobbyist, Harper.
Quebec or Alberta, saparatists are losers, ten times out of ten. — Garth
Over the decades the federal government has destroyed the Atlantic fisheries, authorized increases in raw log exports over the last decade it`s killed many viable mills in BC, sold out Ontario and Quebec manufacturing for votes, shut down Alberta with the NEP the last they were set to prosper. On top of that we`ve two million single parent children that will soon be outnumbered by seniors while attacking them to fix the problems.
The federal government has royally screwed this country for the last generation and at least the next generation and you call those of us strong enough to stand and say change or else as losers.
I don`t think I need add how ridiculous that sounds even coming from you.
It`s even more ridiculous even to think a federal politician, any federal politician cares about anything other than getting elected anyway possible. Waiting for economic conditions to get so bad it`ll give the Liberals an election advantage over calling an election now to save many Cdns from losing their homes is about as low as I`ve ever seen politics go. People won`t be pissed with the Cons, 30 million will be just as pissed at the rest of you gold digging carpetbaggers. Do you really think anyone believes the carbon tax will save the environment and the economy? Here`s a couple of questions no one will answer, gee I wonder why.
Dions carbon tax is revenue neutral so to pay for the massive bureaucracy needed to administer the many complicated parts we either go into deficit or slash government programs in a big way.
The tax payers get the tax breaks caused by rising prices caused by a carbon tax. What about the large population of working and non-working poor? They pay but won`t get a dimes worth of help.
Only the folks that belive anything any federal politician says is a loser, not the ones that stand and tell you`re as full of bull shit as any of them.
You are so offbase, it’s hard to know where to start. But your assertions about a massive new bureaucracy and no assistance for lower-income people are not only false, they are fabricated. Knowing your past posting record, I would have expected better of you. — Garth
Dion can call a debate any time he wants. Just bring the governement down, then he will get his debate. He has had 42 opportunities to do so, why has he not?
By Eric-Vancouver on 07.04.08 5:13 pm
—————-
jEEZ how I tire of this same old whine. Dion did not bring Harper’s Government down because that would be doing exactly what Harper and his ilk, such as you, wanted. You just hate it that the Liberals wouldn’t bring down the Government and put an end to it’s misery and upcoming more misery this summer and fall. When the time is right the Liberals will try and bring down the Government. I say try because I thing as soon as they decide to you will see the BLOQ OR NDP chicken out and prop up the Harper Government until 2009.
From “The Great Canadian Oilpatch” :
” A quarter of a century later, for many Albertans the National Energy Program remains the shorthand phrase for the cause of all the blows the province suffered in the 1970s and 1980s: the alleged theft of billions of dollars in public revenues that should have stayed in Alberta; the collapse of drilling activity as rigs headed south; the loss of jobs and savings; the corporate and personal bankruptcies. Estimates of what the NEP cost Alberta range from $50 billion to $134 billion, which Robert Mansell, University of Calgary dean of economics, calculates as the net withdrawal from the province to the federal treasury and petroleum consumers from 1978 to 1985, as measured in 1990 dollars”
…”Regardless, the NEP and its predecessors had adverse economic consequences, and where they were not the cause of tough economic conditions, they made them worse. The consensus of economists is that the NEP was not economic policy, it was a political document. It “did not result in nor was it primarily intended to produce good economics,” political analysts Bruce Doern and Glen Toner concluded.” The energy policies hit the petroleum industry by the discriminatory measures that discouraged the investment of foreign capital; by the federal-provincial squabbles over revenue that squeezed the industry’s revenues; and by the “Canadianization” measures which wound up bankrupting the Canadian-owned firms they were intended to help”
I’m a french girl. I’m for the independance of Quebec. I don’t understand why I’m macho, me-first and all the insults you use to describe us. Don’t understand. It’s so sad. I don’t hate Canada. I just don’t feel it’s my country
Garth,
fyi, the collapse of oil prices didn’t happen until 1986, well after the NEP had done it’s damage.
Wrong. Check it out. — Garth
Hey Garth, I live in Alberta so am I one of the western based “self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers”? Thanks for the respect.
Are you a separatist? — Garth
Hi Eric-Vancouver on,
‘Dion can call a debate any time he wants. Just bring the governement down, then he will get his debate. He has had 42 opportunities to do so, why has he not?’
By Eric-Vancouver on 07.04.08 5:13 pm
I’m just trying to understand what you are trying to get across?
Do you want a debate?
Would you like people to have a chance to here all about ‘the Green Shift’ plan? And have time to think about it and perhaps make comments about it, or to try and improve it?
Do you think we need to go to the expense of an election just to debate an idea?
Did you want PMSH Government to fall?
Do you like what PMSH & gang of MP have been doing so fare?
Did you think an election would have resulted in a better out come for all Canadian over all?
Do you really think most Canadian wanted to have another election so soon, and were paying attention enough to make an informed choice, to get us all to the best place possible?
No link to Rutherford ?
By Bill D. Cat on 07.04.08 4:32 pm
http://www.am770chqr.com/StationShared/AudioVault.aspx
Bottom left click Audio Vault. Go to July 4 11:00am. Starts at about the 8:00 min mark.
Bravo, vous avez visé juste sur les Québécois. Se sont des loosers from hell, des minables, des caves qui ne savent rien, tout juste bon à demander l’argent du fédéral. Rien ne marche normalement dans cette province, c’est un pays de socialistes communistes, des édentés et des boiteux qui nous fatiguent avec leurs prétendues souveraineté. Ils n’ont aucun pays à recevoir. Ils ont perdu face aux anglais c’est tout : qu’ils aillent au diable avec leur indépendance, ces idiots incapables de penser plus loin que le bout de leur nez. Ce sont eux les vrais racistes, il suffit de voir comment ils traitent leur minorité. Bandes de caves, tout juste bon à manger de la poutine avariée.
He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec.
There you go again Garth. Spitting your rhetoric, insults and trash on Quebec nationalists only to satisfy your self-inflated and self-righteous ego. How about giving it a break for a change? You wanna make a point against the Quebec nationalists? Why don’t you try using intelligent language for a change? You’ll have a better chance at it and you won’t show how utterly stupid you behave when you let the childish rage you feel against those guys get the better of your already very limited judgment.
”He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.”
M. Turner, I used to be one of them and I do not recognize myself in your comments. I changed after I joined the canadian armed forced: travelled through Canada, met people from all the major cities in this country,was told to speak-white by a few idiots but realized one thing: When ordinary citizen breath the same oxygen, there’s no problem.
Please take note: It is a fact the French-Canadian where once 2nd class citizen in this country but it is all over since the seperatist took over the Quebec government in 1976. It was necessary at the the time. It is a waste of my time today
Most of the French-Canandian under 40 yrs old cannot connect with the seperatist but only under one circumstance: when politicians like you get involved with stupid comments like yours above.
There’s no problem between Canadian citizen from both official language (there is a few idiots on both side but natural selection will get rid of them). But there’s a major problem with politicians like you that have not a clue why the seperatist movement was created and why it still exist. If you really hate this country, keep on the same course with debilitating comments like yours.
PS: I believe I saw a few years ago a statistics showing that there’s more seperatist in Alberta than in Quebec. Waiting to see your comments about them in a few years once they start their own party to seperate from Canada. And if both Quebec and Alberta succeed, we could see the birth of a new country calles Queberta (imagine the power of the black and blue gold would give them), thanks to people like you. Thanks to people like you.
Yes, Dion must go to Alberta
BY DUANE W ON 07.04.08 9:00
Duane,
How much were you affected by the World Wide Recession of the 1980s that affected everyone, or did you not notice that everyone else in Canada and around the world were ALL affected by that recession too? And cry-baby, greedy Dwayne, don’t forget to factor in everything else about the times, like the the high interest rates and the big oil greed machine punishing us by pulling out unnecessarily so we lost jobs — it was all for EFFECT — and our Alberta politicians spun that for political gain. Did that work? Oh, yes, come to think of it – now they just spin their magic wand and stay in power for four decades, whilst selling out Alberta. Do you know how much our Heritage Fund could have been? Do you know how much royalties are kept by other oil producing nations? Oh, right, Alberta isn’t a nation yet, and they don’t want to share Canada with Canada, but they do claim to want to hoard all the oil, and damn the fact that Canada has, and will always be there to help them, when the resources run out.
Alberta’s short-sighted greed is not going to be left untouched as some holy subject anymore. Alberta has botched it. The people fell asleep at the wheel, the politicians have been on a joy ride.
Duane, where’s your outrage at the big oil companies who have robbed us without cause, only greed.
Duane, where’s your outrage at the sell-out Alberta politicians who allow all those profits to fly right out of Canada? Sheesh, you blame the east? What a lame bag of lazy, Con artist spin and allusion. Canadians, and now Albertans, are not going to stand for it anymore, so bring it on.
I thought the carbon tax is supposed to change people’s energy consumption habits, but the tax isn’t applied to gasoline but it is applied to heating oil. I know I can change my driving habits but I can’t change my home heating usage, the outside air temperature does it for me. So shouldn’t the tax be on gas and not on heating oil, on something we can at least control?
The supposedly self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers from Quebec are telling you to go fuck yourself, Garth.
Dion is a fwench twit. I wouldn’t waste words with him either. Taking either of you seriously would be an insult to my intelligence.
Canadians believe that the Economy and the Environment (The 2E’s) are top issues with the Economy taking centre stage by almost 70%. Having said, I strongly suggest that the only way to fix the economy is to work like heck on the environment leaving not stones unturned. Slow the world down live cleaner and live longer. Just think if we challenge our youth to provide greener solutions with the same spirit our grandfathers were challenged in manufacturing we will all win. To continue to burn the candles at both ends for big business will get us all an early grave. Your choice, and soon your vote.
So TS r u againist my ideal of removing 3-5 billion oil subsidy?? Yes or no
YES…LET’S IMMEDIATELY REMOVE THE SUBSIDIES FROM THE OIL COMPANIES.
Are you againist the ideal of supporting from both the federal/provincial gov’t for the Zenn Car? Yes or No
YES, LET’S SUPPORT ELECTRIC CARS, ESPECIALLY THOSE LIKE THE ZENN THAT ARE BUILT IN CANADA. AND, LET’S SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT AND MARKET ENTRY OF THE CITYZENN WHICH USES CAPACITOR TECHNOLOGY RATHER THAN BATTERIES, SO THERE WILL BE LESS DOWNSTREAM WASTE DUE TO WORN OUT BATTERIES.
Are you againist the ideal of large tax credits for geothermal/solar systems for individuals/business?? Yes or No
YES, I SUPPORT TAX CREDITS FOR BUSINESS AND INDIVIDUALS TO CONVERT TO GEOTHERMAL AND SOLAR SYSTEMS. THE GREEN SHIFT PLAN SUPPORTS THIS THROUGH THE ACCELERATED CAPITAL COST ALLOWANCE FOR NEW TECHNOLOGY.
Are you aganist the ideal of recycling e-waste TS?? Yes or No
YES, WE SHOULD RECYCLE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE. NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC RAN A VERY INFORMATIVE ARTICLE ON E WASTE WITHIN THE LAST 12 MONTYS. THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES WHERE ARE THIS E-WASTE ENDS UP. THE RECYCLING ETC. IS ACTUALLY DONE THERE, RATHER THAN IN NORTH AMERICA.
Are you againist the ideal of using trains not trucks to move commerce between cities TS ?? yes or No
QUALIFIED YES. IT DEPENDS ON THE COMMODITY TO BE MOVED. SOME ARE TOO FRAGILE TO GO BY TRAIN, OTHERS ARE TOO PERISHABLE TO GO BY TRAIN. A GROWING AMOUNT OF NORTH AMERICAN FREIGHT IS NOW BEING MOVED PIGGYBACK ON FLATDECK RAIL CARS. THIS IS EXPECTED TO INCREASE DRAMATICALLY IN THE FUTURE. MANY TRUCKLOAD CARRIERS HAVE ALREADY MADE THIS MOVE AND MANY MORE ARE LINING UP TO DO SO. MOVING GOODS BY TRAIN DOES MAKE MORE ECONOMIC SENSE. ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS WOULD BE NEEDED TO INCREASE THE CAPACITY OF OUR EXISTING RAIL SYSTEM.
Do you support the use of cataytic converters for small engines to reduce emissions (see my post on the website on this issue)
I WOULD RATHER SEE GAS ENGINES ELIMINATED ON ALL SMALL OUTDOOR APPLIANCES. SEE MY REPLY ON THE NEXT QUESTION.
Better yet buy electric lawnmower …oops I don’t have any facts to prove this – I call it common sense TS– electric lawnmower doesn’t pollute like regualr lawnmowers and if a person has a solar system for the home to recharge the battery for this electric lawnmower then electric lawnmower becomes more green. Ooops I forgot their is no real tax credits (federaly or provincially) for geothermal/solar systems for homeowners/business owner like there is in Europe or the canadian nuclear industry.
I THINK ELECTRIC MOWERS THAT ARE RECHARGED WITH PORTABLE SOLAR PANELS ARE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE AND SHOULD BE SUPPORTED. ACTUALLY A CANADIAN COMPANY, LINAMAR HAS ONE ON THE MARKET TODAY. I BELIEVE YOU CAN BUY THEM AT BIG BOX STORES LIKE HOME DEPOT. THIS TECHNOLOGY COULD REPLACE MOST HOUSEHOLD GARDENING TOOLS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GAS POWERED.
Maybe the Federal liberals should tell Dalton to stop subdizing the nuclear industry ..Use the earmark 25 billion for the nuclear program but instead use the 25 billion for solar/geothermal systems for homeowners/individuals.
THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT MINISTRY OF ENERGY WEB SITE HAS A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ON THE MANY PROGRAMS IT CURRENTLY HAS UNDERWAY TO HELP THE PROVINCE CONVERT TO ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES. WIND AND SOLAR ARE CERTAINLY COMPONENTS OF THAT STRATEGY.
Nuclear program was a complete economic failure . All nuclear reactors except Douglas Point went overbudget or had large maintenance bills (ie Pickering)
40% of Ontario debt is directly related to the nuclear program. Darlington reactors was estimated to cost 2 billion and in the end it cost $15 billion..That 13 billion overbudget. 15 billion is part of the debt that Onatario taxpayers must pay for ..You can also see your electric bill having fees to help pay for it. Is that a fact or is that not a fact to understand TS??
I DISAGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT OF NUCLEAR POWER. ABOUT HALF OF ONTARIO’S POWER COMES FROM NUCLEAR. IN THE NEAR TERM NUCLEAR IS A MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVE THAN COAL FIRED GENERATORS. IN THE LONGER TERM SOLAR AND WIND POWER WILL REPLACE A LARGE PORTION OF THE POWER NEEDS IN ONTARIO. NUCLEAR WILL BE NEEDED FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT 40-50 YEARS. I WOULD NEED TO SEE A COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF NUCLEAR VERSUS GEO/THERMAL BEFORE I COULD OFFER AN OPINION. SOME COUNTRIES LIKE NEW ZEALAND HAVE AN OUTSTANDING GEOTHERMAL GENERATING PROGRAM. UNFORTUNATELY CANADA DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME GEOTHERMAL ADVANTAGES AS NEW ZEALAND IN TERMS OF NATURAL GEOGRAPHY.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM PAYING MY FAIR SHARE TO CONVERT ONTARIO’S ELECTRIC POWER AWAY FROM COAL-FIRED AND INTO NUCLEAR OR SOLAR/WIND.
Hey TS why does dubai and German gov’t provide huge tax credits for individuals and business for alternative energy products? Are u againist this ideal also??
THE GOVERNMENTS OF DUBAI AND GERMANY DO THIS BECAUSE THEY ARE MUCH MORE FORWARD THINKING THAN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST.
YES, I SUPPORT THIS NOTION, AND HAVE POSTED MY SUPPORT OF THIS IN THE PAST.
Remember Garth was once a progressive conservative member for many years ..so do u call him a neocon bubblehead??
NO, GARTH IS ONE OF THE FEW CONSERVATIVES WHO WAS ACTUALLY PROGRESSIVE AND HAS A BRAIN THAT WORKS. MY REFERENCE TO NEOCON BOBBLEHEADS IS SPECIFICALLY TARGETED AT THE ‘TALKING HEADS’ THAT ARE SPOON FED NONSENSE TO POST BY THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.
As a general concept I support the Green shift carbon tax but the only major problem I have is the carbon tax on treatment on farmers. Farmers feed the world/Canadians and in my mind this carbon tax will hurt them after all they use large energy inputs.I don’t feel that the Carbon tax adequately compensate farmers. Farmers are more important then Hockey players or Bay Street Investment Bankers.
THE GREEN SHIFT PLAN HAS ALLOWANCES FOR THE NEEDS OF SPECIAL GROUPS THAT MAY BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED BY PUTTING A PRICE ON CARBON. FARMERS COULD VERY WELL QUALIFY FOR ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE UNDER THAT PART OF THE PLAN.
IT IS MY BELIEF THAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL AND EVERY BUSINESS SHOULD PAY ITS FAIR SHARE IN TERMS OF A PRICE ON CARBON.
You have no ideal TS on what it costs to run a farm. How much fuel does a farmer use each month for a 1000 acre farm?
FUEL CONSUMPTION WOULD BE DEPENDENT ON THE TYPE OF CROPS GROWN AND THE NUMBER OF FIELD PASSES REQUIRED TO CULTIVATE, PLANT, HARVEST ETC. SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS IN SATELLITE GUIDED FARM EQUIPMENT ARE NOW IN PLACE THAT HELP TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF FUEL CONSUMED.
For example fertilizer costs last year was $300 a ton ..this year it costs $1000 a ton..in the future who knows?? so you think farmer costs gone up or down???
A RHETORICAL QUESTION? EVERYONE IS AWARE THAT FARMERS’ COSTS ARE RISING.
It takes roughly 6 gallons of diesel fuel per acre to raise conventional corn, from seedtime through harvest.
It cost $25,200 for fuel. ( $4.20 per gallon for diesel * 6 gallons per acre * 1000 acres = $25,200)
A no-till drill costs $16.04/acre. A self-propelled boom sprayer is $5.39/acre.The fuel consumption is approx 0.044 gallons of diesel fuel/PTO horsepower-hour for most implements. Lubrication costs are assumed to be 10 percent of fuel costs.
Charge rates are $12/hour for unskilled labor and $15/hour for skilled labor. The skilled rate is used for planting, harvesting and spraying.
THANK YOU FOR THE DETAILS. I’M SURE THE OTHER READERS OF THE BLOG WILL FIND THIS VERY INTERESTING. JUST AS I DID.
YOU FAILED TO TALK ABOUT THE REVENUE SIDE OF THE EQUATION THOUGH. WHAT IS THE CURRENT YEILD PER ACRE OF CORN IN ONTARIO AND WHAT IS THE CURRENT PRICE OF THAT PARTICULAR COMMODITY? WHEN ALL VARIALBE PRODUCTION COSTS ARE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AND DEDUCTED FROM CORRESPONDING REVENUES WHAT MARGIN IS LEFT ON A PER ACRE BASIS?
ALSO, IF YOU HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON THE VARIOUS FARM SUBSIDIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN PLACE ON BOTH THE FEDERAL AND PROVINCIAL LEVELS I’M SURE THAT READERS WOULD ALSO LIKE TO BE EDUCATED ON THAT ISSUE AS WELL.
SCOTTY, YOUR POST CONTAINS MANY GOOD IDEAS THAT I AGREE WITH ON A PERSONAL BASIS, AND I’M SURE MANY READERS OF GARTH’S BLOG WOULD ALSO AGREE.
THE MAIN PROBLEM IS THAT THE CURRENT CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT HAS BLOWN OUR NATIONAL SURPLUS ON ILL-ADVISED GST CUTS AND NEEDLESS MILITARY SPENDING. THE RESULT IS THAT THERE IS NO MONEY IN THE TILL FOR WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. PUTTING A PRICE ON CARBON WILL HELP CREATE A FISCAL FRAMEWORK THAT ALLOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO MAKE MANY OF THE INVESTMENTS THAT YOU HAVE NOTED.
PERSONALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE GST DOUBLED TO 10% AND THE MONEY USED TO ACCELERATE OUR NATIONAL MOVEMENT TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE ENERGY SOURCES, HELPING THOSE WHO ARE MOST DISADVANTAGED IN OUR SOCIETY (3.4 MILLION POOR), AND LOWERING PERSONAL INCOME TAXES (AND FARM TAXES) EVEN FURTHER.
SCOTTY, WHEN YOU POST MEANINGFUL DATA IT MOVES YOU FROM THE RANKS OF THE NEOCON BOBBLEHEADS. I’M GLAD THAT I GOT YOU RILED UP ENOUGH TO POST SOME MEANINGFUL SPECIFICS FOR US. I FOUND THIS TO BE A MUCH MORE CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
“I thought the carbon tax is supposed to change people’s energy consumption habits, but the tax isn’t applied to gasoline but it is applied to heating oil. I know I can change my driving habits but I can’t change my home heating usage, the outside air temperature does it for me. So shouldn’t the tax be on gas and not on heating oil, on something we can at least control?
By Fred Williams on 07.04.08 5:55 pm”
As noted in The Green Shift plan, the current Federal excise tax on gasoline is equivalent to $42 per tonne.
Further to Scotty’s impassioned post about the potential of geothermal power in Canada, the following link will take readers to an interesting article on this subject:
http://www.geothermal.org/articles/canada.pdf
“I believe I saw a few years ago a statistics showing that there’s more seperatist in AB than PQ Waiting to see your comments about them in a few years – once they start their own party”
BY YVAN ON 07.04.08 5:51 PM
Yvan,
Newsflash: Alberta already did, it’s run by Stephen Harper and it’s called the Reform Party. Maybe you’ve heard of them.
And no, there’s no real separatists here, except for a small lunatic fringe of ultra-rightwingnuts. The hyperbole only comes from our irresponsible Conservative Politicians who use the threat for political gain, and they lie to the people about everything. Watch Stelmach wink.
You are so offbase, it’s hard to know where to start. But your assertions about a massive new bureaucracy and no assistance for lower-income people are not only false, they are fabricated. Knowing your past posting record, I would have expected better of you. — Garth
The working poor spending most of their income of carbon taxed consumption that pays little or no taxes won`t get taxes back they don`t pay.
Massive bureaucracy is false and fabricated, lol. How much did it cost just to administer the gun registry that had only one function.
The `massive` screwups from BC to NL and Ontario and Quebec that has screwed over Cdns for the last generation wasn`t labled as false and fabricated.
For those that asked why Harpers do nothing plan is better than Dions green tax shift plan, the less the government does the less screwed up it`ll get. Forty years of evidence proves that point.
How sad is that, the more the government does for the people the worse off they are.
So the evidence is that the Liberal plan will shift a massive amount of money out of a certain part of the country and redeploy it elsewhere?
Surely there are components buried somewhere in the plan to offset?!
Has anything been done to offer compensation, any whatsoever, to the provinces hit hardest by this; presumably they’re Canadian citizens just like the rest of us.
BY LAURIANNE 07.04.08 5:56 PM
Laurianne,
You are saying you are a Separatist?
You hate Canada and you hate Canadians, and you hate this great country, and yet you you expect loyal Canadians to have any respect for your vulgar comment? Many of my roots were in Quebec 200 years ago, my brothers and sister were born there, and I proudly say that I do not respect anyone who would split my country apart.
Further to Scotty’s post about the potential of geothermal energy in Canada I did a bit of research.
The following link will take readers to an interesting overview of this potential power source:
http://www.pollutionprobe.org/whatwedo/GPW/montreal/presentations/macleod.pdf
On page 9 of the PDF you will find a world map showing the areas of the globe that are suited to geothermal power generation. Unfortunately for Canada, only the province of British Columbia has geothermal potential.
Are you a separatist? — Garth
Are you familiar with the rules of Holes , Garth . If you aren’t , I would suggest you learn them .
WW first, then poetry by Donald Quack Duck . . .
“Things are more like they are now than they have ever been.” — Gerald R. Ford
“There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don’t know we don’t know.” — Donald Rumsfeld
Notice the striking similarities — both were said by males, come from the US govt. and neither makes any sense at all!
****************************************
therawstory.com had a report last night, which said that since dubya’s first G8 summit, the US greenback has lost 41% of its value which, in turn, has pushed up the prices of everything else, as most goods are priced in US dollars.
This is a very short time — eight years — for the greenback to lose so much; it is quite possible that in another decade or less, our combined economies will have gone for good, and there will be a new system in place.
The Libs. had a majority back then, and Canada was sailing along quite nicely; then came the 9-11 bump in the road, and that gave dubya the excuse he needed to declare war on almost everyone else.
Now harpo, under directives from carney and DC, is taking us down that same road.
All empires, tyrannical dictators and the like run their course, though — what is here now will draw to a close, and the power will shift to Asia and the Far East.
****************************************
CP report says that two major natural gas fields have been discovered near Fort St. John, in the north east part of BC — there is also plenty of oil around Fort St. John and Fort Nelson, as well.
When Fort BigMac in Alta. has been sucked dry of everything, all the US + Cdn. companies will be rushing to develop further junk, instead of focussing on and developing new technologies, to make life a little better for all.
Could be close to the “turn off, tune out and say ‘Pasta La Whiskas” time!
Waiting to see your comments about them in a few years once they start their own party to seperate from Canada.
By Yvan on 07.04.08 5:51 pm
There are already several organizations ready to take western separation to the people. Thousands of door knockers ready to physically spread the word about how dysfunctional our elected federal government is.
Here`s a few thousand just from one group alone that have joined up over the last several years.
You`ll note that without media involvement this collected a thousand names in only two weeks in Saskatchewan alone. That leaves Manitoba, Alberta, BC and the north of which were well organized.
With a good push we can enlist tens of thousands of disenfranchised fathers and their separated children, we`re ready to knock on doors.
When I asked my daughter about choosing a name she said, “if we split the country we can split the name, we`ll be Cana they can be Da
You might note this took place at the exact time international investors and jobs started leaving Ontario, lol, wake up that`s a clue.
——————–
NATIONAL POST
April 29, 2002
“Justice Minister ready to drop custody reform”
Cauchon ‘not convinced’: Government blasted as ‘incapable of making a
decision’
By Janice Tibbetts – Southam News
The matter could end up in court.
Blaine Collins, president of the Saskatchewan branch of the National Shared Parenting Association, said in February more than 1,000 people had been recruited to launch a class-action lawsuit against the government in anticipation of the Liberals reneging on a promise to change custody and access laws.
Dear:
Redneck,brain addled,Neandethal Albertans .
Guess who shut down the NEP ?
That’s right Jean Chretien .
Work with that bozos and quit your whining no pnw gives a rats fat ass how you cetins feel about anything .
Mulroney did not eliminate the last vestiges of the program until two and a half years later at which time world oil prices had dropped below pre-1980s levels (as adjusted for inflation – see figure Long-Term Oil Prices, 1861-2006). This was a contributing factor to the creation of western Canada’s Reform Party of Canada.
So there you have it . Mulroney kept the program alive for almost three years.
Now STFU losers !
By Men With Hats on 07.04.08 2:36 pm
The first NEP was cancelled in 1986! Trudeau and Mulroney were the reasons why the Reform Party was created!
Trudeau and Mulroney were the main reasons that the West and Quebec have strong seperatists movements!
It looks like Stephane Dion is well on the way to stir the seperatists feelings.
Je propose qu’on porte plainte contre ce raciste fini et qu’on se débarrasse de cette vieille ordure…
@E.S.: Apprends donc à faire la différence entre socialisme et communisme avant d’écrire n’importe quoi. Et si t’aimes pas ça ici, sacre ton camp maudit anglophone de mes deux! Dehors toutes les pourritures dans ton genre!
Garth, got your gig on Adler today.
http://www.am770chqr.com/StationShared/AudioVault.aspx
1:00 PM timeframe.
So I must commend you on at least admitting that the 15 Billion in tax cuts and social benefits promised in the Green Shaft may be rescinded IF Carbon Tax revenues were to decrease, should Carbon Dioxide emissions descrease.
So then, the next question I believe you and Stephane Dion should answer truthfully. When the benefits programs are up and running, how much will it cost Canadians to shut them down.
BY RANDY ON 07.04.08 5:43 PM
Randy , please , step away from the crack pipe .
I thought the carbon tax is supposed to change people’s energy consumption habits, but the tax isn’t applied to gasoline but it is applied to heating oil. I know I can change my driving habits but I can’t change my home heating usage, the outside air temperature does it for me. So shouldn’t the tax be on gas and not on heating oil, on something we can at least control?
By Fred Williams on 07.04.08 5:55 pm
Firstly, Dion’s plan is a “shift” not a tax. Why can’t people get that through their heads?
You can change your home heating usage if you keep your thermostat at 72 F. I keep mine at 68 and wear a sweater as I am a senior. Have been doing that for the past five years. If the price goes up enough, as I am on a limited income, I might have to wear 2 sweaters and lower the thermostat even more.
Besides, the Green SHift plan is going to give you income tax refunds to neutralize the costs. I am willing to sacrifice myself a little for a better future for my children and grandchildren.
I’m a french girl. I’m for the independance of Quebec. I don’t understand why I’m macho, me-first and all the insults you use to describe us. Don’t understand. It’s so sad. I don’t hate Canada. I just don’t feel it’s my country
By Myriam on 07.04.08 5:45 pm
Myriam, I am french too. My grandmother was born in Quebec. I have many relatives in Quebec. I have roots there. I have never lived in Quebec but I do feel this is my conntry & that includes Quebec.
Regards,
the idea that two politicians should debate climate change is stupid beyond belief.
how about climate scientists debating the topic?
this is what politics has come to.
if there was a debate among scientists it would probably be rigged so that we would all buy into the carbon dioxide tax.
NEP Part 1(a) for sweet JANICE [thanks Esther, I’ll try to post it again]
“Check out a world oil price chart, and layer it over Calgary home prices.
Then come back. — Garth
BY JANICE ON 07.04.08 10:48 AM
~Janice, I’m SO glad you took the bait to think you could talk about NEP and so glad to see you warped the story once again, when you deleted many of “the facts” from your lame story.
Funny enough, this is the item that Harper as a young man fell for as well.. the one that warped his mind. He probably even believes his own lies. Now we’ll get it on the table for everyone to get it all straight.
I’ll include a couple of lines you conveniently left out:
“Alberta Premier Peter Lougheed stopped development on several oil sands projects. Given that oil sands production was not yet technologically or economically feasible, the gesture was largely symbolic. He went on national television to announce that oil shipments to the rest of Canada would be cut”
Largely symbolic, yet Alberta politicians feint. Get them some water.
Janice, you also left out the most important part of your quote:
“The economic effect of the program is debated.”
Janice, you DELIBERATELY left that line out, and it should have been right in the middle. You cherry-picked. So you’ve been CAUGHT again.
“After it was implemented, Canada, along with all of the economies of Europe — and the economy of the United States, fell into a worldwide recession.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_1980s_recession
“It would turn out to be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.””
And Janice, I know you thought it was great to include that part about Norway, so I didn’t repeat it above, but I will next, so we can take a clear look, since you don’t know what you’re talking about:
Please see NEP – Part 1 (b) Norway, because Janice included Norway to “bolster” that they did okay while poor old Alberta…
Harry S is there not a Conservative MP’s weblog you can comment on. Oh I forgot they are not allowed to have one.
He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.
YOU are the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing loser. I love Canada, it is people like you who are risking it for personal gain.
Harper, Dion- not much of a difference.
Remember Bush’s ethanol disaster. Dion couldn’t learn anything from it:
“Last month, the federal Conservative government, with the help of Liberal Party support, pushed through a bill that forces retail gas pumps to contain at least 5% ethanol by 2010. Also, the government has pledged $2.2-billion in multi-year federal support for ethanol-fuel production.”
http://www.financialpost.com/trading_desk/energy/story.html?id=632561
Who do you think you are to call me all those word…((He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec). You are the perfect gasoline for us (anyway if you dont understand that movement while saying stuff like that… that means only one thing, your not intellient enough to so the job youve been elected to do. You can go on like that anyway your just going to help the movement… So be my guest actually proving me right to be a separatiste…
Salut le racisite de GARTH….
et les autres racistes de petit canadien. Je suis Québécois et fier de mon PAYS le QUÉBEC. Sans nous (le Quebec)le canada est rien…vous avez que le passeport canadien qui vous qui vous différencient des américains. Au mois eux les autres cons d’amerloc ont obtenue leur indépendance, tandis que les petits canadiens anglais ce sont tournés vers la reine et le régime de colons anglais. a mes yeux vous êtes que le plus gros êtats des êtats-unis de l’oncle Sam. Gang de tarrés, racisites et xénophobe que vous êtes .
un jour viendra oficel que nous aurons notre propre passeport Québécois.
Garth je suis certain que vous aurez votre indépendance en Alberta avant le Québec, alors arrêter de vomir sur les séparatistes du Québec, car nous savons très bien que vous allez la faire. je crache sur vous et je pisse & je chie sur la tombe de votre idole Lord Durham
Le Patriote.
j’étais d’accord avec vous jusqu’à ce que je lise le dernier paragraphe. Même si je me considère un séparatiste et nationaliste, je peux avoir envie de voir des changements au sein du pays dans lequel je n’ai pas le choix de vivre. Mais des commentaires comme ceux que je viens de lire me donne encore plus de raisons de vouloir quitter ce pays qui essaye, sans succès, depuis plus de 400 ans d’assimiler les québécois.
Hostile: À voir comment nos revendications et identité sont traité, la chose n’est pas surprenante.
Me-First: Charité bien ordonner commence par soit même.
Greedy: Le Québec a suffisamment payé pour les provinces pauvres.
Macho: Revoyez vos sources; les femmes vous le diront les québécois ne sont plus macho; à leur désarrois.
Selfish: excepter par le R.O.C. le Québec est considéré ouvert sur le monde et les différences.
balkanizing: Nous ne sommes pas ceux qui ont déclarer les mesures de guerre. Le Québec a toujours voulu débattre ses différents dans le dialogue et surtout dans la paie et la FRANCHISE.
And it’s not beacause I’m unable to translate this texte that it’s only in french. If your honorable in any way you sould be able to read/write/talk in both official language or at least have someone pay to do it for you…
Oh! and by the way it’s usualy the the scare and ignorants who undermine other to bost themselves.
Vive le Québec libre. Vive le Québec pays!
The supposedly self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers from Quebec are telling you to go fuck yourself, Garth.
By Laurianne on 07.04.08 5:56 pm
If the shoe fits, wear it. I believe Garth was only describing those who were indeed self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers. That does not describe all of the separatists. I am sure a minority of separatists were as Garth described and many more just wanted to separate for their reasons and perceptions and were far from losers. It seems there are a few posters on this blog who make claim to the separatist shoe as described by Garth.
Did anyone ever think that Dion with his intelligence, integrity and compassion is bringing to Canada a new style of governance that might result in many of us having a more positive experience of politicians? It may be that he can inspire members of his party who need it, to value and express their integrity and compassion and vote for the higher good rather than their greed and need for power. I think he has already done that with the members of his team. Dion can see the big picture. Harper could never do that given his dishonesty and absolute need for control and power at all costs as evidenced by the Cadman affair, his relationship with Mulroney, Elections Canada, the negative Dion ads and all the 10%rs we, as taxpayers, paid for and much more. To me, it is important to note that Dion is not a lawyer/Mulroney or a businessman/Martin for a refreshing change. It is quite possible his teaching skills make him a great leader with a style of leading that we haven’t had in our political scene for many years. Stephane Dion is the leader for the times.
Go Garth………..you’re the best thing to happen to the Federal Liberal party since Stephan!!!!!!!! Keep it up!!!!!
Love your pals in ALBERTA and SASKATCHEWAN
Their only solution as I see it is government regulation/control of corporations but I can’t see it happening any time soon as corporations are controlling their governments and until that changes, well… its a matter of time before greed self implodes and self destructs, I think people know this but the size of the scale of which its happening… its overwelming.
By brain on 07.04.08 2:16 pm
On this point I totally agree with you but wouldn’t we be labelled as communists? And by who? The corp elite for sure but most disturbing would be that there are citizens in this country who unknowingly support the corp world and they can be relentless in their namecalling. These sheep will be fleeced right along with the rest of us.
BTW, where did you get the R. Paul
I like the guy, in fact I like him a lot but I don’t agree with all of his opinions. You can probably guess what those may be.
Got to go, off to the rodeo.
The World’s Smallest Political Quiz
http://www.pointatme.com/quiz/
Neat fun!
I’m shocked – I’m a Centrist. It’s a neat thing for sure.
Gilles Duceppe – uh, huh – he was a registered member of the Communist Party, as was Libby Davies, before becoming BLOC and NDP. Hmmm….
Diane Ablonczy, American born, was an active member of the Western Canada Concepts group – active in trying to separate Man/Sask/Alta/BC and NWT from Canada and yet she sits in our government.
My husband works for a major banker/broker firm – you’d be shocked how many Alberta accounts are Americans – now you know the influence out there and the wanting to become part of the US and the Republican way of thinking.
Quebec wants to separate but they sure don’t mind prostituting themselves – give me, give me – money, money to keep me happy.
Out of curiosity, I e-mailed okhomeseller.com to see how private home and MLS sales were going, and this is the response:
“It’s the ‘classic’ … sales are down and inventory is up … definitely a buyers market. This is true on the MLS and OKHomeseller. Roughly sales are down 20-30% and inventory is up by about the same.
“Properties are still selling but not as ‘briskly’. At the moment there is a general price adjustment happening to the market.”
I suppose that’s not such a bad thing, as things had to level off at some point.
Those who have large mortgages, however will be hurt, as rates may fly north again — especially with the economic downturn.
This comment will probably be deleted, but I just can’t stand those words from you.
” He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. ”
Me-Self ? Hostile ? Macho ? Who the hell are you to judge more than the half of an entire nation just because you dislike them ?
All you wanted is to provoke French Canadians Separatist to make you some free publicity. Let’s face it , you’re such an unknown guy , and the only way you found to make yourself heard and known was to provoke a group of people who never done anything to do. I could easily blame your whole province for that , saying that you’re acting so because you’re Ontarian , but that would be just too easy and I would lower myself to you.
You can’t defy life’s rules. What goes around comes around M. Garth.
Cher Garth,
Je dois t’avouer que je trouve cela vraiement triste que des canadiens vote pour un débile profond dans ton genre. Tes propos ne sont pas digne d’un parlementaire. Vous êtes de la même race que Don Cherry, un pauvre minable.
Mr. Turner; I happened to hear part of the conversation with Mr. Adler this afternoon and was somewhat perplexed as to what was happening. Having read your blog, I have finally figured it out. As it happens I agree with your controversial statement and that comes from a died-in-the-wool-blue-conservative from the heart of Con country in Calgary. I do not think for one minute we should entertain thoughts of breaking up this country and I am prepared to support your efforts to this end. As for your head to head with Mr. Adler, did you really have to provoke him by implying that it was not possible to hear a positive argument for global warming being given ion his show? When you said that, I nearly drove off the road. Controversial you may be sir, and that is just fine with me…I believe you serve our conservative cause well trying to defend the indefensible. As for breaking up the country, well in that regard I do support your position.
Garth Turner est un dinosaure raciste. Rien à ajouter.
Dion wants a debate with the Prime Minister? Get of your hands! Defeat the government and have an election! Debate the issues in an election. Debate all the issues. We all know who the chicken vote abstainers are.
BRAIN!
Awesome reply to some very tough questions that hit at the philosophy of our lives! Until we break all the major issues into their most basic ugly forms we can’t begin to deal with them. It is unfortunate that politics is the only method we have of dealing with these problems. When Garth puts out pablum like citizenship or why won’t someone debate it is lapped up like gravy on Sunday’s roast. When there is a real issue the same people resort to public school displays of not trying to find an answer but where blame lies. Sound like question period in our government?
In order to find answers we have to peel back the layers covering the question like an onion until we reach the core question in the middle which is what those three questions among dozens of others need answering before we can find a way back to civilization.
You are a brave person for answering these questions and I doubt any politician outside of Garth or Dion would be brave enough to honestly answer them at risk of their jobs.
The world has only two paths set out before us. First we can do like the U.S, is now and like leemings follow each other over the cliff until revolution takes over and countries turn Communist, fascist or religious dictatorships like we have throughout our history. Ironically the nation in the worst shape right now is probably the only one with a constitution with the answers to their problems if they choose to look there. The other path is to declare our lifestyles of the last thirty or so years dead and look to the past to see what worked and make sure we are funding enough research into new technology to correct what has never worked well in the past also.
So for what it’s worth here are my answers to those questions.
I agree with you that a bulk of the blame has to fall on the shoulders of the greedy corporations. While everyone is responsible for their own decisions over the last thirty years gonvernmnts and greedy corporations have activly encouraged people to go beyond their means to fuel the orgy of high profits especially in the last decade. If we peel off all those layers of the onion to find the core reason it can be summed up in one word: GREED! If you are old enough to remember back 50 years ago, the prime rate was stable around 5% for many years and before credit cards and automatic tellers banks only made profts on the difference between interest paid and interest on the money they lent out. We all used cash then and if you didn’t have the cash you had to wait until you did. If our parents wanted to borrow money for a car or whatever they had to go begging to the bank manager. Maybe there are lessons from that we can use today?
Today lenders don’t have the restriction of days gone by. Give out as much credit as you can, then package it and sell it to some sucker on the derivatives market. The vast majority of todays credit ends up on this market as far as I know thus making the problem worse because the lender is no longer completly responsible along with the borrower for money on credit. When we removed the brakes on both borrowers and lenders a massive traffic accident was just waiting to happen. I guess the reason no government has shut this market down like it should be is because it would bankrupt most companies.
One solution to my first two questions would be to trash or change the whole credit rating system that no one seems to use today anyway and split credit into secured and unsecured. For unsecured credit like credit cards etc. should be on a lender beware system with a mechanism similar to the one in place now which allows a person in trouble to avoid bankruptcy by pooling debts that can then be recovered by the first lender in my example. in other words the first lender can recover 100% of their loan, the second 25% and the rest are SOL. Just like a bankrupt business any items purchased on the card could be resold and the balance owing paid off in however many years it takes. Most importantly the person going through this process should be blacklisted from ever getting unsecured credit again in their lives. The main thing is to prevent bankruptcy which when multiplied a thousand times just pushes us into a depression.
On the secured side go back 40 years like I pointed out above and make sure we do anything necessary to prevent more than the normal number of forclosures so we don’t put our construction industry out of work and create a depression.
On my third question if you peal back the onion to the center it has two words: Tax System. Also MAYBERHINO hit the nail straight yesterday when he said we need “fair” trade instead of free trade but that is a whole big topic on its own.
Anyway to get this ended thank you for replying with those great thoughts! My favorite song these days is “the times they are a changing” by Bob Dylan because just the title alone sums up our world.
The supposedly self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers from Quebec are telling you to go fuck yourself, Garth.
By Laurianne on 07.04.08 5:56 pm
Wow! What a classy broad !
Dion is a fwench twit. I wouldn’t waste words with him either. Taking either of you seriously would be an insult to my intelligence.
By jim on 07.04.08 5:59 pm
What intelligence ?
By Brammer on 07.04.08 4:48 pm
An excellent link you gave Brammer.
The cold truth about climate change
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/02/27/global_warming_deniers/
Here’s a few that are the latest buzz explaining with simplistic empirical evidence that climate change is very real, is happening very rapidly and we should all be very worried.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/WireStory?id=3984505&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/WireStory?id=3984505&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/WireStory?id=3984505&page=3
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GlobalWarming/WireStory?id=3984505&page=4
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/climatechange/
BTW, where did you get the R. Paul
I like the guy, in fact I like him a lot but I don’t agree with all of his opinions. You can probably guess what those may be.
Got to go, off to the rodeo.
By Ron p on 07.04.08 7:03 pm
Thinking in French, again
The supposedly self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers from Quebec are telling you to go fuck yourself, Garth.
By Laurianne on 07.04.08 5:56 pm
Wow! What a classy broad !
i thought garth was insulting.
i want quebec, alberta, and anyone else else to separate.
who doesn’t want one less layer of government taking them to the cleaners? not for any of the reasons garth stated.
what garth did was build a straw man. a disingenuous tactic used by liars and politicians.
By William Dahl on 07.04.08 8:13 pm
Thanks, William, good thoughts of your own, I’ll expand on it some down the road but for right now, its time for some socializin’! (that, and its real hot out there, lol) Later, William
By slg on 07.04.08 7:06 pm
Turns out I’m a centrist too
Hi Janice on 07.04.08 5:48 pm,
Thanks for the link.
I listened to it from the 8 to 10 min make.
Sounds like lots of spin and some miss information, with an attempt to cause real divisive feelings by the radio host and the CPC MP & the other guy speaking.
At lease Garth’s web blog’s
‘www.garth.ca’ got some free advertising. These guys seem really bright to me, not.
(Do we all really want to have these sorts of uninfored people running our Country and making up laws that can affect us all? You can try and ignore government, but they will affect your live. You all need to pay attention and get involved, or else you will wake up one day and with Your rights and freedoms gone! Maybe even your Country gone, that is if PMSH hasn’t already done it with the SPP deal?)
I recall the QP separatist spinning the truth to get people worked up and on there side to separate, while ignoring the truth about the rest of Canada, like that all food pack aging has both official languages on it. Some Separatist were telling people in rural Quebec that only English is on food package in the rest of Canada, and that they would be able to keep using the Canadian money as currency if they separate from the rest of canada. Just to recall a couple things I remember.
This radio guy spin sound much the same, trying to twist the truth to get people worked up, quiet a divisive why to go. We need to all work together to solve the big problem of climate Heating in time! And we are also facing peak-oil!
Think about it, who would it serve if Canada split up? Maybe PMSH buddy Bush and his corporate controlling men?
You know the same bunch to buy up the energy trust at bargain prices.
‘The Green Shift’ plan is not about ’shafting’ anyone, but a way to try and get to wear we should be, contributing less carbon to the air. Not to killing the tar/oil sands money and job creating thing. But giving the oil and all industry profit driven incentive to implement a cleaner why of getting the stuff and oil out of the tar/oil sand. And encourage everyone to choose to reduce or change there energy sources to ones that put less carbon into the air, not just to feel good, but to improve there bottom lines.
It’s to bad the massage/plan now need to try and get through this kind of B.S. propaganda smoke screen.
I guess Mr. Dion anticipated this from the PMSH gang/camp big corporate oil backers. Nr. Dion new that it would take a bit of time to have the plan really get out to the masses to really think about the whole plan.
Even the people that are just occupied trying to keep their families afloat with rising energy bills that are affect food cost and everything else we do and buy.
There are ways to get oil from the tar/oil sands that release less carbon into the air, but they cost some more to implement. The oil company won’t spend money just to feel good, but if it make sense to spend some now to save/profit more later on.
With peak-oil upon us, (that’s why were into the tar/oil sand now anyway) we are going to keep the tar/oil sand working to produce the oil the world is going to need for sum time.
But if we just keep going, doing the same old, same old way, we are ‘all going to be really screwed’!
It’s really ‘insane’to do nothing!
PMSH non-plan will mean Canada is going to be all out of Natural Gas by 2028!
How do you heat your home and water now?
Were does your food and stuff you need to live came from? Is oil used in the process to get it to you now?
And the way the world is expanding oil usage; the world will run out of oil by 2050-2060!
Are you ready? Have you really thought it through?
How old will you and your family be in 2028 or 2050?
Last year for the fist time the world use 1 cubic mile of oil, as well as all other sources of energy, like coal, gas, hydro, nuclear, etch., to supply the people on our planet will the energy we needed last year alone.
Next year we will need more than a cubic mile of oil just to keep up with world demand.
Do you really think oil will last forever? Why are we into the expensive to extract oil sands now, if there is still lots of cheap oil to be had? Think about it. Find out the stark facts of what we are all facing, and sooner that you might think!
We are running out of time to stop adding to the climate change heating problem very soon, to prevent the really BRUTAL effect from taking over.
And guess what, like it or not the world is quickly using up the remaining large easy to get too oil field around the world, and there is only so much in total! We need to retool how and were the energy we need comes from while we still have some oils to help make it happen.
And they are only guessing that there is oil to be found in the Artic.
And if it is there to be found and is used the climate is going to change to the point that Mankind may not survive at all, and certainly not in the billion.
The truth is out there, but you need to look. (At lease until PMSH new bill gets into law to shut down the web to access unfiltered information.
Have you been paying attention to what PMSH & his gang are up to?)
You need to stop only getting your information from the corporate control mass media.
They aren’t being paid by there masters to tell us what we all really need to know, to make the changes in time, to keep our only world, the only one we’ve got, a place we can still live in and have a nice quality of live for everyone, for ourselves and generation to come. Do you have any kids?
Have you been paying attention?
Are you well informed?
Are you a critical-thinker?
Or you can just give it some thought for yourself, you/we all can think and plan for the future, I hope.
But from what I know and have seen from this PMSH gang they plan very well at all. At lease not for everyones best long term interests.
What kind of world does your family what to try and stay alive in?
We are quickly running out of time to take the needed changes to keep our world a place we can all live in. We need to make good choices for the long term good of everyone,
Hopefully making it at painless as possible, to stop real pain and death later on. I think it’s a good idea to start now. I know we should have started yesterday, but we’re here now, and can’t go back. So lets all get going to get the job done.
No one is going to come and save us from ourselves! No mater what you believe. Death has always been the great equilizer for everyone rich or poor. What are you going to do to help make this a better place to live in for everyone now and into the future?
We all need to pull together to get the job done, or else…
Is your government helping you/us to get ready, and to stop the preventable global disaster caused by our burning of fossil fuels to get energy from, and simple dumping the carbon into the air?
There is a going to be a deady cost to pay if we just keep going on dumping carbon into the air!!!
Hi warren f on 07.04.08 8:36 pm,
Remember you may be able to seperate, but you and we can’t get off our only home earth!
It’s all we’ve got.
Should we be trying to keep from recking it’s ability to sustain our human lives?
NEP – Part 1(b) Norway
Hi Janice, back again. You quoted Norway in your above post, and left out this link. Silly you, because now we can look at Norway, who share and manage their resource wealth to their greatest advantage, unlike Alberta.
“Norway has obtained one of the highest standards of living in the world in part by having a large amount of natural resources compared to the size of the population. The income from natural resources include a significant contribution from petroleum production and the substantial and well-managed income related to this sector.” <– you left that reference out too. You see Janice, not only is Norway not comparable to a province, like Alberta, at least The Kingdom of Norway worked together as ONE, not divided, not hoarding oil revenue in some areas and not sharing with others. Norway shares throughout the land, and they do it for EVERYONE’s futures.
But importantly, they save a whole lot more than Alberta ever has. They work intelligently as one. And Norway doesn’t give away the enormous revenues to foreigners that Alberta does. Alberta politicians are allowing Alberta to be ransacked, and always have, while you quibble and spin. And now what do we have? A few Alberta politicians who participate in the language of divide and conquer, and the oil companies conquered.
Alberta politicians then lamely and dishonestly, for political gain, blame the east. We in Alberta have suffered a load of Conservative political driven spin over the years.
So Janice, I was here, in Alberta. I’ll ask you a second time. Where were you?
The spin on NEP was twisted and baked into a hot potato for political advantage. Most Albertans know that. It was yapped up here by political greed. Remember, the whole world was in a recession.
Janice, you cherry-picked your source and you did not include all the information that was offered.
Kindly refer to NEP – Part II
It seems Stephie has had plenty of opportunity to debate PMSH, in English and French, on national prime time TV, and all he had to do was act upon motions of non-confidence. Lets see there was the budget vote, the crime bill, the immigration bill etc. Each time though he told us how Canadians don’t want a winter election, a spring election, a summer election, a fall election, an election on a Tuesday etc.
Does anyone remember the opening scene of Jaws? I somehow suspect that is how Stephie Dion would end up in a one on one debate with “Mizter Arpurr”.
Incidentally I loved the interview with John Gormley where Stephie told us, through his incoherant babbling, how he had single handedly saved Canada by keeping Saskatchewan in Confederation. My God what a twit!
Harper would destroy Dion in a debate. There are to many people smoking way to much pot in Canada.
Here’s the break down:
self-aggrandizing: Liberals have pioneered the worst form of crass nationalistic self-aggrandizing in the past decades. And I’m sure there’s a warehouse somewhere full of Canadian flags left over from the time they were in power.
hostile: Dion’s Clarity act was one of the most hostile moves against democratic processes in Canadian history.
me-first: Liberals act and think as if they held the one and eternal truth about Canada.
greedy: The Chretien government built a reckless influence network fueled by corruption. It was built as if the Liberals were to run Canada for a century. See: Sponsorship scandal.
macho: The PQ is led by a woman…
selfish: The truth is 90% of Quebeckers don’t care about the ROC. We mind our own business here. And this is politics, of course it’s partisan.
balkanizing: This is a diverse country; running like you did as one big cash cow and shifting down costs to provinces isn’t the best way to unite a country.
losers: You Liberals are the losers, you’ll never get close to a majority, nor to any seats in Quebec outside of Montreal for a very, very long time. Choosing one of the most hated men in Quebec as your leader wasn’t the smartest of moves. Hell, you could have picked someone who could speak English properly. Oh and Turner, I don’t think you’ll ever be a minister, if the Libs ever get back to power.
This kind of language is highly offensive to many Quebeckers, separatist or not, who at least respect each other’s ideas and who believe in democracy to resolve conflict. The Dion-Turner agenda won’t do any good to Canada or help keep Québec inside of it.
Harper would destroy Dion in a debate. There are to many people smoking way to much pot in Canada.
By travis on 07.04.08 10:21 pm
And idiots like you drink far too much blue kool-aide .
Diane Ablonczy, American born, was an active member of the Western Canada Concepts group – active in trying to separate Man/Sask/Alta/BC and NWT from Canada and yet she sits in our government.
My husband works for a major banker/broker firm – you’d be shocked how many Alberta accounts are Americans – now you know the influence out there and the wanting to become part of the US and the Republican way of thinking.
Quebec wants to separate but they sure don’t mind prostituting themselves – give me, give me – money, money to keep me happy.
By slg on 07.04.08 7:06 pm
====================================
If you were old enough, slg, you would know that 25% of the homesteaders in Alberta were from the American West. Most of them settled in the Southern part of the province. Later in the dirty thirties there was another influx of Americans because we had enough rain to grow some grass to feed cattle but it was the price of beef that was too low to make ends meet for many. My Grandfather sold 2 steers in 1932 for $18 and $22 to have enough money to pay the taxes. What he never knew was that there was all that black gold underneath his and the other homesteads!
The waves of immigration can be plotted on the township maps using the original owners names and their ethnicity to a degree! That American rancher preference for Southern Alberta is the main reason that Saskatchewan has such a different character and flavor from Alberta but they are catching up quickly!
Harper would destroy Dion in a debate. There are to many people smoking way to much pot in Canada.
By travis on 07.04.08 10:21 pm
And idiots like you drinking far too much blue kool-aide .
Harper won’t debate Dion because there is no need to debate an idiot. The carbon tax is a non-starter, only a fool would believe it would be useful. When your opponent is running around the country saying “look at what a dummy I am”, why on earth would you debate the fact.
A regressive, fuck the west tax… all in the name of a fantasy problem called global warming. Yup..we need a debate on this one.
You can change your home heating usage if you keep your thermostat at 72 F. I keep mine at 68 and wear a sweater as I am a senior. Have been doing that for the past five years. If the price goes up enough, as I am on a limited income, I might have to wear 2 sweaters and lower the thermostat even more.
Besides, the Green SHift plan is going to give you income tax refunds to neutralize the costs. I am willing to sacrifice myself a little for a better future for my children and grandchildren.
By Bonnie L on 07.04.08 6:32 pm
so Bonnie, I have always had my heat set at 68 or less in the winter – this is for decades! My motto in the winter was “if you are cold, then wear long pants and a sweater”. In the summer, we use our air very sparingly – only on days where the humidex is over 35!
So why do we need to be punished by Stephane Dion’s Carbon Tax?
And if you try to use this puny tax cut argument – it doesn’t wash.
First, Stephane Dion wants to add this 40$ per tonne tax and give us a few hundred dollars per year in tax relief. But, if the Carbon Tax revenues fall (when people start to freeze to death in the winter or the pipes start to burst), the Carbon Tax revenue will diminish. As Garth stated yesterday, the tax relief will dimish. HOWEVER, the 40$ per tonne will stay and we will continue to pay. Doesn’t seem that Stephane Dion cares about anyone but himself.
Hi warren f on 07.04.08 8:36 pm,
Remember you may be able to seperate, but you and we can’t get off our only home earth!
It’s all we’ve got.
Should we be trying to keep from recking it’s ability to sustain our human lives?
By Greg W., Oakville on 07.04.08 9:17 pm
the best, most effective, and a longterm solution would be to control population.
the libs are doing the opposite and at the same time pushing for more government.
that kind of help isn’t needed. it is just plain stupid. harper was right.
i am all for a clean environment, not any gst like cash cows that achieve nothing. dion should just go hug a tree.
i am now considering voting conservative, because there is nothing i hate more than a liar. so what if i hasten armageddon.
Good call Garth. No time at the moment to expand on this further, but housing prices pretty much track the price of oil, both taking a hit at the end of NEP. In fact an overlay would be quite instructive to illustrate the parallel trend.
Oil Prices: Expressed In 2006 Dollars
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Oil_Prices_1861_2006.jpg
Calgary Housing Prices: Expressed In 2007 Dollars
http://calgaryrealestatemarketblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/carrying_costs_for_calgary_house_prices_large.png
By slg on 07.04.08 7:06 pm
Turns out I’m a centrist too
By kpn on 07.04.08 8:47 pm
Although mine indicated “Liberal” which was a surprise (I see myself as Centrist) my score was very close to both Centrist and Libertarian, but in the Liberal quadrant. Would one of you mind posting the description of the Centrist?
Good morning Brain.
Here is an article from last Fri. issue of Kitco on-line. I follow the opinions of their writers although not as the gospel word so to speak but they do make some very compelling points that we should drawn our attention.
“The Fed Admits Defeat
“Whenever a high government official starts calling for more or increased power to regulate/interfere with a “system”, one’s first safe assumption is that the “system” in question is in trouble and that the official asking for increased powers knows it.”
Gold This Week (GTW) – June 20, 2008
In well over thirty years of “real-time” study of economic and financial history and markets, your “Captain” has seldom if ever seen this truism confirmed as quickly as it was over the two days of the week just ended. The ludicrous press release which accompanied the Fed’s decision to do nothing at their June 24-25 meeting has swept aside whatever shreds remained of the Fed’s “credibility”.
The most ludicrous aspect of all is the Fed’s oft stated determination to keep “inflationary expectations” from breaking out. This is utterly hilarious, nearly as hilarious as are the Fed’s preferred measures of price inflation, the CPI and, in particular the “core” CPI. On June 27, the US Commerce Department announced that their latest reading of “core” (minus food and energy costs) inflation had increased 0.1 percent, half the “expected” 0.2 percent. As we said in the current issue of The Privateer, “Is there any American who believes this number?”
Back in February of this year, Mr John Williams of Shadowstats fame was interviewed on CNN. His central point in this interview is that US M3, which the Fed stopped reporting in March 2006, was growing at a rate of more than 15 percent annually. This rate of growth in the “broad money supply” of the US was the fastest since 1971, the year when the US Dollar was divorced from Gold. That was in February, four months ago. It was before the Fed rescued the system by the arranged takeover of Bear Stearns and before they threw themselves wide open to ANY form of debt wastepaper being acceptable as official banking “reserves”. Please remember that properly and usefully defined, inflation is an increase in the total stock of money. The closest measurement of such an increase used to be the M3 statistics in the US. Small wonder that the Fed stopped reporting them more than two years ago.
But the most hilarious part of the Fed’s press release comes at the end: “The Committee will continue to monitor economic and financial developments and will act as needed to promote sustainable economic growth and price stability.” This from an FOMC which, held paralysed in the headlights of an onrushing economic and financial meltdown, chose not to act at all. What can they do? If they raise rates, the crumbling US economy collapses. If they lower rates, prices surge as fast or faster than the Dollar collapses. And the crumbling US economy collapses.
The Fed has destroyed any semblance of sustainable economic growth by destroying its prerequisite, a SOUND money. And as for their mandate to maintain “price stability”, what could be more absurd than the contrast with what is happening to prices inside the US, and everywhere else, right now? Price stability is a chimera anyway, it cannot be maintained and any attempt to maintain it inevitably ends up distorting the entire financial and economic system.
The entire question is preposterous. Did anybody complain to the Fed when the prices of financial assets of all descriptions were rocketing skyward in the late 1990s? Did anybody complain when the prices of computers and electronic goods of all descriptions were plummeting during the same period? Has anybody noticed that it takes about $US 950 today to buy what $100 could buy in the year of your Captain’s birth, 1949? And this measure is done by using the US government’s own official “price inflation” statistics. The real measure is MUCH worse than that.
Public credulity is a powerful thing. It can go on for a very long time, immune from all evidence to the contrary. It cannot, however, be maintained indefinitely. There is a point at which the official version of the situation and the REAL situation that people face every day becomes so contradictory that the credulity breaks down. That is now happening, everywhere. The Fed is desperate to rein in “inflationary expectations”. But they can do nothing about the simple fact that people are no longer merely “expecting” inflation (rising prices). Today, people are LIVING with rising prices, ever more rapidly rising prices.
The fact that the Fed’s credibility is gone is eloquently shown by the market action in the US in the 48 hours since the FOMC announced its decision not to decide. US stock markets have plummetted. For the first time in living memory, US brokerage houses are actually issuing SELL (rather than “buy” or “hold”) recommendations. Commodity prices are ratcheting up again. The US Dollar is on the skids. And Gold (and Silver) have abruptly awakened from a month long slumber.
In the current (late June 2008 – published on June 22) issue of The Privateer, we end the Global Report section like this: “We will know when the US Dollar collides head-on with Gold. Watch for the day when Treasury Secretary Paulson or Fed Chief Bernanke has to answer a qeustion at a press conference about – GOLD.”
Hey people, I only responded to Garth in the only language he knows. I feel insulted by what he said, and there’s no way I would have politely responded to such a gratuitous attack. And no, I don’t feel Canadian nor do I think Quebec belongs in Canada. I don’t hate Canadians. Half of my family lives in Ontario and I love them. But politically, I don’t think we can get along. That’s it. Sorry if some were offended by my comment. Now you know how I felt when I read Garth’s…
Once again, the Liberals,led by that little twit Dijon and Iggy the Puffin, are salivating over the hard earned money of Albertans. Why don’t you produce something of your own instead of dreaming up new schemes for legalized theft. Dijon keeps stepping in the cow-pies whenever he opens his mouth – no wonder he’s scared to go to the Stampede and opted for Redmonton instead. I hope he’s bringing Iggy to do his Puffin job of burying the Lieberal $h!t.
Garth,
My respect for Dion has gone up heaps. Very cool of him to show down the bully in his own neighbourhood.
I, like most Canadians, would like to see a debate between Harper and Dion over climate change. But isn’t going to Happen on Dion’s terms, even if they are gutsy-Harper would never allow it.
Think about it, Harper is allow about optics. Do you think he would ever allow himself to be embarrassed on his own turf? He has everything to lose and nothing to gain; he already owns Alberta voter-wise, he has nothing to prove to them. On the other hand, Dion has everything to prove.
On top of the above, Harper has also spent 4.2 million dollars on ads trying to make Dion look like a dork. He has to protect that investment. Imagine if Dion came out on top…..4.2 mil down the drain.
Very brave of Dion though, imagine, a debate in Conservative Alberta, the province that is skeptical of liberal politicians, especially those with French accents.
Dion has huge balls.
Honestly Garth I don’t know what to think.
I was in Ontario during the NEP and was quite stupid in many matters. I moved out west from Burlington in 1993 and witnessed first hand the devastation caused by the NEP.
Since then, we got our act together and recovered but we’ve only been debt free thanks to a lot of hard work since 2004. Now you ass wipes are looking to cash in again.
I’m quite upset with the corruption the Liberals have shown. I’m also upset with what the Conservatives have done to my income trusts. The greenies and the NDP are idiots that don’t have a clue so really I lack a party to vote for.
If you say we out west are like the Bloc than I say bring it on! If there is a Bloc member out west to vote for in the next election I vote.
I see this “Green Shift” as nothing more than a carbon tax. Things will be “Greener” back east as in the colour of money. Give it 3 months and see what the people in B.C. think about a carbon tax.
The way I see it is Dion is looking to piss off 10 million of us out west to buy the votes of 20 million in the east.
Ask me what I think of the Liberal Agenda and I’ll say “Getting into power even if it means dividing the country”
You are on the wrong side buddy and if you’re ever out of a job again, come out west and do some real work.
Frank
Why don’t they just square off in “”Typical Western Fashion”, Garth.
I propose a gun fight at sundown. Harper will naturally win this, because anyone with any brains knows that Dion’s gun, like his brain shoots blanks.
Now my next question is…..”Whats your excuse?”
Not enough blanks. — Garth
I was in Ontario during the NEP and was quite stupid in many matters. I moved out west from Burlington in 1993 and witnessed first hand the devastation caused by the NEP.
By Frank S. on 07.05.08 12:48 pm
Frank, what the hell are you talking about. I’ve lived in Calgary since ‘79 and I did not see any devastation caused by the NEP. Perhaps you are referring to the North American recession as the cause of all your grief.
Don’t be such an ass wipe yourself.
Harper would destroy Dion in a debate. There are to many people smoking way to much pot in Canada.
By travis on 07.04.08 10:21 pm
I smoke enough pot to make up for about 3 people who do not partake. What was the question again?
Why will Stephane Dion, if he is sincerely interested in debating the ‘Green Shift’; not accept the debate invitation from Elizabeth May, Green Party or Jack Layton, NDP? His refusal to debate the Green Party and/or NDP casts doubt as to Stephane Dion’s political motives for issuing the invitation? I agree with the poster who stated there will be plenty of time for debate between Prime Minister Harper and Stephane Dion during the next election.
here I though debates were for election time and during parliament sessions. Why the hell should Harper debate Dion now. I think the election would be the best time for a debate on Dion’s plan.
So Garth wait just a little longer( this is if the Liberals don’t chicken out again as they have been for the last year) and I am sure you and Dion will get your wish.
Not enough blanks. — Garth
garth, you have tons of blanks and you know it. politicians talk mostly nonsense these days.
all they do is sit around and figure the best way to screw you out of your money (labor).
Garth is right on! As a Scottish born Canadian I ask: “has anyone on this site ever met a Scott who was offended by the Tam wearing thrifty dude on the Canadian Tire money”? Quebec- lighten up!
Garth, you are right about the separatists. Wrong about pretty much everything else. Alberta isn’t anti environment, Alberta is anti liberal.
Self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec?
Sounds about right to me. Except it doesn’t only describe the Quebec brand of separatism. Same goes for Western separatists, Nfld. separatists, the whole lot.
There is nothing in that sentence to apologize or explain away.
On the other hand, I’d like to know why that pompous windbag John Baird is on my TV sticking up for the PQ and BQ.
Garth,
Before you post blogs, please check your English as your vocabulary and sentence structure is still at the elementary school level. Then again, so is your mental abilities.
Face it, if Dion is the next Prime Minister of Canada, he will be the last Prime Minister of Canada. Your green shift program is nothing more than a wealth transfer program. It has nothing to do with the environment.
The Liberal Party of Canada has not changed. It is still the party of division that plays one region of Canada against the other. Your latest policy is just another example of how wide spread this mentality is in your party.
So, in conclusion, just keep up the good job Garth. You can then thank yourself for personally losing many votes for the Liberal Party of Canada. From my point of view, a worthy achievement.
That should be, so “are” your mental abilities. — Garth
“He stood up once to the self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec. I guess he can do it again in Alberta.”
That’s all false. If you want Québec to stay in Canada, why do you put Samuel de Champlain with a “poutine”? To be separatist is a way to think. In 1995, 49% of Québec said “yes”… So if you say that separatist are self-aggrandizing, hostile, me-first, greedy, macho, selfish and balkanizing separatist losers in Quebec, you talk about a lot of people from Québec…
Comme vous pouvez le voir, les Québécois aussi peuvent parler en anglais… Je dis pas que mon texte est parfait, mais nous pouvons aussi penser aux autres. Si on me parle en anglais, je pourrai parler en anglais!
Hey, ami, the poutine screw-up was Harper’s guy in Washington. — Garth
«Macho?» I guess one could make a case for the selfish nature of separation, but macho?
Can anyone explain? It just seems to me like a completely random choice of words – which says a lot about the “quality” of political analysis found in this blog.
It made you pay attention. — Garth
[pic of cowbee harper]
BY MARC ON 07.03.08 10:56 PM
That pic of Harper just cracks me up, too, always has. I remember the day it appeared years back, and I thought, “that’s a keeper!”
“I was in Ontario during the NEP and was quite stupid in many matters. I moved out west from Burlington in 1993 and witnessed first hand the devastation caused by the NEP.
BY FRANK S. ON 07.05.08 12:48 PM”
This fellow has completely fabricated this comment.
I have been in Alberta since the 1970s.
The world wide recession of the early 1980s and the high interest rates prompted by the Federal reserve, that saw rates rise to over 20 percent, the U.S. unemployment and politicies of the U.S. all came to Canada.
All of Canada, the world, not just Alberta.
This fellow has been listening to the political fabrications that the Alberta Conservatives have planted election after election.
I can tell you first hand, after watching every moment of what unfolds in Alberta, the NEP hype is exaggerated beyond all reason. It was also 26 years ago Frank.
Alberta has been held hostage by big oil companies for decades, and the NEP was just one more case where the real culprits, big multi-national foreign oil companies have controlled and basically blackmailed Canada into infighting with ourselves with comments like Frank.
Frank has no clue that the recession here in Alberta was the same as everywhere else. I was here. He was not. Actually he makes a comment like that to sabotage the truth, because his comment is SO made up, and has his dates wrong, so his purpose is spreading a lie, Harper’s lie.
When Harper says “NEP!” think of it this way..
Harper is counting on those greedy, and ignorant enough to vote for him, to believe this hyped up NEP whine. Get over it, Alberta. Norway handled things a lot better than Alberta politicians. Why? Because the Kingdom of Norway treated all areas fairly, and they have kept much more in royalties, instead of infighting and letting the real thieves, big oil, rob us blind. Norway also was smart to keep a lot more money in savings. Alberta premiers have been too chicken or on the take, so we’ve kept far, far less in royalties compared to what we could have.
Alberta has been stupid, and if anyone falls for the Conservatives cry, then Harper was correct when he said he was looking for voters who are uninformed and apathetic. I guess that means we’ll lose Canada altogether, because of greedy people who do not love Canada.
So the Green Shift will save me money. I don’t think so. And it will not save my friends and relatives money either. Friends of mine spent $2000. last winter heating their home with oil. Dion’s plan, if ever implemented, would add another $250. to their heating bill. They are on a fixed income. I already pay $100. a month in Hydro. My hydro bill will go up. My rent will go up because my landlord heats the building with gas. He will be paying more and passing on the costs to the tenants. Unless the liberals can come up with an alternative to heating and lighting our homes, this plan is dead in the water. The so-called tax credits will not help anyone. The fuel companies and hydro expect their money on time, not when the liberals would decide to send out tax refunds and credits. According to the calculator on the liberal website, I would receive a $369. tax credit. My hydro bill is $1200 a year. Do the math.